MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Galway Eagle on December 08, 2018, 05:50:10 AM
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Any songs or versions of songs that you flat out hate or love?
Dominic the donkey and Santa Baby top my list of terrible.
Fairytale of New York is my favorite by far.
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It goes in waves. Best: Oh, Holy Night, Josh Groban. The one that I used to be ambivalent about is 'Have yourself a Merry Little Christmas'. Then, after seeing/hearing it in Monuments Men, I hear it differently and I have come to enjoy it.
Silent Night/Night of Silence sung together by a decent choir.
Worst: Rockin around the Christmas Tree. Baby, its cold outside.
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Fairytale of New York is fantastic. Father Christmas by The Kinks is another good one. Christmas in Hollis by Run DMC. Also the Bad Religion version of Silent Night.
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Almost too many to list, old classics by the Jackson Five and the Ronnettes are fantastic, Stevie Wonder has an old holiday album that is amazing, The Boss, Santa Claus is Comin to Town, The Very Special Christmas albums are generally pretty good...
I have curated the following holiday playlist over the years, feel free to give it a listen if you have Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/user/1219323110/playlist/0VziBqoDv7rvOvA31WZt7w?si=pFi8hk8ITY2GHAWclEM08Q
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"The Best Christmas Song " by Jon Lajoie.
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It goes in waves. Best: Oh, Holy Night, Josh Groban. The one that I used to be ambivalent about is 'Have yourself a Merry Little Christmas'. Then, after seeing/hearing it in Monuments Men, I hear it differently and I have come to enjoy it.
Silent Night/Night of Silence sung together by a decent choir.
Worst: Rockin around the Christmas Tree. Baby, its cold outside.
Herman/Tex/munfy's fave
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I can't stand "Simply Having a Wonderful Christmas Time" or "Christmas Shoes"
For the classics my favorites are always "Silent Night" and "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen"
For the more contemporary songs I really like Straight No Chasers "Text Me Merry Christmas" Somehow it always gets stuck in my head
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Have any of you heard dropkick Murphys seasons upon us? Completely forgot about the tune till my housemate played it the other night. It's hilarious
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Best : The Christmas Song - Nat King Cole
Worst: Merry Christmas War is Over - John and Yoko
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Herman/Tex/munfy's fave
Keep showing how small you are
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12 Days of In Before The Lock.
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Keep showing how small you are
It was funny AND it was an obvious joke.
Worst: any rendition of any song by Trans Siberian Orchestra
Best: Silent Night (yes, as an atheist i love this song), Christmas Time is Here
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There was a reggae Christmas album that I listened the crap out of while at MU.
Inexplicably, I can't find it on YouTube, but it had some great ones:
Irie Christmas -- Freddie MacGregor
Christmas Stylee -- Johhny Osbourne
Sound the Trumpet -- The Wailers
And the best version of White Christmas that I ever heard.
Wish I could find it.
EDIT: Found it! Reggae Christmas from Studio One.
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Keep showing how small you are
Christmas is the perfect time for snowflakes.
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Keep showing how small you are
I asked for Christmas songs not arguments. He didn't even reference you why're you taking it personal?
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12 Days of In Before The Lock.
I love that song! And this one, of course.
https://www.youtube.com/v/Eq9xD0DRPXk?t=10
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"Hanukkah" song by Adam Sandler, aina?
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Holly Jolly Christmas by Burl Ives is the best in my eyes.
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Really like this combo of God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen and We Three Kings by Barenaked Ladies and Sarah McLachlan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGVNzgUxE-g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGVNzgUxE-g)
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The dealership where I spend 7,000 hours a week has been playing Sirius XM "Holly," since Black Friday, so right about now all Christmas songs sound terrible.
That said, "It's Christmas All Over Again," by Tom Petty is my favorite.
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Keep showing how small you are
Interesting. I didn't know it would be a controversial position for me to be against getting young women intentionally drink for the purpose of having unprotected sex with them.
Guess it takes bigger men than me to commit the act.
Thanks for setting me straight and being the SJW of the board
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Any songs or versions of songs that you flat out hate or love?
Dominic the donkey and Santa Baby top my list of terrible.
Fairytale in New York is my favorite by far.
Haha, way to be a stereotype. The Irish guy hates the Italian donkey and loves the Pogues.
JK of course, we all know you are really Italian. ;D
Though the title is Fairytale of New York, by the way.
I love many Christmas songs, but the one I really hate is "Do they know it is Christmas". It is idiotic and incorrect at best, and reeks of condescension and western superiority . It is just a ridiculous song all the way around. Really? No rivers flow? You can't think of one river in Africa? Not one that was basically the cradle of civilization? Do they know it is Christmas, really, on the continent that had Christianity loooooong before it took hold in Europe? I really hate that song.
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Best would be the entire Christmas album by Bruce Cockburn
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Haha, way to be a stereotype. The Irish guy hates the Italian donkey and loves the Pogues.
JK of course, we all know you are really Italian. ;D
Though the title is Fairytale of New York, by the way.
I love many Christmas songs, but the one I really hate is "Do they know it is Christmas". It is idiotic and incorrect at best, and reeks of condescension and western superiority . It is just a ridiculous song all the way around. Really? No rivers flow? You can't think of one river in Africa? Not one that was basically the cradle of civilization? Do they know it is Christmas, really, on the continent that had Christianity loooooong before it took hold in Europe? I really hate that song.
hahaha you should see the look on customs here when I pull out the irish passport with an italian last name and american accent.
And you're right. It dawned on me while writing the post I've only ever called it fairytale and never looked on the back of the cd case so I took a guess.
Do you know its christmas is a terrible one but the end is so catchy it always gets stuck in my head
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Forgot a few of my favs above, Christmas Wrapping by the Waitresses, newer one my Megan Trainor, I’ll Be Home, Last Christmas by WHAM...
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All Christmas songs are garbage, but Josh Groban's Christmas album is probably the best. And then 'Believe' from Polar Express.
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Best: God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen - Jennifer Warnes
Worst: Little Saint Nick - Beach Boys. "Christmas comes this time each year" is one of the laziest lines in a song I've ever heard. For some strange reason annoys the hell out of me.
Other good ones: White Christmas by the Drifters always puts a smile on my face. Little Drummer Boy/Peace on Earth by David Bowie/Bing Crosby. Christmas All Over by Tom Petty. Father Christmas by the Kinks. Used to love Santa Claus is Coming to Town by Bruce Springsteen, but I've heard it too much.
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Worst: Baby It’s Cold Outside.
-Date rape then is date rape today, even if it didn’t have a name 60 years ago.
Best: Fairytale of New York.
-Also a wonderful reason not to vacation in Mexico.
Honorable mention (good):
Where the River Meets the Sea, John Denver.
-Not actually a Christmas song, but it was in the John Denver/Muppets Christmas album.
Snoopy’s Christmas, The Royal Guardsman.
-I don’t know, but... Snoopy... hard to explain.... it’s a Gen X thing.
Christmas Canon, Trans-Siberian Orchestra.
-If your wife walked down the aisle to Canon In D, it’s a guaranteed tear-jerker.
Honorable Mention (bad):
Anything from the White Christmas album. Especially that damn “Sisters” song. FFS, just tell her you want a three-way.
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hahaha you should see the look on customs here when I pull out the irish passport with an italian last name and american accent.
And you're right. It dawned on me while writing the post I've only ever called it fairytale and never looked on the back of the cd case so I took a guess.
I love the title, well, I think because so many Irish songs idealize the US, and New York specifically, and the song shows that sometimes it doesn't matter where you are, and that all those stories are just well, fairytales.
If anyone on here enjoys Irish music, The Chieftains, Bells of Dublin is a great album. Some very traditional songs, some new, and a great lively, playful attitude throughout the entire album.
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I Saw Three Ships (multiple - Bare naked ladies has a good modern version) and agree on Fairytale of New York (pogues)
Oh and ultra classic “Good King Wenceslas”
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I Saw Three Ships (multiple - Bare naked ladies has a good modern version) and agree on Fairytale of New York (pogues)
Oh and ultra classic “Good King Wenceslas”
Good King Wenceslas is not a Christmas song. It is about the Feast of Steven. ;)
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Good King Wenceslas is not a Christmas song. It is about the Feast of Steven. ;)
Fair enough. I will tell that to the church choir this year to ensure they know.
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Some of our favorites (worst list is too long)
O Tannenbaum by Vince Guaraldi Trio
Please let me be your Santa Claus by William Clarke
Sweet little baby boy by Angela Strehli
Run Rudolph Run by Chuck Berry
Zydeco Christmas by Clifton Chenier
A Breton Carol by The Chieftains with Nolwen Monjarret
and it isn't Christmas without In the Dells or O Little town of Cudahy by the Cudahy Carolers
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I'm always open to a good new Christmas song and I'd never heard of the Fairytale of New York song so I searched it out.
A perfect reminder that music enjoyment is one of the most subjective things in life. Wow. Unless you guys are just being ironic. Wow.
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I'm always open to a good new Christmas song and I'd never heard of the Fairytale of New York song so I searched it out.
A perfect reminder that music enjoyment is one of the most subjective things in life. Wow. Unless you guys are just being ironic. Wow.
Not in the least. Fairytale is sheer brilliance, as is most anything Shane McGowan did with The Pogues.
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Not in the least. Fairytale is sheer brilliance, as is most anything Shane McGowan did with The Pogues.
Well, if I'm ever the instigator in a hostage situation, you know what to tell the police to play on the loudspeakers outside the house to get me to surrender 😁
Merry Christmas regardless
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Well, if I'm ever the instigator in a hostage situation, you know what to tell the police to play on the loudspeakers outside the house to get me to surrender 😁
Merry Christmas regardless
If Shane's vocals are a bit harsh, try the Ed Sheeran/Anne-Marie version. It isn't quite as gritty as the original.
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If Shane's vocals are a bit harsh, try the Ed Sheeran/Anne-Marie version. It isn't quite as gritty as the original.
I certainly get it about that song. I wouldn't even say it is really a Christmas song, it is a song about a bad relationship that happens on Christmas eve.
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I certainly get it about that song. I wouldn't even say it is really a Christmas song, it is a song about a bad relationship that happens on Christmas eve.
I suppose you don't think "Die Hard" is a Christmas movie either?
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I suppose you don't think "Die Hard" is a Christmas movie either?
Nope, definitely a Christmas movie. It hits all the required themes and feelings.
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Not in the least. Fairytale is sheer brilliance, as is most anything Shane McGowan did with The Pogues.
I think we'd have good conversation about music
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I'm always open to a good new Christmas song and I'd never heard of the Fairytale of New York song so I searched it out.
A perfect reminder that music enjoyment is one of the most subjective things in life. Wow. Unless you guys are just being ironic. Wow.
Hahaha yeah it's not for everyone I suppose. You can't go anywhere around here without a busker or band playing it let alone how many times it's just on the radio.
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I think we'd have good conversation about music
I was thinking the same. And couldn't help but chuckle that the guy with "Galway" in his username brought up Fairytale in the first place. ;D
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Worst: Baby It’s Cold Outside.
-Date rape then is date rape today, even if it didn’t have a name 60 years ago.
[...]
Counterpoint, read in the context in which it was composed, "Baby it's cold outside" is a song about a woman exercising her own sexual agency in world that would judge her for doing so.
https://twitter.com/hels/status/676118244168704000
https://twitter.com/adamheine/status/935684652068569088
"... the woman has a voice, and she's using it to give all the culturally-understood signals that she actually does want to stay but can't say so [...] at the end of the song, they're signing together, in harmony, because they're both on the same page and they have been all along."
Plus it's a nice duet.
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Gremlins was on TV in the hotel breakfast area this morning. A gremlin was attacking a woman with a Christmas tree.
Put it on the list.
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Gremlins was on TV in the hotel breakfast area this morning. A gremlin was attacking a woman with a Christmas tree.
Put it on the list.
Yup, it's a Christmas movie. The entire premise is based on Mr. Peltzer getting his son a unique Christmas present. Lethal Weapon is also a Christmas movie that explores the importance of connecting with a family over the holidays, as Martin Riggs overcomes the loss of his wife and grows close to Roger Murtaugh and his family, which ultimately saves his life.
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I’ll be home for Christmas-Tony Bennett (Snowfall version). That version swings, baby....
Anything Vince Giraldi. Dave Brubeck Christmas is pretty good also.
Hate? Simply having a wonderful Christmas Time
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Baby It's Cold Outside
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Counterpoint, read in the context in which it was composed, "Baby it's cold outside" is a song about a woman exercising her own sexual agency in world that would judge her for doing so.
https://twitter.com/hels/status/676118244168704000
https://twitter.com/adamheine/status/935684652068569088
"... the woman has a voice, and she's using it to give all the culturally-understood signals that she actually does want to stay but can't say so [...] at the end of the song, they're signing together, in harmony, because they're both on the same page and they have been all along."
Plus it's a nice duet.
Who wrote that? Kareem Hunt's lawyer?
"Mr. Hunt wasn't attacking the victim... he was teaching her how to stand up for herself and fight back in a world that would judge her for doing so."
Not in the least. Fairytale is sheer brilliance, as is most anything Shane McGowan did with The Pogues.
In this instance, Kirsty MacColl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsty_MacColl) > Shane McGowan
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Can't pick just one and varies based on mood but top 10 for me (in no particular order):
River by Idina Menzel
Snoopy's Christmas by The Royal Guardsman (this is a quirky one because I was practically raised on the Snoopy vs Red Baron song series)
Fairytale of New York by the Pogues
Someday at Christmas by Stevie Wonder
Christmas in Hollis by Run-DMC
Run Rudolph Run by Chuck Berry
I'll Be Home for Christmas by Bing Crosby
Christmas Time in Hell by South Park creators
It Feels Like Christmas by Muppets
White Christmas by the Drifters
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P30ckBf1wk
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Counterpoint, read in the context in which it was composed, "Baby it's cold outside" is a song about a woman exercising her own sexual agency in world that would judge her for doing so.
https://twitter.com/hels/status/676118244168704000
https://twitter.com/adamheine/status/935684652068569088
"... the woman has a voice, and she's using it to give all the culturally-understood signals that she actually does want to stay but can't say so [...] at the end of the song, they're signing together, in harmony, because they're both on the same page and they have been all along."
Plus it's a nice duet.
It's possible to completely understand the historical context of this song but at the same time snicker about it since it comes off as a little date-rapey.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P30ckBf1wk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdN_8OlJGs0
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7sm49fHlyI
For you Hamilton fans who like a little Weird Al mixed in........
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P30ckBf1wk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehWTJbtEvBk
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Surprised nobody's mentioned Twisted Christmas, 12 Pains of Christmas is a classic
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjvUFBZWkKE
My favorite Christmas song of all time. My son's 6th birthday and he had a cold. He turns 12 this week. This will be the first Christmas my daughter will not be home. So, I am going to be sentimental now.
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It goes in waves. Best: Oh, Holy Night, Josh Groban. The one that I used to be ambivalent about is 'Have yourself a Merry Little Christmas'. Then, after seeing/hearing it in Monuments Men, I hear it differently and I have come to enjoy it.
Silent Night/Night of Silence sung together by a decent choir.
Worst: Rockin around the Christmas Tree. Baby, its cold outside.
We went to the Seattle Symphony Orchestra's Christmas Pops on Saturday (the SSO is world-class, by the way.)
If played by a proper orchestra with a choral ensemble and lead vocalists in the right venue these songs can be magical.
I understand your take on Merry Little Christmas. As originally written for and sung by Judy Garland in Meet Me in St Louis it invests an emotional value in the Christmas Spirit that is perhaps rivaled only by I'll Be Home for Christmas. We lose sight of the fact that Christmas is about the people in our lives. And it's not always about what we have or want; it is also about what we have lost or are missing.
Anyone who has been away from home during Christmas and Thanksgiving has a visceral appreciation of those lyrics.
The SSO had vocalists Capathia Jenkins and Tony DeSare and their take on Baby, It's Cold Outside was priceless. They alternated between wolf and mouse which gave perspective to the silliness over the manufactured controversy the song has experienced recently. And the crowd at Benaroya Hall in hyper-liberal Seattle loved their take on the age old dance of courtship.
I do agree that most of the Christmas songs written by contemporary pop stars are rubbish.
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The SSO had vocalists Capathia Jenkins and Tony DeSare and their take on Baby, It's Cold Outside was priceless. They alternated between wolf and mouse which gave perspective to the silliness over the manufactured controversy the song has experienced recently. And the crowd at Benaroya Hall in hyper-liberal Seattle loved their take on the age old dance of courtship.
"Alternated" between wolf and mouse?!?
Well of course that's silly, because nobody would ever try to blame a victim for bearing some sort of responsibility for - or influence on - the aggressor.
And WTF does it matter how hyper- or hypo- you are?? This isn't a liberal/conservative thing. If anything, it seems to be an age thing, as in people of a certain age making excuses for their obsolete, but still beloved, institution of male sexual determination (or whatever "scientific" euphemism you fogeys want ascribe to what we simply call date rape today).
The same reason the confederate flag is not acceptable today also applies to "Baby, It's Cold Outside," i.e. the original intention/meaning is irrelevant, it's symbolism is no longer tolerated.
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"Alternated" between wolf and mouse?!?
Well of course that's silly, because nobody would ever try to blame a victim for bearing some sort of responsibility for - or influence on - the aggressor.
And WTF does it matter how hyper- or hypo- you are?? This isn't a liberal/conservative thing. If anything, it seems to be an age thing, as in people of a certain age making excuses for their obsolete, but still beloved, institution of male sexual determination (or whatever "scientific" euphemism you fogeys want ascribe to what we simply call date rape today).
The same reason the confederate flag is not acceptable today also applies to "Baby, It's Cold Outside," i.e. the original intention/meaning is irrelevant, it's symbolism is no longer tolerated.
False syllogism.
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False syllogism.
Syllogism requires an A, B, and C, i.e. 'A is B,' 'B is C,' therefore 'A is C.'
After ascribing letters to my logic, all that's left is an F for incorrect use of the term syllogism.
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In this instance, Kirsty MacColl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsty_MacColl) > Shane McGowan
Speaking of Shane McGowan, who are your Ugliest Men in Rock History?
Mine:
1) Shane McGowan
2) Rik Ocasek
3) Any of the Ramones
4) Tom Petty
5) Pick 'em: Keith Richards/Mick Jagger
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Speaking of Shane McGowan, who are your Ugliest Men in Rock History?
Mine:
1) Shane McGowan
2) Rik Ocasek
3) Any of the Ramones
4) Tom Petty
5) Pick 'em: Keith Richards/Mick Jagger
Good list, but you are missing a few:
All of the traveling Wilburys
Lemmy Kilmister
Pete Townsend
Geddy Lee
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Speaking of Shane McGowan, who are your Ugliest Men in Rock History?
Mine:
1) Shane McGowan
2) Rik Ocasek
3) Any of the Ramones
4) Tom Petty
5) Pick 'em: Keith Richards/Mick Jagger
Fat Weird Al
Amish Weird Al
Madonna Weird Al
Thriller Weird Al
Prince was one scary motherf-ker, too. Baller could ball, though.
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Freddy Mercury and Ringo Starr
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Prince was one scary motherf-ker, too. Baller could ball, though.
Prince definitely does not belong on an ugly rock stars list. Sounds to me like he intimated you a little bit. ;)
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Meatloaf.
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Steven Tyler
Gene Simmons (why do you think he wore make-up?)
Marilyn Manson
Phil Collins
Michael Jackson in his later years
Southside Johnny
Iggy Pop
Mark E Smith
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Let's not be sexist!
Patti Smith
Janis Joplin
Yoko Ono
Mama Cass
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Gwar
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Gwar
How do you know?
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Let's not be sexist!
Patti Smith
Janis Joplin
Yoko Ono
Mama Cass
Can't help but notice how much shorter this list is.
#doublestandard
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https://www.youtube.com/v/Zry4GO8acLk
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Can't help but notice how much shorter this list is.
#doublestandard
There could be a lot more, but we are gentlemen. Chrissie Hynde for example. But who cares? She is fantastic. IF you are good enough, your looks won't stop you.
I think on the other end of the spectrum is where your point makes sense. There are a lot more attractive but relatively untalented women (like Jessica Simpson, Katie Perry and Brittany Spears) selling records than there are male counterparts (although there are boy bands for that.)
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Can't help but notice how much shorter this list is.
#doublestandard
JB thinks Carrie Underwood deserves to be on this list...
Just checked. She still looks like a dog.
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How do you know?
Oh, don't tell me you're one of those people who believe the members of Gwar are just regular human beings in costume, and not interstellar warriors from the farthest reaches of outer space.
#fakenews
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There could be a lot more, but we are gentlemen. Chrissie Hynde for example. But who cares? She is fantastic. IF you are good enough, your looks won't stop you.
I think on the other end of the spectrum is where your point makes sense. There are a lot more attractive but relatively untalented women (like Jessica Simpson, Katie Perry and Brittany Spears) selling records than there are male counterparts (although there are boy bands for that.)
Please. This is Chrissy Hynde as a young person who wasn't trying to actively develop a punk look and attitude:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/81/ad/4881ad7dd30deba8d22f421fb0d46fd3.jpg)
This is Pete Townshend
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/46/63/4f/46634f71c46da4252de1723e08f29d7a.jpg)
You cannot tell me that the female equivalent of Pete Townshend would ever get a record deal as a solo artist, at least not without having to submit herself to a major makeover (and probably surgery).
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Hynde though didn't get a record deal until her late 20s though.
But yeah your point stands.
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There could be a lot more, but we are gentlemen. Chrissie Hynde for example. But who cares? She is fantastic. IF you are good enough, your looks won't stop you.
I think on the other end of the spectrum is where your point makes sense. There are a lot more attractive but relatively untalented women (like Jessica Simpson, Katie Perry and Brittany Spears) selling records than there are male counterparts (although there are boy bands for that.)
I'm no Katy Perry fan, but she is 100 times more vocally talented than Jessica Simpson or Brittany Spears(especially Spears). The doublestandard in the music industry was as long as you were vocally talent as a male you could get a deal regardless of your appearance, whereas with relatively few exceptions you had to have an appealing appearance to get a record deal as a female, but a female could get a deal at a lower level of vocal talent if they fit the right "demographics".
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Do you hear what I hear.
If you were alive during the Cuban Missile crisis you know and understand the power of this Prayer put to music.
https://www.franciscanmedia.org/do-you-hear-what-i-hear-the-story-behind-the-song/
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I'm no Katy Perry fan, but she is 100 times more vocally talented than Jessica Simpson or Brittany Spears(especially Spears). The doublestandard in the music industry was as long as you were vocally talent as a male you could get a deal regardless of your appearance, whereas with relatively few exceptions you had to have an appealing appearance to get a record deal as a female, but a female could get a deal at a lower level of vocal talent if they fit the right "demographics".
I said "relatively". I suspect there are 1000s of more talented singers than Katy Perry who are not making millions singing. Katy Perry can sing just fine (I agree she is much better than the other two I mentioned), but she would not be a popular recording artist if she was not very attractive.
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Please. This is Chrissy Hynde as a young person who wasn't trying to actively develop a punk look and attitude:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/81/ad/4881ad7dd30deba8d22f421fb0d46fd3.jpg)
This is Pete Townshend
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/46/63/4f/46634f71c46da4252de1723e08f29d7a.jpg)
You cannot tell me that the female equivalent of Pete Townshend would ever get a record deal as a solo artist, at least not without having to submit herself to a major makeover (and probably surgery).
Pete Townshend was the only guy in The Who????? I had no idea. I thought there were other guys. I guess my thoughts were over the moon again.
His solo career as after he was already a legend. Not quite the same thing right?
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Pete Townshend was the only guy in The Who????? I had no idea. I thought there were other guys. I guess my thoughts were over the moon again.
His solo career as after he was already a legend. Not quite the same thing right?
Are there any women in rock music that are unattractive as he is?
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I said "relatively". I suspect there are 1000s of more talented singers than Katy Perry who are not making millions singing. Katy Perry can sing just fine (I agree she is much better than the other two I mentioned), but she would not be a popular recording artist if she was not very attractive.
I'm certainly not going to get in a fight with a respected poster such as yourself over Katy Perry cause lord knows I'm not a huge fan of her music but we'll have to agree to disagree because I think vocally she's just as talented as most active singers right now.
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Are there any women in rock music that are unattractive as he is?
Attraction can be pretty subjective, and I hate to be judgy about others' looks, but Kate Bush, Annie Lennox, k.d. lang, Tracy Chapman and Amy Winehouse aren't exactly supermodel material.
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Are there any women in rock music that are unattractive as he is?
Poor Pete, so he's got a giant schnozz?
Are these any better examples for females: Adele, Cher, Sinead, Imogen Heap, Lil Kim or maybe Susan Boyle?
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Prince definitely does not belong on an ugly rock stars list. Sounds to me like he intimated you a little bit. ;)
Dude was ugly as sin, not to mention disproportional. Had a 7' face on a 5' body with a 6' wingspan.
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Poor Pete, so he's got a giant schnozz?
Are these any better examples for females: Adele, Cher, Sinead, Imogen Heap, Lil Kim or maybe Susan Boyle?
Adele is very attractive. She might be too curvy for your taste, but that doesn't make her ugly.
Cher is gorgeous, and except for some crooked teeth she had at the beginning, always was.
Sinead is beautiful; you just don't like the way she wears her hair.
I don't know who Imogen Heap is, but needless to say is not a star.
Lil Kim started out as very attractive; I don't think she has been as popular since she started seriously messing with her body.
Susan Boyle is not a rock star, and would have never been signed to a label if she hadn't been a star on a reality show that used her unattractiveness for shock value.
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Adele is very attractive. She might be too curvy for your taste, but that doesn't make her ugly.
Yeah I think she's pretty decent. Plus if you break up with her, she writes an entire album about you!
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Yeah I think she's pretty decent. Plus if you break up with her, she writes an entire album about you!
The newest iteration of Tracy Ullman's show has a great bit where Adele is happy and trying to record crappy songs about puppies and rainbows, so her producer and manager purposely try to introduce some misery into her life.
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Adele is very attractive. She might be too curvy for your taste, but that doesn't make her ugly.
Cher is gorgeous, and except for some crooked teeth she had at the beginning, always was.
Sinead is beautiful; you just don't like the way she wears her hair.
I don't know who Imogen Heap is, but needless to say is not a star.
Lil Kim started out as very attractive; I don't think she has been as popular since she started seriously messing with her body.
Susan Boyle is not a rock star, and would have never been signed to a label if she hadn't been a star on a reality show that used her unattractiveness for shock value.
Yeah these are unwinnable arguments because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You could put a wig on Sinead or give me 60s Cher and I'd walk right on by but that in no way says they aren't good looking.
Great example is Lady Gaga or Amy Winehouse. There are people who would find them in their "native state" very attractive while repulsed by their stage appearance, or the opposite, or people who like both. So were they successful because they were attractive or because of their talent or both....no way to know.
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Did I miss George Thorogood? If not it’s like naming mountains and forgetting Everest.
Also, Sinead is drop dead gorgeous with hair.
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Are there any women in rock music that are unattractive as he is?
Any women in rock that play guitar like he does? Any that write songs like he does, and not just singles, but complete albums?
And that still ignores that he didn't get a "solo deal" until he had legend status.
There are few people as accomplished in rock at old Pete. He is not a just a "singer".
Also, Pete's frontman...
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQvOv9sNqJfrLPWs3Pi4A4N9VlmdHka4FUfrqgACtd80m3heP_I)
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Cher is gorgeous, and except for some crooked teeth she had at the beginning, always was.
She has Pete's nose FFS! She could be his sister.
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Young to middle aged Roger Waters was ugly and goofy looking. He finally grew into his features around age 60. ;D
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Do you hear what I hear.
If you were alive during the Cuban Missile crisis you know and understand the power of this Prayer put to music.
https://www.franciscanmedia.org/do-you-hear-what-i-hear-the-story-behind-the-song/
I always liked this song, but hearing the story behind it last year was unbelievable. Cant listen to it the same way, but it is more beautiful now.
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Adele is very attractive. She might be too curvy for your taste, but that doesn't make her ugly.
Cher is gorgeous, and except for some crooked teeth she had at the beginning, always was.
Sinead is beautiful; you just don't like the way she wears her hair.
I don't know who Imogen Heap is, but needless to say is not a star.
Lil Kim started out as very attractive; I don't think she has been as popular since she started seriously messing with her body.
Susan Boyle is not a rock star, and would have never been signed to a label if she hadn't been a star on a reality show that used her unattractiveness for shock value.
Going to disagree that it's the hair
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/02/article-2010532-0CD45C3600000578-162_472x678.jpg)
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It's possible to completely understand the historical context of this song but at the same time snicker about it since it comes off as a little date-rapey.
I agree that one might snicker but Benny (usually our most logical poster) and his minions are over the top bat spit.
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Can't help but notice how much shorter this list is.
#doublestandard
Should be shorter - the list of female rock stars is also.
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Going to disagree that it's the hair
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/02/article-2010532-0CD45C3600000578-162_472x678.jpg)
How about now?
(http://www.taaz.com/images/67D5898DD3715700ECE94DC69484D73D.jpg)
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How about now?
(http://www.taaz.com/images/67D5898DD3715700ECE94DC69484D73D.jpg)
Not that I care one way or the other, but I'm not sure a heavily touched up and filtered magazine cover photo is the most accurate representation of someone's appearance.
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https://www.youtube.com/v/CJB9GP5gyAw
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Sinead wasn't bad looking. Lots of facial structure similar to Natalie Portman.
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I agree that one might snicker but Benny (usually our most logical poster) and his minions are over the top bat spit.
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttt....... I got minions now, yo!
At the risk of Godwinning the thread, let’s bear in mind that the nazis didn’t invent the swastika... they appropriated it from some sort of ancient Egyptian tribe or whatnot. In fact, if one were to venture to the resort at West Baden Springs, IN circa 2005, surrounding one of the verandas on the property was an ornamental iron railing that was adorned in a repeating pattern of swastikas. As a WWII history nut, it was a painfully eerie sight even considering that the fence was built during WWI (just to be clear, WW-One did predate the nazis).
I have to believe the fence is no longer there*, even if the place is on the National Register, because the swastika - regardless of when it was cast/drawn/sculpted/whatever - is no longer acceptable, period. Likewise.... even if you think it’s ok to slip something in a woman’s drink or that maintaining your pride is more important than crushing someone’s dignity, the symbolism of the song is obsolete.
[And just so I don’t disappoint my peeps, just a taste of guano for all y’all]
*Then again, it’s Indiana, it’s Indiana... birthplace of the KKK, home of the distinctly separated municipalities of Whitestown and Brownsville, the only Union state during the Civil War that sanctioned the return of escaped slaves back South, and the flagship university that sports a convenient blending of an I and a U to create a W in its logo (hint: the ‘W’ doesn’t stand for “Win”). So if the railing is still there, go ahead and bust a move to Baby, It’s Cold Outside... just don’t start whining when society decides to leave you outside in the cold, baby.
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https://www.youtube.com/v/CJB9GP5gyAw
I hadn't listened to the original in ages. When I heard this, I thought both sets of lyrics were parody. Nope, it really is the full on date rape, down to spiking the drink.
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I hadn't listened to the original in ages. When I heard this, I thought both sets of lyrics were parody. Nope, it really is the full on date rape, down to spiking the drink.
Why is it those complaining about this song seem to not be as agitated about songs like Jump Around? The consistency, or lack of it, is amusing. This idea that the drink was spiked, no it wasn't. In college we made drinks that tasted great, you couldn't tell much alcohol was in it, but that didn't mean some drug was in there. Girls and guys would get drunk drinking the punch, which tasted like punch but didn't have a date rape drug in it.
Radio stations are backing down after listeners have revolted. Out in San Francisco, one of the most liberal cities in the nation, KOIT was forced to put it back on the air after 77% of listeners voted to stop the ban. Digital sales of the song have exploded.
“I know my dad would be going insane right now,” Dean Martin's daughter said. “He would say, ‘What’s the matter with you? Get over it. It’s just a fun song.’ Because he was so sweet. He would never see anything bad in that. He was a great guy, fun guy, nice. And he wouldn’t want to do anything offensive; that wasn’t Dean Martin. So this has just been outrageous.”
People stepped way overboard on this one. https://people.com/music/baby-its-cold-outside-composer-daughter-defends-song-bill-cosby/amp/
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How about now?
(http://www.taaz.com/images/67D5898DD3715700ECE94DC69484D73D.jpg)
I'll admit she had her looks years ago but has not aged well and definitely doesn't have the personality to pull off not aging well
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I'll admit she had her looks years ago but has not aged well and definitely doesn't have the personality to pull off not aging well
Sounds to me like you are describing nearly every middle aged woman in Ireland. ;)
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Why is it those complaining about this song seem to not be as agitated about songs like Jump Around? The consistency, or lack of it, is amusing. This idea that the drink was spiked, no it wasn't. In college we made drinks that tasted great, you couldn't tell much alcohol was in it, but that didn't mean some drug was in there. Girls and guys would get drunk drinking the punch, which tasted like punch but didn't have a date rape drug in it.
In Wisconsin (and likely many other states) alcohol is considered a date rape drug.
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Sounds to me like you are describing nearly every middle aged woman in Ireland. ;)
She lives in the Chicago suburbs ?-(
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She lives in the Chicago suburbs ?-(
I said "every" middle-aged woman in Ireland, not "every other".
And she would still be in Ireland if smart people hadn't overlooked her "unattractiveness" and made her a music star.
My point still stands. ;D
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I said "every" middle-aged woman in Ireland, not "every other".
And she would still be in Ireland if smart people hadn't overlooked her "unattractiveness" and made her a music star.
My point still stands. ;D
Just to be clear, is your point a negative stereotype against all women of a certain ethnicity?
Seems like a point worth making. Twice.
And after you went out of your way to say all women are beautiful too. Odd.
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I hadn't listened to the original in ages. When I heard this, I thought both sets of lyrics were parody. Nope, it really is the full on date rape, down to spiking the drink.
Taking things out of context again. Turning obvious consensual flirtation into rape is just the latest iteration of the literalist's war on common sense, Let's burn Tom Sawyer and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn while we're at it.
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Taking things out of context again. Turning obvious consensual flirtation into rape is just the latest iteration of the literalist's war on common sense, Let's burn Tom Sawyer and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn while we're at it.
Or maybe it's a real thing that two people can listen to the same lyric (or prose) and hear two very different meanings, and neither be wrong.
Art is subject to interpretation, you know, and what you see as "obvious" isn't so obvious to others.
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At the risk of Godwinning the thread, let’s bear in mind that the nazis didn’t invent the swastika... they appropriated it from some sort of ancient Egyptian tribe or whatnot.
Well, if the "Date Raper's Society of America" has appropriated "Baby It's Cold Outside" as their theme song or anthem your analogy makes sense. Otherwise, not so much.
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Or maybe it's a real thing that two people can listen to the same lyric (or prose) and hear two very different meanings, and neither be wrong.
Art is subject to interpretation, you know, and what you see as "obvious" isn't so obvious to others.
True. Some people are incapable of nuance or context and can only take things literally. They believe that God created the world in 7 days and that the Beatles actually lived in a yellow submarine. Usually just kooky, but it can be dangerous.
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In Wisconsin (and likely many other states) alcohol is considered a date rape drug.
We told our guests what was in the punch. The other clues were the kegs, and the fact we were having a party, in college. ;) I'm quite sure every guest knew what was going on.
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True. Some people are incapable of nuance or context and can only take things literally. They believe that God created the world in 7 days and that the Beatles actually lived in a yellow submarine. Usually just kooky, but it can be dangerous.
Got it. Art is subject to interpretation, but only Lenny's interpretation is valid. Others are kooky and potentially dangerous.
You must be a blast at book club.
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Got it. Art is subject to interpretation, but only Lenny's interpretation is valid. Others are kooky and potentially dangerous.
You must be a blast at book club.
Taking everything word for word literally is not an "interpretation". It's great for assembling a swing set but not when considering art.
I'm great at book club - very interested in hearing what other's thought the writer meant. I don't need anyone, though, to tell me what the book/song means today if taken literally (not as intended). Anyone able to read can do that - it has nothing to do with art.
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Just to be clear, is your point a negative stereotype against all women of a certain ethnicity?
Seems like a point worth making. Twice.
And after you went out of your way to say all women are beautiful too. Odd.
I made no statement, implied or otherwise, about the beauty of the woman in that picture.
Galway put up that picture as proof that Sinead is an unattractive woman. My comment was that she is no more unattractive than a typical middle-aged Irish woman.
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Taking everything word for word literally is not an "interpretation". It's great for assembling a swing set but not when considering art.
I'm great at book club - very interested in hearing what other's thought the writer meant. I don't need anyone, though, to tell me what the book/song means today if taken literally (not as intended). Anyone able to read can do that - it has nothing to do with art.
Well, for starters, your assertion that those who find the lyrics problematic are taking them too literally is wrong. Seeing the potential date-rapiness of it requires quite a bit of interpretation, as does your belief that it's all a bunch of harmless flirtation. A literal interpretation would be that this nice gentleman truly is concerned about the safety of this woman being out in such nasty weather ... something nobody believes.
You're not mad that people are taking the song too literally. You're made that their subjective interpretation is different than your subjective interpretation, because yours is the one that matters dammit.
Regardless, your argument here that nothing can or should be taken at face value is a bad one. Plenty of art, whether it be lyrics, poetry, prose, film or whatever, means exactly what it says. Or perhaps you'd like to share with us overly literal types what Prince really meant when he sang "I just need your body baby/From dusk till dawn."
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Taking everything word for word literally is not an "interpretation". It's great for assembling a swing set but not when considering art.
I'm great at book club - very interested in hearing what other's thought the writer meant. I don't need anyone, though, to tell me what the book/song means today if taken literally (not as intended). Anyone able to read can do that - it has nothing to do with art.
By it's very definition, literal is an interpretation. It doesn't exclude other interpretations, but it is certainly on the spectrum of interpretation. People may or may not value the literal interpretation (as you seem to not) but that doesn't mean it isn't a valid interpretation. Sometimes the red dot on the canvas is just a red dot.
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I said "every" middle-aged woman in Ireland, not "every other".
And she would still be in Ireland if smart people hadn't overlooked her "unattractiveness" and made her a music star.
My point still stands. ;D
Lol fair play to yah
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I'll admit she had her looks years ago but has not aged well and definitely doesn't have the personality to pull off not aging well
Mental illness, which she has publically acknowledged, will do that to you.
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Mental illness, which she has publically acknowledged, will do that to you.
sort of depends on the illness but yeah I'd agree. That is a different argument entirely though and not christmas song related nor is it related to whether a rock star is attractive (which apparently this thread is about now)
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Why is it those complaining about this song seem to not be as agitated about songs like Jump Around?
Fake News. (With apologies to R.A.S.) I was adamant in calling on MU to remove it this year. So far, I don't recall having hear Jump Around at any of the games so far this year, so unless my memory deceives, it would appear that I'm not alone on this hill.
To be clear, there is no illusion here that I was the cause - or even a factor - for the removal/hiatus, but I would be more than happy to take the blame.
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Well, if the "Date Raper's Society of America" has appropriated "Baby It's Cold Outside" as their theme song or anthem your analogy makes sense. Otherwise, not so much.
The fact it was appropriated is moot, the material component is that the swastika is symbolic of something with which no sane-minded individual should desire to associate.
Likewise, perhaps pressuring a woman to stay the night was normative behavior in the 1950's. It isn't anymore. Regardless of intention.
So let's step aside from the song for a moment and look at a similar situation from a different perspective: a woman is over at a man's house. Doesn't matter if the freakin' wind chill is 20 below zero, if the woman says she wants to leave (unless you live in rural Alaska) a real man gives her a warm coat and calls to make sure she got home OK. Research paper, music lessons, coffee, dinner, cocktails, back rubs, foreplay, a best of five Hungry Hungry Hippos contest doesn't matter.... whatever has happened prior and leading up to that point is irrelevant. She says she wants to go; he has no business standing in her way.
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sort of depends on the illness but yeah I'd agree. That is a different argument entirely though and not christmas song related nor is it related to whether a rock star is attractive (which apparently this thread is about now)
If you insist threads stay on topic, the mods might as well shut down Scoop now. However, I would contend it is very much related to whether a rock star is attractive.
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The fact it was appropriated is moot, the material component is that the swastika is symbolic of something with which no sane-minded individual should desire to associate.
Likewise, perhaps pressuring a woman to stay the night was normative behavior in the 1950's. It isn't anymore. Regardless of intention.
So let's step aside from the song for a moment and look at a similar situation from a different perspective: a woman is over at a man's house. Doesn't matter if the freakin' wind chill is 20 below zero, if the woman says she wants to leave (unless you live in rural Alaska) a real man gives her a warm coat and calls to make sure she got home OK. Research paper, music lessons, coffee, dinner, cocktails, back rubs, foreplay, a best of five Hungry Hungry Hippos contest doesn't matter.... whatever has happened prior and leading up to that point is irrelevant. She says she wants to go; he has no business standing in her way.
This.
Keep in mind that this song is from the same era that spawned this advertisement, and no one gave it a second thought back then:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/98/44/a0/9844a0c532d4e574762a4cf7797168b6.jpg)
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Fake News. (With apologies to R.A.S.) I was adamant in calling on MU to remove it this year. So far, I don't recall having hear Jump Around at any of the games so far this year, so unless my memory deceives, it would appear that I'm not alone on this hill.
To be clear, there is no illusion here that I was the cause - or even a factor - for the removal/hiatus, but I would be more than happy to take the blame.
They played Jump Around after MU won the game against Wisconsin.....not sure how I feel about it, cause it seems like a pretty fun troll :)
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Favorite: Oh Holy Night (4 part choral arrangement)
Worst: I don't remember the title, but the plot is a guy goes back to his small town home for Christmas, he runs into his HS ex at the grocery store, and they end up splitting a 6 pack in his car while reminiscing about old times.
Pet peeve: People singing Silent Night at the top of their lungs. It's supposed to be a lullaby.
Baby It's Cold Outside:
First, I never understood why it's considered a holiday song. There is zero reference Christmas. We know it's winter in a cold weather city, presumably New York City. It could be February for all we know.
As for the lyrics, the song illustrates a woman with no ability to make her own choice about sex. She can't say yes, or else her friends, family, and neighbors will shame her. But saying no is not respected by the male. The woman is basically powerless in the decision making process, and feels great conflict over what she should do. It's not about whether or not she wants to have sex. It's about weighing societal guilt versus the unrelenting advances of the man in the room.
Meanwhile, the man has no concern for the woman. He's only concerned with his own sexual desires, and decides to keep giving her drinks until she relents. He repeatedly prevents her from leaving, and the woman has no way of knowing if an attempt to leave will suddenly turn into a physically violent assault. So once again, the woman feels trapped and powerless to make a decision.
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Worst: I don't remember the title, but the plot is a guy goes back to his small town home for Christmas, he runs into his HS ex at the grocery store, and they end up splitting a 6 pack in his car while reminiscing about old times.
"Same Old Lang Syne" by Dan Folgelburg. Not really a Christmas song though.
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"Same Old Lang Syne" by Dan Folgelburg. Not really a Christmas song though.
Yes, that's it! Probably why I hate it, too. The song happens on Christmas Eve but has nothing to do with Christmas. Yet the all Christmas radio station plays it a ton.
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"Same Old Lang Syne" by Dan Folgelburg. Not really a Christmas song though.
Yes, it is. The story is set on Christmas Eve. And it's Fogelberg.
Jinx!
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A bunch of you cats must hate Smoove B too, aina?
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Geez, can't we just hear it for the playful song it is? But if we have to ban it, then please ban every rap song or country song having to do with rape/wife beating, misogyny, etc. Personally, I think people should just turn it off if the song offends them, but that's me.
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Geez, can't we just hear it for the playful song it is? But if we have to ban it, then please ban every rap song or country song having to do with rape/wife beating, misogyny, etc. Personally, I think people should just turn it off if the song offends them, but that's me.
Reductio ad absurdum.
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Worst Christmas song: Anti LGBTQ favorite "Deck the Halls", shocking in its bigotry. "Gay apparel"? Really? Literally disgusting.
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Worst Christmas song: Anti LGBTQ favorite "Deck the Halls", shocking in its bigotry. "Gay apparel"? Really? Literally disgusting.
Why would it be ant-iLGBTQ? It is talking about donning gay apparel.
I assume you know that actually means putting it on. What is anti-LGBTQ about that?
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Why would it be ant-iLGBTQ? It is talking about donning gay apparel.
I assume you know that actually means putting it on. What is anti-LGBTQ about that?
???? "Gay" apparel is to be distinguished from "straight" apparel? And we only don it when decking the halls and falalalling? I thought as a member of a class that is routinely marginalized you would be more sensitive. Hurtful.
And yes, I know that don means "putting something on". Are you acquainted with the phrase "putting someone on"?
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This:
The fact it was appropriated is moot, the material component is that the swastika is symbolic of something with which no sane-minded individual should desire to associate.
Likewise, perhaps pressuring a woman to stay the night was normative behavior in the 1950's. It isn't anymore. Regardless of intention.
So let's step aside from the song for a moment and look at a similar situation from a different perspective: a woman is over at a man's house. Doesn't matter if the freakin' wind chill is 20 below zero, if the woman says she wants to leave (unless you live in rural Alaska) a real man gives her a warm coat and calls to make sure she got home OK. Research paper, music lessons, coffee, dinner, cocktails, back rubs, foreplay, a best of five Hungry Hungry Hippos contest doesn't matter.... whatever has happened prior and leading up to that point is irrelevant. She says she wants to go; he has no business standing in her way.
And this:
Baby It's Cold Outside:
As for the lyrics, the song illustrates a woman with no ability to make her own choice about sex. She can't say yes, or else her friends, family, and neighbors will shame her. But saying no is not respected by the male. The woman is basically powerless in the decision making process, and feels great conflict over what she should do. It's not about whether or not she wants to have sex. It's about weighing societal guilt versus the unrelenting advances of the man in the room.
Meanwhile, the man has no concern for the woman. He's only concerned with his own sexual desires, and decides to keep giving her drinks until she relents. He repeatedly prevents her from leaving, and the woman has no way of knowing if an attempt to leave will suddenly turn into a physically violent assault. So once again, the woman feels trapped and powerless to make a decision.
The only defense of the song is trying to justify one's own youthful behavior to say "date rape is okay" when clearly what society once turned a blind eye to is no longer acceptable. And there it is...
[flash=200,200]In college we made drinks that tasted great, you couldn't tell much alcohol was in it, but that didn't mean some drug was in there. Girls and guys would get drunk drinking the punch, which tasted like punch but didn't have a date rape drug in it.
When you look around society and realize your youthful behavior would no longer be acceptable, that doesn't mean you should justify it, it means society is moving on and you can either get on board or be left behind. We all did things in our youth that would be seen in a different light today. And that's okay. But not realizing that the times are still and always will be a-changing, that's not.
This isn't some PC culture. It's about women having agency and control over their own bodies. It's about not forcing them into sex, whether by physical, chemical, or coercive means.
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ant-iLGBTQ?
Damn AAPL. Putting a lower-case "i" in front of a noun was one thing, now they're doing it to acronyms?!? I get it that they're very forward thinking, but methinks they took it a bit too far this time.
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Instead of just reading the words to the song and applying one's own context I suggest you actually watch the duet being performed. Different (archaic, I'll grant you) "rules" about the man's and woman's roles (I'll be the first to celebrate those changing) but given those parameters I don't ever see even a hint of a woman in danger. On the contrary, she seems very much in charge.
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Instead of just reading the words to the song and applying one's own context I suggest you actually watch the duet being performed.
Damn YouTube copyright rules police musta censored the video, so all y'all have to settle for a video of the audio. .
https://www.youtube.com/v/NauVZ8agPBY
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(Partially tongue in cheek).....is Santa Baby the opposite of Baby, It's Cold Outside? Woman is using her full agency to extract stuff from Santa.
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(Partially tongue in cheek).....is Santa Baby the opposite of Baby, It's Cold Outside? Woman is using her full agency to extract stuff from Santa.
Same ting wich Mommy Kissin Santa Claus.
That fat f%ck gets a lot of action. Plus he's got the old lady back waiting for the north pole, aina.
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(Partially tongue in cheek).....is Santa Baby the opposite of Baby, It's Cold Outside? Woman is using her full agency to extract stuff from Santa.
Extraction is the opposite of insertion.
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Same ting wich Mommy Kissin Santa Claus.
That fat f%ck gets a lot of action. Plus he's got the old lady back waiting for the north pole, aina.
You get it, I think Eng gets it too. There were plenty of predators around in the 1940s. Plenty around today. When the snowflakes turn something innocent into something horrific they just give the real bad guys cover. But self congratulatory outrage feels so good they can't resist.
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You get it, I think Eng gets it too. There were plenty of predators around in the 1940s. Plenty around today. When the snowflakes turn something innocent into something horrific they just give the real bad guys cover. But self congratulatory outrage feels so good they can't resist.
Oh I get it, Baby It's Cold Outside is an offensive song to some and can be a trigger for others who suffered some form of assault. If you want to listen to it that's cool, if you don't that's cool too. I'm never for "banning" something but I'm fine if private entities like radio stations decide they don't want to play it because they are making a business decision.
It's innocent in your life experience, which I'm fine with as well.
At the end of the day it's just something everyone wants to fight about because the "outrage culture" is alive and well on both sides of the political spectrum.
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https://www.youtube.com/v/CJB9GP5gyAw
That is awesome. My aunt and sister sent this to me this morning. Good stuff.
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Same ting wich Mommy Kissin Santa Claus.
That fat f%ck gets a lot of action. Plus he's got the old lady back waiting for the north pole, aina.
Atta boi, kin. Kan wee say boi heer witout pissin' sumwon off, hey?
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Watched a little of the SNL Christmas special (clips from old shows) tonite. I guess I should have felt guilty laughing at "Christmastime for the Jews" and "My Dick in a Box". I didn't.
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Watched a little of the SNL Christmas special (clips from old shows) tonite. I guess I should have felt guilty laughing at "Christmastime for the Jews" and "My Dick in a Box". I didn't.
Don’t forget Schweddy Balls
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Don’t forget Schweddy Balls
Don't confuse satire for sincerity. Baby its cold outside is not parody, its sincere....huge difference
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Don't confuse satire for sincerity. Baby its cold outside is not parody, its sincere....huge difference
Someone, somewhere is always outraged by something.
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As I have stated before...who is more annoying? The outraged, or those who are outraged to the outraged.
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As I have stated before...who is more annoying? The outraged, or those who are outraged to the outraged.
meh - seems like everyone wants to fight -- particularly this scoop group, this week
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As I have stated before...who is more annoying? The outraged, or those who are outraged to the outraged.
We have no sense of humor in this nation anymore. Self deprication is gone, as well as our ability to laugh without fear of upsetting someone, somewhere about something. Not good, in my opinion.
I had to deal with this one a few years ago.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sdut-painfully-awkward-rob-lowe-shy-bladders-2014nov05-htmlstory.html
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We have no sense of humor in this nation anymore. Self deprication is gone, as well as our ability to laugh without fear of upsetting someone, somewhere about something. Not good, in my opinion.
I had to deal with this one a few years ago.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sdut-painfully-awkward-rob-lowe-shy-bladders-2014nov05-htmlstory.html
True. Several years back, I was coming home from Singapore on a business trip, maybe 9 3/4 years after my passport was issued. Think I had a layover in Japan and then flew direct from there, but I could be mistaken. Anyway, when I got to customs at JFK, the guy looked at me, looked at the passport, looked at me, looked at the passport, looked at me, looked at the passport and finally said, "Wow, rough 10 years," with total deadpan face.
I thought it was pretty funny and had a good laugh. When I tell people that story now they assume I must've gotten angry and had some choice words for the guy.
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Variety did a very good write up on "Baby It's Cold outside" regarding it's history, how it foreshadowed a feminist awakening, and how women took power over their own sexual decisions from an overly oppressive society. Not to mention that the story line was never about the woman leaving... she was always going to stay.
Yes, you can argue the words sound in the third person as if maybe the man is putting too much pressure on the woman, but since we're granted the 4th person view, we know from the original song writers that she wanted to stay and was being fun/flirty.
https://variety.com/2018/music/news/baby-its-cold-outside-song-war-1203080834/
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OH!
And O'holy Night (Manheim Steamroller) and Carol of the Bells (Lindsey Stirling) are the best! Really like the Lindsey Stirling version of Carol of the Bells, finally heard it for the first time the other day.
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We have no sense of humor in this nation anymore. Self deprication is gone, as well as our ability to laugh without fear of upsetting someone, somewhere about something. Not good, in my opinion.
When people trot out this tired (and provably false) complaint, what they're usually saying is "it's not fair that people will criticize me to telling mean-spirited racist/sexist/ethnic/ablist jokes."
And they're also displaying themselves as oafs trapped in middle school because for them sense of humor = mocking others they view as inferior.
No, excuse me while I go not laugh at some totally unfunny episodes of "Always Sunny" and "Bojack Horseman."
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When people trot out this tired (and provably false) complaint, what they're usually saying is "it's not fair that people will criticize me to telling mean-spirited racist/sexist/ethnic/ablist jokes."
And they're also displaying themselves as oafs trapped in middle school because for them sense of humor = mocking others they view as inferior.
No, excuse me while I go not laugh at some totally unfunny episodes of "Always Sunny" and "Bojack Horseman."
I beg to differ on this. In true racist/sexist/ethnic/ablist societies, humor is often the only way to express thoughts about such topics and to break down the barriers of racism/sexism/ethnicity. So it can be a tool of hatred but it can be a tool of communication and embracing differences as well. It's only as the society moves towards a post racist/sexist/ethnic/ablist one that people look back and often decries that humor as racist/sexist/ethnic/ablist. If anything, this proves we've come far as a society and even if a new balance needs to be found, we should not shed our ability to use humor and pop culture in bridging the gap between disparate groups.
That balance is obviously key though. Rap songs about rape, too far. Baby it's Cold Outside? I think we will survive if radio stations continue to play it.
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True. Several years back, I was coming home from Singapore on a business trip, maybe 9 3/4 years after my passport was issued. Think I had a layover in Japan and then flew direct from there, but I could be mistaken. Anyway, when I got to customs at JFK, the guy looked at me, looked at the passport, looked at me, looked at the passport, looked at me, looked at the passport and finally said, "Wow, rough 10 years," with total deadpan face.
I thought it was pretty funny and had a good laugh. When I tell people that story now they assume I must've gotten angry and had some choice words for the guy.
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Good on you to Play along and go with it. That says a lot about you in a good way!!
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When people trot out this tired (and provably false) complaint, what they're usually saying is "it's not fair that people will criticize me to telling mean-spirited racist/sexist/ethnic/ablist jokes."
And they're also displaying themselves as oafs trapped in middle school because for them sense of humor = mocking others they view as inferior.
No, excuse me while I go not laugh at some totally unfunny episodes of "Always Sunny" and "Bojack Horseman."
Ask some comedians of the last two weeks, four come to mind, how they feel about this. Jerry Seinfeld’s opinion (a fifth) is also pretty good. Honestly, i’m Going with their opinion on the comedy situation... no offense.
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No, excuse me while I go not laugh at some totally unfunny episodes of "Always Sunny" and "Bojack Horseman."
Right? I mean, really... WTF is up with the last two seasons of Bojack?
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I'm not going to read 7 pages but just want to make sure everyone knows about the new lil jon xmas classic in case it hasn't been brought up. You're welcome.
https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/lil-jon-gets-into-the-holiday-spirit-on-all-i-really-want-for-christmas-new-song.1981425.html
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I'm not going to read 7 pages but just want to make sure everyone knows about the new lil jon xmas classic in case it hasn't been brought up. You're welcome.
https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/lil-jon-gets-into-the-holiday-spirit-on-all-i-really-want-for-christmas-new-song.1981425.html
I wonder if Dave Chappelle gets a cut of everything Lil Jon makes now.
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The fact it was appropriated is moot, the material component is that the swastika is symbolic of something with which no sane-minded individual should desire to associate.
Typical ignorant white guy.
That ideograph is an ancient and sacred symbol within Japanese Buddhism. The Manji represents the intersect of heaven and earth as well as light and dark.
In one form the Manji symbolizes strength and intellect while in the other depicts infinite mercy. The Manji is central to Zen.
Only a crude, obtuse Philistine from the American Middle West could be so uncouth. In fact, I would say such a person is little more than an insufferable, insensitive racist since that symbol is a powerful construct in the Japanese cultural belief system.
To state that no sane-minded individual should ever desire to associate with such a symbol epitomizes the intolerance, callowness, and sciolism of a close-minded, ill-informed Caucasian.
Well done. Racist.
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So..... Deck the Halls anyone? I saw three ships?
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I beg to differ on this. In true racist/sexist/ethnic/ablist societies, humor is often the only way to express thoughts about such topics and to break down the barriers of racism/sexism/ethnicity. So it can be a tool of hatred but it can be a tool of communication and embracing differences as well. It's only as the society moves towards a post racist/sexist/ethnic/ablist one that people look back and often decries that humor as racist/sexist/ethnic/ablist. If anything, this proves we've come far as a society and even if a new balance needs to be found, we should not shed our ability to use humor and pop culture in bridging the gap between disparate groups.
That balance is obviously key though. Rap songs about rape, too far. Baby it's Cold Outside? I think we will survive if radio stations continue to play it.
+1000
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I beg to differ on this. In true racist/sexist/ethnic/ablist societies, humor is often the only way to express thoughts about such topics and to break down the barriers of racism/sexism/ethnicity. So it can be a tool of hatred but it can be a tool of communication and embracing differences as well. It's only as the society moves towards a post racist/sexist/ethnic/ablist one that people look back and often decries that humor as racist/sexist/ethnic/ablist. If anything, this proves we've come far as a society and even if a new balance needs to be found, we should not shed our ability to use humor and pop culture in bridging the gap between disparate groups.
Straw man. Nobody is suggesting this. And there's loads of great humor out there exploring issues of race and gender.
That balance is obviously key though. Rap songs about rape, too far. Baby it's Cold Outside? I think we will survive if radio stations continue to play it.
So, what you're doing here is deeming that your judgment of what's offensive (rap songs about rape) and not (Baby it's Cold Outside) should be the standard everyone else should live by. What makes you the arbiter?
Here's a crazy thought .... how about letting people set their own standards for what they find offensive or not offensive? You think "Baby it's Cold Outside" is a cute song about flirtation or a subtle treatise on a woman taking agency? Cool. Play it to your heart's content. But stop telling others that they can't interpret it another way.
And can you guys stop with the false narrative here not being allowed to play the song (or tel a joke, etc.)? Nobody is demanding censorship or calling for record burnings. No radio station is pulling it from the rotation except by its own volition.
People are having a conversation about it. God forbid.
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Typical ignorant white guy.
That ideograph is an ancient and sacred symbol within Japanese Buddhism. The Manji represents the intersect of heaven and earth as well as light and dark.
In one form the Manji symbolizes strength and intellect while in the other depicts infinite mercy. The Manji is central to Zen.
Only a crude, obtuse Philistine from the American Middle West could be so uncouth. In fact, I would say such a person is little more than an insufferable, insensitive racist since that symbol is a powerful construct in the Japanese cultural belief system.
To state that no sane-minded individual should ever desire to associate with such a symbol epitomizes the intolerance, callowness, and sciolism of a close-minded, ill-informed Caucasian.
Well done. Racist.
Yeah, because most Japanese are walking around sporting the Manji these days.
(You still need to bone up on your Webster’s, but I am quite impressed with your Wikipedia skillz, however.)
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The Rebel Jesus, Jackson Browne.
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Yeah, because most Japanese are walking around sporting the Manji these days.
(You still need to bone up on your Webster’s, but I am quite impressed with your Wikipedia skillz, however.)
To be fair, Scoop had a real dearth of pro-swastika posts up 'til now.
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To be fair, Scoop had a real dearth of pro-swastika posts up 'til now.
Scoop is one of the first anti-Nazi sports message boards.
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Scoop is one of the first anti-Nazi sports message boards.
Totally unfair. I'm in favor of posters being able to freely express their pro-Nazi sentiments.
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Straw man. Nobody is suggesting this. And there's loads of great humor out there exploring issues of race and gender.
False. This is not a straw man because many people are not just discussing the merits and meaning of the song, they are actively agreeing it should not be played. They are also taking offense at jokes that are years or decades old and throwing them back at the purveyors of those jokes as if it is some new offense rather than within the context of their time.
So, what you're doing here is deeming that your judgment of what's offensive (rap songs about rape) and not (Baby it's Cold Outside) should be the standard everyone else should live by. What makes you the arbiter?
Here's a crazy thought .... how about letting people set their own standards for what they find offensive or not offensive? You think "Baby it's Cold Outside" is a cute song about flirtation or a subtle treatise on a woman taking agency? Cool. Play it to your heart's content. But stop telling others that they can't interpret it another way.
And can you guys stop with the false narrative here not being allowed to play the song (or tel a joke, etc.)? Nobody is demanding censorship or calling for record burnings. No radio station is pulling it from the rotation except by its own volition.
People are having a conversation about it. God forbid.
Isn't this what we're doing? Having a conversation about it? My point of view is that the commentary of "Baby It's Cold Outside" being a part of rape culture is absurd. As you say, I'm only giving my point of view, not forcing anyone to listen to it.
While many of us here are stating our thoughts on the song and disappointment that it is being pulled from radio stations, those who dislike the song are actively trying to prevent others from being able to hear it on the radio. Who's side is the extreme one here?
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Baby It’s Cold Outside
not sure this is really a Christmas song, but one of the corniest i've heard. read the full lyrics and it seems like the dude's(i guess he's a respected song writer) had a few too many eggnogs or maybe just 'nogs.
also, we can't keep taking things out of context-the 1940's ain't 2018. as we had in an earlier thread, certain words that were acceptable "in their day" could get the chit knocked outta ya today. try asking someone if they wanna smoke a "cute one"
" cute one, a division of the Schaeffler Group. Cigarette, known as a cute one in colloquial British "
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Yeah, because most Japanese are walking around sporting the Manji these days.
(You still need to bone up on your Webster’s, but I am quite impressed with your Wikipedia skillz, however.)
This has got to be one of the top 5 greatest Scoop 'Owns' ever....
- playful banter for a couple of posts? Check
- antagonizes for a few pages? Check
- set trap for 'intellectual high ground'? Check
- disarms with a single line of reality? Check Mate
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False. This is not a straw man because many people are not just discussing the merits and meaning of the song, they are actively agreeing it should not be played. They are also taking offense at jokes that are years or decades old and throwing them back at the purveyors of those jokes as if it is some new offense rather than within the context of their time.
Great. But this isn't at all what you wrote.
You wrote: "We should not shed our ability to use humor and pop culture in bridging the gap between disparate groups."
Again, nobody is doing this or suggesting it should be done. In fact, there's tons of great comedy and pop culture out there that addresses issues like race, gender, etc.
While many of us here are stating our thoughts on the song and disappointment that it is being pulled from radio stations, those who dislike the song are actively trying to prevent others from being able to hear it on the radio. Who's side is the extreme one here?
Who's doing this? Some radio stations are choosing not to play it. That's their right as a business. Nobody is stopping you from listening to it.
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Isn't this what we're doing? Having a conversation about it? My point of view is that the commentary of "Baby It's Cold Outside" being a part of rape culture is absurd. As you say, I'm only giving my point of view, not forcing anyone to listen to it.
While many of us here are stating our thoughts on the song and disappointment that it is being pulled from radio stations, those who dislike the song are actively trying to prevent others from being able to hear it on the radio. Who's side is the extreme one here?
My feelings, too.
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Who's doing this? Some radio stations are choosing not to play it. That's their right as a business. Nobody is stopping you from listening to it.
There are still people in this country, quite a few actually, that don't know how spotify works, don't have an internet connection, to old to figure that stuff out, that listen to the radio or watch TV with an antenna.
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There are still people in this country, quite a few actually, that don't know how spotify works, don't have an internet connection, to old to figure that stuff out, that listen to the radio or watch TV with an antenna.
So what are you saying? That if someone, somewhere wants to listen to a particular song that a radio station should play it?
I mean, it is their choice what music they decide to play right?
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So what are you saying? That if someone, somewhere wants to listen to a particular song that a radio station should play it?
I mean, it is their choice what music they decide to play right?
Not saying that. I am saying, however, that there are people out there that rely on information, entertainment, news from a source they do not control. It is perfectly within the radio station's right not to play it. Also perfectly within the rights for normal Americans to raise a fit, call the radio station and no longer listen to that radio station to harm their advertising streams.
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Not saying that. I am saying, however, that there are people out there that rely on information, entertainment, news from a source they do not control. It is perfectly within the radio station's right not to play it. Also perfectly within the rights for normal Americans to raise a fit, call the radio station and no longer listen to that radio station to harm their advertising streams.
Was anyone suggesting otherwise?
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what's weird is, there are so many songs that radio stations just won't play period. but when they play one a few times and stop due to 3 people being offended, it makes all the news. curious how many other songs this happens to and no one really pays attention nor cares.
what's next? a station has to play a certain song if someone calls and if you don't play such and such song, you must be a fill in the blank phobe, biggot, misogynist, or whatever the flavor of the day is?
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Lost in all of this debate is the celebration of Christ's birth.
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what's weird is, there are so many songs that radio stations just won't play period. but when they play one a few times and stop due to 3 people being offended, it makes all the news. curious how many other songs this happens to and no one really pays attention nor cares.
what's next? a station has to play a certain song if someone calls and if you don't play such and such song, you must be a fill in the blank phobe, biggot, misogynist, or whatever the flavor of the day is?
Huh? I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here.
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what's weird is, there are so many songs that radio stations just won't play period. but when they play one a few times and stop due to 3 people being offended, it makes all the news. curious how many other songs this happens to and no one really pays attention nor cares.
what's next? a station has to play a certain song if someone calls and if you don't play such and such song, you must be a fill in the blank phobe, biggot, misogynist, or whatever the flavor of the day is?
This isn't new. Remember when that angry mom protested 'Married with Children'? Tipper Gore and her crusade? People get offended. Always have. Standards evolve. Always have. Lucy and Ricky had twin beds. Constant tension. What puzzles me is why we aren't trying to become better. Why we aren't trying to be kinder or gentler. More Christ-like.
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So what are you saying? That if someone, somewhere wants to listen to a particular song that a radio station should play it?
I love this idea. I'm going to use it when I call every radio station in Milwaukee demanding they play "F*** Christmas" by Fear.
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I love this idea. I'm going to use it when I call every radio station in Milwaukee demanding they play "F*** Christmas" by Fear.
I love living in the city is the only fear song still worth listening to. Though given that Flea was in Fear some radio station would probably do it as a night of showing where mainstream artists came from
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I love living in the city is the only fear song still worth listening to. Though given that Flea was in Fear some radio station would probably do it as a night of showing where mainstream artists came from
I was strictly looking at it from the explitive in a Christmas song seasonal aspect. 51 other weeks of the year I'd lean towards Dead Kennedys' Nazi Punks... as my request.
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I love living in the city is the only fear song still worth listening to. Though given that Flea was in Fear some radio station would probably do it as a night of showing where mainstream artists came from
Bite your tongue. "Let's Have a War" and "I Don't Care About You" are SoCal punk classics.
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I was strictly looking at it from the explitive in a Christmas song seasonal aspect. 51 other weeks of the year I'd lean towards Dead Kennedys' Nazi Punks... as my request.
Fair enough. I'd lean a bit less hardcore and ask for some naked raygun the other 51 weeks.
Bite your tongue. "Let's Have a War" and "I Don't Care About You" are SoCal punk classics.
Touché, I have that album on vinyl I'll need to dust it off when I'm home for the holidays because clearly I've forgotten some of it
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The only Christmas album I own.
(https://i.ibb.co/Z8KvxM4/IMG-20181216-163312.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6PbGFW9)
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Lost in all of this debate is the celebration of Christ's birth.
Appearing in a nativity scene any day now in the public square. ;)
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Curse the darkness, light a candle.
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Baby It’s Cold outside #2 digital song download, #10 overall download.
As my darling wife said, good frisky fun.
I love that woman!!
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Lost in all of this debate is the celebration of Christ's birth.
Jewish boy makes good!
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Baby It’s Cold outside #2 digital song download, #10 overall download.
As my darling wife said, good frisky fun.
I love that woman!!
Who downloads music anymore?
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Who downloads music anymore?
Says the guy with an 8 track player in his truck.
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The real question is, do you listen to "Baby It's Cold Outside" while eating a gingerbread man?
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There's a generational issue here. A long, long time ago (with apologies to Don McLean) when I started dating, that kind of flirting was common and, yes, fun. It's a dance of delicacy, where the girl says enough to let the boy know she's interested but not easy, and the boy says things that are flattering or caring, to get the girl to go out with him. You can consider the lyrics to be some guy pressuring a woman to do something she doesn't want to, or you can consider it a historic mating ritual. Times were different then. The boys asked out the girls, dates were more formal affairs, with an actual agenda like going to the movies or a concert and a kiss goodnight at the door, not "hanging out" or "hooking up" like my kids do.
There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time. I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened.
So I also choose to consider "Baby it's cold outside" as a fun and flirty song representative of a courtship in the 1940's. Most of my Christmas favorites come from my youth, like "'Twas the night before Christmas," and my dad always used to play a song that went, "Let's forget about tomorrow 'cause tomorrow never comes" on Christmas Eve, which just aggravated our anticipation for Christmas morning. From the modern era: Best: "My Grown-Up Christmas List." Worst: "Grandma got run over by a reindeer."
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There's a generational issue here. A long, long time ago (with apologies to Don McLean) when I started dating, that kind of flirting was common and, yes, fun. It's a dance of delicacy, where the girl says enough to let the boy know she's interested but not easy, and the boy says things that are flattering or caring, to get the girl to go out with him. You can consider the lyrics to be some guy pressuring a woman to do something she doesn't want to, or you can consider it a historic mating ritual. Times were different then. The boys asked out the girls, dates were more formal affairs, with an actual agenda like going to the movies or a concert and a kiss goodnight at the door, not "hanging out" or "hooking up" like my kids do.
I agree with this. Keeping the song in historical context is important.
There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time. I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened.
Yeah this is a bit of a leap. Columbus' actions were brave certainly, and yeah his more abhorrent actions should be viewed in the context of time, but does that mean that a national holiday in his recognition is still appropriate?
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Says the guy with an 8 track player in his truck. van
(http://bestride.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Van-Pinstrping.jpg)
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There's a generational issue here. A long, long time ago (with apologies to Don McLean) when I started dating, that kind of flirting was common and, yes, fun. It's a dance of delicacy, where the girl says enough to let the boy know she's interested but not easy, and the boy says things that are flattering or caring, to get the girl to go out with him. You can consider the lyrics to be some guy pressuring a woman to do something she doesn't want to, or you can consider it a historic mating ritual. Times were different then. The boys asked out the girls, dates were more formal affairs, with an actual agenda like going to the movies or a concert and a kiss goodnight at the door, not "hanging out" or "hooking up" like my kids do.
There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time. I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened.
So I also choose to consider "Baby it's cold outside" as a fun and flirty song representative of a courtship in the 1940's. Most of my Christmas favorites come from my youth, like "'Twas the night before Christmas," and my dad always used to play a song that went, "Let's forget about tomorrow 'cause tomorrow never comes" on Christmas Eve, which just aggravated our anticipation for Christmas morning. From the modern era: Best: "My Grown-Up Christmas List." Worst: "Grandma got run over by a reindeer."
Mom,
This is very well said, exactly what I was trying to (though not as artfully) point out. Context matters. Maybe now that it's also been pointed out by a woman of our generation just how innocent that song was some of the "it's an ode to date rape" nonsense can be put to bed. Maybe even those who need to feel superior defending imaginary victims will save their outrage for real ones.
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There's a generational issue here. A long, long time ago (with apologies to Don McLean) when I started dating, that kind of flirting was common and, yes, fun. It's a dance of delicacy, where the girl says enough to let the boy know she's interested but not easy, and the boy says things that are flattering or caring, to get the girl to go out with him. You can consider the lyrics to be some guy pressuring a woman to do something she doesn't want to, or you can consider it a historic mating ritual. Times were different then. The boys asked out the girls, dates were more formal affairs, with an actual agenda like going to the movies or a concert and a kiss goodnight at the door, not "hanging out" or "hooking up" like my kids do.
There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time. I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened.
So I also choose to consider "Baby it's cold outside" as a fun and flirty song representative of a courtship in the 1940's. Most of my Christmas favorites come from my youth, like "'Twas the night before Christmas," and my dad always used to play a song that went, "Let's forget about tomorrow 'cause tomorrow never comes" on Christmas Eve, which just aggravated our anticipation for Christmas morning. From the modern era: Best: "My Grown-Up Christmas List." Worst: "Grandma got run over by a reindeer."
There no doubt a time when, in historical context, blackface was relatively harmless in comparison to the other racial injustices and prejudices occurring in this country, and totally fit with the moral and ethical standards of the day.
Should we continue in 2018 to judge it by the moral and ethical standards of the 19th century?
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There no doubt a time when, in historical context, blackface was relatively harmless in comparison to the other racial injustices and prejudices occurring in this country, and totally fit with the moral and ethical standards of the day.
Should we continue in 2018 to judge it by the moral and ethical standards of the 19th century?
So how does a racial injustice (minor or otherwise) from 150 years ago compare with innocent flirting 50 years ago? One was always wrong, the other never was.
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So how does a racial injustice (minor or otherwise) from 150 years ago compare with innocent flirting 50 years ago? One was always wrong, the other never was.
First, I would suggest that by the morals and ethics of the 19th century, when blackface began, it was viewed neither as wrong or a racial injustice. It was viewed as a way for white actors to portray black characters (often as caricatures, to be sure).
Second, innocent flirting is how you choose to interpret the song. That's fine. You're free to that interpretation. I've never criticized that interpretation by you or anyone else here.
But many others have a different interpretation, one that is no less valid than yours and to which they're equally entitled.
Except in your mind, because only your take matters, it seems. Others are kooky and dangerous.
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Yeah this is a bit of a leap. Columbus' actions were brave certainly, and yeah his more abhorrent actions should be viewed in the context of time, but does that mean that a national holiday in his recognition is still appropriate?
That's not what I was getting at. National Holidays do change over time. When I was a kid we celebrated both Lincoln and Washington' s birthday in February until some genius had the idea to combine them into a single Monday holiday which to me meant we only got one day off instead of two. However, we added a day back when we started to celebrate the birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr; a holiday that would have been unthinkable in the 1970s.
So no, I don't think we need to have a national "Columbus day" holiday - but I also don't think schools should teach children that "Columbus was a bad man (Which is something my colleague's daughter brought home from school last fall). He did some bad things, things we would hopefully never do today. Maybe we turn it into Explorer's day, and we can celebrate everyone who set out for new frontiers, from Vespucci to Davy Crockett to Neil Armstrong. Times change, holidays should as well.
And because blackface was popular back in the day, Pakuni, doesn't mean it is a correct thing to do now. And we don't have to even admit it was a correct thing to do back then. It wasn't. But that also doesn't always mean that the people who did it were bad people. Or maybe they were, but they were not generally recognized as so by (who they considered) their peers.
This doesn't only apply to bad things - I grew up writing in cursive script and using proper spelling, grammar and punctuation. Today we shorten words like "gr8" to fit them into limited character fields, and my kids can't read my grocery lists. Times change. Adapt or become extinct.
Back to Christmas Carols, though - I really really hate "Jingle Bell Rock." It's not even rock, fer chrissakes!
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Second, innocent flirting is how you choose to interpret the song. That's fine. You're free to that interpretation. I've never criticized that interpretation by you or anyone else here.
But many others have a different interpretation, one that is no less valid than yours and to which they're equally entitled.
Except in your mind, because only your take matters, it seems. Others are kooky and dangerous.
Sorry, interpretations that ignore context are aren't just alternative interpretations - they're inferior ones, too.
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There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time. I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened.
They didn't believe that. Humans have known the world was round for over 2,000 years and the works of Aristotle referred to it. It was common knowledge by Columbus' time. The only reason people didn't go that way was because they didn't know North America was there and they thought it was too far to go to Asia & travelers would run out of supplies.
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There's a generational issue here. A long, long time ago (with apologies to Don McLean) when I started dating, that kind of flirting was common and, yes, fun. It's a dance of delicacy, where the girl says enough to let the boy know she's interested but not easy, and the boy says things that are flattering or caring, to get the girl to go out with him. You can consider the lyrics to be some guy pressuring a woman to do something she doesn't want to, or you can consider it a historic mating ritual. Times were different then. The boys asked out the girls, dates were more formal affairs, with an actual agenda like going to the movies or a concert and a kiss goodnight at the door, not "hanging out" or "hooking up" like my kids do.
There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time. I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened.
So I also choose to consider "Baby it's cold outside" as a fun and flirty song representative of a courtship in the 1940's. Most of my Christmas favorites come from my youth, like "'Twas the night before Christmas," and my dad always used to play a song that went, "Let's forget about tomorrow 'cause tomorrow never comes" on Christmas Eve, which just aggravated our anticipation for Christmas morning. From the modern era: Best: "My Grown-Up Christmas List." Worst: "Grandma got run over by a reindeer."
Hi Chicos. ;D
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Who downloads music anymore?
Millions upon millions of people.
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There no doubt a time when, in historical context, blackface was relatively harmless in comparison to the other racial injustices and prejudices occurring in this country, and totally fit with the moral and ethical standards of the day.
Should we continue in 2018 to judge it by the moral and ethical standards of the 19th century?
Intent matters. Timing matters.
The song is not about date rape, it is absurd to suggest so. I’m glad the generation fromwhich the song came about is pushing back to show how silly this entire nonsense is.
Mom, great response and agree completely.
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https://www.gq.com/story/the-baby-its-cold-outside-discourse-is-boring-as-hell (https://www.gq.com/story/the-baby-its-cold-outside-discourse-is-boring-as-hell)
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https://www.gq.com/story/the-baby-its-cold-outside-discourse-is-boring-as-hell (https://www.gq.com/story/the-baby-its-cold-outside-discourse-is-boring-as-hell)
Yeah that's really a good take. This debate is so tiresome.
It's not a "date rape song," nor is it some feminist statement. It's a fun little duet with silly lyrics. No more, no less.
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There's a generational issue here. A long, long time ago (with apologies to Don McLean) when I started dating, that kind of flirting was common and, yes, fun. It's a dance of delicacy, where the girl says enough to let the boy know she's interested but not easy, and the boy says things that are flattering or caring, to get the girl to go out with him. You can consider the lyrics to be some guy pressuring a woman to do something she doesn't want to, or you can consider it a historic mating ritual. Times were different then. The boys asked out the girls, dates were more formal affairs, with an actual agenda like going to the movies or a concert and a kiss goodnight at the door, not "hanging out" or "hooking up" like my kids do.
There are so many historical events that don't stand up to the test of time - we may revile Columbus for his rape and genocide of the West Indies, yet from a historical standpoint he had the courage to get into a boat and sail across a stretch of sea when many people at that time believed he would simply fall off of into nothingness - quite an accomplishment for the time. I firmly believe that we should not use today's moral and ethical standards against things that happened in history - you need to compare those actions to the moral and ethical standards at the time they happened.
So I also choose to consider "Baby it's cold outside" as a fun and flirty song representative of a courtship in the 1940's. Most of my Christmas favorites come from my youth, like "'Twas the night before Christmas," and my dad always used to play a song that went, "Let's forget about tomorrow 'cause tomorrow never comes" on Christmas Eve, which just aggravated our anticipation for Christmas morning. From the modern era: Best: "My Grown-Up Christmas List." Worst: "Grandma got run over by a reindeer."
Rolling Stone just wrote about this song. An interesting read.
‘Baby, It’s Cold Outside’: A Brief History of the Holiday Song Controversy
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/baby-its-cold-outside-controversy-holiday-song-history-768183/
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Not song-related, but it is Christmas-related:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/midwest/ct-wisconsin-naked-man-20181221-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/midwest/ct-wisconsin-naked-man-20181221-story.html)
MU82, what were you in town for?
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Hi Chicos. ;D
I laughed. Not me, but definitely laughed at your response.
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Bump. 'Tis the season
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Bump. 'Tis the season
Ok, without rehashing this whole thread:
Some good ones: "What Christmas Means to Me" by Stevie Wonder, “Christmas in Killarney" by Bing Crosby, “Cool Yule” and “Winter Wonderland” by Louis Armstrong, “The Christmas Song” by Nat King Cole, most any version of “Carol of the Bells,” “White Christmas” by Otis Redding, “Frosty the Snowman” by Jackson 5, "Linus and Lucy" by Vince Guaraldi, “Run Rudolph Run” by Chuck Berry, “Father Christmas” by the Kinks, “Happy Holiday” by Andy Williams. “You’re A Mean One, Mr. Grinch” remains an unparalleled diss track.
Yes, it is entirely overplayed, but “All I Want for Christmas Is You” is still a bop and hearing it on the radio really ushers in the season.
Worst: That “Christmas Shoes” song, “Wonderful Christmastime” by Paul McCartney, "Do They Know It's Christmas?," “Last Christmas” by Wham!, “Santa Baby” (any version), the Chipmunks’ songs, “Hallelujah” by Pentatonix (not a Christmas song!), “Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer”
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Mr. Hankey the Christmas Poo.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41xH4JQVpOL._SY355_.jpg)
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Ok, without rehashing this whole thread:
Some good ones: "What Christmas Means to Me" by Stevie Wonder, “Christmas in Killarney" by Bing Crosby, “Cool Yule” and “Winter Wonderland” by Louis Armstrong, “The Christmas Song” by Nat King Cole, most any version of “Carol of the Bells,” “White Christmas” by Otis Redding, “Frosty the Snowman” by Jackson 5, "Linus and Lucy" by Vince Guaraldi, “Run Rudolph Run” by Chuck Berry, “Father Christmas” by the Kinks, “Happy Holiday” by Andy Williams. “You’re A Mean One, Mr. Grinch” remains an unparalleled diss track.
Yes, it is entirely overplayed, but “All I Want for Christmas Is You” is still a bop and hearing it on the radio really ushers in the season.
Worst: That “Christmas Shoes” song, “Wonderful Christmastime” by Paul McCartney, "Do They Know It's Christmas?," “Last Christmas” by Wham!, “Santa Baby” (any version), the Chipmunks’ songs, “Hallelujah” by Pentatonix (not a Christmas song!), “Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer”
Last Christmas by Wham! is a banger.
Anything by the Ronnettes is 🔥
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What is this fresh hell from Maroon 5?
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Mr. Hankey the Christmas Poo.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41xH4JQVpOL._SY355_.jpg)
Also good is Christmas time in Hell.
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Last Christmas by Wham! is a banger.
(http://media.giphy.com/media/PjyAbY5jWA4HBS9p4x/giphy.gif)
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My favorite Christmas song. Hands down.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e4YhqE4r21I
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5Z-HpHH9g
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Reliant Aj's Christmas album came up on Spotify today. There's one catchy song but for the most parts pop punk and traditional Christmas music are a horrendous horrendous mix.
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"Santa Baby" is the worst Christmas song by definition because actually falls on the opposite end of the spectrum... Christmas is about giving, not receiving. (Jolly Old St. Nicolas is not analogous because the voice a) is actually telling what to give to the other children first and b) shows no expectations for herself in suggesting only what he "thinks is right".)
"Baby It's Cold Outside" is the worst holiday song. If this isn't self-explanatory, perhaps you can team up with Nassar or Cosby to perform the duet at your club's holiday show this year.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2zzpgn2i9k
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFLaUL8NG9Y
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Bump
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Bump
Anybody heard Angel Without Wings/Merry Christmas by The Mahones? It's a great follow up to Fairytale of New York on any playlist
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"Baby It's Cold Outside" is the worst holiday song. If this isn't self-explanatory, perhaps you can team up with Nassar or Cosby to perform the duet at your club's holiday show this year.
Technically, it's a winter song, not a holiday song. No mention of any holidays, religious or no.
I wonder how many people are more offended by songs that talk about baby Jesus than this one.
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Technically, it's a winter song, not a holiday song. No mention of any holidays, religious or no.
I wonder how many people are more offended by songs that talk about baby Jesus than this one.
And an actual husband & wife co-wrote the song.
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Worst Christmas Song: any played before Dec 11th
I'll take all slings and arrows but I stand by it. A full month+ of Christmas music is torturous
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Worst Christmas Song: any played before Dec 11th
I'll take all slings and arrows but I stand by it. A full month+ of Christmas music is torturous
Where'd you get the arbitrary Dec 11?
I personally work my way in. The more rock n roll stuff after thanksgiving and then move into the super traditional stuff as the month moves on.
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"Save Room in the Lifeboat for Me"
"What Would You Do If Jesus Came to Your House Tonight?"
Hey?
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Where'd you get the arbitrary Dec 11?
I personally work my way in. The more rock n roll stuff after thanksgiving and then move into the super traditional stuff as the month moves on.
2 weeks before Christmas itself. I'm good with no more than a week of it, but I was trying to be festive.
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Worst Christmas Song: any played before Dec 11th
I'll take all slings and arrows but I stand by it. A full month+ of Christmas music is torturous
Curious as to who is forcing you to listen?
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Worst:
Do They Know Its Christmas?
Happy Christmas (War is Over)
Wonderful Christmastime
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Damn, you just crushed 3 of my favorites.
Non pop music, give me O Holy Night with a quality tenor or soprano.
Any decent choir/vocal group doing Night of Silence/Silent Night.
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Curious as to who is forcing you to listen?
Wife, family, stores, etc... Its easy enough to avoid in the car, but elsewhere not so much.
I'm not a Scrooge and I love Christmas and the holiday season. But the trend to make it 6 weeks long is a bit much for me all around.
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https://www.yfbspod.com/christmas-music-sucks
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https://www.yfbspod.com/christmas-music-sucks-part-two
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My All Time Favorite . Mele Kalikimaka.
The Hawaiian Way to Say Merry Christmas
Bing Crosby/Andrews Sisters
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hEvGKUXW0iI
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Good call HC. One of my favorites
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My All Time Favorite . Mele Kalikimaka.
The Hawaiian Way to Say Merry Christmas
Bing Crosby
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hEvGKUXW0iI
Especially when I play it while day dreaming about a pool in my backyard.
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My All Time Favorite . Mele Kalikimaka.
The Hawaiian Way to Say Merry Christmas
Bing Crosby/Andrews Sisters
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hEvGKUXW0iI
This video is better:
https://youtu.be/8ov8ycMOK8g
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A search did not show this one so apologies if it is somewhere in the 11 pages (and no, I am not going to hunt for it):
Dogs barking/"singing" Jingle Bells. My brother loved playing it, but my sister- in- law and nieces hated it. They got together and demanded that there be a clearly established limit to the number of times he could play it.
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A search did not show this one so apologies if it is somewhere in the 11 pages (and no, I am not going to hunt for it):
Dogs barking/"singing" Jingle Bells. My brother loved playing it, but my sister- in- law and nieces hated it. They got together and demanded that there be a clearly established limit to the number of times he could play it.
Here You Go
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xam01uaj6Vg
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For metal fans, a former employee of mine has been trying tp break into the music business for awhile and has developed a pretty sizeable youtube following. He's done a few small tours and has been the local opening act for a few big artists. I have to be in the mood for metal personally but he has a powerful voice and recently did a pretty knockout cover of O Come O Come Emmanuel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIAdNHHo2I0
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For metal fans, a former employee of mine has been trying tp break into the music business for awhile and has developed a pretty sizeable youtube following. He's done a few small tours and has been the local opening act for a few big artists. I have to be in the mood for metal personally but he has a powerful voice and recently did a pretty knockout cover of O Come O Come Emmanuel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIAdNHHo2I0
Metals not my jam at all but I will admit this is well done
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My favorite Christmas song changes week to week. This week it is Mary's Boy Child by Harry Belafonte.
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I Just Go Nuts at Christmas by Yogi Yorgesson
This Is a Swedish Favorite of mine . A guy who had to much Acquavit at a Saint Lucia event I went a few years ago got up on the Stage and sung it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rNNpVYwID3I
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Do You Hear What I Hear is one of my favorites.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iClPq-59xos
The lyricist and composer were both commissioned to write a B-track song (the flip side of an old 45 rpm disc) for Christmas in late summer 1962. It was composed at the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Here is some of the history surrounding the song. Indeed a plea for people to pray for peace everywhere.
https://historybecauseitshere.weebly.com/do-you-hear-what-i-hear.html
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Good King Wenceslas is not a Christmas song. It is about the Feast of Steven. ;)
It is, but is celebrated on Dec. 26, so close enough.
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Favorites:
Fairytale of New York - The Pogues
Father Christmas - The Kinks
Christmas Wrapping - The Waitresses
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Favorites:
Fairytale of New York - The Pogues
Father Christmas - The Kinks
Christmas Wrapping - The Waitresses
Bad Religion has a whole Christmas album. It might make you bring back the old Mohawk you've mentioned!
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Bad Religion has a whole Christmas album. It might make you bring back the old Mohawk you've mentioned!
Their live Silent Night from the KROQ Christmas special is awesome.
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If we're talking non-traditional Christmas music now, I really love Kaskade's Christmas album. Its a nice electronic spin on some classics
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2 songs from Classic Rockers:
I Believe in Father Christmas - Greg Lake (King Crimson/Emerson Lake & Palmer)
Christmas Must be Tonight - The Band
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Bad Religion has a whole Christmas album. It might make you bring back the old Mohawk you've mentioned!
I've been listening to the Bad Religion Christmas album for the past 3 Decembers. It is FANTASTIC!!! "What Child is This" and "Angels We Have Heard On High" are two standouts, but I love every track.
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2 songs from Classic Rockers:
I Believe in Father Christmas - Greg Lake (King Crimson/Emerson Lake & Palmer)
Christmas Must be Tonight - The Band
Check out Boston's "God Rest Ye Metal Gentlemen".....so good.
Also Joan Jett's "Silent Night" and Little Drummer Boy"