Recruiting as of 3/15/24

[GoldenWarrior11]

Not sure what I'm more surprised by.  The fact we made the final four for Mannion or the fact that we are now back in the conversation with Watts.  Being in the conversation for some of the top players in the country can be viewed as nothing but as positive for the program and the coaching staff.  It's one thing to throw darts against the board and offer everyone.  It's a completely different game to have these top players actually envision playing at Marquette for the staff and with the team enough to be in a select grouping of top national programs.   

Wojo, Johnson, Nelson and Killings are all doing an outstanding job recruiting.  It's only a matter of time until one of these top players decides to come here.

[GGGG]

Where I disagree, brother TAMU, is that IMO there are ancillary benefits to being a finalist for the top players that are positives for a program even when you don't land the big fish. It's good publicity to be in the "final four" with Nova, Duke and Kentucky or the final 3 with Michigan and MSU for a blue chipper.

Bullsh*t.  It doesn't make a damn bit of difference.  What "publicity" do you gain???  Non blue-chip schools are listed with blue-chip recruits regularly.  No one remembers them because it isn't worthy of remembering.

If Mannion isn't coming here, it would be FAR better to have him eliminate us earlier.  But it is awesome that we are still in the picture.

I know it's not a perfect analogy, but has anyone ever said "Good news! We got knocked out in the Sweet 16. We weren't going to win it all anyway, now we won't waste all those resources going to the Final Four"? My point is that success "advancing" in the battle for top recruits is success, getting cut early is not. We have plenty of resources, enough that we don't have to celebrate or "spin" bad news.

Not only is it not a perfect analogy, it is a mind blowingly bad one.

No one is "spinning" bad news here.  It is about allocation of a limited amount of resources. 

[Lennys Tap]

Bullsh*t.  It doesn't make a damn bit of difference.  What "publicity" do you gain???  Non blue-chip schools are listed with blue-chip recruits regularly.  No one remembers them because it isn't worthy of remembering.

If Mannion isn't coming here, it would be FAR better to have him eliminate us earlier.  But it is awesome that we are still in the picture.



Not only is it not a perfect analogy, it is a mind blowingly bad one.

No one is "spinning" bad news here.  It is about allocation of a limited amount of resources.

Bullsh*t. Mind blowingly ignorant. Anyone who doesn't see value in being a finalist for the top talent with the blue bloods is hopeless. We have plenty of resources to pursue players even if (God forbid) make the final list of some good players but don't land them. Keep spinning.

[GGGG]

Bullsh*t. Mind glowingly ignorant. Anyone who doesn't see value in being a finalist for the top talent with the blue bloods is hopeless.

Really?  What value does it bring?

[Its DJOver]

Not trying to get into the middle of a good old pissing match, but how much cred did we get in the late 2000s for being a runner up for Shumpert? Was that ever mentioned again other than comparing near misses?

[Lennys Tap]

Really?  What value does it bring?

Know anyone who consistently is in the mix for the top talent who doesn't get some? Me neither. Being legit in the eyes of the top talent reaps benefits.

[GGGG]

Know anyone who consistently is in the mix for the top talent who doesn't get some? Me neither. Being legit in the eyes of the top talent reaps benefits.

LOL.  You just made a different argument.  You specifically sated earlier: "It's good publicity to be in the "final four" with Nova, Duke and Kentucky or the final 3 with Michigan and MSU for a blue chipper."

Again, what "publicity" does it bring and what value does it provide?

[Lennys Tap]

LOL.  You just made a different argument.  You specifically sated earlier: "It's good publicity to be in the "final four" with Nova, Duke and Kentucky or the final 3 with Michigan and MSU for a blue chipper."

Again, what "publicity" does it bring and what value does it provide?

It's all over social media (recruiting sites, Twitter, etc). These top recruits read about themselves and other blue chippers - and talk to one another, too.

[GGGG]

It's all over social media (recruiting sites, Twitter, etc). These top recruits read about themselves and other blue chippers - and talk to one another, too.

So you think because Nico Mannion listed us in his final four, that it causes other blue chippers to talk about Marquette more?

[wadesworld]

I don’t agree that it’s a good thing to be eliminated from a recruit’s list early, but it is not even remotely debatable that making a blue chip recruit’s “final list” is “good publicity for the program” when you lose out on that recruit is a far, far worse take. That’s laughable.

The only benefit of making a blue chip recruit’s final list is that you continue to have a chance to land a stud.

I’d put a lot of money down on not a single blue chip recruit ever became interested in a program because a different blue chipper that wound up at Duke or Kansas had that program on his “final list” before choosing elsewhere.

[panda]

Being in the final four doesn’t really give us any added notoriety. Being in the running for top recruits means we’re making inroads with top AAU programs which is the main point I think some are missing.

[Lennys Tap]

So you think because Nico Mannion listed us in his final four, that it causes other blue chippers to talk about Marquette more?

Of course. Any discussion about Mannion (and these kids talk to and about one another) includes Marquette. That's a good thing. I'd love to be a finalist for other 5* and high 4* recruits and have no doubt Wojo would also.

[GGGG]

Of course. Any discussion about Mannion (and these kids talk to and about one another) includes Marquette. That's a good thing. I'd love to be a finalist for other 5* and high 4* recruits and have no doubt Wojo would also.

No kidding. Because we can get talent.

But if we aren’t getting the guy, it’s better to be out early. The resources you would use to continue to recruit and couldn’t devote elsewhere are much more important than “publicity” you get from being in their final court.

[brewcity77]

Know anyone who consistently is in the mix for the top talent who doesn't get some? Me neither. Being legit in the eyes of the top talent reaps benefits.

I'm curious how being in the running for JP Tokoto, Kevon Looney, Diamond Stone, and Tyler Herro benefitted Wisconsin in long term recruiting.

[Lennys Tap]

But if we aren’t getting the guy, it’s better to be out early. The resources you would use to continue to recruit and couldn’t devote elsewhere are much more important than “publicity” you get from being in their final court.

Respectfully disagree. Even when we make a guy's final list, math (75% with 4 finalists) says we probably aren't getting him. But even if you're "behind" or a long shot, having a chance on a possible program changer is worth (IMO) the resources. If not, why go up against the big boys in the first place?

[Lennys Tap]

I'm curious how being in the running for JP Tokoto, Kevon Looney, Diamond Stone, and Tyler Herro benefitted Wisconsin in long term recruiting.

Home state kids who give State U the curtesy of being a "finalist" with no intention of attending (Looney, Tokoto) don't mean anything. A home state kid who drops State U the minute his stock rises (Herro) doesn't either. The whole Stone thing was odd from the beginning, but of course "Home State U"at least appeared to be in it.

Bottom line, state schools are almost always "finalists" for local talent even when they're not. Can't compare that to an MU being in the running for a guy like Mannion.

[brewcity77]

Home state kids who give State U the curtesy of being a "finalist" with no intention of attending (Looney, Tokoto) don't mean anything. A home state kid who drops State U the minute his stock rises (Herro) doesn't either. The whole Stone thing was odd from the beginning, but of course "Home State U"at least appeared to be in it.

Bottom line, state schools are almost always "finalists" for local talent even when they're not. Can't compare that to an MU being in the running for a guy like Mannion.

That seems kind of arbitrary, especially since UW-Madison fans always make such a big deal of being finalists. So it matters for us but not them?

I get wanting to feel like you're in there, but unless you get the recruit, it really doesn't matter. Did Wake Forest benefit from being on Harry Giles' final list? Did St Louis see a recruiting boost because of a Jayson Tatum visit?

I understand fans wanting to be in there until the end because you can't win if you aren't in the game, but the players that pick your school benefit you and the ones that don't don't. Next year, Jalen Johnson won't be saying "well Mannion visited Marquette, maybe I should just commit."

Both schools of thought make sense. You feel we need to be in there as long as possible to land the recruit. I feel if we won't win, well, like Al said, the second best answer is no. But saying there's some secret ancillary benefit to losing that doesn't apply to state schools but does apply to private schools seems like some serious inventive pretzel logic.

[Goose]

Don’t be surprised if we land Mannion. This we might pull a surprise.

[avid1010]

I wouldn't know...but I would think there could be some value in having blue-chip recruits that typically play for great high school teams and high profile AAU teams speak friendly of MU to their friends and coaches. 

[Lennys Tap]

Both schools of thought make sense. You feel we need to be in there as long as possible to land the recruit. I feel if we won't win, well, like Al said, the second best answer is no. But saying there's some secret ancillary benefit to losing that doesn't apply to state schools but does apply to private schools seems like some serious inventive pretzel logic.

We won't win most of the battles, and for the really good players we'll frequently start as decided underdogs. Maybe we shouldn't recruit them at all, shoot lower - take the Mike Deane approach - but I'm glad Wojo disagrees.

I don't why you can't see the difference between a 5* from far away putting MU on his final list and a local kid giving State U a curtesy (while not really considering them) - seems obvious to me. So does the benefit or lack thereof to the respective programs. 

[Lennys Tap]

I wouldn't know...but I would think there could be some value in having blue-chip recruits that typically play for great high school teams and high profile AAU teams speak friendly of MU to their friends and coaches.

Logical

[onepost]

Don’t be surprised if we land Mannion. This we might pull a surprise.

I too have always had a good feeling about Mannion, couldn't tell you why.
Have you heard anything that gives you some optimism?

[bilsu]

So you think because Nico Mannion listed us in his final four, that it causes other blue chippers to talk about Marquette more?

I tend to agree with you. Being listed and then not getting the recruit is just confirming what top recruits are already thinking. It only changes things, if MU lands a big time recruit. Then other big time recruits may consider MU. Being on a recruits list and not getting him provides no benefit. However, I like that Wojo has set his sights high. The only risk is that we pass up a chance for a good player, while chasing a great player. Assuming we have no transfers it is not critical to use the two scholarships this year, so we should shoot for the stars. We can try to pick up a good transfer or two in the spring, if we have scholarships available. As far as Watts, given he could not remember to put us on his list to start with, we are not likely to get him.

[NorthernDancerColt]

Bullsh*t.  It doesn't make a damn bit of difference.  What "publicity" do you gain???  Non blue-chip schools are listed with blue-chip recruits regularly.  No one remembers them because it isn't worthy of remembering.

If Mannion isn't coming here, it would be FAR better to have him eliminate us earlier.  But it is awesome that we are still in the picture.



Not only is it not a perfect analogy, it is a mind blowingly bad one.


No one is "spinning" bad news here.  It is about allocation of a limited amount of resources.

Yep.
Many times a horse trainer will continually over-place his or her horse in graded stakes races where the animal can't be truly competitive.... in a misguided effort to attain "black-type" for their future sire in the breeding shed and sales catalogues. As such, what good is it to see champions in the company/running lines and past performances if the trainer's nag is always an also-ran?  If you can win these battles, by all means put our name in the entries with JUSTIFY (KY) and GOOD MAGIC (KANSAS)...but don't expect continually running up the track to in any way enhance our stature with future breeders (recruits).

Wojo is spotting his thoroughbreds where they can win. Coach Killings and Coach Stan are "kicking-down-the-barn-door" type high energy guys. Even when they don't land their coveted Grade 1...the Equibase chart comment is almost always: "galloped out full-of-run." ;-)

[1SE]

This is a silly debate, but it’s silly
season. But Sultan is wrong here - look at these kids’ twitter followers - look at who is in their AAU system. Then buy a textbook on network analysis.

The kids from recruiting classes 2 and 3 and 4 years out are watching everything Mannion and other blue chips do. When he posts a pic of himself taking a jumper in a MU jersey, those that look up to him and want to be like him see themselves in that jersey too. Is the impact huge? Probably not, but if it causes a kid to take a look at MU who would otherwise never have considered it you never know. There are dozens of schools going after top kids - anything that opens the door a little certainly helps.