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Author Topic: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha  (Read 12374 times)


MerrittsMustache

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2018, 09:42:58 AM »
This twitter fight is the most memorable moment of Dekker's NBA career.

Oh, wait. No, it's not...




jficke13

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2018, 09:53:17 AM »
This is so on brand it's magnificent.


TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2018, 11:32:45 AM »
Who could possibly have predicted Dekker was a douche?
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2018, 11:36:58 AM »
His original tweet was written to BK, Bronson Koenig.  Don't think a lot of people realized that. 

But he is pure douche either way.

#UnleashSean

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2018, 11:56:31 AM »
Meh, I don't see any harm in what he did. White people A) have culture B) Shouldn't be ashamed to be white. This crap is getting to ludicrous speed at this point.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2018, 04:48:36 PM »
So Dekker steps in it a bit here, though I'm pretty sure its out of ignorance rather than malintent (as it usually is).

The conversation about white culture is an interesting one. Most scholars on race and culture would tell you that there is no white culture because a race cannot have a culture. Its a mistake in vocabulary as culture comes from ethnicity not from race. So white people can have culture but its not white culture its Italian culture, or Irish culture, or Chinese culture (yes there are white people whose ethnicity is Chinese).

However, there are some scholars who do say that culture can come from race. For these scholars, white culture in the United States is about oppression because all whites in our country benefit from systematic oppression whether we intentionally participate in it or not. But that's going down a whole nother rabbit hole.

I think some also don't understand that impact it can have when a white person say "I'm proud to be white." Especially when saying it to a person of color. Fair or not, a big part of our history as whites in this country is committing atrocities against those who look different from us. Slavery, Japanese internment, manifest destiny...the list goes on and on. So when a person says "I'm proud to be white" the message that is received can be "I'm proud that my ancestors did awful things to other races." In most cases, that is not what the person is attending to say, but it is the impact that they are having.

So in Dekker's case, I think it is a safe bet that all he means by "proud to be white" is that he loves who he is as a person and part of that person is the fact that he is white (this is an assumption but I'm willing to assume good intent). But the impact of saying that to Koenig, a man of native american ancestry, could be that he is proud that his ancestors committed acts of genocide against Koenig's ancestors.

The problem with all of this of course is that all of this takes education, awareness, and lot of reflection. People don't do that when they are tweeting 180 characters or however long tweets are these day. And people on both sides of the spectrum are too quick to lambaste the other side for vocabulary issues (like saying race when you mean ethnicity...or getting caught up with calling something racism or bias), semantics, and other pointless crap without ever talking about the central issue.

My question for Mr. Dekker....and anyone who says they are proud to be white....is why? Why are you proud to be white? I can think of a million reasons why I'm proud to be American or proud to be Irish or proud to be Christian, but personally I can't think of why I would be proud to be white. I am not ashamed to be white either. I recognize and condemn those who have done terrible things who look like me and I acknowledge the impact that those actions have had on others, but that doesn't make feel guilty or ashamed. It's merely an acknowledgement that sometimes people do terrible things and a reminder that we should all be working to try to make the world a better place.

On a lighter note, the fact that someone bought a plane ticket to fight someone over this is hilarious.
TAMU

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#UnleashSean

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2018, 10:06:46 PM »
@ tamu

So if it's a bad thing to be proud to be white, why isn't it bad to say someone is proud to be black, or Asian, or native American? They have just as much if not more differences in culture than Irish or Italians. Also many people of each of these races committed atrocities. If you include Japanese internment camps as white atrocities, surely you should have Japanese pride or Chinese pride as straight evil.

MU82

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2018, 11:11:08 PM »
What is "white culture"?
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

forgetful

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2018, 11:16:43 PM »
What is "white culture"?

Eating Mayonnaise.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2018, 11:52:51 PM »
@ tamu

So if it's a bad thing to be proud to be white, why isn't it bad to say someone is proud to be black, or Asian, or native American? They have just as much if not more differences in culture than Irish or Italians. Also many people of each of these races committed atrocities. If you include Japanese internment camps as white atrocities, surely you should have Japanese pride or Chinese pride as straight evil.

A couple of things.

1. When did I say it was bad to be proud to be white? I think it is fine if you are (depending on the reason why), I just also recognize the impact that it could have an other people if you don't explain why you are proud.

2. The difference with saying "proud to be black" or "proud to be asian" in America is that those races are marginalized. Our society views minorities as less thans. Saying they're proud is a way to counteract that marginalization.

3. You mixed up race and ethnicity. Japanese and Chinese are both ethnicities. I don't think there's any problem with someone saying they are proud to be American (or Irish, Italian, Jewish, Armenian....)

I guess I go back to the question I had for Mr. Dekker. Why is he proud to be white? Why are you proud to be white? I don't think its necessarily a bad thing, I just personally can't think of any reason why I would be proud to be white. I am proud to be American, proud to be Irish, proud to be Christian....I just can't think of anything that makes me proud to be white.


What is "white culture"?

I'm curious about this too. I'm open to learning about it, but as a white person I have no idea what it is other than

Eating Mayonnaise.

and jokes of this nature. Again, I can tell you all about my American culture, my Irish culture, and my Christian culture. I just have no idea what my white culture is
TAMU

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#UnleashSean

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2018, 12:32:55 AM »
A couple of things.

1. When did I say it was bad to be proud to be white? I think it is fine if you are (depending on the reason why), I just also recognize the impact that it could have an other people if you don't explain why you are proud.

2. The difference with saying "proud to be black" or "proud to be asian" in America is that those races are marginalized. Our society views minorities as less thans. Saying they're proud is a way to counteract that marginalization.

3. You mixed up race and ethnicity. Japanese and Chinese are both ethnicities. I don't think there's any problem with someone saying they are proud to be American (or Irish, Italian, Jewish, Armenian....)

I guess I go back to the question I had for Mr. Dekker. Why is he proud to be white? Why are you proud to be white? I don't think its necessarily a bad thing, I just personally can't think of any reason why I would be proud to be white. I am proud to be American, proud to be Irish, proud to be Christian....I just can't think of anything that makes me proud to be white.


I'm curious about this too. I'm open to learning about it, but as a white person I have no idea what it is other than

and jokes of this nature. Again, I can tell you all about my American culture, my Irish culture, and my Christian culture. I just have no idea what my white culture is

Just another quick one. If you don't know what white culture is, what is black culture? A Sudanese is very different then a Ugandan but we don't seem to make that distinction in regards to ethnicity vs race. This is the problem I see with American racial issues, it's a very one way street.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2018, 01:02:16 AM »
Just another quick one. If you don't know what white culture is, what is black culture? A Sudanese is very different then a Ugandan but we don't seem to make that distinction in regards to ethnicity vs race. This is the problem I see with American racial issues, it's a very one way street.

Well in the United States, we often use "black" and "African-american" interchangeably. This is technically incorrect because black is a race and African-american is an ethnicity but it is a reality of our society. So when some one is saying "black culture" they actually mean "african-american culture." Which would be the same as me talking about my Irish culture. It's unfortunate because I do think it causes confusion. Because as you point out Ugandan culture, Sudanese culture, African-american culture, Haitian culture, etc are all very different. You say we "don't make that distinction" and I would agree, white people often don't make that distinction. But in my experience people of color almost always make that distinction.

It seems like you are very concerned about what other races are doing. "If they can say they're proud to be asian than I can be proud to be white" or "there is black culture so then I must have white culture." Frankly, I don't really care what all the other races are doing. Just because something works for others doesn't mean it will work for me.

I am very open to being proud of being white and learning about white culture. I am all about self pride. I am very proud to be American and will tell others so even if there are parts of America and its past that I don't approve of. I just don't personally know of any reason to be proud to be white or what white culture is.

So I'll ask again, why are you proud to be white? And what is white culture?
TAMU

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#UnleashSean

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2018, 01:24:26 AM »
Well in the United States, we often use "black" and "African-american" interchangeably. This is technically incorrect because black is a race and African-american is an ethnicity but it is a reality of our society. So when some one is saying "black culture" they actually mean "african-american culture." Which would be the same as me talking about my Irish culture. It's unfortunate because I do think it causes confusion. Because as you point out Ugandan culture, Sudanese culture, African-american culture, Haitian culture, etc are all very different. You say we "don't make that distinction" and I would agree, white people often don't make that distinction. But in my experience people of color almost always make that distinction.

It seems like you are very concerned about what other races are doing. "If they can say they're proud to be asian than I can be proud to be white" or "there is black culture so then I must have white culture." Frankly, I don't really care what all the other races are doing. Just because something works for others doesn't mean it will work for me.

I am very open to being proud of being white and learning about white culture. I am all about self pride. I am very proud to be American and will tell others so even if there are parts of America and its past that I don't approve of. I just don't personally know of any reason to be proud to be white or what white culture is.

So I'll ask again, why are you proud to be white? And what is white culture?

I would have to say that white culture is American white culture, that is completely separate from Irish, English, or italian culture.

forgetful

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2018, 02:14:39 AM »
I would have to say that white culture is American white culture, that is completely separate from Irish, English, or italian culture.

Except there is not a distinct, "American-white" culture.

jesmu84

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2018, 05:59:54 AM »
@ tamu

So if it's a bad thing to be proud to be white, why isn't it bad to say someone is proud to be black, or Asian, or native American? They have just as much if not more differences in culture than Irish or Italians. Also many people of each of these races committed atrocities. If you include Japanese internment camps as white atrocities, surely you should have Japanese pride or Chinese pride as straight evil.

You can now add immigrant children camps to that list.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2018, 06:31:50 AM »
You can now add immigrant children camps to that list.

no you can't!  i'm not going to get in to the morality of this, but the japanese-americans were rightly or wrongly placed in to these camps during world war II based on the safety and what is best for our country at the time.  i'm sure their was a punitive measure as well.  many probably believe it was punitive first, then what is best for our country

     the illegal-immigrant children are not citizens of this country.  they have come here and entered illegally.  try doing what they did in canada or mexico for that matter.  it is the illegal immigrant parents who bring their illegal immigrant children into this and then force the long arm of the law to enforce what they have and put all of them into a one size fits all.  then comes the faux outrage...unless ya'll remember elian gonzalez

    our laws regarding this are so lucy-goosey and need to be changed
don't...don't don't don't don't

naginiF

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2018, 07:40:04 AM »
no you can't!  i'm not going to get in to the morality of this, but the japanese-americans were rightly or wrongly placed in to these camps during world war II based on the safety and what is best for our country at the time.  i'm sure their was a punitive measure as well.  many probably believe it was punitive first, then what is best for our country

     the illegal-immigrant children are not citizens of this country.  they have come here and entered illegally.  try doing what they did in canada or mexico for that matter.  it is the illegal immigrant parents who bring their illegal immigrant children into this and then force the long arm of the law to enforce what they have and put all of them into a one size fits all.  then comes the faux outrage...unless ya'll remember elian gonzalez

    our laws regarding this are so lucy-goosey and need to be changed
First off (not related to RS's quote) "Sam DeKKKer" is funny and, regardless of whether his white pride was just a poor use of words or had more nefarious intent, needs to be a thing.

Second, the position that asylum seeking parents can force the U.S. Government to separate them from their children as an excuse for the governments actions is odd.  When a law has cruel consequences you change or amend it - doubling down on it as saying 'it's the law' and not doing anything OR implementing a hard line enforcement of the law that creates human bargaining chips to use for political purposes - moves it from 'law enforcement' to ____________ (insert whatever word you want to use to describe when someone causes undue suffering and does nothing to relieve that suffering even though they have the power/choice to.  Atrocity seems apt but choose your own word).

I don't think you will find anyone arguing whether they are 'breaking the law'....they are.  It's the hard line implementation of the consequences we should have issue with.

brewcity77

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2018, 08:14:03 AM »
Just another quick one. If you don't know what white culture is, what is black culture? A Sudanese is very different then a Ugandan but we don't seem to make that distinction in regards to ethnicity vs race. This is the problem I see with American racial issues, it's a very one way street.

We don't make a distinction because white Americans took that away from black Americans hundreds of years ago. There were no records kept and modern black Americans have no way of knowing where their ancestors are from.

This is part of why the "proud to be white" thing gets prickly. Because white Americans did horrible things to black Americans, including erasing their heritage, connections to, and knowledge of their homeland. So in this country, while I still have Polish heritage, black Americans don't know their heritage and have thus only been able to claim what heritage they have created here.

I'm not saying it was you just like it wasn't me, but this erasure of culture was done by white Americans, so when current white Americans talk about "white pride", these are the associations that can be perceived.
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brewcity77

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2018, 08:20:08 AM »
no you can't!

There are literally camps of imprisoned immigrant children, so yes you can. And the only faux outrage here is yours. The dehumanization of a people and forcing them into camps is exactly how Nazi Germany started. But of course, Germans must've thought what Hitler did to the Jews was "what is best for our country at the time."
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#UnleashSean

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2018, 08:37:14 AM »
Well this took a nice turn from social racial issues into human death camps.

Just a day at scoop

tower912

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2018, 08:45:15 AM »
I don't view Sam Dekker as a racist.   I think this is an example of a conversation that never should have been made public.   Most of us white guys at some point have had conversations with non-white friends where they explain to us why there is a difference between white pride and black pride.     Or taken us with them to a car dealership and watched the salesman step around them and come talk to you, even though they are looking to buy a car and you're not.    Gone out to lunch with them and seen the hostess completely ignore them and talk to you.     A conversation where white privilege is explained to you by a non-white.   
    Sam made the youthful mistake of engaging in this conversation via social media.    Instead of him having a heart to heart with Bronson over a beer with no record except in their hearts, he did it in front of everyone and got called on it.   A curse of the modern age and social media.    Sam's only crime is  bro ignorance.     Being a bro-flake.   Hopefully, he emerges from this wiser and more prudent about what he puts on social meda. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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jesmu84

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2018, 10:06:10 AM »
I don't view Sam Dekker as a racist.   I think this is an example of a conversation that never should have been made public.   Most of us white guys at some point have had conversations with non-white friends where they explain to us why there is a difference between white pride and black pride.     Or taken us with them to a car dealership and watched the salesman step around them and come talk to you, even though they are looking to buy a car and you're not.    Gone out to lunch with them and seen the hostess completely ignore them and talk to you.     A conversation where white privilege is explained to you by a non-white.   
    Sam made the youthful mistake of engaging in this conversation via social media.    Instead of him having a heart to heart with Bronson over a beer with no record except in their hearts, he did it in front of everyone and got called on it.   A curse of the modern age and social media.    Sam's only crime is  bro ignorance.     Being a bro-flake.   Hopefully, he emerges from this wiser and more prudent about what he puts on social meda.

Well said tower.

forgetful

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2018, 10:07:25 AM »
I don't view Sam Dekker as a racist.   I think this is an example of a conversation that never should have been made public.   Most of us white guys at some point have had conversations with non-white friends where they explain to us why there is a difference between white pride and black pride.     Or taken us with them to a car dealership and watched the salesman step around them and come talk to you, even though they are looking to buy a car and you're not.    Gone out to lunch with them and seen the hostess completely ignore them and talk to you.     A conversation where white privilege is explained to you by a non-white.   
    Sam made the youthful mistake of engaging in this conversation via social media.    Instead of him having a heart to heart with Bronson over a beer with no record except in their hearts, he did it in front of everyone and got called on it.   A curse of the modern age and social media.    Sam's only crime is  bro ignorance.     Being a bro-flake.   Hopefully, he emerges from this wiser and more prudent about what he puts on social meda.

All of this.

Babybluejeans

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Re: Sam Dekker Causes Bruhaha
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2018, 10:26:55 AM »
Let’s be clear about one thing: there is no such thing as white culture. Absent in this thread is any explanation as to what American white culture is. We have white ethnic cultures, like Italian and French and Irish.

There’s really only one race in America that has developed a distinct culture - black. And to echo a previous poster, it’s not because they’ve been given some gift we should all be entitled to. Rather, it’s that they’ve been so marginalized by the rest of the country that they’ve developed their own unique cultural practices as a product of circumstance. So black “pride” becomes a way of taking some empowerment back from a society that has systematically disempowered them.

People shouldn’t be ashamed to be white. It’s simply how some of us are born. But “white pride” has very deep roots in something very malicious.