WWII discussion

[ZiggysFryBoy]

A lot of interesting discussion in 82's auto- lock thread on WWII.  Would like to continue it here.

[MU82]

A lot of interesting discussion in 82's auto- lock thread on WWII.  Would like to continue it here.

I'm still trying to figure out why that thread was locked.

Yes, it ventured from the original subject, but the new venture was very interesting.

It was a respectful thread and not at all political.

The stuff on the poison gas was interesting too.

[buckchuckler]

I'm still trying to figure out why that thread was locked.

Yes, it ventured from the original subject, but the new venture was very interesting.

It was a respectful thread and not at all political.

The stuff on the poison gas was interesting too.

I was confused as well, I apologize if I was the reason for the lockn as I believe I must have been.

[Benny B]

The production values are very poor, but there's a History Channel series on Netflix titled Nazi Mega Weapons.  I haven't seen the 2nd or 3rd seasons, but if someone wants to get woke to how close the Axis might have been to winning WWII, watch season 1, specifically the ME262 and the V2 episodes.  Either one of those perfected and in mass production would have drawn a completely different ending despite any Allied efforts.

[real chili 83]

The production values are very poor, but there's a History Channel series on Netflix titled Nazi Mega Weapons.  I haven't seen the 2nd or 3rd seasons, but if someone wants to get woke to how close the Axis might have been to winning WWII, watch season 1, specifically the ME262 and the V2 episodes.  Either one of those perfected and in mass production would have drawn a completely different ending despite any Allied efforts.

British had a jet too. 

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The production values are very poor, but there's a History Channel series on Netflix titled Nazi Mega Weapons.  I haven't seen the 2nd or 3rd seasons, but if someone wants to get woke to how close the Axis might have been to winning WWII, watch season 1, specifically the ME262 and the V2 episodes.  Either one of those perfected and in mass production would have drawn a completely different ending despite any Allied efforts.

Seems weird to say considering his influnce, but I always remember hearing that Hitler was the reason the Nazi's messed up WWII. Meaning if anybody other then Hitler was leading the Nazi army, they could have easily won the war.

[Eldon]

https://www.youtube.com/v/WOVEy1tC7nk

[real chili 83]

In HS I worked with a cook that was cook in WWII.  He was in the army and deployed to the Philippines. His kitchen was set up near a golf course   The Japanese would shell the golf course daily, so he called it Whack Whack golf course.  He was also very proud of the two Japanese he captured.....they surrendered, looking for food. 

[warriorchick]

British had a jet too.

I remember reading somewhere that after the war, the army discovered a scale model of what we now call the Stealth Bomber

[warriorchick]

In HS I worked with a cook that was cook in WWII.  He was in the army and deployed to the Philippines. His kitchen was set up near a golf course   The Japanese would shell the golf course daily, so he called it Whack Whack golf course.  He was also very proud of the two Japanese he captured.....they surrendered, looking for food.

I met the uncle of a friend who had arguably the best job in WWII - bartender in an officers club in the South Pacific. The actual fighting didn't come anywhere near him. From a strictly personal perspective, he didn't care if the war never ended.

[mu03eng]

British had a jet too.

US had the P-80(inferior to the ME-262) entering production in April of 45 as well.

[mu03eng]

The production values are very poor, but there's a History Channel series on Netflix titled Nazi Mega Weapons.  I haven't seen the 2nd or 3rd seasons, but if someone wants to get woke to how close the Axis might have been to winning WWII, watch season 1, specifically the ME262 and the V2 episodes.  Either one of those perfected and in mass production would have drawn a completely different ending despite any Allied efforts.

Yeah if the German military had been in charge I shutter to think what would have happened to the world. Hell, half of the US weapon programs (especially the Manhattan Project) owe their success to scientists who were either Jewish or morally opposed to the Nazi regime that escaped Germany prior to the war. Hitler stopped the German army at Dunkirk and redirected the Luftwaffe to attack cities instead of breaking the RAF like they were. He seemingly had strategic amnesia, early in the war he seemingly grasped the import of air superiority then once the US entered the war seemed to abandon it in favor of terror weapons and mis-use of resources....hell the ME-262 program was set back at least 9 months because Hitler demanded that it be redesigned for long range bombing so he could hit London.

Once the Allies invaded the continent, Hitler's unwillingness to strategically withdraw led to the war ending sooner than it could have

I suppose there is a lesson in there that evil by it's very nature creates the conditions for it's own failure.

[buckchuckler]

While the Allies had some jets, the were far inferior to the messerschmidt.  It was faster, more maneuverable and could out climb  the planes for the allies.  The only thing that really held it back was that it was so advanced there weren't really tactics for flying them so the Germans really didn't take full advantage of a superior weapon.  Heck, the only efficient was the allies had to defeat them was to shoot them when they were landing, taking off or stationary.

[muwarrior69]

While the Allies had some jets, the were far inferior to the messerschmidt.  It was faster, more maneuverable and could out climb  the planes for the allies.  The only thing that really held it back was that it was so advanced there weren't really tactics for flying them so the Germans really didn't take full advantage of a superior weapon.  Heck, the only efficient was the allies had to defeat them was to shoot them when they were landing, taking off or stationary.

We took a few of them down in air to air combat.

https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/tuskegee-airmen-vs-me-262s/

[mu03eng]

While the Allies had some jets, the were far inferior to the messerschmidt.  It was faster, more maneuverable and could out climb  the planes for the allies.  The only thing that really held it back was that it was so advanced there weren't really tactics for flying them so the Germans really didn't take full advantage of a superior weapon.  Heck, the only efficient was the allies had to defeat them was to shoot them when they were landing, taking off or stationary.

The two deficiencies in the 262 turning the tide in the strategic air war (IMO by the time it was introduced the damage to the German war making ability was already done) were its limited loitering ability and it's lack of numbers. If the Germans had moved it into mass production a year sooner, they could have really hammered the strategic air campaign.

[mu03eng]

We took a few of them down in air to air combat.

https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/tuskegee-airmen-vs-me-262s/

Chuck Yeager bagged one too

My son's name sake was credited to have gotten an 262 as a top turrent gunner on a B-17 (gunner kills were even more inaccurate than fighter kills because they're all firing away so you can't really know who got it or for sure that it was gotten).

Couple of days later(April of 45), a 262 got it's revenge and shot their B-17 out from under them, my great uncle and another guy were the only ones to bail out. He was captured temporarily, managed to escape and then that night was caught by the SS and executed.

[mu03eng]

To bring it back to the gas discussion previously.....one thing I've often wondered about, why wasn't gas used by the Germans or the Japanese on the battlefield? I mean they were both doing some really, really awful stuff anyway (Holocaust, experimentation of PoWs, summary execution of PoWs, Death Marches, etc). Why not deploy chemical weapons on the battlefield, it at least had a tactical impact. Why restrain themselves in that one area?

[MU82]

To bring it back to the gas discussion previously.....one thing I've often wondered about, why wasn't gas used by the Germans or the Japanese on the battlefield? I mean they were both doing some really, really awful stuff anyway (Holocaust, experimentation of PoWs, summary execution of PoWs, Death Marches, etc). Why not deploy chemical weapons on the battlefield, it at least had a tactical impact. Why restrain themselves in that one area?

I have often wondered the same thing. They had absolutely no morals. They weren't following any rules.

Maybe they were worried they couldn't have controlled the gas due to winds and that it would have blown back to kill their own troops? That's about the only thing I can think of.

[muwarrior69]

To bring it back to the gas discussion previously.....one thing I've often wondered about, why wasn't gas used by the Germans or the Japanese on the battlefield? I mean they were both doing some really, really awful stuff anyway (Holocaust, experimentation of PoWs, summary execution of PoWs, Death Marches, etc). Why not deploy chemical weapons on the battlefield, it at least had a tactical impact. Why restrain themselves in that one area?

Hitler was a victim of a gas attack in WWI and was averse to using them in combat, but not the concentration camps. Funny how we humans can compartmentalize brutality.

[MU82]

Hitler was a victim of a gas attack in WWI and was averse to using them in combat, but not the concentration camps. Funny how we humans can compartmentalize brutality.

You know ... I never liked that Hitler guy.

[muwarrior69]

I met the uncle of a friend who had arguably the best job in WWII - bartender in an officers club in the South Pacific. The actual fighting didn't come anywhere near him. From a strictly personal perspective, he didn't care if the war never ended.

My dad was shipped out too the Pacific, but when his squadron reached Seattle they were reassigned to Fairbanks Alaska. I have old photos of him sweeping snow from his barracks in June and trout fishing in August. He also flew support missions dropping supplies to our troops fighting the Japanese on the Aleutians; the only ground battles fought on American soil during the war. He also earned enough money to buy my mom's engagement ring picking potatoes under the Alaskan midnight sun.

[buckchuckler]

I have often wondered the same thing. They had absolutely no morals. They weren't following any rules.

Maybe they were worried they couldn't have controlled the gas due to winds and that it would have blown back to kill their own troops? That's about the only thing I can think of.

This happened fairly regularly during WWI.  Gas was an ineffective weapon as its killing power literally blew in the wind. 

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Chuck Yeager bagged one too

My son's name sake was credited to have gotten an 262 as a top turrent gunner on a B-17 (gunner kills were even more inaccurate than fighter kills because they're all firing away so you can't really know who got it or for sure that it was gotten).

Couple of days later(April of 45), a 262 got it's revenge and shot their B-17 out from under them, my great uncle and another guy were the only ones to bail out. He was captured temporarily, managed to escape and then that night was caught by the SS and executed.

First, amazing story about your great uncle.

second, if you ever have the chance to see a B-17 or other WWII bomber, do it.  The Pima Air Museum in Tucson has one on display.  The technological improvements between the B-17 and the B-29 were pretty impressive.

The tail gunners in the B-17 were little guys with huge testes.

[buckchuckler]

Yeah if the German military had been in charge I shutter to think what would have happened to the world. Hell, half of the US weapon programs (especially the Manhattan Project) owe their success to scientists who were either Jewish or morally opposed to the Nazi regime that escaped Germany prior to the war. Hitler stopped the German army at Dunkirk and redirected the Luftwaffe to attack cities instead of breaking the RAF like they were. He seemingly had strategic amnesia, early in the war he seemingly grasped the import of air superiority then once the US entered the war seemed to abandon it in favor of terror weapons and mis-use of resources....hell the ME-262 program was set back at least 9 months because Hitler demanded that it be redesigned for long range bombing so he could hit London.

Once the Allies invaded the continent, Hitler's unwillingness to strategically withdraw led to the war ending sooner than it could have

I suppose there is a lesson in there that evil by it's very nature creates the conditions for it's own failure.

Dunkirk and the Battle of Britain, were instrumental in Hitler's lack of trust in others.  In both of these battles he listened to Herman Goring saying the battles could be won on the strength of the luftwaffe alone, obviously he was wrong on both counts.  This led to Hitler losing trust in the advice of pretty much anyone.  This ended up having lasting effects, as Goring (and most--it not all-- of the German generals) were completely against attacking Russia before the western front was, well, settled. 

[mu03eng]

The tail gunners in the B-17 were little guys with huge testes.

I'd reserve that for the ball turret gunner...tiny dude hanging 30,000 feet in the air