Recruiting as of 5/15/24

[Cheeks]

Well then, that settles it...unless the kid is in state and doesn't want to leave home, MU will NEVER land an out of state elite recruit. That's up to Wojo to make that happen, to change the perception of MU to sell them on his vision, so that it is possible. Without those types of recruits every once in awhile, MU will NEVER reach the upper levels of college basketball consistently...that's just the reality of it.

His job is to make MU competitive, stay out of trouble off the court, etc.  Is Mark Few's job to win games at Gonzaga or recruit top 50 kids?  He's done a lot of winning without the top 50 kids.  If you're a top 50 kid not from the midwest, the chance of coming to a small Catholic urban school with the winters......super small.  This isn't the 60's or 70's anymore. TV and every game being broadcast has neutralized so much.

I'll ask again, is Gonzaga at the upper level of college basketball consistently?  They've had ONE top 50 player in the last 8 years.  ONE.  In fact, most of their recruits in that time period were outside of the top 100.  There are many ways to skin the cat. 

[MU82]

Is Markus "elite"?

Was Wade "elite"?

Was Wes "elite"?

Was Crowder "elite"?

Was Diener "elite"?

Was Butler "elite"?

Silliness.

Identify a couple of top-25s you think you have a legit chance at and go for them with gusto. Otherwise, go after 25-100, many of which have been landed by Wojo, Buzz and Crean, as well as good players who hopefully can be coached up to be great.

The all-of-the-above approach.

guru ... nowhere to be found in the threads about us kicking the arses of ranked teams, but here to kvetch about our recruiting, which has been darn good.

[TedBaxter]

Some people will only be satisfied with the kind of success Al McGuire had from 1969-77.  That's an awful high target to achieve and it's great to strive for, but...…..

Marquette is 10-2 and is in the top 20 in nearly every poll.  Won a game over a top 15 team with only 1 senior playing 17 minutes.  Still have a high ceiling to improve and are playing like a veteran team. 

Kind of a sad deal for me is Henry Ellenson.  Top 25 player who played 1 year with Marquette and didn't make the tournament.  Yes, he was drafted in the first round and yet, he has only played in 59 games in 2 plus years with the Pistons.  They have already told Henry they will not retain him after this year.  Will another NBA team have interest in signing him or will he spend the rest of his years in the NBA's minor leagues or in Europe?  He's still only 22 years old, but his 1 college year may be his post high school basketball highlight. 

[Cheeks]

Some people will only be satisfied with the kind of success Al McGuire had from 1969-77.  That's an awful high target to achieve and it's great to strive for, but...…..

Marquette is 10-2 and is in the top 20 in nearly every poll.  Won a game over a top 15 team with only 1 senior playing 17 minutes.  Still have a high ceiling to improve and are playing like a veteran team. 

Kind of a sad deal for me is Henry Ellenson.  Top 25 player who played 1 year with Marquette and didn't make the tournament.  Yes, he was drafted in the first round and yet, he has only played in 59 games in 2 plus years with the Pistons.  They have already told Henry they will not retain him after this year.  Will another NBA team have interest in signing him or will he spend the rest of his years in the NBA's minor leagues or in Europe?  He's still only 22 years old, but his 1 college year may be his post high school basketball highlight.

Really had no choice.  That draft class was awful, the one after was very good.  The carnage from that class is deep.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefffeld/2018/11/28/after-just-two-years-teams-have-opted-for-price-over-potential-for-the-2016-nba-draft-class/#78dba15b442e

[NorthernDancerColt]

Is Markus "elite"?

Was Wade "elite"?

Was Wes "elite"?

Was Crowder "elite"?

Was Diener "elite"?

Was Butler "elite"?

Silliness.

Identify a couple of top-25s you think you have a legit chance at and go for them with gusto. Otherwise, go after 25-100, many of which have been landed by Wojo, Buzz and Crean, as well as good players who hopefully can be coached up to be great.

The all-of-the-above approach.

guru ... nowhere to be found in the threads about us kicking the arses of ranked teams, but here to kvetch about our recruiting, which has been darn good.

Post of the Day.

Brian Kelly at ND has assembled a hell of a team at hated ND with barely a top 15 kid in sight, and that’s football for chrissakes. It’s been brought up over and over how much easier (than football) it is to piece together a near-elite hoops squad with the right recruiting philosophy not involving cream-of-the-crop recruits.....see Nova. Whenever Jay departs a bit from his m.o. and goes for top15 talent, there have been issues. We’ll do just fine without the Grimes of the world. I love our chemistry and our devotion to team concepts. I’ll take the kid ranked 75th (who is ticked that he is being ignored by the ranking services) every single day over the full-of-himself hot-shot ranked #10. Think about how MJ used to always feel slighted,and used it as fuel. There are instances of him even making up slights against himself to gain an edge. Now imagine having a real chip due to being just outside somebody’s top 25 or top 50 list.

[GGGG]

Well then, that settles it...unless the kid is in state and doesn't want to leave home, MU will NEVER land an out of state elite recruit. That's up to Wojo to make that happen, to change the perception of MU to sell them on his vision, so that it is possible. Without those types of recruits every once in awhile, MU will NEVER reach the upper levels of college basketball consistently...that's just the reality of it.

Dude life’s too short to worry about this so much.

[muguru]

His job is to make MU competitive, stay out of trouble off the court, etc.  Is Mark Few's job to win games at Gonzaga or recruit top 50 kids?  He's done a lot of winning without the top 50 kids.  If you're a top 50 kid not from the midwest, the chance of coming to a small Catholic urban school with the winters......super small.  This isn't the 60's or 70's anymore. TV and every game being broadcast has neutralized so much.

I'll ask again, is Gonzaga at the upper level of college basketball consistently?  They've had ONE top 50 player in the last 8 years.  ONE.  In fact, most of their recruits in that time period were outside of the top 100.  There are many ways to skin the cat.

How many National Championships have the Zags won under Few??

[muguru]

That's not Wojo's job........(to get elite level recruits.)....his job is to recruit the best players he can that want to play at Marquette and who fit the culture of the school......and then win with those players at a level, that is acceptable to the administration and the majority of the fan base.

By your logic Tony Bennett is a failure......Bo Ryan was a failure.......Mark Few is a failure.....Crean and Buzz were failures.


Bill Self gets lots of elite level recruits.......he is recruiting to a blue blood.....and still had to cheat to do it......ditto for Sean Miller.......

I find mind boggling that MU can be 10-2.....ranked in the top 20 in the country and all,you can do is whine about not having enough "elite level recruits" on the team.....I mean seriously.....beat the team you hate more then any other for the 2nd year in a row.......have a legitimate all American candidate running the show........things are good.......

I feel sorry for you that you can't enjoy success........it's too bad.

Oh don't get me wrong, I LOVE what they are doing thus far this year...but that's the thing..I'm hungry for more. I don't want just top 20..I want top 10. I don't want sweet 16's, I want Final Four's, I don't want to see them lose another game the rest of the year. Yes it's hyperbole, but I think you get the point..they have been very good so far this year, but there can always be more..let's see what the rest of the season brings.

[4th and State]

Post of the Day.

Brian Kelly at ND has assembled a hell of a team at hated ND with barely a top 15 kid in sight, and that’s football for chrissakes. It’s been brought up over and over how much easier (than football) it is to piece together a near-elite hoops squad with the right recruiting philosophy not involving cream-of-the-crop recruits.....see Nova. Whenever Jay departs a bit from his m.o. and goes for top15 talent, there have been issues. We’ll do just fine without the Grimes of the world. I love our chemistry and our devotion to team concepts. I’ll take the kid ranked 75th (who is ticked that he is being ignored by the ranking services) every single day over the full-of-himself hot-shot ranked #10. Think about how MJ used to always feel slighted,and used it as fuel. There are instances of him even making up slights against himself to gain an edge. Now imagine having a real chip due to being just outside somebody’s top 25 or top 50 list.

Villanova has had the success they did because of landing a top 25 recruit, in addition to an already solid group of players.  If they don't have Brunson, they don't win two national titles.

[tower912]

A top 25 recruit who bought in to what they do.  Compare Brunson and Quinerly as freshmen.

[muguru]

Villanova has had the success they did because of landing a top 25 recruit, in addition to an already solid group of players.  If they don't have Brunson, they don't win two national titles.

BINGO!! Post of the entire thread right here...What people don't seem to realize(or care), is that it takes ELITE talent to win a National Championship..You don't need several..as with Brunson demonstrates. Get that one guy..and fit the pieces around him..bottom line is, talent ALWAYS wins out in the end. Not every single time, but I tell ya what, I will take my team of kids ranked top 5-25 and you can have your great chemistry, great fundamental team of kids ranked 80-150, let's roll the ball out and play and see who wins an overwhelming majority of the time. The talent will.

[BM1090]

BINGO!! Post of the entire thread right here...What people don't seem to realize(or care), is that it takes ELITE talent to win a National Championship..You don't need several..as with Brunson demonstrates. Get that one guy..and fit the pieces around him..bottom line is, talent ALWAYS wins out in the end. Not every single time, but I tell ya what, I will take my team of kids ranked top 5-25 and you can have your great chemistry, great fundamental team of kids ranked 80-150, let's roll the ball out and play and see who wins an overwhelming majority of the time. The talent will.

Except that's not what Nova really did. Brunson was a starter as a freshman but he was just a piece. He was a PG that wasn't even playing PG. He was the 5th leading scorer. That team was led by Hart, Arci, Ochefu and Jenkins. Nova won that year because of immense depth, not because of Jalen Brunson.

[Silkk the Shaka]

BINGO!! Post of the entire thread right here...What people don't seem to realize(or care), is that it takes ELITE talent to win a National Championship..You don't need several..as with Brunson demonstrates. Get that one guy..and fit the pieces around him..bottom line is, talent ALWAYS wins out in the end. Not every single time, but I tell ya what, I will take my team of kids ranked top 5-25 and you can have your great chemistry, great fundamental team of kids ranked 80-150, let's roll the ball out and play and see who wins an overwhelming majority of the time. The talent will.

Markus pre-reclassification was rated roughly in line with Brunson, played big minutes on the USA national team like a burger boy, etc. You have what you want my good man. Enjoy it while it's here!

[Jay Bee]

Markus pre-reclassification was rated roughly in line with Brunson, played big minutes on the USA national team like a burger boy, etc. You have what you want my good man. Enjoy it while it's here!

#Truth

The ratings people eff'd up on Markus when he reclassified. I think it was just due to laziness and worry about his age. I said it was stupid on their part back then, and I think the truth has been revealed. We got an elite recruit in Howard.

[Cheeks]

How many National Championships have the Zags won under Few??

Zero.....and that’s just fine.

They were in a national title game a few years ago.  How many NCAA probations have they been under?  Also, with their success under Few would you call them “elite”, and have they become a national brand despite not winning that title?

Add to your list UW-Madison.  They have had a few top 50 kids, but in their run of consecutive tournament berths most of it came without that kind of talent.....somehow they did it without being on the front pages for the wrong reasons, and managed to become one of the better college basketball programs in the nation year in and year out.

[Cheeks]

Oh don't get me wrong, I LOVE what they are doing thus far this year...but that's the thing..I'm hungry for more. I don't want just top 20..I want top 10. I don't want sweet 16's, I want Final Four's, I don't want to see them lose another game the rest of the year. Yes it's hyperbole, but I think you get the point..they have been very good so far this year, but there can always be more..let's see what the rest of the season brings.

You love it?  First time all year you have said it....literally radio silent for weeks when all the “love” was happening.....good to see you back. 

[4th and State]

A top 25 recruit who bought in to what they do.  Compare Brunson and Quinerly as freshmen.

Agreed, it won't always work.  But if we want to take the next step, I think we will need to take calculated gambles on that type of player.

If Wojo stays for 10+ years I see no reason why we can't reach a level similar to Villanova.

[wadesworld]

#Truth

The ratings people eff'd up on Markus when he reclassified. I think it was just do to laziness and worry about his age. I said it was stupid on their part back then, and I think the truth has been revealed. We got an elite recruit in Howard.

Do vs. due vs. dew, ai'na?

[Lennys Tap]

You guys understand that Crean ultimately believed that he might have made a mistake. Even if it was still the right but close call in his mind, you can be certain that he has given Wojo  'the grass isn't always greener' speech.

Crean's reasons for leaving were sound. Given all of IU's resources (including incredible in state talent and blue blood history) he saw a ceiling much higher than Marquette. His analysis was perfect - he just wasn't up to the task. When that became clear, regrets for leaving MU were close behind.

[muguru]

You love it?  First time all year you have said it....literally radio silent for weeks when all the “love” was happening.....good to see you back.

Why comment when they win?? I expect them to do that...ergo, I am not surprised or shocked when they do. You play to win the game.

[Cheeks]

Agreed, it won't always work.  But if we want to take the next step, I think we will need to take calculated gambles on that type of player.

If Wojo stays for 10+ years I see no reason why we can't reach a level similar to Villanova.

Brunson was ranked 22nd, a great player.  DD was ranked in the 120’s, they don’t win last year’s title without him either.  Pieces and parts into the whole.  Has to be about fit.

[Cheeks]

Why comment when they win?? I expect them to do that...ergo, I am not surprised or shocked when they do. You play to win the game.

You said you love what they are doing, do you not tell the people you love that you love them or do you just expect them to know?

[muguru]

Zero.....and that’s just fine.

They were in a national title game a few years ago.  How many NCAA probations have they been under?  Also, with their success under Few would you call them “elite”, and have they become a national brand despite not winning that title?

Add to your list UW-Madison.  They have had a few top 50 kids, but in their run of consecutive tournament berths most of it came without that kind of talent.....somehow they did it without being on the front pages for the wrong reasons, and managed to become one of the better college basketball programs in the nation year in and year out.

This right here typifies "today's" MU fan..Small time thinking. Satisfied with yearly tournament berths...As nice as that is, I for one prefer to think bigger and better. Gonzaga's brand is great, but are they "elite". Again, how many National Championships have they won?? They are a good/great College basketball program on a yearly basis...If that's what you are okay with, that's totally okay. Besides, you should all want to see MU win another Natty, because if they do, I will never be seen or heard from again..That'd be my holy grail..I've been around for one, now I want one more...if I died the next day, so be it..that'd be the perfect way to go.

[Cheeks]

This right here typifies "today's" MU fan..Small time thinking. Satisfied with yearly tournament berths...As nice as that is, I for one prefer to think bigger and better. Gonzaga's brand is great, but are they "elite". Again, how many National Championships have they won?? They are a good/great College basketball program on a yearly basis...If that's what you are okay with, that's totally okay. Besides, you should all want to see MU win another Natty, because if they do, I will never be seen or heard from again..That'd be my holy grail..I've been around for one, now I want one more...if I died the next day, so be it..that'd be the perfect way to go.

Absolutely disagree.  The tournament is a crapshoot, and you cannot win it if you don’t get there.  The first goal is to get there, and to get there repeatedly, consistently. 

Forgive me for wanting to be good and not wanting the sleeze factor that goes with it.  I would rather take Gonzaga or UW-Madison’s approach every day of the week and twice on Sundays for a number of reasons.

Sustainability
Realistic expectations of success including an occasional very deep run
Limitations of bad ethical behavior

Every damn day I prefer that choice and it is why the programs that go that approach usually (not always) don’t have the stain that goes with it.  You call that small minded?  I call it THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT

[muguru]

Brunson was ranked 22nd, a great player.  DD was ranked in the 120’s, they don’t win last year’s title without him either.  Pieces and parts into the whole.  Has to be about fit.

You are exactly right...without DD they don't win that title most likely..however, without Brunson(an elite talent), DD never gets to show his wares on the big stage like that. The pieces all have to fit, no question about it, but 4th and State is right, if MU ever wants to take the next step, at some point they have to land a "Brunson". You don't need a team full of them(I never said that), but imagine what this years MU team would be with a "Brunson" type added to Sam, Joey and Markus. Holy Toledo, they'd be unstoppable.