MU by the numbers

[Cheeks]

In Illinois, high school students are required to take the ACT even if they aren't planning to go to college. A lot of kids don't bother to take the SAT if none of the schools they are applying to require it.

Isn’t it the other way around or did it change again?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-illinois-chooses-sat-met-20160211-story.html%3foutputType=amp

[warriorchick]

Isn’t it the other way around or did it change again?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-illinois-chooses-sat-met-20160211-story.html%3foutputType=amp

It may have changed, but I can tell you that it was the ACT from 2009-2012.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

In Illinois, high school students are required to take the ACT even if they aren't planning to go to college. A lot of kids don't bother to take the SAT if none of the schools they are applying to require it.

In Connecticut all students take the SAT. 
My older daughter took both because she knew she was applying to Midwest schools where the ACT was more common.

[Cheeks]

Looks like SAT for Illinois

https://www.chalkbeat.org/posts/chicago/2018/07/27/act-protests-state-boards-embrace-of-rival-test-provider/

[mu_hilltopper]

In the end, does it really matter, SAT vs. ACT? 

Is there a university out there that would say "Sorry, you didn't take the right test.."? 

[Billy Hoyle]

Minnesotan here .. very few people took the ACT in the mid-80s.   Of my class, it was like 160 took the SAT, and 10 took the ACT. 

I was always curious why certain schools are/were like that .. then people at WI high schools were all about the ACT.

in my midwestern HS, the SAT wasn't even an option. 

Interesting map here. Illinois is the outlier for the midwest and SAT.

https://www.studypoint.com/ed/sat-and-act-test/

[Billy Hoyle]

In the end, does it really matter, SAT vs. ACT? 

Is there a university out there that would say "Sorry, you didn't take the right test.."?

when the SAT was out of 2400, yes. 

Some of the elite schools also require a SAT subject test.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Yes this is the largest first year class in University history.  But it was short of goal and well short of long-range goals set a few years ago.  Also discounted way more than they wanted.  Rumors are that lay-offs or other sorts of RIF will be rolled out shortly.  The University is not in great fiscal health right now.

[jsglow]

Yes this is the largest first year class in University history.  But it was short of goal and well short of long-range goals set a few years ago.  Also discounted way more than they wanted.  Rumors are that lay-offs or other sorts of RIF will be rolled out shortly.  The University is not in great fiscal health right now.

Many thought the long range goals were pie in the sky ridiculous.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Many thought the long range goals were pie in the sky ridiculous.

Problem is they budgeted against them. Deficit financed projects hoping for a pay off down the line. Now it’s time to pay the piper and the bodies aren’t there.  Fund raising hasn’t been great either.  Lovell has to figure this out.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

https://marquettewire.org/4015761/news/breaking-university-lays-off-employees-will-not-fill-certain-vacancies/

As I mentioned earlier, the "record enrollment" stuff was smoke and mirrors.  Lovell can blame demographics all he wants, but he was the one who spearheaded the effort to have expenditures exceed revenues for the past few years in the hopes that it would spur greater enrollment.  It didn't work and the Board needs to be asking questions.

[Cheeks]

https://marquettewire.org/4015761/news/breaking-university-lays-off-employees-will-not-fill-certain-vacancies/

As I mentioned earlier, the "record enrollment" stuff was smoke and mirrors.  Lovell can blame demographics all he wants, but he was the one who spearheaded the effort to have expenditures exceed revenues for the past few years in the hopes that it would spur greater enrollment.  It didn't work and the Board needs to be asking questions.

How do you know?  You don’t.  Can you say with any certainty if the spending would not have happened enrollment would be worse?  Impossible to know.  Are you really suggesting demographics aren’t changing....because they certainly are.

I’m more concerned about the endowment going down this past year, especially with the market where it is at.

[StillAWarrior]

in my midwestern HS, the SAT wasn't even an option. 

Interesting map here. Illinois is the outlier for the midwest and SAT.

https://www.studypoint.com/ed/sat-and-act-test/

I have no idea which states favor which test, but looking at the map you linked...are you in need of a geography refresher, Billy?

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

How do you know?  You don’t.  Can you say with any certainty if the spending would not have happened enrollment would be worse?  Impossible to know.  Are you really suggesting demographics aren’t changing....because they certainly are.

Cheeks, if you went to your boss and said, "I know a great way to increase revenue, but I need an investment of x-amount first," and she said "sure," and the revenue did't come, what would her reaction be?  What if your excuse was "You don't know!  The revenue could have been actually worse!"  Would you even have a job?

Of course the demographics are changing. Everyone has known that for years. It takes awhile for students to reach college age you know.  DESPITE THAT, Lovell sold the Board on this plan.  And it flat out didn't work. It hasn't met HIS OWN projections!

Furthermore, what about the plans that have had to be downsized (AHPRC) or put on the backburner (new business school)?  The fundraising hasn't been there either.  Lovell is on his THIRD fundraising VP in just over TWO years. 

The Board needs to ask questions.  A lot of them.

[Cheeks]

Cheeks, if you went to your boss and said, "I know a great way to increase revenue, but I need an investment of x-amount first," and she said "sure," and the revenue did't come, what would her reaction be?  What if your excuse was "You don't know!  The revenue could have been actually worse!"  Would you even have a job?

Of course the demographics are changing. Everyone has known that for years. It takes awhile for students to reach college age you know.  DESPITE THAT, Lovell sold the Board on this plan.  And it flat out didn't work. It hasn't met HIS OWN projections!

Furthermore, what about the plans that have had to be downsized (AHPRC) or put on the backburner (new business school)?  The fundraising hasn't been there either.  Lovell is on his THIRD fundraising VP in just over TWO years. 

The Board needs to ask questions.  A lot of them.

If I went to my boss and said we can keep the budget the same and we expect we will have a net negative impact on students the next 10 years of X percent, or we can spend some money and stay flat, or expected loss is only 2%....depending on what the cost of the investment is might lead to a yes.


Those decisions are made all the time.  Sometimes you have to spend money to slow the hemorrhage, even if it doesn’t mean net growth but rather results in better than expected net losses.  All comes down the numbers. 

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

If I went to my boss and said we can keep the budget the same and we expect we will have a net negative impact on students the next 10 years of X percent, or we can spend some money and stay flat, or expected loss is only 2%....depending on what the cost of the investment is might lead to a yes.

But that's not what happened at Marquette.  Lovell was touting growth in enrollement.  It's what he has been telling the Trustees, the Alumni Board, etc.

[Cheeks]

But that's not what happened at Marquette.  Lovell was touting growth in enrollement.  It's what he has been telling the Trustees, the Alumni Board, etc.

Thank you.....but let me ask you this, was the growth trajectory immediate?  Down the road?  To what extent?   If he made that promise and it didn't materialize, then that's on the school and their analysis in the business case.  Normally these have long payout curves, so I cannot imagine anyone is ready to call it a failure unless the projection was an immediate huge boost.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Marquette is not achieving the enrollment revenue that they targeted this year.  The goals outlined in Lovell’s plan. This has been a short term failure and could turn into a long term problem.

BTW all of this was told to me weeks ago by someone who works in the administration. The alarm bells have been going off for months when they realized this class was going to fall way short.

The blaming of demographics is just spin.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Marquette is not achieving the enrollment revenue that they targeted this year.  The goals outlined in Lovell’s plan. This has been a short term failure and could turn into a long term problem.

BTW all of this was told to me weeks ago by someone who works in the administration. The alarm bells have been going off for months when they realized this class was going to fall way short.

The blaming of demographics is just spin.

Well I do know one more student who desperately wanted to attend Marquette this upcoming year, but ended up at a rival Big East school instead.  So far so good and she's liking everything so far.
So much for my last 25 years of Admissions and Alumni Club volunteering.

[StillAWarrior]

Well I do know one more student who desperately wanted to attend Marquette this upcoming year, but ended up at a rival Big East school instead.  So far so good and she's liking everything so far.
So much for my last 25 years of Admissions and Alumni Club volunteering.

I've got one at a rival Big East school too.

[Billy Hoyle]

on a positive note, I was trying to talk my friend's son into checking out MU (he'd get tuition remission via exchange) and take him to a basketball game this summer and my buddy said: "he wouldn't get in, too good of a school."

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

on a positive note, I was trying to talk my friend's son into checking out MU (he'd get tuition remission via exchange) and take him to a basketball game this summer and my buddy said: "he wouldn't get in, too good of a school."

Does he know about the 85% acceptance rate?

[mu_hilltopper]

Does he know about the 85% acceptance rate?

One would hope MU would include some Arby's coupons for the other 15%.

[Billy Hoyle]

Does he know about the 85% acceptance rate?

The kid's ACT score is too low per MU's published averages for accepted students.  He would be part of the 15%.

[StillAWarrior]

One would hope MU would include some Arby's coupons for the other 15%.

That would be a fantastic marketing ploy.  Send the people who don't get accepted a "big envelope" with a bunch of Arby's coupons:  "We're sorry you didn't get accepted, but enjoy a Beef & Cheddar on us!"