Worst/Best Christmas Songs?

[reinko]

Baby It's Cold outside #2 digital song download, #10 overall download.

As my darling wife said, good frisky fun.

I love that woman!!

Who downloads music anymore?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Who downloads music anymore?

Says the guy with an 8 track player in his truck.

[GGGG]

The real question is, do you listen to "Baby It's Cold Outside" while eating a gingerbread man?

[MomofMUltiples]

There's a generational issue here.  A long, long time ago (with apologies to Don McLean) when I started dating, that kind of flirting was common and, yes, fun.  It's a dance of delicacy, where the girl says enough to let the boy know she's interested but not easy, and the boy says things that are flattering or caring, to get the girl to go out with him.  You can consider the lyrics to be some guy pressuring a woman to do something she doesn't want to, or you can consider it a historic mating ritual.  Times were different then.  The boys asked out the girls, dates were more formal affairs, with an actual agenda like going to the movies or a concert and a kiss goodnight at the door, not "hanging out" or "hooking up" like my kids do.

There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time.  I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened. 

So I also choose to consider "Baby it's cold outside" as a fun and flirty song representative of a courtship in the 1940's.  Most of my Christmas favorites come from my youth, like "'Twas the night before Christmas,"  and my dad always used to play a song that went, "Let's forget about tomorrow 'cause tomorrow never comes" on Christmas Eve, which just aggravated our anticipation for Christmas morning.  From the modern era:  Best: "My Grown-Up Christmas List."  Worst: "Grandma got run over by a reindeer."

[GGGG]

There's a generational issue here.  A long, long time ago (with apologies to Don McLean) when I started dating, that kind of flirting was common and, yes, fun.  It's a dance of delicacy, where the girl says enough to let the boy know she's interested but not easy, and the boy says things that are flattering or caring, to get the girl to go out with him.  You can consider the lyrics to be some guy pressuring a woman to do something she doesn't want to, or you can consider it a historic mating ritual.  Times were different then.  The boys asked out the girls, dates were more formal affairs, with an actual agenda like going to the movies or a concert and a kiss goodnight at the door, not "hanging out" or "hooking up" like my kids do.

I agree with this.  Keeping the song in historical context is important.

There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time.  I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened. 

Yeah this is a bit of a leap.  Columbus' actions were brave certainly, and yeah his more abhorrent actions should be viewed in the context of time, but does that mean that a national holiday in his recognition is still appropriate? 

[reinko]

Says the guy with an 8 track player in his truck.  van

[Lennys Tap]

There's a generational issue here.  A long, long time ago (with apologies to Don McLean) when I started dating, that kind of flirting was common and, yes, fun.  It's a dance of delicacy, where the girl says enough to let the boy know she's interested but not easy, and the boy says things that are flattering or caring, to get the girl to go out with him.  You can consider the lyrics to be some guy pressuring a woman to do something she doesn't want to, or you can consider it a historic mating ritual.  Times were different then.  The boys asked out the girls, dates were more formal affairs, with an actual agenda like going to the movies or a concert and a kiss goodnight at the door, not "hanging out" or "hooking up" like my kids do.

There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time.  I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened. 

So I also choose to consider "Baby it's cold outside" as a fun and flirty song representative of a courtship in the 1940's.  Most of my Christmas favorites come from my youth, like "'Twas the night before Christmas,"  and my dad always used to play a song that went, "Let's forget about tomorrow 'cause tomorrow never comes" on Christmas Eve, which just aggravated our anticipation for Christmas morning.  From the modern era:  Best: "My Grown-Up Christmas List."  Worst: "Grandma got run over by a reindeer."

Mom,

This is very well said, exactly what I was trying to (though not as artfully) point out. Context matters. Maybe now that it's also been pointed out by a woman of our generation just how innocent that song was some of the "it's an ode to date rape" nonsense can be put to bed. Maybe even those who need to feel superior defending imaginary victims will save their outrage for real ones.

[Pakuni]

There's a generational issue here.  A long, long time ago (with apologies to Don McLean) when I started dating, that kind of flirting was common and, yes, fun.  It's a dance of delicacy, where the girl says enough to let the boy know she's interested but not easy, and the boy says things that are flattering or caring, to get the girl to go out with him.  You can consider the lyrics to be some guy pressuring a woman to do something she doesn't want to, or you can consider it a historic mating ritual.  Times were different then.  The boys asked out the girls, dates were more formal affairs, with an actual agenda like going to the movies or a concert and a kiss goodnight at the door, not "hanging out" or "hooking up" like my kids do.

There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time.  I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened. 

So I also choose to consider "Baby it's cold outside" as a fun and flirty song representative of a courtship in the 1940's.  Most of my Christmas favorites come from my youth, like "'Twas the night before Christmas,"  and my dad always used to play a song that went, "Let's forget about tomorrow 'cause tomorrow never comes" on Christmas Eve, which just aggravated our anticipation for Christmas morning.  From the modern era:  Best: "My Grown-Up Christmas List."  Worst: "Grandma got run over by a reindeer."

There no doubt a time when, in historical context, blackface was relatively harmless in comparison to the other racial injustices and prejudices occurring in this country, and totally fit with the moral and ethical standards of the day.
Should we continue in 2018 to judge it by the moral and ethical standards of the 19th century?

[Lennys Tap]

There no doubt a time when, in historical context, blackface was relatively harmless in comparison to the other racial injustices and prejudices occurring in this country, and totally fit with the moral and ethical standards of the day.
Should we continue in 2018 to judge it by the moral and ethical standards of the 19th century?

So how does a racial injustice (minor or otherwise) from 150 years ago compare with innocent flirting 50 years ago? One was always wrong, the other never was.

[Pakuni]

So how does a racial injustice (minor or otherwise) from 150 years ago compare with innocent flirting 50 years ago? One was always wrong, the other never was.

First, I would suggest that by the morals and ethics of the 19th century, when blackface began, it was viewed neither as wrong or a racial injustice. It was viewed as a way for white actors to portray black characters (often as caricatures, to be sure).

Second, innocent flirting is how you choose to interpret the song. That's fine. You're free to that interpretation. I've never criticized that interpretation by you or anyone else here.
But many others have a different interpretation, one that is no less valid than yours and to which they're equally entitled.
Except in your mind, because only your take matters, it seems. Others are kooky and dangerous.

[MomofMUltiples]

Yeah this is a bit of a leap.  Columbus' actions were brave certainly, and yeah his more abhorrent actions should be viewed in the context of time, but does that mean that a national holiday in his recognition is still appropriate?

That's not what I was getting at.  National Holidays do change over time.  When I was a kid we celebrated both Lincoln and Washington' s birthday in February until some genius had the idea to combine them into a single Monday holiday which to me meant we only got one day off instead of two.  However, we added a day back when we started to celebrate the birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr; a holiday that would have been unthinkable in the 1970s.

So no, I don't think we need to have a national "Columbus day" holiday - but I also don't think schools should teach children that "Columbus was a bad man (Which is something my colleague's daughter brought home from school last fall). He did some bad things, things we would hopefully never do today. Maybe we turn it into Explorer's day, and we can celebrate everyone who set out for new frontiers, from Vespucci to Davy Crockett to Neil Armstrong.  Times change, holidays should as well.

And because blackface was popular back in the day, Pakuni, doesn't mean it is a correct thing to do now.  And we don't have to even admit it was a correct thing to do back then.  It wasn't.  But that also doesn't always mean that the people who did it were bad people.  Or maybe they were, but they were not generally recognized as so by (who they considered) their peers.

This doesn't only apply to bad things - I grew up writing in cursive script and using proper spelling, grammar and punctuation.  Today we shorten words like "gr8" to fit them into limited character fields, and my kids can't read my grocery lists.  Times change. Adapt or become extinct.

Back to Christmas Carols, though - I really really hate "Jingle Bell Rock."  It's not even rock, fer chrissakes!

[Lennys Tap]

Second, innocent flirting is how you choose to interpret the song. That's fine. You're free to that interpretation. I've never criticized that interpretation by you or anyone else here.
But many others have a different interpretation, one that is no less valid than yours and to which they're equally entitled.
Except in your mind, because only your take matters, it seems. Others are kooky and dangerous.

Sorry, interpretations that ignore context are aren't just alternative interpretations - they're inferior ones, too.

[brewcity77]

There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time.  I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened.

They didn't believe that. Humans have known the world was round for over 2,000 years and the works of Aristotle referred to it. It was common knowledge by Columbus' time. The only reason people didn't go that way was because they didn't know North America was there and they thought it was too far to go to Asia & travelers would run out of supplies.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

There's a generational issue here.  A long, long time ago (with apologies to Don McLean) when I started dating, that kind of flirting was common and, yes, fun.  It's a dance of delicacy, where the girl says enough to let the boy know she's interested but not easy, and the boy says things that are flattering or caring, to get the girl to go out with him.  You can consider the lyrics to be some guy pressuring a woman to do something she doesn't want to, or you can consider it a historic mating ritual.  Times were different then.  The boys asked out the girls, dates were more formal affairs, with an actual agenda like going to the movies or a concert and a kiss goodnight at the door, not "hanging out" or "hooking up" like my kids do.

There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time.  I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened. 

So I also choose to consider "Baby it's cold outside" as a fun and flirty song representative of a courtship in the 1940's.  Most of my Christmas favorites come from my youth, like "'Twas the night before Christmas,"  and my dad always used to play a song that went, "Let's forget about tomorrow 'cause tomorrow never comes" on Christmas Eve, which just aggravated our anticipation for Christmas morning.  From the modern era:  Best: "My Grown-Up Christmas List."  Worst: "Grandma got run over by a reindeer."

Hi Chicos.   

[Cheeks]

Who downloads music anymore?

Millions upon millions of people.

[Cheeks]

There no doubt a time when, in historical context, blackface was relatively harmless in comparison to the other racial injustices and prejudices occurring in this country, and totally fit with the moral and ethical standards of the day.
Should we continue in 2018 to judge it by the moral and ethical standards of the 19th century?

Intent matters.  Timing matters.

The song is not about date rape, it is absurd to suggest so. I'm glad the generation fromwhich the song came about is pushing back to show how silly this entire nonsense is.   

Mom, great response and agree completely.

[mikekinsellaMVP]

https://www.gq.com/story/the-baby-its-cold-outside-discourse-is-boring-as-hell

[GGGG]

https://www.gq.com/story/the-baby-its-cold-outside-discourse-is-boring-as-hell

Yeah that's really a good take. This debate is so tiresome.

It's not a "date rape song," nor is it some feminist statement.  It's a fun little duet with silly lyrics.  No more, no less.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

There's a generational issue here.  A long, long time ago (with apologies to Don McLean) when I started dating, that kind of flirting was common and, yes, fun.  It's a dance of delicacy, where the girl says enough to let the boy know she's interested but not easy, and the boy says things that are flattering or caring, to get the girl to go out with him.  You can consider the lyrics to be some guy pressuring a woman to do something she doesn't want to, or you can consider it a historic mating ritual.  Times were different then.  The boys asked out the girls, dates were more formal affairs, with an actual agenda like going to the movies or a concert and a kiss goodnight at the door, not "hanging out" or "hooking up" like my kids do.

There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time.  I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened. 

So I also choose to consider "Baby it's cold outside" as a fun and flirty song representative of a courtship in the 1940's.  Most of my Christmas favorites come from my youth, like "'Twas the night before Christmas,"  and my dad always used to play a song that went, "Let's forget about tomorrow 'cause tomorrow never comes" on Christmas Eve, which just aggravated our anticipation for Christmas morning.  From the modern era:  Best: "My Grown-Up Christmas List."  Worst: "Grandma got run over by a reindeer."

Rolling Stone just wrote about this song.  An interesting read.

'Baby, It's Cold Outside': A Brief History of the Holiday Song Controversy
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/baby-its-cold-outside-controversy-holiday-song-history-768183/

[barfolomew]

Not song-related, but it is Christmas-related:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/midwest/ct-wisconsin-naked-man-20181221-story.html

MU82, what were you in town for?

[Cheeks]

Hi Chicos.   

I laughed.  Not me, but definitely laughed at your response.

[Galway Eagle]

Bump. 'Tis the season

[Warrior Code]

Bump. 'Tis the season

Ok, without rehashing this whole thread:

Some good ones: "What Christmas Means to Me" by Stevie Wonder, "Christmas in Killarney" by Bing Crosby, "Cool Yule" and "Winter Wonderland" by Louis Armstrong, "The Christmas Song" by Nat King Cole, most any version of "Carol of the Bells,"  "White Christmas" by Otis Redding, "Frosty the Snowman" by Jackson 5, "Linus and Lucy" by Vince Guaraldi, "Run Rudolph Run" by Chuck Berry, "Father Christmas" by the Kinks, "Happy Holiday" by Andy Williams. "You're A Mean One, Mr. Grinch" remains an unparalleled diss track.

Yes, it is entirely overplayed, but "All I Want for Christmas Is You" is still a bop and hearing it on the radio really ushers in the season.


Worst: That "Christmas Shoes" song, "Wonderful Christmastime" by Paul McCartney, "Do They Know It's Christmas?," "Last Christmas" by Wham!, "Santa Baby" (any version), the Chipmunks' songs, "Hallelujah" by Pentatonix (not a Christmas song!), "Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer"

[mu_hilltopper]

Mr. Hankey the Christmas Poo.

[reinko]

Ok, without rehashing this whole thread:

Some good ones: "What Christmas Means to Me" by Stevie Wonder, "Christmas in Killarney" by Bing Crosby, "Cool Yule" and "Winter Wonderland" by Louis Armstrong, "The Christmas Song" by Nat King Cole, most any version of "Carol of the Bells,"  "White Christmas" by Otis Redding, "Frosty the Snowman" by Jackson 5, "Linus and Lucy" by Vince Guaraldi, "Run Rudolph Run" by Chuck Berry, "Father Christmas" by the Kinks, "Happy Holiday" by Andy Williams. "You're A Mean One, Mr. Grinch" remains an unparalleled diss track.

Yes, it is entirely overplayed, but "All I Want for Christmas Is You" is still a bop and hearing it on the radio really ushers in the season.


Worst: That "Christmas Shoes" song, "Wonderful Christmastime" by Paul McCartney, "Do They Know It's Christmas?," "Last Christmas" by Wham!, "Santa Baby" (any version), the Chipmunks' songs, "Hallelujah" by Pentatonix (not a Christmas song!), "Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer"

Last Christmas by Wham! is a banger.

Anything by the Ronnettes is 🔥