Futbol Talk

[mu03eng]

As I just posted, I'll backtrack a bit on that. There are plenty of US players internationally on foreign teams. In fact, according to people that follow these things, most of the top young players are outside of MLS.

Also, I firmly agree that the MLS lack of free agency, and lack of transparency on player allocation in particular, will hold back the league. No argument there. MLS has to become a more desirable location to play, which is partially starting to happen.

However, a lot of talent being funneled into the U17/U20 teams is a product of MLS academies. USLPro and those affiliations are starting development of players sooner.

Needing MLS to improve the USMNT is simply a numbers game. There are maybe 6-7 quality players internationally. Are we going to pin all our hopes on those players? Or do we improve the talent base with hundreds of potential young players through MLS, USL Pro, and the MLS academies? As that system improves, the USMNT will be much stronger.

Admittedly this is a bit of a bitter pill for me, but as JWags pointed out, until we break down the current system it won't work.  We have to get soccer out of college and likely high school to be competitive.  When I was a freshmen at MU I had a try out with the Chicago Fire and they extended me an offer, but because the contract was so poor and it would have required me to skip college, I turned it down.  Oh what could have been.

Until we create an academy system where players can train and get an education (think Southhampton) the US isn't going to produce enough talent internally to meet the numbers needed for USMNT.

MLS is working on academies, but as far as I can tell they are only half serious, and even then there is such a cap on salaries going into the MLS it's hard to justify making that choice.

[jesmu84]

Well, right now what's happening is that the best US players ARE playing in MLS. As I'm sure you are aware, MLS keeps improving, as my beloved #cf97 struggle to keep up (#HauptmanOut).

My view of the fundamental problem is that US players aren't good enough for the big transfer windows. Let's say we use big transfer values/salaries as the rough proxy for talent. It's never happened for a US player. So what's the path to a big money transfer?

• International Youth Academy program makes first team and transfers. This is your Julian Green, Hyndman, Rubio Rubin, etc approach. I hope it works out, and there are a lot more young (U20) players in foreign academies these days. This is very promising and a path of growing the USMNT that does not require MLS.
• Rising US player signs contract with international club. This is the traditional route, most recently by Yedlin, but before that by Dempsey, Bradley, Altidore. Except that these guys initially transferred for small dollars and are coming home to make real money.

My point is that the growth of MLS will increase the number of US players having big money transfers because there is more money to be made at home.

I can buy into this 100%.

Also, oh god, a fellow Fire fan. Speaking of which, great to see Jermaine Jones put on the Red, eh? Oh wait.... the behind-closed-doors "blind draw." Nevermind that Kraft's team (Revs) desperately needed a big name to draw more attendance and nevermind that Kraft is very close with Garber...

If/when the MLS gets serious, they need to be more in sync with US Soccer, and generate a plan together on how to 1) produce the best domestic talent and 2) produce the best professional product possible. The ODP (youth) system is a joke. USLPro/NASL need to be "minor" leagues for MLS, similar to baseball. Or there needs to be academies. I'm not sure I can see both working well.

The next MLS CBA should be VERY interesting. Technically, as of now, the players are on strike. We'll see how united they are and how much influence they really have.

[Henry Sugar]

Until we create an academy system where players can train and get an education (think Southhampton) the US isn't going to produce enough talent internally to meet the numbers needed for USMNT.

MLS is working on academies, but as far as I can tell they are only half serious, and even then there is such a cap on salaries going into the MLS it's hard to justify making that choice.

Every MLS team has an academy. Many of them are affiliated with more than one academy. Plus there are just regular development teams. Some (not many) of the MLS teams have "onsite" type academies.

http://ussda.demosphere.com/

Here's a list of all the "homegrown" players (originally through academies) currently signed to MLS teams. Almost all of them have birthdays in the 90's, meaning that much of this talent is younger than 24. The growth of Academy driven talent into MLS is going to be exponential in the next few years.

http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/http%3A//pressbox.mlssoccer.com/homegrownplayers

In addition, I believe that almost every MLS team either has their own USL Pro team or a USL Pro affiliate. This is a path for the younger players to take instead of the college route. It is admittedly relatively new, so the growth will take some time. The idea is that a player signs a contract with the first team but then gets loaned out to the USL Pro team.

For example, the Fire just signed U17 team member Collin Fernandez to a contract. He went through the academy and instead of college, signed with the first team. Should he not get enough PT with the Fire, he'll get loaned out to St. Louis and will play USL Pro.

From the following article, here's a list of potential Academy driven players that could be in play for 2018.

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/03/mls-academies-for-the-first-time-could-lead-the-way-for-us-at-2018-world-cup/

Goalkeepers: Bill Hamid (DC United, 27)

Defenders: DeAndre Yedlin (Seattle Sounders, 24), Shane O'Neill (Colorado Rapids, 24), Erik Palmer-Brown (Sporting Kansas City, 21), Kellyn Acosta (FC Dallas, 23),

Midfielders: Luis Gil (Real Salt Lake, 24), Wil Trapp (Columbus Crew, 25), Harrison Shipp (Chicago Fire, 26), Bryan Salazar (Houston Dynamo, 23), Dillon Serna (Colorado Rapids, 24), Scott Caldwell (New England Revolution, 27)

Attackers: Jack McInerney (Philadelphia Union, 25) Juan Agudelo (New York Red Bulls, 25), Jack McBean (LA Galaxy, 23), Gyasi Zardes (LA Galaxy, 26)

[jesmu84]

I'd like to see Peter Wilt run for USSF President. I think he'd do much better than Gulati.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Agreed.  And I think you are starting to see the MLS become more attractive.  The league is expanding and attracting some great talent overseas.  Now I know that Kaka, David Villa, Lampard, and Gerrard are a little past their prime, but bringing them into the MLS, especially all at the same time while roping back all of the major USMNT players is generating more interest in the league domestically.

Short-term for the USMNT I think it would be beneficial for the top players to play overseas against better competition.  Long-term I think its better that those guys are coming back and playing in the MLS, building the league into ultimately a more competitive league that will be able to generate higher quality players down the road.

I bought season tickets for the brand new NYCFC team this year, I'm excited.  One of the greatest environments I have been to at a sporting event was a Seattle Sounders home game two years ago.  That stadium was rocking for the full 90 minutes.

I heard this morning that the new NYCFC has already sold 14,000 season tickets.

[Henry Sugar]

Good article on free agency and MLS.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121193/will-free-agency-destroy-major-league-soccer

[mu03eng]

FYI for those in the Milwaukee area

http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/ambitious-german-brings-outdoor-soccer-back-to-milwaukee-030215

[Pakuni]

Admittedly this is a bit of a bitter pill for me, but as JWags pointed out, until we break down the current system it won't work.  We have to get soccer out of college and likely high school to be competitive.  When I was a freshmen at MU I had a try out with the Chicago Fire and they extended me an offer, but because the contract was so poor and it would have required me to skip college, I turned it down.  Oh what could have been.

Until we create an academy system where players can train and get an education (think Southhampton) the US isn't going to produce enough talent internally to meet the numbers needed for USMNT.

MLS is working on academies, but as far as I can tell they are only half serious, and even then there is such a cap on salaries going into the MLS it's hard to justify making that choice.

Not a rhetorical question .... but in this instance, what makes soccer different from/unique compared to a sport like hockey, which similarly faces competition with international teams/players and yet has a thriving college (and in some places, high school) development system?

There is a national academy in Ann Arbor (US Hockey's National Team Development Program) that produces a lot of the top talent, but there's no academy system compared to what exists in European soccer. And there have been many good American players who've come out of the high school/college ranks without being in the national program.

[Pakuni]

Strike! Strike! Strike!

http://screamer.deadspin.com/all-signs-pointing-to-mls-work-stoppage-1689244812/+billyhaisley

[mu03eng]

Not a rhetorical question .... but in this instance, what makes soccer different from/unique compared to a sport like hockey, which similarly faces competition with international teams/players and yet has a thriving college (and in some places, high school) development system?

There is a national academy in Ann Arbor (US Hockey's National Team Development Program) that produces a lot of the top talent, but there's no academy system compared to what exists in European soccer. And there have been many good American players who've come out of the high school/college ranks without being in the national program.

I don't know enough about hockey to been very intelligent in my response, but that's never stopped me before    I believe that hockey is much more concentrated at the high school and college levels than soccer is, plus hockey is a larger sport in the US than soccer is.  The popularity of soccer at the lower levels(especially high school) dilutes the talent levels.  The quality of competition in high school and college is pretty low IMO as a consequence players don't develop as well.  In hockey there are fewer slots so competition is higher, the product is better and talent develops more successfully.

[brewcity77]

I'd like to see Peter Wilt run for USSF President. I think he'd do much better than Gulati.

Agreed. But I don't think he would unless Gulati stepped down. FWIW, if that did happen I think it would be the end of the Klinsmann era, or at least shorten the leash significantly.

[mu03eng]

Agreed. But I don't think he would unless Gulati stepped down. FWIW, if that did happen I think it would be the end of the Klinsmann era, or at least shorten the leash significantly.

I love Klinsy and think he's the right man for the job....but a shortened leash for him wouldn't be a bad thing.  As they say "power corrupts...."

[brewcity77]

I can say without question Peter was not a fan of the Bradley dismissal. That may stem from their time together with the Fire but I'm confident had it been Peter's decision Bradley would have at least taken us through 2014.

Personally I think JK was a solid long term hire though I feel Bradley may have yielded better short term results. I can definitely say things would be dIfferent with Peter sitting in Gulati's chair.

[Golden Avalanche]

I can say without question Peter was not a fan of the Bradley dismissal. That may stem from their time together with the Fire but I'm confident had it been Peter's decision Bradley would have at least taken us through 2014.

Personally I think JK was a solid long term hire though I feel Bradley may have yielded better short term results. I can definitely say things would be dIfferent with Peter sitting in Gulati's chair.

But not necessarily better by any tangible measurement.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I hate Brazilian internationals. Silva and Luiz knocked out my Blues and poor showings from Willian and Ramires didn't help. I hate how Jose plays when he's tied or ahead in aggregate, especially since PSG was down a man for 85 minutes. Time to put Cuadrado on the right side instead of Willian. Getting real, tired of him.

[Golden Avalanche]

I hate Brazilian internationals. Silva and Luiz knocked out my Blues and poor showings from Willian and Ramires didn't help. I hate how Jose plays when he's tied or ahead in aggregate, especially since PSG was down a man for 85 minutes. Time to put Cuadrado on the right side instead of Willian. Getting real, tired of him.

Sucks for you as a fan, great for every other person in the known world.

[MUfan12]

Great cartoon from one of the French papers-

[Golden Avalanche]

Great cartoon from one of the French papers-

Tremendous.

That entire blue outfit, from the oligarch down through Buck and Mourinho to players onto the butts in stands, is a $hit heap.

[JWags85]

Sucks for you as a fan, great for every other person in the known world.

1000%  That game ended with excitement but was a joke for most of the match.  Ibra's red card was HORRIBLE.  I've yet to see a single commentator of note defend that decision.  And beyond that, Chelsea played incredibly cynically and in the most unimaginative style.  Which is especially lame when you have that amount of talent, especially in attack.

Glad PSG is through.  Love their style of soccer when they are clicking, and Ibra has been one of my favorite players for a long time, and we don't get much more of him.

[GGGG]

This entire European season has been a disaster for English teams.

**Liverpool can't even get out of the group stage in the CL, then loses to a Turkish club in the Europa. 

**Arsenal loses 3-1 to Monaco...AT HOME in the CL.

**Man City will lose to Barcelona.

**And of course Tottenham lost in the Europa to a decent Italian team.

England is falling, while Germany is rising.  It will be fun to watch Bundesliga games on Fox next fall.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

1000%  That game ended with excitement but was a joke for most of the match.  Ibra's red card was HORRIBLE.  I've yet to see a single commentator of note defend that decision.  And beyond that, Chelsea played incredibly cynically and in the most unimaginative style.  Which is especially lame when you have that amount of talent, especially in attack.

Glad PSG is through.  Love their style of soccer when they are clicking, and Ibra has been one of my favorite players for a long time, and we don't get much more of him.

Bad red card, bad no call on what shoulda been a Costa penalty, evetything evens out. Spot on for Mourinho, why you park the bus in the 40th minute while up a man is mind boggling to me. That's why I wanted Cuadrado on at the half instead of Willian and unless Oscar was hurt why do you take him out instead of Ramires? Ugh, frustrating.

Also time to start giving Zouma some time in center back. Terry starting to look his age.

[GGGG]

2018 World Cup qualifying began today!  Initial rounds in Asia, including the first leg between East Timor and Mongolia!

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

2018 World Cup qualifying began today!  Initial rounds in Asia, including the first leg between East Timor and Mongolia!

Should be one for the ages.

[GGGG]

Should be one for the ages.

It's already over.  East Timor won 4-1.

[brewcity77]

But not necessarily better by any tangible measurement.

Can't guarantee it'd be better. If I had a vote, Peter would get it. He's very smart, business savvy, and knows American soccer better than just about anyone out there. He knows the sport at every level, having ran teams from indoor leagues all the way to MLS titles.

I also think he would be more dedicated than Gulati. Our current president was instrumental in the start of MLS, but hasn't been involved with the more grass roots levels of the sport in 20+ years.

I would always hesitate to say what I think Peter would do because I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth and don't want to share thoughts that he might rather stayed private. But I do believe he has proven from Chicago to Milwaukee to Indianapolis that he knows how to build a program, grow a fanbase, and win while still being that guy who'll sit down and talk brass tacks at the bar with fellow fans. He gets the sport, gets our culture, and knows how to fuse the two together.