NFC North / NFL Thread 2018-19

[Dish]

Chicago Bears have reported to training camp!

If the NFL team that you follow was not smart enough to fire their head coach and hire a new one for the sole purpose of getting an extra week of training camp, then it sucks to be you.

The Bears start camp early because they're playing the Ravens in the HOF exhibition game. Each year the two teams playing in that game have the option to start camp earlier than other teams.

[barfolomew]

The Bears start camp early because they're playing the Ravens in the HOF exhibition game. Each year the two teams playing in that game have the option to start camp earlier than other teams.

Right you are.
Wasn't there some kind of coaching change benefit? Or did I misread that somewhere?

[Pakuni]

Right you are.
Wasn't there some kind of coaching change benefit? Or did I misread that somewhere?

Teams that change head coaches are allowed to hold an additional "voluntary" minicamp.

[jesmu84]

https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/is-aaron-rodgers-the-biggest-waste-of-talent-in-nfl-history

[GGGG]

https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/is-aaron-rodgers-the-biggest-waste-of-talent-in-nfl-history

Any thesis that uses passer rating as its base is a bad thesis.  I mean, Russell Wilson has the second highest passer rating of all time?  Cmon...

But should the Packers have won more with Favre / Rodgers?  Yes.  When all is said and done, the Packers will have 30 years with two of the best quarterbacks in NFL history but possibly only two championships to show for it. 

But I'm not going to be that guy.  Those championships were fun!  And when you look at players like Marino and Sanders who never won one, I'm going to choose to be happy.

[tower912]

Lions fan laughs at the notion.    Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson, and Matthew Stafford have all been wasted.   One playoff win in my lifetime.   

[RJax55]

Any thesis that uses passer rating as its base is a bad thesis.  I mean, Russell Wilson has the second highest passer rating of all time?  Cmon...

But should the Packers have won more with Favre / Rodgers?  Yes.  When all is said and done, the Packers will have 30 years with two of the best quarterbacks in NFL history but possibly only two championships to show for it. 

But I'm not going to be that guy.  Those championships were fun!  And when you look at players like Marino and Sanders who never won one, I'm going to choose to be happy.

Yeah, when Kirk Cousins! is #10 all-time, perhaps passer rating isn't the best metric to rate all-time QB play.

[RJax55]

Lions fan laughs at the notion.    Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson, and Matthew Stafford have all been wasted.   One playoff win in my lifetime.

Hard to argue on Sanders and Johnson. First-ballot HOFers, incredible talent and production. One playoff win.

[Hards Alumni]

Any thesis that uses passer rating as its base is a bad thesis.  I mean, Russell Wilson has the second highest passer rating of all time?  Cmon...

But should the Packers have won more with Favre / Rodgers?  Yes.  When all is said and done, the Packers will have 30 years with two of the best quarterbacks in NFL history but possibly only two championships to show for it. 

But I'm not going to be that guy.  Those championships were fun!  And when you look at players like Marino and Sanders who never won one, I'm going to choose to be happy.

This has been my view.  I think McCarthy held his job as long as he has simply by having Rodgers on the team.  I'm not ever going to be happy with just the two super bowls... its extremely disappointing.

[GGGG]

This has been my view.  I think McCarthy held his job as long as he has simply by having Rodgers on the team.  I'm not ever going to be happy with just the two super bowls... its extremely disappointing.

Nah. After dealing with the 70s and 80s and seeing franchises like the Lions, I'm going to look at the positive side.

Yeah I don't think McCarthy is terrible, but I don't think he is any better than "good."

[Hards Alumni]

Nah. After dealing with the 70s and 80s and seeing franchises like the Lions, I'm going to look at the positive side.

Yeah I don't think McCarthy is terrible, but I don't think he is any better than "good."

Born in the early 80's I only had to watch a few dog crap packer seasons.

[tower912]

One of my enduring Packer memories from the 80's is Lynn Dickey turtling and going down without a defender within two yards of him.   

[🏀]

Rodgers has absolutely been wasted.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Rodgers has absolutely been wasted.

Farve was wasted too, aina?

[🏀]

Farve was wasted too, aina?

Farve lost himself a lot of games. I can't say that for AR12.

[wadesworld]

The only season I feel was "wasted" was the NFC Title game at Seattle. And that's why Mac should've been left in the Seattle locker room. That game was 100% on him and we would've played a Pats team that we had already beaten that season.

Other than that it's been a lot of injuries and you can't do much about that. When you go into AZ with Jeff Janis and Jerad Abbrederis as your top 2 receiver options or go into ATL with Gunter having to shadow Julio Jones as your #1 DB you're not leaving those places with a W.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Farve was wasted too, aina?

LOL

[mu03eng]

The only season I feel was "wasted" was the NFC Title game at Seattle. And that's why Mac should've been left in the Seattle locker room. That game was 100% on him and we would've played a Pats team that we had already beaten that season.

Other than that it's been a lot of injuries and you can't do much about that. When you go into AZ with Jeff Janis and Jerad Abbrederis as your top 2 receiver options or go into ATL with Gunter having to shadow Julio Jones as your #1 DB you're not leaving those places with a W.

I get the injury argument, but given what a steal Rodgers contract has been the last 4 seasons you have all the money you need to build depth which clearly TT did not. Further, all the talk out of training camp (other than injuries, AGAIN) is the rousing speech Pettine gave and how the accountability/vibe of the defense is different this year. So why couldn't they have done that 2 or 3 years ago to maybe give the D a chance to support Rodgers. I think Rodgers career has been largely wasted/taken advantage of by the Packers organization....they assumed they could roll Rodgers out there without paying for talent around him and Mac fell into the Holgren trap where he thought he was the smartest dude in the room and could get cute with things. If Rodgers doesn't retire with at least two rings, it will be tragic.

[GGGG]

I get the injury argument, but given what a steal Rodgers contract has been the last 4 seasons you have all the money you need to build depth which clearly TT did not. Further, all the talk out of training camp (other than injuries, AGAIN) is the rousing speech Pettine gave and how the accountability/vibe of the defense is different this year. So why couldn't they have done that 2 or 3 years ago to maybe give the D a chance to support Rodgers. I think Rodgers career has been largely wasted/taken advantage of by the Packers organization....they assumed they could roll Rodgers out there without paying for talent around him and Mac fell into the Holgren trap where he thought he was the smartest dude in the room and could get cute with things. If Rodgers doesn't retire with at least two rings, it will be tragic.

First things first - that wouldn't be "tragic."  Yeah it would be disappointing, but let's not engage in too much hyperbole here.

But regardless, I do think that McCarthy was hampered by TT rigidly adhering to the build from within philosophy over everything else.  Obviously that philosophy as a core base makes perfect sense, but you have to supplement your mistakes with free agents.  I mean, that's what ultimately got them Charles Woodson right?

As for Capers, I don't know whether the failures were his fault cause the game passed him by, or if he also is a victim of TT's philosophy.  I just know a change was needed.

I also don't agree that the Seattle meltdown was McCarthy's fault.  If Julius Peppers doesn't tell Burnett to lie down after his INT, that is likely returned for a TD and the game is over.  If Bostick plays the onside like he was supposed to, the game is likely over.  I actually think that was one of the best schemed games of recent McCarthy era.  They came into a very hostile environment and controlled 90% of the game.

[4everwarriors]

LOL

Constantly, aina?

[mu03eng]

First things first - that wouldn't be "tragic."  Yeah it would be disappointing, but let's not engage in too much hyperbole here.

Are you new to scoop?

I also don't agree that the Seattle meltdown was McCarthy's fault.  If Julius Peppers doesn't tell Burnett to lie down after his INT, that is likely returned for a TD and the game is over.  If Bostick plays the onside like he was supposed to, the game is likely over.  I actually think that was one of the best schemed games of recent McCarthy era.  They came into a very hostile environment and controlled 90% of the game.

I think it was great pre-game planning and scheme building but I think that game represents all the flaws that have come to represent MM. He is almost the anti-analytics guy without realizing it...kicked two field goals from inside the 10 yard line including on 4th and inches. Also went uber-conservative with his play calling in the late stages, ran Lacy 3 times in a row out of Shotgun for net -6 yards up 12 with 5 min to go in the 4th. You get a first down there and the game is over.

[wadesworld]

First things first - that wouldn't be "tragic."  Yeah it would be disappointing, but let's not engage in too much hyperbole here.

But regardless, I do think that McCarthy was hampered by TT rigidly adhering to the build from within philosophy over everything else.  Obviously that philosophy as a core base makes perfect sense, but you have to supplement your mistakes with free agents.  I mean, that's what ultimately got them Charles Woodson right?

As for Capers, I don't know whether the failures were his fault cause the game passed him by, or if he also is a victim of TT's philosophy.  I just know a change was needed.

I also don't agree that the Seattle meltdown was McCarthy's fault.  If Julius Peppers doesn't tell Burnett to lie down after his INT, that is likely returned for a TD and the game is over.  If Bostick plays the onside like he was supposed to, the game is likely over.  I actually think that was one of the best schemed games of recent McCarthy era.  They came into a very hostile environment and controlled 90% of the game.

I thought Mac coached the entire Seattle game from start to finish not to lose rather than going out and taking it.  The players followed suit.  The Packers had every opportunity to make that entire fourth quarter a formality, but Mac decided to take the air out of the football with about 26 minutes remaining in the game, after playing conservative in the red zone twice in the first quarter.

[Jay Bee]

Diggs 2 Skol 4 LongTime

[GGGG]

Are you new to scoop?

I think it was great pre-game planning and scheme building but I think that game represents all the flaws that have come to represent MM. He is almost the anti-analytics guy without realizing it...kicked two field goals from inside the 10 yard line including on 4th and inches. Also went uber-conservative with his play calling in the late stages, ran Lacy 3 times in a row out of Shotgun for net -6 yards up 12 with 5 min to go in the 4th. You get a first down there and the game is over.

I thought Mac coached the entire Seattle game from start to finish not to lose rather than going out and taking it.  The players followed suit.  The Packers had every opportunity to make that entire fourth quarter a formality, but Mac decided to take the air out of the football with about 26 minutes remaining in the game, after playing conservative in the red zone twice in the first quarter.

OK I can see that.  But I think ultimately if the players perform the way they are supposed to, that wouldn't have been a problem.

[mu03eng]

OK I can see that.  But I think ultimately if the players perform the way they are supposed to, that wouldn't have been a problem.

True, but it's the age old question of days a coaches mentality/disposition impact the performance in the game. Does Burnett slide down because the team is playing cautious, does Bostick make a play at the ball "just to be safe" instead of doing his job and counting on other players to do theirs?

I think MM is a very good coach when his brain isn't getting in the way.