New Addition to the Big East

[MU82]

1.  I find it difficult to believe that any school that doesnt already have football will want to add it.  It costs so much upfront and they would also need to add an additional women's sport.  See:  multiple threads on this site regarding MU adding football.

I live in Charlotte. In about six weeks, UNC-Charlotte's new football team begins play in its new football stadium.

They moved from the A-10 to Conference USA just to play football.

Not saying it would or could happen with VCU. Just saying never say never.

[slingkong]

That wasn't part of the original commercial. It was a joke.

And a good one.

The answer is yes, BW3 would have had to have approval. Well, they wouldn't *have* to but there's no way BW3 was going to put out a commercial without having its ducks in a row first.

[WarriorInNYC]

James Madison, ODU, George Mason. I think it's a bit premature to declare them a clear #3 in that state for just a few good years.

SLU is a better fit, in a better market, with better academics, with better facilities, with a better arena. No, SLU overall history ain't great (they've technically never been to the second weekend, since getting to the Sweet 16 in the 50s was one win) but I'll challenge that VCU is somehow world's better. SLU always has competed in a better conference than VCU until now, so congrats on VCU beating up on a poor CAA and having ONE great run.

Also, if you're argument to add or not add a specific school is based on who their coach is (right now), I just don't know what to say to that kind of short-sighted logic.

And again, I am arguing that SLU is also a better fit than VCU.  Where did I say they should be added because of Shaka? 

[Benny B]

wasn't MU known more for recruiting Chicagoland? I could be wayyy off but I thought that an announcer once in a video said Al recruits guards from Chi and tall guys from NYC or something along those lines. 

Yes, back in the day, that was absolutely correct.  Al was a student of the streets in NYC and that formed the foundation of his entire being, including his coaching/recruiting philosophy.  Such gave birth to the infamous McGuireism, "Cracked Sidewalks."

Though MU has continued to recruit in Chicago post-Al (mainly because of proximity), so does every blue blood... hence the reason that outside of Cordell, Wade, Jerel, and Steve Jr., Chicago hasn't exactly been a hotbed of talent for MU over the past couple decades as one may think.  This gives rhyme to the reason a good portion of us believe the addition Coach Chew was a priority for Buzz: to re-establish MU as a major player in Chicago (amongst his other contributions).

[The omission of Wardle from the preceding list is intentional; granted, he is from the Chicago metro, Clarendon Hills probably has as many cracks in their sidewalks as they have people on the sidewalk doing crack.]

[Aughnanure]

And again, I am arguing that SLU is also a better fit than VCU.  Where did I say they should be added because of Shaka? 

Well I guess I didn't see this: "I still don't think they get added though as you pointed out, they are not a great cultural fit."

I'm just not as enamored with VCU like many here are and think they would be a poor choice if they ever got in over a SLU type program.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

VCU is absolutely the next add to the BEast.

They ARE a cultural fit with the rest of the Big East. They are a strong basketball only school with a decent history of winning, and a talented young coach. That is the culture of the Big East.

To say that VCU shouldn't be included in the Big East because they are a big state school is as big of a fallacy as when people were saying Butler wouldn't be added because they weren't Catholic. Our institutions don't need to match up perfectly, just our commitment to excellence in academics and athletics.

VCU brings so much more to the Big East than SLU ever could (besides the Saint Louis TV market). SLU was pretty good last season, and will be a bubble team this season. But before that? They have been to the tournament 5 times in the last 55 years. That's once every 11 years. By comparison, VCU has been 11 times in the last 33 years...once every three years. Not to mention that one of those appearances came with a final four.

There is also the future to consider. Majereus made SLU relevant game. Crews lived off Majereus' leftovers. The new coach hasn't showed the ability to attract recruits of his own. Whereas Smart is bringing in a four star, two high three stars, and a two star this season, and already has a very high four star commit for 2014, Crews is bringing in a low three star and a couple of two stars.

Don't get me wrong, SLU will be added...but it will be for the Saint Louis TV market...not their success in basketball. They will also only be added if Gonzaga says no or after we decide to expand beyond 12.

[bilsu]

I think being a big state school is irrelevant. VCU may have a different vision, but they have only one vote out of 12(?) schools, so they have very little, if any, influence on the Catholic schools vision for the conference.

[Dawson Rental]

VCU is absolutely the next add to the BEast.

They ARE a cultural fit with the rest of the Big East. They are a strong basketball only school with a decent history of winning, and a talented young coach. That is the culture of the Big East.

To say that VCU shouldn't be included in the Big East because they are a big state school is as big of a fallacy as when people were saying Butler wouldn't be added because they weren't Catholic. Our institutions don't need to match up perfectly, just our commitment to excellence in academics and athletics.

VCU brings so much more to the Big East than SLU ever could (besides the Saint Louis TV market). SLU was pretty good last season, and will be a bubble team this season. But before that? They have been to the tournament 5 times in the last 55 years. That's once every 11 years. By comparison, VCU has been 11 times in the last 33 years...once every three years. Not to mention that one of those appearances came with a final four.

There is also the future to consider. Majereus made SLU relevant game. Crews lived off Majereus' leftovers. The new coach hasn't showed the ability to attract recruits of his own. Whereas Smart is bringing in a four star, two high three stars, and a two star this season, and already has a very high four star commit for 2014, Crews is bringing in a low three star and a couple of two stars.

Don't get me wrong, SLU will be added...but it will be for the Saint Louis TV market...not their success in basketball. They will also only be added if Gonzaga says no or after we decide to expand beyond 12.

Starting a football team and probably following North Carolina Charlotte to CUSA doesn't sound like a cultural fit to The Big East to me.  While no decision has yet been made, VCU's AD said in January that he gets asked about it every day.  Coincidentally, that same AD, McLaughlin, in his first five months on the job took the time to estimate the investment that adding football would take.  While a decision is "far" in the future for VCU, the fact that they're looking at it at all can't be a factor in their favor as a potential Big East member.

[Galway Eagle]

VCU is absolutely the next add to the BEast.

They ARE a cultural fit with the rest of the Big East. They are a strong basketball only school with a decent history of winning, and a talented young coach. That is the culture of the Big East.

To say that VCU shouldn't be included in the Big East because they are a big state school is as big of a fallacy as when people were saying Butler wouldn't be added because they weren't Catholic. Our institutions don't need to match up perfectly, just our commitment to excellence in academics and athletics.

VCU brings so much more to the Big East than SLU ever could (besides the Saint Louis TV market). SLU was pretty good last season, and will be a bubble team this season. But before that? They have been to the tournament 5 times in the last 55 years. That's once every 11 years. By comparison, VCU has been 11 times in the last 33 years...once every three years. Not to mention that one of those appearances came with a final four.

There is also the future to consider. Majereus made SLU relevant game. Crews lived off Majereus' leftovers. The new coach hasn't showed the ability to attract recruits of his own. Whereas Smart is bringing in a four star, two high three stars, and a two star this season, and already has a very high four star commit for 2014, Crews is bringing in a low three star and a couple of two stars.

Don't get me wrong, SLU will be added...but it will be for the Saint Louis TV market...not their success in basketball. They will also only be added if Gonzaga says no or after we decide to expand beyond 12.

In all fairness to SLU it's more like they were good last year and the year before and if they actually make it next year like you believe 3 straight years is a decent.  

Also for the sake of not listening to the "you don't want to go to war... with a ram" song every time that we would play VCU I'd vote against them. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J8ppQBMPT0

[MU82]

VCU is absolutely the next add to the BEast.

They ARE a cultural fit with the rest of the Big East. They are a strong basketball only school with a decent history of winning, and a talented young coach. That is the culture of the Big East.

To say that VCU shouldn't be included in the Big East because they are a big state school is as big of a fallacy as when people were saying Butler wouldn't be added because they weren't Catholic. Our institutions don't need to match up perfectly, just our commitment to excellence in academics and athletics.

VCU brings so much more to the Big East than SLU ever could (besides the Saint Louis TV market). SLU was pretty good last season, and will be a bubble team this season. But before that? They have been to the tournament 5 times in the last 55 years. That's once every 11 years. By comparison, VCU has been 11 times in the last 33 years...once every three years. Not to mention that one of those appearances came with a final four.

There is also the future to consider. Majereus made SLU relevant game. Crews lived off Majereus' leftovers. The new coach hasn't showed the ability to attract recruits of his own. Whereas Smart is bringing in a four star, two high three stars, and a two star this season, and already has a very high four star commit for 2014, Crews is bringing in a low three star and a couple of two stars.

Don't get me wrong, SLU will be added...but it will be for the Saint Louis TV market...not their success in basketball. They will also only be added if Gonzaga says no or after we decide to expand beyond 12.

There's a huge difference between not being Catholic and not being private. A small, non-Catholic private school such as Butler still is right in line with what the league is about. A large state school is not in line. Unless the Big East changes its plan, of course.

As for "a talented young coach," any league that would choose any institution even 1% because of who coaches its basketball team today is a poorly-run hack of a league. Shaka could leave in an instant, just as Stevens did, just as Buzz could, etc. It's a total, total, total non-factor. We are trying to build a league that stands the test of time. Coaches are notorious vagabonds, and that's even more the case for coaches in a "lesser" league (a.k.a. one without football).

[DFW HOYA]

VCU is absolutely the next add to the BEast.

They ARE a cultural fit with the rest of the Big East. They are a strong basketball only school with a decent history of winning, and a talented young coach. That is the culture of the Big East.

Are you kidding me? VCU is a generic commuter school in Richmond. Were it not for Shaka Smart, it would resemble Towson...or UWM.

[keefe]

Are you kidding me? VCU is a generic commuter school in Richmond. Were it not for Shaka Smart, it would resemble Towson...or UWM.

Being from Great Falls my perception of VCU is that it is not even the Commonwealth's equivalent of UWM. It is likely Virginians' 7th choice behind UVA, CWM, VPI, GMU, JMU, and ODU. As an institution it has very little in common with the 10 private universities presently comprising the Big East. We should not wish for VCU to join our club.

[Wisco]

As a current VCU undergraduate student (and perhaps the only Marquette fan on this campus), I'd love for my school to be the next BE addition. I'm not so sure that it will happen in the next few years though. I'd understand the hesitation on the part of the BE in picking up a large research institution (and when I say large, I mean it).

But let me make the case: the athletic dept. just released a long-term strategic plan, outlining their vision for student athlete success and expansion of the Siegel Center (along with fundraising for a new dedicated practice facility). We will have completely new branding implemented just before the season begins. Our student section is better than ever. Everyone is talking about the basketball team on campus (I used to attend games in middle/high school and the enthusiasm was about 1/10th this level at the time). Funding is at an all-time high and the administration is on board 110%. Oh, and Shaka?

http://youtu.be/4J8ppQBMPT0 (a newer chant - I think we'll get them all jumping this season)

Richmond would be a massive mistake. Huge, huge mistake. Yes, the university has nearly unlimited cash flow due to donations. But, the fan base is utterly non-existent. I've been to a few games and it's quite a pathetic sight.

VCU, as both an institution and a basketball school, is on the right track. This university has revived the core of this city and has students genuinely excited for the first time since the 80's. I don't think the BE could go wrong picking us up. If not, Marquette is still (and always will be) my first love.

[GGGG]

As a current VCU undergraduate student (and perhaps the only Marquette fan on this campus), I'd love for my school to be the next BE addition. I'm not so sure that it will happen in the next few years though. I'd understand the hesitation on the part of the BE in picking up a large research institution (and when I say large, I mean it).

But let me make the case: the athletic dept. just released a long-term strategic plan, outlining their vision for student athlete success and expansion of the Siegel Center (along with fundraising for a new dedicated practice facility). We will have completely new branding implemented just before the season begins. Our student section is better than ever. Everyone is talking about the basketball team on campus (I used to attend games in middle/high school and the enthusiasm was about 1/10th this level at the time). Funding is at an all-time high and the administration is on board 110%. Oh, and Shaka?

http://youtu.be/4J8ppQBMPT0 (a newer chant - I think we'll get them all jumping this season)

Richmond would be a massive mistake. Huge, huge mistake. Yes, the university has nearly unlimited cash flow due to donations. But, the fan base is utterly non-existent. I've been to a few games and it's quite a pathetic sight.

VCU, as both an institution and a basketball school, is on the right track. This university has revived the core of this city and has students genuinely excited for the first time since the 80's. I don't think the BE could go wrong picking us up. If not, Marquette is still (and always will be) my first love.

Thanks for the insight.  Is VCU talking about adding football?

[Wisco]

Are you kidding me? VCU is a generic commuter school in Richmond. Were it not for Shaka Smart, it would resemble Towson...or UWM.

Being from Great Falls my perception of VCU is that it is not even the Commonwealth's equivalent of UWM. It is likely Virginians' 7th choice behind UVA, CWM, VPI, GMU, JMU, and ODU. As an institution it has very little in common with the 10 private universities presently comprising the Big East. We should not wish for VCU to join our club.

Not true and not true.

Sure, the "generic commuter" statement would have been accurate 5-10 years ago. But VCU has made enormous strides since that time. Housing capacity has been doubled over the past decade. I believe we have approximately 6,000 beds now. Also, you must understand that the university is located on the edge of a large inner-city residential neighborhood. Thousands of students live within 25 city blocks.

The "7th choice" statement is misleading as well. VCU is considered to be a highly respected choice these days. The engineering and art schools are among the best in the state (in fact, the art program is #1 in the nation). UVA, CWM and VT are the only schools I'd rank higher on the list in regards to desirability (JMU, GMU and ODU are in the same conversation).

If the BE doesn't pick us up due to the public institution factor, than so be it. I can live with that. But this basketball program is tops in the state right now and by a long shot (UVA could challenge that soon, though).

[Wisco]

Thanks for the insight.  Is VCU talking about adding football?

It's similar to the Marquette discussion. Having talked with multiple individuals involved with school administrators, I don't see it happening. People will post on the forums and we'll wear our "undefeated since 19xx" shirts around campus, but the interest level isn't there.

Edit: I would be remiss to not mention this article from the RTD: http://www.timesdispatch.com/sports/college/vcu/vcu-seeks-to-elevate-its-profile-in-five-year-athletic/article_9214d93c-95c8-52f2-8eee-2785dd390c7e.html

"Adding football is not part of the plan."

And from Twitter: "Since you're going to ask, McLaughlin says VCU hasn't been contacted by the Big East or AAC, & effectively dismissed the football question."

Also want to mention our kick-a** pep band: http://youtu.be/Hqu3rWsm_ps

[Aughnanure]

Not true and not true.

Sure, the "generic commuter" statement would have been accurate 5-10 years ago. But VCU has made enormous strides since that time. Housing capacity has been doubled over the past decade. I believe we have approximately 6,000 beds now. Also, you must understand that the university is located on the edge of a large inner-city residential neighborhood. Thousands of students live within 25 city blocks.

The "7th choice" statement is misleading as well. VCU is considered to be a highly respected choice these days. The engineering and art schools are among the best in the state (in fact, the art program is #1 in the nation). UVA, CWM and VT are the only schools I'd rank higher on the list in regards to desirability (JMU, GMU and ODU are in the same conversation).

If the BE doesn't pick us up due to the public institution factor, than so be it. I can live with that. But this basketball program is tops in the state right now and by a long shot (UVA could challenge that soon, though).

Added for emphasis. And it will take only a millisecond for that to be topped.

[Aughnanure]

Richmond would be a massive mistake. Huge, huge mistake. Yes, the university has nearly unlimited cash flow due to donations. But, the fan base is utterly non-existent. I've been to a few games and it's quite a pathetic sight.

Money fixes a lot of things. They're not perfect, but all things being equal I'll take the one with near unlimited resources.

[Wisco]

Money fixes a lot of things. They're not perfect, but all things being equal I'll take the one with near unlimited resources.

Trust me, I agree. But I have interned in their athletic department. It was a complete clusterfu*k to say the least.

Things could have changed since then. Considering the amount of turnover they have had lately, though, I doubt it. Among other things, the recent decisions regarding the soccer and track/field programs didn't go over well at all. All in all, Richmond Spiders basketball is one of the least popular attractions in this city.

[GGGG]

I've come full circle on this.  I don't mind public universities as long as they give some sort of "pledge" not to add football programs.  I think VCU would be a much better choice than Richmond. 

So my vote is for VCU and St. Louis. 

[Aughnanure]

I have interned in their athletic department. It was a complete clusterfu*k to say the least.

Things could have changed since then. Considering the amount of turnover they have had lately, though, I doubt it. Among other things, the recent decisions regarding the soccer and track/field programs didn't go over well at all.

Yeah. Have heard about that. Richmond is a school you take for a number of reasons, but current AD competence isn't exactly one of them. Some short-sighted decisions that I'm sure they would be fixing if invited. If they ever were, I guarantee they will have to make promises in their financial and facility commitment.

Though I also take what rivals say about each other with a grain of salt. VCU ain't as great and "upcoming" as their fans think nor as awful a fit as their detractors say.

Again, money fixes a lot of things and they'll have even more in the Big East.

[Aughnanure]

I've come full circle on this.  I don't mind public universities as long as they give some sort of "pledge" not to add football programs.  I think VCU would be a much better choice than Richmond.  

So my vote is for VCU and St. Louis.  

I will never get excited about the #4/#5 public school in any state. They will always be overshadowed by their bigger, football-playing relatives and it will take 4 seconds for that state to fall in love with the next basketball success story.

This isn't finding UConn in 1979. That was a flagship state school.

Would love to add UMass if they would just back off adding football.

[Galway Eagle]

I will never get excited about the #4/#5 public school in any state. They will always be overshadowed by their bigger, football-playing relatives and it will take 4 seconds for that state to fall in love with the next basketball success story.

This isn't finding UConn in 1979. That was a flagship state school.

Would love to add UMass if they would just back off adding football.

Are you trying to weaken the conference? I mean seriously they haven't made the tournament since 98

[Aughnanure]

Are you trying to weaken the conference? I mean seriously they haven't made the tournament since 98

I'll take a flagship public university from a highly populated northwest state.

Also, it's a fallacy that this conference needs nearly every team to be tourney-bound. We need our doormats just as much.

[GGGG]

I will never get excited about the #4/#5 public school in any state. They will always be overshadowed by their bigger, football-playing relatives and it will take 4 seconds for that state to fall in love with the next basketball success story.

This isn't finding UConn in 1979. That was a flagship state school.

Would love to add UMass if they would just back off adding football.

UMASS just joined the MAC for football.  They aren't dropping it anytime soon.