Quentin Grimes not living up to expectations at KU

[brewcity77]

Come on. The Big 12 has some talent this year, but Kansas will still probably win the league. And that has nothing to do with the last 10-20 years. It's because the team this year is very talented. Sure, they've had a couple games where they started out slow, but I don't know if that makes them overrated. It certainly doesn't mean that every team in their conference is capable of beating them.

Every team in their conference is better than Stanford or NMSU. Stanford was the better team for 40 minutes at Phog Allen & NMSU was right there until the end. If Stanford & NMSU can play even with Kansas, then every Big 12 team certainly can.

[Its DJOver]

That they'll lose conference games? Sure. But in terms of looking vulnerable against inferior competition? Not at all. Duke has handled everyone except Gonzaga comfortably, including teams that are at least decent like Kentucky, San Diego State, Indiana, and Yale. Same goes for Virginia, who had some close margins but were really only in danger of losing once against VCU.

The "Kansas is overrated" logic is because they have looked very unconvincing against weak opponents. Give them the same record but double digit wins against Stanford and NMSU and it would be a different story. The record doesn't raise questions. How they got there certainly does.

I guess I just view basketball as only having two outcomes; winning and losing.  There are three undefeated P6 teams in the top 10, and of those three, only one has a pair of top 10 wins, and therefore should be ranked 1.  When comparing teams with similar records, the committee and AP has consistently ranked quality of win higher than margin of victory.

[PGsHeroes32]

When you say he would have been better off at MU, do you mean because we have better academics? Or do you mean from a development standpoint?

Development imo.

Sure we have Markus as a high usage guy. But we had a clear need at guard for a ball handler. Playing time woulda been there, shots woulda been there for him and with him we'd be really damn good as well.

At KU he's sharing with another 5 Star guard(who some thought was better already), then you have a extremely high usage guy in Lawson whose is the go to guy and then another proven high efficiency big in Azuibuke.

While those guys can help make things easier for him, they also make his role more of just that...a role player.

Again, can't knock the decision at all. I just think he had a chance to showcase himself more with us and still be on a really good team.

[brewcity77]

I guess I just view basketball as only having two outcomes; winning and losing.  There are three undefeated P6 teams in the top 10, and of those three, only one has a pair of top 10 wins, and therefore should be ranked 1.  When comparing teams with similar records, the committee and AP has consistently ranked quality of win higher than margin of victory.

And statistics show that's a mistake. Margin of victory is an excellent tool for predicting outcomes. Also, the voters are hypocrites in that regard. Duke jumped from 3 to 1 over Kansas because of their margin against Kentucky despite Kansas also winning that same night.

How and where you win is as important as who you do it against. Large margins & road wins are more impressive and better indicators of team quality than small winning margins at home.

[Its DJOver]

And statistics show that's a mistake. Margin of victory is an excellent tool for predicting outcomes. Also, the voters are hypocrites in that regard. Duke jumped from 3 to 1 over Kansas because of their margin against Kentucky despite Kansas also winning that same night.

How and where you win is as important as who you do it against. Large margins & road wins are more impressive and better indicators of team quality than small winning margins at home.

That explains why 10-0 Furman, with 5 true road wins is 23rd, and 8-0 Texas Tech with no road games is 11th.  Quality of opponent is far more important than just winning.  That's why so many people complain about our non conference strength of schedule every year.  What do you think was more reflective of the quality of Gtown last year.  Their 10-1 non conference with no quality wins, or their 5-13 conference record?

[wadesworld]

I've been as big a Wojo supporter as anyone, but this was bad. Losing by the point spread isn't the issue. Having a 9-point halftime lead and never being in the game in the second half is disgraceful. That game felt over even before we lost the lead.

We just needed a basket and kept throwing up bad looks. We didn't attack inside. Markus took contested looks too early. Then after falling down 14, we get it back to single digits with about a minute left and go inside when only threes would give us a chance.

Maybe we shouldn't have won, but we should've been in that game. And asking "what adjustments?" is a copout response. That's literally Wojo's job. To answer that question. Go inside, draw fouls, attack Azubuike, chirp at the refs and take a technical when Azubuike and Lawson are traveling or Cain is getting hacked inside without a whistle.

The first half was great, but that second was one of the worst coached halves I've seen in a long time. And I feel like second half adjustments is somewhere we are always at a disadvantage.

We should've won that game, but at the minimum, we certainly should've been in it. We weren't from the 20:00 mark of the second half, even when we still had the lead. That's sad.

Went from "we weren't in the game from the 20:00 mark of the second half" to "Kansas could've easily lost to us."

You point to a 2 point road win at powerhouse Northwestern as a positive on Michigan's resume and then try to talk down Kansas's resume because they could've lost to #3 Tennessee on a neutral court. It's absurd.

I'm glad Michigan is smoking up far inferior opponents. Their resume is also nowhere close to as good as Kansas's. Kansas's 3rd best win is right on par with Michigan's very best win.

[brewcity77]

Quality of opponent is far more important than just winning.

Exactly. Which is why Kansas barely beating marginal opponents like Stanford & NMSU matters.

Went from "we weren't in the game from the 20:00 mark of the second half" to "Kansas could've easily lost to us."

You point to a 2 point road win at powerhouse Northwestern as a positive on Michigan's resume and then try to talk down Kansas's resume because they could've lost to #3 Tennessee on a neutral court. It's absurd.

I'm glad Michigan is smoking up far inferior opponents. Their resume is also nowhere close to as good as Kansas's. Kansas's 3rd best win is right on par with Michigan's very best win.

Fine, take us out of it. They are still incredibly lucky to not be 5-3 and unranked.

And the difference is that Northwestern is the ONLY close game Michigan has played. Were you really impressed by Kansas against Stanford? I watched that game. They were bad. They were bad against NMSU. They are not as good a team as Michigan right now.

Kansas hasn't played an opponent at home as good as Purdue or UNC, yet they struggled more than UM has at home. No one with working eyes or any numerical sense could see how bad KU was in their last two home games and conclude they are better than Michigan, Duke, or Gonzaga.

[Warriors, Come Out and Playeeyay]

Does anyone else scroll through the replies to see where the post gets back on topic, only to be disappointed that it never actually does get back to the original scope?

[Its DJOver]

Brew, it sounds like you'd be in favor of our non-conference next year being one big road trip through the SWAC.  We'd rack up all those road wins, and they all (better be) by a comfortable margin. 

Playing and beating good teams far is more important than the margin, or the location, and Kansas has played and beat more good teams than anyone else in the country.  I don't necessarily like it, but Coach K's non conference strategy has proven to be quite effective over the years.

[DienerTime34]

What happened with Grimes' visit to MU? Didn't he let everyone know he was going to KU but was going to enjoy any festivities they had planned for him anyway? 

[UWW2MU]

Does anyone else scroll through the replies to see where the post gets back on topic, only to be disappointed that it never actually does get back to the original scope?

Speak for yourself, the off topic stuff is where it gets juicy!    You literally have to click every blah titled thread just to find the good stuff.   

[MomofMUltiples]

If we're talking about Kansas' performance overall, you can't ignore that Azubuike has been out the last 1.5 games with a foot injury.  MU also made their big run with Azubuike on the bench in foul trouble.  If he stays out much longer, KU will experience losses that could impact their ranking.

[Silkk the Shaka]

If we're talking about Kansas' performance overall, you can't ignore that Azubuike has been out the last 1.5 games with a foot injury.  MU also made their big run with Azubuike on the bench in foul trouble.  If he stays out much longer, KU will experience losses that could impact their ranking.

Yep for sure, huge loss that impacts how they play across the board

[Dawson Rental]

Does anyone else scroll through the replies to see where the post gets back on topic, only to be disappointed that it never actually does get back to the original scope?

I'll get back to you as soon as I get caught up on the nm thread.

[wadesworld]

Exactly. Which is why Kansas barely beating marginal opponents like Stanford & NMSU matters.

Fine, take us out of it. They are still incredibly lucky to not be 5-3 and unranked.

And the difference is that Northwestern is the ONLY close game Michigan has played. Were you really impressed by Kansas against Stanford? I watched that game. They were bad. They were bad against NMSU. They are not as good a team as Michigan right now.

Kansas hasn't played an opponent at home as good as Purdue or UNC, yet they struggled more than UM has at home. No one with working eyes or any numerical sense could see how bad KU was in their last two home games and conclude they are better than Michigan, Duke, or Gonzaga.

That damn kenpom guy is clueless again.

Come on man. You're a great MU poster. You're an awful UM poster. Glad you think home wins over Purdue and UNC are more impressive than neutral wins over Tennessee and Michigan State!

[muwarrior69]

Xavier though was generally an exception. I'm not saying KU can't earn a 1-seed. My first on the topic acknowledged that. I'm saying they are lucky and overrated. The odds are they will regress to the mean as the season goes on and games that could be wins will be losses.

As far as who in the Big 12 will beat them, I'd say the better question is who couldn't? After watching them against Stanford and NMSU, I think they could lose to anyone in that league on their home floor, and definitely on the road. The worst teams in the Big 12 are better than the teams that very nearly beat Kansas already at Phog Allen.

History tells us they'll win the league, but recent history tells us they aren't remotely as good as their record.

...yet they scored 22 straight against us which means if you use the transitive rule we were right up there with Stanford and NMSU and the rest of the Big12 is better than us.

[Lennys Tap]

And statistics show that's a mistake. Margin of victory is an excellent tool for predicting outcomes. Also, the voters are hypocrites in that regard. Duke jumped from 3 to 1 over Kansas because of their margin against Kentucky despite Kansas also winning that same night.

How and where you win is as important as who you do it against. Large margins & road wins are more impressive and better indicators of team quality than small winning margins at home.

You get it. Wades and DJ don't.

[brewcity77]

Brew, it sounds like you'd be in favor of our non-conference next year being one big road trip through the SWAC.  We'd rack up all those road wins, and they all (better be) by a comfortable margin. 

Playing and beating good teams far is more important than the margin, or the location, and Kansas has played and beat more good teams than anyone else in the country.  I don't necessarily like it, but Coach K's non conference strategy has proven to be quite effective over the years.

SMDH. I don't think you're paying any attention here. Villanova, North Carolina, Purdue, Providence, & South Carolina are not SWAC teams. Two were preseason top-10 teams. All are high majors that lost by double digits to Michigan.

It's who you beat, where you beat them, and how you beat them. It all matters. And beating teams like that by double digits is more impressive than beating NMSU by 3 at home.

[MuMark]

Come on guys......they are both worthy......Michigan has won more impressively overall but Kansas has played a more difficult schedule and is still undefeated......KU could have lost a few.....Michigan really could have only lost 1 but wasn't impressive against Northwestern or South Carolina.

Sometimes I think we argue for the sake or arguing......but please...not 2 of my favorite posters!

Ps I just had gallbladder surgery.....please let it go for my sake......

Pps this is what happens when we win 5 in a row and then get 10 days off......we go nuts.

[Its DJOver]

SMDH. I don't think you're paying any attention here. Villanova, North Carolina, Purdue, Providence, & South Carolina are not SWAC teams. Two were preseason top-10 teams. All are high majors that lost by double digits to Michigan.

It's who you beat, where you beat them, and how you beat them. It all matters. And beating teams like that by double digits is more impressive than beating NMSU by 3 at home.

Preseason ranking mean absolutely nothing, and you know that (unless you really think that the team that lost to Furman and Penn is actually the 9th best team in the country).  None of those teams are CURRENTLY top 10, meanwhile Tenn and MSU are both top 10 right now (and both lost to KU on a neutral court).  The AP poll disagrees with you, the coaches poll disagrees with you, kenpom disagrees with you, the selection committee disagrees with you.   Both teams are undefeated, one's played the toughest strength of schedule, one's played the 46th (19 spots behind us BTW).

https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/rankings/sos

Generally speaking, if you are undefeated and play a schedule that is tougher than literally everyone else in the country, you're deserving of being the #1 team in the country.

[Its DJOver]

Come on guys......they are both worthy......Michigan has won more impressively overall but Kansas has played a more difficult schedule and is still undefeated......KU could have lost a few.....Michigan really could have only lost 1 but wasn't impressive against Northwestern or South Carolina.

Sometimes I think we argue for the sake or arguing......but please...not 2 of my favorite posters!

Ps I just had gallbladder surgery.....please let it go for my sake......

Pps this is what happens when we win 5 in a row and then get 10 days off......we go nuts.

Didn't see this until just now.  Just for you Mark, I will officially drop this (until March).  Wishing you a speedy recovery.

Ps  I take it I'm the odd man out, and you really only like Brew and Wades.

[wadesworld]

You get it. Wades and DJ don't.

Says the guy who tried to bet people that Xavier was "overrated" in January and tried to make the claim that if they finished 6th in the polls instead of 7th that is proof. Lol.

Oh and by the way Xavier then finished with a 1 seed so you then shifted the goalposts to "see they lost to FSU so they were overrated."

UVA vastly overrated too hey?

But what do I know? Beating Purdue, UNC, and Nova is more impressive than beating Tennessee, Michigan State, and Marquette.

Thanks for the laughs as always Lenny. The entertainment from you never fails.

[Lennys Tap]

Says the guy who tried to bet people that Xavier was "overrated" in January and tried to make the claim that if they finished 6th in the polls instead of 7th that is proof. Lol.

Oh and by the way Xavier then finished with a 1 seed so you then shifted the goalposts to "see they lost to FSU so they were overrated."

UVA vastly overrated too hey?

But what do I know? Beating Purdue, UNC, and Nova is more impressive than beating Tennessee, Michigan State, and Marquette.

Thanks for the laughs as always Lenny. The entertainment from you never fails.

You are hopeless.

[wadesworld]

You are hopeless.

When it comes to giving into stupidity, yes I am.

[Lennys Tap]

When it comes to stupidity, yes I am.

FIFY