Questions For Those Who Watched On TV

[TallTitan34]

At the Bradley Center they stopped showing replays as the crowd was getting hot so there's a few things you may have seen better at home.

1) What happened at the end where Nova essentially got a free timeout?  I assume they just started the clock too early when the Nova guy reached down for the ball but didn't actually touch it, however, the time they added back on the clock didn't seem to make sense for that to be the case.

2) There were three box out fouls on Marquette on what appeared to be over the back on Nova each time.  What did the replays show?  Were they saying the Marquette players slid under the Nova player while they jumped for the ball?  Rowsey could be seen saying "what do you want me to do" over and over. 

3) Was Raft going crazy?  That's my guy!

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

[BallBoy]

1.  Yes.  When Brunson faked grabbing the ball they started the clock. He grabbed at and started to move. He yelled at the refs for the lost time so they stopped to review. They then tracked the time from when he grabbed it to whistle blown and moved the out of bounds to dead ball location.
2.  Depending on the call but yes typically the case. MU was sliding under or backing under the player as they were going up.
3.  most of the game no but when we tied it he was getting excited

[TallTitan34]

Thanks!

[Boozemon Barro]

1. Yeah clock operator and ref botched the play. Never really understood why it took so long and why 10.4 was put back on instead of 11.6, but whatever.

2. I thought all three were horrible calls. Raf and Brando called them good calls, which seemed ridiculous to me. I don't see how a smaller guy could ever legally block out a bigger guy if that's how it's enforced.

3. Raf was openly trying to cheer on Marquette most of the game I thought.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

At the Bradley Center they stopped showing replays as the crowd was getting hot so there's a few things you may have seen better at home.

1) What happened at the end where Nova essentially got a free timeout?  I assume they just started the clock too early when the Nova guy reached down for the ball but didn't actually touch it, however, the time they added back on the clock didn't seem to make sense for that to be the case.

2) There were three box out fouls on Marquette on what appeared to be over the back on Nova each time.  What did the replays show?  Were they saying the Marquette players slid under the Nova player while they jumped for the ball?  Rowsey could be seen saying "what do you want me to do" over and over. 

3) Was Raft going crazy?  That's my guy!

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

They never explained the 10.4, i can only assume they judged he had the ball for 1 sec before the ref blew the whistle?

Raft said the one on Rowsey was a foul cuz he kept rooting him out.  They discussed the other two but were not difinitive.

Were very compkementary if mu and their fight n of course disvussed the previous meltdowns, were baffled my MuS misses at the line n raft went so far as to call luke "psychologically impaired"

Gave mu credit on a number of ocassions for hanging in there throught the game

[MomofMUltiples]

Someone else can comment on the box-outs (seemed like bad calls to me), but here is my take on the end of game clock: when Nova threw the ball in, Brunson let it roll a little, leaned down to grab it but didn't actually touch it.  The ref started the clock erroneously thinking Brunson had touched the ball.  However, in the course of the play it did appear that the ball bounced off of Brunson's leg, which is when the clock should have been started.  I believe that the difference between the 11 or so seconds on the clock and the 10.4 that was put back on the clock (at teh sideline throw-in) was the amount of time that the clock should have been running once his body touched the ball.

[drewm88]

At the Bradley Center they stopped showing replays as the crowd was getting hot so there's a few things you may have seen better at home.

1) What happened at the end where Nova essentially got a free timeout?  I assume they just started the clock too early when the Nova guy reached down for the ball but didn't actually touch it, however, the time they added back on the clock didn't seem to make sense for that to be the case.

2) There were three box out fouls on Marquette on what appeared to be over the back on Nova each time.  What did the replays show?  Were they saying the Marquette players slid under the Nova player while they jumped for the ball?  Rowsey could be seen saying "what do you want me to do" over and over. 

3) Was Raft going crazy?  That's my guy!

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

1. Clock started before Brunson touched the ball.

2. Rowsey and Howard fouls were basically (IMO) because they were sliding under the Nova guy. Soft calls but not terrible. Third one on JJJ was because he held the arm. Definitely the right call.

3. Not over the top, but what you would hope for in this situation, Marquette or not. What struck me is how they kept praising Katin, Wilson, and Hauser for the comeback. They seemed to value Hauser's one 3 almost as much as the other two guys.

[TallTitan34]

Someone else can comment on the box-outs (seemed like bad calls to me), but here is my take on the end of game clock: when Nova threw the ball in, Brunson let it roll a little, leaned down to grab it but didn't actually touch it.  The ref started the clock erroneously thinking Brunson had touched the ball.  However, in the course of the play it did appear that the ball bounced off of Brunson's leg, which is when the clock should have been started.  I believe that the difference between the 11 or so seconds on the clock and the 10.4 that was put back on the clock (at teh sideline throw-in) was the amount of time that the clock should have been running once his body touched the ball.

Yeah I was expecting them to put 11.6 up so I couldn't figure out the 10.4.  That makes sense though.

[MerrittsMustache]

1.  Yes.  When Brunson faked grabbing the ball they started the clock. He grabbed at and started to move. He yelled at the refs for the lost time so they stopped to review. They then tracked the time from when he grabbed it to whistle blown and moved the out of bounds to dead ball location.
2.  Depending on the call but yes typically the case. MU was sliding under or backing under the player as they were going up.
3.  most of the game no but when we tied it he was getting excited

Given that move and Brunson's immediate reaction to the time, what are the odds that's a strategy via Wright? It's worth a shot to try to fool the clock operator and get a free timeout.

It may seem far-fetched but most successful college bball coaches are constantly searching for every little detail to get them an advantage so it wouldn't surprise me.

[Bocephys]

Given that move and Brunson's immediate reaction to the time, what are the odds that's a strategy via Wright? It's worth a shot to try to fool the clock operator and get a free timeout.

It may seem far-fetched but most successful college bball coaches are constantly searching for every little detail to get them an advantage so it wouldn't surprise me.

One of the announcers noted that's exactly the type of thing Wojo would have done during his playing days and called it a crafty play.

[T-Bone]

Announcers kept saying that the building was getting randy or something like that. 

[brewcity77]

Announcers kept saying that the building was getting randy or something like that.

[GooooMarquette]

Someone else can comment on the box-outs (seemed like bad calls to me), but here is my take on the end of game clock: when Nova threw the ball in, Brunson let it roll a little, leaned down to grab it but didn't actually touch it.  The ref started the clock erroneously thinking Brunson had touched the ball.  However, in the course of the play it did appear that the ball bounced off of Brunson's leg, which is when the clock should have been started.  I believe that the difference between the 11 or so seconds on the clock and the 10.4 that was put back on the clock (at teh sideline throw-in) was the amount of time that the clock should have been running once his body touched the ball.

I think that was the explanation...but I think the right call would have been to recognize that the correctable error (starting the clock) occurred before Brunson ever touched the ball.  IMO they should have given Nova the ball back under our hoop with the 11+ seconds left. 

[Benny B]

Given that move and Brunson's immediate reaction to the time, what are the odds that's a strategy via Wright? It's worth a shot to try to fool the clock operator and get a free timeout.

It may seem far-fetched but most successful college bball coaches are constantly searching for every little detail to get them an advantage so it wouldn't surprise me.

My first thought was something along the lines of "hogwash," but thinking about it, I definitely agree that a coach may teach that "move" to his team.  The downside is that with only 10 seconds on the clock, you run the chance of wasting half of it arguing with the ref if he doesn't blow the whistle; worse yet, if the clock doesn't start and you make another "fake" attempt (the ball is still rolling), you run a much greater risk of a T/O or jumpball.

In short, it has to be executed very precisely otherwise it's more likely to backfire than to work.  That said, if it was a deliberate move, it had to come from above, and I could see Jay trying to pull it off.  But Nova has admitted they have several end-of-game/length-of-court plays they go over every day in practice... so if any team doesn't need to call a timeout to know exactly what play they're going to run in that situation, it's Nova.

Truth be told, I was watching Jenkins the entire time.  I could have sworn that's what they were going to do... in retrospect, if MU was to lose the game on a late 3 by Jenkins, I suppose I could've lived with that.  Thankfully, I won't.

[MattyWarrior]

Both of the announcers called it pretty square, not one-sided at all. Raf talked a little about Wojo
as a player and what kind of team he was trying to build, one of the better game calls this year.

[injuryBug]

I did not like the box out calls.  I thought the Nova players on 2 of them jumped early in order to draw the foul.  Neither time did I see Rowsy or Howard back in after they made contact and stayed engaged.  They were not the first one off the floor was the penalty basically.

[CrowdOf5]

I'm no rules expert but I do recall the announcers speaking of how the players were using the posteriors to box out by pushing into the Nova players with them. So i went to the rule book:

Section 29. Rebound
Art. 1. A rebound occurs when a player secures control of the ball after a try
for goal. In a rebounding situation, there is no player or team control.
Art. 2. To establish or maintain legal rebounding position, a player shall not:
a. Displace, charge or push an opponent.
b. Extend either or both shoulders, hips, knees or extend either or both
arms or elbows fully or partially in a position other than vertical so that
the freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered when contact
with any of these body parts occurs.
c. Bend his body in an abnormal position to hold or displace an opponent.
d. Violate the principle of verticality

So i assume they were using their "hips" too much when boxing out by pushing back into the Nova players. Never really see it called though.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/BR17.pdf

edited to add in link

[Benny B]

I'm no rules expert but I do recall the announcers speaking of how the players were using the posteriors to box out by pushing into the Nova players with them. So i went to the rule book:

Section 29. Rebound
Art. 1. A rebound occurs when a player secures control of the ball after a try
for goal. In a rebounding situation, there is no player or team control.
Art. 2. To establish or maintain legal rebounding position, a player shall not:
a. Displace, charge or push an opponent.
b. Extend either or both shoulders, hips, knees or extend either or both
arms or elbows fully or partially in a position other than vertical so that
the freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered when contact
with any of these body parts occurs.
c. Bend his body in an abnormal position to hold or displace an opponent.
d. Violate the principle of verticality

So i assume they were using their "hips" too much when boxing out by pushing back into the Nova players. Never really see it called though.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/BR17.pdf

edited to add in link

How does one not named Rick Astley "extend either or both shoulders"?

[CrowdOf5]

How does one not named Rick Astley "extend either or both shoulders"?

wonder if they mean dip or lead into the players body with your shoulder? No clue how you would do with both 

[radome]

I did not like the box out calls.  I thought the Nova players on 2 of them jumped early in order to draw the foul.  Neither time did I see Rowsy or Howard back in after they made contact and stayed engaged.  They were not the first one off the floor was the penalty basically.

Those of you that played/coached at a high enough level, help me out here. I played relatively good baseball (not pro); high enough that I understood and appreciated the unwritten rules. It seems to this peaked at HS basketball guy, that a box out, even with a step back would equate to over the back on the incoming opponent even if the "rule book" says you backed into him. Is that off the mark?

[mileskishnish72]

You know, years ago, there would be a 5-sec. call if the inbounder didn't get it to a teammate in that time period. Something must have changed in the rules (or their interpretation) because for years now we've seen teams that are behind let the ball roll up to not use clock. Anyone know anything definitive on this?

[radome]

You know, years ago, there would be a 5-sec. call if the inbounder didn't get it to a teammate in that time period. Something must have changed in the rules (or their interpretation) because for years now we've seen teams that are behind let the ball roll up to not use clock. Anyone know anything definitive on this?

Rule changed from 5 seconds to received ball to 5 secs to inbound ball, i.e., released by throw in.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Don't know why HC let the outlet pass roll downcourt and give Nova precious seconds
Hope they address that for the next time
As for the fouls on MH and Rowsey, seems punitive on little guys and 50/50 over the back
Glad Hauser was in position for that last rebound

[StillAWarrior]

One of the announcers noted that's exactly the type of thing Wojo would have done during his playing days and called it a crafty play.

I interpreted that only to mean that Wojo would have noticed that the clock started before he touched the ball; not that he would have done that intentionally to get the extra time out.  I'd have to hear it again to decide if he might have been talking about it in a more strategic way.

[Spotcheck Billy]

3) Raf did make some comment at the end about Al watching from above or something like that.