MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mcderjim on November 19, 2015, 10:03:43 PM

Title: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mcderjim on November 19, 2015, 10:03:43 PM
Start it now, why not ?  Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Da 'Lanche on November 19, 2015, 10:06:58 PM
I guess I didn't realize 3 games make up a year....
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 19, 2015, 10:07:07 PM
Those 3s were the only thing often...They were triple teaming the post. Our players just didn't hit them so there were able to stack the post.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: naginiF on November 19, 2015, 10:07:42 PM
Poor fan. Poor alumni representation. Poor thread. Poor post.  Poor you(?).
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on November 19, 2015, 10:08:44 PM
Start it now, why not ?  Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?

I'll give you credit, at least you have been consistent for the last couple of years on Buzz and Wojo.  I don't agree with your thread title, but you have been consistent which I can respect.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: DJO's Jaw on November 19, 2015, 10:09:58 PM
Dumb. Give the team some time to gel. If we look exactly the same in March, you may have a case. Until then, keep the Fire Woho posts to yourself.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: DJO's Jaw on November 19, 2015, 10:10:59 PM
*Wojo

Damn touchscreen...
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: NotBuzzWilliams on November 19, 2015, 10:18:44 PM
Lol
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mcderjim on November 19, 2015, 10:25:34 PM
I don't see the fire in Wojo that I remember when he was a tough, top notch Duke PG. Kevin O'Neill had fire from Day 1, when we were at our lowest after years of incompetence. Sure, I understand he was 'improper' at times. And I understand Wojo has the youngest team around (as O'Neill had against Duke). But damn, show some fire. (Afraid you may screw up your future dream job ?) Duane needs a kick up the butt. jJJ needs to go to Div 3. We lost by 30 which could have been 50 ..make a point! Mediocrity can only be accepted for so long.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 19, 2015, 10:30:09 PM
I don't see the fire in Wojo that I remember when he was a tough, top notch Duke PG. Kevin O'Neill had fire from Day 1, when we were at our lowest after years of incompetence. Sure, I understand he was 'improper' at times. And I understand Wojo has the youngest team around (as O'Neill had against Duke). But damn, show some fire. (Afraid you may screw up your future dream job ?) Duane needs a kick up the butt. jJJ needs to go to Div 3. We lost by 30 which could have been 50 ..make a point! Mediocrity can only be accepted for so long.

You're really gonna say that about JJJ after tonight? PS. McFlopper sucks.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jesmu84 on November 19, 2015, 10:32:49 PM
"see the fire"? Lol. Such a meathead fan comment.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on November 19, 2015, 10:34:54 PM
Just ignore this asswipe. Let this be the last response to it.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on November 19, 2015, 10:58:28 PM
Just ignore this asswipe. Let this be the last response to it.

+1...oh crapty.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mcderjim on November 20, 2015, 12:00:02 AM
If a coach making a Top 10 salary from a Top 30 all time college BBall program can't recruit or motivate players to beat or at least compete in their first/second year against IUPUI, NJIT, Belmont, then I think it's fair to question his ability to do the job.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 🏀 on November 20, 2015, 12:13:01 AM
Too really, but after tonight I wouldn't be shocked if Wojo was back on Duke's bench 24 months from now.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Class71 on November 20, 2015, 06:18:23 AM
I think we need to give Wojo considerably more time than 3 games with this group before bringing out the dogs. There will be no miracles this year without a point guard, etc. etc.

Having said that MU  year in and year out pays big money to hire untested head coaches and then hopes for the best. Sometimes they are successful and sometimes they are not. I have never seen such an approach used in the private secttor. Why they follow this strategy  is far beyond my simple thought process.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Marquette_g on November 20, 2015, 06:28:34 AM
If a coach making a Top 10 salary from a Top 30 all time college BBall program can't recruit or motivate players to beat or at least compete in their first/second year against IUPUI, NJIT, Belmont, then I think it's fair to question his ability to do the job.

I do not believe he is top 10 in salary.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: SaveOD238 on November 20, 2015, 06:43:31 AM
I don't know if I'm on board the fire Wojo bandwagon yet, but one thing really bothered me last night was the amount of time he used in timeouts.  I counted 4 or 5 times, including the start of the second half, when our players were standing on the court waiting for 20-30 seconds or more while Fran continued to coach.  Did wojo give up on coaching early? Lose his voice?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GurneeHitchkr on November 20, 2015, 07:35:38 AM
Stupid, stupid thread.  Delete it now.  We are so young and inexperienced. Patience, rookies. In a year or two, we'll be playing as well as Iowa did, only we have much superior talent.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: NickelDimer on November 20, 2015, 08:09:54 AM
Fire him?! No, let's burn him at the stake! Then he'll know how disapproving Marquette fan feels
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Marquette_g on November 20, 2015, 08:34:29 AM
Stupid, stupid thread.  Delete it now.  We are so young and inexperienced. Patience, rookies. In a year or two, we'll be playing as well as Iowa did, only we have much superior talent.

Well then we will be doing so without our most talented player.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: bilsu on November 20, 2015, 10:35:12 AM
I have not liked Wojo from the start and part of that was that I could not stand him when he was Duke's point guard. One of my most disliked players of all time and it was like "you got to be kidding me" when MU hired him. The team is young and last night's game reminded me of the game when Harris, Cordell and company were freshmen and UW came in and destroyed the team in the first half. I actually left that game at halftime and then vowed I would not leave a game early again. I was there at the final buzzer last night. One of the things that really disturbs me, which I think will be the real downfall of MU basketball, is the number of fans attending a game. It really hurts me to look up and see all of those empty seats. I am not sure who we should blame the empty seats on. However, with the home games being on TV a lot of people are not going to spend money to come to the games. I want to be optimistic and realistic (the team is very young), but I do not believe Wojo is going to succeed. However, I think he should be given at least four years. This is his first head coaching job and when you hire a first time coach you owe him enough time to learn on the job.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mattyv1908 on November 20, 2015, 10:39:47 AM
I have not liked Wojo from the start and part of that was that I could not stand him when he was Duke's point guard. One of my most disliked players of all time and it was like "you got to be kidding me" when MU hired him. The team is young and last night's game reminded me of the game when Harris, Cordell and company were freshmen and UW came in and destroyed the team in the first half. I actually left that game at halftime and then vowed I would not leave a game early again. I was there at the final buzzer last night. One of the things that really disturbs me, which I think will be the real downfall of MU basketball, is the number of fans attending a game. It really hurts me to look up and see all of those empty seats. I am not sure who we should blame the empty seats on. However, with the home games being on TV a lot of people are not going to spend money to come to the games. I want to be optimistic and realistic (the team is very young), but I do not believe Wojo is going to succeed. However, I think he should be given at least four years. This is his first head coaching job and when you hire a first time coach you owe him enough time to learn on the job.

Agree with most of this.

My only objection would be that in any successful organization, when they figure out that the person they hired isn't the right fit for the job they have no problem cutting ties as soon as they come to that conclusion.  To do otherwise reduces productivity and prolongs the problem.  I'm not saying Wojo has reached that point yet, but I do not subscribe to the notion that someone is owed a guaranteed length of time on the job if the results are sub par.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Marquette_g on November 20, 2015, 10:59:49 AM
I have not liked Wojo from the start and part of that was that I could not stand him when he was Duke's point guard. One of my most disliked players of all time and it was like "you got to be kidding me" when MU hired him. The team is young and last night's game reminded me of the game when Harris, Cordell and company were freshmen and UW came in and destroyed the team in the first half. I actually left that game at halftime and then vowed I would not leave a game early again. I was there at the final buzzer last night. One of the things that really disturbs me, which I think will be the real downfall of MU basketball, is the number of fans attending a game. It really hurts me to look up and see all of those empty seats. I am not sure who we should blame the empty seats on. However, with the home games being on TV a lot of people are not going to spend money to come to the games. I want to be optimistic and realistic (the team is very young), but I do not believe Wojo is going to succeed. However, I think he should be given at least four years. This is his first head coaching job and when you hire a first time coach you owe him enough time to learn on the job.

I left early last night because I was sick of watching this team turn the ball over and miss 3s.  I paid my money and when I stopped being entertained (actually I should have left at the first TV timeout) I departed.

This season as well as the last two have me questioning whether to renew.  I've been a ticket holder since I graduated in 2000 and this coming off-season will be the first where I seriously contemplate letting them go.  Watching three straight seasons of ugly, boring basketball is not that much fun for me.  Add in a conference void of true rivals and the equation gets even less favorable.  I don't owe MU anything, nor do they owe me. 

I have some questions about Wojo as a coach, his attitude as a player is irrelevant to me.  In one seasons + 3 games, his teams tend not to play all that hard, can't defend and suck at shooting.  It isn't all on him, he was left nothing and now has young players, but to-date he hasn't really coached them up either.  If the end of this season resembles the beginning in any way, please feel free to show him the door, he shouldn't be guaranteed 4 years.




Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: BubbaWilliams on November 20, 2015, 11:46:22 AM
Mediocrity can only be accepted for so long.
And that time frame is 3 games!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Tums Festival on November 20, 2015, 11:57:59 AM
One of the things that really disturbs me, which I think will be the real downfall of MU basketball, is the number of fans attending a game.

SMDH...overly dramatic much?!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Herman Cain on November 20, 2015, 12:17:57 PM
The window for Wojo to recruit above trend is very limited. Coming in he had the "Duke Halo" and was able to offer recruits the ability to play right away. It is not unusual in these circumstances for a guy to get some good recruiting classes. Each year we get further away from that Wojo has to sell his own performance record.

Last year was unacceptable, and as far as I am concerned that  performance and the non conference season this year are his mulligan. If Wojo cannot produce in conference this year then we need to look in a different direction. I know there are those that say give the guy 4-5  years etc . However, for the money we are spending and the resources he has that is simply too long. Also I dispute the notion that we were a dumpster fire when he arrived.

Wojo needs to deliver a .500 year in conference in my view to demonstrate he has the actually game coaching capability to succeed.  That means he will have to win most of the home games and get a few wins on the road. If Wojo can do that then I would be willing  to sign up for two more years.

There are plenty of successful coaches who would love to coach at Marquette and can get the job done . If Wojo can't achieve mediocre results as outlined above then he cant get the job done and I say, in that event, lets regroup and hire a seasoned head coach. Another lousy year will sink us for a good 5-7 years.

My instinct is Wojo would have been much better off starting his coaching career at a low major and showing some performance.

In the meantime MU Rah



Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Benny B on November 20, 2015, 12:22:34 PM
"see the fire"? Lol. Such a meathead fan comment.

LOL.  "Fight no fire with fire" apparently.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: NCMUFan on November 20, 2015, 01:31:48 PM
I say, let the guy keep coaching.  He has been around Coach K for many years.  Let him get his system in place.  Once his players get it and execute it will be a different story.  Give his some slack.  Once he feels he is on egg shells it is over.  I
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Cooby Snacks on November 20, 2015, 02:16:27 PM
SMDH...overly dramatic much?!

Seriously. The late 90s into Crean's tenure saw some pretty barren crowds. Just had to start winning again.

I also think that a school like ours having 12,000+ season ticket holders between students and alums/general public is a really great accomplishment. It looks worse than it is because we play in an oversized arena.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: bilsu on November 20, 2015, 09:26:02 PM
Who do you think MU would hire if they fired Wojo? History says they would hire another assistant. Starting a revolving door is probably not a good idea. Wojo deserves the time to see where he can take this team this year and next year. After that he has no excuses.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorfred on November 21, 2015, 05:39:37 AM
I am reserving judgment until March 2016.  But my judgment does not matter as Marquette will keep Wojo through March 2017, even if the product is terrible.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: nathanziarek on November 21, 2015, 09:16:34 AM
My only objection would be that in any successful organization, when they figure out that the person they hired isn't the right fit for the job they have no problem cutting ties as soon as they come to that conclusion.

I don't think most people will have a problem cutting ties when they come to that conclusion. I just think most of us disagree that you can make this a rash decision. Whether as coach or CEO, you hired this person for a reason. Not giving him the chance to enact his vision only results in churn.

...In two seasons + 3 games, his teams tend not to play all that hard, can't defend and suck at shooting.

One season and three games. Just one.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 21, 2015, 07:38:06 PM
I don't see the fire in Wojo that I remember when he was a tough, top notch Duke PG. Kevin O'Neill had fire from Day 1, when we were at our lowest after years of incompetence. Sure, I understand he was 'improper' at times. And I understand Wojo has the youngest team around (as O'Neill had against Duke). But damn, show some fire. (Afraid you may screw up your future dream job ?) Duane needs a kick up the butt. jJJ needs to go to Div 3. We lost by 30 which could have been 50 ..make a point! Mediocrity can only be accepted for so long.

so, who ya crappin?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Marquette_g on November 22, 2015, 08:26:16 AM

One season and three games. Just one.

Thanks, Im not sure why I typed that. It has been corrected.

Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: bobnoxious on November 22, 2015, 09:57:47 AM
Not sure if it was posted elsewhere but can we get a peek at the season checklist? I feel we are checking off quite a few boxes at this point
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on November 23, 2015, 08:26:58 PM
Sports are funny
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: forgetful on November 23, 2015, 09:21:02 PM
Sports are funny

I agree.  The fire Wojo sentiments were idiotic. 

We have a Freshman PG, who has limited experience because of a serious knee injury.

Our other Freshman PG has never played the position before.

We have a Freshman McDonalds All-American, who having played in WI, does not have a ton of experience at this level and is still learning team defense.

We have an experienced Big, but he is coming off Shoulder surgery.

We have a very good PG/SG, but he only has 1 year of experience and is still learning.

We have a SG who had to completely revamp his shot in the off-season because it was so dreadful. 

They are learning and will improve all season long.  I trust in Wojo.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: We R Final Four on November 23, 2015, 09:34:50 PM

We have a Freshman McDonalds All-American, who having played in WI, does not have a ton of experience at this level and is still learning team defense.

I don't understand this. What freshman--burger boy or not---has any experience at this level?
What does Playing in Wisconsin have to do with anything to do with that? Kevon and Diamond in the same boat?
Still learning team defense? I completely agree. I think he is starting to understand it, but it never has been and never will be a strong suit for HE.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Marquette Fan in WI on December 12, 2015, 02:40:21 PM
bump
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: keefe on December 12, 2015, 02:41:54 PM
too funny!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: naginiF on December 12, 2015, 02:44:35 PM
Classic.

Add to it "Wojo doesn't know how to coach in TO huddles!  all i hear is the same old 'coach speak' he needs to be more specific".  I laughed every time they showed the dry erase court being handed to him as the team came together.

Also, lots of references from the announcers at how well coached MU is.

Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on December 12, 2015, 02:47:08 PM
Amazing what a rollercoaster this season has been. I have to say, since Iowa, Wojo has done a fantastic job. Going into NYC, I think most would have been happy with 1-1, instead we beat a ranked LSU team and an ASU team that looks pretty good. Granted, you can only take so much from the cupcake wins, but the team looks far more motivated, ahead of the curve in terms of the new defensive rules, and in general is just a better team. Since this thread was started, we are 7-0 (soon to be 9-0 with Chicago State and Prebyterian upcoming).

I had my own questions about Wojo early in the season. Thus far, he has absolutely answered the bell. I wasn't ready to fire him (or even close) but I'm really glad he's making people eat some crow. And while I may only have an appetizer of crow nuggets myself, they are freaking delicious.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mu_hilltopper on December 12, 2015, 04:47:16 PM
There is only one conclusion here.

Wojo read this thread and got his act together.   
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 12, 2015, 04:49:09 PM
There is only one conclusion here.

Wojo read this thread and got his act together.   

So another letter writing campaign ends successfully!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MUfan12 on December 12, 2015, 05:10:33 PM
Wojo coached one helluva game today. If Brown doesn't shoot out of his mind, MU wins easily. Completely took away their two big guns.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: muwarrior69 on December 12, 2015, 05:18:19 PM
There is only one conclusion here.

Wojo read this thread and got his act together.

or there is magic in those white practice shirts.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Coleman on December 12, 2015, 05:33:25 PM
There is only one conclusion here.

Wojo read this thread and got his act together.

Scoop always delivers
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 12, 2015, 05:34:12 PM
or there is magic in those white practice shirts.

How long until the spirit shop start selling "official" MUBB white t shirts?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on December 12, 2015, 05:38:34 PM
How long until the spirit shop start selling "official" MUBB white t shirts?

Target already beat them to it

http://www.target.com/p/hanes-men-s-6pk-crew-neck-t-shirts-white/-/A-14450616?sid=229S&ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&CPNG=PLA_Men+Shopping_Local&adgroup=Tee%20Undershirts_SC_Local&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=t&location=9031057&lsft=gclid:Cj0KEQiAqK-zBRC2zaXc8MOiwfIBEiQAXPHrXhH_Fo4yCt6BuC-fdrNrUjkAVKbkGK_YmhFEDj940aIaAnFn8P8HAQ,gclsrc:aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KEQiAqK-zBRC2zaXc8MOiwfIBEiQAXPHrXhH_Fo4yCt6BuC-fdrNrUjkAVKbkGK_YmhFEDj940aIaAnFn8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: naginiF on December 12, 2015, 05:40:45 PM
Target already beat them to it

http://www.target.com/p/hanes-men-s-6pk-crew-neck-t-shirts-white/-/A-14450616?sid=229S&ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&CPNG=PLA_Men+Shopping_Local&adgroup=Tee%20Undershirts_SC_Local&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=t&location=9031057&lsft=gclid:Cj0KEQiAqK-zBRC2zaXc8MOiwfIBEiQAXPHrXhH_Fo4yCt6BuC-fdrNrUjkAVKbkGK_YmhFEDj940aIaAnFn8P8HAQ,gclsrc:aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KEQiAqK-zBRC2zaXc8MOiwfIBEiQAXPHrXhH_Fo4yCt6BuC-fdrNrUjkAVKbkGK_YmhFEDj940aIaAnFn8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
*internet high five*
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Earl Tatum on December 12, 2015, 05:49:44 PM
I Have my "Wojo Warriors" T-shirt on in front of my 2 wisco buddies.LOVE IT!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mcderjim on December 12, 2015, 07:06:29 PM
I have no problem eating crow. Absolutely loved the win today. A couple of comments:
1). I underestimated how young and inexperienced this team is. Love the future of Cheatem and Ellenson.
2). I love the motivational moves by Wojo to get the team moving in the right direction. This alone makes me feel better about his future as a Warrior
3). I'm still not sold on Wojo as a bench/game coach. Hopefully he's better than Crean in the long run. We almost gave up an 11/13 point lead to a team that was dead in the water.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on December 12, 2015, 07:29:33 PM
Amazing what a rollercoaster this season has been.

I respectfully disagree that it has been a rollercoaster ride, which I define as down, up, down, up, down, up, etc.

We had a bad first three games. We've been up since.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brandx on December 12, 2015, 09:33:40 PM
I respectfully disagree that it has been a rollercoaster ride, which I define as down, up, down, up, down, up, etc.

We had a bad first three games. We've been up since.

Agreed. We have performed as a young, talented, inexperienced team should perform. Started poorly and have shown much improvement offensively and defensively. If we continue on this path, we have a shot at The Dance.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Marquette Fan in WI on December 10, 2016, 11:14:09 AM
Wanted to make sure everyone had easy  access to this thread in case today doesn't go according to their plans.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Herman Cain on December 10, 2016, 02:47:44 PM
Wanted to make sure everyone had easy  access to this thread in case today doesn't go according to their plans.
Wojo doing his usual job of demotivating the team.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorfan 14 on December 10, 2016, 02:49:03 PM
this thread will heat up. wojo has done nothing to prove his worth at marquette thus far
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jesmu84 on December 10, 2016, 02:54:37 PM
Wojo doing his usual job of demotivating the team.

You're a joke.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Shark on December 10, 2016, 02:55:47 PM
this thread will heat up. wojo has done nothing to prove his worth at marquette thus far

You don't like the offensive game plan? So inventive!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Blackhat on December 10, 2016, 02:56:52 PM
Has it been 5 years yet?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorstrack on December 10, 2016, 03:09:07 PM
WTF
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Marqus Howard on December 10, 2016, 03:11:32 PM
You're a joke.

+1, but he's better than a lot of the "fans" who show up here after a loss.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jesmu84 on December 10, 2016, 03:15:43 PM
+1, but he's better than a lot of the "fans" who show up here after a loss.

Good point. I'll give him credit for that
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on December 10, 2016, 03:18:27 PM
+1, but he's better than a lot of the "fans" who show up here after a loss.

Not really.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 1SE on December 10, 2016, 03:21:48 PM
He's a deer in the headlights. The "in the huddle" during UW's 16-0 run.

"We gotta stick together.......... we gotta stick together"

What a great tactician.

The talent is there but Wojo has to be one of the worst game coaches I have ever seen. We go to Luke in the 1st possession in the second half - doesn't drop but it's a good look. Then we abandon him? Go again and again and again. WTF. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jesmu84 on December 10, 2016, 03:23:12 PM
He's a deer in the headlights. The "in the huddle" during UW's 16-0 run.

"We gotta stick together.......... we gotta stick together"

What a great tactician.


The talent is there but Wojo has to be one of the worst game coaches I have ever seen. We go to Luke in the 1st possession in the second half - doesn't drop but it's a good look. Then we abandon him? Go again and again and again. WTF.

Based on that alone, you're either a troll or a moron. Either way, your opinion means nothing.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: forgetful on December 10, 2016, 03:24:02 PM
Time to vacate the board for a bit while the crazies come out and whine.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 10, 2016, 03:24:27 PM
He's a deer in the headlights. The "in the huddle" during UW's 16-0 run.

You have points, but stop using the huddle as your proof. It makes you sound no so smart.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 1SE on December 10, 2016, 03:32:35 PM
You have points, but stop using the huddle as your proof. It makes you sound no so smart.

It's called illustrative evidence - I'm not trying to prove anything. Maybe you want to suggest the 16-0 run was just bad luck? Or blame the players? I prefer the buck stops with the coach - how that happens - in our house - is beyond me. How you don't have something that you've drawn up, that you've worked on all week, that is a sure-fire bucket that you can put in after the 8-0 run, or at the second TO you should have called when the run was 12-0, boggles my mind.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: muwarrior69 on December 10, 2016, 03:33:46 PM
So we lost to an experienced senior team. The solution to turning things around is to fire the coach? Then we are back to square one. We'll all be complaining about the next guy because we didn't make the NCAA in his first year.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 10, 2016, 03:35:31 PM
It's called illustrative evidence - I'm not trying to prove anything. Maybe you want to suggest the 16-0 run was just bad luck? Or blame the players?

The "zero" part of 16-0 was bad luck.  The 16 part was bad defense, or at least defense not well suited to the team.  I do mostly blame Wojo for th defense (80%), and the rest probably goes to the the team not executing well.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Herman Cain on December 10, 2016, 03:37:34 PM
So we lost to an experienced senior team. The solution to turning things around is to fire the coach? Then we are back to square one. We'll all be complaining about the next guy because we didn't make the NCAA in his first year.
We have Stan Johnson. He has the critical ties to all the recruits. The current players all like him and he is a motivator.

Wojo is a demotivator.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorstrack on December 10, 2016, 03:38:00 PM
See you tomorrow
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 1SE on December 10, 2016, 03:39:09 PM
Some of the "zero" has to be to bad coaching - there were a few good looks during the run but most of the possessions the offense was a mess - execution is the coach's responsibility. Well-coached teams rarely, if ever, look lost.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jesmu84 on December 10, 2016, 03:39:59 PM
It's called illustrative evidence - I'm not trying to prove anything. Maybe you want to suggest the 16-0 run was just bad luck? Or blame the players? I prefer the buck stops with the coach - how that happens - in our house - is beyond me. How you don't have something that you've drawn up, that you've worked on all week, that is a sure-fire bucket that you can put in after the 8-0 run, or at the second TO you should have called when the run was 12-0, boggles my mind.

Thanks for proving my point earlier.

I'm sticking with moron, after you doubled-down.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Herman Cain on December 10, 2016, 03:40:57 PM
In the words of the great Milwaukee Sheriff David Clarke " It is time for Pitchforks and Torches..."
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 10, 2016, 03:41:38 PM
Just gotta know if Wojo coached Howard ta 22, hey?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on December 10, 2016, 03:42:34 PM
Some of the "zero" has to be to bad coaching - there were a few good looks during the run but most of the possessions the offense was a mess - execution is the coach's responsibility. Well-coached teams rarely, if ever, look lost.


The 0 had to do with lack of size. UW extended their defense and with Happ in there, MU didn't have many options.

Blame Wojo for the lack of size. Not much he could have done to adjust today. Maybe he should have just gone small earlier? 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 10, 2016, 03:43:40 PM
Some of the "zero" has to be to bad coaching - there were a few good looks during the run but most of the possessions the offense was a mess - execution is the coach's responsibility.

I don't know.  I wound't call an offense that scored 84 on Bucky "a mess".  I would call a defense that gave up 93 to Bucky "a mess".  And I'm putting most of that on Wojo.  I don't know why this is a disagreement.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on December 10, 2016, 03:44:06 PM
Thanks for proving my point earlier.

I'm sticking with moron, after you doubled-down.

Timeouts are two minutes long and some people think that 20 seconds of look in is "illustrative evidence." 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Newsdreams on December 10, 2016, 03:45:30 PM
In the words of the great Milwaukee Sheriff David Clarke " It is time for Pitchforks and Torches..."
Yes another ahole
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MUfan12 on December 10, 2016, 03:46:05 PM
In the words of the great Milwaukee Sheriff David Clarke " It is time for Pitchforks and Torches..."

And dead prison inmates? Or were they demotivated to live?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jesmu84 on December 10, 2016, 03:46:19 PM
Timeouts are two minutes long and some people think that 20 seconds of look in is "illustrative evidence." 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: nyg on December 10, 2016, 03:46:37 PM
I don't know.  I wound't call an offense that scored 84 on Bucky "a mess".  I would call a defense that gave up 93 to Bucky "a mess".  And I'm putting most of that on Wojo.  I don't know why this is a disagreement.

I believe Wiskey shot 65% in the second half.  Thats not very good defense
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 10, 2016, 03:50:27 PM
Watchin' Butler. Dey gonna torch our asses, ai na?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Earl Tatum on December 10, 2016, 03:50:55 PM
We lost our fire at the halftime. Also shots didn't fall, makes us look bad. 
Hauser played like a freshman. We are just to small. Luke and Markus played well. Cheatham is coming back. D-Wil-just going thru the motions
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 1SE on December 10, 2016, 03:52:06 PM
We lost to an experienced, ranked team, I get it. A win would have been great but it really wasn't expected. But that doesn't mean Wojo was playing with house money. You can take different paths to a 9 point loss, and there can be different take away's from those paths. Had UW gradually pulled away, maybe up 4 at 10:00, up 7 at half, up 11 at 30:00 and win by nine, yeah, nothing to feel to bad about, we were outplayed by the slightly better team. But to go from up 5 with 18:24 to go to down 15 with 9:24 is a different kind of thing. We lost those nine minutes 27 - 7. And this is, what, the third time in 10 games we've seen a stretch like this? I just don't see how its not on our coach when the team's collective brain shuts off for 25% of a game. 

And it stings more because it's Bucky.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 10, 2016, 03:54:52 PM
We lost our fire at the halftime. Also shots didn't fall, makes us look bad. 
Hauser played like a freshman. We are just to small. Luke and Markus played well. Cheatham is coming back. D-Wil-just going thru the motions



Aka, Happ played da second half, hey?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 1SE on December 10, 2016, 03:55:39 PM
I don't know.  I wound't call an offense that scored 84 on Bucky "a mess".  I would call a defense that gave up 93 to Bucky "a mess".  And I'm putting most of that on Wojo.  I don't know why this is a disagreement.

75% of the game sure, the offense was fine (although the last 15 points were just garbage time).

But the 25% of the game where we scored 7 points in over 10 minutes. I think we can go ahead and call that a mess. (Especially since, as the other 75% shows, we are clearly capable of putting the ball in the hoop!)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorstrack on December 10, 2016, 03:59:15 PM
I 2nd that
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 10, 2016, 04:12:18 PM
75% of the game sure, the offense was fine (although the last 15 points were just garbage time).

But the 25% of the game where we scored 7 points in over 10 minutes. I think we can go ahead and call that a mess. (Especially since, as the other 75% shows, we are clearly capable of putting the ball in the hoop!)

Again, I agree that we didn't play good offense for a portion of the game (obviously, right?).  But when at least 75% of the game is decent to good offense, you can't claim we have an offensive problem, or that Wojo can't coach offense.

Defense, complain away...
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 79Warrior on December 10, 2016, 04:29:20 PM
We lost our fire at the halftime. Also shots didn't fall, makes us look bad. 
Hauser played like a freshman. We are just to small. Luke and Markus played well. Cheatham is coming back. D-Wil-just going thru the motions

If todays play by HC means he is coming back then his journey has just begun. He is in a real sophomore slump.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorstrack on December 10, 2016, 04:32:55 PM
Just gotta know if Wojo coached Howard ta 22, hey?
No
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 🏀 on December 10, 2016, 06:00:03 PM
We have Stan Johnson. He has the critical ties to all the recruits. The current players all like him and he is a motivator.

Wojo is a demotivator.

Get unnatural carnal knowledgeed douche bag
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 10, 2016, 06:05:07 PM
Get unnatural carnal knowledgeed douche bag
Brought to us by the performances artist known as Tex/MUFINY/Gus/Ners, who believes that if we had started Dawson, Deonte, Cohen, and JJJ, we wouldn't have even needed a 5th player on the court to beat the badgers by 50.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: bilsu on December 10, 2016, 06:07:44 PM
I don't know.  I wound't call an offense that scored 84 on Bucky "a mess".  I would call a defense that gave up 93 to Bucky "a mess".  And I'm putting most of that on Wojo.  I don't know why this is a disagreement.
UW is a very good interior passing team, but UW had several wide open shots underneath the basket. You can expect this to happen one time in a game, but ther had to be at least a half dozen of these. Some of these came after an MU substitution and it seemed to me the incoming player did not know where he should be. Maybe we sub too much.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Blackhat on December 10, 2016, 06:08:50 PM
The ole court slapper is a terrible defensive coach.   Who woudda thought.

Maybe the geniuses that fired Buzz can fire themselves this go around.   Drain the swamp.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 10, 2016, 06:10:08 PM
The ole court slapper is a terrible defensive coach.   Who woudda thought.

Maybe the geniuses that fired Buzz can fire themselves this go around.   Drain the swamp.
Buzz fired Buzz
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brandx on December 10, 2016, 06:11:59 PM
We lost our fire at the halftime. Also shots didn't fall, makes us look bad. 
Hauser played like a freshman. We are just to small. Luke and Markus played well. Cheatham is coming back. D-Wil-just going thru the motions

Just a stupid comment - unless by "we lost our fire at halftime" you mean "Happ played in the 2nd half".

He was the best player on the floor and once he was on the floor, they pulled away. And Hayes was the 2nd best player on the floor.

They are probably about 10 points better than us and that's how the game turned out.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Herman Cain on December 10, 2016, 06:49:28 PM
Brought to us by the performances artist known as Tex/MUFINY/Gus/Ners, who believes that if we had started Dawson, Deonte, Cohen, and JJJ, we wouldn't have even needed a 5th player on the court to beat the badgers by 50.
Add Levin and you have the fifth player.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on December 10, 2016, 06:50:38 PM
In the words of the great Milwaukee Sheriff David Clarke " It is time for Pitchforks and Torches..."

Congratulations. You got your wish and Marquette lost. It gives you license to do what you do best: gripe and whine.

Now, unfortunately, you didn't get your wish to have MU go 0-5 against Vanderbilt, Michigan, Pitt, Georgia and Wisconsin. But buck up. If you're really lucky Sam will have some more 0-fers, your man JJJ will play like a freshman again and you can celebrate the possibility of the de-motivator being fired down the road.

Then, a couple years after Coach Stan Johnson is in a similar predicament, you can rip Marquette for hiring the guy you wanted instead of an established name-brand coach.

You're so effen predictable.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 10, 2016, 07:04:22 PM
Add Levin and you have the fifth player.

;) Tip of the hat
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Herman Cain on December 10, 2016, 08:21:43 PM
Congratulations. You got your wish and Marquette lost. It gives you license to do what you do best: gripe and whine.

Now, unfortunately, you didn't get your wish to have MU go 0-5 against Vanderbilt, Michigan, Pitt, Georgia and Wisconsin. But buck up. If you're really lucky Sam will have some more 0-fers, your man JJJ will play like a freshman again and you can celebrate the possibility of the de-motivator being fired down the road.

Then, a couple years after Coach Stan Johnson is in a similar predicament, you can rip Marquette for hiring the guy you wanted instead of an established name-brand coach.

You're so effen predictable.
This is an internet message board . People express opinions. You should hear the talk radio in NY when one of the local teams loses.

I want Marquette to win as much as anyone else on this message board. I just have a low tolerance for stuffed shirt corporate back stabber types like Wojo.  The sooner he is gone the better.

Bob Dukiet was actually a decent human being. Can't say the same for Wojo.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 10, 2016, 08:29:48 PM
Bob Dukiet was actually a decent human being. Can't say the same for Wojo.

OK Tex.  I've had it with your "fake news".  We gave you a second life here, and you've abused it.  Take a break for a month. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on December 10, 2016, 08:53:25 PM
OK Tex.  I've had it with your "fake news".  We gave you a second life here, and you've abused it.  Take a break for a month.
He gowne
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 10, 2016, 09:03:57 PM
OK Tex.  I've had it with your "fake news".  We gave you a second life here, and you've abused it.  Take a break for a month.

(http://i.imgur.com/O3DHIA5.gif?noredirect)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on December 10, 2016, 10:26:53 PM
OK Tex.  I've had it with your "fake news".  We gave you a second life here, and you've abused it.  Take a break for a month.

You've ascended to be my second favorite Rocky, surpassing Balboa but still a smidge behind Bullwinkle's buddy!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Benny B on December 10, 2016, 11:02:54 PM
We live in a wonderfully complex universe, and we are curious about it by nature. Time and again we have wondered--- why are we here? Where did we and the world come from? What is the world made of? It is our privilege to live in a time when enormous progress has been made towards finding some of the answers. String theory is our most recent attempt to answer the last (and part of the second) question.

So, what is the world made of? Ordinary matter is made of atoms, which are in turn made of just three basic components: electrons whirling around a nucleus composed of neutrons and protons. The electron is a truly fundamental particle (it is one of a family of particles known as leptons), but neutrons and protons are made of smaller particles, known as quarks. Quarks are, as far as we know, truly elementary.

Our current knowledge about the subatomic composition of the universe is summarized in what is known as the Standard Model of particle physics. It describes both the fundamental building blocks out of which the world is made, and the forces through which these blocks interact. There are twelve basic building blocks. Six of these are quarks--- they go by the interesting names of up, down, charm, strange, bottom and top. (A proton, for instance, is made of two up quarks and one down quark.) The other six are leptons--- these include the electron and its two heavier siblings, the muon and the tauon, as well as three neutrinos.

There are four fundamental forces in the universe: gravity, electromagnetism, and the weak and strong nuclear forces. Each of these is produced by fundamental particles that act as carriers of the force. The most familiar of these is the photon, a particle of light, which is the mediator of electromagnetic forces. (This means that, for instance, a magnet attracts a nail because both objects exchange photons.) The graviton is the particle associated with gravity. The strong force is carried by eight particles known as gluons. Finally, the weak force is transmitted by three particles, the W+, the W- , and the Z.

The behavior of all of these particles and forces is described with impeccable precision by the Standard Model, with one notable exception: gravity. For technical reasons, the gravitational force, the most familiar in our every day lives, has proven very difficult to describe microscopically. This has been for many years one of the most important problems in theoretical physics-- to formulate a quantum theory of gravity.

In the last few decades, string theory has emerged as the most promising candidate for a microscopic theory of gravity. And it is infinitely more ambitious than that: it attempts to provide a complete, unified, and consistent description of the fundamental structure of our universe. (For this reason it is sometimes, quite arrogantly, called a 'Theory of Everything').

The essential idea behind string theory is this: all of the different 'fundamental ' particles of the Standard Model are really just different manifestations of one basic object: a string. How can that be? Well, we would ordinarily picture an electron, for instance, as a point with no internal structure. A point cannot do anything but move. But, if string theory is correct, then under an extremely powerful 'microscope' we would realize that the electron is not really a point, but a tiny loop of string. A string can do something aside from moving--- it can oscillate in different ways. If it oscillates a certain way, then from a distance, unable to tell it is really a string, we see an electron. But if it oscillates some other way, well, then we call it a photon, or a quark, or a ... you get the idea. So, if string theory is correct, the entire world is made of strings!

Perhaps the most remarkable thing about string theory is that such a simple idea works--- it is possible to derive (an extension of) the Standard Model (which has been verified experimentally with incredible precision) from a theory of strings. But it should also be said that, to date, there is no direct experimental evidence that string theory itself is the correct description of Nature. This is mostly due to the fact that string theory is still under development. We know bits and pieces of it, but we do not yet see the whole picture, and we are therefore unable to make definite predictions. In recent years many exciting developments have taken place, radically improving our understanding of what the theory is.

If you want to learn more, visit the sites listed below. I also highly recommend the popular science book "The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for The Ultimate Theory" (W. W. Norton & Company, 1999), written by Prof. Brian Greene, a well-established string theorist.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on December 11, 2016, 01:00:24 AM
We live in a wonderfully complex universe, and we are curious about it by nature. Time and again we have wondered--- why are we here? Where did we and the world come from? What is the world made of? It is our privilege to live in a time when enormous progress has been made towards finding some of the answers. String theory is our most recent attempt to answer the last (and part of the second) question.

So, what is the world made of? Ordinary matter is made of atoms, which are in turn made of just three basic components: electrons whirling around a nucleus composed of neutrons and protons. The electron is a truly fundamental particle (it is one of a family of particles known as leptons), but neutrons and protons are made of smaller particles, known as quarks. Quarks are, as far as we know, truly elementary.

Our current knowledge about the subatomic composition of the universe is summarized in what is known as the Standard Model of particle physics. It describes both the fundamental building blocks out of which the world is made, and the forces through which these blocks interact. There are twelve basic building blocks. Six of these are quarks--- they go by the interesting names of up, down, charm, strange, bottom and top. (A proton, for instance, is made of two up quarks and one down quark.) The other six are leptons--- these include the electron and its two heavier siblings, the muon and the tauon, as well as three neutrinos.

There are four fundamental forces in the universe: gravity, electromagnetism, and the weak and strong nuclear forces. Each of these is produced by fundamental particles that act as carriers of the force. The most familiar of these is the photon, a particle of light, which is the mediator of electromagnetic forces. (This means that, for instance, a magnet attracts a nail because both objects exchange photons.) The graviton is the particle associated with gravity. The strong force is carried by eight particles known as gluons. Finally, the weak force is transmitted by three particles, the W+, the W- , and the Z.

The behavior of all of these particles and forces is described with impeccable precision by the Standard Model, with one notable exception: gravity. For technical reasons, the gravitational force, the most familiar in our every day lives, has proven very difficult to describe microscopically. This has been for many years one of the most important problems in theoretical physics-- to formulate a quantum theory of gravity.

In the last few decades, string theory has emerged as the most promising candidate for a microscopic theory of gravity. And it is infinitely more ambitious than that: it attempts to provide a complete, unified, and consistent description of the fundamental structure of our universe. (For this reason it is sometimes, quite arrogantly, called a 'Theory of Everything').

The essential idea behind string theory is this: all of the different 'fundamental ' particles of the Standard Model are really just different manifestations of one basic object: a string. How can that be? Well, we would ordinarily picture an electron, for instance, as a point with no internal structure. A point cannot do anything but move. But, if string theory is correct, then under an extremely powerful 'microscope' we would realize that the electron is not really a point, but a tiny loop of string. A string can do something aside from moving--- it can oscillate in different ways. If it oscillates a certain way, then from a distance, unable to tell it is really a string, we see an electron. But if it oscillates some other way, well, then we call it a photon, or a quark, or a ... you get the idea. So, if string theory is correct, the entire world is made of strings!

Perhaps the most remarkable thing about string theory is that such a simple idea works--- it is possible to derive (an extension of) the Standard Model (which has been verified experimentally with incredible precision) from a theory of strings. But it should also be said that, to date, there is no direct experimental evidence that string theory itself is the correct description of Nature. This is mostly due to the fact that string theory is still under development. We know bits and pieces of it, but we do not yet see the whole picture, and we are therefore unable to make definite predictions. In recent years many exciting developments have taken place, radically improving our understanding of what the theory is.

If you want to learn more, visit the sites listed below. I also highly recommend the popular science book "The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for The Ultimate Theory" (W. W. Norton & Company, 1999), written by Prof. Brian Greene, a well-established string theorist.

So, unless I'm reading this wrong, you're saying the Standard Model requires firing Wojo?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 11, 2016, 07:06:26 AM
  a couple of things, which is the weakest? W+, W-, or the Z?  secondly, if the string theory is building to be the new normal, what is going on with the bond(s) that hold the individual particles strings together to keep them in particulate form?  assuming each string(linear) is connected at some point together to form the photon or quark,  can they become unraveled, or disconnected thus  becoming a "string" as opposed to being a "particle"?

      alright, i get it.  right now, the team is a bunch of unraveled strings.  now, in order to keep this in the al, let's just say that wojo is either a W+,/- or Z and the team is UN-particle-ized gluons at the moment.  but,  thru the forces of gravity, which is the most questioned or unknown of forces, come together to form a nice, strong"gluon", wojo will keep his job.  this would take all of the players quarks to focus their photons into a single, monochromatic, coherent beam, hence laser, toward the same goal of putting the sphere in to the black hole=WINNING

reminds me of what my high school physics teacher used to say-physics is phun and easy     
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: wildbillsb on December 11, 2016, 08:42:17 AM
Gosh, now I understand.  Thanks, everybody!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Newsdreams on December 11, 2016, 09:41:19 AM
So Benny B is Stephen Hawking
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 11, 2016, 10:49:13 AM
OK Tex.  I've had it with your "fake news".  We gave you a second life here, and you've abused it.  Take a break for a month.

Dang it!  Just when I had come to appreciate Tex's posts for what they were.  One must read them not for their informational value--they have none, for they were never intended to convey actual information--but for their pure whimsical, artistic allure.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Newsdreams on December 11, 2016, 11:14:36 AM
Dang it!  Just when I had come to appreciate Tex's posts for what they were.  One must read them not for their informational value--they have none, for they were never intended to convey actual information--but for their pure whimsical, artistic allure.
Yep I can see what u saying
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: bilsu on December 11, 2016, 11:36:12 AM
We live in a wonderfully complex universe, and we are curious about it by nature. Time and again we have wondered--- why are we here? Where did we and the world come from? What is the world made of? It is our privilege to live in a time when enormous progress has been made towards finding some of the answers. String theory is our most recent attempt to answer the last (and part of the second) question.

So, what is the world made of? Ordinary matter is made of atoms, which are in turn made of just three basic components: electrons whirling around a nucleus composed of neutrons and protons. The electron is a truly fundamental particle (it is one of a family of particles known as leptons), but neutrons and protons are made of smaller particles, known as quarks. Quarks are, as far as we know, truly elementary.

Our current knowledge about the subatomic composition of the universe is summarized in what is known as the Standard Model of particle physics. It describes both the fundamental building blocks out of which the world is made, and the forces through which these blocks interact. There are twelve basic building blocks. Six of these are quarks--- they go by the interesting names of up, down, charm, strange, bottom and top. (A proton, for instance, is made of two up quarks and one down quark.) The other six are leptons--- these include the electron and its two heavier siblings, the muon and the tauon, as well as three neutrinos.

There are four fundamental forces in the universe: gravity, electromagnetism, and the weak and strong nuclear forces. Each of these is produced by fundamental particles that act as carriers of the force. The most familiar of these is the photon, a particle of light, which is the mediator of electromagnetic forces. (This means that, for instance, a magnet attracts a nail because both objects exchange photons.) The graviton is the particle associated with gravity. The strong force is carried by eight particles known as gluons. Finally, the weak force is transmitted by three particles, the W+, the W- , and the Z.

The behavior of all of these particles and forces is described with impeccable precision by the Standard Model, with one notable exception: gravity. For technical reasons, the gravitational force, the most familiar in our every day lives, has proven very difficult to describe microscopically. This has been for many years one of the most important problems in theoretical physics-- to formulate a quantum theory of gravity.

In the last few decades, string theory has emerged as the most promising candidate for a microscopic theory of gravity. And it is infinitely more ambitious than that: it attempts to provide a complete, unified, and consistent description of the fundamental structure of our universe. (For this reason it is sometimes, quite arrogantly, called a 'Theory of Everything').

The essential idea behind string theory is this: all of the different 'fundamental ' particles of the Standard Model are really just different manifestations of one basic object: a string. How can that be? Well, we would ordinarily picture an electron, for instance, as a point with no internal structure. A point cannot do anything but move. But, if string theory is correct, then under an extremely powerful 'microscope' we would realize that the electron is not really a point, but a tiny loop of string. A string can do something aside from moving--- it can oscillate in different ways. If it oscillates a certain way, then from a distance, unable to tell it is really a string, we see an electron. But if it oscillates some other way, well, then we call it a photon, or a quark, or a ... you get the idea. So, if string theory is correct, the entire world is made of strings!

Perhaps the most remarkable thing about string theory is that such a simple idea works--- it is possible to derive (an extension of) the Standard Model (which has been verified experimentally with incredible precision) from a theory of strings. But it should also be said that, to date, there is no direct experimental evidence that string theory itself is the correct description of Nature. This is mostly due to the fact that string theory is still under development. We know bits and pieces of it, but we do not yet see the whole picture, and we are therefore unable to make definite predictions. In recent years many exciting developments have taken place, radically improving our understanding of what the theory is.

If you want to learn more, visit the sites listed below. I also highly recommend the popular science book "The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for The Ultimate Theory" (W. W. Norton & Company, 1999), written by Prof. Brian Greene, a well-established string theorist.
That is an impressive post, but my toughts after reading it is that MUscoopers have sinned. They will be continued to punished by God until they repent. After all God is the central power of the univererse.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: fjm on December 11, 2016, 12:06:45 PM
OK Tex.  I've had it with your "fake news".  We gave you a second life here, and you've abused it.  Take a break for a month.

I'm ALL for opinion of posters. But he was just downright ruthless on fire Wojo, everyone is wrong but in right, I know inside on every player in the country, MU sucks.
I could even accept his 0-5 takes. But we win 2 of the 5 (I was hoping for 3) and he freaks.

I will say this though, coming into this week, there were so many scoopers hoping for 2-1 out of this 3 game stretch. And we did get 2-1, with the loss coming to, what I honestly see is a top 10 UW team once all is said and done.

Should we have won? Possibly. And I upset? Nope I'm disappointed and really bummed but this team is better. But COME ON, 4 senior started with final four experience and HAPP. Was gonna be a tough go.

Keep strong and push on. Wojo has them on the right track.

Having said that, Wojo needs to work a bit on his defense for sure. But I have faith.

(I also claim no inside knowledge, and I played basketball for 3 years in middle school coming off the bench and scored a total of 2 points in those 3 years... so I'm just a fan. That loves his team and thinks Wojo is a great recruiter and a solid coach. But still has a ways to go)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GWSwarrior on December 11, 2016, 12:34:46 PM
Start it now, why not ?  Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?

You're afraid and fear makes you dumb so basically you're being dumb
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Dawson Rental on December 11, 2016, 09:05:06 PM
We live in a wonderfully complex universe, and we are curious about it by nature. Time and again we have wondered--- why are we here? Where did we and the world come from? What is the world made of? It is our privilege to live in a time when enormous progress has been made towards finding some of the answers. String theory is our most recent attempt to answer the last (and part of the second) question.

So, what is the world made of? Ordinary matter is made of atoms, which are in turn made of just three basic components: electrons whirling around a nucleus composed of neutrons and protons. The electron is a truly fundamental particle (it is one of a family of particles known as leptons), but neutrons and protons are made of smaller particles, known as quarks. Quarks are, as far as we know, truly elementary.

Our current knowledge about the subatomic composition of the universe is summarized in what is known as the Standard Model of particle physics. It describes both the fundamental building blocks out of which the world is made, and the forces through which these blocks interact. There are twelve basic building blocks. Six of these are quarks--- they go by the interesting names of up, down, charm, strange, bottom and top. (A proton, for instance, is made of two up quarks and one down quark.) The other six are leptons--- these include the electron and its two heavier siblings, the muon and the tauon, as well as three neutrinos.

There are four fundamental forces in the universe: gravity, electromagnetism, and the weak and strong nuclear forces. Each of these is produced by fundamental particles that act as carriers of the force. The most familiar of these is the photon, a particle of light, which is the mediator of electromagnetic forces. (This means that, for instance, a magnet attracts a nail because both objects exchange photons.) The graviton is the particle associated with gravity. The strong force is carried by eight particles known as gluons. Finally, the weak force is transmitted by three particles, the W+, the W- , and the Z.

The behavior of all of these particles and forces is described with impeccable precision by the Standard Model, with one notable exception: gravity. For technical reasons, the gravitational force, the most familiar in our every day lives, has proven very difficult to describe microscopically. This has been for many years one of the most important problems in theoretical physics-- to formulate a quantum theory of gravity.

In the last few decades, string theory has emerged as the most promising candidate for a microscopic theory of gravity. And it is infinitely more ambitious than that: it attempts to provide a complete, unified, and consistent description of the fundamental structure of our universe. (For this reason it is sometimes, quite arrogantly, called a 'Theory of Everything').

The essential idea behind string theory is this: all of the different 'fundamental ' particles of the Standard Model are really just different manifestations of one basic object: a string. How can that be? Well, we would ordinarily picture an electron, for instance, as a point with no internal structure. A point cannot do anything but move. But, if string theory is correct, then under an extremely powerful 'microscope' we would realize that the electron is not really a point, but a tiny loop of string. A string can do something aside from moving--- it can oscillate in different ways. If it oscillates a certain way, then from a distance, unable to tell it is really a string, we see an electron. But if it oscillates some other way, well, then we call it a photon, or a quark, or a ... you get the idea. So, if string theory is correct, the entire world is made of strings!

Perhaps the most remarkable thing about string theory is that such a simple idea works--- it is possible to derive (an extension of) the Standard Model (which has been verified experimentally with incredible precision) from a theory of strings. But it should also be said that, to date, there is no direct experimental evidence that string theory itself is the correct description of Nature. This is mostly due to the fact that string theory is still under development. We know bits and pieces of it, but we do not yet see the whole picture, and we are therefore unable to make definite predictions. In recent years many exciting developments have taken place, radically improving our understanding of what the theory is.

If you want to learn more, visit the sites listed below. I also highly recommend the popular science book "The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for The Ultimate Theory" (W. W. Norton & Company, 1999), written by Prof. Brian Greene, a well-established string theorist.

Christ!  More Myron Metcalf type BS.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on December 12, 2016, 10:48:00 AM
Superbar!


We live in a wonderfully complex universe, and we are curious about it by nature. Time and again we have wondered--- why are we here? Where did we and the world come from? What is the world made of? It is our privilege to live in a time when enormous progress has been made towards finding some of the answers. String theory is our most recent attempt to answer the last (and part of the second) question.

So, what is the world made of? Ordinary matter is made of atoms, which are in turn made of just three basic components: electrons whirling around a nucleus composed of neutrons and protons. The electron is a truly fundamental particle (it is one of a family of particles known as leptons), but neutrons and protons are made of smaller particles, known as quarks. Quarks are, as far as we know, truly elementary.

Our current knowledge about the subatomic composition of the universe is summarized in what is known as the Standard Model of particle physics. It describes both the fundamental building blocks out of which the world is made, and the forces through which these blocks interact. There are twelve basic building blocks. Six of these are quarks--- they go by the interesting names of up, down, charm, strange, bottom and top. (A proton, for instance, is made of two up quarks and one down quark.) The other six are leptons--- these include the electron and its two heavier siblings, the muon and the tauon, as well as three neutrinos.

There are four fundamental forces in the universe: gravity, electromagnetism, and the weak and strong nuclear forces. Each of these is produced by fundamental particles that act as carriers of the force. The most familiar of these is the photon, a particle of light, which is the mediator of electromagnetic forces. (This means that, for instance, a magnet attracts a nail because both objects exchange photons.) The graviton is the particle associated with gravity. The strong force is carried by eight particles known as gluons. Finally, the weak force is transmitted by three particles, the W+, the W- , and the Z.

The behavior of all of these particles and forces is described with impeccable precision by the Standard Model, with one notable exception: gravity. For technical reasons, the gravitational force, the most familiar in our every day lives, has proven very difficult to describe microscopically. This has been for many years one of the most important problems in theoretical physics-- to formulate a quantum theory of gravity.

In the last few decades, string theory has emerged as the most promising candidate for a microscopic theory of gravity. And it is infinitely more ambitious than that: it attempts to provide a complete, unified, and consistent description of the fundamental structure of our universe. (For this reason it is sometimes, quite arrogantly, called a 'Theory of Everything').

The essential idea behind string theory is this: all of the different 'fundamental ' particles of the Standard Model are really just different manifestations of one basic object: a string. How can that be? Well, we would ordinarily picture an electron, for instance, as a point with no internal structure. A point cannot do anything but move. But, if string theory is correct, then under an extremely powerful 'microscope' we would realize that the electron is not really a point, but a tiny loop of string. A string can do something aside from moving--- it can oscillate in different ways. If it oscillates a certain way, then from a distance, unable to tell it is really a string, we see an electron. But if it oscillates some other way, well, then we call it a photon, or a quark, or a ... you get the idea. So, if string theory is correct, the entire world is made of strings!

Perhaps the most remarkable thing about string theory is that such a simple idea works--- it is possible to derive (an extension of) the Standard Model (which has been verified experimentally with incredible precision) from a theory of strings. But it should also be said that, to date, there is no direct experimental evidence that string theory itself is the correct description of Nature. This is mostly due to the fact that string theory is still under development. We know bits and pieces of it, but we do not yet see the whole picture, and we are therefore unable to make definite predictions. In recent years many exciting developments have taken place, radically improving our understanding of what the theory is.

If you want to learn more, visit the sites listed below. I also highly recommend the popular science book "The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for The Ultimate Theory" (W. W. Norton & Company, 1999), written by Prof. Brian Greene, a well-established string theorist.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Benny B on December 12, 2016, 10:57:54 AM
So, unless I'm reading this wrong, you're saying the Standard Model requires firing Wojo?

I was simply trying to bring the average intelligence in this thread up to a 2nd grade level, but evidently, I'm going to have to discover cold fusion for that to happen.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on December 12, 2016, 11:19:24 AM
I was simply trying to bring the average intelligence in this thread up to a 2nd grade level, but evidently, I'm going to have to discover cold fusion for that to happen.

When I used to go out to start my Ford on a chilly Chicago morning, that was one cold Fusion.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Loose Cannon on December 12, 2016, 11:23:22 AM
We lost to an experienced, ranked team, I get it. A win would have been great but it really wasn't expected. But that doesn't mean Wojo was playing with house money. You can take different paths to a 9 point loss, and there can be different take away's from those paths. Had UW gradually pulled away, maybe up 4 at 10:00, up 7 at half, up 11 at 30:00 and win by nine, yeah, nothing to feel to bad about, we were outplayed by the slightly better team. But to go from up 5 with 18:24 to go to down 15 with 9:24 is a different kind of thing. We lost those nine minutes 27 - 7. And this is, what, the third time in 10 games we've seen a stretch like this? I just don't see how its not on our coach when the team's collective brain shuts off for 25% of a game. 

And it stings more because it's Bucky.

It Stings, because you let it Sting.

Very old Proverb  "Pain is inevitable, Suffering is a Choice"
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: RushmoreAcademy on December 13, 2016, 10:49:15 AM
In the spirit of internet memes.... I present the Fire Wojo series.

(http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q405/novakmu/fire-wojo-up_zpskmavqoeu.jpg)

(http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q405/novakmu/fire-wojo-out_zpsygwstxka.jpg)

(http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q405/novakmu/fire-wojo-is_zps51m3dqqj.jpg)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GoldenDieners32 on December 13, 2016, 11:19:52 AM
Why fire wojo? He's been coaching fine just needs to coach defense
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: RushmoreAcademy on December 13, 2016, 01:59:00 PM
Why fire wojo? He's been coaching fine just needs to coach defense

I don't want him fired. That's just the thread title. Also these memes prove I love him.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GB Warrior on December 13, 2016, 02:37:53 PM


(I also claim no inside knowledge, and I played basketball for 3 years in middle school coming off the bench and scored a total of 2 points in those 3 years... so I'm just a fan. That loves his team and thinks Wojo is a great recruiter and a solid coach. But still has a ways to go)

Don't sell yourself short - Ners would say that makes you a resident SME
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: muwarrior97 on December 13, 2016, 06:04:33 PM
Why? Is it in this thread somewhere?  Seems he's bringing the program back and talent level is going up
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: naginiF on December 13, 2016, 06:54:45 PM
Why? Is it in this thread somewhere?  Seems he's bringing the program back and talent level is going up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hZJ4cotUWc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hZJ4cotUWc)

Basic impatience (no level headed Scooper is actually calling for Wojo's job they're just getting antsy), denial of the fact that with few exceptions consistent high level performance is near impossible to maintain in CBB (see above clip), some folks just don't like Wojo for whatever reason, and mix in a healthy level of trolling and you get this thread.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 13, 2016, 07:05:43 PM
Why? Is it in this thread somewhere?  Seems he's bringing the program back and talent level is going up

Is the talent level actually going up? I believe someone averaged out the rankings and amount of top 100 (150?) recruits cream buzz and wojo all brought and found it was pretty in line with what we usually get which is a couple 50-100, round out the class with a non 100 four star maybe a three star here or there.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on December 13, 2016, 07:14:14 PM
Is the talent level actually going up? I believe someone averaged out the rankings and amount of top 100 (150?) recruits cream buzz and wojo all brought and found it was pretty in line with what we usually get which is a couple 50-100, round out the class with a non 100 four star maybe a three star here or there.

Look at the high school recruits from Buzz's first two classes and Wojo's first two classes. The talent level isn't just going up, it's a rocket shooting through the GD moon.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 14, 2016, 10:16:25 AM
Look at the high school recruits from Buzz's first two classes and Wojo's first two classes. The talent level isn't just going up, it's a rocket shooting through the GD moon.

For many, the cobbled together roster that achieved greatly on the court vastly overshadowed the real difficulty Buzz had in evaluating, and eventually landing, high school talent. He simply does a poor job with this component of the position.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GoldenDieners32 on December 14, 2016, 11:04:22 AM
For many, the cobbled together roster that achieved greatly on the court vastly overshadowed the real difficulty Buzz had in evaluating, and eventually landing, high school talent. He simply does a poor job with this component of the position.
Hopefully with the last scholarship for 2017 we could get a transfer or juco player maybe. Then 2018 get Joey
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jsglow on December 14, 2016, 11:32:06 AM
Hopefully with the last scholarship for 2017 we could get a transfer or juco player maybe. Then 2018 get Joey

To be clear, there's technically 2 slots available this Spring.  I don't think anyone expects that both would go to incoming Frosh but that remains a possibility.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: fjm on December 14, 2016, 12:07:34 PM
Make the NCAA tourney and solid grad transfers will come to that open spot.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on December 14, 2016, 12:13:22 PM
For many, the cobbled together roster that achieved greatly on the court vastly overshadowed the real difficulty Buzz had in evaluating, and eventually landing, high school talent. He simply does a poor job with this component of the position.

Ahmed Hill & Marial Shayok would look pretty nice in MU unis right now
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 14, 2016, 12:48:18 PM
Ahmed Hill & Marial Shayok would look pretty nice in MU unis right now

We already have that in Haany & Howard.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 14, 2016, 12:59:10 PM
Look at the high school recruits from Buzz's first two classes and Wojo's first two classes. The talent level isn't just going up, it's a rocket shooting through the GD moon.

In terms of talent evaluation I believe Wojo is better and grabbing better recruits but Cadougan, Williams, Maymonne, Blue and Jones were all top 100s and for the most part rated higher than Houser, Haanif and Bailey are. In terms of national perception Buzz's players were a lot more lauded than what Wojo's brought in. I think Wojo knows who's more likely to pan out but perceptionwise it hasn't changed much.

Buzz brought in: Cadougan, Williams, Maymonne, Blue, Jones, Taylor, *Wilson (former top 100), Burton, Johnson, D Wilson, *Fischer (former top 100) and Sandy
Also got commits from top 100 Harri, Hill, Noskowiak though circumstances sent them elsewhere.

Wojo brought in: Haanif, Ellenson, Hauser, Bailey, *Reinhardt (former top 100), Howard (hard to give an accurate rating of if he'd have been a burger boy or what)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on December 14, 2016, 02:15:41 PM
That's part of the problem. Buzz brought in guys who were overrated, Wojo is bringing in guys that are good at basketball.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: naginiF on December 14, 2016, 09:05:30 PM
I'm watching Ben Howland's Bulldogs play against E. Tennessee St.

a - VERY empty arena in Starkville - if anyone wants to argue that there is any competition for your entertainment dollar in Starkville, MS other than a Miss St athletic event, i'm all ears.
b - if this ref crew was assigned any MU game Luke wouldn't get 3 fouls in any game
c - Miss St. lost at home to E. Tenn St.
d - clearly there needs to be a firing in Mississippi
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
z - we all wish the BODs would've been rational and taken one of these types of proven coaches
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 14, 2016, 11:06:49 PM
Buzz brought in guys who were overrated, Wojo is bringing in guys that are good at basketball.

Guess that's why Buzz's teams sucked and Wojo's are winning championships.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on December 14, 2016, 11:24:34 PM
Guess that's why Buzz's teams sucked and Wojo's are winning championships.

Please, go through their high school recruits and tell me how that's an incorrect statement.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 15, 2016, 09:28:51 AM
Please, go through their high school recruits and tell me how that's an incorrect statement.

I don't count HE as a high school player - to me he was Matt Carlino or Katin Reinhardt, a one year transfer.

That leaves Matt Heldt, Traci Carter and HC from class #1. HC was pretty good at playing basketball as a freshman, not very good so far this year. Traci was "meh", Matt's a little less than that.

This year's two are better. Sam can play and Markus can really play.

Of the three guys next year I don't see any sure things.

Lots of Buzz's guys were either overrated or didn't have the toughness required to make it in his program - I'll grant you that. From what I've seen, that toughness isn't as much a requirement with Wojo.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on December 15, 2016, 09:37:36 AM
I don't count HE as a high school player - to me he was Matt Carlino or Katin Reinhardt, a one year transfer.

"My point is correct only if I get to redefine words."
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 15, 2016, 10:37:36 AM
"My point is correct only if I get to redefine words."

I'm not even saying my point is correct, just offering opinions.

But I do stand by the premise that a one and done, whether from high school, college transfer or grad transfer is a category unto itself. High school guys I expect 4 years from, Jucos 2 or 3 depending when they arrive - one and dones obviously 1. IMO how long you'll have a player skews their worth.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MomofMUltiples on December 15, 2016, 09:04:20 PM
Given that certain schools who have won multiple national championships have found one and dones out of high school to be transformative, I'm not sure you can so easily equate a "played one year and was then a first round NBA draft pick" to a "graduate transfer on his third school who is unlikely to play basketball again except pick up games at the Y."  Henry's problem wasn't lack of a multi year commitment to the team, it was timing.  It would have been better had he come when we had a solid core of experienced players to make the most of his ability.  Wish we had him for this year or next year instead.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on December 15, 2016, 10:13:46 PM
I don't count HE as a high school player - to me he was Matt Carlino or Katin Reinhardt, a one year transfer.

That leaves Matt Heldt, Traci Carter and HC from class #1. HC was pretty good at playing basketball as a freshman, not very good so far this year. Traci was "meh", Matt's a little less than that.

This year's two are better. Sam can play and Markus can really play.

Of the three guys next year I don't see any sure things.

Lots of Buzz's guys were either overrated or didn't have the toughness required to make it in his program - I'll grant you that. From what I've seen, that toughness isn't as much a requirement with Wojo.

Buzz's first class was Junior Cadougan, Jeronne Maymon, Erik Williams, and Youssoupha Mbao. Traci was better than Junior after two seasons, Henry was better than Maymon, Haanif is better than Williams, and Heldt is better than Mbao. Buzz's second class was Vander, Jamail Jones, Reggie Smith, and Davante. At least as freshmen, I'd take Howard and Hauser over Vander and Jones.

That leaves Sacar Anim from Wojo's first class and Smith and Gardner from Buzz's second class. Anim hasn't offered much, but it's been more than Smith. Will any of next year's recruits be the next Davante? We can only hope, but if Buzz is winning one out of 8 comparisons, I think it's safe to say Wojo is a better evaluator and recruiter of high school talent.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jonny09 on December 15, 2016, 10:22:08 PM
Who got more out of his players?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on December 15, 2016, 10:31:50 PM
Who got more out of his players?

High school players? Wojo. Unless Buzz got bonuses for the frequent flier miles they racked up when they left.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: bilsu on December 16, 2016, 09:52:31 AM
That's part of the problem. Buzz brought in guys who were overrated, Wojo is bringing in guys that are good at basketball.
I think Wojo is bringing in high IQ guys, but then I watch UW get several wide open shots under the basket when MU is not smart enough to do the proper switching. Maybe recruiting good shooters versus recruiting lower skilled, but more athletic switchables is not as good as we think it is.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on December 16, 2016, 09:59:43 AM
bilsu

The two freshmen are high basketball IQ guys and I like that big time. Plus they are athletic and basketball players. They are two kids that I believe can be very, very solid building blocks for the future.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 16, 2016, 10:39:42 AM
bilsu

The two freshmen are high basketball IQ guys and I like that big time. Plus they are athletic and basketball players. They are two kids that I believe can be very, very solid building blocks for the future.

Goose - high IQ? I think so. Basketball players? Definitely. Athletic? I'd say solid but not uber athletic (could be wrong about Marcus). IMHO our entire team's biggest shortcoming is a lack of elite athleticism.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jsglow on December 16, 2016, 10:47:10 AM
Goose - high IQ? I think so. Basketball players? Definitely. Athletic? I'd say solid but not uber athletic (could be wrong about Marcus). IMHO our entire team's biggest shortcoming is a lack of elite athleticism.

I don't know.  I don't recall 'Nova as being elite athletes last year and that turned out kinda okay.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Windyplayer on December 16, 2016, 10:48:00 AM
You know we lost (to UW, no less) with a long break until the next game when there's a 7-page thread titled "Fire Wojo."

[Oh no, I'm contributing to its length.]
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: BM1090 on December 16, 2016, 11:56:42 AM
I don't count HE as a high school player - to me he was Matt Carlino or Katin Reinhardt, a one year transfer.

That leaves Matt Heldt, Traci Carter and HC from class #1. HC was pretty good at playing basketball as a freshman, not very good so far this year. Traci was "meh", Matt's a little less than that.

This year's two are better. Sam can play and Markus can really play.

Of the three guys next year I don't see any sure things.

Lots of Buzz's guys were either overrated or didn't have the toughness required to make it in his program - I'll grant you that. From what I've seen, that toughness isn't as much a requirement with Wojo.

HC is averaging 12/5/3 (rounded) on a 47/33/88 slash line. He has also cut his turnovers down from 2.7 to 1.0 per game. He's fine. He's had a few poor games, but overall he's been good.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on December 16, 2016, 12:52:42 PM
Lenny

Athletic enough because they have the IQ and basketball skills. If you have those two nailed it makes things much easier.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: auburnmarquette on December 16, 2016, 01:08:10 PM
Jacking up 3 pointers.
Wow, one of a few dozen teams shooting over 40 percent on 3s, 11 th best shooting (eFG) in country and 15th best offense in country. Two of three freshman in the country try hitting g 50 percent of threes. Strange attack line there.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 16, 2016, 01:21:42 PM
Lenny

Athletic enough because they have the IQ and basketball skills. If you have those two nailed it makes things much easier.

Could not agree more. Athleticism can be built. Basketball skills can be taught though not as easily as athleticism can be built. Basketball IQ is a you have it or you don't.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 16, 2016, 01:39:10 PM
I don't know.  I don't recall 'Nova as being elite athletes last year and that turned out kinda okay.

Maybe not quite "North Carolina" athletic but way more athletic (and much stronger physically) than us.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 16, 2016, 03:53:37 PM
Maybe not quite "North Carolina" athletic but way more athletic (and much stronger physically) than us.

I agree with "much stronger" but not "way more athletic" than us. Jenkins and Brunson are slow. Arch got by on smarts. Chef was down the line average athletically. Hart is above average but not special athletic. Booth and Bridges are good athletes.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Marquette Fan in WI on January 24, 2017, 09:24:50 PM
stay sane scoop
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: tower912 on January 24, 2017, 09:25:35 PM
Great bump.     Bwahahaha
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: BallBoy on January 24, 2017, 09:29:06 PM


Wojobu just said "f**k you Scoop and he did it himself
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: wadesworld on January 24, 2017, 09:44:29 PM
Lol this is great.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jesmu84 on January 24, 2017, 09:49:23 PM
Lotta people had some pretty strong opinions in this thread and are nowhere to be found tonight. I'm willing to bet they don't show up for a while either
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: wadesworld on January 24, 2017, 09:53:20 PM
Lotta people had some pretty strong opinions in this thread and are nowhere to be found tonight. I'm willing to bet they don't show up for a while either

Bingo.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocket surgeon on January 24, 2017, 09:54:40 PM
Start it now, why not ?  Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall????????


i couldn't help myself...let's see, how much $pub$ did this generate?   waiting..... ::) ::)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: forgetful on January 24, 2017, 09:54:51 PM
Wojo to Duke.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocket surgeon on January 24, 2017, 09:56:31 PM
start it now, why not?  i vote we fire mcderjim
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: B. McBannerson on February 04, 2017, 02:51:55 PM
I don't see the fire in Wojo that I remember when he was a tough, top notch Duke PG. Kevin O'Neill had fire from Day 1, when we were at our lowest after years of incompetence. Sure, I understand he was 'improper' at times. And I understand Wojo has the youngest team around (as O'Neill had against Duke). But damn, show some fire. (Afraid you may screw up your future dream job ?) Duane needs a kick up the butt. jJJ needs to go to Div 3. We lost by 30 which could have been 50 ..make a point! Mediocrity can only be accepted for so long.

Fire whiskey in O'Neill doesn't count.  Sojourn has plenty of fire
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: muwarrior97 on February 04, 2017, 03:10:32 PM
I think the FW crowd cancelled today's meeting, stay tuned for the next session
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: tower912 on February 04, 2017, 03:29:39 PM
Fire whiskey in O'Neill doesn't count.  Sojourn has plenty of fire

Hi, Jamie. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 04, 2017, 03:38:33 PM
Hi, Jamie.

Pretty sure this guy defended buzz in another thread. Couldn't be him
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Facts are scary on February 11, 2017, 05:07:07 PM
Trigger warning:
Bump
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: fjm on February 18, 2017, 11:34:25 PM
Cough....


 











Cough.....











Cough
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 19, 2017, 01:10:57 AM
Cough....

Oh don't worry...they'll be back...after the next loss.  Unless MU wins the national championship this year!  They'll they'll be back sometime in November.  Or when he doesn't sign a top rated recruit.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on February 19, 2017, 04:49:34 AM
Live and die by the 3 point shot ...... not a valid NCAA tournament success mantra. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TedBaxter on February 19, 2017, 05:10:11 AM
Live and die by the 3 point shot ...... not a valid NCAA tournament success mantra.

It has to be this year.

Funny that you have Mid Major Mike Deane in you monikor.  He and Dukiet were the 2 laziest piece of crap recruiters MU has had in the last 70 years.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MUDPT on February 19, 2017, 05:56:10 AM
Live and die by the 3 point shot ...... not a valid NCAA tournament success mantra.

Basketball Prospectus did an article a few years ago that showed 3PA was correlated with winning in higher seeded in the tournament.  That's attempts, not makes.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: real chili 83 on February 19, 2017, 06:42:11 AM
Oh don't worry...they'll be back...after the next loss.  Unless MU wins the national championship this year!  They'll they'll be back sometime in November.  Or when he doesn't sign a top rated recruit.

Rocky, you have the power....
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Loose Cannon on February 19, 2017, 10:59:08 AM
Live and die by the 3 point shot ...... not a valid NCAA tournament success mantra.

Is that all you have.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GWSwarrior on February 19, 2017, 01:01:01 PM
Live and die by the 3 point shot ...... not a valid NCAA tournament success mantra.

Many teams have had success in the tournament by this montra look at Jon beilien's teams at WV. That doesn't mean I'm in support of living by the 3, just saying there are instances when it has lead to tournament success
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: dgies9156 on February 19, 2017, 01:06:02 PM
Live and die by the 3 point shot ...... not a valid NCAA tournament success mantra.

Just about the only opinion ole DarkGlasses has said that I agree with.

We will not go past the first round unless Fishy is a bigger part of our offense and we match the threes with a slashing offense.

JjJ has to be engaged and play defense.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on February 19, 2017, 02:36:50 PM
We're the kind of team that no coach is really comfortable facing in a 1-and-done scenario.

We can be playing pretty bad and be down by a dozen. Then we get a 3, a steal, a 3, a stop, a 3 ... and it's a one-possession game in a matter of 30-40 seconds.

Obviously, we can have poor games, too, and we have. I'm just saying we're a confounding bunch.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Babybluejeans on February 19, 2017, 03:07:34 PM
This is exactly the type of team that beats a #1 or 2 seed in the second round of the tourney. Not consistent enough for a sustained run but I would be terrified of us in the tourney as a high seed.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: wadesworld on February 19, 2017, 03:14:29 PM
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but since beating Nova on their worst shooting night in a really, really, really long time at home, we've lost to St. John's, Providence, Butler, and Georgetown and beaten DePaul and a Xavier team without its 2 best players and having their 3rd (or 4th, if you want to say Macura is better than Gaston) limited to 22 minutes while another rotational player went down with an injury in the first half.

I don't think I'd be exactly shaking in my boots about the possibility of facing Marquette if I were a Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon at the moment.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorchick on February 19, 2017, 03:52:07 PM


I don't think I'd be exactly shaking in my boots about the possibility of facing Marquette if I were a Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon at the moment.

I would.

Marquette has proven that on any given day, we can beat the best teams in the country, especially if we start lighting up the threes.

If Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon want to dismiss us, they do so at their own peril.

Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: vogue65 on February 19, 2017, 04:15:42 PM
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but since beating Nova on their worst shooting night in a really, really, really long time at home, we've lost to St. John's, Providence, Butler, and Georgetown and beaten DePaul and a Xavier team without its 2 best players and having their 3rd (or 4th, if you want to say Macura is better than Gaston) limited to 22 minutes while another rotational player went down with an injury in the first half.

I don't think I'd be exactly shaking in my boots about the possibility of facing Marquette if I were a Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon at the moment.

That says a lot, I would add that the game was not officiated in a typical Big East fashion.  It was officiated even handedly, but X was not allowed to employ their usual bullying style (Big East) and therefore, did not impose their will. 

I  think the refs tell the coaches and therefore teams what style of reffing to expect.  The refs did not let much slide by. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jsglow on February 19, 2017, 04:18:01 PM
That says a lot, I would add that the game was not officiated in a typical Big East fashion.  It was officiated even handedly, but X was not allowed to employ their usual bullying style (Big East) and therefore, did not impose their will. 

I  think the refs tell the coaches and therefore teams what style of reffing to expect.  The refs did not let much slide by.

We won because of lousy officiating!  ::)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: vogue65 on February 19, 2017, 04:32:34 PM
We won because of lousy officiating!  ::)

NO, NO, NO.
I  may not be a world class speller, but I  can write.  The officiating was a different style applied even handedly.  That is not the officiating style I  witnessed against St. Johns in NYC.  The problem is that our style of play is not typical Big East basketball. 

When Al McGuire snubed the NCAA tournament in favor of the NIT it was because he did not want to play out of his region.  It had to do with the style of officiating. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on February 19, 2017, 05:40:53 PM
NO, NO, NO.
I  may not be a world class speller, but I  can write.  The officiating was a different style applied even handedly.  That is not the officiating style I  witnessed against St. Johns in NYC.  The problem is that our style of play is not typical Big East basketball. 


Newsflash...college basketball refereeing is inconsistent. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Lennys Tap on February 19, 2017, 06:02:40 PM
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but since beating Nova on their worst shooting night in a really, really, really long time at home, we've lost to St. John's, Providence, Butler, and Georgetown and beaten DePaul and a Xavier team without its 2 best players and having their 3rd (or 4th, if you want to say Macura is better than Gaston) limited to 22 minutes while another rotational player went down with an injury in the first half.

I don't think I'd be exactly shaking in my boots about the possibility of facing Marquette if I were a Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon at the moment.

Wish I could disagree but I'm afraid you're right.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mileskishnish72 on February 19, 2017, 06:20:43 PM
How did Al know how the refs in a different region would officiate?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: wadesworld on February 19, 2017, 06:56:53 PM
I would.

Marquette has proven that on any given day, we can beat the best teams in the country, especially if we start lighting up the threes.

If Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon want to dismiss us, they do so at their own peril.

Unfortunately all we've really proven is that on our home court if our good shooting opponent shoots 6 for 34 from 3 we can take advantage and beat them in the last possession of the game. I'm guessing Jay Wright is willing to concede that in a 1 and done situation if his team shoots 16% from 3 his team is probably on the "done" side of things, whether it's against Marquette or South Carolina.

I hope we get the chance to find out. I guess my point is the Nova game had less to do with us shooting the lights out and more to do with them shooting beyond horrendously, and they still had to give up a 17 point second half lead. To our credit, we took advantage and had a ginormous win. But if I were Jay and saw MU as the 8 seed in my bracket I'm not overly concerned.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on February 19, 2017, 11:12:04 PM
Unfortunately all we've really proven is that on our home court if our good shooting opponent shoots 6 for 34 from 3 we can take advantage and beat them in the last possession of the game. I'm guessing Jay Wright is willing to concede that in a 1 and done situation if his team shoots 16% from 3 his team is probably on the "done" side of things, whether it's against Marquette or South Carolina.

I hope we get the chance to find out. I guess my point is the Nova game had less to do with us shooting the lights out and more to do with them shooting beyond horrendously, and they still had to give up a 17 point second half lead. To our credit, we took advantage and had a ginormous win. But if I were Jay and saw MU as the 8 seed in my bracket I'm not overly concerned.

I hope we get to find out!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 1SE on February 20, 2017, 02:17:49 AM
I would.

Marquette has proven that on any given day, we can beat the best teams in the country, especially if we start lighting up the threes.

If Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon want to dismiss us, they do so at their own peril.

Of course they've also proven on any given day we can lose to some of the worst teams in the country (well, conference).

It's good that we beat X. Now we have to beat the team that clubbed us by 14. It's fun to still be talking about meaningful basketball in late February, but I think if there's one thing we know about this team it's that we can't take any W or L for granted.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: vogue65 on February 20, 2017, 03:32:25 PM
Unfortunately all we've really proven is that on our home court if our good shooting opponent shoots 6 for 34 from 3 we can take advantage and beat them in the last possession of the game. I'm guessing Jay Wright is willing to concede that in a 1 and done situation if his team shoots 16% from 3 his team is probably on the "done" side of things, whether it's against Marquette or South Carolina.

I hope we get the chance to find out. I guess my point is the Nova game had less to do with us shooting the lights out and more to do with them shooting beyond horrendously, and they still had to give up a 17 point second half lead. To our credit, we took advantage and had a ginormous win. But if I were Jay and saw MU as the 8 seed in my bracket I'm not overly concerned.

Unless Voodoo has something to do with it and it probably doesn't.   
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: BM1090 on February 20, 2017, 04:24:47 PM
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but since beating Nova on their worst shooting night in a really, really, really long time at home, we've lost to St. John's, Providence, Butler, and Georgetown and beaten DePaul and a Xavier team without its 2 best players and having their 3rd (or 4th, if you want to say Macura is better than Gaston) limited to 22 minutes while another rotational player went down with an injury in the first half.

I don't think I'd be exactly shaking in my boots about the possibility of facing Marquette if I were a Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon at the moment.

I agree with the 2nd part but I'm done listening to everyone minimizing the Xavier win. We're going to say that they were missing two of their best players? Fine. We were missing one of our best players with a DNC-CD. We're going to say their 4th best player fouled out? Fine. Then I'm going to say arguably our best player in Luke was limited to 12 minutes because he fouled out in limited minutes.

We got nothing from one of our seniors. We got virtually nothing from another senior. Katin played minutes but was mostly inneffective. Our backup center also fouled out. And we won by 22.

Sumner is out for the season. No changing that. But they've had a few games to learn how to play without him. It sucks that Bluiett was out, he's one of my favorite players in the league. But we can't maximize his absence and minimize JJ's DNP.

We destroyed a shorthanded team and we shot below our season average from the field and from 3. Even if you knew for sure that Bluiett was going to be out, nobody here would have guessed a 22 point dismantling while we shot below our season averages and got a total of 31 minutes, 7 points, and 3-10 shooting from our 3 seniors.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: wadesworld on February 20, 2017, 04:30:49 PM
I agree with the 2nd part but I'm done listening to everyone minimizing the Xavier win. We're going to say that they were missing two of their best players? Fine. We were missing one of our best players with a DNC-CD. We're going to say their 4th best player fouled out? Fine. Then I'm going to say arguably our best player in Luke was limited to 12 minutes because he fouled out in limited minutes.

We got nothing from one of our seniors. We got virtually nothing from another senior. Katin played minutes but was mostly inneffective. Our backup center also fouled out. And we won by 22.

Sumner is out for the season. No changing that. But they've had a few games to learn how to play without him. It sucks that Bluiett was out, he's one of my favorite players in the league. But we can't maximize his absence and minimize JJ's DNP.

We destroyed a shorthanded team and we shot below our season average from the field and from 3. Even if you knew for sure that Bluiett was going to be out, nobody here would have guessed a 22 point dismantling while we shot below our season averages and got a total of 31 minutes, 7 points, and 3-10 shooting from our 3 seniors.

If I knew JP Macura would be their best player on the court I would've guessed around a 20 point win at home. We had all players available. Wojo played the guys that gave us our best chance to win.

We played great. We also played a Xavier team that is a shell of what had it ranked in the top 10 early this year. If the squad they had available on Saturday was the squad the had from November on, they'd be fighting it out with DePaul for 10th place in the BE.

Doesn't mean we didn't play well or didn't take advantage of that.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ecompt on February 20, 2017, 04:40:07 PM
NO, NO, NO.
I  may not be a world class speller, but I  can write.  The officiating was a different style applied even handedly.  That is not the officiating style I  witnessed against St. Johns in NYC.  The problem is that our style of play is not typical Big East basketball. 

When Al McGuire snubed the NCAA tournament in favor of the NIT it was because he did not want to play out of his region.  It had to do with the style of officiating.

It was more about playing in the Midwest, far away from MKE,  rather than the Mideast, which took Notre Dame (which beat us by a point in double OT at their place) and Jacksonville (which played nobody all year). The following year we were back in the Mideast and got completely hosed by officials in Athens, Ga.
 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 20, 2017, 05:42:25 PM
Impossible to  to know, but the way I look at it, Blueitt and Sumner's presence would not have amounted to 23 more points for Xavier or 23 less points for us (or some combination of the two). Ergo, it was a good win. If we had only managed a single digit victory I would feel otherwise.

However, it is just one game. Doesn't mean we're better than X. Just outplayed them on Saturday. Could be totally different case when we go down to their place.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on February 20, 2017, 07:45:05 PM
TAMU

It was nice win for the fella's and great weekend for the University. Hard to tell what happens if X is full strength and really does not matter. They took care of the business at hand on Saturday night.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on February 20, 2017, 11:34:46 PM
TAMU

It was nice win for the fella's and great weekend for the University. Hard to tell what happens if X is full strength and really does not matter. They took care of the business at hand on Saturday night.

This.

Any team can only play the opponent on the court. The Warriors could have gone in overconfident, Markus could have missed 9 of 12, etc etc etc. Instead, they did what they had to do.

Next!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: HoopsterBC on February 20, 2017, 11:44:15 PM
This.

Any team can only play the opponent on the court. The Warriors could have gone in overconfident, Markus could have missed 9 of 12, etc etc etc. Instead, they did what they had to do.

Next!

MU came out and did what they had to do,  they have to do the same to the Johnnies.  We saw happened to MU at the Garden,  down 15-7 or so and never climbed
back into the game.  X did make a comeback but for a change MU took the first 4 minutes in the second half and keeped up playing strong the rest of the way.  X
could blow us out at there place and it would not surprise me.   Beating the Johnnies and Providence will decide MU fate to the tourney.  Already beating Creighton
and X has been done, but losing twice to those other two would not good in the eyes of selection committee.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on February 21, 2017, 10:21:14 PM
With a couple of exceptions - which can and will happen to any coach - I think Wojo has had a very good season and has shown a lot of progress as a coach.

The impressive win over the Johnnies was yet another example of him making this his team and getting very positive results from most of the roster.

I am high on this program's future, and Wojo is one of the main reasons why.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on February 22, 2017, 12:49:54 AM
With a couple of exceptions - which can and will happen to any coach - I think Wojo has had a very good season and has shown a lot of progress as a coach.

The impressive win over the Johnnies was yet another example of him making this his team and getting very positive results from most of the roster.

I am high on this program's future, and Wojo is one of the main reasons why.

Wojo only takes the easy rebuilds.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: vogue65 on February 22, 2017, 07:11:40 AM
With a couple of exceptions - which can and will happen to any coach - I think Wojo has had a very good season and has shown a lot of progress as a coach.

The impressive win over the Johnnies was yet another example of him making this his team and getting very positive results from most of the roster.

I am high on this program's future, and Wojo is one of the main reasons why.

Oh what a few weeks can do to public opinion.  Should St. John's leave the Big East?  At least we got some wood burning over the past week, fire is a good thing.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on February 22, 2017, 07:24:17 AM
If only he could coach bigs.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: fjm on February 22, 2017, 07:46:08 AM
Last night was Wojo's 50th win with MU.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on February 22, 2017, 08:06:39 AM
Oh what a few weeks can do to public opinion.  Should St. John's leave the Big East?  At least we got some wood burning over the past week, fire is a good thing.

Few weeks? Try 3 days!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on February 22, 2017, 08:21:38 AM
Oh what a few weeks can do to public opinion. 

My public opinion, stated probably 100+ times in ScoopLand, was one urging patience and expressing optimism regarding Wojo.

So, as the shot blockers say, get that shyte outta here.

Now, it's true that many of our colleagues have been all over the place on our coach's performance and potential. And a deluded few even still insist that Wojo inherited a fine situation from Buzz and ripped him for being unable to accomplish what Jay Wright, Coach K, Calhoun, Al, Rollie, Lefty, Lute, K.O., etc, etc, etc also didn't accomplish early in their coaching careers.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on February 22, 2017, 09:10:56 AM
MU82

I agree with much of you say regarding patience. That said, I really do think how the fella's perform the next couple weeks will tell how much patience should be acceptable. If they play hard and compete I am OK with finding silver lining, regardless of wins or losses. If they stink the joint up, the patience level shrinks for me.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Loose Cannon on February 22, 2017, 10:42:47 AM
MU82

I agree with much of you say regarding patience. That said, I really do think how the fella's perform the next couple weeks will tell how much patience should be acceptable. If they play hard and compete I am OK with finding silver lining, regardless of wins or losses. If they stink the joint up, the patience level shrinks for me.

We'll leave the light on for ya.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on February 22, 2017, 11:00:38 AM
Loose

Huh?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Loose Cannon on February 22, 2017, 02:26:26 PM
Loose

Huh?

Just don't want you to write us off if things go the stinky way for the last 3 games.  I see a lot of good thing this season, no matter what happens in the last 3 game.  I'm all in on the 5 year window.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: T-Bone on February 22, 2017, 02:28:46 PM
Last night was Wojo's 50th win with MU.
Ners would have done that in one season.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on February 22, 2017, 02:37:05 PM
Loose

I am giving Wojo far more patience than I would normally give a coach. That said, if the patience level rises with hard work and competitive two weeks, I think only fair to have things diminish if they stink the joint up. IMO there really is has been some fun moments, but overall a C grade from me. They live and die by the three ball and not how to build long term success, IMO.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: wadesworld on February 22, 2017, 02:45:45 PM
Loose

I am giving Wojo far more patience than I would normally give a coach. That said, if the patience level rises with hard work and competitive two weeks, I think only fair to have things diminish if they stink the joint up. IMO there really is has been some fun moments, but overall a C grade from me. They live and die by the three ball and not how to build long term success, IMO.

Living by the 3 ball is how you win in basketball nowadays.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Loose Cannon on February 22, 2017, 03:03:12 PM
Loose

I am giving Wojo far more patience than I would normally give a coach. That said, if the patience level rises with hard work and competitive two weeks, I think only fair to have things diminish if they stink the joint up. IMO there really is has been some fun moments, but overall a C grade from me. They live and die by the three ball and not how to build long term success, IMO.

Sorry Goose, I'm more patience, I see the glass more than half full, I see Wojo right on track for a MU success.  I'm comfortable with a 5 year window.

I'm sure I can't convince you, but next season there might be more to add to our 3 ball attack.  Anyways "Light On" so we can keep your views on this Board. Thanks
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on February 22, 2017, 03:33:56 PM
Loose

There will not be more three point shooting next year. We can take 50 threes a game and it would not bother me in the least if they knew how to play D. Our live and die by the three this year is magnified by an inability to play D. Play tough D and they can chuck three's all day long.

This year the three ball is the only tool in the tool belt. Hence my giving the season a C.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on February 22, 2017, 03:40:39 PM
There will not be more three point shooting next year. We can 50 threes a game and it would not bother me in the least if they knew how to play D. Our live and die by the three this year is magnified by an inability to play D. Play tough D and they can chuck three's all day long.

Our top three shooters in terms of three-point percentage and makes are back next year. Haanif and Duane are both able shooters who could make up for the losses of JJ and Reinhardt. I'm not saying we'll exceed this year in 2017-18, but it's not impossible, especially if Cain can make threes or we add another grad transfer with range.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on February 22, 2017, 03:48:42 PM
Brew

I know who is back and my point was based off who we are losing. My point was more in general that it would be hard to get off more threes in 40 minute game. I guess it could be equal, but my guess it will be lower. Again, play some hard nose full court D and chuck away.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: HoopsterBC on February 22, 2017, 03:52:34 PM
Our top three shooters in terms of three-point percentage and makes are back next year. Haanif and Duane are both able shooters who could make up for the losses of JJ and Reinhardt. I'm not saying we'll exceed this year in 2017-18, but it's not impossible, especially if Cain can make threes or we add another grad transfer with range.

I agree, will be as good as last year, and still there might be another grad transfer.  If Heldt improves 10% percent more, there might be some inside play as well.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on February 22, 2017, 10:15:49 PM
If anything, we aren't shooting enough 3s this season.

We rank 4th nationally in 3-point pct (.419, just two ticks off of No. 1) but we are only 75th in treys attempted.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorchick on February 22, 2017, 10:19:26 PM
If anything, we aren't shooting enough 3s this season.

We rank 4th nationally in 3-point pct (.419, just two ticks off of No. 1) but we are only 75th in treys attempted.

If you sink them, you don't need as many attempts.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: vogue65 on February 22, 2017, 10:46:19 PM
Living by the 3 ball is how you win in basketball nowadays.

What is the history of the 3 point line?  My recollection is that it was created to give mid-majors a chance to be competitive.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on February 23, 2017, 06:16:03 AM
Living by the 3 ball is how you win in basketball nowadays.

Hmm...of the top 40 teams in the country in terms of getting there highest percentage of their points beyond the arc, only 3 (Michigan, Marquette, Notre Dame) are ranked in the top 40 in the country.

I looked at offensive efficiency, and those three were the only three that were top 40 in both percentage of points beyond the arc and offensive efficiency.

Living by the three may be one way to win, but it's certainly not the only nor most popular way. FWIW, there are five teams in the top 40 that have sub-300 adjusted offensive efficiency rankings.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: vogue65 on February 23, 2017, 06:47:47 AM
Hmm...of the top 40 teams in the country in terms of getting there highest percentage of their points beyond the arc, only 3 (Michigan, Marquette, Notre Dame) are ranked in the top 40 in the country.

I looked at offensive efficiency, and those three were the only three that were top 40 in both percentage of points beyond the arc and offensive efficiency.

Living by the three may be one way to win, but it's certainly not the only nor most popular way. FWIW, there are five teams in the top 40 that have sub-300 adjusted offensive efficiency rankings.

Of the teams that will play in the NCAA tournament, and are not in the top 40, how many of them are 3 point shooting teams?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: T-Bone on February 23, 2017, 08:01:05 AM

(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/3/38/Abe.png)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on February 23, 2017, 09:05:29 AM
Of the teams that will play in the NCAA tournament, and are not in the top 40, how many of them are 3 point shooting teams?

I'm not sure what you are asking. Too vague.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on February 23, 2017, 09:10:02 AM
If you sink them, you don't need as many attempts.

It's what we do best by far, Khaleesi. Our lads should be firing up more of 'em!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: vogue65 on February 23, 2017, 09:20:25 AM
I'm not sure what you are asking. Too vague.

Most teams in the NCAA are from top conferences and are highly rated.  Then we have the other teams mostly from minor conferences.
Of those teams how many made it to the tournament by being good or outstanding 3 point shooting teams.

My theory is that Wojoe went on a recruiting kick to bring in gunners who could shoot.  Considering that last year we had a lack of shooting ability compared to this year, his strategy has worked, so far. 

Your analysis that shows that only 3 teams in the top 40 are outstanding 3 point shooting teams is well taken.  Now how about the other teams, the mid-majors, or whatever we want to call them.   

My point is that the 3 point line was initiated to let those teams be competitive with one or two gunners. 

The, in-the-mean-time strategy of MU has worked.  As we put together a more balanced attack we play 3 ball.  Am I, "statistically speaking"  off the beam?

No need to make fun of my years spent in the Vogue world, it made me very vague, ha.  Thanks.

Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 23, 2017, 09:42:00 AM
Most teams in the NCAA are from top conferences and are highly rated.  Then we have the other teams mostly from minor conferences.
Of those teams how many made it to the tournament by being good or outstanding 3 point shooting teams.

My theory is that Wojoe went on a recruiting kick to bring in gunners who could shoot.  Considering that last year we had a lack of shooting ability compared to this year, his strategy has worked, so far. 

Your analysis that shows that only 3 teams in the top 40 are outstanding 3 point shooting teams is well taken.  Now how about the other teams, the mid-majors, or whatever we want to call them.   

My point is that the 3 point line was initiated to let those teams be competitive with one or two gunners. 

The, in-the-mean-time strategy of MU has worked.  As we put together a more balanced attack we play 3 ball.  Am I, "statistically speaking"  off the beam?

No need to make fun of my years spent in the Vogue world, it made me very vague, ha.  Thanks.

This is one possibility... the other is that he saw Golden State wipe the floor with everybody in the NBA and said "Hey what if we did that in college"
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on February 23, 2017, 09:47:58 AM
The purpose of loading your teams with three point shooters isn't just so you can get more points from shooting three, but the threat of the three opens up driving lanes and the inside game.  The problem with Marquette is that, while the shooting has been great, the inside scoring hasn't always been as effective.

Put another way, you need to have multiple, serious threats from the outside to win in college basketball (or in the NBA for that matter.)  That doesn't mean that outside shooting is the only way that these threats will help improve your scoring.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Loose Cannon on February 23, 2017, 09:59:16 AM
This is one possibility... the other is that he saw Golden State wipe the floor with everybody in the NBA and said "Hey what if we did that in college"

I think it's more of a carryover from Coach K. I would expect it to be a Big part of Wojo's  teams going forward. If he can recruit them.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: vogue65 on February 24, 2017, 07:18:27 AM
I think it's more of a carryover from Coach K. I would expect it to be a Big part of Wojo's  teams going forward. If he can recruit them.

How true, making MU great again, we could be scary good.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Herman Cain on February 24, 2017, 10:41:53 PM
I still cling to the notion that Stan can get us to the promised land faster than his boss
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 25, 2017, 05:07:52 AM
How true, making MU great again,  we could be scary good.

  never thought of "the donald" as a basketball coach, but then again, weirder things have happened, ey ey eyn'er hey?  betcha the term "all american" will be the next term needing to be changed ::)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 25, 2017, 06:11:02 AM
What is the history of the 3 point line?  My recollection is that it was created to give mid-majors a chance to be competitive.

actually it was first developed/introduced in 1945 by abe saperstein in an NCAA game between fordam and columbia.  so i guess it lasted only one game at this level.  then the american basketball became the first league to institute it in 1961 followed by the eastern professional league in 1963-64 and later popularized by the ABA in 1967-68.  the NBA adopted it in 1979-80.  the NCAA's southern conference was the first collegiate conference to adopt it in 1980-81.  the NCAA as a whole didn't adopt it as a whole until 1986-87.  followed by high schools, junior and elementary schools

the main theory was to give the smaller player a chance to score from the outside and thus, opening up the inside to provide more scoring and to enhance the fans overall experience

i didn't see anything related to giving the "mid-majors" a chance at anything specific, but basketball as a whole. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mcderjim on February 25, 2017, 05:54:38 PM
Bump ...
Senior class leadership sucks ! Undeveloped talent or just don't care.  At least Cohen and Wilson just sucked as Bball players
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: CTWarrior on February 25, 2017, 05:56:32 PM
the main theory was to give the smaller player a chance to score from the outside and thus, opening up the inside to provide more scoring and to enhance the fans overall experience

I think a big part of it was to provide a way for skill to beat sheer size. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ATWizJr on February 25, 2017, 06:01:08 PM
I still cling to the notion that Stan can get us to the promised land faster than his boss

Agreed!  Fire the incompetent so he can find a job for which he is suited,,, ASSistant coach!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Snowflake on February 25, 2017, 06:02:21 PM
There are losers and winners and I think we are all tired of losing and blowing games. The blame needs to be put where it belongs. Sorry if this offends/triggers you.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 25, 2017, 06:05:59 PM
And here we are again 

Lose a road big east game = fire wojo

win = you guys never post.

The criticism is not that you are not allowed to voice your opinion.  Many of us just wonder why you never seem to voice an opinion that seems to be enjoying MU hoops?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorchick on February 25, 2017, 06:07:23 PM
There are losers and winners and I think we are all tired of losing and blowing games. The blame needs to be put where it belongs. Sorry if this offends/triggers you.

F*ck off, one poster.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: CTWarrior on February 25, 2017, 06:09:13 PM
And here we are again 

Lose a road big east game = fire wojo

win = you guys never post.

The criticism is not that you are not allowed to voice your opinion.  Many of us just wonder why you never seem to voice an opinion that seems to be enjoying MU hoops?

It's not so much that we lost, it's how we lost.  Play hard and lose by 8 and you say, "well that's the way it goes."  But the way we lose many of these game is just infuriating and you want to blame someone, and it feels better to get angry with the guy getting paid 7 figures rather than 17-22 year olds. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 1SE on February 25, 2017, 06:09:49 PM
F*ck off, one poster.

If only our team played with this kind of fire...
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 1SE on February 25, 2017, 06:11:08 PM
Wojo can still meet expectations for the season, but his margin for error is now obviously smaller.

Just SSSSOOO frustrating that this could easily be a 22-6 team and we're talking about if we're going to be a protected seed or not.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Snowflake on February 25, 2017, 06:12:17 PM
F*ck off, one poster.

Triggered. Can't handle the truth. Didn't mean to intrude on your safe space.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ATWizJr on February 25, 2017, 06:13:11 PM
And here we are again 

Lose a road big east game = fire wojo

win = you guys never post.

The criticism is not that you are not allowed to voice your opinion.  Many of us just wonder why you never seem to voice an opinion that seems to be enjoying MU hoops?
maybe our expectations are higher than yours.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 25, 2017, 06:16:04 PM
Triggered. Can't handle the truth. Didn't mean to intrude on your safe space.

You know snowflake, you chose a bad day to come here and start throwing crap.  You can call it triggered if you like, but I call it a ban hammer!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on February 25, 2017, 06:17:34 PM
maybe our expectations are higher than yours.

That really has nothing to do with his point.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 79Warrior on February 25, 2017, 06:20:05 PM
Hmm...of the top 40 teams in the country in terms of getting there highest percentage of their points beyond the arc, only 3 (Michigan, Marquette, Notre Dame) are ranked in the top 40 in the country.

I looked at offensive efficiency, and those three were the only three that were top 40 in both percentage of points beyond the arc and offensive efficiency.

Living by the three may be one way to win, but it's certainly not the only nor most popular way. FWIW, there are five teams in the top 40 that have sub-300 adjusted offensive efficiency rankings.

Need to mix in some solid D to go with the shooting.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Eye on February 25, 2017, 06:21:42 PM
For MU to be 22-6 right now they'd had to have won every game decided by 7 points or less. So 8-0 in those games. They're 3-5. To say they should maybe be a win better right now because of too many close losses is plenty realistic. But gotta factor in tight wins over Fresno, nova and SH at home when determining how MU has been in close games this year. 3-2 in those games at home. 0-3 in those games road/neutral.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ATWizJr on February 25, 2017, 06:23:12 PM
maybe our expectations are higher than yours.
maybe we don't scream ecstatically every time we win a game we're supposed too but are bitterly disappointed when we blow a 12 point lead in a must win game.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: shoothoops on February 25, 2017, 06:24:39 PM
Need to mix in some solid D to go with the shooting.

More players with lateral quickness would help.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: CTWarrior on February 25, 2017, 06:26:28 PM
For MU to be 22-6 right now they'd had to have won every game decided by 7 points or less. So 8-0 in those games. They're 3-5. To say they should maybe be a win better right now because of too many close losses is plenty realistic. But gotta factor in tight wins over Fresno, nova and SH at home when determining how MU has been in close games this year. 3-2 in those games at home. 0-3 in those games road/neutral.

I think the best you could realistically say if we won the four games we blew (Pitt, @Butler, @SHU, @Prov) and lost the one we stole (Nova) we'd be 20-8.  And even saying we blew the SHU game is a stretch, as we had a lead late but not more than a one possession lead.  But unfortunately, we are what our record says we are.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: vogue65 on February 25, 2017, 06:26:43 PM
We may be good, we may be skilled, but we are not yet intimidators.  A few years and a little more ink and we will be fine.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 25, 2017, 06:27:21 PM
maybe we don't scream ecstatically every time we win a game we're supposed too but are bitterly disappointed when we blow a 12 point lead in a must win game.

I think you quoted the wrong post.  But not targeted at you.  There are a few that ONLY post here to exclaim they'd like to fire wojo or that something is wrong with the program. 

I've got plenty of patience for people willing to discuss things reasonably.  None for people that just register today to throw sh*t.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Class71 on February 25, 2017, 06:31:11 PM
F*ck off, one poster.

I agree but would not use the same words. MU played hard under difficult conditions against a desperate team on their home court. MU has work to do on defense but there has been improvement. The season is not over. I have been very critical of Wojo but he deserves credit for pulling this team together. Not all losses are the same. I am optimistic this team can win the next two if they just reduce the number of simple mistakes.

I am keeping the faith.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 1SE on February 25, 2017, 06:33:53 PM
I think the best you could realistically say if we won the four games we blew (Pitt, @Butler, @SHU, @Prov) and lost the one we stole (Nova) we'd be 20-8.  And even saying we blew the SHU game is a stretch, as we had a lead late but not more than a one possession lead.  But unfortunately, we are what our record says we are.

I'm not trying to say what we *should* be, just what this team, with this talent, *could* have been. We've never seen shooters like this at MU. And more likely than not we're not going to the tourney. That's sad.

I'm no Ners, but I did play a bit of HS ball. I had a pretty atrocious shooting form, but I was one hell of a defender (I set the school record for charges drawn). That's what's so frustrating about this team - Yes it's easier to be a better defender if you're a freak of an athlete, but at  the end of the day you don't need an inordinate amount of skill to be a good (or at least passable) defender. You just need work ethic. You can teach work ethic.

If anyone should know this it's Wojo. Not a particularly good athlete but tough as nails. Why this doesn't transmit to his team is beyond me.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 25, 2017, 06:48:02 PM
You should tell it like it is and stop suppressing the voice of others who think differently than you. Qualities of a dictator tying to influence other people's thoughts. Advancing your own agenda.

Seems like you're the triggered one mate. Making a a new account minutes after you got banned? Not a good look.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 25, 2017, 08:01:12 PM
You know snowflake, you chose a bad day to come here and start throwing crap.  You can call it triggered if you like, but I call it a ban hammer!
Thank you
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 25, 2017, 08:06:38 PM
Hero ball results in another loss.  JJ's layup that somehow rolled out and Sam's wide-open three miss were very good shots.  Katin's dribbling-away-from-the-basket-turnaround-fade-away in the face of two tight defenders when THE TEAM'S TWO BEST SHOOTERS ARE COMPELETLY UNGUARDED ON THE PERIMETER? Not smart.

Hero ball seldom works.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Class71 on February 25, 2017, 09:26:52 PM
F*ck off, one poster.

I agree but would not use the same words. MU played hard under difficult conditions against a desperate team on their home court. MU has work to do on defense but there has been improvement. The season is not over. I have been very critical of Wojo but he deserves credit for pulling this team together. Not all losses are the same. I am optimistic this team can win the next two if they just reduce the number of simple mistakes.

I am keeping the faith.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Newsdreams on February 26, 2017, 09:15:05 PM
You know snowflake, you chose a bad day to come here and start throwing crap.  You can call it triggered if you like, but I call it a ban hammer!
Short lived fame he had just made Scoop Takes
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Uncertain on February 27, 2017, 01:56:28 PM


I set the school record for charges drawn

Wojo? Flopper? Slappy? Is that you Steve?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 27, 2017, 02:37:28 PM
Wojo? Flopper? Slappy? Is that you Steve?
How's it going Snowflake/Rocky Deez Nuts?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jsglow on February 27, 2017, 02:49:42 PM
You know snowflake, you chose a bad day to come here and start throwing crap.  You can call it triggered if you like, but I call it a ban hammer!

Wow, I had missed this.  Hadn't seen that my wife had reached her scoop breaking point and I sincerely appreciate you in essence sticking up for her and others of the same mindset and dropping the hammer.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GoldenDieners32 on February 27, 2017, 02:52:29 PM
And here we are again 

Lose a road big east game = fire wojo

win = you guys never post.

The criticism is not that you are not allowed to voice your opinion.  Many of us just wonder why you never seem to voice an opinion that seems to be enjoying MU hoops?
Ahhh so true
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: tower912 on February 27, 2017, 02:59:48 PM
Complainers and whiners with nary a positive thing to say.    Just that their unrealistic expectations aren't being met and they need to vent.    Sob.    Sniffle.   It's not fair.     It is sad that so many never actually get past the tantrum throwing phase any more.    They just take to the anonymity of their keyboard and indulge their inner 4 year old.   
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: wadesworld on February 27, 2017, 03:06:12 PM
There are losers and winners and I think we are all tired of losing and blowing games. The blame needs to be put where it belongs. Sorry if this offends/triggers you.

At some point it has to come down to the team being able to put the ball in the basket, right?  Like, even if we all agreed 100% that Wojo is the worst D1 basketball coach in America and is 100% in over his head, somehow somebody has to be able to put the ball in the basket at least one time over the final nearly 8:00 of basketball, no?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: skianth16 on February 27, 2017, 03:42:28 PM
You know snowflake, you chose a bad day to come here and start throwing crap.  You can call it triggered if you like, but I call it a ban hammer!

Wow. You really felt the need to ban someone over something that small? Seems a bit excessive...
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on February 27, 2017, 04:15:04 PM
Wow. You really felt the need to ban someone over something that small? Seems a bit excessive...

Second time he has banned someone with a similar name for similar posts.  Not a problem by me.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 27, 2017, 05:05:33 PM
Wow. You really felt the need to ban someone over something that small? Seems a bit excessive...

My guess is that the combination of multi accounts, attacks on other posters, and use of politics is what "triggered" the ban hammer. (See what I did there?)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Herman Cain on February 27, 2017, 05:07:34 PM
My guess is that the combination of multi accounts, attacks on other posters, and use of politics is what "triggered" the ban hammer. (See what I did there?)
Chicos is still posting.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: dgies9156 on February 27, 2017, 05:14:35 PM
Rocky -- can we lock this one until after the sea?

I know I am not optimistic about our chances this year, but debating Wojo should be an after-the-season issue. And, it seems like this is getting more and more personal and less analytical.

Can we do the same thing with a couple of other similar threads?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Big Noggin AL on February 27, 2017, 05:50:10 PM
Rocky -- can we lock this one until after the sea?

I know I am not optimistic about our chances this year, but debating Wojo should be an after-the-season issue. And, it seems like this is getting more and more personal and less analytical.

Can we do the same thing with a couple of other similar threads?

So you just want to silence opinions that have truth to them..? Doesn't seem very intelligent to me...
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: dgies9156 on February 27, 2017, 08:56:40 PM
So you just want to silence opinions that have truth to them..? Doesn't seem very intelligent to me...

C'mon Big Noggin. What could possibly be said that hasn't been said?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: naginiF on February 27, 2017, 10:10:21 PM
So you just want to silence opinions that have truth to them..? Doesn't seem very intelligent to me...
it's more wanting to silence those who do not want to engage in dialogue.  those whom are only here as antagonists should be banned regardless of if there is a mote of truth in their posts - that is a clear indication that they are trolls (or sociopaths) and not wanting to benefit from, or add to, the MUBB community.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocket surgeon on February 28, 2017, 04:54:20 AM
Chicos is still posting.

nope-i asked him...he has standards too ya know.  he may look, but doesn't touch
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Herman Cain on February 28, 2017, 06:23:35 AM
nope-i asked him...he has standards too ya know.  he may look, but doesn't touch
It depends on the definition of look is. LOL.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on February 28, 2017, 07:58:08 AM
At some point it has to come down to the team being able to put the ball in the basket, right?  Like, even if we all agreed 100% that Wojo is the worst D1 basketball coach in America and is 100% in over his head, somehow somebody has to be able to put the ball in the basket at least one time over the final nearly 8:00 of basketball, no?
Bingo.  Everyone can lay all the blame on Wojo and the rest of the coaching staff (except Stan of course, who will be the next head coach), but if ONE shot falls in the last 8 minutes, this thread is a few pages shorter and Wojo's trending in the right direction with an away victory. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 28, 2017, 08:06:50 AM
Bingo.  Everyone can lay all the blame on Wojo and the rest of the coaching staff (except Stan of course, who will be the next head coach), but if ONE shot falls in the last 8 minutes, this thread is a few pages shorter and Wojo's trending in the right direction with an away victory.

I agree with this, but it sure feels like this has been brought up multiple games - so what is noise and what is a trend.

IMO the results are the results at this point - no explaining them away. 

Need to win a few more this year, hopefully dance and do better next year.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: muwarrior69 on February 28, 2017, 08:36:23 AM
I agree with this, but it sure feels like this has been brought up multiple games - so what is noise and what is a trend.

IMO the results are the results at this point - no explaining them away. 

Need to win a few more this year, hopefully dance and do better next year.

Have to know how to dance before you can go to the dance. Just saying.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on February 28, 2017, 08:44:59 AM
Have to know how to dance before you can go the dance. Just saying.

You've obviously never seen me at a wedding.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MerrittsMustache on February 28, 2017, 08:48:01 AM
Have to know how to dance before you can go the dance. Just saying.

Should the team get drunk? That always helps my dancing skills.

Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorchick on February 28, 2017, 09:10:00 AM
Should the team get drunk? That always helps my dancing skills.


(http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk414/MohntoniteRW/anonymous-beer-helping-white-guys-d.jpg)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on March 01, 2017, 10:19:15 PM
All of you on the fire WOJO bandwagon can go outside and play hide and go F yourselves. We dancin'.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on March 01, 2017, 10:20:28 PM
Don't worry.  They won't be seen tonight.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 01, 2017, 10:38:19 PM
This thread and the what if mu loses their next two games thread looks awfully stupid now.  Wojo , as does any third year coach, has some things to improve on but the provi let down n other gripes have really been out of his hands
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on March 01, 2017, 10:39:41 PM
This thread and the what is mu loses their next two games thread looks awfully stupid now.  Wojo , as does any third year coach, has some things to improve on but the provi let down n other gripes have really veen out of his hands

I refused to even bite on that idiotic hypothetical. Where was the "what if we win the next two" thread?

Peeps need to appreciate this very nice turnaround that Wojo is undertaking. If not, take an effen hike.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Newsdreams on March 01, 2017, 10:43:07 PM
All of you on the fire WOJO bandwagon can go outside and play hide and go F yourselves. We dancin'.
We won because Xavier played lousy, couldn't make their 3's, plus we only won by 11, fire Wojo!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GB Warrior on March 01, 2017, 10:43:33 PM
I think we're in a great spot to recruit Shaka now.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: fjm on March 01, 2017, 11:18:00 PM
We won because Xavier played lousy, couldn't make their 3's, plus we only won by 11, fire Wojo!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wojo didn't even coach the team. Rumor is Sacar did. Fire Wojo. Hire Sacar. ;)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on March 01, 2017, 11:21:55 PM
Start it now, why not ?  Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?

Why not?

Because you're a douche who knows less than zero about basketball!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: fjm on March 01, 2017, 11:22:40 PM
Why not?

Because you're a douche who knows less than zero about basketball!

Dude you reached WAAAAY back for that quote.

And I appreciate it. Don't ever change 8-).
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on March 01, 2017, 11:25:32 PM
Dude you reached WAAAAY back for that quote.

And I appreciate it. Don't ever change 8-).

Hey, I do what I can.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Loose Cannon on March 01, 2017, 11:27:25 PM
maybe our expectations are higher than yours.

With your Coaching talent, I can understand your expectations.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 01, 2017, 11:33:22 PM
Hey, I do what I can.

Plenty of free time walking 2 miles.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/ukcuGHAuY2aGY/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: muwarrior69 on March 04, 2017, 03:57:02 PM

(http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk414/MohntoniteRW/anonymous-beer-helping-white-guys-d.jpg)

Chick, did you sneak a keg into the locker room?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 04, 2017, 04:07:38 PM
Don't worry.  They won't be seen tonight.
No warriorfan 14?  No mayfairskatingrink?  No Mike Deane's Dark Glasses?  SAD!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 1SE on March 04, 2017, 04:09:46 PM
So let's start talking contact extension
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 04, 2017, 04:17:41 PM
No warriorfan 14?  No mayfairskatingrink?  No Mike Deane's Dark Glasses?  SAD!

Do us all a favor and throw a 6 month ban hammer on each em, Rocky!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorchick on March 04, 2017, 05:02:16 PM
Chick, did you sneak a keg into the locker room?

No need, my friend. These guys have rhythm.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Holly Ellenson is my Mom on March 05, 2017, 08:54:34 AM
Does Wojo deserve Big East Coach of the Year?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Loose Cannon on March 05, 2017, 10:12:59 AM
Does Wojo deserve Big East Coach of the Year?

Not yet, more work to do.  Let's keep him as long as we can.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on March 05, 2017, 10:20:40 AM
Does Wojo deserve Big East Coach of the Year?

I'm a Wojo fan, and if I were voting, he'd be fourth behind Holtmann, Cooley, and Wright.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Marquette Fan in WI on March 17, 2017, 10:55:15 PM
Wanted to save someone else the effort in finding this.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorchick on March 18, 2017, 08:06:38 AM
Wanted to save someone else the effort in finding this.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/11R5KYi6ZdP8Z2/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 18, 2017, 09:08:22 AM
I agree,  for all the people bitchin about wojo i think he did a fantastic job.  This team is woefully flawed in so many areas and to make it to the NCAA tournament is a testament to his will and ability to drag this team past its deficiencies.

no PG, no 4, and no 5 and little athleticism n we are discussing an ncaa tournament game.   Who else did as much with as little?  9th or 10th best talent in the BE.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Warrior_2002 on March 18, 2017, 09:12:04 AM
Yeah I would think the bugs coming in next year will help immensely.  Only problem is they will be freshmen so it might require a little bit of patience again.  But we are headed in the right direction.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 18, 2017, 09:32:28 AM
Yeah I would think the bugs coming in next year will help immensely.  Only problem is they will be freshmen so it might require a little bit of patience again.  But we are headed in the right direction.

What will Wojo do to prepare for the infestation?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Loose Cannon on March 18, 2017, 08:13:10 PM
I agree,  for all the people bitchin about wojo i think he did a fantastic job.  This team is woefully flawed in so many areas and to make it to the NCAA tournament is a testament to his will and ability to drag this team past its deficiencies.

no PG, no 4, and no 5 and little athleticism n we are discussing an ncaa tournament game.   Who else did as much with as little?  9th or 10th best talent in the BE.

Brutal, no sugar coating, But I have to agree. Bare Bones Analysis in a nut shell.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ecompt on March 18, 2017, 08:46:23 PM
Next year is so big in so many ways. Without an NCAA bid, MU is going to have a very, very hard time selling more expensive tickets in a brand new arena. Students don't give a crap, and alumni may find it tougher to swallow a price increase if the team falls back somewhat next year. Lot of pressure on the incoming class. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on March 18, 2017, 08:55:27 PM
Next year is so big in so many ways. Without an NCAA bid, MU is going to have a very, very hard time selling more expensive tickets in a brand new arena. Students don't give a crap, and alumni may find it tougher to swallow a price increase if the team falls back somewhat next year. Lot of pressure on the incoming class. 


Top 25 in attendance.  Stop being a chicken little.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: VegasWarrior77 on March 18, 2017, 09:01:02 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/11R5KYi6ZdP8Z2/giphy.gif)
+1
Great minds think alike.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: chico stick on March 12, 2018, 12:14:10 AM
Probably a good time to bump this.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Clam Crowder on March 12, 2018, 09:08:44 AM
Probably a good time to bump this.

If you are an idiot then yeah. If you want to lose Markus, Sam, Joey, etc. transferring out because their head coach changed then you probably need to go evaluate your mental health....

When Buzz left the cupboard emptied, if Wojo leaves the cupboard he has been building empties and we re-start....If you honestly want that instead of seeing what happens next year then you are an idiot. I can't sugarcoat it even if I try to.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: WayOfTheWarrior on March 12, 2018, 09:14:02 AM
Probably a good time to bump this.

A first post for the ages
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Ardmore Mug on March 12, 2018, 09:16:07 AM
Probably a good time to bump this.

Another addition to the IGNORE list
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on March 12, 2018, 09:22:44 AM
If you are an idiot then yeah. If you want to lose Markus, Sam, Joey, etc. transferring out because their head coach changed then you probably need to go evaluate your mental health....

When Buzz left the cupboard emptied, if Wojo leaves the cupboard he has been building empties and we re-start....If you honestly want that instead of seeing what happens next year then you are an idiot. I can't sugarcoat it even if I try to.

Yup. Entirely possible Wojo isn't the guy. If we're on the bubble next year, even if we make it, I can see firing up this thread. We should be discussing seeding and not inclusion in 2019. But that's another discussion for another time. Hopefully one we'll never need to have.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: dgies9156 on March 12, 2018, 09:28:27 AM
If you are an idiot then yeah. If you want to lose Markus, Sam, Joey, etc. transferring out because their head coach changed then you probably need to go evaluate your mental health....

When Buzz left the cupboard emptied, if Wojo leaves the cupboard he has been building empties and we re-start....If you honestly want that instead of seeing what happens next year then you are an idiot. I can't sugarcoat it even if I try to.

Brother Clam, I agree with you. We stay with Wojo long enough to see if the results will be there. I'm disappointed with this year, but if we start over with a new coach, it's three to five years before we're relevant. In the meantime, if Greg Gard is the answer at the red rodent, then we lose the recruiting headway we have in our home turf to that miserable rodent in Madison.

"Trust the process" is wearing thin, but we need to give it another year to see if it works.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on March 12, 2018, 09:40:20 AM
dgies

I normally agree with your comments, but not firing a guy because you could take a step backwards is not solid reasoning, IMO. I would not fire Wojo, but not because a fear of losing guys. Programs can be turned around quickly, regardless of what some on here believe.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Its DJOver on March 12, 2018, 09:46:25 AM
dgies

I normally agree with your comments, but not firing a guy because you could take a step backwards is not solid reasoning, IMO. I would not fire Wojo, but not because a fear of losing guys. Programs can be turned around quickly, regardless of what some on here believe.
Agree that you shouldn't fire out of fear of losing players, coaches should stick around a lot longer than players.  However, when one of those players is likely to become the programs all time leading scorer, and probably pre season 1st team all Big East, another player could very easily be all Big East and another player is a 5* freshman, it would make you think twice. If you're going to fire someone you have to be 100% sure they're not the guy.  Wojo hasn't proved he can get the job done yet, but I'm not 100% convinced that he can't.  When I am, I'll call for him to step down. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on March 12, 2018, 09:48:47 AM
DJOver

We agree again. Good post!!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 12, 2018, 09:51:33 AM
Agree that you shouldn't fire out of fear of losing players, coaches should stick around a lot longer than players.  However, when one of those players is likely to become the programs all time leading scorer, and probably pre season 1st team all Big East, another player could very easily be all Big East and another player is a 5* freshman, it would make you think twice. If you're going to fire someone you have to be 100% sure they're not the guy.  Wojo hasn't proved he can get the job done yet, but I'm not 100% convinced that he can't.  When I am, I'll call for him to step down.

I agree and think most people are here with a slight bias to optimism or pessimism depaending on their theory of the case.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on March 12, 2018, 10:02:36 AM
dgies

I normally agree with your comments, but not firing a guy because you could take a step backwards is not solid reasoning, IMO. I would not fire Wojo, but not because a fear of losing guys. Programs can be turned around quickly, regardless of what some on here believe.

Agree that you shouldn't fire out of fear of losing players, coaches should stick around a lot longer than players.  However, when one of those players is likely to become the programs all time leading scorer, and probably pre season 1st team all Big East, another player could very easily be all Big East and another player is a 5* freshman, it would make you think twice. If you're going to fire someone you have to be 100% sure they're not the guy.  Wojo hasn't proved he can get the job done yet, but I'm not 100% convinced that he can't.  When I am, I'll call for him to step down. 

I agree with all of this. I'm more optimistic than some (obviously) but I'm not sold yet. The next two years will determine a lot, though if next year is as tense on Selection Sunday as this one was, we shouldn't need the second year.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: IrwinFletcher on March 12, 2018, 10:09:35 AM
I would give him two years as you have two full seasons with:

Markus, Sam, Cain, GE, Theo, Morrow and Joey.

That is a ton of talent. If they squeak in next year as a 10 seed and win a game in the tourney,that should be enough to build on with the whole team coming back again.

I am like others that I am not convinced Wojo is the guy, but he has done well enough to get two more seasons with this roster.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: bilsu on March 12, 2018, 10:20:09 AM
I would give him two years as you have two full seasons with:

Markus, Sam, Cain, GE, Theo, Morrow and Joey.

That is a ton of talent. If they squeak in next year as a 10 seed and win a game in the tourney,that should be enough to build on with the whole team coming back again.

I am like others that I am not convinced Wojo is the guy, but he has done well enough to get two more seasons with this roster.
I think people here should be more realistic about our talent level. None of the players listed above would of started on this year's Villanova team.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 12, 2018, 10:24:59 AM
I think people here should be more realistic about our talent level. None of the players listed above would of started on this year's Villanova team.

Sam could have easily started over Paschall and Booth.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on March 12, 2018, 10:25:50 AM
I think people here should be more realistic about our talent level. None of the players listed above would of started on this year's Villanova team.

And I think people here should be more realistic about the probability of Wojo getting fired after next season, especially if we get into the NCAAs (whether or not by "sneaking in").
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: WayOfTheWarrior on March 12, 2018, 10:27:10 AM
I think people here should be more realistic about our talent level. None of the players listed above would of started on this year's Villanova team.

Possibly, but we're talking about talent that can get us a top 3-4 finish in the conference and a 6ish seed in the tournament...Not at a Nova level yet, but a big step forward.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: LoudMouth on March 12, 2018, 10:29:14 AM
Wojo is currently sitting here
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwLBZPKg5YhyWLO3LT7XNMV8WO8ZZ2eoIWHNx_GUDJAq_vcDVF)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 12, 2018, 10:33:15 AM
A first post for the ages

No way that's a first-time poster.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 12, 2018, 10:35:10 AM
Wojo is currently sitting here
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwLBZPKg5YhyWLO3LT7XNMV8WO8ZZ2eoIWHNx_GUDJAq_vcDVF)

Yep, and he will be until the day he is fired.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: muwarrior69 on March 12, 2018, 11:08:53 AM
Wojo is currently sitting here
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwLBZPKg5YhyWLO3LT7XNMV8WO8ZZ2eoIWHNx_GUDJAq_vcDVF)

This thread ...a story of Ice and Fire.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 12, 2018, 11:19:12 AM
This thread ...a story of Ice and Fire.

(http://www.rootskiumc.org/uploads/2/6/9/0/26908756/blades-glory_orig.jpg)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 12, 2018, 11:41:07 AM
Like Diamond and Silk, ahuh/that's right, aina?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: skianth16 on March 12, 2018, 11:43:42 AM
If you are an idiot then yeah. If you want to lose Markus, Sam, Joey, etc. transferring out because their head coach changed then you probably need to go evaluate your mental health....

When Buzz left the cupboard emptied, if Wojo leaves the cupboard he has been building empties and we re-start....If you honestly want that instead of seeing what happens next year then you are an idiot. I can't sugarcoat it even if I try to.

Drink!

Was this part of a talking points memo that I missed? Good lord, that phrase comes up a lot.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 12, 2018, 11:47:16 AM
Drink!

Was this part of a talking points memo that I missed? Good lord, that phrase comes up a lot.

Okay, what could you have done with a team comprised of Derrick Wilson, Steve Taylor, Sandy Cohen, JJJ when he still had a broken shot and only half a season of Luke Fischer?

Car3no and Duane did all they could that year.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: skianth16 on March 12, 2018, 12:07:35 PM
Okay, what could you have done with a team comprised of Derrick Wilson, Steve Taylor, Sandy Cohen, JJJ when he still had a broken shot and only half a season of Luke Fischer?

Car3no and Duane did all they could that year.

I'm in no way saying Wojo walked into a team with a stacked roster. I think he had an uphill battle coming in. I just think it's funny how often that specific phrased gets used. It's like there was a PR note that went out to half the board that encouraged posters to stress the bare cupboard scenario if there are ever critiques about the rebuild.

For any Titus fans out there, this feels like the "good guy" they always talk about. It's the talking point that is always reverted to in order to lessen the sting of the current situation. "Bare cupboard" and "trust the process" are our "good guy" buzzwords. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jesmu84 on March 12, 2018, 12:16:29 PM
dgies

I normally agree with your comments, but not firing a guy because you could take a step backwards is not solid reasoning, IMO. I would not fire Wojo, but not because a fear of losing guys. Programs can be turned around quickly, regardless of what some on here believe.

Such as? And please define "quickly".

And have these programs demonstrated long-term success?

TAMU (I think it was him...) did a TON of research on program-building.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: wojoswarrior on March 12, 2018, 12:21:09 PM

Here's an enlightening article for all of you impatient Scoopers who are itching to dump Wojo

http://www.star-telegram.com/latest-news/article204184964.html
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on March 12, 2018, 12:22:01 PM
jesmu

I read TAMU's book report and was not overly impressed. Basically he cited examples to match the five year plan he preaches. Without doing any digging, I would say the Ohio State guy did a pretty good job this year. He did not inherit a great deal of talent and I think was hired in the summer, which gave him no time to recruit.

Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: NickelDimer on March 12, 2018, 12:24:59 PM
Here's an enlightening article for all of you impatient Scoopers who are itching to dump Wojo

http://www.star-telegram.com/latest-news/article204184964.html
Reads like a strong case for why we shouldn’t have messed with Buzz’s happiness
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 12, 2018, 12:25:45 PM
Agree that you shouldn't fire out of fear of losing players, coaches should stick around a lot longer than players.  However, when one of those players is likely to become the programs all time leading scorer, and probably pre season 1st team all Big East, another player could very easily be all Big East and another player is a 5* freshman, it would make you think twice. If you're going to fire someone you have to be 100% sure they're not the guy.  Wojo hasn't proved he can get the job done yet, but I'm not 100% convinced that he can't.  When I am, I'll call for him to step down.

Well said.  I agree completely.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MUBurrow on March 12, 2018, 12:28:28 PM
Reads like a strong case for why we shouldn’t have messed with Buzz’s happiness

Counterpoint: Buzz is Pitt and Marquette is Jamie Dixon.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: tower912 on March 12, 2018, 12:29:49 PM
Here's an enlightening article for all of you impatient Scoopers who are itching to dump Wojo

http://www.star-telegram.com/latest-news/article204184964.html
My argument when both Crean and Buzz left was that the wrong hire turns Marquette I to Depaul.   Now, the wrong hire turns us into Pitt.  Many tired of Buzz.  Most now acknowledge he is a better coach than Wojo.  Maybe Wojo is fired and MU gets the next Stallings.   Or Howland.  Or Martin.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: NickelDimer on March 12, 2018, 12:32:38 PM
Counterpoint: Buzz is Pitt and Marquette is Jamie Dixon.
I think Buzz is and will continue to do quite well for himself and won’t be surprised to see him land a better gig than Va Tech in the near future. Pitt otoh...
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on March 12, 2018, 12:35:19 PM
jesmu

I read TAMU's book report and was not overly impressed. Basically he cited examples to match the five year plan he preaches. Without doing any digging, I would say the Ohio State guy did a pretty good job this year. He did not inherit a great deal of talent and I think was hired in the summer, which gave him no time to recruit.


His starting line up consisted of a three year starting senior, a two year starting senior, a two year starting redshirt junior, a sophomore who played quite a bit as a freshman and one of the top freshmen from Ohio.

Not to take anything away from Holtmann, who is obviously a good coach, but he had a great deal of experience coming back in a conference that clearly had a down year.

Instead of sitting back and making a bunch of snarky, passive aggressive comments, maybe you should do your homework.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on March 12, 2018, 12:38:38 PM
sultan

For the five year plan group there is zero chance of citing an example that works with them. The Ohio State sucked two years and the coach was canned due to declining talent. New guy did pretty well with group.

As for snarky, not my intent. I was not impressed with TAMU's post and thought it was very one sided. That is my opinion, not trying to be snarky. I think TAMU is the best of the young posters, by a VERY wide margin.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Floorslapper on March 12, 2018, 12:44:08 PM
sultan

For the five year plan group there is zero chance of citing an example that works with them. The Ohio State sucked two years and the coach was canned due to declining talent. New guy did pretty well with group.

As for snarky, not my intent. I was not impressed with TAMU's post and thought it was very one sided. That is my opinion, not trying to be snarky. I think TAMU is the best of the young posters, by a VERY wide margin.

Goose - Pay Sultan no mind.  Sultan has no business calling out others for being snarky and passive aggressive. It's his standard operating procedure here.  Once a blue moon he'll actually make a relevant and astute post/observation.  But.  It is rare.

Holtmann is obviously a stud coach.  Clearly hasn't needed the excuses at Butler, and now OSU, that our most graceful fans extend to Wojo still now 4 years in.  When you can coach, you can coach.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Its DJOver on March 12, 2018, 12:50:31 PM
I always thought that Holtmann was a great coach, and if Nova weren't a perennial 1 or 2 seed that Holtmann could have gotten coach of the year multiple times when it was fairly given to Wright.  While I want MU to do better than BU, I really think that Jordan is the biggest question mark in the conference.  He's a Butler guy, but two of the last three Butler guys were far above average coaches, and despite the beatdown they gave us in MKE, I haven't seen a ton that Jordan will be able to sustain the success that Holtmann had.

Holtmann= Great coach, would love it if Wojo can become as good as him, just get the feeling that BU may be seen as a stepping stone job the same way some view MU.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on March 12, 2018, 12:52:15 PM
sultan

For the five year plan group there is zero chance of citing an example that works with them. The Ohio State sucked two years and the coach was canned due to declining talent. New guy did pretty well with group.

As for snarky, not my intent. I was not impressed with TAMU's post and thought it was very one sided. That is my opinion, not trying to be snarky. I think TAMU is the best of the young posters, by a VERY wide margin.


Ok sorry for my response. 

I just think Holtmann walked into a very good situation. An experienced team in a conference that was down. Especially for a coach who also has had plenty of experience as a head coach.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 12, 2018, 01:18:04 PM
Reads like a strong case for why we shouldn’t have messed with Buzz’s happiness
No one got tired of Buzz winning.  Keeping Buzz happy, however, would have entailed allowing him to continue recruit kids like Mayo (stole stuff from his own teammates iirc) and other continued brushes with the law.  VT is a better fit for that.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: NickelDimer on March 12, 2018, 01:22:59 PM
No one got tired of Buzz winning.  Keeping Buzz happy, however, would have entailed allowing him to continue recruit kids like Mayo (stole stuff from his own teammates iirc) and other continued brushes with the law.  VT is a better fit for that.
I think is notion is overblown. How many players “like Mayo” did Buzz sign at MU? Buzz may not have been squeaky clean but he also didn’t run a dirty program
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 12, 2018, 01:24:57 PM
No one got tired of Buzz winning.  Keeping Buzz happy, however, would have entailed allowing him to continue recruit kids like Mayo (stole stuff from his own teammates iirc) and other continued brushes with the law.  VT is a better fit for that.

Minus the whole sexual assault thing, that was proven to have no merit according to the MPD, the only other thing I've heard is a bar fight.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MomofMUltiples on March 12, 2018, 02:04:47 PM
Be honest with yourselves, people.  Buzz is long gone and is never coming back.  So as much as you like to reminisce about the old days, who's the REAL alternative were the University to fire Wojo?  And how fast will said alternative meet your "expectations?"
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Hubert Davis on March 12, 2018, 02:18:50 PM
Wojo is not the answer. 4 years in and he has still yet to win a game in the NCAA tournament and we're sitting here in year 4 in the NIT and talking about "next year". Chalk him up as a "miss". Marquette deserves better. They're spending big $ on a low return. That's called a LOSER.

There are better coaches out there. Time to cut our losses.

FIRE WOJO!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: SERocks on March 12, 2018, 02:20:06 PM
Be honest with yourselves, people.  Buzz is long gone and is never coming back.  So as much as you like to reminisce about the old days, who's the REAL alternative were the University to fire Wojo?  And how fast will said alternative meet your "expectations?"

This is a true statement.  Not a Wojo fan, but would like to have the same coach for a number of years and give him the chance to develop a program.  Wojo isn't terrible.  Just isn't really great either.  Or flashy or anything.  Just what the administration wanted.  Now as much as I hate to say it, I think we need to give him another five years or so to see if he can be a lifetime type of guy.  He has the lineage to fulfill such a role.  And loyalty would go both ways I suspect, he would recognize the administration giving him a leash and might stick around once he gets it all.  Well, here's to hoping anyway.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: skianth16 on March 12, 2018, 02:20:40 PM
Be honest with yourselves, people.  Buzz is long gone and is never coming back.  So as much as you like to reminisce about the old days, who's the REAL alternative were the University to fire Wojo?  And how fast will said alternative meet your "expectations?"

The frustration about Wojo is that the above shouldn't have to be considered a selling point for a coach at Marquette. This is what some might call putting lipstick on a pig. Just because there isn't a long list of coaches openly looking for new jobs doesn't make Wojo a better coach. As fans of a program that had a ncie stretch of playing winning basketball prior to Wojo's arrival, it's disappointing to have to resort to the old "it could be worse" kind of reasoning when talking about the state of the program.

He deserves the coming year; there's no doubt about that. But if he doesn't show some marked improvement with a deep roster in a league that will be taking a step back, there will be legitimate cause for concern by the powers that be.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 12, 2018, 02:25:17 PM
jesmu

I read TAMU's book report and was not overly impressed. Basically he cited examples to match the five year plan he preaches. Without doing any digging, I would say the Ohio State guy did a pretty good job this year. He did not inherit a great deal of talent and I think was hired in the summer, which gave him no time to recruit.

https://painttouches.com/2018/02/19/a-brief-history-of-the-modern-college-basketball-rebuild/

I didn't make an argument one way or the other. I literally just listed all coaching rebuilds in the one and one era and what the results were. At the end I made three comparisons, one positive (Tony Bennett) and two negative (Herb Sendek and Anthony Grant). I didn't cite any specific examples, I cited all the examples.

As for Ohio State, they weren't included because they haven't had their first tournament streak yet. But as for your claim that "he didn't inherit a ton of talent":

4/5 of his starters were on last year's squad getting at least 19 mpg....his 5th starter was a freshman that he didn't recruit but had already signed his LOI and attended class at OSU so he couldn't transfer without penalty...plus his brother is on the team. He also took the highest rated player from his recruiting class at Butler with him to OSU.

All that being said, he did a bang up job this year and did better than I or any other pundit expected to. I just don't believe comparing the situation Holtmann walked into and the situation Wojo walked into is fair....though what he did at Butler was fantastic.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: dgies9156 on March 12, 2018, 02:25:48 PM
Wojo is not the answer. 4 years in and he has still yet to win a game in the NCAA tournament and we're sitting here in year 4 in the NIT and talking about "next year". Chalk him up as a "miss". Marquette deserves better. They're spending big $ on a low return. That's called a LOSER.

There are better coaches out there. Time to cut our losses.

FIRE WOJO!!!!!!!

No.

Not yet. We need improvement, yes. But fire.... I want at least one more year to see what's in the tank.

The biggest problem any coach has is teaching defense. Dean Smith, in his autobiography, "A Coaches Life" talked about it and the one player he had that figured it out almost immediately -- Michael Jordan. That's why Al didn't like to start most freshmen and why his seniors were his stars.

Look at the year-over-year improvement in Matt Heldt. I'll agree, he is still work in progress, but he improved. With another year and some work with Marcus, Greg and even Sacar, I hope we will get better.

You win with defense in the NCAA (just ask Virginia). If we work on our defense and defensive tactics, next year should be different. If not, his seat WILL be warm. It has to be. Money is involved.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: skianth16 on March 12, 2018, 02:33:44 PM

You win with defense in the NCAA (just ask Virginia). If we work on our defense and defensive tactics, next year should be different. If not, his seat WILL be warm. It has to be. Money is involved.

Didn't Wojo say after last season that defense was going to be a priority over the summer?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 12, 2018, 02:43:41 PM
I was having a thought about this topic. My assumption is that because we theoretically only lose Heldt at the end of next season, we would be even better the following season and that would help keep Wojo's job. But another way to think about it is, Howard and Hauser are unlikely to transfer as seniors (and by extension Joey is unlikely to transfer), so would it be strategic to fire Wojo in a year that would be less likely to result in mass transfers so the next coach can walk into a better situation? My guess is that Buzz benefited long term from having the 3 amigos his first year.

Now to be clear, I'm not advocating Wojo be fired. But if next season is another outside the tournament then maybe it would be wise.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MomofMUltiples on March 12, 2018, 02:56:15 PM
The frustration about Wojo is that the above shouldn't have to be considered a selling point for a coach at Marquette. This is what some might call putting lipstick on a pig. Just because there isn't a long list of coaches openly looking for new jobs doesn't make Wojo a better coach. As fans of a program that had a ncie stretch of playing winning basketball prior to Wojo's arrival, it's disappointing to have to resort to the old "it could be worse" kind of reasoning when talking about the state of the program.

He deserves the coming year; there's no doubt about that. But if he doesn't show some marked improvement with a deep roster in a league that will be taking a step back, there will be legitimate cause for concern by the powers that be.

I wasn’t making a “it could be worse” argument. I was asking an honest question: since everyone seems to want to compare Wojo to Buzz and Buzz as a replacement isn’t an option. Who do you think is an option, and how would Marquette go about attracting him/her?  Given that you (and many fans, including myself) consider Marquette a top program, could we attract a successful head coach from a high major or low major D1 program?  Another high-major assistant? A successful D-2 coach?

As an executive, I have very little patience for people who bring me complaints without recommendations on how to resolve them.  If Wojo is not the answer, who, realistically, is?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: skianth16 on March 12, 2018, 03:01:37 PM
I was having a thought about this topic. My assumption is that because we theoretically only lose Heldt at the end of next season, we would be even better the following season and that would help keep Wojo's job. But another way to think about it is, Howard and Hauser are unlikely to transfer as seniors (and by extension Joey is unlikely to transfer), so would it be strategic to fire Wojo in a year that would be less likely to result in mass transfers so the next coach can walk into a better situation? My guess is that Buzz benefited long term from having the 3 amigos his first year.

Now to be clear, I'm not advocating Wojo be fired. But if next season is another outside the tournament then maybe it would be wise.

I'm sure there are numbers out there, but when coaches leave, I'm pretty sure the majority of the players stay. Coaches are going to schools with rosters that are mostly complete, so they can't just take 8 guys with them. Plus, once guys get to campus, they settle into a life there, and that has to be a selling point as well, assuming they are enjoying life on campus. Plus, when a good new coach comes in, don't you think they have a sales pitch ready for the team? They know they have to convince certain guys to stay, and I'm sure they come in prepared to do what they can to retain talent.

If Wojo got canned today and was replaced by an outsider, I bet we'd keep the majority of the roster. I'm not advocating for that, but I don't think his departure would lead to the loss of a significant portion of the team.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Litehouse on March 12, 2018, 03:07:45 PM
I wasn’t making a “it could be worse” argument. I was asking an honest question: since everyone seems to want to compare Wojo to Buzz and Buzz as a replacement isn’t an option. Who do you think is an option, and how would Marquette go about attracting him/her?  Given that you (and many fans, including myself) consider Marquette a top program, could we attract a successful head coach from a high major or low major D1 program?  Another high-major assistant? A successful D-2 coach?

As an executive, I have very little patience for people who bring me complaints without recommendations on how to resolve them.  If Wojo is not the answer, who, realistically, is?

I'm cool with Wojo.  However, if they decided to fire him today, one potential replacement candidate might be TJ Otzelberger from South Dakota St.  Milwaukee native that has the Jackrabbits in the NCAAs for the 2nd straight year.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: skianth16 on March 12, 2018, 03:25:13 PM
I wasn’t making a “it could be worse” argument. I was asking an honest question: since everyone seems to want to compare Wojo to Buzz and Buzz as a replacement isn’t an option. Who do you think is an option, and how would Marquette go about attracting him/her?  Given that you (and many fans, including myself) consider Marquette a top program, could we attract a successful head coach from a high major or low major D1 program?  Another high-major assistant? A successful D-2 coach?

As an executive, I have very little patience for people who bring me complaints without recommendations on how to resolve them.  If Wojo is not the answer, who, realistically, is?

As an executive, do you prefer employees who accept problems simply because they couldn't solve them right away? The issue needs to be raised before it can be solved. Maybe it needs to be raised before it gets to your desk, but pointing out the problem is always the first step.

As fans, we aren't going to have the kind of list that the MU admins have, but it seems pretty reasonable that we would be able to call up a pretty significant number of coaches and pique their interest. Successful or promising mid-major coaches are prime targets for power 6 schools - Dan Hurley (URI), Earl Grant (CofC), Kermit Davis (MTSU), Eric Musselman (Nevada) all seem like reasonable options. Then there are power 6 coaches that might be looking for a change of scenery or even assistants, but fans are probably not likely to know those kind of guys. Do you think any Indiana fans were talking about snagging Tom Crean back in 2008?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: IrwinFletcher on March 12, 2018, 03:28:25 PM
I think people here should be more realistic about our talent level. None of the players listed above would of started on this year's Villanova team.

Seeing only two of the above were starters on OUR team, you might be right.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: IrwinFletcher on March 12, 2018, 03:33:18 PM

Ok sorry for my response. 

I just think Holtmann walked into a very good situation. An experienced team in a conference that was down. Especially for a coach who also has had plenty of experience as a head coach.

OSU beat Michigan MSU and Purdue.  Three really nice wins.  And that is it.  Non conference was awful as any big opponent they had they lost.  Holtman was also a former Head Coach, so has some experience as the top guy.  Can’t compare one year of a guy vs. 4 years.  Holtman may wind up being great, but I wouldn’t offer him a lifetime contract just yet.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on March 12, 2018, 03:36:12 PM
Irwin

MU could have hired a HC and did not. That does not change the expectations to me.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on March 12, 2018, 03:40:05 PM
OSU beat Michigan MSU and Purdue.  Three really nice wins.  And that is it.  Non conference was awful as any big opponent they had they lost.  Holtman was also a former Head Coach, so has some experience as the top guy.  Can’t compare one year of a guy vs. 4 years.  Holtman may wind up being great, but I wouldn’t offer him a lifetime contract just yet.

I like Holtmann, but I agree with this. We haven't seen what he can do with his own guys and if he can sustain. I suspect he can and will, but he hasn't been anywhere long enough to prove that just yet.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 12, 2018, 03:51:43 PM
Wojo is not the answer. 4 years in and he has still yet to win a game in the NCAA tournament and we're sitting here in year 4 in the NIT and talking about "next year". Chalk him up as a "miss". Marquette deserves better. They're spending big $ on a low return. That's called a LOSER.

There are better coaches out there. Time to cut our losses.

FIRE WOJO!!!!!!!
Hello Mike Deane's Dark Glasses
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: skianth16 on March 12, 2018, 03:59:11 PM
I like Holtmann, but I agree with this. We haven't seen what he can do with his own guys and if he can sustain. I suspect he can and will, but he hasn't been anywhere long enough to prove that just yet.

Not to pick on you Brew, but this response is representative of the 5 year plan crew to a T. When another head coach succeeds, there are always these caveats that knock them down a little and points made about flaws. However, when talking about Wojo, the way his performance is reviewed and critiqued is far, far different. I think fair points have been made about coaches like Holtmann, Smart, Buzz, McDermott, Cooley, and others, but the lens with which those coaches are critiqued is vastly different than the lens Wojo is viewed through.

There are a lot of people on this board who know basketball inside and out, can talk strategy, advanced stats, player development, etc very well, but when it comes to Wojo there seems to be a disconnect from the reality that forms other opinions. Reading through threads about where Wojo stacks up compared to other Big East coaches or how our team compares to others, there is a ton of great analysis and points made about areas where others fall short. But when some of these same fans review our season or our coach, the analysis and objectivity are all but gone. Of course as fans, we're going to be less objective when it comes to MU, but too often the response to an objective comment about our team is met with defensive responses because there is some need felt to defend Wojo from criticism.

I think the kool-aid has weakened a little this year, but it's still pretty strong for some.

Jes - this falls squarely in my 3%-5%
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 12, 2018, 04:14:39 PM
Hello Mike Deane's Dark Glasses

Close... but try "Al Davis"
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MomofMUltiples on March 12, 2018, 04:15:15 PM
Skianth,

In my work I believe that only the thorniest problems should ever reach my desk, and when they do and they are not an emergency they should have already been well-vetted by my staff and others and at least have process recommendations attached to them.  Too many people want to identify problems and wait for others to solve them.  As MU82 has been preaching all season with respect to Wojo, if you say he has to be successful and he's not, then what will you do?  If you say he needs to be fired and he isn't, what will you do?

Frankly, most programs not named Duke, Kansas, or Kentucky are going to see down years and inconsistent year over year results.  Are you a fan because of your deep attachment to the University, or are you a fan because we win?  If it is the latter, you may want to shift your allegiance to one of those three programs.  We aren't winning enough for you now, I understand.  Sometimes getting rid of alleged underperformers can solve problems.  Other times, it's simply time and patience that brings results.

Thank goodness for Anonymous Eagle, who perfectly summed up my feelings on this - my team has a chance to play more games and I am excited to watch them play.  I am excited for the promise of next season.  And I accept the decisions of Pres. Lovell and AD Scholl, as their expertise and judgement in this area are far superior to mine.  I just want to see the kids compete.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jesmu84 on March 12, 2018, 04:19:28 PM
Not to pick on you Brew, but this response is representative of the 5 year plan crew to a T. When another head coach succeeds, there are always these caveats that knock them down a little and points made about flaws. However, when talking about Wojo, the way his performance is reviewed and critiqued is far, far different. I think fair points have been made about coaches like Holtmann, Smart, Buzz, McDermott, Cooley, and others, but the lens with which those coaches are critiqued is vastly different than the lens Wojo is viewed through.

There are a lot of people on this board who know basketball inside and out, can talk strategy, advanced stats, player development, etc very well, but when it comes to Wojo there seems to be a disconnect from the reality that forms other opinions. Reading through threads about where Wojo stacks up compared to other Big East coaches or how our team compares to others, there is a ton of great analysis and points made about areas where others fall short. But when some of these same fans review our season or our coach, the analysis and objectivity are all but gone. Of course as fans, we're going to be less objective when it comes to MU, but too often the response to an objective comment about our team is met with defensive responses because there is some need felt to defend Wojo from criticism.

I think the kool-aid has weakened a little this year, but it's still pretty strong for some.

Jes - this falls squarely in my 3%-5%

Ha!

Interestingly, I have no problems with anything you said here.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 12, 2018, 04:22:08 PM
Minus the whole sexual assault thing, that was proven to have no merit according to the MPD, the only other thing I've heard is a bar fight.

Just because MPD didn't file charges does NOT mean it has no merit. It happened during the age of covering up sexual scandals at universities
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: skianth16 on March 12, 2018, 04:39:05 PM
In my work I believe that only the thorniest problems should ever reach my desk, and when they do and they are not an emergency they should have already been well-vetted by my staff and others and at least have process recommendations attached to them.  Too many people want to identify problems and wait for others to solve them.  As MU82 has been preaching all season with respect to Wojo, if you say he has to be successful and he's not, then what will you do?  If you say he needs to be fired and he isn't, what will you do?

Like all fans, I have no control over who coaches the team I root for. Whether I buy tickets next year or not doesn't matter to the university. If I stop donating, they won't notice. My actions next year, like most fans, don't mean anything to the university. I will be a fan of Marquette basketball no matter who coaches the team and no matter who eventually plays for the team. That doesn't mean that the coach in place in any given year is a good coach or the right choice.

I don't think fans are in any place to make ultimatums to the university over who coaches a team. That's dumb. it's also something that very few people here have done. I don't think that fans need to like a guy just because he's the coach of the team you like, though. I don't think Wojo being the coach of the team we root for makes him above criticism either. I want him to be successful because that makes Marquette successful, but I don't think just being a fan of Marquette means that I should simply ignore and accept his current shortcomings.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 12, 2018, 04:48:52 PM
Skianth,  I disagree with your general premise. I see what you are saying but I think you misunderstand a lot of the "wojo backers." I don't know that you would find a single one who will say "Wojo is a stud he will get it done." I can't speak for others but all I have every tried to preach is patience. I give examples of why it could work out. I give examples of why it couldn't. Honestly,  I give more of the former because there are plenty who are convinced Wojo is a dud and few who think he's a stud. If it was the opposite,  I would be doing the reverse.

I'm not sure the divide is between pro and anti wojo but more in our view on sports. I think there are those who switch back and forth between optimistic and pessimistic with every win and loss. They feel the highest highs and the lowest lows. Other fans are more reserved and cautious with their approach. Neither is better,  just different styles

Even though I don't see eye to eye with Guru often,  my guess is that there is no better fan then him when we win. I can only imagine unbridled joy. Goose I respect the hell out of even though we see the rebuild very differently. He is rightly not overly impressed with individual victories and is always looking at the program as a whole.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 12, 2018, 04:54:30 PM
  Keeping Buzz happy, however, would have entailed allowing him to continue recruit kids like Mayo (stole stuff from his own teammates iirc).

Actually that was Patrick Hazel, a Tom Crean recruit.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on March 12, 2018, 05:26:24 PM
TAMU

You are correct. I am much more concerned with a solid foundation long term over individual wins. My biggest concern remains, how solid is the foundation and the ability to compete on national stage. Beating SH in Jan means little to me if it is a blip on the screen.

As you know, I am all in giving Wojo another year. If he proves foundation is there, hope he is here a long time. If not, I wish him good luck in the future. I have said many times, I do not care who the coach is as long they win on national stage.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Herman Cain on March 12, 2018, 05:45:49 PM
I always thought that Holtmann was a great coach, and if Nova weren't a perennial 1 or 2 seed that Holtmann could have gotten coach of the year multiple times when it was fairly given to Wright.  While I want MU to do better than BU, I really think that Jordan is the biggest question mark in the conference.  He's a Butler guy, but two of the last three Butler guys were far above average coaches, and despite the beatdown they gave us in MKE, I haven't seen a ton that Jordan will be able to sustain the success that Holtmann had.

Holtmann= Great coach, would love it if Wojo can become as good as him, just get the feeling that BU may be seen as a stepping stone job the same way some view MU.
Lavall's team is in the tournament. Lavall has Jordan Tucker a very strong shooter transferring in from Duke next year. Lavall was a proven recruiter at Michigan and will likely continue to do well.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: D'Lo Brown on March 12, 2018, 05:47:19 PM
Any concerns over Wojo's feelings now that he knows this is a 16 page thread?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 12, 2018, 05:49:07 PM
Actually that was Patrick Hazel, a Tom Crean recruit.
Todd stole from his teammates.  Patrick stole from fellow a student's ATM account.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Its DJOver on March 12, 2018, 05:52:04 PM
Lavall's team is in the tournament. Lavall has Jordan Tucker a very strong shooter transferring in from Duke next year. Lavall was a proven recruiter at Michigan and will likely continue to do well.
He also had all of holtmamns players this year and only won 4 conference games before the conference tourney his one year being a head coach before butler. I hope he does well, but he was not proven it to me yet.  Of coarse neither has wojo.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Floorslapper on March 12, 2018, 06:02:59 PM
I wasn’t making a “it could be worse” argument. I was asking an honest question: since everyone seems to want to compare Wojo to Buzz and Buzz as a replacement isn’t an option. Who do you think is an option, and how would Marquette go about attracting him/her?  Given that you (and many fans, including myself) consider Marquette a top program, could we attract a successful head coach from a high major or low major D1 program?  Another high-major assistant? A successful D-2 coach?

As an executive, I have very little patience for people who bring me complaints without recommendations on how to resolve them.  If Wojo is not the answer, who, realistically, is?

So as an “executive” you stick with an at best marginal performer in your most visible business unit because you fear you might not be able to find better than mediocre? 

Do you believe in your company/your business/your team?  If you do, you expect you can recruit/land better than mediocre.

Fear based leadership isn’t exactly, leadership.

Stan Johnson would at minimum be a lateral hire. Legitimately he couldn’t do worse than Wojo has done, and he is our ace recruiter.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MUBurrow on March 12, 2018, 06:22:14 PM
To the extent there's a divide, I definitely fall into the "wojo backer" category. Anything better than 7 conference wins and I would want to see him get at least another year. If there is a significant injury, the 7 wins isn't even close to a firm number.

My patience is born of wanting to see a successful coach here for a long time. With the number of head coaching jobs that are more desirable than Marquette on paper, and the turnover of head coaches, we need intangibles to make that happen. Patience and willingness to grow with a coach can be a heck of an intangible.  Sure we can get trigger happy and try to back the money truck up to the hot mid major coach every 4 years, but easy come, easy go. Even if that coach hits enough early success to make us happy, that coach will also never stick around at MU for more than a couple solid tournament runs. But you weather some early down years with a young coach, you really give him and his family time to settle in and call Milwaukee home, now you might be getting somewhere.

And Floorslapper, et al can drop "Fear based leadership" ( ::) ::) ::)) on this all he wants, but being deranged about where you stand vis-a-vis your competition is no better.  At the risk of allowing a conversation centered around the nonsensical business metaphor to continue, a lot of very successful smaller companies don't recruit at the very top schools, don't churn their employees for the highest marginal results and don't try to hold their job openings out to offer the same things as Fortune 100 companies, because they'll fail. Instead they recognize their competitive advantage and play to that, often prioritizing long term stability over short term profit.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MomofMUltiples on March 12, 2018, 06:26:42 PM
Ahh, Ners, as if you could intimidate me by “questioning” my position in the C-suite.  Unlike you, I know not to stick my nose into issues that I know little about. I trust the MU leadership to determine if/when a coach becomes a marginal performer, not someone who dunked once. Love to watch this team play and watch these boys grow. My happiness isn’t decided by an NCAA berth.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: real chili 83 on March 12, 2018, 06:34:47 PM
So as an “executive” you stick with an at best marginal performer in your most visible business unit because you fear you might not be able to find better than mediocre? 

Do you believe in your company/your business/your team?  If you do, you expect you can recruit/land better than mediocre.

Fear based leadership isn’t exactly, leadership.

Stan Johnson would at minimum be a lateral hire. Legitimately he couldn’t do worse than Wojo has done, and he is our ace recruiter.

Ners, how did you come to this conclusion?  She said nothing of this sort.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on March 12, 2018, 06:46:22 PM
Ahh, Ners, as if you could intimidate me by “questioning” my position in the C-suite.  Unlike you, I know not to stick my nose into issues that I know little about. I trust the MU leadership to determine if/when a coach becomes a marginal performer, not someone who dunked once. Love to watch this team play and watch these boys grow. My happiness isn’t decided by an NCAA berth.


Just don’t DARE start question the philosophy behind the fro-yo flavor of the day selection.

That’s a bridge too far!!!!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 12, 2018, 06:57:06 PM
Actually that was Patrick Hazel, a Tom Crean recruit.
Oh, my bad.  I thought Mayo got nailed with that as well.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: real chili 83 on March 12, 2018, 07:06:32 PM
Mayo was a pig with women too.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on March 12, 2018, 07:07:04 PM
Mayo was a pig with women too.

He squealed? 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Floorslapper on March 12, 2018, 07:11:35 PM
Ners, how did you come to this conclusion?  She said nothing of this sort.

I interpreted Mom's repeated posts mentioning her concern over staying the course because of, essentially, the following logic:  If not Wojo, then who?

Ahh, Ners, as if you could intimidate me by “questioning” my position in the C-suite.  Unlike you, I know not to stick my nose into issues that I know little about. I trust the MU leadership to determine if/when a coach becomes a marginal performer, not someone who dunked once. Love to watch this team play and watch these boys grow. My happiness isn’t decided by an NCAA berth.

Then why are you posting in this thread?  Your C-level leadership style, you asked that someone bring you a solution - instead of complaining.

I gave you Stan Johnson as just one potential solution.  There's Tom Crean.  Thad Matta.  A guy like Kermit Davis at MTSU.  Chris Beard got hired away from Arkansas Little Rock to Texas Tech. Brian Wardle is doing a really good job rebuilding Bradley. Countless examples. 

Do you believe we have the facilities, budget, and commitment to basketball that are reflective of a Top 25 program?  If so, why would you think we couldn't attract a solid coach with a track record of success at a mid-major, or out of work high major coach like Crean or Matta?

Look, I enjoy watching this team play too.  It is a fun brand of basketball.  Unfortunately, we should be in the NCAA with the elite talent we have on this team, not the NIT - and that is on the coach.

You realize that there are only 5 Power 5 teams in college basketball to be in the Top 20 in 3pt shooting percentage AND attempts?  You know the 5?

Nova
Kansas
Purdue
MSU
Marquette 

One is not like the other.  Coaching matters.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorchick on March 12, 2018, 07:15:15 PM
So as an “executive” you stick with an at best marginal performer in your most visible business unit because you fear you might not be able to find better than mediocre? 

Do you believe in your company/your business/your team?  If you do, you expect you can recruit/land better than mediocre.

Fear based leadership isn’t exactly, leadership.

Stan Johnson would at minimum be a lateral hire. Legitimately he couldn’t do worse than Wojo has done, and he is our ace recruiter.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/396460a8255e020f0d22f186051018a8/tenor.gif?itemid=7441740)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on March 12, 2018, 07:16:12 PM
I interpreted Mom's repeated posts mentioning her concern over staying the course because of, essentially, the following logic:  If not Wojo, then who?

Then why are you posting in this thread?  Your C-level leadership style, you asked that someone bring you a solution - instead of complaining.

I gave you Stan Johnson as just one potential solution.  There's Tom Crean.  Thad Matta.  A guy like Kermit Davis at MTSU.  Chris Beard got hired away from Arkansas Little Rock to Texas Tech. Brian Wardle is doing a really good job rebuilding Bradley. Countless examples. 

Do you believe we have the facilities, budget, and commitment to basketball that are reflective of a Top 25 program?  If so, why would you think we couldn't attract a solid coach with a track record of success at a mid-major, or out of work high major coach like Crean or Matta?

Look, I enjoy watching this team play too.  It is a fun brand of basketball.  Unfortunately, we should be in the NCAA with the elite talent we have on this team, not the NIT - and that is on the coach.

You realize that there are only 5 Power 5 teams in college basketball to be in the Top 20 in 3pt shooting percentage AND attempts?  You know the 5?

Nova
Kansas
Purdue
MSU
Marquette 

One is not like the other.  Coaching matters.

Lol. So this is your new obscure stat that you learned about just yesterday but will still use to suit your argument huh?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Floorslapper on March 12, 2018, 07:29:41 PM
Lol. So this is your new obscure stat that you learned about just yesterday but will still use to suit your argument huh?

Obscure stat?  I'd say it is pretty telling, when the NCAA seed of the four other teams to accomplish the feat are a 1,1,2, and 3.   



Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on March 12, 2018, 07:41:29 PM
Obscure stat?  I'd say it is pretty telling, when the NCAA seed of the four other teams to accomplish the feat are a 1,1,2, and 3.   


Nah.  You do this all the time.  You find some stat that makes Wojo look bad and all of the sudden you use it like you invented it.  But have you used it before?  Nope.  Will you use it again?  Nope.

It's intellectually lazy.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Floorslapper on March 12, 2018, 08:01:27 PM

Nah.  You do this all the time.  You find some stat that makes Wojo look bad and all of the sudden you use it like you invented it.  But have you used it before?  Nope.  Will you use it again?  Nope.

It's intellectually lazy.

Huh?  I didn't read this stat elsewhere.  I came up with it this morning in response to Golden Avalanche's snarky question in another thread.

Granted, I was alarmed last season that we barely snuck into the tourney, despite being the Number 1, 3-pt shooting team in the country, while being 38th in attempts.

We all know eFG% reigns supreme and the prolific 3-ball shooting is a huge component of eFG%

The rest of your above point make zero intellectual sense.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Herman Cain on March 12, 2018, 08:05:47 PM
I interpreted Mom's repeated posts mentioning her concern over staying the course because of, essentially, the following logic:  If not Wojo, then who?

Then why are you posting in this thread?  Your C-level leadership style, you asked that someone bring you a solution - instead of complaining.

I gave you Stan Johnson as just one potential solution.  There's Tom Crean.  Thad Matta.  A guy like Kermit Davis at MTSU.  Chris Beard got hired away from Arkansas Little Rock to Texas Tech. Brian Wardle is doing a really good job rebuilding Bradley. Countless examples. 

Do you believe we have the facilities, budget, and commitment to basketball that are reflective of a Top 25 program?  If so, why would you think we couldn't attract a solid coach with a track record of success at a mid-major, or out of work high major coach like Crean or Matta?

Look, I enjoy watching this team play too.  It is a fun brand of basketball.  Unfortunately, we should be in the NCAA with the elite talent we have on this team, not the NIT - and that is on the coach.

You realize that there are only 5 Power 5 teams in college basketball to be in the Top 20 in 3pt shooting percentage AND attempts?  You know the 5?

Nova
Kansas
Purdue
MSU
Marquette 

One is not like the other.  Coaching matters.
I keep hoping that a Power 5 conference team down on its luck and with a rich benefactor, steps up and hires Wojo. I believe the kids on our team would go in to the administration and pound the table for Stan. Markus in particular who is a very impressive young man would lead the charge.   Stan would have a quality team to start with and momentum would build. Stan understands how to relate to kids in a positive way and get the best out of them.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Eldon on March 12, 2018, 08:14:37 PM
I'm looking around in the cupboard and I don't see anyth--BAM!

(http://i.imgur.com/Czrf6CV.gif)

#emptyCupboard
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on March 12, 2018, 08:19:48 PM
Not to pick on you Brew, but this response is representative of the 5 year plan crew to a T.

I can only speak for myself. First, I agree with the 5-year plan and not just for Wojo, but across the board. When it comes to someone like Holtmann, I think it's perfectly legitimate to ask what he'll do in year 4 of a job because he's never been there. Maybe he'll have Ohio State humming by then. Maybe he'll get them to a Sweet 16 or even Final Four with someone else's players and take a better job. Based on his history, the latter is more likely.

I could expound on all the names you mention, but I don't think looking at what someone does at the start is a fair place to evaluate them. Until they are doing it with their own players and you see their ability to put a roster together, build, and sustain, you really don't know what a coach will do. I think with Wojo, we will learn a ton next year. It would be beyond stupid to fire him now, but if he can't sort out some semblance of defense and get us comfortably off the bubble with next year's roster, then it's time to start looking for a replacement.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Eldon on March 12, 2018, 08:37:56 PM
From the get-go I was hesitant to jump on the Wojo train.  When he explicitly admitted that the white t-shirt motivational tactic was a gimmick, I decided not to board. 

It may seem small--trivial even--but I found that to be quite telling.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Eldon on March 12, 2018, 08:39:34 PM
Huh?  I didn't read this stat elsewhere.  I came up with it this morning in response to Golden Avalanche's snarky question in another thread.

Granted, I was alarmed last season that we barely snuck into the tourney, despite being the Number 1, 3-pt shooting team in the country, while being 38th in attempts.

We all know eFG% reigns supreme and the prolific 3-ball shooting is a huge component of eFG%

The rest of your above point make zero intellectual sense.

It's good to have you back.  And I mean that with all sincerity.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 🏀 on March 12, 2018, 08:43:05 PM
From the get-go I was hesitant to jump on the Wojo train.  When he explicitly admitted that the white t-shirt motivational tactic was a gimmick, I decided not to board. 

It may seem small--trivial even--but I found that to be quite telling.

If it wasn't supposed to be a gimmick, what was it? I think everyone, including ESPN knew it was a gimmick.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Eldon on March 12, 2018, 09:06:27 PM
If it wasn't supposed to be a gimmick, what was it? I think everyone, including ESPN knew it was a gimmick.

Two strategies to motivate players
1) Use gimmicks
2) Say "nah, I'm not into playing those games"

Both are okay strategies I suppose.  However, if you choose 1, you must go "all in."  You have to convince your guys that despite appearances, despite what ESPN says, this is NOT a gimmick--you take that Marquette name seriously.

Wojo faltered.  After losing games, he admitted--to the press!--that it was a gimmick.  Sandy and some other players said that they had bought into it.  Sandy said that he was disappointed.

I guarantee that what Sandy really wanted to say is "wtf?  I feel like a sucker." 

Let me ask you this: would play hard for a dude who just pulled the okey-doke on you?  Who tricked the hell out of you?  Made you feel like a fool?  I wouldn't.  Nobody would. 

This is a key difference between Wojo and Buzz, perhaps the key difference: If Buzz were to use a motivational gimmick, he would sell the sh*t out of it.  And if the gimmick didn't work, I'm virtually certain that Buzz is smart enough not to explicitly state that it was a gimmick.  Buzz would fully commit, as it were.

(FWIW, I'd prefer coaches not use any gimmicks, but, again, if a coach does, then he needs to sell it.  And sell it hard.)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GB Warrior on March 12, 2018, 09:33:17 PM
I mean if you want to call motivational tactics gimmicks, I'll present to you 80% of leadership
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: skianth16 on March 12, 2018, 10:54:34 PM
I could expound on all the names you mention, but I don't think looking at what someone does at the start is a fair place to evaluate them. Until they are doing it with their own players and you see their ability to put a roster together, build, and sustain, you really don't know what a coach will do. I think with Wojo, we will learn a ton next year. It would be beyond stupid to fire him now, but if he can't sort out some semblance of defense and get us comfortably off the bubble with next year's roster, then it's time to start looking for a replacement.

I think that's a mostly fair and reasonable way to look at things. Kevin Ollie is a good example of first impressions not necessarily being representative of what's to come. But in years 3 and 4, Wojo has plenty of his own guys, and we've still struggled to really move the needle. Maybe he had a few misfires in recruiting that limited us in the last 2 years. We know transfers have played a role as well. It seems to me that all of Wojo's eggs are in the Year 5 basket now. I'm hoping it pays off and that Wojo is able to grow along with his players. I guess I just expected a more linear upward trend rather than a couple year plateau with a planned leap in year 5.

Landing guys like Joey, Markus, Morrow, and Rowsey gives me hope that recruiting can be consistent, even though I'm still a bit on the fence there. If he can sign a big time PG, I'll be even more hopeful. With the way we've seen Sam and Markus grow, I'm starting to believe in his ability to develop players. I'm fully convinced that he's got a very strong offensive mind. That much is clear. If he can show some improvement on the defensive side next year, then I'll begin to trust his coaching skills and gameplanning abilities more. I'm excited for Year 5, and I hope that by the end of the year I'll be convinced. For now, though, there are still more question marks than I wanted by the (almost) end of his fourth year.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 12, 2018, 10:56:10 PM
He squealed?

No but he did have a restraining order against him.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on March 12, 2018, 11:19:15 PM
From the get-go I was hesitant to jump on the Wojo train.  When he explicitly admitted that the white t-shirt motivational tactic was a gimmick, I decided not to board. 

It may seem small--trivial even--but I found that to be quite telling.

Seriously?

At the racetrack, the track generally refers to all wagers other than WinPlaceShow as "gimmicks." Exacta, Trifecta, Pick Fours etc. Those "gimmick" pools usually outpace WPS pools in handle-dollars. The track is NOT saying, "Do not play these wagers, they are silly gimmicks."

 A coach's ability to motivate is not thwarted by his later admission that a certain tactic was a bit gimmicky. Imagine Al McGuire being held to your standard. When he got in a fight with a player during practice and screamed out, I'll "killz" you (ask Bo Ellis...that really happened), do you think any players were cracking a smile inside? If Al admitted he was using a gimmick by trying to show his street toughness,  would  this demotivate them?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on March 12, 2018, 11:25:32 PM
I think that's a mostly fair and reasonable way to look at things. Kevin Ollie is a good example of first impressions not necessarily being representative of what's to come. But in years 3 and 4, Wojo has plenty of his own guys, and we've still struggled to really move the needle. Maybe he had a few misfires in recruiting that limited us in the last 2 years. We know transfers have played a role as well. It seems to me that all of Wojo's eggs are in the Year 5 basket now. I'm hoping it pays off and that Wojo is able to grow along with his players. I guess I just expected a more linear upward trend rather than a couple year plateau with a planned leap in year 5.

Landing guys like Joey, Markus, Morrow, and Rowsey gives me hope that recruiting can be consistent, even though I'm still a bit on the fence there. If he can sign a big time PG, I'll be even more hopeful. With the way we've seen Sam and Markus grow, I'm starting to believe in his ability to develop players. I'm fully convinced that he's got a very strong offensive mind. That much is clear. If he can show some improvement on the defensive side next year, then I'll begin to trust his coaching skills and gameplanning abilities more. I'm excited for Year 5, and I hope that by the end of the year I'll be convinced. For now, though, there are still more question marks than I wanted by the (almost) end of his fourth year.

I felt last year we were moving along fairly linearly. My biggest worry this year was the defense. I didn't expect mountains to move, but some measure of improvement due to added length and more experience in the system for our starting five, all of whom were returning players.

Looking at next year, the reason for hope on defense is more length (Joey, Morrow, someone who's not Rowsey) and experience for the current freshmen. Sounds awfully familiar. I'm hoping it yields results, but if Wojo has an Achilles Heel, that defense sure looks like the likely culprit.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 🏀 on March 13, 2018, 06:25:18 AM
Two strategies to motivate players
1) Use gimmicks
2) Say "nah, I'm not into playing those games"

Both are okay strategies I suppose.  However, if you choose 1, you must go "all in."  You have to convince your guys that despite appearances, despite what ESPN says, this is NOT a gimmick--you take that Marquette name seriously.

Wojo faltered.  After losing games, he admitted--to the press!--that it was a gimmick.  Sandy and some other players said that they had bought into it.  Sandy said that he was disappointed.

I guarantee that what Sandy really wanted to say is "wtf?  I feel like a sucker." 

Let me ask you this: would play hard for a dude who just pulled the okey-doke on you?  Who tricked the hell out of you?  Made you feel like a fool?  I wouldn't.  Nobody would. 

This is a key difference between Wojo and Buzz, perhaps the key difference: If Buzz were to use a motivational gimmick, he would sell the sh*t out of it.  And if the gimmick didn't work, I'm virtually certain that Buzz is smart enough not to explicitly state that it was a gimmick.  Buzz would fully commit, as it were.

(FWIW, I'd prefer coaches not use any gimmicks, but, again, if a coach does, then he needs to sell it.  And sell it hard.)

I'm pretty glad Sandy transferred after reading this.

So, he was duped into thinking their warm-ups were gone for good? That MU was going to come out wearing Hanes for the rest of the season?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on March 13, 2018, 07:25:27 AM
Two strategies to motivate players
1) Use gimmicks
2) Say "nah, I'm not into playing those games"

Both are okay strategies I suppose.  However, if you choose 1, you must go "all in."  You have to convince your guys that despite appearances, despite what ESPN says, this is NOT a gimmick--you take that Marquette name seriously.

Wojo faltered.  After losing games, he admitted--to the press!--that it was a gimmick.  Sandy and some other players said that they had bought into it.  Sandy said that he was disappointed.

I guarantee that what Sandy really wanted to say is "wtf?  I feel like a sucker." 

Let me ask you this: would play hard for a dude who just pulled the okey-doke on you?  Who tricked the hell out of you?  Made you feel like a fool?  I wouldn't.  Nobody would. 

This is a key difference between Wojo and Buzz, perhaps the key difference: If Buzz were to use a motivational gimmick, he would sell the sh*t out of it.  And if the gimmick didn't work, I'm virtually certain that Buzz is smart enough not to explicitly state that it was a gimmick.  Buzz would fully commit, as it were.

(FWIW, I'd prefer coaches not use any gimmicks, but, again, if a coach does, then he needs to sell it.  And sell it hard.)


Wojo's guys seem bought in and play hard.  I don't think motivation is largely a problem.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Floorslapper on March 13, 2018, 09:14:35 AM
I'm looking around in the cupboard and I don't see anyth--BAM!

(http://i.imgur.com/Czrf6CV.gif)

#emptyCupboard

Fond memory.  We need more physical and athletic players like Deonte.  Then again, considering Wojo never started Deonte, maybe that's just not his kind of player?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 13, 2018, 09:16:47 AM
Fond memory.  We need more physical and athletic players like Deonte.  Then again, considering Wojo never started Deonte, maybe that's just not his kind of player?


Uhhhh, you're completely wrong. It was Buzz who never started Deonte. In the 8 games Deonte was here under Wojo, he started every single game.Thanks for playing, try again.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Floorslapper on March 13, 2018, 09:37:00 AM
Fake news

Uhhhh, you're completely wrong. It was Buzz who never started Deonte. In the 8 games Deonte was here under Wojo, he started every single game.Thanks for playing, try again.

Teal?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 13, 2018, 09:44:32 AM
Teal?

Huh, maybe you're right. Have no clue what I was looking at. Doesn't change the fact that Buzz didn't start Deonte either. Buzz is long gone and isn't coming back. It's time to accept that fact.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mu03eng on March 13, 2018, 09:53:40 AM
I keep hoping that a Power 5 conference team down on its luck and with a rich benefactor, steps up and hires Wojo. I believe the kids on our team would go in to the administration and pound the table for Stan. Markus in particular who is a very impressive young man would lead the charge.   Stan would have a quality team to start with and momentum would build. Stan understands how to relate to kids in a positive way and get the best out of them.

I like Stan as much as the next guy, but why would Stan be an improvement over Wojo? Does Stan have the answers on the defensive end and Wojo just won't listen? I'm not saying he couldn't or won't be an improvement but we have exactly zero evidence that any of the issues Wojo has won't also be Stan's weaknesses.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Floorslapper on March 13, 2018, 09:56:08 AM
Ah, maybe you're right. Don't know what I was looking at. Doesn't change the fact that Buzz didn't start Deonte either. Buzz is long gone and isn't coming back. It's time to accept that fact.

I fully accept the fact Buzz isn't coming back.  Have realized that since the day he left. Wojo's supporters point to the fact that all of Devante, Jamil, Jake, Todd, and Otule were off the roster starting Year 1. 

I simply never accepted the fact that Deonte wasn't slotted for one of those vacated starting roles. 



Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Floorslapper on March 13, 2018, 09:59:34 AM
I like Stan as much as the next guy, but why would Stan be an improvement over Wojo? Does Stan have the answers on the defensive end and Wojo just won't listen? I'm not saying he couldn't or won't be an improvement but we have exactly zero evidence that any of the issues Wojo has won't also be Stan's weaknesses.

Pretty sure Seton Hall games were Stan's scouts.  Also, highly doubt Wojo takes much input from his staff.  He's starting to reveal having a thin skin.

Assistants can make suggestions of course - yet imagine if an assistant were as passionate/dogged in their disagreement with Wojo, philosophically, as am I?  You think the assistant would worry about getting fired?  Probably.  It's a hard deal.  Would love to get Travis Diener one on one, off the record and pick his brain about his thoughts on Woj...
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mu03eng on March 13, 2018, 10:03:52 AM
Pretty sure Seton Hall games were Stan's scouts.  Also, highly doubt Wojo takes much input from his staff.  He's starting to reveal having a thin skin.

Assistants can make suggestions of course - yet imagine if an assistant were as passionate/dogged in their disagreement with Wojo, philosophically, as am I?  You think the assistant would worry about getting fired?  Probably.  It's a hard deal.  Would love to get Travis Diener one on one, off the record and pick his brain about his thoughts on Woj...

So what if Stan's scouts were the Seton Hall games? Ya know what Seton Hall doesn't do? PnR. Ya know what we suck at? PnR defense.

The rest of this response is on me, I forgot about your clairvoyance into how coaches interact and what they are thinking by watching stuff on a TV screen every couple of days when the games are played.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 13, 2018, 10:04:41 AM
Pretty sure Seton Hall games were Stan's scouts.  Also, highly doubt Wojo takes much input from his staff.  He's starting to reveal having a thin skin.

Assistants can make suggestions of course - yet imagine if an assistant were as passionate/dogged in their disagreement with Wojo, philosophically, as am I?  You think the assistant would worry about getting fired?  Probably.  It's a hard deal.  Would love to get Travis Diener one on one, off the record and pick his brain about his thoughts on Woj...

Assistants are usually chosen because they have a close connection with the head coach. The last thing they're worried about is getting fired because they disagree with the head coach.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: auburnmarquette on March 13, 2018, 10:27:22 AM
Start it now, why not ?  Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?

The insanity of this post is most evident by the fact that we had the third highest three-point percentage in the country.

Clearly your 2nd grade math education makes you unable to realize that 3-point shots count more than 2-point shots. If you'd made it to 3rd grade math you could calculate that the rare team that makes over 40 percent of their shots from behind the arc is as effective as a team that makes over 60 percent of their two point shots.

Any understanding of basketball would further lead you to understand that a team with our height is not going to make anywhere remotely close to 60% of their 2-pointers, or the fact that "jacking up 3s" - over 40% of which go in - is the only thing that then allows Rowsey and Howard to spread the defense enough that they can drive or pass against a spread out defense to get the 2-point shots you so wish to watch - many more of which would be blocked.

Because I am so blinded by the utter stupidity of this argument I cannot even start to look at your other arguments.

While it appears to me you have made the most inane argument in all my years of reading the scoop, the only charitable explanation I can hope for is that you had never watched a basketball game since the three-point line was added and did not understand that the longer shots are called 3-pointers because they are, in fact, worth one more point than the other shots.

Please never coach a basketball team at any youth level - you would be a discredit to any youth league no matter how young, and force your players to relearn the game when they got a new coach the next year.

Sorry the year proved you so wrong.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: BobWildLoyalist on March 13, 2018, 10:39:00 AM
I felt last year we were moving along fairly linearly. My biggest worry this year was the defense. I didn't expect mountains to move, but some measure of improvement due to added length and more experience in the system for our starting five, all of whom were returning players.

Looking at next year, the reason for hope on defense is more length (Joey, Morrow, someone who's not Rowsey) and experience for the current freshmen. Sounds awfully familiar. I'm hoping it yields results, but if Wojo has an Achilles Heel, that defense sure looks like the likely culprit.

We've been talking about getting more experienced for 4 years now. I know the landscape of college basketball is changing with transfers and what not, but we have not shown much movement in the experience/D dept. It's a constant excuse.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on March 13, 2018, 10:39:54 AM
The insanity of this post is most evident by the fact that we had the third highest three-point percentage in the country.

Clearly your 2nd grade math education makes you unable to realize that 3-point shots count more than 2-point shots. If you'd made it to 3rd grade math you could calculate that the rare team that makes over 40 percent of their shots from behind the arc is as effective as a team that makes over 60 percent of their two point shots.

Any understanding of basketball would further lead you to understand that a team with our height is not going to make anywhere remotely close to 60% of their 2-pointers, or the fact that "jacking up 3s" - over 40% of which go in - is the only thing that then allows Rowsey and Howard to spread the defense enough that they can drive or pass against a spread out defense to get the 2-point shots you so wish to watch - many more of which would be blocked.

Because I am so blinded by the utter stupidity of this argument I cannot even start to look at your other arguments.

While it appears to me you have made the most inane argument in all my years of reading the scoop, the only charitable explanation I can hope for is that you had never watched a basketball game since the three-point line was added and did not understand that the longer shots are called 3-pointers because they are, in fact, worth one more point than the other shots.

Please never coach a basketball team at any youth level - you would be a discredit to any youth league no matter how young, and force your players to relearn the game when they got a new coach the next year.

Sorry the year proved you so wrong.

The post you quoted was from November 2015, a year in which we shot 34% from 3, bottom third in D1.

Your point stands re: last year and this year however. But I doubt anyone was complaining about our 3 point shots last year or this year.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: BM1090 on March 13, 2018, 10:50:08 AM
So what if Stan's scouts were the Seton Hall games? Ya know what Seton Hall doesn't do? PnR. Ya know what we suck at? PnR defense.

The rest of this response is on me, I forgot about your clairvoyance into how coaches interact and what they are thinking by watching stuff on a TV screen every couple of days when the games are played.

Creighton runs a ton of pick and roll and we beat them twice. Who had those scouts?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on March 13, 2018, 11:16:42 AM
I cannot believe any of y'all are actually arguing with Ners.

He played high school ball, don'tcha know?!?!

OK, Wojo also played high school ball ... and college ball ... and worked under the winningest college coach ever.

But he didn't play Ners' level of high school ball, that's for sure!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Floorslapper on March 13, 2018, 11:30:47 AM
I cannot believe any of y'all are actually arguing with Ners.

He played high school ball, don'tcha know?!?!

OK, Wojo also played high school ball ... and college ball ... and worked under the winningest college coach ever.

But he didn't play Ners' level of high school ball, that's for sure!

You've gone off the rails again in your hatred 82.  Peace be with you.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 13, 2018, 12:46:43 PM
Pretty sure Seton Hall games were Stan's scouts.  Also, highly doubt Wojo takes much input from his staff.  He's starting to reveal having a thin skin.

Assistants can make suggestions of course - yet imagine if an assistant were as passionate/dogged in their disagreement with Wojo, philosophically, as am I?  You think the assistant would worry about getting fired?  Probably.  It's a hard deal.  Would love to get Travis Diener one on one, off the record and pick his brain about his thoughts on Woj...

I don't know whose scouts Seton Hall were (and how do you know that?).....but we didn't do anything remarkably on defense differently then we usually do. Seton Hall just doesn't run the high pick and roll which we struggle against.

I can state for a fact that the assistants can speak freely with Wojo and are just as responsible for the defense as Wojo. Well that's not fair, the head coach is always more responsible.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 13, 2018, 12:50:13 PM
You've gone off the rails again in your hatred 82.  Peace be with you.

Thoughts and prayers to MU82.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 13, 2018, 12:52:23 PM
We've been talking about getting more experienced for 4 years now. I know the landscape of college basketball is changing with transfers and what not, but we have not shown much movement in the experience/D dept. It's a constant excuse.

We were very experienced last season and made the tournament. We lost a lot of experience this year due to graduation. We should be very experienced for the next two seasons.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Floorslapper on March 13, 2018, 12:58:31 PM
Thoughts and prayers to MU82.

Seconded.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Floorslapper on March 13, 2018, 01:01:42 PM
I don't know whose scouts Seton Hall were (and how do you know that?).....but we didn't do anything remarkably on defense differently then we usually do. Seton Hall just doesn't run the high pick and roll which we struggle against.

I can state for a fact that the assistants can speak freely with Wojo and are just as responsible for the defense as Wojo. Well that's not fair, the head coach is always more responsible.

They mentioned on broadcast that Stan had the scout. 

Out of curiosity, how does a high pick roll execute against a zone defense?   8-)

No doubt freedom of speech exists in this country and among a coaching staff.  As you point out, buck stops with head coach though, and Wojo chose to roll M2M ~95% of possessions this season. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: muwarrior69 on March 13, 2018, 01:04:19 PM
We were very experienced last season and made the tournament. We lost a lot of experience this year due to graduation. We should be very experienced for the next two seasons.

...and hopefully a much more balanced team i.e. athletic guards and bigs as we move forward.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: CTWarrior on March 13, 2018, 01:25:24 PM
Creighton runs a ton of pick and roll and we beat them twice. Who had those scouts?

Basically we outscored them and our defense wasn't anything to write home about.  I will say that Epperson was having a dunk party in the first half of game 1 until we switched to zone.  Before everyone jumps on this, I believe it was the right defense for that half of that game.  Our defense pretty much stunk no matter how we aligned it.  Changing our defenses was akin to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on March 13, 2018, 02:47:51 PM
Fond memory.  We need more physical and athletic players like Deonte.  Then again, considering Wojo never started Deonte, maybe that's just not his kind of player?


Deonte was physical...kind of.  Dude couldn't guard anyone.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorchick on March 13, 2018, 03:48:24 PM

Deonte was physical...kind of.  Dude couldn't guard anyone.

Couldn't, or wouldn't?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Floorslapper on March 13, 2018, 03:49:45 PM

Deonte was physical...kind of.  Dude couldn't guard anyone.

And Wojo has a problem with this?   :o

Deonte played a rover type of a D, which is why he had a high steal and block percentage throughout his career.  He was more focused on being a playmaker defensively than being an elite, lock you up, one on one defender..
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: NWarsh on March 13, 2018, 03:53:47 PM
And Wojo has a problem with this?   :o

Deonte played a rover type of a D, which is why he had a high steal and block percentage throughout his career.  He was more focused on being a playmaker defensively than being an elite, lock you up, one on one defender..

That really helps when you are trying to install a new team defensive concept
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mr.MUskie on March 13, 2018, 04:19:53 PM
Thoughts and prayers to MU82.

T&P
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 13, 2018, 04:34:11 PM
Deonte Burton was a terrible defensive player. Deonte also needed to move on for personal reasons so beats me what he has to do with Wojo’s defensive acumen as a coach

And Wojo has a problem with this?   :o

Deonte played a rover type of a D, which is why he had a high steal and block percentage throughout his career.  He was more focused on being a playmaker defensively than being an elite, lock you up, one on one defender..
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 13, 2018, 05:03:05 PM
And Wojo has a problem with this?   :o

This made me laugh
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on March 13, 2018, 05:12:14 PM
This made me laugh

Ditto!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Marcus92 on March 13, 2018, 05:19:34 PM
A year after making the Final Four, Tom Crean struggled mightily on the defensive end:

2003-04
104.6 AdjD (182nd per KenPom.com)

It took the arrival of Dominic James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews, Lazar Hayward and company to break back into the Top 30 for adjusted defensive efficiency.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on March 13, 2018, 05:23:10 PM
A year after making the Final Four, Tom Crean struggled mightily on the defensive end:

2003-04
104.6 AdjD (182nd per KenPom.com)

It took the arrival of Dominic James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews, Lazar Hayward and company to break back into the Top 30 for adjusted defensive efficiency.

The year of making the Final Four Crean struggled mightily on the defensive end. The 2003 Marquette team was by far the worst defensive team of the advanced stats era.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on March 13, 2018, 05:28:21 PM
The year after FF was an important year for the program and Crean failed. Building off FF was crucial and the team laid an egg. I felt that was turning point of Crean era and the start of the end for him.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on March 13, 2018, 05:54:41 PM
You've gone off the rails again in your hatred 82.  Peace be with you.



To paraphrase the great Clubber Lang:

No, I don't hate Ners, but I pity da fool. And I will destroy any man who tries to wish me teal-toned thoughts and prayers.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 13, 2018, 05:56:46 PM
The year after FF was an important year for the program and Crean failed. Building off FF was crucial and the team laid an egg. I felt that was turning point of Crean era and the start of the end for him.

He got james McNeal Matthews and Lazar. He missed the tournament once (?) I'm not sure that's really a bad ending.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on March 13, 2018, 06:22:38 PM
Unleash

Ask Dick Strong what he thought of post FF year.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on March 13, 2018, 06:25:29 PM
He got james McNeal Matthews and Lazar. He missed the tournament once (?) I'm not sure that's really a bad ending.

Twice
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2018, 06:28:49 PM
Unleash

Ask Dick Strong what he thought of post FF year.

Dick ain't around.  He left with the Wojo hire.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Goose on March 13, 2018, 06:32:48 PM
Dr.

I know.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Marcus92 on March 13, 2018, 07:35:36 PM
Ask Dick Strong what he thought of post FF year.

Related to Marquette, or his financial situation (being fined $60 million by the SEC, barred from managing money for life and seeing the dissolution of his financial empire)?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: fjm on December 01, 2018, 07:00:15 PM
I mean... come on right? Without Markus we wouldn’t have won! Or something... whatever. Now I’m just being sassy.

Good W. Great game. Showed a lot of strength in an ugly game. Hauser kept a level head after getting hammered with some tough calls.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 01, 2018, 10:31:13 PM
Marquette's team is 7-0
Wojo is 0-2

Not that hard to understand. Fire Wojo.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 01, 2018, 11:40:31 PM
I mean... come on right? Without Markus we wouldn’t have won! Or something... whatever. Now I’m just being sassy.

Good W. Great game. Showed a lot of strength in an ugly game. Hauser kept a level head after getting hammered with some tough calls.

so did theo...those refs must have spent 5 minutes looking for something they thought they saw during the play and it just didn't happen.  the damn thing shouldn't have even been called a foul.  the refs are looking at 2 different tv monitors wondering where the blood went
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorchick on December 02, 2018, 08:03:00 AM
so did theo...those refs must have spent 5 minutes looking for something they thought they saw during the play and it just didn't happen.  the damn thing shouldn't have even been called a foul.  the refs are looking at 2 different tv monitors wondering where the blood went

Theo got fouls called on him for the same reason that red sports cars get speeding tickets.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on December 02, 2018, 08:04:41 AM
Honestly I thought only one of Theo's fouls was a bad call, and that was on his block.  And even then I think the problem was with the follow through.  The way they were calling the game, the rest were at least consistent.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 02, 2018, 08:33:29 AM
Honestly I thought only one of Theo's fouls was a bad call, and that was on his block.  And even then I think the problem was with the follow through.  The way they were calling the game, the rest were at least consistent.

Funny thing is, the one they were reviewing for 5 minutes was the least agregious. Yes I realize they were looking for appendages to the head and neck region, but even at full speed, it was just 2 guys jockeying for position. The defenders neck didn’t snap back or anything, so there was really nothing that stood out about the play.  it seemed at times the refs were micromanaging and at other times letting them play.  But the players(nor the fans) knew when and where that would be.

My son being at the game, said he had never heard so much complaining about the refs after a solid win. The 2 technicals,didn’t help, but when the refs are part of the conversation after a win, that’s not good.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: tower912 on December 02, 2018, 08:38:58 AM
Theo got his arm up to clear space.   It was the right call.    The reviewed to see if it was flagrant.   It wasn't.   Ultimately, the officials agreed that it was just two big guys jockeying for position but the offensive guy got his arm up.     Right call, just another delay in a game without flow. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: GGGG on December 02, 2018, 08:42:18 AM
Funny thing is, the one they were reviewing for 5 minutes was the least agregious. Yes I realize they were looking for appendages to the head and neck region, but even at full speed, it was just 2 guys jockeying for position. The defenders neck didn’t snap back or anything, so there was really nothing that stood out about the play.  it seemed at times the refs were micromanaging and at other times letting them play.  But the players(nor the fans) knew when and where that would be.

My son being at the game, said he had never heard so much complaining about the refs after a solid win. The 2 technicals,didn’t help, but when the refs are part of the conversation after a win, that’s not good.


I understand *why* they reviewed the play.  By the rules they should have.  I have no idea why it took so long to come to the conclusion they did.  It was pretty obvious the first time they showed the replay. 

I thought by far the two worst calls were the technicals.  Both were immediate, very short reactions and neither were directed at the officials.  And in college basketball, those count towards personal fouls which took two of the best players on the court out of the game.  There was zero reason for the ref to call either one of them.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: tower912 on December 02, 2018, 09:07:11 AM

I understand *why* they reviewed the play.  By the rules they should have.  I have no idea why it took so long to come to the conclusion they did.  It was pretty obvious the first time they showed the replay. 

I thought by far the two worst calls were the technicals.  Both were immediate, very short reactions and neither were directed at the officials.  And in college basketball, those count towards personal fouls which took two of the best players on the court out of the game.  There was zero reason for the ref to call either one of them.
Agree on both technicals.    The K-state one was the defender chasing Markus off a screen with a bump.   Ticky tack and he reacted.  Sam's felt like a make up call.   It sure looked like a good defensive play, and then the same ref had the same short fuse.    Both were wrong. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: goldeneagle91114 on December 03, 2018, 09:14:40 AM
Fred Hoiberg was just fired from the Bulls. If the Wojo experiment doesn't work out, maybe we would give "The Mayor" a shot.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: brewcity77 on December 03, 2018, 10:30:42 AM
Fred Hoiberg was just fired from the Bulls. If the Wojo experiment doesn't work out, maybe we would give "The Mayor" a shot.

I have a feeling he will probably end up a very hot commodity if he does return to the college ranks. That said, I'd be very surprised if Marquette went after Hoiberg. He's a great offensive mind and will win wherever he goes, but something tells me admin wouldn't consider him.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Daniel on December 03, 2018, 10:41:43 AM
Fred Hoiberg was just fired from the Bulls. If the Wojo experiment doesn't work out, maybe we would give "The Mayor" a shot.

And Jim Boyle’s is promoted to coach - at least for now.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: alexius23 on December 03, 2018, 10:43:41 AM
Start it now, why not ?  Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?
Premature
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: real chili 83 on December 22, 2018, 03:28:32 PM
Marquette's team is 7-0
Wojo is 0-2

Not that hard to understand. Fire Wojo.

 :)
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 22, 2018, 08:55:51 PM
:)

the one above yours was precious too-"start it now, why not?..."  come back comment by alexius was succinct!  wonder if skat man and mcderjim smoke rope together
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: real chili 83 on February 23, 2019, 04:00:40 PM
Start it now, why not ?  Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?

^^^^^^^^^^
Dumb a$$
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 23, 2019, 04:29:02 PM
^^^^^^^^^^
Dumb a$$

Maybe I should give more warnings. 82 already got a vacation. This counts as insult / disrespect. Don't do it, or you too can get a vacation.

Not to mention, that was on a 2015 comment!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Newsdreams on February 23, 2019, 04:32:09 PM
Maybe I should give more warnings. 82 already got a vacation. This counts as insult / disrespect. Don't do it, or you too can get a vacation.

Not to mention, that was on a 2015 comment!
You need Arby's
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 23, 2019, 04:33:44 PM
You need Arby's

Maybe. But for a lease a few days you folks are going to be civil to each other, or else!

BTW, there are several ways to have the same effect as RCs post without calling someone a "dumbass"
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Archies Bat on February 23, 2019, 04:45:41 PM
Maybe. But for a lease a few days you folks are going to be civil to each other, or else!

BTW, there are several ways to have the same effect as RCs post without calling someone a "dumbass"

I am surprised how sour many of the folks on the board have become, especially during a great run of basketball.  It seems to be a lot of the sourness is from long term grudges, some dating back to the politics board.

I hate to see the mods need to get involved, but I think a show of force with public shaming for many of us is warranted.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MUUWUWM on February 23, 2019, 04:53:58 PM
Maybe. But for a lease a few days you folks are going to be civil to each other, or else!

BTW, there are several ways to have the same effect as RCs post without calling someone a "dumbass"

NO Crap, too many are dumb butts.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 23, 2019, 05:04:41 PM
Oh, look, the 4th bullet point .. retribution. 

Give it a rest.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mu03eng on February 23, 2019, 05:12:55 PM
I, for one, welcome the ban hammer in all its glory.

All hail the ban hammer
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: real chili 83 on February 23, 2019, 06:19:00 PM
Maybe I should give more warnings. 82 already got a vacation. This counts as insult / disrespect. Don't do it, or you too can get a vacation.

Not to mention, that was on a 2015 comment!

Guilty as charged Wocky.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: muwarrior69 on February 23, 2019, 07:08:44 PM
Fire Rocky! Fire Hilltopper!

OOPS!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Cheeks on February 23, 2019, 07:13:32 PM
Hire Danny Manning
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Its DJOver on February 24, 2019, 07:21:06 AM
It's no wonder that everyone's moral compass has been screwed up lately.  We've been rooting for Lousiville, and in a couple weeks time we'll have to root for Cincinnati.  That's enough to throw off anyone's psyche.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 1SE on March 09, 2019, 06:19:15 PM
Jaysus. 3 weeks ago a historic collapse was about the only thing that could revive this thread. Well done Wojo, you truly are the king of mediocre.

2 NCAA wins can still salvage this, but that’s looking like a big order.

Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Johnny B on March 09, 2019, 06:30:12 PM
Was wondering when someone would bump this
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on March 09, 2019, 06:31:37 PM
Was wondering when someone would bump this

Well. A 4 game L streak to close out the year to erase all positive mojo from this year

Wojo has no mojo
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mcderjim on March 10, 2019, 05:37:08 PM
We’re stuck with Wojo now. He has slightly improved the program with no scandals. If it was less than 5 years, he significantly improved the program he inherited from the Buzz double doink final season.
We will be Top 10 next year.  And we have the potential for a Top 10 2020 recruiting season. The admin fully supports him.
I’m guessing he gets a slight bonus increase with 3 years, all based on next years performance and recruiting. Need this to support the  incoming class. Sad that 5 years  later we are still wondering if the current leadership can take us to the consistent Top 20 level
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Not A Serious Person on March 10, 2019, 05:47:16 PM
We’re stuck with Wojo now. He has slightly improved the program with no scandals. If it was less than 5 years, he significantly improved the program he inherited from the Buzz double doink final season.
We will be Top 10 next year.  And we have the potential for a Top 10 2020 recruiting season. The admin fully supports him.
I’m guessing he gets a slight bonus increase with 3 years, all based on next years performance and recruiting. Need this to support the  incoming class. Sad that 5 years  later we are still wondering if the current leadership can take us to the consistent Top 20 level

We should drop out of the Big East and disband the basketball program.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: tower912 on March 10, 2019, 05:49:56 PM
Fire up, Wojo!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 10, 2019, 05:56:57 PM
I think if people proposed a 23-8 season, second place in the BE and a BE record of 12-6, Most people would have signed up.  Now the fact that we lost 4 in a row absolutely sucks, especially losing the BE title like we did.
So given how well our recruiting is going, the upward trajectory makes me content that we have good things ahead.  This team has flaws especially at PG, Markus is a 2.  I am happy with the season and how it went, especially after the IU game. 
With greg, koby and possibly symir here next year, i feel good about our situation at the 1 going forward.
Slide Markus to the 2 and have him play 10-15 minutes a game at the 1.
Provided hes doing ok there and we will be much better next year.  This years experiences, good n bad, will pay huge dividends next year. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mcderjim on March 21, 2019, 05:51:38 PM
Haven’t been ready for an important game in a month. Should have listened to me 4+ years ago....Wojo doesn’t have it
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 21, 2019, 07:46:47 PM
Morant made a few extra million today courtesy of Wojo and crew, aina?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 22, 2019, 05:33:32 AM
Officially off the Wojo bandwagon after yesterday. I'm not calling for his firing but I no longer believe he's a coach that can get us to the next step.

I'd compare Wojo to a salesman who hits 80-90% of quota every month. That's decent enough where no manager is going to fire that individual but it's consistently frustrating and that person will never take the next step.

I think let him finish with Markus and Sam next year, worst case we make a second tournament appearance and bow out right away then we depart from Wojo. best case everyone puts it together and we can extend wojo a bit.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: jonny09 on March 22, 2019, 05:40:20 AM
Avery Johnson being bought out after 4 years.   A non basketball school with a high profile ex NBA guy as a coach.  Why aren’t they giving him another year?  Year five will be the year.  If he doesn’t get it done then I’ll be ready to cut bait.  I promise. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 22, 2019, 06:56:42 AM
Amazin' how little Wojo apparently absorbed while sittin' next ta K four 15 years, aina?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Warrior of Law on March 22, 2019, 08:00:19 AM
I don't know what the Wojo contract looks like, in terms of years left or a buyout provision.  MU is not the type to be able to throw millions at someone to leave.  In fact, with Crean and Buzz, it would seem they actually came out ahead, financially.

So, since (1) Wojo is not exactly a hot commodity for the UCLA's of the world, (2) MU is not going to pay millions for him to leave, and (3) there is no obvious successor, MU and Wojo are stuck with each other.

Next year, on this date, one of the above factors will change.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on March 22, 2019, 08:40:27 AM
So no is a really nice guy.  Loves his team. He's a great recruiter.  But, he is not a very good coach.  Too often he doesn't seem to prepare the team for opponents.  And, he doesn't coach well during games.  He doesn't make adjustments to win.  He made a huge mistake sitting his top scorer on the bench for four minutes in the first half.  He "cooled off" Markus for the game. 
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Mediocre Steve on March 04, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
Two things: This absolutely needs to get bumped..so bump. The other...after reading these threads...who is this Cheeks dude with the hugging bears? Wojo burner account...?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: keefe on March 05, 2020, 12:19:40 AM
Dick ain't around

Dick is along?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 05, 2020, 12:23:49 AM
Two things: This absolutely needs to get bumped..so bump. The other...after reading these threads...who is this Cheeks dude with the hugging bears? Wojo burner account...?

A Wojo Cuck.  Typically holds the video camera.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Mediocre Steve on March 05, 2020, 07:38:29 AM
I noticed that this thread was started in 2015 and the exact same things are being brought up today...looks like Wojo has learned nothing and it's the same old stuff.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2020, 10:28:51 PM
I'm bumping this to post a warning.  Anybody that just wants to come here and scream "Fire Wojo" etc, without offering any other any other thoughts will be banned for the rest of this season.

Poor Steve (post above) lost his privileges earlier today.

Now, I get it, after a tough loss, people like to fume.  We allow that.  You can also hate wojo, and lay out all the reasons he deserves to be fired.  I have no problem there.  But we've suddenly acquired too many instigators without enough substance.  I don't care how long you've been a member, or that other folks might think you're "good people". 

If you want to post negative one-liners - stick to twitter.  Here's a few examples of people on my short list...
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=10838
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=140
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=8299
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Johnny B on March 05, 2020, 10:31:56 PM
How does this work? If i day fire wojo! Thats bannable but what if if i say fire wojo cuz he sucks! Is that enough substance. Ik not even guy that wants to fire wojo rn lol. Just wondering 😜
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2020, 10:34:26 PM
How does this work? If i day fire wojo! Thats bannable but what if if i say fire wojo cuz he sucks! Is that enough substance. Ik not even guy that wants to fire wojo rn lol. Just wondering 😜

Don't try to understand the rules.  That's impossible.

You'll know if you break them!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 🏀 on March 05, 2020, 10:36:09 PM
I'm bumping this to post a warning.  Anybody that just wants to come here and scream "Fire Wojo" etc, without offering any other any other thoughts will be banned for the rest of this season.

Poor Steve (post above) lost his privileges earlier today.

Now, I get it, after a tough loss, people like to fume.  We allow that.  You can also hate wojo, and lay out all the reasons he deserves to be fired.  I have no problem there.  But we've suddenly acquired too many instigators without enough substance.  I don't care how long you've been a member, or that other folks might think you're "good people". 

If you want to post negative one-liners - stick to twitter.  Here's a few examples of people on my short list...
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=10838
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=140
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=8299

The real Meat Summit happens at Arby’s, old timers.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 05, 2020, 10:41:39 PM
Don't try to understand the rules.  That's impossible.

You'll know if you break them!
The amount of times I've been slandered and name-called by certain Projos and I end up on this list.  Ok.  Weird how it's all Nojos and no Projos.  What about the guy that tried to doxx someone in defense of Wojo?  Is he still around?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 05, 2020, 11:16:41 PM
I'm bumping this to post a warning.  Anybody that just wants to come here and scream "Fire Wojo" etc, without offering any other any other thoughts will be banned for the rest of this season.

Poor Steve (post above) lost his privileges earlier today.

Now, I get it, after a tough loss, people like to fume.  We allow that.  You can also hate wojo, and lay out all the reasons he deserves to be fired.  I have no problem there.  But we've suddenly acquired too many instigators without enough substance.  I don't care how long you've been a member, or that other folks might think you're "good people". 

If you want to post negative one-liners - stick to twitter.  Here's a few examples of people on my short list...
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=10838
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=140
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=8299

That's all?

Jesus wept, my list would be 3 max posts long.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 05, 2020, 11:53:13 PM
The real Meat Summit happens at Arby’s, old timers.

where's the beeef ptm?

      here's the real beef-wojo has shown no improvement, teams have figured him and the players out, especially as we get deeper into the season, teams have either played us and/or scouted us.  there has been absolutely no plan "b", "c" or "d" and due to all of this, the players are losing their confidence in him  wojo even tried getting a "T" (GASP!!) the other game and that went out like a fizzle.  the players were like-nice try man, but ya shoulda been doing that 8 games ago.  it took the worst officiated game of the year for him to get a technical??  i was watching sean miller friggin spit all over himself in the game against ucla.  the ref "t'd" him up.  miller didn't lose a beat, almost got the 2nd one before the ref could get to the scorers table...not to worry, seanie finished himself off in the 2nd half in huggie bear fashion.  now that is takin one for the team.  just don't get the first technical of your career in your 5th season and expect to fire up your team...yawn
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 🏀 on March 06, 2020, 05:45:36 AM
where's the beeef ptm?

      here's the real beef-wojo has shown no improvement, teams have figured him and the players out, especially as we get deeper into the season, teams have either played us and/or scouted us.  there has been absolutely no plan "b", "c" or "d" and due to all of this, the players are losing their confidence in him  wojo even tried getting a "T" (GASP!!) the other game and that went out like a fizzle.  the players were like-nice try man, but ya shoulda been doing that 8 games ago.  it took the worst officiated game of the year for him to get a technical??  i was watching sean miller friggin spit all over himself in the game against ucla.  the ref "t'd" him up.  miller didn't lose a beat, almost got the 2nd one before the ref could get to the scorers table...not to worry, seanie finished himself off in the 2nd half in huggie bear fashion.  now that is takin one for the team.  just don't get the first technical of your career in your 5th season and expect to fire up your team...yawn

Why you gots to insult Arby’s with a Wendy’s reference?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: real chili 83 on March 06, 2020, 06:21:05 AM
ND Sucks
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: warriorfred on March 06, 2020, 06:25:05 AM
Darn.  We are engaged in the exact same debate from 5 years earlier.  This thread aged remarkably well.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: CTWarrior on March 06, 2020, 07:59:09 AM
I'd like to see one season without Howard to see if he resets his coaching philosophy to more team-oriented one.  I think that will open the player pipeline more than anything.

Really, mostly I'd like to see us defend better.  We have so much trouble getting runs going because we don't get momentum building stops nearly often enough.  We should have size and athleticism next season throughout the roster.  If we can't defend well then, we probably never will.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: panda on March 06, 2020, 08:19:22 AM
I'd like to see one season without Howard to see if he resets his coaching philosophy to more team-oriented one.  I think that will open the player pipeline more than anything.

Really, mostly I'd like to see us defend better.  We have so much trouble getting runs going because we don't get momentum building stops nearly often enough.  We should have size and athleticism next season throughout the roster.  If we can't defend well then, we probably never will.

To be fair, it was said the defense would be greatly improved this season due to better size and athleticism...
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Litehouse on March 06, 2020, 08:53:11 AM
To be fair, it was said the defense would be greatly improved this season due to better size and athleticism...
We certainly have better athleticism, but less size.
Our KenPom AdjD rating went from 96.7 last year to 96.3 this year, which is an improvement statistically, although our ranking decreased from 45 to 67 due to more teams having a better rating.  Overall it's pretty close and I'd call it a wash.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 06, 2020, 09:51:54 AM
We certainly have better athleticism, but less size.
Our KenPom AdjD rating went from 96.7 last year to 96.3 this year, which is an improvement statistically, although our ranking decreased from 45 to 67 due to more teams having a better rating.  Overall it's pretty close and I'd call it a wash.

MU’s defense in conference is 105.5 this season, good for ninth. It was 2nd last year, with the so-called soft serves in place. Does that make this year’s team the “banana splits” or the “marshmallow sundaes”?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Litehouse on March 06, 2020, 10:01:05 AM
MU’s defense in conference is 105.5 this season, good for ninth. It was 2nd last year, with the so-called soft serves in place. Does that make this year’s team the “banana splits” or the “marshmallow sundaes”?
Thanks for the info, that's interesting.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 06, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
Don't try to understand the rules.  That's impossible.

You'll know if you break them!

Shoot, I didn't make the short list. It's time to step up my game.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 06, 2020, 12:20:59 PM
MU’s defense in conference is 105.5 this season, good for ninth. It was 2nd last year, with the so-called soft serves in place. Does that make this year’s team the “banana splits” or the “marshmallow sundaes”?

How old are we though -- I was told a few years ago that experience is a really important thing.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: keefe on March 07, 2020, 10:44:52 AM
Hiroshima. An event, not a place.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mcderjim on January 23, 2021, 09:43:12 PM
5 years ago I called this coach out ! Still zero NCAA wins...add 2021 as another lost year
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Mediocrity Embraced on February 27, 2021, 04:25:47 PM
This needs to be bumped.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: cheese ball chaser on February 27, 2021, 04:33:16 PM
How does this work? If i day fire wojo! Thats bannable but what if if i say fire wojo cuz he sucks! Is that enough substance. Ik not even guy that wants to fire wojo rn lol. Just wondering 😜

Crean sucks.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: #UnleashSean on February 27, 2021, 08:44:41 PM
I'm bumping this to post a warning.  Anybody that just wants to come here and scream "Fire Wojo" etc, without offering any other any other thoughts will be banned for the rest of this season.

Poor Steve (post above) lost his privileges earlier today.

Now, I get it, after a tough loss, people like to fume.  We allow that.  You can also hate wojo, and lay out all the reasons he deserves to be fired.  I have no problem there.  But we've suddenly acquired too many instigators without enough substance.  I don't care how long you've been a member, or that other folks might think you're "good people". 

If you want to post negative one-liners - stick to twitter.  Here's a few examples of people on my short list...
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=10838
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=140
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=8299

Not knowing how the forum structure worked. Clicked the 1st link and saw my name. Sitting here going wtf did I do to make a short list! For way to long of a time.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 28, 2021, 12:43:19 AM
Not knowing how the forum structure worked. Clicked the 1st link and saw my name. Sitting here going wtf did I do to make a short list! For way to long of a time.

Hah, it's gotten (somewhat deservedly) worse. But I wish these kiddos that come out of the woodwork would understand that hyperbole is not their friend.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Blackhat on March 02, 2021, 01:12:44 PM
We suck.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mcderjim on March 02, 2021, 09:13:12 PM
Only two games left in the season.... Fire Wojo, because he sucks. See you next year, with the same loser
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: cheese ball chaser on March 02, 2021, 09:48:14 PM
Serious question: when's the soonest Wojo would actually be gone? When is his contract up? Will he be fired before then?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 02, 2021, 10:37:39 PM
Serious question: when's the soonest Wojo would actually be gone? When is his contract up? Will he be fired before then?

End of next season. Harbaugh his contract this season,  fire him next if he doesn't win enough. Not sure what admin would define as win enough
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Johnny B on March 02, 2021, 10:38:23 PM
End of next season. Harbaugh his contract this season,  fire him next if he doesn't win enough. Not sure what admin would define as win enough
top 2 nit seed
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Blackhat on March 02, 2021, 10:40:11 PM
There’s no fire in this admin to be great since Cottingham.  Anybody’s guess how long they’ll let this go on.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: JWags85 on March 02, 2021, 11:15:43 PM
Not sure what admin would define as win enough

Above .500 but the team is made up of stand up individuals!!
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MarquetteMike1977 on March 02, 2021, 11:40:55 PM
There’s no fire in this admin to be great since Cottingham.  Anybody’s guess how long they’ll let this go on.

I worked on a Human Concerns Commission with Steve Cottingham’s Mother In Law for many years, very nice and kind lady.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: willie warrior on March 03, 2021, 05:31:32 AM
Above .500 but the team is made up of stand up individuals!!
This admin? 15 wins gets Wojo-Dukiet another 7 years.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: cheese ball chaser on March 03, 2021, 03:03:31 PM
End of next season. Harbaugh his contract this season,  fire him next if he doesn't win enough. Not sure what admin would define as win enough

What do you mean by "Harbaugh his contract?" I'm not familiar with that situation.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 03, 2021, 03:15:02 PM
What do you mean by "Harbaugh his contract?" I'm not familiar with that situation.

Very small extension but extremely low buy out. It essentially says we're going to let you bet on yourself if you want to stay. If not you should go.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 03, 2021, 03:16:22 PM
There’s no fire in this admin to be great since Cottingham.  Anybody’s guess how long they’ll let this go on.


Cottingham hired Buzz.  And that's pretty much it.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 03, 2021, 03:50:57 PM

Cottingham hired Buzz.  And that's pretty much it.

This same group also hired Carolyn Kieger and Megan Duffy.  The rest of the sports programs are on pretty solid footing, too.  I know, I know
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: cheese ball chaser on March 03, 2021, 04:47:37 PM
Very small extension but extremely low buy out. It essentially says we're going to let you bet on yourself if you want to stay. If not you should go.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 03, 2021, 04:56:31 PM

Cottingham hired Buzz.  And that's pretty much it.

Started two LAX programs and hired those two coaches, got momentum going for the soccer complex that was downsized later, put money into volleyball and hired Bond.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Jables1604 on March 03, 2021, 05:36:46 PM
This same group also hired Carolyn Kieger and Megan Duffy.  The rest of the sports programs are on pretty solid footing, too.  I know, I know
Pretty sure Cottingham also hired Amplo.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: cheebs09 on March 03, 2021, 05:48:43 PM
This same group also hired Carolyn Kieger and Megan Duffy.  The rest of the sports programs are on pretty solid footing, too.  I know, I know

Didn't Cords hire Kieger the same off-season he hired Wojo?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: JWags85 on March 03, 2021, 05:56:46 PM
This same group also hired Carolyn Kieger and Megan Duffy.  The rest of the sports programs are on pretty solid footing, too.  I know, I know

To be fair, “handled Women’s BB and other non-revenue sports well” is what allowed JLP to set DePaul basketball on fire repeatedly for a decade plus
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 03, 2021, 06:39:47 PM
Didn't Cords hire Kieger the same off-season he hired Wojo?

Yes. Cords also hired Theis.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 79Warrior on March 03, 2021, 06:40:41 PM
Started two LAX programs and hired those two coaches, got momentum going for the soccer complex that was downsized later, put money into volleyball and hired Bond.

Yep. He did a good job.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: goldeneagle91114 on March 04, 2021, 09:48:52 AM
from ESPN:
Your comprehensive guide to the 2021 college basketball coaching hot seat

Wojo is listed under the "I'd Be surprised..." section

Marquette: Had the pandemic not canceled the NCAA tournament, Marquette would have been entering this season with three appearances in the last four years. Granted, this season went off the rails following wins over Wisconsin and Creighton, but Steve Wojciechowski is signed through 2024, has two ESPN 100 recruits entering the program and I'm told the administration likes him.

Not what i was hoping to read to say the least.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 04, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Hey, https://www.coachesdatabase.com/hot-seat-report/ has added Wojo this week:

Steve Wojciechowski (Marquette)

Woj has taken the Golden Eagles to two NCAA Tournaments but has yet to win a game once getting there. This year’s team is bad and when you pair that with the numerous player defections (Hauser twins being the most impactful) and decent-to-average recruiting you get a coach that is vastly underperforming and a fan base that is frankly tired of it.

The Marquette program under Woj has been mediocre at best and when you look at the seasons without Markus Howard filling up the stat sheet, things look downright bleak.

His contract runs through 2023-24 but his buyout is unknown (private school).
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 04, 2021, 11:42:06 AM
This is a pretty spot on Cliff Notes version (for you younguns, google Cliff Notes) 'cept da Hausers are ant twins, aina?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: muwarrior69 on March 04, 2021, 11:47:00 AM
Hey, https://www.coachesdatabase.com/hot-seat-report/ has added Wojo this week:

Steve Wojciechowski (Marquette)

Woj has taken the Golden Eagles to two NCAA Tournaments but has yet to win a game once getting there. This year’s team is bad and when you pair that with the numerous player defections (Hauser twins being the most impactful) and decent-to-average recruiting you get a coach that is vastly underperforming and a fan base that is frankly tired of it.

The Marquette program under Woj has been mediocre at best and when you look at the seasons without Markus Howard filling up the stat sheet, things look downright bleak.

His contract runs through 2023-24 but his buyout is unknown (private school).


Yes, but he is not a racist like Greg McDermott and runs a clean program.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on March 04, 2021, 11:49:05 AM
To summarize:

Wojo either is or isn't on the hot seat.

It's March 4. Within the next month or so, we'll know exactly how hot his seat has been.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: tower912 on March 04, 2021, 11:51:12 AM
Schrodinger's cat.


Sch-wojo-dingers cat.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 04, 2021, 12:18:14 PM
To summarize:

Wojo either is or isn't on the hot seat.

It's March 4. Within the next month or so, we'll know exactly how hot his seat has been.

We will know in the next ten days.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 04, 2021, 12:20:54 PM
We will know in the next ten days.

Unless we win the BET! 😂
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 04, 2021, 12:27:48 PM
Unless we win the BET! 😂


Well, if we do that I think its safe to say he will be back next year.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on March 04, 2021, 02:38:43 PM
We will know in the next ten days.

Here's hoping.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: willie warrior on March 04, 2021, 05:34:09 PM
Unless we win the BET! 😂
Not happening. And it will be another frustrating March as we see many teams playing, but we are not. Wojo-Dukiet must go. But that likely is not happening with the candy ass decision makers at MU.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 04, 2021, 05:56:28 PM
Not happening. And it will be another frustrating March as we see many teams playing, but we are not. Wojo-Dukiet must go. But that likely is not happening with the candy ass decision makers at MU.

Have you quit making donations to the university?
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 04, 2021, 07:10:20 PM
Have you quit making donations to the university?
Your condescending logic is so backwards. Why punish the entire University for the failures of the basketball team?

I’m not so spiteful against Wojo that I’d like to see the entire school become a midmajor.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 04, 2021, 07:15:16 PM
Your condescending logic is so backwards. Why punish the entire University for the failures of the basketball team?

I’m not so spiteful against Wojo that I’d like to see the entire school become a midmajor.

Money talks, BS walks
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 04, 2021, 07:31:50 PM
Money talks, BS walks
Nice non-descript response. Now I’m sure you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: MU82 on March 04, 2021, 07:34:53 PM
Your condescending logic is so backwards. Why punish the entire University for the failures of the basketball team?

I’m not so spiteful against Wojo that I’d like to see the entire school become a midmajor.

We kind of agree. There's no reason to withhold donations to the engineering school or the journalism school or the philosophy department.

But buying basketball tickets - money they are just gonna turn around to use to pay for Wojo's extension - that's a heck of a way to show one wants Wojo gone.

The ONLY response that fans have at their disposal that has a chance to work is hitting the athletic department in the wallet -- even if you think that being on an interwebs site, kvetching, and belittling fellow fans who root for the team to win individual games is somehow better.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 04, 2021, 07:38:54 PM
Nice non-descript response. Now I’m sure you don’t know what you’re talking about.

If you think bellyaching on message boards over and over about the coach and program are what is going to get a change made immediately, you’re wrong.  No one is any longer arguing about the merits of keeping Wojo as a coach on these here message boards.  Maybe they are at Dodds but not on Scoop.  The horse has been beaten to death.  Actions speak louder than words.  Money speaks louder than actions for places like Marquette.  That’s just a way of life.  You don’t have to like it, but if people want immediate change, hit them where it hurts immediately and that isn’t having every post you make on scoop about the coach and program
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Viper on March 04, 2021, 07:45:21 PM
Your condescending logic is so backwards. Why punish the entire University for the failures of the basketball team?

I’m not so spiteful against Wojo that I’d like to see the entire school become a midmajor.
Lovell overextended. That new biz school bldg? Will be half empty. Zoom.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: JWags85 on March 04, 2021, 07:50:43 PM
Lovell overextended. That new biz school bldg? Will be half empty. Zoom.

Don’t get ahead of yourself. The idea that most or greatly increasing amounts of Higher Ed will be Zoom or virtual is overdone. It has appeal but most students, especially business students, and professors still want a traditional classroom experience.

Acting like it’s going to sit empty cause everything will be virtual is as silly as assuming all office towers downtown will be empty cause we got breathless articles from tech writers over the summer declaring the end of traditional offices
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Viper on March 04, 2021, 07:52:34 PM
Don’t get ahead of yourself. The idea that most or greatly increasing amounts of Higher Ed is overdone. It has appeal but most students, especially business students, and professors still want a traditional classroom experience.

Acting like it’s going to sit empty cause everything will be virtual is as silly as assuming all office towers downtown will be empty cause we got breathless articles from tech writers over the summer declaring the end of traditional offices
tour on me. Free of charge. Dont worry. We won’t be interrupting anyone.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 04, 2021, 08:01:06 PM
Don’t get ahead of yourself. The idea that most or greatly increasing amounts of Higher Ed will be Zoom or virtual is overdone. It has appeal but most students, especially business students, and professors still want a traditional classroom experience.

Acting like it’s going to sit empty cause everything will be virtual is as silly as assuming all office towers downtown will be empty cause we got breathless articles from tech writers over the summer declaring the end of traditional offices

Completely agreed. In fact I think this year showed why an on campus, residential education is so valuable.
Title: Re: Fire Wojo !
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 04, 2021, 08:01:59 PM
Completely agreed. In fact I think this year showed why an on campus, residential education is so valuable.

Many businesses pride themselves on their fancy offices and buildings.  It’s a chance to show off