New Addition to the Big East

[Dawson Rental]

"Divisions" would also allow the conference to structure the schedule so Gonzaga isn't flying to DC and New York every year.

Put Gonzaga in a division with MU, Creighton, DePaul, Xavier, Butler. They are all a home and home. Have a rolling home and home, with 2 teams you only play once in the other division.

I say "divisions" because you dont necessarily have to structure the standings that way. But you can schedule it that way.

Again, they weren't in the first 10 because this will take a little bit of time to figure out. Its been a mad dash over the last year to just get the conference up and running. But it will happen in the next 5 years.

Posts like this make sense when one considers that you are a blurry, fuzzy blue blob named after a character in "Animal House" who saw "seven years of college go down the drain".

/As the immortal John Blutarsky himself said after he took a folksinger's guitar and smashed it against the wall during a toga party; "Sorry."

[Coleman]

No, you play your division twice (10 games). Every team in the other division at least once (6 games). And two other cross-division teams twice (2 games) for a total of 18 games.

You're right. I had it mixed up the other way. Maths

[Jet915]

I think eventually we will move to like 14 teams.  The BCS leagues are mostly already there except the Big XII and we are gonna need more markets and more NCAA participants in order to stay relevant.  I think that means we need to add Gonzaga and SLU to get to 12.  Then maybe Richmond and Dayton to appease the east coast schools.  Don't have to split to divisions, just make it so the "western" teams play H/H every year and split with the "eastern" teams for all sports.

[MU82]

Their furthest rival in the WCC is San Diego...that is closer than their nearest rival would be in the new BE.  (Creighton).  Every other trip for them would be 1,500+ miles.

I question whether or not Gonzaga would do this simply because of what it does to their student athletes.

This one made me laugh out loud. Since when does a school care about its student-athletes? Have you seen Gonzaga's non-conference schedule the last decade? They fly all over the place, one time zone to the next. They should call them the Zig-Zags.

Conference tourneys ... NCAA early rounds ... Round of 16/8 ... for the top schools, the NCAA has student-athletes traveling the entire month of March. Heck, the same thing happens even for crappy teams that play in the NIT and the bajillion other postseason tournaments.

Caring about the student-athletes, a.k.a. indentured servants. That's a good one.

[GGGG]

This one made me laugh out loud. Since when does a school care about its student-athletes? Have you seen Gonzaga's non-conference schedule the last decade? They fly all over the place, one time zone to the next. They should call them the Zig-Zags.

Conference tourneys ... NCAA early rounds ... Round of 16/8 ... for the top schools, the NCAA has student-athletes traveling the entire month of March. Heck, the same thing happens even for crappy teams that play in the NIT and the bajillion other postseason tournaments.

Caring about the student-athletes, a.k.a. indentured servants. That's a good one.

It might be time for keefe to chime in here because he will tell you that you are wrong...that these types of discussions have been addressed by their administration previously.

[Galway Eagle]

St. Louis, St. Joseph's and VCU beg to differ.

Sure Xavier and Temple accounted for 19 of the roughly 26 Regular or Tournament A-10 champions since 2000 (I say roughly because I'm sure there were occasional ties during the regular season) but sure go ahead and claim that St. Louis and St Joseph's are flagship programs by the way those two teams combine for 7 ncaa tournament appearances and you claim that their flagship programs for a conference? I find that laughable.  (VCU hasn't been their long enough)

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Regarding Gonzaga:

What I would like to see is Gonzaga added as a basketball only member. This way you eliminate the cost of sending the non-revenue sports (golf, track, tennis, etc) to Spokane for conference matches. Let the Zags keep their other sports in the WCC....its not like the WCC is in a position to refuse them.

In exchange, I would be willing to give them an equall slice of the pie despite them being basketball only. This should make up for the cost of sending their basketball teams to the east coast. Smart scheduling can minimize the strain on their student athletes. They would make significantly more money than they do now, and we would get the most dominate mid major in college basketball.

I honestly don't think money/logistics is preventing Gonzaga from entering. The BEast would accept them in a heartbeat. What would give me cause for concern as Gonzaga would be the effect on recruiting. Gonzaga recruits almost exclusively from the West Coast. One of their greatest recruiting tools is "hey, your family can come see you play when we come to Pepperdine/Loyala Marymount/etc." They lose that edge if they come east. They get other benefits, such as more national exposure...but its enough to make you pause.

Also, VCU is one of the next two added. No questions asked.

[GGGG]

Regarding Gonzaga:

What I would like to see is Gonzaga added as a basketball only member. This way you eliminate the cost of sending the non-revenue sports (golf, track, tennis, etc) to Spokane for conference matches. Let the Zags keep their other sports in the WCC....its not like the WCC is in a position to refuse them.

Sure they are.  Why would the WCC allow Gonzaga to stay in the conference without it's primary, revenue generating program?  Look at a map...outside of Portland, there is no school closer than 700 miles to Spokane.

[StillAWarrior]

Regarding Gonzaga:

Gonzaga recruits almost exclusively from the West Coast. One of their greatest recruiting tools is "hey, your family can come see you play when we come to Pepperdine/Loyala Marymount/etc." They lose that edge if they come east.

Ummm...that has never been my understanding of Gonzaga's recruiting base, and a quick look at their rosters for the last several years bears that out.  Going back five years or so on their website, I see the following:

• Nampa, ID
• Newmarket, Ontario
• Kent, WA
• Ivory Coast (via Midland, TX, and Van Nuys, CA)
• Spokane, WA
• Kamloops, BC
• Monterey, CA
• Longview, WA
• Germany
• Boston, MA
• Poland
• Portland, OR
• Brooklyn Park, MN
• Memphis, TN
• Spring, TX
• Edmonton, Alberta
• Bainbridge, WA
• Quincy, WA
• McKinney, TX
• Marion, IA
• Highlands Ranch, CO
• Bonney Lake, WA
• Chicago, IL
• Irvine, CA
• Olympia, WA
• Kirtland, WA
• Bainbridge, WA
• Clarkston, WA
• Conroe, TX

I'd be hard pressed to accept that this suggests that Gonzaga "recruits almost exclusively from the West Coast....Pepperdine/Loyala Marymount/etc."  Granted, they recruit heavily from Washington (although not "almost exclusively" -- and I'm not sure that's what you meant when you said "west coast"), but that's not really the same thing.  And it certainly doesn't fit in with the "come see your kid play when we're in town" recruiting angle.

[Benny B]

Ummm...that has never been my understanding of Gonzaga's recruiting base, and a quick look at their rosters for the last several years bears that out.  Going back five years or so on their website, I see the following:

• Nampa, ID
• Newmarket, Ontario
• Kent, WA
• Ivory Coast (via Midland, TX, and Van Nuys, CA)
• Spokane, WA
• Kamloops, BC
• Monterey, CA
• Longview, WA
• Germany
• Boston, MA
• Poland
• Portland, OR
• Brooklyn Park, MN
• Memphis, TN
• Spring, TX
• Edmonton, Alberta
• Bainbridge, WA
• Quincy, WA
• McKinney, TX
• Marion, IA
• Highlands Ranch, CO
• Bonney Lake, WA
• Chicago, IL
• Irvine, CA
• Olympia, WA
• Kirtland, WA
• Bainbridge, WA
• Clarkston, WA
• Conroe, TX

I'd be hard pressed to accept that this suggests that Gonzaga "recruits almost exclusively from the West Coast....Pepperdine/Loyala Marymount/etc."  Granted, they recruit heavily from Washington (although not "almost exclusively" -- and I'm not sure that's what you meant when you said "west coast"), but that's not really the same thing.  And it certainly doesn't fit in with the "come see your kid play when we're in town" recruiting angle.

+1... First, how many of those WA players are walk-ons?
Second, it's tantamount to saying Marquette exclusively recruits Wisconsin.  10 of 29 recruits came from Washington.  MU has had 11 guys from Wisconsin in 5 years (for the benefit of those flatlanders who have trouble counting).... and it's not like they've been garden-variety talent either:

Deonte, Duane, Jameel - Could be the best class of cheese anyone has ever recruited to anywhere
Jake - Not five-star talent, but pretty damn good for a former walk-on.
Jamil & Vander -  See "last 2:00 vs. Davidson 2013"
Dwight & Wes - In the league.
Jeronne & Scotty Chris - Both former Mr. Basketballs.  Both transferred.  Hmmmm.
Frozen Pizza - Needs no explanation.  Best damn walk-on in the past decade plus, hands down.

[Galway Eagle]

+1... First, how many of those WA players are walk-ons?
Second, it's tantamount to saying Marquette exclusively recruits Wisconsin.  10 of 29 recruits came from Washington.  MU has had 11 guys from Wisconsin in 5 years (for the benefit of those flatlanders who have trouble counting).... and it's not like they've been garden-variety talent either:

Deonte, Duane, Jameel - Could be the best class of cheese anyone has ever recruited to anywhere
Jake - Not five-star talent, but pretty damn good for a former walk-on.
Jamil & Vander -  See "last 2:00 vs. Davidson 2013"
Dwight & Wes - In the league.
Jeronne & Scotty Chris - Both former Mr. Basketballs.  Both transferred.  Hmmmm.
Frozen Pizza - Needs no explanation.  Best damn walk-on in the past decade plus, hands down.

wasn't MU known more for recruiting Chicagoland? I could be wayyy off but I thought that an announcer once in a video said Al recruits guards from Chi and tall guys from NYC or something along those lines. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ummm...that has never been my understanding of Gonzaga's recruiting base, and a quick look at their rosters for the last several years bears that out.  Going back five years or so on their website, I see the following:

• Nampa, ID
• Newmarket, Ontario
• Kent, WA
• Ivory Coast (via Midland, TX, and Van Nuys, CA)
• Spokane, WA
• Kamloops, BC
• Monterey, CA
• Longview, WA
• Germany
• Boston, MA
• Poland
• Portland, OR
• Brooklyn Park, MN
• Memphis, TN
• Spring, TX
• Edmonton, Alberta
• Bainbridge, WA
• Quincy, WA
• McKinney, TX
• Marion, IA
• Highlands Ranch, CO
• Bonney Lake, WA
• Chicago, IL
• Irvine, CA
• Olympia, WA
• Kirtland, WA
• Bainbridge, WA
• Clarkston, WA
• Conroe, TX

I'd be hard pressed to accept that this suggests that Gonzaga "recruits almost exclusively from the West Coast....Pepperdine/Loyala Marymount/etc."  Granted, they recruit heavily from Washington (although not "almost exclusively" -- and I'm not sure that's what you meant when you said "west coast"), but that's not really the same thing.  And it certainly doesn't fit in with the "come see your kid play when we're in town" recruiting angle.

I'm not just talking about basketball here. You have to consider all of their other sports as well. Women's basketball, golf, tennis, rowing, softball, etc. Those recruit heavily from the west coast.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sure they are.  Why would the WCC allow Gonzaga to stay in the conference without it's primary, revenue generating program?  Look at a map...outside of Portland, there is no school closer than 700 miles to Spokane.

Because Gonzaga even without basketball is still worth about the same or more than anyone they could attract to replace them. The west coast is pretty thin. Plus, BYU won't stay in for long.

[Eldon]

Here we go with VCU again.  Theyre bad for a number of reasons

1. Big state school. Thus they may get tempted to add football down the line
2.  Big state school. Thus there are FOI concerns (sorry, Sultan, but i still have lingering doubts about this being a trivial problem)
3.  Big state school. Thus a bad institutional fit.
4.  Butler was good before brad stevens. What will vcu be like when smart leaves?

And does anyone know about their administration?  Id be possibly willing to overlook the big state school aspects for programs like UConn, cincy, memphis, or temple, but for a potential 3-yr wonder like vcu, ill hold off on that.

Id rather stay at 10 for as long as fox lets us and see what happens (i have this dream that we will one day get wake forest...i know, i know, i said dream)

[chapman]

Because Gonzaga even without basketball is still worth about the same or more than anyone they could attract to replace them.

You're right, for non-revenue generating sports Gonzaga (basically nothing) is indeed worth the same as any other school (basically nothing).  If they withdraw the only thing that gives the rest of the conference value, the others wouldn't do them a favor.  They'd make them pay to play.  Same goes for the Big East - they won't give equal revenue to a program which doesn't incur the same costs as the rest.

Id rather stay at 10 for as long as fox lets us and see what happens

Sounds like a plan.  If we have to get SLU and Richmond eventually, fine.  No rush, it's not like they have better options.

[GGGG]

Because Gonzaga even without basketball is still worth about the same or more than anyone they could attract to replace them. The west coast is pretty thin. Plus, BYU won't stay in for long.

No.  Their membership will cost its other members too much in terms of travel.  They just added Pacific, and there are other schools out there that would jump at them...like Seattle or Cal St. Bakersfield.

[bilsu]

That was the worst MU team I'd seen show up all year. We deserved to lose that game, honestly.

MU was poor against St. John's and against Notre Dame in Big East tournament. MU brook out of three game funk at the last second while Davidison choked.

[Galway Eagle]

That was the worst MU team I'd seen show up all year. We deserved to lose that game, honestly.

Really?  Worse than the E8 game? Or UWGB? 

[StillAWarrior]

I'm not just talking about basketball here. You have to consider all of their other sports as well. Women's basketball, golf, tennis, rowing, softball, etc. Those recruit heavily from the west coast.

Fair enough. I obviously was looking only at the men's basketball team.  The numbers go up in those other sports, but it still appears to be a minority (except in golf).  But there's enough sprinkled in there that I'd agree that it looks like they recruit that area heavily -- if not "almost exclusively."

[frozena pizza]

Frozen Pizza - Needs no explanation.  Best damn walk-on in the past decade plus, hands down.

Indeed, Benny.  Indeed.

[frozena pizza]

If it wasn't for Steph Curry, Davidson Dwyane Wade, Marquette would not even be brought up in a possible BE expansion conversation in 2005.

Well, every program has had its game changers.

I like the conference how it is if we can keep it at 10.  If there is a way to add Gonzaga, I would love it.  No one else really interests me all that much, but I don't dislike Davidson any more than the other names being thrown around.  They have had some very good teams and players and it is a fine institution.  They are just very small, don't bring much interest and have played in an awful conference.

[WarriorInNYC]

Here we go with VCU again.  Theyre bad for a number of reasons

1. Big state school. Thus they may get tempted to add football down the line
2.  Big state school. Thus there are FOI concerns (sorry, Sultan, but i still have lingering doubts about this being a trivial problem)
3.  Big state school. Thus a bad institutional fit.
4.  Butler was good before brad stevens. What will vcu be like when smart leaves?

And does anyone know about their administration?  Id be possibly willing to overlook the big state school aspects for programs like UConn, cincy, memphis, or temple, but for a potential 3-yr wonder like vcu, ill hold off on that.

Id rather stay at 10 for as long as fox lets us and see what happens (i have this dream that we will one day get wake forest...i know, i know, i said dream)

1.  I find it difficult to believe that any school that doesnt already have football will want to add it.  It costs so much upfront and they would also need to add an additional women's sport.  See:  multiple threads on this site regarding MU adding football.
2.  I still don't see this as any issue whatsoever.
3.  This would be the main reason they are not added.  They just don't fit the profile of the other schools in the league and there are other programs out there that do.
4.  VCU was also good before Smart.  See:  Anthony Grant

I'd like to see them added from a basketball standpoint.  They are an extremely exciting program to watch.  I still dont think they get added though as you pointed out, they are not a great cultural fit.

[Aughnanure]

1.  I find it difficult to believe that any school that doesnt already have football will want to add it.  It costs so much upfront and they would also need to add an additional women's sport.  See:  multiple threads on this site regarding MU adding football.
2.  I still don't see this as any issue whatsoever.
3.  This would be the main reason they are not added.  They just don't fit the profile of the other schools in the league and there are other programs out there that do.
4.  VCU was also good before Smart.  See:  Anthony Grant

I'd like to see them added from a basketball standpoint.  They are an extremely exciting program to watch.  I still dont think they get added though as you pointed out, they are not a great cultural fit.

They are what, #3 probably #4 state school in VA? They're not the flagship state program that UConn was when the Big East added. They will ALWAYS be under VaTech and UVA's shadows. I seriously don;t get why people get so excited about them. They're essentially a UWM that went on a lucky run one year.

Also, sure they were "good" before Smart but they still have been to the 2nd weekend in the tourney just ONCE. They will not be added over SLU.

[WarriorInNYC]

They are what, #3 probably #4 state school in VA? They're not the flagship state program that UConn was when the Big East added. They will ALWAYS be under VaTech and UVA's shadows. I seriously don;t get why people get so excited about them. They're essentially a UWM that went on a lucky run one year.

Also, sure they were "good" before Smart but they still have been to the 2nd weekend in the tourney just ONCE. They will not be added over SLU.

In terms of quality of basketball over the last 2 years, they would be the top school in VA.  In terms of attention, of course they are under VaTech and UVA.  Not sure what other school you threw in above them to drop them to #4 however.

People get excited about VCU simply because they have been a very good team in recent years.  In comparison to SLU, they have been much better.  VCU has been to the tourney 6 times since 2004.  SLU, only twice.  SLU has only been to the second weekend once since 1957.  Not sure why you bring this up for VCU but ignore SLU's lack of tourney success.

On top of that, Shaka Smart is one of the biggest names in coaching today.  Compared to SLU, there is some unfamiliarity with how successful Crews can continue to be.

If you really cannot see why people would get excited about VCU, then I don't know what else to say to you.

But also, if you read my post, you would see that I said VCU will not be added.  I do agree SLU would be added before VCU and they should because they are a better fit culturally as they fit the profile.

[Aughnanure]

In terms of quality of basketball over the last 2 years, they would be the top school in VA.  In terms of attention, of course they are under VaTech and UVA.  Not sure what other school you threw in above them to drop them to #4 however.

People get excited about VCU simply because they have been a very good team in recent years.  In comparison to SLU, they have been much better.  VCU has been to the tourney 6 times since 2004.  SLU, only twice.  SLU has only been to the second weekend once since 1957.  Not sure why you bring this up for VCU but ignore SLU's lack of tourney success.

On top of that, Shaka Smart is one of the biggest names in coaching today.  Compared to SLU, there is some unfamiliarity with how successful Crews can continue to be.

If you really cannot see why people would get excited about VCU, then I don't know what else to say to you.

But also, if you read my post, you would see that I said VCU will not be added.  I do agree SLU would be added before VCU and they should because they are a better fit culturally as they fit the profile.

James Madison, ODU, George Mason. I think it's a bit premature to declare them a clear #3 in that state for just a few good years.

SLU is a better fit, in a better market, with better academics, with better facilities, with a better arena. No, SLU overall history ain't great (they've technically never been to the second weekend, since getting to the Sweet 16 in the 50s was one win) but I'll challenge that VCU is somehow world's better. SLU always has competed in a better conference than VCU until now, so congrats on VCU beating up on a poor CAA and having ONE great run.

Also, if you're argument to add or not add a specific school is based on who their coach is (right now), I just don't know what to say to that kind of short-sighted logic.