P U thoughts

[muguru]

You totally misunderstand my post. I don't care what anyone sees in next year's team. I am saying if the following happens:

• Top-15 ranking all year long
• Top-3 Big East finish
• Sweet 16

If all of those happen, is the rebuild on track? Is that acceptable for year 5?

Acceptable, IF that's not the ceiling, and the program continues an upwards trajectory from there...no steps backwards. Though I would say"it's about time, what took you so long"??

[Goose]

Sultan

Trust me, this one topic I am far more familiar with than you are. I find it comical that some people chose to argue on every point.

[brewcity77]

Sultan

Matt Carlino was born a basketball player and raised in a 24/7 basketball environment. Wojo did not coach him up one bit. I was specifically talking about one player. This is one argument I can say I know what the hell I am talking about.

You may know the family, you may be related, but coaching absolutely played a role. Whether it was what Wojo did directly with Carlino or the system he set him up in, Wojo put him in a position where he had greater success than any other year of his career. He did that despite having the worst supporting cast he had ever had. He scored more than he ever had despite playing at the slowest pace. And he did all of that at a more efficient rate than he had ever done before.

You can dismiss the staff all you like, but this staff put Carlino in the position to have the season he had. That was absolutely because of the coaching. And as it happened with his second lowest usage rate, it also wasn't because he was featured in this offense, because he was featured even more in the Dave Rose offense at BYU.

I don't know their relationship. I don't know what the specifics were. I don't need to know those things to see the system Carlino played in here allowed him to excel moreso than ever before while playing better competition than he faced before. The staff played a role in his best season ever. Discounting that out of hand is nonsensical.

Sorry, but there is no way that a player is put alongside the worst supporting cast of his career against the highest level of competition while playing at the slowest pace and he puts up career numbers in terms of raw scoring and efficiency without the coaching staff playing a role, directly or indirectly.

[jesmu84]

Bagpiping

He was in Time magazine as an eighth grader. Had offers to major, major D1 as an eiight grader. Through Jr year he and Austin Rivers were neck in neck as class rankings. Again, I know what I am talking about it.

Lol. Cause 8th grade rankings hold weight? Jeez dude.

[Galway Eagle]

Bagpiping

He was in Time magazine as an eighth grader. Had offers to major, major D1 as an eiight grader. Through Jr year he and Austin Rivers were neck in neck as class rankings. Again, I know what I am talking about it.

I’m not doubting what you are saying or that you know what you are talking about. I was only confused because it didn’t show him in the top 100 in the services I checked and thought that maybe you could help guide me to your source.

[nyg]

I’m not doubting what you are saying or that you know what you are talking about. I was only confused because it didn’t show him in the top 100 in the services I checked and thought that maybe you could help guide me to your source.

http://verbalcommits.com/players/matt-carlino

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2010/matt-carlino-6556

[Galway Eagle]

http://verbalcommits.com/players/matt-carlino

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2010/matt-carlino-6556

Right those were the sources checked it shows his as a 4* on espn and 3* on the others. That’s why I thought goose might be able to show me what I was missing. I did find a link from when he originally committed to IU that had him in the top 10 but did anything happen his senior year that would cause him to drop that massively?

[Goose]

He was ranked 17th as a sophomore when he committed to IU. Fell in rankings after he backed out of IU and moved back to AZ after one season playing high school ball in Indiana.

Again, not going to argue on this anymore. Very confident I know what I am talking about.

[TedBaxter]

Acceptable, IF that's not the ceiling, and the program continues an upwards trajectory from there...no steps backwards. Though I would say"it's about time, what took you so long"??

What took so long?  Wojo doesn't have your talent evaluation skills and your ability to recruit the nations top 15-20 players.

[GGGG]

 

You may know the family, you may be related, but coaching absolutely played a role. Whether it was what Wojo did directly with Carlino or the system he set him up in, Wojo put him in a position where he had greater success than any other year of his career. He did that despite having the worst supporting cast he had ever had. He scored more than he ever had despite playing at the slowest pace. And he did all of that at a more efficient rate than he had ever done before.

You can dismiss the staff all you like, but this staff put Carlino in the position to have the season he had. That was absolutely because of the coaching. And as it happened with his second lowest usage rate, it also wasn't because he was featured in this offense, because he was featured even more in the Dave Rose offense at BYU.

I don't know their relationship. I don't know what the specifics were. I don't need to know those things to see the system Carlino played in here allowed him to excel moreso than ever before while playing better competition than he faced before. The staff played a role in his best season ever. Discounting that out of hand is nonsensical.

Sorry, but there is no way that a player is put alongside the worst supporting cast of his career against the highest level of competition while playing at the slowest pace and he puts up career numbers in terms of raw scoring and efficiency without the coaching staff playing a role, directly or indirectly.

Shhh...Goose knows things.

[Jockey]

He was ranked 17th as a sophomore when he committed to IU. Fell in rankings after he backed out of IU and moved back to AZ after one season playing high school ball in Indiana.

Again, not going to argue on this anymore. Very confident I know what I am talking about.

A player doesn't drop because he moved to Arizona. If he was ranked 17th, he was well known to ALL of the scouts. A move does not cause a player to drop from 17th all the way out of the top 100.

You really think if Marvin Bagley moved to Idaho for his senior year in high school that scouts would no longer consider him one of the 2 best players in the country?

Pure silliness.

[muguru]

What took so long?  Wojo doesn't have your talent evaluation skills and your ability to recruit the nations top 15-20 players.

Ted you know damn well that this whole "rebuild" COULD have gone quicker..other schools have done it quicker. I know you are going to say how you like the way he's building with 4 year players etc etc, and that's fine. That does not mean he couldn't have rebuilt this thing quicker and STILL been on a 4 year plan, this year and next year etc..It wasn't like he did NOT have the option to bring in "quick fixes" in years one and two.

Honestly, it's not his recruiting that really bothers me, although...this current Freshman class doesn't do anything for me(there are no stars), and i said that at the time. It's almost like he got a little "lazy" with this class and did what a lot of teams do in the NFL, draft(recruit) for need, rather then take the best players available. I hope it works out.

But, I will ask you a question because I respect your opinions a lot...what have you seen from him thus far as a  floor Coach that has you impressed??

[Goose]

Jockey

Of course there is a back story. Dig it up. If you think he backed out of IU and ended up at UCLA, after turning down AZ, is a three star recruit, than I hope Wojo lands that kind of a three star recruit.

[Galway Eagle]

He was ranked 17th as a sophomore when he committed to IU. Fell in rankings after he backed out of IU and moved back to AZ after one season playing high school ball in Indiana.

Again, not going to argue on this anymore. Very confident I know what I am talking about.

I’m not arguing with you. I was genuinely asking because you seemed to be very confident and sure in this. If you feel this was an argument perhaps there are other conversations from scoop you’ve misinterpreted as well. (See now that was an argumentative statement)

[Goose]

Bagpiping

I was talking argue in general, Brew and Sultan are the experts and was referring to their posts. Truthfully, I don’t give a damn.

[Galway Eagle]

Bagpiping

I was talking argue in general, Brew and Sultan are the experts and was referring to their posts. Truthfully, I don’t give a damn.

Apologies then.

[g0lden3agle]

Bagpiping

I was talking argue in general, Brew and Sultan are the experts and was referring to their posts. Truthfully, I don’t give a damn.

At some point "what you did in many years of college basketball" weighs a lot more than "what you were rated going into college".  Especially when considering what impact a coach had/has on getting the most out of a player.

[Goose]

Bagpiping

No need to apologize. Hate myself for taking the bait on a stupid discussion. Wish I never challenged TAMU on his stating Wojo made Matt a better player.
To be honest, I do have a big chip on my shoulder regarding Matt. His first two months at MU he was bashed on here everyday. IMO he was the same player on his last day at MU as he was day one. Again, that is my belief.

[GGGG]

Ted you know damn well that this whole "rebuild" COULD have gone quicker..other schools have done it quicker. I know you are going to say how you like the way he's building with 4 year players etc etc, and that's fine. That does not mean he couldn't have rebuilt this thing quicker and STILL been on a 4 year plan, this year and next year etc..It wasn't like he did NOT have the option to bring in "quick fixes" in years one and two.

Honestly, it's not his recruiting that really bothers me, although...this current Freshman class doesn't do anything for me(there are no stars), and i said that at the time. It's almost like he got a little "lazy" with this class and did what a lot of teams do in the NFL, draft(recruit) for need, rather then take the best players available. I hope it works out.
 

I would argue that he did go for quick fixes in one and two.  Carlino and Ellenson are examples.  I believe he also went for some grad transfers whose names I don't recall.

That is an interesting thought regarding this year's class.  Maybe "focused" is a better word than lazy?

We'd probably feel better if he had landed Tillman.

[brewcity77]

Bagpiping

No need to apologize. Hate myself for taking the bait on a stupid discussion. Wish I never challenged TAMU on his stating Wojo made Matt a better player.
To be honest, I do have a big chip on my shoulder regarding Matt. His first two months at MU he was bashed on here everyday. IMO he was the same player on his last day at MU as he was day one. Again, that is my belief.

But Wojo put him in the best position to succeed. What other possible explanation is there for him having career highs in both volume and efficiency numbers despite a weaker supporting cast, slower tempo, and tougher opposition?

I'm honestly asking because the only possibilities I can think of are Carlino massively improved from April to November 2014 or the Marquette coaching staff put him in a better position to succeed. And your post seems to dismiss the first option.

EDIT: And whether Carlino improved or not, the point is our coaching staff put him in a better position to succeed.

[jesmu84]

Ted you know damn well that this whole "rebuild" COULD have gone quicker..other schools have done it quicker. I know you are going to say how you like the way he's building with 4 year players etc etc, and that's fine. That does not mean he couldn't have rebuilt this thing quicker and STILL been on a 4 year plan, this year and next year etc..It wasn't like he did NOT have the option to bring in "quick fixes" in years one and two.

Honestly, it's not his recruiting that really bothers me, although...this current Freshman class doesn't do anything for me(there are no stars), and i said that at the time. It's almost like he got a little "lazy" with this class and did what a lot of teams do in the NFL, draft(recruit) for need, rather then take the best players available. I hope it works out.

But, I will ask you a question because I respect your opinions a lot...what have you seen from him thus far as a  floor Coach that has you impressed??

What were the quick fixes that wojo missed or passed on? I want to know. Let's have your evidence to back up your ironclad assertions

[jesmu84]

Bagpiping

No need to apologize. Hate myself for taking the bait on a stupid discussion. Wish I never challenged TAMU on his stating Wojo made Matt a better player.
To be honest, I do have a big chip on my shoulder regarding Matt. His first two months at MU he was bashed on here everyday. IMO he was the same player on his last day at MU as he was day one. Again, that is my belief.

It's your position that carlino was the same player when he got here and when he left? Even though his advanced stats significantly improved from his pre-mu days to his mu season? Your eye test must be remarkable.

[Lennys Tap]

Shhh...Goose knows things.

He does, actually. And he knows more about Matt Carlino than you or anyone else on the board. But keep it snarky...

[Goose]

Jesmu84

Your splitting hairs talking about improved numbers. In addition, a top grad transfer should have improved numbers. Matt had more turnovers, less assists and averaged 1.3 more points a game at MU. Hardly numbers that jump out as a different player.

And, for the record, my eye test is better than most.

[brewcity77]

Jesmu84

Your splitting hairs talking about improved numbers. In addition, a top grad transfer should have improved numbers. Matt had more turnovers, less assists and averaged 1.3 more points a game at MU. Hardly numbers that jump out as a different player.

And, for the record, my eye test is better than most.

Both Lockett and Reinhardt were top grad transfers that saw their scoring and eFG% drop. Both were top grad transfers, like Carlino.

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that Wojo's offensive system allowed him to be both more efficient and more productive when both are blatantly obvious?