New Addition to the Big East

[GGGG]

I like Davidson too, but they will. The Atlantic 10 is a much stronger league then the Southern conference. Davidson was literally the only team with an RPI above 200 in their conference last season. Couple that with the fact that most of Davidson's scoring graduated this year...it will be several years before we see the Wildcats back in the tournament.

Well stated.  Ditto with Belmont.  Believe me, I am no fan of Dayton either...would rather take none of them.

[StillAWarrior]

That wasn't part of the original commercial. It was a joke.

Doh!  Hook.  Line.  Sinker.  I'm embarrassed.  I'm not sure I ever saw the commercial without that in it.

[tower912]

So stay where we are.     I am pretty sure that during the process all of these names were tossed out there.     All of them had weaknesses, be it logistics, being a public university, lack of tourney success during the last 20 years.....whatever.   IMO, sit tight for a few years, re-build the Big East brand name and product and see what schools have built themselves to a level that it makes sense to invite them.   The proper fit will reveal itself.  

[Aughnanure]

Gonzaga does not make sense, logistically.  Dayton administration = Depaul administration.    Their fanbase, however, is very good. 

I call BS on this. Gonzaga can work, and work well. Everywhere is 700+ miles for Gonzaga regardless. The logistics are their problem, not the other schools who just have to add one west coast trip a year.

[GGGG]

I call BS on this. Gonzaga can work, and work well. Everywhere is 700+ miles for Gonzaga regardless. The logistics are their problem, not the other schools who just have to add one west coast trip a year.

For basketball...not to mention the other sports.

[tower912]

I call BS on this. Gonzaga can work, and work well. Everywhere is 700+ miles for Gonzaga regardless. The logistics are their problem, not the other schools who just have to add one west coast trip a year.

Call BS all you want.   Having all of the non-revenue producing teams going out there once a year is a budget breaker.    From Gonzaga's standpoint, having your basketball team spend half of the season 2-3 timezones away is far from ideal.   If the league fathers had to be convinced to allow Creighton in, flying DC to Spokane in February couldn't have been popular.    Because on paper, if distance is removed the equation, then Gonzaga is nearly automatic.   The fact that they weren't in the first 10 speaks volumes. 

[Aughnanure]

For basketball...not to mention the other sports.

Cause the soccer, volleyball, tennis, track, etc programs don't already travel outside the midwest? Tennis is already going to Vegas this year. Lacrosse went to Colorado and Jacksonville. Volleyball to Fort Myers.

[Aughnanure]

Call BS all you want.   Having all of the non-revenue producing teams going out there once a year is a budget breaker.    From Gonzaga's standpoint, having your basketball team spend half of the season 2-3 timezones away is far from ideal.   If the league fathers had to be convinced to allow Creighton in, flying DC to Spokane in February couldn't have been popular.    Because on paper, if distance is removed the equation, then Gonzaga is nearly automatic.   The fact that they weren't in the first 10 speaks volumes. 

The league "fathers" had to be convinced about every school. And yes, it's mainly Gonzaga's mainly problem (lack of close games, timezone issues for fans, etc). But can we stop acting like Spokane is in freaking England.

[GGGG]

Cause the soccer, volleyball, tennis, track, etc programs don't already travel outside the midwest? Tennis is already going to Vegas this year. Lacrosse went to Colorado and Jacksonville. Volleyball to Fort Myers.

Volleyball is going to Fort Myers to get three games in two days.  Tennis travels everywhere for multiple matches.  Lacrosse was going everywhere as a new program.

That doesn't mean they should simply add a trip to Spokane in conference.

[Coleman]

The league "fathers" had to be convinced about every school. And yes, it's mainly Gonzaga's mainly problem (lack of close games, timezone issues for fans, etc). But can we stop acting like Spokane is in freaking England.

+1 Gonzaga, can, and will, eventually happen.

It wasn't in the first 10 because there's a lot that logistically needs to go into it to get it figured out. This league was already gonna be up against the clock to get settled by the fall sports season. It added members that were easy to schedule and work out travel plans for.

They can take their time in getting to 12. I fully expect VCU and the Zags will have those 2 spots when all is said and done. I'd bet they do it before the expiration of the current FS1 TV deal to add leverage for the next deal.

The money part is a non-issue. Gonzaga's cut of TV revenue would more than cover for the extended travel, compared to their current TV revenue. Remember, they are already traveling to places like San Diego, Loyola Marymount, BYU, Pepperdine etc. None of their WCC conference games are driving distance, they are taking planes regardless.

And the new TV deal covers the costs of travel for everyone else in the conference as well, compared to the revenue in the old Big East deal with ESPN. They could even add the costs as leverage in the next TV deal.

[Aughnanure]

Volleyball is going to Fort Myers to get three games in two days.  Tennis travels everywhere for multiple matches.  Lacrosse was going everywhere as a new program.

That doesn't mean they should simply add a trip to Spokane in conference.

No, but it means adding a trip to Spokane isn't the budget killer many here act like it is.

[Aughnanure]

+1 Gonzaga, can, and will, eventually happen.

It wasn't in the first 10 because there's a lot that logistically needs to go into it to get it figured out. This league was already gonna be up against the clock to get settled by the fall sports season. It added members that were easy to schedule and work out travel plans for.

They can take their time in getting to 12. I fully expect VCU and the Zags will have those 2 spots when all is said and done. I'd bet they do it before the expiration of the current FS1 TV deal to add leverage for the next deal.

The money part is a non-issue. Gonzaga's cut of TV revenue would more than cover for the extended travel, compared to their current TV revenue. Remember, they are already traveling to places like San Diego, Loyola Marymount, BYU, Pepperdine etc. None of their WCC conference games are driving distance, they are taking planes regardless.

And the new TV deal covers the costs of travel for everyone else in the conference as well, compared to the revenue in the old Big East deal with ESPN. They could even add the costs as leverage in the next TV deal.

Agreed for the most part, but VCU isn't getting in over SLU.

[GGGG]

The money part is a non-issue. Gonzaga's cut of TV revenue would more than cover for the extended travel, compared to their current TV revenue. Remember, they are already traveling to places like San Diego, Loyola Marymount, BYU, Pepperdine etc. None of their conference games are driving distance, they are taking planes regardless.

Their furthest rival in the WCC is San Diego...that is closer than their nearest rival would be in the new BE.  (Creighton).  Every other trip for them would be 1,500+ miles.

I question whether or not Gonzaga would do this simply because of what it does to their student athletes.

[Aughnanure]

Their furthest rival in the WCC is San Diego...that is closer than their nearest rival would be in the new BE.  (Creighton).  Every other trip for them would be 1,500+ miles.

I question whether or not Gonzaga would do this simply because of what it does to their student athletes.

Well Spokane to Milwaukee is 1459 miles (for reference, Milw to Tampa was 1100), but I get it. And yes, I agree with you on that it basically comes down to if Gonzaga wants to/thinks its worth it. The other Big East schools shouldn't be blocking Gonzaga because it makes their student-athletes sit down for an extra hour or hour 1/2 once a year.

[tower912]

DC to London,  3678 miles.   DC to Spokane, 2094 miles.   Good call.   But from Gonzaga's perspective, is it really worth it to have a 3 game road trip over 8 days all in the eastern time zone, paying for all of those hotels, meals and tutors?   The other option is to fly back and forth constantly.   Gonzaga to the Big East may eventually happen.   But to say the distance/logistic issue is BS is simply wrong.    Gonzaga is a perfect fit in every other way.   Please explain why, if not distance, Gonzaga wasn't in the first 10.

[Aughnanure]

DC to London,  3678 miles.   DC to Spokane, 2094 miles.   Good call.   But from Gonzaga's perspective, is it really worth it to have a 3 game road trip over 8 days all in the eastern time zone, paying for all of those hotels, meals and tutors?   The other option is to fly back and forth constantly.   Gonzaga to the Big East may eventually happen.   But to say the distance/logistic issue is BS is simply wrong.    Gonzaga is a perfect fit in every other way.   Please explain why, if not distance, Gonzaga wasn't in the first 10.

No, what I meant was that it is BS that it's an issue of logistics from the current Big East schools' perspective.

What I think they would generally try to do would put most all their east coast road trips on weekends for thurs/fri and sat/sun games (hit Providence and St. John's; Seton Hall and Villanova). Plus, if they go to 12 (say, with SLU) then we would go to divisions. So Gonzaga would only have to fly to the east coast for 3 road games a year. The rest would be in the Midwest and Plains.

I bet Gonzaga wasn't in because there was hesitation, and a desire to lock down a solid 10 first and not split into divisions. Its a very big change for Gonzaga to consider in just, what, 3 months? They haven't gone to 12 though without Gonzaga yet. it would be nice if there was a travel partner for them, but their closest one is like 400 or 500 miles away regardless. They'll always be on an odd island.

[GGGG]

Why are you assuming that the BE would split into divisions?  The only other conferences that have divisions for basketball are the MAC and the Big South.  All of the major conferences have dropped them.

And why should Gonzaga get preferential treatment for their travel?  MU has flown out to the east coast multiple times in a week.  Why should the Zags get the weekends for their east coast games?

[Aughnanure]

Why are you assuming that the BE would split into divisions?  The only other conferences that have divisions for basketball are the MAC and the Big South.  All of the major conferences have dropped them.

And why should Gonzaga get preferential treatment for their travel?  MU has flown out to the east coast multiple times in a week.  Why should the Zags get the weekends for their east coast games?

Well its more because we would be going to 12 teams and couldn't play everyone twice. I guess you could create a rolling schedule, but I think you'd want to make sure there are home and home's with select rivalries (DePaul-Marq, Xavier-BU, Villanova-GTown), and the easiest way to do that would be divisions guaranteeing home and home's with at least 5 schools and probably one other cross-division rival (assuming we want an 18 game schedule vs a 16 game one).

On the weekends, it would really only be one cause they would combine say a Georgetown and SJU/Villanova. So I guess then one more during the week (though if we're going to an 18-game schedule, there'd probably be one more game). I think some of those teams would enjoy a Fri/Sat night game against the Zags. Could always do Mondays for a long weekend too.

And on the divisions, I've personally always been a fan of divisions. But its a farce to say divisions don;t exist simply cause they don''t show up in the standings. Grew up on Big XII, and though they didn't do divisions, their schedules did. I hate doing division scheduling and not then making the standings divisional, but its a small gripe.

[Coleman]

"Divisions" would also allow the conference to structure the schedule so Gonzaga isn't flying to DC and New York every year.

Put Gonzaga in a division with MU, Creighton, DePaul, Xavier, Butler. They are all a home and home. Have a rolling home and home, with 2 teams you only play once in the other division.

I say "divisions" because you dont necessarily have to structure the standings that way. But you can schedule it that way.

Again, they weren't in the first 10 because this will take a little bit of time to figure out. Its been a mad dash over the last year to just get the conference up and running. But it will happen in the next 5 years.

[GGGG]

Well its more because we would be going to 12 teams and couldn't play everyone twice. I guess you could create a rolling schedule, but I think you'd want to make sure there are home and home's with select rivalries (DePaul-Marq, Xavier-BU, Villanova-GTown), and the easiest way to do that would be divisions guaranteeing home and home's with at least 5 schools and probably one other cross-division rival (assuming we want an 18 game schedule vs a 16 game one).

On the weekends, it would really only be one cause they would combine say a Georgetown and SJU/Villanova. So I guess then one more during the week (though if we're going to an 18-game schedule, there'd probably be one more game). I think some of those teams would enjoy a Fri/Sat night game against the Zags. Could always do Mondays for a long weekend too.

I've personally always been a fan of divisions. Grew up on Big XII, and though they didn't do divisions, their schedules did. I hate doing division scheduling and not then making the standings divisional, but its a small gripe.

I just don't think you will see divisions.  The BE didn't use them before.

But again with Gonzaga.  Why should they get the preferential treatment of an east coast trip where they can get two games with one shot?  If the schedule requires them to fly back and forth like everyone else, then they should do so.

The only way they can do this is if they have the "travel partner" concept like the P12 uses.  But I don't think that works real well for television.  (And yes, I know they aren't really travelling together...)

[GGGG]

Put Gonzaga in a division with MU, Creighton, DePaul, Xavier, Butler. They are all a home and home. Have a rolling home and home with 2 teams you only play once in the other division.

I would hate that as a Marquette fan.  I would rather have two games against the east coast schools...and I think the administration would too.

[Coleman]

I would hate that as a Marquette fan.  I would rather have two games against the east coast schools...and I think the administration would too.

You are still playing home and home against 4 of these 6 schools every year: St. Johns, Seton Hall, Villanova, Georgetown, Providence and VCU. You play 2 of them once.

And in return you get Gonzaga and VCU to the confernece, the revenue that would be added by that. 2 more NCAA teams (almost) every year. 2-3 more games against ranked opponents. But you'd rather play one more game against Seton Hall, Providence or St. Johns?

[Aughnanure]

I would hate that as a Marquette fan.  I would rather have two games against the east coast schools...and I think the administration would too.

To play Devil's Advocate, what if we were guaranteed a "cross-division rival" home and home with Georgetown every year in and one other random cross-division  home and home?

We would most likely become Gonzaga's main rivalry, which I think would be a bonus. Plus, I always like the debate that's naturally created over which division is better.

West: Marquette, Gonzaga, Creighton, DePaul, SLU, Butler
OR
East: Georgetown, Villanova, Xavier, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall

[Coleman]

To play Devil's Advocate, what if we were guaranteed a "cross-division rival" home and home with Georgetown every year in and one other random cross-division  home and home?

We would most likely become Gonzaga's main rivalry, which I think would be a bonus. Plus, I always like the debate that's naturally created over which division is better.

West: Marquette, Gonzaga, Creighton, DePaul, SLU, Butler
OR
East: Georgetown, Villanova, Xavier, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall

I'd say West would be better more years than not.

[Aughnanure]

You are still playing home and home against 4 of these 6 schools every year: St. Johns, Seton Hall, Villanova, Georgetown, Providence and VCU. You play 2 of them once.

No, you play your division twice (10 games). Every team in the other division at least once (6 games). And two other cross-division teams twice (2 games) for a total of 18 games.