Fire Wojo !

[GGGG]

Obscure stat?  I'd say it is pretty telling, when the NCAA seed of the four other teams to accomplish the feat are a 1,1,2, and 3.   

Nah.  You do this all the time.  You find some stat that makes Wojo look bad and all of the sudden you use it like you invented it.  But have you used it before?  Nope.  Will you use it again?  Nope.

It's intellectually lazy.

[Floorslapper]

Nah.  You do this all the time.  You find some stat that makes Wojo look bad and all of the sudden you use it like you invented it.  But have you used it before?  Nope.  Will you use it again?  Nope.

It's intellectually lazy.

Huh?  I didn't read this stat elsewhere.  I came up with it this morning in response to Golden Avalanche's snarky question in another thread.

Granted, I was alarmed last season that we barely snuck into the tourney, despite being the Number 1, 3-pt shooting team in the country, while being 38th in attempts.

We all know eFG% reigns supreme and the prolific 3-ball shooting is a huge component of eFG%

The rest of your above point make zero intellectual sense.

[Herman Cain]

I interpreted Mom's repeated posts mentioning her concern over staying the course because of, essentially, the following logic:  If not Wojo, then who?

Then why are you posting in this thread?  Your C-level leadership style, you asked that someone bring you a solution - instead of complaining.

I gave you Stan Johnson as just one potential solution.  There's Tom Crean.  Thad Matta.  A guy like Kermit Davis at MTSU.  Chris Beard got hired away from Arkansas Little Rock to Texas Tech. Brian Wardle is doing a really good job rebuilding Bradley. Countless examples. 

Do you believe we have the facilities, budget, and commitment to basketball that are reflective of a Top 25 program?  If so, why would you think we couldn't attract a solid coach with a track record of success at a mid-major, or out of work high major coach like Crean or Matta?

Look, I enjoy watching this team play too.  It is a fun brand of basketball.  Unfortunately, we should be in the NCAA with the elite talent we have on this team, not the NIT - and that is on the coach.

You realize that there are only 5 Power 5 teams in college basketball to be in the Top 20 in 3pt shooting percentage AND attempts?  You know the 5?

Nova
Kansas
Purdue
MSU
Marquette 

One is not like the other.  Coaching matters.

I keep hoping that a Power 5 conference team down on its luck and with a rich benefactor, steps up and hires Wojo. I believe the kids on our team would go in to the administration and pound the table for Stan. Markus in particular who is a very impressive young man would lead the charge.   Stan would have a quality team to start with and momentum would build. Stan understands how to relate to kids in a positive way and get the best out of them.

[Eldon]

I'm looking around in the cupboard and I don't see anyth--BAM!



#emptyCupboard

[brewcity77]

Not to pick on you Brew, but this response is representative of the 5 year plan crew to a T.

I can only speak for myself. First, I agree with the 5-year plan and not just for Wojo, but across the board. When it comes to someone like Holtmann, I think it's perfectly legitimate to ask what he'll do in year 4 of a job because he's never been there. Maybe he'll have Ohio State humming by then. Maybe he'll get them to a Sweet 16 or even Final Four with someone else's players and take a better job. Based on his history, the latter is more likely.

I could expound on all the names you mention, but I don't think looking at what someone does at the start is a fair place to evaluate them. Until they are doing it with their own players and you see their ability to put a roster together, build, and sustain, you really don't know what a coach will do. I think with Wojo, we will learn a ton next year. It would be beyond stupid to fire him now, but if he can't sort out some semblance of defense and get us comfortably off the bubble with next year's roster, then it's time to start looking for a replacement.

[Eldon]

From the get-go I was hesitant to jump on the Wojo train.  When he explicitly admitted that the white t-shirt motivational tactic was a gimmick, I decided not to board. 

It may seem small--trivial even--but I found that to be quite telling.

[Eldon]

Huh?  I didn't read this stat elsewhere.  I came up with it this morning in response to Golden Avalanche's snarky question in another thread.

Granted, I was alarmed last season that we barely snuck into the tourney, despite being the Number 1, 3-pt shooting team in the country, while being 38th in attempts.

We all know eFG% reigns supreme and the prolific 3-ball shooting is a huge component of eFG%

The rest of your above point make zero intellectual sense.

It's good to have you back.  And I mean that with all sincerity.

[🏀]

From the get-go I was hesitant to jump on the Wojo train.  When he explicitly admitted that the white t-shirt motivational tactic was a gimmick, I decided not to board. 

It may seem small--trivial even--but I found that to be quite telling.

If it wasn't supposed to be a gimmick, what was it? I think everyone, including ESPN knew it was a gimmick.

[Eldon]

If it wasn't supposed to be a gimmick, what was it? I think everyone, including ESPN knew it was a gimmick.

Two strategies to motivate players
1) Use gimmicks
2) Say "nah, I'm not into playing those games"

Both are okay strategies I suppose.  However, if you choose 1, you must go "all in."  You have to convince your guys that despite appearances, despite what ESPN says, this is NOT a gimmick--you take that Marquette name seriously.

Wojo faltered.  After losing games, he admitted--to the press!--that it was a gimmick.  Sandy and some other players said that they had bought into it.  Sandy said that he was disappointed.

I guarantee that what Sandy really wanted to say is "wtf?  I feel like a sucker." 

Let me ask you this: would play hard for a dude who just pulled the okey-doke on you?  Who tricked the hell out of you?  Made you feel like a fool?  I wouldn't.  Nobody would. 

This is a key difference between Wojo and Buzz, perhaps the key difference: If Buzz were to use a motivational gimmick, he would sell the sh*t out of it.  And if the gimmick didn't work, I'm virtually certain that Buzz is smart enough not to explicitly state that it was a gimmick.  Buzz would fully commit, as it were.

(FWIW, I'd prefer coaches not use any gimmicks, but, again, if a coach does, then he needs to sell it.  And sell it hard.)

[GB Warrior]

I mean if you want to call motivational tactics gimmicks, I'll present to you 80% of leadership

[skianth16]

I could expound on all the names you mention, but I don't think looking at what someone does at the start is a fair place to evaluate them. Until they are doing it with their own players and you see their ability to put a roster together, build, and sustain, you really don't know what a coach will do. I think with Wojo, we will learn a ton next year. It would be beyond stupid to fire him now, but if he can't sort out some semblance of defense and get us comfortably off the bubble with next year's roster, then it's time to start looking for a replacement.

I think that's a mostly fair and reasonable way to look at things. Kevin Ollie is a good example of first impressions not necessarily being representative of what's to come. But in years 3 and 4, Wojo has plenty of his own guys, and we've still struggled to really move the needle. Maybe he had a few misfires in recruiting that limited us in the last 2 years. We know transfers have played a role as well. It seems to me that all of Wojo's eggs are in the Year 5 basket now. I'm hoping it pays off and that Wojo is able to grow along with his players. I guess I just expected a more linear upward trend rather than a couple year plateau with a planned leap in year 5.

Landing guys like Joey, Markus, Morrow, and Rowsey gives me hope that recruiting can be consistent, even though I'm still a bit on the fence there. If he can sign a big time PG, I'll be even more hopeful. With the way we've seen Sam and Markus grow, I'm starting to believe in his ability to develop players. I'm fully convinced that he's got a very strong offensive mind. That much is clear. If he can show some improvement on the defensive side next year, then I'll begin to trust his coaching skills and gameplanning abilities more. I'm excited for Year 5, and I hope that by the end of the year I'll be convinced. For now, though, there are still more question marks than I wanted by the (almost) end of his fourth year.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

He squealed?

No but he did have a restraining order against him.

[NorthernDancerColt]

From the get-go I was hesitant to jump on the Wojo train.  When he explicitly admitted that the white t-shirt motivational tactic was a gimmick, I decided not to board. 

It may seem small--trivial even--but I found that to be quite telling.

Seriously?

At the racetrack, the track generally refers to all wagers other than WinPlaceShow as "gimmicks." Exacta, Trifecta, Pick Fours etc. Those "gimmick" pools usually outpace WPS pools in handle-dollars. The track is NOT saying, "Do not play these wagers, they are silly gimmicks."

A coach's ability to motivate is not thwarted by his later admission that a certain tactic was a bit gimmicky. Imagine Al McGuire being held to your standard. When he got in a fight with a player during practice and screamed out, I'll "killz" you (ask Bo Ellis...that really happened), do you think any players were cracking a smile inside? If Al admitted he was using a gimmick by trying to show his street toughness,  would  this demotivate them?

[brewcity77]

I think that's a mostly fair and reasonable way to look at things. Kevin Ollie is a good example of first impressions not necessarily being representative of what's to come. But in years 3 and 4, Wojo has plenty of his own guys, and we've still struggled to really move the needle. Maybe he had a few misfires in recruiting that limited us in the last 2 years. We know transfers have played a role as well. It seems to me that all of Wojo's eggs are in the Year 5 basket now. I'm hoping it pays off and that Wojo is able to grow along with his players. I guess I just expected a more linear upward trend rather than a couple year plateau with a planned leap in year 5.

Landing guys like Joey, Markus, Morrow, and Rowsey gives me hope that recruiting can be consistent, even though I'm still a bit on the fence there. If he can sign a big time PG, I'll be even more hopeful. With the way we've seen Sam and Markus grow, I'm starting to believe in his ability to develop players. I'm fully convinced that he's got a very strong offensive mind. That much is clear. If he can show some improvement on the defensive side next year, then I'll begin to trust his coaching skills and gameplanning abilities more. I'm excited for Year 5, and I hope that by the end of the year I'll be convinced. For now, though, there are still more question marks than I wanted by the (almost) end of his fourth year.

I felt last year we were moving along fairly linearly. My biggest worry this year was the defense. I didn't expect mountains to move, but some measure of improvement due to added length and more experience in the system for our starting five, all of whom were returning players.

Looking at next year, the reason for hope on defense is more length (Joey, Morrow, someone who's not Rowsey) and experience for the current freshmen. Sounds awfully familiar. I'm hoping it yields results, but if Wojo has an Achilles Heel, that defense sure looks like the likely culprit.

[🏀]

Two strategies to motivate players
1) Use gimmicks
2) Say "nah, I'm not into playing those games"

Both are okay strategies I suppose.  However, if you choose 1, you must go "all in."  You have to convince your guys that despite appearances, despite what ESPN says, this is NOT a gimmick--you take that Marquette name seriously.

Wojo faltered.  After losing games, he admitted--to the press!--that it was a gimmick.  Sandy and some other players said that they had bought into it.  Sandy said that he was disappointed.

I guarantee that what Sandy really wanted to say is "wtf?  I feel like a sucker." 

Let me ask you this: would play hard for a dude who just pulled the okey-doke on you?  Who tricked the hell out of you?  Made you feel like a fool?  I wouldn't.  Nobody would. 

This is a key difference between Wojo and Buzz, perhaps the key difference: If Buzz were to use a motivational gimmick, he would sell the sh*t out of it.  And if the gimmick didn't work, I'm virtually certain that Buzz is smart enough not to explicitly state that it was a gimmick.  Buzz would fully commit, as it were.

(FWIW, I'd prefer coaches not use any gimmicks, but, again, if a coach does, then he needs to sell it.  And sell it hard.)

I'm pretty glad Sandy transferred after reading this.

So, he was duped into thinking their warm-ups were gone for good? That MU was going to come out wearing Hanes for the rest of the season?

[GGGG]

Two strategies to motivate players
1) Use gimmicks
2) Say "nah, I'm not into playing those games"

Both are okay strategies I suppose.  However, if you choose 1, you must go "all in."  You have to convince your guys that despite appearances, despite what ESPN says, this is NOT a gimmick--you take that Marquette name seriously.

Wojo faltered.  After losing games, he admitted--to the press!--that it was a gimmick.  Sandy and some other players said that they had bought into it.  Sandy said that he was disappointed.

I guarantee that what Sandy really wanted to say is "wtf?  I feel like a sucker." 

Let me ask you this: would play hard for a dude who just pulled the okey-doke on you?  Who tricked the hell out of you?  Made you feel like a fool?  I wouldn't.  Nobody would. 

This is a key difference between Wojo and Buzz, perhaps the key difference: If Buzz were to use a motivational gimmick, he would sell the sh*t out of it.  And if the gimmick didn't work, I'm virtually certain that Buzz is smart enough not to explicitly state that it was a gimmick.  Buzz would fully commit, as it were.

(FWIW, I'd prefer coaches not use any gimmicks, but, again, if a coach does, then he needs to sell it.  And sell it hard.)

Wojo's guys seem bought in and play hard.  I don't think motivation is largely a problem.

[Floorslapper]

I'm looking around in the cupboard and I don't see anyth--BAM!



#emptyCupboard

Fond memory.  We need more physical and athletic players like Deonte.  Then again, considering Wojo never started Deonte, maybe that's just not his kind of player?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Fond memory.  We need more physical and athletic players like Deonte.  Then again, considering Wojo never started Deonte, maybe that's just not his kind of player?

Uhhhh, you're completely wrong. It was Buzz who never started Deonte. In the 8 games Deonte was here under Wojo, he started every single game.Thanks for playing, try again.

[Floorslapper]

Fake news

Uhhhh, you're completely wrong. It was Buzz who never started Deonte. In the 8 games Deonte was here under Wojo, he started every single game.Thanks for playing, try again.

Teal?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Teal?

Huh, maybe you're right. Have no clue what I was looking at. Doesn't change the fact that Buzz didn't start Deonte either. Buzz is long gone and isn't coming back. It's time to accept that fact.

[mu03eng]

I keep hoping that a Power 5 conference team down on its luck and with a rich benefactor, steps up and hires Wojo. I believe the kids on our team would go in to the administration and pound the table for Stan. Markus in particular who is a very impressive young man would lead the charge.   Stan would have a quality team to start with and momentum would build. Stan understands how to relate to kids in a positive way and get the best out of them.

I like Stan as much as the next guy, but why would Stan be an improvement over Wojo? Does Stan have the answers on the defensive end and Wojo just won't listen? I'm not saying he couldn't or won't be an improvement but we have exactly zero evidence that any of the issues Wojo has won't also be Stan's weaknesses.

[Floorslapper]

Ah, maybe you're right. Don't know what I was looking at. Doesn't change the fact that Buzz didn't start Deonte either. Buzz is long gone and isn't coming back. It's time to accept that fact.

I fully accept the fact Buzz isn't coming back.  Have realized that since the day he left. Wojo's supporters point to the fact that all of Devante, Jamil, Jake, Todd, and Otule were off the roster starting Year 1. 

I simply never accepted the fact that Deonte wasn't slotted for one of those vacated starting roles. 

[Floorslapper]

I like Stan as much as the next guy, but why would Stan be an improvement over Wojo? Does Stan have the answers on the defensive end and Wojo just won't listen? I'm not saying he couldn't or won't be an improvement but we have exactly zero evidence that any of the issues Wojo has won't also be Stan's weaknesses.

Pretty sure Seton Hall games were Stan's scouts.  Also, highly doubt Wojo takes much input from his staff.  He's starting to reveal having a thin skin.

Assistants can make suggestions of course - yet imagine if an assistant were as passionate/dogged in their disagreement with Wojo, philosophically, as am I?  You think the assistant would worry about getting fired?  Probably.  It's a hard deal.  Would love to get Travis Diener one on one, off the record and pick his brain about his thoughts on Woj...

[mu03eng]

Pretty sure Seton Hall games were Stan's scouts.  Also, highly doubt Wojo takes much input from his staff.  He's starting to reveal having a thin skin.

Assistants can make suggestions of course - yet imagine if an assistant were as passionate/dogged in their disagreement with Wojo, philosophically, as am I?  You think the assistant would worry about getting fired?  Probably.  It's a hard deal.  Would love to get Travis Diener one on one, off the record and pick his brain about his thoughts on Woj...

So what if Stan's scouts were the Seton Hall games? Ya know what Seton Hall doesn't do? PnR. Ya know what we suck at? PnR defense.

The rest of this response is on me, I forgot about your clairvoyance into how coaches interact and what they are thinking by watching stuff on a TV screen every couple of days when the games are played.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Pretty sure Seton Hall games were Stan's scouts.  Also, highly doubt Wojo takes much input from his staff.  He's starting to reveal having a thin skin.

Assistants can make suggestions of course - yet imagine if an assistant were as passionate/dogged in their disagreement with Wojo, philosophically, as am I?  You think the assistant would worry about getting fired?  Probably.  It's a hard deal.  Would love to get Travis Diener one on one, off the record and pick his brain about his thoughts on Woj...

Assistants are usually chosen because they have a close connection with the head coach. The last thing they're worried about is getting fired because they disagree with the head coach.