MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: GGGG on April 13, 2018, 03:52:45 PM
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I'll start off this year's thread by pointing out college football's new kickoff rule. Now every kickoff that is fair caught inside the 25 yard line will be treated like a touchback and placed at the 25.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/04/13/ncaa-approves-biggest-change-yet-to-kickoff-rule/
My guess is the NFL follows suit within a couple of years.
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Seriously, what's the point of kickoffs anymore in that case.
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Seriously, what's the point of kickoffs anymore in that case.
For fringe NFL players to blast down the field and lay a hit. Then all the mouth breathers from Appleton want said player to be a regular, despite being wildly untalented.
That's the only reason for special teams.
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In other news, Sanchez getting busted for PED use may be the funniest storyline of the offseason
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For fringe NFL players to blast down the field and lay a hit. Then all the mouth breathers from Appleton want said player to be a regular, despite being wildly untalented.
That's the only reason for special teams.
(https://i.imgur.com/F2zh7G4.gif)
Alongside the meatheads from Chicago that call into post game radio shows.
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(https://i.imgur.com/F2zh7G4.gif)
Alongside the meatheads from Chicago that call into post game radio shows.
Absolutely. I'm a Packers fan. See the obsession over Jeff Janis as evidence.
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In other news, Sanchez getting busted for PED use may be the funniest storyline of the offseason
A 4 game ban before he can start not playing again.
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dez bryant released by cowboys-some mention of green bay smelling, but not touching. i don't think he would be a good fit in GB locker room despite the fact that they will need someone to step up for the loss of jordy nelson
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dez bryant released by cowboys-some mention of green bay smelling, but not touching. i don't think he would be a good fit in GB locker room despite the fact that they will need someone to step up for the loss of jordy nelson
Jordy was a addition by loss. Dez is 3 years younger and basically the same size. Except that he is toxic, where Jordy always seemed like a total team player.
I'm fine with them taking a cheap flyer on Dez for 3 years, and low money with a bunch of incentives... but it could also blow up and go really poorly.
Current WRs for Rodgers are decent, but no one that really extends the field. Cobb, Adams, and Graham are all possession guys. Jordy was the downfield threat (prior to the last two years) that made the offense work.
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I half forgot the draft is coming up next week. Feels like a weird draft this year, with what had seemed like it was going to be a good QB class being uncertain.
I know we talked about RB's in the top 10 last year, and I think Barkley is really an interesting decision for a lot of teams. With the Browns picking twice in the top 5, and the amount of QB's probably going in the top 10, it'll really help the Bears/Pack to have non QB talent fall in the top 15.
Nelson from ND seems to be creeping into top 6 category. Really have no inkling to what the Bears will do.
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I half forgot the draft is coming up next week. Feels like a weird draft this year, with what had seemed like it was going to be a good QB class being uncertain.
I know we talked about RB's in the top 10 last year, and I think Barkley is really an interesting decision for a lot of teams. With the Browns picking twice in the top 5, and the amount of QB's probably going in the top 10, it'll really help the Bears/Pack to have non QB talent fall in the top 15.
Nelson from ND seems to be creeping into top 6 category. Really have no inkling to what the Bears will do.
I'm hoping Nelson or trade down.
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Surprised there has been no comments on the Bears letting Meredith go. I was surprised and didn't like it.
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Surprised there has been no comments on the Bears letting Meredith go. I was surprised and didn't like it.
Completely replaceable.
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Surprised there has been no comments on the Bears letting Meredith go. I was surprised and didn't like it.
I like Meredith a lot and he should do well in NO's offense, but he's a pretty average WR and was coming off an injury.
The odd thing was that the Bears let him go for nothing but for an extra $1M on his tender, they could have gotten a 2nd Round pick back if anyone else signed him. It's hard to imagine that any team was going to give up a #2 to sign him though so they'd basically be assured of having him next season for $2.9M. My assumption is that they didn't necessarily want him back but they'd be willing to take him back if there were no other offers. An extra mil doesn't seem like all that much to see how he fit into Nagy's offense...but it's not my money.
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I like Meredith a lot and he should do well in NO's offense, but he's a pretty average WR and was coming off an injury.
The odd thing was that the Bears let him go for nothing but for an extra $1M on his tender, they could have gotten a 2nd Round pick back if anyone else signed him. It's hard to imagine that any team was going to give up a #2 to sign him though so they'd basically be assured of having him next season for $2.9M. My assumption is that they didn't necessarily want him back but they'd be willing to take him back if there were no other offers. An extra mil doesn't seem like all that much to see how he fit into Nagy's offense...but it's not my money.
Completely replaceable.
I don't disagree that he's replaceable and obviously he is coming off a serious injury. For a bit I thought the Bears used the $1.9 million tender to let another team negotiate a contract they would likely match but that didn't happen.
I guess what caught me off guard is they've now created another hole that they need to fill and they don't have a 3rd rounder in the draft. They still need to address edge rusher, the o-line, perhaps the secondary, perhaps the d-line, and now WR as well.
It was clearly more than they wanted to pay but they have a lot of cap room and the offer sheet he signed with the Saints didn't seem that prohibitive.
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dez bryant released by cowboys-some mention of green bay smelling, but not touching. i don't think he would be a good fit in GB locker room despite the fact that they will need someone to step up for the loss of jordy nelson
Amazingly quiet this many days after his release about who is actually interested in Dez. Apparently, only Baltimore confirmed to be. I would absolutely take him if I were Gutekunst. Dez, Graham, and Davante would be a fantastic trio for Rodgers. Dez is big and can still stretch the field. Yes, he's a diva, but I haven't heard of him being disruptive guy towards team chemistry.
I just don't know if Packers have cap space for him. Then again, I'd be fine with ridding themselves of Cobb's contract to make room for him.
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Amazingly quiet this many days after his release about who is actually interested in Dez. Apparently, only Baltimore confirmed to be. I would absolutely take him if I were Gutekunst. Dez, Graham, and Davante would be a fantastic trio for Rodgers. Dez is big and can still stretch the field. Yes, he's a diva, but I haven't heard of him being disruptive guy towards team chemistry.
I just don't know if Packers have cap space for him. Then again, I'd be fine with ridding themselves of Cobb's contract to make room for him.
Getting rid of Cobb is going to make it harder. The problem is that he’s likely asking for too much in guarantees.
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Getting rid of Cobb is going to make it harder. The problem is that he’s likely asking for too much in guarantees.
Which is funny because he is 29, trouble, and basically the same size and speed as Jordy.
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Man the NFL owners are about as out of touch as you'd expect them to be:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/sports/nfl-owners-kaepernick.html
Bob McNair: “You fellas need to ask your compadres, fellas, stop that other business, let’s go out and do something that really produces positive results, and we’ll help you.”
Compadres???
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Man the NFL owners are about as out of touch as you'd expect them to be:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/sports/nfl-owners-kaepernick.html
Bob McNair: “You fellas need to ask your compadres, fellas, stop that other business, let’s go out and do something that really produces positive results, and we’ll help you.”
Compadres???
This was good, right near the top of the article:
“Let’s make sure that we keep this confidential,” Commissioner Roger Goodell said to begin the session.
The New York Times has obtained an audio recording of the roughly three-hour meeting, and several people in the room corroborated details of the gathering.
The only surprise is that it took this long to be leaked.
I also liked "divisive" and "disastrous." Second cousins to dumb and dangerous.
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Vladimir Putin to Announce Vikings' 1st Round Pick
https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/4/25/17279252/vladimir-putin-to-announce-vikings-1st-round-pick?ref=yfp
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This was good, right near the top of the article:
“Let’s make sure that we keep this confidential,” Commissioner Roger Goodell said to begin the session.
The New York Times has obtained an audio recording of the roughly three-hour meeting, and several people in the room corroborated details of the gathering.
The only surprise is that it took this long to be leaked.
I also liked "divisive" and "disastrous." Second cousins to dumb and dangerous.
Jeff Lurie gonna get "uninvited" from the visit to the whitest of houses?
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I sense a Packers/Bucs trade coming.
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I sense a Packers/Bucs trade coming.
It'd take a fair amount of ammo, so it'll be interesting to see how the board breaks in front of them. Most places I've seen pretty clearly think the tier 1 talent level drops off around 9 or 10. All on board for trading up for a top DB or pass rusher though, if we can minimize impact to the rest of the draft capital
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What are Bears fans expectations/preferences at #8 tomorrow, assuming no trade up or down?
Not really going out on a limb but I expect it to be one of Nelson, Smith, or Edmunds. Edmunds would obviously be the biggest risk. I don't expect them to go with a DB after resigning Fuller and Amukamara but would also be fine with Fitzpatrick or Ward.
Hard to screw it up when 3-4 QBs may go before your pick.
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I think we could see some form of chaos if at 2 the Giants select Chubb. I think then a team like the Bucs might consider trading up from 7 to 3 to get Barkley. If that were to play out, the Browns would almost have to trade out of 4.
Who knows though, might be toughest top 10 to predict that I can recall.
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Can't wait for the draft to be over.
Used to be the worst day in sports.
Then it became the worst 2 days in sports.
Now it's the worst 3 days in sports.
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Can't wait for the draft to be over.
Used to be the worst day in sports.
Then it became the worst 2 days in sports.
Now it's the worst 3 days in sports.
It’s gone from something quirky and fun into something overblown and over saturated. Typical NFL.
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Trade down
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What are Bears fans expectations/preferences at #8 tomorrow, assuming no trade up or down?
Not really going out on a limb but I expect it to be one of Nelson, Smith, or Edmunds. Edmunds would obviously be the biggest risk. I don't expect them to go with a DB after resigning Fuller and Amukamara but would also be fine with Fitzpatrick or Ward.
Hard to screw it up when 3-4 QBs may go before your pick.
OL
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OL
Only one worth taking at 8 is Nelson and he could easily be gone.
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It’s gone from something quirky and fun into something overblown and over saturated. Typical NFL.
Overblown? yes, way overblown, but I like the draft. If you don’t, then don’t pay attention there are lots of other channels to watch and lots of other sports. Brewers are on a 8 game winning streak. I understand that for most teams the players drafted will not warrant all the hype we have had for the last two months, but for me I enjoy thinking about football in April.
As far as the Packers, I am hoping for one of Ward, James or Fitzpatrick in that order. Probably have to trade up to get one of them. Edmunds, Roquan Smith would be consolation prizes.
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Kinda enjoy overblown, hey?
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What are Bears fans expectations/preferences at #8 tomorrow, assuming no trade up or down?
Not really going out on a limb but I expect it to be one of Nelson, Smith, or Edmunds. Edmunds would obviously be the biggest risk. I don't expect them to go with a DB after resigning Fuller and Amukamara but would also be fine with Fitzpatrick or Ward.
Hard to screw it up when 3-4 QBs may go before your pick.
In all likelihood, 4 QBs and a RB will go before the Bears pick at #8. That bodes very well for them to get top 5 talent. Roquan Smith, Derwin James or Minkah Fitzpatrick should still be out there for them to snag. I'd love any of those guys. The Bears need playmakers and difference-makers. A guard isn't going to fit that bill. Therefore, I fully anticipate them drafting Quenton Nelson...or trading down and watching the player they want get drafted right ahead of them.
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Kinda enjoy overblown, hey?
No teeth behind that statement
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It’s gone from something quirky and fun into something overblown and over saturated. Typical NFL.
I agree. When it was one Saturday it was actually interesting for awhile.
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I agree. When it was one Saturday it was actually interesting for awhile.
Adolescent me lived for that Saturday. Plop down in front of the TV with my charts and draft board. Loved that day except when Sherman traded up for a punter in round 3.
But...even though 3 days is not better than 1, let me be the first to wish you all a Merry NFL Offseason Christmas (Merry NFL Offseason Festivus for MU82 and us other pagans)!
I am bummed that it's not in Chicago - the 2 years it was here, the Brewers played Chicago at Wrigley that weekend (do again!), so I could go 2 for 1.
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Overblown? yes, way overblown, but I like the draft. If you don’t, then don’t pay attention there are lots of other channels to watch and lots of other sports.
I generally follow this advice, and I won't be watching one second of the draft.
But when ESPN isn't advertising for its new streaming service, every other commercial is draft related. Huge chunks of Sportscenter focus on the draft. Even stories that have nothing to do with the draft end up talking about the draft. Of course, nobody is forcing me to watch ESPN, either.
When you live in a town with an NFL team but not a whole lot of other sports - like Charlotte, where I live - we are inundated with draft stuff. Every day, the Observer has 3, 5, 7 articles about it. Obviously, the interest is there or they wouldn't be covering it like this.
So I grit my teeth, avoid what I can and will be happy when it's over.
Kind of like the way a woman deals with 4ever's sexual advances - ha!
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Overblown? Has anyone seen the NFL network's programming line-up today? They even have a Red Carpet program.
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I think we could see some form of chaos if at 2 the Giants select Chubb. I think then a team like the Bucs might consider trading up from 7 to 3 to get Barkley. If that were to play out, the Browns would almost have to trade out of 4.
Who knows though, might be toughest top 10 to predict that I can recall.
I really don't understand why a team would spend the draft capital take Barkley so high, let alone trade up for him (not saying you're endorsing it, Dish). I think we've litigated this in the other NFL thread, but investing a top 15 pick in a RB just makes no damn sense.
1. The margin between the 3rd best RB and the 10th best RB is qualitatively less than other positions, and RBs are more dependent on circumstances to succeed than any other position. Here are the top 10 from last year in yds/attempt with a minimum of 150 carries: Dion Lewis, Mark Ingram, Kareem Hunt, Todd Gurley, Alex Collins, LeGarrette Blount, Devonta Freeman, Orleans Darkwa, Bilal Powell, Marshawn Lynch.
2. $$$. You can get extremely proficient runners on the cheap in free agency every year. How "good" the RB is just isn't that predictive of success. So by taking a RB at the top of the draft,you're foregoing the salary cap benefit of having one of your impact players at an important position locked into a rookie deal. Compare offseason deals for even decent QBs or edge rushers to offseason deals for RBs. Of the guys I listed, Lewis, Collins, Blount, Darkwa, Powell and Lynch were all signed to low risk, short term, inexpensive deals as FAs.
3. Injury risk/inconsistency. Of that top ten list, how many of those guys are likely to repeat? I'd be shocked if 3 of those guys are in the top 10 in ypc again in 2018.
4.. RBs are no more a sure thing than any other position. Of the guys I listed that are under their rookie deals, Ingram (28th) and Gurley (15th) were first rounders, Freeman and Hunt were 3rd rounders. Given 1-3 above, why put the risk of missing on your first round pick when the payoff is lower than with other positions?
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I really don't understand why a team would spend the draft capital take Barkley so high, let alone trade up for him (not saying you're endorsing it, Dish). I think we've litigated this in the other NFL thread, but investing a top 15 pick in a RB just makes no damn sense.
1. The margin between the 3rd best RB and the 10th best RB is qualitatively less than other positions, and RBs are more dependent on circumstances to succeed than any other position. Here are the top 10 from last year in yds/attempt with a minimum of 150 carries: Dion Lewis, Mark Ingram, Kareem Hunt, Todd Gurley, Alex Collins, LeGarrette Blount, Devonta Freeman, Orleans Darkwa, Bilal Powell, Marshawn Lynch.
2. $$$. You can get extremely proficient runners on the cheap in free agency every year. How "good" the RB is just isn't that predictive of success. So by taking a RB at the top of the draft,you're foregoing the salary cap benefit of having one of your impact players at an important position locked into a rookie deal. Compare offseason deals for even decent QBs or edge rushers to offseason deals for RBs. Of the guys I listed, Lewis, Collins, Blount, Darkwa, Powell and Lynch were all signed to low risk, short term, inexpensive deals as FAs.
3. Injury risk/inconsistency. Of that top ten list, how many of those guys are likely to repeat? I'd be shocked if 3 of those guys are in the top 10 in ypc again in 2018.
4.. RBs are no more a sure thing than any other position. Of the guys I listed that are under their rookie deals, Ingram (28th) and Gurley (15th) were first rounders, Freeman and Hunt were 3rd rounders. Given 1-3 above, why put the risk of missing on your first round pick when the payoff is lower than with other positions?
I agree with everything you said, and was all in last year when I said I personally thought it was stupid for not one, but two backs to go top 10. This year's draft is just weird, and I think a team like the Bucs would talk themselves into moving up for Barkley (who knows though).
It really depends on what the Giants do at #2, that'll change the course of the draft whichever way it goes. I personally don't think they take a QB.
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It’s gone from something quirky and fun into something overblown and over saturated.
Much like porn (from what I've been told).
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Oh Cleveland...
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Happy with Smith but would have loved to get the haul Tampa did at 7.
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Or the haul the Packers got at 14.
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Or the haul the Packers got at 14.
Yeah, that was a nice trade to get a future 1st. Strange move by the Saints.
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Yeah, that was a nice trade to get a future 1st. Strange move by the Saints.
Haul was worth it. Barely missed out in what many believed to be top tier talent in Derwin James
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Haul was worth it. Barely missed out in what many believed to be top tier talent in Derwin James
Go Bears :)
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It always comes down to the players involved but in the end, trading down 4 spots and getting a late 1st for a 3rd has to be a home run on the 'chart'. I'd expect the Packers to use some late ammo to move back into the 3rd.
I really think Gutty knew he had a reasonably priced deal with Seattle if he needed it. I wasn't following in real time but I'll bet Packer nation melted down when he went from #14 to #27. 'We need players NOW' kind of stuff.
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REALLY happy with Roquan Smith, been awhile since I was very excited about a Bears first rounder. Would have been nice to get a haul of picks to move back, but they got foreseeably a great piece.
Browns draft was interesting. My friends who are big Browns fans are actually pretty happy with the players, but felt they could have been had at a much better spot. Likely could have gotten Baker at 4, and Denzel Ward wasn't the consensus top DB on the board, so he could have maybe been had lower.
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REALLY happy with Roquan Smith, been awhile since I was very excited about a Bears first rounder. Would have been nice to get a haul of picks to move back, but they got foreseeably a great piece.
Browns draft was interesting. My friends who are big Browns fans are actually pretty happy with the players, but felt they could have been had at a much better spot. Likely could have gotten Baker at 4, and Denzel Ward wasn't the consensus top DB on the board, so he could have maybe been had lower.
I was giddy when the Colts took Nelson at 6. That opened things up for the Bears to take a non-interior O-lineman at 8. I'm ecstatic with the pick. Smith can flat-out play.
The Browns had picks #1 and #4 and didn't get a player with top-15 talent. Cleveland could have traded down, especially at 4, and stocked up some picks.
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I actually like the Mayfield pick. The other QBs strike me as Joey Harrington, Blaine Gabbert types. PFF also rated Mayfield #1 QB.
Ward was maybe picked 3-4 spots too high. But you have to find a trade partner and I don't think anyone 5-10 was looking to move up. Reports are the Bears made calls but who knows what offers were made.
Plus, there's the risk of Green Bay trading up to get Ward. I would have went Nelson at 4 but Cleveland obviously didn't agree.
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I actually like the Mayfield pick. The other QBs strike me as Joey Harrington, Blaine Gabbert types. PFF also rated Mayfield #1 QB.
Ward was maybe picked 3-4 spots too high. But you have to find a trade partner and I don't think anyone 5-10 was looking to move up. Reports are the Bears made calls but who knows what offers were made.
Plus, there's the risk of Green Bay trading up to get Ward. I would have went Nelson at 4 but Cleveland obviously didn't agree.
Yeah I think Mayfield has nearly as high a ceiling as everyone else, but also by far the highest floor. He has high accuracy at all levels of the field, escapability, good vision, and a fiery leadership style. The only think he doesn't have is ideal height and an absolute cannon, but he has a well above-average arm and his scrambling ability virtually negates the height issue. I'd take his innate QB traits easily over a guy like Allen with a rocket arm but compares most closely to Jake Locker/Ryan Mallett/Kyle Boller. QB is like being a pure PG in basketball. Either you have it between the ears or you don't. Extreme measurables rarely make up for a lack of QB-brain.
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Is Mayfield, as a college QB, that much different than manziel?
Saw the bears rumors about trading up. Had to be for Nelson or Chubb, right?
There are a LOT of talented players still left on the board for the 2nd round.
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Is Mayfield, as a college QB, that much different than manziel?
Saw the bears rumors about trading up. Had to be for Nelson or Chubb, right?
There are a LOT of talented players still left on the board for the 2nd round.
My assumption is that the Bears were one of the teams trying to move up to snag Chubb. A lot of calls were made to Denver once Chubb slipped past #4. Elway wasn't listening though. Word is that Pace was trying to move back into the late 1st as well. Not sure who they'd be targeting there.
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My assumption is that the Bears were one of the teams trying to move up to snag Chubb. A lot of calls were made to Denver once Chubb slipped past #4. Elway wasn't listening though. Word is that Pace was trying to move back into the late 1st as well. Not sure who they'd be targeting there.
Maybe Harold Landry? Lots of good players left at positions of need for the Bears if they stay put at 39.
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Maybe Harold Landry? Lots of good players left at positions of need for the Bears if they stay put at 39.
Yea, I think it's gotta be Landry. Wouldn't be surprised to see Pace make a move for him early in the second round.
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Maybe Harold Landry? Lots of good players left at positions of need for the Bears if they stay put at 39.
I thought it was for Mike Hughes. But, the Vikes took him. Pace and co did a ton of interviews and workouts with Day 1 corners.
A lot of talent on the board and at different positions, the Bears should stay at #39.
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In the was he a porn star category, Sam Darnold's grandpa's name is Dick Hammer.
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Is Mayfield, as a college QB, that much different than manziel?
Saw the bears rumors about trading up. Had to be for Nelson or Chubb, right?
There are a LOT of talented players still left on the board for the 2nd round.
Mayfield is a much thrower and on field decision maker than Manziel ever was. He has the best accuracy of any QB in the draft, and has alright speed.
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Mayfield is a much thrower and on field decision maker than Manziel ever was. He has the best accuracy of any QB in the draft, and has alright speed.
Yeah, plus Mayfield isn't known to be a raging alcoholic.
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I don't know if he's any good but the Packers win the 'coolest name' contest.
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Panthers end up going for record $2.2 billion to a hedge-fund billionaire who currently is a minority owner of the Steelers (he'll have to sell that stake, valued at over $100M). It reportedly was not the highest bid, but was the most "solid" because he was by far the richest bidder.
Hedge fund manager David Tepper is expected to sign a deal Tuesday to buy the Carolina Panthers for $2.2 billion in cash.
A source close to the process told the Observer that the deal will be subject to an owners' vote at the next NFL meeting, which runs May 21-23 in Atlanta.
The $2.2 billion would be a record for an NFL franchise, besting the $1.4 billion price for the Buffalo Bills in 2014. It would also match the $2.2 billion price for the Houston Rockets NBA team.
The Observer and other media outlets reported last week that Tepper was set to become the team's new owner, ending a more than five-month search for a buyer for the franchise that began play in 1995. ESPN reporter Adam Schefter also tweeted that the deal would be signed Tuesday.
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Panthers end up going for record $2.2 billion to a hedge-fund billionaire who currently is a minority owner of the Steelers (he'll have to sell that stake, valued at over $100M). It reportedly was not the highest bid, but was the most "solid" because he was by far the richest bidder.
Hedge fund manager David Tepper is expected to sign a deal Tuesday to buy the Carolina Panthers for $2.2 billion in cash.
A source close to the process told the Observer that the deal will be subject to an owners' vote at the next NFL meeting, which runs May 21-23 in Atlanta.
The $2.2 billion would be a record for an NFL franchise, besting the $1.4 billion price for the Buffalo Bills in 2014. It would also match the $2.2 billion price for the Houston Rockets NBA team.
The Observer and other media outlets reported last week that Tepper was set to become the team's new owner, ending a more than five-month search for a buyer for the franchise that began play in 1995. ESPN reporter Adam Schefter also tweeted that the deal would be signed Tuesday.
Man, I hope the author of that article holds onto that source. Having someone to feed you hot inside information like that can be very valuable to a sports writer's career.
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Panthers end up going for record $2.2 billion to a hedge-fund billionaire who currently is a minority owner of the Steelers (he'll have to sell that stake, valued at over $100M). It reportedly was not the highest bid, but was the most "solid" because he was by far the richest bidder.
Hedge fund manager David Tepper is expected to sign a deal Tuesday to buy the Carolina Panthers for $2.2 billion in cash.
A source close to the process told the Observer that the deal will be subject to an owners' vote at the next NFL meeting, which runs May 21-23 in Atlanta.
The $2.2 billion would be a record for an NFL franchise, besting the $1.4 billion price for the Buffalo Bills in 2014. It would also match the $2.2 billion price for the Houston Rockets NBA team.
The Observer and other media outlets reported last week that Tepper was set to become the team's new owner, ending a more than five-month search for a buyer for the franchise that began play in 1995. ESPN reporter Adam Schefter also tweeted that the deal would be signed Tuesday.
That's a lot of money to buy into a rapidly dying operation. ;)
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Latest report is that Tepper is paying $2.275 billion for the Panthers, a record for any pro sports team, $2.2 billion of which will be in cash up front.
I offered $2.3 billion, but could only afford $2 billion in up-front cash, so that explains why they didn't choose me!
I guess I should have invested in even more Apple when it was $90/share!!
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Latest report is that Tepper is paying $2.275 billion for the Panthers, a record for any pro sports team, $2.2 billion of which will be in cash up front.
I offered $2.3 billion, but could only afford $2 billion in up-front cash, so that explains why they didn't choose me!
I guess I should have invested in even more Apple when it was $90/share!!
insteada making the neighbor lady take the ornaments down, ya should have kept em and sold them at a garage sale and gotten enough cash to put you over the top. short sighted, brah.
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insteada making the neighbor lady take the ornaments down, ya should have kept em and sold them at a garage sale and gotten enough cash to put you over the top. short sighted, brah.
Darn. Shoulda had you as my accountant!
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https://deadspin.com/the-nfl-did-a-deal-with-jameis-winston-1827231925
NFL gets it right again!
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https://deadspin.com/the-nfl-did-a-deal-with-jameis-winston-1827231925
NFL gets it right again!
Winston seems like quite a character.
On a related note, the NFL fined former Panthers owner Jerry Richardson $2.75 million for being a douchebag.
Just a year or two ago, Richardson put up a statue of himself outside the stadium. There is plenty of debate on whether it should be taken down. I don't see why not. Why would you "honor" a guy who had to sell the team because he's a scumbag?
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In no way do I want this to become an actual football skills discussion, but Kristin Cavallari's new reality show premiered last night, and Cutler stole the show. I can't think of a better venue for his sarcastic indifference and dry humor than a corny reality show about her opening a new boutique. I literally laughed audibly multiple times.
https://twitter.com/verycavallari/status/1016088074386751488
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In no way do I want this to become an actual football skills discussion, but Kristin Cavallari's new reality show premiered last night, and Cutler stole the show. I can't think of a better venue for his sarcastic indifference and dry humor than a corny reality show about her opening a new boutique. I literally laughed audibly multiple times.
https://twitter.com/verycavallari/status/1016088074386751488
Between this show and Cutler's eventual move to the booth, I honestly think that the narrative around him will completely change over the next few years. He's a smart, funny, oddly likable guy despite how he's been portrayed by the media.
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Between this show and Cutler's eventual move to the booth, I honestly think that the narrative around him will completely change over the next few years. He's a smart, funny, oddly likable guy despite how he's been portrayed by the media.
I have never felt more connected to an athlete than I did when he said "I'm gonna be neutral".
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That was some of the best sixty minutes of television I've ever seen. The best part is, that's him, it was as if the cameras weren't even there, it was absolutely fantastic. Credit to the producers of the show for realizing they had gold on their hands with Cutler. I can't wait to keep watching.
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Chicago Bears have reported to training camp!
If the NFL team that you follow was not smart enough to fire their head coach and hire a new one for the sole purpose of getting an extra week of training camp, then it sucks to be you.
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Chicago Bears have reported to training camp!
If the NFL team that you follow was not smart enough to fire their head coach and hire a new one for the sole purpose of getting an extra week of training camp, then it sucks to be you.
The Bears start camp early because they're playing the Ravens in the HOF exhibition game. Each year the two teams playing in that game have the option to start camp earlier than other teams.
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The Bears start camp early because they're playing the Ravens in the HOF exhibition game. Each year the two teams playing in that game have the option to start camp earlier than other teams.
Right you are.
Wasn't there some kind of coaching change benefit? Or did I misread that somewhere?
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Right you are.
Wasn't there some kind of coaching change benefit? Or did I misread that somewhere?
Teams that change head coaches are allowed to hold an additional "voluntary" minicamp.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/is-aaron-rodgers-the-biggest-waste-of-talent-in-nfl-history
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/is-aaron-rodgers-the-biggest-waste-of-talent-in-nfl-history
Any thesis that uses passer rating as its base is a bad thesis. I mean, Russell Wilson has the second highest passer rating of all time? Cmon...
But should the Packers have won more with Favre / Rodgers? Yes. When all is said and done, the Packers will have 30 years with two of the best quarterbacks in NFL history but possibly only two championships to show for it.
But I'm not going to be that guy. Those championships were fun! And when you look at players like Marino and Sanders who never won one, I'm going to choose to be happy.
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Lions fan laughs at the notion. Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson, and Matthew Stafford have all been wasted. One playoff win in my lifetime.
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Any thesis that uses passer rating as its base is a bad thesis. I mean, Russell Wilson has the second highest passer rating of all time? Cmon...
But should the Packers have won more with Favre / Rodgers? Yes. When all is said and done, the Packers will have 30 years with two of the best quarterbacks in NFL history but possibly only two championships to show for it.
But I'm not going to be that guy. Those championships were fun! And when you look at players like Marino and Sanders who never won one, I'm going to choose to be happy.
Yeah, when Kirk Cousins! is #10 all-time, perhaps passer rating isn't the best metric to rate all-time QB play.
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Lions fan laughs at the notion. Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson, and Matthew Stafford have all been wasted. One playoff win in my lifetime.
Hard to argue on Sanders and Johnson. First-ballot HOFers, incredible talent and production. One playoff win.
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Any thesis that uses passer rating as its base is a bad thesis. I mean, Russell Wilson has the second highest passer rating of all time? Cmon...
But should the Packers have won more with Favre / Rodgers? Yes. When all is said and done, the Packers will have 30 years with two of the best quarterbacks in NFL history but possibly only two championships to show for it.
But I'm not going to be that guy. Those championships were fun! And when you look at players like Marino and Sanders who never won one, I'm going to choose to be happy.
This has been my view. I think McCarthy held his job as long as he has simply by having Rodgers on the team. I'm not ever going to be happy with just the two super bowls... its extremely disappointing.
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This has been my view. I think McCarthy held his job as long as he has simply by having Rodgers on the team. I'm not ever going to be happy with just the two super bowls... its extremely disappointing.
Nah. After dealing with the 70s and 80s and seeing franchises like the Lions, I’m going to look at the positive side.
Yeah I don’t think McCarthy is terrible, but I don’t think he is any better than “good.”
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Nah. After dealing with the 70s and 80s and seeing franchises like the Lions, I’m going to look at the positive side.
Yeah I don’t think McCarthy is terrible, but I don’t think he is any better than “good.”
Born in the early 80's I only had to watch a few dog crap packer seasons.
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One of my enduring Packer memories from the 80's is Lynn Dickey turtling and going down without a defender within two yards of him.
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Rodgers has absolutely been wasted.
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Rodgers has absolutely been wasted.
Farve was wasted too, aina?
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Farve was wasted too, aina?
Farve lost himself a lot of games. I can't say that for AR12.
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The only season I feel was “wasted” was the NFC Title game at Seattle. And that’s why Mac should’ve been left in the Seattle locker room. That game was 100% on him and we would’ve played a Pats team that we had already beaten that season.
Other than that it’s been a lot of injuries and you can’t do much about that. When you go into AZ with Jeff Janis and Jerad Abbrederis as your top 2 receiver options or go into ATL with Gunter having to shadow Julio Jones as your #1 DB you’re not leaving those places with a W.
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Farve was wasted too, aina?
LOL
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The only season I feel was “wasted” was the NFC Title game at Seattle. And that’s why Mac should’ve been left in the Seattle locker room. That game was 100% on him and we would’ve played a Pats team that we had already beaten that season.
Other than that it’s been a lot of injuries and you can’t do much about that. When you go into AZ with Jeff Janis and Jerad Abbrederis as your top 2 receiver options or go into ATL with Gunter having to shadow Julio Jones as your #1 DB you’re not leaving those places with a W.
I get the injury argument, but given what a steal Rodgers contract has been the last 4 seasons you have all the money you need to build depth which clearly TT did not. Further, all the talk out of training camp (other than injuries, AGAIN) is the rousing speech Pettine gave and how the accountability/vibe of the defense is different this year. So why couldn't they have done that 2 or 3 years ago to maybe give the D a chance to support Rodgers. I think Rodgers career has been largely wasted/taken advantage of by the Packers organization....they assumed they could roll Rodgers out there without paying for talent around him and Mac fell into the Holgren trap where he thought he was the smartest dude in the room and could get cute with things. If Rodgers doesn't retire with at least two rings, it will be tragic.
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I get the injury argument, but given what a steal Rodgers contract has been the last 4 seasons you have all the money you need to build depth which clearly TT did not. Further, all the talk out of training camp (other than injuries, AGAIN) is the rousing speech Pettine gave and how the accountability/vibe of the defense is different this year. So why couldn't they have done that 2 or 3 years ago to maybe give the D a chance to support Rodgers. I think Rodgers career has been largely wasted/taken advantage of by the Packers organization....they assumed they could roll Rodgers out there without paying for talent around him and Mac fell into the Holgren trap where he thought he was the smartest dude in the room and could get cute with things. If Rodgers doesn't retire with at least two rings, it will be tragic.
First things first - that wouldn't be "tragic." Yeah it would be disappointing, but let's not engage in too much hyperbole here.
But regardless, I do think that McCarthy was hampered by TT rigidly adhering to the build from within philosophy over everything else. Obviously that philosophy as a core base makes perfect sense, but you have to supplement your mistakes with free agents. I mean, that's what ultimately got them Charles Woodson right?
As for Capers, I don't know whether the failures were his fault cause the game passed him by, or if he also is a victim of TT's philosophy. I just know a change was needed.
I also don't agree that the Seattle meltdown was McCarthy's fault. If Julius Peppers doesn't tell Burnett to lie down after his INT, that is likely returned for a TD and the game is over. If Bostick plays the onside like he was supposed to, the game is likely over. I actually think that was one of the best schemed games of recent McCarthy era. They came into a very hostile environment and controlled 90% of the game.
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LOL
Constantly, aina?
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First things first - that wouldn't be "tragic." Yeah it would be disappointing, but let's not engage in too much hyperbole here.
Are you new to scoop? ;D
I also don't agree that the Seattle meltdown was McCarthy's fault. If Julius Peppers doesn't tell Burnett to lie down after his INT, that is likely returned for a TD and the game is over. If Bostick plays the onside like he was supposed to, the game is likely over. I actually think that was one of the best schemed games of recent McCarthy era. They came into a very hostile environment and controlled 90% of the game.
I think it was great pre-game planning and scheme building but I think that game represents all the flaws that have come to represent MM. He is almost the anti-analytics guy without realizing it...kicked two field goals from inside the 10 yard line including on 4th and inches. Also went uber-conservative with his play calling in the late stages, ran Lacy 3 times in a row out of Shotgun for net -6 yards up 12 with 5 min to go in the 4th. You get a first down there and the game is over.
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First things first - that wouldn't be "tragic." Yeah it would be disappointing, but let's not engage in too much hyperbole here.
But regardless, I do think that McCarthy was hampered by TT rigidly adhering to the build from within philosophy over everything else. Obviously that philosophy as a core base makes perfect sense, but you have to supplement your mistakes with free agents. I mean, that's what ultimately got them Charles Woodson right?
As for Capers, I don't know whether the failures were his fault cause the game passed him by, or if he also is a victim of TT's philosophy. I just know a change was needed.
I also don't agree that the Seattle meltdown was McCarthy's fault. If Julius Peppers doesn't tell Burnett to lie down after his INT, that is likely returned for a TD and the game is over. If Bostick plays the onside like he was supposed to, the game is likely over. I actually think that was one of the best schemed games of recent McCarthy era. They came into a very hostile environment and controlled 90% of the game.
I thought Mac coached the entire Seattle game from start to finish not to lose rather than going out and taking it. The players followed suit. The Packers had every opportunity to make that entire fourth quarter a formality, but Mac decided to take the air out of the football with about 26 minutes remaining in the game, after playing conservative in the red zone twice in the first quarter.
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Diggs 2 Skol 4 LongTime
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Are you new to scoop? ;D
I think it was great pre-game planning and scheme building but I think that game represents all the flaws that have come to represent MM. He is almost the anti-analytics guy without realizing it...kicked two field goals from inside the 10 yard line including on 4th and inches. Also went uber-conservative with his play calling in the late stages, ran Lacy 3 times in a row out of Shotgun for net -6 yards up 12 with 5 min to go in the 4th. You get a first down there and the game is over.
I thought Mac coached the entire Seattle game from start to finish not to lose rather than going out and taking it. The players followed suit. The Packers had every opportunity to make that entire fourth quarter a formality, but Mac decided to take the air out of the football with about 26 minutes remaining in the game, after playing conservative in the red zone twice in the first quarter.
OK I can see that. But I think ultimately if the players perform the way they are supposed to, that wouldn't have been a problem.
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OK I can see that. But I think ultimately if the players perform the way they are supposed to, that wouldn't have been a problem.
True, but it's the age old question of days a coaches mentality/disposition impact the performance in the game. Does Burnett slide down because the team is playing cautious, does Bostick make a play at the ball "just to be safe" instead of doing his job and counting on other players to do theirs?
I think MM is a very good coach when his brain isn't getting in the way.
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If Rodgers doesn't retire with at least two rings, it will be tragic.
Dan Marino winning zero Super Bowls was tragic.
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Dan Marino winning zero Super Bowls was tragic.
I don't disagree
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Dan Marino winning zero Super Bowls was tragic.
Well, he’d probably have one if he held the laces out. So it’s really his fault.
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Jake Ryan done for the year.
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Jake Ryan done for the year.
We made it like 4 days into training camp before we lost a defensive starter for the year. That’s pretty good for the Packers.
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Well, he’d probably have one if he held the laces out. So it’s really his fault.
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-10-2015/SSf-WE.gif)
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A pop-up window on the Chi Trib website (go figure) just started playing the 50 greatest Barry Sanders runs of all time.
After watching them all, I realized that if horse collar tackles had been illegal in Barry's day, the Lions would have had about 70 extra yards of offense per game.
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I don't know that Barry was the GOAT, bit you can't have the debate without including him. Walter, Jim Brown, Sayers, Dickerson.... yeah, Barry belongs in the conversation.
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-bears-roquan-smith-contract-20180801-story,amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
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Drew Magary on this upcoming season. He's probably right about most of this.
https://www.gq.com/story/the-nfl-isnt-ready-for-how-big-of-a-disaster-this-season-will-be
"And the worst part is that all of this was preventable. The NFL could have a simplified rulebook and it could have a consistently entertaining on-field field product if it had worked with its players and if it took on SOME liability for the dangers of the sport. And the NFL could have avoided this anthem crap entirely if they had worked with the players to institute an anthem policy everyone could live with (or better yet, if they ditched the goddamn pageantry altogether).
They have done neither of these things, because the NFL possesses a near superhuman tone-deafness and because it is terminally incapable of taking away the correct lessons from a PR crisis. And both the players and you, the viewer at home, will bear the brunt of that idiocy. The result is a coming 2018 season that promises to be more divisive and slovenly than any that came before it."
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Drew Magary on this upcoming season. He's probably right about most of this.
https://www.gq.com/story/the-nfl-isnt-ready-for-how-big-of-a-disaster-this-season-will-be
"And the worst part is that all of this was preventable. The NFL could have a simplified rulebook and it could have a consistently entertaining on-field field product if it had worked with its players and if it took on SOME liability for the dangers of the sport. And the NFL could have avoided this anthem crap entirely if they had worked with the players to institute an anthem policy everyone could live with (or better yet, if they ditched the goddamn pageantry altogether).
He raises some solid points, particularly about the rulebook. However, he's wrong about the bolded part. It would be impossible to institute a policy that "everyone could live with" because the players don't have a united front and not all of them are protesting for the same reasons. After Trump made his "SOB" rant, 200+ players protested, which was more a protest directed at the President as opposed to a protest of racial injustice. Even The Players Coalition imploded because they weren't aligned. Don't get me wrong, the NFL botched the anthem issue from the beginning and basically every step along the way since then, but it's very hard to appease a group that isn't aligned on their "demands."
As for the new helmet rule...it's awful. Watch some of these videos. Seriously, if they didn't circle the players engaging in a newly illegal hit, most of them would literally look like a standard NFL play.
https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/Fact-Sheet---Use-of-the-Helmet.aspx (https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/Fact-Sheet---Use-of-the-Helmet.aspx)
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He raises some solid points, particularly about the rulebook. However, he's wrong about the bolded part. It would be impossible to institute a policy that "everyone could live with" because the players don't have a united front and not all of them are protesting for the same reasons. After Trump made his "SOB" rant, 200+ players protested, which was more a protest directed at the President as opposed to a protest of racial injustice. Even The Players Coalition imploded because they weren't aligned. Don't get me wrong, the NFL botched the anthem issue from the beginning and basically every step along the way since then, but it's very hard to appease a group that isn't aligned on their "demands."
As for the new helmet rule...it's awful. Watch some of these videos. Seriously, if they didn't circle the players engaging in a newly illegal hit, most of them would literally look like a standard NFL play.
https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/Fact-Sheet---Use-of-the-Helmet.aspx (https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/Fact-Sheet---Use-of-the-Helmet.aspx)
We thought the "catch rule" was a joke, but it will pale in comparison to what happens this year with the new helmet rule.
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He raises some solid points, particularly about the rulebook. However, he's wrong about the bolded part. It would be impossible to institute a policy that "everyone could live with" because the players don't have a united front and not all of them are protesting for the same reasons. After Trump made his "SOB" rant, 200+ players protested, which was more a protest directed at the President as opposed to a protest of racial injustice. Even The Players Coalition imploded because they weren't aligned. Don't get me wrong, the NFL botched the anthem issue from the beginning and basically every step along the way since then, but it's very hard to appease a group that isn't aligned on their "demands."
That's a good point. The NFL should have just changed the whole pre-game to keep the players in the locker rooms. If they had done that two years ago, they would have received initial flak but the issue would be dead by now. That's how it used to be and is how college does it now.
They should look at college, and here is a good article as to why.
https://sports.yahoo.com/college-footballs-pregame-including-national-anthem-offers-better-fan-experience-wont-nfl-follow-201845084.html
"You know who wasn’t standing alongside him? Any of the Alabama or Georgia football players because as is the case with the vast majority of college teams (including all of the SEC, Big 12 and Pac-12), the players remain in the locker room during the pregame anthem.
The reason is, generally, two-fold, and neither is about avoiding protests. One is tradition; the players never have been on the field for the anthem and no one has seen a reason to change that.
The second is what’s called “game presentation.” Colleges do a far better job than the NFL in pregame hype and part of that is building crowd energy and noise into a crescendo that peaks the moment the ball is kicked off. It’s expertly choreographed.
As such, it’s better to get the anthem and other quieter items out of the way (they’ll do the dull coin flip with a couple of early arriving captains). Then, through an elaborate process that can take multiple songs, videos and an extended amount of time – including rituals as diverse as touching a rock and running down a hill or following a charging buffalo onto the field – they unleash the head coach and team. The crowd goes nuts. They kick off.
It’s awesome. The passion and pageantry is, quite often, the best part of the game."
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For the reasons stated above, I can't recall an upcoming NFL season I've been less enthusiastic about.
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The leadership in the NFL constantly challenges my belief that meritocracy and capitalism will correct most issues. I have no idea how anyone: owners, commissioner, PR head, etc can possibly be this dumb. They are going to kill the NFL as a national pastime and pretty quick too. There are three major areas of concern if they would be willing to make a firm decision in concern with the players on (player safety, simplifying the rule book, and the anthem stuff) they would be in great shape. Instead they try to walk some sort of wishy washy line that makes no one happy, it's mind boggling.
I'm sure some will view this as offensive or racist or political but I think it needs to be said....it's almost like the NFL thinks there is some monolithic majority group of white, alpha male, fervent patriotic, mouth breather types that is it's core constituency to the exclusion of all else. I'm sure there is a rabid group of fans that fall in that bucket but it is far from the majority of the fans and the NFL is seemingly hell bent for leather to reduce it's fanbase to just that group. It's the only thing that makes any logical sense to as to why they make the decisions they do.
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The leadership in the NFL constantly challenges my belief that meritocracy and capitalism will correct most issues. I have no idea how anyone: owners, commissioner, PR head, etc can possibly be this dumb. They are going to kill the NFL as a national pastime and pretty quick too. There are three major areas of concern if they would be willing to make a firm decision in concern with the players on (player safety, simplifying the rule book, and the anthem stuff) they would be in great shape. Instead they try to walk some sort of wishy washy line that makes no one happy, it's mind boggling.
I'm sure some will view this as offensive or racist or political but I think it needs to be said....it's almost like the NFL thinks there is some monolithic majority group of white, alpha male, fervent patriotic, mouth breather types that is it's core constituency to the exclusion of all else. I'm sure there is a rabid group of fans that fall in that bucket but it is far from the majority of the fans and the NFL is seemingly hell bent for leather to reduce it's fanbase to just that group. It's the only thing that makes any logical sense to as to why they make the decisions they do.
If that was the case, the NFL would ignore on-field safety concerns, fine/suspend all players who don't stand for the anthem and become 'Murica's National Pastime! (fires shotgun into the air)
I actually think the NFL is doing the opposite by trying to appease their entire diverse fanbase, which, as you stated, is making them "walk some sort of wishy washy line that makes no one happy." They want to protect the players from violence...while cashing in on violence. They want the players to stand for the anthem...but also respect their right to protest peacefully. They want to come down hard on players for off-field violations...depending on the general public's response to the transgression. There's no consistency in what they do and the relationship between players and management is terrible, especially compared to the NBA and MLB...leagues that guarantee contracts and do more to market their star players. $$$$$
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The leadership in the NFL constantly challenges my belief that meritocracy and capitalism will correct most issues. I have no idea how anyone: owners, commissioner, PR head, etc can possibly be this dumb. They are going to kill the NFL as a national pastime and pretty quick too. There are three major areas of concern if they would be willing to make a firm decision in concern with the players on (player safety, simplifying the rule book, and the anthem stuff) they would be in great shape. Instead they try to walk some sort of wishy washy line that makes no one happy, it's mind boggling.
I'm sure some will view this as offensive or racist or political but I think it needs to be said....it's almost like the NFL thinks there is some monolithic majority group of white, alpha male, fervent patriotic, mouth breather types that is it's core constituency to the exclusion of all else. I'm sure there is a rabid group of fans that fall in that bucket but it is far from the majority of the fans and the NFL is seemingly hell bent for leather to reduce it's fanbase to just that group. It's the only thing that makes any logical sense to as to why they make the decisions they do.
I have never seen an organization blunder simply PR like this one does. I think the biggest problem is that Roger Goodell is terrible at his job. He's done a good job at enriching the owners, which I'm not sure he should get much credit for anyway, and he's basically their stooge. So they keep him around. But he's not a visionary a la Rozelle. And he's not a guy who will crack the whip when he thinks the owners need to get in line a la Tagliabue.
I honestly think the reason they blunder so often is because things were so good for so long, that they can't change their world view. They simple cannot comprehend that people have alternatives other than the NFL. They haven't evolved as their audience has evolved.
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If that was the case, the NFL would ignore on-field safety concerns, fine/suspend all players who don't stand for the anthem and become 'Murica's National Pastime! (fires shotgun into the air)
I actually think the NFL is doing the opposite by trying to appease their entire diverse fanbase, which, as you stated, is making them "walk some sort of wishy washy line that makes no one happy." They want to protect the players from violence...while cashing in on violence. They want the players to stand for the anthem...but also respect their right to protest peacefully. They want to come down hard on players for off-field violations...depending on the general public's response to the transgression. There's no consistency in what they do and the relationship between players and management is terrible, especially compared to the NBA and MLB...leagues that guarantee contracts and do more to market their star players. $$$$$
Perhaps agree to disagree. IMO the NFL is doing the minimum it can to appease folks not in the grouping I described. That is literally why the anthem protest issue is still an issue
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Perhaps agree to disagree. IMO the NFL is doing the minimum it can to appease folks not in the grouping I described. That is literally why the anthem protest issue is still an issue
Care to expand? Just curious as to where you're coming from on that.
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Care to expand? Just curious as to where you're coming from on that.
It moves very slow on everything (it could have acted on concussions at least 3 years sooner but #touchfootballsucks cries), every step they take has one firmly planted in the old school and whenever it is a topic of purely social concern (DV, anthem protest, etc) their position change is pure lip service. Take the now suspended "new" policy on the anthem, it was not about addressing player concerns at all, it was all about hiding players that may offend NFL customers who cling to the "stand for the anthem or you're worst human ever" stance.
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They truly have embarrassed themselves on the anthem issue and now they almost surely will "lose" no matter what they do.
Jerry Jones is the biggest embarrassment of all (not including politicians), but there are plenty of other owners who are close.
Wouldn't it be something if every Cowboys player simply took a knee? What would JJ do? Forfeit the game?
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They truly have embarrassed themselves on the anthem issue and now they almost surely will "lose" no matter what they do.
Jerry Jones is the biggest embarrassment of all (not including politicians), but there are plenty of other owners who are close.
Wouldn't it be something if every Cowboys player simply took a knee? What would JJ do? Forfeit the game?
I certainly hope they do this.
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They truly have embarrassed themselves on the anthem issue and now they almost surely will "lose" no matter what they do.
Jerry Jones is the biggest embarrassment of all (not including politicians), but there are plenty of other owners who are close.
Wouldn't it be something if every Cowboys player simply took a knee? What would JJ do? Forfeit the game?
Dak Prescott seems to be tripling down on his comments. Not sure you will get your wish on this one, especially if the leader of the team is where he is on the issue.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24295381/dak-prescott-dallas-cowboys-stands-remarks-protesting-national-anthem
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Not saying this is the best issue to rally around, but the NFLPA is so weak, I doubt they will do anything in a unified way to confront ownership. This is why they caved the last time they negotiated with the owners.
Yet again though, I have no idea how the NFL can continue to have this issue bubble up. They could have quietly changed their pre-game routine 18 months ago to keep the players in the locker room. This would be a complete non-issue now.
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Not saying this is the best issue to rally around, but the NFLPA is so weak, I doubt they will do anything in a unified way to confront ownership. This is why they caved the last time they negotiated with the owners.
The next collective bargaining negotiations are going to be a disaster. Neither the owners nor the PA can find their @$$ with both hands, though I suspect the owners will be able to come together more quickly and resolutely than the PA.
I do have a bit of sympathy for the NFLPA in that I think they're in the most difficult position of any of the major sports players' associations in that its constituents have wildly divergent goals/needs (though if the MLBPA gave a damn about its minor leaguers, they would also be in a tough spot - ignoring them altogether has nicely solved that problem). Of the major sports, NFL players have the shortest careers, most lasting physical damage, least marketability outside a couple stars, and no other market for their services. In my estimation, that (plus the huge rosters of a limited number of teams) makes it tougher to balance the interests of Aaron Rodgers, LeVeon Bell, and a guard drafted in the 6th round vs most other sports.
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The next collective bargaining negotiations are going to be a disaster. Neither the owners nor the PA can find their @$$ with both hands, though I suspect the owners will be able to come together more quickly and resolutely than the PA.
I do have a bit of sympathy for the NFLPA in that I think they're in the most difficult position of any of the major sports players' associations in that its constituents have wildly divergent goals/needs (though if the MLBPA gave a damn about its minor leaguers, they would also be in a tough spot - ignoring them altogether has nicely solved that problem). Of the major sports, NFL players have the shortest careers, most lasting physical damage, least marketability outside a couple stars, and no other market for their services. In my estimation, that (plus the huge rosters of a limited number of teams) makes it tougher to balance the interests of Aaron Rodgers, LeVeon Bell, and a guard drafted in the 6th round vs most other sports.
Yep. Which means that the players have no real interest in the long-term health of the union. Do to the short careers, they have a limited window to earn their living.
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Yep. Which means that the players have no real interest in the long-term health of the union. Do to the short careers, they have a limited window to earn their living.
Which is how they ended up screwing themselves in the last CBA when they fought for the rookie contract scale. Since rookies become a largely known cost, teams would rather get 4 or 5 years of team control for a player who might become a bargin in the later years of the contract versus resigning or picking up free agents who are much higher cap hits even though the downside risk is somewhat lower.
I firmly believe this has also impacted the quality of the league....the movement to youth means that teams are having to teach their systems to new players all the time and with shortened off season training opportunities it takes until the 4th or 5th week of the season for the new players to "get it" plus they aren't prepared for the rigors of an NFL season so more injuries happen.
Not totally sure what the fix is but I do know there are all sorts of issues at there that the NFL/NFLPA needs serious leadership to resolve and instead we have a clown car that's maxed out in capacity.
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If that was the case, the NFL would ignore on-field safety concerns, fine/suspend all players who don't stand for the anthem and become 'Murica's National Pastime! (fires shotgun into the air)
I actually think the NFL is doing the opposite by trying to appease their entire diverse fanbase, which, as you stated, is making them "walk some sort of wishy washy line that makes no one happy." They want to protect the players from violence...while cashing in on violence. They want the players to stand for the anthem...but also respect their right to protest peacefully. They want to come down hard on players for off-field violations...depending on the general public's response to the transgression. There's no consistency in what they do and the relationship between players and management is terrible, especially compared to the NBA and MLB...leagues that guarantee contracts and do more to market their star players. $$$$$
I disagree, Merritt. The NFL has ignored player safety for decades, even in the face of overwhelming evidence. They only started coming around after the lawsuits started piling up. Without the lawsuits nothing would have been done.
The NFL absolutely does not want players speaking out. They are threatening them with fines and suspensions. Some owners want them kicked out of the league. The two guys who were the most outspoken have both been blackballed by the league and not even a single owner has stood up for them.
Come down hard for off-field transgressions? Yeah, awarding multi-million dollars contracts will really show these guys that they shouldn't be beating women.
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They truly have embarrassed themselves on the anthem issue and now they almost surely will "lose" no matter what they do.
Jerry Jones is the biggest embarrassment of all (not including politicians), but there are plenty of other owners who are close.
Wouldn't it be something if every Cowboys player simply took a knee? What would JJ do? Forfeit the game?
Jerry knelt last year with the team for a game. Then it became toxic, so he's done a 180. Clown. (Jerry, not you 82.)
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Jerry knelt last year with the team for a game. Then it became toxic, so he's done a 180. Clown. (Jerry, not you 82.)
https://sports.yahoo.com/dallas-sports-anchor-dale-hansen-blasts-jerry-jones-wearing-hat-national-anthem-230635060.html
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The NFL doesn't give a crap about the flag code. This is all stupid.
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Jerry knelt last year with the team for a game. Then it became toxic, so he's done a 180. Clown. (Jerry, not you 82.)
Apparently their QB agrees with him.
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Apparently their QB agrees with him.
Cubs fan and Cowboys fan?
Who else was a Cowboys fan on this site before? Hmm...
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Apparently their QB agrees with him.
Who cares?
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Interesting comments from AR on a few topics.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2790059-aaron-rodgers-discusses-anthem-protests-nfl-rule-changes-and-more
I think his comments on the franchise tag and cap are interesting though predictable for his situation.
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So is Khalil Mack actually available?
What would you be willing to give up from your franchise for him?
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So is Khalil Mack actually available?
What would you be willing to give up from your franchise for him?
One, if not both, of the #1 picks next year
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Cubs fan and Cowboys fan?
Who else was a Cowboys fan on this site before? Hmm...
And he's not a Cub fan, though he does hate their possible opponent in the NLDS - the Dodgers (or Doyers as he likes to call them). He's an Angel fan all the way.
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So is Khalil Mack actually available?
What would you be willing to give up from your franchise for him?
The talk on Twitter of the Pack trading for Mack is hilarious to me.
Sure, if you’re playing Madden, you could probably throw both next year’s #1’s to Oakland for Mack.
In the real world, it’s a trade that can’t happen as things exist today.
First off, Green Bay doesn’t have 2018 cap room to sign Mack to new paper.
Second, Green Bay has $38 mil next year in space with a ton of guys to re-sign.
Third, which is really first, is Rodgers still doesn’t have new paper. I’m sure it’d sit real well with Rodgers for the Pack to give Mack $45 mil guaranteed before taking care of him.
Fourth, it’ll be figuratively impossible under the cap to have Mack and Rodgers signed to two mega deals. I mean they could do it by cutting a combo of Perry, Bakhitari, Adams. They’d have to get both Mack and Rodgers to very creatively structure deals where each year they rotate massive individual cap hits, probably off set with more money up front which gets back to 2019 being a mess for them.
In a perfect football world, Green Bay makes sense, but in no way can I see it happening.
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So is Khalil Mack actually available?
would you be willing to give up your franchise for him?
As a bears fan, I would be for a 53 for 1 trade. So yes.
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Cubs fan and Cowboys fan?
Who else was a Cowboys fan on this site before? Hmm...
Cowboys fan? No. Where did you get that from? I said their (not our, not my) team's QB has been in the news for the last two weeks, one of the top stories on ESPN regarding this. Difficult to miss it. SI, USA Today, ESPN, Bleacher Report, all front page stories not buried deep on team stuff. https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/08/06/cowboys-dak-prescott-stands-by-national-anthem-comments
That team the most liked and most hated in all NFL, hard to ignore anything they do when the press does stories on them all the time on the main sites.
Who cares?
Appears much of the media since they cannot stop reporting that news.
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And he's not a Cub fan, though he does hate their possible opponent in the NLDS - the Dodgers (or Doyers as he likes to call them). He's an Angel fan all the way.
I couldn't tell you four players on the Angels. Trout. Ohtani. Pujols. ????
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I couldn't tell you four players on the Angels. Trout. Ohtani. Pujols. ????
NFL?
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Cowboys fan? No. Where did you get that from? I said their (not our, not my) team's QB has been in the news for the last two weeks, one of the top stories on ESPN regarding this. Difficult to miss it. SI, USA Today, ESPN, Bleacher Report, all front page stories not buried deep on team stuff. https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/08/06/cowboys-dak-prescott-stands-by-national-anthem-comments
That team the most liked and most hated in all NFL, hard to ignore anything they do when the press does stories on them all the time on the main sites.
Appears much of the media since they cannot stop reporting that news.
That’s right. You’re hoopaloop not Chico’s.
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NFL?
He said I was an Angels fan, after another said I was a Cowboys fan. Neither are true. This place can be a little off at times.
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which gets back to 2019 being a mess for them.
Can you elaborate because it doesn't look terrible to me?
According to Spotrac, they've got $35M in cap space next year and currently $6M for this year. Assuming that all gets rolled over, that will be $41M, less about $8M for the rookie pool leaves $33M in cap space. Their biggest FA are Mathews, Cobb, Clinton-Dix, and Wilkerson. Everyone else (Ryan, Montgomery, Rollins, Lewis, Kendricks, House...etc.) are just guys or restricted FAs. Mathews and Cobb will command much smaller deals unless they turn back the clock this year (unlikely) or won't be brought back. Wilkerson could go either way and, assuming he has a year more similar to 2016, Clinton-Dix will command a sizeable offer.
I agree that there isn't room to make Mack happen, which is just a twitter pipe dream, and it's clearly not as much space as they've had in some years prior (Perry and Graham aren't great deals), but it doesn't seem terrible to me, unless I'm just missing something (very possible). Of course, extensions for current players (Rodgers obviously or Dix) could also change the outlook as well, although so could cuts next offseason (Bulaga if he doesn't return to form although they don't have another answer there).
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That’s right. You’re hoopaloop not Chico’s.
What's a hoopaloop?
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As a bears fan, I would be for a 53 for 1 trade. So yes.
He said franchise, so you'd also have to throw in Ditka's mustache and the ghost of Sid Luckman.
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He said franchise, so you'd also have to throw in Ditka's mustache and the ghost of Sid Luckman.
well, Ditka's gotta coach Mack, ya know?
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Can you elaborate because it doesn't look terrible to me?
According to Spotrac, they've got $35M in cap space next year and currently $6M for this year. Assuming that all gets rolled over, that will be $41M, less about $8M for the rookie pool leaves $33M in cap space. Their biggest FA are Mathews, Cobb, Clinton-Dix, and Wilkerson. Everyone else (Ryan, Montgomery, Rollins, Lewis, Kendricks, House...etc.) are just guys or restricted FAs. Mathews and Cobb will command much smaller deals unless they turn back the clock this year (unlikely) or won't be brought back. Wilkerson could go either way and, assuming he has a year more similar to 2016, Clinton-Dix will command a sizeable offer.
I agree that there isn't room to make Mack happen, which is just a twitter pipe dream, and it's clearly not as much space as they've had in some years prior (Perry and Graham aren't great deals), but it doesn't seem terrible to me, unless I'm just missing something (very possible). Of course, extensions for current players (Rodgers obviously or Dix) could also change the outlook as well, although so could cuts next offseason (Bulaga if he doesn't return to form although they don't have another answer there).
The first move they should make is to get Rodgers settled. How his contract gets structured will really impact their numbers. I don't want to get into too many hypotheticals here with Rodgers, but I'd guess he'd sign a two year deal, so he can get another reset in two years. For ease of math, we'll just say he gets two years $60 mil all guaranteed.
If that was the case, his cap hit goes from $21 mil to $30 mil in 2019. He'd eat up $9 mil of that $33 mil that's roughly available (your numbers look spot on by the way). Pack would then have $24 mil left, and Dix is the main issue. If they were to franchise Dix next year, it'd be at roughly $11.5. I don't think they'll get to that point with Dix, I think they'll find a way to structure a deal to not make that hit be that hard in 2019 with him.
For ease of numbers, if they did franchise him, roughly $20 mil of the $33 mil available would be eaten up by new deals for Dix and Rodgers. Obviously that can get structured a ton of different ways to get more space freed up, but in 2018 they couldn't get Mack a new deal for this season anyway. If we take Von Miller's deal as a match, you can figure out a way to get Mack at $11-$12 mil in 2019, but then in 2020, you'd have Rodgers and Mack combined having roughly over 30% of the cap committed to just them, and that's with having to get creative with a Dix contract to make Mack fit in 2019.
I think Matthews and Cobb will both walk, which if I'm the Pack I'd do too. Age/value isn't there unless they took deep hometown discounts. Wilkerson will be interesting to watch. I'd expect him to have a pretty good year if his attitude is in check (which it should be so he can get paid again next year).
In a perfect world, Mack to Green Bay makes way too much sense not to happen. They've got the picks to make it happen, he'd be a force there, and he'd anchor that D for a long time. I completely agree with the Twitter crowd that would want that trade to happen, I just can't figure out how the numbers get the Pack there without depleting other areas of the roster.
The team that actually makes some sense for a Mack trade is probably the Bears. Trubisky has cost control for three more years, they have cap space in 2018 to absorb guaranteed money this year and the next three years before having to make a decision on Trubisky. To be clear though, I don't see the Bears making this kind of deal. Their lack of a second round pick next year doesn't help their cause either.
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Madden 19 tonight fellas, who’s on PS4?
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Madden 19 tonight fellas, who’s on PS4?
I am. But I haven’t liked a Madden game since about 2011. Don’t think I’ve bought one since maybe 15?
Only video game I really play anymore is The Show.
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I am. But I haven’t liked a Madden game since about 2011. Don’t think I’ve bought one since maybe 15?
Only video game I really play anymore is The Show.
I play Feefs, Chell,Forty, 2K, Madden, golf, & the show. Wuz goodie
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I play Feefs, Chell,Forty, 2K, Madden, golf, & the show. Wuz goodie
I do play 2K when the NBA first starts up but get kind of bored with it. Played the first EA Golf game for PS4 and thought it wasn’t very good. Even though I hate hockey I might get an NHL game, heard they’re always good.
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Thx for the response, agreed on all.
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Thx for the response, agreed on all.
It actually just hit me that there is a nuclear scenario the Pack could let play out to get Mack.
They'd have to let Rodgers play out his current deal and then franchise Dix in 2019. Mack's new deal could then get more front loaded in 2019. You'd basically have to let Dix walk in 2020 and then franchise Rodgers in 2020 and 2021.
It's nuclear in that you get 4 more years of Rodgers at a truly bargain price, but obviously you'd have to hope Rodgers buys into it. It'd be very ballsy of the Packers to do, but they would have every right to go that route per the CBA.
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It actually just hit me that there is a nuclear scenario the Pack could let play out to get Mack.
They'd have to let Rodgers play out his current deal and then franchise Dix in 2019. Mack's new deal could then get more front loaded in 2019. You'd basically have to let Dix walk in 2020 and then franchise Rodgers in 2020 and 2021.
It's nuclear in that you get 4 more years of Rodgers at a truly bargain price, but obviously you'd have to hope Rodgers buys into it. It'd be very ballsy of the Packers to do, but they would have every right to go that route per the CBA.
Why on earth would Oakland trade Mack?
The Raiders have him under control for three more years at relatively reasonable rates. While everyone involved would be happier to sign him long term, the fact is they don't have to and the worst consequence they'll face is him sitting out the preseason, a la Le'Veon Bell.
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Why on earth would Oakland trade Mack?
The Raiders have him under control for three more years at relatively reasonable rates. While everyone involved would be happier to sign him long term, the fact is they don't have to and the worst consequence they'll face is him sitting out the preseason, a la Le'Veon Bell.
I don’t have a good answer other than Jon Gruden wielding power there and trying to do something stupid. You’re of course right here, there’s contractually no reason for Oakland to renegotiate.
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Schefter is reporting Roquan should sign by the end of the day.
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Schefter is reporting Roquan should sign by the end of the day.
It'll be interesting to see who caved. As an aside, I don't see why the league and PA don't just standardize rookie contracts. Between Bosa and now Roquan, its really stupid to have wiggle room for teams to try to get cute.
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It'll be interesting to see who caved. As an aside, I don't see why the league and PA don't just standardize rookie contracts. Between Bosa and now Roquan, its really stupid to have wiggle room for teams to try to get cute.
Didn't they have the same agent?
Obviously Roquan is behind now but it's amusing he signed once they were done in Bourbonnais.
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Didn't they have the same agent?
Good catch, they do. To be fair, I got most of my coverage on the Bosa drama from Deadspin, which is very anti-team, but my recollection is that LAC was trying to get Bosa to agree to some atypical offset language.
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https://youtu.be/Vnl1YqcBQfg
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https://youtu.be/Vnl1YqcBQfg
The most amazing thing about this video is that Josh McCown is starting games in the NFL still 15 years later.
I remember hearing Larry McCarren doing play by play of that drive during the Packers broadcast.
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ESPN will not broadcast the national anthem for NFL or college this year.
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ESPN will not broadcast the national anthem for NFL or college this year.
Right move.
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ESPN will not broadcast the national anthem for NFL or college this year.
this will be very interesting to see how it plays out. on another note, has anyone else noticed that espn online has eliminated it's comment section after each article?
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this will be very interesting to see how it plays out. on another note, has anyone else noticed that espn online has eliminated it's comment section after each article?
A lot of places are doing that.
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The comments sections are the most wretched hives of scum and villainy.
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The comments sections are the most wretched hives of scum and villainy.
Only thing worse is college sports message boards. Talk about a bunch mouth breathing, gutter trash pieces of human excrement.
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Only thing worse is college sports message boards. Talk about a bunch mouth breathing, gutter trash pieces of human excrement.
Resemble very much.
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ESPN will not broadcast the national anthem for NFL or college this year.
Didn’t normally do it for the NFL anyway.
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ESPN will not broadcast the national anthem for NFL or college this year.
Smart. This was the norm for years and years and years. Broadcasting the anthem is a waste of airtime, and a display of faux patriotism.
Right now, the best argument for broadcasting the anthem is the news value because of players kneeling, raising fists, etc. But they can show footage of those players after the commercial break (or for SportsCenter later) if they choose to do so.
has anyone else noticed that espn online has eliminated it's comment section after each article?
Also becoming more common.
For many online publications, they had a choice: Let the comment stream become a free-for-all, or hire moderators to police it. More and more are choosing to eliminate the comment stream.
It's a good move, helps keep everything civil. There are plenty of outlets for those who want to vent.
Plus, most sites aren't willing to fork over the kind of big bucks that rocky and topper get here at Scoop!!
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Smart. This was the norm for years and years and years. Broadcasting the anthem is a waste of airtime, and a display of faux patriotism.
The whole "wrapping themselves up in the flag" thing started with 9/11. And some of that was cool and good, but now it's just gotten out of hand.
And of course, now that it is wrapped up with "the troops" it becomes completely unassailable.
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Was trying to decide which Panthers jersey I would add to my collection this season. Was leaning toward D.J. Moore, the No. 1 pick WR who has looked very impressive so far.
But then, this ...
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article217070340.html?#emlnl=Afternoon_Newsletter&id=bWlrZW5hZGVsQHNiY2dsb2JhbC5uZXQ=
I know everybody makes mistakes, and I was pleased to see the cop described him as “polite and cooperative,” but this is the kind of thing that always troubles me about "glorifying" athletes by wearing their jerseys.
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Was trying to decide which Panthers jersey I would add to my collection this season. Was leaning toward D.J. Moore, the No. 1 pick WR who has looked very impressive so far.
But then, this ...
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article217070340.html?#emlnl=Afternoon_Newsletter&id=bWlrZW5hZGVsQHNiY2dsb2JhbC5uZXQ=
I know everybody makes mistakes, and I was pleased to see the cop described him as “polite and cooperative,” but this is the kind of thing that always troubles me about "glorifying" athletes by wearing their jerseys.
That's why you always get the classic jersey. The only Packer's jersey I now own is a Ray Nitschke #66.
I know that limits the Panther-fan to someone like...I don't know...Jake Delhomme or Muhsin Muhammad. But you made your own bed there.
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Was trying to decide which Panthers jersey I would add to my collection this season. Was leaning toward D.J. Moore, the No. 1 pick WR who has looked very impressive so far.
But then, this ...
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article217070340.html?#emlnl=Afternoon_Newsletter&id=bWlrZW5hZGVsQHNiY2dsb2JhbC5uZXQ=
I know everybody makes mistakes, and I was pleased to see the cop described him as “polite and cooperative,” but this is the kind of thing that always troubles me about "glorifying" athletes by wearing their jerseys.
It was reckless and immature, but he was speeding on an empty highway at night. The kind of thing that you'd be pissed at your kid for or say "man that was dumb" about an acquaintance, but in the realm of things a young athlete could be involved with pertaining to the law, it doesn't do much for me. Not something you have to have a long talk with a young child about if they look up to #12.
I understand your point, but I was expecting something much worse before I opened the article.
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That's why you always get the classic jersey. The only Packer's jersey I now own is a Ray Nitschke #66.
I know that limits the Panther-fan to someone like...I don't know...Jake Delhomme or Muhsin Muhammad. But you made your own bed there.
Eye'd recommend only byin' jerseys of dead playas ta bee sure, hey?
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i've got a picture of Christ, saint joan of arc chapel, #66 framed, behind glass, hangin on my office wall next to a plaque of lombardi engraved with one of his greatest speeches, an aerial view of lambeau field at a monday night game, and a 3 x 5 foot MU warriors flag next to an iconic black n white picture of al-ray and rick. it always feels very nice walking into my business office first thing every morning
no worries about any of these guys making bad news going forward, eyn'er?
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That's why you always get the classic jersey. The only Packer's jersey I now own is a Ray Nitschke #66.
I know that limits the Panther-fan to someone like...I don't know...Jake Delhomme or Muhsin Muhammad. But you made your own bed there.
Tim Biakabutuka is the only option here.
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Tim Biakabutuka is the only option here.
I actually almost bought a Biakabutuka jersey as my very first Panthers jersey. Ended up getting Keyshawn Johnson instead.
Oh ... I'm a big believer in classic jerseys. Back when I was a sportswriter, I only wore jerseys of long-retired guys (Larry Csonka), dead teams (Minnesota North Stars, St. Louis Browns) or dead guys (Clemente).
But hey, I'm a Panthers fan, so, as sultan said, that's the cross I bear.
I might settle on Peppers - future HoFer, made his name with the Panthers, probably his last season.
I also agree that this wasn't the worst offense in the world by the young man ... but of course it could have been. Even though the road was empty, he could have lost control, crashed, killed himself and his passengers. I admit I'll still root for him, cuz that's what fans do, and I'll hope he has learned from this.
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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/28/could-nfl-use-an-18-and-16-approach-to-the-regular-season/
Expansion to 18 game schedule might mean limiting players to 16 games. Apparently kickers and punters would be exempt. Possibly quarterbacks too. (I wouldn't make quarterbacks exempt - more strategic that way.)
Likely means expanded rosters, which is a way to get the NFLPA involved.
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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/28/could-nfl-use-an-18-and-16-approach-to-the-regular-season/
Expansion to 18 game schedule might mean limiting players to 16 games. Apparently kickers and punters would be exempt. Possibly quarterbacks too. (I wouldn't make quarterbacks exempt - more strategic that way.)
Likely means expanded rosters, which is a way to get the NFLPA involved.
It's hard to believe this would fly.
Will Patriots fans know in advance which 2 games Brady isn't playing? Will Texans fans know which 2 games Watt isn't playing? And that's just the start of why I'm not sure this will get serious consideration.
As a Panthers fan, I sure wouldn't be happy to pay full price for a ticket when Cam and/or Kuechly aren't playing.
But I will admit that I am for anything that reduces the number of exhibition games.
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It's hard to believe this would fly.
Will Patriots fans know in advance which 2 games Brady isn't playing? Will Texans fans know which 2 games Watt isn't playing? And that's just the start of why I'm not sure this will get serious consideration.
As a Panthers fan, I sure wouldn't be happy to pay full price for a ticket when Cam and/or Kuechly aren't playing.
But I will admit that I am for anything that reduces the number of exhibition games.
What about gamblers? When does info become available?
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What about gamblers? When does info become available?
People might laugh at this, but now that pro sports leagues are going all-in on gambling, it's a legit point.
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WE'RE FREE! The Packers traded Hundley!! I'll never have to watch his stupid gum-chewing face again!
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WE'RE FREE! The Packers traded Hundley!! I'll never have to watch his stupid gum-chewing face again!
Eh. Not like it's much better with Kizer.
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Looks like they needed to trade Handley to clear some room for another QB contract. Glad this won’t be a distraction during the regular season.
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Sumwon wanted his ass, hey?
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That's why you always get the classic jersey.
Remember going to Farve's first game as a Jet. Literally 1/4 of the stadium were wearing #4 Jet Jerseys. Have always wondered what happened to them.
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It's hard to believe this would fly.
Will Patriots fans know in advance which 2 games Brady isn't playing? Will Texans fans know which 2 games Watt isn't playing? And that's just the start of why I'm not sure this will get serious consideration.
As a Panthers fan, I sure wouldn't be happy to pay full price for a ticket when Cam and/or Kuechly aren't playing.
But I will admit that I am for anything that reduces the number of exhibition games.
You really think theres only going to be 2 games JJ Watt doesn't play in?
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Are there any gum companies based out of Seattle? I need to invest if so. Between Hundley and Carroll gum sales are going to be through the roof.
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NFL is a bizarro version of the real world. You get to keep your job if you assault a kid or woman or dog but get cut if you get accused of insider trading.
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NFL is a bizarro version of the real world. You get to keep your job if you assault a kid or woman or dog but get cut if you get accused of insider trading.
White-collar crime is reserved for the owners only. Jimmy Haslam definitely knows this.
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NFL is a bizarro version of the real world. You get to keep your job if you assault a kid or woman or dog but get cut if you get accused of insider trading.
Or taking a knee.
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I don’t know who this Zach Jacobson guy is, but spreading this unbelievably false info that the Pack freed up $15.5 mil in 2018 on the Rodgers deal is comical. The amount of people on Twitter buying into this info is amusing.
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I don’t know who this Zach Jacobson guy is, but spreading this unbelievably false info that the Pack freed up $15.5 mil in 2018 on the Rodgers deal is comical. The amount of people on Twitter buying into this info is amusing.
No in fact I've been reading it's front loaded. So the Packers are trying to use cap space *this* year to free up space in the future.
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Does the $80M he's getting by end of March eliminate us from the Mack sweepstakes?
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Does the $80M he's getting by end of March eliminate us from the Mack sweepstakes?
If there was a straight trade for Mack right now, they couldn't fit him under the cap. But if they traded for him and reworked his deal to turn salary into a signing bonus, they could spread it out over more years.
Of course we are assuming that the Packers are even interested in Mack at the Raiders' asking price.
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Once the ink is dry, the Packers 2018 cap number looks like it will stay relatively unchanged after the Rodgers deal. The $15 million dollar number freed up is 100% false.
For clarity's sake:
Rodgers old deal base: $19,800,000 for 2018, bonuses $762,500, 2018 cap hit $20,562,500
Rodgers new deal base: $8,900,000 for 2018, signing/workout bonus $12,000,000, 2018 cap hit $20,900,000
For 2018, Rodgers cap hit is increased by roughly $300k. It did not free up any money, the Pack have roughly $6 million available for 2018 in cap space.
Because the Pack are not cutting Rodgers, as the ink is dry on the deal, they structured to give him the majority of the real signing bonus up front, hence his dead cap for 2018 is $57.5 mil. For cap purposes, they structured spreading out the actual bonus over the 5 years allowed by the CBA, that's why year 6 has no dead cap hit.
It's a fantastic contract for the Packers. In essence, it's really a 4 year deal, the Pack can walk away from Rodgers in year 5 with minimal damage if they wanted to.
Unless the cap goes up significantly (it may very well), on paper, 2021 poses a problem right now for them from a cap perspective. They'll need to re-up with Adams in the 2020 offseason to free up space, they'll have to probably cut Perry as well in that offseason. Assuming they cut Perry, Adams and Rodgers would together combine for (currently) almost 27% of the cap, and that's without new deals for Dix and Bakhtiari on the horizon (both will get paid top 5 at their positions).
If they cut Cobb, they'd free up $9 mil, so they could fit in Mack straight up for 2018 if he didn't agree to a new deal. They'd be hamstrung in using 2018 space to sign Dix or restructuring anyone else, but they could. A Mack deal would have to be structured to somehow ask him to play on his 2018 current deal, then boatload him $25 mil in 2019 and some heavy 2020 payment, and then they'd have some hard decisions to make in 2021. The problem is you'd let Dix walk and have little to no money in 2019 to spend elsewhere.
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If there was a straight trade for Mack right now, they couldn't fit him under the cap. But if they traded for him and reworked his deal to turn salary into a signing bonus, they could spread it out over more years.
Of course we are assuming that the Packers are even interested in Mack at the Raiders' asking price.
Someone remind me again ... why are the Raiders trading one of the league's best defensive players while he's in his prime and whom they have control over for three years?
(Hint: They're not).
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Someone remind me again ... why are the Raiders trading one of the league's best defensive players while he's in his prime and whom they have control over for three years?
(Hint: They're not).
Reggie McKenzie never would. The reason its a story is because everyone is inferring that Gruden is actually in control of all football ops, and is also totally insane.
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They'll only trade him if they get the equivalent of two firsts, which is what they would get if they tagged him as a RFA after this year and someone signed him to an offer sheet. The Packers (plus other teams) aren't going to give up that much and then tie him to a big contract. One injury that that becomes a horrid deal.
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They'll only trade him if they get the equivalent of two firsts, which is what they would get if they tagged him as a RFA after this year and someone signed him to an offer sheet. The Packers (plus other teams) aren't going to give up that much and then tie him to a big contract. One injury that that becomes a horrid deal.
I'd be very surprised if they even traded him for two firsts.
Again, we're talking about an elite 27-year-old defender who plays the second-most important position in the game and has an impeccable record on and off the field. And one the Raiders can keep for about $50 million over the next three seasons ... very reasonable considering the kind of guarantees Von Miller and Aaron Donald are getting.
Unless you get very lucky, you won't get that kind of value out of two first-round picks, especially considering that history says at least one of those two will not become a quality player.
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I'd be very surprised if they even traded him for two firsts.
Again, we're talking about an elite 27-year-old defender who plays the second-most important position in the game and has an impeccable record on and off the field. And one the Raiders can keep for about $50 million over the next three seasons ... very reasonable considering the kind of guarantees Von Miller and Aaron Donald are getting.
Unless you get very lucky, you won't get that kind of value out of two first-round picks, especially considering that history says at least one of those two will not become a quality player.
Yeah you might be right. I agree that I don't see anyway he gets traded.
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Yeah you might be right. I agree that I don't see anyway he gets traded.
Of course, one caveat here is that we're talking about the Raiders, a franchise not well know for rational decisionmaking over the past 20 years.
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I'd be very surprised if they even traded him for two firsts.
Again, we're talking about an elite 27-year-old defender who plays the second-most important position in the game and has an impeccable record on and off the field. And one the Raiders can keep for about $50 million over the next three seasons ... very reasonable considering the kind of guarantees Von Miller and Aaron Donald are getting.
Unless you get very lucky, you won't get that kind of value out of two first-round picks, especially considering that history says at least one of those two will not become a quality player.
Good topic. Is a known/quality player like Mack worth at least the value of 2 first round picks? Considering the "crapshoot" of draft picks?
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Good topic. Is a known/quality player like Mack worth at least the value of 2 first round picks? Considering the "crapshoot" of draft picks?
All depends on whether you measure his value against a new deal or the current deal + 2 franchise years, yeah? I wouldn't deal 2 firsts if I also had to give him a new deal. If I knew for a fact he'd play this year out and wouldn't sit out if I franchised him twice, then I could bring myself to part with two firsts, provided I had my QB locked in for the next 3+ years.
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I'd be very surprised if they even traded him for two firsts.
Again, we're talking about an elite 27-year-old defender who plays the second-most important position in the game and has an impeccable record on and off the field. And one the Raiders can keep for about $50 million over the next three seasons ... very reasonable considering the kind of guarantees Von Miller and Aaron Donald are getting.
Unless you get very lucky, you won't get that kind of value out of two first-round picks, especially considering that history says at least one of those two will not become a quality player.
That's assuming he doesn't sit/hold out.
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That's assuming he doesn't sit/hold out.
That would be leaving $50+ million on the table - not to mention endorsement opportunities - pissing away the prime earning years of his career and getting nothing out of it, since if he holds out for more than 10 weeks, his existing deal (and the two franchise tag years) carry over to the next.
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The biggest winner in the Rodgers signing is going to be Russell Wilson. PFT brought it up too, but if he does play out his final two years and doesn’t get hurt, he is going to break the bank if he plays 2020-2022 on the tag.
Wilson 2020 tag $30.3, 2021 $36.4, 2022 $52.4 (!).
From 2018-2022, Wilson would pocket $151.7 million. Wilson then hits the open market in 2023 to make another truckload (this all assumes he stays healthy and Seattle franchises him until 2023).
I wondered why any star player, especially QB’s, don’t just take on the risk/reward Wilson will with the franchise tag.
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The biggest winner in the Rodgers signing is going to be Russell Wilson. PFT brought it up too, but if he does play out his final two years and doesn’t get hurt, he is going to break the bank if he plays 2020-2022 on the tag.
Wilson 2020 tag $30.3, 2021 $36.4, 2022 $52.4 (!).
From 2018-2022, Wilson would pocket $151.7 million. Wilson then hits the open market in 2023 to make another truckload (this all assumes he stays healthy and Seattle franchises him until 2023).
I wondered why any star player, especially QB’s, don’t just take on the risk/reward Wilson will with the franchise tag.
Worked out for this guy:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/u9lRvDHmgRg/hqdefault.jpg)
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That would be leaving $50+ million on the table - not to mention endorsement opportunities - pissing away the prime earning years of his career and getting nothing out of it, since if he holds out for more than 10 weeks, his existing deal (and the two franchise tag years) carry over to the next.
You're right, but he is currently leaving money on the table by holding out.
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Well, Colin Kaepernick can't get on a roster, but he was a winner today (or at least not a loser).
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24526180/arbitrator-sends-colin-kaepernick-grievance-nfl-trial
PHILADELPHIA -- An arbitrator is sending Colin Kaepernick's grievance with the NFL to trial, denying the league's request to throw out the quarterback's claims that owners conspired to keep him out of the league because of his protests of social injustice.
Kaepernick, who led the San Francisco 49ers to a Super Bowl appearance and NFC championship game in consecutive seasons, argues that owners have colluded to keep him off any NFL roster since he hit free agency in 2017.
Burbank's decision means there was sufficient evidence of collusion to keep Kaepernick's drive going.
Interesting. And Eric Reid has a similar case pending.
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Two first rounders for Mack. Raiders gonna Raider.
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Oh well, please submit my bad posts to Frozen Cold Takes.
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Mack to the Bears
that's what teams can do when they don't have to pay a QB. Just like seattle.
Surprising that Gruden never even met with Mack once.
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A team that was going to take on a massive contract for Mack was going to need to have a QB on a rookie deal. I said a while ago that on paper the Bears made sense since Trubisky doesn’t get paid for a few years still. I didn’t think the capital made sense though for the Bears, especially with no 2nd round pick next year.
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Hope Mack acquisition works out as well as Darvish to Cubs has
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Quick initial thoughts:
I don’t expect the Bears to be a playoff team this year, even with Mack. Too much newness to the team in my opinion. Floyd is hurt, Smith had almost no preseason, Mack is joining five minutes before the season starts. I do fully expect them to contend in ‘19 however. Which gets to the big point, it’s really on Trubisky now. If he sucks, they will still suck. Lot of pressure on him even more so after the Mack trade.
Two 1’s is a ton, but this is a passer/pass rusher league, and to get one of the top three defensive players in the league in his prime was going to cost a ton. They have a ton of cap space, so hopefully they frontload his salary in year one to help offset the signing bonus spread. Issue becomes in years two/three, with no first rounder, Bears are going to have to spend in FA to address needs.
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Trubisky doesn’t get paid for a few years still.
He may never get paid. And if he fails to earn that big contract when his rookie deal is up, acquiring Mack won’t amount to very much. All about QB play in this league. Everyone knows it.
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He may never get paid. And if he fails to earn that big contract when his rookie deal is up, acquiring Mack won’t amount to very much. All about QB play in this league. Everyone knows it.
Which makes rushing the QB so valuable.
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I am going to choose to think of it that the Bears are 1-2 severe injuries away from being completely irrelevant for the rest of my lifetime. And I'm only 48.
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Which makes rushing the QB so valuable.
Great pass rushers are extremely valuable. But their value in the overall compared to a great QB pales significantly in this league.
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Bears certainly are giving up and paying a lot but this significantly improves an above average defense. With a young QB and an offense in transition, this makes more sense. Let's face it. One of the main problems the Bears have had vs. The Pack is they couldn't get AR off the field.
How are folks seeing the Pack defense this year? Hard for me to tell but was wondering how the homeowners are feeling? Fantasy sites have them 18-22.
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How are folks seeing the Pack defense this year? Hard for me to tell but was wondering how the homeowners are feeling? Fantasy sites have them 18-22.
Much improved at cornerback, solid defense line. Mostly suck however at LB, inside and outside and zero depth. Not to mention Matthews declining, he and Nick Perry always injured. That area needs to be addressed this weekend, hopefully in a trade (or two). They have a glut of talented WR's and can't keep them all.
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Someone remind me again ... why are the Raiders trading one of the league's best defensive players while he's in his prime and whom they have control over for three years?
(Hint: They're not).
Oops.
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Two firsts and a massive contract is a lot for Mack but he's an elite player that fills the biggest need on a young defense that was top 10 last year and also added Smith.
The offensive side of the ball has been completely revamped with new talent and coaching.
As mentioned, it ultimately comes down to Trubisky and his development.
If the Bears are picking in middle of the 1sr or lower the next few years the pain of losing those picks is considerably lessened, especially when the draft is such a crapshoot anyway.
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I’m shocked by what the Bears got back in that Mack trade. Holy hell, that 2020 second rounder will be a top 5 pick. Unbelievable, I have no idea what the Raiders are doing, this is highway robbery. That pick is huge, player control, tons of value, inexpensive, when the Bears have no 2019 or 2020 first rounder, if that is pick 33, my god, what a steal.
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Mack reaches agreement. 6 years, $141 mil. $90 mil guaranteed, $60 million at signing.
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I’m shocked by what the Bears got back in that Mack trade. Holy hell, that 2020 second rounder will be a top 5 pick. Unbelievable, I have no idea what the Raiders are doing, this is highway robbery. That pick is huge, player control, tons of value, inexpensive, when the Bears have no 2019 or 2020 first rounder, if that is pick 33, my god, what a steal.
Just a fantastic trade for the Bears. For the first time in a long time I'm legitimately excited about the season.
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Just a fantastic trade for the Bears. For the first time in a long time I'm legitimately excited about the season.
For kicks and giggles, say in 2019 the Bears go 11-5, lose in division round. Hypothetically, we’ll say that nets pick 26 in the 2020 draft. I think the Raiders are going to stink the next two years. Let’s say they go 4-12 in 2019, and have the third worst record.
Basically then the Bears are pick swapping pick 26 for pick 35 in 2020. They’re then only giving up a third in 2020 and a 6 in 2019, AND getting back a 5 in 2020.
That’s asinine the Raiders did that, I’m blown away.
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Just a fantastic trade for the Bears. For the first time in a long time I'm legitimately excited about the season.
Better hope the quarterback is better than he showed last year.
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Better hope the quarterback is better than he showed last year.
Yup. I’m not overly worried about the Bears being 11-5 in a year.
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Better hope the quarterback is better than he showed last year.
Rex Grossman led the Bears to a Super Bowl granted with an elite defense. 11-5 isn't completely that far fetched.
But it's the Bears so 7-9 would be par for the course.
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Very good news for the Bears. Bad news for the Pack and the Lions - they struggled to protect their QBs last year and this won't help.
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Better hope the quarterback is better than he showed last year.
Yup. I’m not overly worried about the Bears being 11-5 in a year.
Sure. Care to compare the coaching staffs and skill positions surrounding the QB last year vs. this year?
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Looking over the Mack contract numbers, it’s crazy team friendly. He’ll get a ton in 2018 upfront, but they can walk away in 2022 with a $6.8 dead cap, and $0 in 2023 and 2024. It gives them a ton of overall flexibility.
Their 2019 cap space right now is $13 mil. They’ll cut Dion Sims this offseason and free up an additional $6. They need to really only re-up Goldman and Amos next year and make a decision on Bobby Massie, but they can be active in the free agent market next year.
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Sure. Care to compare the coaching staffs and skill positions surrounding the QB last year vs. this year?
Go ahead. I’m sure it’s going to make a big difference.
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Go ahead. I’m sure it’s going to make a big difference.
I asked if you wanted to compare. Not many rookie QBs would have put up numbers with the talent and play-calling Trubisky had last year. Do you disagree?
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I asked if you wanted to compare. Not many rookie QBs would have put up numbers with the talent and play-calling Trubisky had last year. Do you disagree?
I said you better hope he's going to be better. If you are believing that the coaching and the talent around him is what's holding him back, well fine. I think the jury is out on both that and him.
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If Trubisky sucks, the Bears are going to suck with or without Mack, plain and simple. If Trubisky is good, the Bears have a chance to be really good.
I have no idea yet on him. I saw things Iliked last year, saw things I didn’t. Fox and Loggains didn’t necessarily do him any favors last year, due to injuries on the offense and poor plans/coaching for Loggains. Helfrich and Nagy are offensive guys, but are in new positions. They spent a ton on weapons for him this offseason. I need to see big steps forward this year, and if they aren’t contending by 2019, then Trubisky is the problem and not the solution.
If this gets brought back to Mack, if you’re the Bears, you make that deal any day of the week and twice on Sunday to get an in his prime, HOF tracking, premium elite edge rusher, with no offfield issues or previous injury concerns. A player of Mack’s caliber never hits FA, and the Bears stole him.
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If Trubisky sucks, the Bears are going to suck with or without Mack, plain and simple. If Trubisky is good, the Bears have a chance to be really good.
I have no idea yet on him. I saw things Iliked last year, saw things I didn’t. Fox and Loggains didn’t necessarily do him any favors last year, due to injuries on the offense and poor plans/coaching for Loggains. Helfrich and Nagy are offensive guys, but are in new positions. They spent a ton on weapons for him this offseason. I need to see big steps forward this year, and if they aren’t contending by 2019, then Trubisky is the problem and not the solution.
If this gets brought back to Mack, if you’re the Bears, you make that deal any day of the week and twice on Sunday to get an in his prime, HOF tracking, premium elite edge rusher, with no offfield issues or previous injury concerns. A player of Mack’s caliber never hits FA, and the Bears stole him.
I think this is a very good summary. And I don't blame the Bears for making that trade at all.
I do not understand the Raider's point of view. My guess is that they just wanted to get rid of the guy, but that's not usually a winning philosophy in today's NFL when the teams hold almost all the cards.
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I do not understand the Raider's point of view. My guess is that they just wanted to get rid of the guy, but that's not usually a winning philosophy in today's NFL when the teams hold almost all the cards.
As a Raiders fan I do not like the trade, but I do understand (though disagree) with the rationale.
Essentially, they didn't want to tie up about $45 million in annual cap space over the next three seasons on two players (Carr and Mack). Even with the cap projected at $190 million in 2019 and $200 million in 2020, that's still 24 percent and 22.5 percent, respectively, of your cap on two guys.
Also, I'm guessing they considered the fact that with Mack, their defense ranked 23rd, 26th and 22nd the past three years, so it wasn't going to get much worse without him (we'll find out).
I'd always figured that worse comes to worse, they just make Mack play out his rookie contract and tag seasons, and let him be unhappy about it.
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As a Raiders fan I do not like the trade, but I do understand (though disagree) with the rationale.
Essentially, they didn't want to tie up about $45 million in annual cap space over the next three seasons on two players (Carr and Mack). Even with the cap projected at $190 million in 2019 and $200 million in 2020, that's still 24 percent and 22.5 percent, respectively, of your cap on two guys.
Also, I'm guessing they considered the fact that with Mack, their defense ranked 23rd, 26th and 22nd the past three years, so it wasn't going to get much worse without him (we'll find out).
I'd always figured that worse comes to worse, they just make Mack play out his rookie contract and tag seasons, and let him be unhappy about it.
I read yesterday that “cash on hand” or rather a lack of cash on hand was the reason. They didn’t have the cash they needed to pay up front to make the deal.
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I read yesterday that “cash on hand” or rather a lack of cash on hand was the reason. They didn’t have the cash they needed to pay up front to make the deal.
How must you mismanage a NFL team to be so cash poor?
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I read yesterday that “cash on hand” or rather a lack of cash on hand was the reason. They didn’t have the cash they needed to pay up front to make the deal.
I've heard that rumor, but most of the beat writers out there say it's not true. Who knows?
But I think the Raiders 100 percent wanted him back until the Donald deal happened and Mack's agent said he wanted that and more. Whether it was cash flow or not wanting almost a quarter of the cap tied to two guys, it definitely was more motivated by the financial side of things than what happens on the field. Bears got a helluva player. And I hope they go 0-32 the next two seasons.
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We all try to do it, but predicting the NFL (aside from saying the Patriots will contend for the title every year) is never as easy as it seems on Sept. 1.
There are major surprises almost every year -- teams that are supposed to be very good suck, and teams that are supposed to suck are very good.
I'm no Bears fan, that's for sure, but I'd look at the 2017 Rams as inspiration. Jared Goff pretty much blew as a rookie and there were those who wondered if the Rams had screwed up royally with the pick. But he had a heck of a second season and combined with an excellent defense to help make the Rams one of the league's best teams.
What if Trubisky is this year's Goff and if Mack helps an already good defense become elite?
I agree with those who say it's all on Trubisky. If he progresses to play as well as a high-draft QB should, then they have the potential to be very good. If not, they're in trouble despite all they spent on Mack.
The same could be true of a lot of teams. I mean, my Panthers have as good a front 7 as there is in the NFL. If Cam plays like 2015 Cam, they can go back to the Super Bowl. If Cam plays like 2016 Cam, they are doomed. If Cam plays like 2017 Cam, they'll probably win 9-11 games but not seriously contend for the title.
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The landscape of managing the cap has evolved. Unless you have Rodgers, Brees, or Brady, you’re almost better off going all in and betting on a QB on a rookie wage deal and loading up while you have that flexibility. Look at the Seahawks (Wilson), Eagles (Wentz), Rams (Goff) as examples of teams taking advantage of their QB’s being good and cheap and either re-loading (Seahawks) or loading up (Rams). The one glaring example is the Cowboys inability to take advantage of Prescott’s deal.
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Folks, I hate to say this (maybe not, as I do have Bears season tickets) but the Bears are for real.
They've upgraded their offense and their Defense may be as good as the Urlacher led defenses that got them to the Super Bowl.
Trubisky remains to be seen but by all definitions, this team looks like a threat to the Packers and that scumball team from Minneapolis.
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Trubisky remains to be seen but by all definitions, this team looks like a threat to the Packers and that scumball team from Minneapolis.
A threat to win 7 games.
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Folks, I hate to say this (maybe not, as I do have Bears season tickets) but the Bears are for real.
They've upgraded their offense and their Defense may be as good as the Urlacher led defenses that got them to the Super Bowl.
Trubisky remains to be seen but by all definitions, this team looks like a threat to the Packers and that scumball team from Minneapolis.
Over/Under most places was 6.5 or 7 wins for the Bears.
No non-QB is worth 3 wins in a season.
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As a Raiders fan I do not like the trade...
You are the last Raiders fan standing...JG wasn't talking with Mack for months and wanted him gone. This is about Las Vegas and the long-term.
They waited to the end to sign up or sell as many tickets as possible and then gave their fans the Wisconsin Handshake.
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Over/Under most places was 6.5 or 7 wins for the Bears.
No non-QB is worth 3 wins in a season.
#2010JuliusPeppers
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The landscape of managing the cap has evolved. Unless you have Rodgers, Brees, or Brady, you’re almost better off going all in and betting on a QB on a rookie wage deal and loading up while you have that flexibility. Look at the Seahawks (Wilson), Eagles (Wentz), Rams (Goff) as examples of teams taking advantage of their QB’s being good and cheap and either re-loading (Seahawks) or loading up (Rams). The one glaring example is the Cowboys inability to take advantage of Prescott’s deal.
This is exactly right. Once you have a QB plan in place, especially cheap, you have to go all in because the window of financial wiggle room is narrow. Have to go all in when you think you have the QB plan, not after you know
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This is exactly right. Once you have a QB plan in place, especially cheap, you have to go all in because the window of financial wiggle room is narrow. Have to go all in when you think you have the QB plan, not after you know
Yup.
Seattle is the perfect example - both before you have to pay a QB and then after he gets the big contract.
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Rumors on twitter swirling that Bell might not come back till week 10.
Go pick up James Connor on your fantasy teams.
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Looking forward to he Cousins experiment.
My prediction.....implosion
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Cousins pretty good today.
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Nathan Peterman ought to be Plaintiff's Exhibit #1 in Colin Kaepernick's collusion trial.
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Myles Garrett and Denzel Ward were really good today, inspite of the Browns tie. We'll eventually find out if Mayfield can play, but that defense has potential to be really good soon.
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Geez, that was an ass whipping first offensive drive by the Bears. Easy to script the first drive of the season, can they keep it up though?
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Geez, that was an ass whipping first offensive drive by the Bears. Easy to script the first drive of the season, can they keep it up though?
GB trying to prove it wasn't the defensive coordinator that was the problem on defense.
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Nice win for my Panthers despite a string of injuries to important players. Dominated pretty much the entire game but messed up just enough to keep the Cowboys thinking they had a chance.
Otherwise, I couldn't believe how poorly N.O.'s defense played against T.B. They made Fitzpatrick look like Unitas.
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SKOL VIKINGS!!
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GB trying to prove it wasn't the defensive coordinator that was the problem on defense.
Yep. To be fair though Trubisky looks much improved.
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Good God Mac sucks.
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Coaching isn’t great but it’s not the main problem. Talent is poor.
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Good God Mac sucks.
Who's Mac?
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That didn’t look good.
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One team was ready to play; one team wasn’t ready.
That’s on the coach.
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That legit sucks on Rodgers. Hopefully it’s just a high ankle sprain and back in a couple weeks.
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Cheers Kizer
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Kizer time! Packers look like turds -- love it!
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Khalil Mack is a dude, what a play.
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Khalil Mack is a dude, what a play.
I giggled and beamed for about 5 min straight after that play. What a debut
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Mack again. Got damn!
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Jesus Christ, Mack, holy eff.
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I'm so giddy right now.
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Kizer...Hundley...whatever.
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Bears physically manhandling the Pack. The Mack trade already paying dividends.
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Love Bulaga just getting his ass handed to him constantly. Worthless even on the field.
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Jay Cutler and Kapernick are available
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No idea why Rodgers is going to come back in. Too much risk for a serious injury, and this game is out of hand already.
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Sounds like it could be just a bruise?
It's officially a knee injury for Aaron Rodgers. The Packers say his return his questionable.
Rob Demovsky, ESPN Staff Writer
11m ago
Jay Cutler and Kapernick are available
Can they play guard? ;D
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Sounds like it could be just a bruise?
Can they play guard? ;D
I'm guessing a knee sprain.
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Game could’ve been had if Mac had not decided to throw the ball on 3rd and 19 at the 30 with 50 seconds left and 0 TOs for the Bears down 10-0. Even if Rodgers can’t come back your defense had settled in, you’re not going to fool anyone with a “safe” screen pass, and you’re not picking up 19 yards. Run the ball and go into half down 10, even kicking off to start the half.
Those are decisions that are just blatantly obvious that an NFL coach cannot mess up.
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I think the Pack D has actually been pretty good since the first Bears drive.
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I think the Pack D has actually been pretty good since the first Bears drive.
Agreed.
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Wow.
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Crazy good pass/throw from Rodgers to Allison. Tip of the cap play.
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Game could’ve been had if Mac had not decided to throw the ball on 3rd and 19 at the 30 with 50 seconds left and 0 TOs for the Bears down 10-0. Even if Rodgers can’t come back your defense had settled in, you’re not going to fool anyone with a “safe” screen pass, and you’re not picking up 19 yards. Run the ball and go into half down 10, even kicking off to start the half.
Those are decisions that are just blatantly obvious that an NFL coach cannot mess up.
Agreed. Would be 13-10 right now.
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Packers defensive adjustments and Bears lack of offensive adjustments (after first scripted drive), making this a game.
Bears offense since first drive been somewhat predictable and too conservative.
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That FG was a terrible decision.
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That FG was a terrible decision.
Yup. Play it as if it’s 4 down territory. 3rd and 1.5 run. Gain anything go again.
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It’s his first game, but Matt Nagy has really not had a great night.
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3rd and 1 and your opponent has no timeouts, so you pass the ball? Same old Bears. What an idiotic move. Run the ball, probably get the first down. Then you take the clock down to under 30 seconds to kick FG.
Even if you don’t get first, clock doesn’t stop and then you kick or go for it on 4th and likely inches.
Such a poor decision, but that is why the Bears suck.
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That Matthews roughing call was weak.
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3rd and 1 and your opponent has no timeouts, so you pass the ball? Same old Bears. What an idiotic move. Run the ball, probably get the first down. Then you take the clock down to under 30 seconds to kick FG.
Even if you don’t get first, clock doesn’t stop and then you kick or go for it on 4th and likely inches.
Such a poor decision, but that is why the Bears suck.
How ‘bout dem Boiz?
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That Matthews roughing call was weak.
Ehh. It’s about where we’re at with the NFL. Can’t let them make that call if you’re Clay. Could’ve easily held up. He pulled back from the full hit but didn’t even need to make any contact.
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Bears down.
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Bad start for Nagy
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GOAT!
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I'm so giddy right now.
Me too.
God damn I love Bear fan and Packer haters. Congrats you won the first half!
Now STFU.
“This game will set the Bears back 100 years.”
—CC
Even the old lady was stunned!
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How ‘bout dem Boiz?
Always a great day when they lose. Smug owner, smug team riding on glory from 20+ years ago.
Looks like a bad year for the Cardinals. :'(
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GOAT!
Tom Brady
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Tom Brady
Patriots fans would totally argue tooth and nail it’s Joe Montana!
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No idea why Rodgers is going to come back in. Too much risk for a serious injury, and this game is out of hand already.
No idea?
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Kudos to the Pack, felt like a Bears blowout, especially without Rodgers.
I walk away from this with all kinds of Nagy/Trubisky questions. That was a really really bad plan/execution in the second half. You can only script that first series, lack of adjustments and some bad throws/decisions...ehh.
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As a person who doesn't care whether the Packers or Bears win or lose, that was one entertaining second half of football.
Rodgers, obviously, was the story. (Thanks, Capt. Obvious.)
Still, despite his heroics, the Bears win if Fuller intercepts that pass that hits him right in the hands. You have a chance to put away Rodgers -- as easy a chance as you'll ever get against him -- you HAVE to make the play.
Matthews almost gave it back with a totally unnecessary hit. I thought it was a legit call. The ball was gone well before the hit, Matthews had plenty of time to stop his own momentum, and he even got Trubisky up around the head/neck. I'd have called it for sure.
But Matthews was picked up by his teammates, while Fuller wasn't picked up by his.
I wonder how many non-Pack or non-Bear fans watched that second half. I mean, it was a long day of football already, and then it's 17-0 at HT with Rodgers seemingly gone not just for the game but for several weeks. Methinks that a lot of people missed one hell of a story.
Wow. That was fun.
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Kudos to the Pack, felt like a Bears blowout, especially without Rodgers.
I walk away from this with all kinds of Nagy/Trubisky questions. That was a really really bad plan/execution in the second half. You can only script that first series, lack of adjustments and some bad throws/decisions...ehh.
They were doing great going outside with Cohen, and playing the game on the edges. GB doesn't have the LB's to combat that.
They changed the game plan and struggled tremendously.
The injury to Rodgers forced him to get the ball out fast. He's been holding it too long and missing underneath options; this forced him to adjust for the better.
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No idea why Rodgers is going to come back in. Too much risk for a serious injury, and this game is out of hand already.
Whoops
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I’m failing to remember who to credit this to, but in ‘16 when Rodgers played with a bad hammy, he had to stay in the pocket more and I think ended up leading the league in TD’s. As odd as it is to say, he was way more dangerous after he got hurt. The hurry up helped offset the Bears pass rush, and he was just a surgeon in the second half. Still insist he’s the best ever I’ve seen at QB. Even against the Bears, just a treat to watch that dude.
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Whoops
That's why I'm not coaching.
Well that and a million other reasons.
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I was always a big Marino guy, but it's impossible to deny the handful of truly exceptional QBs ever to grace the game: Brady, Montana, Rodgers, Manning, Elway, Favre, a couple others. Special players.
25+ years with Favre and Rodgers as their QBs ... Packer fans are (as Burt Reynolds would say) lucky sumbitches!
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The amount of ways the Bears gave this game away was truly impressive.
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I'm not surprised that everybody is talking about how the superstar hurt his left knee and then came back to help his team win.
Nice job, Luke Kuechly!
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The amount of ways the Bears gave this game away was truly impressive.
I know it’s overreaction week, but I have real concerns about Nagy. Knock on him was his playcalling...great script to open games/lack of adjustments. I thought he got throughly outcoached, especially in the second half.
Either that, or he doesn’t trust Trubisky, which would obviously be a gigantic problem.
I get that it was his first game, but up 20-0 with 9 to play in the third against a division opponent with an injured QB? You have to win that game, period.
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I know it’s overreaction week, but I have real concerns about Nagy. Knock on him was his playcalling...great script to open games/lack of adjustments. I thought he got throughly outcoached, especially in the second half.
Either that, or he doesn’t trust Trubisky, which would obviously be a gigantic problem.
I get that it was his first game, but up 20-0 with 9 to play in the third against a division opponent with an injured QB? You have to win that game, period.
No doubt. But even with the questions regarding the play calling the lack of execution was an issue.
There were a lot of ways the Bears could have walked out with a win.
How they respond next week will say a lot.
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No doubt. But even with the questions regarding the play calling the lack of execution was an issue.
There were a lot of ways the Bears could have walked out with a win.
How they respond next week will say a lot.
Agreed, I think we’ll learn what this team is based on how they respond next week. I didn’t expect them to be a playoff team this year, but really interested to see their response Monday night.
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I know it’s overreaction week, but I have real concerns about Nagy. Knock on him was his playcalling...great script to open games/lack of adjustments. I thought he got throughly outcoached, especially in the second half.
Either that, or he doesn’t trust Trubisky, which would obviously be a gigantic problem.
I get that it was his first game, but up 20-0 with 9 to play in the third against a division opponent with an injured QB? You have to win that game, period.
I think he is being overly careful with him. They briefly opened the game up for him and he did really well with it. Stick with it.
The defense is going to give him lots of chances to win. But the keys need to be fully handed over to him and let him win or lose it.
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Me too.
God damn I love Bear fan and Packer haters. Congrats you won the first half!
Now STFU.
“This game will set the Bears back 100 years.”
—CC
Even the old lady was stunned!
God forbid I was excited to see my team playing well for the first time in 8 years...Just relax and enjoy your win, I didn't say anything that remotely resembled an attack.
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I know it’s overreaction week, but I have real concerns about Nagy. Knock on him was his playcalling...great script to open games/lack of adjustments. I thought he got throughly outcoached, especially in the second half.
Either that, or he doesn’t trust Trubisky, which would obviously be a gigantic problem.
I get that it was his first game, but up 20-0 with 9 to play in the third against a division opponent with an injured QB? You have to win that game, period.
Funny you say that-my sons and I do a group text throughout the games. We were calling for the firing of McCarthy and pettine, “F” bombs a flyin, checking channel guide for something to give me amnesia and then...bip bam pow zowie kaboom-dun-dun, dada dundun, go pack go! Slept like a baby and woke up with a full diaper ;D
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It was another one for the ages. So very many in the last twenty years. From Favre's heavily taped ankle to Cobb on the 4th down last play TD to Jordy down the middle on a last gasp to last night's one legged miracle.
The Bears are a much improved team and clearly threw the kitchen sink in those first 15. The Packers looked asleep and Bulaga had a ton of rust. And Mac asking for a Kizer screen on 3rd and a mile? SMH.
But in the second half, the best player in football earned every penny of the biggest contract in history. Game on. Season on.
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Oh, one more thing.........
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/3o7TKFZa9JRN1Fb40o/giphy.gif)
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That was the kind of devastating loss that could send a team into a downward spiral and a 2-14 season.
That would be a real shame.
Did I mention I'm a Raiders fan?
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It was another one for the ages. So very many in the last twenty years. From Favre's heavily taped ankle to Cobb on the 4th down last play TD to Jordy down the middle on a last gasp to last night's one legged miracle.
The Bears are a much improved team and clearly threw the kitchen sink in those first 15. The Packers looked asleep and Bulaga had a ton of rust. And Mac asking for a Kizer screen on 3rd and a mile? SMH.
But in the second half, the best player in football earned every penny of the biggest contract in history. Game on. Season on.
Nothing more than a choke job by an incompetent coach. Rodgers is the best, but last night that was silver platter given to Green Bay.
Article captures it to perfection. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-bears-packers-matt-nagy-rosenbloom-20180910-story.html
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Patriots fans would totally argue tooth and nail it’s Joe Montana!
49ers fans know it is Brady, and they can still remain 49ers fans without anyone questioning their fandom.
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If Fuller intercepts the pass that hit him right in the hands, most of the talk about Nagy being bad and some of the talk about Rodgers being GOAT would not be going on today.
I'm not saying Nagy is good -- how the hell do we know yet?
And I certainly am not saying Rodgers isn't at least a GOAT candidate; I have said repeatedly (including just yesterday) that he is in the handful of greatest-ever.
But a lot goes into every game. There are always 3, 5, 10, 20 plays that make the difference.
Rodgers (through no fault of his own, because the ball was tipped slightly and the receiver fell) put the ball right into Fuller's hands. Fuller will never have an easier INT attempt. He makes the pick, the game is over.
As an objective observer who doesn't give a rat's rump about either the Packers or Bears, if I have to pick one thing, that is the one thing I keep going back to. Make an easy pick, game over.
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Nothing more than a choke job by an incompetent coach. Rodgers is the best, but last night that was silver platter given to Green Bay.
Article captures it to perfection. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-bears-packers-matt-nagy-rosenbloom-20180910-story.html
That's an unnecessarily harsh article.
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That's an unnecessarily harsh article.
It's Steve Rosenbloom.
The same idiot who suggested Roquan Smith had character issues because his car got broken into.
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I know it’s overreaction week, but I have real concerns about Nagy. Knock on him was his playcalling...great script to open games/lack of adjustments. I thought he got throughly outcoached, especially in the second half.
Either that, or he doesn’t trust Trubisky, which would obviously be a gigantic problem.
From an unbiased observer, I think the unevenness gets straightened out as the season wears on. The scripted portion of the game was fun to watch, but it was complicated. It wasn't gadget-y, per se, but a ton of presnap motion, etc. I think Nagy's right to doubt that Trubisky is ready to execute that type of offense as a matter of course. But both Nagy and Trubisky showed a lot of promise together last night, and the Bears look like a team that gets better as the season goes on, not worse.
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Nothing more than a choke job by an incompetent coach. Rodgers is the best, but last night that was silver platter given to Green Bay.
Article captures it to perfection. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-bears-packers-matt-nagy-rosenbloom-20180910-story.html
Don't you need more than a 1 game sample size to evaluate a coach? Something in the range of 2-4 years for a professional coach, I would think.
Of course, if you've already written him off, that's fine too. I just wouldn't jump to conclusions quite so quickly.
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It appeared Mack ran out of gas a little bit, which is understandable. Plus, refs let linemen get away with holding like mad at the end of close games.
But Mack was a real force for most of that game, totally disruptive. And the rookie LB showed pretty darn well, too. And Trubisky showed some growth based on what I had seen from him last season.
All in all, if I were a Bears fan, I'd be optimistic today.
I thought the Packers defense got stronger as the game went on, and if I were a Pack backer I'd also be pretty optimistic ... as long as Rodgers is OK.
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Nothing more than a choke job by an incompetent coach. Rodgers is the best, but last night that was silver platter given to Green Bay.
Article captures it to perfection. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-bears-packers-matt-nagy-rosenbloom-20180910-story.html
Crybox article. The Bears made one mistake in the second half, failing to secure the interception as Adams fell. Could they have run on the 3rd down? Sure. But they had a good play called and Gilbert simply defeated it. Claiming that the Bears 'lost' diminishes the greatness demonstrated because ARodg and the Packers 'won'.
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It appeared Mack ran out of gas a little bit, which is understandable. Plus, refs let linemen get away with holding like mad at the end of close games.
But Mack was a real force for most of that game, totally disruptive. And the rookie LB showed pretty darn well, too. And Trubisky showed some growth based on what I had seen from him last season.
All in all, if I were a Bears fan, I'd be optimistic today.
I thought the Packers defense got stronger as the game went on, and if I were a Pack backer I'd also be pretty optimistic ... as long as Rodgers is OK.
Definitely ran out of gas a good bit, but give Bulaga some credit. He held up against him in the entire 2nd half.
The other aspect, was the ball coming out quickly and on time. GB QB's hold on to it too long often, waiting for something bigger to open...and then it doesn't and they get sacked. In the 2nd half, the ball came out quick and the lineman weren't left on an island trying to hold blocks for 5+ seconds.
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The knock on Nagy as a play caller was great at scripting, bad at adjusting. The last game Nagy coached was that awful loss to the Titans in the wild card round last year when the Chiefs scored 21 early, and then did nothing in the second half.
My concerns about him certainly reared their ugly head last night. I don't understand going for it on 4th and 4 earlier in the game, when Trubisky butt fumbled, but then with the game on the line, passing it on 3rd and 1, and then kicking an absolutely useless FG and giving Green Bay the ball back. Nagy kept insisting he'd be aggressive and not be conservative. He was flat out bad from quarter two on, and certainly supported the knock against him coming into this season.
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I thought the Packers defense got stronger as the game went on, and if I were a Pack backer I'd also be pretty optimistic ... as long as Rodgers is OK.
1. The defense gave up only 3 yards a play after the first two drives. Capers is gone because he never made adjustments.
2. We’ll see you guys in the NFL Championdship game
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1. The defense gave up only 3 yards a play after the first two drives. Capers is gone because he never made adjustments.
2. We’ll see you guys in the NFL Championdship game
If AR and Cam stay healthy, I certainly could see that happening.
Of course, the Eagles, Rams and a few other teams could have a thing or two to say about it!
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I think the useless field goal theory is crazy. Assuming the Bears fail to make the 2 yards, which is never any easy redzone play, ARodg has about an 85% chance to drive the team 50 yards for the game tying field goal. Forcing him to absolutely need a TD was the only play.
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I think the useless field goal theory is crazy. Assuming the Bears fail to make the 2 yards, which is never any easy redzone play, ARodg has about an 85% chance to drive the team 50 yards for the game tying field goal. Forcing him to absolutely need a TD was the only play.
Agree completely.
The wheeler-dealer in me says, Go for the first down and clinch the game. But the pragmatist says, Make an obviously hobbled AR drive the length of the field.
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I thought the Lions would be bad this year, but not this bad.
Bills and Cardinals are the two worst teams (we’ll see on the Raiders tonight) I’ve seen. Always feels easier to pick out the awful teams early.
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If you told me right now that Matt Patricia was fired tomorrow morning, I don’t think I’d blink an eye.
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Crybox article. The Bears made one mistake in the second half, failing to secure the interception as Adams fell. Could they have run on the 3rd down? Sure. But they had a good play called and Gilbert simply defeated it. Claiming that the Bears 'lost' diminishes the greatness demonstrated because ARodg and the Packers 'won'.
2:47 left, Packers have no timeouts, it is 3rd and 1.5.
The previous 5 running plays when the Packers knew the Bears were likely running the Bears got 2 or more yards on 4 of the 5 plays down the stretch.
If you run the ball and you are stopped, the next play happens with just more than 2 minutes to go. Or you get the first down, and the game is over.
Say you don’t get it, you likely have 4th and 1. The chances of two plays back to back not being able to get 1.5 yards with that big of a QB are very small.
Nagy reminds me of Crean, solid prep but as the game goes on he seizes up. He has been bashed today for a reason. That was awful coaching.
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Agree completely.
The wheeler-dealer in me says, Go for the first down and clinch the game. But the pragmatist says, Make an obviously hobbled AR drive the length of the field.
After he had just done it the series before and about 50 times in his career? It was not like the Bears had to go 7 yards, they had 1.5 yards and the Pack with no timeouts. There is nothing wheeling and dealing about it, the wheeler dealer play was passing on third down.
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After he had just done it the series before and about 50 times in his career? It was not like the Bears had to go 7 yards, they had 1.5 yards and the Pack with no timeouts. There is nothing wheeling and dealing about it, the wheeler dealer play was passing on third down.
I think we're on a slightly different subject here, or I misread something earlier.
All I was talking about was that there was nothing wrong with kicking the FG after failing on 3rd down.
But, yes, I would have run the ball on 3rd down. If I failed to make it, I would have kicked the FG.
With incredible minds like ours, c2, it's a wonder both of us aren't NFL coaches!
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The knock on Nagy as a play caller was great at scripting, bad at adjusting. The last game Nagy coached was that awful loss to the Titans in the wild card round last year when the Chiefs scored 21 early, and then did nothing in the second half.
My concerns about him certainly reared their ugly head last night. I don't understand going for it on 4th and 4 earlier in the game, when Trubisky butt fumbled, but then with the game on the line, passing it on 3rd and 1, and then kicking an absolutely useless FG and giving Green Bay the ball back. Nagy kept insisting he'd be aggressive and not be conservative. He was flat out bad from quarter two on, and certainly supported the knock against him coming into this season.
Saw a bit of rhat. He pulled out a lot of stops to start a game when every look was an unscouted one for the Packers defense. Then he settled in and never really pivoted.
That said, a lot of promising things for the Bears from this game. Smith and Mack will get up to speed and that defense has a chance to be really good. They have some great pieces at skill positions.
If there is one thing I worry about if I'm a Bears fan: I'm not convinced Trubisky is any semblance of the answer, and I have no draft capital left
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https://twitter.com/chosenJAUN/status/1038993562430578688
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Same old Lions.
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Same old Lions.
Actually that even looked horrific by Lions' standards.
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Every time they showed Patricia last night, he had a look of utter confusion, like he had no idea what the hell to do. I’m not even talking when they were down big. Early on, he just looked shell shocked.
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Florence is going to mess with a lot of NFL games.
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Florence is going to mess with a lot of NFL games.
Looking at the schedule, there's not many games in the path of the storm. Colts@Redskins for sure, but I don't think we'd see games in Cincy, Pittsburgh, or Tennessee affected since they're too far inland. Panthers@Falcons has a dome.
College football could get wrecked though, especially since there are a ton of east coast teams and they play a day closer to the projected landfall on Friday.
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Looking at the schedule, there's not many games in the path of the storm. Colts@Redskins for sure, but I don't think we'd see games in Cincy, Pittsburgh, or Tennessee affected since they're too far inland. Panthers@Falcons has a dome.
College football could get wrecked though, especially since there are a ton of east coast teams and they play a day closer to the projected landfall on Friday.
Cincy is Thursday night so I think they are clear. If Atlanta impacted it will be more the fans, travel. CNN just said Flo is projected to just stall over the Carolinas for 48 hours so it won't be a fast mover. I originally heard Pittsburgh would be impacted Sunday but that looks less likely now. Tenn might be in play but seems safe for now.
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Play any games that could potentially be hit by the storm on October 1, ai'na?
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Every time they showed Patricia last night, he had a look of utter confusion, like he had no idea what the hell to do. I’m not even talking when they were down big. Early on, he just looked shell shocked.
NFL.com's Mike Garofolo reports Lions veterans were "griping" about new coach Matt Patricia during training camp.
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Much of the Detroit and Michigan based media were reporting on players griping about the new coach.
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The Panthers have IRed both starting OTs, including a second-team All-Pro. Offensive line was the weakest position group coming into the season, so this really hurts. Plus, one of the best TEs in recent football history is out indefinitely. Injuries suck!
If they can somehow find a way to keep Cam in one piece, and with the way the defense plays -- best front-7 in football IMHO -- my lads can still have a very fine season. The 2 OTs could come back at midseason if they are healthy enough, and the Panthers are not putting Olsen on the IR hoping he'll be back eventually.
Did I say that injuries suck?
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Crean sucks
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Much of the Detroit and Michigan based media were reporting on players griping about the new coach.
Amazing how quickly he's lost the locker room....super excited for those two wins. ;)
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The Panthers have IRed both starting OTs, including a second-team All-Pro. Offensive line was the weakest position group coming into the season, so this really hurts. Plus, one of the best TEs in recent football history is out indefinitely. Injuries suck!
If they can somehow find a way to keep Cam in one piece, and with the way the defense plays -- best front-7 in football IMHO -- my lads can still have a very fine season. The 2 OTs could come back at midseason if they are healthy enough, and the Panthers are not putting Olsen on the IR hoping he'll be back eventually.
Did I say that injuries suck?
Can someone explain to me why the IR in the NFL requires players to be out 8 weeks before they can return. That's HALF the season. In MLB the DL is only 10 days (or 1/16th of the season) and even the 60-Day DL is only 1/3 of the season.
An 8-week IR means teams are very hesitant to put players on the IR, so mildly injured players remain on active rosters, and team depth charts get shortened. That decreases the quality of play, increases the likelihood of more injuries, and decreases the number of players with NFL contracts. I find it hard to believe a 3- or 4- week IR wouldn't be approved by the NFL and NFLPA...so why hasn't this been done?
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Teams are lucky now that they CAN return 2 players from IR after 8 weeks, they even upped it to 2 players.
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Can someone explain to me why the IR in the NFL requires players to be out 8 weeks before they can return. That's HALF the season. In MLB the DL is only 10 days (or 1/16th of the season) and even the 60-Day DL is only 1/3 of the season.
An 8-week IR means teams are very hesitant to put players on the IR, so mildly injured players remain on active rosters, and team depth charts get shortened. That decreases the quality of play, increases the likelihood of more injuries, and decreases the number of players with NFL contracts. I find it hard to believe a 3- or 4- week IR wouldn't be approved by the NFL and NFLPA...so why hasn't this been done?
Previously placing a player on IR meant they were out for the remainder of the year so this is actually improved. I believe the provision to bring one or two back started within the last couple of years.
I believe that there used to be a four game minimum IR back in the 1980s, but teams were limited in the number of players they could activate from the IR in a given year. I think they did away with that when they went to the weekly active and inactive rosters that are announced pre-game, which grew overall roster sizes. I think the thought was that the "inactive" list was meant for people with less than season ending injuries.
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You can just simply make someone inactive each week from the 53 if they are injured in the short term. Placing someone on IR means they are not part of your 53 each week, but count against your cap. Generally speaking, if you're on IR, something is really wrong with you. I can't recall where a player was put on IR with an iffy injury. It helps against roster manipulation I suppose, and it in theory increase more jobs because a player on IR doesn't count against your roster limit, so thereby you can bring in a street FA and they can be part of your roster.
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Once upon a time, there were far fewer restrictions on the IR. In addition, NFL players had the worst collective bargaining agreements in all of the major sports, and therefore the worst salaries/contract terms. So teams would just stash players on the IR who they didn't want to cut -- kind of like NBA teams used to do big-time in the 1980s and 1990s (and still some today).
Eventually, the NFL ended this practice by saying, "If you put a guy on the IR, he's done for the season." Teams had to be damn sure about it, and it stopped all IR-stashing situations.
But that was too restrictive and, as sultan said, the most recent CBA lets each team activate up to 2 players per season after 8 weeks on the IR.
To me, that still seems restrictive. Maybe let them activate 2 players after 4 weeks and 2-4 players after 8 weeks? Most teams wouldn't abuse it, and it would let more players come back from the IR without having to be carried on the 53-man active roster.
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I think the IR/roster limitations should be looked at again in the context of not rushing players back from injury. There is no doubt a health and wellness aspect of the NFL that needs to be addressed, especially with the current awareness of concussions, and it would make sense to look at how the NFL roster rules impact our long term treatment issues especially when bounced against the cap.
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I think the IR/roster limitations should be looked at again in the context of not rushing players back from injury. There is no doubt a health and wellness aspect of the NFL that needs to be addressed, especially with the current awareness of concussions, and it would make sense to look at how the NFL roster rules impact our long term treatment issues especially when bounced against the cap.
I guess. But that's exactly what the inactive list is for. To give players who are short-term injured a place to be "stashed" from week to week.
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Every time they showed Patricia last night, he had a look of utter confusion, like he had no idea what the hell to do. I’m not even talking when they were down big. Early on, he just looked shell shocked.
jim caldwell-
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I guess. But that's exactly what the inactive list is for. To give players who are short-term injured a place to be "stashed" from week to week.
The problem with the inactive list is that it doesn’t allow teams to add players to the 53 to replace them.
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The problem with the inactive list is that it doesn’t allow teams to add players to the 53 to replace them.
But that's because game rosters are set at 46 - and have been 45 or 46 for decades.
The reason they created the expanded rosters to 53, along with the seven inactives, was to create a place to stick players who are injured for the short-term. If more than seven players fit that description, they just move them to permanent IR after awhile.
I'm not saying it's the best system, just stating how the NFL got there.
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You can just simply make someone inactive each week from the 53 if they are injured in the short term. Placing someone on IR means they are not part of your 53 each week, but count against your cap. Generally speaking, if you're on IR, something is really wrong with you. I can't recall where a player was put on IR with an iffy injury. It helps against roster manipulation I suppose, and it in theory increase more jobs because a player on IR doesn't count against your roster limit, so thereby you can bring in a street FA and they can be part of your roster.
Teams do use IR to game the bottom of the roster. They can stash talent if said talent is comfortable waiting til next year for their shot OR gets healthy later on and is released with injury settlement and resign them a but later on (IIRC, there's a waiting period).
But as a general rule, the NFL rules do a decent job that you're only IR'd if you have a major injury.
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Teams do use IR to game the bottom of the roster. They can stash talent if said talent is comfortable waiting til next year for their shot OR gets healthy later on and is released with injury settlement and resign them a but later on (IIRC, there's a waiting period).
But as a general rule, the NFL rules do a decent job that you're only IR'd if you have a major injury.
I think the Packers did that with the long snapper last year. They had a injury settlement than then resigned him after 4 weeks or something.
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Little off topic, but this is the first time I haven't played fantasy football in years, and I've never been happier.
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Little off topic, but this is the first time I haven't played fantasy football in years, and I've never been happier.
I quit last year and feel the same way.
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Little off topic, but this is the first time I haven't played fantasy football in years, and I've never been happier.
I ran a league from 1987-93. When I decided it was too much work, I played in somebody else's league for 2 years. Then I decided if I wanted to bet on football, I'd just bet on football.
It was a great decision. Don't miss it one iota.
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draft kings can be as cheap or as expensive or as risky as ya want it to be. i use it mostly for golf, some football and a little baseball. i still refer to it as a sports lottery as opposed to gambling. but it does stoke one's interest in ever aspect of the competition which is what i assume most people are after...oh, and to just win $$$ baby. bovada for the serious bets, but careful of the casino. i did however hit a few nice bonus rounds on the dragon slots and collected before i gave it back.
i still get locked out(draft kings) when i try to enter competition while in Az, if i'm already in, say make my selections while in wisconsin, then go down to Az, i'm ok. i'm wondering if that google extension thingy would trick draft kings into thinking i'm in wisconsin while doing my picks in Az-anyone have a thought?
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interesting little stat-heard from a pretty well known sports line service-
over the last ? years, teams that were +5 on the turn-over side are 137-4-1
cleveland has 2 of the losses and the tie which they accomplished last sunday against pittsburgh 21-21
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I did not realize that the Packers require a ticket for a 3 month old.
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2018/09/16/nfls-green-bay-packers-need-to-revamp-ticket-policy-for-infants-new-mom-says.html
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I did not realize that the Packers require a ticket for a 3 month old.
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2018/09/16/nfls-green-bay-packers-need-to-revamp-ticket-policy-for-infants-new-mom-says.html
Leave the kid at home.
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Leave the kid at home.
Sexist woman hater
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Leave the kid at home.
I agree, and if you can't find someone to watch the kid you stay home too.
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I agree, and if you can't find someone to watch the kid you stay home too.
Disagree. A woman should have the right to feed her baby as she sees fit. If she wants to breastfeed exclusively, she needs to be able to take her baby with her.
A woman should not have to choose between having a social life and caring for her child.
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Write on, free da nipple, hey?
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Disagree. A woman should have the right to feed her baby as she sees fit. If she wants to breastfeed exclusively, she needs to be able to take her baby with her.
A woman should not have to choose between having a social life and caring for her child.
Yeah life is full of such choices.
Anyway bring the little kid, just pay for the ticket. And stop publicly trying to shame the team.
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Disagree. A woman should have the right to feed her baby as she sees fit. If she wants to breastfeed exclusively, she needs to be able to take her baby with her.
A woman should not have to choose between having a social life and caring for her child.
You don't have to choose. My wife is at the Fireside right now and I'm at home with our daughter. Her diet since birth has been breast milk and (in the past month) rice cereal made with breast milk.
Insurance covers breast pumping machines. The milk can be frozen for months. It's more effort, but a woman can work and have a social life as long as she has supportive people in her life.
Granted, it can be far harder for a single mom, & I fully understand different families have extenuating circumstances, but breast feeding does not require 100% mom/baby contact. If a woman wants to bring her child or breast feed in her social life, I'm fine with that, but it is possible to do both separately.
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Disagree. A woman should have the right to feed her baby as she sees fit. If she wants to breastfeed exclusively, she needs to be able to take her baby with her.
A woman should not have to choose between having a social life and caring for her child.
Saw this post and was like, how the hell did we get to here in an NFL football thread.
Yeah life is full of such choices.
Anyway bring the little kid, just pay for the ticket. And stop publicly trying to shame the team.
Sultan is right. No reason both stances cannot be supported.
Frankly, a 3-month old does not have a lot of business being at an NFL football game. I personally think bringing the child is a bad idea...but, not my kid.
As Lazar says, a woman does have the right to feed their child in any way they see fit (as long as it is not hurting the well being of the child). She can do so by buying a ticket for her child. Problem solved.
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Is playing Erin today #DumbAndDangerous?
SKOL VIKINGS!
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Saw this post and was like, how the hell did we get to here in an NFL football thread.
I started a new thread so this didn't run overly into NFL, if anyone wants to continue the discussion.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56615.0
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I LIKE THAT!
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Chargers are averaging 10 yards per play so far on offense. This Bills team has 0-16 potential.
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Horrendous missed DPI.
Even worse called OP.
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I like how the Pack D is swarming so far today, look a lot more cohesive than last week which is what I was hoping for.
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Glad the Pack locked up Davante. Ooooeeee is he something.
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The Pack have the Saints first round pick in ‘19.
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The Pack have the Saints first round pick in ‘19.
Browns are gonna Browns it. Side note, while not spectacular Tyrod Taylor has always been a pretty solid QB.
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The Bears traded up for Trubisky instead of trading down for Mahomes.
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I LIKE THAT!
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What the eff is Mac doing?
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Some big time throws from Cousins.
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I don’t know how many times I’ll say this, but Mac should not coach another game for the Packers.
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NOW you run the ball?! Holy hell.
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What the eff is Mac doing?
Play calls were fine. I don’t know if that was roughing the QB. And that’s really part of the problem.
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Play calls were fine. I don’t know if that was roughing the QB. And that’s really part of the problem.
I’m fine with a throw on 2nd. 3rd and 15? Make them take a timeout or run the clock. That’s as bad as it gets.
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I’m fine with a throw on 2nd. 3rd and 15? Make them take a timeout or run the clock. That’s as bad as it gets.
It was fine. It didn’t matter in the end.
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You Vike That?! Skol! #Consensus
Now we’ve gotta finish them off (nh)
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It was fine. It didn’t matter in the end.
So the field goal Mason made after they took their final timeout wouldn’t have changed the outcome of this game?
lol.
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So the field goal Mason made before they took their final time out wouldn’t have changed the outcome of this game?
lol.
He should have made it anyway.
You complain too much.
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He should have made it anyway.
You complain too much.
Good dodge.
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Good dodge.
Not dodging anything. It didn’t make a difference. He should have made it.
I’m glad they went for the win. What happened afterwards proves the idea was a good one. His defense is gassed.
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Not dodging anything. It didn’t make a difference. He should have made it.
I’m glad they went for the win. What happened afterwards proves the idea was a good one. His defense is gassed.
Having a TO made a difference lol. That’s not even an opinion.
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Having a TO made a difference lol. That’s not even an opinion.
Nice dodge.
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Nice dodge.
There was a question in your post? Lol.
But sure. A TO available didn’t make a difference. And a 52 yard field goal is a chip shot.
Good stuff.
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Bansultan loves the zone read call for a QB on a sprained knee. lol.
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Bansultan loves the zone read call for a QB on a sprained knee. lol.
Uh. Rodgers made that change.
Wades has no clue. Per usual.
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Uh. Rodgers made that change.
Wades has no clue. Per usual.
Coming from a guy who says having a TO to ice the kicker made no difference, I’ll take that as a compliment.
That’s what a zone read is lol.
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Coming from a guy who says having a TO to ice the kicker made no difference, I’ll take that as a compliment.
That’s what a zone read is lol.
Uh. Nope. Think again.
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Vikings gonna win. Proves I was 100% right. And wades was flat out yet again.
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Uh. Nope. Think again.
Don’t need to.
Mason Crosby makes a 52 yarder to wi...wait, TO.
Mason Crosby misses a 52 yarder to win, OT.
Tie game.
The Vikings having a TO didn’t make a difference.
Per usual. You’re smarter than everyone else sultan. Impeccable stuff.
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giggle
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Vikings gonna win. Proves I was 100% right. And wades was flat out yet again.
Yeah. Because Crosby’s making a FG but the Queens having a TO made no difference. We know.
Lol.
It’s okay to admit you got it wrong sometimes bud. You look really stupid.
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Per usual. You’re smarter than everyone else sultan. Impeccable stuff.
Yep!!!
Maybe should stay away from the football thread in the future. Unless you want me to keep owning you.
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The 10 minute overtime rule is dumb.
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Yeah. Because Crosby’s making a FG but the Queens having a TO made no difference. We know.
Lol.
It’s okay to admit you got it wrong sometimes bud. You look really stupid.
How did you graduate from Marquette with such a lack of understanding in basic logic?
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So what did we learn?
Minnesota + Referee = Green Bay.
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What a horse crap game. Was that a roughing on Matthews? Sure didn’t look like one to me, possibly cause he sorta landed on him?
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Yep!!!
Maybe should stay away from the football thread in the future. Unless you want me to keep owning you.
How did you graduate from Marquette with such a lack of understanding in basic logic?
Well one thing I DIDN’T learn is that when a coach directly takes 3 points off his own score on the last play of the game in a tie game it makes no difference.
Knew I should’ve taken more math classes!
You’re too smart for me! I need to hide!
Lol.
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Well one thing I DIDN’T learn is that when a coach directly takes 3 points off his own score on the last play of the game in a tie game it makes no difference.
Knew I should’ve taken more math classes!
You’re too smart for me! I need to hide!
Lol.
YOU. STILL. DONT. GET. IT???
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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YOU. STILL. DONT. GET. IT???
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Nope. I get it. It directly took a win and made it a tie.
No difference though! In a tie game, 3 points taken off the board on the last play of the game is no difference in the game!
#sultanssmarterthaneveryone #sultandoesmath #toughguy
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The Packers gave it away.
That said, most calls fell the Vikings way. The roughing call was Cr@p.
But the Packers gave it away.
And Wades and Sultan need to go to neutral corners. You don't win on internet boards.
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Chargers are averaging 10 yards per play so far on offense. This Bills team has 0-16 potential.
A couple weeks ago, Bruce Smith was in the foursome behind me. He's a little gray and 40lbs lighter than his playing weight, but he would add value to that defense.
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The Packers gave it away.
That said, most calls fell the Vikings way. The roughing call was Cr@p.
But the Packers gave it away.
And Wades and Sultan need to go to neutral corners. You don't win on internet boards.
So what did we learn?
Minnesota + Referee = Green Bay.
Can either of you even consider that you are a) blaming the refs for a game you should have won and b) completely looking at this through 'home team' glasses? There was the EXACT same roughing the passer call against MN in the first half. The total penalties were 8 for 70yds MN, 7 for 54yds GB. Y'all sound like UW fans after the Duke game.
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Can either of you even consider that you are a) blaming the refs for a game you should have won and b) completely looking at this through 'home team' glasses? There was the EXACT same roughing the passer call against MN in the first half. The total penalties were 8 for 70yds MN, 7 for 54yds GB. Y'all sound like UW fans after the Duke game.
Yes, I am a Packer Fan. I thought the calls leaned against the Packers.
But I'll say it a third time.
The Packers gave it away.
Please let me know what else I need to say to not wear the glasses.
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Vontae Davis retired at halftime of Bills game. Changed clothes and just left stadium.
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Yes, I am a Packer Fan. I thought the calls leaned against the Packers.
But I'll say it a third time.
The Packers gave it away.
Please let me know what else I need to say to not wear the glasses.
The calls had nothing to do with the outcome......AND each team had plenty of opportunity to win this game but didn't.
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The calls had nothing to do with the outcome
I don't disagree. Never said I did. I think the Packers gave it away.
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The calls had nothing to do with the outcome......AND each team had plenty of opportunity to win this game but didn't.
No idea how anyone can say/think that.
Packers intercepted the ball. Game was over at that point, they could have ran out the clock.
A terrible and incorrect roughing the passer call negated that. Gave the ball back to the vikings.
In so doing, they changed the outcome of the game. Now, GB could have bailed the officials out and still won, but the call decided the game would not end there.
Unless that play was obvious and egregious it shouldn't have been called.
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There was the EXACT same roughing the passer call against MN in the first half.
Couldn’t agree more Nagin, but that was a horsesh!t call too. Neither should’ve been called roughing the passser. They were both just tackles.
Unless Sultan says differently that is, then we’d obviously have to go with that....
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Unless Sultan says differently that is, then we’d obviously have to go with that....
Truth.
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Brutal coaching on the part of McCarthy. Brutal calls against Green Bay.
Missed pass interference on Graham long down the sideline.
Turnaround and call an offensive PI against Adams on long completed ball down sideline coming out of his break.
Awful holding penalty called on TD pass to Graham.
Brutal roughing the passer call on Matthews.
Roughing passer call on Vikings was horsecrap too..but that's about the extent of meaningful calls that went against Vikes.
Both teams had opportunities to win. McCarthy, however, is an awful coach that has been the beneficiary of presiding as head coach during the careers of two of the best QB's of all time. Everyone has seen what Green Bay is when Rodgers is out. 6-12..I think.
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No idea how anyone can say/think that.
Packers intercepted the ball. Game was over at that point, they could have ran out the clock.
A terrible and incorrect roughing the passer call negated that. Gave the ball back to the vikings.
Worst officiating I've seen in any sport since the 1971 Ohio State game in the Mideast Regionals when the officiating crew penalized Marquette for "Playing Basketball While Black" and gave the game to Ohio State.
McCarthy really ought to man up, speak out against the officials and take the fine. I know 1 million Packer fans that would contribute to paying it!
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I hate clay matthews more than most, and I hate the Pack, but that was a BS roughing call.
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No idea how anyone can say/think that.
Packers intercepted the ball. Game was over at that point, they could have ran out the clock.
A terrible and incorrect roughing the passer call negated that. Gave the ball back to the vikings.
In so doing, they changed the outcome of the game. Now, GB could have bailed the officials out and still won, but the call decided the game would not end there.
Unless that play was obvious and egregious it shouldn't have been called.
exactly. I know its en vogue to never blame the refs, but that was a game deciding play. It was shameful. In a multi billion dollar sport a call like that should come from a box after watching a replay, or it should overruled by someone with a monitor. If we're going to argue whether or not something is a catch or if someone was out of bounds using replay THEN WHY IN THE HELL ARE WE NOT REVIEWING DOGcrap CALLS THAT RUIN GAMES?
FAIL MARY.
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This NFL season is already one for the books. Let's break it down shall we?
The Browns only taking until week two to completely pull a Browns. Patrick Mahomes. Ryan Fitzpatrick's chest hair. Two ties. Vontae Davis retiring at halftime.
I seriously feel like I'm watching the WWE instead of the NFL.
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ten minute OT is dumb.
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Matthews penalty was called correctly per the new roughing rules. Drove him into the ground with full body weight = roughing now
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Matthews penalty was called correctly per the new roughing rules. Drove him into the ground with full body weight = roughing now
Yep. Another Roger Special that takes a law degree to call correctly.
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Matthews penalty was called correctly per the new roughing rules. Drove him into the ground with full body weight = roughing now
If that’s true, it is nearly impossible not to commit a personal foul in a textbook tackle situation.
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I usually am not one to blame the refs, as teams almost always have a chance to overcome bad calls. And the Packers certainly had chances to overcome that one.
But that was as bad a call as I've seen in quite some time. I watched replays of it probably 10x, and it looks less like roughing the passer every time I see it. The ball was intercepted. The game should have been over. The call "cost the Packers the game" as much as any call can cost any team a game.
Disclosure: I have seen others make reference to a similar call against the Vikings earlier in the game and I admit I didn't see it, as I was busy watching my Panthers piss down their legs.
BTW ... nice job by the Vikings' kicker. Nickname is "Clutch," I'm guessing.
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BTW ... nice job by the Vikings' kicker. Nickname is "Clutch," I'm guessing.
I prefer calling him "Blair"
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Matthews penalty was called correctly per the new roughing rules. Drove him into the ground with full body weight = roughing now
Nonsense.
please explain what super power is needed to NOT land on a QB if you are running straight at him. Maybe Clay should have hovered in the air so he didn’t land on Cousins.
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Matthews penalty was called correctly per the new roughing rules. Drove him into the ground with full body weight = roughing now
From what I saw on Twitter, didn't have to do with the new "weight" emphasis
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From what I saw on Twitter, didn't have to do with the new "weight" emphasis
Correct, official said the call was because Matthew's "lifted" Cousins and drove him into the ground. Unless Matthew's managed to make his body evaporate I'm not sure what else he could have done....he even got his left arm out so he could brace their landing.
Best part is the NFL will review and come back with a "nothing to see here" ruling.
Officiating was horrendous all game, Packers could have won it but officials took at least 4 points and a game winning interception off the board
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The other part is that Matthews didn't lift him. You can see from the reply ESPN keeps playing over and over, Cousins leaves the ground due to his follow through. Matthews basically catches him in the air. Not one part of the ref's post game explanation actually happened. Which makes it 10x worse
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I usually am not one to blame the refs, as teams almost always have a chance to overcome bad calls. And the Packers certainly had chances to overcome that one.
But that was as bad a call as I've seen in quite some time. I watched replays of it probably 10x, and it looks less like roughing the passer every time I see it. The ball was intercepted. The game should have been over. The call "cost the Packers the game" as much as any call can cost any team a game.
Nor do I blame refs most of the time, Brother MU. Rule number one in my book is that, in most cases, you never should have let the other team get that close. I had to go back to the 1970s in my life to see something this bad.
They took the game right out of the Packers hands. Had it not been for a jittery field goal kicker, as Brother MU points out, what the refs did would warrant an investigation. It was bad call and either New York or the Crew leader should have overruled it.
That said, the Vikings are a very good football team. Can't stand 'em but they are good. It's tough enough to beat a good team with an objective officiating crew. It's impossible to win when you have a bad crew.
P.S. -- Glad to see you are posting again. Sounds as if things are at least tolerable there.
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Couldn’t agree more Nagin, but that was a horsesh!t call too. Neither should’ve been called roughing the passser. They were both just tackles.
Unless Sultan says differently that is, then we’d obviously have to go with that....
I didn’t see the one called on the Vikings.
I have no idea what the rule is but it would be impossible not to rough the quarterback on a clean tackle like Matthews’.
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The difference with the Vikings hit is that you can see the defender putting the extra torque into the turf pound. That's what the officials need to look for and call if I understand the emphasis. I'm not saying that should have been a penalty but it was different than Clay's. Seriously, his tackle was literally textbook. My view is that it's crap like this that's hurting the NFL as much as anything. (Catch or no catch, phantom penalties, etc.)
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The difference with the Vikings hit is that you can see the defender putting the extra torque into the turf pound. That's what the officials need to look for and call if I understand the emphasis. I'm not saying that should have been a penalty but it was different than Clay's. Seriously, his tackle was literally textbook. My view is that it's crap like this that's hurting the NFL as much as anything. (Catch or no catch, phantom penalties, etc.)
Agreed.
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Was driving through MN and IA during the game yesterday and only broadcast I could get to pull up was KFAN out of Minneapolis. Without a doubt the most unprofessional, fanboy broadcast of a sporting event I've ever heard.
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Haha my daughter was driving home from Milwaukee yesterday and could only find the Packers' radio broadcast. She said the same thing. I guess where you stand depends on which team you root for.
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My Giants will be lucky to win 1 game this year; but with the pussification of the game, the NFL should just play flag football and be done with it. More than half the game is commercials, standing around in a huddle or watching replays so a questionable call can be adjudicated. The game has become boring IMHO. It is no longer a sport but entertainment.
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Haha my daughter was driving home from Milwaukee yesterday and could only find the Packers' radio broadcast. She said the same thing. I guess where you stand depends on which team you root for.
There's a difference mom. See the Packers are actually God's chosen team so any bias she thought she heard was simply divine intervention. ;)
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Haha my daughter was driving home from Milwaukee yesterday and could only find the Packers' radio broadcast. She said the same thing. I guess where you stand depends on which team you root for.
As a Packer fan, they're just as hard to listen to.
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My Giants will be lucky to win 1 game this year; but with the pussification of the game, the NFL should just play flag football and be done with it. More than half the game is commercials, standing around in a huddle or watching replays so a questionable call can be adjudicated. The game has become boring IMHO. It is no longer a sport but entertainment.
The modern NFL has always been that way...
I think studies show it's only around 13 minutes of actual gameplay during an NFL game.
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As a Packer fan, they're just as hard to listen to.
Seriously? I love Wayne and Larry. Not quite as much as Jim and Max but pretty close.
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Was driving through MN and IA during the game yesterday and only broadcast I could get to pull up was KFAN out of Minneapolis. Without a doubt the most unprofessional, fanboy broadcast of a sporting event I've ever heard.
Haha my daughter was driving home from Milwaukee yesterday and could only find the Packers' radio broadcast. She said the same thing. I guess where you stand depends on which team you root for.
That's how the team specific broadcasts are supposed to sound. There is a reason they're called "homers."
If you listen a national broadcast, it should be more down the middle.
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That's how the team specific broadcasts are supposed to sound. There is a reason they're called "homers."
If you listen a national broadcast, it should be more down the middle.
Speaking of that, I love the way the NCAA has broadcast the Finals with the 3 feeds.
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Big Panthers fan. I can't listen to a Panthers radio broadcast for more than 2 minutes. It's painful.
Oh ... and somehow the Cleveland kicker was even worse than the Minnesota mope. 2 missed PATs and 2 missed FGs. Wow!
Each NFL team needs to find only one of the 32 best kickers in the world. You wouldn't think anybody would end up with a total incompetent!
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The modern NFL has always been that way...
I think studies show it's only around 13 minutes of actual gameplay during an NFL game.
According to a Wall Street Journal study from 2010, it's less than 11 minutes of action:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406
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Yeah but that’s not really the point of the game. It is meant to be short, bursts of action with breaks in between.
I do think the way games have been televised are not really in sync with the modern age. People tolerated commercials. Now they don’t have to.
I thought the game was very entertaining. But I had a rooting interest.
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I watched the Panthers game on Fox Sports Go streaming channel. They had about a half-dozen commercials that ran over and over and over again. There was a Beats commercial featuring Cam Newton that must have run 15 times and a Pizza Hut commercial that probably ran more than that. And then there were all the "in-house" ads for FS1 shows -- so sick of seeing Skip's face.
Was it the same for Packers fans, Vikings fans and others who watched the regular Fox TV feed?
I have been muting commercials for 30 years, and I continue to do so, but it still wasn't really pleasant sitting through them. Of course, I used the commercials to go get more refreshments, take bathroom breaks and play on my iPhone, so they weren't THAT awful.
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I do think the way games have been televised are not really in sync with the modern age.
I feel like this is the case in a lot of areas with the NFL.
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It's still weird to me to hear Wayne doing Packers games, even after all these years. I remember seeing him at Wabounsie Valley basketball games (I'm pretty sure his kids went there) a couple years after he made the move.
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I rarely watch NFL regular season games anymore. If the Packers miss the playoffs, then the regular season is a waste of time. If the Packers make the playoffs, then the regular season was still irrelevant as I'm only concerned about the end game. Maybe a quarter century of Favre and Rodgers has spoiled me.
If I watch, it's either short bursts of 30 min or at a social gathering. But when I get together with friends, we usually play cards for about two hours and watch the game on DVR. We'll catch up to live action sometime in the 4th quarter. If the game is a blowout, we play more cards.
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I watched the Panthers game on Fox Sports Go streaming channel. They had about a half-dozen commercials that ran over and over and over again. There was a Beats commercial featuring Cam Newton that must have run 15 times and a Pizza Hut commercial that probably ran more than that. And then there were all the "in-house" ads for FS1 shows -- so sick of seeing Skip's face.
Was it the same for Packers fans, Vikings fans and others who watched the regular Fox TV feed?
I have been muting commercials for 30 years, and I continue to do so, but it still wasn't really pleasant sitting through them. Of course, I used the commercials to go get more refreshments, take bathroom breaks and play on my iPhone, so they weren't THAT awful.
FSGo is terrible with repeating commercials. It's almost comical. I watch all the Brewers games on FSGo, and if I have to see the same DQ Blizzard commercial again I might go crazy. Last season was even worse, with the same Skip Bayless commercial ("we're brothers! brothers argue!"), Jose Altuve spot ("he's preeetty good"), and Noah's Ark ad ("you'd need a step-ladder to see it all"), over and over and over and over again.
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It's still weird to me to hear Wayne doing Packers games, even after all these years. I remember seeing him at Wabounsie Valley basketball games (I'm pretty sure his kids went there) a couple years after he made the move.
I'm sure his decision didn't sit too well with some Bears fans. But when your lifetime dream job opens....
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Seriously? I love Wayne and Larry. Not quite as much as Jim and Max but pretty close.
Max and Jim were the best. Max had a kind of a laid back, cyncical attitude that was really fun to listen to when the Packers were bad.
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Max and Jim were the best. Max had a kind of a laid back, cyncical attitude that was really fun to listen to when the Packers were bad.
Wasn't Max drunk most of the time?
Growing up listening to Wayne Larraive, that mofo can still get me jacked for a big packers play for a second. Damn him.
Jeff Joniak and Thayer are great radio guys. Ticked that they moved Zach Zaidman to the Cubs broadcast.
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Nonsense.
please explain what super power is needed to NOT land on a QB if you are running straight at him. Maybe Clay should have hovered in the air so he didn’t land on Cousins.
I didn't make or agree with the rule, but that is now the rule.
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Maybe a quarter century of Favre and Rodgers has spoiled me.
If you love Rodgers, can't understand why you would not want to watch one of the best QBs ever ply his trade, but to each his own.
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I’ve been out of the market for a long time but I don’t recall Larivee ever cheering for opponent penalties or clapping when the packers won a coin flip. Also had no idea until I got home how bad the Matthews penalty was. You would’ve thought he murderer Kirk and they were also calling for him to be ejected for arguing. It was pretty bad.
Also, those dudes HATE Treadwell.
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I didn't make or agree with the rule, but that is now the rule.
Can we move on to a different topic? He's already ruled on this.
I didn’t see the one called on the Vikings.
I have no idea what the rule is but it would be impossible not to rough the quarterback on a clean tackle like Matthews’.
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Wasn't Max drunk most of the time?
Growing up listening to Wayne Larraive, that mofo can still get me jacked for a big packers play for a second. Damn him.
Jeff Joniak and Thayer are great radio guys. Ticked that they moved Zach Zaidman to the Cubs broadcast.
Nope, that was Harry Caray. Max used the 'drinking' montra kind of the same way that Dean Martin did. 'Maxi the taxi' cemented his historic legacy with a 7 catch, 2 touchdown game in Super Bowl I when he came off the bench early for an injured Boyd Dowler after a night of carousing in LA playing on essentially no sleep and likely hung over. Reportedly in private life, especially in his later years, he was a real gentleman. A true Packers legend.
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Vikings cut Carlson, sign Bailey.
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Vikings cut Carlson, sign Bailey.
I'm surprised he actually got on the plane back to Minny.
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Vikings cut Carlson, sign Bailey.
Yeah, Vikings definitely improved the team with that signing.
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Vikings cut Carlson, sign Bailey.
They had no other choice but to dump the kid. No-brainer of all no-brainers.
His career might not be over, though. Gano bounced around for a few years before landing in Charlotte, where he's been pretty darn good. That kind of thing has happened to others, too. It's the life of a kicker.
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This announcing crew is... interesting.
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That was a nifty goal-line play
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Bear's War Room 2017...
"Hey Ryan, there are a lot of pretty good QBs projected to be late first rounders this year, should we trade down or wait until a loaded QB class next year. Or at the absolute worst, take Mitch at number 3?"
Ryan Pace: "I can do you one better, let's trade UP for Trubisky."
Look I'm a pretty patient fan when it comes to the Bears, and I really like the Mack trade and the defensive pickups, but Trubisky is effing terrible.
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Bear's War Room 2017...
"Hey Ryan, there are a lot of pretty good QBs projected to be late first rounders this year, should we trade down or wait until a loaded QB class next year. Or at the absolute worst, take Mitch at number 3?"
Ryan Pace: "I can do you one better, let's trade UP for Trubisky."
Look I'm a pretty patient fan when it comes to the Bears, and I really like the Mack trade and the defensive pickups, but Trubisky is effing terrible.
i wonder what their guys didn't like about mahomes and watson? wouldn't have cost them any draft picks. cheezus, trubisky shouldn't have cost them either, but even if trubisky is gone , they coulda had one of the other 2
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That defense is legit though. If Trubisky even plays to Case Keenum levels the Bears are a playoff team.
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I would love to see Mahomes' numbers in the first 2 weeks in Chicago. Or Watson's numbers from last year. (Interesting how Watson hasn't impressed so far this year). Maybe give those guys time to pan out too.
But I'm perfectly happy with Pace being aggressive in building the roster he wants. He's tying his rep/legacy to his picks. Not doing it the safe way. Good for him. If it works, great. If it doesn't, we'll try another rebuild.
I'm also not content to give up on a guy who had 14 college starts and is in his 13th? NFL start. Give him time.
It's funny how many fans I hear wanted Trubisky to start right away last year to get him "experience", but don't want to give him the time now.
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If I’m a Bear fan, I would be perfectly happy from what I’ve seen from Trubisky. He’s got the arm, he generally makes good decisions, but his issue is lack of experience. I think he’ll fix most of those mistakes over time.
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If I’m a Bear fan, I would be perfectly happy from what I’ve seen from Trubisky. He’s got the arm, he generally makes good decisions, but his issue is lack of experience. I think he’ll fix most of those mistakes over time.
He has mechanics problems, namely happy feet, as the announcers discussed numerous times. He is great scripted, but when he gets away from the pre-set play list, he has been poor. He overpowered a number of open looks. Underpowered the ball on his interception deep. And his decision to throw that ball into the end zone on the scramble, thrown across his body to two Seahawks, was terrible. He was extremely lucky that wasn't intercepted.
As his QB rating shows, he has been average. He has a lot of work to do but the potential is there. Cutler also had happy feet and never fixed his mechanics, which is our mental frame.
I thought Nagy's play calling was outstanding, working in the misdirection plays, btw.
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He has mechanics problems, namely happy feet, as the announcers discussed numerous times. He is great scripted, but when he gets away from the pre-set play list, he has been poor. He overpowered a number of open looks. Underpowered the ball on his interception deep. And his decision to throw that ball into the end zone on the scramble, thrown across his body to two Seahawks, was terrible. He was extremely lucky that wasn't intercepted.
As his QB rating shows, he has been average. He has a lot of work to do but the potential is there. Cutler also had happy feet and never fixed his mechanics, which is our mental frame.
I thought Nagy's play calling was outstanding, working in the misdirection plays, btw.
Yeah I think we are on the same page. When the game slows down, his mechanics should get better. (Maybe they don’t though.) And he won’t make that throw.
But this is generally what young QBs look like. When you look at all the other crap guys playing QB, I would be cautiously optimistic.
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So apparently the Matthews hit was against the rules and will actually be used as an example as what not to do.
This is what the NFL wants I guess. Not sure what a defender is supposed to do. Can’t really blame Matthews.
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So apparently the Matthews hit was against the rules and will actually be used as an example as what not to do.
This is what the NFL wants I guess. Not sure what a defender is supposed to do. Can’t really blame Matthews.
He apparently was supposed to place a mint on Cousins' pillow.
Absolutely ridiculous, and asking the refs to make impossible judgment calls that will change the outcomes of games and playoff races.
Long-term, this kind of crap hurts the NFL more than a few guys kneeling during the anthem IMHO.
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He apparently was supposed to place a mint on Cousins' pillow.
Absolutely ridiculous, and asking the refs to make impossible judgment calls that will change the outcomes of games and playoff races.
Long-term, this kind of crap hurts the NFL more than a few guys kneeling during the anthem IMHO.
The college rules regarding all sorts of things are much simpler IMO, and require less judgement calls. The NFL has moved in the opposite direction to its detriment.
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On Trubisky, I didn't think he played well last night. He should have had at least three first half picks, he had overthrows to Howard and Gabriel (both were wide open) and he cut that keeper outside, when he would have picked up the first down just running inside.
For better or worse, he's going to have the weight of a #2 overall pick that was traded up for, tied to his expectations. He's going to have to live with the fact he got picked over Watson and Mahomes, and the three will be judged together.
His read progression needs all kinds of help. That's where his lack of game experience shows up the most. I don't know how they work that through other than reps. Nagy can't use his entire playbook with Trubisky yet, and it shows after they get through the scripted plays.
The other problem he faces is that the Bears window opened up once they traded for Mack. I still don't expect them to be a playoff team this year, but the progression needs to show itself. Next year if they are not contending for the division, then they have to consider options. Their defense is good and young and signed through the next few seasons. They spent money and draft capital on offensive skill players. That window can close fast due to injuries/salary cap, so if they want to be good, he needs to get good by the end of this year.
I'm worried that I don't see "it" with him. Mahomes isn't perfect, I watched that game on Sunday, and he missed some throws, but he carries himself and looks like he has "it". I think if Trubisky can get on a run and get some confidence, we might see it flash, but so far he just looks like a young QB who has potential, trying to figure it out.
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So apparently the Matthews hit was against the rules and will actually be used as an example as what not to do.
This is what the NFL wants I guess. Not sure what a defender is supposed to do. Can’t really blame Matthews.
Hard to believe the NFL doubled down on this...what am I thinking, of course they did.
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Hard to believe the NFL doubled down on this...what am I thinking, of course they did.
This is Roger's NFL. Of course it makes sense.
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He apparently was supposed to place a mint on Cousins' pillow.
Absolutely ridiculous, and asking the refs to make impossible judgment calls that will change the outcomes of games and playoff races.
Long-term, this kind of crap hurts the NFL more than a few guys kneeling during the anthem IMHO.
[/quote
The rule is a poor one but it was called on both teams. Kendricks shoulder was on Rodgers while he still had the ball...should he have pulled up to let him throw?
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018091602/2018/REG2/Vikings@Packers?icampaign=scoreStrip-globalNav-2018091602#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000963824&tab=videos (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018091602/2018/REG2/Vikings@Packers?icampaign=scoreStrip-globalNav-2018091602#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000963824&tab=videos)
Neither hit was a foul last year, the irony is that the rule was put in place because of the hit on Rodgers last year. The timing was worse for the Packers but that doesn't mean it was a bad call - you can't have it both ways.
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He apparently was supposed to place a mint on Cousins' pillow.
Absolutely ridiculous, and asking the refs to make impossible judgment calls that will change the outcomes of games and playoff races.
Long-term, this kind of crap hurts the NFL more than a few guys kneeling during the anthem IMHO.
[/quote
The rule is a poor one but it was called on both teams. Kendricks shoulder was on Rodgers while he still had the ball...should he have pulled up to let him throw?
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018091602/2018/REG2/Vikings@Packers?icampaign=scoreStrip-globalNav-2018091602#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000963824&tab=videos (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018091602/2018/REG2/Vikings@Packers?icampaign=scoreStrip-globalNav-2018091602#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000963824&tab=videos)
Neither hit was a foul last year, the irony is that the rule was put in place because of the hit on Rodgers last year. The timing was worse for the Packers but that doesn't mean it was a bad call - you can't have it both ways.
Yes, that irony has not been lost on me.
As a guy who is neither a Packer backer nor a Viking liker, I still think the call was brutal, though.
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The Bears are .500 for the first time since 2014.
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The Bears are .500 for the first time since 2014.
Psssh.
That's not nearly enough to depress us Bears fans.
If you want to depress us, just show us the list of all-time receiving yardage leaders:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/career-receiving.htm (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/career-receiving.htm)
The Cleveland Browns have 6 guys ahead of our first guy.
The Jacksonville Jaguars, in existence since 1995, mind you, have two.
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This is Roger's NFL. Of course it makes sense.
Roger's called the flag against Minnesota for roughing him ridiculous - said there was nothing wrong with it.
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Roger's called the flag against Minnesota for roughing him ridiculous - said there was nothing wrong with it.
Barfolomew meant Roger Goodell, not Aaron Rodgers.
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Roger's called the flag against Minnesota for roughing him ridiculous - said there was nothing wrong with it.
Barfolomew meant Roger Goodell, not Aaron Rodgers.
Potato:potāto
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That racism thread wasn't even a little political, and it had lots of sports in there. But OK. Guess we can't talk about racial issues.
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That racism thread wasn't even a little political, and it had lots of sports in there. But OK. Guess we can't talk about racial issues.
One has to ask oneself as well, why do the same posters keep getting threads locked?
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One has to ask oneself as well, why do the same posters keep getting threads locked?
Anti-bald bias?
My comments certainly didn't get that thread locked. And I have started many threads that haven't been locked, nor should they have been.
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Anti-bald bias?
My comments certainly didn't get that thread locked. And I have started many threads that haven't been locked, nor should they have been.
Your bald? Ignored.
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Your bald? Ignored.
You’re*
Unless you were referring to something else, ish
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Like monkey, hey?
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WTF dot gif
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Anti-bald bias?
My comments certainly didn't get that thread locked. And I have started many threads that haven't been locked, nor should they have been.
thought you and Heisy were auto-locks if you started threads. Or has that been lifted with the departure of our little buddy?
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Surprisingly good game tonight
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He has mechanics problems, namely happy feet, as the announcers discussed numerous times. He is great scripted, but when he gets away from the pre-set play list, he has been poor. He overpowered a number of open looks. Underpowered the ball on his interception deep. And his decision to throw that ball into the end zone on the scramble, thrown across his body to two Seahawks, was terrible. He was extremely lucky that wasn't intercepted.
As his QB rating shows, he has been average. He has a lot of work to do but the potential is there. Cutler also had happy feet and never fixed his mechanics, which is our mental frame.
I thought Nagy's play calling was outstanding, working in the misdirection plays, btw.
I am so tired of the Chicago media dissing this guy. They're so full of cr*p, you have to duck when they sneeze.
Let's deal with reality. The Bears had a complete offensive change-over. New coach, new offensive coordinator, new wide receivers, etc. It takes time to build confidence and a rapport in people you're just now beginning to play with.
Trubisky is raw, clear and simple. Nobody said a word about what's happened to the Bears in the last year when evaluating Trubisky this week. I thought Ed O'Bradovich on the Hamp and OB show with Koz last Monday night was going to die of an anuryism or something complaining about Trubisky and noting he does not have the stats of Mahommes.
I get that too many Bear fans are afraid this latest quarterback will follow in the hallowed lines of Bobby Douglass, Jack Concannon, Jim Harbaugh, Cordell Stewart, Sexy Rex Grossman, Jay Cutler and last year's really bad mistake. But, guys, give him a year or two before you shoot him. I actually think he's going to be pretty good. Aaron Rodgers was not walking on water yet in his first year as a starter!
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I get that too many Bear fans are afraid this latest quarterback will follow in the hallowed lines of Bobby Douglass, Jack Concannon, Jim Harbaugh, Cordell Stewart, Sexy Rex Grossman, Jay Cutler and last year's really bad mistake. But, guys, give him a year or two before you shoot him. I actually think he's going to be pretty good. Aaron Rodgers was not walking on water yet in his first year as a starter!
I agree, we should give Trubowsky at LEAST as much rope as the Cleveland fans gave Tyrod Taylor last night.
;)
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If I had a dime for every time I heard, "It's not (enter Bears starting quarterback name here)'s fault, have you seen the coaching turnover he's had to go through?!" I'd be a 29 year old retired man right now.
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I get that too many Bear fans are afraid this latest quarterback will follow in the hallowed lines of Bobby Douglass, Jack Concannon, Jim Harbaugh, Cordell Stewart, Sexy Rex Grossman, Jay Cutler and last year's really bad mistake.
I think of him more at the Bob Avellini level.
I jest, I jest. As a Packers fan I hope that is true, but I agree with your assessment. It's way too early. There were a ton of calls to bench Favre at the beginning of his third year as starter.
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I am so tired of the Chicago media dissing this guy. They're so full of cr*p, you have to duck when they sneeze.
Let's deal with reality. The Bears had a complete offensive change-over. New coach, new offensive coordinator, new wide receivers, etc. It takes time to build confidence and a rapport in people you're just now beginning to play with.
Trubisky is raw, clear and simple. Nobody said a word about what's happened to the Bears in the last year when evaluating Trubisky this week. I thought Ed O'Bradovich on the Hamp and OB show with Koz last Monday night was going to die of an anuryism or something complaining about Trubisky and noting he does not have the stats of Mahommes.
I get that too many Bear fans are afraid this latest quarterback will follow in the hallowed lines of Bobby Douglass, Jack Concannon, Jim Harbaugh, Cordell Stewart, Sexy Rex Grossman, Jay Cutler and last year's really bad mistake. But, guys, give him a year or two before you shoot him. I actually think he's going to be pretty good. Aaron Rodgers was not walking on water yet in his first year as a starter!
You may or may not be right, but Baker’s very first pass attempt looked more like that of an NFL QB than Trubisky has shown on any pass attempt so far.
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You may or may not be right, but Baker’s very first pass attempt looked more like that of an NFL QB than Trubisky has shown on any pass attempt so far.
This makes zero sense to me. Whether it's Baker, Mahomes, Watson, Trubisky, Matt Flynn, etc...
Why are people so quick to condemn or crown a player after 1 good or 1 bad game? Why aren't other variables taken into account?
For example, switch Trubisky and Mahomes. One held a clipboard and played on a deep talented roster with a solidified coaching staff and scheme. They other played for the Bears.
Which player has the better numbers now?
Why not just wait for the season(s) to develop and make a statement when there's evidence?
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This makes zero sense to me. Whether it's Baker, Mahomes, Watson, Trubisky, Matt Flynn, etc...
Why are people so quick to condemn or crown a player after 1 good or 1 bad game? Why aren't other variables taken into account?
For example, switch Trubisky and Mahomes. One held a clipboard and played on a deep talented roster with a solidified coaching staff and scheme. They other played for the Bears.
Which player has the better numbers now?
Why not just wait for the season(s) to develop and make a statement when there's evidence?
I understand what you are saying, Jes, but I was just giving the results of a simple eye test. I have seen about half a dozen of Trubisky's games and have yet to see even a single pass as crisp and in rhythm as the 1st pass by Mayfield. Simple as that.
In one game, we have already seen the "wow factor" by Mayfield. We have also seen it with the other young QBs - Wentz, Goff, Watson, Mayfield, and Mahomes.
We have not seen it even once yet from Trubisky.
Will Trubisky rise to the level of these other 5? Who knows? But he hasn't shown it yet. I see Alex Smith as Mitch's ceiling. A viable QB, but not a guy who will ever lead his team to a Super Bowl. It will take a top defense to get there with a QB like Trubisky.
Time will tell if I'm right or just another idiot with an opinion.
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The Bears' QB history comes into play when folks look at Trubisky.
Of course it's not fair. Of course it's silly. But that doesn't matter. It just is.
It's kind of like the Cubbies. No matter how good (or usually bad) they were, they were the Cubs and they were going to lose. Until they won.
The narrative won't change on Trubisky until he changes it. Again, not fair because he's still just a kid, but that's life in the big city.
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I'm not a Bears fan, but I think that for the first time in a long time they are on the right track.
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I'm not a Bears fan, but I think that for the first time in a long time they are on the right track.
Well, we have the Lions covered this year, maybe.
On Mitch, no one is saying he will not be a solid NFL QB eventually. But, Pace sold him in on his efficiency and upside potential. His efficiency has been low-middle so far. And he has had no killer upside games to date (expectations for a young #2 would be to see high side with the down early on).
With Nagy and staff, he has the teachers and scheme. But, in Year 2, I expected to see some sparks. Maybe the Cardinals will cure those ills?
The defense will be dangerous.
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Mitch and the Bears offense has looked good in Nagy's scripted plays. The next evolution for coach and player will be to stack success. It's hard to be an innovative play caller for an entire 60 mins - eventually you have to settle in...
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Patrick. Effing. Mahomes.
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That really sucks for Wilkerson and Brieda.
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Ted and Dom left this defense in shambles.
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Ted and Dom left this defense in shambles.
Nobody looks any good.
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What a stinkfest At MN today.
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Clay Matthews should just retire.
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Clay Matthews should just retire.
Football is an absolute joke. Ray Nitschke is rolling over in his grave.
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Football is an absolute joke. Ray Nitschke is rolling over in his grave.
it really is becoming almost unwatchable, I just don’t enjoy the game much anymore.
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Football is an absolute joke. Ray Nitschke is rolling over in his grave.
Yep. The thing about the calls on Clay last week and this week, on top of the calls being so poor, is that the calls were huge momentum breakers for GB. Can’t underestimate the impact of momentum.....
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Football is an absolute joke. Ray Nitschke is rolling over in his grave.
The worst part is the NFL has already came out and said that the call was correct.
And people wonder why NFL viewership is down.
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The worst part is the NFL has already came out and said that the call was correct.
And people wonder why NFL viewership is down.
Chicos says its because players kneel.
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it really is becoming almost unwatchable, I just don’t enjoy the game much anymore.
If you look back in this thread, I stated before the season that thew new rules would be even worse than the "catch" rule has been the last few years. Pretty clear that things are worse.
The lawyers are making the rules now rather than football people. Goodell got what he wanted.
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Blaine Gabbert 2.0
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Woodant waste a beautiful Fall Sunday watchin' chit like dat, hey?
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Mitch's play recognition, both pre and post snap, leaving a lot to be desired
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I was travelling, so I didn't get to see the game today. But I have two general observations:
1. The NFL is over-legislated.
2. The Packers aren't very good.
Now to erase my DVR...
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Trubisky is so, so bad.
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And yet another simple NFL QB play Trubisky can’t make. “Great play” aka the defender just put his hands up. He’s young, he’s unproven, etc... but outside of good execution in the first 15 plays of the Packer game, I’ve seen nothing from him that excites me as of yet
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If you look back in this thread, I stated before the season that thew new rules would be even worse than the "catch" rule has been the last few years. Pretty clear that things are worse.
The lawyers are making the rules now rather than football people. Goodell got what he wanted.
It’s so over regulated that you can’t even enjoy it, every time a play is made you look for a flag instead of celebrating or for that matter groaning. It really is ridiculous.
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Mrs. 82 and I rather enjoyed going to the Panthers game and watching our ladz play very well against the previously unbeaten Bengals. Our offense moved the ball all day, our patched-up OL did a great job blocking for McCaffrey and Cam, and our defense came through in the second half with a lot of pressure on Dalton.
It also was fun watching the scoreboard and seeing the worst team in football go into Minny and thrash the overrated Queens. Made me laugh out loud every time the Bills added more points. Obviously, I didn't see the game but it must have been something to behold. Skol!
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Bears in 1st Place as they should be. Nuff said!
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Settling for field goals against New England is setting up an eventual collapse. Fun so far, waiting for the comeback.
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The worst part is the NFL has already came out and said that the call was correct.
And people wonder why NFL viewership is down.
anyone see the play where rodgers was sacked? he was not only driven into the ground, but his head got corkscrewed and the defensive player fell on him with full body weight. NO FLAG???
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https://twitter.com/seanmickeyG14/status/1043959950941310976
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NFL ratings have been actually pretty good this year.
https://twitter.com/Ourand_SBJ/status/1044218931161059329
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Last night had the feel of a classic tease game by the Lions. Played far better than expected. Good enough to give a glimmer of hope to the eternally suffering fanbase. Countdown to the inevitable rug pull.
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NFL ratings have been actually pretty good this year.
https://twitter.com/Ourand_SBJ/status/1044218931161059329
Yep.
Also, when talking about NFL ratings, folks just about never mention that just about all network and cable TV ratings are down, and that NFL ratings are down significantly less than TV as a whole.
It's kind of like when people bemoan athletes' low graduation rate at many colleges but neglect to mention that the athletes have a better graduation rate than the overall student body.
Context is important.
Something like 35 of last year's 50 most watched television programs were NFL games.
I mention this stuff and I sound like a cheerleader for the NFL. Fact is, I don't even watch that much NFL. And I obviously realize that the league has some problems -- as do all leagues and all networks overall.
The NFL is the envy of every other sports league and is still an extremely valuable franchise for television overall. There's a reason FOX paid record $$$ for the rights to TNF.
But yeah ... players kneeling is killing the league.
BTW, as I mentioned, I went to the Panthers game. Spent the anthem in the corridor -- along with thousands of my fellow fans. Seems the most patriotic thing of all is to keep selling beer, hot dogs, jerseys and foam No. 1 fingers while a poem written by an avowed racist is being sung.
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NFL ratings have been actually pretty good this year.
https://twitter.com/Ourand_SBJ/status/1044218931161059329
Tangent
Haven't seen the actual national numbers but in NE Florida barely nudged out Tiger late afternoon. Granted only 1 game on local TV, but it's amazing the impact that one man can have. I think the high mark yesterday in Jacksonville was 11.4 for golf. As a comparison, high water mark for the masters final round this year was an 8.3
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Yep.
Also, when talking about NFL ratings, folks just about never mention that just about all network and cable TV ratings are down, and that NFL ratings are down significantly less than TV as a whole.
It's kind of like when people bemoan athletes' low graduation rate at many colleges but neglect to mention that the athletes have a better graduation rate than the overall student body.
Context is important.
Something like 35 of last year's 50 most watched television programs were NFL games.
I mention this stuff and I sound like a cheerleader for the NFL. Fact is, I don't even watch that much NFL. And I obviously realize that the league has some problems -- as do all leagues and all networks overall.
The NFL is the envy of every other sports league and is still an extremely valuable franchise for television overall. There's a reason FOX paid record $$$ for the rights to TNF.
But yeah ... players kneeling is killing the league.
BTW, as I mentioned, I went to the Panthers game. Spent the anthem in the corridor -- along with thousands of my fellow fans. Seems the most patriotic thing of all is to keep selling beer, hot dogs, jerseys and foam No. 1 fingers while a poem written by an avowed racist is being sung.
Why don't ya just fookin' move ta Canada, hey?
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Yep.
Also, when talking about NFL ratings, folks just about never mention that just about all network and cable TV ratings are down, and that NFL ratings are down significantly less than TV as a whole.
It's kind of like when people bemoan athletes' low graduation rate at many colleges but neglect to mention that the athletes have a better graduation rate than the overall student body.
Context is important.
Something like 35 of last year's 50 most watched television programs were NFL games.
I mention this stuff and I sound like a cheerleader for the NFL. Fact is, I don't even watch that much NFL. And I obviously realize that the league has some problems -- as do all leagues and all networks overall.
The NFL is the envy of every other sports league and is still an extremely valuable franchise for television overall. There's a reason FOX paid record $$$ for the rights to TNF.
But yeah ... players kneeling is killing the league.
BTW, as I mentioned, I went to the Panthers game. Spent the anthem in the corridor -- along with thousands of my fellow fans. Seems the most patriotic thing of all is to keep selling beer, hot dogs, jerseys and foam No. 1 fingers while a poem written by an avowed racist is being sung.
Was at Miller Park last week. They actually dimmed the lights in the concession stands and stopped selling during the anthem. Most everyone in the concourse at least stopped walking and turned to the field. Of course, that was 15 minutes prior to first pitch, and not part of the kickoff routine that the NFL has made it.
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Was at Miller Park last week. They actually dimmed the lights in the concession stands and stopped selling during the anthem. Most everyone in the concourse at least stopped walking and turned to the field. Of course, that was 15 minutes prior to first pitch, and not part of the kickoff routine that the NFL has made it.
This has been the policy for quite some time at MP.
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Why don't ya just fookin' move ta Canada, hey?
Because I'm a patriotic American who loves our country and wants to see us prosper. How 'bout you?
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Kinda looks like we're gettin' der, aina?
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Kinda looks like we're gettin' der, aina?
We've been there for awhile. You just weren't paying attention.
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Take all of your crap to another thread. Don't want to read about any of it.
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I am a Bears fan (disclosure purposes only).
I though all three roughing flags on Clay Matthews were absolutely terrible calls, but if I'm a referee, that's what they told me is illegal, so I've got to call it.
Best solution to this bad scenario that I can think of is this:
Since the "full bodyweight" restriction is complete bulls!t and in most case against the laws of the physical universe, you've got to institute a method of "tackling" that removes bodyweight from the equation.
So, similar to a QB who slides to give himself up on the play, there should be an indicator for a defensive player who had reached the quarterback and is in full position to disrupt the play, to stop said play without applying full bodyweight on the quarterback.
There should be some sort of small cloth indicator worn by the quarterback that, when removed by a defensive player, indicates the stoppage of that play. Have the quarterback wear a belt with cloth indicators on both sides to be fair to all defenders.
I'm just spitballing here.
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I am a Bears fan (disclosure purposes only).
I though all three roughing flags on Clay Matthews were absolutely terrible calls, but if I'm a referee, that's what they told me is illegal, so I've got to call it.
Best solution to this bad scenario that I can think of is this:
Since the "full bodyweight" restriction is complete bulls!t and in most case against the laws of the physical universe, you've got to institute a method of "tackling" that removes bodyweight from the equation.
So, similar to a QB who slides to give himself up on the play, there should be an indicator for a defensive player who had reached the quarterback and is in full position to disrupt the play, to stop said play without applying full bodyweight on the quarterback.
There should be some sort of small cloth indicator worn by the quarterback that, when removed by a defensive player, indicates the stoppage of that play. Have the quarterback wear a belt with cloth indicators on both sides to be fair to all defenders.
I'm just spitballing here.
Come on, this is the 21st century. We can at least use some type of hologram projection, lasers or something of that sort.
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I am a Bears fan (disclosure purposes only).
I though all three roughing flags on Clay Matthews were absolutely terrible calls, but if I'm a referee, that's what they told me is illegal, so I've got to call it.
Best solution to this bad scenario that I can think of is this:
Since the "full bodyweight" restriction is complete bulls!t and in most case against the laws of the physical universe, you've got to institute a method of "tackling" that removes bodyweight from the equation.
So, similar to a QB who slides to give himself up on the play, there should be an indicator for a defensive player who had reached the quarterback and is in full position to disrupt the play, to stop said play without applying full bodyweight on the quarterback.
There should be some sort of small cloth indicator worn by the quarterback that, when removed by a defensive player, indicates the stoppage of that play. Have the quarterback wear a belt with cloth indicators on both sides to be fair to all defenders.
I'm just spitballing here.
I like the path you are on. Some other ideas would be to 1) use tape to keep the belt from falling around the quarterback's legs. 2) Use a sharpie to write the quarterback's name on the belt with cloth indicators, that way they don't mix them up with the other quarterbacks. Would be best to have the coaches keep the belts in a bag to only be used in practice and games.
Both would help eliminate delays in playing the game.
What are your thoughts on post-game snacks?
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What are your thoughts on post-game snacks?
I'm not sure... which one of you has the approved peanut-free list?
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I am a Bears fan (disclosure purposes only).
I though all three roughing flags on Clay Matthews were absolutely terrible calls, but if I'm a referee, that's what they told me is illegal, so I've got to call it.
Could be worse, Dolphins lost arguably their best lineman, William Hayes, for the year cause he rolled/maneuvered funny trying to avoid the bodyweight penalty.
I sympathize with Packer fans (as hard as it is to say that). The calls are correct by the letter of the law, but that rule is just atrocious. The irony though is they are being "punished" by a role created cause of Rodgers' injury.
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Could be worse, Dolphins lost arguably their best lineman, William Hayes, for the year cause he rolled/maneuvered funny trying to avoid the bodyweight penalty.
I sympathize with Packer fans (as hard as it is to say that). The calls are correct by the letter of the law, but that rule is just atrocious. The irony though is they are being "punished" by a role created cause of Rodgers' injury.
Yea, that was no worse than when Hicks absolutely leveled Bradford.
Heard an interesting take though, the reason why guys like Von Miller and Mack don't often get called for that, is because they try go for the ball instead of trying to kill the QB.
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A Panthers D-lineman had a big sack yesterday and the moment it happened I thought he might get flagged even though I didn't think he deserved to get flagged. Thankfully he didn't because it was a huge play.
But honestly, it was not one iota better or worse than what Matthews did either of the last 2 weeks.
And therein is part of the problem. The rule sucks ... and the refs will adjudicate it differently because, as the NFL acknowledges, it's a judgment call.
It's just a bad scene.
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The plus side for the NFL is that no one is talking about Catch rules.
In the mind of the NFL, that's a win.
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The plus side for the NFL is that no one is talking about Catch rules.
In the mind of the NFL, that's a win.
So true.
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Not a big fan of the MNF analysts.
Both were far better players than analysts ... and Gruden was a better analyst than he is a coach!
In fairness, maybe they'll grow into it. We'll see.
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Not a big fan of the MNF analysts.
Both were far better players than analysts ... and Gruden was a better analyst than he is a coach!
In fairness, maybe they'll grow into it. We'll see.
Agreed. I didn't love Gruden but I really liked McDonough. Surprised he was removed after two years.
EDIT: Just read an SI article that said he wasn't happy doing it. Hope the new guys improve.
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Agreed. I didn't love Gruden but I really liked McDonough. Surprised he was removed after two years.
EDIT: Just read an SI article that said he wasn't happy doing it. Hope the new guys improve.
Yeah he pretty much said that he liked college football more. My guess is that he couldn’t get along with Gruden too.
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I hate to give this gasbag any airtime, but Jerry Jones said the new emphasis on roughing the passer that bars a defender from landing with his full body weight on the quarterback has altered the game "as much as any one [rule] I have seen make a change from our past."
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To confuse things just a bit more - NFL Network's Judy Battista reports several members of the Competition Committee are "uncomfortable with the roughing the passer calls" early in the season.
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The plus side for the NFL is that no one is talking about Catch rules.
In the mind of the NFL, that's a win.
Reminds me of the Gilbert Gottfried video of no one talking about concussions because of kneeling. Win- win, hey?
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Gruden was the worst.
I dig Booger's set-up but yeah that team is just not very good yet from what I've seen....but I'm also generally not watching nearly as much MNF as I use to so small sample size.
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The Minnesota Vikings informed Everson Griffen and his agent last week that the star defensive end would not be allowed back with the team until he underwent a mental health evaluation, according to a police incident report obtained by ESPN's Courtney Cronin.
I would make a joke about what being a ViQueen does to your psyche, but we have too many tender souls here who would think I was making a serious social commentary about mental illness in general.
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Probably should drop the “ViQueen” reference while you are at it.
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Obviously a lot of season left by hasn't been a great start for the Vikings.
Don't know a whole lot about the Vikings team makeup so I'm just kinda spitballing, but could the loss of someone like Brian Robison throw the locker room off that much? Remember seeing that him and Griffen.
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Obviously a lot of season left by hasn't been a great start for the Vikings.
Don't know a whole lot about the Vikings team makeup so I'm just kinda spitballing, but could the loss of someone like Brian Robison throw the locker room off that much? Remember seeing that him and Griffen.
Well, losing by 21 at home to the worst team in the NFL will drive some crazy!
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Obviously a lot of season left by hasn't been a great start for the Vikings.
Don't know a whole lot about the Vikings team makeup so I'm just kinda spitballing, but could the loss of someone like Brian Robison throw the locker room off that much? Remember seeing that him and Griffen.
Yeah it looks a little more serious than that. And frankly it makes me wonder how much the team, and especially the defense was distracted last week.
https://deadspin.com/police-report-vikings-everson-griffen-jumped-out-of-an-1829304717
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I would make a joke about what being a ViQueen does to your psyche
Careful, the mods might get bombarded with tears and crying over this type of evil hate speech, brandi.
#TheRighteousHypocrites
I kinda doubt Everson will be back this year. Very unfortunate - hope he can get things right mentally. Seemingly a great, but yikes. The Hotel where he went off is across the street from my place - super nice; can't imagine that playing out there.
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The Minnesota Vikings informed Everson Griffen and his agent last week that the star defensive end would not be allowed back with the team until he underwent a mental health evaluation, according to a police incident report obtained by ESPN's Courtney Cronin.
I would make a joke about what being a ViQueen does to your psyche, but we have too many tender souls here who would think I was making a serious social commentary about mental illness in general.
“Tender souls”?? ‘Nuff said ::)
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QBs might actually save the NFL from itself because more and more of them are saying that the ridiculous roughing-the-passer rules are hurting football.
The latest is Derek Carr:
"I wish the guy would have just landed on me instead of tearing his ACL," Carr said Wednesday, via Michael Gelhken of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. "For him to tear his ACL, nobody wants that. I don't want that."
He was talking about Dolphins DE Williams Hayes, who was fully aware of the league's emphasis on the rule when he sacked Carr in the second quarter. Hayes appeared to kick out his right leg to prevent landing on Carr, but the motion resulted in Hayes tearing an ACL.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000966859/article/carr-wishes-hayes-landed-on-him-instead-of-tearing-acl
Several connected NFL reporters say league honchos are listening and a change in the way the rule is enforced could come soon.
Not soon enough for Clay Matthews and the Packers, but here's hoping.
I know I could be swayed by "recency bias," but this seems like one of the biggest rules-related travesties in league history. Worse than the catch/no-catch deal, IMHO, because this goes to the very essence of football: See football, tackle guy with football.
It's not supposed to be: See football, make perfect fundamental tackle on guy with football, get penalized 15 yards.
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Very very proud of my Panthers today for signing Eric Reid, an All-Pro safety and patriotic American who had been blackballed by the NFL for having been an anthem-kneeler.
Our new owner, David Tepper, had said that he encouraged his players to be active in the community and to speak out against injustice, and he backed it up today.
The Panthers have injury problems in their defensive backfield, particularly at safety, and Reid was by far the best player available. They didn't let silliness and ignorance prevent them from improving their chances to make the playoffs and, ultimately, win the Super Bowl.
“Eric has been a starting safety in the NFL and has played at a high level throughout his career,” general manager Marty Hurney said. “After we put (safety) Da’Norris Searcy on injured reserve, Ron (Rivera) and I discussed our options, and Eric was at the top of our list. He is a physical safety with good ball skills and play-making ability.”
Bravo!
Putting a little bit of my money where my mouth is, I have bought tickets for my wife and I to attend another game this season.
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The Rams are fun.
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Skol !
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Impressed with the Queens 'D'
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Impressed with the Queens 'D'
Well, at least the Rams are good.
Compared to losing at home by 8,000 points to the worst team in the NFL, losing at the Rams by a TD is practically a win.
Skol!
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Skol !
Just a pinch between your cheek and gums.
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Very very proud of my Panthers today for signing Eric Reid, an All-Pro safety and patriotic American who had been blackballed by the NFL for having been an anthem-kneeler.
Our new owner, David Tepper, had said that he encouraged his players to be active in the community and to speak out against injustice, and he backed it up today.
The Panthers have injury problems in their defensive backfield, particularly at safety, and Reid was by far the best player available. They didn't let silliness and ignorance prevent them from improving their chances to make the playoffs and, ultimately, win the Super Bowl.
“Eric has been a starting safety in the NFL and has played at a high level throughout his career,” general manager Marty Hurney said. “After we put (safety) Da’Norris Searcy on injured reserve, Ron (Rivera) and I discussed our options, and Eric was at the top of our list. He is a physical safety with good ball skills and play-making ability.”
Bravo!
Putting a little bit of my money where my mouth is, I have bought tickets for my wife and I to attend another game this season.
I think the whole anthem protest thing has pretty much blown over. The amount of outrage over Kaep and Nike was pretty brief and pretty tame.
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Very very proud of my Panthers today for signing Eric Reid, an All-Pro safety and patriotic American who had been blackballed by the NFL for having been an anthem-kneeler.
Our new owner, David Tepper, had said that he encouraged his players to be active in the community and to speak out against injustice, and he backed it up today.
The Panthers have injury problems in their defensive backfield, particularly at safety, and Reid was by far the best player available. They didn't let silliness and ignorance prevent them from improving their chances to make the playoffs and, ultimately, win the Super Bowl.
“Eric has been a starting safety in the NFL and has played at a high level throughout his career,” general manager Marty Hurney said. “After we put (safety) Da’Norris Searcy on injured reserve, Ron (Rivera) and I discussed our options, and Eric was at the top of our list. He is a physical safety with good ball skills and play-making ability.”
Bravo!
Putting a little bit of my money where my mouth is, I have bought tickets for my wife and I to attend another game this season.
Curious to see where this puts the collusion lawsuit that Reid is part of. Don't think the NFL can point at him finally getting a contract as proof there wasn't collusion prior but what do I know, I don't even stay at Holiday Inn Expresses enough to even pretend to be a legal scholar let alone be one.
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Curious to see where this puts the collusion lawsuit that Reid is part of. Don't think the NFL can point at him finally getting a contract as proof there wasn't collusion prior but what do I know, I don't even stay at Holiday Inn Expresses enough to even pretend to be a legal scholar let alone be one.
Was mostly glossed over in the couple articles I read. They said the collusion case was ongoing but didn't know how this would impact it.
I think the whole anthem protest thing has pretty much blown over. The amount of outrage over Kaep and Nike was pretty brief and pretty tame.
Agreed. Nike actually has increased sales and its stock price hit an all-time high.
We'll see if the world's most famous rejected NFL owner will be able to resist taking a shot at some athletes whose color he doesn't like at some point this season. He's a little busy these days.
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Was mostly glossed over in the couple articles I read. They said the collusion case was ongoing but didn't know how this would impact it.
We'll see if the world's most famous rejected NFL owner will be able to resist taking a shot at some athletes whose color he doesn't like at some point this season. He's a little busy these days.
-redacted.
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Same ol' board, aina?
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We'll see if the world's most famous rejected NFL owner will be able to resist taking a shot at some athletes whose color he doesn't like at some point this season. He's a little busy these days.
Another relapse, eh Mike? Addiction's no joke - take comfort that you're in our thoughts and prayers!
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Another relapse, eh Mike? Addiction's no joke - take comfort that your in our thoughts and prayers!
No habla prayers. Thanks for the thoughts, though ... can always use some of those.
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No habla prayers. Thanks for the thoughts, though ... can always use some of those.
Not a big deal, bruh. Your character or lack thereof was revealed many moons ago.
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Not a big deal, bruh. Your character or lack thereof was revealed many moons ago.
Irony. Sweet, delicious irony. You never disappoint.
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Not a big deal, bruh. Your character or lack thereof was revealed many moons ago.
Hypocrite.
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What alternate dimension did I fall into this morning?
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I see they changed the sack rule this week.
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Josh Allen has a LOOONNNGGG way to go.
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Josh Allen has a LOOONNNGGG way to go.
Him and Darnold have been typical rookie QBs - awful.
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Bears were fun today.
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Same old Lions.
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Josh Allen has a LOOONNNGGG way to go.
Well, you have to give him a break. This week, he wasn't playing at Minnesota, where he led the worst team in football to a 10,000 point victory over the most overrated team in the NFL.
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Bears were fun today.
This may have been a statement game for the Bears. The Chicago media has been all over Trubisky. If they can sustain this, they'll be pretty good.
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This may have been a statement game for the Bears. The Chicago media has been all over Trubisky. If they can sustain this, they'll be pretty good.
::) It was Tampa Bay. They aren't gonna sustain anything unless they can play Arizona and TB every other week for the rest of the year.
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::) It was Tampa Bay. They aren't gonna sustain anything unless they can play Arizona and TB every other week for the rest of the year.
Elite defense and special teams, offense should be able to do just enough with Howard, Cohen, Burton and Robinson. Honestly can't believe I'm saying this, but that looks like a playoff team especially when you look at the schedule.
I forgot how much more fun fall is when the Bears are good.
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::) It was Tampa Bay. They aren't gonna sustain anything unless they can play Arizona and TB every other week for the rest of the year.
Trubisky and bears offense still had a heck of a day, regardless of opponent. It's the first (and it very may well be the only - though I doubt it) sign of what this offense could be.
TB is bad. But 3 super bowl winning QBs played against TB before the Bears and only 1 came away with a win. And none of those put up the numbers that Chicago did.
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Trubisky and bears offense still had a heck of a day, regardless of opponent. It's the first (and it very may well be the only - though I doubt it) sign of what this offense could be.
TB is bad. But 3 super bowl winning QBs played against TB before the Bears and only 1 came away with a win. And none of those put up the numbers that Chicago did.
Well, Brees put up 40 points. Let's not pretend the Bucs defense shut him down. And Foles is the #2 QB on the Eagles for a reason.
Not taking anything away from Trubisky. Just pointing out that you are citing a fluky statistical coincidence. While technically true, it is misleading to use in regards to the quality of Tampa's defense.
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::) It was Tampa Bay. They aren't gonna sustain anything unless they can play Arizona and TB every other week for the rest of the year.
Tampa beat 2 playoff teams and took the Steelers to the wire. No the Bears didn't stomp the Patriots, but TB was one of the hotter teams to start the season, especially offensively. They averaged 34 a game and Fitzpatrick set records. That offense was hot garbage yesterday and Fitzpatrick played mediocre enough to get yanked.
No this doesn't mean the Bears are contenders, but to side eye on the most impressive performance of the day yesterday is petty and misguided. Bears were't even favored on a neutral field.
Trubisky more than anything looked comfortable and wasn't a mental mess like we saw even against Arizona. That was the most encouraging for me.
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Trubisky more than anything looked comfortable and wasn't a mental mess like we saw even against Arizona. That was the most encouraging for me.
I'm not a Trubisky hater by any means, but I also won't get too high about this one performance.
I agree that there were some big positives to his game yesterday, aside from the great throws; the audible on the first play of the day was the correct read, he drew three encroachment/NZE penalties with his cadence, etc.
But let's face it.
The Bucs blew so many coverages that they could have been arrested for prostitution.
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I'm not a Trubisky hater by any means, but I also won't get too high about this one performance.
I agree that there were some big positives to his game yesterday, aside from the great throws; the audible on the first play of the day was the correct read, he drew three encroachment/NZE penalties with his cadence, etc.
But let's face it.
The Bucs blew so many coverages that they could have been arrested for prostitution.
Where did I say he was anything other than what he was? Where did I get too high in the quoted portion? He was comfortable and efficient, unlike the jumbled mess he was most of the Zona game.
While its easy to make fun of Chicago media/fan chuckleheads who get overexcited about a lot of things, its worth also noting all the "CANT READ TOO MUCH INTO ONE GAME" reverse sentiment. The offense looked great, Cohen was a monster, Trubisky played his role well, and there was potential shown all around.
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Where did I say he was anything other than what he was? Where did I get too high in the quoted portion? He was comfortable and efficient, unlike the jumbled mess he was most of the Zona game.
While its easy to make fun of Chicago media/fan chuckleheads who get overexcited about a lot of things, its worth also noting all the "CANT READ TOO MUCH INTO ONE GAME" reverse sentiment. The offense looked great, Cohen was a monster, Trubisky played his role well, and there was potential shown all around.
That's what I don't understand. When the offense/Trubisky plays poorly, it demonstrates that he's a bust or Nagy is in over his head.
When the offense/Trubisky plays well, it doesn't mean anything.
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What happened to Earl Thomas yesterday is a good reminder of why fans should never complain when a player holds out for a long-term/large guarantee deal.
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What happened to Earl Thomas yesterday is a good reminder of why fans should never complain when a player holds out for a long-term/large guarantee deal.
I imagine this will push Bell further into his corner. Doubt we see him this season.
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I imagine this will push Bell further into his corner. Doubt we see him this season.
I think he'll show up after week 10. If he doesn't, 2018 won't count as a year of service time and then he won't be an UFA at the end of the year.
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Where did I say he was anything other than what he was? Where did I get too high in the quoted portion? He was comfortable and efficient, unlike the jumbled mess he was most of the Zona game.
While its easy to make fun of Chicago media/fan chuckleheads who get overexcited about a lot of things, its worth also noting all the "CANT READ TOO MUCH INTO ONE GAME" reverse sentiment. The offense looked great, Cohen was a monster, Trubisky played his role well, and there was potential shown all around.
I must have been unclear; I completely agree with the portion of your post that I quoted.
Namely, that Trubisky (and Nagy and the rest of the offense, for that matter) showed good improvement.
I was not "on him" when he looked shaky the previous couple of games, and likewise I will not "crown him" for looking good yesterday. But he did look very, very good.
I will, in short, respect the process. #nohashtags
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I imagine this will push Bell further into his corner. Doubt we see him this season.
Just saw he will report week 7.
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Wow, Mahomes sure is fun to watch. Damn good, too.
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Wow, Mahomes sure is fun to watch. Damn good, too.
Yeah...even as a Broncos fan, I have to agree. He’s really good.
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Silly "quarter of the season" awards article: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000969104/article/debrief-week-4-handing-out-2018-nfl-firstquarter-awards
But it does have some stuff that might be of interest to NFC North fans, namely Mack being the "best last-minute addition" and those Viking-slaying monsters of Buffalo being the NFL's "least watchable team."
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3 huge mistakes in less than 5 minutes.
And, above all, make sure your best RB is on the bench.
Wades may be right.
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Having to start two rookie WRs and two rookie CBs is a true testament to what Ted Thompson did to this team.
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Having to start two rookie WRs and two rookie CBs is a recipe for success!
Refusing to spend money in free agency is.
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Pack coming out ready to play once again. That’s on a coach.
You have play designs where 2 tight ends are running identical routes at identical times about 3 feet apart so Graham tries making a reaching play on a ball intended for Kendricks. Then you have Davante crossing right into Montgomery, taking them both to the ground on the Rodgers fumble play. TB12 is right, Rodgers could throw for 7K yards/year if he had Bellichick coaching him. The talent on the Patriots is rarely significantly better than that of the Packers. Yet...
Also, knowing you’re down 2 WRs including your slot guy, how is Montgomery not getting snaps in the slot?
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Wow. Terrible performance so far. Need to keep it at 17 before half.
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Never fails. 3rd and very manageable and there goes Mac giving the opponent a free time out. Classic.
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Good effort Pack!
Go Crew.
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So about this idea of “simplifying the offense.” That’s been a disaster.
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Using 30+ seconds between every play down by 3 scores.
And again ball snapped with 2 seconds on clock.
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Always tough kicking in a dome.
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Norwood misses again :-\
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Goin’ with the hot foot
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Josh Rosen is going to be great. Cardinals in the future!!! Two years away from being a force.
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I feel sorry for all y'all with crapty kickers.
My boyz tried real hard to blow the game, but Graham Gano made 4 FGs, including the winner from 63 yards with 1 second left, the longest winning kick ever.
Gano's kick would have been good from 70. Amazing leg. Two of his other makes were from "only" 49 yards - in other words, chip shots.
He's not just the strongest leg in the league, either. He has missed only one FG since the beginning of last season, and hasn't missed at home since 2016.
It's nice to know that on a day like Sunday - when my Panthers tried very hard to mess up royally against an inferior Giants team - we have a kicker who can save the day.
I know he'll eventually miss one, maybe even a really important one. MJ missed lots of potential game-winning jumpers, too. But I'll take Gano over anybody; he has earned every dollar he gets.
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Josh Rosen is going to be great. Cardinals in the future!!! Two years away from being a force.
It will be so cool to be able to tell everyone you saw him develop at UCLA from the perch of Michael Dukakis' nephew's box seats!
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I feel sorry for all y'all with crapty kickers.
My boyz tried real hard to blow the game, but Graham Gano made 4 FGs, including the winner from 63 yards with 1 second left, the longest winning kick ever.
Gano's kick would have been good from 70. Amazing leg. Two of his other makes were from "only" 49 yards - in other words, chip shots.
He's not just the strongest leg in the league, either. He has missed only one FG since the beginning of last season, and hasn't missed at home since 2016.
Da football wuz juiced, hey?
It's nice to know that on a day like Sunday - when my Panthers tried very hard to mess up royally against an inferior Giants team - we have a kicker who can save the day.
I know he'll eventually miss one, maybe even a really important one. MJ missed lots of potential game-winning jumpers, too. But I'll take Gano over anybody; he has earned every dollar he gets.
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Never thought it possible. But at least according to QB Rtg, and interception rate, Trubiskey is out performing Brady at the moment.
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Had to vent here.
Monday Night Football announcers are just awful, after 5 weeks, just turned off sound. I thought Witten was the analyst, but Booger McFarland is a non stop voice machine. It's like he and Witten are in a contest as to who can speak more and say the same thing over and over. There is not a second of silence, just non stop talk.
Is it just me or anyone else feel same?
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I can take anything seriously that comes from someone who willingly calls himself Booger.
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Joe Tessitore is annoying. I miss Sean McDonough.
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Havin' just turned on MNF, U'd have taught Brees just found da cure four crotch rot. Watt udder nunsense, aina?
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Havin' just turned on MNF, U'd have taught Brees just found da cure four crotch rot. Watt udder nunsense, aina?
Some people just aren't as in need of this cure as you seem to be I guess.
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So the refs flagged the Saints for excessive celebration on the TD pass where Breese set the yardage record?
Nothing is more representative of the league’s tone-deafness than that.
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Wades said don't do that...so deleted.
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Where does Brees rank in the GOAT list?
I could see him legitimately listed as #1. I have him above Brady and Rodgers.
Don’t do that.
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Don’t do that.
My apologies.
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Tessitore was/is fantastic for college football. The Tess effect was real where unpredictable or wild finishes appeared in games he was calling, and he handled it splendidly. But something is just off with him on MNF, not sure.
Remember when Josh Norman was one of the best CBs in the league? Between him and Richard Sherman, shows how quick the window closes on elite physical CBs
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Tessitore was/is fantastic for college football. The Tess effect was real where unpredictable or wild finishes appeared in games he was calling, and he handled it splendidly. But something is just off with him on MNF, not sure.
I agree and am inclined to think it highlights a problem with the NFL product, not Tessitore.
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My apologies.
Haha I'm with Wades. The all time yards list is more of a trivia game than a meaningful metric to compare QBs across eras. 5 of the top 8 are still active, and the top 25 includes esteemed names like Matt Hasselbeck, Kerry Collins and Drew Bledsoe. Matt Stafford through his first 9 years is only 300 yards off Brees's pace. If Dan Marino's career had begun in the early aughts, he might have thrown for 100,000 yds.
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Brees is a Hall of Famer, but he's not in the conversation with Brady, Rodgers, Marino, Elway and a few others IMHO.
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I can take anything seriously that comes from someone who willingly calls himself Booger.
You should rethink that position. Booger from Revenge of the Nerds was pretty wise.
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Bears vs Brock. Nice.
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Bears defense leaving a lot to be desired today.
At least the offense showed up in the 2nd half.
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This is the wildest game I’ve seen in a long time.
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Brilliant play calling by the Bears down the stretch.
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Bears absolutely deserved to lose that game. Matt Nagy’s decision making this year has left a ton to be desired.
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Bears absolutely deserved to lose that game. Matt Nagy’s decision making this year has left a ton to be desired.
I get that he’s a rookie HC, but I’ve never seen such a fearful playcaller/coach. The 3 plays that lead to the missed FG in OT were pathetic. Playing for 50 yard FGs when you don’t have Justin Tucker is chickens***. Defense was bad, game management may have been worse
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I get that he’s a rookie HC, but I’ve never seen such a fearful playcaller/coach. The 3 plays that lead to the missed FG in OT were pathetic. Playing for 50 yard FGs when you don’t have Justin Tucker is chickens***. Defense was bad, game management may have been worse
What he did in the Packers game showed me he isn't ready. Malpractice as a coach.
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550 yards to Brock Osweiler.
Color me impressed
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Bears absolutely deserved to lose that game. Matt Nagy’s decision making this year has left a ton to be desired.
Fangio may be the bigger problem
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Fangio may be the bigger problem
Fangio is the last person I'm worried about. Oh well, fun season while it lasted, here comes the three game slide.
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Skol!!! Easy stroll to #AnothaOne
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Fangio is the last person I'm worried about. Oh well, fun season while it lasted, here comes the three game slide.
When Rodgers torched the defense, you could say “yeah, but it was Rodgers”.
What can you say after today? “Yeah, but Osweiler destroys any defense”?
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When Rodgers tour he’d the defense, you could say “yeah, but it was Rodgers”.
What can you say after today? “Yeah, but Osweiler destroys any defense”?
550 yards to Brock Osweiler.
Color me impressed
Where do you see Brock threw for 550?
Dolphins offensive success was less about the QB and more about zero pass rush and horrible tackling all day long.
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Where do you see Brock threw for 550
To a Brock Osweiler led team.
I realized Brock “only” threw for 380 + 3 TDs
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So much for the bye week. Nagy is a great Offensive Coordinator. Needs to learn on the job like Wojo has had to.
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Osweiler's stats are inflated thanks to the 100 YAC that Wilson had. Which leads to the atrocious tackling effort today. The 5.2 rush per attempt by the Fins...just shoved it down the throat of the Bears. Perhaps the bye week plan of giving guys way too much time off was a mistake. Beating up a mediocre Bucs team at home shouldn't have led to them reading their press clippings. The hard truth is their wins are over a bad Cardinals team, a meh Seahawks squad, and a mediocre Bucs team...hardly a murderer's row of opponents.
The turnovers were killers, especially the Trubisky red zone pick, as the previous play was a Cohen TD called back on a (questionable) penalty on Burton. Regardless, Trubisky's pick and the two RB fumbles were daggers.
Nagy gets way too cute sometimes. The Bears have to be close to the top of the league in formation penalties this season. His clock management, especially at the end of regulation was terribly poor. Yes, the players have to execute, but he also needs to put guys in a position to win. That second down and third down calls on the last possession of OT for the offense made no sense. Parkey does not have a big leg, Nagy has to realize down/distance/situation there, no excuse there for allowing his team to settle for that 53 yard kick.
The Bears are a year away. Maybe they sneak in as a wild card this year, but that's not a team playing deep in January this year. I can see them surprising either the Rams or Pats at home, and everyone drinking the kool aid, but this team still has a long way to go in my opinion.
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That second down and third down calls on the last possession of OT for the offense made no sense. Parkey does not have a big leg, Nagy has to realize down/distance/situation there, no excuse there for allowing his team to settle for that 53 yard kick.
Look, we can forgive the interception. We can forgive even the fumble on the 0.00001 inch line. But when the team had a chance in OT to win and Nagy set the guy up for failure, well, that was a Lovie or JohnFox move. I did not get why they didn't try to throw the ball, pick up another 10 or 15 years and make the kick a chip shot.
Good teams win games like today. Brother Dish is right. The Bears probably are a year or two away from winning consistently. They're teasingly close... but not there. Yet.
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Chiefs/Pats was fun.
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In the 4th quarter of last night's extremely entertaining game, a Chiefs defender started to tackle Brady but let Brady go apparently because he thought Brady had already released the football and the guy didn't want to get penalized for roughing the QB. But Brady had only pump-faked and then, released by the defender, he ran into the end zone for the go-ahead TD.
Collinsworth went on and on and on about it, mentioning it repeatedly long after the Chiefs tied the game and there were other things to talk about.
I actually like Collinsworth as an analyst more than many do - and I also think the NFL ultimately has to do something about these rules - but the fact is that a defensive holding penalty was called on the play. That means the Pats would have had a first-and-goal at the 2 even if the defender hadn't stopped trying to tackle Brady.
That fact seemed to elude Collinsworth as he prattled on and on about it.
Now, first-and-goal at the 2 isn't the same as a TD. The Pats theoretically could have been stopped. But based on the defense that both teams played (or didn't play) all night, I'm pretty sure a TD still would have been the result.
Would have been nice for Al Michaels to have reminded Collinsworth (and viewers) of that fact.
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I'm not a big hate on the announcer guy. I generally like most of them. (Including Buck and Aikman.) But Collinsworth does this regularly. He makes some point and then never lets it go. It's really annoying.
Michaels suffers a bit from making references from 40 years ago that no one under the age of 50 will understand, but it generally pretty good.
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Look, we can forgive the interception. We can forgive even the fumble on the 0.00001 inch line. But when the team had a chance in OT to win and Nagy set the guy up for failure, well, that was a Lovie or JohnFox move. I did not get why they didn't try to throw the ball, pick up another 10 or 15 years and make the kick a chip shot.
Good teams win games like today. Brother Dish is right. The Bears probably are a year or two away from winning consistently. They're teasingly close... but not there. Yet.
Maybe it’s just the simple answer - Nagy doesn’t trust Mitch.
Are the Bears almost there? Depends on whether you think Mitch is almost there.
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Maybe it’s just the simple answer - Nagy doesn’t trust Mitch.
Are the Bears almost there? Depends on whether you think Mitch is almost there.
If you can't trust him to throw a pass in *that* situation in overtime, after having a pretty decent day all around, then when are you going to trust him?
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In the 4th quarter of last night's extremely entertaining game, a Chiefs defender started to tackle Brady but let Brady go apparently because he thought Brady had already released the football and the guy didn't want to get penalized for roughing the QB. But Brady had only pump-faked and then, released by the defender, he ran into the end zone for the go-ahead TD.
Collinsworth went on and on and on about it, mentioning it repeatedly long after the Chiefs tied the game and there were other things to talk about.
I actually like Collinsworth as an analyst more than many do - and I also think the NFL ultimately has to do something about these rules - but the fact is that a defensive holding penalty was called on the play. That means the Pats would have had a first-and-goal at the 2 even if the defender hadn't stopped trying to tackle Brady.
That fact seemed to elude Collinsworth as he prattled on and on about it.
Now, first-and-goal at the 2 isn't the same as a TD. The Pats theoretically could have been stopped. But based on the defense that both teams played (or didn't play) all night, I'm pretty sure a TD still would have been the result.
Would have been nice for Al Michaels to have reminded Collinsworth (and viewers) of that fact.
To be fair, I think that flag came flying after Brady "broke" the tackle. WR was watching Brady, and made a break when he realized the sack wasn't happening, DB got caught and grabbed. I remember seeing the flag fly as Brady dove towards the end zone and actually hoped it was an offensive hold.
If you can't trust him to throw a pass in *that* situation in overtime, after having a pretty decent day all around, then when are you going to trust him?
Exactly. One game removed from a near record setting performance, and in a game where, outside of one throw, he was having a solid game with good numbers, and you don't trust him at all. Thats the sort of thing that ruins young QBs. How can Trubisky gain confidence and experience when you have none in him? Just baffling.
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If you can't trust him to throw a pass in *that* situation in overtime, after having a pretty decent day all around, then when are you going to trust him?
I guess you would have ask Nagy.
I certainly think it would be the perfect time to put the ball in Trubisky’s hands both to try to win the game and as a gauge to his development at this point in his career.
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Paul Allen dead at 65. Cancer sucks.
Given he has no children, gotta think both an NBA and an NFL team are in play. Crazy
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The Pack suck.
And I don’t even care.
Haven’t watched at all, but fire Mac anyway.
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Rodgers is still the best QB to ever play the game.
And Mac will continue to be the coach of the Packers.
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Rodgers is an elite, transcendent talent.
Davante Adams is All Pro level.
Outside of that, there isn't a single high quality player on that roster. There are a few very good players like Daniels and Clark, and a handful of plus players, but that defense is devoid of talent. Matthews is done. Perry is OK. The offense outside of the two above isn't much better.
I don't know how much is coaching v. talent. My guess is coaching plays some role because with any QB lesser than Rodgers and this team is 1-5. But there is simply not enough players on this roster.
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Rodgers toys with the game clock like he's playing Madden.
The last 1:07 was ridiculous; and the last 25 seconds was insane.
Just a master.
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And Adams has come a loooong way since he dropped and/or alligator-armed his way through a Bears win and booing fans at Lambeau on Thanksgiving 3 years ago.
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How about Rodgers going for one last kick at the cat into the end zone with six seconds to go? You could see him mouthing "one more shot". Crazy good.
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How about Rodgers going for one last kick at the cat into the end zone with six seconds to go? You could see him mouthing "one more shot". Crazy good.
That was purely to leave 0:00 on the clock after the FG. He was never going to throw a catchable ball for anyone there or leave a chance at a sack. It was catch the snap and throw it in the direction of Adams and way out of bounds.
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Really is interesting how bad defenses are this year. Defenses that were considered good before the beginning of the year have all gotten lit up at one point this year (Vikes against Bills, Jags against Cowboys, Bears against Dolphins to name a few). Of course the rules are stacked for the offense, and the three teams I mentioned above all get lit up by what most would consider below average offenses.
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Really is interesting how bad defenses are this year. Defenses that were considered good before the beginning of the year have all gotten lit up at one point this year (Vikes against Bills, Jags against Cowboys, Bears against Dolphins to name a few). Of course the rules are stacked for the offense, and the three teams I mentioned above all get lit up by what most would consider below average offenses.
Across the board, offensive linemen being called for holding is a joke.
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That was purely to leave 0:00 on the clock after the FG. He was never going to throw a catchable ball for anyone there or leave a chance at a sack. It was catch the snap and throw it in the direction of Adams and way out of bounds.
I think he threw it to the outside shoulder... and if it was there, great. If not, waste it. Either way, any other team would have kicked it with 6 on the clock. Masterful.
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That was purely to leave 0:00 on the clock after the FG. He was never going to throw a catchable ball for anyone there or leave a chance at a sack. It was catch the snap and throw it in the direction of Adams and way out of bounds.
While 100% true, his incredible feel for the game is a sight to behold.
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Across the board, offensive linemen being called for holding is a joke.
Especially in the last 10 minutes of a close game. If my man is going by me toward the QB on a make-or-break drive, I'm just gonna grab him. I'd be more likely to get called for a 3-second violation in the NBA!
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Especially in the last 10 minutes of a close game. If my man is going by me toward the QB on a make-or-break drive, I'm just gonna grab him. I'd be more likely to get called for a 3-second violation in the NBA!
The last 2 primetime national games - Chiefs/Pats, Pack/49ers - were prime examples of this. Horrible throughout the 4th quarter, worse at the end. But even from the start of games, offensive linemen are being given a TON of leeway.
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Fans start griping about holding, everyone forgets about the BS roughing the passer calls. A win in the eye of the NFL.
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Fans start griping about holding, everyone forgets about the BS roughing the passer calls. A win in the eye of the NFL.
I'm willing to bet my life savings that there are MANY more missed holding calls vs called BS roughing the passer calls.
Note - I don't like the way the roughing calls have been made this year either.
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Man, Adam Thien is good.
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Jacksonville isn’t bad...they’re really bad, both sides of the ball. They flat out suck.
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Chicago/New England finish looked like a Lions game.
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Yeah Panthers!
What a comeback on the road against the defending champions!!!
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Jay Gruden beats Jason Garrett in a battle of two coaches who try to play as conservatively as possible.
Sheesh that was terrible.
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Chicago/New England finish looked like a Lions game.
Perfect representation of that game and how Mitch played. Just not quite good enough. For all the magic he did with his feet (which was incredible), he overthrew so many receivers that I lost count. Add in giving up 2 TDs on special teams, and yea, thats how you fall just short against a team like the Patriots.
Trey Burton is a BEAST. Felt like the old Greg Olsen days where he was the only one getting open.
Also, was at the game, the Trubisky TD run happened right in front of me, and it was WILD in person. Looked like a disaster, then hoped he'd just throw it away, and then it all developed. What a patient run.
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Mitch needs to learn to pass outside of the hashmarks. The Pats gave him the middle (see Burton and Cohen) including his scrambles but pressured the perimeter. Others will copy what the Pats employed but his volume to the outside was low and his decision making was poor outside the dashes.
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Don't disagree with the last 2 posts at all. I think Mitch is improving, overall. This team is at least 1 year away from being truly competitive.
Right now my bigger concern is the D. Where is any pass rush? Other than Nichols yesterday, where are the guys making lots of money? Goldman, Hicks, Floyd, etc. Mack is clearly injured/hobbled. But we got nothing on Brady (or Brock last week) and neither of those O-lines are outstanding.
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Don't disagree with the last 2 posts at all. I think Mitch is improving, overall. This team is at least 1 year away from being truly competitive.
Right now my bigger concern is the D. Where is any pass rush? Other than Nichols yesterday, where are the guys making lots of money? Goldman, Hicks, Floyd, etc. Mack is clearly injured/hobbled. But we got nothing on Brady (or Brock last week) and neither of those O-lines are outstanding.
Without Mack at his best, they truly lack the explosive pass rush. So if you dont have someone in the backfield like THAT, you just scheme for short quick passes and pick on a soft tackling secondary. Its what the Dolphins did, and the Pats did it even better.
Also, Kyle Fuller still doesn't know how to turn around to look for the ball.
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Without Mack at his best, they truly lack the explosive pass rush. So if you dont have someone in the backfield like THAT, you just scheme for short quick passes and pick on a soft tackling secondary. Its what the Dolphins did, and the Pats did it even better.
Also, Kyle Fuller still doesn't know how to turn around to look for the ball.
Collingsworth, when he stopped babbling for a minute last night, had a good piece on Andy Reid and Mahomes. They showed Mack taking 11 steps from the outside to get to a sack even with his speed and how the Chiefs' offense is designed with RPO to give it up in 5-8 steps. The conclusion was middle rush pressure is critical to stop today's offenses like the Chiefs (and the Bears don't have it).
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Trey Burton is a BEAST. Felt like the old Greg Olsen days where he was the only one getting open.
Is this where I say "Thanks!" again? If so ...
THANKS!
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Dallas gives Oakland their 2019 1st round pick for Amari Cooper.
Oakland in full on tank mode. (blows-a for Bosa?)
Dallas way overpaid for an inconsistent and injury-prone wideout who's 1.5 seasons from free agency.
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Skol Vikings, we are the best!
PS- I need 2 for Sunday night’s game - please give to me so I get it for THE FREE!
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Dallas gives Oakland their 2019 1st round pick for Amari Cooper.
Oakland in full on tank mode. (blows-a for Bosa?)
Dallas way overpaid for an inconsistent and injury-prone wideout who's 1.5 seasons from free agency.
As maligned as the Mack trade was, this is a flat out brilliant move by the Raiders. I have no clue what the Cowboys are doing here, I would have struggled to offer up a 5th rounder for Cooper, that's a heist to get a potential top 10 pick for Cooper.
Raiders could pick 1, 10ish, 16ish in next years draft.
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As maligned as the Mack trade was, this is a flat out brilliant move by the Raiders. I have no clue what the Cowboys are doing here, I would have struggled to offer up a 5th rounder for Cooper, that's a heist to get a potential top 10 pick for Cooper.
Raiders could pick 1, 10ish, 16ish in next years draft.
Also, about $75 million in cap space with a free agent class that could feature Le'Veon Bell, Clowney, Suh, Sheldon Richardson, Frank Clark, CJ Mosley, Earl Thomas. Landon Collins and more (of course, half these guys will likely never get there).
Not sure anyone should trust Gruden to get it right, but the pieces are in place for a quick rebuild.
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As maligned as the Mack trade was, this is a flat out brilliant move by the Raiders. I have no clue what the Cowboys are doing here, I would have struggled to offer up a 5th rounder for Cooper, that's a heist to get a potential top 10 pick for Cooper.
Raiders could pick 1, 10ish, 16ish in next years draft.
Agree. Was Jerry drinking? Raiders setting themselves up for Vegas...
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Across the board, offensive linemen being called for holding is a joke.
For example....
https://twitter.com/BearsBarroom/status/1054092831390863360?s=19
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For example....
https://twitter.com/BearsBarroom/status/1054092831390863360?s=19
I liked the first comment "the NFL rule 4.01, the NE Patriots do not get called for holding ever."
I've noticed that in watching their games, holding calls are a joke in the NFL in general, but the Patriots are probably the worst offenders and it is never called. Got to protect Brady.
I remember a game earlier this year, where the defender was actually tackled from behind by the offensive player right in front of an official. No call.
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If the NFL is giving holding calls, how the effort does Bulaga get it called so much? He's just that bad, right?
He's going to have a really nice 2019 season with the Bears.
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Hall of Fame receiver and Fox Sports analyst Cris Carter on Cam Newton leading the Panthers back from a 17-point 4th-quarter deficit to defeat the defending Super Bowl champion Eagles:
“If this was Tom Brady (who) had done that, if he had a 133 passer rating in the fourth quarter, at Philadelphia, we’d be talking about it. If it was Aaron Rodgers, we would have talked about it. If Cam Newton was up 17 points and Carson Wentz had come back, we would have talked about it. Cam Newton beat the world champs with his head. This is what we know (how) Cam Newton is capable of playing. This is the level we know Cam Newton is capable of playing. His MVP season we saw it almost week after week after week. .... It was a tremendous game by one of our best quarterbacks that we have, on the road against the world champs.”
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Hall of Fame receiver and Fox Sports analyst Cris Carter on Cam Newton leading the Panthers back from a 17-point 4th-quarter deficit to defeat the defending Super Bowl champion Eagles:
“If this was Tom Brady (who) had done that, if he had a 133 passer rating in the fourth quarter, at Philadelphia, we’d be talking about it. If it was Aaron Rodgers, we would have talked about it. If Cam Newton was up 17 points and Carson Wentz had come back, we would have talked about it. Cam Newton beat the world champs with his head. This is what we know (how) Cam Newton is capable of playing. This is the level we know Cam Newton is capable of playing. His MVP season we saw it almost week after week after week. .... It was a tremendous game by one of our best quarterbacks that we have, on the road against the world champs.”
I think the question that remains is: why is it that quarterbacks like Cam Newton don't seem to get the credit that Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Wentz get?
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I think the question that remains is: why is it that quarterbacks like Cam Newton don't seem to get the credit that Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Wentz get?
Because all of those guys have something on their finger that $cam doesn't, and the first 3 are head and shoulders better football players than $cam is.
Also, what credit does Wentz get? When he was killing it to start last year as a second year player, yes he was getting praise. This year? I haven't paid nearly as much attention to the NFL as I normally do, but I don't see anyone really glorifying him other than "He's better than Nick Foles."
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Here in Charlotte, I definitely hear thinly veiled racist remarks about Cam all the time. There were (white) people here who actually wanted Derek Anderson to start over Cam because Anderson is "more humble." One yahoo actually told me he thought Cam was "too colorful." Those were his exact words. Lots of racists here in North Cackilacky.
And I do agree with Carter that if Brady or Rodgers had executed that comeback, it would have been the No. 1 story on every NFL recap. It was Cam, though, so it wasn't even mentioned in the first segment of any of them; and then, it was mentioned in the context of the defending champs blowing the game. Cam definitely didn't get his due in the programs I watched.
However, I also agree with wades that Brady, Rodgers and Brees have proven to be much better than Cam over the long haul and have earned their accolades.
Whether Cam's race had something to do with the generally muted response to what truly was an incredible fourth-quarter performance, none of us can know that. I like to think not.
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Because all of those guys have something on their finger that $cam doesn't, and the first 3 are head and shoulders better football players than $cam is.
Why the nickname?
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Why the nickname?
Becau$e that'$ been hi$ nickname $ince the day he hi$ dad wa$ paid to $tep on the Auburn campu$.
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Why the nickname?
Because he doesn't like him over an admittedly very stupid thing did when Cam was 19 and something his father orchestrated during his recruitment, and in typical Wades fashion, he can't ever let anything go.
On topic, the legacy of Cam Newton, barring notable future playoff success, will be VERY interesting. When he's been on, he's unstoppable. He may not have the accuracy of Rodgers or Brady, but neither of them had the potential to be a RB/TE in the open field or short yardage like him. However, he's been very inconsistent. Thats part of why I feel he's been underrated as a passer. People see his ability to move outside of the pocket, and his inconsistency, and he gets labeled another inaccurate "running QB".
However, he's still young, his game is entirely predicated on his legs, so he can age well like other QBs if he stays healthy and not beat up, and he's well positioned to have success when Brady/Brees (and to a lesser extent) Rodgers retire in a few years. I hope he puts it together cause he is REALLY fun to watch. Be nice if they could get him another stud WR. Demaryius Thomas is available...
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Becau$e that'$ been hi$ nickname $ince the day he hi$ dad wa$ paid to $tep on the Auburn campu$.
Very odd thing to hang onto what he did at that age considering what he has done since. And I'm not sure why you would focus on him since, if we have learned anything, dozens of players have likely received similar payments without you applying a similar nickname.
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Because he doesn't like him over an admittedly very stupid thing did when Cam was 19 and something his father orchestrated during his recruitment, and in typical Wades fashion, he can't ever let anything go.
Huh? When did I ever say I have anything against $cam besides he can dish the trash talk when things are going well but when he loses he storms out of press conferences? And laughs at a reporter because she asked an intelligent football question and women shouldn't do that according to him?
Pretty odd response.
Very odd thing to hang onto what he did at that age considering what he has done since. And I'm not sure why you would focus on him since, if we have learned anything, dozens of players have likely received similar payments without you applying a similar nickname.
If DeAndre Ayton had a name that I could add a single symbol to and turn it into a nickname, I'd do the same.
Or Tyler Herro, if what you're getting at is I don't make nicknames for white people lol. I hope that helps you sleep better at night.
Unfortunately I can't say I came up with $cam's nickname myself.
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Huh? When did I ever say I have anything against $cam besides he can dish the trash talk when things are going well but when he loses he storms out of press conferences? And laughs at a reporter because she asked an intelligent football question and women shouldn't do that according to him?
Pretty odd response.
Because you insist on calling him a nickname that even grudge holders who hated him in SEC country havent called him in 7-8 years? Its not funny, its not particularly clever, and its not commonly used anywhere. But you're the only person on this board who uses it routinely whenever he comes up. Forgive me if I misinterpreted your neutral and balanced commentary on him.
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Huh? When did I ever say I have anything against $cam besides he can dish the trash talk when things are going well but when he loses he storms out of press conferences? And laughs at a reporter because she asked an intelligent football question and women shouldn't do that according to him?
Pretty odd response.
If DeAndre Ayton had a name that I could add a single symbol to and turn it into a nickname, I'd do the same.
Or Tyler Herro, if what you're getting at is I don't make nicknames for white people lol. I hope that helps you sleep better at night.
Unfortunately I can't say I came up with $cam's nickname myself.
pAyton, hey?
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Because you insist on calling him a nickname that even grudge holders who hated him in SEC country havent called him in 7-8 years? Its not funny, its not particularly clever, and its not commonly used anywhere. But you're the only person on this board who uses it routinely whenever he comes up. Forgive me if I misinterpreted your neutral and balanced commentary on him.
How often does $cam come up on here? Lol.
pAyton, hey?
I actually did think about that, but Payton/Peyton are common different names.
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wades' use of $cam is silly, and like most silly things it should be ignored. So I long ago stopped acknowledging it.
Cam has matured a lot over the years. By all accounts, he has learned from his past mistakes, he is a great father to his kids, he is an extremely charitable guy and he is wonderful in this community. His attitude this season has been extraordinary after losses and wins.
As a football player, he is very hard working. He and Kuechly "compete" to see who will be the first to arrive at Panthers HQ each day and who will be the last to leave. He is a far more studious a QB than is given credit for; I can't help but think much of that is race-related. (The white guys are studious and hard-working, the black guys are naturally talented.)
Cam has adapted well to Norv Turner's system this season. Only once in his first 7 years did he complete more than 60% of his passes, and that was 2013 when it was 61.7%. This season he is at 65.6%. His interception percentage is at a career-low 1.9%. Although he has (smartly) checked down with short passes to McCaffrey and others, he is averaging 238 ypg, only 2 ypg lower than his MVP season and better than his career average.
In each of the last two games, he has been the lead blocker on a reverse. Two weeks ago, he pancaked a safety. This past Sunday, two potential tacklers got out of his way rather than being flattened by him. He is an absolute freak.
On the winning drive Sunday, the Panthers faced a 4th-and-10. Cam made an amazing play.
https://www.panthers.com/video/newton-smith-connect-to-convert-fourth-and-10
Be nice if they could get him another stud WR. Demaryius Thomas is available.
Except for the lack of a true No. 1 in the mold of Brown, Jones, Beckham, Green, etc, I really like the Panthers' receivers. Rookie D.J. Moore is gonna be an absolute stud; by this time next year, he will be a star in the league. Funchess is a big target with some skill - very Demaryius Thomas-like. Torrey Smith and Jarius Wright are vets with a knack for getting open on 3rd down and for getting YAC. Curtis Samuel, their second-round pick in 2017, is one of the fastest guys in the league and he's finally healthy; he has made two sensational plays this season. Plus, McCaffrey is a great pass-catching RB and Olsen is one of the best TEs in the league.
As a team their main weakness has been in the defensive backfield, although they played very well in the 4th quarter Sunday. Their OL has been decimated by injuries - both starting tackles are out - but the fill-ins actually have done a very decent job.
Cam is a great player, a former MVP, a multiple Pro Bowl participant, and he seems to be a decent guy. I'm glad he's "my" QB.
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People see his ability to move outside of the pocket, and his inconsistency, and he gets labeled another inaccurate "running QB".
So basically the same assumption that is thrust upon every black QB since Michael Vick.
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So basically the same assumption that is thrust upon every black QB since Michael Vick.
Vick?
Goes all the way back to Joe Gilliam, Vince Evans, etc.
Randall Cunningham predated Vick by 15 years and faced the same stuff.
To be fair, much of the same was said about the likes of Douglass, Elway and Young. They were seen as running QBs ... until they either proved themselves as passers (Elway, Young) or didn't (Douglass).
But yes, I think when the casual (and some not-so-casual) fan sees a black QB, the knee-jerk reaction is "running QB."
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Of the top 10 quarterbacks in passing yards, 9 of them are white. Of the top 10 quarterbacks in rushing yards, 5 of them are black. Maybe black quarterbacks are seen more as running threats because, well, more black quarterbacks are running threats?
And from what I can find, there are 7 black starting quarterbacks in the NFL, and one of those seven has only played in 3 games this season and sits at 13 in rushing yards for quarterbacks, so he'd probably also be in the top 10 had he not been suspended to start the year.
So basically 6 of the 7 starting quarterbacks that are black are in the top 10 in rushing yards for quarterbacks this season. Only 1 of the 7 are top 10 in passing yards, and that 1 sits at number 9.
But yes, thinking black quarterbacks are more of a running threat is just racism in America and not based on facts.
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Of the top 10 quarterbacks in passing yards, 9 of them are white. Of the top 10 quarterbacks in rushing yards, 5 of them are black. Maybe black quarterbacks are seen more as running threats because, well, more black quarterbacks are running threats?
How about this? There are quarterbacks who are better at passing, and quarterbacks who are better at running. Their race is irrelevant to the conversation.
If "black quarterbacks are seen more as running threats" simply because more black quarterbacks are running threats, that is the very definition of prejudice.
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How about this? There are quarterbacks who are better at passing, and quarterbacks who are better at running. Their race is irrelevant to the conversation.
If "black quarterbacks are seen more as running threats" simply because more black quarterbacks are running threats, that is the very definition of prejudice.
So saying "there are more black NBA players than white NBA players" is prejudice?
Sorry, agree to disagree.
I don't think race matters in defining an individual's skillset. I also don't think it's racist or prejudiced to look at stats and conclude that there is a higher percentage of black quarterbacks towards the top of rushing yards in the NFL. It's just a fact. I don't think we need to turn everything into racism.
I would consider $cam to be more of a rushing threat because he is 3rd in the NFL in rushing yards by quarterbacks and 27th in the NFL in passing yards. If that means I'm racist because $cam is black and I think he's more of a rushing threat then I guess I'm a racist. It really has nothing to do with race. Just simple stats.
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So saying "there are more black NBA players than white NBA players" is prejudice?
No because that's a quantifiable fact. It would be prejudicial to then state, "this black guy must be better at basketball than this white guy because there are more black players in the NBA."
Sorry, agree to disagree.
It's not an opinion. It's the very definition of the word "prejudice."
I would consider $cam to be more of a rushing threat because he is 3rd in the NFL in rushing yards by quarterbacks and 27th in the NFL in passing yards. If that means I'm racist because $cam is black and I think he's more of a rushing threat then I guess I'm a racist. It really has nothing to do with race. Just simple stats.
No no. The difference is extrapolating a skill set based on their race. That's exactly what you were doing in the second sentence of your post.
Maybe black quarterbacks are seen more as running threats because, well, more black quarterbacks are running threats?
That's a prejudicial statement. Black quarterbacks shouldn't be "seen" as running quarterbacks unless they actually are running quarterbacks.
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No because that's a quantifiable fact. It would be prejudicial to then state, "this black guy must be better at basketball than this white guy because there are more black players in the NBA."
It's not an opinion. It's the very definition of the word "prejudice."
No no. The difference is extrapolating a skill set based on their race. That's exactly what you were doing in the second sentence of your post.
That's a prejudicial statement. Black quarterbacks shouldn't be "seen" as running quarterbacks unless they actually are running quarterbacks.
Again, I think the black quarterbacks in the NFL, which is what we are discussing here, are seen as running threats because, well, 6 of the 7 black starting quarterbacks are top running threats for NFL quarterbacks. That's not prejudiced. That's factual. Go look up the stats if you don't believe it. Guys like Dak or $cam or Watson, the guys being discussed here, are viewed as running threats because they are in the top 5 of rushing yards by quarterbacks in the NFL. It's not because of their skin color. It's because that's what they are, running threat quarterbacks.
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I don't think race matters in defining an individual's skillset. I also don't think it's racist or prejudiced to look at stats and conclude that there is a higher percentage of black quarterbacks towards the top of rushing yards in the NFL. It's just a fact. I don't think we need to turn everything into racism.
The first sentence here is the most important part of this conversation, and its the reason the stats in the NFL are what they are. Throughout a player's development, race absolutely plays a huge role in his coach's perception of him, what position he should play, and how he should be used. But wades isn't wrong that by the time players get to the NFL, that train has left the station. The real impact of railroading players into certain positions starts in youth football, into high school and then even into college.
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The first sentence here is the most important part of this conversation, and its the reason the stats in the NFL are what they are. Throughout a player's development, race absolutely plays a huge role in his coach's perception of him, what position he should play, and how he should be used. But wades isn't wrong that by the time players get to the NFL, that train has left the station. The real impact of railroading players into certain positions starts in youth football, into high school and then even into college.
A good point.
But isn't that also true in all sports, regardless of race? The tall guy is a center in basketball. The fat guy is a lineman in football. Etc.
(Sorry, didn't mean to make this only about men either to anybody that may offend. The tall person. The overweight person.)
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Eye'm figurin' wee should all look like Waldo. Den no won has an ax ta grind, hey?
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Eye'm figurin' wee should all look like Waldo. Den no won has an ax ta grind, hey?
You should all be so fortunate.
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Again, I think the black quarterbacks in the NFL, which is what we are discussing here, are seen as running threats because, well, 6 of the 7 black starting quarterbacks are top running threats for NFL quarterbacks. That's not prejudiced. That's factual. Go look up the stats if you don't believe it. Guys like Dak or $cam or Watson, the guys being discussed here, are viewed as running threats because they are in the top 5 of rushing yards by quarterbacks in the NFL. It's not because of their skin color. It's because that's what they are, running threat quarterbacks.
One last time.
Just because 6 of the 7 leading quaterback rushers are black, that doesn't mean that you should look at a generic black quarterback and label him a running quarterback.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/YnmEsq9ICSYQ8/giphy.gif)
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One last time.
Just because 6 of the 7 leading quaterback rushers are black, that doesn't mean that you should look at a generic black quarterback and label him a running quarterback.
We were looking at $cam Newton. He’s not a generic black quarterback. He’s a quarterback that’s 3rd in rushing yards for quarterbacks and 27th in passing yards. Black or white, he’s more of a rushing threat than most QBs and less of a passing threat.
Then moved on to black NFL QBs. The stats for them are above. White quarterbacks were brought up as well. Other white QBs are running threats as well. Rodgers when healthy. Wentz when healthy. Trubisky.
White, black, orange, yellow. Skin color doesn’t matter. But factually there are more black quarterbacks towards the top of rushing yards for QBs in the NFL. Just a fact.
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We were looking at $cam Newton. He’s not a generic black quarterback. He’s a quarterback that’s 3rd in rushing yards for quarterbacks and 27th in passing yards. Black or white, he’s more of a rushing threat than most QBs and less of a passing threat.
Now you're just shifting goalposts again. This post doesn't mention Newton nor does quote a post that mentions him.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56224.msg1048082#msg1048082
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This thread got stupid
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Now you're just shifting goalposts again. This post doesn't mention Newton nor does quote a post that mentions him.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56224.msg1048082#msg1048082
The entire conversation was about $cam. If you would like I will edit it and quote the 5 or so posts before it so that you can follow along.
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Cam is plenty of a threat as a passer. He was MVP in 2015 not because he ran the ball better than anybody (he did, but he often does) but because he had 35 TD passes and only 10 INTs for a 15-1 team. He led 6 late winning drives that season, not with his feet but with his arm.
When he came into the league, I'm sure most people looked at him as a running QB because he's black (and because he ran a lot at Auburn). Then he put up 422 and 432 passing yards in the very first two games of his rookie season.
In the comeback he led Sunday, he went 17-22 for 201 yards and 2 TDs, and set up another score. Pretty much all with his arm.
Given that he has attempted 3,629 passes in his career vs. 880 rushes, I'd say he is 4x the passing QB he is than a running QB.
But yeah ... he runs it better than anybody.
Three of the greatest all-time running QBs were Steve Young, Fran Tarkenton and Roger Staubach. They were all passing QBs, too.
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Everson re-joining the Consensus Vikings
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wades' use of $cam is silly, and like most silly things it should be ignored. So I long ago stopped acknowledging it.
Cam has matured a lot over the years. By all accounts, he has learned from his past mistakes, he is a great father to his kids, he is an extremely charitable guy and he is wonderful in this community. His attitude this season has been extraordinary after losses and wins.
By over the years, do you mean 1 year and 18 days?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cam-newton-response-female-reporter-sparks-controversy/
I like Cam, but thought it unusual your comment while also digging at Machado in the other conversation.
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By over the years, do you mean 1 year and 18 days?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cam-newton-response-female-reporter-sparks-controversy/
I like Cam, but thought it unusual your comment while also digging at Machado in the other conversation.
Cam apologized to that reporter, both privately and publicly.
Machado?
Also, one guy said something. The other guy deliberately, maliciously tries to injure opponents. So very nice false equivalence, cubbiechicos.
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Cam apologized to that reporter, both privately and publicly.
Machado?
After scrutiny to do so, Newton did. I'm sure his agent said you are losing $$$, which he did when at least one sponsor kicked him to the curb. That doesn't change the remark you made that he has matured a lot over the years to make the comment to begin with, does it?
Machado is not my guy, not a fan of his attitude and said so here that he would be tough to cheer for. If he becomes a Cub, then I hope the front office, coaches and players can get him aligned. Cam seems to be your guy, which is fine.
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After scrutiny to do so, Newton did. I'm sure his agent said you are losing $$$, which he did when at least one sponsor kicked him to the curb. That doesn't change the remark you made that he has matured a lot over the years to make the comment to begin with, does it?
Machado is not my guy, not a fan of his attitude and said so here that he would be tough to cheer for. If he becomes a Cub, then I hope the front office, coaches and players we can get him aligned. Cam seems to be your guy, which is fine.
FIFY.
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Machado?
Also, one guy said something. The other guy deliberately, maliciously tries to injure opponents. So very nice false equivalence, cubbiechicos.
He clipped the guys foot. He didn't run him over in the parking lot.
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Everson re-joining the Consensus Vikings
Would have to think that's a positive step. All the reports seem cautiously optimistic that its part of his broader treatment plan. Wouldn't be surprised if its as much to have him with the team and help structure his time as anything else, which even if he doesn't play on sundays for awhile is probably a boost to the locker room.
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Is there an institutional racism version of Godwin's Law?
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Is there an institutional racism version of Godwin's Law?
No, but IR is often on the road to fulfilling Godwin's Law.
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After scrutiny to do so, Newton did. I'm sure his agent said you are losing $$$, which he did when at least one sponsor kicked him to the curb. That doesn't change the remark you made that he has matured a lot over the years to make the comment to begin with, does it?
Machado is not my guy, not a fan of his attitude and said so here that he would be tough to cheer for. If he becomes a Cub, then I hope the front office, coaches and players can get him aligned. Cam seems to be your guy, which is fine.
Cam has matured over the years. Saying something dopey a year ago and then apologizing for it doesn't mean he has failed to mature. I mean, we say dopey stuff all the time here. I don't have a "my guy," but I think he's an outstanding player and he has grown to become an extremely positive force in the Charlotte community.
Nice justifying on Machado.
He clipped the guys foot. He didn't run him over in the parking lot.
He intentionally kicked the foot of an opponent who easily could have suffered an injury on the play. Again, if this were the only time, one could dismiss it. As Yelich correctly noted, Machado has a long history of dirty play with intent to injure. You are free to dismiss that history if you'd like, but it doesn't mean the history isn't real.
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Lions made a trade today that was a shocker. For the first time that I can remember, they acquired in-season a guy who was exactly what they need, at the time they need him, for a bargain price. And when I say first time..... 40 years? Getting Damon Harrison from the Giants for a 5th rounder.... a premier run stopper for a defense ranked near the bottom against the run. A big (literally and figuratively) get.
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He clipped the guys foot. He didn't run him over in the parking lot.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f6be2754a99d6e6755876a50c99c4cce/tenor.gif?itemid=5461131)
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He intentionally kicked the foot of an opponent who easily could have suffered an injury on the play. Again, if this were the only time, one could dismiss it. As Yelich correctly noted, Machado has a long history of dirty play with intent to injure. You are free to dismiss that history if you'd like, but it doesn't mean the history isn't real.
An ankle injury? Dios me libre!
Machado's play was dirty and all, but the pearl clutching and outrage seems way over the top in a league where intentionally throwing a 5-ounce projectile at speeds topping 90 mph at a person from 60 feet away is considered at times justified. Push comes to shove, I'd much rather be kicked in the shin than drilled in the ribs.
Seriously, there's a more dangerous play than what Machado did in every single NFL and NHL game.
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An ankle injury? Dios me libre!
Machado's play was dirty and all, but the pearl clutching and outrage seems way over the top in a league where intentionally throwing a 5-ounce projectile at speeds topping 90 mph at a person from 60 feet away is considered at times justified. Push comes to shove, I'd much rather be kicked in the shin than drilled in the ribs.
Seriously, there's a more dangerous play than what Machado did in every single NFL and NHL game.
Well, having one's leg intentionally kicked and having one's head thrown at are not mutually exclusive. A ballplayer can have both happen to him in the same inning.
I didn't expect you to condone an obvious attempt to injure from a guy with a history of it, Pakuni.
As for beanballs and other purpose pitches demanded by the "unwritten rules," I do not like them at all. When somebody gets killed or permanently maimed by one, it will be a dark day for baseball.
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Well, having one's leg intentionally kicked and having one's head thrown at are not mutually exclusive. A ballplayer can have both happen to him in the same inning.
I didn't expect you to condone an obvious attempt to injure from a guy with a history of it, Pakuni.
As for beanballs and other purpose pitches demanded by the "unwritten rules," I do not like them at all. When somebody gets killed or permanently maimed by one, it will be a dark day for baseball.
How did you read "Machado's play was dirty" as me condoning it?
My point is that what he did is far less dangerous than actions - namely intentionally throwing at batters - that occur far more frequently, and with the league's and teams' tacit approval (and at times encouragement). Those actions draw far less scrutiny, and at times even cheers from both fans and players/coaches, than Machado's.
I'll say it again so we're clear: Machado committed a dirty play. But the reaction to that dirty play has been over the top. In a league in which throwing at players is an accepted and encouraged form of frontier justice for grave sins like watching a home run for too long or flipping a bat, I find it hard to get too worked up over what Machado did.
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How did you read "Machado's play was dirty" as me condoning it?
My point is that what he did is far less dangerous than actions - namely intentionally throwing at batters - that occur far more frequently, and with the league's and teams' tacit approval (and at times encouragement). Those actions draw far less scrutiny, and at times even cheers from both fans and players/coaches, than Machado's.
I'll say it again so we're clear: Machado committed a dirty play. But the reaction to that dirty play has been over the top. In a league in which throwing at players is an accepted and encouraged form of frontier justice for grave sins like watching a home run for too long or flipping a bat, I find it hard to get too worked up over what Machado did.
I am able to get suitably worked up over both. Versatility!
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Who the f*ck is this Machado guy and why the f*ck is he in my NFL thread?
Don't make me get off on a tangent about how boring and sucky baseball is compared to every other sport ever made ever including ice dancing.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/8202b3356a521aa2f926c82d1342f8bb/tenor.gif?itemid=9390151)
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Who the f*ck is this Machado guy and why the f*ck is he in my NFL thread?
Don't make me get off on a tangent about how boring and sucky baseball is compared to every other sport ever made ever including ice dancing.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/8202b3356a521aa2f926c82d1342f8bb/tenor.gif?itemid=9390151)
Fun fact: You could have watched 93 ice dancing free competitions in the same time it took to play last night's game. (Which wasn't long BTW.)
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Who the f*ck is this Machado guy and why the f*ck is he in my NFL thread?
Well, cubbiechicos decided to introduce him here so he could make false equivalences to Cam Newton.
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Well, cubbiechicos decided to introduce him here so he could make false equivalences to Cam Newton.
Oh brother.
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Watching tonite's game, it is easy to see why Osweiler torched the Bears.
He is a stud!!
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Watching tonite's game, it is easy to see why Osweiler torched the Bears.
He is a stud!!
Yes, any Bears fan still riding high after the Chi-Mia game has to back down to earth after watching what Detroit and Houston did to Miami. Yikes.
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Fantasy question for those who follow it better than I do...
Cam vs. Baltimore, or Goff vs. The Pack?
I'm leaning Goff, but want to make sure that's not totally due to my inherent Packers skepticism.
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Yes, any Bears fan still riding high after the Chi-Mia game has to back down to earth after watching what Detroit and Houston did to Miami. Yikes.
Sarcasm?
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Fantasy question for those who follow it better than I do...
Cam vs. Baltimore, or Goff vs. The Pack?
I'm leaning Goff, but want to make sure that's not totally due to my inherent Packers skepticism.
Goff
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Fantasy question for those who follow it better than I do...
Cam vs. Baltimore, or Goff vs. The Pack?
I'm leaning Goff, but want to make sure that's not totally due to my inherent Packers skepticism.
I have the exact same conundrum in one of my leagues this week. I'm going Goff
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Yes, any Bears fan still riding high after the Chi-Mia game has to back down to earth after watching what Detroit and Houston did to Miami. Yikes.
Truly a sad end to Brocktoberfest. He (and therefore the Dolphins offense) has been great when the receivers are running east-west routes and then racking up YAC - but he still can't throw the ball down the field worth a damn.
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Fantasy question for those who follow it better than I do...
Cam vs. Baltimore, or Goff vs. The Pack?
I'm leaning Goff, but want to make sure that's not totally due to my inherent Packers skepticism.
Baltimore has been one of the top Defenses in the NFL season. GB is not. Goff at home should light up vs the Packers.
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Baltimore has been one of the top Defenses in the NFL season. GB is not. Goff at home should light up vs the Packers.
Agree but the Rams will also hand it to Gurley Man more often to keep AR off the field.
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This from the Charlotte Observer:
Since he was drafted in 2011, Newton is one of just four QBs to have 17 game-winning drives, joining Tom Brady, Joe Flacco and Andrew Luck.
Rivera was asked if Newton is overlooked when compared to a player such as Aaron Rodgers, who has 14 game-winning drives in that span.
"I think he gets overlooked because of his style of play. It's not a typical style. He runs the ball a lot. He's not a pure, pure pocket passer, although there are elements of his game where he plays very well from the pocket. He's good on the move. I think the success he has in the fourth quarter with the comebacks is a lot about his desire and wanting to win."
This from me:
Happy to have Cam as my team's QB.
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I’ll take a QB who is simply ahead the entire 4th quarter more often.
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I’ll take a QB who is simply ahead the entire 4th quarter more often.
Nobody said Cam was better than Rodgers ... though he did get the best of Rodgers, who wasn't able to complete the 4th quarter comeback last season.
They have won the exact same number of Super Bowls since 2011. Both did fail to win one after a 15-1 season, but at least one of them got to the Super Bowl!
And since 2012, Panthers are 62-29-1 with 3 division titles, a wild card and a Super Bowl appearances; Packers are 61-39-2 with 4 division titles, a wild card and no Super Bowl appearances.
FWIW ... which is nuthin' if you don't win it all.
I didn't say I'd take Cam over Rodgers. All I said is I'm happy to have Cam as my team's QB. Which I am.
Let me know when your guy wins the SB, and I'll do the same when my guy does.
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Nobody said Cam was better than Rodgers ... though he did get the best of Rodgers, who wasn't able to complete the 4th quarter comeback last season.
They have won the exact same number of Super Bowls since 2011. Both did fail to win one after a 15-1 season, but at least one of them got to the Super Bowl!
And since 2012, Panthers are 62-29-1 with 3 division titles, a wild card and a Super Bowl appearances; Packers are 61-39-2 with 4 division titles, a wild card and no Super Bowl appearances.
FWIW ... which is nuthin' if you don't win it all.
I didn't say I'd take Cam over Rodgers. All I said is I'm happy to have Cam as my team's QB. Which I am.
Let me know when your guy wins the SB, and I'll do the same when my guy does.
Sure thing. “My guy” won it in 2011. I’ll wait on “yours.”
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Sure thing. “My guy” won it in 2011. I’ll wait on “yours.”
I'm looking forward to Cam joining Rodgers on that list, along with Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Nick Foles and Jeff Hostetler.
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I'm looking forward to Cam joining Rodgers on that list, along with Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Nick Foles and Jeff Hostetler.
Just stop. Rodgers was dominant that post season. The guys above just managed the game around them.
I like Cam. Glad you do too. But you’re straying into fanboy territory here.
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Back to the question on Week 8 Fantasy Football QB starts, not these Scoop meanderings. I use this tool as a first step:
Goff at 98% over Cam. (Also, AR at 98% over Cam.) The main decider is Baltimore's defense.
https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/start/cam-newton-jared-goff.php
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There might as well be a Cam Newton Pissing Match Thread at this point.
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FIFY.
Fans don't have that power, it will come from his teammates and coaches, or more importantly from within.
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Vick?
Goes all the way back to Joe Gilliam, Vince Evans, etc.
Randall Cunningham predated Vick by 15 years and faced the same stuff.
To be fair, much of the same was said about the likes of Douglass, Elway and Young. They were seen as running QBs ... until they either proved themselves as passers (Elway, Young) or didn't (Douglass).
But yes, I think when the casual (and some not-so-casual) fan sees a black QB, the knee-jerk reaction is "running QB."
Should Doug Williams be considered a running QB? Warren Moon? Culpepper? Hell, Greg Landry has more rushing yards as a QB than most of the black QBs. I think some people have predisposed positions on various topics.
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Fans don't have that power, it will come from his teammates and coaches, or more importantly from within.
But the fans had the power to win the 2016 WS? Got it.
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I think some people have predisposed positions on various topics.
Not you though, Chicos. Not you. Lol!
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Should Doug Williams be considered a running QB? Warren Moon? Culpepper? Hell, Greg Landry has more rushing yards as a QB than most of the black QBs. I think some people have predisposed positions on various topics.
I think we actually agree on most of this. Culpepper was a pass-first QB who also could run well before injuries set in. The others were not very big runners. And yes about Landry. Tarkenton, Staubach and Young were more runners than many of the black QBs named, and Elway was early on. The knock on Staubach and Young was that they scrambled too much as opposed to Morton and Montana.
As for your last sentence, however ... pot, meet kettle!
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Just stop. Rodgers was dominant that post season. The guys above just managed the game around them.
I like Cam. Glad you do too. But you’re straying into fanboy territory here.
And I like Rodgers very much as a QB. One of my favorite players to watch in the entire NFL. That comeback against the Bears, while playing on one leg, amazing - even by his very lofty standards.
And of course I'm a Cam fan. Damn good QB.
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I’ll take a QB who is simply ahead the entire 4th quarter more often.
You get at the heart of why this is one of the most over-rated stats. It implies that a person who sits on his ass for three quarters before he shows up, is somehow more valuable than the person who just kicked ass from the coin toss.
I know that is an over generalization, but a purely dominant and elite player will not have opportunities for 4th quarter comebacks.
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But the fans had the power to win the 2016 WS? Got it.
Directly, no, but indirectly provided the energy in the ballpark, yes. There is a reason why home field advantage is a thing.
Now, when it comes to changing behavior of individuals, the fans may have some degree of sway, but my personal opinion it has to come from within and from his or her mentors, coaches, peers. One man's opinion.
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I think we actually agree on most of this. Culpepper was a pass-first QB who also could run well before injuries set in. The others were not very big runners. And yes about Landry. Tarkenton, Staubach and Young were more runners than many of the black QBs named, and Elway was early on. The knock on Staubach and Young was that they scrambled too much as opposed to Morton and Montana.
As for your last sentence, however ... pot, meet kettle!
We all come with our biases.
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Directly, no, but indirectly provided the energy in the ballpark, yes. There is a reason why home field advantage is a thing.
Now, when it comes to changing behavior of individuals, the fans may have some degree of sway, but my personal opinion it has to come from within and from his or her mentors, coaches, peers. One man's opinion.
Is it “a thing?” Just off the top of my head, over the last few seasons there have been a few do or die situations. Tie breakers this season, the home team went 1-1 in them. Wild card games this season, the home team went 1-1 in them. Believe we had a single deciding game this postseason and the road team won it. The last 2 World Series have seen the road team win a game 7.
The Red Sox are outscoring their opponents 42-16 and are 5-1 on the road this Post Season.
Then again, maybe road teams just have Chicos on speed dial telling them how to manage the bullpen and that’s why they’re winning?
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Fans don't have that power, it will come from his teammates and coaches, or more importantly from within.
Bottom line, he is a very good player that I don't care for. If we do sign him, my hope is we can get to his head and change some of things he does. I believe in reformation and a few chances in life, not totally throwing people on the trash pile. I didn't realize you were such a hardliner.
Lol.
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You get at the heart of why this is one of the most over-rated stats. It implies that a person who sits on his ass for three quarters before he shows up, is somehow more valuable than the person who just kicked ass from the coin toss.
I know that is an over generalization, but a purely dominant and elite player will not have opportunities for 4th quarter comebacks.
I think it is overrated in many ways, too. The stat alone doesn't tell us enough about everything that happened to necessitate a game-winning drive. Did he play poorly for 3+ quarters before figuring things out? Was he in a shoot-out in which neither team's defense could stop the other offense and it was a "last man with the ball wins" thing? Something in between those extremes? The stat is wanting.
Of course, the guy who has the most of these comebacks since 2011 is Tom Brady, who doesn't usually "sit on his ass for three quarters before showing up." Although he did bite the big one for most of the first three quarters of the SB 2 years ago before lighting it up against Atlanta,. that's true.
Given that the two QBs in this discussion have just about the exact same record the last 6 years, and their records are pretty darn good, I don't think either of them has done too much three-quarter ass-sitting.
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Is it “a thing?” Just off the top of my head, over the last few seasons there have been a few do or die situations. Tie breakers this season, the home team went 1-1 in them. Wild card games this season, the home team went 1-1 in them. Believe we had a single deciding game this postseason and the road team won it. The last 2 World Series have seen the road team win a game 7.
The Red Sox are outscoring their opponents 42-16 and are 5-1 on the road this Post Season.
Then again, maybe road teams just have Chicos on speed dial telling them how to manage the bullpen and that’s why they’re winning?
In MLB, the home team wins 54.1% of the time. Yes, home field advantage is real. Not overwhelming, that is why games are played, but statistically a bump. How? Mostly because the home teams tend to get more calls from officials. They can be influenced by the crowd. Secondly, because in a game like baseball you have the last ups, you know if you need to go for broke, that has nothing to do with the crowd.
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I think it is overrated in many ways, too. The stat alone doesn't tell us enough about everything that happened to necessitate a game-winning drive. Did he play poorly for 3+ quarters before figuring things out? Was he in a shoot-out in which neither team's defense could stop the other offense and it was a "last man with the ball wins" thing? Something in between those extremes? The stat is wanting.
Of course, the guy who has the most of these comebacks since 2011 is Tom Brady, who doesn't usually "sit on his ass for three quarters before showing up." Although he did bite the big one for most of the first three quarters of the SB 2 years ago before lighting it up against Atlanta,. that's true.
Given that the two QBs in this discussion have just about the exact same record the last 6 years, and their records are pretty darn good, I don't think either of them has done too much three-quarter ass-sitting.
I think the fact that Brady is the leader is problematic for his legacy (personally). There is zero doubt he has been behind the best offensive line in the NFL for almost his entire career. He has had the best coach in the game. Had some of the best weapons on offense, and at times a dominating defense.
Why the hell is that team having to make so many 4th quarter comebacks.
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Jets are awful.
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Same old Lions.
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That is easily the stupidest football play I’ve seen since Brandon Bostick.
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Yep. Should be cut before the plane takes off.
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That is easily the stupidest football play I’ve seen since Brandon Bostick.
I just said to my wife I have not been this pissed after a Packer game since the Seahawk debacle.
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That is easily the stupidest football play I’ve seen since Brandon Bostick.
Where is the coaching?
The very last thing Ty has to be told before going on the field is “do not run it out of the end zone, period”.
Of course he shouldn’t need to be told. But obviously he did need it.
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Never understood McCarthy’s love for the guy. Very average (at best) runner, receiver, blocker, and KO returner.
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One offensive holding penalty. Zero defensive pass penalties. Fun game to watch until the end.
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Happy if Montgomery doesn’t get on the plane. Hasn’t done much for a long time, now this.
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Happy if Montgomery doesn’t get on the plane. Hasn’t done much for a long time, now this.
Special teams coach should be fired. Many mistakes on special teams today, and the last one lost the game.
Any special teams coach needs to pull their returners aside there and tell them if the ball goes into the end zone do not under any circumstance return it.
I knew that the moment the rams scored and there was 2:05 left on the clock. Saves you the 2-minute warning and avoids any risks of a fumble.
Montgomery should have known better, but the special teams coach should have made sure.
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Special teams coach should be fired. Many mistakes on special teams today, and the last one lost the game.
Any special teams coach needs to pull their returners aside there and tell them if the ball goes into the end zone do not under any circumstance return it.
I knew that the moment the rams scored and there was 2:05 left on the clock. Saves you the 2-minute warning and avoids any risks of a fumble.
Montgomery should have known better, but the special teams coach should have made sure.
Ron Zook. Need I say more?
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Ron Zook. Need I say more?
Wait is that seriously the Packers special teams coach :o
Oh man, then that comes as absolutely no surprise.
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If the Packers can simply put a team away Ty never needs to return a kickoff. Up 1, inside 6 minutes, Rams with 1 TO. You can’t go 3 and out and give the ball to the Rams needing 5 yards for a FG.
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Ya can put cement loafers on da punter too, hey?
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This is the first time in my life that I can remember where the Packers are both the worst and least fun to watch major professional sports team in Wisconsin, without an injury to a major piece (so basically Rodgers) “aiding” that.
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This is the first time in my life that I can remember where the Packers are both the worst and least fun to watch major professional sports team in Wisconsin, without an injury to a major piece (so basically Rodgers) “aiding” that.
The current best/most interesting sports rankings in Wisconsin look like this right now:
Brewers
Bucks
Marquette
Packers
Badger football
Badger hoops
I can’t complain too much.
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Good try today, packers. Rams are tough. And, hey, you guys aren't in last place in the division!
SKOL VIKINGS! King Thielen!
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This is the first time in my life that I can remember where the Packers are both the worst and least fun to watch major professional sports team in Wisconsin, without an injury to a major piece (so basically Rodgers) “aiding” that.
Looking forward to the Buck Raptors match-up tomorrow. I hope it's on TV down here.
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I had a long drive today from southern MO to back home and listened to a bunch of different broadcasts on SiriusXM. I knew, or maybe thought I knew, that local radio NFL broadcasts were all homer calls, but didn't realize how meatball like it was until today. The broadcasters are 98% of the time playing to the local market, the remaining 2% of people probably like me listening on satellite radio, but the broadcasts are rough on the ears, between the homering effect and how much ads are squeezed in. I completely get making ad revenue, but everything on every local broadcast is not just sponsored, but amazing how it's sponsored. This is somewhat made up, but on the Eagles broadcast, it was basically "There's a player for the Jags down, this injury timeout brought to you by Johnson & Johnson, as they tend to the injured Jag, the referee will look over whether Wentz fumbled...no review needed when you visit Geno's, visit any of their 30 locations in the tri-state area...we're going to go to break, this is Eagles football brought to you by Allstate, and you're listening to Eagle football on the PNC radio network".
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Thinking the Pack go to 3-4-1 and win the Division at 9-6-1. Maybe win 1 Playoff game.
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I think the fact that Brady is the leader is problematic for his legacy (personally). There is zero doubt he has been behind the best offensive line in the NFL for almost his entire career. He has had the best coach in the game. Had some of the best weapons on offense, and at times a dominating defense.
Why the hell is that team having to make so many 4th quarter comebacks.
So you think that when Brady hangs 'em up, the blemish on his resume was that he led too many winning TD drives? Okey dokey then. That opinion will be lonelier than the Maytag repairman.
Michael Jordan really wasn't all that good, either. He had to make too many game-winning shots.
In other football news ...
Rough way for the Pack to lose; I thought for sure they would win on a FG (or at least get a good FG attempt) if Rodgers had gotten a chance, and I am no Packer backer.
Solid effort by the Vikings. I think the Saints just scored again. Or was that the Bills scoring again on them?
Agree with Dish about local broadcasters. I cannot listen to any of them -- and that includes the Panthers' broadcasters.
Outstanding performance by my boyz. Ravens came into the game as the NFL sack leaders and they never got to Cam once. He had a great game, as did the Panthers D.
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So you think that when Brady hangs 'em up, the blemish on his resume was that he led too many winning TD drives? Okey dokey then. That opinion will be lonelier than the Maytag repairman.
You missed my point, likely because of poor wording.
My point was that people highlighting that as the evidence for him being the GOAT, is a poor choice of his stats.
He has plenty of other stats to highlight.
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Solid day for the Bears. Another likely win next week against Buffalo with a home game against Detroit following that. Keep Mack out against next week unless he's 100%.
Too bad they blew the Miami game.
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You missed my point, likely because of poor wording.
My point was that people highlighting that as the evidence for him being the GOAT, is a poor choice of his stats.
He has plenty of other stats to highlight.
Well, OK.
I only "highlighted" it in my previous comment because the subject of game-winning drives was what we were discussing.
I'd say Brady's legacy starts at the 5 championships and 8 total trips to the Super Bowl. The yards, touchdowns, game-winning drives, etc, line up beautifully after that.
It is silly for anybody to have to defend Tom Brady's legacy. The results speak quite nicely for themselves.
I'd hope that fans of Rodgers, Marino, Elway, etc, would at least be honest and say that if the situation were reversed - if their guy had the 5 SB titles and Brady had, Rodgers' or Marino's record - they'd be arguing "Say what you want ... my guy has won 5 Super Bowls."
I mean, it was wades who immediately brought up Rodgers' 1 SB as a reason a fan should rather have Rodgers over Newton as his team's QB: “My guy” won it in 2011. I’ll wait on “yours.”
But Brady's 5 SBs don't give him the advantage over Rodgers in any GOAT discussion? Interesting.
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So Montgomery was told to take a knee...and he didn't do so.
Cut him today. He's not all that good anyway. Symbolic of Thompson's inability to draft toward the end of his career.
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So Montgomery was told to take a knee...and he didn't do so.
Cut him today. He's not all that good anyway. Symbolic of Thompson's inability to draft toward the end of his career.
Seriously? It's confirmed he got that direct instruction from coaches before taking the field. If true (and I have no reason to doubt), he should have been left in LA unless that's somehow against the CBA.
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Seriously?
Yes.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25112894/ty-montgomery-fumble-halts-green-bay-packers-final-shot-win-vs-los-angeles-rams
Now look, I get that you should always allow players to seize opportunities as they come forward, but you have to understand the situation better than this guy did.
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Seriously? It's confirmed he got that direct instruction from coaches before taking the field. If true (and I have no reason to doubt), he should have been left in LA unless that's somehow against the CBA.
Yes, at least a dozen players/coaches confirmed that was the instruction as well as one coach who was quoted as saying that Montgomery had been removed for some reason the previous drive and threw a hissyfit so this was him saying "I'm gonna do me".
Even if he doesn't fumble, it was galatically stupid because you get the ball at the 25 with 205 left if you kneel meaning you can do anything you want with the first play because you've got the 2 minute warning.
No way to prove it, but if Montgomery kneels the ball, the Packers win that game. Only needed a field goal and 2:05 and one TO is an eternity for Rodgers with the whole playbook available(including Aaron Jones).
Dude should have been left in LA. Crosby you stand-by because he's proven himself, Montgomery doesn't give you anything you have to have on the roster.
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Yes.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25112894/ty-montgomery-fumble-halts-green-bay-packers-final-shot-win-vs-los-angeles-rams
Now look, I get that you should always allow players to seize opportunities as they come forward, but you have to understand the situation better than this guy did.
Yep. Watched the clips. Both Rodgers and Mac appropriately threw him under the bus. Gone today (or damn well should be).
In the immediacy before the kickoff, I was totally convinced the kicker would try to kick it down to the 5 year line. I'm just a dumb fan but I understood the situation exactly. Packers goal was to get the ball at the 25 with one free play before the 2 minute warning.
Frankly if Gutekunst doesn't dump him he'll lose respect of the team. Also, I'd trade lazy Clinton-Dix for whatever they can get. I saw enough during the last game last season against Detroit.
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Yes, at least a dozen players/coaches confirmed that was the instruction as well as one coach who was quoted as saying that Montgomery had been removed for some reason the previous drive and threw a hissyfit so this was him saying "I'm gonna do me".
Even if he doesn't fumble, it was galatically stupid because you get the ball at the 25 with 205 left if you kneel meaning you can do anything you want with the first play because you've got the 2 minute warning.
No way to prove it, but if Montgomery kneels the ball, the Packers win that game. Only needed a field goal and 2:05 and one TO is an eternity for Rodgers with the whole playbook available(including Aaron Jones).
Dude should have been left in LA. Crosby you stand-by because he's proven himself, Montgomery doesn't give you anything you have to have on the roster.
Interesting stuff.
The ESPN article is just fuzzy enough - with McCarthy saying both that Montgomery was supposed to take a knee, "but you also trust your players -- tough decisions, close decisions -- and like I said, I think Ty was just trying to make a play."
But if it was unquestionably the instruction and McCarthy was just being kind in the immediate post-game interview situation, then you simply can't keep this guy on the team.
We do need to remember that the Packers were still behind, and the Rams have a pretty good defense. As great as Rodgers is, he doesn't always lead the winning drive. I mean, the drive against the Bears never happens if the DB makes as routine an interception as there ever has been. Also, Crosby has been known to miss a kick. Nevertheless, had to be terribly disappointing for the Packers and their fans.
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Yes, at least a dozen players/coaches confirmed that was the instruction as well as one coach who was quoted as saying that Montgomery had been removed for some reason the previous drive and threw a hissyfit so this was him saying "I'm gonna do me".
Even if he doesn't fumble, it was galatically stupid because you get the ball at the 25 with 205 left if you kneel meaning you can do anything you want with the first play because you've got the 2 minute warning.
No way to prove it, but if Montgomery kneels the ball, the Packers win that game. Only needed a field goal and 2:05 and one TO is an eternity for Rodgers with the whole playbook available(including Aaron Jones).
Dude should have been left in LA. Crosby you stand-by because he's proven himself, Montgomery doesn't give you anything you have to have on the roster.
Exactly. I have zero problem with a guy having a bad day like Mason did. I'm not even critical of the fumble. Crap happens.
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This is a lot less fuzzy than the ESPN piece- http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000980254/article/rodgers-doesnt-get-chance-at-hollywood-ending
"Aaron was hot," said one Packers coach. "And he had a right to be. He yelled, 'Take a f------ knee!' He was very, very mad."
In the eyes of many of Rodgers' teammates, his ire was justifiable. According to more than a half-dozen Packers players and coaches who witnessed it, Montgomery had thrown a tantrum of his own on Green Bay's previous offensive series, becoming noticeably enraged on the sideline after being removed from the game. At least one player believed there was carryover from that incident to Montgomery's decision to disregard his coaches' instruction and return the kickoff.
"They took him out (the previous drive) for a play and he slammed his helmet and threw a fit," one Packers player said. "Then (before the kickoff) they told him to take a knee, and he ran it out anyway. You know what that was? That was him saying, 'I'm gonna do me.' It's a f----- joke.
"I mean, what the f--- are you doing? We've got Aaron Rodgers, the best I've ever seen, and you're gonna take that risk? I mean, it's '12'! All you gotta do is give him the ball, and you know what's gonna happen."
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Interesting stuff.
The ESPN article is just fuzzy enough - with McCarthy saying both that Montgomery was supposed to take a knee, "but you also trust your players -- tough decisions, close decisions -- and like I said, I think Ty was just trying to make a play."
But if it was unquestionably the instruction and McCarthy was just being kind in the immediate post-game interview situation, then you simply can't keep this guy on the team.
We do need to remember that the Packers were still behind, and the Rams have a pretty good defense. As great as Rodgers is, he doesn't always lead the winning drive. I mean, the drive against the Bears never happens if the DB makes as routine an interception as there ever has been. Also, Crosby has been known to miss a kick. Nevertheless, had to be terribly disappointing for the Packers and their fans.
I think that Mac appropriately saying 'I have a boss and he makes these decisions.' (Even though Guty really isn't his boss but you get my meaning.)
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This is a lot less fuzzy than the ESPN piece- http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000980254/article/rodgers-doesnt-get-chance-at-hollywood-ending
"Aaron was hot," said one Packers coach. "And he had a right to be. He yelled, 'Take a f------ knee!' He was very, very mad."
In the eyes of many of Rodgers' teammates, his ire was justifiable. According to more than a half-dozen Packers players and coaches who witnessed it, Montgomery had thrown a tantrum of his own on Green Bay's previous offensive series, becoming noticeably enraged on the sideline after being removed from the game. At least one player believed there was carryover from that incident to Montgomery's decision to disregard his coaches' instruction and return the kickoff.
"They took him out (the previous drive) for a play and he slammed his helmet and threw a fit," one Packers player said. "Then (before the kickoff) they told him to take a knee, and he ran it out anyway. You know what that was? That was him saying, 'I'm gonna do me.' It's a f----- joke.
"I mean, what the f--- are you doing? We've got Aaron Rodgers, the best I've ever seen, and you're gonna take that risk? I mean, it's '12'! All you gotta do is give him the ball, and you know what's gonna happen."
All you gotta do is give him the ball, and you know what's gonna happen.
Donald going through the line untouched for a sack? The ball thrown right to the DB, who unlike the Bear won't drop it?
Just funnin' ... I too couldn't believe Montgomery didn't take a knee, and I also thought - no, I totally expected - Rodgers to win the game for the Pack.
Thanks for the update with all the interesting stuff in your comment.
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This is a lot less fuzzy than the ESPN piece- http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000980254/article/rodgers-doesnt-get-chance-at-hollywood-ending
"Aaron was hot," said one Packers coach. "And he had a right to be. He yelled, 'Take a f------ knee!' He was very, very mad."
In the eyes of many of Rodgers' teammates, his ire was justifiable. According to more than a half-dozen Packers players and coaches who witnessed it, Montgomery had thrown a tantrum of his own on Green Bay's previous offensive series, becoming noticeably enraged on the sideline after being removed from the game. At least one player believed there was carryover from that incident to Montgomery's decision to disregard his coaches' instruction and return the kickoff.
"They took him out (the previous drive) for a play and he slammed his helmet and threw a fit," one Packers player said. "Then (before the kickoff) they told him to take a knee, and he ran it out anyway. You know what that was? That was him saying, 'I'm gonna do me.' It's a f----- joke.
"I mean, what the f--- are you doing? We've got Aaron Rodgers, the best I've ever seen, and you're gonna take that risk? I mean, it's '12'! All you gotta do is give him the ball, and you know what's gonna happen."
ARodg doesn't get personnel veto power but on this it should be close. It is unacceptable not to give him a chance and 'do me'.
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Holy crap. It's worse. Monty was told to 'take a knee' for the kickoff by the coaches, ran onto the field anyway, and subverted his team according to various players interviewed by jsonline.
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Holy crap. It's worse. Monty was told to 'take a knee' for the kickoff by the coaches, ran onto the field anyway, and subverted his team according to various players interviewed by jsonline.
He gone.
Shame, I much preferred when Mac played Montgomery over Aaron Jones.
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He gone.
Shame, I much preferred when Mac played Montgomery over Aaron Jones.
Aaron Jones may be one of the top backs in the league, but MM doesn't seem to like running the ball.
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There was a quip in the Packers twitter feed that Montgomery was cut and Kaepernick signed "because at least he knows how to take a knee".
Clarification for snowflake Jaybee: that is a joke, not a political statement. You can refrain from alerting.
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There was a quip in the Packers twitter feed that Montgomery was cut and Kaepernick signed "because at least he knows how to take a knee".
That's really funny.
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Aaron Jones may be one of the top backs in the league, but MM doesn't seem to like running the ball.
but but but but....pass protection.....mumble mumble mumble....pass blocking........reasons
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Clarification for snowflake Jaybee: that is a joke, not a political statement. You can refrain from alerting.
Name calling again? Heard you know how to take a knee, heyna??
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Back to your homophobic kick, eh Snowy?
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I’m not sure why Montgomery is still currently on the team.
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Dorsey and Haslam not playing around. Hue Jackson and Todd Haley gone. I liked the Jackson hire a lot but his time in charge was a clown show. Haley's offense was a stagnant joke the last few weeks.
My best friend is a big Browns fan. He's ecstatic. Sent me a link to a BR article basically saying this move had to be made to save Mayfield's development which I couldn't agree with more. They have some nice pieces, he seems to have potential, don't let terrible coaching and management ruin that. Dorsey is smarter than that.
Hot rumor I saw this morning, that had been mentioned weeks ago. Urban Meyer to GB, McCarthey reunited with Dorsey in Cleveland, and Bob Stoops coming back home to Ohio to take over in Columbus. Crazier things have happened.
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Dorsey and Haslam not playing around. Hue Jackson and Todd Haley gone. I liked the Jackson hire a lot but his time in charge was a clown show. Haley's offense was a stagnant joke the last few weeks.
My best friend is a big Browns fan. He's ecstatic. Sent me a link to a BR article basically saying this move had to be made to save Mayfield's development which I couldn't agree with more. They have some nice pieces, he seems to have potential, don't let terrible coaching and management ruin that. Dorsey is smarter than that.
Hot rumor I saw this morning, that had been mentioned weeks ago. Urban Meyer to GB, McCarthey reunited with Dorsey in Cleveland, and Bob Stoops coming back home to Ohio to take over in Columbus. Crazier things have happened.
McCarthy to Cleveland makes a ton of sense. Familiar with Dorsey and a young QB to develop.
But I want nothing to do with Urban Meyer.
In addition to being a total jag bag, I don't think he translates to the NFL.
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I think I'd take Lincoln Riley if I'm looking for a college coach to make the jump to the NFL.
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There is a greater chance that the Packers hire Rick Pitino than hire Urban Meyer.
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Dorsey and Haslam not playing around. Hue Jackson and Todd Haley gone. I liked the Jackson hire a lot but his time in charge was a clown show. Haley's offense was a stagnant joke the last few weeks.
My best friend is a big Browns fan. He's ecstatic. Sent me a link to a BR article basically saying this move had to be made to save Mayfield's development which I couldn't agree with more. They have some nice pieces, he seems to have potential, don't let terrible coaching and management ruin that. Dorsey is smarter than that.
Hot rumor I saw this morning, that had been mentioned weeks ago. Urban Meyer to GB, McCarthey reunited with Dorsey in Cleveland, and Bob Stoops coming back home to Ohio to take over in Columbus. Crazier things have happened.
Is your source Big Cat from PMT?
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Dorsey and Haslam not playing around. Hue Jackson and Todd Haley gone. I liked the Jackson hire a lot but his time in charge was a clown show. Haley's offense was a stagnant joke the last few weeks.
My best friend is a big Browns fan. He's ecstatic. Sent me a link to a BR article basically saying this move had to be made to save Mayfield's development which I couldn't agree with more. They have some nice pieces, he seems to have potential, don't let terrible coaching and management ruin that. Dorsey is smarter than that.
Hot rumor I saw this morning, that had been mentioned weeks ago. Urban Meyer to GB, McCarthey reunited with Dorsey in Cleveland, and Bob Stoops coming back home to Ohio to take over in Columbus. Crazier things have happened.
Would Urban Meyer even remember he coached for the Packers?
I highly doubt said rumor but you want to get me to quit the Packers and the NFL cold turkey, hiring Urbz will do it
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Is your source Big Cat from PMT?
Elevating Bob Wiley to HC.
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Heard you know how to take a knee, heyna??
Hypocrite.
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Lions all in last week, all out this week. Golden Tate to Philly for a 3rd round pick.
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Montgomery traded to the Ravens for some chump change.
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Montgomery traded to the Ravens
7th rounder coming back. Good riddance.
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Ha Ha to Washington.
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Packer fire sale. So what's the plan here?
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Ha Ha is in the last year of his contract and is just above a replacement level player. He wasn't in their future plans.
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Ha Ha is in the last year of his contract and is just above a replacement level player. He wasn't in their future plans.
Best effen name in recent NFL history, though.
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Packer fire sale. So what's the plan here?
You mean the lazy arse Safety that couldn't be bothered to make a tackle in week 17 last year? (See my post a page or so back.)
Two excellent additions by subtraction.
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Rams gave up quite a lot for what is most likely a half season/postseason rental on Fowler.
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Packer fire sale. So what's the plan here?
They got something for two guys who don't contribute much and wouldn't be around next year.
I think they were smart moves - not a fire sale.
It does point out Ted's mistake letting Hyde leave, though. Micah is twice the safety Dix will ever be.
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They got something for two guys who don't contribute much and wouldn't be around next year.
I think they were smart moves - not a fire sale.
It does point out Ted's mistake letting Hyde leave, though. Micah is twice the safety Dix will ever be.
Ha Ha was really good in his 2nd year. Then his brain went the Cledius Hunt route.
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Best effen name in recent NFL history, though.
Which part is your favorite, heyloooo?
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FWIW, Clinton-Dix is the fourth ranked safety on PFF. Can't say I've watched him play enough to comment intelligently, but most of the league evidently values him differently than Packers fans.
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FWIW, Clinton-Dix is the fourth ranked safety on PFF. Can't say I've watched him play enough to comment intelligently, but most of the league evidently values him differently than Packers fans.
Also, if we don't think the drop off is that big, makes sense to capitalize now if there's no way you're making him a top 5 paid safety this offseason
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FWIW, Clinton-Dix is the fourth ranked safety on PFF. Can't say I've watched him play enough to comment intelligently, but most of the league evidently values him differently than Packers fans.
Last year, PFF had Adrian Amos as 1st team All-Pro safety in the NFL.
'Nuff said.
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Which part is your favorite, heyloooo?
The part that the ironically named BJ is homophobic about.
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FWIW, Clinton-Dix is the fourth ranked safety on PFF. Can't say I've watched him play enough to comment intelligently, but most of the league evidently values him differently than Packers fans.
What does a fantasy football site have to do with how the league judges him?
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What does a fantasy football site have to do with how the league judges him?
I don't know if I'd classify Pro Football Focus as a fantasy site. There's a lot of in-depth analysis there, even though sometimes their grades can be a little suspect.
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The part that the ironically named BJ is homophobic about.
Whoa, whoa, whoa!! You mean it's ironic that the elderly man that can't have a mature relationship with a woman, and who spends an enormous amount of time watching and evaluating young fit men, is homophobic?
Again....it doesn't take a trained psychologist to figure out the situation. Just hope he figures it out, overcomes his insecurities, and is able to be happy.
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There are going to be a lot of dead people on the Raiders roster next year:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25146513/jon-gruden-players-dying-play-oakland-raiders (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25146513/jon-gruden-players-dying-play-oakland-raiders)
Also feels like he just admitted to widespread tampering.
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There are going to be a lot of dead people on the Raiders roster next year:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25146513/jon-gruden-players-dying-play-oakland-raiders (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25146513/jon-gruden-players-dying-play-oakland-raiders)
Also feels like he just admitted to widespread tampering.
Or widespread bullsh*t
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Or widespread bullsh*t
Good point, if there's one thing 2016-present has taught us, it's that words don't have consequences
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Good point, if there's one thing 2016-present has taught us, it's that words don't have consequences
https://twitter.com/CoachBillick/status/1057725748365197317
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Good point, if there's one thing 2016-present has taught us, it's that words don't have consequences
Alternative facts 24/7.
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There are going to be a lot of dead people on the Raiders roster next year:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25146513/jon-gruden-players-dying-play-oakland-raiders (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25146513/jon-gruden-players-dying-play-oakland-raiders)
Also feels like he just admitted to widespread tampering.
Gruden is once again confusing his personal cell phone with the Corona hotline.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa!! You mean it's ironic that the elderly man that can't have a mature relationship with a woman, and who spends an enormous amount of time watching and evaluating young fit men, is homophobic?
Again....it doesn't take a trained psychologist to figure out the situation. Just hope he figures it out, overcomes his insecurities, and is able to be happy.
Always interesting to see how hypocritical one can be (not to mention the LIES).
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https://twitter.com/CoachBillick/status/1057725748365197317
My god that twitter avi, Billick aged QUICK.
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Always interesting to see how hypocritical one can be (not to mention the LIES).
Not sure what exactly is 'hypocritical'. Unless you are comparing my mocking you to your hatred of women and homosexuals. If so......sure.?.?.
One thing social media has taught the world over the last 3 years is that if someone capitalizes 'lies' or 'fake' it 100% means they are exactly what they say they are not.
PM me if you want to discuss this further - no need to tax the mods more than their 6 figure income would dictate.
Unless, of course, you can't restrain from making hateful statements.
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Peterman staying on average of 1 INT per 8 pass attempts.
Without a doubt, the worst starting QB in NFL history. What is really amazing is that they keep throwing him out there.
This is an NFL team that is making no attempt, not only to win a game, but making no attempt at even TRYING to win a game.
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The Bills will be the poster boy for Kaeps collusion case. Only way it gets easier is if Trump had purchased the Bills instead of Pegula
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Death, Taxes, Ha-Ha getting torched by Julio
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I don’t know how the Bucs beat the Saints in New Orleans.
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Pats come out and put on a clinic first drive. Pack have 3rd and 15 at the 17 (aka in easy FG range even if you take a sack). Big Mac decides to throw the ball behind the line of scrimmage. Way to set the tone Big guy. Kicking field goals tonight is definitely going to win this game.
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Pats come out and put on a clinic first drive. Pack have 3rd and 15 at the 17 (aka in easy FG range even if you take a sack). Big Mac decides to throw the ball behind the line of scrimmage. Way to set the tone Big guy. Kicking field goals tonight is definitely going to win this game.
It was even worse than that. It was 3rd and goal. No way to get a touchdown on that play. Pure concession of possible points. What a dips hit.
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Brady just makin' total fools outta Pack's secondairy, aina?
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Brady just makin' total fools outta Pack's secondairy, aina?
He's actually having a below average game. Their running game is hurting the Pack far more than Brady.
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One more reason Bellichek is the best.
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One more reason Bellichek is the best.
I really hate him, but this is absolutely true. No better coach in the NFL, maybe the best of all time.
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(A slowed) Rodgers roll out on 3rd down with less than a minute left in the half? What in the world?
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(A slowed) Rodgers roll out on 3rd down with less than a minute left in the half? What in the world?
It’s truly embarrassing.
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(A slowed) Rodgers roll out on 3rd down with less than a minute left in the half? What in the world?
That had to be a Rodgers call. I have a tough time complaining about McCarthy too much since I think Rodgers has a lot of freedom at the line.
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Being a coach for the Pack has to be incredible. Maybe the best job security I’ve ever seen from a high level sports team. Zook will probably have a raise waiting for him tomorrow.
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Through 3 quarters, I’ve been extremely impressed with the Pack tonight. I think New England has gotten too conservative on offense, but the Pack have almost no one left on the sidelines to play defense, and they’re more than hanging tough.
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One coach has imagination.
One coach is generic.
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One coach has imagination.
One coach is generic.
What, you don’t find play action fake naked bootlegs with a hobbled QB to be imaginative?
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As usual, a short handed packers defense can't get a stop when it counts. Another year of Aaron Rodgers wasted. McCarthy needs to go.
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As usual, a short handed packers defense can't get a stop when it counts. Another year of Aaron Rodgers wasted. McCarthy needs needed to go after the Seattle NFC Title game.
FIFY.
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Go Bears.
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I don’t know how the Bucs beat the Saints in New Orleans.
As I sat with Mrs. 82 at today's Panthers-Bucs game, gleefully watching our lads take a 35-7 lead in a practically perfect first half of football, I said the same thing.
But as I watched the Bucs move the ball nicely in the second half, I do see that they have a lot of offensive weapons. The score of that Bucs-Saints game was like 200-199. The Saints aren't a very good defensive team, and they probably didn't take the Bucs too seriously.
Looking forward to the 2 Panthers-Saints games in December. Although I really like the way the Panthers' offense is developing -- a lot of good, young skill players -- I do think the Saints are a better offensive team. But I think the Panthers are a much better defensive team, and I'm hoping that makes a difference.
Of course, my lads have a bunch of tough games before those, starting Thursday at Pittsburgh.
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Everyone likes to rag on Mac and much of it is fair. But what's most glaring is the poor work done by Thompson in his later years. The Packers just don't currently have the horses to compete.
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There is a changing of the guard beginning to happen in the NFC North. The Packers have dominated for so long but they may be only the third best team in the division. The NFC North is the dog poo of the NFL for this year. Heck, when the Bear is leading the division, you know the division has problems!
Minnesota is Minnesota. Give that dog a bone and it will find a way to choke on it. The Vikings may be the class of the division but they won't last past the first round of the playoffs, if they even last that long! Who knows but the last team to bet money on is Minnesota.
The Bears are up-and-comers. They are not "there" yet, but the addition of Mack, new wide receivers and the hopeful maturation of Mitch Trubisky (well, Bear fans can hope) breathes new life into a fan base that has been in hibernation since the days of Lovie Smith. Bear fans stopped going to Soldier Field in droves (that's something you did not see on television) during the last days of the "Fox" and Management had to do something or Chicago was headed toward being the LA of the East. This is a team that finds a way to disappoint, no matter what, so we shall see.
The Packers are reminicient of the last days of Brett Favre. A football team in decline. If Clay Matthews is not in his last year, someone in the front office needs to wake up. The defense is its usual mediocre and the offense, while good, is hardly worthy of Aaron Rodgers' talents. The Montgomery incident at Los Angeles is indicative of bad coaching and a sign that Mike McCarthy needs to go. The Packers used to find a way to win the "big ones" and owned the Bears. There have been no happy endings on the "Big Ones" this year and it took a dropped interception by Kyle Fuller for the Packers to squeak by the Bears. Do not be surprised if the Packers end up with a losing record. Quite a disappointment for a team celebrating its 100th anniversary and which started the season with (delusional) eyes on the Super Bowl.
Detroit is a Federal Disaster Area. The team is terrible and has no chemistry. One week they beat the Packers and the next week they lose to the Little Sisters of the Poor. They trade Golden Tate in the NFL's version of, "Let's see how we can tank a team NBA style." All I can think of here is, "In the Village, the quiet village, the Lion sleeps tonight...."
None of these teams makes it past Los Angeles or New Orleans. The question is whether is spread would be in double digits.
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Everyone likes to rag on Mac and much of it is fair. But what's most glaring is the poor work done by Thompson in his later years. The Packers just don't currently have the horses to compete.
Not sure about that at all. They should’ve had a 2 minute drive to get a field goal to win the game at the LAR and they had the ball in the red zone in a 4th quarter tie last night at NE. Those are 2 road games against 2 of maybe the 3 favorite teams to make it to the SB. That seems like competing to me, and to be honest it’s with Aaron not being his normal all time great self, in my opinion.
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Not sure about that at all. They should’ve had a 2 minute drive to get a field goal to win the game at the LAR and they had the ball in the red zone in a 4th quarter tie last night at NE. Those are 2 road games against 2 of maybe the 3 favorite teams to make it to the SB. That seems like competing to me, and to be honest it’s with Aaron not being his normal all time great self, in my opinion.
While I agree that the Packers were able to 'hang on' with two really good teams,there's zero indication that this team has talent much beyond a .500 record. And while ARodg hasn't been entirely himself, he's still one of the very best players in the league at the most important position. Replace him with an average guy and the Packers are a 6-10 team. I agree with what dgies said. Feels like the end of Favre rebuild. The good news is that Guty seems to have started that process already. The rookie crop is very impressive.
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Everyone likes to rag on Mac and much of it is fair. But what's most glaring is the poor work done by Thompson in his later years. The Packers just don't currently have the horses to compete.
While I do think it is obvious that there has been a talent drop off, I can blame McCarthy for plenty. Simplifying the offense this year has been terrible. It is a bland offense, stuck in a year 2000 version of the West Coast Offense. I look and see what some teams are doing out there and the Packers have none of that.
But yeah, there have been personnel problems. The fact that they are still relying on Randall Cobb and Clay Matthews to be productive starters is part of the problem.
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There is a changing of the guard beginning to happen in the NFC North. The Packers have dominated for so long but they may be only the third best team in the division. The NFC North is the dog poo of the NFL for this year. Heck, when the Bear is leading the division, you know the division has problems!
The Packers may finish last in the division unless the Lions fall apart.
Of there three wins, one was a Rodgers' miracle comeback v. the Bears, one of was a slightly less than miracle against the Niners and one was against the Bills. They are 0-4 on the road. They have some soft teams left on their schedule (Cardinals, Jets) but they have plenty of teams that can beat them (Dolphins, Seahawks) and a couple who they aren't going to beat (Vikings, Bears).
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The Packers may finish last in the division unless the Lions fall apart.
Of there three wins, one was a Rodgers' miracle comeback v. the Bears, one of was a slightly less than miracle against the Niners and one was against the Bills. They are 0-4 on the road. They have some soft teams left on their schedule (Cardinals, Jets) but they have plenty of teams that can beat them (Dolphins, Seahawks) and a couple who they aren't going to beat (Vikings, Bears).
Brother Sultan of Southwest Wisconsin, I hear you. The Packers are really, really problematic and there's no end in sight. I'll concede the skill positions on offense are pretty good, but I am less confident in the line and the defense, is, well, porous. Question is, as you correctly point out, whether this team is in such disarray that, to quote a Green Bay favorite, Mike Ditka, "we're not going to win another game this year."
Ditka said that toward the end of his tenure when the Bears were in complete turmoil.
The Lions are anyone's guess as to how bad/good they really are. Buffalo they aint and they did beat the Packers. Question is whether beating the Patriots and Packers is their season "high" or season "only." Team is bad, bad, bad, way bad.
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To be honest, I have also seen some things out of Rodgers that makes me wonder as well. Accuracy and arm strength are not what they were, but I don't know how much of that is due to the knee or due to breakdowns in his offensive line. I think the team is a mess right now.
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To be honest, I have also seen some things out of Rodgers that makes me wonder as well. Accuracy and arm strength are not what they were, but I don't know how much of that is due to the knee or due to breakdowns in his offensive line. I think the team is a mess right now.
I know hindsight is always 20/20, but what sense did it make to turn over the entire staff in the offseason, except for McCarthy? To basically put McCarthy on an island and then trot him back out there with new coordinators, a new GM, and a relationship with the face of the franchise that has been deteriorating for years was doomed from the word go. Now when McCarthy is gone next year, do you start all over again and have the new coach bring in an entire new staff? Its like there is no plan.
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I know hindsight is always 20/20, but what sense did it make to turn over the entire staff in the offseason, except for McCarthy? To basically put McCarthy on an island and then trot him back out there with new coordinators, a new GM, and a relationship with the face of the franchise that has been deteriorating for years was doomed from the word go. Now when McCarthy is gone next year, do you start all over again and have the new coach bring in an entire new staff? Its like there is no plan.
I think the problem is Mark Murphy not setting out clear lines of authority and responsibility. I'm not sure Gutekunst has the ability to fire the coach - but he should.
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Defense is improving and has some good young talent. The new DC knows what he's doing. We desperately need a big pass rusher. Look for Gutes to package our two 1st rounders for a top 5 type player at edge rusher.
Offense has pieces but they're young. Jones is the future at RB. The Trio of Adams-MVS-StBrown could be really really good, with Cobb and Graham as veterans (a la Donald Driver in the Super Bowl year). We need to improve the line and the scheme to make those talented players worth something. I would love to see us snag an offensively minded HC from the college ranks (Lincoln Riley, Chris Peterson, etc) to change up the offense and really utilize those weapons.
I have no illusions of competing for a Super Bowl this year. It's not going to happen. But the last two weeks showed that we can play with the best and just need a little more experience to put us over the top. A young and talented team around Aaron Rodgers can compete with anyone.
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Packers have one all-time great, a few really good players, a few decent players and a lot of mediocrity and/or wounded. And it's certainly hard to defend their coaching staff.
It was a helluva run, but they definitely need to retool, and they probably have to start with McCarthy. And as most know, I'm not a knee-jerk, "throw out the coach this instant" kind of guy.
As Phil Jackson said, every coach has only so many years before it's best for both sides to move on. There have been exceptions, of course, but by and large I agree with that.
Sad thing about retooling is that Rodgers' window is closing. Then again, teams can retool pretty quickly in the NFL, especially if they have a great QB. For example, the Saints were reeling just a couple years ago and their coach was on the hot seat. Of course, they held onto Payton through three very tumultuous 7-9 seasons and have come out the other side as one of the NFL's best teams.
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I'm not ready to start writing the Pack eulogy yet. I think this next three game stretch will define their season. I don't think the league did them any favors going Sunday night, late Sunday afternoon, then travel cross country for a Thursday nighter in Seattle.
The team in the NFC I wouldn't want to play right now is Carolina. I wish their game with the Steelers wasn't on Thursday night, as that game looks much better than the Sunday nighter. I can live without any more NFC East teams in prime time. The NFC South is very much up for grabs, especially with Panthers/Saints meeting twice in the last 3 weeks of the year.
I think in the NFC, the non division winner of Panthers/Saints will easily lock up the 5th seed. I think the 6th seed is between the non NFC North winners and the Falcons. The Falcons winning at Washington may loom large down the road, but I don't think the non NFC East winner will be enough to hang around. Washington had the benefit of being 5-1 in the conference before yesterday.
The Bears win big yesterday, but there wasn't much on offense that inspired confidence. Their next 3 games will make or break any wild card shot this season. Three straight divisional opponents, two of them at home.
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I'm not ready to start writing the Pack eulogy yet. I think this next three game stretch will define their season. I don't think the league did them any favors going Sunday night, late Sunday afternoon, then travel cross country for a Thursday nighter in Seattle.
The team in the NFC I wouldn't want to play right now is Carolina. I wish their game with the Steelers wasn't on Thursday night, as that game looks much better than the Sunday nighter. I can live without any more NFC East teams in prime time. The NFC South is very much up for grabs, especially with Panthers/Saints meeting twice in the last 3 weeks of the year.
I think in the NFC, the non division winner of Panthers/Saints will easily lock up the 5th seed. I think the 6th seed is between the non NFC North winners and the Falcons. The Falcons winning at Washington may loom large down the road, but I don't think the non NFC East winner will be enough to hang around. Washington had the benefit of being 5-1 in the conference before yesterday.
The Bears win big yesterday, but there wasn't much on offense that inspired confidence. Their next 3 games will make or break any wild card shot this season. Three straight divisional opponents, two of them at home.
I like to think you're right about the Panthers/Saints non winner locking up the 5th seed, but I will say that the Panthers have a very challenging 2nd-half schedule: at Pitt, at Det, Sea, at TB, at Cle, NO, Atl, at NO. I mean, even at Cle, at Det at at TB aren't gimmes if my lads aren't ready to play, and the others are plenty tough. In all, 5 of 8 on the road, including at Pit and at NO. They'll get a great chance to prove if they're as good as the last 9 quarters (starting with comeback vs Phil) appear to make them look.
Totally agree about the Thu night game. It sucks for both teams to have so little rest before having to play a formidable opponent. I hate Thu night games in general; very unfair to athletes the league claims to care about.
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the Panthers/Saints non winner
You mean the loser?
Do we have to move this to the Millenial thread?
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IMO, the Packers will beat the Dolphins, Falcons, Jets, Lions, Cardinals. Then probably win 1 of the remaining 3. Finish 9-6-1. Remaining schedule is pretty damn easy, especially the home schedule.
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IMO, the Packers will beat the Dolphins, Falcons, Jets, Lions, Cardinals. Then probably win 1 of the remaining 3. Finish 9-6-1. Remaining schedule is pretty damn easy, especially the home schedule.
Falcons are rolling right now so I wouldn't expect that win in comparison to the others.
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Falcons are rolling right now so I wouldn't expect that win in comparison to the others.
Yep that's definitely a tougher game. And the Packers could lose that one or some of the others I mentioned if they don't figure it out. I just think they are starting to play better and it'll be good enough to put a run together. They still aren't a very good team though.
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Yep that's definitely a tougher game. And the Packers could lose that one or some of the others I mentioned if they don't figure it out. I just think they are starting to play better and it'll be good enough to put a run together. They still aren't a very good team though.
They may or may not be a very good team. We still don't know.
They just had 2 games on the road against maybe the two best teams in the NFL and had a very good chance to win both until 4th quarter fumbles.
The Bears are way overrated. 191 total yards yesterday?
Their game against GB was only close because they used and abused Kizer. If Rodgers doesn't get hurt, the game isn't even close. If GB beats Miami and Seattle - as I think they will - the game in Minny is for the NFC title.
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The NFC North is the dog poo of the NFL for this year.
Brother, you're far too kind to the NFC East.
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They may or may not be a very good team. We still don't know.
They just had 2 games on the road against maybe the two best teams in the NFL and had a very good chance to win both until 4th quarter fumbles.
The Bears are way overrated. 191 total yards yesterday?
Their game against GB was only close because they used and abused Kizer. If Rodgers doesn't get hurt, the game isn't even close. If GB beats Miami and Seattle - as I think they will - the game in Minny is for the NFC title.
Not sure who is overrating the Bears but there's no reason not to think they're a wildcard contender. Buffalo has been horrendous defensively at home and it's not like the Bears needed to rack up yards yesterday. The 3 games they've lost have been by a combined 11 points.
You're way overrating the Packers.
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Not sure who is overrating the Bears but there's no reason not to think they're a wildcard contender. Buffalo has been horrendous defensively at home and it's not like the Bears needed to rack up yards yesterday. The 3 games they've lost have been by a combined 11 points.
You're way overrating the Packers.
Bears are a tough team to figure. Because while you can note that their three losses are by a combined 11 points, you also can note that their five wins have come against teams that are sitting a combined 14-28. Their best win is a seven-point home victory against a .500 Seahawks team that was without its best receiver and four starting defenders, including a pair of Pro Bowl linebackers.
Certainly room for optimism, but also hard to say if they're for real at this point.
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They may or may not be a very good team. We still don't know.
They just had 2 games on the road against maybe the two best teams in the NFL and had a very good chance to win both until 4th quarter fumbles.
The Bears are way overrated. 191 total yards yesterday?
Their game against GB was only close because they used and abused Kizer. If Rodgers doesn't get hurt, the game isn't even close. If GB beats Miami and Seattle - as I think they will - the game in Minny is for the NFC title.
Eh, the Bears offense was uninspired yesterday, but focusing on the yards is silly. They had multiple scoring possessions start well inside Buffalo territory. They didn’t need to do anything to beat Buffalo other than show up.
The Bears are 5th in DVOA through last week and that won’t go down since last week. I think they’re still a year away, but they by far have the easiest schedule left between them Green Bay and Minnesota. With the Pack/Vikes tie, the Bears control their own fate in the North.
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Bears-VIkings in Chicago Week 11 flexed to Sunday night.
Not great for the Bears who then have to play Thursday day against Detroit.
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They may or may not be a very good team. We still don't know.
They just had 2 games on the road against maybe the two best teams in the NFL and had a very good chance to win both until 4th quarter fumbles.
The Bears are way overrated. 191 total yards yesterday?
Their game against GB was only close because they used and abused Kizer. If Rodgers doesn't get hurt, the game isn't even close. If GB beats Miami and Seattle - as I think they will - the game in Minny is for the NFC title.
I'm a big Bears fan. They're going to be up and down throughout the season with one-and-done playoffs as their best scenario.
But to point out total offensive yards in 1 game as a measure of a team's success or talent is an awful take.
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Skol Vikings. We are the best.
Next two games we're on Sunday night.. bears and packers the beneficiaries of our greatness.
Loved seeing the defense finally play a great game. The number of sacks got to be ridiculous. Danielle Hunter is a monster. Love Everson being back. Super Bowl, homeboy.
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You mean the loser?
Do we have to move this to the Millenial thread?
I love it. Not sure why I said it like that. Reminds me of when Dick Jauron used to say that his players had a "less-good game."
Buffalo has been horrendous
Yep, the only ones the Bills can dominate are the Vikings. Well, "dominate" might not be fair. They only won by 804 points in Minnesota.
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“I’m excited for two NFC East prime time games next week!” - No One
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“I’m excited for two NFC East prime time games next week!” - No One
This will be the fifth week in a row that the Cowboys could be on my television set. Though I'm not sure what game should have been flexed to Sunday night. The best match-up of the week is on Thursday.
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Here's a stat I found interesting (and exciting for Panthers fans like me):
In the red zone, Cam Newton is 21-of-29 with 11 touchdown passes and zero interceptions, and has a league-best passer rating of 124.7. Also, 4 rushing TDs in the red zone.
Unfortunately, 3 of his RZ incompletions came in the closing minute of a winnable game at Washington. Otherwise, no complaints at all. He's pulled out a couple for my lads, too.
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Last 10 games under Huntley. 3-7
Last 10 games under Rodgers. 3-6-1
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6-13-1
Last twenty games unda Big Mike, aina?
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Last 10 games under Huntley. 3-7
Last 10 games under Rodgers. 3-6-1
? I assume you are referring to Brett Hundley. He started 9 games for the Packers last season. So he went 3-6. Finished the Vikings "Rodgers got injured" game, so do you place that on Hundley or Rodgers?
Rodgers is 3-6-1 in his last 10 starts, but that includes the injury game against the Vikings. To quibble, it's not fair to put that loss on a guy in the locker room. Does 4-5-1 feel better?
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? I assume you are referring to Brett Hundley. He started 9 games for the Packers last season. So he went 3-6. Finished the Vikings "Rodgers got injured" game, so do you place that on Hundley or Rodgers?
Rodgers is 3-6-1 in his last 10 starts, but that includes the injury game against the Vikings. To quibble, it's not fair to put that loss on a guy in the locker room. Does 4-5-1 feel better?
Yes Hundley, Huntley, Tomato, Potato. I didn't say anything about starting or finishing, but only games played in. Thought it was an interesting stat. Tells me the Packers have a lot of problems, regardless of who is the quarterback. GBP, in my view should have beaten the Rams, but also should have lost to the Bears and 49ers both at home this year.
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Here's a stat I found interesting (and exciting for Panthers fans like me):
In the red zone, Cam Newton is 21-of-29 with 11 touchdown passes and zero interceptions, and has a league-best passer rating of 124.7. Also, 4 rushing TDs in the red zone.
Unfortunately, 3 of his RZ incompletions came in the closing minute of a winnable game at Washington. Otherwise, no complaints at all. He's pulled out a couple for my lads, too.
Wow Mike. 8 Pittsburgh possessions, 7 TDs and a FG. They have their "walk ons" (Big Ben out) with 11+ minutes left. Your lads didn't show up tonight.
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Wow Mike. 8 Pittsburgh possessions, 7 TDs and a FG. They have their "walk ons" (Big Ben out) with 11+ minutes left. Your lads didn't show up tonight.
Yeah ... ouch.
Coulda been worse, though. Coulda lost at home to Buffalo by 800 points, like the Vikings did.
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Yeah ... ouch.
Coulda been worse, though. Coulda lost at home to Buffalo by 800 points, like the Vikings did.
Ouch.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/oh-no-someone-started-gofundme-get-nathan-peterman-retire-214920178.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/oh-no-someone-started-gofundme-get-nathan-peterman-retire-214920178.html)
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Yeah ... ouch.
Coulda been worse, though. Coulda lost at home to Buffalo by 800 points, like the Vikings did.
A - 31 > 21
2 - Vikings had a horrible game a month and a half ago so last nights game doesn't indicate any issues with the Panthers?
C - not saying the Vikings are winning it all but this is Heisenberg level whataboutism
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A - 31 > 21
2 - Vikings had a horrible game a month and a half ago so last nights game doesn't indicate any issues with the Panthers?
C - not saying the Vikings are winning it all but this is Heisenberg level whataboutism
Eh ... I just like making fun of the Vikings.
The Panthers looked wonderful on their opening possession and then played like total shyte the rest of the game. Offense, defense, coaching, everything sucked. The pass by Cam out of the end zone was his worst play of the year, and he owned it afterward.
It was one of those games that a bunch of things go wrong -- bang, bang, bang, bang -- and then it goes from a snowball rolling downhill to a massive avalanche. It happens.
Of course I have concerns about the Panthers after watching that shyteshow. The OL, made up mostly of nobodies taking over for injured players, had been one of the great stories for the team, protecting Cam and opening holes for the running game; but the Steelers killed our OL last night ... that's a concern. The defense not being able to even sniff Big Ben while leaving receivers wide open ... that's a concern. Plenty of other concerns, too.
But I've learned over the years to not to put too much emphasis on a lopsided win or loss. I remember one time the Bulls opened defense of a championship by getting annihilated at home on "ring night." I remember a few time Marquette got slaughtered during the buzz years and Scoop was Panic Town, but we went on to have fine seasons. It happens.
Plus, the Steelers have won 5 in a row, they're an excellent team and they were playing at home. Gotta give the opponent some credit, too. I told my wife before the game that the Steelers were favored by only 2 and I'd have bet heavily on them if I did that kind of thing.
The Panthers now get 10 days off before going to Detroit. If they play poorly against an inferior Lions team ... then I'll really be concerned.
Meanwhile ...
I think the Bills just scored again on the Vikings!
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This is the best Trubisky has looked as a pro, he’s been outstanding thus far today.
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He's improving. The Lions made the mistake of hiring a Belichik protoge.
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He's improving. The Lions made the mistake of hiring a Belichik protoge.
True dat. Two, actually. Coach and GM.
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Really, any coach who bothers to tell a reporter not to slouch during a press conference, tells me all I need to know.
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Big win today for the Bears
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So this is the guy McCarthy refused to start for almost a year and a half!
Offensive genius ;D ;D
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Haven't been as excited for a Bears game as much as the one next weekend in a long time.
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When does Ron Zook’s raise get announced?
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When does Ron Zook’s raise get announced?
Laughable. Every special teams play is...special.
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Haha. I wish that got stuffed.
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This is the best Trubisky has looked as a pro, he’s been outstanding thus far today.
Ive been really hard on Nagy at times. And I thought he was unnecessarily protective or cautious with Trubisky early in the season after he made a mistake, but he's really done a nice job with him and set him up to be successful. If Trubisky can scale back the overthrows and settle into some consistently improved decision making, they might just have something.
In other young QB news, Baker is a player. Man he plays with confidence and is fun to watch.
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The Patriots went into Tennessee on a 6-game winning streak but then got crushed by the mediocre Titans.
Makes me feel a lot less worse about my Panthers' loss to a Steelers team that at least is a legit Super Bowl contender.
Also ...
Browns went into their game against Atlanta having lost 4 straight while the Falcons seemed to have turned their season around with 3 straight wins. Browns ended up winning fairly easily.
Eagles lost at home to a bad Dallas team.
Bengals are theoretically "contenders," but they have set a record by allowing 3 straight opponents to gain 500+ yards. (And the game before that they allowed 481.)
The Bears are 6-3 and the Eagles are 4-5. Whodathunkit?
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The Eagles aren’t good. I don’t know what’s going on there, but that’s a flat, uninspired football team, and has been all year.
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Hue Jackson has some amazing blackmail on Marvin Lewis.
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How does a team gain 507 yards and score 3 points - until Tampa Bay did it I would have said "Impossible!"
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How does a team gain 507 yards and score 3 points - until Tampa Bay did it I would have said "Impossible!"
4 turnovers and 2 missed FGs. Brutal.
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The Patriots went into Tennessee on a 6-game winning streak but then got crushed by the mediocre Titans.
Interesting.
Rams play GB and get crushed the next week.
NE plays GB and gets crushed the next week.
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How does a team gain 507 yards and score 3 points - until Tampa Bay did it I would have said "Impossible!"
Same way a team gains 191 yards and scores 41 points!
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Hue Jackson has some amazing blackmail on Marvin Lewis.
Nah, he was an assistant under Marvin Lewis for 7 years in a variety of roles. And Marvin realizes that whatever he has been doing has made him impervious to firing, against all odds. So might as well get the band back together and play the old hits.
Mike Brown can’t even stay awake in the box during games, why would he fire anyone?
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Hue Jackson has some amazing blackmail on Marvin Lewis.
Or the Bengals still have 2 games left vs the Browns, and are desperate.
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I think Hue Jackson is regarded highly as a coordinator. He has coached some good offenses.
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Makes me feel a lot less worse about my Panthers' loss
You mean better?
(;) Now I'm just screwing with you, 82)
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The Bears having to play Thursday morning after playing Sunday night is pretty brutal.
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So Le'Veon Bell didn't show up and it's now certain he won't play a down this season. Thoughts?
My take: if it's purely about maximizing guaranteed dollars, he made a mistake (or more likely, got poor advice). $14 million guaranteed this year + guaranteed bonuses in free agency next year would have ensured him tens of millions of guaranteed dollars. I don't buy the "risk of injury" angle: if he wanted to protect against missing out on a big payday due to career-threatening injury, he could have purchased an awfully large insurance policy with a small fraction of the $14 mil guaranteed to him this year.
BUT. If it's about maximizing the potential for long-term dollars, that changes things a bit. He's preserved his body a year, which is a big deal for someone who took such a beating every season, and accomplishes at least two things:
(1) he's a lot more valuable in free agency having preserved himself this year rather than having gotten his body smashed 400+ times over the course of the season; and
(2) he's theoretically extended the length of time he'll be effective while playing on his second contract, meaning he's more likely to collect his NON-GUARANTEED yearly pay into years 3 and 4 of his second deal, and all the while position himself for a third deal.
Having said that, it seems like one of his purposes was to prove the free agency market should be governed player rather than position. And well, given Conner's breakout, that one didn't work the way he thought.
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I was going to say something like "Here's a crazy story," but unfortunately it's not very unusual any more ...
Former Detroit Lions Hall of Famer Lem Barney and his wife are suing a Detroit-area pizza chain for racial discrimination after being refused service.
The lawsuit filed Monday says when Lem and Jacqueline Barney tried to order at Happy's Pizza in Commerce Township, the manager told them to go to Happy's Southfield location because "they would be more at home there."
The Barneys are black. Southfield has a majority black population, and Commerce Township is mostly white.
What year is this again?
There are about a half-dozen articles like this every week now. In October in the Charlotte area alone, there were 4 separate incidents of white folks calling the cops on black people just because the people had the nerve to be black.
No need to wear hoods any more. Very fine people, and all.
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I was going to say something like "Here's a crazy story," but unfortunately it's not very unusual any more ...
Former Detroit Lions Hall of Famer Lem Barney and his wife are suing a Detroit-area pizza chain for racial discrimination after being refused service.
The lawsuit filed Monday says when Lem and Jacqueline Barney tried to order at Happy's Pizza in Commerce Township, the manager told them to go to Happy's Southfield location because "they would be more at home there."
The Barneys are black. Southfield has a majority black population, and Commerce Township is mostly white.
What year is this again?
There are about a half-dozen articles like this every week now. In October in the Charlotte area alone, there were 4 separate incidents of white folks calling the cops on black people just because the people had the nerve to be black.
No need to wear hoods any more. Very fine people, and all.
He has a history of illegal drug use (including coke) and has filed discrimination lawsuits in the past.. if what he claims happened is true, that's awful... but, filing a lawsuit does not make something true. #RespectTheProcess
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I was going to say something like "Here's a crazy story," but unfortunately it's not very unusual any more ...
Former Detroit Lions Hall of Famer Lem Barney and his wife are suing a Detroit-area pizza chain for racial discrimination after being refused service.
The lawsuit filed Monday says when Lem and Jacqueline Barney tried to order at Happy's Pizza in Commerce Township, the manager told them to go to Happy's Southfield location because "they would be more at home there."
The Barneys are black. Southfield has a majority black population, and Commerce Township is mostly white.
What year is this again?
There are about a half-dozen articles like this every week now. In October in the Charlotte area alone, there were 4 separate incidents of white folks calling the cops on black people just because the people had the nerve to be black.
No need to wear hoods any more. Very fine people, and all.
That's awful, if true. That's what we have courts and investigations for to attempt to provide evidence of guilt or innocence.
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O boi, da NFC thread iz well on itz wey ta lockdom hell, aina?
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That's awful, if true. That's what we have courts and investigations for to attempt to provide evidence of guilt or innocence.
Well naturally, we don't know if this Lem Barney thing is true or not yet, but given what we do know -- "hate crimes" surged by 17% last year -- it would not be surprising at all.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/11/13/fbi-hate-crimes-surge-2017-jump-anti-semitic-attacks/1987305002/
And based on anecdotal evidence, those numbers will only increase in 2018.
#nohoodsneeded