Futbol Talk

[Golden Avalanche]

Colombia deserved the result. US couldn't keep possession.  Love that klinsman is basically telling any potential players that you have a much better chance at call ups if you play in Europe.

Possession game was terrible. Last 60 minutes was basically a game of "I don't want it, you take it" leading to misplaced passes that keyed the majority of Colombia's attack. Rare poor display from Mix.

Still curious how the first goal for Colombia was allowed to stand. Teophile certainly wasn't all "passive" but in a friendly you can't expect the officials to be in top form just like you can't expect he players to be.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

COLOMBIAAAA. That team is ridiculously good. Really excited for their showing in Copa America and 2018 WC

[jesmu84]

http://www.sbisoccer.com/2014/11/increasingly-frustrated-klinsmanns.html

Good for Klinsmann. The MLS execs and owners run the organization like a cartel. Moving players where and when they see fit, especially when it comes to high profile players. Jermaine Jones' mysterious "coin flip"? Examples abound. Until MLS gets its crap together with DPs, homegrown players, salary cap, etc, send the youth to Europe.

[jesmu84]

I hate the MLS

[brewcity77]

Jozy Altidore and Mix Diskerud both headed to MLS. Jozy in particular is starting to feel like that next great American striker, following in the footsteps of Eddie Johnson, Freddy Adu, Taylor Twellman, Kenny Cooper,  and everyone else who is more never was than ever will be.

I feel like the future of Gyasi Zardes is already written in the flop.

[JWags85]

Jozy Altidore and Mix Diskerud both headed to MLS. Jozy in particular is starting to feel like that next great American striker, following in the footsteps of Eddie Johnson, Freddy Adu, Taylor Twellman, Kenny Cooper,  and everyone else who is more never was than ever will be.

I feel like the future of Gyasi Zardes is already written in the flop.

Twellman got screwed by injuries and the MLS.  Multiple times he had chances to prove himself in Europe, only to have the moves rejected by the MLS.  And that was a MUCH worse MLS than right now.

Can't wait to see Altidore score meaningless goals for a mediocre Toronto team.

[jesmu84]

Jozy Altidore and Mix Diskerud both headed to MLS. Jozy in particular is starting to feel like that next great American striker, following in the footsteps of Eddie Johnson, Freddy Adu, Taylor Twellman, Kenny Cooper,  and everyone else who is more never was than ever will be.

I feel like the future of Gyasi Zardes is already written in the flop.

I'll just leave this here...

The MLS execs and owners run the organization like a cartel. Moving players where and when they see fit, especially when it comes to high profile players. Jermaine Jones' mysterious "coin flip"? Examples abound.

I hate the MLS. Allocation order? "Players of a certain caliber"? Etc, etc

[JWags85]

I think my problem is there is, thus far, no movement of players to the US and back abroad.  Dempsey is older, so I don't expect it from him, but I don't see Bradley leaving, unless he has a HUGE season, nobody will be able to match his wages.  I worry that a promising younger player like Diskerud is going to go to NYCFC, make good money and be a force and then not go back to Europe.  You make the argument for the progression of MLS all you want, but even in "lesser" leagues in Europe (Portugal, France, Belgium), you have the opportunity to play against higher caliber competition in European play.

There is some really promising domestic young talent on academy teams at Liverpool, Fulham, Southampton, Dortmund, among others.  Lets hope they pan out and bring some success stories for development abroad.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Congrats to Axel, who was drafted 14th overall in the MLS.

[ttheisen]

Congrats to Axel, who was drafted 14th overall in the MLS.

Nicely done. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Attending today's US vs Panama game.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Had great seats behind the goal as my son is the goalie for his team, felt it would be useful for him to watch them warmup, how they setup, etc.

We were not disappointed.  Rick Rimando, our starting keeper, a great save early on.  I must say, however, he is way too casual with the ball....passing in front of his own line was alarming.  He's a bit too cavalier IMO.

Panama outplayed us the first 20 to 25 minutes I thought.  Then the US got the Bradley goal.....one of the craziest goals I have ever seen in my life.  It was truly amazing.  I was on Bradley a ton at the WC, hopefully with play like today he can put things under better control.  He was solid.

Zardes, who is a local kid, played fantastic.

Dempsey, his 40th goal in international play.

[WarriorInNYC]

Had great seats behind the goal as my son is the goalie for his team, felt it would be useful for him to watch them warmup, how they setup, etc.

We were not disappointed.  Rick Rimando, our starting keeper, a great save early on.  I must say, however, he is way too casual with the ball....passing in front of his own line was alarming.  He's a bit too cavalier IMO.

Panama outplayed us the first 20 to 25 minutes I thought.  Then the US got the Bradley goal.....one of the craziest goals I have ever seen in my life.  It was truly amazing.  I was on Bradley a ton at the WC, hopefully with play like today he can put things under better control.  He was solid.

Zardes, who is a local kid, played fantastic.

Dempsey, his 40th goal in international play.

Nick Rimando is quite good actually playing the ball with his feet.  He had a bad pass to Besler that almost led to a goal had the Panamanian player put it on net.  I thought Bradley played real well and so did Zardes.  Bradley teaming up with Altidore in Toronto can only be a good thing to allow them to continue to build chemistry. 

Brek Shea looked decent at left back, getting up to support on attack.  But he has quite a bit still to learn about that position

[ChicosBailBonds]

My issue with Rimando was more about the decisionmaking and casualness with the ball.  He's obviously very talented, but didn't like what I saw at times with his approach.

Shea....he's interesting.  Big dude.  People in my section were killing the guy.  He looks a little clumsy out there at times, but he also made some nice plays with the body that disrupted several key attempts by the Panamanians. 

[JWags85]

My issue with Rimando was more about the decisionmaking and casualness with the ball.  He's obviously very talented, but didn't like what I saw at times with his approach.

Shea....he's interesting.  Big dude.  People in my section were killing the guy.  He looks a little clumsy out there at times, but he also made some nice plays with the body that disrupted several key attempts by the Panamanians. 

Rimando is what he is.  He's 35, he's not gonna make some jump, he's a good not great keeper, for some of the reasons you mentioned.

Shea is just frustrating.  He's flashy and has some flair/creativity on the ball, but he is and always has been terribly inconsistent.  Comes on as a substitute, pushes play with some good runs, gets people excited, but then always seems to regress.  Does well enough against mid level CONCACAF competition, but seems outclassed past that.

[ATWizJr]

Had great seats behind the goal as my son is the goalie for his team, felt it would be useful for him to watch them warmup, how they setup, etc.

We were not disappointed.  Rick Rimando, our starting keeper, a great save early on.  I must say, however, he is way too casual with the ball....passing in front of his own line was alarming.  He's a bit too cavalier IMO.

Panama outplayed us the first 20 to 25 minutes I thought.  Then the US got the Bradley goal.....one of the craziest goals I have ever seen in my life.  It was truly amazing.  I was on Bradley a ton at the WC, hopefully with play like today he can put things under better control.  He was solid.

Zardes, who is a local kid, played fantastic.

Dempsey, his 40th goal in international play.

Noticed that neither the ref nor the AR's were wearing headsets for comms.  Also thought that Dempsey was off on his goal. Always good to win and hopefully Klinsy got a look at some players.  Also, noticed that they played 4-4-2 this time instead of the experimental 3-5-2 vs. Chile.

[mu03eng]

Noticed that neither the ref nor the AR's were wearing headsets for comms.  Also thought that Dempsey was off on his goal. Always good to win and hopefully Klinsy got a look at some players.  Also, noticed that they played 4-4-2 this time instead of the experimental 3-5-2 vs. Chile.

They were playing more of a 4-2-3-1 at least in the first half.  I don't think there is any scenario going forward where we can play a back line of 3.  I don't think we have strong enough defenders plus it limits our strengths with the backs able to get out and make flanking runs (especially Yedlin).

I'd like to see Brek play left back against some real competition, I liked what I saw from him there, but you are correct he tends to be very middling versus top flight competition.


Oh and MLS will ruin the growth of USMNT...just had to get that off my chest.

[jesmu84]

My issue with Rimando was more about the decisionmaking and casualness with the ball.  He's obviously very talented, but didn't like what I saw at times with his approach.

Shea....he's interesting.  Big dude.  People in my section were killing the guy.  He looks a little clumsy out there at times, but he also made some nice plays with the body that disrupted several key attempts by the Panamanians. 

Rimando's last few games, his play out of the back has been very poor. And not in line with his normal decision-making. Dunno why.

Shea is a great super-sub, IMO.

[Henry Sugar]

Oh and MLS will ruin the growth of USMNT...just had to get that off my chest.

poppycock.

The evolution of MLS in its current format is fine for the USMNT. Going further, for the USMNT to truly succeed, it must be as part of the growth of MLS.

Klinsmann isn't wrong that the best US players need to test themselves and grow in the best leagues. The problem is that most US players aren't good enough to do that.

[jesmu84]

poppycock.

The evolution of MLS in its current format is fine for the USMNT. Going further, for the USMNT to truly succeed, it must be as part of the growth of MLS.

Klinsmann isn't wrong that the best US players need to test themselves and grow in the best leagues. The problem is that most US players aren't good enough to do that.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But your points seem at odds. So the US team won't succeed without growth of the MLS, but the best US players should go overseas? Wouldn't all the best US players playing in the MLS be important, if not required, to grow the MLS?

Anyone have insider? http://www.espnfc.com/story/2285373/usmnt-russia-board-40

[mu03eng]

poppycock.

The evolution of MLS in its current format is fine for the USMNT. Going further, for the USMNT to truly succeed, it must be as part of the growth of MLS.

Klinsmann isn't wrong that the best US players need to test themselves and grow in the best leagues. The problem is that most US players aren't good enough to do that.

This is where you and I will have to violently disagree.  MLS needs the USMNT to grow, but USMNT does not need MLS to grow.  Additionally, as long as MLS continues to play games with where players go and not support free agency, MLS will never grow out of a novelty.

Want to grow MLS?  Show players there is money to be made there.  If MLS grows, than USMNT players can play there against top flight competition.  Until that happens, playing in MLS holds back players.  I like the MLS, I watch it relatively consistently, but it's not a great product right now.

Why does USMNT need MLS to grow?  It would be nice, but I don't see why it is required.

[JWags85]

This is where you and I will have to violently disagree.  MLS needs the USMNT to grow, but USMNT does not need MLS to grow.  Additionally, as long as MLS continues to play games with where players go and not support free agency, MLS will never grow out of a novelty.

Twellman was banging on about free agency at the end of the telecast yesterday, and I firmly agreed, it was great.  MLS needs to cede some control and the academy system has expand further.  The best American talent shouldn't be playing college soccer, and probably not even HS. 

I play indoor with a guy who was first team All-WCC a few years ago, aka a very good college player.  He talked about playing pickup games with some of the Chicago Fire Reserve team through a buddy of his at US Soccer and how he was completely over his head.  Short of the couple of guys guys getting taken in the MLS draft, the quality just isn't there in US college soccer, the style of play isn't conducive to the professional game, and its just not going to develop pros on a long term basis.

[Henry Sugar]

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But your points seem at odds. So the US team won't succeed without growth of the MLS, but the best US players should go overseas? Wouldn't all the best US players playing in the MLS be important, if not required, to grow the MLS?

Well, right now what's happening is that the best US players ARE playing in MLS. As I'm sure you are aware, MLS keeps improving, as my beloved #cf97 struggle to keep up (#HauptmanOut).

My view of the fundamental problem is that US players aren't good enough for the big transfer windows. Let's say we use big transfer values/salaries as the rough proxy for talent. It's never happened for a US player. So what's the path to a big money transfer?

• International Youth Academy program makes first team and transfers. This is your Julian Green, Hyndman, Rubio Rubin, etc approach. I hope it works out, and there are a lot more young (U20) players in foreign academies these days. This is very promising and a path of growing the USMNT that does not require MLS.
• Rising US player signs contract with international club. This is the traditional route, most recently by Yedlin, but before that by Dempsey, Bradley, Altidore. Except that these guys initially transferred for small dollars and are coming home to make real money.

My point is that the growth of MLS will increase the number of US players having big money transfers because there is more money to be made at home.

[Henry Sugar]

This is where you and I will have to violently disagree.  MLS needs the USMNT to grow, but USMNT does not need MLS to grow.  Additionally, as long as MLS continues to play games with where players go and not support free agency, MLS will never grow out of a novelty.

Want to grow MLS?  Show players there is money to be made there.  If MLS grows, than USMNT players can play there against top flight competition.  Until that happens, playing in MLS holds back players.  I like the MLS, I watch it relatively consistently, but it's not a great product right now.

Why does USMNT need MLS to grow?  It would be nice, but I don't see why it is required.

As I just posted, I'll backtrack a bit on that. There are plenty of US players internationally on foreign teams. In fact, according to people that follow these things, most of the top young players are outside of MLS.

Also, I firmly agree that the MLS lack of free agency, and lack of transparency on player allocation in particular, will hold back the league. No argument there. MLS has to become a more desirable location to play, which is partially starting to happen.

However, a lot of talent being funneled into the U17/U20 teams is a product of MLS academies. USLPro and those affiliations are starting development of players sooner.

Needing MLS to improve the USMNT is simply a numbers game. There are maybe 6-7 quality players internationally. Are we going to pin all our hopes on those players? Or do we improve the talent base with hundreds of potential young players through MLS, USL Pro, and the MLS academies? As that system improves, the USMNT will be much stronger.

[WarriorInNYC]

As I just posted, I'll backtrack a bit on that. There are plenty of US players internationally on foreign teams. In fact, according to people that follow these things, most of the top young players are outside of MLS.

Also, I firmly agree that the MLS lack of free agency, and lack of transparency on player allocation in particular, will hold back the league. No argument there. MLS has to become a more desirable location to play, which is partially starting to happen.

However, a lot of talent being funneled into the U17/U20 teams is a product of MLS academies. USLPro and those affiliations are starting development of players sooner.

Needing MLS to improve the USMNT is simply a numbers game. There are maybe 6-7 quality players internationally. Are we going to pin all our hopes on those players? Or do we improve the talent base with hundreds of potential young players through MLS, USL Pro, and the MLS academies? As that system improves, the USMNT will be much stronger.

Agreed.  And I think you are starting to see the MLS become more attractive.  The league is expanding and attracting some great talent overseas.  Now I know that Kaka, David Villa, Lampard, and Gerrard are a little past their prime, but bringing them into the MLS, especially all at the same time while roping back all of the major USMNT players is generating more interest in the league domestically.

Short-term for the USMNT I think it would be beneficial for the top players to play overseas against better competition.  Long-term I think its better that those guys are coming back and playing in the MLS, building the league into ultimately a more competitive league that will be able to generate higher quality players down the road.

I bought season tickets for the brand new NYCFC team this year, I'm excited.  One of the greatest environments I have been to at a sporting event was a Seattle Sounders home game two years ago.  That stadium was rocking for the full 90 minutes.