NM

[rocket surgeon]

Agree totally, Crash. Those who want to judge people from 150, 250 or 2000 years ago without context sadden me. Their moral high horses are unwarranted, IMHO.

thank you for this.  one more time-if one isn't taught history properly, all context is lost.  you cannot judge events, actions, with today's value system.   coca cola used to be classified as a medicine containing real cocaine, smoking used to be cool, drinking beer on the assembly line was allowed, thepyramids were built using slaves(gasp!!) etc. etc.  put all these and countless others in to context today and wtf?? 'ey?

[rocket surgeon]

"Judging without context?"  They were judged AT THE TIME.  And lost a war because of it.

after how many years?  then we fixed it, but sadly, slavery is still going on all around the world in some form or another.  who sold some of the original slaves in their homeland? 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Thoughts on Taco Bell Baja sauce?

Nothing better for my once a decade gordita - but I hear it's been removed the menu.

[GGGG]

after how many years?  then we fixed it, but sadly, slavery is still going on all around the world in some form or another.  who sold some of the original slaves in their homeland? 

???

Slavery was judged wrong by the majority of western civilization in the 1860s.  Many people recognized it as such.  This isn't just some issue of "context." The country elected a President who ran on an anti-slavery platform, from a party whose creation centered around anti-slavery.

If some town in the south is recognizing the local boy who was killed in the Civil War, then fine.  But the many Jefferson Davis monuments?  Robert E. Lee memorials?  Nope.

[tower912]

after how many years?  then we fixed it, but sadly, slavery is still going on all around the world in some form or another.  who sold some of the original slaves in their homeland?

None of this makes it right.  Do you still defend ancient dental practices that you know are wrong, even if they are still being used in some backwater country?   Or do you try to learn from them and make them a cautionary tale, not something to be celebrated?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

There was nothing improper about the Annexation of Hawaii.  The prior Kingdom was run in a ruthless and bloody fashion.  It all ended up very well for the Hawaiians as they became part of the United States.

Yes. There is nothing wrong with foreign businessmen holding a monarch at gunpoint and forcing the monarch to sign a new constitution that strips voting rights away from native Hawaiians and transfers all the power to the non-native plantation owners. 

[forgetful]

Speaking of fast food breakfast, don't sleep on Taco Bell. Fantastic items there.

Tell me more about this Taco Bell breakfast.  Recommendations?  Sauce, no sauce? 

[real chili 83]

This is a really slippery slope. How about all the lands we stole from Native Americans. We wiped out entire populations.  Just saying this is a slippery slope.

Cooked up 8 racks of ribs this week at work on a Traeger. First exposure to this grill/smoker. I hear Green Mountain is very similar in design and function, but a lower price point. Anyone use either?

[brewcity77]

Robert E Lee was opposed to Confederate monuments, and no one at his funeral wore Confederate uniforms because he believed it would foster divisiveness. Clearly he was right.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4800978/Confederate-General-Robert-E-Lee-opposed-monuments.html

Anyone who cares about honoring Lee is full of crap if they don't want ALL Confederate monuments torn down.

[tower912]

General Lee was remarkably prescient, if this story is accurate.

[rocket surgeon]

None of this makes it right.  Do you still defend ancient dental practices that you know are wrong, even if they are still being used in some backwater country?   Or do you try to learn from them and make them a cautionary tale, not something to be celebrated?

we aren't saying it's right, it's what they knew and what was accepted by many

do i still defend ancient dental practices...i never did.  but here's a great example-when i first got out of school, wearing gloves was kinda optional.  my dad practiced bare handed dentistry for 25+ years.  so, by today's standards, that's crazy wrong.  by the standards in place leading up to the 1980's, bare handed dentistry, for lack of better term, met the standard of care.  you tell a new dental grad today about this and he/she thinks we were paleolithic. 

[MomofMUltiples]

This is a really slippery slope. How about all the lands we stole from Native Americans. We wiped out entire populations.  Just saying this is a slippery slope.

Cooked up 8 racks of ribs this week at work on a Traeger. First exposure to this grill/smoker. I hear Green Mountain is very similar in design and function, but a lower price point. Anyone use either?

We have a traeger and use it weekly. The Traeger pellets are crap, though; full of filler. We get pellets from a place in Eden Prairie - split a pallet with three other friends who own smokers.

[4everwarriors]

It's da only latex/non-latex I feel good 'bout wearin', ai na?

[real chili 83]

We have a traeger and use it weekly. The Traeger pellets are crap, though; full of filler. We get pellets from a place in Eden Prairie - split a pallet with three other friends who own smokers.

What brand of pellets do you get?

[Lennys Tap]

None of this makes it right.  Do you still defend ancient dental practices that you know are wrong, even if they are still being used in some backwater country?   Or do you try to learn from them and make them a cautionary tale, not something to be celebrated?

Nobody is against progress. Certainly we wouldn't use dental practices from hundreds of years ago. But dentists back then shouldn't be vilified either.

[rocket surgeon]

It's da only latex/non-latex I feel good 'bout wearin', ai na?

   only you warrior-now that is funny right there man!!  check out the lamb skin for endo for
that extra tactile sense, der ayn'er?

[GooooMarquette]

Nobody is against progress. Certainly we wouldn't use dental practices from hundreds of years ago. But dentists back then shouldn't be vilified either.

I promise only to vilify dentists from hundreds of years ago if they committed treason....

[Lennys Tap]

I promise only to vilify dentists from hundreds of years ago if they committed treason....

Hundreds of those treasonous pieces of garbage are buried in Arlington National Cemetery. How many of them were charged, convicted and executed? Let's do it 162 years later - sounds fair to me!

[Herman Cain]

Yes. There is nothing wrong with foreign businessmen holding a monarch at gunpoint and forcing the monarch to sign a new constitution that strips voting rights away from native Hawaiians and transfers all the power to the non-native plantation owners. 

Nice try at revisionist history. The reality is the US gave recognition to the Kingdom of Hawaii which ultimately led to countries all over the world recognizing Hawaii. This was done to protect American Interests versus European interests at the time.  Over time there were various internecine  battles among the Hawaiians which led to a circumstance which threatened  to disenfranchise the US Interests.  The US then flip flopped back and forth on various Hawaiian regime  change . Recognizing that they could not sustain independent status any longer the Hawaiians moved toward annexation.  Today the decedents of the original  Hawaiian benefit from a very large educational trust created by those original business interests. No ones culture or way of life was changed.

[GooooMarquette]

Hundreds of those treasonous pieces of garbage are buried in Arlington National Cemetery. How many of them were charged, convicted and executed? Let's do it 162 years later - sounds fair to me!

Are you questioning whether they actually took up arms against the United States?  Talk about trying to rewrite history...

[GooooMarquette]

Speaking of the eclipse – does everybody have their ISO certified glasses?

[forgetful]

Hundreds of those treasonous pieces of garbage are buried in Arlington National Cemetery. How many of them were charged, convicted and executed? Let's do it 162 years later - sounds fair to me!

I really do not want to enter this debate.  But, they did commit treason.  They were then pardoned by President Johnson. Many were required to pledge an Oath to the US to obtain the pardon.

There is no debate on whether they committed treason or not.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Nice try at revisionist history. The reality is the US gave recognition to the Kingdom of Hawaii which ultimately led to countries all over the world recognizing Hawaii. This was done to protect American Interests versus European interests at the time.  Over time there were various internecine  battles among the Hawaiians which led to a circumstance which threatened  to disenfranchise the US Interests.  The US then flip flopped back and forth on various Hawaiian regime  change . Recognizing that they could not sustain independent status any longer the Hawaiians moved toward annexation.  Today the decedents of the original  Hawaiian benefit from a very large educational trust created by those original business interests. No ones culture or way of life was changed.

So again, a bunch of foreign businessmen held a monarch at gunpoint and forced him to sign a constitution that transferred all of the voting rights away from native Hawaiians to the foreign plantation owners. But its okay because it protected American interests over European interests.

That sounds like the same garbage argument as "Slavery was actually great for black people, if we didn't do it, they would be stuck in Africa right now!"

[real chili 83]

So again, a bunch of foreign businessmen held a monarch at gunpoint and forced him to sign a constitution that transferred all of the voting rights away from native Hawaiians to the foreign plantation owners. But its okay because it protected American interests over European interests.

That sounds like the same garbage argument as "Slavery was actually great for black people, if we didn't do it, they would be stuck in Africa right now!"

Gosh, we better give Hawaii back, and while we are at it, we should give back North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, and the Ohio Valley.

I had two Pink Ladies yesterday.  Nice and tart.

[GGGG]

Gosh, we better give Hawaii back, and while we are at it, we should give back North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, and the Ohio Valley.

No one is saying that. Just that we shouldn't continue to whitewash American history.