Things I Don't "Get"

[Coleman]

I honestly don't give a crap about your dental practice or who paid for it.  Let's get back to talking about the issues.

[UWW2MU]

if the company is still in business, they must know what they are doing. if they scaled back their benefits programs, they ceased being cost effective.  i've met a lot of people who have never written a paycheck, much less run a business, claim they know better.  give it a try sometime.  if there are other companies offering similar benefits that your company eliminated, go get it and good luck on ya.  short sighted "bean counters" are usually unemployed "bean counters".

It is a global fortune 500 company that merged with another global fortune 500 company and decided to "align" benefits, which just meant taking the lower benefit of the two companies in every category.  So yes, it is still in business.  However, I hardly consider that a marker of success.  The stock has consistently under performed the market and they have been struggling to meet investor expectations for some time now.

With all due respect, despite your experience running a small ma and pa office, I'm guessing I probably know more about corporate financial strategy of a global conglomerate than you do.  I can tell you, without a doubt, that many of the recent decisions regarding cost cutting and human capital at this company are made with short term stock implications, rather than long term success. 

In addition, this company has a huge problem in turnover rate of employee's with less than 5 and 10 years experience.  Last time I saw the data, their rate has climbed to over 30% higher than companies in similar industries and significantly higher than similar size corporations in the region.  In other words, they have a large number of legacy employees that have great benefits or a lot invested in their job while the rest is largely a revolving door.  This is not a coincidence. 

While the overall situation encompasses a lot more than paternity leave... the general culture shifted over the last decade from being a company known for their excellent benefits to one that is working to match the lowest common denominator.  It's not surprising they struggle with retaining younger savy employees in this tight labor market.


(edited for clarity)

[UWW2MU]

In general, I'd agree with this. I worked in the M&A field for a while and talked with lots of bosses about compensation and benefits. From my experience, there wasn't necessarily a better or worse way to approach this from a corporate perspective, but I will say that management tends to be much more in tune to the value of benefits than most employees would think.

At a personal level, it sucks that there are numbers attached to things like health care and parental leave, but it's a very real and necessary thing for companies to consider. Contrary to general opinion, me experience was that most employers truly wanted to offer as much as possible to employees. I heard many C-suiters talk about wanting to offer the best benefits they could in their area and/or field but struggling to do so given the rising costs.

Regarding the bolded above, in my experience they tend to have an excellent idea of the costs but struggle with the total value proposition.  At best, they tend to look at costs to replace and train a new worker, assign some value to potential institutional knowledge and/or loss of productivity depending on what kind of role it is, and things of that nature.  Mostly, it is guess work that tries to assign a dollar figure and the results vary greatly.

Anyway, I know pretty accurately the cost/benefits of my own situation, and at least in my case it was a good deal for both my employer and myself. 

[JWags85]

In addition, this company has a huge problem in turnover rate of employee's with less than 10 years experience.  In the last decade, their rate has climbed to over 30% higher than companies in similar industries and significantly higher than similar size corporations in the region.  In other words, they have a large number of legacy employees that have great benefits or a lot invested in their job while the rest is largely a revolving door.  This is not a coincidence. 

While the overall situation encompasses a lot more than paternity leave... the general culture shifted over the last decade from being a company known for their excellent benefits to one that is working to match the lowest common denominator.  It's not surprising they struggle with retaining younger savy employees in this tight labor market.

Lot of big companies struggling with this.  I worked at a Fortune 100 CPG.  One of the myriad reasons I left was they were "streamlining" corporate structure.  Basically they wanted less buckets of workers.  So someone at post-MBA management levels like I was would only be 4 "levels" away from the CEO.  Woo, flat corporate structure is great right?!  Until you realize 2 big things.  While there were multiple roles within each bucket, until you graduated to a higher bucket, your comp/bonus was fenced in (as opposed to it graduating higher with each role increase/promotion).  And even more concerning, they restricted management with direct reports to higher buckets.  Again, supposedly more stream lined and efficient, but in reality, as a 30 year old MBA hire, you were 3 promotions and who knows how many years from gaining true management experience.  Good luck applying for jobs at similar companies with no such experience against candidates who had been gaining that.  I haven't looked at the stats, but I imagine the number of people at or around my level leaving in less than 4-5 years had to have jumped.

And to your later point, I'm shocked how many older employers/management haven't come to the realization about the tightness of the labor market and the evolution of professional life cycles and paths.  Less than 5 years ago I spoke at a networking event with a gentleman in his 50s who said he flat out would not hire someone who had more than 2 jobs post college if they were early 30s or younger.  "Young professionals need to learn that loyalty is important, and even more so, will be rewarded."  I couldn't decide if it was more naive or selfish.

[Cheeks]

Lot of big companies struggling with this.  I worked at a Fortune 100 CPG.  One of the myriad reasons I left was they were "streamlining" corporate structure.  Basically they wanted less buckets of workers.  So someone at post-MBA management levels like I was would only be 4 "levels" away from the CEO.  Woo, flat corporate structure is great right?!  Until you realize 2 big things.  While there were multiple roles within each bucket, until you graduated to a higher bucket, your comp/bonus was fenced in (as opposed to it graduating higher with each role increase/promotion).  And even more concerning, they restricted management with direct reports to higher buckets.  Again, supposedly more stream lined and efficient, but in reality, as a 30 year old MBA hire, you were 3 promotions and who knows how many years from gaining true management experience.  Good luck applying for jobs at similar companies with no such experience against candidates who had been gaining that.  I haven't looked at the stats, but I imagine the number of people at or around my level leaving in less than 4-5 years had to have jumped.

And to your later point, I'm shocked how many older employers/management haven't come to the realization about the tightness of the labor market and the evolution of professional life cycles and paths.  Less than 5 years ago I spoke at a networking event with a gentleman in his 50s who said he flat out would not hire someone who had more than 2 jobs post college if they were early 30s or younger.  "Young professionals need to learn that loyalty is important, and even more so, will be rewarded."  I couldn't decide if it was more naive or selfish.

Could be naive, selfish, or realistic.  All are perfectly good answers depending on the situation.  If he/she doesn’t want to hire someone that jumps ship every 2 years, that is their prerogative. 

[rocket surgeon]

It is a global fortune 500 company that merged with another global fortune 500 company and decided to "align" benefits, which just meant taking the lower benefit of the two companies in every category.  So yes, it is still in business.  However, I hardly consider that a marker of success.  The stock has consistently under performed the market and they have been struggling to meet investor expectations for some time now.

With all due respect, despite your experience running a small ma and pa office, I'm guessing I probably know more about corporate financial strategy of a global conglomerate than you do.  I can tell you, without a doubt, that many of the recent decisions regarding cost cutting and human capital at this company are made with short term stock implications, rather than long term success. 

In addition, this company has a huge problem in turnover rate of employee's with less than 5 and 10 years experience.  Last time I saw the data, their rate has climbed to over 30% higher than companies in similar industries and significantly higher than similar size corporations in the region.  In other words, they have a large number of legacy employees that have great benefits or a lot invested in their job while the rest is largely a revolving door.  This is not a coincidence. 

While the overall situation encompasses a lot more than paternity leave... the general culture shifted over the last decade from being a company known for their excellent benefits to one that is working to match the lowest common denominator.  It's not surprising they struggle with retaining younger savy employees in this tight labor market.


(edited for clarity)

 Very well stated and thank you for clarifying

There is no ma, in my pa business

[UWW2MU]

 Very well stated and thank you for clarifying

There is no ma, in my pa business

I got a little chippy after you implied I didn't know what I was talking about.   

But I really did mean with all due respect!

[UWW2MU]

Lot of big companies struggling with this.  I worked at a Fortune 100 CPG.  One of the myriad reasons I left was they were "streamlining" corporate structure.  Basically they wanted less buckets of workers.  So someone at post-MBA management levels like I was would only be 4 "levels" away from the CEO.  Woo, flat corporate structure is great right?!  Until you realize 2 big things.  While there were multiple roles within each bucket, until you graduated to a higher bucket, your comp/bonus was fenced in (as opposed to it graduating higher with each role increase/promotion).  And even more concerning, they restricted management with direct reports to higher buckets.  Again, supposedly more stream lined and efficient, but in reality, as a 30 year old MBA hire, you were 3 promotions and who knows how many years from gaining true management experience.  Good luck applying for jobs at similar companies with no such experience against candidates who had been gaining that.  I haven't looked at the stats, but I imagine the number of people at or around my level leaving in less than 4-5 years had to have jumped.

And to your later point, I'm shocked how many older employers/management haven't come to the realization about the tightness of the labor market and the evolution of professional life cycles and paths.  Less than 5 years ago I spoke at a networking event with a gentleman in his 50s who said he flat out would not hire someone who had more than 2 jobs post college if they were early 30s or younger.  "Young professionals need to learn that loyalty is important, and even more so, will be rewarded."  I couldn't decide if it was more naive or selfish.

Before I write a huge response to your first paragraph, I'm going to stop myself and sum it up as so: I am 100% on the same page as you.

As for the hiring manager, I've got to imagine it is naivety.  The key part is that he added "will be rewarded."  If it was just a matter of him looking for the best and most loyal and he has the compensation package and culture to attract and retain those people, then by all means let him be as confident in that strategy as he wants.  However, if he really thinks loyalty is rewarded, he must be living in a bubble at a small company or a privately held one that bucks the larger trends. 

I sure hope he's never had to layoff any of his employees though.  That'd be worse than being naive, it would make him a hypocrite.  People just don't feel secure in their employment anymore, so many don't feel their employers are owed the same back. 

The only exceptions I found to this are employee, family, or privately owned companies that purposely integrate this loyalty into the culture.  Unfortunately, in my experience anyway, that is a rare situation.

[rocket surgeon]

I got a little chippy after you implied I didn't know what I was talking about.   

But I really did mean with all due respect!

no disrespect taken.  my ma/pa response was meant to be a light-hearted show of humility with respect to the many others here who's life experiences far outweigh those of mine.   your dialogue was very informing and i do respect and very much appreciate not only your response, but a unique civility that some here are lacking.     

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

People that chant overrated at a player. Especially when said player just scored 24 points in 10 minutes.

[Miss Katie’s]

Soccer
Country music
Fancy coffee drinks/Frappuccinos
White Claw
Staying in an Airbnb — when on vacation, I want someone else to clean and cook. 

[JWags85]

Soccer
Country music
Fancy coffee drinks/Frappuccinos
White Claw
Staying in an Airbnb — when on vacation, I want someone else to clean and cook.

Won’t touch Soccer, but couldn’t disagree more on WhiteClaw. And that’s coming from someone who didn’t get it for awhile.

I don’t drink a ton of beer cause it gives me stomach issues if I have a bunch, been that way since college. Really like cider, but that’s a ton of sugar. WhiteClaw is a great alternative to cocktails or other liquor and is very sessionable and refreshing. I don’t really care for sparkling water either, so I can imagine the appeal for people who are big Perrier or La Croix fans

[Chili]

Won’t touch Soccer, but couldn’t disagree more on WhiteClaw. And that’s coming from someone who didn’t get it for awhile.

I don’t drink a ton of beer cause it gives me stomach issues if I have a bunch, been that way since college. Really like cider, but that’s a ton of sugar. WhiteClaw is a great alternative to cocktails or other liquor and is very sessionable and refreshing. I don’t really care for sparkling water either, so I can imagine the appeal for people who are big Perrier or La Croix fans

You're drinking the wrong cider then. We have 3 ciders in our core offerings under 8g of sugar per serving. Brut has 0g, Rose 2g and our flagship Apple has 8g.

https://www.virtuecider.com/products-index

That Angry Orchard and other overly sweet sheet isn't cider.

[checkmarq]

Soccer
Country music
Fancy coffee drinks/Frappuccinos
White Claw
Staying in an Airbnb — when on vacation, I want someone else to clean and cook.

I rent out an Airbnb in MKE. Most guests eat out and don't use anything but the plates and silverware. I've also never had one actively clean up after themselves regardless of how long they stay.

I think you'd be surprised at the accommodations you can get versus the price you'd pay for a similar hotel room

[Pakuni]

I rent out an Airbnb in MKE. Most guests eat out and don't use anything but the plates and silverware. I've also never had one actively clean up after themselves regardless of how long they stay.

I think you'd be surprised at the accommodations you can get versus the price you'd pay for a similar hotel room

For a family trip, Airbnb blows a hotel out of the water. I usually can find a 2+ bedroom in a great location for the same price as a regular room in a good hotel, often with similar amenities. Rented a 2-bed, 2-bath condo on the beach in San Diego this year for less than a standard room at a beachfront hotel. Having separate bedrooms from the kids plus a common area is invaluable.

And I always clean up after myself.

[JWags85]

You're drinking the wrong cider then. We have 3 ciders in our core offerings under 8g of sugar per serving. Brut has 0g, Rose 2g and our flagship Apple has 8g.

https://www.virtuecider.com/products-index

That Angry Orchard and other overly sweet sheet isn't cider.

I understand you’re promoting your brand, but don’t act like the options are Angry Orchard/Woodchuck and then your offerings. Outside of the Brut which sugar free makes me go  , 8g is right in range with a lot of great ciders like Crispin Browns Lane, Seattle, or Strongbow Original Dry which is my favorite. Having 3-4 of those in a night is like having a bag of candy. Definitely something I’ll still do, but just not all the time

[StillAWarrior]

...couldn’t disagree more on WhiteClaw. And that’s coming from someone who didn’t get it for awhile.

I really wanted to “get” WhiteClaw. I generally limit carbs, and was intrigued by this as a low carb alternative to beer. I’ve tried two flavors and didn’t like them at all. And, I really like LaCroix, Perrier, Bubbly, etc.

[Galway Eagle]

I really wanted to “get” WhiteClaw. I generally limit carbs, and was intrigued by this as a low carb alternative to beer. I’ve tried two flavors and didn’t like them at all. And, I really like LaCroix, Perrier, Bubbly, etc.

Same

[warriorchick]

I really wanted to “get” WhiteClaw. I generally limit carbs, and was intrigued by this as a low carb alternative to beer. I’ve tried two flavors and didn’t like them at all. And, I really like LaCroix, Perrier, Bubbly, etc.

I have tried WhiteClaw a couple of times, and I don't even really taste the alcohol.  And I don't get buzzed.  Maybe that's because I have never had more than one at a single sitting.

[Lennys Tap]

I have tried WhiteClaw a couple of times, and I don't even really taste the alcohol.  And I don't get buzzed.  Maybe that's because I have never had more than one at a single sitting.

One? Not much of an effort. I expect more from you, chick!

[Benny B]

I really wanted to “get” WhiteClaw. I generally limit carbs, and was intrigued by this as a low carb alternative to beer. I’ve tried two flavors and didn’t like them at all. And, I really like LaCroix, Perrier, Bubbly, etc.

People who pay a premium to drink low-carb alcoholic beverages. 

The carbs come from the alcohol, i.e. if you’re drinking low-carb whatever, that simply means it has less alcohol.  Save yourself a few bucks and just ask the bartender to water down your drink next time.

Whiteclaw is essentially club soda with a splash of vodka and a drop of flavor extract.  Yet people are paying 8, 9, 10 dollars for this stuff?!?  Yeesh. 

[CreightonWarrior]

Those hard seltzer’s serve their purpose. Perfect during that summer at the pool where you can down a handful and not feel bloated. Not something i drink if I’m just going to have one. Trulys aren’t bad.

[warriorchick]

One? Not much of an effort. I expect more from you, chick!

What can I say, Lenny? I didn't like it enough to order another one.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

People who pay a premium to drink low-carb alcoholic beverages. 

The carbs come from the alcohol, i.e. if you’re drinking low-carb whatever, that simply means it has less alcohol.  Save yourself a few bucks and just ask the bartender to water down your drink next time.

Whiteclaw is essentially club soda with a splash of vodka and a drop of flavor extract.  Yet people are paying 8, 9, 10 dollars for this stuff?!?  Yeesh.

Well, they are 5% alcohol, so about equivalent to a non-craft beer but with far fewer carbs.

But I recommend:
--Pierce a serrano pepper several times
--Steep it in vodka, preferably cool cucumber vodka, for at least 48 hours for a good infusion
--Mix with club soda and a twist of lime.

Much better than a fruity hard seltzer.

[Chili]

I understand you’re promoting your brand, but don’t act like the options are Angry Orchard/Woodchuck and then your offerings. Outside of the Brut which sugar free makes me go  , 8g is right in range with a lot of great ciders like Crispin Browns Lane, Seattle, or Strongbow Original Dry which is my favorite. Having 3-4 of those in a night is like having a bag of candy. Definitely something I’ll still do, but just not all the time

That's because Brut & Rose are the only dry ciders we have in core. Apple is a semi-dry cider at 8g where Strongbow Dry is 10g. Most people don't know what cider categories are.

Seattle, Austin, Stem, Two Towns, et all have better cider. It's just the vast majority of people only know A.O., Crispin, Strongbow, Woodchuck and other sugar bombs.