NBA '17

[MUEng92]

I hated the Bad Boys Pistons with a passion but I would love to see the current Cavs team play them under the Pistons era rules.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I hated the Bad Boys Pistons with a passion but I would love to see the current Cavs team play them under the Pistons era rules.

That makes two of us. It'd be a whole other world for LeBron.

I'd also love to have seen Jordan in an era when handchecking wasn't allowed.

[forgetful]

My takeaway from the two game 7's. The winning teams didn't do anything really to win.

The losing teams just played horrendous basketball and missed an ungodly number of open 3's. 

Apparently Houston watched the game last night and thought to themselves, you think that was a terrible 3-point shooting display by the Celtics...hold our beers.

Ugly.

[brewcity77]

37% is likely?

At age 26? Yes. Only one other player that is 26 or younger has odds that are higher than 8% (Anthony Davis, 25 y/o). The next 26 or younger player is Kahwi Leonard at 7%. Compared to players his age, Irving's odds aren't just high, they are astronomically, ridiculously, five times more than anyone else,  so.

[tower912]

I hated the Bad Boys Pistons with a passion but I would love to see the current Cavs team play them under the Pistons era rules.

I loved those Pistons teams.     LbJ is such a physical force.    Rodman, Agguire, Salley would guard him.    Help defense from Laimbeer, Mahorn, Edwards.   The Cavaliers don't have enough 3 pt shooters to stop the help defense.     I think the Pistons, playing under the 80's/90's officiating, would be OK against the Cavaliers.   Golden State, I have my doubts.   So many 3 pt shooters that help would be negated.    Laimbeer, Mahorn, and Edwards were too slow to guard anyone on the GS on the perimeter.    Yes, the other 6, Thomas, Dumars, Johnson, Agguire, Rodman, and Salley, would have a chance defensively, if they were allowed to handcheck on the perimeter.   

[brewcity77]

Yes, the same Hall of Fame Jordan is also a member of.  Kukoc is a candidate for the NBA HOF, too.  Unfortunately he played his first 8 years of professional ball overseas, and that will hurt him for his candidacy in the NBA.

You're kidding, right? Never averaged 20 ppg, never made an all-star team, career averages of 11.6/4.2/3.7, he has zero shot of making the NBA HOF. Even if you only look at the time he spent in Chicago when he was in his prime (age 25-31) he averaged 14.1/4.8/4.2. Decent numbers, but not close to HOF numbers.

[MUBBau]

Finals wins vs team with 70+ wins: Lebron 1, Jordan 0. Checkmate

[GGGG]

Agreed it's not as simple as just record, but no matter what league you are in if you're 64-18 you're a pretty dang good team. The Spurs were at the end of their dynasty that year. They were obviously as well coached and disciplined as they come, and they obviously had talent. But they were old. And the Sonics and Jazz teams the Bulls were beating were very good teams.

So the Spurs team was "at the end of its dynasty," but they won the rematch the very next year?

Sorry, but that Sonics team was nowhere near as good as you are portraying it.  In fact I think the Suns team with Barkley was better than they were.  The Jazz teams were good, but I think the case can be made the of the teams LBJ and MJ have beaten in the Finals, the Warriors and the Spurs were the top two.  I would rank them:

1. Warriors
2. Spurs
3. Jazz
4. Suns
5. Thunder
6. Sonics
7. Blazers
8. Lakers

[Pakuni]

The MJ vs LeBron debate will never stop being stupid.

[wadesworld]

So the Spurs team was "at the end of its dynasty," but they won the rematch the very next year?

Sorry, but that Sonics team was nowhere near as good as you are portraying it.  In fact I think the Suns team with Barkley was better than they were.  The Jazz teams were good, but I think the case can be made the of the teams LBJ and MJ have beaten in the Finals, the Warriors and the Spurs were the top two.  I would rank them:

1. Warriors
2. Spurs
3. Jazz
4. Suns
5. Thunder
6. Sonics
7. Blazers
8. Lakers

We were talking about who LBJ's two losses were to with the Heat.  I said the Spurs were at the end of their dynasty because they won that Title and since then have been to 1 Conference Finals and 0 NBA Finals.

[MerrittsMustache]

Here's my admittedly ridiculous "hot take" on LeBron...

While LeBron obviously wants to win championships, he recognizes that it has been better for his reputation to carry average Cavs teams through the (mediocre) Eastern Conference as opposed to winning another couple of titles playing along side the likes of Wade and Bosh.

Think of it this way, if the Cavs had added Chris Paul and a healthy Gordon Hayward this summer (salary cap be damned!), would LBJ be getting all the love that he's getting for going back to the Finals? No! The pressure would all be on LeBron since he built a "super team" that needs to beat Golden State in order to validate themselves. There's no pressure on LeBron/Cleveland in the Finals right now. They're an average team with one of the greatest players in history. Everyone expects them to lose. If the supporting cast was upgraded, the best player on the planet would be expected to carry them to victory. Instead, he's heaped with praise simply for getting them to the Finals. Even if Boston had won the ECF, no one would be blaming LeBron. He knows this and it's a no lose situation for him.

OK, OK. I don't necessarily believe that but it's interesting to think about, right?

End of ridiculousness.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Here's my admittedly ridiculous "hot take" on LeBron...

While LeBron obviously wants to win championships, he recognizes that it has been better for his reputation to carry average Cavs teams through the (mediocre) Eastern Conference as opposed to winning another couple of titles playing along side the likes of Wade and Bosh.

Think of it this way, if the Cavs had added Chris Paul and a healthy Gordon Hayward this summer (salary cap be damned!), would LBJ be getting all the love that he's getting for going back to the Finals? No! The pressure would all be on LeBron since he built a "super team" that needs to beat Golden State in order to validate themselves. There's no pressure on LeBron/Cleveland in the Finals right now. They're an average team with one of the greatest players in history. Everyone expects them to lose. If the supporting cast was upgraded, the best player on the planet would be expected to carry them to victory. Instead, he's heaped with praise simply for getting them to the Finals. Even if Boston had won the ECF, no one would be blaming LeBron. He knows this and it's a no lose situation for him.

OK, OK. I don't necessarily believe that but it's interesting to think about, right?

End of ridiculousness.

Not ridiculous at all. I've never seen a player so concerned with how his legacy is perceived while he's actively playing. I truly believe he sucked in the 2011 finals when he saw Wade seizing control because he was panicked that he'd be perceived/written about as a Scottie that needed a guy like Wade to carry him to a championship. Name a healthy superstar in his prime that played worse than LeBron did in the 2011 finals. You won't find one.

[forgetful]

Here's my admittedly ridiculous "hot take" on LeBron...

While LeBron obviously wants to win championships, he recognizes that it has been better for his reputation to carry average Cavs teams through the (mediocre) Eastern Conference as opposed to winning another couple of titles playing along side the likes of Wade and Bosh.

Think of it this way, if the Cavs had added Chris Paul and a healthy Gordon Hayward this summer (salary cap be damned!), would LBJ be getting all the love that he's getting for going back to the Finals? No! The pressure would all be on LeBron since he built a "super team" that needs to beat Golden State in order to validate themselves. There's no pressure on LeBron/Cleveland in the Finals right now. They're an average team with one of the greatest players in history. Everyone expects them to lose. If the supporting cast was upgraded, the best player on the planet would be expected to carry them to victory. Instead, he's heaped with praise simply for getting them to the Finals. Even if Boston had won the ECF, no one would be blaming LeBron. He knows this and it's a no lose situation for him.

OK, OK. I don't necessarily believe that but it's interesting to think about, right?

End of ridiculousness.

Regarding the bolded, honestly they'd still heap praise on him.  If he won the championship with those two, they would still regard him as leading his inferior squad to defeat a super team, because Durant/Thompson/Green are far superior to his supporting cast of Paul/Hayward/(Love?).  Or at least that would be the narrative. 

They need a narrative and they will find one.  Its the NBA marketing.  Lebron is their primary brand.

[GGGG]

Not ridiculous at all. I've never seen a player so concerned with how his legacy is perceived while he's actively playing. I truly believe he sucked in the 2011 finals when he saw Wade seizing control because he was panicked that he'd be perceived/written about as a Scottie that needed a guy like Wade to carry him to a championship. Name a healthy superstar in his prime that played worse than LeBron did in the 2011 finals. You won't find one.

Silliness.

[tower912]

Jordan and LbJ are both at the top of the GOAT list.   You can argue either position all day to no avail.   

GS in 5.   

[Silkk the Shaka]

Silliness.

So you can't name one?

[GGGG]

So you can't name one?

I didn't even get to your last sentence.  I was laughing too hard at your earlier statement.

[Pakuni]

So you can't name one?

The fact LeBron had a bad series does not prove your odd theory. It just proves he had a bad series.

I'm sure one can say a lot of bad things about LeBron, especially the 2011 version of LeBron. But "Scared of being perceived as a complementary player" absolutely is not one of them.
This is a guy who, by that time, was already a two-time MVP, three-time all-defense, five-time all-NBA first team and who'd finished first or second in scoring four years running.
But you think that guy was panicking because he thought he'd be viewed as Robin to Wade's Batman? C'mon.

[Jockey]

You're kidding, right? Never averaged 20 ppg, never made an all-star team, career averages of 11.6/4.2/3.7, he has zero shot of making the NBA HOF. Even if you only look at the time he spent in Chicago when he was in his prime (age 25-31) he averaged 14.1/4.8/4.2. Decent numbers, but not close to HOF numbers.

I see this mistake very often. There is no NBA Hall of Fame.

Kukoc will be in the HOF for the same reasons that Manu Ginobli will be in it. Their careers spanned Foreign leagues, International play, and the Olympics as well as the NBA.

Arvidas Sabonis averaged 12 pts and 7 rebounds in the NBA and was easily elected.

[Jockey]

Jordan and LbJ are both at the top of the GOAT list.   You can argue either position all day to no avail.   

That's never gonna change. Others will say that Wilt, Kareem, or Bill Russell deserve the honor.

I just consider them 1 & 1A with Kareem and Wilt as a very close 2 & 2A.

[GB Warrior]

I see this mistake very often. There is no NBA Hall of Fame.

Kukoc will be in the HOF for the same reasons that Manu Ginobli will be in it. Their careers spanned Foreign leagues, International play, and the Olympics as well as the NBA.

Arvidas Sabonis averaged 12 pts and 7 rebounds in the NBA and was easily elected.

Why is this? This is a very interesting construct.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I didn't even get to your last sentence.  I was laughing too hard at your earlier statement.

Okay so now that you've read it, can you name one?

[Silkk the Shaka]

The fact LeBron had a bad series does not prove your odd theory. It just proves he had a bad series.

I'm sure one can say a lot of bad things about LeBron, especially the 2011 version of LeBron. But "Scared of being perceived as a complementary player" absolutely is not one of them.
This is a guy who, by that time, was already a two-time MVP, three-time all-defense, five-time all-NBA first team and who'd finished first or second in scoring four years running.
But you think that guy was panicking because he thought he'd be viewed as Robin to Wade's Batman? C'mon.

Okay so every time he loses, it's "his teammates suck, I feel so bad for the guy, he'd have 9 championships by now if he had any dang help" but I never hear "wow, he had the most 'help' anyone has ever had in the 2011 finals but he couldn't bring home the bacon." Why did that happen? Why was he passively standing in a corner on offense and playing lax D in crucial close losses? Is he not the indisputable greatest player of all time?

[GGGG]

Okay so now that you've read it, can you name one?

If I cared enough to put thought into it maybe.  But I'm with Pakuni on this.  It's a silly theory.

[GGGG]

Okay so every time he loses, it's "his teammates suck, I feel so bad for the guy, he'd have 9 championships by now if he had any dang help" but I never hear "wow, he had the most 'help' anyone has ever had in the 2011 finals but he couldn't bring home the bacon." Why did that happen? Why was he passively standing in a corner on offense and playing lax D in crucial close losses? Is he not the indisputable greatest player of all time?

Ah.  You decided to go the hyperbole route.  Never a good sign.