NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18

[MUBurrow]

I was fine with that not being ruled a catch. He didn't finish the play. He had the ball in his hands with one knee down, but as the rest of him fell to the ground, his hands smacked against the ground and it came loose. I agree the rule is horrible and inconsistent - but I'd like to see it changed so that is never a catch, rather than always a catch.

Compare that against the Allison play - if the ball in Jesse James' hands had hit another player's helmet instead of his hands hitting the ground, should that play then have been a fumble? I would say of course not. But then when he hits the ground and loses the ball, it can't be a catch, either.

If he had been in the end zone, along the out of bounds line, and made the same play - if the knee lands in bounds, his hands hit the chalk and he bobbles, no catch. But if his hands hit the chalk and he doesn't bobble, because he got the knee down - and the knee is as good as two feet - its a TD.

[GGGG]

As a Lion's fan, if that had been ruled a catch for the Steelers, I would have thrown stuff at the TV, and I was rooting for the Steelers.    His hand came off of the ball as he landed.    Not a catch.   

I think everyone knows that by the rule it was a good call.  But the rule is bad.  For years that was a catch.  I mean, he had control of the ball when he crossed the line.

[wadesworld]

He made the catch and he reached the ball over the goal line. Whether it's a catch by rule or not, that absolutely is a catch. The ground did not aid him catching the football. He had already caught it.

[GGGG]

It's that going to the ground bullsh*t.  Why the standards are greater for a player going to the ground is unknown to me. 

[Hards Alumni]

That seemed a catch.  Dez Bryant's seemed a catch.  Calvin Johnson's seemed a catch.  It's hard to watch anymore. Someone on Youtube had a highlight reel of them and it is hard to understand.  For 70 years those were catches, and now because of replay they aren't and we get into things like did he make a football move or play.  Well, the guy isn't out there playing poker, every move he makes when the ball is snapped is a football move.

+1.

We're at the level of litigating football.

How perfectly American.

That's why its not fun anymore.

[WarriorInNYC]

The interesting part of this IMO is was there conclusive evidence that showed the ball hitting the ground?  I think it hit the ground, but can't tell if it did or not, or if his fingers were underneath that.

I do think that per the rule (which I do think is an idiotic rule), that that is not a catch, IF the ball hit the ground.  I just see anything there that could overturn the call on the field (same if they ruled it incomplete originally).

[Jockey]

+1.

We're at the level of litigating football.

How perfectly American.

That's why its not fun anymore.

It was inevitable once they instituted replay. Opens a whole new can of worms.

Same thing happened in baseball and football.

[naginiF]

It was inevitable once they instituted replay. Opens a whole new can of worms.

Same thing happened in baseball and football.

100% correct.

However, I find it extremely hypocritical that fans are complaining about replay reversals since the fans demanded replay review because the refs made errors.  It's the same logic that people use to say the NCAA tournament should've been expanded to 68 to eliminate the bubble issue or that the college football playoffs should be expanded to 8 teams to eliminate controversy.  People always complain when they are on the wrong side of a decision. 

[MU82]

We're at the level of litigating football.

How perfectly American.

That's why its not fun anymore.

The Brady "Tuck Rule" play was 16 years ago. It was litigated for years. Did football stop being fun then?

The Stabler "Holy Roller" intentional fumble was 39 years ago. It was litigated for years and immortalized in NFL Films. Did football stop being fun then?

The Butch Johnson catch/drop was 40 years ago. It was litigated for years and immortalized in NFL Films. Did football stop being fun then?

The Immacculate Reception was 45 years ago. It is still shown pretty regularly. Did football stop being fun then?

Yes, this whole "catch or no catch" thing is annoying and very inconsistently adjudicated. But controversial calls and controversial/stupid rules have been happening for decades in every sport.

With all that's going on with football - including, apparently, the Panthers' owner being a sexual abuser and racist - the catch/no catch thing is what makes it no fun?

[Hards Alumni]

The Brady "Tuck Rule" play was 16 years ago. It was litigated for years. Did football stop being fun then?

The Stabler "Holy Roller" intentional fumble was 39 years ago. It was litigated for years and immortalized in NFL Films. Did football stop being fun then?

The Butch Johnson catch/drop was 40 years ago. It was litigated for years and immortalized in NFL Films. Did football stop being fun then?

The Immacculate Reception was 45 years ago. It is still shown pretty regularly. Did football stop being fun then?

Yes, this whole "catch or no catch" thing is annoying and very inconsistently adjudicated. But controversial calls and controversial/stupid rules have been happening for decades in every sport.

With all that's going on with football - including, apparently, the Panthers' owner being a sexual abuser and racist - the catch/no catch thing is what makes it no fun?

Yeah but he's selling the team to make it all go away

[Dish]

Steratore used a piece of paper to determine a first down. I've now seen it all.

[Dish]

What a day for unlikeable NFL rules!

[Jockey]

With all that's going on with football - including, apparently, the Panthers' owner being a sexual abuser and racist - the catch/no catch thing is what makes it no fun?

It's not the only thing, but it is a part. The things you mentioned were just cleaning up issues. This has changed the game. Every marginal catch - and they occur every game - means a 5 minute shut down of play while the technical aspects are reviewed.

Baseball is doing the same thing with the double-play pivot and the tag at home. Completely unnecessary and destroying the intent of the game. Of course neither is a major thing, but the small issues add up. In the NFL, the small issues have run amok.

[MU82]

It's not the only thing, but it is a part. The things you mentioned were just cleaning up issues. This has changed the game. Every marginal catch - and they occur every game - means a 5 minute shut down of play while the technical aspects are reviewed.

Baseball is doing the same thing with the double-play pivot and the tag at home. Completely unnecessary and destroying the intent of the game. Of course neither is a major thing, but the small issues add up. In the NFL, the small issues have run amok.

Fair enough, brand. I just think there's always been something to complain about. This is just the complaint du jour!

I mean, look at the progress we've made. Just a couple months ago, players quietly protesting during the anthem were ruining football!

[JWags85]

What a day for unlikeable NFL rules!

At least the final ruling was clear cut.  Players really need to stop reaching for the pylon with one hand.   Its a stupid rule, but its got nothing on the catch rules.

Carr really needed to outduel Big Ben for title of "doing too much and blowing the game"

[Dr. Blackheart]

Fair enough, brand. I just think there's always been something to complain about. This is just the complaint du jour!

I mean, look at the progress we've made. Just a couple months ago, players quietly protesting during the anthem were ruining football!

The Goodell track record...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/roger-goodell-is-earning-plenty-to-be-nfl-commissioner-but-what-exactly-is-his-value/2017/12/17/be8883c4-e349-11e7-ab50-621fe0588340_story.html?utm_term=.3856b90842ce

[mu_hilltopper]

No offense, but you Packers fans are coming off as incredibly spoiled.
Your team has the second-best record in the NFL over the past decade. They've been to the playoffs 9 out of the past 10 seasons.
Your GM's lack of impact players drafted includes Aaron Rodgers, Jordy Nelson, Clay Matthews, David Bakhtiari and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, among others, all while drafting in the bottom third of every round more often than not.

You do realize that just about every fan base in the NFL outside of Boston and maybe Pittsburgh would trade places with you in a heartbeat?

This, so much this.  Man, after a few losses with Hundley, my Packer co-workers were insane, listing off all the coaches and GM to be fired, like the whole organization should be scrapped because the string of 8 straight playoff seasons might be over.

[Pakuni]

It's not the only thing, but it is a part. The things you mentioned were just cleaning up issues. This has changed the game. Every marginal catch - and they occur every game - means a 5 minute shut down of play while the technical aspects are reviewed.

Baseball is doing the same thing with the double-play pivot and the tag at home. Completely unnecessary and destroying the intent of the game. Of course neither is a major thing, but the small issues add up. In the NFL, the small issues have run amok.

Can't believe I'm going to defend Goddell here, but let's be fair ... the commissioner does not make the rules of play. In fact, he has almost zero say in the rules of play, other than seeing that they're enforced. That's the providence of first the Competition Committee, which writes the rules, and then the owners, who approve them.
The current Competition Committee is:
Rich McKay
John Mara
Stephen Jones
Mark Murphy
Ozzie Newsome
Rick Smith
Marvin Lewis
Mike Tomlin
Bruce Arians
John Elway
Sean Payton

So, if you think the rules suck - and many do - blame these guys.

[mu03eng]

It's that going to the ground bullsh*t.  Why the standards are greater for a player going to the ground is unknown to me.

And why are the standards different in the end zone than they are in the field of play (Allison's catch/fumble was called correctly but if it had been in the end zone it would have been incomplete - ya know complete the process crap).

I was listening to 540AM post-game driving home from a friend's house after the Packer game and Jason Wilde (Packers beat reporter for ESPN Milwaukee and State Journal) made a good point and used the Packer game as an example: If I can look at multiple "catches" an credibly argue that it's not a catch and that it is a catch at the same time then the rules aren't very good. The NFL has itemized the crap out of what is a catch and when you add in super slow motion reply nothing makes sense any more.

I do know this, after the Jerry Rice fumble that wasn't called in the NFC championship game I've been a huge proponent of reply.....this season has made me regret that position.

[MerrittsMustache]

And why are the standards different in the end zone than they are in the field of play (Allison's catch/fumble was called correctly but if it had been in the end zone it would have been incomplete - ya know complete the process crap).

Nope, if he was in the end zone, it would have been a TD because he had possession. He didn't need to "survive the ground."

What's interesting is that James didn't "survive the ground" so it's ruled incomplete, yet Golden Tate has this ball for a split second in the end zone and is given a TD...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap3000000559571/Can-t-Miss-Play-Golden-Tate-s-wacky-touchdown

[GGGG]

I am a proponent of replay, but I am also a proponent of simplification - like the college rule.  Retain control and get two feet down.  The Pittsburgh TE had control of the ball, got a knee down, had control of the ball when he brought it over the line.  Touchdown.

[mu03eng]

Nope, if he was in the end zone, it would have been a TD because he had possession. He didn't need to "survive the ground."

What's interesting is that James didn't "survive the ground" so it's ruled incomplete, yet Golden Tate has this ball for a split second in the end zone and is given a TD...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap3000000559571/Can-t-Miss-Play-Golden-Tate-s-wacky-touchdown

Disagree, it would have been the Megatron thing as he was going to the ground and you have to complete the process.

[jsglow]

This, so much this.  Man, after a few losses with Hundley, my Packer co-workers were insane, listing off all the coaches and GM to be fired, like the whole organization should be scrapped because the string of 8 straight playoff seasons might be over.

I think more astute Packers fans are simply acknowledging that some fairly deep flaws had been masked by having one of the best NFL players at QB and that some changes are necessary.

[GGGG]

Deadspin has the catch rule from 1982 quotes here. So much simpler and straight forward.

http://deadsp.in/pUvYLNB

[mu03eng]

I think more astute Packers fans are simply acknowledging that some fairly deep flaws had been masked by having one of the best NFL players at QB and that some changes are necessary.

I get that a lot of fanbases would like to be in the Packers shoes, but by the same time I think there is a legitimate argument that the front office and coaching staff have underperformed in the last 10 years. The NFL is a quarterback driven league and the Packers have had once in a generation quarterbacks for over 20 years now and have 3 Superbowl appearances and 2 Superbowl titles to show for it. Yes there are all sorts of mitigating circumstances like injuries, but every team has those and still teams like Pittsburgh and New England continue to make the playoffs and make Superbowl appearances. The Packer organization has significantly under supported the Rodgers era and we now have plenty of evidence that this team is average to below average without Rodgers.