Recruiting as of 3/15/24

[JWags85]

Whose team are you on? Granted Carton has talent, but he needs more seasoning at Marquette. He plAys like a "young" talent.

It would be more fun as a Marquette fan for him to get more “seasoning” at MU, sure, but you are 1000% wrong if you think that prepares him better for a pro career. There are infinite examples of players making a leap once they leave college and play full time. College coaches by and large are coaching them to win college basketball games, not preparing and cultivating their game for the pro game.

Prohm really ran the ISU program, after Hoiberg's success, into the ground.  14-36 past two seasons, 5-26 in Big 12 play.  I wonder if Hoiberg would want to go back to ISU.  He, too, has had a really bad two years at Nebraska, and he's getting paid more than his predecessor (Tim Miles), who had greater success at Nebraska than Hoiberg has had.  Some basketball programs are just incapable of reaching sustained success (Nebraska, for whatever reason, very much appears to be one of them). 

Hoiberg took over a pretty bare cupboard. Miles last two classes weren’t even top 75. I don’t think he recruited any top 125, much less top 100 guys during his time. (Sidenote, Miles D-1 career is wildly unimpressive.)  so that plus a good B10 has the makings of a rough start for Hoiberg. He’s got a borderline top 20 recruiting class coming in though

[franklinjerry]

Completely agree Carton doesn't "NEED" to stay at MU. Carton NEEDS to become a better basketball player to maximize his earning potential. This can be accomplished in several pay for play leagues in the US or elsewhere. Improving skills can happen in places other than college.

I'm always puzzled by those who "know" that player X, Y or Z made a mistake by declaring for the draft. Not every player who leaves school early believes they are ready for the NBA. Some simply want to start getting paid for their efforts on the court, not for their earning potential via the classroom.

[shoothoops]

NBA is often based on potential, not necessarily a finished product.

Last night Detroit Piston Rookie point guard Saben Lee had 21 points in twenty eight minutes in a win. He started out in college as a 6'2 two guard. He left college early after three years at Vandy for Bryce Drew/Jerry Stackhouse. Trying to make it as an NBA point guard. He isn't a finished product yet, but he keeps getting better and better.

[panda]

NBA Draft is often based on potential, not necessarily a finished product.

Last night Detroit Piston Rookie point guard Saben Lee had 21 points in twenty eight minutes in a win. He started out in college as a 6'2 two guard. He left college early after three years at Vandy for Bryce Drew/Jerry Stackhouse. Trying to make it as an NBA point guard. He isn't a finished product yet, but he keeps getting better and better.

Selfishly, I want good players to stay in college because I like college basketball.

Logically speaking, most players will improve playing more games and with/against better and more seasoned competition.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

If Charles does join up, that pushes us to 12 scholarships used assuming no transfers. I'd assume at least one or two transfers and Carton is reportedly considering going pro. Should end up being room for a insta-transfer or two. My hope was for Nimari Burnett but latest rumors seem to have him looking elsewhere.

If Charles commits, I like the balance of the 21 class. We will have a PG, SG, SF, and C in the fold. Mitchell and Aidoo both look like instant contributors as well.

TAMU (or others) is my understanding on a few things correct:

-Theo, Koby and Jamal can all return next season and it doesn't count again any scholarship count, correct?  So basically, if MU filled out their 13 scholarships, they could essentially play with 16 scholarship players next season?  I know no one knows for sure what the plan for those 3 are at this point and Wojo has said they'll discuss after the season.  I certainly wouldn't mind Theo and Jamal coming back, and could see that happening. 

-Are graduating seniors free to transfer and use that extra year as a grad transfer elsewhere?  Not specifically related to our seniors, but if so (which I believe to be the case), this offseason is going to be wild.  You could have programs building really talented rosters just off guys who were supposed to be using up their eligibility this season. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU (or others) is my understanding on a few things correct:

-Theo, Koby and Jamal can all return next season and it doesn't count again any scholarship count, correct?  So basically, if MU filled out their 13 scholarships, they could essentially play with 16 scholarship players next season?  I know no one knows for sure what the plan for those 3 are at this point and Wojo has said they'll discuss after the season.  I certainly wouldn't mind Theo and Jamal coming back, and could see that happening. 

Your understanding here is correct. Personally, I think they make a run at keeping Theo but anticipate the other two will for sure move on.

-Are graduating seniors free to transfer and use that extra year as a grad transfer elsewhere?  Not specifically related to our seniors, but if so (which I believe to be the case), this offseason is going to be wild.  You could have programs building really talented rosters just off guys who were supposed to be using up their eligibility this season. 

They are free to transfer and use their extra year. However, if they transfer, they count against the new school's scholarship total. So if Koby transferred back to Utah State for example, he could do that, but his scholarship counts against their 13 scholarship limit. If he stayed here, he would not count against our scholarship limit.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Your understanding here is correct. Personally, I think they make a run at keeping Theo but anticipate the other two will for sure move on.

They are free to transfer and use their extra year. However, if they transfer, they count against the new school's scholarship total. So if Koby transferred back to Utah State for example, he could do that, but his scholarship counts against their 13 scholarship limit. If he stayed here, he would not count against our scholarship limit.

Thanks for the quick response and clarification!!

[Galway Eagle]

Your understanding here is correct. Personally, I think they make a run at keeping Theo but anticipate the other two will for sure move on.

They are free to transfer and use their extra year. However, if they transfer, they count against the new school's scholarship total. So if Koby transferred back to Utah State for example, he could do that, but his scholarship counts against their 13 scholarship limit. If he stayed here, he would not count against our scholarship limit.

You think Jamal leaves if Greg stays?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I would be surprised if anyone stays.  They got most of a full season in, probably going to earn their degrees in May, so its likely time to move on and earn some cash.

[The Lens]

Completely agree Carton doesn't "NEED" to stay at MU. Carton NEEDS to become a better basketball player to maximize his earning potential. This can be accomplished in several pay for play leagues in the US or elsewhere. Improving skills can happen in places other than college.

I'm always puzzled by those who "know" that player X, Y or Z made a mistake by declaring for the draft. Not every player who leaves school early believes they are ready for the NBA. Some simply want to start getting paid for their efforts on the court, not for their earning potential via the classroom.

Let's say I'm a broadcast major and I leave after junior year to take a $25,000 job in Madison.  In a few years I'm making $100,000 in Milwaukee, and my career keeps building from there.   But I never make it to Lester Holt's spot.  Should I have stayed in school?  Measuring these kids by the NBA is a tough standard.  You can make a good living playing overseas and then when your career winds down you can coach / train / scout.  And you can always work on your degree in off seasons or remotely.  Go make your money.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I would be surprised if anyone stays.  They got most of a full season in, probably going to earn their degrees in May, so its likely time to move on and earn some cash.

This is my thought as well. Theo is the most likely to stay IMHO but still think it's more likely he leaves

[MU82]

Let's say I'm a broadcast major and I leave after junior year to take a $25,000 job in Madison.  In a few years I'm making $100,000 in Milwaukee, and my career keeps building from there.   But I never make it to Lester Holt's spot.  Should I have stayed in school?  Measuring these kids by the NBA is a tough standard.  You can make a good living playing overseas and then when your career winds down you can coach / train / scout.  And you can always work on your degree in off seasons or remotely.  Go make your money.

This is spot-on.

[panda]

This is my thought as well. Theo is the most likely to stay IMHO but still think it's more likely he leaves

I agree. I don't much to gain for the guys to return and I think the coaching staff will be more inclined to let them walk as well. The staff has recruited multiple guys to come in and play and a returning covid senior may skew some of the promises made on the recruiting trail.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I agree. I don't much to gain for the guys to return and I think the coaching staff will be more inclined to let them walk as well. The staff has recruited multiple guys to come in and play and a returning covid senior may skew some of the promises made on the recruiting trail.

While I would agree that may not be much to gain returning, its not like Jamal, Theo or Koby are going to make big time bucks playing basketball.  A free graduate degree while playing basketball fulltime without really having to worry about school (I don't think these graduate programs most grad transfers take are very strenuous) has to be pretty attractive to guys that are going to middling overseas pros at best.  Delaying being a bench player in some bullsh*t league in a Turkey for a year while playing another year of college basketball doesn't sound all bad.

That being said, no idea if they staff would want them back.  But depth never hurts and our incoming class isn't exactly impressive or promise-worthy.   

[dgies9156]

Here's the logic for all three:

1) Theo -- STAY. Staying would allow him to start graduate school, strengthen his education and allow him to further polish his skills. He certainly would start next year and would be a player/coach, especially if Wojo stays and we successfully retain Mr. Aidoo. Plus, his short-term NBA prognosis is, at best modest. He starts down both a coaching role and gets a huge start on grad school.

2) Jamal -- GO. Going would serve him well. Again, assuming Wojo stays, we're going to have a ton of guards and hopefully some shooters. Look for the team to focus on developing Osa and Garcia at the corners. Both are reasonable shooters and should fill Jamal's role. He's not a ball handler or true guard based on what we have seen this year. Never say never but a clear path to the NBA is not evident. Probably a solid European player.

3) Koby -- GO. He's been in college for five years now. Two with us and two with Utah State. Next year would be his sixth year and unless he's trying to complete a graduate degree, he's done all he can do for Marquette. Better than Joseph Chatounny, who also transferred into this position, but wildly inconsistent. We have seen flashes of brilliance, such as last year's Purdue game, but the turnovers make us all want to scream. Assuming DJ Carton stays, our recruits plus Greg Elliott and possibly, Perez, put us in good shape at the guard position. Plus, if there's a shooter/ball handler out there for an immediate transfer, count on Coach Wojo to seek him out.

If Wojo leaves, they're all gone. Of the three, the most likely to spend a fifth year sans Wojo would be Jamal Cain.

[panda]

While I would agree that may not be much to gain returning, its not like Jamal, Theo or Koby are going to make big time bucks playing basketball.  A free graduate degree while playing basketball fulltime without really having to worry about school (I don't think these graduate programs most grad transfers take are very strenuous) has to be pretty attractive to guys that are going to middling overseas pros at best.  Delaying being a bench player in some bullsh*t league in a Turkey for a year while playing another year of college basketball doesn't sound all bad.

That being said, no idea if they staff would want them back.  But depth never hurts and our incoming class isn't exactly impressive or promise-worthy.   

Big East hoops graduates will generally play in a mid to mid upper tier league overseas which would net them anywhere from 70-100k for a season, expenses paid. A graduate degree isn't very appealing to a guy who wants to play basketball professionally.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Theo is the one who will make money overseas playing ball.  American bigs are paid well in many leagues.  Hell, Chris Otule is still a pro over in Japan.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Big East hoops graduates will generally play in a mid to mid upper tier league overseas which would net them anywhere from 70-100k for a season, expenses paid. A graduate degree isn't very appealing to a guy who wants to play basketball professionally.

Yah.  Everything I said still applies. 

[Stretchdeltsig]

If most of the players are good enough to play pro ball, why bother will college ball?

[dgies9156]

Theo is the one who will make money overseas playing ball.  American bigs are paid well in many leagues.  Hell, Chris Otule is still a pro over in Japan.

I agree and of the three, Theo has the most potential. Left unsaid is whether he would be better served with one more year polishing his game and maybe trying for the NBA, or heading for Europe.

Honestly, on a personal level, we'd be better off he stayed. Should Wojo stay and if Carton and Garcia are back, a full summer of training and development might make sure we do not have another s*itfest of a season. If he goes, we better find a one-year center somewhere in the transfer market.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Here's the logic for all three:

1) Theo -- STAY. Staying would allow him to start graduate school, strengthen his education and allow him to further polish his skills. He certainly would start next year and would be a player/coach, especially if Wojo stays and we successfully retain Mr. Aidoo. Plus, his short-term NBA prognosis is, at best modest. He starts down both a coaching role and gets a huge start on grad school.

2) Jamal -- GO. Going would serve him well. Again, assuming Wojo stays, we're going to have a ton of guards and hopefully some shooters. Look for the team to focus on developing Osa and Garcia at the corners. Both are reasonable shooters and should fill Jamal's role. He's not a ball handler or true guard based on what we have seen this year. Never say never but a clear path to the NBA is not evident. Probably a solid European player.

3) Koby -- GO. He's been in college for five years now. Two with us and two with Utah State. Next year would be his sixth year and unless he's trying to complete a graduate degree, he's done all he can do for Marquette. Better than Joseph Chatounny, who also transferred into this position, but wildly inconsistent. We have seen flashes of brilliance, such as last year's Purdue game, but the turnovers make us all want to scream. Assuming DJ Carton stays, our recruits plus Greg Elliott and possibly, Perez, put us in good shape at the guard position. Plus, if there's a shooter/ball handler out there for an immediate transfer, count on Coach Wojo to seek him out.

If Wojo leaves, they're all gone. Of the three, the most likely to spend a fifth year sans Wojo would be Jamal Cain.

If Wojo leaves, it may be more likely these guys stay.  If Wojo leaves, the roster turnover will probably be significant.  A new coach would probably be looking for bodies. 

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

If most of the players are good enough to play pro ball, why bother will college ball?

Doesn't that apply to pretty much any above average high major player?  Why even bother with college if you can just go make money playing basketball? Yet, the vast majority go the college route. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I agree and of the three, Theo has the most potential. Left unsaid is whether he would be better served with one more year polishing his game and maybe trying for the NBA, or heading for Europe.

He's been at Marquette for four years.  He's 22 years old.  I'm not sure what an extra year is going to do for him to "polish his game."  He's an undersized (for the NBA) rim protector with limited offensive game.

And I think he could polish his game in the G-League or Europe just as easy.

Honestly, on a personal level, we'd be better off he stayed. Should Wojo stay and if Carton and Garcia are back, a full summer of training and development might make sure we do not have another s*itfest of a season. If he goes, we better find a one-year center somewhere in the transfer market.

I would LOVE if Theo stayed.  Him starting, with Aidoo as a back up, makes a lot of sense to me.

But I think the allure of staying in school isn't always shared by the players.  It's probably best for him to move on.

[Galway Eagle]

If most of the players are good enough to play pro ball, why bother will college ball?

1. Publicity, your agent has to sell something.

2. "American sports dream" we idolize our college athletes and they are forever immortalized.

3. Some do genuinely want to be the first person in their family to go to college.

4. Development, some might be too skinny to get a serious look out of HS

5.  Play against the best, whether for the better or worse the vast majority of tomorrow's stars are still playing high major college ball. There's something to be said about playing against or alongside the guy you see making all nba teams in a few years.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

College is the best option for the vast majority of players.  The level of coaching and competition is miles above high school and AAU.  And with all the talk about NIL rights and amateurism, a college degree is still worth a bunch of lifetime earnings.

It's a fun stage to play on.  It gives you the exposure if you want / can make that next step.  It helps you start out on a career that may not be in basketball.