TBT 2018

[brewcity77]

One nice thing about the Elam ending is that the game always ends on a winning shot.

And did anyone else notice the Elam score was 77? Of course we were going to win.

Mike Jakubowski mentioned the 77 and its significance to Marquette history. Thought it was nice that he gave me the shout-out. 

[Mr. Nielsen]

I thought it was a fun afternoon watching both games. Energy of course picked up for the 2nd game. Anyone watch Wojo? He was into it more than the fans.

[Mr. Nielsen]

How do we feel about the Elam ending?

Much better than I thought. Being in the Al with Marquette going for game point with the crowd on it's feet, thought it was volleyball. 

[brewcity77]

How do we feel about the Elam ending?

I love it. I'd like to see it or a variation added to every form of basketball. I like watching teams play basketball, not drag the last 4 minutes out endlessly with absurd, unnecessary fouls. Add it to the NIT next year and NCAA in 2019-20.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I love it. I'd like to see it or a variation added to every form of basketball. I like watching teams play basketball, not drag the last 4 minutes out endlessly with absurd, unnecessary fouls. Add it to the NIT next year and NCAA in 2019-20.

Absolutely not.

You can't change from a timed game to a set score 3/4 of the way through the game.

If you wanna say first to 80 wins that's perfectly fine, and if it's a 40 minute game that's all well and good as well. You can't have both in the same game.

[jsglow]

I thought it was a fun afternoon watching both games. Energy of course picked up for the 2nd game. Anyone watch Wojo? He was into it more than the fans.

Wojo is doing some heavy recruiting these days. Noon ball can't resume soon enough.

[warriorchick]

Wojo is doing some heavy recruiting these days. Noon ball can't resume soon enough.

Definitely sporting a bit of a spare tire this afternoon.

Also saw Steve Novak with his family.

[brewcity77]

Absolutely not.

You can't change from a timed game to a set score 3/4 of the way through the game.

If you wanna say first to 80 wins that's perfectly fine, and if it's a 40 minute game that's all well and good as well. You can't have both in the same game.

You absolutely can. Saying first to 80 wins is a poor option because it doesn't take into account pace of play. The Elam Ending works with any pace of play. 36 minute game, then first to highest score +7. It was seamless.

[jsglow]

Guys, I could care less about end game rules.  If you're within 75 miles of the Al and don't have committed plans tomorrow......

I used to drive up for Delta dental. #TBT rocks. Get your arse in the gym.

[Nukem2]

I love it. I'd like to see it or a variation added to every form of basketball. I like watching teams play basketball, not drag the last 4 minutes out endlessly with absurd, unnecessary fouls. Add it to the NIT next year and NCAA in 2019-20.

Nah.  That first game totally sucked after the Elam change.  Just a different game.

[MUfan12]

I'd be in favor of some limit on take fouls at the end of games. Like after the second foul, it's two and the ball. The Elam Ending was okay, but I don't think I'd like it for meaningful basketball.

[wadesworld]

Nah.  That first game totally sucked after the Elam change.  Just a different game.

Agreed. I can't stand it. Don't like the quarters either. I'd be fine with a double bonus right away instead of one and one at some point or something. But that's how all sports are. You don't manage substitutions/pitching changes the same in innings 1-6 as you do in the 9th. You don't manage the clock in football the first 55 minutes as you do the last 5. Etc.

[Nukem2]

Agreed. I can't stand it. Don't like the quarters either. I'd be fine with a double bonus right away instead of one and one at some point or something. But that's how all sports are. You don't manage substitutions/pitching changes the same in innings 1-6 as you do in the 9th. You don't manage the clock in football the first 55 minutes as you do the last 5. Etc.

Yup.

[jsglow]

Boys,  it's freakin' summer ball. 4 hours in A/C.

[Nukem2]

Boys,  it's freakin' summer ball. 4 hours in A/C.

Yah, but Brew City wants to expand it to those 10" snow days in January to April. 

[brewcity77]

Yah, but Brew City wants to expand it to those 10" snow days in January to April. 

Yes, because I like basketball, not hacksketball. The most enjoyable games are the ones where both teams are playing to the end. This insures that every time. You can't foul to stop the clock, or whittle down a deficit with negative play. And you can't Buckyball to run out the clock. You have to finish the game by going out and winning it.

[Nukem2]

Yes, because I like basketball, not hacksketball. The most enjoyable games are the ones where both teams are playing to the end. This insures that every time. You can't foul to stop the clock, or whittle down a deficit with negative play. And you can't Buckyball to run out the clock. You have to finish the game by going out and winning it.

Sorry,but many of us disagree with you.  The Elam stuff brings about weird endiings.  Just makes for different games within the same games.  Yeah, less fouls, but so what.  Not gonna happen.  it's just weird.

[TheyWereCones]

Yes, because I like basketball, not hacksketball. The most enjoyable games are the ones where both teams are playing to the end. This insures that every time. You can't foul to stop the clock, or whittle down a deficit with negative play. And you can't Buckyball to run out the clock. You have to finish the game by going out and winning it.

I agree, I like it too for all the reasons you've mentioned and to me it makes so much sense.  Makes them finish the game instead of stall it out and have endless fouling.  Plus the fact of always ending on a winning basket...how does that not add excitement to it?  Lastly, it also technically gives teams a shot to win no matter how far down they are, which I would think would keep everyone including the players more invested for longer.  You know if they did this there would be some absolutely wild finishes all season, and tons more bench mob celebrations.  I haven't heard a lot of reasons against it for those who oppose other than "it's weird" which means it's different and they don't like different.

[wadesworld]

I agree, I like it too for all the reasons you've mentioned and to me it makes so much sense.  Makes them finish the game instead of stall it out and have endless fouling.  Plus the fact of always ending on a winning basket...how does that not add excitement to it?  Lastly, it also technically gives teams a shot to win no matter how far down they are, which I would think would keep everyone including the players more invested for longer.  You know if they did this there would be some absolutely wild finishes all season, and tons more bench mob celebrations.  I haven't heard a lot of reasons against it for those who oppose other than "it's weird" which means it's different and they don't like different.

So you don't think 12 point comebacks in the last minute of an NCAA Tournament game is exciting? Or Reggie Miller scoring 9 points in 30 seconds is exciting? Or a half court buzzer beater after a game tying shot in an NCAA Tournament is exciting? But seeing Jamil Wilson hit a 3 to win by 12 is exciting?

Come on. Exciting finishes are the games where a team is down big and in the blink of an eye they've stolen a win. To make big comebacks in this format you actually WOULD have a drawn out game that would require some bad basketball from the team in the lead.

As far as hacksketball, should we start calling fouls to prevent layups and dunks flagrant fouls? Apparently fouling isn't part of "pure basketball?"

[Nukem2]

i could see it perhaps in OT, in regulation time... nah.

[wadesworld]

If this format was the way basketball was always played you could kiss every one of these highlights goodbye.  And it'd make basketball "more exciting" because every game ends on a made basket, because 10 guys going through the motions until a set score is reached in 90% of games is so exciting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-EdfwyLvZk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTThyQPoXxY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo3G2MfOYeA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdFB3OGUaGU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rm_eAiV4dA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbkX4B3cCG8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDvbTrE8VBo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmcOo-bGJp0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICZ8HO8c9bw

I will never understand how taking this out of basketball would make it more exciting.  But to each their own.

[brewcity77]

Sorry,but many of us disagree with you.  The Elam stuff brings about weird endiings.  Just makes for different games within the same games.  Yeah, less fouls, but so what.  Not gonna happen.  it's just weird.

Sure, disagreement is fine. And it's different, but things don't get better by stagnating.

Come on. Exciting finishes are the games where a team is down big and in the blink of an eye they've stolen a win. To make big comebacks in this format you actually WOULD have a drawn out game that would require some bad basketball from the team in the lead.

As far as hacksketball, should we start calling fouls to prevent layups and dunks flagrant fouls? Apparently fouling isn't part of "pure basketball?"

So every time a team comes from behind to win an Elam game, except without needing to foul?

And I'm talking about the intentional hacks to stop the clock. Wrapping someone up just to put them on the line isn't enjoyable to watch.

[wadesworld]

Sure, disagreement is fine. And it's different, but things don't get better by stagnating.

So every time a team comes from behind to win an Elam game, except without needing to foul?

And I'm talking about the intentional hacks to stop the clock. Wrapping someone up just to put them on the line isn't enjoyable to watch.

So you think a team that is down 11 with no time limit but has to stop the other team from scoring 7 more points would play the same way that they would if they were down by 11 with 2 minutes left?

No, they'd slow it down and try to get good looks every time down the court while with a time limit there's a sense of desperation and they have to execute without taking any time off the clock.  Which means they'd be relying on their opponent to play really bad basketball to give them a chance to come back to win.

See Marquette vs. Davidson.  Davidson played well down the stretch.  Marquette played better.  That was as exciting of a finish to a basketball game as I've ever seen.

[TheyWereCones]

If this format was the way basketball was always played you could kiss every one of these highlights goodbye.  And it'd make basketball "more exciting" because every game ends on a made basket, because 10 guys going through the motions until a set score is reached in 90% of games is so exciting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-EdfwyLvZk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTThyQPoXxY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo3G2MfOYeA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdFB3OGUaGU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rm_eAiV4dA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbkX4B3cCG8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDvbTrE8VBo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmcOo-bGJp0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICZ8HO8c9bw

I will never understand how taking this out of basketball would make it more exciting.  But to each their own.

I guess until there are actual Elam Ending games in the NCAA I can't show you how many amazing endings there would be.  What you saw today were two games that weren't that close.  Wait until you have games that go down to the final bucket and teams have to get a stop to survive and can put it away on the other end.  There would be just as many, if not more, exciting endings.  Just because you didn't see them in either of these two games doesn't throw out the whole idea.  News flash - for these two games, the regular ending would have been just as lame if not far worse to watch.  Probably just a bunch of dribbling out the clock or else the endless free throw parade.

[wadesworld]

I guess until there are actual Elam Ending games in the NCAA I can't show you how many amazing endings there would be.  What you saw today were two games that weren't that close.  Wait until you have games that go down to the final bucket and teams have to get a stop to survive and can put it away on the other end.  There would be just as many, if not more, exciting endings.  Just because you didn't see them in either of these two games doesn't throw out the whole idea.  News flash - for these two games, the regular ending would have been just as lame if not far worse to watch.  Probably just a bunch of dribbling out the clock or else the endless free throw parade.

You said you haven't seen any reason people don't like the new format other than "it's weird."

Now you get a reason besides "it's weird" and you can't accept it because we haven't seen anything yet.

Guess you can't lose.

I simply don't buy the "every game has a game winner!  How exciting!"  Cool, a guy made a shot up 10 to end the game.  If he misses it, his team has 5 more chances to win the game even if the other team scores every time down on the other end of the court.

In order to see a fun comeback in this format the team in the lead needs to play awful basketball.  So even if you get your exciting comeback, it's sloppy basketball to make it happen.  Nothing about that is exciting.