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Author Topic: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread  (Read 198066 times)

Hards Alumni

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #525 on: March 22, 2020, 12:58:33 PM »
All things considered, not a bad way to spend a lockdown. Hope they are in good spirits

Well now their ship has quarantined the passengers to their rooms.  Food delivered to them.

So that isn't exciting.

BM1090

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #526 on: March 22, 2020, 06:19:24 PM »
Recommendations for vacations in South America?

Looking at Peru, Chile or Argentina.

drewm88

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #527 on: March 22, 2020, 10:23:31 PM »
Recommendations for vacations in South America?

Looking at Peru, Chile or Argentina.

Just got back from Peru. Lima was fascinating. Cusco/Sacred Valley was breathtaking.

dgies9156

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #528 on: March 23, 2020, 07:57:30 AM »
Other than the price, Amtrak is actually pretty good here in the Northeast.

Wether good or bad I read an article that the former Delta CEO had been running Amtrak and turning some stuff around.

In the NEC, Amtrak is the best way to travel. Outside the NEC, it is a joke.

Richard Anderson, Amtrak's CEO, was at the forefront of reviving Amtrak and probably was the best leader the railroad ever had. He went after the long-distance train group the way any corporate executive would go after a money losing, poorly operated and horribly inefficient division. He wanted reform and had proposed eliminating much of it in favor of the kind of corridor service you have in the Northeast.

For that, he was chased off the ranch. Not sure if he was fired or quit and frankly it doesn't matter. He spoke the truth and for that, he no longer runs Amtrak.

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #529 on: March 23, 2020, 08:02:05 AM »
In the NEC, Amtrak is the best way to travel. Outside the NEC, it is a joke.

Richard Anderson, Amtrak's CEO, was at the forefront of reviving Amtrak and probably was the best leader the railroad ever had. He went after the long-distance train group the way any corporate executive would go after a money losing, poorly operated and horribly inefficient division. He wanted reform and had proposed eliminating much of it in favor of the kind of corridor service you have in the Northeast.

For that, he was chased off the ranch. Not sure if he was fired or quit and frankly it doesn't matter. He spoke the truth and for that, he no longer runs Amtrak.

One of the issues with Amtrak is unprofitable routes.  These are seen as government service to communities and keep getting protected at the expense of profitability.  I personally don't know who is taking an Amtrak train as a necessity since it is pretty expensive and very inefficient, but its still seen that way.  Many people who have run this railroad have gotten to that issue and failed/move on when they see the political will is not there to eliminate these.

dgies9156

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #530 on: March 23, 2020, 08:31:12 AM »
One of the issues with Amtrak is unprofitable routes.  These are seen as government service to communities and keep getting protected at the expense of profitability.  I personally don't know who is taking an Amtrak train as a necessity since it is pretty expensive and very inefficient, but its still seen that way.  Many people who have run this railroad have gotten to that issue and failed/move on when they see the political will is not there to eliminate these.

Count me among them.

I was brought in back in 1999 because the CEO of Amtrak, the late George Warrington, demanded that we be on a glidepath to self-sufficiency. I ran financial analysis for the long-distance train group and for a promising but later ill-fated Mail & Express group.

I loved the job. It was challenging and we were doing things that heretofore had not been done.

But politics intervened. We tried to streamline dining services and were told "there was no political appetite for it." We found fraud only to find that the product line admitted they knew about it for some time. We tried to reduce station services in places where the ticket revenue from passengers who boarded and detrained at the station was insufficient to even cover the salary of the agent.

You can guess what happened. The agent was in West Virginia and a government affairs person called me angrily and asked if I wanted to tell Senator Byrd I was eliminating the job of one of his constituents. I said, "No ____, that's your job!"

Two trains that operate make absolutely no economic or social sense whatsoever. The Cardinal, which ran from Chicago to Washington, DC and New York via West Virginia and the Sunset Limited, which ran from Los Angeles to New Orleans and didn't cross a city of 100,000 people between El Paso and Tucson. Trains work when you have population density, which is why the NEC works and most of the long distance system does not.

The Cardinal and Sunset Limited are political trains. Amtrak won't be ready for reform until both are killed and their equipment put into corridor service.

Probably the worst Amtrak pork muncher is a former Vice President who is running for President. When he was a U.S. Senator from Delaware, he was brought in to speak to our Management meeting. He smiled and said some nice words about our work and then wagged his finger at us and warned us not to touch any staff in Delaware (Amtrak has a major maintenance center at Bare and a crew base in Wilmington). "They're nice people," he said, failing to mention then that we were one of Delaware's largest employers and if we shuttered Bare, or laid off significant numbers of our team there, his re-election chances would be mortally wounded.


warriorchick

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #531 on: March 23, 2020, 12:18:17 PM »
When Glow jr. was stationed in Mississippi for FEMA Corps, he took the City of New Orleans (yes, like the song) to and from Jackson, because airfares were insane (apparently, no one really wants to fly to Jackson).

His train was always several hours late arriving at its destination, with no decent excuse like weather.  If you can't even predict when your transportation will get there within a half-day window, you've got problems.
Have some patience, FFS.

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #532 on: March 23, 2020, 12:28:48 PM »
When Glow jr. was stationed in Mississippi for FEMA Corps, he took the City of New Orleans (yes, like the song) to and from Jackson, because airfares were insane (apparently, no one really wants to fly to Jackson).

His train was always several hours late arriving at its destination, with no decent excuse like weather.  If you can't even predict when your transportation will get there within a half-day window, you've got problems.

Part of that problem is that Amtrak rents space on the rails and gets put behind freight (commerce).  So they are at the mercy of the company that owns the line, with some parameters.

jesmu84

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #533 on: March 23, 2020, 12:38:36 PM »
Pardon the ignorance... Are rail stations/tracks more expensive to build than airports?

dgies9156

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #534 on: March 23, 2020, 12:42:26 PM »
Part of that problem is that Amtrak rents space on the rails and gets put behind freight (commerce).  So they are at the mercy of the company that owns the line, with some parameters.

Half right.

Amtrak has slots on which it operates passenger trains. Just like a landing slot at ORD or LGA. The slots are between freight trains that operate on the same line.

While many miles of rail are double tracked mainline, most of America's rails are single track. Trains are cleared across a block, where they have exclusive access. The block clearances are dependent on everything from how fast trains are moving, whether you have a breakdown or accident in the block or how long the sidings are. Hint: Short sidings cannot be used by long trains.

Another problem not generally known is that the General Freight Speed in the United States is 52 miles per hour. The speed at which passenger trains outside the NEC operate generally is 79 miles per hour. Except for all you journalists, you passed math. One of the questions in seventh grade math was the weeding-out calculation for train dispatchers. If one train leaves Stuart at 79 miles an hour and the other leaves Jacksonville at 52 miles an hour, where will they meet? If you want to make it real life: There's a 3,000 foot passing siding at Daytona Beach and a 3,500 foot passing siding at Cocoa. Which train gets the siding and how long will it wait for the other to pass?

We have not built any new rail, except for Virgin Trains from Cocoa to Orlando (which is under construction now). In fact, more than a few lines of rail were torn up in the 1970s and 1980s because of lost business.

That's why Amtrak has problems!


dgies9156

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #535 on: March 23, 2020, 12:45:09 PM »
Pardon the ignorance... Are rail stations/tracks more expensive to build than airports?

Depends on how long, what you want them to do and how much right of way you have to acquire.

If you want high-speed passenger rail, you have to electrify it. You probably need grade separation (i.e., bridges, tunnels and fencing). Electrification on intercity rail means elevated power lines and towers to hold the line.

You also will need tons and tons of concrete ties, ballast to hold it down and quarter-mile or more segments of welded rail.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #536 on: March 23, 2020, 12:51:31 PM »
Depends on how long, what you want them to do and how much right of way you have to acquire.

If you want high-speed passenger rail, you have to electrify it. You probably need grade separation (i.e., bridges, tunnels and fencing). Electrification on intercity rail means elevated power lines and towers to hold the line.

You also will need tons and tons of concrete ties, ballast to hold it down and quarter-mile or more segments of welded rail.

This ignores the most expensive part.  Buying the land to run the track on.

dgies9156

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #537 on: March 23, 2020, 01:40:08 PM »
This ignores the most expensive part.  Buying the land to run the track on.

Depends on how long, what you want them to do and how much right of way you have to acquire.

Don't think so LOL!

Coleman

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #538 on: March 23, 2020, 01:44:00 PM »
In the NEC, Amtrak is the best way to travel. Outside the NEC, it is a joke.

Richard Anderson, Amtrak's CEO, was at the forefront of reviving Amtrak and probably was the best leader the railroad ever had. He went after the long-distance train group the way any corporate executive would go after a money losing, poorly operated and horribly inefficient division. He wanted reform and had proposed eliminating much of it in favor of the kind of corridor service you have in the Northeast.

For that, he was chased off the ranch. Not sure if he was fired or quit and frankly it doesn't matter. He spoke the truth and for that, he no longer runs Amtrak.

Hiawatha is definitely not a joke. It is a comfortable ride and faster than driving between MKE and Chicago in rush hour.

I agree with Chick that cross-country trips on Amtrak are not dependable and hardly ever on time. But for trips like Hiawatha or Chicago to St. Louis they can make a lot of sense.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #539 on: March 23, 2020, 01:51:38 PM »
Half right.

Amtrak has slots on which it operates passenger trains. Just like a landing slot at ORD or LGA. The slots are between freight trains that operate on the same line.

While many miles of rail are double tracked mainline, most of America's rails are single track. Trains are cleared across a block, where they have exclusive access. The block clearances are dependent on everything from how fast trains are moving, whether you have a breakdown or accident in the block or how long the sidings are. Hint: Short sidings cannot be used by long trains.

Another problem not generally known is that the General Freight Speed in the United States is 52 miles per hour. The speed at which passenger trains outside the NEC operate generally is 79 miles per hour. Except for all you journalists, you passed math. One of the questions in seventh grade math was the weeding-out calculation for train dispatchers. If one train leaves Stuart at 79 miles an hour and the other leaves Jacksonville at 52 miles an hour, where will they meet? If you want to make it real life: There's a 3,000 foot passing siding at Daytona Beach and a 3,500 foot passing siding at Cocoa. Which train gets the siding and how long will it wait for the other to pass?

We have not built any new rail, except for Virgin Trains from Cocoa to Orlando (which is under construction now). In fact, more than a few lines of rail were torn up in the 1970s and 1980s because of lost business.

That's why Amtrak has problems!

Connecticut double tracked the line between New Haven & Springfield, Mass, so it could exponentially expand commuter rail service.  The state worked in conjunction with Amtrak.   
(Coincidentally, I believe it was paid for by the federal government with funds originally allocated for the train line from Milwaukee to Madison.)

Hards Alumni

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #540 on: March 23, 2020, 02:10:06 PM »
Depends on how long, what you want them to do and how much right of way you have to acquire.

Don't think so LOL!

Right, which is why its expensive.

dgies9156

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #541 on: March 23, 2020, 02:16:09 PM »
Hiawatha is definitely not a joke. It is a comfortable ride and faster than driving between MKE and Chicago in rush hour.

I agree with Chick that cross-country trips on Amtrak are not dependable and hardly ever on time. But for trips like Hiawatha or Chicago to St. Louis they can make a lot of sense.

Brother Coleman:

That's called corridor service. That's the type of service Mr. Anderson was trying to play up. I absolutely agree with you (having used it more than a few times).

The best thing Amtrak could do would be to ditch Denver and add more, faster trains over short distances to places like Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Cleveland and Minneapolis.

But the foamers (people who foam at the mouth at the sight of a train) want the long-distance train service. Period. They are archaic.  And, for some strange reason, they have a magical hold on Congress generally reserved for real estate agents, credit unions and large moneyed contributors.

Until they build a statue of Richard Anderson as father of the Contemporary Rail System at Union Station in Washington, we'll be stuck with a slow-moving, crappy system that few ride but Congress loves.



ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #542 on: March 23, 2020, 02:36:35 PM »
Connecticut double tracked the line between New Haven & Springfield, Mass, so it could exponentially expand commuter rail service.  The state worked in conjunction with Amtrak.   
(Coincidentally, I believe it was paid for by the federal government with funds originally allocated for the train line from Milwaukee to Madison.)

the Amtrak stop in Dane Co is right in downtown Madison near UW, crap near the airport, crap, right off the interstate, crap, next to the central bus station, crap, in Columbus -a town of 4900 people a half hour's drive from downtown Madison on a good day.  No worries, you can take a Madison Metro bus to Columbus to get to the Amtrak station.  It's only a 2 hour 45 minute bike ride.


🏀

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #543 on: March 23, 2020, 02:50:10 PM »
the Amtrak stop in Dane Co is right in downtown Madison near UW, crap near the airport, crap, right off the interstate, crap, next to the central bus station, crap, in Columbus -a town of 4900 people a half hour's drive from downtown Madison on a good day.  No worries, you can take a Madison Metro bus to Columbus to get to the Amtrak station.  It's only a 2 hour 45 minute bike ride.



Wow, never knew that. That's extremely poor and sad.

Coleman

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #544 on: March 23, 2020, 02:56:50 PM »
Brother Coleman:

That's called corridor service. That's the type of service Mr. Anderson was trying to play up. I absolutely agree with you (having used it more than a few times).

The best thing Amtrak could do would be to ditch Denver and add more, faster trains over short distances to places like Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Cleveland and Minneapolis.

But the foamers (people who foam at the mouth at the sight of a train) want the long-distance train service. Period. They are archaic.  And, for some strange reason, they have a magical hold on Congress generally reserved for real estate agents, credit unions and large moneyed contributors.

Until they build a statue of Richard Anderson as father of the Contemporary Rail System at Union Station in Washington, we'll be stuck with a slow-moving, crappy system that few ride but Congress loves.

Then we agree more than we disagree.

dgies9156

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #545 on: March 23, 2020, 03:02:50 PM »
the Amtrak stop in Dane Co is right in downtown Madison near UW, crap near the airport, crap, right off the interstate, crap, next to the central bus station, crap, in Columbus -a town of 4900 people a half hour's drive from downtown Madison on a good day.  No worries, you can take a Madison Metro bus to Columbus to get to the Amtrak station.  It's only a 2 hour 45 minute bike ride.

This is a perfect example of why I became concerned at an earlier comment about federalizing air service. The second largest population center in Wisconsin, a university community and the center of government can't get railroad service.

What do you think will happen when the federal government gets control of air service? And the corollary is that once you serve a community, what do you think the chances ever will be that if the service does not work, you'll get rid of it?

Fed Air -- No where thank you very much!

Coleman

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #546 on: March 23, 2020, 03:05:45 PM »
This is a perfect example of why I became concerned at an earlier comment about federalizing air service. The second largest population center in Wisconsin, a university community and the center of government can't get railroad service.

What do you think will happen when the federal government gets control of air service? And the corollary is that once you serve a community, what do you think the chances ever will be that if the service does not work, you'll get rid of it?

Fed Air -- No where thank you very much!

There is a middle ground between nationalizing airline(s) and status quo...regulation, which is what we had for most of the 20th century.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #547 on: March 23, 2020, 03:33:32 PM »
This is a perfect example of why I became concerned at an earlier comment about federalizing air service. The second largest population center in Wisconsin, a university community and the center of government can't get railroad service.

What do you think will happen when the federal government gets control of air service? And the corollary is that once you serve a community, what do you think the chances ever will be that if the service does not work, you'll get rid of it?

Fed Air -- No where thank you very much!

I hope I'm not stepping into politics, but wasn't that a Scott Walker special canceling the project?

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #548 on: March 23, 2020, 04:11:03 PM »
I hope I'm not stepping into politics, but wasn't that a Scott Walker special canceling the project?

Walker killed the Cow Speed rail.

jesmu84

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #549 on: March 23, 2020, 04:17:17 PM »
Thanks for the train info, fam.

Airline/rail discussion furthers my belief that "politician" should not be a career. I dunno how long to limit it, but when your election success is predicated on doing something bad for the majority, that seems a bit wrong.

 

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