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Author Topic: Crowder & Hayward to HOF  (Read 67723 times)

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #75 on: August 17, 2019, 10:45:06 AM »
So what I'm reading hear is that standards have changed over time and students now have to do different things in order to get admittance. That's the point that I was making. Marquette may not have gotten more elite, but nationwide the requirements for getting into college have gone up.

I think we agree then that, accounting for the times, MU is in about the same place. 

What they are not is elite and I think MU likes to overly espouse this, which irritates many alums. 

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #76 on: August 17, 2019, 10:49:30 AM »
Notice any trending with Buzz’s scores.........

Projecting (if you may) on Crean's trends to pre-Final 4, what I see in all three coaches is that the APRs were lower when the NCAA success was higher. 

Mike Deane would have had great APRs.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #77 on: August 17, 2019, 10:53:25 AM »
Yup yup

Wait. Billy brought this topic up.  Is he anti-Wojo?

Btw, I am not anti-Wojo. I am dinging the MU Admin.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #78 on: August 17, 2019, 12:20:49 PM »
Notice any trending with Buzz’s scores.........

Notice that they're vastly superior to Crean's and better than Wojo's....


BTW, here are Buzz's scores at VPI:

2014-15    952
2015-16    963
2016-17    970
2017-18    970


avg 963.8

So, also higher than Crean's or Wojo's at MU
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 12:38:24 PM by Lennys Tap »

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #79 on: August 17, 2019, 12:21:03 PM »
I notice that that Crean has the lowest two seasons and the lowest average.

Calculation of the APR has been altered since implementation. You can get points back for transfers and for players going pro. Crean didn’t have ineligibility issues.  The rate was hurt by Niv (0 for 2 regardless) and Mason. Depending on his GPA, now they would have gotten the retention point back.

It also doesn’t take into account graduation. The issue with Crowder was how far he was from graduation upon leaving. Also, a change in the rules allowed players to stay around in the summer and have classes paid for. Buzz’s teams annually needed summer classes to get eligible.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 12:23:46 PM by Billy Hoyle »
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #80 on: August 17, 2019, 12:22:24 PM »
I think we agree then that, accounting for the times, MU is in about the same place. 

What they are not is elite and I think MU likes to overly espouse this, which irritates many alums.

Top 100-200 out of 4500ish 4 year institutions. We can squabble on definitions but I don't think ellie is too much of a stretch.

And while some alum get irritated about being elite,  there are just as many (I would guess more) that want MU to be more elite.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #81 on: August 17, 2019, 12:28:07 PM »
I think we agree then that, accounting for the times, MU is in about the same place. 

What they are not is elite and I think MU likes to overly espouse this, which irritates many alums.

Tell that to the PT students. Yes MU as a whole is not elite but there are aspects that are elite
Maigh Eo for Sam

GooooMarquette

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #82 on: August 17, 2019, 12:31:24 PM »
All true, but have courses and loads also become more difficult?  I am amazed at what is required of high school students now.  They have way more tools then I did, but nevertheless the demands of productivity from them is high


Maybe. But I am also amazed how little many young people know about basic grammar and punctuation, not to mention simple math without the aid of a calculator.

It also seems to vary by school. My daughters were fortunate that they went to very high-quality public schools. In college, classmates used to assume they were valedictorians of some elite private HS...which makes me wonder where some of their college classmates went to high school....

GooooMarquette

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #83 on: August 17, 2019, 12:37:02 PM »
Tell that to the PT students. Yes MU as a whole is not elite but there are aspects that are elite


This is true of a great many schools. My younger daughter was a Journalism major at Mizzou, which is recognized by many as the top J-school in the country. They also have a decent nursing program, but the rest is so-so at best.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #84 on: August 17, 2019, 12:37:09 PM »
Top 100-200 out of 4500ish 4 year institutions. We can squabble on definitions but I don't think ellie is too much of a stretch.

And while some alum get irritated about being elite,  there are just as many (I would guess more) that want MU to be more elite.

Alums aren't frustrated with the "pursuit of elite", it's the sense that MU feels they have achieved it (which strays from its historical mission, IMO) that bothers many. That's the rub and the low alumni donation contribution rate is a sign of this, perhaps?

Btw, to become elite, MU needs a medical school and all the research funds and endowment that go with it. But, we all have rehashed that here a million times. Not gonna happen.

Any way, interesting digression. Congrats to Jae and Lazar!  Their journeys have inspired many.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 12:39:19 PM by Dr. Blackheart »

GooooMarquette

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #85 on: August 17, 2019, 12:43:18 PM »

Btw, to become elite, MU needs a medical school and all the research funds and endowment that go with it. But, we all have rehashed that here a million times. Not gonna happen.



Agree that tossing the medical school cost MU a ton of prestige, but a medical school isn't absolutely necessary to reach elite status. Princeton is #1 this year in US News, and doesn't have one.

Herman Cain

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #86 on: August 17, 2019, 01:36:08 PM »
Alums aren't frustrated with the "pursuit of elite", it's the sense that MU feels they have achieved it (which strays from its historical mission, IMO) that bothers many. That's the rub and the low alumni donation contribution rate is a sign of this, perhaps?

Btw, to become elite, MU needs a medical school and all the research funds and endowment that go with it. But, we all have rehashed that here a million times. Not gonna happen.

Any way, interesting digression. Congrats to Jae and Lazar!  Their journeys have inspired many.
Giving up  the medical school was one of the three great mistakes in Marquette history.
Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
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GooooMarquette

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #87 on: August 17, 2019, 01:39:07 PM »
Giving up  the medical school was one of the three great mistakes in Marquette history.


Not joining the original BE, and giving up Warriors?

Galway Eagle

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #88 on: August 17, 2019, 01:40:43 PM »

Not joining the original BE, and giving up Warriors?

Not recruiting Kostas and Jeenathan
Maigh Eo for Sam

We R Final Four

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #89 on: August 17, 2019, 03:35:11 PM »
 Not signing Kostas and letting Brett Nelson get away.

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #90 on: August 17, 2019, 04:08:55 PM »
Projecting (if you may) on Crean's trends to pre-Final 4, what I see in all three coaches is that the APRs were lower when the NCAA success was higher. 

Mike Deane would have had great APRs.

Crapshoot in the tournament.  2008-09 may have been one of our most talented teams, APR was good, we were injured and lost early in tournament.  Davidson gagged hard for one of our runs when the APR was sliding...our APR didn’t make them throw the ball away, shoot terrible free throws, etc....etc, etc

The APR is about academic progress and has nothing to do with success in a one game tournament structure.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Loose Cannon

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #91 on: August 17, 2019, 04:23:01 PM »
Giving up  the medical school was one of the three great mistakes in Marquette history.

Yep Jumping' and Biting'
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Newsdreams

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #92 on: August 17, 2019, 04:33:25 PM »

Not joining the original BE, and giving up Warriors?
Excellent
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Newsdreams

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #93 on: August 17, 2019, 04:34:14 PM »
Not recruiting Kostas and Jeenathan

Outstanding
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Newsdreams

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #94 on: August 17, 2019, 04:34:59 PM »
Not signing Kostas and letting Brett Nelson get away.
Tremendous
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 04:36:37 PM by Newsdreams »
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4everwarriors

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #95 on: August 17, 2019, 05:59:10 PM »
Middle of da rode, aina?
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #96 on: August 17, 2019, 06:07:20 PM »
  Davidson gagged hard for one of our runs when the APR was sliding...our APR didn’t make them throw the ball away, shoot terrible free throws, etc....etc, etc


Repeating the "Davidson gagged" lie for the 10th (20th, 30th, 40th?) time doesn't make it less a lie. One turnover, one missed free throw down the stretch, their points per possession during our miraculous comeback was actually BETTER than their season average.

Does repeating lies over and over and over again work for you in "real life"?

Uncle Rico

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #97 on: August 17, 2019, 06:41:06 PM »
Marquette shooting out of their backside for the final :40 was what made the difference, not Davidson gagging. 

Repeating the "Davidson gagged" lie for the 10th (20th, 30th, 40th?) time doesn't make it less a lie. One turnover, one missed free throw down the stretch, their points per possession during our miraculous comeback was actually BETTER than their season average.

Does repeating lies over and over and over again work for you in "real life"?
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #98 on: August 17, 2019, 06:50:40 PM »
Marquette shooting out of their backside for the final :40 was what made the difference, not Davidson gagging.

Of course - we took that game, one of MU's best comebacks ever.

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #99 on: August 17, 2019, 09:50:20 PM »
Notice that they're vastly superior to Crean's and better than Wojo's....


BTW, here are Buzz's scores at VPI:

2014-15    952
2015-16    963
2016-17    970
2017-18    970


avg 963.8

So, also higher than Crean's or Wojo's at MU

I don’t particularly care what VPI does with their student athletes or sluff courses to make it easier for their kids to graduate.  I’m talking apples to apples at the same school, not different schools, different courses, different standards.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

 

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