Recruiting as of 9/15/24

[Elonsmusk]

Eh, I'm also not overly impressed with Shaka's recruiting at Marquette so far.  However, if he can get "culture" to win a bunch of games, I'll be all in.  Only time will tell.

Shaka has a very clear culture and recruiting philosophy - Recruit hungry, high-character,  ascending, athletic players, who have high upside.  He clearly wants to build through 4-year players.  Land the Top 25-50s and those teams can be hard to get to play together, limited continuity, and in this age of NIL - likely needing to throw some nice cash at those kids.

Shaka has said his plan with NIL is to invest those dollars INTO his guys already at MU.  So, you recruit the 75-150s, they develop/improve to where they are coveted elsewhere and you then pay them through NIL to retain and not disrupt continuity.

Shaka is a smart dude.  He's quite a bit savvier than his predecessor.  Odd that you gave that guy nearly 7 years of rope and making excuses for him yet have largely taken a tone of being underwhelmed by Shaka.

[4everwarriors]

Sum of y'all klearly don't no ball, aina?

[BCHoopster]

I am not sure about there record this upcoming season but the following year they should be at the Top of the conference with 10 players coming back with experience.

[cheebs09]

I guess I would take recruiting rankings for the last 2 classes with an even bigger grain of salt. With the pandemic, I don't think players were evaluated nearly as much as in the past. I think there's going to be a lot of guys that we look back on and wonder how they weren't Top 100 guys.

I trust Shaka's eye for talent over the recruiting sites.

[withoutbias]

Shaka has a very clear culture and recruiting philosophy - Recruit hungry, high-character,  ascending, athletic players, who have high upside.  He clearly wants to build through 4-year players.  Land the Top 25-50s and those teams can be hard to get to play together, limited continuity, and in this age of NIL - likely needing to throw some nice cash at those kids.

Shaka has said his plan with NIL is to invest those dollars INTO his guys already at MU.  So, you recruit the 75-150s, they develop/improve to where they are coveted elsewhere and you then pay them through NIL to retain and not disrupt continuity.

Shaka is a smart dude.  He's quite a bit savvier than his predecessor.  Odd that you gave that guy nearly 7 years of rope and making excuses for him yet have largely taken a tone of being underwhelmed by Shaka.

Interestingly, his predecessor got 7 years here.  In Shaka's past 7 years as a coach, those two won the same number of NCAA Tournament games as each other.  6 of those seasons, Shaka was at a better program than Marquette.  And the year after Shaka left that program, they won an NCAA Tournament game.

Sum of y'all klearly don't no ball, aina?

Agreed.

[rocky_warrior]

Shaka is a smart dude.  He's quite a bit savvier than his predecessor.  Odd that you gave that guy nearly 7 years of rope and making excuses for him yet have largely taken a tone of being underwhelmed by Shaka.

I'm evaluating Shaka based on 13 years.  If he wins at Marquette, I'll be on the bandwagon.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Man, it'd sure be nice to start competing with other high major for kids instead of the Browns and Southern Illinois's of the world.

I know what the slurpers will say.  "TAMU came in for this kid we got!  Xavier is offering that kid we're offering!"  But those are one off programs in a list of mid (at best) majors. I want players who are listed with the Kentuckys, Kansases, UNCs, and Dukes of the world, not the Salukis.

How often do you think Marquette is going to realistically win recruiting battles against the "Kentuckys, Kansases, UNCs, and Dukes of the world"?  If that is your expectation you're setting yourself up for disappointment. 

You might want to give it more than a year and a half to see how Shaka's recruiting evolves. 

[Newsdreams]

I believe in winning basketball games.  I don't care if the players are best friends with each other.  Kobe and Shaq hated each other.  They also won.  KD and Draymond hated each other.  They won.  I want kids who don't harm others, who don't fail their classes (a small ask given all the support they get) and who are incredibly good at basketball.  They can go to Southern Illinois and stink if they want to be best friends.

#ShakaCan'tRecruit #FireShaka

[Pakuni]

I trust Shaka's eye for talent over the recruiting sites.

What about other coaches?
I've always thought the best indicator of a recruit's upside is what other programs are recruiting him. Not that top programs don't sometimes overlook/miss top talent - they do, every year - but it's as good a barometer as any.

Anyhow, I'm not here to bash Shaka's recruiting. We'll know in the next couple of years how good it is. I'm here to bash the idea that "culture and development" means recruiting overlooked, underranked and lower rated kids.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

In addition to other points already being made, I suspect insta-transfers have also changed how some coaches think about recruiting. I wouldn't be surprised if some of our more fringe targets are guys that Shaka and Co. believe could make a jump but know aren't ready yet. They will end up at a mid-major and if they blow up in a year or two, Shaka already has an established relationship.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What about other coaches?
I'm here to bash the idea that "culture and development" means recruiting overlooked, underranked and lower rated kids.

No need to bash as it is a straw man you created.

[Pakuni]

How often do you think Marquette is going to realistically win recruiting battles against the "Kentuckys, Kansases, UNCs, and Dukes of the world"?  If that is your expectation you're setting yourself up for disappointment. 

Going to have to do it occasionally if you're hoping for a team that consistently has a chance at Sweet 16s and beyond.
Or is that no longer an expectation around here?

[Pakuni]

No need to bash as it is a straw man you created.

Is it, now?
Earlier today, WithoutBias posted:
"Man, it'd sure be nice to start competing with other high major for kids instead of the Browns and Southern Illinois's of the world."

To which Tower immediately responded:
"So, you don't believe in culture and development."

Doesn't seem like a straw man to me.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Is it, now?
Earlier today, WithoutBias posted:
"Man, it'd sure be nice to start competing with other high major for kids instead of the Browns and Southern Illinois's of the world."

To which Tower immediately responded:
"So, you don't believe in culture and development."

Doesn't seem like a straw man to me.

Tower can correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood him to mean that he was criticizing that WB seemed to believe that we couldn't win with the players we've recruited. I didn't see anything about culture/development and talented recruits being mutually exclusive.

[Pakuni]

Tower can correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood him to mean that he was criticizing that WB seemed to believe that we couldn't win with the players we've recruited. I didn't see anything about culture/development and talented recruits being mutually exclusive.

Very generous reading, but OK.
But what I wrote still isn't a straw man. It's been a consistent theme around here for the past year-plus that Shaka is intentionally foregoing players that are (at least perceived as) high-end talent as a means of building culture.

[GoldenEagles03]

I would like a widebody and 6'6 freak athlete.    I will learn to live with my disappointment.   

It is clear that he likes mobile, versatile forwards with length.   And athletic guards.

Coach smart has already landed more athletic guards in 18 months than Wojo did in 7 years.   

Chase Ross is 2 inches shorter than 6'6" and OMax is 2 inches taller than 6'6", but those are your strong freak athletes.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Very generous reading, but OK.
But what I wrote still isn't a straw man. It's been a consistent theme around here for the past year-plus that Shaka is intentionally foregoing players that are (at least perceived as) high-end talent as a means of building culture.

It really hasn't been. You just keep insisting that it has been. What has been said is that Shaka won't take a high ranked (or average ranked or low ranked) player that doesn't fit the culture. That does not mean that being high ranked somehow keeps a player from fitting the culture.

The other thing that has been said is that Shaka seems to be avoiding one and dones, at least at this point in the process. I think that could change in the future.

[tower912]

Chase Ross is 2 inches shorter than 6'6" and OMax is 2 inches taller than 6'6", but those are your strong freak athletes.

I like Omax.   I want more like him.   The 6'6-7 do everything, guard 5 position 2-3 type.    The 6'4 types are fine.  And we will certainly get a chance to see them for the next few years.

[Pakuni]

It really hasn't been. You just keep insisting that it has been. What has been said is that Shaka won't take a high ranked (or average ranked or low ranked) player that doesn't fit the culture. That does not mean that being high ranked somehow keeps a player from fitting the culture.

The other thing that has been said is that Shaka seems to be avoiding one and dones, at least at this point in the process. I think that could change in the future.

So, is it your contention that there simply are no high-ranked players that fit the culture, or that there are, but Shaka just hasn't been able to land them?
Cause if he's not intentionally avoiding high-ranked players because of culture, then it's got to be one of those two things.
As for avoiding one-and-dones, meh. There are only about 20 any given year, which means there are dozens of top 50/75 kids out there to recruit while avoiding one-and-dones.

I'm completely open to (and hopeful for) Shaka's recruiting strategy working brilliantly. But I don't think it's unreasonable to have concerns about the perceived lack of high-end players walking through the door so far.

[tower912]

Tower can correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood him to mean that he was criticizing that WB seemed to believe that we couldn't win with the players we've recruited. I didn't see anything about culture/development and talented recruits being mutually exclusive.

Nor do I.   I have concerns.   I want more switchables.   I criticized Wojo for the same thing.    But the die is cast.   For the foreseeable future, the roster is mostly set.  So, the best hope is for improvement of existing players.   I think this will be an up and down year.   Flashes of awesome.  Flashes of youth.   I was responding in what I thought was an obvious fashion that the poster seems skeptical of development.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Going to have to do it occasionally if you're hoping for a team that consistently has a chance at Sweet 16s and beyond.
Or is that no longer an expectation around here?

So you took a leap from saying we shouldn't expect to consistently win recruiting battles against blue bloods to generalizing low expectations for the program?  Hmmm.

[Pakuni]

So you took a leap from saying we shouldn't expect to consistently win recruiting battles against blue bloods to generalizing low expectations for the program?  Hmmm.

No, I answered your question.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

No, I answered your question.

The question wasn't intended for you....based on your posts I wouldn't think you would expect Marquette to consistently win those recruiting battles.  As you said, I agree that it would be good for the program to beat one of those schools every once in a while but it's not a viable overall strategy.  Nor do I think understanding that means someone is satisfied with no trips to the sweet 16 and beyond (although let's win a single game in the tourney first would be nice). 

I think it's fine to have questions about Shaka's approach so far but to me it's far too soon to really know how it's going to evolve.  It'll depend on development and team success.

And far as culture, it seems pretty clear that Shaka won't go after someone who's not a fit no matter how talented and that's something I support.  As said, it doesn't mean there won't be highly-ranked guys who are great fits in that regard. 

Without Bias said he doesn't care if players get along because Shaq/Kobe and KD/Draymond hated each other and they won at a high level.  That's an absurd and irrelevant comparison when you're talking about college players. 

[withoutbias]

The culture better find more talented players. If it doesn't, then the culture needs to change.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The culture better find more talented players. If it doesn't, then the culture needs to change.

I mean, instead of constantly bitching about it now, why don't we see how it plays out? He's one season in and outperformed expectations.