Questions For Those Who Watched On TV

[CrowdOf5]

3) Raf did make some comment at the end about Al watching from above or something like that.

Yes and he gave the "seashells and balloons" line.

[rocky_warrior]

Those of you that played/coached at a high enough level, help me out here. I played relatively good baseball (not pro); high enough that I understood and appreciated the unwritten rules. It seems to this peaked at HS basketball guy, that a box out, even with a step back would equate to over the back on the incoming opponent even if the "rule book" says you backed into him. Is that off the mark?

I'm less knowledgeable than you, but the rule says to maintain verticality and, not displace the opponent.  Meaning to box out you must get to your spot first, stay vertical, and not cause movement of your opponent.   Sounds fair, but I'd guess "displacement" is often achieved without being called a foul.  That's what is crappy about those calls on the little guys.

[mayfairskatingrink]

1. Yeah clock operator and ref botched the play. Never really understood why it took so long and why 10.4 was put back on instead of 11.6, but whatever.

2. I thought all three were horrible calls. Raf and Brando called them good calls, which seemed ridiculous to me. I don't see how a smaller guy could ever legally block out a bigger guy if that's how it's enforced.

3. Raf was openly trying to cheer on Marquette most of the game I thought.

Raf and Brando were really pro-MU for much of the broadcast, imo.  Raf seemed to sincerely want MU to make a game of it, and see the program rise again.

[tower912]

The box out rules have changed.  What MH and AR did used to be legal.

[jesmu84]

Yes and he gave the "seashells and balloons" line.

https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/824093496978051074

[Loose Cannon]

  Raf was very surprised that AL never beat a #1 ranked Team.

[BallBoy]

Given that move and Brunson's immediate reaction to the time, what are the odds that's a strategy via Wright? It's worth a shot to try to fool the clock operator and get a free timeout.

It may seem far-fetched but most successful college bball coaches are constantly searching for every little detail to get them an advantage so it wouldn't surprise me.

My personal opinion is they intended to do that to get the MU defender to back up. HC was up close and as soon as he thought Brunson got the ball he backed out. When Brunson didn't grab it, the clock should not have started and allowed the ball to go further down the court. Great strategy unfortunately it confused the shot clock operator just like the faked out HC and caused the refs to review. Nova got a Timeout which I think was the unplanned part of but an ancillary benefit.

[MUMountin]

The box out rules have changed.  What MH and AR did used to be legal.

My sense is that this must have been an emphasis for these refs--which is why it was called three times on us.  My guess is that it is to encourage the inside player to still go up for the rebound, not just clear out.  I'm guessing that if our smaller guys had just gone up for the rebound, a few of those might have actually flipped to over-the-back calls that we were all looking for--want to see players going for the ball.

On the other hand, I think that some of that might have finally flipped in our favor when Duane got fouled getting that rebound at the top of the key which sent him to the line to take the first lead.  While the Nova player did make some contact, I was surprised that was called a foul in that context given the way they were generally letting players play.  The difference in that case was that Duane went up strong for the rebound, which I think helped the ref to call the foul on Nova's aggressiveness. 

[rocket surgeon]

My personal opinion is they intended to do that to get the MU defender to back up. HC was up close and as soon as he thought Brunson got the ball he backed out. When Brunson didn't grab it, the clock should not have started and allowed the ball to go further down the court. Great strategy unfortunately it confused the shot clock operator just like the faked out HC and caused the refs to review. Nova got a Timeout which I think was the unplanned part of but an ancillary benefit.

Ive got to give you a big "atta boy" right there as I was thinking the same thing.

[Benny B]

My personal opinion is they intended to do that to get the MU defender to back up. HC was up close and as soon as he thought Brunson got the ball he backed out. When Brunson didn't grab it, the clock should not have started and allowed the ball to go further down the court. Great strategy unfortunately it confused the shot clock operator just like the faked out HC and caused the refs to review. Nova got a Timeout which I think was the unplanned part of but an ancillary benefit.

Shot clock operator had nothing to do with it.  Refs start the clock from the floor.

[Newsdreams]

Someone else can comment on the box-outs (seemed like bad calls to me), but here is my take on the end of game clock: when Nova threw the ball in, Brunson let it roll a little, leaned down to grab it but didn't actually touch it.  The ref started the clock erroneously thinking Brunson had touched the ball.  However, in the course of the play it did appear that the ball bounced off of Brunson's leg, which is when the clock should have been started.  I believe that the difference between the 11 or so seconds on the clock and the 10.4 that was put back on the clock (at teh sideline throw-in) was the amount of time that the clock should have been running once his body touched the ball.

Mom know best!

[Newsdreams]

On those rebounding fouls, they explained the problem was our guys kept backing up even as the rebounder jumped in the air and they ended up undercutting rebounder thus a foul. They should have either held their position or gone up for the rebound.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Thought that refs picked on Marcus by calling fouls when he was breathing on players.  Very tacky.

[MUCrew]

On those rebounding fouls, they explained the problem was our guys kept backing up even as the rebounder jumped in the air and they ended up undercutting rebounder thus a foul. They should have either held their position or gone up for the rebound.

This.  Our guys never went up for the rebound and thus was looked at as undercutting. 

[BrewCity83]

  Raf was very surprised that AL never beat a #1 ranked Team.

It's impossible to beat a #1 team when you are the #1 team.

[g0lden3agle]

How can a guy like Markus Howard ever get a heavily contested rebound if he's forced to jump when the opponent does to avoid getting called for a foul?  The whole point of the box out is to allow someone like Markus to clear a guy that's taller than him out of the play.  If that player chooses to jump over Markus to get the rebound that should be an over the back foul.

[brewcity77]

How can a guy like Markus Howard ever get a heavily contested rebound if he's forced to jump when the opponent does to avoid getting called for a foul?  The whole point of the box out is to allow someone like Markus to clear a guy that's taller than him out of the play.  If that player chooses to jump over Markus to get the rebound that should be an over the back foul.

That's what was so frustrating about that stretch of play. It felt like even when our guys did things right, they were wrong.

[MUMountin]

How can a guy like Markus Howard ever get a heavily contested rebound if he's forced to jump when the opponent does to avoid getting called for a foul?  The whole point of the box out is to allow someone like Markus to clear a guy that's taller than him out of the play.  If that player chooses to jump over Markus to get the rebound that should be an over the back foul.

I think the point is that (in theory at least) the Nova players were not jumping over Markus/Rowsey, they were jumping straight up, and our guards went under them.  If our players went straight up for the ball too with inside position, that should force the outside player to enter their space to contest the rebound, creating an over-the-back call. 

It just seemed like the refs were really emphasizing that they weren't going to allow us to only box out without actually going up for the rebound.  Regardless of whether it is right or not, we should have adjusted after the first time or two that this happened, and hopefully it is a good teaching lesson for the future if a ref crew calls it the same way.

[oldwarrior81]

  Raf was very surprised that AL never beat a #1 ranked Team.

You have to remember between about 1965 and 1975 UCLA was ranked #1 almost every week, and there losses were few and far between.   I think they had 5 total losses over a seven year stretch.

[g0lden3agle]

It just seemed like the refs were really emphasizing that they weren't going to allow us to only box out without actually going up for the rebound.  Regardless of whether it is right or not, we should have adjusted after the first time or two that this happened, and hopefully it is a good teaching lesson for the future if a ref crew calls it the same way.

very good point here.  We can sit here and debate whether or not those were the right calls, but the fact of the matter is they were called that way and hopefully our guys will learn from it and be ready for it in the future.

[MUMountin]

very good point here.

Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.

[wadesworld]

I hope our guys continue to box out like that going forward. We aren't going to be outjumping teams or simply be taller than teams. Need to clear guys out to get the rebound. I hope Wojo is on film applauding them.

[CTWarrior]

Don't know why HC let the outlet pass roll downcourt and give Nova precious seconds
Hope they address that for the next time
As for the fouls on MH and Rowsey, seems punitive on little guys and 50/50 over the back
Glad Hauser was in position for that last rebound

I imagine HC let the ball roll because he didn't want to challenge and let Brunson get past him and give Nova a numbers advantage.
I thought the fouls were legit, but basically when you have two guys leaning on each other and one jumps for the ball, the other guy is naturally going to back into him because the resistance is gone.  Need to get off the ground quicker.
FWIW, I watched the game again and we got killed on the defensive glass, but as soon as Fischer left the game and we went with Hauser, Cheatham, Reinhardt, Wilson and JJJ we got 8 out of 10 defensive rebounds, though we gave up the put back to Hart at 72-70.  Cheatham especially was solid rebounding down the stretch.

[We R Final Four]

Both of the announcers called it pretty square, not one-sided at all. Raf talked a little about Wojo
as a player and what kind of team he was trying to build, one of the better game calls this year.

After watching on replay--I agree.

However, this has to be at least the 3rd time that I have heard Brando call #23 JuJaun Jackson. Reminds me every time of Len Elmore calling Lazar.......Haywood.

[Loose Cannon]

You have to remember between about 1965 and 1975 UCLA was ranked #1 almost every week, and there losses were few and far between.   I think they had 5 total losses over a seven year stretch.

  Thanks, that explains a lot.