Crowder & Hayward to HOF

[Dr. Blackheart]

So what I'm reading hear is that standards have changed over time and students now have to do different things in order to get admittance. That's the point that I was making. Marquette may not have gotten more elite, but nationwide the requirements for getting into college have gone up.

I think we agree then that, accounting for the times, MU is in about the same place. 

What they are not is elite and I think MU likes to overly espouse this, which irritates many alums. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Notice any trending with Buzz's scores.........

Projecting (if you may) on Crean's trends to pre-Final 4, what I see in all three coaches is that the APRs were lower when the NCAA success was higher. 

Mike Deane would have had great APRs.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Yup yup

Wait. Billy brought this topic up.  Is he anti-Wojo?

Btw, I am not anti-Wojo. I am dinging the MU Admin.

[Lennys Tap]

Notice any trending with Buzz's scores.........

Notice that they're vastly superior to Crean's and better than Wojo's....


BTW, here are Buzz's scores at VPI:

2014-15    952
2015-16    963
2016-17    970
2017-18    970


avg 963.8

So, also higher than Crean's or Wojo's at MU

[Billy Hoyle]

I notice that that Crean has the lowest two seasons and the lowest average.

Calculation of the APR has been altered since implementation. You can get points back for transfers and for players going pro. Crean didn't have ineligibility issues.  The rate was hurt by Niv (0 for 2 regardless) and Mason. Depending on his GPA, now they would have gotten the retention point back.

It also doesn't take into account graduation. The issue with Crowder was how far he was from graduation upon leaving. Also, a change in the rules allowed players to stay around in the summer and have classes paid for. Buzz's teams annually needed summer classes to get eligible.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think we agree then that, accounting for the times, MU is in about the same place. 

What they are not is elite and I think MU likes to overly espouse this, which irritates many alums.

Top 100-200 out of 4500ish 4 year institutions. We can squabble on definitions but I don't think ellie is too much of a stretch.

And while some alum get irritated about being elite,  there are just as many (I would guess more) that want MU to be more elite.

[Galway Eagle]

I think we agree then that, accounting for the times, MU is in about the same place. 

What they are not is elite and I think MU likes to overly espouse this, which irritates many alums.

Tell that to the PT students. Yes MU as a whole is not elite but there are aspects that are elite

[GooooMarquette]

All true, but have courses and loads also become more difficult?  I am amazed at what is required of high school students now.  They have way more tools then I did, but nevertheless the demands of productivity from them is high

Maybe. But I am also amazed how little many young people know about basic grammar and punctuation, not to mention simple math without the aid of a calculator.

It also seems to vary by school. My daughters were fortunate that they went to very high-quality public schools. In college, classmates used to assume they were valedictorians of some elite private HS...which makes me wonder where some of their college classmates went to high school....

[GooooMarquette]

Tell that to the PT students. Yes MU as a whole is not elite but there are aspects that are elite

This is true of a great many schools. My younger daughter was a Journalism major at Mizzou, which is recognized by many as the top J-school in the country. They also have a decent nursing program, but the rest is so-so at best.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Top 100-200 out of 4500ish 4 year institutions. We can squabble on definitions but I don't think ellie is too much of a stretch.

And while some alum get irritated about being elite,  there are just as many (I would guess more) that want MU to be more elite.

Alums aren't frustrated with the "pursuit of elite", it's the sense that MU feels they have achieved it (which strays from its historical mission, IMO) that bothers many. That's the rub and the low alumni donation contribution rate is a sign of this, perhaps?

Btw, to become elite, MU needs a medical school and all the research funds and endowment that go with it. But, we all have rehashed that here a million times. Not gonna happen.

Any way, interesting digression. Congrats to Jae and Lazar!  Their journeys have inspired many.

[GooooMarquette]

Btw, to become elite, MU needs a medical school and all the research funds and endowment that go with it. But, we all have rehashed that here a million times. Not gonna happen.

Agree that tossing the medical school cost MU a ton of prestige, but a medical school isn't absolutely necessary to reach elite status. Princeton is #1 this year in US News, and doesn't have one.

[Herman Cain]

Alums aren't frustrated with the "pursuit of elite", it's the sense that MU feels they have achieved it (which strays from its historical mission, IMO) that bothers many. That's the rub and the low alumni donation contribution rate is a sign of this, perhaps?

Btw, to become elite, MU needs a medical school and all the research funds and endowment that go with it. But, we all have rehashed that here a million times. Not gonna happen.

Any way, interesting digression. Congrats to Jae and Lazar!  Their journeys have inspired many.

Giving up  the medical school was one of the three great mistakes in Marquette history.

[GooooMarquette]

Giving up  the medical school was one of the three great mistakes in Marquette history.

Not joining the original BE, and giving up Warriors?

[Galway Eagle]

Not joining the original BE, and giving up Warriors?

Not recruiting Kostas and Jeenathan

[We R Final Four]

 Not signing Kostas and letting Brett Nelson get away.

[Cheeks]

Projecting (if you may) on Crean's trends to pre-Final 4, what I see in all three coaches is that the APRs were lower when the NCAA success was higher. 

Mike Deane would have had great APRs.

Crapshoot in the tournament.  2008-09 may have been one of our most talented teams, APR was good, we were injured and lost early in tournament.  Davidson gagged hard for one of our runs when the APR was sliding...our APR didn't make them throw the ball away, shoot terrible free throws, etc....etc, etc

The APR is about academic progress and has nothing to do with success in a one game tournament structure.

[Loose Cannon]

Giving up  the medical school was one of the three great mistakes in Marquette history.

Yep Jumping' and Biting'

[Newsdreams]

Not joining the original BE, and giving up Warriors?

Excellent

[Newsdreams]

Not recruiting Kostas and Jeenathan

Outstanding

[Newsdreams]

Not signing Kostas and letting Brett Nelson get away.

Tremendous

[4everwarriors]

Middle of da rode, aina?

[Lennys Tap]

Davidson gagged hard for one of our runs when the APR was sliding...our APR didn't make them throw the ball away, shoot terrible free throws, etc....etc, etc

Repeating the "Davidson gagged" lie for the 10th (20th, 30th, 40th?) time doesn't make it less a lie. One turnover, one missed free throw down the stretch, their points per possession during our miraculous comeback was actually BETTER than their season average.

Does repeating lies over and over and over again work for you in "real life"?

[Uncle Rico]

Marquette shooting out of their backside for the final :40 was what made the difference, not Davidson gagging. 

Repeating the "Davidson gagged" lie for the 10th (20th, 30th, 40th?) time doesn't make it less a lie. One turnover, one missed free throw down the stretch, their points per possession during our miraculous comeback was actually BETTER than their season average.

Does repeating lies over and over and over again work for you in "real life"?

[Lennys Tap]

Marquette shooting out of their backside for the final :40 was what made the difference, not Davidson gagging.

Of course - we took that game, one of MU's best comebacks ever.

[Cheeks]

Notice that they're vastly superior to Crean's and better than Wojo's....


BTW, here are Buzz's scores at VPI:

2014-15    952
2015-16    963
2016-17    970
2017-18    970


avg 963.8

So, also higher than Crean's or Wojo's at MU

I don't particularly care what VPI does with their student athletes or sluff courses to make it easier for their kids to graduate.  I'm talking apples to apples at the same school, not different schools, different courses, different standards.