MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: GGGG on June 15, 2018, 09:22:46 AM
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https://deadspin.com/sam-dekker-white-pride-tweet-sparks-meet-me-in-temecula-1826859607
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This twitter fight is the most memorable moment of Dekker's NBA career.
Oh, wait. No, it's not...
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7398091/rocket.0.gif)
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This is so on brand it's magnificent.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/RHiD0K65NxxLO/giphy.gif)
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Who could possibly have predicted Dekker was a douche?
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His original tweet was written to BK, Bronson Koenig. Don't think a lot of people realized that.
But he is pure douche either way.
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Meh, I don't see any harm in what he did. White people A) have culture B) Shouldn't be ashamed to be white. This crap is getting to ludicrous speed at this point.
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So Dekker steps in it a bit here, though I'm pretty sure its out of ignorance rather than malintent (as it usually is).
The conversation about white culture is an interesting one. Most scholars on race and culture would tell you that there is no white culture because a race cannot have a culture. Its a mistake in vocabulary as culture comes from ethnicity not from race. So white people can have culture but its not white culture its Italian culture, or Irish culture, or Chinese culture (yes there are white people whose ethnicity is Chinese).
However, there are some scholars who do say that culture can come from race. For these scholars, white culture in the United States is about oppression because all whites in our country benefit from systematic oppression whether we intentionally participate in it or not. But that's going down a whole nother rabbit hole.
I think some also don't understand that impact it can have when a white person say "I'm proud to be white." Especially when saying it to a person of color. Fair or not, a big part of our history as whites in this country is committing atrocities against those who look different from us. Slavery, Japanese internment, manifest destiny...the list goes on and on. So when a person says "I'm proud to be white" the message that is received can be "I'm proud that my ancestors did awful things to other races." In most cases, that is not what the person is attending to say, but it is the impact that they are having.
So in Dekker's case, I think it is a safe bet that all he means by "proud to be white" is that he loves who he is as a person and part of that person is the fact that he is white (this is an assumption but I'm willing to assume good intent). But the impact of saying that to Koenig, a man of native american ancestry, could be that he is proud that his ancestors committed acts of genocide against Koenig's ancestors.
The problem with all of this of course is that all of this takes education, awareness, and lot of reflection. People don't do that when they are tweeting 180 characters or however long tweets are these day. And people on both sides of the spectrum are too quick to lambaste the other side for vocabulary issues (like saying race when you mean ethnicity...or getting caught up with calling something racism or bias), semantics, and other pointless crap without ever talking about the central issue.
My question for Mr. Dekker....and anyone who says they are proud to be white....is why? Why are you proud to be white? I can think of a million reasons why I'm proud to be American or proud to be Irish or proud to be Christian, but personally I can't think of why I would be proud to be white. I am not ashamed to be white either. I recognize and condemn those who have done terrible things who look like me and I acknowledge the impact that those actions have had on others, but that doesn't make feel guilty or ashamed. It's merely an acknowledgement that sometimes people do terrible things and a reminder that we should all be working to try to make the world a better place.
On a lighter note, the fact that someone bought a plane ticket to fight someone over this is hilarious.
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@ tamu
So if it's a bad thing to be proud to be white, why isn't it bad to say someone is proud to be black, or Asian, or native American? They have just as much if not more differences in culture than Irish or Italians. Also many people of each of these races committed atrocities. If you include Japanese internment camps as white atrocities, surely you should have Japanese pride or Chinese pride as straight evil.
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What is "white culture"?
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What is "white culture"?
Eating Mayonnaise.
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@ tamu
So if it's a bad thing to be proud to be white, why isn't it bad to say someone is proud to be black, or Asian, or native American? They have just as much if not more differences in culture than Irish or Italians. Also many people of each of these races committed atrocities. If you include Japanese internment camps as white atrocities, surely you should have Japanese pride or Chinese pride as straight evil.
A couple of things.
1. When did I say it was bad to be proud to be white? I think it is fine if you are (depending on the reason why), I just also recognize the impact that it could have an other people if you don't explain why you are proud.
2. The difference with saying "proud to be black" or "proud to be asian" in America is that those races are marginalized. Our society views minorities as less thans. Saying they're proud is a way to counteract that marginalization.
3. You mixed up race and ethnicity. Japanese and Chinese are both ethnicities. I don't think there's any problem with someone saying they are proud to be American (or Irish, Italian, Jewish, Armenian....)
I guess I go back to the question I had for Mr. Dekker. Why is he proud to be white? Why are you proud to be white? I don't think its necessarily a bad thing, I just personally can't think of any reason why I would be proud to be white. I am proud to be American, proud to be Irish, proud to be Christian....I just can't think of anything that makes me proud to be white.
What is "white culture"?
I'm curious about this too. I'm open to learning about it, but as a white person I have no idea what it is other than
Eating Mayonnaise.
and jokes of this nature. Again, I can tell you all about my American culture, my Irish culture, and my Christian culture. I just have no idea what my white culture is
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A couple of things.
1. When did I say it was bad to be proud to be white? I think it is fine if you are (depending on the reason why), I just also recognize the impact that it could have an other people if you don't explain why you are proud.
2. The difference with saying "proud to be black" or "proud to be asian" in America is that those races are marginalized. Our society views minorities as less thans. Saying they're proud is a way to counteract that marginalization.
3. You mixed up race and ethnicity. Japanese and Chinese are both ethnicities. I don't think there's any problem with someone saying they are proud to be American (or Irish, Italian, Jewish, Armenian....)
I guess I go back to the question I had for Mr. Dekker. Why is he proud to be white? Why are you proud to be white? I don't think its necessarily a bad thing, I just personally can't think of any reason why I would be proud to be white. I am proud to be American, proud to be Irish, proud to be Christian....I just can't think of anything that makes me proud to be white.
I'm curious about this too. I'm open to learning about it, but as a white person I have no idea what it is other than
and jokes of this nature. Again, I can tell you all about my American culture, my Irish culture, and my Christian culture. I just have no idea what my white culture is
Just another quick one. If you don't know what white culture is, what is black culture? A Sudanese is very different then a Ugandan but we don't seem to make that distinction in regards to ethnicity vs race. This is the problem I see with American racial issues, it's a very one way street.
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Just another quick one. If you don't know what white culture is, what is black culture? A Sudanese is very different then a Ugandan but we don't seem to make that distinction in regards to ethnicity vs race. This is the problem I see with American racial issues, it's a very one way street.
Well in the United States, we often use "black" and "African-american" interchangeably. This is technically incorrect because black is a race and African-american is an ethnicity but it is a reality of our society. So when some one is saying "black culture" they actually mean "african-american culture." Which would be the same as me talking about my Irish culture. It's unfortunate because I do think it causes confusion. Because as you point out Ugandan culture, Sudanese culture, African-american culture, Haitian culture, etc are all very different. You say we "don't make that distinction" and I would agree, white people often don't make that distinction. But in my experience people of color almost always make that distinction.
It seems like you are very concerned about what other races are doing. "If they can say they're proud to be asian than I can be proud to be white" or "there is black culture so then I must have white culture." Frankly, I don't really care what all the other races are doing. Just because something works for others doesn't mean it will work for me.
I am very open to being proud of being white and learning about white culture. I am all about self pride. I am very proud to be American and will tell others so even if there are parts of America and its past that I don't approve of. I just don't personally know of any reason to be proud to be white or what white culture is.
So I'll ask again, why are you proud to be white? And what is white culture?
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Well in the United States, we often use "black" and "African-american" interchangeably. This is technically incorrect because black is a race and African-american is an ethnicity but it is a reality of our society. So when some one is saying "black culture" they actually mean "african-american culture." Which would be the same as me talking about my Irish culture. It's unfortunate because I do think it causes confusion. Because as you point out Ugandan culture, Sudanese culture, African-american culture, Haitian culture, etc are all very different. You say we "don't make that distinction" and I would agree, white people often don't make that distinction. But in my experience people of color almost always make that distinction.
It seems like you are very concerned about what other races are doing. "If they can say they're proud to be asian than I can be proud to be white" or "there is black culture so then I must have white culture." Frankly, I don't really care what all the other races are doing. Just because something works for others doesn't mean it will work for me.
I am very open to being proud of being white and learning about white culture. I am all about self pride. I am very proud to be American and will tell others so even if there are parts of America and its past that I don't approve of. I just don't personally know of any reason to be proud to be white or what white culture is.
So I'll ask again, why are you proud to be white? And what is white culture?
I would have to say that white culture is American white culture, that is completely separate from Irish, English, or italian culture.
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I would have to say that white culture is American white culture, that is completely separate from Irish, English, or italian culture.
Except there is not a distinct, "American-white" culture.
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@ tamu
So if it's a bad thing to be proud to be white, why isn't it bad to say someone is proud to be black, or Asian, or native American? They have just as much if not more differences in culture than Irish or Italians. Also many people of each of these races committed atrocities. If you include Japanese internment camps as white atrocities, surely you should have Japanese pride or Chinese pride as straight evil.
You can now add immigrant children camps to that list.
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You can now add immigrant children camps to that list.
no you can't! i'm not going to get in to the morality of this, but the japanese-americans were rightly or wrongly placed in to these camps during world war II based on the safety and what is best for our country at the time. i'm sure their was a punitive measure as well. many probably believe it was punitive first, then what is best for our country
the illegal-immigrant children are not citizens of this country. they have come here and entered illegally. try doing what they did in canada or mexico for that matter. it is the illegal immigrant parents who bring their illegal immigrant children into this and then force the long arm of the law to enforce what they have and put all of them into a one size fits all. then comes the faux outrage...unless ya'll remember elian gonzalez
our laws regarding this are so lucy-goosey and need to be changed
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no you can't! i'm not going to get in to the morality of this, but the japanese-americans were rightly or wrongly placed in to these camps during world war II based on the safety and what is best for our country at the time. i'm sure their was a punitive measure as well. many probably believe it was punitive first, then what is best for our country
the illegal-immigrant children are not citizens of this country. they have come here and entered illegally. try doing what they did in canada or mexico for that matter. it is the illegal immigrant parents who bring their illegal immigrant children into this and then force the long arm of the law to enforce what they have and put all of them into a one size fits all. then comes the faux outrage...unless ya'll remember elian gonzalez
our laws regarding this are so lucy-goosey and need to be changed
First off (not related to RS's quote) "Sam DeKKKer" is funny and, regardless of whether his white pride was just a poor use of words or had more nefarious intent, needs to be a thing.
Second, the position that asylum seeking parents can force the U.S. Government to separate them from their children as an excuse for the governments actions is odd. When a law has cruel consequences you change or amend it - doubling down on it as saying 'it's the law' and not doing anything OR implementing a hard line enforcement of the law that creates human bargaining chips to use for political purposes - moves it from 'law enforcement' to ____________ (insert whatever word you want to use to describe when someone causes undue suffering and does nothing to relieve that suffering even though they have the power/choice to. Atrocity seems apt but choose your own word).
I don't think you will find anyone arguing whether they are 'breaking the law'....they are. It's the hard line implementation of the consequences we should have issue with.
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Just another quick one. If you don't know what white culture is, what is black culture? A Sudanese is very different then a Ugandan but we don't seem to make that distinction in regards to ethnicity vs race. This is the problem I see with American racial issues, it's a very one way street.
We don't make a distinction because white Americans took that away from black Americans hundreds of years ago. There were no records kept and modern black Americans have no way of knowing where their ancestors are from.
This is part of why the "proud to be white" thing gets prickly. Because white Americans did horrible things to black Americans, including erasing their heritage, connections to, and knowledge of their homeland. So in this country, while I still have Polish heritage, black Americans don't know their heritage and have thus only been able to claim what heritage they have created here.
I'm not saying it was you just like it wasn't me, but this erasure of culture was done by white Americans, so when current white Americans talk about "white pride", these are the associations that can be perceived.
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no you can't!
There are literally camps of imprisoned immigrant children, so yes you can. And the only faux outrage here is yours. The dehumanization of a people and forcing them into camps is exactly how Nazi Germany started. But of course, Germans must've thought what Hitler did to the Jews was "what is best for our country at the time."
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Well this took a nice turn from social racial issues into human death camps.
Just a day at scoop
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I don't view Sam Dekker as a racist. I think this is an example of a conversation that never should have been made public. Most of us white guys at some point have had conversations with non-white friends where they explain to us why there is a difference between white pride and black pride. Or taken us with them to a car dealership and watched the salesman step around them and come talk to you, even though they are looking to buy a car and you're not. Gone out to lunch with them and seen the hostess completely ignore them and talk to you. A conversation where white privilege is explained to you by a non-white.
Sam made the youthful mistake of engaging in this conversation via social media. Instead of him having a heart to heart with Bronson over a beer with no record except in their hearts, he did it in front of everyone and got called on it. A curse of the modern age and social media. Sam's only crime is bro ignorance. Being a bro-flake. Hopefully, he emerges from this wiser and more prudent about what he puts on social meda.
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I don't view Sam Dekker as a racist. I think this is an example of a conversation that never should have been made public. Most of us white guys at some point have had conversations with non-white friends where they explain to us why there is a difference between white pride and black pride. Or taken us with them to a car dealership and watched the salesman step around them and come talk to you, even though they are looking to buy a car and you're not. Gone out to lunch with them and seen the hostess completely ignore them and talk to you. A conversation where white privilege is explained to you by a non-white.
Sam made the youthful mistake of engaging in this conversation via social media. Instead of him having a heart to heart with Bronson over a beer with no record except in their hearts, he did it in front of everyone and got called on it. A curse of the modern age and social media. Sam's only crime is bro ignorance. Being a bro-flake. Hopefully, he emerges from this wiser and more prudent about what he puts on social meda.
Well said tower.
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I don't view Sam Dekker as a racist. I think this is an example of a conversation that never should have been made public. Most of us white guys at some point have had conversations with non-white friends where they explain to us why there is a difference between white pride and black pride. Or taken us with them to a car dealership and watched the salesman step around them and come talk to you, even though they are looking to buy a car and you're not. Gone out to lunch with them and seen the hostess completely ignore them and talk to you. A conversation where white privilege is explained to you by a non-white.
Sam made the youthful mistake of engaging in this conversation via social media. Instead of him having a heart to heart with Bronson over a beer with no record except in their hearts, he did it in front of everyone and got called on it. A curse of the modern age and social media. Sam's only crime is bro ignorance. Being a bro-flake. Hopefully, he emerges from this wiser and more prudent about what he puts on social meda.
All of this.
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Let’s be clear about one thing: there is no such thing as white culture. Absent in this thread is any explanation as to what American white culture is. We have white ethnic cultures, like Italian and French and Irish.
There’s really only one race in America that has developed a distinct culture - black. And to echo a previous poster, it’s not because they’ve been given some gift we should all be entitled to. Rather, it’s that they’ve been so marginalized by the rest of the country that they’ve developed their own unique cultural practices as a product of circumstance. So black “pride” becomes a way of taking some empowerment back from a society that has systematically disempowered them.
People shouldn’t be ashamed to be white. It’s simply how some of us are born. But “white pride” has very deep roots in something very malicious.
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What is "white culture"?
Yogurt, hey?
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Let’s be clear about one thing: there is no such thing as white culture. Absent in this thread is any explanation as to what American white culture is. We have white ethnic cultures, like Italian and French and Irish.
There’s really only one race in America that has developed a distinct culture - black. And to echo a previous poster, it’s not because they’ve been given some gift we should all be entitled to. Rather, it’s that they’ve been so marginalized by the rest of the country that they’ve developed their own unique cultural practices as a product of circumstance. So black “pride” becomes a way of taking some empowerment back from a society that has systematically disempowered them.
People shouldn’t be ashamed to be white. It’s simply how some of us are born. But “white pride” has very deep roots in something very malicious.
Well said. Much of American culture is borrowed. However, the most uniquely American food is from Black America, emanating from the South. Same with the roots of American music. Two uniquely American sports, baseball and basketball, helped break color barriers.
The historic record of the USA is comprised of mainly persecuted immigrants who came here or were forced here. The fusion of our cultures is when America is at its greatest. When we try to separate them is when we are at our ugliest.
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I’ve never quite understood why I should be proud of things I’ve never had any control of, things that are purely genetics. Should I be proud that I am tall? Proud that I am genetically lucky and still have a full head of hair? I had nothing to do with these things. It’s like claiming a prize for something I didn’t earn.
And to be clear, TAMU’s point that minorities say “proud to be” X is something quite different, as he said a pushback against being marginalized.
But why would I or Dekker be “proud” to be born of a particular skin tone when we had nothing to do with it?
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no you can’t
Smh. You never fail to remind me of the quote (variously attributed to Lincoln and Twain):
Better to shut your mouth and be thought the fool than open it and remove all doubt.
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UnleashLaxBros
What exactly does your white pride entail? When you see other white folks do you give them a thumbs up for being in the same club? When does a person no longer qualify as being white? Do Obama or Koenig get half white pride? Is there a latitude lingitude cutoff where you qualify a person as no longer white but looking more Arab, asian, or African?
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Wait. There are white Chinese ppl?
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UnleashLaxBros
What exactly does your white pride entail? When you see other white folks do you give them a thumbs up for being in the same club? When does a person no longer qualify as being white? Do Obama or Koenig get half white pride? Is there a latitude lingitude cutoff where you qualify a person as no longer white but looking more Arab, asian, or African?
I never said anything about me being for white pride. I don't like the entire pride movement at all. As you stated it's just there to be ''hey I'm white/black/Asian and you are white/black/Asian that's awesome let's do things'' it just discludes others which in my mind is just wrong .
However I was pointing out that dekker can be ridiculed for saying he enjoys being white while another will be rejoiced for saying he likes being black.
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I never said anything about me being for white pride. I don't like the entire pride movement at all. As you stated it's just there to be ''hey I'm white/black/Asian and you are white/black/Asian that's awesome let's do things'' it just discludes others which in my mind is just wrong .
However I was pointing out that dekker can be ridiculed for saying he enjoys being white while another will be rejoiced for saying he likes being black.
You are missing part of the picture that people are trying to illustrate, and where statements like "white pride" can be viewed as insensitive.
Sub-cultures like the African-amerian culture exist because of historic marginalization of subsections of the population. As others have noted, their heritage was stolen from them in slavery, most don't know their familiar roots. At the end of slavery, they were still marginalized and treated as less than human until modern times. That led to them being isolated from the larger "white" community.
Such marginalization leads to a culture that is distinct from that of the rest of america, particularly in the inner cities and south where large communities would form. These sub-cultures were viewed (and still are viewed) negatively by the bulk of the population, as a part of the sub-humanization of the African-American community. Even in current times some aspects of black-culture are viewed as negatives that should be "fixed."
Black-pride, or pride in black-culture, is the counter movement to this treatment. It says that they shouldn't be ashamed of their differences that stem from centuries of marginalization, rather it should be celebrated as part of who they are "their culture." And that their culture is every bit as important as the broader "American culture." It is not something that needs to be "fixed."
White-culture or white pride in this manner, doesn't make sense and can then be viewed as insensitive. White-americans were never marginalized. They didn't develop a distinct culture separate from America, because American has always been run by white-christians. To celebrate it through "white pride," reinforces the idea of superiority of whites, and presents a negative lens on other sub-cultures.
Other cultures did exist in the US for a long time. Irish-american, Polish-american and numerous other immigrant groups were viewed as "undesirables" for a long time. That gave rise to sub-cultures of Irish-americans or Polish-americans and pride in their heritage. Some of these sub-cultures have vanished to an extent as identifying someone as Polish, or Irish isn't possible by the color of their skin, lending a more rapid integration, inter-marriage across groups and dissolution of bias.
That isn't the case for hispanic/black/asian so pride in their culture is still important as a counter movement to bias and derogatory views on who they are.
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Smh. You never fail to remind me of the quote (variously attributed to Lincoln and Twain):
Better to shut your mouth and be thought the fool than open it and remove all doubt.
listen smith,
hate to to break this to ya but you are not the end all, be all. your opinion ain't all the chit. even though we have never crossed paths, it is obvious you do not like me, but you can (i think) lay off the personal attacks, please!
if ya want to disagree with something, fine. but knock off the trolling attacks. if you are a father, have a good one ;)
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Wait. There are white Chinese ppl?
Yes. If you are white skinned but raised in China in the Chinese culture your ethnicity would be Chinese. Your race would be white. Now you may also be of Italian, Irish, or American ethnicity as well. Rui Hachimura is a good example of this. His race is half black and half asian but in the United States most would just call him black. One of his ethnicities is Japanese.
Race = what the government says you are on a census based on your skin color/geographic location
Ethnicity = what is your cultural background/ancesotry
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no you can't! i'm not going to get in to the morality of this, but the japanese-americans were rightly or wrongly placed in to these camps during world war II based on the safety and what is best for our country at the time. i'm sure their was a punitive measure as well. many probably believe it was punitive first, then what is best for our country
the illegal-immigrant children are not citizens of this country. they have come here and entered illegally. try doing what they did in canada or mexico for that matter. it is the illegal immigrant parents who bring their illegal immigrant children into this and then force the long arm of the law to enforce what they have and put all of them into a one size fits all. then comes the faux outrage...unless ya'll remember elian gonzalez
our laws regarding this are so lucy-goosey and need to be changed
Rocket, help me understand the bolded. I'm reading it as you think Japanese internment was justified and not something that we as Americans should be ashamed of. Is that what you meant?
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However I was pointing out that dekker can be ridiculed for saying he enjoys being white while another will be rejoiced for saying he likes being black.
What does black people saying they have black pride have to do with white people saying they have white pride? "Hey they're doing it so we need to be able to do it too?"
Remember there is a difference between equality and equity. We should always strive for the latter. Everyone getting the same thing doesn't acknowledge the fact that we are all different people with different histories and needs.
(http://i2.wp.com/interactioninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/IISC_EqualityEquity.png?zoom=1&resize=730%2C547)
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Sew, is Dekker blue, green, pink, orr red? Sure as chit, 'xpect the big Master strapped on dis thread soon, hey?
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Sew, is Dekker blue, green, pink, orr red? Sure as chit, 'xpect the big Master strapped on dis thread soon, hey?
Minus the whole death camp advocates, this thread has been a spread of knowledge.
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I never said anything about me being for white pride. I don't like the entire pride movement at all. As you stated it's just there to be ''hey I'm white/black/Asian and you are white/black/Asian that's awesome let's do things'' it just discludes others which in my mind is just wrong .
However I was pointing out that dekker can be ridiculed for saying he enjoys being white while another will be rejoiced for saying he likes being black.
Did you not read TAMU's excellent post a little earlier about the difference between a member of a marginalized people talking about having pride in their race vs. members of the favored majority trying to co-opt the argument for their own purposes?
It's like responding to a black person who says "black lives matter" by shouting, "All lives matter." Of course all lives "matter," but white people haven't been told for hundreds of years that they don't matter in this country.
It's been more than a day since I asked what "white culture" is. Aside from references to mayo and yogurt, nobody has been able to define it ... because it doesn't have to be defined in America.
You know who talks often about "white culture" and "white pride"? David Duke, Richard Spencer and their ilk, that's who.
I absolutely am not putting Sam Dekker in their company. I don't know if he is a racist or not, a white supremacist or not. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and agree with those who say he mostly was guilty of ignorance and dopiness.
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Rocket, help me understand the bolded. I'm reading it as you think Japanese internment was justified and not something that we as Americans should be ashamed of. Is that what you meant?
because i was not there, didn't live in that time, did not experience the emotions going on, etc etc i am not in any way form or fashion justifying or endorsing or supporting anything with regard to the internment of the japanese-americans. i may be guilty of simplifying the reasons i believe that our governments/FDR issued executive order 9066-"safety" and what was "best for our country" at that time. this was a time of great panic. it wasn't until much later that we did admit to our wrongs and between jimmy carter and ronald reagan, we tried to atone for that atrocity and paid reparations to any living camp survivor. if you read my statement, leaving out my political leanings, you should be able to see that i was trying NOT to make any judgement of that point in time in our history. i am not going to be baited in to this one tamu. i think the actions of our government on the internment of the japanese-americans speaks for itself. it is debatable if the japanese ever apologized for their atrocity upon us though, eyn'a?
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Minus the whole death camp advocates, this thread has been a spread of knowledge.
this statement is a complete disgrace of what i said i you know it bro. try to be a little more honest with your self man or exercise some self control and just move on
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because i was not there, didn't live in that time, did not experience the emotions going on, etc etc i am not in any way form or fashion justifying or endorsing or supporting anything with regard to the internment of the japanese-americans. i may be guilty of simplifying the reasons i believe that our governments/FDR issued executive order 9066-"safety" and what was "best for our country" at that time. this was a time of great panic. it wasn't until much later that we did admit to our wrongs and between jimmy carter and ronald reagan, we tried to atone for that atrocity and paid reparations to any living camp survivor. if you read my statement, leaving out my political leanings, you should be able to see that i was trying NOT to make any judgement of that point in time in our history. i am not going to be baited in to this one tamu. i think the actions of our government on the internment of the japanese-americans speaks for itself. it is debatable if the japanese ever apologized for their atrocity upon us though, eyn'a?
Why does apologizing for placing Americans in internment camps based upon their heritage have anything to do with Japan apologizing for Pearl Harbor?
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the illegal-immigrant children are not citizens of this country. they have come here and entered illegally. try doing what they did in canada or mexico for that matter. it is the illegal immigrant parents who bring their illegal immigrant children into this and then force the long arm of the law to enforce what they have and put all of them into a one size fits all. then comes the faux outrage...unless ya'll remember elian gonzalez
That is false. There is nothing in the laws of this country that force the United States to separate parents from their children.
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Why does apologizing for placing Americans in internment camps based upon their heritage have anything to do with Japan apologizing for Pearl Harbor?
Simple. They all look alike :-\
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What does black people saying they have black pride have to do with white people saying they have white pride? "Hey they're doing it so we need to be able to do it too?"
Remember there is a difference between equality and equity. We should always strive for the latter. Everyone getting the same thing doesn't acknowledge the fact that we are all different people with different histories and needs.
(http://i2.wp.com/interactioninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/IISC_EqualityEquity.png?zoom=1&resize=730%2C547)
Sorry to burst your bubble but life doesn't work that way. I have suffered every indignity possible and asked for no special privilege because of the color of my skin. That is how I overcame the circumstance I was born into. I worked hard to be respected and dealt with in the business world on a basis of trust and what I brought to the table . I am sick and tired of white people who patronize the less historically blessed cultures and want to create a welfare culture with no accountability and no skills development. Forget the equal outcome routine and demand more basic skills of people. You will be surprised to see how much people can do when the expectations levels are raised.
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That is false. There is nothing in the laws of this country that force the United States to separate parents from their children.
if the parent is falsely claiming 1)to be the parent, 2)is a threat to the child, 3)is put into criminal proceedings, usually when they enter the country illegally, the children are put into protective custody of the HHS in temporary and safe shelters.
these are the same rules/laws that have been in effect for the past ? years. in other words, they haven't changed in the past 1 1/2 years. if the adult has no other aggravating factors, i.e. previous illegal entry or another crime, they usually plead guilty, get time served. if they want to return back to their home country, their children are returned to them and they leave together as a family unit to go back to their home country
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Why does apologizing for placing Americans in internment camps based upon their heritage have anything to do with Japan apologizing for Pearl Harbor?
seriously?? maybe this was supposed to be teal? by apology, i meant for their unprovoked attack/bombing of pearl harbor.
another unnecessary attempt to troll your base-totally uncalled for sully.
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seriously?? maybe this was supposed to be teal? by apology, i meant for their unprovoked attack/bombing of pearl harbor.
another unnecessary attempt to troll your base-totally uncalled for sully.
The bolded is inaccurate. We instituted an embargo on Japan in 1941 that crippled their economy and would have made them lose the war. That was definitely meant as provocation, and we were aware that it would likely lead to open war.
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Sorry to burst your bubble but life doesn't work that way. I have suffered every indignity possible and asked for no special privilege because of the color of my skin. That is how I overcame the circumstance I was born into. I worked hard to be respected and dealt with in the business world on a basis of trust and what I brought to the table . I am sick and tired of white people who patronize the less historically blessed cultures and want to create a welfare culture with no accountability and no skills development. Forget the equal outcome routine and demand more basic skills of people. You will be surprised to see how much people can do when the expectations levels are raised.
Sorry Hermie, I think you are having a different conversation. We're talking about whether or not some black people saying they are proud to be black is good reason for some white people to be saying that they are proud to be white. I'm not sure what that has to do with welfare states.
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seriously?? maybe this was supposed to be teal? by apology, i meant for their unprovoked attack/bombing of pearl harbor.
another unnecessary attempt to troll your base-totally uncalled for sully.
Americans did not attack or bomb Pearl Harbor. The Americans in the camps had nothing to do with that. What possible justification can you have for putting American citizens in camps?
EDIT: Unless your assertion is that Pearl Harbor was a false flag attack carried out by Japanese Americans to make it look like Japan attacked us in order to bring the US into WWII, in which case...wow is that off the rails.
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(http://i2.wp.com/interactioninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/IISC_EqualityEquity.png?zoom=1&resize=730%2C547)
We're just going to let these guys watch the game for free? Kinda ridiculous.
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We're just going to let these guys watch the game for free? Kinda ridiculous.
Stupid Cubs fans, obvi
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This twitter fight is the most memorable moment of Dekker's NBA career.
Oh, wait. No, it's not...
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7398091/rocket.0.gif)
Why couldn't you all just let this thread die after this? It was all that needed to be said.
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seriously?? maybe this was supposed to be teal? by apology, i meant for their unprovoked attack/bombing of pearl harbor.
another unnecessary attempt to troll your base-totally uncalled for sully.
But why would you even bring it up? It was completely irrelevant to the conversation.
And no offense, I don't have to "troll my base" when it comes to your posts. You say enough to do the work for me.
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if the parent is falsely claiming 1)to be the parent, 2)is a threat to the child, 3)is put into criminal proceedings, usually when they enter the country illegally, the children are put into protective custody of the HHS in temporary and safe shelters.
these are the same rules/laws that have been in effect for the past ? years. in other words, they haven't changed in the past 1 1/2 years. if the adult has no other aggravating factors, i.e. previous illegal entry or another crime, they usually plead guilty, get time served. if they want to return back to their home country, their children are returned to them and they leave together as a family unit to go back to their home country
The rules may have been in place, but the way they have been implemented has changed by this administration. In the past, they separated children when their parents were found to have violated a law, but did not treat the crossing of the border illegally as a law that could cause separation. The difference is that this administration is treating the border violation as a violation of the law and separating the families regardless of other factors.
So yes while I guess people can sleep better at night knowing that the written policy hasn't changed, the way it has been implemented certainly has changed. And if you are comfortable with that, well, I guess I don't know what to say.
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The rules may have been in place, but the way they have been implemented has changed by this administration. In the past, they separated children when their parents were found to have violated a law, but did not treat the crossing of the border illegally as a law that could cause separation. The difference is that this administration is treating the border violation as a violation of the law and separating the families regardless of other factors.
So yes while I guess people can sleep better at night knowing that the written policy hasn't changed, the way it has been implemented certainly has changed. And if you are comfortable with that, well, I guess I don't know what to say.
All 100% true which is why this entire issue is ripe for a reasonable resolution. Let's hope entrenched politicians on all sides can come to a solution. Is that possible? Not holding my breath.
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Sorry to burst your bubble but life doesn't work that way. I have suffered every indignity possible and asked for no special privilege because of the color of my skin. That is how I overcame the circumstance I was born into. I worked hard to be respected and dealt with in the business world on a basis of trust and what I brought to the table . I am sick and tired of white people who patronize the less historically blessed cultures and want to create a welfare culture with no accountability and no skills development. Forget the equal outcome routine and demand more basic skills of people. You will be surprised to see how much people can do when the expectations levels are raised.
Here, here, hey?
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Here, here, hey?
Least shocking endorsement ever.
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You really have a problem with what Herman, a man of color, said?
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Youl really have a problem with what Herman, a man of color, said?
First, I have no idea who Herman is. I think much of this is an act but really have no idea.
Second, it's irrelevant to my reading of his statement if he is a "man of color."
Third, I do agree with a portion of what he says.
Fourth, I disagree with a substantial portion of what he says. Especially the "welfare culture" nonsense.
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Sorry Hermie, I think you are having a different conversation. We're talking about whether or not some black people saying they are proud to be black is good reason for some white people they are proud to be white. I'm not sure what that has to do with welfare states.
Yep, classic goalpost-shifting.
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because i was not there, didn't live in that time, did not experience the emotions going on, etc etc i am not in any way form or fashion justifying or endorsing or supporting anything with regard to the internment of the japanese-americans. i may be guilty of simplifying the reasons i believe that our governments/FDR issued executive order 9066-"safety" and what was "best for our country" at that time. this was a time of great panic. it wasn't until much later that we did admit to our wrongs and between jimmy carter and ronald reagan, we tried to atone for that atrocity and paid reparations to any living camp survivor. if you read my statement, leaving out my political leanings, you should be able to see that i was trying NOT to make any judgement of that point in time in our history. i am not going to be baited in to this one tamu. i think the actions of our government on the internment of the japanese-americans speaks for itself. it is debatable if the japanese ever apologized for their atrocity upon us though, eyn'a?
So you don't know if it is wrong to incarcerate people solely based on their heritage, but you're pretty sure Japan needs to apologize to the U.S.?
JFC.
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All 100% true which is why this entire issue is ripe for a reasonable resolution. Let's hope entrenched politicians on all sides can come to a solution. Is that possible? Not holding my breath.
99% of the time the bolded is true. This is clearly part of the 1% - this situation was caused and is continued to happen because of no more than 5 people - DJT, Sessions, Kelly, Miller and i'm sure i've forgotten one. They caused it, they can fix it.
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99% of the time the bolded is true. This is clearly part of the 1% - this situation was caused and is continued to happen because of no more than 5 people - DJT, Sessions, Kelly, Miller and i'm sure i've forgotten one. They caused it, they can fix it.
They would have to want to fix it. The only person on Scoop whose opinion matters to them is Brain Surgeon. They have calculated that this is worth votes.
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99% of the time the bolded is true. This is clearly part of the 1% - this situation was caused and is continued to happen because of no more than 5 people - DJT, Sessions, Kelly, Miller and i'm sure i've forgotten one. They caused it, they can fix it.
Not only that, but 48/49 Democratic senators have signed on to Dianne Feinstein's bill opposing this. 0/51 Republicans have joined their support.
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Here, here, hey?
Amen. Herman speaking uncomfortable (for the nutzos) truth
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can we go back to making fun of DeKKKer, please?
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Amen. Herman speaking uncomfortable (for the nutzos) truth
Ha. This is comically untrue. No one really disagrees with what Herman said. It's just what Herman said made no sense within the context of the dialogue.
This shows perfectly why conversations can't be had at all with some folks. You'll project a false narrative onto one point of view and then respond to that false narrative - usually only to shoehorn well-worn talking points into a conversation where they're irrelevant. That's not how dialogue (or even skilled sophistry) works, except for some people in America in 2018. Also, it's boring.
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Ha. This is comically untrue. No one really disagrees with what Herman said. It's just what Herman said made no sense within the context of the dialogue.
This shows perfectly why conversations can't be had at all with some folks. You'll project a false narrative onto one point of view and then respond to that false narrative - usually only to shoehorn well-worn talking points into a conversation where they're irrelevant. That's not how dialogue (or even skilled sophistry) works, except for some people in America in 2018. Also, it's boring.
Love this post.
Great rant - very concise.
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Ha. This is comically untrue. No one really disagrees with what Herman said. It's just what Herman said made no sense within the context of the dialogue.
This shows perfectly why conversations can't be had at all with some folks. You'll project a false narrative onto one point of view and then respond to that false narrative - usually only to shoehorn well-worn talking points into a conversation where they're irrelevant. That's not how dialogue (or even skilled sophistry) works, except for some people in America in 2018. Also, it's boring.
Oh yeah?
Well, Leon's is the best frozen custard in Milwaukee.
Take that!
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can we go back to making fun of DeKKKer, please?
I just love this nickname so much.
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I just love this nickname so much.
Yessir, DeKKKer is the best nickname for any hated opponent (or former opponent) in a long, long time.
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Yessir, DeKKKer is the best nickname for any hated opponent (or former opponent) in a long, long time.
Or best since The Grinch...
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Or best since The Grinch...
Green pride?
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As someone who was called out by many, many people here for using a nasty term about cops who commit crimes, it would seem that DeKKKer is WAY WAY over the line.
He responded to a stupid statement with his own stupid statement. Apparently on Scoop that means accusing him of being like-minded with murderous white supremacist savages.
Make fun of him for his "nimble" feet and ballerina-like coordination, but enough is enough.
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As someone who was called out by many, many people here for using a nasty term about cops who commit crimes, it would seem that DeKKKer is WAY WAY over the line.
He responded to a stupid statement with his own stupid statement. Apparently on Scoop that means accusing him of being like-minded with murderous white supremacist savages.
Make fun of him for his "nimble" feet and ballerina-like coordination, but enough is enough.
It's not funny because he made a stupid statement. it's funny because:
- the twitter fight that followed when some dude used it
- UW's track record of differing graduation rates between white and black players (not sure there is still a dramatic gap but there was
- the subtle racism that occurs within UW's fan base when a black player picks another school
- the fact that UW is such a white institution they have to photoshop a black guy into their student section to appear diverse
- DeKKKer made a stupid statement about white pride
It's not specific to him it's a reflection of the whole program he represents.........therefore, funny.
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It's not specific to him it's a reflection of the whole program he represents.........therefore, funny.
There is a picture of Sam Dekker. There are posts about DeKKKer.
But it's not about him. um....OK.
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As someone who was called out by many, many people here for using a nasty term about cops who commit crimes, it would seem that DeKKKer is WAY WAY over the line.
He responded to a stupid statement with his own stupid statement. Apparently on Scoop that means accusing him of being like-minded with murderous white supremacist savages.
Nobody on Scoop has said anything close to this.
"DeKKKer" was written in reference to a tweet made in response to his bad tweet. And it was said in jest.
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As someone who was called out by many, many people here for using a nasty term about cops who commit crimes, it would seem that DeKKKer is WAY WAY over the line.
He responded to a stupid statement with his own stupid statement. Apparently on Scoop that means accusing him of being like-minded with murderous white supremacist savages.
Make fun of him for his "nimble" feet and ballerina-like coordination, but enough is enough.
brandi gets a jock-strap snuggie over a play on consonants, and tries to equate it to his hate for the people who put their lives on the line for us every day?? he's been trying so hard, watching for a moral equivalent...swing and a miss, but thanks for playing
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Nobody on Scoop has said anything close to this.
"DeKKKer" was written in reference to a tweet made in response to his bad tweet. And it was said in jest.
Using KKK in his name would suggest he is like members of the Klan. Sorta obvious.
Oops, just kidding :o
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Using KKK in his name would suggest he is like members of the Klan. Sorta obvious.
Oops, just kidding :o
does it hurt to have no sense of humor?
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You and I usually are on the same page, brand, but this is a joke. It's making fun of a guy who used to be with the enemy.
You called out an entire group of people. We need to do something about bad cops - Bill Maher closed out New Rules last week with an excellent piece on this subject, including a mention of Brown -- but your blanket reference to them as "pigs" was over the line.
I know you came back and explained that you were talking about those specific cops, but I just felt the language was unnecessary. And there certainly wasn't any good-natured joking in your posts.
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You and I usually are on the same page, brand, but this is a joke. It's making fun of a guy who used to be with the enemy.
You called out an entire group of people. We need to do something about bad cops - Bill Maher closed out New Rules last week with an excellent piece on this subject, including a mention of Brown -- but your blanket reference to them as "pigs" was over the line.
I know you came back and explained that you were talking about those specific cops, but I just felt the language was unnecessary. And there certainly wasn't any good-natured joking in your posts.
On this one, I'd have to see the reaction of people if someone made a reference to a group like the black panthers in regards to a basketball player.
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On this one, I'd have to see the reaction of people if someone made a reference to a group like the black panthers in regards to a basketball player.
I honestly think it would depend on how close that players name was to 'black panthers' and the context of quote. If the players name was Blake Puma and he said something supporting a revolution..."Blake Puma? more like Black Panther" would be funny. If it was Blake Griffin making a peaceful protest of something and someone referenced the black panthers it would not be funny.
If Dekker's name was 'Decker' or 'Dekler' it moves out of the realm of humor.
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If Dekker's name was 'Decker' or 'Dekler' it moves out of the realm of humor.
Dirk Dekler?
DeKKKer is funnier. Makes me giggle every time I see it.
White Pride '18!
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In no way does anyone think that Sam Dekk(k)er is part of the KKK. Lets cool the jets a bit.
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In no way does anyone think that Sam Dekk(k)er is part of the KKK. Lets cool the jets a bit.
DO YOU HAVE PROOF THAT HE ISN"T?????
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I would rather just focus on his face-dribbling technique, and this quote from the original article:
At least four years ago, when a Twitter guy drove 35 minutes to Temecula, Calif., on Christmas Day to fight another Twitter guy who said mean things about Kobe Bryant, the feud was about a player who was actually good.
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In no way does anyone think that Sam Dekk(k)er is part of the KKK. Lets cool the jets a bit.
Brandy might not think that, but his feelings are hurt.
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I’ve never quite understood why I should be proud of things I’ve never had any control of, things that are purely genetics. Should I be proud that I am tall? Proud that I am genetically lucky and still have a full head of hair? I had nothing to do with these things. It’s like claiming a prize for something I didn’t earn.
And to be clear, TAMU’s point that minorities say “proud to be” X is something quite different, as he said a pushback against being marginalized.
But why would I or Dekker be “proud” to be born of a particular skin tone when we had nothing to do with it?
If you haven't heard George Carlin's bit on national pride, you should as you just nailed his point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOmQP9guIl0
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who cares about Dekker (other than the Badger obsessed crowd), the real story here is that some MAGA douche (allegedly) bought a plane ticket to fight a guy he had a disagreement with on Twitter. If that doesn't prove the downfall of our civil society that social media has created, I don't know what does.
And to make it even more ridiculous, he (allegedly) put the dude in a middle seat in basic economy and had him fly in on the last flight out of SFO. I say "allegedly" because I don't know how one could book an airline ticket for someone else when they have no identifying information for them.
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Brandy might not think that, but his feelings are hurt.
why am i NOT surprised he found something racist in all of this :o??
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DO YOU HAVE PROOF THAT HE ISN"T?????
No,
But Davison is a human false flag though
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who cares about Dekker (other than the Badger obsessed crowd), the real story here is that some MAGA douche (allegedly) bought a plane ticket to fight a guy he had a disagreement with on Twitter. If that doesn't prove the downfall of our civil society that social media has created, I don't know what does.
And to make it even more ridiculous, he (allegedly) put the dude in a middle seat in basic economy and had him fly in on the last flight out of SFO. I say "allegedly" because I don't know how one could book an airline ticket for someone else when they have no identifying information for them.
See that's low. Nobody's in condition fight after being in the middle seat. You need at least two days of stretching and bio freeze before your muscles are loose enough for fisty cuffs
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See that's low. Nobody's in condition fight after being in the middle seat. You need at least two days of stretching and bio freeze before your muscles are loose enough for fisty cuffs
the guy presents himself as a baller and that's the best he can do for the guy whose ass he intends to beat?
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See that's low. Nobody's in condition fight after being in the middle seat. You need at least two days of stretching and bio freeze before your muscles are loose enough for fisty cuffs
Really? Fisty cuffs?
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Really? Fisty cuffs?
Most instances of two untrained people trying to fight don't deserve to be called fights so figured I'd have some fun with it
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Really? Fisty cuffs?
(http://www.cityscenecolumbus.com/downloads/3407/download/John_L._Sullivan_1898.jpg?cb=ea3d0d94f355174134da7f476f680492)
This man is about to partake in some fisty cuffs.
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(http://www.cityscenecolumbus.com/downloads/3407/download/John_L._Sullivan_1898.jpg?cb=ea3d0d94f355174134da7f476f680492)
This man is about to partake in some fisty cuffs.
He'll pepper your porridge. He'll crimson your face.
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(http://www.cityscenecolumbus.com/downloads/3407/download/John_L._Sullivan_1898.jpg?cb=ea3d0d94f355174134da7f476f680492)
This man is about to partake in some fisty cuffs.
Sporting the elder George Foreman physique
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DeKKKer.
hehehe
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yeah, never was a fan of anyone in red, but...,
As I read it, he made a simple statement that is being misinterpreted. Hardly calls for the kkk crap. jes sayin
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It makes me chuckle. And he's a F%cky Badger. Eff DeKKKer.
jes sayin