NFC North / NFL Thread 2018-19

[jsglow]

Everyone likes to rag on Mac and much of it is fair. But what's most glaring is the poor work done by Thompson in his later years. The Packers just don't currently have the horses to compete.

[dgies9156]

There is a changing of the guard beginning to happen in the NFC North. The Packers have dominated for so long but they may be only the third best team in the division. The NFC North is the dog poo of the NFL for this year. Heck, when the Bear is leading the division, you know the division has problems!

Minnesota is Minnesota. Give that dog a bone and it will find a way to choke on it. The Vikings may be the class of the division but they won't last past the first round of the playoffs, if they even last that long! Who knows but the last team to bet money on is Minnesota.

The Bears are up-and-comers. They are not "there" yet, but the addition of Mack, new wide receivers and the hopeful maturation of Mitch Trubisky (well, Bear fans can hope) breathes new life into a fan base that has been in hibernation since the days of Lovie Smith.  Bear fans stopped going to Soldier Field in droves (that's something you did not see on television) during the last days of the "Fox" and Management had to do something or Chicago was headed toward being the LA of the East. This is a team that finds a way to disappoint, no matter what, so we shall see.

The Packers are reminicient of the last days of Brett Favre. A football team in decline. If Clay Matthews is not in his last year, someone in the front office needs to wake up. The defense is its usual mediocre and the offense, while good, is hardly worthy of Aaron Rodgers' talents. The Montgomery incident at Los Angeles is indicative of bad coaching and a sign that Mike McCarthy needs to go. The Packers used to find a way to win the "big ones" and owned the Bears. There have been no happy endings on the "Big Ones" this year and it took a dropped interception by Kyle Fuller for the Packers to squeak by the Bears.  Do not be surprised if the Packers end up with a losing record. Quite a disappointment for a team celebrating its 100th anniversary and which started the season with (delusional) eyes on the Super Bowl.

Detroit is a Federal Disaster Area. The team is terrible and has no chemistry. One week they beat the Packers and the next week they lose to the Little Sisters of the Poor. They trade Golden Tate in the NFL's version of, "Let's see how we can tank a team NBA style."  All I can think of here is, "In the Village, the quiet village, the Lion sleeps tonight...."

None of these teams makes it past Los Angeles or New Orleans. The question is whether is spread would be in double digits.

[wadesworld]

Everyone likes to rag on Mac and much of it is fair. But what's most glaring is the poor work done by Thompson in his later years. The Packers just don't currently have the horses to compete.

Not sure about that at all. They should've had a 2 minute drive to get a field goal to win the game at the LAR and they had the ball in the red zone in a 4th quarter tie last night at NE. Those are 2 road games against 2 of maybe the 3 favorite teams to make it to the SB. That seems like competing to me, and to be honest it's with Aaron not being his normal all time great self, in my opinion.

[jsglow]

Not sure about that at all. They should've had a 2 minute drive to get a field goal to win the game at the LAR and they had the ball in the red zone in a 4th quarter tie last night at NE. Those are 2 road games against 2 of maybe the 3 favorite teams to make it to the SB. That seems like competing to me, and to be honest it's with Aaron not being his normal all time great self, in my opinion.

While I agree that the Packers were able to 'hang on' with two really good teams,there's zero indication that this team has talent much beyond a .500 record.  And while ARodg hasn't been entirely himself, he's still one of the very best players in the league at the most important position.  Replace him with an average guy and the Packers are a 6-10 team.  I agree with what dgies said.  Feels like the end of Favre rebuild.  The good news is that Guty seems to have started that process already.  The rookie crop is very impressive.

[GGGG]

Everyone likes to rag on Mac and much of it is fair. But what's most glaring is the poor work done by Thompson in his later years. The Packers just don't currently have the horses to compete.

While I do think it is obvious that there has been a talent drop off, I can blame McCarthy for plenty.  Simplifying the offense this year has been terrible.  It is a bland offense, stuck in a year 2000 version of the West Coast Offense.  I look and see what some teams are doing out there and the Packers have none of that.

But yeah, there have been personnel problems.  The fact that they are still relying on Randall Cobb and Clay Matthews to be productive starters is part of the problem.

[GGGG]

There is a changing of the guard beginning to happen in the NFC North. The Packers have dominated for so long but they may be only the third best team in the division. The NFC North is the dog poo of the NFL for this year. Heck, when the Bear is leading the division, you know the division has problems!

The Packers may finish last in the division unless the Lions fall apart.

Of there three wins, one was a Rodgers' miracle comeback v. the Bears, one of was a slightly less than miracle against the Niners and one was against the Bills.  They are 0-4 on the road.  They have some soft teams left on their schedule (Cardinals, Jets) but they have plenty of teams that can beat them (Dolphins, Seahawks) and a couple who they aren't going to beat (Vikings, Bears).

[dgies9156]

The Packers may finish last in the division unless the Lions fall apart.

Of there three wins, one was a Rodgers' miracle comeback v. the Bears, one of was a slightly less than miracle against the Niners and one was against the Bills.  They are 0-4 on the road.  They have some soft teams left on their schedule (Cardinals, Jets) but they have plenty of teams that can beat them (Dolphins, Seahawks) and a couple who they aren't going to beat (Vikings, Bears).

Brother Sultan of Southwest Wisconsin, I hear you. The Packers are really, really problematic and there's no end in sight. I'll concede the skill positions on offense are pretty good, but I am less confident in the line and the defense, is, well, porous. Question is, as you correctly point out, whether this team is in such disarray that, to quote a Green Bay favorite, Mike Ditka, "we're not going to win another game this year."

Ditka said that toward the end of his tenure when the Bears were in complete turmoil.

The Lions are anyone's guess as to how bad/good they really are. Buffalo they aint and they did beat the Packers. Question is whether beating the Patriots and Packers is their season "high" or season "only."  Team is bad, bad, bad, way bad.

[GGGG]

To be honest, I have also seen some things out of Rodgers that makes me wonder as well.  Accuracy and arm strength are not what they were, but I don't know how much of that is due to the knee or due to breakdowns in his offensive line.  I think the team is a mess right now.

[MUBurrow]

To be honest, I have also seen some things out of Rodgers that makes me wonder as well.  Accuracy and arm strength are not what they were, but I don't know how much of that is due to the knee or due to breakdowns in his offensive line.  I think the team is a mess right now.

I know hindsight is always 20/20, but what sense did it make to turn over the entire staff in the offseason, except for McCarthy?  To basically put McCarthy on an island and then trot him back out there with new coordinators, a new GM, and a relationship with the face of the franchise that has been deteriorating for years was doomed from the word go.  Now when McCarthy is gone next year, do you start all over again and have the new coach bring in an entire new staff? Its like there is no plan.

[GGGG]

I know hindsight is always 20/20, but what sense did it make to turn over the entire staff in the offseason, except for McCarthy?  To basically put McCarthy on an island and then trot him back out there with new coordinators, a new GM, and a relationship with the face of the franchise that has been deteriorating for years was doomed from the word go.  Now when McCarthy is gone next year, do you start all over again and have the new coach bring in an entire new staff? Its like there is no plan.

I think the problem is Mark Murphy not setting out clear lines of authority and responsibility.  I'm not sure Gutekunst has the ability to fire the coach - but he should.

[SaveOD238]

Defense is improving and has some good young talent.  The new DC knows what he's doing.  We desperately need a big pass rusher.  Look for Gutes to package our two 1st rounders for a top 5 type player at edge rusher.

Offense has pieces but they're young.  Jones is the future at RB.  The Trio of Adams-MVS-StBrown could be really really good, with Cobb and Graham as veterans (a la Donald Driver in the Super Bowl year).  We need to improve the line and the scheme to make those talented players worth something.  I would love to see us snag an offensively minded HC from the college ranks (Lincoln Riley, Chris Peterson, etc) to change up the offense and really utilize those weapons.

I have no illusions of competing for a Super Bowl this year.  It's not going to happen.  But the last two weeks showed that we can play with the best and just need a little more experience to put us over the top.  A young and talented team around Aaron Rodgers can compete with anyone.

[MU82]

Packers have one all-time great, a few really good players, a few decent players and a lot of mediocrity and/or wounded. And it's certainly hard to defend their coaching staff.

It was a helluva run, but they definitely need to retool, and they probably have to start with McCarthy. And as most know, I'm not a knee-jerk, "throw out the coach this instant" kind of guy.

As Phil Jackson said, every coach has only so many years before it's best for both sides to move on. There have been exceptions, of course, but by and large I agree with that.

Sad thing about retooling is that Rodgers' window is closing. Then again, teams can retool pretty quickly in the NFL, especially if they have a great QB. For example, the Saints were reeling just a couple years ago and their coach was on the hot seat. Of course, they held onto Payton through three very tumultuous 7-9 seasons and have come out the other side as one of the NFL's best teams.

[Dish]

I'm not ready to start writing the Pack eulogy yet. I think this next three game stretch will define their season. I don't think the league did them any favors going Sunday night, late Sunday afternoon, then travel cross country for a Thursday nighter in Seattle.

The team in the NFC I wouldn't want to play right now is Carolina. I wish their game with the Steelers wasn't on Thursday night, as that game looks much better than the Sunday nighter. I can live without any more NFC East teams in prime time. The NFC South is very much up for grabs, especially with Panthers/Saints meeting twice in the last 3 weeks of the year.

I think in the NFC, the non division winner of Panthers/Saints will easily lock up the 5th seed. I think the 6th seed is between the non NFC North winners and the Falcons. The Falcons winning at Washington may loom large down the road, but I don't think the non NFC East winner will be enough to hang around. Washington had the benefit of being 5-1 in the conference before yesterday.

The Bears win big yesterday, but there wasn't much on offense that inspired confidence. Their next 3 games will make or break any wild card shot this season. Three straight divisional opponents, two of them at home.

[MU82]

I'm not ready to start writing the Pack eulogy yet. I think this next three game stretch will define their season. I don't think the league did them any favors going Sunday night, late Sunday afternoon, then travel cross country for a Thursday nighter in Seattle.

The team in the NFC I wouldn't want to play right now is Carolina. I wish their game with the Steelers wasn't on Thursday night, as that game looks much better than the Sunday nighter. I can live without any more NFC East teams in prime time. The NFC South is very much up for grabs, especially with Panthers/Saints meeting twice in the last 3 weeks of the year.

I think in the NFC, the non division winner of Panthers/Saints will easily lock up the 5th seed. I think the 6th seed is between the non NFC North winners and the Falcons. The Falcons winning at Washington may loom large down the road, but I don't think the non NFC East winner will be enough to hang around. Washington had the benefit of being 5-1 in the conference before yesterday.

The Bears win big yesterday, but there wasn't much on offense that inspired confidence. Their next 3 games will make or break any wild card shot this season. Three straight divisional opponents, two of them at home.

I like to think you're right about the Panthers/Saints non winner locking up the 5th seed, but I will say that the Panthers have a very challenging 2nd-half schedule: at Pitt, at Det, Sea, at TB, at Cle, NO, Atl, at NO. I mean, even at Cle, at Det at at TB aren't gimmes if my lads aren't ready to play, and the others are plenty tough. In all, 5 of 8 on the road, including at Pit and at NO. They'll get a great chance to prove if they're as good as the last 9 quarters (starting with comeback vs Phil) appear to make them look.

Totally agree about the Thu night game. It sucks for both teams to have so little rest before having to play a formidable opponent. I hate Thu night games in general; very unfair to athletes the league claims to care about.

[barfolomew]

the Panthers/Saints non winner

You mean the loser?
Do we have to move this to the Millenial thread?

[BM1090]

IMO, the Packers will beat the Dolphins, Falcons, Jets, Lions, Cardinals. Then probably win 1 of the remaining 3. Finish 9-6-1. Remaining schedule is pretty damn easy, especially the home schedule.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

IMO, the Packers will beat the Dolphins, Falcons, Jets, Lions, Cardinals. Then probably win 1 of the remaining 3. Finish 9-6-1. Remaining schedule is pretty damn easy, especially the home schedule.

Falcons are rolling right now so I wouldn't expect that win in comparison to the others.

[BM1090]

Falcons are rolling right now so I wouldn't expect that win in comparison to the others.

Yep that's definitely a tougher game. And the Packers could lose that one or some of the others I mentioned if they don't figure it out. I just think they are starting to play better and it'll be good enough to put a run together. They still aren't a very good team though.

[Jockey]

Yep that's definitely a tougher game. And the Packers could lose that one or some of the others I mentioned if they don't figure it out. I just think they are starting to play better and it'll be good enough to put a run together. They still aren't a very good team though.

They may or may not be a very good team. We still don't know.

They just had 2 games on the road against maybe the two best teams in the NFL and had a very good chance to win both until 4th quarter fumbles.

The Bears are way overrated. 191 total yards yesterday?

Their game against GB was only close because they used and abused Kizer. If Rodgers doesn't get hurt, the game isn't even close. If GB beats Miami and Seattle - as I think they will - the game in Minny is for the NFC title.

[Babybluejeans]

The NFC North is the dog poo of the NFL for this year.

Brother, you're far too kind to the NFC East.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

They may or may not be a very good team. We still don't know.

They just had 2 games on the road against maybe the two best teams in the NFL and had a very good chance to win both until 4th quarter fumbles.

The Bears are way overrated. 191 total yards yesterday?

Their game against GB was only close because they used and abused Kizer. If Rodgers doesn't get hurt, the game isn't even close. If GB beats Miami and Seattle - as I think they will - the game in Minny is for the NFC title.

Not sure who is overrating the Bears but there's no reason not to think they're a wildcard contender.  Buffalo has been horrendous defensively at home and it's not  like the Bears needed to rack up yards yesterday.  The 3 games they've lost have been by a combined 11 points. 

You're way overrating the Packers. 

[Pakuni]

Not sure who is overrating the Bears but there's no reason not to think they're a wildcard contender.  Buffalo has been horrendous defensively at home and it's not  like the Bears needed to rack up yards yesterday.  The 3 games they've lost have been by a combined 11 points. 

You're way overrating the Packers.

Bears are a tough team to figure. Because while you can note that their three losses are by a combined 11 points, you also can note that their five wins have come against teams that are sitting a combined 14-28. Their best win is a seven-point home victory against a .500 Seahawks team that was without its best receiver and four starting defenders, including a pair of Pro Bowl linebackers.

Certainly room for optimism, but also hard to say if they're for real at this point.

[Dish]

They may or may not be a very good team. We still don't know.

They just had 2 games on the road against maybe the two best teams in the NFL and had a very good chance to win both until 4th quarter fumbles.

The Bears are way overrated. 191 total yards yesterday?

Their game against GB was only close because they used and abused Kizer. If Rodgers doesn't get hurt, the game isn't even close. If GB beats Miami and Seattle - as I think they will - the game in Minny is for the NFC title.

Eh, the Bears offense was uninspired yesterday, but focusing on the yards is silly. They had multiple scoring possessions start well inside Buffalo territory. They didn't need to do anything to beat Buffalo other than show up.

The Bears are 5th in DVOA through last week and that won't go down since last week. I think they're still a year away, but they by far have the easiest schedule left between them Green Bay and Minnesota. With the Pack/Vikes tie, the Bears control their own fate in the North.

[jesmu84]

Bears-VIkings in Chicago Week 11 flexed to Sunday night.

Not great for the Bears who then have to play Thursday day against Detroit.

[jesmu84]

They may or may not be a very good team. We still don't know.

They just had 2 games on the road against maybe the two best teams in the NFL and had a very good chance to win both until 4th quarter fumbles.

The Bears are way overrated. 191 total yards yesterday?

Their game against GB was only close because they used and abused Kizer. If Rodgers doesn't get hurt, the game isn't even close. If GB beats Miami and Seattle - as I think they will - the game in Minny is for the NFC title.

I'm a big Bears fan. They're going to be up and down throughout the season with one-and-done playoffs as their best scenario.

But to point out total offensive yards in 1 game as a measure of a team's success or talent is an awful take.