Recruiting as of 5/15/24

[MU82]

Young was the first choice over Gill. Not close. Your narrative that wojo can't recruit because he lost to two blue bloods recruiting two of the most coveted grad transfers and he had two misses this season on recruits that weren't going to move the needle much is fairly laughable. Top ten class his first year, top 20 class his second, one of the best grad transfers available his first summer, high quality transfer his second summer, and one of the best grad transfers available his third summer.

I know you don't like wojo but at least try to make arguments that make sense.

This.

Hoopster & His Haters keeps embarrassing themselves. 95% of the schools out there (at least) wish their coach had Wojo's recruiting record.

[bilsu]

The question was how accurate is Mark Miller with his predictions. Some pointed to him predicting Young to MU as proof he is not accurate. I am assuming he makes his predictions based on inside information. Perhaps talking with MU's staff, contacting recruits, their parents or in the case of State of Wisconsin players talking with their high school coaches. It could be he is just making his predictions out of thin air, but I believe he actually knows more than the average poster here. It is obvious he ended up wrong on his prediction on Young, but the real question to me is why he was wrong. I suspect when he made his prediction it was what was really expected to happen. Why it change is debatable. I certainly can argue that Wojo lost a recruit that he had. I am basing this assumption on the fact that he actually cut a player to make room for the next recruit that he did not get. You are free to argue that Miller has no idea what he is doing. Maybe it is somewhere between those two. Going back to Miller predicting Ike to MU, which started this whole thing, I believe Miller is making it with good reasons. Of course something can change, but based on what is known now by Miller the crystal ball is a good indication.

[MuMark]

Why was Miller wrong on Young?

Are you serious?

Nobody is going to be right all the time. He knew MU was in good shape and made a pick...the kid took his visit to Providence and seemed to hit it off very well with the other players. He may have also been told that Bentil was staying in the draft and he would be guaranteed rotation minutes as a frosh. Who knows?

You are looking pretty hard for somebody to blame........in recruiting you are going to lose more then you win.

Get a grip

[Herman Cain]

@UDJHoopsCoach: UD Jesuit forward Ike Eke will be making an official visit to Marquette University this weekend.  #CubPride

2017 big man is a three star target.

Hope the visit is going well. Ike is a key recruit.

[GGGG]

The question was how accurate is Mark Miller with his predictions. Some pointed to him predicting Young to MU as proof he is not accurate. I am assuming he makes his predictions based on inside information. Perhaps talking with MU's staff, contacting recruits, their parents or in the case of State of Wisconsin players talking with their high school coaches. It could be he is just making his predictions out of thin air, but I believe he actually knows more than the average poster here. It is obvious he ended up wrong on his prediction on Young, but the real question to me is why he was wrong. I suspect when he made his prediction it was what was really expected to happen. Why it change is debatable. I certainly can argue that Wojo lost a recruit that he had. I am basing this assumption on the fact that he actually cut a player to make room for the next recruit that he did not get. You are free to argue that Miller has no idea what he is doing. Maybe it is somewhere between those two. Going back to Miller predicting Ike to MU, which started this whole thing, I believe Miller is making it with good reasons. Of course something can change, but based on what is known now by Miller the crystal ball is a good indication.

Here is what Mark said in this very thread:  "The Crystal Ball thing is just an educated guess. It's kind of a fun thing to do, but truthfully, recruiting is so hit and miss that it means little."

So stop bending logic and simply understand that a recruiting miss is simply a recruiting miss. 

[Jay Bee]

The question was how accurate is Mark Miller with his predictions. Some pointed to him predicting Young to MU as proof he is not accurate. I am assuming he makes his predictions based on inside information. Perhaps talking with MU's staff, contacting recruits, their parents or in the case of State of Wisconsin players talking with their high school coaches. It could be he is just making his predictions out of thin air, but I believe he actually knows more than the average poster here. It is obvious he ended up wrong on his prediction on Young, but the real question to me is why he was wrong. I suspect when he made his prediction it was what was really expected to happen. Why it change is debatable. I certainly can argue that Wojo lost a recruit that he had. I am basing this assumption on the fact that he actually cut a player to make room for the next recruit that he did not get. You are free to argue that Miller has no idea what he is doing. Maybe it is somewhere between those two. Going back to Miller predicting Ike to MU, which started this whole thing, I believe Miller is making it with good reasons. Of course something can change, but based on what is known now by Miller the crystal ball is a good indication.

MOST of the time, people playing the cristal bowel marketing game are just following well-known news like anyone else can. There are circumstances where undoubtedly some folks have unique knowledge that isn't in the public domain.. but, most of the time there are obvious indicators that show why picks shift.

Your commentary further exemplifies why the cristal bowel is problematic. Dumb people take it to mean something it doesn't.

[MarkMiller]

MOST of the time, people playing the cristal bowel marketing game are just following well-known news like anyone else can. There are circumstances where undoubtedly some folks have unique knowledge that isn't in the public domain.. but, most of the time there are obvious indicators that show why picks shift.

Your commentary further exemplifies why the cristal bowel is problematic. Dumb people take it to mean something it doesn't.

Not exactly. But not totally incorrect, either.

With Marquette recruits, I went 3 of 4 in 2016 (Hauser, Bailey, Howard in and Young was the miss), 5 of 5 in 2015 (Carter, Anim, Cheatham, Ellenson, Heldt) and 1 of 1 in 2014 (Cohen. I had also correctly predicted Amhed Hill and Marial Shayok before Buzz left).

"Dumb people take it to mean something it doesn't" is kind of a harsh statement. There are most definitely times it means little, but other times it means much more.

Bottom line is it's a fun thing to follow, even if it isn't always accurate.

[jsglow]

Not exactly. But not totally incorrect, either.

With Marquette recruits, I went 3 of 4 in 2016 (Hauser, Bailey, Howard in and Young was the miss), 5 of 5 in 2015 (Carter, Anim, Cheatham, Ellenson, Heldt) and 1 of 1 in 2014 (Cohen. I had also correctly predicted Amhed Hill and Marial Shayok before Buzz left).

"Dumb people take it to mean something it doesn't" is kind of a harsh statement. There are most definitely times it means little, but other times it means much more.

Bottom line is it's a fun thing to follow, even if it isn't always accurate.

Exactly.  And thanks for what you do and your contribution to this thread.  Anytime you want to reach out to help me keep the chart accurate I'm happy for the update.

[HoopsterBC]

This.

Hoopster & His Haters keeps embarrassing themselves. 95% of the schools out there (at least) wish their coach had Wojo's recruiting record.

Ok, since I am one of the haters, let me figure out what he has done in recruiting so far.  First off, you can look at recruiting in many ways.  Henry Ellenson is an A for
one year, Cheatham is a solid B plus,  Carter a B minus, and Heldt and Anim are incompletes or non-factors the first year.  The class that was ranked in the Top 10 is
over, did they get to any tournament?  No.  2nd year (not counting the first year)   Hauser a nice recruit and so is Howard, Rowsey we will see.  Bailey can not count as
at best he is 50/50 showing up.  Howard, Bailey and Reinhardt are Stan Johnson kids from his past, Wojo gets an A for signing SJ.  This years upcoming team will have
a hard time getting into the tournament again.  Hope I am wrong.  The following year he will lose three solid players and just Matt Heldt coming back.  I will have a change of heart about his recruiting in 2017 if he lands some inside talent.  He has showed his hand trying to recruit many top 100 kids, lets see what happens.  In
my mind the jury is still out.  If you think I am a hater, fine, facts are brutal.  The fact is you do not recruit or sign every player but with playing time at the 4, I would
hope he would have found someone.  He new there was a chance Henry was leaving even after he signed him, had a whole year and could not find anybody.  Lets see how the year plays out with small ball, as a hater I still hope they make a tournament, even the NIT would be a start.  Buzz did leave the program a mess that is
for sure.

[brandx]

Ok, since I am one of the haters, let me figure out what he has done in recruiting so far.  First off, you can look at recruiting in many ways.  Henry Ellenson is an A for
one year, Cheatham is a solid B plus,  Carter a B minus, and Heldt and Anim are incompletes or non-factors the first year.  The class that was ranked in the Top 10 is
over, did they get to any tournament?  No.  2nd year (not counting the first year)   Hauser a nice recruit and so is Howard, Rowsey we will see.  Bailey can not count as
at best he is 50/50 showing up.  Howard, Bailey and Reinhardt are Stan Johnson kids from his past, Wojo gets an A for signing SJ.  This years upcoming team will have
a hard time getting into the tournament again.  Hope I am wrong.  The following year he will lose three solid players and just Matt Heldt coming back.  I will have a change of heart about his recruiting in 2017 if he lands some inside talent.  He has showed his hand trying to recruit many top 100 kids, lets see what happens.  In
my mind the jury is still out.  If you think I am a hater, fine, facts are brutal.  The fact is you do not recruit or sign every player but with playing time at the 4, I would
hope he would have found someone.  He new there was a chance Henry was leaving even after he signed him, had a whole year and could not find anybody.  Lets see how the year plays out with small ball, as a hater I still hope they make a tournament, even the NIT would be a start.  Buzz did leave the program a mess that is
for sure.

Say something positive about MU. Just once.

[brandx]

Not exactly. But not totally incorrect, either.

With Marquette recruits, I went 3 of 4 in 2016 (Hauser, Bailey, Howard in and Young was the miss), 5 of 5 in 2015 (Carter, Anim, Cheatham, Ellenson, Heldt) and 1 of 1 in 2014 (Cohen. I had also correctly predicted Amhed Hill and Marial Shayok before Buzz left).

"Dumb people take it to mean something it doesn't" is kind of a harsh statement. There are most definitely times it means little, but other times it means much more.

Bottom line is it's a fun thing to follow, even if it isn't always accurate.

Almost all of us appreciate the information that you give.

Of course, no one is going to be perfect. These are 17-18 year old kids who change their minds for a myriad of reasons.

Even if a player told you to your face he is coming to Marquette, that is still no guarantee that he would follow through.

Yet for some reason, a poster or two always need to take issue - for whatever reason.

[jsglow]

Ok, since I am one of the haters, let me figure out what he has done in recruiting so far.  First off, you can look at recruiting in many ways.  Henry Ellenson is an A for
one year, Cheatham is a solid B plus,  Carter a B minus, and Heldt and Anim are incompletes or non-factors the first year.  The class that was ranked in the Top 10 is
over, did they get to any tournament?  No.  2nd year (not counting the first year)   Hauser a nice recruit and so is Howard, Rowsey we will see.  Bailey can not count as
at best he is 50/50 showing up.  Howard, Bailey and Reinhardt are Stan Johnson kids from his past, Wojo gets an A for signing SJ.  This years upcoming team will have
a hard time getting into the tournament again.  Hope I am wrong.  The following year he will lose three solid players and just Matt Heldt coming back.  I will have a change of heart about his recruiting in 2017 if he lands some inside talent.  He has showed his hand trying to recruit many top 100 kids, lets see what happens.  In
my mind the jury is still out.  If you think I am a hater, fine, facts are brutal.  The fact is you do not recruit or sign every player but with playing time at the 4, I would
hope he would have found someone.  He new there was a chance Henry was leaving even after he signed him, had a whole year and could not find anybody.  Lets see how the year plays out with small ball, as a hater I still hope they make a tournament, even the NIT would be a start.  Buzz did leave the program a mess that is
for sure.

Kindly take your rant and start your own thread. Thank you.

[Herman Cain]

Ok, since I am one of the haters, let me figure out what he has done in recruiting so far.  First off, you can look at recruiting in many ways.  Henry Ellenson is an A for
one year, Cheatham is a solid B plus,  Carter a B minus, and Heldt and Anim are incompletes or non-factors the first year.  The class that was ranked in the Top 10 is
over, did they get to any tournament?  No.  2nd year (not counting the first year)   Hauser a nice recruit and so is Howard, Rowsey we will see.  Bailey can not count as
at best he is 50/50 showing up.  Howard, Bailey and Reinhardt are Stan Johnson kids from his past, Wojo gets an A for signing SJ.  This years upcoming team will have
a hard time getting into the tournament again.  Hope I am wrong.  The following year he will lose three solid players and just Matt Heldt coming back.  I will have a change of heart about his recruiting in 2017 if he lands some inside talent.  He has showed his hand trying to recruit many top 100 kids, lets see what happens.  In
my mind the jury is still out.  If you think I am a hater, fine, facts are brutal.  The fact is you do not recruit or sign every player but with playing time at the 4, I would
hope he would have found someone.  He new there was a chance Henry was leaving even after he signed him, had a whole year and could not find anybody.  Lets see how the year plays out with small ball, as a hater I still hope they make a tournament, even the NIT would be a start.  Buzz did leave the program a mess that is
for sure.

I am no fan of Wojo,but to say he is not a good recruiter is very far from the truth. Lets start from the beginning.

He convinced every single kid to stay on the team.  Second he was able to sign Sandy. Third, he wisely saw that Nick N was a train wreck and was able to disengage with Philip Flory early enough for him to find another home . Fourth He recruited Gabe Levin in head to head competition with Notre Dame and Northwestern. Fifth he put together an excellent 5 man recruiting class. Henry is now going to the NBA and Haanif will be one of our leading all time scorers if he stays all 4 years. Carter was a good value pickup and Matt and Sacar are going to to continue to progress and be competitive players for us.Sixth He also picked up Rowsey who scored over a 1000 points in college all ready. Seventh He picked up Reinhardt from USC who averaged double digits in scoring. Eighth His second year class is excellent with Hauser and Howard headlining it and he has Bailey stockpiled after the mission when he will come back a stronger more mature kid.

 

There is no question Wojo can recruit and we are in the mix on a whole bunch of quality recruits in 2017. It is the game coaching in which Wojo needs to keep improving.

Also I disagree with the notion that Buzz left a dumpster fire. Luke JJJ and Duane are all quality players who put real production on the board.

[rocket surgeon]

The question was how accurate is Mark Miller with his predictions. Some pointed to him predicting Young to MU as proof he is not accurate. I am assuming he makes his predictions based on inside information. Perhaps talking with MU's staff, contacting recruits, their parents or in the case of State of Wisconsin players talking with their high school coaches. It could be he is just making his predictions out of thin air, but I believe he actually knows more than the average poster here. It is obvious he ended up wrong on his prediction on Young, but the real question to me is why he was wrong. I suspect when he made his prediction it was what was really expected to happen. Why it change is debatable. I certainly can argue that Wojo lost a recruit that he had. I am basing this assumption on the fact that he actually cut a player to make room for the next recruit that he did not get. You are free to argue that Miller has no idea what he is doing. Maybe it is somewhere between those two. Going back to Miller predicting Ike to MU, which started this whole thing, I believe Miller is making it with good reasons. Of course something can change, but based on what is known now by Miller the crystal ball is a good indication.

and your predictions were.......?   why don't you just sit back and appreciate the input of a few who have demonstrated time and again that they know more than you, or is that the real issue you have with them?

[Jay Bee]

Not exactly. But not totally incorrect, either.

With Marquette recruits, I went 3 of 4 in 2016 (Hauser, Bailey, Howard in and Young was the miss), 5 of 5 in 2015 (Carter, Anim, Cheatham, Ellenson, Heldt) and 1 of 1 in 2014 (Cohen. I had also correctly predicted Amhed Hill and Marial Shayok before Buzz left).

"Dumb people take it to mean something it doesn't" is kind of a harsh statement. There are most definitely times it means little, but other times it means much more.

Bottom line is it's a fun thing to follow, even if it isn't always accurate.

First, on the bottom line - agreed, it's in FUN. Some people enjoy it. That's great. For those who take something that is in fun and make it into something more, that's unfortunate.

My comments on the cristal bowel don't have to do with you - I'm far more interested in your takes and thoughts (but perhaps not your 'picks' unless I understand the background for the reasoning behind it) than I am of most others who make picks on that website.

You can easily see folks changing their picks based on widely known information. That is mostly what it is. It's not some great source for uniquely informed information. Without a "I changed or made a pick because of ___ and ___", a person taking a changed or initialized pick for more than a guy following widespread public knowledge or making a guess based on nothing is problematic.

Is it fun? Sure, marketing is fun. Lots of minds gravitate toward fun.

Is it intelligent? Mostly no.

Without the backstory on the reason for the picks, it's stupid to get excited over the cristal bowel picks... unless you're just having 'fun' and not interested in reality or analysis.

I think it's excellent marketing by that website, and it's excellent marketing for those who make picks on it.

For readers who are idiots, it's a disservice.

For me, it's annoying to see idiots post about it.

[MuMark]

So if somebody posts that Mark Miller picked MU for recruit X in CB they are an idiot?

You really need to get over yourself.

These boards are for sharing information. Mark is the foremost expert in MU recruiting. If he makes a pick I think most would want to know about it since his track record with MU recruits is very good.

If you don't like it then ignore the posts.

Contrary to your opinion I don't think most people take it as gospel.

I certainly don't

[forgetful]

First, on the bottom line - agreed, it's in FUN. Some people enjoy it. That's great. For those who take something that is in fun and make it into something more, that's unfortunate.

Shouldn't we say the same thing about all recruiting sites and rankings then?  That its just for fun, and those that look more into it in regards to player expectations are just dumb, that it is then unfortunate. 

All these sites have people that are experts, informing the fans on player ability or leanings based on their informed situation.  Some are more informed and better than others.  It is the fans job to use that information wisely.

Mark Miller, is one of the most informed people, so we weigh his opinion strongly. 

What did the crystal ball do to you that you hate it so much?

[naginiF]

If you don't like it then ignore the posts.

Contrary to your opinion I don't think most people take it as gospel.

I certainly don't

Whoa!  So 'projection' has another meaning?  I thought it was a guarantee.  Next thing you'll tell me is that my local weatherman's 'forecast' or the next business 'prospectus' I get isn't a guarantee. 

[Jay Bee]

So if somebody posts that Mark Miller picked MU for recruit X in CB they are an idiot?

Yes, they are.

[Jay Bee]

Shouldn't we say the same thing about all recruiting sites and rankings then?  That its just for fun, and those that look more into it in regards to player expectations are just dumb, that it is then unfortunate. 

No.

You're a stupid idiot.

Ask Mark.

On average, are his cristal bowel picks similarly vetted and reasoned to the same degree his rankings are?

Of course not. 

Get real, bud.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Mark Miller is as close to MU recruiting as any outsider.  Wojo relied on his ratings from the get go. To insinuate otherwise is off base completely. Mark is being humble in this thread.  Young flipped flopped because Bentil moved up.  EOS

[bilsu]

and your predictions were.......?   why don't you just sit back and appreciate the input of a few who have demonstrated time and again that they know more than you, or is that the real issue you have with them?

I do not kinow why some of you guys get so upset with this stuff. All I was commneting on is my belief Mark Miller is making educated picks, while some posters were saying he was just guessing. In his own response he basically said that both sides were true. Sometimes he is going with his gut and other times he has information to support his prediction. The only other thing I commented on I believe is factual. Wojo cut Wally and fully expected he had someone to fill that spot, which meant he either misjudged the situation in the first place or lost a recruit he was expected to get. I went with Young, because this started out that Miller picked Young to MU. Maybe it was the player that opted for Maryland. Either way Wojo was out recruited for both players. Now that is not necessarily a cut on Wojo, because every coach gets out recruited. No one gets every recruit they want.

[bilsu]

Ok, since I am one of the haters, let me figure out what he has done in recruiting so far.  First off, you can look at recruiting in many ways.  Henry Ellenson is an A for
one year, Cheatham is a solid B plus,  Carter a B minus, and Heldt and Anim are incompletes or non-factors the first year.  The class that was ranked in the Top 10 is
over, did they get to any tournament?  No.  2nd year (not counting the first year)   Hauser a nice recruit and so is Howard, Rowsey we will see.  Bailey can not count as
at best he is 50/50 showing up.  Howard, Bailey and Reinhardt are Stan Johnson kids from his past, Wojo gets an A for signing SJ.  This years upcoming team will have
a hard time getting into the tournament again.  Hope I am wrong.  The following year he will lose three solid players and just Matt Heldt coming back.  I will have a change of heart about his recruiting in 2017 if he lands some inside talent.  He has showed his hand trying to recruit many top 100 kids, lets see what happens.  In
my mind the jury is still out.  If you think I am a hater, fine, facts are brutal.  The fact is you do not recruit or sign every player but with playing time at the 4, I would
hope he would have found someone.  He new there was a chance Henry was leaving even after he signed him, had a whole year and could not find anybody.  Lets see how the year plays out with small ball, as a hater I still hope they make a tournament, even the NIT would be a start.  Buzz did leave the program a mess that is
for sure.

I would rate Haanif an A+. Everyone in the country knew Ellenson was a stud and sure Wojo should get praise for recruiting him. However, Haanif was considered to be the 4th best small forward in Florida. I think Wojo deserves much more credit for seeing what he was and getting a player from Florida to come to MU, than getting a player from Wisconsin to come to MU. It is great to get a McDonalds all-american, but unless you are  a blue blood who can replace the one & done with another one it really does not do much to help the program in the long run. I also think Carter had a very good freshmen year playing the toughest position in college basketball. Anim to me is a real wild card. He could spend four years at MU and never play a lot, but I am guessing after this year he starts seeing significant playing time. You can argue this, if you want, but I think Wojo should redshirt Anim this year. I think with his attitude he has a chance to be a really good player and barring injuries he is not needed this year.

[wadesworld]

The question was how accurate is Mark Miller with his predictions. Some pointed to him predicting Young to MU as proof he is not accurate. I am assuming he makes his predictions based on inside information. Perhaps talking with MU's staff, contacting recruits, their parents or in the case of State of Wisconsin players talking with their high school coaches. It could be he is just making his predictions out of thin air, but I believe he actually knows more than the average poster here. It is obvious he ended up wrong on his prediction on Young, but the real question to me is why he was wrong. I suspect when he made his prediction it was what was really expected to happen. Why it change is debatable. I certainly can argue that Wojo lost a recruit that he had. I am basing this assumption on the fact that he actually cut a player to make room for the next recruit that he did not get. You are free to argue that Miller has no idea what he is doing. Maybe it is somewhere between those two. Going back to Miller predicting Ike to MU, which started this whole thing, I believe Miller is making it with good reasons. Of course something can change, but based on what is known now by Miller the crystal ball is a good indication.

Mark Miller literally just came on Scoop and told you exactly what his predictions are, and you are now going and saying that his predictions are not what he came on here and said they are?

Okay guy.

[wadesworld]

First, on the bottom line - agreed, it's in FUN. Some people enjoy it. That's great. For those who take something that is in fun and make it into something more, that's unfortunate.

My comments on the cristal bowel don't have to do with you - I'm far more interested in your takes and thoughts (but perhaps not your 'picks' unless I understand the background for the reasoning behind it) than I am of most others who make picks on that website.

You can easily see folks changing their picks based on widely known information. That is mostly what it is. It's not some great source for uniquely informed information. Without a "I changed or made a pick because of ___ and ___", a person taking a changed or initialized pick for more than a guy following widespread public knowledge or making a guess based on nothing is problematic.

Is it fun? Sure, marketing is fun. Lots of minds gravitate toward fun.

Is it intelligent? Mostly no.

Without the backstory on the reason for the picks, it's stupid to get excited over the cristal bowel picks... unless you're just having 'fun' and not interested in reality or analysis.

I think it's excellent marketing by that website, and it's excellent marketing for those who make picks on it.

For readers who are idiots, it's a disservice.

For me, it's annoying to see idiots post about it.

We know.