MUScoop

MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: reinko on June 02, 2011, 08:49:53 AM

Title: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on June 02, 2011, 08:49:53 AM
Any 'Scoopers heading to the match on Saturday afternoon at Gillette?  I know myself, Mrs. Reinko, and Mr. and Mrs. Lab Warrior are.


USA! USA! USA!
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: Canadian Dimes on June 02, 2011, 09:05:12 AM
based on Barca v. Man U.  that game could be ugly.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: GGGG on June 02, 2011, 09:07:26 AM
How many top spanish players will be playing though?  They are still doing some euro qualifying this summer right?
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: reinko on June 02, 2011, 09:10:09 AM
How many top spanish players will be playing though?  They are still doing some euro qualifying this summer right?

The big names that won't be there are Xavi and Puyol, but everyone else got called up.

SPAIN ROSTER BY POSITION
GOALKEEPERS (3): Iker Casillas (Real Madrid), José Manuel RI have a toothache (Liverpool), Víctor Valdés (Barcelona)

DEFENDERS (7): Álvaro Arbeloa (Real Madrid), Raúl Albiol (Real Madrid), Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid), Gerard Piqué (Barcelona), Carlos Marchena (Villarreal), Joan Capdevila (Villarreal), Andoni Iraola (Athletic Bilbao)

MIDFIELDERS (6): Xabi Alonso (Real Madrid), Sergio Busquets (Barcelona), Santiago Cazorla (Villarreal), Andrés Iniesta (Barcelona), Bruno Soriano (Villarreal), Borja Valero (Villarreal)

FORWARDS (7): David Villa (Barcelona), David Silva (Manchester City), Fernando Llorente (Athletic Bilbao), Fernando Torres (Chelsea), Pedro Rodríguez (Barcelona), Manu Del Moral (Sevilla), Álvaro Negredo (Sevilla)
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: groove on June 02, 2011, 09:11:36 AM
Hope the Barca players won't be doing their diving and cheating. If Mastroeni was still on the US team we could have him go after Villa and show him a real foul.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: GGGG on June 02, 2011, 09:11:55 AM
Ok nice. Warm up for euro qualifying then.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: MUfan12 on June 02, 2011, 09:12:11 AM
I'll be watching at The Highbury. Looking forward to it.

The only thing I want out of this game is a devastating injury to Torres.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: GGGG on June 02, 2011, 09:13:32 AM
One more thing. How much time off do top players get?  A month?  A guy like david villa has basically been playing for almost two years it seems.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: groove on June 02, 2011, 09:13:47 AM
I'll be watching at The Highbury. Looking forward to it.

The only thing I want out of this game is a devastating injury to Torres.

Or Villa
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: groove on June 02, 2011, 09:16:08 AM
One more thing. How much time off do top players get?  A month?  A guy like david villa has basically been playing for almost two years it seems.

Yeah, not much off season at all. Sometimes the top teams give some of the top players offtime during the summer tours.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: reinko on June 02, 2011, 09:16:58 AM
Just found out they are giving these away in US Supporter section...I'm GEEKED
(http://www.theamericanoutlaws.com/_wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/AO-NIKE-Indivisible-Shirt.jpg)
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: groove on June 02, 2011, 09:18:12 AM
sweet!
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: jesmu84 on June 02, 2011, 11:47:18 AM
Unfortunately, Bob made some very questionable decisions on who to bring in to the US camp for the warm-ups and Gold Cup qualifying.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: MU B2002 on June 02, 2011, 11:53:23 AM
Unfortunately, Bob made some very questionable decisions on who to bring in to the US camp for the warm-ups and Gold Cup qualifying.


Care to elaborate further on this?
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: NYWarrior on June 02, 2011, 11:58:37 AM

Care to elaborate further on this?

Freddy Adu. 
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: Pakuni on June 02, 2011, 12:21:09 PM
Freddy Adu. 

Not sure it matters all that much since it's unlikely he sees the field ... err, pitch ... during any closely contested games ... err, matches.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: groove on June 02, 2011, 12:26:13 PM
Freddy Adu. 

Yeah, I agree, Adu shouldn't be on the team, and the choice of Robbie Rogers is a leap. I would like to see Timmy Chandler on the roster but I think he had issues with his German club wanting him to have some time off this summer.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: MU B2002 on June 02, 2011, 12:26:50 PM
Freddy Adu. 


That was the only glaring issue I saw, but I didn't know if I was missing something in my uninformed evaluation of the roster.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: groove on June 02, 2011, 12:27:33 PM
Not sure it matters all that much since it's unlikely he sees the field ... err, pitch ... during any closely contested games ... err, matches.


Normally I would agree with you but the Gold Cup matches are bunched up, so they are going to have to use the reserves more than usual.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: groove on June 02, 2011, 12:32:13 PM
Because the Gold Cup begins on Tuesday, there are hints out of the USA camp that Bradley may not be using his top lineup in the Spain game, putting more priority on the Gold Cup opener. That would be very disappointing. Why schedule Spain at all then? You could have brought Switzerland or Norway or some no-name team if you are going to blow off the game. Sometimes the thinking of US Soccer is baffling.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: Pakuni on June 02, 2011, 12:35:50 PM
Because the Gold Cup begins on Tuesday, there are hints out of the USA camp that Bradley may not be using his top lineup in the Spain game, putting more priority on the Gold Cup opener. That would be very disappointing. Why schedule Spain at all then? You could have brought Switzerland or Norway or some no-name team if you are going to blow off the game. Sometimes the thinking of US Soccer is baffling.

I'd venture to guess Norway or Switzerland wouldn't sell out a 68,000-seat stadium. US Soccer is a business, after all.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: groove on June 02, 2011, 12:45:58 PM
I'd venture to guess Norway or Switzerland wouldn't sell out a 68,000-seat stadium. US Soccer is a business, after all.

Yup, you are correct. I would just be a little frustrated if I were to buy tickets to the game and then not see Dempsey and Donovan play at all. I would guess with each team getting 6 subs, we are likely to see the top starters get subbed out at the half.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: jesmu84 on June 02, 2011, 01:14:39 PM

Care to elaborate further on this?

Like everyone else noted, Freddy Adu has been given his chances. I'm not saying Freddy may not be successful in a different system, but with Bob at the helm, Adu doesn't have a good situation for his talents.

If it really is a club issue with Chandler, and not his possible move to joining the German national team, I'm okay with his exclusion.

Teal Bunbury should definitely have been given a roster spot over Wondolowski.

I can't believe they only brought Bedoya in once Feilhaber got injured. Bedoya is playing much better than Rogers currently.

I think we need to move on from Onyewu. He hasn't shown much of anything as of late. I would have preferred getting someone like Omar Gonzalez some experience.

I could also make a case for Brad Davis or Mixx Diskerud over Kljestan in the midfield. I don't think Sacha has ever produced much for the national team.

Edit: Basically, I think the US has to start getting younger sooner rather than later. The same core of players that carried us in the last two World Cups are going to be nearly useless come 2014
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: groove on June 02, 2011, 01:46:59 PM
Teal Bunbury should definitely have been given a roster spot over Wondolowski.

I can't believe they only brought Bedoya in once Feilhaber got injured. Bedoya is playing much better than Rogers currently.

I think we need to move on from Onyewu. He hasn't shown much of anything as of late. I would have preferred getting someone like Omar Gonzalez some experience.

I could also make a case for Brad Davis or Mixx Diskerud over Kljestan in the midfield. I don't think Sacha has ever produced much for the national team.

Edit: Basically, I think the US has to start getting younger sooner rather than later. The same core of players that carried us in the last two World Cups are going to be nearly useless come 2014

+1

Even when Onyewu was at his best he was always a clumsy, bulky bonehead move away from a penalty.

Klejstan only showed promise with the national team in those annual January friendlies that the US always seems to schedule against the Denmark B team. I always called them pity friendlies, a way to get MLS players easy caps next to their names.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 03, 2011, 11:31:51 AM

That was the only glaring issue I saw, but I didn't know if I was missing something in my uninformed evaluation of the roster.

Adu has actually been playing pretty well. The US needs a guy to sit below the strikers. Altidore is dying a slow death and Agudelo/Bunbury are too young so the longer Bradley relies on Dempsey and/or Landon to fill in those roles, he'll need someone who is familiar with them. Besides, this is really just a temporary solution until Holden gets back from injury.

My roster issues surround Bornstein (who sucks absolute donkey.....) and Rogers. I also don't think Wondolowski brings anything. He'd be marginal at best against Concacaf competition and embarrassed at any level above that. Also agree with the above poster who mentioned Diskerud. Brings more imagination than anyone not named Dempsey.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: MUEng92 on June 03, 2011, 12:18:06 PM
Or Villa

I just got the Fox Soccer Channel last December, and prior to that I had probably watched parts of a grand total of 3-4 International soccer games in my life (basically US World Cup games).  Translation = I know little about soccer and even less about individual players.

Over the last several months I caught portions of a lot of mostly the English Premier League games and I have to admit, it wasn't bad.  At some point, I finally saw Barcelona play and it took me about 3 minutes to think to myself, "man that Villa guy is a jag".  He turned me into an anti-Barc-ite immediately.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: Bocephys on June 03, 2011, 12:57:47 PM
At some point, I finally saw Barcelona play and it took me about 3 minutes to think to myself, "man that Villa guy is a jag".  He turned me into an anti-Barc-ite immediately.

Is that similar to being an anti-dent-ite?
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: MUEng92 on June 03, 2011, 08:52:43 PM
Is that similar to being an anti-dent-ite?
Quite similar!
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: whodem on June 03, 2011, 09:11:48 PM
I expect Spain to control the ball for 60-70% of the time, and score a goal early in the game. Bradley will play extremely defensive, and Spain will score another one late.. Good warm up for the Gold Cup, which should be a USA-Mexico final like usual.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: brewcity77 on June 03, 2011, 10:26:02 PM
Here are my thoughts on the roster and Gold Cup:

Keepers: Howard is a no-brainer, Hahnemann is a stout backup, and Rimando's been solid of late. I'd have rather seen a younger guy as the third keeper as Rimando's stature and age means he'll never be in contention for the #1 shirt, but he's got good form, so I guess I can't really complain.

Defenders: Glad to see Lichaj and Ream getting their shot. Boca and 'Dolo are still among the best we have, but considering age, won't likely be part of our 2014 squad. This is probably their swan song. Bornstein and Spector...ehh. Neither excite me, but both have earned time under Bradley. They're strictly past confidence picks. Onyewu and Goodson disappoint me. I think Bradley picked them on the same merit as Bornstein and Spector, but both are slowly getting long in the tooth. I'd rather see guys like Gonzalez, Chandler, or even Boss get a chance (I know...too early).

Midfielders: Dempsey and Donovan are obvious choices. So are Edu and Jones, who should be starting together. However, despite Bradley saying form and recent club time is what matters, why do I have a feeling that Michael Bradley will play virtually every Gold Cup minute? He hasn't cracked Villa's lineup, while Edu and Jones have been very solid. It'll be interesting to see if the younger Bradley sits at all. Bedoya belonged in there from the start, Kljestan and Rogers don't belong in there at all, especially with guys like Mix and Shea out there. The only argument I see for Adu is the hope that he recaptures the form he had with Altidore in the U-20 WC back when. But has he earned this? Not really. And will he even see enough of the pitch to recapture that form? Probably not. So why is he here instead of another forward like Bunbury, Gomez, or Findlay? A curious selection, to say the least.

Forwards: Altidore is a no-brainer, despite not having much club form. He's the guy that does the most for us, despite the lack of goals. He has the pace to stretch the defense, the strength to hold up while Donovan and Dempsey rush in, and the guile to occasionally be a threat himself. Still, for this to really be a successful run for him he probably needs at least 3 goals in the Gold Cup, at least one against a decent team. Agudelo is the fresh new flavor, but while I hope he shines, I have my reservations. We had the same high hopes for Eddie Johnson and Jozy and neither have delivered. Wondolowski is the one guy here who's really earned his place with his play on the pitch. I expect him to see major minutes, here's hoping he can bag a few goals as well.

As far as Spain...well...what will we really do? You don't want to risk injury, so other than Michael Bradley, I don't expect any of the key starters (Donovan, Dempsey, even Howard) to play past the 60 minute mark. Bob Bradley rarely seems to put much stock in winning home friendlies (draw with Poland, really?) so I'm sure that we'll end up on the wrong end of a 2-0 result that could easily be much worse. Honestly, all my eggs are in the Gold Cup basket. Beating Mexico will be a tall order, however. Hopefully home soil will help, but in California against Mexico, is it even home soil in the final? I remember 2007 in Chicago, it was probably 3% American supporters. We'll be lucky to get half that in California.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: PaintTouches on June 04, 2011, 02:56:11 AM
Since the Mexican national team was brought up by a few posters I won't feel as bad hijacking this thread but... being a fan of both Mexico and the USMNT (yes these people do exist) I see this Mexico team as very very tough to beat. The attack is clicking on all cylinders now that Dos Santos decided to stop being a prima donna. Chicharito is a given but the wingers Guardado and Barrera are basically using the Gold Cup as a tryout for their next team so they will be extra lively. The midfield is old and slow but this may be the swan song for Rafa Marquez and Torrado so I see them going all out for once (its a bummer Sinha won't play most likely after his father passed away in brazil because that man knows how to run a midfield). The back line has a ton of European experience and should hold up well. The biggest weakness is at the keeper position with Ochoa and Talavera both sucking it up.

As others posted, it will come down to the U.S. and Mexico at the Rose Bowl for a ticket to Brazil 2013 and I believe Mexico will finally beat the U.S. in a meaningful game on American soil for the first time in over a decade (last year's 5-0 drubbing was against a B/C team so it doesn't really count)
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: jesmu84 on June 04, 2011, 03:48:07 PM
Midfielders: However, despite Bradley saying form and recent club time is what matters, why do I have a feeling that Michael Bradley will play virtually every Gold Cup minute? He hasn't cracked Villa's lineup, while Edu and Jones have been very solid. It'll be interesting to see if the younger Bradley sits at all.

No Donovan, Dempsey, Bocanegra or Bradley for today against Spain. I guess that tells us what we needed to know about Michael playing in the Gold Cup. I love when nepotism benefits our US national team.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2011, 05:29:26 PM
FUGLY

Enjoying the Rugby Sevens instead
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: whodem on June 04, 2011, 06:56:03 PM
Michael Bradley played well today, that was about it. Would also be nice if we had a good coach.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: brewcity77 on June 05, 2011, 08:49:06 AM
I chalk yesterday up as a game that simply showed how far we are behind the world's elite. I heard plenty of people making the excuses "Donovan and Dempsey didn't start..." but that's crap. Neither did Xavi or Iniesta, and there's little doubt that they are Spain's two most important players. We were decimated, and frankly, the scoreline favored us more than it did Spain. It easily could have been 5-0 at halftime.

Right now the focus has to be the Gold Cup. I fully feel we can win it, but it really depends primarily on our defense. Granted, a slip-up could happen, but the focus has to be on the Rose Bowl, as pux mentioned. If Cherundolo can slow up Guardado and we find some form of central defenders that can both abuse Chicharito while clearing out the entry balls (maybe Boca and a fit Onyewu) we can win. We'll also need someone to competently play left back, my hope is with Lichaj. The midfield will work itself out, and Altidore may not be a scorer, but he can hold up play long enough to make Donovan and Dempsey factors. It wouldn't surprise me if we went 4-5-1 against Mexico, with Donovan and Dempsey on the wings, it would be very easy to shift into a 4-3-3 when we are in attack.

Back to Spain...the only real problem with it is that was our warm-up match. That's the game to get the players ready to play and to get the neutral fans interested in the Gold Cup. Great job, the players looked like assclowns and the neutral fans will be saying "why would I bother watching this team?" We'd have been much better off scheduling a Norway, Slovenia, Australia, or even Portugal, a team that we could have at least competed with yet was respectable on the world scale. I'll still watch the Gold Cup, but I'm a diehard. What borderline supporter would be interested in watching us after that crap?
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: HouWarrior on June 05, 2011, 09:47:48 AM
I chalk yesterday up as a game that simply showed how far we are behind the world's elite. I heard plenty of people making the excuses "Donovan and Dempsey didn't start..." but that's crap. Neither did Xavi or Iniesta, and there's little doubt that they are Spain's two most important players. We were decimated, and frankly, the scoreline favored us more than it did Spain. It easily could have been 5-0 at halftime.


Back to Spain...the only real problem with it is that was our warm-up match. That's the game to get the players ready to play and to get the neutral fans interested in the Gold Cup. Great job, the players looked like assclowns and the neutral fans will be saying "why would I bother watching this team?" We'd have been much better off scheduling a Norway, Slovenia, Australia, or even Portugal, a team that we could have at least competed with yet was respectable on the world scale. I'll still watch the Gold Cup, but I'm a diehard. What borderline supporter would be interested in watching us after that crap?
I agree. I saw my first La Liga game at Real Madrid in 1978, and have been a fan of Spain , for decades...so I have a bias. But....This was only about half of Spain's  world cup squad playing yesterday...key guys coming off of partying over the FC Barca win over ManU...they were by no means rested, or peaking. It was brutal, and easily could have been worse. Santi Cazorla plays for Villareal, for gods sake, which wasnt even top 3 team in La Liga. USA let him look like Messi.

USAs 4 4 2 layback D was dangerous and they got burned. They lack a Ramos/Puyol type shutdown defender. If they planned on resting for the next round-gold cup, USA shouldve scheduled a single dimension team like Ronaldo's Portugal....it would have better prepared them for upcoming north american play. Portugal wouldve still beaten this USA squad, but the styles wouldve been more similar.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: PaintTouches on June 05, 2011, 10:54:52 AM
While I agree Portugal would have been a better opponent, they had a Euro Qualifier yesterday so that wouldn't have been possible.

What bothers me more than scheduling Spain is waiting til the second half to bring in "the starters." I get the whole rest and no injuries excuse, but playing the first half instead of the second half would have given them the same amount of minutes. It just seemed like a terrible decision by Bradley Sr. now that we were outclassed and embarrassed. All I know is if I was Timmy Howard and I was out there for target practice in the first half, I'd be mightily peeved.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: brewcity77 on June 05, 2011, 11:58:25 AM
While I agree Portugal would have been a better opponent, they had a Euro Qualifier yesterday so that wouldn't have been possible.

What bothers me more than scheduling Spain is waiting til the second half to bring in "the starters." I get the whole rest and no injuries excuse, but playing the first half instead of the second half would have given them the same amount of minutes. It just seemed like a terrible decision by Bradley Sr. now that we were outclassed and embarrassed. All I know is if I was Timmy Howard and I was out there for target practice in the first half, I'd be mightily peeved.

One possible argument in favor of waiting until the second half...as a result Michael Bradley got to play against Spain when they were already up 3-0 and no longer cared about what we did. As a result, Bradley looked like a better player than Jermaine Jones, giving justification for him to start in the Gold Cup, despite him having no club form whatsoever while Jones and Edu had far superior seasons and have done more in the past 6 months to warrant their selection, not to mention the injured Holden, named player of the season at Bolton.

And houwarrior, why knocking the Yellow Submarine? They were still a top-4 side in Spain and made it into Champions' League qualifying. They also finished ahead of Barca in the standings just 3 years ago and have qualified for Europe 6 of the past 8 seasons. Santi would probably walk into the starting lineup of any club side in the world outside of maybe Barca and Madrid, and would also likely start for any other national team in the world, including Brazil. He may not be Xavi, but he's probably still a top-150 in the world player, if not top-100.

What can I say...Villarreal is my favorite La Liga side...gotta defend 'em ;D
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: jesmu84 on June 05, 2011, 12:38:50 PM
Keeping Bob Bradley around this long has been a true detriment to our national team. His strategy/pre-game planning is average at best. His overreliance on veterans hurts in that he keeps guys around way too long after they bottomed out. His/his coaches ability to spot young talent and develop it is horrible. I'm not sure where our next coach should come from, but Bradley is not the answer.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: HouWarrior on June 05, 2011, 12:40:29 PM

And houwarrior, why knocking the Yellow Submarine? They were still a top-4 side in Spain and made it into Champions' League qualifying. They also finished ahead of Barca in the standings just 3 years ago and have qualified for Europe 6 of the past 8 seasons. Santi would probably walk into the starting lineup of any club side in the world outside of maybe Barca and Madrid, and would also likely start for any other national team in the world, including Brazil. He may not be Xavi, but he's probably still a top-150 in the world player, if not top-100.

What can I say...Villarreal is my favorite La Liga side...gotta defend 'em ;D
I am not knocking any La Liga side. La Liga is the best quality soccer, in el mundo. "Soy de Real" (Real Madrid) is my lifetime loyalty, although I have to admit as a pure fan of great soccer , FC Barcelona plays the beautiful game most beautifully of any side in the world.
To me, World Cup is like olympic basketball, in comparison  to the NBA game....one finds in the Champions, La Liga and Premier, every year. USA fans tend to jump on world cup, but watching regular play in the Euro club leagues, is my preference.  To me, the recent Copa del Rey (Real/Barca) and Barca /ManU matches were as good or better than any world cup match. With Fox and GolTV, we now get pretty good regular coverage.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 05, 2011, 02:31:16 PM
Keeping Bob Bradley around this long has been a true detriment to our national team. His strategy/pre-game planning is average at best. His overreliance on veterans hurts in that he keeps guys around way too long after they bottomed out. His/his coaches ability to spot young talent and develop it is horrible. I'm not sure where our next coach should come from, but Bradley is not the answer.

This.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: MUfan12 on June 05, 2011, 10:59:00 PM
Keeping Bob Bradley around this long has been a true detriment to our national team. His strategy/pre-game planning is average at best. His overreliance on veterans hurts in that he keeps guys around way too long after they bottomed out. His/his coaches ability to spot young talent and develop it is horrible. I'm not sure where our next coach should come from, but Bradley is not the answer.

I totally agree. He got the tactics and team selection totally wrong against Slovenia and Ghana last summer in South Africa. Having to sub Rico Clark after 30 minutes was pretty damning.

There's absolutely no creativity, and the players that have it typically don't start (save Donovan and Dempsey). Look at Stu Holden. I know he's injured now, but he's hardly had a chance with Bob. Yet, he's good enough to be one of Bolton's best players.

Bob, like his preferred style of play, is safe. Not horrible, not great. With the young players in the pool right now, there is more technical ability than the US has ever had. They need someone to get a cohesive, attacking style and take advantage of that going forward.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 06, 2011, 08:56:44 AM
I understand most everybody is a nativist at heart and really wants the entire US program to thrive but a foreign manager would cut the fat in this squad in six months not having to be hung up by the bullcrap politics and favorites that snarls an ineffective Bradley.

We're stuck in a marriage of fear.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: jesmu84 on June 06, 2011, 10:00:30 AM
I understand most everybody is a nativist at heart and really wants the entire US program to thrive but a foreign manager would cut the fat in this squad in six months not having to be hung up by the bullcrap politics and favorites that snarls an ineffective Bradley.

We're stuck in a marriage of fear.up
Absolutely true. After Bruce arena, klinsman wanted the job and he would have done a great job. But when he was told he couldn't have free reign to select his own players for the roster, he walked. And he should have. Unfortunately USA soccer problems don't start or end with Bob Bradley. Gotta start at the top where resident moron gulati day in and day out shows he doesn't know what he's doing.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: Canadian Dimes on June 07, 2011, 10:05:13 AM
I am not knocking any La Liga side. La Liga is the best quality soccer, in el mundo. "Soy de Real" (Real Madrid) is my lifetime loyalty, although I have to admit as a pure fan of great soccer , FC Barcelona plays the beautiful game most beautifully of any side in the world.
To me, World Cup is like olympic basketball, in comparison  to the NBA game....one finds in the Champions, La Liga and Premier, every year. USA fans tend to jump on world cup, but watching regular play in the Euro club leagues, is my preference.  To me, the recent Copa del Rey (Real/Barca) and Barca /ManU matches were as good or better than any world cup match. With Fox and GolTV, we now get pretty good regular coverage.

HOU,

I agree with you on the quality of soccer in the top leagues/top teams.   But not sure u can really comapre it to the NBA and Olympics.  In the sense that the US olympic BBAll team would beat any regular season NBA team in a roll over.   

Not the case with club soccer ...due to the widespread talent accross the nations and the purse strings of teams like BArca and MAnu they can take their top national players ie Iniesta, villa, and Xavi and not fill the team out with other good players from the same country but actually add better players with the likes of a Messi.

i think MAnu would beat the English team.  no way the HEat beat the olympic team.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: HouWarrior on June 07, 2011, 12:40:45 PM
HOU,
... 
We both see the soccer point the same...but the NBA/olympic analogy wasnt about who'd beat whom...but rather that every 4 year teams converging and briefly playing artificially together, based on nationality, cant compare to a pro/club team who.ve played for years, almost daily together...and the on field product is better. I know many NBA fans....but few who even tune to watch a USA Natl team game in Olympics...their  quality of play just isnt much fun to watch, largely because the national exhibition teams are slapped together, with little practice cohesion, in comparison. 
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: brewcity77 on June 08, 2011, 04:28:44 PM
Absolutely true. After Bruce arena, klinsman wanted the job and he would have done a great job. But when he was told he couldn't have free reign to select his own players for the roster, he walked. And he should have. Unfortunately USA soccer problems don't start or end with Bob Bradley. Gotta start at the top where resident moron gulati day in and day out shows he doesn't know what he's doing.

There's more to it than that, Klinsmann wanted not only control over selecting players but control over the entire US Soccer system, down to the youth levels. It makes sense because our youth programs are miles behind the German program that Klinsmann is accustomed to, but it was too much for Gulati to give up.

However, that last sentence is exactly right. Gulati doesn't know what he's doing and has been slowly killing us. We could do worse than Bradley, and while I was a huge Bradley detractor, I came around on him eventually. But he never should have been given a second cycle. We saw how poorly that worked with Arena. Whether we stuck with another American or went with a foreigner, fresh blood was needed, especially with the potential nepotism issues when one of the best players is also the coach's son.

My honest hope is that once Jose has captured his Spanish treble, then taken over the reins in Portugal and shocks the world by winning the World Cup behind Ronaldo in 2014, he will finally decide it's time to conquer the world. He's already expressed an interest to coach in the MLS, maybe we could get him to the MLS, then coerce him into taking over our national team. It might be a pipe dream, but he's already said that it interests him...I'd love to get a shot at him before he settles in at Man United for the rest of his career.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: HouWarrior on June 12, 2011, 08:54:14 AM
Thank god USA rested in the Spain match , allowing them ,Saturday, to relax, watch and enjoy the energetic team from Panama jumping on them for a 2-1, loss, the first USA loss in a group stage match, ...ever.
This may be good...USA needs an awakening, and some shake ups.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6652766/panama-stuns-united-states-2-1-gold-cup
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 12, 2011, 11:21:44 AM
Thank god USA rested in the Spain match , allowing them ,Saturday, to relax, watch and enjoy the energetic team from Panama jumping on them for a 2-1, loss, the first USA loss in a group stage match, ...ever.
This may be good...USA needs an awakening, and some shake ups.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6652766/panama-stuns-united-states-2-1-gold-cup

I'd agree if there was any semblance of a chance that something would happen. The fact is that Bradley is untouchable. The only thing more stubborn than an idiot is getting an idiot to admit their mistake. Gulati will never have the character to go down this path.

The one thing even a casual observer could see last night was an athletics team that looked like they had no worries in the world. They've simply tuned Bradley out, which always leads to giving up early goals after lackluster starts. He has no leverage over them and everyone knows that.

This team will continue to be a minor league outfit even if they're able to win despite being held back by the structure.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: brewcity77 on June 13, 2011, 09:49:05 PM
The one thing even a casual observer could see last night was an athletics team that looked like they had no worries in the world. They've simply tuned Bradley out, which always leads to giving up early goals after lackluster starts. He has no leverage over them and everyone knows that.

Boy, does that ever feel familiar. It was just eight years ago that a USA team on the heels of a surprising World Cup run tuned out their manager, and despite coming into the next (2006) Cup with great promise and hype, fell flat on their faces. It's starting to feel like despite our talent level being higher than ever, we're going to crap the bed again in 2014.

This is why NT managers aren't worth keeping around for a second cycle. It didn't have to be a landmark hire, but I'd have rather seen even a Dominic Kinnear or Steve Nicol take over the NT than bringing Bradley back. The biggest problem an international manager has is that time passes them by quickly. You only get 12-16 matches a year, so by the end of a cycle, it's as though you've played one season. But the players age much faster than that. Bradley will stick by guys like Donovan, Dempsey, Onyewu, Bocanegra, and Howard despite them aging. I'm not saying there are better options yet, but Bradley probably won't recognize the better options until it's too late. That's a mistake a new set of eyes at the top wouldn't make, even if they weren't as good tactically as Bradley. And while he may not always be a great tactician, that 2-0 win over Spain in 2009 was probably the greatest tactical maneuvering ever by a USMNT manager.

Sunil Gulati has to go. And Bradley should go with him.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 14, 2011, 09:32:57 AM
Boy, does that ever feel familiar. It was just eight years ago that a USA team on the heels of a surprising World Cup run tuned out their manager, and despite coming into the next (2006) Cup with great promise and hype, fell flat on their faces. It's starting to feel like despite our talent level being higher than ever, we're going to crap the bed again in 2014.

This is why NT managers aren't worth keeping around for a second cycle. It didn't have to be a landmark hire, but I'd have rather seen even a Dominic Kinnear or Steve Nicol take over the NT than bringing Bradley back. The biggest problem an international manager has is that time passes them by quickly. You only get 12-16 matches a year, so by the end of a cycle, it's as though you've played one season. But the players age much faster than that. Bradley will stick by guys like Donovan, Dempsey, Onyewu, Bocanegra, and Howard despite them aging. I'm not saying there are better options yet, but Bradley probably won't recognize the better options until it's too late. That's a mistake a new set of eyes at the top wouldn't make, even if they weren't as good tactically as Bradley. And while he may not always be a great tactician, that 2-0 win over Spain in 2009 was probably the greatest tactical maneuvering ever by a USMNT manager.

Sunil Gulati has to go. And Bradley should go with him.

There is no reason to pattern everything after the more "traditional" powers in the world as they can still get it wrong. But one area we should be following is realizing that a manager should only get one World Cup cycle. The history is overwhelming in this regard and its stunning the US Federation seems to repeatedly ignore it.

That last bolded part is what has set me off the last two years. With Bradley, you always know Bornstein will get an uncalled for selection whereas Edgar Castillo got one half in a friendly and was never called again. Klejstan is on his third or fourth chance whereas Torres was hung out to dry against Slovenia last summer and has been dropped. Pick any B level MLS forward and they'll get multiple chances whereas he won't even select a kid with potential in Bunbury to blood him out during the Gold Cup.

The Spain win, for me, is right up there with the "Miracle on Ice" in terms of shocking value. But let's not forget Bradley's team followed that up by blowing a 2-0 halftime lead against Brasil with the opportunity to win a major Tournament for once in our history. Did Bradley rest on his laurels after Spain 2009? The evidence seems to show it as the US has steadily fallen backwards since that wonderful night.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: HouWarrior on June 19, 2011, 03:45:18 PM
Has anyone seen the roving 3-5-2 played by Jamaica, the next USA opponent?

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6667561/us-vs-jamaica-preview-gold-cup-soccer

..."Close scrutiny reveals that only the three center backs and a holding midfielder in front of them are chained to their spots for Jamaica. The rest of the team -- two marauding wings backs, two more central midfielders and two forwards -- is free to drift and swap positions as it pleases. It looks and feels like a Caribbean-flavored version of the Dutch house-style of the 1970s...."

I was lucky to be in Amsterdam to watch the Dutch in the 1978 World cup---I thought the Dutch house defense was the best pattern I'd ever seen...to this day. If the Jamaicans play the same, even half as well....the USA could be in real trouble...it really denies good looks, open runs, and any crosses superbly.

Host Argentina's incredible ball handling and better talent (Mario Kempes, Leopoldo Luque)won the '78 final, but the Dutch defense is what got them to 2 consecutive WC finals in the 70s, losing to Host W Germ., in that one-1974- too.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: MUDPT on June 20, 2011, 09:59:46 AM
The 3 defensive players didn't work yesterday because Bradley only played one up top, keeping 5 midfielders and dominating the midfield.  See Zonal Marking. 

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/06/19/united-states-2-0-jamaica-gold-cup/
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: HouWarrior on June 20, 2011, 12:03:09 PM
The 3 defensive players didn't work yesterday because Bradley only played one up top, keeping 5 midfielders and dominating the midfield.  See Zonal Marking. 

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/06/19/united-states-2-0-jamaica-gold-cup/
Yup...and ESPN was way off to compare this Jamaican side to the Dutch house D of the 70s, as the Dutch were totally disciplined to area coverages, and shifting...a few Jamaicans simply lacked field and position awareness.
USA looked nice.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 20, 2011, 10:14:20 PM
Yup...and ESPN was way off to compare this Jamaican side to the Dutch house D of the 70s, as the Dutch were totally disciplined to area coverages, and shifting...a few Jamaicans simply lacked field and position awareness.
USA looked nice.

Jamaica actually played the exact opposite of their three group matches. Not sure if that was planned. Not sure if that was down to missing a few early chances and reverting to a shell. Or not sure if they just didn't have the bottle to stay with the attack but in the end the US really lucked out that Jamaica wasn't anything near what they were earlier in the Tournament.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: HouWarrior on June 22, 2011, 07:59:25 PM
USA looks like they've redeemed the Panama loss...we win  1nil, . Donovan shouldve been in entire game. Bradley needs to coach his first halves as well as second halves.

BTW, I've been to Reliant Stadium for some intl friendlies before. It was built with both soccer and NFL football in mind....and favorably compares to any World cup venue worldwide...a great soccer stadium.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: reinko on June 22, 2011, 08:06:52 PM
Yeah, I agree, Adu shouldn't be on the team, and the choice of Robbie Rogers is a leap. I would like to see Timmy Chandler on the roster but I think he had issues with his German club wanting him to have some time off this summer.


Any crow you wanna eat groove??   ;)

Nice win for the Yanks tonight, onto the Rose Bowl
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: groove on June 22, 2011, 09:24:57 PM
Yeah, gladly. Tonight he looked like a different player than he has the last few years. Maybe he has actually started to work hard and not live off of his hype. Maybe he got a wakeup call getting bounced around from club to club. Let's hope it wasn't just a 20 minute flash and he can built on it. We can use all the offense we can get.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: HouWarrior on June 22, 2011, 09:42:32 PM
Any crow you wanna eat groove??   ;)

Nice win for the Yanks tonight, onto the Rose Bowl
Reinko...might we retitle this as the "soccer thread", and leave it up there like the beer and NL central threads....we have a good core of soccer fans, who'll post regularly...many thanks for starting this one...
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: reinko on June 22, 2011, 09:47:50 PM
Reinko...might we retitle this as the "soccer thread", and leave it up there like the beer and NL central threads....we have a good core of soccer fans, who'll post regularly...many thanks for starting this one...

Done and done Esq.  You go to the game tonight?
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: jesmu84 on June 22, 2011, 10:13:23 PM
Yeah, gladly. Tonight he looked like a different player than he has the last few years. Maybe he has actually started to work hard and not live off of his hype. Maybe he got a wakeup call getting bounced around from club to club. Let's hope it wasn't just a 20 minute flash and he can built on it. We can use all the offense we can get.
eh... he had a few good moments. his ball to donovan was brilliant. but i saw much of the same adu dancing around the ball, getting himself in bad field location and losing possession when he had options.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: groove on June 22, 2011, 10:19:44 PM
eh... he had a few good moments. his ball to donovan was brilliant. but i saw much of the same adu dancing around the ball, getting himself in bad field location and losing possession when he had options.

yeah, some of that too. The sample size is way too small to make a judgement. I'm concerned about how poorly the US played for most of the match. Way too slow at moving the ball around and changing direction.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: HouWarrior on June 22, 2011, 11:57:28 PM
Done and done Esq.  You go to the game tonight?
Futbol is a great titling--thanks
I got a call from my bro, with the NBC affiliate he scored tickets late today--too late for me to make it...but he and his daughter went...they said it was a really good crowd
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 23, 2011, 12:43:17 AM
USA vs. Mexico on Saturday... giddy up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: PaintTouches on June 23, 2011, 02:03:37 AM
USA vs. Mexico on Saturday... giddy up.

I love and loathe this matchup. Being from Mexico and having lived there for 7 years I grew up with El Tri, but spending the last 14 years in the U.S. I have come to love Landon and company as well. My allegiances are with Mexico in this Clasico but win or lose, it's never a good feeling afterwards because a part of me lost.

Anyways, this game should be very interesting. I'm curious to see how Lichaj holds up in particular with Barrera seemingly rounding into form. Lichaj has been great so far but this is his biggest challenge to date. If he does well Saturday I think the USMNT has finally found a viable candidate at LB. As for Mexico's defense, it can only be described as porous. Agudelo's speed will kill El Tri's backline.

I expect the U.S. to play conservatively and counterattack a la Honduras/Guatemala because that's when Mexico is most vulnerable. I see this being a close game with a final scoreline of 1-0, winning team TBD.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 23, 2011, 07:06:17 AM
USA vs. Mexico on Saturday... giddy up.

I'm excited for this. The USA has played much better since Panama. Mexico, however, is a huge step up. Best opponent since Spain.  I've gotta think Mexico has the advantage with talent on the field. It'll be interesting to see Chicharito (sp?) against Goodson/Boca.  I'm very concerned with the US outside backs in the this game. Lichaj/'Dolo have proved very effective in pushing up the field and supporting the attack, allowing Dempsey/Donovan/Bedoya to tuck inside. But, in doing so, have shown they get caught out of position on a counterattack; and all that recovering could lead to fatigue late.  My guess is the US stays with the 4-5-1 which has shown productive when the team maintains form and is able to attack with nearly every player, but take it more as a counterattack, rather than a possession.

Slightly related.... how does everyone feel about Mexico being able to bring in 5 replacement players for those suspended for doping/PEDs (can't remember the exact reason) use. I think it sets a dangerous precedent going forward. Teams will be wanting replacements for injuries, and I think that when you set a tournament roster, that's the only players you should have access to.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 23, 2011, 08:01:39 AM
First, I agree on the replacement players. If we could prove that Jozy Altidore's injury was because of tainted chicken, could we bring up Teal Bunbury to replace him? It's a load of crap.

But as far as Saturday...I really hate to say it, but I'm expecting us to lose. I will be hoping and cheering for a win, and we definitely have the ability and players to win the game, but Mexico is the better team right now. I have been encouraged by Lichaj of late, if he can keep up this level of play, he stands to be our best ever left back. I know that isn't really saying much when the only competition is David Regis and Jeff Agoos (who admittedly was pretty good) but it's been ages since that has been a near-empty position.

I'll be curious to see if Bradley sticks with the same lineup. I love Bedoya starting, but Kljestan has to go. He's a waste out there. What of value did he bring to the game in the first half yesterday? I scarcely remember him touching the ball. If he wants Donovan as a second half sub, fine. Move Bradley up front as an attacking mid/secondary striker (the role he played in Holland) and bring Edu into the central midfield. Hell, I'd rather see Adu starting over Kljestan after watching his decent performance yesterday.

To beat Mexico, I think we'll have to pretty much play park the bus and hit them on the counterattack. I think that a front line of Agudelo, Dempsey, and Bedoya with Donovan or Adu in the hole could really be effective. The defense needs to be physical, I hope to see Bradley and Jones chipping Chicharito every time he runs by. If it's a 1-0 game or goes to penalties we can win. If we need 2-3 goals, I'm not sure this team will be able to get the job done.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: groove on June 23, 2011, 08:31:39 AM
yeah, I agree with you on Kljestan, he was a waste in the first half. Played better the previous game.. Bradley has played well against Mexico in the past and usually is more agressive against them. It was interesting that he played back more last night and Jones moved up more often.

I would love to see us beat the hell out of Chicharito ever time he touches the ball. I love seeing the mexicans get frustrated and lose their composure. And it really pisses them off when we beat them with the counter attack strategy, because they always feel like they are the better team and all our wins are luck. Great rivalry, but I fear Mexico is just too strong for us at this time.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 23, 2011, 09:25:42 AM
USA looks like they've redeemed the Panama loss...we win  1nil, . Donovan shouldve been in entire game. Bradley needs to coach his first halves as well as second halves.

BTW, I've been to Reliant Stadium for some intl friendlies before. It was built with both soccer and NFL football in mind....and favorably compares to any World cup venue worldwide...a great soccer stadium.

Happy you wrote that. I've noticed in the past matches I've seen on TV from there that it sounds like a good atmosphere but you never know the reality. And, of course, atmosphere comes from great sight lines that engage the crowd into the action.

As for America, I maintain that much like last summer they win in spite of Bob Bradley. He ignores a well in form Bedoya on the original roster for the likes of Robbie Rogers and yet Bedoya (as a replacement for Feilhaber) ends up becoming an integral part of the team, whether as impact sub or starter, whereas Rogers has only sat in a luxury box for two weeks. Smart selection, Bobby.

Regarding Saturday, Mexico will be dangerous. Did you see how they plodded along for 90 minutes and then went for blood in extra time? Elite teams do that and Mexico has been far from elite the last five or six years so it may be "uh oh" time. Hernandez was born offside so much will depend on the eyes of the linesmen and if he's allowed the spaces he will eat up Goodson like a kebab from the high street in Manchester.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: groove on June 23, 2011, 12:23:30 PM
So what is the truth about in stadium interaction between Mexican and USA fans over the years? I've heard different stories from many different people. Some saying the mexican fans are abusive and obnoxious to the American fans and others have said they had good experiences with the Mexican fans even in Mexico City. Guess it's like any other rivalry.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on June 23, 2011, 12:42:26 PM
So what is the truth about in stadium interaction between Mexican and USA fans over the years? I've heard different stories from many different people. Some saying the mexican fans are abusive and obnoxious to the American fans and others have said they had good experiences with the Mexican fans even in Mexico City. Guess it's like any other rivalry.

I imagine no American is planning on throwing balloons filled with urine and crap in them...

http://www.examiner.com/fitness-in-cleveland/usa-vs-mexico-soccer-the-biggest-rivalry-you-don-t-know-much-about
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: groove on June 23, 2011, 12:48:52 PM
I imagine no American is planning on throwing balloons filled with urine and crap in them...

http://www.examiner.com/fitness-in-cleveland/usa-vs-mexico-soccer-the-biggest-rivalry-you-don-t-know-much-about

there you go. thanks. At least the US Soccer Fed is now smart enough not to schedule our home World Cup qualifying matches against Mexico in cities, like Houston or Los Angeles. I loved the one we played against them in Feb. in Columbus a few years ago. I think the temperature was in the teens.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 23, 2011, 01:09:54 PM
Watch the video of Donovan being pelted with God knows what when taking a corner a year or two ago at Azteca stadium and then ask if that would ever happen in the US.  I'm not talking about a snowball or an occasional battery in a marshmallow in Philly, I'm talking about police in riot shields protecting him as he lined up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Jam Chowder on June 23, 2011, 01:38:04 PM
The only thing trashier then El Tri's players are their fans. They are an affront to civilized societies everywhere. Can't stand 'em. Go yanks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 23, 2011, 01:39:10 PM
Watch the video of Donovan being pelted with God knows what when taking a corner a year or two ago at Azteca stadium and then ask if that would ever happen in the US.  I'm not talking about a snowball or an occasional battery in a marshmallow in Philly, I'm talking about police in riot shields protecting him as he lined up.

This is just one of the reasons why CONCACAF is a joke. If anything remotely close to this happened during a Euro qualifier, the match would be abandoned, and the game would be played in an empty stadium.

It's shameful and disgusting that stuff is still allowed to happen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: groove on June 23, 2011, 01:45:00 PM
This is just one of the reasons why CONCACAF is a joke. If anything remotely close to this happened during a Euro qualifier, the match would be abandoned, and the game would be played in an empty stadium.

It's shameful and disgusting that stuff is still allowed to happen.

Would be nice if somehow the US got out of CONCACAF and into CONMEBOL. Obviously would be more difficult to make the World Cup every cycle but in the long run it would be better for US Soccer and we wouldnt have to deal with playing on high school quality pitches like we do when we play at some of the CONCACAF minnows.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 23, 2011, 02:19:38 PM
Linksy Links

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/06/23/gold-cup-u-s-beats-panama-1-0-advances-to-final-showdown-with-mexico/

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/06/23/united-states-1-0-panama-tactics/

Also, Eff You, Mexico!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on June 23, 2011, 03:21:39 PM
Not a predictor of the outcome, but I like the Mexico matchup points (style,formation,defense,etc) for the USA, better than those with Panama.

I am optomistic for USA in the Rose Bowl..
...even if I remain a diehard Real Madrid, and Spain fan moreso(sorry).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on June 23, 2011, 04:47:49 PM
Sometimes it pays to mark a goalie...just a little.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/23/quillan-roberts-goal-video-canada_n_882829.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsax_Om74C0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb5_ULy16-4
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: groove on June 23, 2011, 05:06:28 PM
anyone been to the new kansas city stadium yet. On telelvision it looks great. Looks like a nice setup. I hate the "soccer specific stadiums' that have stages on either end of the pitch, like Columbus.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: PaintTouches on June 23, 2011, 05:44:33 PM
In response to groove's original question, it all depends on who you sit by. Yes there are some some very obnoxious, threatening Mexico fans, but by no means can you label all Mexico fans "an affront to civilization" as Jam Chowder did. It's actually quite insulting.

The biggest factor, as is usually the case during sporting events, is the amount of alcohol consumed. I went to the 2007 Gold Cup Final in Chicago and saw my fair share of tough man talk from both American and Mexican fans. Obviously the U.S. fans had the last laugh in that one.

As for the stuff thrown on the field, yea that never happens in Europe... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMRD8fGToFY
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 23, 2011, 09:11:48 PM
In response to groove's original question, it all depends on who you sit by. Yes there are some some very obnoxious, threatening Mexico fans, but by no means can you label all Mexico fans "an affront to civilization" as Jam Chowder did. It's actually quite insulting.

The biggest factor, as is usually the case during sporting events, is the amount of alcohol consumed. I went to the 2007 Gold Cup Final in Chicago and saw my fair share of tough man talk from both American and Mexican fans. Obviously the U.S. fans had the last laugh in that one.

As ever, it does depend on a lot of factors. Went to Gold Cup 2007 Final with buddy who is Mexican-American and we sat 15 rows behind one goal which happened to be mostly Mexico supporters. Throughout the match it was typical crap. As Benny scored his wonder goal it all changed. I was the target of all their verbal abuse and at the final whistle was showered with many cups of beer, including two thrown by kids no older than 10.

Hey, this crap happens but I've seen Mexicans start trouble at World Cup matches which is an awfully tough thing to do considering what those crowds are made up of.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on June 23, 2011, 11:20:58 PM
Would be nice if somehow the US got out of CONCACAF and into CONMEBOL. Obviously would be more difficult to make the World Cup every cycle but in the long run it would be better for US Soccer and we wouldnt have to deal with playing on high school quality pitches like we do when we play at some of the CONCACAF minnows.
This is already planned for---when then next global ice age hits and most americans are forced to move to South America to survive, the North American federation,CONCACAF will be merged  into CONMEBOL, the South American federation. lol
Until then, however, the USA is not real popular, given our historical manipulations of govt and business in many of the CONMEBOL countries, and we're opposed by the current Bolivarian movements in most of them:
Argentina,
Bolivia,
Brazil,
Chile,
Colombia,
Ecuador,
Paraguay,
Peru,
Uruguay, and
Venezuela
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on June 25, 2011, 02:49:22 PM
ESPNs preview of todays game:
http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/columnist/carlisle_jeff/id/6698248/us-vs-mexico-tale-tape-jeff-carlisle-soccer
This is an important marker of both programs--Bradley knows to start Donovan, and begin play with greater intensity...I hope.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 25, 2011, 05:32:53 PM
ESPNs preview of todays game:
http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/columnist/carlisle_jeff/id/6698248/us-vs-mexico-tale-tape-jeff-carlisle-soccer
This is an important marker of both programs--Bradley knows to start Donovan, and begin play with greater intensity...I hope.

Interesting to see.

There's really only Donovan off the bench to change the game. As much as I want Freddy to continue upward, you're not sure if he'll bring tonight what he did against Panama. I imagine Bradley's thinking has to come down to where he feels he has a legitimate option in the 65th minute of a 0-0 match that hasn't seen one team dominate play. At that point, other than Donovan, who can take over and work to win it? Guessing he has to stay with what has worked this last week.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on June 25, 2011, 09:52:02 PM
Interesting to see.

There's really only Donovan off the bench to change the game. As much as I want Freddy to continue upward, you're not sure if he'll bring tonight what he did against Panama. I imagine Bradley's thinking has to come down to where he feels he has a legitimate option in the 65th minute of a 0-0 match that hasn't seen one team dominate play. At that point, other than Donovan, who can take over and work to win it? Guessing he has to stay with what has worked this last week.


2-4  in 87th minute....we started fast, but got just sloppy and inattentive on defense...didnt forsee this type of game at all,...we played into Mexico's quick, anxious pop-play style. We played well to 2-1...at which point I wouldve thought we'd slow it and dictate pace more...darn this one.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Jumping Jesuit on June 26, 2011, 12:18:00 AM
I await for the day when the USA will play against Mexico in the USA and it will actually be considered a home game for the USA . . .
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 26, 2011, 04:03:29 AM
I await for the day when the USA will play against Mexico in the USA and it will actually be considered a home game for the USA . . .

I don't know if we'll ever see that day.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: chren21 on June 26, 2011, 07:21:39 AM
I don't know if we'll ever see that day.

That day will come.  But you are right we may never see it, but one of the next generations will.

I'm still sick to my stomache that they blew that.  Why not go with Spector for Steve C.  Then you don't have to go switching up the back line even more.  Sometimes crazy eyes Bradley baffles me.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 26, 2011, 07:33:51 AM
I don't know if we'll ever see that day.


Well, when we played in Columbus...in the winter....for a WC qualifier, wasn't it mostly a home game?

It was like the Dream Team Olympics.  The games were in Barcelona, but the crowd was pro-American for nearly every game.  Soccer isn't yet all that important to most Americans.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 26, 2011, 11:53:13 AM
Get Bob the fu** out of here!!! Cherundolo gets injured, which is unfortunate, and it puts Bob in a tough position. His decision? Bring in Jonathan Bornstein. Are you fu**ing kidding me?! Bornstein hadn't played a single minute in this gold cup.  Every Mexican goal started on his side. They attacked our defensive left consistently. What an embarrassment. Why not bring in Tim Ream and move Bocanegra outside?? And after going down 3-2, we stick with what's not working?? At that point, since you're playing with 3 defenders anyway, why not bring in another attacker and go 3-5-2? This is a game we definitely should have won.

If you wanted this to be a true home game, why not host it in Seattle, or Columbus, or Nashville?
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: PaintTouches on June 26, 2011, 01:16:36 PM
The whole home field advantage thing only matters during world cup qualifying matches and all of those will be either in Columbus or the new stadium in Kansas City. The fact of the matter is that the USSF knows better than to play Mexico in LA, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, or New York (all hosts in this tournament).

However, the USSF had nothing to do with scheduling this game. CONCACAF calls all the shots and the only thing they care about is $$$. 90,000 plus butts in the stands is simply brilliant in their eyes (and pockets). They could care less who buys the tickets.


I see this Mexico team as very very tough to beat. The attack is clicking on all cylinders now that Dos Santos decided to stop being a prima donna. Chicharito is a given but the wingers Guardado and Barrera are basically using the Gold Cup as a tryout for their next team so they will be extra lively.

As for the game itself, I called it before the start of the tourney. The top four is lethal at the moment. I wish CONCACAF would have allowed Mexico to send this team down to the Copa America. I could easily envision Mexico making it to the semis with its full team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: groove on June 26, 2011, 01:44:05 PM
May have been the last game for Bob Bradley. Many different articles on the web today like this one

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/724594-gold-cup-2011-schedule-results-and-latest-news/entry/101787-bob-bradley-post-game-comments-appear-to-spell-doom-for-bob-bradleys-job

Players not defending him. Donovan's statement when asked about Bradley's job, "That is not my concern"
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on June 26, 2011, 06:17:04 PM
We need Jurgen Klinsmann badly, Bob Bradley needs to go.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 26, 2011, 06:55:47 PM
We need Jurgen Klinsmann badly, Bob Bradley needs to go.

never happen. klinsmann will want control over the USSF, which gulati won't do. Gulati needs to go along with Bob.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: caltruda on June 26, 2011, 09:04:52 PM
Klinsmann is more style than substance. Loew has arguably proven to be better for Germany since being promoted after the '06 Cup. Would love to see Gulati make another run at Marco Bielsa (he turned the US down before it re-upped with Bradley), but US Soccer needs to show deep pockets b/c even $3M per might not be enough for El Loco.

Also agree a 3-5-2 would've worked best at halftime, with Edu in the middle of the park to give better coverage to Bradley and Jones since they don't know how to cover for each other. Ironically, the guy the US may have missed the most was Holden to hold the ball and initiate the offense. Lichaj is now a step ahead of Ream and Chandler based on his extensive playing time in this tournament, and the other two have to make up that ground quickly.

Still a team likely to make the World Cup, which says more about the weaknesses of CONCACAF than the strength of the US team. Even if Mexico _ now the favorite _ finishes first in the final qualifying round, it'll be another World Cup no team from the region gets seeded and protected.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2011, 09:41:48 PM
I await for the day when the USA will play against Mexico in the USA and it will actually be considered a home game for the USA . . .

Won't happen, especially here in California and we all know why.  I'm sure this post will be deleted by the mods here.....scary controversial comments....scary.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 27, 2011, 07:42:43 AM
Still a team likely to make the World Cup, which says more about the weaknesses of CONCACAF than the strength of the US team. Even if Mexico _ now the favorite _ finishes first in the final qualifying round, it'll be another World Cup no team from the region gets seeded and protected.


Mexico was seeded for Germany in 2006 I believe.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: groove on June 27, 2011, 08:02:54 AM

Mexico was seeded for Germany in 2006 I believe.

yeah, i remember FIFA changed the formula for seeding the week of the drawing. The previous formula had the US getting seeded. Got to love FIFA politics.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 27, 2011, 08:12:49 AM
Considering our crappy performance, that's probably not a bad thing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: groove on June 27, 2011, 08:14:53 AM
Considering our crappy performance, that's probably not a bad thing.

you're right on that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on June 27, 2011, 04:51:49 PM
Does anyone follow the womens world cup?
My youngest daughter was in club, and HS soccer when she followed the 1999 USA womens team, which was top, with China/Norway....but it seems like, over the last decade the rest of the world has caught up, and theres better womens soccer, now in other countries too--yes?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 27, 2011, 05:30:40 PM
Does anyone follow the womens world cup?
My youngest daughter was in club, and HS soccer when she followed the 1999 USA womens team, which was top, with China/Norway....but it seems like, over the last decade the rest of the world has caught up, and theres better womens soccer, now in other countries too--yes?

I do for sure.  I find women's soccer to be by far the most entertaining of any women's sports (well volleyball is close).  Should be an interesting squad, some intriguing new talent to go with some old standbys like Wambach, Boxx, and the triumphant return of Hope Solo.

Its interesting that Mitts is back on the WC squad.  She missed the last couple of WCs with injuries and now gets her shot despite being old-ish by soccer standards.  She can help Alex Morgan hold down the hottie quotient on the team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 28, 2011, 09:03:33 AM
Does anyone follow the womens world cup?
My youngest daughter was in club, and HS soccer when she followed the 1999 USA womens team, which was top, with China/Norway....but it seems like, over the last decade the rest of the world has caught up, and theres better womens soccer, now in other countries too--yes?

We're still good, but the world is definitely catching up. Brazil and Germany have become truly elite, while in our own confederation even Mexico has improved enough to provide a stern challenge. We will be one of the dark horses for this year's World Cup, but I'm looking forward to watching the women kick off today at 10:45 Central on ESPN. It's our best shot at winning a World Cup, even if it isn't the men's team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on June 28, 2011, 10:12:24 AM
definitely will be watching. I have seen them live in the Hamm,Chastain era and in World cup and it is by far the most exciting women's sport.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 28, 2011, 10:20:58 AM
It's our best shot at winning a World Cup, even if because it isn't the men's team.


Fixed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 28, 2011, 03:10:20 PM
It's our best shot at winning a World Cup, even if it isn't the men's team because Bob Bradley isn't the coach.

My personal feelings about the USA women's national team... I really was a fan, and supported them. Up until the (i can't remember the year) world cup where they would sit on the ball in the opposition's corner to waste time once they had a lead. awful.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 29, 2011, 05:38:45 AM
My personal feelings about the USA women's national team... I really was a fan, and supported them. Up until the (i can't remember the year) world cup where they would sit on the ball in the opposition's corner to waste time once they had a lead. awful.

I know what you mean, but it's not that much different in the men's game. You see that kind of time wasting in every single World Cup. Ghana did it profusely last year once they had the lead in extra time. Brazil did it in the Confederations. Virtually every successful team will use some time-wasting tactics. Once they have a lead, no one is better at killing the clock than Spain simply because they can pass it around the back so well. Time-wasting is like diving, both may be an unfortunate part of the game, but they are still an important part of the game, so you're better off being as good at them as possible.

If Americans had any skill at diving, we could immediately go from being a top-25 type team to a top 10-12 type team. Our staunch refusal in most instances to dive, and our awkward attempts when we do, certainly has us behind the likes of Brazil, Spain, Portugal, and Italy when it comes to level competition.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on June 29, 2011, 04:23:38 PM
I don't know Jones looked pretty adept at diving.  The red card he drew with no contact was impressive.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on June 29, 2011, 04:38:11 PM
I know what you mean, but it's not that much different in the men's game. You see that kind of time wasting in every single World Cup. Ghana did it profusely last year once they had the lead in extra time. Brazil did it in the Confederations. Virtually every successful team will use some time-wasting tactics. Once they have a lead, no one is better at killing the clock than Spain simply because they can pass it around the back so well. Time-wasting is like diving, both may be an unfortunate part of the game, but they are still an important part of the game, so you're better off being as good at them as possible.

If Americans had any skill at diving, we could immediately go from being a top-25 type team to a top 10-12 type team. Our staunch refusal in most instances to dive, and our awkward attempts when we do, certainly has us behind the likes of Brazil, Spain, Portugal, and Italy when it comes to level competition.
Good point. As a regular La Liga watcher, I was stunned at lack of tight marking, blocking, and diving in the play of the USA.
I taught my daughter to dive...and in one game a yellow was held up, only to have the opposing player scream, 'she never touched me."..the card was withdrawn, and I really admired the other girl's sportsmanship. Due to player safety concerns, though, most of my girls trainers and managers discouraged her diving--she loved it, but they'd stop her. Maybe US soccer doesnt teach it...exactly due to injury/liability/safety concerns, of our litigious country...just a guess, here.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 30, 2011, 10:01:00 AM
I taught my daughter to dive...and in one game a yellow was held up, only to have the opposing player scream, 'she never touched me."..the card was withdrawn, and I really admired the other girl's sportsmanship.

This doesn't make sense.  Your daughter dove and drew a yellow, the other girl complained, the card was overturned and as a result you admired the other girl for "sportsmanship"?  That just seems like whining to the refs.  Unless I misread that.

While I don't like diving, especially when it comes to excessive diving like the Italians or players who have no need for it but do it, honestly, to the detriment of the rest of their game (cough Cristiano Ronaldo), but its part of the game.  Its no different that players getting away with travels or stars getting calls in the NBA.  Its stupid, but its part of the game and if you choose not to take advantage, you are at a severe disadvantage.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on June 30, 2011, 11:05:30 AM
My favorite memory was my daughter's Premier League game where the opposing coach was warned about his player diving and at the beginning of the second half she dove in the penalty box. The ref walked over to the coach and produced a red card.
In California we saw a lot of special treatment for one ethnicity. One particluar player,who was a friend of my daughter's and good enough to land a D1 Scholie, was adept at diving in the box. One game we played her team and she was umarked wide left of the box and juking with the ball when she fell down on her own. The ref awarded her a free kick despite the nearest defender being yards off.
And don't get me started about the refereeing in Mexico when we played there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on June 30, 2011, 03:29:24 PM
This doesn't make sense.  Your daughter dove and drew a yellow, the other girl complained, the card was overturned and as a result you admired the other girl for "sportsmanship"?  That just seems like whining to the refs.  Unless I misread that.

Sense to be made from my odd first explanation...The opposing girl was not complaining,...she was acknowledging(screaming) to the ref..that there was no foul, and actually spoke up to the ref to see there wasnt a mistaken yellow issued to my kid...I thought it was cool on her part...does that make better sense?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Keelsmeals on June 30, 2011, 11:05:42 PM
Not related to the other posts, but still futbol talk...

The Development Academy Finals are going to be played in Milwaukee beginning July 9th. If you're not familiar with the Development Academies, they are essentially the training ground for the future national team player pool (and for college and MLS/pro player scouting).

http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Development-Academy/2011/06/All-16-Teams-Set-for-2011-Development-Academy-Finals-Week.aspx

And if you followed the World Cup last year, you probably heard Jay DeMerit's crazy story about how he became a starter for the USMNT. A documentary was made about him, and the filmmakers are trying to raise money for licensing rights so they can distribute the film. MLS teams and the American Outlaws are hosting screenings all over the country and have a website for fundraising if you're so inclined. It's a cool sports story, but it's also a truly inspirational story about perseverance, chasing dreams, and believing in yourself. I think the message has broader appeal than just the soccer community, but hopefully it will benefit US Soccer in the long run.

http://jaydemeritstory.com/
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1370261090/rise-and-shine-the-jay-demerit-story




Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on July 01, 2011, 10:43:10 PM
For a very good review of the state of, and issues facing USA soccer, and especially those on replacing Bradley...you'll enjoy this ESPN piece:
http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6715439/bob-bradley-come-fire-not-easily-replaced-soccer
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on July 14, 2011, 04:17:05 AM
I do for sure.  I find women's soccer to be by far the most entertaining of any women's sports (well volleyball is close).  Should be an interesting squad, some intriguing new talent to go with some old standbys like Wambach, Boxx, and the triumphant return of Hope Solo.

Its interesting that Mitts is back on the WC squad.  She missed the last couple of WCs with injuries and now gets her shot despite being old-ish by soccer standards.  She can help Alex Morgan hold down the hottie quotient on the team.
After the great USA game against Brazil, and the "lets take a long lunch today, and watch USA/France, in the semis"....I hope many, many have joined us in the watching of womens soccer.
Agreeing with you...womens world cup soccer is the most "watchable" womens sport for US males.
Seeing Wambach's  vertical leap heading in the the go ahead goal  off the well placed corner kick was...wow...just plain damn good athletic play...men or women, aside.

I hope yall are getting pumped up. This is fun!!!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on July 14, 2011, 05:50:57 AM
I must say, the women's world cup has been more entertaining than MLS, so I will contiue to watch. I just wish the USMNT had a couple players that could self generate scoring abilities like the ladies.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 14, 2011, 07:59:17 AM
I must say, the women's world cup has been more entertaining than MLS, so I will contiue to watch. I just wish the USMNT had a couple players that could self generate scoring abilities like the ladies.

When I got up this morning, I was watching the highlights again and thought "screw the girls being an inspiration for little girls around the country, how about inspiring the men's team to actually think about winning a competition this big?"

The grit this team possesses is incredible. They were flat out beaten by Brazil. Playing a man down, outplayed most of the second half, only to concede? Once you hit injury team, no one is going to come back from that against a team as good as Brazil (OT: Brazil's women have more creative flair than our men) yet they managed to get that one counter-attack, completely against the run of play, and Rapinoe dropped in an inch-perfect cross for Wambach to finish.

The France game, I was saying all game that one goal wasn't going to be enough, and honestly, we were quite simply outplayed for about 75 minutes. That game reminded me almost exactly of the USA/Spain match in the Confederations. Playing against a team that could outpossess you to death, with perfect passing, and the US could barely get any meaningful possession in France's end. France finished with 55% possession and a 25-11 advantage in shots. Yet we refused to concede the 20 yard area surrounding our goal, which forced France to shoot from range at our world-class keeper. But we made the most of the few chances we got (we scored on more than half our on-target shots) and somehow found a way to get a 2-goal win. God, if that wasn't Spain all over again...

Great wins, really exciting stuff. Can't wait for Sunday, and still can't figure out how/where I'm going to watch it. Supposed to visit a friend at noon (his father is sick) then drive 3 hours up north to see my mom and grandpa. The only thing I can figure is to leave after the USA game at 4, but getting there at 7 is pretty late for a 91-year-old man.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 14, 2011, 09:42:45 AM

The France game, I was saying all game that one goal wasn't going to be enough, and honestly, we were quite simply outplayed for about 75 minutes. That game reminded me almost exactly of the USA/Spain match in the Confederations. Playing against a team that could outpossess you to death, with perfect passing, and the US could barely get any meaningful possession in France's end. France finished with 55% possession and a 25-11 advantage in shots. Yet we refused to concede the 20 yard area surrounding our goal, which forced France to shoot from range at our world-class keeper. But we made the most of the few chances we got (we scored on more than half our on-target shots) and somehow found a way to get a 2-goal win. God, if that wasn't Spain all over again...


I don't know if 75 min is completely fair.  The US came out and dominated early and throughout the most of the first half, despite the French having plenty of chances, the US looked pretty in control.  The possession and shots are deceptive as the US game is predicated on stingy defense and effective counter-attacks.  So even if the US completely outplayed a team, they wouldn't necessarily out possess the opponent.  Spain they are not.

The second half was completely different as I agree we were totally outplayed until Rapinoe came in at the 65th min and started to change things.  She really has been a catalyst for this team on the wing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on July 16, 2011, 01:24:06 AM
Between Title IX providing a great path, and the proliferation of clubs/money/talent (see below), the womens side may well continue to enjoy a better comparative talent pipeline in the USA, than is the case on the mens side.
My daughter came up the programs described in this Hou Chron article:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/soc/7655850.html#finalframe

WC Final is upon us..

Go USA Chicks--Remember Pearl Harbor, and Sink the Japs!..

..hows that for politically incorrect talk. lol
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on July 16, 2011, 07:32:57 AM
Does anyone follow the womens world cup?
My youngest daughter was in club, and HS soccer when she followed the 1999 USA womens team, which was top, with China/Norway....but it seems like, over the last decade the rest of the world has caught up, and theres better womens soccer, now in other countries too--yes?
Have you seen the overnight ratings from the Brazil match?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: groove on July 16, 2011, 09:27:49 AM
Have you seen the overnight ratings from the Brazil match?

Sunday's ratings should be monster.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on July 16, 2011, 07:44:12 PM
Have you seen the overnight ratings from the Brazil match?
yes ....why ask?....its great to see the viewership bump in the usa
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wildbillsb on July 17, 2011, 07:39:34 AM
Soccer America ran a piece entitled "Three Reasons Why the USA will Will the WC."  The three reasons being Wambach, Solo, and  bench strength.  I must disagree with their forecast, as I think Japan is absolutely the finest technical TEAM I have ever seen in women's soccer, and I think their possession skills, precise one-touch passing, and quickness will absolutely make a meal out of the USA's lumbering long ball offense.  I offer three reasons why the US will lose this game:  our #7, our #10, and our shaky back line.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 🏀 on July 17, 2011, 09:36:31 AM
Soccer America ran a piece entitled "Three Reasons Why the USA will Will the WC."  The three reasons being Wambach, Solo, and  bench strength.  I must disagree with their forecast, as I think Japan is absolutely the finest technical TEAM I have ever seen in women's soccer, and I think their possession skills, precise one-touch passing, and quickness will absolutely make a meal out of the USA's lumbering long ball offense.  I offer three reasons why the US will lose this game:  our #7, our #10, and our shaky back line.

Hating on 'Merica? Terrorist.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on July 17, 2011, 10:51:15 AM
Soccer America ran a piece entitled "Three Reasons Why the USA will Will the WC."  The three reasons being Wambach, Solo, and  bench strength.  I must disagree with their forecast, as I think Japan is absolutely the finest technical TEAM I have ever seen in women's soccer, and I think their possession skills, precise one-touch passing, and quickness will absolutely make a meal out of the USA's lumbering long ball offense.  I offer three reasons why the US will lose this game:  our #7, our #10, and our shaky back line.
Your points on Japan on paper strengths, and USA on paper weakness, esp on their lack of ball/pace control, are well taken. Its odd...but watching them (USA)play, this is a unique team in its calmness, fortitude...and in finding a way to win...despite all. Its an intangible, which may be the key, especially in the adrenalin of a champ game.
This seems to be a classic "thats why they play the game" contest, and I'll go with my gut...USA.

BTW, overlooked in the hype of Solo, Wambach and Cheney, will be the key midfield play of Houston's Rachel Buehler--she will offset Sawa, more than many realize.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wildbillsb on July 17, 2011, 01:38:03 PM
Hating on 'Merica? Terrorist.

I would hope not, my friend.  Both sides have incredible story lines. For openers, Hope Solo's odyssey to this point in her life, let alone her career, is the stuff of which legends are made.  Talk about overcoming incredible personal and family barriers, to become one of the finest goalkeepers in the world..  Yikes!  Then I look at the Japanese, and the turmoil their nation has undergone in the last five months.  What's not to like about their resiliency?  I really want both teams to win, but alas.....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hoopaloop on July 17, 2011, 05:28:40 PM
Very unfortunate ending, but you could sense when it went to PK's the girls were done.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on July 17, 2011, 08:18:02 PM
Blew it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 18, 2011, 07:02:57 AM
Very unfortunate ending, but you could sense when it went to PK's the girls were done.

Exactly right. It was almost exactly like the Brazil game. When that equalizer went in in extra time, you just knew that Japan had it (just like you knew the USA had the shootout against Brazil). Really crappy feeling. I was at Highbury watching, and the air just went out of the place when Japan scored their second. There was an AP photog there as well, unfortunately the only pics showing up are the ones of everyone looking depressed. But there was plenty of joy to go along with that depression, wish they showed that too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on July 18, 2011, 07:20:00 AM
Bummer.
I have watched Rachel Buehler play in most of her early soccer life, in Houston(she is my daughter, Rachel's age--they whupped us often, lol). Rachel B.  has been so talented, it seemed she could pull off anything she'd try.
Whether it was that hubris..overplaying to compensate for her red card sit out during france game, or just the adrenalin of the game...she knew better than to try to cross/clear in front of the goal...that ball shouldve been pushed off the end line. Tough mistake. I Agree it seemed to deflate us, and give Japan confidence/momentum.
Still an entertaining game.
Congrats to Japan...asia's first WC winner.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 18, 2011, 08:19:24 AM
It was a remarkable final. Had they won in penalties, it would have been talked about in the US for a long time.

A shame, but it was football karma US was dominated for 60 minutes by France and won. This time they dominated play and lost.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: IAmMarquette on July 18, 2011, 08:56:48 PM
One of the more entertaining matches I've seen. And I must say, the lack of theatrics (relative to most men's matches) was quite refreshing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on July 19, 2011, 11:37:38 AM
Reinko---thanks again, from all of us,  for the permanent futbol thread..

..whenever the thread position begins to age and drop, any of us should post anything out there current on soccer news, to keep it near the top in superbar, as

...futbol deserves the similar revered status of the Beer thread, and of the NL central thread
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on July 20, 2011, 06:40:03 AM
Reinko---thanks again, from all of us,  for the permanent futbol thread..

..whenever the thread position begins to age and drop, any of us should post anything out there current on soccer news, to keep it near the top in superbar, as

...futbol deserves the similar revered status of the Beer thread, and of the NL central thread

No doubt...

On the lighter side of things...involving both the MKE and futbol.

http://deadspin.com/5822884/radio-broadcaster-who-looks-freakishly-like-tim-howard-bumps-into-tim-howard
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 21, 2011, 02:13:10 PM
One of the more entertaining matches I've seen. And I must say, the lack of theatrics (relative to most men's matches) was quite refreshing.

Amen. It's rare that you watch a game, especially of that magnitude, and aren't irritated at least a bit by time-wasting, diving, or bad officiating. As disappointing as the end result was, it was an excellent and undoubtedly fairly played match.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BubbaWilliams on July 21, 2011, 02:30:01 PM
Soccer is terrible. Especially women's soccer. While I do admire their hard work and dedication, I could care less about that sport. For all of you who stick up for it, think before you speak. Apply all of those arguments you are going to make to the WNBA, NCAAWBB, and women's olympic basketball. I can wager that you do not feel the same about those sports as you do for the women's soccer team. The ONLY reason some of you watch it is becasue women socccer players are more attractive than the women basketball players. Don't get me wrong, I admire these women's hustle and dedication along with their patriotism. But oh man, is that soprt boring.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BubbaWilliams on July 21, 2011, 02:32:13 PM
Also, I will now put the U.S. women's soccer team in my group of chokers. They missed what, three penalty kicks? Thats choking
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 21, 2011, 02:57:17 PM
The great thing about the Internet is you never have a shortage of idiots. BRMU23, take your bow!

You may not appreciate the beautiful game, but I find it ironic any time someone calls the sport boring. Just goes to show they don't pay attention to what they watch. The same people call American football "exciting". Never mind that there are 40 seconds passing between 3-5 second gaps of actual action, and with commercials added in, you end up with less than 15 minutes of actual action in a 3-hour game, whereas soccer packs 90+ minutes of actual action into 2 hours.

Personally, I enjoy great competition, regardless of gender. I love watching Britney Griner because she's one of the most dominant basketball players I've ever seen. I don't watch any WNBA, but I don't watch much NBA either. I probably watched more NCAA WBB than I did NBA this past year, and it's not because I find Angel Robinson hot.

I watched the WWC because I love the game. I watched 1999 for the same reason. It's also why I watch the WC, EPL, Championship, La Liga, Seria A, and MLS. No, I don't watch much pro women's soccer, but I honestly have never seen a game on during my channel-flipping. And I loved watching Rapinoe and Wambach. How can that be? They're not hot.

Go back to the "excitement" of dull sports like American football and Baseball. Not our fault you can't keep up with a sport that has as many minutes of action as it has minutes played.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on July 21, 2011, 02:59:14 PM
Soccer is terrible. Especially women's soccer. While I do admire their hard work and dedication, I could care less about that sport. For all of you who stick up for it, think before you speak. Apply all of those arguments you are going to make to the WNBA, NCAAWBB, and women's olympic basketball. I can wager that you do not feel the same about those sports as you do for the women's soccer team. The ONLY reason some of you watch it is becasue women socccer players are more attractive than the women basketball players. Don't get me wrong, I admire these women's hustle and dedication along with their patriotism. But oh man, is that soprt boring.

How original.  Now move along, I'm glad you wasted 3 minutes of your life typing that out and getting it off your chest.  Feel better?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BubbaWilliams on July 21, 2011, 03:10:05 PM
Who said anything about me liking American football? I'm a hockey fan. And also, I have watched professional "futbol" games in Rome and Madrid. Better than any soccer game you will find here. It’s not for me, I'm sorry. Brewcity, I guess I'm an idiot for having an opinion in a public forum. And how can you call it "action." It’s a bunch of sissies running around for over an hour with about 11 seconds of actual excitement. "I hurt my ankle, we need a rest, he was offsides, wah wah wah." If I want that, I'll babysit my nieces and nephews more. They also run around for hours without tiring. And Reinko, really? I'm unoriginal, ok. I'm sorry I can't be as original and clever as you. Someone of your brain function must find it a curse instead of a blessing because all of the ignorant people can't join you on your pedestal.  This is a public forum and that is my opinion. No one in America except a small minority talks about soccer when the world cup is not going on.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BubbaWilliams on July 21, 2011, 03:20:44 PM
I love watching Britney Griner

WOW
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BobWildLoyalist on July 21, 2011, 03:24:38 PM
Soccer is the worst sport on the planet. No action, a bunch of bitching and fake injuries. what other sport would tolerate that many horribly fake injuries? America hates soccer, its a fact. every 4 years when the world cup rolls around everyone tries to act like they are big soccer fans. Soccer is nothing to get excited about.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on July 21, 2011, 03:25:08 PM
And Reinko, really? I'm unoriginal, ok. I'm sorry I can't be as original and clever as you. Someone of your brain function must find it a curse instead of a blessing because all of the ignorant people can't join you on your pedestal.  This is a public forum and that is my opinion. No one in America except a small minority talks about soccer when the world cup is not going on.

Yes you are unoriginal.   You sound like every other person who hates on soccer, thus your arguments are unoriginal.  And yes, it is a curse.  And yes I like my pedestal, it's awesome up here.  

Truth, this is a public forum, and I never said you were not entitled to it, but what I find hard to grasp is the innate feeling some folks get when they see some like minded folks talking about something they care about in a positive way, in this case soccer, certain personalities feel the need to come in and blast away.  

And your original post was barely an opinion, it was a condemnation, and if anything you threw the first bomb by saying "think before you speak", how is that respecting someones opinion?  Now if you want to lay out the reasons why you think soccer is terrible, go right ahead.

If you have something truly to add to this conversation, we welcome it.  If not, get lost.  And if you want to just draw attention to yourself by posting crap like this because your real life is not fulfilling enough, thus you have escape to the internet to draw the ire of others, good luck in life my friend.  
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on July 21, 2011, 03:26:43 PM
Soccer is the worst sport on the planet. No action, a bunch of bitching and fake injuries. what other sport would tolerate that many horribly fake injuries? America hates soccer, its a fact. every 4 years when the world cup rolls around everyone tries to act like they are big soccer fans. Soccer is nothing to get excited about.

Yeah no flopping in basketball or guys pretending to get hit by balls in baseball.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BobWildLoyalist on July 21, 2011, 03:32:45 PM
Yeah no flopping in basketball or guys pretending to get hit by balls in baseball.

There is no extra time added in either game. And you don't see guys pretending to be hit as much as those little girls fall down in soccer
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on July 21, 2011, 03:36:07 PM
There is no extra time added in either game. And you don't see guys pretending to be hit as much as those little girls fall down in soccer

They fact about extra time, has nothing to do with argument.  Please explain.  And you realize extra time is also added for players delaying the game in other ways, balls out of bounds, arguing with the ref...

Prove the 2nd part.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: swoopem on July 21, 2011, 03:38:30 PM
Brewcity, your saying that you like watching womens sports better than the NFL? I have never once heard that from a human being before, much less an American. I'm not knocking you for your style, its just a little bizarre. Personally I think womens soccer is not entertaining at all and if we didn't make it to the World Cup finals then there would not have been a single thought of womens soccer enter my brain. Men's soccer on the other hand I do enjoy and try to follow it as much as I can, maybe 2014 will be our year...USA  USA USA

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BubbaWilliams on July 21, 2011, 03:40:47 PM
Its huge news when someone pretends to get hit in baseball when the ball doesn't touch them. Also, when a basketball player takes a charge, they don't writhe on the ground im agony, tears streaming down their face (well, everyon but Chris Bosh). And Reinko, the reason I bash that sport is becasue it sucks. My life is plenty fulfilling as well. The reason I post is because I busted my hump to get good grades at MU and now I havea cushy job which gives me free time. You guys may be right, I don't see the neauty of the game. You know what, I don't see the beauty in a chess match either. Its women's soccer. The only reason any "sports" fans watched it was in hopes that someone would take off their shirt again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on July 21, 2011, 03:43:39 PM
There is no extra time added in either game. And you don't see guys pretending to be hit as much as those little girls fall down in soccer

I will pull back on my baseball comment...but c'mon.  The NBA owns the world in complaining, flopping, and crying to the refs.
(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50252_104879212888454_2296_n.jpg)
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2010/writers/ian_thomsen/09/24/technicals/kobe-complain.jpg)
(http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/nbacry.jpg)
(http://www.thesportssession.net/wp-content/themes/Magazine/thumb.php?src=http://www.thesportssession.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/bilde.jpg&w=638&zc=1&q=80&bid=1)
(http://www.realclearsports.com/blognetwork/rcs_sidelines/Dwight%20Howard%20complains.jpg)
(http://menversus.com/images/content/wfSxzSRRXWreaction.jpg)
(http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/278/957/57618965_display_image.jpg?1277910907)
(http://www.france24.com/en/files/imagecache/aef_ct_wire_image/images/afp/photo_1287710655031-1-0.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 21, 2011, 03:45:22 PM
BRMU23, if it's not for you, then why'd you bother posting in here? To question others' loyalty to the sport? How is that constuctive? How is telling someone you don't know what they think and why they think it anything short of presumptuous and idiotic? And you say "think before you speak". Ironic, much? As far as a small minority, who gives a crap? I'm proud to be in that minority, and I could care less what ignorant jags like you think. If you aren't part of said minority, why did you even enter this thread? The ONLY possible reason is because you're a troll. So go away, troll.

And ssmp, yeah, no fake injuries or diving in basketball, are there. Have you even HEARD of the NBA? And I'm pretty sure baseball is the only sport that puts guys on the DL with phantom injuries just to make room on their roster. Happens all the time. Another useless Internet troll. Go back under your bridge.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BubbaWilliams on July 21, 2011, 03:47:30 PM
ok. but yuo left D Wade off of there.. He is the biggest complainer of them all.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on July 21, 2011, 03:54:53 PM
ok. but yuo left D Wade off of there.. He is the biggest complainer of them all.

Noted.

(http://theassociation.blogs.com/the_association/200702220938.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 21, 2011, 04:10:27 PM
And ssmp, yeah, no fake injuries or diving in basketball, are there. Have you even HEARD of the NBA? And I'm pretty sure baseball is the only sport that puts guys on the DL with phantom injuries just to make room on their roster. Happens all the time. Another useless Internet troll. Go back under your bridge.

I enjoy soccer, but there's simply no defending the diving/fake injury antics of the sport at its highest levels. Even the worst flopping is the NBA - which admittedly is distasteful - pales in comparison to some of buffoonery on the pitch.
The players, of course, deserve most of the blame for this. But some must also go to the atrocious officiating, caused in no small part by a system that expects one often middle-aged man to keep up with 22 of the finest athletes in the world on a playing surface larger than a football field. Even the NHL was smart enough to realize it was a job too big for one official.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 21, 2011, 05:02:16 PM
I'll be the first to admit diving is part of the game, and honestly, I wish the Americans were better at it. We are at a severe disadvantage because many if our players refuse to dive, and those that do are incompetent at it. And the simple truth is that while it's cheating, cheating is a part of all sports at all levels. Whether it's Vancouver cheap shots in the Stanley Cup Finals, or the holding that happens during every NFL play, or the acting that goes on in soccer or basketball, or foreign substances on bats and balls in baseball, or NASCAR teams trying to get away with illegal structural changes to make their cars lighter, there's not a sport where this stuff doesn't happen. For some reason, people in this country get more worked up about the cheating in soccer than they do in other sports, even though it's no more prevalent. Hell, we complain about legal time-wasting tactics (that might have won the US women the WC) but don't bat an eye when the QB takes a knee. It's hypocritical. Yes, rules are broken and infractions are missed. It happens in every game of every major sport in existence.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 21, 2011, 05:11:49 PM
I'll be the first to admit diving is part of the game, and honestly, I wish the Americans were better at it. We are at a severe disadvantage because many if our players refuse to dive, and those that do are incompetent at it. And the simple truth is that while it's cheating, cheating is a part of all sports at all levels. Whether it's Vancouver cheap shots in the Stanley Cup Finals, or the holding that happens during every NFL play, or the acting that goes on in soccer or basketball, or foreign substances on bats and balls in baseball, or NASCAR teams trying to get away with illegal structural changes to make their cars lighter, there's not a sport where this stuff doesn't happen. For some reason, people in this country get more worked up about the cheating in soccer than they do in other sports, even though it's no more prevalent. Hell, we complain about legal time-wasting tactics (that might have won the US women the WC) but don't bat an eye when the QB takes a knee. It's hypocritical. Yes, rules are broken and infractions are missed. It happens in every game of every major sport in existence.

You've somewhat missed the point.
It's not the diving that bothers me. That, or some version thereof, happens in every sport (flopping on a charge in hoops, Derek Jeter pretending to be hit by a pitch, drawing a pass intereference, etc.).
What bothers me, and I suspect plenty of other American soccer fans, is the minutes writhing on the ground in obviously fake agony. That's hardly comparable to any of the forms of cheating - some of which aren't cheating at all - you describe above. I mean, faking an injury vs. hitting a guy late in a hockey game aren't exactly analagous, are they?

So, in review:
Diving to gain competitive advantage = generally acceptable.
Acting as if one's privates were just caught in a grizzly bear trap following a minor collision = not acceptable.

p.s. I'm rather glad the Americans aren't good at pretending to be injured. If they lose, at least they're losing with integrity.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 21, 2011, 05:20:59 PM
I'm a hockey fan. "I hurt my ankle, we need a rest, he was offsides, wah wah wah." If I want that, I'll babysit my nieces and nephews more. They also run around for hours without tiring.

How do you mock "we need a rest" followed up with "they run around for hours without tiring"?? and what does running around "not getting tired" have to do with the sport being boring or a "Terrible" sport?

You're a hockey fan and you're going to mock the offsides rule? Don't you guys have that too?

I'll take the flopping in soccer any day over fighting in hockey. At least the flopping comes in the run of play and isn't some meaningless aside.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 21, 2011, 05:22:38 PM
When it's something like Brazilian defender Erika writhing after being hit by a mystery sniper, only to bounce back up as soon as she hits the endline, I agree. But that's far from an every-match occurrence, and just as bad is happening in the NBA with about the same frequency, especially come playoff time. I may not like it, but that's a lot easier for me to watch than NFL games being played for 5 seconds, then taking 40 seconds off, then another 7 seconds, repeat ad nauseum.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 21, 2011, 05:34:41 PM
I agree with much of the pro-soccer statements said thus far.  I will say this, in defense of some of the extended "injury time".  Soccer, at the highest levels, is a physical game with only the minimum of padding.  There are some pretty rough collisions, cleats flying, high speed running.  I took plenty of shots in club and high school games that had me on the ground for a bit to regain myself.  Is it exaggerated?  Sure, especially by some players at certain times.  Does it make all players that do it pansies?  Absolutely not, except in the eyes of soccer haters.

In terms of women's soccer, I actually really enjoy watching it.  Ive had the discussion with multiple people that with the exception of maybe volleyball, its the closest in action and intensity to its male counterpart.  Its not like the WNBA with less high flying and athleticism and its not like, say, women's hockey with slower speeds and no checking.  The action flows very similarly and the game works in many of the same ways.  I had no problem watching my HS' girls team play, but I would rather cut grass than watch the girl's basketball team.  I even reasoned that I would rather watch a women's soccer game than a meaningless midseason Cubs-Diamondbacks matchup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 21, 2011, 05:36:06 PM
When it's something like Brazilian defender Erika writhing after being hit by a mystery sniper, only to bounce back up as soon as she hits the endline, I agree. But that's far from an every-match occurrence, and just as bad is happening in the NBA with about the same frequency, especially come playoff time. I may not like it, but that's a lot easier for me to watch than NFL games being played for 5 seconds, then taking 40 seconds off, then another 7 seconds, repeat ad nauseum.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree here. Because I watch plenty of EPL - considered one of the rougher leagues out there, mind you - and flopping in false agony is indeed an every-match occurrence. Heck, it's an every 10 minutes occurrence. Either that or footballers are born with ridiculoulsy sensitive, yet quick to recover, nerve endings. How else does one explain the unbearable pain followed shortly by full speed runs?
And yeah, it's far worse than anything in the NBA. Even Chris Bosh doesn't call out the trainers every time he flops. And I don't recall a single time Vlade Divac needed a stretcher to make it off the court, only to return unscathed 90 seconds later.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 21, 2011, 05:39:14 PM
You're a hockey fan and you're going to mock the offsides rule? Don't you guys have that too?

You do realize, don't you, that hockey off sides is very different from soccer offsides?
Heck, why not just toss in football offsides?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on July 21, 2011, 08:14:58 PM
Brewcity, your saying that you like watching womens sports better than the NFL? I have never once heard that from a human being before, much less an American. I'm not knocking you for your style, its just a little bizarre. Personally I think womens soccer is not entertaining at all and if we didn't make it to the World Cup finals then there would not have been a single thought of womens soccer enter my brain. Men's soccer on the other hand I do enjoy and try to follow it as much as I can, maybe 2014 will be our year...USA  USA USA


I like watching womens sports more than the NFL and im an American. Watching an NFL game is at times intolerable. There is about 4 seconds of action on each play and then they stand around for about 4 minutes doing nothing while Bud Light has a flashing ad across the screen every 10 seconds. American football is one of the most boring sports known to man.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 🏀 on July 21, 2011, 08:22:40 PM
I like watching womens sports more than the NFL and im an American. Watching an NFL game is at times intolerable. There is about 4 seconds of action on each play and then they stand around for about 4 minutes doing nothing while Bud Light has a flashing ad across the screen every 10 seconds. American football is one of the most boring sports known to man.

Totally unlike the 80+ minutes of jogging and passing in soccer. With 8 to 10 minutes of actual action to keep you entertained.

I feel like soccer is very similar to NASCAR. The few good moments will be on Sportscenter, so who the hell cares?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on July 21, 2011, 08:46:58 PM
Totally unlike the 80+ minutes of jogging and passing in soccer. With 8 to 10 minutes of actual action to keep you entertained.

I feel like soccer is very similar to NASCAR. The few good moments will be on Sportscenter, so who the hell cares?
Number 1, nascar isnt a sport. Number 2, you cant tell me that there is more action in American football than real football, thats an absolute joke. There is only 1 break in a real football game and the rest consists of constant action and effort. Not to mention real football players are actual athletes unlike the 600 lb linemen that can barely walk and they end up dying when theyre 50 years old because theyre too fat and out of shape to even sustain life. And by the way the entire world cares about real football if u werent aware.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: swoopem on July 22, 2011, 08:14:55 AM
Joe Smith did you grow up in a state without a football team or something or do you not like the contact and hitting that real men in the NFL entertain millions with every sunday. I'm assuming you are going to come back at me with "real men? soccer players run a total of 8 miles for 90 minutes non stop". My response to that would be congratulations to them, maybe they should run the Boston Marathon (another thing I could care less about" As Kenny Powers once said "I play real sports, not try to be the best at exercising". Like I mentioned before I do enjoy men's soccer (not womens), but it doesnt even come close to real Football (notice the spelling). And to the person who claimed there is cheating and diving in every sport, what about golf? The biggest controvesy to come out of that sport was when Tiger hauked a loogie and someone's ball rolled over it. Oh no!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 🏀 on July 22, 2011, 08:27:31 AM
Number 1, nascar isnt a sport. Number 2, you cant tell me that there is more action in American football than real football, thats an absolute joke. There is only 1 break in a real football game and the rest consists of constant action and effort. Not to mention real football players are actual athletes unlike the 600 lb linemen that can barely walk and they end up dying when theyre 50 years old because theyre too fat and out of shape to even sustain life. And by the way the entire world cares about real football if u werent aware.

Typical soccer fan rebuttal.

Breaks don't constitute action. Neither does passing the soccer ball around for 90 minutes either.

Like I said before, no one cares about soccer. If the rest of the world does, good for them. This is 'Merica.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BubbaWilliams on July 22, 2011, 08:28:41 AM
And by the way the entire world cares about real football if u werent aware.
Yeah, the rest of the world hates America. You wan't to group yourself with them, go ahead, commie.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BobWildLoyalist on July 22, 2011, 08:41:32 AM
JoeSmith1721. Canada hates soccer. Fact.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on July 22, 2011, 09:14:38 AM
I am a lifelong fan of soccer. Recent posters are not. So what.
My wife is not a serious fan of any sport. We dont debate or question each other for our differing preferences.
Tell me of the merit or reasons why fans of different sports would engage in any debate over this. By definition being a fan is subjective...there is no objective discussion that would alter another one's subjectitivity. I am not changing my wife's mind, nor she mine. Youre not going to change my fandom, and Im not planning on trying to change yours. That seems fair to me.
Posters invaded this thread to try to engage...I dont see any reason to do so...and I simply congratulate, and respect them for the sports they enjoy. If they choose not reciprocate...so what.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BubbaWilliams on July 22, 2011, 09:24:48 AM
The point is we need college basketball back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BobWildLoyalist on July 22, 2011, 09:37:21 AM
College basketball? Women's shuffle board is just starting up!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 22, 2011, 09:39:36 AM
What I find so irritating is there's a thread for people that enjoy soccer to discuss it, and the haters can't help but come in and sh*t on it.

We get it. Now move on.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on July 22, 2011, 09:48:13 AM
What I find so irritating is there's a thread for people that enjoy soccer to discuss it, and the haters can't help but come in and sh*t on it.

We get it. Now move on.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 22, 2011, 09:55:14 AM
Exactly.

But dude!  Hating on soccer and calling it boring and for pansies makes you totally manly and cool brah!  Its the American way!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on July 22, 2011, 10:06:25 AM
But dude!  Hating on soccer and calling it boring and for pansies makes you totally manly and cool brah!  Its the American way!

I mean, it's not like fans of teams outside the NL Central are constantly going into that thread to talk about what a sh!t division it is (Brewers fan here, by the way).

OK, done complaining.  Anyone going to the Manchester United-Fire game tomorrow?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BobWildLoyalist on July 22, 2011, 10:24:44 AM
But dude!  Hating on soccer and calling it boring and for pansies makes you totally manly and cool brah!  Its the American way!

Nice, thanks! i am glad someone is on our side. How much you putting up these days? I Cant wait to have a frat snack after work. Buddies for life..brah
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BubbaWilliams on July 22, 2011, 10:51:41 AM
Its true, soccer fans and frat boys like to pop their collar. Isn't that right, Sugar Shane Brosley?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on July 22, 2011, 10:52:36 AM
Brewcity, I guess I'm an idiot

If you say so.

And Reinko, really? I'm unoriginal, ok. I'm sorry I can't be as original and clever as you. Someone of your brain function must find it a curse instead of a blessing because all of the ignorant people can't join you on your pedestal.

You'd be more original if you and phan stopped parroting each other.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BubbaWilliams on July 22, 2011, 10:57:28 AM
Whatever, Phan and I just find it funny that you soccer nerds are letting out years of frustration. I don't like soccer, I said my peace and people atacked me. Just becasue I played real sports doesn't mean you need to be jealous. Years of bullying from guys like me have made yuo all bitter. sheesh.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BubbaWilliams on July 22, 2011, 11:00:03 AM
Whoo hooo! Lets start a chant!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftlfPb0gyxI
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BobWildLoyalist on July 22, 2011, 11:01:21 AM
Brmu was  collegiate athlete at one time. He was one of the best rugby players east of the Mississippi. He has the biggest calves in North America and is the fastest drinker on the southside of Chicago. RESPECT.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BubbaWilliams on July 22, 2011, 11:03:51 AM
Thank you Phan. I try
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ringout on July 22, 2011, 11:16:20 AM
Brmu was  collegiate athlete at one time. He was one of the best rugby players east of the Mississippi. He has the biggest calves in North America and is the fastest drinker on the southside of Chicago. RESPECT.

My sister played rugby......really, she did.   ;D

Isn't rugby just tackle soccer, with alot of drinking involved?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on July 22, 2011, 03:08:46 PM
The point is we need college basketball back.
Then go to one of the millions of basketball forums we have on this site. Don't come to the only soccer forum to bash soccer for no reason at all.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Wareagle on July 22, 2011, 03:49:46 PM
I mean, it's not like fans of teams outside the NL Central are constantly going into that thread to talk about what a sh!t division it is (Brewers fan here, by the way).

OK, done complaining.  Anyone going to the Manchester United-Fire game tomorrow?

I'm going to the Barca ManU game in DC. Can't wait.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on July 22, 2011, 04:19:10 PM
I mean, it's not like fans of teams outside the NL Central are constantly going into that thread to talk about what a sh!t division it is (Brewers fan here, by the way).

OK, done complaining.  Anyone going to the Manchester United-Fire game tomorrow?
I'll be there, hopefully it will be a little more competitive than the Man u vs Seattle game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on July 26, 2011, 07:11:14 AM
It will be "neat" for anyone who gets to see FC Barcelona on their USA tour of friendlies, but it wont be Messi. lol
He'll rest after the Copa America matches.

 http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6801789/lionel-messi-not-part-barcelona-3-match-usa-trip

BTW, Messi and Xavi of Barca, and Ronaldo of Real, are the finalists for best player in Europe award...just another reason to never miss an "El Clasico" match between them.

History buffs may also enjoy the side story that Real had been the facist Franco establishment favorite, and Franco actually executed the pro socialist head of the much hated FC Barca team, (FC was on Franco's list of organizations to be purged, after he took over in '36), and ever since...
...the game has the ongoing overtone of the wealthy powerful monied Madrid establishment vs the people's skill based sharing of the wealth style of FC Barca....Every Classico is a regular re-enactment of the Spanish Civil War...on turf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cl%C3%A1sico
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on July 26, 2011, 08:35:31 AM
It will be "neat" for anyone who gets to see FC Barcelona on their USA tour of friendlies, but it wont be Messi. lol
He'll rest after the Copa America matches.

 http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6801789/lionel-messi-not-part-barcelona-3-match-usa-trip

BTW, Messi and Xavi of Barca, and Ronaldo of Real, are the finalists for best player in Europe award...just another reason to never miss an "El Clasico" match between them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cl%C3%A1sico

I will venture in some La Liga this year, been predominately an EPL guy.  Speaking of EPL, favorite teams everyone?

Toffee supporter here...

(http://www.ofpedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Everton_logo.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 26, 2011, 08:43:55 AM
My EPL team isn't in the EPL anymore. Supporting a Championship team is a pain in the ass in this country.

(http://www.readingfc.co.uk/javaImages/a3/59/0,,10306~6248867,00.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 26, 2011, 09:27:15 AM
My EPL team isn't in the EPL anymore. Supporting a Championship team is a pain in the ass in this country.

(http://www.readingfc.co.uk/javaImages/a3/59/0,,10306~6248867,00.jpg)

ha - I actually had a friend convince me to root for Reading, which was fun for one season.  I even have a Reading scarf and everything.  But yeah, since they got relegated, I've been searching for a new premiership team.

/kinda/ settled on Tottenham last year.  Still searching, though, and I mostly just keep track of Americans and how they perform.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 26, 2011, 09:46:21 AM
Always been a Liverpool supporter myself.  It was primarily player based as I really looked up to Michael Owen when I was in middle school and then Gerrard, Torres, some of my fav players in the world have always played for Liverpool.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on July 26, 2011, 10:13:37 AM
Always been a Liverpool supporter myself.  It was primarily player based as I really looked up to Michael Owen when I was in middle school and then Gerrard, Torres, some of my fav players in the world have always played for Liverpool.

From an Everton supporter

(http://www.stomp.com.sg/starblog/images/nadia/mccain_snarl.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 26, 2011, 02:56:23 PM
Liverpool supporter as well. Can't wait for the season to start. First time in years I've had some real optimism.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on July 26, 2011, 03:17:00 PM
Liverpool supporter as well. Can't wait for the season to start. First time in years I've had some real optimism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/gallery/2011/jul/26/the-gallery-liverpool-bulging-midfield

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 26, 2011, 03:34:23 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/gallery/2011/jul/26/the-gallery-liverpool-bulging-midfield

Ha, saw that earlier. My favorite was the "This is Midfield" one.

No doubt there will be sales/loans to trim it, but it's nice to have some depth.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 26, 2011, 03:50:35 PM
Gunners.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 26, 2011, 04:12:26 PM
Wow...surprised there aren't any Mancs. Every time I go to Highbury it feels like nothing but United supporters. I mean, I love the guys as friends and all, but my lord I've more than had my fill of United chants in the ears.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 26, 2011, 04:29:07 PM
Wow...surprised there aren't any Mancs. Every time I go to Highbury it feels like nothing but United supporters. I mean, I love the guys as friends and all, but my lord I've more than had my fill of United chants in the ears.

You befriended those guys? You must be a saint.

They pretty much keep me from going there during the season. Especially with three HD channels with the matches now. Not worth the annoyance.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: PaintTouches on July 27, 2011, 01:04:14 AM
Cottagers all the way...to 8th place in the table. I know Fulham will never win anything of great importance, but I love me some Whites.

And I hate to be THAT guy, but I have to admit I am somewhat of a Man U fan. Somewhat because I root for Chicharito more than anything, but obviously by rooting for Hernandez I am rooting for the Red Devils.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on July 27, 2011, 08:32:42 AM
Gunners.


+1 Same here.


I figured when I started following EPL if I became a fan of Man U or Chelsea I would be labeled a front runner.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 27, 2011, 09:47:59 AM
You befriended those guys? You must be a saint.

They pretty much keep me from going there during the season. Especially with three HD channels with the matches now. Not worth the annoyance.

Prior to the Man U-Chicago Fire, the RedEye here in Chicago (free morning paper) had a 2 page article on Man U supporters and their "diehard" fanship.  It was funny to read all these people basically attempted to create euphemisms for the fact that they are frontrunners.  If you are under 30, born and raised in the US, don't give me that crap about loving the history and pagentry of Man U.  Blah.

Another fun game, find a Man U fan that is a baseball fan as well and attempt to have him explain why rooting for Man U is any different than rooting for the Yankees.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on July 27, 2011, 10:16:01 AM
Prior to the Man U-Chicago Fire, the RedEye here in Chicago (free morning paper) had a 2 page article on Man U supporters and their "diehard" fanship.  It was funny to read all these people basically attempted to create euphemisms for the fact that they are frontrunners.  If you are under 30, born and raised in the US, don't give me that crap about loving the history and pagentry of Man U.  Blah.

Another fun game, find a Man U fan that is a baseball fan as well and attempt to have him explain why rooting for Man U is any different than rooting for the Yankees.

I'm fine with being labeled a frontrunner.  All my teams here kinda suck, with the exception of the Packers.  But I started following United in 1991 (I was 6) when the old Sports Channel would show condensed games and highlights from the First Division.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 27, 2011, 11:11:31 AM
You befriended those guys? You must be a saint.

They pretty much keep me from going there during the season. Especially with three HD channels with the matches now. Not worth the annoyance.

I think any of the traditional Big 4 are considered front-runners (Man U, Chelski, LFC, Gunners), but that might just be the minnow in me talking. The United fans at Highbury are mostly USA supporters (even the non-Americans) and we became close over years of traveling to Chicago together and 5 am call times for WC matches. I still get the occasional idiot who's like "you support Reading, man, you better watch it in here." As though there's a big MUFC/RFC rivalry that's the untold tale of English football. But for the most part, they aren't bad to me and respect that I've stuck with the Royals through relegation.

Of course, they can be a pain in the ass to other EPL supporters. Still makes no sense to me, who's a bigger glory hunter than a non-Manchester Manc?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: whodem on July 28, 2011, 02:35:08 PM
Bob Bradley fired......Finally.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 28, 2011, 02:39:27 PM
Bob Bradley fired......Finally. Replacement supposed to be announced tomorrow.

Wow, I definitely did not see that coming. Thought that he was safe after weathering the post-Gold Cup weeks. Here's hoping for a quality replacement.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on July 28, 2011, 02:59:29 PM
I'll take a heaping spoonful on Klinsmann, please!  Dont' blow it this time Gulati.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: whodem on July 28, 2011, 03:15:11 PM
Rumored to be Marcelo Lippi.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Chili on July 28, 2011, 03:22:54 PM
Rumored to be Marcelo Lippi.

not that i dont believe you, but do you have a link to an article? just interested in reading more. thanks!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 28, 2011, 03:26:10 PM
not that i dont believe you, but do you have a link to an article? just interested in reading more. thanks!


Oh my word that would be sexy.  Klinsmann is the hot name obviously, but Lippi would be legit too.  Hopefully he wouldn't go all Fabio Capello on us.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: whodem on July 28, 2011, 03:30:20 PM
not that i dont believe you, but do you have a link to an article? just interested in reading more. thanks!


Andres Cantor tweeted it. Ives Galarcep(Fox Soccer) is saying though that he heard that Klinsman is the guy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 28, 2011, 03:49:34 PM
Twitter is abuzz with it. My money's on Klinsmann, though he wouldn't be my pick. I still think Jochim Low was more instrumental than Klinsmann on that 2006 team. I've also heard Lippi, Ancelotti, Dunga, and a cheeky David Moyes mention. My pick would be Lippi, but I expect California Klinsy.

For what it's worth, Gulati delayed a trip to South America after the announcement per Twitter to stay in California. Klinsy lives in Cali.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: caltruda on July 28, 2011, 04:27:04 PM
I would really like to pass on Klinsmann. Dunga strikes me as too much like Bradley, the team doesn't lack tenaciousness, it lacks cohesion. Lippi seems the best choice among the names bandied about, but Ancelotti would also work since the primary issue with the US team this cycle is the back line.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 28, 2011, 04:31:14 PM
Like soccer or not, this goal is friggin sick!

http://www.youtube.com/v/yilmHgZntsM
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUFC9295 on July 28, 2011, 04:34:13 PM
Chrissakes.  Klinsmann was brought up once, shoved in everyone's face, he turned it down, and yet he's the only name anyone ever mentions.  What did he do anyway?  Take an uber-talented German team to the semis?  Oh but he lives in LA?  Forget it.  Not only won't he, but he's not good for our MNT.  He has no ties to US soccer, won't develop our youth and does not know the US style.  Peter Nowak, Tab Ramos or Mike Sorber (all junior National Team coaches) are more likely.  Aw hell, I'll throw in Big Phil, Gus Hiddink and Sven-Goran.  That Lippi add-in above made me laugh.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Bocephys on July 28, 2011, 04:40:16 PM
Chrissakes.  Klinsmann was brought up once, shoved in everyone's face, he turned it down, and yet he's the only name anyone ever mentions.  What did he do anyway?  Take an uber-talented German team to the semis?  Oh but he lives in LA?  Forget it.  Not only won't he, but he's not good for our MNT.  He has no ties to US soccer, won't develop our youth and does not know the US style.  Peter Nowak, Tab Ramos or Mike Sorber (all junior National Team coaches) are more likely.  Aw hell, I'll throw in Big Phil, Gus Hiddink and Sven-Goran.  That Lippi add-in above made me laugh.  Thanks.

Isn't the US Style what's holding us back anyway?  I, for one, welcome our European soccer overlords.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 28, 2011, 07:16:04 PM
Chrissakes.  Klinsmann was brought up once, shoved in everyone's face, he turned it down, and yet he's the only name anyone ever mentions.  What did he do anyway?  Take an uber-talented German team to the semis?  Oh but he lives in LA?  Forget it.  Not only won't he, but he's not good for our MNT.

It's pretty public that Klinsmann wanted the USA job in 2006, but he also wanted control over the youth levels, which Gulati wouldn't give him. I think he's probably the highest profile guy that really wants the job and he definitely would take it if the circumstances met his requirements. Considering what I've been seeing and hearing today, I'd be surprised if it wasn't Klinsmann.

But I agree about your "What did he do anyway?" question. Jogi Low has been the driving force behind Germany for 6-7 years now. Was Klinsmann every anything more than the dashing figurehead of Germany soccer? I don't know if he has anywhere near the tactical acumen we need...just look at what he did (or rather didn't) at Bayern.

He has no ties to US soccer, won't develop our youth and does not know the US style.

Absolutely false. This is the one place I support Klinsmann. He follows our program very closely, has been flirting with Gulati about this job for 5 years, and has definitive plans of how he wants to restructure our youth levels. I'm not saying he's the right choice, but these are even remotely correct as reasons not to hire him.

Peter Nowak, Tab Ramos or Mike Sorber (all junior National Team coaches) are more likely.  Aw hell, I'll throw in Big Phil, Gus Hiddink and Sven-Goran.  That Lippi add-in above made me laugh.  Thanks.

You haven't been following this at all, have you? Okay, Sorber's possible, but the consensus is that Gulati already has his guy lined up and is ready to make a big announcement tomorrow. Hiring an assistant or MLS guy just wouldn't be that high-profile move that he probably needs to save his own job. Big Phil I can't see, Guus is too expensive, and Eriksson would be a bad fit. But like I said, you clearly aren't following this if you think Lippi is impossible. Lippi just said that he would be interested in a national team again. Ives Galercep has him as second choice (behind Klinsy) and numerous other experts are touting Lippi as "the guy". I still don't believe it, but I'd honestly be more surprised by the hiring of an MLS guy than I would Lippi at this point.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: whodem on July 29, 2011, 10:45:58 AM
US Soccer Federation said something to the degree of, "It won't be a surprise who'll be hired" so I would say that Jurgen is the guy.

EDIT: It was a US Soccer Insider that said it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Chili on July 29, 2011, 10:47:50 AM
Reports out its Klinsmann...also, the team is to be known as the ÜSMNT or üSMNT from now on.

http://www.nj.com/soccer-news/index.ssf/2011/07/jrgen_klinsmann_is_us_soccers.html (http://www.nj.com/soccer-news/index.ssf/2011/07/jrgen_klinsmann_is_us_soccers.html)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on July 29, 2011, 10:52:29 AM
Reports out its Klinsmann...also, the team is to be known as the ÜSMNT or üSMNT from now on.

http://www.nj.com/soccer-news/index.ssf/2011/07/jrgen_klinsmann_is_us_soccers.html (http://www.nj.com/soccer-news/index.ssf/2011/07/jrgen_klinsmann_is_us_soccers.html)
But, will Klinsmann have total roster control or not?  That is what  scuttled the previous attempt to hire him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Chili on July 29, 2011, 11:21:03 AM
But, will Klinsmann have total roster control or not?  That is what  scuttled the previous attempt to hire him.

From the Twitter:

GrantWahl
7 minutes ago from web
Official: Jürgen Klinsmann is the new coach of the U.S. men’s soccer team. He’ll have more control than any U.S. coach before him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: groove on July 29, 2011, 11:24:24 AM
great. hopefully we will also do away with those dumbass january friendlies that don't match up with the international schedule. I'm sick of B team friendlies filled with MLS players that have no business being anywhere near the national team.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Chili on July 29, 2011, 12:14:52 PM
Here is a video from after World Cup '10 of what Klinsmann thinks the US Program needs to do...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07O6qsZT7lc&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07O6qsZT7lc&feature=player_embedded)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 29, 2011, 12:15:38 PM
Worth reading to get a feel for how Germany rebuilt its system.  It was a significant effort, and probably highlights why it's been such a sticking point in previous negotiations.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/world-cup-2010/writers/raphael_honigstein/07/01/germany.reinvention/index.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUFC9295 on July 29, 2011, 12:22:54 PM
Chrissakes.  Klinsmann was brought up once, shoved in everyone's face, he turned it down, and yet he's the only name anyone ever mentions.  What did he do anyway?  Take an uber-talented German team to the semis?  Oh but he lives in LA?  Forget it.  Not only won't he, but he's not good for our MNT.  He has no ties to US soccer, won't develop our youth and does not know the US style.  Peter Nowak, Tab Ramos or Mike Sorber (all junior National Team coaches) are more likely.  Aw hell, I'll throw in Big Phil, Gus Hiddink and Sven-Goran.  That Lippi add-in above made me laugh.  Thanks.

So I will be eating my words.  Fair enough.  I thought the love affair was over and the media knew as little as me.  I stopped "following" each time Jurgen wa brought up.  Completely discounted it.

Though I stand by my comments on Klinsman
1)not havig ties and being ineffective with youth.  Has he been involved in ODP?   Flirting with Gulati doesn't count for anything.  
2) An MLS or JNT coach would be more likely.  I threw those other names in there sarcastically as they are always mentioned for openings in the rest of the world regardless.  Perhaps I should have used teal.  
3) US style is fine.  Its the defensive (lack thereof) half that has cost us.  We simply havent had the players (injury, age) to consistently meet the standards.  We've been playing weak defenses rather than the "linebackers" which teams have feared.  We will always have a quick-paced forward line and our wings have generally been able-bodied enough to run both ways.

And while I don't dispute the fact Gulati has wanted Klinsmann all along, I'd like to know how that "saved his job?"  Munich fans are probably saying our Federation "ist so verruckt" as our Government.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUFC9295 on July 29, 2011, 12:26:25 PM
Worth reading to get a feel for how Germany rebuilt its system.  It was a significant effort, and probably highlights why it's been such a sticking point in previous negotiations.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/world-cup-2010/writers/raphael_honigstein/07/01/germany.reinvention/index.html

Kinda makes me wish they went after Low.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 29, 2011, 12:37:05 PM
Kinda makes me wish they went after Low.

I see Klinsmann's primary value in terms of building the right system for US Soccer to be successful, much more than his technical coaching abilities.

Having said that about his coaching, to quote the Big Lead, "His record is open to criticism, though show me the American coach who has reached the semifinal of a World Cup or steered a European club to the Champions League."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 29, 2011, 02:43:29 PM
I see Klinsmann's primary value in terms of building the right system for US Soccer to be successful, much more than his technical coaching abilities.

Having said that about his coaching, to quote the Big Lead, "His record is open to criticism, though show me the American coach who has reached the semifinal of a World Cup or steered a European club to the Champions League."

The US looked disjointed and disinterested in each other throughout the Gold Cup. Klinsi is the kind of guy who can fix morale and the like which is why Troll Gulati finally got his balls out from under Bradley's desk and made this move.

Klinsi is the perfect choice because he appeases the split in the fanbase: those who wish to have an experienced and cultured football-lifer from a foreign land and those who wish to have someone that understands the uniquely backward US youth system.

I wonder if Gulati has turned the page or if their is a movement afoot to edge him out. Claudio Reyna gave a few interviews early in July talking about a one system country and how he is working to streamline it. This is what Klinsi wanted in 2006 and Gulati baulked. Perhaps he feels Reyna can be his safety net once he turns over the program to Klinsi.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on July 29, 2011, 03:15:35 PM
This is a great pick up for the USMNT, I'm excited for his first game Aug. 10 against Mexico.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on August 01, 2011, 10:37:05 PM
New Team USA discusses his vision, and plans---there is a lot to like here.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6823727/juergen-klinsmann-blueprint-success-soccer
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 04, 2011, 02:42:45 PM
http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Mens-National-Team/2011/08/Klinsmann-Calls-In-22-Players-to-Face-Mexico-on-Aug-10-in-Philadelphia.aspx

Klinsmann announces the roster for USA's match against Mexico:

GOALKEEPERS (2): Bill Hamid (D.C.United), Tim Howard (Everton)

DEFENDERS (8): Carlos Bocanegra (Saint-Etienne), Edgar Castillo (Club America), Timmy Chandler (FC Nürnberg), Steve Cherundolo (Hannover 96), Clarence Goodson (Brondby), Michael Orozco Fiscal (San Luis), Heath Pearce (Chivas USA), Tim Ream (New York Red Bulls)

MIDFIELDERS (7): Kyle Beckerman (Real Salt Lake), Michael Bradley (Borussia Mönchengladbach), Ricardo Clark (Eintracht Frankfurt), Maurice Edu (Rangers), Jermaine Jones (Schalke 04), Brek Shea (FC Dallas), José Torres (Pachuca)

FORWARDS (5): Freddy Adu (Benfica), Juan Agudelo (New York Red Bulls), DaMarcus Beasley (Puebla), Edson Buddle (FC Ingolstadt), Landon Donovan (Los Angeles Galaxy)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 04, 2011, 03:09:36 PM
Other than Ricardo Clark, I'm okay with this call-up. Some players are out due to club decisions (Jozy, Dempsey), while others are mid-season (Bedoya, Mixx, etc). Lots of Latin influence. Should be interesting line-ups on the field. Got a definite 4-3-3 feel to it.

I hope people relax about the friendly call-ups for the next year. Klinnsman will obviously just be trying out the squads and narrowing down the 60+ possible US players to 20 or so he's comfortable using on a consistent basis.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 04, 2011, 03:12:59 PM
Tough to say what exactly to make of this. A little surprised to see Hamid, but with Guzan and Yelldell trying to win jobs I imagine he's just giving one of the MLS guys a run-out to see what's there for the future. Glad it's a youngster. Can't wait to see Chandler, and he's going to the well on a few guys Bradley seemed to be leaving behind in Castillo, Orozco, and Pearce. In the midfield, glad to see Torres back, but not Beckerman. He's a fine MLS player but has never been impressive as an international. Up front...well, to say the least I'm surprised. Adu, Agudelo, Donovan, fine...but Beasley and Buddle? I think Demarcus' best days are about 5 years behind him, while Buddle is okay but just doesn't seem like a part of the team going forward. Would've rather seen Bunbury over either of them.

Still, it's change. This is definitely not Bob Bradley's roster. Can't wait for Wednesday!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 04, 2011, 03:17:42 PM
Tough to say what exactly to make of this. A little surprised to see Hamid, but with Guzan and Yelldell trying to win jobs I imagine he's just giving one of the MLS guys a run-out to see what's there for the future. Glad it's a youngster. Can't wait to see Chandler, and he's going to the well on a few guys Bradley seemed to be leaving behind in Castillo, Orozco, and Pearce. In the midfield, glad to see Torres back, but not Beckerman. He's a fine MLS player but has never been impressive as an international. Up front...well, to say the least I'm surprised. Adu, Agudelo, Donovan, fine...but Beasley and Buddle? I think Demarcus' best days are about 5 years behind him, while Buddle is okay but just doesn't seem like a part of the team going forward. Would've rather seen Bunbury over either of them.

Still, it's change. This is definitely not Bob Bradley's roster. Can't wait for Wednesday!

I like it. Using our Mexican-American talents could go a long way. Timothy Chandler could be a key player for the USMNT going forward and we can't afford to let him sit any longer and let Germany sniff around. I'd also like to see Omar Gonzalez get some caps.

Agree about Beasley and Buddle.  But who knows, I'm okay with him just checking everyone out before he moves forward.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on August 04, 2011, 04:11:43 PM
No Altidore still because of injury, or was he left off completely?

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on August 04, 2011, 04:17:03 PM
No Altidore still because of injury, or was he left off completely?



His emphasis has to be on getting acclimated to his new club (AZ Alkmaar) so he can maybe, you know, actually play for once.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 04, 2011, 06:32:06 PM
His emphasis has to be on getting acclimated to his new club (AZ Alkmaar) so he can maybe, you know, actually play for once.

That was my guess. Jozy needs to get playing time, so like Guzan and Yelldell, he's probably better served fighting for a job than getting a cap.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: swoopem on August 08, 2011, 10:06:48 AM
Real Madrid just signed a 7 year old. This pretty ridiculous, who knows what this kid will be like when he is 16 which is when he might get to play.

http://news.yahoo.com/madrid-signs-7-old-argentine-prospect-leo-133646438.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: PaintTouches on August 08, 2011, 01:41:08 PM
Real Madrid just signed a 7 year old. This pretty ridiculous, who knows what this kid will be like when he is 16 which is when he might get to play.

http://news.yahoo.com/madrid-signs-7-old-argentine-prospect-leo-133646438.html

It's not all that uncommon though, not sure why such a big deal has been made. It's not like he will be lining up with CR7 after his midday nap. Clubs sign youngsters to their academies all the time. They go to school, live and train there like any other prep school. If I'm not mistaken the real Leo was 11 or 12 when Barcelona "signed" him. Before that he was "signed" by his local team Rosario.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: w0bbie on August 11, 2011, 11:41:00 AM
Thoughts on the game last night?  I don't have a great tactical eye but I though that the last half hour showed some very promising play.  Brek Shea, Agudelo, and Landon looked great in that stretch.  Also Robbie Rogers showed nice pace and energy.  I would have loved to see how he would have finished his run if he hadn't been taken to the ground when he was on the break.  Thought a few times we were going to pull out another late goal but for some slightly off-target passes and questionable calls (aforementioned Rogers run not being a red and Landon getting taken down in the box with no call).  Definitely a performance to build on.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 11, 2011, 01:52:57 PM
I thought last night was positive, but it's tough to take much away from it, considering Klinsmann only has 10 days on the job. I liked the formation, I've been hoping for a 4-2-3-1 for awhile. It's very easy when you have wingers like Donovan, Dempsey, and Bedoya to shift that into a 4-3-3 attacking formation, but you don't overcommit most of the time.

I really liked moving Bradley up in more of an attacking role. He flourished in that kind of role in Holland. I thought our defense was good and looked quick. I do wish we had tried to hold the ball more. In the middle 30 minutes, we went too often for the killer long balls when possession would have helped us more. Still, our biggest need is a striker, and if not a true, legitimate goal-getting striker, then a center forward who can accept that their role is not to score but to hold up play and allow the wingers to do the finishing. Honestly, as much-maligned as he was, Brian Ching was great at that role. Never a finisher, but he wasn't asked to be. I'd rather have a Brian Ching type who knows his role than an Agudelo who tries to be aggressive and almost always wastes possession.

The final 30 minutes were brilliant, best play I've seen from us in awhile. Honestly, it's a travesty that we didn't see a red for the takedown on Rogers and didn't see at least one of the two penalties that should have been given (especially the second). Mexico definitely had the better of play for most of the first half and the early parts of the second, but I'd say we really held our own and probably deserved the win.

It's far too early to make any real assessment, but it's something to build on. I'm excited to see what Klinsmann does when he has all the European players available to him for the two September friendlies.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 11, 2011, 02:13:09 PM
Never a finisher, but he wasn't asked to be. I'd rather have a Brian Ching type who knows his role than an Agudelo who tries to be aggressive and almost always wastes possession.

I like Agudelo.  I think he is creative up front, and given time, could be a very dangerous finisher for us.  He is incredibly young and given time he could be a star.

As cheesy as it is, I loved Klinsmann's energy.  He just kind of injected a charge into a team that looked listless and really matched well with the style he is trying to impress upon this team. 

I think this team shows alot of promise and the shake up will be good for the USMNT as a whole, no doubt.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 11, 2011, 05:40:36 PM
I thought last night was positive, but it's tough to take much away from it, considering Klinsmann only has 10 days on the job. I liked the formation, I've been hoping for a 4-2-3-1 for awhile. It's very easy when you have wingers like Donovan, Dempsey, and Bedoya to shift that into a 4-3-3 attacking formation, but you don't overcommit most of the time.

I really liked moving Bradley up in more of an attacking role. He flourished in that kind of role in Holland. I thought our defense was good and looked quick. I do wish we had tried to hold the ball more. In the middle 30 minutes, we went too often for the killer long balls when possession would have helped us more. Still, our biggest need is a striker, and if not a true, legitimate goal-getting striker, then a center forward who can accept that their role is not to score but to hold up play and allow the wingers to do the finishing. Honestly, as much-maligned as he was, Brian Ching was great at that role. Never a finisher, but he wasn't asked to be. I'd rather have a Brian Ching type who knows his role than an Agudelo who tries to be aggressive and almost always wastes possession.

The final 30 minutes were brilliant, best play I've seen from us in awhile. Honestly, it's a travesty that we didn't see a red for the takedown on Rogers and didn't see at least one of the two penalties that should have been given (especially the second). Mexico definitely had the better of play for most of the first half and the early parts of the second, but I'd say we really held our own and probably deserved the win.

It's far too early to make any real assessment, but it's something to build on. I'm excited to see what Klinsmann does when he has all the European players available to him for the two September friendlies.

USA sucks in a 4-2-3-1. There are no legitimate target men in this country who can play on their own. The reason they were great in the last 25 minutes was because das German paired Shea and Agudelo with a roving Donovan eliminating the 3-1 on top.

Problem with Bradley last night is that he kept drifting back and taking possession off of Castillo/Cherundolo even though it was clear das German wanted him as the link up top. Bradley is very much a player in transition both for club and country. It'll be interesting to see where he lands club-wise and where Klinsi ends up having confidence in him.

Every striker is asked to be a finisher. Ching should never be back because of all the sitters he's missed in his career. Some of them were shocking. I'd much rather blood a youngster like Juan or Bunbury who has a pair of balls then the prototypical dopey MLS guy who can only score against second rate competition.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 11, 2011, 07:35:03 PM
USA sucks in a 4-2-3-1. There are no legitimate target men in this country who can play on their own. The reason they were great in the last 25 minutes was because das German paired Shea and Agudelo with a roving Donovan eliminating the 3-1 on top.

I still think 4-2-3-1 is our best. It's versatile, lets us be defensive (which we're better at) and when we have our best players out there, shifts easily to offensive.

Problem with Bradley last night is that he kept drifting back and taking possession off of Castillo/Cherundolo even though it was clear das German wanted him as the link up top. Bradley is very much a player in transition both for club and country. It'll be interesting to see where he lands club-wise and where Klinsi ends up having confidence in him.

Agreed on Bradley. I like the position for him, but he seemed to still be in the Bob Bradley mindset of playing back. I've heard some rumors of him going to Fulham...might be good for him to play with Clint. I think Fulham would be good because they're willing to give Yanks a chance, if not, I'd like to see him at a low-level EPL club where he would be likely to get minutes.

Every striker is asked to be a finisher. Ching should never be back because of all the sitters he's missed in his career. Some of them were shocking. I'd much rather blood a youngster like Juan or Bunbury who has a pair of balls then the prototypical dopey MLS guy who can only score against second rate competition.

Ooh, sorry, you're dead wrong there. Well, you're wrong if you assume every central forward is a striker. There is a vastly different role between a central forward and a striker. We don't have any true strikers. There isn't a single USA forward that can be counted on to get goals regularly. I guess the last one you could count was McBride. But just because we don't have an Henry, a Van Nistelrooy, or a Shevchenko doesn't mean we don't have guys that can play effectively up front.

Look at Emile Heskey. The guy was never a goal-scorer, but England was undoubtedly a better team with him in the lineup, Wigan said they would only let him go for an "outrageous" offer (despite 15 goals in 82 appearances) and in general he had what would be considered a very successful club career despite a modest scoring record. But what Heskey did was make the team better. He was excellent at hold-up play, bringing guys like Young and Agbonlahor at Villa, or Rooney with the NT, into the play. He provided opportunities because of his smart and savvy play. Since McBride retired, Ching has been the best guy we had at this role. Conor Casey never embraced the role, while Eddie Johnson, Jozy Altidore, Robbie Findlay, and Edson Buddle have been given chances but seemed more interested in being scorers than center forwards.

We just don't have guys with the ability of being strikers. But we do have guys that can be center forwards. We have guys that can hold the ball and allow Donovan and Dempsey to come into the play. I realize that Brian Ching or a player like him will never be the sexy pick, but since McBride retired, he was the most effective center forward we had, mainly because he knew he wasn't a striker.

You can throw all the Agudelos, Bunburys, Wondolowskis, Gatts, or McInerneys you want at the team, but every time we try to make one of those guys into our next "striker" (see Johnson, Eddie or Altidore, Jozy) we end up with a guy who does less than he should with the talent he has and won't be willing to play a role in a system.

No one likes it, but we are a team that should be defensive and possession-oriented. We are a team that should have seven men (including the keeper) primarily committed to defending, and three more willing to drop back there at a moment's notice. And we are a team that should not try to manufacture a striker until we have someone who clearly has willingness and physical ability to play the center forward role shows they can also get goals (an RVN type).

If we had a single striker, I'd be all for playing them. But we don't have one. Not a single one. So until we do, we're better off finding someone willing to be a center forward and embracing the workmanlike role that a guy like Emile Heskey, or Brian Ching, was willing to play.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 14, 2011, 09:51:49 AM
Eh. You can parse it any way you like but there is no point in playing someone up top if you don't care whether they score. I'd also like to see a guy like Ching admit that he's not a striker. I'd like to see from the player where they admit they don't need to score to be effective. Where all they need to do is hold the ball and hand off to a non-scoring dominant position player so that they can be the finisher of the group.

This is the exact problem with the US system. We abide crap players up top and put abnormal pressure on wing players to finish games for us. Hell, the reason why Landon will go down as the highest scorer is 90% down to the US consistently playing donkeys like Ching. He might be the only American happy to see guys like Ching, Wondo, Buddle, etc. on the pitch.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 14, 2011, 11:11:19 AM
Eh. You can parse it any way you like but there is no point in playing someone up top if you don't care whether they score. I'd also like to see a guy like Ching admit that he's not a striker. I'd like to see from the player where they admit they don't need to score to be effective. Where all they need to do is hold the ball and hand off to a non-scoring dominant position player so that they can be the finisher of the group.

This is the exact problem with the US system. We abide crap players up top and put abnormal pressure on wing players to finish games for us. Hell, the reason why Landon will go down as the highest scorer is 90% down to the US consistently playing donkeys like Ching. He might be the only American happy to see guys like Ching, Wondo, Buddle, etc. on the pitch.

Well, I'm happy to admit I wish we had an Eto'o, an Aguero, a Shevchenko, or some other guy who can get the job done. But who do we have? Agudelo keeps his head down too much and is easy to push off his line, Altidore hasn't matched his potential, Eddie Johnson had a good goal run to start but fell apart...we just don't have that guy.

If we had someone to work with who could do the job, I'd support it. The problem is, we don't, so we have to work with what we do have. I look at our forward pool and see a huge void when it comes to getting goals. Until that changes, we need to utilize our CF to bring others into the play and allow guys like Donovan and Dempsey to do the scoring.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: whodem on August 15, 2011, 04:58:14 PM
Aguero had about as good of a debut as you could have for Man City.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: PaintTouches on August 15, 2011, 07:09:28 PM
Aguero had about as good of a debut as you could have for Man City.


Agree, and even though it was against a team that will be relegated, it nonetheless showcased his scoring talents. At first I thought those who genuinely believed Man City could make a run at the title were crazy, but if Mancini realizes how potent his offense is and stops playing with two holding mids... watch out. They are for real.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on August 15, 2011, 08:17:19 PM
How about Fabregas to Barca??!

Yikes, Real and the rest of UEFA might be in trouble the next 5 years.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: whodem on August 15, 2011, 10:15:20 PM

Agree, and even though it was against a team that will be relegated, it nonetheless showcased his scoring talents. At first I thought those who genuinely believed Man City could make a run at the title were crazy, but if Mancini realizes how potent his offense is and stops playing with two holding mids... watch out. They are for real.


I felt the same way, and it looks like they'll get Nasri as well. If that happens outside of Barcelona IMO Man City has the best team in the world.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on August 16, 2011, 12:07:05 AM
How about Fabregas to Barca??!

Yikes, Real and the rest of UEFA might be in trouble the next 5 years.

Real made 5 moves on new players too...but as a lifetime Real fan I have gotta swallow this hard and admit Barca is simply the best.

I was chatting with a friend in from London, who is a lifetime Liverpool fan, ...he said, and I agree..."Watching the elegant play of Barca, makes them everybody's second favorite team, to watch."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 16, 2011, 07:42:39 AM
So until we do, we're better off finding someone willing to be a center forward and embracing the workmanlike role that a guy like Emile Heskey, or Brian Ching, was willing to play.

I definitely agree with this sentiment. Considering his size and youth, I really think Jozy could learn to play this role extremely well. If we can develop younger wings in the Dempsey/Donovan mold over the next few years, as well as establish a Ballack-like attacking central mid to play below Jozy (I have no idea who this could currently be... Holden? Adu? Torres? Feilhaber?), I think that could work really well for the US for years to come.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 16, 2011, 09:38:02 AM
Real made 5 moves on new players too...but as a lifetime Real fan I have gotta swallow this hard and admit Barca is simply the best.

I was chatting with a friend in from London, who is a lifetime Liverpool fan, ...he said, and I agree..."Watching the elegant play of Barca, makes them everybody's second favorite team, to watch."

My initial reaction was Fabregas is only 24? Good god.  I just think how I've watched him at Arsenal since college forgetting that he started with the Gunners when he was only 16.

Barca just plays such precise fluid football.  Its just incredible to watch, they are so calm.  I mean, you take the WC champs, add the best player in the world, and a couple other select ex-pats, and you just have a positively frightening team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: groove on August 16, 2011, 11:57:56 AM
Barca just plays such precise fluid football.  Its just incredible to watch, they are so calm.  I mean, you take the WC champs, add the best player in the world, and a couple other select ex-pats, and you just have a positively frightening team.

Unless they are playing Real Madrid, in which case Barca turns into one of the most cynical teams you will ever see. Never seen so many dives. Embarrassing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 16, 2011, 01:27:57 PM
Hey, they gotta keep up with Ronaldo's diving arms race...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on August 16, 2011, 01:40:29 PM
Hey, they gotta keep up with Ronaldo's diving arms race...

If you watch Ronaldo in La Liga he doesn't dive nearly at all, now the WC is a WHOLE other story...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on August 18, 2011, 05:06:00 AM
The Supercopa is still considered preseason... but its still a classico. Fabregas already contributed with a beautiful setup...and Messi was awesome. Real actually looked pretty good for most of the game, but after Barca's 3rd goal it went from chippy to ugly late.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6871922/lionel-messi-winner-helps-barcelona-supercup-title-real-madrid
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: groove on August 18, 2011, 07:03:03 AM
Barca are a bunch of pricks. I don't understand why other teams just don't go after messi. He's just a little guy. If I was the other team I would concentrate on taking him out of the game by the 25 minute mark. Just beat the crap out of him. I hate cynical play as much as the next guy, but I would target Messi for some serious ankle breaking. Of course Messi is so good it's as likely that anyone trying to defend him would have their ankles broken by some of his moves.

Yeah, I also believed that in the playoffs if you were playing Jordan you needed to knock him on his ass anytime he drove the lane, but then the NBA changed the rules to stop the Pistons from winning :)

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 18, 2011, 09:08:48 AM
The Supercopa is still considered preseason... but its still a classico. Fabregas already contributed with a beautiful setup...and Messi was awesome. Real actually looked pretty good for most of the game, but after Barca's 3rd goal it went from chippy to ugly late.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6871922/lionel-messi-winner-helps-barcelona-supercup-title-real-madrid

This line of thought seems a bit overdone for me the last 12 hours.

Cesc threw a pedestrian pass to Messi in the middle of the pitch. It was then Messi who lined up the leading pass to Adriano, and then Adriano was the real inspiration of the play with a perfect set-up for Messi. Adriano should be the one noted as the creator.

I understand the emotion and sentiment of sexy Cesc being back home and the media wanting to create a magical, and orgasmic, moment around that but Fab's pass to Messi is one he completed 40 times a match at Arsenal. Much ado about nothing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 18, 2011, 10:35:47 AM
Barca are a bunch of pricks. I don't understand why other teams just don't go after messi. He's just a little guy. If I was the other team I would concentrate on taking him out of the game by the 25 minute mark. Just beat the crap out of him. I hate cynical play as much as the next guy, but I would target Messi for some serious ankle breaking. Of course Messi is so good it's as likely that anyone trying to defend him would have their ankles broken by some of his moves.

Yeah, I also believed that in the playoffs if you were playing Jordan you needed to knock him on his ass anytime he drove the lane, but then the NBA changed the rules to stop the Pistons from winning :)

Probably cause they have respect for him cause he plays hard and eschews alot of the BS that other players engage in.  He's tiny and takes hell most games and keeps ticking.

Your hatred for Barca is amusing.  I watched the game and I wasnt abhorred by anything they were doing.  They played the tight fluid soccer they always do.  Did they exaggerate Real's over aggressiveness?  Sure, but honestly, thats soccer.

All that being said, what a game.  Both of Messi's goals were top class.  Pique's back heel was gorgeous on the first.  Ronaldo's deflection was sublime.  It looks like nothing, but most players don't put that away.  Its unfortunate that nobody else in La Liga can run with either of these squads.  I will say, Barcelona has more chemistry as a team than Real and I think its a large reason they have had the upper hand as of late.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on August 26, 2011, 10:05:42 PM
!No mas Huelga, Vamos a los Juegos!
With La Liga agreeing to back up payment of $72 million in back pay owed to players, the strike (huelga) is over, and the games begin.
The huge debt leverage, and cash flow insolvency of many teams continues to be an unresolved issue.

 http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6894154/la-liga-strike-deal-reached
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on August 29, 2011, 02:54:23 PM
EPL Buy and Sell:

BUY (in order): Man U, Man City, Liverpool
SELL: Arsenal & Blackburn

Creeping toward BUY: Chelsea, Aston Villa

Middle of the pack: Everton, Norwich City (my favorite of the new teams), Wolves, and Newcastle

The rest....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on August 29, 2011, 07:40:51 PM
EPL Buy and Sell:

BUY (in order): Man U, Man City, Liverpool
SELL: Arsenal & Blackburn

Creeping toward BUY: Chelsea, Aston Villa

Middle of the pack: Everton, Norwich City (my favorite of the new teams), Wolves, and Newcastle

The rest....


CHAMPIONS: ManU, ManC, Liverpool, Chelsea

EUROPA: My head says that Arsenal or Tottenham will manage to comeback to grab fifth.  Otherwise perhaps Stoke or Everton???  I just don't trust Villa or Newcastle.

RELEGATED: Blackburn, WBA, Swansea
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on August 29, 2011, 08:59:22 PM
The Man U Arsenal match was horrific.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Chili on August 29, 2011, 09:14:54 PM
The Man U Arsenal match was horrific.

That was straight prison rape...no lube, no spit, just straight up raped.....Arsenal didn't even show up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: johngills on August 31, 2011, 02:28:50 AM
We preview the friendly between the U.S. and Spain that will take place Saturday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 31, 2011, 11:21:15 AM
That was straight prison rape...no lube, no spit, just straight up raped.....Arsenal didn't even show up.

RVP does what he's supposed to and it's 1-1 in the 25th. Would have been interesting to see if Arsenal went against type at that point and parked the bus.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2011, 11:35:10 AM
Thoughts on last night's match vs. Costa Rica:

 - The build-up, possession and attack of the US looked GREAT in the first half. I love Klinnsman for bringing this to the USMNT. But: will he find the right players to be able to perform against high-level international competition? And: the US seems to need to change its training strategy due to the need for higher level fitness in Klinns' system.
 - Donovan looked old last night; missing open shots, terrible set pieces, bad passes/first touches, etc
 - Brek Shea is the real deal
 - The Castillo experiment at LB has to be over... right?
 - Torres was incredibly impressive
 - Altidore looked so much more comfortable in this role, as opposed to what Bradley was having him do
 - Where is the US going to find the young, gifted players it needs at CB?
 - With klinnsman at the helm, I feel very positive about the direction the US is headed in terms of style/strategy as well as long term development.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 03, 2011, 03:39:06 PM
Nice comments, socrplar. Glad that I'm not the only one not irate because we lost a friendly. Here are my thoughts:

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 28, 2011, 09:29:39 PM
any have ESPN insider and want to share this article?

http://insider.espn.go.com/sports/soccer/blog?name=us_national_soccer&id=7030815&_slug_=german-influence-us-national-team-strengthening-jurgen-klinsmann&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fsports%2fsoccer%2fblog%3fname%3dus_national_soccer%26id%3d7030815%26_slug_%3dgerman-influence-us-national-team-strengthening-jurgen-klinsmann
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 29, 2011, 06:22:18 PM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2011/09/klinsmann-releases-roster-for-friendlies-against-honduras-ecuador.html

Solid call ups. Spector, Beasley and Gooch getting new more chances at the national level, though not sure how I feel about that. Injuries to Torres and Holden hurt us. Interesting with the flood of Latin players and now German-Americans (Chandler, Johnson, Williams). Good to see jurgen is looking past the mls and domestic players to find more foreign born talent; nearly all the Europeans have been doing this for years.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 29, 2011, 06:40:26 PM
I'm happy to see Spector and Gooch getting a chance again. Gooch is definitely earning it with his play in Portugal. Not so pleased to see Rimando -- he's 32 and a runt, we have bigger, younger, better options -- or Orozco Fiscal, who's quickly looking like a failed experiment.

Holden is starting to feel like a frustrating story. Wasn't quite ready in 2010 to take a major role, finally broke out at the club level for Bolton, now can't stay on the pitch. I really hope he isn't the next Charlie Davies or Benny Feilhaber, the guy that looks like the difference maker who just can't consistently get into the team.

Up front, I don't know what I want. I think Altidore's our best current option, but that's not saying much. Agudelo has really disappointed me, and I'm ready for the same from Bunbury. I feel like the young guys just aren't ready and none of the vets even offer what we need, the holding forward that is just as concerned with laying off as he is with scoring (if not more so). Guys like Ching and Casey are clearly past it, and were never what McBride was, I wouldn't mind seeing Justin Braun get a chance, or Davies be allowed to show that he's returned to fitness.

I don't know...our forwards just suck. I hope Klinsy finally gets his first win. These draws and losses aren't what I was hoping for at this point. Oh...and here's that story ;)

Quote from: ESPN Insider
The U.S. national team took on a decidedly Mexican flavor in the first three games of the Jurgen Klinsmann era, but his Yanks figure to look a lot more German in the coming months.
  • EnlargeJurgen Klinsmann

Hunter Martin/Getty ImagesThe U.S. team will likely take on a more German feel under Jurgen Klinsmann.

That's not simply a result of an injury that could sideline Jose Torres into early 2012, or because of unconvincing performances put in by Edgar Castillo and Michael Orozco Fiscal against Costa Rica last month.

The recent club form of Mexican leaguers DaMarcus Beasley and Herculez Gomez could see both veterans recalled for next month's home friendlies against Honduras and Ecuador, but it's becoming clear that the program's long-standing German influence is taking another leap forward under its new German coach.

After inviting Hoffenheim's Fabian Johnson -- who still awaits FIFA approval of his national team switch from Germany -- to last month's training camp, Klinsmann followed up with a recruiting visit to Johnson's club teammate, Daniel Williams.

Williams -- like Johnson, Timothy Chandler and Jermaine Jones -- is the German-born and -trained son of an American serviceman. Unlike Johnson, however, he has never played in an official match for Germany at the youth level, which removes at least one bureaucratic hurdle.

But Johnson's eligibility for the U.S. remains unclear, since being born in a foreign country to one American parent does not automatically make one a U.S. citizen. Williams reportedly is a citizen, but even if that information is accurate, getting a passport -- and all the documents required to apply for one -- could take time. (Calls and emails to Williams' agent and to Hoffenheim were not immediately returned).

There is no shortage of other German-based prospects emerging from the country's world-class youth system, a list that includes potential dual-nationals like Hertha Berlin's John Anthony Brooks and Alfredo Morales, and Bayern Munich's Fabian Hurzeler, as well as Americans abroad such as Charles Renken and Joseph Gyau of Hoffenheim, 1860 Munich's Bobby Wood and Dortmund's Terrence Boyd, who Brent Latham profiled in this blog earlier this week.

And while there are also scores of young Yanks learning their trade in quality environments in Mexico, the relative strength of Germany's national team and domestic league works more to the Americans' advantage.

Despite seeing increased playing time in the Bundesliga this season, players like Johnson and Williams, ages 23 and 22, respectively, are known commodities who probably missed their window for a call from Die Mannschaft. While Chandler turned down a call to represent Germany's U-21 squad after making his U.S debut last March, recent reports that German senior team coach Joachim Loew was trying to woo him were quickly debunked.

The California-based Klinsmann clearly admires Latin flair, but the circumstances, the strong connections to club coaches in his homeland and the Yanks' evolving player pool suggest that his U.S. team will be built more in the ex-striker's own image of archetypal German skill and physicality.

Notes

• There's no doubt there's a new feel to the U.S. national team under Klinsmann, but on the field, there's actually a lot of the same-old, same-old. In fact, Klinsmann has yet to give a single U.S. player his first cap. Will someone new take the field in the next set of friendlies, against Honduras or Ecuador? We'll get an idea when the Yanks' roster is released this week.

• With many European teams still trying to qualify for Euro 2012, the U.S. isn't likely to finalize its November schedule until after next month's FIFA match days. Expect a pair of games, though, even if a potential foe -- Scotland, perhaps? -- unexpectedly qualifies for UEFA's playoffs. If such an eventuality unfolds, the U.S. has backup options so it isn't left in the lurch.

• One team the Yanks definitely won't face in November is Germany, which has games scheduled against the Netherlands and Ukraine. That doesn't rule out the possibility of playing in Germany, however, against a South American or African national team with a mostly European-based roster. If it doesn't happen this year, expect it to at some point under Klinsmann. Deutschland hosted the last neutral-site U.S. friendly, against Poland in 2006.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on September 29, 2011, 06:51:37 PM
Getting excited for the Darby this weekend!

Go BLUES!

COYB
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on September 29, 2011, 10:46:53 PM
Getting excited for the Darby this weekend!

Go BLUES!

COYB

"In my time at Liverpool we always said we had the best two teams on Merseyside, Liverpool and Liverpool reserves." -Bill Shankly
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 30, 2011, 09:40:43 AM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2011/09/klinsmann-releases-roster-for-friendlies-against-honduras-ecuador.html

Solid call ups. Spector, Beasley and Gooch getting new more chances at the national level, though not sure how I feel about that. Injuries to Torres and Holden hurt us. Interesting with the flood of Latin players and now German-Americans (Chandler, Johnson, Williams). Good to see jurgen is looking past the mls and domestic players to find more foreign born talent; nearly all the Europeans have been doing this for years.



Its nice of him to bring up DaMarcus Beasley's corpse.  And no Bornstein, hurrah!

I'm hoping Agudelo kind find some sort of form.  He showed flashes initially but has been largely disappointing since.  Here's to proving me wrong.

Also, for those of you who are interested/inclined, Grantland has a podcast called "Men in Blazers" with Michael Davis and Roger Bennett who talk mostly EPL and some international/other European leagues.  Its both awesome and entertaining as its two Brits with ample soccer knowledge and terminology, but they have been in the states long enough that they use plenty of American analogies and references to other sports you won't find from alot of European commentators.  Good stuff.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 12, 2011, 05:55:21 AM
Wow...rugged loss last night. This team is really frustrating to watch right now. In almost every game, they seem to dominate possession early, create all kinds of chances, and be the better team from the kickoff. Yet every game, they run out of steam in the second half and end up giving up a goal. Costa Rica, Belgium, now Ecuador. I don't know if they just aren't well-conditioned enough or if it's that we don't have a poaching forward that can get the final ball after all the first half possession we build. Either way, this clearly isn't working right now.

Also...can we never see Tim Ream again? Why is Omar Gonzalez mulling over switching nationalities and Tim Ream is giving up goals for the national team? Omar should be up in a heartbeat getting caps. He's bigger, stronger, and I honestly believe just better.

*Sigh*

Things may be different under Klinsmann, but the results sure haven't been any better. I know they're just friendlies, but this team needs to show something real soon, because WC qualifying is just around the corner.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUFC9295 on October 20, 2011, 04:03:39 PM
Article from the Journal.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204485304576641102046309850.html?mod=djemITP_h

Say what you will about the rankings, but its clear that Klinsmann is bent on rebuilding a stronger team for many years.  That strategy is likely to cost us wins along the way.  If Plan-K works, we will be far better off than with the slugs who still think Donovan is the FUTURE.  WC Qualifying is really all that matters right now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 20, 2011, 05:47:11 PM
I don't care about the rankings, I just don't want him to be myopic with picks. Tim Ream has no business on this team. Giving him a chance is fine, but he had it. Omar Gonzalez deserves the same chance. If Gonzalez isn't in the MLS playoffs, there's no excuse for him not being called to the next camp in November. And even if LA is in the semifinals on Nov. 9, I still say put him on the list. If they don't make the final, have him fly over to play against France, or at least Slovenia.

This guy is ready now, and might be our best central defender, yet hasn't been called up once. I know it's a long-term process, but losing out on a guy who could be an anchor for our next two World Cup squads is not wise. Didn't we already do that once with Subotic? No need for history to repeat itself again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: PaintTouches on October 22, 2011, 11:05:12 PM
Fox and Telemundo get the TV rights for the 2018 and 2022 world cups. Good or bad for footy in America? Figured readers of this thread would have some good opinions on this.

I think this is terrible for MLS and the Nats. I don't think ESPN will have the incentive to put as much into the MLS as it already has, while getting relegated to Versus or FSC pretty much ensures it remains a 3rd tier sport. Gah, I loved the amount of time and resources ESPN gave the USMNT lately as well. I still see them picking up big games against Mexico or whatnot, but this does not bode well for growing the sport.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 23, 2011, 06:12:24 AM
I don't like that it seems Fox is dominating the soccer scene. While I love FSC and what they have done for the sport, I just don't think a monopoly is any good. I hope that ESPN continues to be the flagship for the USMNT and keeps getting rights to EPL games, simply because competition is good for the sport.

Also, I really hope FSC starts getting carried more broadly. It'd require some mental gymnastics to figure out how to get through all the red tape that surrounds the cable deal our condo complex has that allows only TW Basic (and thus no FSC). Don't get me wrong, I will have FSC for the World Cup, but I wouldn't be happy if I was paying an extra $100 a month for the privilege.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on January 27, 2012, 02:01:03 PM
Thought I would bring this back, with Lando and Clint taking each other on in the FA Cup this afternoon.

COYB.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 27, 2012, 04:28:45 PM
Totally forgot we had this thread...

1. USA Women's team DOMINATING the concacaf olympic qualifying. 31-0 in three games. that's incredible.

2. Anyone have thoughts on USA men vs. Venezuela or Panama?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wildbill sb on January 27, 2012, 04:56:12 PM
1.  As long as Carly Lloyd and Shannon Boxx form the literal center of this team, we ain't going "uptown," baby.  Too slow, not enough ball handling skills.  Retire, ladies, please.

2.  Who are these people Jk is bringing into the team?  Why?  Is he planning a major overhaul?  Not sure second-rate Bundesliga players are the wave of the future.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 27, 2012, 06:28:12 PM
1.  As long as Carly Lloyd and Shannon Boxx form the literal center of this team, we ain't going "uptown," baby.  Too slow, not enough ball handling skills.  Retire, ladies, please.

2.  Who are these people Jk is bringing into the team?  Why?  Is he planning a major overhaul?  Not sure second-rate Bundesliga players are the wave of the future.

1. Agree. Boxx was awful and a detriment in the last WC.

2. This time is always used for bringing in guys to give them their first shot at some national team time.  also, Klinnsman is looking for people for the olympics. Also, the olympics only allows players under the age of 23, with 3 players allowed over 23, for soccer. so, he's gotta find some young talent to take with him. Thought some of the guys looked good - Zusi, Jones (played outstanding both games), Rimando, Lloyd and Sapong. With Cameron and Parkhurst playing better than they have before.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wadesworld on January 27, 2012, 11:56:57 PM
Field farries
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on January 31, 2012, 08:22:42 AM
Field farries

Thanks for the insight.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 31, 2012, 09:43:30 AM
1.  As long as Carly Lloyd and Shannon Boxx form the literal center of this team, we ain't going "uptown," baby.  Too slow, not enough ball handling skills.  Retire, ladies, please.

2.  Who are these people Jk is bringing into the team?  Why?  Is he planning a major overhaul?  Not sure second-rate Bundesliga players are the wave of the future.

1) I don't mind Lloyd, but she's streaky.  When she's on, she is dangerous, but she'll be off and its all lost possessions and rockets well over the net.

2) Are second-rate Bundesliga players any worse than top MLS players with the exception of a few?  I much prefer players with international experience, at least at the club level, because it more mirrors what they will see playing for the USMNT.  And as others have said, its more an audition than a full call up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on January 31, 2012, 09:50:57 AM
As an Evertonian, I am bummed Donovan won't sign for more than a 8 week spell.  He clearly has showed he can play at the EPL level (today's game against City should be a great test).

Curious where Dempsey will go, as is contract is up, and has said he wants to play in the Champions League.  Possibly Germany or France?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 23, 2012, 10:49:45 AM
http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Mens-National-Team/2012/02/Klinsmann-Names-US-Roster-for-Italy.aspx

Lots of international born players selected for this. Should be a great test. Love the Boyd selection (even if he doesn't see the field)

No Brek for this camp. I think that's a first. Also no Agudelo. Interesting choices.

Q & A with Klinsmann

http://www.ussoccer.com/Social/MNT-Blog.aspx
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on February 23, 2012, 07:05:11 PM
Curious where Dempsey will go, as is contract is up, and has said he wants to play in the Champions League.  Possibly Germany or France?


If Garreth Bale leaves Tottenham at the end of the year, could Dempsey take his place?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: muwarrior87 on February 24, 2012, 10:53:07 PM

If Garreth Bale leaves Tottenham at the end of the year, could Dempsey take his place?

Doubtful. Spurs would likely look for a player would likely look at someone like Lucas Podolski before Dempsey, though with a Champions League place all but wrapped up and the strong position they took with Modric last summer, I don't see them losing Bale. In all honesty, I don't see Dempsey as a better option than guys like Kranjcar and Tottenham have a good deal of promising youth loaned out to other Premiership and Championship sides that could fill the void.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on February 25, 2012, 07:40:39 AM
Doubtful. Spurs would likely look for a player would likely look at someone like Lucas Podolski before Dempsey, though with a Champions League place all but wrapped up and the strong position they took with Modric last summer, I don't see them losing Bale. In all honesty, I don't see Dempsey as a better option than guys like Kranjcar and Tottenham have a good deal of promising youth loaned out to other Premiership and Championship sides that could fill the void.

Dempsey is highly thought of and it wouldn't be a shock where he landed.

The bigger key is likely Redknapp. What happens to spuds when he bolts for the England job? There's already a belief that Modric has agreed a move to Chelsea in the summer. Van de Vaart is a known bouncer around. That defense is aged a bit. And up top their best option is loanee.

Wouldn't be that surprising if Bale decides now is the time to jump ship.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: muwarrior87 on February 25, 2012, 01:48:14 PM
Dempsey is highly thought of and it wouldn't be a shock where he landed.

The bigger key is likely Redknapp. What happens to spuds when he bolts for the England job? There's already a belief that Modric has agreed a move to Chelsea in the summer. Van de Vaart is a known bouncer around. That defense is aged a bit. And up top their best option is loanee.

Wouldn't be that surprising if Bale decides now is the time to jump ship.

Modric has said if ManUre come calling, he'd go there before Chelsea. He's interested in winning trophies as well as the pay raise. Levy is a very intelligent Chairman and will do what he can to keep the current crop of players, but I agree with you that whomever replaces Redknapp if he does take the England job has a load of work.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUFC9295 on February 25, 2012, 11:13:40 PM
Modric has said if ManUre come calling, he'd go there before Chelsea. He's interested in winning trophies as well as the pay raise. Levy is a very intelligent Chairman and will do what he can to keep the current crop of players, but I agree with you that whomever replaces Redknapp if he does take the England job has a load of work.
Joe Jordan could easily step up for at least a year following an exit by Harry.  What you really lose is Harry's eye for unknown talent.  Running the first team would not be out of the question for Jordan.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on February 26, 2012, 02:05:11 PM
Modric has said if ManUre come calling, he'd go there before Chelsea. He's interested in winning trophies as well as the pay raise. Levy is a very intelligent Chairman and will do what he can to keep the current crop of players, but I agree with you that whomever replaces Redknapp if he does take the England job has a load of work.

It would seem the holes in Manchester would fit Modric much better but all these "experts" you read/hear on podcasts talk of one of those "wink, wink" deals last summer with Modric/Chelsea (similar to the one in 2010 between Arsenal and Barca over Cesc). Who really knows, right? This talk is always exaggerated.

I think Redknapp is a lock for England and, even with the rightful humbling spuds took today from the Arsenal, they seem to be locked into that 3rd spot for CL next year. It would clearly be an attractive option for any manager one would think.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUFC9295 on February 26, 2012, 05:03:03 PM
Luka should talk to Berbie.  Look how well he's doing these days.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 26, 2012, 09:09:33 PM
http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/story/_/id/7619038/landon-donovan-pulls-us-exhibition-vs-italy

Landon, Jermaine Jones, Timothy Chandler, Jose Torres out for Italy. Klejstan and Brek added to roster. Likely to add 2 more.

Sad to miss Landon and Clint playing together. Would like to have seen Jose's role as defined by Jurgen
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on February 28, 2012, 11:44:59 AM
This commercial is a giant bucket of awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVpHzPCXGNg&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 26, 2012, 10:22:21 AM
Moved from Indy to Chicago around Thanksgiving. Then bought Chicago Fire season tickets with my MU roommate. It's been a GREAT purchase - fantastic atmosphere at toyota park, semi-decent soccer, good prices, 80% of games are on saturdays/sundays, excellent season ticket holder specials (discounts on concessions, merchandise, free parking, etc). Totally worth it and I'd encourage anyone in the area to do the same
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on May 08, 2012, 01:59:51 PM

CHAMPIONS: ManU, ManC, Liverpool, Chelsea

EUROPA: My head says that Arsenal or Tottenham will manage to comeback to grab fifth.  Otherwise perhaps Stoke or Everton???  I just don't trust Villa or Newcastle.

RELEGATED: Blackburn, WBA, Swansea


Well, I got 2 out of 4 on the Champions League...maybe 3 but only if Chelsea wins.  Completely wrong on Liverpool. 

Was wrong not to trust Newcastle.  Was right not to trust Villa.

Got one of the three on the relegation side.

All and all, a pretty poor effort on my part.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 08, 2012, 02:14:10 PM
All I care about is that my Reading team got promoted! Champions of the Championship and I can finally watch them compete in the EPL again. Here's hoping they can pull a Stoke and stick around for awhile this time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on May 08, 2012, 02:45:53 PM

Well, I got 2 out of 4 on the Champions League...maybe 3 but only if Chelsea wins.  Completely wrong on Liverpool. 

Was wrong not to trust Newcastle.  Was right not to trust Villa.

Got one of the three on the relegation side.

All and all, a pretty poor effort on my part.


Speaking of Newcastle

Anybody happen to see this goal from Cisse? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aemXG-jA2tk&feature=related
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 08, 2012, 03:09:28 PM

Well, I got 2 out of 4 on the Champions League...maybe 3 but only if Chelsea wins.  Completely wrong on Liverpool. 

Was wrong not to trust Newcastle.  Was right not to trust Villa.

Got one of the three on the relegation side.

All and all, a pretty poor effort on my part.

You were spot on with Blackburn getting relegated.  The fans were getting a little rowdy after their loss to Wigan, but they wouldn't get their coaches or players off of the pitch!  Blackburn played like they were hungover the entire game.  If I was a fan I would have been pissed too.

How about Wigan though?  They finished the season pretty strong for being crappy this year :)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUFC9295 on May 08, 2012, 03:25:15 PM
Moved from Indy to Chicago around Thanksgiving. Then bought Chicago Fire season tickets with my MU roommate. It's been a GREAT purchase - fantastic atmosphere at toyota park, semi-decent soccer, good prices, 80% of games are on saturdays/sundays, excellent season ticket holder specials (discounts on concessions, merchandise, free parking, etc). Totally worth it and I'd encourage anyone in the area to do the same
I wish I could join you, but...

Fock Bridgeview.  I had season tickets at Soldier Field.  Now I take in 1 or two matches in Madigan-ville.  I won't get over it because each time I go I'm reminded how the Fire alienated its strong Chicago fanbase.  Its sad, because I miss it.  But its far too inconvenient.   Ironically, the easiest time I had getting to the park was when I took my bike from the west loop to a game.  Driving there is awful (from 55 at Harlem) and there is no reasonable mass transit option.

At the matches, its ok.  I've had fun a few times and the tailgating really made it.  But inside they make it out to be some half-a$$ WWE spectacle with fireworks, t-shirts from canons, and all sort of other kitsch.  Great for anyone under 10, but tantamount to trip to Chuck E Cheese. 

Sorry for the whining, but the move to Bridgeview is to me unforgivable.

Have they finished adding the other half of the electronic boards? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on May 13, 2012, 07:07:11 PM
BTW, that may have been the most compelling ending to a sporting event that I have seen in a long time today.  My goodness, the switch in emotions was incredible.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 19, 2012, 01:43:33 PM
I got Chelsea today. Not a Blues fan, but when I'm a neutral and Chelsea's in a final, I always cheer for them in honor of my friend Evan, a rabid Chelsea fan who died a few years ago many years before his time. Helps that Ryan Bertrand, a former Reading FC player, is in the starting XI for Chelsea. Let's go, Blues!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on May 23, 2012, 08:49:27 AM
ANyone attending USMNT v Scotland this saturday in Jacksonville?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on May 24, 2012, 12:44:51 PM
ANyone attending USMNT v Scotland this saturday in Jacksonville?

I'm trying to attend the qualifier vs. Antigua in Tampa and then head down to Guatemala for the one a few days later. Unfortunately, I can't find anyone to go with who wants to make the financial commitment
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 27, 2012, 02:50:14 AM
ANyone attending USMNT v Scotland this saturday in Jacksonville?

One of the most dominating American performances in recent memory. A joy to watch.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on May 27, 2012, 06:35:45 AM
Was awesome in person as well.  Great crowd.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 27, 2012, 08:17:37 AM
Amazing performance. Obviously Donovan deserves the accolades with a hat trick, assist, and the entry pass on the other goal, but the entire team looked solid. Still, big difference between Scotland and Brazil. Looking forward to Wednesday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: chren21 on May 27, 2012, 09:14:45 AM
Amazing performance. Obviously Donovan deserves the accolades with a hat trick, assist, and the entry pass on the other goal, but the entire team looked solid. Still, big difference between Scotland and Brazil. Looking forward to Wednesday.

It was fantastic.  I go back n forth if Torres should be starting or not....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 27, 2012, 10:20:08 AM
After watching the highlights again, I'm still in awe. Yes, it was Scotland, but the US was also without guys like Altidore and Dempsey.

What was great about it was after all those less than inspiring friendlies last year, you could see what Klinsmann is putting in place. Loved the way they built up from the back, through the central midfield. Bradley and Jones were rampant. Good to see them clinical in front of goal as well.

So refreshing after years of 4-4-2, long ball after long ball, and getting overrun in midfield. Will be interested to see how they approach Brazil on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on May 30, 2012, 04:56:22 PM
Much better test tonight.  We'll get a better idea of how the team can execute Klingmann's vision against Brazil.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 30, 2012, 08:02:12 PM
First Half Thoughts:
-Brazil is UNBELIEVABLE in their defensive pressure all over the field
-Handball was terrible call.
-Fabian Johnson is going to be a stud (where will Jurgen put Lichaj when he's back to 100%?)
-Dolo, Gooch and Boca CANNOT be in our starting lineup for the next WC
-Michael Bradley keeps improving in every national team game he plays in - fantastic ball he played on the goal
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on May 30, 2012, 09:09:17 PM
 I think we have a ways to go.  Defense was shoddy and possession was spotty.  Of course, Brazil had a lot to do with both.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on May 30, 2012, 09:41:27 PM
Gooch looked to be a step (or 2) slow the entire match. 

I did love dempsey's chirp chirp to a Brazil player whose name I can't remember. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on June 12, 2012, 03:53:36 PM
Big USMNT against Guatamela tonight, hopefully I can find a free stream online, if I do, I will post.

Anyone watching the Euro's, my French looked solid yesterday against an England team that dug themselves into a bunker after scoring.  Still think Portugal has the talent to advance, and Croatia looked awesome the other day against the Irish.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 12, 2012, 03:57:59 PM
Big USMNT against Guatamela tonight, hopefully I can find a free stream online, if I do, I will post.

Anyone watching the Euro's, my French looked solid yesterday against an England team that dug themselves into a bunker after scoring.  Still think Portugal has the talent to advance, and Croatia looked awesome the other day against the Irish.

For those in MKE, The Highbury has picked up the PPV feed tonight. Head on down there and thank Joe the owner by buying a couple drinks.

This has been a great tournament thus far. Shevchenko's performance yesterday in Kiev was stirring. Poland-Russia was a fantastic game. Interestingly enough, the matches that provided the most intrigue on paper have been a little flat. Spain and Italy only picked up after Fabregas scored. Germany-Netherlands should be good, since the Dutch have to go for it.

Saturday in Group A should be a blast. All four teams are still alive, and the matches will be played simultaneously.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 12, 2012, 04:15:01 PM
Big USMNT against Guatamela tonight, hopefully I can find a free stream online, if I do, I will post.

Anyone watching the Euro's, my French looked solid yesterday against an England team that dug themselves into a bunker after scoring.  Still think Portugal has the talent to advance, and Croatia looked awesome the other day against the Irish.

Thanks to ESPN3, and my ability to be in front of a computer at work all day, i've seen every match on the weekdays. it's been a great tourney so far. Anyone else notice the refs are really letting them play? - not calling many flops/bad fouls.

I think Russia looked good in their first match. The host countries have played well thus far, adding more excitement to the tourney.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 14, 2012, 09:12:05 AM
Great link for the tourney

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2012/tournament-calendar/index.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on June 14, 2012, 10:20:00 AM
Any guesses how many goals Spain will put up today against Ireland?  Set the over/under 4.5.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on June 14, 2012, 10:34:50 AM
Any guesses how many goals Spain will put up today against Ireland?  Set the over/under 4.5.



Over half of their 2010 World Cup total in one game?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 06, 2012, 05:40:46 PM
Guys, if you didn't see it, the USA/Canada Women's Olympic Semifinal today was quite possibly the best ever football match I've seen in my life. Watched it at Highbury with about 25 other fans and the atmosphere was the best I've seen for a women's match, including the WC Final last year. And the game...it was simply stunningly good. Punch, counter-punch, Kristine Sinclair had one of the most impressive individual performances I've ever seen, with Megan Rapinoe doing her best to match her at every turn.

I'd consider it also one of the best games of any sport, any level, I've ever seen period. I could gush about that game all day long, it was fantastic. If you have a chance to see a replay, do it. Absolutely brilliant sport at the highest possible level.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on August 06, 2012, 06:18:34 PM
Absolutely agree... Ref let them play and it was fantatstic. Sinclair was phenominal and almost singlehandedly beat the US side.
Rapinoe and Morgan led the red,white and blue with all out efforts for the entire 120 minutes of non-stop high quality competition.
Bet match I have seen in person or on T.V.  and have been to  Women's World Cup
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on August 07, 2012, 07:42:11 AM
Canada is whining...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--fresh-take--alex-morgan-s-last-second-goal-gives-u-s--the-win-over-a-bitter-canada.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Bocephys on August 07, 2012, 11:25:45 AM
Canada is whining...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--fresh-take--alex-morgan-s-last-second-goal-gives-u-s--the-win-over-a-bitter-canada.html

They kind of have a point.  I thought the US was very fortunate on a number of calls.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on August 07, 2012, 11:33:16 AM
It was a great game.   It is the first time during this olympics that I have actually felt interested in what I was watching.   And yes, the USA team benefitted from some weak calls.   Canada has a right to whine.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 07, 2012, 11:40:45 AM
The ref kept her cards in her pocket too long and swallowed her whistle on a number of occasions for both sides. It looked like it benefited the Canadians more because the US is a stronger, more physical team. But the calls went both ways.

The indirect free kick call was questionable and surprising, though the penalty that ensued from it was clear-cut. If the Canadians didn't want a penalty conceded, keep your hands down and stay on your line.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 07, 2012, 12:52:54 PM
The ref kept her cards in her pocket too long and swallowed her whistle on a number of occasions for both sides. It looked like it benefited the Canadians more because the US is a stronger, more physical team. But the calls went both ways.

The indirect free kick call was questionable and surprising, though the penalty that ensued from it was clear-cut. If the Canadians didn't want a penalty conceded, keep your hands down and stay on your line.

Exactly this.  Calls go against both teams... and officials aren't perfect.  Trancedi was borderline abusive the entire game and didn't even draw a yellow.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on August 07, 2012, 01:39:15 PM
Exactly this.  Calls go against both teams... and officials aren't perfect.  Trancedi was borderline abusive the entire game and didn't even draw a yellow.

Including stomping on Carli Lloyd's head. A shove in Morgan's back that could have been a penalty. Elbows at Wambach every time she went up for a header. The Canadians have no room to bitch about it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on August 07, 2012, 02:11:58 PM
I never realized chick futbol was this popular, is it more competitive than the WNBA?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 07, 2012, 02:37:36 PM
Including stomping on Carli Lloyd's head. A shove in Morgan's back that could have been a penalty. Elbows at Wambach every time she went up for a header. The Canadians have no room to bitch about it.

During the match, I thought the biggest talking point after would be the official allowing Tancredi to remain in the game during the extra period. Tancredi did just about all she could to get a second booking.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 08, 2012, 01:43:26 PM
I got a chance to watch the second half and all of extra time. An exciting game, to be sure, but certainly lacking on the defensive ends.

I didn't hear about/see the head stomp until today - Tancredi does her best impression of Detroit's Suh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3ggsT2HWkc&feature=player_embedded 

The handball call, while rare, was completely fair and within the laws of the game. Like someone else said, if you don't want it called, keep your hands down. I also thought it hit off two players' hands which warranted the call for sure.

I've never seen the GK rule called in a game. Guess it was more obvious to the players on the field http://espn.go.com/olympics/summer/2012/soccer/story/_/id/8244353/2012-summer-olympics-abby-wambach-drew-ref-attention-canadian-gk
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on August 18, 2012, 10:06:42 AM
My 2012-13 EPL Predictions:

1. United
2. City
3. Chelsea
4. Tottenham
5. Arsenal
6. Newcastle


18. Southampton
19. Norwich
20. Wigan
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on August 18, 2012, 11:16:20 AM
Curious to see where Dempsey ends up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 18, 2012, 04:37:10 PM
My 2012-13 EPL Predictions:

1. City
2. Chel$ki
3. United
4. Arsenal
5. Spurs
6. Reading

18. Norwich
19. Swansea
20. West Brom
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 77ncaachamps on August 18, 2012, 07:16:57 PM
Exactly this.  Calls go against both teams... and officials aren't perfect.  Trancedi was borderline abusive the entire game and didn't even draw a yellow.

Please don't bring this up during college basketball season, ESP after losses! Lol
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 19, 2012, 12:19:18 PM
I love watching City. Love, love, love. I get why people hate them, but over here, let's be honest. 95% of American fans of the Premiership are glory-hunters, picking one of United, Chelsea, Arsenal, or Liverpool. So why not pick City? They're just as viable a glory-hunting side as any, and they are much more fun to watch than any of the others.

I'm not a City fan, I support Reading. But I sure am thankful for City. By far the most entertaining side in the history of the Premiership.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 20, 2012, 08:49:47 AM
I love watching City. Love, love, love. I get why people hate them, but over here, let's be honest. 95% of American fans of the Premiership are glory-hunters, picking one of United, Chelsea, Arsenal, or Liverpool. So why not pick City? They're just as viable a glory-hunting side as any, and they are much more fun to watch than any of the others.

I'm not a City fan, I support Reading. But I sure am thankful for City. By far the most entertaining side in the history of the Premiership.

Yeah, if you started following the Premier League 72 hours ago.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on August 20, 2012, 12:50:12 PM
Yeah, if you started following the Premier League 72 hours ago.

Nice.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 12, 2012, 09:24:08 PM
For my bachelor party, my buddies and I went down to Columbus for the USA/Jamaica World Cup Qualifier last night. Great atmosphere and had an absolute blast in Columbus, that city really surprised me at how large it is, how nice the downtown area is, and that they can actually draw a pro-USA crowd to an international match. Anyway, here's the video of the goal from the cheap seats:

http://www.youtube.com/v/5K8kKd0Fty8
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: robmufan on September 14, 2012, 02:55:17 PM
For my bachelor party, my buddies and I went down to Columbus for the USA/Jamaica World Cup Qualifier last night. Great atmosphere and had an absolute blast in Columbus, that city really surprised me at how large it is, how nice the downtown area is, and that they can actually draw a pro-USA crowd to an international match. Anyway, here's the video of the goal from the cheap seats:


Me and my buddy were in the American Outlaws section.  I agree, Columbus was a great city to host that game.  If they play there next year for the final round, I will definitely try to attend.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: caltruda on October 09, 2012, 02:33:07 PM
Thought I'd give the thread a bump with the last two qualifiers coming up this week. Little bit of nerves considering the U.S. needs probably four points to reach the final hexagonal, and the pissing match between Klinsmann and Altidore (name me a 22-year-old that isn't headstrong, and yes, he didn't play well in the last two US matches, but the guy has eight goals in eight matches in league play) to the point he left him off the roster is a little unsettling.

That said, Donovan and Bradley are back, which will make the U.S. much stronger up the middle than it was in the two matches versus Jamaica. And lastly, speaking of Jamaica, can someone tell me WHY Beckerman is on the roster after the crapshow he produced in Kingston?!?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 09, 2012, 03:40:16 PM
Thought I'd give the thread a bump with the last two qualifiers coming up this week. Little bit of nerves considering the U.S. needs probably four points to reach the final hexagonal, and the pissing match between Klinsmann and Altidore (name me a 22-year-old that isn't headstrong, and yes, he didn't play well in the last two US matches, but the guy has eight goals in eight matches in league play) to the point he left him off the roster is a little unsettling.

That said, Donovan and Bradley are back, which will make the U.S. much stronger up the middle than it was in the two matches versus Jamaica. And lastly, speaking of Jamaica, can someone tell me WHY Beckerman is on the roster after the crapshow he produced in Kingston?!?

Donovan is injured as is Brek, so not sure how much time they'll see on the field. Interesting inclusions with Gordon and EJ up front. As for Altidore... I'm not sure, honestly. Maybe Jurgen thinks this will light a fire under Jozy and he'll be invited for the second game (guatemala). If I had to guess, I'd say a 4-1-3-2 with howard, johnson-boca/goodson-cameron-cherundolo, williams, jones-bradley-zusi/shea, gomez-dempsey.


Altidore story: http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2012/10/klinsmann-discusses-altidores-absence-from-usmnt-roster.html#more
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: caltruda on October 09, 2012, 05:06:48 PM
Donovan ruled out due to the knee injury suffered this weekend, and Shea also ruled out. That may make it a 4-2-3-1 with Edu and Jones holding midfielders (which puts Jones 50/50 of getting a second yellow on a rash challenge that will rule him out of the Guatemala match). Curious to see if Klinsi lets Dempsey and Gomez run off each other with Bradley and Zusi serving as playmakers. This team got a huge break with how the schedule broke out for these last two matchdays.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 09, 2012, 06:37:01 PM
Donovan ruled out due to the knee injury suffered this weekend, and Shea also ruled out. That may make it a 4-2-3-1 with Edu and Jones holding midfielders (which puts Jones 50/50 of getting a second yellow on a rash challenge that will rule him out of the Guatemala match). Curious to see if Klinsi lets Dempsey and Gomez run off each other with Bradley and Zusi serving as playmakers. This team got a huge break with how the schedule broke out for these last two matchdays.

I still see a 4-1-3-2. Either way, I think Danny Williams gets the nod over edu due to 1. Edu lack p of playing time at the club level and 2. Jk seems to picture edu as a back line guy more than in the middle
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 10, 2012, 07:07:32 PM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2012/10/chandler-not-called-up-by-klinsmann-for-qualifiers.html#more

interesting....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 10, 2012, 09:57:20 PM
No Altidore or Boyd, continuing to leave Chandler out, now not calling replacements for Donovan and Shea? Klinsy better know what he's doing. If we don't qualify for the Hexagonal, he should be fired before the clock strikes midnight on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 11, 2012, 09:04:37 AM
No Altidore or Boyd, continuing to leave Chandler out, now not calling replacements for Donovan and Shea? Klinsy better know what he's doing. If we don't qualify for the Hexagonal, he should be fired before the clock strikes midnight on Tuesday.

Altidore has struggled under Klinsmann. No shock he wasn't called in with his spotty training attitude. As for Chandler, it's all been his decision to stall on the US until this week. I'm surprised people are surprised Klinsmann didn't call him in.

Qualification above anything but I'm taken aback by the sudden charge of football brains since Klinsmann has been brought in to transform an entire Federation that had serious deficiencies for quite some time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: PaintTouches on October 11, 2012, 09:20:30 AM
Normally I would agree that the criticism seems a bit extreme, but his selections for these 2 EXTREMELY important qualifiers were not just bad, they were embarrassing. It goes beyond leaving Altidore (those two obviously have some bad blood) or Chandler (there's only so many times you can get spurned before you finally stop trying) out, it's who he brought in.

Every single fan knew Brek would not be able to play, yet he was called in. Donovan may have oversold his health, but not having a replacement ready is inexcusable. Then to not call Lichaj when your two LBs will be unable to play (Johson has the flu and Castillo picked up a knock in practice) is just strange. Now they face two crucial games without true wingers or left backs.

All of that put together is what makes this situation so frustrating. Sure Gordon and EJ are good in the air, but what's the point if there's no one to cross the ball to them. Altidore may not be at top form with the Nats, but his goal scoring prowess in Holland should count for something. Same for Wondo, who as limited in talent as he may be, is head over heels better than EJ or Gordon.

They should still advance, but facing must win games with a B team will never endear a coach to its fans.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 11, 2012, 09:48:02 AM
I understand why Chandler was left out, but losing our 2 LB options, our two best wingers, and leaving out our top two strikers in terms of club form...well, desperate times, isn't is? If Chandler is willing to become cup-tied to the US, you do it and take away the option if him going back to Germany, not that they want him anyway. I know Altidore hasn't had top form for the nats, but what he's doing in Holland, a better league than the MLS, shouldn't be discounted for guys that also haven't done anything at the NT level recently either. And not adding Lichaj while saying "anyone can play LB", well that's just silly, especially when you consider that in the past 15 years, our best LB was probably David Regis.

We need to be able to score at A&B. That game is a must-win, if they hold out for a goalless draw, honestly I could see an argument for Klinsmann not managing Tuesday's game. I know he was a hire made with the long-term in mind, but coming 3rd in this group that frankly isn't all that strong would be inexcusable. And acting as though these injuries were part of the plan (why else wouldn't he make some emergency call-ups?) is just a bit unnerving.

Either way, tomorrow should never have been a must-win situation.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 11, 2012, 10:01:16 AM
Yeah, it doesn't matter what he has done to fix USA Soccer if they guy can't get the US into even the final round of qualifying for the world cup.

BTW, if MLS was a European league, where would it rank?  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 11, 2012, 10:10:59 AM
Yeah, it doesn't matter what he has done to fix USA Soccer if they guy can't get the US into even the final round of qualifying for the world cup.

BTW, if MLS was a European league, where would it rank?  Thoughts?

The EPL, La Liga, and Serie A are definitely the top 3 leagues. The next tier is led by the Bundesliga and I'd include Portugal, France, Russia, and Holland. I think the MLS would probably be on par with the third tier of leagues, where I'd put the Greek, Turkish, Danish, and Belgian leagues. They have some good teams and players that could compete in top leagues, but not nearly the consistency of talent you find in the top 7-8 leagues.

Just my guess, though. If you're looking at just England, I'd say probably high League One to low Championship level.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 11, 2012, 10:14:39 AM
OK, that is actually a little better than I thought.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: PaintTouches on October 11, 2012, 10:20:56 AM
No real research done behind this but here's my crack at it:

1)EPL
2)La Liga
3)Bundesliga
4)Serie A
5)France
6)Holland
7)Portugal
8)Turkey
9)Russia
10)Mexico
11)Greece
12)MLS
13)Belgium
14)The rest

The MLS has been mining young Latin America very well, and has managed it's DP signings smartly, so the league doesn't become a retirement league for over the hill stars looking for one more pay day. I honestly believe the MLS will overtake the Mexican league within the next 3 or 4 years. The pay will never reach the MX League, but the living conditions and opportunity for advancement is greater for players here. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 12, 2012, 05:58:02 PM
I'd rather wait until the event occurs before I decide to jump off the bridge. Novel concept. But I get that stressing and needling is hand-in-hand with sports these days.

The two best players this country has at the moment are in the squad. The relative intelligence of the squad is higher in terms of tactics than perhaps any time in history. And, they're playing unnatural carnal knowledgeing Antigua & Barbuda.

Let's see what happens now.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 12, 2012, 07:58:24 PM
They beat A&B 2-1 on a stoppage time goal...by Eddie Johnson. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 13, 2012, 05:35:10 AM
This team frustrates the hell out of me. For all the positives we've seen since Klinsmann took over, there are just as many worries. Our back line isn't nearly as cohesive, after scoring we always seem susceptible to giving it right back, we are rarely able to put our foot down and seal the game. I really want to believe in the Klinsmann project, but I've been a skeptic since he was hired, and if this is what we're going to get, I don't see why Bob Bradley was fired. Two things I feel positive of, we wouldn't have given up so many setpiece goals with Bob at the helm and we would have qualified for the Hex by now.

We have a good team. On our day, we can beat anyone. But we are maddeningly inconsistent and simply not there yet as an international team. It's really too bad we pissed away the lead in the Confederations Cup Final 3 years ago. I have a feeling that is the closest I'll ever see us get to winning a (semi-) major trophy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 13, 2012, 10:57:54 PM
This team frustrates the hell out of me. For all the positives we've seen since Klinsmann took over, there are just as many worries. Our back line isn't nearly as cohesive, after scoring we always seem susceptible to giving it right back, we are rarely able to put our foot down and seal the game. I really want to believe in the Klinsmann project, but I've been a skeptic since he was hired, and if this is what we're going to get, I don't see why Bob Bradley was fired. Two things I feel positive of, we wouldn't have given up so many setpiece goals with Bob at the helm and we would have qualified for the Hex by now.

We have a good team. On our day, we can beat anyone. But we are maddeningly inconsistent and simply not there yet as an international team. It's really too bad we pissed away the lead in the Confederations Cup Final 3 years ago. I have a feeling that is the closest I'll ever see us get to winning a (semi-) major trophy.

agreed about the consistency. definitely frustrating. I think Bradley had to go as we had maximized our potential with him at the helm. However, in Bradley's case, we almost always held the same formation, with the same tactics, with the same players in the same roles. In the case of Klinsmann, it seems like most of our problems arise from no consistent starters, no consistent formation, no consistent tactics/strategy and no consistent roles for the starters. When it Klinsmann going to find a rotation and stick to it? As well as a formation/tactic we can rely on.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: robmufan on October 17, 2012, 12:01:04 PM
Another 3 pts, and a lock for the Hex round.  By looking at the teams involved...there is no reason why the US should not qualify (with a healthy team).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 17, 2012, 12:56:22 PM
Waiting for the riposte on the strange selections of Klinsmann after the few days of teeth gnashing prior to either of the two matches being played and it seems to be large chorus of crickets. Six points will do that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: robmufan on October 17, 2012, 04:05:35 PM
There have been a rash of injuries, hopefully we will see the full team going forward next year.  The defense has to get better if they want to do any damage in Brazil!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: caltruda on October 17, 2012, 04:12:27 PM
I'm willing to eat crow for these two matches. However, I maintain picking a public fight with a striker who can be (operational phrase: can be) the focal offensive point in 2014 and especially post-2014 given the lack of proven scoring depth is unwise. And some of that attitude probably came from Klinsi's tactics and personnel choices that led to woeful service that didn't play to Altidore's best skill set.

I understand the semifinal round has a far less margin of error than the hex, but progressing should not have come down to getting two non-loss results the final two matchdays.

This match showed how much this team needs Dempsey version EPL and Bradley version Serie A in the outfield to be a team not only capable of beating a world power but a team with a viable chance to scrape out at least one point from every match in the hex against teams not named Mexico in 2013.

The back line is still a mess... whether it be age, lack of communication, lack of talent, lack of speed, lack of consistency, lack of whatever. They gave up goals in five of the six matches, including both against A/B. Howard is still asked to clean up far too many messes than any comparable world-class 'keeper.

I know there are cycles within cycles as a team builds. Even with Altidore in the wilderness, the offense of the national team is ahead of the defense in terms of field players. And even as presently constructed, it would take a miracle for them not to qualify for Rio. However, I don't think it's wrong to hold this team to a higher expectations given what Klinsmann has professed he wants to instill.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 17, 2012, 04:19:21 PM
Guatemala wasn't the toughest of opponents.  I think this team is clearly behind Mexico.  But they are above the rest of the Concacaf group.  My guess is that 17 points gets them there.

If they can go 3-1-1 (10 points) at home, and 2-2-1 on the road (7 points), that should be good enough.  (In 2010, they went 4-0-1 and 2-2-1 on the road.)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 18, 2012, 09:40:54 AM
The back line is still a mess... whether it be age, lack of communication, lack of talent, lack of speed, lack of consistency, lack of whatever. They gave up goals in five of the six matches, including both against A/B. Howard is still asked to clean up far too many messes than any comparable world-class 'keeper.

I know there are cycles within cycles as a team builds. Even with Altidore in the wilderness, the offense of the national team is ahead of the defense in terms of field players. And even as presently constructed, it would take a miracle for them not to qualify for Rio. However, I don't think it's wrong to hold this team to a higher expectations given what Klinsmann has professed he wants to instill.

The early goal against seemed to be a running theme from the end of Bradley's tenure into Klinsmann's. Of course the only thing that has remained the same is the players but is it that easy to determine the fault? Add to it defenders playing different positions between their time at a club and their time in the USA shirt and it's no shock it looks like a house fire back there.

The front third of the team as a collective is perhaps its most talented in decades which is exciting considering the brutal stretches some of us have witnessed in simply attempting a scoring chance much less converting. Because of this you won't see Klinsmann feel obliged to any certain player since he's much more capable of taking a chance on a resurgent player or a youngster.

In the end, the team will qualify and placed into a typical group that will include one heavyweight, one country a level above, and one country a level below. It's just a matter of whether the key components are on form in June 2014 and seeing how far away that is none of these results ever give me much bother.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 18, 2012, 10:36:24 AM
The Hexagonal is going to be tough. Very, very tough. What scares me is that Klinsmann has shown me nothing to believe he can get points in Central America. Jamaica making it in really helps, but bear in mind how much trouble we had with them both home and away, and consider that they are by far the easiest team we'll face in the Hex.

Since the start of the Hexagonal, only one team has advanced to the World Cup with less than 16 points, so I think that's the minimum we should be aiming for. Sultan's figure of 17 is probably a safer bet for automatic qualification and not having to win a play-off with New Zealand.

The biggest problem is road points. We should expect to lose at Mexico. Honestly, based off third-round form, I expect to lose at Honduras and Costa Rica as well. Guatemala and Jamaica aren't nearly as good as either the Catrachos or Ticos, and we earned a combined 1 road point off those two in the last round. So looking objectively, if we get 1 point combined out of the Central America powers, that's probably as good as we can hope for and means we either need to win both at Jamaica and at Panama (also very tough place to play) or get at least 12 points at home.

Quite simply, we need to be better. Our back line needs to be tighter and more disciplined. We have to stop giving up so many quality setpiece opportunities. We need a style that suits who is playing at the time. You can't build your attack around big target men if you don't have anyone playing wide that can provide them with reliable service. What we got away with against A&B and Guatemala simply won't work against teams that have actual World Cup aspirations. Hell, Guatemala was missing four of their top five central defenders, and we still struggled to break them down. That won't be good enough against Honduran or Costa Rican first choice defenders, and certainly not against Mexico.

I know we can blame injuries, but that's a crap excuse. You play the hand you're dealt. There's no guarantee that Holden, Castillo, Shea, Johnson, or Donovan will be fit for the Hex. And Klinsmann can't keep holding these grudges. Jozy is in fine form, he needs to get the call. I know Timmy Chandler's ego was an issue, but if he's willing to be cup-tied to us, you take him, especially when you have no other wide players.

Perhaps most important, we NEED to use our home games to our advantage. No games in Houston, Chicago, or New York where our own fans will be outnumbered in a "home" stadium. Columbus, Kansas City, Seattle, SLC, Portland, these are the places we need to play. And Mexico has to be in Columbus. I really think we need at least 12 points at home to qualify, more likely 13 or 15 (like we did for 2006 and 2010). I've never felt as unassured going into the Hex as I do this year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: PaintTouches on October 18, 2012, 11:16:28 AM
While you do make some salient point Brew, I don't think the U.S. has much to fear. If you remember, Mexico literally had to beg Honduras to stop scoring (I'd embed the video of Oswaldo telling an Honduran player but I can't at work) in order to make it into the Hex last time around. Yet, the Hex was a relative breeze, as Mexico qualified comfortably with a game to spare.

I was very critical of Jurgen's selection and just because they beat A&B with a 90th minute goal and a depleted Guatemalan side at home doesn't change the fact that he played with fire. Donovan and Brek were still injured and should have been left home. No offense to Michael Parkhurst, but it's criminal to have a player with no left foot and very little attacking prowess playing left back against teams that will bunker in. Likewise, leaving Jozy of the roster serves no purpose other than to "light a fire," a risky proposition to make in due or die situations. Eddie had a great two games, but I'd put my trust in an in-form Jozy over him any day, particularly looking forward to 2014.

Ultimately, Jurgen is a critical stepping stone for U.S. progress. He is not a great tactical coach by any means, but the system and mentality he is laying (particularly in the youth levels) was and is what the doctor ordered. I have no qualms with him at the helm the next two years, but not beyond that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on October 18, 2012, 11:37:15 AM
Brew, I get your points about having a true home field advantage, but there is no way we will schedule games in Portland and Seattle b/c they are both field turf, and not grass. 

So you can include C'Bus, KC, Salt, also Nashville, and Hartford as other possible "true" home field advantage sites in soccer-specific, grass fields.  If the US Fed needs a NFL size stadium for the revenue, I would vote RFK over Chicago, Dallas, Tampa...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 18, 2012, 11:39:13 AM
I agree with much of that. I think Jurgen could have long-term benefits, but I worry about the cost. We have never won at Costa Rica in the Hex and have been outscored 11-3 there. It is highly unlikely we will get anything at the Azteca. And to get points out of Panama or Honduras, we need good selections.

When our top two LBs went down, why didn't Eric Lichaj get a call? As you note, Parkhurst was senseless. When Graham Zusi is our best available winger, there's a problem. Why not push Dempsey wide (he was near-useless against A&B) or call up Chandler or some of the younger kids? And no Altidore nor Boyd was just silly. So while it's easy to say that we succeeded despite some questionable (at best) choices, what expectation should we have of more sensible choices when the level of competition goes up?

I still think we will qualify for the World Cup. I still think we are the second most talented team in the region and think we can get 17 points. But I look at where this team is and we've clearly moved back from just 2 years ago. We haven't found anyone to replace Donovan or Dempsey and both are aging. We've traded an in-their-prime defense of Boca, Dolo, Gooch, and DeMerit for Boca, Dolo (both 35 in 2014), Fab, and Cameron. We still have no strikers that give much hope, and the ones we do have can't get a match because of a grudge from the manager. These are near-unforgivable sins. We're regressing, not progressing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 18, 2012, 01:32:13 PM
I agree with much of that. I think Jurgen could have long-term benefits, but I worry about the cost. We have never won at Costa Rica in the Hex and have been outscored 11-3 there. It is highly unlikely we will get anything at the Azteca. And to get points out of Panama or Honduras, we need good selections.

When our top two LBs went down, why didn't Eric Lichaj get a call? As you note, Parkhurst was senseless. When Graham Zusi is our best available winger, there's a problem. Why not push Dempsey wide (he was near-useless against A&B) or call up Chandler or some of the younger kids? And no Altidore nor Boyd was just silly. So while it's easy to say that we succeeded despite some questionable (at best) choices, what expectation should we have of more sensible choices when the level of competition goes up?

I still think we will qualify for the World Cup. I still think we are the second most talented team in the region and think we can get 17 points. But I look at where this team is and we've clearly moved back from just 2 years ago. We haven't found anyone to replace Donovan or Dempsey and both are aging. We've traded an in-their-prime defense of Boca, Dolo, Gooch, and DeMerit for Boca, Dolo (both 35 in 2014), Fab, and Cameron. We still have no strikers that give much hope, and the ones we do have can't get a match because of a grudge from the manager. These are near-unforgivable sins. We're regressing, not progressing.

Spot on with the criticisms of keeping an injured Donovan and Shea on the team and not making any call ups. Where's Lichaj? Where's Adu? Where's Gatt, Gyau? Where's the plethora of young CBs?

I'm supremely optimistic about what Klinsmann will do with the youth and scouting networks and that will pay off in a decade, but as for now...? not too optimistic. I honestly believe Jurgen should have been hired as Technical Director, not head coach.

In comparing Bradley vs. Klinsmann, I think Bradley understood the style and tactics it takes to get points in CONCACAF (field conditions, field size, opposing team abilities), but may have lacked the technical acumen to win against Europe, etc. I think Klinsmann is the opposite - he tries to build our team in style and players for competition against France on a beautiful, wide-open pitch, without factoring in playing against Jamaica in the rain on a s*** field. It will be interesting to see if JK adjusts for away games in the Hex.

Also, to be fair to JK, both Arena and Bradley relied on a number of the same players without developing much youth, leaving JK without many young, talented choices in the player pool. I think he's been trying to catch up with that deficit during qualifying.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 18, 2012, 02:24:39 PM
I'm with you on most of what you said, and I agree that philosophically, Klinsmann's style better suits a wide-open, WC style game. What worries me is about that is whether or not we have players with the requisite technical ability to pull off such a system. However, I disagree with this...

Also, to be fair to JK, both Arena and Bradley relied on a number of the same players without developing much youth, leaving JK without many young, talented choices in the player pool. I think he's been trying to catch up with that deficit during qualifying.

Bob Bradley gave chances to more young players than any other American coach ever has. I realize not all of these guys worked out, but all of these players were given a chance under Bradley:

Keepers: Troy Perkins, Luis Robles, Nick Rimando, David Yelldell, Sean Johnson

Defenders: Johnathan Bornstein, Bryan Namoff, Frank Simek, Jay DeMerit, Marvel Wynne, Drew Moor, Heath Pearce, Danny Szetela, Chad Barrett, Michael Orozco Fiscal, Michael Parkhurst, Clarence Goodson, Jay Heaps, Omar Gonzalez, Eric Lichaj, Gale Agbossoumonde, Tim Ream, Nat Borchers, Sean Franklin, Zach Loyd, Timmy Chandler

Midfielders: Kyle Beckerman, Justin Mapp, Benny Feilhaber, Sacha Kljestan, Ben Olsen, Sal Zizzo, Maurice Edu, Lee Nguyen, Robbie Rogers, Jose Torres, Stuart Holden, Logan Pause, Sam Cronin, Alejandro Bedoya, Jermaine Jones, Brek Shea, Mix Diskerud, Jeff Larentowicz, Anthony Wallace

Forwards: Kenny Cooper, Herculez Gomez, Davy Arnaud, Kamani Hill, Robbie Findley, Jozy Altidore, Charlie Davies, Conor Casey, Dax McCarty, Juan Agudelo, Teal Bunbury, Chris Wondolowski

During the 2010 World Cup cycle, Bradley gave more debuts and used more players than any other USA manager had ever used. And while it's accurate to say that he eventually settled into a consistent group of players, by the end that group included Howard, Cherundolo, Bocanegra, Goodson, Bradley, Jones, Donovan, and Dempsey. That's 8 of Jurgen Klinsmann's current 11 first-choice starters, so it isn't as if JK has been mixing it up or trying to utilize different players from the pool.

I understand why Bradley was fired, and understand why many (myself included) thought it was time for him to go, but relying on the same group of players without trying to develop the youth simply wasn't it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 18, 2012, 02:58:21 PM
One interesting, non-related talking point. Does anyone think that Landon Donovan will break the all-time international caps record? Donovan at age 30 has 144 international caps, 20 behind Cobi Jones for the USA record and 40 behind Ahmed Hassan with 184 for Egypt.

Donovan only earned 6 caps this year, but if healthy will have the opportunity for many more in the next 2 years. In 2013 and 2014, we will most likely play at least 20 major international matches (Qualifiers, Gold Cup, World Cup) and another 10-15 friendlies. I have to think a healthy Donovan would play in 25 of those matches, putting him at 169 after the next World Cup.

The question at that point, would he continue? He'd be age 32, not young, but not automatic retirement age. Both Bocanegra and Cherundolo are already older than that. If LD played one more year through the 2015 Gold Cup, he'd almost certainly pass Claudio Suarez for the most caps ever by a CONCACAF player (178) and could be right on the heels of Hassan.

However...the 37-year-old Hassan is still playing internationally and his goal is to play in the 2014 World Cup. Between qualification and the World Cup, Hassan could play as many as 16 more games, leaving him at 200 caps. Could Donovan reach that total?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 18, 2012, 04:35:29 PM
One interesting, non-related talking point. Does anyone think that Landon Donovan will break the all-time international caps record? Donovan at age 30 has 144 international caps, 20 behind Cobi Jones for the USA record and 40 behind Ahmed Hassan with 184 for Egypt.

Donovan only earned 6 caps this year, but if healthy will have the opportunity for many more in the next 2 years. In 2013 and 2014, we will most likely play at least 20 major international matches (Qualifiers, Gold Cup, World Cup) and another 10-15 friendlies. I have to think a healthy Donovan would play in 25 of those matches, putting him at 169 after the next World Cup.

The question at that point, would he continue? He'd be age 32, not young, but not automatic retirement age. Both Bocanegra and Cherundolo are already older than that. If LD played one more year through the 2015 Gold Cup, he'd almost certainly pass Claudio Suarez for the most caps ever by a CONCACAF player (178) and could be right on the heels of Hassan.

However...the 37-year-old Hassan is still playing internationally and his goal is to play in the 2014 World Cup. Between qualification and the World Cup, Hassan could play as many as 16 more games, leaving him at 200 caps. Could Donovan reach that total?

Good question. Donovan has been extremely successful as a player because, mostly, of his pace. At 30+, that's going to decrease significantly.  To continue to be a factor in the USMNT going past 31/32, he would have to develop/alter his game (sort of like Jordan when he became a jump shooter). This transformation could be helped by Klinsmann as he bases his strategy around buildup and possession rather than pure speed/counterattacking.  I'm not sure if LD has the IQ/technical ability to turn into a holding/playmaking CM (like Pierlo from Italy) where his physical traits wouldn't be as big a factor, but I'm pretty sure that's what he'd have to do to play into mid, late 30s
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 19, 2012, 09:23:02 AM
Good question. Donovan has been extremely successful as a player because, mostly, of his pace. At 30+, that's going to decrease significantly.  To continue to be a factor in the USMNT going past 31/32, he would have to develop/alter his game (sort of like Jordan when he became a jump shooter). This transformation could be helped by Klinsmann as he bases his strategy around buildup and possession rather than pure speed/counterattacking.  I'm not sure if LD has the IQ/technical ability to turn into a holding/playmaking CM (like Pierlo from Italy) where his physical traits wouldn't be as big a factor, but I'm pretty sure that's what he'd have to do to play into mid, late 30s

Donovan has always kind of been a selfish player.  A fantastic player, but a selfish one no less.  Doesn't like/almost refuses to play defense, doesn't adjust his game when its not been going well.  Never really had the urge to make himself even better by spending full seasons in Europe playing against the best.  Part of it is not his fault as he has been US Soccer's golden boy for so long.  But still.  So asking him to completely change position and fall back into a CM role seems unlikely.  He and Michael Bradley are complete opposites in terms of style and soccer mentality.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChuckyChip on October 30, 2012, 06:38:48 AM
NBC Universal will be the new broadcast home for the Premier League starting in 2013-2014 -

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/28/nbc-universal-acquires-exclusive-english-premier-league-rights-in-united-states/related/ (http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/28/nbc-universal-acquires-exclusive-english-premier-league-rights-in-united-states/related/)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 07, 2012, 08:01:23 PM
The Hexagonal Draw is out for the US Men's National Team. Here are the matchdays:

February 6, @ Honduras
March 22, v Costa Rica
March 26, @ Mexico
June 7, @ Jamaica
June 11, v Panama
June 18, v Honduras
Sept 6, @ Costa Rica
Sept 10, v Mexico
Oct 11, v Jamaica
Oct 15, @ Panama

It's a very, very tough start. Costa Rica and Jamaica are really must-win matches. I'd be very happy with 7 points from our first 4 matches (assuming a loss to Mexico), though 6 or even 4 are probably more likely. We pretty much need all the home matches, especially with 4/5 at home after the road-heavy start. September 6 is probably another one we can mark down as a loss -- we've never won at Costa Rica in the Hexagonal.

My biggest worry is if we need to get anything out of that final match. Panama is a very tough place to play for a finish. I hope we have secured one of the top-3 spots by that time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on November 07, 2012, 08:38:06 PM
Too bad we cant get Mexico at home during the winter.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 07, 2012, 08:45:16 PM
I thought the same. Honestly, I'm ready to start making plans now. That game should be in Columbus. Maybe KC, but I doubt it. Will try to get to at least 2 of these, depending on location. Wish traveling to Jamaica in June was realistic, but between the wedding and honeymoon, I just can't afford it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on November 07, 2012, 10:09:09 PM
Guessing Honduras will be in Chicago.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 🏀 on November 07, 2012, 10:15:35 PM
Guessing Honduras will be in Chicago.

I'll be sure to stay off the METRA on that day.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on November 08, 2012, 07:01:04 AM
I'll be sure to stay off the METRA on that day.

(http://dancingczars.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/thats-racist.gif)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on November 08, 2012, 08:45:58 AM
Any chance Jacksonville could get a home match based on the strong crowd showing in the friendly v Scotland?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on November 08, 2012, 09:09:05 AM
Think the short list for US sites:  Washington DC, Salt Lake, Chicago, KC, Columbus, Hartford, J'Ville, Nashville
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 08, 2012, 09:13:07 AM
As far as home dates, I would put money down that Mexico will be in Columbus. Either Costa Rica or Honduras will be in Kansas City, the other most likely in Salt Lake City.

The last two, Jamaica and Panama, will probably go to larger population centers. Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Houston, Chicago, New York, Phoenix, Boston, Washington DC, and Tampa will be in the running. If I had to guess, I'd say Jamaica would go to Los Angeles and Panama to Philly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: robmufan on November 08, 2012, 10:35:16 PM
I went to the last game in Columbus vs Jamaica.  That would be some atmosphere against Mexico!  Didn't they play them there last time in the hex?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 🏀 on November 08, 2012, 10:37:54 PM
(http://dancingczars.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/thats-racist.gif)

It is?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on November 09, 2012, 07:41:08 AM
It is?

Was just joshing, took your comment and jokingly thought that you would specifically stay off the METRA b/c of Hondurans.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 09, 2012, 09:18:12 AM
I went to the last game in Columbus vs Jamaica.  That would be some atmosphere against Mexico!  Didn't they play them there last time in the hex?

We are 3-0 against Mexico in WC qualifiers at Columbus.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 🏀 on November 09, 2012, 09:42:09 AM
Was just joshing, took your comment and jokingly thought that you would specifically stay off the METRA b/c of Hondurans.

Well, maybe that's exactly what I was saying.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on November 09, 2012, 09:56:04 AM
Well, maybe that's exactly what I was saying.

I knew it!!!!!  I always thought your rage was more directed at Panamanians?  Thinking they are all fancy with their canal. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 🏀 on November 09, 2012, 10:23:59 AM
I knew it!!!!!  I always thought your rage was more directed at Panamanians?  Thinking they are all fancy with their canal. 

Don't even get me started on that unnatural carnal knowledgeing canal. If it wasn't for Teddy Roosevelt...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 13, 2012, 02:05:59 PM
This is all very positive news:

http://www.soccerbyives.net/2012/11/chandler-says-hes-committed-to-usmnt.html

http://www.soccerbyives.net/2012/11/a-closer-look-at-the-young-players-on-usmnt.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 06, 2013, 04:53:52 PM
puke. terrible game today. honduras dominated the 2nd half.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on February 06, 2013, 11:10:53 PM
puke. terrible game today. honduras dominated the 2nd half.

Thanks to Panama and Jamaica, it doesn't hurt that much.

The back four has to be better. They were pathetic.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on February 06, 2013, 11:27:37 PM
We look lost without Donovan. The team had seemingly no plan or organization going forward. No one truly playing the right wing, and even at the end there just didn't seem to be much sense of urgency, as though settling for a 1-goal loss was okay. Really not sure what the plan was today, but JK looked out of his depth.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: chren21 on February 07, 2013, 05:44:11 AM
We look lost without Donovan. The team had seemingly no plan or organization going forward. No one truly playing the right wing, and even at the end there just didn't seem to be much sense of urgency, as though settling for a 1-goal loss was okay. Really not sure what the plan was today, but JK looked out of his depth.

Just watched it.  Great goal by demp.  Wow was the defending terrible including Howard on the goal.  Agree I just did not see a sense of urgency.  Need LD
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on February 07, 2013, 08:38:56 AM
Just watched it.  Great goal by demp.  Wow was the defending terrible including Howard on the goal.  Agree I just did not see a sense of urgency.  Need LD

Howard is fine, but he needs center halves who have some sort of cohesion. If it's up to him to organize them, so be it. But they were a mess yesterday. Jones/Edu need to provide better cover as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on February 07, 2013, 09:03:51 AM
Howard is fine, but he needs center halves who have some sort of cohesion. If it's up to him to organize them, so be it. But they were a mess yesterday. Jones/Edu need to provide better cover as well.

I actually think Howard was at fault for the winner. Torn between staying home and coming out leaves no certainty for your defender though considering it was the 81st perhaps a slip-up such as that should never come to be.

Klinsy is fine. He's playing around. And has been since the beginning. He knows it's a virtual lock to qualify. Everything he does is with the idea of seeing what they're capable of in Brazil for those first three games.

I'm also not sure why a player such as Donovan who is not shy in saying he has little desire to play is being pegged as the one to solve multiple issues including breeding a new line of defense and integrating multi-nationals to the Central America hell hole.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on February 07, 2013, 09:24:00 AM
Klinsy is fine. He's playing around. And has been since the beginning. He knows it's a virtual lock to qualify. Everything he does is with the idea of seeing what they're capable of in Brazil for those first three games.


That's a more positive spin than anything I have seen. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on February 07, 2013, 02:55:24 PM
I actually think Howard was at fault for the winner. Torn between staying home and coming out leaves no certainty for your defender though considering it was the 81st perhaps a slip-up such as that should never come to be.

Klinsy is fine. He's playing around. And has been since the beginning. He knows it's a virtual lock to qualify. Everything he does is with the idea of seeing what they're capable of in Brazil for those first three games.

I'm also not sure why a player such as Donovan who is not shy in saying he has little desire to play is being pegged as the one to solve multiple issues including breeding a new line of defense and integrating multi-nationals to the Central America hell hole.

Regarding the winner, I was really disappointed with the center halves, as neither Cameron nor Gonzales put in challenges on their men despite being in position to do so. The defense was questionable all day, but the midfield didn't do much to maintain possession to lessen any of that pressure.

I agree JK is playing around, but I'm not sure he's fine. We aren't even close to being a lock to qualify. Imagine where we'll be in a nightmare scenario of drawing Costa Rica and losing at Mexico in the next two. 1 point from the first 3 matches while staring at a trip to Jamaica where we just lost last year and against a team that took a point out of the Azteca? We probably need 16-17 points to assure a place in Brazil, and if we suddenly need to win 5 of our remaining 6 just to avoid a playoff with CONMEBOL it's very possible we could end up missing out altogether. The Hex isn't nearly as friendly as it was a few years ago, The Central American teams are starting to play some good football and know the strategy to compete with the USA and Mexico.

And while this may just be rumors, I've heard that LD may not be too fond of Klinsmann. The problem with not having him is that without him we have virtually no offensive creativity. Guys like Bradley and Dempsey are solid and skilled, but they aren't very creative. Neither will create something out of nothing the way Donovan can. The only other guy that's been in the mix of late to really display any true creativity is Brek Shea. Yesterday Jermaine Jones was playing on the right wing. Jermaine Jones. He is not a winger, he doesn't have the pace, the dribbling skills, or the guile to play out there. Yesterday's formation started to convince me that Klinsmann is a carpenter that doesn't know how to use his tools. Jones is a hammer, that position is one where you need a screwdriver. Eddie Johnson isn't exactly a winger either, yet he's out there. While he's our top goal threat and had a cracker yesterday, Dempsey would be much better suited out there. Just not impressed with California Klinsy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 07, 2013, 03:05:37 PM
And while this may just be rumors, I've heard that LD may not be too fond of Klinsmann. The problem with not having him is that without him we have virtually no offensive creativity. Guys like Bradley and Dempsey are solid and skilled, but they aren't very creative. Neither will create something out of nothing the way Donovan can. The only other guy that's been in the mix of late to really display any true creativity is Brek Shea. Yesterday Jermaine Jones was playing on the right wing. Jermaine Jones. He is not a winger, he doesn't have the pace, the dribbling skills, or the guile to play out there. Yesterday's formation started to convince me that Klinsmann is a carpenter that doesn't know how to use his tools. Jones is a hammer, that position is one where you need a screwdriver. Eddie Johnson isn't exactly a winger either, yet he's out there. While he's our top goal threat and had a cracker yesterday, Dempsey would be much better suited out there. Just not impressed with California Klinsy.

I'm right there with you on the thinking about creativity. Why, again, does Klins play 3 DMs? Would a 4-1-3-2 with the same back line, Bradley/Jones/Edu at the DM, Gatt/EJ/Shea on left, Dempsey/Diskerud in the middle, Zusi/Gyau/Donovan on right, Altidore/Gomez/Boyd/whoever up top do all that much worse than last night? At least with my suggested lineup, we can attack a bit and maintain possession as those guys can dribble.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: PaintTouches on February 07, 2013, 03:32:26 PM

 We probably need 16-17 points to assure a place in Brazil, and if we suddenly need to win 5 of our remaining 6 just to avoid a playoff with CONMEBOL it's very possible we could end up missing out altogether.


One clarification, this year's playoff isn't with CONMEBOL but with Oceania. Big difference facing a Chile/Paraguay/Uruguay than New Zealand or Fiji. Agree with everything you said though.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on February 07, 2013, 07:01:09 PM
What really surprises me right now is that while I do miss the defense Bob Bradley stressed, it's his offense I miss right now. Bob was no offensive genius, but he knew how to maximize the guys he had on the pitch. Right now we are creating nothing from the wings and this team simply isn't good enough to attack through the middle. If guys like LD and Brek aren't going to be available, then we need to have Zusi in there more, we need to shift Dempsey back to the wing and put someone else up top, we'd even be better off playing someone else at RB and moving Chandler up the pitch. Yesterday we marched out Michael Bradley, Jermaine Jones, Danny Williams, Maurice Edu, and Sacha Kljestan. That's 5 holding midfielders, with two of them (Jones and Sacha) deployed as wingers.

I know JK was brought in to shake things up and to turn us more into a team that can compete internationally and not just dominate CONCACAF, but I'm just not seeing it. We've had some very impressive results. The win at the Azteca, beating Italy on their soil, Klinsmann has generally had the results, but he still doesn't seem to grasp how to navigate qualification. He's never had to qualify a team before. His Germany team was the host nation and this is simply a different animal. We skirted through the last round and really need to be more impressive if we want to even make it to Brazil.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on February 08, 2013, 10:27:39 AM

That's a more positive spin than anything I have seen. 

In terms of Klinsmann or qualification?

Klinsmann realizes the grand vision and clearly so does Gulati since he caved after six years of posturing. Sure Bradley could have sputtered along with the last legs of a previous generation but that likely would have led to a much sharper decline in fortunes than many imagine for 2015 and beyond. Better to let the German take charge, set a foundation, and pass it on for success (see: Germany and Munich).

The US was nine minutes from being in pole position (if a country can be 1/10 of the way through) thanks to the "almighty" El Tri pulling a classic south of the border choke job. It will be a monumental task for multiple countries to find the US in fifth position at the end of the year. Just not going to happen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on February 10, 2013, 04:24:32 PM
In terms of Klinsmann or qualification?

Klinsmann realizes the grand vision and clearly so does Gulati since he caved after six years of posturing. Sure Bradley could have sputtered along with the last legs of a previous generation but that likely would have led to a much sharper decline in fortunes than many imagine for 2015 and beyond. Better to let the German take charge, set a foundation, and pass it on for success (see: Germany and Munich).

The US was nine minutes from being in pole position (if a country can be 1/10 of the way through) thanks to the "almighty" El Tri pulling a classic south of the border choke job. It will be a monumental task for multiple countries to find the US in fifth position at the end of the year. Just not going to happen.

The only people who really believe that Klinsmann was responsible for the "foundation" built at Germany and Munich are Jurgen Klinsmann and his friend Mr. Hat. Jogi Lowe was widely regarded as the true mastermind behind the German machine in 2006 when JK was still in control and the general consensus was that passing control from JK to JL was more a formality than anything else. Klinsmann was the popular face of the German team as they hosted, but I don't believe for a second he was really the one pulling the strings.

As far as Munich, Klinsmann was fired for a reason. With a core of Ribery, Robben, Muller, Lahm he still wasn't getting the results. I get the idea behind hiring Klinsmann, and I really hope it works out, but he just doesn't seem to be relating well with the players (see the conflict with Chandler and Donovan's lack of interest in returning to the NT) and the offense hasn't been nearly as impressive as promised. He has a lower winning percentage than Bradley did and we're scoring barely more than a goal per game (29 in 23 games) while being far too leaky at the back (conceded 22 in 23).

I didn't like this hire when it happened, and my biggest fear is that the USA went away from a guy who was admittedly slow and steady for someone who is all flash and no substance. You say it'd be difficult for us to finish 5th, but I don't think it's at all hard to believe we'd be sitting on 2 points through our first 4 games. If that's the case, we probably have to win 5 of our last 6 to get an avoid a playoff and likely 4 of 6 just to play the Oceania qualifier (thanks, pux). I feel confident we'd beat Panama, Honduras, and Jamaica at home. But on the road at Costa Rica and Panama with Mexico at home? We'd need to win at least one of those, and none are remotely close to a guarantee.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on February 11, 2013, 09:14:11 AM
The only people who really believe that Klinsmann was responsible for the "foundation" built at Germany and Munich are Jurgen Klinsmann and his friend Mr. Hat. Jogi Lowe was widely regarded as the true mastermind behind the German machine in 2006 when JK was still in control and the general consensus was that passing control from JK to JL was more a formality than anything else. Klinsmann was the popular face of the German team as they hosted, but I don't believe for a second he was really the one pulling the strings.

As far as Munich, Klinsmann was fired for a reason. With a core of Ribery, Robben, Muller, Lahm he still wasn't getting the results. I get the idea behind hiring Klinsmann, and I really hope it works out, but he just doesn't seem to be relating well with the players (see the conflict with Chandler and Donovan's lack of interest in returning to the NT) and the offense hasn't been nearly as impressive as promised. He has a lower winning percentage than Bradley did and we're scoring barely more than a goal per game (29 in 23 games) while being far too leaky at the back (conceded 22 in 23).

I didn't like this hire when it happened, and my biggest fear is that the USA went away from a guy who was admittedly slow and steady for someone who is all flash and no substance. You say it'd be difficult for us to finish 5th, but I don't think it's at all hard to believe we'd be sitting on 2 points through our first 4 games. If that's the case, we probably have to win 5 of our last 6 to get an avoid a playoff and likely 4 of 6 just to play the Oceania qualifier (thanks, pux). I feel confident we'd beat Panama, Honduras, and Jamaica at home. But on the road at Costa Rica and Panama with Mexico at home? We'd need to win at least one of those, and none are remotely close to a guarantee.

If you don't recognize that Klinsmann transformed the thinking and playing style of the German foundation you're either ignorant or willfully evasive. Regarding Munich, Klinsmann never managed Robben and Muller wasn't a senior player when Klinsy was at the club so it seems you may not know too much about his less then one season managing Munich.

But, at this point, it's pretty clear you've disliked Klinsmann for as long as you've known who he was/is (probably last few years) so no sense in getting beaten down by it. 

As for qualification, look at Mexico four years ago. Absolute clown show disaster of a start to the hexagonal. What happened then?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: chren21 on March 03, 2013, 06:44:24 PM
How about those Spurs!   Yes I have jumped on their bandwagon cause I love the deuce.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 20, 2013, 10:56:39 AM
Really surprised no one has linked this article. I'm sure it will be gleeful for many to read it. Just the type of momentum you want going into a must win Costa Rica match.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/soccer/story/2013-03-19/jurgen-klinsmann-us-mens-soccer-coach-national-team-usa-american-world-cup-2013 (http://aol.sportingnews.com/soccer/story/2013-03-19/jurgen-klinsmann-us-mens-soccer-coach-national-team-usa-american-world-cup-2013)

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 20, 2013, 11:01:32 AM
Really surprised no one has linked this article. I'm sure it will be gleeful for many to read it. Just the type of momentum you want going into a must win Costa Rica match.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/soccer/story/2013-03-19/jurgen-klinsmann-us-mens-soccer-coach-national-team-usa-american-world-cup-2013 (http://aol.sportingnews.com/soccer/story/2013-03-19/jurgen-klinsmann-us-mens-soccer-coach-national-team-usa-american-world-cup-2013)



Read that yesterday. Not good. However, I think most of the grumbling comes from two groups: the veterans who are having their roles changed/diminished and the players inexperienced with international/top-level coaching (MLS players). I want to know what someone like Dempsey thinks.

People were having the same conversations about Arena after 2006.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on March 20, 2013, 01:19:46 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/sports/soccer/landon-donovan-american-soccers-missing-piece.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/sports/soccer/landon-donovan-american-soccers-missing-piece.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all)

Good story on Donovan's sabbatical

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on March 20, 2013, 01:25:54 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/sports/soccer/landon-donovan-american-soccers-missing-piece.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/sports/soccer/landon-donovan-american-soccers-missing-piece.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all)

Good story on Donovan's sabbatical


I'm surprised this doesn't happen more with soccer players.  Their schedules are ridiculous - especially the ones good enough to play for their national teams.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 21, 2013, 11:44:08 AM
Read that yesterday. Not good. However, I think most of the grumbling comes from two groups: the veterans who are having their roles changed/diminished and the players inexperienced with international/top-level coaching (MLS players). I want to know what someone like Dempsey thinks.

People were having the same conversations about Arena after 2006.

The article never sat right with me and its been condemned by Michael Bradley, whom I consider the leader of this next phase of the program.

I agree it's likely down to an old guard being transitioned out or down to a certain few who have been told they're the next great thing and yet find themselves not catered to in and out of the camps.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 22, 2013, 06:25:26 PM
So, I'm guessing no one is going to stand up here and get all bitchy over Mexico dropping points in Honduras after surrendering a 2-0 lead in the 75th, huh? Anyone? No?

The US hasn't lost in nearly 30 home WC Qualifiers. They win tonight and those petulant "US is doomed" overreactions after one match from last month will be pretty funny reading tomorrow.

Hell, if the other match ends in a draw all of a sudden I'm sure many of you will be right there talking how the US could really be in the driver's seat if they can steal a point from Azteca.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: chren21 on March 22, 2013, 09:48:10 PM
Snow is hilarious...  Wow
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on March 22, 2013, 10:14:26 PM
The snow is ridiculous.  Duece should have 2 goals right now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 23, 2013, 08:51:55 AM
How's that CONCACAF hex looking now, chicken littles?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on March 23, 2013, 08:56:03 AM
On to Azteca...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 25, 2013, 01:58:18 PM
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/55674/snow-blind-the-usmnt-overcomes-the-elements-and-costa-rica

and in response to the sporting news story...

prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/23/kyle-martino-says-u-s-natioanl-team-problem-is-more-martin-vasquez-less-jurgen-klinsmann/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 26, 2013, 08:56:07 AM
On to Azteca...

You mean Pizzteca?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on March 26, 2013, 09:44:49 AM
True, It has many names.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Bocephys on March 26, 2013, 01:52:19 PM
I have a bad feeling we get smoked tonight.  Snuck away with the 1-0 victory in the snow amongst all of the distractions, but it could all come to a head tonight.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 26, 2013, 03:14:12 PM
I don't get the whining over the snow. You play in the conditions of the home team. Does the USA ask for a replay due to the smog/pollution/altitude/piss-filled arena in Mexico?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 26, 2013, 11:33:59 PM
Loved stealing a point from Azteca. SOTG I think goes to Gonzalez, but the entire backline played very, very well. Besler? ridiculous.

Yes, got away with 2 probable PKs. Especially the Edu foul.

I thought US played best in the last 15 minutes of first half - some solid possession and movement. No real goal scoring chances though.

And, finally, people can hate on Klinnsman all they want, but the man gets results. And props to him for putting in subs that were not "park the bus" types.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on March 26, 2013, 11:42:30 PM
Loved stealing a point from Azteca. SOTG I think goes to Gonzalez, but the entire backline played very, very well. Besler? ridiculous.

Yes, got away with 2 probable PKs. Especially the Edu foul.

I thought US played best in the last 15 minutes of first half - some solid possession and movement. No real goal scoring chances though.

For a green CB pairing to put in a performance of that quality, in that atmosphere, is nothing short of remarkable. Credit to Beasley for settling in after a difficult start, then fighting through a couple knocks. Edu's foul was a penalty. Hernandez made a meal of the first one.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Bocephys on March 27, 2013, 12:20:03 AM
For a green CB pairing to put in a performance of that quality, in that atmosphere, is nothing short of remarkable. Credit to Beasley for settling in after a difficult start, then fighting through a couple knocks. Edu's foul was a penalty. Hernandez made a meal of the first one.

Well I'm glad to be wrong on this one, I thought we'd go down hard.  I agree that Edu's foul was the only penalty where we got lucky.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on March 27, 2013, 08:08:43 AM
When the schedule came out, if you would have said that they would get 4 points out of their first 3 matches, most people would have been satisfied.  In June they first travel to Jamaica, and if they can get a point out of that, they'll come home for two straight v. Panama and Honduras.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on March 27, 2013, 08:18:47 AM
The only way they were going to get a point last night was through a scoreless tie.   Completely disorganized on offense and they almost looked like they didn't want possession.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on March 27, 2013, 08:52:51 AM
The only way they were going to get a point last night was through a scoreless tie.   Completely disorganized on offense and they almost looked like they didn't want possession.

Klinsmann's teams are at their best in attack when the fullbacks get forward. Yesterday, with a converted CB and midfielder at that position, they had to sit back. Bradley and Edu also had to sit deeper to cover for the back four. It left Jozy/Dempsey on an island.

They did what they had to do to nick a point. Totally fine with that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 27, 2013, 08:54:54 AM
That German dude has no idea what he's doing. Geez louise, the Federation should fire him as its clear he's in well over his head and driving the program six feet under.

It's almost like that time the German guy (or is he Californian?) was coaching some team in Munich with all those stars (half of whom weren't in his squad) and a brainiac here said it was proof he has no substance. Or does he have substance? Is he learning?

Ah, he still must go. No chance they qualify. Bring back Bob!!!!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on May 20, 2013, 01:23:08 AM
My 2012-13 EPL Predictions:

1. United
2. City
3. Chelsea
4. Tottenham
5. Arsenal
6. Newcastle


18. Southampton
19. Norwich
20. Wigan


Got the top three in order.  My damn heart picked Tottenham ahead of Arsenal.  Newcastle was obvviously a disappointment.

Got one of the three relegated. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Wareagle on May 20, 2013, 03:06:13 AM

Got the top three in order.  My damn heart picked Tottenham ahead of Arsenal.  Newcastle was obvviously a disappointment.

Got one of the three relegated. 

It will be interesting to see where Spurs land next year, given that they may sell Bale.  This may have been their last best chance to establish themselves in the top 4.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on May 30, 2013, 08:46:34 AM
I don't know if our D has ever looked as lost as they did last night.  A lot of standing around.


Belgium looked very solid.  USMNT lucky to only give up 4.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: chren21 on May 30, 2013, 01:15:02 PM
I don't know if our D has ever looked as lost as they did last night.  A lot of standing around.


Belgium looked very solid.  USMNT lucky to only give up 4.


Was brutal to watch. Thanks god the hawks were also on so I could switch between. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 30, 2013, 03:02:49 PM
I don't know if our D has ever looked as lost as they did last night.  A lot of standing around.


Belgium looked very solid.  USMNT lucky to only give up 4.

Here's the realization that both sucks and needs to be understood: no player on the US team last night would be a starter on a full-strength Belgium team. Except maybe Howard.

That's the sad reality of USA soccer right now. Tactics, fitness and "heart" can only carry you so far. We need a step up in individual talent. That's at least 4-5 years away, assuming the next generation pans out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 09, 2013, 12:42:25 PM
Shocked at the lack of talk on the team. Only four months ago there was a lot of panty wetting and hopeless shoulder shrugging determining that the US was trending down in the almighty difficulty of third world soccer powers. Perhaps some were just too caught up in revisionist history after one match to follow what others inevitably knew would happen.

Wrote it four months ago, writing it now, and will write it four months in the future: Klinnsi knows what he's doing with only one thing on his mind and he can continue to play around until he finds what he wants for that one thing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on June 09, 2013, 03:13:48 PM
Was a huge 3 pts friday against the Reggae Boys.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 09, 2013, 03:32:50 PM
World cup qualifying has been very kind to me so far. US, Colombia and Ivory Coast all look to be in pretty good shape.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 12, 2013, 07:04:32 AM
They should fire Jurgen and hire Chapo. He really knows how to get results.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 12, 2013, 09:58:31 AM
They should fire Jurgen and hire Chapo. He really knows how to get results.

I know you're kidding, but this may be the best the USMNT has looked under Jurgen.  Omar Gonzalez is still shaky but both he and Cameron had good games.  With Altidore finally finding some form up front, this team is fun to watch again instead of a brutal grind.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 12, 2013, 10:00:47 AM
I know you're kidding, but this may be the best the USMNT has looked under Jurgen.  Omar Gonzalez is still shaky but both he and Cameron had good games.  With Altidore finally finding some form up front, this team is fun to watch again instead of a brutal grind.
Ya' gotta' consider the opponent.  Forget Belgium already?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on June 12, 2013, 10:38:20 AM
Which opponent? Germany, Jamaica, or Panama three Ws. May not be Brazil/Spain but they are still wins. And  Belgium is a strong side right now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 12, 2013, 11:06:48 AM
Which opponent? Germany, Jamaica, or Panama three Ws. May not be Brazil/Spain but they are still wins. And  Belgium is a strong side right now.
Which opponent?  The Panamanian side, victory over whom has sent palpitations running through this thread.  Belgium toyed with us.  Germany sent its B/C side to play us and who can forget the own goal in that match?  I think I'd temper all that  enthusiasm with a dose of reality but that's me.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on June 12, 2013, 12:05:21 PM
Which opponent?  The Panamanian side, victory over whom has sent palpitations running through this thread.  Belgium toyed with us.  Germany sent its B/C side to play us and who can forget the own goal in that match?  I think I'd temper all that  enthusiasm with a dose of reality but that's me.


I fully understand.  My enthusiasm is always tempered with the USMNT, but it's still great to see Ws (regardless of the opponent) and the US atop the Concacaf.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 12, 2013, 12:54:29 PM

I fully understand.  My enthusiasm is always tempered with the USMNT, but it's still great to see Ws (regardless of the opponent) and the US atop the Concacaf.
It's nie to get a win in qualifying against anybody but beating Panama is no reason to get all het up, IMO.  Not like beating Portugal in the World Cup. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 12, 2013, 03:35:31 PM
It's nie to get a win in qualifying against anybody but beating Panama is no reason to get all het up, IMO.  Not like beating Portugal in the World Cup. 

True. We should expect to beat Panama. I think more impressive than the W was how certain players demonstrated their ability. Jozy is playing perhaps his best football ever for the national team. Bradley continues to be a handful in the middle. Cameron really impressed me next to Bradley. F. Johnson out wide has played very well.

Having said that, I still doubt any of our starter would start for a team like Belgium.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on June 12, 2013, 10:52:32 PM
The USMNT might have the easiest road to the World Cup out of any country, given the weak teams in the Confederation. Only Australia, back when it was in the Oceania Confederation, had an easier road.

That win a week ago against a German "C" team in which they almost blew the game was laughable. Perfect reflection on the US soccer team. News outlets were calling it a "shock upset". Get real. Anything other than a first place finish in your Confederation is damn right shameful. Not really a fan of any of the players, but Dempsey is starting to win me over with his work for the Spurs.

Cheers
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 19, 2013, 12:40:42 PM
Nine points from the last three matches. Sitting atop the hex. Jozy looking like the USMNT finally has a legit striker (when there is service).

Now bring on the haters that want to throw cold water on the progress being shown.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 19, 2013, 01:26:28 PM
Nine points from the last three matches. Sitting atop the hex. Jozy looking like the USMNT finally has a legit striker (when there is service).

Now bring on the haters that want to throw cold water on the progress being shown.

+1. 

Look, they aint gonna be winning the World Cup.  But getting there and making some noise would be fun.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 19, 2013, 02:29:32 PM
Nine points from the last three matches. Sitting atop the hex. Jozy looking like the USMNT finally has a legit striker (when there is service).

Now bring on the haters that want to throw cold water on the progress being shown.

Weirdly, they've been very quiet since mid-February. Can't figure out why.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 24, 2013, 10:31:44 PM
A couple months ago I spent $500 on supporter section tickets for the Gold Cup Final in Chicago. Thankfully, the USA beat Honduras tonight to get there, otherwise that would have been a huge disappointment in regards to money spent.

While I realize it's CONCACAF, Donovan looks to be on his finest form and Klinsmann's style finally seems to be working. 10 straight wins at the international level when the bulk of those are qualifiers and cup matches is impressive no matter who you are. Still too many goals conceded on set pieces, but I'm slowly and cautiously warming to Klinsy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 24, 2013, 10:55:23 PM
A couple months ago I spent $500 on supporter section tickets for the Gold Cup Final in Chicago. Thankfully, the USA beat Honduras tonight to get there, otherwise that would have been a huge disappointment in regards to money spent.

While I realize it's CONCACAF, Donovan looks to be on his finest form and Klinsmann's style finally seems to be working. 10 straight wins at the international level when the bulk of those are qualifiers and cup matches is impressive no matter who you are. Still too many goals conceded on set pieces, but I'm slowly and cautiously warming to Klinsy.

Ironically, Klinsmann may be sitting in the seats next to you....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 24, 2013, 11:09:54 PM
Looks like there will be PLENTY of tickets available now.

LOL Tri.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 25, 2013, 01:10:38 PM
Looks like there will be PLENTY of tickets available now.

LOL Tri.

Be curious to see attendance. In '07 Soldier was packed, but probably 97% Mexico supporters. Maybe 50% capacity for Panama? Definitely a loss regarding filling seats.

Interesting how less than a year ago Mexico was regarded so highly and the US so negatively. Klinsmann's tactics finally seem to have caught on while Mexico's Golden Generation looks a lot more like Pyrite.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on July 25, 2013, 01:32:08 PM
Be curious to see attendance. In '07 Soldier was packed, but probably 97% Mexico supporters. Maybe 50% capacity for Panama? Definitely a loss regarding filling seats.

Interesting how less than a year ago Mexico was regarded so highly and the US so negatively. Klinsmann's tactics finally seem to have caught on while Mexico's Golden Generation looks a lot more like Pyrite.


Has El Tri been using their A side? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Buff on July 25, 2013, 02:09:43 PM
Not at the Gold Cup, for World Cup qualifying and the Confederations Cup they did though.  They are really struggling to score goals in the last few months.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 25, 2013, 02:59:17 PM

Has El Tri been using their A side? 

Their A side hasn't looked any better. Without a Hex win at the Azteca, arguably worse. Right now, Mexico looks like the 4th or 5th best team in CONCACAF. Meanwhile both the A and B teams for the US look studly. Will that translate come next summer, will they integrate seamlessly, or is it maybe just good fortune of late rather than successful tactics? Who knows. All I know is right now I'd definitely rather be supporting the US than Mexico.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 25, 2013, 04:24:27 PM
Their A side hasn't looked any better. Without a Hex win at the Azteca, arguably worse. Right now, Mexico looks like the 4th or 5th best team in CONCACAF. Meanwhile both the A and B teams for the US look studly. Will that translate come next summer, will they integrate seamlessly, or is it maybe just good fortune of late rather than successful tactics? Who knows. All I know is right now I'd definitely rather be supporting the US than Mexico.

Admittedly, it's been against CONCACAF central America teams... but I totally agree that both A and B sides for the US are playing outstanding right now. Klinsmann has taken his time and done a marvelous job implementing his system. When is the last time you can remember a USA squad being up 2-1, 3-1, etc on ANY opponent and going for more, more, more goals. It's beautiful.

Also, and, it may not be Klinsy, but I'd like to think it is... Have Donovan, EJ, Jozy... basically all of the attackers for the US EVER looked better than in the last couple months? Other than McBride in the WC, I can't think of many other times.

I'm really hoping this all translates to 2014..
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 25, 2013, 05:32:20 PM
I can't remember ever having the entire offense in sync like it is now. Vander, Dempsey, Johnson, Jozy, Bedoya, pretty much everyone looks comfortable and productive. Personally, I always thought the hire of Klinsmann was too ambitious. Not that he was too big, but simply that we weren't ready for a coach that wanted to play the aggressive style that the Germans have been playing the past few years. I felt an overseas hire was fine, but that someone like Lippi, who based his tactics on the back line, was a better fit. I'm amazed with what I've seen these past few months.

Again, it's mostly B-side friendlies and CONCACAF opponents, but this streak is impressive against anyone. If they can translate this type of play to the World Cup, this team could really be poised to do some damage. Of course, so much depends on the draw...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on July 25, 2013, 06:27:19 PM

Again, it's mostly B-side friendlies and CONCACAF opponents, but this streak is impressive against anyone. If they can translate this type of play to the World Cup, this team could really be poised to do some damage. Of course, so much depends on the draw...

No it's not. A 10 game winning streak against minnows like Honduras, Belize, and Cuba isn't impressive at all. The USA will never do damage at the World Cup. It's laughable. Of course they'll look good when the only decent team they ever have to play is Mexico.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 25, 2013, 07:26:22 PM
No it's not. A 10 game winning streak against minnows like Honduras, Belize, and Cuba isn't impressive at all. The USA will never do damage at the World Cup. It's laughable. Of course they'll look good when the only decent team they ever have to play is Mexico.


Never??  A little strong don't you think?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 25, 2013, 08:17:22 PM
I wrote it in February. I wrote it in June. I'll write it now. And, I'll write it in September:

Klinsy is fine. He's playing around. And has been since the beginning. He knows it's a virtual lock to qualify. Everything he does is with the idea of seeing what they're capable of in Brazil for those first three games.

I'm still not sure why some were pissing their pants.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: chren21 on July 25, 2013, 08:51:17 PM
Can't wait to be in soldiers on Sunday!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 25, 2013, 11:16:07 PM
No it's not. A 10 game winning streak against minnows like Honduras, Belize, and Cuba isn't impressive at all. The USA will never do damage at the World Cup. It's laughable. Of course they'll look good when the only decent team they ever have to play is Mexico.

34-8. That's the goal differential. They aren't squeaking by, they are crushing teams. That also included a win over Germany. Maybe not their A squad, but Germany's B side is still better than most of the world.

In the past, these were games we won 1-0 or 2-0. Now we're seeing 3.4 gpg on average. And the games we aren't crushing we are still winning. At any competitive level 10 consecutive without a draw is impressive, even against Belize and Guatemala. I still feel the next benchmark game is at Costa Rica, where we have never won and only drawn once (in 1985), but to say that not slipping once in 10 games isn't impressive, well that's just silly.

And making it to the round of 8 and 16 in 2 of the past 3 World Cups is at the very least doing some damage.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on July 27, 2013, 12:53:46 AM
34-8. That's the goal differential. They aren't squeaking by, they are crushing teams. That also included a win over Germany. Maybe not their A squad, but Germany's B side is still better than most of the world.

In the past, these were games we won 1-0 or 2-0. Now we're seeing 3.4 gpg on average. And the games we aren't crushing we are still winning. At any competitive level 10 consecutive without a draw is impressive, even against Belize and Guatemala. I still feel the next benchmark game is at Costa Rica, where we have never won and only drawn once (in 1985), but to say that not slipping once in 10 games isn't impressive, well that's just silly.

And making it to the round of 8 and 16 in 2 of the past 3 World Cups is at the very least doing some damage.

A German "B" side is a bit of an understatement. More of like a "C" team if you ask me. The fact that a benchmark of the US team is a game against Costa Rica is a bit tragic. For that to even be considered a big game is silly. If the US had to qualify in any other confederation, they would get out-classed game in and game out.

I know FIFA rankings are flawed, but here is the "competition" you're playing against.

Canada= 88
Mexico= 22
USA=20
Costa Rica=39
Panama=51
Honduras=55
Haiti=69
Jamaica=77
Cuba=82
Trinidad/Tobago=87
Guatemala=93
El Salvador=94

Apart from Mexico, you're playing against Minnows. Anything over a 40 in FIFA ranking is pretty much a garbage team that won't be found in the world cup. So you're basically playing teams that are far weaker than anything you'll ever see in 2014. There is nothing to be extremely happy about or to be gloating about.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 27, 2013, 12:57:44 AM
A German "B" side is a bit of an understatement. More of like a "C" team if you ask me. The fact that a benchmark of the US team is a game against Costa Rica is a bit tragic. For that to even be considered a big game is silly. If the US had to qualify in any other confederation, they would get out-classed game in and game out.

I know FIFA rankings are flawed, but here is the "competition" you're playing against.

Canada= 88
Mexico= 22
USA=20
Costa Rica=39
Panama=51
Honduras=55
Haiti=69
Jamaica=77
Cuba=82
Trinidad/Tobago=87
Guatemala=93
El Salvador=94

Apart from Mexico, you're playing against Minnows. Anything over a 40 in FIFA ranking is pretty much a garbage team that won't be found in the world cup. So you're basically playing teams that are far weaker than anything you'll ever see in 2014. There is nothing to be extremely happy about or to be gloating about.

"you're"? Where are you from? ...terrorist...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 27, 2013, 06:58:08 AM
Apart from Mexico, you're playing against Minnows. Anything over a 40 in FIFA ranking is pretty much a garbage team that won't be found in the world cup. So you're basically playing teams that are far weaker than anything you'll ever see in 2014. There is nothing to be extremely happy about or to be gloating about.

Wow...okay, first of all, you clearly don't know crap if you don't think anyone over 40 in rankings won't be found in the World Cup. In 2010, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, South Africa, and North Korea (#106) were all found in the World Cup. That's the case every four years, where there are numerous outliers. When you include 32 teams, there are going to be a lot of teams that aren't top-40.

Second, you clearly have the European view of CONCACAF. If you think that Spain, France, England, and Germany would come in with their A sides and destroy Costa Rica, Panama, and Honduras on their soil, you are simply mistaken. Those teams have no idea what it's like playing in a stadium where people are throwing bottles and trash at you, where riot cops come out on the field the same time the players do to protect them, and where the turf isn't pristine grass. In addition, the teams are better than you think. CONCACAF teams are lowly rated because they play each other and FIFA's rankings are all slanted towards teams from Europe and South America. If you think the FIFA World Rankings mean anything, you don't have a clue about the sport.

Right now the Ivory Coast is the only African team in the top-20. There are no Asian teams. And somehow, despite putting up a massive quantity of suck on the pitch, Mexico is still ranked 20th, ahead of the US (among others). You really think those are even close to accurate numbers? Don't be stupid. The FIFA rankings aren't worth the bandwidth they are distributed on.

I'll assume that for you, benchmark games have to be against European or South American competition (or I assume Mexico). Since the start of 2012, we are 5-2-2 in those games. Out-classed game in and game out? Hardly. Included in that is an undefeated record away from home with wins over Italy and Mexico (and while it was a Mexico B side, it was also the USA's B side). If you want to use the game at Bosnia-Herzegovina as your benchmark game, fine, but Costa Rica is going to be a lot tougher to win and carries far more meaning.

W - Venezuela (1-0)
W - @ Italy (1-0)
W - Scotland (5-1)
L - Brazil (1-4)
W - @ Mexico (1-0)
D - @ Russia (2-2)
D - @ Mexico (0-0)
L - Belgium (2-4)
W - Germany (4-3)

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 77ncaachamps on July 27, 2013, 01:13:11 PM

Right now the Ivory Coast is the only African team in the top-20. There are no Asian teams. And somehow, despite putting up a massive quantity of suck on the pitch, Mexico is still ranked 20th, ahead of the US (among others). You really think those are even close to accurate numbers? Don't be stupid. The FIFA rankings aren't worth the bandwidth they are distributed on.


It's called, "The Chicharito Effect".

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 27, 2013, 01:26:00 PM
It's amazing that people keep bringing up the competition in CONCACAF. What do you want, the region to kick out Belize, Cuba, Guatemala, and replace them with Germany, Brazil, and Argentina?

The US can only play who is on their schedule. And they are destroying these teams, like they should be. If you need to see the progress, look at this same competition 2 years ago. That was nearly a full strength US team that was barely getting by, before being bossed by Mexico in the final.

Will it translate to WC success? We'll see. It is encouraging to see competition for places, and the side playing a more fluid style.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: chren21 on July 27, 2013, 04:21:00 PM
Will anyone be at the Weathermark tavern tomorrow pre game and head to the stadium in the march with the American outlaws?   Always fun.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on July 27, 2013, 05:22:11 PM
Wow...okay, first of all, you clearly don't know crap if you don't think anyone over 40 in rankings won't be found in the World Cup. In 2010, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, South Africa, and North Korea (#106) were all found in the World Cup. That's the case every four years, where there are numerous outliers. When you include 32 teams, there are going to be a lot of teams that aren't top-40.

Second, you clearly have the European view of CONCACAF. If you think that Spain, France, England, and Germany would come in with their A sides and destroy Costa Rica, Panama, and Honduras on their soil, you are simply mistaken. Those teams have no idea what it's like playing in a stadium where people are throwing bottles and trash at you, where riot cops come out on the field the same time the players do to protect them, and where the turf isn't pristine grass. In addition, the teams are better than you think. CONCACAF teams are lowly rated because they play each other and FIFA's rankings are all slanted towards teams from Europe and South America. If you think the FIFA World Rankings mean anything, you don't have a clue about the sport.

Right now the Ivory Coast is the only African team in the top-20. There are no Asian teams. And somehow, despite putting up a massive quantity of suck on the pitch, Mexico is still ranked 20th, ahead of the US (among others). You really think those are even close to accurate numbers? Don't be stupid. The FIFA rankings aren't worth the bandwidth they are distributed on.

I'll assume that for you, benchmark games have to be against European or South American competition (or I assume Mexico). Since the start of 2012, we are 5-2-2 in those games. Out-classed game in and game out? Hardly. Included in that is an undefeated record away from home with wins over Italy and Mexico (and while it was a Mexico B side, it was also the USA's B side). If you want to use the game at Bosnia-Herzegovina as your benchmark game, fine, but Costa Rica is going to be a lot tougher to win and carries far more meaning.

W - Venezuela (1-0)
W - @ Italy (1-0)
W - Scotland (5-1)
L - Brazil (1-4)
W - @ Mexico (1-0)
D - @ Russia (2-2)
D - @ Mexico (0-0)
L - Belgium (2-4)
W - Germany (4-3)



I know the FIFA rankings are inaccurate. I've stated that they don't mean much. But you're telling me that a team like Germany, full of players that play in the Bundesliga and La Liga haven't seen fans as rabid as those found in Costa Rica or Mexico? Don't kid yourself. Playing against barca in Camp Nou in front of 90,000 fans is just as demanding, if not the most demanding place to play. Playing against BVB at Dortmund? Good luck. Those that play in Italy or the Premier League, full of racist and lunatic fans desensitized them. The US is made up of mostly MLSers that are lucky to see 10,000 people at a game. I would fully expect European teams, even the mid-level ones like Croatia and Montenegro to waltz through their groups in the Americas if given a chance.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 28, 2013, 07:52:24 AM
Comparing club and international atmospheres isn't the same, but if you are going to try, you are better off mentioning away dates at Galatasaray or even Roma, where the crowd can not only be loud but legitimately threatening to opposing players and fans. I believe it was Dempsey who said in an interview that European players would ask him how the US can struggle in those away dates and he said "they simply don't understand". It's simply a different type of atmosphere. The travel is different, often the altitude, and the fans aren't seeing these games week in and week out (like a club team) but instead spend a year or more waiting for those games. It's just a different world than any European venue offers.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: TinyTimsLittleBrother on July 28, 2013, 03:12:36 PM
Comparing club and international atmospheres isn't the same, but if you are going to try, you are better off mentioning away dates at Galatasaray or even Roma, where the crowd can not only be loud but legitimately threatening to opposing players and fans. I believe it was Dempsey who said in an interview that European players would ask him how the US can struggle in those away dates and he said "they simply don't understand". It's simply a different type of atmosphere. The travel is different, often the altitude, and the fans aren't seeing these games week in and week out (like a club team) but instead spend a year or more waiting for those games. It's just a different world than any European venue offers.


Don't forget that the hotels suck and the pitches are generally awful.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 28, 2013, 04:04:31 PM
Panama just packing it in and hoping for  a counterattack goal.    USA looks frustrated.   No space, no angles. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 28, 2013, 11:12:44 PM
Shea stole Bedoya's goal, but it was earned. Absolutely dominated possession and the run of play. Really felt like the second goal was coming, but just wasn't in the cards. Donovan definitely deserved player of the tournament, and should certainly see his name back in the regular starting lineup come September. Decent performances from the back four throughout, Bedoya, Wondo, and Johnson looked good as well. Disappointing to see Holden succumb to injury again. Has any US player suffered as many setbacks as Stewie has? I get the sense this may have been his last shot.

All in all a good tournament and clearly this team is clicking and starting to play the style Klinsmann was brought in to install. I'm amazed at the strides we've seen in the past year. From some legit concerns about even making the Hex to dominating both qualifying and the Gold Cup with an incredible 11-match win streak to boot. Excited for September's qualifiers and hopefully our first ever win in Costa Rica.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 29, 2013, 06:14:52 AM
Just thought I'd take a stab at a 23-man roster for next summer's World Cup...

Goalkeepers (3): Tim Howard, Brad Guzan, Sean Johnson

Howard and Guzan are guarantees, I went with Johnson over Rimando simply because of age. Johnson is young enough to potentially take over some day, whereas Rimando never will. I could also see Bill Hamid

Defenders (8): Steve Cherundolo, Demarcus Beasley, Geoff Cameron, Omar Gonzalez, Ian Besler, Clarence Goodson, Timmy Chandler, Fabian Johnson

Surprisingly, I'd say that the first 7 names, if healthy, are virtual locks. Of course 'Dolo's health will be key. Donovan's return pushes Johnson to left back. Parkhurst, Castillo, Boca, Evans, Onyewu, Ream, Orozco, and maybe even John Anthony Brooks could all potentially play their way into that last defense spot as well but right now I'd guess are on the outside looking in.

Midfielders (8): Clint Dempsey, Landon Donovan, Michael Bradley, Jermaine Jones, Maurice Edu, Graham Zusi, Alejandro Bedoya, Brek Shea

If healthy, that last spot that Bedoya has could just as easily go to Holden. I could also see that being a central midfielder regardless as this is definitely a bit attack-heavy. Corona and Beckerman just don't seem to be at this level yet, Kljestan and Diskerud haven't impressed enough yet. The first seven names, based on recent picks, all feel pretty solid, this could just as easily go to nine or even ten.

Forwards (4): Jozy Altidore, Herculez Gomez, Eddie Johnson, Chris Wondolowski

Altidore and Gomez seem like locks, and Johnson has been a favorite of Klinsmann for awhile. Wondo had a breakout tournament at the Gold Cup, but most of the damage he did was against weaker opponents. His spot is definitely not firm yet, and could go to someone like Terrence Boyd, Alan Gordon, or possibly even Jack McInerney if he has a big year in Philadelphia. If Wondo didn't make it, I think it'd be more likely we go with 3 forwards and Donovan/Dempsey and just bring another midfielder.

And here's my current starting 11:

Howard

Cherundolo --- Gonzalez --- Cameron --- F. Johnson

Bradley --- Jones

Zusi --- --- --- --- Donovan

Dempsey

Altidore

Edit: Included Fabian Johnson at defense while moving Donovan up to left mid.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on July 29, 2013, 07:33:21 AM
Shea stole Bedoya's goal, but it was earned. Absolutely dominated possession and the run of play. Really felt like the second goal was coming, but just wasn't in the cards. D


Demolition man missed from 3 feet.  That should have been the 2nd goal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: robmufan on July 29, 2013, 03:39:45 PM
Was at soldier field yesterday...what a great time.

Anyone going to Columbus for the USA v Mexico game? I luckily managed supporter section tickets; it is going to be crazy!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: TinyTimsLittleBrother on July 29, 2013, 06:23:00 PM
http://deadspin.com/under-jurgen-klinsmann-u-s-soccer-finally-plays-the-b-953747583
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 30, 2013, 09:27:59 AM
http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/29/stu-holden-injury-stuart-right-knee-torn-acl-usmnt-united-states-usa-bolton-gold-cup-copa-oro/related/


Terrible luck.   Torn ACL
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 30, 2013, 11:11:53 AM
http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/29/stu-holden-injury-stuart-right-knee-torn-acl-usmnt-united-states-usa-bolton-gold-cup-copa-oro/related/


Terrible luck.   Torn ACL

I have to think Sunday was the last time we will ever see Holden suit up for the US. His injury history has become far too frequent for him to overcome. Sad to see with a player that once had so much potential, but I doubt he'll be back to 100% for next year's World Cup, and in 2018 he'll be on the wrong side of 30, and with those injuries his body is likely older than his birth certificate would indicate.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 30, 2013, 11:22:47 AM
I have to think Sunday was the last time we will ever see Holden suit up for the US. His injury history has become far too frequent for him to overcome. Sad to see with a player that once had so much potential, but I doubt he'll be back to 100% for next year's World Cup, and in 2018 he'll be on the wrong side of 30, and with those injuries his body is likely older than his birth certificate would indicate.

Holden will play for the United States again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on August 02, 2013, 05:19:55 PM
Clint Dempsey heading back to MLS....grrr.....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on August 02, 2013, 08:04:52 PM
Yea I don't understand that one at all for Duece.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on August 02, 2013, 08:45:47 PM
Yea I don't understand that one at all for Duece.

4 years, $32m. Pretty easy to understand.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: chren21 on August 03, 2013, 10:24:26 AM
Was at soldier field yesterday...what a great time.

Anyone going to Columbus for the USA v Mexico game? I luckily managed supporter section tickets; it is going to be crazy!

Will be there as well with 2 other MU grads.  Will definitely be at the outlaws pregame party and walk to the game. Hope to see you there, direct message if you would like to meet. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on August 03, 2013, 11:30:03 AM
No, not easy.  Its not like he isn't making solid money playing EPL.  He has frequently spoken about honing his game against top tier competition.  MlS is not top tier competition yet. Maybe its about not enjoying Europe and wanting to be closer to home. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Brewtown Andy on August 03, 2013, 01:01:32 PM
No, not easy.  Its not like he isn't making solid money playing EPL.  He has frequently spoken about honing his game against top tier competition.  MlS is not top tier competition yet. Maybe its about not enjoying Europe and wanting to be closer to home. 

SI's Andy Glockner did a good job pointing out how this is a forward move for Dempsey: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20130802/clint-dempsey-seattle-move/index.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 03, 2013, 01:18:53 PM
I'm getting a bit tired of the euphoric "this is helping the MLS grow!" chorus.  Right now, the US still isn't viewed as a legitimate soccer nation globally.  I think the prejudice against the US in that sense was visible from Dempsey's situation last summer when Tottenham was almost a bail out move.  Non of the big guys were interested, right or wrong.

The best thing for the MLS to grow and improve is to keep developing players from a young age and increasing the quality of the league across the board.  They've been doing that and the league is light years better than 5 years ago, but it still takes time.  Bringing these marquee names like Henry, Keane, and Beckham are great for publicity and to bring casual fans out, but it does nothing for league quality.  If Tony Parker went back to the top French basketball league right now, nobody is gonna say that legitimizes that league even more, especially if he wanted out of San Antonio and nobody in LA, NYC, Miami or Chicago wanted him.

The US needs their top stars playing abroad for both the challenge of playing against top world talent all year, as well as the global soccer community being like "hmm, I guess those Americans can kick it around".  Michael Bradley is a prime example.  Only when that sort of respect comes will international players, with talent, consider the MLS as a good spot to start or further their career, not just prolong it.  I'd argue that Jozy's move to Sunderland, while not Chelsea or United or City, is a better move for the image of American soccer overall.  Another US star in the EPL.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on August 03, 2013, 01:23:01 PM
I'm getting a bit tired of the euphoric "this is helping the MLS grow!" chorus.  Right now, the US still isn't viewed as a legitimate soccer nation globally.  I think the prejudice against the US in that sense was visible from Dempsey's situation last summer when Tottenham was almost a bail out move.  Non of the big guys were interested, right or wrong.


Liverpool was interested and probably would have been a better fit.  And neither them nor Tottenham are slouches.  The other top clubs all didn't need what Dempsey could bring.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 03, 2013, 06:47:30 PM

Liverpool was interested and probably would have been a better fit.  And neither them nor Tottenham are slouches.  The other top clubs all didn't need what Dempsey could bring.

Fit has never been an issue when it comes to talent, if he was really wanted, things would have gotten moved around.  We don't really know what went on behind the scenes, but there were no Champions League teams sniffing around him even after the year he had.  Tottenham is a good club, but still not a CL team.  Either way, maybe Dempsey wanted to be back in the States.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 04, 2013, 12:03:23 AM
Not a fan of the move. If Dempsey's Spurs days were numbered, why not try Italy or Germany? Either league would play to his strengths and I'm sure he could slot in at a Leverkusen, Schalke, Fiorentina, or Lazio and at least battle for a CL spot. I just don't see this as much of a new challenge. I suppose it was inevitable, but thought it was 2-3 years off. Oh well...as long as he holds his form until next summer, that's all we really expect.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on August 04, 2013, 09:57:09 PM

Liverpool was interested and probably would have been a better fit.  And neither them nor Tottenham are slouches.  The other top clubs all didn't need what Dempsey could bring.

Liverpool was interested last summer, but didn't value him more than 4m. Spurs got him for 6m last summer.

Everton was interested this time around, but would have never met what MLS/Seattle offered.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on August 11, 2013, 08:09:24 PM
My EPL prediction:

1. Chelsea
2. Man City
3. Man Utd
4. Arsenal

Relegated: Hull, Crystal Palace, Stoke
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on August 12, 2013, 04:17:56 PM
My EPL prediction:

1. Chelsea
2. Man City
3. Man Utd
4. Arsenal

Relegated: Hull, Crystal Palace, Stoke

Have the same top 4, but I think LFC will challenge Arsenal for that final spot.

Hull, Fulham, Norwich get relegated.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on August 12, 2013, 10:44:20 PM
My Europe Wide Predictions.

EPL
1. Man City- Active in the transfer market, lost players but gained some as well (most notable loss that comes to mind is Toure and Tevez, although signing Stevan Jovetic helps with the attacking; one of my favorite players during his time with Fiorentina.

2. Tottenham Hotspur- Upset pick. Only if Bale stays. While Clint went to Seattle, I love the signing of Soldado to ease the pressure off of Bale. His play will help make this team a lot better and I believe they will finally crack into the Champions League.

3. Manchester City- Only because Fergie is gone. But they will still be solid.

4. Arsenal- Only because of Wojciech Szczesny. Gotta support my countryman. And only because I absolutely despise Chelsea.

Bundesliga
1. Borussia Dortmund- My favorite team in Europe, partly because three of the top polish players are on that team (Lewandowski, Blaszczykowski, and Piszczek). I love their signings of Aubameyang, Sokratis, and Henrikh Mkhitaryan. And besdies, I think everyone would like to see Bayern dethroned after capturing the treble.

2. Bayern Munich- The best team in Europe got better by getting Mario Gotze from Dortmund. That kid is a wizard. I except this season to be a lot closer than last and I don't think Bayern will breeze through the Bundesliga as it did. Tight race throughout the whole season.

3. Bayer Leverkusen.

4. Schalke 04- They boosted their offense by signing some young midfielders with a lot of talent but also a lot to prove. Getting Santana from Dortmund was also a good signing to help with the defense. Santana is a good defender, but was buried under the depth chart at Dortmund. But this last spot is wide open.

La Liga

I really don't care much for Spanish football truthfully, so I'm going with what I've been reading.

1. Barcelona- One word: Neymar.

2. Real Madrid- It'll be a two horse race, as usual, but Barcelona have simply added more than Real.

3. Valencia- Upset pick. Finished 5th last year. I think Atletico Madrid's loss of their biggest offensive weapon is to their benefit.

4. Atletico Madrid- Even though they lost Falcao, the addition of David Villa for dirt cheap will take (some) of that sting away.

Serie A

1. Juventus- The Old Lady is timeless. This is very much Juve's league to lose.

2. Napoli- Although they lost the best scorer in the league last year (Cavani to PSG), the three signings from Real Madrid (Higuain, Jose Callejon, and Raul Albiol) will make an impact, with Higuain obviously having the biggest. I don't think it's enough to replace Cavani, but enough for second place.

3. Fiorentina- The addition of Mario Gomez is huge, but so is the loss of Jovetic. This was Serie A's most exciting team to watch last season and I'm expecting much of the same. They'll edge out Milan this time around.


I know these are flawed. I didn't play it safe. I, for one, like throwing different teams in the mix and picking lots of upsets. It would be nice to see some other teams win. I can't wait for the rest of the leagues to kick off. The Bundesliga has already provided so many great moments in the first week.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 13, 2013, 10:50:10 AM
1) Manchester City -- I think the addition of Pelligrini was an excellent one. City is a more smartly-constructed team than the Madrid team he managed to 96 points.
2) Chelsea -- Mourinho's return will pay off, but not immediately. Chelsea is a team in transition and Jose needs to get rid of many of the guys that made him such a success last time around. Still a year away.
3) Manchester United -- I think they still have the goods to make it a 3-team title race, but this is a lot of pressure for Moyes. If Rooney leaves, they fall back a couple spots.
4) Arsenal -- Assuming they land Gustavo. They are just consistently good, something I can't expect from the Spuds or any Brendan Rodgers-coached team.

Relegated -- Hull City Tigers, Crystal Palace, West Brom (okay...maybe not WBA, but they're supposed to be the yo-yo dammit!)

---

Also, USA commentary...friendly with Bosnia-Herzegovina tomorrow, not even sure I'll be able to watch it, unfortunately. Looks like a decent chance for debuts from John Anthony Brooks, Aron Johansson, and maybe even Bobby Wood. I am hopeful Brooks and Johansson can crack the 2014 World Cup roster.

Really looking forward to next month, though. This friendly is inconsequential compared to playing Mexico and at Costa Rica, which has been as much (if not more) a house of horrors for us than the Azteca. Win those two and we're all but assured qualification, and it will likely also be a chance to see Donovan and Dempsey on the pitch together again. This team is starting to take shape, and I'm actually feeling very optimistic about things under California Klinsy...though I am still hoping for a World Cup draw of Argentina, Portugal, and Ivory Coast, because Klinsmann seems to excel in games we don't expect to win.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 14, 2013, 03:43:08 PM
WHAT A COMEBACK!

I officially take back all the smack I talked about Altidore when he wasn't living up to expectations.  Dude is officially in beast mode.  Lets hope he continues it in the EPL.

12 IN A ROW
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 14, 2013, 04:35:37 PM
Wow. That was impressive. I don't care what any critics might say, beating Bosnia in Sarajevo is impressive, especially in comeback fashion. Granted, they went behind early, and were punished with an offside goal that was allowed, but the US held their own in the first half. Diskerud looked excellent and really should have drawn a penalty had he not been so tenacious in keeping his feet. Then, the second half...

Jozy is on amazing form right now. Created the first goal and scored the other three. It's been a long time, but it finally feels like we have that forward we have been waiting so long for. He was aggressive, incisive, powerful, and perfectly on target. The free kick was flawlessly placed. He finally has his timing right and is doing well to avoid the offside traps. Great performance.

Brooks looked solid in his debut, as did Johansson. I have a feeling both will earn spots to Brazil. Wood got a debut as well, though it was brief and if not for seeing him on the pitch during a break in the action I wouldn't have known he was in the game. Dzeko had his chances and scored two, but he's probably the best power forward in the world right now. I can forgive Brooks as he kept up with him much of the day. Johansson really looked solid in creating chances. Granted, all his shots were right at the keeper, but it was a solid debut.

I still feel the Costa Rica game is a more important test, but coming back from 2-0 against one of the best teams in Europe (and the world) on their soil is impressive. That was Bosnia's top team. Jurgen's halftime adjustments were excellent and I have to admit he's fully won me over.

If we can manage to beat Costa Rica on the road, a fixture we've never won, and beat Mexico at home, the United States will be in the position to establish the longest winning streak in international history with our final two qualifiers. The record of 15 is held by Spain and was ended by the USA in the 2009 Confederations Cup. Now the USA could take that record themselves.

Going that long without a slip would be an amazing feat. While it's easy to discount the streak based on some of the competition, consider that the second longest current streak was ended today when Brazil lost to Switzerland, ending a 6-game run. Being that consistent, even against second tier teams, isn't easy.

Great win today. Great statement game for a nation on a tremendous run of form. If we can stay healthy for the next 10 months, Brazil could be incredibly exciting for fans of Team USA.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: muwarrior87 on August 14, 2013, 08:58:10 PM
Have the same top 4, but I think LFC will challenge Arsenal for that final spot.

Hull, Fulham, Norwich get relegated.

homer...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on August 14, 2013, 11:38:32 PM
That fourth goal was a lovely move. Michael Bradley made a great run, and still weighted the pass perfectly.

The difference in Jozy's finishing ability is incredible. Hard to believe that is the same player that used to miss sitters on a semi-regular basis.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 15, 2013, 07:03:44 AM
That fourth goal was a lovely move. Michael Bradley made a great run, and still weighted the pass perfectly.

The difference in Jozy's finishing ability is incredible. Hard to believe that is the same player that used to miss sitters on a semi-regular basis.

Amazing what a couple years in Holland can do for a guy. It's a great nation for strikers to cut their teeth. Just hope he can keep it up at Sunderland.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 15, 2013, 09:42:43 AM
Amazing what a couple years in Holland can do for a guy. It's a great nation for strikers to cut their teeth. Just hope he can keep it up at Sunderland.

Lets hope it does the same for Johansson
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on August 16, 2013, 02:14:22 PM
The free kick was flawlessly placed.

(http://i.imgur.com/AXOuCdr.gif)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 18, 2013, 05:59:37 PM
Lets hope it does the same for Johansson

young guy already looked pretty solid in his time on the field. Took several defenders on one-on-one. only other US players that even try that, let alone succeed, are Brek, Landon and Clint.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 18, 2013, 10:44:03 PM
young guy already looked pretty solid in his time on the field. Took several defenders on one-on-one. only other US players that even try that, let alone succeed, are Brek, Landon and Clint.

Liked what I saw from him. Legitimately made some guys miss, against a squad like B-H that's no small feat. Shots were pretty much straight at the keeper, but hopefully his shot selection and placement will improve with time. At least they were on target.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on August 19, 2013, 08:10:41 AM
Lets hope it does the same for Johansson


Hasn't he already gotten off to a great start with AZ?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 19, 2013, 10:31:58 AM

Hasn't he already gotten off to a great start with AZ?

The only people concerned with AJ and his evolution are "fans" who didn't know his name three weeks ago. He's fine.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on August 22, 2013, 01:29:08 PM
My EPL prediction:

1. Chelsea
2. Man City
3. Man Utd
4. Arsenal

Relegated: Hull, Crystal Palace, Stoke


Can I get a chance to modify this?  I didn't think Arsenal would do nothing in the transfer market...and Tottenham selling Bale at his top valuation might end up being better for them in the long run.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 24, 2013, 02:42:44 PM

Can I get a chance to modify this?  I didn't think Arsenal would do nothing in the transfer market...and Tottenham selling Bale at his top valuation might end up being better for them in the long run.

This one will be interesting...getting pipped to Willian by Chelsea certainly didn't help matters. Looked like they would bring in plenty for Bale, and while they still may, losing their top target to a cross-city rival isn't going to help matters. Not sure where Arsenal will end up, but one thing seems certain...it's about time for Arsene to hang them up. Not sure if it's a case of ownership not giving him money and telling him to cover (so he's lying to media) or if he really rates his current players as highly as he says (simply not as good as in years past) but that's a side that really needs an injection of fresh blood. Somewhat ironic, considering how much a focus they've had on youth over the years.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on August 24, 2013, 05:30:35 PM
I imagine we can all agree,  NBC 's coverage is the tits.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Manifest Destiny on August 24, 2013, 05:40:45 PM
This one will be interesting...getting pipped to Willian by Chelsea certainly didn't help matters. Looked like they would bring in plenty for Bale, and while they still may, losing their top target to a cross-city rival isn't going to help matters. Not sure where Arsenal will end up, but one thing seems certain...it's about time for Arsene to hang them up. Not sure if it's a case of ownership not giving him money and telling him to cover (so he's lying to media) or if he really rates his current players as highly as he says (simply not as good as in years past) but that's a side that really needs an injection of fresh blood. Somewhat ironic, considering how much a focus they've had on youth over the years.

Tottenham I think would rather lose someone to a club that is going to finish above them than to one that could challenge them for fourth.  (Liverpool)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on August 24, 2013, 05:41:29 PM
I imagine we can all agree,  NBC 's coverage is the tits.

Yes!  Really a first class production.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 24, 2013, 06:53:49 PM
Tottenham I think would rather lose someone to a club that is going to finish above them than to one that could challenge them for fourth.  (Liverpool)

Without a doubt, but they screwed up with Willian. Announced it as a virtual done deal so Chelsea knew he was fit and knew how much to offer. Guys like that aren't easy to find. He could have been the type of player to assure them top-four, not sure anyone else on the market they can afford will provide them that kind of quality production.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 26, 2013, 11:08:24 AM
Without a doubt, but they screwed up with Willian. Announced it as a virtual done deal so Chelsea knew he was fit and knew how much to offer. Guys like that aren't easy to find. He could have been the type of player to assure them top-four, not sure anyone else on the market they can afford will provide them that kind of quality production.

Willian wasn't going to assure spuds a Champions League finish if they couldn't achieve that with Jesus-reincarnated Curious George lookalike Bale. 

spuds fans end all and be all is qualifying for Champions League and that's all they aim at. Meanwhile, for Arsenal, they do that crap in their sleep and its an utter failure in the eyes of everyone. Strange world.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 27, 2013, 10:42:28 PM
Willian wasn't going to assure spuds a Champions League finish if they couldn't achieve that with Jesus-reincarnated Curious George lookalike Bale. 

spuds fans end all and be all is qualifying for Champions League and that's all they aim at. Meanwhile, for Arsenal, they do that crap in their sleep and its an utter failure in the eyes of everyone. Strange world.


Strange world? Not in the least. Not even remotely strange. In this sport more than any other teams are judged based on their own expectations. For some teams, finishing 17th is a wildly successful year. For others, it's a top half finish. Meanwhile, for Manchester United, a finish outside the top-3 would be considered a disaster, even if they finished 4th and assured a CL spot. That holds across other countries as well. This isn't the NFL where everyone has title dreams on day one (thanks, Rams) and half the teams have a legit shot.

And it wasn't Willian alone, Spurs had what, 4-5 guys rumored to be coming in? But only one had any hope of coming close to replicating Bale's impact, and that was Willian. All I'm saying is they really screwed the pooch on that and if the difference of 4th and 5th comes down to a handful of points, Willian may have been the unrealized difference.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 28, 2013, 01:07:52 PM
Strange world? Not in the least. Not even remotely strange. In this sport more than any other teams are judged based on their own expectations. For some teams, finishing 17th is a wildly successful year. For others, it's a top half finish. Meanwhile, for Manchester United, a finish outside the top-3 would be considered a disaster, even if they finished 4th and assured a CL spot. That holds across other countries as well. This isn't the NFL where everyone has title dreams on day one (thanks, Rams) and half the teams have a legit shot.

Exactly.  And Spurs has a wage cap, so even if they develop great players, they can't pay them like other clubs and they will depart. (see Luka Modric)  Thus they have to play a moneyball game of sorts (even though Wenger's approach at Arsenal coincidentally is more moneyball-esque).  Spurs have a good core, a great manager, but they can't just go out and sign mega players with the same efficiency and success as one of the big spenders in Arsenal.

Speaking of Arsenal, those expectations are a result of the cult of Wenger.  He's been good for so long, that people just assume they should be in a certain position.  If Arsenal had sacked Wenger, and had a new manager this year with this roster and lack of offseason moves, the mindset would be very similar to Spurs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 29, 2013, 01:57:06 PM
Full Champions League draw:

A: Manchester United, Shaktar Donetsk, Bayer Leverkusen, Real Sociedad
B: Real Madrid, Juventus, Galatasaray, FC Kopenhagen
C: Benfica, Paris St Germain, Olympiakos, Anderlecht
D: Bayern Munich, CSKA Moscow, Manchester City, Viktoria Plzen
E: Chelsea, Schalke 04, FC Basel, Steaua Bucharest
F: Arsenal, Marseille, Borussia Dortmund, Napoli
G: FC Porto, Atletico Madrid, Zenit St Petersburg, Austria Vienna
H: Barcelona, AC Milan, Ajax Amsterdam, Celtic

Group F jumps out as the Group of Death, but H is also tough. I like United and Leverkusen in Group A (Shaktar lost too much). In B, Real and Juve look like near locks in a lopsided group. C is one of the weakest groups, PSG should be a strong bet and I think Anderlecht can escape it as well. Munich will certainly come out of D, the question will be if City can edge CSKA to join them. I think so this year. E looks like Chelsea and Schalke, though Basel could make things interesting. F will be awesome to watch. I like Dortmund and Napoli to advance, further pressuring Wenger. Group G I like Atletico and Zenit. Finally, leaning towards Barca and Milan in H, though it will be a dogfight for the second spot, could be all three in it if Celtic can do well at home.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on August 29, 2013, 02:02:50 PM
Full Champions League draw:

A: Manchester United, Shaktar Donetsk, Bayer Leverkusen, Real Sociedad
B: Real Madrid, Juventus, Galatasaray, FC Kopenhagen
C: Benfica, Paris St Germain, Olympiakos, Anderlecht
D: Bayern Munich, CSKA Moscow, Manchester City, Viktoria Plzen
E: Chelsea, Schalke 04, FC Basel, Steaua Bucharest
F: Arsenal, Marseille, Borussia Dortmund, Napoli
G: FC Porto, Atletico Madrid, Zenit St Petersburg, Austria Vienna
H: Barcelona, AC Milan, Ajax Amsterdam, Celtic

Group F jumps out as the Group of Death, but H is also tough. I like United and Leverkusen in Group A (Shaktar lost too much). In B, Real and Juve look like near locks in a lopsided group. C is one of the weakest groups, PSG should be a strong bet and I think Anderlecht can escape it as well. Munich will certainly come out of D, the question will be if City can edge CSKA to join them. I think so this year. E looks like Chelsea and Schalke, though Basel could make things interesting. F will be awesome to watch. I like Dortmund and Napoli to advance, further pressuring Wenger. Group G I like Atletico and Zenit. Finally, leaning towards Barca and Milan in H, though it will be a dogfight for the second spot, could be all three in it if Celtic can do well at home.


I think the way UEFA determines the seedings need some thought.  Here we have Porto and Benfica in Pot 1.  And last year's runner up and winner of two of the last three Bundesligas (Dortmund) in Pot 3?

I think Man United has a good draw, but they can't sleep against any of those teams.  Sociedad is much better than the average Pot 4 team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 29, 2013, 02:20:25 PM

I think the way UEFA determines the seedings need some thought.  Here we have Porto and Benfica in Pot 1.  And last year's runner up and winner of two of the last three Bundesligas (Dortmund) in Pot 3?

2 Portuguese teams and 0 Italians in Pot 1 just seems odd. Just one more silly UEFA decision. And Platini wants Blatter's job? That'll end well...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 29, 2013, 09:11:09 PM
Strange world? Not in the least. Not even remotely strange. In this sport more than any other teams are judged based on their own expectations. For some teams, finishing 17th is a wildly successful year. For others, it's a top half finish. Meanwhile, for Manchester United, a finish outside the top-3 would be considered a disaster, even if they finished 4th and assured a CL spot. That holds across other countries as well. This isn't the NFL where everyone has title dreams on day one (thanks, Rams) and half the teams have a legit shot.

And it wasn't Willian alone, Spurs had what, 4-5 guys rumored to be coming in? But only one had any hope of coming close to replicating Bale's impact, and that was Willian. All I'm saying is they really screwed the pooch on that and if the difference of 4th and 5th comes down to a handful of points, Willian may have been the unrealized difference.

Wait, expectations are relative to past accomplishments? crap. Who'd a thunk? Different worlds being played in.

Not sure your love for Willian. Fine player for Shaktar but no world beater. Plays a different game. Lamela was always their first choice replacement for Bale. Plays the same possession but more from the middle as a start. Considering their outlay, it will be utter failure if they don't qualify. And not having a player they never had won't be the reason.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 29, 2013, 09:39:58 PM
Exactly.  And Spurs has a wage cap, so even if they develop great players, they can't pay them like other clubs and they will depart. (see Luka Modric)  Thus they have to play a moneyball game of sorts (even though Wenger's approach at Arsenal coincidentally is more moneyball-esque).  Spurs have a good core, a great manager, but they can't just go out and sign mega players with the same efficiency and success as one of the big spenders in Arsenal.

Speaking of Arsenal, those expectations are a result of the cult of Wenger.  He's been good for so long, that people just assume they should be in a certain position.  If Arsenal had sacked Wenger, and had a new manager this year with this roster and lack of offseason moves, the mindset would be very similar to Spurs.

Uh, spuds will be biggest spender of the window. Already put down nearly 150m US. That's a strange sort of moneyball.

And not sure you're familiar with Arsenal. Hard to be called a "big spender" when your club record fee of £17m is eclipsed three times in this window alone by spuds (not to mention any of the other top six clubs). And I laugh at you describing Arsenal with "efficiency" and "success" regarding signings (see: Juan Mata and Gonzalo Higuain).

Who was the last "mega player" signing for Arsenal?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 30, 2013, 07:07:44 AM
Uh, spuds will be biggest spender of the window. Already put down nearly 150m US. That's a strange sort of moneyball.

And not sure you're familiar with Arsenal. Hard to be called a "big spender" when your club record fee of £17m is eclipsed three times in this window alone by spuds (not to mention any of the other top six clubs). And I laugh at you describing Arsenal with "efficiency" and "success" regarding signings (see: Juan Mata and Gonzalo Higuain).

Who was the last "mega player" signing for Arsenal?


+1  Arsenal has been disappointing me for years now.  They have the money, but they hoard it.  It is super annoying.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Wareagle on August 30, 2013, 08:55:35 AM
Who was the last "mega player" signing for Arsenal?

I believe the Cazorla signing set the team's transfer record.  That said, Arshavin's signing was for a similar amount (bangs head against wall).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on August 30, 2013, 02:21:48 PM
No Parkhurst on the USMNT qualifying team?  Bummer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 31, 2013, 11:24:52 AM
Uh, spuds will be biggest spender of the window. Already put down nearly 150m US. That's a strange sort of moneyball.

And not sure you're familiar with Arsenal. Hard to be called a "big spender" when your club record fee of £17m is eclipsed three times in this window alone by spuds (not to mention any of the other top six clubs). And I laugh at you describing Arsenal with "efficiency" and "success" regarding signings (see: Juan Mata and Gonzalo Higuain).

Who was the last "mega player" signing for Arsenal?


I phrased it poorly, but guys like Henry, Nasri, van Brockhorst, and Reyes were pricey at the time.  They admittedly have been different and not big spending as of late. I guess I was speaking to past Arsenal activity and not the last few years.

And Spurs big spending is abnormal and clearly a result of selling Bale for such an exorbitant fee.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on August 31, 2013, 05:21:06 PM
Full Champions League draw:

A: Manchester United, Shaktar Donetsk, Bayer Leverkusen, Real Sociedad
B: Real Madrid, Juventus, Galatasaray, FC Kopenhagen
C: Benfica, Paris St Germain, Olympiakos, Anderlecht
D: Bayern Munich, CSKA Moscow, Manchester City, Viktoria Plzen
E: Chelsea, Schalke 04, FC Basel, Steaua Bucharest
F: Arsenal, Marseille, Borussia Dortmund, Napoli
G: FC Porto, Atletico Madrid, Zenit St Petersburg, Austria Vienna
H: Barcelona, AC Milan, Ajax Amsterdam, Celtic

Group F jumps out as the Group of Death, but H is also tough. I like United and Leverkusen in Group A (Shaktar lost too much). In B, Real and Juve look like near locks in a lopsided group. C is one of the weakest groups, PSG should be a strong bet and I think Anderlecht can escape it as well. Munich will certainly come out of D, the question will be if City can edge CSKA to join them. I think so this year. E looks like Chelsea and Schalke, though Basel could make things interesting. F will be awesome to watch. I like Dortmund and Napoli to advance, further pressuring Wenger. Group G I like Atletico and Zenit. Finally, leaning towards Barca and Milan in H, though it will be a dogfight for the second spot, could be all three in it if Celtic can do well at home.

None of these groups strike me as a true "Group of Death".
Last year, there was a true group of death (BVB, Man City, Real Madrid, and Ajax). If I was to choose one this year, it would be Group B or H. I would lean towards group B. You have three teams that made in to at least the quarters last year (Galatarasay and Juventus both made it to the quarters and Real to the semis).

With that being said, I think any futbol fan would love these draws. None of these groups are going to be snooze-fests. Quality games and opponents in each round. Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 01, 2013, 11:03:10 AM
For all the money spent at White Hart Lane, Arsenal sure looked better in the first 45. Spurs just couldn't create enough chances inside. Both keepers came up with some saves, but so far, advantage Wenger.

EDIT: How is Rosicky only 32?!? Seems like he's been at Arsenal forever. Figured he must be pushing 40, googled him and saw he's much you get than I expected.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 01, 2013, 05:27:20 PM
I phrased it poorly, but guys like Henry, Nasri, van Brockhorst, and Reyes were pricey at the time.  They admittedly have been different and not big spending as of late. I guess I was speaking to past Arsenal activity and not the last few years.

And Spurs big spending is abnormal and clearly a result of selling Bale for such an exorbitant fee.

I get that. It's a little bit of myth that Arsene doesn't spend. Of course, other then Nasri, those buys are close to ten years or more in the past and recent history shows a more cautious approach. I mean, in today's market, spending only £17 is a bit of bargain shopping with the inflated prices so when Wenger does buy its never seen as being big spending.

Regarding that, if they finish off this Ozil deal it knocks back both the criticisms of holding tight wallet and not being in play for the top talent as Ozil truly would be a "mega player" signing Arsenal hasn't seen nearly at all this century. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on September 03, 2013, 06:38:54 AM
No Parkhurst on the USMNT qualifying team?  Bummer.
Parkhurst added to US team!  Good on ya' Mike!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 06, 2013, 06:29:38 PM
For me, tonight is the biggest game of the Hexagonal. We have NEVER won at Costa Rica. The winner will be atop the group. Mammoth game, maybe even bigger than the Mexico game on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on September 06, 2013, 09:18:31 PM
LOLZ. Good start by the USMNT.  :D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 06, 2013, 10:52:46 PM
LOLZ. Good start by the USMNT.  :D

Costa Rica is the toughest place to play in CONCACAF. And I don't get jackass Americans that take joy when we play 15 bad minutes after 1080 minutes of win after win after win.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: melissasmooth on September 06, 2013, 11:00:18 PM
mexico lost!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 06, 2013, 11:01:42 PM
Bradley and Altidore were sorely missed. Jones was to blame for first 2 goals. US looked terrible in the first half in general. 3rd CR goal I actually put on Howard for not coming out sooner, before the ball got to the box.

Also, Altidore is an IDIOT. A 2nd yellow in stoppage time?! Outside the run of play?!

Mexico lost. Now Columbus becomes a HUGE game.

I can't believe CR might win CONCACAF qualifying...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on September 06, 2013, 11:10:17 PM
Tim Howard was putrid as well. He was all over the shop on the second goal, and could have easily cleaned up that long ball for the third.

They were all poor. Beasley was terrible. Jones and Cameron did the back four no favors. Just weak all the way around.

Mexico is a mess, still think they can get the three points on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on September 07, 2013, 01:50:19 AM
Costa Rica is the toughest place to play in CONCACAF. And I don't get jackass Americans that take joy when we play 15 bad minutes after 1080 minutes of win after win after win.

Your argument lost all validity with the usage of that word. I know the US can't magically change confederations, but CONCACAF is laughable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Sunbelt15 on September 07, 2013, 07:52:12 AM
US will clinch against Mexico, especially after they've fired their manager.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 07, 2013, 08:41:17 AM
Your argument lost all validity with the usage of that word. I know the US can't magically change confederations, but CONCACAF is laughable.

At least you didn't dispute the jackass part.

I have resisted saying so for awhile, but I think it's time for Howard to be replaced. He was clearly at fault on the third goal, but could have done better on the second as well. It was like his feet were anchored to his line. He should have come out to punch or claim the cross. Granted, it was horrific man-marking that had three Ticos running free on the end of the cross, but Howard could have got to that.

Meanwhile, Guzan is establishing himself at Villa. He was one of their best players last year and seems to have the motivation and ability to get to balls that Howard used to have. Despite what JK says, Howard is no longer world class. He flirted with it for a short time, but that time is definitely past now. For some reason, Klinsy just won't make a change in goal. Maybe a loss will be what it takes to allow some competition. Beyond that, I think the only thing that could dislodge Timmy before Brazil is an injury.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on September 07, 2013, 10:00:58 AM
Granted, it was horrific man-marking that had three Ticos running free on the end of the cross, but Howard could have got to that.

This game also exposed why playing Beasley at left back is a terrible idea. Yes, he was fine in the Gold Cup. But the first goal should have been cleared off the line, and he was too short to do it. He had zero chance on the header for the second goal.

He's lost a step of pace, and is too small to defend effectively. If they go into Brazil with him at LB, it will be a short stay.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 07, 2013, 11:03:10 AM
This game also exposed why playing Beasley at left back is a terrible idea. Yes, he was fine in the Gold Cup. But the first goal should have been cleared off the line, and he was too short to do it. He had zero chance on the header for the second goal.

He's lost a step of pace, and is too small to defend effectively. If they go into Brazil with him at LB, it will be a short stay.

The problem is who else do you put at LB? We really haven't had a reliable option there since Agoos retired and that was a decade ago. Fabian Johnson ranges forward too much to be counted on at the back, Lichaj hasn't proven he can play at this level, I suppose you could try Cameron or Besler out there but I'm not sure that's an optimum position for either of them.

I hate to say it, but Beasley is probably still our best option. Not a big fan, but he's been more reliable than Bornstein, Castillo, Pearce, or any of our other options have been. Simply a position of weakness for us. I think just as important is to have a left mid committed to helping out at the back rather than ranging forward.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 09, 2013, 09:35:00 AM
Your argument lost all validity with the usage of that word. I know the US can't magically change confederations, but CONCACAF is laughable.

Almost as laughable as you thinking that venue doesn't matter.  Americans are used to playing on well kept pitches in large stadiums, then they go on the road in CONCACAF and play on crap fields in bandboxes where the crowd is literally on top of them, pelting them with garbage and the officials aren't exactly reliable.  But go ahead and mock them cause they don't play every qualifier against powerhouses like San Marino, Georgia, and the Faroe Islands like the European teams.  Costa Rica is a top 40 squad regardless of venue, they didn't lose to Antigua or Belize.  Their captain plays for Fulham and most of the team is European based.

Wait why am I wasting my breath, its not gonna influence your classic "US Soccer is irrelevant cause they don't play in Europe or South America".  Carry on hating
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 09, 2013, 10:11:44 AM
But go ahead and mock them cause they don't play every qualifier against powerhouses like San Marino, Georgia, and the Faroe Islands like the European teams.  Costa Rica is a top 40 squad regardless of venue, they didn't lose to Antigua or Belize.

This actually got me to thinking...

UEFA Qualifying Groups:

Group A: Croatia 8, Belgium 10, Serbia 41, Wales 46, Scotland 50, Macedonia 89
Average Rank: 40.7

Group B: Italy 6, Czech Republic 26, Denmark 27, Bulgaria 53, Armenia 66, Malta 134
Average Rank: 52

Group C: Germany 2, Sweden 30, Ireland 44, Austria 55, Kazakhstan 149, Faroe Islands 175
Average Rank: 75.8

Group D: Netherlands 5, Hungary 31, Romania 33, Turkey 58, Estonia 85, Andorra 205
Average Rank: 72.8

Group E: Switzerland 15, Norway 25, Albania 38, Slovenia 45, Iceland 70, Cyprus 123
Average Rank: 52.7

Group F: Portugal 7, Russia 16, Israel 63, Northern Ireland 109, Azerbaijan 115, Luxembourg 140
Average Rank: 75

Group G: Greece 11, Bosnia & Herzegovina 13, Slovakia 62, Lithuania 106, Latvia 119, Liechtenstein 148
Average Rank: 76.5

Group H: England 14, Montenegro 28, Ukraine 28, Poland 72, Moldova 123, San Marino 207
Average Rank: 78.7

Group I: Spain 1, France 23, Finland 65, Belarus 73, Georgia 97
Average Rank: 51.8

CONCACAF Hexagonal: USA 19, Mexico 20, Panama 40, Costa Rica 42, Honduras 43, Jamaica 76
Average Rank: 40

Huh. How about that? It's widely known that the FIFA Rankings are flawed and skewed heavily towards European teams. Yet according to these flawed rankings that make CONCACAF look worse than it actually is, the Hexagonal is STILL harder than ANY UEFA qualifying group, and only Group A is even CLOSE to being as hard as the Hex.

I know, the argument against is that each European group only gives 1.5 spots per group. But the USA has to play 8 games against 4 different top-50 opponents. The traditional top teams in Europe don't play nearly as tough a road. Spain and Portugal have 1 other top-50 nation in their group, England, Germany, Italy, and Holland all have only 2 other top-50 nations in their group. And that's using a rating system that actually makes their competition look better than it actually is.

setyoursightsnorth, your whole argument about the strength of Europe is a joke. It all falls apart when you look at these piss-poor groups, because for every game a European power plays against a top-50 opponent, they play 2-3 games against a Belarus, Malta, Andorra, or Georgia. They are walking a road paved in gold while we are walking one paved in bags of cat urine thrown by Costa Rican and Panamanian fans.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on September 09, 2013, 11:58:24 AM
USA outcome almost doesn't bother me when we get treated as we do in CR, Honduras, etc. as long as Mexico loses.  I have suffered the ignominy of our team and national anthem dissed by tens of thousands of "guests" from South of the Border who  whistle and jeer during the SSB and deride our team in the country that employs, houses, educates and medicates them because their beloved Mexico cannot/willnot.
It is a good day when Mexico loses and ,particularly, at home it is more delicious.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 09, 2013, 12:07:54 PM
This actually got me to thinking...

Huh. How about that? It's widely known that the FIFA Rankings are flawed and skewed heavily towards European teams. Yet according to these flawed rankings that make CONCACAF look worse than it actually is, the Hexagonal is STILL harder than ANY UEFA qualifying group, and only Group A is even CLOSE to being as hard as the Hex.

I know, the argument against is that each European group only gives 1.5 spots per group. But the USA has to play 8 games against 4 different top-50 opponents. The traditional top teams in Europe don't play nearly as tough a road. Spain and Portugal have 1 other top-50 nation in their group, England, Germany, Italy, and Holland all have only 2 other top-50 nations in their group. And that's using a rating system that actually makes their competition look better than it actually is.

setyoursightsnorth, your whole argument about the strength of Europe is a joke. It all falls apart when you look at these piss-poor groups, because for every game a European power plays against a top-50 opponent, they play 2-3 games against a Belarus, Malta, Andorra, or Georgia. They are walking a road paved in gold while we are walking one paved in bags of cat urine thrown by Costa Rican and Panamanian fans.

boom. owned.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on September 10, 2013, 02:43:36 PM
Predictions for tonight? I have two.

1) Ugly, physical stalemate. I have a feeling we'll see a 0-0 draw.
2) setyoursightsnorth will come in and sh*t on the discussion again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 10, 2013, 02:52:28 PM
Predictions for tonight? I have two.

1) Ugly, physical stalemate. I have a feeling we'll see a 0-0 draw.
2) setyoursightsnorth will come in and sh*t on the discussion again.

Could get really ugly considering our suspensions. I don't think Dempsey is good as our striker. He needs a second striker to help. If we go with a lone striker, I think it should be AJ
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on September 10, 2013, 02:56:20 PM
Could get really ugly considering our suspensions. I don't think Dempsey is good as our striker. He needs a second striker to help. If we go with a lone striker, I think it should be AJ

What about the Eddie? I know he is not the same level, but he has had some recent success upfront with Duece.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Aughnanure on September 10, 2013, 03:01:40 PM
So the 2022 World Cup is going to be played in the ... winter?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/11/sports/soccer/qatar-world-cup-a-little-late-for-common-sense.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on September 10, 2013, 03:08:39 PM
A draw would be fine by me.  That basically means a win v Jamaica in October is enough.

And I wonder why a winter World Cup wasn't thought of previously?  They mu$t have had $omething el$e on their mind$...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 10, 2013, 05:36:51 PM
As much as I want a win, a draw would be fine for the long-term. It'd virtually assure us advancing. I'd like to see Eddie up front, AJ hasn't played in this kind of a pressure-cooker yet, rather see someone with experience get the start. Still irritated about the Besler "foul" that took him out of this game. Anyone who hasn't seen the despicable act by Joel Rodriguez (my new least favorite player in the world, hope someone breaks his leg tonight) check this article and skip ahead in the video to about 5:40.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/wp/2013/09/09/heres-why-matt-besler-is-suspended/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on September 10, 2013, 06:42:36 PM
Turned on the Colombia match just now and watched them give up two quick goals...So disappointing and now feel like a jinx.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on September 10, 2013, 09:03:02 PM
Nice win.

The Honduras - Panama game is on now on BeIN TV on channel 620 if interested.  If Panama loses or draws, USA in the World Cup
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: melissasmooth on September 10, 2013, 09:40:12 PM
aaah, nice to relax with roommate and friends and drink to victory
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on September 10, 2013, 11:19:04 PM
This actually got me to thinking...

UEFA Qualifying Groups:

Group A: Croatia 8, Belgium 10, Serbia 41, Wales 46, Scotland 50, Macedonia 89
Average Rank: 40.7

Group B: Italy 6, Czech Republic 26, Denmark 27, Bulgaria 53, Armenia 66, Malta 134
Average Rank: 52

Group C: Germany 2, Sweden 30, Ireland 44, Austria 55, Kazakhstan 149, Faroe Islands 175
Average Rank: 75.8

Group D: Netherlands 5, Hungary 31, Romania 33, Turkey 58, Estonia 85, Andorra 205
Average Rank: 72.8

Group E: Switzerland 15, Norway 25, Albania 38, Slovenia 45, Iceland 70, Cyprus 123
Average Rank: 52.7

Group F: Portugal 7, Russia 16, Israel 63, Northern Ireland 109, Azerbaijan 115, Luxembourg 140
Average Rank: 75

Group G: Greece 11, Bosnia & Herzegovina 13, Slovakia 62, Lithuania 106, Latvia 119, Liechtenstein 148
Average Rank: 76.5

Group H: England 14, Montenegro 28, Ukraine 28, Poland 72, Moldova 123, San Marino 207
Average Rank: 78.7

Group I: Spain 1, France 23, Finland 65, Belarus 73, Georgia 97
Average Rank: 51.8

CONCACAF Hexagonal: USA 19, Mexico 20, Panama 40, Costa Rica 42, Honduras 43, Jamaica 76
Average Rank: 40

Huh. How about that? It's widely known that the FIFA Rankings are flawed and skewed heavily towards European teams. Yet according to these flawed rankings that make CONCACAF look worse than it actually is, the Hexagonal is STILL harder than ANY UEFA qualifying group, and only Group A is even CLOSE to being as hard as the Hex.

I know, the argument against is that each European group only gives 1.5 spots per group. But the USA has to play 8 games against 4 different top-50 opponents. The traditional top teams in Europe don't play nearly as tough a road. Spain and Portugal have 1 other top-50 nation in their group, England, Germany, Italy, and Holland all have only 2 other top-50 nations in their group. And that's using a rating system that actually makes their competition look better than it actually is.

setyoursightsnorth, your whole argument about the strength of Europe is a joke. It all falls apart when you look at these piss-poor groups, because for every game a European power plays against a top-50 opponent, they play 2-3 games against a Belarus, Malta, Andorra, or Georgia. They are walking a road paved in gold while we are walking one paved in bags of cat urine thrown by Costa Rican and Panamanian fans.

European Qualification is not a joke. These CONCACAF teams are good because they play minnows like Jamaica and Canada three times a year and it adds up to good "rankings". If you take Panama and a comparable team like Slovenia, I would put my whole life savings on Slovenia. The difference in class and ability in Europe is so small that rankings become minuscule and don't mean anything (as we've previously stated). In the 2014 UEFA qualifiers, Northern Ireland beat Russia. Israel tied with Portugal. England drew with the likes of Ukraine, Poland, and Montenegro. These games are always enjoyable because they're unpredictable. You know that the USA will beat Belize, Panama, and Honduras. It's a two horse race every single time. You can lose a game or two and be completely fine, whereas in Europe, one loss and you fall out of the group. It's not a "road paved in gold" by any stretch of the imagination. There is simply more class to be found in Europe, even in the "lower" tier teams than there is in CONCACAF and you're a fool to argue otherwise.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on September 11, 2013, 12:11:13 AM
I was once in England at a pub during World Cup qualifying in 1993.  The English had just been beat earlier in the week and they were screwed.  They had to beat San Marino by something like 7 goals to have a chance to advance and have the Holland lose to Poland in their group lose as well.  The Brits wanted their coach (Graham Taylor) dead, they were so pissed.  In the first minute....literally, San Marino scored...this was one of the worst soccer teams I had ever seen and I know a bit about the game (went to Final Four as a junior on my high school team in Calif, played against Kobi Jone, Eric Wynalda, etc).

At any rate, the English come back and scored 7 straight goals and the place is going crazy because they might just get the 7 goal differential.  Meanwhile, Holland are playing at the same time on the tube in this pub.  It was quite fun...the most desperate fan base I have ever seen, pissed beyond belief, then actually getting nutty for about 25 minutes as the impossible was about to happen, only to fall short by scoring 7 goals and not 8....oh, and the Poles ended up losing.  England missed the World Cup. 

I bring it up only because Hexagonal may not be as tough as some other groups, but there are also teams in Europe that are just outright laughable.  That San Marino team was an embarrassment to futbol.  Teams like Macedonia, Andorra, Cyprus, the Faroes, Moldova, Malta, Iceland, etc....equally just straight up brutal.  I would take Jamaica over any of those teams.

http://www.youtube.com/v/BKDh04AN-Us
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on September 11, 2013, 01:55:00 AM
I would take the Marquette Men's soccer team over San Marino.  :D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on September 11, 2013, 08:13:41 AM
Nice win.

The Honduras - Panama game is on now on BeIN TV on channel 620 if interested.  If Panama loses or draws, USA in the World Cup

Get that off the Sports Pack so I can watch it!   ;D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 11, 2013, 09:56:36 AM
I wrote it in February, June, July, and I'll finish it off here in September:

Klinsy is fine. He's playing around. And has been since the beginning. He knows it's a virtual lock to qualify. Everything he does is with the idea of seeing what they're capable of in Brazil for those first three games.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on September 11, 2013, 10:43:08 AM
A missed PK? C'mon man.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 11, 2013, 10:49:25 AM
A missed PK? C'mon man.

In the end it didn't matter, but I really hope Klinsy sits down with Clint and says "I know you're the captain, but let Donovan take the spot kicks." Clint got a lucky spin on the PK at Costa Rica and flat out missed last night. Landon is a stone cold killer from the spot. Say what you will about LD, I would put him up against anyone in the world when it comes to taking penalties. There aren't many better and none from the US are even close.

If the game's on the line, we need Donovan at the spot. Clint's a fine player, but not a tenth the penalty taker LD is.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on September 11, 2013, 10:54:23 AM
In the end it didn't matter, but I really hope Klinsy sits down with Clint and says "I know you're the captain, but let Donovan take the spot kicks." Clint got a lucky spin on the PK at Costa Rica and flat out missed last night. Landon is a stone cold killer from the spot. Say what you will about LD, I would put him up against anyone in the world when it comes to taking penalties. There aren't many better and none from the US are even close.

If the game's on the line, we need Donovan at the spot. Clint's a fine player, but not a tenth the penalty taker LD is.


So you aren't going with the "he missed it on purpose" line?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on September 11, 2013, 10:55:21 AM

So you aren't going with the "he missed it on purpose" line?

I am.

Dos a cero lives.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on September 11, 2013, 10:56:05 AM

So you aren't going with the "he missed it on purpose" line?
[/quote

Against Mexico?  Are you?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on September 11, 2013, 10:58:47 AM
Entertaining game.   Hard to believe how uninspired Mexico looked. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: lab_warrior on September 11, 2013, 11:01:28 AM
I am.

Dos a cero lives.


I was poised to make a tidy profit with my "TRES A CERO" Tshirts before
Clint boned that PK...sigh...

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 11, 2013, 11:15:07 AM

So you aren't going with the "he missed it on purpose" line?

If so, I'd be even more upset. Goal differential matters, especially with us coming in -4 compared to Costa Rica. The "Dos a cero" tradition doesn't mean you should deliberately do something that could cost your country top of the group. I still think we get top of the group and we are obviously through, but we weren't when he took the kick and I really dislike the idea of our captain intentionally missing when it could ultimately matter.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on September 11, 2013, 11:35:00 AM
Get that off the Sports Pack so I can watch it!   ;D

Can I bill you directly for the cost?   ;)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on September 11, 2013, 12:28:59 PM
Entertaining game.   Hard to believe how uninspired Mexico looked. 


I just don't think they're that good.  They have some very good strikers, but nothing creative in the mid-field and they look quite small. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on September 11, 2013, 02:10:24 PM
If so, I'd be even more upset. Goal differential matters, especially with us coming in -4 compared to Costa Rica. The "Dos a cero" tradition doesn't mean you should deliberately do something that could cost your country top of the group. I still think we get top of the group and we are obviously through, but we weren't when he took the kick and I really dislike the idea of our captain intentionally missing when it could ultimately matter.
  Doubt that the miss was intentional.  If it was, that's a problem.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 11, 2013, 02:45:17 PM
I just don't think they're that good.  They have some very good strikers, but nothing creative in the mid-field and they look quite small. 

I really think it's a failure in the coaching mindset. This is about as talented as Mexico has been in my lifetime, but they don't have near the physicality or toughness they are known for. They dominated us early and did the same to Honduras, but they just can't keep it up. They need a manager to reinvigorate them, or a willingness to select players based on their strength instead of their flash. It's really amazing to see how different the perception is of the US and Mexico versus a year ago.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: melissasmooth on September 11, 2013, 07:00:28 PM
Was watching the game with a friend and they said the mexican team doesnt have as many a**holes on the team as in the past. Maybe that is what they are missing :)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 12, 2013, 09:20:50 AM
Was watching the game with a friend and they said the mexican team doesnt have as many a**holes on the team as in the past. Maybe that is what they are missing :)

But there are plenty in the stands supporting El Tri, so I think it evens out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 12, 2013, 11:23:04 AM
But there are plenty in the stands supporting El Tri, so I think it evens out.

The first USA/Mexico match I went to was the 2007 Gold Cup Final in Chicago. I learned more that day about how to be a good fan from the Mexican supporters than I did in the 30 previous years of my life watching sports. I would guess 98% of Soldier was wearing green, but they were the most gracious fans, not only after the game but during. There was one guy (out of thousands) that shouted something disparaging at us, but when it was even they just wanted to see a goal, even if they didn't score it. When we equalized and went ahead, the Mexican fans acknowledged the quality of play (especially Feilhaber's brilliant winner, the best goal I've ever seen live and it's not even close) and while cheering for their team didn't really get down on ours.

I hate the Mexican team, but I really do respect their fans. Whether it's the ones that show up for the matches live or the guys I see at Highbury, both frequently and infrequently, they respect the game and respect our team. They are passionate about their own, but they are without a doubt the classiest rival fanbase I have ever encountered. I honestly have a tough time rooting against them sometimes, simply because their fans deserve to have a great team.
















But they I see Chicharito's douchey face, or have memories of Borgetti, and remember they are still Mexico and I hate them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on September 12, 2013, 11:40:09 AM
The first USA/Mexico match I went to was the 2007 Gold Cup Final in Chicago. I learned more that day about how to be a good fan from the Mexican supporters than I did in the 30 previous years of my life watching sports. I would guess 98% of Soldier was wearing green, but they were the most gracious fans, not only after the game but during. There was one guy (out of thousands) that shouted something disparaging at us, but when it was even they just wanted to see a goal, even if they didn't score it. When we equalized and went ahead, the Mexican fans acknowledged the quality of play (especially Feilhaber's brilliant winner, the best goal I've ever seen live and it's not even close) and while cheering for their team didn't really get down on ours.

I hate the Mexican team, but I really do respect their fans. Whether it's the ones that show up for the matches live or the guys I see at Highbury, both frequently and infrequently, they respect the game and respect our team. They are passionate about their own, but they are without a doubt the classiest rival fanbase I have ever encountered. I honestly have a tough time rooting against them sometimes, simply because their fans deserve to have a great team.
















But they I see Chicharito's douchey face, or have memories of Borgetti, and remember they are still Mexico and I hate them.

Completely agree, Mexico supporters love their football team and I have no problems with them at all. I dont have a problem with the actually team either like most of you do. That may just be because I grew up around more Mexican soccer fans then US soccer fans.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 12, 2013, 11:43:46 AM
Glad you had a positive experience with the Mexican fans.
Of course, Mexican fans have also been known to chant "Osama, Osama, Osama" at games against the U.S., drown out the "Star Spangled Banner" with boos, and throw bottles full of urine at opposing players (and their fans).
They're the best.
(note: No doubt every fanbase has its turds)

Just a handful of accounts:

http://deadspin.com/mexican-fans-drill-costa-rican-soccer-player-in-the-hea-512784144

http://www.uproxx.com/sports/2011/06/mexican-soccer-fans-are-boorish-animals-a-first-hand-account/

http://thebiglead.com/2013/03/27/mexican-soccer-fans-threw-beers-at-american-soccer-fans-celebrating-a-tie-chanting-u-s-a-at-azteca-video/

http://deadspin.com/friendly-mexican-league-match-in-las-vegas-gets-viole-667020550

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on September 12, 2013, 01:12:28 PM
Interesting Data Point

MLS games averaged more than 18,807 per game last season, more than both the NBA (17,274) and the NHL (17,455).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on September 12, 2013, 01:40:59 PM
Interesting Data Point

MLS games averaged more than 18,807 per game last season, more than both the NBA (17,274) and the NHL (17,455).

In fairness NBA arenas only seat about 18-19k and NHL arenas even less because the ice is much larger then a basketball court (unless it doesnt share the same space as a basketball arena)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 12, 2013, 02:00:08 PM
Some of the stadiums have huge capacity, but only when associated with football. Most seem to be averaged 19-20K. Either way, for them to basically be filling the stadiums is impressive in a sport thats the 4th? 5th? most popular in the US.

List of stadiums/capacities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Soccer_stadiums
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 12, 2013, 02:29:35 PM
Interesting Data Point

MLS games averaged more than 18,807 per game last season, more than both the NBA (17,274) and the NHL (17,455).

MLS average = 89 percent capacity
NHL average = 97 percent capacity
NBA average = ????*

Also, ticket prices:
NBA average = $48.48
NHL average = $57.10
MLS average = $26.15

* Can't find anywhere, for some reason. But 18 of 30 teams average 91 percent or better capacity.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on September 12, 2013, 02:44:29 PM
MLS average = 89 percent capacity
NHL average = 97 percent capacity
NBA average = ????

Also, ticket prices:
NBA average = $48.48
NHL average = $57.10
MLS average = $26.15

Totally agree. Certainly there is more demand for NBA/NHL tickets. The higher prices provide one clear counter point for how MLS is not a bigger sport than the NBA/NBL right now.

While season attendance trends have been positive for MLS, who knows if they will continue to rise to the point where it is more competitive with the pricing of the NBA/NHL?

I was just surprised that MLS was averaging higher attendance. That alone was surprising.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 12, 2013, 03:35:47 PM
Totally agree. Certainly there is more demand for NBA/NHL tickets. The higher prices provide one clear counter point for how MLS is not a bigger sport than the NBA/NBL right now.

While season attendance trends have been positive for MLS, who knows if they will continue to rise to the point where it is more competitive with the pricing of the NBA/NHL?

I was just surprised that MLS was averaging higher attendance. That alone was surprising.

The MLS teams have done a phenomenal job of building very loyal fanbases. While most people point to the fervent support for Seattle and Portland, I'm equally impressed by markets like Kansas City and Columbus, both of which have strong local bases. It's easy to build up fan support in a place like Chicago, LA, or New York simply because there are so many people that you are bound to find some that have an interest. But to see how dedicated fans are in the mid-size markets is really impressive.

All the more disappointing that Milwaukee screwed the pooch on the Park East Corridor, where Peter Wilt and others were trying to build a stadium to attract a MLS team. FC New York will be team #20, and the current plan is to expand to 24, with Atlanta and Minneapolis as the leaders for the next 2 teams. If Milwaukee got a bid together, I think they could put up a strong argument for one of those last two teams, but if they don't do it soon, we will likely never see a MLS team here. FIFA has already bristled at current MLS expansion and we would likely cost any shot of hosting a future World Cup if our top flight went beyond 24 teams. And without a promotion/relegation system in place (or likely ever coming, that was a screw-up from the start) I could easily see the league's expansion ending in the next few years.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on September 12, 2013, 03:44:04 PM
FIFA would hold it against the United States if MLS went beyond 24 teams?  What is their reasoning?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 12, 2013, 03:48:06 PM
A little more data...

http://mlsattendance.blogspot.com/2013/09/week-28-attendance-update.html?m=1

holy schnikes Seattle
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on September 12, 2013, 03:53:15 PM
A little more data...

http://mlsattendance.blogspot.com/2013/09/week-28-attendance-update.html?m=1

holy schnikes Seattle


You take out the disaster that is Chivas USA, attendance is actually up this year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 13, 2013, 08:03:16 AM
FIFA would hold it against the United States if MLS went beyond 24 teams?  What is their reasoning?

FIFA puts a lot of emphasis on leagues having a unilateral "look". Most European top flights are 18-20 teams that play a round-robin schedule, so 34-36 games. Some second tiers (England's Championship) have 24 teams, but that size league isn't really what they want at the top levels.

FIFA very much likes the home-and-away schedule structure, and our current model is pushing away from that. The notion of conferences also isn't something that they like. If we went to 30 teams, there is no way we'd play a 58-game schedule and conform with what FIFA prefers. Would they be okay with a 2-conference, 34 game schedule (2x conference opponents, 1x non-conference)? I don't know, but this is a very traditional organization and I'm not sure we want to chance it. I think running a 46-game schedule is better for us in regards to the long-term world recognition.

The real problem is that FIFA is still a European organization with European traditions. When we mess with our schedule, have a vastly different window due to when we play, use a post-season playoff to determine champions, and refuse to institute promotion and relegation, many of the voting types view it as us trying to Americanize the sport they love. And when it comes to landing a World Cup, these are the people we need to impress.

I know it's pretty much irrelevant now, but the biggest mistake MLS made was not using promotion and relegation from the start. They should have started with 12 teams instead of 10, a home-and-away schedule for 22 games, and immediately put promotion/relegation in place by offering the first spots to existing teams in the NASL and USL (relieving start-up costs).

They also should have put a relegation protection in for a period of time. Say 6 years, which would have not only protected the investment of the initial teams but also given the second tier sides time to build bigger stadiums (make 12,000 the minimum capacity for a top flight side, virtually all European leagues have similar requirements). Then set up the league for planned expansion allowing teams to be added to the top tier with a 3-year relegation protection so you could still expand teams into big markets without immediately relegating them.

It's all hindsight and would have taken longer for MLS to grow into a fully developed league, but in terms of world recognition and likelihood of getting a second chance to host the World Cup our odds would have been much better. Blatter has already condemned our league and expansion publicly, and while he won't be king forever, he represents a short-sighted, traditional way of thinking that is too pervasive in FIFA.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on September 13, 2013, 08:15:43 AM
Thanks for the explanation.

I just find it bizarre, that after all the missteps that have taken place with professional soccer in America, that they wouldn't view MLS as anything but success.  And frankly that has helped increase the popularity of the sport and helped lead to things like the EPL's recent contract with NBC Sports.

And yeah I realize that European soccer leagues have traditions like round-robin play, lack of a postseason, etc.  But American sports have traditions too.  I mean the last major sport without a postseason tournament (college football) is heading right down that road.  To keep interest high, they have had to conform to those traditions.  And I have my doubts that promotion/relegation would work here.  I mean, what if the LA Galaxy were relegated early in the league's existence.  You all of the sudden have the second largest market in the country without a team, instantly turning the media contracts less valuable, and potentially turning off a bunch of fans who aren't interested in watching a second-tier league.

Not to mention that the 1994 World Cup was the most attended by far in the history of the tournament, and would even be more popular now if it returned.  The television contracts that FIFA could get for that would be very, very lucrative.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 15, 2013, 10:54:47 AM
You don't have to sell it to me. I think promotion/relegation would have worked here if instituted from the start, but as much as I think it would increase interest for traditional fans, the genie is out of the bottle now and there's no way you put a pro/rel cap on it.

There are things we can legitimately do, and the main thing would be to conform to the European calendar. Play games from September through May. Though in my opinion, I think the best thing to do would be to conform to an Eastern European calendar. Start play in August and run for 18 weeks to the start of December. In this span, make sure you get at least 20 matches in. For the first month of the season, play on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday with a few mid-week matchdays scattered in to get to 20 (probably 4 to avoid international breaks).

Then take a break for about 2 months. Mid-December through the first weekend in February. This allows the MLS to avoid competing with NFL playoffs, bowl games, and most important, the Super Bowl (though returning on Super Bowl weekend with games on Saturday and daytime Sunday, when not much else is going on, may be a savvy move). When you come back, make sure the first four weeks or so of games are mainly played at southern or west coast stadiums to avoid the worst of the weather (thinking Chicago, Columbus, and NYC) while also making sure all the teams are playing about 1.5 matches per week. Finish the season in 10 weeks, which gets you to the beginning of May so they can have their playoffs in May, finishing up before the NBA and NHL Finals start, and more importantly, with time left before any World Cup or other summer tournaments.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 19, 2013, 03:30:42 PM
Glad you had a positive experience with the Mexican fans.
Of course, Mexican fans have also been known to chant "Osama, Osama, Osama" at games against the U.S., drown out the "Star Spangled Banner" with boos, and throw bottles full of urine at opposing players (and their fans).
They're the best.
(note: No doubt every fanbase has its turds)

Just a handful of accounts:

http://deadspin.com/mexican-fans-drill-costa-rican-soccer-player-in-the-hea-512784144

http://www.uproxx.com/sports/2011/06/mexican-soccer-fans-are-boorish-animals-a-first-hand-account/

http://thebiglead.com/2013/03/27/mexican-soccer-fans-threw-beers-at-american-soccer-fans-celebrating-a-tie-chanting-u-s-a-at-azteca-video/

http://deadspin.com/friendly-mexican-league-match-in-las-vegas-gets-viole-667020550

Was interesting reading all the positive peace stories of Mexican fans. I had a piss bomb thrown on me by a seven year old at that 2007 Gold Cup final.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 08, 2013, 11:10:10 AM
So if we draw either of our upcoming games against Jamaica or Panama, any hopes of this are probably off, but it's not impossible that the USA could sneak into one of the seeded positions for the 2014 World Cup. Teams in bold are already in the World Cup, teams in green are likely locked into one of the 8 seeded positions. Here are the current rankings:

1) Spain
2) Argentina
3) Germany
4) Italy
5) Colombia
6) Belgium
7) Uruguay
8) Brazil
9) Netherlands

10) Croatia
11) Portugal
12) Greece
13) USA
14) Switzerland
15) Russia

Okay...Spain and Germany aren't yet in, but both have a ridiculously easy road to winning their groups and assuring qualification and seeded positions. As host, Brazil is also locked in. With the Argies and Italians both qualified, that locks up 5 of the 8 positions. So the hope is that the USA can be one of the top 8 qualified teams. To get there, the USA must win both games. Here's what else to hope for:

.
Bottom Line[/u]

Cheer for Ecuador. They can't pass us but can help knock out Uruguay and Chile from seeding consideration. Pull for a Netherlands loss, an England draw in either match, and Croatia and Portugal to go to playoffs. A lot has to go right, but it's not unthinkable that we could be one of the top 8 teams come December's draw.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on October 08, 2013, 11:50:38 AM
My money is on Belgium in WC 2014, currently sitting at about 18/1.  That's tasty.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 08, 2013, 02:09:33 PM
Belgium's good for the money, but I like Brazil or Argentina to win it. Spain last cycle was the only European side to ever win the Cup not on European soil, and I just get the sense Belgium doesn't have the experience to win the whole thing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 08, 2013, 03:19:14 PM
Brew, SI writes an article that says it is pretty much a near impossibility for the US to get a top 8 seed:

http://soccer.si.com/2013/10/08/2014-world-cup-draw-us-not-getting-top-eight-seed/

I will point out that a easier path to top a WC group might actually be to be drawn against a top seed like Uruguay or Croatia.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on October 08, 2013, 03:54:46 PM
You don't have to sell it to me. I think promotion/relegation would have worked here if instituted from the start, but as much as I think it would increase interest for traditional fans, the genie is out of the bottle now and there's no way you put a pro/rel cap on it.

There are things we can legitimately do, and the main thing would be to conform to the European calendar. Play games from September through May. Though in my opinion, I think the best thing to do would be to conform to an Eastern European calendar. Start play in August and run for 18 weeks to the start of December. In this span, make sure you get at least 20 matches in. For the first month of the season, play on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday with a few mid-week matchdays scattered in to get to 20 (probably 4 to avoid international breaks).

Then take a break for about 2 months. Mid-December through the first weekend in February. This allows the MLS to avoid competing with NFL playoffs, bowl games, and most important, the Super Bowl (though returning on Super Bowl weekend with games on Saturday and daytime Sunday, when not much else is going on, may be a savvy move). When you come back, make sure the first four weeks or so of games are mainly played at southern or west coast stadiums to avoid the worst of the weather (thinking Chicago, Columbus, and NYC) while also making sure all the teams are playing about 1.5 matches per week. Finish the season in 10 weeks, which gets you to the beginning of May so they can have their playoffs in May, finishing up before the NBA and NHL Finals start, and more importantly, with time left before any World Cup or other summer tournaments.

The European calendar is one of the most critical reasons for FIFA's "displeasure" with MLS.  The great irony of all that is the 2022 "Winter" World Cup talk going on.  This is why FIFA is just insane, they criticize MLS for not following convention and then award a WC to a nation that even if played in the winter(non-conventional) would require cooling stoppages at the 30th and 75th minute.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 08, 2013, 04:01:56 PM
The European calendar is one of the most critical reasons for FIFA's "displeasure" with MLS.  The great irony of all that is the 2022 "Winter" World Cup talk going on.  This is why FIFA is just insane, they criticize MLS for not following convention and then award a WC to a nation that even if played in the winter(non-conventional) would require cooling stoppages at the 30th and 75th minute.


It make$ you $cratch your head and a$k..."What motivate$ FIFA to $elect Qatar?"
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on October 08, 2013, 04:09:49 PM

It make$ you $cratch your head and a$k..."What motivate$ FIFA to $elect Qatar?"

I $ee what you did there
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on October 08, 2013, 05:39:10 PM
Belgium's good for the money, but I like Brazil or Argentina to win it. Spain last cycle was the only European side to ever win the Cup not on European soil, and I just get the sense Belgium doesn't have the experience to win the whole thing.

I would never bet on them in any tournament ever. Have a great group of players but always underachieve. Too dependent on Messi. I would put my money on the Germans. Or anyone other than Spain for that matter. Time for a new king to be crowned.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 09, 2013, 07:16:03 AM
I would never bet on them in any tournament ever. Have a great group of players but always underachieve. Too dependent on Messi. I would put my money on the Germans. Or anyone other than Spain for that matter. Time for a new king to be crowned.


Argentina is a different team than they were last go around.  They have developed some good talent to go along with Messi (Higuain, Aguero).  But I am with you...if I had to pick a European squad, it would be Germany.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 09, 2013, 08:11:07 AM
European teams don't typically have much success in World Cups outside Europe. Spain was the first Euro winner not on Euro soil. I would be surprised to see a second successive Euro winner on foreign soil when it never happened before 2010.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 11, 2013, 06:08:57 PM
If our future is bedoya, diskerud and johannsson, I'm feeling pretty good about it.

Honduras won and qualified tonight. If USA wins, we win the hex. Mexico has to be pressured beyond belief right n ow.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 11, 2013, 07:21:35 PM
Torn between flipping on gomarquette.com and Madness or Mexico/Panama.

In other news...Chile probably killed our remote seeded dreams when they squandered a 3-0 halftime lead to draw Colombia 3-3. That guarantees Spain, Argentina, Germany, Italy, Colombia, Belgium, and Brazil will finish ahead of us. USA's only hope is Uruguay losing a playoff with Jordan, the Dutch losing at Turkey, and a few other things going right. Though I did hear a rumor of 2 seeded pots (1-8 and 9-16) today...not sure if there's anything to that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 15, 2013, 08:54:44 PM
USA down 1-0. Just let panama win and get out with no injuries. Then pray Costa Rica can pull out a huge victory and shut out Mexico from the WC
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on October 15, 2013, 09:05:36 PM
Can someone explain how the top 8 seeds are decided and if Colombia has a chance to be one of those teams?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Tortuga94 on October 15, 2013, 10:23:13 PM
wow!!! USA saves Mexico.  What an unreal night of soccer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 15, 2013, 10:27:57 PM
i can't... i don't even... unbelievable. Bob Ley with the tweet of the night:

"You will live 100 years and never see the past 45 minutes replicated across three games as tonight. Oh by the way, the USA were amazing."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on October 15, 2013, 10:29:44 PM
Was it televised? where?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Tortuga94 on October 15, 2013, 10:32:10 PM
Chicharito really blew a couple of clear chances in this game for Mexico.  He must feel like he just won the lottery.  He would have really heard it from the Mexican media.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 15, 2013, 10:38:32 PM
Was it televised? where?

Thanks.

The USA game? It was on beIN sport. They bought the rights to all USA away games.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Tortuga94 on October 15, 2013, 10:43:42 PM
I don't know if the US game was televised, I couldn't find it.  I watched the Mexico vs Costa Rica game.

I am a Mexico soccer fan, but do also like the US too.  I was born in the states to Mexican parents and when I was a kid US soccer was a joke.
So I grew up liking Mexican soccer on the international stage, so that is why they are my team, but I do also root for the US.

I like this US team alot, Klinsman is a good coach.  His team plays with no fear and I really like the way the play.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 15, 2013, 11:49:12 PM
I'm legally changing my name to Aron Zusi. At least...that's what I want on my passport. I'll never pay for another drink on vacations to Mexico as long as I live.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 16, 2013, 08:46:14 AM
Can someone explain how the top 8 seeds are decided and if Colombia has a chance to be one of those teams?


It's based on FIFA rankings.  And it looks like Colombia is one of those teams:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/world-cup-2014-seedings-england-2458076
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 16, 2013, 08:46:59 AM
I must admit, there was more than a little part of me that wanted the US to lose that game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on October 16, 2013, 09:40:21 AM
I must admit, there was more than a little part of me that wanted the US to lose that game.

Yup. Especially when both games were at 2-1. It was honestly a bizarre experience watching that all play out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 16, 2013, 10:49:12 AM
I must admit, there was more than a little part of me that wanted the US to lose that game.

But also nice to know that the US basically shamed Mexico into their World Cup qualification. That sting will linger for some time down there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 16, 2013, 11:45:33 AM
But also nice to know that the US basically shamed Mexico into their World Cup qualification. That sting will linger for some time down there.


In this Deadspin piece, you can hear the Mexican announcers go nuts as the US scores.  And in the comments below you can get an interpretation...and to say the least, it is brutal.

http://deadspin.com/the-usmnt-saves-mexico-and-mexico-is-eternally-gratefu-1446262947
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 16, 2013, 12:53:17 PM
I wanted Mexico to get knocked out, but considering the outrage, it's all worth it to have them advance ONLY because we gifted it to them. If you haven't seen it, here's the interpretation. Hilarious.

"GOOOOAAAAAAL The US of A PUTS us in the playoffs!!!!!" USA!
"It is because of the USA that we are being placed in the playoff ...BECAUSE OF THEM , NOT DUE TO YOU..NOT ANY OF YOU in the green shirts ....IT WAS THEM!!.NOT YOU!..THEY DID IT!!!!!NOT YOU! remember this forever..... KEEP THIS CLEARLY IN MIND FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIVES! You do NOTHING for the shirt, you do NOT put the effort, you have NOTplaced us in the playoffs , you HAVE NOT placed us in the WORLD CUP ..YOU WOULD NOT HAVE KEPT US ALIVE....IT WAS ESTADOS UNIDOS, NOT YOU.! .NOT YOU AND YOUR ARROGANCE/CONCEIT.....NOT YOU AND YOUR INFAMY....NOT YOU AND YOUR MORONS/PUNKS....
....
"IT IS A FAILURE.....and UNDESERVED -to go through to the playoff- WE HAD NO ARGUMENTS to earn the playoffs, THE USA, WITH SUBS , WITH MANY SUBS as the visiting team shows us once again what the USA is all about ....how to play the game with dignity, how to approach the sport..MExico is a horror, just terrible....A FAILURE....
......
THE USA HAS SURPASSED US ..They are better than Mexico in SOCCER ....THEY EVEN HAVE THE LUXURY OF PLAYING THEIR SUBS and KEEPING US LIVE.... I hope our coach wears the pants and resigns..He has failed as coach...."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 16, 2013, 01:04:38 PM
I wanted Mexico to get knocked out, but considering the outrage, it's all worth it to have them advance ONLY because we gifted it to them. If you haven't seen it, here's the interpretation. Hilarious.

"GOOOOAAAAAAL The US of A PUTS us in the playoffs!!!!!" USA!
"It is because of the USA that we are being placed in the playoff ...BECAUSE OF THEM , NOT DUE TO YOU..NOT ANY OF YOU in the green shirts ....IT WAS THEM!!.NOT YOU!..THEY DID IT!!!!!NOT YOU! remember this forever..... KEEP THIS CLEARLY IN MIND FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIVES! You do NOTHING for the shirt, you do NOT put the effort, you have NOTplaced us in the playoffs , you HAVE NOT placed us in the WORLD CUP ..YOU WOULD NOT HAVE KEPT US ALIVE....IT WAS ESTADOS UNIDOS, NOT YOU.! .NOT YOU AND YOUR ARROGANCE/CONCEIT.....NOT YOU AND YOUR INFAMY....NOT YOU AND YOUR MORONS/PUNKS....
....
"IT IS A FAILURE.....and UNDESERVED -to go through to the playoff- WE HAD NO ARGUMENTS to earn the playoffs, THE USA, WITH SUBS , WITH MANY SUBS as the visiting team shows us once again what the USA is all about ....how to play the game with dignity, how to approach the sport..MExico is a horror, just terrible....A FAILURE....
......
THE USA HAS SURPASSED US ..They are better than Mexico in SOCCER ....THEY EVEN HAVE THE LUXURY OF PLAYING THEIR SUBS and KEEPING US LIVE.... I hope our coach wears the pants and resigns..He has failed as coach...."


that guy is straight up going to be murdered
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on October 16, 2013, 02:13:35 PM
that guy is straight up going to be murdered

Based on the admittedly small sample size of coworkers who live in Mexico and are rabid fans.....they are in 100% agreement with everything the broadcaster said.

In fact, one guy who I had a friendly wager on the El Tri-USMNT game in Columbus that involved the loser having to wear the winning teams jersey at an all week convention for our company in Houston in November, called me this morning to say he was going to be wearing the whole kit and might do it all of that week.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 16, 2013, 04:26:19 PM
that guy is straight up going to be murdered

I believe it was Andres Cantor.  He's basically the Howard Cosell of Mexican Announcers, so I wouldnt count on it.  Well, mixed with a healthy dose of Gus Johnson, cause it is Mexico after all.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 16, 2013, 08:41:00 PM
I wanted Mexico to get knocked out, but considering the outrage, it's all worth it to have them advance ONLY because we gifted it to them. If you haven't seen it, here's the interpretation. Hilarious.

"GOOOOAAAAAAL The US of A PUTS us in the playoffs!!!!!" USA!
"It is because of the USA that we are being placed in the playoff ...BECAUSE OF THEM , NOT DUE TO YOU..NOT ANY OF YOU in the green shirts ....IT WAS THEM!!.NOT YOU!..THEY DID IT!!!!!NOT YOU! remember this forever..... KEEP THIS CLEARLY IN MIND FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIVES! You do NOTHING for the shirt, you do NOT put the effort, you have NOTplaced us in the playoffs , you HAVE NOT placed us in the WORLD CUP ..YOU WOULD NOT HAVE KEPT US ALIVE....IT WAS ESTADOS UNIDOS, NOT YOU.! .NOT YOU AND YOUR ARROGANCE/CONCEIT.....NOT YOU AND YOUR INFAMY....NOT YOU AND YOUR MORONS/PUNKS....
....
"IT IS A FAILURE.....and UNDESERVED -to go through to the playoff- WE HAD NO ARGUMENTS to earn the playoffs, THE USA, WITH SUBS , WITH MANY SUBS as the visiting team shows us once again what the USA is all about ....how to play the game with dignity, how to approach the sport..MExico is a horror, just terrible....A FAILURE....
......
THE USA HAS SURPASSED US ..They are better than Mexico in SOCCER ....THEY EVEN HAVE THE LUXURY OF PLAYING THEIR SUBS and KEEPING US LIVE.... I hope our coach wears the pants and resigns..He has failed as coach...."


Can we call it even in exchange for border security?  We got you into the cup, so uhm, enjoy the experience at home?   :P
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 17, 2013, 07:00:46 AM
What would be even funnier is if Mexico lost their home-and-home playoff with New Zealand. Right now El Tri can't take anything for granted. We gave them the opportunity, but they still have one step to go. We can't win that one for them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 17, 2013, 07:15:11 AM
Can we call it even in exchange for border security?  We got you into the cup, so uhm, enjoy the experience at home?   :P



 ::)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 27, 2013, 06:41:05 PM
As a Chicago Fire season ticket holder, that was brutal. I feel like Klopas is done here. Or should be. We need more depth along the backline. I like the forwards and mids we have. Plus Sean Johnson in goal is a no brainer.

Mike Magee wins the Golden Boot, which is nice. He turned the season around for us. Definitely in the running for MVP, but I think without a playoff birth, he won't win.

Disappointing end, but we only have ourselves to blame. Let's get things together in the offseason.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on November 19, 2013, 04:05:14 PM
So assuming Mexico and Uruguay wrap up their inter-federation playoffs by holding on to their sizable leads, of the 32 countries represented in the WC next year, 24 were in the 2010 tournament.  Four countries (Croatia, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Iran) were last represented in 2006.  Two in 2002 (Belgium, Russia).  One in 1998 (Colombia).  And one is debuting (Bosnia).

I mean, after 150+ qualifying games in Africa, the same five teams qualified.  (South Africa as the 2010 host did not.)

Compare this to 2010, where only 18 of the countries repeated from 2006.  Four of the countries had to go back to the 1960s or 1980s to find their last appearance.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 24, 2013, 01:18:52 AM
So this is kind of terrifying...

http://ultra-zone.net/2014-FIFA-World-Cup-Group-Stage-Draws

It's a World Cup draw simulator. With the USA being pretty clearly the strongest team in Pot B (the weakest pot) it all but assures us of being in the Group of Death. Here are the pots:

Pot 1: Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Uruguay, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Switzerland
Pot 2: Japan, Iran, South Korea, Australia, USA, Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras
Pot 3: Chile, Ecuador, Ivory Coast, Ghana, Algeria, Nigeria, Cameroon, France
Pot 4: Netherlands, Italy, England, Portugal, Greece, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Russia

I think our best case scenario is Switzerland, USA, Algeria, Greece. I'd feel very good about our odds of winning that group. The worst case scenario would probably be Brazil, USA, Ghana, Netherlands. Not sure FIFA would let that happen to the hosts as it wouldn't even assure them of escaping.

Without a doubt, Switzerland seems to be the weakest seeded team. You can get lucky in the other pots, but being in the second pot really hurts. It's too bad Mexico qualified. Had they lost, it's possible we'd have been potted with the African teams, which would have been much better for us and made more sense as New Zealand would have been a good fit with the Asian teams. Oh well...not likely to be an easy group. Still can't wait for December 6.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on November 24, 2013, 08:09:06 AM
I'm not sure how you could have the Netherlands and Italy unranked...but Colombia and Switzerland ranked.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 24, 2013, 11:50:58 AM
I'm not sure how you could have the Netherlands and Italy unranked...but Colombia and Switzerland ranked.

Colombia is very good. They've been one of the top teams in CONMEBOL. Swiss over Dutch is a surprise, but that's the FIFA system for you.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on December 06, 2013, 06:54:49 AM
World Cup draw today. Think I'm going to find a reason to stop into Highbury to watch around 10 am.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 06, 2013, 08:44:47 AM
World Cup draw today. Think I'm going to find a reason to stop into Highbury to watch around 10 am.

And i'm not feeling good about any of our possibilities...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on December 06, 2013, 09:04:58 AM
And i'm not feeling good about any of our possibilities...


If they get drawn into a group with say Brazil and Italy, it will at least lower expectations.  They might actually play better if they can be more loose.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 06, 2013, 11:20:34 AM
motherunnatural carnal knowledgeer.

arguably, the hardest group EVER.

australia has a better chance to advance
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on December 06, 2013, 11:27:23 AM
motherunnatural carnal knowledgeer.

arguably, the hardest group EVER.

australia has a better chance to advance


Australia has a better chance in a group with both Spain and the Netherlands?

US has gotta hope to beat Ghana...draw with Portugal...and have Germany win out scoring a sh*t ton of goals against Portugal in the process.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 06, 2013, 11:36:11 AM
Meanwhile France sneaks into the softest group by a mile.

US also has the toughest travel schedule of any team in the tournament, over 9000 miles in the group stage.  The fact that FIFA is the most corrupt organization in sports makes this harder to take as well.

This BLOWS.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 06, 2013, 11:39:19 AM
Meanwhile France sneaks into the softest group by a mile.

US also has the toughest travel schedule of any team in the tournament, over 9000 miles in the group stage.  The fact that FIFA is the most corrupt organization in sports makes this harder to take as well.

This BLOWS.

I think Italy has the same travel schedule.

US HAS to beat Ghana. Then draw Portugal. Hope for the best against Germany. Slight sliver of hope that Germany will have qualified before our match and not need any points.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on December 06, 2013, 11:39:37 AM
As a friend of mine said, "I cannot think of any team the US would be more motivated to beat than Ghana."

Get three points against Ghana and anything can happen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on December 06, 2013, 11:39:56 AM
As for soft, look at Group C...Colombia, Greece, Ivory Coast, Japan.

Another difficult one is D...Uruguay, England, Italy, Costa Rica
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on December 06, 2013, 11:40:40 AM
I think Italy has the same travel schedule.

US HAS to beat Ghana. Then draw Portugal. Hope for the best against Germany. Slight sliver of hope that Germany will have qualified before our match and not need any points.


I think US plays Germany second.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 06, 2013, 11:41:06 AM
I'd like to congratulate France on making it through to the Round of 16.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 06, 2013, 11:42:42 AM

I think US plays Germany second.

#USMNT schedule: June 16 vs Ghana, 6pm ET. June 22 vs Portugal, 3pm ET. June 26 vs Germany, 12pm ET

Also: http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1639248/spi-world-cup-group-stage-projections?cc=5901

US with a 39.4% chance to advance
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on December 06, 2013, 11:45:17 AM
#USMNT schedule: June 16 vs Ghana, 6pm ET. June 22 vs Portugal, 3pm ET. June 26 vs Germany, 12pm ET

Wikipedia was wrong!!???!!!


June 16 is a Monday...but in the evening.
June 22 is a Sunday
June 26 is a Thursday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: melissasmooth on December 06, 2013, 11:51:01 AM
Oh well, there goes any shot of the US doing well.  I was looking forward to the World Cup, not so much anymore. Fourth place in the group. Bye Jurgen.

But they get 8,866 flier miles and get to visit the worst part of Brazil.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on December 06, 2013, 12:40:14 PM
Actually, this may play out well for us. The more I consider this group the more I like it:

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on December 06, 2013, 12:41:22 PM
I think Italy has the same travel schedule.

US HAS to beat Ghana. Then draw Portugal. Hope for the best against Germany. Slight sliver of hope that Germany will have qualified before our match and not need any points.

If we get 4 points out of the first two, we are through. Unless the Germans screw up before they see us.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on December 06, 2013, 12:52:55 PM
The travel for the games doesn't seem all that bad given all of the time between games.  Certainly much less problematic than the distances required for qualifiers.

The first game is in Natal...on the coast.  The second game is about 1,720 miles as the crow flies in Manaus.  The third is right back on the coast about the same distance away in Recife.

That's about like flying from Boston to Denver and back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: melissasmooth on December 06, 2013, 01:01:46 PM
Actually, this may play out well for us. The more I consider this group the more I like it:

  • Ghana: At some point we have to beat them. They've been our nemesis, but we've played them even both matches. I'd love to see us get a lead just so we learn whether or not Ghana can play a football match when their players aren't rolling around on the floor time-wasting. By no means unwinnable.
  • Portugal: Yes, it's Ronaldo, but that's about it. Portugal isn't a deep team whatsoever. Good defense but suspect keeper. I think we can get a draw.
  • Germany: We play them third. I can't stress how important that is. We play them third. Most likely, the Germans will be sitting on 6 points. As long as we get at least a point out of our first two games, the Germans will be assured advancing, which means Loew will probably go with reserves, giving us a good chance to win. If we can get 4 points out of the first two and the Germans take 6, both sides will know that a bore draw will get them through, and with Klinsy being Loew's old boss, I have little doubt we'd get what would probably be a sad display of football but a satisfying result for both sides.

taking a second look, being in with spain, netherlands and chile would be tougher
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on December 06, 2013, 01:05:48 PM
My group stage predictions:

Group A: 1st Brazil, 2nd Mexico

Brazil rolls the group, while Croatia and Mexico comes down to the final game. The Mexicans actually show up and escape a tight game with Croatia to advance.

Group B: 1st Spain, 2nd Chile

The Dutch start to realize they are in trouble after losing to Spain in the opener while Chile dispatches the Aussies in style. Spain and Chile draw the second game, allowing the South American team to grind the Dutch to a draw to advance. Aussies take it in the backside.

Group C: 1st Colombia, 2nd Japan

The Colombians win a balanced if not spectacular group, while Shinji Kagawa has a breakout tournament in navigating Japan to the Round of 16.

Group D: 1st Italy, 2nd Uruguay

What could be a spectacular match is rendered meaningless when Italy enters the final day on 6 points and Uruguay on 4. England destroys the Ticos, but it's not enough as a bore draw allows the leaders to advance.

Group E: 1st Honduras, 2nd Switzerland

The shock group. Honduras shocks the French on day 1 and manages to draw their next two games. The Swiss also beat the French and get a pair of draws, with Honduras edging them on goal differential.

Group F: 1st Argentina, 2nd Bosnia-Herzegovina

Group goes according to form. Looks very straight-forward.

Group G: 1st Germany, 2nd USA

Germans roll the first two, while Klinsmann does what Bruce and Bob could not in beating Ghana. The USA get a hard-fought draw with Portugal, meaning the Loew/Klinsy final group match ends in a bore goalless draw that sees both sides through.

Group H: 1st Russia, 2nd Belgium

The Russians shock the highly-rated Belgians in the second match, but both Euro sides have enough to get out of a fairly tame group. South Korea makes it close against both Euro sides, but comes up short on both accounts.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on December 06, 2013, 01:23:05 PM
Round of 16

Brazil beats Chile
Uruguay beats Colombia
Bosnia-Herzegovina beats Honduras
Germany beats Belgium

Spain beats Mexico
Italy beats Japan
Argentina beats Switzerland
USA beats Russia

The hosts roll, while the experienced, name-brand countries advance at the expense of upstarts like Colombia, Belgium, Japan, and the Swiss. USA has an easier time with Russia than they did with either Ghana or Portugal.

Quarterfinals

Brazil beats Uruguay
Germany beats Bosnia-Herzegovina

Spain beats Italy
Argentina beats USA

Brazil gets revenge for 1950 while both Germany and Spain advance in style. The USA goes from facing the world's second-best player in Ronaldo in the groups to facing the best in Messi in the Quarters. USA gives better than most expect, but drop the result in the end, matching their result from 2002.

Semifinals

Brazil beats Germany
Argentina beats Spain

Brazil makes their first final since making three straight from 1994-2002 while the Argies ride the back of Leo Messi to their first final in 24 years.

Finals

Brazil beats Argentina
Germany beats Spain (3rd place game)

The host Brazilians take home their sixth World Cup title while the Germans get a small measure of revenge for narrow defeats in the Euro 2008 final and the World Cup 2010 semifinal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 06, 2013, 04:54:12 PM
Not even close to hardest group ever. US is positioned well. Opponents they are familiar with and have motivation to perform well against. As for travel, humbug. Half of this team is going to be MLS players who deal with lengthy travel their entire season and the other half will have virtually no travel being taken place last third of their club seasons. No effect.

Germany on 9
US on 4
Portugal on 2
Ghana on 1

July 1st against Belgium.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 06, 2013, 05:32:59 PM
Not even close to hardest group ever. US is positioned well. Opponents they are familiar with and have motivation to perform well against. As for travel, humbug. Half of this team is going to be MLS players who deal with lengthy travel their entire season and the other half will have virtually no travel being taken place last third of their club seasons. No effect.

Germany on 9
US on 4
Portugal on 2
Ghana on 1

July 1st against Belgium.



average FIFA ranking of 11.25? yea, i'd say that's pretty difficult. you might find a more difficult group at some time in the past, but i bet that's up there for sure.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on December 06, 2013, 11:56:55 PM
taking a second look, being in with spain, netherlands and chile would be tougher

Except that they play Australia. I wouldn't call this the toughest group ever, but it's the only group in this World Cup that doesn't have a clear weak-sister team. I'd say G is toughest, followed by B.

Of course, the English media is convinced their group is the toughest, though any draw they get would instantly be billed either the easiest or hardest due to their overwhelming obsession with hyperbole.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 07, 2013, 09:52:36 AM
average FIFA ranking of 11.25? yea, i'd say that's pretty difficult. you might find a more difficult group at some time in the past, but i bet that's up there for sure.

Dial down the hyperbole.

The gulf between a difficult group and the "hardest group ever" is pretty wide. Trumpeting the latter only shows shortsightedness, especially if using the notoriously unreliable and always laughed at FIFA rankings as evidence.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 07, 2013, 10:29:13 AM
Dial down the hyperbole.

The gulf between a difficult group and the "hardest group ever" is pretty wide. Trumpeting the latter only shows shortsightedness, especially if using the notoriously unreliable and always laughed at FIFA rankings as evidence.

So, top to bottom, can you think of a tougher group?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 08, 2013, 02:15:06 PM
So, top to bottom, can you think of a tougher group?

You've climbed down from the "hardest group ever" exaggeration, right?

Tougher group? You'll get that in Group B.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 08, 2013, 02:18:46 PM
You've climbed down from the "hardest group ever" exaggeration, right?

Tougher group? You'll get that in Group B.

Nope. Australia. Try again.

also, i originally said "arguably the hardest group ever." which it 100% is. probably should look at the whole sentence i wrote and not just part of it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on December 08, 2013, 02:21:34 PM
You've climbed down from the "hardest group ever" exaggeration, right?

Tougher group? You'll get that in Group B.

Aussies are likely to tally zero points. Every other group has one walk-over type team. Group G is definitely the toughest top-to-bottom group. Germany is a legit threat to win, Portugal has one of the two best players in the world (and arguably all-time), and the two other teams both advanced in the last WC and are ranked in the top-25. I don't like the FIFA rankings, but if anything, they underrate teams from outside Europe and South America. Ghana is certainly nobody's whipping boy, and we aren't a slouch either.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on December 08, 2013, 02:44:47 PM
motherunnatural carnal knowledgeer.

arguably, the hardest group EVER.

australia has a better chance to advance

Hardly the hardest group ever. 1982 world cup had a group with defending champion Argentina, the eventful champion Italy, and Brazil. That might be the toughest group of all time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 08, 2013, 02:45:49 PM
Hardly the hardest group ever. 1982 world cup had a group with defending champion Argentina, the eventful champion Italy, and Brazil. That might be the toughest group of all time.

You're going to reference the '82 cup with it's extremely odd format? oh. ok. when looking at the 4 team groups, those teams weren't together.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 08, 2013, 02:47:47 PM
Nope. Australia. Try again.

also, i originally said "arguably the hardest group ever." which it 100% is. probably should look at the whole sentence i wrote and not just part of it.

What's wrong with Australia? At the last Cup, against the big bad bears of Germany and Ghana along with Serbia in their group, they tallied four points and missed out on advancing by goal differential. Australia would have advanced out of three groups with that point total. Surely, if the Socceroos are so terrible and yet took four points the USA won't break a sweat.

Hardest group ever shows the blinders. Overrating US to get there. Ghana has been to two World Cups. Portugal has been to five. This isn't exactly the "A" squad of illustrious national teams. People are biased by the fact that Ghana beat the US in 2006 and 2010 and by Ronaldo. Neither Ghana nor Portugal are considered a threat at anything deep in this Cup.

In fact, this group has Germany as a legitimate threat and when you can write that only one country is top tier it seems silly to even discuss it as daunting to overcome. Even sillier to think it's in the discussion of hardest groups ever.


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on December 08, 2013, 02:48:14 PM
It is finals week. Brain fizzled out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 08, 2013, 02:53:09 PM
What's wrong with Australia? At the last Cup, against the big bad bears of Germany and Ghana along with Serbia in their group, they tallied four points and missed out on advancing by goal differential. Australia would have advanced out of three groups with that point total. Surely, if the Socceroos are so terrible and yet took four points the USA won't break a sweat.

Hardest group ever shows the blinders. Overrating US to get there. Ghana has been to two World Cups. Portugal has been to five. This isn't exactly the "A" squad of illustrious national teams. People are biased by the fact that Ghana beat the US in 2006 and 2010 and by Ronaldo. Neither Ghana nor Portugal are considered a threat at anything deep in this Cup.

In fact, this group only has Germany as a legitimate threat and when you can write that only one country is top tier it seems silly to even discuss it as daunting to overcome. Even sillier to think it's in the discussion of hardest groups ever.

What's wrong with Ghana? In the last two cups they've advanced out of the group stage.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 08, 2013, 02:57:26 PM
What's wrong with Ghana? In the last two cups they've advanced out of the group stage.

And......
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 08, 2013, 03:00:44 PM
And......

Every team in Group G is far and away better than Australia. Look at the stats. FIFA rankings show it. G is VERY MUCH tougher top-to-bottom better than B. And, again, arguably the hardest group ever. You still haven't shown me a more difficult group.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 08, 2013, 03:30:11 PM
Every team in Group G is far and away better than Australia. Look at the stats. FIFA rankings show it. G is VERY MUCH tougher top-to-bottom better than B. And, again, arguably the hardest group ever. You still haven't shown me a more difficult group.

Group B has the best team in the world and a Finalist from the 2010 Cup. Chile did well in qualification and some feel they could surprise and advance. And, Australia (which finished level on points with Ghana in South Africa). You don't feel it's anything special. That's fine. I think it's a harder group then one in which there's only one top tier country. I'll go on believing the US is in a regularly tough group and you can go on believing it's one of the hardest groups in the history of the tournament.

By the way, since you're a pretty fierce believer of the FIFA rankings, surely you felt the United States really was the fourth best country in the world going into Germany 2006.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 08, 2013, 03:35:50 PM
By the way, since you're a pretty fierce believer of the FIFA rankings, surely you felt the United States really was the fourth best country in the world going into Germany 2006.

According to the algorithm they use, absolutely.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on December 08, 2013, 05:34:13 PM
You guys can keep arguing about which Group is tougher. It doesn't matter. Both are extremely challenging. And the USA will enjoy a nice first round exit when they fail to score a single point.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 08, 2013, 09:38:54 PM
You guys can keep arguing about which Group is tougher. It doesn't matter. Both are extremely challenging. And the USA will enjoy a nice first round exit when they fail to score a single point.

 ::)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on December 08, 2013, 09:49:43 PM
You guys can keep arguing about which Group is tougher. It doesn't matter. Both are extremely challenging. And the USA will enjoy a nice first round exit when they fail to score a single point.

So predictable. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/mourou/emoticons/wanker.gif)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 08, 2013, 10:57:33 PM
You guys can keep arguing about which Group is tougher. It doesn't matter. Both are extremely challenging. And the USA will enjoy a nice first round exit when they fail to score a single point.

Just curious.. where are you from? which national team do you support?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on December 08, 2013, 11:55:20 PM
So predictable. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/mourou/emoticons/wanker.gif)

+1
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on December 09, 2013, 11:37:00 PM
So predictable. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/mourou/emoticons/wanker.gif)

+1
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on December 09, 2013, 11:46:11 PM
Just curious.. where are you from? which national team do you support?

Portugal, Germany, and Ghana.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 09, 2013, 11:53:32 PM
As for soft, look at Group C...Colombia, Greece, Ivory Coast, Japan.

Another difficult one is D...Uruguay, England, Italy, Costa Rica

Youre joking right? Group C soft? Colombia can make it to the semis with a good draw. Ivory Coast is loaded with talent, Drogba, Kalou and Toure. Japan is on the rise and Greece doesnt let in goals.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 09, 2013, 11:57:29 PM
Portugal, Germany, and Ghana.

Why can't you just answer the question?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 10, 2013, 12:18:02 AM
On a side note I just applied for tickets to the Colombia vs. Ivory Coast match to see me two favorite teams in the world play. Wish me luck.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 10, 2013, 09:05:48 AM
According to the algorithm they use, absolutely.

Not even the most ardent USA supporter would claim that unless they're just being obstinate. Hell, even some of the players admitted so after the 2006 Cup. Your non-answer answer speaks loudly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on December 10, 2013, 09:30:44 AM
Portugal, Germany, and Ghana.

It's Poland, right?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on December 10, 2013, 09:44:33 AM
Youre joking right? Group C soft? Colombia can make it to the semis with a good draw. Ivory Coast is loaded with talent, Drogba, Kalou and Toure. Japan is on the rise and Greece doesnt let in goals.


Until one of these teams actually accomplishes something on an international stage, I don't care about their potential.  At some point they have to perform.  And yes I realize that Greece won Euro about a decade ago.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on December 10, 2013, 09:47:47 AM
According to the algorithm they use, absolutely.


Circular response.

"I think FIFA rankings are accurate"
"So you believe that US was #4 in 2006?"
"Yes because that's what the FIFA rankings said"

Any ranking that seeds Switzerland but not the Netherlands or Italy has issues. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 10, 2013, 12:46:23 PM
Well how about this for a bold prediction then. Colombia will make it all the way to the final before falling to Germany.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on December 10, 2013, 01:00:50 PM
Well how about this for a bold prediction then. Colombia will make it all the way to the final before falling to Germany.


Assuming they both win their group, they would have to beat Brazil to do that. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 10, 2013, 01:26:12 PM

Assuming they both win their group, they would have to beat Brazil to do that. 

Yes Brazil is good but I dont think theyre as good as people give them credit for. Besides that the major reason I dont think Brazil will do as well is because they didnt have to go through the gauntles that was the South American qualifying. All of these others teams are battle tested and know how to deal with the pressure while Brazil just watched from the sideline.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on December 10, 2013, 01:42:20 PM
Yes Brazil is good but I dont think theyre as good as people give them credit for. Besides that the major reason I dont think Brazil will do as well is because they didnt have to go through the gauntles that was the South American qualifying. All of these others teams are battle tested and know how to deal with the pressure while Brazil just watched from the sideline.


They won the Confederations Cup by beating Italy, Spain and Uruguay in the process.  Not saying they are unbeatable, but they have had a number of opportunities to show how they can play.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: setyoursightsnorth on December 10, 2013, 10:04:49 PM
It's Poland, right?

Indeed it is!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 12, 2013, 05:04:31 PM
I remember certain people who expressed doubt over Klinsmann's acumen little less than a year ago. Anyone quibble with his contract being extended until 2018?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: chren21 on December 12, 2013, 06:46:33 PM
I remember certain people who expressed doubt over Klinsmann's acumen little less than a year ago. Anyone quibble with his contract being extended until 2018?

It's a great move.  Just wish he could replace Saul.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 11, 2014, 01:44:47 PM
Giving this thread a bump just because the World Cup starts pretty soon. My new Colombia jersey just came in the mail so I am ready.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on April 11, 2014, 09:23:11 PM
Just got my tix to the Nigeria friendly in Jacksonville. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on April 16, 2014, 10:00:30 AM
Recommended viewing ESPN's 30 by 30 on the Hillsborough tragedy (96 dead in 1989). Incredible local government coverup/spinning of the event

http://espn.go.com/30for30/film?page=hillsborough
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 30, 2014, 01:18:47 PM
Go Blues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSc-v9U9m_M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSc-v9U9m_M)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on April 30, 2014, 03:17:09 PM
Go Blues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSc-v9U9m_M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSc-v9U9m_M)

Gross.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on April 30, 2014, 03:40:21 PM
Gross.

Fittingly, by trotting out six defenders the blue scum got all they deserved today.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 30, 2014, 03:48:49 PM
Oh well. Still made it further then any other English team. Cant stand Atletico, cheering for Real. Just a little over a year until my move to London  ;D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on April 30, 2014, 03:52:57 PM
Oh well. Still made it further then any other English team. Cant stand Atletico, cheering for Real. Just a little over a year until my move to London  ;D


Oh come on.  Atletico is one of the good stories in soccer this season.  Any team that can break up the La Liga dominance of Real and Barca is one I will root for.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 30, 2014, 03:57:31 PM

Oh come on.  Atletico is one of the good stories in soccer this season.  Any team that can break up the La Liga dominance of Real and Barca is one I will root for.

Only liked them when Falcao was on the team. Since then, Ill stick to Barca for my Spanish team of choice.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on April 30, 2014, 04:27:54 PM
Since then, Ill stick to Barca for my Spanish team of choice.

Chelsea fan a total front-runner? Never!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 30, 2014, 04:35:17 PM
Chelsea fan a total front-runner? Never!

Actually, the reason im a Chelsea fan is kinda odd. I strated becomming interested in soccer for the 2006 world cup. I was in 7th grade then and I had to do a report on an african country. It just happened to be the Ivory Coast. Drogba became my favorite player and Chelsea my favorite team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on April 30, 2014, 07:16:36 PM
A derby for the Champions League final will be special,  especially with Ronaldo playing in his home country.

Also,  if he tears his ACL and can't play in the WC,  I won't be crying.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 30, 2014, 09:02:33 PM
On the Futbol talk, is MLS adding another team in New York City?  They've been advertising season tickets for 2015 for FC New York with games to be played at Yankee Stadium.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 30, 2014, 09:59:55 PM
On the Futbol talk, is MLS adding another team in New York City?  They've been advertising season tickets for 2015 for FC New York with games to be played at Yankee Stadium.

Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_FC

MLS is quickly expanding in the coming years. 2nd team in NYC, Orlando, Atlanta, Miami. Presumably 4-5 will follow after that.

Also, the MLS is going to create a "minor" league system. Every MLS team will be required to partner with a USL team so that there will be established farm/youth systems rather than reserve squads that barely see any game-time.

Many Chicago Fire people pushing for their youth team to be in Milwaukee. http://onthefire.com/2014/04/29/milwaukee-chicago-connection-only-makes-sense-for-chicago-fires-usl-pro-partnership/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 01, 2014, 07:06:17 AM
Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_FC

MLS is quickly expanding in the coming years. 2nd team in NYC, Orlando, Atlanta, Miami. Presumably 4-5 will follow after that.

Also, the MLS is going to create a "minor" league system. Every MLS team will be required to partner with a USL team so that there will be established farm/youth systems rather than reserve squads that barely see any game-time.

Many Chicago Fire people pushing for their youth team to be in Milwaukee. http://onthefire.com/2014/04/29/milwaukee-chicago-connection-only-makes-sense-for-chicago-fires-usl-pro-partnership/

Cool!  The radio ads mention Claudia Reyna's name associated with the team.  The Red Bulls are actually in Harrison, New Jersey across the river from Newark and not easy to access with public transportation and not the most conveinent drive from Connecticut.  Man City & the Yankees own the team, interesting.  So with 4-5 teams to follow there's still hope for Hartford.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 02, 2014, 10:35:11 PM
HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/wp/2014/05/02/arsenals-zelalem-nearing-u-s-eligibility/

Project Klinsy2018 is a full go. Quick question - Who's a better recruiter: Klinsy or Calipari?

Also, we could have a 2018 front six of: Zelalem, Julian Green, Aron Johannson, Jozy Alitdore, Darlington Nagbe, Michael Bradley. Would easily be the best in USMNT history.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 05, 2014, 09:23:52 AM
HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/wp/2014/05/02/arsenals-zelalem-nearing-u-s-eligibility/

Project Klinsy2018 is a full go. Quick question - Who's a better recruiter: Klinsy or Calipari?

Also, we could have a 2018 front six of: Zelalem, Julian Green, Aron Johannson, Jozy Alitdore, Darlington Nagbe, Michael Bradley. Would easily be the best in USMNT history.

The optimism is encouraging but as an Arsenal fan for nearly 15 years I've seen a lot of "prized" talents in the academy rot away with lack of first team appearances (or failing once in the first team). That, or they wait too long trying to get in at Arsenal they leave late and their career never takes off (e.g. Fran Merida).

I've watched a few youth matches and Gedion does remind of Cesc but so much has to happen, in his control and out of his control, for him to even be a remote possibility. Remember two years ago when Chandler was the first dual national the US recruited? Now he may not even make the 30 man provisional roster which goes to show you can't project four months into the future much less four years. It's a long, long, long road.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 05, 2014, 10:10:09 AM
Remember two years ago when Chandler was the first dual national the US recruited? Now he may not even make the 30 man provisional roster which goes to show you can't project four months into the future much less four years. It's a long, long, long road.

I don't disagree with you, especially since Zelalem and Green are both so young, but I would differ on 2 key points, especially when comparing to Chandler. 

1) Timothy Chandler was never looked at by the German national team.  Even Jermaine Jones and Fabian Johnson, though neither would have made final squads, got looks at the U21 level and such.  Chandler is a decent player, but the US was his only chance for international football.  Zelalem and Green definitely were looked at with promise by Low and crew.

2) Unlike the aforementioned Germans, Zelalem lived in the US for alot of formative years, makes him less of a soccer mercenary, and it bodes well for his development in the US program, if this indeed goes through.

But your concerns about his Arsenal development are valid.  Lets hope he gets out on loan.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 05, 2014, 11:23:06 AM
I don't disagree with you, especially since Zelalem and Green are both so young, but I would differ on 2 key points, especially when comparing to Chandler. 

1) Timothy Chandler was never looked at by the German national team.  Even Jermaine Jones and Fabian Johnson, though neither would have made final squads, got looks at the U21 level and such.  Chandler is a decent player, but the US was his only chance for international football.  Zelalem and Green definitely were looked at with promise by Low and crew.

2) Unlike the aforementioned Germans, Zelalem lived in the US for alot of formative years, makes him less of a soccer mercenary, and it bodes well for his development in the US program, if this indeed goes through.

But your concerns about his Arsenal development are valid.  Lets hope he gets out on loan.

It is true Chandler was never a legit option for the Germans though I do think he represented them on the youth level at some point. I agree that the US was his only bet and he held on as long as he could with the prayer of being involved with Germany. That said, I provided some confusion as I didn't intend to equate the talent of Chandler to Green, Zelalem, etc. It was more a point of how inflated the expectations get surrounding players of this variety and how counting on them for an entire next World Cup cycle is unwise as they may not even be a possibility next year.

If Gedion does represent the US his four or five years here allows for him to truly be that "breakthrough" player the soccer world has been looking for in these past two decades. But, again, so much will have to happen and as we've seen with Jack Wilshere, who is bizarrely now seen as a ho-hum player who hasn't progressed well, oftentimes the inflated expectations lead to equally ludicrous inflated criticism.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 05, 2014, 03:31:32 PM
Re: Arsenal Development...

Klinns has been VERY hands-on with the guys he wants/needs getting development/playing time. Why do you think Dempsey/Bradley came back the MLS? I think he greases a lot of wheels for transfers or loans. He's also very adamant about guys getting playing time and I think they take it to heart.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 05, 2014, 04:15:09 PM
Alright guys here are my WC predictions. I wanted to wait to take injuries into account. Just a little note, im basing my Colombia predictions based on the fact that Falcao will play. Many reports are saying he is way ahead of schedule.

Group A: Brazil: Home turf, great team weak group. Not much doubt here.
             Mexico: Got lucky with the draw think they can turn it around.

Group B: Spain: Defending champs, could run into some problem with the Dutch and Chile but believe they pull it out.
             Chile: In the big shocker of the opening round Chile takes advantage of the cup being in South America and take out the Dutch .

Group C: Colombia: A ton of talent up front and Ospina is an underrated keeper. Big question mark is their back 4.
             Ivory Coast: Finally the year they put it all together with Yaya Toure leading the charge this time around.

Group D: Uruguay: Started putting it together at the end of qualifying, being in Brazil helps them
             England: Finally have a keeper they can trust, amoung the better ones in the world.

Group E: France: Beat out the rest of a terribly weak group, this group seems to be the most wide open.
            Switzerland: Again, tough call here but think they have just enough talent to get though.

Group F: Argentina: Argentina absolutely rolls through this incredibly weak group. Kind of a joke really.
            Nigeria: By default they beat out very weak Bosnia and Iran teams to advance.

Group G: Germany: Most talented team in the tourney, tough group but should win off their talent alone.
             USA: Lose to the Germans tie with Ghana but surprise Portugal. Manage to scrape their way through.

Group H: Belgium: Another really talented team. Dont get a lot of the respect they deserve.
             South Korea: Always a solid team that surprises people. No surprise this year as they are probably the 2nd most talented team in the group

Knock out Stage:
R16

Brazil vs. Chile: Chiles run ends with running into the gauntlet that is Brazil. Brazil still not really tested so far
Colombia vs. England: Colombia takes it with their talent up front. Does enough to beat the three lions.
Spain vs. Mexico: Spain rolls as they take out Mexico.
Uruguay vs. Ivory Coast: Ivory Coast continues their magical run in Drogbas last world cup. He finally has the pieces around him.
France vs. Nigeria: France continues with their luck of the draw beating Nigeria.
Germany vs. South Korea: Germany too much for the South Korean squad.
Argentia vs. Switzerland: Messi too much for the Swiss defense to handle
Belgium vs. US: US again bows out in the first round of the knockout stage to a talented Belgium team.

R8
Brazil vs. Colombia: Brazil too much for the fiesty Colombians to handle.
France vs. Germany: France finally runs into some competition and falls to Germany.
Argentina vs. Belgium: Argentia falls to Hazard and Belgium.
Ivory Coast vs. Spain: Ivory Coast finally goes down as the last African team in the world cup.

R4:
Brazil vs. Germany: Germany beats the host nation.
Belgium vs. Spain: Belgium beats the defending champs

Final:
Germany vs. Belgium: In the battle of Europe the talented Germans triumph.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 06, 2014, 08:51:11 AM
Re: Arsenal Development...

Klinns has been VERY hands-on with the guys he wants/needs getting development/playing time. Why do you think Dempsey/Bradley came back the MLS? I think he greases a lot of wheels for transfers or loans. He's also very adamant about guys getting playing time and I think they take it to heart.

Fair that JK likes to be involved with his players but we're talking different levels here with Dempsey/Bradley and Zelalem. Dempsey took a golden parachute to the MLS. Still disappointed in Bradley for giving up the way he did at the end in Rome but money talks no matter your profession.

I can't imagine you think Gedion is to join MLS. Right? He's at a club that puts a premium on youth talent playing in the senior squad. I'm not sure what JK could do that AW isn't already planning to do in terms of Zelalem's development. As much as AW has talked positively about JK in the past I doubt a man of his stature is going to place Gedion where JK wants him to be placed. Zelalem has intermittent appearances written all over him the next two seasons.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 06, 2014, 09:31:17 AM
Fair that JK likes to be involved with his players but we're talking different levels here with Dempsey/Bradley and Zelalem. Dempsey took a golden parachute to the MLS. Still disappointed in Bradley for giving up the way he did at the end in Rome but money talks no matter your profession.

I can't imagine you think Gedion is to join MLS. Right? He's at a club that puts a premium on youth talent playing in the senior squad. I'm not sure what JK could do that AW isn't already planning to do in terms of Zelalem's development. As much as AW has talked positively about JK in the past I doubt a man of his stature is going to place Gedion where JK wants him to be placed. Zelalem has intermittent appearances written all over him the next two seasons.

And to be fair, I was going to comment about how hands on JK is, but then I thought about the fact that, in spite of greater playing time, JK was not pleased to see Dempsey and Bradley come back to the MLS, he wanted them playing against top talent in Europe still.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 06, 2014, 12:29:32 PM
Someone was wearing the US jersey for this years World Cup and it looks even worse in person. Glad I splurged on my Colombia jersey, totally worth it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on May 06, 2014, 02:09:13 PM
Two general questions, as NYWarrior and I were discussing the USMNT and the World Cup.

1. Do you think USMNT advances out of the group stage?
2. How many points do you think they earn?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 06, 2014, 02:13:26 PM
Two general questions, as NYWarrior and I were discussing the USMNT and the World Cup.

1. Do you think USMNT advances out of the group stage?
2. How many points do you think they earn?

Yes with 4. Beat Portugal and tie with Ghana. Portugal beats Ghana but lost to the Germans to only take 3 points.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on May 06, 2014, 02:16:51 PM
Yes with 4. Beat Portugal and tie with Ghana. Portugal beats Ghana but lost to the Germans to only take 3 points.


So Ghana loses to Germany and the US wins the tie-breaker?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 06, 2014, 02:22:29 PM

So Ghana loses to Germany and the US wins the tie-breaker?

Ghanas only point comes against the US. No tiebreaker necessary in this scenario.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on May 06, 2014, 02:25:12 PM
Ghanas only point comes against the US. No tiebreaker necessary in this scenario.

Yeah I read it wrong.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: NYWarrior on May 06, 2014, 02:43:27 PM
The USMNT v Ghana is a great first-round match-up ... a winnable game for the US, no doubt about it though the Ghanaians are at least as talented if not more so.

And after four years of purgatory, Gyan will have a shot at redemption in this tournament ... he's scoring a ton on the Arabian peninsula, but he'd likely give those back for better fortune on this PK in 2010 (great theater in the best game of that tourney)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBDK-HEbIZs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBDK-HEbIZs)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 06, 2014, 02:52:48 PM
The USMNT v Ghana is a great first-round match-up ... a winnable game for the US, no doubt about it though the Ghanaians are at least as talented if not more so.

And after four years of purgatory, Gyan will have a shot at redemption in this tournament ... he's scoring a ton on the Arabian peninsula, but he'd likely give those back for better fortune on this PK in 2010 (great theater in the best game of that tourney)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBDK-HEbIZs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBDK-HEbIZs)


Shouldnt have even been a penalty in the first place. That was the biggest piece of cheating since Maradona. I would like them to change that rule in the future, if someone handballs it when the ball will go in, it should be counted as a goal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 06, 2014, 03:01:22 PM
Shouldnt have even been a penalty in the first place. That was the biggest piece of cheating since Maradona. I would like them to change that rule in the future, if someone handballs it when the ball will go in, it should be counted as a goal.

That miss was karma for Ghana after the absolute shameful display they put on in the second half against the US.  There is time wasting, and then there is diving, not to draw a penalty, but to give an excuse to go to ground and remain there for a few minutes. People who complain about Italians or Spaniards diving have never watched the African countries in world competition.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 06, 2014, 03:12:36 PM
That miss was karma for Ghana after the absolute shameful display they put on in the second half against the US.  There is time wasting, and then there is diving, not to draw a penalty, but to give an excuse to go to ground and remain there for a few minutes. People who complain about Italians or Spaniards diving have never watched the African countries in world competition.

Meh, depends. I follow the Ivory Coast really closely and they dont play that way.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 07, 2014, 08:55:49 AM
Two general questions, as NYWarrior and I were discussing the USMNT and the World Cup.

1. Do you think USMNT advances out of the group stage?
2. How many points do you think they earn?

I wrote this on December 6th and still believe it to be true:

Germany on 9
US on 4
Portugal on 2
Ghana on 1

July 1st against Belgium.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 12, 2014, 05:15:40 PM
Prelim roster.....http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/05/12/13/23/140512-mnt-prelim-roster

I suppose no Johnson is only real surprise. Curious if all the German-Americans make it. Also curious to see how Boyd does in camp since he ended the season extremely well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 13, 2014, 09:58:03 AM
Prelim roster.....http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/05/12/13/23/140512-mnt-prelim-roster

I suppose no Johnson is only real surprise. Curious if all the German-Americans make it. Also curious to see how Boyd does in camp since he ended the season extremely well.

Im surprised Chandler ended up on there, and Deandre Yedlin isn't a name that was tossed around, even as a possibility, which is a surprise to me as well.

Johnson has just been awful for DC United as of late, so this isn't a complete shock
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 13, 2014, 10:32:39 AM
Im surprised Chandler ended up on there, and Deandre Yedlin isn't a name that was tossed around, even as a possibility, which is a surprise to me as well.

Johnson has just been awful for DC United as of late, so this isn't a complete shock

Not making the final roster wouldn't be a surprise given his form but I do think EJ not even making the 30 man is a bit surprising.

I've looked at the list a few times and four names are clearly going to be cut (Yedlin, Corona, Davis, Wondo). The last three I've no clue who stays home.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on May 13, 2014, 10:51:56 AM
Two general questions, as NYWarrior and I were discussing the USMNT and the World Cup.

1. Do you think USMNT advances out of the group stage?
2. How many points do you think they earn?

I think the US gets through with 6, only losing to Germany
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on May 13, 2014, 11:14:22 AM
Hoping for my homie, Parkhurst, to make the squad.  Defense is pretty unsettled right now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 15, 2014, 09:48:03 AM
Miller Park will host a friendly in July between Swansea and Chivas- http://brewers.mlblogs.com/2014/05/15/miller-park-to-host-chivas-and-swansea-city-a-f-c-soccer-match-in-july/?partnerId=as_mil_20140515_23971604
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: swoopem on May 15, 2014, 09:57:46 AM
I'm not sure if it's been discussed or not, but ESPN is doing a "Hard Knocks" "24/7" type of thing with the US squad. It premiered on Tuesday night and it's pretty cool. I'm late to this conversation but damn am I excited for the Cup to begin. I'm confident we'll get out of our group. Beat Ghana, beat Portugal, tie Germany. Yup, I said it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on May 15, 2014, 10:20:15 AM
I'm not sure if it's been discussed or not, but ESPN is doing a "Hard Knocks" "24/7" type of thing with the US squad. It premiered on Tuesday night and it's pretty cool. I'm late to this conversation but damn am I excited for the Cup to begin. I'm confident we'll get out of our group. Beat Ghana, beat Portugal, tie Germany. Yup, I said it.
  After the Mexico meltdown, I'm quite a but less optimistic than you.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 15, 2014, 11:13:11 AM
After the Mexico meltdown, I'm quite a but less optimistic than you.

Hard to read a ton into that result. In the first half they looked like they'd play anyone off the park.

The first episode of that series was very interesting. I particularly enjoyed the footage of their preparation, and hearing Jurgen and his staff discuss their tactics.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on May 15, 2014, 12:30:50 PM
  After the Mexico meltdown, I'm quite a but less optimistic than you.

I'm not sure how you can describe that as a meltdown.  Significant tactical and personnel changes took place at half that changed the character of that game.  Yes the defense was exposed some, but the backline has always been questionable.

That's part of the reason I'm surprised Jurgen is going to a 3-5-2, I get it tactically going forward(though I'm not sure if Jozy fits in that kind of formation) but defensively I think it incurs far too many opportunities to miscommunicate in the back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 15, 2014, 12:42:05 PM
That's part of the reason I'm surprised Jurgen is going to a 3-5-2, I get it tactically going forward(though I'm not sure if Jozy fits in that kind of formation) but defensively I think it incurs far too many opportunities to miscommunicate in the back.

Agreed. They've had a hard enough time finding two center backs that are effective together, let alone three.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 22, 2014, 04:42:15 PM
Bombshell
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on May 22, 2014, 04:44:13 PM
I'm not sure how you can describe that as a meltdown.  Significant tactical and personnel changes took place at half that changed the character of that game.  Yes the defense was exposed some, but the backline has always been questionable.

That's part of the reason I'm surprised Jurgen is going to a 3-5-2, I get it tactically going forward(though I'm not sure if Jozy fits in that kind of formation) but defensively I think it incurs far too many opportunities to miscommunicate in the back.

 Really?  The defense looked and played disorganized and confused.  Blowing a 2-0 lead qualifies as a meltdown IMO, esp. against a rival like the Tri.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on May 22, 2014, 04:48:01 PM
Bombshell


Well, Donovan probably shouldn't have taken a break during the early stages of the Klinnsman regime. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wadesworld on May 22, 2014, 04:56:35 PM
Does it really matter who does and does not make the roster? The USA won't be making any noise regardless, per usual.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 22, 2014, 04:57:47 PM

Well, Donovan probably shouldn't have taken a break during the early stages of the Klinnsman regime. 

Eh... I'm not so sure that's it. Donovan carried the Gold Cup squad and did a fair amount of work in qualifying. My guess? 2014 LD is not 2011-2013 LD. Still. I would think a #23 LD is a greater team benefit than a #23 Davis.

10 years ago, 5 years ago, 1 year ago, 1 month ago... at which point would everyone be surprised if i would have told you then that Beasley would get 4 WC appearances instead of LD?

Seems like Klinsy is taking youth and building toward 2018. At the expense of 2014? Maybe.

Serious question.. was Julian Green's 1 time switch to USA predicated on him being guaranteed a spot in Brazil. And, if so, was LD's spot cut for Green? Interesting scenarios....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on May 22, 2014, 05:02:15 PM
Yeah, that makes more sense.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 22, 2014, 05:19:57 PM
Does it really matter who does and does not make the roster? The USA won't be making any noise regardless, per usual.

How do you define this? I'm interested to know what you're basing this statement on when you consider the state of US soccer compared to the world as well as compared to the rest of our domestic sports.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 23, 2014, 12:53:42 AM
US is in a tough, tough group.I dont disagree with JK bringing the youth movement to get them exposed. Super anxious and ready for it to begin, especially after watching that 30 for 30 "The two Escobars" Viva Colombia. Unidos por un pais.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on May 23, 2014, 08:20:44 AM
I don't know how I feel about the Donovan decision.  I get that his fitness and overall preparedness aren't what they once were but from a talent level he's still there and can bring it when he needs to.  Without Donovan, USMNT has 5 out of 23 players with WC experience, that's not good.  There is going to be a game where we are going to need a sub to step out and perform, with Donovan you get that, I don't know about the other guys.  I do think this opens up some formational flexibility

Interesting twist to this story that I totally forgot about, JK demanded Donovan be brought in on loan to Bayern Munich when JK was on the hot seat.  Ownership acquiesced, Donovan did not perform and shortly thereafter he and JK were out at Bayern.  I wonder if there is a trust issue there with JK.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 23, 2014, 08:51:01 AM
I don't know how I feel about the Donovan decision.  I get that his fitness and overall preparedness aren't what they once were but from a talent level he's still there and can bring it when he needs to.  Without Donovan, USMNT has 5 out of 23 players with WC experience, that's not good.  There is going to be a game where we are going to need a sub to step out and perform, with Donovan you get that, I don't know about the other guys.  I do think this opens up some formational flexibility

Interesting twist to this story that I totally forgot about, JK demanded Donovan be brought in on loan to Bayern Munich when JK was on the hot seat.  Ownership acquiesced, Donovan did not perform and shortly thereafter he and JK were out at Bayern.  I wonder if there is a trust issue there with JK.

THis was running around twitter yesterday. Allegedly some agent (not sure if LD's) said this played largely into the decision.

The thing I don't understand, is if Klins was so against LD, especially after the sabbatical/Cambodia trip, why bring him in to lead your Gold Cup squad and praise him around that time?

If LD wasn't going to be on this WC roster, it should have been made known once the sabbatical took place, not now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on May 23, 2014, 10:05:11 AM
Looks like he's really using 2014 to get ready for 2018.  This year's squad is very inexperienced.  And no Donovan, Goodson, Parkhurst, Evans.  Green with 1 cap and 42 minutes with the MNT?  Does not sound like an objectively selected squad.  Good luck.  Hope you surprise me.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on May 23, 2014, 10:50:24 AM
Looks like he's really using 2014 to get ready for 2018.  This year's squad is very inexperienced.  And no Donovan, Goodson, Parkhurst, Evans.  Green with 1 cap and 42 minutes with the MNT?  Does not sound like an objectively selected squad.  Good luck.  Hope you surprise me.

Actually I disagree.  If you look at the roster within the context of a 3-5-2 alignment, it makes all the sense in the world.  I do think he has a youth movement to help prepare for 2018 but I think he is envisioning a very attacking style and has the pieces to employ that....whether it's a good idea or not is another discussion.

Goodson is the biggest snub in my opinion, would have left Brooks off for him...but I really can't quibble too much.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 23, 2014, 11:24:30 AM
Actually I disagree.  If you look at the roster within the context of a 3-5-2 alignment, it makes all the sense in the world.  I do think he has a youth movement to help prepare for 2018 but I think he is envisioning a very attacking style and has the pieces to employ that....whether it's a good idea or not is another discussion.

Goodson is the biggest snub in my opinion, would have left Brooks off for him...but I really can't quibble too much.

What's your 3-5-2 lineup look like?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on May 23, 2014, 11:28:15 AM
I know I'm biased because Parkhurst started out with our club, but he can play all 3 positions on the back line and I would have taken him for his experience and versatility.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 23, 2014, 12:21:09 PM
What's your 3-5-2 lineup look like?

I'll take stab, and this is just my preference. It would play more like a 3-1-4-2. Jozy up top, Dempsey playing behind him. Bradley and Jones in the central midfield. Beckermann as a defensive mid behind them. Johnson and Chandler as wing backs. Back three of Cameron, Besler, and Gonzalez.

I like Beckermann's tactical discipline much more than Jones in that holding/DM role. It gives cover to the back three, and would allow Bradley to get forward more, and link with the front two. Johnson and Chandler's pace on the flanks could cause problems, but is also risky. They both love to get forward, but I'm not sold on how well they'll track back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on May 23, 2014, 12:37:15 PM
What's your 3-5-2 lineup look like?


Across the back is toughest for me and obviously things change based on the opponent but my base 3-5-2 looks like this:
                                                      Jozy

                                           Dempsey


                                              Bradley
Fabian Johnson                                                                       Zusi


                                 Beckerman                Jones


                       Beasley                  Besler                Cameron


                                                   Howard
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 23, 2014, 12:40:25 PM
I'll take stab, and this is just my preference. It would play more like a 3-1-4-2. Jozy up top, Dempsey playing behind him. Bradley and Jones in the central midfield. Beckermann as a defensive mid behind them. Johnson and Chandler as wing backs. Back three of Cameron, Besler, and Gonzalez.

I like Beckermann's tactical discipline much more than Jones in that holding/DM role. It gives cover to the back three, and would allow Bradley to get forward more, and link with the front two. Johnson and Chandler's pace on the flanks could cause problems, but is also risky. They both love to get forward, but I'm not sold on how well they'll track back.

For defensive purposes, especially against Ghana and Portugal's speed/athleticism, I don't think you can play both Beckerman (though I love the guy) and Gonzo on the back end.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 23, 2014, 12:43:43 PM
Across the back is toughest for me and obviously things change based on the opponent but my base 3-5-2 looks like this:


I, personally, think Beasley is too much of a wing to play across the back with only 3. I'm not sure that Chandler or Johnson can play there either.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on May 23, 2014, 12:52:09 PM
I, personally, think Beasley is too much of a wing to play across the back with only 3. I'm not sure that Chandler or Johnson can play there either.

That's the box Klinsmann has built for himself.  He is going for attacking and there is going to have to be a less than ideal back on the left side.  That's partially why I'm giving Beckerman the start, he can track back and cover the left side if both Beasley and Johnson go forward plus between Johnson and Beasley the two of them should be able track down some guys.

The big unknown is Yedlin...he's got real promise as a very solid defender who can get forward if required....but he is so bloody inexperienced I don't know that you can risk it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on May 23, 2014, 01:20:59 PM
How do you define this? I'm interested to know what you're basing this statement on when you consider the state of US soccer compared to the world as well as compared to the rest of our domestic sports.

He bases it on nothing.  Read the rest of his posts in this thread.  Not worth your time to try and argue or understand.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 23, 2014, 01:43:31 PM
For defensive purposes, especially against Ghana and Portugal's speed/athleticism, I don't think you can play both Beckerman (though I love the guy) and Gonzo on the back end.

You could be right. I'm trying to figure out what a back four might look like, and keep ending up with Beasley at LB. And the thought of that is terrifying. I don't trust Johnson to take on the defensive responsibilities.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on May 23, 2014, 04:37:31 PM
Bradley and Deuce need to figure out how to play better together.   They always seem to be out of sync from my untrained eye.   Bradley and Donovan had that knack to play together,  but just don't see that same connection with Clint and Bradley.   As our two most skilled players,  they HAVE to be able to figure this out if they want to get out of the group.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 23, 2014, 10:51:52 PM
The thing I don't understand, is if Klins was so against LD, especially after the sabbatical/Cambodia trip, why bring him in to lead your Gold Cup squad and praise him around that time?

If LD wasn't going to be on this WC roster, it should have been made known once the sabbatical took place, not now.

I think its more than JK wasn't as enamored with LD as everyone else was.  And he wasn't a shoe-in for a WC spot like everyone thought.  Still he was good enough to give a run.  So he brought him in for the Gold Cup, as opposed to the WC qualifiers, and rightfully praised him for his play.  This time around, LD wasn't playing great at the club level and was out of shape.  In the past he probably would have made the squad based on legacy, but not with JK and the past they had.  I see it more as LD was fine as long as he was playing well, but when he started to fall off a bit, he wasn't getting any favors.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 27, 2014, 08:50:02 AM
I think its more than JK wasn't as enamored with LD as everyone else was.  And he wasn't a shoe-in for a WC spot like everyone thought.  Still he was good enough to give a run.  So he brought him in for the Gold Cup, as opposed to the WC qualifiers, and rightfully praised him for his play.  This time around, LD wasn't playing great at the club level and was out of shape.  In the past he probably would have made the squad based on legacy, but not with JK and the past they had.  I see it more as LD was fine as long as he was playing well, but when he started to fall off a bit, he wasn't getting any favors.

This is a good perspective.

Because Klinsmann has accomplished nearly everything possible in his career he's not prone to the PR decision of having Donovan in the squad. He's simply looking at what can help him at this moment. With their history in Munich, the "sabbatical", and Donovan's increasingly blasé attitude towards soccer as a profession you can see why Klinsmann decided against him.

Though I never expected Donovan to play a major part in Brasil it still is a surprise he couldn't sneak into a 23 man roster.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on May 27, 2014, 09:26:49 AM
Landon had a good pretty good weekend, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 27, 2014, 10:22:34 AM
Landon had a good pretty good weekend, wouldn't you say?

He had a good game against a bad team who has given up the most goals in the MLS this year.  Its like a good player in the NBA being left off the All-Star team and then dropping 30 on the Bucks.

But congrats to LD on the record, he claimed it from some pretty elite company
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 27, 2014, 04:30:06 PM
He had a good game against a bad team who has given up the most goals in the MLS this year.  Its like a good player in the NBA being left off the All-Star team and then dropping 30 on the Bucks.

But congrats to LD on the record, he claimed it from some pretty elite company

It is strange how that was turned into a "told you so" moment by the media. A World Cup cycle takes many, many months. The evidence for Klinsmann's decision was laid out and it's simply ironic timing that Donovan had a very good match on the weekend. Of course, Donovan could do crap all the next three weeks but I imagine the narrative that he "showed" Klinsmann will remain strong amongst the unwashed masses.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on May 28, 2014, 01:59:09 PM
I'm not sure how you can describe that as a meltdown.  Significant tactical and personnel changes took place at half that changed the character of that game.  Yes the defense was exposed some, but the backline has always been questionable.

That's part of the reason I'm surprised Jurgen is going to a 3-5-2, I get it tactically going forward(though I'm not sure if Jozy fits in that kind of formation) but defensively I think it incurs far too many opportunities to miscommunicate in the back.
  Where was that 3-5-2 yesterday?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 28, 2014, 02:05:16 PM
  Where was that 3-5-2 yesterday?

I think Dempsey being out had something to do with going with the diamond in the middle like they did as opposed to the 3-5-2.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on May 28, 2014, 02:08:13 PM
  Where was that 3-5-2 yesterday?

No Dempsey in chaotic conditions against a team squatting 10 behind the ball...why would there be?  Klinnsy ran a 4-4-2 with a diamond mid-field.  With Fabian Johnson playing right back that essentially allowed them to a 3-5-2 lite.  They didn't need the midfield possetion of a 3-5-2 against that opponent.  Expect more 3-5-2 against Turkey June 1
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on May 28, 2014, 02:27:44 PM
Yeah, they were bunkered in weren't they?  We'll see on the first.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 28, 2014, 06:32:50 PM
It was basically a 3-5-2 while attacking. Jones, Cameron, Besler were playing a back 3 while attacking as Johnson and Beasley pushed way up the field and Zusi/Bedoya cut inside.

Also, Yedlin drilled a guy: https://vine.co/v/MdhrOpTi51v
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 02, 2014, 08:49:56 AM
Yeah, they were bunkered in weren't they?  We'll see on the first.

And your thoughts on Turkey?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 02, 2014, 12:56:35 PM
And your thoughts on Turkey?

Before anyone says they were in a 4-4-2, once again, Fabian Johnson was essentially playing as a right midfielder, especially in the attacking half.  I thought it was strong game from the US, but they really do need to clean-up the communication in the defense, I actually put a lot of this on Howard/Guzan....they should be controlling the back line better.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 02, 2014, 01:53:57 PM
And your thoughts on Turkey?
Was only able to watch the last 30 minutes so missed the most impressive part of the game for the US.  After catching some replays, the first US goal was a beauty and the pass from Bradley shows just how important he is to this team.  From what I saw of the second half, the defense needs to be cleaned up.  Also seemed to be several chances we missed on and to me it looked like we were playing tentatively there.  Has Altidore rejected aggressive attacking play in favor of always holding the ball up front?  There's a time for everything and his drought continues.  good win though.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on June 02, 2014, 02:09:08 PM
defense is a big question mark as we won't able to make mistakes like we did in our group.
Altidore is an enigma as he passed up several shooting opportunities to pass off.  Can't score if you don't even try. Don't know what is going on in his head. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 04, 2014, 09:31:18 AM
Was only able to watch the last 30 minutes so missed the most impressive part of the game for the US.  After catching some replays, the first US goal was a beauty and the pass from Bradley shows just how important he is to this team.  From what I saw of the second half, the defense needs to be cleaned up.  Also seemed to be several chances we missed on and to me it looked like we were playing tentatively there.  Has Altidore rejected aggressive attacking play in favor of always holding the ball up front?  There's a time for everything and his drought continues.  good win though.

The back four will be an easy excuse since JK has done the rare ignore a surefire starter for most of qualifying only to have him penciled in for Cup opener routine with Chandler.

As for Jozy, I thought he did some real good things against Turkey. Perhaps some of his "troubles" come from knowing there is no one else for his role. Then again, there's never been anyone in his exact role pushing him and last year he did score in five straight matches so it's clear we can forget when he does well only to believe he's a waste in the grand plan.

Wonderful to see Mix finding his niche off the bench. Still think Johannsson is the most talented forward we have in front of the net, regardless of his youth. And hope JK isn't truly considering Davis over Bedoya.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 04, 2014, 09:35:30 AM
Was the foul on Jozy that took away his early goal justified?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 04, 2014, 09:53:47 AM
Was the foul on Jozy that took away his early goal justified?

Very marginal foul. Probably shouldn't have been given.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 04, 2014, 10:48:03 AM
Was the foul on Jozy that took away his early goal justified?

Yes. always going to be called when the keeper is involved
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 04, 2014, 10:50:13 AM
The back four will be an easy excuse since JK has done the rare ignore a surefire starter for most of qualifying only to have him penciled in for Cup opener routine with Chandler.

As for Jozy, I thought he did some real good things against Turkey. Perhaps some of his "troubles" come from knowing there is no one else for his role. Then again, there's never been anyone in his exact role pushing him and last year he did score in five straight matches so it's clear we can forget when he does well only to believe he's a waste in the grand plan.

Wonderful to see Mix finding his niche off the bench. Still think Johannsson is the most talented forward we have in front of the net, regardless of his youth. And hope JK isn't truly considering Davis over Bedoya.

You think Chandler's inclusion/exclusion was based on JK and not on Chandler being indecisive?

Jozy played well.

I hate Mix playing on the outside. He should be playing in the middle, but I can't think of a way to get Bradley and Mix on the field at the same time without them running into each other.

Agree on Johannsson. If Dempsey proves lazy or ineffective, I think Aron should be on the field after Ghana.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 05, 2014, 11:07:41 AM
You think Chandler's inclusion/exclusion was based on JK and not on Chandler being indecisive?

Jozy played well.

I hate Mix playing on the outside. He should be playing in the middle, but I can't think of a way to get Bradley and Mix on the field at the same time without them running into each other.

Agree on Johannsson. If Dempsey proves lazy or ineffective, I think Aron should be on the field after Ghana.

Chandler was clearly indecisive early on when deciding to accept a call-up to the US team but once decided and committed to qualifying I think JK knew he had a professional in hand and played around at that position to see if there was a viable alternative.

The Germans always seemed to be the wing back choices and with Gonzo's injury it now allows JK to put Cameron in his natural position. I think the "they don't know each other" media trope is lazy and US hopes hinge more on whether Dempsey is engaged with AJ and/or Mix providing some credibility off the bench.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 05, 2014, 12:10:47 PM
You think Chandler's inclusion/exclusion was based on JK and not on Chandler being indecisive?

Jozy played well.

I hate Mix playing on the outside. He should be playing in the middle, but I can't think of a way to get Bradley and Mix on the field at the same time without them running into each other.

Agree on Johannsson. If Dempsey proves lazy or ineffective, I think Aron should be on the field after Ghana.
  Play 4-3-3 with width provided by wing forwards. Then Bradley is the central midfielder and Diskerud is not obligated to stay outside sending crosses in but is not so pinched in that he runs into Bradley.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 05, 2014, 12:18:24 PM
BTW, anyone still expecting us to play 3-5-2?  I don't see that happening unless it's desperation time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 05, 2014, 12:42:43 PM
BTW, anyone still expecting us to play 3-5-2?  I don't see that happening unless it's desperation time.

From an official pregame announcement?  No.  But effectively they will be playing a 3-5-2 any time Fabian is playing one of the backs
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 05, 2014, 12:47:57 PM
  Play 4-3-3 with width provided by wing forwards. Then Bradley is the central midfielder and Diskerud is not obligated to stay outside sending crosses in but is not so pinched in that he runs into Bradley.

Who are the 3 mids and 3 forwards in your mind here?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 05, 2014, 12:48:14 PM
From an official pregame announcement?  No.  But effectively they will be playing a 3-5-2 any time Fabian is playing one of the backs

This.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 05, 2014, 03:33:02 PM
From an official pregame announcement?  No.  But effectively they will be playing a 3-5-2 any time Fabian is playing one of the backs.
Wouldn't that qualify as 3-2-4-1 then?  LOL.

Point being that there is no point in using numerical designations to describe what formation is being played.  How they line up, how they play in attack and how they defend are 3 different things.  No, there won't be any pre-game 3-5-2 announcements, I'd wager.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 05, 2014, 03:35:56 PM
Who are the 3 mids and 3 forwards in your mind here?
  since you wanted Diskerud in the mix, I'd say:

Mids - Bedoya, Bradley, Diskerud

Forwards - Dempsey, Altidore, pick any other forward you like.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 06, 2014, 08:14:46 AM
Wouldn't that qualify as 3-2-4-1 then?  LOL.

Point being that there is no point in using numerical designations to describe what formation is being played.  How they line up, how they play in attack and how they defend are 3 different things.  No, there won't be any pre-game 3-5-2 announcements, I'd wager.

Ultimately you are right, there are all sorts of ways to classify the same formation.  My point is that going forward they will have a lot of wing attackers with Dempsey/Altidore/Bradley creating the trouble in the middle.  Attacking it's probably a 3-5-2 and on defense it is probably a 5-3-2 with Jones becoming essentially a stopper and Johnson winging back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 06, 2014, 08:22:29 AM
Anyone got insider?

http://insider.espn.go.com/sports/soccer/story/_/id/11035983/comparing-2010-2014-us-national-teams-2014-world-cup
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 06, 2014, 08:23:19 AM
  since you wanted Diskerud in the mix, I'd say:

Mids - Bedoya, Bradley, Diskerud

Forwards - Dempsey, Altidore, pick any other forward you like.

Just my 2 cents.

Interesting. That could work. I'm not so sure Dempsey's role is a winger, but I get that. I actually kinda like the idea of Bedoya-Bradley-Diskerud across the middle
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 06, 2014, 08:35:36 AM
Interesting. That could work. I'm not so sure Dempsey's role is a winger, but I get that. I actually kinda like the idea of Bedoya-Bradley-Diskerud across the middle

I really kind of hate Jones not being in the DM role.  I think that puts even more pressure on the defense without a lot of benefit on the attacking end.  I think this formation puts too much traffic on the wings.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 06, 2014, 08:37:43 AM
Interesting. That could work. I'm not so sure Dempsey's role is a winger, but I get that. I actually kinda like the idea of Bedoya-Bradley-Diskerud across the middle

But what do I know, I prefer Davis to Bedoya and love Zusi.  If Diskerud could play on the left side instead of Davis I'd be ok with that but for me I would never take Zusi out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 06, 2014, 08:50:43 AM
But what do I know, I prefer Davis to Bedoya and love Zusi.  If Diskerud could play on the left side instead of Davis I'd be ok with that but for me I would never take Zusi out.

May I ask why you prefer Davis to Bedoya?

As for the DM role talked about above, it's clear that Bradley partners better with Beckerman (not to mention he's less a card risk) but short of an injury he'll never be ahead of Jones.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 06, 2014, 09:01:09 AM
May I ask why you prefer Davis to Bedoya?

As for the DM role talked about above, it's clear that Bradley partners better with Beckerman (not to mention he's less a card risk) but short of an injury he'll never be ahead of Jones.

For me it's a risk/reward analysis.  I think Davis is less risky but less flashy/aggresive where as Bedoya is no doubt a talent but is high risk.  I also think Davis has more flexibility in position he plays during a game as we as serving the ball into the area during run of play or from a set piece.

Bedoya is the right piece is we need attacking off the wing, with this team I think they enter the ball from the wing(Davis strong suit)


As far as Beckerman...he is far too slow especially when we are playing Ghana and Portugal.  I could see Beckerman playing against Germany though.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 06, 2014, 10:52:38 AM
For me it's a risk/reward analysis.  I think Davis is less risky but less flashy/aggresive where as Bedoya is no doubt a talent but is high risk.  I also think Davis has more flexibility in position he plays during a game as we as serving the ball into the area during run of play or from a set piece.

Bedoya is the right piece is we need attacking off the wing, with this team I think they enter the ball from the wing(Davis strong suit)


As far as Beckerman...he is far too slow especially when we are playing Ghana and Portugal.  I could see Beckerman playing against Germany though.

On a team that is dying for creativity and attacking mindset it seems strange to advocate for a less risky option. Davis provides nothing more than a nice ball off a set piece. He's nowhere near the player Bedoya is, especially considering how strong of a finish to his season Bedoya had with Nantes. Shocked he was included in this squad over Donovan (because the excuse that LD is a forward is simply nonsense).

I don't see the slowness with Beckerman. He's no slower than Jones. He's more disciplined. Much better at holding his position in front of defense and not allowing those wide gulfs of space that Jones does when he fashions himself an offensive genius. In qualifying, US had much more a steady pace about it when Bradley was able to probe with Beckerman staying anchored. In the end, it doesn't matter unless Jones gets injured.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 06, 2014, 12:42:31 PM
On a team that is dying for creativity and attacking mindset it seems strange to advocate for a less risky option. Davis provides nothing more than a nice ball off a set piece. He's nowhere near the player Bedoya is, especially considering how strong of a finish to his season Bedoya had with Nantes. Shocked he was included in this squad over Donovan (because the excuse that LD is a forward is simply nonsense).

I don't see the slowness with Beckerman. He's no slower than Jones. He's more disciplined. Much better at holding his position in front of defense and not allowing those wide gulfs of space that Jones does when he fashions himself an offensive genius. In qualifying, US had much more a steady pace about it when Bradley was able to probe with Beckerman staying anchored. In the end, it doesn't matter unless Jones gets injured.
  Agree. Not sure what Klinsy will do, but for me it would be Bedoya especially against Ghana, where we absolutely need the win and will hopefully score first.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 07, 2014, 04:46:51 PM
Interesting choice going with Jones and Beckerman against Nigeria. Assume a 4-2-3-1 with Bradley the tip of the tree supporting the attack from his advanced position.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 07, 2014, 05:11:56 PM
Interesting choice going with Jones and Beckerman against Nigeria. Assume a 4-2-3-1 with Bradley the tip of the tree supporting the attack from his advanced position.

Yea. Almost looks a 4-3-2-1 when on D. I'm thinking with todays lineup, Dempsey will pinch and Fabian will overlap
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 09, 2014, 09:16:11 AM
I prefer Beckerman over Jones but did not think the former was all that good. Then I read various reports and grades after and it seems most thought he was just fine in his play.

Johnson had a difficult game I thought. His ball to Jozy on the first was sublime but he seemed to get caught out too often and at times Moses was just more physical in their battles.

Beasley did well. Perhaps JK really does see him over Chandler. Pick your poison with a converted mid to the back or a wrong sided foot at the position. Neither will be without concern.

Considering Ghana relies quite a bit on force the new Christmas tree could fit nicely on the Germanican catenaccio-lite we have going at the moment.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 09, 2014, 10:13:30 AM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/06/klinsmanns-personnel-experiment.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: T-Bone on June 09, 2014, 10:51:55 AM
John Oliver's take on FIFA.
http://screamer.deadspin.com/john-oliver-brilliantly-lays-out-all-the-reasons-to-hat-1588004855
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 09, 2014, 11:21:48 AM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/06/klinsmanns-personnel-experiment.html

Interesting quotes to read. We know that Bradley can fuel Dempsey and Jozy. If Beckerman and Jones can play together without crossing swords with Bedoya providing support and breakout ability you have 3/4 of your field in good form. Besler does seem more at ease with Beasley to his left so going into the 16th this squad could be positioned quite well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 09, 2014, 11:58:27 AM
Interesting quotes to read. We know that Bradley can fuel Dempsey and Jozy. If Beckerman and Jones can play together without crossing swords with Bedoya providing support and breakout ability you have 3/4 of your field in good form. Besler does seem more at ease with Beasley to his left so going into the 16th this squad could be positioned quite well.

Yea. I really liked that article. Good insight from the guys on the field.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 11, 2014, 09:19:45 AM
Anybody watch Portugal-Ireland last night from Jersey? Looked to me like Ronaldo was easing into most of the action and nowhere close to 100%. Curious to see if he holds back a bit against Germany for the more "winnable" games against US and Ghana.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: swoopem on June 11, 2014, 01:47:02 PM
Anyone know of a cheap website to get a US jersey? I'm trying to get an away Bradley and the cheapest I'm seeing is $112.00. I'm hoping that there is something a little cheaper out there. Thanks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 13, 2014, 09:14:44 AM
Lot of talk in December and January but nothing now that the Cup has started.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: swoopem on June 13, 2014, 11:20:42 AM
Croatia's goalie sucks. Dude coulda saved every one of those goals yesterday
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 13, 2014, 02:40:19 PM
Croatia's goalie sucks. Dude coulda saved every one of those goals yesterday

Ref would have just given them more opportunities even if he saved them all.

Missed the Mexico game. Disappointed they won.

Spain/Dutch isn't too impressive so far.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 13, 2014, 02:46:47 PM
Spain/Dutch isn't too impressive so far.

van Persie sure changed that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 13, 2014, 03:47:48 PM
Go Dutch!!  Go USA!!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on June 13, 2014, 04:42:23 PM
Wasn't expecting that from the Dutch.

Looking forward to seeing how Belgium can do as well.


And of course, Go Yanks!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 13, 2014, 06:00:42 PM
The Big Orange!  My 11-year already told me she's wearing her orange "Netherlands" t-shirt tomorrow.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 14, 2014, 03:57:22 PM
Costa Rica played outstanding. Think this will raise the respect level of CONCACAF? Nah
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: chren21 on June 15, 2014, 04:43:08 AM
Costa Rica played outstanding. Think this will raise the respect level of CONCACAF? Nah

It's all about the yanks, and always will be.  Leave for Manaus on Thursday.  Can't wait.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 15, 2014, 10:41:33 AM
It's all about the yanks, and always will be.  Leave for Manaus on Thursday.  Can't wait.

And Mexico.  But agree, unless they make a semi or something, the Central American countries are just there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 15, 2014, 07:08:38 PM
Messi gonna Messi
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 16, 2014, 09:01:15 AM
Been fascinating to see how each and every country (except Honduras) has made a real commitment from the start to be positive and look to bring game to their opponent. I'm curious to see if the USA looks to follow this lead. Words are wonderful but the players will truly have been watching, and truly been listening to JK, if they shed the cautiousness immediately.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 16, 2014, 01:05:31 PM
Outside of #7 punching a ref or a German, that probably could not have gone better for the US. Gotta take control with a win over Ghana. Interesting roster moves by Ghana today - playing defensive, giving up possession for ridiculous counter/speed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 16, 2014, 01:19:41 PM
Trying to play fast and on the counter might backfire if the conditions are as wet as they expect.

Huge opportunity for the US. Can almost put one foot in the round of 32 with a win.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brandx on June 16, 2014, 01:25:12 PM
I try so hard. Grandest worldwide sporting event, multiple games every day just like the NCAAs, US involvement, etc., etc.

But I just can't get into it. I am bored!!

Is it me or is it soccer?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 16, 2014, 01:34:04 PM
Is it me or is it soccer?

It's you.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 16, 2014, 01:39:26 PM
I try so hard. Grandest worldwide sporting event, multiple games every day just like the NCAAs, US involvement, etc., etc.

But I just can't get into it. I am bored!!

Is it me or is it soccer?


Hey I don't like some sports either.  But I love the World Cup!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Coleman on June 16, 2014, 01:44:40 PM
I try so hard. Grandest worldwide sporting event, multiple games every day just like the NCAAs, US involvement, etc., etc.

But I just can't get into it. I am bored!!

Is it me or is it soccer?

In general, soccer is boring. Just like swimming is boring, just like track events are boring to watch.

But if its the Olympics or the World Cup, I'll watch. The level of the competition and the world stage makes it exciting.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brandx on June 16, 2014, 01:48:14 PM
It's you.

I'm sure you are right.

I'm not a huge hockey fan, but watch the playoffs all the time and love it. Just can't get with soccer.

As kids, we played baseball or hoops everyday in the summer, but the only time we ever played soccer was on a Sunday afternoon to go along with having a few brews. It was never a "real" sport.

Probably just a generational thing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brandx on June 16, 2014, 01:50:14 PM
In general, soccer is boring. Just like swimming is boring, just like track events are boring to watch.

But if its the Olympics or the World Cup, I'll watch. The level of the competition and the world stage makes it exciting.

I'm the same way. I'd never attend a swim meet but have no problem watching it in the Olympics.

I'll try again with the game tonite.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 16, 2014, 02:41:55 PM
I'm the same way. I'd never attend a swim meet but have no problem watching it in the Olympics.

I'll try again with the game tonite.

It'll be different tonight. Tonight you are cheering for the United States of America.

If you can't get into tonight's game, you're a freedom hating communist.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brandx on June 16, 2014, 02:54:30 PM
It'll be different tonight. Tonight you are cheering for the United States of America.

If you can't get into tonight's game, you're a freedom hating communist.

I'll let you know tomorrow where my allegiances really lie >:(
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 16, 2014, 03:19:09 PM
I'll let you know tomorrow where my allegiances really lie >:(

(http://img.izismile.com/img/img5/20120821/640/oh_merica_640_19.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 16, 2014, 05:05:20 PM
Great start....though appears the Chicago fans are cheering harder for the USA than the L.A. fans  (teal implied)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 16, 2014, 08:36:58 PM
RIP American hamstrings everywhere
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 16, 2014, 09:03:32 PM
Trying to play fast and on the counter might backfire if the conditions are as wet as they expect.

Huge opportunity for the US. Can almost put one foot in the round of 32 with a win.
  Round of 16.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 16, 2014, 10:22:05 PM
  Round of 16.

Oh man. Brain fart.

What a smash and grab tonight. They were a bit rudderless, with Bradley having a nightmare, and no target man with Altidore out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on June 16, 2014, 11:01:33 PM
If Jozy is unable to return, can they bring in a sub for his roster spot?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 16, 2014, 11:25:34 PM
If Jozy is unable to return, can they bring in a sub for his roster spot?

No. Roster is what it is for every team at this point. Luckily, Portugal is decimated and out of sorts as well
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on June 16, 2014, 11:26:14 PM
 My better half and I were really looking forward to World Cup but after watching the NHL playoffs and Stanley Cup seeing soccer players going down and writhing in supposed agony after incidental contact was a bit disappointing. Hell, a King player had his cheek slashed open by a stick and was back out on the ice  the next time his line was sent.  Particularly as the first game was Brazil which seems to excel in histrionics.
U.S. took a beating today and did us proud by not whining. Dempsey and Jones were men out there today.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on June 17, 2014, 09:16:38 AM
No. Roster is what it is for every team at this point. Luckily, Portugal is decimated and out of sorts as well

That's what I figured.  Hopefully AJ will perform better against Portugal.


Anywhere stream for free?
Or does anyone want pm a fellow scooper some watch ESPN credentials?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 17, 2014, 09:42:30 AM
My better half and I were really looking forward to World Cup but after watching the NHL playoffs and Stanley Cup seeing soccer players going down and writhing in supposed agony after incidental contact was a bit disappointing. Hell, a King player had his cheek slashed open by a stick and was back out on the ice  the next time his line was sent.  Particularly as the first game was Brazil which seems to excel in histrionics.
U.S. took a beating today and did us proud by not whining. Dempsey and Jones were men out there today.

The gamesmanship in soccer is no worse than a guard in basketball accentuating contact in the lane or a wide receiver in football exasperatingly throwing their hands in the air on a deep ball. Hell, even those beloved hockey players you mentioned for their toughness were whistled multiple times this postseason for embellishment penalties.

Every sport has a culture of wanting to gain favor from the officials. Some just do it under pads and facemasks which make it tough for the average viewer to pick up on the deception.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 17, 2014, 09:45:59 AM
What is it about hockey fans that feel that their sport's players are "tougher" than everyone elses? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 17, 2014, 09:48:10 AM
That's what I figured.  Hopefully AJ will perform better against Portugal.


Anywhere stream for free?
Or does anyone want pm a fellow scooper some watch ESPN credentials?

Johannsson is the most talented forward in the US team. He was put into arguably the most difficult position any 9 could be and nothing -- good or bad -- could be derived from his 75 minutes.

As much as the US has played with a brute up front who excels in holding the ball up for Dempsey and Bradley, I'd love to see JK throw a skilled Johannsson against a depleted Portugal back four which would add some threat from the beginning.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: swoopem on June 17, 2014, 09:59:12 AM
Anyone know what the status is for the Portugal guy who went down with a hammy injury yesterday? Is he supposed to be out come Sunday or is it too early to tell, also is it a big lose for them?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 17, 2014, 10:08:11 AM
Johannsson is the most talented forward in the US team. He was put into arguably the most difficult position any 9 could be and nothing -- good or bad -- could be derived from his 75 minutes.

As much as the US has played with a brute up front who excels in holding the ball up for Dempsey and Bradley, I'd love to see JK throw a skilled Johannsson against a depleted Portugal back four which would add some threat from the beginning.


I will admit that I don't know a lot about assessing soccer talent so take this for what it's worth.  To me he seems like a guy who has raw talent, but seemed to lack decisiveness and strength.  Like a highly rated freshman basketball player in his first game on the road and thinking "oh...this isn't like high school."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on June 17, 2014, 10:12:05 AM
Johannsson is the most talented forward in the US team. He was put into arguably the most difficult position any 9 could be and nothing -- good or bad -- could be derived from his 75 minutes.

As much as the US has played with a brute up front who excels in holding the ball up for Dempsey and Bradley, I'd love to see JK throw a skilled Johannsson against a depleted Portugal back four which would add some threat from the beginning.

Maybe "better" wasn't the right word choice by me.  (And I am extremely uninformed about his abilities.)

Do you think he would have gotten much time yesterday without the injury?  Did JK originally  view him as a sub only? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 17, 2014, 10:15:24 AM
Maybe "better" wasn't the right word choice by me.  (And I am extremely uninformed about his abilities.)

Do you think he would have gotten much time yesterday without the injury?  Did JK originally  view him as a sub only? 

I think AJ is highly skilled, but without injury to Altidore, he would come in as a sub-only.  Unless of course Jozy was to play very poorly. 

I think if Dempsey was to leave the game, Wondolowski would be the one to replace him just due to his style of play.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 17, 2014, 10:35:57 AM

I will admit that I don't know a lot about assessing soccer talent so take this for what it's worth.  To me he seems like a guy who has raw talent, but seemed to lack decisiveness and strength.  Like a highly rated freshman basketball player in his first game on the road and thinking "oh...this isn't like high school."

AJ is 23 which isn't young but not yet finished developing. He had a good season in the Netherlands where he scored around 20 goals if I remember correctly which would be in roughly 35-40 games (don't know off top of head) so there is some sense of decisiveness around his game.

But, he's only played with the US less then 10 times. Still very new with teammates and, of course, the skill level from the creative types in midfield is different than what he's used to even at a mid-level club team.

For now, it's a bit of a square peg in a circle thing because Klinsmann's system isn't the best for AJ's playing style but AJ is the only guy on the team short of Dempsey who can bury a goal out of nothing. US will need that at some point this tournament.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Coleman on June 17, 2014, 10:45:05 AM
Great start....though appears the Chicago fans are cheering harder for the USA than the L.A. fans  (teal implied)

No teal needed

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/75576000/jpg/_75576477_75576476.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 17, 2014, 11:13:51 AM
AJ is 23 which isn't young but not yet finished developing. He had a good season in the Netherlands where he scored around 20 goals if I remember correctly which would be in roughly 35-40 games (don't know off top of head) so there is some sense of decisiveness around his game.

But, he's only played with the US less then 10 times. Still very new with teammates and, of course, the skill level from the creative types in midfield is different than what he's used to even at a mid-level club team.

For now, it's a bit of a square peg in a circle thing because Klinsmann's system isn't the best for AJ's playing style but AJ is the only guy on the team short of Dempsey who can bury a goal out of nothing. US will need that at some point this tournament.

Agreed with all your points.  Additionally, he's only been capped 9 times at the international level.  He's a fantastic talent, but he's not played often at this level.  The Danish league is a step down, and the Dutch league, while great soccer, isn't big on defense.  So there is an adjustment.  I think he'll be fine, but that was a really tough position to be placed into.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 17, 2014, 12:07:38 PM
That's what I figured.  Hopefully AJ will perform better against Portugal.


Anywhere stream for free?
Or does anyone want pm a fellow scooper some watch ESPN credentials?


firstrowsports
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 17, 2014, 12:11:07 PM
AJ is 23 which isn't young but not yet finished developing. He had a good season in the Netherlands where he scored around 20 goals if I remember correctly which would be in roughly 35-40 games (don't know off top of head) so there is some sense of decisiveness around his game.

But, he's only played with the US less then 10 times. Still very new with teammates and, of course, the skill level from the creative types in midfield is different than what he's used to even at a mid-level club team.

For now, it's a bit of a square peg in a circle thing because Klinsmann's system isn't the best for AJ's playing style but AJ is the only guy on the team short of Dempsey who can bury a goal out of nothing. US will need that at some point this tournament.

Agreed. Our attacking strategy/tactics/buildup as well as possession are currently based on jozy's holdup ability. now the midfield will have to be much more involved in holding the ball. It'll either be counterattack starting with the mids and building to Dempsey and Aron or we'll have to play more methodically in getting our mids up to support the front 2. Should be a big adjustment either way. It'll be interesting to see what Klinsy chooses to do.

We may also see a 1 striker look with Dempsey and Mix on the field behind him. Somewhat of a false 9.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 17, 2014, 01:02:51 PM
We may also see a 1 striker look with Dempsey and Mix on the field behind him. Somewhat of a false 9.

That was my first thought. I like Johannsson as a pacey sub off the bench if they need to chase it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 17, 2014, 01:32:19 PM
Of course, our #1 goal should be figuring out what the unnatural carnal knowledge is going on with the physio/fitness/stamina. Can't be subbing d/t cramps. Can't be having injuries d/t conditioning problems.

There's a bit of a theory floated out there that Kliny's hyper-fitness model may be coming back to bite the team right now. (somewhat like people wondered if Buzz did the same to MU)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on June 17, 2014, 02:11:47 PM
That's what I figured.  Hopefully AJ will perform better against Portugal.


Anywhere stream for free?
Or does anyone want pm a fellow scooper some watch ESPN credentials?


Deadspin has multiple streams for every game and most of them are in HD.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 17, 2014, 02:20:42 PM
What is it about hockey fans that feel that their sport's players are "tougher" than everyone elses? 

Because it is....IMO

When I saw Getzlaf take a puck to the face or the guy from the Rangers break his jaw, yet both were out there the next game, that just embodies hockey.  Get some teeth knocked out, go to the locker room and come back for the next period. 

That being said, soccer gets a bad rap in terms of toughness.  From personal experience, all of my broken bones, ligament tears, etc, were from soccer over the years.  Football, never a serious injury. That's only one person's perspective, but no padding basically with soccer, running like a dog for 90 minutes on a huge field, a lot can happen.  Football I felt like I was playing hard for 5 seconds then doing nothing for 30, playing hard for 5 seconds, then nothing.  Depending if you played both sides of the ball, you also got a lot of downtime potentially.  My two cents.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 17, 2014, 02:23:42 PM
Of course, our #1 goal should be figuring out what the unnatural carnal knowledge is going on with the physio/fitness/stamina. Can't be subbing d/t cramps. Can't be having injuries d/t conditioning problems.

There's a bit of a theory floated out there that Kliny's hyper-fitness model may be coming back to bite the team right now. (somewhat like people wondered if Buzz did the same to MU)

I think the perception is worse than reality on fitness. Jozy in full stride would have pulled that hamstring whether in Natal or Portland, Maine. As a result, they were extra careful with Besler. I'd expect him to be fine and start on Sunday.

Otherwise, Dempsey nose and Bedoya hip have nothing to do with fitness. In fact, as winded as they would have been at the end I didn't see any telltale indication of heavy legs from the 10 that were out there. Seemed to still have some gas left.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 17, 2014, 02:25:07 PM
No teal needed

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/75576000/jpg/_75576477_75576476.jpg)


We had viewing parties as well.  No teal needed

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10442566_800433166641599_6859038495182484227_n.jpg)



At the same time, there was another party going on.  Multitasking


(https://tribktla.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/parade-ph.jpg)

(http://3.cdn.nhle.com/kings/images/upload/gallery/2012/06/146350320_slide.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 17, 2014, 02:27:45 PM
Because it is....IMO

When I saw Getzlaf take a puck to the face or the guy from the Rangers break his jaw, yet both were out there the next game, that just embodies hockey.  Get some teeth knocked out, go to the locker room and come back for the next period. 


You have apparently bought into the hype as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 17, 2014, 02:31:53 PM
Because it is....IMO

When I saw Getzlaf take a puck to the face or the guy from the Rangers break his jaw, yet both were out there the next game, that just embodies hockey.  Get some teeth knocked out, go to the locker room and come back for the next period. 

That being said, soccer gets a bad rap in terms of toughness.  From personal experience, all of my broken bones, ligament tears, etc, were from soccer over the years.  Football, never a serious injury. That's only one person's perspective, but no padding basically with soccer, running like a dog for 90 minutes on a huge field, a lot can happen.  Football I felt like I was playing hard for 5 seconds then doing nothing for 30, playing hard for 5 seconds, then nothing.  Depending if you played both sides of the ball, you also got a lot of downtime potentially.  My two cents.

In one of my adult league games I took a crosscheck to the kidney once.  I couldn't move without the aid of excess ibuprofen for like 5 days.  Getting out of bed the morning after was extremely painful.  To add insult to injury, I would have stayed home from work, but I had to go as I was hosting customers from China for the next 2 days. 
 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 17, 2014, 02:38:43 PM
I think the perception is worse than reality on fitness. Jozy in full stride would have pulled that hamstring whether in Natal or Portland, Maine. As a result, they were extra careful with Besler. I'd expect him to be fine and start on Sunday.

Otherwise, Dempsey nose and Bedoya hip have nothing to do with fitness. In fact, as winded as they would have been at the end I didn't see any telltale indication of heavy legs from the 10 that were out there. Seemed to still have some gas left.

Agree, I've seen it said in several places that the US team didn't look fit and I think that is false and based off of a few hamstring items that in general are not fitness related.

I think the US got out-possessed not because of lack of fitness, but really because of poor performances from Beckerman and Bradley, as well as losing the outlet up top with Jozy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 17, 2014, 02:46:08 PM

You have apparently bought into the hype as well.

Having worked for a NHL team for several years directly, and then indirectly working with all four major leagues the last 15 years....I don't think I have bought into any hype at all.  With all due respect.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Coleman on June 17, 2014, 02:46:20 PM
We had viewing parties as well.  No teal needed

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10442566_800433166641599_6859038495182484227_n.jpg)



Looks like about 1/10 the number of people in Grant Park
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 17, 2014, 02:47:07 PM
Agree, I've seen it said in several places that the US team didn't look fit and I think that is false and based off of a few hamstring items that in general are not fitness related.

I think the US got out-possessed not because of lack of fitness, but really because of poor performances from Beckerman and Bradley, as well as losing the outlet up top with Jozy.

Bradley sucked yesterday....absolutely agree.  They were chasing the ball a lot yesterday, and in those conditions that is tough. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MDMU04 on June 17, 2014, 04:12:54 PM
At the same time, there was another party going on.  Multitasking


(https://tribktla.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/parade-ph.jpg)

(http://3.cdn.nhle.com/kings/images/upload/gallery/2012/06/146350320_slide.jpg)

Go Ducks, eh Chicos?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 17, 2014, 04:31:58 PM
Go Ducks, eh Chicos?

Yup, for me.  My son and wife, Kings fans.  Who I cheered for against the racist Blackhawks...the Kings.  Who I cheered for against the Rangers, didn't particularly care but since I got to attend the series, it was pretty easy to cheer on the Kings.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 17, 2014, 04:35:55 PM
Looks like about 1/10 the number of people in Grant Park

Good thing you are judging by a picture.  1/10th....you got that all by a closed crop photo.  Interesting.

(http://nhne-pulse.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/appearances-can-be-deceiving.jpeg)


Though it wouldn't be totally unheard of.  The game was after 5:00pm in Chicago, the game was still during working hours out here.  Circumstances matter.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Coleman on June 17, 2014, 04:51:48 PM
Good thing you are judging by a picture.  1/10th....you got that all by a closed crop photo.  Interesting.

(http://nhne-pulse.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/appearances-can-be-deceiving.jpeg)


Though it wouldn't be totally unheard of.  The game was after 5:00pm in Chicago, the game was still during working hours out here.  Circumstances matter.

You supplied the picture. Give me a better one then.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 17, 2014, 05:09:40 PM
You supplied the picture. Give me a better one then.

Don't have one, that was taken from a coworker of mine that was down there...she sent it to me.  Again, I have no doubt more in Hyde Park.  LA folks still working when game stated, people at the Kings parade, lots of folks out here who ...ahem...allegiances are to their home country which...ahem....isn't where they are currently living....legally or otherwise.

Besides, I learned long ago when reports of the Million Man March having more like 500K not to trust a lot on crowd sizing by photos.  I recall John Kerry during the election of 2004, you would have thought 10 million people were at each location.  LOL.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 17, 2014, 07:36:26 PM
Why must you make everything political?  Don't you think you get enough attention already?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 17, 2014, 07:40:02 PM
Can we keep this thread clean? It's been so good for so long.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brandx on June 17, 2014, 07:50:20 PM
As a non-soccer fan, can some of the knowledgeable here give me their opinion on whether we can win another game?

I thought we were outplayed most of the game. I'm sure Ghana took many more shots and other than the last 10 - 15 minutes, I would guess they had the ball in our zone 75% of the time.

I need someone to tell me where I am wrong.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 17, 2014, 08:02:38 PM
As a non-soccer fan, can some of the knowledgeable here give me their opinion on whether we can win another game?

I thought we were outplayed most of the game. I'm sure Ghana took many more shots and other than the last 10 - 15 minutes, I would guess they had the ball in our zone 75% of the time.

I need someone to tell me where I am wrong.

It was an interesting game. Completely different than I expected, especially considering the Nigeria game. I would say we had to change our attacking strategy on-the-fly once Jozy went down. Besler was a little gimpy, as was Bedoya. Further, Bradley played like absolute dogcrap. All of these things combined to give us the 90+ we saw. Not to mention, Ghana is a good team.

So, when you think about all that, we still came away with 3 points. That's impressive in itself.

Portugal is hurting, through suspensions, injuries and mindset. I think we've got a good shot against them. Klins and the team will have to adjust tactically bigtime for Portugal, both because it's a completely different team/style and d/t our own injuries.

Personally, I'm hoping for a draw against Portugal, loss against Germany. That SHOULD be enough to get us out of the group.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Coleman on June 17, 2014, 08:58:52 PM

Personally, I'm hoping for a draw against Portugal, loss against Germany. That SHOULD be enough to get us out of the group.

That seems to be the consensus, and as long as our margin of loss against Germany is 2 or fewer goals we should be good to go. (Tiebreaker is goals +/- margin, and Portugal put themselves in a deep hole losing to Germany by 4 goals). Assuming we tie Portugal and they beat Ghana, that would be the tiebreaker.

That said, I think we have a really good chance to beat Portugal given the circumstances. It would be sweet to have advancing out of group play all wrapped up before we even play Germany. I also think Ghana is fully capable of beating Portugal. The only given in this Group is that Germany is going to win it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on June 18, 2014, 07:10:30 AM
With Contrero, Almeida, and Pepe out, the US should win, and they will.  And it will be a party in the USA, Jimmy Butler style.

(http://img.pandawhale.com/74737-miley-cyrus-USA-gif-slDO.gif)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 18, 2014, 08:39:08 AM
Portugal playing for their pride and lives....wounded animal.  I will be happy with draw in this game as I fear worse result.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 18, 2014, 08:54:19 AM
Portugal playing for their pride and lives....wounded animal.  I will be happy with draw in this game as I fear worse result.

Not only wounded animal but they have the best player in the world no matter how much his left knee is acting up. Individual brilliance can trump organization most any time and Ronaldo's dance through qualifying, most especially his outrageous performance in Sweden, is evidence enough.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 18, 2014, 08:55:21 AM
Portugal playing for their pride and lives....wounded animal.  I will be happy with draw in this game as I fear worse result.

And the US isn't?

There are reasons Portugal can win, namely the gaping hole at left back the US has. But playing for pride isn't one of them. Every team in the tournament does that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Coleman on June 18, 2014, 08:56:42 AM
Has there been an update on Altidore? Is he for sure out on Sunday?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 18, 2014, 09:09:19 AM
Has there been an update on Altidore? Is he for sure out on Sunday?

He is 99.999999% sure out for Sunday. Is he out for the tournament? We'll see.

http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/06/klinsmann-provides-altidore.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 18, 2014, 09:12:20 AM
And the US isn't?

There are reasons Portugal can win, namely the gaping hole at left back the US has. But playing for pride isn't one of them. Every team in the tournament does that.

Didn't say we aren't, but I don't have a good feeling right now about this game as a win.  I would take a draw happily.  Will be a tough game.  They aren't going to roll over this time.  What I saw of Portugal earlier this week, I would disagree with your statement that every team plays with pride.  As the announcers said, in the last 20 minutes they had totally given up playing.  No pride.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 18, 2014, 09:31:08 AM
The only given in this Group is that Germany is going to win it.

But what if Ghana ties Germany and the US beats Portugal?

It could happen, and it's not even that crazy!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 18, 2014, 09:57:19 AM
Didn't say we aren't, but I don't have a good feeling right now about this game as a win.  I would take a draw happily.  Will be a tough game.  They aren't going to roll over this time.  What I saw of Portugal earlier this week, I would disagree with your statement that every team plays with pride.  As the announcers said, in the last 20 minutes they had totally given up playing.  No pride.



Hoping for a draw, preferably a high scoring draw, with no injuries.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Coleman on June 18, 2014, 10:05:05 AM
preferably a high scoring draw,

What difference does that make?

Or do you just mean in terms of excitement?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 18, 2014, 10:15:43 AM
What difference does that make?

Or do you just mean in terms of excitement?

tie breakers. after goal differential.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 18, 2014, 12:27:46 PM
Christian Ronaldo may be out of the rest of the world cup
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on June 18, 2014, 01:16:27 PM
Christian Ronaldo may be out of the rest of the world cup


Ok, I need some twitter tracking on this....

World Cup 2014 ‏@TheFifaWorIdCup  43m
BREAKING: Multiple reports are coming out saying that Cristiano Ronaldo is OUT of the World Cup due to his injury.

Ahmed Morsy ‏@AhmedMorsy_  3m
Ronaldo reportedly pulled out of training, might be out of the #WorldCup, @richardajkeys cites multiple sources in #POR, #ESP, #ENG press.

Portugal fans be like. (Stolen from Fifa twitter account)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqbZ7_TCAAEgK6_.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Coleman on June 18, 2014, 01:30:52 PM
Christian Ronaldo may be out of the rest of the world cup

Holy Balls

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2661588/Cristiano-Ronaldo-limps-training-Portugals-World-Cup-goes-bad-worse.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 18, 2014, 01:40:07 PM
1. I doubt he will be out.

2. If he is, this will be a sure sign that we blow it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU111 on June 18, 2014, 02:03:44 PM
Holy Balls

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2661588/Cristiano-Ronaldo-limps-training-Portugals-World-Cup-goes-bad-worse.html

The Daily Mail's trash, so I don't trust anything they say.  I also find it humorous that the WSJ is making the jump from cutting training short with an iced knee to potentially missing the rest of the WC.  It would be great if he can't give it a go, but I would be very surprised if he doesn't at least come off of the bench in the second half.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 18, 2014, 02:15:14 PM
http://www.espnfc.us/fifa-world-cup/story/1891470/cristiano-ronaldo-exits-portugal-practice-early-with-ice-on-knee

"Ronaldo has frequently left training early to ice his knee over the past several weeks."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 18, 2014, 03:06:55 PM
1. I doubt he will be out.

2. If he is, this will be a sure sign that we blow it.

I don't believe it for a second.

If it comes Ronaldo can't play it is a great shame and puts an inordinate amount of pressure on the States which is to our detriment.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 18, 2014, 03:43:42 PM
Eventually Spain's reign had to end. But, good lord, it ends horribly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 18, 2014, 04:16:55 PM
http://www.espnfc.us/fifa-world-cup/story/1891470/cristiano-ronaldo-exits-portugal-practice-early-with-ice-on-knee

"Ronaldo has frequently left training early to ice his knee over the past several weeks."

A crunching tackle from Jermaine Jones might do the trick. He's due a yellow card.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: chren21 on June 19, 2014, 04:39:55 AM
A crunching tackle from Jermaine Jones might do the trick. He's due a yellow card.

No possible red cards.  Jones played by far the best game for us.  He's getting rave reviews on his performance.  We need him for another full 90.  But the key to us winning is Bradley playing like he normally does.  That was the worst performance out of him I can remember.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wildbillsb on June 19, 2014, 06:34:36 AM
I was lucky to see USA defeat a highly rated, but very tired-looking Portugal in Suwon Korea twelve years ago.  Up 3 nil, we then hung on by our fingernails to eke out a 3-2 win. 

Lighting can strike twice, can't it?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 19, 2014, 08:24:52 AM
Eventually Spain's reign had to end. But, good lord, it ends horribly.

I think it was Xabi Alonso who was quoted as saying they didn't find the necessary desire to enter a tournament with a winning mentality. No shock considering they've ruled the world for the last half decade and go down as arguably the greatest national team era in history.

They looked exhausted and unenthused. Between club and country these guys have played more than anyone else last five or six years and just like a Dwyane Wade or Kobe Bryant when your tournament runs add up to nearly another full season of competition that mind and body will break down.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on June 19, 2014, 08:51:14 AM

... just like a Dwyane Wade or Kobe Bryant when your tournament runs add up to nearly another full season of competition that mind and body will break down.


Bill Simmons agrees with you.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: NYWarrior on June 19, 2014, 08:59:27 AM
I think it was Xabi Alonso who was quoted as saying they didn't find the necessary desire to enter a tournament with a winning mentality. No shock considering they've ruled the world for the last half decade and go down as arguably the greatest national team era in history.


What an era, indeed.  A horrible ending to a spectacular run -- but the pain might only be temporary.  Spain won the U-21 title last summer, and while the next generation could never be on par with the greatness they'll follow -- La Roja should be poised to make a strong run at Euro 2016.  Koke and Thiago (who Pep is tuturing these days) jump in for Xavi and Iniesta at midfield  ... among many other promising players (Bartra, Tello, Isco).

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 20, 2014, 12:58:35 PM
With Costa Rica beating Italy today, teams from the Americas have now played 12 games against teams from outside and have won 10 of them. The only exceptions are Ecuador losing to Switzerland and Honduras losing to France.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 20, 2014, 12:58:53 PM
Holy Ticos. Mighty impressive showing thus far.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 20, 2014, 02:38:47 PM
Holy Ticos. Mighty impressive showing thus far.

CONCACAF represent
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: CTWarrior on June 20, 2014, 03:03:09 PM
But the key to us winning is Bradley playing like he normally does.  That was the worst performance out of him I can remember.

I'm glad somebody wrote this.  I know next to nothing about soccer and am not a fan of the sport but I really like the idea of a World Cup with so many countries so invested in it.  So I watched the game against Ghana nad thought that Bradley's play ranged from inconsequential to dreadful.  Despite what my eyes told me, the announcers praised him quite a bit and I chalked it up to "I just don't understand soccer."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: SaintPaulWarrior on June 20, 2014, 03:08:08 PM


The announcers I listened to were bashing him for a bad game.

England done.  Thank you Costa Rica.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brandx on June 20, 2014, 03:14:09 PM

The announcers I listened to were bashing him for a bad game.

England done.  Thank you Costa Rica.

To all my friends in CR, Congrats!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 77ncaachamps on June 21, 2014, 04:18:33 PM
Ghana-Germany ended in a tie. I'm fine with that because not only does it not let Germany feel uncomfortable with their situation it allows Ghana to wait on pins and needles for Sunday AND it gives the US the confidence to shut Portugal down and advance.

I'm wary of Portugal's prowess. If they do end up beating the US, I'd rather it be 1-0 than 3-0. After the Germany debacle, they have some making up to do and they are fully capable of doing so.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 22, 2014, 02:33:18 AM
Ghana-Germany ended in a tie. I'm fine with that because not only does it not let Germany feel uncomfortable with their situation it allows Ghana to wait on pins and needles for Sunday AND it gives the US the confidence to shut Portugal down and advance.

I'm wary of Portugal's prowess. If they do end up beating the US, I'd rather it be 1-0 than 3-0. After the Germany debacle, they have some making up to do and they are fully capable of doing so.

I am beyond nervous about this game.  Today's Germany outcome not good in my opinion.  If we win Sunday, then all is good.  If we draw, things get a lot tougher.  If we lose....ugh.  I think a totally different Portugal team shows up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 22, 2014, 09:29:00 AM
I am beyond nervous about this game.  Today's Germany outcome not good in my opinion.  If we win Sunday, then all is good.  If we draw, things get a lot tougher.  If we lose....ugh.  I think a totally different Portugal team shows up.

Literally and figuratively I presume with the injuries/suspension.

So often during qualifying Ronaldo was the reason Portugal succeeded. Even when he was playing well, they weren't all that impressive (as shown by needing the playoff to qualify). This is not an overly gifted squad. There is no true #9. Their midfield isn't as imposing as the hypes of their names would suggest. And even prior to the shuffling, their back four did not inspire confidence.

My feeling is that the one way Portugal finds a way on top to dictate play, especially with a hobbled Ronaldo, is if the US comes out tight and tentative knowing full well how close they are to advancing. As down as I am on the makeup of Portugal's squad they will have the sense to pick up on that tense feeling on the other side of the pitch and will gain the confidence necessary to eradicate thoughts of the Germany debacle.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 22, 2014, 05:06:08 PM
Not the desired start. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 22, 2014, 07:01:05 PM
...nor the desired ending.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 22, 2014, 07:04:55 PM
Sorry, but Bradley played poorly again in my opinion.  Better than last game, but still too many errors.  Forget the missed goal, even though that was huge.  That last goal, another giveaway by Bradley led to that final push.  He just hasn't been solid and at his position, he must play better.

Before the game started, I would have taken a draw, but that was a killer. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 22, 2014, 07:05:59 PM
Hand it to Ronaldo.  Clearly hurt but that last pass...wow...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 22, 2014, 07:35:16 PM
God just watched that last sequence.  All Bradley had to do is make the easy pass, but he tried to take it himself.  Brutal.

I think they had too many men forward too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 22, 2014, 07:43:06 PM
Bradley played poorly and Cameron was the goat on both Portugal goals.  Inexplicable and if it didn't sound so harsh, I'd say inexcusable. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 22, 2014, 07:46:58 PM
Jurgen was quick to swing his bratwurst around when it came to Donovan, will he do the same with Bradley? He was abject against Ghana, better today, but didn't have the discipline to see the game out.

I am fully prepared for a drubbing on Thursday, and a group stage exit.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 22, 2014, 07:48:51 PM
The US can play with Germany.  I doubt they lose big.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 22, 2014, 07:54:55 PM
The US can play with Germany.  I doubt they lose big.

Sure, they can play with them. They're also prone to mental lapses that the Germans will punish.

Pray for a Ghana-Portugal draw. That's the only way the US advances.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on June 22, 2014, 08:18:33 PM
This is Dempsey and Jones' team now. Bradley was largely ineffectual and almost looked uninvolved at times.  I agree , Chicos , he gave the ball away which led to the tie. All said a great US effort- 9 shots on goal in the first half, I recall
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: damuts222 on June 22, 2014, 08:32:34 PM
MUfan12 the US is still in the drivers seat. Even if US loses they beat Ghana and Portugals goal differential is still -4. The US is at plus 1. US would have to lose by several goals and either Portugal or Ghana would have to win by several goals for the US to not make it through.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 22, 2014, 08:47:25 PM
MUfan12 the US is still in the drivers seat. Even if US loses they beat Ghana and Portugals goal differential is still -4. The US is at plus 1. US would have to lose by several goals and either Portugal or Ghana would have to win by several goals for the US to not make it through.

I'm worried about tiebreaker #2 right now.

I'm a big Portugal fan on Thursday
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 22, 2014, 08:51:12 PM
God just watched that last sequence.  All Bradley had to do is make the easy pass, but he tried to take it himself.  Brutal.

I think they had too many men forward too.

Yup.  Not intelligent.

The last game, instead of taking it to the corner at the end, he tries to center it and allows Ghana to counter.

Have to know situation.  Maybe it is because I played midfield my whole life so I watch that position the most.  He's a quality player, but needs to be better.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 22, 2014, 09:51:13 PM
He's a quality player, but needs to be better.

If I closed my eyes I'd swear I was at a TC presser.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wildbill sb on June 22, 2014, 10:05:53 PM
Curses!  The ball-watching ghost of Jeff Agoos channeled by Geoff Cameron and Fabian Johnson AND the soft hospital passes by Michael (“I give a 100% every time I put on the uniform and go out on the pitch.  I have no regrets.”)  Have spoiled what should have been 3 points for the Red, White, and Blue against a very beatable Portugal.  Rats!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 22, 2014, 10:28:54 PM
Curses!  The ball-watching ghost of Jeff Agoos channeled by Geoff Cameron and Fabian Johnson AND the soft hospital passes by Michael (“I give a 100% every time I put on the uniform and go out on the pitch.  I have no regrets.”)  Have spoiled what should have been 3 points for the Red, White, and Blue against a very beatable Portugal.  Rats!

Cameron and Bradley have turned the group of death into the group of suicide.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 22, 2014, 11:09:59 PM
If I closed my eyes I'd swear I was at a TC presser.

You really should seek help.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 22, 2014, 11:16:38 PM
I was hoping Wondolowski, the Polish Red Skin, could have salted it away there at the end.  That would have been epic.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2014, 08:07:52 AM
I think you guys need to go back and watch the wide angle version of the last sequence.  Does Bradley deserve a little blame?  Yes, if he one touches a pass back or just focuses on trapping the ball we aren't talking about anything but how awesome it is to have no pressure.  But his misplay occurred 10 yards from midfield on the Portugal side of the field...hardly an inherently dangerous position.

If you look at the entire field when Portugal gets the ball, there are more US players back than Portugal players forward.  In fact, Cameron, Gonzales and Johnson are all within 5-10 yards of Valera and Beasley is within 2 yards of Ronaldo.  Cameron, especially, loses his mark....but it should have been Gonzales marking Valera(fresh legs vs fresh legs) but I definitely put more on Cameron than Bradley.

But I actually blame Tim Howard by far the most.  I have played goalkeeper at very high levels, and I will tell you flat out that Howard completely choked at the end of the game.  It was an outstanding cross from Ronaldo, but he launched it from at least 25 yards out and Howard had to know the only threat in front of him was Valera.  There is no reason a cross from 25 yards out should get to the only attacker in sight 7 yards in front of the goal without the keeper contesting.  Hell, at my fitness level and age I could have gotten to that ball easily and caught, wasn't even one that would have required a punching clear.  That cross was about as routine as could be for a keeper.  You'd have thought Howard was tethered to goalline....you can even ask my wife as the cross was in the air I was scream about why wasn't Howard coming off his line.  So if you guys want to blame anyone blame Howard.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jsglow on June 23, 2014, 08:22:10 AM
I think you guys need to go back and watch the wide angle version of the last sequence.  Does Bradley deserve a little blame?  Yes, if he one touches a pass back or just focuses on trapping the ball we aren't talking about anything but how awesome it is to have no pressure.  But his misplay occurred 10 yards from midfield on the Portugal side of the field...hardly an inherently dangerous position.

If you look at the entire field when Portugal gets the ball, there are more US players back than Portugal players forward.  In fact, Cameron, Gonzales and Johnson are all within 5-10 yards of Valera and Beasley is within 2 yards of Ronaldo.  Cameron, especially, loses his mark....but it should have been Gonzales marking Valera(fresh legs vs fresh legs) but I definitely put more on Cameron than Bradley.

But I actually blame Tim Howard by far the most.  I have played goalkeeper at very high levels, and I will tell you flat out that Howard completely choked at the end of the game.  It was an outstanding cross from Ronaldo, but he launched it from at least 25 yards out and Howard had to know the only threat in front of him was Valera.  There is no reason a cross from 25 yards out should get to the only attacker in sight 7 yards in front of the goal without the keeper contesting.  Hell, at my fitness level and age I could have gotten to that ball easily and caught, wasn't even one that would have required a punching clear.  That cross was about as routine as could be for a keeper.  You'd have thought Howard was tethered to goalline....you can even ask my wife as the cross was in the air I was scream about why wasn't Howard coming off his line.  So if you guys want to blame anyone blame Howard.

Thanks so much for the analysis.  Having watched nothing but youth soccer as a dad or Marquette down in the valley, I was having the same thought.  Unfortunately the whole team thought it was in the bag and was already mentally checked out.  But I have to admit that I don't think I've ever seen a better cross.  Too bad because I really came to dislike that pretty-boy cry-baby Ronaldo during the course of the game.  Now I have to cheer for him on Thursday.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 23, 2014, 08:23:39 AM
Brutal start, brutal end, great 80 minutes in between. Before the cup started, if you told me we'd have 4 points after the first two games, we all would have taken it. A draw feels like a loss, sure, but did we really earn it against Ghana? Seems everything evened out.

Who do you blame the last goal on? Does it matter? Sure, Bradley turned the ball over - literally anything else he does, we in. But, we had way more men behind the ball. Beasley can't afford to attack Ronaldo, Besler has to back up Beasley. Now you've got Cameron and Omar in the middle. Cameron never saw Valera, he was looking at the trailing Portugese guy the whole time. In fact, if you watch the cross, Cameron was surprised where it was heading. Is it Omar's fault? Maybe. Should Howard have done something? Probably. It was a great cross and a great finish. It happens.

Still hold our own fate. Get a result vs. Germany. Want to prove we belong? Gotta do it at some point, whether it's Thursday against Germany or next round against Belgium/Russia/Algeria.

IMO, Ghana can and probably will beat Portugal, and maybe rather easily.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 23, 2014, 08:28:37 AM
US would have to lose by several goals and either Portugal or Ghana would have to win by several goals for the US to not make it through.

US loses 2-0. Ghana wins by a goal. Ghana goes through.

The margin is razor thin for them. Just have a bad feeling that yesterday was the chance.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 23, 2014, 08:53:26 AM
Just on this small sample it goes to show how varied perspectives can be from the play.

I thought Bradley played fine yesterday. Not sure where in all the criticism of him people ignore that he was a main cog in a midfield that overran Portugal for nearly 70 minutes. 99 of 100 balls from his spot go in the net. Just happened this one hit Costa's knee (who knew nothing about it). And, sure, Eder muscled him off the ball in Portugal's half but as rightly pointed out above the US was covered so well in the back it never seemed a dangerous moment until the ball was in net. Hell, who in their right mind would think Ronaldo would ever turn down the chance to take a defender (an old converted mid at that) on 1v1 in that spot?

Hadn't seen much on the Howard angle which was interesting from mu03eng. But I probably blocked it out because Howard made that game saving double save in the first half to keep it 1-0. For my money if you pin it on one guy, it has to be Cameron. For there to be only one opposition player in the box and a defender not have a clue to find him is nearly inconceivable. Throw in a grade school level clearance in the fifth minute and Cameron should be in hiding.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2014, 09:01:52 AM
Who do you blame the last goal on? Does it matter?

This is ultimately correct

Now you've got Cameron and Omar in the middle. Cameron never saw Valera, he was looking at the trailing Portugese guy the whole time. In fact, if you watch the cross, Cameron was surprised where it was heading. Is it Omar's fault?

Actually this part is on Howard as well.  As the keeper you are controlling the defense and there were only two threats at all during that sequence, Ronaldo and Valera.  Howard has to be telling Gonzales and Cameron who to mark and where to be.

Oh well, I think a lot of the hang wringing and teeth mashing is a lot of new fans to the game.  The US will go through and will get at least a draw with Germany.  If the two Portugal goals were in the 23rd and 65th minutes instead of 5th and 95th nobody is upset really.  The US played absolutely beautiful soccer against a very class team.  If they play like that against Germany, the only thing that stops them is bad luck
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 23, 2014, 09:12:27 AM
Oh well, I think a lot of the hang wringing and teeth mashing is a lot of new fans to the game.

Or those who have followed long enough to have that sense of dread when it comes to the national team.  ;)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 23, 2014, 09:21:54 AM
Or those who have followed long enough to have that sense of dread when it comes to the national team.  ;)

Speaking of dread, how fun is it the US could win the group and play Algeria or Russia in the Round of 16? Or, you know, be eliminated.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 23, 2014, 09:25:22 AM
I don't know a great deal about soccer, but this seems to me to be a different US national team than previous World Cup appearances.  They are faster and don't seem to settle for home run lobs than previous versions did.  Put it this way, when I see this team play, they look a lot more like what I see from EPL teams than what previous national teams did.

Even if it doesn't work out for the US, I think Klinnsman has been a breath of fresh air and really knows what he is doing to make the US more competitive on the international stage.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 23, 2014, 09:41:13 AM
Just on this small sample it goes to show how varied perspectives can be from the play.

I thought Bradley played fine yesterday. Not sure where in all the criticism of him people ignore that he was a main cog in a midfield that overran Portugal for nearly 70 minutes. 99 of 100 balls from his spot go in the net. Just happened this one hit Costa's knee (who knew nothing about it). And, sure, Eder muscled him off the ball in Portugal's half but as rightly pointed out above the US was covered so well in the back it never seemed a dangerous moment until the ball was in net. Hell, who in their right mind would think Ronaldo would ever turn down the chance to take a defender (an old converted mid at that) on 1v1 in that spot?

Hadn't seen much on the Howard angle which was interesting from mu03eng. But I probably blocked it out because Howard made that game saving double save in the first half to keep it 1-0. For my money if you pin it on one guy, it has to be Cameron. For there to be only one opposition player in the box and a defender not have a clue to find him is nearly inconceivable. Throw in a grade school level clearance in the fifth minute and Cameron should be in hiding.

Missed an open net and committed a crucial giveaway.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 23, 2014, 09:43:17 AM
I think you guys need to go back and watch the wide angle version of the last sequence.  Does Bradley deserve a little blame?  Yes, if he one touches a pass back or just focuses on trapping the ball we aren't talking about anything but how awesome it is to have no pressure.  But his misplay occurred 10 yards from midfield on the Portugal side of the field...hardly an inherently dangerous position.

If you look at the entire field when Portugal gets the ball, there are more US players back than Portugal players forward.  In fact, Cameron, Gonzales and Johnson are all within 5-10 yards of Valera and Beasley is within 2 yards of Ronaldo.  Cameron, especially, loses his mark....but it should have been Gonzales marking Valera(fresh legs vs fresh legs) but I definitely put more on Cameron than Bradley.

But I actually blame Tim Howard by far the most.  I have played goalkeeper at very high levels, and I will tell you flat out that Howard completely choked at the end of the game.  It was an outstanding cross from Ronaldo, but he launched it from at least 25 yards out and Howard had to know the only threat in front of him was Valera.  There is no reason a cross from 25 yards out should get to the only attacker in sight 7 yards in front of the goal without the keeper contesting.  Hell, at my fitness level and age I could have gotten to that ball easily and caught, wasn't even one that would have required a punching clear.  That cross was about as routine as could be for a keeper.  You'd have thought Howard was tethered to goalline....you can even ask my wife as the cross was in the air I was scream about why wasn't Howard coming off his line.  So if you guys want to blame anyone blame Howard.
  Ronaldo was given to much time but, Valera beat Cameron to the cross. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2014, 09:53:21 AM
Missed an open net and committed a crucial giveaway.

Didn't miss an open net, was blocked by a defender(by definition not an open net).  Bradley struck a one time shot to the heart of the goal on a bouncing ball 10 yards from the goal that came off a deflection and a diving defend managed to get his knee cap on that ball.  Could he have done better, yes, but it was a good effort.

I'm not going to defend the crap out of Bradley, he's played below his standards but you have to look at the game in total.  Go back and watch his distribution.  He was absolutely feeding Fabian Johnson and Dempsey to stretch the defense and Portugal had to make a defensive substitution (Williams) to try and limit Bradley's and Jones' possession and creativity.  Again if Bradley's give-away happens in the 65th minute this laser focus isn't there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 23, 2014, 10:06:29 AM
I don't know a great deal about soccer, but this seems to me to be a different US national team than previous World Cup appearances.  They are faster and don't seem to settle for home run lobs than previous versions did.  Put it this way, when I see this team play, they look a lot more like what I see from EPL teams than what previous national teams did.

Even if it doesn't work out for the US, I think Klinnsman has been a breath of fresh air and really knows what he is doing to make the US more competitive on the international stage.

This was incredibly put on display with the Yedlin sub. Playing a 20 y/o raw, athletic freak as an outside mid, no less. Absolutely pushing the right buttons with the subs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2014, 10:07:43 AM
I don't know a great deal about soccer, but this seems to me to be a different US national team than previous World Cup appearances.  They are faster and don't seem to settle for home run lobs than previous versions did.  Put it this way, when I see this team play, they look a lot more like what I see from EPL teams than what previous national teams did.

Even if it doesn't work out for the US, I think Klinnsman has been a breath of fresh air and really knows what he is doing to make the US more competitive on the international stage.

Could not agree with this more.  Also keep in mind there are only 5 players on this roster that have WC experience.  They most than likely get through but they also prepare the US to be one of the teams to beat in 2018.

Look at Yedlin....that was a brilliant move to bring him in as a winger.  The now and the future are bright
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 23, 2014, 10:08:34 AM
Just on this small sample it goes to show how varied perspectives can be from the play.

I thought Bradley played fine yesterday. Not sure where in all the criticism of him people ignore that he was a main cog in a midfield that overran Portugal for nearly 70 minutes. 99 of 100 balls from his spot go in the net. Just happened this one hit Costa's knee (who knew nothing about it). And, sure, Eder muscled him off the ball in Portugal's half but as rightly pointed out above the US was covered so well in the back it never seemed a dangerous moment until the ball was in net. Hell, who in their right mind would think Ronaldo would ever turn down the chance to take a defender (an old converted mid at that) on 1v1 in that spot?

Hadn't seen much on the Howard angle which was interesting from mu03eng. But I probably blocked it out because Howard made that game saving double save in the first half to keep it 1-0. For my money if you pin it on one guy, it has to be Cameron. For there to be only one opposition player in the box and a defender not have a clue to find him is nearly inconceivable. Throw in a grade school level clearance in the fifth minute and Cameron should be in hiding.


Bradley played better yesterday than the first game, but that isn't saying much.  I've always been the believer that center mid is the most important position on the field, not everyone agrees.  He's been lazy with passes this tournament, poor decision making, panicky at times, just not what I expect from a center mid.  I've seen him play many times, and he's a quality player so I don't know if he has the jitters, or what. 

To me this is about what expectations are for players.  Of course Cameron made a terrible play, but he rebounded to play well most of the rest of the game.  Cameron isn't the quality of Bradley either.  How Bradley missed that goal is still beyond me.  Wow.  Ultimately, it's the decision making that has me perplexed.  He's the QB out there, but he isn't playing like one. 

It's also about knowing the game situation.  You now there are 5 minutes in stoppage time, you know you are in the last minute.  Pass the damn ball.  It would be like watching a MU player with ball in hand up by 2 and 10 seconds left with 20 on the clock and we take a shot.  Mental farts.  Disappointing play. 

As for Howard, always some risk coming off your line and you don't want to get burned by a misjudgment that late in the game.  Overall, Howard had a few miscues in this game, the post saved him once.  We need to be smarter, understand the point in the game we are in.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 23, 2014, 10:10:02 AM
Didn't miss an open net, was blocked by a defender(by definition not an open net).  Bradley struck a one time shot to the heart of the goal on a bouncing ball 10 yards from the goal that came off a deflection and a diving defend managed to get his knee cap on that ball.  Could he have done better, yes, but it was a good effort.

I'm not going to defend the crap out of Bradley, he's played below his standards but you have to look at the game in total.  Go back and watch his distribution.  He was absolutely feeding Fabian Johnson and Dempsey to stretch the defense and Portugal had to make a defensive substitution (Williams) to try and limit Bradley's and Jones' possession and creativity.  Again if Bradley's give-away happens in the 65th minute this laser focus isn't there.

Thing is, it wasn't the 65th minute and tactics change.  When you're up one in soccer with less than a minute to play, you need to play keep away. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 23, 2014, 10:16:23 AM
Lost in the draw is a point I've seen a few folks make. Yesterday was arguably the best performance the US has ever had in a world cup.

Sure, the late equalizer is a stomach punch. But screw it... the team played in a way that made me feel proud yesterday.

I'm excited to watch the US play against Germany. I'm confident the team is going to play well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 23, 2014, 10:30:37 AM
Lost in the draw is a point I've seen a few folks make. Yesterday was arguably the best performance the US has ever had in a world cup.

Sure, the late equalizer is a stomach punch. But screw it... the team played in a way that made me feel proud yesterday.

Very true. Yesterday should have been their finest hour. It's a shame, really.

Maybe I'm a touch prone to hyperbole here, but getting a result Thursday and advancing might be the most impressive accomplishment in US Soccer history. 2002 is up there, but they backed in to the round of 16, and faced a familiar foe. They will have earned every bit of this if they advance.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2014, 10:32:22 AM
[quote author=ChicosBailBonds link=topic=27124.msg633584#msg633584 date=1403536114
As for Howard, always some risk coming off your line and you don't want to get burned by a misjudgment that late in the game.  Overall, Howard had a few miscues in this game, the post saved him once.  We need to be smarter, understand the point in the game we are in.
[/quote]

Are you counting a sniper in the stands as a risk?  That was as routine a cross that the keeper should gobble up as you will ever see.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 23, 2014, 10:52:17 AM
I love the Men in Blazers

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/men-in-blazers/95/post/1904962/us-very-much-alive-in-the-world-cup (http://www.espnfc.com/blog/men-in-blazers/95/post/1904962/us-very-much-alive-in-the-world-cup)

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 23, 2014, 10:59:59 AM
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/world-cup-pass-move-i-cant-believe-that-we-did-draw/

An interesting take that Bradley's mistake wasn't so much mental as physical:

"Given a difficult ball to trap, Bradley’s first touch isn’t great and the ball gets away from him. He has to try to claim the ball at the second time of asking, at which point the Portuguese midfield has already closed in on him. It would have been exceedingly difficult for Bradley to boot the ball somewhere safe in that moment, and there was no guarantee an attempt to kick the hell out of the ball would have put it anywhere safe, given that he was all but facing the U.S. goal. Attempting to win possession, Bradley got muscled off the ball by a stronger player, which led to a Portuguese counter. It was a disappointing performance at a crucial time, but it was a physical mistake, not a mental one. More than likely, Bradley — who ran 7.6 miles during the match, more than anybody else on the pitch — was gassed."

Go look at the gif of it.

Would have been real interesting if Bradley would have gone down there, seeing if he could draw a foul.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2014, 11:07:21 AM
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/world-cup-pass-move-i-cant-believe-that-we-did-draw/

An interesting take that Bradley's mistake wasn't so much mental as physical:

"Given a difficult ball to trap, Bradley’s first touch isn’t great and the ball gets away from him. He has to try to claim the ball at the second time of asking, at which point the Portuguese midfield has already closed in on him. It would have been exceedingly difficult for Bradley to boot the ball somewhere safe in that moment, and there was no guarantee an attempt to kick the hell out of the ball would have put it anywhere safe, given that he was all but facing the U.S. goal. Attempting to win possession, Bradley got muscled off the ball by a stronger player, which led to a Portuguese counter. It was a disappointing performance at a crucial time, but it was a physical mistake, not a mental one. More than likely, Bradley — who ran 7.6 miles during the match, more than anybody else on the pitch — was gassed."

Go look at the gif of it.

Would have been real interesting if Bradley would have gone down there, seeing if he could draw a foul.

Hadn't read that article yet, but that is absolutely what I was thinking as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 23, 2014, 11:08:48 AM
Also, fun fact, the 4th official was only going to add 4 minutes of ET. But, when Zusi was subbed off, the ref decided he walked off so slowly as to add a 5th minute.

So, I blame Zusi's lazy ass
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 23, 2014, 11:12:18 AM
US loses 2-0. Ghana wins by a goal. Ghana goes through.

The margin is razor thin for them. Just have a bad feeling that yesterday was the chance.

So goal differential still matters more than Team USA beating Ghana head-to-head? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 23, 2014, 11:16:32 AM
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/world-cup-pass-move-i-cant-believe-that-we-did-draw/

An interesting take that Bradley's mistake wasn't so much mental as physical:

"Given a difficult ball to trap, Bradley’s first touch isn’t great and the ball gets away from him. He has to try to claim the ball at the second time of asking, at which point the Portuguese midfield has already closed in on him. It would have been exceedingly difficult for Bradley to boot the ball somewhere safe in that moment, and there was no guarantee an attempt to kick the hell out of the ball would have put it anywhere safe, given that he was all but facing the U.S. goal. Attempting to win possession, Bradley got muscled off the ball by a stronger player, which led to a Portuguese counter. It was a disappointing performance at a crucial time, but it was a physical mistake, not a mental one. More than likely, Bradley — who ran 7.6 miles during the match, more than anybody else on the pitch — was gassed."

Go look at the gif of it.

Would have been real interesting if Bradley would have gone down there, seeing if he could draw a foul.

Roberto Martinez said the same. 50/50 ball and no problem its lost because the US had five players back to recover. I think you see the American tendency in other sports coming into play here so we can focus on one individual and one particular moment as "the" mistake. As Cobi Jones said on beIN sports, when you concede like that at the end it's more a domino of minor mistakes that roll into one big mistake.

For example, why no hate for Yedlin not taking ball to corner immediately? Why no hate for Gonzo being in midfield rather than part of a back five? Why no hate for Beckerman reacting slowly and not tracking back? Why no hate for Beasley sagging off Ronaldo allowing him the time? These are all minor issues that rolled into the mistake of conceding late. On their own, not terrible. Together, devastating.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 23, 2014, 11:19:58 AM
So goal differential still matters more than Team USA beating Ghana head-to-head? 

Goal differential is tiebreaker #1.
Head to head is tiebreaker #2.

...i think
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2014, 11:20:20 AM
So goal differential still matters more than Team USA beating Ghana head-to-head? 

HtH is the tie breaker after goal differential
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2014, 11:20:51 AM
Goal differential is tiebreaker #1.
Head to head is tiebreaker #2.

...i think

Correct....and faster  ;D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 23, 2014, 11:23:02 AM
HtH is the tie breaker after goal differential

Goals scored is after differential.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 23, 2014, 11:27:05 AM
[quote author=ChicosBailBonds link=topic=27124.msg633584#msg633584 date=1403536114
As for Howard, always some risk coming off your line and you don't want to get burned by a misjudgment that late in the game.  Overall, Howard had a few miscues in this game, the post saved him once.  We need to be smarter, understand the point in the game we are in.


Are you counting a sniper in the stands as a risk?  That was as routine a cross that the keeper should gobble up as you will ever see.

I didn't think anything about that cross was routine, in my opinion. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 23, 2014, 11:28:06 AM
Goals scored is after differential.

That's my understanding as well, which is why I said yesterday the #2 tiebreaker scares me.  

EDIT:
Here are the official tiebreakers directly from FIFA

1. Greatest number of points obtained in all group matches.

2. Goal difference in all group matches.

3. Greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

4. Greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned.

5. Goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned.

6. Greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned.

7. Drawing of lots by the FIFA Organizing Committee.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on June 23, 2014, 11:29:48 AM
FIFA organization’s book of regulations:

1. Greatest number of points obtained in all group matches.

2. Goal difference in all group matches.

3. Greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

4. Greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned.

5. Goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned.

6. Greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned.

7. Drawing of lots by the FIFA Organizing Committee.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2014, 12:27:12 PM
I didn't think anything about that cross was routine, in my opinion. 

Go back and watch it again....Howard takes at least 3 steps if not 4 before the ball gets to Valera.  If those steps are forward(first was) he easily gets to the ball.  It was a beautiful cross and if there is a lot of traffic an extremely dangerous one.  But a cross from 25 yards to the far post landing around 7 yards from the end line with no traffic in front of the keeper whatsoever....no matter how beautiful the cross it is routine.  I could make that play in the clothes I'm wearing right now including my dress shoes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 23, 2014, 12:43:59 PM
Go back and watch it again....Howard takes at least 3 steps if not 4 before the ball gets to Valera.  If those steps are forward(first was) he easily gets to the ball.  It was a beautiful cross and if there is a lot of traffic an extremely dangerous one.  But a cross from 25 yards to the far post landing around 7 yards from the end line with no traffic in front of the keeper whatsoever....no matter how beautiful the cross it is routine.  I could make that play in the clothes I'm wearing right now including my dress shoes.

http://www.espnfc.us/video/highlights/114/video/1904113/varela-scores-last-gasp-leveller

Here's the play, the ball is curling back. I don't think Howard gets there in time.  Too close of a call because if he doesn't get there, he's screwed.  That cross gets there in a hurry, has pace on it and curls back.  IMO, don't think Howard gets there.  IMO
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 23, 2014, 12:49:04 PM
Lost in the draw is a point I've seen a few folks make. Yesterday was arguably the best performance the US has ever had in a world cup.

Sure, the late equalizer is a stomach punch. But screw it... the team played in a way that made me feel proud yesterday.

I'm excited to watch the US play against Germany. I'm confident the team is going to play well.

This. 

It was so fun watching us be the aggressor.  We were pounding the Portugal goal with shot after shot instead of teams past relying on counter attacks and set pieces.

Germany will be really tough, but after this game now I feel like a draw is very doable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2014, 01:05:57 PM
http://www.espnfc.us/video/highlights/114/video/1904113/varela-scores-last-gasp-leveller

Here's the play, the ball is curling back. I don't think Howard gets there in time.  Too close of a call because if he doesn't get there, he's screwed.  That cross gets there in a hurry, has pace on it and curls back.  IMO, don't think Howard gets there.  IMO

Pause the replay at 25 seconds.  Look at where the ball is(from Howard's perspective he can know the trajectory) where Valera is and where Howard is.  Howard has 5 yards to cover in the same time Valera has at least 10...yes Valera is at speed but Howard has 4 steps, his entire length and his hands.  The ball was flat vertically and driven(to get the pace) which means Howard doesn't have to jump on it.  Plus his instinct was to go, that was his first step but then he backed off.  We may just have to agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 23, 2014, 01:19:18 PM
Watching that replay again a few times confirms my earlier suspicions --> Cameron had NO IDEA Varela was there. Cameron took a couple quick glances back at the trailing Portugese players, but Varela was behind/above Cameron until the last second. Poor communication from Howard, Fabian and Cameron there. Not sure if the US back 4 zones up on crosses, in which case Cameron should have covered (but someone also needed to tell Cameron Varela was coming) or they man on crosses, which means Fabian should have been tracking on Varela.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 23, 2014, 01:22:30 PM
Also, here's a handy chart for the US scenarios.

(http://i.imgur.com/PTK7tOJ.png)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 23, 2014, 01:37:08 PM
Pause the replay at 25 seconds.  Look at where the ball is(from Howard's perspective he can know the trajectory) where Valera is and where Howard is.  Howard has 5 yards to cover in the same time Valera has at least 10...yes Valera is at speed but Howard has 4 steps, his entire length and his hands.  The ball was flat vertically and driven(to get the pace) which means Howard doesn't have to jump on it.  Plus his instinct was to go, that was his first step but then he backed off.  We may just have to agree to disagree.

I guess we have to disagree.  I see him take one step forward and then only lateral steps, but I wouldn't even call that first step as a commitment, it looked more like a rounding to be able to pivot to his right.  As a keeper, you have to be absolutely certain you can get there which I believe he felt he couldn't.

Lots of blame on that play, unfortunate.  Like other sports, plenty of plays throughout the game could have made a difference.

Take care of Germany. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 23, 2014, 01:58:38 PM
Ugh, such a basic trap.  

(http://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/zeigkg.gif?w=576&h=322)


But I agree, the defense had 5 guys back against two attackers....need to body up and prevent that from happening.


Bill Simmons Opines:

Bill Simmons: Here’s my take Sunday night six hours after my first-ever stomach-punch draw …

People are making a big deal about soccer breaking through in America, thanks to the 2014 World Cup. It’s horsecrap, because if this were true, our entire country would be traumatized right now. How do we let that guy behind us for Ronaldo’s desperation cross? How? Did Klinsmann sub in Rahim Moore at the 92-minute mark and I missed it? Miracle soccer goals should have high degrees of difficulty — think Megan Rapinoe to Abby Wambach in 2011, a play that had to go absolutely perfectly in like six different ways just to have a chance to work. Portugal’s second goal was your basic world-class cross coupled with a multi-defender collapse and a well-done header, which would have been fine, you know, except we were 25 seconds away from advancing to the next unnatural carnal knowledgeing round. If I watch one more person on TV say, “If you told me before the tournament we’d have four points after two games, I would have taken it,” I’m gonna throw up. We outplayed them and we choked. We could be spending our Monday making Ronaldo jokes, watching YouTube clips of American sports bars reacting to our go-ahead goal, and wondering who would win a fight between Clint Dempsey and Liam Neeson. This sucks.


Can't get enough of this gif.

(http://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/jermaine-jones.gif?w=575&h=312)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 23, 2014, 02:01:17 PM
Man if he just handles that first touch better...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on June 23, 2014, 02:08:11 PM
I am terrified of Karma:

The Panamanian witch-doctors caused the stoppage time Portugal goal, hopefully their powers are used up.

http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/05/08/13/10/mnt-vs-panama-highlights--oct-15-2013
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 23, 2014, 02:09:44 PM
I am terrified of Karma:

The Panamanian witch-doctors caused the stoppage time Portugal goal, hopefully their powers are used up.

http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/05/08/13/10/mnt-vs-panama-highlights--oct-15-2013


I remember the announcers saying 4 minutes of stoppage time yesterday, then all of a sudden they made it 5. Not sure what changed, perhaps that last substitution at around the 90 minute mark?  Would have liked it to be 4.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2014, 02:10:45 PM
Man if he just handles that first touch better...

That is just pure exhaustion I think with just a dash of mental relaxation too soon.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on June 23, 2014, 02:17:26 PM
I remember the announcers saying 4 minutes of stoppage time yesterday, then all of a sudden they made it 5. Not sure what changed, perhaps that last substitution at around the 90 minute mark?  Would have liked it to be 4.
I think the added minute was due to Zusi taking (at least) 45 seconds to get off the field @ 90'
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 23, 2014, 02:19:49 PM
I think the added minute was due to Zusi taking (at least) 45 seconds to get off the field @ 90'

That was my guess as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 23, 2014, 02:22:38 PM
Didn't miss an open net, was blocked by a defender(by definition not an open net).  Bradley struck a one time shot to the heart of the goal on a bouncing ball 10 yards from the goal that came off a deflection and a diving defend managed to get his knee cap on that ball.  Could he have done better, yes, but it was a good effort.

I'm not going to defend the crap out of Bradley, he's played below his standards but you have to look at the game in total.  Go back and watch his distribution.  He was absolutely feeding Fabian Johnson and Dempsey to stretch the defense and Portugal had to make a defensive substitution (Williams) to try and limit Bradley's and Jones' possession and creativity.  Again if Bradley's give-away happens in the 65th minute this laser focus isn't there.
was unable (missed) to put his shot between either post and the defender who was centrally located and unable to use his hands.  First rule of shooting, put your shot in the middle of the picture frame.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 23, 2014, 02:26:42 PM
Lost in the draw is a point I've seen a few folks make. Yesterday was arguably the best performance the US has ever had in a world cup.

Sure, the late equalizer is a stomach punch. But screw it... the team played in a way that made me feel proud yesterday.

I'm excited to watch the US play against Germany. I'm confident the team is going to play well.
  The Portugal win in 1994 was better and eliminating Mexico to get to the round of 16 cannot be overlooked.  And, US was playing a weak Portugal yesterday beset with injuries and missing players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 23, 2014, 02:32:38 PM
TV ratings were massive... 18.2 million on ESPN, and another 6.5 million on Univision.

http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2014/06/usa-portugal-most-viewed-soccer-match-ever-in-u-s/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: NYWarrior on June 23, 2014, 02:36:43 PM
That was my guess as well.

Twellman confirms (I guess)

https://twitter.com/TaylorTwellman/status/480871079968505856 (https://twitter.com/TaylorTwellman/status/480871079968505856)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: NYWarrior on June 23, 2014, 02:37:56 PM
  The Portugal win in 1994 was better and eliminating Mexico to get to the round of 16 cannot be overlooked.  And, US was playing a weak Portugal yesterday beset with injuries and missing players.

of course the US itself was a team beset with injuries (Dempsey) & missing players (Altidore)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on June 23, 2014, 02:41:51 PM
TV ratings were massive... 18.2 million on ESPN, and another 6.5 million on Univision.

http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2014/06/usa-portugal-most-viewed-soccer-match-ever-in-u-s/

Impressive, though wonder how much a negligible time zone offset helped the numbers. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 23, 2014, 03:02:02 PM
I remember the announcers saying 4 minutes of stoppage time yesterday, then all of a sudden they made it 5. Not sure what changed, perhaps that last substitution at around the 90 minute mark?  Would have liked it to be 4.

I pointed this out on the previous page
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 23, 2014, 03:18:14 PM
It's all about the yanks, and always will be.  Leave for Manaus on Thursday.  Can't wait.

Looking forward to hearing about your trip.  When the national anthem was sung and the Americans seemed to be in full throat in the stands, that was quite cool.  You guys represented well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on June 23, 2014, 04:35:07 PM
I know they are our sworn enemies, rivals, etc. - but I am really enjoying watching Mexico.  Great energy, great crowd, great goal celebrations today.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 23, 2014, 04:38:15 PM
  The Portugal win in 1994 was better and eliminating Mexico to get to the round of 16 cannot be overlooked.  And, US was playing a weak Portugal yesterday beset with injuries and missing players.

The Portugal win was in the 2002 WC, the big win in 94 was against Colombia.

I would agree that the win might have been a little more of an upset as that Portugal team was better and that USA team was not as talented as this one, but as far as performances go, I thought that this game was the best I have seen the USMNT play.  Not just final score, but actual performance.

Example, beating Spain in the Confederations Cup 2-0 was arguably the greatest USMNT win of all time.  But if you watch that game, it really wasn't a great performance.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on June 23, 2014, 04:41:15 PM
I know they are our sworn enemies, rivals, etc. - but I am really enjoying watching Mexico.  Great energy, great crowd, great goal celebrations today.

And again.  One more and they have GD on Brazil.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 77ncaachamps on June 23, 2014, 05:32:14 PM
Twellman confirms (I guess)

https://twitter.com/TaylorTwellman/status/480871079968505856 (https://twitter.com/TaylorTwellman/status/480871079968505856)


So it was Zusi who walked off slowly (probably to waste time) or his sub walking on the pitch slowly?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 23, 2014, 05:49:39 PM

So it was Zusi who walked off slowly (probably to waste time) or his sub walking on the pitch slowly?

Sub can't walk on until Zusi gets off, at least not supposed to.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 23, 2014, 07:35:56 PM
Is a flow chart easier for you?

(http://i.imgur.com/HBqs3zd.png)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 24, 2014, 01:13:30 PM
Luis Suarez is back to biting people again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 24, 2014, 02:22:20 PM
Luis Suarez is back to biting people again.

The dude can play...but he also has some serious issues.  I'd be pretty surprised if he gets to play anymore in this WC.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 25, 2014, 08:44:13 AM
How do you think the US lines up tomorrow?

I'm guessing the side is unchanged from Sunday, but wonder about some fitness levels. Beasley played the entirety of two games in brutal conditions. I'd also consider Yedlin in the midfield role he played as a sub on Sunday. With Germany playing a high line, his pace could be disruptive.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 25, 2014, 08:54:46 AM
How do you think the US lines up tomorrow?

I'm guessing the side is unchanged from Sunday, but wonder about some fitness levels. Beasley played the entirety of two games in brutal conditions. I'd also consider Yedlin in the midfield role he played as a sub on Sunday. With Germany playing a high line, his pace could be disruptive.

I'm guessing its similar to Sundays lineup.  One player that hasn't impressed me all that much that I could see starting on the bench is Bedoya.  Wouldn't be surprised to see Klinnsman insert Mix there.  There's no way you can keep Zusi off the field anymore.

Agree about Beasley though, especially with his age.  But who goes back there?  Can Timmy Chandler play there?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 25, 2014, 09:43:15 AM
The Shin Guardian's preview of the game. TSG is very much worth a follow on twitter and for their posts.

http://theshinguardian.com/2014/06/25/tsgs-usa-vs-germany-friends-in-low-places/ (http://theshinguardian.com/2014/06/25/tsgs-usa-vs-germany-friends-in-low-places/)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 25, 2014, 10:47:05 AM
I'm guessing its similar to Sundays lineup.  One player that hasn't impressed me all that much that I could see starting on the bench is Bedoya.  Wouldn't be surprised to see Klinnsman insert Mix there.  There's no way you can keep Zusi off the field anymore.

Agree about Beasley though, especially with his age.  But who goes back there?  Can Timmy Chandler play there?

Chandler would frighten me. Very prone to mental lapses, and with the added pressure of playing Germany, I can see him doing something rash. Mix is interesting, but can he play wide? If he's in the side I'd have to think it would be behind Dempsey.

It's going to be fascinating to see how this plays out. I agree with the TSG piece that Ozil is the key for Germany. Which means it might come down to how Jones and Bradley hold up in the midfield. Ozil had one of his poorer games for Arsenal against Liverpool, when Henderson and Coutinho pressed him relentlessly. Those two will need to be fit enough to keep the pressure on.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 25, 2014, 12:12:57 PM
I'm more interested to see how aggressively the teams play.  They both know they advance with a draw, so theoretically they could both park the bus with 90' remaining....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 25, 2014, 12:26:10 PM
Germany will try to win to guarantee they finish first in group. USA wants a win as well. Also, may depend on the situation in the ghana/portugal game going on. if portugal goes up early, both teams may pump the brakes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 25, 2014, 12:28:40 PM
Agree both teams will want to finish first, its a big difference going against Belgium versus Russia/Korea/Algeria and then after that, likely facing Argentina instead of most likely France.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 25, 2014, 01:41:49 PM
I think you'll see a genuine effort in the first half. Perhaps even up to 70 minutes. But there will come a time when both recognize the inevitable and play it fairly light.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 25, 2014, 01:46:31 PM
I think you'll see a genuine effort in the first half. Perhaps even up to 70 minutes. But there will come a time when both recognize the inevitable and play it fairly light.

Hopefully that happens before Germany is up big
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 25, 2014, 01:48:14 PM
Germany will try to win to guarantee they finish first in group. USA wants a win as well. Also, may depend on the situation in the ghana/portugal game going on. if portugal goes up early, both teams may pump the brakes.

But doesn't Germany win the group with a draw?  They have a huge goal differential after their beatdown of Portugal, and a draw puts USA and Germany at 5 points while the best Ghana or Portugal could get is 4.  So a draw - regardless of the outcome of Ghana-Portugal - would put Germany at first in the group and the US in second.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 25, 2014, 01:49:37 PM
I think in the back there aren't any changes except maybe Besler.  Not that I think Gonzales is better as I think Besler has been the best of the four in the back but with a tweaked hamstring and 3 days after a brutal game, I don't know if Besler can go the full 90.

In the mid I think Bradley, Zusi, Jones, and Beckerman are all given.  I think Bedoya sits and Davis plays.  He can help protect Beasley and gives them another option with crossing balls into the middle.  We're not going to be able to run Fabian Johnson down the right flank every time against Germany.  Bedoya just hasn't provided much.

Up top is Dempsey.

One variation I'd like to see is Zusi, Jones, Beckerman, and Bradly in the diamond and Dempsey and Johannsson up top.  Gives some more flexibility and more speed to try and carve up Germany's high line
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 25, 2014, 01:49:59 PM
But doesn't Germany win the group with a draw?  They have a huge goal differential after their beatdown of Portugal, and a draw puts USA and Germany at 5 points while the best Ghana or Portugal could get is 4.  So a draw - regardless of the outcome of Ghana-Portugal - would put Germany at first in the group and the US in second.

This is correct
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 25, 2014, 11:35:27 PM
Would love to see Suarez get suspended. Especially now since Colombia drew Uruguay. My family there says the streets in Bogota are going nuts. Now imagine how scary they would be with a healthy Falcao.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on June 25, 2014, 11:53:56 PM
Some streets in SoCal have gone nuts with Mexico advancing. Had to call out the riot squad
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 26, 2014, 12:12:46 AM
Game day. #1N1T
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2014, 12:39:03 AM
Some streets in SoCal have gone nuts with Mexico advancing. Had to call out the riot squad

Where you watching tomorrow Elephant?  I'm taking morning off with my son, probably going to the Olde Ship or we might just do ESPN Zone at Disney.  Told people are lining up at 7:00am
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 26, 2014, 08:01:28 AM
Ghana just suspended Muntari and Boateng for their match against Portugal.  Good news for the US if they can't eek out a win or draw today.

http://www.espnfc.com/fifa-world-cup/story/1913522/ghana-send-home-kevin-prince-boateng-and-sulley-muntari
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 26, 2014, 08:30:07 AM
Ghana just suspended Muntari and Boateng for their match against Portugal.  Good news for the US if they can't eek out a win or draw today.

http://www.espnfc.com/fifa-world-cup/story/1913522/ghana-send-home-kevin-prince-boateng-and-sulley-muntari

Wasn't Muntari out anyway with two yellows?

I just hope that Portugal wins.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 26, 2014, 08:54:15 AM
Bye bye Luiz. 9 games and 4 months.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 26, 2014, 09:32:05 AM
Gotta say, I'm more nervous now then I was yesterday.  Sloppy conditions and tired legs is a really bad combination.  I am more confident in a Portugal win or draw now so that relieves some of the pressure but the first 10 minutes of the game will tell the tale.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 26, 2014, 09:37:18 AM
Fast field. Hot, humid, wet conditions. I'd say that slightly favors the US.

But still nervous as hell
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 26, 2014, 09:37:48 AM
Game day. #1N1T

#LetsDoThis

http://vimeo.com/10752016 (http://vimeo.com/10752016)

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 26, 2014, 10:10:22 AM
You cannot deny that Klinsi has balls. Breaks up his back four for crucial qualification match and throws Davis into the fire against one of the best midfields in the Cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 26, 2014, 10:12:03 AM
Not a fan of Omar Gonzalez.  Hopefully he plays well today.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 26, 2014, 10:13:42 AM
Omar terrifies me back there. Let's hope he summons that Azteca form today.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 26, 2014, 10:24:00 AM
my boss didn't accept this excuse today   >:(

 (http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1844294.1403743785!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/klinsmannletter26s-1-web.jpg)

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 26, 2014, 11:50:40 AM
That Suarez suspension though...Thats a ban hammer if ive ever seen one.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 26, 2014, 01:12:51 PM
Moving on.  Thanks, Portugal, for squeaking by Ghana.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 26, 2014, 01:19:15 PM
Moving on.  Thanks, Portugal, for squeaking by Ghana.   


And to Pepe for the red card.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2014, 01:24:02 PM
Sometimes the pipes do matter. 

http://variety.com/2014/digital/news/espn-video-streaming-service-crashes-during-usa-germany-world-cup-match-1201251221/

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 26, 2014, 02:15:58 PM
Hey...I said this back in December.  Blind squirrel gets the acorn and all that.

"US has gotta hope to beat Ghana...draw with Portugal...and have Germany win out scoring a sh*t ton of goals against Portugal in the process."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 26, 2014, 02:19:14 PM
Gonzo, Jones played well today. Davis was... I like Yedlin on the wing. Bradley still hasn't figured out the CAM role. Still more natural building from the back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 26, 2014, 02:23:44 PM

And to Pepe for the red card.

My first thought as well. But Portugal was already two down when Pepe went nuts so US would still advance on the differential.

More importantly, the Ghana goalkeeper may have been "persuaded" by a certain Indonesian gentleman who picked up on the Black Stars not paying bonuses.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 26, 2014, 02:26:27 PM
Gonzo, Jones played well today. Davis was... I like Yedlin on the wing. Bradley still hasn't figured out the CAM role. Still more natural building from the back.

Agree that Davis was irrelevant. Gonzo did very, very well stepping in. Expect to see him continue there for Belgium.

Amazing to think we debated Jones/Beckerman for two months and Klinsi deploys both. Even more amazing it has seemed to hurt Bradley's positioning whilst at the same time bringing a freedom to Jones.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 26, 2014, 02:38:02 PM

Australia has a better chance in a group with both Spain and the Netherlands?

US has gotta hope to beat Ghana...draw with Portugal...and have Germany win out scoring a sh*t ton of goals against Portugal in the process.

Found it.   Well done, Sultan.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 26, 2014, 02:44:14 PM
Hey...I said this back in December.  Blind squirrel gets the acorn and all that.

"US has gotta hope to beat Ghana...draw with Portugal...and have Germany win out scoring a sh*t ton of goals against Portugal in the process."

The Sultan of Soccer
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 26, 2014, 02:54:40 PM
Hey...I said this back in December.  Blind squirrel gets the acorn and all that.

"US has gotta hope to beat Ghana...draw with Portugal...and have Germany win out scoring a sh*t ton of goals against Portugal in the process."

Germany didn't "win out."  Pretty crappy prediction, if you ask me.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 26, 2014, 04:14:07 PM
Agree that Davis was irrelevant. Gonzo did very, very well stepping in. Expect to see him continue there for Belgium.

Amazing to think we debated Jones/Beckerman for two months and Klinsi deploys both. Even more amazing it has seemed to hurt Bradley's positioning whilst at the same time bringing a freedom to Jones.

I think against Belgium we are going to see a lot of Bradley next to Beckerman with Jones being more of the attacker.  Bradley just doesn't seem comfortable getting forward aggressively.  Also, I don't think people realized how much Jozy freed Bradley to do his work.

I have a sneaking suspicion we will see Jozy on Tuesday
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2014, 04:22:13 PM
I think against Belgium we are going to see a lot of Bradley next to Beckerman with Jones being more of the attacker.  Bradley just doesn't seem comfortable getting forward aggressively.  Also, I don't think people realized how much Jozy freed Bradley to do his work.

I have a sneaking suspicion we will see Jozy on Tuesday

When Bradley shows up I will be thrilled.  Another sloppy game from him.  It's like he has lot the ability to trap a ball or make a pass longer than 15 yards with touch.  Very disappointing.  Perhaps you are right with Jozy opening up space, but more than a fair share of Bradley's mistakes are happening in space with a defender not on top of him.  Had to be another 5 to 7 of them today that just made us all cringe where we were watching.


One thing Klinsmann got right, US isn't winning this tournament and has no chance.  We played quite well against Portugal, but the Portuguese turned out to be less than stellar.  We were chasing all day today and the Germans are far superior.  That doesn't mean we haven't made great strides, because we have.  Doesn't mean we can't beat Belgium, but there is still a long way to go for us as a soccer nation.  Maybe in my lifetime we a Final Four from the US squad, that is my hope.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUDPT on June 26, 2014, 05:20:30 PM
Bradley is not playing his normal position, give him a break.  Also the US started 3 MFs, Bradley, Jones and Beckerman who played 90+ minutes in all 3 games.  No other team had 3 MFs that did that.  Jozy isn't playing again this tournament.  I will be very surprised if he makes the Belgium roster.  42% chance to beat Belgium according to Nate Silver, after that, who knows?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 26, 2014, 05:55:49 PM
Agree that Bradley isn't playing well, but I think most of his passes and longer sends are pretty good.  It seems to me that most of his first touches are getting him in trouble.

One instance today he could have settled an easy pass and had a chance on goal or to cross for another attacker and the ball slipped right past him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2014, 06:06:49 PM
Bradley is not playing his normal position, give him a break.  Also the US started 3 MFs, Bradley, Jones and Beckerman who played 90+ minutes in all 3 games.  No other team had 3 MFs that did that.  Jozy isn't playing again this tournament.  I will be very surprised if he makes the Belgium roster.  42% chance to beat Belgium according to Nate Silver, after that, who knows?

Several guys having to play out of position.  It's not like we're asking Bradley to play a radically different position.  The mistakes he is making are not based on his position, anyway, they are fundamental in nature.  I'm hoping he snaps out of it.

ESPN's Chris Jones says we are lucky, or blessed, or both to be where we are.  I can see his point, Ghanna outplayed us but we got the result.  Portugal took a mental pounding from the Germans in the first game.  On the flip side, USA had to travel like crazy, had to play in the Amazon, should have beaten Portugal just as much as one could argue we should have lost or done no better than a draw against Ghanna. 

"This is a lucky team. You could even say it's something like blessed. Jurgen Klinsmann and whatever benign invisible pixie sits on his shoulder have watched the Americans receive nearly every possible break. It wasn't just their own games -- their last-gasp victory over the otherwise dominant Ghanaians, their draw against a Portuguese side depleted by injury and indiscipline -- that went their way. Every other note the group struck helped: Germany's burying of Portugal into a psychological pit and their frantic draw against Ghana; Ghana's loss to Portugal in distant Brasilia; American heads here have been on a kind of cross-country swivel.

In the end, every tumbler fell into place and the escape hatch unlocked"
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 26, 2014, 06:09:56 PM
Bradley has covered more distance than any other player in the World Cup.

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/statistics/players/distance.html

The people beating up on Bradley are the same people that used to beat up on Jermaine Jones and Kyle Beckerman. If they actually watched the US play soccer before, that is.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2014, 06:36:22 PM
Bradley has covered more distance than any other player in the World Cup.

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/statistics/players/distance.html

The people beating up on Bradley are the same people that used to beat up on Jermaine Jones and Kyle Beckerman. If they actually watched the US play soccer before, that is.


Never beat up on Jones and Beckerman, so doesn't apply for me.  Bradley has been disappointing.  I'm not alone, plenty in the soccer world saying the same thing.  He needs to be better for us to have a chance. 

Fatigue will be an issue with his minutes and running, but that's the role of a midfielder to begin with.  It's what we've always had to do (talking as a midfielder).  No one is doubting the effort he is putting in.  The fatigue can be blamed for some things perhaps in the second half, but the mistakes have started from the first whistle.  His first touches have often been dreadful.

The NY Times, my favorite publication, had a decent story yesterday.  Michael Bradely..the US Engine...needs a tuneup.   I don't think he needs to be benched and any call for that is absurd, but he needs to play at his level of ability. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/26/sports/worldcup/world-cup-2014-against-germany-michael-bradley-will-need-to-improve.html?_r=0

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2014, 06:36:45 PM
Tweet of the day from SI


https://twitter.com/SI_DougFarrar/status/482209961598910464


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUDPT on June 26, 2014, 10:28:51 PM
Sorry but a holding midfielder and an attacking midfielder are two radically different things.  Bradley hasn't been his best and he would probably be the first to tell you.  What would you do as coach?  Move him back to holding and bench Beckerman?   Who starts centrally?  Mix hasn't been off the bench the whole World Cup.

Henry, the people beating up on Bradley, are the same ones that watch 4 soccer games and think they are the next Bob Bradley or Bruce Arena.  
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 26, 2014, 11:05:35 PM
Henry, the people beating up on Bradley, are the same ones that watch 4 soccer games and think they are the next Bob Bradley or Bruce Arena.  

On the whole, he's been poor. I don't think that's unfair to say. Positionally, he's been fine, but his first touch and passes have been heavy. He's the linchpin in their attack, and when he makes as many errors on the ball as he has, it stands out more.

But I've watched way more than four games, so what do I know.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2014, 11:30:14 PM
Sorry but a holding midfielder and an attacking midfielder are two radically different things.  Bradley hasn't been his best and he would probably be the first to tell you.  What would you do as coach?  Move him back to holding and bench Beckerman?   Who starts centrally?  Mix hasn't been off the bench the whole World Cup.

Henry, the people beating up on Bradley, are the same ones that watch 4 soccer games and think they are the next Bob Bradley or Bruce Arena.  

In reverse order, that's just nonsense.  Some of the more prominent soccer journalists in the world are talking about his disappointing play, too.  The commentators during the broadcast, the commentators after the match, former players.  What you are saying just isn't true.

What would I do....I would play him where Klinsmann has been playing him, and I would hope he can pull it together.  The mistakes I'm seeing him make are on basic traps and touches, and he's been too strong on a number of passes that he normally makes.  I honestly don't think it has anything to do with playing a different midfield position, he's just out of sorts right now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUDPT on June 27, 2014, 06:24:57 AM
You guys do know that Jones has more turnovers and missed passes than Bradley right?  And Chicos, for your writers criticism, check out Shin Guardian.  They are the USMNT experts.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 27, 2014, 08:05:28 AM
In reverse order, that's just nonsense.  Some of the more prominent soccer journalists in the world are talking about his disappointing play, too.  The commentators during the broadcast, the commentators after the match, former players.  What you are saying just isn't true.

What would I do....I would play him where Klinsmann has been playing him, and I would hope he can pull it together.  The mistakes I'm seeing him make are on basic traps and touches, and he's been too strong on a number of passes that he normally makes.  I honestly don't think it has anything to do with playing a different midfield position, he's just out of sorts right now.

Agreed. But I think the reason he's "out of sorts" is that he's thinking too much based on playing a different role/position. He works best as a deep lying playmaker who can run at a defense. Not necessarily a creative attacking mid. Yes, there is a difference. I think he's also feeling effects of Jozy being out. I loved the 4-3-2-1 they played against Nigeria that morphed into a 4-1-3-2 on offense because it allowed Bradley plenty of space in the middle of the field with 2 outlets forward, 2 outside, 1 behind. They 4-2-3-1 is more compact in the midfield and the only space he has to move is forward, for the most part. Against Portugal and a lot against Germany, Bradley was coming back near the backline to collect the ball while Jones made off-ball runs and Bradley looked much more comfortable.

I really believe his miss on basics is due to thinking and not just playing naturally. Look at the pass he made to Jones from the deep midfield - beautiful.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 27, 2014, 08:37:03 AM
Agreed. But I think the reason he's "out of sorts" is that he's thinking too much based on playing a different role/position. He works best as a deep lying playmaker who can run at a defense. Not necessarily a creative attacking mid. Yes, there is a difference. I think he's also feeling effects of Jozy being out. I loved the 4-3-2-1 they played against Nigeria that morphed into a 4-1-3-2 on offense because it allowed Bradley plenty of space in the middle of the field with 2 outlets forward, 2 outside, 1 behind. They 4-2-3-1 is more compact in the midfield and the only space he has to move is forward, for the most part. Against Portugal and a lot against Germany, Bradley was coming back near the backline to collect the ball while Jones made off-ball runs and Bradley looked much more comfortable.

I really believe his miss on basics is due to thinking and not just playing naturally. Look at the pass he made to Jones from the deep midfield - beautiful.

Agree with all of this, but particularly the parts highlighted in bold.

No one is arguing that Bradley has been poorer than expected. However, I think it's more due to the system in which he's currently operating (CAM, no Jozy) rather than his own personal failures.

I also think his contributions are getting overlooked by people. Not only has Bradley covered more distance than any other player at the World Cup, but he's completed more passes than any other US player, AND his 83% completion rate is third on the team (Beckerman 89%, Besler 84%).

Of course, not like Il Generale cares what any of us think.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 27, 2014, 08:43:28 AM
Something that deserves to be its own talking point...

I've heard Klinsmann and the Men in Blazers both comment a few times about America not yet having a culture of accountability. In other words, no one runs into the player at the grocery store and asks them why they missed a shot or didn't complete enough passes.

In many ways, the conversation we are having now about Bradley is a good thing, because it reflects part of that cultural evolution.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2014, 09:41:24 AM
Agree with all of this, but particularly the parts highlighted in bold.

No one is arguing that Bradley has been poorer than expected. However, I think it's more due to the system in which he's currently operating (CAM, no Jozy) rather than his own personal failures.

I also think his contributions are getting overlooked by people. Not only has Bradley covered more distance than any other player at the World Cup, but he's completed more passes than any other US player, AND his 83% completion rate is third on the team (Beckerman 89%, Besler 84%).

Of course, not like Il Generale cares what any of us think.

As a center mid, he's supposed to have many completed passes and high completion rate.   That goes with the territory of that position.  It's the obvious failures at controlling the ball, in space, with opportunity that is causing people to be concerned.  I like the guy, he's a really good player, that's why it has been disappointing to see.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2014, 09:45:31 AM
You guys do know that Jones has more turnovers and missed passes than Bradley right?  And Chicos, for your writers criticism, check out Shin Guardian.  They are the USMNT experts.

That's fine that Jones has more turnovers, I EXPECT that from Jones.  It's the kind of turnovers, when they happen, etc that are most glaring with MB right now.  MB failing to make the most basic trap around the 18 yard box yesterday in space, vs JJ making a run and turning it over are different things.

I don't expect perfection, just better play.  He's getting criticized for a reason.  Some would argue he is our best all around player coming in, though I wouldn't necessarily agree.  At a minimum, top 3 field player on the US team.  He hasn't put in a top 3 performance.  Your stars have to perform at that level.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2014, 09:46:51 AM
Agreed. But I think the reason he's "out of sorts" is that he's thinking too much based on playing a different role/position. He works best as a deep lying playmaker who can run at a defense. Not necessarily a creative attacking mid. Yes, there is a difference. I think he's also feeling effects of Jozy being out. I loved the 4-3-2-1 they played against Nigeria that morphed into a 4-1-3-2 on offense because it allowed Bradley plenty of space in the middle of the field with 2 outlets forward, 2 outside, 1 behind. They 4-2-3-1 is more compact in the midfield and the only space he has to move is forward, for the most part. Against Portugal and a lot against Germany, Bradley was coming back near the backline to collect the ball while Jones made off-ball runs and Bradley looked much more comfortable.

I really believe his miss on basics is due to thinking and not just playing naturally. Look at the pass he made to Jones from the deep midfield - beautiful.

I'm glad you said this, it was where I was going to go with the thinking part.  At times he does look like he's plotting out next steps and not just doing them.  The flow isn't there. 

Buzz needs to unleash him
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 27, 2014, 09:48:34 AM
I'm glad you said this, it was where I was going to go with the thinking part.  At times he does look like he's plotting out next steps and not just doing them.  The flow isn't there. 

Buzz needs to unleash him

I chuckled at this. well played.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 27, 2014, 09:49:24 AM
That's fine that Jones has more turnovers, I EXPECT that from Jones.  It's the kind of turnovers, when they happen, etc that are most glaring with MB right now.  MB failing to make the most basic trap around the 18 yard box yesterday in space, vs JJ making a run and turning it over are different things.

I don't expect perfection, just better play.  He's getting criticized for a reason.  Some would argue he is our best all around player coming in, though I wouldn't necessarily agree.  At a minimum, top 3 field player on the US team.  He hasn't put in a top 3 performance.  Your stars have to perform at that level.

oh good lord that moment pissed me off. one touch trap, then shoot. had a great angle, tons of time. couldn't believe he just whiffed on the trap.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 27, 2014, 10:13:20 AM
The South American bracket is tomorrow. Chile vs. Brazil and Colombia vs. Uruguay. Who ya got? Im fully expecting a Colombia and Brazil matchup. May even be an even split in the crowd for that game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 27, 2014, 10:14:36 AM
As a center mid, he's supposed to have many completed passes and high completion rate.   That goes with the territory of that position.  It's the obvious failures at controlling the ball, in space, with opportunity that is causing people to be concerned.  I like the guy, he's a really good player, that's why it has been disappointing to see.

Presenting, "Bradley's contributions are getting overlooked" Evidence #1 to the jury

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 27, 2014, 10:40:06 AM
The South American bracket is tomorrow. Chile vs. Brazil and Colombia vs. Uruguay. Who ya got? Im fully expecting a Colombia and Brazil matchup. May even be an even split in the crowd for that game.

Some interesting history between Chile and Brazil in regards to the World Cup....great story.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/17/sport/football/brazil-chile-world-cup-scandal/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 27, 2014, 11:44:43 AM
Presenting, "Bradley's contributions are getting overlooked" Evidence #1 to the jury



+1
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2014, 11:51:21 AM
Are Bradley's stats that much different than 2010 in terms of running, distance covered?

http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/25/how-good-is-michael-bradley-the-stats-say-very-good/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=1


It's what we should expect from him. 





Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 27, 2014, 11:57:10 AM
Is this b!tch trolling?  ::)
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2014-06-25.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 27, 2014, 12:00:53 PM
Is this b!tch trolling?  ::)
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2014-06-25.html

Not to take this down a path....but when is she not  ;D

I always love people who pick on soccer fans saying they are so sensitive....well why do you care, if you aren't sensitive, just move along and pay no attention to a sport I love.

Soccer fans do need to be inclusive though...this whole "you don't understand, get out of my club" mentality has to end if the sport is going to continue to grow.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2014, 12:05:15 PM
WhoScored Soccer rating system had Bradley as the worst player on the field, not just USA for the Ghana game

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/789626/Live


Overall, for the three games, he is ranked 45th of the 75 Group G players.  He is ranked as the overall #1 US player coming into the World Cup by one service, top 3 by two others. 


On his pass completions, in the attacking third of the field, he is at 49.9% success.   Needs to be better.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 27, 2014, 12:24:26 PM
WhoScored Soccer rating system had Bradley as the worst player on the field, not just USA for the Ghana game

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/789626/Live


Overall, for the three games, he is ranked 45th of the 75 Group G players.  He is ranked as the overall #1 US player coming into the World Cup by one service, top 3 by two others. 


On his pass completions, in the attacking third of the field, he is at 49.9% success.   Needs to be better.

Is anyone disagreeing that Bradley is not playing badly? At least, as a consensus on this board?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 27, 2014, 12:29:22 PM
Needs to be better.

"No sh!t", says EVERYONE
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 27, 2014, 12:40:40 PM
Is anyone disagreeing that Bradley is not playing badly? At least, as a consensus on this board?

Maybe I'm parsing words....I wouldn't say he is bad, he is just not playing to his potential.  As Henry pointed out, he is not necessarily playing in a comfortable position.  His talent is definitely there I just don't think the pieces are on the field right now to exploit that talent.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUDPT on June 27, 2014, 12:42:54 PM
WhoScored Soccer rating system had Bradley as the worst player on the field, not just USA for the Ghana game

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/789626/Live


Overall, for the three games, he is ranked 45th of the 75 Group G players.  He is ranked as the overall #1 US player coming into the World Cup by one service, top 3 by two others.  


On his pass completions, in the attacking third of the field, he is at 49.9% success.   Needs to be better.

Johannsson was actually worse at 5.9, but you are right the worst player that started the game against Ghana was Bradley, as rated by WhoScored.   I think we can agree that Ghana's right back (Opare) was the worst player on the field that day.  He was 2 for 11 on crosses.  
My feelings are as follows on Bradley:  
1. He hasn't been as good as he has been in the past.
2. He's playing out of his favored position. (And other players aren't fairing as hot in new positions as well (see Geoff Cameron or DaMarcus Beasley)).
3. The US has really no other option centrally, unfortunately.  Maybe it's because Jozy got hurt, maybe because Donovan was left off the team, maybe because the US has developed no great central attacking midfielders (please let the Zelalem rumors be true).  

If the US loses out in the next round, I don't want to hear a blame Michael Bradley chorus from everyone.  It's a lot of things going on at once and the guy has been better since the Ghana game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2014, 01:40:19 PM
Is anyone disagreeing that Bradley is not playing badly? At least, as a consensus on this board?

I think some are covering for him, giving excuses.  Yes.


Someone at his level, needs to play better.  Your stars need to shine brightest in the biggest games, when the lights are on.  He needs to get better, I don't know why so many are covering for him, making excuses, trying to compare him to the play of other guys on the team who clearly aren't of his quality.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Aughnanure on June 27, 2014, 02:15:41 PM
Is this b!tch trolling?  ::)
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2014-06-25.html

Our generation's greatest performance artist.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 27, 2014, 02:32:50 PM
I think some are covering for him, giving excuses.  Yes.


Someone at his level, needs to play better.  Your stars need to shine brightest in the biggest games, when the lights are on.  He needs to get better, I don't know why so many are covering for him, making excuses, trying to compare him to the play of other guys on the team who clearly aren't of his quality.

I think you are blowing this slightly out of proportion.  Noone is disagreeing with you that he is playing poorly and needs to play better.  Everyone sees it.  I do think he isn't playing as bad as many make it out to be. 

You are right though, he is supposed to be one of the top-3 players on this team.  I said coming into the tourney that is our #1 guy, and he is not playing at all close to the level he should be.

I don't think anyone here are making excuses or covering for him, but merely suggesting possible reasons why his play has slipped.  These aren't excuses for his play.  Despite playing a slightly different position than what he is natural too and missing the target forward he is used to having, one of your top-3 players should still overcome that and flourish in these moments instead of making some silly mistakes he is making.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2014, 02:45:46 PM
I think you are blowing this slightly out of proportion.  Noone is disagreeing with you that he is playing poorly and needs to play better.  Everyone sees it.  I do think he isn't playing as bad as many make it out to be. 

You are right though, he is supposed to be one of the top-3 players on this team.  I said coming into the tourney that is our #1 guy, and he is not playing at all close to the level he should be.

I don't think anyone here are making excuses or covering for him, but merely suggesting possible reasons why his play has slipped.  These aren't excuses for his play.  Despite playing a slightly different position than what he is natural too and missing the target forward he is used to having, one of your top-3 players should still overcome that and flourish in these moments instead of making some silly mistakes he is making.

Well, when I read he is out of position, he is having to run a lot, the heat, etc.  That sounds like excuses to me.  My two cents.  Hopefully he comes around Tuesday, we need him too badly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 27, 2014, 02:52:18 PM
I think some are covering for him, giving excuses.  Yes.

Someone at his level, needs to play better.  Your stars need to shine brightest in the biggest games, when the lights are on.  He needs to get better, I don't know why so many are covering for him, making excuses, trying to compare him to the play of other guys on the team who clearly aren't of his quality.

No one is arguing that Bradley has been poorer than expected. No one is arguing that we need him to play better.

I think the difference is that some of us want to try to understand the full situation and reasons.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on June 27, 2014, 03:34:49 PM
Soccer fans do need to be inclusive though...this whole "you don't understand, get out of my club" mentality has to end if the sport is going to continue to grow.

True, but man did I get tired of explaining goal differential. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2014, 03:39:31 PM
No one is arguing that Bradley has been poorer than expected. No one is arguing that we need him to play better.

I think the difference is that some of us want to try to understand the full situation and reasons.

Disagree on point one.

Agree on point two.  It's complex, always is.  For the record, I'm not putting it all on him or in a vacuum either.  Our defense was suspect coming into the WC, not sure it still isn't suspect.  All kinds of other stuff going on as expected in a fluid, 90 minute affair.  I'm a big Bradley fan, that's why this has been a disappointment. I played midfield most of my life, nearly walked on at MU, had the opportunity to play D3 here locally.  I want him to do well, as we all do.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 27, 2014, 03:42:12 PM
Well, when I read he is out of position, he is having to run a lot, the heat, etc.  That sounds like excuses to me.  My two cents.  Hopefully he comes around Tuesday, we need him too badly.

I've seen people say he is playing out of position.  Haven't seen the heat brought up, maybe I missed this.  Him running a lot I thought came up in context of how involved he has been, not as part of the reason of his poor performance.

Either way, tomato tomato (you really can't make that point out over message boards can you? just sound it out for me please so you get it, haha).  You say excuses, I say reasons for some of his poor play.  As I noted above, even though he isn't completely comfortable in his position/without Jozy, he should still play better.  There is no excuse for most of his miscues on his first touches.

We really do need him to step up Tuesday though.  It will be a tough match.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2014, 04:09:06 PM
I've seen people say he is playing out of position.  Haven't seen the heat brought up, maybe I missed this.  Him running a lot I thought came up in context of how involved he has been, not as part of the reason of his poor performance.

Either way, tomato tomato (you really can't make that point out over message boards can you? just sound it out for me please so you get it, haha).  You say excuses, I say reasons for some of his poor play.  As I noted above, even though he isn't completely comfortable in his position/without Jozy, he should still play better.  There is no excuse for most of his miscues on his first touches.

We really do need him to step up Tuesday though.  It will be a tough match.

I would be shocked if we won against Belgium, but you never know. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 27, 2014, 04:14:25 PM
Disagree on point one.

fine, but you're wrong.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 27, 2014, 04:33:21 PM
I would be shocked if we won against Belgium, but you never know. 

Why shocked?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brandx on June 27, 2014, 04:37:55 PM
I would be shocked if we won against Belgium, but you never know. 

Hey, Hey!! We agree on something. ;D



I only saw about half of the Germany game, but I don't think we would score against a good team like that if the game lasted a week instead of 90 minutes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on June 27, 2014, 04:49:00 PM
Belgium has been way too hyped up, they've got a great group of players but they've looking anything but impressive so far, granted they've got 9 points through the group stages. They don't play very well as a team and have little to no experience. Not to mention Mertens thinks he's Messi every time he gets the ball which doesn't bode well for them. It should be a good game and I would not be surprised at all if we win.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 27, 2014, 05:03:38 PM
538 gives us about a 42% chance of beating Belgium. Sounds right.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brandx on June 27, 2014, 05:35:02 PM
538 gives us about a 42% chance of beating Belgium. Sounds right.

Makes me feel better. I trust their analysis far more than my own.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 77ncaachamps on June 28, 2014, 02:17:26 PM
538 gives us about a 42% chance of beating Belgium. Sounds right.

A swift kick to the Hazard's groin and we'll move up to 51%.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUeng on June 28, 2014, 02:29:02 PM
538 gives us about a 42% chance of beating Belgium. Sounds right.
belgium is damn good so 42%, ill take it!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2014, 02:30:37 PM
fine, but you're wrong.

I just got done reading an article "don't blame Bradley"...guess I'm not wrong.   ;D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2014, 02:34:22 PM
Why shocked?

Because we aren't in their class.  Maybe shocked is a bit strong, but how about very surprised.  I expect we give them a good go, but ultimately lose 2-1.  When we played against Germany, we chased all day and there was zero doubt in my mind who controlled the game, who had the better play.  Vs Portugal, we were the better team but I'm not sure that's saying much watching Portugal in this tournament.  They were ranked highly, but didn't look that great.  Ghana, honestly felt we were fortunate to get the W...chased a lot that game as well.

Maybe another way to put it, this group was tagged the group of death PRIOR to the tournament.  In watching them play, not sure I would categorize it as the toughest group viewing the actual play.  My two cents.   

I'm boycotting Belgian Waffles over the weekend.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 28, 2014, 11:37:05 PM
Time to play, guess which premire league team James Rodriguez will play for next season.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2014, 01:06:07 PM
Go DUTCH!!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 29, 2014, 02:31:50 PM
Glad we beat Panama when we didn't need it to allow El Tri into the WC just so they'd suffer a defeat like that. suck it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 29, 2014, 04:57:51 PM
FIFA/refs bailing out Greece. When do the handouts stop??
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 29, 2014, 06:21:45 PM
FIFA/refs bailing out Greece. When do the handouts stop??

During the penalty kicks.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUDPT on June 29, 2014, 08:17:46 PM
Time to play, guess which premire league team James Rodriguez will play for next season.

I will guess no EPL team.  Dude set the record money of transfers out of Portugal when he signed with Monaco last season.  Monaco invested a lot last year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 30, 2014, 08:50:18 AM
Because we aren't in their class.  Maybe shocked is a bit strong, but how about very surprised.  I expect we give them a good go, but ultimately lose 2-1.  When we played against Germany, we chased all day and there was zero doubt in my mind who controlled the game, who had the better play.  Vs Portugal, we were the better team but I'm not sure that's saying much watching Portugal in this tournament.  They were ranked highly, but didn't look that great.  Ghana, honestly felt we were fortunate to get the W...chased a lot that game as well.

Maybe another way to put it, this group was tagged the group of death PRIOR to the tournament.  In watching them play, not sure I would categorize it as the toughest group viewing the actual play.  My two cents.   

I'm boycotting Belgian Waffles over the weekend.

To be frank, this reads more like you're rating Belgium very high because you rate the US very low. May I ask what specifically about Belgium makes them a class ahead of the Estados Unidos?

Regarding our group opponents, it surprises me that Ghana has gotten off without criticism. Talking about a team you think the US was lucky to beat. A team who went toe-to-toe with Germany. But also a team that pulled a complete no-show against a supposedly inferior Portugal squad (who finished higher than Ghana, by the way).

And regarding that inferior Portugal squad, even with injury to the best player in the world this past campaign they were able to gather four points which was enough to qualify for 25% of the teams in the Round of 16. Portuguese were undone by a poor 14 minute stretch that saw them concede twice and have a man sent off against Germany.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 30, 2014, 09:04:58 AM
Two quality links

Detailed analysis of the USA-Germany game
http://otfsoccer.com/2014/06/28/usmnt-breakdown-vs-germany-world-cup-group-g-game-3-3/

The Shin Guardian's preview of USA-Belgium
http://theshinguardian.com/2014/06/29/tsgs-usa-vs-belgium-preview-dukes-with-hazard/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 30, 2014, 12:30:33 PM
Jozy has been cleared to play tomorrow.  Not sure how his fitness will be, but he's available.

http://www.espnfc.us/fifa-world-cup/story/1923301/jozy-altidore-hamstring-strain-trains-with-us-team-in-salvador
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 30, 2014, 12:40:15 PM
Jozy has been cleared to play tomorrow.  Not sure how his fitness will be, but he's available.

http://www.espnfc.us/fifa-world-cup/story/1923301/jozy-altidore-hamstring-strain-trains-with-us-team-in-salvador

Can see him coming on late as a sub.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 30, 2014, 04:58:33 PM
Can see him coming on late as a sub.

I actually think he starts.....adds a new dimension right away Belgium hasn't seen.  Based on how that goes, if he needs to come off the field we then have all sorts of flexibility as to what the new formation is.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 30, 2014, 08:56:16 PM
I actually think he starts.....adds a new dimension right away Belgium hasn't seen.  Based on how that goes, if he needs to come off the field we then have all sorts of flexibility as to what the new formation is.

Man, that's a huge gamble. Look at the CL Final with Diego Costa. Can't risk having to use an early sub in a match that could go 120.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUDPT on June 30, 2014, 10:58:35 PM
Man, that's a huge gamble. Look at the CL Final with Diego Costa. Can't risk having to use an early sub in a match that could go 120.

Agree.  If you read the Shin Guardian preview, he thinks the US needs to press early as Belgium are a slow starter.  Can't risk having a striker coming back and trying to go as hard as possible for 60+ minutes.  I can only see him coming on at the 75+ minute mark if the US is down.  His match fitness has to be really poor too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 01, 2014, 07:52:24 AM
Man, that's a huge gamble. Look at the CL Final with Diego Costa. Can't risk having to use an early sub in a match that could go 120.

What happens if you bring Jozy in at the 70th minute and the game still goes 120 minutes?  50 minutes at the beginning of the game or at the end is largely irrelevant.

I think Jozy gives the Belgiums match-up issues and I'd rather through my best punch early than hope to stay in and need him to press at the end.  We've got to take it to the Belgians early IMHO
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 01, 2014, 07:59:44 AM
What happens if you bring Jozy in at the 70th minute and the game still goes 120 minutes?  50 minutes at the beginning of the game or at the end is largely irrelevant.

I think Jozy gives the Belgiums match-up issues and I'd rather through my best punch early than hope to stay in and need him to press at the end.  We've got to take it to the Belgians early IMHO

If he can go 50, great. Do it. I'm worried he has to be subbed after 15.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on July 01, 2014, 08:14:27 AM
Start him, punch Belgium in the teeth from the very beginning, especially if Kompany is out.  
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 01, 2014, 08:17:04 AM
I've talked myself into and out of the Jozy early vs Jozy late argument.

The more risk averse move is to start him so you preserve the extra sub. The advantage of subbing late (75th min or so) is that you get the additional breaks with stoppage of play, but it's riskier with the potential of him getting injured and burning two subs.

Most coaches are risk averse, but Jurgen isn't most coaches. Guess we'll have to wait and see...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 01, 2014, 08:21:53 AM
If it was me, I'd bring him in as a second half sub. Jozy probably also has a say in this, as further aggravation could lead to a serious injury. If US is up, might not need him at all. If US is down big, won't need him. Just bring him in if US is down 1, around 60-65min
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 01, 2014, 08:39:58 AM
If it was me, I'd bring him in as a second half sub. Jozy probably also has a say in this, as further aggravation could lead to a serious injury. If US is up, might not need him at all. If US is down big, won't need him. Just bring him in if US is down 1, around 60-65min

Yeah, I guess I don't look at Jozy as instant offense(he can be) but he is more of a grinder.  I think he does his best work when he can grind the offense and wear them out.  If he doesn't have the juice to play 60-70 minutes and wear Belgium out, I'm not sure that he should play at all.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 01, 2014, 09:16:27 AM
Yeah, I guess I don't look at Jozy as instant offense(he can be) but he is more of a grinder.  I think he does his best work when he can grind the offense and wear them out.  If he doesn't have the juice to play 60-70 minutes and wear Belgium out, I'm not sure that he should play at all.

On a similar vein, the legend grows when not available. Whether he starts, second half sub, or last minute desperation I fear people will be sorely disappointed if they're looking at Jozy's presence being some sort of skeleton key to solve the puzzle of Belgium.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 01, 2014, 09:32:47 AM
On a similar vein, the legend grows when not available. Whether he starts, second half sub, or last minute desperation I fear people will be sorely disappointed if they're looking at Jozy's presence being some sort of skeleton key to solve the puzzle of Belgium.

On the other hand, I recently read something that talked about how strikers are more efficient at scoring when they are used as substitutes.

Playing Jozy as a sub may increase his impact.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 01, 2014, 10:10:52 AM
On the other hand, I recently read something that talked about how strikers are more efficient at scoring when they are used as substitutes.

Playing Jozy as a sub may increase his impact.

Not being flippant, but is this a statistical hypothesis or an anecdotal one?  I get maybe the fresh legs against tired defense as a factor, but that doesn't seem nearly enough to increase efficiency.  It be interesting to see what the rate of goal scoring is late in games, with and without striker substitutions.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 01, 2014, 10:11:14 AM
On the other hand, I recently read something that talked about how strikers are more efficient at scoring when they are used as substitutes.

Playing Jozy as a sub may increase his impact.

I like the idea of bringing his fresh legs off the bench to run at tired defenders. I'd love for Yedlin to be deployed the same way he was vs. Portugal for that same reason.

This Belgian back four can be exploited. Especially on the flanks. Bradley is so, so critical for them today. If he can corral the ball and pick out a wide pass effectively, they have a real chance of opening Belgium up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 01, 2014, 10:30:15 AM
Anyone know if they're showing the WC games on a big screen at MU - maybe in the union?

We're headed to the BBQ this evening and hoping to catch the match beforehand.  I know we could find a bar to watch, but with the daughter along, I'd rather find a campus place if they're showing them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 01, 2014, 10:40:29 AM
I think the Brooks Lounge in the AMU has been showing the games.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2014, 11:27:46 AM
To be frank, this reads more like you're rating Belgium very high because you rate the US very low. May I ask what specifically about Belgium makes them a class ahead of the Estados Unidos?

Regarding our group opponents, it surprises me that Ghana has gotten off without criticism. Talking about a team you think the US was lucky to beat. A team who went toe-to-toe with Germany. But also a team that pulled a complete no-show against a supposedly inferior Portugal squad (who finished higher than Ghana, by the way).

And regarding that inferior Portugal squad, even with injury to the best player in the world this past campaign they were able to gather four points which was enough to qualify for 25% of the teams in the Round of 16. Portuguese were undone by a poor 14 minute stretch that saw them concede twice and have a man sent off against Germany.

Let's put the boot on the other foot for a second.  If the US had the game Ghana did against us and gave up a late goal on a corner kick header, would we feel it was a game we should have won?  In my opinion, we were fortunate to win that game.  Draw seemed more likely as the Ghanians outplayed us most of the game. 

The reverse for Portugal, as that was a game we controlled the play and should have won.  Let's not forget Portugal has to squeak by Sweden 3-2 just to get into the World Cup.  I know they are ranked highly, but they were a disappointment in this tournament.

Hopefully the boys play well today and Bradley shows up.  Most concerned about our defense that has given up 4 goals.  Belgians have given up 1 goal, which is actually a little surprising to me.  Having 4 backs, all of them center backs, usually presents problems with so many playing out of position, but they have been able to hold together thus far.  Belgium is certainly beatable, anyone is.  In a one game affair, the pressure to advance, anything is possible.  Hoping for the best, but don't anticipate a victory today.  Perhaps we can get it to penalty kicks and surprise.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 01, 2014, 11:34:40 AM
I think the Brooks Lounge in the AMU has been showing the games.

Thanks - we'll give it a try.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 01, 2014, 11:34:56 AM
Not being flippant, but is this a statistical hypothesis or an anecdotal one?  I get maybe the fresh legs against tired defense as a factor, but that doesn't seem nearly enough to increase efficiency.  It be interesting to see what the rate of goal scoring is late in games, with and without striker substitutions.

Come on, man!

I got it from this. It compares Non-Penalty Goals / 90 min (NPG90) for starters and subs across Chicarito and four other players. The tl;dr version is that the players they list score goals as subs at roughly twice the rate they do as starters.

http://www.statsbomb.com/2014/06/statsbomb-mythbusting-is-javier-hernandez-any-good/

Before anyone says, "It's only five players", that article is based on this link, which was in the Hernandez article. This one goes across hundreds of players and multiple leagues and finds a consistent effect for increased scoring rates for subs.

http://www.statsbomb.com/2014/01/smart-use-of-substitutes-can-make-a-difference/

The scoring boost for an attacking player is also linked with substitution-ON effects. Therefore, the benefit would be realized by bringing Jozy on later as a sub.

analytics rule
Soccer has fun stats as well
Jozy super-sub
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 01, 2014, 11:38:01 AM
(http://www.thetablebellingham.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/eeyore-1-181x300.gif)

fixed
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2014, 11:42:59 AM
I'll be cheering hard Henry, excited about the game and the opportunity.  I think your image is wrong, but whatever.  More appropriate would be something like this:


(http://xojmo.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/optimism-vs-pessimism.png)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 01, 2014, 11:49:11 AM
Spare me the grim litany of the "realist." Give me the unrealistic aspirations of the optimist any day.
Colin Powell

(https://d13yacurqjgara.cloudfront.net/users/93351/screenshots/1604997/ibelievethatwewillwin_1x.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2014, 12:22:01 PM
I believe we can win.  I don't think we will. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 01, 2014, 02:26:53 PM
Odd lineup.  Klinny rolling out a 4-3-3 with Bedoya, Zusi up top with Dempsey and Geoff Cameron at right mid.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 01, 2014, 02:53:23 PM
Odd lineup.  Klinny rolling out a 4-3-3 with Bedoya, Zusi up top with Dempsey and Geoff Cameron at right mid.

I like it, they are going after the flanks hard.  guarantee Cameron comes off late for Yedlin if the US needs some punch
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2014, 03:16:47 PM
How many games have had a fan go on the field now, 7 or 8?  Security must be appalling around the field.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 01, 2014, 03:31:32 PM
Epic fail by Marquette. All the big rooms at the AMU are closed off and not a single TV is tuned to the match.  It's like the only place on earth where people don't seem to know the World Cup is going on.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2014, 04:16:27 PM
Scary game, can't believe we are hanging on.  Maybe we can get a goal and keep dodging the bullets.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on July 01, 2014, 04:57:12 PM
Wondo had the game right there.  This will be fun to watch in  overtime . Hope Howard can continue to his dominance
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on July 01, 2014, 05:12:54 PM
Ugh.  Besler played well, then looked tired and over-matched late.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on July 01, 2014, 05:17:58 PM
JFG
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2014, 05:33:49 PM
Wondo had the game right there.  This will be fun to watch in  overtime . Hope Howard can continue to his dominance

It was a fun run, but we were outclassed most of the game today.  The last 15 minutes in extra time was terrific by the U.S..  That was an epic set play that almost worked to tie the game...wow.  Had Belgium on the ropes, then again the Belgians had us on the ropes most of the game.  Howard was the man of the match.

Keep making progress, and maybe opportunity awaits in a few world cups down the road where we could be a final 8 or final 4 team, but still a ways off.  Just being realistic.  Fun run, proud of the boys. Good to see Michael Bradley make the great ball on the goal...something to build on.  Maybe Chico jr. is the goalie in 2022.   ;)


“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.”
― William Arthur Ward


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brandx on July 01, 2014, 05:36:36 PM
Sorry, but soccer reminds me of going to a Marquette game where Derrick is the best offensive player on the court.

Then after an epic 23-21 game, all we hear is how great the defense was.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2014, 05:44:56 PM
Because we aren't in their class.  Maybe shocked is a bit strong, but how about very surprised.  I expect we give them a good go, but ultimately lose 2-1.  When we played against Germany, we chased all day and there was zero doubt in my mind who controlled the game, who had the better play.  Vs Portugal, we were the better team but I'm not sure that's saying much watching Portugal in this tournament.  They were ranked highly, but didn't look that great.  Ghana, honestly felt we were fortunate to get the W...chased a lot that game as well.

Maybe another way to put it, this group was tagged the group of death PRIOR to the tournament.  In watching them play, not sure I would categorize it as the toughest group viewing the actual play.  My two cents.   

I'm boycotting Belgian Waffles over the weekend.

(http://media.giphy.com/media/mn1cym1jiJOUg/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 01, 2014, 06:02:28 PM
After that loss...

Allez les bleus!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2014, 07:27:03 PM
After that loss...

Allez les bleus!

They are playing very well....still, very difficult for me ever to cheer for the French.  Going with the ancestry, go DUTCH
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 01, 2014, 09:22:08 PM
Please, its all about Colombia. Unidos por un pais.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 01, 2014, 11:21:02 PM
The injuries were a killer, as was the Portugal equalizer. It would have been nice to rest players against Germany.

Don't think they are as far away as Chicos thinks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 12:40:46 AM
The injuries were a killer, as was the Portugal equalizer. It would have been nice to rest players against Germany.

Don't think they are as far away as Chicos thinks.

I don't know.  Outclassed by Germany and Belgium.  We never give up, always have a chance in these games, but no one with any cred is going to argue who the better teams are on the field.  Have only beaten one high level European team in the 16 years in a marquee competition like this.  I love the game, we keep getting better.  I played against Erik Wynalda and Cobi Jones in high school, been around the game my whole life. Definitely getting better, but still think we have a long ways to go.

As long as the best athletes in the country end up playing other sports, it will be tough.  That being said, I thought this year's team was as athletic as we've been in a long time.  Need to get bigger and stronger and faster at key positions still, but progress nonetheless.  

Another reason I'm not in favor of paying college athletes.  It will lead to the shutting down of programs, including men's soccer.  Our Olympic sports will suffer as a result, just as men's Olympic sports have already suffered since Title IX was implemented.  Nature of the beast.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 12:42:57 AM
Please, its all about Colombia. Unidos por un pais.

I can't cheer for a country where some of the citizenry kills its players when they don't play well....just doesn't seem right. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 02, 2014, 07:29:39 AM
I'm really excited for Copa America 2016
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 02, 2014, 08:23:52 AM
The injuries were a killer, as was the Portugal equalizer. It would have been nice to rest players against Germany.

Don't think they are as far away as Chicos thinks.

Considering all went to crap 22 minutes into the Cup, the team and Klinsi did a good job of manufacturing what they could. They may not have jumped leaps and bounds into the dominant force that so many snobbish self-righteous nose sneering folks (a few in this thread join that crowd) want but to be versatile enough to play different systems game to game and have impact subs off the bench is progress not to be laughed at.

It is humorous that the US soccer program is now in a position of having gained respect from the traditionally snobbish but will deal with the newly snobbish that constantly point to being outclassed and bemoan never having the best athletes in the country playing the game or generally finding any bit of negativity to exploit and condemn as a sign that our program is amateurish at best with only moments of "fun" involved.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 02, 2014, 09:04:11 AM
I don't know.  Outclassed by Germany and Belgium.  We never give up, always have a chance in these games, but no one with any cred is going to argue who the better teams are on the field.

And no one has.

The quality gap between the US and the elites shows in the depth. Yesterday, Belgium brought on a striker off the bench that scored 15 times in the Premiership. The US brought on Wondo.

The USA's best XI, when healthy, aren't that far away. This was always going to be a transitional cycle, and they did damn well all things considered. With the Gold Cup, Olympics, and Copa America coming up, there's a chance to develop the young guys even further.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 02, 2014, 09:05:58 AM
Considering all went to crap 22 minutes into the Cup, the team and Klinsi did a good job of manufacturing what they could. They may not have jumped leaps and bounds into the dominant force that so many snobbish self-righteous nose sneering folks (a few in this thread join that crowd) want but to be versatile enough to play different systems game to game and have impact subs off the bench is progress not to be laughed at.

It is humorous that the US soccer program is now in a position of having gained respect from the traditionally snobbish but will deal with the newly snobbish that constantly point to being outclassed and bemoan never having the best athletes in the country playing the game or generally finding any bit of negativity to exploit and condemn as a sign that our program is amateurish at best with only moments of "fun" involved.


Exactly.

**25 years ago we had to beat Trinidad & Tobago just to get to the Finals.

**16 years ago we had a disaster of a performance finishing dead last in a group and losing to the likes of Iran.

**And now we have been to the knock out round in two consecutive Cups.  (One of only 8 squads to do so.)  

Slow and steady progress.  Furthermore you see what Klinnsman is trying to do.  He is demanding a type of game that the US hasn't played before.  One that can lead to future success where a semifinal appearance is the next step we take.

Just because we are big and rich doesn't mean we can overcome a weak history and decades removed from the soccer networks in Europe.  (If you read Soccernomics you know what I mean.)  You have to build it brick by brick.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 02, 2014, 09:16:14 AM
I love Ray Ratto's take on the whole thing.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/earthquakes/what-does-mean-soccer-america-who-gives-damn

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 02, 2014, 09:42:32 AM
Considering all went to crap 22 minutes into the Cup, the team and Klinsi did a good job of manufacturing what they could. They may not have jumped leaps and bounds into the dominant force that so many snobbish self-righteous nose sneering folks (a few in this thread join that crowd) want but to be versatile enough to play different systems game to game and have impact subs off the bench is progress not to be laughed at.

It is humorous that the US soccer program is now in a position of having gained respect from the traditionally snobbish but will deal with the newly snobbish that constantly point to being outclassed and bemoan never having the best athletes in the country playing the game or generally finding any bit of negativity to exploit and condemn as a sign that our program is amateurish at best with only moments of "fun" involved.

Not to mention we just survived the Group of Death. Just off the top of my head, Germany, Portugal, Ghana, Belgium... did any other team play a more difficult group of teams? And if you're going to knock Portugal d/t their injury problems, then you have to admit the same about the US.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 02, 2014, 09:44:58 AM
I can't cheer for a country where some of the citizenry kills its players when they don't play well....just doesn't seem right. 

His shooting and the own goal were not correlated at all. My grandpa, uncles, aunts etc. who all still live there never let me forget that often misunderstood fact. Watch the 30 for 30 on that team. Plus Colombia is completely different than it was 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 09:47:18 AM
Considering all went to crap 22 minutes into the Cup, the team and Klinsi did a good job of manufacturing what they could. They may not have jumped leaps and bounds into the dominant force that so many snobbish self-righteous nose sneering folks (a few in this thread join that crowd) want but to be versatile enough to play different systems game to game and have impact subs off the bench is progress not to be laughed at.

It is humorous that the US soccer program is now in a position of having gained respect from the traditionally snobbish but will deal with the newly snobbish that constantly point to being outclassed and bemoan never having the best athletes in the country playing the game or generally finding any bit of negativity to exploit and condemn as a sign that our program is amateurish at best with only moments of "fun" involved.

Golden, it sounds like you are upset with me, no need to beat about the bush. 

I believe I clearly said we have made progress.  Sultan points it out as well.  I haven't said differently.  I believe the difference between where I'm at and where some of you are at is where we are today.  We are better than we were 25 years ago, better than 10 years ago, better than 4 years ago.  Absolutely.  That doesn't mean we have gotten there yet, but some of you (I'll come out and say it...you, Henry, others) in my opinion are putting us at a level based on your heart, optimism, and near misses and not on reality.  For that, you seem to be upset about it.

Do you not agree that the best athletes in this country still play other sports?  Hopefully that continues to change.  Maybe with some mommies protecting kids from playing football, more will play soccer...perhaps a benefit there.  Our athleticism has gotten much better, but that is going to be an uphill climb for some time to be where it needs to be.

So please, with all due respect, don't paint me or someone else as negative toward the team.  There is a difference between negativity and reality, and when one's heart is in it I think folks don't recognize it and reflexively go into anyone that lays out valid reasons of weakness of the team, they are somehow negative.  I was thrilled with the journey and most of the play.  BUT, as teams progress and get better, the expectations go up.  Seems you may want it both ways.  If we are going to be at the level some of you  think we are at or knocking the door to become, then the expectations, criticism, etc will follow.  They are attached at the hip.

As for the 22 minute comment, I disagree.  This is a team sport, which of course can be dominated to some extent by people like Messi, etc.  Altidore is not at that level.  Good player, wish we had someone on the team that could have stepped in, but the staff chose to leave that barren and got burned by it.  The team did well, never quit, had moments of wonderful play, gritty as hell, but the eyeballs in my head clearly don't deceive me....we have a considerable ways to go despite all the progress of the last 25 years.  The next step is a big step.  Feel free to disagree, or call it negative...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 09:49:53 AM

Exactly.

**25 years ago we had to beat Trinidad & Tobago just to get to the Finals.

**16 years ago we had a disaster of a performance finishing dead last in a group and losing to the likes of Iran.

**And now we have been to the knock out round in two consecutive Cups.  (One of only 8 squads to do so.)  

Slow and steady progress.  Furthermore you see what Klinnsman is trying to do.  He is demanding a type of game that the US hasn't played before.  One that can lead to future success where a semifinal appearance is the next step we take.

Just because we are big and rich doesn't mean we can overcome a weak history and decades removed from the soccer networks in Europe.  (If you read Soccernomics you know what I mean.)  You have to build it brick by brick.

Do not disagree with this at all.  My point is the next step is a really big one.  In the meantime, you keep building brick by brick, get better athletes committed to the game, etc.  That next step is big, it is also really difficult.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 02, 2014, 09:57:55 AM
Speaking of getting better athletes in our talent pool, Yedlin earned himself a boatload of money this cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 11:57:50 AM
Let's not forget, the "Group of Death" was a moniker put on by the pundits BEFORE the tournament.  The media ran with it.  It was based on rankings and other things, though even before the tournament started it lost that title, but hasn't stopped people from saying it at every turn. 

http://www.mlssoccer.com/worldcup/2014/news/article/2014/04/14/group-g-no-longer-the-group-of-death


Others have labeled the actual Group of Death to be group D

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-351502-costa-rica-ready-for-greece-after-surviving-group-of-death.html


Others have said group B.

http://www.businessinsider.com/group-of-death-2014-6


At the end of the day, impossible to know.  The ratings system is not great, to put it mildly.  Not every team plays everyone else, plus no one team is the same from match to match and certainly not year to year due to contractual commitments, etc of individual players.

USA soccer did quite well, but the Group of Death thing is a bit overblown. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 02, 2014, 12:26:39 PM
I believe I clearly said we have made progress.  Sultan points it out as well.  I haven't said differently.  I believe the difference between where I'm at and where some of you are at is where we are today.  We are better than we were 25 years ago, better than 10 years ago, better than 4 years ago.  Absolutely.  That doesn't mean we have gotten there yet, but some of you (I'll come out and say it...you, Henry, others) in my opinion are putting us at a level based on your heart, optimism, and near misses and not on reality.  For that, you seem to be upset about it.

You misinterpret my position.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 02, 2014, 12:32:17 PM
Our group was the group of death. Don't care who said it or when. All 4 teams would have made other groups tougher.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 02, 2014, 12:39:42 PM
I'm really excited for Copa America 2016


Has this been approved by FIFA yet?  If not, the clubs aren't required to release players to their national teams.  Since this is basically an exhibition (because a Confederations Cup spot is not at stake), and directly conflicts with Euro 2016, I am not sure it becomes an official event - which may mean the top players skip it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 02, 2014, 12:47:22 PM
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/world-cup-pass-move-the-boys-of-summer/

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/men-in-blazers/95/post/1928653/bennett-despite-exitus-has-bright-futu

http://www.espnfc.us/team/united-states/660/blog/post/1928591/future-of-us-outshines-the-present

BTW, forgot to mention that Tim Howard had one of the best performances by a GK or, really, any position, ever yesterday. Just incredible.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 02, 2014, 12:49:28 PM

Has this been approved by FIFA yet?  If not, the clubs aren't required to release players to their national teams.  Since this is basically an exhibition (because a Confederations Cup spot is not at stake), and directly conflicts with Euro 2016, I am not sure it becomes an official event - which may mean the top players skip it.

No, it's not official yet. And I agree with everything you say if it's not official/approved, which would mean my enthusiasm... diminishes
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brandx on July 02, 2014, 01:12:37 PM


BTW, forgot to mention that Tim Howard had one of the best performances by a GK or, really, any position, ever yesterday. Just incredible.

As a non-soccer fan trying to be interested, that was the only positive I saw in the tournament for the US. We were completely and utterly dominated in both of the last two games, and without the play of Howard, we would all be bemoaning the sad state of American soccer. Could easily have been a 4-0 or 5-0 game yesterday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 02, 2014, 01:16:58 PM
Do not disagree with this at all.  My point is the next step is a really big one.  In the meantime, you keep building brick by brick, get better athletes committed to the game, etc.  That next step is big, it is also really difficult.

What is the next step to you?  And by what metric are we measuring the meeting of this next step?

The US faced a very tough group, even if you don't want to call them such, had to travel the most of anyone in the field, played in some very challenging conditions and advanced to the Round of 16 for the 2nd cup in a row (only 8 other teams have done that).  They nearly stole the game to advance to the Quarters.

Yes there is work to do and improvements to be made but there is talent and capability there and into the future.  Look at the backline, what was once a question mark is now very solid barring a catastrophic injury or two.  Midfield should be pretty solid and the forwards should get better with time.  There is a very strong core that needs depth to build behind it.

Could the US step back, sure...but they could just as likely step forward in the next 4 years.  I don't follow what objective criteria you are following that allows you to say as a "realist" that they have a long way to go.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 02, 2014, 01:21:20 PM
I think Chicos has the same opinion as Bill Barnwell of Grantland:

"After the loss Tuesday, pundits seemed to agree on the next step for the United States. We know the Americans can compete with the best teams in the world. The next level is to compete with them without having to rely on overly defensive tactics and goalkeeping heroics. That requires more creative, skillful players in attack."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 02, 2014, 01:28:24 PM
I keep coming up with more thoughts:

-Not surprised Wondo missed. I was mad that he even made the roster. That was a classic poacher's goal that he has to put away. As his reputation precedes him, he missed. Crap. As was spoken about earlier, should the media/fans be absolutely going nuts on the guy who made it to Brazil for the sole reason of scoring and he couldn't convert? Is that an indictment on where we are as a soccer culture in the US?

-That set piece that almost tied it up was beautiful. Clint was a missed touch away from being a hero again.

-I'm buying a Yedlin jersey. Maybe a Green jersey.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 02, 2014, 01:42:42 PM
I keep coming up with more thoughts:

-Not surprised Wondo missed. I was mad that he even made the roster. That was a classic poacher's goal that he has to put away. As his reputation precedes him, he missed. Crap. As was spoken about earlier, should the media/fans be absolutely going nuts on the guy who made it to Brazil for the sole reason of scoring and he couldn't convert? Is that an indictment on where we are as a soccer culture in the US?


Does Donovan make that goal?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 02, 2014, 01:45:55 PM

Does Donovan make that goal?

I don't know. I don't know if any of the cut 7 do. But that wasn't really my point.

another good article: https://medium.com/the-cauldron/the-last-time-we-die-bravely-4e4e2efd5997

Lots of intriguing thoughts about the future: https://twitter.com/John_Infante
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 01:45:58 PM
Our group was the group of death. Don't care who said it or when. All 4 teams would have made other groups tougher.

The same system used to label it the group of death when the pairings came out was updated with new rankings, showing it is no longer the group of death.

Kind of ironic. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 02, 2014, 01:56:12 PM
I keep coming up with more thoughts:

-Not surprised Wondo missed. I was mad that he even made the roster. That was a classic poacher's goal that he has to put away. As his reputation precedes him, he missed. Crap. As was spoken about earlier, should the media/fans be absolutely going nuts on the guy who made it to Brazil for the sole reason of scoring and he couldn't convert? Is that an indictment on where we are as a soccer culture in the US?

I think that your link on the future vs the present highlights that a little bit. However, I also think that a lot of the perspective is that Belgium totally deserved to win.

39 shots by Belgium!

http://thebiglead.com/2014/07/02/gif-heres-a-look-at-all-the-shots-belgium-took-against-the-u-s/

related: This article tells a tale of three parts.

Part one: 0-60 min (Slight advantage for Belgium, with xG 0.7 - 1.2)
Part two: 60-105 (Belgium dominates, xG 0.6 - 2.8)
Part three: 105-120 (US rallies but it's not enough, xG 1.5 - 0.4)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2014/07/02/what-went-wrong-for-the-u-s-against-belgium/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on July 02, 2014, 01:56:32 PM
My two great sport passions are Marquette Basketball and the USMNT.  The parallels of supporting these two teams is interesting:

- Rosters turnover every year, but in general, there is an approximately 4 year cycle

- My expectation is to perform and compete for league championship, do well in tournaments and compete in the biggest competition
++ MUBB - compete for, occasionally win the Big East conference.  Compete for, occasionally win the Big East Tournament.  Look good and make the sweet sixteen in the NCAA tournament
++ USMNT - compete for, and generally qualify for the World Cup.  Compete for, and generally win, the Gold Cup.  Battle in the group stage, and make the knock out (also sweet 16) of the World Cup

- In both cases, the dream of winning the big tournament (NCAA and WC) seems very far away

- In both cases, the reason it seems very far away is talent

Because of all of the above, I have chosen to focus on the achievable / accessible areas of fan-dom for each team.  I absolutely love going to the Big East tournament, and USMNT WC Qualifiers, for example.   Falling short of winning March Madness and the World Cup is never really a concern of mine.  Someday, perhaps, that will be a realistic goal; but it's not now.  Right now, I enjoy the journey of each team, and getting to know the constantly changing cast of players.


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 02, 2014, 01:57:39 PM
I think that your link on the future vs the present highlights that a little bit. However, I also think that a lot of the perspective is that Belgium totally deserved to win.

39 shots by Belgium!

http://thebiglead.com/2014/07/02/gif-heres-a-look-at-all-the-shots-belgium-took-against-the-u-s/

related: This article tells a tale of three parts.

Part one: 0-60 min (Slight advantage for Belgium, with xG 0.7 - 1.2)
Part two: 60-105 (Belgium dominates, xG 0.6 - 2.8)
Part three: 105-120 (US rallies but it's not enough, xG 1.5 - 0.4)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2014/07/02/what-went-wrong-for-the-u-s-against-belgium/


No disagreement here. But, just like Ghana, even though they should have won, we had the chance and needed to convert. We didn't. Oh well I guess
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 02, 2014, 02:09:45 PM
I think that your link on the future vs the present highlights that a little bit. However, I also think that a lot of the perspective is that Belgium totally deserved to win.

39 shots by Belgium!

http://thebiglead.com/2014/07/02/gif-heres-a-look-at-all-the-shots-belgium-took-against-the-u-s/

related: This article tells a tale of three parts.

Part one: 0-60 min (Slight advantage for Belgium, with xG 0.7 - 1.2)
Part two: 60-105 (Belgium dominates, xG 0.6 - 2.8)
Part three: 105-120 (US rallies but it's not enough, xG 1.5 - 0.4)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2014/07/02/what-went-wrong-for-the-u-s-against-belgium/


That's the beauty of soccer, there is no such thing as a team deserving to win.  You can look at all the stats but the score in just about every sport but soccer and get the winning team right 95% of the time...not the same with soccer.

FYI 67.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 02, 2014, 02:12:36 PM
For all the talk of the US not having enough talent, the U20 WC and the Olympics, in particular, should be interesting to follow.

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2014/7/1/5862612/us-soccer-2015-gold-cup-womens-world-cup

Lots of intriguing thoughts about the future: https://twitter.com/John_Infante

I very much enjoyed this.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 02, 2014, 02:19:12 PM
That's the beauty of soccer, there is no such thing as a team deserving to win.  You can look at all the stats but the score in just about every sport but soccer and get the winning team right 95% of the time...not the same with soccer.

FYI 67.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

There's just higher variance between what should happen and what does happen in soccer, but there's still a good correlation between a team that should win and a team that does win.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 02:21:50 PM
What is the next step to you?  And by what metric are we measuring the meeting of this next step?

The US faced a very tough group, even if you don't want to call them such, had to travel the most of anyone in the field, played in some very challenging conditions and advanced to the Round of 16 for the 2nd cup in a row (only 8 other teams have done that).  They nearly stole the game to advance to the Quarters.

Yes there is work to do and improvements to be made but there is talent and capability there and into the future.  Look at the backline, what was once a question mark is now very solid barring a catastrophic injury or two.  Midfield should be pretty solid and the forwards should get better with time.  There is a very strong core that needs depth to build behind it.

Could the US step back, sure...but they could just as likely step forward in the next 4 years.  I don't follow what objective criteria you are following that allows you to say as a "realist" that they have a long way to go.

First, I didn't call it a non-tough group or easy or anything of the kind.  Merely, it wasn't necessarily the group of death that it was positioned as up front.  Tough group, we did well.

If we would have won yesterday, it would absolutely been a steal, but sometimes the best team doesn't always win in sports and certainly Belgium would have felt that way yesterday.


Next step for me is having the ability to go on the field knowing in advance that we are close to equal at every position for the starters.  Depth is always going to be an issue, and I suspect having us lineup man for man 1 through 23 isn't going to happen in my lifetime.  The problem as I see it today is we typically only have 3 to 5 guys as our starters that could make any of the high quality teams.  Very few of our guys could start on other high quality teams.  Doesn't mean our guys aren't good, just a half step below.  Think about it as AAA baseball, where there are some damn good players and many of them come up to the bigs and do some great things, but day in and day out they are just a slight grade lower.  That's certainly better than some of the teams we've had which were probably closer to A ball.

I look at positions like goalie, where we have done well over the years and this gets back to athleticism and traditional American sports.  I see it with my own son, who was a shortstop growing, solid volleyball player, WR in football, and is a goalie on his high school team as a freshman.  Being a goalie requires good hand, eye coordination, along with other athletic traits and kids who play other sports do well with.  One of the first things one of the Olympic Development coaches told me when watching him was "I'll bet he was a good baseball player, right?"  The answer was yes, because he had the footwork and positioning from that sport to help him with soccer.  It's the other positions that don't translate quite as well, in my opinion, that we have to get better at, and part of that is having better athletes. 

I'll give you one further personal anecdote.  When I was younger, I played for a California select team that toured Denmark and West Germany in soccer.  We were quite good, we thought.  We did well in the competition overseas, much to the surprise of our hosts.  The next year, the West Germans came to California to play us.  It was a bloodbath.  We were so outclassed it was incredible, despite playing toe to toe with them the year prior and winning most of our games.  When they decided to take it seriously, it was annihilation.  I was fortunate enough to play with and against guys that ended up on the US national team later in life.  Today, those guys probably couldn't make the US National team, and that is progress alone, but until we can get 5 to 7 guys on the field that would start for those other teams, and say another 5 to 8 guys on the field that would at least make those other teams, we have a long way to go.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 02:27:36 PM
That's the beauty of soccer, there is no such thing as a team deserving to win.  You can look at all the stats but the score in just about every sport but soccer and get the winning team right 95% of the time...not the same with soccer.

FYI 67.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Many futbol purists would disagree with that statement.  In fact, I would argue it's the one sport more than any in which many people feel exactly that way.  A team can dominate, but one random breakaway or fluke own goal can mean a bad result.  It can happen in hockey to some extent and even baseball to a lesser extent, but with soccer it is often expressed in Europe and South America around terms of what team deserved to win.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 02:36:00 PM
My two great sport passions are Marquette Basketball and the USMNT.  The parallels of supporting these two teams is interesting:

- Rosters turnover every year, but in general, there is an approximately 4 year cycle

- My expectation is to perform and compete for league championship, do well in tournaments and compete in the biggest competition
++ MUBB - compete for, occasionally win the Big East conference.  Compete for, occasionally win the Big East Tournament.  Look good and make the sweet sixteen in the NCAA tournament
++ USMNT - compete for, and generally qualify for the World Cup.  Compete for, and generally win, the Gold Cup.  Battle in the group stage, and make the knock out (also sweet 16) of the World Cup

- In both cases, the dream of winning the big tournament (NCAA and WC) seems very far away

- In both cases, the reason it seems very far away is talent

Because of all of the above, I have chosen to focus on the achievable / accessible areas of fan-dom for each team.  I absolutely love going to the Big East tournament, and USMNT WC Qualifiers, for example.   Falling short of winning March Madness and the World Cup is never really a concern of mine.  Someday, perhaps, that will be a realistic goal; but it's not now.  Right now, I enjoy the journey of each team, and getting to know the constantly changing cast of players.




Definitely some similarities, but you are much closer on the MU side than the WC side. MU can and has had some of the top players in call of college basketball on their team, while the US rarely, if ever can say that in soccer.  For hoops, having 1, 2 or 3 guys can make all the difference in the world, where soccer it requires more talent in volume.

Soccer is also a more difficult game to breakthrough, where Cinderella exists with the crap shoot that is college basketball.  You don't see a Butler type run happening in the World Cup.  In the last 10 WC finals, spanning 40 years the finalists have been Italy, Germany, Brazil, France, Spain, Argentina and the Dutch.  That's it. Go back another few decades, and Uruguay, Hungary, the Czechs and England's one appearance, but the list is small.  The powers are the powers.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on July 02, 2014, 02:50:56 PM
Definitely some similarities, but you are much closer on the MU side than the WC side. MU can and has had some of the top players in call of college basketball on their team, while the US rarely, if ever can say that in soccer.  For hoops, having 1, 2 or 3 guys can make all the difference in the world, where soccer it requires more talent in volume.

Soccer is also a more difficult game to breakthrough, where Cinderella exists with the crap shoot that is college basketball.  You don't see a Butler type run happening in the World Cup.  In the last 10 WC finals, spanning 40 years the finalists have been Italy, Germany, Brazil, France, Spain, Argentina and the Dutch.  That's it. Go back another few decades, and Uruguay, Hungary, the Czechs and England's one appearance, but the list is small.  The powers are the powers.

100% agree with all points.

Also, with hoops, you at least have the opportunity to recruit the highest level talent.  With International soccer it's not like you can just magically make players eligible for your country (not yet at least; looking at you FIFA).

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 02:56:44 PM
"We cannot win this World Cup, because we are not at that level yet," "For us, we have to play the game of our lives seven times to win the tournament."
-Klinsmann


That, is reality.  That is not someone being negative.  That is someone as a realist.  

It's not what is said here, it is who says the what.



(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--PN-fXz05--/ds6gv82i35bmlysydekh.jpg)

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 02, 2014, 03:12:28 PM
That, is reality.  That is not someone being negative.  That is someone as a realist.  

It's not what is said here, it is who says the what.

Being called Eeyore really bugged you, huh?

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrg0s7pTnt1qzpcg0o1_500.gif)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 02, 2014, 03:26:28 PM
"We cannot win this World Cup, because we are not at that level yet," "For us, we have to play the game of our lives seven times to win the tournament."
-Klinsmann


That, is reality.  That is not someone being negative.  That is someone as a realist.  

It's not what is said here, it is who says the what.


Did anyone here actually say we could win the whole thing? or that anyone expected that?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 02, 2014, 03:35:22 PM
Did anyone here actually say we could win the whole thing? or that anyone expected that?

Of course not. But, as with everything, it has to be about positioning themselves against the majority whether logically or not.

Back to actual events, anyone harbor ill will for Gonzo's weak clearance effort on the first goal?
Anyone harbor ill will against Besler for being muscled by Lukaku on the first and caught napping on Lukaku's run for the second?
Anyone harbor ill will when the US needed ball control and some creativity we didn't see Mix?
Anyone harbor ill will we didn't see Mix for one minute in this Cup?
Anyone harbor ill will against Eric Wynalda and his ass-hattery?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
Being called Eeyore really bugged you, huh?

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrg0s7pTnt1qzpcg0o1_500.gif)

Actually what bugs me is people's daily incorrect understanding of the difference between reality, pessimism and opportunism.  Look a lot of people called Klinsmann negative, a lot of people were wrong.  Like you in this case.   ;)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 03:45:15 PM
Did anyone here actually say we could win the whole thing? or that anyone expected that?

Nope, but plenty of people said Klinsmann was negative and a pessimist.  Some reporters called for his firing.  Personally, I loved his refreshing response. Too many sunshine pumpers in life and way way way too many people that come down on those that bring the truth when they would rather have the sunshine.

I'll take it straight, keep the sunshine.   Somewhere schools stopped teaching the difference between pessimism and realism.  I'd blame common core, but it hasn't been around long enough.  One can still believe and support in a result, but also be realistic on what is likely.  To some, that is negative.  Perhaps too nuanced for them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 03:49:57 PM
Of course not. But, as with everything, it has to be about positioning themselves against the majority whether logically or not.


I also said no, no one said it.  That wasn't the point.  Not sure I understand your answer at all.  How is anything I said illogical or against the majority, whatever that means?  Can you clarify?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 02, 2014, 03:52:37 PM
Actually what bugs me is people's daily incorrect understanding of the difference between reality, pessimism and opportunism.  Look a lot of people called Klinsmann negative, a lot of people were wrong.  Like you in this case.   ;)

I never called Klinsmann negative. Klinsmann gets the right to be realistic. He's the technical director for US Soccer, the Head Coach for the USMNT, and he's won a World Cup. Also, Klinsmann is German.

You had a negative opinion about our chances and then congratulated yourself for being right. Hope you feel good about that.

(http://www.thetablebellingham.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/eeyore-1-181x300.gif)

Finally, I'm done talking about Chicos in this thread. This thread is about soccer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 04:01:08 PM
I never called Klinsmann negative. Klinsmann gets the right to be realistic. He's the technical director for US Soccer, the Head Coach for the USMNT, and he's won a World Cup. Also, Klinsmann is German.

You had a negative opinion about our chances and then congratulated yourself for being right. Hope you feel good about that.

Again, fundamental lack of understanding.  I did not have a negative opinion about our chances, I had a REALISTIC opinion about our chances.  Your understanding is lacking here.

I never said you called Klinsmann negative, that's not the point.  Klinsmann knew what we had, so did others.  He was being realistic, as were others.

After you told me how I was wrong in this thread, sure I was glad to be right, but not glad at the result.  Surely you can understand this difference.  I cheered wildly for the US to win, believed we could win, but realistically thought we wouldn't. All are possible, in fact that's exactly what happened.

You're a smart guy, one that normally bases his posts on logic so I'm not sure why you have so much emotion in this one that you can't discern the difference.  It's truly not that hard.  

(http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/resist-emotion-and-use-logic.png)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 02, 2014, 04:22:03 PM
There's an obvious disclaimer that it's way too early, but there were a lot of names with which I was unfamiliar.

http://thebiglead.com/2014/07/02/2018-us-world-cup-roster-projecting-the-23-man-squad/

Also, one of the names listed (Andrija Novakovich) was a MU Soccer commit that turned down the scholie to go play professionally.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 02, 2014, 10:21:57 PM
http://www.espnfc.us/team/united-states/660/blog/post/1929404/us-world-cup-player-rankings

Thoughts?

Feels about right to me. Some of the subs (Brooks, Green) may be a bit high.

Still wonder how much different the Belgium game would have been if we'd kept Becks in the starting lineup and added Mix in the second half
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2014, 10:30:41 PM
I love Ray Ratto's take on the whole thing.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/earthquakes/what-does-mean-soccer-america-who-gives-damn



I'd say he hit a homerun with that article.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 77ncaachamps on July 02, 2014, 11:04:15 PM
You knew it was coming:

http://www.pandawill.com/cool-luis-alberto-suarez-bottle-opener-in-world-cup-with-vivid-bite-image-p90700.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 03, 2014, 09:46:05 AM
http://www.espnfc.us/team/united-states/660/blog/post/1929404/us-world-cup-player-rankings

Thoughts?

Feels about right to me. Some of the subs (Brooks, Green) may be a bit high.

Still wonder how much different the Belgium game would have been if we'd kept Becks in the starting lineup and added Mix in the second half

Green too high. The cameo is stuff of legend but really just prologue to his emergence in Russia.

Davis far too high. Thought his time against Germany was utterly forgettable.

Hard on Bedoya. One of the best tacklers of the Cup. Thought he provided underrated cover for our midfield.

I like Gonzo but fifth is too high. Weak clearance led to De Bruyne goal and he failed to mark Mert giving him a free header in the box which lead to Mueller's goal.

Wondo should be #23. In a "real" soccer country, he'd be getting death threats for such a terrible miss. Debate whether that's a positive or not.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 03, 2014, 09:58:56 AM
More on predictions for the 2018 roster. Plenty of GIFs and youtuble clips.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/worldcup/2014/news/article/2014/07/03/world-cup-predicting-2018-usmnt-roster-armchair-analyst

Nice to see Harry Shipp pop up on the list.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 03, 2014, 11:17:00 AM
A lot of people sleeping on Marc Pelosi. Liverpool was very high on him before his injury in 2013. Could be valuable as he can play wide, and centrally in the midfield.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 03, 2014, 12:45:16 PM
Two names I don't see that while I'm not surprised aren't on the lists should be....Brek Shea and Stuart Holden.  I know Holden has pissed off the ACL gods but if he is healthy he could be special.  Brek has had a couple of tough breaks but if he matures a little he could be our best option at wing in 2018.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2014, 01:00:16 PM
Klinsmann...."a lot of work ahead"

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_26078833/world-cup-klinsmann-says-u-s-soccer-has


I especially like the comment about the fact American players don't face the condemnation from the community when they play poorly.  Someone here asked how you know when we take the next step....that's a big part of it.  When we don't make excuses, when we expect to win, when we aren't just happy we give another country a good game and when we aren't that team nobody wants to play (it implies we are gritty, won't give up, hustle our butts off but also implies we don't have the talent).  That's when we have arrived.

A lot of work ahead, still quite a long way to go.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 03, 2014, 01:06:55 PM
Somewhat trite, but I enjoyed it regardless.

http://babb.telegraph.co.uk/2014/07/33-reasons-why-we-love-the-us-mens-soccer-team/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 03, 2014, 02:31:59 PM
Two names I don't see that while I'm not surprised aren't on the lists should be....Brek Shea and Stuart Holden.  I know Holden has pissed off the ACL gods but if he is healthy he could be special.  Brek has had a couple of tough breaks but if he matures a little he could be our best option at wing in 2018.

Love Stu Holden, one of my favorite USMNT players in a long time, but he's a month away from 29.  At this point, I would just be happy if he could carve out a few successful seasons for Championship or EPL sides.  I can't see him in the National Team picture at all going forward.

Shea is going to keep falling down the lists of preferred wingers as more talent comes up and he keeps mucking up opportunities.  I like his energy and creativity on the ball, but he was terrible at Stoke and then did himself no favors on loan at Barnsley.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2014, 02:53:31 PM
Somewhat trite, but I enjoyed it regardless.

http://babb.telegraph.co.uk/2014/07/33-reasons-why-we-love-the-us-mens-soccer-team/



This photo, unfortunately, doesn't tell a good story in my view.  It's great that people are in Cowboys stadium watching on the big screen, but also shows rather coldly how an average Cowboys team packs 100K a game in there and many empty seats for arguably the biggest soccer game for the US in decades, maybe ever.  I know Soldier Field had 25K, which is nice I guess.

(http://d1p3t35jiqtse7.cloudfront.net/content/uploads/2014/07/screen.jpg)


It will be interesting to see where things go.  My sense is this is more of an every 4 year thing for the most part from American sports fans, but you will see some slight upticks this year with MLS, etc.  The quality of that league will make it tough to keep people watching for the long haul, however.  You may see some spikes again with the major tournaments.  Hope to be wrong, but we are a nation of what is hot.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 03, 2014, 03:49:08 PM
Couple good articles:

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2014/7/3/5864221/potential-usmnt-players-to-watch-during-the-2018-world-cup-cycle

http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/07/klinsmann-planning-movement.html

Oh. And this one. Tough to tell when he's being realistic: http://www.espnfc.us/united-states/story/1929437/jurgen-klinsmann-says-united-states-now-in-position-to-win-a-world-cup

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 03, 2014, 03:54:28 PM
Sour grapes or insight? http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/07/donovan-tactical-world.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2014, 04:00:04 PM
Sour grapes or insight? http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/07/donovan-tactical-world.html

Honestly, I don't think Klinsmann had much choice.  Agree with Donovan that we didn't necessarily set ourselves up for success, but it was risk vs reward.  We went with a defensive posture, prayed we could keep them out of the back of the net and perhaps we get lucky.  It almost happened.  If we went for the attack, I have visions of a 3 or 4 to zero game.  We will never know, perhaps he is right.  Maybe we would have worn them out or potentially exposed their backs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brandx on July 03, 2014, 04:03:35 PM

This photo, unfortunately, doesn't tell a good story in my view.  It's great that people are in Cowboys stadium watching on the big screen, but also shows rather coldly how an average Cowboys team packs 100K a game in there and many empty seats for arguably the biggest soccer game for the US in decades, maybe ever.  I know Soldier Field had 25K, which is nice I guess.

It will be interesting to see where things go.  My sense is this is more of an every 4 year thing for the most part from American sports fans, but you will see some slight upticks this year with MLS, etc.  The quality of that league will make it tough to keep people watching for the long haul, however.  You may see some spikes again with the major tournaments.  Hope to be wrong, but we are a nation of what is hot.

Most of us who are not soccer fans find it stunningly boring. Way, way too many teams with no offense whatsoever. Teams not even trying to score and putting their entire hopes in a shootout.

And watching the US play isn't going to bring new fans to the game in this country. Even a very casual fan who is not into the game at all (like me) could see how hopelessly outclassed the US was in their last two games. Only the historic play of Howard kept the last game from being a monumental thrashing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on July 03, 2014, 04:26:36 PM

This photo, unfortunately, doesn't tell a good story in my view.  It's great that people are in Cowboys stadium watching on the big screen, but also shows rather coldly how an average Cowboys team packs 100K a game in there and many empty seats for arguably the biggest soccer game for the US in decades, maybe ever.  I know Soldier Field had 25K, which is nice I guess.

(http://d1p3t35jiqtse7.cloudfront.net/content/uploads/2014/07/screen.jpg)


It will be interesting to see where things go.  My sense is this is more of an every 4 year thing for the most part from American sports fans, but you will see some slight upticks this year with MLS, etc.  The quality of that league will make it tough to keep people watching for the long haul, however.  You may see some spikes again with the major tournaments.  Hope to be wrong, but we are a nation of what is hot.

Cmon man,  I know you are better than this.   These stadium watches had 2-3 days notice,  with both of the stadiums you mentioned with a 3pm start,  requiring people to take the whole day off to get there,  and watch.  I know here in Boston,  bars were packed,  people left work early,  companies streamed it for their employees,  it was different this year,  just admit it,  it was.
 

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on July 03, 2014, 04:53:50 PM

This photo, unfortunately, doesn't tell a good story in my view.  It's great that people are in Cowboys stadium watching on the big screen, but also shows rather coldly how an average Cowboys team packs 100K a game in there and many empty seats for arguably the biggest soccer game for the US in decades, maybe ever.  I know Soldier Field had 25K, which is nice I guess.

(http://d1p3t35jiqtse7.cloudfront.net/content/uploads/2014/07/screen.jpg)



This is so silly.  If the US - Belgium match was live at the Cowboy stadium, it would be sold out.  If this was a Cowboys Super Bowl watch party, there would be like 5k people there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2014, 05:13:30 PM
Cmon man,  I know you are better than this.   These stadium watches had 2-3 days notice,  with both of the stadiums you mentioned with a 3pm start,  requiring people to take the whole day off to get there,  and watch.  I know here in Boston,  bars were packed,  people left work early,  companies streamed it for their employees,  it was different this year,  just admit it,  it was.


Reinko, I get it.  At the same time, to become "big time" or to take that next step it has to be bigger than that.  This only happens once every 4 years, the excitement SHOULD be there.

The bars thing, sure.  I was at one for one of the games as well.  It was fun, but I'm not going to go overboard on it.  That's a destination for the passionate and motivated.  For the passionate, its big time.  For some of the casual fans, certainly fun.  For many folks, like Brandx, not much.  We had it on every tv in the building.  There were folks very into it, and many that watched not one second of it.

Honest question, because it is asked EVERY time the WC takes place and the predictions that soccer will explode in this country....what are your expectations in terms of viewership, attendance, euphoria over the next 3 years, especially after the next 6 months when the halo effect disappears.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2014, 05:19:08 PM
This is so silly.  If the US - Belgium match was live at the Cowboy stadium, it would be sold out.  If this was a Cowboys Super Bowl watch party, there would be like 5k people there.

Actually if it was a Super Bowl watch party involving the Cowboys, it would be sold out, but I get your  point.  Certainly that type of game would draw well and likely sell out at Cowboys stadium if Belgium and the US played.  I've been to my share of US games at the Rose Bowl, including playing Mexico where the US fans are actually in the minority..sad to see, so that's not the issue in my view.  We have to get it to a point of being something more than just the soccer diehards.

People will go to a baseball, football, basketball game even if they don't like the sport.  Tomorrow going to the Angels game with the family, not everyone is a baseball fan but it's something to do.  No way in hell I could get the family to go to the Galaxy game tomorrow night as an example.  Too many casual sports fans that get into this every 4 years, but that's as good as it gets.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 77ncaachamps on July 03, 2014, 05:33:25 PM
How much were they charging in Dallas for the viewing party?

ZILCH.
It was free.
http://soccerblog.dallasnews.com/2014/06/cowboys-att-stadium-to-host-free-u-s-belgium-world-cup-watching-party-tuesday.html/


So why was it empty?

- Bars are more intimate.
- You can watch it at home...in A/C.
- The Beer and Food are MUCH cheaper outside the stadium.
- High school football teams were scrimmaging that day.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 04, 2014, 08:11:41 AM
Yeah, I would have no interest in watching the game in Cowboys Stadium, or any other stadium.  My first choice is home.  My second choice is a bar with a good view.  My third choice is to follow on Twitter or something.  Really, if I lived in Dallas, why would I want to leave my home with my nice television to drive to Arlington to watch the game on a video board?

And yeah it does show why Cowboys Stadium doesn't give their team any home field advantage.  Too big and too comfortable.

BTW, this was interesting.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_spot/2014/07/03/world_cup_player_introductions_a_deep_analysis_of_how_soccer_players_fold.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 04, 2014, 03:21:47 PM
I guess we know why aron didn't play more in Brazil.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 04, 2014, 04:57:47 PM
Yeah, I would have no interest in watching the game in Cowboys Stadium, or any other stadium.  My first choice is home.  My second choice is a bar with a good view.  My third choice is to follow on Twitter or something.  Really, if I lived in Dallas, why would I want to leave my home with my nice television to drive to Arlington to watch the game on a video board?

And yeah it does show why Cowboys Stadium doesn't give their team any home field advantage.  Too big and too comfortable.

BTW, this was interesting.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_spot/2014/07/03/world_cup_player_introductions_a_deep_analysis_of_how_soccer_players_fold.html

Soldier Field had 25K in it.  Pick a stadium.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 04, 2014, 05:00:53 PM
I guess you didn't read my entire post.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 04, 2014, 05:04:13 PM
His shooting and the own goal were not correlated at all. My grandpa, uncles, aunts etc. who all still live there never let me forget that often misunderstood fact. Watch the 30 for 30 on that team. Plus Colombia is completely different than it was 20 years ago.

To say there was no correlation ignores every report on the crime, including those published just in the last two days.  Simply put, nothing has been proven.  They simply don't know, but they do know that he was harassed in the bar last night as people were yelling "own goal" to him and then he left.  His fiancee claims with every shot they pumped into his back, they yelled "GOALLLLLL". 

http://colombiareports.co/former-colombia-soccer-player-andres-escobar-assassinated-20-years-ago-today/

http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/07/colombia_remembers_1994_murder.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/world-cup/decades-after-andres-escobar-killing-colombian-soccer-finally-recovers/article19436097/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 04, 2014, 05:51:07 PM
To say there was no correlation ignores every report on the crime, including those published just in the last two days.  Simply put, nothing has been proven.  They simply don't know, but they do know that he was harassed in the bar last night as people were yelling "own goal" to him and then he left.  His fiancee claims with every shot they pumped into his back, they yelled "GOALLLLLL". 

http://colombiareports.co/former-colombia-soccer-player-andres-escobar-assassinated-20-years-ago-today/

http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/07/colombia_remembers_1994_murder.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/world-cup/decades-after-andres-escobar-killing-colombian-soccer-finally-recovers/article19436097/

Yea well im gonna take offense when you insult my country. Anyways, im so proud of how they played this world cup and its just frusturating when the 2nd goal by Brazil shouldnt have been because of a flop that led to a free kick. Whatever, Brazil gets the home cooking again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 04, 2014, 05:55:32 PM
I guess you didn't read my entire post.

Read it entirely.  It would not be in your list of where to go.  I was specifically responding to your last point about it being too big and comfy, so I threw out Soldier Field which isn't exactly comfy nor too big, IMO.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 04, 2014, 05:59:26 PM
Yea well im gonna take offense when you insult my country. Anyways, im so proud of how they played this world cup and its just frusturating when the 2nd goal by Brazil shouldnt have been because of a flop that led to a free kick. Whatever, Brazil gets the home cooking again.

Well, Colombia has had a few issues in the past (as have all countries).  As I've noted here before, I lived close to 5 years of my life in South America and Central America.  Some wonderful people down there for the most part.  Unfortunately, an own goal may have cost that many his life.  Eric Wynalda, who was the American involved in that play with Escobar, was from my hometown and we played against each other in high school and in various other contests. I lost touch with him after high school, but would love to hear his thoughts about the entire thing.  Tragic.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 05, 2014, 12:42:46 PM
Eric Wynalda, who was the American involved in that play with Escobar, was from my hometown and we played against each other in high school and in various other contests. I lost touch with him after high school, but would love to hear his thoughts about the entire thing.  Tragic.

Given how petty and venomous he's been recently, he'd probably just use it as a platform to trash Jurgen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 05, 2014, 05:35:05 PM
120+ minute GK sub? wow
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 05, 2014, 06:45:02 PM
I went into that game leaning toward the dutch.   Their offensive scheme was so ridiculously dull I started rooting for CR. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 05, 2014, 10:43:49 PM
Dutch deserved to win that game....glad it happened for them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 05, 2014, 11:20:49 PM
This kind of bugs me

http://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/a-giant-insect-landed-on-james-rodriguezs-arm-when-he-scored
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 06, 2014, 12:34:48 PM
I went into that game leaning toward the dutch.   Their offensive scheme was so ridiculously dull I started rooting for CR. 

You don't have that backwards?  CR was playing for PKs from about the 60th minute on.  No counter attacking, 9-10 men behind the ball.  The few interesting opportunities they had were from individual brilliance by Ruiz or headband bro, both solo up top fighting 2-3 Dutch defenders.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 06, 2014, 09:57:09 PM
Dutch deserved to win that game....glad it happened for them.

No team "deserves" to win a game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 06, 2014, 10:45:39 PM
No team "deserves" to win a game.

Well, respectfully disagree.  I know the Dutch players feel the same way, so do a number of soccer analysts.

"The Dutch deserved to win this game"
-Alexi Lalas, ESPN Futbol analyst

"The Dutch completely deserved to win their quarter final over Costa Rica"
Michael Burgess, New Zealand Herald

"It was all that the Dutch deserved, too. Not only did they produce a nerveless shootout performance to score through Robin van Persie, Wesley Sneijder, Arjen Robben and Dirk Kuyt, they were relentless all night in the face of some remarkable misfortune."
-Ian Ladyman, DailyMail (UK)

"The wonderful, amazing, Costa Rican adventure had come to an end, while the Dutch, deservedly, march on."
-Michale Lynch, Sydney Morning Herald

"Both sides struggled to create clear openings in the final third, but it is difficult to argue that Netherlands did not deserve to come through."
-Matt Law, La Liga Correspondent Sports Mole

"Dutch scrape through. Deserved it on 120 mins of play. van Gaal masterstroke by bringing @TimKrul on. Psychological warfare."
-Joey Barton, Queens Park Rangers

"We deserved the win. They only had one chance in 117 minutes. Football won on the night"
-Arjen Robben, Dutch National Team

"There was only one team that deserved to go to the semi-finals and it was us. If you work hard you go very far."
-Wesley Sneijder, Dutch National Team

“I thought we had more quality than Costa Rica and deserved to win. I don’t know how much ball possession we had, how many times we hit the woodwork and how many chances we had – in the end it’s all about scoring.”
-Louis Van Gaal, Coach of Netherlands National Team

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on July 06, 2014, 11:04:29 PM
Never saw the total percentages of possession but CR couldn't keep the ball and it has to be very lopsided. The Orange certainly deserved the win but soccer is a cruel sport and I was worried that an unfortunate bounce was going to go against them. The best team won
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 06, 2014, 11:13:28 PM
Never saw the total percentages of possession but CR couldn't keep the ball and it has to be very lopsided. The Orange certainly deserved the win but soccer is a cruel sport and I was worried that an unfortunate bounce was going to go against them. The best team won

Agree.  It would have been like the US beating Belgium after being dominated most of the game.  Obviously you take the win, but the Belgians deserved that win.  Soccer is a very cruel game in that regard.  You can take 25 shots, hit the post 25 times, have the ball in their half 89 minutes and 30 seconds, but if one guy breaks lose and shoots the only shot of the game and it goes in, you lose.  Much different than MLB, or NFL or certainly the NBA where you can't be dominated that badly and not lose.  Hockey is the only one where I have seen some goofy things.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 06, 2014, 11:24:43 PM
Not much changes in the World Cup.

Only twice in WC history has a nation not from Europe or South America made the Final Four.  2002 with S. Korea and 1930 with the USA (where we lost 6-1 to Argentina).

Netherlands is the only one not to win the WC, but they have been a bride's maid 3 times, including the last WC.  Brazil, Germany and Argentina have won and combined 10 times in the 19 WC finals.  They have a great shot to make it 11 out of 20 and will guarantee such a result if the Dutch fall to the Argentines.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 07, 2014, 09:28:01 AM
Well, respectfully disagree.  I know the Dutch players feel the same way, so do a number of soccer analysts.

"The Dutch deserved to win this game"
-Alexi Lalas, ESPN Futbol analyst

"The Dutch completely deserved to win their quarter final over Costa Rica"
Michael Burgess, New Zealand Herald

"It was all that the Dutch deserved, too. Not only did they produce a nerveless shootout performance to score through Robin van Persie, Wesley Sneijder, Arjen Robben and Dirk Kuyt, they were relentless all night in the face of some remarkable misfortune."
-Ian Ladyman, DailyMail (UK)

"The wonderful, amazing, Costa Rican adventure had come to an end, while the Dutch, deservedly, march on."
-Michale Lynch, Sydney Morning Herald

"Both sides struggled to create clear openings in the final third, but it is difficult to argue that Netherlands did not deserve to come through."
-Matt Law, La Liga Correspondent Sports Mole

"Dutch scrape through. Deserved it on 120 mins of play. van Gaal masterstroke by bringing @TimKrul on. Psychological warfare."
-Joey Barton, Queens Park Rangers

"We deserved the win. They only had one chance in 117 minutes. Football won on the night"
-Arjen Robben, Dutch National Team

"There was only one team that deserved to go to the semi-finals and it was us. If you work hard you go very far."
-Wesley Sneijder, Dutch National Team

“I thought we had more quality than Costa Rica and deserved to win. I don’t know how much ball possession we had, how many times we hit the woodwork and how many chances we had – in the end it’s all about scoring.”
-Louis Van Gaal, Coach of Netherlands National Team

No team "deserves" to win a game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 07, 2014, 09:37:50 AM
Agree.  It would have been like the US beating Belgium after being dominated most of the game.  Obviously you take the win, but the Belgians deserved that win.  Soccer is a very cruel game in that regard.  You can take 25 shots, hit the post 25 times, have the ball in their half 89 minutes and 30 seconds, but if one guy breaks lose and shoots the only shot of the game and it goes in, you lose.  Much different than MLB, or NFL or certainly the NBA where you can't be dominated that badly and not lose.  Hockey is the only one where I have seen some goofy things.



+1. Makes hockey and soccer results much more random (crapshoot) than other sports. Glad you've seen the light.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2014, 04:40:04 PM
+1. Makes hockey and soccer results much more random (crapshoot) than other sports. Glad you've seen the light.

Except it almost never happens, which is why the same highly ranked \ seeded teams make it through.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2014, 04:40:24 PM
No team "deserves" to win a game.

Well, many disagree.  To each their own.


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 08, 2014, 04:41:55 PM
The German national team may wanna hunker down tonight. The country is gonna riot after that one.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2014, 04:42:05 PM
USA's 6-1 loss in 1930, worst ever Final Four performance is wiped out by today's performance between Germany and Brazil.


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 08, 2014, 05:00:53 PM
+1. Makes hockey and soccer results much more random (crapshoot) than other sports. Glad you've seen the light.

Three of the top five ranked teams in the world (Germany #2, Brazil #3, Argentina #5) made it to the semifinals.  Hardly random....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 08, 2014, 05:37:35 PM
Three of the top five ranked teams in the world (Germany #2, Brazil #3, Argentina #5) made it to the semifinals.  Hardly random....

Be careful. Some posters here do not believe in those rankings.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 08, 2014, 05:44:17 PM
I would not want to be a member of that Brazilian team for a while.   I don't know if the fans tonight are going to be angrier at their side for packing it in or the Germans for running roughshod, but I think medium and long term, the anger will be turned inward.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2014, 06:13:40 PM
I would not want to be a member of that Brazilian team for a while.   I don't know if the fans tonight are going to be angrier at their side for packing it in or the Germans for running roughshod, but I think medium and long term, the anger will be turned inward.   

The Brazilians spent billions of dollars on these stadiums and infrastructure with a lot of people very pissed off about it. As long as they won the thing, some would justify it.  Now, it will be interesting to see the reaction.  In some ways, I'm glad it was a totally wipeout.  If it was a close loss, you might see rioting in the streets.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on July 08, 2014, 06:30:52 PM
 Could it be that emotions were so high that they just couldn't focus? They  never organized in the back and were totally unable to regroup after the two goals. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2014, 07:06:24 PM
Could it be that emotions were so high that they just couldn't focus? They  never organized in the back and were totally unable to regroup after the two goals. 

It felt like MU in 2003 or MU two years ago against Syracuse.  It happens, even to the supposed best team in the world.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on July 08, 2014, 07:49:36 PM
They missed Silva more than Neymar.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: StillAWarrior on July 08, 2014, 08:51:00 PM
Germany just scored again. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 08, 2014, 08:53:15 PM
Germany just scored again. 

+1
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 08, 2014, 08:58:12 PM
There is literally nothing in the history of US sports that can compare to what happened. No singular sport means enough to our country to have any serious comparison to what Brazil and their soccer team went through today. It's really incredible.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 08, 2014, 09:02:21 PM
Seattle-Denver Super Bowl?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 08, 2014, 09:05:33 PM
Seattle-Denver Super Bowl?

Big loss? Yea. Upset? Maybe. But that only really affected one team's fans. Plus, I don't think Denver/Colorado has nearly the history that Brazilian soccer does. Nor the expectations on such a ferocious scale.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2014, 11:36:26 PM
There is literally nothing in the history of US sports that can compare to what happened. No singular sport means enough to our country to have any serious comparison to what Brazil and their soccer team went through today. It's really incredible.

It is major.  Perhaps if the dream team would have lost in basketball, but too many people in the states don't give a shyte about basketball.  It's not in our fabric.

A few fun conspiracy theories today, so I went to the extreme with mine.  Hey, if you're going to have a conspiracy theory, go big.

My Conspiracy theory:

The Brazilians knew they were cooked a few games ago as they have not played particularly well the entire tournament.  With the latest injury knocking Neymar out and red card situation putting their captain on the bench, they had a very small chance to win.  That said, they could have played a tough enough game and packed it in defensively to keep it close.  If they were to lose, however, by one in a close game that some would blame on the refs or Germany, mass rioting in Brazil was possible.  The Brazilian gov't was already under immense pressure because of the amount of money spent to put this party on when a good chunk of their population is in poverty and residents that used to live near these stadiums put in tent cities when rents went up so much they could no longer afford to live there, well a win was an absolute must.  Anything that was close would bring the population to a boil.

So the Brazilian gov't paid off the players to make it a total destruction, one that left mouths agape, so beyond explanation to numb the populace.  If they lose by a ton, no one can blame the refs or some other action, the anger turns to sorrow and people drinking themselves silly and sleeping it off.

Go big I say.   ;)

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 09, 2014, 12:15:37 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/RLZUKqpXYzU
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 09, 2014, 07:04:04 AM
It is major.  Perhaps if the dream team would have lost in basketball, but too many people in the states don't give a shyte about basketball.  It's not in our fabric.

A few fun conspiracy theories today, so I went to the extreme with mine.  Hey, if you're going to have a conspiracy theory, go big.

My Conspiracy theory:

The Brazilians knew they were cooked a few games ago as they have not played particularly well the entire tournament.  With the latest injury knocking Neymar out and red card situation putting their captain on the bench, they had a very small chance to win.  That said, they could have played a tough enough game and packed it in defensively to keep it close.  If they were to lose, however, by one in a close game that some would blame on the refs or Germany, mass rioting in Brazil was possible.  The Brazilian gov't was already under immense pressure because of the amount of money spent to put this party on when a good chunk of their population is in poverty and residents that used to live near these stadiums put in tent cities when rents went up so much they could no longer afford to live there, well a win was an absolute must.  Anything that was close would bring the population to a boil.

So the Brazilian gov't paid off the players to make it a total destruction, one that left mouths agape, so beyond explanation to numb the populace.  If they lose by a ton, no one can blame the refs or some other action, the anger turns to sorrow and people drinking themselves silly and sleeping it off.

Go big I say.   ;)



As far as consipracy theories go thats a pretty good one and logical but knowing how much the world cup means to Brazil I doubt the players would have bought into that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on July 09, 2014, 08:03:58 AM
There is literally nothing in the history of US sports that can compare to what happened. No singular sport means enough to our country to have any serious comparison to what Brazil and their soccer team went through today. It's really incredible.

not even the 1972 US vs. USSR mens Olympic Bball?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 09, 2014, 08:48:16 AM
not even the 1972 US vs. USSR mens Olympic Bball?


I don't think so.  Basketball doesn't mean the same thing to Americans as soccer does to Brazil.  It is part of their national identity. 

Watching the complete destruction of their national team, on their home soil, the team that supposedly plays "the beautiful game."  Chicos is right.  It seriously could have a long term impact on their national psyche.  They spent all that money, and basically got nothing but embarrassment in return.

Now let's see what happens with the Olympics in two years.  Not going to be pretty.  Political unrest could be massive...revolutionary even.  The rise of Hugo Chavez like figure isn't out of the question.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 09, 2014, 09:02:23 AM
Brazil still talks about losing in 1950 on their home soil.

There is no American equivalent. That's because America is the best.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 09, 2014, 09:09:08 AM
It will be REALLY interesting to see what happens with the 3rd place game. ESPECIALLY if they play Argentina.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 09, 2014, 09:47:37 AM
This makes me laugh really, really hard

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/worldcup/pornhub-pleads-users-to-stop-uploading-videos-of-brazil-getting-fked-by-germany-in-the-world-cup-9594287.html

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on July 09, 2014, 11:46:33 AM
This makes me laugh really, really hard

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/worldcup/pornhub-pleads-users-to-stop-uploading-videos-of-brazil-getting-fked-by-germany-in-the-world-cup-9594287.html


This URLs or Page has been blocked.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 09, 2014, 06:45:49 PM
Argentina in the final. Brazil humiliated. Things probably couldn't get much worse for that country.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 10, 2014, 07:02:08 AM
I really hate the penalty kick tie-break in elimination games.  Can they please just play a sudden death period instead?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 10, 2014, 08:44:14 AM
I really hate the penalty kick tie-break in elimination games.  Can they please just play a sudden death period instead?


The problem is that when you are going on to two hours, no one is trying to score.  If you watched the extra time of that game, it was brutal.  Argentina had a couple decent chances and that's about it.

I think soccer would benefit if it had more extensive substitutions.  But that's just an outsider commenting on a sport that he doesn't understand all that much.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on July 10, 2014, 08:58:01 AM

The problem is that when you are going on to two hours, no one is trying to score.  If you watched the extra time of that game, it was brutal.  Argentina had a couple decent chances and that's about it.

I think soccer would benefit if it had more extensive substitutions.  But that's just an outsider commenting on a sport that he doesn't understand all that much.

 Missed the first half and, after golf, the beer was flowing, but it seemed to me that the Dutch were the better side and had more of the possession and created many more chances than Argentina.  If so, the better side is playing for third place and the luckier side is through to the final.  Agree?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 10, 2014, 09:13:44 AM
Missed the first half and, after golf, the beer was flowing, but it seemed to me that the Dutch were the better side and had more of the possession and created many more chances than Argentina.  If so, the better side is playing for third place and the luckier side is through to the final.  Agree?


I don't know.  I only saw the last 20 minutes. 

I think Germany is going to win this.  An extra days rest and a much easier semifinal.  (I wish they would play both semis on the same day.)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 10, 2014, 09:17:15 AM
Missed the first half and, after golf, the beer was flowing, but it seemed to me that the Dutch were the better side and had more of the possession and created many more chances than Argentina.  If so, the better side is playing for third place and the luckier side is through to the final.  Agree?

The beer clouded your cognition.

The Netherlands didn't have a shot on goal until the 95th minute. Robben was invisible until extra time (and even then he wasn't transcendent). I'm not even sure Van Persie played in the match. Their standout performer was a defender. Sneijder's service was awful.

That said, it was a match for tactic-heads and technical twerps. Both did a great job neutralizing the other's most dangerous threat. Both suffered from periods of abject sloppiness. Both were poor in the final third. Difference was Argentina's GK kept his head whereas the Dutch GK became a massive douchebag and tried to win through silly antics.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 10, 2014, 09:24:41 AM
The beer clouded your cognition.

The Netherlands didn't have a shot on goal until the 95th minute. Robben was invisible until extra time (and even then he wasn't transcendent). I'm not even sure Van Persie played in the match. Their standout performer was a defender. Sneijder's service was awful.

That said, it was a match for tactic-heads and technical twerps. Both did a great job neutralizing the other's most dangerous threat. Both suffered from periods of abject sloppiness. Both were poor in the final third. Difference was Argentina's GK kept his head whereas the Dutch GK became a massive douchebag and tried to win through silly antics.

Explain?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 10, 2014, 09:24:50 AM

I don't know.  I only saw the last 20 minutes. 

I think Germany is going to win this.  An extra days rest and a much easier semifinal.  (I wish they would play both semis on the same day.)

It has been played on the same day twice in the modern game (last 30 years or so) but unsure as to why only those two times had them featured on the same day.

In those competitions where the Semi-Finals are played on two separate occasions the team who wins the second Semi generally goes on to win the Cup. Go figure.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 10, 2014, 09:42:43 AM
Explain?

Cillessen started with walking the ball up to Messi for a hand over and embraced his left shoulder. Cillessen then employed the same tactic Krul used against Costa Rica which was the slow stroll on the six yard line and general delay for Garay. Finally, Cillessen worked a different delay on Aguero and Maxi by repeatedly complaining the ball wasn't properly on the spot even though the Turkish referee was standing next to the ball and its proper placement.

All silly gamesmanship antics to where the referee felt a need to have a discussion with the GK about it. In the end, he probably harmed himself the most.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 10, 2014, 09:49:30 AM
I know I don't know much, but I always thought Krul was a pretty good GK in the EPL.  Cillessen has barely played in a lower quality league.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: CTWarrior on July 10, 2014, 09:49:39 AM
Missed the first half and, after golf, the beer was flowing, but it seemed to me that the Dutch were the better side and had more of the possession and created many more chances than Argentina.  If so, the better side is playing for third place and the luckier side is through to the final.  Agree?

The Dutch certainly had the ball more, particularly in the 2nd half, but a lot of that was because they were content to just hold onto it at midfield for long periods of time before attacking.  Argentina was more aggressive whenever they got the ball, but usually their attacks were snuffed out quickly.  Argentina did have the better scoring chances, but not many of them.

My wife was born and raised in Argentina and moved to the States for good when she was 15.  Her family is big into this and I try to enjoy it with her, but my biggest problem with the sport is a game like yesterday's where both teams were far, far more concerned with preventing goals than with scoring them.  You could feel that 0-0 tie coming 20 minutes into the game.

May be tactically smart, but not too exciting to watch.  Again, I am a novice to the sport, but that was my take.  I've watched more soccer in the past three weeks than I had in the 50+ years preceding them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 10, 2014, 09:56:26 AM
As the Men in Blazers said yesterday, "Sometimes, football is just a bit crap." Just like any sport, there will be ugly games.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 10, 2014, 09:59:56 AM

My wife was born and raised in Argentina and moved to the States for good when she was 15.  Her family is big into this and I try to enjoy it with her, but my biggest problem with the sport is a game like yesterday's where both teams were far, far more concerned with preventing goals than with scoring them.  You could feel that 0-0 tie coming 20 minutes into the game.


Which is why sudden death OT after the standard OT period would be great for elimination games.  You have to score to win not by silly penalty kicks.  For each OT period, they can allow another substitution on top of the 3 max.  And if teams drag out OT by being far more concerned with preventing goals than with scoring then that's your penalty by tiring your team out with longer play time for the next game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 10, 2014, 10:05:00 AM
My wife was born and raised in Argentina and moved to the States for good when she was 15.  Her family is big into this and I try to enjoy it with her, but my biggest problem with the sport is a game like yesterday's where both teams were far, far more concerned with preventing goals than with scoring them.  You could feel that 0-0 tie coming 20 minutes into the game.


I think this stuff happens more in international matches.

My observation is that the offense clicks a lot more during club matches so defenses can't just sick back and play for the tie. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 10, 2014, 10:10:48 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsIxQGSCEAAxoP_.png)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU B2002 on July 10, 2014, 10:58:41 AM
The beer clouded your cognition.

The Netherlands didn't have a shot on goal until the 95th minute. Robben was invisible until extra time (and even then he wasn't transcendent). I'm not even sure Van Persie played in the match. Their standout performer was a defender. Sneijder's service was awful.



Agree 100%.  Robben seemed to take one touch too many every time he was close to a dangerous position.  And I don't know what got into Sneijder, but I can't remember one ball on target from him.  One after another too high over the top.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 10, 2014, 11:59:05 AM
The Dutch did not deserve to win yesterday, though not sure either team really did much.  Not a fun game.

I'm ok with penalty kicks, the OT games for a Golden Goal can take forever.  The guys are already so dead tired.  My two cents.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 10, 2014, 12:46:57 PM
Maybe they need a shot clock to make the matches more interesting.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 10, 2014, 04:29:15 PM
Just saw a story on the Popes World Cup final.  Francis v. Benedict
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: River rat on July 10, 2014, 10:03:53 PM
Germany is the best team in the world by a large margin.  They should win on Sunday handily, its a game so we will see but the quality and talent they have at every position is unmatched.  I felt they were the second best team in 2010 , but we too young at the time.  4 years later they are playing at their prime.  Would have loved to see this team with Reus, i am not sure the casual fan realizes how good he is.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 11, 2014, 07:29:25 AM
Germany is the best team in the world by a large margin.  They should win on Sunday handily, its a game so we will see but the quality and talent they have at every position is unmatched.  I felt they were the second best team in 2010 , but we too young at the time.  4 years later they are playing at their prime.  Would have loved to see this team with Reus, i am not sure the casual fan realizes how good he is.

My head says Germany wins, especially with Di Maria out and Aguero not fit. My heart roots for Argentina.

One thing Germany does not have, however, is arguably the greatest player of all time in his prime (bolded for emphasis).

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 11, 2014, 11:00:04 AM
Germany is the best team in the world by a large margin.  They should win on Sunday handily, its a game so we will see but the quality and talent they have at every position is unmatched.  I felt they were the second best team in 2010 , but we too young at the time.  4 years later they are playing at their prime.  Would have loved to see this team with Reus, i am not sure the casual fan realizes how good he is.

Agree Germany is the best team by quite a bit.  Frankly, I thought they were the most talented team in 2010 too, but as you said, they lacked experience.  The only wild card, as Henry points out, is Messi.  Even though Germany is more talented overall, you just never know when a player of his caliber goes off for two or three goals.

For those who think the extra day of rest benefits Germany...recall that Spain won in 2010, despite playing a day later than the Netherlands in the semis.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 11, 2014, 05:26:57 PM
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/belgium-vs-u-s-was-the-best-match-of-the-world-cup-so-far/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 11, 2014, 05:28:23 PM
Last part of 30 for 30's US Soccer video series. Shot during/after Belgium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTRGGeuGY5w
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: CTWarrior on July 14, 2014, 09:05:24 AM
Argentina did not score a goal in their last 322 consecutive minutes of game "action" (3.6 regulation games worth of time), covering their quarterfinal, semifinal and championship games.  Despite this, they were thisclose to having a 50/50 chance of winning via penalty kicks the most prestigious soccer tournament in the world.  How is this the world's most popular sport again?

I will say the winning goal was the result of wonderful offensive play, rather than a blunder by the defense.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 14, 2014, 09:10:32 AM
Argentina did not score a goal in their last 322 consecutive minutes of game "action" (3.6 regulation games worth of time), covering their quarterfinal, semifinal and championship games.  Despite this, they were thisclose to having a 50/50 chance of winning via penalty kicks the most prestigious soccer tournament in the world.  How is this the world's most popular sport again?


Well I would say that high level club soccer is better, because offenses are better.  (Probably because they play together nine months out of the year.)  You can't win just by sitting back and defending constantly like you can in World Cup games.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 14, 2014, 09:42:07 AM
Argentina did not score a goal in their last 322 consecutive minutes of game "action" (3.6 regulation games worth of time), covering their quarterfinal, semifinal and championship games.  Despite this, they were thisclose to having a 50/50 chance of winning via penalty kicks the most prestigious soccer tournament in the world.  How is this the world's most popular sport again?

I will say the winning goal was the result of wonderful offensive play, rather than a blunder by the defense.

Because their defense was outstanding.

The Argentines absolutely shut down a Belgian outfit that abused your country with offensive chances. The Argentines absolutely shut down a Netherlands squad that embarrassed the greatest generation of a national team in history. The Argentines went toe to toe with Germany, whom many consider the most offensively potent nation in the world at the moment.

Defense wins titles. Americans love to trot out that cliche when it comes to "their" sports. Why can't that be the case in the world's most popular sport? Also, there is a major difference between what Argentina did and sitting back to absorb pressure while hoping not to lose. Argentina had chances in all three of the matches you cite. In fact, some in the soccer world felt they were the better team yesterday. However, despite the intractable opinion of some, no team deserves to win on performance alone. You deserve to win when you score more than the opponent.
 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on July 14, 2014, 10:40:15 AM
Very few in the "Soccer World" felt that Argentina was the better side yesterday.  Messi was obviously not himself in the tournament and the Argentines could hardly match position by position with the Mannschaft .
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: CTWarrior on July 14, 2014, 10:45:37 AM
Because their defense was outstanding.

The Argentines absolutely shut down a Belgian outfit that abused your country with offensive chances. The Argentines absolutely shut down a Netherlands squad that embarrassed the greatest generation of a national team in history. The Argentines went toe to toe with Germany, whom many consider the most offensively potent nation in the world at the moment.

Defense wins titles. Americans love to trot out that cliche when it comes to "their" sports. Why can't that be the case in the world's most popular sport? Also, there is a major difference between what Argentina did and sitting back to absorb pressure while hoping not to lose. Argentina had chances in all three of the matches you cite. In fact, some in the soccer world felt they were the better team yesterday. However, despite the intractable opinion of some, no team deserves to win on performance alone. You deserve to win when you score more than the opponent.
 


I was rooting for Argentina as my wife was born there and cared a great deal about the game.  

Sure, Americans admire defense in "their" sports", but in American Sports, no matter how good your defense is, you have to score while playing the actual game, pretty much always more than once, to win.

Nobody would like baseball if all the games were 1-0 or went 12 innings with no score and then a home run derby decided the winner.  Same with football if all the games were 3-0 or 7-0 or 7-3 and a field goal kicking contest decided the winner after an overtime tie.  Defense is admired in American sports because it takes great defense to stop Mike Trout or Peyton Manning or Kevin Durant.  Not the same in soccer.  

You even made the point yourself.  The US defense was pretty porous against Belgium, but Belgium still didn't score in regulation.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 14, 2014, 01:47:33 PM
Kramer said he can't remember any of the first half from yesterday. Sounds like FIFA needs some concussion protocol.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 14, 2014, 01:58:18 PM
Messi with the golden ball? eh...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 14, 2014, 02:18:16 PM
Kramer said he can't remember any of the first half from yesterday. Sounds like FIFA needs some concussion protocol.

Just ask Taylor Twellman.  FIFA is playing with fire in a lot of cases.  Hurray for them that they are starting to gardner attention in the US market....but wait for some of the American press to decide there are eyeballs to be had by investigating FIFA.  The media fire will get hotter on them if they don't figure out the concussion, corruption, and Qatar WC stuff.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 14, 2014, 02:21:35 PM
If they haven't been embarrassed enough already, Qatar is going to buy their WC team for 2022.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/sports/worldcup/in-qatars-bid-for-soccer-respect-big-bankroll-and-imported-talent.html?smid%3D=tw-nytsports&_r=1
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 14, 2014, 04:50:57 PM
Very few in the "Soccer World" felt that Argentina was the better side yesterday.  Messi was obviously not himself in the tournament and the Argentines could hardly match position by position with the Mannschaft .

Honigstein, Balague, Cross, Hunter, et al. These are soccer writers of various nationalities. All made mention of Argentina's performance last night being better then Germany, whether in totality or for the regulation 90 minutes. Mentioned both on ESPN coverage and beIN Sports coverage that Argentina put in a counter-attacking performance that was top rated and the chances they created being better.

As for your positional argument, I disagree. And I suspect so would Mascherano and Zabaleta and Demichellis and Lavezzi and Messi.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 14, 2014, 05:12:04 PM
I was rooting for Argentina as my wife was born there and cared a great deal about the game.  

Sure, Americans admire defense in "their" sports", but in American Sports, no matter how good your defense is, you have to score while playing the actual game, pretty much always more than once, to win.

Nobody would like baseball if all the games were 1-0 or went 12 innings with no score and then a home run derby decided the winner.  Same with football if all the games were 3-0 or 7-0 or 7-3 and a field goal kicking contest decided the winner after an overtime tie.  Defense is admired in American sports because it takes great defense to stop Mike Trout or Peyton Manning or Kevin Durant.  Not the same in soccer.  

You even made the point yourself.  The US defense was pretty porous against Belgium, but Belgium still didn't score in regulation.

It's a can't win position. There were people who thought the NFL overtime set-up was unfair. They changed it and now other people think it's unfair. There are people who find college football overtime a joke. Hell, even hockey went to a soccer-style shootout so they wouldn't have ties. As for baseball? Well, no one likes baseball anymore with its five hour and 29 minute game possibilities. They tried a sudden death in soccer and it was derided because the bracing halt of the game felt unfair. Is there ever a right way to end a game?

We'll disagree about defense in soccer. I've watched hundreds of bad teams play "pack it in" defense and pray. Only in the rare instance do they not get punctured at least once in 90 minutes, even it comes in the 89th. To watch a pure catenaccio style, in the vein that Argentina played yesterday, is to watch a thing of beauty tactically speaking. And it was precisely their good defense that stifled a nation who handled most everyone else with ease in this competition. Part of that was Romero as the GK is always a part of the defense (as shown expertly by Neuer's sweeper keeper routine and Howard's shot stopping).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: River rat on July 22, 2014, 11:36:53 AM
Because their defense was outstanding.

The Argentines absolutely shut down a Belgian outfit that abused your country with offensive chances. The Argentines absolutely shut down a Netherlands squad that embarrassed the greatest generation of a national team in history. The Argentines went toe to toe with Germany, whom many consider the most offensively potent nation in the world at the moment.

Defense wins titles. Americans love to trot out that cliche when it comes to "their" sports. Why can't that be the case in the world's most popular sport? Also, there is a major difference between what Argentina did and sitting back to absorb pressure while hoping not to lose. Argentina had chances in all three of the matches you cite. In fact, some in the soccer world felt they were the better team yesterday. However, despite the intractable opinion of some, no team deserves to win on performance alone. You deserve to win when you score more than the opponent.




Well said about Argentinas defense, and while their offense did sputter they do not have the depth of a Germany.  In fact what team does?, Argentina loses arguero and Di MAria, no different than all teams but 1 and their offense is gonna be stuck in low gear.  I felt Di Maria and Mascherano were Argentinas two best players in the tourney, maybe followed by Zabaleta before Messi.

Loved how MAsherano played.  I have always loved his game and have been more than a bit miffed about how guys like Hudson have been piling on him for Barcas recent defenseive weaknesses.  I contest that he is not the problem its the guys around him and if it were not for MAscerano it would be horrible.  My guess is we will seem Hudson change his tune and swoon all over Masherano after his world cup performance...we will see if he acknowledges that maybe he has been wrong??
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: River rat on July 22, 2014, 11:39:59 AM
meanwhile on the Dodds board Dodds is ripping on Soccer.  That guy has always seemed extremely odd to me. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 22, 2014, 06:13:08 PM
This has been such a fantastic transfer window so far. Keeps things lively in between the world cup and the start of the season. Also, the Colombians are getting PAID.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 23, 2014, 08:48:44 AM
Well said about Argentinas defense, and while their offense did sputter they do not have the depth of a Germany.  In fact what team does?, Argentina loses arguero and Di MAria, no different than all teams but 1 and their offense is gonna be stuck in low gear.  I felt Di Maria and Mascherano were Argentinas two best players in the tourney, maybe followed by Zabaleta before Messi.

Loved how MAsherano played.  I have always loved his game and have been more than a bit miffed about how guys like Hudson have been piling on him for Barcas recent defenseive weaknesses.  I contest that he is not the problem its the guys around him and if it were not for MAscerano it would be horrible.  My guess is we will seem Hudson change his tune and swoon all over Masherano after his world cup performance...we will see if he acknowledges that maybe he has been wrong??

Not strange at all that in the aftermath of the loss most people have incorrectly focused on Messi not being good enough in the Final whereas the focus should be on a team that not once played a full squad yet still found a way to the Final. Aguero was never healthy coming off the injury that kept him out of City at the end of the season and playing virtually the entire QF as well as the SF and Final without a presence like Di Maria was such a blow to Messi's ability to attack.

Agree with you on Mascherano. Amazing to think that he's been forced to play CB in Barcelona for majority of last two seasons due to their ignoring that position during transfer activity. This Cup reinforced that Mascherano is truly one of the better defensive midfielders in the world.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 23, 2014, 11:17:27 AM
This has been such a fantastic transfer window so far. Keeps things lively in between the world cup and the start of the season. Also, the Colombians are getting PAID.


And two years from now, half of those teams that signed those Colombians are going to be asking "why did we spend this much for this guy?" 

Happens every World Cup.  Remember when Inter signed Diego Forlan to replace Samuel Eto?  Eesh....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on July 23, 2014, 11:48:28 AM

And two years from now, half of those teams that signed those Colombians are going to be asking "why did we spend this much for this guy?" 

Happens every World Cup.  Remember when Inter signed Diego Forlan to replace Samuel Eto?  Eesh....
Arsenal with Arshavin
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 23, 2014, 12:49:20 PM

And two years from now, half of those teams that signed those Colombians are going to be asking "why did we spend this much for this guy?" 

Happens every World Cup.  Remember when Inter signed Diego Forlan to replace Samuel Eto?  Eesh....

Yeah, but that was a full year after the WC.  And I think that was more to do with Forlan being well past his prime and less with buying hype.

I would agree that Real is probably overpaying a bit for Rodriguez, but he's young, just had a really good season with Monaco even before the World Cup and was solid with Porto.  I dont think he should have went for more than Suarez, issues and all, but I think he's a budding superstar
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 23, 2014, 03:57:06 PM
Yeah, but that was a full year after the WC.  And I think that was more to do with Forlan being well past his prime and less with buying hype.

I would agree that Real is probably overpaying a bit for Rodriguez, but he's young, just had a really good season with Monaco even before the World Cup and was solid with Porto.  I dont think he should have went for more than Suarez, issues and all, but I think he's a budding superstar

Madrid was smart to get James right now. That left knee of Ronaldo's is chronic. It's going to affect him very much going forward with the way he plays the game and, at 29, he can't afford that. It seems like a cluster right now, especially with a guy like Isco who's either going to be invisible in Madrid or gone in five weeks, but I think a year down the road it all clears up and gives Madrid a true talent they can market globally once Ronaldo starts to flare down. They can't get that with Bale. They can't get that with Benzema. They can't get that with Kroos.

Every one is afraid of Madrid's 11 right now but they haven't played yet. They'll really miss Di Maria. He was the catalyst for their stellar play and he was the reason they won the European Cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 23, 2014, 04:43:20 PM
Im not just talking about James. But also Ospina to Arsenal and Cuadrado to Man U. I think Cuadrado will be an absolute steal to whoever gets him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: swoopem on July 24, 2014, 02:16:42 PM
Here's a pretty cool article about a MU Alum (1982) who recently started a pro soccer team in Indy. Guy seems to have had a very nice career.

https://medium.com/we-are-marquette/life-goals-54ea0759897
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU111 on July 24, 2014, 03:22:19 PM
Here's a pretty cool article about a MU Alum (1982) who recently started a pro soccer team in Indy. Guy seems to have had a very nice career.

https://medium.com/we-are-marquette/life-goals-54ea0759897

Peter Wilt led the charge for several years to land an MLS team in Milwaukee.  I'm still disappointed it didn't work out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 77ncaachamps on July 25, 2014, 12:16:02 AM
meanwhile on the Dodds board Dodds is ripping on Soccer.  That guy has always seemed extremely odd to me.  

Well, you can't spell Dodd without "odd".


Peter Wilt led the charge for several years to land an MLS team in Milwaukee.  I'm still disappointed it didn't work out.

Think it's still possible?

An MU/UWM/UW pipeline would be awesome.

Plus, beer and soccer go hand in hand.

I hope it happens for Milwaukee and US Soccer's sake.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 25, 2014, 08:28:54 AM
Think it's still possible?

An MU/UWM/UW pipeline would be awesome.

Plus, beer and soccer go hand in hand.

I hope it happens for Milwaukee and US Soccer's sake.

Seriously doubt it. At least not anytime soon. MLS has many, many other cities higher up on the list.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 25, 2014, 08:55:15 AM
Seriously doubt it. At least not anytime soon. MLS has many, many other cities higher up on the list.

Agreed. No way does Milwaukee get an MLS franchise any time soon.

However, has there been any discussion of a NASL or USLPro team for Milwaukee?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 25, 2014, 09:01:09 AM
Agreed. No way does Milwaukee get an MLS franchise any time soon.

However, has there been any discussion of a NASL or USLPro team for Milwaukee?

Milwaukee use to have a pro outdoor team, Milwaukee Rampage, but I think they moved to Iowa.  I think it was an A-League team.

Stream of consciousness post here.  Bucks are looking to build a new stadium, MSOE wants to build a nice new soccer stadium, convention center is too small and semi-in the wrong place.  Does it make too much sense to build a combined NBA arena, convention center, multi-use outdoor stadium(with emphasis on soccer) near Water st/4th street?

Certainly help getting a lower level team and maybe an MLS team
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU111 on July 25, 2014, 09:09:58 AM
I think we lost a golden opportunity that won't be coming back.  Wilt's group had a heck of a time trying to find support from the City.  I believe it was the DCD Commissioner, Rocky Marcoux, who even said something to the effect that Major League Soccer would be coming to Milwaukee over his dead body.  Wilt's group tried to find stadium sites for a 20,000 seater by the Italian Community Center in the Third Ward, and on the vacant Park East land.  The Bradley Center and Frank Gimbel of the Wisconsin Center district threw fits over the downtown locations, so those were shot down.  I remember a last ditch effort was made to have the field on a tray that could be pulled up to the grandstands at the Milwaukee Mile with modular seating on the other sides.  By that point, the economy was going in the tank, and the proposal died.  The City didn't want to set up a TIF for a stadium as it was.

Long story short, like jesmu mentioned, there are many other cities that have replaced Milwaukee on the list of potentials.  Even if we tried to get a relocated franchise after the expansion era is over, the appetite for a publicly-financed stadium just wouldn't be there.  Now if the Bucks happen to leave, maybe that would be a different story.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU111 on July 25, 2014, 09:13:37 AM
Agreed. No way does Milwaukee get an MLS franchise any time soon.

However, has there been any discussion of a NASL or USLPro team for Milwaukee?

The Milwaukee Outdoor Pro Soccer Alliance wants to attract a lower tier team but they sound like a very loose group at the moment.  The article link discusses it a bit.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/257016861.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 25, 2014, 09:22:58 AM
The Milwaukee Outdoor Pro Soccer Alliance wants to attract a lower tier team but they sound like a very loose group at the moment.  The article link discusses it a bit.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/257016861.html

Well, it's certainly a start, but that just reinforces the idea that pro soccer in Milwaukee is a long way away.

Tangent, promotion/relegation is as far away from North America as an MLS franchise is from Milwaukee, but that sure would be a lot of fun. Related to that... several of the NASL/USLPro teams get amazing fan support. Of course, many more NASL/USLPro teams have crazy ownership and are unstable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 26, 2014, 01:33:54 AM
DROGBA RETURNS! I know this is off topic from the MLS talk but I couldnt tell you the first thing about MLS expansion of who were even in the playoffs last year. Now La Liga and the EPL on the other hand...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 77ncaachamps on July 26, 2014, 02:05:16 AM
Well, it's certainly a start, but that just reinforces the idea that pro soccer in Milwaukee is a long way away.

Tangent, promotion/relegation is as far away from North America as an MLS franchise is from Milwaukee, but that sure would be a lot of fun. Related to that... several of the NASL/USLPro teams get amazing fan support. Of course, many more NASL/USLPro teams have crazy ownership and are unstable.

Many of the NASL/USLPro teams were NASL teams before MLS came to being:
Tampa Bay Rowdies
New York Cosmos
Ft Lauderdale Strikers
Puerto Rico Islanders

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Soccer_League_(1968%E2%80%931984)#Founding
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 27, 2014, 07:50:58 PM
Well, this would sure be interesting...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/wp/2014/07/27/is-mens-college-soccer-about-to-undergo-big-changes-many-hope-so/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 29, 2014, 09:20:46 AM
Well, this would sure be interesting...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/wp/2014/07/27/is-mens-college-soccer-about-to-undergo-big-changes-many-hope-so/

That is an interesting angle in solving the irrelevancy problem that college soccer has in the grand scheme of developing legitimate prospects for their professional career as well as possible national team selection.

It's the fundamental underpinnings of a broken system developing multi-linear prospects that affects our national squad rather than the lazy trope that the US needs to get better athletes to play the game. Our players are supreme athletes already. We need technical skill and tactical acumen fostered at a young age to be truly successful.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 29, 2014, 09:46:38 AM
I was listening to a podcast last night that had one of the soccer coaches on as a guest. He raised a good point that the college season is basically the same it's been for 55 years. Plus, there's not enough rest allowed for the players, where they will typically play 2-3 games a weekend.

Some concerns exist about costs. There are some questions about the broader implications of making this change on other sports. There are also some questions about the implications on the MLS draft.

Generally, the college coaches are in favor of making this move.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 29, 2014, 10:59:16 AM
I was listening to a podcast last night that had one of the soccer coaches on as a guest. He raised a good point that the college season is basically the same it's been for 55 years. Plus, there's not enough rest allowed for the players, where they will typically play 2-3 games a weekend.

Some concerns exist about costs. There are some questions about the broader implications of making this change on other sports. There are also some questions about the implications on the MLS draft.

Generally, the college coaches are in favor of making this move.

I can attest to the complete grind of that season, I think it would be a great change.  Personally, I would make the change at the high school level as well(though the academies and club teams make high school relatively irrelevant).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 31, 2014, 11:29:50 AM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/07/admit-interest-jermaine.html#more-85585

I'm a big fire fan. But this is a waste for Jones. And I'm surprised the MLS is going to let it happen
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 31, 2014, 11:57:51 AM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/07/admit-interest-jermaine.html#more-85585

I'm a big fire fan. But this is a waste for Jones. And I'm surprised the MLS is going to let it happen


What makes you say this is a waste?

I'm on the fence, personally. I mean... the current Fire roster isn't cutting it. Granted, I'm onboard with the youth movement and all, but the Fire are not good.

As for being surprised with MLS, who knows how their weird rules work?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 31, 2014, 12:11:26 PM


What makes you say this is a waste?

I'm on the fence, personally. I mean... the current Fire roster isn't cutting it. Granted, I'm onboard with the youth movement and all, but the Fire are not good.

As for being surprised with MLS, who knows how their weird rules work?

Just seems that if I was Jones, I'd want to play for a team that is even semi-competitive.

Yea, MLS pretty much does what they want with stars coming into the league. which, again, is why I am surprised they are going to let someone like Jones go to a place like Chicago.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 31, 2014, 12:23:24 PM
Just seems that if I was Jones, I'd want to play for a team that is even semi-competitive.

Yea, MLS pretty much does what they want with stars coming into the league. which, again, is why I am surprised they are going to let someone like Jones go to a place like Chicago.

The Fire /are/ competitive. They almost never lose!*

Seriously, though, your answer about Jones makes sense. I thought for a sec you were saying it would be a waste for the Fire to bring in Jones... which is also a valid question.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 77ncaachamps on August 01, 2014, 02:18:20 PM
At 32, he'd be a bench player in Europe.

He'd be a star in MLS.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on August 02, 2014, 03:25:44 PM
Finally, real futbol being played in the Big House.   And with all of that red in the stands.   My, my, my.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 02, 2014, 05:15:40 PM
Jermaine Jones just laughed at the Chicago Fire.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on August 11, 2014, 09:52:28 AM
My sure to be wrong picks for the EPL this year.

1. Man City:  Slow start but by the end they have the most talent.
2. Chelsea:  A year away
<big gap>
3. Man Utd:  Better coach and no European play will help.
4. Arsenal  Might be third
5. Everton:  Finished in this position last year although Thursday Europa League games won't be fun
6. Liverpool:  Suarez will be hard to replace


18. Hull:  Would be better for them not to qualify for Europa group stages.
19. WBA
20. Burnley
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on August 11, 2014, 09:59:09 AM
Top 4: Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool.
Relegated: Hull, Southampton, QPR
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 11, 2014, 10:39:05 AM
Chelsea really should win it. Costa, hazard, fabragas is a pretty good 3 headed monster with a solid defense. Dark horse for me is arsenal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 11, 2014, 10:41:03 AM
Also, just went to El campin 2 days ago to see a Colombian league match. It was a ton of fun.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 16, 2014, 11:22:39 AM
Happy first day of the premier League everyone.  Let's go Blues!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 16, 2014, 03:47:07 PM
Happy first day of the premier League everyone.  Let's go Blues!

Ditto...except let's go Gunners!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUDPT on August 16, 2014, 03:48:43 PM
Ditto...except let's go Gunners!
+1000
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on August 17, 2014, 09:20:57 PM
I might have to reconsider my prediction for Southampton. Very impressive today against my Reds. Tadic looks like a really nice bit of business for them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on August 30, 2014, 01:30:45 PM
I don't know if any of you cats caught the Everton - Chelsea game, but it was one for the ages. 3-6 final to Chelsea at Goodison Park; Costa looking like he'll fit in real well with the Blues even if he is a bit of a jackass.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on August 30, 2014, 01:32:24 PM
I don't know if any of you cats caught the Everton - Chelsea game, but it was one for the ages. 3-6 final to Chelsea at Goodison Park; Costa looking like he'll fit in real well with the Blues even if he is a bit of a jackass.

Yeah I watched a good portion of it.  Chelsea is a serious contender for the Champions League.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on August 30, 2014, 01:36:22 PM
Yeah I watched a good portion of it.  Chelsea is a serious contender for the Champions League.

I'd say them and City are the front-runners for the EPL and both should be up there for the Champions League as well, except Real Madrid and Bayern Munich will be tough this year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 30, 2014, 01:42:16 PM
I don't know if any of you cats caught the Everton - Chelsea game, but it was one for the ages. 3-6 final to Chelsea at Goodison Park; Costa looking like he'll fit in real well with the Blues even if he is a bit of a jackass.

He sure was a tough guy, talking crap to coleman and others, right up until Timmy got in his face. Not so tough then.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on August 30, 2014, 01:45:01 PM
City got screwed in the CL draw though.  Bayern, City, CSKA (Russian Champion), and Roma.  (Italian Runner up)

Meanwhile Chelsea got Schalke, Sporting and Maribor.

The UEFA seedings are really silly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 06, 2014, 05:49:09 PM
US youth looked talented, full of potential and extremely inexperienced against Czech
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on September 26, 2014, 08:47:26 AM
2016 Copa America added to official calendar, which means that clubs must release their best players for the event.

This is going to be WAY cool.

http://www.concacaf.com/article/centennial-cup-america-officially-added-to-2016-fifa-events-calendar
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: swoopem on September 26, 2014, 08:48:11 AM
nm
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on September 26, 2014, 09:00:42 AM
That is fantastic news, should be awesome.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on September 26, 2014, 10:05:25 AM
2016 Copa America added to official calendar, which means that clubs must release their best players for the event.

This is going to be WAY cool.

http://www.concacaf.com/article/centennial-cup-america-officially-added-to-2016-fifa-events-calendar

Are cities putting in bids to host games?  Have they already been announced?

Forget it, found it in the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Am%C3%A9rica_Centenario
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on September 26, 2014, 10:13:04 AM
Are cities putting in bids to host games?  Have they already been announced?

Forget it, found it in the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Am%C3%A9rica_Centenario

If everybody has their top dogs playing that is Argentinas and Colombias tournament to lose.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on September 26, 2014, 10:19:30 AM
Are cities putting in bids to host games?  Have they already been announced?

Forget it, found it in the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Am%C3%A9rica_Centenario

The stadiums listed come from a Miami Herald article that names them as "among the stadiums being considered." I hope more emerge because they're all about as far from the midwest as you can get.
Rose Bowl
Stanford
Met Life
RFK
Houston
Orlando
Miami


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on September 26, 2014, 10:26:25 AM
The stadiums listed come from a Miami Herald article that names them as "among the stadiums being considered." I hope more emerge because they're all about as far from the midwest as you can get.
Rose Bowl
Stanford
Met Life
RFK
Houston
Orlando
Miami


You have to consider Soldier Field. Or even Lucas Oil as candidates for host stadiums.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on September 26, 2014, 10:28:52 AM
The problem is that Soldier Field is now too narrow to host official FIFA events.  (Happened with the renovation.)  So where else can you go?  Does the new stadium in Indianapolis meet qualifications?  Ford Field in Detroit?  Both would have to import a grass field.  Brown Stadium has hosted friendlies, but I don't know about its dimensions.  
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: PaintTouches on September 26, 2014, 11:19:02 AM
Soldier Field has hosted CONCACAF qualifiers and Gold Cup matches/finals, both official FIFA events. It wasn't a part of the 2022 World Cup bid because the city was in the midst of its Olympic bid a the same time.

With the USSF based in Chicago and the large south american population, you can almost guarantee Soldier Field will get a game or two.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on September 26, 2014, 11:21:21 AM
So is this article inaccurate?

http://southtownstar.suntimes.com/sports/cronin/2673424-419/field-soccer-chicago-soldier-stadium.html#.VCWSZfldWSo

Or is this requirement only for World Cup events?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: PaintTouches on September 26, 2014, 11:59:59 AM
That dude was making stuff up. Nothing wrong with the Daily Southtown (I interned there) but here's a better explanation from a more reputable source.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/sports/soccer/15cncpulse.html?_r=0

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on September 26, 2014, 12:07:25 PM
The problem is that Soldier Field is now too narrow to host official FIFA events.  (Happened with the renovation.)  So where else can you go?  Does the new stadium in Indianapolis meet qualifications?  Ford Field in Detroit?  Both would have to import a grass field.  Brown Stadium has hosted friendlies, but I don't know about its dimensions.  
  I vote for Brown Stadium in Providence!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on September 26, 2014, 12:11:23 PM
That dude was making stuff up. Nothing wrong with the Daily Southtown (I interned there) but here's a better explanation from a more reputable source.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/sports/soccer/15cncpulse.html?_r=0




OK thanks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on September 26, 2014, 12:16:01 PM
2016 Copa America added to official calendar, which means that clubs must release their best players for the event.

This is going to be WAY cool.

http://www.concacaf.com/article/centennial-cup-america-officially-added-to-2016-fifa-events-calendar

this is legitimately my reaction

(http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/lucille-buth-excited.gif)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on October 08, 2014, 01:24:54 PM
It's been in the news locally about Landon's last USA national team game against Ecuador in Hartford.  Plenty of fans are planning big welcome & thank you signs.

http://www.courant.com/sports/hc-on-the-fly-1008-20141007-story.html
On The Fly: Landon Donovan Will Captain U.S. At Rentschler

October 7, 2014, 7:07 PM

Landon Donovan will start, wear the captain's armband and play about 30 minutes in the U.S.-Ecuador soccer game Friday night at Rentschler Field, says U.S. coach Jurgen Klinsmann. This is Donovan's final appearance with the U.S. National Team, which will arrive in Hartford Thursday afternoon ahead of the game. Also, San Jose Earthquakes forward Chris Wondolowski has been added to the U.S. roster.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 08, 2014, 04:24:59 PM
If I were the manager of a European soccer team, these international breaks would drive me crazy.  One each in September, October and November?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on October 08, 2014, 04:29:42 PM
Honestly does anyone see any team that can beat Chelsea in the EPL right now? They may break their own points record.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on October 08, 2014, 04:39:18 PM
Honestly does anyone see any team that can beat Chelsea in the EPL right now? They may break their own points record.

I've seen predictions that put Chelsea at a little under 60% to win, even this early. City is the next closest at ~30%. Liverpool and Arsenal have less than 5% chance to win.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 08, 2014, 04:42:01 PM
I've seen predictions that put Chelsea at a little under 60% to win, even this early. City is the next closest at ~30%. Liverpool and Arsenal have less than 5% chance to win.


Chelsea has already played at City too.

With Arsenal's injuries, they better hope that a couple teams ahead of them don't get hot and start to figure things out (MUFC, Liverpool, Tottenham) or they may not make the top 4.

But they probably will.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 08, 2014, 05:18:35 PM
Honestly does anyone see any team that can beat Chelsea in the EPL right now? They may break their own points record.

Sure.

They've played a very favorable schedule. Couple of promoted teams. A terrible Everton defense. Got Villa and Swans (two teams at the time with more points than expected but will finish mid-table at best) at home. Half crocked Arsenal team at home. Good point away to City.

No one in their right mind thinks Chelsea keeps smooth sailing when the inevitable hamstring tear comes for Costa. An underperforming Remy/over-the-hill Drogba platoon isn't scary. They're one injury away from playing a 19 year old in the center of defense. And now have two keepers with concussion histories.

Could be said Chelsea has the nicest 11 but City has the best squad. Just like last season they'll stop/start until January and then charge up the table and overtake the leader in March.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on November 14, 2014, 02:47:42 PM
Fun first half in the Colombia friendly, great crowd, both teams playing full speed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on November 14, 2014, 03:34:05 PM
Probably going to lose...but Colombia has been the better team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on November 14, 2014, 03:46:20 PM
Thought they looked okay. Disjointed at times, but that's to be expected with the newer guys in the side. Ref didn't do them any favors either.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 14, 2014, 04:18:07 PM
Colombia deserved the result. US couldn't keep possession.  Love that klinsman is basically telling any potential players that you have a much better chance at call ups if you play in Europe.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on November 14, 2014, 06:15:34 PM
Colombia deserved the result. US couldn't keep possession.  Love that klinsman is basically telling any potential players that you have a much better chance at call ups if you play in Europe.

Possession game was terrible. Last 60 minutes was basically a game of "I don't want it, you take it" leading to misplaced passes that keyed the majority of Colombia's attack. Rare poor display from Mix.

Still curious how the first goal for Colombia was allowed to stand. Teophile certainly wasn't all "passive" but in a friendly you can't expect the officials to be in top form just like you can't expect he players to be.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 14, 2014, 06:20:29 PM
COLOMBIAAAA. That team is ridiculously good. Really excited for their showing in Copa America and 2018 WC
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 15, 2014, 03:05:05 PM
http://www.sbisoccer.com/2014/11/increasingly-frustrated-klinsmanns.html

Good for Klinsmann. The MLS execs and owners run the organization like a cartel. Moving players where and when they see fit, especially when it comes to high profile players. Jermaine Jones' mysterious "coin flip"? Examples abound. Until MLS gets its crap together with DPs, homegrown players, salary cap, etc, send the youth to Europe.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 13, 2015, 07:21:49 PM
I hate the MLS
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on January 13, 2015, 09:31:38 PM
Jozy Altidore and Mix Diskerud both headed to MLS. Jozy in particular is starting to feel like that next great American striker, following in the footsteps of Eddie Johnson, Freddy Adu, Taylor Twellman, Kenny Cooper,  and everyone else who is more never was than ever will be.

I feel like the future of Gyasi Zardes is already written in the flop.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 13, 2015, 10:12:59 PM
Jozy Altidore and Mix Diskerud both headed to MLS. Jozy in particular is starting to feel like that next great American striker, following in the footsteps of Eddie Johnson, Freddy Adu, Taylor Twellman, Kenny Cooper,  and everyone else who is more never was than ever will be.

I feel like the future of Gyasi Zardes is already written in the flop.

Twellman got screwed by injuries and the MLS.  Multiple times he had chances to prove himself in Europe, only to have the moves rejected by the MLS.  And that was a MUCH worse MLS than right now.

Can't wait to see Altidore score meaningless goals for a mediocre Toronto team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 13, 2015, 11:42:00 PM
Jozy Altidore and Mix Diskerud both headed to MLS. Jozy in particular is starting to feel like that next great American striker, following in the footsteps of Eddie Johnson, Freddy Adu, Taylor Twellman, Kenny Cooper,  and everyone else who is more never was than ever will be.

I feel like the future of Gyasi Zardes is already written in the flop.

I'll just leave this here...

The MLS execs and owners run the organization like a cartel. Moving players where and when they see fit, especially when it comes to high profile players. Jermaine Jones' mysterious "coin flip"? Examples abound.

I hate the MLS. Allocation order? "Players of a certain caliber"? Etc, etc
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 14, 2015, 12:06:11 AM
I think my problem is there is, thus far, no movement of players to the US and back abroad.  Dempsey is older, so I don't expect it from him, but I don't see Bradley leaving, unless he has a HUGE season, nobody will be able to match his wages.  I worry that a promising younger player like Diskerud is going to go to NYCFC, make good money and be a force and then not go back to Europe.  You make the argument for the progression of MLS all you want, but even in "lesser" leagues in Europe (Portugal, France, Belgium), you have the opportunity to play against higher caliber competition in European play.

There is some really promising domestic young talent on academy teams at Liverpool, Fulham, Southampton, Dortmund, among others.  Lets hope they pan out and bring some success stories for development abroad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 15, 2015, 03:11:39 PM
Congrats to Axel, who was drafted 14th overall in the MLS.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on January 15, 2015, 04:05:50 PM
Congrats to Axel, who was drafted 14th overall in the MLS.

Nicely done. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on February 08, 2015, 09:01:56 AM
Attending today's US vs Panama game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on February 08, 2015, 08:34:16 PM
Had great seats behind the goal as my son is the goalie for his team, felt it would be useful for him to watch them warmup, how they setup, etc.

We were not disappointed.  Rick Rimando, our starting keeper, a great save early on.  I must say, however, he is way too casual with the ball....passing in front of his own line was alarming.  He's a bit too cavalier IMO.

Panama outplayed us the first 20 to 25 minutes I thought.  Then the US got the Bradley goal.....one of the craziest goals I have ever seen in my life.  It was truly amazing.  I was on Bradley a ton at the WC, hopefully with play like today he can put things under better control.  He was solid.

Zardes, who is a local kid, played fantastic.

Dempsey, his 40th goal in international play.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on February 09, 2015, 06:25:15 AM
Had great seats behind the goal as my son is the goalie for his team, felt it would be useful for him to watch them warmup, how they setup, etc.

We were not disappointed.  Rick Rimando, our starting keeper, a great save early on.  I must say, however, he is way too casual with the ball....passing in front of his own line was alarming.  He's a bit too cavalier IMO.

Panama outplayed us the first 20 to 25 minutes I thought.  Then the US got the Bradley goal.....one of the craziest goals I have ever seen in my life.  It was truly amazing.  I was on Bradley a ton at the WC, hopefully with play like today he can put things under better control.  He was solid.

Zardes, who is a local kid, played fantastic.

Dempsey, his 40th goal in international play.

Nick Rimando is quite good actually playing the ball with his feet.  He had a bad pass to Besler that almost led to a goal had the Panamanian player put it on net.  I thought Bradley played real well and so did Zardes.  Bradley teaming up with Altidore in Toronto can only be a good thing to allow them to continue to build chemistry. 

Brek Shea looked decent at left back, getting up to support on attack.  But he has quite a bit still to learn about that position
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on February 09, 2015, 08:16:09 AM
My issue with Rimando was more about the decisionmaking and casualness with the ball.  He's obviously very talented, but didn't like what I saw at times with his approach.

Shea....he's interesting.  Big dude.  People in my section were killing the guy.  He looks a little clumsy out there at times, but he also made some nice plays with the body that disrupted several key attempts by the Panamanians. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on February 09, 2015, 09:41:40 AM
My issue with Rimando was more about the decisionmaking and casualness with the ball.  He's obviously very talented, but didn't like what I saw at times with his approach.

Shea....he's interesting.  Big dude.  People in my section were killing the guy.  He looks a little clumsy out there at times, but he also made some nice plays with the body that disrupted several key attempts by the Panamanians. 

Rimando is what he is.  He's 35, he's not gonna make some jump, he's a good not great keeper, for some of the reasons you mentioned.

Shea is just frustrating.  He's flashy and has some flair/creativity on the ball, but he is and always has been terribly inconsistent.  Comes on as a substitute, pushes play with some good runs, gets people excited, but then always seems to regress.  Does well enough against mid level CONCACAF competition, but seems outclassed past that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on February 09, 2015, 10:10:41 AM
Had great seats behind the goal as my son is the goalie for his team, felt it would be useful for him to watch them warmup, how they setup, etc.

We were not disappointed.  Rick Rimando, our starting keeper, a great save early on.  I must say, however, he is way too casual with the ball....passing in front of his own line was alarming.  He's a bit too cavalier IMO.

Panama outplayed us the first 20 to 25 minutes I thought.  Then the US got the Bradley goal.....one of the craziest goals I have ever seen in my life.  It was truly amazing.  I was on Bradley a ton at the WC, hopefully with play like today he can put things under better control.  He was solid.

Zardes, who is a local kid, played fantastic.

Dempsey, his 40th goal in international play.

Noticed that neither the ref nor the AR's were wearing headsets for comms.  Also thought that Dempsey was off on his goal. Always good to win and hopefully Klinsy got a look at some players.  Also, noticed that they played 4-4-2 this time instead of the experimental 3-5-2 vs. Chile.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on February 09, 2015, 10:20:53 AM
Noticed that neither the ref nor the AR's were wearing headsets for comms.  Also thought that Dempsey was off on his goal. Always good to win and hopefully Klinsy got a look at some players.  Also, noticed that they played 4-4-2 this time instead of the experimental 3-5-2 vs. Chile.

They were playing more of a 4-2-3-1 at least in the first half.  I don't think there is any scenario going forward where we can play a back line of 3.  I don't think we have strong enough defenders plus it limits our strengths with the backs able to get out and make flanking runs (especially Yedlin).

I'd like to see Brek play left back against some real competition, I liked what I saw from him there, but you are correct he tends to be very middling versus top flight competition.


Oh and MLS will ruin the growth of USMNT...just had to get that off my chest.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 09, 2015, 12:18:05 PM
My issue with Rimando was more about the decisionmaking and casualness with the ball.  He's obviously very talented, but didn't like what I saw at times with his approach.

Shea....he's interesting.  Big dude.  People in my section were killing the guy.  He looks a little clumsy out there at times, but he also made some nice plays with the body that disrupted several key attempts by the Panamanians. 

Rimando's last few games, his play out of the back has been very poor. And not in line with his normal decision-making. Dunno why.

Shea is a great super-sub, IMO.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on February 09, 2015, 01:10:21 PM
Oh and MLS will ruin the growth of USMNT...just had to get that off my chest.

poppycock.

The evolution of MLS in its current format is fine for the USMNT. Going further, for the USMNT to truly succeed, it must be as part of the growth of MLS.

Klinsmann isn't wrong that the best US players need to test themselves and grow in the best leagues. The problem is that most US players aren't good enough to do that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 09, 2015, 01:17:01 PM
poppycock.

The evolution of MLS in its current format is fine for the USMNT. Going further, for the USMNT to truly succeed, it must be as part of the growth of MLS.

Klinsmann isn't wrong that the best US players need to test themselves and grow in the best leagues. The problem is that most US players aren't good enough to do that.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But your points seem at odds. So the US team won't succeed without growth of the MLS, but the best US players should go overseas? Wouldn't all the best US players playing in the MLS be important, if not required, to grow the MLS?

Anyone have insider? http://www.espnfc.com/story/2285373/usmnt-russia-board-40
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on February 09, 2015, 01:22:49 PM
poppycock.

The evolution of MLS in its current format is fine for the USMNT. Going further, for the USMNT to truly succeed, it must be as part of the growth of MLS.

Klinsmann isn't wrong that the best US players need to test themselves and grow in the best leagues. The problem is that most US players aren't good enough to do that.

This is where you and I will have to violently disagree.  MLS needs the USMNT to grow, but USMNT does not need MLS to grow.  Additionally, as long as MLS continues to play games with where players go and not support free agency, MLS will never grow out of a novelty.

Want to grow MLS?  Show players there is money to be made there.  If MLS grows, than USMNT players can play there against top flight competition.  Until that happens, playing in MLS holds back players.  I like the MLS, I watch it relatively consistently, but it's not a great product right now.

Why does USMNT need MLS to grow?  It would be nice, but I don't see why it is required.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on February 09, 2015, 01:58:22 PM
This is where you and I will have to violently disagree.  MLS needs the USMNT to grow, but USMNT does not need MLS to grow.  Additionally, as long as MLS continues to play games with where players go and not support free agency, MLS will never grow out of a novelty.

Twellman was banging on about free agency at the end of the telecast yesterday, and I firmly agreed, it was great.  MLS needs to cede some control and the academy system has expand further.  The best American talent shouldn't be playing college soccer, and probably not even HS. 

I play indoor with a guy who was first team All-WCC a few years ago, aka a very good college player.  He talked about playing pickup games with some of the Chicago Fire Reserve team through a buddy of his at US Soccer and how he was completely over his head.  Short of the couple of guys guys getting taken in the MLS draft, the quality just isn't there in US college soccer, the style of play isn't conducive to the professional game, and its just not going to develop pros on a long term basis.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on February 09, 2015, 02:07:50 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with you. But your points seem at odds. So the US team won't succeed without growth of the MLS, but the best US players should go overseas? Wouldn't all the best US players playing in the MLS be important, if not required, to grow the MLS?

Well, right now what's happening is that the best US players ARE playing in MLS. As I'm sure you are aware, MLS keeps improving, as my beloved #cf97 struggle to keep up (#HauptmanOut).

My view of the fundamental problem is that US players aren't good enough for the big transfer windows. Let's say we use big transfer values/salaries as the rough proxy for talent. It's never happened for a US player. So what's the path to a big money transfer?

My point is that the growth of MLS will increase the number of US players having big money transfers because there is more money to be made at home.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on February 09, 2015, 02:22:33 PM
This is where you and I will have to violently disagree.  MLS needs the USMNT to grow, but USMNT does not need MLS to grow.  Additionally, as long as MLS continues to play games with where players go and not support free agency, MLS will never grow out of a novelty.

Want to grow MLS?  Show players there is money to be made there.  If MLS grows, than USMNT players can play there against top flight competition.  Until that happens, playing in MLS holds back players.  I like the MLS, I watch it relatively consistently, but it's not a great product right now.

Why does USMNT need MLS to grow?  It would be nice, but I don't see why it is required.

As I just posted, I'll backtrack a bit on that. There are plenty of US players internationally on foreign teams. In fact, according to people that follow these things, most of the top young players are outside of MLS.

Also, I firmly agree that the MLS lack of free agency, and lack of transparency on player allocation in particular, will hold back the league. No argument there. MLS has to become a more desirable location to play, which is partially starting to happen.

However, a lot of talent being funneled into the U17/U20 teams is a product of MLS academies. USLPro and those affiliations are starting development of players sooner.

Needing MLS to improve the USMNT is simply a numbers game. There are maybe 6-7 quality players internationally. Are we going to pin all our hopes on those players? Or do we improve the talent base with hundreds of potential young players through MLS, USL Pro, and the MLS academies? As that system improves, the USMNT will be much stronger.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on February 09, 2015, 02:53:43 PM
As I just posted, I'll backtrack a bit on that. There are plenty of US players internationally on foreign teams. In fact, according to people that follow these things, most of the top young players are outside of MLS.

Also, I firmly agree that the MLS lack of free agency, and lack of transparency on player allocation in particular, will hold back the league. No argument there. MLS has to become a more desirable location to play, which is partially starting to happen.

However, a lot of talent being funneled into the U17/U20 teams is a product of MLS academies. USLPro and those affiliations are starting development of players sooner.

Needing MLS to improve the USMNT is simply a numbers game. There are maybe 6-7 quality players internationally. Are we going to pin all our hopes on those players? Or do we improve the talent base with hundreds of potential young players through MLS, USL Pro, and the MLS academies? As that system improves, the USMNT will be much stronger.

Agreed.  And I think you are starting to see the MLS become more attractive.  The league is expanding and attracting some great talent overseas.  Now I know that Kaka, David Villa, Lampard, and Gerrard are a little past their prime, but bringing them into the MLS, especially all at the same time while roping back all of the major USMNT players is generating more interest in the league domestically.

Short-term for the USMNT I think it would be beneficial for the top players to play overseas against better competition.  Long-term I think its better that those guys are coming back and playing in the MLS, building the league into ultimately a more competitive league that will be able to generate higher quality players down the road.

I bought season tickets for the brand new NYCFC team this year, I'm excited.  One of the greatest environments I have been to at a sporting event was a Seattle Sounders home game two years ago.  That stadium was rocking for the full 90 minutes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on February 09, 2015, 04:29:19 PM
As I just posted, I'll backtrack a bit on that. There are plenty of US players internationally on foreign teams. In fact, according to people that follow these things, most of the top young players are outside of MLS.

Also, I firmly agree that the MLS lack of free agency, and lack of transparency on player allocation in particular, will hold back the league. No argument there. MLS has to become a more desirable location to play, which is partially starting to happen.

However, a lot of talent being funneled into the U17/U20 teams is a product of MLS academies. USLPro and those affiliations are starting development of players sooner.

Needing MLS to improve the USMNT is simply a numbers game. There are maybe 6-7 quality players internationally. Are we going to pin all our hopes on those players? Or do we improve the talent base with hundreds of potential young players through MLS, USL Pro, and the MLS academies? As that system improves, the USMNT will be much stronger.

Admittedly this is a bit of a bitter pill for me, but as JWags pointed out, until we break down the current system it won't work.  We have to get soccer out of college and likely high school to be competitive.  When I was a freshmen at MU I had a try out with the Chicago Fire and they extended me an offer, but because the contract was so poor and it would have required me to skip college, I turned it down.  Oh what could have been.

Until we create an academy system where players can train and get an education (think Southhampton) the US isn't going to produce enough talent internally to meet the numbers needed for USMNT.

MLS is working on academies, but as far as I can tell they are only half serious, and even then there is such a cap on salaries going into the MLS it's hard to justify making that choice.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 09, 2015, 04:40:07 PM
Well, right now what's happening is that the best US players ARE playing in MLS. As I'm sure you are aware, MLS keeps improving, as my beloved #cf97 struggle to keep up (#HauptmanOut).

My view of the fundamental problem is that US players aren't good enough for the big transfer windows. Let's say we use big transfer values/salaries as the rough proxy for talent. It's never happened for a US player. So what's the path to a big money transfer?
  • International Youth Academy program makes first team and transfers. This is your Julian Green, Hyndman, Rubio Rubin, etc approach. I hope it works out, and there are a lot more young (U20) players in foreign academies these days. This is very promising and a path of growing the USMNT that does not require MLS.
  • Rising US player signs contract with international club. This is the traditional route, most recently by Yedlin, but before that by Dempsey, Bradley, Altidore. Except that these guys initially transferred for small dollars and are coming home to make real money.

My point is that the growth of MLS will increase the number of US players having big money transfers because there is more money to be made at home.

I can buy into this 100%.

Also, oh god, a fellow Fire fan. Speaking of which, great to see Jermaine Jones put on the Red, eh? Oh wait.... the behind-closed-doors "blind draw." Nevermind that Kraft's team (Revs) desperately needed a big name to draw more attendance and nevermind that Kraft is very close with Garber...

If/when the MLS gets serious, they need to be more in sync with US Soccer, and generate a plan together on how to 1) produce the best domestic talent and 2) produce the best professional product possible. The ODP (youth) system is a joke. USLPro/NASL need to be "minor" leagues for MLS, similar to baseball. Or there needs to be academies. I'm not sure I can see both working well.

The next MLS CBA should be VERY interesting. Technically, as of now, the players are on strike. We'll see how united they are and how much influence they really have.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on February 09, 2015, 04:49:35 PM
Until we create an academy system where players can train and get an education (think Southhampton) the US isn't going to produce enough talent internally to meet the numbers needed for USMNT.

MLS is working on academies, but as far as I can tell they are only half serious, and even then there is such a cap on salaries going into the MLS it's hard to justify making that choice.

Every MLS team has an academy. Many of them are affiliated with more than one academy. Plus there are just regular development teams. Some (not many) of the MLS teams have "onsite" type academies.

http://ussda.demosphere.com/ (http://ussda.demosphere.com/)

Here's a list of all the "homegrown" players (originally through academies) currently signed to MLS teams. Almost all of them have birthdays in the 90's, meaning that much of this talent is younger than 24. The growth of Academy driven talent into MLS is going to be exponential in the next few years.

http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/http%3A//pressbox.mlssoccer.com/homegrownplayers (http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/http%3A//pressbox.mlssoccer.com/homegrownplayers)

In addition, I believe that almost every MLS team either has their own USL Pro team or a USL Pro affiliate. This is a path for the younger players to take instead of the college route. It is admittedly relatively new, so the growth will take some time. The idea is that a player signs a contract with the first team but then gets loaned out to the USL Pro team.

For example, the Fire just signed U17 team member Collin Fernandez to a contract. He went through the academy and instead of college, signed with the first team. Should he not get enough PT with the Fire, he'll get loaned out to St. Louis and will play USL Pro.

From the following article, here's a list of potential Academy driven players that could be in play for 2018.

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/03/mls-academies-for-the-first-time-could-lead-the-way-for-us-at-2018-world-cup/ (http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/03/mls-academies-for-the-first-time-could-lead-the-way-for-us-at-2018-world-cup/)

Goalkeepers: Bill Hamid (DC United, 27)

Defenders: DeAndre Yedlin (Seattle Sounders, 24), Shane O’Neill (Colorado Rapids, 24), Erik Palmer-Brown (Sporting Kansas City, 21), Kellyn Acosta (FC Dallas, 23),

Midfielders: Luis Gil (Real Salt Lake, 24), Wil Trapp (Columbus Crew, 25), Harrison Shipp (Chicago Fire, 26), Bryan Salazar (Houston Dynamo, 23), Dillon Serna (Colorado Rapids, 24), Scott Caldwell (New England Revolution, 27)

Attackers: Jack McInerney (Philadelphia Union, 25) Juan Agudelo (New York Red Bulls, 25), Jack McBean (LA Galaxy, 23), Gyasi Zardes (LA Galaxy, 26)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 09, 2015, 05:13:34 PM
I'd like to see Peter Wilt run for USSF President. I think he'd do much better than Gulati.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 27, 2015, 08:25:09 AM
Agreed.  And I think you are starting to see the MLS become more attractive.  The league is expanding and attracting some great talent overseas.  Now I know that Kaka, David Villa, Lampard, and Gerrard are a little past their prime, but bringing them into the MLS, especially all at the same time while roping back all of the major USMNT players is generating more interest in the league domestically.

Short-term for the USMNT I think it would be beneficial for the top players to play overseas against better competition.  Long-term I think its better that those guys are coming back and playing in the MLS, building the league into ultimately a more competitive league that will be able to generate higher quality players down the road.

I bought season tickets for the brand new NYCFC team this year, I'm excited.  One of the greatest environments I have been to at a sporting event was a Seattle Sounders home game two years ago.  That stadium was rocking for the full 90 minutes.

I heard this morning that the new NYCFC has already sold 14,000 season tickets.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on March 03, 2015, 12:40:40 PM
Good article on free agency and MLS.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121193/will-free-agency-destroy-major-league-soccer
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on March 03, 2015, 01:04:25 PM
FYI for those in the Milwaukee area

http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/ambitious-german-brings-outdoor-soccer-back-to-milwaukee-030215 (http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/ambitious-german-brings-outdoor-soccer-back-to-milwaukee-030215)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on March 03, 2015, 02:33:08 PM
Admittedly this is a bit of a bitter pill for me, but as JWags pointed out, until we break down the current system it won't work.  We have to get soccer out of college and likely high school to be competitive.  When I was a freshmen at MU I had a try out with the Chicago Fire and they extended me an offer, but because the contract was so poor and it would have required me to skip college, I turned it down.  Oh what could have been.

Until we create an academy system where players can train and get an education (think Southhampton) the US isn't going to produce enough talent internally to meet the numbers needed for USMNT.

MLS is working on academies, but as far as I can tell they are only half serious, and even then there is such a cap on salaries going into the MLS it's hard to justify making that choice.

Not a rhetorical question .... but in this instance, what makes soccer different from/unique compared to a sport like hockey, which similarly faces competition with international teams/players and yet has a thriving college (and in some places, high school) development system?

There is a national academy in Ann Arbor (US Hockey's National Team Development Program) that produces a lot of the top talent, but there's no academy system compared to what exists in European soccer. And there have been many good American players who've come out of the high school/college ranks without being in the national program.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on March 03, 2015, 04:10:26 PM
Strike! Strike! Strike!

http://screamer.deadspin.com/all-signs-pointing-to-mls-work-stoppage-1689244812/+billyhaisley
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on March 04, 2015, 06:33:32 AM
Not a rhetorical question .... but in this instance, what makes soccer different from/unique compared to a sport like hockey, which similarly faces competition with international teams/players and yet has a thriving college (and in some places, high school) development system?

There is a national academy in Ann Arbor (US Hockey's National Team Development Program) that produces a lot of the top talent, but there's no academy system compared to what exists in European soccer. And there have been many good American players who've come out of the high school/college ranks without being in the national program.



I don't know enough about hockey to been very intelligent in my response, but that's never stopped me before  ;D  I believe that hockey is much more concentrated at the high school and college levels than soccer is, plus hockey is a larger sport in the US than soccer is.  The popularity of soccer at the lower levels(especially high school) dilutes the talent levels.  The quality of competition in high school and college is pretty low IMO as a consequence players don't develop as well.  In hockey there are fewer slots so competition is higher, the product is better and talent develops more successfully.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 04, 2015, 07:46:46 AM
I'd like to see Peter Wilt run for USSF President. I think he'd do much better than Gulati.

Agreed. But I don't think he would unless Gulati stepped down. FWIW, if that did happen I think it would be the end of the Klinsmann era, or at least shorten the leash significantly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on March 04, 2015, 08:10:07 AM
Agreed. But I don't think he would unless Gulati stepped down. FWIW, if that did happen I think it would be the end of the Klinsmann era, or at least shorten the leash significantly.

I love Klinsy and think he's the right man for the job....but a shortened leash for him wouldn't be a bad thing.  As they say "power corrupts...."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 04, 2015, 08:21:45 AM
I can say without question Peter was not a fan of the Bradley dismissal. That may stem from their time together with the Fire but I'm confident had it been Peter's decision Bradley would have at least taken us through 2014.

Personally I think JK was a solid long term hire though I feel Bradley may have yielded better short term results. I can definitely say things would be dIfferent with Peter sitting in Gulati's chair.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 04, 2015, 09:20:34 AM
I can say without question Peter was not a fan of the Bradley dismissal. That may stem from their time together with the Fire but I'm confident had it been Peter's decision Bradley would have at least taken us through 2014.

Personally I think JK was a solid long term hire though I feel Bradley may have yielded better short term results. I can definitely say things would be dIfferent with Peter sitting in Gulati's chair.

But not necessarily better by any tangible measurement.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 12, 2015, 12:53:43 AM
I hate Brazilian internationals. Silva and Luiz knocked out my Blues and poor showings from Willian and Ramires didn't help. I hate how Jose plays when he's tied or ahead in aggregate, especially since PSG was down a man for 85 minutes. Time to put Cuadrado on the right side instead of Willian. Getting real, tired of him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 12, 2015, 08:58:08 AM
I hate Brazilian internationals. Silva and Luiz knocked out my Blues and poor showings from Willian and Ramires didn't help. I hate how Jose plays when he's tied or ahead in aggregate, especially since PSG was down a man for 85 minutes. Time to put Cuadrado on the right side instead of Willian. Getting real, tired of him.

Sucks for you as a fan, great for every other person in the known world.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on March 12, 2015, 09:04:03 AM
Great cartoon from one of the French papers-

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_5UgZmUMAAW3cU.png:small)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 12, 2015, 09:09:15 AM
Great cartoon from one of the French papers-

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_5UgZmUMAAW3cU.png:small)

Tremendous.

That entire blue outfit, from the oligarch down through Buck and Mourinho to players onto the butts in stands, is a $hit heap.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 12, 2015, 09:35:53 AM
Sucks for you as a fan, great for every other person in the known world.

1000%  That game ended with excitement but was a joke for most of the match.  Ibra's red card was HORRIBLE.  I've yet to see a single commentator of note defend that decision.  And beyond that, Chelsea played incredibly cynically and in the most unimaginative style.  Which is especially lame when you have that amount of talent, especially in attack.

Glad PSG is through.  Love their style of soccer when they are clicking, and Ibra has been one of my favorite players for a long time, and we don't get much more of him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on March 12, 2015, 09:46:44 AM
This entire European season has been a disaster for English teams.

**Liverpool can't even get out of the group stage in the CL, then loses to a Turkish club in the Europa. 

**Arsenal loses 3-1 to Monaco...AT HOME in the CL.

**Man City will lose to Barcelona.

**And of course Tottenham lost in the Europa to a decent Italian team.

England is falling, while Germany is rising.  It will be fun to watch Bundesliga games on Fox next fall.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 12, 2015, 01:01:47 PM
1000%  That game ended with excitement but was a joke for most of the match.  Ibra's red card was HORRIBLE.  I've yet to see a single commentator of note defend that decision.  And beyond that, Chelsea played incredibly cynically and in the most unimaginative style.  Which is especially lame when you have that amount of talent, especially in attack.

Glad PSG is through.  Love their style of soccer when they are clicking, and Ibra has been one of my favorite players for a long time, and we don't get much more of him.

Bad red card, bad no call on what shoulda been a Costa penalty, evetything evens out. Spot on for Mourinho, why you park the bus in the 40th minute while up a man is mind boggling to me. That's why I wanted Cuadrado on at the half instead of Willian and unless Oscar was hurt why do you take him out instead of Ramires? Ugh, frustrating.

Also time to start giving Zouma some time in center back. Terry starting to look his age.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on March 12, 2015, 01:12:51 PM
2018 World Cup qualifying began today!  Initial rounds in Asia, including the first leg between East Timor and Mongolia!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 12, 2015, 02:35:24 PM
2018 World Cup qualifying began today!  Initial rounds in Asia, including the first leg between East Timor and Mongolia!

Should be one for the ages.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on March 12, 2015, 02:36:25 PM
Should be one for the ages.


It's already over.  East Timor won 4-1.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 13, 2015, 11:35:31 AM
But not necessarily better by any tangible measurement.

Can't guarantee it'd be better. If I had a vote, Peter would get it. He's very smart, business savvy, and knows American soccer better than just about anyone out there. He knows the sport at every level, having ran teams from indoor leagues all the way to MLS titles.

I also think he would be more dedicated than Gulati. Our current president was instrumental in the start of MLS, but hasn't been involved with the more grass roots levels of the sport in 20+ years.

I would always hesitate to say what I think Peter would do because I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth and don't want to share thoughts that he might rather stayed private. But I do believe he has proven from Chicago to Milwaukee to Indianapolis that he knows how to build a program, grow a fanbase, and win while still being that guy who'll sit down and talk brass tacks at the bar with fellow fans. He gets the sport, gets our culture, and knows how to fuse the two together.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 14, 2015, 11:52:17 AM
Andrija Novakovich is an 18 year old USA forward from Muskego that was originally signed to Marquette before getting an offer to play professionally for Reading FC. He just made his debut for the Royals. Very proud of the young man!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on March 16, 2015, 03:18:54 PM
Went to the NYCFC home opener last night where NYCFC beat New England 2-0.  43,000 fans and an electric atmosphere.  Hope to see it stick, will be great when they can get their own stadium and aren't playing at Yankee Stadium.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 16, 2015, 04:14:19 PM
Went to the NYCFC home opener last night where NYCFC beat New England 2-0.  43,000 fans and an electric atmosphere.  Hope to see it stick, will be great when they can get their own stadium and aren't playing at Yankee Stadium.

Where did you sit? And what did you think of the sight lines?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: fjm on March 16, 2015, 09:22:47 PM
Awesome! A futbol section! Huge Barça fan here! This is awesome! I love this site! Going to the NYCFC vs. Chicago fire game in April!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on March 17, 2015, 08:25:38 AM
Where did you sit? And what did you think of the sight lines?

I was in the Third Rail, the supporters section, 2 rows up.  The sight lines were fine where I was as I was right behind the goal.  I'm sure those near home plate and third base didn't have the best of views.

It was an electric atmosphere there, tons of fun.  Here was part of the celebration after the match.  Claudio Reyna tweeted a video that I liked better than this one, but the video isn't up on youtube and I can't figure out how to embed it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGIstKkz22Y
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 17, 2015, 09:32:39 AM
I was in the Third Rail, the supporters section, 2 rows up.  The sight lines were fine where I was as I was right behind the goal.  I'm sure those near home plate and third base didn't have the best of views.

It was an electric atmosphere there, tons of fun.  Here was part of the celebration after the match.  Claudio Reyna tweeted a video that I liked better than this one, but the video isn't up on youtube and I can't figure out how to embed it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGIstKkz22Y

Very cool. Curious to see how people do if not sitting in the supporters area. Baseball diamonds are such a tricky atmosphere to work around both logistically with the field and energy wise with the fans.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: NYWarrior on March 18, 2015, 03:50:18 PM
Legend has it that Messi can nutmeg a mermaid.

https://vine.co/v/OV2ZF3xLFFV (https://vine.co/v/OV2ZF3xLFFV)

I think this one of two in the 1H of today's UCL game ... LOVE Pep's reaction
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on March 20, 2015, 07:50:56 AM
This entire European season has been a disaster for English teams.

**Liverpool can't even get out of the group stage in the CL, then loses to a Turkish club in the Europa. 

**Arsenal loses 3-1 to Monaco...AT HOME in the CL.

**Man City will lose to Barcelona.

**And of course Tottenham lost in the Europa to a decent Italian team.

England is falling, while Germany is rising.  It will be fun to watch Bundesliga games on Fox next fall.


To follow this up, no English teams in either the quarterfinals of the Champions League or Europa League.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on March 20, 2015, 08:07:00 AM
This entire European season has been a disaster for English teams.

**Liverpool can't even get out of the group stage in the CL, then loses to a Turkish club in the Europa. 

**Arsenal loses 3-1 to Monaco...AT HOME in the CL.

**Man City will lose to Barcelona.

**And of course Tottenham lost in the Europa to a decent Italian team.

England is falling, while Germany is rising.  It will be fun to watch Bundesliga games on Fox next fall.

Really hoping Freiburg can win a few more points and avoid relegation.  Trained with them one summer when I was in high school and really want to see them play on Fox in the fall.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on March 20, 2015, 08:11:41 AM
Somewhat related podcast from Men in Blazers.  They talked with Alexi Lalas about the ebb and flow of league popularity.  I forgot that Serie A was the place to be in the early to mid 90s then EPL took over.  Is Bundesliga next?
https://soundcloud.com/meninblazers/men-in-blazers-030415-mls-special-with-alexi-lalas (https://soundcloud.com/meninblazers/men-in-blazers-030415-mls-special-with-alexi-lalas)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 20, 2015, 09:03:15 AM
Somewhat related podcast from Men in Blazers.  They talked with Alexi Lalas about the ebb and flow of league popularity.  I forgot that Serie A was the place to be in the early to mid 90s then EPL took over.  Is Bundesliga next?
https://soundcloud.com/meninblazers/men-in-blazers-030415-mls-special-with-alexi-lalas (https://soundcloud.com/meninblazers/men-in-blazers-030415-mls-special-with-alexi-lalas)

Securing Bundesliga rights might turn out to be a really big deal for Fox Sports 1. Soccer fans don't have the same network biases you'll find with people that just stay glued to ESPN. With Jurgen Klinsmann as the USMNT coach, we've seen a growing number of National Team player plying their trade in the Bundesliga. American soccer fans may very well jump all over that league. Not only because it's a faster paced, higher-scoring league than the EPL, but also because of who's playing there.
.
.
There are more in the lower leagues as well, Bobby Wood, Alfredo Morales, Terrence Boyd, Andrew Wooten, and Junior Flores all have featured or could feature for the USA, and Klinsmann's active role in trying to secure German-American players to our flag will likely only see that number increase. I know a ton of people that are still Fulham fans (Fulhamerica) because of guys like Bocanegra, McBride, and Dempsey over the years. No reason those types of fans won't quickly gravitate to the Bundesliga for similar reasons.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: fjm on March 22, 2015, 08:34:59 PM
(http://memeinternet.blogspot.com/2014/09/bruh.html)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 22, 2015, 08:58:17 PM
Securing Bundesliga rights might turn out to be a really big deal for Fox Sports 1. Soccer fans don't have the same network biases you'll find with people that just stay glued to ESPN. With Jurgen Klinsmann as the USMNT coach, we've seen a growing number of National Team player plying their trade in the Bundesliga. American soccer fans may very well jump all over that league. Not only because it's a faster paced, higher-scoring league than the EPL, but also because of who's playing there.
.
  • Fabian Johnson (Borussia Moenchengladbach): World Cup starter
  • John Anthony Brooks (Hertha Berlin): USMNT World Cup player and goal-scorer
  • Timothy Chandler (Eintracht Frankfurt): USMNT World Cup player
  • Julian Green (Hamburg SV, loan from Bayern Munich): USMNT World Cup player and goal-scorer
  • Joe Gyau (Borussia Dortmund): USMNT player
  • Caleb Stanko (SC Freiburg): USMNT U-20 Captain
  • Jerome Kiesewetter (VfB Stuttgart): USMNT eligible
  • Ashton Götz (Hamburg SV): USMNT eligible
.
There are more in the lower leagues as well, Bobby Wood, Alfredo Morales, Terrence Boyd, Andrew Wooten, and Junior Flores all have featured or could feature for the USA, and Klinsmann's active role in trying to secure German-American players to our flag will likely only see that number increase. I know a ton of people that are still Fulham fans (Fulhamerica) because of guys like Bocanegra, McBride, and Dempsey over the years. No reason those types of fans won't quickly gravitate to the Bundesliga for similar reasons.

I'm in a full research study on this right now.  Beyond interesting and confusing as hell.  Nothing like the States rights.

Watched El Classico this afternoon on BeIN....fun stuff.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 77ncaachamps on March 22, 2015, 11:03:21 PM
Just got back from Avaya Stadium (Quakes).

Sweet place.

Not sure if it will be as rocking as the Timbers or Sounders homes but if you ever wanted to watch a soccer game in NA, this could be it.

As an aside, Fire's got some thugs.
#jussayin
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 23, 2015, 01:10:29 AM
Just got back from Avaya Stadium (Quakes).

Sweet place.

Not sure if it will be as rocking as the Timbers or Sounders homes but if you ever wanted to watch a soccer game in NA, this could be it.

As an aside, Fire's got some thugs.
#jussayin

Drove by that stadium a few weeks ago....looks really cool. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 31, 2015, 12:52:47 PM
14 goals conceded in the 80th minute or later for the USMNT in the last 15 matches. I'm ready for this Klinsmann experiment to end.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 31, 2015, 01:18:56 PM
Copa America for only $7.99 a month coming soon.  If interested, keep eyes peeled.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 31, 2015, 03:06:43 PM
14 goals conceded in the 80th minute or later for the USMNT in the last 15 matches. I'm ready for this Klinsmann experiment to end.

To be fair, they were winning 1-0 against a side rated much higher than them, on the road.  If Jozy doesn't go mental and they don't have to play down a man for the last 20 min, its a different story.  And its a friendly, where they are working out some new lineups.  I have no problem with such a result.

The US has more talent in the 2-4 year away pipeline than they ever have.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on March 31, 2015, 03:11:53 PM
Drove by that stadium a few weeks ago....looks really cool. 

Cooler than this one?

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/bursaspor-s-new-crocodile-stadium-is-set-to-open-this-year-%E2%80%94-and-looks-amazing-130342900.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 31, 2015, 05:30:27 PM
Some good articles today:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2015/03/31/armchair-analyst-focus-good-usmnt-finally-show-cohesion-vs-switzerland-three

http://fusion.net/story/112389/michael-bradley-position-usa-usmnt-switzerland/

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/66/united-states/2015/03/31/10326212/is-klinsmanns-us-lacking-identity-or-simply-in-the-midst-of?ICID=HP_HN_1

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/03/31/usmnt-switzerland-brek-shea-jurgen-klinsmann-friendly
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2015, 10:07:21 AM
Cooler than this one?

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/bursaspor-s-new-crocodile-stadium-is-set-to-open-this-year-%E2%80%94-and-looks-amazing-130342900.html

It almost looks like someone built that out of legos
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 03, 2015, 09:33:43 AM
To be fair, they were winning 1-0 against a side rated much higher than them, on the road.  If Jozy doesn't go mental and they don't have to play down a man for the last 20 min, its a different story.  And its a friendly, where they are working out some new lineups.  I have no problem with such a result.

The US has more talent in the 2-4 year away pipeline than they ever have.

The result doesn't bother me, but the trend does. It will all become a lot more real once the Gold Cup kicks off, but I really question Jurgen's ability to get his team to defend. Ever since he took over, it's been experimenting at the back. Four in the backline, five in the backline, three in the backline, wingers turned into fullbacks (Beasley, Shea), defensive mids turned into center backs (Jones), it always feels like he's just grasping at straws hoping to get lucky.

At some point, as the national team manager, you have to accept what you have and work with it. He only gets a few weeks a year with these guys, the rest of the time is dedicated to their club teams. Positional changes work with club teams because you can practice week in, week out all year round. That's how Clint Dempsey went from being a wing midfielder to a withdrawn striker at Fulham. But turning Jones into a centerback just because you don't like your options when he's still playing defensive mid for the Revs? I can't see that working.

He got lucky with Beasley. That transition can work. But it's pretty rare that you are able to make that shift at the infrequently played national team level than the constant routine of the club team level. It helps that Beasley has played more defense for his club teams as well. Because it worked with Beasley, Jurgen seems to think he can just plug and play anyone anywhere. It's the reason that Michael Bradley has been far less efficient under Klinsmann (he's an excellent #6, but a below average #10), it's why Jones often looks out of position now (he is), and I really think all the experimentation is why our defense hemorrhages goals at the end of games when the tension is at its highest.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 03, 2015, 04:37:07 PM
Brek is playing LB for Orlando. But I get your overriding point.

As for Bradley, I think this is a good article: http://fusion.net/story/112389/michael-bradley-position-usa-usmnt-switzerland/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 04, 2015, 08:41:10 AM
Brek is playing LB for Orlando. But I get your overriding point.

As for Bradley, I think this is a good article: http://fusion.net/story/112389/michael-bradley-position-usa-usmnt-switzerland/

I think that article illustrates one of the biggest problems with Jurgen. He wants to come in and run his system. Attacking football, play through the #10 in the middle of the pitch, blitzing attacks from wing backs, embrace the "Total Football" that he is so enamored with.

The problem is we don't have the kind of players for that. We don't have a great creative #10. Maybe one of the kids currently playing at La Masia, Ben Lederman or Konrad de la Fuente, will develop those kind of skills. Maybe even sooner, maybe one of the kids in the U-20s. But right now, among our best players, we simply don't have that kind of guy. That's why Bradley so often ran Dempsey and Donovan out on the wings. It allowed them to use their speed and creativity while being up against fewer defenders. Defenses naturally collapse on a #10, but wingers have more freedom to move and get off crosses.

I worried when he took over that we didn't have the talent to run the type of system he wanted to run. The 12-game winning streak seemed to signal the team "getting" his system, but half of those wins came in a Gold Cup where we didn't even face Mexico and skated by against the Ticos and Panama with 1-0 results. Since then, we've seen reality set in. Jurgen trying to fit square pegs into round holes. In Germany, he had all the pieces to fit into his system. He had a wealth of footballing talent. Here, you have to make due with what you have. Bob Bradley was great at that. It may not have been pretty, but it usually worked.

What I'd really like to see is some lasting change in the MLS as far as academies and implementing much of what Jurgen wants, but him not to last through this cycle. I think that there could be a lot of long-term good to having him in charge, but the actual instance of him in charge will not generally be good. I really just don't think we're ready to be the kind of nation that can plug-and-play into any coach's system. I want us to become that good, but until our young talents (Rubin, Zelalem, Green, and younger) prove they can play with the kind of verve JK desires, we're just a minnow trying to convince the world we're a shark.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on April 07, 2015, 01:03:04 PM
Count me in the group of people getting disenchanted with the Klinsmann experiment. I'd hate to lose the recruiter, but the tactics and team identity are a hot mess. Of course, let's see what happens in the Gold Cup.

====

After a rough start, the Fire have won two in a row. I'm reasonably optimistic about the team and the players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 07, 2015, 04:33:08 PM
Count me in the group of people getting disenchanted with the Klinsmann experiment. I'd hate to lose the recruiter, but the tactics and team identity are a hot mess. Of course, let's see what happens in the Gold Cup.

====

After a rough start, the Fire have won two in a row. I'm reasonably optimistic about the team and the players.

Excellent point about the Gold Cup. All that matters this year is qualifying for the Confederations. As long as we do that, it's mission accomplished for the year. I'm trying to be patient, but I feel like I'm watching the same mistakes over and over again. Though admittedly, it sometimes felt that way under Bradley too, just usually on the attacking end (Ugh...remember Conor Casey?)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 15, 2015, 07:55:05 PM
I HATE when the USSF plays USAvMEX in any southern state. Might as well play our "home" games in Azteca. Pick a midwest, northeast or northwest arena.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on April 15, 2015, 09:03:39 PM
The pitch is a bad joke.   Mexico looked better in the first half. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 15, 2015, 09:28:45 PM
Unfit players? That's awful. But risking injury on a crapty field? That's perfectly fine.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 15, 2015, 09:30:32 PM
I have a question... what's the deal with Jordan Morris (or any other college athlete), taking freebies (like shoes) from the national team sponsor? Is that allowed?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 15, 2015, 09:31:33 PM
Welcome to the show young Mr. Morris.

As for your question, I'd imagine he probably has to wear his Stanford gear, outside of the jersey and whatnot.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on April 16, 2015, 08:25:52 AM
Why did they play this outside a FIFA window?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on April 16, 2015, 11:00:28 AM
This is a pretty good recap of the game.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2015/04/15/armchair-analyst-dos-cero-and-legacy-jurgen-klinsmann-three-things

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 16, 2015, 06:45:26 PM
This is a pretty good recap of the game.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2015/04/15/armchair-analyst-dos-cero-and-legacy-jurgen-klinsmann-three-things

Nice article. Last night felt mixed for me. The first half we showed some real positives, but for stretches were on the back foot. They did better than I expected holding possession, but when was our first actual shot on goal? Seemed like we could control the ball, control the game in the middle third, but just had no sense of cohesion when it came to producing chances. Even on the few set pieces we had, it didn't feel like we presented much of a threat.

Second half was obviously better. Great run by Morris, more chances created, and nice to see Agudelo score. Neither was a full squad, more like B vs B squads, but nice to see a win against Mexico and no goals conceded late. Yarbrough looked a bit shaky at times. Few of the defenders really stood out as negatives, which was definitely a positive. Yedlin is better going forward than going back, but he had a few nice defensive plays as well. Still not sold on Shea as a LB, also a guy better going forward (no surprise).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on April 17, 2015, 09:02:53 AM
MLS related... here is a neat graphic of the number of homegrown players per each MLS team. It speaks to the growth of young, academy driven talent into the (mostly) US pool. Of course, nice job, Canadian teams.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCvATRfUkAAbiMW.png)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on April 29, 2015, 02:27:07 PM
By the way, MU Soccer alum Calum Mallace is playing in the CONCACAF Champions League Final tonight for Montreal Impact. Game is on Fox Sports 2 at 7 pm Milwaukee time.

Montreal picked up the road goal last week as the first leg went 1-1. If Montreal gets the result tonight and the victory, they would be the first ever MLS team to win the CCL under the current format.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 29, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Still just cant get into the MLS. Give me European soccer any day of the week.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 29, 2015, 04:56:58 PM
By the way, MU Soccer alum Calum Mallace is playing in the CONCACAF Champions League Final tonight for Montreal Impact. Game is on Fox Sports 2 at 7 pm Milwaukee time.

Montreal picked up the road goal last week as the first leg went 1-1. If Montreal gets the result tonight and the victory, they would be the first ever MLS team to win the CCL under the current format.

I know very few people outside of the MLS really care about the CCL. And I'm not even convinced the MLS cares.

That said... I love how the Fire are coming together this season. Dare I say they finally hit on a few DP players finally??!?!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on April 30, 2015, 08:57:01 AM
I know very few people outside of the MLS really care about the CCL. And I'm not even convinced the MLS cares.

That said... I love how the Fire are coming together this season. Dare I say they finally hit on a few DP players finally??!?!

This is really only the first year I've paid attention to the CCL, and most of that is because of the Impact's crazy run... which sort of imploded last night. The only reason I posted it is because of the MU connection. Also, I generally agree that MLS doesn't really pay more than lip service to the competition.

Speaking of the Fire, I am cautiously optimistic. After the first three games, they've been solid. The trend of opponent red cards cannot continue forever, however. They need to do a better job of getting shots on target instead of just shots. This weekend's match with SKC will be a big test. If they get a result, my optimism levels will start to go much higher.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 30, 2015, 02:33:53 PM
This is really only the first year I've paid attention to the CCL, and most of that is because of the Impact's crazy run... which sort of imploded last night. The only reason I posted it is because of the MU connection. Also, I generally agree that MLS doesn't really pay more than lip service to the competition.

Speaking of the Fire, I am cautiously optimistic. After the first three games, they've been solid. The trend of opponent red cards cannot continue forever, however. They need to do a better job of getting shots on target instead of just shots. This weekend's match with SKC will be a big test. If they get a result, my optimism levels will start to go much higher.

Agreed. Accam and Maloney have shown real success so far, and I think with time and getting more adjusted, will prove even better. Shipp is continuing his success from last year - only a matter of time till he gets called into a USMNT camp. But I really wish he was 21-22 instead of 24-25. Polster has been a revelation for a rookie - doing exactly what he needs to do and not over-extending himself. Kennedy is a great late game sub. Jones has been better than expected as well. We really need a RB. And I think Sean Johnson departs sooner, rather than later.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 21, 2015, 01:38:37 PM
"He's got loads of his mates watching in bars in Chicago and Milwaukee.."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsPWA5wXXeg

9 years ago, Wisconsin's own Jay DeMerit sent Watford to the Premiership.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 21, 2015, 04:37:04 PM
"He's got loads of his mates watching in bars in Chicago and Milwaukee.."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsPWA5wXXeg

9 years ago, Wisconsin's own Jay DeMerit sent Watford to the Premiership.

Had to be one of the biggest moments ever for an American playing in Europe. At the time they credited that goal as being worth £25 million. While maybe not as spectacular as Dempsey's goal against Juventus, that DeMerit goal was immense.

If anyone is ever looking for a good movie to watch, definitely check out Rise & Shine: The Jay DeMerit Story (http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Shine-Jay-DeMerit/dp/B007K7IBCK). Jay pretty much gave up his entire life for a shot at big time soccer, and went from not being offered a contract in America to playing pick-up games in England to the Premier League with Watford to the World Cup. Amazing story.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 24, 2015, 09:53:56 AM
Liverpool down 5-0 at halftime in Steven Gerrard's sendoff game. My Lord Brendan Rodgers sucks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 26, 2015, 08:54:45 AM
Liverpool down 5-0 at halftime in Steven Gerrard's sendoff game. My Lord Brendan Rodgers sucks.

With nothing to play for other then pride, it's more an indictment on the players Liverpool employs than its manager.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on May 26, 2015, 08:58:05 AM
With nothing to play for other then pride, it's more an indictment on the players Liverpool employs than its manager.


Are you saying that a guaranteed spot in the Europa League group stage wasn't sufficient motivation?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 26, 2015, 09:10:05 AM
Are you saying that a guaranteed spot in the Europa League group stage wasn't sufficient motivation?

Teal?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on May 26, 2015, 09:12:06 AM
Teal?


Yes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 26, 2015, 12:23:37 PM
With nothing to play for other then pride, it's more an indictment on the players Liverpool employs than its manager.

The way Rodgers has consistently found new ways to lose with Liverpool, I think he's the problem. Though I may be biased after he tried his darndest to get my beloved Reading FC relegated. He's a moron. Absolute tool of a manager. But I suppose he's a good fit for Liverpool...they are the Cubs of the EPL. Fans forever loyally turning out, team forever missing out on that coveted league crown.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 26, 2015, 01:01:02 PM
The way Rodgers has consistently found new ways to lose with Liverpool, I think he's the problem. Though I may be biased after he tried his darndest to get my beloved Reading FC relegated. He's a moron. Absolute tool of a manager. But I suppose he's a good fit for Liverpool...they are the Cubs of the EPL. Fans forever loyally turning out, team forever missing out on that coveted league crown.

Except for the eleventy trophies they've won in the last century, it's a great analogy.

I've never been convinced of this idea of him being a good tactician. He tinkers too much, and hasn't been able to build a decent defense in the 3 years he's been on Merseyside.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 26, 2015, 01:17:19 PM
Except for the eleventy trophies they've won in the last century, it's a great analogy.

I've never been convinced of this idea of him being a good tactician. He tinkers too much, and hasn't been able to build a decent defense in the 3 years he's been on Merseyside.

That times 50.  He has his flashes, usually mid-season, and as a result there will be a scoring output, but there is just too much inconsistency.  I think he's a decent rebuilder, but is not a long-term solution.  His inability to put together a team with depth has been infuriating as well.

I don't think they get rid of him unless they are sure of a solid replacement waiting in the wings.  I keep hearing chatter about Klopp, but color me very skeptical.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on May 26, 2015, 01:26:04 PM
He largely built his reputation on what he did at Swansea right?  Is the fact that they are chugging along just fine without him show that maybe it was management more than him?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 26, 2015, 01:41:59 PM
He largely built his reputation on what he did at Swansea right?  Is the fact that they are chugging along just fine without him show that maybe it was management more than him?

Swansea and Watford before that. Here's Rodgers' illustrious career:
.
.
Rodgers got the Watford chance because he was the hot Chelsea assistant, then completely botched the job before escaping relegation late. No idea why Reading hired him, but he botched that and was fired before the New Year. He did nothing at his first two stops to earn a third chance in the Championship, but he got it and made the most, earning promotion in the play-off final, and managed to avoid relegation in his first year.

And that's it. That's his career leading up to Liverpool. His greatest accomplishment, finishing 11th. The guy is an idiot who has simply done enough to keep getting chances. He doesn't deserve his current job, he didn't deserve Swansea or Reading before that. He's probably best suited for League One or League Two, but somehow convinced Liverpool he was worthy, so he'll probably never manage below the Championship again.

My real hope is that he takes over England. That would be hilarious.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 27, 2015, 11:35:02 AM
Whoa. Swiss and US authorities really getting after it. FBI/IRS involved. Also sounds like CONCACAF officials involved as offices raided.

I'll be interested to see if those execs arrested plea down in exchange for testifying against sepp
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on May 27, 2015, 03:34:17 PM
 World Cup Soccer in 130 degree temps !     Nothin' wrong with that!   had to be some 'splainin' because people knew something wasn't kosher.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on May 27, 2015, 04:28:56 PM
Whoa. Swiss and US authorities really getting after it. FBI/IRS involved. Also sounds like CONCACAF officials involved as offices raided.

I'll be interested to see if those execs arrested plea down in exchange for testifying against sepp

Not the death blow but I think it's the first in a line of critical domino's.  It's all NA and LA execs within FIFA that were tagged, but the question is do any of them have enough on the larger fish like Sepp to cut a deal.  FBI doesn't really care about today's fish, but when fish can be landed in the future.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 30, 2015, 11:03:45 AM
As expected, Sepp won re-election fairly easily. I would love to see someone roll on Blatter, but really think he's just a Teflon godfather that will end up getting away with everything. FIFA was always going to re-elect him, I'm sure it was just a matter of rechecking bank balances.

I applaud Gulati trying to clean things up. Unfortunately, unless someone rolls over, it will be four more years of the same. The key is to make sure Blatter's successor doesn't offer more of the same. If the USA has any hope of hosting again before 2042, they need new leadership.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 02, 2015, 12:00:26 PM
Wow....just a few days later and Sepp is going to resign.

FBI must have been closing in.  It really is the only reason that I can think he chose this course. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 02, 2015, 12:11:55 PM
Wow....just a few days later and Sepp is going to resign.

FBI must have been closing in.  It really is the only reason that I can think he chose this course. 

It's big, but there are a lot of changes that still need to be made.

Having said that...

(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130924031040/legomessageboards/images/3/3c/Stephen-colbert-celebration-gif.gif)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on June 02, 2015, 12:39:19 PM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/52/7a/48/527a4867ad8226d7b957c8ddfa4e0659.gif)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 02, 2015, 01:17:07 PM
There are I think, 3 reasons this happened:

1. Sponsors threatened to pull out unless he left.
2. He heard/knew investigations or an arrest was in his near future.
3. He was planning on doing this as soon as the others were arrested, but he didn't want Hussein to win the election. So he gets reelected, resigns, and opens up the possibility of someone of his ilk winning in a special election.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 02, 2015, 01:19:35 PM
I never thought of #3.  That does make some sense.

Another thought is that there was some consensus building among the UEFA powers about removing themselves from FIFA, although every indication was that wasn't happening.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 02, 2015, 01:23:16 PM
I never thought of #3.  That does make some sense.

Another thought is that there was some consensus building among the UEFA powers about removing themselves from FIFA, although every indication was that wasn't happening.

I think that's the move they are going to try.  This is a good step, but in no way should we convince ourselves that the reformers have one.

I'd also predict as further "cover", Qatar will lose the 2022 WC....PR move to say "see, we changed"
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 02, 2015, 02:12:00 PM
I think that's the move they are going to try.  This is a good step, but in no way should we convince ourselves that the reformers have one.

I'd also predict as further "cover", Qatar will lose the 2022 WC....PR move to say "see, we changed"

It'd be more than just a PR move. It would be a humanitarian move considering the plague of death that the Qatar committee has imposed upon countless Sri Lankan, Bangladeshi, etc. slave laborers. Truly horrific events have taken place.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 02, 2015, 02:50:30 PM
Literally the only thing that could happen to improve this is the US getting 2022.  Not because it would be cool, but because Blatter took arrogant, gleeful shots at England and the US being bitter at him cause they didn't get 2018 and 2022.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 02, 2015, 03:40:46 PM
Here's the cynic in me:

If the US had originally received the 2022 WC, no way this whole investigation and arrests happen. Don't get me wrong, there still would have been gross corruption and bribes, but the US would have not been the one to lose out because of it, so we turn a blind eye (if not partake)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on June 02, 2015, 03:42:15 PM
It'd be more than just a PR move. It would be a humanitarian move considering the plague of death that the Qatar committee has imposed upon countless Sri Lankan, Bangladeshi, etc. slave laborers. Truly horrific events have taken place.



Always a disturbing image:

(http://lamcdn.net/hopesandfears.com/post_image-image/yvTqh33KwQJxAhOmU7D91g-article.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 02, 2015, 09:37:57 PM
It'd be more than just a PR move. It would be a humanitarian move considering the plague of death that the Qatar committee has imposed upon countless Sri Lankan, Bangladeshi, etc. slave laborers. Truly horrific events have taken place.



I'm not saying it's just a PR move, it should be done because of the reasons we know here......I'm saying FIFA will view it through the prism of PR so they can say they've reformed but still remaining at the controls of a corruption machine.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 03, 2015, 05:59:52 AM
I totally missed this yesterday while working on home projects. Went out last night and ran into a friend that shocked me with the news. Sounds like Platini and Prince Ali are the favorites to replace him. Really hope it's Ali, because that probably gives us the best shot at 2026. It will be very interesting to see what happens with Qatar.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 03, 2015, 09:43:07 AM
In non-FIFA news, Rodgers is staying at Anfield.  As a Liverpool supporter, my reaction is  :-\.  But given Benitez is heading to Real and Klopp confirmed he is taking a sabbatical, the replacements may not have been there.  Maybe Liverpool starts slow, Rodgers gets the boot at Christmas, and after 6 months, Klopp is ready to take over for a second half push back to CL!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 03, 2015, 09:45:38 AM
2016 Copa America in the US is now in doubt.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fifa-scandal-may-jeopardize-copa-centenario-tournament-1433282104

"Asked during a radio interview in Buenos Aires whether the tournament would occur, Jose Luis Meiszner, the secretary-general of Conmebol, South America’s soccer confederation, said, “Right now, the president of one of the confederations has been arrested; right now the companies that hold the rights have their bank accounts frozen.” He added that “No one can seriously suggest that the future is going to play out as we thought.”

On Monday, two top soccer officials in the U.S. said doubts about the tournament were mounting and the chances were no better than 50-50 that it would occur."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 05, 2015, 03:36:07 PM
So...did anyone else watch that? USA went into halftime level 1-1 with Holland. Controlled much of the first half, though the level scoreline was fair. Then the second half started, within 15 minutes the Dutch put two in the net and led 3-1.

Then...wow. USA gets a counter attack goal when John Brooks runs box-to-box, loses his marker, and pokes one in to make it 3-2. Then in the 89th minute, Reading FC midfielder Danny Williams blasts in his first international goal to make it 3-3. I barely got done celebrating when the Dutch came right back down and blasted a ball off the post. It was quickly turned around and Michael Bradley made an amazing, absolutely amazing, world-class run. Dribbled by guys, dribbled over a guy (literally slid the ball under the defender and hurdled him simultaneously), dribbled past more guys, made a quick cut to free up Yedlin, who took the ball, crossed, and found Bobby Wood in the 90th minute who scored the winner as the USA escaped Amsterdam with a 4-3 victory over the Dutch.

I know...only a friendly, but the USA had never beat the Dutch in 4 previous tries and had scored only 1 goal in those 4 games combined. The team looked legitimately dangerous throughout much of the first half, and while there were some defending miscues, they kept attacking and kept after the Dutch. Guzan made some nice saves (though Huntelaar largely abused our CBs) and all in all it was a very well played game.

The second half, especially the last 20 minutes, was incredible fun as a USA fan, going from thinking we were beaten, to getting a sliver of hope, to thinking we'd actually come away with a draw, to HOLY CRAP WE'RE GONNA WIN! And all that against the Dutch A team and us without Jozy, Clint, Bedoya, or Howard in the lineup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 05, 2015, 04:02:06 PM
So...did anyone else watch that? USA went into halftime level 1-1 with Holland. Controlled much of the first half, though the level scoreline was fair. Then the second half started, within 15 minutes the Dutch put two in the net and led 3-1.

Then...wow. USA gets a counter attack goal when John Brooks runs box-to-box, loses his marker, and pokes one in to make it 3-2. Then in the 89th minute, Reading FC midfielder Danny Williams blasts in his first international goal to make it 3-3. I barely got done celebrating when the Dutch came right back down and blasted a ball off the post. It was quickly turned around and Michael Bradley made an amazing, absolutely amazing, world-class run. Dribbled by guys, dribbled over a guy (literally slid the ball under the defender and hurdled him simultaneously), dribbled past more guys, made a quick cut to free up Yedlin, who took the ball, crossed, and found Bobby Wood in the 90th minute who scored the winner as the USA escaped Amsterdam with a 4-3 victory over the Dutch.

I know...only a friendly, but the USA had never beat the Dutch in 4 previous tries and had scored only 1 goal in those 4 games combined. The team looked legitimately dangerous throughout much of the first half, and while there were some defending miscues, they kept attacking and kept after the Dutch. Guzan made some nice saves (though Huntelaar largely abused our CBs) and all in all it was a very well played game.

The second half, especially the last 20 minutes, was incredible fun as a USA fan, going from thinking we were beaten, to getting a sliver of hope, to thinking we'd actually come away with a draw, to HOLY CRAP WE'RE GONNA WIN! And all that against the Dutch A team and us without Jozy, Clint, Bedoya, or Howard in the lineup.

Here's my critique (and many other high-level analysts have noticed this trend too..): under Klinsy, the US typically plays well in first halves, then comes out in the second and struggles after adjustments made by opponents. Today, US played very well first half. In the second half, while the starters were still in, it was obvious the Dutch had made adjustments and were dominating the game. It was also pretty obvious the Dutch quit on the game once up and the subs started to come in. So, while there were positives, and yes, the final score said the US won, I still have many concerns about the US in second halves.

I will commend the youth/subs for not quitting and playing well/taking advantage of their time on the field.

And there shouldn't be any more needed evidence that the Dutch had given up than them subbing in Sneider.

Also, I'm totally okay with us moving forward as an organization without Howard and Dempsey. They won't be there in 2018, so might as well start now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 05, 2015, 04:26:16 PM
Here's my critique (and many other high-level analysts have noticed this trend too..): under Klinsy, the US typically plays well in first halves, then comes out in the second and struggles after adjustments made by opponents. Today, US played very well first half. In the second half, while the starters were still in, it was obvious the Dutch had made adjustments and were dominating the game. It was also pretty obvious the Dutch quit on the game once up and the subs started to come in. So, while there were positives, and yes, the final score said the US won, I still have many concerns about the US in second halves.

I will commend the youth/subs for not quitting and playing well/taking advantage of their time on the field.

And there shouldn't be any more needed evidence that the Dutch had given up than them subbing in Sneider.

Also, I'm totally okay with us moving forward as an organization without Howard and Dempsey. They won't be there in 2018, so might as well start now.

I'm totally on board with the second half issues, and believe I've mentioned that in this thread before. But while the Dutch did have some definite lax defending, the USA attack was pretty solid throughout the game, while the Dutch defense had numerous lapses throughout. I'm not saying the different tone by Holland didn't make a difference (it undoubtedly did) but it was still a fun and entertaining result.

The problem with Klinsmann, in my opinion, is that our talent pool is not well-suited to what he wants to do. Sadly, I'm not even convinced it will be in the next decade or so. Klinsmann wants to be an attacking team with aggressive wings and overlapping fullbacks.

The problem with that is our best ever wing combination was Dempsey and Donovan, both of whom were better suited to play forward. Guys like Bedoya, Zusi, Shea, they just aren't world class. Yedlin is the first attacking fullback we've really produced (Johnson, Chandler were more German products). We are a team that is best suited to play through the middle of the pitch. Our traditional strengths are our central defenders, our holding mids, and our best strikers are the ones who've excelled in hold-up play. Staunch defense, scoring off set-pieces, that's what our players excel at.

But Jurgen doesn't want that. Experimenting with multiple attackers, players in different (usually more attacking) positions, sometimes as few as 3 defenders, it just doesn't match what we do. And while there are supposedly talents on the horizon, will Rubin, Green, Zelalem, Arriola, or any of the rest of these prospects be the game changing afterburner types that change us into what JK wants? And will they do it fast enough? I can't see Green or Rubin thriving without a strong hold-up player to run off of. Zelalem may be a talent, but watching him today, Ukraine isolated him on the wing and he struggled to make an impact. He's probably best as a play-making 10 in the middle of the pitch, but teams are already figuring that out at the U-20 level, no reason to think they won't address that by halftime once he's playing full internationals. And what makes Arriola or any of our young wings any different than past wings we've had that are serviceable but not stars?

Today was great fun to watch. Really enjoyed the comeback and seeing the fight in the team. Bradley's run was stunning. I don't care the circumstance, that was world class all the way. But is Klinsmann the long-term answer? I'm not convinced he's the short term answer. But he's Gulati's guy, so we're stuck with him for 3 more years. I hope that in the long-term, his tenure proves to be a positive, even if the results never quite reach what we hope for (WC quarterfinals or better).

For all the time he's been here, Jurgen still doesn't understand Americans. Maybe adopting more Europeans and attempting to retrain the Americans he has will help get our players on the same page as him. My fear is that while Jurgen wants to get the Americans to play like Europeans, we need a manager who understands that to win, we have to do it as Americans. JK simply doesn't seem to get that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 06, 2015, 09:07:21 PM
Canada did not look comfortable against China today in the Women's World Cup.   Controlled possession, but sloppy passing, poor decisions.... just painful to watch.   But, the home team got the win thanks to a PK from their star.   Not an artistic success, but I am sure they will take it.    China never sustained an attack.   A few decent runs, but never anything organized. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 07, 2015, 08:36:12 AM
So...did anyone else watch that? USA went into halftime level 1-1 with Holland. Controlled much of the first half, though the level scoreline was fair. Then the second half started, within 15 minutes the Dutch put two in the net and led 3-1.

Then...wow. USA gets a counter attack goal when John Brooks runs box-to-box, loses his marker, and pokes one in to make it 3-2. Then in the 89th minute, Reading FC midfielder Danny Williams blasts in his first international goal to make it 3-3. I barely got done celebrating when the Dutch came right back down and blasted a ball off the post. It was quickly turned around and Michael Bradley made an amazing, absolutely amazing, world-class run. Dribbled by guys, dribbled over a guy (literally slid the ball under the defender and hurdled him simultaneously), dribbled past more guys, made a quick cut to free up Yedlin, who took the ball, crossed, and found Bobby Wood in the 90th minute who scored the winner as the USA escaped Amsterdam with a 4-3 victory over the Dutch.

I know...only a friendly, but the USA had never beat the Dutch in 4 previous tries and had scored only 1 goal in those 4 games combined. The team looked legitimately dangerous throughout much of the first half, and while there were some defending miscues, they kept attacking and kept after the Dutch. Guzan made some nice saves (though Huntelaar largely abused our CBs) and all in all it was a very well played game.

The second half, especially the last 20 minutes, was incredible fun as a USA fan, going from thinking we were beaten, to getting a sliver of hope, to thinking we'd actually come away with a draw, to HOLY CRAP WE'RE GONNA WIN! And all that against the Dutch A team and us without Jozy, Clint, Bedoya, or Howard in the lineup.

I was unfortunately unable to watch the game while at work, was tracking it online when I saw Brooks scored to bring us within one.  Things got crazy at work and then I completely forgot about the game until 7pm when I was catching my flight.  I was ecstatic.

I still haven't watched it yet, but hoping to catch the replay tonight.  I've seen the extended highlights and while the defense looks subject, Guzan stood on his head and this team was very attacking.  It looked like the Yanks had quite a lot of chances.

The best part about this is, this game was played with mostly a group of very young players...Yedlin, Brooks, Wood, Morris, Zardes, Williams, I'm sure there were more.

And another note Brew, not to nitpick...I believe Yedlin assisted on the cross to Brooks, it looked like it was Morris who had the cross to Wood.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: w0bbie on June 08, 2015, 09:26:26 AM
Does anyone have suggestions for Milwaukee restaurants that will be prioritizing the USWNT game over hockey tonight?  I know the Highbury and Nomad will, but I'm hoping to be able to get some dinner as well.

Three Lions?  Upper 90?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 08, 2015, 05:27:42 PM
Three Lions is a decent shout. Good atmosphere, spacious, decent food. Upper 90 gets a bit crowded and draws more of a general crowd, being downtown.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 08, 2015, 08:23:15 PM
Slow start for the US, nice finish.   I wish they would have possessed the ball in the first half like they started to do in the second once they got the lead.   Too many long passes trying for the quick score without really organizing anything.    Ah, well, a win is a win, especially with Sweden and Nigeria tying.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 08, 2015, 10:47:06 PM
I wish they would have possessed the ball in the first half like they started to do in the second once they got the lead.   Too many long passes trying for the quick score without really organizing anything.   

US started slowly, looked unsteady on the backline, but Solo was locked in and made some fantastic saves.

Rapinoe's work rate was INSANE. She looked like she was everywhere. Just a fantastic motor and play on the ball.

And to your point above, shocked that Wambach played the entire 90. To be honest, the offense looked sluggish with her influence, too many balls flung up looking for her aerial play. She's a legend, but she should be a role player up top once Morgan is healthy, not the focus.  Would love to see Press and Leroux or Press and Morgan up top. Press is the most underrated player on this team, lethal finisher, incredible speed, but she's being asked to play out of position. Her goal was the result of her slipping forward and playing in a more natural spot.

Can't wait for Sweden
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 09, 2015, 06:46:31 AM
Hopefully that got the nerves out. Rapinoe and Solo were excellent. Hope's first save off the crossbar was fantastic. I only watched bits of this in the second, but I agree that lobbing it for Abby doesn't play to the overall strength of the team. Lots of pace and possession, need to exploit those advantages.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 09, 2015, 09:10:05 AM
And to your point above, shocked that Wambach played the entire 90. To be honest, the offense looked sluggish with her influence, too many balls flung up looking for her aerial play. She's a legend, but she should be a role player up top once Morgan is healthy, not the focus.

Reminiscent of watching Liverpool this season when Gerrard was in the team. Deferring too much to a legend that has lost a yard or two of pace. I think Abby is best suited as a sub at this point. Her size and aerial prowess are a weapon, and her hold up play can help when trying to kill off a game.

The US has to be better in the middle of the pitch to win this tournament. Got overrun early by the Aussies, and the majority of the US attack came from the flanks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 09, 2015, 09:10:35 AM
Press is out of position. Leroux is out of position. Wambach negates their advantage. Krieger was destroyed. Lloyd rarely helped in the middle. Solo got lucky with the crossbar.

Other then Rapinoe and Johnston, no outfield player should be happy. And surely Ellis can't get it this wrong tactically on Friday. It came down to stamina but they can't bank on that being successful every match going forward.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 09, 2015, 09:59:36 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-fc-yahoo/australian-soccer-website-says-the-uswnt--just-aren-t-that-good-044522277.html

The aussie-aussie-aussie's weren't impressed, either. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 09, 2015, 04:28:20 PM
Not entirely wrong. Australia certainly better side in the first half and DeCicco even mentioned he felt the US was playing worse 15 minutes into the second half then they did at the end of the first half. One minute later, Australian defender fell asleep and lost Press for the goal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 09, 2015, 04:33:12 PM
Agreed, the US looked sluggish and out of sorts for long periods of time.  However, that article also blathers on about Australia surpassing the US as a footballing nation.  The US played like crap and still beat them 3-1.  Without their top striker.  And tinkering with a new lineup.  I hope Sweden beats Australia in their final game and they can take their objective superiority home before the knockout stages.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 10, 2015, 03:36:36 PM
Bobby Wood, the closer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 10, 2015, 04:03:07 PM
Exhibitions are like kissing your sister yet that was a very fun 45 minutes to watch from the US. Energetic, quick, confident, expressive, etc.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 10, 2015, 06:02:50 PM
http://fusion.net/story/148612/germany-1-2-united-states-michael-bradley-analysis/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 13, 2015, 11:31:50 AM
Other then Rapinoe and Johnston, no outfield player should be happy. And surely Ellis can't get it this wrong tactically on Friday. It came down to stamina but they can't bank on that being successful every match going forward.

Johnston again was great versus Sweden. Rapinoe quieter. But the midfield/forward tandems continued to be a fractured mess. Ellis has no idea who to play and where to play them and, shocking as it seems, the US is now basically a catenaccio convert.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 13, 2015, 11:40:54 AM
With all of that talent, the women look lost on offense.   They are nearly unable to string together consecutive passes in the offensive end.    Always looking for the long pass over the top.   Frustrating. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 13, 2015, 11:44:02 AM
I'll stick to watching Copa America right now, the women's game is tough to watch.  I'm working a Copa America project for a vendor for a new streaming service on yaveo.com (http://yaveo.com), having fun putting the games on.  Two more today.

(http://i58.tinypic.com/2vs0sol.jpg)


(http://i57.tinypic.com/takndx.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 13, 2015, 12:17:11 PM
I'll stick to watching Copa America right now, the women's game is tough to watch.  I'm working a Copa America project for a vendor for a new streaming service on yaveo.com, having fun putting the games on.  Two more today.

Didn't watch last night but the Chile-Ecuador opener was a quite entertaining 90 minutes. This tournament is always fantastic to watch and played correctly during the winter months. Messi today should be spectacular.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 13, 2015, 12:22:25 PM
With all of that talent, the women look lost on offense.   They are nearly unable to string together consecutive passes in the offensive end.    Always looking for the long pass over the top.   Frustrating. 

Agreed. Feel like it's mostly on the coaching staff. It feels like they are built around Lloyd and Wambach, both of whom aren't what they once were.

The defense is fine as is, the striker rotation is as good as can be until Morgan gets back to 100%. Midfield is the biggest issue. I'd like to see Rapinoe in a more central role. Play her as a 10 behind the strikers and even give her the armband as she seems to be the heart and soul of the team. In the past couple years I've loved watching the development of Tobin Heath. I don't know if she's still slowed by the hamstring, but her and Holiday should be on the wings.

The other midfield spot...I'm not sure. Lloyd just doesn't look like what she was. O'Reilly or Brian might be a better option.

I came into the WC with high hopes of a third star. Now...I just don't see it. Sweden exposed the US numerous times yesterday. Their counter attack should have produced a couple goals but thankfully the defense bailed us out when possession failed the front end. With Pinoe as a hub and Holliday and Heath running on, maybe that would work. Let O'Reilly set up as a bridge between the midfield and attack.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 13, 2015, 01:02:44 PM
Didn't watch last night but the Chile-Ecuador opener was a quite entertaining 90 minutes. This tournament is always fantastic to watch and played correctly during the winter months. Messi today should be spectacular.

Cheeing for my boys from Colombia. Should have been the favorites but ravaged by injuries. Little light in the midfield due to no Aguilar, Guarin and Quintero but Falcao is back in form so that helps. Interested to see who plays next to Zapata in center back since Yepes is retired.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 13, 2015, 02:07:33 PM
Looking forward to the USA U-20 team tonight. Lots of young talents there that are fun to watch. Zelalem, Rubio, and Hyndmann are real talents. I also like the promise of the two hyphenated center backs, Palmer-Brown and Carter-Vickers. They play in the U-20 World Cup Quarterfinals tonight against Serbia at 11:30 pm eastern on FS1. For anyone looking for a US team to cheer for that can't quite enjoy the ladies game, this may be well worth the watch. Beat a talented Colombia squad 1-0 to get here.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 13, 2015, 03:06:25 PM
Didn't watch last night but the Chile-Ecuador opener was a quite entertaining 90 minutes. This tournament is always fantastic to watch and played correctly during the winter months. Messi today should be spectacular.

You missed nothing last night....not a quality game. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on June 13, 2015, 04:53:11 PM
[quo

r=Golden Avalanche link=topic=27124.msg736188#msg736188 date=1434213110]
Johnston again was great versus Sweden. Rapinoe quieter. But the midfield/forward tandems continued to be a fractured mess. Ellis has no idea who to play and where to play them and, shocking as it seems, the US is now basically a catenaccio convert.
[/quote]

Well, the Azzurri did pretty well playing that way, didn't they?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 13, 2015, 05:48:08 PM
Looking forward to the USA U-20 team tonight. Lots of young talents there that are fun to watch. Zelalem, Rubio, and Hyndmann are real talents. I also like the promise of the two hyphenated center backs, Palmer-Brown and Carter-Vickers. They play in the U-20 World Cup Quarterfinals tonight against Serbia at 11:30 pm eastern on FS1. For anyone looking for a US team to cheer for that can't quite enjoy the ladies game, this may be well worth the watch. Beat a talented Colombia squad 1-0 to get here.

Hate to break it to you, but that colombia squad isn't that great compared to the last few years. Don't know the American team that well but don't put a win over the U-20 colombia side as a baseline.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 13, 2015, 06:29:11 PM
Paraguay just scored in the 90th minute to tie Argentina after trailing 2-0 earlier in the game.  Messi and the Argentines are stunned.  The whole tournament could be up for grabs now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 14, 2015, 06:40:48 AM
Paraguay just scored in the 90th minute to tie Argentina after trailing 2-0 earlier in the game.  Messi and the Argentines are stunned.  The whole tournament could be up for grabs now.


The whole tournament is basically set up so Chile plays Brazil or Argentina in the final. Both the winner of Argentina's and Brazil's group, and the runner up in Argentina's, are on one side of the bracket for the knock out stages.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 14, 2015, 09:20:58 AM
Hate to break it to you, but that colombia squad isn't that great compared to the last few years. Don't know the American team that well but don't put a win over the U-20 colombia side as a baseline.

Colombia isn't near as good as their current golden generation, but they still have some talent. Unfortunately, the US went out last night. They defended pretty well from what I saw and had possession, but couldn't turn that into enough chances. Went to penalties, and just too many missed chances. Steffen made consecutive saves to keep the shootout going but some soft attempts and blatant misses rendered his heroics moot.

My biggest takeaway is we still lack that one dynamic playmaker. Zelalem shows flashes, but couldn't set up that final ball. Clearly he's young, but the parts I watched showed that possession wasn't a problem but no one could open up the final third. Too bad, with Mali waiting they had a real chance to make the Final.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 14, 2015, 11:53:54 AM
[quo

r=Golden Avalanche link=topic=27124.msg736188#msg736188 date=1434213110]
Johnston again was great versus Sweden. Rapinoe quieter. But the midfield/forward tandems continued to be a fractured mess. Ellis has no idea who to play and where to play them and, shocking as it seems, the US is now basically a catenaccio convert.


Well, the Azzurri did pretty well playing that way, didn't they?

Indeed. But they invented it. Ingrained upon the player from youth to senior levels and every tier in between. Not so with the US Women's program.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 14, 2015, 04:14:00 PM
Venezuela just beat Columbia in the Copa.   Brazil v Peru next.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 17, 2015, 08:15:44 PM
USA vs. Colombia in the round of 16. Vamos Colombia. Could never cheer for the US over Colombia.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 17, 2015, 08:21:43 PM
USA vs. Colombia in the round of 16. Vamos Colombia. Could never cheer for the US over Colombia.

Why?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 17, 2015, 08:27:01 PM
Why?

Half Colombian (though if you met me you would never guess it), mom was born there. Absolutely love the country have the best time whenever I visit. Plus it would mean so much more to the people there then it would to the US.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 17, 2015, 08:30:21 PM
Half Colombian (though if you met me you would never guess it), mom was born there. Absolutely love the country have the best time whenever I visit. Plus it would mean so much more to the people there then it would to the US.


Ah...that's right...I remember you mentioning this last year too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 17, 2015, 08:36:09 PM

Ah...that's right...I remember you mentioning this last year too.

In all honesty though if you're looking for an awesome vacation abroad for pretty cheap check out colombia. The coast I'd beautiful, not nearly as dangerous as people say and they love to drink.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 17, 2015, 09:56:36 PM
Go figure, Colombia gets shut out by Venezuela of all teams and comes back to beat Brazil the next time out with a goal from their worst defenceman of all people.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 17, 2015, 11:51:37 PM
Go figure, Colombia gets shut out by Venezuela of all teams and comes back to beat Brazil the next time out with a goal from their worst defenceman of all people.

And Neymar with the red card after the game is over.....screwing up a ton of my advertising.  Grrrrr
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on June 18, 2015, 10:01:44 AM
Wouldn't mind a little revenge for this sucker punch in 2012.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCMyvd12i3o
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: w0bbie on June 18, 2015, 10:29:34 AM
Half Colombian (though if you met me you would never guess it), mom was born there. Absolutely love the country have the best time whenever I visit. Plus it would mean so much more to the people there then it would to the US.

Is this actually true?  If it were a junior or senior men's team, then it's unquestionable, but does it still hold for the women's team?  Men in Blazers were talking yesterday about how huge the WWC is in the USA compared to other countries.  They were comparing the TV coverage here (2 of the 3 USA group games were broadcast OTA on Fox, the other nationally on FS1) versus Rog struggling to find the England game on TV in London.  They also said when you see WWC coverage abroad, it is more likely to focus on how the Americans are so into it rather than covering the actual soccer.  I realize this is anecdotal and likely embellished for comedic purposes, but I suspect it also has some truth to it.  Here's a screenshot from the Bogota newspaper El Tiempo's Futbol page.  The morning after advancing to the knockout stage, there is one article and the WWC does not even get a link in the Futbol Topics of the Day at the top of the page.  On the other hand, US publications have been giving the WWC considerable coverage.

(http://i.imgur.com/mutvDGU.png)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 18, 2015, 01:48:13 PM
Is this actually true?  If it were a junior or senior men's team, then it's unquestionable, but does it still hold for the women's team?  Men in Blazers were talking yesterday about how huge the WWC is in the USA compared to other countries.  They were comparing the TV coverage here (2 of the 3 USA group games were broadcast OTA on Fox, the other nationally on FS1) versus Rog struggling to find the England game on TV in London.  They also said when you see WWC coverage abroad, it is more likely to focus on how the Americans are so into it rather than covering the actual soccer.  I realize this is anecdotal and likely embellished for comedic purposes, but I suspect it also has some truth to it.  Here's a screenshot from the Bogota newspaper El Tiempo's Futbol page.  The morning after advancing to the knockout stage, there is one article and the WWC does not even get a link in the Futbol Topics of the Day at the top of the page.  On the other hand, US publications have been giving the WWC considerable coverage.

Yeah, this is the same understanding I have as well.  There is a ton of pressure for the women's team to not only perform well, but win the whole damn thing.  Meanwhile, the Colombian women's team was picked to finish last in their group, I would expect them advancing through to make much bigger news.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 18, 2015, 02:21:11 PM
Half Colombian (though if you met me you would never guess it), mom was born there. Absolutely love the country have the best time whenever I visit. Plus it would mean so much more to the people there then it would to the US.

That statement is nowhere near factual.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 23, 2015, 08:44:05 AM
There is some good MLS soccer this weekend as its rivalry week.  Sunday has NYCFC vs Red Bulls, Yankee Stadium looks like it will be sold out (I'll be heading there in blue of course).  Its tough to tell how much that means in attendance since not all sections are opened (directly behind home plate would be terrible seats so they don't open the section.  Looks like this time they have nearly the entire stadium open, so I'm guessing around 45,000 will be there.

On another related note, NYCFC is rumored to be adding Andrea Pirlo.  Another aging star, but an absolute legend.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 23, 2015, 10:54:07 PM
Man does that Women's World Cup bracket look unbalanced. The top three teams (Germany, USA, France) all playing into the same semi-final. Whoever comes out on that side will certainly be favored in the final.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 23, 2015, 10:56:15 PM
There is some good MLS soccer this weekend as its rivalry week.  Sunday has NYCFC vs Red Bulls, Yankee Stadium looks like it will be sold out (I'll be heading there in blue of course).  Its tough to tell how much that means in attendance since not all sections are opened (directly behind home plate would be terrible seats so they don't open the section.  Looks like this time they have nearly the entire stadium open, so I'm guessing around 45,000 will be there.

On another related note, NYCFC is rumored to be adding Andrea Pirlo.  Another aging star, but an absolute legend.

An intriguing story/dynamic....

http://www.hudsonriverblue.com/2015/6/22/8822895/report-nyc-staff-wanted-younger-dp-man-city-overruled-them?utm_campaign=hudsonriverblue&utm_content=article%3Atop&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter#
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 24, 2015, 07:27:49 AM
An intriguing story/dynamic....

http://www.hudsonriverblue.com/2015/6/22/8822895/report-nyc-staff-wanted-younger-dp-man-city-overruled-them?utm_campaign=hudsonriverblue&utm_content=article%3Atop&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter#

Yeah it is, I've been following it somewhat closely and don't think its too much the controversy as some of the reporters are making it out to be.

I think Kreis and Reyna wanted a younger forward initially, then CFG said, "We can bring in Pirlo".  There isn't any way you turn down the chance to sign Pirlo.  I doubt there was any push back from Kreis/Reyna on the idea of bringing him in.

And personally, I understand wanting to bring in younger players with star potential to build around long term, but this is a brand new team.  Bringing in an Italian legend into NYC will help generate some interest in the team in these first couple of years, bring in the younger star when he retires.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 24, 2015, 09:00:05 AM
Yeah it is, I've been following it somewhat closely and don't think its too much the controversy as some of the reporters are making it out to be.

I think Kreis and Reyna wanted a younger forward initially, then CFG said, "We can bring in Pirlo".  There isn't any way you turn down the chance to sign Pirlo.  I doubt there was any push back from Kreis/Reyna on the idea of bringing him in.

And personally, I understand wanting to bring in younger players with star potential to build around long term, but this is a brand new team.  Bringing in an Italian legend into NYC will help generate some interest in the team in these first couple of years, bring in the younger star when he retires.

Considering Kreis' comments after he turned down the chance to sign Xavi two months ago I think he feels there is every way he would turn down the chance to sign Pirlo.

It's ironic that the Pirlo news comes as NYC is actually resembling a decent football team with their play after weeks upon weeks of dogcrap. Way to upset the apple cart, Sheik Mansour Dumbass.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 24, 2015, 10:13:50 AM
Considering Kreis' comments after he turned down the chance to sign Xavi two months ago I think he feels there is every way he would turn down the chance to sign Pirlo.

It's ironic that the Pirlo news comes as NYC is actually resembling a decent football team with their play after weeks upon weeks of dogcrap. Way to upset the apple cart, Sheik Mansour Dumbass.

Agree to disagree.  Pirlo's game doesn't require him to run all that much, and his game is still very elite.  There is a big difference between him and Xavi as Xavi has been coming late off the bench for Barca, whereas Pirlo plays full 90 consistently for Juve, and Liverpool was just trying to sign him.  He was named Serie A player of the year as recently as 2014.  The guy still has plenty of game and the demand for him this year was miles higher than Xavi.

I do like the recent play, but the team as is still isn't talented enough to not tinker with it.  Especially with the upcoming weeks of losing Mix to the Gold Cup and a much tougher schedule going forward.  There are quite a lot of new talented players coming in beginning in July.  From current signings, you'll see a new LB (Angelino), RB (Iraola), CAM (Lampard), and now CDM (Pirlo).  As well as rumblings of another signing or two.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 24, 2015, 10:27:42 AM
Man does that Women's World Cup bracket look unbalanced. The top three teams (Germany, USA, France) all playing into the same semi-final. Whoever comes out on that side will certainly be favored in the final.

And this was likely done on purpose.  The top seeds were not drawn into groups, but were placed into groups.  And those top seeds all won their groups and were placed into their slots in the knockout stage.  I think it is fairly obvious that they gave Canada as clear a shot as possible to get to the finals to help with attendance. 

Brazil losing early in the knockouts means Canada has to face England, and then likely Japan, to get to the Finals. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 24, 2015, 12:10:40 PM
Agree to disagree.  Pirlo's game doesn't require him to run all that much, and his game is still very elite.  There is a big difference between him and Xavi as Xavi has been coming late off the bench for Barca, whereas Pirlo plays full 90 consistently for Juve, and Liverpool was just trying to sign him.  He was named Serie A player of the year as recently as 2014.  The guy still has plenty of game and the demand for him this year was miles higher than Xavi.

Pirlo's demand is likely the same place it had been for Xavi.....the middle east (Liverpool wasn't realistic). For Kreis' purposes, Pirlo and Xavi don't have much difference in their games as both would be deferential to Mix and Lampard. Even the NYC color analyst Ian Joy talked two weeks ago how Pirlo doesn't fit the system nor style Kreis wants and he wouldn't see any benefit to NYC using a DP slot on Pirlo, regardless of the player Pirlo has been. This was before the Sheik demanded the signing so I'm sure we'll see Joy change his tone in the upcoming days.

No denying Pirlo has the fountain of youth elixir in his back pocket but many, many people have and will opine that he's not what NYC needs. This is pure marketing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 24, 2015, 12:24:17 PM
Pirlo's demand is likely the same place it had been for Xavi.....the middle east (Liverpool wasn't realistic). For Kreis' purposes, Pirlo and Xavi don't have much difference in their games as both would be deferential to Mix and Lampard. Even the NYC color analyst Ian Joy talked two weeks ago how Pirlo doesn't fit the system nor style Kreis wants and he wouldn't see any benefit to NYC using a DP slot on Pirlo, regardless of the player Pirlo has been. This was before the Sheik demanded the signing so I'm sure we'll see Joy change his tone in the upcoming days.

No denying Pirlo has the fountain of youth elixir in his back pocket but many, many people have and will opine that he's not what NYC needs. This is pure marketing.

Part of my opinion on this may be a bit wearing the blue and white glasses, but I disagree with this a bit.

To be honest, I'm not too sure where Liverpool being unrealistic is coming from, just that they were making a serious run at him, but it would most likely come down to him staying at Juve or coming to NYC.  The other place thrown out was Sydney, but I don't think that ever had serious potential.

I like Ian Joy, but I don't get how Pirlo doesn't fit Kreis' system.  Kreis uses the 4-4-2 diamond in which one of his major components is a deep-lying playmaker.  Pirlo is potentially one of the best deep-lying playmakers in the world.  I heard Ian Joy's comments on it, but just didn't feel that was completely accurate.  The one DP that I don't think quite fits Kreis' system is Lampard.

Pirlo will be at NYCFC max for a year and a half I'm sure.  I'm not too sure there were other players that would have made a better DP signing right now.  I do get the marketing point, I will definitely say this is a grand slam for that, tapping into the Italian market and generating additional instant interest in a team in its first season, but I really do think its much more than that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 24, 2015, 01:09:39 PM
To be honest, I'm not too sure where Liverpool being unrealistic is coming from, just that they were making a serious run at him, but it would most likely come down to him staying at Juve or coming to NYC.  The other place thrown out was Sydney, but I don't think that ever had serious potential.

There was never a serious run at him. That was all tabloid nonsense.

If they wanted to keep an aging midfielder to sit back, play 40 yard balls, and take set pieces, they would have kept Gerrard.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 24, 2015, 01:36:42 PM
There was never a serious run at him. That was all tabloid nonsense.

If they wanted to keep an aging midfielder to sit back, play 40 yard balls, and take set pieces, they would have kept Gerrard.

Ahh, I don't follow the EPL too closely, but had seen quite a few major media outlets reporting it, so figured they were in play a bit.  But honestly had not looked too far into those rumors.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 25, 2015, 08:41:53 AM
I like Ian Joy, but I don't get how Pirlo doesn't fit Kreis' system.  Kreis uses the 4-4-2 diamond in which one of his major components is a deep-lying playmaker.  Pirlo is potentially one of the best deep-lying playmakers in the world.  I heard Ian Joy's comments on it, but just didn't feel that was completely accurate.  The one DP that I don't think quite fits Kreis' system is Lampard.

Pirlo will be at NYCFC max for a year and a half I'm sure.  I'm not too sure there were other players that would have made a better DP signing right now.  I do get the marketing point, I will definitely say this is a grand slam for that, tapping into the Italian market and generating additional instant interest in a team in its first season, but I really do think its much more than that.

The other aspect of this entire thing is the MLS parochialism. Joy is new to it in a sense since he's spent most of his TV days on beIn but I'll bet there are a ton of "expert" commentators who were just waiting for NYC to make the signing(s) that didn't originate from Kreis' mind but originated in Manchester just so they have the ability to bemoan NYC as only an extension of the Citeh brand (in their viewing).

This is a weird one since Pirlo is a guy anyone following the game the last 15 years have enjoyed immensely whether in Milan, Turin, or the national program. Having him in the States will be great to watch and, selfishly, I think it's tremendous for us that Mix can spend time with such a master. You just wonder how long Kreis is down for the gig when he knows his input as manager is not the utmost consideration when acquiring players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 25, 2015, 11:23:14 AM
The other aspect of this entire thing is the MLS parochialism. Joy is new to it in a sense since he's spent most of his TV days on beIn but I'll bet there are a ton of "expert" commentators who were just waiting for NYC to make the signing(s) that didn't originate from Kreis' mind but originated in Manchester just so they have the ability to bemoan NYC as only an extension of the Citeh brand (in their viewing).

This is a weird one since Pirlo is a guy anyone following the game the last 15 years have enjoyed immensely whether in Milan, Turin, or the national program. Having him in the States will be great to watch and, selfishly, I think it's tremendous for us that Mix can spend time with such a master. You just wonder how long Kreis is down for the gig when he knows his input as manager is not the utmost consideration when acquiring players.

Yep, agreed.  I'm sure there have been several writers waiting to write that narrative.  And again, I think the Pirlo move was CFG's idea, but I don't think it was the power play many writers are making it out to be.

The one item that I very much wonder about, is the loans from MCFC and how those are delegated.  Right now, NYCFC has taken a couple, and one of them playing very well (Facey) with another coming in July with high hopes.  I wonder how those loans are decided (does MCFC tell Kreis who he is taking? or does Kreis choose and ask?) as well as what kind of discussions there may be around playing time expectations.

Also, agreed on the development of Mix.  He's only 24 and now gets the opportunity to learn from Pirlo, Lampard, and David Villa.  Its gotta be a big positive for his development from a USMNT standpoint as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 25, 2015, 11:37:54 AM
Interesting..

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/25/beckenbauer-tells-schweinsteiger-not-to-go-to-manchester-united-wait-for-mls-move-instead/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 25, 2015, 05:35:58 PM
Interesting..

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/25/beckenbauer-tells-schweinsteiger-not-to-go-to-manchester-united-wait-for-mls-move-instead/

Der Kaiser certainly has never been shy with the verbals.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 27, 2015, 06:03:28 AM
The women's team beat China 1-0 to earn a semi-final date with #1 Germany. Despite the scoreline, this was the best the US has looked. Dominant in possession and created a ton of chances. With better finishing it could have been 3 or 4. Germany came from behind to win on penalties. Should be a good match Tuesday, hope it's slow at work.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 29, 2015, 08:36:20 AM
Despite the improved play the problem remains that the US team cannot finish chances to kill off a game. China was slow, unskilled, unambitious, and more than happy to lose by only 1-0. Germany and France would have destroyed that Chinese team if put in that position. It will be interesting to see what happens if two world powers can sleepwalk through the Cup only to find themselves having a replay of the 2011 Final. That is likely the only lose-lose scenario possible for the women's game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 29, 2015, 08:54:47 AM
Despite the improved play the problem remains that the US team cannot finish chances to kill off a game. China was slow, unskilled, unambitious, and more than happy to lose by only 1-0. Germany and France would have destroyed that Chinese team if put in that position. It will be interesting to see what happens if two world powers can sleepwalk through the Cup only to find themselves having a replay of the 2011 Final. That is likely the only lose-lose scenario possible for the women's game.

They did miss some great chances, no doubt about that, but my real hope is that Ellis is going to adapt a bit more attacking mentality now. Getting Rapinoe back for Germany will help, and the team created a ton more with Wambach coming in off the bench rather than being the focal point of a long-ball offense.

Players like Rapinoe and Heath are better when they can attack up the wings, and I was much happier with the forward combination of Morgan and Rodriguez. This team has fast playmakers that need to be allowed to play that way. I don't think we'll be able to possess nearly that well against Germany, so those quick attacks are essential to creating chances, as playing hoofball to Wambach more often than not will lead to turning over possession.

For me, the biggest problem with this team is the manager. As good as the defense has been, this is the most lackluster I can ever remember a USA attack looking. Too often the team is content to hope to just nick that one goal and hold on. I guess when you have a 423 minute shutout streak, that seems like a sound strategy, but I can't see that lasting against the Germans. This team will need to attack to get to the final. The China match was at least encouraging in that it seemed attacking was once again part of the arsenal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2015, 10:14:28 PM
Heading down to Chile later this week for the Copa championship.  Was really hoping Peru would pull it off tonight and I could cheer for my former home.  Oh well, having Chile in the final is going to be insane with the crowd down there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 29, 2015, 10:30:06 PM
http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/2507038/aron-johannsson-eyes-eventual-mls-move
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 30, 2015, 07:58:56 PM
US women caught a break when Sasic missed the PK, but then they finished strong.   Great clincher in the final minutes.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 30, 2015, 08:01:23 PM
Saw about 2 minutes of the first half (the last 2) and the last 20 minutes starting after Lloyd's goal. Was fortunate enough to be on a call when Germany got the PK and the patient had it on in the house, so we watched that bit with them.

But all in all, I can't evaluate the performance at all, didn't see near enough. But I'll take a 2-0 win and Final appearance any time  8-)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 30, 2015, 08:36:02 PM
Also, definitely cheering for England tomorrow. I just think USA v England would make for a more entertaining final.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wildbillsb on June 30, 2015, 09:13:49 PM
Saw about 2 minutes of the first half (the last 2) and the last 20 minutes starting after Lloyd's goal. Was fortunate enough to be on a call when Germany got the PK and the patient had it on in the house, so we watched that bit with them.

But all in all, I can't evaluate the performance at all, didn't see near enough. But I'll take a 2-0 win and Final appearance any time  8-)

Where, oh where, has this team been the last three weeks?  Watched them in Winnipeg in a lackluster tie against SWE, but today....ZOWIE!!!  And against Germany, no less! 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on July 01, 2015, 06:24:20 AM
Where, oh where, has this team been the last three weeks?  Watched them in Winnipeg in a lackluster tie against SWE, but today....ZOWIE!!!  And against Germany, no less! 

Jill Ellis has been hiding them in a 4-4-2.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 01, 2015, 07:08:21 AM
Also, definitely cheering for England tomorrow. I just think USA v England would make for a more entertaining final.

USA vs England in Canada --- There's some kind of irony there!?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 01, 2015, 07:31:13 AM
Where, oh where, has this team been the last three weeks?  Watched them in Winnipeg in a lackluster tie against SWE, but today....ZOWIE!!!  And against Germany, no less! 

Yes, this was a great win.  Really should have scored a few more if Morgan was able to finish.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 01, 2015, 09:54:25 AM
US quite fortunate. They've had an easy run in which they've been able to underperform and caught the best team in the world coming off an emotionally exhausting victory over (what they perceived) their toughest competitor.

--Played the best 45 all Cup but due to Morgan's terrible finishing they got no reward in the first half.

--Germany regrouped during halftime and was clearly the better team in the second half culminating in the deserved penalty in the 60th.

--Shocking decision by the referee to allow Johnston to remain in the game. Clear as day red card for her.

--Surprising decision by the referee to allow Solo the blatant delay of game tactics prior to the Sasic penalty.

--Shocking decision by the referee to award the USA a penalty when fat guy on the couch could see Morgan was well outside the box.

--Neid was clueless what to do after the US penalty since her ace up the sleeve turned her ankle against France. US dodged that bullet.

--The second goal was an exquisite pass from Lloyd but the German defending was absolutely shocking in its incompetence.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 01, 2015, 09:57:16 AM
USWNT has not allowed a goal in 513 minutes of play.

Put another way, since allowing a goal in the 27th minute of the first game, women's opponents have not scored in eleven halves of play.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 01, 2015, 10:29:15 AM
USA vs England in Canada --- There's some kind of irony there!?

On the 4th of July I believe as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: warriorchick on July 01, 2015, 10:33:43 AM
US women caught a break when Sasic missed the PK, but then they finished strong.   Great clincher in the final minutes.   

Was anyone else disappointed after hearing her name pronounced, and then seeing how it was spelled?  It would have been the perfect German last name!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 01, 2015, 10:40:45 AM
US quite fortunate. They've had an easy run in which they've been able to underperform and caught the best team in the world coming off an emotionally exhausting victory over (what they perceived) their toughest competitor.

--Played the best 45 all Cup but due to Morgan's terrible finishing they got no reward in the first half.

--Germany regrouped during halftime and was clearly the better team in the second half culminating in the deserved penalty in the 60th.

--Shocking decision by the referee to allow Johnston to remain in the game. Clear as day red card for her.

--Surprising decision by the referee to allow Solo the blatant delay of game tactics prior to the Sasic penalty.

--Shocking decision by the referee to award the USA a penalty when fat guy on the couch could see Morgan was well outside the box.

--Neid was clueless what to do after the US penalty since her ace up the sleeve turned her ankle against France. US dodged that bullet.

--The second goal was an exquisite pass from Lloyd but the German defending was absolutely shocking in its incompetence.

Listen, referee decisions cut both ways.  A German defender should have gotten her second yellow in the 33rd minute of the game and been sent off....that would have changed the game as well.

The US played solid and had a break or two more than Germany....but more importantly took advantage of the breaks they got.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Coleman on July 01, 2015, 10:42:46 AM
On the 4th of July I believe as well.

Close, the game is on Sunday the 5th
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 01, 2015, 11:18:57 AM
Listen, referee decisions cut both ways.  A German defender should have gotten her second yellow in the 33rd minute of the game and been sent off....that would have changed the game as well.

The US played solid and had a break or two more than Germany....but more importantly took advantage of the breaks they got.

Seriously, did Golden have $$ on the German ML?  The German team got very frustrated and chippy to end the first half and received very little negative impact from the referee for it.  Johnston's foul in the box looked far worse in slow motion and in real time was as questionable as a red as Maier's blatant late tackle and knee to the back of Rapinoe when she was already on a yellow.

I disagree that Germany was clearly better all second half.  They absolutely outplayed the US the first 15-20, but then the US settled down and continued to torch Germany on the flanks.  O'Hara's goal was a brilliant pass for Lloyd and also a clever run from O'Hara on fresh legs and still was marked.

US was the better team most of the game, and was very much deserving of the win.  If Morgan hadn't been awful on the ball in the first half, it could have been over by halftime.  The German wingbacks had absolutely no answer for Rapinoe, Heath, and Lloyd's balls/runs up the middle.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 01, 2015, 11:27:20 AM
US quite fortunate. They've had an easy run in which they've been able to underperform and caught the best team in the world coming off an emotionally exhausting victory over (what they perceived) their toughest competitor.

--Played the best 45 all Cup but due to Morgan's terrible finishing they got no reward in the first half.

--Germany regrouped during halftime and was clearly the better team in the second half culminating in the deserved penalty in the 60th.

--Shocking decision by the referee to allow Johnston to remain in the game. Clear as day red card for her.

--Surprising decision by the referee to allow Solo the blatant delay of game tactics prior to the Sasic penalty.

--Shocking decision by the referee to award the USA a penalty when fat guy on the couch could see Morgan was well outside the box.

--Neid was clueless what to do after the US penalty since her ace up the sleeve turned her ankle against France. US dodged that bullet.

--The second goal was an exquisite pass from Lloyd but the German defending was absolutely shocking in its incompetence.

Disagree Germany was the better team in the second half.  The only real chance they had all game was the penalty.  I think the stats showed one shot on goal for the whole game?

Disagree it should have been a red on Johnston.  Her hand came back naturally when she went to play the ball.  Was it a penalty? Definitely, but not a red.

Agree on the Morgan penalty, not a penalty at all. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on July 01, 2015, 11:55:08 AM
US quite fortunate. They've had an easy run in which they've been able to underperform and caught the best team in the world coming off an emotionally exhausting victory over (what they perceived) their toughest competitor.

--Played the best 45 all Cup but due to Morgan's terrible finishing they got no reward in the first half.

--Germany regrouped during halftime and was clearly the better team in the second half culminating in the deserved penalty in the 60th.

--Shocking decision by the referee to allow Johnston to remain in the game. Clear as day red card for her.

--Surprising decision by the referee to allow Solo the blatant delay of game tactics prior to the Sasic penalty.

--Shocking decision by the referee to award the USA a penalty when fat guy on the couch could see Morgan was well outside the box.

--Neid was clueless what to do after the US penalty since her ace up the sleeve turned her ankle against France. US dodged that bullet.

--The second goal was an exquisite pass from Lloyd but the German defending was absolutely shocking in its incompetence.

--Germany was better for the first 15-20 of the second half. Overall, not so sure.
--Lack of a yellow for Solo was a little surprising, but what difference would it make?
--The US penalty should have been outside the box, but it was immediately outside, not well outside. I've been surprised a few times by questionable penalty/direct kick decisions this tournament. Feels like it skewing towards penalty when I'm used to seeing anything that's even questionable being placed outside the box.
--O'Hara got her leg in front of the defender's. It was poor defending, but not incompetent, much less absolutely shockingly incompetent.

You seem hellbent on discrediting the US performance. How come?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: warriorchick on July 01, 2015, 01:04:33 PM

You seem hellbent on discrediting the US performance. How come?

Maybe he can't stand the thought of the US Women's team being way better than the Men's.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 01, 2015, 01:45:53 PM
By the way, in case you've ever wondered how the US got so good at Women's soccer

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/why-is-the-u-s-so-good-at-womens-soccer/

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jsglow on July 01, 2015, 02:16:53 PM
US quite fortunate. They've had an easy run in which they've been able to underperform and caught the best team in the world coming off an emotionally exhausting victory over (what they perceived) their toughest competitor.

--Played the best 45 all Cup but due to Morgan's terrible finishing they got no reward in the first half.

--Germany regrouped during halftime and was clearly the better team in the second half culminating in the deserved penalty in the 60th.

--Shocking decision by the referee to allow Johnston to remain in the game. Clear as day red card for her.

--Surprising decision by the referee to allow Solo the blatant delay of game tactics prior to the Sasic penalty.

--Shocking decision by the referee to award the USA a penalty when fat guy on the couch could see Morgan was well outside the box.

--Neid was clueless what to do after the US penalty since her ace up the sleeve turned her ankle against France. US dodged that bullet.

--The second goal was an exquisite pass from Lloyd but the German defending was absolutely shocking in its incompetence.

Others have gone point by point.  I'll just say simply that the better team won last night.  Oh, and if one happens to miss their country's first PK in Cup history..... It was curtains from that moment on.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 01, 2015, 04:33:56 PM
Listen, referee decisions cut both ways.  A German defender should have gotten her second yellow in the 33rd minute of the game and been sent off....that would have changed the game as well.

The US played solid and had a break or two more than Germany....but more importantly took advantage of the breaks they got.

Certainly do go both ways. Both countries lucky not to finish with only 10 players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 01, 2015, 05:05:17 PM
--Germany was better for the first 15-20 of the second half. Overall, not so sure.
--Lack of a yellow for Solo was a little surprising, but what difference would it make?
--The US penalty should have been outside the box, but it was immediately outside, not well outside. I've been surprised a few times by questionable penalty/direct kick decisions this tournament. Feels like it skewing towards penalty when I'm used to seeing anything that's even questionable being placed outside the box.
--O'Hara got her leg in front of the defender's. It was poor defending, but not incompetent, much less absolutely shockingly incompetent.

You seem hellbent on discrediting the US performance. How come?

--I wrote that Germany was better in the second half culminating in the penalty, meaning, they were the better side up until their penalty.

--The lack of yellow on Solo just showed that in the big moments the official wasn't locked in. Big moment in first when Germany should be down a player. Big moment in second when the US should be down a player. Official got them all wrong. I pointed out Johnston because she was last defender and denied a clear opportunity. On each, it's an automatic red. Combined, it's a no brainer red.

--When I write "well outside" it means that everyone associated with the game -- fans, media, players -- can see that the contact wasn't near the line nor anywhere near being inside the box. If you watch the game enough, we all know when a player is fouled in the box as opposed to outside it. I didn't even shrug since I knew it'd be a free kick too close to the goal to have an impact. The point to the spot was shocking. Even some US players were stunned.

--The incompetent defending didn't come from O'Hara's mark. The incompetent defending came from both the right sided German defenders stepping up and leaving Lloyd alone in the box to receive a routine soft entry pass and acres of space to place the pass. At that point they likely knew their Cup was over but to concede a goal with such a mental error, especially being a German, was shockingly incompetent.

--Finally, "hellbent" is well off the mark when this.....Played the best 45 all Cup but due to Morgan's terrible finishing they got no reward in the first half......was the first point I wrote in my original thoughts.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 01, 2015, 07:18:05 PM
Penalties given to all four semifinalists in one World Cup? That has to be unprecedented. Though both penalties in the Japan/England game were shockingly poor decisions by the referee.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 01, 2015, 07:53:42 PM
Wow, so England didn't want to wait for the near inevitable heartbreak of losing on penalties, easier to deal with the heartbreak of the 93rd minute own goal?

Too bad, England in the final would have been fun. Japan, less so.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 01, 2015, 08:02:29 PM
I don't know where Golden Avalanche is from, or exactly where his allegiances lie, but I can tell you it isn't with the US when it comes to soccer (at least). I can't remember if it was World cup talk or gold cup or qualifying, but he was TEARING the USMNT to shreds and outwardly said he doesn't cheer for the US but another country (I think south american).

So, no surprise how he's portraying the US women.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 01, 2015, 11:11:53 PM
I don't know where Golden Avalanche is from, or exactly where his allegiances lie, but I can tell you it isn't with the US when it comes to soccer (at least). I can't remember if it was World cup talk or gold cup or qualifying, but he was TEARING the USMNT to shreds and outwardly said he doesn't cheer for the US but another country (I think south american).

So, no surprise how he's portraying the US women.

Sure you weren't thinking about me? Or maybe combining the two? Ive never torn the US teams apart but I don't actively cheer for them. Have 3 Colombian jerseys and another 2 t-shirts in my closet.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 01, 2015, 11:36:26 PM
That is a brutal way to lose.   I hope that young woman is able to recover.    I have to hope the Brits are kinder to her than the Colombians were after the 1994 World Cup. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 02, 2015, 06:12:48 AM
That is a brutal way to lose.   I hope that young woman is able to recover.    I have to hope the Brits are kinder to her than the Colombians were after the 1994 World Cup. 

I'm confident she'll be treated better than Andres Escobar.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 02, 2015, 11:04:53 AM
Sure you weren't thinking about me? Or maybe combining the two? Ive never torn the US teams apart but I don't actively cheer for them. Have 3 Colombian jerseys and another 2 t-shirts in my closet.

Perhaps. I'd have to go back and look at post history. If so, my apologies.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jsglow on July 02, 2015, 11:45:17 AM
That is a brutal way to lose.   I hope that young woman is able to recover.    I have to hope the Brits are kinder to her than the Colombians were after the 1994 World Cup. 

Very tough to see it end that way.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 02, 2015, 05:43:47 PM
Michael Bradley was named captain of the USA Men's team today. Could easily see him keeping the armband 5 years.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 03, 2015, 08:51:53 AM
Perhaps. I'd have to go back and look at post history. If so, my apologies.

How's that post history research coming along?

You wrote something wildly inaccurate about me because you can't remember who writes what in this forum (or, looking at the time code, you post when you're drunk). That seems stupid and you should do better. Next time, there's no need for the "if so, my apologies", just be a smarter person and do the research first.

It is fascinating to know that even with my travels to Germany for the World Cup in 2006 and with my travels to South Africa for the World Cup in 2010 and with my travels around the States for various World Cup Qualifiers and with my travels around the States for various Gold Cup matches I can be portrayed as anti-American in my soccer interests. Thanks for the reality check, jesmu84!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on July 03, 2015, 10:36:21 AM
That is a brutal way to lose.   I hope that young woman is able to recover.    I have to hope the Brits are kinder to her than the Colombians were after the 1994 World Cup. 

  Really rooting for the Lionesses as have spent the last two weeks watching BBC and following their progress and enjoying the interviews.
Losing by an own goal is worse than by shootout, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 04, 2015, 05:25:13 AM
USA men's team looked bad on defense against Guatemala.   Guatemala missed a couple of point blank open looks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 04, 2015, 08:13:49 AM
USA men's team looked bad on defense against Guatemala.   Guatemala missed a couple of point blank open looks.

Agreed. But I would argue that most of those chances were after Gonzalez, Johnson, and Brooks were subbed out.

Also think subbing mix out had a bit to do with it as he is strong on the ball.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 04, 2015, 10:43:35 AM
Guzan also wasn't as sure handed as you'd like to see. Part of that was Guatemala players piling into him, but as a keeper you need to fight through that and still come up with the ball.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 05, 2015, 07:45:34 AM
All four semi-finalist nations received a dubious penalty. That trend continued into last night with England's victorious dubious penalty award during extra time in the third-place match.

Unfortunately, going like this, the match tonight won't be decided by the players. Regardless of how stingy both the US and Japanese defense has been one team (perhaps both to even things out) will be awarded a dubious decision as a direct result of the substandard officiating. Remains to be seen if that will be the only criterion for a World Champion to be crowned.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 05, 2015, 09:27:24 AM
All four semi-finalist nations received a dubious penalty. That trend continued into last night with England's victorious dubious penalty award during extra time in the third-place match.

Unfortunately, going like this, the match tonight won't be decided by the players. Regardless of how stingy both the US and Japanese defense has been one team (perhaps both to even things out) will be awarded a dubious decision as a direct result of the substandard officiating. Remains to be seen if that will be the only criterion for a World Champion to be crowned.

I'll be cheering for the women tonight (though unfortunately watching on DVR), and would celebrate any win (even if it's under questionable circumstances), but this WWC has really underscored how much this is a second-rate competition in FIFA's eyes.

Artificial turf, poor refereeing, the FIFA president not attending the final (though that may be more to fear of arrest), all things that show FIFA doesn't have a huge vestment in this.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 05, 2015, 05:01:58 PM
I'll be cheering for the women tonight (though unfortunately watching on DVR), and would celebrate any win (even if it's under questionable circumstances), but this WWC has really underscored how much this is a second-rate competition in FIFA's eyes.

Artificial turf, poor refereeing, the FIFA president not attending the final (though that may be more to fear of arrest), all things that show FIFA doesn't have a huge vestment in this.

Add in the rigging of the draw to allow Canada an easier path whilst at the same time ensuring France/Germany met well before the Final. It also allowed the US to avoid a QF with either of those teams, ensuring their path to the late rounds, which FIFA needed as the US is the only nation that consistently draws a large audience.

In the end, FIFA wins since they get an attractive Final storyline with the US-Japan revenge rematch.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 05, 2015, 07:47:53 PM
Well, the only thing dubious was Japan's defending in the first fifteen. Carli Lloyd with a great hat trick. That third goal was absolutely world class. There may have been complaints about the team and Ellis (I had plenty myself) but I do believe the best team is winning this tournament. The defense was suffocating right yup until they had a 4-0 lead in the final.

Three stars deserved.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 06, 2015, 09:01:36 AM
Rare to see a nation play so free and loose in the late rounds. Germany did it to an amazing level last year against Brasil and the US women were right on the heels of that performance with their first 16 minutes last night.

I thought it was interesting that everyone assumed the US would use their physicality to an advantage on set pieces and bomb it in the air but they reversed the psychology on that and Japan was caught well off guard by the worm burning corner and free kick that led to the first two goals. Once those went in, the Japanese keeper was rattled to the point of being useless the rest of the match.

Holiday's goal was just as technically brilliant as Lloyd's third. And Brian was outstanding last night and against Germany but that will be overshadowed by Lloyd's emergence. Brian is the future.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: warriorchick on July 06, 2015, 09:23:39 AM
That third goal was absolutely world class.

It could be said that everyone's performance last night on the U.S. team was world class....seeing as it was a winning effort in the World Cup finals and all.   ;)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 06, 2015, 09:34:56 AM
This team's fortunes changed when Morgan Brian was inserted into the starting lineup against China. It freed up Lloyd to do her thing in a more advanced role.

Very, very proud of this team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 06, 2015, 09:58:33 AM
Rare to see a nation play so free and loose in the late rounds. Germany did it to an amazing level last year against Brasil and the US women were right on the heels of that performance with their first 16 minutes last night.

I thought it was interesting that everyone assumed the US would use their physicality to an advantage on set pieces and bomb it in the air but they reversed the psychology on that and Japan was caught well off guard by the worm burning corner and free kick that led to the first two goals. Once those went in, the Japanese keeper was rattled to the point of being useless the rest of the match.

Holiday's goal was just as technically brilliant as Lloyd's third. And Brian was outstanding last night and against Germany but that will be overshadowed by Lloyd's emergence. Brian is the future.

The US definitely seemed to employ that strategy early in the WC to little effect. Wambach is an all-time great, but the long-ball, power it through approach just wasn't working. It's a credit to Ellis that she so completely shifted strategy midstream and it really paid off on those first two goals.

Dellacamera said it very well, Japan just wasn't ready for the US. They weren't ready for the speed or the style, which is somewhat surprising as it was similar to how they tried to play against China. Honestly, last night's effort reminded me a ton of the China game, with the difference being that last night they had better finishing, especially from Lloyd.

After the first two matches, Carli just didn't seem to have it. Against Sweden especially. The way she raised her game in the knockouts was stunning.

A buddy of mine said last night that he feels Lloyd is the best pure ball-striker in the world, men or women. She may not have the power of the men, but when it comes to getting just the right touch, she's fantastic. I could watch that 50-yard strike over and over and still not fail to be amazed. Every aspect of it was flawless. The first touch to settle, nutmegging her defender while making an excellent turn, then having the temerity to keep her eyes up and catch the keeper off her line, and to blast that from such range with such stunning accuracy. It was reminiscent of David Beckham's famous goal against Wimbledon, only Lloyd's was much better because she was being challenged and didn't have near the time to settle that Beckham did.

That may have been the best long range strike I've ever seen that didn't happen in a video game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 06, 2015, 12:21:03 PM
Rare to see a nation play so free and loose in the late rounds. Germany did it to an amazing level last year against Brasil and the US women were right on the heels of that performance with their first 16 minutes last night.

I thought it was interesting that everyone assumed the US would use their physicality to an advantage on set pieces and bomb it in the air but they reversed the psychology on that and Japan was caught well off guard by the worm burning corner and free kick that led to the first two goals. Once those went in, the Japanese keeper was rattled to the point of being useless the rest of the match.

Holiday's goal was just as technically brilliant as Lloyd's third. And Brian was outstanding last night and against Germany but that will be overshadowed by Lloyd's emergence. Brian is the future.

Regarding those first 16 minutes, not only were the US women controlling everything, they finished nearly every opportunity they had (save for Lloyd's header that just missed wide).  Often times teams may have several opportunities in the first few minutes to just miss.

The third goal, was an amazing strike by Holiday, but IMO was also lazy defense by the Japanese.  The cross was headed sky high and not one defender seemed to attempt to track back to it to contest.

In a slightly unrelated note, the Japanese team were very refreshing to watch.  Save for one player (Maya??? #10???) they didn't complain to the ref about calls made/not made, they were routinely great sports to the US women, helping them up, etc.  They were a very classy team and great examples for young ones watching the game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 06, 2015, 01:02:06 PM
The third goal, was an amazing strike by Holiday, but IMO was also lazy defense by the Japanese.  The cross was headed sky high and not one defender seemed to attempt to track back to it to contest.

It looked like the defender who initially headed the ball had no idea where it went.  One other defender was ball watching and Holiday's marker was just torched cause Holiday made an amazing read on the ball and was full sprint past her and she just couldn't keep up.

I think that first goal was my favorite, other than the obviously incredible mid field strike, because Lloyd's run was absolutely incredible and came from FAR.  Just dazzling execution.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: warriorchick on July 06, 2015, 01:21:52 PM
I have to say that the championship trophy is a little underwhelming, especially on the heels of all the Stanley-Cup-parading they have done around here recently.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: StillAWarrior on July 06, 2015, 01:53:35 PM
I have to say that the championship trophy is a little underwhelming, especially on the heels of all the Stanley-Cup-parading they have done around here recently.

My 12-year old daughter's reaction:  "That's all they win?"  Sometimes it's hard to explain to a child of the "participation trophy generation" that it's the honor of winning and not the size of the trophy that matters.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 06, 2015, 01:55:42 PM
It is good that your daughter is learning early that size isn't everything.       

Unbelievable first 20 minutes.   Every bounce went USA's way.    I tip my hat to Japan for pulling it together and competing for the final 70 minutes.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: warriorchick on July 06, 2015, 01:55:55 PM
My 12-year old daughter's reaction:  "That's all they win?"  Sometimes it's hard to explain to a child of the "participation trophy generation" that it's the honor of winning and not the size of the trophy that matters.

Of course it's hard to explain, because it's WRONG!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 06, 2015, 02:07:54 PM
It looked like the defender who initially headed the ball had no idea where it went.  One other defender was ball watching and Holiday's marker was just torched cause Holiday made an amazing read on the ball and was full sprint past her and she just couldn't keep up.

I think that first goal was my favorite, other than the obviously incredible mid field strike, because Lloyd's run was absolutely incredible and came from FAR.  Just dazzling execution.

That first goal was a thing of beauty. Lloyd just streaked in from nowhere and got a perfect touch. All in all a great performance from her.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 06, 2015, 02:08:49 PM
Perfectly timed.    Started her run from so far away that she really couldn't be marked. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 06, 2015, 02:42:46 PM
It looked like the defender who initially headed the ball had no idea where it went.  One other defender was ball watching and Holiday's marker was just torched cause Holiday made an amazing read on the ball and was full sprint past her and she just couldn't keep up.

After reading this, I remembered that was in the sunny end, so I wonder if several of the Japanese defenders had trouble finding the ball with the weird sun and shadows that was going on in that end.

They noted that the US won the toss and elected to defend the shady side.  5/7 total goals from the game were scored on the sunny end.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Coleman on July 06, 2015, 02:52:35 PM
After reading this, I remembered that was in the sunny end, so I wonder if several of the Japanese defenders had trouble finding the ball with the weird sun and shadows that was going on in that end.

They noted that the US won the toss and elected to defend the shady side.  5/7 total goals from the game were scored on the sunny end.

Wouldn't it actually have been 6 of 7 goals (all except USA's 2nd half goal)?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 06, 2015, 03:10:29 PM
Wouldn't it actually have been 6 of 7 goals (all except USA's 2nd half goal)?

Japan also had a first half goal, so 5/7. Was 4-1 at halftime.

But I remember when they initially announced the USA would start defending in the shade, I was glad. Figure the sun will go down as the game goes on and the sun will be less of a factor in the second half. Not that it decided the game (Carli Lloyd did) but it certainly didn't hurt, especially on the volley and the long ball goal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 06, 2015, 04:34:38 PM
The third goal, was an amazing strike by Holiday, but IMO was also lazy defense by the Japanese.  The cross was headed sky high and not one defender seemed to attempt to track back to it to contest.

The defender who messed up that headed clearance was the same defender assigned to mark Lloyd on a set piece. She was absolutely awful and rightly subbed off immediately.

She deserved a '0' but the keeper is right next to her on that one. She lost her mind and lallygagged out to the 18 yard line when the ball was at midfield only to have Lloyd dispossess, spot the keeper staring at the sun, and chip her from 50 yards. Keeper also at fault for Heath's goal. Made such a poor attempt at incoming corner it allowed Brian plenty of time to put it on a plate to Heath.

Japan never had a chance but they also didn't need to leave their smart defending on the bus.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on July 07, 2015, 09:39:29 AM
Wonderful tournament for our women but wish no games were played on artificial turf and that the final would have been played at a time/venue where the sun angle was as important as the play of the teams.  Boo, Canada and FIFA for those choices.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on July 07, 2015, 11:04:41 AM
Also, thought we heard a little too much from DiCicco about "his" 99er's during the final.  Surprised that we haven't heard from him in any post game commentary after the Japan win.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 07, 2015, 11:42:04 PM
USA opened their Gold Cup defense with a lackluster and wholly undeserved win against Honduras tonight. Dempsey scored twice (both resulting from set pieces against the run of play).

Honduras controlled most of the game. They won possession with 51%, deceptively low because the USA spent much of the second sitting on the ball bleeding clock. Honduras outshot us 16-6, with Andy Najar coming close on a few occasions. Also dominated corners 9-5.

Quite a few American players were poor. Timmy Chandler was ran all over the pitch by Najar and had a very forgettable game. Ventura Alvarado was uninspiring, losing his mark on the Honduran goal and making a few lackluster clearances. Kyle Beckerman looked old and out of sync. And Gyasi Zardes is definitely miscast as a winger. He is good with the close touch, but has neither the pace nor the crossing to be effective out wide.

I was stunned by how poor the USA looked. Spent much of the first half trying to play long ball against a team packing 9 behind the ball. When they did attack they couldn't string together meaningful possession. And numerous times Yedlin would make a wide run, opening space on the right wing, only for the passer too play the ball into the middle of the pitch (and the defense).

In my mind, a terrible performance. If they want to lift the Cup, they need to be much better than this.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 08, 2015, 07:48:58 AM
USA opened their Gold Cup defense with a lackluster and wholly undeserved win against Honduras tonight. Dempsey scored twice (both resulting from set pieces against the run of play).

Honduras controlled most of the game. They won possession with 51%, deceptively low because the USA spent much of the second sitting on the ball bleeding clock. Honduras outshot us 16-6, with Andy Najar coming close on a few occasions. Also dominated corners 9-5.

Quite a few American players were poor. Timmy Chandler was ran all over the pitch by Najar and had a very forgettable game. Ventura Alvarado was uninspiring, losing his mark on the Honduran goal and making a few lackluster clearances. Kyle Beckerman looked old and out of sync. And Gyasi Zardes is definitely miscast as a winger. He is good with the close touch, but has neither the pace nor the crossing to be effective out wide.

I was stunned by how poor the USA looked. Spent much of the first half trying to play long ball against a team packing 9 behind the ball. When they did attack they couldn't string together meaningful possession. And numerous times Yedlin would make a wide run, opening space on the right wing, only for the passer too play the ball into the middle of the pitch (and the defense).

In my mind, a terrible performance. If they want to lift the Cup, they need to be much better than this.

Agreed, they did not look good.  But I'll take the 3 points.

I like Gyasi a lot, but I think he's much better (for the national team) coming off of the bench, would prefer Mix there to start the game instead.  Also think its time to more permanently pair Brooks with Omar Gonzalez.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 08, 2015, 07:52:05 AM
In my mind, a terrible performance. If they want to lift the Cup, they need to be much better than this.

True, but they always start the Gold Cup like crap.

I did have a thought while watching last night... in the past, the US was built more for the rough, ugly Central American game than they are now. It seems like this group is more comfortable playing European opposition.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 08, 2015, 08:51:41 AM
USA opened their Gold Cup defense with a lackluster and wholly undeserved win against Honduras tonight. Dempsey scored twice (both resulting from set pieces against the run of play).

Honduras controlled most of the game. They won possession with 51%, deceptively low because the USA spent much of the second sitting on the ball bleeding clock. Honduras outshot us 16-6, with Andy Najar coming close on a few occasions. Also dominated corners 9-5.

Possession is uncorrelated with results. It is mostly an indicator of style.

Despite losing on overall shots, the US put 83% of their shots on target, as opposed to 33% for Honduras. And they finished 40% of their shots, compared to 33% for Honduras. 

(I've been playing around with soccer analytics lately)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 08, 2015, 08:58:09 AM
Possession is uncorrelated with results. It is mostly an indicator of style.

Despite losing on overall shots, the US put 83% of their shots on target, as opposed to 33% for Honduras. And they finished 40% of their shots, compared to 33% for Honduras. 

(I've been playing around with soccer analytics lately)

I've never understood why people rely so much on the possession number and shot number as an indicator of who should win. As you write, it's uncorrelated with results and you'd think people would have picked up on this watching Mourinho win and Pep lose.

For fear of being branded anti-American as I was last week with the US Women's team I'll keep my comments regarding last night short: the US looked complacent from the start.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 08, 2015, 09:01:09 AM
Let's be honest here.  There are only two teams that the US really needs to look out for and will likely face neither until the semifinal. I wouldn't say Honduras deserved to win, but the US should have looked better than they did.  But, they are going to win this group - a win against Haiti practically wraps it up.  They have two games to smooth things out, and will likely face a crappy team like El Salvador or Trinidad in the quarters before facing Costa Rica in the semis.  I'm sure they will look a lot better by then.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Coleman on July 08, 2015, 09:15:36 AM
Disclaimer...I don't pay that much attention to soccer...but why wasn't Tim Howard in net last night?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 08, 2015, 09:19:03 AM
Disclaimer...I don't pay that much attention to soccer...but why wasn't Tim Howard in net last night?


Taking the year off from the international team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on July 08, 2015, 09:19:22 AM
Disclaimer...I don't pay that much attention to soccer...but why wasn't Tim Howard in net last night?

He is taking a year off from the National Team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 08, 2015, 09:19:49 AM
Possession is uncorrelated with results. It is mostly an indicator of style.

Despite losing on overall shots, the US put 83% of their shots on target, as opposed to 33% for Honduras. And they finished 40% of their shots, compared to 33% for Honduras. 

(I've been playing around with soccer analytics lately)

Meaningful possession I'd have to imagine is, however. Those numbers weren't just Honduras sitting back, it was then coming forward and creating chances in our half. They flat out took the game to us in the opening 30, yet somehow we had a 1-0 lead. I agree of the possession is holding the ball for the sake of holding it. That wasn't what we saw last night, though.

As far as Howard, he's taking a year away from the national team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 08, 2015, 09:28:46 AM
I think it was a middling performance, but I do think there were things to like, just not quite as many as not to like

Like
-Didn't think it would but Yedlin at right wing was very positive, made a lot of great runs and had a lot of great pace.  You could tell he's a converted back though because he didn't have quite the killer instinct in the area you'd want but that will come with time.
-Gyasi will be a very good player and I thought he tracked back really well defensively.  I wonder if he isn't an eventual replacement for Beckerman and let Mix play the left side winger
-Bradley and Dempsey continue to be a great combination going forward.
-Brooks looks like he is there to stay as center back and I think that's great
-Fabian Johnson should be the starting LB for quite a while

Didn't Like
-They have got to find someone to pair with Dempsey up front.  Altidore is just not the answer and I saw that as someone who was a huge fan. Wondo definitely isn't the answer either.
-Chandler is just not the RB of choice.  If Yedlin continues to be the answer at right wing, we're going to have to figure something else out
-Guzan has got to get his back line organized, far too many mistakes from them(I know its a new center back pairing but thats not an excuse).  Honduras had all(or mostly all) of their opportunities because of US mistakes
-Beckerman, and I'm a fan, is just not going to get it done as DCM, need to find a different answer there
-The whole team looked 2 steps behind on the 50/50 balls.  IMHO, we should never get out hustled or out paced.  Possession isn't a big deal for me but losing 50/50 balls drives me nuts.

We'll see how the next couple of games go
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 08, 2015, 09:34:28 AM
Didn't Like
-They have got to find someone to pair with Dempsey up front.  Altidore is just not the answer and I saw that as someone who was a huge fan. Wondo definitely isn't the answer either.

Aron Johannsson?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 08, 2015, 09:38:48 AM
The lead official allowing Honduras to get away with their classic brutal, hack a leg defensive style allowed a couple of their dangerous runs.  I forgot how much I disliked that national team.  They have some quality individual talent, but I hate watching them constantly chop other teams down.  Multiple times near center field a US player was clearly fouled, the ref swallowed his whistle and they sprinted down the other way.  Hell,  Najar's strong run and dangerous shot in the first was capped off by him two-handed shoving Yedlin into the ground.

Fabian Johnson is fantastic.  He was in the WC, and he's continued.  His overlapping runs are fantastic and he's confident with the ball.  Really liked Brooks as well.

Chandler was active...and then you realized its cause he was out of position and spraying balls all over the place.

Altidore was...Altidore.  I mean, I'm glad it turned out favorably cause Deuce and his head were well positioned, but Altidore's shot that caused the rebound was pretty damn pedestrian.

Also wondering why we don't see Johansson more...

But 3 pts is 3 pts
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 08, 2015, 09:40:46 AM
Aron Johannsson?

That is my hope right now....despite his torrid start, I don't think its Jordan Morris :)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 08, 2015, 09:41:06 AM
I would like Zardes up top with Clint. The guy just isn't a winger. His best moves are the close possession moves, the kind that get you past the last man and into position to score. He was such a non factor going forward until the late chance he created when he drove into the box and laid off a cut back pass. It was the same type of play that he created a goal against Guatemala with. It's also a play that is far more effective for a striker who is playing centrally in the box than a wing player. Zardes makes us worse on the wing (would rather Bedoya) and can't play to his own strengths out there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 08, 2015, 11:56:07 AM
I think it was a middling performance, but I do think there were things to like, just not quite as many as not to like

Like
-Didn't think it would but Yedlin at right wing was very positive, made a lot of great runs and had a lot of great pace.  You could tell he's a converted back though because he didn't have quite the killer instinct in the area you'd want but that will come with time.
-Gyasi will be a very good player and I thought he tracked back really well defensively.  I wonder if he isn't an eventual replacement for Beckerman and let Mix play the left side winger
-Bradley and Dempsey continue to be a great combination going forward.
-Brooks looks like he is there to stay as center back and I think that's great
-Fabian Johnson should be the starting LB for quite a while

Didn't Like
-They have got to find someone to pair with Dempsey up front.  Altidore is just not the answer and I saw that as someone who was a huge fan. Wondo definitely isn't the answer either.
-Chandler is just not the RB of choice.  If Yedlin continues to be the answer at right wing, we're going to have to figure something else out
-Guzan has got to get his back line organized, far too many mistakes from them(I know its a new center back pairing but thats not an excuse).  Honduras had all(or mostly all) of their opportunities because of US mistakes
-Beckerman, and I'm a fan, is just not going to get it done as DCM, need to find a different answer there
-The whole team looked 2 steps behind on the 50/50 balls.  IMHO, we should never get out hustled or out paced.  Possession isn't a big deal for me but losing 50/50 balls drives me nuts.

We'll see how the next couple of games go

Beckerman is one of the best technical players in the US pool. If not for age, he'd be in a top European league.

Gyasi is a forward, not a winger or CM.

The problem with Fabian is that he's our best option at LB, RB and LM. And he probably is most effective at LM, personally. So lots to think about there.

Yedlin has been playing wing over seas, so hoping that helps his development.

I have no clue why aron doesn't play more.

It amazes me how we can play with the likes of Italy, Netherlands, Germany and then struggle to put away Honduras.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 08, 2015, 12:22:15 PM
It amazes me how we can play with the likes of Italy, Netherlands, Germany and then struggle to put away Honduras.

Like I said earlier, I don't think this team is built for the cynical, cagey play that comes with CONCACAF. Some of those late, high challenges had them pulling out of tackles, like mu03eng mentioned.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 08, 2015, 01:03:44 PM
Here's my thoughts by position:

Goalkeeper: We're okay here. Howard is still good, and Guzan is a great deputy. Lots of young names coming through to watch.

Right back: Chandler is terrible. The problem is we need the best option (Johnson) on the left where our other options are even worse, and Yedlin is clearly being groomed for a more offensive role. Honestly, I'd rather see them just keep Yedlin back. Chandler is a poor defender and not strong enough. Couldn't stay with Najar to save his life. Evans is also better. Wouldn't mind Cameron in that role either, though he's aging.

Center backs: Brooks looks like the bedrock of our defense for the next decade. After him, lots of questions. Alvarado is making a lot of mistakes. Maybe that will improve with time. Ream and Gonzalez also have issues. Could use Besler back in there. Probably my first choice to pair with Brooks right now. Either that or start blooding some young kids.

Left back: Johnson is clearly first choice. Beasley is ancient, Garza is okay but not great, Shea is a work in progress. One of the few positions that seems locked down.

Defensive mids: Where is Danny Williams? He is our best defensive mid. Better than Beckerman, who has declined massively in the past 12 months. Well, actually this should be Bradley's position, but JK is set on him being the #10. Like to see more of Kitchen, Trapp, and Hyndmann to see if any are worth a ticket to Russia in 2018.

Right mid: So...Yedlin then Zusi, I guess. Yedlin is our best weapon currently being deployed on the wing. I'd like to see him at the back, but then who takes that spot? Zusi I've never really liked, though at least he tracks back well. Need to see more options there.

Central/Attacking mids: Bradley is miscast here. Diskerud is a better choice, yet more often he's playing in front of the defense. Who else could play here? Nguyen? Corona? JK never wants to give anyone else a chance.

Left mid: Zardes is terrible over there. Horribly misused. Bedoya should start. Johnson is next best. Need to see more options.

Forwards: Personally, I think Dempsey and Zardes should start. Altidore just doesn't impress. He has a couple good moments per game but that's it. He's not a constant threat. Johannsson deserves a spot on the bench as well with Altidore. Wondo I'm ready to see the back of. With youngsters like Green, Wood, Morris, and Rubin, I'd rather see someone that had some pace for the late sub than a guy who's just kind of there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 08, 2015, 02:44:07 PM
Defensive mids: Where is Danny Williams? He is our best defensive mid. Better than Beckerman, who has declined massively in the past 12 months. Well, actually this should be Bradley's position, but JK is set on him being the #10. Like to see more of Kitchen, Trapp, and Hyndmann to see if any are worth a ticket to Russia in 2018.

Right mid: So...Yedlin then Zusi, I guess. Yedlin is our best weapon currently being deployed on the wing. I'd like to see him at the back, but then who takes that spot? Zusi I've never really liked, though at least he tracks back well. Need to see more options there.

Central/Attacking mids: Bradley is miscast here. Diskerud is a better choice, yet more often he's playing in front of the defense. Who else could play here? Nguyen? Corona? JK never wants to give anyone else a chance.

Left mid: Zardes is terrible over there. Horribly misused. Bedoya should start. Johnson is next best. Need to see more options.

You mention Mix as an attacking mid here, but I think he has a bit more flexibility than just this role.  See the Guatemala game for example.  He's been playing alot on the right of the diamond at NYCFC and will continue to see minutes there as the season rolls on.  He may also be an option at LM, though haven't seen him play much out there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 08, 2015, 04:56:14 PM
Rebuttle:

Here's my thoughts by position:

Goalkeeper: We're okay here. Howard is still good, and Guzan is a great deputy. Lots of young names coming through to watch.

Agree

Right back: Chandler is terrible. The problem is we need the best option (Johnson) on the left where our other options are even worse, and Yedlin is clearly being groomed for a more offensive role. Honestly, I'd rather see them just keep Yedlin back. Chandler is a poor defender and not strong enough. Couldn't stay with Najar to save his life. Evans is also better. Wouldn't mind Cameron in that role either, though he's aging.

I think Yedlin is best used as a winger. He'll play there in Europe, which I think will help develop those skills more. I'm not sure who will play RB though for 2018. Chandler is the most likely. The other option is to play Fabian here as he and Yedlin would make a dynamic right side with both able to play back and attack.

Center backs: Brooks looks like the bedrock of our defense for the next decade. After him, lots of questions. Alvarado is making a lot of mistakes. Maybe that will improve with time. Ream and Gonzalez also have issues. Could use Besler back in there. Probably my first choice to pair with Brooks right now. Either that or start blooding some young kids.

I think there's a lot of youth here to be explored before 2018. As of now, Gonzalez, Brooks, Besler are the top 3. Gonzalez seems to still be recovering a bit from injury. Alvardo is a distant 4.

Left back: Johnson is clearly first choice. Beasley is ancient, Garza is okay but not great, Shea is a work in progress. One of the few positions that seems locked down.

I prefer Fabian at RB. So, who at Left? Good question. Garza seems to be #1 with FJ on the right. Shea is a work in progress, but it seems like Orlando has given up on him here. Youth or Garza for 2018.

Note: I actually prefer the US in a 4-3-3 for 2018. But i'll address your formation. If a 4-3-3, the middle 3 would be Mix - Bradley - Yedlin, the front 3 would be some combo of Gyasi/Wood/Morris/Bedoya/Dempsey/Altidore/Aron/Green

Defensive mids: Where is Danny Williams? He is our best defensive mid. Better than Beckerman, who has declined massively in the past 12 months. Well, actually this should be Bradley's position, but JK is set on him being the #10. Like to see more of Kitchen, Trapp, and Hyndmann to see if any are worth a ticket to Russia in 2018.

Danny Williams would be my pick here. Slowly work in Trapp or Hyndmann. Beckerman has seen better days and I think Kitchen has maxed out.

Right mid: So...Yedlin then Zusi, I guess. Yedlin is our best weapon currently being deployed on the wing. I'd like to see him at the back, but then who takes that spot? Zusi I've never really liked, though at least he tracks back well. Need to see more options there.

Yedlin here. Could also use Green

Central/Attacking mids: Bradley is miscast here. Diskerud is a better choice, yet more often he's playing in front of the defense. Who else could play here? Nguyen? Corona? JK never wants to give anyone else a chance.

Bradley here. But not pushed up, he plays more even with the outside mids.

Left mid: Zardes is terrible over there. Horribly misused. Bedoya should start. Johnson is next best. Need to see more options.

Bedoya here. Could also use Green

Forwards: Personally, I think Dempsey and Zardes should start. Altidore just doesn't impress. He has a couple good moments per game but that's it. He's not a constant threat. Johannsson deserves a spot on the bench as well with Altidore. Wondo I'm ready to see the back of. With youngsters like Green, Wood, Morris, and Rubin, I'd rather see someone that had some pace for the late sub than a guy who's just kind of there.

Some combo of Dempsey, Zardes, Aron, Wood, Morris, Rubin, Altidore. If looking at 2018, go less with Dempsey.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2015, 09:30:12 PM
Beckerman is one of the best technical players in the US pool. If not for age, he'd be in a top European league.

Gyasi is a forward, not a winger or CM.

The problem with Fabian is that he's our best option at LB, RB and LM. And he probably is most effective at LM, personally. So lots to think about there.

Yedlin has been playing wing over seas, so hoping that helps his development.

I have no clue why aron doesn't play more.

It amazes me how we can play with the likes of Italy, Netherlands, Germany and then struggle to put away Honduras.

Those were friendlies, which in my mind is a huge difference.  Or another way to put it, we were up big for those games, but I doubt they were up big for us.  Versus Honduras, we played down while Honduras played up to the competition.  Role reversal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 09, 2015, 09:08:24 AM
Beckerman is one of the best technical players in the US pool. If not for age, he'd be in a top European league.

Gyasi is a forward, not a winger or CM.

The problem with Fabian is that he's our best option at LB, RB and LM. And he probably is most effective at LM, personally. So lots to think about there.

Yedlin has been playing wing over seas, so hoping that helps his development.

I have no clue why aron doesn't play more.

It amazes me how we can play with the likes of Italy, Netherlands, Germany and then struggle to put away Honduras.

Your post history research of my anti-Americanism has been awfully quiet. I was looking forward to it.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 09, 2015, 12:16:56 PM
Your post history research of my anti-Americanism has been awfully quiet. I was looking forward to it.


Considering chitown said it was him and you said it wasn't you, led me to decide I didn't need to search.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 09, 2015, 07:57:50 PM
Considering chitown said it was him and you said it wasn't you, led me to decide I didn't need to search.

Cool. I'll just wait until you forget again who writes what on this forum.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 09, 2015, 11:44:55 PM
Cool. I'll just wait until you forget again who writes what on this forum.

Meh. Probably won't have to wait too long. This isn't my singular focus in life.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 10, 2015, 09:16:29 AM
Meh. Probably won't have to wait too long. This isn't my singular focus in life.

That was clear from your dunce act last week. I hope you at least enjoy an adult beverage when you lurk on Scoop at 02.19 AM.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 10, 2015, 10:30:58 AM
That was clear from your dunce act last week. I hope you at least enjoy an adult beverage when you lurk on Scoop at 02.19 AM.

Not sure where you're getting that. My post in reference to you was at 8:02PM. My follow-up was at 11:04AM.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 10, 2015, 01:58:47 PM
Okay...back on topic ;D

Really hoping for an emphatic win tonight. The Haiti/Panama draw put us in great shape that if we win tonight we are guaranteed to go through in first or second. If we win and Honduras/Panama draw, we win the group. Haiti was brave against Panama, but they're clearly the whipping boy of the group. Need to lay some wood on them. Hoping for 4+ goals in a win.

Would like to see some changes from Jurgen, but I don't expect them. I'd either like to see Evans start for Chandler, or Yedlin slide back to RB and start Zusi on the wing. Also like to see Zardes either pushed inside (by Bedoya) or come off the bench. I have no illusions that Jozy won't start. Also like to see someone else for Beckerman, ideally Mix with Bradley playing a little deeper. But again, this is JK, so Bradley will still be the #10. Also wouldn't mind Alvarado sitting. Ream, Gonzalez, matters not, just give someone else a chance.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 10, 2015, 10:54:27 PM
Two poor performances and we still won the group. Go figure.

JK changed the entire backline and not surprisingly they weren't in sync. Put Zusi and Altidore on the wings and they produced little. I have no idea what the plan was but I sure hope it failed. The one goal was created, not surprisingly, when again miscast winger Gyasi Zardes cut inside to a central forward role and found Dempsey with a cut back.

Here's the formation I think makes sense:

Guzan
Evans --- Gonzalez --- Brooks --- Garza
Bradley
Yedlin --- Johnson
Diskerud
Dempsey --- Zardes

Our backline is a shambles regardless, so get our best attackers on the wings, put Bradley and Diskerud in natural positions, and let our best creator and scorer do their job in the box.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 13, 2015, 08:38:59 AM
My short anti-American thoughts:

 -- Haiti showed that team speed and desire is nearly all you need to win

 -- USMNT is clearly following the USWNT plan of being poor in the group only for the sake of fooling everyone and then gain momentum in the late rounds

 -- If the US was in Mexico's position last night and didn't put away a shorthanded opponent, there would be a communal conniption fit in the US Soccer punditry class
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 13, 2015, 11:21:41 AM
Two poor performances and we still won the group. Go figure.

JK changed the entire backline and not surprisingly they weren't in sync. Put Zusi and Altidore on the wings and they produced little. I have no idea what the plan was but I sure hope it failed. The one goal was created, not surprisingly, when again miscast winger Gyasi Zardes cut inside to a central forward role and found Dempsey with a cut back.

Here's the formation I think makes sense:

Guzan
Evans --- Gonzalez --- Brooks --- Garza
Bradley
Yedlin --- Johnson
Diskerud
Dempsey --- Zardes

Our backline is a shambles regardless, so get our best attackers on the wings, put Bradley and Diskerud in natural positions, and let our best creator and scorer do their job in the box.

Made the drive from NY out to Foxboro for the game.  Great crowd and was a ton of fun.  Was really hoping for us to score many goals, but I'll take 3 points.

I like your suggested formation here, though I think Bradley and Diskerud switch CAM and CDM.  Bradley has been playing well at the top of the diamond over the last couple of months and Diskerud can be a force defensively.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 13, 2015, 11:24:57 AM
-- USMNT is clearly following the USWNT plan of being poor in the group only for the sake of fooling everyone and then gain momentum in the late rounds

I think this comment was made as sort of tounge-in-cheek, but I do think this is worth realizing. 

These first two games were poor performances for the USMNT, but that doesn't mean this team can't flip the switch.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 13, 2015, 01:46:15 PM
I think this comment was made as sort of tounge-in-cheek, but I do think this is worth realizing. 

These first two games were poor performances for the USMNT, but that doesn't mean this team can't flip the switch.

I'm sincerely hoping that's the case. Honestly, the advantage we have is CONCACAF is pretty poor. As it stands, we are guaranteed a third place team from Group B or C, El Salvador or Guatemala most likely in the quarters. In the semis, likely Honduras or Jamaica. All of those are very winnable, and set up to only have to face one of Costa Rica or Mexico to win the tournament. We can sputter through this and still make the final without playing our best.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 13, 2015, 09:50:58 PM
1st half analysis: Puke
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 14, 2015, 08:42:33 AM
Two observations from the Panama game. 

1. I was sorely disappointed that the Van Halen song isn't their national anthem.

2. I don't have any more observations because I fell asleep about 15 minutes in.  That game was dull.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 14, 2015, 08:54:52 AM
The KC crowd rocked last night.  That was one hell of an environment.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ttheisen on July 14, 2015, 09:02:36 AM
The KC crowd rocked last night.  That was one hell of an environment.

Crowd showed well - rough game, enough to get out of that one without Zardes getting a massive head wound.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 14, 2015, 09:07:08 AM
First game of the GC I watched from start to finish.

Can we leave Wondo at home from now on?

Disappointed in the development of Timmy Chandler. I expected him to be more like Fabian.

Very good performance in short time from Aron.

Bedoya continues to show me why he should be in the top 11 for this team every game.

Beckerman has lost a LOT in since the WC.

Seems we began moving on from Besler and Gonzo early, perhaps? Better second half, but I don't trust JAB or Alvarado as full-time starters

Zardes could be special with further development. Same with Yedlin.

First half was awful. Totally disjointed. Second half much improved. Clint made a big difference.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 14, 2015, 09:16:49 AM
Brooks acquitted himself well in the second half after falling asleep on the Panama goal.  He was everywhere in the box in the second half, killing plenty of chances.  He'll be missed next game.

Love the combination of Dempsey and Zardes.  They really click and it was just a shot of energy to start the second, just like against Haiti.

I thought Bedoya was great.  Criminal that there was no card on the tackle against him just outside the box in the first, CONCACAF'd real hard there.  Otherwise he was very good and his assist was beautiful.

Chandler must have some heavy blackmail on JK cause he was f-ing atrocious and still wasn't subbed off.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 14, 2015, 09:28:05 AM
First game of the GC I watched from start to finish.

Can we leave Wondo at home from now on? Yes, yes, and yes.  Please no more Wondo.

Disappointed in the development of Timmy Chandler. I expected him to be more like Fabian.  Agreed.  He looked good against Guatemala, terribly awful since then.  Need to explore additional options at RB.

Very good performance in short time from Aron.   I'm loving what I see out of Aron.  Need to find a way to get him on the field more often.

Bedoya continues to show me why he should be in the top 11 for this team every game.

Beckerman has lost a LOT in since the WC.  Agreed.  I may be a bit biased on this one, but I think Mix can play that spot well.

Seems we began moving on from Besler and Gonzo early, perhaps? Better second half, but I don't trust JAB or Alvarado as full-time starters   I think a pairing of JAB and Gonzo would do great.  I don't like moving away from him, and possibly Alvarado can develop into a solid starter, but he isn't close yet.  JAB made a few mistakes, but I really like what I see out of him.

Zardes could be special with further development. Same with Yedlin.  Agreed.  These two are the future of this team.  Along with a few other individuals not on the GC roster (Danny Williams, Jordan Morris, etc.)

First half was awful. Totally disjointed. Second half much improved. Clint made a big difference.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 14, 2015, 09:32:48 AM
Brooks acquitted himself well in the second half after falling asleep on the Panama goal.  He was everywhere in the box in the second half, killing plenty of chances.  He'll be missed next game.

Love the combination of Dempsey and Zardes.  They really click and it was just a shot of energy to start the second, just like against Haiti.


I thought Bedoya was great.  Criminal that there was no card on the tackle against him just outside the box in the first, CONCACAF'd real hard there.  Otherwise he was very good and his assist was beautiful.

Chandler must have some heavy blackmail on JK cause he was f-ing atrocious and still wasn't subbed off.

Agreed. I thought Dempsey, Zardes, Aron, Bradley, Bedoya was very impressive moving the ball quickly in confined spaces.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 14, 2015, 10:57:28 AM
The KC crowd rocked last night.  That was one hell of an environment.

Agreed. Nice job by the home crowd even late in the game.

Remember when the US were a supporter's underdog in almost every match played in the states? That sucked.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 14, 2015, 01:29:57 PM
Agreed. Nice job by the home crowd even late in the game.

Remember when the US were a supporter's underdog in almost every match played in the states? That sucked.

I went to the US vs Honduras at Soldier Field in 2009 during World Cup qualifying.  We won 2-1, but I think the stands were 4-1 Hondurans to US fans.  They scored the first goal and I thought the stadium was going to collapse.  It was insane.  Glad we've come back from that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 14, 2015, 04:00:00 PM
I went to the US vs Honduras at Soldier Field in 2009 during World Cup qualifying.  We won 2-1, but I think the stands were 4-1 Hondurans to US fans.  They scored the first goal and I thought the stadium was going to collapse.  It was insane.  Glad we've come back from that.

Yeah, for me it will always be the 2007 Gold Cup at Soldier. Played Mexico and I bet it was 20-1 Mexican fans. I expected to be outnumbered, but not nearly that badly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 14, 2015, 08:57:47 PM
With Jamaica winning tonight, USA will face the higher finisher between the third place teams in Groups B or C (most likely to be El Salvador or Guatemala).  Winner of that match would then face winner of Jamaica and Haiti.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 22, 2015, 07:11:06 PM
Not that surprising.  Jamaica played spirited ball in Copa America.  We've looked flat this entire tournament except against Cuba, which isn't saying much.  Defense was awful in the first half.

First time I've seen MB score from point blank in a long time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 22, 2015, 07:13:38 PM
Brutal. I would say Klinsy's job is on the line if we don't win the Confed playoff game, but I think Gulati is tied to Klins until after 2018.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 22, 2015, 10:01:08 PM
Unbelievable PK again for Mexico.

And then Mexican fans throw debris at Panama bench. Stay classy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 22, 2015, 10:09:35 PM
That Panama hand ball call was absurd.  Really going to benefit from two bad calls in consecutive games.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: injuryBug on July 22, 2015, 10:12:38 PM
that was a joke mexican fans even worse
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 22, 2015, 10:38:47 PM
Mexican fans STILL throwing things on the field. Just total trash
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 22, 2015, 10:48:26 PM
that was a joke mexican fans even worse

Been that way for a long time.  You should see when they play here in So. Cal....what a wonderment it is.  Shutting down freeways, wrecking cars, trashing the neighborhoods.   ::) 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 22, 2015, 10:52:01 PM
Brutal. I would say Klinsy's job is on the line if we don't win the Confed playoff game, but I think Gulati is tied to Klins until after 2018.

I don't have as much of a problem with JK after this.  The US came off a great run in Europe and honestly, minus the lack of finishing, they looked dangerous and effective moving the ball and attacking today.  Jamaica got 2 set piece goals against the run of play.  US outshot Jamaica 10 to 3.  I liked the lineup today (minus Beckerman, which was remedied at half), but at the end of the day, players need to execute.  Our finishing was poor all tournament.

The Mexico game is disgusting.  The straight red was a poor call, yellow at worst.  The penalty to tie the game was one of the worst calls Ive seen.  Not to mention it followed a leg sweep by the Mexican player which caused the defender to fall.  And of course they were awarded an additional penalty in extra time.  Mexico will be in the final despite not scoring a non-PK goal in 210+ min.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 22, 2015, 11:12:25 PM
Mexican fans STILL throwing things on the field. Just total trash

And CONCACAF won't do a thing about it. If this happened in Europe, they would be playing matches in empty stadiums.

The whole thing is disgusting, really. Costa Rica and Panama were both robbed by borderline crooked refereeing. All to benefit Mexico and their horrendous fans.

I really would love to see Jamaica win on Sunday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 23, 2015, 07:02:21 AM
After the USA game, I didn't have it in me to watch the second game, though it would have been hilarious to see USA/Mexico in the third place game.

It won't happen, but I really wish the Jurgen experiment would end. We do great in meaningless friendlies after going down, but when it matters, we are poor. Outplayed by Honduras and Haiti but won, finally play a halfway decent game against Jamaica, but lost. After scoring to start the second half, I was convinced we would attack constantly and break through. Instead, we could barely manage meaningful possession in the second half and once Gordon came on, we took a page from the WWC team with Wambach and all we did was play longball.

Our backline is infuriating. Every time out it seems we have a new back four. Honestly, you could argue that three of our best defenders (Besler, Goodson, Cameron) didn't even make the team. And why is Kyle Beckerman still playing while Danny Williams can't even get a call? Bradley constantly out of position and being asked to play the role of 6, 10, and box-to-box. Zardes still deployed at wing despite probably being our best forward. Yedlin sitting until darn near the 80th when we were chasing the game. Bring in Beasley only to have him sit on the bench when the thought process was it would allow Fabian Johnson to push further up the pitch. Just nonsensical moves from Klinsmann.

He's a great recruiter but poor tactician. A buddy of mine compared him to Calipari, but I think that undersells Cal's recruiting ability and oversells Jurgen's tactical ability. Dempsey and Bradley had some spectacular plays this competition and that's the only reason we went as far as we did. Of course, we'll carry on with Jurgen, win some friendlies, and qualify for the World Cup, so he's set until 2018.

Honestly, the October playoff should absolutely be for his job. If we don't make the Confederations he should be gone. Having that path to the final and not reaching it, we are at the point where we might fall out of the top-40 of the FIFA rankings. Behind such heavyweights as Iceland, Scotland, and Tunisia.

Just a very frustrating night. I wasn't a fan of the JK hire at the time. He's shown some flashes, given some encouraging moments, but the bottom line is these are the games you have to win. There is no excuse for losing to Jamaica at home. First time we missed the GC final since 2003 (lost to Brazil in the semis) and first time we lost to a Caribbean team at home since 1968 (Haiti). Inexcusable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 23, 2015, 08:28:07 AM
Bottom line, love the players he's brought in, but hate the way the team is managed. We'll have JK through 2018, but my hope is that we get a better tactician when he leaves who can take advantage of the players he's recruited to the best of their abilities.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 23, 2015, 09:06:57 AM
Bottom line, love the players he's brought in, but hate the way the team is managed. We'll have JK through 2018, but my hope is that we get a better tactician when he leaves who can take advantage of the players he's recruited to the best of their abilities.

If JK serves as the Crean to the USMNT, I'm fine with that.  He's also the US Soccer technical director, and strides in that area have been good.  The US has A LOT of promising talent in the 16-20 year old range.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 23, 2015, 09:09:35 AM
It's better to be lucky then good. Mexico has had an unbelievable amount of luck over the past 24 months with a World Cup Qualifying campaign that would embarrass even the mighty Fijian federation only to become a darling of the early rounds last year in Brasil. Follow that up with piss poor organization in this Gold Cup only to receive the luck afforded by classically incompetent CONCACAF officiating.

I found it funny that the day Tim Howard announces he's ready to return to the squad, Guzan put in a terrible performance and was the primary culprit on both Jamaican goals. Howard walks right back into his position as the #1.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on July 23, 2015, 09:14:43 AM
I found it funny that the day Tim Howard announces he's ready to return to the squad, Guzan put in a terrible performance and was the primary culprit on both Jamaican goals. Howard walks right back into his position as the #1.

That thought crossed my mind last night as well. Not great timing for Howard to come out with that.

Guzan hasn't inspired a ton of confidence, though. Mistake last night aside, he has been shaky whenever he has had to come off his line. Reminds me a bit of Simon Mignolet at Liverpool, very good shot stopper, but doesn't exactly command his area.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 23, 2015, 09:51:53 AM
My question about Howard is if he's the future, even the immediate future. He'll be 39 in 2018. Not too old to play the position necessarily, but certainly not likely to be at his athletic best. And if we go to Howard over Guzan, it likely will mean passing on Guzan ever taking the first choice job. Not necessarily a bad thing with Yarbrough, Cropper, and Hamid coming up behind him, but it will certainly impact the position for a good decade or so if Howard goes back to first choice.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 23, 2015, 10:14:04 AM
I feel like Hamid needs to make the move to Europe like Howard did to jump start his career.  Otherwise he feels like Nick Rimando 2.0 to me.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 26, 2015, 11:52:49 AM
Anyone watch yesterday's debacle? Panama really dominated us start to finish. If not for some great saves by Guzan and two balls being cleared off the line it could have easily been 4 or 5 to 1. Brooks was horrible on the goal, not just missing his mark but running Ream out of the play as well. Panama had numerous near misses go just wide as well. This is probably the worst the US has performed in a tournament since 1998. Ugh.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: injuryBug on July 26, 2015, 12:04:15 PM
Back line has been bad but this is the worst I have seen it in years.  If Panama had more skilled forwards this would have been real ugly. 
Is it the players on defense or the keeper not working well with them?  or even how they are being coached? Having played defense it is not the easiest thing but these guys make it look like the most difficult job in the world.
Mark your man and communicate.

Interesting how a few months ago we played so well in Europe and now this.  Makes you wonder just how serious the Dutch and Germans took those friendlies
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 26, 2015, 12:47:40 PM
Back line has been bad but this is the worst I have seen it in years.  If Panama had more skilled forwards this would have been real ugly. 
Is it the players on defense or the keeper not working well with them?  or even how they are being coached? Having played defense it is not the easiest thing but these guys make it look like the most difficult job in the world.
Mark your man and communicate.

Interesting how a few months ago we played so well in Europe and now this.  Makes you wonder just how serious the Dutch and Germans took those friendlies

We have had no defensive consistency. Look at the game-by-game lineups this competition:

Honduras: Johnson, Brooks, Alvarado, Chandler
Haiti: Garza, Ream, Gonzalez, Evans
Panama: Johnson, Brooks, Alvarado, Chandler
Cuba: Johnson, Alvarado, Gonzalez, Evans
Jamaica: Johnson, Brooks, Alvarado, Evans
Panama: Ream, Brooks, Gonzalez, Chandler

So in 6 games, we had 5 different back lines. How is a defense supposed to come together as a unit when they never know who will be playing on a game-to-game basis? I think that's why the communication suffers, because they don't play together consistently. And the guy who is tabbed with leading the defense seems to be Brooks, who at 22 years of age simply doesn't have the experience to be a backline general. I mean, let's be honest, when you think about the guys we've had over the years in that role, from Besler to Onyewu to Bocanegra all the way back to Lalas, those were vocal guys who demonstrated leadership. Brooks might get there in a few years, but he isn't there yet.

Agreed on those friendlies. They are fun results to watch, but ultimately, these games are the ones on which our manager needs to be judged. No one will care if we beat or lost to Germany in a friendly, but when you have arguably the worst tournament performance in the modern era (and certainly the worst since at least the 1998 World Cup) there is a problem.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 26, 2015, 12:59:37 PM
Some good reads:

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2015/7/23/9020133/jurgen-klinsmann-usa-jamaica-the-usmnt-beat-germany-just-a-month-ago

http://www.mlssoccer.com/goldcup/2015/news/article/2015/07/25/armchair-analyst-gold-cup-epitaph-usmnt-and-reason-worry-going-forward
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 26, 2015, 01:25:59 PM
Thanks for sharing, Jesu. The first one, the pro-JK article, for me actually underscores why he needs to go. You can't ignore the importance of CONCACAF games, and while he may be helping build the US for the future, the odds seem very slim that he will be a part of that future. No way he lasts long after 2018, almost no matter what the results (just too long for a NT coach to keep tenure).

I do believe that no matter what, he'll keep the job and have a chance to prove himself in qualifying. With our weak group, he will certainly make the Hexagonal. Most likely it will be a year or more before there's even consideration of him being ousted.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 26, 2015, 01:36:05 PM
Some good reads:

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2015/7/23/9020133/jurgen-klinsmann-usa-jamaica-the-usmnt-beat-germany-just-a-month-ago

http://www.mlssoccer.com/goldcup/2015/news/article/2015/07/25/armchair-analyst-gold-cup-epitaph-usmnt-and-reason-worry-going-forward


I said it last month, but beating the Dutch and Germans in friendliest just doesn't mean much in my opinion.  People got way too excited.  It's like when a power team in NCAA hoops loses an exhibition game and folks freak out....doesn't mean squat.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 26, 2015, 02:27:06 PM

I said it last month, but beating the Dutch and Germans in friendliest just doesn't mean much in my opinion.  People got way too excited.  It's like when a power team in NCAA hoops loses an exhibition game and folks freak out....doesn't mean squat.

They were fun results to watch, made for some good entertainment, but ultimately just not that important. On another site, someone wrote that the wins over the Netherlands and Germany were the two biggest results in US Soccer history. All I could think was that this person must have been new to the sport since 2010, since I'd say just off the top of my head beating Colombia (1994), Mexico (2002), and Spain (2009) were all far more significant results in the modern era. And that's without going back to 1950.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 26, 2015, 06:06:25 PM

I said it last month, but beating the Dutch and Germans in friendliest just doesn't mean much in my opinion.  People got way too excited.  It's like when a power team in NCAA hoops loses an exhibition game and folks freak out....doesn't mean squat.

Well interestingly enough, those games featured timely and effective scoring attacks from guys like Bobby Wood and Jordan Morris, and good minutes from Danny Williams.  I think people were justifiably excited cause they were good results against top tier teams featuring MAJOR contributions from younger US players, who then didnt play in the Gold Cup for a variety of reasons related to club and health.  I think some people are overplaying it and you're definitely underplaying it.  As it relates to the future of the USMNT, I think they were huge wins.  Not biggest in history, cause that's just silly, but big.

I agree the defensive backline is a huge concern.  I really wonder how a healthy Geoff Cameron would factor in.  I personally don't care about yesterdays result in the slightest.  A third place game in the Gold Cup is meaningless and completely unsurprising that the team didn't seem inspired.  Focus your efforts and energy on the playoff.  If there is another head scratcher of a lineup and uninspired result, then the questions can be brought up.  If they beat Jamaica or Mexico in October, its a moot point and a disappointing stretch following a promising stretch.  The Gold Cup is a joke anyways as evidenced by most of Mexico's matches thus far.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 26, 2015, 06:14:42 PM
Well interestingly enough, those games featured timely and effective scoring attacks from guys like Bobby Wood and Jordan Morris, and good minutes from Danny Williams.  I think people were justifiably excited cause they were good results against top tier teams featuring MAJOR contributions from younger US players, who then didnt play in the Gold Cup for a variety of reasons related to club and health.  I think some people are overplaying it and you're definitely underplaying it.  As it relates to the future of the USMNT, I think they were huge wins.  Not biggest in history, cause that's just silly, but big.

I agree the defensive backline is a huge concern.  I really wonder how a healthy Geoff Cameron would factor in.  I personally don't care about yesterdays result in the slightest.  A third place game in the Gold Cup is meaningless and completely unsurprising that the team didn't seem inspired.  Focus your efforts and energy on the playoff.  If there is another head scratcher of a lineup and uninspired result, then the questions can be brought up.  If they beat Jamaica or Mexico in October, its a moot point and a disappointing stretch following a promising stretch.  The Gold Cup is a joke anyways as evidenced by most of Mexico's matches thus far.

My point is that those opponents aren't giving it their all, they aren't even fielding all of their best players.  It is an exhibition game, they're playing like it while our guys are playing like it's a World Cup game.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 26, 2015, 08:12:38 PM
My point is that those opponents aren't giving it their all, they aren't even fielding all of their best players.  It is an exhibition game, they're playing like it while our guys are playing like it's a World Cup game.

To be fair, since we did play men like Bobby Wood and Jordan Morris, neither was the US fielding all of their best players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 26, 2015, 11:21:55 PM
To be fair, since we did play men like Bobby Wood and Jordan Morris, neither was the US fielding all of their best players.

If not for injury, I wonder if Jordan would have been on this Gold Cup team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 26, 2015, 11:46:45 PM
To be fair, since we did play men like Bobby Wood and Jordan Morris, neither was the US fielding all of their best players.

Yes, but their best are better than our best....by a decent margin in my opinion.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 27, 2015, 09:18:07 AM
Yes, but their best are better than our best....by a decent margin in my opinion.

Taking that notion and running, if our second best was better then the second best from the World Champions I'd say Klinnsi has had a measurable impact on US Soccer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 27, 2015, 09:24:50 AM
Taking that notion and running, if our second best was better then the second best from the World Champions I'd say Klinnsi has had a measurable impact on US Soccer.

Taking that notion and running, if our first best was worse than the first best from Jamaica and Panama, I'd say Klinnsi has had a measurable impact on US Soccer as well, however not in a good way.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 27, 2015, 09:30:17 AM
Pre-Klinny:  Win about 40% of Gold Cups.  Qualify for the World Cup with relative ease.  Possibly get out of the group stage but rarely go further.

Under Klinny:  1 for 2 in Gold Cups.  Qualified for the WC with relative ease.  Got out of the group state and lost in the round of 16.  (My guess is that we will also qualify for the WC with relative ease and finished second or third in the group.)

So I really don't see that much measurable impact either way.  Perhaps down the line with some of the players he has recruited. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 27, 2015, 09:30:21 AM
Taking that notion and running, if our second best was better then the second best from the World Champions I'd say Klinnsi has had a measurable impact on US Soccer.

In my opinion, he has had a mostly positive impact on US soccer.  Not sure I agree with your analogy, however.  It was as much about who was not playing as it is about the effort and willingness to care about playing.  They were exhibition games against a team ranked in the middle 30's in the world.  We were far more up for those games then they are to play the US. 

Do you think the Dutch get really fired up to play Tunisia in a friendly?  Yet Tunisia is ranked higher than the US is in the FIFA world rankings.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 27, 2015, 09:35:24 AM
My point is that those opponents aren't giving it their all, they aren't even fielding all of their best players.  It is an exhibition game, they're playing like it while our guys are playing like it's a World Cup game.

Thats not true at all.  Maybe in some friendlies, but that was 85%+ of German roster only missing Neuer, Muller, and Kroos from their regulars.  Ozil, Schweinsteger, Gotze, Khedira, Schurrle, etc... all played.  It wasn't the C squad the US beat a few years ago.  And that Dutch team was full strength and playing hard.  You're playing a common friendlies storyline that just wasn't true with those two games.  Sure they weren't results in the World Cup, but that shouldn't cheapen them at all.  Those are two squads prepping for final Euor 2016 qualifying, they aren't lollygagging around.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 27, 2015, 09:44:30 AM
Taking that notion and running, if our first best was worse than the first best from Jamaica and Panama, I'd say Klinnsi has had a measurable impact on US Soccer as well, however not in a good way.

Ah, see but that's the thing. In my opinion, we didn't play our first best at the gold cup. And it would appear, as mentioned in the articles, that klins doesn't care much about concacaf outside of WC qualifying, so he is still experimenting.

I'm not saying I agree with his approach, but that appears to be his mindset.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 27, 2015, 09:45:45 AM
Pre-Klinny:  Win about 40% of Gold Cups.  Qualify for the World Cup with relative ease.  Possibly get out of the group stage but rarely go further.

Under Klinny:  1 for 2 in Gold Cups.  Qualified for the WC with relative ease.  Got out of the group state and lost in the round of 16.  (My guess is that we will also qualify for the WC with relative ease and finished second or third in the group.)

So I really don't see that much measurable impact either way.  Perhaps down the line with some of the players he has recruited.

I think you need to judge him besides just the onfield results, but the development program which will start to come into play over the next 10 years. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 27, 2015, 09:47:38 AM
Thats not true at all.  Maybe in some friendlies, but that was 85%+ of German roster only missing Neuer, Muller, and Kroos from their regulars.  Ozil, Schweinsteger, Gotze, Khedira, Schurrle, etc... all played.  It wasn't the C squad the US beat a few years ago.  And that Dutch team was full strength and playing hard.  You're playing a common friendlies storyline that just wasn't true with those two games.  Sure they weren't results in the World Cup, but that shouldn't cheapen them at all.  Those are two squads prepping for final Euor 2016 qualifying, they aren't lollygagging around.

How do you measure will, intensity, caring about playing?  Because the bodies are out there doesn't mean they are putting in the same effort, care about the result, etc.  It's the US on the other side of the field, and as much as many here don't want to admit, in the game of soccer that doesn't mean a whole lot. 

Put another way, it means a lot more for the US to play Germany than it does the Germans to play the US.  There are 20+ teams that the Germans are going to be more fired up for.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 27, 2015, 09:52:14 AM
How do you measure will, intensity, caring about playing?  Because the bodies are out there doesn't mean they are putting in the same effort, care about the result, etc.  It's the US on the other side of the field, and as much as many here don't want to admit, in the game of soccer that doesn't mean a whole lot. 

Put another way, it means a lot more for the US to play Germany than it does the Germans to play the US.  There are 20+ teams that the Germans are going to be more fired up for.


Well so how do you know?  How do you know that the Germans and Dutch weren't all that fired up?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 27, 2015, 10:14:19 AM

Well so how do you know?  How do you know that the Germans and Dutch weren't all that fired up?

Human nature. 

1)  Exhibition game
2)  We are ranked 34th in the world...34th
3)  Some of their top players didn't play...their top players way better than our top players
4)  There aren't 3 guys on the US that could start for either of those teams

So on and so forth.  Or just reading the soccer journalists takes before the games were even played.  The intensity wasn't there, just a friendly, more important for them (US) than us, so on and so forth.


I'll give you an example, about 2 weeks ago we had Barcelona in town to play the LA Galaxy in a friendly.  93,000 people showed up for the game.  Barcelona won 2-1.  Neymar and Messi didn't play, and quite frankly the "stars" who did were going through the motions.  The score looked ok, though the Galaxy scored in the 90th minute.  Barcelona brought their C game.  Some soccer goofs out in this part of the world started talking about how good the Galaxy are....yesterday the Galaxy got destroyed by Houston in the MLS. 

Can I prove what is in a man's heart and how hard they tried?  Nope.  The reverse is true as well.  I'm just going by human nature, starting with the obvious...it was an exhibition game vs a team that is ranked 34th in the world.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 27, 2015, 10:20:55 AM
So you really don't know.  You are simply making assumptions.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 27, 2015, 11:53:05 AM
Human nature. 

1)  Exhibition game
2)  We are ranked 34th in the world...34th
3)  Some of their top players didn't play...their top players way better than our top players
4)  There aren't 3 guys on the US that could start for either of those teams

So on and so forth.  Or just reading the soccer journalists takes before the games were even played.  The intensity wasn't there, just a friendly, more important for them (US) than us, so on and so forth.


I'll give you an example, about 2 weeks ago we had Barcelona in town to play the LA Galaxy in a friendly.  93,000 people showed up for the game.  Barcelona won 2-1.  Neymar and Messi didn't play, and quite frankly the "stars" who did were going through the motions.  The score looked ok, though the Galaxy scored in the 90th minute.  Barcelona brought their C game.  Some soccer goofs out in this part of the world started talking about how good the Galaxy are....yesterday the Galaxy got destroyed by Houston in the MLS. 

Can I prove what is in a man's heart and how hard they tried?  Nope.  The reverse is true as well.  I'm just going by human nature, starting with the obvious...it was an exhibition game vs a team that is ranked 34th in the world.

As has been demonstrated numerous times by several journalists/analysts, the FIFA rankings are incredibly flawed. About zero people actually pay attention to them and they matter even less to the teams/players.

Germany didn't play several top players. But neither did the US.

I don't disagree with the premise for your argument, however.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 27, 2015, 12:04:28 PM
The FIFA rankings only matter for World Cup seeding. If you aren't in the top 7-8, they have no value and are incredibly flawed in that mediocre European and South American teams will be overrated.

The ELO rankings are a much better indicator. Coming into this tournament, the USA was ranked 14th, Jamaica 71st, and Panama 40th. Those are not games we should be losing, especially on home soil.

We dropped from 14th to 20th this month.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 27, 2015, 12:37:29 PM
In my opinion, he has had a mostly positive impact on US soccer.  Not sure I agree with your analogy, however.  It was as much about who was not playing as it is about the effort and willingness to care about playing.  They were exhibition games against a team ranked in the middle 30's in the world.  We were far more up for those games then they are to play the US. 

Do you think the Dutch get really fired up to play Tunisia in a friendly?  Yet Tunisia is ranked higher than the US is in the FIFA world rankings.

I don't agree with my analogy. I wrote it to show how ludicrous it is to consider everything black/white regarding our soccer program. The concept of a best XI is fluid and changes by the week for any of the top nations in the world outside of a competition. Definitively stating that one side has a B/C squad and one side has an A/B squad is foolish unless the manager has explicitly fielded a youth team.

Rankings don't matter. Accomplishments do. The German and Dutch federations scheduled a match that would draw 40-45,000 people against a country that was in the final 16 last year in Brasil. You take a 2004 mindset when it comes to the standing the US enjoys presently. They aren't top tier but they draw a crowd and will qualify out of a World Cup group stage. Tunisia provides neither of those even with a higher Coca-Cola ranking.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 27, 2015, 11:19:44 PM
I don't agree with my analogy. I wrote it to show how ludicrous it is to consider everything black/white regarding our soccer program. The concept of a best XI is fluid and changes by the week for any of the top nations in the world outside of a competition. Definitively stating that one side has a B/C squad and one side has an A/B squad is foolish unless the manager has explicitly fielded a youth team.

Rankings don't matter. Accomplishments do. The German and Dutch federations scheduled a match that would draw 40-45,000 people against a country that was in the final 16 last year in Brasil. You take a 2004 mindset when it comes to the standing the US enjoys presently. They aren't top tier but they draw a crowd and will qualify out of a World Cup group stage. Tunisia provides neither of those even with a higher Coca-Cola ranking.

To each their own.  We're ok, but we aren't elite or even very good.  Yes, we made the final 16 and were throughly outclassed every possible way against Belgium in that Round of 16 game in regulation.  Dominated, but as soccer purists know you can get lucky and survive for 90 minutes and pull off an upset.  We didn't, of course, but we almost did. 

We all have our opinions. I played most of my life, could have walked on at MU if I had tried.  Played with Cobi Jones, Erik Wynalda in high school.  My son is one of the better goalkeepers here in the O.C.  In my opinion, there aren't more than 3 guys on our starting squad that could start on any of the top 10 teams.  We are better now overall then we were in 2004, so I dispute your claims.  That being said, we still aren't that good.  In my view, Germany and the Dutch treated the game like it was....an exhibition game.  In fact, in at least one of them they also got up big and then went to cruise control and ultimately lost.  In a real game, that would not have happened.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 27, 2015, 11:20:43 PM
So you really don't know.  You are simply making assumptions.

Yup, just like I said....though I try to tie those assumptions with some logic, some data, some expert opinions.  Best I can do.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 28, 2015, 12:32:10 AM
Unless the best athletes from the country start playing soccer, the US will never be good and will never come close to winning the world cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 28, 2015, 06:14:58 AM
Unless the best athletes from the country start playing soccer, the US will never be good and will never come close to winning the world cup.

Disagree. We have enough of a population that we are already able to support 3 pro sports leagues at the highest level with mostly (50%+) domestic players. There are enough people and resources in this country that we would be able to win a Cup splitting athletes.

We do need some of our best to play the sport, but I think it's attainable within this generation (2026 at earliest) and certainly within our lifetime. The MLS academies are starting to bear fruit and, for better or worse, Klinsmann's recruiting strategy is working.

There are still steps to be made, but a slightly higher level of talent coupled with our typical better than the sum of the parts playstyle and it's completely possible.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 28, 2015, 08:50:16 AM
Unless the best athletes from the country start playing soccer, the US will never be good and will never come close to winning the world cup.

The best player in the world, and arguably ever, is 5'7 and 148 lbs. He would lose almost any athletic competition against any US player.

And also everything brewcity77 just said.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 28, 2015, 08:56:34 AM
Unless the best athletes from the country start playing soccer, the US will never be good and will never come close to winning the world cup.

You're watching way too much ESPN. That's unhealthy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 28, 2015, 09:09:39 AM
To each their own.  We're ok, but we aren't elite or even very good.  Yes, we made the final 16 and were throughly outclassed every possible way against Belgium in that Round of 16 game in regulation.  Dominated, but as soccer purists know you can get lucky and survive for 90 minutes and pull off an upset.  We didn't, of course, but we almost did. 

We all have our opinions. I played most of my life, could have walked on at MU if I had tried.  Played with Cobi Jones, Erik Wynalda in high school.  My son is one of the better goalkeepers here in the O.C.  In my opinion, there aren't more than 3 guys on our starting squad that could start on any of the top 10 teams.  We are better now overall then we were in 2004, so I dispute your claims.  That being said, we still aren't that good.  In my view, Germany and the Dutch treated the game like it was....an exhibition game.  In fact, in at least one of them they also got up big and then went to cruise control and ultimately lost.  In a real game, that would not have happened.

It seems your big benchmark is that you played the game 30 years ago. That's so long ago it's hardly relevant to the discussion of where the US Soccer program currently resides in the estimation of the world.

I'll finish this discussion by writing for someone so experienced in the sport to claim that in a "real game" we'd never see one team get up big, coast, and ultimately lose is naive. It happens. Often.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 28, 2015, 09:21:38 AM
It seems your big benchmark is that you played the game 30 years ago. That's so long ago it's hardly relevant to the discussion of where the US Soccer program currently resides in the estimation of the world.

I know you'll have pithy responses and I'm sure you'll mention again that you played with Wynaldumb and Jones so I'll finish this discussion by writing for someone so experienced in the sport to claim that in a "real game" we'd never see one team get up big, coast, and ultimately lose is naive. It happens. Often.

That's not my benchmark at all.  I offered it up simply because I'm not some random fan who watches soccer every 4 years.  I've played it most of my life, my son plays now at a high level. 

I happen to believe the MLS academies are doing some good work and find Klinsman's strategy there to be beneficial overall.  In my view, the average fan doesn't know that is going on or the benefits (hopefully) that it will yield.

My comments about the friendlies and the relative strength of the program against the elite teams of this world (i.e. the Dutch, Germans, etc) isn't going to change. We are better than we were in 2004, the 1990's, etc, but we are not at that level of those teams.  In my view there is a pretty big drop off after you get past the first 6 to 8 national teams.  And in my view, getting excited about beating Germany and the Dutch in a friendly is a fool's errand. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on July 28, 2015, 09:30:32 AM
Unless the best athletes from the country start playing soccer, the US will never be good and will never come close to winning the world cup.


It's not that.  I highly recommend reading a book called Soccernomics because it lays out in some detail why certain countries are really good at soccer despite their population, and vice versa. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ATWizJr on July 28, 2015, 09:50:17 AM
Anyone remember US Soccer's Plan 2010?  Was supposed to bring us a World Cup by then.  Thank God for the USWNT.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 30, 2015, 07:08:59 AM
I happen to believe the MLS academies are doing some good work and find Klinsman's strategy there to be beneficial overall.  In my view, the average fan doesn't know that is going on or the benefits (hopefully) that it will yield.

The MLS Academy push started 7 years ago and Don Garber is the one that deserves credit for it. That was 2 years before Klinsmann came on the job. JK's biggest development move so far is the coaching academy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 30, 2015, 08:41:31 AM
The MLS Academy push started 7 years ago and Don Garber is the one that deserves credit for it. That was 2 years before Klinsmann came on the job. JK's biggest development move so far is the coaching academy.

Understood when and how they were started, but they have recalibrated their focus under Klinsman and USA Soccer in the last few years.  The strategy has changed in how the academies are run.  We should be clear, too, it isn't just the MLS Academy but actually the USSDA.  Here in So. Cal, we have 7 programs alone...including the Strikers FC in Irvine for which my son has some involvement.  MLS is a major part, but so is NASL and USL. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 30, 2015, 10:04:45 AM
Went to Man Utd-PSG at Soldier Field last night for the final of the ICC.  Cool event, 60K+ fans, good atmosphere albeit a bit awkward and impersonal with some of the game atmosphere being more aligned with an NFL game, but fun nonetheless.  So many Walmart Man Utd fans in attendance.  I ran out of fingers counting the number of jerseys or shirts with tags still on them.  Absolutely amazing to see PSG outplay them and shut them up with a goal from Ibra.

While its all an exhibition, I think the attendance for these matches does nothing but help the sport overall in the states.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 30, 2015, 12:04:08 PM
Went to Man Utd-PSG at Soldier Field last night for the final of the ICC.  Cool event, 60K+ fans, good atmosphere albeit a bit awkward and impersonal with some of the game atmosphere being more aligned with an NFL game, but fun nonetheless.  So many Walmart Man Utd fans in attendance.  I ran out of fingers counting the number of jerseys or shirts with tags still on them.  Absolutely amazing to see PSG outplay them and shut them up with a goal from Ibra.

While its all an exhibition, I think the attendance for these matches does nothing but help the sport overall in the states.

Can't stand PSG. Nothing I dislike more then seeing David Luiz and Thiago Silva do well and win. (Don't even know if they played last night but the point is still the same)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 30, 2015, 12:28:54 PM
Can't stand PSG. Nothing I dislike more then seeing David Luiz and Thiago Silva do well and win. (Don't even know if they played last night but the point is still the same)

Really?  I assume its due to your Colombian fanship, but PSG is probably the most palatable of all the oil-infused superclubs to me.  Ibra is my favorite player in the world, and seeing him in person makes you appreciate him even more.  He moves like a shark off the ball.  I like Veratti, and Matuidi, and Digne.  Luiz is a joke and probably the most overpaid, ill advised transfer in recent memory.  Great kits and Parc du Princes is a really cool looking ground.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 30, 2015, 01:47:20 PM
Really?  I assume its due to your Colombian fanship, but PSG is probably the most palatable of all the oil-infused superclubs to me.  Ibra is my favorite player in the world, and seeing him in person makes you appreciate him even more.  He moves like a shark off the ball.  I like Veratti, and Matuidi, and Digne.  Luiz is a joke and probably the most overpaid, ill advised transfer in recent memory.  Great kits and Parc du Princes is a really cool looking ground.

In all fairness I do like Ibra, but he's been bounced around so many times I'd hardly call him a PSG player. Maybe you're right though, I just don't really like Brazilian soccer players. I'm a Chelsea fan and I want to pull my hair out every time Willian is playing. That and Neymar may be my least favorite superstar in the world.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 30, 2015, 05:34:44 PM
In all fairness I do like Ibra, but he's been bounced around so many times I'd hardly call him a PSG player. Maybe you're right though, I just don't really like Brazilian soccer players. I'm a Chelsea fan and I want to pull my hair out every time Willian is playing. That and Neymar may be my least favorite superstar in the world.

Seems pretty clear the Brasil bias is there if you don't like the Brasilians on your own squad. Understandable given your heritage.

I, too, do not mind PSG even though the other rich puppies of soccer (Monaco, Citeh, Chelski, etc.) I find to be ludicrous in their ridiculousness. But my bias is also down to the Zlatan. I've been a fanboy of his since the Ajax days and his recent video interview with SI.com is pure gold. I love the "wow" man.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 31, 2015, 09:55:16 AM
I used to watch Zlatan a ton when he was at Inter. He is a simply amazing player. So technically gifted for a man his size. For me, him and Messi are the two best players in the world, with Ronaldo a step behind them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 08, 2015, 03:35:31 PM
USA/Mexico Confederations Cup playoff scheduled for October 10.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on August 09, 2015, 11:07:53 AM
USA/Mexico Confederations Cup playoff scheduled for October 10.

Yup, 93K expected...will be a HOME game for the Mexican Nat Team.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 09, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Yup, 93K expected...will be a HOME game for the Mexican Nat Team.

It'll be interesting to see. Sounds like they are trying hard to make sure that most of the tickets get sold in presale which will be divvied up evenly between fans on both sides. I already know there are fundraisers to buy up as much of the US allocation as possible to get military veterans and AO supporters in the stadium.

It's still in LA, so probably more Mexico fans than USA, but I doubt it will be the 95% Mexican fans we've seen at so many venues in the past.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on August 09, 2015, 11:21:43 AM
It'll be interesting to see. Sounds like they are trying hard to make sure that most of the tickets get sold in presale which will be divvied up evenly between fans on both sides. I already know there are fundraisers to buy up as much of the US allocation as possible to get military veterans and AO supporters in the stadium.

It's still in LA, so probably more Mexico fans than USA, but I doubt it will be the 95% Mexican fans we've seen at so many venues in the past.

I'm working on a digital product right now that targets US Hispanics as a consumer base.  The agency working with the project is so convinced it will be dominated by Mexican fans that they are hiring two planes to pull banners all day at the Rose Bowl with advertising messaging.  Also street teams, etc.  They expect 70%+ Mexican support.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 09, 2015, 11:44:52 AM
I'm working on a digital product right now that targets US Hispanics as a consumer base.  The agency working with the project is so convinced it will be dominated by Mexican fans that they are hiring two planes to pull banners all day at the Rose Bowl with advertising messaging.  Also street teams, etc.  They expect 70%+ Mexican support.

It'll be interesting to see. My guess is probably about 60/40. There's a big grassroots push by Americans to get tickets to that game in the hands of USA supporters.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on August 09, 2015, 11:13:21 PM
It'll be interesting to see. My guess is probably about 60/40. There's a big grassroots push by Americans to get tickets to that game in the hands of USA supporters.

The firm we use, looks like they lost a pilot today.  Eagles fans hired them to fly an anti-Cowboys banner over Cowboys practice here in So. Cal and the plane crashed and killed the pilot.

http://www.foxsports.com/southwest/story/dallas-cowboys-philadelphia-eagles-plane-crash-banner-compton-oxnard-080915

Sad
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Tortuga94 on August 10, 2015, 03:39:02 PM
USA/Mexico Confederations Cup playoff scheduled for October 10.

Neither team played well in the gold cup. The US finishing 4th is terrible and Mexico got the benefit of a couple of dubious calls.
Mexico's coaching situation is a bit of a mess right now after firing Piojo. Apparently their top candidate, Marcelo Bielsa just turned down the job. The Mexican press and fanbase thought it was a done deal, as he had just resigned from his gig at Marseille, but he must have realized how unrealistic the expectations of the FMF are.

On paper though, Mexico's players are more talented, but with a new coach and maybe a new system being implemented it's up for grabs for both teams.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 20, 2015, 04:37:18 PM
The Chicago fire are a unnatural carnal knowledgeing joke right now. Highest ever paid DP just left for "personal reasons". Ya, sure. Just like drogba, Jones and Rodgers didn't want to be in Chicago. Ownership on down is awful. The fact that they have a wall street guy with no prior soccer experience having a say in technical decisions is high comedy. Embarrassing
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 20, 2015, 08:02:22 PM
The Chicago fire are a unnatural carnal knowledgeing joke right now. Highest ever paid DP just left for "personal reasons". Ya, sure. Just like drogba, Jones and Rodgers didn't want to be in Chicago. Ownership on down is awful. The fact that they have a wall street guy with no prior soccer experience having a say in technical decisions is high comedy. Embarrassing

Amazing how far and fast that franchise fell. The first few years, they were the envy of the league. I suppose that will happen when you have Peter Wilt and Bob Bradley in charge...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on August 21, 2015, 08:34:48 AM
The Chicago fire are a unnatural carnal knowledgeing joke right now. Highest ever paid DP just left for "personal reasons". Ya, sure. Just like drogba, Jones and Rodgers didn't want to be in Chicago. Ownership on down is awful. The fact that they have a wall street guy with no prior soccer experience having a say in technical decisions is high comedy. Embarrassing

The Fire are a complete mess.  Drives me nuts that my NYCFC only earned 1 point in 2 games against them.

However, I have heard that they are getting some decent money for Maloney.  If they go through some serious coaching changes, could be a good time to bring in a new DP.  Especially with all the movement the league has had this year.  Interest in playing in the MLS is going up and if the Fire can bring in a good coach (feel like this is the most important thing) they could land a quality DP next year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 21, 2015, 09:49:00 AM
While it won't change anytime soon cause its a relatively new and nice park, the Fire are hurt by Toyota Park.  Attendance is one of the lowest in the MLS and general buzz about the Fire is always pretty low, despite Chicago being a soccer friendly town.  While at the time, it was a smart decision as it catered to the neighborhood demographics of Chicago's Hispanic population who were early adopters, as the MLS becomes more and more mainstream, it keeps casual fans out.  I'm a big soccer fan, go to pretty much every major friendly and US match at Soldier Field, yet I've been to less than 5 Fire matches cause the only good option is a party bus/shuttle from one of the affiliated bars.  Fun, no doubt, but usually a group activity.  I compare it to games that I've been to in Toronto and Columbus and its no comparison.  Cbus isn't walkable, but its a much more driving-centric city in general.  Hard to draw in a curious, casual fan when they have to drive 40 min.

The mismanagement and lack of success are a completely different story.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on August 24, 2015, 10:53:35 AM
While it won't change anytime soon cause its a relatively new and nice park, the Fire are hurt by Toyota Park.  Attendance is one of the lowest in the MLS and general buzz about the Fire is always pretty low, despite Chicago being a soccer friendly town.  While at the time, it was a smart decision as it catered to the neighborhood demographics of Chicago's Hispanic population who were early adopters, as the MLS becomes more and more mainstream, it keeps casual fans out.  I'm a big soccer fan, go to pretty much every major friendly and US match at Soldier Field, yet I've been to less than 5 Fire matches cause the only good option is a party bus/shuttle from one of the affiliated bars.  Fun, no doubt, but usually a group activity.  I compare it to games that I've been to in Toronto and Columbus and its no comparison.  Cbus isn't walkable, but its a much more driving-centric city in general.  Hard to draw in a curious, casual fan when they have to drive 40 min.

Disagree entirely. If the Fire were worth watching, the location wouldn't matter.

Back to jesmu84's point, the Fire owner is more concerned with maximizing profitability than he is with a winning product. The organization is a dumpster fire. Yallop may not be a very good coach, but more coaching turnover is only going to reinforce the poor product on the field. Frankly, the entire situation is working just fine for Hauptman. Considering my soccer fandom starts and ends with the Fire (US teams in the middle), it f*cking sucks.

Not only am I boycotting the Fire on TV and at TP, I actively discourage friends from going.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 09, 2015, 09:34:42 AM
Mexican television's hype video for the October 10 game.  Very clever.

https://streamable.com/hplh
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on September 10, 2015, 08:44:49 AM
Mexican television's hype video for the October 10 game.  Very clever.

https://streamable.com/hplh

I will be there with 93,000 other folks.   Fully expect the USA to play poorly in a road game on our own soil.  Brazil made us look silly the other day.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 12, 2015, 12:20:52 PM
I will be there with 93,000 other folks.   Fully expect the USA to play poorly in a road game on our own soil.  Brazil made us look silly the other day.

They do that to a lot of people, but yeah, that was bad. Thankfully, Mexico isn't even a pale shadow of Brazil. There were some positives to come out of that game, at least I'm hoping. First, until giving up the PK, Cameron did okay against Douglas Costa. I know...Costa was still a terror, but there was a lot more danger coming off the left defensive flank than the right when he was in there. Hope to see Cameron starting in the Confed. Danny Williams was also solid and punctuated it with a fantastic strike.

Our defense is a shambles, but here's what I'd go with right now:

GK Guzan
RB Cameron --- CB Besler --- CB Gonzalez --- LB Johnson
CMF Jones --- CMF Williams
RMF Zardes --- AMF Bradley --- LMF Dempsey
CF Altidore

Okay...maybe not who I'd go with ideally but that's the combination of guys I think would be acceptable that JK might actually go with. Personally, I'd rather see Ethan Finlay at RMF and Zardes taking Altidore's spot up front. And while he might be great on the U-23 team, I also hope Yedlin is available for this team. Him, along with Jordan Morris are our best two options to inject some pace into the lineup in the second half and give us guys that can make a difference once legs start to tire. I think that's good enough to be able to beat Mexico. Not saying they will, or that I trust this coach to win a must-win game (which this is) but that team would at least have a chance.

Now if we go with Alvarado and Brooks, or move Johnson up and have Beasley on the back line, or put Jones in a CB spot instead, well then we'll probably have some problems.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on September 19, 2015, 01:38:33 PM
Don't know how many of you pay attention to the EPL but West Ham pulled off a colossal upset today against Man City. COYI
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 10, 2015, 10:44:03 AM
I'll be there today. 

LA Times already warning people to be careful in what they wear, due to the violence from a few years ago.  They tried to partition the tickets, but we believe it will be 70-30 Mexican, if not 80-20.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-us-mexico-soccer-security-20151009-story.html


Dodgers play at roughly the same time, Obama is in town and preparing to leave at same time.  The traffic out here today is going to be something off the charts.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-your-guide-to-surviving-obamajam-other-saturday-traffic-nightmares-20151010-story.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 10, 2015, 11:38:16 PM
*gulp*
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 11, 2015, 07:08:12 AM
US should have lost bigger. Terrible first half.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 11, 2015, 10:17:56 AM
It was something to behold last night.  Crazy energy.  In my view Mexico had 80% of the fans, though the suite I was in was at one end and the opposite of the Outlaws.  Still, for every Mexico jersey, I saw one USA jersey.

A home game for the Mexican team to be sure.  Their chants were in unison, their support fantastic.

A few vids I took

Mexicans calling our keeper a Punto  (that's Pus$y for those of you that don't know Spanish)
https://www.youtube.com/v/nvj402q6HnY


Final Whistle
https://www.youtube.com/v/VshO2X0d3Jo
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: injuryBug on October 11, 2015, 11:28:58 AM
US played not to lose and Mexico played to win.  Have to really question the lineup.  Jones got real tired and was not right after the head on collision and was constantly out of place on d.  Beckerman looked unsure on d which was evident on the game winner. 
It was like the US was protecting a lead the entire game.  They never tried to control the ball they just booted it up field to clear it.  Reminded me of a grade school team just learning to play the game
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 11, 2015, 12:55:51 PM
Bradley continues to disappoint in my opinion.  Solid player, but he had chances last night near the goal and couldn't even get an effective shot on goal.  I feel like he hurries up so much in key situations and is flustered.  He's a maddening player in my opinion. 

Our defense....not good.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 11, 2015, 03:15:43 PM
Bradley was fine last night. Created both goals with the FK and his pass to spring Yedlin. Here were my problems:

1) Our roster didn't suit our tactics: I'm okay with playing defense, conceding possession, and hitting on the counter. That worked for us for many years. But to make that work, you need a DM that can distribute up the pitch and fast wingers that can turn the attack. Beckerman can tackle, but is neither a ball winner nor distributor. We'd be better suited with Danny Williams in that spot (or Bradley, or Jones). And our wings weren't quick. Jones is too slow to counter, as is Zardes. Bedoya and Yedlin are far better suited out there, as is Ethan Finlay, who can't get a call from Klinsmann.

2) Another new defense: I like the four individual players, but Johnson just isn't the same on the right. The bigger problem is none of our defenders are familiar playing together. This has been an issue for a long time now.

3) Subs too late: Yedlin and Wood both made a impact, but too late. Where were they at the 60 minute mark? Yedlin was the first sub in the 78th. We were playing poorly again, so where was the urgency? If the manager doesn't sense the moment, how will the players?

4) Double Loss: Klinsmann earlier this year said the bar for success should be qualifying for the Olympics and Confederations Cup. Yesterday, not only did the full team lose to Mexico, the U23s lost to Honduras. Now we need to beat Canada Tuesday, then win a one game playoff with Colombia in Brazil to reach the Olympics. Klinsmann set two goals and we failed in both.

5) Lack of aggression: We equalized after 6 minutes and 12 minutes. If that ability was there, why not play to win throughout? Conceding possession is fine, but you need to show the ability to threaten. We only did that when we were down.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 11, 2015, 03:53:15 PM
Bradley was fine last night. Created both goals with the FK and his pass to spring Yedlin. Here were my problems:

1) Our roster didn't suit our tactics: I'm okay with playing defense, conceding possession, and hitting on the counter. That worked for us for many years. But to make that work, you need a DM that can distribute up the pitch and fast wingers that can turn the attack. Beckerman can tackle, but is neither a ball winner nor distributor. We'd be better suited with Danny Williams in that spot (or Bradley, or Jones). And our wings weren't quick. Jones is too slow to counter, as is Zardes. Bedoya and Yedlin are far better suited out there, as is Ethan Finlay, who can't get a call from Klinsmann.

Yup. I found it interesting that we started in a 4-4-2 diamond (which worked with the roster), then switched to a 4-4-2 flat (to overcome Mexico dominating the corners of the field). Problem with that is putting Jones on the wing - he is NOT a winger. I wouldn't say Zardes is too slow to counter. I would say it seems we had no plan to counter or know exactly how to counter.

2) Another new defense: I like the four individual players, but Johnson just isn't the same on the right. The bigger problem is none of our defenders are familiar playing together. This has been an issue for a long time now.

Yup. Besler and Cameron should have been the starting CB duo starting since Brazil.

3) Subs too late: Yedlin and Wood both made a impact, but too late. Where were they at the 60 minute mark? Yedlin was the first sub in the 78th. We were playing poorly again, so where was the urgency? If the manager doesn't sense the moment, how will the players?

Agreed. Strange timing for subs. I don't think I saw Dempsey sprint after the 30th minute - seemed not interested in defending/pressing.

4) Double Loss: Klinsmann earlier this year said the bar for success should be qualifying for the Olympics and Confederations Cup. Yesterday, not only did the full team lose to Mexico, the U23s lost to Honduras. Now we need to beat Canada Tuesday, then win a one game playoff with Colombia in Brazil to reach the Olympics. Klinsmann set two goals and we failed in both.

5) Lack of aggression: We equalized after 6 minutes and 12 minutes. If that ability was there, why not play to win throughout? Conceding possession is fine, but you need to show the ability to threaten. We only did that when we were down.

More thoughts that I agree with, per twitter:

"Tonight might be OK if last year had unearthed a new generation of int'l talent. The page was supposed to be turned. It was, just backward."

"I hope this doesn't change your view on Klinsmann. You like him, cool, you don't, fine, but today doesn't change him or his body of work."

On keeping Klins around:

"1. If Bradley + Dempsey are part of WC 2018 roster (yes, I think US qualifies), you need to figure out their roles. Don't exist/work now."

"2. No more U12 soccer backline panic clearances back to opposition. Start attack from back, like you preach. Find guys who do that."

"3. If Jozy is a designated holding 9, that's fine. But someone's gotta run off that. Attacking runs are lacking and unimaginative."

"4. Beckerman needs replaced as 6. Yesterday. Gave a solid career, but he doesn't have it anymore. Wanna increase possession? Start there."

"5. Klinsmann needs to identify a system & players for that system + stick w it. I have no idea what he's trying to accomplish game to game."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 11, 2015, 04:15:48 PM
We agree on some points, but Bradley has opportunities to do so much more...he's disappointing considering the talent.  He's just not a finisher at the level he should be.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 11, 2015, 04:19:54 PM
We agree on some points, but Bradley has opportunities to do so much more...he's disappointing considering the talent.  He's just not a finisher at the level he should be.

I am a big Bradley fan. That being said, he's a box-to-box midfielder. JK has, I believe, been using him incorrectly almost his entire tenure. Bradley makes the first pass to spring attacks and has the vision to do so. He can occasionally win a one-on-one. He can put in great FKs. But he's not a finisher/goal scorer/attacker, IMO.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 11, 2015, 05:06:15 PM
Bradley's problem under Klinsmann has always been misuse. Remember how disappointed everyone was with him in Brazil? He ran more than any other player. Poor guy was exhausted and his mistakes were usually a result of being told to be our attacking 10 and our defending 6 at the same time, covering for lapses on both ends. That hasn't changed. Bradley disappoints because he's expected to be everywhere and do everything. Then he has a night like last night where he creates two goals and it still isn't enough.

As far as Zardes' speed, I'd say he has striker speed. He's quick enough to run onto a ball or make the quick reaction plays, but not the speed to make a 70 yard run and still dribble and cross at pace like we've seen Yedlin, Johnson, Bedoya, or Donovan do in the past. That's why he plays forward for Galaxy, and why like Bradley and Jones, he's misused by Klinsmann.

It amazes me that Klinsmann is so set with "his guys". It happens to every coach, and it's why I favor only giving a manager one cycle regardless of success, but it sure happened fast with JK. Guys like Dempsey, Beckerman, and Jones continue to play no matter how clearly others have passed them by. Klinsmann is playing the "big picture" card, but his job as a manager is to win TODAY. That's why the dual coach/technical director roles don't work. They conflict because one needs to look at ever day as do or die and the other needs to look at things in terms of years, cycles, and decades.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 11, 2015, 05:23:44 PM
You guys understand now why during the World Cup I said we are not elite and have a LONG way to go?

We're better than we were two decades ago, but honestly we're a significant cut below the best.  Thing is, Mexico isn't even that good.  We got blown by Brazil a few weeks ago and Brazil is not playing at the level they need to be at in a few years.

We're a pretty good to good program, that currently is not playing well.  We have a LONG way to go.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 11, 2015, 10:27:40 PM
Brew, I don't dislike Bradley, I just feel like he comes up short on what he is capable of.  He is a solid player, one of our better players.  Wonderful at set pieces.  That service into the box last night was in front of the goal I was at...beautiful placement.  Earlier this year I saw him score on a corner kick against Panama.

Yes, he may be playing out of position, but he's capable of doing it.  What frustrates me with him over the years are the point blank opportunities that he panics on and kicks right at the goalie or flubs badly.  Last night, several chances after really good moves to put the ball on net, and his finish is just so average....missing very wide.  Perhaps he just isn't capable of it, but it feels to me that he is and just hasn't executed at times akin to someone of his skill set.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 12, 2015, 01:00:14 AM
I just don't see it. He's a midfielder, not a striker. And plenty of strikers put balls right at the keeper or wide of the target too. Hell, I remember one forward saying his plan was always to aim at the keeper and hope he missed.

Bradley has 15 NT goals, third among non-forwards. He is a brilliant passer and maybe the best I've ever seen in a USA shirt at dropping a ball onto a runner's feet from a deep position. He is everything Kyle Beckerman isn't, but what he isn't is an attacking mid.

Changing positions is hard. Clint did it, going from winger to forward, but it only worked because Fulham initiated the move. Dempsey had a ton of growing pains but developed into a legitimate starting striker in the Prem. It took a good 2-3 seasons to really perfect the change. And that's training every day at that position. Klinsmann gets what, 4-6 weeks per year with his players? It's absolutely ludicrous to think a NT manager could initiate that change. There just isn't time.

Could Bradley become an attacking mid? Maybe. With constant training at a club level, after a few years of dedicated effort, maybe he could become an attacking mid. But with a few weeks a year? No. The notion is preposterous and underscores why Klinsmann is a terribly clueless manager and is doing more to set our program back than he is to move it forward.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on October 12, 2015, 09:36:37 AM
Jones, Beckerman, and Bradley are a terrible combination. They are basically all central midfielders. There was no width on the offense or defense.

Jozy looked bad too.

Klinsmann plays guys out of position, hasn't developed youth, and has no consistency of formation or squad rotation. The results are no better than Bradley or Arena.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 12, 2015, 09:54:52 AM
Jones, Beckerman, and Bradley are a terrible combination. They are basically all central midfielders. There was no width on the offense or defense.

Jozy looked bad too.

Klinsmann plays guys out of position, hasn't developed youth, and has no consistency of formation or squad rotation. The results are no better than Bradley or Arena.

Klinsmann just doesn't seem to know any other way. 15 months ago, Beckerman, Bradley, and Jones were instrumental in our run to the Round of 16. Now two of them are past it and the other is clearly not as effective further up the pitch, yet he can't see it. Baffling.

What irks me is the results seem to actually be worse under Klinsmann. We have now lost 3 consecutive competitive games on home soil against CONCACAF teams (Jamaica, Panama, Mexico). We have missed out on chances to automatically qualify for competitions that Klinsmann said we needed to qualify for (Olympics and Confed Cup).

Our official record since the end of the World Cup is 10W/5D/7L. However, if you include the added time losses against Panama and Mexico, that drops to 10W/3D/9L. In non-friendly games during that same time, we are 3W/3D/1L, but with the added time, it's 3W/1D/3L. All of those are on home soil against CONCACAF teams. That's a pretty sobering record no matter how you slice it. Yes, there are friendly wins over Netherlands, Germany, and Mexico in there, but when all your highlights are friendlies, it's not a good thing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on October 12, 2015, 10:16:40 AM
By the way, here are your stats for USA-Mexico

Close to 2x the number of shots, with a higher percentage of them on target by Mexico.

(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee41/roblowe14/usa%20mexico.png) (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/roblowe14/media/usa%20mexico.png.html)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 12, 2015, 10:01:15 PM
By the way, here are your stats for USA-Mexico

Close to 2x the number of shots, with a higher percentage of them on target by Mexico.

(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee41/roblowe14/usa%20mexico.png) (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/roblowe14/media/usa%20mexico.png.html)

Many of us at the game were surprised the US was even in the game.  We just aren't that great, and nowhere near elite.  I'm heavily skepitcal we EVER will be.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 12, 2015, 10:42:26 PM
Many of us at the game were surprised the US was even in the game.  We just aren't that great, and nowhere near elite.  I'm heavily skepitcal we EVER will be.

We aren't managed that great. Our player pool it's better than it's ever been. Anyone saying otherwise is either buying Klinsmann's BS or making excuses for him.

Fabian Johnson was sent home from the international camp today after a series of arguments with Klinsmann. JK accused him of faking his injury Saturday. It's clear he's lost the locker room. There's no way this can be fixed. Every day Klinsmann remains in charge is another step back for the program.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 12, 2015, 10:46:46 PM
At least he finally called in Nguyen, right?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 12, 2015, 11:44:17 PM
We aren't managed that great. Our player pool it's better than it's ever been. Anyone saying otherwise is either buying Klinsmann's BS or making excuses for him.

Fabian Johnson was sent home from the international camp today after a series of arguments with Klinsmann. JK accused him of faking his injury Saturday. It's clear he's lost the locker room. There's no way this can be fixed. Every day Klinsmann remains in charge is another step back for the program.

Player pool is better, but not elite.  We have more depth, but we don't have stars, we don't have creators.  I said it last time, will say it again...this US team, even the one that went to the round of 16, there were only 2 to 4 players that could even make a roster on the top 12 teams, and most of those that could would be riding the pine.

We have a long long long way to go to be elite, and I don't think we are getting there anytime soon. We may have 350 million people, many from soccer crazy nations in terms of lineage, but we don't yet have the volume of next level players to be elite.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 12, 2015, 11:57:34 PM
A good take on current state of USSF/USMNT: http://www.bigsoccer.com/blog/2015/10/11/concacaf-cup-mexico-trumps-us



Quote
That was fun.

Oh, come on.  Sure, we lost.  We've done that before.  You thought we'd never lose ever again? Did you want nothing but beautiful, breathtaking soccer played by the world's finest performers?  Wrong national team, my friend.

Okay, we lost to the Enemy. Maybe it was the soft bigotry of expectations that had fallen down the mineshaft, but we came back against the Enemy.  Twice.  With a bad lineup playing badly.

We made this game an unofficial referendum on the Klinsmann regime, we devoted USMNT fans.  This has made us thoughtful, perhaps even opinionated. So it's nice to remember why we became fans of this kicky sporty thing in the first place.  There are two huge and important positives I believe every fan can take away from this.

The never give up, never surrender, never say die spirit?  The one that, depending on your point of view, either exemplifies the best of the United States of America, or is a comforting myth that masks our inadequacies?  Well, it's nice to see that's still around.  I thought we'd mislaid it sometime around the Brazil game.

That's really what I ask from our team.  I don't watch the US to see Juergen Klinsmann coach - boy, do I not ever.

If you don't believe that's important, well, look at you being all intelligent and sophisticated.  Suppose, however, that this was your first rodeo.  I'm honestly jealous of the people who had never seen a USMNT game before now, because this is one I'd put in the rotation.  Just for the cowboy myth of it all.  No, we didn't win in the end.  That's the lesson - this isn't the end.  This isn't even the beginning.

Those new fans are in for a rough ride, but they'll come back, every last one of them.  That's why we do.

More important, though, is the number of fans we have nowadays.  We can go back twenty or thirty years to put this in perspective if we feel like it, but we only have to go back to 2011.  There was a sizeable and loud section of US support, in Los Angeles County, against Mexico.  That's a milestone, my friends.  One of a series we've had over fifteen years of uninterrupted fan growth.

No, it wasn't 50-50, or even 60-40 in the Rose Bowl.  Any more than soccer has passed basketball or baseball in the United States.  At this point, those would be nice, but not necessary.  Whenever or whatever the tipping point was, it was pointed and tipped.  The US national teams - both of them - have become sustainable, self-perpetuating, going concerns with a permanent and growing fan base.  Nothing is going to unring the toothpaste now.

We've allowed Juergen Klinsmann to overshadow the US national team program.  But the program and the fans are strong, and will get stronger.  Klinsmann hasn't even slowed that down.  This too will pass, even if right now our midfield can't.

Of course Klinsmann has failed.  And, of course, those of us who run the US Soccer Federation while teaching economics at Columbia will go to great lengths not to see this.  But this game was both a fun night of soccer entertainment and a fan support breakthrough.  Klinsmann can't stop either.

The negatives don't outweigh these positives.  Failing to qualify for the World Cup would be the only thing that would, but even Klinsmann can't screw that up.  Not now that Mexico hired the genius behind this.  We'll be fine.

Where do we go from here?

We don't.  We follow and support.  Whether Klinsmann gets fired or not is not our call.  And, bluntly, if you want to boycott this team's directionless incompetence, you'll miss out on some fun - but more to the point, there will be others to replace you.  Might as well get with the program.

Okay, that's silly and unfair.  Has Juergen Klinsmann not undertaken to educate us?  Shall we not then express what we have learned, in a free and healthy exchange of ideas?  We sure as heck shall.  But I do want to make the point that at this point, results - short of failure to qualify for Russia - will not remove Klinsmann.

Look at it this way.  Suppose instead of a classic wonder goal, Paul Aguilar bounced his shot off Joe Bruin, Brad Guzan ends us proving he's a better keeper than I've Already Forgotten His Name Because Let's Face It We're Not Seeing Him Again, and we're off to the Confederations Cup.  Would that have made Klinsmann a good coach?  Would that have proven us sensible folk wrong?  Would we have had to put up with a carnival of "I told you so" from the misguided?  Like heck.  So it's unfair to take this close, exciting result and use it as a rhetorical club.  Not when our club closet is already amply supplied.

Now, for all I know, Sunil Gulati will celebrate Columbus Crew Day with an epiphany, and tomorrow at this time Juergen Klinsmann will resign to spend more time with Preki's family.  Consider this admission of the possibility a retraction in case it happens, because I'll have died of surprise.

What happens next is up to Michael Bradley.  He is our only remaining star, and the one man Klinsmann can not, will not, and should not drop.  He's the only proven performer in his physical prime, and among the things he has proven is his willingness to perform as hard for the man who replaced his father as for his own father.  That's literally Shakespearian.

What Bradley will need to do, then, is take the "lineups" and "tactics" Klinsmann presents to him, and make them work.  It will be a tedious and literally thankless job, but someone has to - and we're extremely lucky we now have someone like Bradley around.

Clint Dempsey is losing his epic rap battle with Father Time, Jermaine Jones started on the damn wing, and DaMarcus Beasley's replacement turned out to be DaMarcus Beasley.  When you saw that lineup, how much did you think Mexico was going to win by?  I thought 4-0, easy.

Maybe you think someone besides Bradley held that team together, especially after the first goal.  That's fine.  I'm not here to tell you what to think.

Anyway, if Bradley can do it in that situation, he can do it against the cupcakier of CONCACAF opponents.  We're not going unbeaten, but no one does in CONCACAF.  Bradley will get us through to Russia, and after that - well, it's the draw, and injuries, and God knows what else.

That's what happens on the field.  It will be a lot more exciting than it will be beautiful.  This is the US men's national team, I assume you've met?

Off the field - well, I feel like the voice in the wilderness, or at least the voice in Disney's Wilderness Lodge.  But the time will come when we realize that national team coach and technical director are two full-time jobs that should be held by two different people.  Those two people will have to agree on many things.  But the duty of growing the talent pool, and the duty of getting results out of the existing talent pool, are both so different and so onerous that the idea of combining the two would be the product of, I don't know, a celebrity soccer egotist and a surprisingly gullible economics professor in a mutual fit of highly wishful thinking.

Klinsmann's surprisingly numerous, noisy and tiresome defenders point to the importance of his work as technical director, because his work as national team coach, regrettably, screams at the top of its lungs for itself.  There's of course as gaping a lack of tangible success as technical director as there is in national team results. However, because the US technical director job has been defined so intangibly, defenders have joyfully created and projected all sorts of magical fantasies upon it.  We can sum up these fables under the umbrella term "changing the culture."

The most generous thing we can say about "changing the culture" is that, to hear Klinsmann's defenders tell it, the job is so monstrously challenging that Hercules himself would take another try at the tables.  So why is it a part-time job, again?

To my admittedly skeptical ears, defenders of Klinsmann's efforts to "change the culture" sound so hollow as to bring into question the need for a single technical director for United States soccer in the first place.  Allow me to elaborate.

What will undoubtedly change the culture - continue to change the culture - is what is happening before our eyes.  The new fans we see at every game, and at every event, is what changes the culture.  This isn't intangible.  The new fans will spend money that will go into the national team program.  The new fans will make national team players rich(er) and (more) famous.  This will generate a larger pool of athletes enthusiastic about making a living at a fun game, which will slow down the "What if our best athletes played croquet?" hand-wringing.

Some of those new fans will become such great fans that they expand their fanning to their local club.  That local club, whether MLS or NPSL, will have more bucks to improve the game experience - which means more bucks.  Some of those bucks will find their way to development, because someone's gotta play.  More teams and more players playing more games will...and so on.  Now, show me where Klinsmann even enters into this, let alone where he's indispensable.

Maybe Klinsmann's contribution to "changing the culture" is him reaching out to existing coaches in America.  Am I going to sit here and say asking Klinsmann to teach coaches how to coach is like asking Dracula to teach courses on suntanning?  I sure am.

The USSDA has a Digital Coaching Center, with World Cup winners Juergen Klinsmann and Jill Ellis front and center.  I can't wait to give it a try.  I could use refreshers on Throwing Players Under the Bus and Asking Abby Politely If She Could Pretty Please Consider Coming In As A Sub.

The larger point is that Klinsmann and Ellis are extremely different people with extremely different coaching styles.  Do we teach One Culture?  If so, how?  If not, then where's the point of a technical director?

These, fortunately, are problems for the future - a future that will, at worst, look like today.  The floor is higher than ever before.  That's not comforting when you're face down on that floor in a puddle of your own sick, granted.  But the view will be great when we get back on our feet.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 13, 2015, 09:07:36 AM
As usual, trying to be too smart obscures a simple reality. The US played a road game, went down a goal twice, recovered twice, and lost on a (literally) last minute side winder that misses 99 other times. crap happens.

Besides, a meaningless game doesn't deserve hand-wringing of any kind.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 13, 2015, 09:15:42 AM
Yeah that was a good article.  Especially this:

"What happens next is up to Michael Bradley.  He is our only remaining star, and the one man Klinsmann can not, will not, and should not drop.  He's the only proven performer in his physical prime, and among the things he has proven is his willingness to perform as hard for the man who replaced his father as for his own father."

I guess as a relative soccer newbie, I see this as a pretty simple exercise.  When I see more than a handful of Americans playing key roles in the top European leagues, then I think we should be more competitive.  I just don't think we have the talent to do so right now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 13, 2015, 09:42:21 AM
As usual, trying to be too smart obscures a simple reality. The US played a road game, went down a goal twice, recovered twice, and lost on a (literally) last minute side winder that misses 99 other times. crap happens.

Besides, a meaningless game doesn't deserve hand-wringing of any kind.

A, it wasn't meaningless.

B, it says something when the US team plays in the US and it is a road game by massive proportions

C, Mexico isn't that good and we were outplayed all game.  Don't let the score fool you.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 13, 2015, 11:06:50 AM
A, it wasn't meaningless.

B, it says something when the US team plays in the US and it is a road game by massive proportions

C, Mexico isn't that good and we were outplayed all game.  Don't let the score fool you.

A. True-ish. Bruce arena said earlier that the gold/confed cup really don't matter. He's right, the world cup is what matters. But klins said it was one of his goals, so he should be held accountable.

B. All that says is the USSF wants $$$. They could have played in KC, Colorado, Columbus, etc and had more fans.

C. Mexico is in flux right now. We were outplayed and were still in the game with an old/out of sync lineup. That's says something. (Doesn't say we're anywhere near elite though)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 13, 2015, 11:13:47 AM
Regarding (B), didn't Concacaf choose the venue?  My guess is that that Rose Bowl was the choice because...

1. It's huge...meaning a bunch of tickets would be sold.
2. It's in the United State
3. Would have a huge Mexican contingent. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 13, 2015, 11:18:18 AM
Regarding (B), didn't Concacaf choose the venue?  My guess is that that Rose Bowl was the choice because...

1. It's huge...meaning a bunch of tickets would be sold.
2. It's in the United State
3. Would have a huge Mexican contingent.

Not sure. Good point though. Either way, that selection was all about $$$
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on October 13, 2015, 11:19:20 AM
A good take on current state of USSF/USMNT: http://www.bigsoccer.com/blog/2015/10/11/concacaf-cup-mexico-trumps-us

My only beef with this article is that it still sets the bar of expectations as "qualify for the WC". The US has been doing that for decades.

We should expect more by now. We were promised more.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: PaintTouches on October 13, 2015, 11:24:19 AM
Regarding (B), didn't Concacaf choose the venue?  My guess is that that Rose Bowl was the choice because...

1. It's huge...meaning a bunch of tickets would be sold.
2. It's in the United State
3. Would have a huge Mexican contingent.

CONCACAF chose the venue to maximize $$ and try to balance fan bases. If Jamaica would have won the Gold Cup. It would have been held in Red Bull Arena in NJ.

Obviously there were going to be more Mexico fans, but other than Columbus or Portland, that would have been the case everywhere. With the Rose Bowl, they all get to siphon a bit more cash.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on October 13, 2015, 03:14:33 PM
CONCACAF chose the venue to maximize $$ and try to balance fan bases. If Jamaica would have won the Gold Cup. It would have been held in Red Bull Arena in NJ.

Obviously there were going to be more Mexico fans, but other than Columbus or Portland, that would have been the case everywhere. With the Rose Bowl, they all get to siphon a bit more cash.

If they held it in Seattle it would have been a massively pro-US crowd, and they would have packed the house (listed at 67,000 - Sounders this year draw on average 43,000 - World Cup Qualifier for a weekday game drew 40,000 in 2013 against Panama). 

But agree to your point, larger crowd at the Rose Bowl, and at most other big city venues, would have been more Mexican support (Dallas, San Antonio, Phoenix, Chicago, NY, Philadelphia, DC)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 14, 2015, 08:48:00 AM
A. True-ish. Bruce arena said earlier that the gold/confed cup really don't matter. He's right, the world cup is what matters. But klins said it was one of his goals, so he should be held accountable.

B. All that says is the USSF wants $$$. They could have played in KC, Colorado, Columbus, etc and had more fans.

C. Mexico is in flux right now. We were outplayed and were still in the game with an old/out of sync lineup. That's says something. (Doesn't say we're anywhere near elite though)

Point is, it isn't meaningless.  100K people don't show up for a meaningless game.  If we had won, it puts us in the Confederations Cup. 

Yes, $$$ drives the selection.  But again, shows how imporant soccer is in this country to Americans...not very.  Sure, we get excited every 4 years. That isn't enough, not if we want to be an elite program.

US lost on home soil again last night, in what truly is a meaningless game in a half filled stadium at Red Bull.  Lost to Costa Rica.

We have a long long long way to go.


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 14, 2015, 09:41:01 AM
In March, I was told repeatedly that the wins over Germany and the Netherlands were meaningless. Suddenly, in October, meaningless games now have meaning. I mean, people think having meaning over not over meaning is meaning something but I'm not sure it means anything.
 
Bob Bradley lead the US to epic collapse in the 2009 final and returned the next summer to a Round of 16 berth. The US didn't participate in the 2013 tournament and arrived the next summer to a Round of 16 berth.

In the grand scheme, the Confederations Cup means jacksquat. Thus, last Friday's game was meaningless for the US. Much more important for the Mexican federation with their 78th coach coming in over the last decade.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on October 14, 2015, 10:09:47 AM
Point is, it isn't meaningless.  100K people don't show up for a meaningless game.  If we had won, it puts us in the Confederations Cup. 

Yes, $$$ drives the selection.  But again, shows how imporant soccer is in this country to Americans...not very.  Sure, we get excited every 4 years. That isn't enough, not if we want to be an elite program.

US lost on home soil again last night, in what truly is a meaningless game in a half filled stadium at Red Bull.  Lost to Costa Rica.

We have a long long long way to go.

To be completely fair, Red Bull arena always has trouble getting filled, even for the team that is in the lead for the Supporter's Shield.

That loss last night was awful.  Not only lost, but were completely outplayed and outworked.  Brek Shea looked awful, Danny Williams was terrible.  Altidore and Zardes completely ineffective.  Yedlin had some decent runs, but was sloppy on the ball.

The only bright spots for me last night were Tim Ream and Timmy Howard.  A few other subs were ok (Wood, Mix, Nguyen).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on October 14, 2015, 10:13:51 AM
In March, I was told repeatedly that the wins over Germany and the Netherlands were meaningless. Suddenly, in October, meaningless games now have meaning. I mean, people think having meaning over not over meaning is meaning something but I'm not sure it means anything.
 
Bob Bradley lead the US to epic collapse in the 2009 final and returned the next summer to a Round of 16 berth. The US didn't participate in the 2013 tournament and arrived the next summer to a Round of 16 berth.

In the grand scheme, the Confederations Cup means jacksquat. Thus, last Friday's game was meaningless for the US. Much more important for the Mexican federation with their 78th coach coming in over the last decade.

This.  Those games against Germany and the Netherlands have now been completely forgotten.

I'm definitely not a Klinnsman supporter, but unless there is an absolute homerun out there, I don't see a reason to get rid of him yet.  Now, if WC qualifying starts to go very, very poorly, then we may have to make a change.

That said, I would not call last Saturday's game against Mexico meaningless at all.  The Confederations Cup is a great opportunity to play against top competition and really get revved up for the World Cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 14, 2015, 10:19:56 AM
In March, I was told repeatedly that the wins over Germany and the Netherlands were meaningless. Suddenly, in October, meaningless games now have meaning. I mean, people think having meaning over not over meaning is meaning something but I'm not sure it means anything.
 
Bob Bradley lead the US to epic collapse in the 2009 final and returned the next summer to a Round of 16 berth. The US didn't participate in the 2013 tournament and arrived the next summer to a Round of 16 berth.

In the grand scheme, the Confederations Cup means jacksquat. Thus, last Friday's game was meaningless for the US. Much more important for the Mexican federation with their 78th coach coming in over the last decade.

Those games were meaningless...they were friendlies against teams that weren't ginned up to play us.

How can you say Saturday's game is meaningless compared to a friendly?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 14, 2015, 10:24:54 AM
Playing in the Confederations Cup is better than not playing in it.

Therefore it has meaning.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on October 14, 2015, 11:08:54 AM
Legit analysis

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/10/14/armchair-analyst-more-problems-no-solutions-us-national-team-after-loss-costa-rica

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 14, 2015, 11:40:59 AM
Legit analysis

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/10/14/armchair-analyst-more-problems-no-solutions-us-national-team-after-loss-costa-rica

I agree with much of what he said. US/Klins seem to have no plan right now. No fundamental understanding/structure of what they want to do and how they want to do it. Sad.

My lineup would look like this:

Guzan
Yedlin-Besler-Cameron-Ream
McCarty/Trapp (maybe Polster)
F. Johnson-Bradley-Bedoya
Nguyen
Wood
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 14, 2015, 06:38:56 PM
I posted this on Big Soccer today:

   

    In the Costa Rica match last night, Stuart Holden made a brilliant observation that largely went unnoticed because as he was coming to the climax of his point, Costa Rica scored and the discussion turned back to the events on the pitch. Here's the quote:

Quote from: Stuart Holden
"You bring up Costa Rica, I think they're a wonderful example. For people who want to argue 'the United States doesn't have the players', well then find a tactical gameplan that suits your players. Costa Rica went to the World Cup Ian, look at the likes they played. They got to the quarterfinals with a tactical gameplan."

    For me, this is the crux of the problem with our team at the moment. We aren't playing with tactics that suit our players. The backline changes on a match-by-match basis. Players are moved between positions like the manager is playing a shell game. The shape of the team is rarely static from half-to-half, much less match-to-match. All of this is a problem.

    For all their faults, Bruce Arena and Bob Bradley largely understood what we are as a nation and how to win with the players they have. I understand Klinsmann is promising a new way of playing, but you simply can't turn Gyasi Zardes into Cristiano Ronaldo or Michael Bradley into Lionel Messi by wishing it were so.

    The national team manager's job is to utilize the players he has to the best of his ability and maximize the results with those players. Developing talent, tinkering with positions, increasing fitness, all of those are jobs of the club manager. The national team manager simply doesn't have enough time with the players to fix all those things in the few weeks per year he is given. And this is why it is time for Klinsmann to go. He simply doesn't have the tactical acumen to get the most out of this crop of players. Whether it's the wrong manager, the wrong time, or the wrong group of players, the simple reality is this mixture does not work right now.

    For all the promises of attacking football, Klinsmann bunkers down more than Bob Bradley did, but by constantly changing the back line and the midfielders in front of them, there is no chemistry, no consistency, and thus no real chance of winning. Since the World Cup, we have seen a rotating door of defenders and a growing dysfunction both on and off the pitch. When it was Donovan, it was only one guy getting the shaft, and many Americans thought it was a bold maverick move that should be applauded. But since then, we've seen Matt Besler and Fabian Johnson, both among our best players in Brazil, ostracized by the manager. We've seen our manager blame cast at the players, the refs, the short turnaround between games, and pretty much everything but himself.

    Our manager has consistently shown he is good at pointing the finger, but when it comes to actually answering the hard questions, like "how do we win?", he doesn't have a response. The answer is simple. Accept what we are, embrace the positives of the deepest talent pool USA Soccer has ever had, and create chemistry and consistency rather than tearing down both by deliberately promoting disruption on and off the pitch.

    I know there will be some trepidation in changing now, before the World Cup Qualifying starts, but the alternative of waiting is worse. Just about any manager should be able to motivate the team to a win over St. Vincent & the Grenadines at home, and even if we were to lose at Trinidad & Tobago, we could absorb one negative result early in this group. The manager would face those two tests early, then have 4 months to prepare before the next qualifier, plenty of time to get his feet under him a bit and have a viable plan for what will be a crucial two games with Guatemala in the span of a week in March.
     

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on October 14, 2015, 08:14:21 PM
If they made a decision to get rid of Klinnsman, you could simply name Tab Ramos the interim right now and make a permanent hire after the November break.  After then they don't get back together until March.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 14, 2015, 08:20:37 PM
He's here through at least the first round of CONCACAF qualifying.

Only question I have, if JK is out, is Sunil out too? If Sunil isn't out, how much do you trust him to make a good hire?

Edit: If JK goes, let's wait until Mourinho is fired so we can get him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 15, 2015, 08:51:47 AM
Right now, I really want Peter Vermes for the role. I think he's perfect when you look at what he's done at Sporting KC. While others break the bank for big name designated players, Vermes has shown consistent results with only two designated players, and both Matt Besler and Graham Zusi were guys that Vermes drafted in 2009 and have played their entire careers at SKC.

He's won an Open Cup and MLS Cup and was also capped 66 times as a USA international. He knows MLS as well as anyone out there and has the tactics both offensively and defensively to get the most out of our players. He isn't the sexy name, but he knows the player pool and knows how players in this country think and are motivated. He's shown he can win with the pieces he is given, not needing to splash cash for points.

And personally, while I'd love to have Vermes in the chair, I'd just as much like to see him gone by August 2018. One cycle is enough for any national team manager.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 15, 2015, 09:06:03 AM
This.  Those games against Germany and the Netherlands have now been completely forgotten.


Some of us never bought into them in the first place and took a few shots for not drinking the koolaid.

The Germans and Dutch didn't give a whoop about those games, where we brought our A game and people thought we were in the conversation.  Fool's gold then as stated. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on October 15, 2015, 09:26:03 AM
Klinsmann does need to go at this point.  I agree with Brew's overall point, that you have to play tactically with what you have not what you hope to have.

Where I agree with Klinsmann and hope we continue to follow this route, is develop the type of players you want within the US system that will be acceptable to the overall US plan of attack within international soccer.  However, that can be done independent of the here and now and independent of how the manager deploys the players he/she has.

We need to make the change now, and we need someone who can take the current pieces plus next 2-3 years of up and coming talent and create a system that utilizes that talent as it is.  I'm as big a Jurgen apologist as there is, but it's time to go.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 15, 2015, 09:31:30 AM
Some of us never bought into them in the first place and took a few shots for not drinking the koolaid.

The Germans and Dutch didn't give a whoop about those games, where we brought our A game and people thought we were in the conversation.  Fool's gold then as stated.

Its admirable how you keep bringing up conjecture and opinion as fact
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on October 15, 2015, 11:30:36 AM
Some of us never bought into them in the first place and took a few shots for not drinking the koolaid.

The Germans and Dutch didn't give a whoop about those games, where we brought our A game and people thought we were in the conversation.  Fool's gold then as stated.

Now, I'm quite aware these were both friendlies, but just dismissing the results in this game is ridiculous.

1) "The Germans and Dutch didn't give a whoop about these games" - this could be the case, but what support do you have on this?

2) "We brought our A game" - yes a few of our regular starters played, but I wouldn't call our roster over there as "Our A Game".  Especially from when those games took place.  Maybe looking back on this game, and how some of the other players have fared since then, sure you can make an argument, but I wouldn't call a roster that didn't include Altidore, Dempsey, J. Jones, Cameron, Besler, Ream, Howard, and Bedoya as our "A Game".
2a) That roster was (at the time) full of guys just getting their feet wet with the national team (Brooks, Alvarado, Morales, Zardes, Ibarra, Danny Williams, Morris, Wood)

3) The Germans and Dutch didn't play their absolute best rosters, true.  But they didn't play scrubs.  Consider:
Netherlands:  Cillessen, Martins Indi, Blind, van Persie, Wijnaldum, Clasie were all starters in the World Cup and in that game, and Sneijder, Luuk de Jong were subbed on, Memphis Depay started.  This wasn't a scrub team.
Germany: starters Zieler, Mustafi, Schweinsteiger, Ozil, Shurrle, and Gotze were all on the World Cup Roster (all but Zieler having impacts in the WC) and with Khedira and Podolski subbing on.  You can't say this is a scrub team either.

4) These games were both true road games.

Now, I'm not saying these results should save Klinnsman's job or anything.  But to outright dismiss these results is silly and short-sighted.  And in my mind, I'd like to see more of some of these players in the WCQ matches (Wood, Morris, etc.)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 15, 2015, 12:30:49 PM
http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/10/12/usa-mexico-tactics-concacaf-cup-jurgen-klinsmann-ferretti

Excellent tactical analysis
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on October 15, 2015, 01:02:16 PM
http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/10/12/usa-mexico-tactics-concacaf-cup-jurgen-klinsmann-ferretti

Excellent tactical analysis

I enjoy any analysis that uses GIFs.

Top marks
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 15, 2015, 11:14:14 PM
Its admirable how you keep bringing up conjecture and opinion as fact

No different than those saying we were knocking on the doorstep and beating these teams meant something. 

In my opinion, it didn't.  Fool's gold.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 21, 2015, 10:07:21 PM
http://www.americansoccernow.com/articles/a-tale-of-two-klinsmanns-technical-director-and-coach

Thoughts on this article?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on October 22, 2015, 09:37:24 AM
http://www.americansoccernow.com/articles/a-tale-of-two-klinsmanns-technical-director-and-coach

Thoughts on this article?

I think it's more interesting to read in the context of this article from Grant Wahl

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/10/21/jurgen-klinsmann-us-soccer-jay-berhalter-jason-kreis-vieira-nycfc

Setting aside the gossip of Berhalter and Klinsmann and talk of a power struggle, I find it interesting that Berhalter has been doing a lot of the TD role. If that's the case, then how much credit do we really assign Klinsmann?

Having said that, I don't mind the author's analysis that there are options and reasons to keep Klinsmann on as coach with some changes made.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 14, 2016, 04:37:03 PM
Well, unsurprisingly, even with a new staff entirely below the owner, the Fire manage to totally choke on draft day.

unnatural carnal knowledge.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on January 31, 2016, 03:18:02 PM
Watching the USA-Iceland friendly....can anyone tell me what Gyasi Zardes does well? I'm not a frequent viewer of MLS and he has yet to impress me in a USA jersey. Seems to just consistently give the ball away.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on January 31, 2016, 08:53:21 PM
Who's excited that we beat a country whose population is less than a fifth of the Milwaukee metropolitan area's?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on January 31, 2016, 09:11:57 PM
Who's excited that we beat a country whose population is less than a fifth of the Milwaukee metropolitan area's?

Hey, the 1,432 people who attended were happy when they left the stadium. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on February 01, 2016, 10:38:10 AM
Well, unsurprisingly, even with a new staff entirely below the owner, the Fire manage to totally choke on draft day.

unnatural carnal knowledge.

Late response, but I could not disagree with you more. I think the Fire had a great draft.

They picked up the top RB in the draft, who could have been drafted #1 overall. They got the most pro-ready CB in the draft. For both of those positions, they drafted on need and improved the back line.

Plus, they scored a bunch of additional GarberBucks with the wheeling and dealing, which they can now use to improve their international signings.

Nelson and Pauno had a plan and executed on it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on February 01, 2016, 02:18:47 PM
Watching the USA-Iceland friendly....can anyone tell me what Gyasi Zardes does well? I'm not a frequent viewer of MLS and he has yet to impress me in a USA jersey. Seems to just consistently give the ball away.

I'm with you on this one.  Zardes, to me, is a nice player who is quite athletic, but really doesn't do a whole lot too well.  He is a guy that we should have had years ago when some of our teams were less talented.

However, when watching yesterday's game, Jozy actually played well (this was great to see), Morris and Kiesewetter impressed, I liked what I saw out of Lee Nguyen, and Clint Dempsey and Bobby Wood weren't there.

I don't see much reason for Zardes to get the playing time he currently is.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on February 01, 2016, 02:21:14 PM
Late response, but I could not disagree with you more. I think the Fire had a great draft.

They picked up the top RB in the draft, who could have been drafted #1 overall. They got the most pro-ready CB in the draft. For both of those positions, they drafted on need and improved the back line.

Plus, they scored a bunch of additional GarberBucks with the wheeling and dealing, which they can now use to improve their international signings.

Nelson and Pauno had a plan and executed on it.

NYCFC fan here, I agree with you.  I thought the Fire had a solid draft.  They ended up with the best LB in the draft (one who left the combine to join the USMNT Camp), and Campbell was a solid pickup as well.  Add in the extra $ they got from my team, they have some additional spending power. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 01, 2016, 02:43:17 PM
Late response, but I could not disagree with you more. I think the Fire had a great draft.

They picked up the top RB in the draft, who could have been drafted #1 overall. They got the most pro-ready CB in the draft. For both of those positions, they drafted on need and improved the back line.

Plus, they scored a bunch of additional GarberBucks with the wheeling and dealing, which they can now use to improve their international signings.

Nelson and Pauno had a plan and executed on it.

They traded the #1 overall, the #1 allocation pick and joevin Jones for 3 lower picks and cash.

Whether or not Yaro (who, if they kept the pick, they would have taken) ends up being great is TBD. Yes, they got significantly younger. But I'm still not convinced they "won" in all their dealings. Of course, the big unknown is the funny money they received. How they spend that will also determine success/failure.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on February 01, 2016, 02:59:35 PM
They traded the #1 overall, the #1 allocation pick and joevin Jones for 3 lower picks and cash.

Whether or not Yaro (who, if they kept the pick, they would have taken) ends up being great is TBD. Yes, they got significantly younger. But I'm still not convinced they "won" in all their dealings. Of course, the big unknown is the funny money they received. How they spend that will also determine success/failure.

Well, if you look at it that simplistically.  But I really think they did well.

1)  Traded the #1 overall pick for the #4 and General Allocation Money.  Used #4 overall pick to select Brandon Vincent.  Vincent was highly regarded by many to be one of the top players of the draft.  Example of this is his current presence in the USMNT camp.  Top LB in the draft.  Yes, they could have taken Yaro, but rumor on that is Chicago did not see him as a CB and only as a RB due to his height.  However, Yaro only wanted to play CB.  I thought Chicago played this very well.

2)  Traded away Joevin Jones for the #15 pick and more GAM.  To be honest, I don't know a whole ton about Jones, how effective he was, what his contract situation is, or how the new coaching staff sees him fitting into the current lineup.  But a lot of those items need to be considered.  But coming away with the 15th pick that was later used, along with GAM is pretty nice.

3)  Trading #15 and #33 and #1 Allocation Ranking for #12 and #22 and #2 Allocation Ranking.  I don't see how moving down in the Allocation Order by one spot is really a bad thing.  To be honest, I'm not sure what the Rapids were thinking here.  Rumor is they are going after Bedoya and Howard.  So unless Chicago really wanted to sign one of those two, then this is moot.  Moving up both spots, one of them used to select the most pro ready CB in the Draft (Campbell) was well done.  I don't know a ton about Alex Morrell, so will refrain on commenting on that pick.

I don't see how this cannot be anything other than a great success by the Fire.  Trading for cash in this league is a huge deal with the current salary cap limitations.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 01, 2016, 04:00:21 PM
Well, if you look at it that simplistically.  But I really think they did well.

1)  Traded the #1 overall pick for the #4 and General Allocation Money.  Used #4 overall pick to select Brandon Vincent.  Vincent was highly regarded by many to be one of the top players of the draft.  Example of this is his current presence in the USMNT camp.  Top LB in the draft.  Yes, they could have taken Yaro, but rumor on that is Chicago did not see him as a CB and only as a RB due to his height.  However, Yaro only wanted to play CB.  I thought Chicago played this very well.

2)  Traded away Joevin Jones for the #15 pick and more GAM.  To be honest, I don't know a whole ton about Jones, how effective he was, what his contract situation is, or how the new coaching staff sees him fitting into the current lineup.  But a lot of those items need to be considered.  But coming away with the 15th pick that was later used, along with GAM is pretty nice.

3)  Trading #15 and #33 and #1 Allocation Ranking for #12 and #22 and #2 Allocation Ranking.  I don't see how moving down in the Allocation Order by one spot is really a bad thing.  To be honest, I'm not sure what the Rapids were thinking here.  Rumor is they are going after Bedoya and Howard.  So unless Chicago really wanted to sign one of those two, then this is moot.  Moving up both spots, one of them used to select the most pro ready CB in the Draft (Campbell) was well done.  I don't know a ton about Alex Morrell, so will refrain on commenting on that pick.

I don't see how this cannot be anything other than a great success by the Fire.  Trading for cash in this league is a huge deal with the current salary cap limitations.

Probably doesn't help overall that I am incredibly negative when it comes to the Fire ownership. Granted, Nelson just started there along with Pauno. But there is little in the last 4 years to make a Fire fan feel like the ones in charge know what they're doing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on February 01, 2016, 04:11:32 PM
Probably doesn't help overall that I am incredibly negative when it comes to the Fire ownership. Granted, Nelson just started there along with Pauno. But there is little in the last 4 years to make a Fire fan feel like the ones in charge know what they're doing.

Well I can't blame you there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on February 01, 2016, 04:25:13 PM
Watching the USA-Iceland friendly....can anyone tell me what Gyasi Zardes does well? I'm not a frequent viewer of MLS and he has yet to impress me in a USA jersey. Seems to just consistently give the ball away.

Just watched the game. As far as Zardes...well...I've been impressed with him as a CF in MLS. Now maybe that was partially being the beneficiary on a team with Donovan and Keane, but he always seemed to be in the right spot and was a strong CF with just enough speed to be dangerous. The problem is he has no position on the US. He's on the right, on the left, in the middle, you never really know. No way to get comfortable. And as a natural CF, he's not really used to providing help defense and tracking back, so he looks out of place on the wing (which he is).

Lots of positives from yesterday. I loved what I saw from Jerome Kieswetter. Speed, good passing, just was always dangerous. And while he got few mentions, Darlington Nagbe had a few bright moments as well, but of course he was deployed on the wing and all his best moments were in the middle of the pitch. Why would I expect JK to put anyone in the position they have had success at? Good to see solid games from Jozy and Morris in attack as well. Going forward, we looked good in general.

Of course, we looked soft at the back again. Iceland could have had 2-3 more if not for shoddy accuracy. Kellyn Acosta disappointed. Offered little going forward and was caught ball-watching on the opener. Ethan Finlay also was less than inspired. Granted, his first real opportunity, but he didn't stake much of a claim. I hoped for more from a guy who has done so well in MLS the past few years.

Would have liked to see Miazga, but glad Birnbaum got a chance and had an impact. Our defense vastly needs an overhaul. However, part of that overhaul is finding a replacement for Jermaine Jones, and playing him doesn't give anyone that opportunity. Would have liked to see Kitchen or Trapp sooner and Tchani get more run.

Hope to see a bit more experimentation on Friday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on February 01, 2016, 05:21:27 PM
Probably doesn't help overall that I am incredibly negative when it comes to the Fire ownership. Granted, Nelson just started there along with Pauno. But there is little in the last 4 years to make a Fire fan feel like the ones in charge know what they're doing.

Agreed with everything from WarriorInNYC

I am 100% #HauptmanOut. Having said that, Nelson has earned my patience. He clearly has an overall plan and is being diligent and thorough. I thought Pauno was a good hire and think he'll be a good fit with a young roster. I have #cf97 optimism, even while expecting a rough year with all the youth.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 01, 2016, 07:16:57 PM
Agreed with everything from WarriorInNYC

I am 100% #HauptmanOut. Having said that, Nelson has earned my patience. He clearly has an overall plan and is being diligent and thorough. I thought Pauno was a good hire and think he'll be a good fit with a young roster. I have #cf97 optimism, even while expecting a rough year with all the youth.

Well, the european transfer window is now closed. And, SHOCKER, the Fire did basically nothin.

Does this roster excite anyone? http://www.chicago-fire.com/post/2016/02/01/chicago-fire-weekly-update-february-1

Yuck.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on February 02, 2016, 11:36:29 AM
Well, the european transfer window is now closed. And, SHOCKER, the Fire did basically nothin.

Does this roster excite anyone? http://www.chicago-fire.com/post/2016/02/01/chicago-fire-weekly-update-february-1

Yuck.

European teams can still transfer players to MLS. If anything, this helps the Fire because European transfer options are now closed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 13, 2016, 10:24:11 AM
Fire trade shipp to Montreal for funny money.

Always "more moves coming" from fire management.  Allegedly

My long term fire fandom is hanging by a thread
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 25, 2016, 02:34:44 PM
Anyone going to Copa America this year? Kinda wish that Colombia played at soldier field. But seeing Argentina may be a nice consolation prize if Messi is playing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on February 25, 2016, 04:03:44 PM
Anyone going to Copa America this year? Kinda wish that Colombia played at soldier field. But seeing Argentina may be a nice consolation prize if Messi is playing.
I got tickets for the USMNT games in Chicago and Philly.  So excited.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Litehouse on February 25, 2016, 04:53:51 PM
This seems like as good a place as any to ask...
Has anyone ever bought tickets for an EPL match?  I'm going to be in London in a few weeks, and Chelsea and Arsenal are both playing at home while I'm there, so I've been looking into getting tickets.  It basically seems impossible with both places sold-out from season-ticket holders and membership clubs.  The secondary market doesn't look too promising either, with horror stories about online scalpers not following through, or paying to borrow credit-card-style swipe tickets that need to be returned after used.  I'd prefer to catch Chelsea since I'm staying closer to Stamford Bridge.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 25, 2016, 08:45:53 PM
This seems like as good a place as any to ask...
Has anyone ever bought tickets for an EPL match?  I'm going to be in London in a few weeks, and Chelsea and Arsenal are both playing at home while I'm there, so I've been looking into getting tickets.  It basically seems impossible with both places sold-out from season-ticket holders and membership clubs.  The secondary market doesn't look too promising either, with horror stories about online scalpers not following through, or paying to borrow credit-card-style swipe tickets that need to be returned after used.  I'd prefer to catch Chelsea since I'm staying closer to Stamford Bridge.

You're right with close to impossible. Secondary market is tough too because of the credit card style. I know for world cup tickets you couldn't even sell them on the secondary market. (I had tickets to a game) Do you know if West Ham is in town? They might be an easier get and still a quality side this year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Litehouse on February 25, 2016, 09:54:05 PM
West Ham is at Leicester City
It's April 16, so it looks like my options at Man City at Chelsea, or Crystal Palace at Arsenal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 25, 2016, 10:13:50 PM
West Ham is at Leicester City
It's April 16, so it looks like my options at Man City at Chelsea, or Crystal Palace at Arsenal.

You ain't getting anything for the Chelsea game. Best chance is the Palace vs Arsenal. Too bad Palace wasn't at home that'd be more doable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: robmufan on February 26, 2016, 12:31:25 PM
Anyone going to Copa America this year? Kinda wish that Colombia played at soldier field. But seeing Argentina may be a nice consolation prize if Messi is playing.

Going to USA v Cost Rica in Chicago. American Outlaw section...should be a good time!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on February 26, 2016, 12:39:54 PM
West Ham is at Leicester City
It's April 16, so it looks like my options at Man City at Chelsea, or Crystal Palace at Arsenal.


Did you happen to look at the Championship fixtures?  I know it isn't the same, but Fulham, Brentford, Charlton and QPR all have stadiums in the London area.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on February 26, 2016, 12:45:54 PM
Anyone going to Copa America this year? Kinda wish that Colombia played at soldier field. But seeing Argentina may be a nice consolation prize if Messi is playing.

I have tickets to all four games, but I'm selling the Jamaica ones. Sitting in the American Outlaws section for USA, then some general package tickets for Argentina and the semis.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: robmufan on February 26, 2016, 01:35:03 PM
What section for AO...sucks they are doing non-GA, but i guess i can stay at the bar a bit longer.

Sec. 121 for me
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on February 26, 2016, 03:35:12 PM
What section for AO...sucks they are doing non-GA, but i guess i can stay at the bar a bit longer.

Sec. 121 for me

I'm 223 in the AO section.  A coworker came over and started talking to me right at the time they were going on sale, so I was around 10 minutes late or so.  My seats for the Philly game are much better.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 26, 2016, 04:38:41 PM
This seems like as good a place as any to ask...
Has anyone ever bought tickets for an EPL match?  I'm going to be in London in a few weeks, and Chelsea and Arsenal are both playing at home while I'm there, so I've been looking into getting tickets.  It basically seems impossible with both places sold-out from season-ticket holders and membership clubs.  The secondary market doesn't look too promising either, with horror stories about online scalpers not following through, or paying to borrow credit-card-style swipe tickets that need to be returned after used.  I'd prefer to catch Chelsea since I'm staying closer to Stamford Bridge.

Had zero luck in London, just went to a pub around Chelsea, was great.  Just got back from Barcelona and the hotel helped us score four, first row tix at the Camp Nou right where Messi celebrated his free kick goal v Celta Vigo. Worth a shot to ask the hotel. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on February 26, 2016, 07:13:27 PM
What section for AO...sucks they are doing non-GA, but i guess i can stay at the bar a bit longer.

Sec. 121 for me

I know I'm in the 200s, stupid website wouldn't let me buy on my iPhone and by the time I could log onto a PC those were the best left. Annoying, because I was ready and waiting.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on March 03, 2016, 12:27:05 PM
NYWarrior and I are also going to the USA-Costa Rica game and sitting with AO. Section 220.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 25, 2016, 10:53:09 PM
Not good
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 26, 2016, 08:04:48 AM
I was watching basketball last night, but got up early this morning to watch yesterday's games. The U-23s actually played pretty well. Got the early goal and despite conceding a penalty, the defense held firm and they got a positive 1-1 draw away to Colombia. Then I watched the senior team.

Ugh.

I only had time for the second half, so after watching the two goals in the first fifteen minutes to go down 2-0 to Guatemala, a team that has NEVER beat us in World Cup Qualifying, I jumped ahead. The goal kick goal was horrible, though. Just letting a goal kick go through the entire midfield and defense to an unmarked Carlos Ruiz? Are you kidding me?

Our attack was lackluster. Got a few chances in front of goal, but shot placement was horrible and outside of one good kick save on Altidore, most of the work the Guatemalan keeper did was pretty routine. In the last 20 minutes, we looked awful. The team was clearly gassed. Not enough left in the tank. I'm used to USA teams that never run out of energy, that have the force of will to put up a fight at the end. We just looked defeated.

Was this the worst loss in USA history? Not sure I'd go that far, but it was probably the worst Qualifying loss, which is pretty bad on the heels of what were arguably the two worst Gold Cup losses in our history. Klinsmann just keeps lowering the bar. Now we are in third place halfway through the round. We have to beat Guatemala on Tuesday. If we draw that, we'll be on the ropes.

I've always felt if we ever missed the World Cup again out of CONCACAF, it would be in this phase. JK needs to pull it together and get 9 points out of the last 3 so we don't just advance, we top the group and have some semblance of confidence. At this point, I'm not sure that's even feasible, though. I could easily see us sitting on the sidelines. Huge mistake by Gulati to not fire Klinsmann after the last round of qualifying. It was the only major gap in significant play and a great time to bring in a new manager. Would have given the new guy a four-month head start on these two fixtures. SMDH.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on March 28, 2016, 11:59:29 AM
I haven't been a huge Klinnsman fan, but didn't really want him fired either.  And I understand he has done quite a lot to help further US Soccer, and I am very grateful for that.  But I'm officially done with his lineup choices and tactics.

On Friday, he played a RB at CB, so he could play a DM at RB, so he could play a RB at RM, so he could play a CAM at CDM, so he could play a deep lying playmaker at CAM.

This isn't the old USMNT, there is quality talent at every position, yet he continues to try and think he's smarter and play guys out of position.

I also really do not understand his love affair for Zardes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on March 28, 2016, 12:06:02 PM
I haven't been a huge Klinnsman fan, but didn't really want him fired either.  And I understand he has done quite a lot to help further US Soccer, and I am very grateful for that.  But I'm officially done with his lineup choices and tactics.

On Friday, he played a RB at CB, so he could play a DM at RB, so he could play a RB at RM, so he could play a CAM at CDM, so he could play a deep lying playmaker at CAM.

This isn't the old USMNT, there is quality talent at every position, yet he continues to try and think he's smarter and play guys out of position.

I also really do not understand his love affair for Zardes.

This is ultimately the issue I have with JK and something I was told he corrected from his Die Mannshaft days.....his tactical and line-up choices. He continues to use players in roles they don't spend time in other than USMNT training camps. He's all about sending his players to Europe to develop, but then never uses them in the roles they are developing in. Sometimes you don't put the 11 best players on the pitch, you put the group of 11 that matches the best.

And I agree, they looked totally gassed which is the one area I thought we would never be concerned with. No matter what, the USMNT always looked like they were playing with all the heart and effort they had and sometimes that was enough. Now we look like we don't have tactics nor hustle.

I think its time to ask JK to take the technical director role full time and leave the team management to someone.....competent.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 29, 2016, 05:31:54 PM
Wow, Colombia just kicked Ecuador all over the pitch and still didn't have their full squad. No Quintero, (playing in the U23 tonight) Guarin, Sanchez, Aguilar, Zuniga and Armero. Nice to have Arias and Cardona back though. The South American qualifying is gonna be nuts.

Edit: Can't believe I forgot about Martinez and Falcao (when healthy)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on March 29, 2016, 06:50:59 PM
I still really dislike Gyasi Zardes as a player.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 29, 2016, 08:22:34 PM
I still really dislike Gyasi Zardes as a player.

That's how I feel about Zusi.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 29, 2016, 08:26:19 PM
Prediction time, 2-1 colombia with quintero scoring both goals. For those of you who don't know, he's the next big star for Colombia. Probably going to be the starting CAM for Colombia moving James to the left hand side.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 29, 2016, 08:49:22 PM
Pretty crazy how much more confident the individual players looked, and the team cohesiveness appeared, when the players played in their natural/club roles (minus Cameron)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 29, 2016, 10:16:36 PM
Yech, this is terrible to watch. Between the complete disrespect from the US crowd, the constant flopping of Colombia (weird cause their senior team usually stays on their feet) it's pretty brutal.

On that note I have a real simple way to stop diving. If a player is on the ground for longer than 10 seconds, you have to sub them off if there is no blood.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on March 29, 2016, 10:41:06 PM
Yech, this is terrible to watch. Between the complete disrespect from the US crowd, the constant flopping of Colombia (weird cause their senior team usually stays on their feet) it's pretty brutal.

On that note I have a real simple way to stop diving. If a player is on the ground for longer than 10 seconds, you have to sub them off if there is no blood.

Ugly U23 game. Ugly officiating in both.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on March 30, 2016, 08:11:38 AM
Pretty crazy how much more confident the individual players looked, and the team cohesiveness appeared, when the players played in their natural/club roles (minus Cameron)

100% this.

Hypocrite alert....I rail against players playing out of position...but I love Cameron in the center. Truth be told, I love Cameron generally, I think he is the most consistent player on the senior team in the last year or two.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 30, 2016, 09:29:05 AM
100% this.

Hypocrite alert....I rail against players playing out of position...but I love Cameron in the center. Truth be told, I love Cameron generally, I think he is the most consistent player on the senior team in the last year or two.

I think Cameron's injuries and subsequent absence from the national team for a bit actually helped him in the long run.  He was often maligned and criticized a few years back, fell off the map, worked on his game at the club level, and he's been fantastic as of late.  Big fan.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on March 30, 2016, 11:24:19 AM
100% this.

Hypocrite alert....I rail against players playing out of position...but I love Cameron in the center. Truth be told, I love Cameron generally, I think he is the most consistent player on the senior team in the last year or two.

But I don't think Cameron is necessarily all that out of position at CB.  He's been playing CDM over in England, but has logged a ton of minutes at CB over the years.  I love how he is a threat with his sending accurate long balls, as well as his frame off of set pieces.

For me, the starting CB pair, when all healthy, needs to be Cameron-Brooks.  Though I did think Birnbaum played well last night (though he really wasn't tested all that much by GUA).

We need to find a LB that is capable.  I would go ahead and pencil in Brooks-Cameron-Yedlin in the back.

I'm not a Zardes fan, but he played decent last night.  I honestly think the only position he should play on the USMNT is as a winger in a 4-3-3.  He doesn't have the passing or technical skills to be a midfielder, and doesn't have the finishing skills to be a true striker.  What he is good at, is he's fast and makes smart and dangerous runs and can play some decent crosses.  (However, his first touch is still crap).  I don't want to see him in the starting XI (though Klinsmann loves him), but as a winger he can somewhat contribute.

I'm not a big Zusi fan either, though he did play somewhat well last night.  I know Klinnsman said he played Zusi for set piece delivery (though his set pieces were awful), but why start him at AM in a 4-3-3 when he hasn't played that position, while Mix plays AM in a 4-3-3 at NYC and has been doing a great job at it this year?  Again, argument that I'm wrong on this could be had, as Zusi scored last night, but I think he really thrived off of the US pressing high and causing GUA to make mistakes in the back and leave a bunch of space.  Not necessarily because Zusi has a ton of talent.

Beckerman provided some relief, and his positioning is great, but it is quite easy to see from last night's game that he doesn't have it all left, and he should not be on the roster for the WC.  His speed is severely lacking, and his passing isn't crisp.  In games like this against inferior opponents, it can be good to have a smart player like Beckerman in.  But against more talented squads, he will simply be outclassed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on March 30, 2016, 11:55:25 AM
Zardes represents the 90s of US soccer, lot of effort and splash but just a horrendous first touch. My god, I don't know how you can have a worst first touch and play at the national level. Granted that's always been the US achilles heal for some reason but it's getting better....just not with Zardes.

I agree that the biggest weakness is at LB right, not sure what solution we have there long term. I do love the Cameron-Brooks pairing with Besler as a sub as needed there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 30, 2016, 12:52:24 PM
I agree that the biggest weakness is at LB right, not sure what solution we have there long term. I do love the Cameron-Brooks pairing with Besler as a sub as needed there.

Demarcus Beasley

But if finding a left back is hard, why doesn't the US just play 3 in the back with Beckerman in a CDM role and yedlin and someone else as wing backs? I'm not super familiar with the US personel but I know Yedlin can play defense and midfield so I feel like being a wing back would really benefit his game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 30, 2016, 07:06:51 PM
Demarcus Beasley

But if finding a left back is hard, why doesn't the US just play 3 in the back with Beckerman in a CDM role and yedlin and someone else as wing backs? I'm not super familiar with the US personel but I know Yedlin can play defense and midfield so I feel like being a wing back would really benefit his game.

I actually quite like the 3-4-3/3-5-3. But, there are many international teams who use a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 (or variant) and their wingers/outside mids wreak HAVOC with an undisciplined/sub-par technical 3 CB formation. The US would be that team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 31, 2016, 04:24:39 PM
I actually quite like the 3-4-3/3-5-3. But, there are many international teams who use a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 (or variant) and their wingers/outside mids wreak HAVOC with an undisciplined/sub-par technical 3 CB formation. The US would be that team.

I mean, why not test it out for copa america then? They'd get a pretty good idea of how'd they fare pretty quickly against Colombia with Cuadrado and James. If they can handle that then they may actuslly find a formation to stick with.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 01, 2016, 03:14:07 PM
On Friday, he played a RB at CB, so he could play a DM at RB, so he could play a RB at RM, so he could play a CAM at CDM, so he could play a deep lying playmaker at CAM.

We need to find a LB that is capable.  I would go ahead and pencil in Brooks-Cameron-Yedlin in the back.

I think the problem you mentioned in the Friday post relates directly to this comment from your recent post. We have a capable LB in Fabian Johnson. The problem is that Jurgen seems to want to deploy him in the midfield, bouncing back and forth from side to side.

Zardes' biggest problem, in my opinion, is again positioning. He normally plays as a central striker when I have watched him for Galaxy, yet Jurgen wants him on the wing. I'm not sure he has either the pace or touch for that, though as a striker who just needed to poke it in, he excels. Yet for some reason, we never see him deployed like that for the Nats.

Guatemala played the second game hoping for a draw, and after conceding the second, seemed content to just try to limit the damage. The consolation is a win against SV&G should really be enough to put us through, and would do so if both us and T&T win.

The U-23s were disappointing, though I missed most of the game. Saw the opening 20 minutes or so but missed all real action. Honestly, coming out of CONCACAF, I don't think there's ever much excuse for us not being able to qualify. Two Olympics running now we've come up short.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on April 01, 2016, 03:22:37 PM
I think the problem you mentioned in the Friday post relates directly to this comment from your recent post. We have a capable LB in Fabian Johnson. The problem is that Jurgen seems to want to deploy him in the midfield, bouncing back and forth from side to side.

I know Fabian would be completely capable playing at LB, but he's absolutely been killing it in the Bundesliga as a LM.

The U-23s were disappointing, though I missed most of the game. Saw the opening 20 minutes or so but missed all real action. Honestly, coming out of CONCACAF, I don't think there's ever much excuse for us not being able to qualify. Two Olympics running now we've come up short.

That was the problem.  Beating Colombia was going to be tough as hell.  The biggest issue was not being able to beat Honduras.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 02, 2016, 05:38:32 PM
So Leicester City just won the league. Wow. On Twitter, everyone wants to compare it to other sports. There is no comparison. They were a 5,000:1 shot. For the love of God, the Babylonian Casino only had David as a 2,000:1 underdog against Goliath.

Winning a one-off, winning a tournament, it just can't compare to winning a full league like this. Especially in a sport where competitive disparity isn't just encouraged, it's the entire basis of the sport. Since the league's inception in 1992-93, there had only been 5 different champions (Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester City, Blackburn Rovers), and those five along with at various times Liverpool, Tottenham, Newcastle, and Leeds dominated the top four. Prior to Leicester this year, only 13 teams had ever finished in the top-four of the league, with Everton, Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, and Norwich City each having one appearance up there in the past 24 years.

Winning this league, winning any top flight European league, is a virtual impossibility for all but a handful of ultra-wealthy teams. Absolutely amazing accomplishment. There's no comparison. There's nothing like it. There will likely be nothing else like it in our lifetimes. Next year, it will be United, or City, or Arsenal, or Chelsea again, the status quo will return.

Don't forget this moment. This is the single unlikeliest event in sports you will ever see in your life. I hope you didn't miss it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 02, 2016, 07:06:50 PM
Agree Brew. Probably top 5 for upsets in sporting history. Good for Leicester, good for Jamie Vardy, etc. Last season they were last in the premier league at Christmas and now they won the league, incredible. Curious to see how they fare in the Champions League next year. Now I'm just hoping West Ham can get a Europa League spot, COYI.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 02, 2016, 08:18:24 PM
Ug. So Spursy...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on May 02, 2016, 08:30:30 PM
I do not know what I should think about Arsenal.  On the one hand, their track record of consistency is very impressive.  OTOH, their continued under-performance is an issue right? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on May 03, 2016, 08:12:40 AM
Ug. So Spursy...

This season redefines Spursy.....they scored the most goals in the league, allowed the fewest in the league and can't catch the league winner with 2 games to go. Tremendous team that in any other season would be the clear winner and would be remembered historically....so Spursy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on May 03, 2016, 08:13:45 AM
I do not know what I should think about Arsenal.  On the one hand, their track record of consistency is very impressive.  OTOH, their continued under-performance is an issue right?

MiBs call it right, Arsenal is great as long as it doesn't mean anything. It's like the club has a collective mental block in performing when the pressure is on. Don't see any reason it changes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on May 03, 2016, 08:17:56 AM
So Leicester City just won the league. Wow. On Twitter, everyone wants to compare it to other sports. There is no comparison. They were a 5,000:1 shot. For the love of God, the Babylonian Casino only had David as a 2,000:1 underdog against Goliath.

Winning a one-off, winning a tournament, it just can't compare to winning a full league like this. Especially in a sport where competitive disparity isn't just encouraged, it's the entire basis of the sport. Since the league's inception in 1992-93, there had only been 5 different champions (Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester City, Blackburn Rovers), and those five along with at various times Liverpool, Tottenham, Newcastle, and Leeds dominated the top four. Prior to Leicester this year, only 13 teams had ever finished in the top-four of the league, with Everton, Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, and Norwich City each having one appearance up there in the past 24 years.

Winning this league, winning any top flight European league, is a virtual impossibility for all but a handful of ultra-wealthy teams. Absolutely amazing accomplishment. There's no comparison. There's nothing like it. There will likely be nothing else like it in our lifetimes. Next year, it will be United, or City, or Arsenal, or Chelsea again, the status quo will return.

Don't forget this moment. This is the single unlikeliest event in sports you will ever see in your life. I hope you didn't miss it.

One thing I do wonder, is if there is some new model that gets taken away from this. LC played almost only EPL games (no champions or Europa Leagues, etc) which allowed them to play their starting XI more than any other team in EPL. Next year LC will have to play all of the non-EPL cups and that wears a team down.  Will be interesting to see what their title defense looks like.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 03, 2016, 08:29:43 AM
MiBs call it right, Arsenal is great as long as it doesn't mean anything. It's like the club has a collective mental block in performing when the pressure is on. Don't see any reason it changes.

Arsenal haven't had a great spine in years. They desperately need some steel in the midfield.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on May 03, 2016, 08:35:54 AM
One thing I do wonder, is if there is some new model that gets taken away from this. LC played almost only EPL games (no champions or Europa Leagues, etc) which allowed them to play their starting XI more than any other team in EPL. Next year LC will have to play all of the non-EPL cups and that wears a team down.  Will be interesting to see what their title defense looks like.


Also out early in both the League Cup and the FA Cup.  I think they will end up playing 43 matches all year.

Manchester City for instance will play 59.  60 if they win on Wednesday. 

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 03, 2016, 11:23:26 AM
This season redefines Spursy.....they scored the most goals in the league, allowed the fewest in the league and can't catch the league winner with 2 games to go. Tremendous team that in any other season would be the clear winner and would be remembered historically....so Spursy.

Not quite so. Spuds can only reach 76 which would be enough to win exactly one time in Premier League history (at that, it would have been by a single point). They really weren't all that tremendous. It's just that the elites were absolutely dreadful.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 03, 2016, 11:24:20 AM
One thing I do wonder, is if there is some new model that gets taken away from this. LC played almost only EPL games (no champions or Europa Leagues, etc) which allowed them to play their starting XI more than any other team in EPL. Next year LC will have to play all of the non-EPL cups and that wears a team down.  Will be interesting to see what their title defense looks like.

I'm sure people will try to copy them, but it will be a fool's errand. The seasons Vardy and Mahrez had were ridiculous. Vardy more than quadrupled his goal tally from last year while Mahrez scored more this season than in his entire senior career combined (5 years). It would be like OJ Mayo and Khris Middleton both putting up MVP seasons for the Bucks next year. You just can't mimic that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 03, 2016, 12:25:10 PM
I do not know what I should think about Arsenal.  On the one hand, their track record of consistency is very impressive.  OTOH, their continued under-performance is an issue right?

Actually, Arsenal follows a quite clear pattern: whomever is the best player in the squad from August-November (Cazorla in '15; Ozil in '14; Ramsey in '13, etc.) will get a long term injury putting him on the shelf for three or four months in which time the club slowly oozes out of relevancy sometime around the second week of March. It's a miracle they never finish lower then fourth.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 03, 2016, 02:55:39 PM
I'm sure people will try to copy them, but it will be a fool's errand. The seasons Vardy and Mahrez had were ridiculous. Vardy more than quadrupled his goal tally from last year while Mahrez scored more this season than in his entire senior career combined (5 years). It would be like OJ Mayo and Khris Middleton both putting up MVP seasons for the Bucks next year. You just can't mimic that.

I agree that this may be Vardy's best season for the rest of his career, but Mahrez is the real deal. Still only 25 I think he has a lot left in the tank. Also, very unlikely he plays for Leicester next season.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on May 26, 2016, 11:28:41 AM
Decent showing last night for the USMNT even though it was just a friendly.  They played much, much better in the second half after Klinsmann moved Bradley into a deeper role (shocker).  The back 4 looked in good shape, Yedlin looked much better defensively and I thought Birnbaum played pretty well, though I'd like Cameron to take that sport back once he's healthy.

Pulisic, Wood, and Nagbe all had great showings after being subbed on.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 26, 2016, 05:11:28 PM
Decent showing last night for the USMNT even though it was just a friendly.  They played much, much better in the second half after Klinsmann moved Bradley into a deeper role (shocker).  The back 4 looked in good shape, Yedlin looked much better defensively and I thought Birnbaum played pretty well, though I'd like Cameron to take that sport back once he's healthy.

Pulisic, Wood, and Nagbe all had great showings after being subbed on.

I, too, agree they played better as it went on. However, I saw Birnbaum as not so good with the ball and oftentimes reckless with his passing. He is good in the air so going forward for a starved offensive team he may have a role as a late sub specifically for set pieces.

Also though the defense was poor for the first 25 minutes. Only reason they were allowed to settle is because Ecuador had more interest in making their dinner reservation than playing the game. Yedlin is much better off for having to play with offensively challenged Sunderland. It allows him an easy transition to the National Team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on May 26, 2016, 05:29:19 PM
I, too, agree they played better as it went on. However, I saw Birnbaum as not so good with the ball and oftentimes reckless with his passing. He is good in the air so going forward for a starved offensive team he may have a role as a late sub specifically for set pieces.

Also though the defense was poor for the first 25 minutes. Only reason they were allowed to settle is because Ecuador had more interest in making their dinner reservation than playing the game. Yedlin is much better off for having to play with offensively challenged Sunderland. It allows him an easy transition to the National Team.

Agree that Birnbaum made some mistakes passing the ball, but I thought defensively he was pretty solid.  Overall, I thought he had a decent game considering this was his first international match against decent competition.  He's kind of come out of nowhere for DCU and only had two previous appearances against Iceland and Guatemala.  I was expecting him to make more mistakes than he did.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 26, 2016, 07:04:01 PM
http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2016/05/the-usmnt-tripped-and-fell-into-a-formation-that-could-change-things/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 26, 2016, 09:42:00 PM
Agree that Birnbaum made some mistakes passing the ball, but I thought defensively he was pretty solid.  Overall, I thought he had a decent game considering this was his first international match against decent competition.  He's kind of come out of nowhere for DCU and only had two previous appearances against Iceland and Guatemala.  I was expecting him to make more mistakes than he did.

In this regard, more than fair assessment. As reckless as some of the passes were there was nothing there to disqualify him from further consideration. And I don't think the set piece positive he brings can be understated. Most important, the position on both sides seems to be a quite open competition.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 02, 2016, 07:00:46 PM
Here's my lineup tomorrow if I'm running the show...

Fabian - Wood - Dempsey
Jones - Bedoya
Bradley
Castillo - Brooks - Cameron - Yedlin
Guzan

You could also talk me into dropping Dempsey and putting Nagbe in the middle with Bedoya wide.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 02, 2016, 09:06:06 PM
Here's my lineup tomorrow if I'm running the show...

Fabian - Wood - Dempsey
Jones - Bedoya
Bradley
Castillo - Brooks - Cameron - Yedlin
Guzan

You could also talk me into dropping Dempsey and putting Nagbe in the middle with Bedoya wide.

Vsmos Colombia. Even though half the normal colombian team isnt playing, the US is gonna have a tough time with Cuadrado and James on the wings.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 02, 2016, 09:32:28 PM
If I had to guess the lineup for the Colombian team tomorrow (its honestly anyones guess at this point) it would be something like this.

                                 Bacca

                                Cardona
James                                                  Cuadrado
                                Sanchez

Fabra          Zapata             Murillo            Arias

                                Ospina

It's a very interesting team. I would argue Ospina is the best keeper in the tournament. The back 4 is about a wash versus their world cup team, Murillo and Arias are very talented but very young and I wouldn't be surprised to see them go 3 in the back at some point. Sanchez is so solid in the CDM role. Obviously Cuadrado and James are absolute studs. Cardona is extremely talented just raw and Bacca just finds ways to score.

Here's where the problem is though with this Colombian team. They have zero depth, especially at striker and the central midfield. If any of those guys in the middle of the pitch go down, there's gonna be some serious issues.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 02, 2016, 10:49:32 PM
Flying up tomorrow for the game.....anyone from Scoop going to be there? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 03, 2016, 09:49:11 AM
Here's my lineup tomorrow if I'm running the show...

Fabian - Wood - Dempsey
Jones - Bedoya
Bradley
Castillo - Brooks - Cameron - Yedlin
Guzan

You could also talk me into dropping Dempsey and putting Nagbe in the middle with Bedoya wide.

I really don't understand parts of this lineup.  Dempsey on the wing?  Castillo at LB?

Based on the last two friendlies, I'd be very surprised if the lineup wasn't:

Wood-Dempsey-Zardes
Jones - Bedoya
Bradley
Fabia - Brooks - Cameron - Yedlin

Barring injuries or a big lead, Pulisic and Nagbe are set as subs, with the third being a wildcard depending on score, performance, or change in tactics.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 03, 2016, 09:50:09 AM
Flying up tomorrow for the game.....anyone from Scoop going to be there?

Heading to the American Outlaws bar here in Manhattan to watch the game tonight.  Flying to Chicago tomorrow morning to be at the game Tuesday.  In Philly next weekend for the Paraguay match.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 03, 2016, 10:04:26 AM
Heading to the American Outlaws bar here in Manhattan to watch the game tonight.  Flying to Chicago tomorrow morning to be at the game Tuesday.  In Philly next weekend for the Paraguay match.

Safe travels.  Go Merica


At the airport last night, a bunch of folks coming off planes wearing Columbia kits.  I assume they are on the way up to San Jose tonight.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 03, 2016, 10:11:53 AM
Safe travels.  Go Merica


At the airport last night, a bunch of folks coming off planes wearing Columbia kits.  I assume they are on the way up to San Jose tonight.

I didn't know there was a team in South Carolina
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 03, 2016, 10:15:32 AM
I didn't know there was a team in South Carolina

New entrant
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 03, 2016, 11:03:14 AM
I really don't understand parts of this lineup.  Dempsey on the wing?  Castillo at LB?

Based on the last two friendlies, I'd be very surprised if the lineup wasn't:

Wood-Dempsey-Zardes
Jones - Bedoya
Bradley
Fabia - Brooks - Cameron - Yedlin

Barring injuries or a big lead, Pulisic and Nagbe are set as subs, with the third being a wildcard depending on score, performance, or change in tactics.

Dempsey on wing because he's not a target man. Hes better on the ball playing other players through and finding passing lanes. If US is in a 4-4-2, dempsey is up top.

Castillo because there's no other better LB option on the roster. Fabian is more successful on the wing as his club season demonstrated.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 03, 2016, 12:14:17 PM
Will be at the Argentina vs. Panama match next week. Really hoping Messi is healthy for it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 03, 2016, 12:42:27 PM
Dempsey on wing because he's not a target man. Hes better on the ball playing other players through and finding passing lanes. If US is in a 4-4-2, dempsey is up top.

Castillo because there's no other better LB option on the roster. Fabian is more successful on the wing as his club season demonstrated.

The problem is Dempsey can't play defense.  And Klinssman's system needs the wingers to come back on D.  Klinnsman isn't playing Dempsey as a target man in the 4-3-3 but more as a false 9.

I know Fabian is a better midfielder than defender, but the problem is Castillo is crap.  And playing Castillo at LB and Fabian at LW means removing another talented player off the field.  Fabian will still have plenty of chances to get forward playing LB.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 03, 2016, 01:29:35 PM
The problem is Dempsey can't play defense.  And Klinssman's system needs the wingers to come back on D.  Klinnsman isn't playing Dempsey as a target man in the 4-3-3 but more as a false 9.

I know Fabian is a better midfielder than defender, but the problem is Castillo is crap.  And playing Castillo at LB and Fabian at LW means removing another talented player off the field.  Fabian will still have plenty of chances to get forward playing LB.

And especially against Colombia you don't want a weak left back. Cuadrado would abuse him. How much pace does Fabian have?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 03, 2016, 01:48:39 PM
And especially against Colombia you don't want a weak left back. Cuadrado would abuse him. How much pace does Fabian have?

Probably second fastest behind Yedlin.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 03, 2016, 01:53:29 PM
Probably second fastest behind Yedlin.

Then you absolutely play him. Colombia very succeptable to counters so if you can get someone to run with Cuadrado and than move it the other way that bodes well for the US. Especially since Arias loves to push up from right back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 03, 2016, 02:49:22 PM
That, and having Fabian at LB allows Zardes to come in on the wing, where he can use his pace to attack but also track back on defense.  I'm not a big Zardes fan, but I think he is someone the USMNT absolutely needs against Colombia's athleticism.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 03, 2016, 03:25:37 PM
That, and having Fabian at LB allows Zardes to come in on the wing, where he can use his pace to attack but also track back on defense.  I'm not a big Zardes fan, but I think he is someone the USMNT absolutely needs against Colombia's athleticism.

I thought about this, but I'm really down on Zardes' first touch and I think possession is going to be critical...or at least not giving up possession on the defensive half any way.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 03, 2016, 05:38:34 PM
The problem is Dempsey can't play defense.  And Klinssman's system needs the wingers to come back on D.  Klinnsman isn't playing Dempsey as a target man in the 4-3-3 but more as a false 9.

I know Fabian is a better midfielder than defender, but the problem is Castillo is crap.  And playing Castillo at LB and Fabian at LW means removing another talented player off the field.  Fabian will still have plenty of chances to get forward playing LB.

Well, I think we're definitely playing Dempsey. I was thinking that I would prefer he not even start, to be honest. But here we are. And I think Wood is more valuable as a non-wing. Bedoya/Bradley/Yedlin can cover that side of the field.

The problem with Fabian at LB is he is AWFUL at tracking back once he gets forward. Watch the last few US losses. He was responsible for at least a couple goals (one against Mexico stands out to me) lately.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on June 03, 2016, 09:29:37 PM
What an infuriating game, the US has actually been the better team by far and are down 0-2.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 03, 2016, 09:31:11 PM
Hey. Can someone remind me why Dempsey should be the striker in a 4-3-3? Strange how ineffective the US looks with him there just like Seattle looks with him there
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 03, 2016, 09:39:53 PM
Gotta go big in the second half. Nagbe for Jones. Pulisic for Dempsey.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 03, 2016, 11:05:12 PM
Not a bad game from the US decent position and didn't give up any bad turnovers or counter atracks (just want to clarify I have nothing against the US) but Colombia is just much more talented team with James, Cuadrado, Cardona, Baccarin and Ospina. Btw, Cameron sounded really whiny in his post game interview. Give your opponent some credit.

One thing I really loved from a Colombian fan standpoint is the back 4 of Colombia. I was admittedly very worried with no Armero or Zuniga but they played really well, I really love what Murillo does and their two young CDMs were a pleasant surprise because I've never seen them play.

Question for Chicos, what was the fan distribution there?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 12:22:20 AM
Not a bad game from the US decent position and didn't give up any bad turnovers or counter atracks (just want to clarify I have nothing against the US) but Colombia is just much more talented team with James, Cuadrado, Cardona, Baccarin and Ospina. Btw, Cameron sounded really whiny in his post game interview. Give your opponent some credit.

One thing I really loved from a Colombian fan standpoint is the back 4 of Colombia. I was admittedly very worried with no Armero or Zuniga but they played really well, I really love what Murillo does and their two young CDMs were a pleasant surprise because I've never seen them play.

Question for Chicos, what was the fan distribution there?

Had to cancel.....bad day today....so we didn't get on plane and didn't attend.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 01:21:26 AM
Bradley looked awful...again.  IMO.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 04, 2016, 02:31:54 AM
Bradley looked awful...again.  IMO.

He wasn't good. They had a segment tonight on their hour long show after the game (which was quite good) where they showed how Bacca was basically a spy on Bradley the entire game, thats just great coaching by Pekerman. If other coaches were smart, that's how they should play the US.

The US needs to adjust and not be stuck and clueless when option 1 doesn't work out, and that's on Klinsmann.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 04, 2016, 08:38:01 AM
Not a bad game from the US decent position and didn't give up any bad turnovers or counter atracks (just want to clarify I have nothing against the US) but Colombia is just much more talented team with James, Cuadrado, Cardona, Baccarin and Ospina. Btw, Cameron sounded really whiny in his post game interview. Give your opponent some credit.

One thing I really loved from a Colombian fan standpoint is the back 4 of Colombia. I was admittedly very worried with no Armero or Zuniga but they played really well, I really love what Murillo does and their two young CDMs were a pleasant surprise because I've never seen them play.

Question for Chicos, what was the fan distribution there?

"Not a bad game from the US". Lol. Solid analysis.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 04, 2016, 09:58:31 AM
Jermaine Jones was just terrible. Baffling to put an old DMF whose game was never pace out on the wing. Other than winning the near corner free kick, I'm not sure he had a single positive offensive touch.

The changes also came too late. Nagbe and Pulisic should have been warming up at the 50 minute mark and in by 55.

The corner goal was disappointing. Cameron completely lost his man. Can't allow that free a shot on a corner. The penalty...well, what can you do? I agreed with the penalty call, Yedlin never should have had that hand out.

Above all, we looked slow in attack. Jones, Zardes, Bedoya, Dempsey, just not enough pace. And Bradley's passing accuracy was off the mark, which led to too many turnovers. Also just too complacent for too long. The start of the second half was telling. Down 2-0, we needed to come out on fire. Instead, Colombia looked more likely to make it 3-0 than we did to pull one back. I've felt for a long time JK lost the pulse of this team. Nothing tonight convinced me otherwise. Now Costa Rica is must win territory, and hoping for a draw today.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 04, 2016, 10:45:41 AM
"Not a bad game from the US". Lol. Solid analysis.

I'm a Colombia fan. I know very little about the US National team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 10:49:23 AM
What an infuriating game, the US has actually been the better team by far and are down 0-2.

Do you really believe this?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 04, 2016, 10:58:02 AM
Jermaine Jones was just terrible. Baffling to put an old DMF whose game was never pace out on the wing. Other than winning the near corner free kick, I'm not sure he had a single positive offensive touch.

The changes also came too late. Nagbe and Pulisic should have been warming up at the 50 minute mark and in by 55.

The corner goal was disappointing. Cameron completely lost his man. Can't allow that free a shot on a corner. The penalty...well, what can you do? I agreed with the penalty call, Yedlin never should have had that hand out.

Above all, we looked slow in attack. Jones, Zardes, Bedoya, Dempsey, just not enough pace. And Bradley's passing accuracy was off the mark, which led to too many turnovers. Also just too complacent for too long. The start of the second half was telling. Down 2-0, we needed to come out on fire. Instead, Colombia looked more likely to make it 3-0 than we did to pull one back. I've felt for a long time JK lost the pulse of this team. Nothing tonight convinced me otherwise. Now Costa Rica is must win territory, and hoping for a draw today.

Here's the real problem. Once again, playing players out of position. Zardes and Wood are NOT wingers. They are forwards, just like Dempsey. I like the USMNT in a 4-3-3. But you need to play guys in their natural (or even club) positions. Fabian should have been a winger. Wood should have been the striker. Granted, the US team outside of Fabian and Yedlin doesn't have a lot of speed. But once guys are playing where they are most effective, it would totally change the dynamics. Klins absolutely screwed up his front 3 all night. That also hurt Bradley (though he was plenty bad on his own) as he didn't have the outlets he normally does.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 04, 2016, 11:00:53 AM
Do you really believe this?

I initially thought that too just because they maintained possession but they really didn't have any great chances besides the two Dempsey free kicks. Possession is great, and not turning the ball over is great, but kinda worthless if you don't do anything with it. That's not to say Colombia was peppering Guzan with shots, but they made the most of the opportunities.

Also, what I notice from here is that you guys say the US always plays people out of position, Colmbia had everyone in their natural position with the exception of Cardona. I really think the US needs a true center forward to, doesn't have to be a star, but someone who is a ball hawk and can finish chances.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 11:09:02 AM
I initially thought that too just because they maintained possession but they really didn't have any great chances besides the two Dempsey free kicks. Possession is great, and not turning the ball over is great, but kinda worthless if you don't do anything with it. That's not to say Colombia was peppering Guzan with shots, but they made the most of the opportunities.

Also, what I notice from here is that you guys say the US always plays people out of position, Colmbia had everyone in their natural position with the exception of Cardona. I really think the US needs a true center forward to, doesn't have to be a star, but someone who is a ball hawk and can finish chances.

Colombia also let them monkey around with the ball at times.  If the game was tied, or Colombia was losing, then we would have seen a more aggressive play by Los Cafeteros. It wasn't needed.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 04, 2016, 12:00:04 PM
Colombia also let them monkey around with the ball at times.  If the game was tied, or Colombia was losing, then we would have seen a more aggressive play by Los Cafeteros. It wasn't needed.

Yup. Spot on.

After the first Colombia goal, they let the US do whatever they wanted until the attacking third. And the US couldn't muster any offensive creativity/threat
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 04, 2016, 12:09:53 PM
Right now, I think Dempsey can be that true CF we need. He's different than McBride, but he does well enough in the air and can create his own shot at times. Nifty enough to be dangerous and tidy enough to be a poacher. I think part of the problem is the formation. Ideally I think we'd be best using an attacking 4-5-1. As far as deployment...

Dempsey

Finlay --- Nagbe --- Yedlin
Bradley --- Williams

Johnson --- Brooks --- Birnbaum --- Cameron

Guzan

This would allow the wings and attacking mid (Nagbe) to join the attack and give the 4-3-3 appearance Klinsmann likes, but you have dedicated midfielders in those roles (not forwards like Wood and Zardes) that are better at possessing the ball. We had great possession in the middle third, but couldn't get the ball into the box because we had the wrong guys there.

Also, against a team like Colombia, we need to have the edge in the air. That means Birnbaum absolutely had to be out there. Putting Brooks, Birnbaum, Dempsey, and Cameron all on the field together would have improved our odds of scoring on setpieces. We also need guys that can still play. What are dinosaurs like Jones (no pace at age 34), Beckerman (no pace at age 34), and Wondo (never an international level player and 33) doing out there when we could have Finlay (a true pacey winger in his prime at 25) or Williams (starting for Reading, in his prime at 27)? And if you're that intent on forwards playing winger, why not go for guys like Arriola and Green who actually have pace and experience on the wing over Wondolowski, who at the international level has never impressed?

Should we have won yesterday? Probably not. We definitely should have drawn one back. I can't quibble over the result. The better team won. But the reality is when you go into a game playing a better team, you need the players and tactics that give you the best chance to take something out of it. We didn't do that. We got behind and never adapted. We had plenty of the ball but couldn't do anything with it in the final third. Our best opportunities all came off setpieces and we didn't have the best personnel out there to capitalize on that.

I really hope we can turn it around against Costa Rica. It will be such a completely different game, as they'll play in a shell with both teams likely hoping for a 1-0 win. But I'm kind of resigned to this just being how things go under Klinsmann. Best case scenario, we finish second in group and get excited about a semifinal in Chicago only to get blasted by Brazil in the quarters. Maybe blame the refs or blame the players not being good enough, but I know it won't be Klinsmann's fault. Just ask him...it never is.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 04, 2016, 12:28:28 PM
Right now, I think Dempsey can be that true CF we need. He's different than McBride, but he does well enough in the air and can create his own shot at times. Nifty enough to be dangerous and tidy enough to be a poacher. I think part of the problem is the formation. Ideally I think we'd be best using an attacking 4-5-1. As far as deployment...

Dempsey

Finlay --- Nagbe --- Yedlin
Bradley --- Williams

Johnson --- Brooks --- Birnbaum --- Cameron

Guzan

This would allow the wings and attacking mid (Nagbe) to join the attack and give the 4-3-3 appearance Klinsmann likes, but you have dedicated midfielders in those roles (not forwards like Wood and Zardes) that are better at possessing the ball. We had great possession in the middle third, but couldn't get the ball into the box because we had the wrong guys there.

Also, against a team like Colombia, we need to have the edge in the air. That means Birnbaum absolutely had to be out there. Putting Brooks, Birnbaum, Dempsey, and Cameron all on the field together would have improved our odds of scoring on setpieces. We also need guys that can still play. What are dinosaurs like Jones (no pace at age 34), Beckerman (no pace at age 34), and Wondo (never an international level player and 33) doing out there when we could have Finlay (a true pacey winger in his prime at 25) or Williams (starting for Reading, in his prime at 27)? And if you're that intent on forwards playing winger, why not go for guys like Arriola and Green who actually have pace and experience on the wing over Wondolowski, who at the international level has never impressed?

Should we have won yesterday? Probably not. We definitely should have drawn one back. I can't quibble over the result. The better team won. But the reality is when you go into a game playing a better team, you need the players and tactics that give you the best chance to take something out of it. We didn't do that. We got behind and never adapted. We had plenty of the ball but couldn't do anything with it in the final third. Our best opportunities all came off setpieces and we didn't have the best personnel out there to capitalize on that.

I really hope we can turn it around against Costa Rica. It will be such a completely different game, as they'll play in a shell with both teams likely hoping for a 1-0 win. But I'm kind of resigned to this just being how things go under Klinsmann. Best case scenario, we finish second in group and get excited about a semifinal in Chicago only to get blasted by Brazil in the quarters. Maybe blame the refs or blame the players not being good enough, but I know it won't be Klinsmann's fault. Just ask him...it never is.

Dempsey has never been a hold-up striker. That's what you're asking him to be here. The guy who receives the ball and waits for others to make runs. I don't like it, personally. He is much better working with a hold up guy like jozy.

Also, placing Fabian at the back is bananas. Taking one of the better LM/LW from the top German division and forcing him to LB severely limits our attacking potential.

Other than those two things, lots of good stuff here, brew.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 04, 2016, 01:12:12 PM
Dempsey has never been a hold-up striker. That's what you're asking him to be here. The guy who receives the ball and waits for others to make runs. I don't like it, personally. He is much better working with a hold up guy like jozy.

Also, placing Fabian at the back is bananas. Taking one of the better LM/LW from the top German division and forcing him to LB severely limits our attacking potential.

Other than those two things, lots of good stuff here, brew.

We don't have anyone at the forward position that really does hold up play, so I figure better interchanging guys up front. At least not right now with Altidore injured. Really just trying to make the best of our situation.

As far as Fabian, the problem is that we have no one else who can capably play left back. He's by far the best LB we have ever had. Not even close. And when playing for the US, I feel he's been better going forward from a deeper lying position than he has when he was actually playing on the wing. He makes fantastic overlapping runs. Give him a good winger that knows how to cover back and overlap and he's our best option there. The problem is really who you go with if you don't have Fab out there. Edgar Castillo? Eek.

While Fab is probably our best LMF, we have other guys that can play the position in our system, like Bedoya, Finlay, or Green. We don't have anyone else that can competently play LB.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on June 04, 2016, 01:26:36 PM
Do you really believe this?

I said that at halftime, they were without a doubt the better team in the first half.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 01:29:10 PM
I said that at halftime, they were without a doubt the better team in the first half.

Fair enough, I just never thought we were the better team during the game. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 06, 2016, 11:20:42 AM
I said that at halftime, they were without a doubt the better team in the first half.

At halftime the US put 0% of their shots on target. Colombia had put 71% of their shots on target by halftime.

For the entire game, the US put 17% of their shots on target to Colombia's 57%. Oh, and Colombia had more shots total.

Right now, I rate the US as the worst overall team in all of the tournament.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 06, 2016, 11:22:26 AM
At halftime the US put 0% of their shots on target. Colombia had put 71% of their shots on target by halftime.

For the entire game, the US put 17% of their shots on target to Colombia's 57%. Oh, and Colombia had more shots total.

Right now, I rate the US as the worst overall team in all of the tournament.

So....Jurgen has room for improvement?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 06, 2016, 11:26:32 AM
So....Jurgen has room for improvement?

Don't we all? Jurgen could start by:

1. playing guys in their proper positions
2. having some consistency in the lineups
3. taking accountability for his actions
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 06, 2016, 11:55:34 AM
Current Copa America rankings from my fledgling website.

http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/2016/06/06/copa-america-rankings-6-5/

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkSD-NFVEAAFqg5.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 06, 2016, 11:59:16 AM
Don't we all? Jurgen could start by:

1. playing guys in their proper positions
2. having some consistency in the lineups
3. taking accountability for his actions

I have never understood his damn near insistence that everyone play out of position....I think the team would be good if they just played everyone in their known position and left it at that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 07, 2016, 04:03:31 PM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/06/07/armchair-analyst-tactical-preview-usa-vs-costa-rica-copa-america

Couldn't be more correct. Get Fabian out on the wing where he belongs. And get Wood off the wing.

Quote
Johnson is our best and most creative passer in the final third, a guy who was essentially a Bundesliga All-Star on the wing this past season for a Champions League-bound team. There are few players in the world playing that spot at a higher level.

Playing him at left back eliminated him as an attacking threat. And because Bobby Wood -- a center forward who runs, but doesn't do a lot of clever positional defending -- was on the left wing, Johnson needed a ton of help from the midfield. That dragged Jermaine Jones out of the center and reduced the US numbers in central midfield, leaving Bradley stranded on an island.

Jones wasn't best pleased with the gameplan, saying afterward "We have three midfielders where I feel like if we have a good gameplan, we can put a lot of pressure on other teams. Today was more focused on Colombia and on the left side to help Fabi, so we lost one guy in midfield. So it was tougher to play, yeah."

Tactics! Strategy! Formation! They all matter.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 07, 2016, 11:37:14 PM
Colombia result good for the US. Draw most likely gets them in.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 08, 2016, 12:50:49 AM
So I had a thought. Based on your guys description of the USMNT personel and what I saw today, why wouldn't a 3-5-2 work?

Dempsey and Wood up top, Bedoya in a CAM role, Bradley and Jones as holding mids and Fabian and Yedlin as wing backs. Solves the LB problem and not having to put Fabian in a deeper role. Plus Dempsey and Wood are better in a 2 striker formation than on the wings or by themselves up top.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 08, 2016, 07:32:26 AM
So...thoughts based on yesterday...

It was certainly an interesting tactical plan. Seemed like we were happy to absorb pressure and counter attack early on, letting Costa Rica dictate the pace of play early on. I'll have to watch the replay today, but the Wood penalty looked like a complete non-foul from where I was sitting right behind that goal. My buddy and I were already yelling at Wood to get up before the ref pointed to the spot. Amazed he gave it. Costa Rica continued to dictate play after that, but needing to at least get a draw, had to go further forward.

I know they are renowned for a 5-4-1, but man that defense played like a 3-5-2 yesterday once they started really pushing. The Ticos left huge gaps at the back because their wing backs were bombing forward. Dempsey exploited those holes on a few occasions, though there were numerous other opportunities where he either missed the mark or missed a guy making a run.

Forwards: In general, poor, though they accounted for 2 goals. Dempsey was okay and it felt like he was basically playing the role of a distributing 10. Worked well for him, definitely better than his hold-up play. Wood was poor most of the match, but I imagine after drawing a penalty and scoring another quite a few would have him in for man of the match. While those two plays worked out great, on the whole I felt like he offered little. Though not as little as Zardes. Man, what does he do well? Not fast enough to be a winger, terrible first touch, not a great passer. His best plays on the night seemed to be when he was helping out on the back line. He's pretty clearly stuck out of position.

Midfielders: Jones had a very good game, though why he's playing as our left flank midfielder still baffles me. He's just not suited to be out on the wing. I think that Jones more than Wood is blocking Fabian moving up the pitch. And it's definitely by design, as he kept returning to that side. But yesterday, he was everywhere. Started a bit slowly, but once he got that first shot that went over, he just kicked it up. Made good runs, good defending, and of course the goal. After being terribly disappointed with his performance Friday, I think he'd be my man of the match. Bradley was also solid. Not spectacular, but held his position well, made a ton of good tackles, really looked comfortable playing a more traditional #6 role. Shocking...he was comfortable in his natural position. Bedoya, on the other hand, was fairly useless as well. He has no chemistry with Zardes and just doesn't seem to grasp his role. Maybe because he's used to playing on the left, maybe something else, but it was no surprise that all our positive attacks seemed to either come off the left or from Yedlin. Zusi looked good in relief and made quite a few positive plays before the goal.

Defenders: I was very, very impressed with our back line. Brooks did a great job staying at home and patrolling the center of the pitch. He's starting to take charge of the back line. Got caught out a couple times, but each time Cameron was back there to cover him. I've never been impressed by their partnership in the past, but they were solid yesterday. As were the backs. Both Johnson and Yedlin defended far better than I expected. Fab looked fantastic and had a good sense for when to push up and when to stay home. Also had a great reminder of how blazing fast Yedlin is in the second half when he came from out of nowhere to shut down a Tico on the flank that looked to have a wide open crossing opportunity.

Goalkeeper: Guzan was good. Made a few very good saves and made sure his back line kept their form. Nothing overly spectacular.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 08, 2016, 07:56:48 AM
So...thoughts based on yesterday...

It was certainly an interesting tactical plan. Seemed like we were happy to absorb pressure and counter attack early on, letting Costa Rica dictate the pace of play early on. I'll have to watch the replay today, but the Wood penalty looked like a complete non-foul from where I was sitting right behind that goal. My buddy and I were already yelling at Wood to get up before the ref pointed to the spot. Amazed he gave it. Costa Rica continued to dictate play after that, but needing to at least get a draw, had to go further forward.

I know they are renowned for a 5-4-1, but man that defense played like a 3-5-2 yesterday once they started really pushing. The Ticos left huge gaps at the back because their wing backs were bombing forward. Dempsey exploited those holes on a few occasions, though there were numerous other opportunities where he either missed the mark or missed a guy making a run.

Forwards: In general, poor, though they accounted for 2 goals. Dempsey was okay and it felt like he was basically playing the role of a distributing 10. Worked well for him, definitely better than his hold-up play. Wood was poor most of the match, but I imagine after drawing a penalty and scoring another quite a few would have him in for man of the match. While those two plays worked out great, on the whole I felt like he offered little. Though not as little as Zardes. Man, what does he do well? Not fast enough to be a winger, terrible first touch, not a great passer. His best plays on the night seemed to be when he was helping out on the back line. He's pretty clearly stuck out of position.

Midfielders: Jones had a very good game, though why he's playing as our left flank midfielder still baffles me. He's just not suited to be out on the wing. I think that Jones more than Wood is blocking Fabian moving up the pitch. And it's definitely by design, as he kept returning to that side. But yesterday, he was everywhere. Started a bit slowly, but once he got that first shot that went over, he just kicked it up. Made good runs, good defending, and of course the goal. After being terribly disappointed with his performance Friday, I think he'd be my man of the match. Bradley was also solid. Not spectacular, but held his position well, made a ton of good tackles, really looked comfortable playing a more traditional #6 role. Shocking...he was comfortable in his natural position. Bedoya, on the other hand, was fairly useless as well. He has no chemistry with Zardes and just doesn't seem to grasp his role. Maybe because he's used to playing on the left, maybe something else, but it was no surprise that all our positive attacks seemed to either come off the left or from Yedlin. Zusi looked good in relief and made quite a few positive plays before the goal.

Defenders: I was very, very impressed with our back line. Brooks did a great job staying at home and patrolling the center of the pitch. He's starting to take charge of the back line. Got caught out a couple times, but each time Cameron was back there to cover him. I've never been impressed by their partnership in the past, but they were solid yesterday. As were the backs. Both Johnson and Yedlin defended far better than I expected. Fab looked fantastic and had a good sense for when to push up and when to stay home. Also had a great reminder of how blazing fast Yedlin is in the second half when he came from out of nowhere to shut down a Tico on the flank that looked to have a wide open crossing opportunity.

Goalkeeper: Guzan was good. Made a few very good saves and made sure his back line kept their form. Nothing overly spectacular.

Overall good analysis. The PK on Wood was definitely a foul, or at least the Costa Rican defender gave the official every reason to believe it was a foul. He extended his arms and made contact with Wood....whether he went down easy or not is difficult to say but I think it's a penalty he has to give.

Zardes absolutely needs to be a central forward if we are playing a 4-3-3. He is a striker through and through, why we insist on making him a winger is beyond me. Could have cost us a couple of times as he lost his man when he was tracking back on defense, I think just because he's not really use to do that.

The insistence on Bedoya over other players still baffles me. I just don't see what talent he brings that others don't have more of.

Also thought Dempsey played one of his worst national games to date and just got lucky with a couple of ooppss that bounced USMNT's way.

Overall, I thought it was a solid game tactically from Jurgen. Absorb the pressure and counter, not sure it was the right personnel for it(could have been 5 or 6 to zero) but it was still solid.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 08, 2016, 08:11:30 AM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/06/07/armchair-analyst-tactical-preview-usa-vs-costa-rica-copa-america

Couldn't be more correct. Get Fabian out on the wing where he belongs. And get Wood off the wing.

I don't rate Edgar Castillo at all, which is why I like Fab back there. We just don't have another competent left back. Agree with getting Wood off the wing, and Jones as well (though he played great yesterday). I'm not sure why JK is so married to this 4-3-3.

I think that's what really stunts Fabian. Right now, for him to push up, he has to overlap both Jones and Wood. Same goes with Yedlin on the right regarding Zardes and Bedoya. If we were to run a 4-5-1 or 4-4-2, there would be more space on the flank for him to operate and push forward. Give him a competent left mid that can cover back and it would really suit his style of play. But again...we don't have any other competent left backs and we run a system that makes it hard for our fullbacks to get forward.

Colombia result good for the US. Draw most likely gets them in.

Barring Costa Rica putting up a 6-0 on Colombia, we're in with a draw. More interesting, though, is that if the USA were to win, any Costa Rica win would put us atop the group. I don't expect that, as I figure even if Colombia puts it on cruise control the Ticos probably won't score enough to get more than a draw, but there's a sliver of a chance.

So I had a thought. Based on your guys description of the USMNT personel and what I saw today, why wouldn't a 3-5-2 work?

Dempsey and Wood up top, Bedoya in a CAM role, Bradley and Jones as holding mids and Fabian and Yedlin as wing backs. Solves the LB problem and not having to put Fabian in a deeper role. Plus Dempsey and Wood are better in a 2 striker formation than on the wings or by themselves up top.

If we went that route, I'd probably go a bit differently. Brooks in between Birnbaum and Cameron. Gets our best central defenders and best header of the ball out there for setpieces. Fab and Yedlin would have freedom to move up the pitch. I'd get Bedoya the hell out of there (along with Zardes). Bradley and Jones works fine, let Bradley stay home and launch over the top while Jones has freedom to run. Then have Nagbe, Dempsey, and...umm...I guess Wood (Altidore when healthy) up front. I could see it working...

...though last night, that was basically what Costa Rica ran once they went down a goal, and it left them wide open at the back. With the fullbacks having no cushion or cover back, the three center backs were spread out, which left gaping holes at the back. I know any 4-0 result is going to be the anomaly, but my fear with that formation is that it leaves so much open space at the back. Would be okay against teams like Guatemala, Costa Rica, and the lesser CONCACAF teams that like to bunker in, but I fear that the teams that play more aggressively like Mexico or even Jamaica would take advantage of the added space.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 08, 2016, 11:03:15 AM
Nice analysis, brew.

I'm going to also pimp my own stuff here.

http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/2016/06/08/second-game-changes-things-usmnt/

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 08, 2016, 11:18:01 AM
Nice analysis, brew.

I'm going to also pimp my own stuff here.

http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/2016/06/08/second-game-changes-things-usmnt/

Henry, love the stats as always...couple of questions for you.

You mentioned the offensive finishing and the US getting lucky, which I can't argue with....but how do you differentiate between a bad shot on target that goes in versus a good shot that is off target from a qualitative standpoint? As an example, there was a shot Zardes "Wondo'ed" from 10 yrs out on the right side of the goal. Everything was done perfectly to get in that position and then he squandered that, how is that not unlucky?

Not necessarily rated to anything, just curious...what's the driving force for you to create this new site. I think it's interesting and something I'll need to visit more. I'm guessing it's because soccer is one of the last bastion of professional sports to essentially reject the value of advanced metrics and analytics (sabermetrics if you will). Either way, any thoughts as to how that starts to change? Will it require technology changes/acceptance to start to get telemetry on these players, etc?

Thanks, I'll hang up and listen to your response.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 08, 2016, 12:02:54 PM
Henry, love the stats as always...couple of questions for you.

You mentioned the offensive finishing and the US getting lucky, which I can't argue with....but how do you differentiate between a bad shot on target that goes in versus a good shot that is off target from a qualitative standpoint? As an example, there was a shot Zardes "Wondo'ed" from 10 yrs out on the right side of the goal. Everything was done perfectly to get in that position and then he squandered that, how is that not unlucky?

Not necessarily rated to anything, just curious...what's the driving force for you to create this new site. I think it's interesting and something I'll need to visit more. I'm guessing it's because soccer is one of the last bastion of professional sports to essentially reject the value of advanced metrics and analytics (sabermetrics if you will). Either way, any thoughts as to how that starts to change? Will it require technology changes/acceptance to start to get telemetry on these players, etc?

Thanks, I'll hang up and listen to your response.

Appreciate the questions. I actually wrote about why I started the website on the site itself. If anyone wants to really know a little more about me, there's more there. Even talks a bit about Cracked Sidewalks...

http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/my-story/

The tl;dr version is that I wanted to figure out why the Fire kept getting draws in 2014 and couldn't find any data on it.

Most of the data out there is poorly organized and the language of how people talk about soccer is not analytical. I'm trying to approach this to figure out some basic questions regarding teams. Like, is my team actually any good? Do they have a good offense or defense? Why?

I'm purposely focusing on high-level type stats to broaden the audience. I'm targeting the tailgate crowd initially and will do random detailed analysis to keep my "nerd cred". Partially, I'm doing high-level because that's the type of data that I have available. It's also simpler to understand. Figuring out which team had better shot quality is a ratio that my fifth grader can solve (4/12 > 2/10). In addition, because soccer stats are in their infancy, we need to get people up to speed on the basics. Or even figure out the basics. Last, I focus on this because those are the types of questions I find interesting.

To your question of a bad shot on target vs a good shot off target, that gets to a level deeper than I'm currently presenting. However, there are lots of people that have created expected Goal (xG) models. Most xG models work with the idea that shots from certain areas will go in the net x% of the time. A shot right in the box scores 60% of the time or whatever. One of those shots is worth 0.6 xG. Over time, goals tend to equal expected goals. xG is the "next layer of the onion".  Eventually, when I'm ready to pay for the API and hire a developer, I'll probably develop my own xG model or use someone else's.

Because people understand the concept here, my goal is to eventually become the Pomeroy for soccer. And again, I'm really doing this because I want the information and it's not out there. If there was already a Pomeroy for soccer, I wouldn't need to put in the effort. But I'm really making a serious go at this.

Since I'm sharing, I do have a general request, which people can take offline via PM if preferred. If there's any feedback about the site or the stats or if there are suggestions, please provide them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 08, 2016, 12:30:35 PM
So I had a thought. Based on your guys description of the USMNT personel and what I saw today, why wouldn't a 3-5-2 work?

Dempsey and Wood up top, Bedoya in a CAM role, Bradley and Jones as holding mids and Fabian and Yedlin as wing backs. Solves the LB problem and not having to put Fabian in a deeper role. Plus Dempsey and Wood are better in a 2 striker formation than on the wings or by themselves up top.

I'm unsure either Brooks or Cameron is steady enough to anchor a back three. It also could leave a ton of room to exploit which already is no issue against Yedlin, who gambles far too much. Johnson is better at the two way play but he's also not exactly shy in pressing hard. Bradley covers a ton of ground but with all the work he'd have to put in defensively you may lose him as the initial supplier of a counter which has always been his strength.

It seems as if JK plays roulette with formations so I don't see much harm in a test period. But it would need to be a total commitment and I don't see the time period in the schedule where that's possible.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 08, 2016, 12:42:36 PM
If you're looking for some supplementary stuff, check out Ted Knutson. He's on Twitter, I think his handle is @mixedknuts. He has some fantastic in-depth analysis of individual players.

As far as the shot that Zardes Wondo'd (love that, btw) all I could think at the time was that his first touch is god awful. Amazed me last night how time and time again he would get in great position only to fumble a first touch, or secure a first touch and overhit the second. It seems like the nerves in his feet aren't connected to the rest of his body and brain.

Really, it's amazing he's become such a lock for this team. Kid had a fantastic 2014 MLS campaign, but has done little since for either the Galaxy or the NT. Just doesn't look like an international player out there. I think he's actually more effective tracking back and helping out in defense than he is joining the attack.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 08, 2016, 01:12:15 PM
If you're looking for some supplementary stuff, check out Ted Knutson. He's on Twitter, I think his handle is @mixedknuts. He has some fantastic in-depth analysis of individual players.

Yeah, I've been following him for ages. The radars are great, and I'd love to have access to the same data for MLS or the USMNT.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 08, 2016, 07:56:28 PM
Good stuff here:

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2016/06/07/three-things-we-learned-from-usa-4-0-costa-rica/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 08, 2016, 07:57:06 PM
Appreciate the questions. I actually wrote about why I started the website on the site itself. If anyone wants to really know a little more about me, there's more there. Even talks a bit about Cracked Sidewalks...

http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/my-story/

The tl;dr version is that I wanted to figure out why the Fire kept getting draws in 2014 and couldn't find any data on it.

Most of the data out there is poorly organized and the language of how people talk about soccer is not analytical. I'm trying to approach this to figure out some basic questions regarding teams. Like, is my team actually any good? Do they have a good offense or defense? Why?

I'm purposely focusing on high-level type stats to broaden the audience. I'm targeting the tailgate crowd initially and will do random detailed analysis to keep my "nerd cred". Partially, I'm doing high-level because that's the type of data that I have available. It's also simpler to understand. Figuring out which team had better shot quality is a ratio that my fifth grader can solve (4/12 > 2/10). In addition, because soccer stats are in their infancy, we need to get people up to speed on the basics. Or even figure out the basics. Last, I focus on this because those are the types of questions I find interesting.

To your question of a bad shot on target vs a good shot off target, that gets to a level deeper than I'm currently presenting. However, there are lots of people that have created expected Goal (xG) models. Most xG models work with the idea that shots from certain areas will go in the net x% of the time. A shot right in the box scores 60% of the time or whatever. One of those shots is worth 0.6 xG. Over time, goals tend to equal expected goals. xG is the "next layer of the onion".  Eventually, when I'm ready to pay for the API and hire a developer, I'll probably develop my own xG model or use someone else's.

Because people understand the concept here, my goal is to eventually become the Pomeroy for soccer. And again, I'm really doing this because I want the information and it's not out there. If there was already a Pomeroy for soccer, I wouldn't need to put in the effort. But I'm really making a serious go at this.

Since I'm sharing, I do have a general request, which people can take offline via PM if preferred. If there's any feedback about the site or the stats or if there are suggestions, please provide them.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe expected goals vs Colombia and CR were almost the same. Crazy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 09, 2016, 07:17:39 AM
If I'm not mistaken, I believe expected goals vs Colombia and CR were almost the same. Crazy.

Were they really? Do you have the numbers?

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 09, 2016, 09:10:48 AM
Were they really? Do you have the numbers?

It was a tweet. This is all I have.

https://twitter.com/PCarrESPN/status/740363746871148544

Found this in the responses. Seems like a guy bringing advanced stats to soccer like you.

https://twitter.com/MC_of_A/status/740365526304739329
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 09, 2016, 09:30:07 AM
Just cracking open your site, definitely in the basic mode right now but I can see the potential. Not sure what else you've looked at. I think because of the size and scope of the game, that's why there aren't as many hard analytics.

Take Bobby Wood the other night. Drew a penalty, scored a goal, put at least one other "shot" on target. Based on that, most ratings I saw gave him something in the 6.5 to 7.5 range. But watching live...he looked ghastly. Quite a few squandered opportunities and lost balls. His other shot on target was a softball lob straight to the keeper that a 4-year-old could have stopped. Penalty was, in my eyes, dubious at best. The goal was excellent. A true striker's goal where he did all the right things, including keeping his head down and trusting his accuracy, not looking up at the goal until after the strike was en route (are you paying attention, Gyasi Zardes?) to the corner of the net.

But all the bad things go unacknowledged so people only focus on the "he scored" aspect and think he played well. I'd love to see more detail of stuff like runs made, offside tendencies, crosses, tackles, tackles without fouling (especially in the box), pass completion percentage...put it all together to bring player ratings in along with the team ratings.

One thing that has always kind of bugged me about soccer, and I think it started when I was first playing Winning Eleven 6 (before it became Pro Evo in the States) was how players would be given their game rating. No idea how it calculated why my CMF that I thought did well, won balls, and passed accurately ended up with a 5.5 but the striker that was off target 90% of the time but got one goal ended up with a 7.5 and man of the match.

I think a true calculation on the 0-10 scale would be fantastic. Something where you could actually point to the data and not just say "Player X was man of the match" but could statistically demonstrate WHY he was man of the match. Of course, I'm not sure that would be possible without a ton of in-depth information, getting all the passing/tackle/scoring/shot/cross/possession/save statistics and finding a way to balance them between the positions, and figuring out how to balance it for defensive changes that leave guys marking players not typically their responsibility (such as Cameron losing his mark on the corner against Colombia, a defender, though he would typically be marking a forward in open play).

Just a few random thoughts. Looks good. Can't wait to see it develop.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 09, 2016, 09:48:38 AM
Just cracking open your site, definitely in the basic mode right now but I can see the potential. Not sure what else you've looked at. I think because of the size and scope of the game, that's why there aren't as many hard analytics.

Take Bobby Wood the other night. Drew a penalty, scored a goal, put at least one other "shot" on target. Based on that, most ratings I saw gave him something in the 6.5 to 7.5 range. But watching live...he looked ghastly. Quite a few squandered opportunities and lost balls. His other shot on target was a softball lob straight to the keeper that a 4-year-old could have stopped. Penalty was, in my eyes, dubious at best. The goal was excellent. A true striker's goal where he did all the right things, including keeping his head down and trusting his accuracy, not looking up at the goal until after the strike was en route (are you paying attention, Gyasi Zardes?) to the corner of the net.

But all the bad things go unacknowledged so people only focus on the "he scored" aspect and think he played well. I'd love to see more detail of stuff like runs made, offside tendencies, crosses, tackles, tackles without fouling (especially in the box), pass completion percentage...put it all together to bring player ratings in along with the team ratings.

One thing that has always kind of bugged me about soccer, and I think it started when I was first playing Winning Eleven 6 (before it became Pro Evo in the States) was how players would be given their game rating. No idea how it calculated why my CMF that I thought did well, won balls, and passed accurately ended up with a 5.5 but the striker that was off target 90% of the time but got one goal ended up with a 7.5 and man of the match.

I think a true calculation on the 0-10 scale would be fantastic. Something where you could actually point to the data and not just say "Player X was man of the match" but could statistically demonstrate WHY he was man of the match. Of course, I'm not sure that would be possible without a ton of in-depth information, getting all the passing/tackle/scoring/shot/cross/possession/save statistics and finding a way to balance them between the positions, and figuring out how to balance it for defensive changes that leave guys marking players not typically their responsibility (such as Cameron losing his mark on the corner against Colombia, a defender, though he would typically be marking a forward in open play).

Just a few random thoughts. Looks good. Can't wait to see it develop.

I'm using your Wood comments as a spring board for a deeper thought about analytics in soccer. The Bobby Wood goal was indeed a classic strikers goal, and evidence I would argue(Taylor Twellmen disagrees I guess) that good should be playing centrally, not as a winger. From an analytics standpoint, how do you divorce formation/position from ability/performance? I think statistically(and visually for me at least) I thought Wood and Dempsey had sub par games but all of the traditional stats would say they were good and/or great....but I also think some of the sub par performance is related to the formation at play. I think there needs to be some recognition that with soccer, probably more than any sport, that where/how you are playing on the field can account for a large portion of your ability to perform.

Just my rambling for the day.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 09, 2016, 10:09:35 AM
It was a tweet. This is all I have.

https://twitter.com/PCarrESPN/status/740363746871148544

Found this in the responses. Seems like a guy bringing advanced stats to soccer like you.

https://twitter.com/MC_of_A/status/740365526304739329

yeah, Michael Caley is the biggest name putting out xG. He and Mike Goodman (who wrote for Grantland and StatsBomb) just started a podcast called "The Double Pivot". I have downloaded the first two episodes but haven't listened yet.

I generally agree with his numbers. 1.4 xG + a penalty. The US scored four goals, but they only had 5 shots on target. If 33% of shots on target go in, that's roughly 1.7 xG.

By the way, if anyone wants to go down the rabbit hole, this is a good starting point.

http://statsbomb.com/2016/06/good-ideas-and-lessons-learned/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 09, 2016, 10:14:51 AM
I'm using your Wood comments as a spring board for a deeper thought about analytics in soccer. The Bobby Wood goal was indeed a classic strikers goal, and evidence I would argue(Taylor Twellmen disagrees I guess) that good should be playing centrally, not as a winger. From an analytics standpoint, how do you divorce formation/position from ability/performance? I think statistically(and visually for me at least) I thought Wood and Dempsey had sub par games but all of the traditional stats would say they were good and/or great....but I also think some of the sub par performance is related to the formation at play. I think there needs to be some recognition that with soccer, probably more than any sport, that where/how you are playing on the field can account for a large portion of your ability to perform.

Just my rambling for the day.

Agreed. Players' natural instincts on things like off-the-ball runs, positioning, etc. play a huge aspect. Identifying player tendencies such as those are tough. Putting a player at a position in a formation to take advantage of those tendencies will make them, and the team, better. Forcing them into another situation forces them to re-adjust their mindset, typically to a detriment. At the very least, they have to actively think about what they're doing, which means they are slower to react to the run of play.

You can tell Wood was all instincts on his goal. Not actively thinking about what he was doing. He looks slower/inhibited when playing the wing. He makes constant middle runs (striker runs) when on the wing, which clogs the middle if someone else (Dempsey) is there. Not sure who realized it (Wood, Dempsey, Klins), but against CR, Dempsey would make a run to the wing if Wood came inside, which dramatically changed the effectiveness of those runs and forced the CR defense to make adjustments.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 09, 2016, 10:18:04 AM
Just cracking open your site, definitely in the basic mode right now but I can see the potential. Not sure what else you've looked at. I think because of the size and scope of the game, that's why there aren't as many hard analytics.

Take Bobby Wood the other night. Drew a penalty, scored a goal, put at least one other "shot" on target. Based on that, most ratings I saw gave him something in the 6.5 to 7.5 range. But watching live...he looked ghastly. Quite a few squandered opportunities and lost balls. His other shot on target was a softball lob straight to the keeper that a 4-year-old could have stopped. Penalty was, in my eyes, dubious at best. The goal was excellent. A true striker's goal where he did all the right things, including keeping his head down and trusting his accuracy, not looking up at the goal until after the strike was en route (are you paying attention, Gyasi Zardes?) to the corner of the net.

But all the bad things go unacknowledged so people only focus on the "he scored" aspect and think he played well. I'd love to see more detail of stuff like runs made, offside tendencies, crosses, tackles, tackles without fouling (especially in the box), pass completion percentage...put it all together to bring player ratings in along with the team ratings.

One thing that has always kind of bugged me about soccer, and I think it started when I was first playing Winning Eleven 6 (before it became Pro Evo in the States) was how players would be given their game rating. No idea how it calculated why my CMF that I thought did well, won balls, and passed accurately ended up with a 5.5 but the striker that was off target 90% of the time but got one goal ended up with a 7.5 and man of the match.

I think a true calculation on the 0-10 scale would be fantastic. Something where you could actually point to the data and not just say "Player X was man of the match" but could statistically demonstrate WHY he was man of the match. Of course, I'm not sure that would be possible without a ton of in-depth information, getting all the passing/tackle/scoring/shot/cross/possession/save statistics and finding a way to balance them between the positions, and figuring out how to balance it for defensive changes that leave guys marking players not typically their responsibility (such as Cameron losing his mark on the corner against Colombia, a defender, though he would typically be marking a forward in open play).

Just a few random thoughts. Looks good. Can't wait to see it develop.

Appreciate the feedback about the player approach. Once I pay for the API, I'll have access to individual player data. That will open up a world of information. Right now, however, I have to go to each game and then enter data into a spreadsheet manually, and then load it onto the site. Player data is too hard to do manually.

By the way, along with the Copa information, I'll have the Euro 2016 data on the site too.

@LoweDownStats
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 09, 2016, 05:48:07 PM
Anybody going to the game tomorrow?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 09, 2016, 09:00:28 PM
Anybody going to the game tomorrow?

Yeah, with a buddy from work. Hope Messi plays, he's the main reason we got tickets.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 10, 2016, 07:04:03 PM
Man, soldier field looks absolutely stunning. Stadium is perfect to watch a soccer match.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 11, 2016, 12:55:27 AM
I had an unbelievable angle for that Messi free kick. Also managed to get it in video. Before he took it I was like, I'm gonna record this just incase.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 11, 2016, 08:53:12 PM
Had neighbors over so could only sneak peaks of the 2nd half but looked like a much more typical US effort than the Columbia game. Officiating seemed shaky and Zardes Wondo'd again...but I'll take the win and hope Columbia can choke out a loss
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 11, 2016, 08:55:22 PM
John Brooks was the MVP.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 11, 2016, 09:47:57 PM
John Brooks was the MVP.

Definitely, Guzan was a close 2nd....some very big saves when it mattered most.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 11, 2016, 10:13:36 PM
Wow...Colombia makes ten changes to the starting lineup and gets stunned by the Ticos. Just like that, we win the group. Quite the 8-day change of fortune.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 11, 2016, 11:01:28 PM
Wow...Colombia makes ten changes to the starting lineup and gets stunned by the Ticos. Just like that, we win the group. Quite the 8-day change of fortune.

I wouldn't say stunned. After their starting 11 and Sanchez, they're not very good. I had a bad feeling after I saw their starting lineup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 11, 2016, 11:12:07 PM
I wouldn't say stunned. After their starting 11 and Sanchez, they're not very good. I had a bad feeling after I saw their starting lineup.

Pretty sure Pekerman saw their performance against us and thought even a weak squad could manage a draw. I don't think they expected to ever be down 3-1 to that team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 12, 2016, 01:35:55 PM
I wouldn't say stunned. After their starting 11 and Sanchez, they're not very good. I had a bad feeling after I saw their starting lineup.

For a national program that considers itself part of the elite in the world, the lack of depth would typically create a discusion as to how serious a contender they could be in any competition.

And it was a surprise. They had 45 minutes of their best player and 35 of their second best player as well as a Costan Rican squad that wasn't filled out with all first choice selections. Mostly, though, it showed Pekerman has lost it. Keepers don't need rest and not fielding Ospina was an odd choice.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 12, 2016, 01:44:04 PM
For a national program that considers itself part of the elite in the world, the lack of depth would typically create a discusion as to how serious a contender they could be in any competition.

They lack depth in this tournament. This isn't their normal team. They don't have 3 of their 4 best strikers (Falcao, Martinez and Teo) missing 4 of their best midfielders (Guarin, Aguilar, Quintero, and Ibarbo) their starting left back in Zuniga, one of their right back choices in Armero and their backup keeper Vargas.

Fabra is like their 3rd or 4th string left back and even Germany and Belgium would struggle with that and the strikers that played last night barely have any caps.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 12, 2016, 06:26:59 PM
Never really got to USA thoughts on last night's match. Here goes, back to front...

Goalkeeper: Guzan was excellent. 4 of his 6 saves were point blank. Did a good job of knowing when to come at the attacker and make himself big. One of his better performances in net I've ever seen. Paraguay tested him and he answered the bell every time.

Defenders: John Brooks was, for me, the clear man of the match. Played with Onyewu's physicality and Bocanegra's composure and headiness. Amazing that he's only 23. The rest of the defense was okay. Obviously Yedlin's red card was dumb. You can't take two cards a minute apart. You just can't. Johnson was good, Cameron did well, just can't get over how good Brooks was. He's grown up so much in the past 2 years.

Midfielders: I'm so sick of Jones playing out on the wing. Every successful run he has requires him to fend off two or three tackles because he can't outrun a tortoise. Bedoya also just doesn't do it for me. Seems he rarely offers much forward, isn't a great defender, just don't get what he's doing out there. Zusi looked better when he came on. Bradley was okay. Not spectacular, but marshaled the defense and possession when we went a man down and needed him to keep things under control.

Forwards: Dempsey got one good chance and made the most of it, also had a decent free kick effort. Did everything you want him to do. Zardes, assist aside, was again bad. Couldn't get a shot off when he was 1v1 with the keeper, poor first touch, mediocre passing, some people were praising his assist, but it was the total blind squirrel finding a nut moment for him. Wood had a rough start, but once we went a man down and Dempsey came off, he stepped into the middle and did well. Drew fouls, put pressure on the defense enough to keep them honest, he's clearly better suited for the middle of the pitch.

All in all, a solid effort. I felt we were definitely the better team for the first 50 or so minutes until the red card, then we did what we had to in order to guarantee advancement. Klinsmann stuck with the same lineup that is generally working and did a nice job shifting to a defensive focus a man down. I'm still not a fan, but Klinsmann did what he needed to do to win the group and he deserves credit for that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 12, 2016, 10:29:41 PM
Just bought my tickets to the semi finals at soldier field. So giddy at the prospect of seeing colombia. It would be the ultimate highlight of all the sporting events I've attended thus far.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 12, 2016, 10:33:48 PM
Brazil eliminated on the worst missed handball since Torsten Frings palmed a goal off the line in 2002. Seriously...that was ridiculous.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 12, 2016, 10:46:32 PM
Brazil eliminated on the worst missed handball since Torsten Frings palmed a goal off the line in 2002. Seriously...that was ridiculous.

There were some worse ones. Suarez vs Ghana in 2010 and Henry vs Ireland in 2010. All in all I feel no sympathy for Brazil. This is the least that could have happened to them for all the diving and rolling on the ground for decades.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 13, 2016, 08:16:53 AM
There were some worse ones. Suarez vs Ghana in 2010 and Henry vs Ireland in 2010. All in all I feel no sympathy for Brazil. This is the least that could have happened to them for all the diving and rolling on the ground for decades.

Oh come on, while Brazil are big floppers that pretty much describes every Latin American team ever, I don't think Brazil was any worse at that then anyone else from the region.

Brazil deserved the loss because they played like they could take it easy in the group stage and just turn it on in knockout rounds. They also deserved to lose because they haven't made any changes of significance since their thrashing in the semis of the World Cup when they were exposed as a bunch of individual talents that had no apparently ability to play the beautiful game together. Stoppage time last night was very telling for the state of Brazilian soccer, relatively easily dispossed, a lot of individual dribbling and once in the attacking third a bunch of standing around waiting to make a run into open space that no one is creating.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 13, 2016, 08:46:07 AM
Kind of inexcusable that they don't have the ability to view video replay at tournaments at that level.  That question could have been resolved very quickly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 13, 2016, 09:08:57 AM
They lack depth in this tournament. This isn't their normal team. They don't have 3 of their 4 best strikers (Falcao, Martinez and Teo) missing 4 of their best midfielders (Guarin, Aguilar, Quintero, and Ibarbo) their starting left back in Zuniga, one of their right back choices in Armero and their backup keeper Vargas.

Fabra is like their 3rd or 4th string left back and even Germany and Belgium would struggle with that and the strikers that played last night barely have any caps.

As I wrote, it begs the question of their legitimate chances. Especially so if you consider Falcao one of their best options up top.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 13, 2016, 09:33:07 AM
There were some worse ones. Suarez vs Ghana in 2010 and Henry vs Ireland in 2010. All in all I feel no sympathy for Brazil. This is the least that could have happened to them for all the diving and rolling on the ground for decades.

But the referee got that one right. A penalty was given and Suarez was sent off.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 13, 2016, 09:35:09 AM
There were some worse ones. Suarez vs Ghana in 2010 and Henry vs Ireland in 2010. All in all I feel no sympathy for Brazil. This is the least that could have happened to them for all the diving and rolling on the ground for decades.

Lol at a Colombian (or any Latin America team fan) fan disparaging another team for flopping.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 13, 2016, 09:37:22 AM
Kind of inexcusable that they don't have the ability to view video replay at tournaments at that level.  That question could have been resolved very quickly.

Agreed. Have a video booth at the governing body (UEFA, FIFA, CONCACAF, etc), with a headset that speaks directly to them. It would take no more than 5 minutes in total.

Another option is placing 5th/6th officials on both endlines.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 13, 2016, 09:45:08 AM
Agreed. Have a video booth at the governing body (UEFA, FIFA, CONCACAF, etc), with a headset that speaks directly to them. It would take no more than 5 minutes in total.

Another option is placing 5th/6th officials on both endlines.


Certainly would have taken less time than the match official actually took to make the wrong call. Still have no idea what the fook he was doing all that time and why everyone was acting as if they were discussing state secrets in a room full of lip readers.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 13, 2016, 10:18:31 AM
As I wrote, it begs the question of their legitimate chances. Especially so if you consider Falcao one of their best options up top.

If Falcao is healthy,  he is absolutely still one if their best options. Unfortunately, he hasn't been since his ACL injury.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 13, 2016, 10:33:56 AM
Lol at a Colombian (or any Latin America team fan) fan disparaging another team for flopping.

Yup, as does everyone from Panama, to Italy to Germany. I hate flopping. Half the time I watch Colombia games usually involves me yelling at the TV for Cuadrado to get up. But Neymar is on another level.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 13, 2016, 11:18:00 AM
If Falcao is healthy,  he is absolutely still one if their best options. Unfortunately, he hasn't been since his ACL injury.

Wasn't that like two and a half years ago?  I think at this point that may need to be written off.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 13, 2016, 11:21:02 AM
Wasn't that like two and a half years ago?  I think at this point that may need to be written off.

Yea, it's almost turned into a Derrick Rose esq, mental block. Also hasn't played much at the club level since he went to England. It's just so hard to write him off because for the longest time, he was the only positive on some really bad Colombian teams and he is the top goal scorer in Colombian history.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 13, 2016, 11:22:07 AM
Never really got to USA thoughts on last night's match. Here goes, back to front...

Midfielders: I'm so sick of Jones playing out on the wing. Every successful run he has requires him to fend off two or three tackles because he can't outrun a tortoise. Bedoya also just doesn't do it for me. Seems he rarely offers much forward, isn't a great defender, just don't get what he's doing out there. Zusi looked better when he came on. Bradley was okay. Not spectacular, but marshaled the defense and possession when we went a man down and needed him to keep things under control.


http://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2016/6/13/11914482/usmnt-v-paraguay-copa-america-2016-stock-up-stock-down

Quote
Bedoya often gets a good bit of flack. He's not the flashiest of players and sometimes ends up being forgotten. However, he is a consistent performer and a dedicated hard worker. On the ball, he was tidy and concise. While he didn't make a lot of charging runs into the box, Bedoya helped retain possession and did a lot in the background to reduce the strain on Jones and Bradley. On the defensive end, he was an absolute workhorse. He dedicated himself as a two-way player, always tracking back to help out, first Yedlin, and then Orozco on defense. Thanks to Bedoya, Paraguay found little headway through that right flank.

This echoes my feelings on Bedoya. He's rarely going to get rated a 8+, but he'll always work hard and rarely be in poor form.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on June 13, 2016, 01:50:36 PM
Does this happen in any other sport?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/11/euro-2016-french-police-tactics-raise-fears-of-more-clashes-with-england-fans

Lots of fans "in hospital."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 13, 2016, 08:13:57 PM
If Falcao is healthy,  he is absolutely still one if their best options. Unfortunately, he hasn't been since his ACL injury.

Hey, if we're dealing in fantasy then I might as well proclaim Dempsey the best young forward in America. Unfortunately, he's 34.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 16, 2016, 04:38:37 PM
Who ya got? I say 2-1 US in extra time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 16, 2016, 06:10:18 PM
Who ya got? I say 2-1 US in extra time.

No extra time in this tournament.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 16, 2016, 10:10:03 PM
Can we talk about how silly the two yellow card suspension is? If it's 2 in one game or a straight red, sure suspend them but if theyre gonna do this cumulative crap at least have it reset after the group stage.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 16, 2016, 10:35:56 PM
How bout that prediction though?  8-)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: injuryBug on June 16, 2016, 10:39:07 PM
Can we talk about how silly the two yellow card suspension is? If it's 2 in one game or a straight red, sure suspend them but if theyre gonna do this cumulative crap at least have it reset after the group stage.

No kidding never understood that rule, but we do get 2 days extra rest
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 17, 2016, 06:50:00 AM
Can anyone explain why Jurgen was at least 3 minutes too late with every sub?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 17, 2016, 08:24:36 AM
Can we talk about how silly the two yellow card suspension is? If it's 2 in one game or a straight red, sure suspend them but if theyre gonna do this cumulative crap at least have it reset after the group stage.

Agreed. In a bigger tournament you can reset after the first knockout (like the World Cup or I guess now Euros) but what the hell is the point of resetting after the quarters? So now there's no accumulation in the semi and the final? Do the rule-makers understand how the sport even works? If someone gets a yellow in the semi and the final, they won't be suspended because the tournament will be over! Stupid rule. Should have reset prior to last night.

Thoughts for last night...
.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 17, 2016, 08:52:31 AM
Now...thoughts going forward (I'm looking at you, Argentina).

The suspensions: Jermaine's red card was stupid, Bedoya's yellow card was stupid, and as much as I am growing to appreciate Bobby Wood's game, his temper needs to get under control because every time he thinks he's fouled it looks like he deserves a yellow for dissent. Getting Yedlin back will help, but we lose 2/3 of our midfield and our best attacking option going forward.

How to beat Argentina: Herb Brooks' speech in Miracle included this gem: "You don't defend them, you ATTACK them. You take their game and you shove it right back in their face!" He was talking about the 1980 Soviet hockey team, but it applies to Argentina as well. Watching Argentina, they are the type of team that scores more from the run of play than from counters. They like the build-up, working it around, probing the defense, then exploiting the weaknesses. I don't care how good you are, they are ultimately going to find a weakness. How have most teams played them? They try to put the emphasis on defense, holding out, and hoping to steal one on the counter. Ask Panama how well that worked for them.

What you have to do is attack. Using the Three Factors (http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/copa-america-aggregate-rankings/copa-america-three-factors/) we can see that Argentina is best at not allowing shots but second worst (Haiti) at allowing quality shots. The reason their shot disparity is so great is because teams are afraid to attack them, yet when they do, Argentina allows shots on target. So how do you exploit that? Attack. Get a high volume of shots and count on Argentina's defense, which isn't expecting you to attack, to get overwhelmed.

Further, Argentina will be coming off two days' rest. They will be the ones with the tired legs, so if you push the tempo, if you attack them, they will be more likely to wear out sooner. This is a very good Argentina side, but let's not confuse them with 2009 Spain. They can be beat. Play physical and play fast. Expect that you need three goals to win and two goals to get to a shootout. No one on earth is going to get a 1-0 win against this team with a sneaky counter. It won't happen. Shove the game down their throats, attack the wings, get crosses in. Allow Yedlin and Johnson to get forward and do some damage.

Maybe it backfires and you lose by a heavy margin. So what? It's the #1 team in the world and you still get the third place game. Lose 3-0 or 5-1...well, that's what's expected. I'd rather attack and lose than bunker and lose, because if we bunker in, we will lose. Again, this isn't 2009 Spain, so the Bradley plan of allowing them to control the entire pitch outside our box won't work. Messi will break that plan down. Gotta go at them.

Who should play: The entire back line has been solid. Thanks Besler, time to go back to the expected back five of Guzan with Yedlin/Cameron/Brooks/Johnson in front of him. That is the easy part. My fear is that Jones will be replaced by Beckerman, when he should be replaced by Nagbe. You need to attack and you need pace. My grandmother has more pace than Kyle Beckerman and she died 20 years ago. The 4-4-2 worked well yesterday, allowing space for the backs to get forward, so let Bradley (who looked better after Jones went off) man the 6 position on his own as he was always supposed to do. Put Nagbe at the tip of a diamond midfield to provide to the forwards and wings. Zusi has looked good in relief roles, so he can be an even swap with Bedoya. I actually trust Zusi more right now.

The next question is who takes Wood's spot. My expectation is Wondolowski, which I don't like. He is probably the best hold-up player we have, but we need to go forward. That means Christian Pulisic. You brought him for a reason, so why not give him his first start against the #1 team in the world? The kid can handle playing for Borussia Dortmund in the Champions League, I think he can handle this. Set it up like this:

Guzan

Yedlin - - - - - Cameron - - - - - Brooks - - - - - Johnson

Bradley
Zardes - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Zusi
Nagbe

- - - Dempsey
Pulisic - - -
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 17, 2016, 08:56:43 AM
Now...thoughts going forward (I'm looking at you, Argentina).

The suspensions: Jermaine's red card was stupid, Bedoya's yellow card was stupid, and as much as I am growing to appreciate Bobby Wood's game, his temper needs to get under control because every time he thinks he's fouled it looks like he deserves a yellow for dissent. Getting Yedlin back will help, but we lose 2/3 of our midfield and our best attacking option going forward.

How to beat Argentina: Herb Brooks' speech in Miracle included this gem: "You don't defend them, you ATTACK them. You take their game and you shove it right back in their face!" He was talking about the 1980 Soviet hockey team, but it applies to Argentina as well. Watching Argentina, they are the type of team that scores more from the run of play than from counters. They like the build-up, working it around, probing the defense, then exploiting the weaknesses. I don't care how good you are, they are ultimately going to find a weakness. How have most teams played them? They try to put the emphasis on defense, holding out, and hoping to steal one on the counter. Ask Panama how well that worked for them.

What you have to do is attack. Using the Three Factors (http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/copa-america-aggregate-rankings/copa-america-three-factors/) we can see that Argentina is best at not allowing shots but second worst (Haiti) at allowing quality shots. The reason their shot disparity is so great is because teams are afraid to attack them, yet when they do, Argentina allows shots on target. So how do you exploit that? Attack. Get a high volume of shots and count on Argentina's defense, which isn't expecting you to attack, to get overwhelmed.

Further, Argentina will be coming off two days' rest. They will be the ones with the tired legs, so if you push the tempo, if you attack them, they will be more likely to wear out sooner. This is a very good Argentina side, but let's not confuse them with 2009 Spain. They can be beat. Play physical and play fast. Expect that you need three goals to win and two goals to get to a shootout. No one on earth is going to get a 1-0 win against this team with a sneaky counter. It won't happen. Shove the game down their throats, attack the wings, get crosses in. Allow Yedlin and Johnson to get forward and do some damage.

Maybe it backfires and you lose by a heavy margin. So what? It's the #1 team in the world and you still get the third place game. Lose 3-0 or 5-1...well, that's what's expected. I'd rather attack and lose than bunker and lose, because if we bunker in, we will lose. Again, this isn't 2009 Spain, so the Bradley plan of allowing them to control the entire pitch outside our box won't work. Messi will break that plan down. Gotta go at them.

Who should play: The entire back line has been solid. Thanks Besler, time to go back to the expected back five of Guzan with Yedlin/Cameron/Brooks/Johnson in front of him. That is the easy part. My fear is that Jones will be replaced by Beckerman, when he should be replaced by Nagbe. You need to attack and you need pace. My grandmother has more pace than Kyle Beckerman and she died 20 years ago. The 4-4-2 worked well yesterday, allowing space for the backs to get forward, so let Bradley (who looked better after Jones went off) man the 6 position on his own as he was always supposed to do. Put Nagbe at the tip of a diamond midfield to provide to the forwards and wings. Zusi has looked good in relief roles, so he can be an even swap with Bedoya. I actually trust Zusi more right now.

The next question is who takes Wood's spot. My expectation is Wondolowski, which I don't like. He is probably the best hold-up player we have, but we need to go forward. That means Christian Pulisic. You brought him for a reason, so why not give him his first start against the #1 team in the world? The kid can handle playing for Borussia Dortmund in the Champions League, I think he can handle this. Set it up like this:

Guzan

Yedlin - - - - - Cameron - - - - - Brooks - - - - - Johnson

Bradley
Zardes - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Zusi
Nagbe

- - - Dempsey
Pulisic - - -

(http://www.troll.me/images/jackie-chan-whut/get-out-of-my-brain.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 17, 2016, 08:58:33 AM
One other note, I think the Jones and Bedoya suspensions are potentially very good for the US IF Jurgen decides to be aggressive instead of playing it safe/steady.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 17, 2016, 09:15:28 AM
One other note, I think the Jones and Bedoya suspensions are potentially very good for the US IF Jurgen decides to be aggressive instead of playing it safe/steady.

I had those exact same thoughts. If we put in two guys with an aggressive mindset, like Nagbe and Zusi, it could actually be better for us than having the regular starters in. However, if we plan on bunkering and countering, say by putting Beckerman in the middle and trying to find room for a more defensive player like Birnbaum or Kitchen while Bradley is pushed forward, I think it pretty much seals our fate.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GWSwarrior on June 17, 2016, 10:17:36 AM
No extra time in this tournament.

Yes there is extra time in this tournament, it just doesn't come into play until the Final match. just remember knowing is half the battle...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 17, 2016, 10:18:55 AM
Yes there is extra time in this tournament, it just doesn't come into play until the Final match. just remember knowing is half the battle...


Thank you.  I was specifically reading about yesterday's game and thought it applied to the entire tournament.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GWSwarrior on June 17, 2016, 10:22:46 AM
How bout that prediction though?  8-)

spot on.  there was some very dubious calls. it was interesting, IMHO, the cards vs the continuation plays.  I always prefer a match to ref'd consistently from start to finish, that was not the case last night. but a good result nonetheless. a victory on Tuesday would be great but, against Messi...

more importantly is to keep some semblance of continuity through European preseason so everybody can comeback and we can take care of business on 9/2 and 9/6...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 17, 2016, 10:38:50 AM
What you have to do is attack. Using the Three Factors (http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/copa-america-aggregate-rankings/copa-america-three-factors/) we can see that Argentina is best at not allowing shots but second worst (Haiti) at allowing quality shots. The reason their shot disparity is so great is because teams are afraid to attack them, yet when they do, Argentina allows shots on target. So how do you exploit that? Attack. Get a high volume of shots and count on Argentina's defense, which isn't expecting you to attack, to get overwhelmed.

Nice...

(https://media.giphy.com/media/IxJMT1ugyBMdy/giphy.gif)

Here are the Three Factors for last night, btw

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClH3Z3KWYAATDPp.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 17, 2016, 11:32:32 AM
Now...thoughts going forward (I'm looking at you, Argentina).

The suspensions: Jermaine's red card was stupid, Bedoya's yellow card was stupid, and as much as I am growing to appreciate Bobby Wood's game, his temper needs to get under control because every time he thinks he's fouled it looks like he deserves a yellow for dissent. Getting Yedlin back will help, but we lose 2/3 of our midfield and our best attacking option going forward.

How to beat Argentina: Herb Brooks' speech in Miracle included this gem: "You don't defend them, you ATTACK them. You take their game and you shove it right back in their face!" He was talking about the 1980 Soviet hockey team, but it applies to Argentina as well. Watching Argentina, they are the type of team that scores more from the run of play than from counters. They like the build-up, working it around, probing the defense, then exploiting the weaknesses. I don't care how good you are, they are ultimately going to find a weakness. How have most teams played them? They try to put the emphasis on defense, holding out, and hoping to steal one on the counter. Ask Panama how well that worked for them.

What you have to do is attack. Using the Three Factors (http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/copa-america-aggregate-rankings/copa-america-three-factors/) we can see that Argentina is best at not allowing shots but second worst (Haiti) at allowing quality shots. The reason their shot disparity is so great is because teams are afraid to attack them, yet when they do, Argentina allows shots on target. So how do you exploit that? Attack. Get a high volume of shots and count on Argentina's defense, which isn't expecting you to attack, to get overwhelmed.

Further, Argentina will be coming off two days' rest. They will be the ones with the tired legs, so if you push the tempo, if you attack them, they will be more likely to wear out sooner. This is a very good Argentina side, but let's not confuse them with 2009 Spain. They can be beat. Play physical and play fast. Expect that you need three goals to win and two goals to get to a shootout. No one on earth is going to get a 1-0 win against this team with a sneaky counter. It won't happen. Shove the game down their throats, attack the wings, get crosses in. Allow Yedlin and Johnson to get forward and do some damage.

Maybe it backfires and you lose by a heavy margin. So what? It's the #1 team in the world and you still get the third place game. Lose 3-0 or 5-1...well, that's what's expected. I'd rather attack and lose than bunker and lose, because if we bunker in, we will lose. Again, this isn't 2009 Spain, so the Bradley plan of allowing them to control the entire pitch outside our box won't work. Messi will break that plan down. Gotta go at them.

Who should play: The entire back line has been solid. Thanks Besler, time to go back to the expected back five of Guzan with Yedlin/Cameron/Brooks/Johnson in front of him. That is the easy part. My fear is that Jones will be replaced by Beckerman, when he should be replaced by Nagbe. You need to attack and you need pace. My grandmother has more pace than Kyle Beckerman and she died 20 years ago. The 4-4-2 worked well yesterday, allowing space for the backs to get forward, so let Bradley (who looked better after Jones went off) man the 6 position on his own as he was always supposed to do. Put Nagbe at the tip of a diamond midfield to provide to the forwards and wings. Zusi has looked good in relief roles, so he can be an even swap with Bedoya. I actually trust Zusi more right now.

The next question is who takes Wood's spot. My expectation is Wondolowski, which I don't like. He is probably the best hold-up player we have, but we need to go forward. That means Christian Pulisic. You brought him for a reason, so why not give him his first start against the #1 team in the world? The kid can handle playing for Borussia Dortmund in the Champions League, I think he can handle this. Set it up like this:

Guzan

Yedlin - - - - - Cameron - - - - - Brooks - - - - - Johnson

Bradley
Zardes - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Zusi
Nagbe

- - - Dempsey
Pulisic - - -

I don't mind the formation at all, and alot of the players where you have them, and I'm a huge Pulisic fan.  But you're asking a scrawny 17 year old to play target striker here, I really, really don't get that.

I haven't played around too much with switching out of the 4-3-3 (not that I think its a bad idea, just haven't given it too much thought yet), but here are 2 potential lineups if we stick to a 4-3-3

Guzan
Yedlin-Cameron-Brooks-Besler
Nagbe-Beckerman-Bradley
Zardes-Dempsey-Johnson

Guzan
Yedlin-Cameron-Brooks-Johnson
Nagbe-Beckerman-Bradley
Zardes-Dempsey-Pulisic

I'm not sold on Beckerman being the third midfielder in either of those, so maybe Zusi playing further up the field instead.  I also think Pulisic may be able to handle the midfield duties in one of those spots.  With Besler putting in a decent performance against Ecuador, I'm almost tempted to play Fabian further up the pitch closer to his more natural position.

Either way, it will be interesting to see what JK rolls out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 17, 2016, 11:46:42 AM
The way we play, no one is playing target striker. Wood hasn't when he was in. What I want is a forward player that can make runs and get behind the defense. I also want someone that can draw the center backs out. Dempsey and Wood have worked well together in that regard. With no target or hold up player on the roster, I'd rather take my chances with Pulisic emulating Wood than hoping Zardes can magically fix his runs or find a first touch.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 17, 2016, 11:58:03 AM
The way we play, no one is playing target striker. Wood hasn't when he was in. What I want is a forward player that can make runs and get behind the defense. I also want someone that can draw the center backs out. Dempsey and Wood have worked well together in that regard. With no target or hold up player on the roster, I'd rather take my chances with Pulisic emulating Wood than hoping Zardes can magically fix his runs or find a first touch.

His goal last night was the first and only time he'll likely have a positive first touch
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 17, 2016, 12:47:55 PM
The only reason Besler worked on the outside is because of the work Bedoya put in:

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2016/06/17/three-things-we-learned-from-usa-2-1-ecuador-on-to-the-semis/

I don't trust Besler on an island on the outside. Zardes has been providing deep defensive cover most of the tourney, so if you play Besler, gotta put Zardes on his side. But I still don't like that either. I would say play FJ at mid in front of Besler, but FJ is notorious for not tracking back once a turnover occurs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 17, 2016, 12:55:30 PM
The only reason Besler worked on the outside is because of the work Bedoya put in:

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2016/06/17/three-things-we-learned-from-usa-2-1-ecuador-on-to-the-semis/

I don't trust Besler on an island on the outside. Zardes has been providing deep defensive cover most of the tourney, so if you play Besler, gotta put Zardes on his side. But I still don't like that either. I would say play FJ at mid in front of Besler, but FJ is notorious for not tracking back once a turnover occurs.

Yedlin is back so Besler will only be in if someone gets hurt.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 17, 2016, 01:13:03 PM
I don't mind the formation at all, and alot of the players where you have them, and I'm a huge Pulisic fan.  But you're asking a scrawny 17 year old to play target striker here, I really, really don't get that.

To elaborate a bit on my formation...I would draw overlapping circles.

The first circle would be the defensive circle and would include the back four, Bradley, and the two flank midfielders. Those seven would overlap and be primarily in charge of defense, with Zardes and Zusi responsible for the fullback defensive positions when Johnson and Yedlin go forward and Bradley responsible to help out in the middle.

The second circle would be around the fullbacks and the four midfielders. That would be the support circle, and those six players would be responsible for getting the ball forward and into the box.

The last circle would be around the flank midfielders, Nagbe, and the forwards. That would be the attack circle and those five players would be responsible for creating chances. Within the circles, responsibilities would overlap and players could move in and out of each other's primary roles.

Not exactly total football, but maybe a bit more using our national team the way the Cubs do in baseball, where different guys can slot in and help out at various positions. I definitely don't see Pulisic as a hold-up or target striker, but as an overlapping piece think he could be the point of the attack.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 17, 2016, 05:54:32 PM
To elaborate a bit on my formation...I would draw overlapping circles.

The first circle would be the defensive circle and would include the back four, Bradley, and the two flank midfielders. Those seven would overlap and be primarily in charge of defense, with Zardes and Zusi responsible for the fullback defensive positions when Johnson and Yedlin go forward and Bradley responsible to help out in the middle.

The second circle would be around the fullbacks and the four midfielders. That would be the support circle, and those six players would be responsible for getting the ball forward and into the box.

The last circle would be around the flank midfielders, Nagbe, and the forwards. That would be the attack circle and those five players would be responsible for creating chances. Within the circles, responsibilities would overlap and players could move in and out of each other's primary roles.

Not exactly total football, but maybe a bit more using our national team the way the Cubs do in baseball, where different guys can slot in and help out at various positions. I definitely don't see Pulisic as a hold-up or target striker, but as an overlapping piece think he could be the point of the attack.

I see your point, but I'm not sure I see Pulisic as a true forward type.

Admittedly, I haven't seen a ton of his play.  A couple of Dortmund games, and then his appearances with the senior USMNT and thats it, but I think he needs guys in front of him to make runs so he can lay passes off to them.  I don't necessarily see him as a guy to make a run in behind and drag defenders.  That said, maybe he can do that and I just haven't had the chance to see it yet.

I like Pulisic a lot, but in a 4-4-2 diamond, I think he's a CAM or mayyybbbeeee a LM. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 17, 2016, 09:13:50 PM
My god, that penalty wasn't even close. Colombia got extremely lucky, Bacca and Cuadrado were just awful the entire game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 77ncaachamps on June 19, 2016, 02:10:10 AM
Got back from the Mexico-Chile match.

Green (and white and red) were EVERYWHERE in the stands but nowhere on the pitch.

Chile owned Mexico who appeared lazy, unmotivated, hesitant, gun shy, and possibly overconfident because it was a "home game" for them.

Chile was crisper and more intent with their passes; achieved most of their success on counterattacks; and swarmed the Mexican side on defense.

Got ugly quick as fans headed for the stands with the team down 3-0 with about 30 minutes left in the game.

Normally "El Tri" supporters would save their "puto" chants for the other team's goalie, but around 4-0, they were using it for their own players.

When it became 5-0, the beer showers rained down following their hurled cups, fights (both verbal and physical) broke out, and food and drinks were being thrown at the Chile players on the pitch. Two police/sheriff helicopters circled the stadium and adjoining parking lots overhead.

It was an embarrassment on the field and off for the Mexican side. Heading to the tunnel, their fans were throwing things at them - "almost deservedly so", considering many paid top dollar for their seats ($200-$400).

Looking back, what started as a very hopeful game turned out to be a disaster.
I didn't think Chile would demolish Mexico this way.

Looking forward to the Colombia - Chile match.
Chile has a great shot of repeating...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 19, 2016, 02:42:21 AM
Gonna be tough without Vidal, but at the same time Colombia hasn't played well since the first half of the Paraguay game. I'm really happy Chile won. Have a lot of Chilean friends who are great people (not to say that my Mexican friends arent) and I really didn't want to deal with the Mexico supporters at Soldier Field, especially since I'm gonna be rocking Colombia gear. Should be a fun one.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 19, 2016, 12:37:33 PM
Gonna be tough without Vidal, but at the same time Colombia hasn't played well since the first half of the Paraguay game. I'm really happy Chile won. Have a lot of Chilean friends who are great people (not to say that my Mexican friends arent) and I really didn't want to deal with the Mexico supporters at Soldier Field, especially since I'm gonna be rocking Colombia gear. Should be a fun one.

Can't say as I blame you...the one time I did I was pleasantly surprised by how civil the Mexican supporters in our section were (2007 Gold Cup Final) especially after the USA comeback win, but many of my friends did not have the same (mostly) cordial experience. I think their fans have become more brash and aggressive in the years since.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 21, 2016, 07:57:57 AM
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/2016/06/21/usa-vs-argentina-euro-recaps-6-20/

USA preview and then some recaps of teams in the Euros that have played three games.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 21, 2016, 07:34:36 PM
This lineup is awful. And plays to zero cohesive strategy.

Not surprisingly, it's exactly the lineup I expected Klins to go with.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 21, 2016, 07:52:20 PM
God this Fox studio bunch is annoying. ESPN Euro coverage is so much better.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 21, 2016, 08:00:47 PM
And the USA lineup takes the field...

(http://www.buscrazy.net/images/finance_yellowbus_lotpic.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Lionel Messi on June 21, 2016, 09:45:04 PM
Proa a mi grandeza


https://www.youtube.com/v/trYIyfctlnA
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Lionel Messi on June 21, 2016, 09:46:59 PM
Colombia, que están al lado. Trate de no matar a tus jugadores, después le golpearon.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 21, 2016, 10:14:14 PM
Colombia, que están al lado. Trate de no matar a tus jugadores, después le golpearon.

Who would have thought Messi speaks such poor Spanish.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on June 21, 2016, 10:41:27 PM
Wow ... what an arse-whuppin'!!

That's like 100-0 in a real sport!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 22, 2016, 07:29:06 AM
Yeah, I watched about 1/2 of the game (most of the first half and about 10 minutes of the second) and that game was an arse-whoopin' even when it was still 1-0.  I don't watch all that much soccer, but I don't remember watching a game that seemed quite that one-sided.  They controlled the ball and passed it around for minutes at a time.  Then the USA would get the ball, make a frantic pass or two, and then turn it over.  It was like men playing with boys.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 22, 2016, 07:41:35 AM
Well, that sucked. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 22, 2016, 08:48:14 AM
Argentina pitched a perfect game last night. The only area where they weren't better than average was on shot quantity, which is completely unnecessary when you have 65% shot quality and 57% finishing. Please excuse the typo in the pic.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cljb74IVYAAe7Ky.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on June 22, 2016, 09:11:34 AM
I didn't watch the game because I was too busy poking myself in the eyes with a sharp instrument (something I consider more enjoyable than watching soccer).

But I believe I did see on SportsCenter that the U.S. managed zero shots the entire game.

Zero.

Argentina didn't even need a freakin' goalie to win this game. That's amazing.

Does that happen often in soccer, especially in the semifinals of a big tournament (meaning these should be four of the world's best teams)? Seriously, I don't follow soccer and I don't know the answer, so I'm asking the more "futbol-enlightened" if this is relatively common or not.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 22, 2016, 09:39:58 AM
I didn't watch the game because I was too busy poking myself in the eyes with a sharp instrument (something I consider more enjoyable than watching soccer).

But I believe I did see on SportsCenter that the U.S. managed zero shots the entire game.

Zero.

Argentina didn't even need a freakin' goalie to win this game. That's amazing.

Does that happen often in soccer, especially in the semifinals of a big tournament (meaning these should be four of the world's best teams)? Seriously, I don't follow soccer and I don't know the answer, so I'm asking the more "futbol-enlightened" if this is relatively common or not.

I have ~800 games worth of data from MLS and these two tournaments. This is the first time I've seen a team record zero shots.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 22, 2016, 09:50:11 AM
I didn't watch the game because I was too busy poking myself in the eyes with a sharp instrument (something I consider more enjoyable than watching soccer).

But I believe I did see on SportsCenter that the U.S. managed zero shots the entire game.

Zero.

Argentina didn't even need a freakin' goalie to win this game. That's amazing.

Does that happen often in soccer, especially in the semifinals of a big tournament (meaning these should be four of the world's best teams)? Seriously, I don't follow soccer and I don't know the answer, so I'm asking the more "futbol-enlightened" if this is relatively common or not.

Extremely rare.

Most glaring issue with the team is how unprepared they were from a mental speed of the game standpoint. This should be one of the things that is wheelhouse for Klinsman to be able to instruct on though perhaps the argument that he was natural versus learned making him a poor teacher makes sense. You could almost literally see the American players thinking before everything they did, and before they could do anything an Argentina player was on top of them.

MLS is what it is, but I do agree with Klinsman, it just isn't the place to develop national team players (though he started 6 of them last night).

Also, (figuratively) when can we take Wondo out back and shoot him? He was directly responsible for the first two goals either by a lack of awareness, lazy passing or fouling in the wrong position. The only thing the guy has proven is that it's more than sitter goals that he "Wondos"
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 22, 2016, 10:12:17 AM
Argentina needed that game more than the Americans. 25 years without a trophy, and the last 10 of those with Messi in the fold, is an ever tightening noose they've felt acutely in failing last year against Chile and failing in 2014 against the Germans.

The "shifting the paradigm" narrative for the Americans is perfectly fine froth for the simpletons. And, to be truthful, just having the conversations no matter how snarky or giggly they are within those who never watch the sport shows that its place has moved in the zeitgeist.

To be truthful, the Americans had already accomplished what they wanted prior to last night's game. Performing well in a knockout round is not a strong suit for the program and to do so against Ecuador (off the back of an uninspired World Cup qualifying campaign to this point) represented a step forward. And if they end up winning Saturday night, it will be met with begrudging respect now but in the future will be seen as a crucial step in development.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 22, 2016, 10:28:39 AM
MLS is what it is, but I do agree with Klinsman, it just isn't the place to develop national team players (though he started 6 of them last night).

Also, (figuratively) when can we take Wondo out back and shoot him? He was directly responsible for the first two goals either by a lack of awareness, lazy passing or fouling in the wrong position. The only thing the guy has proven is that it's more than sitter goals that he "Wondos"

I'd love to know what blackmail Wondo has on JK.  Cause seriously.  Just when the US is rolling, sentiment is positive...JK rolls out both Wondo and Beckerman in the starting XI, woof.

Also, I'm sure some of it is coincidental and JK playing him out of position for a long time didn't help, but Bradley's aggressive development seemingly stalled once he got to Toronto.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 22, 2016, 10:34:55 AM
Last night was the worst performance I've ever seen from a USA team on home soil. I get that we were supposed to lose. My prediction was 3-0, so I'm not at all shocked by it. But for me, it was the way we lost that was gutting.

First, the lineup changes were predictable and problematic. Beckerman and Wondolowski signaled intent to park the bus. While I'm not a fan of that strategy, it can work if you have wingers who can quickly institute a counterattack. The issue is that the other replacement, Zusi, doesn't have the type of pace to launch counters and Wondo doesn't have the ability to create separation and provide a viable target.

Our plan was defeated from the outset, not least of which because Argentina managed to score inside of 3 minutes. Because of the players deployed, we were not able to mount any significant threat to Argentina. We didn't even seem to try. The second half subs of Pulisic and Nagbe were too little, too late. I want to like this team, I want to see progress, and while there's some, it's certainly not enough.

Brooks, Wood, Johnson, Yedlin, and Cameron were the highlights of the tournament in that you can see progress. However so many others left us wanting. Jones temper hasn't changed. Ever since the failed Bradley at 10 experiment, his play has declined and trying to pair him with Jones or Beckerman back at the 6 hasn't had any positive improvement. I hate seeing Bradley moving into his prime while his play at the international level declines. Dempsey still has quality but is getting long in the tooth, Zardes and Bedoya have merits but aren't complete players, and Guzan while good at times is too inconsistent to be considered on par with the keepers we've had over the past 15 years.

I just...ugh. No shots? Not just no shots on goal, but none period? Not even one effort? So much for attacking Argentina, after that I would have settled for giving them at least one dirty look.

Many will look back and call this tournament a success, just like World Cup 2014. But in reality, it's just the status quo. We reached the knockouts in 2014 and lost to the first significant challenger we faced, just like we have in 4 of the past 6 World Cups. And in Copa, we beat the teams we were supposed to beat, lost to the teams we were supposed to lose to, and sprung one minor upset of Ecuador. Not a bad tournament, but certainly not a clear step forward.

Last night was the most frustrating match I've watched. It showed the clear gulf between us and the true football elite. I didn't really think we'd win, but it galls me to see a USA team so gutless, so scared, and so beaten before the first kick at home.

That for me was the reason Klinsmann should be gone. Because we are told "achieving X means we are successful" and when we do, we should be happy. We escaped the Group of Death in 2014 and made the semis this year. Those were his benchmarks, and because of that we're a success? Well, we also failed to qualify for the Confederations or the Olympics, both goals he said needed to be achieved. I'm not a fan of placing a glass ceiling on our accomplishments. He can call it realism all he likes and act like American soccer fans simply don't understand, but I do understand that we are no better off than we were when he took the job in 2011, and arguably worse.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on June 22, 2016, 12:29:52 PM
A real embarrassment to watch. The stunned looks on the fans was all you needed to see. Klinsman's team continuously gave up the ball with unforced errors the few times they even had possession. No shots on goal?  These guys looked like a JV team out on the pitch. No one can take them seriously after this sub par effort.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 77ncaachamps on June 22, 2016, 02:38:33 PM
Yedlin showed progress?!

He sucked the whole Copa.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 22, 2016, 04:18:37 PM
I thought this was a really good read about youth development. It's insightful.

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/college-soccer-articles/tds-qa-with-akron-coach-jared-embick_aid39134
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 22, 2016, 04:36:39 PM
Yedlin showed progress?!

He sucked the whole Copa.

Yedlin showed great progress.  Not sure what you were watching.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 22, 2016, 04:42:49 PM
Yedlin showed great progress.  Not sure what you were watching.

Agree. In the group games, his time at Sunderland was clearly shown with a much better understanding of when to advance and when to stay home. Last night, his overlap with Zardes and low ball to the box was the only positive movement I remember in the first half for the USA.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 22, 2016, 06:39:01 PM
To echo a couple comments here, the US's biggest problem against Argentina wasn't the Argentinian attack, it was the stifling, high press by the Argentines. You'd think the US never played a team that pressed them so much. I'll excuse a few forced turnovers (even if they were in the defensive third on almost all the Arg goals), but I have a real problem with the UNFORCED turnovers the US made.

Man of the match for Argentina: Zardes

Good tournament: Brooks, Yedlin, Zardes, Wood (maybe Cameron, Fabian)

Bad tournament: Bradley

My player of the tournament: Brooks
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 22, 2016, 06:47:42 PM
Mostly Colombian crowd as expected. This game is gonna be so much fun.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on June 22, 2016, 06:50:43 PM
Mostly Colombian crowd as expected. This game is gonna be so much fun.

Was gonna go after tickets dropped to 35 on Stubhub. Rain scared me away. Should have gone. Damn.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on June 22, 2016, 07:06:02 PM
I thought this was a really good read about youth development. It's insightful.

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/college-soccer-articles/tds-qa-with-akron-coach-jared-embick_aid39134

I thought it was an interesting read, Hank. Thanks for providing.

From my outsider's perspective, I have been hearing about U.S. soccer "getting ready to break out" or "coming of age" for four decades now. As a curious teen who was enthralled with sports superstars, I even watched a few Cosmos games  during the Pele-Chignalia-Beckenbauer era.

Forty years later, however, I see few signs that the "breakout" is imminent. Lots of American kids play, but the U.S. sports TV consumer doesn't appear to be buying into it ... and I don't know that he/she ever will.

And then the national team shows up for a competition like this and doesn't even attempt a single shot toward the goal. And some apologists say, hey, it was expected, the team already accomplished what it needed to.

All righty then ... if that's true, I admit I will never understand it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 22, 2016, 07:57:56 PM
The most frustrating thing is that Colombia was the better team for 40 minutes of that half. Except Cuadrado, man has he sucked this entire tournament. Maybe I'm over valuing him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 23, 2016, 10:15:11 AM
I thought it was an interesting read, Hank. Thanks for providing.

From my outsider's perspective, I have been hearing about U.S. soccer "getting ready to break out" or "coming of age" for four decades now. As a curious teen who was enthralled with sports superstars, I even watched a few Cosmos games  during the Pele-Chignalia-Beckenbauer era.

Forty years later, however, I see few signs that the "breakout" is imminent. Lots of American kids play, but the U.S. sports TV consumer doesn't appear to be buying into it ... and I don't know that he/she ever will.

And then the national team shows up for a competition like this and doesn't even attempt a single shot toward the goal. And some apologists say, hey, it was expected, the team already accomplished what it needed to.

All righty then ... if that's true, I admit I will never understand it.

Firstly, the television numbers for World Cup (men or women) viewing are excellent. The US-Argentina game on Tuesday had eight million viewers in this country.

Secondly, you admittedly know nothing about the game yet feel fine passing judgment. Did you know the US was missing three of their regular starters in an 11 man squad? Do you fully comprehend just how elite Argentina is in the world of soccer? Do you fully appreciate the greatness that is Lionel Messi? Do you know that Ecuador, the team the US beat in the Quarterfinal, is leading the World Cup qualification in South America for the 2018 tournament? Of course not.

Thirdly, where were you when the United States systematically destroyed Costa Rica, a country who reached the Quarterfinal of the 2014 World Cup, scoring four times on 10 shots? Certainly not asking questions here. In fact, the only time you've popped in is to ask questions about fans fighting or writing mocking words about the US losing.

Finally, you're well off the mark calling me an apologist of US soccer. Prior to the tournament it was understood getting out of a group with the #3 team in the world, a Quarter-Finalist from the 2014 World Cup, and an edgy Paraguay team would be a positive. Winning an elimination game, which we haven't done since 2009, would be an accomplishment. So, yes, getting to the Semifinal was an achievement worth being happy about. But you don't get this because you know nothing.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 23, 2016, 10:18:41 AM
The most frustrating thing is that Colombia was the better team for 40 minutes of that half. Except Cuadrado, man has he sucked this entire tournament. Maybe I'm over valuing him.

You meaning the first half or the second half?

If it's the former, I'd have to disagree. Chile's first 20 minutes they were rampant. Colombia was very, very good the last 15 minutes.

If it's the latter, I'd agree. I thought Colombia was better on balance when they lost Sanchez and even though the game was open for much of the second half I didn't think Chile was exploiting the space like they did in the first.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 23, 2016, 10:32:06 AM
Firstly, the television numbers for World Cup (men or women) viewing are excellent. The US-Argentina game on Tuesday had eight million viewers in this country.

Secondly, you admittedly know nothing about the game yet feel fine passing judgment. Did you know the US was missing three of their regular starters in an 11 man squad? Do you fully comprehend just how elite Argentina is in the world of soccer? Do you fully appreciate the greatness that is Lionel Messi? Do you know that Ecuador, the team the US beat in the Quarterfinal, is leading the World Cup qualification in South America for the 2018 tournament? Of course not.

Thirdly, where were you when the United States systematically destroyed Costa Rica, a country who reached the Quarterfinal of the 2014 World Cup, scoring four times on 10 shots? Certainly not asking questions here. In fact, the only time you've popped in is to ask questions about fans fighting or writing mocking words about the US losing.

Finally, you're well off the mark calling me an apologist of US soccer. Prior to the tournament it was understood getting out of a group with the #3 team in the world, a Quarter-Finalist from the 2014 World Cup, and an edgy Paraguay team would be a positive. Winning an elimination game, which we haven't done since 2009, would be an accomplishment. So, yes, getting to the Semifinal was an achievement worth being happy about. But you don't get this because you know nothing.

Solid post.  I do want to point out though that the USA has won elimination games since 2009, but those have been Gold Cup matches, which are not always the greatest of competitions depending on the teams you face.

And to add:  FIFA rankings as of 6/2/16:  USA 31

Lose to #3 Colombia 2-0
Beat #23 Costa Rica 4-0
Beat #44 Paraguay 1-0
Beat #13 Ecuador 2-1
Lose to #1 Argentina 4-0
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 23, 2016, 10:35:55 AM
Lots of American kids play, but the U.S. sports TV consumer doesn't appear to be buying into it ... and I don't know that he/she ever will.

The US sports consumers are definitely catching up.  So is attendance at MLS games across the country.  The TV viewership is increasing slowly, but its definitely on its way up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2016, 12:11:42 PM
Firstly, the television numbers for World Cup (men or women) viewing are excellent. The US-Argentina game on Tuesday had eight million viewers in this country.

Secondly, you admittedly know nothing about the game yet feel fine passing judgment. Did you know the US was missing three of their regular starters in an 11 man squad? Do you fully comprehend just how elite Argentina is in the world of soccer? Do you fully appreciate the greatness that is Lionel Messi? Do you know that Ecuador, the team the US beat in the Quarterfinal, is leading the World Cup qualification in South America for the 2018 tournament? Of course not.

Thirdly, where were you when the United States systematically destroyed Costa Rica, a country who reached the Quarterfinal of the 2014 World Cup, scoring four times on 10 shots? Certainly not asking questions here. In fact, the only time you've popped in is to ask questions about fans fighting or writing mocking words about the US losing.

Finally, you're well off the mark calling me an apologist of US soccer. Prior to the tournament it was understood getting out of a group with the #3 team in the world, a Quarter-Finalist from the 2014 World Cup, and an edgy Paraguay team would be a positive. Winning an elimination game, which we haven't done since 2009, would be an accomplishment. So, yes, getting to the Semifinal was an achievement worth being happy about. But you don't get this because you know nothing.

This is example 1 on the elitist snobbery that keeps casual fans from joining the conversation and becoming real fans. Whether MU82 is "educated" about the sport or not, he's here for the conversation...you don't have to talk to him as if he's some random idiot that wonder in out of the dark.

Additionally, while you may have knowledge of the game and an opportunity to share your opinion/analyst it does not make it correct. The US has improved in areas, but it's only relative to the 3rd tier of national teams, they are not yet ready nor showing significant signs of being able to compete consistently at the top tier. At least 50% of the teams in the Euros right now would beat the US more often then not. Just because we can get wins over top teams with modified bunker ball doesn't mean the quality is there. Overall the US team's first touch is dreadful and typically need at least yard of space to do anything productive. Things like speed of play are just not improving with the US team and until they do so this team will not truly move into the 1st tier internationally.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 23, 2016, 12:54:01 PM
I don't think the US had a very good Copa. Yeah, they made the semis, but I really think a lot of that is due to luck. For quantity and quality, the US was bad.

In the Costa Rica game, the US had a finishing rate of 80%. Against Paraguay, they put two shots on target and finished one (50%). Against Ecuador, it was four shots with two finished (50%). All of those are great but won't last in the long run. It's not nearly enough shots on target, as evidenced by the US being the worst team in the tournament at shot quality.

What did they do well in comparison to the other teams? They finished their chances at a higher rate than expected and had some good goalkeeping. Luck and good goalkeeping.

(http://www.lowedownstats.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/6.23-Copa-TF.png)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 23, 2016, 01:00:23 PM
You meaning the first half or the second half?

If it's the former, I'd have to disagree. Chile's first 20 minutes they were rampant. Colombia was very, very good the last 15 minutes.

If it's the latter, I'd agree. I thought Colombia was better on balance when they lost Sanchez and even though the game was open for much of the second half I didn't think Chile was exploiting the space like they did in the first.

The only reason Chile had so many chances in the first 15 minutes is because Colombia was playing a stupidly high line trying to draw them offside. It burned then twice, the second time it also didn't help that Arias got shoved while trying to play the ball but didn't get any sort of call.

How did that 2nd Sanchez yellow look on TV? From were I was sitting, it looked as though it was a terrible dive and it shouldn't have even been a foul, let alone a yellow.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 23, 2016, 01:58:37 PM
The US sports consumers are definitely catching up.  So is attendance at MLS games across the country.  The TV viewership is increasing slowly, but its definitely on its way up.

It's not a top-4 sport or anything yet, but if you compare it to even the mid-90s, the growth of the sport over the past 20 years is astronomical. The MLS is drawing over 20,000 fans per game on average with Seattle drawing a mind-blowing 44,000+ per game. Before 1994, you had to fight to find the World Cup, now every WC game is broadcast, every game from the Euros, Gold Cup, Copa, and tons of friendlies and qualifiers. In addition to MLS, you can routinely find EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, and Liga MX, in addition to all the Champions' League games.

There's a long way to go, but anyone saying there hasn't been palpable growth since the 1970s simply isn't paying attention. I could easily see it settling in as a top-4 sport in another 20 years.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Coleman on June 23, 2016, 08:13:51 PM
It's not a top-4 sport or anything yet, but if you compare it to even the mid-90s, the growth of the sport over the past 20 years is astronomical. The MLS is drawing over 20,000 fans per game on average with Seattle drawing a mind-blowing 44,000+ per game. Before 1994, you had to fight to find the World Cup, now every WC game is broadcast, every game from the Euros, Gold Cup, Copa, and tons of friendlies and qualifiers. In addition to MLS, you can routinely find EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, and Liga MX, in addition to all the Champions' League games.

There's a long way to go, but anyone saying there hasn't been palpable growth since the 1970s simply isn't paying attention. I could easily see it settling in as a top-4 sport in another 20 years.

I don't think soccer will ever displace the NFL or NBA, and probably not MLB either.

I could see it on par with the the NHL in about 10 years, with smaller, but more rabid, fan bases than the other 3 major league sports.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 23, 2016, 10:18:08 PM
It's not a top-4 sport or anything yet, but if you compare it to even the mid-90s, the growth of the sport over the past 20 years is astronomical. The MLS is drawing over 20,000 fans per game on average with Seattle drawing a mind-blowing 44,000+ per game. Before 1994, you had to fight to find the World Cup, now every WC game is broadcast, every game from the Euros, Gold Cup, Copa, and tons of friendlies and qualifiers. In addition to MLS, you can routinely find EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, and Liga MX, in addition to all the Champions' League games.

There's a long way to go, but anyone saying there hasn't been palpable growth since the 1970s simply isn't paying attention. I could easily see it settling in as a top-4 sport in another 20 years.

Exactly.  As the current generation continues to get older.....

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/6/us-soccer-americaasmainstreamsportfifaworldcup.html

"MLS is not the only soccer that American fans follow. For 12-to-24-year-olds, soccer is the second-most-popular professional sport, behind only football and above basketball, baseball and hockey. "
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on June 23, 2016, 10:28:52 PM
Firstly, the television numbers for World Cup (men or women) viewing are excellent. The US-Argentina game on Tuesday had eight million viewers in this country.

Secondly, you admittedly know nothing about the game yet feel fine passing judgment. Did you know the US was missing three of their regular starters in an 11 man squad? Do you fully comprehend just how elite Argentina is in the world of soccer? Do you fully appreciate the greatness that is Lionel Messi? Do you know that Ecuador, the team the US beat in the Quarterfinal, is leading the World Cup qualification in South America for the 2018 tournament? Of course not.

Thirdly, where were you when the United States systematically destroyed Costa Rica, a country who reached the Quarterfinal of the 2014 World Cup, scoring four times on 10 shots? Certainly not asking questions here. In fact, the only time you've popped in is to ask questions about fans fighting or writing mocking words about the US losing.

Finally, you're well off the mark calling me an apologist of US soccer. Prior to the tournament it was understood getting out of a group with the #3 team in the world, a Quarter-Finalist from the 2014 World Cup, and an edgy Paraguay team would be a positive. Winning an elimination game, which we haven't done since 2009, would be an accomplishment. So, yes, getting to the Semifinal was an achievement worth being happy about. But you don't get this because you know nothing.

OK, wonderful.

We're No. 31. Rah-rah-rah!

See you in 2056. Maybe we'll be in the top 20 by then.

I'll leave you or others to get the last word on America's place in The Beautiful Game. I won't bother your sensitive soccer sensibilities any more here.

(mu03eng: Thanks for sticking up for me. I appreciate it.)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 25, 2016, 09:28:05 AM
OK, wonderful.

We're No. 31. Rah-rah-rah!

See you in 2056. Maybe we'll be in the top 20 by then.

Not everyone is a fan. I'm fine with that. The landscape is changing and the beauty of our sports options is that you can take in whatever you like. If it's soccer, so be it. If not, so be it.

That said...don't put much, rather any, stock in the FIFA rankings. We are usually ranked in the 10-20 range, but have been as high as 3 before the disastrous 2006 World Cup. Those rankings will always overrate Euro and South American teams and are rarely indicative of how good teams actually are. That we were able to scam our way up to #3 ever is just as ridiculous as our current ranking behind powerhouses Costa Rica, Bosnia-Herzegovina, and Northern Ireland (among others) is kind of silly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 25, 2016, 09:47:09 AM
This is example 1 on the elitist snobbery that keeps casual fans from joining the conversation and becoming real fans. Whether MU82 is "educated" about the sport or not, he's here for the conversation...you don't have to talk to him as if he's some random idiot that wonder in out of the dark.

Cry me a river. There are people on this forum, including you, who are "elitist" and "snobs" when basketball is discussed. It happens in every sport.

And he didn't come for "conversation". He posted once about fighting amongst fans in Europe and then posted about how he'd rather poke his eyes out then watch soccer. Makes a completely ignorant comment that people don't watch the sport on television when even a village idiot paying scant attention the last five years would know eyeballs are attracted to the game.

He's an archetypal 58 year old guy who misses the easy sports culture of his youth and doesn't get why this pansy version of kickball is talked about when there are games in which teams can't get even get one shot on goal. Prefers to literally be blind then watch and learn about a "sport" where you can't use your hands. And he takes joy in playing people like you as a fool when he writes "oh, help me learn" then gets a wonderful article from Henry Sugar only to then provide the ignorant, snarky, and snide comments I alluded to earlier. It's a tired joker move.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 25, 2016, 09:50:33 AM
Solid post.  I do want to point out though that the USA has won elimination games since 2009, but those have been Gold Cup matches, which are not always the greatest of competitions depending on the teams you face.

And to add:  FIFA rankings as of 6/2/16:  USA 31

Lose to #3 Colombia 2-0
Beat #23 Costa Rica 4-0
Beat #44 Paraguay 1-0
Beat #13 Ecuador 2-1
Lose to #1 Argentina 4-0

Correctly noted on the Gold Cup. At this point, I tend to not look at the Gold Cup mostly because of the lackluster competition. I find its a level they can achieve even with substandard squads.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 25, 2016, 09:53:24 AM
The only reason Chile had so many chances in the first 15 minutes is because Colombia was playing a stupidly high line trying to draw them offside. It burned then twice, the second time it also didn't help that Arias got shoved while trying to play the ball but didn't get any sort of call.

How did that 2nd Sanchez yellow look on TV? From were I was sitting, it looked as though it was a terrible dive and it shouldn't have even been a foul, let alone a yellow.

It was a foul but not near a booking. Sanchez got hurt since his style is that of a big and beefy bodyguard. Following the two hour delay, perhaps the referee took a harder view of the pace and thought he was being reckless when he wasn't. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Lionel Messi on June 27, 2016, 09:45:26 AM
no más
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 30, 2016, 02:31:30 PM
So suddenly Jurgen Klinsmann seems to be the hot name in England. Heard last week that Jurgen was the odds on favorite (1/4 betting odds) to take over at Southampton, and while that hasn't happened yet, they are now saying he may be in the mix for the England job.

As an American, I would like to endorse him for either job and would happily thank him for his service while I drove him to the airport.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 30, 2016, 02:36:43 PM
So suddenly Jurgen Klinsmann seems to be the hot name in England. Heard last week that Jurgen was the odds on favorite (1/4 betting odds) to take over at Southampton, and while that hasn't happened yet, they are now saying he may be in the mix for the England job.

As an American, I would like to endorse him for either job and would happily thank him for his service while I drove him to the airport.


Claude Puel was named Southampton manager.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 30, 2016, 02:59:41 PM

Claude Puel was named Southampton manager.

I just can't believe he's being mentioned for anything bigger right now. Feels very Klinsmannesque...he will have the team looking terrible for ages, then pop up with a result or two and suddenly he's hot again and all is forgiven. Worked in Brazil, those two friendly wins in Europe over the Dutch and Deutsch, and now Copa. Suddenly the Gold Cup, the marginal qualifying, the defensive instability is all forgotten.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 30, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
So suddenly Jurgen Klinsmann seems to be the hot name in England. Heard last week that Jurgen was the odds on favorite (1/4 betting odds) to take over at Southampton, and while that hasn't happened yet, they are now saying he may be in the mix for the England job.

As an American, I would like to endorse him for either job and would happily thank him for his service while I drove him to the airport.

I heartedly agree with your assessment.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 09, 2016, 04:57:59 PM
Lots of talk that England has been in talks with Jurgen Klinsmann this weekend about their vacant manager position. Per the Daily Mirror, USA Soccer will not block a move for Klinsmann. Now bear in mind, most of this is from Twitter reports and the Mirror is known as a tabloid, but this does seem to have some legs. Be interesting to see who would be next in line. My guess is Klinsmann would take Andi Herzog with him, possibly Tab Ramos or Jason Kreis as interim manager with the NT targeting either a return for Arena or Bradley, or possibly looking at a MLS coach like Peter Vermes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 09, 2016, 05:29:04 PM
US women looked uninspired today against South Africa.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Lots of talk that England has been in talks with Jurgen Klinsmann this weekend about their vacant manager position. Per the Daily Mirror, USA Soccer will not block a move for Klinsmann. Now bear in mind, most of this is from Twitter reports and the Mirror is known as a tabloid, but this does seem to have some legs. Be interesting to see who would be next in line. My guess is Klinsmann would take Andi Herzog with him, possibly Tab Ramos or Jason Kreis as interim manager with the NT targeting either a return for Arena or Bradley, or possibly looking at a MLS coach like Peter Vermes.

No. This is from the same sources that had Jurgen going to Southampton.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 09, 2016, 11:58:43 PM
US women looked uninspired today against South Africa.

I mean, they're so talanted they don't really need to look inspired against the likes of South Africa in what was essentially a friendly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 10, 2016, 10:05:55 AM
No. This is from the same sources that had Jurgen going to Southampton.

Saw some speculation that Klinsmann himself put this out there to leverage a new contract after Copa. If so that seems ridiculous. Let him walk, why would they want to extend him past 2018 now anyway?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 20, 2016, 02:33:05 PM
Not sure how many MLS followers there are on here, but MU alum Axel Sjoberg is having a phenomenal year in Colorado and ESPN recently have him slotted in their mid-year awards as Defender of the Year.

http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-soccer/19/blog/post/2914910/villa-azira-and-curtin-scoop-espn-fcs-mls-midseason-awards
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 20, 2016, 02:58:51 PM
Saw some speculation that Klinsmann himself put this out there to leverage a new contract after Copa. If so that seems ridiculous. Let him walk, why would they want to extend him past 2018 now anyway?

Big Sam Allardyce was named manager for England today....sucks, was hoping they'd take Klinsmann off our hands.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 20, 2016, 03:05:28 PM
Big Sam Allardyce was named manager for England today....sucks, was hoping they'd take Klinsmann off our hands.

Also puts Yedlin's status for next season in jeopardy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 20, 2016, 03:05:39 PM
Big Sam Allardyce was named manager for England today....sucks, was hoping they'd take Klinsmann off our hands.

Big Sam? Dude got run out of West Ham of all places. Doubt he lasts longer much longer than the 2018 world cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 20, 2016, 04:13:29 PM
Also puts Yedlin's status for next season in jeopardy.

Yedlin is only on loan at Sunderland, and he played well last year.  He may not stay, but if Spurs don't bring him back, I don't think he'll have a problem with suitors.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 20, 2016, 05:52:51 PM
Big Sam? Dude got run out of West Ham of all places. Doubt he lasts longer much longer than the 2018 world cup.

Classic England, hire another mediocre Englishman who'll underachieve and be out after 2018. Not that Klinsmann would have been a better hire, but at least it would have changed things up. Instead we'll watch Big Sam struggle then get replaced by Steve Bruce, Alan Pardew, Gareth Southgate, or some other nondescript Brit that can't win at a big tourney. At least they're predictable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 20, 2016, 06:32:56 PM
Classic England, hire another mediocre Englishman who'll underachieve and be out after 2018. Not that Klinsmann would have been a better hire, but at least it would have changed things up. Instead we'll watch Big Sam struggle then get replaced by Steve Bruce, Alan Pardew, Gareth Southgate, or some other nondescript Brit that can't win at a big tourney. At least they're predictable.

As much as I love west ham, that team is the very definition of mediocrity, and until Bilic got there last year they were pretty content with it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on July 20, 2016, 07:13:37 PM
Yedlin is only on loan at Sunderland, and he played well last year.  He may not stay, but if Spurs don't bring him back, I don't think he'll have a problem with suitors.

Reports were that Sunderland were looking to buy Yedlin, now that isn't certain anymore.  He isn't going to get any time at Tottenham, and I realize he'll have suitors calling, but will they be in the Premier League or another league with similar talent (Bundesliga, La Liga)?  There's the major uncertainty.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on August 16, 2016, 09:29:42 AM
I decided to start doing stats for the EPL, Championship, and La Liga (next week) as well as MLS. I may do BE soccer as well.

Nobody I know cares about Bundesliga or the Italian league. If there's interest, I'll do it.

If you have questions about your team, just ask me. I'll explain using the stats.

EPL
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/epl/

Championship
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/championship/

MLS
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/mls-aggregate-ranking/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 16, 2016, 12:19:06 PM
I decided to start doing stats for the EPL, Championship, and La Liga (next week) as well as MLS. I may do BE soccer as well.

Nobody I know cares about Bundesliga or the Italian league. If there's interest, I'll do it.

If you have questions about your team, just ask me. I'll explain using the stats.

EPL
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/epl/

Championship
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/championship/

MLS
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/mls-aggregate-ranking/

Thanks!

I certainly didn't need the stats to tell me the Fire suck though. Glad there are rumblings of Hauptman selling the team. He's a freaking waste of an owner.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on August 16, 2016, 12:29:08 PM
I decided to start doing stats for the EPL, Championship, and La Liga (next week) as well as MLS. I may do BE soccer as well.

Nobody I know cares about Bundesliga or the Italian league. If there's interest, I'll do it.

If you have questions about your team, just ask me. I'll explain using the stats.

EPL
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/epl/

Championship
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/championship/

MLS
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/mls-aggregate-ranking/

I'm a big NYCFC fan and really have no quarrel with where you have us ranked, but moreso curious as to how that under/over ordeal works in comparing the two ranks.

Also curious as to how the Red Bulls are ranked so high.  They are really good at home, but one of the worst road teams in the league.  Add that they have some serious injury concerns mounting (understood that this probably doesn't factor that) and I'm not certain they'll continue to make a whole lot of noise.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 16, 2016, 12:32:04 PM
Thinking about starting a YouTube channel about soccer. As some of you know I'm going to London for sports journalism so trying to build up a portfolio. Y'all should subscribe when I have it up and running.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on August 16, 2016, 01:41:01 PM
Thanks!

I certainly didn't need the stats to tell me the Fire suck though. Glad there are rumblings of Hauptman selling the team. He's a freaking waste of an owner.

I started doing this because I wanted to find out if the Fire were any good. All the stats tell me now is that the Fire are bad everywhere. yay.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on August 16, 2016, 02:00:59 PM
I'm a big NYCFC fan and really have no quarrel with where you have us ranked, but moreso curious as to how that under/over ordeal works in comparing the two ranks.

Also curious as to how the Red Bulls are ranked so high.  They are really good at home, but one of the worst road teams in the league.  Add that they have some serious injury concerns mounting (understood that this probably doesn't factor that) and I'm not certain they'll continue to make a whole lot of noise.

The over/under is just a comparison of where they rank on some stats vs where they are in PPM. NYCFC is ranked 5th in PPM, but the overall stats rank them at 7.6. They have the 7th best goal differential and the 5th best three factors. (But wait, shouldn't that average 6? Yes, it should. I actually track three other stats for MLS and only recently removed them from the site to simplify the message. One of the other three is home and away record. anyway...) The entire thing is imperfect science. If there's a big discrepancy, ask why and look.

NYCFC has a good offense (#3). They are one of the best teams at taking quality shots and they finish a higher percentage of their chances too. Normally, I'd say this might be luck, but NYCFC does have highly skilled players.

Their defense needs help. It's sixteenth overall. They give up a lot of shots and are only average at allowing quality shots. Opponents finish a bit higher than normal too.

The stats love NYRB. They have the #1 offense and the #6 defense. Their offensive profile is similar to NYCFC's, but they take a few more inaccurate shots. On defense, they are really good at preventing shots. They haven't been overly lucky.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on August 22, 2016, 09:31:34 AM
Updated with La Liga
The site has updated stats for the EPL, Championship, and MLS as of this weekend. Ask me about your team and I'll show you how I use the stats.

EPL
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/epl/

MLS
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/mls-aggregate-ranking/

Championship
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/championship/

La Liga
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/la-liga/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 06, 2016, 06:49:16 PM
I started doing this because I wanted to find out if the Fire were any good. All the stats tell me now is that the Fire are bad everywhere. yay.

Update: Fire look MUCH better with Solignac and de Leeuw. Get a winger and a #10 as DPs this offseason, plus the aforementioned 2 players, plus another year of experience for the back four/Polster? That could be a super competitive team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 06, 2016, 10:48:18 PM
Man oh man, Christian Pulisic is fun to watch. Kid can create, put it on frame, make timely tackles...I hate getting excited for "the next big thing" but he could really be a world class player. Not saying he's a Messi or Ronaldo or even close, but maybe one of the best players on an elite club team. It's a long way to go, but I don't think I've ever seen a talent like this that was actually delivering at the senior level at this age for the USA ever.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on September 06, 2016, 11:22:29 PM
Man oh man, Christian Pulisic is fun to watch. Kid can create, put it on frame, make timely tackles...I hate getting excited for "the next big thing" but he could really be a world class player. Not saying he's a Messi or Ronaldo or even close, but maybe one of the best players on an elite club team. It's a long way to go, but I don't think I've ever seen a talent like this that was actually delivering at the senior level at this age for the USA ever.

I hear that. It always seems like the next great American soccer prodigy ends up failing for one reason or another, so I'm trying to stay grounded with Pulisic. But watching his technique, movement, passing... hard not to get carried away.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 07, 2016, 07:49:28 AM
Pulisic. Yup.

Wood and altidore aren't going to work together.

Klejstan is incredibly successful when he has teammates who move around him. Great vision and passing.

Still hate Fabian at LB.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on September 07, 2016, 10:16:10 AM
Man oh man, Christian Pulisic is fun to watch. Kid can create, put it on frame, make timely tackles...I hate getting excited for "the next big thing" but he could really be a world class player. Not saying he's a Messi or Ronaldo or even close, but maybe one of the best players on an elite club team. It's a long way to go, but I don't think I've ever seen a talent like this that was actually delivering at the senior level at this age for the USA ever.

If I was to compare him to a player I think maybe a Mesut Ozul.  Obviously not on that talent level quite yet, but he can get there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on September 07, 2016, 10:52:07 AM
By the way, I added some new sections to the site.

CONCACAF (aka USMNT world cup qualifying)
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/concacaf/

Big East Men's
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/archive-information/big-east-mens-soccer/

Big East Women's
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/archive-information/big-east-womens-soccer/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 07, 2016, 10:55:25 AM
Pulisic. Yup.

Wood and altidore aren't going to work together.

Klejstan is incredibly successful when he has teammates who move around him. Great vision and passing.

Still hate Fabian at LB.

Wood was directly responsible for all the space Pulisic and Klejstan had last night. Jozy has been more direct in his goal attempts in the last two matches playing alongside Wood than at any other point in his career. Wood's tenacity is the reason he's not going to be moved from that starting spot because he, quite literally, is at the forefront of what JK wants to see from his outfield 10.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 07, 2016, 11:16:24 AM
Wood was directly responsible for all the space Pulisic and Klejstan had last night. Jozy has been more direct in his goal attempts in the last two matches playing alongside Wood than at any other point in his career. Wood's tenacity is the reason he's not going to be moved from that starting spot because he, quite literally, is at the forefront of what JK wants to see from his outfield 10.

I understand that. The problem is, they occupy the same space and, more than once, were making the same runs. Maybe over time they can co-exist. I just don't see it happening.

I like Wood and his instincts/ability. I'm really impressed at Jozy's goal-scoring lately.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 07, 2016, 03:41:33 PM
Both Wood and Altidore are playing well, but I think Jordan Morris would complement either of them better than they complement each other.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on September 15, 2016, 10:58:34 AM
Sorry to keep pimping my own stuff (I'm really not)

EPL
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/epl/

Championship
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/championship/

MLS
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/mls-aggregate-ranking/

By the way, I added some new sections to the site.

CONCACAF (aka USMNT world cup qualifying)
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/concacaf/

Big East Men's
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/archive-information/big-east-mens-soccer/

Big East Women's
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/archive-information/big-east-womens-soccer/

Now I included THE CHAMPIONSSSSSSS
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/champions-league/

Pretty much everything is current except for the BE Men's Soccer stats. If you like soccer, chances are there are some high-level stats about your team (and their opponents). That is, unless you enjoy Bundesliga or (shudder) like Italian soccer. For those leagues, none of my friends care about those teams and no one asked me to do them. /shrugs
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on September 16, 2016, 10:02:19 AM
Got to meet Paul Merson and Willy Sagnol yesterday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 16, 2016, 06:19:35 PM
Got to meet Paul Merson and Willy Sagnol yesterday.

Was Merson able to stand on his own?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on September 16, 2016, 08:01:10 PM
Was Merson able to stand on his own?

Haha someone had to say it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on September 18, 2016, 10:16:15 AM
Few things, Crystal Palace is a nice little place to watch a match. Peter Crouch is still playing somehow. Geoff Cameron was absolutely terrible for Stoke today, probably 3 of the 4 palace goals were his fault.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on September 19, 2016, 01:25:54 PM
Sorry to keep pimping my own stuff (I'm really not)

EPL
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/epl/

Championship
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/championship/

MLS
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/mls-aggregate-ranking/

Now I included THE CHAMPIONSSSSSSS
http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/champions-league/

Pretty much everything is current except for the BE Men's Soccer stats. If you like soccer, chances are there are some high-level stats about your team (and their opponents). That is, unless you enjoy Bundesliga or (shudder) like Italian soccer. For those leagues, none of my friends care about those teams and no one asked me to do them. /shrugs

All you'd have to do is do the statistics on Bayern Munich and you'd have the Bundesliga covered.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on September 26, 2016, 05:59:14 PM
Big Sam and the FA are in some serious trouble right now. Too bad, was going to Wembely to have a chance to interview him as well in November.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on November 15, 2016, 11:45:31 PM
Soooooo, uhhhhh... Jurgen?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 15, 2016, 11:46:44 PM
USA is 0-2-0 in qualifying, with a 6-1 differential against. Lost to Mexico in Columbus for the first time ever before getting shelled by Costa Rica 4-0 away. Might be time for a new manager.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on November 16, 2016, 07:38:37 AM
USA is 0-2-0 in qualifying, with a 6-1 differential against. Lost to Mexico in Columbus for the first time ever before getting shelled by Costa Rica 4-0 away. Might be time for a new manager.

Might? MIGHT?? Perfect time to switch, no qualifiers until March and next camp isn't until January. If last night's performance wasn't a team quiting on their manager I don't know what is.

I like Jurgen as a PR guy and love him as a player, but he is clearly out matched as a manager, even within CONCACAFE
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on November 16, 2016, 07:47:34 AM
Bruce Arena would be perfect given his success and the fact that he is out of contract with the Galaxy.  He isn't necessarily a long-term solution but IMO would get this group qualified for the World Cup and have them competitive.

During that time, USA Soccer is going to have to figure out its strategic direction and go from there.  The whole organization seems like a mess right now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on November 16, 2016, 08:00:27 AM
I just can't believe the lack of Julian Green and Kljestan on the field these last two qualifiers as well as the choice of Timmy Chandler over Yedlin.  I thought the last chance Chandler got was going to be his last and he was absolutely dreadful last night.  I thought for sure after half he would be taken off and Yedlin come on.  Can't believe he went the full 90.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 16, 2016, 08:32:49 AM
I said the same regarding timing on Twitter. I think this move should have been made before Camp Cupcake a year ago, but now it's even more dire.

It's just nonsensical. Changing formations before your play your biggest rival? Not adjusting to a deficit in a place you've never played with clearly exhausted players?

Arena would be my pick. Two year deal to get us qualified and through Russia, then hire a replacement with a fresh look at a new cycle.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on November 16, 2016, 08:51:56 AM
I don't know who watched last night on BeIn Sport, but the commentator was pretty much brutally honest about many of the points you brought up brew.  For instance, asking why they played two friendlies against soft competition and wondering why the formation change wasn't developed more in those friendlies.  It was better than the borderline jingoistic coverage from FS1 the other night.
Title: THEY DID IT!!! KLINSMANN IS GONE!!!
Post by: brewcity77 on November 21, 2016, 02:24:58 PM
Holy crap, USA Soccer actually pulled the plug. Jurgen Klinsmann has been relieved of his duties as national team manager and technical director according to a Tweet from US Soccer. Rumor has it Arena will take over. I'm overjoyed right now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 21, 2016, 03:23:01 PM
And yet... Sunil keeps his job.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 05, 2016, 11:51:20 AM
At the FA Cup draw tonight. Steven Gerard in house tonight.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on January 10, 2017, 12:55:13 PM
I think FIFA may have just killed the World Cup. Not a sky is falling kind of guy but I think between this and the corruption and having to move 2022 WC to the summer....it might die a slow death.

Thoughts?
http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2017/01/10/fifa-world-cup-expansion-approved (http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2017/01/10/fifa-world-cup-expansion-approved)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on January 10, 2017, 02:32:46 PM
The 2022 WC is moved to winter.

But here is my quick take on the expanded field. 

1. I don't mind the idea in concept.

2. But the three team pools are dumb.  Team A defeats Team B.  Team B draws with Team C.  Team A and Team C could then conspire for a draw.  Team A wins the group and Team C advances.  Plus you have to deal with extra days off, etc.  And a 32 team playoff round?

3.  I can't think of a better alternative however which means the idea I don't mind "in concept" is likely not attainable in reality. 

4.  The USA is going to get the 2026 bid IMO.  It is one of the few countries that can pull this thing off.  It will be harder for all but the biggest of nations to host this on their own.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on January 10, 2017, 02:38:40 PM
The 2022 WC is moved to winter.

But here is my quick take on the expanded field. 

1. I don't mind the idea in concept.

2. But the three team pools are dumb.  Team A defeats Team B.  Team B draws with Team C.  Team A and Team C could then conspire for a draw.  Team A wins the group and Team C advances.  Plus you have to deal with extra days off, etc.  And a 32 team playoff round?

3.  I can't think of a better alternative however which means the idea I don't mind "in concept" is likely not attrightble in reality. 

4.  The USA is going to get the 2026 bid IMO.  It is one of the few countries that can pull this thing off.  It will be harder for all but the biggest of nations to host this on their own.

Thanks for the correct, meant to write winter and then involuntarily wished it was summer IRL instead of referring to some event that won't happen thanks to SMOD.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 10, 2017, 02:39:33 PM
The 2022 WC is moved to winter.

But here is my quick take on the expanded field. 

1. I don't mind the idea in concept.

2. But the three team pools are dumb.  Team A defeats Team B.  Team B draws with Team C.  Team A and Team C could then conspire for a draw.  Team A wins the group and Team C advances.  Plus you have to deal with extra days off, etc.  And a 32 team playoff round?

3.  I can't think of a better alternative however which means the idea I don't mind "in concept" is likely not attrightble in reality. 

4.  The USA is going to get the 2026 bid IMO.  It is one of the few countries that can pull this thing off.  It will be harder for all but the biggest of nations to host this on their own.

Yup, pretty much eliminates any country not named, US, UK, France or Germany, and I doubt France will be getting a major bid of some sort anytime soon.

I think you may see more combined efforts like South Korea and Japan in 2002. Something like Chile, Argentina and Uruguay, or the Nordic countries.

I think its a silly expansion, equivalent to if the NCAA wanted to expand the tournament to 96 teams. The competition is diluted enough already, so why make the product worse? Oh wait, its FIFA and all they care about it $£€...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on January 13, 2017, 09:13:03 AM
I'm not for any expansion, it will massively dilute the product, but if you're going this route, just go to 64 and keep the 4 team groups. There biggest mistake in my opinion is the decision to do 3-team groups. It would even be better if they did 4-team groups and guaranteed 1/2 advance with the 8 best 3rd place teams joining them.

Regardless, Euro 2016 sucked because the larger field let crap teams in. Yes, Iceland was fun, but on the whole it was a poor tournament. This will lead to the same.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jutaw22mu on January 13, 2017, 08:59:48 PM
They are probably only doing the expansion because England sucks so bad and half the time can't get out of group stages.  I definitely disfavor expansion.

The US should host 2026. Its bs that not only were they not selected for 2022, but they were denied in favor of Qatar. Now all the league play (EPL, Bundesliga, etc) is going to be disrupted so that the WC can be held in winter. Generally after these events the players are exhausted and need rest, so this actually has a more detrimental effect on top clubs who will send large numbers of players to the World Cup.   Not to mention by hosting it in Qatar, FIFA is slapping their female fanbase in the face and saying they don't give a damn about those fans.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 13, 2017, 09:43:12 PM
They are probably only doing the expansion because England sucks so bad and half the time can't get out of group stages.  I definitely disfavor expansion.

The US should host 2026. Its bs that not only were they not selected for 2022, but they were denied in favor of Qatar. Now all the league play (EPL, Bundesliga, etc) is going to be disrupted so that the WC can be held in winter. Generally after these events the players are exhausted and need rest, so this actually has a more detrimental effect on top clubs who will send large numbers of players to the World Cup.   Not to mention by hosting it in Qatar, FIFA is slapping their female fanbase in the face and saying they don't give a damn about those fans.

Welcome to FIFA, where nothing else matters except following the $£€. Sad state of affairs really.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on January 14, 2017, 09:20:18 AM
FIFA reeks of corruption, with 2018 & 2022 glaring examples, but as long as we get 2026, I'm glad the USA didn't get 2022. Call me sentimental, but a potential semifinal or quarterfinal on July 4, 2026 (America's 250th birthday) would be awesome.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on January 14, 2017, 03:00:32 PM
FIFA reeks of corruption, with 2018 & 2022 glaring examples, but as long as we get 2026, I'm glad the USA didn't get 2022. Call me sentimental, but a potential semifinal or quarterfinal on July 4, 2026 (America's 250th birthday) would be awesome.
I just hope I live that long  ;)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 20, 2017, 05:49:38 PM
Wasnt at the game, but was doing some filming and interviewing around the stadium and in the local pub for the Sutton United vs Arsenal game, and I had an absolute blast. May have been one of my favorite sporting events Ive been around.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on February 20, 2017, 06:08:41 PM
Wasnt at the game, but was doing some filming and interviewing around the stadium and in the local pub for the Sutton United vs Arsenal game, and I had an absolute blast. May have been one of my favorite sporting events Ive been around.

It was a lot of fun to watch from 4800 miles away, glad you got the chance to experience it up close.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: NYWarrior on June 08, 2017, 01:23:23 PM
USMNT plays an important match today in Denver.  Check out Henry Sugar's tweetstorm preview of the match starting here

https://twitter.com/LoweDownStats/status/872877819084365824 (https://twitter.com/LoweDownStats/status/872877819084365824)

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 09, 2017, 07:35:34 AM
Somewhat lackluster performance from the USMNT.  However, Pulisic is God.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: NYWarrior on June 09, 2017, 11:15:51 AM
statistically the USMT were quite good

https://twitter.com/LoweDownStats/status/873152118282170369 (https://twitter.com/LoweDownStats/status/873152118282170369)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 09, 2017, 11:58:05 AM
statistically the USMT were quite good

https://twitter.com/LoweDownStats/status/873152118282170369 (https://twitter.com/LoweDownStats/status/873152118282170369)

True, but the problem was at home, against T&T, they just didn't generate too many dangerous chances.  The two goals, Dempsey's shot off the crossbar, Jozy's header high, Wood's off the post, and another Pulisic breakaway he skied, there wasn't a whole ton.

And on the flip-side, T&T should have scored twice, had a goal called back by the slightest of offsides, and another rocket that was sent wide.

Pulisic, Nagbe, Villafana, Cameron were all great.  Dempsey, Bradley, and Johnson were all quite disappointing and Brooks looked a little shaky at times.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 09, 2017, 12:01:14 PM
I went to a Crystal Palace vs. Stoke game this year and Cameron was embarrassingly bad that day. I still think the US should play 3 Centre Backs with Fab and Yedlin as wingbacks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 09, 2017, 12:14:19 PM
I went to a Crystal Palace vs. Stoke game this year and Cameron was embarrassingly bad that day. I still think the US should play 3 Centre Backs with Fab and Yedlin as wingbacks.

That may not be too far out of the future with CCV, EPB, and a lot of other young, talented CB's coming up.

I honestly just want to see Bradley taken off the field and give Cameron a shot at playing a pure destroyer 6.  Bradley just doesn't fit this team the best anymore with the other talent that is there and he gives the ball away too often in the back against talented teams.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 10, 2017, 10:51:08 AM
True, but the problem was at home, against T&T, they just didn't generate too many dangerous chances.  The two goals, Dempsey's shot off the crossbar, Jozy's header high, Wood's off the post, and another Pulisic breakaway he skied, there wasn't a whole ton.

And on the flip-side, T&T should have scored twice, had a goal called back by the slightest of offsides, and another rocket that was sent wide.

Pulisic, Nagbe, Villafana, Cameron were all great.  Dempsey, Bradley, and Johnson were all quite disappointing and Brooks looked a little shaky at times.

To be fair, offsides is offsides no matter slight or wide. And a missed shot is a missed shot, no matter it's velocity.  That's a loose definition of "should" you're using.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on June 11, 2017, 07:54:53 PM
I went to a Crystal Palace vs. Stoke game this year and Cameron was embarrassingly bad that day. I still think the US should play 3 Centre Backs with Fab and Yedlin as wingbacks.

Bruce Arena reads Scoop!

Although a back 3 of Gonzalez, Cameron, and Ream isn't the most airtight group.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 11, 2017, 07:56:05 PM
Beasley getting abused.  Lack of help defense.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jutaw22mu on June 11, 2017, 08:09:17 PM
Guzan is garbage.  Hard to believe we don't have anything better in the system.  A precipitous drop from Howard.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 11, 2017, 08:52:38 PM
Effing hate short corners, never seen one work. I think it's the worst strategy in all of sports. Closely followed by parking the bus when you're only up by one goal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 11, 2017, 09:23:57 PM
Held on by the fingernails.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jutaw22mu on June 11, 2017, 10:38:27 PM
Only the third time ever we have tied them there?  Not a single win?  I think things are going to turn around.  Still need to find a goalkeeper though. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 12, 2017, 06:45:12 AM
Only the third time ever we have tied them there?  Not a single win?  I think things are going to turn around.  Still need to find a goalkeeper though.

Things are definitely on the upswing, lot of great young talent out there.  Looking at our roster last night and the number of guys there under the age of 25, then consider down the road, the U20 kids.  Sargent just won the silver boot at the U20 World Cup as a 17 year old.

Ethan Horvath is most likely the long term answer at keeper after this cycle.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 12, 2017, 06:47:51 AM
Interesting tactics by Bruce last night that worked.  We were ok with conceding possession to Mexico (and the stats show this) but ultimately had about the same scoring chances on the night.  First time we've played at Azteca and gotten a result that we actually deserved IMO.

Would have been interesting to see how the match would have went if Mexico went down to 10 early in the game as should have happened.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 12, 2017, 05:27:25 PM
Interesting tactics by Bruce last night that worked.  We were ok with conceding possession to Mexico (and the stats show this) but ultimately had about the same scoring chances on the night.  First time we've played at Azteca and gotten a result that we actually deserved IMO.

Would have been interesting to see how the match would have went if Mexico went down to 10 early in the game as should have happened.

Seems strategy​ was to shut down middle of the field possession, which they generally accomplished. As well, 1 of the 3 CBs was always free-marking chicharito. Good defensive strategy, overall.

I also think Bruce was experimenting with strategy and lineups. His goal was just to get through without yellows or injuries and try things out.

Counterattack worked pretty well. I love yedlin. Needed a little better finishing. Thought pulisic might add to his mythos in the second half when he beat 2 defenders and ripped a shot just wide.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jutaw22mu on June 12, 2017, 05:58:44 PM
That play by Pulisic was amazing!  Too bad he struck it just wide of the net.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on June 12, 2017, 06:20:04 PM
Don't  remember El Tri receiving a card last night, though there should have been a red one early on and Cicheretto desrved one for his dive. But i have been at futbol games in Mexico where the refs are walked onto and off the field surrouned by armed and armored guards so there is intimidation factor
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 13, 2017, 07:08:47 AM
Seems strategy​ was to shut down middle of the field possession, which they generally accomplished. As well, 1 of the 3 CBs was always free-marking chicharito. Good defensive strategy, overall.

I also think Bruce was experimenting with strategy and lineups. His goal was just to get through without yellows or injuries and try things out.

Counterattack worked pretty well. I love yedlin. Needed a little better finishing. Thought pulisic might add to his mythos in the second half when he beat 2 defenders and ripped a shot just wide.

Exactly.  And after reading more about it later, Bruce said he basically had two squads practicing the two different formations for the two different matches.  Much, much different than what Jurgen did in barely practicing 3 in the back and then running it out there against Mexico in Columbus.

People will look at the possession stats and get the opinion that the US was dominated, but it was a very even match.  Sure, Mexico could have won if that free-kick was slightly better or that back post shot wasn't skied, but we had our chances too (Wood, Bradley, Pulisic).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 13, 2017, 08:56:16 PM
Bunches of thoughts...

Beasley was okay on the goal, the help defense was not. Beasley funneled Vela inside, no one else stepped to the attacker.

Guzan & Howard to me are pretty similar. This is the worst our pool has been since probably the early 1990s when Meola and Friedel were just kids. Hope some youngster emerges soon. Horvath, Cropper, and Jesse Gonzalez should all get a shot.

We have one all time win at Azteca, but it was a friendly.

I expected a loss, so I'm pleased with the result. 7 points should see us qualify, but all four games remaining are winnable. We have a winning record in qualifying in both Honduras and Trinidad.

I liked the strategy. Concede possession to marshal the defense. Keep it close and hope to nick a late goal. Almost got us the win. Arena has done a fantastic job. That said, I still hope he steps down after Russia. I don't think he's a long term answer, but he's an upgrade from Jurgen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 14, 2017, 06:59:27 AM
Bunches of thoughts...

Beasley was okay on the goal, the help defense was not. Beasley funneled Vela inside, no one else stepped to the attacker.

Guzan & Howard to me are pretty similar. This is the worst our pool has been since probably the early 1990s when Meola and Friedel were just kids. Hope some youngster emerges soon. Horvath, Cropper, and Jesse Gonzalez should all get a shot.

We have one all time win at Azteca, but it was a friendly.

I expected a loss, so I'm pleased with the result. 7 points should see us qualify, but all four games remaining are winnable. We have a winning record in qualifying in both Honduras and Trinidad.

I liked the strategy. Concede possession to marshal the defense. Keep it close and hope to nick a late goal. Almost got us the win. Arena has done a fantastic job. That said, I still hope he steps down after Russia. I don't think he's a long term answer, but he's an upgrade from Jurgen.

Good stuff Brew.  I thought the Mexico goal was a combo of Cameron worrying too much about Chicharito and Tim Ream not getting back from the corner in time.  Beasley did what he needed.

I like Horvath, Cropper really hasn't impressed this year with the Revs.  I'm a bit biased as a NYCFC fan, but Sean Johnson is having a great year and I'd really like to see him get a decent run in the Gold Cup.

Agreed re: Arena.  Get through Russia, then I'd like to see someone like Oscar Pareja take over the reins.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 15, 2017, 03:33:36 PM
My two cents on USA v Mexico

https://twitter.com/LoweDownStats/status/874235972443090944

In words, I viewed the game as a good defensive matchup for both teams. I was pretty pleased with the road defensive performance based primarily on the defensive shot quality. Mexico is the best defensive team in CONCACAF, btw.

If you look at the comparison between Arena and Klinsmann, you can definitely see a change in focus from the approach. Arena definitely wants to focus on fewer, higher quality shots on offense, and he's willing to concede plenty of bad shots to his opposition. I'm also basing this statement on how his LA Galaxy team's stats were in prior years.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 19, 2017, 11:19:53 PM
Winning ugly.   The whole tournament.    The defense is astoundingly inept, but the other teams have not put the bunnies away.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 20, 2017, 08:30:23 AM
Right now, I think we miss the final again. Costa Rica has had the strongest side this tournament and we just looked disjointed yesterday. Maybe that changes with a few more days of practice, but fitting in first-teamers with guys that were just starting to gel seems like a mistake, at least that many of them. Honestly, I really thought we missed Kelyn Rowe last night. He's been great all tournament and I'm baffled why he got sent home. He did great at threading passes in the final third and would've fixed what was one of the two biggest problems last night.

The other glaring issue was the defense. So many dumb mistakes. Lichaj had a terrible game. El Salvador could've had three goals off his mistakes alone had they not been so wasteful. Sure, he got the goal and it was well-taken, but all-in-all he was awful. Gonzalez was okay, but Hedges and Morrow were both marginal in defense at best. Gonzalez would probably be my man of the match, between the game-winner and the at least average defense.

I don't expect much on Saturday. Costa Rica won't likely be as poor at finishing as El Salvador was, and if we can't string passes in the final third I don't see how we'll score. I really hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 22, 2017, 09:28:17 PM
Bruce "whose in charge of the ball boys" Arena
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 22, 2017, 10:36:44 PM
Okay so if everyone is healthy and playing, would like to see this lineup rolled out.

        Besler        Brooks       Cameron


 Yedlin                                                 Fab

                Bradley         ?????

                          Pulisic

                Dempsey       Morris/Altidore
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 23, 2017, 12:01:57 AM
Wow. Great performance. The real difference was in the middle of the pitch, where Acosta, Bradley, Nagbe, and the defense smartly held possession. When we did attack, it was deliberate and dangerous. Nagbe was fantastic, though Morris, Altidore, and Arriola presented routine threats too. Dempsey, despite his short stint, was my man of the match for setting up the opener and adding the brilliantly taken free kick to tie Donovan's scoring record.

Honorable mention to Howard, who wasn't called on often, but came up huge when needed. He didn't put a foot wrong all night. The defense was also much better in front of him. Gonzalez and Besler were comfortable and composed. Though my favorite play by a defender was made irrelevant by Howard. On one of the Costa Rica breakthroughs where Howard came up with a mammoth save, Zusi was sliding in perfect position 12 feet behind him. Had it got through, he would've been the hero. And I rarely praise Zusi, especially in defense.

Great match, great performance at both ends. Deserved win. Looking forward to Wednesday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 23, 2017, 10:14:00 PM
And it's...Jamaica. Two years after losing to the Reggae Boys in the semifinals, we'll be facing them for the Gold Cup after they dispatched Mexico 1-0 on a late free kick goal from Kimani Lawrence. I only watched the second half, but Jamaica was indeed the better side from what I saw. They were quick in attack and stout in defense. Their keeper was really in great form. Should be a good game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 27, 2017, 11:41:39 AM
Ended up being a decent final. Slow first half, but USA started building the attack and it paid off with Jozy's brilliant free kick. No keeper in the world would've saved that.

Second half was very good. Jamaica's equalizer was definitely on Jordan Morris. Their counter was generally effective and while the USA had the bulk of possession and chances, it was nervy at the end. Jamaica kept busy enough pressure on to keep it exciting, and we kept chipping away.

Suiting that Morris made amends with the 89th minute winner. After watching this tournament, it feels like Kellyn Acosta, Jordan Morris, and Kelyn Rowe are ready for primetime. Dempsey and Howard still have gas in the tank and will likely be on the plane to Russia. Watching Gonzalez and Besler reunited was also nice. They play well together and I'm still not sure why Klinsmann broke up a defense that was working.

Arena did well and continues to impress. The group stage wasn't inspiring, and the El Salvador game was nervy, but he pulled enough of the right levers and this team was at their best against the two best teams they played.

14 games unbeaten now and time to start thinking about the roster for Russia. 23 names to come, and qualifying starting again soon in September. Need at least 4 points from those games, though 6 is realistic.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 27, 2017, 12:13:46 PM
Here are my post-Gold Cup thoughts on the 23 members that will be going to Russia:

Goalkeepers (3):

1) Tim Howard
2) Brad Guzan
3) Ethan Horvath
4) Jesse Gonzalez
5) Bill Hamid

Howard and Guzan are 1/2, pretty much guaranteed. It could be the last World Cup for both, as the younger Guzan will be 37 in 2022. Horvath seems the favorite for the third keeper spot, though any of those three could sneak onto the plane.

Defenders (8)

1) John Brooks
2) DeAndre Yedlin
3) Geoff Cameron
4) Omar Gonzalez
5) Matt Besler
6) Graham Zusi
7) Jorge Villafana
8) Eric Lichaj
9) Matt Hedges
10) Cameron Carter-Vickers
11) Tim Ream

It's unnerving that 4 of our top 5 defenders are center backs. Decent chance Fabian Johnson is deployed at the back simply because he's better than anyone else back there. The guy that could really move up this list is CCV. If he can work his way into the Spurs rotation, look for him to be on the plane to Russia, and possibly even battle for a spot in the starting eleven. Not a lot of depth at the fullback positions. I'm not in love with Zusi, Villafana, or Lichaj and could see any of them replaced with someone like Ream who can be more versatile and play almost anywhere across the back line.

Midfielders (8)

1) Christian Pulisic
2) Michael Bradley
3) Fabian Johnson
4) Darlington Nagbe
5) Kellyn Acosta
6) Danny Williams
7) Gyasi Zardes
8) Sebastian Lletget
9) Kelyn Rowe
10) Alejandro Bedoya
11) Benny Feilhaber

The first four are all but guaranteed. After that it's really tough. I expect Arena will look to two-way players on the bench, and Acosta is a solid central mid while Williams is the best central midfield destroyer we have now that the wheels have fallen off Jermaine Jones. Zardes and Lletget both played for Bruce previously and provide speed and width. I like Rowe, but have him just outside. Bedoya and Feilhaber are old stalwarts who could slide in if Bruce wanted experience.

Forwards (4)

1) Jozy Altidore
2) Bobby Wood
3) Clint Dempsey
4) Jordan Morris
5) Dom Dwyer
6) Josh Sargent

Altidore and Wood, barring injury, are locks. Dempsey seems to be accepting the super-sub role, and despite his age (he'll be 35) he can unlock defenses like no other in red, white, and blue. At the moment, I'd give the last forward spot to Morris, though it's neck and neck with Dwyer. If it's a surprise name, my bet is on the youngster, Sargent, who will only be 18 but has pace and an uncanny knack for scoring goals. I just don't see Agudelo or Johannsson on this roster.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 27, 2017, 08:30:49 PM
Cant disagree too much with this.  Though honestly, after Howard I almost want to bring Horvath and either Gonzalez or Hamid.  Guzan has already fallen off and as you said, he wont be there in 2022, I'd rather see if the young guys show anything in training to prepare us for the loss of the best keeper in US history.

As for forwards, pretty straight forward, no pun intended, but Id like to see Dwyer fit in there somewhere.  The man just finds a way to score goals, just a pure poacher, but I dont see any way he gets the nod over Morris, especially with the latter being younger.

Speaking of younger, now that I'm looking, Arena familiarity or not, I'd rather have Emerson Hyndman take that last MF spot over Lletget.  I think he's going to be a very familiar face in the US kit for the next decade.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: fjm on July 27, 2017, 11:22:06 PM
In Barça and Paris in mid August. Going to try ant catch both a PSG and Barça game. Cant wait!
Already been to one Barça game in my life. Euro soccer is just such an amazing atmosphere.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on July 28, 2017, 12:26:07 PM
1) I wonder if Sargent makes it just to get his feet wet.  Even if he doesn't play in WC 2018, going through it once would be beneficial just for the experience.  I imagine he'll be a big part of the USMNT by 2022 and would love for him to be familiar with the WC routine.

2) In order to keep 5 forwards, Arena would have to go with 7 defenders, 7 MF, and Fabian Johnson as a swingman D/MF.

3) What formation does the USMNT play and who are the starting 11?  There is some value in having different formations and strategies available to matchup with opponents and keep the opposition of balance.

But I struggle with how to best deploy the best 11.  Pulisic is best as a true 10 in a 4-5-1 but Altidore is best paired with another striker in a 4-4-2.  Pulisic might be able to play up top in a 4-4-2 diamond but Bradley is best when paired with another CMF in a traditional 4-4-2.  And I still don't know where the best spot for Fabian Johnson is.  He can play either FB or WMF but who else is on the pitch determines where he lines up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 28, 2017, 12:34:53 PM
Arena will never do it but I stand by a 3-5-2. Fab as a wingback Bradley and someone else playing deep and Pulisic behind Jozy and whoever else plays on top.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 28, 2017, 02:55:35 PM
Arena will never do it but I stand by a 3-5-2. Fab as a wingback Bradley and someone else playing deep and Pulisic behind Jozy and whoever else plays on top.

I absolutely love that honestly.  Something like
 
           Altidore      Wood
                    Pulisic
                   Nagbe
Johnson Bradley Acosta Yedlin
           Brooks     Cameron
                Howard

Basically Nagbe and Acosta in the middle of the pitch with Bradley sitting a bit deeper.  Danny Williams could take Acosta's spot too.  Very glad that he will be getting Premier League time this year with Huddersfield.






Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 28, 2017, 10:28:23 PM
Speaking of younger, now that I'm looking, Arena familiarity or not, I'd rather have Emerson Hyndman take that last MF spot over Lletget.  I think he's going to be a very familiar face in the US kit for the next decade.

Hyndmann is a good shout. Where he ends up this year could make a big difference. If he's on loan in the Championship, I could see him getting passed over. Another year making an impact at Rangers or if he can break into the lineup at Bournemouth, he might get a shot. Worth watching him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: fjm on August 21, 2017, 02:06:02 AM
Hooo-weee. I was at the PSG game last night here in France. Neymar is a beast. Although bummed he left my favorite club in Barçelona, It was crazy to see how good he played.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 02, 2017, 08:55:08 AM
Last night was a trainwreck. Granted, there should've been a penalty given, but the USA backline was awful. I put that down mostly to Ream. He may as well have handed the first goal to Costa Rica. Let Urena walk by him, then gave him way too much space in the box to get a shot off. Constantly gave the ball away and created far more danger than security.

One thing that stood out, Howard very rarely played long balls forward. Seemed like we were in danger a few times because of short passes forward, but the first goal came off a long ball from Howard, so that may have been by design.

Offensively, too many one-on-one attempts. When we played short passes, we had success. Ticos did what they do and congested the final third, which frustrated us. Countered well and kept us under pressure.;

Our defense was such a wreck. No chemistry between the centerbacks. Zusi and Villafana were constantly under pressure. When you have that much pressure on the fullbacks, we need the wings to track back to help. Zardes would've helped last night because he is very good at helping to cover overmatched fullbacks. Not having Brooks or Gonzalez to pair with Cameron really hurt.

Navas did come up with a couple fantastic saves, but it shouldn't have come to that. The offense needed to realize sooner that it wasn't about one man unlocking the defense but a team effort. They never seemed to want to play wide balls in that would have allowed Altidore to use his size and strength.

Suddenly Honduras is massively critical. Lose and we will likely be in fifth, even a draw will probably leave us staring at the playoff with two to go. The upside is that Honduras has a tough final two matches, and we still get Panama at home (this entire race is basically a three-team race for one spot). I think we need 14 points to be assured qualification. That means winning one on the road.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on September 02, 2017, 09:04:27 AM
Get a draw in Honduras and they should be fine.  Ending with Panama at home and on the road against a bad Trinidad team should result in six points.

If they fall into the playoff spot, they would go home and home v. the Asian playoff winners.  Here is my thought there.  Root for South Korea to win in Uzbekistan next week so they can wrap up their bid outright.  They have managed to screw up their qualification by losing to teams like Qatar and China.  The Koreans are usually too good. 

That would mean a playoff would likely be against Syria or Australia with Uzbekistan or Saudi Arabia as possibilities.  If that is the case, root for Syria because they have not been playing at home due to the conflict there.  Australia would be difficult IMO but the US would still be favored.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 02, 2017, 11:40:32 AM
Can we also talk about how STUPID it was of US Soccer to put this game in Northern NJ, home of the largest Costa Rican population in the country.  Twellman got really annoyed towards the end of the game for good reason.  Costa Rican chants and flags everywhere, getting "ole" chanted to extreme extents in your "home" stadium.  This was like playing Mexico in El Paso.

Granted, there were plenty of problems on the field, but it makes it tougher to settle in and especially fight back from 1 down when your home field advantage is nonexistent.  Playing road games in CONCACAF is hard enough as it is.

Pulisic shows plenty of flashes of what a special player he is, but you can see the nerves get to him at times, the finishing ability will come.  Its a bit tougher to play on the attack when you're not out there with Reus, Aubameyang, Sahin, and Kagawa.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on September 03, 2017, 06:41:05 PM
Granted, there should've been a penalty given, but the USA backline was awful. I put that down mostly to Ream. He may as well have handed the first goal to Costa Rica. Let Urena walk by him, then gave him way too much space in the box to get a shot off. Constantly gave the ball away and created far more danger than security.

I pin the first one on Howard as much as I do Ream. Positioning was horrid, and was beaten by a weak effort.

Cameron's giveaway for the second was a little... matchfixy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on September 04, 2017, 02:26:58 AM
Geoff Cameron is not that good of a defender though. At least not as good as people seem to think.

When I saw Stoke vs Palace last year, he was the culprit to blame for three of the four goals Palace scored.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 04, 2017, 03:09:41 AM
Geoff Cameron is not that good of a defender though. At least not as good as people seem to think.

When I saw Stoke vs Palace last year, he was the culprit to blame for three of the four goals Palace scored.

He's a perfectly fine center back on the wrong side of his prime.  He's steady when paired with another competent CB, unfortunately Ream is not that. That pass was poorly advised and cost us, but we have far more issues than Cameron. He's been one of the only consistent performers back there
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 04, 2017, 12:11:54 PM
He's a perfectly fine center back on the wrong side of his prime.  He's steady when paired with another competent CB, unfortunately Ream is not that. That pass was poorly advised and cost us, but we have far more issues than Cameron. He's been one of the only consistent performers back there

I prefer Cameron as a right back, but he's been okay when paired with Gonzalez or Brooks in the middle.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on September 05, 2017, 12:26:47 PM
Get a draw in Honduras and they should be fine.  Ending with Panama at home and on the road against a bad Trinidad team should result in six points.

If they fall into the playoff spot, they would go home and home v. the Asian playoff winners.  Here is my thought there.  Root for South Korea to win in Uzbekistan next week so they can wrap up their bid outright.  They have managed to screw up their qualification by losing to teams like Qatar and China.  The Koreans are usually too good. 

That would mean a playoff would likely be against Syria or Australia with Uzbekistan or Saudi Arabia as possibilities.  If that is the case, root for Syria because they have not been playing at home due to the conflict there.  Australia would be difficult IMO but the US would still be favored.


To follow this up, South Korea drew with Uzbekistan to clinch a birth in the Finals.  Syria also drew with put them in the playoff spot versus either Australia or Saudi Arabia.  Uzbekistan is eliminated.  The Saudis will clinch an automatic birth if they win tonight at home v. Japan.  A draw or loss means they are in the playoff spot and Australia clinches.

So IMO you root for Japan tonight, then you root for Syria in October's playoff.  That would be the easier path if the US is forced into the inter-confederation playoff in November.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on September 05, 2017, 04:19:08 PM
I prefer Cameron as a right back, but he's been okay when paired with Gonzalez or Brooks in the middle.

I don't see anyone on the US roster, besides Brooks, that when healthy is more capable than Cameron.  Yeah, he totally f'ed up against Costa Rica (somewhat similar in terms of what it led to, to his f'up against Portugal in the last WC), but he is quite solid.

Tonight's starting XI doesn't give me many good feels.  Looking at the standings and remaining games to be played for all teams, we really only need a draw out of this one to still finish 3rd, but a win would be massive for our confidence.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 05, 2017, 09:46:06 PM
That was ugly. Lucky to escape with a point. I definitely don't think 6 points from Panama and T&T is the given the pundits think. We've won 2/8 so far, seems unlikely we'll suddenly win 2/2. Panama/USA feels close to winner goes to Russia, especially if Panama wins tonight. That's no easy task. And we have yet to win on the road. Hopefully 12 points at least gets us to the playoff, because I'm not expecting more than that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 06, 2017, 08:33:06 PM
I feel like Sarah Palin because I CAN SEE RUSSIA FROM MY HOUSE!!!

Great game tonight. Pulisic was fantastic. Nagbe was the overlooked guy for me. Decent defense and the second goal was because of his brilliant over the top ball. Baffling that Panama came out 4-4-2. Allowed us tons of space and really opened up the game.

So many good performances. Wood and Altidore were great. Arriola really impressed. Such a weight off. Now just put it to bed by winning at T&T.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: warriorchick on October 07, 2017, 09:08:14 PM
I feel like Sarah Palin because I CAN SEE RUSSIA FROM MY HOUSE!!!

Great game tonight. Pulisic was fantastic. Nagbe was the overlooked guy for me. Decent defense and the second goal was because of his brilliant over the top ball. Baffling that Panama came out 4-4-2. Allowed us tons of space and really opened up the game.

So many good performances. Wood and Altidore were great. Arriola really impressed. Such a weight off. Now just put it to bed by winning at T&T.

So what was the score? Somehow I managed to get through the last 24 hours without finding out.  ;)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 07, 2017, 09:12:09 PM
So what was the score? Somehow I managed to get through the last 24 hours without finding out.  ;)

US won 4-0
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 08, 2017, 12:08:25 AM
I feel like Sarah Palin because I CAN SEE RUSSIA FROM MY HOUSE!!!

Great game tonight. Pulisic was fantastic. Nagbe was the overlooked guy for me. Decent defense and the second goal was because of his brilliant over the top ball. Baffling that Panama came out 4-4-2. Allowed us tons of space and really opened up the game.

So many good performances. Wood and Altidore were great. Arriola really impressed. Such a weight off. Now just put it to bed by winning at T&T.

I feel like this was Pulisic's coming out game in a way.  Sure he was great against T&T earlier in the summer, but he was a MENACE this coming.  The entire team played through him and he was masterful.  It was fantastic.

Arriola has a great work rate, extremely active.  Wood was a constant force as well, really getting beat up but kept pressing.

We should roll T&T.  Have to imagine they will be a bit deflated after having Mexico at bay for most of last night and briefly holding a lead.  Will be nice to not have to worry about our players being cut down once we get up like Panama.  Such egregious dirty play in the second half.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 08, 2017, 01:16:59 AM
Honestly, Panama's strategy was baffling. Not sure why they were so eager to attack. Left them wide open at the back. Both of the first two goals came on initial longballs, the counter-attack that freed Pulisic, then the long ball over the top from Nagbe. Panama left the back so open which was stunning for what is usually such a compact team. And of course, once they went behind, they were so desperate to score that it just opened them up further.

In a game where all they needed was a point to put them in position to qualify with a home win against a team with nothing to play for, their decision to attack really made no sense. For their sake, I do hope they qualify through the playoff. Lot of long-serving players there that deserve a shot on the biggest stage.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 08, 2017, 10:03:05 PM
Great showing by the USMNT.  Pulisic thrived in the attacking midfielder role and made both Altidore and Wood better.  AMF is where Pulisic needs to be so he can freelance all over the field and stay in attack mode.  My only concern is leaving Bradley as the lone CMF.  That leaves the defense a bit thin.  It'll work against teams like Panama and T&T but the better offenses that will be in Russia worry me.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on October 09, 2017, 02:43:50 PM
Overall offense and defense rankings of each remaining team in the WCQ.

USA has the top remaining offense of any team. However, it's their defense that has been struggling compared to Mexico and Costa Rica.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLkyM2PUQAA9Nhk.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 10, 2017, 06:59:48 PM
Here we go. Draw will be enough but I think the USA will play for the win. T&T has lost 6 straight, time to make it 7 and punch that ticket to Russia.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on October 10, 2017, 07:16:47 PM
Meanwhile in the Conmebol...Whole lotta stuff can happen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on October 10, 2017, 07:40:12 PM
Here we go. Draw will be enough but I think the USA will play for the win. T&T has lost 6 straight, time to make it 7 and punch that ticket to Russia.

https://youtu.be/_asNhzXq72w
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 10, 2017, 07:56:00 PM
That was, I think, the worst half of USMNT soccer I have ever seen. And that's not even considering circumstances tonight (WC spot on the line) and talent compared to previous eras of US soccer.

Note: I'm 33
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on October 10, 2017, 07:58:49 PM
I blame me.   Every time I have watched them this qualifying season, they have sucked.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 10, 2017, 08:55:32 PM
I'm not sure what to say right now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MarquetteDano on October 10, 2017, 08:59:01 PM
What a disaster.  Everything that could have gone wrong did tonight, not just including the US match.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 10, 2017, 09:01:32 PM
Wow.  A fitting end to a terrible hex.  Not only did the US give up an own goal, Mexico gave one up to Honduras.  Throw in Panama's game winner in the 88th minute and that's all she wrote.

Sad that the US misses a WC.  Even worse that it means one less opportunity with Christian Pulisic.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on October 10, 2017, 09:05:05 PM
Just pathetic
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 10, 2017, 09:07:33 PM
Completely inexcusable. Gulati must resign or be fired by morning. Anything less is a complete embarrassment, more so than losing this match. Gulati allowed Klinsmann to keep his job for two of the most difficult matches when everyone knew he'd lost the team.

You cannot lose this. Absolutely cannot lose this. We lost to a bad team that had one result in 9 previous attempts. Gulati out now. Arena out. All the old players out. I'm sick, pissed, this is pathetic. We should never not qualify from this region. Never. Absolutely pathetic. Fire everyone, execute the rest.

Except Pulisic, that is.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 10, 2017, 10:22:09 PM
Wow, just saw that one of Panama's goals was a total farce.

https://deadspin.com/u-s-a-out-of-world-cup-on-phantom-goal-1819343176 (https://deadspin.com/u-s-a-out-of-world-cup-on-phantom-goal-1819343176)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: B. McBannerson on October 10, 2017, 10:52:50 PM
Missed last two Olympics, first time in 50 years.  Will miss next year's World Cup.  Uninspired throughout tonight.

Poor all the way across. Leadership vacuum.  This isn't a this year thing, but part of the last few years. 

Go Netherlands
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on October 10, 2017, 11:04:54 PM
Missed last two Olympics, first time in 50 years.  Will miss next year's World Cup.  Uninspired throughout tonight.

Poor all the way across. Leadership vacuum.  This isn't a this year thing, but part of the last few years. 

Go Netherlands

Hate to break it to ya buddy, but the Netherlands didn't qualify either.

May I suggest Iceland? (Or of course Colombia too)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: hdog1017 on October 10, 2017, 11:27:40 PM
I don't know much about soccer, but the US shouldn't lose to Trinidad and Tobago at anything. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on October 10, 2017, 11:50:45 PM
The MLS has been great for the US soccer fan but horrible for US Soccer.  US players such as Bradley, Dempsey, etc coming home from top rate leagues to play in a 4th-5th rate league has killed our growth.   Klinnsman may have been many things good or bad but he was absolutely correct when he did not want the USMNT players coming home to play in the MLS.  Hard to play with the best in the world when ur playing at such a low level league.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on October 10, 2017, 11:55:31 PM
I'm pissed, but I'm saving the real outrage for when Sunil keeps his job and nothing changes.

The rot goes deeper than Arena. Or Jurgen. It's a failure at all levels to establish any sort of footballing philosophy or style. Time to blow it all up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: B. McBannerson on October 11, 2017, 12:39:55 AM
Hate to break it to ya buddy, but the Netherlands didn't qualify either.

May I suggest Iceland? (Or of course Colombia too)

I know, that's why I used the reference.  Netherlands was basically out over the weekend, had to win by 7 goals tonight.  They were officially eliminated 8 hours before the US was.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on October 11, 2017, 05:28:33 AM
I'm pissed, but I'm saving the real outrage for when Sunil keeps his job and nothing changes.

The rot goes deeper than Arena. Or Jurgen. It's a failure at all levels to establish any sort of footballing philosophy or style. Time to blow it all up.

The fact that players still have to pay to play in high level club levels is insane and part of the problem. The entire development program needs to be reworked. Additionally, someone needs to look at the senior team and find the heart that was at least a corner stone of the program...other than a few people, the passion just wasn't there.

Taylor Twellmen is 100% correct, if Iceland can figure this out why can't we? I mean for god sake, CONCACAF is the easiest region to qualify from and it's not close. How are we out of the World Cup in 2018 and wasting at least one cycle of Pulisics WC prime is just awful.

Lastly, we need to have courage to make big changes and be able to move on. You will not find a bigger fan of Tim Howard than me, the man is an absolute legend.....but when it's gone it's gone, we have to be able to acknowledge that and move on. Howard(and to a lesser extent Guzan) is directly responsible for this WC with some poor work in the net and bad goals surrendered.

I think I'm even more mad this morning than I was last night. That may be because Sanil still has a job.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on October 11, 2017, 06:33:38 AM
It is Derrick Wilson's fault.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on October 11, 2017, 07:24:09 AM
The fact that players still have to pay to play in high level club levels is insane and part of the problem. The entire development program needs to be reworked. Additionally, someone needs to look at the senior team and find the heart that was at least a corner stone of the program...other than a few people, the passion just wasn't there.

Taylor Twellmen is 100% correct, if Iceland can figure this out why can't we? I mean for god sake, CONCACAF is the easiest region to qualify from and it's not close. How are we out of the World Cup in 2018 and wasting at least one cycle of Pulisics WC prime is just awful.

Lastly, we need to have courage to make big changes and be able to move on. You will not find a bigger fan of Tim Howard than me, the man is an absolute legend.....but when it's gone it's gone, we have to be able to acknowledge that and move on. Howard(and to a lesser extent Guzan) is directly responsible for this WC with some poor work in the net and bad goals surrendered.

I think I'm even more mad this morning than I was last night. That may be because Sanil still has a job.

I actually think Asia is easier to qualify in, but that's beside the point.  This is such a complete embarrassment.

On GK, I don't see how Sean Johnson did not receive one qualifier call-up.  The guy has been in incredible form this season, much more so than Guzan or Howard.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: TinyTimsLittleBrother on October 11, 2017, 07:35:30 AM
The fact that players still have to pay to play in high level club levels is insane and part of the problem. The entire development program needs to be reworked. Additionally, someone needs to look at the senior team and find the heart that was at least a corner stone of the program...other than a few people, the passion just wasn't there.

Taylor Twellmen is 100% correct, if Iceland can figure this out why can't we? I mean for god sake, CONCACAF is the easiest region to qualify from and it's not close. How are we out of the World Cup in 2018 and wasting at least one cycle of Pulisics WC prime is just awful.

Lastly, we need to have courage to make big changes and be able to move on. You will not find a bigger fan of Tim Howard than me, the man is an absolute legend.....but when it's gone it's gone, we have to be able to acknowledge that and move on. Howard(and to a lesser extent Guzan) is directly responsible for this WC with some poor work in the net and bad goals surrendered.

I think I'm even more mad this morning than I was last night. That may be because Sanil still has a job.


Iceland isn't a great example. They are so small that it actually is easier to coordinate and build a development program there than in a place as large and decentralized as the United States. Don't get me wrong, Iceland's accomplishment is incredible.  But a better example would be Germany as Twellman pointed out.

Until MLS, US Soccer and the development programs get on the same page, this program isn't going to grow.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jsglow on October 11, 2017, 07:38:28 AM
I don't follow soccer much but I have to believe this will result in a complete housekeeping of US soccer.  Let's hope so at least.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: TinyTimsLittleBrother on October 11, 2017, 07:42:28 AM
I don't follow soccer much but I have to believe this will result in a complete housekeeping of US soccer.  Let's hope so at least.

I would like to think so, but I think the basic problem is that everyone involved in soccer in this country has different short-term goals and objectives.  They have not been willing to sacrifice for the long-term before.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 11, 2017, 10:09:28 AM
I actually think Asia is easier to qualify in, but that's beside the point.  This is such a complete embarrassment.

On GK, I don't see how Sean Johnson did not receive one qualifier call-up.  The guy has been in incredible form this season, much more so than Guzan or Howard.

Iceland qualifies in Europe and finished on top of a group with Croatia, Ukraine, and Turkey, but otherwise, sure.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on October 11, 2017, 10:29:13 AM
Iceland qualifies in Europe and finished on top of a group with Croatia, Ukraine, and Turkey, but otherwise, sure.

I'm not following.  What does Iceland have to do with my previous post?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on October 11, 2017, 11:50:28 AM
Iceland qualifies in Europe and finished on top of a group with Croatia, Ukraine, and Turkey, but otherwise, sure.

Croatia is a realllly good soccer team. Modric, Rakitic, Perisic, and Mandzukic are all very good players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 11, 2017, 12:53:43 PM
I'm not following.  What does Iceland have to do with my previous post?

I misread, I thought for some reason you thought Iceland qualified through Asia, and I was like wtf...

Croatia is a realllly good soccer team. Modric, Rakitic, Perisic, and Mandzukic are all very good players.

100% agree.  I was bringing them up to highlight Iceland didn't have a cake group.  All 3 teams I listed are decent to very good teams.  Croatia, Ukraine has some studs, and Turkey has some talent and road games there are brutal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on October 11, 2017, 01:49:27 PM
I misread, I thought for some reason you thought Iceland qualified through Asia, and I was like wtf...

Ok, gotcha, haha.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 11, 2017, 10:23:39 PM
A few things lean out as reasons for this...

It's hard to be optimistic right now. 2022 is so far away. I suppose the upside is that Pulisic will then be fully in his prime as a 24-year-old. Josh Sargent will likely have started to come of age. But it's so long off. What a complete and utter disaster. This should have never, ever happened. Total disgrace from the top down. It's time to start developing skill, running
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on October 12, 2017, 12:00:30 AM
Wait ... the U.S.A. has a men's soccer team?

But seriously, folks ...

I'm old enough to remember the genuine excitement when the Cosmos got Pele, Chinaglia and Beckenbauer in the mid-1970s. I even still have Pele's autograph somewhere in one of my boxes of collectables. The popular thought process was: "More and more American kids are playing soccer; it's inevitable that soccer will become the most popular spectator sport in the U.S. when all of the kids grow up and want to watch the game they played as kids."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 12, 2017, 07:18:34 AM
So now who is everyone rooting for? I have my two Irish teams. Who do you all have?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on October 12, 2017, 08:01:52 AM
A few things lean out as reasons for this...

  • MLS: While MLS has given us a much better league, it has done just as much to provide opportunity to other CONCACAF players. Many of the players involved in our downfall were also products of our own league. However the real MLS problem is that for a long time, we didn't see players coming through the system and matriculating successfully to the national team. Instead, MLS brought back our best European players (Dempsey, Bradley, Altidore, Howard) before their best days were done and had them playing at a lower level than they were capable of. The complacency allowed by competing at that level hurt their ability to turn it up to the next level. Instead of looking across the pitch at players from Panama, Costa Rica, Honduras, and other nations that couldn't get a kick in Europe but did well in MLS, they see peers and not players they are at a higher level than.
  • Youth Failures: We missed out on two consecutive Olympics. The talent level just isn't there in the age groups that would've played in those Olympics. Look at the roster, then look for players aged 23-28. There are only 4 players in that age range, which is essentially the age a player is in their prime. Yedlin never played for the U23s, Jozy didn't in the 2012 run-up. Wood and Villafana only got 3 combined games for the 2012 U23s. That 2011-12 U23 team is a void. The 2015-16 team is doing a bit better, with Acosta, Arriola, and Morris in the mix, but it's largely another empty talent pool. I don't count Nagbe, who was never eligible as a USA U23. The upside is both the U-20 and U-17 teams this year have been impressive in their respective World Cups.
  • Management Issues: Jurgen, Bruce, and Sunil all shoulder some blame. Had Jurgen got one point out of his two matches, we're in Russia. Sunil held on too long to a coach that lost his team shortly after WC 2014. The writing was screaming on the wall after Klinsmann's Gold Cup, but Gulati wouldn't listen. Instead, Klinsmann lost the first two crucial qualifiers against our two toughest rivals. It put Bruce behind the 8-ball, though he still should've qualified. Zero away wins when we played the likes of Panama, Honduras, and T&T? That's embarrassing.
  • Age: Not only is the 24-28 age range bereft of talent, but we are very, very old. 14 of our 23 players on the roster last night were 30+. Now that we're out of 2018, how much of this current roster will still be involved when we next play a meaningful match at the 2019 Gold Cup? What about for 2022? Not only that, how is youth not being served? Guzan is our youngest keeper at age 33. Up front, both Dempsey and Wondo are still there at age 34.
  • Disparate Culture: There's so much pay-to-play at the youth levels. As you go up, many of these kids are playing for college scholarships, which is a completely disorganized youth system compared to other countries. We're starting to develop better academies, but in a country so spread out, we need more of a concentrated effort from the top down. Each state should have programs to train and identify talent. Grassroots teams that can identify and funnel their best and brightest. This is the one place where Klinsmann might have really helped, sadly, he stuck around too long as manager, which led to his firing and prevented him from fully installing a German type system.
It's hard to be optimistic right now. 2022 is so far away. I suppose the upside is that Pulisic will then be fully in his prime as a 24-year-old. Josh Sargent will likely have started to come of age. But it's so long off. What a complete and utter disaster. This should have never, ever happened. Total disgrace from the top down. It's time to start developing skill, running

One of my biggest concerns is that there will be no "meaningful" US men's national team matches until the summer of 2019 and the stuff the whole country pays attention to (World Cup) is 5 years away. I fear that big a gap with soccer out of the mainstream eye will put a hole in the youth ranks similar to what the 2012-2016 that's causing all of these issues. Ten years from now do we have another big gap?

I can't stress enough how detrimental the pay for play model is for the US right now. Granted it was even worse in the 90s when I was coming up in ODP and club teams in Chicago, but I had very talented teammates on my club team that had to switch to lesser clubs because they couldn't afford the travel and/or club fees, etc. The problem isn't that talent isn't going to soccer in the US, it's that we aren't inviting and retaining the talent into soccer in the US. Until US soccer can figure out a way to stand up a full academy system in every state that reduces the barriers to access, we are going to continue to be a second tier world power.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on October 12, 2017, 08:02:50 AM
So now who is everyone rooting for? I have my two Irish teams. Who do you all have?

Have to go with my heritage, Die Mannschaft
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: TinyTimsLittleBrother on October 12, 2017, 08:51:41 AM
I'd like to see a first time winner.  So the best chance is probably Belgium.  If the bracket falls right, Poland or Portugal have a puncher's chance.

But I think the chances for each of them are pretty small.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 12, 2017, 09:50:15 AM
So now who is everyone rooting for? I have my two Irish teams. Who do you all have?

Poland (heritage) and the other CONCACAF teams.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 12, 2017, 10:05:44 AM
the other CONCACAF teams.

I can't bring myself to do that.  Costa Rica maybe.  But I'd rather root for nobody than El Tri.  And Honduras plays the dirtiest soccer in the region, and after the bush league hacking at Pulisic and others in the second half of the match on Friday, Panama can shove off as well.

My second team after the US has always been the Netherlands and id really enjoyed Chile last cup, so 2018 is going to extra suck.  Ive really enjoyed watching Iceland play for the last 4-5 years, they have a fearless attacking style and never played the cautious, hope for a counter style of some of the tiny countries.  However, now that the US is out, you're already seeing the sentiment and social media trends towards Iceland, so thats going to be a crowded boat.

I'll likely support Belgium as they are a great team to watch and our partner company and good friends are in Antwerp.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 12, 2017, 10:14:39 AM
I can't bring myself to do that.  Costa Rica maybe.  But I'd rather root for nobody than El Tri.  And Honduras plays the dirtiest soccer in the region, and after the bush league hacking at Pulisic and others in the second half of the match on Friday, Panama can shove off as well.

I get it, but the better CONCACAF does, the better rated the teams we will regularly play will be. Helps us all around. Get a few deep runs, say 3 teams in the last 16 and 2 in the quarters and it gives us a better claim for more bids in the future, especially when they restructure the bids in 2026. Shouldn't matter to us that year as we'll probably be hosting, but still will benefit the Confederation in the long run.

Besides, we've seen plenty of dirty play from African (cough, GHANA, cough), South American, and other teams in recent years, no reason to think that CONCACAF teams are that much worse, we just dislike them more because we see them more frequently.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 12, 2017, 11:45:27 AM
Baby Nats just as disappointing today. Went behind in the 3rd minute against Colombia, equalized before the half, but had absolutely zero offensive effort in the second half. Hackworth waited far too long to make subs and by the time they started pushing forward, they were 3-1 down and relegated to the drawing of lots to determine if they will go through in 2nd or 3rd place after Ghana blasted India 4-0.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on October 12, 2017, 11:57:00 AM
Poland (heritage) and the other CONCACAF teams.

Poland too.  Because of my in-laws.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 12, 2017, 12:49:47 PM
ZiggysFryKid is a u12 keeper.  2030 is a lock.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on October 24, 2017, 03:58:09 PM
Going down to Chicago for my first MLS game tomorrow night. Any recommendations for the area, parking, etc?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on October 24, 2017, 04:42:21 PM
Going down to Chicago for my first MLS game tomorrow night. Any recommendations for the area, parking, etc?

Don't go to a MLS game.

All kidding aside, (sort of) Bridgeview is a loooooong way from Chicago. Nothing much to do out there to be honest.

Sometimes the Globe Pub or AJ Hudsons run shuttles down there I think it's like $15? It's worth it though, saves you the hassle of driving and you can drink on the bus or in the parking lot before the match.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 25, 2017, 01:05:16 AM
Going down to Chicago for my first MLS game tomorrow night. Any recommendations for the area, parking, etc?

Nice little stadium.   The parking lot afterwards is a nightmare to get out of.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on October 25, 2017, 09:43:26 AM
Nice little stadium.   The parking lot afterwards is a nightmare to get out of.

Just what I like to hear driving back to Milwaukee on a work night.

Thanks to both of you.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 26, 2017, 10:13:31 AM
Dave Sarachan named Arena's interim replacement. No surprise they stayed in house, also no real surprise all the big names turned it down since we'll have a new permanent appointee come March or so after the USSF Presidential Election. Have to imagine Tab Ramos will be one of the first names in line for it. Be curious to see who else gets a mention.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 26, 2017, 03:49:14 PM
Don't go to a MLS game.

All kidding aside, (sort of) Bridgeview is a loooooong way from Chicago. Nothing much to do out there to be honest.

Sometimes the Globe Pub or AJ Hudsons run shuttles down there I think it's like $15? It's worth it though, saves you the hassle of driving and you can drink on the bus or in the parking lot before the match.

It’s a mile and a half from the border at 63rd and Harlem. Remember the city isn’t just the north side.

That being said I agree with his post take the shuttle, did that for a few rugby matches there and it’s so much nicer
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on October 26, 2017, 05:25:43 PM
It’s a mile and a half from the border at 63rd and Harlem. Remember the city isn’t just the north side.

That being said I agree with his post take the shuttle, did that for a few rugby matches there and it’s so much nicer

Parking before the game was awful. After the game we got out quickly. Enjoyed the stadium, very intimate feel. The game was not close but at least NY provided some entertainment.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 01, 2017, 04:17:31 PM
Uhhh, okay Spurs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on November 13, 2017, 03:55:42 PM
Italy out of the World Cup for the first time since 1958.  They lost their Euro playoff to Sweden. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 13, 2017, 04:20:24 PM
Italy out of the World Cup for the first time since 1958.  They lost their Euro playoff to Sweden.

Absolutely shameful display and inept management.  Ventura was clueless in both tactics and man management.  3 goals in the last 6 matches, including a 1-1 draw against Macedonia.  Listless offense yet starting a pivotal match with players like Insigne, Belotti, and El Sharraway on the bench.  Not to mention a frazzled midfield and not trying to use a De Rossi to stabilize things.  Congrats to Sweden though, huge achievement in the post Zlatan era.  Chance we could see The Zlatan make a surprise return in Russia?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 13, 2017, 06:25:01 PM
Guess we can play Italy in a friendly in June then?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Chili on November 13, 2017, 07:01:15 PM
Guess we can play Italy in a friendly in June then?

The WIT played in NYC?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 13, 2017, 07:22:05 PM
Guess we can play Italy in a friendly in June then?

Vegas 8 huh?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: B. McBannerson on November 13, 2017, 07:29:15 PM
Eric Wynalda for US Soccer Federation Presidency!!  Go Eric!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 14, 2017, 03:06:49 PM
Stupid Denmark
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 14, 2017, 03:24:53 PM
Christian Eriksen is a damn good footballer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 14, 2017, 05:18:53 PM
Christian Eriksen is a damn good footballer.

The media won’t spread it, but he’s the best player in a Spurs kit.

Eric Wynalda for US Soccer Federation Presidency!!  Go Eric!

As cantankerous and arrogant as he’s been as a commentator the last decade or so? Pass.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on November 15, 2017, 03:24:08 PM
Oh please don't do this.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/11/14/us-soccer-sum-italy-netherlands-ghana-chile
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 15, 2017, 06:59:01 PM
Oh please don't do this.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/11/14/us-soccer-sum-italy-netherlands-ghana-chile

That's pretty dumb. Thats like saying the World Cup isn't good enough without us.

Although it is pretty unprecedented that there will be a World Cup without the US, Netherlands, Chile, Italy, Ghana and Cote d'Ivoire all in the same year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on January 10, 2018, 11:11:19 PM
Here are some EPL stats. Happy to discuss if anyone's interested.

http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/2018/01/11/epl-ranks-stats-1-10-18/

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 10, 2018, 11:37:59 PM
Here are some EPL stats. Happy to discuss if anyone's interested.

http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/2018/01/11/epl-ranks-stats-1-10-18/

Just curious, what would advance stats for individual players look like? Not asking you to do any, I'm just wondering what kind of measures you could put into a soccer match.

For example, obviously Kante doesnt score or assist hardly ever but would he be more valuable than a Raheem Sterling or a Salah.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on January 11, 2018, 09:06:24 AM
Just curious, what would advance stats for individual players look like? Not asking you to do any, I'm just wondering what kind of measures you could put into a soccer match.

For example, obviously Kante doesnt score or assist hardly ever but would he be more valuable than a Raheem Sterling or a Salah.

whoscored.com has a lot of different stats that are tracked for all players.  I find stats in soccer helpful, but don't tell the whole story, so take with a grain of salt, but whoscored is a pretty good resource for player performance.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 11, 2018, 09:57:35 AM
Just curious, what would advance stats for individual players look like? Not asking you to do any, I'm just wondering what kind of measures you could put into a soccer match.

For example, obviously Kante doesnt score or assist hardly ever but would he be more valuable than a Raheem Sterling or a Salah.

#headasnomatta
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on January 11, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
Just curious, what would advance stats for individual players look like? Not asking you to do any, I'm just wondering what kind of measures you could put into a soccer match.

For example, obviously Kante doesnt score or assist hardly ever but would he be more valuable than a Raheem Sterling or a Salah.

This is probably the best way of looking at individual players.

(https://i0.wp.com/statsbomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Messi_2013_vs-JoeAverage1.png)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on January 11, 2018, 10:11:49 AM
whoscored.com has a lot of different stats that are tracked for all players.  I find stats in soccer helpful, but don't tell the whole story, so take with a grain of salt, but whoscored is a pretty good resource for player performance.

The way that I think about soccer stats is that each stat on its own is deeply flawed. However, stats have more value when combined together. They have more value when combined together and compared against opponents or the average. They have even more value when looking at trendlines.

I personally focus on team stats right now because that's the data that is easily available to me. Also, when I started looking into this, my objective was to find data that was as close as possible to what was familiar (Dean Oliver / Kenpom / Four Factors). That data doesn't exist, so I started tracking it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on January 12, 2018, 10:27:33 AM
I follow Ted on twitter. He does distribute these player maps from time to time, and it's pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 10, 2018, 12:31:45 PM
After watching Fulham play the other day why does Tim Ream not get more caps for the US?

He's so solid for Fulham who are probably the best team in the championship.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on May 26, 2018, 06:07:44 PM
That was some bullsh1t from Ramos.

Also from Karius.

What a strange game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on May 27, 2018, 10:48:06 PM
That was some bullsh1t from Ramos.

Also from Karius.

What a strange game.
Agreed. I have been a Real Fan since I lived in Madrid, for a year, in '77-78.

Thinking hard , I am sure I never saw the Benzema "interception/goal" ever before in a Champ league game...cool but weird.

The Bale Bicycle kick for RM goal two was as pretty as Ronaldo's of a few weeks ago.

To me Club soccer is the best quality play in the world (yes significantly better than World Cup) with Premier boasting best clubs, top to bottom ... but the top 3-4 of La Liga is always also right there. Sorry ....but MLS is a second division league, at best.

Champions league gathers the best clubs. That my RM has dominated this series lately is cake icing. !Yo Soy de Real Para Siempre!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 29, 2018, 09:07:05 AM
Karius should be no where near a champions league final, although Mignolet is no better.  It'll be interesting to see what Liverpool do in this transfer window.  Both Alisson and Donnarumma will cost upwards of 80 mil, which I don't think they'll pay.  The Coutinho money is pretty much all gone with Fabinho signing.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Buffon end up there.  He wants to keep playing, but will only go somewhere where he can play in the Champions league.  There's not too many Champions League clubs where he can walk in the door and be the immediate number 1.  If he doesn't go to PSG, don't be surprised if he's at Anfield next year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 29, 2018, 09:52:50 AM
Just watched the USA friendly with Bolivia. While it was probably a B/C side for Bolivia, it was fun to watch the future and fun to watch us look good. A few players stood out:

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 29, 2018, 10:03:12 AM
Just watched the USA friendly with Bolivia. While it was probably a B/C side for Bolivia, it was fun to watch the future and fun to watch us look good. A few players stood out:

  • Josh Sargent: He was active, strong, unselfish, and his goal was excellent. What made it impressive was not just the individual talent to take it out of the air, control, and beat the goalie 1v1, but it was also against Bolivia's first choice keeper. If that's a full international, there's no reason it plays out any different. He continues to impress at every level.
  • Tim Weah: Quick, active, full of energy. I love having wingers with a nose for goal. I feel like we haven't had that type of play since Dempsey and Donovan played the 7/8 for us earlier in their careers.
  • Antonee Robinson: I'm hesitant to get excited about LB debuts because so many promising starts have gone awry, but he was excellent. His pace and delivery up the left was so good, and not just on his assist to Weah. Defensively, while he was beat a few times, he showed both willingness to defend and the pace to make up for his mistakes. Him and Yedlin at the fullbacks could grow into quite the tandem.
  • Keaton Parks: What stood out was how he didn't look 6'4" when he was on the run. He had good instincts to know when to drive up the middle, drift outside for a through ball, or get back. But doing it, he didn't have the awkwardness that many young lanky players have. He looked like he belonged and was natural in his body.
  • Weston McKinney: Neither of the central defenders had much to do because McKinney did well marshaling the midfield and breaking up plays. He didn't do a ton going forward, but had some bright moments and made the workload light on the guys behind him.

I thought McKinney was the best player out there last night.  Holding mid is the most important/least appreciated position in the sport IMO. 

Weah and Sargent ooze potential, but will need to get 1st team experience at club level.  Getting the actual game time is the difference between developing into a Pulisic or a Green (Green is only 22 so he can still get there, but he needs to get back into the top tier Bundesliga). 

Defense looked good, but I'm holding judgement until I see some of them go up against Ireland and France.

Overall, I was impressed by the kids, but most of them are too young to anoint the next savior.  World Cup in Qatar is only 1637 days away.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 05, 2018, 09:13:46 AM
https://www.theringer.com/2018/6/5/17428184/2018-world-cup-us-soccer-inside-story-jurgen-klinsmann-sunil-gulati-bruce-arena (https://www.theringer.com/2018/6/5/17428184/2018-world-cup-us-soccer-inside-story-jurgen-klinsmann-sunil-gulati-bruce-arena)

Great article breaking down what's gone wrong with US soccer in the last 7 years.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 05, 2018, 10:20:06 AM
https://www.theringer.com/2018/6/5/17428184/2018-world-cup-us-soccer-inside-story-jurgen-klinsmann-sunil-gulati-bruce-arena (https://www.theringer.com/2018/6/5/17428184/2018-world-cup-us-soccer-inside-story-jurgen-klinsmann-sunil-gulati-bruce-arena)

Great article breaking down what's gone wrong with US soccer in the last 7 years.

Very good timeline of the events that happened.  I would have fired Klinsmann after the CONCACAF Cup.  Bottom line is that not enough quality players moved up the ranks between the 2014 World Cup and 2018 qualifying.  That's why going extreme youth for these friendlies is not only the right choice, but the only one.  Don't expect the GM or Head Coach vacancies to be filled until of the World Cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 05, 2018, 02:45:59 PM
I don't care if veterans feelings were hurt cause klins called in younger guys. Work hard, be better and you'll make the team.

MLS is absolutely a lesser league. Why are they still trying to give massive contracts and control to corpses like Drogba and Torres? It's stuff like that that undermines their stated place in the world.

Other than those 2 topics, story was solid
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 05, 2018, 03:35:53 PM
Drogba hasn't played in the MLS in over a year, and the Torres to MLS talk is nonsense.  You take those players because they can help your image.  Rooney to DC would be a good signing because it'll sell the jerseys and he's still got a few years left in him.  I think all the Americans coming back to the MLS was a mistake unless you can't break into the first team abroad (see Zack Steffen). 

MLS is a lesser league but an all MLS team is still good enough to make the World Cup.  The majority of the Costa Rico, Mexico and Panama rosters are MLS or Liga MX players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 05, 2018, 04:37:36 PM
The other thing is that some of the European leagues, especially EPL really grind players. I think the need to play in the top leagues is nice in concept but the benefit in my opinion is largely negated by the impact of the body and mental health of some of these players. If the players can go get big dollars in the foreign leagues (see Christian Pulisic) by all means, but if not MLS is just fine for developing players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 05, 2018, 04:47:23 PM
Drogba hasn't played in the MLS in over a year, and the Torres to MLS talk is nonsense.  You take those players because they can help your image.  Rooney to DC would be a good signing because it'll sell the jerseys and he's still got a few years left in him.  I think all the Americans coming back to the MLS was a mistake unless you can't break into the first team abroad (see Zack Steffen). 

MLS is a lesser league but an all MLS team is still good enough to make the World Cup.  The majority of the Costa Rico, Mexico and Panama rosters are MLS or Liga MX players.

Okay. If you say so. Throw out Drogba and Torres.

You've still got schweinsteiger, zlatan, Rooney.

Again, retirement paradise. Instead of focusing on development of the whole.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 05, 2018, 05:39:39 PM
Okay. If you say so. Throw out Drogba and Torres.

You've still got schweinsteiger, zlatan, Rooney.

Again, retirement paradise. Instead of focusing on development of the whole.


It can be both.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 05, 2018, 06:07:13 PM
https://www.theringer.com/2018/6/5/17428184/2018-world-cup-us-soccer-inside-story-jurgen-klinsmann-sunil-gulati-bruce-arena (https://www.theringer.com/2018/6/5/17428184/2018-world-cup-us-soccer-inside-story-jurgen-klinsmann-sunil-gulati-bruce-arena)

Great article breaking down what's gone wrong with US soccer in the last 7 years.

Excellent read. Dense but thorough. My only hope, and Sarachan's method of blooding the kids should help, is that we basically raze it all and start from the ground up.

I don't care if veterans feelings were hurt cause klins called in younger guys. Work hard, be better and you'll make the team.

MLS is absolutely a lesser league. Why are they still trying to give massive contracts and control to corpses like Drogba and Torres? It's stuff like that that undermines their stated place in the world.

Other than those 2 topics, story was solid

Sorry, but there's no way Julian Green earned his spot over Landon Donovan. Jurgen brought in new players he was comfortable with. Some, like John Brooks and Fabian Johnson, were solid. Some, like Timmy Chandler and Julian Green, simply weren't up to the task. Green might still get there, but he did not deserve the nod in 2014.

MLS is a second tier league, but sending 19 players to the 2018 World Cup when the domestic nation isn't going is solid. One of the drawbacks to growing a league is balancing growing talent with selling tickets. Names draw fans. MLS has been fantastic for the improvement of international players. The real problem with MLS is that it's been as good or better for other CONCACAF nations' players. Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, T&T, and others have reaped the benefits while our own NT is in the limbo of indecision between domestic and overseas leagues.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 05, 2018, 06:13:20 PM
MLS is probably a top-10 or so league in the world. Somewhere in the 8-12 range depending on year. My issue with it is that it hasn't been dedicated to developing the USMNT. When you look at Germany, there was a concerted effort to develop players for Die Mannschaft. Our own league has been focused on its own marketing, which led to a focus on foreign stars (most can still play, but don't help our NT) or bringing back big name Americans that have the ability to play elsewhere.

I would rather see a youth focused league that makes its money not at the gate, but in developing and selling its domestic players overseas. But as long as MLS is a business first, the development of USMNT players will always be a tertiary goal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 05, 2018, 06:34:21 PM
Excellent read. Dense but thorough. My only hope, and Sarachan's method of blooding the kids should help, is that we basically raze it all and start from the ground up.

Sorry, but there's no way Julian Green earned his spot over Landon Donovan. Jurgen brought in new players he was comfortable with. Some, like John Brooks and Fabian Johnson, were solid. Some, like Timmy Chandler and Julian Green, simply weren't up to the task. Green might still get there, but he did not deserve the nod in 2014.

MLS is a second tier league, but sending 19 players to the 2018 World Cup when the domestic nation isn't going is solid. One of the drawbacks to growing a league is balancing growing talent with selling tickets. Names draw fans. MLS has been fantastic for the improvement of international players. The real problem with MLS is that it's been as good or better for other CONCACAF nations' players. Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, T&T, and others have reaped the benefits while our own NT is in the limbo of indecision between domestic and overseas leagues.

That's not exactly what I was referring to. I won't disagree that Green should not have been taken over Donovan. The point in the article said the established players saw the new guys as a threat to their spot on the team. I think that's totally valid and not a criticism of a coach. The young and new should absolutely push the older for roster spots. On any team. In any sport.

My criticism of MLS is both paying too much for over the hill international players. And, as you said, fighting with the national team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 06, 2018, 08:40:18 AM
Okay. If you say so. Throw out Drogba and Torres.

You've still got schweinsteiger, zlatan, Rooney.

Again, retirement paradise. Instead of focusing on development of the whole.

Don't get me wrong, I think dumping that money into the clubs respective academies is a better move long term, but you have to sell jersey's and tickets.  You don't sign a 36 year old coming off a torn ACL unless its a great PR move (which Zlatan is). 

MLS is probably a top-10 or so league in the world. Somewhere in the 8-12 range depending on year. My issue with it is that it hasn't been dedicated to developing the USMNT. When you look at Germany, there was a concerted effort to develop players for Die Mannschaft. Our own league has been focused on its own marketing, which led to a focus on foreign stars (most can still play, but don't help our NT) or bringing back big name Americans that have the ability to play elsewhere.

I would rather see a youth focused league that makes its money not at the gate, but in developing and selling its domestic players overseas. But as long as MLS is a business first, the development of USMNT players will always be a tertiary goal.

This is pretty spot on.  The reason that I don't have a problem with bringing in more aging European vets is because of the rapid expansion that the MLS is currently going through.  It's almost growing too fast where with all the new roster spots being opened up the talent can't keep up.  This is why I had no problem with NYCFC bringing in Pirlo and Villa, or Orlando bring in Kaka.  Once the expansion stops, I'm hoping they stop at 26, I think the amount of ageing superstars will decrease. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 06, 2018, 10:15:53 AM
Regarding the relative strength of MLS, the European leagues are quite top heavy.  You have four very elite leagues (Spain, Germany, England, Italy), a couple leagues that have a couple decent teams at the top, but a bunch of crap below (France, Portugal, Russia), and a bunch of leagues that just really aren't that good.

Put it another way, there are more players from MLS playing in the World Cup this year than play in Belgium's national league - and Belgium made the WC and the US didn't.  I think only one player on Belgium's national team plays in Belgium.  And that league is rated the 9th best in Europe.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 06, 2018, 10:25:09 AM
Julian Green scored on his debut in the World Cup. That alone validates his selection to the 2014 team. He was brought to be a spark and he produced a spark. Job fulfilled.

Donovan going to Brasil would have changed absolutely nothing of what transpired down there.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 06, 2018, 10:33:42 AM
Regarding the relative strength of MLS, the European leagues are quite top heavy.  You have four very elite leagues (Spain, Germany, England, Italy), a couple leagues that have a couple decent teams at the top, but a bunch of crap below (France, Portugal, Russia), and a bunch of leagues that just really aren't that good.

Put it another way, there are more players from MLS playing in the World Cup this year than play in Belgium's national league - and Belgium made the WC and the US didn't.  I think only one player on Belgium's national team plays in Belgium.  And that league is rated the 9th best in Europe.

Serie A hasn't been elite for most of the last decade. England is elite in terms of marketing but the quality of play is mediocre across the board. And to call Ligue Une a crap league is to not understand the level of talent the league has provided to the countries that you consider elite.

Also, Belgium is an export country. Always has been. It's the middle man for African players to gain entry into Europe and then they move on to other countries. Some of the clubs are direct feeders into clubs in England and France.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 06, 2018, 10:35:27 AM
Julian Green scored on his debut in the World Cup. That alone validates his selection to the 2014 team. He was brought to be a spark and he produced a spark. Job fulfilled.

Donovan going to Brasil would have changed absolutely nothing of what transpired down there.

Cause Donovan also misses Wando's absolute sitter? Please
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jutaw22mu on June 06, 2018, 10:37:32 AM
Donovan had no place on that team, and I agree, his presence would not have changed anything for the better.  Why bring a guy to be the leader when his heart has never really been in it? 

Still can't believe we are two weeks away from a World Cup without the US.  So disappointing.  But then again, Italy, Netherlands and Chile all must be feeling the same way.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 06, 2018, 10:42:21 AM
Serie A hasn't been elite for most of the last decade. England is elite in terms of marketing but the quality of play is mediocre across the board. And to call Ligue Une a crap league is to not understand the level of talent the league has provided to the countries that you consider elite.

Also, Belgium is an export country. Always has been. It's the middle man for African players to gain entry into Europe and then they move on to other countries. Some of the clubs are direct feeders into clubs in England and France.

Juve has made 2 champions league finals in the last 5 years.  Agree that Serie A has been below the other top four, but it's still the 4th best league in the world.  Throw in that both Milan clubs recently had big money takeovers and they're both on the rise. 

You make a great point about the so called "lesser leagues".  Stade Rennes (finished 5th in League 1) produced Ousmane Dembele who sold for 105 mil last summer. Genk (finished 4th in the Belgium first division) produced Kevin De Bruyne, who IMO should have won player of the year in the prem this year.  Who has been the highest selling American in Europe over the last 5 years? Yedlin at 5 mil?  Pulisic could sell for 50+ mil, but he needs to stay at Dortmund and continue to develop.

Also there is no way that England is "mediocre" across the board.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 06, 2018, 10:42:27 AM
Still can't believe we are two weeks away from a World Cup without the US.  So disappointing.  But then again, Italy, Netherlands and Chile all must be feeling the same way.

Not to mention Fox.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 06, 2018, 10:44:04 AM
Cause Donovan also misses Wando's absolute sitter? Please

Why do you assume Donovan is on the field?

At that point he was a part time player still working off the rust of his sabbatical to refocus his life and organize his priorities. If he couldn't hack it in the run up to the Cup, why would he be tasked with hacking it in a Round of 16 match?

Also, when he did get playing time in 2013/2014 Donovan was playing deeper then earlier in career. Why are you so convinced Donovan would be the furthest American forward? Why would Klinsmann have confidence in Donovan leading the line late in a knockout match when he didn't have confidence in Donavan showing commitment to the program?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 06, 2018, 10:45:11 AM
Donovan had no place on that team, and I agree, his presence would not have changed anything for the better.  Why bring a guy to be the leader when his heart has never really been in it?

Still can't believe we are two weeks away from a World Cup without the US.  So disappointing.  But then again, Italy, Netherlands and Chile all must be feeling the same way.

What evidence do you have to support this claim?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 06, 2018, 11:00:14 AM
Why do you assume Donovan is on the field?

At that point he was a part time player still working off the rust of his sabbatical to refocus his life and organize his priorities. If he couldn't hack it in the run up to the Cup, why would he be tasked with hacking it in a Round of 16 match?

Also, when he did get playing time in 2013/2014 Donovan was playing deeper then earlier in career. Why are you so convinced Donovan would be the furthest American forward? Why would Klinsmann have confidence in Donovan leading the line late in a knockout match when he didn't have confidence in Donavan showing commitment to the program?

The thing is, there was room for both on the squad.  Donovan should not have been starting, but when Jozy goes down against Ghana, I would much rather have one of the most experienced Americans of all time coming in off the bench than a 23 year old Aaron Johannsson.  When you lose a player after 20 minutes your gameplan changes, Donovan's experience would have helped.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 06, 2018, 11:04:49 AM
Juve has made 2 champions league finals in the last 5 years.  Agree that Serie A has been below the other top four, but it's still the 4th best league in the world.  Throw in that both Milan clubs recently had big money takeovers and they're both on the rise. 

Also there is no way that England is "mediocre" across the board.

Juventus is an elite club in an average league. Winning seven in a row validates that. Inter is looking to sell Icardi this summer, which is odd for a club on the rise. As for Milan, they are on the cusp of being tossed from UEFA competition for financial wrongdoing. Serie A was an elite league in the 1990s. Far cry from it now.

The EPL is not a great product. Clubs from 9-20 play an astonishingly poor brand of football for 33 of their 38 rounds. Look at the "elite" clubs in England......Man United park the bus and hope to nick one late; Liverpool can score four in 30 minutes and then give up five in the next 30 minutes; Chelsea had months of terrible play one year after winning the title; Arsenal has been fatally flawed for the past 10 years and finished in the top four nearly every season; and Tottenham is a club who've been irrelevant for 40 years but now they finish fourth and people think they're "elite". Citeh is elite.

Americans love the EPL because it's a simple follow thanks to the language and the marketing and the MLS crossover retirement agreement we seem to have brokered. If you watch the game from Spain or Germany the level of play throughout the league is well ahead of England.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 06, 2018, 11:11:58 AM
The thing is, there was room for both on the squad.  Donovan should not have been starting, but when Jozy goes down against Ghana, I would much rather have one of the most experienced Americans of all time coming in off the bench than a 23 year old Aaron Johannsson.  When you lose a player after 20 minutes your gameplan changes, Donovan's experience would have helped.

If there's room for both, who do you remove to include Donovan?

I don't understand your point about Donovan and the Ghana match. The United States won against Ghana so clearly they didn't miss a thing not having Donovan as an option off the bench.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 06, 2018, 11:26:42 AM
Juventus is an elite club in an average league. Winning seven in a row validates that. Inter is looking to sell Icardi this summer, which is odd for a club on the rise. As for Milan, they are on the cusp of being tossed from UEFA competition for financial wrongdoing. Serie A was an elite league in the 1990s. Far cry from it now.

The EPL is not a great product. Clubs from 9-20 play an astonishingly poor brand of football for 33 of their 38 rounds. Look at the "elite" clubs in England......Man United park the bus and hope to nick one late; Liverpool can score four in 30 minutes and then give up five in the next 30 minutes; Chelsea had months of terrible play one year after winning the title; Arsenal has been fatally flawed for the past 10 years and finished in the top four nearly every season; and Tottenham is a club who've been irrelevant for 40 years but now they finish fourth and people think they're "elite". Citeh is elite.

Americans love the EPL because it's a simple follow thanks to the language and the marketing and the MLS crossover retirement agreement we seem to have brokered. If you watch the game from Spain or Germany the level of play throughout the league is well ahead of England.

Strange to omit Napoli when discussing Serie a, because they were arguably better than Juve, and could keep their core midfield of Mertens, Hamsik, Insigne, and Milik together. If PSG haven't been removed from uefa than AC Milan has nothing to worry about.  Throw in that Roma made the Champions League semi's and Lazio finished 5th and are likely to have 100+mil to spend from the sale of Savic, they're on the upswing too.  Serie A is most definitely on the rise.

The EPL is arguably the best league in the world. Agree that Arsenal has been a trainwreck for the last couple of years, but now that Wenger is gone they should improve.  Chelsea is always going to be up and down under Abromivich, its been that way for over a decade now, I fully expect them to compete for the title next year.  Spurs are the example of how to win without a budget, just look at what they turned the Bale money into.  Erikson, Dier, Kane, and Alli.  That is a brilliant turnaround.  Jose is always going to play defensive, its the same style he played when he was manager of Real Madrid.  Liverpool just need a keeper now that they have Van Dijk, Klopp is one of the best in the world, once again his style at Liverpool is the same as it was at Dortmund. 

The lower tier EPL teams also play good if not especially sexy too.  You're gonna get more flash in La Liga, but a club like Burnley, Leicester, and Bournmouth all play extremely different styles and they all work.  The only games that were bad to watch were when West Brom would conced 80% possession just to get a 0-0 draw, but they're down now so it shouldn't be a problem for at least a year.

As for the EPL MLS crossover, I'm not sure where you think Kaka, Villa, or Pirlo came from.  Giovinco also came to the MLS when he was 28 and still in his prime.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 06, 2018, 11:32:42 AM
If there's room for both, who do you remove to include Donovan?

I don't understand your point about Donovan and the Ghana match. The United States won against Ghana so clearly they didn't miss a thing not having Donovan as an option off the bench.

I remove Johannsson.  He has done absolutely nothing since to prove that his inclusion was worth it. 

True that the US won against Ghana, but it was by no means easy or pretty.  I'm suggesting that having another experienced player, that can play in the midfield whereas Aaron can only play up top, would have made things much smoother, rather than the last ditch defending/ boot and chase that the US in the 90s was known for.  I don't think Klisnmanns master plan ever had that much defensive third play in it, especially against a team ranked in the 30s when the US was in the teens.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 06, 2018, 11:35:19 AM
The EPL is not a great product. Clubs from 9-20 play an astonishingly poor brand of football for 33 of their 38 rounds.

What major league CAN'T you say that about?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 06, 2018, 12:56:32 PM
Had to break my hiatus for this one. I have a hard time believing that the best MLS team would even be able to make it out of the Championship.

Fulham, Wolverhampton, Derby, would all roll though the MLS.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 06, 2018, 01:00:09 PM
Had to break my hiatus for this one. I have a hard time believing that the best MLS team would even be able to make it out of the Championship.

Fulham, Wolverhampton, Derby, would all roll though the MLS.

Agree, no MLS club could make it in the top four countries.  I could see one finishing mid table in France or Portugal though.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 06, 2018, 03:38:15 PM
Agree, no MLS club could make it in the top four countries.  I could see one finishing mid table in France or Portugal though.

Yep mid-table in the Championship seems about right for a Sporting KC or Toronto FC (from last year).  The problem is you have teams like LA Galaxy or NYFC the last few years who underperform cause they are Frankenstein units meant to showcase an aging European star.

Its interesting how while the former EPL, and similar league, stars get the massive contracts and attention, most of the DPs and guys getting major money contracts are just decent to above average guys from places like the Argentina Superliga or Danish or Swiss leagues, leagues that are objectively on par, if not lower than MLS.  Argentina's top is better, but not the meat of the league after Boca and 1-2 others.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 06, 2018, 03:39:37 PM
Had to break my hiatus for this one. I have a hard time believing that the best MLS team would even be able to make it out of the Championship.

Fulham, Wolverhampton, Derby, would all roll though the MLS.

The Championship, no. But that's because the Championship is by far the best second tier in the world. The Championship is better than many European top-tier leagues. Also, it's a far more entertaining league than the Premiership ever will be.

The Prem, like Serie A and La Liga, are basically 2-4 teams worth a damn and a load of crap below. The Championship has 10-12 legit contenders to start every year, and invariably some team picked for the bottom half makes the playoffs while one of the favorites is fighting relegation by Christmas.

No, it doesn't have the star power or reward of European play, but for excitement and entertainment value, it can't be beat.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 06, 2018, 04:15:52 PM
The Championship, no. But that's because the Championship is by far the best second tier in the world. The Championship is better than many European top-tier leagues. Also, it's a far more entertaining league than the Premiership ever will be.

The Prem, like Serie A and La Liga, are basically 2-4 teams worth a damn and a load of crap below. The Championship has 10-12 legit contenders to start every year, and invariably some team picked for the bottom half makes the playoffs while one of the favorites is fighting relegation by Christmas.

No, it doesn't have the star power or reward of European play, but for excitement and entertainment value, it can't be beat.

Agree 100% I found myself watching way more Championship games than Premier League games this season. I'm just saying the likes of Sessegnon and Grealish would probably make the US squad year on most occasions, but they really weren't even being considered for a "meh" England side.

The US should be sending it's best players to Europe, I know many would like to think the MLS is good enough for player development, but it's really not near that point at the moment. Back it with enough money and sure, but not at the moment.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 06, 2018, 04:42:18 PM
Agree 100% I found myself watching way more Championship games than Premier League games this season. I'm just saying the likes of Sessegnon and Grealish would probably make the US squad year on most occasions, but they really weren't even being considered for a "meh" England side.

The US should be sending it's best players to Europe, I know many would like to think the MLS is good enough for player development, but it's really not near that point at the moment. Back it with enough money and sure, but not at the moment.

I think its more optics for England. Its a proud, id say arrogant, footballing nation, so they need their national team filled with players for top 4 clubs.  If Sessegnon makes a move that he constantly gets rumored for, I think he gets a call up.

But totally agree.  Look what playing for Nottingham did for Eric Lichaj.  Brought him back into the national team picture after being left for dead.  Pretty sure Tim Ream would never get USMNT minutes if he was still in the MLS.  And now Novakovich is showing what happens when you have talent and go get your minutes elsewhere.  Lets just hope he's not another comedown after scoring goals at will in the Netherlands like Johannson and Jozy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on June 06, 2018, 05:21:29 PM
Not to mention Fox.

Fox is really mailing it in. It's going to be so disappointing. I'm pretty anti ESPN but they need the world cup back ASAP.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 07, 2018, 11:51:34 AM
Strange to omit Napoli when discussing Serie a, because they were arguably better than Juve, and could keep their core midfield of Mertens, Hamsik, Insigne, and Milik together. If PSG haven't been removed from uefa than AC Milan has nothing to worry about.  Throw in that Roma made the Champions League semi's and Lazio finished 5th and are likely to have 100+mil to spend from the sale of Savic, they're on the upswing too.  Serie A is most definitely on the rise.

The EPL is arguably the best league in the world. Agree that Arsenal has been a trainwreck for the last couple of years, but now that Wenger is gone they should improve.  Chelsea is always going to be up and down under Abromivich, its been that way for over a decade now, I fully expect them to compete for the title next year.  Spurs are the example of how to win without a budget, just look at what they turned the Bale money into.  Erikson, Dier, Kane, and Alli.  That is a brilliant turnaround.  Jose is always going to play defensive, its the same style he played when he was manager of Real Madrid.  Liverpool just need a keeper now that they have Van Dijk, Klopp is one of the best in the world, once again his style at Liverpool is the same as it was at Dortmund. 

The lower tier EPL teams also play good if not especially sexy too.  You're gonna get more flash in La Liga, but a club like Burnley, Leicester, and Bournmouth all play extremely different styles and they all work.  The only games that were bad to watch were when West Brom would conced 80% possession just to get a 0-0 draw, but they're down now so it shouldn't be a problem for at least a year.

As for the EPL MLS crossover, I'm not sure where you think Kaka, Villa, or Pirlo came from.  Giovinco also came to the MLS when he was 28 and still in his prime.

You argue that Serie A is on the rise which makes my case that it is not an "elite" league. It may one day return to its glory of the 1990s but it is not there now.

No one outside of England or America would argue the EPL is the greatest league in the world. In fact, you rely upon European achievement to make the case for clubs in Italy being elite and yet the European trophies have been dominated over the last decade by Spain. Arguing EPL is better then La Liga fails your European trophy test of greatness.

Gerrard played in the EPL, right? How'd he do in LA? Lampard played in the EPL, right? How'd he do in NYC? Rooney played in the EPL, right? How do you think he'll do in DC? I'm specifically talking about players from the EPL coming over to MLS when their careers are clearly finished.




I remove Johannsson.  He has done absolutely nothing since to prove that his inclusion was worth it. 

True that the US won against Ghana, but it was by no means easy or pretty.  I'm suggesting that having another experienced player, that can play in the midfield whereas Aaron can only play up top, would have made things much smoother, rather than the last ditch defending/ boot and chase that the US in the 90s was known for.  I don't think Klisnmanns master plan ever had that much defensive third play in it, especially against a team ranked in the 30s when the US was in the teens.

The revisionist history is astonishing. Who cares if it wasn't easy or pretty? The US won the match. We are not Argentina or France or Brasil. We cannot downgrade victories in a World Cup because they weren't sexy enough. Everyone has a different thought process but seeing a manager replace an injured forward with a forward does not strike me as the wrong decision.

And you say Johannsson wasn't worthy of selection only because he's been snakebitten with injury after the 2014 World Cup? Wild. Explain to me why him scoring nearly 20 goals in the Eredivisie in the season leading up to Brasil was not good enough to be in the US squad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 07, 2018, 11:52:23 AM
What major league CAN'T you say that about?

Germany.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 07, 2018, 12:33:08 PM
You argue that Serie A is on the rise which makes my case that it is not an "elite" league. It may one day return to its glory of the 1990s but it is not there now.

No one outside of England or America would argue the EPL is the greatest league in the world. In fact, you rely upon European achievement to make the case for clubs in Italy being elite and yet the European trophies have been dominated over the last decade by Spain. Arguing EPL is better then La Liga fails your European trophy test of greatness.

Gerrard played in the EPL, right? How'd he do in LA? Lampard played in the EPL, right? How'd he do in NYC? Rooney played in the EPL, right? How do you think he'll do in DC? I'm specifically talking about players from the EPL coming over to MLS when their careers are clearly finished.


The revisionist history is astonishing. Who cares if it wasn't easy or pretty? The US won the match. We are not Argentina or France or Brasil. We cannot downgrade victories in a World Cup because they weren't sexy enough. Everyone has a different thought process but seeing a manager replace an injured forward with a forward does not strike me as the wrong decision.

And you say Johannsson wasn't worthy of selection only because he's been snakebitten with injury after the 2014 World Cup? Wild. Explain to me why him scoring nearly 20 goals in the Eredivisie in the season leading up to Brasil was not good enough to be in the US squad.

I said that it was below England, Germany and Spain.  Serie a is not as good as it was in the 90s correct, but it is still the 4th best in the world and is still producing world class talents.  I guess you think that only 2 leagues in the world are elite. 

Real Madrid's core is getting up there in age (Ronaldo, Benzema, Ramos, Marcelo, Modric), same with Barca (Pique, Vermaelen, Iniesta, Rakitic, Messi, Suarez), same with Bayern (Neuer, Rafinha, Ribery, Robben, Vidal, Lewandowski), same with Juve (Gigi, Chiellini, Howedes, Cuadrado, Khedira, Marchisio, Matuidi, Higuain, Mandzukic)  Every player listed is 30+.  They'll still buy good young players, but the core of Man City is young (Ederson, Laporte, Stones, Mendy, De Bruyne, Sane, Foden, Jesus, Sterling) the core of Liverpool is young (Van Dijk, Mane, OX, Firmino, Salah, Solanke), the core of Spurs is young (Aurier, Davies, Sanchez, Alli, Dier, Eriksen, Son, Lamela, Kane), the core of Man United is young (Jones, Lingard, Pogba, Lukaku, Martial, Rashford)  All player under 26.  Arsenal are going to go through a complete overhaul, same with Chelsea.

European trophies have been dominated by one club the last 5 years, that one club just happens to be from Spain.  There is really nothing of substance after 3 maybe 4 clubs in Spain (Sevilla hasn't done much since Emery left, and now he's at Arsenal so expect them to back soon).  You can say that you prefer the style of La Liga over the EPL, but to say that level of competition after the top tier teams is greater than in England is foolish.

Lampard and Gerrard each played one year, found that the couldn't cut it and left.  There is a history of players coming over and having a lot left in the tank.  Robbie Keane played 5 season, Beckham played 6 seasons.  There has been a wide range of success for players coming from England to the MLS.  I believe that Rooney can make it for a while, 10 goals in 31 appearances isn't a bad turnover and that's what he did last year at Everton. 

As for the world cup results.  I care more about the way we play rather than results.  The game vs Portugal was probably the best a United States team has ever played and we only got a draw.  Ghana absolutely dominated us. 21 shots to 8. 62% possession to 38%. 7 corners to 3.  We may have won, but we were not the better team.  If we had played that way against Portugal and Germany we would not have advanced from the group, luckily we stepped our game up and got a bit of luck, with Portugals goal difference being destroyed when they played Germany and Ghana losing to Portugal when they could have still stolen our spot.  Also we were clearly trying to park the bus, doing that with 2 up top is a bad managerial decision.  Dempsey works with Jozy because they are two differet types of players, Jozy can hold the ball up until the mids arrive, Dempsey is more of an over the top type forward.  That is the same style of play the Johannsson plays, having two forwards out there making the same runs is a poor managerial decision.  I would have had Donovan playing just behind Dempsey to help clog the midfield and be another player that can pick a pass to Dempsey making a run.  Switch to 4-4-1-1 rather than sticking with a 4-4-2.  A 4-4-2 only works if you have two different styles of forwards or world class midfielders, and we had neither once Jozy went down.

Germany.

This is not true, goal difference may not have been as bad for the bottom teams because there are not as many elite teams in Germany, but Mainz through Cologne were pretty terrible all year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 10, 2018, 11:22:29 AM
Another solid effort yesterday. A few thoughts on performances.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 10, 2018, 12:40:23 PM
Another solid effort yesterday. A few thoughts on performances.

  • Central defense: Admittedly they weren't blameless on the goal, but the four that played (Miazga, Parker, Palmer-Brown, Carter-Williams) all were stout and did more right than wrong. They played as a unit, covered each other's mistakes, and provided hope against a devastating attack. It will be interesting to see how the old mainstays fit in if this is the system going forward.
  • Zach Steffen: He deserved to give up a goal, but it was Paul Pogba's early shot off the post that actually beat him. His defense let him down on the equalizer. Steffen made a number of quality saves and was generally in the right place at the right time. Looked like a future #1.
  • Shaq Moore: One of the few players that looked good going forward. He also was decent in defense. Gave away a few too many free kicks, but better than allowing uncontested chances. Will provide competition to Yedlin and fit well as a wing back.
  • Antonee Robinson: I really like this kid. Still nervous to be excited about any LB, but he has pace and promise.
  • Tyler Adams: Great workrate in what was a forgettable day for most of the front five. Needs to add some muscle, but competed and provided cover for the defense against really tough opposition.
  • Julian Green: He didn't do much, but that was a hell of a first touch.

Impossible to say, but I personally believe that the roster, with less than 5 changes, we saw yesterday would have qualified through the Hex.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 13, 2018, 08:35:06 AM
USA, Mexico, and Canada joint bid will host the 2026 World Cup!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 13, 2018, 08:37:18 AM
USA, Mexico, and Canada joint bid will host the 2026 World Cup!

48 teams.  USA should qualify even if they weren't the host country.   :-\
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 13, 2018, 09:22:15 AM
USA, Mexico, and Canada joint bid will host the 2026 World Cup!

Now Pulisic gets to play in at least one World Cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 13, 2018, 09:28:50 AM
USA, Mexico, and Canada joint bid will host the 2026 World Cup!

Trump accomplishing what Obama never could.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorDad on June 13, 2018, 10:41:43 AM
USA, Mexico, and Canada joint bid will host the 2026 World Cup!

NAFTA works!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 13, 2018, 11:36:08 AM
Now Pulisic gets to play in at least one World Cup.

He'll play in 2022. With a 48 team field, CONCACAF will likely get 6-7 bids, even Klinsmann couldn't have screwed that up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 13, 2018, 11:45:32 AM
He'll play in 2022. With a 48 team field, CONCACAF will likely get 6-7 bids, even Klinsmann couldn't have screwed that up.

2022, only has 32 teams.  2026 is the first with the jump to 48.  Qatar should be the last real qualification campaign until the competition gets watered down.  I'm concerned that 2026 will more be remembered for having too many bad games/bad groups than being a successful tournament economically wise.  3 team groups won't work, the math doesn't support it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 13, 2018, 12:37:43 PM
2022, only has 32 teams.  2026 is the first with the jump to 48.  Qatar should be the last real qualification campaign until the competition gets watered down.  I'm concerned that 2026 will more be remembered for having too many bad games/bad groups than being a successful tournament economically wise.  3 team groups won't work, the math doesn't support it.

There's been talk about expanding sooner (just like talk of 2017 being the last Confederations Cup even though planning is going on for 2021).

As far as 3 team groups, each group would have 3 matches. Team A vs Team B. Team A vs Team C. Team B vs Team C. Everyone gets a bye once. Most likely the top-2 advance in each group into 32 teams of single elimination. It works, but would probably make for a lot of lackluster group play, especially when the results are basically assured after two matches.

I'd much rather see groups of 4 where the top 2 all get into the last 32 automatically, the top-4 third place teams join them, and the bottom-8 third place teams have to play head to head. Would make for more content and more drama.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 13, 2018, 12:58:21 PM
There's been talk about expanding sooner (just like talk of 2017 being the last Confederations Cup even though planning is going on for 2021).

As far as 3 team groups, each group would have 3 matches. Team A vs Team B. Team A vs Team C. Team B vs Team C. Everyone gets a bye once. Most likely the top-2 advance in each group into 32 teams of single elimination. It works, but would probably make for a lot of lackluster group play, especially when the results are basically assured after two matches.

I'd much rather see groups of 4 where the top 2 all get into the last 32 automatically, the top-4 third place teams join them, and the bottom-8 third place teams have to play head to head. Would make for more content and more drama.

I would highly doubt early expansion as that would require more venues being built in Qatar and the problems surrounding the ones currently under construction are already big enough.

I understand how the three team groups would work, but it will immediately fail.  The reason that 4 team groups work is because every game matters.  For example after two fixtures in 2014 all four teams were mathematically still alive in the US's group.  We were tied with Germany at 4 points, and Ghana and Portugal each had one.  If the Ghana Portugal game had occurred a day earlier, then we would have known that we already advanced from the group before we even stepped onto the field against Germany (assuming we didn't lose by 4+ goals).  Therefore the US Germany game would have only decided who won the group (it still would have mattered, but you would have seen weaker teams fielded in order to rest/protect players).  You would also run into problems that (in your scenario) Team C would be fully rested playing against team A that had played only a few days prior.  Any team that plays in the first game of the group and fails to advance would blame it on the scheduling problems that occur with a 3 team group.  Throw in potential collusion by the two teams playing in the third game to screw over the other team and you can be sure that someone if not multiple countries will be calling foul.  These may seem like small problems, but they would be exploited to no end.  Even with 4 team groups it happens to some degree.  Japan got in a lot of trouble during the 2015 Women's World Cup, when their coach openly admitted that they were not playing to win their group, because the group winner had to travel to the other side of the country while the runner up had a significantly shorter commute. 

My fear is that the big story of the 2026 World Cup will be the failure of the 3 team groups, rather than the ability for three countries to co-host the event.  Every World Cup has one big story that it gets remembered by (2014 Brazil's semi final defeat, 2010 Vuvuzelas or Rob Green's mistake, 2006 Zidane's headbutt, 2002 alleged match fixing in favor of co-hosts South Korea) three team groups just won't work.       
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 13, 2018, 01:22:41 PM
News this week that FIFA is tabling the idea of expanding for Qatar.  Expansion looks unlikely until 2026.

How the expanded field works out will be interesting.  I'm thinking 8 pools of 6, top 2 advance.  A 16 team tournament is enough; 32 makes pool play a logistical nightmare.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 13, 2018, 01:27:58 PM
The problem with four-team groups is that it increases the overall number of games.  Right now there are 63 games.  (48 group and 15 knockout.)  Having four team groups and a 32 team knock out is 103 games - 40 more.  (72 group and 31 knockout.)  Three team groups is 48 group games and 31 knockout - so just 16 more.

And it doesn't add any extra games per team.  Teams in the championship will have still played six to get there.  Therefore the entire tournament doesn't take up any more time.  So the tradeoff will be, more teams participating but less games for most teams.  So I don't really mind that all that much.

Another way you could do it is have the top 16 teams have a bye to the group stage, and the rest of the 32 play "play-in" games to get into a group.  Then you play a "regular" World Cup schedule at that point.  That means 16 teams only have one World Cup game however.

Regardless that won't happen.  I heard one thing they may do in three team groups is have no draws.  So all games would have to come down to penalty shootouts.  That would cut down on collusion. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 13, 2018, 01:30:09 PM
News this week that FIFA is tabling the idea of expanding for Qatar.  Expansion looks unlikely until 2026.

How the expanded field works out will be interesting.  I'm thinking 8 pools of 6, top 2 advance.  A 16 team tournament is enough; 32 makes pool play a logistical nightmare.


Way too many games.  120 group games plus 15 knockoff games = 135.  Plus the tournament would need to take 10-14 days longer due to teams in the championship now having to play 9 games versus the six they do now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 13, 2018, 01:30:56 PM
News this week that FIFA is tabling the idea of expanding for Qatar.  Expansion looks unlikely until 2026.

How the expanded field works out will be interesting.  I'm thinking 8 pools of 6, top 2 advance.  A 16 team tournament is enough; 32 makes pool play a logistical nightmare.

I'm not sure this would work either.  One of the big concerns with expansion is that the players would be required to play in more games, coming off domestic season.  The concern is that the players would break down, that is why a group stage game is dropped under the most popular 48 team proposal.  You pick up a knockout game, but lose a group stage game so the max number of games you can play is still 7.  6 team groups would require the tournament to be stretched out significantly longer, which as a fan I would love, but could also understand why the players would hate it.  Until I see a proposal that works better than the current 4 team goups with 32 total teams I'm convinced that Infiantino is just changing things for the sake of changing them (Which I can also understand wanting to bring FIFA out of the Blatter corruption shadow you have to change something).   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 13, 2018, 01:38:06 PM
The problem with four-team groups is that it increases the overall number of games.  Right now there are 63 games.  (48 group and 15 knockout.)  Having four team groups and a 32 team knock out is 103 games - 40 more.  (72 group and 31 knockout.)  Three team groups is 48 group games and 31 knockout - so just 16 more.

And it doesn't add any extra games per team.  Teams in the championship will have still played six to get there.  Therefore the entire tournament doesn't take up any more time.  So the tradeoff will be, more teams participating but less games for most teams.  So I don't really mind that all that much.

Another way you could do it is have the top 16 teams have a bye to the group stage, and the rest of the 32 play "play-in" games to get into a group.  Then you play a "regular" World Cup schedule at that point.  That means 16 teams only have one World Cup game however.

Regardless that won't happen.  I heard one thing they may do in three team groups is have no draws.  So all games would have to come down to penalty shootouts.  That would cut down on collusion.

To be clear, I wasn't proposing 48 teams with 4 team groups.  I think the current 32 teams with 4 team groups is perfect, no expansion necessary.  48 team World Cup would likely see 6 CONCACAF teams, which would completely eliminate the HEX.  Nothing against T+T, they beat us when it mattered, but I don't think anyone could say that their inclusion in this years World Cup would make the competition better or stronger.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 13, 2018, 05:25:10 PM
Some points brought up, so I guess my 8 pools of 6 idea won't work.

Lots of pitfalls with 3 team pools though.  Take this scenario:

Team A 1
Team B 0

Team B 1
Team C 0

Team C 1
Team A 0

We now have a perfect three way tie.  Who advances?  Sure this scenario is unlikely, but not impossible.  And given enough time, it is inevitable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 13, 2018, 11:36:24 PM
Some points brought up, so I guess my 8 pools of 6 idea won't work.

Lots of pitfalls with 3 team pools though.  Take this scenario:

Team A 1
Team B 0

Team B 1
Team C 0

Team C 1
Team A 0

We now have a perfect three way tie.  Who advances?  Sure this scenario is unlikely, but not impossible.  And given enough time, it is inevitable.

Drawing of lots. It's uncommon but has come up before. I don't like it, but that's the system already in place.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 14, 2018, 07:54:42 AM
Drawing of lots. It's uncommon but has come up before. I don't like it, but that's the system already in place.

Ok.  Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 16, 2018, 07:58:57 AM
That Portugal/Spain match yesterday was phenomenal. Ronaldo's two goals in the first allowed the lead despite Spain playing pretty well in their possession style with a brilliant goal from Diego Costa (dubious foul decision aside). Watching Spain claw back to take a lead only to have Ronaldo equalize with a flawless free kick close to the death was excellent. That match was worthy of a semifinal or better. Rare that a group opener is that highly anticipated, even more rare that it exceeds the hype. That was the most thrilling match I've watched since the USA/Canada women's semifinal at the 2012 Olympics.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 16, 2018, 08:00:57 AM
It was cool.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 16, 2018, 09:56:30 AM
Ice, Ice, baby.  (yeah, I posted the same thing in two threads.    Didn't know which one was more appropriate.)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 16, 2018, 10:03:30 AM
Really poor management by Argentina. The only two things they tried were passing around the 18 before taking a long distance shot,  which Iceland blocked every time,  or try to work a series of intricate 1, 2s with Messi, which Iceland smothered. The only two times they went over the top were a pass by Messi when they drew the penalty and a pass to Messi when he almost scored. Should have brought Higuain about 10-15 minutes earlier.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 16, 2018, 11:22:31 AM
Had to put the Peru vs. Denmark game on mute.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on June 16, 2018, 01:34:30 PM
That Portugal/Spain match yesterday was phenomenal. Ronaldo's two goals in the first allowed the lead despite Spain playing pretty well in their possession style with a brilliant goal from Diego Costa (dubious foul decision aside). Watching Spain claw back to take a lead only to have Ronaldo equalize with a flawless free kick close to the death was excellent. That match was worthy of a semifinal or better. Rare that a group opener is that highly anticipated, even more rare that it exceeds the hype. That was the most thrilling match I've watched since the USA/Canada women's semifinal at the 2012 Olympics.
Agreed.

Ronaldo had just settled his off field tax debt with Spain and repays the country with a huge hat trick against them....take that.

An epic battle of the Iberians

What a great match to get the world cup fans engaged and excited
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 16, 2018, 03:12:40 PM
https://i.imgur.com/V7OU0Ne.gifv
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on June 16, 2018, 04:10:19 PM
https://i.imgur.com/V7OU0Ne.gifv

Inspired by this true story:
https://youtu.be/g7Rnt5C2qaQ
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 18, 2018, 11:43:11 PM
hey everyone... There are World Cup stats on my website.

Write-up
https://www.lowedownstats.com/2018/06/19/world-cup-team-stats-are-here/

Direct Link
https://www.lowedownstats.com/league/fwc/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on June 19, 2018, 08:52:55 AM
Japan over Columbia.  Holy Schmidt.  Columbia played nearly the whole game a man down.  Red card for stopping a sure goal with his arm.  Japan scored any way on the PK.   Very biased announcers.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 19, 2018, 01:33:56 PM
Poland and Senegal 1-1, but the ref absolutely handed a goal to Senegal to gift them 3 points. Worst reffing decision I've ever seen at a World Cup. Worse than Koman Coulibaly. Poland played a ball back to the keeper and a Senegalese player was waved on by the ref from what would've been an offside position and allowed to run virtually unimpeded onto the ball. Ref should never step on another pitch as long as he lives.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 19, 2018, 01:38:30 PM
Poland and Senegal 1-1, but the ref absolutely handed a goal to Senegal to gift them 3 points. Worst reffing decision I've ever seen at a World Cup. Worse than Koman Coulibaly. Poland played a ball back to the keeper and a Senegalese player was waved on by the ref from what would've been an offside position and allowed to run virtually unimpeded onto the ball. Ref should never step on another pitch as long as he lives.


It was 1-0 at that point.  Poland didn't score until the end.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 19, 2018, 01:39:39 PM
Poland and Senegal 1-1, but the ref absolutely handed a goal to Senegal to gift them 3 points. Worst reffing decision I've ever seen at a World Cup. Worse than Koman Coulibaly. Poland played a ball back to the keeper and a Senegalese player was waved on by the ref from what would've been an offside position and allowed to run virtually unimpeded onto the ball. Ref should never step on another pitch as long as he lives.

Actually, it was fine. Unlucky timing for Poland, but ultimately it was their sloppy play that allowed the goal to happen, not the official.
Also, some of my British friends would like a word with you.

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-03-2015/K-MSRA.gif)

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 19, 2018, 01:43:48 PM
Both goals that Poland conceded were extremely unlucky, that's the way the soccer gods work sometime, but I had no problem with the ref allowing the second to stand.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 19, 2018, 01:47:02 PM
https://i.imgur.com/V7OU0Ne.gifv

I enjoyed that.  The best thing is that there was that ever-so-brief moment where I thought, "hey, that seems a little exaggerated" before realizing the joke.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 19, 2018, 02:23:14 PM
Wind absolutely fell out of Egypt's sails after the first goal.  Really bad defending for both 2 and 3.  Russia on to the knockout rounds.  Only host not to make it is still RSA in 2010.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 19, 2018, 02:26:33 PM
I saw a headline saying that the Saudi World Cup team had an "in-flight engine fire" and honestly thought for a moment that it was a figure of speech to describe their performance akin to "train wreck" or "dumpster fire." 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 19, 2018, 02:53:17 PM

It was 1-0 at that point.  Poland didn't score until the end.

Not sure how that's relevant. Both teams scored one fair goal.

I get why the goal stood, but allowing a player to come on to the pitch behind the last defender as a ball is played back by the team in possession is inexcusable. The Hand of God was bad but things get missed in the run of play. This was a deliberate choice by the ref that dramatically altered the run of play.

And while the pass wasn't anything special, teams play soft balls back to the keeper in every game in the history of the sport. The only way that pass creates danger is if the ref waves a player on who's behind the last defender. No other green shirt would've had any remote chance at that ball.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 19, 2018, 03:00:59 PM
Not sure how that's relevant. Both teams scored one fair goal.

I get why the goal stood, but allowing a player to come on to the pitch behind the last defender as a ball is played back by the team in possession is inexcusable. The Hand of God was bad but things get missed in the run of play. This was a deliberate choice by the ref that dramatically altered the run of play.

And while the pass wasn't anything special, teams play soft balls back to the keeper in every game in the history of the sport. The only way that pass creates danger is if the ref waves a player on who's behind the last defender. No other green shirt would've had any remote chance at that ball.

When the ref first signals the player to come back on, the ball was just coming of the Senegalese players head.  The Polish player then hen time and space to take more than the one touch back to no mans land in between the last defender and the keeper.  It was one of the unluckiest goals I've seen in recent history, but the ref was not at fault.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 19, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
Not sure how that's relevant. Both teams scored one fair goal.

When you said "Poland and Senegal, 1-1" I thought you were stating it was 1-1 when it happened. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 19, 2018, 03:27:35 PM
When the ref first signals the player to come back on, the ball was just coming of the Senegalese players head.  The Polish player then hen time and space to take more than the one touch back to no mans land in between the last defender and the keeper.  It was one of the unluckiest goals I've seen in recent history, but the ref was not at fault.

Exactly. The Senegalese player was on the field at least 2-3 second before the Polish player chose to play the ball back, which means he was signaled back on to the field at least a second or two before then.
For Brew's contention that this was somehow a deliberate choice by the official to hold:
1. The official would have to have somehow known the Senegalese player's header would end up in the possession of a Polish player.
2.  That Polish player would then execute a sloppy pass back into his own end.
3. The nearest Polish player would lazily retreat to retrieve that pass because he was embarrassingly unaware of the circumstances around him, including the Senegalese player standing at midfield waiting to return to the game.

So, either that official was remarkably prescient - in which case he should give up the gig and become a day trader - or it was a combination of bad luck and bad play by Poland.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 19, 2018, 03:27:59 PM
Wind absolutely fell out of Egypt's sails after the first goal.  Really bad defending for both 2 and 3.  Russia on to the knockout rounds.  Only host not to make it is still RSA in 2010.


Well it's not official that Russia will be in the knockouts.  If Saudi Arabia beats Uruguay and Egypt, and Uruguay clobbers Russia enough to overcome the goal difference, Russia will be on the outside.

But that's not going to happen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 19, 2018, 04:01:18 PM
I get why the goal stood, but allowing a player to come on to the pitch behind the last defender as a ball is played back by the team in possession is inexcusable. The Hand of God was bad but things get missed in the run of play. This was a deliberate choice by the ref that dramatically altered the run of play.

I'm not an expert by any stretch...but looking at a replay of that goal (https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/video/1259217475511), I think think your description is a little off.  When the Ref waved the Senegalese player onto the pitch (see 0:24 of that video), the ball was actually high in the air off a Polish header moving toward the Senegal defense.  At this point, the player had already been waved on, and was moving onto the field.  Then a Senegalese player headed the ball toward the Polish defense.  Then a Polish player, apparently not realizing that the Senegalese player had been waved on, played the ball back to his keeper.

You can see it unfold really well on the embedded Telemundo tweet on this page (https://www.sbnation.com/2018/6/19/17479354/mbaye-niang-goal-senegal-vs-poland-world-cup-2018), but the timing of the ref waving the player on is easier to see on the link above.  The wide angle shot that shows both the Senegalese player and the action on the field begins at 0:37.  You can see that he starts onto the field while the ball is still going toward the Senegal defense (0:44).  He may even have gotten on-side, but it's hard to tell.*  At the moment the Pole plays the ball back (0:46) the Senegalese player was already 10 meters onto the field.

In short, the Senegalese player was waved onto the field before the ball was played back to the keeper.  In fact, when he was waved on, the ball was high in the air and closer to the Senegal penalty box than it was to midfield and moving toward the Senegal end.  I'm not really sure how the referee could possibly have anticipated what the next two touches would be when he waved the player onto the pitch.  In fact, seems like a good time to wave him on.  The next two touches, however, made it obviously an extremely unlucky time (for the Polish side).

*In any event, asking from my soccer ignorance, would off-sides even be an issue there since the Pole played it back?  I honestly don't know.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on June 19, 2018, 04:09:10 PM

Well it's not official that Russia will be in the knockouts.  If Saudi Arabia beats Uruguay and Egypt, and Uruguay clobbers Russia enough to overcome the goal difference, Russia will be on the outside.

But that's not going to happen.

(https://i.imgflip.com/2290k2.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 19, 2018, 04:13:56 PM
I'm not an expert by any stretch...but looking at a replay of that goal (https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/video/1259217475511), I think think your description is a little off.  When the Ref waved the Senegalese player onto the pitch (see 0:24 of that video), the ball was actually high in the air moving toward the Senegal defense off a Polish header.  At this point, the player has already been waved in, and is moving onto the field.  Then a Senegalese player headed the ball toward the Polish defense.  Then a Polish player, not realizing that the Senegalese player had been waved on, played the ball back to his keeper.

You can see it unfold really well on the embedded Telemundo tweet on this page (https://www.sbnation.com/2018/6/19/17479354/mbaye-niang-goal-senegal-vs-poland-world-cup-2018), but the timing of the ref waving the player on is easier to see on the link above.  The wide angle shot that shows both the Senegalese player and the action on the field begins at 0:37.  You can see he starts onto the field while the ball is still going toward the Senegal defense (0:44).  He may even have gotten on-side, but it's hard to tell.  In any event, asking from my soccer ignorance, would off-sides even be an issue there since the Pole played it back?  I honestly don't know.

In short, the Senegalese player was waved onto the field before the ball was played back to the keeper.  In fact, when he was waved on, the ball was high in the air and closer to the Senegal penalty box than it was to midfield and moving toward the Senegal end.  I'm not really sure how the referee could possibly have anticipated what the next two touches would be when he waved the player onto the pitch.

Since the Polish player was the one to play the ball last, the Senegalese player can't be offsides by rule. Also you can't be offside if you start in your own half and since you need to be at midfield in order to re enter the field he couldn't have been offsides. Very unlucky for Poland, but no violation of a rule occured.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 20, 2018, 10:03:01 AM
Since the Polish player was the one to play the ball last, the Senegalese player can't be offsides by rule. Also you can't be offside if you start in your own half and since you need to be at midfield in order to re enter the field he couldn't have been offsides. Very unlucky for Poland, but no violation of a rule occured.

This isn't technically correct. Yes, if the Polish player is the last to touch it nothing else matters. However, you don't have to re-enter AT the midfield line, just near it. In fact, in the video the player re-enters in the Senegalese offensive half of the field AND it appears he's behind the 2nd to last Polish player which puts him in an offside position(but since the other conditions for an offside call don't exist it isn't called). Further because he is off the pitch initially at that point he's not in an offside position(have to be inside the touchlines to be in an offside position) so even if a Senegalese played it forward with him off the field but with the ball in the air he came on to the field he wouldn't be called for offside either.

To that last point, a player can step off the pitch at the end line to remove himself from an offside position so that his team can continue to attack the goal. It's a bit of a grey area because you require the officials permission to re-enter the field but you don't see people stepping out all that frequently and even less where the player re-enters in an advantageous position without the official inviting them back on.

And not to get highly technical but offsides is American Football, offside is soccer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 20, 2018, 10:41:25 AM
This isn't technically correct. Yes, if the Polish player is the last to touch it nothing else matters. However, you don't have to re-enter AT the midfield line, just near it. In fact, in the video the player re-enters in the Senegalese offensive half of the field AND it appears he's behind the 2nd to last Polish player which puts him in an offside position(but since the other conditions for an offside call don't exist it isn't called). Further because he is off the pitch initially at that point he's not in an offside position(have to be inside the touchlines to be in an offside position) so even if a Senegalese played it forward with him off the field but with the ball in the air he came on to the field he wouldn't be called for offside either.

To that last point, a player can step off the pitch at the end line to remove himself from an offside position so that his team can continue to attack the goal. It's a bit of a grey area because you require the officials permission to re-enter the field but you don't see people stepping out all that frequently and even less where the player re-enters in an advantageous position without the official inviting them back on.

And not to get highly technical but offsides is American Football, offside is soccer.

It doesn't matter when he was off the field because he re-entered before the ball was played.

You can only enter the field from anywhere if there is a stoppage in play.  Since the play was live you are required to re-enter midfield because you need to confirm with the fourth official that you are okay to re-enter play (the two or so feet into the attacking half is a grey area, kinda how throw ins and free kicks don't have to be taken on the exact spot that the ball left play/ foul occurred).  This is where Poland may have a case, because the fourth official does not appear to interact with the player because he if checking with the other player that appears to be coming on as a sub.  The replay doesn't show if the injured played checked in with the fourth official before the fourth official started to ready the sub.  If he did not check in with the official he should not have been allowed to re-enter play.  This rule is often ignored because refs want to allow the teams to return to full strength as fast as possible, it is also ignored on most muscle injuries because the main priority of those checks is to confirm that there is no blood on the uniform. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 28, 2018, 09:56:40 PM
Rooney to DCU. Still rumors of the Fire wanting Torres.

Someone please tell me how this league is supposed to be legit and not a retirement league.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on June 28, 2018, 10:14:18 PM
Rooney to DCU. Still rumors of the Fire wanting Torres.

Someone please tell me how this league is supposed to be legit and not a retirement league.

Because there are leagues all around the world that take superstars past their prime. Sometimes it works out well for all parties too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 29, 2018, 12:51:51 PM
Rooney to DCU. Still rumors of the Fire wanting Torres.

Someone please tell me how this league is supposed to be legit and not a retirement league.

Because Rooney puts butts in seats which turns into revenue which then can be turned into contracts for up and coming players and development infrastructure.

I'd be with you if they had signed 12 Rooney's to their roster, but having some well known talent isn't a bad thing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 29, 2018, 12:56:25 PM
Because Rooney puts butts in seats which turns into revenue which then can be turned into contracts for up and coming players and development infrastructure.

I'd be with you if they had signed 12 Rooney's to their roster, but having some well known talent isn't a bad thing.

Especially with DC's on-field struggles.  They've pretty much lived at the bottom of the table for two years now.  Franchise needs a little excitement.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 29, 2018, 01:36:42 PM
Because Rooney puts butts in seats which turns into revenue which then can be turned into contracts for up and coming players and development infrastructure.

I'd be with you if they had signed 12 Rooney's to their roster, but having some well known talent isn't a bad thing.

Ug. I guess. Maybe I'm just cynical as a long-time Fire fan.

IMO, I wish my supported organization would try and actually create long-term success through solid academy development and 2nd division team vs short-term gains for a "name". Examples: FC Dallas, NYRB, RSL
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 29, 2018, 01:52:24 PM
Ug. I guess. Maybe I'm just cynical as a long-time Fire fan.

IMO, I wish my supported organization would try and actually create long-term success through solid academy development and 2nd division team vs short-term gains for a "name". Examples: FC Dallas, NYRB, RSL

I mentioned this before, but I truly believe that the increase in acquisition of "name" players is because of expansion.  In 2008 there were 14 MLS teams, and the level of competition was fairly high.  There are currently 23 teams, with plans to go to as many as 28.  That means in a decade the academies that produce the home grown players would have needed to double their output, and that is simply not possible in a time frame that short.  Once these expansion teams have academies that are more established, the overall level of competition will rise and these more washed up European players won't be able to cut it. 

You're already seeing the MLS take itself more seriously by considering dropping the all-star game, which creates an unnecessary break in the schedule in order to bring in a European club playing its preseason games.  The popularity of the sport in this country has surpassed the need to do that.  The more the MLS can treat itself like a real league, the better it will be in the long run.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 29, 2018, 02:26:00 PM
28 is too much. Keep it at 22 max and go to a promotion/relegation system to promote better competition.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 10, 2018, 08:24:23 AM
Rooney to DCU. Still rumors of the Fire wanting Torres.

Someone please tell me how this league is supposed to be legit and not a retirement league.

These are now officially dead.  Torres heading to Japan.

I always thought Ronaldo would retire at Real, but I guess the whole Neymar saga last year truly changes everything.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 10, 2018, 09:46:30 AM
These are now officially dead.  Torres heading to Japan.

I always thought Ronaldo would retire at Real, but I guess the whole Neymar saga last year truly changes everything.

Torres being 34 makes me feel ancient.  Still my second favorite Red ever after Owen, but Salah making a hard push if he sticks around a few years.

I feel fairly confident that Ronaldo pulls a Zlatan and comes to the MLS, but not for maybe 4-5 years.  In impact I think it would be more like Beckham's Galaxy move.  He's made mention of it in the past, and I think for such a global icon, it makes sense once his elite European days are past.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 10, 2018, 10:48:08 AM
28 is too much. Keep it at 22 max and go to a promotion/relegation system to promote better competition.

Promotion/relegation sounds great, but that ship has long since sailed. What current owner is going to willingly go along with a system that could deprive them of millions in revenue if their team has a poor year?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 10, 2018, 10:49:06 AM

I feel fairly confident that Ronaldo pulls a Zlatan and comes to the MLS, but not for maybe 4-5 years.  In impact I think it would be more like Beckham's Galaxy move.  He's made mention of it in the past, and I think for such a global icon, it makes sense once his elite European days are past.

But first, a stop in Italy.

NBC Sports Soccer @NBCSportsSoccer
BREAKING: @Cristiano is joining @juventusfc. His transfer has been announced by @realmadrid.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on July 10, 2018, 11:56:04 AM
But first, a stop in Italy.

NBC Sports Soccer @NBCSportsSoccer
BREAKING: @Cristiano is joining @juventusfc. His transfer has been announced by @realmadrid.

Never thought it would actually happen. I figured he would retire his competitive career at either Real Madrid or back in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 10, 2018, 12:29:40 PM
Running from the Spanish government and his taxes, eh?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Litehouse on July 13, 2018, 12:59:11 PM
For a little WI connection, Kohler was announced as the new sleeve sponsor for Man U.
https://www.manutd.kohler.com/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUEng92 on July 17, 2018, 04:56:09 PM
For a little WI connection, Kohler was announced as the new sleeve sponsor for Man U.
https://www.manutd.kohler.com/
When I heard about that, I was picturing something small that only people who already knew Kohler would pick up on.  The font of the name on the sleeve actually seemed much more prominent than I was expecting.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Litehouse on July 19, 2018, 12:05:04 PM
When I heard about that, I was picturing something small that only people who already knew Kohler would pick up on.  The font of the name on the sleeve actually seemed much more prominent than I was expecting.
The new kits with the Kohler logo are now available.  Its definitely noticeable.
http://us.store.manutd.com/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 13, 2018, 08:41:08 AM
Don't know if anyone else saw this, but Rooney absolutely still has the legs and ability to pick a pass to be a contributor in the MLS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soccer-insider/wp/2018/08/12/wayne-rooney-luciano-acosta-combine-for-remarkable-goal-to-lift-d-c-united-over-orlando-city/?utm_term=.0d6d85f7b013
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 13, 2018, 11:07:17 AM
Don't know if anyone else saw this, but Rooney absolutely still has the legs and ability to pick a pass to be a contributor in the MLS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soccer-insider/wp/2018/08/12/wayne-rooney-luciano-acosta-combine-for-remarkable-goal-to-lift-d-c-united-over-orlando-city/?utm_term=.0d6d85f7b013

I have no love for Man United, and have loved taking shots at Rooney, but this is everything right with the high priced aging stars coming to MLS.  If he's working his butt off two ways and not only glory seeking, he can be a fantastic marketing point and dispel some of the criticisms.

Beyond that, what an absolutely fantastic run back and incredible ball in.  Also, Acosta is like 5'4, so him getting up to win that free header is pretty incredible.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on August 13, 2018, 06:29:00 PM
By the way, my soccer website now has

EPL (2018, 2017, 2016)
https://www.lowedownstats.com/league/epl/

Ligue 1 (2018)
https://www.lowedownstats.com/league/fra/

MLS (2018, 2017, 2016, 2015)
https://www.lowedownstats.com/league/mls/

Liga MX (2017, 2018)
https://www.lowedownstats.com/league/liga-mx/

Note that the Liga MX data is kind of jacked right now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 07, 2018, 08:03:53 PM
Can't say the scoreline isn't deserved, but that was an awfully soft penalty. We'll see what happens in the second half.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 07, 2018, 09:02:51 PM
Much better 2nd half.  Yedlin was the best American out there. His growth since moving to Newcastle is ridiculous. He needs to stick at close to Benitez as possible.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 08, 2018, 12:32:59 PM
It wasn't a bad performance. Created some legit chances in both halves and the penalty was soft as Charmin. Brazil was better, but our kids weren't played off the pitch.

The biggest problem was we had no one to create viable danger without Pulisic. Wood did nothing because no one could get him the ball. The wingers were ineffective in attack & we never got anything going through the middle. Hopefully they will develop into more effective attackers, but our buildup was useless.

While Robinson got skinned a few times by Douglas Costa, I thought the defense was okay. Nothing to be embarrassed about.

What shocked me most wasn't game related. When I saw a promo for next Summer's Gold Cup, I got excited. Like legit "I can't wait" excited. That's a sad indicator of how long we've gone without playing a meaningful match. Really hoping this year brings a lot of positive development for guys like Weah, Sargent, and McKinney. We'll need them sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 08, 2018, 01:09:43 PM
Arriola and Green were placed in the formation poorly. Neither are really attacking wingers.

Lots to like from that game if you look at it from a development point of view.

Miazga and Brooks will make a fine CB duo through 2022. Possibly subbing one out for CCK, pending development.

Add Pulisic to last night's team, start Weah (sit Wood), play a better formation conducive to our strengths. That's a money team moving forward.

Central mid was solid. Trapp was better than I expected.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 08, 2018, 02:13:08 PM
Add Pulisic to last night's team, start Weah (sit Wood), play a better formation conducive to our strengths. That's a money team moving forward.

I'm torn on striker. Wood didn't do anything yesterday nor for club recently, but he's generally good for the Nats & no striker could've produced with that lack of service.

Jozy is probably the best option of a marginal pool (Wood, Zardes, Sargent, Novakovich). I hope Josh comes good, but he's probably a few years away.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 08, 2018, 02:19:09 PM
I'm torn on striker. Wood didn't do anything yesterday nor for club recently, but he's generally good for the Nats & no striker could've produced with that lack of service.

Jozy is probably the best option of a marginal pool (Wood, Zardes, Sargent, Novakovich). I hope Josh comes good, but he's probably a few years away.

Understandable. I think Jozy is the best option. I'd bring Weah, Sargent and Novakovich as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 10, 2018, 08:04:11 AM
It may just be me, but I've always thought that the U.S. gets just a bit better this time of year.  Quite a few famous results in the early September International Break, most notably a dos a cero to go to the 2006 WC.  I get the feeling that pulling on that jersey is a little more special on a day like Tuesday.  My hope is that we don't lose that extra sense of national pride with the new generation either not being alive, or being to young to remember 9/11, because a good result tomorrow can go a long way in building confidence for more meaningful games.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 12, 2018, 09:23:23 AM
Solid win, even if it was sloppy/boring.

Miazga is man of the match.

Players I think have a great future with the USMNT from watching their play recently (who haven't featured a lot in the past): Steffen, Miazga, Robinson, McKennie, Weah, Adams
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 12, 2018, 09:39:01 AM
Solid win, even if it was sloppy/boring.

Miazga is man of the match.

Players I think have a great future with the USMNT from watching their play recently (who haven't featured a lot in the past): Steffen, Miazga, Robinson, McKennie, Weah, Adams

Agree on all fronts.  The US plays so much better with 2 at the top.  This has been known for quite some time and I'm not quite sure why it took 45 minutes to figure out last night.  Knowing that, along with our roster make-up, I'd strongly be in favor of a 3-5-2.

Back line of Miazga, Brooks, and CCV.  Use Yedlin and Robinson as wing-backs.  Some combination of Adams, McKennie and Trapp anchoring the midfield, allowing Pulisic to be a no. 10.  Feeding a combination of Novakovic, Jozy, Sargent, and Weah (preferably Jozy and Weah).

Starting 11 of Steffen, Miazga, Brooks, CCV, Yedlin, Adams, McKennie, Robinson, Pulisic, Jozy, and Weah.  Average age of just under 22, would increase to just under 23 by the time the first round of WCQ starts.  Oldest player, Jozy at 28.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 12, 2018, 10:13:27 AM
Lainez for me was the best player on the pitch. He just emanated danger every time he was on the ball. Watching him, I imagine that's how the rest of CONCACAF felt when they first saw Pulisic. He's going to be a terror for the next 12-15 years.

On our side, really liked what I saw from Adams. Smart, savvy, and plays older than his years. He has some Michael Bradley in him, albeit in a smaller package.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 12, 2018, 11:10:40 AM
1. Let's discuss Pulisic for a minute...

Do some digging through here and let me know your thoughts: https://twitter.com/MattDoyle76/status/1039674642800291842

Should USMNT play him as a #10? Is it his best position to play on the field for his skillset?

2.  Sarachen has some good qualities. Enstilled in the team shape and discipline. But he doesn't put on formations or players that would support his "we need to attack" philosophy. And he constantly puts players in bad positions (Acosta and Weak as wide mids?)

3. Green successful as an attacking mid?! Who saw that coming?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 12, 2018, 11:34:36 AM
1. Let's discuss Pulisic for a minute...

Do some digging through here and let me know your thoughts: https://twitter.com/MattDoyle76/status/1039674642800291842

Should USMNT play him as a #10? Is it his best position to play on the field for his skillset?

2.  Sarachen has some good qualities. Enstilled in the team shape and discipline. But he doesn't put on formations or players that would support his "we need to attack" philosophy. And he constantly puts players in bad positions (Acosta and Weak as wide mids?)

3. Green successful as an attacking mid?! Who saw that coming?

1. I'd agree with TT. Pulisic can, has, and will continue to play a no. 10 for the US.  It may not be his natural position, but his natural position is the same as Weah, and you want both of them on the field as much as possible, because they are and will continue to be two of the most talented players we have.

2. I may or may not have mentioned this before, but I'd like to see Tab Ramos as the next HC.  Historically you only get one WC cycle, and we'll still be young in 2022, why not give it to a guy that has worked with a lot of the players before at the youth level, and is already familiar with a international style (only actually coaching 10 games in a calendar year).  He would already know their strengths and be able to play them in their best positions. All this youth should be hitting its prime in 2026, combined with the fact that we're hosting, I would think that it would be a very attractive job then and you can go for a home run hire, but now I'm rambling so I'll get back on point.

3.  I was very impressed with him.  Green, Wood, and Brooks (although for different reasons) need to have good domestic seasons the next couple of years.  Neither Green, nor Wood has proven that they can get the job done in the Bundesliga yet, despite putting up very promising numbers in the Bundesliga II.  Brooks needs to prove that he can stay healthy.  No doubt the talent is there, but that old "what if" he had been healthy to play T+T, and we didn't have to go with Gonzalez and Besler at center back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 12, 2018, 12:02:40 PM
1. I'd agree with TT. Pulisic can, has, and will continue to play a no. 10 for the US.  It may not be his natural position, but his natural position is the same as Weah, and you want both of them on the field as much as possible, because they are and will continue to be two of the most talented players we have.

2. I may or may not have mentioned this before, but I'd like to see Tab Ramos as the next HC.  Historically you only get one WC cycle, and we'll still be young in 2022, why not give it to a guy that has worked with a lot of the players before at the youth level, and is already familiar with a international style (only actually coaching 10 games in a calendar year).  He would already know their strengths and be able to play them in their best positions. All this youth should be hitting its prime in 2026, combined with the fact that we're hosting, I would think that it would be a very attractive job then and you can go for a home run hire, but now I'm rambling so I'll get back on point.

3.  I was very impressed with him.  Green, Wood, and Brooks (although for different reasons) need to have good domestic seasons the next couple of years.  Neither Green, nor Wood has proven that they can get the job done in the Bundesliga yet, despite putting up very promising numbers in the Bundesliga II.  Brooks needs to prove that he can stay healthy.  No doubt the talent is there, but that old "what if" he had been healthy to play T+T, and we didn't have to go with Gonzalez and Besler at center back.

What about a 4-3-3? In this hypothetical, you'd have something like:

        Weah-Jozy-Pulisic
        McKennie-Acosta
             Bradley
Robinson-Miazga-Brooks-Yedlin

Robinson/Yedlin make overlapping/wing runs as they tend to do. Weah/Pulisic are more attackers who cut inside. Double pivot with McKennie-Acosta.

Could also make a bunch of different combinations of the middle 3 with McKennie/Acosta/Bradley/Adams/Trapp/etc
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 12, 2018, 12:19:07 PM
1. Let's discuss Pulisic for a minute...

Do some digging through here and let me know your thoughts: https://twitter.com/MattDoyle76/status/1039674642800291842

Should USMNT play him as a #10? Is it his best position to play on the field for his skillset?

I saw Doyle's commentary last night and it immediately made me think of Clint Dempsey. In MLS and his early USMNT days, Dempsey played primarily as a wing midfielder. Because of Donovan normally out right, Dempsey usually ended up as a left mid that would drift inside. When he got to Fulham, they fairly quickly moved him to playing a center forward position.

In context, this was 2007. At the time, we had Eddie Johnson bursting onto the scene as a goal-scorer, Freddy Adu was the next big thing, and Jozy Altidore was a precocious 17-year-old breaking into the New York Red Bull lineup. We were loaded with young forwards. Americans envisioned a future with the blazing speed of Johnson and strength of Altidore up top, Adu sitting in the 10 spot behind them, and Dempsey and Donovan on the wings. And here's Fulham undermining that by putting him in the middle of the pitch.

Fast forward to today. Johnson never found consistency, Adu was more hype than hope, and it was Dempsey who combined with Altidore while Donovan moved more centrally as his pace started to slow. Dempsey became our joint leading goal scorer and as a forward retired as at worst one of the 2-3 best players ever to pull on the shirt and undoubtedly our most accomplished overseas professional.

The moral of the story is the best position for the player is the one his club team will play him at. The national team manager gets a half-dozen non-consecutive weeks a year to train these guys, the club teams get 9-10 months. The vast majority of their training time is going to be where the club team plays them, their experience and expertise will come where the club team plays them, and a smart national team manager is going to use players in a way that favors the strengths the club team trains into the players.

Is Pulisic a 10? Is he a wing? I think it all comes down to what the club team is doing. Sure, he'll have to drift wide or centrally at times, but trying to force him into a different hole size at the national team level than what he's doing at the club team level is a losing effort.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 12, 2018, 12:24:50 PM
What about a 4-3-3? In this hypothetical, you'd have something like:

        Weah-Jozy-Pulisic
        McKennie-Acosta
             Bradley
Robinson-Miazga-Brooks-Yedlin

Robinson/Yedlin make overlapping/wing runs as they tend to do. Weah/Pulisic are more attackers who cut inside. Double pivot with McKennie-Acosta.

Could also make a bunch of different combinations of the middle 3 with McKennie/Acosta/Bradley/Adams/Trapp/etc

I think a 4-3-3 could work, although it does raise a few new questions.

I'd be hesitant to use a right footed player (Weah) on the left wing.  Lichaj struggled quite a bit playing on the left side last night, and while I think Weah will be much better than Lichaj, he'd still be playing more out of position than if Pulisic played the no. 10.

Also for the 4-3-3 to work, I think you would have to see major improvement out of at least one of McKennie, Acosta, Adams or Trapp.  It could very well happen, but I haven't seen any of them really take control of an international game and dictate everything the way Pulisic can.  I actually really hope it does happen, because I always want to see young Americans improve, but I think it would have to be McKennie improving at Shalke, or Adams moving to Europe (supposedly RB Liepzig has been interested and that would be a great club for him).

This is obviously only my opinion, but I believe that Michael Bradley will never play for the US again. He'd be 34 for the next WC and the legs just won't be there.  You can make up for that if you have the ability to pick a world class pass, but he doesn't have that either.

Obviously there will be some experimenting, especially initially after a new coach is named, so multiple players will get a chance to prove themselves at multiple positions, but right now I think our best lineup has Pulisic at the no. 10.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 12, 2018, 12:49:11 PM
I saw Doyle's commentary last night and it immediately made me think of Clint Dempsey. In MLS and his early USMNT days, Dempsey played primarily as a wing midfielder. Because of Donovan normally out right, Dempsey usually ended up as a left mid that would drift inside. When he got to Fulham, they fairly quickly moved him to playing a center forward position.

I think this is an apples to oranges comparison for a couple of reasons. 

When Dempsey first went to Fulham he was going to be used as a winger, but he couldn't get into the team to begin the 2007 season.  He only went up top, because McBride got hurt and Clint needed to play.  Clubs will often throw wingers up top in emergency situations.  The club then converted him.  You're right that it's the clubs call, and they made the correct call, but when he was initially bought the plan was for him to play in the midfield.

Also, Dempsey was supposed to be a part of a solid core.  Pulisic is head and shoulders ahead of every other American.  The 2022 team will absolutely be built around him, the same way that other National Teams build around their stars (Rakitic played much deeped for Croatia than he normally does for Barca because Croatia needed Modric to play the no. 10).  The 2010 and 2014 teams were never going to be built around Dempsey.  He was an integral piece, yes, but he was not as vital as Pulisic will be moving forward. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 12, 2018, 12:59:56 PM
If Pulisic is playing on the wing 40 weeks a year, I would rather see him playing there than in the middle. If he's playing in the middle, I'd rather see him there than on the wing.

Consider Ronaldo and Messi. Our hope is that Pulisic is one of the next great players in the world. For Portugal, Ronaldo has lifted them to great heights from the wing. There's no doubt he pulls the strings and is their best player from a wide position. The same is true for Messi and Argentina, but from the middle of the pitch. Wherever Pulisic plays, we are hoping he has the ability to take over a game from wherever he is on the pitch. And he'll be more comfortable doing that from whatever position his club team has him in for the vast majority of the year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 12, 2018, 01:15:41 PM
If Pulisic is playing on the wing 40 weeks a year, I would rather see him playing there than in the middle. If he's playing in the middle, I'd rather see him there than on the wing.

Consider Ronaldo and Messi. Our hope is that Pulisic is one of the next great players in the world. For Portugal, Ronaldo has lifted them to great heights from the wing. There's no doubt he pulls the strings and is their best player from a wide position. The same is true for Messi and Argentina, but from the middle of the pitch. Wherever Pulisic plays, we are hoping he has the ability to take over a game from wherever he is on the pitch. And he'll be more comfortable doing that from whatever position his club team has him in for the vast majority of the year.
?????

Messi plays different positions for club and country.  At Barca he's on the right, with Dembele on the left, and Suarez through the middle.  Then they have Rakitic and Coutinho pulling the strings.  For Argentina he plays more of a natural no. 10, because they have strikers galore with Aguero, Icardi, and Higuain.  That's why Dybala didn't start a game for them at the WC.  He's one of the best no. 10's in the world, but the team is built around Messi so Messi plays out of position and pushes Dybala to the bench.

You also run into questions about what to do with Weah.  If both Pulisic and Weah play all year out wide for their clubs are you not going to play Weah because he plays the same position as Pulisic?  If you play them both, which is the best option IMO, Pulisic is less out of position in the middle than Weah would be on the left.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 12, 2018, 03:56:29 PM
I may have made my point poorly. The Messi/Ronaldo comparison was simply to illustrate that players can run a match from different positions on the pitch. The Dempsey story was why I prefer that players play similar to their club roles.

Can there be extenuating circumstances? Sure. A glut of players at one position or an absolute talent void at another, but all things being equal, I would want the best players to play in their natural club positions.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 12, 2018, 04:11:44 PM
You also run into questions about what to do with Weah.  If both Pulisic and Weah play all year out wide for their clubs are you not going to play Weah because he plays the same position as Pulisic?  If you play them both, which is the best option IMO, Pulisic is less out of position in the middle than Weah would be on the left.

I agree with this, and we'll have to see how they both develop. My inclination is that Weah would be better suited on the wing and Pulisic in the middle, but who knows if they both come good? Alternately, with Earnie Stewart taking the mantle, might he be thinking 4-3-3 as a potential formation? If so, I could see Weah as a wing forward and Pulisic (if he was most comfortable playing there) as a right-sided central midfielder that overlapped with him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 13, 2018, 09:30:28 AM
I agree with this, and we'll have to see how they both develop. My inclination is that Weah would be better suited on the wing and Pulisic in the middle, but who knows if they both come good? Alternately, with Earnie Stewart taking the mantle, might he be thinking 4-3-3 as a potential formation? If so, I could see Weah as a wing forward and Pulisic (if he was most comfortable playing there) as a right-sided central midfielder that overlapped with him.

Earnie Stewart is the GM, not the coach, I doubt he would have any say over formations.  Regardless, while it's important to ask these queations about our talent going forward, I think that they are overshadowing the most complete defensive unit that we've had in a long time.  Not since the days of Cherundolo, Bocanegra, and Onyewu have I been this excited about our defensive prospects.

We've always been known for having above average keepers, I think Steffen looks more than capable of being able to continue that trend.  Brooks will continue to get everyday minutes at Wolfsburg (top tier German league).  Miazga is getting first team minutes at Nantes (top tier French league).  CCV just signed a new 5 year contract at Spurs, and given their defender situation (Alderweireld wants out and Vertonghen is already 31) he'll get his shot, plus if you were at the same academy that produced Gareth Bale and Harry Kane why would you leave.  Even a prospect like Palmer-Brown will be taken care of, Man City has spent half a billion dollars on their academy in the last decade, so even if he never plays for the first team its a good place to be.  Yedlin is an everyday player for Newcastle, Robinson is getting minutes at Wigan and could break through next year when he gets back to Everton, even guys like Shaq Moore and Tim Ream are at respectable clubs (Reus, 2nd division in Spain, and Fulham in the Prem although injured right now).  If all those guys continue to develop the way they have been, we might only need to score 1 or 2 goals a game becasue that's a very promising defense, both in quality and depth.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 13, 2018, 07:40:44 PM
Earnie is the GM, but all his interviews lead me to think that he will heavily, heavily consider playstyle. His Dutch roots, from lineage to playing career to administration, will likely influence the type of manager he hires. He may not directly dictate formation, but if he thinks total football is the way to go, it'll be a total football style manager he hires.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 14, 2018, 08:52:54 AM
Earnie is the GM, but all his interviews lead me to think that he will heavily, heavily consider playstyle. His Dutch roots, from lineage to playing career to administration, will likely influence the type of manager he hires. He may not directly dictate formation, but if he thinks total football is the way to go, it'll be a total football style manager he hires.

This is all true, but there are still reasons for worry surrounding the USSF hierarchy right now. 

Earnie is the first GM, and when they created that position, the notion of how much power the GM would have was extremely vague, one of the reasons that it took so long to fill.  They may have adjusted this, and I just missed it, but I believe that Earnie technically does not have hiring/firing power.  The one that actually has that is still Cordiero, and all Earnie can do is make his "recommendation".  If the position of GM is really just soccer adviser to the President, while the President runs the USSF like a business, then we're in for more of the same. 

Also this coaching search is taking a mysteriously long time.  Earnie was hired at the beginning of June, and while nothing was ever going to happen while the WC was going on, that ended 2 months ago, and based on what I've seen, the supposed shortlist is still the same half dozen names that its been since Cordiero won his presidency.  By the time the next friendly happens, we'll be more than a year removed from T+T.  Now that's still more than three full year before the next WC, but as you pointed out earlier, National team managers get significantly less time with their players than clubs do.  We've set ourselves up decently by scheduling a tough set of friendlies through November, but if the new HC isn't there to for them, they won't do nearly as much good. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 14, 2018, 09:40:03 PM
My guess is that they are big game hunting and striking out. I've long been a fan of Peter Vermes, but at this point just put someone you feel confident in into the position.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 14, 2018, 09:52:53 PM
At this point, I'd be okay with Vermes.  He's one of the three names that I've seen listed as favorites, along with Gregg Berhalter, and Tata Martino.  I'm still in favor of Tab Ramos, but I would be heavily against Martino, you can't manage the USMNT if you don't speak English.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 19, 2018, 11:13:30 AM
Americans in Champions League yesterday.  Weston McKennie started, played 90 min and got an assist for Shalke.  If he continues to get minutes and play well for club, expect big things in the future.  Christian Pulisic was a sub and got the game winner for Dortmund, although he himself admitted that it was very lucky.  Tim Weah was not included in PSG's squad.  A decision that I would agree with, too much too soon (playing at Anfield yikes) for a teenager not named Mbpappe.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 19, 2018, 03:04:50 PM
Ronaldo with a completely bogus red card today.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on October 11, 2018, 08:42:23 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Michael Bradley is on the field tonite agaibst Columbia???!!!!  How can anyone over 28 or so even be considered for our player pool?  Pisses me off that he is out there!!!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 11, 2018, 08:46:56 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Michael Bradley is on the field tonite agaibst Columbia???!!!!  How can anyone over 28 or so even be considered for our player pool?  Pisses me off that he is out there!!!

My guess would be Sarachan wanted to give him a swan song, not have his last cap be the T+T debacle. I don't expect to see him Tuesday, and I don't think whoever is named head coach will ever call his number.  Definently wont see him next summer at the Gold Cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on October 11, 2018, 09:28:48 PM
My guess would be Sarachan wanted to give him a swan song, not have his last cap be the T+T debacle. I don't expect to see him Tuesday, and I don't think whoever is named head coach will ever call his number.  Definently wont see him next summer at the Gold Cup.

Well he proved he has no business being out there tonight.  He is such a passive player.  Always had great touch but is completely out of his element playing an attacking position.  Prolly best off playing a 5.  Unfortunately he played there tonight and got abused by the columbian attackers.  Time to move on.  Ruined his career by coming back to US.  What waste, alot of young guys could have benefited from those minutes
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 11, 2018, 09:55:43 PM
Some thoughts on the Colombia game.

I don't know how much rain Tampa got from the hurricane, but I thought it was a little odd watching pre-game (muted of course to avoid Lalas) that they were watering the field, and it definitely showed in the first half.  Ball was skipping everywhere, and that little extra touch you need when it is skipping like that was lacking on the US's part. 

Colombia's first goal, you just have to tip you hat to James.  Yes he turned off Saief too easily, but that was a world class finish.

Acosta's equalizer came off the same late run that Adams used to get the winner against Mexico.  Good things happen when you make a run into the six.  Ball wasn't intended for him, but he made the most of his opportunity.

The most impressive thing about Wood's goal was the pass from Weah.  Put it where only Wood could get it.  Other than the goal, Wood was pretty silent most of the night, but that's what happens when we only play one up top.

Colombia's equalizer was more about Miazga falling asleep and not checking his runner.  Most of the opportunities that Colombia got on the night were off mental mistakes, or lack of communication between Miazga, Brooks, and Steffan, so whatever was wrong there, needs to be addressed immediately.

Falcao's winner was the (im)perfect storm.  Both center back stayed up after the set piece hoping for another chance.  There's no need for this, one should have been dropping back.  Then Robinson is already on a yellow, and any foul there would have led to his dismissal.  Finally Bradley, who hasn't had the legs for a while now, simply watched as his man simply outpaced him to get get an easy finish.

Colombia's fourth is another where you just have to tip your hat.  Even if Steffan makes that save, they had another player right there for the tap in.  Yes more pressure should have been on James so ha can't make that cross, but he has so much skill that it might not have made a difference.

I thought Acosta was the best American out there tonight, but he had to do the work for two since Bradley had his trademark disappearance of 15-20 minutes.

I don't blame Sarachan for giving Bradley the nod.  Nobodies last memory with the National Team should be the biggest disappointment in history, but this better be it for him.  It's looking more and more like Berhalter is going to get the job, and with only 7ish months before the Gold Cup, he shouldn't be taking the time to give Bradley a proper send off.  Howard got one, Bradley got one, Dempsey would have got one if he didn't miss 6 months with an irregular heart beat.  I wound't be at all surprised if his official international retirement announcement come next Wednesday.  I always thought he was overrated, but he at least earned this as a send off.

Overall, we had some nice moments, but there are definitely things to improve upon.  It's good that Columbia brought a full squad so we could better gauge where we are.  Lets see what happens Tuesday, no reason we can't beat Peru, even with a youthful squad.

Oh, and congrats Chitown, Colombia were the better side.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on October 12, 2018, 11:37:13 AM
Some thoughts on the Columbia game.

Dude - Colombia

Also, the US had 5% shot quantity and 100% scoring percentage. Neither of those are any way to go through life.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 12, 2018, 11:54:22 AM
Dude - Colombia

Wow, that's embarrassing.  Noted and corrected

Also, the US had 5% shot quantity and 100% scoring percentage. Neither of those are any way to go through life.

I could have told you something similar was going happen as soon as the line-ups were announced.  Full strength Colombia, going up against a central midfield trio of Green, Acosta, and Bradley. I was somewhat surprised we were even able to create the chances that we did.  Overall I'm not as concerned about us going forward once we're full strength.  It's the defensive errors that worry me.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 13, 2018, 12:07:22 PM
The most impressive thing about Wood's goal was the pass from Weah.  Put it where only Wood could get it.  Other than the goal, Wood was pretty silent most of the night, but that's what happens when we only play one up top.

Colombia was the better team in the first half and for the balance of the game, but agreed that the second USA goal was excellent. Weah put the absolute perfect weight on that ball. Very impressively placed. Wood worked to get to it, but that was really impressive.

This game showed how tough this transition will be. The defense was mostly okay for the better part of 60 minutes, then it came apart at the end. The midfield really struggled to keep possession. I thought both Weah and Saief had impressive moments, but when you take Pulisic, McKinnie, and Adams all out, it's clear there's a step down. I suppose that bodes well for what the future of our midfield may look like, but hard right now. And up front...well, Wood couldn't do much on his own. We really need to find who that next guy will be. Whether Sargent, Novakovich, or someone else, I'd like to see the young guys get more time up there.

Personally, I was glad to see Bradley out there. I get that he's been a divisive figure, but he's been a crucial part of a lot of success. As captain, he was the easy person for people to go after with the T&T debacle, but that was a year-long process that had a lot more to do with what happened at the top than anything that should be placed on any individual player. I could see his experience being valuable in the Gold Cup next year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 13, 2018, 06:38:04 PM
The midfield really struggled to keep possession. I thought both Weah and Saief had impressive moments, but when you take Pulisic, McKinnie, and Adams all out, it's clear there's a step down.

This is why I'm not too concerned with the lack of chances created.  It has also become painfully obvious that we need to play 2 up top, and I think one of those has to be Jozy.  He offers a dimension that no one else does.

The more concerning aspect was the defensive lapses.  Other than CCV, and the possibility of Tim Ream, Erik Palmer Brown, or Shaq Moore getting minutes, that's probably what our back line is going to look like for the next 5-10 years.  A lot of good chemistry can be formed by then, but if the likes of Brooks, Miazga, Robinson, Yedlin, and Steffen struggle, we don't really have any alternative.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 17, 2018, 07:18:05 AM
Pulisic to Chelsea

https://t.co/OjTq5kuF1m?amp=1
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on November 17, 2018, 07:21:33 AM
He hasn't been playing as much this year.  I don't see where he's going to get a lot of time at Chelsea either.  I don't know a great deal about tactics, but I also don't see their style as fitting him.  So he probably goes out on loan somewhere next year?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 17, 2018, 11:04:10 AM
I could see a move to the Prem in the near future, but one, it won't happen in January, and two I honestly hope he doesn't go to a "big six" club.  He wouldn't get the minutes he needs.  No way he starts over Hazard, Pedro, Willian, or even RLC.  I'd much rather see him go to a club that is mid table.  Big enough to have no real threat of relegation, but small enough that he could be a focal part of the offense.  Right now, I'd probably list Bournemouth, Watford, or Burnley, although I think it'd be unlikely.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 18, 2018, 11:31:20 AM
I'd much rather see him go to a club that is mid table.  Big enough to have no real threat of relegation, but small enough that he could be a focal part of the offense.  Right now, I'd probably list Bournemouth, Watford, or Burnley, although I think it'd be unlikely.

If so, it would have to be a loan. No way any mid-table team is paying 40-60 million € for a player, You might be able to get a club like Everton to pay that kind of fee, but of the three you list, none have ever even paid 30M for a player.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 18, 2018, 11:57:34 AM
If so, it would have to be a loan. No way any mid-table team is paying 40-60 million € for a player, You might be able to get a club like Everton to pay that kind of fee, but of the three you list, none have ever even paid 30M for a player.

I wouldn't be opposed to a loan, although I think Dortmund would prefer to sell, and I also am not sure that the price would be to high for them.  Just looking at Bournemouth for example.  They're in the PL, so with the new TV deal, they're getting more and more money.  They also have players that other clubs are looking to buy that could create quite a bit of money for them.  Chelsea continues to be linked with Nathan Ake (currently valued at 25 mil, and you know Chelsea would pay more than that),  a number of clubs are looking at Callum Wilson (currently valued at 15 mil, but if he continues his form (6 goals in 12 games) his price will skyrocket.  His value will also increase due to his call-ups to the 3 lions, as well as his English Nationality).  Now they would have to buy a replacement for Ake, but they already have Josh King lined up to take over Wilsons role.  Again, I doubt that It'll happen, but I don't think it would be because of $$$. 

I'm not sure where Pulisic will end up (although I think it'll be for significantly less than the 70 mil quoted in the article), but my personal preference would be that if he moves to the Prem it would be somewhere where he could at least walk into the 18 man squad, if not the starting 11.  As you point out, Everton would be a very interesting landing spot.  We will see, sorry for the tangent.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 18, 2018, 12:07:55 PM
As you point out, Everton would be a very interesting landing spot.  We will see, sorry for the tangent.

I think it's a worthy topic. Pulisic right now looks like the linchpin of our future, where he ends up at from a club perspective will be important. I'd love for him to become the heir apparent to a top-10 in the world club, but as you note, him playing is most important. I'd rather him be a focal point at a mid-table club for 2-3 years before a move to a top-tier club than to languish on some big club's bench.

Disappointed by the USA/England match. After the early chance from Pulisic, England scored and we never really seemed likely to get back in it. With most of our first choice guys, I was hoping for some better chances. The biggest problem right now though is the continued presence of Sarachan. I don't know who the next manager will be, but for the love of god, just make a freaking hire so we can install a system and start getting these guys into roles they will actually be playing for the foreseeable future.

I understood waiting until after the World Cup, but we just passed the year mark that Sarachan has had the "interim" label on him. A year without a full-time manager when we have so many young guys that will need a structure to play in for the Gold Cup, then Qualifying and beyond? Make the damn hire.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 18, 2018, 12:13:51 PM
I think it's a worthy topic. Pulisic right now looks like the linchpin of our future, where he ends up at from a club perspective will be important. I'd love for him to become the heir apparent to a top-10 in the world club, but as you note, him playing is most important. I'd rather him be a focal point at a mid-table club for 2-3 years before a move to a top-tier club than to languish on some big club's bench.

Disappointed by the USA/England match. After the early chance from Pulisic, England scored and we never really seemed likely to get back in it. With most of our first choice guys, I was hoping for some better chances. The biggest problem right now though is the continued presence of Sarachan. I don't know who the next manager will be, but for the love of god, just make a freaking hire so we can install a system and start getting these guys into roles they will actually be playing for the foreseeable future.

I understood waiting until after the World Cup, but we just passed the year mark that Sarachan has had the "interim" label on him. A year without a full-time manager when we have so many young guys that will need a structure to play in for the Gold Cup, then Qualifying and beyond? Make the damn hire.

This.  So much this.  This x1000.

The only logical explanation is that they already have an agreement with either Vermes, or Berhalter, and were just waiting until their respective clubs were out of the MLS playoffs.  Vermes is in the Western Conference Finals with SKC, and Berhalter just got knocked out of the East with the Crew (but Sarachan had already named the squad so they let him have these last two games).  I would be extremely shocked if one of those two didn't get the job.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Matt Heldt The Milk Man on November 19, 2018, 10:06:42 AM
Ronaldo with a completely bogus red card today.

Ronaldo is a bum. He scores over half of his goals on penalty and he didn't deserve to win the champions league or the Ballon D'or. If it that dickhead Ramos didn't injure Mo Salah and give Karius a concussion, Liverpool would have easily won and should have. Benzema's goal was the most special thing iv'e ever seen in my life and Real Madrid is terrible now. Messi is one thousand times better than Ronaldo and should be beating him in Ballo n D'ors right now, and don't @ me, but Ronaldo ain't even the best player on Juve. Dybala is 1000000000000000000% better.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: NWarsh on November 19, 2018, 11:48:51 AM
Ronaldo is a bum. He scores over half of his goals on penalty and he didn't deserve to win the champions league or the Ballon D'or. If it that dickhead Ramos didn't injure Mo Salah and give Karius a concussion, Liverpool would have easily won and should have. Benzema's goal was the most special thing iv'e ever seen in my life and Real Madrid is terrible now. Messi is one thousand times better than Ronaldo and should be beating him in Ballo n D'ors right now, and don't @ me, but Ronaldo ain't even the best player on Juve. Dybala is 1000000000000000000% better.

Not here for a Messi/Ronaldo debate, but wouldn't the highlighted suggest that Ronaldo is not terrible?  You also mention the final against Liverpool last year, how about the previous 2 years?  I get it, you are a hater, but you have to recognize talent when there is talent.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 19, 2018, 12:02:57 PM
Ronaldo is a bum. He scores over half of his goals on penalty and he didn't deserve to win the champions league or the Ballon D'or. If it that dickhead Ramos didn't injure Mo Salah and give Karius a concussion, Liverpool would have easily won and should have. Benzema's goal was the most special thing iv'e ever seen in my life and Real Madrid is terrible now. Messi is one thousand times better than Ronaldo and should be beating him in Ballo n D'ors right now, and don't @ me, but Ronaldo ain't even the best player on Juve. Dybala is 1000000000000000000% better.

This is one of the most preposterous things Ive ever seen written about soccer, and that is saying something.  I'm a huge Liverpool supporter and saying they should have easily won is silly.

Ronaldo's career percentage of goals from the spot is 15%, Messi's is 13%, so you're argument is trash like the rest of that post.  Dybala is supremely talented but he has a penchant for disappearing, and he can't carry a national team like Ronaldo has for a decade.  He also doesnt have the pace or aerial ability of Ronaldo.  But sure, 10000000% better is accurate.  Especially with the whopping 2 goals he has in Serie A this year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 19, 2018, 12:46:12 PM
At no point over the last decade has Ronaldo ever been worse than the second best player in the world.  This is a fairly well established fact.  The only year since 2006 where he finished worse than second in the Ballon d'Or voting was 2010 when Barcelona won the league and Champions League double, and had all three finalists (Xavi and Iniesta also got a vote boost that year for winning the World Cup).  The only reason that Barca didn't win the treble was because they lost the Copa Del Rey Final to Ronaldo's Real Madrid, with Ronaldo scoring the only goal in a 1-0 win.  The Ronaldo/Messi debate will go on forever, but to say that Ronaldo was worse than 2nd best in the World, and an all time great makes you look like you know nothing about the sport.

I'm a huge Liverpool supporter and saying they should have easily won is silly.

Think they can hang with City this year?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 19, 2018, 03:31:24 PM
Think they can hang with City this year?

If anyone can, its them.  This team is the fulfillment of the vision that Klopp has had and they are so fun to watch, but City is a juggernaut.  Visionary manager and tactician, and more money than God behind the squad, its tough.  Really wish the Reds hadn't dropped the 2 points late against Arsenal, can't give that up if you want to keep with them.  If LFC stay within 5 points or so come late Jan, it could get fun.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 20, 2018, 09:03:03 AM
If anyone can, its them.  This team is the fulfillment of the vision that Klopp has had and they are so fun to watch, but City is a juggernaut.  Visionary manager and tactician, and more money than God behind the squad, its tough.  Really wish the Reds hadn't dropped the 2 points late against Arsenal, can't give that up if you want to keep with them.  If LFC stay within 5 points or so come late Jan, it could get fun.

On any given day, both LFC and MCFC have a good enough XI to beat anyone in the world.  The problem for LFC is that they can't play their best XI all 38 games.  They've added depth nicely with The Ox (get well soon), Keita, Fabinho, and Shaqiri.  The problem is, that I don't think I've ever seen a team with the depth that City has.  They've been without arguably their best player for essentially the entire premier league season, and haven't missed a beat, and their second XI could probably finish top half.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Matt Heldt The Milk Man on November 26, 2018, 10:07:56 AM
On any given day, both LFC and MCFC have a good enough XI to beat anyone in the world.  The problem for LFC is that they can't play their best XI all 38 games.  They've added depth nicely with The Ox (get well soon), Keita, Fabinho, and Shaqiri.  The problem is, that I don't think I've ever seen a team with the depth that City has.  They've been without arguably their best player for essentially the entire premier league season, and haven't missed a beat, and their second XI could probably finish top half.

That's Big facts. My previous post was boneheaded so just disregard that cause I was a bit fed up. Man City has an unbelievably good team in the fact where they don't even have to start Gabriel Jesus. Liverpool made great moves during the summer with their signings, but I just don't know if they would be able to edge out City. I hope it comes close because that would be a great last few weeks to see.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Matt Heldt The Milk Man on November 26, 2018, 10:08:55 AM
Predections:

Who is going to win the champions league this year?

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on November 26, 2018, 10:40:19 AM
Predections:

Who is going to win the champions league this year?

Tough call this year. But I am feeling Dortmund. PSG can beat anyone with their attack too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 26, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
That's Big facts. My previous post was boneheaded so just disregard that cause I was a bit fed up. Man City has an unbelievably good team in the fact where they don't even have to start Gabriel Jesus. Liverpool made great moves during the summer with their signings, but I just don't know if they would be able to edge out City. I hope it comes close because that would be a great last few weeks to see.

Jesus hasn't been playing for two reasons.  1) His return so far this year has been poor.  1 goal, 1 assist in 10 appearances.  2) Aguero has been on fire to start the year.  8 goals, 4 assists in 13 appearances (tied for 1st in the golden boot race).  As for the title chase, as long as it is closer than it was last year, I think most neutral fans will be happy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 26, 2018, 11:42:57 AM
Tough call this year. But I am feeling Dortmund. PSG can beat anyone with their attack too.

As much as clubs prioritize the Champions League, I think Dortmund's primary goal will be the Bundesliga.  Currently 9 points clear of Bayern, and you know they really want to end that 6 year streak Bayern are currently on.  PSG's front three is as good as any in the world, but they always underachieve in the Champions league.  French Ligue 1, 14 wins out of 14, 7 goals conceded.  Champions league, 1 win (against Red Star Belgrade), 2 Napoli draws, and a loss to Liverpool.   

Based off current form, (draw pending), I would predict a Barca, Liverpool, City, and Juve semi, with any of them good enough to win it all.  A lot of teams have enough talent to make a run though, and given that upsets happen over two legs there are probably another half dozen that could.  All-in-all, I would say that it's too early to call.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on November 26, 2018, 11:54:27 AM
As much as clubs prioritize the Champions League, I think Dortmund's primary goal will be the Bundesliga.  Currently 9 points clear of Bayern, and you know they really want to end that 6 year streak Bayern are currently on.  PSG's front three is as good as any in the world, but they always underachieve in the Champions league.  French Ligue 1, 14 wins out of 14, 7 goals conceded.  Champions league, 1 win (against Red Star Belgrade), 2 Napoli draws, and a loss to Liverpool.   

Based off current form, (draw pending), I would predict a Barca, Liverpool, City, and Juve semi, with any of them good enough to win it all.  A lot of teams have enough talent to make a run though, and given that upsets happen over two legs there are probably another half dozen that could.  All-in-all, I would say that it's too early to call.

Atletico could also muck it up too. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 26, 2018, 12:01:05 PM
Atletico could also muck it up too.

Yea, they're part of the half dozen or so that I think have enough talent to make a run.  My heart breaks for them, because they'll never have as much money as Real, or Barca, but they play the soccer version of the "Old Big East".  Stout defending, grinding out victories, give nothing away cheaply.  To lose two champions League Finals to your cross town rivals in a 3 year span is brutal (Imagine back to back Final Four loses to ND).  Their new stadium is also gorgeous BTW. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on November 26, 2018, 04:16:54 PM
Yea, they're part of the half dozen or so that I think have enough talent to make a run.  My heart breaks for them, because they'll never have as much money as Real, or Barca, but they play the soccer version of the "Old Big East".  Stout defending, grinding out victories, give nothing away cheaply.  To lose two champions League Finals to your cross town rivals in a 3 year span is brutal (Imagine back to back Final Four loses to ND).  Their new stadium is also gorgeous BTW. 


And I believe that stadium is hosting the final this year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 26, 2018, 06:52:49 PM
http://www.espn.com/soccer/manchester-city/story/3709783/united-states-and-columbus-crew-goalkeeper-zack-steffen-in-talks-with-manchester-city

I'm not a big fan of Carlisle, but I don't think that he'd report something like this without fairly solid sources.  Almost 0% chance that Steffen would ever make the 1st team, but Man City certainly know what they're doing when it comes to evaluating young talent.  If this is true, the most likely scenario is that he goes out on loan once or twice, before being sold (currently doing something similar with US international Erik Palmer Brown, on loan at Dutch club Breda).  Nonetheless, it would be a great step up for a very promising US international.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on November 28, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
As much as clubs prioritize the Champions League, I think Dortmund's primary goal will be the Bundesliga.  Currently 9 points clear of Bayern, and you know they really want to end that 6 year streak Bayern are currently on.  PSG's front three is as good as any in the world, but they always underachieve in the Champions league.  French Ligue 1, 14 wins out of 14, 7 goals conceded.  Champions league, 1 win (against Red Star Belgrade), 2 Napoli draws, and a loss to Liverpool.   

Based off current form, (draw pending), I would predict a Barca, Liverpool, City, and Juve semi, with any of them good enough to win it all.  A lot of teams have enough talent to make a run though, and given that upsets happen over two legs there are probably another half dozen that could.  All-in-all, I would say that it's too early to call.

Fair point. You don't often see Bayern in this state. My Eintracht boys are narrowly ahead of them too and playing some good ball. I didn't really have the analysis you had in it, just kinda went on gut feeling. I am a little blinded by flashy play sometimes. Mbappe is just so fun to watch.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 29, 2018, 02:19:09 PM
Gregg Berhalter officially named coach of the USMNT.  Was with Columbus Crew.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 29, 2018, 02:38:53 PM
Gregg Berhalter officially named coach of the USMNT.  Was with Columbus Crew.

I hope he does well, but I'm uninspired by this. Not convinced he's the dynamic leader we need. I'm a bigger fan of Vermes, or Reyna as a longer term answer that knows the youth system well. And why did it take so long? They needed what, 13 months to hire a guy who was always right there?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 29, 2018, 02:47:36 PM
I hope he does well, but I'm uninspired by this. Not convinced he's the dynamic leader we need. I'm a bigger fan of Vermes, or Reyna as a longer term answer that knows the youth system well. And why did it take so long? They needed what, 13 months to hire a guy who was always right there?

Agree that it took far too long, but managing country is much different than club,  I'm going to withhold judgement until at least the Gold Cup.  Anything less than a Finals appearance and I'll be concerned.  I also doubt that he'll be around for 2026, which is ultimately what we should be building towards (I personally think that Qatar is going to be a sh ! t show for reasons that have nothing to do with the sport).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 29, 2018, 02:53:17 PM
I don't know, at least under Gulati it was always a two cycle plan. Arena got two. Bradley got extended and was in the second when fired, same for Klinsmann. I think one cycle is always enough. I guess for now up just wait & hope you're right.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 29, 2018, 03:00:43 PM
Arena got the (deserved) extension because of the quarterfinal appearance in '02.  Bradley didn't make it through his second cycle, and neither did Klinsmann.  I certainly hope that we have learned our lesson.  I also think that the job will be very desirable prior to the 2026 WC.  Hosting, combined with the fact that all of our current young talent will be in their prime, you'd think we'd be able to swing for the fences with a manager at that point.

Either way, 2026 is a long way off, and I can now start looking forward to this summer with all three group stage games, plus the final within reasonable travel distance.  Has the potential to be a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on November 29, 2018, 10:44:05 PM
Two things

#1 - The Berhalter decision is garbage. His teams aren't good at anything.

https://www.lowedownstats.com/team/columbus-crew-sc/

#2 - My site now has Champions League stats. yeah baby let's talk some crap now.

https://www.lowedownstats.com/league/ucl/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 30, 2018, 09:56:54 AM
Two things

#1 - The Berhalter decision is garbage. His teams aren't good at anything.

https://www.lowedownstats.com/team/columbus-crew-sc/

#2 - My site now has Champions League stats. yeah baby let's talk some crap now.

https://www.lowedownstats.com/league/ucl/

I'm a little bit confused by your website.  The link you provided shows Columbus as  20ish in most categories.  Yet if you view the league as a whole (https://www.lowedownstats.com/league/mls/)  they are both near the top of the table and the bottom.  There are also 32 teams listed.  If you entered some data as "Columbus", and some as Columbus Crew SC", wouldn't that cause both sets of data to be incomplete, and therefore inaccurate?  You seem to have a similar problem in most your league tables (although to a lesser extent).  Am I just reading this wrong?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on November 30, 2018, 10:13:38 AM
I'm a little bit confused by your website.  The link you provided shows Columbus as  20ish in most categories.  Yet if you view the league as a whole (https://www.lowedownstats.com/league/mls/)  they are both near the top of the table and the bottom.  There are also 32 teams listed.  If you entered some data as "Columbus", and some as Columbus Crew SC", wouldn't that cause both sets of data to be incomplete, and therefore inaccurate?  You seem to have a similar problem in most your league tables (although to a lesser extent).  Am I just reading this wrong?

No, you're not wrong. There's a bug on the website that popped up after we introduced the Champions League. It required a little bit of extra effort to have a team like Man City in multiple leagues (EPL / CL), and it created the team page issue.

DAMMIT!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 30, 2018, 10:18:07 AM
No worries, I agree that Berhalter is far from the sexiest hire ever, I'm just excited that they finally have a full time coach.  Your data is usually really good, and I can't wait to see the updates when you get that bug worked out.   ;D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on December 02, 2018, 08:36:45 PM
No worries, I agree that Berhalter is far from the sexiest hire ever, I'm just excited that they finally have a full time coach.  Your data is usually really good, and I can't wait to see the updates when you get that bug worked out.   ;D

Okay, fixed. Here's my gripe with Berhalter.

Here's the Columbus Crew Aggregate Rank over the past four years, with offense and defense rankings.

2018: 16 (#21 offense; #10 defense)
2017: 8 (#13 offense; #6 defense)
2016: 12 (#5 offense; #16 defense)
2015: 8 (#3 offense; #12 defense)

In several years, they overperformed the stats. yay. That's what I'm talking myself into. Berhalter is good enough to get results despite poor stats.

On the other hand, does any of that scream, "success" to you? Shouldn't his teams have been good at things like offense or defense?

I haven't been this annoyed about a hire since Buzz. That's what else I'm talking myself into. Buzz got results.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on December 03, 2018, 06:06:32 AM
That's why the hire doesn't excite me. I'm just not convinced he has the schemes to compete at the highest level.

Totally off topic, did anyone see the finish of the Merseyside Derby yesterday? Liverpool had a ridiculously improbable miracle in the 6th minutes of 4 minutes of added time. Felt like Fergie time. Completely mishit ball careens high into the air, bounces off the top of the crossbar (I actually think Pickford may have slightly tapped it back toward play), bounces off the crossbar a second time, then falls right in front of goal where Divock Origi heads it in simple as could be. One of the most bizarre winning bounces you'll ever see.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 03, 2018, 06:09:34 AM
That's why the hire doesn't excite me. I'm just not convinced he has the schemes to compete at the highest level.

Totally off topic, did anyone see the finish of the Merseyside Derby yesterday? Liverpool had a ridiculously improbable miracle in the 6th minutes of 4 minutes of added time. Felt like Fergie time. Completely mishit ball careens high into the air, bounces off the top of the crossbar (I actually think Pickford may have slightly tapped it back toward play), bounces off the crossbar a second time, then falls right in front of goal where Divock Origi heads it in simple as could be. One of the most bizarre winning bounces you'll ever see.

That was ridiculous. Looked to me like pickford hit it slightly forward, then the crazy bounce.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on December 03, 2018, 07:45:49 AM
That's why the hire doesn't excite me. I'm just not convinced he has the schemes to compete at the highest level.

Totally off topic, did anyone see the finish of the Merseyside Derby yesterday? Liverpool had a ridiculously improbable miracle in the 6th minutes of 4 minutes of added time. Felt like Fergie time. Completely mishit ball careens high into the air, bounces off the top of the crossbar (I actually think Pickford may have slightly tapped it back toward play), bounces off the crossbar a second time, then falls right in front of goal where Divock Origi heads it in simple as could be. One of the most bizarre winning bounces you'll ever see.


Turned it off to watch the Packer game...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 03, 2018, 08:20:15 AM
I thought both derbies on Sunday were excellent.  I haven't met a Gunner who hasn't been impressed by Emery, and while the game wasn't a master class in defending, it had the perfect balance of scoring and chippy-ness that you'd expect. 

Liverpool really needed all three points in the Merseyside derby if they're going to keep pace with City.  Extremely fluky goal, but at the end of the day all that matters is the three points.  I personally think Klopp was extremely lucky not to get punished for running on the field like that.  I think it is similar to the Buzz on WVU logo thing.  Liverpool fans will love him for it, Everton fans will hate him for it.  Neutral fans will say that he probably shouldn't have done it, but did the right thing in apologizing right away.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 11, 2018, 04:21:37 PM
Good day for Spurs and the Liverpuds.

Bad day for Inter and Napoli, both headed to Europa.  Serie A not looking so hot, minus Juve.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 18, 2018, 10:08:03 AM
Jose officially sacked by Man U.  Timing makes sense, right after the Champions League draw, give the new manager time with the squad before the fixtures.  It'll be interesting to see who they target this summer.  Poch supposedly linked, but Real also want him and if Spurs have to give him up, I'm sure they would prefer to lose him to a Spanish club rather than a Prem rival.  Zidane has said he doesn't want the job, Simeone has said he doesn't want the job.  Doubt they're goiong to go with a club legend like Carrick, Butt, or Giggs.  Name I think they should look at, but probably won't, is Paulo Fonseca.  He's got a win % north of 75% in the Ukrainian League, and has a decent amount of Champions League experience, and most importantly, plays an attacking style.  Whomever they get has to be an offense first guy after 2.5 years of Jose.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: TinyTimsLittleBrother on December 18, 2018, 10:17:04 AM
They aren’t hiring a guy from the Ukraine to manage United. United’s problems run way deeper than the manager. There structure is a mess which is why I doubt someone like Ponch would go there unless significant changes are made. It’s just easier to succeed at Tottenham right now - and it shouldn’t be.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 18, 2018, 10:25:58 AM
I agree that the hierarchy is completely screwed up right now, starting with Woodward, but I don't think they would disregard someone just because they're currently managing in the Ukraine.  He's gotten them into the round of 16 in the Champions League, won a domestic double and a domestic treble, and has had success in Portugal as well.  Considering none of the "big name" managers have shown any interest, I think that  he should be someone that at least gets a call about the job.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 18, 2018, 03:18:40 PM
Conte might be interested, but would Utd want another Chelsea reject?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUEng92 on December 18, 2018, 06:21:07 PM
I grew up in the lean years as a Packer and Cub fan.  I was a fan for more than 2 decades before either won anything.  I didn't start watching soccer until the last decade, so for once from the start I got to choose a winner to follow in MUFC.  Then it all goes to hell. 

Maybe it's me...just in reverse this time
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 18, 2018, 10:10:05 PM
I grew up in the lean years as a Packer and Cub fan.  I was a fan for more than 2 decades before either won anything.  I didn't start watching soccer until the last decade, so for once from the start I got to choose a winner to follow in MUFC.  Then it all goes to hell. 

Maybe it's me...just in reverse this time

Seeing United being decent but not great is satisfying for me. I’m a Liverpool fan, but I’ve never developed the intense animosity for most of the other clubs, save Chelsea and Arsenal depending.

But United, man their supporters in the US. The Chicago RedEye morning paper had a feature on United fans in Chicago when they played at Soldier Field a couple years ago and almost every story was some terribly shallow front runner anecdote. Not even mentioning fav players that hooked them (My love for LFC was a direct result of Michael Owen obsession and becoming drawn in).

Just funny the same people that would make fun of Yankees/Lakers/Cowboys fans in the Midwest have no issue when it comes to United.

VERY interesting to see if the club can swallow their pride, examine the fudnamental issues and realize its more than just a manager or flashy high profile signing needed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 19, 2018, 08:29:15 AM
I grew up in the lean years as a Packer and Cub fan.  I was a fan for more than 2 decades before either won anything.  I didn't start watching soccer until the last decade, so for once from the start I got to choose a winner to follow in MUFC.  Then it all goes to hell. 

Maybe it's me...just in reverse this time

They'll be back.  It may take some time, but there is too much money there for them not to right the ship at some point. 

This just goes to show how hard it is to replace a legend like Fergie.  I think it was a mistake to let him pick his own successor, and looking back, David Moyes was an extremely poor choice.  Then going with LVG was questionable because they were clearly looking for a long term guy, and he had never spent 3 full seasons with a club outside of the Eredivise.  Then I honestly believe that Jose was a panic hire.  The way things ended with him at Chesea, he should not have gotten a job that high profile within 5 months.  But their "noisy neighbors" were bringing in (IMO) the best tactician in the world, so in a panic, you only look at guys that have had success against him.  Klopp wasn't going anywhere at the time, and Jose was available. 

One interesting name that has already come up, that I didn't think of, is Laurent Blanc, he could be a good fit.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 02, 2019, 08:39:55 AM
Pulisic to Chelsea.  #Donedeal.  64 million.  Will finish this season on loan at Dortmund and make the move in the summer.  From a Chelsea perspective, it makes sense to deal in the winter as they may be facing an upcoming transfer ban.  Makes slightly less sense from a Dortmund perspective as I think they could have gotten more for him in the summer, although with that said, it's hard to turn down that kind of money for someone that had essentially turned into just a rotation player.

It'll be interesting to see who's at Chelsea next year, as I think this indicates that Hazard will finally get that move to Real that he wants.  Cesc, Willain, and Pedro are all 30+, and Morata has been a bust thus far.  Their midfield is solid with Kante, Jorginho, and Kovacic, but going forward, they'll have some question marks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on January 02, 2019, 08:41:29 AM
He only had one year left on his contract.  That's a pretty hefty amount to pay for him given that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on January 02, 2019, 08:47:24 AM
From a USMNT fan perspective, this move makes me nervous. Chelsea have shown no desire to develop young players, and have had a revolving door of managers.

From a rival fan perspective, I'm glad Liverpool didn't drop that much coin for a player who would be surplus to needs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 02, 2019, 08:50:26 AM
It's a lot, but I try to look at the transfer fee divided by the expected number of quality years left.  For example, 100 mil for an already 33 Ronaldo is a crazy amount of money.  Even considering that he's one of the greatest ever, you're going to get, at most, 3 years.  So 33 mil per year plus wages.  Pulisic is only 20, so he's likely facing at least a decade of production.  Just over 6 mil a year plus wages is a lot easier pill to swallow.  Throw in that his jersey's are going to sell  like crazy, and you now have the biggest superstar in one of the largest untapped markets and it' a good business deal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on January 02, 2019, 04:36:46 PM
From a USMNT fan perspective, this move makes me nervous. Chelsea have shown no desire to develop young players, and have had a revolving door of managers.

From a rival fan perspective, I'm glad Liverpool didn't drop that much coin for a player who would be surplus to needs.

Sounds like Hazard may be off to Madrid this summer, while Willian and Pedro are in their early 30s. He'll definitely get his chances. Of course, with Chelsea, if he isn't able to produce, they'll likely replace him or loan him. Really hope it works out, but I do understand the nervousness.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 03, 2019, 08:09:04 AM
All right Liverpool fans, if The Reds get all three points today, how confident are you about winning the league?

Curious from a neutral perspective.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on January 03, 2019, 08:40:26 AM
All right Liverpool fans, if The Reds get all three points today, how confident are you about winning the league?

Curious from a neutral perspective.

Long way to go, but 9 pts over Spurs and 10 over City would make me feel prettay prettay good. I'd take a draw in a heartbeat. They can't keep this form going over the course of 38 games, so the cushion would be nice.

I have seen a lot made of the prior title challenges. 13-14 was a high wire act, 08-09 was a final, desperate push at the end. This feels different. Far more solid at the back, and have proven they can grind out results.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 03, 2019, 08:51:30 AM
Long way to go, but 9 pts over Spurs and 10 over City would make me feel prettay prettay good. I'd take a draw in a heartbeat. They can't keep this form going over the course of 38 games, so the cushion would be nice.

I have seen a lot made of the prior title challenges. 13-14 was a high wire act, 08-09 was a final, desperate push at the end. This feels different. Far more solid at the back, and have proven they can grind out results.

VVD is the best center back in the prem right now.  I still think you overpaid for Alisson, but there was no way a title push could happen with Karius or Mignolet.  Also (not related to defense) but Shaqiri may be the best bargain of last summers transfer window.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: GGGG on January 03, 2019, 01:56:39 PM
After today, Liverpool has one road game against a top 6 opponent.  (United)  Home games against Spurs and Chelsea.  They are done with City and Arsenal.

It is by no means wrapped up with a win today, but a nine point lead at this point would be tough to overcome.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 03, 2019, 04:08:48 PM
After today, Liverpool has one road game against a top 6 opponent.  (United)  Home games against Spurs and Chelsea.  They are done with City and Arsenal.

It is by no means wrapped up with a win today, but a nine point lead at this point would be tough to overcome.
It was either going to be 4 ,7 or 10, but ladies and gents, we have a title race. After last year this is great news. Admit I was rooting for city just because it means a title race.  Will certainly be a lot more fun down the stretch now.

Edit: Completely forgot about Spurs, Sultan is right.  I've just had the idea that it's going to be either City or Liverpool for a while now.  Think Spurs lack of depth will catch up with them soon, especially if they advance in the Champions League.

Edit #2: People say Football is a game of inches, well futbol is a game of 1.12 centimeters.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 03, 2019, 10:56:05 PM
After today, Liverpool has one road game against a top 6 opponent.  (United)  Home games against Spurs and Chelsea.  They are done with City and Arsenal.

It is by no means wrapped up with a win today, but a nine point lead at this point would be tough to overcome.

City only has 1 top 6 road game too, at old Trafford.   Host spurs in April,  and goons and Chelsea in consecutive weeks in feb.

Spurs have the toughest road slate.  At city, chelsea and Anfield, Utd at Wembley and maybe goons at the new WHL.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on January 08, 2019, 02:05:57 PM
Why Liverpool won't win:

They are only allowing 0.57 gpg. This is unsustainable. The defensive scoring percentage is #1 in the league at 21%. This is also unsustainable. The defense will regress to the mean.

Why Man City won't win:

Liverpool have a lead in the standings. Also, Man City is worst in the EPL at defensive SoT%. Seriously, they rank #20. That's bad for any team, let alone a title contending team.

Why Spurs won't win:

Spurs. Also, they rank #1 at offensive scoring percentage and #2 at defensive scoring percentage. *when* Spurs don't win the league, it'll be because either of these regress to the mean.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on January 11, 2019, 01:30:05 PM
Congrats to MU goalkeeper Luis Barraza, taken 12th overall in the MLS draft today.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on February 02, 2019, 05:13:38 PM
So...two games into the Berhalter era and two wins. Surprisingly only the third USMNT coach ever to accomplish that feat, though these were friendlies. Still, better to get the results than not.

These were MLS player rosters. The two guys that jumped out most were Djordji Mihailovic and Sebastian Lletget. Mihailovic was excellent in both games, while Lletget came off the bench late today and tallied a goal and assist against Costa Rica. Great story for him, he suffered a Lis Franc injury at the same stadium in a USMNT game last year and had this date circled as his targeted return date. Coming back and playing as well as he did was excellent. If only it had been a qualifier that punched our ticket to Qatar, someone would be writing the movie script already.

Good ball movement and control overall. The players seemed more ambitious than I'm accustomed to. Good play to release runners on through balls and insure we were more often than not going downhill. I'll be interested to see how that works against full international squads and with our full roster. I'm not sure we have the personnel for such a downhill, attacking approach (especially what we saw the last 30 minutes against Costa Rica).

What he does with the defense is interesting. It's a 4-3-3, but Berhalter likes to push one of the defenders up into the midfield to give more of an attacking 3-4-3 look. Again, it worked in these games, but I'm afraid more seasoned teams will be better at finding the gaps. It also requires having defenders that have the pace of fullbacks and physicality of centerbacks. That's not always an easy ask. It also requires a fullback that is as comfortable playing as a central mid as he is at the back.

All in all, a successful Camp Cupcake, a few new names (Zack Steffen also looked good when called upon) and fine results. I think what I liked most was that the managerial approach actually looked creative. It also looked like when were were experimenting, it was purposeful experimentation. It wasn't the stalwart approach of Arena or the helter-skelter Klinsmann or the bunker Bob. I have no idea how it will work, but I think the next couple years will at the least be interesting.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on February 24, 2019, 10:13:51 AM
As much as United Liverpool is always hyped, I gotta say, that was a letdown. Hoping for a better game in the league cup final.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 24, 2019, 01:33:51 PM
As much as United Liverpool is always hyped, I gotta say, that was a letdown. Hoping for a better game in the league cup final.

Dont know about a better game, but holy crap.  Kepa vs Sarri. Kepa refuses to come off.  Then kepa lets in 4/5 in the shootout.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on February 24, 2019, 01:39:03 PM
Dont know about a better game, but holy crap.  Kepa vs Sarri. Kepa refuses to come off.  Then kepa lets in 4/5 in the shootout.

That was by far the most entertaining part of that final. If Sarri doesn't get top 4 I think he's gone. Overall disappointing games considering 4 of UKs elite were involved.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 24, 2019, 02:01:24 PM
Chelsea is an absolute sh!tshow right now. Roman not allowed in the UK, significant transfer ban, Sarri has completely lost control of that locker room, Hazard is going to be gone.

Honestly it’s pretty entertaining stuff. Chelsea could be in a world of hurt over the next couple of seasons.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BookerSil on February 25, 2019, 06:29:13 AM
I don't care much for Chelsea, but I love Hazard. He's gotta go, man. He's wasting his best years in Chelsea.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 25, 2019, 07:23:42 AM
So excited for the future of the USMNT to go to that crapshow
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on March 07, 2019, 09:58:33 AM
Here are the revised UCL Rankings after the quarterfinals are set.

https://www.lowedownstats.com/league/ucl/

1. Man City
2. Bayern
3. Atleti

The site also has 2019 MLS and Liga MX.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 07, 2019, 10:13:53 AM
Interesting since the quarterfinals aren't set yet.  I'm very much looking forward to the second leg of the Liverpool v Bayern tie.  It will also please me greatly to see Ronaldo get knocked out.  Almost as much as watching Real and PSG collapse worse than Marquette.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 07, 2019, 11:37:13 AM
Interesting since the quarterfinals aren't set yet.  I'm very much looking forward to the second leg of the Liverpool v Bayern tie.  It will also please me greatly to see Ronaldo get knocked out.  Almost as much as watching Real and PSG collapse worse than Marquette.

Surprised ManU hasn't signed Ole to a permanent contract by now.  That was half an academy team that took down PSG.
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: Matt Heldt The Milk Man on March 07, 2019, 12:54:20 PM
Like everyone else noted, Freddy Adu has been given his chances. I'm not saying Freddy may not be successful in a different system, but with Bob at the helm, Adu doesn't have a good situation for his talents.

If it really is a club issue with Chandler, and not his possible move to joining the German national team, I'm okay with his exclusion.

Teal Bunbury should definitely have been given a roster spot over Wondolowski.

I can't believe they only brought Bedoya in once Feilhaber got injured. Bedoya is playing much better than Rogers currently.

I think we need to move on from Onyewu. He hasn't shown much of anything as of late. I would have preferred getting someone like Omar Gonzalez some experience.

I could also make a case for Brad Davis or Mixx Diskerud over Kljestan in the midfield. I don't think Sacha has ever produced much for the national team.

Edit: Basically, I think the US has to start getting younger sooner rather than later. The same core of players that carried us in the last two World Cups are going to be nearly useless come 2014


DAD?
Title: Re: US vs. Spain
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 07, 2019, 01:57:35 PM

DAD?

Why you hoopalooping?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 07, 2019, 02:10:23 PM
Surprised ManU hasn't signed Ole to a permanent contract by now.  That was half an academy team that took down PSG.

Lets not get out of pocket.  I think it rather speaks to what a terrible job Mourinho had been doing. Man Utd is still stocked with talent like they always have been.  The only players missing from the squad yesterday compared to the starters that they fielded against Liverpool a bit back were Pogba, Mata, and Herrera.  Oh I guess Lingard too.   You have starters missing because of injury and you're still sending out national team regulars in their place.  This wasn't some plucky squad of nobodies.

Ole has been doing a fantastic job though.  No doubt in that
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 15, 2019, 09:14:55 AM
Interesting Champions League draw this morning.  The highlight match-up will most certainly be Barca v United, but I think that Ajax v Juve could be more interesting.  Ajax has a ton of young talent and Juve has a ton of old talent.  Based on their current form, I would expect City to beat Spurs, but if they're playing at the New White Hart Lane anything could happen.  I admittedly know very little about Porto, but Liverpool beat them 5-0 last year in the round of 16, so I would expect Liverpool to go through again.  City v Juve, and Barca v Liverpool would be my prediction for the semis.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 15, 2019, 12:42:05 PM
Interesting Champions League draw this morning.  The highlight match-up will most certainly be Barca v United, but I think that Ajax v Juve could be more interesting.  Ajax has a ton of young talent and Juve has a ton of old talent.  Based on their current form, I would expect City to beat Spurs, but if they're playing at the New White Hart Lane anything could happen.  I admittedly know very little about Porto, but Liverpool beat them 5-0 last year in the round of 16, so I would expect Liverpool to go through again.  City v Juve, and Barca v Liverpool would be my prediction for the semis.

Spurs and UAE City play each other three times in two weeks.  A PL match sandwiched between the CL ties.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 15, 2019, 12:48:12 PM
Spurs and UAE City play each other three times in two weeks.  A PL match sandwiched between the CL ties.

The EPL match is actually the weekend after their second CL game. Both in Manchester.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on April 18, 2019, 09:35:46 AM
hey folks - gonna pimp my stuff some more

Champions League Stats
https://www.lowedownstats.com/league/ucl/

1. Barcelona
3. Liverpool
4. Ajax
7. Tottenham

The website now has eight different leagues, including English League Championship, EPL, Ligue 1, Bundesliga, Serie A, La Liga, Liga MX, and MLS. Most of those have data back to 2015. It also has the last Men's World Cup and this year's Champions League. Also, the site is ugly and it has a dearth of articles, but the data is there!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 07, 2019, 06:03:53 PM
Well you just hate to see that. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer squad...

What an epic choke job by Barca. Messi just cannot get it done on the biggest stages.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on May 07, 2019, 06:11:17 PM
And that final goal was genius.    I don't remember seeing an entire side getting caught so off guard.    Perfect play by Liverpool.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 07, 2019, 06:27:43 PM
Well you just hate to see that. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer squad...

What an epic choke job by Barca. Messi just cannot get it done on the biggest stages.

Klopp really made some nice adjustments at halftime.  Messi was extremely dangerous in the first half, but then kind of vanished as they bottled him up.  That being said, he wasn't really pressing much at all in the second half.

Wijnaldum...what a super sub.  Beyond the 2 goals, he snatched the ball off a Barca boot at the edge of the 18 with green in front of them, I literally almost yelled "S***".

TAA continues to develop into a world class RB.  What a brilliant heady play.

And Origi, my god.  What a finish on the 4th and what a masterful controlled performance without Salah or Firmino.  This team is special.

Klopp was always my dream manager as an LFC supporter, but thought it was just a trendy Twitter pipe dream.  My expectations and excitement since his appointment have been completely justified.  3 European finals, an incredible run in the EPL this year, and even better, a roadmap for continued future success.  Just so much fun.

Ajax-Liverpool would be an AMAZING final. Either way, really hope to see some silverware finally return to Anfield.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 07, 2019, 06:46:16 PM
Well you just hate to see that. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer squad...

What an epic choke job by Barca. Messi just cannot get it done on the biggest stages.

I'm guessing you're blinded by recency bias because the bolded is an absurd statement disproved by reality. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 07, 2019, 06:49:54 PM
I'm guessing you're blinded by recency bias because the bolded is an absurd statement disproved by reality.

I actually did a bit of research before posting that.

His record in finals isn’t great, for Argentina or Barca. Yea he has 3 CL trophies and has scored a ton of goal in Champions League play, but his performances in finals have been sub par. Think he has one goal in finals appearances?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 07, 2019, 07:31:47 PM
I actually did a bit of research before posting that.

His record in finals isn’t great, for Argentina or Barca. Yea he has 3 CL trophies and has scored a ton of goal in Champions League play, but his performances in finals have been sub par. Think he has one goal in finals appearances?

If you're the type who equates scoring a goal to "performing" in a final, it will be a short discussion.

Club level, Messi has won more titles than every single player in the game's history except, what, two guys? He's actually won four Champions League titles which means your research was missing a piece.

Country level, Messi was absolutely dynamite in Copa America 2015 and 2016. It's not his fault alone they lost on penalties twice. He was superb against Germany in 2014. He put three golden chances on Higuain's platter.

I'm unsure if the last part of your post is a genuine question or a thought that trailed off. Surely you're aware of his Champions League Finals exploits if you did a bit of research.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 08, 2019, 04:04:36 PM
Spurs! Let's unnatural carnal knowledgeing go!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 08, 2019, 04:04:49 PM
OMFG.
#COYS
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 08, 2019, 04:11:07 PM
Man I love football.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 08, 2019, 04:14:32 PM
LUCASSSSSSSSSSSS!

COYMFS!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 08, 2019, 04:24:09 PM
Wow
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 08, 2019, 04:59:38 PM
2 English clubs against near impossible odds, both without their talismanic leading scorers, both climb mountains in the last 40 min.  Unreal
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 08, 2019, 05:08:10 PM
Imagine not liking football.

The US needs to do something to make the MLS a viable league. The competition doesn’t even compare.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 08, 2019, 05:21:55 PM
Imagine not liking football.

The US needs to do something to make the MLS a viable league. The competition doesn’t even compare.

I'm afraid until they adopt promo/relegation, it will never happen.  MLS controls the clubs, distributes players, subsidizes salaries, its inorganic.   The MLS has come so far, and its pretty remarkable, but as it stands, it will never get much higher on a global comparative scale than it is and it will remain a cushy salary for aging European stars and an easy paycheck for guys who just aren't quite good enough to jump to a top Euro league.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 08, 2019, 05:29:11 PM
Imagine not liking football.

The US needs to do something to make the MLS a viable league. The competition doesn’t even compare.

Volleyball and stuff.

COYS!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on May 08, 2019, 06:14:05 PM
Absolute madness, a bonkers two days of futbol!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 07, 2019, 07:29:37 AM
Women's World Cup kicking off today and the Gold Cup coming next Saturday. The USMNT wasn't good against Jamaica and, other than Pulisic, seems pretty underwhelming. So they'll probably do just enough to come up short, making a final and losing to Mexico.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 07, 2019, 09:56:05 AM
Women's World Cup kicking off today and the Gold Cup coming next Saturday. The USMNT wasn't good against Jamaica and, other than Pulisic, seems pretty underwhelming. So they'll probably do just enough to come up short, making a final and losing to Mexico.

But the US U-20s are in the quarters and there is a TON to be excited about on that squad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on June 07, 2019, 01:17:02 PM
What’s the reason Sargent was left off both squads?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 07, 2019, 02:04:16 PM
What’s the reason Sargent was left off both squads?

Prime example of the continued dysfunction and lack of a cohesive plan within US Soccer.  He was thought to be ready for the USMNT given his 7 caps and his potential, so it was pretty clear he was intended to be on the Gold Cup roster, hence him not playing with the U-20s.  But then Berhalter decided he didn't play enough during the Bundesliga season and left him home.  Including Tyler Boyd and Jonathan Lewis above him is absolute insanity.  Sure he might not be peak sharpness, but this is one of your figured future stars and you're passing up this opportunity for training and exposure for him.  Baffling.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 13, 2019, 10:42:03 AM
This response seemed more appropriate here:

There is a lot of "this is the way we do things here" mentality, IMO, with how some of US Soccer operates.  US Soccer feels like a division of a successful company, but that division is getting destroyed against its competition but they refuse to adapt or mirror whats giving the competition the edge, and stick to their established way of doing things.  Both the structure and decision making is part of the same toxic tree.

I think this is well stated, and I think the structure and decision making is linked. There's a US belief that the way we do things is fine. Bringing in Klinsmann was viewed as a home run hire from the top. Some were skeptical from the start, but on paper it's a big, splashy move.

What comes next? Gulati forces Klinsmann to adhere to the US way of doing things. If you're going to go for flashy change, then go for it. Instead, it was a half measure. You get flash without substance.

Then we finally start embracing some of those development ideas. Players going overseas early gives us what appears to be a wealth of young talent like Pulisic, McKinnie, Adams, Miazga, Sargent, etc. We see plans for stateside player & coaching development. And then we pick a former Arena assistant from the MLS to lead them. Substance without flash.

Whether it's having a spark without tinder or tinder without a spark, neither will lead to an explosion of results. The structure is too antiquated & too slow to adapt and the decisions that result from that have continued to come up short. I see two paths to success. Stick with the old American development and get coaches like Arena & Bradley who make chicken soup out of chicken bones, or be willing to fail and allow a revolution from the bottom to the top. That type of revolution is why the women are so successful.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 13, 2019, 10:50:11 AM
That type of revolution is why the women are so successful.

By how is the structure of the women's system markedly different than that of the men's? They seem almost identical to me, expect the men have nudged closer to a European model with MLS club-sponsored academies and the like.

I see the woman's success far more a result of cultural/societal factors than anything systemic. Americans have embraced and encouraged women in team sports far earlier and far more substantively than pretty much any other country, with a couple of exceptions in a couple of sports (volleyball, perhaps?).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 13, 2019, 12:38:06 PM
By how is the structure of the women's system markedly different than that of the men's? They seem almost identical to me, expect the men have nudged closer to a European model with MLS club-sponsored academies and the like.

I see the woman's success far more a result of cultural/societal factors than anything systemic. Americans have embraced and encouraged women in team sports far earlier and far more substantively than pretty much any other country, with a couple of exceptions in a couple of sports (volleyball, perhaps?).

If the USMNT is a failing division of a company, the USWNT is a startup with tons of venture capital infused into it in an attractive market.

The US can throw millions at the mens team, but they are still running a race from behind globally.  Even if they don't have quite as much money, these countries have been developing talent and teams cohesively for 50+ years or longer.  The women, as I mentioned in a previous post, is a relatively new space with this only being the 8th WC ever.  And the US was a player from the beginning, largely because, as Brewcity mentioned, the US is a far more receptive and robust supporter and enabler of women's sports on a large scale.  So instead of trying to play catch up, other countries are trying to replicate what the US has done.  A healthy budget and fantastic marketing doesn't hurt. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 13, 2019, 12:57:42 PM
The US can throw millions at the mens team, but they are still running a race from behind globally.  Even if they don't have quite as much money, these countries have been developing talent and teams cohesively for 50+ years or longer. 

Excuses, excuses.
Pablo Escobar threw a bunch of money at the Colombian soccer program in the late 80s and within a matter of years turned it from a program that had qualified for one World Cup in its history into one that's consistently been ranked in the top 10-15 in the world. It's been 25 years since the U.S. hosted the World Cup and the program isn't significantly better off today than it was then.

Croatia didn't exist as a country 30 years ago and today they're 5th in the FIFA world rankings.

The notion that the U.S. can't be good at soccer because it's bound by the history of 50 years ago is nonsense.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Warrior Code on June 13, 2019, 01:17:21 PM
Forgive me if this question is stupid, but as someone who likes soccer but doesn't follow it much I don't know the answer: is the Champions League a bigger deal than the Premier League? I know Liverpool was close to both, so was the Champions League a "consolation prize" for finishing second in the standings? Or would that have been the ultimate goal all along?

The competition structure in European soccer is so different than the sports here in America -- we have one championship (Super Bowl, Stanley Cup, etc.) that is the clear-cut goal. European soccer has several cups of varying importance.

I'll hang up and wait for your answer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on June 13, 2019, 01:23:46 PM
Forgive me if this question is stupid, but as someone who likes soccer but doesn't follow it much I don't know the answer: is the Champions League a bigger deal than the Premier League? I know Liverpool was close to both, so was the Champions League a "consolation prize" for finishing second in the standings? Or would that have been the ultimate goal all along?

The competition structure in European soccer is so different than the sports here in America -- we have one championship (Super Bowl, Stanley Cup, etc.) that is the clear-cut goal. European soccer has several cups of varying importance.

I'll hang up and wait for your answer.

Champions League is generally a bigger deal as it has all the "champions" of top European leagues ("champions" because it's more than that--e.g., the top 4 from the Premier League qualify), but it's not necessarily a unanimous opinion. Some may prefer the Premier League title because it's the reward for a full season of work and comes over your top rivals.

It's somewhat akin to a college football team finishing 2nd in their conference but winning the CFP.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 13, 2019, 01:25:28 PM
Forgive me if this question is stupid, but as someone who likes soccer but doesn't follow it much I don't know the answer: is the Champions League a bigger deal than the Premier League? I know Liverpool was close to both, so was the Champions League a "consolation prize" for finishing second in the standings? Or would that have been the ultimate goal all along?

The competition structure in European soccer is so different than the sports here in America -- we have one championship (Super Bowl, Stanley Cup, etc.) that is the clear-cut goal. European soccer has several cups of varying importance.

I'll hang up and wait for your answer.

TBH it really depends on the team.  I know Liverpool fans that would have gladly traded the Champions League for the Prem.  The gap between Premier League titles is far greater than the gap between Champions league titles (last won Prem in 1990, Champions League in '05).  I know Man City fans that would have traded all four of their trophies (yes I count the Community Shield) for the Champions League, because they've won all of the competitions except the Champions League before.  Ownership brought in Pep specifically to win the Champions league.  IMO winning the Premier League is harder because it's 38 games over 9 months, but being able to say that you're "Champions of Europe" sounds more impressive that "Champions of England".  To each their own.  Doesn't really answer your question but hopefully it provides a little more insight.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 13, 2019, 03:20:55 PM
Excuses, excuses.
Pablo Escobar threw a bunch of money at the Colombian soccer program in the late 80s and within a matter of years turned it from a program that had qualified for one World Cup in its history into one that's consistently been ranked in the top 10-15 in the world. It's been 25 years since the U.S. hosted the World Cup and the program isn't significantly better off today than it was then.

Croatia didn't exist as a country 30 years ago and today they're 5th in the FIFA world rankings.

The notion that the U.S. can't be good at soccer because it's bound by the history of 50 years ago is nonsense.

I'm not making excuses, Ive literally crapped on the US Soccer program and how its run in both threads.  You're being willfully ignorant to the macro factors. 

Croatia came from Yugoslavia.  A country that had a fanatical and proud soccer culture and history.  Dinamo Zagreb is a stalwart, and before huge money came into the sport, they were winning European cups with regularity.  The framework and passion was there.

Colombia is also a fanatical soccer nation.  Resources helped them take the next step from underfunded disarray to what its become.

Each of those countries have kids playing soccer in whatever form they can from birth and worshiping the sport.  Talent is identified from a young age and cultivated holistically.  Getting kids that solely focus on soccer in the US didn't really start until the last decade on a greater scale.  It was more kids realizing it was their "best sport". The US hosted the World Cup and while fun and well covered, it was more of a curiosity.  If the US approached soccer the way they approach Olympic sports, results would follow. 

Klinnsman's whole push was to get the US to focus, promote, and develop soccer through the youth ranks in a way that could attempt to mirror other countries.  That was pushed back on, resisted, and here we are.  With another antiquated, mediocre mentality driven coach.  The US needs to think differently and creatively to get to the next level, and unfortunately they've shown no desire to on a consistent scale.  They have the resources and the potential talent pool to be great, they just need to get their sh** together.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 13, 2019, 03:35:37 PM
I'm not making excuses, Ive literally crapped on the US Soccer program and how its run in both threads.  You're being willfully ignorant to the macro factors. 

The so-called "macro" factors are being used as an excuse to cover for two decades of minimal progress and poor decisions. The state of American soccer 50 years ago should no longer be used to justify the state of American soccer today, and that's how it comes off to me every time you or Brew or someone else cites our lack of soccer tradition for our lack of soccer success.
The US Soccer Federation has enough resources, public support and a big enough player pool to overcome whatever historical hurdles you think lie in their way. They haven't because of poor leadership and poor decisions, nothing more.

p.s. I hope you never "literally crapped" on the soccer program. That would be gross and could get you arrested.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 13, 2019, 04:01:30 PM
In other news Copa starts tomorrow. As much as I hate to admit it, Brazil probably heavy, heavy favorites to win it.

Who ya got?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 13, 2019, 04:03:34 PM
By how is the structure of the women's system markedly different than that of the men's?

It's the comparative structure. Title IX around since 1972, which gave the USA a 20 year headstart developing players. We literally had a generation that grew up playing the sport in 1991, and another generation behind them that had a headstart on everyone else.

When 1991 hit, for most countries it was the genesis of women's competitive soccer. They didn't have schools or clubs dedicated to training at nearly the level we did. And while we haven't won every time out, we've never finished worse than 3rd. That means we have 7 medals, the next closest nations are Germany and Sweden with 3 each. So the next two most prolific nations haven't accomplished as much combined as the USA.

The Olympics, the other major international competition, has been even more USA dominated. We've won 4/6 gold medals since the inaugural competition in 1996 & also have a silver. So in 13 total major women's tournaments, we've won 7, taken 2nd twice, and third 3 times.

Others are catching up. European clubs have added women's teams, Brazil has built from the grassroots, but we started with an edge that we have yet to cede. When you compare that to how the men's team was basically hatched from whole cloth in the 1980s, they were always behind the 8-ball while the women were always a few laps ahead of the field.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 13, 2019, 04:11:45 PM
Too many people with their hands in the cookie jar in US soccer for much to change.

Similar to how it took relatively a long time to move away from the BCS.

People care more about their financial situation vs us soccer succeeding as an organization.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cheeks on June 13, 2019, 06:35:09 PM
It's the comparative structure. Title IX around since 1972, which gave the USA a 20 year headstart developing players. We literally had a generation that grew up playing the sport in 1991, and another generation behind them that had a headstart on everyone else.

When 1991 hit, for most countries it was the genesis of women's competitive soccer. They didn't have schools or clubs dedicated to training at nearly the level we did. And while we haven't won every time out, we've never finished worse than 3rd. That means we have 7 medals, the next closest nations are Germany and Sweden with 3 each. So the next two most prolific nations haven't accomplished as much combined as the USA.

The Olympics, the other major international competition, has been even more USA dominated. We've won 4/6 gold medals since the inaugural competition in 1996 & also have a silver. So in 13 total major women's tournaments, we've won 7, taken 2nd twice, and third 3 times.

Others are catching up. European clubs have added women's teams, Brazil has built from the grassroots, but we started with an edge that we have yet to cede. When you compare that to how the men's team was basically hatched from whole cloth in the 1980s, they were always behind the 8-ball while the women were always a few laps ahead of the field.

Same is true of women’s hoops, softball and a few others. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Warrior Code on June 14, 2019, 09:29:56 AM
I appreciate the answers, gang
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 15, 2019, 02:03:29 PM
Another reason soccer will never grow in the US, they refuse to put half the games on premium channels.

ESPN put every single match of Copa America, including the finals, on ESPN+
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 15, 2019, 02:10:46 PM
Another reason soccer will never grow in the US, they refuse to put half the games on premium channels.

ESPN put every single match of Copa America, including the finals, on ESPN+


Eh. Fox is televising all of the Women’s World Cup and most of the Gold Cup. NBC of course has the premier league. And Fox shows the Bundesliga.

There is plenty of soccer available pretty much every weekend.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 15, 2019, 02:14:53 PM

Eh. Fox is televising all of the Women’s World Cup and most of the Gold Cup. NBC of course has the premier league. And Fox shows the Bundesliga.

There is plenty of soccer available pretty much every weekend.

NBCs coverage has gotten worse though.

You used to be able to watch every game on the weekend but they went to the premium model as well with NBC Gold.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 15, 2019, 02:25:35 PM
NBCs coverage has gotten worse though.

You used to be able to watch every game on the weekend but they went to the premium model as well with NBC Gold.

They have a game in every time slot on NBC or NBC Sports. The ones on Gold used to be free online sure but my guess is 99% of their audience is watching the free games on television.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 15, 2019, 07:08:10 PM
Nice of Argentina to just not show up, jeez.

Getting beat by Roger Martinez and Duvan Zapata. What a time to be alive.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 17, 2019, 11:41:00 AM
By the way, my hobby website has stats for the Women's World Cup. The USWNT stats are disgustingly good.

https://www.lowedownstats.com/league/wwc/

It should have the Gold Cup stats up in a day or two.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 18, 2019, 08:26:16 AM
So the US opens up their Gold Cup with a game against Guyana tonight, and honestly, I don't remember the last time I was less excited for a competitive game.  Between the abysmal tune up games, and the Women tearing up France, it seems pretty "meh" to me right now.  I fully expect them to underachieve (anything less than a finals loss to Mexico is underachieving) and then spout the same old things that everyone has heard before. 

After the T+T debacle, there should have been a full reset top to bottom, and that just hasn't happened.  We're playing the same style, with the same crop of players, and the USSF as a whole seems largely unchanged. Berhalter is too Arena like.  Cordeiro is too Gulati like, and the fact that Michael Bradley is still making match-day squads should tell you everything you need to know.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 18, 2019, 08:49:04 AM
I feel like this team will backdoor their way into the Gold Cup Final, then get blasted by Mexico and everyone will say "oh, it's all okay." Something like 2011 where we had the 2-0 lead & lost 4-2.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 18, 2019, 09:13:54 AM
I feel like this team will backdoor their way into the Gold Cup Final, then get blasted by Mexico and everyone will say "oh, it's all okay." Something like 2011 where we had the 2-0 lead & lost 4-2.

I don't think "conspiracy" is the right word, but it's also no coincidence that its impossible for us to meet Mexico before the finals.  I could see a very real scenario where we lose to Panama and finish second in the group.  Meet them again in the semi's and scrape out an ugly 1-0 win, and then get outclassed by Mexico in the final, even if the scoreline doesn't reflect it.  SSDD, wholesale changes have been needed and haven't arrived.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 18, 2019, 09:48:02 AM
So the US opens up their Gold Cup with a game against Guyana tonight, and honestly, I don't remember the last time I was less excited for a competitive game.  Between the abysmal tune up games, and the Women tearing up France, it seems pretty "meh" to me right now.  I fully expect them to underachieve (anything less than a finals loss to Mexico is underachieving) and then spout the same old things that everyone has heard before. 

After the T+T debacle, there should have been a full reset top to bottom, and that just hasn't happened.  We're playing the same style, with the same crop of players, and the USSF as a whole seems largely unchanged. Berhalter is too Arena like.  Cordeiro is too Gulati like, and the fact that Michael Bradley is still making match-day squads should tell you everything you need to know.

The US youth system is stocked with talent that so far surpasses what we've seen before.  And given the disaster of qualifying last go round, the complete focus should be on 2022 and seasoning the core of that potential squad.  So what does the US do?  Keeps playing Omar Gonzalez and Tim Ream, keep playing Michael Bradley, keep thinking Zardes will ever be more than an emergency option.

Then, if you want to just look at Gold Cup specific, beyond the Josh Sargent debacle, you bring up up 2 MLS journeymen vets in Lovitz and Long, instead of trying to see what you got and give valuable meaningful matches to Carter-Vickers and Robinson.  Back to the MLS visibility and comfort over everything else I see.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 18, 2019, 09:51:19 AM
And it's not as though the Gold Cup means much any longer.  At least with the Confederations Cup you had an incentive to play in an international tournament the year before the World Cup.  Now it's a middling tournament held every other year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 18, 2019, 11:05:32 AM
I always found the difference in ticket prices between the US and UK pretty interesting.

Today for example, I saw people complaining about £65 tickets for the Cricket World Cup. To me that is very inexpensive.

Brits are baffled when I tell them how much I’ve paid for regular season football or hockey tickets. Standard for a Premier league match is like $35.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 18, 2019, 11:37:00 AM
Too many hands in the cookie jar when it comes to ussf, USA soccer, MLS, etc to make any real change.

Not to mention conflict of interest between domestic clubs (MLS) and the national team.

Does any top-tier soccer country have the same discussions about what clubs the player pool should come from? I'm guessing no, but maybe I'm wrong.

Just admit the MLS isn't the best and don't get all butthurt when we what players from other clubs
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 18, 2019, 11:44:46 AM
Too many hands in the cookie jar when it comes to ussf, USA soccer, MLS, etc to make any real change.

Not to mention conflict of interest between domestic clubs (MLS) and the national team.

Does any top-tier soccer country have the same discussions about what clubs the player pool should come from? I'm guessing no, but maybe I'm wrong.

Just admit the MLS isn't the best and don't get all butthurt when we what players from other clubs

England used to have that issue/conspiracy theory but it has been relaxed in the previous few cycles. There is definitely still a bias towards the Big 5 in England, but with Jadon Sancho playing in Germany and Declan Rice still at West Ham it's opened up a bit more.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 18, 2019, 11:58:12 AM
Too many hands in the cookie jar when it comes to ussf, USA soccer, MLS, etc to make any real change.

Not to mention conflict of interest between domestic clubs (MLS) and the national team.

Does any top-tier soccer country have the same discussions about what clubs the player pool should come from? I'm guessing no, but maybe I'm wrong.

Just admit the MLS isn't the best and don't get all butthurt when we what players from other clubs

No, because most top countries DGAF about where their talent is going provided they are getting run and developing.  You may see pushes from England for players to remain in the EPL and the top clubs there, but thats different cause its a top 2 league.  Argentina isn't clamoring for guys to stay in the Superliga.  Mexico happily has their studs playing across the globe despite Liga MX being far superior to MLS.  Look at the Dutch, Eredivise is probably a good comp for MLS in relation to Europe (though the top 3 clubs in the league would womp on anyone in MLS), but outside of PSV, Feyenoord, and Ajax, they populate their team with talent from the rest of the top leagues in Europe, no favoritism for domestic players.  And as a matter of fact, the Dutch have prided themselves on shipping and selling the best of their domestic talent abroad for decades.

I feel like US Soccer actually gets offended by young talent leaving academies or the MLS for chances in Europe.  And its reflected in the player selection.  If Josh Sargent was plugging along in Atlanta, this crap with him never happens.  I enjoy watching the MLS, and I want it to succeed for the sake of soccer in this country.  But I also harbor significant resentment for it and its most vocal proponents given the negative affect on the USMNT.  Its no surprise that Michael Bradley went from a solid and constantly developing reliable midfielder to falling off a cliff in the 5 years since he came back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 18, 2019, 12:01:37 PM
I think Berhalter has some decent tactical is, but I just don't see the path forward. The Sargent cut was inexplicable. Build around him, McKinnie, Adams, Pulisic, & Miazga at the back. Make the youth the core by 2022, hope they develop enough to be competitive for more than the last 16 by 2026.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 18, 2019, 02:50:01 PM
No, because most top countries DGAF about where their talent is going provided they are getting run and developing

Your overall point is well taken, and I'm not really defending the push for young American players to stay stateside, but this is a key phrase here. With some notable exceptions, young American players who've gone overseas find themselves glued to the bench or loaned to second-division clubs, where they don't develop.
I'm thinking of much hyped players like Julian Green, Danny Szetela, Kenny Cooper, Sal Zizzo.
The idea of development by competing against the best in the world - which isn't the case in MLS, obviously - makes a ton of sense, but I suspect a player develops first and foremost by playing, regardless of where. And so playing a lot in MLS probably is better for development than playing sparingly in Europe.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 18, 2019, 03:28:16 PM
Your overall point is well taken, and I'm not really defending the push for young American players to stay stateside, but this is a key phrase here. With some notable exceptions, young American players who've gone overseas find themselves glued to the bench or loaned to second-division clubs, where they don't develop.
I'm thinking of much hyped players like Julian Green, Danny Szetela, Kenny Cooper, Sal Zizzo.
The idea of development by competing against the best in the world - which isn't the case in MLS, obviously - makes a ton of sense, but I suspect a player develops first and foremost by playing, regardless of where. And so playing a lot in MLS probably is better for development than playing sparingly in Europe.

I understand your point, but I view a lot of the MLS academies as works in progress, where the B-squad or loan programs in Europe are a bit more fine tuned.  Listen, when it comes to 16-18 year olds, there is a ton of variability, so its kind of a crap shoot no matter where they are developing.  Szetela struggled as a pro, even in Columbus.  Cooper was never Man U quality, so it probably wasn't a good move.  Zizzo had health issues.  But all of those cases are a decade or more back, and I think US Soccer is at a much different place with youth talent (though obviously not at the top levels).  I look at guys like McKinnie, Adams, Pulisic, there is no way they would have been better suited developing in MLS.  Hell, Walker Zimmerman is pretty damn good but I think he's gonna be a lifer in MLS and probably as a result never be a USMNT regular starter.

You look at the US roster for the U-20 WC and its a great start.  Most everyone is in Europe, and there was the midfield clump from FC Dallas, who is the best academy in the MLS.  But if we start seeing preference for other MLS guys as these guys progress and develop abroad, thats a significant favoritism issue we've seen, and Klinnsman rightly railed against.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 18, 2019, 03:41:56 PM
  But if we start seeing preference for other MLS guys as these guys progress and develop abroad, thats a significant favoritism issue we've seen, and Klinnsman rightly railed against.

Interestingly enough, there's a similar debate in the hockey community, where Americans playing in the CHL have at times been bypassed in favor of those from the USNDTP and the college ranks when the U-20 teams have been chosen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 18, 2019, 04:10:54 PM
Academies are tricky because you can literally do everything right, and still have dry spells without producing.  Some years you can drop a Frenkie De Jong, Matthijis De Ligt, Hakim Ziyech, and Donny Van De Beek (combined value at around 250 mil), and some years the prize of your class will be Ryan Babel (ask a Liverpool fan if he was worth it).  All of those players were at one time highly rated and at the best academy in the world, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.  If you consistently pump resources into your academy it will eventually pay off.  Few (if any) MLS teams have figured this out/have the resources to do this, which is why you should always go abroad if given the chance.  It's not guaranteed that you'll have success if you do, but your chances will almost always be increased. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 18, 2019, 10:53:16 PM
I know it’s only Guyana, but I think I’m gonna be a really big Tyler Boyd fan.

Absent him, Gregg Berhalter put together a really weird lineup and made some weird changes. He doesn’t look like he has a clue
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 18, 2019, 10:54:43 PM
Zardes stinks.

Boyd is fun. So is pulisic

Is mckennie good?

Arriola looked solid
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on June 19, 2019, 07:44:21 AM
I like a fair amount of the talent on the roster but the fact that players like Zardes are on the roster let alone getting serious run is appalling.

And I love Bradley just as much as anyone but hes a crutch we need to move on from. Time to go full youth movement and put all the money on the WC22 spot.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 19, 2019, 08:26:59 AM
Yea the only takeaways I would focus on is that McKennie said it "was looking good" when asked about a quick recovery time for his hamstring, and that after he missed that chance in the 89th minute Boyd was walking very gingerly (looked like a problem with his foot).  Usual lack of ruthlessness in the final third, but take the three points, and a healthy squad and focus on T+T.  At least we didn't go full Argentina and have our entire game plan be give the ball to Lionel Pulisic and tell him to make something happen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 19, 2019, 09:26:39 AM
We seem to be enamored with strikers past their prime. Zardes is just the latest in the line of Wondo, Eddie Johnson, Ching, Conor Casey, & others.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 19, 2019, 10:26:13 AM
Zardes stinks.

Is mckennie good?

STINKS. Zardes is one of those guys who came up through the MLS academy and they all knew well and thought he had tons of potential, and he's been riding it forever, despite never being a reliable finisher, or player in general.

McKennie is good and will keep getting better.  He had a weird season at Schalke this year cause they went into disarray.  Hopefully with Wagner coming in, he will continue to grow and excel.


We seem to be enamored with strikers past their prime. Zardes is just the latest in the line of Wondo, Eddie Johnson, Ching, Conor Casey, & others.

And what do they all have in common?  They were toiling around in the MLS when they were getting run well past when they should.  Safe, easily monitored, "comfortable" domestic players.  Its a toxic mentality and I think it will prevent the US from ever really excelling, until we get past it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 19, 2019, 11:06:28 AM
And what do they all have in common?  They were toiling around in the MLS when they were getting run well past when they should.  Safe, easily monitored, "comfortable" domestic players.  Its a toxic mentality and I think it will prevent the US from ever really excelling, until we get past it.

Electing Carlos Cordeiro was a mistake.

Arena & Bradley were fine tacticians, but neither were very exciting in their roles. They kept things stable, kept us as a top-20 or so side, good enough to get out of the groups at the World Cup & be one of the best in CONCACAF, but never good enough to get past that level.

Klinsmann was...well, he wasn't a good coach. He wasn't a good man manager & not a particularly good tactician. But by American standards, he had ideas. He had a vision. The problem was Gulati wanted the name without a willingness to transform to the vision that name wanted. Klinsmann would have been better taking over a developmental role. Recruiting players & overseeing a long-term vision. After 2014, he should've been moved upstairs into a role like the one Earnie Stewart took.

I really hoped Stewart would be a change-maker, and maybe he will be, but it feels like Cordeiro is just going to maintain the Gulati status quo. MLS-centered rosters, hope to have a star or two to keep the masses attention, never good enough to take us over the top. As a long-time Cubs fan, this feels like the 1990s Cubs when they had Sammy Sosa. Sure, his home runs kept the fans coming out (like Donovan, Dempsey, Pulisic) but they were never a serious threat to win the World Series. Just like a USMNT that is stagnant with one good player or two will never be good enough to win a World Cup.

Maybe I am being too hard on Berhalter after a couple tough friendlies, but this feels like the end of the Bradley era all over again, only with lesser tactics.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on June 20, 2019, 08:56:16 AM
Electing Carlos Cordeiro was a mistake.

Arena & Bradley were fine tacticians, but neither were very exciting in their roles. They kept things stable, kept us as a top-20 or so side, good enough to get out of the groups at the World Cup & be one of the best in CONCACAF, but never good enough to get past that level.

Klinsmann was...well, he wasn't a good coach. He wasn't a good man manager & not a particularly good tactician. But by American standards, he had ideas. He had a vision. The problem was Gulati wanted the name without a willingness to transform to the vision that name wanted. Klinsmann would have been better taking over a developmental role. Recruiting players & overseeing a long-term vision. After 2014, he should've been moved upstairs into a role like the one Earnie Stewart took.

I really hoped Stewart would be a change-maker, and maybe he will be, but it feels like Cordeiro is just going to maintain the Gulati status quo. MLS-centered rosters, hope to have a star or two to keep the masses attention, never good enough to take us over the top. As a long-time Cubs fan, this feels like the 1990s Cubs when they had Sammy Sosa. Sure, his home runs kept the fans coming out (like Donovan, Dempsey, Pulisic) but they were never a serious threat to win the World Series. Just like a USMNT that is stagnant with one good player or two will never be good enough to win a World Cup.

Maybe I am being too hard on Berhalter after a couple tough friendlies, but this feels like the end of the Bradley era all over again, only with lesser tactics.

#10-15yearstojudge, hey?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 21, 2019, 08:42:21 AM
I'd just like to take a minute to point out what a sh!t show Man U is right now.  No Champions League, (reportedly) only 100 mil transfer budget, three best * players want out, biggest transfer flop in recent history going nowhere because he's getting paid 500K a week to sit on the bench, pretty divided opinion on if Ole can get the job done (personally I don't see it).  I'd be extremely nervous if I were Ed Woodward.

*technically subjective term, but widely accepted
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 22, 2019, 08:59:24 PM
Tonight was by far the best this team has looked under Berhalter. They were aggressive early & even before the goals (6 of them) started to come they looked good.

Boyd looks like a real player. Pulisic started slow but really found his groove & had the ball on a string. Steffen had some good saves. Even Gyasi Zardes had a really well taken goal (his second was impressive). And it could've been far worse for T&T. 6-0, but 2 off the crossbar & Marvin Philip made some really incredible saves to deny some goals.

Panama will be the first real test, but this was finally, after 6 matches, a performance under Berhalter that made me sit up and say "yes."

This won't completely silence critics (like me) but at least for tonight, I've got no real gripes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 30, 2019, 09:42:15 PM
So we're getting outplayed by Curacao now?  That second half was the worst we've looked since T+T, and worst we've been under Berhalter.  The Steffen save was truly world class, but other than that a whole lotta nothing.  Jamaica would have beaten the US tonight.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 30, 2019, 09:46:05 PM
I watched most of the first half (missed the goal in real time) and it was okay. They mostly controlled the early going, but couldn't get the breakthrough. Saw the start of the second and after the first couple minutes, it just looked like Curacao was the better side and we were the ones trying to hit on the counter. I missed the last 30 or so minutes, but it doesn't look like that got any better.

Not really sure what to say, they are very inconsistent. There's some talent there, some reasons for optimism, but I feel Berhalter is often a bit late to make the sub or adjust tactics. Surprised to see Zardes out there so late today because he didn't have it from the start. Should've gone to Altidore.

Oh well...I was looking forward more to 2026 anyway. Hopefully he'll be gone before then.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 01, 2019, 08:14:33 AM
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/06/30/armchair-analyst-usmnt-hang-dear-life-vs-curacao
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 01, 2019, 09:54:17 AM
I'm totally shocked that a new coach in his first tournament playing a predominantly young team with little experience in tournament football is a wildly inconsistent situation.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 03, 2019, 10:22:42 PM
Pre-rain delay, that was inspired soccer from the US. Jozy was made to play center forward under berhalter
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 07, 2019, 03:38:30 PM
So...double championship day, or do the men fail to reach the women's standard? I'm expecting a USA loss.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 07, 2019, 05:40:23 PM
So...double championship day, or do the men fail to reach the women's standard? I'm expecting a USA loss.

100% expect a loss but I think as long as Jozy plays instead of Zardes we'll be competitive
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 07, 2019, 09:47:36 PM
That was inevitable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: injuryBug on July 07, 2019, 09:50:59 PM
so is soldier field in mexico or US feels /sounds like a road game
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 07, 2019, 09:53:59 PM
The Mexican fans travel.  And their team is the aggressor.  Good way to shut them up is to outplay their team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 07, 2019, 10:02:30 PM
so is soldier field in mexico or US feels /sounds like a road game

I attended the 2007 Gold Cup Final there and expected to be outnumbered 80-20. It was more like 97% Mexico fans. Columbus is the only stadium where we can reliably expect a pro-US crowd against Mexico.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on July 07, 2019, 10:04:49 PM
US had opportunities.  Didn't finish.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: injuryBug on July 07, 2019, 10:09:50 PM
yep if altidore could have finished that first chance.  Much better than i thought it would go for this tournament after the poor showing in the friendlies before.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 07, 2019, 10:10:51 PM
Great first half.

Mexico made 2H adjustments. US failed to adjust after that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 07, 2019, 10:13:47 PM
Disgraceful. The complete capitulation in the second half was pathetic. Until the last 5 minutes, the USA may as well have not taken the pitch in the second half.

Berhalter showed no ability to adjust to the pressure. Altidore had to come off, but Zardes continued to do nothing. How does Boyd, who was undoubtedly the most likely goal scorer on the bench, not get in?

A couple bright spots in the group stage, but otherwise a disappointing tournament with questionable selections and inadequate strategies.

I know it will seem harsh as Mexico was the favorite, but this is the judgment. Beat Mexico, win the Gold Cup, that's success. Anything less is failure. This was less. This was failure.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 07, 2019, 10:19:09 PM
Disgraceful. The complete capitulation in the second half was pathetic. Until the last 5 minutes, the USA may as well have not taken the pitch in the second half.

Berhalter showed no ability to adjust to the pressure. Altidore had to come off, but Zardes continued to do nothing. How does Boyd, who was undoubtedly the most likely goal scorer on the bench, not get in?

A couple bright spots in the group stage, but otherwise a disappointing tournament with questionable selections and inadequate strategies.

I know it will seem harsh as Mexico was the favorite, but this is the judgment. Beat Mexico, win the Gold Cup, that's success. Anything less is failure. This was less. This was failure.

 ::)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 07, 2019, 10:23:53 PM
https://twitter.com/_jameshill/status/1148068124010397696?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 07, 2019, 10:24:59 PM
It's the conundrum of CONCACAF. Making a semifinal or final just doesn't have meaning. Mexico has won 4/6 Gold Cups and the Confederations playoff. We have plummeted in our Confederation in the last decade. There's no denying that and no denying that the only bar for success in a competition like this is a trophy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: withoutbias on July 07, 2019, 10:25:44 PM
Disgraceful. The complete capitulation in the second half was pathetic. Until the last 5 minutes, the USA may as well have not taken the pitch in the second half.

Berhalter showed no ability to adjust to the pressure. Altidore had to come off, but Zardes continued to do nothing. How does Boyd, who was undoubtedly the most likely goal scorer on the bench, not get in?

A couple bright spots in the group stage, but otherwise a disappointing tournament with questionable selections and inadequate strategies.

I know it will seem harsh as Mexico was the favorite, but this is the judgment. Beat Mexico, win the Gold Cup, that's success. Anything less is failure. This was less. This was failure.

were not talking about the womens team. to call anything less than a title for a us mens national team a failure is just kidding yourself.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 07, 2019, 10:26:30 PM
https://twitter.com/JerryHinnen/status/1148067731834642432?s=19

IMO, results in this tournament were not super important. You're talking about rebuilding a national team. Patience.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 07, 2019, 10:34:28 PM
were not talking about the womens team. to call anything less than a title for a us mens national team a failure is just kidding yourself.

We're not talking about the men's World Cup. In the Gold Cup, that is absolutely the only bar. For us and Mexico, it's title or failure.

The USA Women's team has won 8 of the 9 Gold Cups they've played in. That is basically a forgone conclusion.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 07, 2019, 11:01:19 PM
https://twitter.com/tutulismyname/status/1148076806072938497?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 08, 2019, 09:42:27 AM
It's the conundrum of CONCACAF. Making a semifinal or final just doesn't have meaning. Mexico has won 4/6 Gold Cups and the Confederations playoff. We have plummeted in our Confederation in the last decade. There's no denying that and no denying that the only bar for success in a competition like this is a trophy.

Is the bolded limited strictly to the Gold Cup?

Because if it includes any event outside of the Gold Cup it's a wild exaggeration not based in reality.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 08, 2019, 10:37:35 AM
Can Mike Bradley come off the team already?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 08, 2019, 02:46:05 PM
Is the bolded limited strictly to the Gold Cup?

Because if it includes any event outside of the Gold Cup it's a wild exaggeration not based in reality.

We missed the last World Cup, behind the likes of Panama, Costa Rica, and Honduras. We lost to Trinidad & Tobago with qualification on the line.

We had a great run from 2002-2014, but you could see at the 2014 World Cup we were starting to decline. Donovan was gone. Howard had to stand on his head to keep us in the Belgium match but we knew stars like him, Beasley, Dempsey, & Jones were on the way out. It was up to the next generation that has largely come up short.

No keeper has emerged to replace Howard. We don't have a defensive anchor we can rely on like Gooch or Demerit. Bradley never became the midfield rock we thought he'd be. Right now, we're thanking our stars for Pulisic while he is basically our only creator of quality.

Are we better than 2 years ago when we missed qualification? Maybe. But if so it's only because Pulisic is two years older. We're stagnating around the rest of the pitch with guys like Bradley, Altidore, & Zardes who can't hold on. We're pinning hopes on guys like Sargent, Adams, & McKinnie with a manager that has shown a preference for MLS players.

I hope this proves to be a new golden generation, but we've been promised that for the last 12 years and none of the new crops delivered. Hard to believe this one will be different.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 08, 2019, 03:01:43 PM
I'm curious Brew, are you upset just by the fact that we lost, or the way that we played?  I ask this because I thought that we played fine, and very well could have won.  If Pulisic buries that chance in the 5th minute, and then we bunker for the next 80+ and scrape out a 1-0 win would you be more happy? 

Steffen is the clear no. 1 in goal, and our defense (which admittedly was terrible in the build up games) conceded 2 goals the entire tournament without our two best and most experienced defenders (Mexico conceded 4).  We still need more options going forward, but if we played as well as we did last night, but had a healthy John Brooks, Deandre Yedlin, and Tyler Adams I think we would have won. 

Older players (Bradley, Ream, Gonzalez) need to be phased out immediately to give younger players more minutes, and there are absolutely still systematic problems within the USSF, but it's not all doom and gloom.  Take a step back from the ledge.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 08, 2019, 03:33:21 PM
Basically everything from a management perspective. Players like Zardes, Ream, Bradley, and Gonzalez simply aren't international players and all got major minutes.

Tactically, yesterday was a disaster. In the first half, we repeatedly played the ball back to Steffen to maintain possession. That strategy let Mexico know they could press in the second half, which they did mercilessly, and we had no answer. Instead of playing long balls over their press, we continued playing short passes that were repeatedly intercepted and allowed Mexico to keep the pressure on.

When we needed a goal, we brought in Lovitz, a left back who gave nothing to the attack while Tyler Boyd, our most explosive offensive player this tournament not named Pulisic, sat on the bench. Berhalter continues, with rare exception (T&T, maybe Panama), to look out of his depth.

I also question the focus. If we're bringing old players like we did, it means the goal is to win now. But if we're ever going to truly win big, it will likely be in 2026 when we host. So then we should shepherd along players like Sargent, Novakovic, Weah, and Dest. So if the goal is win now, we didn't, and if the goal is develop for the future, we didn't. Just hard to take positives from this.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 08, 2019, 04:27:35 PM
I understand that you're very anti-MLS, and I would have loved if players like Brooks, and Adams would have been available, but since they were injured Berhalter didn't have a lot of options.  Robinson also did not look at all impressive in our loss to Jamaica in the build up, I would rather have had the significantly more experienced Ream at that point.

You have complained in the past that the US has not even attempted to build out of the back and they just play boot ball, so now when they try to build from the back you're taking exception again?

The last 10 minutes we played with three at the back, and moved Miazga to center forward.  Ream was our weakest defender before that move was made so giving him more ground to cover with less help was asking for trouble, I have no problem with that substitution.  Look less at who came in, and more at how we changed once hey did, throwing our 6'-4" CB up top and essentially playing two forwards is the right move there.

You make it seem like "winning now" and "playing for the future" are mutually exclusive.  It would be down right stupid for Berhalter to be planning 2026 when there's a good chance that he'll be gone by then.  Once again, I would have loved if some of the younger guys had gotten minutes, and someone screwed up the Sargent situation, but Weah played at the U20 World Cup this summer, and there's no way I'm giving a senior debut to an 18 year old that signed his first professional contract less than 12 months ago, or someone that can't even break into Championship side Reading's first team yet.  We don't even get to the finals if we just throw out the young guys that you wanted.  The kids will get there, but throw someone into the furnace too soon and you get another Adu.

Older players do need to get to get cycled out for younger ones, but I have absolutely no problem with a "win now" mentality for the first competitive games in almost two years.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 08, 2019, 10:04:24 PM
This seems to be a reasonable take.

https://deadspin.com/the-usmnt-lost-the-gold-cup-final-and-thats-probably-o-1836187519
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 09, 2019, 08:34:03 AM
This seems to be a reasonable take.

https://deadspin.com/the-usmnt-lost-the-gold-cup-final-and-thats-probably-o-1836187519

Very well reasoned take, with one caveat IMO.  I know that Adams is the long term successor to the defensive mid role that Bradley was attempting to play, but with him out, you could have put McKennie there instead.  He played all over the midfield and even on the back line for Shalke last year.  He's the closest thing to a utility man that we have, and has a very high work rate.  Putting him in that position would have left our back line less exposed IMO.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 09, 2019, 08:43:36 AM
Very well reasoned take, with one caveat IMO.  I know that Adams is the long term successor to the defensive mid role that Bradley was attempting to play, but with him out, you could have put McKennie there instead.  He played all over the midfield and even on the back line for Shalke last year.  He's the closest thing to a utility man that we have, and has a very high work rate.  Putting him in that position would have left our back line less exposed IMO.

I think you have to account for all the voices with USSF that Gregg has to accommodate in the early days. He's not Herb Brooks, he's not going to tell USSF to stuff it and USSF is very slow to change and wants to minimize risk. In their minds its better to put known quantities out there than to make a sea change(that is so desperately needed) and risk falling flat on their face with poor performance.

IMO, I think the fan community would generally welcome taking a big swing in terms of go all in on the youth. If we played a bunch of youth and we had bad results in this cup but we showed promise I'd be fine with it. Every choice we make from now on should really only have the goal of making the round of 16 in 2022 and the semis in 2026. There should be no other metric.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 09, 2019, 09:06:26 AM
IMO, I think the fan community would generally welcome taking a big swing in terms of go all in on the youth. If we played a bunch of youth and we had bad results in this cup but we showed promise I'd be fine with it. Every choice we make from now on should really only have the goal of making the round of 16 in 2022 and the semis in 2026. There should be no other metric.

I don't disagree, but once again, in our first competitive games in almost two years, I'm more okay with throwing known quantities out there.  We have a low chance of beating Mexico with Bradley in the starting 11, but a very high chance of at least getting to the finals with him there.  Players like Antonee Robinson and Tim Weah at their best are better than Tim Ream, Paul Arriola etc, but the older players are much more consistent.  Now that we're moving on to CONCACAF Nations League, I would hope that the phasing out of older players happens at an increased rate. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: TeamOh on July 09, 2019, 09:17:17 AM
My question is:

Should the WNT play against the MNT to prove they deserve equal pay?

And if so, who wins?  In my mind, it's 3-2 women's team.  At least in the women's game they're actually trying to score for more than the final 5 minutes of the game.  The men could score like 30 times on the women, but they don't look to score in men's soccer so they'd just pass it back and forth in the middle 80 yards of the field and score a couple times by just being physically faster and stronger, while the women would actually create scoring opportunities throughout the game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 09, 2019, 09:59:03 AM
My question is:

Should the WNT play against the MNT to prove they deserve equal pay?

And if so, who wins?  In my mind, it's 3-2 women's team.  At least in the women's game they're actually trying to score for more than the final 5 minutes of the game.  The men could score like 30 times on the women, but they don't look to score in men's soccer so they'd just pass it back and forth in the middle 80 yards of the field and score a couple times by just being physically faster and stronger, while the women would actually create scoring opportunities throughout the game.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/11caUX0P0nYZ32/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 09, 2019, 12:39:48 PM
We missed the last World Cup, behind the likes of Panama, Costa Rica, and Honduras. We lost to Trinidad & Tobago with qualification on the line.

We had a great run from 2002-2014, but you could see at the 2014 World Cup we were starting to decline. Donovan was gone. Howard had to stand on his head to keep us in the Belgium match but we knew stars like him, Beasley, Dempsey, & Jones were on the way out. It was up to the next generation that has largely come up short.

No keeper has emerged to replace Howard. We don't have a defensive anchor we can rely on like Gooch or Demerit. Bradley never became the midfield rock we thought he'd be. Right now, we're thanking our stars for Pulisic while he is basically our only creator of quality.

Are we better than 2 years ago when we missed qualification? Maybe. But if so it's only because Pulisic is two years older. We're stagnating around the rest of the pitch with guys like Bradley, Altidore, & Zardes who can't hold on. We're pinning hopes on guys like Sargent, Adams, & McKinnie with a manager that has shown a preference for MLS players.

I hope this proves to be a new golden generation, but we've been promised that for the last 12 years and none of the new crops delivered. Hard to believe this one will be different.

Yikes.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wadesworld on July 09, 2019, 01:50:20 PM
My question is:

Should the WNT play against the MNT to prove they deserve equal pay?

And if so, who wins?  In my mind, it's 3-2 women's team.  At least in the women's game they're actually trying to score for more than the final 5 minutes of the game.  The men could score like 30 times on the women, but they don't look to score in men's soccer so they'd just pass it back and forth in the middle 80 yards of the field and score a couple times by just being physically faster and stronger, while the women would actually create scoring opportunities throughout the game.

That's too much scoring for a game involving a men's soccer team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 09, 2019, 02:16:42 PM
so is soldier field in mexico or US feels /sounds like a road game

No Mexico doesn't start till western and cermak

But seriously it's not terribly surprising the Mexico fans outnumbered the US fans, first generation and even some second generation Mexican Americans still root for Mexico in my experience. But that's true of a lot of cultures.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 10, 2019, 10:26:21 AM
https://twitter.com/PaulCarr/status/1148974856735772672

New Concacaf Qualifying for 2022.

The top six teams go right to the Hex.  Top three to the Finals.  The rest of the teams go through a group and knockout stage for the right to play the #4 Hex team for a spot in the inter-confederation playoffs.

This seems massively unfair to the lower ranked teams in Concacaf, but I know they wanted to have all the countries to have something to play for later on in the qualification process.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 10, 2019, 10:31:22 AM
So, based on current rankings, the Hex would be Mexico, US, Costa Rica, Jamaica, Honduras and El Savador.  This will obviously change due to Gold Cup performance, but the top three (and maybe Jamaica) look like they are guaranteed with the next two or three fighting with the likes of Panama, Canada, Curacao and Trinidad for the last spots.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 10, 2019, 10:45:39 AM
I actually like the new format.  You know teams like Anguilla and Montserrat are never going to qualify, but they were eliminated from contention for the 2018 WC in March 2015 after playing 2 games.  Now they'll at least have more games before they're eliminated.

US and Mexico were never going to not qualify for the Hex anyways, now we don't have to waste time beating the likes of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 10, 2019, 10:49:32 AM
https://twitter.com/PaulCarr/status/1148974856735772672

New Concacaf Qualifying for 2022.

The top six teams go right to the Hex.  Top three to the Finals.  The rest of the teams go through a group and knockout stage for the right to play the #4 Hex team for a spot in the inter-confederation playoffs.

This seems massively unfair to the lower ranked teams in Concacaf, but I know they wanted to have all the countries to have something to play for later on in the qualification process.

From the perspective of the Hex candidates (top 6 FIFA rankings), this doesn't make much sense. If you finish 5th or 6th after the Hex, you're out.  But the winner of the 29 team non-hex group has a chance to get in?

Feels like they need one more step. Top 3 Hex finishers qualify. Bottom 3 Hex play round robin. Winner of that plays winner of non-hex teams for intercontinental playoff.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 10, 2019, 11:01:33 AM
From the perspective of the Hex candidates (top 6 FIFA rankings), this doesn't make much sense. If you finish 5th or 6th after the Hex, you're out.  But the winner of the 29 team non-hex group has a chance to get in?

Feels like they need one more step. Top 3 Hex finishers qualify. Bottom 3 Hex play round robin. Winner of that plays winner of non-hex teams for intercontinental playoff.

But the reformatting wasn't intended to give team finishing 5th and 6th another lifeline, it was designed to get the small countries to play more than 2 or 4 meaningful games every 4 years, which it does.  Either way, you can only use this format once, because something brand new will have to be conceived for 2026.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wadesworld on July 10, 2019, 11:27:46 AM
Honest question from a non fan.  How easy/hard does the USA men's team have in qualifying for the World Cup compared to other parts of the world?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on July 10, 2019, 11:36:23 AM
Honest question from a non fan.  How easy/hard does the USA men's team have in qualifying for the World Cup compared to other parts of the world?

In short, harder than AP much easier than EMEA and easier than LA.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 10, 2019, 11:38:24 AM
Honest question from a non fan.  How easy/hard does the USA men's team have in qualifying for the World Cup compared to other parts of the world?

CONCACAF is notoriously easy to qualify from.  CONMEBOL is considered the most difficult followed by UEFA followed by a fairly steep drop off.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 10, 2019, 11:39:09 AM
Honest question from a non fan.  How easy/hard does the USA men's team have in qualifying for the World Cup compared to other parts of the world?


It really depends on some of the draws.  For instance, a top team in Europe can get a relatively simple draw (see Germany in 2018) if they don't have a real top-notch second team to deal with.  Whereas Italy didn't make the Cup because they had to go against Spain in the group stage, then lost in the playoffs to another tough team in Sweden.

In Africa, it is similar, where only the group winners make the Finals.  So if you are placed with another good team, it's going to be difficult.

I would think the hardest is South America.  Ten teams playing a complete round robin.  Really the only "dogs" are Bolivia and Venezuela. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 10, 2019, 11:46:58 AM

It really depends on some of the draws.  For instance, a top team in Europe can get a relatively simple draw (see Germany in 2018) if they don't have a real top-notch second team to deal with.  Whereas Italy didn't make the Cup because they had to go against Spain in the group stage, then lost in the playoffs to another tough team in Sweden.

In Africa, it is similar, where only the group winners make the Finals.  So if you are placed with another good team, it's going to be difficult.

I would think the hardest is South America.  Ten teams playing a complete round robin.  Really the only "dogs" are Bolivia and Venezuela.

But Germany kinda earned that via their FIFA ranking, that's how the groups were decided.  It's no coincidence that Germany, Spain, France, Belgium, Croatia, and England all avoided each other in the group stage.  It doesn't work perfectly because as you noted Italy were in the same group as Spain, and The Dutch got stuck with France and Sweden, but the point still stands.   Plus any region that ha the host country in it, is going to have a slightly screwed up qualifying system.  CONCACAF in 2026 will actually be really interesting because it will be all the small countries playing each other for (probably) three spots, with the US, Mexico and Canada getting the automatic qualifier.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wadesworld on July 10, 2019, 11:54:01 AM
Another dumb non-fan question.  Are both qualifying tournaments and the World Cup COMPLETELY random "draws" in terms of "pools" (or whatever they may be called), or are there things like "one team from this group of countries will be in each different pool" kind of thing?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 10, 2019, 12:02:16 PM
Another dumb non-fan question.  Are both qualifying tournaments and the World Cup COMPLETELY random "draws" in terms of "pools" (or whatever they may be called), or are there things like "one team from this group of countries will be in each different pool" kind of thing?


They are almost always seeded.  So if you have 8 groups of four, the top 8 teams will be in one pot, 9-16 in another, 17-24 in a third, etc.

It would be like if the NCAA tournament was decided by randomly drawing the one seeds into brackets, followed by two seeds, etc.

If you read this, it details how UEFA did their qualification back in 2018.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 10, 2019, 12:03:56 PM
Another dumb non-fan question.  Are both qualifying tournaments and the World Cup COMPLETELY random "draws" in terms of "pools" (or whatever they may be called), or are there things like "one team from this group of countries will be in each different pool" kind of thing?

This should help.
https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/11/14/world-cup-group-draw-pots-russia-2018

Host automatically gets put in "pot one", after that it's strictly by FIFA rankings (at least it was in 2018, they tweak it slightly almost every time for geography etc.). Still possible to get "group of deaths" (Germany, Spain, Denmark, Australia was possible in 2018), but much better balance.  Same/similar procedure happens with almost every tournament that has a group stage (both internationally and at club level).   

If a tournament is straight knock out, (FA Cup or League Cup for example), you can get marquee match-ups earlier.  In the build up to last years League Cup Final, Chelsea had to go through Liverpool, and Spurs while the toughest team City had to face was Leicester.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 10, 2019, 12:20:57 PM
Another dumb non-fan question.  Are both qualifying tournaments and the World Cup COMPLETELY random "draws" in terms of "pools" (or whatever they may be called), or are there things like "one team from this group of countries will be in each different pool" kind of thing?

CONACAF just changed its qualifying format for the 2022 WC.

https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2019/07/10/explaining-concacafs-new-world-cup-qualification-format/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 10, 2019, 02:16:03 PM
Really don't like the new format.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 10, 2019, 02:22:14 PM
Really don't like the new format.

Can I ask why?  It really shouldn't/doesn't affect the USMNT very much at all, and it allows a lot of smaller countries opportunities to play significantly more games, even if their chances of qualification aren't increased at all.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 10, 2019, 02:58:59 PM
I think the teams that have the most to complain about are the ones who are going to fall seventh or eighth in the FIFA rankings. Or maybe they don't since they have nothing but their on-field performance to blame. But the more I think about it, the more I think it was worth a change. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 11, 2019, 11:07:49 AM
CONCACAF is nowhere near as hard as the qualifying in UEFA, but the only extra degree of difficulty is some of the decent teams playing in absolute viper pits, or you're playing on water logged repurposed cricket pitches for some of the island nations.  Comparable Euro squads to the US aren't playing top 70 nations in brutal conditions or barely squeaking by 100+ ranked squads cause the ball won't roll right. 

All that being said, the US should always roll right through the Hex.  Anything less is complete systemic failure.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 11, 2019, 02:04:34 PM
Can I ask why?  It really shouldn't/doesn't affect the USMNT very much at all, and it allows a lot of smaller countries opportunities to play significantly more games, even if their chances of qualification aren't increased at all.

I just think it unfairly punishes teams 7-12 and specifically countries like Curacao and Haiti who have invested a lot into the game and have been improving. They could have pushed for the Hex and direct qualification and instead now have to play in a 29 team tournament for the chance to maybe have a chance at .5 WC spots.

The use of FIFA rankings to determine the top 6 makes no sense to me either. The rankings can be gamed. Also, the cutoff date for the FIFA rankings is in less than a year. For CONCACAF to give nations less than a year notice this new qualifying format means teams ranked worse than 8ish don't have any chance to improve their ranking enough to make the hex. It also oddly rewards teams like Honduras and El Salvador who probably aren't top 6 teams in the region but will have a leg up to make the final round.

With regards to the USMNT, it's fine. Probably helps us.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 11, 2019, 02:19:46 PM
I think that you can make an argument that it helps teams like Curacao and Haiti.  Even if they were able to make the push and get into the Hex under the old system, the odds of them getting top 4 after 10 games going up against the likes of US, Mexico and Costa Rica is really low IMO.  Now they could, in theory, qualify without playing any of the regional big dogs. 

Someone from CONCACAF could now qualify for the inter-continental playoff without playing any team in the top 65, and assuming Australia comes out of the Oceanic group again, could qualify for the World Cup without playing a team in the top 40.  Compared to CONMEBOL where the format didn't allow the 16th ranked team to qualify, or UEFA where the 14th ranked team couldn't qualify, it's still ridiculously easy for CONCACAF teams compared to other regions in the world.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 25, 2019, 12:56:39 PM
https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/men/#CONCACAF

Updated FIFA rankings came out today.  Up 8 spots overall, still second in CONCACAF.  Top 6 next summer seems like it's almost a lock at this point regardless of the Nations League, although I don't 100% understand the point/ranking algorithm.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 25, 2019, 02:34:48 PM
I'm big on following movements of important USMNT components over the summer.

Zack Steffan joining Fortuna Dusseldorf on loan from Man City.  Good chance at plenty of first team Bundesliga action.  Then hopefully brought back to Man City to contribute.  Same age as Howard when he left MLS for Man Utd originally.

Paul Arriola rumored to be leaving DC United for either England or back to Liga MX.  Another good move IMO.  I really like him as a super sub on the wing for the US, needs to get more seasoning on top levels.  I got into an argument with someone recently who told me the MLS and Liga MX are on par with each other.  Which is absurd.  Top 2-3 teams in MLS can compete but there is a reason Liga MX dominates CONCACAF Champions League every year.

Tyler Boyd to Besiktas.  LOVE it.  Great league, club that scores a lot of goals and plays very offensive minded soccer.  Unfortunately its not CL, but Europa should provide him plenty of action.  Great audition to a top 4 league in Europe.

Matt Miazga back to Reading on Loan.  Becoming mini-Everton of the mid 2010s now with Miazga and Novakovich.  Nice and close to Chelsea to hopefully keep an eye on him.  Hopefully he's not fallen completely out of their plans.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 25, 2019, 03:20:23 PM
I highly doubt that Steffan will ever play for City.  He's only one year younger that their no 1 and wouldn't want to be a back up.  Good loan move, but he'll be sold by city within a couple of years for a profit.

Agree on Arriola.  MX is much better than MLS, but would still rather see him go across the pond.

Great move for Boyd.  See him doing well there and some bigger club taking a shot with him.

Miazga is staring to run out of time with Chelsea.  24 and 4th straight year on loan.  I think he's good enough for a mid tier big 5 league team, but the breakthrough has to come soon.  Development has slowed over the last 24 months.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 25, 2019, 05:43:25 PM
I highly doubt that Steffan will ever play for City.  He's only one year younger that their no 1 and wouldn't want to be a back up.  Good loan move, but he'll be sold by city within a couple of years for a profit.

Miazga is staring to run out of time with Chelsea.  24 and 4th straight year on loan.  I think he's good enough for a mid tier big 5 league team, but the breakthrough has to come soon.  Development has slowed over the last 24 months.

Claudio Bravo is 36 coming off an Achilles injury.  I could see Steffan being brought back in 2020 to spell Ederson, play the Cup matches, and then likely get sold elsewhere in England.  Having an America wear the shirt also helps with their continued US branding efforts.

Agreed on Miazga.  The Chelsea loan system can be even more perilous when you have managers constantly coming in and out.  I'm not optimistic though.  I'm worried enough about Pulisic there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 26, 2019, 08:34:29 AM
Claudio Bravo is 36 coming off an Achilles injury.  I could see Steffan being brought back in 2020 to spell Ederson, play the Cup matches, and then likely get sold elsewhere in England.  Having an America wear the shirt also helps with their continued US branding efforts.

The thing is, that I'm not even sure that he would be the best keeper that mcfc currently has out on loan.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/arijanet-muri%C4%87/profil/spieler/371021

Four years younger.  Came up through the academy (which actually means something), recalled after Bravo's injury last year and impressed in the chances given.  Also, as much as the branding helps, that will have 0% influence over Pep.  He will play who he wants, regardless of what anyone else says.  I absolutely want Steffan to succeed, and I think he will, I just doubt that it will be with City.  Remember when City signed Mix Diskerud and people freaked out because it was an American going to a big club?  Never made an appearance for City.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 26, 2019, 09:57:35 AM
The thing is, that I'm not even sure that he would be the best keeper that mcfc currently has out on loan.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/arijanet-muri%C4%87/profil/spieler/371021

Four years younger.  Came up through the academy (which actually means something), recalled after Bravo's injury last year and impressed in the chances given.  Also, as much as the branding helps, that will have 0% influence over Pep.  He will play who he wants, regardless of what anyone else says.  I absolutely want Steffan to succeed, and I think he will, I just doubt that it will be with City.  Remember when City signed Mix Diskerud and people freaked out because it was an American going to a big club?  Never made an appearance for City.

Fair point.  Mix is completely different for me.  That was someone they had in their system at NYCFC that they wanted to put into their developmental system.  No intelligent fan thought he would be putting on the City kit.  He wasn't even a standout MLS player.  Steffan on the other hand was an MLS star and the figured US #1, which matters as thats the only position the US has consistently churned out at an international level.  But I fully agree the odds of him being a City player, much less a regular, aren't high.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 26, 2019, 01:09:45 PM
https://twitter.com/SkyKaveh/status/1154780800216371201

I wasn't overly impressed with Long during the Gold Cup, but if this were to go through his ceiling would skyrocket.  One of the best leagues in the world with a top manager.  More please.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 30, 2019, 08:48:43 AM
https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/07/28/caden-benson-free-kick-goal-special-olympics-fc-dallas

Thunderbolt alert.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 30, 2019, 11:08:45 AM
https://twitter.com/SkyKaveh/status/1154780800216371201

I wasn't overly impressed with Long during the Gold Cup, but if this were to go through his ceiling would skyrocket.  One of the best leagues in the world with a top manager.  More please.

1000% agree.  He wasn't great and I further was fairly unhappy with his selection in general.  But this would be huge for him, and hopefully help put Ream out to pasture.

Seeing now that its fallen through for the moment due to work permit issues.  I find this to be ridiculous.  Amazing how US internationals have so much trouble getting work permits.  Its always those who have European grandparents that make it work with a separate passport.  I have multiple friends that had no issues getting work permits to work as accountants, consultants, and even lawyers.  Yet a top athlete playing for a Premier League club can't secure one.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 12, 2019, 08:25:50 AM
So week one of the Prem in the books, and surprise, it looks like it's really only going to be a two horse race again.  City made West Ham look like a high school team and Liverpool looked equally impressive against (an admittedly bad) Norwich side.  Spurs and Arsenal both looked so-so for long stretches and Sundays' United Chelsea game was more about how Chelsea couldn't strengthen and have a rookie manager rather than United being "back".  Expect top two to be another slug-fest, and then a solid 15-20 point drop off. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 12, 2019, 09:27:10 AM
So week one of the Prem in the books, and surprise, it looks like it's really only going to be a two horse race again.  City made West Ham look like a high school team and Liverpool looked equally impressive against (an admittedly bad) Norwich side.  Spurs and Arsenal both looked so-so for long stretches and Sundays' United Chelsea game was more about how Chelsea couldn't strengthen and have a rookie manager rather than United being "back".  Expect top two to be another slug-fest, and then a solid 15-20 point drop off.

When a majority of the competition doesn't field a full first choice squad it seems unwise to make sweeping generalizations at either end of the table.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 12, 2019, 09:47:12 AM
When a majority of the competition doesn't field a full first choice squad it seems unwise to make sweeping generalizations at either end of the table.

Well considering that last year it was a two horse race, the team that spent the most over the summer is newly promoted Aston Villa, and spending in the Prem all together is down about 25%, I don't think saying that it will once again be a two horse race is anything earth shattering.  I also didn't comment on relegation at all so I'm not sure where you're getting both ends of the table.  Saying that not much has changed in the three month off-season is not a sweeping generalization.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on August 12, 2019, 10:21:52 AM
The schedule is insane for any of the internationals. I have no idea why the PL pushed the start up a week.

City and Liverpool barely got out of second gear and cruised. It's a two horse race unless Alisson's injury is severe. He's that important to LFC.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 12, 2019, 10:37:38 AM
The schedule is insane for any of the internationals. I have no idea why the PL pushed the start up a week.


It has to do with the desire from the FA to have the Cup final on a weekend with no PL fixtures.  So the PL has to be done by May 17 to accommodate the Cup Final on the 23rd and the Champions League Final on the 30th.

My guess is that the PL will be pushing for less Cup replays and/or more midweek Cup dates, but the lower leagues and the FA don't like either.  They could drop the League Cup too, but that's not happening.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 12, 2019, 12:16:32 PM
The schedule is insane for any of the internationals. I have no idea why the PL pushed the start up a week.

City and Liverpool barely got out of second gear and cruised. It's a two horse race unless Alisson's injury is severe. He's that important to LFC.

Pool internationals have logged a LOT of minutes in the last 12 months
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 12, 2019, 12:27:54 PM
So week one of the Prem in the books, and surprise, it looks like it's really only going to be a two horse race again.  City made West Ham look like a high school team and Liverpool looked equally impressive against (an admittedly bad) Norwich side.  Spurs and Arsenal both looked so-so for long stretches and Sundays' United Chelsea game was more about how Chelsea couldn't strengthen and have a rookie manager rather than United being "back".  Expect top two to be another slug-fest, and then a solid 15-20 point drop off.

Spurs at city next weekend.  Could be an indicator for the season.  Will city cruise to victory?  Or will Spurs off season moves make them the 3rd horse in the race?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 12, 2019, 12:52:33 PM
Spurs at city next weekend.  Could be an indicator for the season.  Will city cruise to victory?  Or will Spurs off season moves make them the 3rd horse in the race?

Saturday's match really showed how important Eriksen is to Spurs, especially with no Dele. He needs to start this week, and the club ought to be backing up the Brinks truck to extend him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 12, 2019, 12:56:50 PM
Saturday's match really showed how important Eriksen is to Spurs, especially with no Dele. He needs to start this week, and the club ought to be backing up the Brinks truck to extend him.

No Son either, he was suspended for that BS red. 

Need to resign CE, with a low release clause for Barca and RM, asap.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 12, 2019, 10:30:44 PM
City and Liverpool barely got out of second gear and cruised. It's a two horse race unless Alisson's injury is severe. He's that important to LFC.

Supposedly 3-4 weeks with a calf injury. It’s not an Achilles which was my primary fear.

Mourhino joins the Sky Sports pundits and immediately comes out with gold. The only 4 clubs with a shot to win the title are City, Liverpool, Spurs, and City’s reserves. He’s gonna be so good in the studio
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 18, 2019, 08:34:58 AM
So who ever thought that VAR would be the end of controversial decisions?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 18, 2019, 08:54:58 AM
So who ever thought that VAR would be the end of controversial decisions?

The rule may be bad, but the decision/VAR was correct.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on August 18, 2019, 08:57:02 AM
Helluva way to not get the win.   However, the rule was interpreted correctly. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 18, 2019, 09:24:48 AM
The rule may be bad, but the decision/VAR was correct.

Consistency seems to be the problem. Don't know how it missed what should have been a penalty for City in the first half.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 18, 2019, 09:40:35 AM
Consistency seems to be the problem. Don't know how it missed what should have been a penalty for City in the first half.

Whether it was or wasn't a penalty (it probably was) is subjective.
Whether the ball hit the guy's arm is objective.
I get why Man City fans are unhappy with the result, but these are not similar calls.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 18, 2019, 11:29:16 AM
Whether it was or wasn't a penalty (it probably was) is subjective.
Whether the ball hit the guy's arm is objective.
I get why Man City fans are unhappy with the result, but these are not similar calls.

The point is that if you have the means and desire to slow down and zoom in the replay, which you would need to see the handball, there is no excuse for missing that penalty.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 18, 2019, 11:40:16 AM
The point is that if you have the means and desire to slow down and zoom in the replay, which you would need to see the handball, there is no excuse for missing that penalty.

OK, but so what? Are you really arguing that because the replay official arguably missed a subjective call earlier in the game, he/she shouldn't have made the correct objective call later?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 18, 2019, 11:45:08 AM
OK, but so what? Are you really arguing that because the replay official arguably missed a subjective call earlier in the game, he/she shouldn't have made the correct objective call later?

So you're in favor of following everything to the letter of the law? Every throw in taken exactly where the ball goes out. You're giving up a counter attack, go down holding your head. Immediate stoppage in play for a head injury.  It's like calling every single travel in basketball. If you follow the laws to the letter, you kill the entertainment value.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 18, 2019, 11:56:33 AM
So you're in favor of following everything to the letter of the law? Every throw in taken exactly where the ball goes out. You're giving up a counter attack, go down holding your head. Immediate stoppage in play for a head injury.  It's like calling every single travel in basketball. If you follow the laws to the letter, you kill the entertainment value.

This seems to fly in the face of your earlier complaint about a missed call. Now you're in favor of missing calls.
I guess I don't understand your point here. Basically you're mad because of a correct call.
Fair enough.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 18, 2019, 11:59:08 AM
This seems to fly in the face of your earlier complaint about a missed call. Now you're in favor of missing calls.
I guess I don't understand your point here. Basically you're mad because of a correct call.
Fair enough.

Not at all. I just believe that in it's current state, VAR takes away from the game .
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 21, 2019, 08:49:40 AM
https://twitter.com/ForwardMSNFC/status/1163541216362999813

You gotta love minor league sports.  Go for the atmosphere more than anything.  Giving out pretzels and crosswords too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 21, 2019, 10:18:45 AM
https://twitter.com/ForwardMSNFC/status/1163541216362999813

You gotta love minor league sports.  Go for the atmosphere more than anything.  Giving out pretzels and crosswords too.

Everything about that club is corny from the name, to the flamingo usages, to the colors.  However, they are a success story early on, so I give them credit, they are doing something right.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 21, 2019, 10:30:49 AM
I've been following the stories around the English Football League and the financial problems of its members for awhile now.  The EFL are the three leagues underneath the Premier League.  Essentially one team is about to be kicked out of the League, with another team not that far behind.  And rumors are that a lot more are going to be in similar straights within the next decade.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/20/experts-warned-efl-two-years-ago-clubs-like-bolton-bury-faced/

The basic problem is that interest, and the money that follows it, is concentrating more and more at the top.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on August 21, 2019, 11:30:21 AM
Everything about that club is corny from the name, to the flamingo usages, to the colors.  However, they are a success story early on, so I give them credit, they are doing something right.

Peter is a master promoter. They're killing it at the gate so far.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 21, 2019, 12:29:21 PM
Everything about that club is corny from the name, to the flamingo usages, to the colors.  However, they are a success story early on, so I give them credit, they are doing something right.

Fun to go to, not bad soccer, reasonable prices, good atmosphere.   They have been drawing 4500 most of the summer, better than a lot of USL championship teams.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 21, 2019, 12:34:56 PM
I've been following the stories around the English Football League and the financial problems of its members for awhile now.  The EFL are the three leagues underneath the Premier League.  Essentially one team is about to be kicked out of the League, with another team not that far behind.  And rumors are that a lot more are going to be in similar straights within the next decade.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/20/experts-warned-efl-two-years-ago-clubs-like-bolton-bury-faced/

The basic problem is that interest, and the money that follows it, is concentrating more and more at the top.

Its really an interesting predicament.  The way I see it, and sort of understand it, is promotion, especially to the Premier League, is tantamount to making a substantial capital investment in your company. 

Looking at it through that lens, That first year is rough, cause you're spending on machinery, personnel, etc..  But once the orders and sales come in, things stabilize and you're ok.  But if you don't make it to year 2 and the sales that follow, you're in trouble.

Similar for these clubs.  You're forced to invest in higher wages for better players, outspending your revenue coming in, and you've not yet got the "bump" from being an EPL club.  If you get sent down straight away, its a financial disaster.  I looked, and clubs like Brighton, Huddersfield, Burnley who got up, spent reasonably and stayed up, turned nice profits last year.  Bournemouth is another example, they ran a loss but a lot of it was due to debt from buying out their minority owners.

The EFL has 2 real options it seems.  Either get some sort of funds distribution from the EPL (unlikely) or explore better TV deals.  The US appetite for soccer continues to increase.  A lesser network taking on Championship matches and maybe a weekly League One match makes a ton of sense.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 21, 2019, 12:44:05 PM
Its really an interesting predicament.  The way I see it, and sort of understand it, is promotion, especially to the Premier League, is tantamount to making a substantial capital investment in your company. 

Looking at it through that lens, That first year is rough, cause you're spending on machinery, personnel, etc..  But once the orders and sales come in, things stabilize and you're ok.  But if you don't make it to year 2 and the sales that follow, you're in trouble.

Similar for these clubs.  You're forced to invest in higher wages for better players, outspending your revenue coming in, and you've not yet got the "bump" from being an EPL club.  If you get sent down straight away, its a financial disaster.  I looked, and clubs like Brighton, Huddersfield, Burnley who got up, spent reasonably and stayed up, turned nice profits last year.  Bournemouth is another example, they ran a loss but a lot of it was due to debt from buying out their minority owners.

The EFL has 2 real options it seems.  Either get some sort of funds distribution from the EPL (unlikely) or explore better TV dealsThe US appetite for soccer continues to increase.  A lesser network taking on Championship matches and maybe a weekly League One match makes a ton of sense.

I think that this is really the only option.  We're still so vastly untapped compared to many of the other huge markets out there.  Throw in that the unpredictability is so much larger at the lower divisions and you can really pour it on.  Weird that IMO, we're seen as the most viable long term solution for aspects of English soccer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 21, 2019, 12:51:11 PM
The Championship used to be on BEIN Sports.  They would show a game every week and it was pretty good stuff.  Still have big crowds and decent play at that level.  I guess ESPN now owns the rights and you can only get games on ESPN+.

Another option could be that they need to convert League One and Two to semi-pro and/or amateaur status.  Maybe I don't understand the cost structure enough but I think most third and fourth tier leagues in Europe have that status.  Even in Germany and Spain.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 21, 2019, 02:52:17 PM
The Championship used to be on BEIN Sports.  They would show a game every week and it was pretty good stuff.  Still have big crowds and decent play at that level.  I guess ESPN now owns the rights and you can only get games on ESPN+.

I remember that.  I didn't know the extent to which ESPN+ was showing.  Its definitely still high level play, and you have many "familiar" clubs, over half the current Championship has been in the EPL sometime in the last decade.  They have large stadiums, recognizable names and players.  Hell, I'm pretty sure cutting out the inflated DP salaries, Championship has significantly higher wages than MLS.

I think that this is really the only option.  We're still so vastly untapped compared to many of the other huge markets out there.  Throw in that the unpredictability is so much larger at the lower divisions and you can really pour it on.  Weird that IMO, we're seen as the most viable long term solution for aspects of English soccer.

Well, the money is in merchandise and TV rights.  So for that to grow, you need new markets.  The rest of Europe has their own domestic clubs and comps to pay attention to.  It leaves the US and Asia, and the time difference doesn't make it super conducive to go hard there, outside of the EPL names.  Weird a bit, but in the global sense, doesn't seem that odd at all.  NFL and NBA look at the UK as a growth market and potential growth solutions, which is more odd to me.

Another option could be that they need to convert League One and Two to semi-pro and/or amateaur status.  Maybe I don't understand the cost structure enough but I think most third and fourth tier leagues in Europe have that status.  Even in Germany and Spain.

Germany and Spain go down to 3rd.  And then the 4th begins semi-pro.  But the difference there, is the 3rd division is littered with the youth (B) squads of La Liga and Bundesliga clubs.  So I think that changes the whole dynamic as it pertains to funding, profit sharing, etc...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 25, 2019, 01:01:37 PM
I've been following the stories around the English Football League and the financial problems of its members for awhile now.  The EFL are the three leagues underneath the Premier League.  Essentially one team is about to be kicked out of the League, with another team not that far behind.  And rumors are that a lot more are going to be in similar straights within the next decade.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/20/experts-warned-efl-two-years-ago-clubs-like-bolton-bury-faced/

The basic problem is that interest, and the money that follows it, is concentrating more and more at the top.

The incentives to get to the top are also bigger than ever before. That's why the Championship Playoff is football's richest game. The winner is in line for a $200M+ windfall for making the Prem. There's actually discussion that teams making the EPL do so in hopes of getting relegated shortly thereafter so they can build a young, high quality Championship team that can then get promoted again and stick around.

As a Reading supporter, I've seen both sides. The record setting 2006 campaign led to two EPL seasons with a young foundation of legit Prem players like Steve Sidwell, Marcus Hahnemann, Nickey Shorey, Kevin Doyle, and others. But after relegation and an unsuccessful return attempt, those stars mostly left. A rebuild saw another single season return, but it's been a mix of playoff losses and relegation (from the Championship) battles.

In the front office, the stability from John Madejski ended when he sold to a Russian oil oligarch, who ran out of money and sold to another billionaire, then another. We're on owner #4 in the past decade, all chasing the riches of the Premier League. The trend is usually the same. New owner, new manager, spend big, challenge for promotion, lose the roster when everyone leaves, spiral toward relegation.

Right now we're on the upward trend. New owner (Dai Yongge) hired a new manager (Jose Gomes) who saved us from relegation last year. We spent big, bringing in Ovie Ejaria from Liverpool, Matt Miazga from Chelsea, Rafael Cabral from Sampdoria, and George Puscas from Inter Milan, among others. The team looks primed for promotion, but I'm already worried what 2-3 years from now might look like.

There's just such a wealth disparity from the PL to the EFL, and so many trying to enter the PL on the cheap by buying a lower league team and bailing if they don't deliver promotion.

If English football as we know it is to survive, I think they need more shared revenue from the Prem to the lower leagues. Without that, this already near unbreachable divide will only grow larger.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on August 25, 2019, 02:09:42 PM
I've been following the stories around the English Football League and the financial problems of its members for awhile now.  The EFL are the three leagues underneath the Premier League.  Essentially one team is about to be kicked out of the League, with another team not that far behind.  And rumors are that a lot more are going to be in similar straights within the next decade.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/20/experts-warned-efl-two-years-ago-clubs-like-bolton-bury-faced/

The basic problem is that interest, and the money that follows it, is concentrating more and more at the top.

If you haven’t watched Sunderland Till I Die on Netflix it’s a great profile on what a relegated squad has to deal with in terms of roster and community support. And those fans are lunatics!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 25, 2019, 05:58:51 PM
The Championship is some of the most fun football Ive ever seen.

Obviously it’s a step down from the Prem in terms of pure player quality, but man those games are a blast.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 25, 2019, 08:05:31 PM
The Championship is some of the most fun football Ive ever seen.

Obviously it’s a step down from the Prem in terms of pure player quality, but man those games are a blast.

The Championship is fantastic, especially because it's actually unpredictable. I miss having it on BeIn every week.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 25, 2019, 08:37:26 PM
If English football as we know it is to survive, I think they need more shared revenue from the Prem to the lower leagues. Without that, this already near unbreachable divide will only grow larger.


I'm not sure that the EPL teams care all that much about "English football as we know it."  In today's age, I'm not sure it's sustainable because it's based on television revenue and the viewership that goes along with that.  Why go out and watch some local League 2 team play when Man City and Liverpool  are playing on television?

They may just need to implement salary caps at these lower leagues.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 25, 2019, 09:42:09 PM

I'm not sure that the EPL teams care all that much about "English football as we know it."  In today's age, I'm not sure it's sustainable because it's based on television revenue and the viewership that goes along with that.  Why go out and watch some local League 2 team play when Man City and Liverpool  are playing on television?

Probably for some of the same reasons tens of thousands of people fill college football and basketball stadiums every Saturday when the Patriots, Cowboys, Warriors and Lakers are on TV ..
 i.e. tradition, local pride, the in-person experience, it's the only game in town, etc.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 26, 2019, 07:51:51 AM
Probably for some of the same reasons tens of thousands of people fill college football and basketball stadiums every Saturday when the Patriots, Cowboys, Warriors and Lakers are on TV ..


Except college football doesn't go up against the NFL.  And college basketball largely avoids the meat of the NBA season.  And regular season attendance for both is decreasing anyway.

But the point is that those two sports are less dependent on attendance as they are on television revenue.  And they aren't professional either.  My guess is that if League 1 or 2 were semi-pro or amateur, their cost model would allow them to be more profitable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 26, 2019, 08:59:38 AM

I'm not sure that the EPL teams care all that much about "English football as we know it."  In today's age, I'm not sure it's sustainable because it's based on television revenue and the viewership that goes along with that.  Why go out and watch some local League 2 team play when Man City and Liverpool  are playing on television?

They may just need to implement salary caps at these lower leagues.

I don't expect them to care, I don't expect this to change, but the Football League is awesome, and in many ways more entertaining than the top flights where only 3-4 teams are actually competing for the top spots. It would also be tough to have a cap that allows any roster consistency when teams with hundred million pound budget are relegated. There's no easy answer, it's just disappointing to see because pro/rel is one of the best things about European football.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 26, 2019, 09:35:59 AM

Except college football doesn't go up against the NFL.  And college basketball largely avoids the meat of the NBA season.  And regular season attendance for both is decreasing anyway.

Are you suggesting the primary reason 100k fans pack the Big House or Kyle Field or Death Valley is because the Lions, Cowboys and Saints don't play on Saturdays? I'm not sure that's true.
Not sure what you define as the "meat" of the NBA season, but let's say from Christmas through the playoffs. In which case, there's a substantial overlap between the two seasons. A large majority of NBA gamesd, even if you include playoffs, occur during the college basketball season.
And if we're talking about attendance, of course college football (and basketball) go against their pro counterparts. It's not as if people have their "Saturday" discretionary income/free time and "Sunday" discretionary income/free time. 

As for declining attendance, I've read quite a bit about it, and there are plenty of plausibke reasons for it. But not once have I heard or read it suggested that attendance is declining "because people would rather watch the NFL/NBA."


And the rest, not sure that's relevant to the question you asked (and I answered) as to why a person would go out to watch a lower-level competition when they can watch the top flight on TV.
The reality is people do that around the world in droves (MiLB, MLS, KHL hockey, etc.), for the reasons I mentioned.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 26, 2019, 09:44:58 AM
Pakuni, yes I think if college football teams went up against the NFL, college football would suffer from the lack of attention in most areas of the country.  Locally, UW attendance would be much less if they went up against the Packers.  Ditto for most places in the Big Ten. 

But here is an excellent "research report" from England.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/premier-league-epl-efl-league-one-two-championship-miguel-delaney-a8926126.html

"Research by figures who have worked with the lower leagues suggest that most 18- to 24-year-olds now consume sport in a totally different way.

Priced out of many stadiums, they have alternative interests and prefer to watch games digitally because it allows more intense conversation on social media and WhatsApp. There, they can immediately access replays of goals and discuss them. This is where the huge focus of the top clubs has an even greater effect, especially in terms of digital interaction. That’s before you even get to the bigger debate over how e-sports, and playing football on consoles, are more popular than playing it on grass.

“If you’re a teenager and you have access to Fifa, social media, live Premier League and Champions League games, and you can play yourself, where does going to Wigan Athletic games for £20 a pop fit into that?” one government source said.

Even the language lower league clubs use to sell tickets is now completely different.

“The old-school dad-and-lad approach regarding your induction into football doesn’t exist to the same extent it used to,” Maguire argues. “And also going along with your schoolmates, because people can stream, and have access to so many matches.

“So, for League One and League Two clubs, they’re now competing on a Tuesday and Wednesday night with Champions League football. And, with the best will in the world, if it is Doncaster Rovers against Colchester United, it has limited appeal when you’ve got the glamour and the glitz of the Champions League matches – which cost relatively less to consume. You don’t have to get out of the house, where you can be online.”
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 26, 2019, 09:58:06 AM
I dunno man, I’d rather watch some league two football, over some of those Champions League group stage matchups.

Fulham in the Championship rivaled any Premier League game environment. Sutton (post-FA cup run) was a blast as well, and they weren’t even League Football.

It really all depends on context though. To use the NFL/NCAA example, it the Bears are hot garbage and played on the same day as Northwestern, you best believe I’m going to that Northwestern game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 26, 2019, 10:08:28 AM
Pakuni, yes I think if college football teams went up against the NFL, college football would suffer from the lack of attention in most areas of the country.  Locally, UW attendance would be much less if they went up against the Packers.  Ditto for most places in the Big Ten.

This varies greatly by the part of the country you live in. If the NFL went up against college in Florida, I have zero doubt whatsoever FSU, Florida, or Miami wouldn't be struggling for attendance, though the Jaguars, Bucs, and Dolphins certainly would be. I suspect the same is true in Texas and most of the southern states.

I don't want to dive too deep into that well, but there is still interest in the smaller leagues, and often it is just as passionate as the interest in the top flights. I do think they need to find more creative ways to keep bringing fans in, and feel it's more difficult as the wealth gap grows, but there is an interest there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 26, 2019, 10:15:34 AM
This varies greatly by the part of the country you live in. If the NFL went up against college in Florida, I have zero doubt whatsoever FSU, Florida, or Miami wouldn't be struggling for attendance, though the Jaguars, Bucs, and Dolphins certainly would be. I suspect the same is true in Texas and most of the southern states.

Which is why I said "in most areas of the country."

As for college football attendance in Florida...

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/florida-gators/2018/12/04/florida-gators-fsu-football-had-worst-attendance-years-since-the-90s/

That average attendance for FSU is actually less than the Jacksonville Jaguars draw.  And the Miami Dolphins routinely outdraw the Hurricanes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 26, 2019, 01:45:04 PM
Pakuni, yes I think if college football teams went up against the NFL, college football would suffer from the lack of attention in most areas of the country.  Locally, UW attendance would be much less if they went up against the Packers.  Ditto for most places in the Big Ten. 

You're answering a question nobody asked.
And making a weird (and obviously false) assumption that the people who go to college football games are the same people who go to NFL games. Except for perhaps an infinitesimally small number of fans, people don't attend a college game on Saturday and then a pro game on Sunday.
And I don't think fans would abandon their college season tickets in droves because the nearest NFL team plays on the same day. They'd just DVR the game they're missing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 26, 2019, 02:53:06 PM
You're answering a question nobody asked.
And making a weird (and obviously false) assumption that the people who go to college football games are the same people who go to NFL games. Except for perhaps an infinitesimally small number of fans, people don't attend a college game on Saturday and then a pro game on Sunday.
And I don't think fans would abandon their college season tickets in droves because the nearest NFL team plays on the same day. They'd just DVR the game they're missing.



I think a fair number of UW season ticket holders would stay home and watch a Packer game instead of attending a Badger game.

But regardless, what is happening in League 1 and 2 isn't a hypothetical.  It is actually happening.  People aren't attending the games.  There seems to be less loyalty to the local clubs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 26, 2019, 03:04:25 PM

I think a fair number of UW season ticket holders would stay home and watch a Packer game instead of attending a Badger game.

But regardless, what is happening in League 1 and 2 isn't a hypothetical.  It is actually happening.  People aren't attending the games.  There seems to be less loyalty to the local clubs.

I don't think it's a loyalty issue, I think it just comes down to numbers.  330 million people for 32 NLF teams (and overlap with college football happens frequently and is encouraged).  66 million people for 92 professional soccer teams (where there is very little to no overlap within the country).  The bigger clubs are still growing because if you're looking for a club to start supporting why not go for one of the big boys.  Bury's stadium is 11 miles from the Etihad and 14 from Old Trafford.  Unless you're in a Chicago/NY/LA-esque market, three professional teams cannot co-exist that close to each other.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 26, 2019, 03:18:05 PM
I don't think it's a loyalty issue, I think it just comes down to numbers.  330 million people for 32 NLF teams (and overlap with college football happens frequently and is encouraged).  66 million people for 92 professional soccer teams (where there is very little to no overlap within the country).  The bigger clubs are still growing because if you're looking for a club to start supporting why not go for one of the big boys.  Bury's stadium is 11 miles from the Etihad and 14 from Old Trafford.  Unless you're in a Chicago/NY/LA-esque market, three professional teams cannot co-exist that close to each other.

Its also 35 miles from Anfield and Goodison Park.  And covering that short distance to Liverpool, you cross over Bolton and Wigan, who have both been in the EPL within the last 6-7 years.  For a club like Bury that hasn't sniffed the top division since WWII, thats a huge problem.  Interestingly Bolton is also at a crossroads of financial problems despite their fairly recent success.

The saturation of soccer success in that M62 corridor right there is pretty impressive and a death sentence for a middling club like Bury.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 26, 2019, 03:23:13 PM
But regardless, what is happening in League 1 and 2 isn't a hypothetical.  It is actually happening.  People aren't attending the games.  There seems to be less loyalty to the local clubs.

I agree that fewer people are attending the games.
I don't agree that it's because Liverpool and Man City are on TV. Top flight matches have been on TV in the UK since the early 80s.
I think it, as with American sports, far more likely is the result of a variety of factors, including cost, convenience, the declining gameday experience, more alternatives, changing ways in which people consume entertainment, etc.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on August 26, 2019, 03:37:26 PM
Its also 35 miles from Anfield and Goodison Park.  And covering that short distance to Liverpool, you cross over Bolton and Wigan, who have both been in the EPL within the last 6-7 years.  For a club like Bury that hasn't sniffed the top division since WWII, thats a huge problem.  Interestingly Bolton is also at a crossroads of financial problems despite their fairly recent success.

The saturation of soccer success in that M62 corridor right there is pretty impressive and a death sentence for a middling club like Bury.

One could actually make the argument, given the modern infrastructure, entertainment experience, that there are simply too many clubs in the system. A lot of these clubs pre-date WWII where people didn't leave their town much so they supported their local club because it was the only option. I argue that this is actually evidence of the need for contraction within the PL/EFL system to reduce the club footprint.

As an example, the greater London metro complex has 9.7 million people (roughly 30% more people than the greater MKE complex) and is home to 5 PL clubs, 5 EFL Championship clubs, and one each of EFL One and EFL Two. 12 clubs serving 9.7 million people? Even if you treated every team the same in the MKE market you get what 8 sports teams that are significant draws (Bucks, Brewers, Marquette MBB, Packers, Badger MBB, Badger Football, UW Milwaukee, Admirals) and that would have to include the Madison area as well if we include the Badgers.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 26, 2019, 06:12:57 PM
It's also worth acknowledging the PL & EFL are not an exhaustive list of the clubs in England. There were 736 teams in last year's FA Cup. There are literally hundreds of teams that could theoretically be in the Premier League in the next 10-15 years.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 27, 2019, 10:15:19 AM
https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2019/august/volunteers-needed/

300 people showed up to clean for free.  A food truck showed up to feed everyone for free.  Even Bolton sent over some help (https://twitter.com/buryfcofficial/status/1166352831613476864).  They can't even afford to get a full mascot suit, but they still have support.  I don't think anyone's loyalty should be questioned.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 28, 2019, 08:51:26 AM
https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2019/august/volunteers-needed/

300 people showed up to clean for free.  A food truck showed up to feed everyone for free.  Even Bolton sent over some help (https://twitter.com/buryfcofficial/status/1166352831613476864).  They can't even afford to get a full mascot suit, but they still have support.  I don't think anyone's loyalty should be questioned.


Bury's been booted from the Football League.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 28, 2019, 09:51:01 AM
Really unfortunate to see the Bury news. Terrible for the fans and players
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 28, 2019, 10:11:31 AM
https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states/story/3930312/pulisic-leads-usmnt-roster-destpomykal-called-up

September friendlies roster.  Dest, Pomykal, and Sargent all there, and more importantly no Bradley.  Unfortunately Ream and Zardes made it, hopefully they won't see any game time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 28, 2019, 10:54:04 AM
https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states/story/3930312/pulisic-leads-usmnt-roster-destpomykal-called-up

September friendlies roster.  Dest, Pomykal, and Sargent all there, and more importantly no Bradley.  Unfortunately Ream and Zardes made it, hopefully they won't see any game time.

Bradley is a solid leader. Don't mind his inclusion in the next few camps, but doesn't need the playing time.

Along with Ream and Zardes, I'd include Trapp and Morris

Excited for the young talent.

Thoughts on Nagbe telling Berhalter "no" multiple times?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on August 28, 2019, 01:39:52 PM
Bolton survives, at least- https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/28/bolton-wanderers-football-ventures-takeover

It's sad to see clubs like Bolton, Pompey, etc. go through this. It can even happen to the big boys, Liverpool were on the brink of administration before John Henry bought them.

I think any discussions to prevent these situations have to start with better vetting of ownership groups, and some sort of shared revenue system from the PL down.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 28, 2019, 03:38:31 PM
Bradley is a solid leader. Don't mind his inclusion in the next few camps, but doesn't need the playing time.

Along with Ream and Zardes, I'd include Trapp and Morris

Excited for the young talent.

Thoughts on Nagbe telling Berhalter "no" multiple times?

Totally agree.  Trapp is fine as camp and bench support, but he doesn't need to be taking minutes away from all the potential in the midfield.
 
Jordan Morris I'm completely done with as well.  His decision about Werder Bremen told me all I needed about his potential. He wanted to play in the familiar and safe surroundings of his hometown, thats great, but between that and injury, he's plateaued.  He'll be a productive MLS player for years, but again, there is so much exciting talent that is out there cutting their teeth against the world's best, not feasting on lesser competition in MLS.  Next man up.


Bolton survives, at least- https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/28/bolton-wanderers-football-ventures-takeover

It's sad to see clubs like Bolton, Pompey, etc. go through this. It can even happen to the big boys, Liverpool were on the brink of administration before John Henry bought them.

I think any discussions to prevent these situations have to start with better vetting of ownership groups, and some sort of shared revenue system from the PL down.

Any potential owners need to be willing to invest.  Hopefully, over time the clubs become self sufficient, but too many owners try to do things on the cheap for any number of reasons.  Success is the biggest revenue driver, especially in this day and age.  The pre-Henry admin was notoriously stingy.  You don't have to splash money like PSG or Man City, but make investments in your club, in marketing, in fan experience.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 28, 2019, 06:21:57 PM
Re. Morris and Trapp, I guess I only partly agree. I don't think Trapp will or should have a spot nailed down in the starting XI. However, if you need someone to come into the midfield and work hard for 30 minutes to help kill off a game, I think he can fill that role fine.

I'm not yet ready to write off Morris just yet. Coming back from and injury like that even once you're %100, it still takes some more time to really get fully back.  The fact that he wouldn't/wont go to Europe frustrates me, and he'll never reach his full potential here in the states, but even without reaching his ceiling I think he's good enough for a place in the squad (at least for now).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 28, 2019, 06:29:11 PM
Champions league group stage draw is tomorrow.

A fun little simulator:
https://draw.inker.one/#/cl/gs (https://draw.inker.one/#/cl/gs)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on August 28, 2019, 07:06:16 PM
https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states/story/3930312/pulisic-leads-usmnt-roster-destpomykal-called-up

September friendlies roster.  Dest, Pomykal, and Sargent all there, and more importantly no Bradley.  Unfortunately Ream and Zardes made it, hopefully they won't see any game time.

Sargent and Ream are both from St. Louis. I would be surprised if both didn't play there v Uruguay.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 28, 2019, 07:07:51 PM
What’s funny about Ream is that he had been so solid for Fulham over the years, but hasn’t really been great for the US.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 28, 2019, 07:32:57 PM
Re. Morris and Trapp, I guess I only partly agree. I don't think Trapp will or should have a spot nailed down in the starting XI. However, if you need someone to come into the midfield and work hard for 30 minutes to help kill off a game, I think he can fill that role fine.

I'm not yet ready to write off Morris just yet. Coming back from and injury like that even once you're %100, it still takes some more time to really get fully back.  The fact that he wouldn't/wont go to Europe frustrates me, and he'll never reach his full potential here in the states, but even without reaching his ceiling I think he's good enough for a place in the squad (at least for now).

I'd rather have Bradley in that role.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 28, 2019, 07:45:19 PM
I'd rather have Bradley in that role.

He wont be around for Qatar to play that role so why waste minutes on him now?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 29, 2019, 10:14:16 AM
Re. Morris and Trapp, I guess I only partly agree. I don't think Trapp will or should have a spot nailed down in the starting XI. However, if you need someone to come into the midfield and work hard for 30 minutes to help kill off a game, I think he can fill that role fine.

I'm not yet ready to write off Morris just yet. Coming back from and injury like that even once you're %100, it still takes some more time to really get fully back.  The fact that he wouldn't/wont go to Europe frustrates me, and he'll never reach his full potential here in the states, but even without reaching his ceiling I think he's good enough for a place in the squad (at least for now).

I don't disagree on Trapp.  Thats sort of what I meant. He's a reliable sub, I just don't want to see him starting or being a key component.

Your last sentence sums up my feelings on Morris.  He's never going to reach full potential, and he appears fine with that.  He'll be 27/28 by Qatar.  Not ancient, but not youngish.  Id rather see more out of Weah, Novakovich, Amon, hell id rather have Arriola on the wing, cause I think he moves abroad this winter.

If you're talking 24 year old forwards, I want Tyler Boyd getting minutes 10/10 times over Morris
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 02, 2019, 11:05:59 AM
Disappointed to see USMNT forward and one-time Marquette commit Andrija Novakovich leave Reading FC today. The Muskego native is headed to Serie B side Frosinone.

Despite two highly successful loan spells, Novakovich never caught on at Reading. The addition of two strikers in the window likely ended any hopes he had of breaking into the starting eleven.

Hoping he gets more time in Italy, really wish it would've worked at my favorite club.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 03, 2019, 10:29:24 AM
Disappointed to see USMNT forward and one-time Marquette commit Andrija Novakovich leave Reading FC today. The Muskego native is headed to Serie B side Frosinone.

Despite two highly successful loan spells, Novakovich never caught on at Reading. The addition of two strikers in the window likely ended any hopes he had of breaking into the starting eleven.

Hoping he gets more time in Italy, really wish it would've worked at my favorite club.

You obviously know more than me, as its your club, but it just smacks of new manager, so he wants "his guys".  They brought in Joao and Puscas on transfer.  Shipped out their second leading scorer up top, and sent off Novakovich after he returned from loan.  Puscas has started nicely, but he certainly wasn't setting the world on fire before they brought him in.  And Joao is just a bit more experienced.  Seems like Novakovich could have led the Eredivisie in scoring while on loan and it wouldn't have mattered.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2019, 12:34:01 PM
New Spurs 3rd kit is nice
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 03, 2019, 12:46:20 PM
New Spurs 3rd kit is nice
Copying the champions color scheme won't make you play like them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 03, 2019, 01:41:22 PM
New Spurs 3rd kit is nice

I think they are sharp.  Personally found the 3rd last year to be dreadful.

Really like Liverpool's 3rd this year.  Might snag a top for myself.  Their aways are clean and reminiscint of England's but, don't do much for me.  Anything is better than the purple people eaters last year.  Wish they would return to the more historical yellow away kits.

I'm personally a big fan of rotating, completely off the wall away kits.  Its a cool juxtaposition as so many of the English kits are rooted in very cool classic looks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 03, 2019, 01:56:10 PM
I think they are sharp.  Personally found the 3rd last year to be dreadful.

Really like Liverpool's 3rd this year.  Might snag a top for myself.  Their aways are clean and reminiscint of England's but, don't do much for me.  Anything is better than the purple people eaters last year.  Wish they would return to the more historical yellow away kits.

I'm personally a big fan of rotating, completely off the wall away kits.  Its a cool juxtaposition as so many of the English kits are rooted in very cool classic looks.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I've ever seen a third kit that I've liked.  Everybody either just goes way to far over the top with it on a weird level (West Brom, Barnsley) or does something so simple it looks boring.

Both Athletico Madrid and Borussia Dortmund always have really clean kits, and I also really like West Ham's this year too.  Also whenever anybody does a throwback that doesn't have a sponsorship on the front it turns out really well done (City in the Community Shield or Huddersfield for example).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 03, 2019, 02:18:16 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I've ever seen a third kit that I've liked.  Everybody either just goes way to far over the top with it on a weird level (West Brom, Barnsley) or does something so simple it looks boring.

Both Athletico Madrid and Borussia Dortmund always have really clean kits, and I also really like West Ham's this year too.  Also whenever anybody does a throwback that doesn't have a sponsorship on the front it turns out really well done (City in the Community Shield or Huddersfield for example).

Isn't the Barnsley 3rd just a half and half?  The style of their away kit but with the traditional red and white?  I feel like thats not very over the top.  The West Brom magic eye ones suck, i agree there.

I prefer an away that is a solid color with a contrasting accent.  Some are good, some are odd.  As long as they don't use their traditional rivals colors in some way, im good.  Thirds all depend for me.  I like when a club uses black if its not a traditional color for them (like LFC does) or something neon that is bizarre enough to work.  I think as long as its a 50/50 split, the club is happy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 03, 2019, 02:43:02 PM
Isn't the Barnsley 3rd just a half and half?  The style of their away kit but with the traditional red and white?  I feel like thats not very over the top.  The West Brom magic eye ones suck, i agree there.

Yep, my bad.  I saw a terribly over the top design and just assumed it was their third, when it's actually their away.
https://www.barnsleyfcdirect.co.uk/#

I prefer an away that is a solid color with a contrasting accent.  Some are good, some are odd.  As long as they don't use their traditional rivals colors in some way, im good.  Thirds all depend for me.  I like when a club uses black if its not a traditional color for them (like LFC does) or something neon that is bizarre enough to work.  I think as long as its a 50/50 split, the club is happy.

I think an away depends on your color scheme.  For example, Crystal Palace has a similar style with their home and away, red and blue vertical stripes, just add black for the away, and they both look really good.  Wolves have a solid set this year too because they kept the orange and black and just switched the hierarchy.  When your color scheme goes too far from the original (Everton, Southampton, Norwich) it just looks bad.

The good.
https://shop.cpfc.co.uk/# (also props to their retro one)
https://shop.wolves.co.uk/

The bad.
https://evertondirect.evertonfc.com/stores/everton/en/c/football-kits/away-kit (Angry Birds also has to be the worst sleeve sponsor ever)
https://store.saintsfc.co.uk/Product/ProductItem?id=0000-17282
https://shop.canaries.co.uk/kit/away-kit/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 03, 2019, 03:53:05 PM
You obviously know more than me, as its your club, but it just smacks of new manager, so he wants "his guys".  They brought in Joao and Puscas on transfer.  Shipped out their second leading scorer up top, and sent off Novakovich after he returned from loan.  Puscas has started nicely, but he certainly wasn't setting the world on fire before they brought him in.  And Joao is just a bit more experienced.  Seems like Novakovich could have led the Eredivisie in scoring while on loan and it wouldn't have mattered.

I don't disagree. He would've fit well for Jaap Stam or Paul Clement (well, stylistically, I'm not sure anyone fit well under Clement) but Gomes is focused on pace and passing. Nova's highlight reel was excellent and the success of Marcus Hahnemann, Bobby Convey, Danny Williams, and Matt Miazga had me optimistic another American could break through at the Madejski.

To be fair, both Joao and Puscas have been impressive since their arrival, so I wasn't surprised to see him leave. Especially considering that he's still young and has value (and probably a healthy sell-on clause). I'm sure it's the best for all involved, but I really wanted another American at Reading.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on September 03, 2019, 03:56:16 PM
I became quite fond of Liverpool's orange kit two years ago when they started demolishing the opposition in it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 03, 2019, 05:35:12 PM
Yep, my bad.  I saw a terribly over the top design and just assumed it was their third, when it's actually their away.
https://www.barnsleyfcdirect.co.uk/#

I think an away depends on your color scheme.  For example, Crystal Palace has a similar style with their home and away, red and blue vertical stripes, just add black for the away, and they both look really good.  Wolves have a solid set this year too because they kept the orange and black and just switched the hierarchy.  When your color scheme goes too far from the original (Everton, Southampton, Norwich) it just looks bad.

The good.
https://shop.cpfc.co.uk/# (also props to their retro one)
https://shop.wolves.co.uk/

The bad.
https://evertondirect.evertonfc.com/stores/everton/en/c/football-kits/away-kit (Angry Birds also has to be the worst sleeve sponsor ever)
https://store.saintsfc.co.uk/Product/ProductItem?id=0000-17282
https://shop.canaries.co.uk/kit/away-kit/

Visit Rwanda would like to disagree with your angry birds worst ever assessment.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on September 03, 2019, 08:01:26 PM
Visit Rwanda would like to disagree with your angry birds worst ever assessment.

And Western Union can help send the cash the deposed prince of Rwanda asked for in that email.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 03, 2019, 08:13:38 PM
Rwanda is actually a pretty safe place. Perhaps the safest in Africa. A lot of eco-tourism.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 04, 2019, 12:29:56 AM
Rwanda is actually a pretty safe place. Perhaps the safest in Africa. A lot of eco-tourism.

I’d argue Botswana. Kind of the shining example of politicians stability and economic development in Africa over the last few decades. I have colleagues who say they feel safer there than India and most of Asia. But Rwanda has been pretty remarkable in turning the country around since the genocide.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 06, 2019, 08:34:39 PM
And that's why you don't rush kids into the 1st team. Dest has a high ceiling but that was pretty embarrassing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 06, 2019, 10:09:50 PM
Gotta say, only American that didn't disappoint was Cannon, maybe Morris. Pulisic tried to do too much, Boyd and McKennie were invisible, Steffen and Sargent's mistakes were obvious and inflated.  Let's see what comes Tuesday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 07, 2019, 06:50:39 AM
Felt like Mexico had relatively little possession, but always in the final third and always looking dangerous, while we kept the ball for stretches, but always under pressure and never amounting to much positive. The gulf between us looked wide last night.

I read an article today about Berhalter wanting to play possession football and not just hoof it up the pitch, but it feels like he's still trying to install a club style of play when you need to be less tactically complex at the international level. Feels like he's a bit out of his depth, though maybe they shouldn't have waited 14 damn months to bring in a replacement.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on September 07, 2019, 08:43:35 AM
The US is slow and technically deficient. The amount of times they ran through a player from behind like a bull in a China shop is frustrating. Constantly under pressure on the ball and constantly a step behind when pressuring. Same old same old USA has athletes not footballers.

As for Dest, he will be fine. If you play enough things like that happen. He will learn.

I was also disappointed in the attitude of the US players. I know this is subjective, but they took themselves out of the game mentally. Bottom line, still not good enough technically.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 10, 2019, 05:05:48 PM
As expected, both Sargent and Ream will play tonight v Uruguay in their hometown of St. Louis.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 10, 2019, 05:16:29 PM
As expected, both Sargent and Ream will play tonight v Uruguay in their hometown of St. Louis.

Perfect chance to thank Ream for his contributions with a mini-testimonial at home in STL...and then stop calling him up
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 10, 2019, 08:02:00 PM
Morris good. Lleget good. Sargent good. Yuell surprising. Ream competent with the long ball.

Boyd should have finished. Should have been a PK. Should have been 2-0 at half.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 12, 2019, 09:16:23 AM
https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/3941053/prem-refs-chief-admits-to-four-big-errors-by-var

So they're now admitting that VAR hasn't been right all the time.  I'll say again

So who ever thought that VAR would be the end of controversial decisions?

Getting six calls right and four wrong is far too inconsistent when the whole reason it was introduced was to get the call right every time.  The four admitted mistakes also doesn't include that terrible decision against Grealish and Villa, the Kane dive against Arsenal, and the Lamela penalty against City.  The amount of times that VAR has benefited Spurs (both correctly and incorrectly) is starting to get suspicious.  Have they had a VAR decision go against them yet? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 12, 2019, 09:48:16 AM
https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/3941053/prem-refs-chief-admits-to-four-big-errors-by-var

So they're now admitting that VAR hasn't been right all the time.  I'll say again

Getting six calls right and four wrong is far too inconsistent when the whole reason it was introduced was to get the call right every time.  The four admitted mistakes also doesn't include that terrible decision against Grealish and Villa, the Kane dive against Arsenal, and the Lamela penalty against City.  The amount of times that VAR has benefited Spurs (both correctly and incorrectly) is starting to get suspicious.  Have they had a VAR decision go against them yet?

The foul on Kane in the box vs Newcastle was reviewed and stayed no foul.

That said:

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/-fQ0xRYc01xXBo_x5EtamIw_LgI=/1484x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/ES7X74DBKUI6TPZE3NFZ7NRKUI.jpg)

(https://cdn1.thecomeback.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/94/2019/04/VAR-offside-832x444.png)



(https://newsamed.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/The-funniest-Twitter-reaction-to-Tottenham%E2%80%99s-stunning-VAR-inspired-win-over.png)

COYS   ;D



Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 12, 2019, 09:52:49 AM
The foul on Kane in the box vs Newcastle was reviewed and stayed no foul.

Fair.  The level of consistency with VAR is still at an unacceptable level.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 12, 2019, 09:56:52 AM
Fair.  The level of consistency with VAR is still at an unacceptable level.

As a Spurs supporter, I will not disagree that they have gotten some very big breaks from VAR.

Will VAR work in the Prem or are those refs too close of a group to "show up" their fellow on-field refs by overturning calls?  The international game is different, as you have field refs and VAR officals from different countries.  Not as much of the old boys' network there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 12, 2019, 10:02:27 AM
As a Spurs supporter, I will not disagree that they have gotten some very big breaks from VAR.

Will VAR work in the Prem or are those refs too close of a group to "show up" their fellow on-field refs by overturning calls?  The international game is different, as you have field refs and VAR officals from different countries.  Not as much of the old boys' network there.

I think you nailed it.  It has been in two World Cups and the Champions League Knockout Stage with very minimal controversy, so we know that it can work.  4 weeks in the Prem and we've already had more incorrect calls than all other competitions combined.  I want to like it, I think it can get there, but in its current state, and more importantly the way it's being used in England, it takes away from the game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 12, 2019, 11:05:03 AM
I think you nailed it.  It has been in two World Cups and the Champions League Knockout Stage with very minimal controversy, so we know that it can work.  4 weeks in the Prem and we've already had more incorrect calls than all other competitions combined.  I want to like it, I think it can get there, but in its current state, and more importantly the way it's being used in England, it takes away from the game.

I think there is a definite working in period.  Hell, MLB has been using replay for a decade and there is still baffling results (saw a play at first the other night where the bag was compressed cause of the runner 's full weight on it and the ball clearly visible outside the fielders glove with daylight between the two, and they still upheld the initial OUT call).  It can work, I just think they need to get past the English BS, for lack of a better term.  I love the EPL, I'm an Anglophile, but there is so much related to soccer in that country that they need to be pulled forward kicking and screaming.

My biggest support for VAR is that if it curb flopping in any way, all the growing pains are worth it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 13, 2019, 12:19:06 PM
Hopefully good news for long-suffering Chicago Fire supporters


https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/soccer/ct-chicago-fire-joe-mansueto-20190913-n5mieeejynedtlnmqnnyhy7k4m-story.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 13, 2019, 02:19:18 PM
Hopefully good news for long-suffering Chicago Fire supporters


https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/soccer/ct-chicago-fire-joe-mansueto-20190913-n5mieeejynedtlnmqnnyhy7k4m-story.html

Dont get the move to Soldier Field.  They'll never fill it.  The stadium is Bridgeview was a nice place to watch a match.  Parking was a sh!tshow, concourses were tight but around the right capacity.

Looks like they are staying as the Fire too?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 13, 2019, 04:13:59 PM
Dont get the move to Soldier Field.  They'll never fill it.  The stadium is Bridgeview was a nice place to watch a match.  Parking was a sh!tshow, concourses were tight but around the right capacity.

Looks like they are staying as the Fire too?

Mostly, I would guess, is getting the team near the large population center.

Building a stadium in bridgeview was a HORRIBLE decision. But, I agree, it's a very nice stadium.

If they improve the team and generate attendance, they'll try for a soccer specific downtown stadium in 5-10 years. Most likely with MLS support as the league will want that market interested.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 🏀 on September 13, 2019, 04:25:28 PM
Soldier is the right move.

Fire is still one of my favorite nicknames in sports when tagged to Chicago.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 13, 2019, 04:33:13 PM
Dont get the move to Soldier Field.  They'll never fill it.  The stadium is Bridgeview was a nice place to watch a match.  Parking was a sh!tshow, concourses were tight but around the right capacity.

Looks like they are staying as the Fire too?

The stadium in Bridgeview is fine. The problem is it's in Bridgeview. It's too far from much of the fan base, no easy public transportation and the surrounding area is a ghost town.
I don't think the new ownership sees Soldier Field as a long term solution. They probably want a soccer specific stadium in the city, though the Lincoln Yards proposal apparently is dead.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 13, 2019, 05:32:11 PM
The stadium in Bridgeview is fine. The problem is it's in Bridgeview. It's too far from much of the fan base, no easy public transportation and the surrounding area is a ghost town.
I don't think the new ownership sees Soldier Field as a long term solution. They probably want a soccer specific stadium in the city, though the Lincoln Yards proposal apparently is dead.

Building the stadium was in no small part an attempt to appeal to the Hispanic community in Chicago.  But that was incredibly short sighted as it almost signaled a mentality that it needed to closely cater to that population or the team wouldn't have the fan support to succeed.  Obviously, Chicago is a rich soccer market with a lot of history, both from players rising to the national level to the old Chicago Sting.  Appealing to the locals ended up alienating a lot of twenty-somethings living in the city.  If you don't have a car or you don't do a shuttle bus from a bar, its a PAIN to get to.

The park itself is fine.  Its a bit open for my liking, considering its in a big field essentially, with no backdrop, both ends feel a bit barren.  But otherwise its a nice spot.  Soldier Field, I just worry about the crowd.  Its a rocking spot for a USMNT match with 50K+, but not sure for 15-20K max.

My personal fav that Ive been to is Toronto FC's stadium on the lake.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 21, 2019, 08:26:14 AM
All right, now I'll believe that there's not a VARspiracy to help Spurs. I think it's stupid and that the goal should have stood, but based on the standard that they've set for themselves, they had to call it back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 21, 2019, 09:01:02 AM
All right, now I'll believe that there's not a VARspiracy to help Spurs. I think it's stupid and that the goal should have stood, but based on the standard that they've set for themselves, they had to call it back.

Yeah this is hardly “clear and obvious.”

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EE_jrkAU4AA8Nl9?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 21, 2019, 09:55:13 AM
God I'd hate to be the next team to play City when they're mad. 5-0 within 18 minutes. Record for fastest 5 goals tied the record for half time lead, and Aguero went on to hit the post twice later in the half. If a team ever deserved to be relegated for a single performance, itd be this Watford team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on September 21, 2019, 11:43:02 AM
That was nuts.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cheeks on September 21, 2019, 04:04:48 PM
Harry Cane goal today was cray
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 21, 2019, 04:34:27 PM
Harry Cane goal today was cray

Who?

Incredible balance, but overall poor performance by the team. Lost their heads after the VAR decision.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cheeks on September 21, 2019, 04:41:54 PM
Who?

Incredible balance, but overall poor performance by the team. Lost their heads after the VAR decision.

Auto spell correct.  Harry Kane
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 24, 2019, 04:49:02 PM
Yikes.   Lost to a league 2 side on pens.  Thats like losing to the Flamingos.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 24, 2019, 05:38:28 PM
Yikes.   Lost to a league 2 side on pens.  Thats like losing to the Flamingos.

Crawley just off the promotion zone in League 2 and Stoke headed for relegation from the Championship at this point.  Might be on the level next year.  Stoke looking to join the Black Cats and Blackpool as the EPL regulars to plummet down a couple levels
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 24, 2019, 07:22:25 PM
Yikes.   Lost to a league 2 side on pens.  Thats like losing to the Flamingos.   

It feels like last year’s UCL final was the peak for this group.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 24, 2019, 07:26:24 PM
Crawley just off the promotion zone in League 2 and Stoke headed for relegation from the Championship at this point.  Might be on the level next year.  Stoke looking to join the Black Cats and Blackpool as the EPL regulars to plummet down a couple levels

Blackpool isn’t an “EPL regular.”  They’ve spent only one season in the top division in the last 40+ years.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 24, 2019, 09:47:11 PM
It feels like last year’s UCL final was the peak for this group.

Egad, I didn’t even see that flameout by Spurs. I assumed he was a big Brek Shea/Geoff Cameron guy and supported Stoke.

Blackpool isn’t an “EPL regular.”  They’ve spent only one season in the top division in the last 40+ years.

You’re absolutely right. I was thinking of when Blackburn Rovers went down to League One a few years ago
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 25, 2019, 02:04:30 PM
It's a blessing for a team competing in Europe to drop out of the League cup early. Fixture congestion is a curse come December for teams in the Prem competing in continental tournaments plus FA Cup and league games.

No one actually cares about the League Cup but it is always funny to poke fun at a team like Spurs losing to an opponent two levels below them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 25, 2019, 02:13:02 PM
It's a blessing for a team competing in Europe to drop out of the League cup early. Fixture congestion is a curse come December for teams in the Prem competing in continental tournaments plus FA Cup and league games.

No one actually cares about the League Cup but it is always funny to poke fun at a team like Spurs losing to an opponent two levels below them.

Poch started: Sanchez, Dier, Wanyama, Davies, Walker-Peters, Alli, and Moura, and brought Erikson, Lamela, and Son off the bench, that tells me that he cared.  It's the League Cup so it's not a huge deal, but lets not pretend like he through the U19s out there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 25, 2019, 03:44:23 PM
Poch started: Sanchez, Dier, Wanyama, Davies, Walker-Peters, Alli, and Moura, and brought Erikson, Lamela, and Son off the bench, that tells me that he cared.  It's the League Cup so it's not a huge deal, but lets not pretend like he through the U19s out there.
 

Poch can't beat teams that park the bus anymore.  Pompey this weekend will be interesting.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 25, 2019, 03:47:35 PM
  Poch can't beat teams that park the bus anymore.  Pompey this weekend will be interesting.

Isn't Pompey actually Portsmouth?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 25, 2019, 04:20:39 PM
Isn't Pompey actually Portsmouth?

Yep, Pompey is the nickname they've gone by for 120 years.  Their owner is none other than Michael Eisner
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 25, 2019, 07:35:28 PM
Isn't Pompey actually Portsmouth?

My bad.  Southampton is actually scum.

Who knew that Art Long was a Portsmouth fan?

https://www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-7500871/amp/Southampton-Portsmouth-fans-clash-police-officer-hurled-floor.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15694580576669&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fsport%2Fsportsnews%2Farticle-7500871%2FSouthampton-Portsmouth-fans-clash-police-officer-hurled-floor.html (https://www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-7500871/amp/Southampton-Portsmouth-fans-clash-police-officer-hurled-floor.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15694580576669&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fsport%2Fsportsnews%2Farticle-7500871%2FSouthampton-Portsmouth-fans-clash-police-officer-hurled-floor.html)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 25, 2019, 07:48:19 PM
It's a blessing for a team competing in Europe to drop out of the League cup early. Fixture congestion is a curse come December for teams in the Prem competing in continental tournaments plus FA Cup and league games.

No one actually cares about the League Cup but it is always funny to poke fun at a team like Spurs losing to an opponent two levels below them.

If you truly believe that, you’ll be shocked into a heart attack at the coverage of Liverpool/Arsenal and Chelsea/Man United next month. It'll be breathless. 

Also, at a club like Spuds daring to do means not winning trophies. They aren't quality enough to be picky over hardware. They play to win every competition.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 25, 2019, 09:02:40 PM
If you truly believe that, you’ll be shocked into a heart attack at the coverage of Liverpool/Arsenal and Chelsea/Man United next month. It'll be breathless. 

Also, at a club like Spuds daring to do means not winning trophies. They aren't quality enough to be picky over hardware. They play to win every competition.

Especially when one club has won something like 7 out of the last 10 domestic trophies.  For all the talent that's been at White Hart Lane the last decade, that trophy cabinet is looking pretty bare.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 26, 2019, 08:23:19 AM
Furthermore, the clubs playing in Europe didn't join it until this week and will play only two rounds before the various UEFA group stages end in December.  The semis are played before knock out rounds start up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 27, 2019, 12:21:46 PM
If you truly believe that, you’ll be shocked into a heart attack at the coverage of Liverpool/Arsenal and Chelsea/Man United next month. It'll be breathless. 

Also, at a club like Spuds daring to do means not winning trophies. They aren't quality enough to be picky over hardware. They play to win every competition.


Big matchups on paper will always bring cache to the observer, regardless of competition. Big time friendless sell out stadiums across the world, that doesn’t mean it’ll be high quality match with all top players. Those teams will still most likely field starting lineups that are much different than their starting XI’s for league/europe/fa cup comps.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 27, 2019, 12:31:51 PM
Furthermore, the clubs playing in Europe didn't join it until this week and will play only two rounds before the various UEFA group stages end in December.  The semis are played before knock out rounds start up.


December/January brings FA cup 3rd round, busy Christmas league schedule, closing of Champions League group stage and possibly League Cup games. Right when you think you’re out of the busy game schedule, congratulations make the semis of the League Cup and you’re given a two legged playoff! Fantastic….. All for qualification into the black hole that is Europa league. Big clubs don’t need the League Cup unless of course they have the squad players to make a deep run.

Given the choice, no manager or fan for that matter would prioritize League Cup ahead of the other three competitions listed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 12:36:23 PM

Big matchups on paper will always bring cache to the observer, regardless of competition. Big time friendless sell out stadiums across the world, that doesn’t mean it’ll be high quality match with all top players. Those teams will still most likely field starting lineups that are much different than their starting XI’s for league/europe/fa cup comps.

That's occasionally the case, although when you look at who Poch played it clearly isn't.


December/January brings FA cup 3rd round, busy Christmas league schedule, closing of Champions League group stage and possibly League Cup games. Right when you think you’re out of the busy game schedule, congratulations make the semis of the League Cup and you’re given a two legged playoff! Fantastic….. All for qualification into the black hole that is Europa league. Big clubs don’t need the League Cup unless of course they have the squad players to make a deep run.

Given the choice, no manager or fan for that matter would prioritize League Cup ahead of the other three competitions listed.

That's still no excuse for losing to a team as poor as that with the players that played.  Look, I know that the League Cup isn't a huge deal, but considering Spurs downward trend (in every competition other than the Champions League) in the last 6 months, any Spurs fan should be very concerned.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 27, 2019, 12:54:35 PM
That's occasionally the case, although when you look at who Poch played it clearly isn't.

That's still no excuse for losing to a team as poor as that with the players that played.  Look, I know that the League Cup isn't a huge deal, but considering Spurs downward trend (in every competition other than the Champions League) in the last 6 months, any Spurs fan should be very concerned.

I agree with you here. This singular game will not cause an inquisition, but the aggregate of mediocre results adds fuel to the fire.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 27, 2019, 12:55:15 PM
Especially when one club has won something like 7 out of the last 10 domestic trophies.  For all the talent that's been at White Hart Lane the last decade, that trophy cabinet is looking pretty bare.


No squad depth, can’t retain top talent and can’t recruit experienced difference makers to feature consistently in the starting XI.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 27, 2019, 12:55:56 PM

December/January brings FA cup 3rd round, busy Christmas league schedule, closing of Champions League group stage and possibly League Cup games. Right when you think you’re out of the busy game schedule, congratulations make the semis of the League Cup and you’re given a two legged playoff! Fantastic….. All for qualification into the black hole that is Europa league. Big clubs don’t need the League Cup unless of course they have the squad players to make a deep run.

Given the choice, no manager or fan for that matter would prioritize League Cup ahead of the other three competitions listed.


No team does "prioritize" the league cup.  However last year, three of the four semifinalists were still involved in European competitions and all three put out top line ups for both games.

And the result?  One went on to with the Premier League, one went on to win the Europa League and the third was the UCL runner up.  Fixture congestion is a problem with no winter break, which is why PL teams are getting off weeks this season.

But teams in other leagues are still playing two games a week.  La Liga teams are playing Copa matches pretty much non stop when they get back from break.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 27, 2019, 01:14:42 PM

No team does "prioritize" the league cup.  However last year, three of the four semifinalists were still involved in European competitions and all three put out top line ups for both games.

And the result?  One went on to with the Premier League, one went on to win the Europa League and the third was the UCL runner up.  Fixture congestion is a problem with no winter break, which is why PL teams are getting off weeks this season.

But teams in other leagues are still playing two games a week.  La Liga teams are playing Copa matches pretty much non stop when they get back from break.

I think its a factor more for the fringe top 4 teams.  Liverpool was helped MIGHTILY in their EPL and UCL pushes by bowing out of the domestic cups early and keeping fresh.  Now that they are established and have continued to bring in top talent, they have the depth.  They can sit their studs and play guys like Gomez, Lallana, Ox, Origi who are capped internationals and contend for it.  Same with City, as Mourinho joked their backups would be a top 4 squad.

A team like Wolves, regardless of their early season form struggles, are gonna have a difficult time if they want to go deep in either cup, while pushing on the two "bigger" stages.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 27, 2019, 01:25:14 PM
I think its a factor more for the fringe top 4 teams.  Liverpool was helped MIGHTILY in their EPL and UCL pushes by bowing out of the domestic cups early and keeping fresh.  Now that they are established and have continued to bring in top talent, they have the depth.  They can sit their studs and play guys like Gomez, Lallana, Ox, Origi who are capped internationals and contend for it.  Same with City, as Mourinho joked their backups would be a top 4 squad.

A team like Wolves, regardless of their early season form struggles, are gonna have a difficult time if they want to go deep in either cup, while pushing on the two "bigger" stages.


I can agree with this.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 01:25:41 PM

No squad depth, can’t retain top talent and can’t recruit experienced difference makers to feature consistently in the starting XI.

If you actually look at the deals that they have made, Spurs have been one of the smartest clubs in the world about buying low and selling high.  Considering what and where they've spent it's kinda amazing that they're as good as they are.

In:
Erikson 15 mil
Alli 7.5 mil
Dier 5 mil
Alderweireld 18 mil
Son 35 mil
Wanyama 16
Foyth 14
Aurier 28
Moura 32

Out:
25 mil for Trippier
60 mil for Walker
18 mil for Chadli
18 mil for Townsend (probably could have gotten more)
Doesn't even include the high fees for Bale and Modric (probably could have gotten more for Modric, but when Real come calling there's only so much you can do).

Then you look at their academy graduates:
Kane, Winks, Walker-Peters, Skipp (Bale and Modric are technically Southampton and Zagreb graduates, but considering the age they were bought and the profit turned on them, it's just as impressive)

All while building a 1 billion euro new stadium, while staying competitive on the field.

Yes the lack of silverware is concerning, but Daniel Levy absolutely knows what he's doing
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 27, 2019, 01:45:51 PM
Yes the lack of silverware is concerning, but Daniel Levy absolutely knows what he's doing

He’s a fantastic businessman. But do you want to be 90s/00s Man Utd, what Liverpool is becoming, or do you want to be Ajax?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 02:04:04 PM
He’s a fantastic businessman. But do you want to be 90s/00s Man Utd, what Liverpool is becoming, or do you want to be Ajax?
Well I guess we're gonna see, now that their stadium is paid for.  They shelled out big for Ndombele, Lo Celso, and Sessegnon.  If they shell out big on Erikson potential new contract (he's only on 75K a week right now), and bring in some quality CBs once Vertongen and Alderweireld are off the books they'll be a lot closer to a "big club" than an "academy club".  With all the money being dumped into the "big 6" as well as the Prem as a whole, I don't think any one team will ever be as dominant as those 90's United or 70s Liverpool teams were (although City might be able to stake that claim after their last 24 months), but Spurs can definitely be right up there.  They're at a pretty big crossroads right now with the stadium done and Erikson/Kane attracting quite a bit of attention from Real.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 27, 2019, 02:18:22 PM
If you actually look at the deals that they have made, Spurs have been one of the smartest clubs in the world about buying low and selling high.  Considering what and where they've spent it's kinda amazing that they're as good as they are.

In:
Erikson 15 mil
Alli 7.5 mil
Dier 5 mil
Alderweireld 18 mil
Son 35 mil
Wanyama 16
Foyth 14
Aurier 28
Moura 32

Out:
25 mil for Trippier
60 mil for Walker
18 mil for Chadli
18 mil for Townsend (probably could have gotten more)
Doesn't even include the high fees for Bale and Modric (probably could have gotten more for Modric, but when Real come calling there's only so much you can do).

Then you look at their academy graduates:
Kane, Winks, Walker-Peters, Skipp (Bale and Modric are technically Southampton and Zagreb graduates, but considering the age they were bought and the profit turned on them, it's just as impressive)

All while building a 1 billion euro new stadium, while staying competitive on the field.

Yes the lack of silverware is concerning, but Daniel Levy absolutely knows what he's doing

Smart business doesn’t equal trophies. Spurs are so close to getting over the hump but they just don’t recruit the way a big club needs to.

Look at what Liverpool did the past couple of seasons with the purchases of Alison, van Dijk and Fabinho. Liverpool was an exciting, attacking team but struggled with consistency because they leaked goals. They went out, debatably spent over the top on game changing players, but improved greatly on their weaknesses. They won Europe and were millimeters away from winning the league.

Spurs on the other hand have made nice nice signings, Moura/Son/Alderwield the past couple of seasons as you mentioned. Those signings are good enough to compete for top 4 in the prem, but not good enough to be a constant threat in the knockouts of Champions League or compete for the league.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 02:28:23 PM
Smart business doesn’t equal trophies. Spurs are so close to getting over the hump but they just don’t recruit the way a big club needs to.

Look at what Liverpool did the past couple of seasons with the purchases of Alison, van Dijk and Fabinho. Liverpool was an exciting, attacking team but struggled with consistency because they leaked goals. They went out, debatably spent over the top on game changing players, but improved greatly on their weaknesses. They won Europe and were millimeters away from winning the league.

Spurs on the other hand have made nice nice signings, Moura/Son/Alderwield the past couple of seasons as you mentioned. Those signings are good enough to compete for top 4 in the prem, but not good enough to be a constant threat in the knockouts of Champions League or compete for the league.

Well Spurs did make it to the Champions League Final, so I would classify that as being a threat in the Knockout Stages.  I also think that Liverpool got a little lucky with how VVD turned out.  I mean everyone knew he was good, but if Southampton knew that he'd be a legit Ballon D'or candidate within 24 months they would have slapped a much higher price tag on him.  They also got Salah on the very cheap because Roma had to sell because of their FFP situation.  Not trying to take anything away from Liverpool because they've deserved what they've gotten, but they've had two relatively low key signings turn out to be world class, and still only have one real trophy to show for it. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 27, 2019, 03:29:54 PM
Well Spurs did make it to the Champions League Final, so I would classify that as being a threat in the Knockout Stages.  I also think that Liverpool got a little lucky with how VVD turned out.  I mean everyone knew he was good, but if Southampton knew that he'd be a legit Ballon D'or candidate within 24 months they would have slapped a much higher price tag on him.  They also got Salah on the very cheap because Roma had to sell because of their FFP situation.  Not trying to take anything away from Liverpool because they've deserved what they've gotten, but they've had two relatively low key signings turn out to be world class, and still only have one real trophy to show for it.

*Consistent threat. Not one hit wonder.

VVD was the most expensive defender in the world after his purchase. Salah tore up Serie A and Liverpool bought him below market rate rather than paying over the top for other attackers who moved that off season.

Smart business is finding world class players below market value who fit into your style of play. Easier said than done, but Totenham’s smart business is being a selling club whereas top European clubs smart business is actually winning trophies.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 03:46:06 PM
*Consistent threat. Not one hit wonder.

VVD was the most expensive defender in the world after his purchase. Salah tore up Serie A and Liverpool bought him below market rate rather than paying over the top for other attackers who moved that off season.

Smart business is finding world class players below market value who fit into your style of play. Easier said than done, but Totenham’s smart business is being a selling club whereas top European clubs smart business is actually winning trophies.

There's more to being a top club than spending a lot of money.  Lets look at the defenders that Man U has bought since Fergie left.

Daley Blind 20 mil
Marcos Rojo 20 mil
Luke Shaw 40 mil
Matteo Darmian 20 mil
Eric Bailey 40 mil
Victor Lindelof 40 mil
Diogo Dalot 25 mil
Defensive Midfielder Nemanja Matic 50 mil
Defensive Midfielder Fred 65 mil
Total 300+ Million dollars.

They conceded 54 goals in 38 Prem games last year (something like most in half a century), while playing in front of arguably a top 5 keeper in the world.  Then they go out and pay 90 mil for Maguire, 65 mil for Wan-Bissaka and have already lost 2 out of 6 games this season. 

It's easy to say spend in areas of need.  Actually doing it effectively takes both a lot of money and quite a bit of luck.  Now Spurs are not without criticism, but considering their smaller budget (relative to other "top European clubs") and the fact that they spent 1 billion on a new stadium (more than it would have cost to sign 4 Neymars) they're doing fine. 

Also, losing players to Real Madrid hardly makes you a "selling club", unless Chelsea, Man City, Juventus, Bayern, Man U, Spurs, Liverpool and AC Milan are all selling clubs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 27, 2019, 03:56:49 PM
There's more to being a top club than spending a lot of money.  Lets look at the defenders that Man U has bought since Fergie left.

Daley Blind 20 mil
Marcos Rojo 20 mil
Luke Shaw 40 mil
Matteo Darmian 20 mil
Eric Bailey 40 mil
Victor Lindelof 40 mil
Diogo Dalot 25 mil
Defensive Midfielder Nemanja Matic 50 mil
Defensive Midfielder Fred 65 mil
Total 300+ Million dollars.

They conceded 54 goals in 38 Prem games last year (something like most in half a century), while playing in front of arguably a top 5 keeper in the world.  Then they go out and pay 90 mil for Maguire, 65 mil for Wan-Bissaka and have already lost 2 out of 6 games this season. 

It's easy to say spend in areas of need.  Actually doing it effectively takes both a lot of money and quite a bit of luck.  Now Spurs are not without criticism, but considering their smaller budget (relative to other "top European clubs") and the fact that they spent 1 billion on a new stadium (more than it would have cost to sign 4 Neymars) they're doing fine. 

Also, losing players to Real Madrid hardly makes you a "selling club", unless Chelsea, Man City, Juventus, Bayern, Man U, Spurs, Liverpool and AC Milan are all selling clubs.

They can’t retain their best players as teams above them in stature continue to poach them which limits their growth as a club. What would you call that?

If you’re using United’s transfer “strategy” to justify your point, LOL. The fall from grace United’s seen since Ferguson retired is comical and most of it is due to the fact they’ve significantly overpaid for almost all of their big name transfers (as well as single handedly over inflated the transfer market, but story for a different day)…
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 27, 2019, 03:59:11 PM
Spurs are the only the only one of the "Big Six" not to win a trophy in the last five years.  They are also on their longest trophy-less streak since before WW2.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 27, 2019, 04:02:44 PM
There's more to being a top club than spending a lot of money.  Lets look at the defenders that Man U has bought since Fergie left.

You're making 2 different points.  You said Liverpool got lucky with VVD cause Soton didn't know what they had.  Then it was correctly highlighted that VVD was a record signing.  Now its spending a lot of money isn't enough?  Liverpool correctly assessed talent, paid what seemed like a princely sum, but trusted it was worth it.

Speaking of Salah, I never expected the heights he's reached, but Liverpool wanted him desperately in 2014 before he went to Chelsea, they were 3MM short then.  They didn't cheap around when they got another chance.  They've certainly not been shy about opening their wallet, but they've been incredible at talent evaluation and finding players to fit over the last 3-4 years.  Alisson, VVD, and Fabinho were pricy but have been worth every penny.  Salah, Mane, and Firmino weren't cheap but they've well exceeded their investment.  Ox and Keita are the only high priced "disappointments" and thats been more an injury issue than anything else.  Looking forward to seeing Keita get back to speed in the next month or two.

Funny, the last brutal LFC signing was Benteke, and he preceded Klopp's arrival by a few months.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 04:21:06 PM
They can’t retain their best players as teams above them in stature continue to poach them which limits their growth as a club. What would you call that?

Once again losing players to Real Madrid does not make you a selling club.  The fact that Real has been openly courting Kane for a couple years now and he's still at Spurs tells you all you need to know.  There is no such thing as a "selling club" in the Premier League anymore.  Its a thing of the past.

Spurs are the only the only one of the "Big Six" not to win a trophy in the last five years.  They are also on their longest trophy-less streak since before WW2.

Man U Treble of Community Shield, League Cup and Europa League was pretty impressive wasn't it?

You're making 2 different points.  You said Liverpool got lucky with VVD cause Soton didn't know what they had.  Then it was correctly highlighted that VVD was a record signing.  Now its spending a lot of money isn't enough?  Liverpool correctly assessed talent, paid what seemed like a princely sum, but trusted it was worth it.

Speaking of Salah, I never expected the heights he's reached, but Liverpool wanted him desperately in 2014 before he went to Chelsea, they were 3MM short then.  They didn't cheap around when they got another chance.  They've certainly not been shy about opening their wallet, but they've been incredible at talent evaluation and finding players to fit over the last 3-4 years.  Alisson, VVD, and Fabinho were pricy but have been worth every penny.  Salah, Mane, and Firmino weren't cheap but they've well exceeded their investment.  Ox and Keita are the only high priced "disappointments" and thats been more an injury issue than anything else.  Looking forward to seeing Keita get back to speed in the next month or two.

Funny, the last brutal LFC signing was Benteke, and he preceded Klopp's arrival by a few months.

The point is they've gotten lucky.  If you have a player two years away from a Ballon D'or, you don't sell him no matter what, especially to another English team.  If Roma wasn't in a FFP situation, Salah would have never come.  If you knew that Mane was going to be as good as he is now, you don't sell him for only 40 mil.  No one thought Robertson would be the player he is now when he signed for 9 mil.  This is the same team that paid 45 mil for Benteke, 20 for Cline, 30 for Lallana, 20 for Balotelli, and 20 for Moreno.  The point is that some signings turn out to have good luck, and some have bad luck.  Liverpool's gotten some extreme good luck with some of their signing over the last 36 months, and very little bad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 27, 2019, 04:35:23 PM
Once again losing players to Real Madrid does not make you a selling club.  The fact that Real has been openly courting Kane for a couple years now and he's still at Spurs tells you all you need to know.  There is no such thing as a "selling club" in the Premier League anymore.  Its a thing of the past.

Man U Treble of Community Shield, League Cup and Europa League was pretty impressive wasn't it?

The point is they've gotten lucky.  If you have a player two years away from a Ballon D'or, you don't sell him no matter what, especially to another English team.  If Roma wasn't in a FFP situation, Salah would have never come.  If you knew that Mane was going to be as good as he is now, you don't sell him for only 40 mil.  No one thought Robertson would be the player he is now when he signed for 9 mil.  This is the same team that paid 45 mil for Benteke, 20 for Cline, 30 for Lallana, 20 for Balotelli, and 20 for Moreno.  The point is that some signings turn out to have good luck, and some have bad luck.  Liverpool's gotten some extreme good luck with some of their signing over the last 36 months, and very little bad.

The fact you think Southampton was ever keeping van Dijk isn’t doing much to help your credibility.

Also to answer your point about getting lucky. Ian Ayre signings vs. Michael Edwards signings. Nuff said.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 04:48:31 PM
The fact you think Southampton was ever keeping van Dijk isn’t doing much to help your credibility.

Also to answer your point about getting lucky. Ian Ayre signings vs. Michael Edwards signings. Nuff said.

Southampton were nearly relegated the year they sold VVD.  The cost of relegation is far superior to the 75 mil they got from him.  Had they know that he would blow up to the level that he has, they either would have 1.) not sold him in the winter when prices are almost always lower, and 2.) demanded so much more for him considering he was under contract until 2020.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 27, 2019, 04:50:22 PM
He refused to play for them until they sold him. They received the most they could (record amount) given the circumstances.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 04:55:41 PM
He would have sat out a couple of weeks until the window closed.  Then the fines would have gotten so high he would be forced to play until at least the summer, when Southampton could have gotten much more for him.  Especially considering that Man City were also interested and hampton would have preferred a bidding war to to drive up the price.  Had they known then what they know now, he would have been sold in the summer (after helping them stay up) for at least 100 mil, if not more.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 27, 2019, 05:08:32 PM
He would have sat out a couple of weeks until the window closed.  Then the fines would have gotten so high he would be forced to play until at least the summer, when Southampton could have gotten much more for him.  Especially considering that Man City were also interested and hampton would have preferred a bidding war to to drive up the price.  Had they known then what they know now, he would have been sold in the summer (after helping them stay up) for at least 100 mil, if not more.

And then Southampton would’ve sold him for less in the offseason...Stop while you’re behind.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/football/virgil-van-dijk-man-city-173111

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportbible.com/football/transfers-manchester-city-wanted-virgil-van-dijk-to-be-third-choice-centre-back-20190608.amp.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 05:13:20 PM
And then Southampton would’ve sold him for less in the offseason...Stop while you’re behind.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/football/virgil-van-dijk-man-city-173111

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportbible.com/football/transfers-manchester-city-wanted-virgil-van-dijk-to-be-third-choice-centre-back-20190608.amp.html

City outbid?  Good one.

http://7amkickoff.com/index.php/2017/07/25/man-city-have-spent-over-a-billion-euros-on-transfers-in-just-10-years/

 VVD behind Otamendi?  Even better. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnhysL6jC9s
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 27, 2019, 05:22:52 PM
The fact you think Southampton was ever keeping van Dijk isn’t doing much to help your credibility.

Also to answer your point about getting lucky. Ian Ayre signings vs. Michael Edwards signings. Nuff said.

Exactly.  Michael Edwards and the arrival of Jurgen Klopp.  Edwards was on the transfer committee and also in charge of doing analysis on the Daglish and Brendan Rodgers tenures.  Klopp came in with his vision, his plan, and his player style preferences and he and Edwards have a great relationship. 

If you knew that Mane was going to be as good as he is now, you don't sell him for only 40 mil.  No one thought Robertson would be the player he is now when he signed for 9 mil.  This is the same team that paid 45 mil for Benteke, 20 for Cline, 30 for Lallana, 20 for Balotelli, and 20 for Moreno.  The point is that some signings turn out to have good luck, and some have bad luck.  Liverpool's gotten some extreme good luck with some of their signing over the last 36 months, and very little bad.

As mentioned above, completely different administration, manager, and system. Its like saying the Epstein Cubs are lucky based on comparing to the moronic signings of the Hendry era.

And I'm not sure what fantasy world you live in where unless you sign top players for peak value, you are lucky.  What do you think scouting and talent evaluation is about?  And its almost like some players managed to take their talents and abilities to the next level playing for one of the top managers in the world on a great team, instead of being a standout for Hull City or Soton.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 05:34:55 PM

And I'm not sure what fantasy world you live in where unless you sign top players for peak value, you are lucky.  What do you think scouting and talent evaluation is about?  And its almost like some players managed to take their talents and abilities to the next level playing for one of the top managers in the world on a great team, instead of being a standout for Hull City or Soton.

It's not wrong to say that every top club is lucky (possible exception of Real) to some degree.  If you had known Sterling would end up this good, don't you think you would have asked for more (sold for 60, now worth 140)?  If Chelsea had known that De Bruyne and Salah would be this good, do you think they would have ever let them go?  Luck is just a part of the game.  The more money you have the larger margin for error you can have.  That's why City can get away with paying 45 mil for Eliquim Mangala, Barca can get away with paying 100 mil for Coutinho, and yes even Liverpool and Jurgen Klopp can get away with players going down in value once they're bought.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/naby-keita/profil/spieler/302215
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 27, 2019, 08:15:50 PM

Man U Treble of Community Shield, League Cup and Europa League was pretty impressive wasn’t it?

And an FA Cup.

And all of that is more impressive than anything Spurs have won.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 08:20:51 PM
And an FA Cup.

And all of that is more impressive than anything Spurs have won.

I'm not defending Spurs lack of silverware, I've commented on how it's worrying multiple times, but Spurs are better both on the pitch and in the boardroom than Man U right now.  The only way I see United picking up another trophy before Spurs is if they snag the Europa League again, which is honestly their best bet at making the Champions League next year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 27, 2019, 08:22:04 PM
I'm not defending Spurs lack of silverware, I've commented on how it's worrying multiple times, but Spurs are better both on the pitch and in the boardroom than Man U right now.  The only way I see United picking up another trophy before Spurs is if they snag the Europa League again, which is honestly their best bet at making the Champions League next year.

I don’t disagree.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 08:25:52 PM
I don’t disagree.

That's why I think just looking at trophies alone can be very misleading.  Liverpool have been arguably the best team in England/Europe over the last 24 months, yet they only have 1 (2 with Super Cup) trophy to show for it.  At the same time, City picked up 4 last year and would probably have traded all of them for the one that Liverpool got.  Different clubs, different goals.
Title: Re: Futbol Talka
Post by: JWags85 on September 27, 2019, 09:10:28 PM
It's not wrong to say that every top club is lucky (possible exception of Real) to some degree.  If you had known Sterling would end up this good, don't you think you would have asked for more (sold for 60, now worth 140)?  If Chelsea had known that De Bruyne and Salah would be this good, do you think they would have ever let them go?  Luck is just a part of the game.  The more money you have the larger margin for error you can have.  That's why City can get away with paying 45 mil for Eliquim Mangala, Barca can get away with paying 100 mil for Coutinho, and yes even Liverpool and Jurgen Klopp can get away with players going down in value once they're bought.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/naby-keita/profil/spieler/302215

With all due respect, it sounds like small budget sour grapes. Spurs have been spending more lately, but all my friends who are Spurs supporters have historically moaned that they won’t spend with their peers.

And so no, I don’t agree. Do they have more margin for error, can they stomach a bad singing easier than someone that isn’t a monster or with Middle Eastern money? Sure. But so much of sports is talent evaluation and managed risk taking.  Sterling wanted to move and they got a good price for him, so they sold. Just like they weren’t “lucky” the way Coutinho worked out. They would have happily kept him even though the huge sum allowed them to invest elsewhere.  Leicester City taking a flier on Jaime Vardy 2 years removed from playing in the 8th level of English football and having him turn into a goal machine English international is lucky. Spending a tidy sum for a good proven player and having him further develop and produce is what transfers are all about. Man Utd hasn’t been unlucky while Liverpool or other have been lucky, they are just terrible at fit assessment and talent valuation. They approach the windows like a 12 year old playing FIFA with an extra money cheat code
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 27, 2019, 09:11:08 PM
Well I guess we're gonna see, now that their stadium is paid for.  They shelled out big for Ndombele, Lo Celso, and Sessegnon.  If they shell out big on Erikson potential new contract (he's only on 75K a week right now), and bring in some quality CBs once Vertongen and Alderweireld are off the books they'll be a lot closer to a "big club" than an "academy club".  With all the money being dumped into the "big 6" as well as the Prem as a whole, I don't think any one team will ever be as dominant as those 90's United or 70s Liverpool teams were (although City might be able to stake that claim after their last 24 months), but Spurs can definitely be right up there.  They're at a pretty big crossroads right now with the stadium done and Erikson/Kane attracting quite a bit of attention from Real.

Erickson was plan E for Madrid and that move didnt pan out, obvs.  I think that is part of his poor form so far this year.  He had his mind made up that Madrid would be calling, and the call never came.  Hard to regroup once your mind is made up that you want to leave, no matter what your job is.

The GOAT signed a new deal today, good squad move.  I think at least one of Erikson, Toby and Super Jan will sign a new deal before January.

How many of y'all are Spurs fans? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 09:29:00 PM
Wags and Panda

You guys are Liverpool fans, you're always going to stand up for your team, your coach, and take a dump on United whenever you get the chance.  I get it, I respect it, but try to look at this through neutral eyes.  Liverpool spent 123 mil on their front line.  That front line in now worth 350 mil.  Is part of that good scouting/development? Sure, but you can't deny that a 184% increase in the span of 4 years doesn't have some element of good luck to it.  The closest increase I could find in the Prem was City, who have spent 170 on their front line that is now worth 265, for a 55% increase.  That also includes pre-Neymar purchases of Aguero and Sterling.  Now Liverpool's scouting/development may be better than City's, but do you really believe that it's over three times as good?  I sure don't.

I think Klopp is a good manager, I think Liverpool is fun to watch.  But I also believe that they have caught some very fortuitous breaks under his reign.  That's not a knock on Klopp or Liverpool, Pep was lucky that he walked into a squad that had KDB, David Silva, Fernandinho, Kompany, and Aguero.  Pep was lucky that Stones cleared the ball of the line against Liverpool last year.  And for the record, I'm not an anti-Liverpool, pro United guy.  The team I support isn't even in the Prem, so not to flex or anything, but I usually look at stuff like this with unbiased eyes. 

If you guys are gonna stay up and continue this discussion, I hope you won't be up at the break of dawn to watch Sheffield get pounded.     

Edit: Math
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 27, 2019, 09:32:12 PM
Moving down a few levels.....any of you following the Mingos so far this year?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 27, 2019, 10:17:51 PM
Wags and Panda

You guys are Liverpool fans, you're always going to stand up for your team, your coach, and take a dump on United whenever you get the chance.  I get it, I respect it, but try to look at this through neutral eyes.  Liverpool spent 123 mil on their front line.  That front line in now worth 350 mil.  Is part of that good scouting/development? Sure, but you can't deny that a 280% increase in the span of 4 years doesn't have some element of good luck to it.  The closest increase I could find in the Prem was City, who have spent 170 on their front line that is now worth 265, for a 150% increase.  That also includes pre-Neymar purchases of Aguero and Sterling.  Now Liverpool's scouting/development may be better than City's, but do you really believe that it's almost twice as good?  I sure don't.

I think Klopp is a good manager, I think Liverpool is fun to watch.  But I also believe that they have caught some very fortuitous breaks under his reign.  That's not a knock on Klopp or Liverpool, Pep was lucky that he walked into a squad that had KDB, David Silva, Fernandinho, Kompany, and Aguero.  Pep was lucky that Stones cleared the ball of the line against Liverpool last year.  And for the record, I'm not an anti-Liverpool, pro United guy.  The team I support isn't even in the Prem, so not to flex or anything, but I usually look at stuff like this with unbiased eyes. 

If you guys are gonna stay up and continue this discussion, I hope you won't be up at the break of dawn to watch Sheffield get pounded.   

It has nothing to do with United. I dislike post-title City and Arsenal far more than United.  I just get annoyed by bandwagon United fans in the states but that’s simmered

And I was speaking more to your overall point about “luck”. LFC is just the club I know best and you specifically called out some of their moves.

I think the appreciation of Liverpool players is far more logical than “luck”. Firmino was a good player coming off a semi-disappointing season at a mid table Hoffenheim after being a breakout star the year before. His value probably ticked down 5-10 million than if he was sold after 13-14. Mane had a nice pre-transfer year with a surprising Soton team, but was tied for 15th in the EPL scoring with two of his teammates.

They joined a Liverpool team that was coming off a disappointing 6th place finish and then a team that surprised into a Europa final but stumbled to 8th and would miss Europe in Mane’s first year. Then Liverpool broke out the last 2 years, free flowing offense allowed them to score in bushels, and they became a force in the CL and then won.  They went from being fair or possibly undervalued due to not being you starlets or on bright light teams, and then now are overinflated in value cause of the CL effect. If Liverpool finished 2-3rd in the league last year and bowed out in the CL quarters, we’re not talking about that percentage increase, it’s likely lower than City’s.  Their valuations are like Divincenzo becoming a near lottery pick cause he played well in a natty team. Wright wasn’t lucky but he also wasn’t probably that level of pick either. Just a snapshot in time when hype was high.

Klopp took over a mess of a team with no identity or pieces to fit how they should play (Benteke is a fish out of water in Rodgers or Klopp’s system). He’s been fortunate in no severe injuries, I could give you lucky there. He crafted successful teams at Mainz and BVB with a smaller budget finding pieces and players that fit his scheme. He did the same at Liverpool but had the ability to not have to narrow the search based on budget. Pep is a great race car driver that jumped into a Ferrari. Klopp got into a car with a team of good mechanics and the resources to improve and they built a comparable car over the next few seasons without an engine exploding or tires blowing out.

I’m doing what I always do with 6AM matches, record it, turn off my alerts and text notifications, and watch when I wake up
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2019, 10:44:09 PM
Pep is a great race car driver that jumped into a Ferrari. Klopp got into a car with a team of good mechanics and the resources to improve and they built a comparable car over the next few seasons without an engine exploding or tires blowing out.

I think this is a well reasoned take.  I'd argue that their value was at it's highest right after their loss to Madrid.  Salah put up his 32, Firmino put up 15, and Mane only put up 10, but they each got 10 in the Champions League.  Despite winning the Champions League last year, their numbers dropped almost across the board (Mane scored twice as many in the Prem).

My whole "luck" thing comes from all the Scousers I know that insisted that they knew Salah was going to blow up the way he did because he put up good numbers in Seria A.  As you pointed out Firmino struggled his last year in Germany and only has the one 20 goal season, yet he continually seems to land in the discussion for best striker in the Prem.  Mane's last year at hampton was solid, but he was behind players like Troy Deeney, and Odion Ighalo on that years scoring list.  Now Klopps obviously made him better, but to pretend like you knew it was coming, IDK.  And yea, Salah scored 15 his last year at Roma, but look at players like Dzeko, Higuin, and Lukaku (limited sample size).  They all put up good number in Seria A, but couldn't replicate it in England (although Lukaku does have 3, 20 goal seasons his last year in Manchester, yuk). 

Also, and I know it's not everyone (and likely not you), and every fanbase has their crazies, but OMG Liverpool fans are arrogant,.  It seems to be a much larger percentage than other fanbases too, and it attracts the crazy band-wagoners that just want to be arrogant and obnoxious.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUDPT on September 27, 2019, 11:08:37 PM
Moving down a few levels.....any of you following the Mingos so far this year?

Up the 'Gos!  It's a cool story.  Two of the section leaders are huge Arsenal supporters.  The guys that run the podcast are Liverpool.  In all seriousness, Peter Wilt is a genius and I'm unsure why he isn't working with an MLS club or the Federation.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 28, 2019, 12:04:18 AM
I think this is a well reasoned take.  I'd argue that their value was at it's highest right after their loss to Madrid.  Salah put up his 32, Firmino put up 15, and Mane only put up 10, but they each got 10 in the Champions League.  Despite winning the Champions League last year, their numbers dropped almost across the board (Mane scored twice as many in the Prem).

My whole "luck" thing comes from all the Scousers I know that insisted that they knew Salah was going to blow up the way he did because he put up good numbers in Seria A.  As you pointed out Firmino struggled his last year in Germany and only has the one 20 goal season, yet he continually seems to land in the discussion for best striker in the Prem.  Mane's last year at hampton was solid, but he was behind players like Troy Deeney, and Odion Ighalo on that years scoring list.  Now Klopps obviously made him better, but to pretend like you knew it was coming, IDK.  And yea, Salah scored 15 his last year at Roma, but look at players like Dzeko, Higuin, and Lukaku (limited sample size).  They all put up good number in Seria A, but couldn't replicate it in England (although Lukaku does have 3, 20 goal seasons his last year in Manchester, yuk). 

Also, and I know it's not everyone (and likely not you), and every fanbase has their crazies, but OMG Liverpool fans are arrogant,.  It seems to be a much larger percentage than other fanbases too, and it attracts the crazy band-wagoners that just want to be arrogant and obnoxious.

I could see it both ways.  Numbers were highest, but then last year showed it wasn't a fluke.

Well thats just silly.  Like I said, my best friend and I who grew up as Liverpool fans together were most stoked because we remembered almost getting Salah before he went to Chelsea.  And that was still middling Liverpool who always lost on top guys to Man Utd/City and Chelsea.  He played well at Roma, so it seemed like it would work out.  Never expected him to go supernova like that.

Firmino is nowhere near the best striker in the Prem, but I'd argue he's more valuable than Mane, because the little things he does in attack.  He's easily the best passer of the 3.

But that goes to the greater point.  Klopp's system is like a pass happy offense in CFB/NFL that allow QBs and WRs to put up big numbers.  But its not inflated against cupcakes cause its the best top to bottom league in the world.  But it allows attacking players to thrive and if they are opportunistic, they will have chances.  If you're a scorer, your value and shine will immeasurably grow playing in a system like that, even if you were just as good on a diff less offensive team.  Klopp's usage of his RB/LB which has allowed Robertson to grow by leaps and bounds and fasttracked TAA to England mainstay is just as impressive.

If there is one thing Ive learned about English soccer supporters, they all have their arrogances.  Whether it be about trophies, or being "better" fans, or better history.  I met arrogant Palace fans at Selhurst last year.  Not cocky or antagonistic, flat out arrogant.  It baffled me.  But Liverpool is having their time in the sun.  As much as I hate the comparison, its like the Celtics.  They are the second most successful club in England domestically, first in Europe.  That garners a lot of pride and some arrogance.  But they've been wandering in the wilderness for 20+ years until recently, save for 2005. So it was muted.  Now suddenly Liverpool is a power again, and year in year out contender, not a flash like 13-14, so they have something to be arrogant about again.  They've been starved for a reason to be boastful, so its out double time.  When I was in college in the mid 2000s and in Chicago during the 2010 and 2014 World Cups, finding a Liverpool fan was fun.  Talking Michael Owen and fav Stevie G goals.  Now they are unnatural carnal knowledgeing everywhere.  Its the most fun Ive had as a fan, but its just like the United stuff in the 90s and 2000s that was annoying.  But such are the trappings of success.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 28, 2019, 08:59:37 AM
I think that game is a perfect example of the point I'm trying to make.  Was Liverpool the better team, yes, did they create the better chances, yes, did Sheffield deserve a point,  absolutely.  Last year Liverpool won more points in the final 10 minutes of games than anyone else.  Whether the Sturridge equalizer against Chelsea, the Alderweireld own goal, Fabinho flopping to get the winning set piece against Newcastle, or Pickford literally handing them all three points after a VVD miskick.  Do other teams get lucky breaks, sure.  Sterling scored so many stoppage time winners two years ago that the City fans I know started calling it "sterling time" (mostly just to piss of the United fans that would still only talk about Fergie time).  Yea more of these breaks are going to happen when you have 70% possession and launch 16 shots, but to a neutral, that game should have ended 0-0.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 28, 2019, 09:23:45 AM
I think that game is a perfect example of the point I'm trying to make.  Was Liverpool the better team, yes, did they create the better chances, yes, did Sheffield deserve a point,  absolutely.  Last year Liverpool won more points in the final 10 minutes of games than anyone else.  Whether the Sturridge equalizer against Chelsea, the Alderweireld own goal, Fabinho flopping to get the winning set piece against Newcastle, or Pickford literally handing them all three points after a VVD miskick.  Do other teams get lucky breaks, sure.  Sterling scored so many stoppage time winners two years ago that the City fans I know started calling it "sterling time" (mostly just to piss of the United fans that would still only talk about Fergie time).  Yea more of these breaks are going to happen when you have 70% possession and launch 16 shots, but to a neutral, that game should have ended 0-0.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 03, 2019, 02:45:48 PM
Racine native and RB Salzburg manager Jesse Marsch's pre-game speach yesterday before they faced Liverpool in the Champions League.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc1wFH_2YnI&feature=youtu.be

The only words I understood were "f*cking" and "Champions League," but that even fired me up.  This guy's probably too big to manage the USMNT now right?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 03, 2019, 03:04:46 PM
Racine native and RB Salzburg manager Jesse Marsch's pre-game speach yesterday before they faced Liverpool in the Champions League.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc1wFH_2YnI&feature=youtu.be

The only words I understood were "f*cking" and "Champions League," but that even fired me up.  This guy's probably too big to manage the USMNT now right?

I love Jesse Marsch. Story is amazing. Disastrous season in Montreal, not a great start to a coaching career.  But what a comeback, in literally just over 4 years, he went from a college assistant coach, to the skipper of a club in the Champions League, and likely easy fav to win their domestic league.

Is he too big to manage the USMNT?  Absolutely not.  Love him or hate him, but Klinnsman coached a top 3 national team and a top 5 club in the world before taking over the USMNT.  Even if Marsch was coaching RB Leipzig and not Salzburg, I wouldn't say he was too big for the gig, especially as an American with experience in the program.  Now is he on the radar?  Who knows, the dip**** administration may dislike him cause he dared spurn MLS for something greater.  Talk about betting on yourself though.

Also, impressive speaking serviceable German as the primary language to address your team.  He's been there for a year.  Goes back to one of my pet peeves.  Athletes and coaches who seemingly make no effort to pick up the native tongue where you're employed.  Its not just a US thing (though I'm baffled when guys spend 5+ years in a US professional sport and can't speak conversationally in the most widely distributed language in the world), Bale has been in Spain for 6 years and speaks barely any Spanish.  Same with guys in the EPL.  Its not as if you're being asked to learn Chinese or Bulgarian.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 11, 2019, 06:14:50 PM
Cuba is baaaaaad
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUDPT on October 11, 2019, 07:47:52 PM
Cuba is baaaaaad

Can’t see how Mexico/ US federations can be happy about this. If they wanted to do this, why not just add South America too?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 11, 2019, 08:09:11 PM
Can’t see how Mexico/ US federations can be happy about this. If they wanted to do this, why not just add South America too?

Because it's related to WC qualifying and you can't mix CONCACAF and COMNEBOL. Nations League is stupid everywhere, but its be impossible to mix federations.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mu03eng on October 15, 2019, 10:48:42 PM
Cuba is baaaaaad

US is not good either....lost badly to the f'ing Canucks
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 16, 2019, 01:07:09 AM
Since Berhalter took over, the USMNT has gotten smacked by Venezuela, lost twice to Mexico and wasnt competitive in either, snuck by Curacao while getting out-possessed and out-shot, and now got dominated by Canada (Canada could have won that 3-0,4-0 easily). The team has looked listless and lacking ideas in attack against all but the worst competition like Cuba. It’s not a talent issue, though team selection and lineups certainly aren’t indicative.

The hire was spurious at best, and has proven to be as disappointing as originally thought. But even better? Earnie Stewart, who would make the call to fire Ol Gregg....reports to his brother. US Soccer is a nepotism special, complete disaster, and shows no sign of improving
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 16, 2019, 10:25:49 AM
https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/10/16/usmnt-canada-loss-us-soccer-berhalter-crisis
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on October 16, 2019, 11:16:03 AM
Watched the last 20 minutes. U.S. looked like it was the last match of a group stage they'd already won. Zero urgency.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 24, 2019, 12:44:49 PM
https://twitter.com/PhilSchoen/status/1187355011019345921

Dest deciding on USA/NET this week.  Would be huge to get him, but not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 24, 2019, 04:06:43 PM
https://twitter.com/PhilSchoen/status/1187355011019345921

Dest deciding on USA/NET this week.  Would be huge to get him, but not holding my breath.

Fighting for playing time for the Orange is probably better than missing call ups in favor of Nick Lima or Reggie Cannon cause they play in MLS and he's just some unfamiliar Champions League starter off in Europe.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 24, 2019, 06:17:41 PM
Fighting for playing time for the Orange is probably better than missing call ups in favor of Nick Lima or Reggie Cannon cause they play in MLS and he's just some unfamiliar Champions League starter off in Europe.
TBF he was called up last international break, he just turned it down because he had yet to make this decision and didn't want to commit for life.  That said, if I were him I'd take the Dutch all day.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 25, 2019, 11:33:15 AM
TBF he was called up last international break, he just turned it down because he had yet to make this decision and didn't want to commit for life.  That said, if I were him I'd take the Dutch all day.

Oh I know.  I was just speaking to the Feds tendencies in general.  Dest is a better version of Yedlin.  This isn't a Julian Green situation at Bayern, this is by all accounts, someone who factors prominently into Ajax's plans given his CL appearances and steady domestic appearances.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 26, 2019, 01:05:07 PM
Nice.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 28, 2019, 11:53:15 AM
https://twitter.com/AFCAjax/status/1188838647975596040

Surprised but happy.  Much clearer path to playing time must have been a huge influence.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 28, 2019, 01:46:32 PM
https://twitter.com/AFCAjax/status/1188838647975596040

Surprised but happy.  Much clearer path to playing time must have been a huge influence.

HUGE! Between him and the Chosen One have a breakout performance on Saturday, its been a nice couple of days for the future of the USMNT
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 30, 2019, 06:28:10 AM
HUGE! Between him and the Chosen One have a breakout performance on Saturday, its been a nice couple of days for the future of the USMNT

I just hope Berhalter starts to figure it out. All the talent in the world is useless if you can't create a cohesive gameplan to win with it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 19, 2019, 01:50:28 PM
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/11865128/mauricio-pochettino-sacked-by-tottenham

So who would have predicted Poch going before Ole or Unai?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on November 19, 2019, 02:33:41 PM
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/11865128/mauricio-pochettino-sacked-by-tottenham

So who would have predicted Poch going before Ole or Unai?

This makes complete sense and no sense whatsoever at the same time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 19, 2019, 02:40:16 PM
As a Spurs fan, I understand the Poch move, but I hate it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: StillAWarrior on November 19, 2019, 03:51:01 PM
Don't generally follow soccer, but did see some kid from my HS recently had a pretty noteworthy game winner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=NNb6_U3tR5s&feature=emb_logo
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on November 19, 2019, 04:20:00 PM
As a Spurs fan, I understand the Poch move, but I hate it.

Same. Probably necessary, but may mean a step in the wrong direction.
Levy may be able to redeem himself by landing Max Allegri.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 19, 2019, 04:35:20 PM
Same. Probably necessary, but may mean a step in the wrong direction.
Levy may be able to redeem himself by landing Max Allegri.

Spent the last decade at AC Milan and Juventus.  With that experience, that honeymoon will last until the summer when he gets pissed for the same reasons Poch did.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on November 19, 2019, 04:44:06 PM
Spent the last decade at AC Milan and Juventus.  With that experience, that honeymoon will last until the summer when he gets pissed for the same reasons Poch did.

Perhaps.
The irony is, while Poch was absolutely justified in past years for his frustration with Levy's lack of spending, the checkbook opened up this summer and Levy got the guys Poch wanted. And he was willing to spend even more for Dybala.
But I suspect by then the relationship was fractured  beyond the point of repair.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 19, 2019, 04:56:28 PM
Allegri isnt even on the list.  Mourinho probably is the odds on favorite, but that will just be another dumpster fire in 2 years.

Probably will appoint a caretaker, spend nothing in January, and be further behind on the rebuild for next year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on November 19, 2019, 05:22:17 PM
Allegri isnt even on the list.  Mourinho probably is the odds on favorite, but that will just be another dumpster fire in 2 years.

Probably will appoint a caretaker, spend nothing in January, and be further behind on the rebuild for next year.

There's been noise about Allegri and Tottenham for months, and he was quickly installed as the second favorite at British betting sites today.
That said, word has it they're in negotiations with Mourinho tonight.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 19, 2019, 06:27:12 PM
I continue to be amazed that in 2019 Jose is linked with these big jobs.  You're not getting the Jose from a decade ago.  Granted it wasn't entirely on him, but look at how screwed up his last two clubs are now.  IMO he needs to go rework some goodwill at a smaller club before he should get another shot at a big boy.

I would take a good long look at Eddie Howe if I was Levy.  This is Bournemouth's 5th year up, and he has them sitting in the top half with a shoestring budget.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 19, 2019, 06:38:32 PM
I continue to be amazed that in 2019 Jose is linked with these big jobs.  You're not getting the Jose from a decade ago.  Granted it wasn't entirely on him, but look at how screwed up his last two clubs are now.  IMO he needs to go rework some goodwill at a smaller club before he should get another shot at a big boy.

I would take a good long look at Eddie Howe if I was Levy.  This is Bournemouth's 5th year up, and he has them sitting in the top half with a shoestring budget.

I agree with you about Howe.

But Mourihno won a Premier League title his second go around with Chelsea and finished better (2nd) than anyone else has post Ferguson at United.  (And won a Europa League too.)

It may not end well, but he usually gets results in the short term.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 19, 2019, 06:52:24 PM
I agree with you about Howe.

But Mourihno won a Premier League title his second go around with Chelsea and finished better (2nd) than anyone else has post Ferguson at United.  (And won a Europa League too.)

It may not end well, but he usually gets results in the short term.

I'm sure that I'm biased about him because I've always seen him as an arrogant @$$hole that tries to gauge players eyes out, but I would hope the Spurs see the long-term harm that he does.  I could very well see negotiations breaking down because he would demand 300+ mil to spend in his first transfer window and Levy just won't guarantee that. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 19, 2019, 06:55:12 PM
I would take a good long look at Eddie Howe if I was Levy.  This is Bournemouth's 5th year up, and he has them sitting in the top half with a shoestring budget.

This is the no brainer candidate IMO. He’s not sexy, but he’s the solid mid major CBB coach who has been consistent at the top of their conference and made the tourney 3 out of 5 years. Not the guy who made a senior laden Cinderella run.

Mourinho would be amusing, cause I think the EPL is better with him involved. But Spurs just need to know what it is. 2 years and have a plan for when it inevitably goes sideways in 2021/2022. But have him try to make things happen with the roster assembled
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 19, 2019, 09:02:28 PM
This is the no brainer candidate IMO. He’s not sexy, but he’s the solid mid major CBB coach who has been consistent at the top of their conference and made the tourney 3 out of 5 years. Not the guy who made a senior laden Cinderella run.

Mourinho would be amusing, cause I think the EPL is better with him involved. But Spurs just need to know what it is. 2 years and have a plan for when it inevitably goes sideways in 2021/2022. But have him try to make things happen with the roster assembled

This is why it wouldn't make sense to me.  IMO everyone in England is at least two years away from seriously being able to challenge City or Liverpool.  Unless you're that desperate for a trophy that you're willing to sell the future for a League Cup or Europa League, you need someone that can build long term, and Jose just isn't that kind of manager.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 19, 2019, 09:18:03 PM
Sounds like it will be announced as official in the AM.

Crazy

Although I did read a bunch that Jose was big on a number of Spurs players in his prior stints. So, maybe this will go well....?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 20, 2019, 06:38:26 AM
Mourinho in.

This will be fun....just not sure it which way....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 23, 2019, 10:58:27 AM
I bet Arsenal fans wish they would have made this move.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on December 11, 2019, 06:55:42 PM
Looks like the city of Charlotte is going to spend $110 million to help our newest resident billionaire, Panthers owner David Tepper, bring an MLS expansion franchise here.

I'm neither here nor there on us having a team -- I probably won't go to any games, but I'm not against having a franchise.

Still, with all the needs Charlotte has, and knowing that Tepper soon will be asking for significantly more money than that for a new Panthers stadium, it's pretty hard for me to justify such a giveaway to a billionaire.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 11, 2019, 10:42:42 PM
All 16 of the champions league knockout round qualifiers come from the top five associations. Spain (4), England (4), Germany (3), Italy (3), France (2).  All of them qualified directly to the group stage.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 12, 2019, 12:16:54 PM
Looks like the city of Charlotte is going to spend $110 million to help our newest resident billionaire, Panthers owner David Tepper, bring an MLS expansion franchise here.

I'm neither here nor there on us having a team -- I probably won't go to any games, but I'm not against having a franchise.

Still, with all the needs Charlotte has, and knowing that Tepper soon will be asking for significantly more money than that for a new Panthers stadium, it's pretty hard for me to justify such a giveaway to a billionaire.

I thought I saw that they were gonna use the funds to upgrade BoA stadium.  Similar to what Chicago did to update Soldier Field for example.  And that it was hospitality funds, so it wouldn't be some new tax.

As for the soccer aspect, this should be a great fit, given the success of the programs at UNC, Duke, Wake, and others in the area.  Seems even more ripe than other recent expansion markets like St Louis or Sacramento.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on December 12, 2019, 01:36:17 PM
I thought I saw that they were gonna use the funds to upgrade BoA stadium.  Similar to what Chicago did to update Soldier Field for example.  And that it was hospitality funds, so it wouldn't be some new tax.

As for the soccer aspect, this should be a great fit, given the success of the programs at UNC, Duke, Wake, and others in the area.  Seems even more ripe than other recent expansion markets like St Louis or Sacramento.

It's not an infinite pool of funds. There isn't anywhere near enough $$$ in the hospitality reserves right now, so they would be promising future hospitality-tax funds toward this. And then, in 5 years, when Tepper asks for $500M or more for the new domed Panthers stadium he wants (and implies that he might move the team if he doesn't get it), where does that money come from to help the rich guy get richer?

Why spend $100M-$200M now to make soccer-specific improvements on BoA now when $1B or more will needed for a new stadium not very far down the line? Seems short-sighted just to get an MLS team.

As you can tell, if they put this on a referendum, I'd vote no. I wouldn't go out and campaign against it -- I'm not that violently opposed, however. I agree folks here probably would give an MLS team decent support. The guys I'll be having a few beers with later today are huge futbol fans and are stoked for the arrival of this team.

I just hope that 5-8 years from now, we don't lose our NFL team because there's no money for a football stadium. "Look at the bright side, though, at least we still have Charlotte FC" ... is something I don't really want to hear.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on December 12, 2019, 05:10:13 PM
Looks like the city of Charlotte is going to spend $110 million to help our newest resident billionaire, Panthers owner David Tepper, bring an MLS expansion franchise here.

I really feel Milwaukee missed the boat here. They had an ownership group led by Peter Wilt, a Marquette alum and the GM of the Chicago Fire team that won the MLS Cup with Bob Bradley at the helm. When the Harley Museum pulled out of the Park East Corridor, there was a proposal to bring a team here. With Wilt at the helm, we likely would've landed a franchise, but the City wasn't willing to pull the trigger. I suppose it worked out for the Bucks, but the Corridor sat empty for 15 years because of it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 12, 2019, 06:20:49 PM
Ehh. Milwaukee has one of, if not the, most successful MASL teams, won the championship last year, and still barely averaged over 4,000 fans a game.  Now that number would probably go up for an MLS team, but I just don't think there'd be enough support for it to be feasible.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 13, 2019, 08:56:00 AM
Ehh. Milwaukee has one of, if not the, most successful MASL teams, won the championship last year, and still barely averaged over 4,000 fans a game.  Now that number would probably go up for an MLS team, but I just don't think there'd be enough support for it to be feasible.

Thats not completely fair.  They led the MASL in attendance last year. And have been 1 or 2 for a long while.  Thats just a function of a league with no TV exposure, minimal advertising, and no brand recognition.  The Wave's long term existence and their attendance outpacing stuff like UWM and MU women speak to the strength of Milwaukee as a market.  Milwaukee Kickers was the largest youth soccer organization in the country for awhile. 

The financial/investor support may not be there, but Milwaukee would have no issue supporting an MLS team IMO.  Look at the supporter success of FC Cincinnati.  I see it very similarly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 13, 2019, 09:10:38 AM
Might not be fair to compare MASL to MLS, but I also don't think it's fair to look at Cincinnati's one year of data, and say it'd be a success.  It was the new ticket in town, teams always do well in their first year.  They were also the worst team in the league by a considerable margin (although this was expected), if they continue to be terrible, that attendance won't remain high for long.  Minnesota's attendance dropped from '18 to '19, and both Columbus and Chicago have been bottom 5 in attendance for a while now.  Comparing Milwaukee to cities that are actually getting a team (Sacramento, Austin etc.) and the overall level of interest in the sport isn't even close.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on December 13, 2019, 09:21:34 AM
I really feel Milwaukee missed the boat here. They had an ownership group led by Peter Wilt, a Marquette alum and the GM of the Chicago Fire team that won the MLS Cup with Bob Bradley at the helm. When the Harley Museum pulled out of the Park East Corridor, there was a proposal to bring a team here. With Wilt at the helm, we likely would've landed a franchise, but the City wasn't willing to pull the trigger. I suppose it worked out for the Bucks, but the Corridor sat empty for 15 years because of it.

Pete was a classmate of mine, a fellow Journalism major and a good friend way back when. A truly unique guy. He owned an Edsel when we were in college; had to put blocks behind the wheels because his parking brake didn't work. He did a fine job helping build (and spreading the word about) the Chicago Fire. I didn't know he was pursuing a franchise for Milwaukee; y'all can have ours - ha!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 13, 2019, 09:59:25 AM
Peter Wilt was instrumental in getting the Madson USL club up and running this past year.  The League One side outdrew many USL Championship level teams.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 13, 2019, 03:43:37 PM
Might not be fair to compare MASL to MLS, but I also don't think it's fair to look at Cincinnati's one year of data, and say it'd be a success.  It was the new ticket in town, teams always do well in their first year.  They were also the worst team in the league by a considerable margin (although this was expected), if they continue to be terrible, that attendance won't remain high for long.  Minnesota's attendance dropped from '18 to '19, and both Columbus and Chicago have been bottom 5 in attendance for a while now.  Comparing Milwaukee to cities that are actually getting a team (Sacramento, Austin etc.) and the overall level of interest in the sport isn't even close.

I was referring to FC Cincinnati’s entire history. Part of the reason they got an expansion club there was the success of their attendance as a USL squad. They’d routinely draw 20K+ as a “minor league” team. So I’d disagree their attendance will fall off.  This wasn’t a curiosity, new car smell attendance boost. Their numbers compared fairly closely with their USL days, only like a 5% increase.  Columbus attendance ebb and flow has been a curiosity, but Chicago isn’t fair. That’s a rabid soccer market, but the attendance is entirely affected by stadium location. With the Fire returning to the city next year, I think it’s a different story.

Not sure why the interest is “not even close”...based on? Austin, sure, Sacramento is only an expansion player cause they have an established USL team, not exactly a large, vibrant market. Milwaukee is no less a viable candidate than St Louis. Nashville is literally only getting a team because multiple billionaire families are spearheading it.  If Milwaukee had a USL team, it would be in the discussion easily if the city had abided. And look at Madison to see the success of upstart soccer in Wisconsin.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on December 13, 2019, 06:33:11 PM
Peter Wilt was instrumental in getting the Madson USL club up and running this past year.  The League One side outdrew many USL Championship level teams.

He's done a great job promoting the Mingos. If anyone could've made a Milwaukee MLS franchise work, it's Wilt. Just like he did with the Fire, the Wave, & the Flamingos.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 13, 2019, 09:33:55 PM
I was referring to FC Cincinnati’s entire history. Part of the reason they got an expansion club there was the success of their attendance as a USL squad. They’d routinely draw 20K+ as a “minor league” team. So I’d disagree their attendance will fall off.  This wasn’t a curiosity, new car smell attendance boost. Their numbers compared fairly closely with their USL days, only like a 5% increase.  Columbus attendance ebb and flow has been a curiosity, but Chicago isn’t fair. That’s a rabid soccer market, but the attendance is entirely affected by stadium location. With the Fire returning to the city next year, I think it’s a different story.

Not sure why the interest is “not even close”...based on? Austin, sure, Sacramento is only an expansion player cause they have an established USL team, not exactly a large, vibrant market. Milwaukee is no less a viable candidate than St Louis. Nashville is literally only getting a team because multiple billionaire families are spearheading it.  If Milwaukee had a USL team, it would be in the discussion easily if the city had abided. And look at Madison to see the success of upstart soccer in Wisconsin.

Everytime im in Cincinnati, I non stop see people sporting FC Cincinnati gear, stickers, etc.  The team is heavily promoted.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on December 14, 2019, 03:05:41 PM
Story in today's Charlotte Observer about how the new MLS franchises in St. Louis and Miami have not needed to use taxpayer dollars at all. Sad to see taxpayers here footing a billionaire's bill.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 14, 2019, 03:07:22 PM
Story in today's Charlotte Observer about how the new MLS franchises in St. Louis and Miami have not needed to use taxpayer dollars at all. Sad to see taxpayers here footing a billionaire's bill.


The game you gotta play.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 14, 2019, 03:11:53 PM
Has there been any impartial study that taxpayer subsidy of a sports team/stadium (or any other corporate welfare - Amazon, for example) is a benefit to the local community/economy?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 14, 2019, 03:41:02 PM
It can produce localized benefits. Like to a neighborhood or a downtown. But usually not to an overall region.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 15, 2019, 10:54:40 AM
It can produce localized benefits. Like to a neighborhood or a downtown. But usually not to an overall region.

Is that greater than the taxpayer burden?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on December 15, 2019, 11:04:31 AM
Is that greater than the taxpayer burden?

It's worth keeping in mind that many of these stadium deals are funded either through taxes on tourism or tax rebates on revenues generated by the stadium itself. For example, the public money for the new Raiders stadium in Vegas is being provided through an increase on hotel taxes which is paid almost exclusively by out-of-towners. Or the Nashville soccer stadium, bonds foer which will be repaid through a team lease, a tax on ticket sales and a sales tax on purchases at the stadium.

I'm not arguing whether these deals are good or bad, or whether the benefits outweigh the costs, but by and large the public money for these projects isn't coming out of local residents' pockets.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 16, 2019, 12:09:37 PM
It's official.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/major-league-soccer/story/4014801/sources-charlotte-to-become-mls-30th-franchise-for-record-$325-million

Really hope they stop at 30, the quality in play has slowly been dropping for a few years now.  Commit to 30, stay with it for the foreseeable future, let the franchises develop their respective academies, and overall quality will rise across the board.  Also, stop bringing in the ageing stars, I like that more and more of the DP's have been younger players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 16, 2019, 02:38:32 PM
It's official.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/major-league-soccer/story/4014801/sources-charlotte-to-become-mls-30th-franchise-for-record-$325-million

Really hope they stop at 30, the quality in play has slowly been dropping for a few years now.  Commit to 30, stay with it for the foreseeable future, let the franchises develop their respective academies, and overall quality will rise across the board.  Also, stop bringing in the ageing stars, I like that more and more of the DP's have been younger players.

30 already is too many IMO, but thats also probably a function of my desire for pro/rel that will never come.

And actually totally agree on the DPs.  2019 was the first year that I could look through the list of DPs and its mostly either the aforementioned aging stars, or young talent, a lot from South America.  Id love to see the MLS become like the Eredivisie.  Entertaining soccer that is a springboard to the greater leagues in Europe.  For awhile, I remember seeing too many DPs like Nemanja Nikolic.  Late 20s from a middle tier European league (I remember seeing DPs that came from the Hungarian league, Norwegian Eliteserin, Danish Superliga, etc).  They missed their shot at a top 4 league and at best would be a contributor at a team that sneaks into the CL group stages through qualifiers.  But then come to the MLS and make a bundle but not really improve the profile of the league.  Now they need players like Josef Martinez and others to level up to La Liga and elsewhere after excelling in the MLS to prove that path.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 17, 2019, 10:44:42 AM
Story in today's Charlotte Observer about how the new MLS franchises in St. Louis and Miami have not needed to use taxpayer dollars at all. Sad to see taxpayers here footing a billionaire's bill.

The reason why St. Louis didn't have a team sooner is because in today's MLS, you need billionaire type money. There were multiple different attempts, but not an owner with Big boy Big girl money so to speak.

The Taylor family (founders of Enterprise Rent-a-Car $26 billion revenue) are the money people. They are not sports people. They have done a ton of charitable things in many categories. They are the last resort. When Kroenke moved the Rams, they wanted to do something. So they have partnered with soccer people. Previously, quietly they became a quiet minority owner in the St. Louis Blues years ago. (One of a few dozen) The Taylor family was well aware that there is zero appetite in St. Louis for public money for teams and stadiums after what happened with the Rams. So they came in as a last resort. They will do it first class. They have a strong reputation. But again it takes a lot of money these days to get involved.

Tepper is paying $325 million entry fee in Charlotte. This morning it was said there will be a $110 million tourism tax incentives for football stadium renovations and new Eastland headquarters for the team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on December 17, 2019, 01:44:25 PM

December/January brings FA cup 3rd round, busy Christmas league schedule, closing of Champions League group stage and possibly League Cup games. Right when you think you’re out of the busy game schedule, congratulations make the semis of the League Cup and you’re given a two legged playoff! Fantastic….. All for qualification into the black hole that is Europa league. Big clubs don’t need the League Cup unless of course they have the squad players to make a deep run.

Given the choice, no manager or fan for that matter would prioritize League Cup ahead of the other three competitions listed.

Bump

https://twitter.com/lfc/status/1207005070396706818
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 17, 2019, 01:54:02 PM
Bump

https://twitter.com/lfc/status/1207005070396706818

They're only throwing out the youth team because of the Club World Cup game tomorrow.  Klopp's not even there.  You won't see full strength sides, but in the other 3 League Cup games tomorrow, you will not see a full squad change that Liverpool was forced into.  If the 1st team wasn't in Qatar right now you would see a lot more familiar faces.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 17, 2019, 02:00:47 PM
Bump

https://twitter.com/lfc/status/1207005070396706818


Hey, with a Longstaff on your side, not all is bad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on December 17, 2019, 02:28:12 PM
The goals have been self-inflicted, but that Liverpool U-23 team has been better than Villa for much of the first half.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 17, 2019, 07:37:09 PM

Hey, with a Longstaff on your side, not all is bad.

Bet longstaff scores a lot.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 17, 2019, 08:35:59 PM
They're only throwing out the youth team because of the Club World Cup game tomorrow.  Klopp's not even there.  You won't see full strength sides, but in the other 3 League Cup games tomorrow, you will not see a full squad change that Liverpool was forced into.  If the 1st team wasn't in Qatar right now you would see a lot more familiar faces.

Pretty rare to see a startinG 11 that to the man won’t see ANY match time in the EPL. Well Jones popped his cherry last week, but other than that, the rest of those guys aren’t even on the bench. Even Brewster wasn’t there. Extenuating circumstances of course, but still amazing
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 18, 2019, 12:00:23 PM
3 acres of weed?  Tottenham Hotbox, aina?

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/daniel-levy-new-tottenham-stadium-club-new-dawn-a4316696.html (https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/daniel-levy-new-tottenham-stadium-club-new-dawn-a4316696.html)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 18, 2019, 01:52:22 PM

December/January brings FA cup 3rd round, busy Christmas league schedule, closing of Champions League group stage and possibly League Cup games. Right when you think you’re out of the busy game schedule, congratulations make the semis of the League Cup and you’re given a two legged playoff! Fantastic….. All for qualification into the black hole that is Europa league. Big clubs don’t need the League Cup unless of course they have the squad players to make a deep run.

Given the choice, no manager or fan for that matter would prioritize League Cup ahead of the other three competitions listed.

Everton, Leicester, and United all throwing out full, or nearly full strength squads.  City including some youngsters, but still a world class front line.  League cup is the second least prioritized trophy in England (behind the Community Shield), but teams still play for it, and were it not for the Club World Cup, Liverpool would have put out an equally as strong line-up yesterday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on January 13, 2020, 12:32:09 PM
Marquette's Patrick Seagrist and Luka Prpa go #10 and #32 overall, respectively, in the MLS draft.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 21, 2020, 08:31:40 AM
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/01/20/toronto-fc-captain-michael-bradley-undergo-ankle-surgery-could-be-out-four-months

Nothing against Bradley, but I really hope that this ends his international career.  Just a case of needing to move on, especially with Adams coming into his own in Leipzig.

Still think the biggest questions are in the defensive end, Steffen hasn't exactly lit up Germany since going back, Brooks hasn't been great either, but I still think he's the best CB of the group, Miazga's been disappointing based on his potential, CCV needs to move on, and it's tough to gauge Palmer-Brown when he's only in Austria.  I really don't want to have to be reliant on the MLS CB's, but if they're the only one's getting consistent game time, I don't know what other choice there is.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 21, 2020, 10:29:09 AM
Still think the biggest questions are in the defensive end, Steffen hasn't exactly lit up Germany since going back, Brooks hasn't been great either, but I still think he's the best CB of the group, Miazga's been disappointing based on his potential, CCV needs to move on, and it's tough to gauge Palmer-Brown when he's only in Austria.  I really don't want to have to be reliant on the MLS CB's, but if they're the only one's getting consistent game time, I don't know what other choice there is.

I dont think this is fair at all.  Hes unfortunately not on a very good club, but he's draw plenty of praise for his play.  Numerous team of the week honors in the Bundesliga, and even when Fortuna has gotten shelled, people have been quick to defend him and remove fault from him.  He's been battling some knee issues since mid fall, but otherwise I think his performance has been very encouraging and there isn't much out there to say otherwise.

I think the only positive about CCV is that Spurs are keeping close enough of an eye on him to pull him back to London once they realized the new manager at Stoke wasn't super keen on him.  Would be nice if he can be moved again by the end of this winter window.  He's still only 22, which is crazy.

Really wish Aaron Long had gotten that EPL move.  Feel like he's gonna plateau in MLS otherwise.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 21, 2020, 10:56:10 AM
I dont think this is fair at all.  Hes unfortunately not on a very good club, but he's draw plenty of praise for his play.  Numerous team of the week honors in the Bundesliga, and even when Fortuna has gotten shelled, people have been quick to defend him and remove fault from him.  He's been battling some knee issues since mid fall, but otherwise I think his performance has been very encouraging and there isn't much out there to say otherwise.

I've been pretty underwhelmed concerning his abilities with his feet.  If we were just playing the "boot ball" of the 90s and 00s, he'd be fine, but I would be majorly concerned with him against anybody that initiates a high press.  My concern is that, outside of Mexico, we won't see any decent press in CONCACAF, and then we'll just be totally overwhelmed when someone throws it at us in a high level meaningful game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 06, 2020, 08:22:33 PM
Jay Berhalter stepping down.

https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2020/02/06/us-soccer-usmnt-uswnt-jay-berhalter-carlos-cordeiro/amp/?__twitter_impression=true (https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2020/02/06/us-soccer-usmnt-uswnt-jay-berhalter-carlos-cordeiro/amp/?__twitter_impression=true)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on February 06, 2020, 10:14:10 PM
Jay Berhalter stepping down.

https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2020/02/06/us-soccer-usmnt-uswnt-jay-berhalter-carlos-cordeiro/amp/?__twitter_impression=true (https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2020/02/06/us-soccer-usmnt-uswnt-jay-berhalter-carlos-cordeiro/amp/?__twitter_impression=true)

1 Berhalter down, 1 to go
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 08, 2020, 05:22:31 PM
The final four of the Copa del Rey. Two teams who have never won it (Grenada and Mirandes, the latter of which is a second tier side.) And two teams who haven’t won it since the 80s (Bilbao and Sociedad).

Real, Barcelona and Valencia, who won it last year, all lost this week.

That’s kind of cool.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUDPT on February 09, 2020, 03:12:47 AM
Louis Bennett signed with Madison last week.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on February 09, 2020, 07:50:17 PM
Louis Bennett signed with Madison last week.

Actually good friends with Louis. Been on loan in Madison for a while now.  Getting the minutes he didn't in Memphis.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 14, 2020, 01:07:52 PM
City banned from Europe for 2 seasons due to FFP violations.  Can appeal to court of arbitration, but big if upheld.

PSG and Juve next?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on February 14, 2020, 01:24:35 PM
Tough situation for UEFA; while there's zero doubt in my mind that City has falsified it's financial records, there also zero doubt in my mind that nearly every (if not all) big European clubs have done the same thing (albeit not to as severe of a degree), and I really don't think this ban will do anything to scare them off from continuing to do that.  I think it'll likely get reduced, but in the end, won't really change the way that these clubs operate.  UEFA can't ban everybody, because they need the big name clubs in their competitions.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 14, 2020, 02:43:53 PM
Reading that the Premier League will likely dock them points too based on innaccurate financial information on the PL licensing application.  However the PL could, but very likely would NOT, kick them out of the league.  And according to the Football League's rules, any club that is evicted from the PL for those reasons, would have to start in League Two.  The fourth level of the English football system.

Which would be hilarious.  But won't happen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 27, 2020, 06:03:17 PM
"You wont play on Thursdays any more because you're sh!te."

FOYG.  8-) 8-) 8-)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUDPT on March 04, 2020, 08:27:11 PM
"You wont play on Thursdays any more because you're sh!te."

FOYG.  8-) 8-) 8-)

Arsenal are a lot like MU for me now. Used to plan my weekends around games. Now, just total apathy, like watching the last 5 minutes last night.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUDPT on March 12, 2020, 05:38:44 PM
Arteta has COVID-19. I’d expect EPL to go away for awhile.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 12, 2020, 06:00:36 PM
Arteta has COVID-19. I’d expect EPL to go away for awhile.
Announced within minutes of EPL announcing they were going to play.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 12, 2020, 06:44:47 PM
Now they won’t play. Euro 2020 postponed to 2021. Champions League and Europa League to be postponed and played in the summer pending FIFA approval.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on March 12, 2020, 08:21:29 PM
Carlos Cordeiro just resigned.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 12, 2020, 08:23:12 PM
Carlos Cordeiro just resigned.

As well he should
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 12, 2020, 08:54:12 PM
Carlos Cordeiro just resigned.

F*ucker should be forced to stand in goal while each member of the WNT gets to take PKs on him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 13, 2020, 07:13:30 AM
So within like an hour of EPL saying they were going to play this weekend a manager is tested positive and a Chelsea player is tested positive. What a bunch of buffoons.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 13, 2020, 12:43:53 PM
https://twitter.com/cboehm/status/1238452788256034818?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 13, 2020, 01:53:06 PM
https://twitter.com/cboehm/status/1238452788256034818?s=19


And the Bundesliga changed course a few hours later.  They postponed as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on April 06, 2020, 06:38:56 PM
https://www.espn.com/soccer/blog-fifa/story/4083004/us-prosecutors-allege-bribesillegal-payments-in-22-world-cup-vote

Not exactly surprising, still don't see much changing anytime soon.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 07, 2020, 10:33:06 PM
Spurs/Levy are not backing down from their decision to lay off their non playing staff on to the UK government 80% pay scheme.   Though Levy has offered to cover the extra 20% if they work at his estate.

Today, Mourinho and Ndombele met up for a practice session in a public park.  Jose in full Spurple gear.  Sess and Sanchez stopped by too after they were out for a run together.

This Amazon documentary is going to be bananas.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 07, 2020, 10:48:30 PM
Spurs/Levy are not backing down from their decision to lay off their non playing staff on to the UK government 80% pay scheme.   Though Levy has offered to cover the extra 20% if they work at his estate.

Today, Mourinho and Ndombele met up for a practice session in a public park.  Jose in full Spurple gear.  Sess and Sanchez stopped by too after they were out for a run together.

This Amazon documentary is going to be bananas.

Great minds, ZFB...

The Amazon-made Tottenham documentary for this past season is going to be absolutely drama-filled.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 20, 2020, 10:40:25 AM
Saudi Arabian royalty finalized purchase of Newcastle United.

Man City 2.0 coming.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 20, 2020, 01:24:28 PM
Saudi Arabian royalty finalized purchase of Newcastle United.

Man City 2.0 coming.

The craziest part of the story, besides how much money the Saudi Soverign Wealth fund has, is that the Reuben brothers are also involved.  They are the second wealthiest family in the UK on their own, and them buying a team would set up Man City 2.0 on their own.  But kicking in with the Crown Prince means this is going to be obscene.  Restructing this squad is going to look like a kid playing FIFA with the rules turned off.

Also, LOL funny reading comments from Steve Bruce that suggest anything other than him getting punted back to the Midlands.  Allegri or Poch seem most likely, but bringing Rafa back would make me chuckle.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 20, 2020, 01:48:13 PM
Saudi Arabian royalty finalized purchase of Newcastle United.

Man City 2.0 coming.

FFP should prevent another man city, but will probably depend on the bribes offered to the court of appeal for sport and if city gets its European ban overturned.

I dont see Poch taking on this project.  Think he'll go outside the prem.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on April 20, 2020, 09:24:25 PM
I could very easily see Bruce keeping the job for a while.  Covid is going to keep all transfers relatively subdued this summer, so don't expect some 200+ mil window, and comparing this to City, they kept Mark Hughes for a few years after their takeover.  Don't see Poch going anywhere but back to Spain, and Allegri supposedly knows very little English, which I would imagine would be a deal breaker.  If they do move on from Bruce, I could see them going after someone like Slaven Bilic, Premier League experience, and doing a very solid job getting West Brom all but assuredly promoted this year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 21, 2020, 12:00:12 AM
Hughes lasted a season. After his first year, they splashed on Toure, Tevez, and others and they sacked him before Christmas for Mancini.

I agree about Poch and even if not Allegri, no chance it’s Bilic. That’s a sensible hire for a new owner to make for a low level PL club. These guys want to make a splash and hiring the dude who last finished 11th in the Prem and couldn’t keep Payet happy and crashed out of Europa to a Romanian club. It’s gonna be a big name manager
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on April 21, 2020, 08:05:33 AM
I mean, define "big name" then, because I think that Bilic would actually do a pretty good job when there's going to be a transition period to a different type of talent that they can now attract.  You can't "crash out of Europe" unless you get to Europe, which accomplishing with West Ham is no small feat, and I don't think you can pin the Payet thing on him, when there is literally nothing anyone could have done.  There's rumors that Roberto Martinez may be available after the Euro's, is he a big name?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 21, 2020, 08:49:54 AM
Cmon...Newcastle isn't going to fire Steve Bruce, who is actually doing a decent job this year, to hire Slaven Bilic.  Seriously, you think these Saudis are using their money to hire the manager of West Brom???

They'll go after a big name.  Maybe PSG will sack Tuchel.  Maybe they'll go after Favre at Dortmund.  Really is going to depend on how they want to play.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on April 21, 2020, 08:57:40 AM
Cmon...Newcastle isn't going to fire Steve Bruce, who is actually doing a decent job this year, to hire Slaven Bilic.  Seriously, you think these Saudis are using their money to hire the manager of West Brom???

They'll go after a big name.  Maybe PSG will sack Tuchel.  Maybe they'll go after Favre at Dortmund.  Really is going to depend on how they want to play.

Read the first sentence of my post.  I think Bruce will stay too.  I was saying that "if" they fire him, Bilic could be a target.  Any managerial change will be coming in the next couple of weeks, so you can automatically rule out any manager that is still in the Champions League, as that was announced to resume in August.  So no Tuchel, no Sarri, no Gasperini (who I also think would do a good job), no Nagelsmann etc. 

While Newcastle will be able to spend more money this upcoming window, don't expect any major overhauls until Covid passes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 06, 2020, 12:04:31 PM
Bundesliga starting up May 15 or 22 with no fans.

Live sports besides Korean baseball!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 22, 2020, 12:54:01 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/liga-mx-cancels-clausura-2020-season-due-to-coronavirus-pandemic-a-champion-will-not-be-crowned-in-mexico/

Liga MX canceled.  Looking likely that any MLS play will just be an Orlando tournament.  Things might have changed, but I thought that UEFA had a deadline of the 25th for leagues to present their plans to finish the season, and it doesn't really look like the Premier League is any closer to agreeing on a plan than they were a few weeks ago.  Players don't want to train/play because they don't think it is safe enough, teams can't decide on whether games can be played on neutral sites.  Will be interesting to see what developments happen and how hard that May 25th deadline really is.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on June 03, 2020, 01:51:41 PM
https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2020/5/29/21274244/report-new-concacaf-world-cup-qualifying-format-12-teams-3-groups

Reported new CONCACAF qualifying format.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 20, 2020, 04:58:29 PM
Chris Richards came on in the 84th minute for Bayern. He’s a true home grown American out of FC Dallas’ academy, not a Fabian Johnson/John Brooks situation. Pretty exciting, already has more appearances than Julian Green  :o  That plus an assist for Gio Reyna. Nice day in the Bundesliga for the USMNT
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 20, 2020, 08:44:57 PM
Chris Richards came on in the 84th minute for Bayern. He’s a true home grown American out of FC Dallas’ academy, not a Fabian Johnson/John Brooks situation. Pretty exciting, already has more appearances than Julian Green  :o  That plus an assist for Gio Reyna. Nice day in the Bundesliga for the USMNT

The amount of games in a short amount of time will give lots of opportunities to youngsters. Hopefully he can take advantage of the opportunity.

I really like his game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 25, 2020, 11:08:27 AM
https://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-womens-world-cup/story/4120951/australianew-zealand-win-bid-to-host-2023-womens-world-cup

Australia and New Zealand to host 2023 WWC.  Gonna suck for anyone that wants to watch live, but 100% the right decision given the countries bidding.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on June 25, 2020, 11:14:54 AM
https://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-womens-world-cup/story/4120951/australianew-zealand-win-bid-to-host-2023-womens-world-cup

Australia and New Zealand to host 2023 WWC.  Gonna suck for anyone that wants to watch live, but 100% the right decision given the countries bidding.

I have many years experience watching Australian Open Tennis. It would be good time zone practice viewing for the World Cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on June 25, 2020, 03:02:51 PM
Christian Pulisic on the board today for Chelsea v Manchester City:

https://twitter.com/nbcsportssoccer/status/1276243034859077632
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 25, 2020, 03:32:19 PM
Christian Pulisic on the board today for Chelsea v Manchester City:

https://twitter.com/nbcsportssoccer/status/1276243034859077632

That hesitation was FILTHY
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 26, 2020, 09:35:09 AM
I mean, this is pretty cool even if you're not a fan of Liverpool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHEthsO7T7w
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 26, 2020, 11:31:37 AM
I mean, this is pretty cool even if you're not a fan of Liverpool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHEthsO7T7w

I’ve never in my life had a coach of a team I support that I love more than Klopp. Never thought a German could embody a club like Liverpool, but he does. His interview yesterday was perfect. Understated and respectful calling out the Liverpool legends before him, quietly smiling and letting Daglish have his moment rambling in his kitchen. The most PAINFUL part of this title is not being able to see Klopp celebrate on the touchline fist pumping and hugging everyone.  He has a CL title and now broke the EPL drought. I hope he doesn’t get bored and look for the next challenge like so many managers, I hope he becomes the next Ferguson or Wenger.

Incredible video, saw it earlier but so glad to watch again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 02, 2020, 01:46:17 PM
https://twitter.com/footballiceland/status/1278347367268470790

Crest is pretty meh IMO, but this announcement video is truly outstanding.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 02, 2020, 02:10:42 PM
Spurs are making me sad the Premiere League ever returned.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 02, 2020, 02:19:06 PM
Spurs are making me sad the Premiere League ever returned.

Not that I am a fan (a couple of close friends are) but did Arsenal get the memo games are back on?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 02, 2020, 02:24:30 PM
Not that I am a fan (a couple of close friends are) but did Arsenal get the memo games are back on?

Took them awhile but did win 4-0 yesterday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 02, 2020, 03:30:48 PM
https://twitter.com/footballiceland/status/1278347367268470790

Crest is pretty meh IMO, but this announcement video is truly outstanding.

I actually love the crest. I’d expect nothing less from a country that has an epic Viking clap at matches.

Pretty incredible that a country that wouldn’t been be a top 50 city in the US by population, with a very mediocre Domestic league, has created a very legit national squad
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 02, 2020, 03:40:21 PM
I actually love the crest. I’d expect nothing less from a country that has an epic Viking clap at matches.

Pretty incredible that a country that wouldn’t been be a top 50 city in the US by population, with a very mediocre Domestic league, has created a very legit national squad

great video (created by their Keeper) and I love that crest since it represents Icelandic mythology and culture.

I don't think they have staying power. This is a golden generation for them. That Euro run was awesome though. As a fan of the Three Lions, I was totally ok with Iceland beating them because it's freaking Iceland.

They do have a strong women's league, however.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 02, 2020, 03:42:09 PM
I actually love the crest. I’d expect nothing less from a country that has an epic Viking clap at matches.

Pretty incredible that a country that wouldn’t been be a top 50 city in the US by population, with a very mediocre Domestic league, has created a very legit national squad

I worded it poorly, it's not necessarily the style of artwork that throws me off, it's more of the fact that I have no clue why someone would make a crest featuring a Bull, Dragon, Eagle, and Giant.  Any Norse experts out there that can provide some background?

I don't mind crests that feature animals, although Eagles are overdone IMO.  The "Don't Tread On Me" themed one with the timber rattler for the US is probably my all time favorite.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 02, 2020, 03:43:58 PM
Took them awhile but did win 4-0 yesterday.

yeah, but over Norwich.

Leicester is driving me crazy and possibly losing their remaining home games due to the COVID spike in the city may leave them out of Europe.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 02, 2020, 04:30:05 PM
I worded it poorly, it's not necessarily the style of artwork that throws me off, it's more of the fact that I have no clue why someone would make a crest featuring a Bull, Dragon, Eagle, and Giant.  Any Norse experts out there that can provide some background?

In Icelandic lore, the island is protected by 4 “landvættir” and they are....a Bull, a Dragon, an Eagle, and a Giant.

It honestly predates the start of lions as the national symbol of England.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 02, 2020, 04:41:03 PM
Not that I am a fan (a couple of close friends are) but did Arsenal get the memo games are back on?

They've won three of their five matches since the restart.

If that is them "asleep" I'd hate to see what they do when awake and ready. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Tortuga94 on July 04, 2020, 11:48:10 AM
I've always enjoyed watching the EPL, I don't really have a team though, but I really enjoy watching Wolverhampton this season.
They play a very nice style of football. I like Nuno's style of play. It's a shame they won't be able to keep Traore and Jimenez, as I'm sure at least one of them gets bought by a bigger club and maybe they both do. Hope they can find a way to keep them both and the qualify for Champions League play.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 04, 2020, 01:25:06 PM
They've won three of their five matches since the restart.

If that is them "asleep" I'd hate to see what they do when awake and ready.

And a great away win today.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 04, 2020, 06:59:24 PM
And a great away win today.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on July 04, 2020, 08:54:12 PM
My Real Madrid plays Atletico at 7am Sunday...any idea who will broadcast it here in USA?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 04, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
My Real Madrid plays Atletico at 7am Sunday...any idea who will broadcast it here in USA?

Cool of you to support a plucky upstart!

Unfortunately, LaLiga has the worst TV package in the US of the 4 major Euro leagues. It will be on BEin Sports, which is not in most cable packages
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 05, 2020, 06:04:05 AM
My Real Madrid plays Atletico at 7am Sunday...any idea who will broadcast it here in USA?


They aren't playing Atletico.  They are playing Athletic Bilbao.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: HouWarrior on July 06, 2020, 03:49:06 PM
Cool of you to support a plucky upstart!

Unfortunately, LaLiga has the worst TV package in the US of the 4 major Euro leagues. It will be on BEin Sports, which is not in most cable packages
Thanks
I have been a fan since Franco's folks ordered me to be one while living there in the 70s. lol
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 06, 2020, 04:35:38 PM
I have always loved soccer but have put it on the backburner since there are US sports in better TV time slots.  It's been oddly nice dedicating my viewing time solely to soccer. Having a lot of fun watching Premier League/having it in the background while working, even with the title already decided.

Hoping Fulham earns a promotion spot through the playoff but I have my doubts with Scott Parker in charge.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 07, 2020, 12:44:44 PM
I have always loved soccer but have put it on the backburner since there are US sports in better TV time slots.  It's been oddly nice dedicating my viewing time solely to soccer. Having a lot of fun watching Premier League/having it in the background while working, even with the title already decided.

Hoping Fulham earns a promotion spot through the playoff but I have my doubts with Scott Parker in charge.

I’m a massive soccer fan, but even beyond that, one of my fav things to do on Saturday mornings if I wasn’t interested in the early matches is wake up and turn the broadcast on cause the ebb and flow of crowd noise as play goes up and down the pitch was amazing background noise for the “nap” of going back to sleep for another hour or so.

And I can’t believe Parker is a manager now, feel so old. He also has one of the all time preppy douche-style punchable faces in English football

In other news, Pulisic scores again for Chelsea today. He’s been incandescent since the restart
https://twitter.com/foxsoccer/status/1280555076654977024?s=21
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 10, 2020, 09:03:38 AM
What a Champions League Draw.  There are no bad teams in the competition, especially at this point, but one side is way more stacked than the other.  City, Real, Juve, Barca, and Bayern all on the same side, brutal.  Compared to a Werner-less Leipzig, a PSG side that won't have played since March, Cinderella story Atalanta, and an admittedly solid Athletico squad.  Adrian has to be kicking himself all over again, because it would have been a pretty formal walk to the final had he not had those blunders.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on July 10, 2020, 10:21:39 AM
Chelsea did a video of Pulisic:

"Every single touch"

https://twitter.com/ChelseaFC/status/1281532716023009281?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 10, 2020, 11:57:35 AM
Chelsea did a video of Pulisic:

"Every single touch"

https://twitter.com/ChelseaFC/status/1281532716023009281?s=19

My best friend is a big soccer guy but he’s always been amused/borderline annoyed by the Pulisic treatment that ESPN/NBCSN/etc gives. Like Chelsea would win 3-0, Pulisic would play 15 min with little action and the headline would be “Pulisic and Chelsea triumph 3-0. Or the top players under 22 list that ESPN did that didn’t have Pulisic top 5-10, I think he was in the teens, but he was on the headline graphic with Sancho and Mbappe. This sort of feels a bit pandering to the US market like that.

THAT BEING SAID, I’d argue he may very well have been Chelsea’s best player since the restart and he deserves all the attention and praise he’s getting. I never had an issue with the slanted coverage cause he’s literally the best American prospect in years, perhaps ever, and he’s getting regular and meaningful action for one of the biggest clubs in the world.  It’s super fun.

I remember being super excited at the thought of Clint Dempsey joining LFC awhile ago. He would have never been more than a bit player there, much like he was at Spurs, but it was still a moment. This far surpasses that
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on July 10, 2020, 12:29:20 PM
My best friend is a big soccer guy but he’s always been amused/borderline annoyed by the Pulisic treatment that ESPN/NBCSN/etc gives. Like Chelsea would win 3-0, Pulisic would play 15 min with little action and the headline would be “Pulisic and Chelsea triumph 3-0. Or the top players under 22 list that ESPN did that didn’t have Pulisic top 5-10, I think he was in the teens, but he was on the headline graphic with Sancho and Mbappe. This sort of feels a bit pandering to the US market like that.

THAT BEING SAID, I’d argue he may very well have been Chelsea’s best player since the restart and he deserves all the attention and praise he’s getting. I never had an issue with the slanted coverage cause he’s literally the best American prospect in years, perhaps ever, and he’s getting regular and meaningful action for one of the biggest clubs in the world.  It’s super fun.

I remember being super excited at the thought of Clint Dempsey joining LFC awhile ago. He would have never been more than a bit player there, much like he was at Spurs, but it was still a moment. This far surpasses that

Certainly there is a marketing/sales aspect to his coverage. But his level of play post re-start has been legit both statistically and eye test. And there is potential for a few to several American players to play more consistently, at higher levels in Europe's top leagues, than ever before. It's fun, it's a positive.

Take MLS for example, one can be a critic of the level, only accepting the game's leagues at the highest levels etc...or one can accept its longevity compared to other leagues and be a part of the building process.
 The ages of some elite Americans are much younger today, teens, early 30's vs later 20's to early 30's and the level is high. Fitness, skill sets etc...one can appreciate Dempsey or McBride etc...or these guys now all for different reasons, in different ways at different times.

I'm personally not a fan of the snobby nature of some. I'm a big soccer person, (among some other sports) since I was a small child. It was very big in my world.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 10, 2020, 02:49:06 PM
Certainly there is a marketing/sales aspect to his coverage. But his level of play post re-start has been legit both statistically and eye test. And there is potential for a few to several American players to play more consistently, at higher levels in Europe's top leagues, than ever before. It's fun, it's a positive.

Take MLS for example, one can be a critic of the level, only accepting the game's leagues at the highest levels etc...or one can accept its longevity compared to other leagues and be a part of the building process.
 The ages of some elite Americans are much younger today, teens, early 30's vs later 20's to early 30's and the level is high. Fitness, skill sets etc...one can appreciate Dempsey or McBride etc...or these guys now all for different reasons, in different ways at different times.

I'm personally not a fan of the snobby nature of some. I'm a big soccer person, (among some other sports) since I was a small child. It was very big in my world.

I don’t disagree. I think it was likely more a reaction to relentless hype which hasn’t lead to positives for young Americans with pressure as of late.  But CP is clearly bucking that trend.

I think the snobbery towards the MLS is founded in some legit gripes. It tries too hard to pretend to be a Euro league (Real Salt Lake and Inter Miami are both cringey. Shocked we don’t have Dynamo Louisville yet) but refuse any of the tenants due to the league ownership demands.  Pro/Rel, the league determining who gets foreign stars, etc.. that’s where I think legitimate soccer fans who developed their fanship in European or South American leagues get annoyed.

But I agree the caliber of soccer has only continued to improve as the league has grown. It’s a legit feeder league that attracts from a lot of legit league and more and more “Star” players near their prime are coming as opposed to large paycheck seeking guys in their late 30s
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on July 10, 2020, 03:18:05 PM
I don’t disagree. I think it was likely more a reaction to relentless hype which hasn’t lead to positives for young Americans with pressure as of late.  But CP is clearly bucking that trend.

I think the snobbery towards the MLS is founded in some legit gripes. It tries too hard to pretend to be a Euro league (Real Salt Lake and Inter Miami are both cringey. Shocked we don’t have Dynamo Louisville yet) but refuse any of the tenants due to the league ownership demands.  Pro/Rel, the league determining who gets foreign stars, etc.. that’s where I think legitimate soccer fans who developed their fanship in European or South American leagues get annoyed.

But I agree the caliber of soccer has only continued to improve as the league has grown. It’s a legit feeder league that attracts from a lot of legit league and more and more “Star” players near their prime are coming as opposed to large paycheck seeking guys in their late 30s

I’m certainly not saying there has been play quality frustration with MLS over the years, or the U.S. Men’s National team, those are obvious. But the mentality is either dismissive of MLS as a league because it isn’t one of the top leagues in the world, or it’s the U.S. league, let’s accept what it is and where it’s at and keep working to improve it to make it a top league. It’s a long slow process.

I’m not a fan of copying everything soccer does elsewhere around the world. I greatly enjoy and appreciate various countries, leagues and the way they do things. But in the U.S. it’s ok to name a team after a city and have a nickname. You don’t need FC or United or whatever. And don’t get me started on uniforms. I can understand sponsor dollars etc...and even if it means jersey placement, but I prefer to see the name of the team across the front of a uniform in the U.S.  (or anywhere really). If you are good, the world will respect you. It won’t be because you have a European name or uniform.

Play quality will always be the top priority but the other things are all a part of growing a league or game too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 10, 2020, 03:27:45 PM
Copying team names is much older than MLS.

But anyway, I generally agree.  It's never going to be one of the world's elite leagues, but that's fine.  And it can serve as the home base for much of the national team, with its top players playing overseas. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 10, 2020, 03:56:42 PM
Copying team names is much older than MLS.

But anyway, I generally agree.  It's never going to be one of the world's elite leagues, but that's fine.  And it can serve as the home base for much of the national team, with its top players playing overseas.

Sure, but I think it just seems dopey when you have half the league like the Revolution or the Fire or the Sounders, with standard US naming conventions, then the rest with some attempt at being more like international.

I agree with you to a point on the second, I don’t want the MLS being the comfy home base for most of the squad, unless it can become a legit peer of LigaMX.  And right now MLS is on par with the second division in Mexico.

Looking through the top 15 national teams, the ones that don’t have top leagues, don’t have most of their squad playing domestically. Croatia, Poland, Switzerland, even Argentina who has a league far superior to MLS doesn’t play many guys in the domestic league. Outside of Ajax, PSV, and Feyenoord, I’d argue the Eredivise isn’t a bad combo for MLS, but the Dutch team doesn’t have many guys there.

MLS has a lot more money than most second tier leagues, so they can afford to pay USMNT guys to stay home, but I’m still pretty ardent in my feelings that it’s not a great place for young talent if the USMNT will ever take the next step. It’s better than sitting on the bench somewhere, but you can’t tell me Josh Sargent isn’t developing more playing for a bad Werder Bremen team in the Bundesliga than he would be scoring every other game in Seattle or LA against porous defense.

Stocking the team with a bunch of late 20s MLS lifers is Bruce Arena comfort nonsense. A Walker Zimmerman or Paul Arriola here or there is fine, but if the team is a good chunk of Zardes, Aaron Long, and Will Trapp types in the next few WC. We will be nothing more than flashes in the pan wasting the primes of Pulisic, McKinnie, Reyna, and others.

I agree MLS has come a long way and I do think it could potentially become LigaMX worthy, if they get out of their own way. Until then, it’s not preparing national team players for their legit World Cup/Copa competition like elsewhere.  I LOVE the buzz about a LigaMX/MLS merger. That would throw all my platform out the window and do wonders for US soccer, IMO
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 10, 2020, 04:06:29 PM
I don't disagree with you, but I also think this is the reality we are dealing with.  MLS is going to be where a lot of these guys play because it is home, and because they can pay.  A lot of the domestic leagues you mention don't have their national team playing there because they don't pay that well.  I mean, outside of the big three, how much money can someone make playing in the Netherlands?  Probably not as much as MLS.

This is why I would like to see where Jesse Marsch goes the next couple of years, because I think his MLS background with European success is how you are going to be able to blend the two together at the USMNT..
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on July 10, 2020, 04:59:41 PM
i would never say MLS couldn't be a top league long term or that it will never be a top league. I'm a bit more positive than that long term. It isn't now.

One thing to keep in mind about MLS finances is that it has become a Billionaire owner league. You need big bucks for increased expansion fees, expenses etc....the Billionaire Ingram family in Nashville, the Billionaire Taylor family in St. Louis and so on.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 10, 2020, 05:18:32 PM
I have always loved soccer but have put it on the backburner since there are US sports in better TV time slots.  It's been oddly nice dedicating my viewing time solely to soccer. Having a lot of fun watching Premier League/having it in the background while working, even with the title already decided.

Hoping Fulham earns a promotion spot through the playoff but I have my doubts with Scott Parker in charge.

My biggest problem with football is how quickly they can managers. Slav was so good for them for a number of years, has one bad season, and gets shown the door.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 10, 2020, 05:47:49 PM
I don't disagree with you, but I also think this is the reality we are dealing with.  MLS is going to be where a lot of these guys play because it is home, and because they can pay.  A lot of the domestic leagues you mention don't have their national team playing there because they don't pay that well.  I mean, outside of the big three, how much money can someone make playing in the Netherlands?  Probably not as much as MLS.

This is why I would like to see where Jesse Marsch goes the next couple of years, because I think his MLS background with European success is how you are going to be able to blend the two together at the USMNT..

Interestingly enough, its pretty on par, Eredivise average salary is about 300K Euros.  I think the non-DP average in the MLS is a bit over $300K.  Somewhere like the Argentine SuperLiga is in the same realm.

I honestly think there are two factors at play. 

1) those other countries are plenty self aware about the status of their league and players know full well that being "good" or excelling means going abroad as soon as possible.  There is a level of American exceptionalism that leads to some "why do you have to go to Europe when you can play here and be on ESPN".  If you don't have that personal dream or parents/mentors aiding it, like we've see with a lot of talented youth players making the move, you might not have the right advice.

2) Pure proximity for the Euro leagues.  You're a 1-2 hour flight or a train ride to the top European leagues from most countries in Europe.  Its much more of a daunting idea to go to Europe from the US.  And to be honest, when the US Soccer governance wasn't always the most supportive of that, it made it all a bit more difficult.

But totally agree about Jesse Marsch. Hes the coaching equivalent of Pulisic.  Salzburg was wildly dominant this year, even after losing Haaland and Minamino.  There is a good chance he gets a look in the Bundesliga or Ligue 1 after another successful season, as thats the progression successful RBS managers have had.  That would be super exciting.

One thing to keep in mind about MLS finances is that it has become a Billionaire owner league. You need big bucks for increased expansion fees, expenses etc....the Billionaire Ingram family in Nashville, the Billionaire Taylor family in St. Louis and so on.

That doesn't make it much different than other top leagues then.  However, I do think it does make it more difficult to progress as a league.  Monetary interest over league quality issues.  The US doesn't really know how to be a "developing" league in any sport.  But we shall see.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 11, 2020, 10:43:34 AM
It's never going to be one of the world's elite leagues, but that's fine.  And it can serve as the home base for much of the national team, with its top players playing overseas.

I actually think MLS has done more to help the rest of CONCACAF than it has the USMNT. It's provided a higher level of competition than players from Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, and others were able to get access to. The paychecks have also drawn quality Americans back home prematurely, lowering the level of competition they face (Bradley, Altidore, etc).

I love the idea of a stronger domestic league, but I think to date it's done more to help our competition and hurt our own domestic national team than anyone affiliated with MLS would like to admit.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 11, 2020, 12:10:12 PM
My biggest problem with football is how quickly they can managers. Slav was so good for them for a number of years, has one bad season, and gets shown the door.

I'd give anything to have Slav back. His  flaw was he tried to play the same attractive attacking style after promotion and did not have the back line quality to play it in the PL. He should have adjusted but I have no doubt he would have had Fulham right back up via auto-promotion and an improved squad for a second PL stint.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Big Papi on July 11, 2020, 12:38:05 PM
The MLS has made CONCACAF better and more competitive.

In order for the MLS to continue becoming a better league they need to do the following:
1. Change their schedule to conform with the rest of the world.  Single biggest reason holding this league back.  Same playing window, same transfer window, same national game window.
2. Continue to find and buy good young talent.  If the schedule is changed, now you open the ability to get good young talent loaned to our league.  Raises the talent level overall.  Develop players and sell them for a profit until the competitive level reaches a point where you no longer need to sell them. 
3. Figure out the best way to bring in Liga MX
4. Pour money into Academies to raise the talent and development level of young players in this country
5. Eliminate the pay for play concept or at least minimize its influence by sanctioning clubs and providing better coaching at the lower levels

Until changes are made and the talent level rises in the MLS, all of the U.S.'s most talented younger players should and do go oversees.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on July 11, 2020, 12:46:50 PM
I actually think MLS has done more to help the rest of CONCACAF than it has the USMNT. It's provided a higher level of competition than players from Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, and others were able to get access to. The paychecks have also drawn quality Americans back home prematurely, lowering the level of competition they face (Bradley, Altidore, etc).

I love the idea of a stronger domestic league, but I think to date it's done more to help our competition and hurt our own domestic national team than anyone affiliated with MLS would like to admit.

I think it's great that an improving MLS can help the region. That helps everyone. I've spent time in some of the countries you mentioned. I've seen first hand (8 of 9 provinces) for example,.the increased popularity of soccer in baseball popular Panama over the years. Improved play from all helps MLS, helps the U.S. team etc...

For me, MLS is an International Club Soccer League first foremost as opposed to a training ground for the U.S. National Team. It certainly can be and has been both. And that's good too. But it's not a means to end with the National Team, it's an entity to be enjoyed in an of itself.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 11, 2020, 05:18:24 PM
The MLS has made CONCACAF better and more competitive.

In order for the MLS to continue becoming a better league they need to do the following:
1. Change their schedule to conform with the rest of the world.  Single biggest reason holding this league back.  Same playing window, same transfer window, same national game window.
2. Continue to find and buy good young talent.  If the schedule is changed, now you open the ability to get good young talent loaned to our league.  Raises the talent level overall.  Develop players and sell them for a profit until the competitive level reaches a point where you no longer need to sell them. 
3. Figure out the best way to bring in Liga MX
4. Pour money into Academies to raise the talent and development level of young players in this country
5. Eliminate the pay for play concept or at least minimize its influence by sanctioning clubs and providing better coaching at the lower levels

Until changes are made and the talent level rises in the MLS, all of the U.S.'s most talented younger players should and do go oversees.

For most owners, this is a waste of money. Too many teams owned by people out to make a financial investment. Not out for a successful franchise.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 11, 2020, 06:10:30 PM
For most owners, this is a waste of money. Too many teams owned by people out to make a financial investment. Not out for a successful franchise.

Yep and the MLS has encouraged this IMO.

Unrelated to MLS, Chris Wilder is the most underrated manager in England, if not Europe. It might not be the sexiest soccer, but what he’s accomplished at Sheffield United is nothing short of remarkable. Looking like League One to Europa League qualification in the span of 4 seasons. And not a fluke invite from winning a cup like Wigan
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 11, 2020, 06:16:07 PM
For me, MLS is an International Club Soccer League first foremost as opposed to a training ground for the U.S. National Team. It certainly can be and has been both. And that's good too. But it's not a means to end with the National Team, it's an entity to be enjoyed in an of itself.

I've never been invested in any MLS team. I've long felt the league should be used exactly as Germany used the Bundesliga to rebuild their own national team. Make each MLS team an academy, develop homegrown players and reward or require teams to field Americans.

Ultimately, the sport's popularity domestically has always been driven by the national team. 1994, 2002, 2010, those moments drove interest. The better the national team, the more interest MLS will garner. It's in their own best interest to drive the USMNT.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on July 11, 2020, 08:06:48 PM
I've never been invested in any MLS team. I've long felt the league should be used exactly as Germany used the Bundesliga to rebuild their own national team. Make each MLS team an academy, develop homegrown players and reward or require teams to field Americans.

Ultimately, the sport's popularity domestically has always been driven by the national team. 1994, 2002, 2010, those moments drove interest. The better the national team, the more interest MLS will garner. It's in their own best interest to drive the USMNT.


Premiership ratings grew 74% in the U.S. over the past decade. Quality of play, quality of television production, quality of in game experience, story line interest, accessibility, etc...matter for U.S. fan interest.

MLS needs promotion/relegation, a more consistent television schedule, a bigger emphasis on regular season play, better advertising. For now the focus has been increased expansion fees and ad dollars. The league play and structure needs changing and improvement.

If you are not located in an MLS market, interest is much more casual.

 



Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 11, 2020, 11:03:02 PM
Pro-Rel is a non-starter, they refuse to join the international calendar, and the comparable lack of quality to what's available on TV hurts.

What is might need more than Pro-Rel is more leagues. Maybe 4 regional leagues that get together for a playoff at the end of the year. Though that again dilutes the talent, but as MLS will never compete with top leagues, more teams to create more regional support might be a better call. That said, my only real investment is USMNT development, so more teams and more academy programs is what I'd like to see.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on July 12, 2020, 08:40:53 AM
The Academy system has improved in the U.S. Youth coaches, college, high school, younger, want Fall/Spring schedule with fewer games. U.S. player development has long had an emphasis on games, tournaments, etc...as opposed to actual practice, player development. Many have wanted those changes for a long time. Then of course there is style of training philosophies which vary.

From playing, coaching, friends/family who have played and coached at high levels, etc...my interest is in all ages of development of the sport, not simply USMNT only.  And as mentioned if you either live in an MLS market or have a connection to particular players or staff, personal investment is greater.

Some of the improvements I would prefer are not quick fix implementations. I'm aware of that. And there certainly are frustrating aspects of professional league development in the U.S.



Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 12, 2020, 10:45:05 AM
First time in either a long time or ever that 4 different people managed a North London Derby in the same season. Arteta, Jose, Emery, and Poch. Pretty incredible.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 12, 2020, 01:35:34 PM
First time in either a long time or ever that 4 different people managed a North London Derby in the same season. Arteta, Jose, Emery, and Poch. Pretty incredible.

And North London is Lilywhite!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 12, 2020, 05:24:56 PM
Perfect example of why relegation battles can be more interesting than title chases. Villa and Bournemouth getting huge results today, and four out of the bottom 5 picked up all three points this weekend.  At this point in the season I'd much rather tune in for West Ham v Watford than Liverpool v Arsenal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 13, 2020, 04:02:34 PM
Leicester host Manchester United the last week of the year.  Looks like the winner of that will be in the Champions League and the loser may be out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 13, 2020, 04:14:35 PM
Perfect example of why relegation battles can be more interesting than title chases. Villa and Bournemouth getting huge results today, and four out of the bottom 5 picked up all three points this weekend.  At this point in the season I'd much rather tune in for West Ham v Watford than Liverpool v Arsenal.

my wife is a huge Leicester fan but I was glad to see Bournemouth win yesterday since it keeps the relegation battle interesting. I read an article a few months ago on how if they go down they're screwed financially and may never get back. They weren't supposed to last more than one year in the EPL and they're on year five.

The MLS has made CONCACAF better and more competitive.

In order for the MLS to continue becoming a better league they need to do the following:
1. Change their schedule to conform with the rest of the world.  Single biggest reason holding this league back.  Same playing window, same transfer window, same national game window.

Until changes are made and the talent level rises in the MLS, all of the U.S.'s most talented younger players should and do go oversees.

That's just not feasible in the US, both due to the market (competition with NFL, NBA, NHL, college sports, all things international leagues don't have to deal with) and weather. Chicago, Minnesota, New England, NY, DC, all would be brutally cold for games in January and February.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 13, 2020, 05:02:47 PM
Of course UEFA caved.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 13, 2020, 05:08:03 PM
Of course UEFA caved.

It wasn’t UEFA though.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 13, 2020, 05:33:24 PM
my wife is a huge Leicester fan but I was glad to see Bournemouth win yesterday since it keeps the relegation battle interesting. I read an article a few months ago on how if they go down they're screwed financially and may never get back. They weren't supposed to last more than one year in the EPL and they're on year five.

Eddie Howe is an incredible manager, and I respect his loyalty to the Cherries, but he needs to get out. He did it briefly to go to Burnley, but he’s proven he’s an EPL level manager and he doesn’t want to try and find a gig after they go down.

That's just not feasible in the US, both due to the market (competition with NFL, NBA, NHL, college sports, all things international leagues don't have to deal with) and weather. Chicago, Minnesota, New England, NY, DC, all would be brutally cold for games in January and February.

No offense but this is a a cop out. The current season already overlaps March Madness, and a good chunk of NHL and NBA season, as as a very regional league still with the franchises, competes directly with the hyper regionality of MLB, not to mention the culmination of their season still overlaps NFL and CFB.

As for weather, that would make sense if there wasn’t a perfectly template for a solution. The Russian Premier League used to play spring to Fall, but the Russian Federation and teams like Zenit, CSKA, and for awhile Anzhi Makhachkala wanted to be bigger players in Europe and attract better signings. So now they play Fall to Spring and take a break from mid December to mid March. The MLS could easily do the same and not even have to delay as long. Break right before Christmas and resume as they normally do in February
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Big Papi on July 13, 2020, 06:21:24 PM
my wife is a huge Leicester fan but I was glad to see Bournemouth win yesterday since it keeps the relegation battle interesting. I read an article a few months ago on how if they go down they're screwed financially and may never get back. They weren't supposed to last more than one year in the EPL and they're on year five.

That's just not feasible in the US, both due to the market (competition with NFL, NBA, NHL, college sports, all things international leagues don't have to deal with) and weather. Chicago, Minnesota, New England, NY, DC, all would be brutally cold for games in January and February.

Actually it is feasible.  Most European leagues have a winter break ranging from a few weeks to 8 weeks.  The Russian winter break is even longer but Austria, Denmark and Poland all have 6-8 weeks.  We the various climates in the U.S. we could have a winter break from mid December to the third week of February and schedule such that cities in warmer climates host games in December and February. 

Playoffs and finals can be played in warmer weather and there isn't an international break that screws with the MLS semi-finals and finals.  MLS is already competing with college football, NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB so that argument is here and there. 

If you want to grow the league and become a player in the soccer landscape, you have to conform with the international soccer schedule.  If you just want to have a league to have a league, keep the schedule the way it is.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 13, 2020, 06:28:26 PM
If you want to grow the league and become a player in the soccer landscape, you have to conform with the international soccer schedule.  If you just want to have a league to have a league, keep the schedule the way it is.

Which is what I fear. “Hey this way we can get a better TV deal with ESPN”.  Just figure out how to try and leap the NHL as the 4th most popular pro sport in the US from a dollars and marketing perspective. I don’t ever get a good vibe from the long term league development planning of the MLS. Time and time again it’s just head scratching
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 13, 2020, 07:05:23 PM
I think a summer league is better for the MLS. Less competition for butts and TV dollars. The NFL and college football would kill their fall ratings. European leagues are the big dogs in town so they don’t have to deal with that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 13, 2020, 07:45:24 PM
I think a summer league is better for the MLS. Less competition for butts and TV dollars. The NFL and college football would kill their fall ratings. European leagues are the big dogs in town so they don’t have to deal with that.

Yep.
And it's also a lot easier to get casual fans and group outings into the stadium in June, July and August than November, February and March. There aren't enough hardcore soccer fans - and definitely not MLS fans - to fill stadiums in most towns.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Big Papi on July 13, 2020, 10:21:51 PM
I think a summer league is better for the MLS. Less competition for butts and TV dollars. The NFL and college football would kill their fall ratings. European leagues are the big dogs in town so they don’t have to deal with that.

You do know that MLS currently ends its regular season and has playoffs during the heart of the college football and NFL season in the fall?  Keeping the schedule as is,is short sighted.  The MLS is a non-player in the transfer windows so getting good young players on loans is a no go.  It hurts the quality of the league but if all we care about is just having a league then everything should remain status quo.  Quality of the league and top players is going to bring butts in the seats and TV dollars.  Getting the quality of the league up so you can attract a younger Beckham, Ibra or Ronaldo is what the MLS should be setting their sights on.  Those players will get lots of butts in the seat.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 13, 2020, 11:06:26 PM
You do know that MLS currently ends its regular season and has playoffs during the heart of the college football and NFL season in the fall?  Keeping the schedule as is,is short sighted.  The MLS is a non-player in the transfer windows so getting good young players on loans is a no go.  It hurts the quality of the league but if all we care about is just having a league then everything should remain status quo.  Quality of the league and top players is going to bring butts in the seats and TV dollars.  Getting the quality of the league up so you can attract a younger Beckham, Ibra or Ronaldo is what the MLS should be setting their sights on.  Those players will get lots of butts in the seat.

The success of MLS depends way more on attracting and converting the casual fan than it does on attracting some expensive young player only the hardcore fan cares about. Those casual fans aren't going to sit through a regular season soccer game in November or February in Chicago, Toronto, Boston, Montreal, New York, Minnesota, etc. And that's not to mention you're going to lose most of the group sales to youth clubs and the like. Teams don't make nearly enough from TV to sacrifice the loss of ticket revenue you'd see, and your idea of just putting a third of the league's teams on the road for three months is a non-starter. You think the PA would go along with that? The owners of those teams?

The only thing that matters when it comes to the quality of players is money. Top players would flock to MLS if the pay were comparable to the top leagues. Many of them has said as much. But it's not, so they don't. And the only way it ever will (though it almost certainly won't) is if the MLS can grow its fan base. But that's not going to happen by a) making attending games less pleasant and b) making games harder to watch on television because you're going against college and pro football for more than half of your season.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 14, 2020, 07:33:09 AM
The MLS is not going to be a league that attracts the world's best players at their peak.  The money will never be there because attendance is going to be good, but not great, and the TV money is going to dwarf what is given to the NFL, college football, NBA, etc.  Soccer just isn't culturally significant enough, and I really doubt it will be in my lifetime. The only thing that changes that is if the next younger Beckham, Ibra or Ronaldo are Americans.

Soccer is a great way to waste away a weekend morning.  But when noon hits, TVs across the country flip over to the NFL.  That's not changing anytime soon.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 14, 2020, 09:50:06 AM
The success of MLS depends way more on attracting and converting the casual fan than it does on attracting some expensive young player only the hardcore fan cares about. Those casual fans aren't going to sit through a regular season soccer game in November or February in Chicago, Toronto, Boston, Montreal, New York, Minnesota, etc. And that's not to mention you're going to lose most of the group sales to youth clubs and the like. Teams don't make nearly enough from TV to sacrifice the loss of ticket revenue you'd see, and your idea of just putting a third of the league's teams on the road for three months is a non-starter. You think the PA would go along with that? The owners of those teams?

The only thing that matters when it comes to the quality of players is money. Top players would flock to MLS if the pay were comparable to the top leagues. Many of them has said as much. But it's not, so they don't. And the only way it ever will (though it almost certainly won't) is if the MLS can grow its fan base. But that's not going to happen by a) making attending games less pleasant and b) making games harder to watch on television because you're going against college and pro football for more than half of your season.

This is false. If MLS paid like the EPL or La Liga, but the level of soccer is what it currently is, they wouldn’t attract stars. If you’re a top player, you can get paid anywhere. That’s why before MLS you saw top players go to the Middle East or Asia when they lost a step. China is a bit different, cause they weren’t matching salaries for guys like Oscar, Hulk, and others, they were beating it. But otherwise, most top international talent wants to make the money, but also play against the best. They won’t come to MLS, even for the fat paychecks, until that’s the case...or until they are older like they do now.

Best case scenario is MLS combining with LigaMX. Second best is moving to the Russian Premier League style schedule with a break in the winter and trying to improve the league by aligning it with the rest of the elite soccer world.  Otherwise, it remains a side show that will improve incrementally, but largely just remain a money marking venture for a few and continue to be a drag on the USMNT. Such is life.

FWIW, saying soccer isn’t culturally significant and won’t be for the next 20-30 years is pretty asinine. The TV deals and global reach changed everything. It wasn’t enough when a bunch of kids just played in youth leagues, but now the best soccer in the world is in everyone’s standard TV package. If you’re 6-7, you can easily fall in love with any German or English team as easily as your local NFL team if you’re not physically going to games. The calculus changed monumentally in the last 5 years.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on July 14, 2020, 09:50:46 AM
We’ll see what happens long term with various things. Short term there aren’t going to be significant changes in the U.S. sports landscape.

High School football participation is down 27% in Ohio and 10% in Texas over the past decade. And participation has dropped significantly with White players Nationally, compared to Black and Hispanic players.

As for MLS, Billionaires are investing because right now, it’s a good investment. It’s a buy and hold and sell later for a profit. D.C. United’s owner had a net $90 million profit on a less than ten year investment. There are other examples. 

Soccer United Marketing (SUM) had $350 million in revenue last year and has a valuation of $2 billion (Forbes). It has a broad range of not just MLS events but U.S. team events, Mexico, etc...as well as real estate development money in the neighborhoods surrounding the new stadiums. Owners can and do dip into SUM money to cover some team costs.

There has been some talk about increased expansion fee money grabs, but the fees, $200 million to $300 million are still small by comparison to other U.S. sports leagues. Seattle is paying $650 million expansion fee for its NHL. team. Vegas paid $500 million. In today’s money NBA Charlotte’s $300 million fee in 2004 is $406 million. Houston Texas NFL expansion fee was $700 million in 2002 or $1 billion in today’s money.

Adidas deal is $90 million per year. TV deal is $720 million and will go up in two years. Attendance average is over 21k or only behind NFL and MLB, albeit with fewer games than other leagues. Soccer specific stadiums helps attract fans and corporate. Average team worth is $240 million with several in the $300’s.

So people can see why wealthy people are investing. They are also controlling some costs by not really having a true free agency. But that is something that needs to happen to improve the league.

In 1986, the top league in England had a 2 year $6.3 million tv deal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 14, 2020, 10:09:43 AM
This is false. If MLS paid like the EPL or La Liga, but the level of soccer is what it currently is, they wouldn’t attract stars. If you’re a top player, you can get paid anywhere. That’s why before MLS you saw top players go to the Middle East or Asia when they lost a step. China is a bit different, cause they weren’t matching salaries for guys like Oscar, Hulk, and others, they were beating it. But otherwise, most top international talent wants to make the money, but also play against the best. They won’t come to MLS, even for the fat paychecks, until that’s the case...or until they are older like they do now.

Best case scenario is MLS combining with LigaMX. Second best is moving to the Russian Premier League style schedule with a break in the winter and trying to improve the league by aligning it with the rest of the elite soccer world.  Otherwise, it remains a side show that will improve incrementally, but largely just remain a money marking venture for a few and continue to be a drag on the USMNT. Such is life.

FWIW, saying soccer isn’t culturally significant and won’t be for the next 20-30 years is pretty asinine. The TV deals and global reach changed everything. It wasn’t enough when a bunch of kids just played in youth leagues, but now the best soccer in the world is in everyone’s standard TV package. If you’re 6-7, you can easily fall in love with any German or English team as easily as your local NFL team if you’re not physically going to games. The calculus changed monumentally in the last 5 years.


Wags, you're a hard core soccer guy, and that's cool.  But I also think you don't have perspective here. The American public at large hardly follows MLS it and barely watches it on television.  Last year, an average MLS game on television drew less than 500,000 viewers.  Reruns of your basic cop shows have higher viewership.

Where MLS does well is in person attendance, and you would be killing that with moving it to a fall - spring league.  Which has hardly helped Russia at all.  They've slipped in UEFA league rankings and haven't put a team in the knockout rounds of the UCL since 2016.

MLS is going to be what it is.  A decent league, but not one that's going to compete with the big leagues in Europe.  Soccer just doesn't yet have the relevance here to make that happen....and I will stand by that statement completely. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 14, 2020, 10:11:29 AM
We’ll see what happens long term with various things. Short term there aren’t going to be significant changes in the U.S. sports landscape.

High School football participation is down 27% in Ohio and 10% in Texas over the past decade. And participation has dropped significantly with White players Nationally, compared to Black and Hispanic players.



I never played football.  My kids never played it either.  But we all watch it.  The idea that you have to participate in a sport to be interested in watching that sport on television isn't really accurate.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on July 14, 2020, 10:36:35 AM

I never played football.  My kids never played it either.  But we all watch it.  The idea that you have to participate in a sport to be interested in watching that sport on television isn't really accurate.

I didn't say that someone has to play American Football to watch it. (I also don't believe head coaches need to play a sport to coach it, in any sport, but that's another topic) .....However, there is some long term significance if some of the American Football hotbeds are seeing declining participation numbers over the past decade. As I said in my post, short term there aren't going to be many signficant changes with the NFL.

Where we disagree is saying MLS definitely can't be more or better long term than what it is now. I wouldn't agree with that statement.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 14, 2020, 10:57:03 AM
This is false. If MLS paid like the EPL or La Liga, but the level of soccer is what it currently is, they wouldn’t attract stars. If you’re a top player, you can get paid anywhere. That’s why before MLS you saw top players go to the Middle East or Asia when they lost a step. China is a bit different, cause they weren’t matching salaries for guys like Oscar, Hulk, and others, they were beating it. But otherwise, most top international talent wants to make the money, but also play against the best. They won’t come to MLS, even for the fat paychecks, until that’s the case...or until they are older like they do now.

No. Stars will follow the money. Thinking that players would reject more money from the MLS because the level of competition is lower flies in the face of sports history (see: AFL, USFL, WHA, etc.). Star players have always followed the money, not the other players. Joe Namath didn't go to the AFL because it was the better league.
And certainly not the schedule, not the alignment of transfer windows and not when breaks occur. If the MLS could consistently offer comparable money to the other leagues across the board - not just to a handful of DPs - it would get comparable talent. You really think, all things being equal, many young star athletes would rather live in Dortmund or Liverpool or Naples than LA, New York, Miami or Chicago?
The problem is that league revenues don't allow them to come close to offering equal compensation across the board. Heck, players in the Championship on average earn twice as much as those here. MLS can give a few guys top dollar, but not nearly enough. And so for the few big-money signings clubs can make, they'd rather sign a huge name that may be  over the hill than a lesser-known player in his prime, because the former is going to sell a lot more tickets than the latter.

Quote
Best case scenario is MLS combining with LigaMX.
Yuck. Sick. Gross.
MLS already is too big and getting too bigger. Adding 16 more teams from Mexico only makes things worse. It's impossible to build fan interest/recognition of clubs and players across the league when you've got nearly 50 clubs to keep track of.

Quote
FWIW, saying soccer isn’t culturally significant and won’t be for the next 20-30 years is pretty asinine.

Nobody said this.
That said, I'm old enough to remember soccer being hailed as the sport of the future in the U.S. back in the 1970s.
The only thing asinine here is a suggestion that some team in the Premiere League or Bundesliga would draw a similar following to the local NFL team.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 14, 2020, 11:02:26 AM
My understanding is that the merger with Liga MX would bring in a pro/rel concept between two leagues. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 14, 2020, 11:06:55 AM
FWIW there are reports that 34 year old David Silva, 33 year old Edinson Cavani, and 35 year old Thiago Silva have all turned down what I can only assume were massive contract offers from David Beckam's Inter Miami.  This does not support the narrative that stars will always follow the money. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 14, 2020, 11:17:27 AM
My understanding is that the merger with Liga MX would bring in a pro/rel concept between two leagues.

If you're a club owner who just spent $200 million to get an MLS franchise, why would you agree to this?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 14, 2020, 11:23:13 AM
FWIW there are reports that 34 year old David Silva, 33 year old Edinson Cavani, and 35 year old Thiago Silva have all turned down what I can only assume were massive contract offers from David Beckam's Inter Miami.  This does not support the narrative that stars will always follow the money.

As of 6/12, Silva is considering a move to Miami:
https://www.football-espana.net/2020/06/12/man-citys-david-silva-considering-mls-move

But you're right, it's hyperbole to say every player will always go to the highest bidder every time.
So let's just say the great majority of players will go to the highest bidder on the great majority of occasions.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 14, 2020, 11:38:10 AM
If you're a club owner who just spent $200 million to get an MLS franchise, why would you agree to this?

Pro/Rel works in places like England where the sports hierarchy goes top soccer league (EPL), second soccer league (Championship), third soccer league (League One), and so on. But in the US there is so much competition for the sporting dollar that not being in MLS is a death knell for a franchise. Even in the best MLS markets like Portland, Seattle, and SLC, the USL sides average under 3K a game (under 1K in KC). Only three USL teams averaged above 10K in attendance last season, all in markets with no other professional teams they compete with during the season, New Mexico (in their inaugural season), Indy, Sacramento.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 14, 2020, 11:56:15 AM
No. Stars will follow the money. Thinking that players would reject more money from the MLS because the level of competition is lower flies in the face of sports history (see: AFL, USFL, WHA, etc.). Star players have always followed the money, not the other players. Joe Namath didn't go to the AFL because it was the better league.
And certainly not the schedule, not the alignment of transfer windows and not when breaks occur. If the MLS could consistently offer comparable money to the other leagues across the board - not just to a handful of DPs - it would get comparable talent. You really think, all things being equal, many young star athletes would rather live in Dortmund or Liverpool or Naples than LA, New York, Miami or Chicago?

The MLS has 25 players that make more than $2MM a season, which is higher than the average salary for every Bundesliga team not named BVB, Bayern, Leverkusen, Leipzig, or Wolfsburg, aka the Champions League contending teams.  Higher than the average salary for every team in Ligue 1 outside of PSG, Monaco, Lyon, and Marseille. Same for Spain outside of the top 4-5 as well.

The MLS average is not there, no, but the top salaries, which would be needed to snatch players from top 4 Euro leagues (even if they are not Liverpool or BVB caliber) are sufficient if it was just about the money. and MLS has been very clear that they will fund whatever if the player will come.  But the quality of play is nowhere near enough.  You move to MLS in your prime from a European league and you can pretty much kiss your chances of National Team selection goodbye.

Guys that are DPs and making 2.5/3/4MM in MLS would never sniff those salaries in Europe cause they’d not get slotted on teams that would pay them that. Hell Josef Martinez has been unstoppable in MLS, and he was rumored for a Newcastle transfer...he would likely have had to take a pay cut unless they were ready to make him their second highest paid player.

Nobody said this.
That said, I'm old enough to remember soccer being hailed as the sport of the future in the U.S. back in the 1970s.
The only thing asinine here is a suggestion that some team in the Premiere League or Bundesliga would draw a similar following to the local NFL team.

Fluffy literally said it wouldn’t be culturally significant here in his life time.

And I never said it would draw the same following. But the idea that MLS has to bend to and cater to all those other leagues to gain any fans is wrong, that’s all I’m saying. A kid has easy and ready access to all the European soccer they want. Which is a gateway to soccer that fuels an interest in domestic leagues as well. 

The youth boom of the 70s and 80s and 90s largely failed cause it dead ended. Hell, when I first started loving Liverpool, you were lucky if you caught highlights or matches on tape delay.  Now there are hundreds of EPL matches a season, not to mention Serie A and Bundesliga on Fox and ESPN.  Suddenly the kids playing soccer have yet another exposure.

I’m not saying it’s taking over the NFL or NBA but acting like soccer is forever doomed to be a sideshow niche sport in the US cause people were wrong in their projections 40 years ago is incredibly short sighted and ignoring the changing landscape.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 14, 2020, 12:07:53 PM
The MLS has 25 players that make more than $2MM a season, which higher than the average salary for every Bundesliga team not named BVB, Bayern, Leverkusen, Leipzig, or Wolfsburg, aka the Champions League contending teams.  Higher than the average salary for every team in Ligue 1 outside of PSG, Monaco, Lyon, and Marseille. Same for Spain outside of the top 4-5 as well.

The MLS average is not there, no, but the top salaries, which would be needed to snatch players from top 4 Euro leagues (even if they are not Liverpool or BVB caliber) are sufficient if it was just about the money. and MLS has been very clear that they will fund whatever if the player will come.  But the quality of play is nowhere near enough.  You move to MLS in your prime from a European league and you can pretty much kiss your chances of National Team selection goodbye.

Guys that are DPs and making 2.5/3/4MM in MLS would never sniff those salaries in Europe cause they’d not get slotted on teams that would pay them that. Hell Josef Martinez has been unstoppable in MLS, and he was rumored for a Newcastle transfer...he would likely have had to take a pay cut unless they were ready to make him their second highest paid player.o

Fluffy literally said it wouldn’t be culturally significant here in his life time.



I said not culturally significant enough to overcome the NFL, college football and the NBA.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 14, 2020, 12:30:30 PM
The MLS has 25 players that make more than $2MM a season, which is higher than the average salary for every Bundesliga team not named BVB, Bayern, Leverkusen, Leipzig, or Wolfsburg, aka the Champions League contending teams.  Higher than the average salary for every team in Ligue 1 outside of PSG, Monaco, Lyon, and Marseille. Same for Spain outside of the top 4-5 as well. The MLS average is not there, no, but the top salaries, which would be needed to snatch players from top 4 Euro leagues (even if they are not Liverpool or BVB caliber) are sufficient if it was just about the money.

The average salary in La Liga is $2.95 million. In the Bundeliga it's $1.98 million. You noting that 25 players in the 26-team MLS make more than $2 million - i.e. less than one player per team - hardly makes the case that MLS top salaries "are sufficient." It''s evidence of the opposite.

Quote
Guys that are DPs and making 2.5/3/4MM in MLS would never sniff those salaries in Europe cause they’d not get slotted on teams that would pay them that. Hell Josef Martinez has been unstoppable in MLS, and he was rumored for a Newcastle transfer...he would likely have had to take a pay cut unless they were ready to make him their second highest paid player.
Can't speak to Martinez in particular, but as a rule it seems false. Let's look at some recent notable MLS to Europe transfers:
Miguel Almiron's base salary at Newcastle is between 1.5 million and 1.8 million pounds with bonuses. So $1.8 to $2.2 million. He was earning $1.9 million in Atlanta.
Alphonso Davies is getting $5.5 million a year at Bayern Munich. His salary in Vancouver was $72,500.
Tyler Adams is getting $1 million a year in Leipzig. His salary in New York was $103,000.
Chris Richards is getting $1.5-$2 million from Bayern. He was getting $123,000 in Dallas.
Zak Steffen is getting paid more than $1 million by Man City. He was earning $145,000 in Columbus.

Quote
I’m not saying it’s taking over the NFL or NBA but acting like soccer is forever doomed to be a sideshow niche sport in the US cause people were wrong in their projections 40 years ago is incredibly short sighted and ignoring the changing landscape.

I'm not saying this. I'm saying the key to MLS improving and expanding its fanbase lies in raising revenues by putting fans in the stadiums and getting more and better television exposure. Syncing the league's calendar to that of Europe doesn't do that. In fact, it likely harms those efforts. There are benefits to switching, but they don't outweigh its downside.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 14, 2020, 01:07:08 PM
The average salary in La Liga is $2.95 million. In the Bundeliga it's $1.98 million. You noting that 25 players in the 26-team MLS make more than $2 million - i.e. less than one player per team - hardly makes the case that MLS top salaries "are sufficient." It''s evidence of the opposite.

Thats a misrepresentation.  Cause as I highlighted, they are wildly skewed by Barca and Real and Atletico who have average salaries of something like $12MM, 11MM,and 8MM respectively.

Same as in the Bundesliga with teams like Bayern and BVB.

MLS wont be competing for those players.  They will be looking to bid for guys in their prime that play on mid table teams.  So those top salaries are relevant.  If its really "just about the money", they can come play for Inter Miami or LA FC and be the star for $3MM a season, which is more than they'd make in La Liga or the Bundesliga.  But they don't.  We haven't seen anyone do that.  European DPs over the years are coming from places like the English Championship, or Danish Superliga, or the Polish league.  The league can't attract middle level top 4 level players for their "stars" much less fill a team.

Can't speak to Martinez in particular, but as a rule it seems false. Let's look at some recent notable MLS to Europe transfers:
Miguel Almiron's base salary at Newcastle is between 1.5 million and 1.8 million pounds with bonuses. So $1.8 to $2.2 million. He was earning $1.9 million in Atlanta.
Alphonso Davies is getting $5.5 million a year at Bayern Munich. His salary in Vancouver was $72,500.
Tyler Adams is getting $1 million a year in Leipzig. His salary in New York was $103,000.
Chris Richards is getting $1.5-$2 million from Bayern. He was getting $123,000 in Dallas.
Zak Steffen is getting paid more than $1 million by Man City. He was earning $145,000 in Columbus.

Apples to oranges.  You're talking homegrown guys who came out of academies in the MLS as low paid players.  Almiron came relatively unproven from the Argentine league.

I'm talking the high paid players.  Josef Martinez was largely an bust in Italy and came in as a highly paid DP.  Where in Europe is paying Zardes $2MM+?  No team in La Liga or England is paying Alejandro Pozuelo $3.5MM+.  Carlos Gil rarely saw the pitch for a bottom tier La Liga club and he's a DP on $2.5MM+

Those are the guys I'm speaking of.  They are in the MLS making big money cause they couldn't get anywhere near it anywhere else.  $3.5MM a year should be able to pull someone from Sevilla or Gladbach or West Ham if playing in the US/MLS was so desirable and it was really just about the money.

Guys like Steffan and Adams and Davis got their start in academies but were right to get out as fast as they could for bigger things.  I can't recall a highly paid DP from the MLS transferring to a top league.  If they leave, its like Giavinco and they go to another big paycheck, low competition league.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 14, 2020, 01:17:45 PM
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/news/bryang-kayo-kobe-hernandez-foster-join-wolfsburg-usa-usmnt-12031

Let's keep the pipeline going.  This is why Pulisic and Reyna's success goes beyond what they do on they field, if they're inspiring others to go abroad and actually get better. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 14, 2020, 01:50:56 PM


MLS wont be competing for those players.  They will be looking to bid for guys in their prime that play on mid table teams.  So those top salaries are relevant.  If its really "just about the money", they can come play for Inter Miami or LA FC and be the star for $3MM a season, which is more than they'd make in La Liga or the Bundesliga.  But they don't.  We haven't seen anyone do that.  European DPs over the years are coming from places like the English Championship, or Danish Superliga, or the Polish league.  The league can't attract middle level top 4 level players for their "stars" much less fill a team.

Apples to oranges.  You're talking homegrown guys who came out of academies in the MLS as low paid players.  Almiron came relatively unproven from the Argentine league.



Where MLS is seeing success is taking players from Central and South American leagues and national teams and now LigaMX. More stable societies, no worry about not being paid, no violence off the field. Diego Valeri (Argentina) of Portland rebuffed offers for MLS until he and his family were held up at gunpoint and robbed. He then called his agent and said "get me to MLS" and he's been a stud. Raul Ruidiaz (Peru) has been game changer for Seattle, as has been Nicolás Lodeiro (Uruguay). Others are Pity Martinez (Argentina), Sebastian Blanco (Argentina) the Charra Brothers (Columbia), Miguel Almiron (Paraguay, and now with Newcastle).    Giancarlo González (Costa Rica), the Dos Santos Brothers (Mexico) and Carlos Vela (Mexico).

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 14, 2020, 02:22:45 PM
Thats a misrepresentation.  Cause as I highlighted, they are wildly skewed by Barca and Real and Atletico who have average salaries of something like $12MM, 11MM,and 8MM respectively.

Same as in the Bundesliga with teams like Bayern and BVB.

Oh, and those 25 MLS players who earn more than $2 million don't wildly skew things here?
There are also wide disparities in MLS team payrolls. Toronto's salary payout for this year is more than $24 million. The LA Galaxy's is above $20 million. Vancouver, Houston and Philly all have payroll under $9 million. Why is that any different?

But this is all besides the point. The fact remains the MLS revenues  - and therefore salaries - are not "sufficient" to compete for top players, despite what you say. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Forget La Liga and the Bundesliga - MLS salaries don't even compete with the Championship or LigaMX.

Quote
Apples to oranges.  You're talking homegrown guys who came out of academies in the MLS as low paid players.  Almiron came relatively unproven from the Argentine league.

Excuse me for mixing sports metaphors, but you're shifting goalposts.


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 14, 2020, 04:22:59 PM
Oh, and those 25 MLS players who earn more than $2 million don't wildly skew things here?
There are also wide disparities in MLS team payrolls. Toronto's salary payout for this year is more than $24 million. The LA Galaxy's is above $20 million. Vancouver, Houston and Philly all have payroll under $9 million. Why is that any different?


But this is all besides the point. The fact remains the MLS revenues  - and therefore salaries - are not "sufficient" to compete for top players, despite what you say. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Forget La Liga and the Bundesliga - MLS salaries don't even compete with the Championship or LigaMX.

Cause this is the league the MLS wants. “Stars” that are paid exorbitant amounts compared to the vast majority of MLS regulars. Yet again, why are you ignoring that countless guys contribute to EPL/La Liga/Bundesliga teams at below average wages. Let’s say $1MM. And they are superior players, earlier in their careers, than DPs getting $2.5MM deals in MLS. Why don’t they follow they money? They don’t care what the average pay is in the league?  MLS doesn’t have the cash to compete salary wise with top leagues, of course not, but they happily over pay for DPs.

Unless you mean “stars” only to mean guys like Rooney, Gerrard, Zlatan. Guys who are global names and not players who would be “stars” in the MLS based on relative ability and command the highest paychecks. Then we are talking different parallel paths. MLS overpaying for aging stars or castoffs from top leagues is dumb and financially counterintuitive to building better more complete rosters, but I’ve given up on that changing.

Excuse me for mixing sports metaphors, but you're shifting goalposts.

With all due respect, I never did. I talked about DPs like Josef Martinez from the start, as it relates to their financial options elsewhere and career paths if not MLS. You brought up the young talent that leveled up. If Weston McKinnie or Josh Sargent comes back to MLS, makes $3MM a year as a DP, then vaults back to a European club on a large wage packet. That’s a different story. MLS right now is a dead end for the players that come in as the high paid DPs at an advanced stage of their career. It’s an awesome opportunity for them that they won’t get many other places and it’s usually why they stay until they retire or go back to their home country and/or lower league for a last hurrah
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 14, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
Cause this is the league the MLS wants. “Stars” that are paid exorbitant amounts compared to the vast majority of MLS regulars. Yet again, why are you ignoring that countless guys contribute to EPL/La Liga/Bundesliga teams at below average wages. Let’s say $1MM. And they are superior players, earlier in their careers, than DPs getting $2.5MM deals in MLS. Why don’t they follow they money? They don’t care what the average pay is in the league?  MLS doesn’t have the cash to compete salary wise with top leagues, of course not, but they happily over pay for DPs.

Unless you mean “stars” only to mean guys like Rooney, Gerrard, Zlatan. Guys who are global names and not players who would be “stars” in the MLS based on relative ability and command the highest paychecks. Then we are talking different parallel paths. MLS overpaying for aging stars or castoffs from top leagues is dumb and financially counterintuitive to building better more complete rosters, but I’ve given up on that changing.

With all due respect, I never did. I talked about DPs like Josef Martinez from the start, as it relates to their financial options elsewhere and career paths if not MLS. You brought up the young talent that leveled up. If Weston McKinnie or Josh Sargent comes back to MLS, makes $3MM a year as a DP, then vaults back to a European club on a large wage packet. That’s a different story. MLS right now is a dead end for the players that come in as the high paid DPs at an advanced stage of their career. It’s an awesome opportunity for them that they won’t get many other places and it’s usually why they stay until they retire or go back to their home country and/or lower league for a last hurrah

Wags ... it's not a matter of those $1 million players turning down MLS money, it's that MLS doesn't want those players. An MLS club would rather use their rare seven-figure contracts on bigger names, even if over the hill, than a no-name player in his prime.
And no, it's not dumb. The league's survival depends on getting casual fans into the stadiums or watching on TV. An effective no-name player from Fulham or Augsburg isn't going to do that. Zlatan and Wayne Rooney will (and attendance and TV ratings support this).
Fluffy was right. As a hardcore soccer fan, you're only seeing this from the perspective of a hardcore soccer fan. While I respect that, you're failing to see things through the eyes of the kind of fan the MLS needs to grow.

At this point we're far off the subjects, which was the folly of switching to the Euro calendar, so I'm going to drop it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 14, 2020, 06:16:24 PM
Wags ... it's not a matter of those $1 million players turning down MLS money, it's that MLS doesn't want those players. An MLS club would rather use their rare seven-figure contracts on bigger names, even if over the hill, than a no-name player in his prime.
And no, it's not dumb. The league's survival depends on getting casual fans into the stadiums or watching on TV. An effective no-name player from Fulham or Augsburg isn't going to do that. Zlatan and Wayne Rooney will (and attendance and TV ratings support this).
Fluffy was right. As a hardcore soccer fan, you're only seeing this from the perspective of a hardcore soccer fan. While I respect that, you're failing to see things through the eyes of the kind of fan the MLS needs to grow.

At this point we're far off the subjects, which was the folly of switching to the Euro calendar, so I'm going to drop it.

Fair enough. My last comment...MLS isn’t even committed to what you say.  Since 2018, there have been 50+ DPs signed. 5 match your description. Rooney, Zlatan, Vela, Chicharito, and ill even give you Alan Pulido to cater to that Mexican-American demo. They aren’t signing “no name” Europeans, they are signing no names from LatAm leagues and double/tripling their salaries.

You’re fine with the MLS being what it is. And that’s cool. But it’s to the detriment to USMNT and any claims about the league progressing in the right way on a global scale and being anything more than fairly well funded retirement league/developmental league for non-US OR Mexican members of CONCACAF can be tabled.

Looking at soccer, whether it be the MLS or the USMNT from an “American sports” perspective has got us here. And it is what it is, c’est la vie. At least be honest about it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 14, 2020, 06:22:26 PM
You’re fine with the MLS being what it is.

This is totally false. We just have different ideas about how to grow the league.
My idea involves giving the league more exposure and making it easier for them to watch and attend games. Your idea involves less exposure and makes it harder for fans to attend games.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 18, 2020, 11:04:37 AM
Well, Leeds officially win the Championship. Good for them. Bielsa has done an excellent job there.

Over the past 24 hours, WBA and Brentford losses to the bottom half of the table miraculously give Fulham a chance of auto-promotion on the final day. It's a very slim chance but I'll take it!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 18, 2020, 11:12:40 AM
Well, Leeds officially win the Championship. Good for them. Bielsa has done an excellent job there.

Over the past 24 hours, WBA and Brentford losses to the bottom half of the table miraculously give Fulham a chance of auto-promotion on the final day. It's a very slim chance but I'll take it!

Brentford desperately needs a result, leads the Championship in goals scored, plays a bad Stoke club who leaks goals and gives up more goals than everyone except the bottom 3-4 clubs...and they get blanked. And look completely lifeless. That’s how you resign yourself to a perpetual 2nd and 3rd tier existence
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 18, 2020, 11:18:05 AM
Brentford needed four points in their last two against bottom dwellers. Now they need help or it’s the playoffs.

Would be nice for them to go up with a new stadium next year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 18, 2020, 11:46:49 AM
TBF Brentford played out of their mind since before the pause. 10 straight wins in the championship is extremely impressive. Not a side I would want to face in a playoff.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 22, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
TBF Brentford played out of their mind since before the pause. 10 straight wins in the championship is extremely impressive. Not a side I would want to face in a playoff.

Although I do bet that back to back losses to close the season when it turns out only 2 points were needed to go up is less than ideal, especially with the second coming against Barnsley.  Crazy that Wigan are going down with a positive goal differential, while Luton finished 3 points clear despite being -28
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 22, 2020, 07:54:50 PM
Although I do bet that back to back losses to close the season when it turns out only 2 points were needed to go up is less than ideal, especially with the second coming against Barnsley.  Crazy that Wigan are going down with a positive goal differential, while Luton finished 3 points clear despite being -28

You may be aware but Wigan had a 12 point deduction. That's the only reason they are going down. Conflicting reports on whether or not it could be overturned.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 22, 2020, 08:56:05 PM
You may be aware but Wigan had a 12 point deduction. That's the only reason they are going down. Conflicting reports on whether or not it could be overturned.

Musta missed that.  Thanks.  The margins are still razor thin the Championship, part of why it is so much fun to watch.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 23, 2020, 11:20:44 AM
5th place Nottingham Forest had a 3 point advantage and a 5 goal differential advantage over 7th place Swansea entering the final day.

Facing a Stoke City team with nothing to play for, Forest lost 4-1. Swansea won their game 4-1 and jumped into 6th place and a playoff spot while Forest was eliminated. Crazy final day
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 23, 2020, 11:26:51 AM
5th place Nottingham Forest had a 3 point advantage and a 5 goal differential advantage over 7th place Swansea entering the final day.

Facing a Stoke City team with nothing to play for, Forest lost 4-1. Swansea won their game 4-1 and jumped into 6th place and a playoff spot while Forest was eliminated. Crazy final day


Forest gave up three goals in final 20 minutes.  The last one was a 90+8 own goal.  Swansea scored a 90+1 goal too.  So the entire season was decided in the span of just a few minutes.

On the other end of the table, Charlton wasn't in the relegation zone all season and Luton had been there since September.  Charton was relegated and Luton survived.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 23, 2020, 12:00:55 PM
5th place Nottingham Forest had a 3 point advantage and a 5 goal differential advantage over 7th place Swansea entering the final day.

Facing a Stoke City team with nothing to play for, Forest lost 4-1. Swansea won their game 4-1 and jumped into 6th place and a playoff spot while Forest was eliminated. Crazy final day

In their last 2 games, a mediocre Stoke team with no motivation and recently coming off having their doors blown of 5-0 by Leeds...proceed to outscore a pair of top 5 clubs 5-1 combined, and knock Brentford out of auto promotion and Forest out of the playoff spot. Even more absurd is that Forest was at home.  Crazy scenes
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on July 27, 2020, 10:44:38 PM
Patience, positioning, concentration, pace, technique:

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1287940414482386945?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 28, 2020, 12:24:49 AM
Onomah and Kebano scored great goals for Fulham in the first leg @ Cardiff. One more decent performance and we're onto Wembley.

Brentford lost their first leg @ Swansea.

The playoffs are a pain. I'll be wound tightly for the next week.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 28, 2020, 11:15:58 AM
https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Award_6785___internet__.pdf

Full 93 page CAS report following the decision to overturn the 2 year Champions League ban for Manchester City.  Excerpt from the conclusion:

Quote
The alleged breaches related to the financial statements for the years ended May 2012 and May 2013 are time-barred, but the alleged breaches related to the financial statement for the year ended May 2014 are not.

The charges with respect to equity funding being disguised as sponsorship contributions from Etisalat are time-barred.

The Panel is not comfortably satisfied that MCFC disguised equity funding from HHSM and/or ADUG as sponsorship contributions from Etihad.

Not a lawyer, and if one wants to take the time to read the full report and provide a more detailed summary feel free, but it seems to me that all violations are either outside the statute of limitations, or didn't have enough evidence to prove guilt.

Edit: MCFC= Manchester City Football Club
HHSM= His Highness Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed Al Nahyan
ADUG= Abu Dhabi United Group Investment & Development
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 28, 2020, 12:02:33 PM
Onomah and Kebano scored great goals for Fulham in the first leg @ Cardiff. One more decent performance and we're onto Wembley.

Brentford lost their first leg @ Swansea.

The playoffs are a pain. I'll be wound tightly for the next week.

Fulham winning promotion is the best case scenario for me. Craven Cottage is great, and I think they just add a fun element to the EPL. No love for Cardiff cause Vincent Tan is an idiot and they were cannon fodder last time they came up, and I wouldn’t expect much to change from a far from dominant Championship squad. And Brentford deserves nothing given how they melted to end the season.

Fulham, West Brom with Bilic, and the long overdue return of Leeds would be a great promo trio.

Speaking of EPL movement, Eddie Howe has to move on now, yea? I’m all for loyalty, but you did everything you could at Bournemouth, and brilliantly. Don’t stubbornly sink with the ship
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 28, 2020, 12:17:34 PM
Fulham winning promotion is the best case scenario for me. Craven Cottage is great, and I think they just add a fun element to the EPL. No love for Cardiff cause Vincent Tan is an idiot and they were cannon fodder last time they came up, and I wouldn’t expect much to change from a far from dominant Championship squad. And Brentford deserves nothing given how they melted to end the season.

Fulham, West Brom with Bilic, and the long overdue return of Leeds would be a great promo trio.

Speaking of EPL movement, Eddie Howe has to move on now, yea? I’m all for loyalty, but you did everything you could at Bournemouth, and brilliantly. Don’t stubbornly sink with the ship


Cardiff stunk the last two times they were up. 

And I would rather see Brentford.  It's been a long time since they've been up and have a nice new stadium to show off.  And they'll deserve it if they win the playoffs like any other team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 28, 2020, 11:05:41 PM
Fulham winning promotion is the best case scenario for me. Craven Cottage is great, and I think they just add a fun element to the EPL. No love for Cardiff cause Vincent Tan is an idiot and they were cannon fodder last time they came up, and I wouldn’t expect much to change from a far from dominant Championship squad. And Brentford deserves nothing given how they melted to end the season.

Fulham, West Brom with Bilic, and the long overdue return of Leeds would be a great promo trio.

Speaking of EPL movement, Eddie Howe has to move on now, yea? I’m all for loyalty, but you did everything you could at Bournemouth, and brilliantly. Don’t stubbornly sink with the ship

Haven't had the chance to get to Craven Cottage yet. Planned to go next year but who knows what the travel situation will look like at that time.

Hope Swansea finishes off Brentford tomorrow. They are in good form but just are not near the quality of Brentford. I think Brentford's team is mostly worn out due to the short rotation but maybe they have one or two performances left in them.

Agree on Eddie Howe.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 29, 2020, 07:42:25 AM
Really the only place I can see Howe is West Ham if they get rid of Moyes.  The only other team I can see making a change is Newcastle with new owners, but I think they'll want a bigger name. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 29, 2020, 02:56:03 PM
Turns out Brentford had something left in the tank.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 29, 2020, 03:29:29 PM
Really the only place I can see Howe is West Ham if they get rid of Moyes.  The only other team I can see making a change is Newcastle with new owners, but I think they'll want a bigger name.

West Ham should do it without question. Moyes is a good guy, but he’s been atrocious since leaving United.

Brentford showing what made them a top club in the Championship all season. What a start and then that early goal in the second half was a back breaker to any enthusiasm Swansea had coming out of halftime
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 30, 2020, 04:00:25 PM
Wasn't exactly convincing but Fulham is through to the final to face Brentford. Brentford is the better side and I'm glad to get them in the final instead of over two legs.

In a normal timeline I'd consider hopping on a plane this weekend. If only.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 31, 2020, 02:18:44 PM
So RB Leipzig's manager left today.  Wonder if Jesse Marsch is named to that job.  Former assistant there and current RB Salzburg manager.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 31, 2020, 02:52:07 PM
So RB Leipzig's manager left today.  Wonder if Jesse Marsch is named to that job.  Former assistant there and current RB Salzburg manager.

Not current, Rangnick was the former manager. They bumped him aside when they got Nagelsmann. He’d been a sporting director type role, not the manager.

Marsch is in an interesting spot. He’s done very well in Salzburg and could be tapped to get another German gig, but he’s been with the Red Bull family for all of his success.  But Nagelsmann is only 33 and has dome quite well, so the only chance for Marsch to get that gig foreseeably is if Nagelsmann gets a look from Bayern or maybe one of the English powers. I don’t think he would leave RB for even BVB
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 31, 2020, 02:53:48 PM
Not current, Rangnick was the former manager. They bumped him aside when they got Nagelsmann. He’d been a sporting director type role, not the manager.

Marsch is in an interesting spot. He’s done very well in Salzburg and could be tapped to get another German gig, but he’s been with the Red Bull family for all of his success.  But Nagelsmann is only 33 and has dome quite well, so the only chance for Marsch to get that gig foreseeably is if Nagelsmann gets a look from Bayern or maybe one of the English powers. I don’t think he would leave RB for even BVB

Ah thanks for the correction.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 01, 2020, 03:50:10 PM
At what point does Pulisic's injury history start to cause real concern?  He hasn't had a major injury yet but my guess is it'll be at least 6 weeks for his hamstring to heal which will bleed into next season.  Fair amount of decent prospects coming through for the NT right now, but he's still the first name on the teamsheet when healthy.  All the talent in the world doesn't do you any good if you're hurt.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 02, 2020, 05:44:58 PM
At what point does Pulisic's injury history start to cause real concern?  He hasn't had a major injury yet but my guess is it'll be at least 6 weeks for his hamstring to heal which will bleed into next season.  Fair amount of decent prospects coming through for the NT right now, but he's still the first name on the teamsheet when healthy.  All the talent in the world doesn't do you any good if you're hurt.

Not worth even worrying about at this point. He played 29 and 30 league matches out of 34 for BVB in his first 2 seasons as a regular until his last season where he was knocked up and still played 20.

He played 25 this year out of 38 EPL for Chelsea and that’s including 5 where Lampard benched him.  He had that gnarly adductor injury, but otherwise was pretty fit. Until he starts missing huge stretches of season, I think it’s just the up and downs of a smaller guy in a rough and tumble league. He’s not like an Aron Johansson missing full seasons.

And with all due respect, it’s silly to even talk about his place on the USMNT in regards to prospects. He’s on his way to being the most successful US outfield player in the EPL, doing it for a top 4 club. He’s in no danger and his injury history hasn’t even been close enough to worry to that regard. A significant injury holding him out of a major international competition would be needed to even begin to have concern there
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 02, 2020, 11:05:50 PM
I think the injury history seems to line up more with the international windows. Feels like the third time that he's catching a knock either before or during international play. Hopefully he'll be back for a potential October window, but we'll see. I can understand those who feel like he's injured a bit more than we'd hope, the timing does seem to coincide with when our national team fans are most focused on his game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 03, 2020, 08:39:57 AM
I think the injury history seems to line up more with the international windows. Feels like the third time that he's catching a knock either before or during international play. Hopefully he'll be back for a potential October window, but we'll see. I can understand those who feel like he's injured a bit more than we'd hope, the timing does seem to coincide with when our national team fans are most focused on his game.

I think this is a better way to say what I was thinking.  After taking a closer look, overall his injury history isn't as bad as I originally thought, but he's still not racking up the international caps the way the soon to be 'greatest American of all time' should be.  Since failing to qualify for the 2018 WC, the USMNT has played 31 games, Pulisic has appeared in only 14 of them, and only played the full 90 in 6.  Considering just how differently we play when he's in the line-up vs when he's not, I'd like to see those number bump up significantly going into 2022 WCQ.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 03, 2020, 11:03:22 AM
I think this is a better way to say what I was thinking.  After taking a closer look, overall his injury history isn't as bad as I originally thought, but he's still not racking up the international caps the way the soon to be 'greatest American of all time' should be.  Since failing to qualify for the 2018 WC, the USMNT has played 31 games, Pulisic has appeared in only 14 of them, and only played the full 90 in 6.  Considering just how differently we play when he's in the line-up vs when he's not, I'd like to see those number bump up significantly going into 2022 WCQ.

You also have to factor in the lull that comes with missing a WC. You have a lot of meaningless matches. He played the full Gold Cup. He played against Ecuador and Chile early in 2019, he played against Mexico. Played in the friendliest vs Italy and England in late 2018.  He went the full 90 in 4 of 6 matches in the Gold Cup, and one of those was a beat down against Guyana and the other he came on late as a sub against Panama. A good chunk of those 17 games he missed were either trying to get healthy for EPL or preparing for a new EPL season. Not to mention meaningless friendlies where mostly domestic players are called up or fringe guys getting an opportunity. Not to mention not playing a full 90 in a friendly is usually very common if it’s not a direct tune up for a major comp.

I hear your point, and believe that as the USMNT finally starts playing meaningful matches again, you’ll see CP as the centerpiece very often. And that’s more important that a bunch of worthless caps and goals in lesser matches. His career and availability for random US matches will be different than Landon Donovan spending all his time feasting on the MLS and being within arms reach of US Soccer
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 04, 2020, 04:22:25 PM
Premier League football back at the Cottage. Nice  8-)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on August 04, 2020, 04:33:37 PM
So pumped. Hopefully they can stay up for more than a year so I can get out there to see a Premier League game.

I feel for David Raya but Thomas Frank can f**k off.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on August 04, 2020, 06:17:04 PM
Premier League football back at the Cottage. Nice  8-)

I was hoping for Brentford to make it to the EPL for the first time. Instead, we get another Fulham yo-yo season. Brentford has only themselves to blame, choking away two opportunities to lock up automatic promotion.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 12, 2020, 08:37:16 PM
Great article but REALLY unfortunate timing to read it this afternoon.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/11/sports/soccer/atalanta-bergamo-champions-league.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytsports

Atalanta played great this afternoon, but honestly it was more PSG being horrible and wasteful in the final 3rd. Neymar looked like Brazilian Gyasi Zardes and truly looked like he was trying to throw the match at times. But my god PSG’s final 15 min was magnificent. The final counterattack to score the winning goal was brilliant and honestly they looked dangerous for a 3rd in the final moments after being DOA offensively for much of the match. Would be ironic if this was the year they finally won a CL trophy, with a manager who has followed Jurgen Klopp at every his previous stops now following him to a CL trophy. Not to mention PSG finally getting the monkey off the back in a season without fans.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on August 13, 2020, 12:02:34 PM
St. Louis MLS team name, colors, crest officially announced today:

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 13, 2020, 12:08:03 PM
St. Louis MLS team name, colors, crest officially announced today:

Who's the honey?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on August 13, 2020, 12:44:23 PM
Who's the honey?

Carolyn Kindle Betz. She is one of the owners along with a few other female members of her family, all females. They own the team along with Jim Kavanaugh.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 13, 2020, 03:08:49 PM
St. Louis MLS team name, colors, crest officially announced today:

Terrible club name, IMO. But at least they didn’t go with Dynamo St Louis or some other nonsense European naming convention. Crest is pretty cool looking
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 13, 2020, 04:01:56 PM
Tyler Adams will see your "Christian Pulisic FA Cup Final goal" and raise you a "Champions League Quarterfinals winner".
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on August 13, 2020, 04:02:15 PM
Terrible club name, IMO. But at least they didn’t go with Dynamo St Louis or some other nonsense European naming convention. Crest is pretty cool looking

It’s a little bit complex. MLS as a league has been pushing for these types of names of many of the recent entries.

There has long been an artificial, self serving battle/divide between St. Louis City, and St. Louis County. Baltimore is the only other major metro where the city and county are separate. CITY in caps sends a pretty clear message that everywhere in the region is St. Louis City, from the city itself, to its inner/outer burbs, exurbs, rural towns and in between. But it starts inside out.

Sterling K Brown the actor is from St. Louis, (he’s a rah rah Stl guy) and this was his take on it:

https://twitter.com/ben_fred/status/1294006913496158208


It is also an ode to the rich historical history of St. Louis as the nation’s first and historic soccer capital with many players from the city.

I’m okay with it. My personal preference was Mound City Stars. Mound City (Native American founders many years ago prior to 1764 city founding) as well as the Negro League St. Louis Stars of Cool Papa Bell 3 Championship fame, as well as the former NASL soccer team which was St. Louis Stars.

The St. Louis flag is very popular in St. Louis, and the logo and colors are a take on that.  They didn’t want the same but similar. The logo includes the river confluence of Missouri and Mississippi  (as well as Meramec and Illinois) intertwined with the Arch. Soccer Club vs Football Club.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_St._Louis


I would personally flip the navy with the red and make the words and outline baby blue. That would pop.

Official colors are:

City Red, River Blue, Arch Steel Gray, Energy Yellow.

New stadium and team headquarters will be in Downtown West, down the street from the Scottrade Center across from Union Station. practice fields will be next door to the Union Station Train Shed. Chicago, Cincinnati, Nashville, KC etc...all less than a 5 hour drive for league games.

This is the United Soccer League St. Louis FC logo and colors attached as well.



Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 13, 2020, 04:13:59 PM
It’s a little bit complex. MLS as a league has been pushing for these types of names of many of the recent entries.

There has long been an artificial, self serving battle/divide between St. Louis City, and St. Louis County. Baltimore is the only other major metro where the city and county are separate.



What does this mean?  I know multiple major cities that are separate from their counties.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on August 13, 2020, 04:32:44 PM

What does this mean?  I know multiple major cities that are separate from their counties.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0814-baltimore-island-20190813-l3kwdosnafd4noiqcdna2ojcfi-story.html

https://familypedia.wikia.org/wiki/Independent_city

https://www.stlmag.com/news/politics/st-louis-great-divorce-history-city-county-split-attempt-to-get-back-together/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 13, 2020, 04:45:52 PM
Ah got it.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on August 13, 2020, 04:53:14 PM
Ah got it.  Thanks.

👍
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 14, 2020, 03:57:03 PM
So will Poch be named the next Barca manager before their plane lands back home?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 14, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
So will Poch be named the next Barca manager before their plane lands back home?

He lost 7-2 against bayern, fwiw.

Poch won't go to barca, due to his loyalty to espanyol.

Under the scoop law of transitive property,  Spurs>Barca.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 14, 2020, 04:09:01 PM
He lost 7-2 against bayern, fwiw.

Poch won't go to barca, due to his loyalty to espanyol.

Under the scoop law of transitive property,  Spurs>Barca.

I thought he said with Espanyol relegated that he would.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 14, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
I thought he said with Espanyol relegated that he would.

Hadnt heard that.  But barca is a chitshow right now.  Messi prob has 1 year left, board issues, financial issues.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 15, 2020, 11:07:35 PM
Poch to City?  $1b for 4 straight QF exits?  Yikes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 21, 2020, 05:00:44 PM
Sevilla in the Europa League, safest bet in sports.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 21, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
Sevilla in the Europa League, safest bet in sports.

Lukaku has scored in like 15 straight European Cup matches. Fitting that he scored the game winner...for Sevilla
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 02, 2020, 02:31:22 PM
https://www.espn.com/soccer/major-league-soccer/story/4171478/sources-staffers-describe-real-salt-lakes-toxic-sexist-company-culture

Bad look for MLS.  Shouldn't have taken this long to come out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 04, 2020, 11:08:36 AM
Widely Reported ...Messi announced he's staying at Barcelona this season to avoid legal dispute. But he made it clear he ia unhappy and wants to leave and he is reluctantly doing it.

Also as posted in tv thread, NBC is pushing a few/some higher profile Premier League games on Peacock. $.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 04, 2020, 12:52:40 PM
Widely Reported ...Messi announced he's staying at Barcelona this season to avoid legal dispute. But he made it clear he ia unhappy and wants to leave and he is reluctantly doing it.

Also as posted in tv thread, NBC is pushing a few/some higher profile Premier League games on Peacock. $.

Messi mailed it in the entire second half of the Bayern match and multiple times during the season made no effort to track back on defense. I would be entirely unsurprised to see a lot of that this season and fully expect Barca to finish comfortably behind Real and Atl Madrid
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 04, 2020, 03:00:48 PM
Gio Reyna piece:

https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states-usa/story/4168106/gio-reynathe-son-of-captain-americais-us-soccers-next-superhero?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 09, 2020, 09:17:05 AM
"Meet Liverpool's Secret Weapon" :

https://theathletic.com/2041669/2020/09/09/meet-william-spearman-liverpools-secret-weapon-15-seconds/?amp#click=https://t.co/KmBWKa3LIS
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 09, 2020, 01:39:41 PM
https://twitter.com/brfootball/status/1303725020749889540

Mewis and Lavelle were confimred a while ago, but now with Heath and Press the Derby will likely be the most watched female match since the 2019 WC Final.  That'll only help the popularity in this country.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 12, 2020, 10:06:23 AM
It didn't go the way they wanted, but, a nice achievement as Tim Ream made his 200th appearance for Fulham today.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 12, 2020, 10:35:05 AM
Did anyone see how quickly that incorrect red card replay was resolved during the CP v Southampton mate?

I dream about that sort of efficiency in the NFL.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on September 12, 2020, 12:37:15 PM
It didn't go the way they wanted, but, a nice achievement as Tim Ream made his 200th appearance for Fulham today.

And hopefully just one or two more before they replace him with a new CB. The number one position Fulham needs to upgrade.

Ugly start to the campaign today but with only 4 or 5 of the preferred 11 in the team it was to be expected.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 12, 2020, 01:07:00 PM
Nice moment and a great goal for 23 year old Jack Harrison. Played at Wake Forest, was former National Gatorade Player of the Year in Massachusetts:

https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1304825823468367872?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 12, 2020, 03:41:59 PM
Man, Leeds are the real deal, deserved a point IMO. Just the kind of breaks that it seems like Liverpool have gotten in the final 10 minutes of games the 18 months or so.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 12, 2020, 04:52:00 PM
Man, Leeds are the real deal, deserved a point IMO. Just the kind of breaks that it seems like Liverpool have gotten in the final 10 minutes of games the 18 months or so.

Mo salah is so punchable.

Leeds will be solid this year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 15, 2020, 03:15:39 PM
Come home, Gareth!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 15, 2020, 03:18:12 PM
Come home, Gareth!

A Bale-for-Dele swap is ... interesting?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 15, 2020, 03:29:25 PM
A Bale-for-Dele swap is ... interesting?

I worry about the price, the team chemistry and is wing play what really ails Tottenham?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 15, 2020, 03:43:35 PM
A Bale-for-Dele swap is ... interesting?

Only 1 source reporting that.  Dele would be gone if he's loaned to RM.

Shít performance v Everton, Mou masterclass to sign a bunch of players.  8D chess.   ;D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 15, 2020, 03:47:56 PM
I worry about the price, the team chemistry and is wing play what really ails Tottenham?

Real supposedly would pick uo half his wages, and if Dele goes back in return, the net increase for Spurs is relatively small.
Not sure how much Bale helps. Spurs may also be adding Sergio Reguilón.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 15, 2020, 03:52:31 PM
No doubt Levy watched Everton start a bunch of transfers and the win while Tottenham looked limp. He brought in Mou. Levy knows now is the time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 15, 2020, 03:58:00 PM
Gonna be hilarious to watch them implode over the next 18 months, because they could add Reguilon, Bale, and keep Dele, and they're still finishing no higher than 3rd in the Prem.  Would that be worth it to win the Europa League?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 15, 2020, 04:08:25 PM
Gonna be hilarious to watch them implode over the next 18 months, because they could add Reguilon, Bale, and keep Dele, and they're still finishing no higher than 3rd in the Prem.  Would that be worth it to win the Europa League?

For Spurs, yes. Any trophy will do.
And third in the PL isn't exactly a shameful showing, you know?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 15, 2020, 05:01:48 PM
For Spurs, yes. Any trophy will do.
And third in the PL isn't exactly a shameful showing, you know?


Especially when 1 and 2 are City and Liverpool.

The move looks risky to be sure, but something needed to be done
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 15, 2020, 05:04:46 PM


Especially when 1 and 2 are City and Liverpool.

The move looks risky to be sure, but something needed to be done

Just getting some big names in before Enic sells to Bezos.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 15, 2020, 05:26:19 PM
For Spurs, yes. Any trophy will do.
And third in the PL isn't exactly a shameful showing, you know?

Not shameful at all, just amusing to watch one of the more conservative clubs over the last decade go (essentially) all in on big names like Jose, and potentially Bale, when their ceiling is most likely the second tier European competition or a domestic cup.  Very anti-Spurs IMO.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 15, 2020, 05:30:44 PM
Not shameful at all, just amusing to watch one of the more conservative clubs over the last decade go (essentially) all in on big names like Jose, and potentially Bale, when their ceiling is most likely the second tier European competition or a domestic cup.  Very anti-Spurs IMO.

They made the UCL Finals and finished fourth just over a year ago. And didn’t build that stadium to maintain that.

Not saying they are making good moves but they don’t aspire for the ceiling you mention.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 15, 2020, 05:36:13 PM
They made the UCL Finals and finished fourth just over a year ago. And didn’t build that stadium to maintain that.

Not saying they are making good moves but they don’t aspire for the ceiling you mention.

I'm sure they don't, but they should also recognize that a 31 year old Bale, who has had fitness problems and hasn't seen very minutes at all the last 3 years, will not get them there.  I don't know what it'll cost them to get him, but I can guarantee that there are better, long term uses of that money.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 15, 2020, 06:01:21 PM
Not shameful at all, just amusing to watch one of the more conservative clubs over the last decade go (essentially) all in on big names like Jose, and potentially Bale, when their ceiling is most likely the second tier European competition or a domestic cup.  Very anti-Spurs IMO.

Suggesting their ceiling is second-tier Euro is kind of weird for a team that's 15 months removed from the Champions League finals and has been in the UCL four of the last five years.

As for going all in on Jose, I don't think they're paying for 2010 Mourinho here. Jose's tenure at Man U sullied his reputation pretty good, and I suspect Levy got him at a bargain rate.

By all accounts, Bale isn't going to cost them much, if anything. Some reports say it's going to be a loan or maybe even a free transfer, with Real picking up half his salary. The name is splashy, but the price is not.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 15, 2020, 06:08:26 PM
The whole point is that if you go with a Bale, Jose front, your essentially setting you window at about 2 years.  By then Jose will have worn out his welcome and Bale will be 33.  Why would you not continue to invest on young upcoming players that may be under-evaluated by some?

That doesn't even take into account that Spurs largest problem has been by-and-large defensively.  Now Vertonghen is gone, Alderweireld is 31.  Sanchez is very good, but then you're going to relying on Dier, whose best position IMO isn't CB.  Unless they have someone coming from the academy that is about to break through, they'll struggle to keep clean sheets again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 15, 2020, 09:24:04 PM
The whole point is that if you go with a Bale, Jose front, your essentially setting you window at about 2 years.  By then Jose will have worn out his welcome and Bale will be 33.  Why would you not continue to invest on young upcoming players that may be under-evaluated by some?

That doesn't even take into account that Spurs largest problem has been by-and-large defensively.  Now Vertonghen is gone, Alderweireld is 31.  Sanchez is very good, but then you're going to relying on Dier, whose best position IMO isn't CB.  Unless they have someone coming from the academy that is about to break through, they'll struggle to keep clean sheets again.

These are all very fair questions and criticisms, but also a long way from what you were writing earlier about Spurs' ceiling, aspirations and spending.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 15, 2020, 10:06:52 PM
Which of you cats are spurs?  I know jesmu is.  Who else?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 15, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Which of you cats are spurs?  I know jesmu is.  Who else?

#coys
Since the glorious Harry Redknapp era.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 16, 2020, 06:44:18 AM
These are all very fair questions and criticisms, but also a long way from what you were writing earlier about Spurs' ceiling, aspirations and spending.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. My whole point that I'm trying to make is that these moves (Jose, Bale) are very un-Spurs-ish IMO. And IMO it won't work out the way the Spurs fans hope.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 16, 2020, 05:56:36 PM
Sounds like Bale and Reguilon to Spurs are both imminent, if not #donedeal.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 16, 2020, 06:52:14 PM
Sounds like Bale and Reguilon to Spurs are both imminent, if not #donedeal.

Reguilon is "here we go."
Bale is close but not over the line yet.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 16, 2020, 07:58:21 PM
Reguilon is "here we go."
Bale is close but not over the line yet.

Zigs, you a Spurs man?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 16, 2020, 08:05:11 PM
Zigs, you a Spurs man?

Life is suffering.  Yes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 17, 2020, 06:53:04 AM
Reguilon is "here we go."
Bale is close but not over the line yet.

Bale is "here we go" now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 17, 2020, 08:55:35 AM
Life is suffering.  Yes.

This makes sense since I'm a gunners guy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 17, 2020, 10:00:02 AM
Liverpool secures Thiago from Bayern for just over £25MM and sign him through 2024. Excellent bit of business for them. Have to think Wijnaldum moves on to Barca now.  My god the midfield depth the Reds have is stunning. Relatively quiet window for Klopp but this is a thunderclap. Sucks to suck ManU and all their fans clamoring that they would swoop for Thiago.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on September 17, 2020, 11:06:12 AM
I don't think Gini goes. With the compressed schedule they desperately need quality squad depth. I'd love some reinforcement at CB while we're at it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 17, 2020, 11:48:14 AM
This makes sense since I'm a gunners guy.

I knew there was some wrong about you.   ;D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 17, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Season ticket deposits for 2023 St. Louis CITY SC began yesterday. There were 30,000 w/in the first 15 minutes, and 50,000 w/in the first 24 hours, and counting. Capacity is 22,500.

Earlier this summer, Lutz Pfannenstiel was named Sporting Director. Bernhard Peters from Germany Youth Academy fame, was hired to help develop their youth academy, and Mike Forde, former Chelsea Director of Football was also added.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 17, 2020, 01:40:55 PM
Nothing screams "we're ready to compete for silverware" like barely squeezing past 9 man Lokomotiv Plovdiv.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 17, 2020, 02:01:38 PM
Nothing screams "we're ready to compete for silverware" like barely squeezing past 9 man Lokomotiv Plovdiv.

8 man...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 17, 2020, 02:04:13 PM
Nothing screams "we're ready to compete for silverware" like barely squeezing past 9 man Lokomotiv Plovdiv.

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/14smAwp2uHM3Di/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 17, 2020, 02:06:47 PM
8 man...

There was a third red?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 17, 2020, 02:14:54 PM
I knew there was some wrong about you.   ;D

(https://i.imgflip.com/4fc641.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 17, 2020, 02:17:41 PM
There was a third red?

I thought there was but apparently not.  Carry on.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 17, 2020, 03:46:44 PM
NBC is putting all of their Saturday and Sunday morning games on Peacock this week.  What a farce. 

https://twitter.com/NBCSportsSoccer/status/1306695182600069125?s=20
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 17, 2020, 03:54:46 PM
NBC is putting all of their Saturday and Sunday morning games on Peacock this week.  What a farce. 

https://twitter.com/NBCSportsSoccer/status/1306695182600069125?s=20

Well, at least I don't have to get up at 6 a.m. Sunday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on September 17, 2020, 04:20:49 PM
NBC is putting all of their Saturday and Sunday morning games on Peacock this week.  What a farce. 

https://twitter.com/NBCSportsSoccer/status/1306695182600069125?s=20

After the cost of watching Fulham in the championship last season, $4.99 per month to watch these games live on my actual television seems like a downright steal.

Agreed, though.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 17, 2020, 05:31:21 PM
NBC is putting all of their Saturday and Sunday morning games on Peacock this week.  What a farce. 

https://twitter.com/NBCSportsSoccer/status/1306695182600069125?s=20

Dont understand NBC's decision.  A sport that is gaining popularity rapidly, now relegated to a stand alone streaming service.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 17, 2020, 06:42:10 PM
Dont understand NBC's decision.  A sport that is gaining popularity rapidly, now relegated to a stand alone streaming service.

And a streaming service that isn't readily available on the two main streaming platforms (Roku and Fire).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 17, 2020, 07:01:37 PM
Dont understand NBC's decision.  A sport that is gaining popularity rapidly, now relegated to a stand alone streaming service.

Not just a sport, but a production.  I just think they are looking at short term profit at the expense of long-term loss. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Tortuga94 on September 18, 2020, 08:40:38 AM
And a streaming service that isn't readily available on the two main streaming platforms (Roku and Fire).

I was able to load the app on my TV. I'm assuming most smart tvs will have the Peacock app available.
I will probably pay for the premium access, I paid last year for NBC Sports Gold, so not really any different for me.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 18, 2020, 10:20:48 AM
Not just a sport, but a production.  I just think they are looking at short term profit at the expense of long-term loss.

It truly is bizarre, cause NBC CRUSHED so much of it from the start.  The way they scheduled and spread out games, Arlo White was a fantastic snag to be their lead voice, their studio show headed by Rebecca Lowe is tremendous, just across the board great production and set up.  The NBC Gold was annoying at first just cause it was so nice to be able to flip through the app and bounce around matches in the early years, but I got it, even if it meant less matches on the lesser NBC networks.  But this is just terrible, and spot on short term profit view like you said.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on September 18, 2020, 03:22:15 PM
On top of not being on Roku or Fire, Peacock's interface sucks.

Even when you pay for it, no recording/pausing/rewinding live sports. Stupid.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 18, 2020, 06:07:56 PM
Update  ... Peacock and Roku reached a carriage deal today
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on September 18, 2020, 06:22:14 PM
Update  ... Peacock and Roku reached a carriage deal today

That's good news. I'm assuming that it won't be available for a few weeks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 19, 2020, 07:23:39 AM
A positive of no fans is all the hot mic action we get. Not sure what Bilic is complaining about though, red, clear as day.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 19, 2020, 08:02:14 AM
Only 175 of 380 PL games are on Peacock. This doesn't make any sense. Lots of people missing a good Everton game this morning.

But it is typical NBC. (Bracing for subpar upcoming French Open Tennis until after the long term contract expires 2024. Their coverage of that is turr-ible. Can't wait for ESPN/Tennis Channel to take it over. They do first ball last ball coverage)


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 19, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
https://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-transfers/story/4184027/tottenham-seal-sensational-gareth-bale-return
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 19, 2020, 02:39:16 PM
Gio Reyna's first Bundesliga goal:

https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1307371053669384193?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on September 21, 2020, 02:59:25 PM
That's good news. I'm assuming that it won't be available for a few weeks.

App now live on Roku.

Still trash. I'm paying you. Let me pause and record.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 24, 2020, 09:51:11 AM
ESPN deep dive on Messi and Barcelona.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/barcelona/story/4189133/messi-and-barcelona-the-inside-story-on-how-everything-fell-apartand-whats-next?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 24, 2020, 10:56:02 AM
Very good read about how pay-for-play is wrecking American soccer.

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-privilege-of-play-why-the-worlds-game-is-a-white-game-in-the-us-150024228.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 24, 2020, 11:29:20 AM
Very good read about how pay-for-play is wrecking American soccer.

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-privilege-of-play-why-the-worlds-game-is-a-white-game-in-the-us-150024228.html

Yep. Been going on a long time. I have paid fees and have had fees waived for low income Black, Hispanic, and Immigrant friends so their kids can play on some of the more expensive higher profile teams.

Youth soccer is about ball possession in small spaces under pressure, until it gets mastered. Practice is everything. It takes time, patience, skill enhancement, critical thinking, etc...

Unfortunately, far
too many coaches and parents want it to be a re-do of their youth and make it about wins and losses, more tournaments, which leads to $$$ focus etc...That isn’t what youth soccer and training is about.

You have kids on the 10th or 11th Club team paying the same as the top few teams even though they are not getting the same level of training.

You also have big, large, club mergers which only increases the economic divide.

Coaches, Directors, etc have to intentionally change the environment and make it a priority. Many don’t. Some are doing it. But not yet enough.






Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 24, 2020, 11:39:53 AM
ESPN deep dive on Messi and Barcelona.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/barcelona/story/4189133/messi-and-barcelona-the-inside-story-on-how-everything-fell-apartand-whats-next?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true


Barca should have taken the $150M from City and moved on.  It's hard to do, but IMO they can't really commit to a start over until he is gone.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Big Papi on September 24, 2020, 12:15:36 PM

You have kids on the 10th or 11th Club team paying the same as the top few teams even though they are not getting the same level of training.


That's nuts.  Our club pricing is tiered.  MRL is 1 fee, top team state play is another lower fee, 2nd and 3rd teams are lower fees.  We all have the same number of trainings regardless of level but its tournament fees/obligations and the coaching level you receive.  Lots of greedy bastards.

If you truly want to grow the sport of soccer, you have to revise the current structure and get rid of the high priced pay for play.  It needs to be a much lower dollar amount that is somehow subsidized by the U.S. Soccer Federation and in turn better training of youth coaches.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 26, 2020, 08:37:29 AM
United look like trash.  Never seen a team get so lucky in 90 + 11 minutes.  Brighton hit the post 5 times and then gift a 99th minute penalty. Brutal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 26, 2020, 09:23:59 AM
United look like trash.  Never seen a team get so lucky in 90 + 11 minutes.  Brighton hit the post 5 times and then gift a 99th minute penalty. Brutal.

Caught the final few goals late which appears to have been nice timing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 26, 2020, 11:05:21 AM
No Kepa between the sticks for Chelsea today. Biggest bust ever?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 26, 2020, 11:06:27 AM
Don't know if anyone else is paying attention to the Championship, but Reading FC starting with 3 wins is pretty surreal. For a team that always tends to start slow, Veljko Paunovic is looking like a surprisingly good hire. Royals all alone at the top of the table!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 26, 2020, 04:36:33 PM
Solid 87 minutes for Josh Sargent today, and, this assist:

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1309902843420143616?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on October 01, 2020, 06:39:20 AM
San Diego walks off the field due to slur.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/san-diego-loyal-phoenix-uprising-landon-donovan-collin-martin-usl-050140214.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 01, 2020, 12:20:12 PM
Dest to Barca official. 

https://twitter.com/FCBarcelona/status/1311663730392920069

Most of them are still really young, but there have never been more Americans at big European clubs than right now.  Barca, Bayern, Dortmund, Leipzig, Juve, Chelsea, Man City. I remember when it was a huge deal that Yedlin went to Newcastle.  If everyone is healthy and playing for a competent coach, we could actually make some noise. 2026 on home soil is gonna be the year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 01, 2020, 05:12:32 PM
Dest to Barca official. 

https://twitter.com/FCBarcelona/status/1311663730392920069

Most of them are still really young, but there have never been more Americans at big European clubs than right now.  Barca, Bayern, Dortmund, Leipzig, Juve, Chelsea, Man City. I remember when it was a huge deal that Yedlin went to Newcastle.  If everyone is healthy and playing for a competent coach, we could actually make some noise. 2026 on home soil is gonna be the year.

Whats the most significant for me is that they aren't being brought on as "token" players for marketing purposes, or to be loaned out incessantly and maybe be developed (like Miazga at Chelsea or Steffan so far at Man City).  Reyna, like Pulisic before him, is an everyday player at BVB that fans are stoked about.  Adams is a mainstay in the midfield in Leipzig, Pulisic is arguably one of the 3-4 most important players for Chelsea when he's been healthy the last 9 months, and Dest incited a battle between Bayen and Barca which doesn't happen over a nobody.  I thought the McKinnie to Juve move was a bit odd, but he's already gotten 2 appearances.

And that doesn't even count a guy like Chris Richards who has made 2 appearances for Bayern and hasn't been capped yet for the USMNT yet or Tim Weah who is on another very good club at Lille who has been sidetracked by injury lately.  He's also not going to be a #1 striker given the talent, but I still really like Tyler Boyd for depth up top and he's getting meaningful time for Besiktas and is only 25.  He could be positioning himself for another jump up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 01, 2020, 05:29:56 PM
I'm actually okay with Steffan at City.  They play a ton of games and always take their lesser cups seriously.  He's already gotten two appearances, and you have to assume that he'll be their FA Cup keeper too.  Plus, even being in a situation where you can face Kevin De Bryune free kicks in training everyday, you're going to get better.  Miazga was always going to be a part of Chelsea's loan army, and with the manager turnover rate their, it was always going to be tough to break through.  I'm actually a little more disappointed that CCV hasn't been able to make the jump to the first team with the defensive injuries and departures that have happened there.  But overall, I agree, the fact that these players are getting minutes for the most part will go a long way in their development.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 03, 2020, 01:45:05 PM
3 assists today for Gio Reyna for Dortmund. Here's all 3 plus a standing ovation from the crowd.

https://twitter.com/espn/status/1312393194718457856?s=19

https://twitter.com/USMNT/status/1312404681235234816?s=19


https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1312411175146094592?s=19


https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1312411429757046786?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 03, 2020, 07:49:11 PM
I'm actually okay with Steffan at City.  They play a ton of games and always take their lesser cups seriously.  He's already gotten two appearances, and you have to assume that he'll be their FA Cup keeper too.  Plus, even being in a situation where you can face Kevin De Bryune free kicks in training everyday, you're going to get better.  Miazga was always going to be a part of Chelsea's loan army, and with the manager turnover rate their, it was always going to be tough to break through.  I'm actually a little more disappointed that CCV hasn't been able to make the jump to the first team with the defensive injuries and departures that have happened there.  But overall, I agree, the fact that these players are getting minutes for the most part will go a long way in their development.

I wish he had stayed at Reading. I think the Championship was a good level for him and he would've been a key part of a team that looks ready to make a push for promotion. Not sure if it was an interest factor or if the price was too steep. I see he moved on loan to Anderlecht today. Could have worse landing spots, but I'm not sure the level of competition is higher there than he would've faced in the second tier in England.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on October 03, 2020, 08:13:21 PM
Am I the only Everton fan on this board 👀👀👀👀👀👀
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 03, 2020, 08:51:44 PM
I wish he had stayed at Reading. I think the Championship was a good level for him and he would've been a key part of a team that looks ready to make a push for promotion. Not sure if it was an interest factor or if the price was too steep. I see he moved on loan to Anderlecht today. Could have worse landing spots, but I'm not sure the level of competition is higher there than he would've faced in the second tier in England.

It's kind of a weird place for him to be at this point in his career, but at the same time if anyone can get him to take a significant jump, it's probably Kompany.

Am I the only Everton fan on this board 👀👀👀👀👀👀

Not really a fan of the club, but have enjoyed watching them so far this year. James seems to be the missing piece. Ancelotti is a top manager. My "bold" prediction with my prem buddies a week or so ago was that they'll sneak into the top 4. Think the only thing holding them back at this point is Pickford, his form has dropped off a cliff since the World Cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 03, 2020, 10:10:02 PM
Am I the only Everton fan on this board 👀👀👀👀👀👀

Did you begin as a fan because of Tim Howard... and you've stuck around for the pain?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on October 04, 2020, 06:23:52 AM
Did you begin as a fan because of Tim Howard... and you've stuck around for the pain?

Yup, adopted them as my EPL team since Lando and Timmy were there.  Could’ve been worse, almost picked Fulham when Clint was there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 04, 2020, 06:59:00 AM
Yup, adopted them as my EPL team since Lando and Timmy were there.  Could’ve been worse, almost picked Fulham when Clint was there.

It gets worse than Fulham...I've been a Reading supporter since the Bobby Convey/Marcus Hahnemann days.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 04, 2020, 08:36:12 AM
Today, U.S. International Antonee Robinson laces em up for Fulham in the Premier League.

Robinson
Ream
McBride
Bocanegra
Dempsey
Johnson
Keller
Lewis


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 04, 2020, 08:57:11 AM
It gets worse than Fulham...I've been a Reading supporter since the Bobby Convey/Marcus Hahnemann days.


I find this fascinating about EPL fandom.  My teams have been my teams since childhood.  They are all based on geography and family history (ie, they are the teams my dad rooted for.)  Nothing parallel to that exists for me in the EPL.  Sure, I like storylines and like to watch the games.  But once Tim Howard left Everton, I didn't have much interest in continuing to follow them.  If my basis for being interested in them was a player, and that player is gone, why would I continue to be interested?

BTW, this isn't criticism.  People can root for who they want for whatever reasons.  It just is difficult for me to do something similar.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 04, 2020, 09:01:07 AM
Haven't seen it mentioned here but Reggie Cannon made the switch to Boavista in Portugal.

Yedlin, Dest, Cannon. That's some right back depth there, so much so that I'd consider throwing whomever is most comfortable in at left-back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 04, 2020, 11:48:44 AM
Yup, adopted them as my EPL team since Lando and Timmy were there.  Could’ve been worse, almost picked Fulham when Clint was there.

A friend from my teen days played for Fulham, so I had a rooting interest in them back in the day. Fortunately, that ended when he left.

Unrelated, and to borrow a line, Man U is a hot mess inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on October 04, 2020, 01:47:56 PM

I find this fascinating about EPL fandom.  My teams have been my teams since childhood.  They are all based on geography and family history (ie, they are the teams my dad rooted for.)  Nothing parallel to that exists for me in the EPL.  Sure, I like storylines and like to watch the games.  But once Tim Howard left Everton, I didn't have much interest in continuing to follow them.  If my basis for being interested in them was a player, and that player is gone, why would I continue to be interested?

BTW, this isn't criticism.  People can root for who they want for whatever reasons.  It just is difficult for me to do something similar.

I think pride of fandom for me.  It’s rare when you actually “adopt” a team, and learn a lot about them, their history, how they play.  I grew to love players outside of Howard and Lando like Leighton Baines, Tim Cahill, Phil Jagielka...as an adult, it was a fun experience and say, hey, this is my new squad, good times and bad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 04, 2020, 03:40:46 PM
Sergiño Dest (Barcelona) becomes the 5th U.S. International to play in La Liga.

Dest
Moore
Onyewu
Altidore
Keller
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 04, 2020, 04:05:45 PM
So Mane and Thiago. Pretty important players?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 04, 2020, 07:49:11 PM
I think pride of fandom for me.  It’s rare when you actually “adopt” a team, and learn a lot about them, their history, how they play.  I grew to love players outside of Howard and Lando like Leighton Baines, Tim Cahill, Phil Jagielka...as an adult, it was a fun experience and say, hey, this is my new squad, good times and bad.

Same for me with Liverpool. Michael Owen at the 1998 World Cup brought me to them and by the time he left 5 years later, I was enamored with the club and guys like Hyppia, Carragher, Xabi Alonso, and oh yea that Stevie Gerrard guy.  I’ve grown to love them and their history as much as any American sports team i grew up.  But it makes sense, cause if you love the sport, short of family history in Europe, you’ll struggle to have a direct line.

But at the same time, it’s always weird for me domestically. One of my roommates in college was an Eagles fan cause he loved Donovan McNabb. He grew up in Cincinnati and had no ties to either Philly or even Cuse when he was there. But he also couldn’t tell you anything about their history or legacy, though he was a fervent fan of the team when he was there.  Same way I completely don’t get “Lebron fans”, not fans of an NBA team, who were huge Cavs fans and now talk about the Lakers as “we”
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 04, 2020, 07:59:02 PM
It's often said that whomever you root for as a 10-12 year old or so, even (8-12) are the teams/players you will root for long term. School, geography or personal life experience can also build longer term allegiances.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 05, 2020, 07:14:52 AM
Gunnersaurus sacked by Arsenal.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 05, 2020, 07:27:31 AM
U.S. Women popularity playing in England's Women's Super League:

https://twitter.com/wosovavel/status/1313046719865724928?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 05, 2020, 10:10:01 AM
Gunnersaurus sacked by Arsenal.

Wrong Red club
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 05, 2020, 10:11:21 AM
Wrong Red club

Gunnar is next.   ;D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 05, 2020, 10:14:35 AM
Gunnersaurus sacked by Arsenal.   

Better defender than David Luiz
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 05, 2020, 10:24:44 AM
Better defender than David Luiz

You are probably a better defender than sideshow bob.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 05, 2020, 10:44:16 AM
Hey, United would take Luiz in a heartbeat, he usually waits until the 80th minute or later to screw up, Bailly, Shaw, and Maguire sunk United within the first 10 minutes, and lets not pretend like Lindelof would have done any better.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 05, 2020, 01:59:45 PM
https://twitter.com/24_mercato/status/1313169809799028737

This would be the greatest thing ever.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 05, 2020, 05:33:59 PM
https://twitter.com/24_mercato/status/1313169809799028737

This would be the greatest thing ever.

I’m usually happy to hate on anything Madison related, but Forward Madison’s marketing and social media people are fantastic and have been since their inception
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 05, 2020, 07:23:21 PM
I’m usually happy to hate on anything Madison related, but Forward Madison’s marketing and social media people are fantastic and have been since their inception

Also, the stadium is a ton of fun and very close to downtown
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 08, 2020, 08:23:33 AM

I find this fascinating about EPL fandom.  My teams have been my teams since childhood.  They are all based on geography and family history (ie, they are the teams my dad rooted for.)  Nothing parallel to that exists for me in the EPL.  Sure, I like storylines and like to watch the games.  But once Tim Howard left Everton, I didn't have much interest in continuing to follow them.  If my basis for being interested in them was a player, and that player is gone, why would I continue to be interested?

BTW, this isn't criticism.  People can root for who they want for whatever reasons.  It just is difficult for me to do something similar.

For me, a number of reasons. Hahnemann was there for a long time & I was well-vested by the time he left. I had a few Reading kits sent from overseas, had attached myself to other non-American players like Gylfi Sigurdsson & Shane Long, and had steeped myself in the lore of players like Robin Friday & Steve Death. And I'll admit, early on there was a rugged determination to finding online radio streams of Championship matches or typed play-by-play on Sky Sports.

Shortly thereafter, Danny Williams joined and was immediately an impact player, then Andrija Novakovich switched from Marquette to Reading & (even though he never made an impact) reinvigorated my love for the club.

I also think the small clubs are dedicated to growing their fanbases. Any time I ordered something online, it came with personal touches. Postcards or hand-written thank you notes, invitations for tours if I'm ever abroad, they're good at making me as a fan feel valued, certainly more so than any American pro sports team ever did.

It might also come from me being a bit of a sports vagabond growing up. My parents weren't into sports, so I formed all my allegiances independently, which made following Reading a similar process to the way I gravitated to sports teams as a kid.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 08, 2020, 11:07:20 AM
The 10 U.S. Men's National Team Players (all 25 or under) on Champions League Teams for 2020-2021:

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2020/10/pulisic-mckennie-adams-dest-and-reyna-headline-list-of-10-usmnt-players-on-champions-league-squads
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 13, 2020, 05:58:02 PM
wow, teams threatening to leave the EPL, power being concentrated in the hands of the "big six" clubs, teams further down the pyramid in serious trouble financially with EPL teams not wanting to help them out, reduction of teams from 20 to 18 (the relegation race would be fierce!).  The EPL and the big six are becoming like the NCAA and the Power 5.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/4207376/top-clubs-threatened-premier-league-exit-during-project-big-picture-talks-fa-chief
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 13, 2020, 07:12:58 PM
wow, teams threatening to leave the EPL, power being concentrated in the hands of the "big six" clubs, teams further down the pyramid in serious trouble financially with EPL teams not wanting to help them out, reduction of teams from 20 to 18 (the relegation race would be fierce!).  The EPL and the big six are becoming like the NCAA and the Power 5.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/4207376/top-clubs-threatened-premier-league-exit-during-project-big-picture-talks-fa-chief


It's tough.  The top clubs earn the $$.  The bottom clubs need it.  They have to give up something in return.

I think the big six through out their top proposal and will negotiate down from there, but undoubtedly things will change.  It has to.  Whether than means no League Cup or an 18 team Premier League, the EFL can't expect to get support but give nothing in return.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 14, 2020, 05:57:37 AM
The Big Six are full of crap. They want extra voting shares for the 9 longest serving members, even though some of those have been in the PL for less than a decade currently? And saying the EFL members give nothing in return ignores they have to continually meet stadium regulations just to adequately compete in their own leagues in the event they are promoted. It's a classic example of money ruining sport. Billionaire owners are convinced they don't have enough of the pie so they are trying to cut off the support system below that allows them to exist in the first place.

This is basically Amazon forcing your local grocer out of business and then complaining they don't get enough tax breaks. It's driven by greed from foreign investors that don't understand or care about the system they bought in to and just want to rape it for every last penny they can.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 14, 2020, 08:02:33 AM
The Big Six are full of crap. They want extra voting shares for the 9 longest serving members, even though some of those have been in the PL for less than a decade currently? And saying the EFL members give nothing in return ignores they have to continually meet stadium regulations just to adequately compete in their own leagues in the event they are promoted. It's a classic example of money ruining sport. Billionaire owners are convinced they don't have enough of the pie so they are trying to cut off the support system below that allows them to exist in the first place.

This is basically Amazon forcing your local grocer out of business and then complaining they don't get enough tax breaks. It's driven by greed from foreign investors that don't understand or care about the system they bought in to and just want to rape it for every last penny they can.


So why should they give up $$ to help the lower leagues?  Why should the 3rd and 4th tiers stay as professional leagues if they don't earn the revenue to support themselves?

I agree the governance structure they proposed is bad, but I don't know why the PL clubs should be compelled to give up resources that the other clubs haven't earned.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on October 14, 2020, 10:56:49 AM

So why should they give up $$ to help the lower leagues?  Why should the 3rd and 4th tiers stay as professional leagues if they don't earn the revenue to support themselves?

I agree the governance structure they proposed is bad, but I don't know why the PL clubs should be compelled to give up resources that the other clubs haven't earned.

This would be such a dangerous tipping point for English football though. Look at teams like Sunderland when they leave the Premier League. They don't just drop one division, they sometimes drop two or more.

There would be countless teams going into administration. Tons of local clubs going under. All you have to would be to look at the concentration of English football teams that went into administration after the premier league was formed (1992) compared to a time before the Prem.

Hell, Wigan and Bolton went into administration from the championship and Bolton was a premier league regular for over a decade.

It would be an absolute mess. Brits have always said the Premier League was the worst thing to happen to English football, until now I considered that just to be British pessimism but I''m starting to believe them now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 14, 2020, 11:09:30 AM
McKennie tests positive for Covid.  Out for the Champions League game against Kiev, probably out for the game against Barca.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 14, 2020, 11:13:47 AM
This would be such a dangerous tipping point for English football though. Look at teams like Sunderland when they leave the Premier League. They don't just drop one division, they sometimes drop two or more.

There would be countless teams going into administration. Tons of local clubs going under. All you have to would be to look at the concentration of English football teams that went into administration after the premier league was formed (1992) compared to a time before the Prem.

Hell, Wigan and Bolton went into administration from the championship and Bolton was a premier league regular for over a decade.

It would be an absolute mess. Brits have always said the Premier League was the worst thing to happen to English football, until now I considered that just to be British pessimism but I''m starting to believe them now.


Well, teams like Sunderland dropping multiple divisions happened before the Premier League.

But the problem is that the Brits want things the way they were, but that's not going to happen.  Too much money in the game now.  So if you are going to keep the pyramid going, you are going to have to transfer wealth from the top to the bottom.  And the teams at the top aren't going to agree to that unilaterally, out of the goodness of their hearts and/or for the sake of tradition.

I mean, yeah it sucks.  The only way for teams like Newcastle, and 80+ other professional teams, to seriously compete for a title is if they get bought by someone very wealthy - most likely someone from outside Britain who views the purchase as an investment and/or a vanity piece.  Those owners aren't going to care about the Plymouth Argyle's or the Saunthorpe's of the league.  Why should they?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 14, 2020, 12:40:53 PM

Well, teams like Sunderland dropping multiple divisions happened before the Premier League.

But the problem is that the Brits want things the way they were, but that's not going to happen.  Too much money in the game now.  So if you are going to keep the pyramid going, you are going to have to transfer wealth from the top to the bottom.  And the teams at the top aren't going to agree to that unilaterally, out of the goodness of their hearts and/or for the sake of tradition.

I mean, yeah it sucks.  The only way for teams like Newcastle, and 80+ other professional teams, to seriously compete for a title is if they get bought by someone very wealthy - most likely someone from outside Britain who views the purchase as an investment and/or a vanity piece.  Those owners aren't going to care about the Plymouth Argyle's or the Saunthorpe's of the league.  Why should they?

Found the problem.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 15, 2020, 12:01:58 AM
Found the problem.

It wasn’t an issue for the longest time, but the explosion of money in football has made it crazy. People talk about the huge gap between the EPL and other leagues, but hell, League 1, the 3rd tier of English football, still has an average salary of like $160-$170K. When you figure many of these clubs play in stadiums with capacities smaller than your average NBA arena, and many decent sized college arenas (<15K), even with some TV money, they are going to be very strained financially trying to balance gate takes with wages.

They’ve started to discuss a salary cap for League 1 and League 2, but that’s going to have push back cause it will make it very difficult for bigger clubs that fall down to splash some quid and buy their way right back to the Championship
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 16, 2020, 08:18:32 AM
19 year old American Brenden Aaronson of the MLS Philadelphia Union, will leave at the end of the season and join Austria's Red Bull Salzburg.

$6 million transfer fee and $3 million performance incentives is the largest for an MLS Academy Player.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 16, 2020, 08:36:01 AM
19 year old American Brenden Aaronson of the MLS Philadelphia Union, will leave at the end of the season and join Austria's Red Bull Salzburg.

$6 million transfer fee and $3 million performance incentives is the largest for an MLS Academy Player.

This kid can play.  Marsch played heavily in the recruitment of him.  Guaranteed him Champions League minutes, and sold him on Salzburg being a stepping stone to the Bundesliga. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 16, 2020, 10:47:36 AM
This kid can play.  Marsch played heavily in the recruitment of him.  Guaranteed him Champions League minutes, and sold him on Salzburg being a stepping stone to the Bundesliga.

Very impressed with how RB Salzburg has positioned themselves. They are almost in that Ajax mode of the 90s, both for players and managers. The last 5 RB managers have ended up in the Bundesliga or other top leagues and obviously countless players have moved on recently as well. Not to mention, in the meantime you will play aggressive attacking football, win A LOT, and play in the CL. It’s a fantastic scenario
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 16, 2020, 12:03:24 PM
Very impressed with how RB Salzburg has positioned themselves. They are almost in that Ajax mode of the 90s, both for players and managers. The last 5 RB managers have ended up in the Bundesliga or other top leagues and obviously countless players have moved on recently as well. Not to mention, in the meantime you will play aggressive attacking football, win A LOT, and play in the CL. It’s a fantastic scenario

The rumor (key word here) that I have heard recently is that if Pep leaves City at the end of the year, Nagelsmann is their top choice to replace him.  If that were to happen, you would think that Marsch would have a decent shot at the Leipzig job.  Would be a great move for him, downside would be that if he moves there in the summer of 2021, I don't think he would be ready to move on should he get a call to coach the USMNT after the 2022 WC.  Tons of speculation, I know, but would be very interesting to see how things would shake out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 16, 2020, 01:05:32 PM

So why should they give up $$ to help the lower leagues?  Why should the 3rd and 4th tiers stay as professional leagues if they don't earn the revenue to support themselves?

I agree the governance structure they proposed is bad, but I don't know why the PL clubs should be compelled to give up resources that the other clubs haven't earned.

Because the structure doesn't work without them. You can't win a treble without winning those cups contested with other leagues in your system. Because those leagues are part of the development system that provides players to the upper leagues. Supporting those teams and leagues provides the player development that gives them a player pool, it provides the opposition to give the titles they win credibility. Unless every other major league joins them in divorcing from lower tiers, it will undermine their ability to compete and earn respect at the European level they desire. Guys like Jamie Vardy and Gylfi Sigurdsson cut their teeth for years in lower leagues. Or think of someone like Harry Kane, who was loaned out repeatedly before he was ready for Spurs. If those clubs are allowed to wither away, there goes that development avenue.

What the outside investors fail to understand is that the relationship between the PL and the lower leagues is not parasitic, it is symbiotic. They need each other to survive and thrive. The competition, the players, everything that sustains the clubs and allows them to profit the way they do is because of the links they have with the lower leagues. And while it's easy to say "well, it will only effect the bottom leagues" we all know it will start low and cut off higher and higher up. At first it will be the lowest leagues, then Leagues 1 and 2, then the Championship, all of which are needed for the system to function.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: reinko on October 16, 2020, 01:10:53 PM
Roll your asses out of bed on Sat AM for the Merseyside.
 

COYB!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on October 16, 2020, 01:18:00 PM
Roll your asses out of bed on Sat AM for the Merseyside.
 

COYB!

While it helps my guys, I still wish we could have a full Goodison tomorrow. It would have been a spectacle.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 16, 2020, 01:32:12 PM
Because the structure doesn't work without them. You can't win a treble without winning those cups contested with other leagues in your system. Because those leagues are part of the development system that provides players to the upper leagues. Supporting those teams and leagues provides the player development that gives them a player pool, it provides the opposition to give the titles they win credibility. Unless every other major league joins them in divorcing from lower tiers, it will undermine their ability to compete and earn respect at the European level they desire. Guys like Jamie Vardy and Gylfi Sigurdsson cut their teeth for years in lower leagues. Or think of someone like Harry Kane, who was loaned out repeatedly before he was ready for Spurs. If those clubs are allowed to wither away, there goes that development avenue.

What the outside investors fail to understand is that the relationship between the PL and the lower leagues is not parasitic, it is symbiotic. They need each other to survive and thrive. The competition, the players, everything that sustains the clubs and allows them to profit the way they do is because of the links they have with the lower leagues. And while it's easy to say "well, it will only effect the bottom leagues" we all know it will start low and cut off higher and higher up. At first it will be the lowest leagues, then Leagues 1 and 2, then the Championship, all of which are needed for the system to function.


So they should just give them what they need without conditions?  Because the League Cup would lose is legitimacy otherwise?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 16, 2020, 01:48:08 PM

So they should just give them what they need without conditions?  Because the League Cup would lose is legitimacy otherwise?

Because their competition and development relies on the continued existence of those organizations. Besides, why draw this arbitrary line now? Fully 70% of the current PL makeup has spent time in lower leagues since 2000-01, which includes 5 of the last 9 PL league title winners.

This is arbitrary and ignores the system that has allowed these teams to have success in the first place, allowed them to develop the players they use, and gave them the springboard they used to win titles.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 16, 2020, 02:34:35 PM
CCV to Bournemouth on a year long loan.  Contract is up in June.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 16, 2020, 02:45:35 PM
Because their competition and development relies on the continued existence of those organizations. Besides, why draw this arbitrary line now? Fully 70% of the current PL makeup has spent time in lower leagues since 2000-01, which includes 5 of the last 9 PL league title winners.

This is arbitrary and ignores the system that has allowed these teams to have success in the first place, allowed them to develop the players they use, and gave them the springboard they used to win titles.


Nothing presented in the plan prevents any of this from happening.

Don't get me wrong, I thought there was a lot of things, especially in the PL governance aspect that was a problem.  But this is the way negotiations work - if they want resources, they have to give up something in return.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 16, 2020, 02:49:39 PM

Nothing presented in the plan prevents any of this from happening.

Don't get me wrong, I thought there was a lot of things, especially in the PL governance aspect that was a problem.  But this is the way negotiations work - if they want resources, they have to give up something in return.

Immediately, no, but this is a money and power grab. When does a money and power grab not lead to those with the most power using it to sap more and more money out of those with less influence? Do you really believe the large clubs will keep sending equitable shares to the lower leagues out of the goodness of their hearts?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 16, 2020, 02:52:21 PM
Immediately, no, but this is a money and power grab. When does a money and power grab not lead to those with the most power using it to sap more and more money out of those with less influence? Do you really believe the large clubs will keep sending equitable shares to the lower leagues out of the goodness of their hearts?


Then maybe its not a sustainable business model.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 16, 2020, 02:57:06 PM

Then maybe its not a sustainable business model.

There's more than enough money in the PL to support the EFL. This is a microcosm of our own economic system where all the resources are being redirected to an extreme minority.

The problem isn't the model, it's the greed of the outside investors.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 16, 2020, 03:06:04 PM
There's more than enough money in the PL to support the EFL. This is a microcosm of our own economic system where all the resources are being redirected to an extreme minority.

The problem isn't the model, it's the greed of the outside investors.


Well OK.  I think that's a bad comparison.  A country's taxation system and the economics of soccer leagues are different things completely. 

What you are pushing for is transferring wealth from those who earned it to those who haven't...and give up nothing in return.  That's not how it works.  The lower leagues are going to have to give up something, the League Cup, the size of the PL, something. 

So if you want to save the system, you have to reform it as well. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 16, 2020, 04:32:36 PM
Except they are all in the same league system. It wasn't long ago that Leicester & Man City were outside the PL. They are going to exclude teams just removed from that league. The EFL are divisions of the same league the PL members are in.

What does that mean? Those EFL teams HAVE earned it. There are 30 teams outside the PL currently that have played PL games, contributed to the development of the PL as a league, and continue to enhance its competition and development. The PL would not be what it is without the teams that have been members before and could be again. It's a misunderstanding of the appeal of the league system.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 17, 2020, 08:30:44 AM
VAR, discuss.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on October 17, 2020, 10:09:46 AM
VAR, discuss.

It's a disaster. Next question.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 17, 2020, 11:29:11 AM
VAR, discuss.

It makes NFL instant reply seem effective and efficient.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 17, 2020, 11:41:22 AM
Except they are all in the same league system. It wasn't long ago that Leicester & Man City were outside the PL. They are going to exclude teams just removed from that league. The EFL are divisions of the same league the PL members are in.

What does that mean? Those EFL teams HAVE earned it. There are 30 teams outside the PL currently that have played PL games, contributed to the development of the PL as a league, and continue to enhance its competition and development. The PL would not be what it is without the teams that have been members before and could be again. It's a misunderstanding of the appeal of the league system.

If I'm investing hundreds of millions, it not a billion plus, into a PL club, you're going to have to make more compelling arguments for me giving some of that money away than "these teams used to be good." Asking me to prop up a failing enterprise merely for tradition's sake isn't going to win me over. I mean, how have the big clubs been hurt by the folding of Bury FC or Macclesfield Town?

Show me how Liverpool or Man U tangibly benefit from the existence of Southend United or Yoevil Town and I'm listening. Otherwise, you want me to throw good money after bad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on October 18, 2020, 08:16:45 AM
FC Toronto is posting their home games in Hartford this season.  They are actually letting 5,000 people in the building on Nov. 1 game to watch.  They considered the Oct 28 game but they are playing FCNYC and they didn't want their fans in the building and name it more of a road game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 18, 2020, 10:45:25 AM
If I'm investing hundreds of millions, it not a billion plus, into a PL club, you're going to have to make more compelling arguments for me giving some of that money away than "these teams used to be good." Asking me to prop up a failing enterprise merely for tradition's sake isn't going to win me over. I mean, how have the big clubs been hurt by the folding of Bury FC or Macclesfield Town?

Show me how Liverpool or Man U tangibly benefit from the existence of Southend United or Yoevil Town and I'm listening. Otherwise, you want me to throw good money after bad.

If they don't want to invest in a business that is tied to nearly 100 other businesses, maybe they should've put their money elsewhere. They decided to put money into this venture, that means taking the connections and liabilities that come with it. If it's so terrible that they are in the same league structure as EFL teams, it was their mistake not to do their due diligence to understand the responsibilities that came with buying into the PL.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 18, 2020, 02:10:57 PM
If they don't want to invest in a business that is tied to nearly 100 other businesses, maybe they should've put their money elsewhere. They decided to put money into this venture, that means taking the connections and liabilities that come with it. If it's so terrible that they are in the same league structure as EFL teams, it was their mistake not to do their due diligence to understand the responsibilities that came with buying into the PL.


They don't have "responsibilities" to share their $$ with the other league teams when they face financial hardship.  There are no rules that state they have to do so at all, much less provide MORE with no strings attached like you believe.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 18, 2020, 03:45:30 PM

They don't have "responsibilities" to share their $$ with the other league teams when they face financial hardship.  There are no rules that state they have to do so at all, much less provide MORE with no strings attached like you believe.

They are part of the league system and all clubs in the system have responsibilities to it. Again, if the investors don't want to be in a business that is connected to dozens of other similar businesses, invest elsewhere.

This virus has exposed many issues in our societies that have fattened the coffers of bigger businesses while bankrupting smaller ones. Sorry, but it's not in my nature to side with the Glazers and Man United any more than with Amazon and Bezos. The Football League predates the foreign investors. They chose to buy into symbiotic relationships. Just because they brought wealth to their seats doesn't guarantee some right to suck up even more wealth and control. If they want their developmental league to be free and the right to monopolize the market, go back to the NFL where we've codified monopolies. Otherwise, GTFO.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 18, 2020, 04:30:19 PM
They are part of the league system and all clubs in the system have responsibilities to it. Again, if the investors don't want to be in a business that is connected to dozens of other similar businesses, invest elsewhere.

This virus has exposed many issues in our societies that have fattened the coffers of bigger businesses while bankrupting smaller ones. Sorry, but it's not in my nature to side with the Glazers and Man United any more than with Amazon and Bezos. The Football League predates the foreign investors. They chose to buy into symbiotic relationships. Just because they brought wealth to their seats doesn't guarantee some right to suck up even more wealth and control. If they want their developmental league to be free and the right to monopolize the market, go back to the NFL where we've codified monopolies. Otherwise, GTFO.


Really all your answers come down to tradition.  Talking about "responsibilities" where no such responsibilities are codified in any way, is not really how business works.  What works is giving up something to get something.  Of course that doesn't mean the initial proposal was great, but the conversation will start and likely change the way things are done. 

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 18, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
They are part of the league system and all clubs in the system have responsibilities to it. Again, if the investors don't want to be in a business that is connected to dozens of other similar businesses, invest elsewhere.

This virus has exposed many issues in our societies that have fattened the coffers of bigger businesses while bankrupting smaller ones. Sorry, but it's not in my nature to side with the Glazers and Man United any more than with Amazon and Bezos. The Football League predates the foreign investors. They chose to buy into symbiotic relationships. Just because they brought wealth to their seats doesn't guarantee some right to suck up even more wealth and control. If they want their developmental league to be free and the right to monopolize the market, go back to the NFL where we've codified monopolies. Otherwise, GTFO.

This is basically an "unwritten rules" argument. You're inventing responsibilities and relationships that simply do not exist. If these connections and liabilities were in place, as you suggest, there would be nothing to negotiate here. The fact negotiations are taking place is because nothing exists that says the owners of PL clubs have a responsibility to prop up or bail out failing lower-tier clubs.

What's in your nature is irrelevant here. What you think is fair or just is irrelevant here.
Do I think the billionaire PL owners should help out the lower leagues? Absolutely. But what I think is right or what I think they should do is entirely different than your suggestion that they're somehow obligated to do it. They are not. And because they're not is why this is a negotiation. If you want to PL owners to hand over billions of dollars to prop up other clubs, you need to offer them more than a guilt trip. You need to make it in their interests.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 18, 2020, 08:20:26 PM
Do your part or GTFO. If they aren't willing to play their part in the Football League, they should invest their money elsewhere. No surprise that all of this is stemming from two Americans.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 19, 2020, 07:37:40 AM
Do your part or GTFO. If they aren't willing to play their part in the Football League, they should invest their money elsewhere. No surprise that all of this is stemming from two Americans.

What "part?"  Where does it say anywhere that their "part" is to provide $$$ to the lower league teams so they can survive AND expect nothing in return?

Again, I don't have a problem if you say the proposal put forward by Liverpool and United isn't a good one.  But the idea that they should willingly give up $$$, and get nothing in return (elimination of League Cup, 18 team Premier League), isn't a good one either.  And that idea won't be supported by the other PL owners either, regardless if they are American or not.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on October 19, 2020, 02:19:08 PM
What "part?"  Where does it say anywhere that their "part" is to provide $$$ to the lower league teams so they can survive AND expect nothing in return?

Again, I don't have a problem if you say the proposal put forward by Liverpool and United isn't a good one.  But the idea that they should willingly give up $$$, and get nothing in return (elimination of League Cup, 18 team Premier League), isn't a good one either.  And that idea won't be supported by the other PL owners either, regardless if they are American or not.

What part has "The Big Six" done to stake their own claim to the league? United haven't won since 2013, Arsenal haven't even been in the top four since that time, let alone won the league. What's it been now, over 15 years? Spurs have quite literally not won a top flight title in over half a century and before Klopp, Liverpool was garbage for years.

I don't mind getting rid of the League Cup. FA cup is more than enough, but if they had it their way, Leicester gets relegated before they win the title, it's just a mess. Soccer doesn't have a minor league system. Academy games are "meh" you'd be compromising the quality of the premier league if those lower leagues die out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 20, 2020, 08:39:01 AM
The plot thickens:

@SkySportsNews
BREAKING: Liverpool and Manchester United among top clubs in talks over bombshell plot to join new FIFA-backed 'European Premier League'
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 20, 2020, 08:53:09 AM
The plot thickens:

@SkySportsNews
BREAKING: Liverpool and Manchester United among top clubs in talks over bombshell plot to join new FIFA-backed 'European Premier League'

Now THIS is something that I think is a terrible idea.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 20, 2020, 08:56:31 AM
Here's the full story:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12109174/european-premier-league-liverpool-and-manchester-united-in-talks-for-fifa-backed-tournament
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 20, 2020, 09:05:02 AM
So a Champions League knockoff backed by FIFA that sees those corrupt idiots wet their beak instead of UEFA. Classic.  And I agree with others, just a horrible idea. You’d have to also think that supporters would balk pretty aggressively at this
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on October 20, 2020, 09:20:07 AM
So a Champions League knockoff backed by FIFA that sees those corrupt idiots wet their beak instead of UEFA. Classic.  And I agree with others, just a horrible idea. You’d have to also think that supporters would balk pretty aggressively at this

Near universal negative reaction to this already.

I think there's a fair deal to be had in England, but just so many competing interests. Not sure this is the best leverage play, however.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 20, 2020, 11:47:28 AM
ManU currently sits 15th in the table (it's early), they probably wouldnt even qualify for this corrupt venture.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 11:55:32 AM
ManU currently sits 15th in the table (it's early), they probably wouldnt even qualify for this corrupt venture.

Well first, you're looking at the table before Halloween, when it shouldn't have any consideration before Christmas.  Second, they have a game in hand, win that, and they're 7th, one spot ahead of the first team to ever blow a 3 goal lead in the final 8 minutes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 20, 2020, 12:10:28 PM
Well first, you're looking at the table before Halloween, when it shouldn't have any consideration before Christmas.  Second, they have a game in hand, win that, and they're 7th, one spot ahead of the first team to ever blow a 3 goal lead in the final 8 minutes.

I'm sorry. Did you just try to prop up ManU in the same breath as knocking the team that just slaughtered them 6-1 on the road?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 12:14:03 PM
I'm sorry. Did you just try to prop up ManU in the same breath as knocking the team that just slaughtered them 6-1 on the road?

Not at all, I hate United, thought that result was hilarious, and think they'll get thrashed today, but the fact remains that should they win their game in hand (against Burnley), they would be ahead of that team that beat them 6-1, partially due to a pretty BS red.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 20, 2020, 01:19:02 PM
Not at all, I hate United, thought that result was hilarious, and think they'll get thrashed today, but the fact remains that should they win their game in hand (against Burnley), they would be ahead of that team that beat them 6-1, partially due to a pretty BS red.

Not sure there's any wiggle room for a red when you smack an opponent in the face, regardless of how soft it may have been or how much said opponent flops.
But yeah, without that red it would have been a mere 4-1 home loss. Hang a banner.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 01:36:54 PM
Not sure there's any wiggle room for a red when you smack an opponent in the face, regardless of how soft it may have been or how much said opponent flops.
But yeah, without that red it would have been a mere 4-1 home loss. Hang a banner.

Well, it was 2-1 when the red was issued.  I also have no problem giving Martial a red, but, if you're going to do that, there is no reason that Lamela shouldn't have gotten one as well. Down 2-1 with both teams playing with 10 with an hour to go is a whole different scenario than down 2-1 and a man down with an hour to go.  Also, scoring 4 goals in a hour against 10 men is not overly impressive, scoring 3 in 8 minutes against 11 to salvage a point, very impressive.

To be clear, I think it is objectively funny whenever a "big" team losses big.  Whether it is United losing to Spurs, Liverpool losing to Villa, or City losing to Leicester, it's funny.  However, I can also look at teams that I don't like and objectively say that they either benefited or got screwed over by a refs decision. I hate Liverpool almost as much as I hate United, but I can still say that they got screwed over both when Pickford wasn't sent off, and when Mane was ruled offsides.  Still hate the club, but they did get screwed by Oliver.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 20, 2020, 01:47:07 PM
Well first, you're looking at the table before Halloween, when it shouldn't have any consideration before Christmas.  Second, they have a game in hand, win that, and they're 7th, one spot ahead of the first team to ever blow a 3 goal lead in the final 8 minutes.

Apparently sarcasm isn't your strong point.

This new super league has proposed a 20 year no relegation and size of club over results.  #2 guarantees united a spot.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Apparently sarcasm isn't your strong point.

This new super league has proposed a 20 year no relegation and size of club over results.  #2 guarantees united a spot.

Think you might have misinterpreted my comments.  In no way, am I in support of this Super League.  However, the current table (which you brought up) is in no way relevant.  I understand that you just wanted to take a shot at a rival club, but you then have to understand that once you do that, you open yourself up to having to deal with shots fired at your club.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 20, 2020, 02:05:56 PM
Think you might have misinterpreted my comments.  In no way, am I in support of this Super League.  However, the current table (which you brought up) is in no way relevant.  I understand that you just wanted to take a shot at a rival club, but you then have to understand that once you do that, you open yourself up to having to deal with shots fired at your club.

Dude.  The sarcasm was using the current table as my "argument."  No chit its not relevant right now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 02:10:22 PM
Dude.  The sarcasm was using the current table as my "argument."  No chit its not relevant right now.

I understand what aspect of your comment was sarcasm.  I also understand that your comment was meant to be a shot at United.  Do you understand that once you start taking shots at other teams, you open yourself up to shots about your team?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 02:47:39 PM
Okay, who had Ethan Horvath getting the first American goal in the Champions League this year?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 20, 2020, 04:13:34 PM
Well, it was 2-1 when the red was issued.  I also have no problem giving Martial a red, but, if you're going to do that, there is no reason that Lamela shouldn't have gotten one as well.

Utter nonsense.
This bad take gets a red card.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 04:20:18 PM
Utter nonsense.
This bad take gets a red card.

What about my post was incorrect?  It's undisputable that the score was 2-1 Spurs when the red card was issued.  It's also clear as day that Lamela made contact with Martial's throat/face before Martial made contact with Lamela's.  Contact was light by both, but if you're going to show red for one, you should show red to both.  It's cute watching you Spurs fanboys stick up for each other though.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 20, 2020, 05:00:39 PM
What about my post was incorrect?  It's undisputable that the score was 2-1 Spurs when the red card was issued.  It's also clear as day that Lamela made contact with Martial's throat/face before Martial made contact with Lamela's.  Contact was light by both, but if you're going to show red for one, you should show red to both.  It's cute watching you Spurs fanboys stick up for each other though.

Suggesting that Lamela shoving Martial's chest (not face and throat, see below) while they jostled for position before a corner - when such contact is routine - is somehow the same as Martial intentionally popping him in the chin muy esutpido, amigo.

(https://img.yqqlm.com/index/index/getInterUrl?uicrIvZQ=c77205fc8cb5561fd69a8dc1425bd64a)



Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Are you really trying to suggest that contact wasn't made with his neck, which still falls under "violent conduct"?  Careful Pak, your biases are showing
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 05:13:55 PM
https://www.facebook.com/ESPNFC/photos/a.403514944820/10158290776099821/?type=3&theater

https://www.the-sun.com/sport/premier-league/1579116/manchester-united-martial-sent-off-tottenham-lamela/

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/anthony-martial-red-card-manchester-united-erik-lamela-tottenham-jose-mourinho-676935

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8804607/MARK-CLATTENBURG-Id-told-Anthony-Martial-Erik-Lamela-stop-behaving-like-children.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 20, 2020, 05:20:22 PM
Are you really trying to suggest that contact wasn't made with his neck, which still falls under "violent conduct"?  Careful Pak, your biases are showing

Look, you can see whatever you want to see. Makes no difference to me. Nobody in their right mind believes what Lamela did was deserving of a red card. That kind of thing happens regularly before corners.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 05:26:58 PM
Look, you can see whatever you want to see. Makes no difference to me. Nobody in their right mind believes what Lamela did was deserving of a red card. That kind of thing happens regularly before corners.

I agree, if I were a ref in that game, I wouldn't have sent either off, my whole point was that neither action was more egregious than the other.  I think Clattenburg nails it, both should have been cautioned for their "childish behavior", and the game should have proceeded 11 a side.  I just think it's extremely biased to view the incident through the lens that you are (which is fine, you're a fan, fans are supposed to be biased).  Suggesting that someone's opinion that is different than yours is "utter nonsense" shows an aversion to objectivity in this situation.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 20, 2020, 05:44:48 PM
I agree, if I were a ref in that game, I wouldn't have sent either off, my whole point was that neither action was more egregious than the other.  I think Clattenburg nails it, both should have been cautioned for their "childish behavior", and the game should have proceeded 11 a side.  I just think it's extremely biased to view the incident through the lens that you are (which is fine, you're a fan, fans are supposed to be biased).  Suggesting that someone's opinion that is different than yours is "utter nonsense" shows an aversion to objectivity in this situation.

It's not biased to say what Lamela did wasn't deserving of a red card. In fact, you just said what Lamela did wasn't deserving of a red card. We agree!
It's also not biased to say (as I did) the referee doesn't have much wiggle room on that call.
Here's the FA rule book definition of violent conduct:

"In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face* with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible."

It's textbook. Martial was not challenging for the ball and deliberately struck Lamela in the face with his hand. The only possible argument is whether it was negligible or not, but that's a tough call to ask an official to make after a player very intentionally pops another player in the face.
Again, suggesting their respective actions were no worse than the other is a bad take, with all due respect.

* No mention of neck, I note.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 05:56:04 PM
Both incidents happened while the ball was out of play, so I'm not sure that you can claim that Lamela was "challenging for the ball" and wasn't "deliberate" either.

And there lies part of the problem.  The FA rulebook has slightly different nomenclature than FIFA's rulebook, which is slightly different than the IFAB rulebook.  This is why common sense needs to be used.  Neither should have been sent off for "violent conduct" because neither's conduct was inherently violent.  Don't know if anyone saw it, but in the Leeds Wolves game, Raul Jimenez "could" have been sent off for a situation that looked very similar to what Son did to get sent off against Chelsea last year.  By the letter of the law he should have walked.  The Aguero situation with "contact with a referee" over the weekend has made quite a few headlines.  By the letter of the law he should have walked.  I think the correct decision was made in both situations.  If the ref followed the letter of the law 100% of the time, games would consistently end 9 a side.  Given the situation of the game, a caution to both players would seem to be the most appropriate action.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 20, 2020, 05:58:17 PM
Both incidents happened while the ball was out of play, so I'm not sure that you can claim that Lamela was "challenging for the ball" and wasn't "deliberate" either.

And there lies part of the problem.  The FA rulebook has slightly different nomenclature than FIFA's rulebook, which is slightly different than the IFAB rulebook.  This is why common sense needs to be used.  Neither should have been sent off for "violent conduct" because neither's conduct was inherently violent.  Don't know if anyone saw it, but in the Leeds Wolves game, Raul Jimenez "could" have been sent off for a situation that looked very similar to what Son did to get sent off against Chelsea last year.  By the letter of the law he should have walked.  The Aguero situation with "contact with a referee" over the weekend has made quite a few headlines.  By the letter of the law he should have walked.  I think the correct decision was made in both situations.  If the ref followed the letter of the law 100% of the time, games would consistently end 9 a side.  Given the situation of the game, a caution to both players would seem to be the most appropriate action.

So players would continue to break laws even knowing they were being enforced 100% of the time?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 06:05:45 PM
So players would continue to break laws even knowing they were being enforced 100% of the time?

Forgive me for answering a question with a question, but do you think it would be appropriate for all throw-ins to be taken exactly where the ball went out of play?  Do you think it would be appropriate for all free kicks to be taken exactly where the offense was committed, even if the foul was committed in the fouled teams half, and they want to proceed with the game?  By the letter of the law they have to be, however, it is generally accepted that stopping play and going back to make sure that play resumes exactly where it stops is unnecessary and disrupts the flow of the game.

You also again run into problems with different governing bodies.  The FA is only for England, once you get to international games, refs would have to switch to the FIFA rulebook, which is problematic since most referring clinics use the IFAB rulebook as a default.  It would be a step in the right direction of everyone used the exact same rulebook.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 20, 2020, 06:14:15 PM
Both incidents happened while the ball was out of play, so I'm not sure that you can claim that Lamela was "challenging for the ball" and wasn't "deliberate" either.

And there lies part of the problem.  The FA rulebook has slightly different nomenclature than FIFA's rulebook, which is slightly different than the IFAB rulebook.  This is why common sense needs to be used.  Neither should have been sent off for "violent conduct" because neither's conduct was inherently violent.  Don't know if anyone saw it, but in the Leeds Wolves game, Raul Jimenez "could" have been sent off for a situation that looked very similar to what Son did to get sent off against Chelsea last year.  By the letter of the law he should have walked.  The Aguero situation with "contact with a referee" over the weekend has made quite a few headlines.  By the letter of the law he should have walked.  I think the correct decision was made in both situations.  If the ref followed the letter of the law 100% of the time, games would consistently end 9 a side.  Given the situation of the game, a caution to both players would seem to be the most appropriate action.

Last response and I'll let this die its much deserved death.

If you handed out reds every time deliberate contact occurred as teams lined up for a corner (or any set piece), you'd literally be throwing out 4-5 players at a time. Yes, Lamela pushed Martial. That kind of jostling is commonplace. Smacking an opponent in the face is not. It's a key difference you continue to ignore.
And the FIFA rule book is irrelevant. The PL doesn't play under FIFA rules. It plays under FA rules.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 06:17:42 PM
Last response and I'll let this die its much deserved death.

If you handed out reds every time deliberate contact occurred as teams lined up for a corner (or any set piece), you'd literally be throwing out 4-5 players at a time. Yes, Lamela pushed Martial. That kind of jostling is commonplace. Smacking an opponent in the face is not. It's a key difference you continue to ignore.
And the FIFA rule book is irrelevant. The PL doesn't play under FIFA rules. It plays under FA rules.

Then why are refs trained with the IFAB rulebook?  Because the top refs (which all aspire to be) ref outside England too.  Michael Oliver, who was part of the Merseyside Darby debacle is reffing a Champions League game tomorrow.  FA rulebook is irrelevant in the Champions League.

Edit: and I'm not ignoring Martial's misconduct, I'm just stating that IMO, it is the same level of "violent" as Lamela's elbowing him in the throat, which I believe your bias is preventing you from seeing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 20, 2020, 08:02:21 PM
Forgive me for answering a question with a question, but do you think it would be appropriate for all throw-ins to be taken exactly where the ball went out of play?  Do you think it would be appropriate for all free kicks to be taken exactly where the offense was committed, even if the foul was committed in the fouled teams half, and they want to proceed with the game?  By the letter of the law they have to be, however, it is generally accepted that stopping play and going back to make sure that play resumes exactly where it stops is unnecessary and disrupts the flow of the game.

You also again run into problems with different governing bodies.  The FA is only for England, once you get to international games, refs would have to switch to the FIFA rulebook, which is problematic since most referring clinics use the IFAB rulebook as a default.  It would be a step in the right direction of everyone used the exact same rulebook.

I didn't say anything about what calls are "appropriate."

I asked if fouls/cards were called based on the letter of the law, whether you think players behavior would change.

That's very different than spot of a throw or kick.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 08:31:23 PM
I didn't say anything about what calls are "appropriate."

I asked if fouls/cards were called based on the letter of the law, whether you think players behavior would change.

That's very different than spot of a throw or kick.

Very minimally, if at all.  Things happen at a very fast pace.  There are so many examples in any game where a boot is raised while a head is simultaneously lowered, and both are going for the ball.  There may be no intent, but if the laws were followed to a T, "A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent must be sanctioned as serious foul play" (IFAB laws of the game) and would therefore be a sending off.  The way players dive for headers, a foot wouldn't even have to be raised very high.

Similar, but not perfect example since I know you're a Spurs fan, regarding handball.  Newcastle was gifted a VAR stoppage time penalty against Spurs, and after converting tied the game 1-1.  Following the letter of the laws, it was absolutely 100% the correct call.  I didn't think it should be a penalty, a lot of others didn't think it should be a penalty.  The backlash was so severe that the FA announced that they would be softening the handball rules in the middle of the season, something that is rarely, if ever, done. 

So many laws are written so that they can be interpreted with common sense in mind, so common sense should be used.  Dier didn't commit a handball, and if Martial's offense was considered "violent" (it wasn't IMO), then so should have Lamela's.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 20, 2020, 09:50:48 PM
Very minimally, if at all.  Things happen at a very fast pace.  There are so many examples in any game where a boot is raised while a head is simultaneously lowered, and both are going for the ball.  There may be no intent, but if the laws were followed to a T, "A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent must be sanctioned as serious foul play" (IFAB laws of the game) and would therefore be a sending off.  The way players dive for headers, a foot wouldn't even have to be raised very high.

Similar, but not perfect example since I know you're a Spurs fan, regarding handball.  Newcastle was gifted a VAR stoppage time penalty against Spurs, and after converting tied the game 1-1.  Following the letter of the laws, it was absolutely 100% the correct call.  I didn't think it should be a penalty, a lot of others didn't think it should be a penalty.  The backlash was so severe that the FA announced that they would be softening the handball rules in the middle of the season, something that is rarely, if ever, done. 

So many laws are written so that they can be interpreted with common sense in mind, so common sense should be used.  Dier didn't commit a handball, and if Martial's offense was considered "violent" (it wasn't IMO), then so should have Lamela's.

If players won't change their own behaviors knowing how the rules are called, then that's on them. So what? They could, and perhaps should, call rules to the letter.

Just so you're clear on my stance with Martial/Lamela - no, I don't think it should have been red. But it was clear Martials infraction was incontrovertibly intentional vs Lamelas.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 20, 2020, 10:08:55 PM
If players won't change their own behaviors knowing how the rules are called, then that's on them. So what? They could, and perhaps should, call rules to the letter.

Just so you're clear on my stance with Martial/Lamela - no, I don't think it should have been red. But it was clear Martials infraction was incontrovertibly intentional vs Lamelas.

How about this then; ball gets sent long, two players go up for it, knock heads, go down.  Both challenging for the ball, the fact that they knock heads and get injured would by default be endangering an opponent.  By the letter of the law, they have both committed an act that would be punishable by red card. 

You want players to start wearing helmets?  Stop going up for headers? Stop playing long balls?  Or maybe, refs use common sense, see that both players were going for the ball, and there was clearly no intent to endanger an opponent.  Why can't this common sense be used everywhere? 

The laws were not written to be followed as strictly as you are suggesting.  Case and point, the "field of play" section gives the dimensions that field must be.  The dimensions that they give are a range.  Fields can be anywhere from 100 to 130 yards long, and anywhere from 50 to 100 yards wide.  Think about that; they're giving you a range of 50 yards for acceptable width.  If they had wanted everything to be followed as strictly as you are suggesting you would not get that kind of flexibility.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 20, 2020, 11:11:56 PM
How about this then; ball gets sent long, two players go up for it, knock heads, go down.  Both challenging for the ball, the fact that they knock heads and get injured would by default be endangering an opponent.  By the letter of the law, they have both committed an act that would be punishable by red card. 

You want players to start wearing helmets?  Stop going up for headers? Stop playing long balls?  Or maybe, refs use common sense, see that both players were going for the ball, and there was clearly no intent to endanger an opponent.  Why can't this common sense be used everywhere? 

The laws were not written to be followed as strictly as you are suggesting.  Case and point, the "field of play" section gives the dimensions that field must be.  The dimensions that they give are a range.  Fields can be anywhere from 100 to 130 yards long, and anywhere from 50 to 100 yards wide.  Think about that; they're giving you a range of 50 yards for acceptable width.  If they had wanted everything to be followed as strictly as you are suggesting you would not get that kind of flexibility.

If rules are enforced differently, in any way, players adapt or get left behind. That's how it is and how it should be.

You're nuts to believe otherwise.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 21, 2020, 08:51:11 AM
If rules are enforced differently, in any way, players adapt or get left behind. That's how it is and how it should be.

You're nuts to believe otherwise.

So you want the laws to be enforced much more strictly, but not all the laws, just some of them. That's never gonna happen, and no offense at this point it just sounds like you're complaining just to complain. Subjectivity is always going to be a part of the game as long as refs are human.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 21, 2020, 10:12:18 AM
So you want the laws to be enforced much more strictly, but not all the laws, just some of them. That's never gonna happen, and no offense at this point it just sounds like you're complaining just to complain. Subjectivity is always going to be a part of the game as long as refs are human.

Go back and re-read. You seem to be confused about my position as I never said I wanted them to be enforced any differently than they are now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 21, 2020, 10:16:40 AM
So you're really digging in this hard over a hypothetical?  ::) Okay ::)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on October 21, 2020, 11:15:25 AM
I think we can all agree that Pickford and Richarlison should be jailed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 21, 2020, 01:28:04 PM
I think we can all agree that Pickford and Richarlison should be jailed.

Pickford should rightly have his leg amputated below the knee.  Its only fair
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 24, 2020, 10:27:21 AM
The Vessel in Hudson Yards was ready for El Clásico today:

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 24, 2020, 07:51:38 PM
It was in a losing effort, but Dest was more than solid today in his first Classico.  First time I've watched him at Barca.  No reason (assuming he's healthy) that he's not the starting right back for the USMNT for the next decade plus.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 25, 2020, 10:36:13 AM
I don’t need to see Fulham in the PL ever again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on October 25, 2020, 11:42:56 PM
I don’t need to see Fulham in the PL ever again.

 :(

I think Fulham in the right circumstances could be successful. This iteration under Scott Parker almost certainly will not be. I'll admit they are getting slightly better every game but the talent and tactics are both not good enough
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Johnny B on October 26, 2020, 12:55:11 AM
of course dest was born in Europe. jeez we almost never have a u.s. born star. Dont get me wrong glad we have em just amazing in a massive country we almost never see a star. pelesic is like 21 and already considered best usa player of all time. and hes just soldid midfeilder for chelsea lol. he wasnt even born here either. Us just for whatever reason,maybe cost to play as a kid here in clubs, cant get stars
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 26, 2020, 04:19:38 AM
of course dest was born in Europe. jeez we almost never have a u.s. born star. Dont get me wrong glad we have em just amazing in a massive country we almost never see a star. pelesic is like 21 and already considered best usa player of all time. and hes just soldid midfeilder for chelsea lol. he wasnt even born here either. Us just for whatever reason,maybe cost to play as a kid here in clubs, cant get stars

Yes. Pulisic was born in the exotic foreign land known as “Pennsylvania.”
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 26, 2020, 11:57:42 AM
of course dest was born in Europe. jeez we almost never have a u.s. born star. Dont get me wrong glad we have em just amazing in a massive country we almost never see a star. pelesic is like 21 and already considered best usa player of all time. and hes just soldid midfeilder for chelsea lol. he wasnt even born here either. Us just for whatever reason,maybe cost to play as a kid here in clubs, cant get stars

“Pelesic”

There’s another US kid on Barcelona, Konrad De La Fuente, but he was born in South America...oh wait, he’s from Miami.

And that USMNT kid from Mexico who is playing alongside Ronaldo at Juventus. Oh wait, that’s McKinnie who is from Dallas.

There are American born kids playing for Bayern and RB Leipzig.

If you think Pulisic is just another midfielder for Chelsea, I don’t know what to say about your soccer viewing abilities. Lampard didn’t care for him and Pulisic forced his way into playing time and earned the 10 shirt this year. When he’s been healthy, he’s been a bonfide EPL stud.

But lol that doesn’t fit your narrative lol.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 26, 2020, 11:59:15 AM
anyone else enjoying the current EPL table? Only three of the Big Six in the top 10 and three sides that were in the Championship either last season or the previous season (and Palace, who had to fight off relegation last year).

1 Everton
2 Liverpool
3 Aston Villa
4 Leicester City
5 Leeds United
6 Southampton
7 Crystal Palace
8 Wolverhampton Wanderers
9 Chelsea
10 Arsenal

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 26, 2020, 12:00:36 PM
“Pelesic”

There’s another US kid on Barcelona, Konrad De La Fuente, but he was born in South America...oh wait, he’s from Miami.

And that USMNT kid from Mexico who is playing alongside Ronaldo at Juventus. Oh wait, that’s McKinnie who is from Dallas.

There are American born kids playing for Bayern and RB Leipzig.

If you think Pulisic is just another midfielder for Chelsea, I don’t know what to say about your soccer viewing abilities. Lampard didn’t care for him and Pulisic forced his way into playing time and earned the 10 shirt this year. When he’s been healthy, he’s been a bonfide EPL stud.

But lol that doesn’t fit your narrative lol.

I won't hate on a guy who obviously doesn't have knowledge on a topic. But a quick Google search would have demonstrated the many USA-born youths playing in high level leagues
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 26, 2020, 12:00:55 PM
anyone else enjoying the current EPL table? Only three of the Big Six in the top 10 and three sides that were in the Championship either last season or the previous season (and Palace, who had to fight off relegation last year).

1 Everton
2 Liverpool
3 Aston Villa
4 Leicester City
5 Leeds United
6 Southampton
7 Crystal Palace
8 Wolverhampton Wanderers
9 Chelsea
10 Arsenal

Careful, DJO doesnt approve of use of the table this early in the season.   ::) ::)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 26, 2020, 12:17:25 PM
anyone else enjoying the current EPL table? Only three of the Big Six in the top 10 and three sides that were in the Championship either last season or the previous season (and Palace, who had to fight off relegation last year).

1 Everton
2 Liverpool
3 Aston Villa
4 Leicester City
5 Leeds United
6 Southampton
7 Crystal Palace
8 Wolverhampton Wanderers
9 Chelsea
10 Arsenal

Update when games played is equal.

Come on Spurs!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 26, 2020, 12:18:50 PM
Careful, DJO doesnt approve of use of the table this early in the season.   ::) ::)

Noticing quirks in the table after 5 or 6 games is a bit different than using it to take a shot at another club.  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 26, 2020, 12:26:57 PM
Update when games played is equal.

Come on Spurs!

Obviously, it's going to change but early on it's fun to see a shakeup to the usual. Plus, Villa has a game in hand.

The one that disappoints me is Sheffield United. Awful so far.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 26, 2020, 05:59:17 PM
anyone else enjoying the current EPL table? Only three of the Big Six in the top 10 and three sides that were in the Championship either last season or the previous season (and Palace, who had to fight off relegation last year).

1 Everton
2 Liverpool
3 Aston Villa
4 Leicester City
5 Tottenham
6 Leeds United
7 Southampton
8 Crystal Palace
9 Wolverhampton Wanderers
10 Chelsea

FIFY.   Arse, united, city all bottom half teams. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Johnny B on October 26, 2020, 06:49:51 PM
“Pelesic”

There’s another US kid on Barcelona, Konrad De La Fuente, but he was born in South America...oh wait, he’s from Miami.

And that USMNT kid from Mexico who is playing alongside Ronaldo at Juventus. Oh wait, that’s McKinnie who is from Dallas.

There are American born kids playing for Bayern and RB Leipzig.

If you think Pulisic is just another midfielder for Chelsea, I don’t know what to say about your soccer viewing abilities. Lampard didn’t care for him and Pulisic forced his way into playing time and earned the 10 shirt this year. When he’s been healthy, he’s been a bonfide EPL stud.

But lol that doesn’t fit your narrative lol.
what narrarive lol? i just dont know wat im talkin about
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 26, 2020, 07:33:44 PM
anyone else enjoying the current EPL table? Only three of the Big Six in the top 10 and three sides that were in the Championship either last season or the previous season (and Palace, who had to fight off relegation last year).

1 Everton
2 Liverpool
3 Aston Villa
4 Leicester City
5 Leeds United
6 Southampton
7 Crystal Palace
8 Wolverhampton Wanderers
9 Chelsea
10 Arsenal

Spurs up to 5th
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 30, 2020, 08:43:58 AM
Nice little Diego Flashback Friday came across my way:

https://twitter.com/DiarioOle/status/1322025973051723776?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 31, 2020, 10:53:20 AM
First Bundesliga goal of the season for Josh Sargent.

https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1322566405615685635?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 02, 2020, 10:33:11 AM
anyone else enjoying the current EPL table? Only three of the Big Six in the top 10 and three sides that were in the Championship either last season or the previous season (and Palace, who had to fight off relegation last year).

1 Everton
2 Liverpool
3 Aston Villa
4 Leicester City
5 Leeds United
6 Southampton
7 Crystal Palace
8 Wolverhampton Wanderers
9 Chelsea
10 Arsenal

And one week later, 70% of the teams in the top half of the table finished last season in the top half, including 5 of the "big 6". 

The three teams that finished last year top half that are currently outside? Man U, who are admittedly a train wreck domestically, but it's clear to see that the talent is there to get it together (see European results).  Sheffield, who was pretty much universally accepted was punching way above their weight last year.  And Burnley, who were not only punching above their weight last year, but were also given no money to spend in the transfer window, and therefore, brought in no new players.

The three teams replacing them in the top half?  Last year's 11th place finisher Southampton, last years 12th place finisher Everton, and the early surprise of the season Villa who have also now dropped two games in a row. 

This is not meant as a "OP was stupid" kind of response, the table was interesting last week, so you can chill Zig, this is meant as a "this early in the season, a lot of things change on a week-to-week basis" kind of response, there are all of three points separating 3rd and 13th, lets let a bit more season play out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 02, 2020, 11:55:41 AM
First Bundesliga goal of the season for Josh Sargent.

https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1322566405615685635?s=19

No clue how he stayed onside, but finished short side with a quick lash was a savvy finish. I hope he can move to a better club than Werner Bremen in the short term, but his progression is exciting.  The anti-Jordan Morris
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on November 02, 2020, 12:02:31 PM
No clue how he stayed onside, but finished short side with a quick lash was a savvy finish. I hope he can move to a better club than Werner Bremen in the short term, but his progression is exciting.  The anti-Jordan Morris

Yep, it's not an ideal (offensive) club right now for a finishing striker.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 02, 2020, 12:23:13 PM
No clue how he stayed onside, but finished short side with a quick lash was a savvy finish. I hope he can move to a better club than Werner Bremen in the short term, but his progression is exciting.  The anti-Jordan Morris

Tough angle to tell with certainty, but he looked offsides.  Might have been the middle defender that kept him on, he was clearly ahead of the near defender.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on November 02, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
Manchester City v Liverpool this weekend is on Peacock Premium.

I have streaming premium fatigue.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on November 02, 2020, 03:51:43 PM
Manchester City v Liverpool this weekend is on Peacock Premium.

I have streaming premium fatigue.

If they had a decent app, fine. But the quality blows, no way to rewind, and half the time the streams don't start when the game does.

NBC used to be the gold standard for coverage. Such a shame.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 02, 2020, 03:54:38 PM
If they had a decent app, fine. But the quality blows, no way to rewind, and half the time the streams don't start when the game does.

NBC used to be the gold standard for coverage. Such a shame.

I wonder how long before NBC realizes that US soccer fans arent willing to shell out for premium games?  Its still a growing sport, need to get as many eyeballs as possible, not put up more barriers.

At least it's not PPV like in the UK...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 02, 2020, 04:33:49 PM
wife wins the household battle of Leeds/Leicester today. Jamie Vardy was having a party.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 02, 2020, 08:49:25 PM
I wonder how long before NBC realizes that US soccer fans arent willing to shell out for premium games?  Its still a growing sport, need to get as many eyeballs as possible, not put up more barriers.

At least it's not PPV like in the UK...

Between the Peacock debacle and CBS putting all the CL games on their dumbass app, networks doing their best to be the iceberg as US soccer consumption and viewing options were making Titanic strides forward
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on November 03, 2020, 12:05:51 PM
USMNT 24 player roster for November. (Ten new players)

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2020/11/usmnt-roster-announcement-berhalter-24-players-november-camp-friendlies-wales-panama
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on November 03, 2020, 12:25:11 PM
USMNT 24 player roster for November. (Ten new players)

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2020/11/usmnt-roster-announcement-berhalter-24-players-november-camp-friendlies-wales-panama

0 MLS players, what a time to be alive!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 03, 2020, 12:39:44 PM
Very interesting roster for the US.  Odunze is an interesting story given that he is the child of immigrants and spent most of his life in the UK and Canada, but has represented the US for a long time already.

Musah is even more fascinating, his mom was on vacation in NYC when he was born. Spent most of his life in Italy before moving to the UK to join Arsenal’s academy. While I get there is a bit of a roadblock in terms of talent in front of him for England, it’s not like he’s not on the radar like we saw many of the Germans who play for the US in the past. He captained U-15 to U-18 squads for England. Amazing coup for the USMNT to be honest. He’s very exciting.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on November 03, 2020, 12:43:22 PM
0 MLS players, what a time to be alive!

Yes, but, there are travel restrictions from the U.S., and any MLS player would need to be from a non-playoff team.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 03, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
0 MLS players, what a time to be alive!

Was done intentionally to avoid quarantine regulations for players coming from the States. Still exciting to see. Amazing that Gio Reyna has more experience in the Champions League than for the USMNT.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 08, 2020, 01:02:07 PM
Spurs got the points they were supposed to/needed to during their "easy" stretch.

Now gotta get the points against the big boys.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 08, 2020, 10:38:17 PM
Spurs got the points they were supposed to/needed to during their "easy" stretch.

Now gotta get the points against the big boys.

Hilarious:

https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/jqfh2u/preorder_now/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share (https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/jqfh2u/preorder_now/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on November 10, 2020, 08:50:00 PM
"F.A. Chief, Greg Clarke had been called to discuss the state of soccer in the country, and ongoing concerns about coronavirus. Instead, his fumbling testimony offended Blacks, Asians, Women, and others, and cost him his job."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/sports/soccer/greg-clarke-england-FA.html#click=https://t.co/GDnjY4qIsJ
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2020, 03:48:02 PM
Positives.  With the possible exception of swapping Richards for Miazga, I think that's our first choice back line, so the fact that they all started, played 90 (or 87 for Dest) and kept a clean sheet can only been seen as good.  It's nice to see Adams and McKennie keeping the midfield humming, I think it's fair to say that that's our engine room for the next decade.

Negatives.  Questions will continue to be asked about the quality in the final 3rd.  I know there was no CP, and I've already expressed my concerns about his injury history, but there's also a gaping hole up top.  It seems like we're putting an awful lot of eggs in the Sargent basket, and 60% possession with only one shot on target against Wales, is a bad sign for when we go up against better squads.

All in all, you try not to draw any conclusions from only 90 minutes, although it was so nice to see the squad back together doing something.  Let's see what we can do against Panama.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 13, 2020, 01:34:47 PM
Robinson got beat at the back pretty regularly. His pace allowed him to get back into one of the plays, but he had a rough night defensively. I was encouraged that these guys really don't know each other. Average age of 22, held their own against a more experienced Welsh team. They maintained the bulk of possession and created some chances. I also was worried that they would try too much one-v-one because everyone would want to prove themselves, so it was nice to see them share the ball and play relatively responsibly.

Dest was really fun to watch. Did well at both ends. You can see he has that flair and creative ability we often tend to lack, especially at the fullback positions where in the past it's just been someone that can cross and has some pace (and even that is often a luxury we don't have).

The lack of attacking success I'm okay with. It was just a friendly and these kids are just getting to know each other. While they only had one shot on target, there were a number of opportunities that never manifested a shot but with time, experience, and cohesion can grow into quality chances. Some good balls that just went long or some runs that weren't made quite quick enough. That should come with time. Just need to see if Berhalter can put together a system that plays to their strengths; I've yet to see that from him at this level.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 16, 2020, 08:06:59 PM
I think the scoreline was a bit flattering today.  We were the better team, but it was by no means the rout that the final would suggest.  Was nice to see clinical finishing in the box, although there were a few gifts by the Panamanian keeper, plus our defense fell asleep on both goals conceded.  He isn't world class by any means, but John Brooks is the kind of player that makes those around him better, and should be one of the first names in the line-up if a strongest 11 is selected.  Hard to draw conclusions from such a choppy game (38 total fouls), but there continue to be positive flashes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on November 16, 2020, 08:44:06 PM
Entertaining.    Not great defending by either squad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 16, 2020, 08:52:10 PM
If you don't think those were generally good performances by a u-20/23 team (with many getting their first ever caps), I don't know what to say.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 17, 2020, 09:07:21 AM
The gap on that first goal was a massive gulf. Definitely a big defending error, but I was encouraged by the response. They dominated possession and definitely created the better opportunities. While they weren't necessarily 4 goals better, they were clearly the better side. Without Pulisic, I feel like Dest is generally the best player on the pitch. Creative, clever, and an adequate defender with plenty of pace. Lots to like from the young triangle of Gioacchini, Reyna, and Musah. I really hope Musah is here to stay. Liked Cannon better as the complimentary fullback than Robinson.

Oh...have to single out the great team goal where McKinney saved it off the line to Miazga who headed back for Gioacchini. Excellent effort and teamwork. Considering the youth and how little these guys have played together, this feels a lot like the beginnings of a golden generation.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on November 17, 2020, 12:36:07 PM
The gap on that first goal was a massive gulf. Definitely a big defending error, but I was encouraged by the response. They dominated possession and definitely created the better opportunities. While they weren't necessarily 4 goals better, they were clearly the better side. Without Pulisic, I feel like Dest is generally the best player on the pitch. Creative, clever, and an adequate defender with plenty of pace. Lots to like from the young triangle of Gioacchini, Reyna, and Musah. I really hope Musah is here to stay. Liked Cannon better as the complimentary fullback than Robinson.

Oh...have to single out the great team goal where McKinney saved it off the line to Miazga who headed back for Gioacchini. Excellent effort and teamwork. Considering the youth and how little these guys have played together, this feels a lot like the beginnings of a golden generation.

McKennie*

Sorry to play grammar police. Just a heads up in case you didn't know.

Speaking of McKennie, his improvement since the Gold Cup is staggering. I know it's a small sample but he looks far more comfortable on the ball. Still a bit too reckless with some of his challenges.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on November 21, 2020, 09:55:29 PM
As much as I had my doubts when it happened, the hiring of Jose is looking pretty OK for Spurs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 21, 2020, 11:20:16 PM
As much as I had my doubts when it happened, the hiring of Jose is looking pretty OK for Spurs.

It's too early to get excited.  But I'm excited.

Intelligent c*nts.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on November 22, 2020, 04:01:24 PM
Good fall College Soccer season coming to end...really fun action. Some leagues opted out for Spring. Some are playing split seasons.

Clemson Men ACC Champs
Florida St. Women ACC Champs
Vandy Women SEC Champs
TCU Big 12 Women's Champs

For many years some coaches have advocated for a split Fall and Spring season, long before COVID-19. Play one game a week, and eliminate mid week games. It also helps with classes, more training time, similar game totals, less injury. Split seasons could also bring more training, but less injury. NCAA's played in later Spring Weather. We'll see if it sticks moving forward in the future.



Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 22, 2020, 04:31:17 PM
Spurs top of the table.

All is going to plan.

Will be nice to go with a double in the PL and Europa.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on November 24, 2020, 08:19:15 PM
Konrad De La Fuente becomes the 7th American to play in this season's Champions League, as he gets in for Barcelona. The previous record was 6 in 2004-2005.

Sergiño Dest scores for Barcelona as well. He and De La Fuente are the first same team American pair in a Champions League game since Tim Howard and Jonathan Spector for Manchester United in 2004, the only other pair to do it.

Adams 21
De La Fuente 19
Dest 20
Horvath 25
Mckennie 22
Pulisic 22
Reyna 18

...so far.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 25, 2020, 10:35:44 AM
Maradona dead at 60.  Gotta wonder if it's related to that brain surgery he had at the beginning of the month.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/argentinian-soccer-icon-diego-maradona-dead-at-60
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 25, 2020, 10:37:28 AM
The hand of God finally got him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on November 25, 2020, 11:37:13 AM
The hand of God finally got him.

That and a sh*tload of cocaine.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Tortuga94 on November 25, 2020, 12:27:34 PM
That's too bad, 60 is way too young, but definitely abused his body with cocaine and alcohol, so I'm not surprised. If you get a chance, there's a documentary on Netflix about his time coaching in Mexico for the Sinaloa club, Dorados. It's pretty entertaining and interesting. It's in Spanish, so you have to deal with subtitles. The guy could barely walk, it's clear he was struggling physically.
He's the best soccer player I ever saw, I'm a little too young to have seen Pele, so for me it's Diego. His play at the 86 World Cup was just unreal. People, especially England fans only talk about the hand of God goal, but the 2nd one that sealed the deal against England is considered one of the greatest goals in WC history. Should have probably have won a 2nd world cup in 1990. Argentina were better than the West German team that won it that year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on November 28, 2020, 05:51:45 PM

https://twitter.com/si_soccer/status/1332392475772772353?s=19

Big time finish from Rose Lavelle yesterday in 2-0 dub over Netherlands. A bit rusty, if uneven play for USWNT, but very convincing win over World No. 4.

Nice to see the Mewis sisters play together, snd, some of the younger players get some of their first time. Sophia Smith is a player.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 05, 2020, 06:05:04 PM
Some nice goals today:

Pulisic:

https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1335343172361261058?s=19

McKennie:

https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1335294801844068353?s=19

Reyna:

https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1335251114489425920?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 06, 2020, 12:30:32 PM
North London remains lilywhite!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 06, 2020, 05:00:34 PM
Not a Spurs supporter, but I love Jose and think football, especially English football, is better with him at the helm of a club playing well. We all know his lifecycle, but having Spurs make a run at a title and other silverware would be amazing both in the sense that people have claimed he’s lost his touch and that he would be doing it at a club like Tottenham and not a big money behemoth like in his past
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 06, 2020, 05:07:21 PM
North London remains lilywhite!

FA Cup run was a mirage.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 06, 2020, 05:35:52 PM
Not a Spurs supporter, but I love Jose and think football, especially English football, is better with him at the helm of a club playing well. We all know his lifecycle, but having Spurs make a run at a title and other silverware would be amazing both in the sense that people have claimed he’s lost his touch and that he would be doing it at a club like Tottenham and not a big money behemoth like in his past

Tottenham isn't exactly Little Sisters of the Poor. Mourinho is the 2nd highest paid Manager in the league. Spurs more than doubled their revenue the prior half decade before his hire. Increased broadcast money, sponsor money, other etc... They were 8th in World Revenue for 2018-2019 (better than Chelsea and Arsenal), 4th richest English Club. They may be less marketed as some of the others at and near the $ top, but they are a big money club.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 06, 2020, 06:13:13 PM
Tottenham isn't exactly Little Sisters of the Poor. Mourinho is the 2nd highest paid Manager in the league. Spurs more than doubled their revenue the prior half decade before his hire. Increased broadcast money, sponsor money, other etc... They were 8th in World Revenue for 2018-2019 (better than Chelsea and Arsenal), 4th richest English Club. They may be less marketed as some of the others at and near the $ top, but they are a big money club.

Dont think anyone is saying that Tottenham are not a huge revenue club.  But they dont spend like United, RM, or Chelsea.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 06, 2020, 06:47:34 PM
Dont think anyone is saying that Tottenham are not a huge revenue club.  But they dont spend like United, RM, or Chelsea.

Their spending has been in a similar range to Chelsea the past five years, which doesn't include the money spent on their new $1 Billion plus stadium. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on December 06, 2020, 07:06:08 PM
Their spending has been in a similar range to Chelsea the past five years, which doesn't include the money spent on their new $1 Billion plus stadium.

Still looking for five-year figures, but over the past decade, Chelsea has spent 1.38 billion pounds in the transfer market, second only to Man City. Tottenham has 626 million.
This year, Chelsea spent 226 million pounds to Tottenham's 62 million.
Doesn't seem a similar range.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 06, 2020, 07:19:46 PM
Still looking for five-year figures, but over the past decade, Chelsea has spent 1.38 billion pounds in the transfer market, second only to Man City. Tottenham has 626 million.
This year, Chelsea spent 226 million pounds to Tottenham's 62 million.
Doesn't seem a similar range.

Tottenham has signed 2 players for over £40MM, ever. Sanchez and Ndombele.  Since 2017 when they signed Sanchez, Chelsea has signed 11.

No, Tottenham isn’t Bournemouth. And they have grown in stature as a club both in reputation and finances. But they aren’t nearly the spenders of the top clubs they compete with in Spain, Germany, or Italy, much less the EPL
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 06, 2020, 07:26:12 PM
Still looking for five-year figures, but over the past decade, Chelsea has spent 1.38 billion pounds in the transfer market, second only to Man City. Tottenham has 626 million.
This year, Chelsea spent 226 million pounds to Tottenham's 62 million.
Doesn't seem a similar range.

Mourinho didn't become the manager 10 years ago. That is the discussion. In my opinion, he isn't going to go somewhere without the chance to win at the highest level.

Spending similar to Chelsea for the past 5 years, a place where he managed twice before, overtaking them in revenue, entering a new $1 Billion stadium, with team friendly deals for Heung-min Son, and Lucas Moura. (How you spend also matters in addition to how much). Vastly increased revenues, improved results.

Mourinho is also the 2nd highest paid Manager in the league, so he's certainly getting his money. As for the team, we'll see, with the new stadium, new revenue streams and increased revenue, if he gets to field  championship caliber teams. There is certainly the expectation going there that Spurs will be more competitive spenders more so than in their past.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 06, 2020, 07:47:09 PM
Levy will never become a spend just to spend chairman, unlike United, chelsea and Woolwich.

The no new signings for 2 windows was as much Poch as the club not willing to spend.  I love Poch,  it he was stubborn and didn't want to deviate from what he wanted.

Tottenham have their wage structure and arent going to blow it up for anyone.   What they do spend on is bonuses, which is a lot better than paying Ozil $350k to watch AFTV on match day....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 06, 2020, 10:01:20 PM
Mourinho didn't become the manager 10 years ago. That is the discussion. In my opinion, he isn't going to go somewhere without the chance to win at the highest level.

Spending similar to Chelsea for the past 5 years, a place where he managed twice before, overtaking them in revenue, entering a new $1 Billion stadium, with team friendly deals for Heung-min Son, and Lucas Moura. (How you spend also matters in addition to how much). Vastly increased revenues, improved results.

Mourinho is also the 2nd highest paid Manager in the league, so he's certainly getting his money. As for the team, we'll see, with the new stadium, new revenue streams and increased revenue, if he gets to field  championship caliber teams. There is certainly the expectation going there that Spurs will be more competitive spenders more so than in their past.

Source?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 06, 2020, 11:11:23 PM
Source?

Transfermarkt.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on December 07, 2020, 11:38:00 AM
Transfermarkt.

Five year expenditures, according to Transfermarkt:

Chelsea - 983.73 million
Tottenham - 512.6 million

Still not seeing how you categorize this as a "similar range." That's a gap of nearly 100 million per season.

Not sure this link will work, but if not you can use the sorting tool yourself.
https://www.transfermarkt.us/transfers/einnahmenausgaben/statistik/plus/0?ids=a&sa=&saison_id=2016&saison_id_bis=2020&land_id=189&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 07, 2020, 11:44:59 AM
Five year expenditures, according to Transfermarkt:

Chelsea - 983.73 million
Tottenham - 512.6 million

Still not seeing how you categorize this as a "similar range." That's a gap of nearly 100 million per season.

Not sure this link will work, but if not you can use the sorting tool yourself.
https://www.transfermarkt.us/transfers/einnahmenausgaben/statistik/plus/0?ids=a&sa=&saison_id=2016&saison_id_bis=2020&land_id=189&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

My numbers are the period ending 19/20 not 2021. And they include selling not just buying.

And, the overall point remains the same. Mourinho went somewhere that would pay him among the top $ in the league. And, with recently increased revenue (doubled over this period), $ 1 Billion Stadium spending, etc....the expectation is that Tottenham would be able to compete with top tier clubs. No one expects them to wildly spend, or change dramatically.  But I also don't believe he'd go there if these things were not happening.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on December 07, 2020, 11:56:16 AM
My numbers are the period ending 19/20 not 2021. And they include selling not just buying.

Selling isn't spending.
And changing the years doesn't change the spending difference. For the five-year period you're using, it's 817.96 million to 469.15 million ... a difference of about 70 million a year. Still not similar.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 07, 2020, 12:11:08 PM
Selling isn't spending.
And changing the years doesn't change the spending difference. For the five-year period you're using, it's 817.96 million to 469.15 million ... a difference of about 70 million a year. Still not similar.

I used net spending.

And again, it doesn’t change anything about the same point made over several posts.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on December 07, 2020, 12:19:53 PM
I used net spending.

And again, it doesn’t change anything about the same point made over several posts.

But that's all conjecture about what might happen in the future, not evidence that they have spent "in a similar range to Chelsea." The former is speculation. The latter is provably incorrect.

Since you keep on bringing up the stadium, that's a long-term investment that may or may not eventually produce revenues that will be spent on players. We have no idea, but we do know that it's not proof of  - or even related to - past spending.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 07, 2020, 12:47:17 PM
Silly argument all around IMO.  All big clubs spend big, and exact $ can be misleading.  For example, Spurs have three players in their rotation that are in on loan, that's more than the rest of the "big 6" combined.  That means you're not paying transfer fees on those players.  Vinicius + Bale + Fernandes transfermarkt value is about 70 mil. That's great from a Spurs perspective as that's money saved (as well as $ saved on Bale's salary).  The problem then comes when those loans expire, and you have to fill that roster spot, either from buying the former "loanee", buying or loaning a different player, or promoting from the academy.  The result of that decision is a better determination for total $ spent IMO. 

Also worth noting that Reguilon came at below market value because Spurs agreed to a "buy back" clause.  Smart from certain perspectives in that you got a quality player at below market price, and forced the other bidder for him (Man U) to scramble and end up getting an older, worse option in Alex Tellas.  But if that clause is activated, they could be in trouble, especially if they don't think that Sessegnon is ready yet, you may be back to seeing Ben Davies as the starting LB.  Not a great option IMO.

Point is, that there are plenty of ways to manipulate spending, and once you get figures as high as they are, it gets more and more grey.  Not saying that Spurs are doing it the right or wrong way, it's just the way that they are currently operating, and reflects a lower total wage bill.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 07, 2020, 01:27:24 PM
Gedson Fernandes hasn't played much at all, he was a stopgap loan last winter when The Goat got hurt.   He's not even registered for Europa.  I wouldn't be surprised to see his loan terminated in January.

Bale is a unique situation, in that Madrid was desperate to unload at least part of his wages, as he wasn't going to play at all under Zidane.   Call it a "hometown" discount, but i dont think there is any other player in any league in Bale's situation.

Reguilon was 3rd choice LB at RM.  the buyback has to include the player agreeing to return to RM in the next two years.   RM cant just trigger the buyback.  Would he go? Maybe?  This alwas a great piece of business feom Levy.

Vinicius is a backup to Harry Kane.  Buying a backup has proven next to impossible (Llorente, Janssen, using Lucas out of position.)  Son and Kane getting injured during the same time last year just reinforced how important getting a backup striker was, at least until Parrott/Scarlett are ready.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 07, 2020, 01:32:03 PM
Gedson Fernandes hasn't played much at all, he was a stopgap loan last winter when The Goat got hurt.   He's not even registered for Europa.  I wouldn't be surprised to see his loan terminated in January.

Bale is a unique situation, in that Madrid was desperate to unload at least part of his wages, as he wasn't going to play at all under Zidane.   Call it a "hometown" discount, but i dont think there is any other player in any league in Bale's situation.

Reguilon was 3rd choice LB at RM.  the buyback has to include the player agreeing to return to RM in the next two years.   RM cant just trigger the buyback.  Would he go? Maybe?  This alwas a great piece of business feom Levy.

Vinicius is a backup to Harry Kane.  Buying a backup has proven next to impossible (Llorente, Janssen, using Lucas out of position.)  Son and Kane getting injured during the same time last year just reinforced how important getting a backup striker was, at least until Parrott/Scarlett are ready.

I'm not saying that it's not smart in some aspects, but it does contain some risks that buying players straight up doesn't have, which is why you don't see many of the top clubs doing it all that frequently.  It is also part of the explanation of why the total spent in the windows varies so much.  There are plenty of ways to (legally) manipulate your books.

Edit: Also, while I don't know what going on in his head, I would find it very hard for a Spanish International from their academy to turn Real down if they come calling.  Nothing against Spurs, that'd just be an awfully tough sell considering Reguilon represented them at every level.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 07, 2020, 03:04:39 PM
I'm not saying that it's not smart in some aspects, but it does contain some risks that buying players straight up doesn't have, which is why you don't see many of the top clubs doing it all that frequently.  It is also part of the explanation of why the total spent in the windows varies so much.  There are plenty of ways to (legally) manipulate your books.

Edit: Also, while I don't know what going on in his head, I would find it very hard for a Spanish International from their academy to turn Real down if they come calling.  Nothing against Spurs, that'd just be an awfully tough sell considering Reguilon represented them at every level.

Starting LB for the top team in the prem is a pretty good reason.  Plus he seems pretty happy at Spurs.

And if Real triggers the buyback and Reguilon agrees to go, Real has to pay a premium (10 or 15m, IIRC).  Use that to buy another LB or Cirkin will be ready to go by then and use the cash for another position of need.  Don Levy knows how to make a deal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 07, 2020, 03:45:19 PM
 ::) 

I'm happy for you that you can have such a sense of optimism about something in 2020.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on December 07, 2020, 03:46:55 PM
Edit: Also, while I don't know what going on in his head, I would find it very hard for a Spanish International from their academy to turn Real down if they come calling.  Nothing against Spurs, that'd just be an awfully tough sell considering Reguilon represented them at every level.

Reguilon has been very good for Spurs, but if RM wants to pay 40.5 million pounds for a player they sold a year ago for 25 million, I suspect Levy will gladly take the 15 million profit and go hunting for another LB.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 07, 2020, 04:21:22 PM
My numbers are the period ending 19/20 not 2021. And they include selling not just buying.

And, the overall point remains the same. Mourinho went somewhere that would pay him among the top $ in the league. And, with recently increased revenue (doubled over this period), $ 1 Billion Stadium spending, etc....the expectation is that Tottenham would be able to compete with top tier clubs. No one expects them to wildly spend, or change dramatically.  But I also don't believe he'd go there if these things were not happening.

But that's not what you started with.

You started by saying the club was spending with the top tier for players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on December 07, 2020, 05:03:49 PM
Starting to think that maybe Fulham has a solid shot to stay up.

Although now that I've said it, Liverpool is going to win 7-0 on Sunday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 07, 2020, 05:05:43 PM
Starting to think that maybe Fulham has a solid shot to stay up.

Although now that I've said it, Liverpool is going to win 7-0 on Sunday.

Burnley, sheff united, aresnal, and west brom.  I like Fulham's chances.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 07, 2020, 05:07:08 PM
::) 

I'm happy for you that you can have such a sense of optimism about something in 2020.

Some truth, some banter.  Better than being 100% miserable like you are.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 07, 2020, 05:27:22 PM
Some truth, some banter.  Better than being 100% miserable like you are.

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that I'm miserable, it's been a tough year yes, but I think I'm holding together all right. 

As for this topic I just think I'm more objective since the English team that I've been a fan of isn't in the Prem, so I don't have as much of a rooting interest, and just want to watch good games.  Nothing wrong with seeing things through the lens that you do, Spurs have certainly started the season well, I'm just not convinced that there current form is sustainable for the entire season.  I'm not rooting against them by any means, I just see some worrying signs that you may overlook due to your fandom.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 07, 2020, 05:35:19 PM
Not sure how you came to the conclusion that I'm miserable, it's been a tough year yes, but I think I'm holding together all right. 

As for this topic I just think I'm more objective since the English team that I've been a fan of isn't in the Prem, so I don't have as much of a rooting interest, and just want to watch good games.  Nothing wrong with seeing things through the lens that you do, Spurs have certainly started the season well, I'm just not convinced that there current form is sustainable for the entire season.  I'm not rooting against them by any means, I just see some worrying signs that you may overlook due to your fandom.

Brewers
Bears
MU
Spurs

I'll take my joy where i can get it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 07, 2020, 05:41:33 PM
And there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you can recognize that your biases may lead you to draw different conclusions than people that have different biases than you do.  I'm still not sure that makes me "miserable".
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 07, 2020, 05:56:41 PM
And there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you can recognize that your biases may lead you to draw different conclusions than people that have different biases than you do.  I'm still not sure that makes me "miserable".

Ok.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 07, 2020, 06:08:01 PM
Brewers
Bears
MU
Spurs

I'll take my joy where i can get it.

Cross off brewers and that's my list.

Jeez Zig, I think we need to start a social support group.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 07, 2020, 06:39:41 PM
But that's not what you started with.

You started by saying the club was spending with the top tier for players.

No, actually, I didn't.

This was my original post in quotes:

"Tottenham isn't exactly Little Sisters of the Poor. Mourinho is the 2nd highest paid Manager in the league. Spurs more than doubled their revenue the prior half decade before his hire. Increased broadcast money, sponsor money, other etc... They were 8th in World Revenue for 2018-2019 (better than Chelsea and Arsenal), 4th richest English Club. They may be less marketed as some of the others at and near the $ top, but they are a big money club."


See, this was, has been, and still is, what type of team would Mourinho join. That's the topic of what I said. I said, they are a big money club because they are now a big money club. Being a big money club doesn't mean they spend the most.

I have never suggested Spurs have or will spend with the world's biggest spenders. They don't have to, to still be considered a big money club. You seem overly interested in which few clubs spend the most in total spending vs the net spending that I mentioned, which is one of many things I mentioned in follow up posts. You seem more interested in this than the actual topic and point of my post.

Where would Jose go?

Would it be Little Sisters of the Poor? Or would it be a team that would make him the 2nd highest paid Manager in the Premier League?

Would it be Little Sisters of the Poor? Or would it be the 8th largest soccer revenue generating team in the world?

Would it be Little Sisters of the Poor? Or would it be a team that opened a new $ 1 Billion stadium?

Would it be a team that couldn't compete at a high level? Or would it be a team that smart deals such as they did with Heung-min Son and Lucas Moura?

Would it be a team that wouldn't add pieces? Or would it be a team that spent a club record $68 million for Tanguy Ndombele?

But wait Tottenham of the past did this or that? What does that have to do with Mourinho taking their job? The above mentioned examples, illustrate in part, why Jose would take the Spurs managerial job.

Perhaps Tottenham will pay their players in free pizza and pints only moving forward. Perhaps they will only live in the past. But they are a big money team, that can put competitive teams on the field that can win. They do have those capabilities, yes. They are a "Haves" in a world of "Haves and Have nots."

That is to not conclude they will all of a sudden spend the among the most in the world for players now or in the future. I am not sure what that is so difficult to understand.

We'll see how it goes.











Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 07, 2020, 06:42:25 PM
Silly argument all around IMO.  All big clubs spend big, and exact $ can be misleading.  For example, Spurs have three players in their rotation that are in on loan, that's more than the rest of the "big 6" combined.  That means you're not paying transfer fees on those players.  Vinicius + Bale + Fernandes transfermarkt value is about 70 mil. That's great from a Spurs perspective as that's money saved (as well as $ saved on Bale's salary).  The problem then comes when those loans expire, and you have to fill that roster spot, either from buying the former "loanee", buying or loaning a different player, or promoting from the academy.  The result of that decision is a better determination for total $ spent IMO. 

Also worth noting that Reguilon came at below market value because Spurs agreed to a "buy back" clause.  Smart from certain perspectives in that you got a quality player at below market price, and forced the other bidder for him (Man U) to scramble and end up getting an older, worse option in Alex Tellas.  But if that clause is activated, they could be in trouble, especially if they don't think that Sessegnon is ready yet, you may be back to seeing Ben Davies as the starting LB.  Not a great option IMO.

Point is, that there are plenty of ways to manipulate spending, and once you get figures as high as they are, it gets more and more grey.  Not saying that Spurs are doing it the right or wrong way, it's just the way that they are currently operating, and reflects a lower total wage bill.

All good points.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on December 07, 2020, 06:50:54 PM
No, actually, I didn't.

Here's what you wrote that Spurs fans are taking issue with:

"Their spending has been in a similar range to Chelsea the past five years, which doesn't include the money spent on their new $1 Billion plus stadium."

No matter how you slice it, this is objectively not true. Chelsea literally has spent hundreds of millions more over the past five years.
The rest is speculation about what could happen in the future or what kind of club Mourinho would work for. You may end up being right about all of that, but that doesn't make what you wrote above true.
And, given how his previous two gigs worked out, I think you're vastly overstating Jose's options at that point. In truth, Tottenham was probably about a good an opportunity as he could have expected, and perhaps better.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 07, 2020, 06:53:09 PM
No, actually, I didn't.

This was my original post in quotes:

"Tottenham isn't exactly Little Sisters of the Poor. Mourinho is the 2nd highest paid Manager in the league. Spurs more than doubled their revenue the prior half decade before his hire. Increased broadcast money, sponsor money, other etc... They were 8th in World Revenue for 2018-2019 (better than Chelsea and Arsenal), 4th richest English Club. They may be less marketed as some of the others at and near the $ top, but they are a big money club."


See, this was, has been, and still is, what type of team would Mourinho join. That's the topic of what I said. I said, they are a big money club because they are now a big money club. Being a big money club doesn't mean they spend the most.

I have never suggested Spurs have or will spend with the world's biggest spenders. They don't have to, to still be considered a big money club. You seem overly interested in which few clubs spend the most in total spending vs the net spending that I mentioned, which is one of many things I mentioned in follow up posts. You seem more interested in this than the actual topic and point of my post.

Where would Jose go?

Would it be Little Sisters of the Poor? Or would it be a team that would make him the 2nd highest paid Manager in the Premier League?

Would it be Little Sisters of the Poor? Or would it be the 8th largest soccer revenue generating team in the world?

Would it be Little Sisters of the Poor? Or would it be a team that opened a new $ 1 Billion stadium?

Would it be a team that couldn't compete at a high level? Or would it be a team that smart deals such as they did with Heung-min Son and Lucas Moura?

Would it be a team that wouldn't add pieces? Or would it be a team that spent a club record $68 million for Tanguy Ndombele?

But wait Tottenham of the past did this or that? What does that have to do with Mourinho taking their job? The above mentioned examples, illustrate in part, why Jose would take the Spurs managerial job.

Perhaps Tottenham will pay their players in free pizza and pints only moving forward. Perhaps they will only live in the past. But they are a big money team, that can put competitive teams on the field that can win. They do have those capabilities, yes. They are a "Haves" in a world of "Haves and Have nots."

That is to not conclude they will all of a sudden spend the among the most in the world for players now or in the future. I am not sure what that is so difficult to understand.

We'll see how it goes.

My apologies. It was your second point:

Their spending has been in a similar range to Chelsea the past five years, which doesn't include the money spent on their new $1 Billion plus stadium.

And then you doubled-down:

Mourinho didn't become the manager 10 years ago. That is the discussion. In my opinion, he isn't going to go somewhere without the chance to win at the highest level.

Spending similar to Chelsea for the past 5 years, a place where he managed twice before, overtaking them in revenue, entering a new $1 Billion stadium, with team friendly deals for Heung-min Son, and Lucas Moura. (How you spend also matters in addition to how much). Vastly increased revenues, improved results.

Mourinho is also the 2nd highest paid Manager in the league, so he's certainly getting his money. As for the team, we'll see, with the new stadium, new revenue streams and increased revenue, if he gets to field  championship caliber teams. There is certainly the expectation going there that Spurs will be more competitive spenders more so than in their past.

And then you doubled-back in this last post (see bold at the top of this post in your quote).

Ultimately, I think everyone, including Spurs fans agrees with you about revenue/big club. As evidence by Zig's post here:

Dont think anyone is saying that Tottenham are not a huge revenue club.  But they dont spend like United, RM, or Chelsea.

But what people started coming out of the woodwork to argue with you about was the player spending.

If you can agree that Tottenham doesn't spend comparable to Chelsea or United or RM, etc, etc on players, then no one would have any disagreement with the rest of your stances.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 07, 2020, 07:05:29 PM
Here's what you wrote that Spurs fans are taking issue with:

"Their spending has been in a similar range to Chelsea the past five years, which doesn't include the money spent on their new $1 Billion plus stadium."

No matter how you slice it, this is objectively not true. Chelsea literally has spent hundreds of millions more over the past five years.
The rest is speculation about what could happen in the future or what kind of club Mourinho would work for.
And, given how his previous two gigs worked out, I think you're vastly overstating his options at that point. In truth, Tottenham was probably about a good an opportunity as he could have expected, and perhaps better.

We have been through this a few times. I am happy to move on after this, for the rest of the board's sake.

You weren't interested in the topic which is whether or not Spurs is a big money club. Is Spurs a big money club? Yes or No? And part two of the actual topic is that Jose Mourinho took a job there as opposed to a team with less means. I did mention many different things in follow up posts including net spending when discussing Spurs, yes.

Jose didn't go to Sheffield United to make less than a $1 million a year. He went somewhere that is paying him $50 million over a few years. How many teams could and would pay that for example? That's what big money clubs do. Big money clubs build $ 1 Billion stadiums. Big money clubs generate 8th most revenue of any soccer club in the world.

Of course we don't know what will happen in the future. We are all of course, day to day in life. But we certainly see what is going on now.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 07, 2020, 07:15:04 PM
We have been through this a few times. I am happy to move on after this, for the rest of the board's sake.

You weren't interested in the topic which is whether or not Spurs is a big money club. Is Spurs a big money club? Yes or No? And part two of the actual topic is that Jose Mourinho took a job there as opposed to a team with less means. I did mention many different things in follow up posts including net spending when discussing Spurs, yes.

Jose didn't go to Sheffield United to make less than a $1 million a year. He went somewhere that is paying him $50 million over a few years. How many teams could and would pay that for example? That's what big money clubs do. Big money clubs build $ 1 Billion stadiums. Big money clubs generate 8th most revenue of any soccer club in the world.

Of course we don't know what will happen in the future. We are all of course, day to day in life. But we certainly see what is going on now.

How can you not admit you were wrong? Unequivocally as pointed out by multiple people. My original point was he didn’t go somewhere that spent annual King’s ransoms rebuilding squads like Man U or Chelsea or Real. No matter how much their stadium costs or how well they have operated the club from a P&L standpoint, they don’t have a war chest seemingly only limited by FFP.

But you keep diverting the conversation as soon as it was shown that they don’t spend like Chelsea and have not aside from 1-2 comparable players over a multi year stretch.  But sure, we can all move on so you don’t continue to double down and shift arguments to how Tottenham’s team cafeteria actually has chefs that worked at the same Gordon Ramsey restaurants as the Chelsea and Man City chefs did before they moved on, clearly big spender club stuff
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 07, 2020, 07:24:32 PM
I think shootblanks is just pissed that the cheese room got eliminated from NWHL.  Then spurs woulda been a big spending club.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 07, 2020, 07:46:56 PM
My apologies. It was your second point:

And then you doubled-down:

And then you doubled-back in this last post (see bold at the top of this post in your quote).

Ultimately, I think everyone, including Spurs fans agrees with you about revenue/big club. As evidence by Zig's post here:

But what people started coming out of the woodwork to argue with you about was the player spending.

If you can agree that Tottenham doesn't spend comparable to Chelsea or United or RM, etc, etc on players, then no one would have any disagreement with the rest of your stances.

I have said in multiple posts that Tottenham haven't been among the biggest spenders. I am unsure how many times that needs to be said.

I did reference some Net spending vs Total Spending, which are two different things. I used a net spending example, among many other things I mentioned.  I am well aware that Spurs total player spending isn't a wild free for all as it is for some of the very top spending teams. I haven't said otherwise.

Others haven't acknowledged that having the 8th most revenue in the world makes you a big money team.

Others haven't acknowledged that they are paying $50 million to Mourinho, something they weren't doing before.

Others haven't acknowledged that Tottenham set a club $ record with Tanguy Ndombele.

Others haven't acknowledged their new $1 Billion stadium, something they weren't doing before.

Others haven't acknowledged their 15 year deal with Nike, one of the longest Nike has ever done for a soccer club.

Others haven't acknowledged their increased broadcast revenues.


Others haven't acknowledged their $55 million training facility.

Etc...

All of these things have taken place in the last few years.

Spurs are a big money team. What they have and have not done with that has varied. What they do with that in the future remains to be seen. I have repeatedly said I don't believe they will jump to the top of the spending list. But yes they have improved their financials, and they have made both smart moves as well as spent elsewhere, certainly more than they have before 

Mourinho went to a big money team. Or as I said in my post, they aren't exactly Little Sisters of the Poor at this time. That means what it means. It doesn't predict the future. it also doesn't live in the past. It means he's there now, this is who they are now and how they are positioned now financially. It means nothing more, nothing less. ....

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 07, 2020, 07:54:18 PM
How can you not admit you were wrong? Unequivocally as pointed out by multiple people. My original point was he didn’t go somewhere that spent annual King’s ransoms rebuilding squads like Man U or Chelsea or Real. No matter how much their stadium costs or how well they have operated the club from a P&L standpoint, they don’t have a war chest seemingly only limited by FFP.

But you keep diverting the conversation as soon as it was shown that they don’t spend like Chelsea and have not aside from 1-2 comparable players over a multi year stretch.  But sure, we can all move on so you don’t continue to double down and shift arguments to how Tottenham’s team cafeteria actually has chefs that worked at the same Gordon Ramsey restaurants as the Chelsea and Man City chefs did before they moved on, clearly big spender club stuff

Actually what you said was Spurs were not a big money behemoth. What I said was they weren't Little Sisters of the Poor, and that they are a big money team. Some of you misread that as Spurs spend among the most money. I then used a Net Spending example, among several other things to point out that Mourinho went to a big money team.

Being a big money team doesn't mean you spend the most money.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 07, 2020, 10:36:56 PM
You literally said twice they spent comparable chelsea on players.

I acknowledge and agree with all of the rest of your points.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 08, 2020, 08:36:49 AM
You literally said twice they spent comparable chelsea on players.

I acknowledge and agree with all of the rest of your points.

Net Spend is what I said in multiple posts:

https://twitter.com/RealKevinPalmer/status/1269396951981834240?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 08, 2020, 09:30:30 AM
Net Spend is what I said in multiple posts:

https://twitter.com/RealKevinPalmer/status/1269396951981834240?s=19

Great but your chart is from before chelsea dumped 200m+ this past summer and during their transfer ban.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 08, 2020, 09:40:30 AM
Great but your chart is from before chelsea dumped 200m+ this past summer and during their transfer ban.

Great, but that isn't what I said.

I made it clear that I was referencing Net Spending during the five year period I mentioned.


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on December 08, 2020, 10:29:36 AM
Great, but that isn't what I said.

I made it clear that I was referencing Net Spending during the five year period I mentioned.

Last thing I'll post on this, but you didn't..You changed to net only after we pointed out that your original remarks were wrong.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 08, 2020, 10:34:59 AM
Last thing I'll post on this, but you didn't..You changed to net only after we pointed out that your original remarks were wrong.

That's incorrect. I was referencing Net Spending the entire time. I didn't change anything. When I mentioned it multiple times, you and others just kept ignoring it because you weren't interested in Net Spending. It isn't a Christmas Miracle that the Net Spending from the particular five year period I mentioned is correct/similar.

You posted six times about the same one thing, uninterested in Net Spending, despite my mentioning it multiple times, despite my also mentioning the source of my information when asked. (before anyone made a single comment)

You even said buying isn't selling etc... You were also uninterested over six posts in the actual main topic of my post, nor any other parts to it.  And you seemed to incorrectly conclude that I said Tottenham would all of a sudden be among the biggest spenders, even though I never said that. What I did say, is that they are a big money club (they are) and that they have doubled revenues, (they have) increased various spending investments, (this too) and that Mourinho went to a club that is "Not exactly Little Sisters of the Poor" (also true)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 08, 2020, 11:17:38 AM
Chelsea's net spend is an interesting hill to die upon.

You're right.  The whole time, you were right.  Way to be.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 08, 2020, 11:52:14 AM
Chelsea's net spend is an interesting hill to die upon.

You're right.  The whole time, you were right.  Way to be.

You, and a few others were pedantic (and incorrect) about one small aspect of the many different things I said when discussing Mourinho and Tottenham. I mentioned it once. Then I responded to the repeated posts that were directed at me about it. Few of the same people were interested in discussing the value of Net Spending, or any of the many other aspects of the Mourinho/Tottenham topic.

All of you took one small aspect of a topic and elevated its importance to make it the only thing...and, were wrong about it.  That’s on you, not me.

It's okay to be wrong, and it's okay to not know something. (I didn't know where MU's latest recruiting target was committing, and was unsure about the UCLA game's broadcast etc...in just the past 24 hours) But if you are going to intentionally misrepresent someone else, despite evidence to the contrary, that's different.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 08, 2020, 12:09:47 PM
You, and a few others were pedantic (and incorrect) about one small aspect of the many different things I said when discussing Mourinho and Tottenham. I mentioned it once. Then I responded to the repeated posts that were directed at me about it. Few of the same people were interested in discussing the value of Net Spending, or any of the many other aspects of the Mourinho/Tottenham topic.

All of you took one small aspect of a topic and elevated its importance to make it the only thing...and, were wrong about it.  That’s on you, not me.

It's okay to be wrong, and it's okay to not know something. (I didn't know where MU's latest recruiting target was committing, and was unsure about the UCLA game's broadcast etc...in just the past 24 hours) But if you are going to intentionally misrepresent someone else, despite evidence to the contrary, that's different.

It's on us cause you said "spend" and not "net spend"?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 08, 2020, 12:11:03 PM
It's on us cause you said "spend" and not "net spend"?

Shootblanks is right.

He's my new hero.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 08, 2020, 12:36:37 PM
It's on us cause you said "spend" and not "net spend"?

Thanks for illustrating my point above, right on time.👍

I said several times in various follow up posts that I was referencing Net Spending, Buying and Selling etc...but you and a few others weren't interested in any of that. You also weren't interested in the topic itself. Even discussing the merits and value of net spending vs other spending would have been more on topic with regards to Mourinho/Spurs.

I knew when I posted, that Tottenham had a Net Spending similar to Chelsea during the very specific time frame I mentioned. Otherwise, I wouldn't have posted it. It seems rather specific, the two teams chosen in the example, in a very specific time frame. You even asked for the source and I gave it. And like a Christmas Miracle, like Magic, it just so happens to be correct. Perhaps I could play the lottery successfully with all of that luck.



Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 08, 2020, 12:44:54 PM
Shootblanks is right.

He's my new hero.

When running out of valid points to make, let's try to disparage someone's name or username. When it fails, and one still doesn't have a valid point to make, let's repeat it in case the person missed it. And when all else fails, let's sarcastically praise the person.

I'm happy to discuss anything of soccer value with regard to Mourinho and Tottenham, or something else soccer related.

Or

Seattle's exciting 3 goal come back in the final 20 minutes, sparked by Will Bruin etc...to advance to the finals over Minnesota.

Or

Utah Royals disbanding in the NWSL and a new Kansas City Women's team taking their place.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 08, 2020, 12:55:39 PM
Zack Steffen appears to be in line to get his first Champions League appearance tomorrow as City has already won their group.  Just another name on the ever growing list. 

Given their lackluster start in the league as well, would Zidane survive getting knocked out in the group stages of the Champions League tomorrow?  A few managers potentially coaching for their jobs this week.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 08, 2020, 01:17:21 PM
When running out of valid points to make, let's try to disparage someone's name or username. When it fails, and one still doesn't have a valid point to make, let's repeat it in case the person missed it. And when all else fails, let's sarcastically praise the person.

I'm happy to discuss anything of soccer value with regard to Mourinho and Tottenham, or something else soccer related.

Or

Seattle's exciting 3 goal come back in the final 20 minutes, sparked by Will Bruin etc...to advance to the finals over Minnesota.

Or

Utah Royals disbanding in the NWSL and a new Kansas City Women's team taking their place.

What's a chicos, aina?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on December 08, 2020, 02:34:24 PM
Weston McKennie Juventus:

https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1336407737895428099?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 08, 2020, 02:39:32 PM
PSG v Istanbul Basaksehir delayed because of reported racial abuse from an official towards a Basaksehir assistant coach.  Crazy if true, and props for both teams for uniting.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 08, 2020, 02:58:16 PM
PSG v Istanbul Basaksehir delayed because of reported racial abuse from an official towards a Basaksehir assistant coach.  Crazy if true, and props for both teams for uniting.


Word is that the Romanian fourth official sent off a black assistant coach, and when the main official walked over to ask who was sent off, he used the word "negru," which is Romanian for "black."  So it is part identifying someone by their color and part using a word that doesn't sound great.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 08, 2020, 03:14:31 PM
Glad to see both teams willing to walk off, especially in a CL match, due to real or perceived racism.   Teams had concerns about risking forfeit in the past.

But, it looks to be a different language thing than a truly racist statement.  Inappropriate to call a coach "that black guy" or "negru" in Romanian, especially for an official.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 08, 2020, 06:37:10 PM
Glad to see both teams willing to walk off, especially in a CL match, due to real or perceived racism.   Teams had concerns about risking forfeit in the past.

But, it looks to be a different language thing than a truly racist statement.  Inappropriate to call a coach "that black guy" or "negru" in Romanian, especially for an official.

Yep. And that was Demba Ba’s strongly and effectively worded argument. He wouldn’t have called another assistant coach “that white guy” so why did he need to minimize Webo like that. I don’t think it was out and out racist, like many of the slurs and incidents in European soccer recently have been, but it was at the very minimum racially insensitive and very unnecessary. Especially for a bleeping official.

Good on Neymar and Mbappe for immediately and unflinchingly supporting Basaksehir. Neymar gets plenty of criticism for diva behavior, some of which certainly is merited, but he’s experienced vast amounts of racial abuse over his career and has been a vocal voice in calling it out, not standing for it or letting it be swept under the rug, and the changes that need to be done.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 10, 2020, 05:01:47 PM
Guess the MLS didn't so as well avoiding covid as they told everyone...

https://twitter.com/samstejskal/status/1337142393171218432?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: WarriorInNYC on December 15, 2020, 09:19:01 AM
CONCACAF Champions League is starting back up tonight and NYCFC will be starting MU alum Luis Barraza in net as Sean Johnson has been deemed a COVID close-contact.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 17, 2020, 01:01:49 PM
https://twitter.com/si_soccer/status/1339298276709953537

Somewhat gifted to him, but still a nice finish.  Really hope he can settle in after dealing with all the injury setbacks he's had recently.  Still only 20, and I would think he's more than capable of grabbing a spot for the '22 WC.

I'm also seeing rumors that Juve are going to make McKennie's loan permanent, with a deal around 23 mil.  Not overly surprising given his age and current level of production.  He seems to be getting on well with Pirlo too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 17, 2020, 01:22:11 PM
https://twitter.com/si_soccer/status/1339298276709953537

Somewhat gifted to him, but still a nice finish.  Really hope he can settle in after dealing with all the injury setbacks he's had recently.  Still only 20, and I would think he's more than capable of grabbing a spot for the '22 WC.

I'm also seeing rumors that Juve are going to make McKennie's loan permanent, with a deal around 23 mil.  Not overly surprising given his age and current level of production.  He seems to be getting on well with Pirlo too.

If you want yet another reason to be excited about the future of the USMNT, it’s that Weah kind of fell off the forefront of most USMNT’s minds. It’s been injury in ashes instead of lack of form, which, provided he’s not made of glass, is a better situation at this age. Not the scenario where he’s over his head at a jump up. I still think he’s a no brainer 2022 selection. He’s an absurd talent and his scoring rate isn’t bad at all for how inconsistent his playing time has been.

As for McKinnie, he’s already exceeded my expectations. Regular playing time, starting and scoring in CL matches? Can’t ask for much more. 

Still lacking any faith in GREGGGGG, but can’t be more bullish on the talent on the squad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 17, 2020, 01:31:58 PM
Still lacking any faith in GREGGGGG, but can’t be more bullish on the talent on the squad.

IMO 2022 is all about getting experience for the core.  Hopefully advance from the group, and who knows what happens in the KO round.  Almost don't want to go too far bc then they'll extend Gregg.

My eye has always been on 2026.  We're hosting, and the list of names that will be in their prime is quite staggering.  Next coaching hire will probably be the most important one in USSF history, and given that talent, hopefully we'll be able to go big game hunting.

Edit: Couldn't help myself.  In 2026, the USMNT could feature:

Christian Pulisic-27
Gio Reyna-23
Tim Weah-26
Chris Richards-26
Weston McKennie-27
Tyler Adams-27
Josh Sargent-26
Zach Steffen-31 (totally fine for a keeper)
Sergino Dest-25
Antonee Robinson-28
Ulysses Llanez-25
Konrad de le Fuente-25
Yunus Musah (assuming we can keep him)-24

I'm sure I'm missing some, and new kids we've never heard of yet will pop onto the radar, but that's about 1 CB short of a legit squad in their prime.  Playing on home soil, we could be very dangerous.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 17, 2020, 02:24:33 PM
IMO 2022 is all about getting experience for the core.  Hopefully advance from the group, and who knows what happens in the KO round.  Almost don't want to go too far bc then they'll extend Gregg.

My eye has always been on 2026.  We're hosting, and the list of names that will be in their prime is quite staggering.  Next coaching hire will probably be the most important one in USSF history, and given that talent, hopefully we'll be able to go big game hunting.

Edit: Couldn't help myself.  In 2026, the USMNT could feature:

Christian Pulisic-27
Gio Reyna-23
Tim Weah-26
Chris Richards-26
Weston McKennie-27
Tyler Adams-27
Josh Sargent-26
Zach Steffen-31 (totally fine for a keeper)
Sergino Dest-25
Antonee Robinson-28
Ulysses Llanez-25
Konrad de le Fuente-25
Yunus Musah (assuming we can keep him)-24

I'm sure I'm missing some, and new kids we've never heard of yet will pop onto the radar, but that's about 1 CB short of a legit squad in their prime.  Playing on home soil, we could be very dangerous.

Candidates for 2026?

#1 is probably Marsch, right?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 17, 2020, 02:45:38 PM
Candidates for 2026?

#1 is probably Marsch, right?

At least right now yes.  Without giving too much away, I know someone that is close with the Marsch family, and he suggested that Jesse doesn't really have any interest in the job, at least right now.  Now this info is second or third hand, and about 5 months old, so take it fwiw, but apparently he isn't thrilled at the way the USSF is run, and I can't really blame him.  Obviously subject to change in the coming years, and I'm sure there will be other names thrown about, and he will still at least get a call post '22 WC, but I know he got a call pre Gregg, and pretty much said "thanks, but no thanks".
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 17, 2020, 02:47:27 PM
At least right now yes.  Without giving too much away, I know someone that is close with the Marsch family, and he suggested that Jesse doesn't really have any interest in the job, at least right now.  Now this info is second or third hand, and about 5 months old, so take it fwiw, but apparently he isn't thrilled at the way the USSF is run, and I can't really blame him.  Obviously subject to change in the coming years, and I'm sure there will be other names thrown about, and he will still at least get a call post '22 WC, but I know he got a call pre Gregg, and pretty much said "thanks, but no thanks".


Marsch's career path is looking pretty darn fine right now.  Why f*ck that up by coaching the USMNT?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 17, 2020, 02:51:14 PM

Marsch's career path is looking pretty darn fine right now.  Why f*ck that up by coaching the USMNT?

Exactly.  As much as I'd love him to be the manager, I can't blame him for wanting to keep his distance.  I just don't want another Arena clone, which is exactly what Gregg is.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 17, 2020, 02:52:07 PM

Marsch's career path is looking pretty darn fine right now.  Why f*ck that up by coaching the USMNT?

Glory of leading usmnt to a world cup win?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 17, 2020, 02:57:29 PM
Glory of leading usmnt to a world cup win?


Which isn't very likely, and in the meantime he'd have to deal with the headache of working with the USSF instead of in one of Europe's top 4 leagues.

You do realize the top managers in the world aren't working for national teams right?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on December 17, 2020, 04:07:14 PM
As much as I'd love to have a Highbury Pub patron in charge of the national side, he should absolutely stay in Europe and keep moving up there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 17, 2020, 04:21:49 PM

Which isn't very likely, and in the meantime he'd have to deal with the headache of working with the USSF instead of in one of Europe's top 4 leagues.

You do realize the top managers in the world aren't working for national teams right?

National team gigs are often highly paid sabbaticals for big name managers. Less daily grind, kind of a win win. If you’re in a down stretch, having a nice WC or big tourney with a country can reignite your prestige or interest from clubs.  But nobody is really going to rate you lower as a manager due to some struggles with a national team.  But at the same time, if you haven’t a rising star profile, like Marsch, or plenty of demand from top 4 league clubs, you don’t waste your time.

Look at the top national teams.

Belgium- Martinez probably had the brightest career before but he was sacked by Everton and likely wasn’t getting a top EPL job

France- Deschamps was sacked from Marseille and coaching a powerhouse national team for $5MM a year is better than bouncing around Ligue 1.

England- I mean, Garett Southgate had 1 managerial gig at Middlesbrough and was ok, now he’s leading the 3 Lions

Brazil- One of the most powerful national teams in history has a manager, Tite, who has never coached outside of Brazil, save for time in the UAE league.

And on and on.  The US gig could be intriguing for many reasons. But you’re not taking it if you can coach a top club in Spain, Germany, England, or Italy. And Marsch is on that path it seems
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on January 09, 2021, 09:37:21 AM
Sixth tier Chorley FC (Fly Magpies Fly) is in to the 4th round of the FA Cup for the first time with a 2-0 win over shorthanded Derby County in Lancashire. Their thoughts:

https://twitter.com/chorleyfc/status/1347911844464381952?s=19

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on January 09, 2021, 10:05:56 AM
19 year old American Matthew Hoppe has become the third American with a hat trick in one of Europe's Top 5 leagues.

He's done it in clinical fashion in less than twenty minutes apart.

Schalke over Hoffenheim, ending 30 match Bundesliga winless streak.

https://twitter.com/si_soccer/status/1347935601350291458?s=19

Elite finisher for Barcelona SW Academy in AZ, and Schalke.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on January 09, 2021, 06:18:08 PM
19 year old American Matthew Hoppe has become the third American with a hat trick in one of Europe's Top 5 leagues.

He's done it in clinical fashion in less than twenty minutes apart.

Schalke over Hoffenheim, ending 30 match Bundesliga winless streak.

https://twitter.com/si_soccer/status/1347935601350291458?s=19

Elite finisher for Barcelona SW Academy in AZ, and Schalke.

Those were some nice, composed finishes. Quite the way to open his account.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 10, 2021, 12:04:01 PM
19 year old American Matthew Hoppe has become the third American with a hat trick in one of Europe's Top 5 leagues.

He's done it in clinical fashion in less than twenty minutes apart.

Schalke over Hoffenheim, ending 30 match Bundesliga winless streak.

https://twitter.com/si_soccer/status/1347935601350291458?s=19

Elite finisher for Barcelona SW Academy in AZ, and Schalke.

The US to Bundesliga pipeline continues.  Let’s hope it continues to be more Pulisic/Richards/Adams/McKinnie and less Johannsen.

I remembered what a thrill it was to see Dempsey and McBride playing and scoring for Fulham. Seeing an American in a top league was so novel and exciting, now not only are they peppered across the top leagues, they are contributing meaningfully and for some of the titans of European soccer. Amazing
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on January 10, 2021, 09:03:50 PM
MLS Academies are not just producing good players. They are producing good coaches too.

Andrew Sparks (NY Red Bulls) getting praise here as Southampton's GK Coach.

https://twitter.com/GKUnion/status/1346533509515636737?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on January 13, 2021, 04:18:12 PM
Thrilled with Fulham's progression from matchday one through today. I was (and still remain) a bit skeptical of Parker's tactics but his team clearly loves him and fights hard for 90 minutes every game. Hopefully the rough start prior to the infusion of PL level talent didn't doom them and they are able to scrape their way out of the bottom three.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 13, 2021, 04:29:16 PM
Second division side Holstein Kiel just eliminated defending German and European champ Bayern in the German Cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 13, 2021, 04:31:11 PM
Extremely happy with Fulham's progression from matchday one through today. I was (and still remain) a bit skeptical of Parker's tactics but his team clearly loves him and fights hard for 90 minutes every game. Hopefully the rough start prior to the infusion of PL level talent didn't doom them and they are able to scrape their way out of the bottom three.

Plus they have Aina on the squad.  4ever's favorite player.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 13, 2021, 04:42:24 PM
Thrilled with Fulham's progression from matchday one through today. I was (and still remain) a bit skeptical of Parker's tactics but his team clearly loves him and fights hard for 90 minutes every game. Hopefully the rough start prior to the infusion of PL level talent didn't doom them and they are able to scrape their way out of the bottom three.

They have some very good players on loan.  Arieola was backstopping PSG just 2 years ago and was good enough to spell Navas at Real last season, he's still very much legit.  They are tough and scrappy and it works.  No clue WTF Tottenham was doing today.  Full strength squad, yet they nicked the first goal and were content to just sit back and protect that...at home...against an inferior squad.  Just bizarre, full marks to Fulham, they just kept coming and it felt inevitable.

Second division side Holstein Kiel just eliminated defending German and European champ Bayern in the German Cup.

Same idea here.  Watched a good portion of the second half, Bayern got a second fairly early in the second half and figured that was enough...cause they are Bayern.  It felt like every attack was either and attempted split of 2 defenders unnecessarily, or putzing around.   I lost track of the number of times Gnabry, or Tolisso, or Musiala went darting into the box, and then just pulled it out thinking they could dump it off to someone at the edge of the 18.  None of the relentless Bayern pressure or flashes across goal that they finish so clinically. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 13, 2021, 05:26:28 PM
Gotta say, would have thought Poch getting his first trophy would feel like a bigger deal.  Not trying to diminish his accomplishments, I just feel...unsatisfied.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 13, 2021, 05:30:07 PM
Gotta say, would have thought Poch getting his first trophy would feel like a bigger deal.  Not trying to diminish his accomplishments, I just feel...unsatisfied.

Is this sarcastic? It’s the Super Cup, who cares? PSG has like 10. Nobody is crying tears of joy and relief from taking down the Community Shield
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 13, 2021, 05:50:00 PM
Is this sarcastic? It’s the Super Cup, who cares? PSG has like 10. Nobody is crying tears of joy and relief from taking down the Community Shield

I would think Poch cares.  When there has been such commentary about how he has come so close to winning these major trophies, losing in the League Cup Final, having to deal with a second place finish in what will always be known as Leicester's year, losing in the Champions League Final, etc. Taking the clubs that can't "buy trophies" and being extremely competitive with them.  Then, 9 days after taking the job at one of the biggest clubs in the world, getting a trophy in your third game as manager just feels a little like a cop out way to get that monkey off your back. 

Imagine if MU makes the touney and Wojo's first tourney win comes from the other team forfeiting due to Covid.  It should feel like a big deal, we've been waiting almost a decade for it, but under circumstances like that, it just wouldn't feel as special as it should.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 13, 2021, 06:03:39 PM
I guess, but again, I don’t even view a win like this as much of a trophy. Maybe if they win Coupe de France again. Again, it’s still something they have a million of, running roughshod over the same lesser clubs they do all Ligue 1 season, but at least there is some progression there, not just a largely meaningless one off match.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 13, 2021, 06:13:42 PM
It's still his first.  There was a story about Louie Barry accidently swapping shirts with Fabinho after their FA Cup match, and after being reminded that it was his debut he had to go chasing after him to get it back.  Pep will often talk about his favorite trophy being the first one he won with Barca B, just because it was his first.

You see it in other sports too, first MLB hit, ball always gets returned to the player, same for NHL goal scorers keeping their first puck. 

Getting your first with a team you've been with less than 2 weeks, having essentially no say in the overall build of the team, and not even really starting to implement your coaching style yet, just feels a bit hollow.  It was just an observation, nothing more really.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 13, 2021, 06:53:22 PM
It says more about the state of French soccer than it does Poch.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on January 13, 2021, 07:11:45 PM
Big day in Women's Soccer.

NWSL draft is tonight. Trinity Rodman, son of Dennis, was the 2nd overall pick. She played her Freshman season at Washington State. Very speedy, elite finisher, lots of youth National Team experience. She's 18.

Soon to be Stanford graduate, midfielder Catarina "Cat" Marcario, was declared eligible by FIFA to play for the U.S. Women's National Team. Superstar midfielder from San Diego (Surf) moved to the U.S. at 12 from Brazil in search of the American Dream with her family. She became a U.S. citizen this past October.

Marcario is a two time Missouri Athletic Club/Hermann Trophy winner as a midfielder at Stanford. And she was a two time National Champion. She is one of the best Women's college players in recent memory. She decided to forgo her final season at Stanford, and decided to sign with European Champion, Olympique Lyonnais.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on January 14, 2021, 09:57:17 AM
Gotta say, would have thought Poch getting his first trophy would feel like a bigger deal.  Not trying to diminish his accomplishments, I just feel...unsatisfied.

I think the Covid induced mid week timing has an effect on feelings.

PSG-Marseille is a great rivalry. Payet and Neymar detest each other. These matches are nasty enough that winning does mean something and feels good with a trophy to boot.

French soccer is actually in rude health because Lyon and Lille are not going away. Both are built to win a title. If PSG is to win another Ligue Une then that will be the time it feels like a big deal for that particular coach winning a trophy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 14, 2021, 10:32:40 AM
This season maybe, but long term it's still most definitely a one team league.  Just look at that 2016 Monaco title winning squad and how they were gutted.  Mbappe, Fabinho, Bernardo Silva, Bakayoko, Mendy, and Thomas Lemar all gone to "big money" clubs.  You've already started to see it with Moussa Dembele moving to Athletico Madrid literally yesterday.  Memphis Depay to Barca rumors heat up every day.   Similar story with Houssem Aouar being linked with various clubs in the prem.  Someone might be able to put together a legit challenge every few years, but for the most part, its the most boring of the "big 5" leagues, because you know exactly what going to happen 90% of the time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 17, 2021, 11:27:52 AM
Sunday “prime time” morning matchup between two of the top 3 team in the PL, two of the most historic clubs in all of English football...and NBC puts it on Peacock. Absolute twats.  Wouldn’t be shocked to see all PL games solely on Peacock by next season...as ESPN does an excellent job with Serie A and Bundesliga coverage and streaming
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 17, 2021, 12:14:34 PM
Sunday “prime time” morning matchup between two of the top 3 team in the PL, two of the most historic clubs in all of English football...and NBC puts it on Peacock. Absolute twats.  Wouldn’t be shocked to see all PL games solely on Peacock by next season...as ESPN does an excellent job with Serie A and Bundesliga coverage and streaming

Well that would be the end of my watching PL soccer on Saturdays and Sundays.  I enjoy it but can find other things to do in its place.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 17, 2021, 12:56:00 PM
Well that would be the end of my watching PL soccer on Saturdays and Sundays.  I enjoy it but can find other things to do in its place.

I’d likely watch far less random PL matches, which would be a real shame. I’d still watch every Liverpool (streaming it online if I had to like today) but less Villa-Brighton or Sheffield United-Everton kinds of matches, which sucks.

Meanwhile, I watched parts of Ajax-Feyenoord, Atalanta-Genoa, and two different Bundesliga matches cause they were right in the ESPN app on my Apple TV, not even ESPN+.  Suck eggs NBC
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 17, 2021, 04:57:16 PM
Ya didn't miss much. Pretty boring game IMO. Hopefully we get a better one in the matchup next weekend.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 17, 2021, 06:18:51 PM
Ya didn't miss much. Pretty boring game IMO. Hopefully we get a better one in the matchup next weekend.

I still watched it, actually got the Sky Sports stream with Martin Tyler and Carra, which was nice, but year, snoozer of a match. Poorly officiated, poor finishing by Liverpool, not much of note except Allison having a couple unreal saves
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on January 18, 2021, 10:26:59 AM
Phil Neville is the new Inter Miami CF Head Coach:

https://www.intermiamicf.com/en/post/2021/01/18/inter-miami-cf-names-phil-neville-head-coach
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on January 20, 2021, 01:10:47 PM
Matthew Hoppe now has 5 goals in his last 3 Bundesliga games. He is the first American to score in three straight Bundesliga games since....Clint Mathis 2004. Eric Wynalda also did it in 1992.

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1351967472329453570?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 21, 2021, 02:04:02 PM
Ronaldo scores his 760th goal yesterday, across all competitions.  Incredible achievement.  Deemed a world record, immediately disputed by the Czech FA due to a claim that Josef Bican scored 821 “official” goals in his career.  Besides the fact that any claims on goal records all scored before 1950 are a bit dodgy due to the quality and level of competition, nearly half those goals were scored as he played through WWII when most top players were fighting in the war.  Scoring 7 times in a 10-1 win during wartime is a nice way to pat your stats  ;D

Regardless, the fact that there it’s very likely Ronaldo breaks that record as he plays till 38-39, save for injury, given his insane fitness.  Truly remarkable given he spent all but a single season of his career playing for monster clubs at the highest level and was often a one man show for Portugal internationally
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 21, 2021, 03:53:00 PM
First home loss in the Premier League in almost 4 years for Liverpool, and it comes against Burnley of all teams.  Also only 1 goal in the last 5 games, that's gotta turn around very quickly if they're gonna mount a serious title defense.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 21, 2021, 06:24:24 PM
First home loss in the Premier League in almost 4 years for Liverpool, and it comes against Burnley of all teams.  Also only 1 goal in the last 5 games, that's gotta turn around very quickly if they're gonna mount a serious title defense.

I know there have been injuries but they are just SHOCKINGLY anemic offensively. I’m gonna give him the benefit of the doubt as he’s just recently returned to fitness, but Thiago has been very underwhelming. And I’ll admit I wasn’t the biggest fan of the signing, but Jota surpassed all my expectations and they BADLY miss him at this point.

They need help on the wing somehow. Forget title defense, missing out on top 4 is a very real worry.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 21, 2021, 06:52:16 PM
Is Jurgen wearing on the team?  Similar thing happened at Dortmund.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 21, 2021, 09:12:49 PM
Is Jurgen wearing on the team?  Similar thing happened at Dortmund.

I don’t know if I’d go that far, they’ve really been snake bitten by injuries, couple that with some guys out of form, and it can snowball. Love Firmino, but he’s not been good. Salah has been pretty subpar, which isn’t great when you factor in all the media drama. VVD is kind of the squad’s overall leader, so that certainly doesn’t help. And Fabinho has proven to be a very capable center back, but they really miss him bossing the midfield.

They just look uninspired, which is odd for them
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on January 22, 2021, 08:40:50 AM
It's a mix of things. The CB injuries are tough, especially when Matip can't stay fit for more than a week or two at a time. Thiago missed three months. Jota will probably miss that much time as well.

And I know every club is dealing with it, but no fans is a blow. Their style feeds off that energy and emotion.

This reminds me more of City last season than Klopp's last season at Dortmund.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2021, 08:42:48 AM
I don’t know if I’d go that far, they’ve really been snake bitten by injuries, couple that with some guys out of form, and it can snowball. Love Firmino, but he’s not been good. Salah has been pretty subpar, which isn’t great when you factor in all the media drama. VVD is kind of the squad’s overall leader, so that certainly doesn’t help. And Fabinho has proven to be a very capable center back, but they really miss him bossing the midfield.

They just look uninspired, which is odd for them

It's a mix of things. The CB injuries are tough, especially when Matip can't stay fit for more than a week or two at a time. Thiago missed three months. Jota will probably miss that much time as well.

And I know every club is dealing with it, but no fans is a blow. Their style feeds off that energy and emotion.

This reminds me more of City last season than Klopp's last season at Dortmund.


Thanks to you both.  Makes sense. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 22, 2021, 01:34:33 PM
Sunday “prime time” morning matchup between two of the top 3 team in the PL, two of the most historic clubs in all of English football...and NBC puts it on Peacock. Absolute twats.  Wouldn’t be shocked to see all PL games solely on Peacock by next season...as ESPN does an excellent job with Serie A and Bundesliga coverage and streaming

I was speaking out of frustration, but man this was quick

https://twitter.com/ourand_sbj/status/1352700248800579588?s=21

The PL had such incredible momentum in the US and this is going to kill it dead
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2021, 01:36:48 PM
I was speaking out of frustration, but man this was quick

https://twitter.com/ourand_sbj/status/1352700248800579588?s=21

The PL had such incredible momentum in the US and this is going to kill it dead


Maybe they'll just move the coverage to USA?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2021, 02:34:08 PM
Reading a big more on this, NBCSN was (a distant) second behind ESPN in the dedicated sports channels.  Ahead of FS1.  What's worrisome about this is if NBC doesn't see a future in their network, will Fox?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 22, 2021, 02:40:17 PM
Reading a big more on this, NBCSN was (a distant) second behind ESPN in the dedicated sports channels.  Ahead of FS1.  What's worrisome about this is if NBC doesn't see a future in their network, will Fox?

At first blush, it feels like FS1 has more properties. Especially with BTN being lumped in. Between college football and basketball and some soccer. NBCSN had PL, some NHL, the Olympics, and maybe an occasional CFB game? Maybe their racing coverage gets eyeballs? I can’t imagine rugby on the weekend or assorted minor sports do
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on January 22, 2021, 03:39:31 PM
https://twitter.com/kevinmdraper/status/1352701953571225600?s=19

I'm really interested to see how this works out. Because on the surface I don't know if it makes a ton of sense.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on January 22, 2021, 07:29:41 PM
Big day in Women's Soccer.

NWSL draft is tonight. Trinity Rodman, son of Dennis, was the 2nd overall pick. She played her Freshman season at Washington State. Very speedy, elite finisher, lots of youth National Team experience. She's 18.

Soon to be Stanford graduate, midfielder Catarina "Cat" Marcario, was declared eligible by FIFA to play for the U.S. Women's National Team. Superstar midfielder from San Diego (Surf) moved to the U.S. at 12 from Brazil in search of the American Dream with her family. She became a U.S. citizen this past October.

Marcario is a two time Missouri Athletic Club/Hermann Trophy winner as a midfielder at Stanford. And she was a two time National Champion. She is one of the best Women's college players in recent memory. She decided to forgo her final season at Stanford, and decided to sign with European Champion, Olympique Lyonnais.

3 minutes into her 2nd game, and first career start...get...in...Cat.

https://twitter.com/USWNT/status/1352772097303568384?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on January 23, 2021, 03:12:57 PM
Josh Sargent with a top class goal for Werder Bremen.

https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1353064099899301888?s=19



(Tyler Adams also scoring in the Bundesliga today.)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on February 03, 2021, 09:36:55 AM
Daryl Dike was loaned from Orlando City to Barnsley, and, he will be eligible for Saturday's game v Derby County. Barnsley also plays Chelsea in the 5th round of F.A. Cup next week.

I liked his play out of  U of Virginia, strong debut MLS effort with 8 goals in 17 games.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on February 03, 2021, 10:23:33 AM
Really hope some of these MLS guys impress during these loan spells and stay on.  Championship football is an excellent level to grow and progress and a step up from MLS.  Doesn’t have to be EPL or bust
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on February 03, 2021, 10:42:07 AM
It's a good opportunity for Dike. Well earned. It also doesn't have to be Europe or bust. I support the game at all levels, Men and Women. That includes MLS, NWSL, College, youth, prep, team, individual etc...

Some college teams opening their Spring Seasons today.

Too Drawer Spring Rankings:

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/college-soccer-national-rankings/women

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/college-soccer-national-rankings/men

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on February 03, 2021, 04:27:48 PM
Brighton over Liverpool today. Shocker!  BHA now in good form and has probably done enough to save themselves from relegation as they are 10 points up on Fulham. Sheffield United have won three of five, could they be finding form to climb out of the relegation zone and pass Burnley or Newcastle?  They have three matches against Burnley, Fulham, and Newcastle that are certainly winnable, as well as matches against Southhampton, Leeds, and Brighton. That would be one of the great escapes in history.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on February 03, 2021, 05:56:40 PM
Brighton is good enough to stay up. I think Burnley is too.

Four teams fighting for one spot with Newcastle obviously having a big head start.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 04, 2021, 04:39:43 PM
Jose survive the season at Spurs?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 04, 2021, 07:39:32 PM
Jose survive the season at Spurs?

He will.

But I don't know how they solve the problems with the current roster.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on February 04, 2021, 08:09:40 PM
He will.

But I don't know how they solve the problems with the current roster.

They’ll sell Kane after this season.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 04, 2021, 08:56:59 PM
They’ll sell Kane after this season.

And that will improve the team how?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 04, 2021, 09:29:20 PM
They’ll sell Kane after this season.

Not a chance.  The market will still be depressed due to no fans.  Levy wont sell for less than record setting money.

2022, i could agree with that.

#unleashDele
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 07, 2021, 12:36:24 PM
Harry Kane is good.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on February 14, 2021, 10:31:23 AM
Daryl Dike was loaned from Orlando City to Barnsley, and, he will be eligible for Saturday's game v Derby County. Barnsley also plays Chelsea in the 5th round of F.A. Cup next week.

I liked his play out of  U of Virginia, strong debut MLS effort with 8 goals in 17 games.

Darly Dike gets a road start at 2nd place Brentford, helps set up a goal in 2-0 win for Barnsley.


https://twitter.com/BrianSciaretta/status/1360963940021374977?s=19

https://twitter.com/BarnsleyFC/status/1360971560144674820?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 28, 2021, 12:33:57 PM
Is Bale back?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on March 03, 2021, 01:45:28 PM
Barnsley is seeking its 6th straight league win since Daryl Dike has joined the team, today at Queens Park Rangers. And, he's scored again w/a near post header.


https://twitter.com/UsmntU/status/1367195910053183497?s=19

https://twitter.com/BarnsleyFC/status/1367198149048156166?s=19

https://twitter.com/MenInBlazers/status/1364681656683085831?s=19

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on March 04, 2021, 01:57:34 PM
Fulham robbed of a point vs. Tottenham.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 04, 2021, 02:04:09 PM
Fulham robbed of a point vs. Tottenham.

Nope.   Handball rule is clear as day.  Can't score a goal off of any handling by the attacking team.  It sucks, but it's following the Laws.

Funny enough, that rule was put into place after Fernando Llorente's hip goal vs Man City in the Champions League quarterfinal that Spurs won.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on March 04, 2021, 02:35:31 PM
Nope.   Handball rule is clear as day.  Can't score a goal off of any handling by the attacking team.  It sucks, but it's following the Laws.

Funny enough, that rule was put into place after Fernando Llorente's hip goal vs Man City in the Champions League quarterfinal that Spurs won.

I'm more upset with the rule than this particular decision, but the rule has not been applied consistently this year either.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 04, 2021, 05:16:33 PM
Nope.   Handball rule is clear as day.  Can't score a goal off of any handling by the attacking team.  It sucks, but it's following the Laws.

Funny enough, that rule was put into place after Fernando Llorente's hip goal vs Man City in the Champions League quarterfinal that Spurs won.

It does follow the letter of the law. But jeebus, that was not a real hand ball.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 04, 2021, 06:00:15 PM
It does follow the letter of the law. But jeebus, that was not a real hand ball.

Neither was Sissoko's in the CL final.  The laws are the laws, good or bad.

Try reffing with some of the rules in place.  The parents are the best!  (Especially offsides.)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on March 05, 2021, 09:34:33 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/handball-rule-law-ifab-b1812991.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 05, 2021, 10:17:52 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/handball-rule-law-ifab-b1812991.html

Good.

Now fix offsides.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 05, 2021, 10:26:43 AM
Good.

Now fix offsides.


How would you fix it?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 05, 2021, 10:44:50 AM

How would you fix it?

Part of it is that VAR is broken.  Thr red and blue lines are crap. Especially when the camera angle isn't dead on.  If they are going to use VAR, there needs to be a system of cameras on field level to get the proper angle.  Think pylon cam but it would have to be something that could cover the length of the field.

Better define the body parts that can be offside.  I don't think a shoulder is offsides.   I know you can score with your head, but don't think that should be offsides either.

So basically, feet and legs.  When I AR, I'm watching the attacker and the defender and listening for the kick.  Trying to watch two whole bodies is impossible, if the focus is on the legs, it would make more sense.

I do like the change that the flag stays down until the offsides attacker touches the ball.  The attackers isn't offsides until the ball is touched and they have the option to bail out and concede possession.


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 05, 2021, 11:19:30 AM
Part of it is that VAR is broken.  Thr red and blue lines are crap. Especially when the camera angle isn't dead on.  If they are going to use VAR, there needs to be a system of cameras on field level to get the proper angle.  Think pylon cam but it would have to be something that could cover the length of the field.

Better define the body parts that can be offside.  I don't think a shoulder is offsides.   I know you can score with your head, but don't think that should be offsides either.

So basically, feet and legs.  When I AR, I'm watching the attacker and the defender and listening for the kick.  Trying to watch two whole bodies is impossible, if the focus is on the legs, it would make more sense.

I do like the change that the flag stays down until the offsides attacker touches the ball.  The attackers isn't offsides until the ball is touched and they have the option to bail out and concede possession.

Agreed.  They've lost the spirit of the rule.  I love when a player is ruled offsides because their outstretched hand or arm is beyond a defender when they are leaning forward.  Or a player kept "onside" despite their entire body being beyond a defender cause the defender's arm is dragging backwards and their hand just reaches past the attacking player's body.

Its largely been good for determining right or wrong indirect offsides by players not involved in the play that may have drawn a flag in the past, but otherwise its shambolic in my opinion.   The judgement calls in "build up" reviews that remove good goals are especially awful IMO.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 05, 2021, 11:20:33 AM
Part of it is that VAR is broken.  Thr red and blue lines are crap. Especially when the camera angle isn't dead on.  If they are going to use VAR, there needs to be a system of cameras on field level to get the proper angle.  Think pylon cam but it would have to be something that could cover the length of the field.

Better define the body parts that can be offside.  I don't think a shoulder is offsides.   I know you can score with your head, but don't think that should be offsides either.

So basically, feet and legs.  When I AR, I'm watching the attacker and the defender and listening for the kick.  Trying to watch two whole bodies is impossible, if the focus is on the legs, it would make more sense.

I do like the change that the flag stays down until the offsides attacker touches the ball.  The attackers isn't offsides until the ball is touched and they have the option to bail out and concede possession.



Thanks and I agree.  I still thik VAR should be used for this though.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on March 05, 2021, 12:18:28 PM
Application of handball has been wildly inconsistent, but changing the rule midseason the day after a controversy is wild.

Agree with ZFB on offside and VAR. I'd only count torso, like a track race. They also need to fix these cameras to be exact if they're going to call it so tight.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 05, 2021, 01:00:33 PM
Application of handball has been wildly inconsistent, but changing the rule midseason the day after a controversy is wild.

Agree with ZFB on offside and VAR. I'd only count torso, like a track race. They also need to fix these cameras to be exact if they're going to call it so tight.

IFAB said it'd effect 7/1 but associations can adopt it now, tbf.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on March 05, 2021, 04:22:49 PM
There's something about the offsides rule that bugs me. I'll probably do a poor job of explaining this because I'm a newer soccer viewer, but I'll give it a shot.

If there are two defenders trying to cover three forward runs and a cross incoming. Striker A and B are onside. Striker B is making a run and is narrowly offside . Defender 1 goes with Striker A. Defender 2, unsure if Striker C is offside, goes with Striker C. The ball falls to Striker B who is legally onside, and he finishes. This used to be blown as offsides because Striker C influenced the play, even if he didn't touch the ball. Now with VAR, it's a good goal.

I was venting about the handball rule yesterday because Fulham was penalized, but it's the offsides rule/interpretation that drives me nuts.

Some common sense has to be applied as well. Werner's arm being offsides because he pointed to tell his teammate where he wanted the ball. Insanity.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 05, 2021, 04:39:04 PM
There's something about the offsides rule that bugs me. I'll probably do a poor job of explaining this because I'm a newer soccer viewer, but I'll give it a shot.

If there are two defenders trying to cover three forward runs and a cross incoming. Striker A and B are onside. Striker B is making a run and is narrowly offside . Defender 1 goes with Striker A. Defender 2, unsure if Striker C is offside, goes with Striker C. The ball falls to Striker B who is legally onside, and he finishes. This used to be blown as offsides because Striker C influenced the play, even if he didn't touch the ball. Now with VAR, it's a good goal.

I was venting about the handball rule yesterday because Fulham was penalized, but it's the offsides rule/interpretation that drives me nuts.

Some common sense has to be applied as well. Werner's arm being offsides because he pointed to tell his teammate where he wanted the ball. Insanity.

If the unmarked, offsides attacker influences the play, it should be offsides.   

There was a play yesterday where it almost looked like Kane was doing what you described, but nothing was called.  Don't remember if the shot was saved or missed.  I'll try to find a clip of it.

But it's 100% a judgement call if the player was involved with in the play or not.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 05, 2021, 06:02:21 PM
If the unmarked, offsides attacker influences the play, it should be offsides.   

There was a play yesterday where it almost looked like Kane was doing what you described, but nothing was called.  Don't remember if the shot was saved or missed.  I'll try to find a clip of it.

But it's 100% a judgement call if the player was involved with in the play or not.

Agreed.  If a striker is offsides and steps over a ball or moves away from it due to being offsides, It won’t be an issue. If the keeper moves to cover said striker, regardless if he is playing the ball or not, it’s blown offsides. I think largely VAR is helpful and easy here cause when stopped and slowed those judgmental calls are aided greatly
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on March 05, 2021, 06:13:04 PM
https://youtu.be/q275sxuaUhY

This is where I think VAR fails. The striker is offside and jumps at the ball. The defender has to play the cross because the flag isnt up. The ball falls to an onside player after the weak clearance and the result is a goal.

In my mind, this is offside. And this is one of many examples this season. This cost Fulham two points.

If I'm wrong, I'm willing to learn. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 05, 2021, 06:35:53 PM
https://youtu.be/q275sxuaUhY

This is where I think VAR fails. The striker is offside and jumps at the ball. The defender has to play the cross because the flag isnt up. The ball falls to an onside player after the weak clearance and the result is a goal.

In my mind, this is offside. And this is one of many examples this season. This cost Fulham two points.

If I'm wrong, I'm willing to learn. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

That play happens countless times a game and nothing happens. Player is offsides, pass goes over their head or past them, defender clears, official never even raises the flag.

 It’s only an issue because of the poor clearance. I get the frustration, but Andersen leaves Haller to go play the clearance. And Haller was short of the cross (think of an uncatchable pass in football negative DPI), and then was no longer involved in the play or directly marked by a defender.  I think if Andersen sticks with Haller and the other CB hade to move up to make the clearance as a result and the same play happened, then it would have been blown dead.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on March 06, 2021, 11:07:21 AM
Barnsley is seeking its 6th straight league win since Daryl Dike has joined the team, today at Queens Park Rangers. And, he's scored again w/a near post header.


https://twitter.com/UsmntU/status/1367195910053183497?s=19

https://twitter.com/BarnsleyFC/status/1367198149048156166?s=19

https://twitter.com/MenInBlazers/status/1364681656683085831?s=19

Another day, another Daryl Dike goal, 1-0 Barnsley. Just inside the 18, Rocket, top shelf, near post, game winner. 7 straight wins since he joined the team.

https://twitter.com/BrianSciaretta/status/1368233523879018502?s=19

https://twitter.com/MenInBlazers/status/1368234566608158721?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 06, 2021, 12:10:45 PM
Arse got jobbed by that handball no call.   ;D :D ;D :D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 07, 2021, 02:55:01 PM
Is Bale back?

Bump
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on March 07, 2021, 08:08:34 PM
Bump

Crazy what happens when the manager, you know, starts to play his best players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on March 10, 2021, 01:44:40 PM
Three straight games with a goal for Josh Sargent, two game winners, and the only goal in a 1-1 draw for Werder Bremen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 10, 2021, 01:57:35 PM
Three straight games with a goal for Josh Sargent, two game winners, and the only goal in a 1-1 draw for Werder Bremen.



Werder won 2-0
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on March 10, 2021, 02:41:12 PM

Werder won 2-0

Yep. 2-0 win today, 1-1 draw last game, and 2-1 win prior to that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 12, 2021, 08:58:10 PM
Steve Cherundolo named the new manager of USL’s Las Vegas Lights.  Selfishly, kind of bummed.

He’s spent the last 6 years after retiring coaching in Germany. With Hannover, but more recently with Stuttgart and then the German national team. He wasn’t getting HC looks but that’s nice experience. He knows Jesse Marsch from the USMNT, so was hoping when he inevitably gets a Bundesliga job in the next 1-2 years, Dolo could join him.

If it was the MLS, ok I could see it, but the last manager of LVL was Eric Wynalda who gets mid level jobs based solely on his name.

I get the migration back to the States, but Dolo had been in Germany for 20 years and was very happy and comfortable there
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 14, 2021, 11:49:25 AM
unnatural carnal knowledge
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 14, 2021, 12:09:47 PM
Erik Lamela is a beautiful human being.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 14, 2021, 12:16:25 PM
Erik Lamela is a beautiful human being.

So left footed that he had to pull a rabona there.   8-)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on March 17, 2021, 11:26:00 AM
26 player U.S. Camp Roster for Austria vs Jamaica and Northern Ireland in March.

7 players are only available for the first game.

15 players came through U.S. Developmental Academies.

10 Countries.

16 are 22 years old or younger.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on March 17, 2021, 03:57:32 PM
Another day, another Daryl Dike goal, 1-0 Barnsley. Just inside the 18, Rocket, top shelf, near post, game winner. 7 straight wins since he joined the team.

https://twitter.com/BrianSciaretta/status/1368233523879018502?s=19

https://twitter.com/MenInBlazers/status/1368234566608158721?s=19

Barnsley has now acquired 28 out of a possible 30 points since Daryl Dike joined the team. He joins Josh Sargent, Gio Reyna, Christian Pulisic, Tim Weah, and Nicholas Gioachinni, as U.S. Camp Forwards this month.

Two more goals for Dike today in Barnsley win over Wycombe, 3-1 Final:

https://twitter.com/OrlandoCitySC/status/1372282883772194817?s=19

https://twitter.com/BarnsleyFC/status/1372283310450302982?s=19

https://twitter.com/OrlandoCitySC/status/1372289888503140353?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 17, 2021, 04:24:27 PM
Jeez just looked at the Championship table.  So we are going to see Norwich again next year.  Will they spend some money this time?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on March 31, 2021, 10:27:14 AM
Daryl Dike has been getting some interest from Everton. EFL fans Player of the Month


https://twitter.com/FootballLeagueW/status/1376831143006310400?s=19


stlCITY founding partner and jersey sponsor:

https://twitter.com/stlCITYsc/status/1377277926765432832?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on March 31, 2021, 11:41:49 AM
Jeez just looked at the Championship table.  So we are going to see Norwich again next year.  Will they spend some money this time?

probably not. Which is why I've been rooting against them. Like Fulham, they're the classic yo yo team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 02, 2021, 06:50:26 PM
Eddie Howe looking like the new man at Celtic. Good for him.  Still only 43. He’s a hell of a manager who did remarkable things considering the constraints at Bournemouth.  Shocked he never got serious consideration for better EPL jobs.  But now he has the chance to manage a club with true title and European chances.  Great audition to get a job back down South
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on April 05, 2021, 10:37:44 AM
Been a while since Bobby Convey: (Daryl Dike)

https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1379087910809518085?s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on April 09, 2021, 03:56:45 PM
That's probably it for Fulham's survival chances. So many missed opportunities.

It's certainly possible that Newcastle loses their next 3 or 4, but 3 points up with 2 games is likely too much to overcome.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 09, 2021, 04:45:50 PM
That's probably it for Fulham's survival chances. So many missed opportunities.

It's certainly possible that Newcastle loses their next 3 or 4, but 3 points up with 2 games is likely too much to overcome.

Newcastle is pretty bleak though, last weekend not withstanding.  Also some rumblings of Mike Ashley wanting to tank the season and then sell, as the EFL has a lower bar for new owners than the PL does.

Watford and Norwich have pretty much locked up promotion.  5 teams fighting for the playoff spots.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 09, 2021, 04:55:16 PM
Newcastle is pretty bleak though, last weekend not withstanding.  Also some rumblings of Mike Ashley wanting to tank the season and then sell, as the EFL has a lower bar for new owners than the PL does.

Mike Ashley has been trying to sell since they got relegated the first time more than a decade ago.  It’s a regular tradition
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 11, 2021, 12:50:13 PM
https://twitter.com/RobDauster/status/1381299897002029059?s=19

Fire Jose
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on April 14, 2021, 09:33:44 PM
Better name for the Champions League Semi's?  Oil Clasico, or Abu Derby?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 15, 2021, 10:37:26 PM
Arsenal beating Slavia Praga is about the only way I could ever pull for arse to win.  Good win over those racist pieces of shït.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/lacazette-arsenal-slavia-knee-racism-23922334.amp?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/lacazette-arsenal-slavia-knee-racism-23922334.amp?__twitter_impression=true)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on April 18, 2021, 09:58:02 AM
Looking like a Euro superleague is becoming more likely.

LONDON — A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html?smid=tw-share

Teams who have committed to it include:
Liverpool, Man United, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid,  Juventus, Internazionale and A.C. Milan.
So far no commitments from Bundesliga or Ligue 1 clubs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Cooby Snacks on April 18, 2021, 11:11:15 AM
Looking like a Euro superleague is becoming more likely.

LONDON — A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html?smid=tw-share

Teams who have committed to it include:
Liverpool, Man United, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid,  Juventus, Internazionale and A.C. Milan.
So far no commitments from Bundesliga or Ligue 1 clubs.

You gotta admire Spurs’ commitment to never winning anything.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on April 19, 2021, 07:17:47 AM
You gotta admire Spurs’ commitment to never winning anything.

Speaking of Spurs, Mourinho has been sacked.
Better to be in the Super League and lose than not be in it at all.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on April 19, 2021, 08:03:02 AM
This is getting fun.

@JoePompliano: BREAKING: UEFA President Ceferin has confirmed that all players in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the World Cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 19, 2021, 08:48:59 AM
This is getting fun.

@JoePompliano: BREAKING: UEFA President Ceferin has confirmed that all players in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the World Cup.

I'm not sure UEFA can ban players from a FIFA competition, but if anything can be done to torpedo this ridiculousness, I'm all in favor. I believe they can, however, ban them from Champions League & from the Euros. What might be most interesting is WC Qualifying. If suddenly ESL players can't compete, it might impact the qualification of some of the mid-level qualifiers, though that might be a short term issue with the 48-team World Cup coming soon.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 19, 2021, 09:09:42 AM
What will be interesting too is if those teams are banned from European competitions next year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on April 19, 2021, 09:18:59 AM
I'm not sure UEFA can ban players from a FIFA competition, but if anything can be done to torpedo this ridiculousness, I'm all in favor. I believe they can, however, ban them from Champions League & from the Euros. What might be most interesting is WC Qualifying. If suddenly ESL players can't compete, it might impact the qualification of some of the mid-level qualifiers, though that might be a short term issue with the 48-team World Cup coming soon.

If these teams are in the Super League, they probably won't want to be in the Champions League anyhow.
I can't imagine many national teams are going to play along with UEFA trying to ban many of their best players from the World Cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 19, 2021, 09:28:56 AM
If these teams are in the Super League, they probably won't want to be in the Champions League anyhow.
I can't imagine many national teams are going to play along with UEFA trying to ban many of their best players from the World Cup.

I think they mean ban them from next year's champions league.  Which sounds good until the TV partners say...."uh what?"  Ditto kicking them out of domestic leagues.

I kinda think the PL should demote all six to League 2 so they can generate revenue for the EFL.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: cheebs09 on April 19, 2021, 09:42:29 AM
As someone who follows soccer from a distance, what is the motivation for this? It sounds like it is pretty much the Champions League without some of the smaller teams. I’m guessing just more money for these clubs?

Would it replace the Euro Cup and Champions League? It wouldn’t replace these teams normal league play right?

This kind of sounds like if the P5 schools would create their own Basketball tournament. Or the golfers that want to create their own tour.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on April 19, 2021, 10:04:32 AM
As someone who follows soccer from a distance, what is the motivation for this? It sounds like it is pretty much the Champions League without some of the smaller teams. I’m guessing just more money for these clubs?

Would it replace the Euro Cup and Champions League? It wouldn’t replace these teams normal league play right?

This kind of sounds like if the P5 schools would create their own Basketball tournament. Or the golfers that want to create their own tour.

It's all about the $$$$. Basically, the big clubs say "we're driving all the revenue, so we want a bigger share of it."
Not sure if it would eliminate the Champions League, but it's hard to imagine these clubs playing in both competitions. That would seem a lot of wear-and-tear on your star athletes.

And yeah, this is the equivalent of Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, LSU, Texas, Georgia, LSU, Florida, Texas A&M, Michigan and Penn State telling the NCAA to f--- off, they're going to do their own football playoff at the end of every season.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 19, 2021, 10:23:45 AM
It's all about the $$$$. Basically, the big clubs say "we're driving all the revenue, so we want a bigger share of it."
Not sure if it would eliminate the Champions League, but it's hard to imagine these clubs playing in both competitions. That would seem a lot of wear-and-tear on your star athletes.

And yeah, this is the equivalent of Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, LSU, Texas, Georgia, LSU, Florida, Texas A&M, Michigan and Penn State telling the NCAA to f--- off, they're going to do their own football playoff at the end of every season.

Bigger share and less "stress".  Especially for EPL teams.  Don't have to fight for CL berths in domestic play each year.  Don't need to worry as much about qualifying stages playing on the road against annoying teams in hostile stadiums like Red Star in Serbia or the Russian teams, etc...

As a Liverpool supporter, I absolutely hate it.  And its very telling that this has been widely panned by almost everyone.  Nobody except the owners are excited about it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 19, 2021, 10:29:36 AM
I think a more robust revenue sharing arrangement, with something akin to tourney credits, both within Europe and its various domestic leagues, would have done the sport some good.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 19, 2021, 11:13:16 AM
I'd say that there is no way that this will actually work, except for the blatant bribery at FIFA and UEFA, so who knows.

I hate it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 19, 2021, 01:19:43 PM
I'd say that there is no way that this will actually work, except for the blatant bribery at FIFA and UEFA, so who knows.

I hate it.

I can see the bribes at FIFA preventing any banning of players in the “Super League” from playing for national teams like have been bandied about.

However I don’t know how anyone at UEFA is swayed.  Cause this chops out their legs and their greatest sources of revenue
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on April 19, 2021, 03:29:21 PM
Marquette Men’s Soccer received its first NCAA Tourney bid since 2013. They play LMU in the Round of 32.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChuckyChip on April 19, 2021, 04:37:17 PM
probably not. Which is why I've been rooting against them. Like Fulham, they're the classic yo yo team.

Ouch!  Big Norwich fan here.  I'm not sure how you can root against them - they play a very entertaining, open, free flowing style.  They are not owned by some mega-billionaire and have to do things the hard way by developing their own talent and making prudent acquisitions.  They tried to make it in the Premier League last year with the core of their Championship team and it didn't work.  Besides selling off Ben Godfrey (Everton) and Jamal Lewis (Newcastle) they were able to keep the club intact and earn another promotion.  They will probably have to sell off a few more pieces (Emi Buendia, Max Aarons, and possibly Todd Cantwell) during the summer, but hopefully they will invest that money in a stronger roster.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 19, 2021, 07:24:35 PM
Ouch!  Big Norwich fan here.  I'm not sure how you can root against them - they play a very entertaining, open, free flowing style.  They are not owned by some mega-billionaire and have to do things the hard way by developing their own talent and making prudent acquisitions.  They tried to make it in the Premier League last year with the core of their Championship team and it didn't work.  Besides selling off Ben Godfrey (Everton) and Jamal Lewis (Newcastle) they were able to keep the club intact and earn another promotion.  They will probably have to sell off a few more pieces (Emi Buendia, Max Aarons, and possibly Todd Cantwell) during the summer, but hopefully they will invest that money in a stronger roster.

Cause they never do anything.   Nobody is rooting against them, just not excited for them to come and finish in the bottom 5 at best, yet again. It’s no offense to them.  Their owners are a cute story but they don’t have the money to compete.  They’ve been up and down 3 different times in the last 8 seasons.  There are plenty of small market, non billionaire clubs that stay up. See the same clubs yo-yo up and make no noise is just not as entertaining.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Warrior Code on April 20, 2021, 12:18:33 PM
Marquette Men’s Soccer received its first NCAA Tourney bid since 2013. They play LMU in the Round of 32.

Winner likely gets blue blood Indiana. Their soccer team is what Hoosier fans think the basketball team should be.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 20, 2021, 12:44:08 PM
My favorite narrative of this Super League thing is the angsty Brits large vocal refrain of "these greedy American corporate owners that have stolen these clubs from the working class fans that formed them".  Like the English Premier League was some plucky upstart local league before Americans bought clubs in the last 20 years.  Americans are the reason ticket prices are too high.

I'm not downplaying their input into this whole situation, but ignoring every other oligarch buying British toys in professional sports to act like its a distinctly American problem is hilarious.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on April 20, 2021, 01:13:16 PM
Word is that Chelsea is pulling out of the Super League.
Edit: And now Man City as well.

These clubs fold easier than Southampton's back line.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: cheebs09 on April 20, 2021, 01:13:32 PM
Winner likely gets blue blood Indiana. Their soccer team is what Hoosier fans think the basketball team should be.

Hopefully we can knock them off and get Bates to reconsider.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 20, 2021, 01:37:35 PM
Word is that Chelsea is pulling out of the Super League.
Edit: And now Man City as well.

These clubs fold easier than Southampton's back line.

As reported by the Sun.


I hope they do pull out, and deep six this thing right quick.

Edit:  wow, that broke quick. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 20, 2021, 02:03:55 PM
Now Ed Woodward resigned from ManU over this disaster.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on April 20, 2021, 02:46:18 PM
Winner likely gets blue blood Indiana. Their soccer team is what Hoosier fans think the basketball team should be.

Indiana is a strong program. But MU has to get past LMU first.

Marquette played EIGHT OT games, and went 6-1-1 in those games, finding ways to win. One of them the opposing team missed a PK and MU found the winner with 5 seconds left in OT. They had a nice season, and, needed it.

Seton Hall won the Big East Tourney Title for the first time in 30 years with an exciting win over Georgetown. (They had gone 0-1-1 vs Georgetown in two close regular season games) Georgetown is the class of the Big East, recent National Champions, and, a National Power these days. Creighton is often good, not a tourney team this year.

So is the Georgetown Women’s team, a National Power. Xavier had some recent success, but one bid league this year for Big East Women. Butler wasn’t bad.

IU Men’s soccer has been good since the 1970’s. They are second only to SLU in National Titles. (Interestingly enough they have actually had a lot of success over the years with Stl kids, Chris Klein, Will Bruin, Harry Weiss, Pat Noonan, Tommy Meyer, Jack Maher, Kevin Robson etc...) Jerry Yeagley built it for 30 years, Mike Freitag and now Jerry’s son Todd. Very consistent program for several decades.

LMU will be tough. They played well in a good WCC, added a win over UCLA. Top 15 caliber team or so. (BYU and Sant Clara have strong Women’s teams this year)

It’s a unique season. Some leagues played Spring only. Some played fall and Spring. (Interestingly enough the proposed move is to play a split fall and Spring schedule permanently moving forward.) Some teams were able to have a good mix of league and non-conference, while others had to rely mostly upon league play for results this season.

UWM (Milwaukee) made the Women’s NCAA’s after winning the Horizon League. Hopefully Marquette can get back to an NCAA Tourney level more consistently for both the Men and Women.



Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 20, 2021, 03:52:19 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/20/sports/soccer/super-league-collapse.html
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 28, 2021, 08:29:14 AM
Jesse Marsch will be the new manager at Leipzig.  That's a pretty big deal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 29, 2021, 09:57:33 AM
Jesse Marsch will be the new manager at Leipzig.  That's a pretty big deal.

Officially announced.  MASSIVE deal.  Even understanding he was in a pretty dead end situation, I thought Bob Bradley's failure at Swansea was going to be another mark against US managers at the highest level in Europe.  But the Red Bull sports organization is clearly very forward thinking and has a fantastic eye for talent.

In a decade, Marsch went from a US based player with no Euro experience at any level (and scarce National team experience) to the manager of a Champions League level Bundesliga club.  What a story.

Also, pretty amazing story for Nagelsmann
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on May 02, 2021, 05:10:31 PM
For the 7th time this year. Marquette Men’s Soccer has won a game in OT or later. (They have had 9 OT games)

0-0 Final vs LMU. 3-1 PK win, and an NCAA Sweet 16.

They will play the winner of Indiana and St. Francis Brooklyn.



Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 04, 2021, 09:48:03 AM
Mourinho to Roma.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 07, 2021, 11:51:39 AM
Chelsea and Man City make the Champions League Final in Istanbul.

Today, the UK instituted a travel ban to Turkey.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on May 07, 2021, 12:44:09 PM
Chelsea and Man City make the Champions League Final in Istanbul.

Today, the UK instituted a travel ban to Turkey.

Read there is a push to move the game to England. Cheeky.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 07, 2021, 01:42:45 PM
Read there is a push to move the game to England. Cheeky.

Villa Park.  Or Portugal.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 16, 2021, 07:27:42 AM
Good for Leicester.  Their story continues to be amazing.  Best run club in the world?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 26, 2021, 05:10:17 PM
What a Europa League Final. 11-10 in kicks.  Honestly how a shootout should be, there's no excuse for the number of poor pens amongst pros out there.  Emery remains perfect in the Europa League, you can take the manager out of Sevilla, but you can't take the Sevilla out of the manager.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on May 26, 2021, 06:34:23 PM
What a Europa League Final. 11-10 in kicks.  Honestly how a shootout should be, there's no excuse for the number of poor pens amongst pros out there.  Emery remains perfect in the Europa League, you can take the manager out of Sevilla, but you can't take the Sevilla out of the manager.

What a final indeed. Pure joy for the boys from Villarreal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on May 27, 2021, 11:57:26 PM
Former Marquette Women’s Soccer Assistant Coach Hideki Nakada (2009-2012), is the new Women’s Soccer Head Coach at Utah.

After leaving Marquette, (NCAA Tourney every year he was at Marquette) he spent one season at Oregon as an assistant. He then spent the past seven seasons as an assistant at Stanford. (last 3 as Associate ahead Coach) During that time Stanford won 2 National Titles, reached 4 Final Fours, and won 5 Pac 12 Titles.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 04, 2021, 10:57:44 AM
Good to see the USMNT in a competitive match again. Bright start despite no first half goal, but lackluster in the second until the Siebatcheu goal. Glad to see the win and appearance in the final.

At times, I watch this team and get excited about the idea of watching Pulisic, Reyna, McKinnie, Adams, and the rest grow toward 2026. There's some real Golden Generation potential. My biggest worry is finding a defensive anchor. John Brooks might be the guy, he has that Oguchi Onyewu intimidator mold, but will he be around long term?

One thing is for sure, they need to be better to beat Mexico. Fine enough performance to get there, but not close to the peak I hope to see.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 04, 2021, 11:12:59 AM
Good to see the USMNT in a competitive match again. Bright start despite no first half goal, but lackluster in the second until the Siebatcheu goal. Glad to see the win and appearance in the final.

At times, I watch this team and get excited about the idea of watching Pulisic, Reyna, McKinnie, Adams, and the rest grow toward 2026. There's some real Golden Generation potential. My biggest worry is finding a defensive anchor. John Brooks might be the guy, he has that Oguchi Onyewu intimidator mold, but will he be around long term?

One thing is for sure, they need to be better to beat Mexico. Fine enough performance to get there, but not close to the peak I hope to see.

Whats even more exciting to me is how many super talented names are even still in the wings and not in the lineup.  De La Fuente, Daryl Dike, Llanez, Gionacchi, etc...

As for the defense, I keep forgetting how relatively young Brooks still is.  He's just turned 28. He's got 2022 and honestly probably 2026 in him.  He's good.  I think the other promising name is Chris Richards.  I can see those 2 being the first choices in the center come 2022.  It is interesting that the US has a bunch of promising RB/LB but not a ton in the center.

 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 04, 2021, 12:01:55 PM
There have been plenty of promising CBs, none of them have developed though.  Brooks is seen as the cream of the crop, but there was a time when Miazga, Palmer-Brown, Carter-Vickers were all seen as super promising.  Those three are 25, 24, and 23 now; you've got to be getting first team minutes at a decent club by that age, and it just hasn't happened. Richards is still young, and seems to be in Bayern's long-term plans, but the fact that Ream was even in the squad last night should tell you all you need to know.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on June 04, 2021, 12:04:38 PM
Long is solid when healthy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 04, 2021, 04:16:08 PM
There have been plenty of promising CBs, none of them have developed though.  Brooks is seen as the cream of the crop, but there was a time when Miazga, Palmer-Brown, Carter-Vickers were all seen as super promising.  Those three are 25, 24, and 23 now; you've got to be getting first team minutes at a decent club by that age, and it just hasn't happened. Richards is still young, and seems to be in Bayern's long-term plans, but the fact that Ream was even in the squad last night should tell you all you need to know.

He's been a bit better, but I still feel like GREGGGG has an inherent bias from the USMNT structure.  Which manifests itself in these safety blanket players they "know" like Ream (who ive just come to grips with the fact that he will be getting selections till he retires) or Zardes.  Im also puzzled as to why Yueill is racking up caps, much less starting.  I get Lletget, he's versatile and experienced by this point.  But Yueill was odd to me 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 04, 2021, 09:44:45 PM
He's been a bit better, but I still feel like GREGGGG has an inherent bias from the USMNT structure.  Which manifests itself in these safety blanket players they "know" like Ream (who ive just come to grips with the fact that he will be getting selections till he retires) or Zardes.  Im also puzzled as to why Yueill is racking up caps, much less starting.  I get Lletget, he's versatile and experienced by this point.  But Yueill was odd to me

Yueill is great when he's aggressive and spraying the ball across the field, trying to make the decisive pass into the final 1/3. But, since he wasn't doing that at all last night, he's useless.

He's Michael Bradley without the engine or defensive prowess
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on June 06, 2021, 07:44:45 PM
So, is tonight a big deal? Do we care at all? I find myself somewhere in the middle. 5-10 years from now I'm sure I'll care more about Nations League but I just can't seem to get revved up for it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 06, 2021, 08:34:53 PM
So, is tonight a big deal? Do we care at all? I find myself somewhere in the middle. 5-10 years from now I'm sure I'll care more about Nations League but I just can't seem to get revved up for it.

Matchups with Mexico are always a big deal, especially with silverware on the line.  Beating a huge rival is an awesome barometer for a young squad
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 06, 2021, 08:35:55 PM
So, is tonight a big deal? Do we care at all? I find myself somewhere in the middle. 5-10 years from now I'm sure I'll care more about Nations League but I just can't seem to get revved up for it.

It’s a made for TV game that’s better than a friendly. Everyone cares more about the Gold Cup and WC qualifiers.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 06, 2021, 09:32:11 PM
That opening sequence was disastrous. Like 3 bad giveaways in a few seconds, including the one that gave up the goal. Glad they got back in it, but not the most encouraging half and good god is our back line questionable (at best).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 06, 2021, 10:15:00 PM
Tim Ream is AWFUL.  He’s so damn slow.  He’s been torched time and time again.  What a joke that he’s out there
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 06, 2021, 11:29:28 PM
WHAT...A...MATCH.  This team has some cajones.  Horrific officiating, both ways, but my god.  This was fun as hell.

Also, never change scumbag Mexican fans, never change. Stopping the match with homophobic chants, then throwing full and heavy projectiles into the celebrating Americans.  Hopefully Reyna is alright, but they hit their own player in the head with a full cup trying to hurt Americans in the last stoppage.  Absurd
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 06, 2021, 11:31:29 PM
I certainly still have complaints because we a still a very flawed team, but it is impossible not to enjoy a match like that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 06, 2021, 11:32:41 PM
L Tri

Concacaf gonna concacaf.

Weston McKennie should be the captain until further notice.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 06, 2021, 11:37:06 PM
Greg's starting lineup was only slightly less confusing than his subs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: injuryBug on June 07, 2021, 07:53:52 AM
That was a great match.  Loved the way the US fought for eachother and looked like a team out there.  Hopefully this gives them confidence moving forward.

The give aways from the back need to stop though that was awful.  any team that presses up on us we crap our pants
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on June 07, 2021, 10:12:17 AM
I'll admit I was far more into it than I expected. Fun match.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 07, 2021, 11:03:22 AM
I'll admit I was far more into it than I expected. Fun match.

Between the awful referee and Mexican shenanigans, on the pitch and in the stands, I got sucked into it.

If what happened last night with the projectiles hitting players happened at an NBA game, we'd hear about it for weeks. It's shameful that CONCACAF continues to turn a blind eye to it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 07, 2021, 11:37:47 AM
Between the awful referee and Mexican shenanigans, on the pitch and in the stands, I got sucked into it.

If what happened last night with the projectiles hitting players happened at an NBA game, we'd hear about it for weeks. It's shameful that CONCACAF continues to turn a blind eye to it.

We did. Westbrook/popcorn.

I anticipate the shenanigans from last night's game will be top discussion on ESPN for the next couple weeks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 07, 2021, 12:32:58 PM
We did. Westbrook/popcorn.

I anticipate the shenanigans from last night's game will be top discussion on ESPN for the next couple weeks.

I doubt it.  ESPN has a deal with Liga MX and I think a deal with the Mexican National Team.  It will be disregarded like it has been for a decade plus.  It will pop up in interviews or the vignettes US Soccer does, but Mexican fans will continue to get away with it like they always have.  Curbing their standard chant like we saw towards the end of the game might happen, but I doubt the projectiles.  The only thing that may stop it is the players or governing body of Mexican soccer pleading for it, but thats unlikely.

Berhalter's starting lineup was bizarre. No idea why Tyler Adams didnt feature until so late if he was supposedly healthy.  No idea why Ream gets shredded for 85 min and Reggie Cannon doesn't come on until the 105th minute.  No idea why you bring in Musah and only play him 20 min in the last 3 matches, and none in the Nations League.

But I'll take a victory however you get it
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 07, 2021, 12:43:04 PM
If it were football, they would talk about it for the next month.

Basketball, a couple of weeks.

A National League soccer game?  You'll get a day.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 07, 2021, 01:15:16 PM
I doubt it.  ESPN has a deal with Liga MX and I think a deal with the Mexican National Team.  It will be disregarded like it has been for a decade plus.  It will pop up in interviews or the vignettes US Soccer does, but Mexican fans will continue to get away with it like they always have.  Curbing their standard chant like we saw towards the end of the game might happen, but I doubt the projectiles.  The only thing that may stop it is the players or governing body of Mexican soccer pleading for it, but thats unlikely.

Berhalter's starting lineup was bizarre. No idea why Tyler Adams didnt feature until so late if he was supposedly healthy.  No idea why Ream gets shredded for 85 min and Reggie Cannon doesn't come on until the 105th minute.  No idea why you bring in Musah and only play him 20 min in the last 3 matches, and none in the Nations League.

But I'll take a victory however you get it

Yup.

I am highly suspicious that chant first started in the 95th minute.

Concacaf is so chicken-crap when it comes to Mexico

I also don't understand Greg's initial lineup. Leaving Adams out is fine. But if you're going to play 3/5 at the back, you don't leave Ream isolated on one side by himself. And, when you see Ream getting abused repeatedly, you don't leave him in the game in the same position for a 2nd half.

Most of his subs were fine, but they were all making up for his initial blunder.

I don't agree with taking Reyna off as early as he did unless Gio asked for it.

I also don't agree with not cap-tying Musah, unless he asked to just observe.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: injuryBug on June 07, 2021, 03:48:40 PM
If it were football, they would talk about it for the next month.

Basketball, a couple of weeks.

A National League soccer game?  You'll get a day.

Look at Kyrie he almost got hit by a water bottle and the guy was arrested.  2 players did get hit by cups or bottles and nothing will happen.
would be nice to find a way to not have the mexican fans sitting so close to the field for our home games.  Christian should really pick a different corner to celebrate in
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 07, 2021, 03:50:55 PM
Look at Kyrie he almost got hit by a water bottle and the guy was arrested.  2 players did get hit by cups or bottles and nothing will happen.
would be nice to find a way to not have the mexican fans sitting so close to the field for our home games.  Christian should really pick a different corner to celebrate in

Lol.

Victim blaming? Really?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 08, 2021, 07:58:30 AM
5 arrested, not quite sure how you can have sufficient "security footage" to arrest one person for throwing objects, but not the dozen that likely did?  Oh well, progress I guess.

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/07/us-mexico-concacaf-nations-league-final-arrests/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 09, 2021, 10:37:29 PM
Two thoughts from tonight's (and the previous 2 games as well).  1. Why did we not see more of Adams and Aaronson?  They were both excellent tonight. 2. With the emerging talent up top (Sargent's been known for a while, but Dike, Hoppe, and Siebatcheu) Jozy should not be on the plane to Qatar.  He'll be 33 for the WC, and I would absolutely much rather have the younger players in that role.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 09, 2021, 11:59:01 PM
Two thoughts from tonight's (and the previous 2 games as well).  1. Why did we not see more of Adams and Aaronson?  They were both excellent tonight. 2. With the emerging talent up top (Sargent's been known for a while, but Dike, Hoppe, and Siebatcheu) Jozy should not be on the plane to Qatar.  He'll be 33 for the WC, and I would absolutely much rather have the younger players in that role.

HELLLLLLLLLL NAWWWWW.

Thanks for all the memories Jozy, but there is zero reason for an aging striker, who has had trouble staying healthy, playing in a second tier league to be on the roster over young potential studs playing week in and out against the top European competition.  Jozy has 20 goals total over the last 4 MLS seasons, so it’s not like he’s even been in fine  form.  He and Michael Bradley can post up and watch the matches together at one of their plush residences in T Dot bought with the huge checks they’ve cashed over the last 7-8 years.

I also want no part of Jordan Morris on that roster either, personally
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on June 11, 2021, 03:34:56 PM
HELLLLLLLLLL NAWWWWW.

Thanks for all the memories Jozy, but there is zero reason for an aging striker, who has had trouble staying healthy, playing in a second tier league to be on the roster over young potential studs playing week in and out against the top European competition.  Jozy has 20 goals total over the last 4 MLS seasons, so it’s not like he’s even been in fine  form.  He and Michael Bradley can post up and watch the matches together at one of their plush residences in T Dot bought with the huge checks they’ve cashed over the last 7-8 years.

I also want no part of Jordan Morris on that roster either, personally

I'm with you on Morris, but I'm pretty confident that he'll be there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 11, 2021, 03:47:11 PM
I'm with you on Morris, but I'm pretty confident that he'll be there.

I still hold onto hope that somehow Berhalter doesn't make the WC as manager...which I know is highly unlikely.   But if he does, I agree with you.  He's still very much legacy USMNT and there are a couple darlings still in the pool.  Morris is one.  Zardes is another but I think his time has thankfully passed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 11, 2021, 05:05:25 PM
I still hold onto hope that somehow Berhalter doesn't make the WC as manager...which I know is highly unlikely.   But if he does, I agree with you.  He's still very much legacy USMNT and there are a couple darlings still in the pool.  Morris is one.  Zardes is another but I think his time has thankfully passed.
.

Gregg will coach 2022. Which is fine, ultimately.

The big hire will be the coach for the 2026 cycle when this group is reaching its full potential and the WC is on home soil.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 11, 2021, 07:30:04 PM
Gregg will coach 2022. Which is fine, ultimately.

The big hire will be the coach for the 2026 cycle when this group is reaching its full potential and the WC is on home soil.

It will be interesting to see who coaches that cycle. Have to think with the lines of Pulisic, Reyna, McKinnie, Dest, & hosting you could shoot higher than we often seem to.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 12, 2021, 11:55:07 AM
Incredibly scary situation in Denmark right now.  Don't know why they kept the cameras on him as long as they did, cut to studio ffs.

Update: match has been suspended.  Only decision possible really.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 12, 2021, 12:21:09 PM
Incredibly scary situation in Denmark right now.  Don't know why they kept the cameras on him as long as they did, cut to studio ffs.

Update: match has been suspended.  Only decision possible really.

Match rightfully suspended.

Meanwhile, when Keyonte Johnson collapsed during the Florida/FSU game it continued.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 12, 2021, 01:22:04 PM
Scary stuff, looks like he's in the hospital and in stable condition.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 12, 2021, 01:39:20 PM
Incredibly scary situation in Denmark right now.  Don't know why they kept the cameras on him as long as they did, cut to studio ffs.

Update: match has been suspended.  Only decision possible really.

It’s restarted, now at halftime
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 12, 2021, 01:51:20 PM
It’s restarted, now at halftime

Yep, apparently Eriksen facetimed the team and told them to play on.  Still gotta be a tough situation for the players though.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 12, 2021, 02:28:27 PM
Yep, apparently Eriksen facetimed the team and told them to play on.  Still gotta be a tough situation for the players though.

Super rough.  They definitely have looked out of it.  Can’t even imagine

Update: apparently UEFA gave the option of finishing or playing tomorrow at noon.  SHEESH. Eriksen message or not, that’s still putting a team under the gun
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 12, 2021, 10:19:52 PM
Super rough.  They definitely have looked out of it.  Can’t even imagine

Update: apparently UEFA gave the option of finishing or playing tomorrow at noon.  SHEESH. Eriksen message or not, that’s still putting a team under the gun

But really what is UEFA supposed to do? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 14, 2021, 03:29:34 PM
I swear it feels like anytime Spain plays a non-elite team, they either waterfalls 3-4 goals or waste every chance and somehow scuff a late 1 goal win. No in between
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 15, 2021, 12:30:46 PM
Back to back matches of lesser teams largely playing for a draw, ugh.  At least Sweden had some decent counter attacking.  This Hungary-Portugal match has been beyond gross.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on June 15, 2021, 12:53:37 PM
Back to back matches of lesser teams largely playing for a draw, ugh.  At least Sweden had some decent counter attacking.  This Hungary-Portugal match has been beyond gross.

I didn’t mind it, thought Hungary fought…until it fell apart entirely.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 15, 2021, 02:12:35 PM
I thought Hungary was way more aggressive than Sweden. I mean, Spain literally had over 85% of the possession. That’s ridiculous.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 15, 2021, 05:04:13 PM
I thought Hungary was way more aggressive than Sweden. I mean, Spain literally had over 85% of the possession. That’s ridiculous.

I dont disagree.  They were throwing men forward in the second half on counters, especially right after I posted that  ;D  But every time Portugal had possession in the Hungary half, there were 8-9 men around the 18 yard box.  It was just not at all entertaining, especially after that Spain/Sweden disaster.  The France/Germany match was 1-0, but infinitely more action and compelling viewing. 

Some people love uber defensive soccer and watching a team put up a wall that the opponent has to pick and prod at all match.  To me its horrid.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 16, 2021, 07:25:41 AM
How did Rudiger stay on the field yesterday.  His "bite" certainly wasn't as egregious as some of Suarez's, but it should still be a red, and there's no excuse for missing something like that with VAR, especially with all the hell Pogba was raising about it.

On a brighter note, this was really nice to see, especially Anthony Taylor at the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQiJtb0jVco
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 17, 2021, 02:21:46 PM
Daniel Levy should hire Depaul or St John's ADs to handle their manager search.  JFC.  🤪🤪🤪
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 17, 2021, 04:31:22 PM
Gattuso's managerial career:

FC Sion: Sacked in under 90 days.

Palermo: Lasts 6 games after only winning 2 before being sacked

OFI Crete: Lasts 6 months, improvement!  Leaves due to supposed financial difficulties but had a winning percentage under 30% and made no friends there.

Pisa: Smartly drops down multiple levels.  Actually gets them promoted to Serie B, leaves suddenly after the season for vague reasons.  Comes back...they finish last and he quits again.

Milan:  Despite showing nothing but crap as a manager, somehow gets to manage the most successful Italian club, presumably because he was a legendary player.  Finishes 5th and 6th, no CL qualification...gets sacked.

Napoli: SOMEHOW ANOTHER TOP CLUB IN ITALY GIVES HIM A JOB.  Napoli misses the CL for the first time in 5 years, and then miss it again.  SACKED

Fiorentina:  In his quest to manage every respected club in Italy, Gattuso somehow gets the Viola gig...and then quits 2 weeks later due to friction with ownership.

In spite of this absolute s***show of a managerial career, Spurs are intrigued.  I mean, Italy loves their own, so I guess I can see what happened there.  But my god, how is anyone in England attracted to him for an opening?  Did Daniel Levy love him for a hot minute at Rangers 20 years ago?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 17, 2021, 05:09:22 PM
Daniel Levy should hire Depaul or St John's ADs to handle their manager search.  JFC.  🤪🤪🤪

What a unnatural carnal knowledgeing mess.

Does this latest screwup fall on the new DoF though?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 17, 2021, 05:11:34 PM
Gattuso's managerial career:

FC Sion: Sacked in under 90 days.

Palermo: Lasts 6 games after only winning 2 before being sacked

OFI Crete: Lasts 6 months, improvement!  Leaves due to supposed financial difficulties but had a winning percentage under 30% and made no friends there.

Pisa: Smartly drops down multiple levels.  Actually gets them promoted to Serie B, leaves suddenly after the season for vague reasons.  Comes back...they finish last and he quits again.

Milan:  Despite showing nothing but crap as a manager, somehow gets to manage the most successful Italian club, presumably because he was a legendary player.  Finishes 5th and 6th, no CL qualification...gets sacked.

Napoli: SOMEHOW ANOTHER TOP CLUB IN ITALY GIVES HIM A JOB.  Napoli misses the CL for the first time in 5 years, and then miss it again.  SACKED

Fiorentina:  In his quest to manage every respected club in Italy, Gattuso somehow gets the Viola gig...and then quits 2 weeks later due to friction with ownership.

In spite of this absolute s***show of a managerial career, Spurs are intrigued.  I mean, Italy loves their own, so I guess I can see what happened there.  But my god, how is anyone in England attracted to him for an opening?  Did Daniel Levy love him for a hot minute at Rangers 20 years ago?

Spurs reddit claims this all has to do with Jorge Mendes? Which is some sort of agent for players and managers?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 17, 2021, 05:22:47 PM
Spurs reddit claims this all has to do with Jorge Mendes? Which is some sort of agent for players and managers?

Mendes a monster, one of the 2-3 most powerful agents in the soccer world.  Ronaldo, De Gea, James Rodriguez, Fabinho, then kind of a whos who of the Portugese soccer scene.  Funny enough, he's also Mourhino's manager.

That being said, it feels insanely short sighted even to placate Mendes.  Mendes' meddling and influence is what blew up the whole Fiorentina situation with Gattuso. Regardless, Gattuso could be coming to White Hart Lane with Bernardo Silva, Ronaldo, De Gea, and Fabinho along with him and it would still be a horrid hire.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 17, 2021, 06:40:02 PM
If they want to bring in another Mendes client, just hire Nuno Espirtio Santo.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 17, 2021, 09:06:08 PM
If they want to bring in another Mendes client, just hire Nuno Espirtio Santo.

Who would have been an excellent hire, funny enough
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 18, 2021, 07:47:17 AM
My guess is that Spurs aren't going to be splashing much cash around the next few years because they have to pay for that stadium, and that's why high level candidates are balking.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 18, 2021, 09:11:32 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/ussoccer/comments/o2uf8q/mexico_punished_for_fans_homophobic_chant_will/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 23, 2021, 05:39:19 PM
https://twitter.com/ReutersGraphics/status/1407809540133949446?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Man, the two sides of this bracket look very uneven.  Going to be some truly great matches in the top half, and if a Cinderella story happens, feel like it's got to come from the bottom half.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: lawdog77 on June 24, 2021, 03:04:16 PM
Karim Benzema scored two goals at the same time at 46:44.  1:44 into stoppage time, and 1:44 of the second half.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on June 28, 2021, 03:31:30 PM
I question France's tactics at times but boy do they score some pretty goals. That first goal from Benzema was something.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on June 28, 2021, 03:38:45 PM
I question France's tactics at times but boy do they score some pretty goals. That first goal from Benzema was something.

An incredible 5 minutes, incredible turn of events. And, Pogba, oh my. He frustrates me but damn that was world class.

Edit: Okay SUI, world class goal!

Edit edit: Absolute scenes!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on June 28, 2021, 03:55:27 PM
This is insanity.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 28, 2021, 05:37:01 PM
These knockout stage games have been such a huge step up from the group stage ones it's hard to believe it's the same competition.  A lot of "weaker" teams playing to the level of the "stronger" ones.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 28, 2021, 07:32:42 PM
These knockout stage games have been such a huge step up from the group stage ones it's hard to believe it's the same competition.  A lot of "weaker" teams playing to the level of the "stronger" ones.

The first halves have been like the group stages. Cagey, cautious, limited.  But second halves have been absolute chaos.

I think it’s interesting when you look at the “weaker” teams.  It’s not like the old Ukraine teams with Shevchenko, or B&H playing through Dzeko. Denmark, Switzerland, and even Austria have starting 11s pretty filled with guys who play not just in Germany or Italy, but for CL level clubs in those leagues.  They don’t have the France or Germany lineups filled with PSG/Bayern/Real/Barca guys but they have tons of talent who aren’t light on high level experience. So you have teams that given tight games or close moments and they are more than up for it.

The only true surprise for me was the Czechs, but that red had everything to do with it.   France going down was obviously crazy but the Swiss are far from minnows
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUBurrow on June 28, 2021, 09:51:13 PM
Do soccer people like VAR? Because holy hell does it ruin the best moments of games.  Watching the Swiss wait to start celebrating to make sure VAR wasn't going to reverse for the keeper coming off his line bummed me out.  And the VAR reversals for an inch or two on offside calls is lame too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 28, 2021, 10:06:11 PM
VAR in theory is a very good thing.  VAR in practice has very much been a mixed bag, mostly because different countries use it in different ways (surprisingly MLS is one of the leagues that executes it well).  VAR at the Euros has for the most part been well executed.  Some delayed celebrations is worth getting the call right IMO.  The amount of delay that has happened in various leagues since VAR's inception (over the most miniscule margins) has been way too excessive IMO and hurts more than it helps.  The fact that both offsides and handball rules have been tweaked multiple times over the last 2 years or so suggests that it may have gone too far and needs to be dialed back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUBurrow on June 28, 2021, 10:33:07 PM
VAR in theory is a very good thing.  VAR in practice has very much been a mixed bag, mostly because different countries use it in different ways (surprisingly MLS is one of the leagues that executes it well).  VAR at the Euros has for the most part been well executed.  Some delayed celebrations is worth getting the call right IMO.  The amount of delay that has happened in various leagues since VAR's inception (over the most miniscule margins) has been way too excessive IMO and hurts more than it helps.  The fact that both offsides and handball rules have been tweaked multiple times over the last 2 years or so suggests that it may have gone too far and needs to be dialed back.

That's all fair.  And for egregious calls, I agree its worth getting it right.  But for things like coming off the line early on a penalty or an inch or two on an offside call, that stinks.  I'm not sure how you fix that, especially on offside.  Those calls remind me a lot of out vs safe on a steal attempt in baseball.  Once you're looking at it on video, you have to make the correct call, but it flips from the spirit of the rule in real time to the letter on review.  For baseball steal attempts, if the throw beats the runner and the tag is close enough to make the ump think it was applied, I want to see that guy called out regardless of what is on the replay.  Similarly for offside, if momentum in real time makes the ref think one thing but it turns out a defender's arm position kept a guy on (can't remember which Euro game had a call reversed for that) then I'd rather have kept the original call. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 29, 2021, 12:05:29 AM
That's all fair.  And for egregious calls, I agree its worth getting it right.  But for things like coming off the line early on a penalty or an inch or two on an offside call, that stinks.  I'm not sure how you fix that, especially on offside.  Those calls remind me a lot of out vs safe on a steal attempt in baseball.  Once you're looking at it on video, you have to make the correct call, but it flips from the spirit of the rule in real time to the letter on review.  For baseball steal attempts, if the throw beats the runner and the tag is close enough to make the ump think it was applied, I want to see that guy called out regardless of what is on the replay.  Similarly for offside, if momentum in real time makes the ref think one thing but it turns out a defender's arm position kept a guy on (can't remember which Euro game had a call reversed for that) then I'd rather have kept the original call.

Agreed. I think it’s helpful for reviewing contact and other penalties.  And making offside checks.  But I HATE HATE HATE bringing out the colored line and watching for minuscule separations for offsides. A striker having his hand past a defender’s back foot by 6 inches while his entire body is otherwise onside has no real advantage but gets called back 95% of the time with VAR.  I also think they can be far too liberal with fouls in the lead up to goals as well.  I hate most of those reviews.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 29, 2021, 03:49:38 PM
Agreed. I think it’s helpful for reviewing contact and other penalties.  And making offside checks.  But I HATE HATE HATE bringing out the colored line and watching for minuscule separations for offsides. A striker having his hand past a defender’s back foot by 6 inches while his entire body is otherwise onside has no real advantage but gets called back 95% of the time with VAR.  I also think they can be far too liberal with fouls in the lead up to goals as well.  I hate most of those reviews.

I totally agree on the reversed calls when a player is a millimeter offsides, but I'm not sure what can be done about that. If you're going to review the play, and the review shows the play offsides - even just a fraction - you have to overturn it. Otherwise, you're saying "he was offsides, but not by much, so we'll allow a rules violation," which seems an even worse outcome to me.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 29, 2021, 04:19:19 PM
I totally agree on the reversed calls when a player is a millimeter offsides, but I'm not sure what can be done about that. If you're going to review the play, and the review shows the play offsides - even just a fraction - you have to overturn it. Otherwise, you're saying "he was offsides, but not by much, so we'll allow a rules violation," which seems an even worse outcome to me.

I don't have a good answer.  Maybe just make it replay instead of virtual graph paper?  Trying to find a way to keep the spirit of the rule without taking too much out of the game.  I mean, its the same with handballs IMO.  Great for reviewing arm/hand placement or position in and out of the box.  Terrible for microscopic determination of arm or chest or if it was a glancing contact.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 29, 2021, 05:07:44 PM
Couple options. 1, Give the refs a time limit.  Everyone wants the correct call, but if it takes more than 90 seconds looking at the screen, it's too close to the point that you should just go with whatever was called on the field. 2, Get rid of the "freeze frame and drawing line" thing.  I get it, by doing that, you can be 100% accurate, however, if you're doing that based on cameras that can't determine the exact nanosecond that the ball left the passers foot, you can't say that you're being 100% accurate.  Give the ref the ability to look at it in slow-mo, but again, if you can't determine on/off from 2 looks at slow-mo, it's too close to call, and you should go with the ruling on the field.  3, Expand the rule.  I know offsides is by definition a black or white determination, but prior to VAR, you would hear literally everyone say "if he's level, then he's on".  There is no being exactly level, so they were in a sense saying that if it's too close to call, give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker.  I see no reason why we can't continue to give the attacker this benefit. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 29, 2021, 06:38:28 PM
Euro knockout stage is drunk
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 30, 2021, 10:58:02 AM
If they want to bring in another Mendes client, just hire Nuno Espirtio Santo.

Good call, Zig.

Looks like Mendes is our new chairman.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 30, 2021, 02:23:49 PM
Good call, Zig.

Looks like Mendes is our new chairman.

Official, Nuno in at THFC.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 30, 2021, 02:40:45 PM
Jadon Sancho to Man U apparently a done deal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 30, 2021, 02:42:50 PM
Official, Nuno in at THFC.

I don't hate this, but maybe because I'm just glad the circus is over (maybe?).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 30, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Jadon Sancho to Man U apparently a done deal.

Weird timing, you'd think that they'd have waited until after the Euros to announce.  I guess he wasn't playing much anyways.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 30, 2021, 03:12:24 PM
Jadon Sancho to Man U apparently a done deal.

I'll believe it when I see him in a Man U kit.  Feel like its been a "certainty" since 2019.

I don't hate this, but maybe because I'm just glad the circus is over (maybe?).

He's a good manager.  Given they were supposedly that close to Gattuso, I think its a massive win
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 02, 2021, 01:14:34 PM
Full marks to the Swiss and Sommer has been marvelous, but my god the Spanish have to be the most disappointing power player of the tourney.  Other than destroying Slovakia, they were terrible against Sweden.  Scuffling against Poland.  And then they nearly choked late against Croatia.

They've been a heavy favorite all game, and cant find a second goal, even with the last 30 min up a man.  Just brutal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: lawdog77 on July 02, 2021, 01:32:40 PM
The fighting Federers make it to PK. That being said, I want Spain to win. Their food is much better.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MuggsyB on July 02, 2021, 02:26:39 PM
The fighting Federers make it to PK. That being said, I want Spain to win. Their food is much better.

Paella > Fondue
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: lawdog77 on July 02, 2021, 02:43:32 PM
Paella > Fondue
Yes. Also
Iberico de Belotta  Ham>Swiss Steak. Dont know any other Swiss meats
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 02, 2021, 02:51:38 PM
For those that want to see a clinic on how VAR should be utilized, turn on this Belgium v Italy match. Italian goal correctly ruled off after a quick review. Belgium pen confirmed after a quick review. Textbook example of how to correctly use VAR. Well done.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: lawdog77 on July 02, 2021, 02:53:10 PM
I enjoy watching Italy  play. Its the futbol version of 40 minutes of hell
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MuggsyB on July 02, 2021, 04:40:36 PM
Yes. Also
Iberico de Belotta  Ham>Swiss Steak. Dont know any other Swiss meats

Ah....yes.  There's also sopa de ajo lawdog.  The Spanish Garlic Soup.  It's absolutely tremendous and quite easy and inexpensive to make.  The key however is NOT to cook the bread in the soup.  Grab a cookie sheet, and cut up a baguette into cube sized pieces with a little olive oil and smoked paprika.  Crisp up those bad boys and then drop then into the soup.  As for Swiss food?   Rotsi is impossible not to like.  How can you go wrong with hash browns with Gruyere cheese inside? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: lawdog77 on July 02, 2021, 05:51:54 PM
There are so many good Spanish foods. I loved walking through Barrio Santa Cruz in Seville, stopping at the endless amounts of bars gettting their tapas. Not to mention the eclectic dining in Barcelona, classical cuisine in Madrid, Ferran Adria.

The second match had me conflicted.  I love moules et frites, but Italy has the wider variety.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MuggsyB on July 02, 2021, 06:06:54 PM
There are so many good Spanish foods. I loved walking through Barrio Santa Cruz in Seville, stopping at the endless amounts of bars gettting their tapas. Not to mention the eclectic dining in Barcelona, classical cuisine in Madrid, Ferran Adria.

The second match had me conflicted.  I love moules et frites, but Italy has the wider variety.

Ha!!  Hard to compete with Italy foodwise...it's most often a mismatch.  Of course there is Belgian beer and waffles along with the moules et fries. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 02, 2021, 06:32:38 PM
Of course there is Belgian beer and waffles along with the moules et fries.

Belgian beer aside, Belgian food sucks.  It’s heavy and dense and seems to mirror the weather.  Frites are tasty but lord knows I don’t want them with every meal.   The best food I’ve had in my many trips there is at the myriad global restaurants in Antwerp and Brussels due to the large immigrant population
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 02, 2021, 07:03:50 PM
Honestly, Roberto Martinez should have resigned as soon as the final whistle blew.  Nothing against the Italians, they have a strong squad, but he was completely outclassed by Mancini. His inability to get DeBruyne on the ball, create chances for Lukaku, or realize that Doku was getting whatever he wanted down the left was baffling.  Just straight up got outmanaged, no other way to put it.  Blew the best chance for their "golden generation" to get any silverware.  Yes the WC is only 18 months off, and DeBruyne, Lukaku, Carrasco and Tielemans will still be producing, but how many more knocks does Hazard have?  Their backline is also 35, 34, and 32 respectively, throw in Witsel at 32, Mertens at 34, and not a ton coming through the youth ranks.  Borderline criminal that he couldn't get more out of them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: lawdog77 on July 03, 2021, 10:43:16 AM
Okay, today's first match is a tossup:
Stegt flæsk med persillesovs vs Vepřo Knedlo Zelo

Honestly, I don't know much about either cuisine.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MuggsyB on July 03, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Okay, today's first match is a tossup:
Stegt flæsk med persillesovs vs Vepřo Knedlo Zelo

Honestly, I don't know much about either cuisine.

You're not missing much.  Although there are several very good restaurants in Copenhagen.  :)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 11, 2021, 05:40:49 PM
Think you can very much call into question Southgate's substitutions here.  I get that Rashford and Sancho are good, young attacking players, but if you're bringing someone on that late, it's just to take a pen.  I'd much rather have the more experienced players out there, and both the young guys missed, and both with pretty poor pens.  Also giving the last kick to Saka over Grealish, Sterling, even Shaw? Not sure I see the reasoning behind that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jutaw22mu on July 11, 2021, 06:31:53 PM
Should have put the mouth breathing mumbler in the 5 spot and Saka in the middle somewhere.  Hard enough to be 19 and taking a PK, even harder when it is for all the marbles. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 11, 2021, 07:38:35 PM
Think you can very much call into question Southgate's substitutions here.  I get that Rashford and Sancho are good, young attacking players, but if you're bringing someone on that late, it's just to take a pen.  I'd much rather have the more experienced players out there, and both the young guys missed, and both with pretty poor pens.  Also giving the last kick to Saka over Grealish, Sterling, even Shaw? Not sure I see the reasoning behind that.

He brought them on in place of Kyle Walker and Henderson, who almost have more caps than Sancho and Rashford combined.  Both have played in massive moments and won big silverware.  Both would have been much better options.  The time to bring on Rashford was 30 min before if he was going to
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 11, 2021, 10:43:24 PM
Southgate is trying to protect his guys. There are absolutely people who did not want to take a penalty.

Shaka I don’t get, but Rashford did hit a big one against Colombia in 2018. Woulda been half tempted to throw Pickford in there at 5 after his huge save. One of the best penalty saves I’ve ever seen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on July 12, 2021, 07:07:45 AM
Nice to know that the U.S. doesn't have a monopoly on racist d-bags.

https://apnews.com/article/europe-sports-soccer-international-soccer-world-cup-d5f2aa978ad8bd8d74994bcd2528edfa?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=New%20Campaign&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers

LONDON (AP) — Three Black players who missed penalty kicks for England in the decisive European Championship shootout against Italy on Sunday night were subjected to racist abuse online, prompting the English Football Association to issue a statement condemning the language used against the players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: lawdog77 on July 12, 2021, 08:02:49 AM
Nice to know that the U.S. doesn't have a monopoly on racist d-bags.
So, you're happy there is racism in other parts of the world?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 12, 2021, 01:33:51 PM
Southgate is trying to protect his guys. There are absolutely people who did not want to take a penalty.

Shaka I don’t get, but Rashford did hit a big one against Colombia in 2018. Woulda been half tempted to throw Pickford in there at 5 after his huge save. One of the best penalty saves I’ve ever seen.

Really?  I think the timing of it was pretty epic obviously, but it was kind of a crap take from a normally brilliant penalty taker in Jorginho.  He didn't do his normal hop, sort of hesitated, and then sort of scuffed one.  Even if Pickford broke late he could have saved it with ease.  I feel like in terms of pure save quality, Donarumma had one equally as good as stopped a slow low roller.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 12, 2021, 01:41:37 PM
Honestly, all the pens that weren't converted were pretty poor, Sancho's being the worst. Other than Jorginho scuffing his shot, and Rashford not even getting it on frame, they were all at poor heights, not nearly close enough to a corner, and with not nearly enough pace.  At this level there's really no excuse for not being able to do exactly what Kane or Maguire did; right in a corner, with pace, no chance of stopping it even if you guess right.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 12, 2021, 04:45:09 PM
Honestly, all the pens that weren't converted were pretty poor, Sancho's being the worst. Other than Jorginho scuffing his shot, and Rashford not even getting it on frame, they were all at poor heights, not nearly close enough to a corner, and with not nearly enough pace.  At this level there's really no excuse for not being able to do exactly what Kane or Maguire did; right in a corner, with pace, no chance of stopping it even if you guess right.

Totally agree.  You have Sancho who scores at a high rate in Germany, Rashford who has 55 goals in the Prem, Jorginho who, while not  a goal scorer is a stud known for amazing ball placement…and they all can’t muster a good strike but Maguire, who literally scores about once a year on a header, laces a perfect belter
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 12, 2021, 07:21:39 PM
Totally agree.  You have Sancho who scores at a high rate in Germany, Rashford who has 55 goals in the Prem, Jorginho who, while not  a goal scorer is a stud known for amazing ball placement…and they all can’t muster a good strike but Maguire, who literally scores about once a year on a header, laces a perfect belter

It's more mental than anything really.  I thought this was pretty funny last season, you have the most expensive squad in the history of club soccer, and you can't convert a PK to the point that the keeper is trying to take them.

https://talksport.com/football/834067/ederson-penalty-man-city-tottenham/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUBurrow on July 29, 2021, 10:44:07 PM
Well I think this second penalty awarded to Mexico might be my new record holder for least favorite use of VAR ever.

Edit: ball don't lie.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 29, 2021, 11:00:19 PM
Yea, I know I'm biased, but this is one of the more one sided officiated games I've seen in a while. Though TBF if all teams play the way they did tonight, US loses in the finals regardless. Need a much better performance.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 29, 2021, 11:29:36 PM
Again, I know I'm biased, but I thought Canada was the better team. Let's see what happens Sunday. On paper, should be a Mexico walk in the park.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 30, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
Turner have any real chance of supplanting Steffan for the WCQs?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 30, 2021, 11:50:40 AM
Turner have any real chance of supplanting Steffan for the WCQs?

He should. Has been notably better. Seems like playing in MLS does more for your form than sitting front row at City games.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 30, 2021, 01:03:37 PM
Turner have any real chance of supplanting Steffan for the WCQs?

Don't forget about Horvath.

Suddenly, US has a ton of depth at keeper.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 30, 2021, 01:32:15 PM
I've mentioned it a bunch about how penalties at the top level should be converted 100% of the time.  US put on a clinic, Dutch had some very poor pens.  I think there is an argument to be made that the Dutch were the better team overall today, but if half your penalties are that poor, you can have no complaints.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 30, 2021, 01:54:23 PM
Don't forget about Horvath.

Suddenly, US has a ton of depth at keeper.

I mean the US always has.  Thats been their international top level strength for 25 years.

After Meola (who probably would have been a Euro level keeper if he was a decade later) you had Keller and Friedel who played in England for close to 2 decades each.  Plus the 3rd string was Sommer who was sneaky solid and actually played in the PL before them.

Then Tim Howard arrived, say no more.  But that also brought Marcus Hahnemann into even more depth, again played a long time in the UK.  Then Guzan as well.

Then over the last 5-6 years you add Horvath, Steffan.  Replace your reliable 3rd string MLS keeper in Rimando with Sean Johnson.  Now Turner is emerging.  And you got David Ochoa and Chituru Odunze waiting in the wings.

If the US's whole national development was like their keepers, they'd have been a WC contender years ago.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 30, 2021, 10:50:24 PM
The US keeper depth has been poor since Howard retired. Guzan was a fine backup, but he was never close to what Friedel, Keller, or Howard were in their primes, and no one the past few years have been close to that.

Horvath lost his job at Brugge & is headed to the Championship. Steffen has more appearances for the US than his European clubs since moving overseas. But no one else has reached their potential enough to supplant either of them.

The position used to be a strength but it's been years since we had one elite keeper, much less many. I hope it gets back there, but right now all of our best players are field players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 01, 2021, 10:00:52 PM
Very impressed with the B team tonight
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 01, 2021, 10:36:37 PM
Very impressed with the B team tonight

Bump
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 02, 2021, 12:34:35 AM
Amazed. Berhalter has pulled all the right strings of late. Thoughts...

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: injuryBug on August 02, 2021, 09:34:56 AM
Defense seemed to be working very well together.  anytime someone was open it was only for split second and the rotations were done very well to help eachother out.

Nice to have basically 2 different teams win tournaments this summer
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on August 02, 2021, 09:42:43 AM
Last night was a good night for MLS soccer development people.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 02, 2021, 10:00:07 AM
Amazed. Berhalter has pulled all the right strings of late. Thoughts...

  • Berhalter has pulled all the right strings of late. I've been critical generally, but he's done well to shut out high powered offenses like Qatar and Mexico, made all the right subs (he really gets the 5 sub/3 window format), and really put together deep squads.
  • This was fun. It's been awhile since the USMNT was fun to watch. Bring on the Qualifiers.

Same feeling here.  Ive been critical of Greggggg and hated the hire.  But he's REALLY been strong the last year or so.  Put together good lineups, has a good feel for chemistry, this is really fun stuff.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 04, 2021, 05:03:17 PM
The inflated transfer fees of English players in the PL is always hilarious, especially defenders.  Ben White isn't super young, only has 2 caps at age 23 (24 by the start of next season) and hes worth $70MM.  Absurd.

But that doesn't make $140MM for Grealish any less shocking.  Just insanity
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 04, 2021, 05:14:22 PM
The inflated transfer fees of English players in the PL is always hilarious, especially defenders.  Ben White isn't super young, only has 2 caps at age 23 (24 by the start of next season) and hes worth $70MM.  Absurd.

But that doesn't make $140MM for Grealish any less shocking.  Just insanity

If Grealish is 140, Harry Kane is...200?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 04, 2021, 06:43:19 PM
Eh, it's an absurd amount of money, but given the players age and quality, I get it.  Plus if Kane doesn't happen this summer, and all they have come in is Grealish, their likely net spend won't be bad at all.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 05, 2021, 12:59:16 PM
https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/football/first-team/news/2207655/leo-messi-not-staying-at-fc-barcelona

Wow, PSG or City are about to get one of the best free transfers ever.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 05, 2021, 07:32:07 PM
While the roster construction sucked (almost all the attackers were 32+) it would be pretty cool for Rapinoe and Lloyd to walk into the sunset with braces to secure an Olympic medal. No, it wasn't gold, but it was still a great potential walk-off. Pinoe's goals were two of the best you'll ever see. Brilliant score on a direct corner and a magnificent first-touch volley.  I really hope they call their careers, Pinoe will be 38 and Lloyd 41 when the next World Cup comes around.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 05, 2021, 08:47:37 PM
While the roster construction sucked (almost all the attackers were 32+) it would be pretty cool for Rapinoe and Lloyd to walk into the sunset with braces to secure an Olympic medal. No, it wasn't gold, but it was still a great potential walk-off. Pinoe's goals were two of the best you'll ever see. Brilliant score on a direct corner and a magnificent first-touch volley.  I really hope they call their careers, Pinoe will be 38 and Lloyd 41 when the next World Cup comes around.

Rapinoe had a nice Olympics, which was surprising cause she was horrid during the WC, despite what a bunch of goals off of penalties would say.

Lloyd will call it.  But I would be shocked if Rapinoe doesn't try to play.  Whether they keep her in the squad is another story
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 05, 2021, 09:37:47 PM
Saw the stat somewhere (can't remember where) that since Jan 2020, the only country in the America's that had sent more players to Europe than the US was Brazil.  Literally today, Sam Vines moves to Belgium, Gianluca Busio moves to Italy, and there's talk of Sargent heading to Norwich.  Busio is only 19, but has a very high ceiling IMO.  Keeping track of all the new players heading overseas is a very good problem to have.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 22, 2021, 12:56:47 PM
Below average midfield.
Best striker not playing.

But 2 very good results.

I'm impressed with the squad and Nuno so far.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 22, 2021, 03:11:13 PM
Below average midfield.
Best striker not playing.

But 2 very good results.

I'm impressed with the squad and Nuno so far.

Last year's squad would have given away points in the final 10 minutes, under today's circumstances.
Funnest transfer rumor of the day ... a swap deal involving Tanguay Ndombele for Weston McKennie.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 25, 2021, 07:56:31 AM
https://twitter.com/SpursOfficial/status/1430496647793029120?s=19

Coys
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 25, 2021, 07:58:43 AM
https://twitter.com/SpursOfficial/status/1430496647793029120?s=19

Coys


Should have sold him because I don't think they make top 4 right now.  We will see... 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 25, 2021, 08:26:54 AM
Deal was unlikely to happen from the get go.  Levy was never going to budge, and City were never going to pay the full 150.  If Kane really wanted out he shouldn't have signed that contract and given all the power to the club.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 25, 2021, 08:41:18 AM
Word is they offered $125M plus a player.  I think you can do more with that $$ than you are going to get with Kane.

We will see.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2021, 08:47:57 AM
Word is they offered $125M plus a player.  I think you can do more with that $$ than you are going to get with Kane.

We will see.

They allegedly offered Jesus, who didn't want to go to THFC.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 25, 2021, 08:55:36 AM
Deal was unlikely to happen from the get go.  Levy was never going to budge, and City were never going to pay the full 150.  If Kane really wanted out he shouldn't have signed that contract and given all the power to the club.

Yeah, and if City really wanted him - and it doesn't seem they were overly eager - they'd have tried harder to make a deal before paying $100 million for Grealish. That gave Levy all the leverage he needed to dig in on a $150+ million asking price which City apparently wasn't willing to meet.
Oh, and never hire your brother as your agent.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 25, 2021, 08:59:24 AM

Should have sold him because I don't think they make top 4 right now.  We will see...

Maybe, but that's a bad reason to accept less - perhaps far less - than fair value. I don't think Spurs were completely unwilling to sell, but they weren't going to settle for less than Kane is worth, especially from another PL club.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 25, 2021, 09:23:31 AM
Is Adama actually gonna end up at THFC?

Him+Son+Kane = counterattacking dream

Or Weston. But that seems unlikely.

Also: https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/players/harry-kane-manchester-city-january-21399630.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Sounds like Harry staying longer than the summer
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 25, 2021, 09:36:05 AM
Is Adama actually gonna end up at THFC?

Him+Son+Kane = counterattacking dream

It would be nice, but where's the money coming from? Wolves apparently won't consider a loan to buy deal like the one for Romero, and without a Kane sale, Spurs don't seem flush with cash. And, as well as Bergwijn is playing, seems like Spurs have more pressing needs (another CB, an attacking/passing midfielder).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2021, 10:17:13 AM
I'd much rather see Weston than Adama.  Ship out Winks and Sissoko.

Bergwjin is Adama without the risk of a positive PED test.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 25, 2021, 11:04:36 AM
Bergwjin is Adama without the risk of a positive PED test.

He also can finish which Adama seems to forget how to do quite often.

Unrelated, I was looking at PSG’s roster and it’s hilarious. Until Mbappe leaves, it looks like an Ultimate XI team on FIFA.  I know Ramos is old, but adding him, Messi, and Donarumma (a 22 year old elite keeper on a damn free transfer) is just an absurd amount of additional name recognition and star power
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 25, 2021, 11:54:46 AM
Yeah, and if City really wanted him - and it doesn't seem they were overly eager - they'd have tried harder to make a deal before paying $100 million for Grealish. That gave Levy all the leverage he needed to dig in on a $150+ million asking price which City apparently wasn't willing to meet.
Oh, and never hire your brother as your agent.

I don't think the Grealish deal had anything to do with it.  Price tag was always 150. City were always going to try to negotiate a cash plus player deal.  Levy always said that it was going to have to be straight up cash.  Everyone kind of had their lines in the sand that they wouldn't cross, and nobody crossed them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 27, 2021, 07:44:23 AM
This thread on Sherrif Tiraspol, the only Moldovan team to ever make the Champions League group stage, is something.

https://twitter.com/SlavaMalamud/status/1430939451069509639
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 27, 2021, 06:18:25 PM
This thread on Sherrif Tiraspol, the only Moldovan team to ever make the Champions League group stage, is something.

https://twitter.com/SlavaMalamud/status/1430939451069509639

That was fascinating. I’ve always thought their name was weird but makes sense now.

Reminds of of Anzahi Makhachkala. No history or success, then a Russian billionaire takes them over in a weird agreement with the ruler of Dagestan.  They buy a bunch of players including Willian, Eto, and Roberto Carlos and have some success, even though they can’t live or train near the stadium due to security concerns and fly in for home games from Moscow.  Then some shady financial stuff happens with the owner outside of soccer, they sell everyone and get destroyed in the Russian Premier League and now they are back in lower levels
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 27, 2021, 06:58:47 PM
That was fascinating. I’ve always thought their name was weird but makes sense now.

Reminds of of Anzahi Makhachkala. No history or success, then a Russian billionaire takes them over in a weird agreement with the ruler of Dagestan.  They buy a bunch of players including Willian, Eto, and Roberto Carlos and have some success, even though they can’t live or train near the stadium due to security concerns and fly in for home games from Moscow.  Then some shady financial stuff happens with the owner outside of soccer, they sell everyone and get destroyed in the Russian Premier League and now they are back in lower levels

That seems more europa conference like than champions league.  Awesome that RM has to travel there!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 28, 2021, 08:46:29 AM
"So who do Arsenal take with the number 1 pick in the upcoming draft" - Kroenke (probably).

They're awful, get Big Sam on speed dial.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 28, 2021, 09:12:59 AM
"So who do Arsenal take with the number 1 pick in the upcoming draft" - Kroenke (probably).

They're awful, get Big Sam on speed dial.

Their Nothing or Nothing doc on Prime will be amazing.  Amazon's Sunderland Til I Die.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 29, 2021, 09:55:20 AM
Top of the table! Spurs!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 29, 2021, 11:47:30 AM
Top of the table! Spurs!

Spurs at the top, Arsenal at the bottom.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 29, 2021, 12:00:30 PM
Are Wolves the worst finishing team in the history of soccer?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 29, 2021, 02:59:11 PM
Are Wolves the worst finishing team in the history of soccer?

The Traore effect. If he finished half the chances he scuffs or fires off into oblivion, he’d be the winger Lukaku.

But they are such a fun and likable team that just can’t score.  It just feels endemic.  Jota scored 16 in nearly 70 matches with Wolves.  He’s scored 11 in 22 for Liverpool. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 29, 2021, 05:09:47 PM
Spurs at the top, Arsenal at the bottom.

All is right with the world.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 02, 2021, 10:56:27 PM
1>0?

Gross.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 02, 2021, 10:58:07 PM
Sloppy, sloppy all around. Point on the road in CONCACAF shouldn't be scoffed at, but this feels more like a collection of individuals rather than a team. Shame as this should have been 3 in the bag.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on September 02, 2021, 11:02:49 PM
That was awful. Credit to El Salvador. They were organized and defended well.

But goodness... All this talent I hear about and they were out of ideas with a half hour to go.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on September 03, 2021, 07:56:00 AM
Sloppy, sloppy all around. Point on the road in CONCACAF shouldn't be scoffed at, but this feels more like a collection of individuals rather than a team. Shame as this should have been 3 in the bag.

The fan in me says we should have secured three points. I agree, a road point is a point. Gotta win at home. Didn’t realize the US is now a top ten ranked team, hope that the players gel and get results that justify this huge jump.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 03, 2021, 10:05:15 AM
That was awful. Credit to El Salvador. They were organized and defended well.

But goodness... All this talent I hear about and they were out of ideas with a half hour to go.

For me, I didn't see it as an issue of being out of ideas. I saw it as the execution of a bad idea.

Berhalter's mantra of "be free and express yourself" seems to allow guys like McKennie, Dest,  et al. to think they are ballroom dancers when in reality they have two left feet. Far too often the US eschewed a pass, move, pass attempted breakdown of ES in favor of the 1v1 video game breakdown.

Robinson had a clear header at five minutes. Pefok had a good chance. McKennie had a clear header at 84 minutes. Cliche but true that clinical finishing is what separates legitimately good squads from those that are perpetually full of potential.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2021, 10:51:33 AM
For me, I didn't see it as an issue of being out of ideas. I saw it as the execution of a bad idea.

Berhalter's mantra of "be free and express yourself" seems to allow guys like McKennie, Dest,  et al. to think they are ballroom dancers when in reality they have two left feet. Far too often the US eschewed a pass, move, pass attempted breakdown of ES in favor of the 1v1 video game breakdown.

Robinson had a clear header at five minutes. Pefok had a good chance. McKennie had a clear header at 84 minutes. Cliche but true that clinical finishing is what separates legitimately good squads from those that are perpetually full of potential.

Yup.

I have no problem if Berhalter wants to isolate an obvious 1v1 advantage as part of the game plan. It can work in nearly every other sport as well as in soccer. Problem is, not everyone on the usmnt has that talent. Pulisic, Reyna...maybe that's it?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 03, 2021, 03:53:42 PM
Not a great result, but enough to get us qualified if we win at home. What killed us last time wasn't road form (0W/3D/2L) it was losing twice at home (3W/0D/2L). If we come out of this batch with 5 points, we're in fine shape.

Any more than 20 points should be enough to get qualified. 1.5 points per match has never failed to qualify a team. We likely won't punch our ticket until January or February at the earliest. Just keep grinding these out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 03, 2021, 04:19:11 PM
A draw on the road in Central America with a young team playing its first of 14 qualifiers is just fine.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2021, 04:37:18 PM
A draw on the road in Central America with a young team playing its first of 14 qualifiers is just fine.

Result is "acceptable." Product on the field was not. Not if you truly believe USA is top 10 in the world.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 03, 2021, 04:58:19 PM
Result is "acceptable." Product on the field was not. Not if you truly believe USA is top 10 in the world.

They are playing on a ramshackle pitch worth a hostile crowd and missing their best player. It was a young side gutting out the result they needed while never really looking overly threatened.

The last time El Salvador was in the final round, they went 2-2-1 at home, including a win over Mexico and draw with the USA. Their only loss was Honduras by a 1-0 score. Only the result matters, and there was nothing wrong with it.

I'd love to see the top European sides try playing there. I'm guessing most would be just as hopeless, in between the broken pitch and bags of piss.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 03, 2021, 05:20:20 PM
They are playing on a ramshackle pitch worth a hostile crowd and missing their best player. It was a young side gutting out the result they needed while never really looking overly threatened.

The last time El Salvador was in the final round, they went 2-2-1 at home, including a win over Mexico and draw with the USA. Their only loss was Honduras by a 1-0 score. Only the result matters, and there was nothing wrong with it.

I'd love to see the top European sides try playing there. I'm guessing most would be just as hopeless, in between the broken pitch and bags of piss.

People always assume every top Euro squad bludgeons the inferior teams they play.  Spain is as likely to win 1-0 or sleepwalk to 0-0 against lesser squads as they are win going away.  Plenty of top Euro teams struggle in snakepits on the road against some of the smaller Balkan nations or Eastern European.  And even then those are usually legit stadiums and pitches.  The US graduates from playing on cow pastures and converted cricket pitches against some of the island nations to the messes that are playing anywhere between Azteca and Panama City (and even that field is ehh).  Its a miracle they make it out with ankles intact, either from the pitch or the chippy tackles
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2021, 05:27:12 PM
They are playing on a ramshackle pitch worth a hostile crowd and missing their best player. It was a young side gutting out the result they needed while never really looking overly threatened.

The last time El Salvador was in the final round, they went 2-2-1 at home, including a win over Mexico and draw with the USA. Their only loss was Honduras by a 1-0 score. Only the result matters, and there was nothing wrong with it.

I'd love to see the top European sides try playing there. I'm guessing most would be just as hopeless, in between the broken pitch and bags of piss.

If you (or anyone) truly believes there is a GIANT talent gap between a team like El Salvador and the current USMNT squad, then they should be able to put 1 in the back of the net. The current FIFA rankings seem to indicate there is a GIANT talent gap between the 2 teams.

Now, if we don't actually believe in the hype/rankings, then sure all the above excuses would seem to be acceptable.

If we aren't as talented as presented, we need to come to grips with that as a country and understand what our limitations are going forward.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2021, 05:27:56 PM
People always assume every top Euro squad bludgeons the inferior teams they play.  Spain is as likely to win 1-0 or sleepwalk to 0-0 against lesser squads as they are win going away.  Plenty of top Euro teams struggle in snakepits on the road against some of the smaller Balkan nations or Eastern European.  And even then those are usually legit stadiums and pitches.  The US graduates from playing on cow pastures and converted cricket pitches against some of the island nations to the messes that are playing anywhere between Azteca and Panama City (and even that field is ehh).  Its a miracle they make it out with ankles intact, either from the pitch or the chippy tackles

Correct.

But there is an interesting dichotomy between what top Euro nation fans accept as results vs USA fans when we supposedly have a top 10 team globally.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 03, 2021, 05:39:36 PM
Correct.

But there is an interesting dichotomy between what top Euro nation fans accept as results vs USA fans when we supposedly have a top 10 team globally.

Ehh, it’s an early qualifying result. Regardless of the continent.  This isn’t T&T over again.  The US just came off one of the best stretches of results in recent memory. Without their de facto leader and talisman against a scrappy team who is gonna come out defensive almost always, it is what it is.  It’s not preferred but it’s certainly not worthy of fretting or calling them overrated
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2021, 05:48:48 PM
Ehh, it’s an early qualifying result. Regardless of the continent.  This isn’t T&T over again.  The US just came off one of the best stretches of results in recent memory. Without their de facto leader and talisman against a scrappy team who is gonna come out defensive almost always, it is what it is.  It’s not preferred but it’s certainly not worthy of fretting or calling them overrated

I thought El Salvador played well. And I wouldn't say they were bunkered either.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 03, 2021, 06:09:55 PM
The 2010 USA Qualifying was similarly ranked and even more experience. They tied in El Salvador. Mexico lost there. That's just CONCACAF.

And I really don't care at all about FIFA rankings. They're useless when it comes to confederation qualifying. I'd love to get to the top-7 for a seed in the draw, but otherwise, does anyone actually care?

All that matters is that we actually qualify this time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2021, 07:19:14 PM
The 2010 USA Qualifying was similarly ranked and even more experience. They tied in El Salvador. Mexico lost there. That's just CONCACAF.

And I really don't care at all about FIFA rankings. They're useless when it comes to confederation qualifying. I'd love to get to the top-7 for a seed in the draw, but otherwise, does anyone actually care?

All that matters is that we actually qualify this time.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/match/_/gameId/262889

More experienced? Absolutely.

But do you really want to say the roster from that game is the same talent level as last night's?

I think, at some point, if we really buy-in to the supposed talent level of this roster, we have to expect more from them.

I personally hold zero weight in fifa rankings. I just want them to qualify, like you.

But, again, if we're (collectively) tout how talented this team is as individuals, then we need to hold them to a higher expectation than rosters in the past.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 03, 2021, 07:21:18 PM
Result is "acceptable." Product on the field was not. Not if you truly believe USA is top 10 in the world.


I don't. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2021, 07:23:41 PM

I don't.

Thanks. Agreed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 03, 2021, 08:26:09 PM
In defense of the team, I'll build off something that Gregg brought up.  Once it was known that Steffen was out, Gregg said that he went with Turner over Horvath because MLS was already in mid-season form while the European players were just starting to get their feet wet.  9 out of the remaining 10 players were European based rather than MLS.  As much as we all want to see more and more European based players, their season is only about 3 weeks old. If the same 22 players were to meet up in November, even with a poor field (an overused excuse IMO), and CONCACAF reffing I think we would see a different result.  Sunday will be a big game, and a win down in Honduras certainly isn't outside the realm of possibility either.  Getting 9 points this window was never going to happen, 7 would be great, 5 would be acceptable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2021, 08:39:34 PM
https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/positives-negatives-from-the-usmnt-draw-at-el-salvador-and-what-s-to-come-vs-can

Fair and balanced
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 03, 2021, 09:43:10 PM
https://www.espn.com/soccer/match/_/gameId/262889

More experienced? Absolutely.

But do you really want to say the roster from that game is the same talent level as last night's?

If 2010 played last night, the two best players on the team would be prime Dempsey and Donovan, and it wouldn't be particularly close.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 03, 2021, 10:00:55 PM
If 2010 played last night, the two best players on the team would be prime Dempsey and Donovan, and it wouldn't be particularly close.

Dempsey sure, but Donovan was on his decline, for both club, and certainly country.  His peak/prime was 06-08ish.  You could make the argument but I highly disagree it’s particularly close when you compare him with McKinnie and Adams.  McKinnie just put in 7 goals in a Serie A/CL campaign as a regular starter for a top tier club, and Adams has been a stalwart for a very good RB Leipzig team.  They don’t have as much international experience but have already experienced far more club level competition and intensity than Donovan ever did.  Little vacation runs with Everton aside.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2021, 10:07:11 PM
Dempsey sure, but Donovan was on his decline, for both club, and certainly country.  His peak/prime was 06-08ish.  You could make the argument but I highly disagree it’s particularly close when you compare him with McKinnie and Adams.  McKinnie just put in 7 goals in a Serie A/CL campaign as a regular starter for a top tier club, and Adams has been a stalwart for a very good RB Leipzig team.  They don’t have as much international experience but have already experienced far more club level competition and intensity than Donovan ever did.  Little vacation runs with Everton aside.

McKennie*

I know he didn't play last night, but pulisic also gotta be up there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 03, 2021, 10:34:47 PM
McKennie*

I know he didn't play last night, but pulisic also gotta be up there.

Double autocorrect and I kept on pushing. Shameful  ;D

I think he was meaning active roster.  Obviously Pulisic would be right there
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 04, 2021, 06:36:55 AM
McKennie*

I know he didn't play last night, but pulisic also gotta be up there.

Pulisic wasn't on the pitch, though. And Donovan scored as many in 09-10 (while assisting on nearly twice as many) as McKennie & Adams have in their international careers. He was also being deployed less as a forward due to Clint and Jozy and more as a creator.

I think both have the potential to eclipse him, but when it comes to qualifying and playing on those pitches, they aren't there yet. Adams' post-match comments only further confirmed that he's still developing what it takes to succeed in CONCACAF.

They'll likely get there, but I don't think there's some massive gulf between the #13 ranked 2010 team and today's #10 ranked team, especially when you factor in the experience gap. This team has had some nice results, but these matches are tough no matter what, history shows that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on September 04, 2021, 09:42:57 AM
The USMNT had numerous 1-0 victories this summer.  The offense is still a work in progress.  Expect a lot of low scoring grinders throughout qualifying.

Plus, the lineup against El Salvador wasn't a full top 11. No Pulisic, no Musah, no Brooks, Antonee Robinson played about 30 minutes, and no Weah who is probably 1st off the bench.  I expect better performances when the US has their very best players playing.  Especially during future qualifying windows when Musah is available.

But there are still plenty of questions with this team. First and foremost is the lack of a dynamic striker. Sargent doesn't look like the answer, Pefok isn't very well rounded, and Pepi is unproven at this level.

Qualifying will be a grind, just like it always is.  Hopefully, the Yanks can grow throughout this cycle and peak near the end.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 04, 2021, 10:56:56 AM
Pulisic wasn't on the pitch, though. And Donovan scored as many in 09-10 (while assisting on nearly twice as many) as McKennie & Adams have in their international careers. He was also being deployed less as a forward due to Clint and Jozy and more as a creator.

I think both have the potential to eclipse him, but when it comes to qualifying and playing on those pitches, they aren't there yet. Adams' post-match comments only further confirmed that he's still developing what it takes to succeed in CONCACAF.

Well McKennie is a box to box mid and Adams is more a defensive mid, so they will never score to the levels of Donovan, so goals aren’t a great metric.  McKennie’s totals for last year at Juve was more to how impressive it was to score that much from his position.

If you’re talking strictly as internationals, then that’s fair, no argument there.  I was talking as players in totality, club success and form included.

I think Sargent has hit a wall but it’s too early in to write him off.  He’s still only 21.  I think his time in the PL will help with some toughness
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 04, 2021, 11:09:09 AM
If you’re talking strictly as internationals, then that’s fair, no argument there.  I was talking as players in totality, club success and form included.

I am. We've seen their (considerable) upside in club play but I don't think anyone on the pitch Thursday has proven as capable an international as Donovan was, even to the end when he was clearly at less than the peak of his powers. It's a different game that requires a different approach and style.

My hope is as this group ages, McKennie, Pulisic, Adams, Reyna, and the rest will be our golden generation, hopefully peaking on home soil in 2026. I'm fine with waiting a bit for them to realize that potential.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 05, 2021, 02:29:23 PM
What's happening in Brazil today is nuts.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 05, 2021, 06:09:32 PM
McKennie's off the field issues now showing up in both Turin and the National Team squad. He's on thin ice and not an understatement to say his career is at a crossroads.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 05, 2021, 06:47:55 PM
McKennie's off the field issues now showing up in both Turin and the National Team squad. He's on thin ice and not an understatement to say his career is at a crossroads.

That is an insane exaggeration and overstatement. By all accounts this violation this week is breaking COVID protocol.  Not a great look and some immaturity but not some gargantuan red flag.  And his “off the field issues” in Turin? He had a party, which wouldn’t have been an issue other than COVID restrictions.  He’s scarcely the only person, much less athlete, who has been caught congregating with too many people over the last year.  His neighbor who called the police even went out of his way to say he was a good guy and a consummate pro otherwise.  Not like he was Balotelli throwing ragers and setting off fireworks.

He’s leaving Juve cause they brought Allegri back in who wants his own guys. If Pirlo was still there he’s still in the regular XI. And even so, he has no shortage of high level suitors.  And he’s one of the young stars for the US.  He’ll get a talking to and move on.  Guys across the world are getting drunk driving violations, domestic problems, fighting in Mykonos like Harry McGuire, and their careers aren’t affected.  WK’s situation is less severe than all of that.

I’m not excusing it and it’s the last distraction they need right now, but calling his career at a crossroads and thin ice after minor curfew violations, after the last 12-18 months he’s had, is some serious pearl clutching
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 05, 2021, 09:15:57 PM
Pretty uninspired 180 minutes so far, fears that my initial evaluation about Gregg may be correct...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 05, 2021, 09:56:22 PM
Draw at El Salvador is fine. Draw at home against Canada? That's a unnatural carnal knowledgeing disaster. Terrible sub management. Too long for Pulisic and Aaronson. No creativity. Poor free kick attempts from too far out. Honduras is now a must win game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 05, 2021, 10:08:21 PM
That is an insane exaggeration and overstatement. By all accounts this violation this week is breaking COVID protocol.  Not a great look and some immaturity but not some gargantuan red flag.  And his “off the field issues” in Turin? He had a party, which wouldn’t have been an issue other than COVID restrictions.  He’s scarcely the only person, much less athlete, who has been caught congregating with too many people over the last year.  His neighbor who called the police even went out of his way to say he was a good guy and a consummate pro otherwise.  Not like he was Balotelli throwing ragers and setting off fireworks.

He’s leaving Juve cause they brought Allegri back in who wants his own guys. If Pirlo was still there he’s still in the regular XI. And even so, he has no shortage of high level suitors.  And he’s one of the young stars for the US.  He’ll get a talking to and move on.  Guys across the world are getting drunk driving violations, domestic problems, fighting in Mykonos like Harry McGuire, and their careers aren’t affected.  WK’s situation is less severe than all of that.

I’m not excusing it and it’s the last distraction they need right now, but calling his career at a crossroads and thin ice after minor curfew violations, after the last 12-18 months he’s had, is some serious pearl clutching

It's not. There's a reason Juve's only concrete option for dumping him last week was Burnley.

Allegri isn't itching to get rid of Ramsey, Rabiot, Betancur, Bernadeschi or any of the other inherited competitors for McKennie. And that's all before Locatelli takes his rightful place as a starter. McKennie's talent isn't at a level to overcome being anything other than a boring member of the squad.

A "minor violation" suggests a lack of maturity at that time. Repeating the "minor violations" suggests an overall immaturity. Especially given the when/where/why of it all. His crossroads is not dropping out of the game. His crossroads is whether he has it off the field to stay at one of the largest clubs in Europe or if he finds his level decidedly below that. We've got three months until we find the answer. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 05, 2021, 10:13:39 PM
This is not going well.

Let's hope this young crew performs better and is coached better for 2026
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 05, 2021, 10:15:59 PM
Ummm... I would much rather have McKennie actually play at Aston Villa (most recent rumored destination) than sit on the bench at Juve. You dont have to be at a huge club, getting meaningful minutes is more important.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on September 05, 2021, 10:50:25 PM
Pretty uninspired 180 minutes so far, fears that my initial evaluation about Gregg may be correct...

5 years to judge.

What a disjointed mess.  I know there are a lot of untimely injuries, but the lineup choices and substitution patterns are head scratching.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 05, 2021, 11:04:32 PM
It's not. There's a reason Juve's only concrete option for dumping him last week was Burnley.

Allegri isn't itching to get rid of Ramsey, Rabiot, Betancur, Bernadeschi or any of the other inherited competitors for McKennie. And that's all before Locatelli takes his rightful place as a starter. McKennie's talent isn't at a level to overcome being anything other than a boring member of the squad.

A "minor violation" suggests a lack of maturity at that time. Repeating the "minor violations" suggests an overall immaturity. Especially given the when/where/why of it all. His crossroads is not dropping out of the game. His crossroads is whether he has it off the field to stay at one of the largest clubs in Europe or if he finds his level decidedly below that. We've got three months until we find the answer.

They have a very high value on him. It’s not like he’s being offered at a fire sale price with no takers. Bayern has sniffed around, Spurs, multiple other EPL teams, and now Villa is hot to trot.

And those “inherited” competitors…all played for Allegri before Pirlo took over. McKennie was not. Apples to oranges. It’s not like Allegri is a random external manager.

You’re clearly find these violations to be concerning and VERY egregious, which is fine, but seems a bit reactionary.  If you honestly think nobody wanted WK cause he had a party during COVID, well I don’t know what to tell you.  Phil Foden and Mason Greenwood got sent home from international play for breaking protocol.  Nobody is doubting their future.  You’re basically the only person I’ve seen that considers McKennie some flashing red flag.  He’s 22, just came off a season playing big minutes and contributing for a Champions League club and has a rep as a worker.  The idea that he’s radioactive cause of one minor incident that was barely a story outside of Turin is wild.  Bet you also think college basketball players who get underage drinking tickets aren’t mature enough to ever contribute at a high level
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 06, 2021, 04:52:36 PM
McKennie being sent back to Italy.

And no, his career isn't on thin ice. He did something dumb and is suffering the consequences of that, but he's 23 years old, very talented and will continue to find a home both in a top-flight European league and the USMNT.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 06, 2021, 05:46:36 PM
They have a very high value on him. It’s not like he’s being offered at a fire sale price with no takers. Bayern has sniffed around, Spurs, multiple other EPL teams, and now Villa is hot to trot.

And those “inherited” competitors…all played for Allegri before Pirlo took over. McKennie was not. Apples to oranges. It’s not like Allegri is a random external manager.

You’re clearly find these violations to be concerning and VERY egregious, which is fine, but seems a bit reactionary.  If you honestly think nobody wanted WK cause he had a party during COVID, well I don’t know what to tell you.  Phil Foden and Mason Greenwood got sent home from international play for breaking protocol.  Nobody is doubting their future.  You’re basically the only person I’ve seen that considers McKennie some flashing red flag.  He’s 22, just came off a season playing big minutes and contributing for a Champions League club and has a rep as a worker.  The idea that he’s radioactive cause of one minor incident that was barely a story outside of Turin is wild.  Bet you also think college basketball players who get underage drinking tickets aren’t mature enough to ever contribute at a high level

When people like Nicky Bandini, Gab Marcotti, Lars Sivirtsen and Julien Laurens openly talk about McKennie's attitude and behavior not being appreciated at Juventus and people like Jeff Carlisle and Grant Wahl describe his behavior this weekend as "inexcusable", "egregious", and "calls into question what he's really about" it makes clear I'm not the only person who sees his indiscipline being an issue.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 08, 2021, 10:03:57 PM
Bye Gregg
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 08, 2021, 10:33:16 PM
Pathetic half, really hope we only have 45 more minutes of Gregg.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 08, 2021, 11:23:17 PM
Far from convinced that we were the better team over the 90 but we were clinical when it mattered, and I did say 5 points was acceptable. However, next window with 2 home games and still no Mexico, 7 points will be the bar.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 08, 2021, 11:31:50 PM
Bye Gregg

Credit to the guy for getting everything right in the 2nd half.

Of course, had he just started with that formation and those players in those spots...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 08, 2021, 11:37:16 PM
Far from convinced that we were the better team over the 90 but we were clinical when it mattered, and I did say 5 points was acceptable. However, next window with 2 home games and still no Mexico, 7 points will be the bar.

Oh, they were the way better team. First half was crap, but they far outclassed Honduras over the 90.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on September 08, 2021, 11:42:57 PM
What a match from Pepi! Was involved in all 4 goals: 1 goal, 2 assists, and this close to a brace, with Lletget cleaning up the rebound.

Hopefully the team can get healthy for the next window.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 08, 2021, 11:56:12 PM
Oh, they were the way better team. First half was crap, but they far outclassed Honduras over the 90.

Credit to our finishing, we poured it on the last 15, but we were lucky not to be down 2 at half, and until we took the lead in the 75th we really only had one chance.  Think a draw would have been the fair result, but certainly won't complain with stealing three on the road.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 09, 2021, 09:28:09 AM
Awful first half, but what Berhalter did best in his summer run was using subs to adjust to opponents. Had he done that in the first two, we'd be on 7 or even 9 points, but this was enough to justifiably keep his job (though his brother wasn't likely firing him regardless).

I think he needs 6 from the next window to feel like we're back, though health may play in. Should be two very winnable home games, and anything 0-1 or better is acceptable at Panama. If he can get 7 or 9, it would feel like we're nearly through.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 09, 2021, 11:51:38 AM
Berhalter and McKennie should be buying Pepi every meal in their collective near future together. The kid saved their ass.

Berhalter got a lot more wrong in this window than he got right and the first half last night will be an anchor he won't get rid of as easy as he'd like. Mind boggling decisions include moving Adams out of the middle when you don't have the services of McKennie, not starting Aaronson, not starting ARob, and keeping Sands on for the second half.

McKennie breathed a sigh of relief once we got the Pepi spark. We were overrun in the middle and were weak-willed from the start and that kind of game begs for a player like McKennie. If Honduras hangs on or the US scratches a draw the focus would be squarely on McKennie's transgressions that lead to his dismissal from the camp thus leaving a gaping hole where he would normally be placed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 09, 2021, 12:16:37 PM
Berhalter and McKennie should be buying Pepi every meal in their collective near future together. The kid saved their ass.

Berhalter got a lot more wrong in this window than he got right and the first half last night will be an anchor he won't get rid of as easy as he'd like. Mind boggling decisions include moving Adams out of the middle when you don't have the services of McKennie, not starting Aaronson, not starting ARob, and keeping Sands on for the second half.

McKennie breathed a sigh of relief once we got the Pepi spark. We were overrun in the middle and were weak-willed from the start and that kind of game begs for a player like McKennie. If Honduras hangs on or the US scratches a draw the focus would be squarely on McKennie's transgressions that lead to his dismissal from the camp thus leaving a gaping hole where he would normally be placed.

This is just not true.  I know it's a drum you like to bang on, but anything other than three points, and all the headlines are about Gregg, full stop.  The starting XI, the tactics (or lack thereof until the second half), his future, everything.  McKennie would barely be a footnote.  The fact that even with the three points you have people saying that he saved his job in the second half just proves it even more.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 10, 2021, 10:28:06 AM
This is just not true.  I know it's a drum you like to bang on, but anything other than three points, and all the headlines are about Gregg, full stop.  The starting XI, the tactics (or lack thereof until the second half), his future, everything.  McKennie would barely be a footnote.  The fact that even with the three points you have people saying that he saved his job in the second half just proves it even more.

After the game, Onyewu, Dempsey, and Davies talked about how the result helped ease pressure on both Berhalter for the tactics and McKennie for the behavior.

So it was obviously focus enough for three former members of the National Team to spend time discussing it.

By the way, McKennie has a big chance tomorrow. Let's hope for the sake of our interests, he does well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 10, 2021, 04:46:43 PM
5 points in this window. Didn't play Mexico or Costa Rica and played Canada at home. Played one good half of soccer in three games.

Yikes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 10, 2021, 06:18:35 PM
5 points in this window. Didn't play Mexico or Costa Rica and played Canada at home. Played one good half of soccer in three games.

Yikes.

It's fine. Not good, but fine. Swap the Canada and Honduras results and it's exactly what we should expect. 21 should qualify, and if we win at home and draw a few on the road, we'll do that comfortably.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 10, 2021, 08:18:24 PM
It's fine. Not good, but fine. Swap the Canada and Honduras results and it's exactly what we should expect. 21 should qualify, and if we win at home and draw a few on the road, we'll do that comfortably.

And Canada is probably better than Costa Rica anyway.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 10, 2021, 08:39:53 PM
It's fine. Not good, but fine. Swap the Canada and Honduras results and it's exactly what we should expect. 21 should qualify, and if we win at home and draw a few on the road, we'll do that comfortably.

End result point wise is fine, but the overall performance and on the field management leave A LOT to be desired.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 10, 2021, 09:37:14 PM
It's fine. Not good, but fine. Swap the Canada and Honduras results and it's exactly what we should expect. 21 should qualify, and if we win at home and draw a few on the road, we'll do that comfortably.

Do the who, how and where matter? Or is it purely results?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 10, 2021, 09:49:13 PM
Do the who, how and where matter? Or is it purely results?

Points/results are all that matter but I think it’s helpful when looking at the form of a squad and the future.  If you’re not getting 3 points you should, but it’s offset by a stealing 3 where you’d normally get only expect 1, that’s a great.  But is it sustainable?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 10, 2021, 10:10:24 PM
Points/results are all that matter but I think it’s helpful when looking at the form of a squad and the future.  If you’re not getting 3 points you should, but it’s offset by a stealing 3 where you’d normally get only expect 1, that’s a great.  But is it sustainable?

True.

What matters more, do you think, strength of opponent or home v away?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 11, 2021, 05:35:02 AM
Points/results are all that matter but I think it’s helpful when looking at the form of a squad and the future.  If you’re not getting 3 points you should, but it’s offset by a stealing 3 where you’d normally get only expect 1, that’s a great.  But is it sustainable?

I agree with this. Honestly, my general expectation of those three matches would be to draw El Salvador, beat Canada, and Honduras would either be a loss or draw. So if I'm expecting 4.5 points and we get 5, that's okay.

My expectations are to win all our home games and get at least 3-4 points on the road. 24 points should be comfortably in the automatic places.

I know there's an idea that we should run roughshod over CONCACAF, but that's just not realistic. I look at it more in terms of points per match. 1.5 ppm (21 total in the Octagonal) never failed to qualify from the Hex and only once required a playoff. 1.7 ppm (24 total) never failed to automatically qualify from the Hex. 2 ppm (28 total) only once failed to top the group, which was when USA finished second on GD with 22 in 2006.

So 21 points I'm okay with. 24 I'm really happy. 28 and we should be dancing in the streets. This cycle isn't about anything other than qualifying. It's 1990 all over again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 11, 2021, 07:51:49 AM
And in reality, with the expansion of the WC to 48 teams with 6 from CONCACAF, this is probably the last tournament that the US is going to face any sort of competition in qualifying.  Just getting in is fine.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 11, 2021, 08:00:29 AM
And in reality, with the expansion of the WC to 48 teams with 6 from CONCACAF, this is probably the last tournament that the US is going to face any sort of competition in qualifying.  Just getting in is fine.

Yup. And unless we finish in the FIFA top-7, any group we are in will likely be one of the Groups of Death simply because of our presence. It will have a seeded team, a European team, and we will be one of the strongest teams in our pot. Whoever else ends up there won't change a likely guarantee of at least three good sides. So just get in and let the rest sort itself out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 11, 2021, 08:54:24 AM
That was not a fun game.

#spurs
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 12, 2021, 02:36:54 PM
Anyone know why MU soccer's fallen to hell the past two games? Is there an injury or something?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on September 26, 2021, 06:50:36 PM
Number of fans of a certain club very quiet today. Why so?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 26, 2021, 08:42:13 PM
Number of fans of a certain club very quiet today. Why so?

Not much to talk about.  Life is suffering, eat at Arby's.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 27, 2021, 10:50:06 AM
Lot of season left. Lot of time to fix your problems however big they may be.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 28, 2021, 04:31:59 PM
Sheriff take down Real Madrid at the Bernabau.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 28, 2021, 05:31:41 PM
Lot of season left. Lot of time to fix your problems however big they may be.

I don't know if Spurs have the roster or management to fix this
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 28, 2021, 06:53:38 PM
Sheriff take down Real Madrid at the Bernabau.

And sit on top of their group with six points.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 28, 2021, 07:41:54 PM
I don't know if Spurs have the roster or management to fix this

If only there was a way that they could have generated 100,000,000 to reinvest in the club/squad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 29, 2021, 06:18:29 PM
Not much to talk about.  Life is suffering, eat at Arby's.

I forgot to tell you to suck it.

Probably because I didn't recognize the team on the pitch Sunday as Arsenal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 29, 2021, 07:58:05 PM
https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/three-big-takeaways-from-the-usmnt-roster-for-october-world-cup-qualifiers

I really like Doyle
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 03, 2021, 03:23:17 PM
City Liverpool has really become the most entertaining matchup in the world.  That second half might have been the most exciting 45 minutes that has ever occurred in the Prem in October, it had everything.  Splitting the points was probably the fair result, but it certainly looked like Milner should have seen red, would have changed the game completely.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 03, 2021, 05:58:27 PM
City Liverpool has really become the most entertaining matchup in the world.  That second half might have been the most exciting 45 minutes that has ever occurred in the Prem in October, it had everything.  Splitting the points was probably the fair result, but it certainly looked like Milner should have seen red, would have changed the game completely.

I remember like 3 years ago, there were a couple City-LFC affairs that were big in the lead up, but ended up being drags, but lately they have all been absolute must watch events.  Salah was absolutely sublime this afternoon.  He's got a legit argument for being in the convo for best player in the world based on current form
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on October 07, 2021, 08:45:01 PM
Pepi le-pow.

Referee kept Jamaica in the game.   But never really a doubt.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 07, 2021, 08:47:27 PM
Should've been 11 v 9 most of the game, but the better side won. Considering they started with two draws, in decent position now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 07, 2021, 08:54:18 PM
Players that surprised me tonight: Musah, Arriola, Weah
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 08, 2021, 10:04:48 AM
Still a small sample size, but concerns about the no. 9 are dropping by the game.

Didn't create a ton going forward which was somewhat to be expected considering the players missing.

Adams needs to be named permanent captain, highest work rate on the team by far.

Top of the table and still on pace for a 7 point window, keep the momentum.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 08, 2021, 11:21:46 AM
Still a small sample size, but concerns about the no. 9 are dropping by the game.

Didn't create a ton going forward which was somewhat to be expected considering the players missing.

Adams needs to be named permanent captain, highest work rate on the team by far.

Top of the table and still on pace for a 7 point window, keep the momentum.

Agree with this and thought it was interesting that Zimmerman got the band when Adams was subbed.

Thought Musah was very good for his first time out there. Dest was active. Zimmerman and Robinson seemed a pretty decent pair even if Jamaica is weak up top.

Aaronson is quickly moving into the Clint Dempsey "he just does $hit" position. That's always needed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 08, 2021, 11:55:19 AM
Agree with this and thought it was interesting that Zimmerman got the band when Adams was subbed.

Thought Musah was very good for his first time out there. Dest was active. Zimmerman and Robinson seemed a pretty decent pair even if Jamaica is weak up top.

Aaronson is quickly moving into the Clint Dempsey "he just does $hit" position. That's always needed.

The work rate of the majority of our team is unnatural carnal knowledgeing impressive
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 10, 2021, 07:02:32 PM
Berhalter threw that game away in hopes of getting a W vs Costa Rica.

He'd better pray it pays off.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 11, 2021, 05:04:17 AM
Incredibly uninspiring performance. Panama maintained the better possession, created the best chances. The only players that really looked good were Zimmerman, Musah, and Turner. This window was a chance to create some separation, now we're chasing again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 11, 2021, 08:53:30 AM
Looks like a big dropoff in talent after the top 12-15. Against Jamaica, 9 starters were legit first choice starters and Zimmermann could arguably be the 10th. Against Panama, only 2-3 starters could be considered top 12-15 players.  And the results showed that difference.

I really wish Berhalter would have tried players like LDLT, Busio, and Hoppe last night.  The tendency to stick with low upside veterans is super frustrating.

At some point, you have to see what the young players can do in WCQ.  The USMNT second team is a bit of a mystery at this point.  There's no clear cut second choice at striker, and the second midfield is completely unsettled.  Figuring out these players could make the difference between qualifying and not qualifying.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 11, 2021, 09:48:57 AM
Looks like a big dropoff in talent after the top 12-15. Against Jamaica, 9 starters were legit first choice starters and Zimmermann could arguably be the 10th. Against Panama, only 2-3 starters could be considered top 12-15 players.  And the results showed that difference.

I really wish Berhalter would have tried players like LDLT, Busio, and Hoppe last night.  The tendency to stick with low upside veterans is super frustrating.

At some point, you have to see what the young players can do in WCQ.  The USMNT second team is a bit of a mystery at this point.  There's no clear cut second choice at striker, and the second midfield is completely unsettled.  Figuring out these players could make the difference between qualifying and not qualifying.

A disaster from tip to tail.

Berhalther will always be the anchor in hopes to achieve something. Busio came in as the best American playing in Serie A and he's nailed to the bench? Hoppe is playing for Mallorca and having an impact yet Zardes gets the call? Not starting Pepi? Yanking Musah at half when he was the least of our problems in the midfield?

These are mind boggling decisions. This will be two out of two windows where the team looks uninspired, ill-prepared, and has yet to put together a full and comprehensive performance. We can't afford to let a guy like this learn on the job.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 11, 2021, 10:10:38 AM
He admitted in postgame all his starters/sub decisions were based on a win vs Costa Rica.

If it works out, it's fine. But frustrating.

I guess I understand starting less talented veterans on the road. But if you're resigned to a draw (at best) or a loss, why not start the potentially more talented/less experienced guys?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 11, 2021, 03:53:25 PM
I keep telling myself qualification is what matters. Berhalter just has to get us there, then hopefully they replace him.

Though I have to say, knowing that Canada, Mexico, and USA will all be auto-qualifiers as hosts in 2026, what kind of a train-wreck is the next round of CONCACAF qualifying going to look like.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 12, 2021, 10:15:19 AM
He admitted in postgame all his starters/sub decisions were based on a win vs Costa Rica.

If it works out, it's fine. But frustrating.

I guess I understand starting less talented veterans on the road. But if you're resigned to a draw (at best) or a loss, why not start the potentially more talented/less experienced guys?

To me, that is balls crazy even if it ends up positive.

Berhalter manages a Federation that failed to qualify the last time around and is treading a similar path yet he's tossing games away in preparation for games that haven't happened as if that's a legitimate way to manage.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 12, 2021, 11:20:05 AM
To me, that is balls crazy even if it ends up positive.

Berhalter manages a Federation that failed to qualify the last time around and is treading a similar path yet he's tossing games away in preparation for games that haven't happened as if that's a legitimate way to manage.

Exactly.

Why paint yourself into a corner needing a win vs Costa Rica? Start your best against Panama. If you get 3 there, whatever you can get (at home) against CR is icing.

Now, however, there's tons of pressure
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 13, 2021, 11:19:19 AM
Exactly.

Why paint yourself into a corner needing a win vs Costa Rica? Start your best against Panama. If you get 3 there, whatever you can get (at home) against CR is icing.

Now, however, there's tons of pressure

With McKennie injured, A. Robinson unable to travel, and the three games in 7 days, I understand focusing on the Costa Rica game.

But then use the Panama game to get a look at Hoppe, Busio, and LDLT. The depth chart in midfield and striker is unsettled after the first choice.  We're nearly through two qualifying windows and we have no idea who subs in for injuries or suspensions.

Acosta, Lletget, and Zardes can play limited roles but they don't have the ability to carry a second team.   We need to find players that can.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 13, 2021, 12:23:51 PM
With McKennie injured, A. Robinson unable to travel, and the three games in 7 days, I understand focusing on the Costa Rica game.

But then use the Panama game to get a look at Hoppe, Busio, and LDLT. The depth chart in midfield and striker is unsettled after the first choice.  We're nearly through two qualifying windows and we have no idea who subs in for injuries or suspensions.

Acosta, Lletget, and Zardes can play limited roles but they don't have the ability to carry a second team.   We need to find players that can.

Other nations, including the Panama team that just beat the US, are using primarily the same lineup in the qualifiers despite 3 in 7.


The US players should be able to play 3 in 7.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 13, 2021, 06:13:59 PM
Exhibit A of why you try to win every game
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 13, 2021, 08:00:33 PM
Exhibit A of why you try to win every game

I stand by this
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 13, 2021, 08:30:43 PM
6 point window, should have been a 7 point window, I guess I'll take it.  Knowing we still have Mexico twice is worrisome, but with the next window only being 2 games and one of them being Mexico at home, a 6 point window in Nov would surely see us through. Probably too much to ask though.

Edit: Also, Navas would have saved that second goal, no doubt my mind. Take the points and run though.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 14, 2021, 10:01:32 AM
USMNT very fortunate to come away with 3 points. But I'll take it.

Busio and Hoppe both looked good in limited minutes.  Too bad they didn't get more playing time in this window, especially against Panama.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 14, 2021, 10:43:07 AM
I stand by this

I'm with you. Think Berhalter had his bacon saved and there's still problems aplenty here with preparation and selection.

6 point window, should have been a 7 point window, I guess I'll take it.  Knowing we still have Mexico twice is worrisome, but with the next window only being 2 games and one of them being Mexico at home, a 6 point window in Nov would surely see us through. Probably too much to ask though.

Edit: Also, Navas would have saved that second goal, no doubt my mind. Take the points and run though.

This is a good point.

Weah was dynamic and, frankly, may be hard to keep him off the field if he stays healthy. But the goal came from a second rate keeper displaying why he's a second rate keeper.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on October 17, 2021, 12:01:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc2_MJjil9c


My son's high school
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 19, 2021, 03:50:48 PM
https://twitter.com/DeadlineDayLive/status/1450518758435528709?t=IWWDmY7wSO3IqCqgXi-L0A&s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 19, 2021, 04:04:09 PM
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3389654/fifa-wanted-dollar1-billion-so-ea-sports-is-ending-a-3-decade-long-partnership
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 19, 2021, 04:05:09 PM
https://twitter.com/DeadlineDayLive/status/1450518758435528709?t=IWWDmY7wSO3IqCqgXi-L0A&s=19


So do the Euros and Copa America just go to the odd years? If so, how do they have time to qualify? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 19, 2021, 05:08:13 PM

So do the Euros and Copa America just go to the odd years? If so, how do they have time to qualify?

I would assume this does away with all confederation competitions.

Just constant cycles of quals and WC
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 19, 2021, 06:33:16 PM
I would assume this does away with all confederation competitions.

Just constant cycles of quals and WC

that's got to be the idea. Why would UEFA and the others make the money FIFA could be making and squeezing out of more hosts now.

Un-f'ing-believable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 19, 2021, 08:24:03 PM
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3389654/fifa-wanted-dollar1-billion-so-ea-sports-is-ending-a-3-decade-long-partnership

I could be wrong, but I don't think this will affect any of the leagues.  So EA FC, or whatever the new game that EA inevitably makes, could still feature all the EPL, La Liga, etc... content it would just affect some of their International play stuff, as well as the title.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on October 21, 2021, 07:44:45 PM
USWNT decidedly not dominating Korea.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 23, 2021, 08:26:36 AM
If I were a Norwich fan, I think I would prefer playing in the Championship since their approach the the Premier League is so uninspiring.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 23, 2021, 09:59:31 AM
If I were a Norwich fan, I think I would prefer playing in the Championship since their approach the the Premier League is so uninspiring.

At least you're playing for something then.  As opposed to just existing.  Like Arsenal fans.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 23, 2021, 10:42:27 AM
If I were a Norwich fan, I think I would prefer playing in the Championship since their approach the the Premier League is so uninspiring.

That’s what I said when they got promoted. You knew they were gonna get battered and there was no intrigue.  Their owners and stadium and everything is a cute story but not when they’ve been yo-yoing forever.  This will be their 6th relegation from the EPL.  2 goals in 9 is embarrassing.

Sargent’s move is looking like a big mistake
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 23, 2021, 12:16:24 PM
Sargent’s move is looking like a big mistake

Not necessarily. He gets a year on Premier League wages and if he does well, either he earns a transfer when they go down or gets to prove himself in a solid league.

As a Reading fan, I'd always rather be in the PL. It's really hard to follow a Championship side from this side of the pond. If you're dedicated and have time you can do it, but it's far easier to follow a Prem side.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 23, 2021, 01:05:26 PM
Not necessarily. He gets a year on Premier League wages and if he does well, either he earns a transfer when they go down or gets to prove himself in a solid league.

As a Reading fan, I'd always rather be in the PL. It's really hard to follow a Championship side from this side of the pond. If you're dedicated and have time you can do it, but it's far easier to follow a Prem side.

How much is a striker going to impress or “earn a transfer” playing for a club that will be lucky to net 20-25 goals this season?  I get why you make a move to the EPL, but a young international capped striker going to a club like Norwich seems like a dead end. He’s only 21, he has years of high level earning potential.  A season making $1MM or so more at the expense of improving your profile seems ehh. I’m not saying he should have stayed at a relegated Werder Bremen, just that Norwich wasn’t ideal.  Feels like Altidore’s mess at Hull City
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 23, 2021, 01:51:19 PM
How much is a striker going to impress or “earn a transfer” playing for a club that will be lucky to net 20-25 goals this season?  I get why you make a move to the EPL, but a young international capped striker going to a club like Norwich seems like a dead end. He’s only 21, he has years of high level earning potential.  A season making $1MM or so more at the expense of improving your profile seems ehh. I’m not saying he should have stayed at a relegated Werder Bremen, just that Norwich wasn’t ideal.  Feels like Altidore’s mess at Hull City

Meh. Kevin Doyle tore up the Championship in 2006, okay in two PL seasons with Reading, then great again when they were relegated. He was bought by Wolves and back in the Prem a year after relegation. Shane Long did nothing in the Prem but made the most when he became Reading's primary striker after relegation. He was bought back into the PL and has been there over a decade.

If he has the game, he'll get back. Maybe he'll have to toil a bit in the Championship, but it's not like he didn't know relegation was a real possibility when he came. Like you said, he's 21, plenty of time to grow into a viable international.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 23, 2021, 06:25:45 PM
Not necessarily. He gets a year on Premier League wages and if he does well, either he earns a transfer when they go down or gets to prove himself in a solid league.

As a Reading fan, I'd always rather be in the PL. It's really hard to follow a Championship side from this side of the pond. If you're dedicated and have time you can do it, but it's far easier to follow a Prem side.

Aren't Championship games on ESPN+?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on October 23, 2021, 07:55:03 PM
That Watford vs. Everton match was on crack today.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 23, 2021, 08:26:07 PM
Aren't Championship games on ESPN+?

I believe so, but I don't subscribe to ESPN's online.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on October 23, 2021, 09:13:03 PM
Aren't Championship games on ESPN+?

Some. I think about 1/3 of Fulham games have been on ESPN+ so far. The rest have been available in the US solely on the Fulham FC app.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 23, 2021, 09:14:01 PM
huh, no one cared about my Arsenal comment.  You guys all owners of Arsenal or something?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 23, 2021, 09:40:54 PM
I believe so, but I don't subscribe to ESPN's online.

Do the hulu bundle w/ Disney + and espn +.

Disney for your kids, espn + for you
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 24, 2021, 06:40:47 AM
Do the hulu bundle w/ Disney + and espn +.

Disney for your kids, espn + for you

I got Disney+ for me and signed up for 3 years months before it launched. I'll probably look at it after that deal runs out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 24, 2021, 11:40:55 AM
Mo Salah is SUPERHUMAN.  I don't know if anyone is better in the world right now.

Liverpool is singlehandedly sending Ole back to Norway
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 25, 2021, 09:37:55 AM
At least you're playing for something then.  As opposed to just existing.  Like Arsenal fans.


huh, no one cared about my Arsenal comment.  You guys all owners of Arsenal or something?


Arsenal played for something last year. And won.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 25, 2021, 10:38:02 AM


Arsenal played for something last year. And won.

Wooo, the Community Shield!!!

Haven't finished top 4 in 5 years and trending down.  Havent finished above 5th since Wenger left and doesn't seem likely this year.  But hey, FA Cups, woot woot.

Arsenal fans 10-15 years ago would have obnoxiously mocked Chelsea, United, Liverpool, etc... for bragging about an FA Cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 25, 2021, 12:03:12 PM
Wooo, the Community Shield!!!

Haven't finished top 4 in 5 years and trending down.  Havent finished above 5th since Wenger left and doesn't seem likely this year.  But hey, FA Cups, woot woot.

Arsenal fans 10-15 years ago would have obnoxiously mocked Chelsea, United, Liverpool, etc... for bragging about an FA Cup.

100%
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 25, 2021, 06:10:01 PM
Wooo, the Community Shield!!!

Haven't finished top 4 in 5 years and trending down.  Havent finished above 5th since Wenger left and doesn't seem likely this year.  But hey, FA Cups, woot woot.

Arsenal fans 10-15 years ago would have obnoxiously mocked Chelsea, United, Liverpool, etc... for bragging about an FA Cup.

100%


It didn't need a commentary as it's reality they won the FA Cup last year. Thus why the guy's joke about just existing landed with a thud. That's it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 25, 2021, 06:12:32 PM

It didn't need a commentary as it's reality they won the FA Cup last year. Thus why the guy's joke about just existing landed with a thud. That's it.

hang a banner.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 25, 2021, 06:20:34 PM

It didn't need a commentary as it's reality they won the FA Cup last year. Thus why the guy's joke about just existing landed with a thud. That's it.

2 seasons ago**
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 26, 2021, 08:24:52 PM
Still alive in the Carabao Cup….
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 02, 2021, 07:04:21 AM
Spurs won El Sackico.  Conte in.  Ole still at the wheel.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on November 02, 2021, 09:21:11 AM
Still alive in the Carabao Cup….

Credit to Arsenal that they've had a solid couple months after that disastrous August. With a decently soft schedule coming up (and the gift of drawing Sunderland in the Carabao), Arteta should be safe and have them in an interesting position come January. Looking forward to seeing if they blow it this fall or wait until they get their fans' hopes up and blow it in the spring.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 02, 2021, 12:30:35 PM
Spurs won El Sackico.  Conte in.  Ole still at the wheel.

How tf did they convince Conte to come at this juncture?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 02, 2021, 12:33:00 PM
How tf did they convince Conte to come at this juncture?


This time they gave him what he wanted.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 02, 2021, 12:42:04 PM
How tf did they convince Conte to come at this juncture?

This time they gave him what he wanted.

Yea, I assumed Levy was being stingy or steadfast in his demands over the summer but now acquiesced out of desperation
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on November 02, 2021, 12:54:49 PM

This time they gave him what he wanted.

Conte apparently is a big Kane fan, and among the reasons for his hesitancy over the summer was the uncertainty over whether or not Spurs would sell him.
The other issue that's been settled is that with things reopened in London and another lockdown seeming highly unlikely, the club can count on stadium revenues that 5-6 months ago were far less assured.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 02, 2021, 02:33:35 PM
Conte apparently is a big Kane fan, and among the reasons for his hesitancy over the summer was the uncertainty over whether or not Spurs would sell him.
The other issue that's been settled is that with things reopened in London and another lockdown seeming highly unlikely, the club can count on stadium revenues that 5-6 months ago were far less assured.

Bingo.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 03, 2021, 11:14:00 PM
I know it’s MLS, but this is messed up. Must be something in the water at Soldier Field with management being idiots.

https://twitter.com/ChrisRifer/status/1456103773500178433

Fire “told "seven players, six regular starters" that they won't be back next year, and those players don't plan to play on Decision Day.”
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on November 04, 2021, 07:55:40 AM
I know it’s MLS, but this is messed up. Must be something in the water at Soldier Field with management being idiots.

https://twitter.com/ChrisRifer/status/1456103773500178433

Fire “told "seven players, six regular starters" that they won't be back next year, and those players don't plan to play on Decision Day.”

Befitting its name, that organization needs to be burned to the ground and rebuilt from scratch.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 06, 2021, 10:57:32 AM
Any other club, I’d say losing 7-0 aggregate at home against your two biggest rivals in a two week stretch would get a manager fired, but United are run so poorly that Ole will most definitely see the end of the season.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 06, 2021, 12:13:33 PM
Any other club, I’d say losing 7-0 aggregate at home against your two biggest rivals in a two week stretch would get a manager fired, but United are run so poorly that Ole will most definitely see the end of the season.

I don’t know how much you can expect from a club with such meager, budget talent
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 06, 2021, 12:19:42 PM
Any other club, I’d say losing 7-0 aggregate at home against your two biggest rivals in a two week stretch would get a manager fired, but United are run so poorly that Ole will most definitely see the end of the season.

My guess is that he's gone by the end of the year.  Right now, who would they hire? 

Ponch may end up there next year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 06, 2021, 03:36:43 PM
My guess is that he's gone by the end of the year.  Right now, who would they hire? 

Ponch may end up there next year.

Erik ten Hag is the name that a lot of MU fans want.  The list of managers that would be an upgrade over Ole is much longer; Fonseca, Favre, Bosz, Gasperini.  It sounds like Eddie Howe is heading to Newcastle, but there are still quite a few very highly regarded names floating out there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 06, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Erik ten Hag is the name that a lot of MU fans want.  The list of managers that would be an upgrade over Ole is much longer; Fonseca, Favre, Bosz, Gasperini.  It sounds like Eddie Howe is heading to Newcastle, but there are still quite a few very highly regarded names floating out there.

Ten Hag…cause the last Dutch manger at United with no PL experience as a player or manager went so well.  I think Fonseca is very interesting for them.  Favre feels like he’d be out of his depth and Gasperini has too good of a thing to trade in for United drama
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 07, 2021, 09:12:58 AM
Fair. Personally I think Ten Hag would do very well in the Prem and have significantly more success than LVG, and unless he’s really happy having his team poached every five years it’s only a matter of time before he gets a job at a “big” club somewhere in Europe.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2021, 06:40:49 AM
This is the one that you always circle on your calendar.  Sure Nations League and Gold Cups are nice, but if you want to really announce that the next generation has arrived, this is where it needs to be done.  Mid 40s and a 50% chance of rain tonight in Cincy, wouldn't mind knocking 5-10 more degrees of that, whatever it takes to keep Mexico as uncomfortable as possible.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 12, 2021, 09:44:39 AM
This is the one that you always circle on your calendar.  Sure Nations League and Gold Cups are nice, but if you want to really announce that the next generation has arrived, this is where it needs to be done.  Mid 40s and a 50% chance of rain tonight in Cincy, wouldn't mind knocking 5-10 more degrees of that, whatever it takes to keep Mexico as uncomfortable as possible.

Just keep the crowd free of homophobic chants and the sidelines free of bottles and bags of urine being thrown, they will be so uncomfortable and out of place, might as well be playing on the moon
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 12, 2021, 09:51:33 AM
This is the one that you always circle on your calendar.  Sure Nations League and Gold Cups are nice, but if you want to really announce that the next generation has arrived, this is where it needs to be done.  Mid 40s and a 50% chance of rain tonight in Cincy, wouldn't mind knocking 5-10 more degrees of that, whatever it takes to keep Mexico as uncomfortable as possible.

Injuries to some of USMNTs best, unfortunately
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2021, 09:38:16 PM
CONCACAF gonna CONCACAF
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2021, 09:44:43 PM
Captain fuc**ng America
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on November 12, 2021, 09:45:19 PM
Nice of them to wait until the MU game was over to score.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2021, 09:55:24 PM
It’s that score line again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 13, 2021, 06:21:54 AM
Too bad Honduras couldn't hold on.  Otherwise a perfect night with Canada winning.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 13, 2021, 07:57:34 AM
Really enjoyable to watch. I know the announcers talked about Mexico having the better first half, but while they had the better chances, they were all on the counter. I think we mostly played how we wanted and I really liked how Weah played. It wasn't a great half, but it was fine and Steffen stepped up to stop shots when needed.

The second was great. Obviously the return of Pulisic and the goal, then the Dos a Cero scoreline again, but really it was just looking like we were in control against a quality opponent. I've been up and down on Berhalter but, considering where we now stand, particularly after how we all felt at halftime of the Honduras match, he's done a great job regrouping. In the past 4.5 games, they've taken 12 points.

If they can get the win at Jamaica, qualification is virtually assured, especially with home games left against the two teams at the bottom of the table. I'm cautiously optimistic.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on November 13, 2021, 05:17:12 PM
Weah and Zimmerman best guys on the field. Steffen saved the bacon in the first half setting up the opportunity to perform in the second and the team took it. Berhalter must have some halftime voodoo with his little notebook because the team clearly responds, at some point, after the break.

Still wondering how Herrera didn't get booked for the tackle on the man in the mirror.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 15, 2021, 02:39:25 PM
It's really dumb that we are playing Jamaica at 4:00 pm on a Tuesday. Even in EST (where Jamaica is) it's 5:00 pm. Really early. Not at all a fan.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 16, 2021, 09:39:57 AM
Gotta love Canada putting November game v. Mexico in Edmonton.

https://twitter.com/JacobPacheco6/status/1460554213440819203
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 16, 2021, 04:48:49 PM
USSF should be ashamed for placing WCQs behind a paywall
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 16, 2021, 05:17:21 PM
Gotta love Canada putting November game v. Mexico in Edmonton.

https://twitter.com/JacobPacheco6/status/1460554213440819203

As a former competitive soccer player, playing a game on a snowy and/or frozen pitch is awful and frankly dangerous cause its rock hard.  There is a reason they take the winter off in Northern European countries.  That being said, its as dangerous as playing among the animals at Azteca so LOLZ
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 16, 2021, 06:03:44 PM
Gotta love Canada putting November game v. Mexico in Edmonton.

https://twitter.com/JacobPacheco6/status/1460554213440819203

The US has also had a March game against Costa Rica in Denver where it snowed; the "Snow Clasico."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9xuaQDkmL8

Home field advantage!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on November 16, 2021, 06:51:24 PM
They stole that point and failed to build on the Mexico win. Seems a pattern with this coach and this team. Every time they say "we're focused on the next one" after a surprise result, they look unenthused and arrogant in their play. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 16, 2021, 07:02:04 PM
They stole that point and failed to build on the Mexico win. Seems a pattern with this coach and this team. Every time they say "we're focused on the next one" after a surprise result, they look unenthused and arrogant in their play.

The USMNT Wojo?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 16, 2021, 08:52:55 PM
https://twitter.com/thegoalkeeper/status/1460800191263563777?t=HBvPBqnIJDcQEfdXPhUtEg&s=19

 :o
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 16, 2021, 09:40:50 PM
https://twitter.com/thegoalkeeper/status/1460800191263563777?t=HBvPBqnIJDcQEfdXPhUtEg&s=19

 :o

I'm sure that will go off without a hitch, no issues
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 17, 2021, 08:48:11 AM
It would have been nice if Honduras and/or El Salvador would have been able to hold onto their halftime leads v. Panama.  Or at least forced them to draw.  Automatic qualification would have been a slam dunk had that happened.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 17, 2021, 09:18:23 AM
Yea there’s a pretty clear divide between top 4 and bottom 4, and it’s kinda disappointing that in a window where we beat Mexico, Panama closes the gap on us because we couldn’t beat Jamaica. We need to avoid that playoff at all costs. The good news is that in the January window we have two home games against the two worst teams in the “oct” and a road game in Canada, while Panama has two road games, including one at Azteca where Mexico should be close to desperate. I would think 7 points in January should see the job done.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 24, 2021, 09:47:38 AM
USMNT announces home locations for the January/February window. El Salvador in Columbus, a likely road trip to Hamilton for Iceteca II with Canada, then to St. Paul to take on Honduras. Guessing the hope is the players will acclimate to the cold in the first game. Those could be some brutal qualifying weather environments.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 24, 2021, 01:10:33 PM
USMNT announces home locations for the January/February window. El Salvador in Columbus, a likely road trip to Hamilton for Iceteca II with Canada, then to St. Paul to take on Honduras. Guessing the hope is the players will acclimate to the cold in the first game. Those could be some brutal qualifying weather environments.

St Paul in February is certainly a choice
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 04, 2021, 05:34:14 PM
Origi with another huge timely goal for Liverpool today.  Klopp told him "Go out and be Divock" before sending him on late in the match.

I can't think of another player like him during his Liverpool tenure.  He's like a soccer version of Robert Horry.  Never a regular starter and a bit lacking up top when he's been a relied upon striker, but has been incredible as a super sub and has some of the biggest goals in recent LFC history.

The fact that he's been in that role for 6 seasons is wild.  Especially for a European international.  Just a true commitment to Klopp and the club.  The craziest thing is that he's only 26 as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 05, 2021, 07:12:06 AM
Jesse Marsch will be the new manager at Leipzig.  That's a pretty big deal.

...and he was sacked today.  They are 11th place in the Bundesliga and have lost three straight. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 05, 2021, 11:04:38 AM
...and he was sacked today.  They are 11th place in the Bundesliga and have lost three straight.

Watched every match this season. The system worked. As best it could given Leipzig sold the spine over the summer.

But in every other match a wildly stupid decision by a defender in or around the box or a midfielder who was too easily dispossessed late in the game did them in. Dropped too many points from a winning position.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 06, 2021, 03:25:28 PM
Everton just got VAR'd so brutally.  Not at all in the spirit of the rule.

UPDATE:  Apparently ball dont lie
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 06, 2021, 04:01:19 PM
Everton just got VAR'd so brutally.  Not at all in the spirit of the rule.

UPDATE:  Apparently ball dont lie


Yeah that was something.  The announcers were great.

https://twitter.com/NBCSportsSoccer/status/1467976379186749441?s=20
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 06, 2021, 04:23:17 PM

Yeah that was something.  The announcers were great.

https://twitter.com/NBCSportsSoccer/status/1467976379186749441?s=20

They were great all match.  Didn't realize how much Stephen Warnock sounds like Tyson Fury
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on December 06, 2021, 07:10:02 PM

Yeah that was something.  The announcers were great.

https://twitter.com/NBCSportsSoccer/status/1467976379186749441?s=20

I've never understood why soccer announcers are so quick to declare a win or loss when there is still time on the clock as they did here. I remember Ian Darke lamenting on the USWNT losing against Brazil in 2011 when Abby Wambach decided that wasn't going to happen. Here, it's Everton. If anyone in the EPL can give up a lead in the final four minutes it would be them (like when Pickford misplayed a high ball in the final minutes against Liverpool a few years back after the announcers declared the match would end in a draw).

That was a wicked shot and goal too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 08, 2021, 03:56:37 PM
Barcelona doesn't qualify for the knockout stage of the Champions League for the first time since 2004.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 13, 2021, 07:15:57 AM
UEFA seeing the FIA screw up Sunday deciding that they need to up their controversy game to keep pace.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 28, 2021, 01:06:00 PM
First time in over six years that a teams opponent goes down to 10 three games in a row. The results? 5 points. That’s the most Spurs thing I’ve ever seen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 28, 2021, 06:02:49 PM
First time in over six years that a teams opponent goes down to 10 three games in a row. The results? 5 points. That’s the most Spurs thing I’ve ever seen.

Total BS offsides call
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 28, 2021, 07:03:55 PM
Total BS offsides call

If you want to go there; should have been suspended for what should have been a straight red against Liverpool.  End of the day, it's still two points dropped.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 19, 2022, 04:30:38 PM
What a fking game

Spurs
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 19, 2022, 04:46:58 PM
What a fking game

Spurs
DVD.

Holy shít!  Shades of Amsterdam!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 21, 2022, 04:47:40 PM
Josh Sargent finally opens his account at Norwich with an absolute gem

https://twitter.com/NBCSportsSoccer/status/1484635040927657985?s=20

Then follows it up with a second.  Huge game in a huge moment for Norwich.  Still think they end up going down but good for him.  Hope he grabs even more form
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on January 21, 2022, 07:46:16 PM
Pretty big moments for Josh. 2 goals and a big win. At 21 years old, he’s the 3rd youngest American to score in the Premier League.

https://twitter.com/nbcsportssoccer/status/1484635040927657985?s=21

https://twitter.com/nbcsportssoccer/status/1484640382466269186?s=21

Well earned respect of his teammates, coaches, and fans for his high character and work ethic. SLSG celebrates tonight.

https://twitter.com/nbcsportssoccer/status/1484648692535676930?s=21
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on January 26, 2022, 01:24:19 PM
well here's a new one. Diluting the importance of World Cup to hold it every two years (and make FIFA billions) will solve the "refugee crisis."

FIFA president Gianni Infantino linked his plan for biennial World Cups on Wednesday to giving more hope to Africans who risk their lives crossing the sea to Europe.

The African refugees I've worked with and assisted over the years could have stayed in their countries and not had to flee civil war if only the World Cup were held every two years. Who knew?  ::)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 27, 2022, 12:52:49 PM
Matt Turner on the cusp of moving from the NE Revolution to Arsenal.  Start back up the USMNT to EPL GK pipeline
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 27, 2022, 07:52:37 PM
Survive and advance. Well not really but it felt that way.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on January 27, 2022, 08:12:42 PM
Don’t know what it is exactly, but I don’t enjoy this US team very much. But will gladly take the 3 points. Hopefully they get 1 vs. Canada and beat Honduras in Minneapolis.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 27, 2022, 08:59:53 PM
I guess the saving grace is that no one else seems to playing all that well either. Mexico needed two late goals to beat 10 man Jamaica. Panama hasn’t created much against Costa Rica, although it’s only half. If that ends in a draw it’d be just as big as the US win.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 27, 2022, 09:15:12 PM
El Salvador isn’t good, but they have a weird grit so they play everyone close.  They’ve only lost by more than a goal once in the last 8 or so.  It’s 15 degrees in January on a frozen crappy pitch against a plucky opponent.  Take the 3 points and move on
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on January 28, 2022, 11:32:48 AM
We have no business fearing the competition so much we put these games in the freezing cold. Beyond the potential for injuries, we're risking sloppy games that become a toss-up.

The lack of confidence and touch in the final third is aggravating. I get enough of that as a Chelsea fan.

Pulisic looks like he doesn't trust any of his teammates and is trying to be the hero every time.

The gulf between us and most of CONCACAF is papering over a lot of ugly. Gregggg out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 28, 2022, 11:40:55 AM
We have no business fearing the competition so much we put these games in the freezing cold. Beyond the potential for injuries, we're risking sloppy games that become a toss-up.

The lack of confidence and touch in the final third is aggravating. I get enough of that as a Chelsea fan.

Pulisic looks like he doesn't trust any of his teammates and is trying to be the hero every time.

The gulf between us and most of CONCACAF is papering over a lot of ugly. Gregggg out.

I do think there is value to training and playing in the cold knowing your most important game will be playing in the cold in Edmonton.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on January 28, 2022, 02:11:50 PM
Disagree completely. The other 6 road games are warm weather, and while this may be the toughest test (I'd defer to Mexico away still), it's not the most important. The goal is first to qualify and second to prepare the team to compete in Qatar. Beating Canada is just a measuring stick, and mostly for them rather than us.

We can play in St. Paul in October and still get plenty of cold experience. Snow/frozen football is fun but silly at this level for this team.

(Also, game's in Hamilton.)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 28, 2022, 02:28:28 PM
Disagree completely. The other 6 road games are warm weather, and while this may be the toughest test (I'd defer to Mexico away still), it's not the most important. The goal is first to qualify and second to prepare the team to compete in Qatar. Beating Canada is just a measuring stick, and mostly for them rather than us.

We can play in St. Paul in October and still get plenty of cold experience. Snow/frozen football is fun but silly at this level for this team.

(Also, game's in Hamilton.)

Hamilton - My mistake.

It makes sense to play/train in the cold during this window as they know a cold road game awaits in Canada.

It makes sense to play Mexico in Columbus for home field advantage.

It does not make sense to play winter/cold/snow games at any other point.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 28, 2022, 02:32:30 PM
Why would it only make sense to maximize home field advantage against Mexico?  Shouldn’t we be attempting to do that every home game? Other countries are.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 28, 2022, 02:39:43 PM
Why would it only make sense to maximize home field advantage against Mexico?  Shouldn’t we be attempting to do that every home game? Other countries are.

There's a reason we play cash grab friendlies vs. Mexico in large football stadiums in cities like Dallas, Las Vegas, Phoenix etc. and qualifiers in Columbus and other soccer specific venues.

Columbus has always been a haven for big time US crowds while other cities which don't host many competitive games anymore attract larger crowds for the visitors.

I think the federation does a good job maximizing home field advantage for all home qualifiers.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 28, 2022, 02:46:38 PM
I saw a couple people complaining last night about playing qualifying games in places where they know there won't be many minorities, aka immigrant fans of the opposing country, which is just a preposterous complaint.  Its racist to want a homefield advantage?  Got it
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 28, 2022, 02:53:30 PM
There's a reason we play cash grab friendlies vs. Mexico in large football stadiums in cities like Dallas, Las Vegas, Phoenix etc. and qualifiers in Columbus and other soccer specific venues.

Columbus has always been a haven for big time US crowds and other cities which don't host many competitive games anymore attract larger crowds for the visitors.

I think the federation does a good job maximizing home field advantage for all home qualifiers.

You’re not making any sense. We haven’t played Mexico in Columbus since 2016, and have played them 6 times in the states since then, so your argument kinda doesn’t hold up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on January 28, 2022, 02:55:13 PM
Hamilton - My mistake.

It makes sense to play/train in the cold during this window as they know a cold road game awaits in Canada.

It makes sense to play Mexico in Columbus for home field advantage.

It does not make sense to play winter/cold/snow games at any other point.

Fair. Agree to disagree on this window--I'd prioritize the risk of injury with triple the time in the cold over preparation for Canada, but I see your side.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 28, 2022, 02:55:49 PM
I saw a couple people complaining last night about playing qualifying games in places where they know there won't be many minorities, aka immigrant fans of the opposing country, which is just a preposterous complaint.  Its racist to want a homefield advantage?  Got it

Honestly the biggest home field advantage that anyone in CONCACAF gets is the field conditions in some of the Central American countries. Location in the states really isn’t all that influential. We win last night whether the game was in Ohio or California, as long as it was on a proper field.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on January 28, 2022, 02:58:41 PM
You’re not making any sense. We haven’t played Mexico in Columbus since 2016, and have played them 6 times in the states since then, so your argument kinda doesn’t hold up.

The WCQs were in 2016 (Columbus) and 2021 (Cincinnati's new soccer stadium). His point stands.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on January 28, 2022, 03:00:28 PM
I saw a couple people complaining last night about playing qualifying games in places where they know there won't be many minorities, aka immigrant fans of the opposing country, which is just a preposterous complaint.  Its racist to want a homefield advantage?  Got it

My complaint isn't about racism, it's how pathetic it is we can't fill the stadium with supporters and/or win against El Salvador and Honduras no matter who's in the crowd.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 28, 2022, 03:05:05 PM
The WCQs were in 2016 (Columbus) and 2021 (Cincinnati's new soccer stadium). His point stands.

Not really. The idea that we only play “cash grabs friendlies” at football stadiums kinda ignores the non friendlies in Denver, Chicago, and Vegas that have all occurred since we last played Mexico in Columbus. The whole home field advantage because of the weather is way overblown.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 28, 2022, 03:08:52 PM
You’re not making any sense. We haven’t played Mexico in Columbus since 2016, and have played them 6 times in the states since then, so your argument kinda doesn’t hold up.

You only play one home qualifier per cycle vs an opponent so you are correct in that the US has not played a home qualifier vs. Mexico in Columbus since 2016. Not many opportunities….

We’ve played them multiple other times during that time span in Gold Cup venues and friendly venues which are meant to maximize profits for the federation and Concacaf. I admitted that in my initial post….

To your other point -

Columbus has hosted the most USA Mexico qualifiers and there’s history and mystique behind the venue.

What’s hard to understand ?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 28, 2022, 03:13:36 PM
There's a reason we play cash grab friendlies vs. Mexico in large football stadiums

Non friendly Gold Cup Final in Chicago
Non friendly Nations League Final in Denver
Non friendly Gold Cup Final in Vegas.

Three non friendly competitive games occurring in football stadiums since we’ve played in Columbus. You are factually incorrect.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 28, 2022, 03:21:00 PM
Non friendly Gold Cup Final in Chicago
Non friendly Nations League Final in Denver
Non friendly Gold Cup Final in Vegas.

Three non friendly competitive games occurring in football stadiums since we’ve played in Columbus. You are factually incorrect.

You're correct.

However I clearly wasn't talking about tournaments with pre determined sites.

I apologize that the topic of conversation on the ability of the federation to pick home sites for friendlies vs. qualifiers was lost on you.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 28, 2022, 03:21:53 PM
You're correct.

Apology accepted.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 28, 2022, 03:22:58 PM
Fair. Agree to disagree on this window--I'd prioritize the risk of injury with triple the time in the cold over preparation for Canada, but I see your side.

I agree especially from the injury standpoint. But I certainly understand why the USSF chose the venues for this window.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 28, 2022, 03:34:09 PM
Apology accepted.

Maybe use one ounce of critical thinking skills next time instead of arguing a completely separate point to try and prove yourself right.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 28, 2022, 03:40:37 PM
Don’t hate the player, hate the game. You were proven wrong, maybe actually own it for once rather than shifting goalposts.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 28, 2022, 03:53:36 PM
We were talking about friendlies and qualifiers in which the USSF can choose the venue ahead of time.

You then inserted yourself into the conversation and began to discuss tournaments where the home team doesn’t pick where they play.

You switched the conversation buddy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 28, 2022, 03:54:54 PM
Going back to doubling down after saying this:

You're correct.

That’s a bold strategy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 28, 2022, 04:06:14 PM
You continue to miss my point (as well as the others within the discussion).

I first said we generally play friendlies against Mexico in cash grab cities and WCQ’s against Mexico in Columbus or other cities with a similar home field advantage.

You made an argumentative point about us not playing a competitive game against Mexico in Columbus since 2016. No duh….
Congratulations on whatever you think your point is.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 30, 2022, 04:06:36 PM
GREGG OUT.

Full marks to Canada, they played their azz off, but once again the team looked lifeless and lacking answers and his sub decisions stunk
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 30, 2022, 04:08:39 PM
GREGG OUT.

Full marks to Canada, they played their azz off, but once again the team looked lifeless and lacking answers and his sub decisions stunk

And now they are playing a qualifier in near zero weather in January in St Paul. Ridiculous.

Gregg is a symptom of a much larger problem.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 30, 2022, 04:15:36 PM
And now they are playing a qualifier in near zero weather in January in St Paul. Ridiculous.

Gregg is a symptom of a much larger problem.

US Soccer is joke.  This is well known.

That being said, Jesse Marsch to the red courtesy phone, Jesse Marsch to the phone
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 30, 2022, 04:22:40 PM
Zardes………
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 30, 2022, 05:07:15 PM
Whether you like it or not, Gregg will be here through the WC. That’s just a fact.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on January 30, 2022, 06:18:22 PM
That was...ugh. Reminded me of the reverse of Bob Bradley's win over Spain. The lesser team got the unexpected goal and proceeded to bunker for the rest of the match. US dominated possessions and scoring chances, but couldn't connect the final passes or have someone in position when the cross came in. Not enough ideas in the final third. What's worse is this cost us any slim hope of the seeded pot and, if we don't win against Honduras, could put us in a brutal final stretch where we need points against the teams we're competing with.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on February 02, 2022, 04:43:01 PM
Are you ready for some frosty futbol?

St. Paul in February. Brilliant.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUBurrow on February 02, 2022, 06:34:30 PM
Are you ready for some frosty futbol?

St. Paul in February. Brilliant.

I’m seeing that Pulisic isn’t starting - is that related to the cold and/or an injury?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on February 02, 2022, 07:30:05 PM
Grateful for the 2-0 start. Love another early in the second so I have plenty of time to get downtown.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 02, 2022, 08:58:43 PM
Multiple Honduran players treated for hypothermia. What a joke playing there in February. No mention on FS1. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on February 02, 2022, 09:16:45 PM
Multiple Honduran players treated for hypothermia. What a joke playing there in February. No mention on FS1.

If the temps were warmer, multiple US players would have been treated for hacked  lower limbs, so I’ll save my sadness
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 03, 2022, 08:52:18 AM
Are you ready for some frosty futbol?

St. Paul in February. Brilliant.

I realized why the MU game wasn't starting until 10:00 because this was on.

I mean, a soccer stadium in February wasn't available in Arizona or Southern California or Texas or Florida?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on February 03, 2022, 08:57:11 AM
Yep, it was effen stoopid, and I haven't heard an argument yet that logically suggests otherwise.

Frostbite is real, and that and other conditions that can happen due to exposure to extreme cold can be very serious. Here's hoping that none of the athletes suffered anything lasting and that all of the fans came through it OK.

It's an accepted "risk" in football, and I wish it weren't, but this was just so stoopid because it was 100% avoidable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 03, 2022, 09:20:48 AM
I realized why the MU game wasn't starting until 10:00 because this was on.

I mean, a soccer stadium in February wasn't available in Arizona or Southern California or Texas or Florida?

None of the listed locations provide home field advantage
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 03, 2022, 11:36:18 AM
None of the listed locations provide home field advantage


Then why are we playing a more more significant game against Panama in Orlando?

But if that is true, it is pretty embarrassing.  I'm all on board with playing Mexico at some dinky northern stadium.  But if we are so concerned about getting a good home crowd in a place like Austin against Honduras, that's pretty pathetic.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 03, 2022, 12:13:55 PM

Then why are we playing a more more significant game against Panama in Orlando?

But if that is true, it is pretty embarrassing.  I'm all on board with playing Mexico at some dinky northern stadium.  But if we are so concerned about getting a good home crowd in a place like Austin against Honduras, that's pretty pathetic.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on February 03, 2022, 12:24:45 PM
I guess the fact that the USMNT isn't playing Panama in International Falls is progress?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on February 03, 2022, 03:24:50 PM
As far as qualification, the good news is as long as USA beats Panama, they qualify automatically. After the Canada loss, we are pretty much guaranteed not to get to Pot 1 for the draw, so anything beyond the Panama win is gravy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 03, 2022, 03:29:47 PM
As far as qualification, the good news is as long as USA beats Panama, they qualify automatically.


Costa Rica can sweep their three opponents (Canada and US at home, El Salvador on the road) and bypass the US if we only get the Panama win.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on February 03, 2022, 04:25:04 PM
Beat Panama, and you're guaranteed no worse than the 4th place playoff against Oceania.

Draw Mexico and beat Panama, and worst-case scenario becomes tying Costa Rica for 3rd if CR wins all 3. We currently have a goal differential of +9 to their +1, so there would need to be some major blowouts to lose that tiebreaker.

Beat Panama and draw CR and you're in, but hate the idea of heading to CR needing a point on the last day.

Bottom line, 4 points gets it done if 3 are against Panama.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on February 03, 2022, 04:53:12 PM
Yep, it was effen stoopid, and I haven't heard an argument yet that logically suggests otherwise.

Frostbite is real, and that and other conditions that can happen due to exposure to extreme cold can be very serious. Here's hoping that none of the athletes suffered anything lasting and that all of the fans came through it OK.

It's an accepted "risk" in football, and I wish it weren't, but this was just so stoopid because it was 100% avoidable.

Portland was considered but vetoed due to having turf.  However, San Jose was available and they have grass.  Seattle was also available and they've had grass brought into Lumen for national team games in the past.

Two Honduran players were treated for hypothermia after the game. The starting keeper for Honduras had to come out of the game at the half because of it. I haven't read a single soccer reporter who has not roasted the choice of St. Paul. Berhalter is trying to defend it saying it made sense to the travel (Columbus, Hamilton, St. Paul). Pretty weak. They could have done Nashville or Cincy.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/2-honduran-soccer-players-treated-for-hypothermia-after-us-hosts-key-game-in-frigid-minnesota
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on February 03, 2022, 07:17:01 PM
You guys know that the World Cup is in the middle of the freaking desert right? It’s pretty clear that no governing body has the well-being of the players in mind as long as they can cash a check. Why people continue to be surprised by this amazes me.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 03, 2022, 07:22:35 PM
You guys know that the World Cup is in the middle of the freaking desert right? It’s pretty clear that no governing body has the well-being of the players in mind as long as they can cash a check. Why people continue to be surprised by this amazes me.

They are playing in November and December which is actually just fine weather wise.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on February 03, 2022, 07:27:09 PM
They are playing in November and December which is actually just fine weather wise.

The dates were moved prior to Covid. The only reason the dates were switched was because the players contested the location . The fact that Qatar was even considered for a WC should tell you all you need to know about the governing bodies and their incentive$$$.

Edit: also go ahead and look at who’s pushing the biannual WC and who’s pushing back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 03, 2022, 07:30:29 PM
Yes I know when the dates were moved - in 2015.  There are many reasons why Qatar is a problem.  "Playing in a desert" isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on February 03, 2022, 07:32:01 PM
Desert technically means “dry” not “hot”, so, fair it was a poor choice of word.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on February 03, 2022, 09:38:25 PM
Portland was considered but vetoed due to having turf.  However, San Jose was available and they have grass.  Seattle was also available and they've had grass brought into Lumen for national team games in the past.

Two Honduran players were treated for hypothermia after the game. The starting keeper for Honduras had to come out of the game at the half because of it. I haven't read a single soccer reporter who has not roasted the choice of St. Paul. Berhalter is trying to defend it saying it made sense to the travel (Columbus, Hamilton, St. Paul). Pretty weak. They could have done Nashville or Cincy.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/2-honduran-soccer-players-treated-for-hypothermia-after-us-hosts-key-game-in-frigid-minnesota

This idiotic decision and callous disregard for their opponents' well-being makes me want to root against the USMNT.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on February 03, 2022, 10:05:10 PM
This idiotic decision and callous disregard for their opponents' well-being makes me want to root against the USMNT.

It was a stupid decision.

Canada played Mexico in Edmonton and hosted the US in Hamilton with domed stadiums available.

Teams seek similar advantages all the time during qualifying. It’s dumb, but the US is hardly alone.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on February 03, 2022, 10:13:31 PM
It was a stupid decision.

Canada played Mexico in Edmonton and hosted the US in Hamilton with domed stadiums available.

Teams seem similar advantages all the time during qualifying. It’s dumb, but the US is hardly alone.

Mexico

"The other ones did it too" doesn't make me like it any more.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on February 04, 2022, 12:12:44 AM
"The other ones did it too" doesn't make me like it any more.

You don’t have to like it, but it’s stupid gamesmanship that federations all over the world do regularly. Big and small. The same national teams cultivating pity for being forced to play in the frigid cold (which is stupid, nobody is arguing that) are also the ones that let their fans pelt the USMNT with bottles and garbage when they play there and keep their pitches in horrible shape cause it disadvantages teams that aren’t used to playing on it.

Phrasing it like you did made it seem like the US was some exceptionally bad actor in this space worthy of rooting against as a result.  If this made you feel like rooting against the USMNT, I’d wager you weren’t much a fan of them or international soccer to begin with.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 04, 2022, 06:00:06 AM
This idiotic decision and callous disregard for their opponents' well-being makes me want to root against the USMNT.


It was a dumb decision. But your statement is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on February 04, 2022, 10:34:18 AM
Not to further detract from some cold weather debates, but this Mason Greenwood story is awful.  Not exactly a banner year for Manchester footballers staying on the right side of the law.  Between Mendy and Greenwood, Mancunians wishing for the days that the worst news just being some good old fashioned drink driving charges or a bar scuffle
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on February 04, 2022, 11:38:11 PM
it’s stupid

Agreed.

I’d wager you weren’t much a fan of them or international soccer to begin with.

You'd win that bet.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on February 09, 2022, 10:58:02 AM
I’m no Muggsy when it comes to this stuff, but Kurt Zouma should not have played yesterday. West Ham are now losing sponsorships over this. Really poor management of the situation.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 09, 2022, 11:01:27 AM
I’m no Muggsy when it comes to this stuff, but Kurt Zouma should not have played yesterday. West Ham are now losing sponsorships over this. Really poor management of the situation.

Met police aren't charging him, but he faces charges in France?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 09, 2022, 11:03:50 AM
Met police aren't charging him, but he faces charges in France?


Yeah French laws allow for citizens to be charged for offenses they commit abroad.  He could get up to four years in prison?  For kicking a cat?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on February 09, 2022, 02:48:27 PM
It was a stupid decision.

Canada played Mexico in Edmonton and hosted the US in Hamilton with domed stadiums available.

Teams seek similar advantages all the time during qualifying. It’s dumb, but the US is hardly alone.

But that makes sense for Canada. They are a less skilled team than Mexico or the US, so the cold gives them the advantage. For the US, they are more skilled than Honduras, so that level of cold is more likely to hinder than help you. They could've just as easily played in Portland or Columbus that would be significantly colder than Honduran players were prepared for while not being the bitter cold prevalent to Minneapolis that time of year that works against skilled teams.

Ultimately, they got the results, but it was a poor choice not just from a safety perspective but from a strategic one as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on February 22, 2022, 07:49:27 AM
American women players settle suit vs US Soccer for $24M

https://apnews.com/article/us-women-soccer-settlement-ba2c4217bf58c917ebb6fd8ca9a5bcd4

U.S. women soccer players reached a landmark agreement with the sport’s American governing body to end a six-year legal battle over equal pay, a deal in which they are promised $24 million plus bonuses that match those of the men.

The U.S. Soccer Federation and the women announced a deal Tuesday that will have players split $22 million, about one-third of what they had sought in damages. The USSF also agreed to establish a fund with $2 million to benefit the players in their post-soccer careers and charitable efforts aimed at growing the sport for women.

The USSF committed to providing an equal rate of pay for the women’s and men’s national teams — including World Cup bonuses — subject to collective bargaining agreements with the unions that separately represent the women and men.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Billy Hoyle on February 24, 2022, 01:39:38 PM
I've been seeing some calls for FIFA and the EPL to strip Russian oligarchs of their ownership of teams. How the hell would that happen?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on February 26, 2022, 12:53:15 PM
Roman Abramovjch giving up control of Chelsea (temporarily, I would guess).

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on February 28, 2022, 09:03:59 AM
 Simon Evans @sgevans

Breaking - FIFA set to suspend Russian teams from international football until further notice. Confirmation of decision expected later today.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 28, 2022, 12:18:32 PM
Simon Evans @sgevans

Breaking - FIFA set to suspend Russian teams from international football until further notice. Confirmation of decision expected later today.

Should have done that the first time. Cowards
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on March 03, 2022, 08:39:08 AM
Tragic ...

Stanford women's soccer player Katie Meyer dies at 22; cause of death not provided

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33406850/stanford-women-soccer-player-katie-meyer-dies-22-cause-death-unknown
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on March 04, 2022, 11:18:31 AM
A keeper from one of our girls teams is being recruited by Stanford. She took a recent visit l, and, she spent a lot of time with Katie on and off of the field. She had a great experience with her.

Very sad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on March 04, 2022, 11:46:31 AM
Katie Meyer killed herself. Beyond sad. What a horrible time for her family.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2022/03/04/katie-meyer-parents-interview-stanford-soccer-star-death-suicide/9374744002/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 04, 2022, 03:01:05 PM
On a more upbeat note, Jesse Marsch landed on his feet quickly as the new manager at Leeds United earlier in the week. Becomes the first American to coach at an actual English EPL club (no offense Bob). Lower expectations but a great club with history and a great fan base. Let’s hope he can make some noise
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 04, 2022, 04:23:27 PM
On a more upbeat note, Jesse Marsch landed on his feet quickly as the new manager at Leeds United earlier in the week. Becomes the first American to coach at an actual English EPL club (no offense Bob). Lower expectations but a great club with history and a great fan base. Let’s hope he can make some noise

No US coach will ever get a fair shot in EPL
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 04, 2022, 10:48:08 PM
No US coach will ever get a fair shot in EPL

 ::) ::) ::)

What an unnecessarily pessimistic and silly sentiment.  People said the same thing about American outfield players at non-Fulham EPL clubs 7-8 years ago too.  Marsch is an accomplished coach with European success already.  If he keeps them up and the off-season isn’t a disaster he’ll get plenty of leash to work next year.

And even if he doesn’t last all that long…the EPL has 8 managers out of 20 who have a tenure over 2 years.  It’s not exactly a haven of job security.  Plenty of managers from all nationalities and experience levels have gotten an unfair shot. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 04, 2022, 11:45:03 PM
::) ::) ::)

What an unnecessarily pessimistic and silly sentiment.  People said the same thing about American outfield players at non-Fulham EPL clubs 7-8 years ago too.  Marsch is an accomplished coach with European success already.  If he keeps them up and the off-season isn’t a disaster he’ll get plenty of leash to work next year.

And even if he doesn’t last all that long…the EPL has 8 managers out of 20 who have a tenure over 2 years.  It’s not exactly a haven of job security.  Plenty of managers from all nationalities and experience levels have gotten an unfair shot.

Nah. Look what happened to Bradley

Though I acknowledge your point about coaching in the EPL overall
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 04, 2022, 11:51:54 PM
Nah. Look what happened to Bradley

Though I acknowledge your point about coaching in the EPL overall

Bradley was hired from a Ligue 2 club, the hire was widely panned and thought to be American nepotism from the start, based on Swansea’s new American owners.  And the fan ownership trust of Swansea was very unhappy with the hire.  Then Bradley only won 2 out of 11 and gave up 30 goals.  He was objectively awful, even for a short stretch.

Marsch has already had 2 positions more prestigious than Bradley ever had and more success in Europe. His situation and Bradley’s have nothing in common other than both being American.

That’s like saying cause Jozy Altidore struggled at Hull no American forwards will ever succeed in England
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on March 05, 2022, 06:35:12 AM
Nah. Look what happened to Bradley

Though I acknowledge your point about coaching in the EPL overall

Marsch will be given a legitimate oppurtotunity. Relegation battle man management is always different than coming in fresh in pre season. Should be a really tough spot, but he should be given this half season and next year to prove his worth.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 05, 2022, 06:57:20 AM
Bradley was hired from a Ligue 2 club, the hire was widely panned and thought to be American nepotism from the start, based on Swansea’s new American owners.  And the fan ownership trust of Swansea was very unhappy with the hire.  Then Bradley only won 2 out of 11 and gave up 30 goals.  He was objectively awful, even for a short stretch.

Marsch has already had 2 positions more prestigious than Bradley ever had and more success in Europe. His situation and Bradley’s have nothing in common other than both being American.

That’s like saying cause Jozy Altidore struggled at Hull no American forwards will ever succeed in England

Let's hope he does well
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on March 05, 2022, 11:46:08 AM
Fulham going back up barring a complete disaster. Hopefully Silva fares better than Parker did. They are far more enjoyable and dominant this season than the last Championship campaign, but they are also far more talented than the other clubs in the second tier.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 05, 2022, 08:17:35 PM
Crazy riot in ligaMX, queretaro fans attack atlas fans in the stands.  Reports of fatalities.   Just nuts
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 05, 2022, 09:11:04 PM
Crazy riot in ligaMX, queretaro fans attack atlas fans in the stands.  Reports of fatalities.   Just nuts

I don’t advise watching the videos circulating if you’re easily bothered. It’s absolutely horrific. Atlas fans unconscious on the ground as Queretaro fans walk by and kick and punch them or strip them naked before assaulting further.  A number of confirmed fatalities already.  Q fans attacking anyone with an Atlas jersey on, including women and kids.

I saw a video of a stadium worker pulling an unconscious guy to the side/safety, she gets pushed out of the way so random guys can drag the body back into the concourse for more violence…and I decided that was enough.  Absolutely no reason the club shouldn’t be booted from LigaMX
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 05, 2022, 09:31:28 PM
I don’t advise watching the videos circulating if you’re easily bothered. It’s absolutely horrific. Atlas fans unconscious on the ground as Queretaro fans walk by and kick and punch them or strip them naked before assaulting further.  A number of confirmed fatalities already.  Q fans attacking anyone with an Atlas jersey on, including women and kids.

I saw a video of a stadium worker pulling an unconscious guy to the side/safety, she gets pushed out of the way so random guys can drag the body back into the concourse for more violence…and I decided that was enough.  Absolutely no reason the club shouldn’t be booted from LigaMX



Queretora didn't have security present.  Atlas is a big rival.  That's like no security at a raiders/49ers game.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 09, 2022, 05:48:33 PM
PSG gonna PSG. The most mentally weak team I've ever seen in any sport.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 09, 2022, 06:04:58 PM
PSG gonna PSG. The most mentally weak team I've ever seen in any sport.

What’s remarkable is it’s continued manager to manager.  It was a problem under Blanc, then Emery, then Tuchel, and now still under Poch.  I guess that’s what happens when you pound on a mediocre league most of the year
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 09, 2022, 06:52:31 PM
Sucks, PSG will fire Poch, he'll go to ManU, and won't be available to come home when Conte burns out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 10, 2022, 06:14:36 AM
Chelsea and abromovich have had their assets frozen by the UK govt.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1501847597140660226 (https://mobile.twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1501847597140660226)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 10, 2022, 07:16:47 AM
Chelsea and abromovich have had their assets frozen by the UK govt.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1501847597140660226 (https://mobile.twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1501847597140660226)

This situation is gonna get dicey
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 10, 2022, 09:38:44 AM
PSG gonna PSG. The most mentally weak team I've ever seen in any sport.

I disagree with this. The game was a pretty straightforward example of a colossal mistake by one player and a manager who didn't manage.

For three halves and 15 minutes, Madrid looked impotent. When Ancelotti brought on Rodrygo/Camavinga, Pochettino did nothing when that was the time to pull Paredes for Gueye and step on their throat with 10 behind the ball.

A few minutes later the arrogance of Donnaruma allows a lifeline. This is the colossal mistake. And Pochettino responds by........doing nothing. Anyone with a pulse recognized the shakiness to come. Hell, even Wijnaldum would have been a decent choice. Double swap at the moment with Paredes/Danilo off?

But it's a further ten minutes until Pochettino does the eventual Paredes/Gueye swap and at that point it felt, again, only a matter of time for a second Madrid goal so the move meant nothing.

A deflected second goal. A gift for the third. Pochettino's choice to bring on DiMaria? Awful. DiMaria still has a tank but anyone who has watched PSG more than twice knows the front four can't work together. And yet, because Pochettino is bankrupt of ideas, he makes a prayer move.

Draxler? Woof. crap, if you're throwing it at the wind put on Simons for five minutes. At the least that kid will run after crap whereas Draxler can't even racewalk.

The PSG collapse narrative is easy. But also lazy. This was down to a manager in way over his head and a guy who's only been there for seven months making a boneheaded play.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 10, 2022, 10:46:10 AM
Messi missing a pen in the first leg, no one stepping up and taking a yellow to stop Modric in the build up to the second goal, having 7 players in the box but no one marking Benzema for the second goal, Marquinhos inexplicably clearing the ball low and across the middle when he could have just booted it for a throw or even a corner for the third. Poch certainly didn’t cover himself in glory either, but PSG is a mentally weak team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 10, 2022, 09:26:34 PM
Messi missing a pen in the first leg, no one stepping up and taking a yellow to stop Modric in the build up to the second goal, having 7 players in the box but no one marking Benzema for the second goal, Marquinhos inexplicably clearing the ball low and across the middle when he could have just booted it for a throw or even a corner for the third. Poch certainly didn’t cover himself in glory either, but PSG is a mentally weak team.

If these four things are what you truly consider "mentally weak" then every team in the entire world qualifies for the description. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 10, 2022, 10:29:05 PM
Ability to perform away from home and grind out result, even if you're not playing your best, in a hostile arena is a sign of a mentally strong team.  Being up 1-nil on the night, 2-nil on aggregate with a half hour to go, and throw it away is mentally weak. 

"One game sample size, blame it all on Poch".  Okay lets look at their other Champions League games away from Paris.

November 24th, Manchester. Up 1-nil with a half hour to play with a chance to either win the group outright or put yourself in a very good position to on the final matchday (I'd have to go back and re-check the math).  Find a way to lose 2-1, mentally weak. 

"Well Man City is a world class team, with a world class manager, of course they're going to find a way".  Completely agree, lets keep digging.

November 3rd, Leipzig. Up 2-1 with 5 minutes to play against a now sacked Jesse Marsch led team, despite Leipzig missing a pen. Find a way to steal a draw from the jaws of victory with a 93 minute equalizer, and the game ends 2-2, mentally weak.

"Well, despite having a now sacked manager, that team has some quality to it."  Sure, I guess, lets look at another.

September 15th, Brugge.  Find a way to draw against Club Brugge, mentally weak.

"Well, all the games you're looking at are from this season, it's all on Poch."  Sure I could buy that, I didn't watch every game live, but he certainly was bad against Real.  Lets look into their history a bit.

The only time that they have advanced past the quarterfinals since the takeover was when games were either being played with no fans, or limited capacity, due to Covid (i.e. '19-'21).  Doesn't exactly reinforce the "hostile environment" narrative. That run just happens to include the now infamous tie against Barca in 16-17 when they won 4-0 in Paris, only to exit in spectacular fashion losing 6-1 at the Nou Camp, with a 95th minute goal, mentally weak.

PSG have a history of being mentally weak in the Champions League, and no matter how much of yesterday's match should fall on Poch, that narrative got a significant boost.  They are a mentally weak team no matter how much you may not see it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUDPT on March 16, 2022, 10:12:32 AM
The Ricketts and Ken Griffin, favored to buy Chelsea. The rest of the EPL fans should be screaming in delight.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 16, 2022, 12:29:34 PM
The Ricketts and Ken Griffin, favored to buy Chelsea. The rest of the EPL fans should be screaming in delight.

Idk, they feel like FSG taking over Liverpool, which paid huge dividends. Put smart people in charge and invest heavily.  Love him or hate him, Griffin isn’t going to make an investment without seeing an edge.

I personally want Nick Candy’s bid to get it, cause his ostentatious oligarch catering real estate development seems to fit perfectly with Chelsea
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 18, 2022, 04:23:55 PM
German fans deciding they can’t let Mexican fans have all the terrible fan spotlight as the Gladbach/Bochum game gets abandoned with 20 minutes left cause some douche pelted the assistant ref in the head with a beer mug
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 18, 2022, 05:23:51 PM
German fans deciding they can’t let Mexican fans have all the terrible fan spotlight as the Gladbach/Bochum game gets abandoned with 20 minutes left cause some douche pelted the assistant ref in the head with a beer mug

Glad to see the officials abandon the match.  And the players telling off the fans.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 23, 2022, 08:58:13 AM
It's wild to me that USA/Mexico is the same time as Sweet 16 games. The number of times they have had qualifiers on nights when Marquette was opening their season or other NCAA overlap just drives me nuts. Maybe it's because those two sports are my biggest passions so that's when it most stands out, but knowing the next two crucial qualifiers will take place at the same times as the S16 and last E8 spot are going on is just plain annoying.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on March 23, 2022, 09:26:08 AM
It's wild to me that USA/Mexico is the same time as Sweet 16 games. The number of times they have had qualifiers on nights when Marquette was opening their season or other NCAA overlap just drives me nuts. Maybe it's because those two sports are my biggest passions so that's when it most stands out, but knowing the next two crucial qualifiers will take place at the same times as the S16 and last E8 spot are going on is just plain annoying.

It stinks, but it's a FIFA international break. They're probably not consulting the NCAA on their schedule.

Trust me I was wondering why they just couldn't play Honduras or Jamaica this window lol
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 23, 2022, 09:39:03 AM
It stinks, but it's a FIFA international break. They're probably not consulting the NCAA on their schedule.

Trust me I was wondering why they just couldn't play Honduras or Jamaica this window lol

Yeah, I know it's the windows, but it always seems to be when there are key college games I want to watch. I mean, CONCACAF could have played games today, then arranged the USA game Saturday at noon before the NCAA Elite 8 tips off, then had no conflict next week. Just seems like there will be some fan overlap between college basketball and soccer and your best shot at the best ratings will be getting fans to be able to watch both.

Probably just a pet peeve I'll have to forever deal with.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on March 23, 2022, 10:17:48 AM
Yeah, I know it's the windows, but it always seems to be when there are key college games I want to watch. I mean, CONCACAF could have played games today, then arranged the USA game Saturday at noon before the NCAA Elite 8 tips off, then had no conflict next week. Just seems like there will be some fan overlap between college basketball and soccer and your best shot at the best ratings will be getting fans to be able to watch both.

Probably just a pet peeve I'll have to forever deal with.

At least Gonzaga Arkansas is the early game !
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 23, 2022, 05:31:04 PM
Unsafe to force players to compete in conditions with air quality as bad as it is at Azteca.  Surely Mexico will move the game to a location that isn't as dangerous for the players.

Or, they'll actually be able to use their home field advantage without people complaining.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 24, 2022, 04:49:01 PM
Italy with a choke not seen since...2018.  Losing at home to North flipping Macedonia on a belter in ET from a dude who plays club football in Saudia Arabia.  Meanwhile, Italy in their last 5 WC qualifying matches, against teams not named Lithuania, have scored 2 goals TOTAL.  Including a goal-less performance against Northern Ireland, a single goal scored in a draw against Bulgaria, and now this blanking.

Remarkable that they somehow won Euro 2020 and now will likely miss their second straight WC after not missing a tourney of any sort since the mid 50s
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on March 24, 2022, 05:35:46 PM
Italy with a choke not seen since...2018.  Losing at home to North flipping Macedonia on a belter in ET from a dude who plays club football in Saudia Arabia.  Meanwhile, Italy in their last 5 WC qualifying matches, against teams not named Lithuania, have scored 2 goals TOTAL.  Including a goal-less performance against Northern Ireland, a single goal scored in a draw against Bulgaria, and now this blanking.

Remarkable that they somehow won Euro 2020 and now will likely miss their second straight WC after not missing a tourney of any sort since the mid 50s

Likely? Is there a path for them in? I thought this eliminated them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 24, 2022, 05:58:27 PM
Likely? Is there a path for them in? I thought this eliminated them.

They are done.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 24, 2022, 06:51:55 PM
Likely? Is there a path for them in? I thought this eliminated them.

When I was typing it wasn’t technically official yet.  But yea they are sitting at home with their asterisk’d Euros trophy
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 24, 2022, 08:08:13 PM
Stupid gregg
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 24, 2022, 09:44:11 PM
Stupid gregg

Ya. Play the first team. Real smart
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 24, 2022, 11:02:23 PM
Honduras draw, US draw. All you can realistically ask for today.

I guess the Costa Rica win technically hurts, but it really shouldn’t matter.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 25, 2022, 07:33:03 AM
I can't believe what an utter trash app Paramount+ is. I have premium subscription and can't record the game, can't watch the replay, can't watch highlights, can't even watch shows like Evil or Halo. Their support is terrible to navigate. First USA/Mexico I've missed in probably 20 years. Pure garbage.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 25, 2022, 09:34:17 AM
I can't believe what an utter trash app Paramount+ is. I have premium subscription and can't record the game, can't watch the replay, can't watch highlights, can't even watch shows like Evil or Halo. Their support is terrible to navigate. First USA/Mexico I've missed in probably 20 years. Pure garbage.

Maybe not a bad thing unless you enjoy seeing the US miss multiple golden chances from mere feet in front of the goal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 25, 2022, 10:06:56 AM
Missed opportunity.  Pulsic and Pefok failed to finish after great service.  Now the US has to sweat to qualify.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on March 25, 2022, 10:35:14 AM
Missed opportunity.  Pulsic and Pefok failed to finish after great service.  Now the US has to sweat to qualify.

Meh. We're in better shape than we were yesterday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on March 25, 2022, 10:44:17 AM
Missed opportunity.  Pulsic and Pefok failed to finish after great service.  Now the US has to sweat to qualify.

It was a missed opportunity, thought they played pretty well and the plan was solid.

In terms of a sweat, well, win Sunday and they're in great shape.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 25, 2022, 10:50:18 AM
If you can’t beat Panama at home you don’t deserve to qualify, same way if you can’t beat North Macedonia at home you don’t deserve to qualify. This is a Panama team that just drew Honduras at home.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 25, 2022, 11:11:51 AM
3 injuries. 1 covid. 2 yellow suspensions (thanks Gregg)

This has big let down potential
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on March 25, 2022, 11:18:24 AM
3 injuries. 1 covid. 2 yellow suspensions (thanks Gregg)

This has big let down potential

I'm not going to blame Gregg for going for the win when they had a good plan and almost got it. They played well and it's not his fault they missed a few tap ins. A point is a good result.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 25, 2022, 11:23:03 AM
If you have "letdown potential" when you can basically wrap up a WC birth at home, you probably don't deserve to go anyway. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on March 25, 2022, 12:16:56 PM
3 injuries. 1 covid. 2 yellow suspensions (thanks Gregg)

This has big let down potential

Don't get the hatred for the lineup. Thought it was good, thought the sub decisions were good. And I'm very anti-Greggg in general.

Holding guys back in Mexico to try to get ready for Panama is silly. Play to win. Don't get cute with it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 25, 2022, 02:43:02 PM
If you have "letdown potential" when you can basically wrap up a WC birth at home, you probably don't deserve to go anyway.

Yeah I really don't like Gregggg, but at the end of the day you still need results, especially against inferior squads.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 27, 2022, 06:51:42 PM
Can't believe anyone was worried about this game
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 27, 2022, 07:13:48 PM
REALLLY appreciate not having to sweat this match for even a second
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 27, 2022, 08:09:24 PM
The USMNT really came through.  It would take the biggest blunder in WCQ history to not qualify now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 27, 2022, 08:24:09 PM
The USMNT really came through.  It would take the biggest blunder in WCQ history to not qualify now.

So you're saying there's a chance?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUBBau on March 27, 2022, 09:03:25 PM
A 5 goal lead going into the final game is nice
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on March 27, 2022, 09:04:52 PM
The USMNT really came through.  It would take the biggest blunder in WCQ history to not qualify now.

Lol like what ? A mathematical error?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 27, 2022, 09:26:52 PM
Lol like what ? A mathematical error?

Someone feel free to check my math, but we cannot be eliminated on Wednesday, and they only way we go to the inter-continental playoff rather than getting one of the automatic qualification spots is if we lose by 6 or more.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 27, 2022, 10:09:24 PM
Someone feel free to check my math, but we cannot be eliminated on Wednesday, and they only way we go to the inter-continental playoff rather than getting one of the automatic qualification spots is if we lose by 6 or more.

Correct.  Losing by 6 goals and then losing the intercontinental playoff would be what I referred to in my other post as "the biggest blunder in WCQ history."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on March 28, 2022, 06:44:23 AM
Our goal difference w Costa Rica is 10. We have qualified. There are zero concerns.

Most probable “outsiders” outcome is Costa Rica jumping Mexico on the final day.

Edit - 6 or more is correct :-/ my bad
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 29, 2022, 09:57:20 AM
The USMNT really came through.  It would take the biggest blunder in WCQ history to not qualify now.

In 2018, I remember saying "I can see Russia from my couch" after we drilled Panama 4-0 to basically lock in qualification. The only way we could possibly get left out was if Honduras beat Mexico, Panama beat Costa Rica, and we lost at Trinidad and Tobago.

Well, Mexico opened the scoring and went on to lose, Costa Rica opened the scoring and went on to lose, and we obviously lost at T&T when even a single point would've guaranteed direct qualification to Russia. In addition, the last qualifier we played at Costa Rica was a humbling 4-0 loss. The hypothetical 6-0 loss might be the biggest blunder in WCQ history, but it's not that far a cry of the events that took place in the last qualification cycle.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 29, 2022, 10:18:38 AM
The biggest difference though is that we can’t be eliminated tomorrow, we would not only have to get destroyed by Costa Rica but then also lose to (likely) New Zealand, currently ranked 111 by FIFA, ten spots lower than where T&T is right now, who didn’t even qualify for the CONCACAF “octagonal”(FIFA rankings can be taken fwiw).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 29, 2022, 10:26:45 AM
The biggest difference though is that we can’t be eliminated tomorrow, we would not only have to get destroyed by Costa Rica but then also lose to (likely) New Zealand, currently ranked 111 by FIFA, ten spots lower than where T&T is right now, who didn’t even qualify for the CONCACAF “octagonal”(FIFA rankings can be taken fwiw).

Yeah, I definitely feel better after what we did to Panama this time than I did before the match, but I'm not going to rest easy until they blow that final whistle tomorrow and we're in. 2018 was seriously traumatic for me watching all those results. We went behind, but so did everyone else. Then Pulisic gave us a chance, then Honduras and Panama went ahead...the definition of "we're through" changed rapidly.

Though if you really want something to cheer for...

It's not likely, but no more unlikely than what went against us in 2018.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 29, 2022, 10:37:20 AM
Yeah, I definitely feel better after what we did to Panama this time than I did before the match, but I'm not going to rest easy until they blow that final whistle tomorrow and we're in. 2018 was seriously traumatic for me watching all those results. We went behind, but so did everyone else. Then Pulisic gave us a chance, then Honduras and Panama went ahead...the definition of "we're through" changed rapidly.

Though if you really want something to cheer for...

  • If Portugal loses today, and...
  • If Holland fails to win today, and...
  • Mexico loses tomorrow, and...
  • USA wins at Costa Rica, then...
  • USA would move up to 9th in the FIFA rankings and be the final Pot 1 team in the World Cup.
It's not likely, but no more unlikely than what went against us in 2018.

Totally understand the mindset of “we’re not in until we’re in”, and am glad that the players seem to have a similar one. Postgame Sunday everyone was talking about Costa Rica, not Qatar.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on March 29, 2022, 11:56:34 AM
The biggest difference between 2018 and 2022, is how much the USMNT controls things.

Forget about outside help for a second.  Needing a draw on the road compared to a 5-0 loss is huge.  There's a reason "getting CONCACAFed" is part of US soccer vernacular.  And that's exactly what happened in 2018.
 
In 2022, there is no need to worry about a 1 goal loss, or even a draw.  All the USMNT has to do is park the bus, kill 90 minutes, and not concede 6 goals.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on March 29, 2022, 12:02:54 PM
City and Bayern playing a friendly at Lambeau in July.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 29, 2022, 12:36:25 PM
The biggest difference between 2018 and 2022, is how much the USMNT controls things.

Forget about outside help for a second.  Needing a draw on the road compared to a 5-0 loss is huge.  There's a reason "getting CONCACAFed" is part of US soccer vernacular.  And that's exactly what happened in 2018.
 
In 2022, there is no need to worry about a 1 goal loss, or even a draw.  All the USMNT has to do is park the bus, kill 90 minutes, and not concede 6 goals.

Id frankly be kind of embarrassed if the US parked the bus.  Costa Rica hasn't scored 2 goals in a match in 3 years.  This isn't Brazil or Germany who can ignite and fire them in.  Its an inferior squad who the US has handled well the last few meetings.  Play your normal match, maybe don't be ultra attacking, and you'll comfortably get the result you want.  This is a pretty good USMNT, not North Macedonia against Italy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 29, 2022, 01:14:11 PM
The biggest difference between 2018 and 2022, is how much the USMNT controls things.

Forget about outside help for a second.  Needing a draw on the road compared to a 5-0 loss is huge.  There's a reason "getting CONCACAFed" is part of US soccer vernacular.  And that's exactly what happened in 2018.
 
In 2022, there is no need to worry about a 1 goal loss, or even a draw.  All the USMNT has to do is park the bus, kill 90 minutes, and not concede 6 goals.

So interesting wrinkle to all this...Grant Wahl reported that yellow cards from the Octagonal WILL carry over to the intercontinental playoff in Qatar. Right now, Francisco Calvo, Bryan Oviedo, Celso Borges, and Joel Campbell, all Costa Rican starters, would miss the playoff if they took a yellow on Wednesday. So would reserves Bryan Ruiz, Jewisson Bennett, Keysher Fuller, and Johan Venegas. There's a very real possibility the Ticos roll out a B team on Wednesday since needing a 6-goal victory to advance is fairly unlikely and their worst case scenario is going to that playoff.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 29, 2022, 05:40:35 PM
Crazy final day in the CAF qualifying.  Nigeria fails to qualify, their fans storm and subsequently vandalize the field.  Senegal beats Egypt in a shootout only a few months after beating them in a shootout AFCON, might not even be the biggest story of that game considering the dozens? hundreds? of lasers that were being shined in the eyes of the Egyptian penalty takers. Then, to cap it all off, Algeria thinks that they have a 118 minute winner, only to concede a 124th minute goal and go out on away goals.  Every continent formats their qualifying differently, but in terms of pure last day value, I don't think you're going to be able to beat that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on March 30, 2022, 09:45:00 AM
Crazy final day in the CAF qualifying.  Nigeria fails to qualify, their fans storm and subsequently vandalize the field.  Senegal beats Egypt in a shootout only a few months after beating them in a shootout AFCON, might not even be the biggest story of that game considering the dozens? hundreds? of lasers that were being shined in the eyes of the Egyptian penalty takers. Then, to cap it all off, Algeria thinks that they have a 118 minute winner, only to concede a 124th minute goal and go out on away goals.  Every continent formats their qualifying differently, but in terms of pure last day value, I don't think you're going to be able to beat that.

The Algeria Cameroon game was awesome
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 30, 2022, 09:46:16 AM
Things are basically set for the World Cup draw on Friday:

Pot 1: Qatar, Brazil, Belgium, France, Argentina, England, Spain, Portugal

Pot 2: Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, Mexico*, USA*, Switzerland, Croatia, Uruguay

Pot 3: Senegal, Iran, Japan, Morocco, Serbia, Poland, South Korea, Canada/Tunisia**

Pot 4: Canada/Tunisia**, Saudi Arabia, Ecuador, Ghana, Cameroon, AFC/CONMEBOL playoff winner, Oceania/CONCACAF playoff winner, UEFA playoff winner

*USA or Mexico go to Pot 2 if qualified, but could fall to Pot 4 if they do not advance automatically
**Canada is Pot 3 with a win tonight and Tunisia goes to Pot 4, a Canada loss/draw flips them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 30, 2022, 11:25:49 AM
The Nigeria/Ghana game hashing was a little something....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 30, 2022, 11:42:30 AM
The Nigeria/Ghana game hashing was a little something....

The CAF is an absolute joke.  I find it hard to put too much blame on individual national teams and fans when the federation just allows garbage to run rampant.  From safety to officiating to corruption, its pathetic.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 30, 2022, 11:57:29 AM
The CAF is an absolute joke.  I find it hard to put too much blame on individual national teams and fans when the federation just allows garbage to run rampant.  From safety to officiating to corruption, its pathetic.

Those Egyptian PKs yesterday were ridiculous. I couldn't believe the ref allowed that to continue.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 30, 2022, 12:47:35 PM
Those Egyptian PKs yesterday were ridiculous. I couldn't believe the ref allowed that to continue.

Saw people justifying like "oh its just retaliation for the Egyptian fans doing it in the previous leg".  But there is a difference between it being shined during a match (which unfortunately happens a lot) and an entire player's face being covered during a pen shootout
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 30, 2022, 01:01:52 PM
The CAF is an absolute joke.  I find it hard to put too much blame on individual national teams and fans when the federation just allows garbage to run rampant.  From safety to officiating to corruption, its pathetic.

Opps, autocorrected hashtag.

#Nig/Gha but remove the slash....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2022, 02:15:35 PM
Gotta admire New Zealand.  Ever since Australia left for Asia, they have been the easy Oceania qualifier.  This year for the fourth straight time.  They still have to win a playoff, which would be likely against Costa Rica, but this year it is just one game and not two legs.  (They are 1-2 in those playoffs previously.)

But reducing your chances for qualification to a playoff, when there is no way they would get in through the Asian qualification, is best option available.

Australia OTOH probably thought going to Asia would be easier but they now have to win two playoffs - the first v. UAE and the second v. Peru.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 30, 2022, 02:34:47 PM
Gotta admire New Zealand.  Ever since Australia left for Asia, they have been the easy Oceania qualifier.  This year for the fourth straight time.  They still have to win a playoff, which would be likely against Costa Rica, but this year it is just one game and not two legs.  (They are 1-2 in those playoffs previously.)

But reducing your chances for qualification to a playoff, when there is no way they would get in through the Asian qualification, is best option available.

Australia OTOH probably thought going to Asia would be easier but they now have to win two playoffs - the first v. UAE and the second v. Peru.

I find it amusing that the groups is still called "Australia and Oceania"....despite the Socceroos leaving. 

But you have to wonder if it does anything to prepare them for that playoff, much less a WC?  Of the best 4 squads after them in the group...a grand total of 1 player...TOTAL, plays professional football.  The rest are semi-pro players in the tiny leagues on their islands.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2022, 02:48:02 PM
I get that, but they would really struggle qualifying out of Asia.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 30, 2022, 09:50:22 PM
Questions left to still answer:
- who's taking the corners/free kicks?
- who's the #9?
- who's the #1?
- what's the strategy against teams that bunker?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on March 30, 2022, 09:51:26 PM
Steffen  >:( yikes. So poor on the second goal. Turner needs a fair shake moving forward.

Still exciting we’re back!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on March 30, 2022, 09:53:03 PM
Questions left to still answer:
- who's taking the corners/free kicks?
- who's the #9?
- who's the #1?
- what's the strategy against teams that bunker?

A creative Reyna in the 11 and Dest on the wing will definitely up the quality and makes it harder for opponents to sit back. I really like this core if everyone is healthy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 30, 2022, 10:03:16 PM
Miserable effort. Wasted so many chances, and Steffen had terrible reactions on both goals. But it couldn't been worse. At least we qualified.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 31, 2022, 08:57:21 AM
So what are the dream and nightmare draws for the US?  With the understanding that every group has to have at least one UEFA team.  My thought...

Dream:  Qatar, Serbia and Ghana

Nightmare: Brazil, Poland and Wales (if they qualify)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on March 31, 2022, 09:36:13 AM
Qatar, Tunisia, Scotland would be a dream if the goal is to win the group.

To advance? Something like Belgium, Tunisia, Ecuador.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on March 31, 2022, 09:42:16 AM
That European playoff spot is such a wildcard. One of those "Wales, oh no..." vs "Ukraine, okay..." vs "Scotland, oh yeah..." situations. But best case is probably to get one of the Pot 3 Euros.

Though while Qatar is clearly the seeded team everyone is hoping for, who's next? I have to think Portugal is the next best case. Definitely want nothing to do with Belgium, France, Brazil, or Argentina, and landing a Euro team in pot 1 would lessen the likelihood of getting Serbia/Poland/Wales out of pots 3/4.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 01, 2022, 10:59:03 AM
Gotta love Qatar touting this as the first “carbon neutral” World Cup. 🙄🙄🙄
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on April 01, 2022, 11:36:51 AM
That European playoff spot is such a wildcard. One of those "Wales, oh no..." vs "Ukraine, okay..." vs "Scotland, oh yeah..." situations. But best case is probably to get one of the Pot 3 Euros.

Though while Qatar is clearly the seeded team everyone is hoping for, who's next? I have to think Portugal is the next best case. Definitely want nothing to do with Belgium, France, Brazil, or Argentina, and landing a Euro team in pot 1 would lessen the likelihood of getting Serbia/Poland/Wales out of pots 3/4.

Agree on Portugal. Wouldn't hate Argentina, especially to help avoid Peru as the Pot 4 team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 01, 2022, 11:40:37 AM
Gotta love Qatar touting this as the first “carbon neutral” World Cup. 🙄🙄🙄

At least they didn't tout it as the first "slave labor neutral" World Cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 01, 2022, 12:13:59 PM
Great draw all things considered
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on April 01, 2022, 12:20:19 PM
Would have preferred Ghana or Cameroon to the EUR playoff winner, but that could have gone far worse.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 01, 2022, 12:22:15 PM
US v England on Black Friday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 01, 2022, 12:27:14 PM
Would have preferred Ghana or Cameroon to the EUR playoff winner, but that could have gone far worse.

After 2010, I'm ok never playing Ghana again.  The WC is stressful enough without giving up an early goal to a CAF team and seeing them start time wasting before the 20th minute.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Warriors4ever on April 01, 2022, 12:43:26 PM
I don’t shop on Black Friday - much rather watch the game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 01, 2022, 12:53:44 PM
Would have preferred Ghana or Cameroon to the EUR playoff winner, but that could have gone far worse.

Ukraine and Yarmolenko are a tough side. So are Wales.

People around the office today were saying they like the US chances against England and I’m sure you could see the visible eye roll I gave off.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 01, 2022, 01:01:37 PM
Ukraine and Yarmolenko are a tough side. So are Wales.

People around the office today were saying they like the US chances against England and I’m sure you could see the visible eye roll I gave off.

Agreed - England isn’t England of old. There aren’t (apparent) club rifts between national team players and they seem very much like a cohesive unit, with the usual high level of talent England boasts.

But all things considered, the draw is favorable for us.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: fjm on April 01, 2022, 01:21:12 PM
Love the draw actually.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 01, 2022, 01:21:41 PM
Ukraine and Yarmolenko are a tough side. So are Wales.

People around the office today were saying they like the US chances against England and I’m sure you could see the visible eye roll I gave off.

Ukraine has Yarmolenko and Yaremchuk and Malinovskyi, but then a bunch of lower level guys or guys like Zinchenko who don't get run at very good clubs.  Their defense is especially suspect, which is why they park the bus, and they have a geriatric GK.

Wales is scary cause of two big names, Bale and Ramsey.  But the rest of their squad is Championship/League One caliber guys.  And Ramsey isn't the Ramsey of old.  He played less than 50 matches in Serie A at Juve in 3 seasons, less than 70 total.  Hence why he got loaned down to 9th best league in Europe.

Defense?  Ehh.  Anchored by Ben Davies who has never been able to remain a first choice with Spurs?  Otherwise a bunch of young unproven guys

And who is in goal?  An old Hennessey who hasn't been a first choice keep in 4-5 seasons?  Perpetual back up Danny Ward?

The US has a ton of question marks, but unquestionably more talent that anyone other than England in the group, so just gotta get results.  Too bad we didn't get the Dutch group.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 01, 2022, 03:42:44 PM
Agreed - it’s the World Cup. You can point to class players on almost every team who qualified.

Overall, I expect us to take a minimum of 4 points from Iran and the playoff team. 4 points should get us through to the knockouts.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 01, 2022, 08:16:20 PM
The US has a ton of question marks, but unquestionably more talent that anyone other than England in the group, so just gotta get results.  Too bad we didn't get the Dutch group.

I feel like there's no one to really be afraid of in this group, but I'm not sure anyone will be really afraid of us, either. I was really happy to get Group B though because I think we have a realistic path to advance and if we do, there's no overly daunting opponent that will be waiting in the Round of 16.

It's certainly getting ahead, but a quarterfinal is certainly something we can dream about without being unrealistic.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 01, 2022, 10:14:26 PM
I feel like there's no one to really be afraid of in this group

Not trying to be an ass, but do people really think the current US squad could compete with a full strength England? They have lost in regulation once since 2020.

This statement could absolutely blow up in my face, but realistically, England should beat the US 2-0, 3-1, something along those lines. It’s not the England of old with internal rifs, star players getting red cards in the biggest matches, and no plan.

They’ve made a semi-final and final in their two major tournaments under Southgate, they didn’t fluke their way to one quarter finals appearance.

What I will say is the weather in Qatar could play a huge factor. It ain’t gonna be a rainy Tuesday in Stoke, thats forsure.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 01, 2022, 11:30:37 PM
I think this USA squad is better suited to play a team like England than they are the CONCACAF teams they've been playing recently. Our best players (Pulisic, Reyna) are better in a skill based game than the grind it out rock fights of the Octagonal.

My biggest worry is that Berhalter sticks with Steffen in goal. For all his time at City, he isn't very good with the ball at his feet and isn't nearly the shot stopper Turner is. Against teams like England that can apply continuous offensive pressure, we need Turner. If Steffen keeps the starting role, I agree. But Turner gives us a shot at a draw or even stealing a win.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 03, 2022, 11:41:58 AM
Is Matt Doherty the best left back in the PL?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 03, 2022, 12:06:25 PM
Is Matt Doherty the best left back in the PL?

This is teal right?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 03, 2022, 12:34:37 PM
This is teal right?

 ;)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 03, 2022, 02:25:01 PM
Is Matt Doherty the best left back in the PL?

At least for one day.

Wonder how much covid affected him in regards to his fitness.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on April 06, 2022, 02:53:52 PM
Not trying to be an ass, but do people really think the current US squad could compete with a full strength England?

Yes. The gap between the two in how they've been playing is much larger than the gap between their best potential. Hopefully that closes before November. As-is, I'm with Brew.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on April 06, 2022, 03:58:18 PM
Man, that Lo Celso guy looked pretty good today. Foyth and Capoue weren’t bad either. If only Aurier had gotten a little more run  ;)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 07, 2022, 12:40:58 PM
@MLS_Buzz: CONMEBOL and CONCACAF are in conversation about a Copa America played in the United States in 2024. The 2016 Copa America in the USA was the highest attended Copa America in history (USA finished 4th).

Hope this happens. I loved the last one. I had tickets to the Argentina match at Soldier against Panama and was incredibly disappointed when Messi, recovering from injury, didn't start. He came off the bench in the second half and scored a hat trick. Phenomenal game experience.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on April 07, 2022, 12:48:18 PM
@MLS_Buzz: CONMEBOL and CONCACAF are in conversation about a Copa America played in the United States in 2024. The 2016 Copa America in the USA was the highest attended Copa America in history (USA finished 4th).

Hope this happens. I loved the last one. I had tickets to the Argentina match at Soldier against Panama and was incredibly disappointed when Messi, recovering from injury, didn't start. He came off the bench in the second half and scored a hat trick. Phenomenal game experience.

Would love this, had the full Chicago set in 2016. Got to see the Messi hat trick, the US win, then sold the tickets to the semis to break even and didn’t have to sit through that thunderstorm/tornado.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 08, 2022, 01:36:35 PM
@MLS_Buzz: CONMEBOL and CONCACAF are in conversation about a Copa America played in the United States in 2024. The 2016 Copa America in the USA was the highest attended Copa America in history (USA finished 4th).

Hope this happens. I loved the last one. I had tickets to the Argentina match at Soldier against Panama and was incredibly disappointed when Messi, recovering from injury, didn't start. He came off the bench in the second half and scored a hat trick. Phenomenal game experience.

Was there as well. Also was there for the Colombia/Chile game.

Standing in the concourse for over an hour was not pleasant
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 09, 2022, 12:58:31 PM
Antonio unnatural carnal knowledgeing conte
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on April 09, 2022, 01:36:35 PM
Is tomorrow the biggest Premier League match ever? There’s never been two teams this dominant at the same time, this close in the table, this late in the season.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 09, 2022, 06:24:48 PM
Following a Championship team facing relegation sucks. Reading lost from ahead today. It was the 7th time they've dropped all the points after having the lead. They've dropped 27 total points on the live table from a leading position.

Conversely, they have come from a deficit to win just twice and draw 3 times. So 27 points dropped, 9 points recovered. I've never followed a team and felt less confident with a lead.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 09, 2022, 06:36:47 PM
Following a Championship team facing relegation sucks. Reading lost from ahead today. It was the 7th time they've dropped all the points after having the lead. They've dropped 27 total points on the live table from a leading position.

Conversely, they have come from a deficit to win just twice and draw 3 times. So 27 points dropped, 9 points recovered. I've never followed a team and felt less confident with a lead.

Weren't they towards the top at the beginning of the year?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 11, 2022, 09:17:51 AM
Weren't they towards the top at the beginning of the year?

Very early on, yes, but it's been a whirlwind season. Some losses to injury, some to the January window. Guys expected to score didn't. Fired the manager midway through and got assessed a points deduction that dragged RFC closer to relegation. I think they'll probably stay up, but dropping another 3 points this past Saturday (coming from ahead to lose is really getting old) has them still tittering on the brink.

8 point cushion, 5 to play, though Barnsley has a game in hand, that should be enough. But when you have 12 wins and have seen leads turned into points dropped 10 times, it's hard to have much trust in that team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 11, 2022, 09:29:26 AM
Poor Doherty
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 11, 2022, 04:29:50 PM
Very early on, yes, but it's been a whirlwind season. Some losses to injury, some to the January window. Guys expected to score didn't. Fired the manager midway through and got assessed a points deduction that dragged RFC closer to relegation. I think they'll probably stay up, but dropping another 3 points this past Saturday (coming from ahead to lose is really getting old) has them still tittering on the brink.

8 point cushion, 5 to play, though Barnsley has a game in hand, that should be enough. But when you have 12 wins and have seen leads turned into points dropped 10 times, it's hard to have much trust in that team.

Dang, Derby's points deduction is the only thing keeping Reading up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 12, 2022, 04:03:15 PM
So Villareal go to Munich and knock out Bayern to go to the semifinals of the Champions League.

They only qualified for the CL this year because they won the Europa League last year, beating Arsenal in the semifinals and Manchester United in the Final winning 1-1 (11-10 in PKs.)

To qualify for the CL knockout stage this year, they had to win on the road in Atalanta in the final group stage match.  In the first round of the knockout, they beat Juventus.

And pretty much the only way they would qualify for next year's CL is to win this year since their La Liga place wouldn't qualify.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 12, 2022, 05:02:27 PM
So Villareal go to Munich and knock out Bayern to go to the semifinals of the Champions League.

They only qualified for the CL this year because they won the Europa League last year, beating Arsenal in the semifinals and Manchester United in the Final winning 1-1 (11-10 in PKs.)

To qualify for the CL knockout stage this year, they had to win on the road in Atalanta in the final group stage match.  In the first round of the knockout, they beat Juventus.

And pretty much the only way they would qualify for next year's CL is to win this year since their La Liga place wouldn't qualify.

Nagelsmann will be fine as Bayern will comfortable win the Bundesliga again, but man that was SHOCKINGLY uninspired from Bayern over 2 legs.  On the road is one thing, but they looked atrocious today.  Completely and utterly devoid of quality in the final third for basically the whole match.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 13, 2022, 03:39:47 PM
He's gotten plenty of results, so full marks to him for that, but I can't STAND Diego Simeone and his tactics.  Its anti-football with a good dash of dirty play and theatrics.  Its so rare, especially in the last 5 seasons, that a meaningful match featuring Atletico will be at all entertaining.

In more pleasant news, Liverpool onto the Semis.  3 semis in 5 years after a decade absence.  Klopp is an absolute gem.  A favorable draw with Villareal has good potential for a 3rd Championship appearance in the span which makes the awful showing in 2015 feel like a different lifetime.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 13, 2022, 03:46:14 PM
He's gotten plenty of results, so full marks to him for that, but I can't STAND Diego Simeone and his tactics.  Its anti-football with a good dash of dirty play and theatrics.  Its so rare, especially in the last 5 seasons, that a meaningful match featuring Atletico will be at all entertaining.

In more pleasant news, Liverpool onto the Semis.  3 semis in 5 years after a decade absence.  Klopp is an absolute gem.  A favorable draw with Villareal has good potential for a 3rd Championship appearance in the span which makes the awful showing in 2015 feel like a different lifetime.

Some may call it great defending, but I feel like I’m order it to be great, you need to have some sort of counter strategy when you win the ball and let it turn into dangerous offensive possession.

They did absolutely nothing of the sort in this tie. Just complete shutdown negative soccer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on April 13, 2022, 04:02:28 PM
The worst part is that they have attacking talent.  The second half of the second leg today they've arguably been the better team (up until the scrum).  They just choose to wait until the last 45 minutes of a 180 minute tie to even try to start looking towards goal.  Griezmann, Felix, Suarez (admittedly old), is a solid front line that shouldn't have to play like this.

The world deserves City Liverpool round 4 for the final.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 13, 2022, 04:37:15 PM
Some may call it great defending, but I feel like I’m order it to be great, you need to have some sort of counter strategy when you win the ball and let it turn into dangerous offensive possession.

They did absolutely nothing of the sort in this tie. Just complete shutdown negative soccer.

1000% is glorified parking of the bus, from a team stacked with talent.

The worst part is that they have attacking talent.  The second half of the second leg today they've arguably been the better team (up until the scrum).  They just choose to wait until the last 45 minutes of a 180 minute tie to even try to start looking towards goal.  Griezmann, Felix, Suarez (admittedly old), is a solid front line that shouldn't have to play like this.

The world deserves City Liverpool round 4 for the final.

Thats been the Simeone mission statement.  In the 10+ years that he's been in charge, they averaged more than 1.8 goals per game twice.  The only year they averaged 2 goals...they won La Liga and finished runner up in the CL.  SHOCKER. And its not like they play in the EPL or a recently low scoring Serie A.  They play in a top heavy La Liga where they could bomb goals in against minnows where the bottom 5 teams are awful.

And they've always had attacking talent up top.  Costa, Griezmann, Suarez, Morata, Torres, and now Felix.  It just doesn't matter.  They are going to defend, hack at you, and maybe score on a counter.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 13, 2022, 05:27:21 PM
Once klopp wins a couple more PL titles and CL titles, he should come on over to the US and lead the usmnt to a world cup titled in 2026. Thereby solidifying him as the greatest football manager in history
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 13, 2022, 08:29:16 PM
Once klopp wins a couple more PL titles and CL titles, he should come on over to the US and lead the usmnt to a world cup titled in 2026. Thereby solidifying him as the greatest football manager in history

Klopp has already said he won't be at Liverpool forever.  Likely only 3-5 more years max.  I genuinely wonder where he'll go.  I can't see him in La Liga or Serie A.  And probably not Bayern.  Maybe the German National Team?  He'll be near 60, which is nothing for a soccer manager
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 16, 2022, 08:22:14 AM
Ug. So spursy
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 16, 2022, 10:17:06 AM
Steffen so so so bad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 16, 2022, 01:24:09 PM
Steffen so so so bad.

Almost like not getting regular run and reps and then being thrown into a high pressure game against a very good, offensively potent team is a recipe for failure.

Make no mistake, he was bad.  But thats a rough position to be in
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 16, 2022, 02:24:56 PM
Almost like not getting regular run and reps and then being thrown into a high pressure game against a very good, offensively potent team is a recipe for failure.

Make no mistake, he was bad.  But thats a rough position to be in

Agreed but still bad - and not good for WC prospects. He needs a loan move in a bad way next season. He looked really bad in the last qualifying window too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 16, 2022, 08:03:29 PM
Agreed but still bad - and not good for WC prospects. He needs a loan move in a bad way next season. He looked really bad in the last qualifying window too.

Yea for sure.  Whoever the #1 is needs to be playing regularly.  Its my concern for Turner too.  Arsenal is a great opportunity but not if he's going to be second choice and play sparingly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 18, 2022, 02:03:39 PM
Yea for sure.  Whoever the #1 is needs to be playing regularly.  Its my concern for Turner too.  Arsenal is a great opportunity but not if he's going to be second choice and play sparingly.

Yep - Why I didn't love the either of the moves for them. I don't see City bending over backwards to find Steffen a move either.

Arsenal may be more accommodating given their depth at the spot.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 18, 2022, 03:24:08 PM
Yep - Why I didn't love the either of the moves for them. I don't see City bending over backwards to find Steffen a move either.

Arsenal may be more accommodating given their depth at the spot.

Yea, they have a stud in Ederson and they have their old, wily English 3rd keeper.  They have no need or want to move Steffan.  Its just a crap situation for him, considering he's too old for them to wanna loan again.

Assuming Arsenal is moving Leno back to the Bundesliga, Turner will get a shot with Ramsdale I'd think, to the tune of 20ish apps a season, barring injury.  As opposed to Pep who will play Ederson till his hands fall off each season
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 19, 2022, 08:28:03 AM
Almost like not getting regular run and reps and then being thrown into a high pressure game against a very good, offensively potent team is a recipe for failure.

Make no mistake, he was bad.  But thats a rough position to be in

Reps or not, he's a poor shot stopper and isn't great playing with the ball at his feet, which is supposed to be his strength. Berhalter seems to forget that the job of the goal keeper is to keep balls out of the goal, however, so I expect Steffen to remain his number 1.

On the personal front...I love Tom McIntyre. He grew up a Reading fan, went to the Reading Academy, and even rushed the pitch from the stands when Reading was promoted in 2012. Now he plays for the Royals.

On Friday, Reading went ahead 1-0 at promotion challengers Sheffield as Reading tries to fight off relegation only to concede what looked like a sure drawing goal in the 88th minute. Tom McIntyre scored in added time to seal the 2-1 win. On Monday, Reading again took a 1-0 lead, this time over Swansea, only to get battered into a 4-1 hole. They chipped away and cut the lead to 4-3 going into added time. Again, McIntyre came up big, scoring the game-tying goal, relegating Derby in the process, and all but assuring Reading won't be relegated (7 points ahead with 3 to play).

After the Swansea match, he went over to the stands he used to sit in and led the fans in song. What a legend.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 19, 2022, 03:42:08 PM
Just heard during Liverpool's absolute thumping of United...

Fulham have secured promotion.  In doing so, Fulham and Norwich have swapped promotion and relegation for a 5th straight season.  Kind of hilarious
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on April 20, 2022, 11:13:55 AM
Just heard during Liverpool's absolute thumping of United...

Fulham have secured promotion.  In doing so, Fulham and Norwich have swapped promotion and relegation for a 5th straight season.  Kind of hilarious

I really want to believe it will be different this time under Silva. Fulham hasn't dominated the Championship like this in past promotion seasons. But I'm firmly in wait and see mode.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 20, 2022, 11:42:36 AM
I really want to believe it will be different this time under Silva. Fulham hasn't dominated the Championship like this in past promotion seasons. But I'm firmly in wait and see mode.

Yea, I love Fulham but Mitro just disappears against Premier League competition.

The new Riverside Stand at Craven Cottage should be done before the 2022-23 season, which should help the home atmosphere unlike when it was a dead zone last time around.

Craven Cottage is definitely one of my favorite grounds that I’ve been to.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 20, 2022, 06:11:45 PM
Can't count on Chelsea for anything
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 24, 2022, 02:23:05 PM
I never had a ton of respect for Lampard to begin with, but what a joke he is.  I get Everton is fighting for relegation, but I haven't seen a more trash, cynical gameplan in quite awhile.  Pickford started trying to time waste at the 10 min mark.  Everton were hacking and diving everywhere.  It was just awful.  Anthony Gordon is really talented but he will never amount to anything if he refuses to stay on his feet.  I would say I was shocked Richarlison didn't get a red, but the officiating was spotty all match.

Liverpool is keeping pace.  Gonna be brutal if they fall short by a single point AGAIN
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 25, 2022, 08:13:21 AM
Saw a classic click-bait debate on Twitter recently after Pulisic's winning goal this weekend asking where he ranks among Americans in the Premier League. Of course, most were saying either 1 or 2 with Dempsey the other name, but I'm curious what people here think. Here are my thoughts:

Top tier: Clint Dempsey, Brad Friedel, Tim Howard

Second tier: Christian Pulisic, Brian McBride, Carlos Bocanegra, Kasey Keller, Brad Guzan

Third tier: Claudio Reyna, Roy Wegerle, Geoff Cameron, Marcus Hahnemann

I think Pulisic is close to breaking through to that top tier, but right now just doesn't have the longevity of those top three.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 25, 2022, 08:22:31 AM
Saw a classic click-bait debate on Twitter recently after Pulisic's winning goal this weekend asking where he ranks among Americans in the Premier League. Of course, most were saying either 1 or 2 with Dempsey the other name, but I'm curious what people here think. Here are my thoughts:

Top tier: Clint Dempsey, Brad Friedel, Tim Howard

Second tier: Christian Pulisic, Brian McBride, Carlos Bocanegra, Kasey Keller

Third tier: Claudio Reyna, Roy Wegerle, Geoff Cameron, Marcus Hahnemann

I think Pulisic is close to breaking through to that top tier, but right now just doesn't have the longevity of those top three.


Would you put Guzan on the second tier?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 25, 2022, 08:37:45 AM
Crap, yeah, I meant to put him on there and just forgot. Will edit. He's probably borderline second/third.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 25, 2022, 10:28:32 AM
Saw a classic click-bait debate on Twitter recently after Pulisic's winning goal this weekend asking where he ranks among Americans in the Premier League. Of course, most were saying either 1 or 2 with Dempsey the other name, but I'm curious what people here think. Here are my thoughts:

Top tier: Clint Dempsey, Brad Friedel, Tim Howard

Second tier: Christian Pulisic, Brian McBride, Carlos Bocanegra, Kasey Keller, Brad Guzan

Third tier: Claudio Reyna, Roy Wegerle, Geoff Cameron, Marcus Hahnemann

I think Pulisic is close to breaking through to that top tier, but right now just doesn't have the longevity of those top three.

I can buy the longevity angle.  But the difference for me, that would already have Pulisic nudging into the top tier, is the caliber of club he's on.  I love Deuce and he was so fun to watch at Fulham, but he was on a middle table club at best.  Pulisic has been showing out for a club that's contending and winning serious silverware.  He's ahead of Dempsey in terms of goal scoring in their first few seasons in the EPL, plus he's adding goals in the CL.  All while battling some injuries and struggling to stay in Tuchel's mercurial good graces.  He keeps it up another season or 2, debate over.

I do think keepers and outfield players are apples to oranges in this debate, only cause there was a light to medium prejudice against Americans related to their quality, IMO, that didn't extend to keepers.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on April 26, 2022, 04:29:31 PM
Well, at least one side of Madrid can play an entertaining game.  They were lucky not to ship in more, and neither team defended well, but man, that was as entertaining of a game as you'll ever see.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 28, 2022, 10:36:50 AM
Cool article on Forward Madison's kits:

https://theonlinerule.com/forward-madison-football-kits-grow-brand-community/ (https://theonlinerule.com/forward-madison-football-kits-grow-brand-community/)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2022, 10:54:10 AM
Cool article on Forward Madison's kits:

https://theonlinerule.com/forward-madison-football-kits-grow-brand-community/ (https://theonlinerule.com/forward-madison-football-kits-grow-brand-community/)

I have one from a couple of years ago, and I love the designs they use.  Hopefully can make it to a match this year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 28, 2022, 11:31:21 AM
I love side-eying anything Madison, but everything around the branding and marketing of Forward Madison.  The kits are gorgeous in every form.  Ive seen IG sponsored ads for a British soccer kit podcast and they were talking about Forward Madison, which is pretty remarkable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: noblewarrior on May 03, 2022, 12:48:22 PM
The race for regulation and Europe are gonna be fun to watch in the PL... Everton on the brink! 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 04, 2022, 04:08:04 PM
This semifinal is nuts. City up 1-0, 5-3 on aggregate. Madrid score in the 90th and 91st minute, then get a penalty in extra time. As it stands they're on to Paris.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 09, 2022, 11:04:47 AM
Miles Robinson with a torn Achilles.  CB is an area that we have decent depth, but he was still one of the better options and pretty much a lock for the WC roster.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 09, 2022, 11:19:00 AM
Miles Robinson with a torn Achilles.  CB is an area that we have decent depth, but he was still one of the better options and pretty much a lock for the WC roster.

This is why USMNT regulars shouldnt play in MLS
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on May 09, 2022, 11:31:06 AM
Miles Robinson with a torn Achilles.  CB is an area that we have decent depth, but he was still one of the better options and pretty much a lock for the WC roster.

He was most likely a first choice at CB along with Zimmerman.  But I think Richards can step up.  Hopefully Aaron Long can return to form.  And like you said, there is some depth there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 12, 2022, 03:09:46 PM
Spurs
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 12, 2022, 03:36:33 PM
Two games to go and the title hasn't been decided, top 4 hasn't been decided, and relegation hasn't been decided.  Pretty interesting season IMO.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 12, 2022, 03:42:05 PM
COYS
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 12, 2022, 05:25:42 PM
Still amused that a handful of us can't stand each other, but are all Spurs.   8-)

NLIW.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 13, 2022, 06:09:50 AM
Still amused that a handful of us can't stand each other, but are all Spurs.   8-)

NLIW.

I frequently wonder if anyone around here is Charlie the lib.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 16, 2022, 04:42:04 PM
🍼🍼🍼🍼
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 16, 2022, 06:14:39 PM
5/11 -> 5/16 predictions 👀👀👀
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 17, 2022, 09:54:31 AM
Is anyone here going to the BM v MC friendly at Lambeau?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Tortuga94 on May 17, 2022, 07:55:32 PM
Is anyone here going to the BM v MC friendly at Lambeau?

Yes, I'm going with my boys, also going to the MLS vs Liga MX all star game in MN in August.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 18, 2022, 07:07:55 AM
@ussoccer: In a historic accomplishment, U.S. Soccer, @USMNT and @USWNT have come together to agree to new collective bargaining agreements that will run through 2028 and achieve true equal pay – including equalization of World Cup prize money.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 18, 2022, 07:12:56 AM
@ussoccer: In a historic accomplishment, U.S. Soccer, @USMNT and @USWNT have come together to agree to new collective bargaining agreements that will run through 2028 and achieve true equal pay – including equalization of World Cup prize money.

Guess I’ll have to boycott Woke Soccer
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 18, 2022, 08:52:46 AM
Guess I’ll have to boycott Woke Soccer

Just wait until the biological males insist on playing for the USWNT to cash in on some of that sweet coin. Boom! - women's sports ruined forever.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 18, 2022, 08:58:00 AM
Just wait until the biological males insist on playing for the USWNT to cash in on some of that sweet coin. Boom! - women's sports ruined forever.

Imagine if our best trans athletes played soccer
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 18, 2022, 09:02:19 AM
Good.  The WNT bargained for a better deal than their last CBA.  The WNT deserves  it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 18, 2022, 11:16:02 AM
Just wait until the biological males insist on playing for the USWNT to cash in on some of that sweet coin. Boom! - women's sports ruined forever.

Can we keep this troll crap out of here and keep this thread to actual Futbol talk...and making fun of Arsenal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 18, 2022, 11:22:08 AM
Can we keep this troll crap out of here and keep this thread to actual Futbol talk...and making fun of Arsenal.

Were you by any chance a hall monitor in middle school?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 18, 2022, 11:42:47 AM
Were you by any chance a hall monitor in middle school?

How about don't ruin a good thread ?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 18, 2022, 12:34:50 PM
Were you by any chance a hall monitor in middle school?

^^^  Grade A badass right here, folks.  ^^^
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 18, 2022, 12:48:50 PM
@ussoccer: In a historic accomplishment, U.S. Soccer, @USMNT and @USWNT have come together to agree to new collective bargaining agreements that will run through 2028 and achieve true equal pay – including equalization of World Cup prize money.

Wait until the men's team finds out that their pay has been reduced to the women's team level! 8-)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 18, 2022, 03:42:53 PM
Rangers - Eintracht Frankfurt. What a game so far. Really impressive to see the mark Gerrard left on the squad before going to Villa. He took a team with some significant financial issues playing second fiddle to Celtic and turned them into the top team in the Scottish Prem and a danger team in Europe. Very shrewd use of English castoffs/loans from top sides.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 18, 2022, 04:53:57 PM
Can we keep this troll crap out of here and keep this thread to actual Futbol talk...and making fun of Arsenal.

I thinks we understood it as teal
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 18, 2022, 05:12:56 PM
Rangers - Eintracht Frankfurt. What a game so far. Really impressive to see the mark Gerrard left on the squad before going to Villa. He took a team with some significant financial issues playing second fiddle to Celtic and turned them into the top team in the Scottish Prem and a danger team in Europe. Very shrewd use of English castoffs/loans from top sides.

Lots of British teeth in that crowd.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 18, 2022, 07:58:36 PM
Lots of British teeth in that crowd.

Cup final/summer tournament British fans are the best British fans. A group of people just not meant for the sun/heat.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 19, 2022, 03:45:06 PM
They're still a terribly run club, but Everton fans show how much they care.  Leeds or Burnley now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 19, 2022, 03:53:24 PM
Tottenham better win at Norwich on Sunday to wrap up a CL spot.  Because I don't think there is much chance of Everton going to London and giving Arsenal a game after tonight.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on May 19, 2022, 03:58:24 PM
That pitch invasion was one of the funniest damn things I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 19, 2022, 05:06:48 PM
Tottenham better win at Norwich on Sunday to wrap up a CL spot.  Because I don't think there is much chance of Everton going to London and giving Arsenal a game after tonight.

A draw would be enough
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 19, 2022, 07:00:13 PM
A draw would be enough

Unless Arsenal wins by 16.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 20, 2022, 08:58:41 AM
https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1527621298599477251?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

This would be the most "Spursy" Sir Totteringham's day ever if it were to happen. 

Need to invest in some more TV's to keep up with everything Sunday, Scudetto up for grabs too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 20, 2022, 09:21:36 AM
https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1527621298599477251?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

This would be the most "Spursy" Sir Totteringham's day ever if it were to happen. 

Need to invest in some more TV's to keep up with everything Sunday, Scudetto up for grabs too.

Conte says it's not true.

https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com/2022/5/20/23132274/tottenham-hotspur-news-antonio-conte-food-dismisses-food-poisoning-rumor-gary-lineker-harry-kane
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 22, 2022, 03:23:52 PM
What a day.

Coys
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2022, 06:06:41 PM
What a day.

Coys

Job done ✅️
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 22, 2022, 06:45:07 PM
One of the more fun final days in awhile, and I say that as a Liverpool supporter.  I never expected them to pull it off today, and when Villa went up 1, I thought it was fools gold.  2-0 Villa was surreal but that was tempered by LFC lacking any final quality.  Then it all went to hell.

But the relegation drama was amazing.  So stoked for Jesse Marsch, awesome dude and excellent manager who got a raw deal at Leipzig and then walked into a REALLY tough situation at Leeds.  They were going sideways but pulling out that draw at the death against Brighton and then the 3 points today, so well deserved.  But the roller coaster.  Goal overruled.  Then Burnley concedes, then they score, then Brentford equalizes.  My god

And well done Spurs teabagging Arsenal yet again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 22, 2022, 07:31:33 PM
One of the more fun final days in awhile, and I say that as a Liverpool supporter.  I never expected them to pull it off today, and when Villa went up 1, I thought it was fools gold.  2-0 Villa was surreal but that was tempered by LFC lacking any final quality.  Then it all went to hell.

But the relegation drama was amazing.  So stoked for Jesse Marsch, awesome dude and excellent manager who got a raw deal at Leipzig and then walked into a REALLY tough situation at Leeds.  They were going sideways but pulling out that draw at the death against Brighton and then the 3 points today, so well deserved.  But the roller coaster.  Goal overruled.  Then Burnley concedes, then they score, then Brentford equalizes.  My god

And well done Spurs teabagging Arsenal yet again.

If Mane's goal in the 55th or so hadn't been offsides, I feel I would have been a very different story, because word would have spread very quickly, and I just feel like City would have panicked.  The fact that City got their third before Liverpool got their second was huge IMO.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on May 23, 2022, 09:27:09 AM
Yesterday was up there with the best days in March.

Peacock's Goal Rush was solid for following it, but ideally they'd have an option where you can choose your main game while still getting the goals from other ones. Or at least a split screen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 26, 2022, 01:58:41 PM
Aaronson officially joins Leeds.  Think its a great move for him and think he'll work well with Marsch.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 26, 2022, 02:30:41 PM
Aaronson officially joins Leeds.  Think its a great move for him and think he'll work well with Marsch.

Agreed.  Good fit, good move, and has a chance to do some good stuff...unlike Sargent's terrible move to Norwich
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 26, 2022, 02:42:00 PM
Really good fit for Marsch. Pressing player with a super high motor. He's going to a good situation too where he'll get ample opportunity given Raphina moves on.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 28, 2022, 02:10:51 PM
UEFA screwing up the UCL Final.  ::)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 28, 2022, 02:12:05 PM
UEFA screwing up the UCL Final.  ::)


I mean, this would drive me nuts.

https://twitter.com/thisisanfield/status/1530622891838119936?s=20&t=HcHyHVgGhNDnZhlsutORjA
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 28, 2022, 05:37:46 PM

I mean, this would drive me nuts.

https://twitter.com/thisisanfield/status/1530622891838119936?s=20&t=HcHyHVgGhNDnZhlsutORjA

Screwing it up, pepper spraying/tear gassing fans, and then lying and blaming “late arriving fans” when the issue had been going on for hours.

The cover up started immediately as they were cornering people and trying to get them to delete footage
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 28, 2022, 05:39:53 PM
Screwing it up, pepper spraying/tear gassing fans, and then lying and blaming “late arriving fans” when the issue had been going on for hours.

The cover up started immediately as they were cornering people and trying to get them to delete footage

Now they are blaming fans with fake tickets. 🙄
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU1in77 on May 28, 2022, 08:28:28 PM
The best player in Futbol today - Kevin Du Bruyne?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChuckyChip on May 30, 2022, 11:40:26 AM
At the risk of getting mocked (again) for my support of Norwich City FC, here is an interesting bit of news from the BBC.  Seems like Brewers owner Mark Attanasio 
might have an interest in becoming an investor (owner?) in the club.  Not sure if he has deep enough pockets to get the Canaries out of yo-yo purgatory, but anything would help, I guess - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-61617418 (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-61617418)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 30, 2022, 12:15:25 PM
At the risk of getting mocked (again) for my support of Norwich City FC, here is an interesting bit of news from the BBC.  Seems like Brewers owner Mark Attanasio 
might have an interest in becoming an investor (owner?) in the club.  Not sure if he has deep enough pockets to get the Canaries out of yo-yo purgatory, but anything would help, I guess - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-61617418 (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-61617418)

$8m for Mccutchen:  sweat engulfs Attanisio's body.
£?m to invest in Norwich City:  sure, that sounds fun.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 30, 2022, 02:44:05 PM
$8m for Mccutchen:  sweat engulfs Attanisio's body.
£?m to invest in Norwich City:  sure, that sounds fun.

I mean, $8MM is probably a third of what he'd need to purchase majority ownership of Norwich now that they've gone down
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 30, 2022, 02:50:46 PM
Investing in a team in the championship is just a very expensive lottery ticket. Lucky enough to go up/stay up and it’s a win for the pocket book.

Lots more goes into it, but that’s the very basic rationale.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 30, 2022, 03:32:03 PM
Investing in a team in the championship is just a very expensive lottery ticket. Lucky enough to go up/stay up and it’s a win for the pocket book.

Lots more goes into it, but that’s the very basic rationale.

Investing in the Championship in hopes of a Premier League payoff is a poor investment. The Stokes that get there and stick are rare. Leicester was insanely improbable (5,000:1 odds). Even if you do earn promotion, it's more likely that will net 1-2 seasons in the top flight. Plenty of billionaires have failed in that gambit.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 30, 2022, 04:51:03 PM
Investing in the Championship in hopes of a Premier League payoff is a poor investment. The Stokes that get there and stick are rare. Leicester was insanely improbable (5,000:1 odds). Even if you do earn promotion, it's more likely that will net 1-2 seasons in the top flight. Plenty of billionaires have failed in that gambit.

I'm not sure I agree with that.  You can be quite profitable on an investment without winning an EPL title like Leicester.

Leeds was sold for under $60MM 5 years ago and is valued around $500MM without a top 8 finish.

Nottingham Forest sold for around $70MM a few years back.  I can assure you they could be sold tomorrow for an easy 3-4x return.

Its been said that promotion is worth around $200MM overnight given TV deals.

Now money and/or new ownership doesn't guarantee promotion, and you're likely not going to get a good return if you stick around the Championship for a decade, but if you don't spend like an absolute nutter to get promoted and/or spend wildly once you get there, there is plenty of money to be made, even without top 10 finishes or qualifying for European Cups.

FWIW, the number of clubs, since the Prem's founding 30 years, who have spent 2 seasons or less in the top flight is only 8.  If you move it into the 2000s, you lose flukes like Oldham, Bradford City, Swindon, Barnsley, and its only Huddersfield (who almost came back up), Cardiff City, Brentford, and Blackpool.  Clearly you must just be sensitive to it as a Reading supporter  ;D

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 30, 2022, 05:40:35 PM
Investing in the Championship in hopes of a Premier League payoff is a poor investment. The Stokes that get there and stick are rare. Leicester was insanely improbable (5,000:1 odds). Even if you do earn promotion, it's more likely that will net 1-2 seasons in the top flight. Plenty of billionaires have failed in that gambit.

its no coincidence they call the championship playoff the richest game in football. Stick around in the prem for a couple seasons and the payoff is huge. Even if the team gets relegated, they still receive parachute payments from tv rights for several season after if I’m remembering correctly.

You don’t need to win or finish anywhere near the top. Just stay up and it’s big money.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on May 31, 2022, 07:51:05 AM
Charlotte FC, the newest MLS team, began play a few months ago.

Today, they fired their coach.

That was quick!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ChuckyChip on May 31, 2022, 01:01:38 PM
More details on the Norwich City/Mark Attanasio story.  It appears that he would be purchasing an 18% interest in the club -

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2022/05/31/report-links-brewers-owner-mark-attanasio-norwich-city-soccer-club/7456532001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2022/05/31/report-links-brewers-owner-mark-attanasio-norwich-city-soccer-club/7456532001/)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 31, 2022, 01:35:04 PM
More details on the Norwich City/Mark Attanasio story.  It appears that he would be purchasing an 18% interest in the club -

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2022/05/31/report-links-brewers-owner-mark-attanasio-norwich-city-soccer-club/7456532001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2022/05/31/report-links-brewers-owner-mark-attanasio-norwich-city-soccer-club/7456532001/)

Aka probably less than he's paying Cain this year, and def less than what he's paying Yelich
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 31, 2022, 03:55:06 PM
Aka probably less than he's paying Cain this year, and def less than what he's paying Yelich

While I'd love for him to invest in the Brewers, smart money investing into a team which is most likely the odds on favorite to earn automatic promotion next season. Premier league ready team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 05, 2022, 12:58:19 PM
I know FIFA has them ranked higher, but man am I glad we're getting Wales and not Ukraine.  Ukraine has been much better today and has a solid young roster that could give us trouble (not to mention that a lot of neutrals would probably jump on their bandwagon just because). Our youth and talent should be able to run circles around 32 year old Joe Allen, and 31 year old Aaron Ramsey in the midfield.  Bale is still quality from a direct kick, but considering his injury history as well as the fact that he currently doesn't have a club (was strongly linked with retirement if they didn't win, and the most recent club he's been linked with is Cardiff City), I'd much rather face them than Ukraine.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 05, 2022, 01:06:01 PM
Yeah but I was rooting for Ukraine.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 05, 2022, 01:41:01 PM
I know FIFA has them ranked higher, but man am I glad we're getting Wales and not Ukraine.  Ukraine has been much better today and has a solid young roster that could give us trouble (not to mention that a lot of neutrals would probably jump on their bandwagon just because). Our youth and talent should be able to run circles around 32 year old Joe Allen, and 31 year old Aaron Ramsey in the midfield.  Bale is still quality from a direct kick, but considering his injury history as well as the fact that he currently doesn't have a club (was strongly linked with retirement if they didn't win, and the most recent club he's been linked with is Cardiff City), I'd much rather face them than Ukraine.

Would be a huge disappointment not to get through to the knockouts
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 04, 2022, 07:37:16 PM
NBC puts eight of ten opening week PL games on Peacock. Only one game televised on the weekend. ::)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 05, 2022, 06:06:27 AM
Good news is that of this posting, Arsenal is in first place.

See you guys next week when they're in fourth already.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 05, 2022, 09:47:25 AM
NBC puts eight of ten opening week PL games on Peacock. Only one game televised on the weekend. ::)

NBC with a gorgeous case study in building a brand/cultivating a fanbase...and then promptly burning it down.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 05, 2022, 09:54:25 AM
NBC with a gorgeous case study in building a brand/cultivating a fanbase...and then promptly burning it down.

OK, well apparently its because they are covering the Women's Open.  But still...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 05, 2022, 09:57:40 AM
OK, well apparently its because they are covering the Women's Open.  But still...

Id agree if that wasn't the MO repeatedly in the past otherwise.  Extending it to the opening weekend wouldn't surprise me in the least, Women's Open or otherwise
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 05, 2022, 10:20:18 AM
NBC with a gorgeous case study in building a brand/cultivating a fanbase...and then promptly burning it down.

This is what they do.  Reel you in with the free broadcasts and then try to port you to the premium.

Extremely disappointing, but par for the course.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on August 05, 2022, 01:31:04 PM
Let's see some predictions.

Champs - Liverpool
Top 4 - City, Chelsea, Spurs
Relegated - Brentford, Bournemouth, Southampton (Fulham's gotta hold on one of these years right?)

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 05, 2022, 02:14:27 PM
Let's see some predictions.

Champs - Liverpool
Top 4 - City, Chelsea, Spurs
Relegated - Brentford, Bournemouth, Southampton (Fulham's gotta hold on one of these years right?)

Champs - City
Top 4 - Liverpool, Chelsea, GUNNERS (dream big, I know.)
Relegated - Fulham, Bournemouth, Nottingham
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: fjm on August 15, 2022, 12:41:00 PM
All but confirmed USMNT kits.

Horrendous. Nike just saved me some money.

https://prosoccerwire.usatoday.com/2022/08/15/usmnt-world-cup-kit-leak-mckennie/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on August 15, 2022, 12:43:23 PM
All but confirmed USMNT kits.

Horrendous. Nike just saved me some money.

https://prosoccerwire.usatoday.com/2022/08/15/usmnt-world-cup-kit-leak-mckennie/

I guess at least the blue ones are different than the kits they've had in the past. The white one is bland and ordinary.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 15, 2022, 01:04:52 PM
I guess at least the blue ones are different than the kits they've had in the past. The white one is bland and ordinary.

Yea, the white one is just trash repurposed early 2000s crap.  The blue one, in non-weird washed out lighting could be kind of cool
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on August 15, 2022, 01:10:09 PM
Blue are marginally interesting, but looks more like an Inter Milan alternate kit than a USA one. The white are predictably boring. I'd really like to see the Waldos embraced as a full-time primary kit and a blue with red and white trim as the secondary. This is very meh. But as fjm said, it won't cost me any money at least.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 15, 2022, 05:50:43 PM
It's a travesty what the usmnt allows Nike to do to the brand.

Not only are the bland and boring, but it's likely that 2-6 other countries will have the same design in different colors.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on August 18, 2022, 09:56:36 PM
Fun opening night to the NCAA Women’s College Soccer Season.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 19, 2022, 08:50:22 AM
Really hoping that Pulisic can get this loan through to Newcastle.  Howe's a good manager and among the interested clubs, he'd get the most playing time there.  75th min sub appearances at Chelsea are not gonna cut it to get WC sharp.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 19, 2022, 09:04:08 AM
Really hoping that Pulisic can get this loan through to Newcastle.  Howe's a good manager and among the interested clubs, he'd get the most playing time there.  75th min sub appearances at Chelsea are not gonna cut it to get WC sharp.

Agreed,  definitely don't want him at that nightmare show at Old Trafford
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 20, 2022, 06:27:50 AM
Can’t believe I’m saying this but I’d support any move. Including united. He needs to play every week and play where he’s comfortable on the field. He’ll get that at multiple places including united. Wouldn’t be my first or second choice for him, but still better than playing 5-10 mins/game at Chelsea.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on August 20, 2022, 02:50:11 PM
2 more for Josh:

https://twitter.com/HenryBushnell/status/1560727881751601152?t=zgd4XHxrC60mCuLKwOQnbg&s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 20, 2022, 03:03:00 PM
2 more for Josh:

https://twitter.com/HenryBushnell/status/1560727881751601152?t=zgd4XHxrC60mCuLKwOQnbg&s=19

Shocking - play a striker in front instead of in a defensive winger position like he’s been the past few seasons and he scores goals. He’s taking the most of his chance with Puuki out. Happy to see him succeed
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 25, 2022, 12:32:21 PM
Champions League Draw.
Group C has my vote for Group of Death.

Group A: Ajax, Liverpool, Napoli, Rangers
Group B: FC Porto, Atletico Madrid, Bayer Leverkusen, Club Brugge
Group C: Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Viktoria Plzen
Group D: Eintracht Frankfurt, Tottenham Hotspur, Sporting CP, Marseille
Group E: AC Milan, Chelsea, FC Salzburg, Dinamo Zagreb
Group F: Real Madrid, RB Leipzig, Shakhtar Donetsk, Celtic
Group G: Manchester City, Sevilla, Borussia Dortmund, Copenhagen
Group H: Paris Saint-Germain, Juventus, Benfica, Maccabi Haifa
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 25, 2022, 12:47:31 PM
Champions League Draw.
Group C has my vote for Group of Death.

Group A: Ajax, Liverpool, Napoli, Rangers
Group B: FC Porto, Atletico Madrid, Bayer Leverkusen, Club Brugge
Group C: Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Viktoria Plzen
Group D: Eintracht Frankfurt, Tottenham Hotspur, Sporting CP, Marseille
Group E: AC Milan, Chelsea, FC Salzburg, Dinamo Zagreb
Group F: Real Madrid, RB Leipzig, Shakhtar Donetsk, Celtic
Group G: Manchester City, Sevilla, Borussia Dortmund, Copenhagen
Group H: Paris Saint-Germain, Juventus, Benfica, Maccabi Haifa


Poor Plzen. First you’re known for tasteless beer and now you have to play Bayern, Inter and Barca.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2022, 01:04:18 PM
The group is about advancing.
The knock outs are about glory.

COYMFS

(Q:Where's arsenanal?
A: Turkmenistan on a Thursday night)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 25, 2022, 01:20:44 PM
Lewa gets to play Bayern and Haaland gets to play Dortmund.  Should be fun.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 25, 2022, 02:49:11 PM
The group is about advancing.
The knock outs are about glory.

COYMFS

(Q:Where's arsenanal?
A: Turkmenistan on a Thursday night)

I don't think we could have had a better draw, honestly
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 26, 2022, 03:40:33 PM
The power of a few American's.  Leeds pushing Chelsea, Pool, and City to Peacock. 

That being said, Peacock still sucks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on August 27, 2022, 08:38:05 AM
Shocking - play a striker in front instead of in a defensive winger position like he’s been the past few seasons and he scores goals. He’s taking the most of his chance with Puuki out. Happy to see him succeed

https://twitter.com/henrybushnell/status/1563515034307022853?s=21&t=B_LR4Ic3_ppFqKoUAx2qFg
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 27, 2022, 02:08:29 PM
https://twitter.com/henrybushnell/status/1563515034307022853?s=21&t=B_LR4Ic3_ppFqKoUAx2qFg

Playing as a true #9 for the first time in a few years. He should lead the line for the US in novemeber.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 03, 2022, 10:29:24 AM
Jesse Marsch needs to calm the hell down.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 07, 2022, 06:16:39 AM
Chelsea. Whoa
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 07, 2022, 08:44:39 AM
I know it's Chelsea, but the timing makes absolutely no sense to me.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 07, 2022, 08:52:00 AM
Screams "impatient new owner."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 07, 2022, 09:22:37 AM
Screams "impatient new owner."

Seems less "impatient" to me, and more "never really cared for Tuchel and would like my own guy".

Maybe Boehly is a big Pulisic fan and hates that Tuchel doesn't care that much for him and relegates him to the bench.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 07, 2022, 09:50:39 AM
Seems less "impatient" to me, and more "never really cared for Tuchel and would like my own guy".

Maybe Boehly is a big Pulisic fan and hates that Tuchel doesn't care that much for him and relegates him to the bench.

If that were the case I wouldn't have given TT over a quarter billion in the transfer window, then sacked him a week after it closes. 

Whoever comes in is going to have to deal with the squad as it exists, games every three days, then large parts of your squad leaving for the WC.  Not exactly ideal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 07, 2022, 12:13:41 PM
Good article on Tuchel and Chelsea

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/behind-the-scenes-of-thomas-tuchels-sacking-how-chelsea-lost-confidence-he-was-the-right-man-for-the-future/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 08, 2022, 02:06:58 PM
Well, no games this weekend, likely no games next weekend, then the International break.  Gonna be tough getting all of those games made up with the already condensed schedule.  Looks like it'll just be a Dortmund v Leipzig plus F1 weekend.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 08, 2022, 02:44:03 PM
Good lord.  Two weeks off for the death of a 90+ year old woman?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 08, 2022, 02:45:14 PM
Good lord.  Two weeks off for the death of a 90+ year old woman?

Wait until 45 croaks
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 08, 2022, 03:04:01 PM
Good lord.  Two weeks off for the death of a 90+ year old woman?

Next weekend might be a possibility, this weekend is all but confirmed. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 08, 2022, 03:05:43 PM
So much for "keep calm and carry on."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on September 08, 2022, 03:13:32 PM
Nothing I've seen that confirms games are canceled this weekend, but it does seem like a matter of time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 08, 2022, 08:16:27 PM
Too bad for Brighton. Potter had them flying and developing some great young talent.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 09, 2022, 08:26:53 AM
This weekend officially postponed.  Would think next weekend would depend on if they can get enough policing to properly manage the games as the funeral is likely to be that Saturday and will have a large presence.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 09, 2022, 08:40:54 AM
Yeah, I don't think they are going to play next Saturday when the funeral is going on. I know logistics are tough, but maybe they will move all games to Sunday - they can't go past that day because it's an international break.

The other issue is the European competitions next week. Chelsea and Arsenal are hosting in London on Wednesday and Thursday.  Liverpool and City are as well but those might be easier.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 09, 2022, 08:50:24 AM
Yeah, I don't think they are going to play next Saturday when the funeral is going on. I know logistics are tough, but maybe they will move all games to Sunday - they can't go past that day because it's an international break.

The other issue is the European competitions next week. Chelsea and Arsenal are hosting in London on Wednesday and Thursday.  Liverpool and City are as well but those might be easier.

No way European competitions get postponed. The group stages have to be done before the WC.  FA Cup Replays will be gone, but even with that the scheduling will be a nightmare.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 09, 2022, 08:55:25 AM
I am wondering if the London clubs will try to swap home games with the clubs visiting next week.  Or maybe all will be good.

You can make up this weeks games by playing over a couple of weeks at the same time as Europe in the Spring, but UEFA doesn't like that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 10, 2022, 12:07:55 AM
She isn't even buried yet, someone should say "oops, we were mistaken, she's alive" and Weekend at Bernie's the Queen until the International break.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 10, 2022, 07:20:42 AM
She isn't even buried yet, someone should say "oops, we were mistaken, she's alive" and Weekend at Bernie's the Queen until the International break.

I know this is a joke, but there is a non-zero chance that this actually would have happened if she died during the WC and England were playing well into the latter stages.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 11, 2022, 06:00:15 PM
Bet they wish they would have played this weekend with the funeral not taking place until Monday.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: noblewarrior on September 12, 2022, 08:57:53 AM
Here’s an update on the potential for playing games latter this week and upcoming weekend.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=v_MXA_e7F7E&feature=share
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 12, 2022, 11:48:04 AM

Premier League
@premierleague

The #PL will resume this weekend after a pause to the season as a mark of respect following the passing of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.
Seven of the 10 Matchweek 8 fixtures will be played, with three postponed due to events surrounding The Queen’s funeral.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on September 14, 2022, 10:09:59 AM
September Friendlies Roster USMNT:

https://twitter.com/USMNT/status/1570064810825420800?t=-hTNfgGzWo3Q9wXsPAKAVw&s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 14, 2022, 11:07:24 AM
Not sure I get Pepi over Haji or Pefok. Would also think that this now officially ends Brooks international career.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 14, 2022, 11:49:43 AM
Not sure I get Pepi over Haji or Pefok. Would also think that this now officially ends Brooks international career.

Pepi call up makes ZERO sense to me.  I think he's got a ton of potential, obviously, but his club form has been pretty mediocre.  He hasn't scored since leaving MLS.  Meanwhile Haji has been scoring for fun and Pefok has had a nice start in Berlin.  Also not sure why Arriola is still getting significant run.  I'll keep my mouth shut about Morris cause thats just not worth it and never gonna change.

I'll disagree on Brooks though.  I think its a form/playing time issue more than anything.  He was club-less since leaving Wolfsburg in March.  Now that he's with Benfica, if he gets significant time, I think he's back in the picture.  He's not yet 30 and has tons of experience.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on September 14, 2022, 03:21:33 PM
Pepi over Pefok sucks. He's been so bad since the move overseas. Hard to imagine a world where he gets hot enough to make the WC team at this point, so why bother?

Brooks left off after his time off makes sense in a vacuum, but there's obviously something between him and Greggggg. Can still see him contributing for Jesse Marsch's USMNT in the next cycle.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 17, 2022, 02:28:19 PM
Is Son back??
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on September 17, 2022, 02:38:02 PM
An entertaining half hour.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 21, 2022, 03:04:56 PM
Late to this but no Pefok on this weeks friendly roster ?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 23, 2022, 12:31:43 PM
Truly pathetic display this morning. Ferrera missing an absolute sitter will not help the “where’s pefok” crowd. Horrendous miss.

Center back pairing just embarrassing.

Playing a high line when you cant hold possession is such a gregggggggg tactical decision.

A complete embarrassment.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on September 23, 2022, 03:43:58 PM
Well, at least least England just got relegated, and have looked pretty awful for a while now.  Should be a very interesting group.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 23, 2022, 03:45:34 PM
I don't know how much of an indicator the Nations League is, but Wales hasn't been all that good either.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 23, 2022, 07:14:35 PM
I don't know how much of an indicator the Nations League is, but Wales hasn't been all that good either.

Their stars are aging and not in good form.  Bale played only 40 league games total in the last 3 years and is now playing below his depth significantly.  Ramsey hasn't played much recently and is a shell of his star self.  Joe Allen is no longer a EPL level talent.  Their keepers are backups.

Oh, and their manager wasn't successful...at the League 1 and League 2 level, much less running a national team
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on September 24, 2022, 01:29:24 PM
Their stars are aging and not in good form.  Bale played only 40 league games total in the last 3 years and is now playing below his depth significantly.  Ramsey hasn't played much recently and is a shell of his star self.  Joe Allen is no longer a EPL level talent.  Their keepers are backups.

Oh, and their manager wasn't successful...at the League 1 and League 2 level, much less running a national team

Yep. The more I look at the group, the more I think the US should get out of it and it's a failure if they don't. There may not be a pushover in the group and Iran is a tricky game, but they and Wales are both clearly at a lower level than the US.

I don't hate Berhalter, but assuming the squad is mostly healthy, he is my main concern going into November.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 27, 2022, 02:53:45 PM
0-0 to saudi arabia B team  8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

All for the system
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 01, 2022, 12:07:00 PM
Very quiet in here. Weird. 🤔
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 01, 2022, 01:21:45 PM
https://twitter.com/chrisivey865/status/1576239136930877440?s=46&t=FeA_DmNM7-GRCOKZAd3w5w
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MuggsyB on October 01, 2022, 09:33:35 PM
Apparently 120 were killed (Stampede) at an Indonesian soccer game after police fired tear gas because of brawls in the stands. WTF?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on October 02, 2022, 09:15:12 AM
Went to my first Charlotte FC match last night and had a good time. Charlotte, a first-year expansion team, had only 4 shots all game (all by the same player) and he scored on all 4 of them. Philly, which is in first place, managed only 1 shot all game. The fans had a lot of energy, chanting and singing much of the night, and there were 40K+ people there.

I went with my daughter, who played soccer in HS and was a Seattle Sounders season ticket holder for years, so it was great to have somebody who knew futbol next to me. I'm going back to the stadium today to watch the Panthers; hope they have similar success! (4-0 in futbol = about 44-0 in football, right?)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 04, 2022, 10:22:48 AM
Very quiet in here. Weird. 🤔

Because if I talk about it, it will end.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 06, 2022, 01:58:51 PM

For those interested in soccer stadiums and training centers. MLS' newest stadium: stlCITY Stadium (Centene Stadium)

https://twitter.com/PDPJ/status/1551754143680892928?t=r6A8GlG-uSrut8TbyXyu9Q&s=19

https://twitter.com/MattSebek/status/1537563982025961472?t=u2WqaLPMHdMnDSliOHeCWA&s=19

https://twitter.com/stlCITYsc/status/1559298654267211779?t=RKqjKvgcZzx7IhsrTK9JTw&s=19


https://twitter.com/PeterWood33/status/1562981679429713920?t=EOynhYYsR-FWCUCkUBk_UQ&s=19

Some pictures/video of the training facility which is immediately South of the stadium, and immediately West of Union Station.

https://twitter.com/stlCITYsc/status/1572377139877662724?t=NMEMqgSwjidqdE9K82xhFA&s=19

https://twitter.com/stlaerials/status/1563692980405501956?t=Yegu6Ux5OURqSnfAj-v8Yg&s=19

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 06, 2022, 02:24:01 PM
Greatest stadium for the greatest fans ever.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: cheebs09 on October 06, 2022, 03:39:04 PM
The team is already counting the day those pictures/videos were taken as a sellout.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 06, 2022, 04:05:51 PM
MLS won't rest until there's a franchise few people care about in every mediocre city on the continent.
Can't wait until they introduce their 46th team, FC Dayton.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 06, 2022, 06:21:13 PM
MLS won't rest until there's a franchise few people care about in every mediocre city on the continent.
Can't wait until they introduce their 46th team, FC Dayton.

Perhaps for some other geogralhies. But MLS has wanted a franchise in the country's historic soccer capital (St. Louis) since MLS started. It wasn't until until a few years ago that they had Billionaire owners with interest, and private money.




Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 11, 2022, 12:15:34 PM
I get that he's a generational talent and will be one of the faces of the sport for the next decade, but Mbappe sure seems to be a massive diva.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 11, 2022, 01:33:57 PM
I get that he's a generational talent and will be one of the faces of the sport for the next decade, but Mbappe sure seems to be a massive diva.

Its always interesting to look at these situations.  Who knows what is being said behind closed doors.  Mbappe's dream club as always been Real Madrid.  Thats pretty known.

However, the one benefit I'll give him.  He resigned with PSG and shocked a lot of people.  I would not be surprised if he asked for and was promised a variety of things.  Whether it be where he is playing (he doesn't want to be a 9) or how they would approach roster creation/transfer activity.  If they promised him one thing and have not followed through in the last 6 months, then I sort of get why he's pissed and wants to say screw it.

I also think the transfer nature of Euro soccer makes it a bit more ok.  Cause its not like the NBA where you trade away unhappy superstars for a collection of parts or 80 cents on the dollar.  At least you get a fat compensation packet you can spend on others.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 11, 2022, 02:13:27 PM
I can understand that, but he's also the highest paid athlete in the world, his input was considered when choosing the new sporting director and manager, and he re-signed 5 months ago.  It's easy to say that PSG should have gone out and bought a striker, but even with PSG money, who all was available?  He wouldn't have wanted to share the spotlight with Haaland, Lewy only wanted Barca.  Maybe try tempting Milan for Leao, but that was always going to be north of 150 mil.  PSG were listening to offers for Neymar, who Mbappe supposedly doesn't get long with,  but if nothing suitable came in he was always going to stay.  Just seems like he's gotten just about everything reasonable that he's asked for and he still wants to leave now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 12, 2022, 10:30:15 AM
I can understand that, but he's also the highest paid athlete in the world, his input was considered when choosing the new sporting director and manager, and he re-signed 5 months ago.  It's easy to say that PSG should have gone out and bought a striker, but even with PSG money, who all was available? He wouldn't have wanted to share the spotlight with Haaland, Lewy only wanted Barca.  Maybe try tempting Milan for Leao, but that was always going to be north of 150 mil.  PSG were listening to offers for Neymar, who Mbappe supposedly doesn't get long with,  but if nothing suitable came in he was always going to stay.  Just seems like he's gotten just about everything reasonable that he's asked for and he still wants to leave now.

Jesus wanted out of Manchester specifically to be a #9. Isak would have come cheaper than what Newcastle paid. Could have called on Werner. Heck, Barca practically put Aubameyang on the "free to take" pile. 

Ekitike will be good and eventually be the exact guy Mbappe wants to play off of but he's 20 and raw which doesn't help for today.

Galtier is known for his stubbornness, Neymar is a legitimate diva which Mbappe has put up with it for years, Messi is injury prone at this stage of his career, and PSG's defense is such that Sergio Ramos (eek) is a choice being made.

All of that in the stew and it's not a shock the most important guy at the club is looking around and thinking this may not be an ideal situation.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 12, 2022, 10:48:35 AM
Jesus wanted to stay in England and specifically wanted Arsenal because of his relationship with Arteta.  Isak has one season with more than 15 goals, I'm not sure he could cut it at PSG. Werner was desperate to get out, but only wanted Germany, specifically Leipzig.  Auba has proved to be an even bigger diva than both Mbappe and Neymar, that dressing room would have been a disaster. 

End of the day when Mbappe signed his new deal he knew exactly what he was signing up for.  He knew Neymar was likely unmovable, he knew Messi was going to be there even with his injury history.  Luis Campos had the resume to get the job, but he went from just a name on the list, to the only candidate, because Mbappe wanted him.  Galtier would not have been given the job if Mbappe didn't sign off on it.

I'm not against star players getting a say in roster construction in any sport.  Giannis and Lebron have gotten it, Brady has gotten it, Messi and Ronaldo have gotten it.  The difference is that all those players showed a significant sense of loyalty as well as winning the biggest prize in their respective sport.  Mbappe has done none of that, and is (deservedly) taking heat from a lot of media and fans.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 12, 2022, 11:25:48 AM
He also knew that PSG is notorious for holding onto you even if you want out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 13, 2022, 10:09:08 AM
Jesus wanted to stay in England and specifically wanted Arsenal because of his relationship with Arteta.  Isak has one season with more than 15 goals, I'm not sure he could cut it at PSG. Werner was desperate to get out, but only wanted Germany, specifically Leipzig.  Auba has proved to be an even bigger diva than both Mbappe and Neymar, that dressing room would have been a disaster. 

End of the day when Mbappe signed his new deal he knew exactly what he was signing up for.  He knew Neymar was likely unmovable, he knew Messi was going to be there even with his injury history.  Luis Campos had the resume to get the job, but he went from just a name on the list, to the only candidate, because Mbappe wanted him.  Galtier would not have been given the job if Mbappe didn't sign off on it.

I'm not against star players getting a say in roster construction in any sport.  Giannis and Lebron have gotten it, Brady has gotten it, Messi and Ronaldo have gotten it.  The difference is that all those players showed a significant sense of loyalty as well as winning the biggest prize in their respective sport.  Mbappe has done none of that, and is (deservedly) taking heat from a lot of media and fans.


Interesting you don't think Isak could "cut it" at PSG playing alongside the best player in the game and the best player of his generation and Neymar. And quite interesting you think LeBron and Ronaldo "showed a significant sense of loyalty" during their careers.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 13, 2022, 10:48:14 AM

Interesting you don't think Isak could "cut it" at PSG playing alongside the best player in the game and the best player of his generation and Neymar. And quite interesting you think LeBron and Ronaldo "showed a significant sense of loyalty" during their careers.

I guess.  I think it's interesting you abandoned Jesus, Timo and Auba so quickly.  There's a reason that Isak went from Real Sociedad to Newcastle.  He's a good player that can contribute at those mid tier teams, but he's not world class and that's what PSG/Mbappe would want.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 13, 2022, 11:32:04 AM
I guess.  I think it's interesting you abandoned Jesus, Timo and Auba so quickly.  There's a reason that Isak went from Real Sociedad to Newcastle.  He's a good player that can contribute at those mid tier teams, but he's not world class and that's what PSG/Mbappe would want.

Thats really selling Isak short.  He scored 17 goals in La Liga as a 21 year old.  He wasn't as prolific last year on a Real squad that struggled to score in general.  Then this year he scored against Barca in one of 2 appearances before the move and then 2 in 3 games in the PL, including against Liverpool in his debut.  He's only 23.  Clubs don't pay $80MM for mid tier contributors.  He would have been just fine and very productive in that PSG attack.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 13, 2022, 11:34:32 AM
Thats really selling Isak short.  He scored 17 goals in La Liga as a 21 year old.  He wasn't as prolific last year on a Real squad that struggled to score in general.  Then this year he scored against Barca in one of 2 appearances before the move and then 2 in 3 games in the PL, including against Liverpool in his debut.  He's only 23.  Clubs don't pay $80MM for mid tier contributors.  He would have been just fine and very productive in that PSG attack.

Yep Isak is a baller. Yes it would’ve been risky for psg to make that move given their lofty European aspirations, but he will be at a big club in the next three years.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 13, 2022, 11:50:15 AM
Thats really selling Isak short.  He scored 17 goals in La Liga as a 21 year old.  He wasn't as prolific last year on a Real squad that struggled to score in general.  Then this year he scored against Barca in one of 2 appearances before the move and then 2 in 3 games in the PL, including against Liverpool in his debut.  He's only 23.  Clubs don't pay $80MM for mid tier contributors.  He would have been just fine and very productive in that PSG attack.

That 80 mil also includes the "we know Newcastle just got bought by the Saudi's" fee, as well as the "this deal is getting done in the last week of August and Sociedad don't really have a replacement" fee.  His market value was much less. 

I'll put it this way, if there's one club that knows how to identify and develop talent it's Dortmund.  If they thought he had world class potential, they wouldn't have sold him for 10 mil. Again, I think he'll be a nice player for Newcastle, and have a nice long career, I just don't see him making any team of the season's, which is about where the bar to play at PSG is, and that's not meant to be a slight against him in any way.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 19, 2022, 07:06:58 PM
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/soccer/2022/10/19/milwaukee-pro-soccer-get-usl-championship-team-for-2025-season/10535786002/

USL coming 2025.  Personally would have rather had NWSL, but certainly won't complain about the continuing growth of the sport in the country.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 20, 2022, 10:38:01 AM
Good for Milwaukee. There is so much more to enjoy in soccer than a handful of European Men's Leagues and the National Teams. (Those things are great too.)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 08, 2022, 01:45:59 PM
Based on his comments today it certainly seems like Blatter knew that awarding Qatar would make it to obvious as to how corrupt FIFA was. Either that or he just wants to be in the headlines again this close to the actual tournament.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 08, 2022, 01:54:58 PM
Based on his comments today it certainly seems like Blatter knew that awarding Qatar would make it to obvious as to how corrupt FIFA was. Either that or he just wants to be in the headlines again this close to the actual tournament.

The whole thing is really disgusting.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 08, 2022, 02:16:45 PM
Based on his comments today it certainly seems like Blatter knew that awarding Qatar would make it to obvious as to how corrupt FIFA was. Either that or he just wants to be in the headlines again this close to the actual tournament.

Its the latter.  He doesn't care, he's always seen himself as bulletproof and above reproach.  He's just desperate for some attention and trying to make himself look "good"
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: noblewarrior on November 09, 2022, 06:08:50 PM
WC roster’s set…

the core seems quality and I’m glad to see Sargent included… no Pefok?… Surprised at myself that i’m glad to see Ream included (top half PL center back)…

not good depth… not much to choose from.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on November 09, 2022, 08:05:18 PM
WC roster’s set…

the core seems quality and I’m glad to see Sargent included… no Pefok?… Surprised at myself that i’m glad to see Ream included (top half PL center back)…

not good depth… not much to choose from.   

Same youth club, same high school, for Josh and Tim.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 09, 2022, 08:34:31 PM
Leaving out an in form Pepi for Jesus fereira :-/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on November 09, 2022, 08:34:45 PM
WC roster’s set…

the core seems quality and I’m glad to see Sargent included… no Pefok?… Surprised at myself that i’m glad to see Ream included (top half PL center back)…

not good depth… not much to choose from.   

Not taking Pepi is questionable. Slotting in Wright for that spot is malpractice.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 12, 2022, 11:20:00 AM
Leeds/Spurs was so much fun

Jk

I'm dead
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on November 16, 2022, 01:26:25 PM
New stadium at Willets Point, Queens, for NYCFC:

https://www.nycfc.com/news/mayor-adams-unveils-vision-for-willets-point-transformation-generational-100-per
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on December 29, 2022, 01:09:15 PM
RIP Pele.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 29, 2022, 01:12:17 PM
December was a terrible month for Brazilian soccer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 29, 2022, 02:23:57 PM
He also was an incredible ambassador for the game. I went to an outing at which he was the featured guest, and he signed autographs for everybody there -- stayed hours to do it. I still have that little sheet of paper with his signature.

Thats interesting, when was that, year wise?

He's obviously an absolute legend and icon.  Arguably the most famous athlete in the world with Ali for awhile. 

But the next positive ancedote about him on a personal level over the last 10-15 years will be the first.  Known a couple people who met him in professional settings in the NYC area that weren't fond of him and he actually lived in the same building as my company's apartment on the East Side of Manhattan.  He was HORRIBLE to the staff and these were all older veterans of the NYC Co-Op scene, 2 of whom worked in white glove buildings on Park Avenue in the past, and they all put him amongst the worst tenants they ever worked with.  Also, as of 2019, I'm not sure how long he'd lived there, but they'd all received a grand total of $0.00 in tips or holiday gifts from the most famous resident in the building, despite collections and letters going out every year from building management.

That being said, many times you watch older soccer matches and you're struck by how comparatively slow the game moved.  A combination of the ball, a less pristine pitch, and players who weren't the perfectly tuned athletic specimens pro footballers are today...except Pele.  Sure the ball is heavier and the boots and socks clunkier, but he moved so quick and fluidly.  Even watching Maradona highlights, while remarkable, don't give the same result.  Anyone who loves watching Brazilian soccer, at its peak jogo bonito (save me the diving quips), owes Pele a debt of gratitude.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 29, 2022, 02:24:10 PM
Thats interesting, when was that, year wise?

He's obviously an absolute legend and icon.  Arguably the most famous athlete in the world with Ali for awhile. 

But the next positive ancedote about him on a personal level over the last 10-15 years will be the first.  Known a couple people who met him in professional settings in the NYC area that weren't fond of him and he actually lived in the same building as my company's apartment on the East Side of Manhattan.  He was HORRIBLE to the staff and these were all older veterans of the NYC Co-Op scene, 2 of whom worked in white glove buildings on Park Avenue in the past, and they all put him amongst the worst tenants they ever worked with.  Also, as of 2019, I'm not sure how long he'd lived there, but they'd all received a grand total of $0.00 in tips or holiday gifts from the most famous resident in the building, despite collections and letters going out every year from building management.

That being said, many times you watch older soccer matches and you're struck by how comparatively slow the game moved.  A combination of the ball, a less pristine pitch, and players who weren't the perfectly tuned athletic specimens pro footballers are today...except Pele.  Sure the ball is heavier and the boots and socks clunkier, but he moved so quick and fluidly.  Even watching Maradona highlights, while remarkable, don't give the same result.  Anyone who loves watching Brazilian soccer, at its peak jogo bonito (save me the diving quips), owes Pele a debt of gratitude.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 03, 2023, 02:23:56 PM
This Greggg story and subsequent USSF statement have been very bizarre. I don't think he's the best coach, but I think his lack of renewal should be based on his lack of merit, not something like this.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 03, 2023, 02:30:09 PM
This Greggg story and subsequent USSF statement have been very bizarre. I don't think he's the best coach, but I think his lack of renewal should be based on his lack of merit, not something like this.

Yeah, not hiring based on this would be ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/GreggBerhalter_/status/1610358071737389057?s=20&t=IgCnow5WHeW3Pemydn9CSg
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 03, 2023, 02:33:53 PM
Yeah, not hiring based on this would be ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/GreggBerhalter_/status/1610358071737389057?s=20&t=IgCnow5WHeW3Pemydn9CSg

Agreed.  Maybe I'm just reading the USSF statement wrong, but I'm certainly getting the impression that they're going to name an "interim" for the January camp and delay naming a full hire until after the European domestic season.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 03, 2023, 02:34:39 PM
Agreed.  Maybe I'm just reading the USSF statement wrong, but I'm certainly getting the impression that they're going to name an "interim" for the January camp and delay naming a full hire until after the European domestic season.

Which is fine cause the January thing isn't a full international break right?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 03, 2023, 02:36:52 PM
Which is fine cause the January thing isn't a full international break right?

Correct, January is just friendlies that will be all MLS based players.  The thing is that CONCACAF Nations' League Starts in March.  Personally I'm okay with an interim for that too, if it means the right hire is made this summer, but I know there are some that disagree.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 03, 2023, 04:05:50 PM
Yeah, not hiring based on this would be ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/GreggBerhalter_/status/1610358071737389057?s=20&t=IgCnow5WHeW3Pemydn9CSg

panda and I did extensive and tireless investigating and reporting on this, please do not dismiss the consequences of our very thorough and meaningful findings...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 03, 2023, 04:35:02 PM
https://twitter.com/BarstoolReags/status/1610375194014523393?t=MgifINSBuRPoNL8HgI_0Vg&s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 03, 2023, 04:55:17 PM
I agree that a new coach is needed, but a 31 year old incident is just USSF being USSF.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on January 03, 2023, 05:25:07 PM
Rough stretch of games coming up, but I don’t think Fulham will be yo-yoing this season
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 04, 2023, 11:27:01 AM

panda and I did extensive and tireless investigating and reporting on this, please do not dismiss the consequences of our very thorough and meaningful findings...

Connect the dots - ggg’s wife and reyna’s mom played college soccer together…..

Not a conspiracy guy but —
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 04, 2023, 11:47:19 AM
Connect the dots - ggg’s wife and reyna’s mom played college soccer together…..

Not a conspiracy guy but —

https://twitter.com/heathpearce/status/1610497766165458944?t=B3TW_sX73m4X1rR9D-oKxw&s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 04, 2023, 11:56:32 AM
https://twitter.com/heathpearce/status/1610497766165458944?t=B3TW_sX73m4X1rR9D-oKxw&s=19

(https://www.gifcen.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/popcorn-gif-8.gif)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 04, 2023, 12:17:43 PM
https://twitter.com/USMNT/status/1610699672448032769?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Don't fully know what this means moving forward, but I would have to think that Greggg is done and Hudson will only be there on a short term basis.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 04, 2023, 12:21:01 PM
https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1610701702159650819?t=oJZZL52mxwXPTXPsPcNOEQ&s=19

Reyna
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 04, 2023, 12:30:29 PM
https://twitter.com/USMNT/status/1610699672448032769?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Don't fully know what this means moving forward, but I would have to think that Greggg is done and Hudson will only be there on a short term basis.

Yeah, no way Hudson would be a full time replacement, his resume makes GGG's look robust.  But you don't appoint an interim only to bring back the main man.

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1610701702159650819?t=oJZZL52mxwXPTXPsPcNOEQ&s=19

Reyna

But I thought GGG and Reyna were besties, hence there would never be anything against Gio?  Or so we heard during the WC.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 04, 2023, 12:34:21 PM
https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1610701702159650819?t=oJZZL52mxwXPTXPsPcNOEQ&s=19

Reyna

Another wrinkle as to why gio didn’t play
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 04, 2023, 12:40:33 PM
Another wrinkle as to why gio didn’t play

I would have to imagine Gio not playing was the first domino
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 04, 2023, 12:43:36 PM
https://twitter.com/valleyshook/status/1610703956652572685?s=20&t=BjimBz64A1Mxyilbq6pr0Q

PodKATT
@valleyshook
·
17m
Honestly, The USMNT tearing itself apart because a dad was angry about his kid's playing time really is the best example we could give to the world of American Soccer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 04, 2023, 12:50:11 PM
https://twitter.com/valleyshook/status/1610703956652572685?s=20&t=BjimBz64A1Mxyilbq6pr0Q

PodKATT
@valleyshook
·
17m
Honestly, The USMNT tearing itself apart because a dad was angry about his kid's playing time really is the best example we could give to the world of American Soccer.

So, so true.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 04, 2023, 01:01:08 PM
https://twitter.com/valleyshook/status/1610703956652572685?s=20&t=BjimBz64A1Mxyilbq6pr0Q

PodKATT
@valleyshook
·
17m
Honestly, The USMNT tearing itself apart because a dad was angry about his kid's playing time really is the best example we could give to the world of American Soccer.

a banger tweet for sure.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 04, 2023, 01:06:10 PM
I would have to imagine Gio not playing was the first domino

Agreed - Can't see a way back into the team for Gio for a long time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 04, 2023, 01:12:23 PM
https://twitter.com/HarvardBiz/status/1610669922631155712?s=20&t=Ac-EOvlSi9E72goh0ihNrQ

Hopefully there will be a Q&A
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 04, 2023, 01:23:26 PM
Agreed - Can't see a way back into the team for Gio for a long time.

I wonder what Gio thinks about all of this...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUBurrow on January 04, 2023, 01:58:44 PM
Man, what was the last time a guy got outed for assaulting his wife and comes out looking better for it?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on January 04, 2023, 09:05:41 PM
I wonder what Gio thinks about all of this...

(https://y.yarn.co/51221fc8-b9a1-4056-90cb-841f2c6e269b_text.gif)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on January 05, 2023, 10:44:49 AM
Man, what was the last time a guy got outed for assaulting his wife and comes out looking better for it?

He doesn't. This was a 20 year old incident, and, Anthony Hudson is now interim head coach. It makes the Reynas look very bad. But I don't think it's going to help Berhalter either.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 05, 2023, 11:02:30 AM
He doesn't. This was a 20 year old incident, and, Anthony Hudson is now interim head coach. It makes the Reynas look very bad. But I don't think it's going to help Berhalter either.

I have to agree with this.  I opposed Berhalter throughout the World Cup stuff and wanted more for Gio, but this is a terrible look for Claudio Reyna, who was always thought well of and a consummate pro.  If Berhalter was a better coach with a better track record, I think he could survive this just fine, because as you said, its ancient history, but he won't.

Its just another black eye for a slapstick organization like USSF.  My biggest worry through all of this is if US Soccer and their foibles and meddling weren't enough of a deterrent for a big name manager, who would otherwise be extremely attracted to the talent and potential in the system, this sort of thing can't be all the appealing from the outside either.

https://twitter.com/HarvardBiz/status/1610669922631155712?s=20&t=Ac-EOvlSi9E72goh0ihNrQ

Hopefully there will be a Q&A

This is laugh out loud timing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUBurrow on January 05, 2023, 11:46:06 AM
I guess I was being a bit flippant and agree he doesn't necessarily come out better - he didn't have a ton of support to continue anyway and now this is a "more trouble than he's worth" footnote.  But this is what people will remember from the whole Gio mess, and history will be more sympathetic to him on that than was imaginable a month ago.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on January 09, 2023, 02:59:21 PM
I guess I was being a bit flippant and agree he doesn't necessarily come out better - he didn't have a ton of support to continue anyway and now this is a "more trouble than he's worth" footnote.  But this is what people will remember from the whole Gio mess, and history will be more sympathetic to him on that than was imaginable a month ago.

Berhalter was already at zero level sympathy for his poor man management, awful game management, and inconsistent disciplinary policy. Don't believe this moves the needle either way. He's still a zero. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 10, 2023, 03:30:09 PM
Berhalter was already at zero level sympathy for his poor man management, awful game management, and inconsistent disciplinary policy. Don't believe this moves the needle either way. He's still a zero.

Yep - Berhalter has done nothing to deserve the second cycle. The latest news cycle shouldn’t sway public opinion on his mediocre results.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 14, 2023, 09:33:30 AM
Controversy in Manchester today.  Have to say that I think the refs got it wrong.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUEng92 on January 14, 2023, 06:04:44 PM
Controversy in Manchester today.  Have to say that I think the refs got it wrong.
I decided to start watching Premier League games about 10-13 years ago because it was a novelty to have live sports on TV at 7:00am.  Never followed soccer in my life except for watching a few games in high school when my friends were playing so I have no real technical knowledge other than what I’ve picked up the last decade.  It gave me the opportunity for once in my life to choose a great team to follow and not wait 30-40 years to witness a championship.  So, I chose to become a Manchester United fan.  After a couple good years, I was starting to think I brought my early fandom jinx to them.

Anyway, after providing all of that background…I’m totally fine with today’s call   ;D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 14, 2023, 08:54:29 PM
Controversy in Manchester today.  Have to say that I think the refs got it wrong.

Absolutely got it wrong.  Rashford was involved with play.  Today was exactly why that wording was added to the offside law.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 15, 2023, 09:45:46 AM
Absolutely got it wrong.  Rashford was involved with play.  Today was exactly why that wording was added to the offside law.

Why is the only important match today not on my TV
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 15, 2023, 03:14:02 PM
Why is the only important match today not on my TV

Cause NBC f#$&@d up a brilliant coverage set up for the EPL in order to monetize NBC Sports Gold and now Peacock and instead went wayyyyy overboard swapping USA for NBC for the marquee game.  It’s beyond laughable
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 16, 2023, 09:46:18 AM
Cause NBC f#$&@d up a brilliant coverage set up for the EPL in order to monetize NBC Sports Gold and now Peacock and instead went wayyyyy overboard swapping USA for NBC for the marquee game.  It’s beyond laughable

It was pretty unreal to not have on the first place team against their rival on TV. 

Oh well, at least the Gooners won.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 16, 2023, 12:31:32 PM
This tweet is wild

https://twitter.com/USMNTpilka/status/1614708455541202944?s=20&t=eGApC093zZY5Ng4ENmlYug

The Gio stuff has been hashed out plenty, but the fact that Scally didn't get any field time is pretty baffling.

On the bright side, pretty amazing that among 5 teenagers playing the most minutes in the 3rd best league in the world, you have 2 Americans.  Especially when the other 3 are Bellingham who is about to command a massive transfer fee and is wanted by everyone, Musiala who was getting PT at Bayern before he was even 18 and is one of the most promising German stars in years, and Moukoko who is the youngest player to ever play for Germany in a WC and is similarly on a path for superstardom.  Amazing company.  And both are playing for clubs who will play European football next year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 16, 2023, 02:25:03 PM
This tweet is wild

https://twitter.com/USMNTpilka/status/1614708455541202944?s=20&t=eGApC093zZY5Ng4ENmlYug

The Gio stuff has been hashed out plenty, but the fact that Scally didn't get any field time is pretty baffling.

On the bright side, pretty amazing that among 5 teenagers playing the most minutes in the 3rd best league in the world, you have 2 Americans.  Especially when the other 3 are Bellingham who is about to command a massive transfer fee and is wanted by everyone, Musiala who was getting PT at Bayern before he was even 18 and is one of the most promising German stars in years, and Moukoko who is the youngest player to ever play for Germany in a WC and is similarly on a path for superstardom.  Amazing company.  And both are playing for clubs who will play European football next year.

I love Scally. Mature beyond his years. Capable of playing on both sides of the field. Cant argue with regular mins at BMG. Yet another GGG folly
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 16, 2023, 03:03:04 PM
I love Scally. Mature beyond his years. Capable of playing on both sides of the field. Cant argue with regular mins at BMG. Yet another GGG folly

I mean, you can't take minutes from a guy like Shaq Moore who went from La Liga to Segunda Division to MLS all before his 25th bday, even if he did completely stink in his first appearance.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 16, 2023, 07:32:07 PM
I mean, you can't take minutes from a guy like Shaq Moore who went from La Liga to Segunda Division to MLS all before his 25th bday, even if he did completely stink in his first appearance.

To be fair to a simple minded guy like ggg, Shaq is the name of a gamer. You don’t play joe over shaq
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on January 19, 2023, 09:13:50 AM
Charlotte FC defender Anton Walkes dies in boating accident

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/charlotte-fc/article271364102.html?ac_cid=DM752077&ac_bid=1901681435

Anton Walkes, a player who spent the entire 2022 season with Charlotte FC, died early on Thursday morning following a boating accident in South Florida, the club announced. He was 25.

Walkes was in critical condition after two boats crashed near Miami Marine Stadium on Wednesday afternoon, according to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. The Miami Herald reported that he was found unconscious and received CPR from Miami Fire Rescue.

Charlotte FC had arrived in Fort Lauderdale on Jan. 9 to begin a 12-day training camp to kick off its 2023 preseason.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 22, 2023, 10:23:13 AM
https://twitter.com/usmntnerd/status/1617193919581913090?s=46&t=ESTgKN9J0hfy-v2C03Qp2A

Let’s see Jordan morris do this against real salt lake
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 25, 2023, 02:02:51 PM
Reyna hits again.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on January 26, 2023, 10:04:36 AM
The USMNT housecleaning continues.
Earnie Stewart off to PSV Eindhoven.

https://sports.yahoo.com/earnie-stewart-us-soccer-usmnt-155817757.html

Big crowd last night, btw.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 26, 2023, 01:08:08 PM
The USMNT housecleaning continues.
Earnie Stewart off to PSV Eindhoven.

https://sports.yahoo.com/earnie-stewart-us-soccer-usmnt-155817757.html

Big crowd last night, btw.

Probably best for all parties, no matter how small/large their role has been in the post WC fiasco, new blood is needed.  Not overly confident that the right hires are going to be made, but it is a step in the right direction.

Side note, John Brooks now has a club again.  Always felt like a natural fit in the Bundesliga. Hope he can recover his form.
https://www.thescore.com/deu_fed/news/2557678/usmnt-outcast-john-brooks-joins-hoffenheim-from-benfica
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on January 26, 2023, 05:16:51 PM
Claudio Reyna resigns as sporting director at Austin FC. Hope he  doesn’t end up anywhere near the USMNT
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 26, 2023, 05:34:00 PM
Side note, John Brooks now has a club again.  Always felt like a natural fit in the Bundesliga. Hope he can recover his form.
https://www.thescore.com/deu_fed/news/2557678/usmnt-outcast-john-brooks-joins-hoffenheim-from-benfica

Good fit.  Solid club solid new manager who needs to reverse some bad form, and playing opportunities.  He's only 29, he's still got plenty of run left, he's played nearly full Bundesliga seasons the last 2 years, not like he's fallen off a cliff.

Claudio Reyna resigns as sporting director at Austin FC. Hope he  doesn’t end up anywhere near the USMNT

I don't see how there is any chance of that.  Steward and GGG may be gone, but he still ran very much afoul of the powers that be at the top and they are all still around.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 26, 2023, 07:23:51 PM
USSF is a complete dumpster fire right now. Totally directionless
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 26, 2023, 07:27:37 PM
USSF is a complete dumpster fire right now. Totally directionless

It’s a bad sign when state media agent Alexi lalas is critical of the state of the fed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 26, 2023, 08:58:07 PM
It’s a bad sign when state media agent Alexi lalas is critical of the state of the fed.

Don’t worry, he was still bashing Gio and his performance at BVB this week.

I didn’t used to mind Lalas, he was never my favorite but he was fine and entertaining at points.  But man he has become an ass clown
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 26, 2023, 10:16:24 PM
Don’t worry, he was still bashing Gio and his performance at BVB this week.

I didn’t used to mind Lalas, he was never my favorite but he was fine and entertaining at points.  But man he has become an ass clown

His “downfall” goes to show how many new legitimate outlets there are in this country for soccer news now. It was so sparse just five years ago that guys like Lalas could skate by on name alone with minimal insight added to the table.

There are so many better, more informative options available now that mouthpieces like Lalas can get called out for who they really are.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 27, 2023, 09:01:35 AM
Don’t worry, he was still bashing Gio and his performance at BVB this week.

I didn’t used to mind Lalas, he was never my favorite but he was fine and entertaining at points.  But man he has become an ass clown

I can honestly say that I've never met someone that liked Lalas' commentary.  The range has been "barely tolerable" to "I'll watch the telemundo broadcast with CC before I listen to him".  Honestly don't think Twellman is much better, he got his "Skip Bayless-esque" rant post T+T, and has ridden it ever since.  Stu Holden and John Strong are a very good duo that I'd gladly listen to any game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 27, 2023, 09:08:45 AM
To me Lalas dates to a time when networks thought you had to pump up the audience to be excited about soccer. And its all so very jingoistic.

Compare and contrast to NBC's EPL coverage, which doesn't have over-the-top personalities, but informative yet still entertaining coverage instead.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 27, 2023, 11:12:33 AM
Among these same lines, happy to see Kyle martino back on tv. He’s awesome
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 27, 2023, 12:29:16 PM
I can honestly say that I've never met someone that liked Lalas' commentary.  The range has been "barely tolerable" to "I'll watch the telemundo broadcast with CC before I listen to him".  Honestly don't think Twellman is much better, he got his "Skip Bayless-esque" rant post T+T, and has ridden it ever since.  Stu Holden and John Strong are a very good duo that I'd gladly listen to any game.

My "didn't mind" was certainly not an endorsement, he was just filler with an occasionally good take.

I actually like Twellman doing color on a broadcast, I think he has an enjoyable excitment to his delivery.  In studio I agree he's a bit much.

Stu is my guy.  Great perspective, retains the joy and wonder of the sport, insightful as a former player, and doesn't get sucked into tropes.  John Strong is also a fantastic PBP and has been for years, the best the US has ever produced for soccer IMO.

Totally agree about Martino too.

Compare and contrast to NBC's EPL coverage, which doesn't have over-the-top personalities, but informative yet still entertaining coverage instead.

I think its because NBC's coverage is very literally a British broadcast.  Over the top crazy pundits are a bit of a rarity there, IMO, as opposed to the norm like in the US.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 27, 2023, 12:46:02 PM
I think its because NBC's coverage is very literally a British broadcast.  Over the top crazy pundits are a bit of a rarity there, IMO, as opposed to the norm like in the US.

But my point is that there is room for that here as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 27, 2023, 01:28:16 PM
But my point is that there is room for that here as well.

Absolutely agree.  I think they do a fantastic job
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 27, 2023, 03:36:03 PM
My "didn't mind" was certainly not an endorsement, he was just filler with an occasionally good take.

I actually like Twellman doing color on a broadcast, I think he has an enjoyable excitment to his delivery.  In studio I agree he's a bit much.

Stu is my guy.  Great perspective, retains the joy and wonder of the sport, insightful as a former player, and doesn't get sucked into tropes.  John Strong is also a fantastic PBP and has been for years, the best the US has ever produced for soccer IMO.

Totally agree about Martino too.

I think its because NBC's coverage is very literally a British broadcast.  Over the top crazy pundits are a bit of a rarity there, IMO, as opposed to the norm like in the US.

And Rebecca Lowe is a hunny. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 27, 2023, 03:50:43 PM
Decided to watch the City-Arsenal Cup tie because Turner was starting in goal for Arsenal.  Figured it would be an entertaining match between the 2 top teams in the EPL.  Nope, its been absolute dog crape
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on January 27, 2023, 06:56:16 PM
Decided to watch the City-Arsenal Cup tie because Turner was starting in goal for Arsenal.  Figured it would be an entertaining match between the 2 top teams in the EPL.  Nope, its been absolute dog crape

The FA Cup matches I’ve watched have been rough this year. Fulham is still alive but they haven’t prioritized the competition at all.

For a mid-table club whose primary goal is avoiding relegation, when do you start going for it? Quarterfinals? Tough balance to strike. I hope they bring the A squad tomorrow for a fun match against Sunderland.

 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on January 28, 2023, 01:19:29 AM
Let’s go Wednesday!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 28, 2023, 07:58:58 AM
The FA Cup matches I’ve watched have been rough this year. Fulham is still alive but they haven’t prioritized the competition at all.

For a mid-table club whose primary goal is avoiding relegation, when do you start going for it? Quarterfinals? Tough balance to strike. I hope they bring the A squad tomorrow for a fun match against Sunderland.

I don't really follow soccer, but I've been keeping an eye on Sunderland since watching Sunderland 'Til I Die on Netflix. They did a good job on that show making me care about the team and the fans. So, to the extent I have a team that I follow, I guess they would be it.

Anyway, I put a couple of bucks on them for today's game. I figured I was just burning money, but ...

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/9y81i7SFuzhW8/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47jqphvk7tn7mqy1lzk7tu1ocgiu9b6u16x437n30o&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 28, 2023, 08:08:45 AM
Sounds like Weston to Leeds is done
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 29, 2023, 12:32:28 PM
Sexy wrexy
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 29, 2023, 12:53:59 PM
Sexy wrexy

My bad
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 30, 2023, 09:58:00 AM
I'm so torn on Wrexham.

On one hand, its really fun, great theater, and its cool to see a beaten down rust belt sort of town have some success.

On the other hand, after watching the series (which I really did enjoy), its very apparent that the whole purchase was all a work and the show was pitched and created before a team was purchased, and the whole organic Rob/Ryan friendship was a farce.  That being said, I don't doubt their very real enthusiasm, especially Mcelhenney, he seems like a pretty genuine dude..

That being said, with the Hollywood money, their underdog status is a little overdone, they are paying a lot of dudes League One level money and their roster reflects the talent of that.  Its still impressive they took a team to the limit that is probably returning to the EPL next year.  But its like a League One Barnesly or Wycombe did it, not Boreham Wood.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on January 30, 2023, 10:23:59 AM
I'm so torn on Wrexham.

On one hand, its really fun, great theater, and its cool to see a beaten down rust belt sort of town have some success.

On the other hand, after watching the series (which I really did enjoy), its very apparent that the whole purchase was all a work and the show was pitched and created before a team was purchased, and the whole organic Rob/Ryan friendship was a farce.  That being said, I don't doubt their very real enthusiasm, especially Mcelhenney, he seems like a pretty genuine dude..

That being said, with the Hollywood money, their underdog status is a little overdone, they are paying a lot of dudes League One level money and their roster reflects the talent of that.  Its still impressive they took a team to the limit that is probably returning to the EPL next year.  But its like a League One Barnesly or Wycombe did it, not Boreham Wood.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but from watching the show, it seemed Rob and Ryan were pretty upfront from the get-go that their primary interest/motivation was creating content. I think the "we've fallen in love with this hardscrabble town and its people" came about after the fact, and seemed fairly genuine (though that could be a work, I suppose).
As for the money ... it seemed that was the point as well. I don't the showrunners were ever misleading about the fact that they intended to pour money into the club to earn promotion. After all, they had TikTok and Expedia on their kits, while most of their National League peers have the likes of a funeral home chain and local bus charter service.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 30, 2023, 11:11:55 AM
Maybe I'm misremembering, but from watching the show, it seemed Rob and Ryan were pretty upfront from the get-go that their primary interest/motivation was creating content. I think the "we've fallen in love with this hardscrabble town and its people" came about after the fact, and seemed fairly genuine (though that could be a work, I suppose).

Sort of. I'm just saying there was nothing organic or spontaneous about the creation of the whole situation, and the show still tried to sell that.  I like Ryan Reynolds, but I don't think there is anything genuine about him, he always feels like he's playing a character.

As for the money ... it seemed that was the point as well. I don't the showrunners were ever misleading about the fact that they intended to pour money into the club to earn promotion. After all, they had TikTok and Expedia on their kits, while most of their National League peers have the likes of a funeral home chain and local bus charter service.

Yea, its more the media that still tries to pretend they are just like every National League club, just with famous owners.

But at the same time, you still have all the scenes of Rob and Ryan stressing over money and "can we swing this $150K here, its tight" knowing they have deep enough pockets to fund the team's annual budget 5x over, and thats not including "non-Wrexham" revenue from the club through the show that comes in each year.

Again, I really enjoy the show and still pull for Wrexham cause documenting the clubs rise, even to League One or the Championship, would be incredibly entertaining from a BTS perspective.  Its Sunderland Til I Die with even more engaging personalities.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 30, 2023, 12:02:15 PM
I'm so torn on Wrexham.

On one hand, its really fun, great theater, and its cool to see a beaten down rust belt sort of town have some success.

On the other hand, after watching the series (which I really did enjoy), its very apparent that the whole purchase was all a work and the show was pitched and created before a team was purchased, and the whole organic Rob/Ryan friendship was a farce.  That being said, I don't doubt their very real enthusiasm, especially Mcelhenney, he seems like a pretty genuine dude..

That being said, with the Hollywood money, their underdog status is a little overdone, they are paying a lot of dudes League One level money and their roster reflects the talent of that.  Its still impressive they took a team to the limit that is probably returning to the EPL next year.  But its like a League One Barnesly or Wycombe did it, not Boreham Wood.

Slight correction...they may return to the EFL next year. The EPL is still four years away.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 30, 2023, 12:22:01 PM
Slight correction...they may return to the EFL next year. The EPL is still four years away.

I was referring to Sheffield United who is comfortably in second in the Championship, for automatic promotion.  And Wrexham took them to the limit.  Obviously Wrexham are far off.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 30, 2023, 12:24:24 PM
OK...my bad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 06, 2023, 09:03:52 AM
Jesse March available to manage the USMNT now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 06, 2023, 09:16:32 AM
Jesse March available to manage the USMNT now.

Pass
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on February 06, 2023, 10:26:59 AM
Jesse March available to manage the USMNT now.

Both Leipzig and Leeds said they would give him time. Both cut him off at the knees.

Every new hire is told they will get run but interesting to see who is actually given leeway and who is not.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on February 06, 2023, 10:35:31 AM
Both Leipzig and Leeds said they would give him time. Both cut him off at the knees.

Every new hire is told they will get run but interesting to see who is actually given leeway and who is not.

I think it's weird - or perhaps unforgiving - to bring in 3 starters this transfer window and then not give him time to integrate them and see the results.

Especially after saving them from relegation last season.

Is there something we don't know?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on February 06, 2023, 10:43:13 AM
Both Leipzig and Leeds said they would give him time. Both cut him off at the knees.

Every new hire is told they will get run but interesting to see who is actually given leeway and who is not.

The Leipzig situation was a joke.

I see it both ways with Leeds, but I think the hook was a bit premature.  They've been playing A LOT better than their results have shown.  Their lack of finishing is puzzling, but Bamford isn't a quality EPL striker.  Their backline is awful and Championship quality.  That should have been shored up in the window, which you could say is on Marsch, but then again Leeds are one of the lowest spenders over the recent period, so not sure what else he could do if they aren't going to spend.

Also, people keep pointing to it needing to be done cause they have Man Utd coming up.  There is currently 9 points separating 12th and 20th, with nearly half the season left.  3 of their next 4 matches after the United fixtures are against teams in the bottom 5.  They could get zilch out of the 2 against United and be just fine.

Either way, I actually agree he shouldn't be the USMNT pick at this point, but I think he should be snatched up in Europe pretty soon.  He'd be a great pick for a Championship club with promotion aspirations or a lower Bundesliga club.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on February 07, 2023, 09:06:26 AM
Odds ManCity faces any real consequences here?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12804623/man-city-premier-league-charges-explained-what-are-they-what-could-punishment-be-whats-the-timescale

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 07, 2023, 09:37:41 AM
Odds ManCity faces any real consequences here?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12804623/man-city-premier-league-charges-explained-what-are-they-what-could-punishment-be-whats-the-timescale


The only thing really consequential would be a demotion. Could that happen? It might because with so much new money coming into the PL, like the Saudis up in Newcastle, they may want to use City as an example.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on February 07, 2023, 10:01:03 AM
Define "real consequences".  I think a record setting fine will be the bare minimum.  I could very well see a 12-month transfer ban.  I think relegation or after-the-fact stripping of titles are unlikely. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on February 07, 2023, 10:52:29 AM
I think it's weird - or perhaps unforgiving - to bring in 3 starters this transfer window and then not give him time to integrate them and see the results.

Especially after saving them from relegation last season.

Is there something we don't know?

After following English soccer for nearly 25 years now I think it's just down to mob rule. The supporters will always be irrational but eventually the braying gets to the pundit class on TV so they have drama to talk about which leads to the game crew going all in which leads to the cloud over every interaction with anyone associated with the club. Owners just give in and cut ties. Easiest and simplest way to relieve pressure.


Either way, I actually agree he shouldn't be the USMNT pick at this point, but I think he should be snatched up in Europe pretty soon.  He'd be a great pick for a Championship club with promotion aspirations or a lower Bundesliga club.

Stuttgart showed an immense amount of patience with Matarazzo who yo-yo'd between 1. and 2. Bundesliga but eventually cut the cord a month ago. He's already got another Bundesliga job.

Not specifically for Stuttgart but Marsch ending up with a club like that which would give him that time to implement system and work out kinks does seem best suited to the bottom end of that league.

The manager in Marsch is just fine. The narrative around Marsch is an anchor around his neck.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 07, 2023, 11:13:39 AM
Define "real consequences".  I think a record setting fine will be the bare minimum.  I could very well see a 12-month transfer ban.  I think relegation or after-the-fact stripping of titles are unlikely.

£5000 fine and Preston North End gets relegated.

2 things against City:  they can't appeal to the CAS and there is no time limit for the Prem to bring charges, unlike UEFA.

Kinda crazy that both City and Pool could be looking for new managers soon.  (I think Klopp is done after this year.)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on February 07, 2023, 11:25:03 AM
£5000 fine and Preston North End gets relegated.

2 things against City:  they can't appeal to the CAS and there is no time limit for the Prem to bring charges, unlike UEFA.

Kinda crazy that both City and Pool could be looking for new managers soon.  (I think Klopp is done after this year.)

They can't appeal to CAS because the Swiss company has no jurisdiction.  They can appeal though.  I would also replace time limit with stature of limitations.  We also don't know how severe the alleged violations were because the court didn't even look into them in 2020 once it was determined they were outside the aforementioned statute of limitations.  Another interesting tidbit is that there is no timetable for when this could be resolved.  It could be finished this season, it could take several years.

From what I've read thus far, it seems like the most severe it will get is a one time points deduction for whatever season is underway.  As much as the League wants to make an example of City, they don't want to kick them out because of the revenue they bring.  For reference, Juve were just deducted 15 points (although that was by a completely different governing body), and Derby County have recently had a 21 point deduction. I would imagine that any deductions would be significant enough to completely remove them from European contention for the season, but they would not be serious relegation contenders.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 07, 2023, 12:21:09 PM
They can't appeal to CAS because the Swiss company has no jurisdiction.  They can appeal though.  I would also replace time limit with stature of limitations.  We also don't know how severe the alleged violations were because the court didn't even look into them in 2020 once it was determined they were outside the aforementioned statute of limitations.  Another interesting tidbit is that there is no timetable for when this could be resolved.  It could be finished this season, it could take several years.

From what I've read thus far, it seems like the most severe it will get is a one time points deduction for whatever season is underway.  As much as the League wants to make an example of City, they don't want to kick them out because of the revenue they bring.  For reference, Juve were just deducted 15 points (although that was by a completely different governing body), and Derby County have recently had a 21 point deduction. I would imagine that any deductions would be significant enough to completely remove them from European contention for the season, but they would not be serious relegation contenders.

A 15 pt reduction would still have City ahead of Liverpool.   🤣
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 07, 2023, 02:07:36 PM
Wrexham v Sheffield United in the fourth round replay in the FA Cup. SHU dominating possession, but had Wrex simply connects a couple passes in the attacking third, they may have a chance. They like the long ball counter after drawing SHU deep in their defensive third. Never seen the show, but admittedly I’m feeling the Wrexham buzz watching the game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on February 07, 2023, 04:16:30 PM
Wrexham v Sheffield United in the fourth round replay in the FA Cup. SHU dominating possession, but had Wrex simply connects a couple passes in the attacking third, they may have a chance. They like the long ball counter after drawing SHU deep in their defensive third. Never seen the show, but admittedly I’m feeling the Wrexham buzz watching the game.

About as brutal of a finish that you can have for Wrexham, yikes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 07, 2023, 04:36:43 PM
About as brutal of a finish that you can have for Wrexham, yikes.

Better Sheffield than Spurs to go down to the wire against wrexham.  ;D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 07, 2023, 06:25:03 PM
About as brutal of a finish that you can have for Wrexham, yikes.

Brutal
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on February 16, 2023, 04:13:13 PM
T-Mobile announced today that customers will receive the new Apple MLS Season Pass for free:

https://www.t-mobile.com/news/offers/t-mobile-customers-score-mls-season-pass-on-the-apple-tv-app-on-us
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on February 17, 2023, 04:46:03 PM
Indy Eleven $1 Billion development, including 20k stadium:

https://www.ibj.com/articles/plans-moving-forward-for-1b-eleven-park-project


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 21, 2023, 03:39:53 PM
Liverpool.    :P :P :P
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on February 21, 2023, 03:44:47 PM
Awful.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on February 24, 2023, 03:02:38 PM
El Tráfico has been canceled for tomorrow due to Pasadena weather. 73k plus was expected. That’s too bad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on February 27, 2023, 09:57:25 AM
Jurgen Klinsmann is your new South Korea national team coach.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on February 27, 2023, 04:00:24 PM
Marcin Oleksy officially wins the Puskas Award.

https://twitter.com/FIFAWorldCup/status/1630305913889255424?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1630305913889255424%7Ctwgr%5E3dbb166d97b379df7b35030bae31c95e6266e0bb%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportingnews.com%2Fus%2Fsoccer%2Fnews%2Fmarcin-oleksy-puskas-goal-amputee-fifa-award%2Fso0xg8smoedvfuiyi7wwmj2h
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 05, 2023, 01:18:32 PM
One step forward, two steps back for United. Very much enjoyed watching that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on March 05, 2023, 03:01:57 PM
One step forward, two steps back for United. Very much enjoyed watching that.

Absolute thrashing
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on March 05, 2023, 05:32:08 PM
First home game for stlCITY worked out pretty well:

https://twitter.com/manuelveth/status/1632194180108648448?s=46&t=2yq492pK71mdOp8w378Aiw
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: cheebs09 on March 05, 2023, 05:44:39 PM
First home game for stlCITY worked out pretty well:

https://twitter.com/manuelveth/status/1632194180108648448?s=46&t=2yq492pK71mdOp8w378Aiw

#bestfansinfutbol
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on March 05, 2023, 06:05:32 PM
#bestfansinfutbol

They should do well hosting USWNT vs Ireland next month.

I also like the new Houston stadium renovations and some of the other things they are doing there with the Dash and Dynamo:

https://twitter.com/bayoucitysoccer/status/1625926235246166018?s=46&t=2yq492pK71mdOp8w378Aiw

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on March 13, 2023, 01:35:51 PM
The Reynas don't seem like a nice couple.


https://twitter.com/BonaguraESPN/status/1635340812744802304
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 13, 2023, 02:29:20 PM
The Reynas don't seem like a nice couple.


https://twitter.com/BonaguraESPN/status/1635340812744802304

I was on their side in terms of the whole Greggg vs Gio playing time debacle, but holy hell have they progressively looked more and more toxic in the process.  The ultimate unintentional Wile E Coyote lighting a stick of dynamite to have it explode in your face in terms of public perception.

That Danielle Reyna quote about sneakers sounds like a fake quote someone on Twitter would come up making fun of them.  My goodness.

Man, US Soccer is an unmitigated disaster of an org
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on March 13, 2023, 02:36:03 PM
I was on their side in terms of the whole Greggg vs Gio playing time debacle, but holy hell have they progressively looked more and more toxic in the process.  The ultimate unintentional Wile E Coyote lighting a stick of dynamite to have it explode in your face in terms of public perception.

That Danielle Reyna quote about sneakers sounds like a fake quote someone on Twitter would come up making fun of them.  My goodness.

Man, US Soccer is an unmitigated disaster of an org

The Reyna's look terrible. GGG still seems vindictive for his treatment of Gio.

Morale of the story here is to move outside of the tiny insular community of US Soccer for the next series of hires.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 13, 2023, 04:39:43 PM
The Reynas don't seem like a nice couple.


https://twitter.com/BonaguraESPN/status/1635340812744802304

I thought the biggest revelation was that Berhalter very much assaulted his girlfriend/current wife.

His statement admitted only that he "kicked her in the legs" amidst a lapse in judgement but we learn he dropped her to the ground, kicked her twice, and was seemingly only stopped because a stranger tackled him.

Rosalind's first port of call was Danielle (soon to be) Reyna, Berhalter told his family and went to counseling, and this foursome was forged in drama and ceased in drama over the course of three decades. Bizarre.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 13, 2023, 05:40:18 PM
The Reyna's look terrible. GGG still seems vindictive for his treatment of Gio.

Morale of the story here is to move outside of the tiny insular community of US Soccer for the next series of hires.

Yea, Ive seen some people online try to frame this as a win for GGG, which is strange.  The Reynas are nasty business, but that's not to mean GGG looks any less terrible as a manager, or less faulty in the past incident in question.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 13, 2023, 10:12:05 PM
They encapsulate the "horrible soccer parents" perfectly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 14, 2023, 09:20:16 AM
They encapsulate the "horrible soccer parents" perfectly.

They do, however, after reading the full report I think they were maligned unfairly in the beginning.

The USSF friendly media painted it as "blackmail" and "extortion" on the part of the Reyna's and casually have referred to it as that since the story broke whereas the report shows it was nothing of the sort.

Terribly overbearing and obnoxious and irresponsible and trashy but that's an area a vast majority of parents have lived their lives in during the course of a child's career. But it wasn't extortion. It wasn't blackmail.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 16, 2023, 10:12:16 AM
https://twitter.com/usmntonly/status/1636355253955067904?t=GNVdM4JGO1qvFh1QpeevVw&s=19

👀
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 16, 2023, 10:41:51 AM
https://twitter.com/usmntonly/status/1636355253955067904?t=GNVdM4JGO1qvFh1QpeevVw&s=19

👀

He speaks from experience given he, and his father, have been there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 17, 2023, 08:28:37 PM
https://twitter.com/MattDoyle76/status/1636730855803559936?t=vjgvWnLiIwWBFFBHx6sFHg&s=19

👀
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 18, 2023, 01:39:52 PM
https://twitter.com/MattDoyle76/status/1636730855803559936?t=vjgvWnLiIwWBFFBHx6sFHg&s=19

👀

Doyle is another MLS/USMNT homer.  Hell, he said GGG is easily a better coach than Bob Bradley.  I don’t love Bob Bradley but that’s just silly.

Pulisic’s comments were interesting, but the whole interview was more diplomatic and generally supportive of the USMNT than it was some ringing endorsement of GGG.  I’ve seen people spinning his “we don’t need a rebuild” comment and don’t need to bring a bunch of guys in as saying he supports things as they are, but I don’t see it as that.  I think it’s very much resembling the idea that the USMNT is in a great place talent wise, and now needs a proper world class manager to take it to the next level.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on March 18, 2023, 02:23:12 PM
Doyle is another MLS/USMNT homer.  Hell, he said GGG is easily a better coach than Bob Bradley.  I don’t love Bob Bradley but that’s just silly.

Pulisic’s comments were interesting, but the whole interview was more diplomatic and generally supportive of the USMNT than it was some ringing endorsement of GGG.  I’ve seen people spinning his “we don’t need a rebuild” comment and don’t need to bring a bunch of guys in as saying he supports things as they are, but I don’t see it as that.  I think it’s very much resembling the idea that the USMNT is in a great place talent wise, and now needs a proper world class manager to take it to the next level.

I’d laugh in your face ten years ago if you told me what I’m about to say but Viera or Henry are great candidates for the next cycle. Both speak English, have managed in MLS and are far outside the current slurp fest that is the USSF and associated media members.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 18, 2023, 04:00:17 PM
Doyle is another MLS/USMNT homer.  Hell, he said GGG is easily a better coach than Bob Bradley.  I don’t love Bob Bradley but that’s just silly.

Pulisic’s comments were interesting, but the whole interview was more diplomatic and generally supportive of the USMNT than it was some ringing endorsement of GGG.  I’ve seen people spinning his “we don’t need a rebuild” comment and don’t need to bring a bunch of guys in as saying he supports things as they are, but I don’t see it as that.  I think it’s very much resembling the idea that the USMNT is in a great place talent wise, and now needs a proper world class manager to take it to the next level.

I was just sharing for puli perspective on GGG. Not Matt's interpretation. Thought it was interesting
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 18, 2023, 05:12:54 PM
I was just sharing for puli perspective on GGG. Not Matt's interpretation. Thought it was interesting

Fair enough.  Just more pointing out how funny that the usual honks are using Puli statements/Reyna’s looking like asshats to suddenly try and absolve GGG of being subpar.

I’d laugh in your face ten years ago if you told me what I’m about to say but Viera or Henry are great candidates for the next cycle. Both speak English, have managed in MLS and are far outside the current slurp fest that is the USSF and associated media members.

First off, hell no to Henry.  He makes GGG look like Sir Alec.  He was bad at Montreal and terrible at Monaco.

Viera is a bit more interesting, but I don’t know about his really methodical possession style.  He also has a tendency to bunker down.  Palace was positively anemic his last few games.  Which gives me nightmares about former USMNT performances with no scoring
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on March 21, 2023, 02:24:03 PM
Fair enough.  Just more pointing out how funny that the usual honks are using Puli statements/Reyna’s looking like asshats to suddenly try and absolve GGG of being subpar.

First off, hell no to Henry.  He makes GGG look like Sir Alec.  He was bad at Montreal and terrible at Monaco.

Viera is a bit more interesting, but I don’t know about his really methodical possession style.  He also has a tendency to bunker down.  Palace was positively anemic his last few games.  Which gives me nightmares about former USMNT performances with no scoring

As the core of this program progress in their careers, I believe it will be more and more difficult for coaches like Anthony Hudson, GGG, Bruce Arena etc. to connect to players who grew up playing in Europe's elite academies and for top tier coaches. I said it during the early days of Gio gate, but I couldn't imagine Gio who plays for one of the top younger managers in Europe getting chastised tactically by a guy who couldn’t cut it at a club in the Swedish second teir.

Tactically I agree both are no where near the elites in the game, however neither was Klinsmann with Germany. Hire someone like LOW to manage the tactics and let the head man manage the egos and bring in the best possible players without feeling obligated to select a couple of MLS players. The respect level would be huge amongst the players for either Henry or Viera and recruitment would be massive - Hello Balogun, this is Thierry.

To counter your tactical argument, GGG considered himself a tactician and tried to force a very difficult way of playing on this team and produced some of the most negative soccer I’ve seen at times. International soccer is getting the 11 best players on the field and get them to play with a collective spirit. I think both of those guys can produce that spirit, moreso Henry then Viera.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 23, 2023, 05:46:40 PM
Nagelsmann out, tuchel in at Bayern.

Bayern stats this season:

• Bundesliga: 25 games, 15 wins, 7 draw, 3 losses.
• UCL: 8 games, 8 wins, 0 losses.
• DFB Pokal: 3 games, 3 wins, 0 losses.
• DFL Supercup: win.

goals - 112
goals conceded - 34

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 26, 2023, 06:16:51 PM
Conte out
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on March 27, 2023, 08:17:58 AM
Writing had been on the wall for weeks, just figuring out compensation behind closed doors.  I think Nagelsmann becoming available sped the process along immensely.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 27, 2023, 09:56:02 AM
Some clubs are fated to consistently provide laughs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on March 27, 2023, 08:04:03 PM
Pepi le Pow
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on March 28, 2023, 09:37:58 AM
Writing had been on the wall for weeks, just figuring out compensation behind closed doors.  I think Nagelsmann becoming available sped the process along immensely.

I'm wondering if there is something going on behind the scenes with Nagelsmann.  I know its Bayern, but that was messy even from them.  And they aren't ones to dump a news drop on a random day during the International Break like that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on April 01, 2023, 08:41:31 AM
As much as City Liverpool has been The Game the last few years, this one kinda disappointed. First half was great in terms of entertainment value. Second, not so much, although City had a few beautiful team goals. Liverpool need serious reinforcements in the midfield and I don’t think they’re going to get Bellingham.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 02, 2023, 03:30:14 PM
Chelsea onto their 3rd manager this year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 21, 2023, 04:48:04 PM
COYG
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 21, 2023, 05:40:59 PM
Kinda think Arsenal is managed by Wojo.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 21, 2023, 08:35:21 PM
Kinda think Arsenal is managed by Wojo.

Nah.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 21, 2023, 09:56:16 PM
Kinda think Arsenal is managed by Wojo.

Feels apt. Right now City is a freight train in league and Arsenal is a deer tied to the tracks. Wednesday really feels like the last chance for Arsenal. Lose that and it's all over but the crying.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 21, 2023, 10:35:39 PM
Kinda think Arsenal is managed by Wojo.

Arteta is Wojo with a touch of Buzz.

-former player.
-long time assistant to a legend
-little charisma, what is there is forced and learned from a "leadership book.

Buzz touch:  letting known rapists play for the team, with no consequences.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on April 22, 2023, 10:49:42 AM
Arteta is Wojo with a touch of Buzz.

-former player.
-long time assistant to a legend
-little charisma, what is there is forced and learned from a "leadership book.

Buzz touch:  letting known rapists play for the team, with no consequences.

2/3 wrong but trying in life is the important lesson.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:26 PM
https://twitter.com/barstoolsports/status/1649862980585095169?t=vEQyTYm8XJ8gs34B09F9Zw&s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 22, 2023, 08:08:43 PM
2/3 wrong but trying in life is the important lesson.

Which two are wrong
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 23, 2023, 09:14:20 AM
Spurs are done.

Time to start over
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on April 23, 2023, 08:02:04 PM
Southampton director of football operations Matt Crocker is set to be named the U.S. Soccer Federation’s sporting director, multiple sources familiar with the hiring process told The Athletic on Sunday. Those sources requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the hire.

https://theathletic.com/4442343/2023/04/23/ussf-matt-crocker-sporting-director?source=user-shared-article
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 24, 2023, 03:57:00 AM
Southampton director of football operations Matt Crocker is set to be named the U.S. Soccer Federation’s sporting director, multiple sources familiar with the hiring process told The Athletic on Sunday. Those sources requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the hire.

https://theathletic.com/4442343/2023/04/23/ussf-matt-crocker-sporting-director?source=user-shared-article

I appreciate the outside the box nature of the hire for once.  On one hand, I dont LOVE hiring a guy who was helming a club that has finished 15th, 15th, and now will be relegated over the last 3 years he was there.  But at the same time, he has done good work with the England FA and youth teams and when he was running the academy at Southhampton, they CHURNED out elite talent that moved on.  Both those are probably more important for his role at US Soccer than what he did for the big club

https://twitter.com/barstoolsports/status/1649862980585095169?t=vEQyTYm8XJ8gs34B09F9Zw&s=19

The Wrexham story is really fun and Ive enjoyed it, but the only thing that makes me slightly cynical is they are basically PSG without the oil money.  The 5 highest paid players in the National League all play for Wrexham, making 2-3 times what most players in the league make.  So they've acquired and paid for a League Two/borderline League One side based on salaries but its still framed as little humble Wrexham.

Of course the town and the club don't care, which is awesome, so good for them.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 24, 2023, 05:24:45 AM
The Wrexham story is really fun and Ive enjoyed it, but the only thing that makes me slightly cynical is they are basically PSG without the oil money.  The 5 highest paid players in the National League all play for Wrexham, making 2-3 times what most players in the league make.  So they've acquired and paid for a League Two/borderline League One side based on salaries but its still framed as little humble Wrexham.

Of course the town and the club don't care, which is awesome, so good for them.

They can probably do that one more time, but once you get to League One, there are good players and other well-funded teams. A number of teams currently in League One have been in the Premier League. Derby, Portsmouth, Charlton, and others have been in the top flight. It will be interesting to see what happens once they start coming up against other clubs that are similarly funded.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on April 24, 2023, 06:41:31 AM
They can probably do that one more time, but once you get to League One, there are good players and other well-funded teams. A number of teams currently in League One have been in the Premier League. Derby, Portsmouth, Charlton, and others have been in the top flight. It will be interesting to see what happens once they start coming up against other clubs that are similarly funded.

Exactly. Also, aren’t there more laid out financial rules like salary caps and fair play in League Two vs National League?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 24, 2023, 07:02:57 AM
Exactly. Also, aren’t there more laid out financial rules like salary caps and fair play in League Two vs National League?

Yes, and they are monitored and enforced more regularly when you're in the Football League but below the Premier League. I support Reading, and we went from safely staying in the Championship to the relegation zone in a matter of days because of a 6-point penalty assessed earlier this month with just a handful of games left in the season. Now RFC is in a position where they have to take six points in their final two games to feel safe.

That said, it could make for some great storylines. Wrexham storms to the top of League 2, seems on the verge of promotion or at least playoffs, only for a mid-April points deduction to take them out of the running because Rob & Ryan tried to just spend their way up the table like they did in the National League.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 24, 2023, 07:19:34 AM
This strikes me as some sort of St Louis rule about doing it the right way. 

How else are you getting out of the worst league if getting better players isn’t an option?  Wouldn’t the teams that were just relegated to national league also have league 2 salaries too?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 24, 2023, 07:31:21 AM
This strikes me as some sort of St Louis rule about doing it the right way. 

How else are you getting out of the worst league if getting better players isn’t an option?  Wouldn’t the teams that were just relegated to national league also have league 2 salaries too?

I don't have any qualms about doing it the "right way" other than the whole narrative is elevating this beleaguered town and their plucky underdog club.  And its not that they are a well run club who is out-evaluating and out-managing others, its that they are literally buying promotion.

And yes, but its not just League 2 salaries.  The average weekly wage in the National League is £1,500 on the higher side.  The average weekly wage in League 2 is around £2,220-2,500.  If you make over £3,000 a week in League 2, you're in the top 30-40 salaries in the whole league...Wrexham is paying half their starting 11 over £3,000 a week.  Their top 3 guys (Foster, Mullin, and Palmer) all make over £4,000 a week.  The only people making that much in League 2, outside of 1-2 guys, are on loan from a Premier League or Championship club and the big club is paying their wages.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 24, 2023, 07:46:04 AM
This strikes me as some sort of St Louis rule about doing it the right way. 

How else are you getting out of the worst league if getting better players isn’t an option?  Wouldn’t the teams that were just relegated to national league also have league 2 salaries too?


The problem is that owners were signing players well beyond their projected revenue, and well it failed to work, were saddling teams with debt and they would free fall down the league pyramid.

Salary caps would be nice but it's not happening.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 24, 2023, 07:53:28 AM
I don't have any qualms about doing it the "right way" other than the whole narrative is elevating this beleaguered town and their plucky underdog club.  And its not that they are a well run club who is out-evaluating and out-managing others, its that they are literally buying promotion.

I guess I'm not offended by the narrative since it was literally the situation you describe at the beginning of their first season of ownership (and prior to - its only been 2 years).  The 360 documentary wrap around this that also revealed the club strategy was to lose money and pay for players capable of playing at the higher level to get promotion.  I even think they talk about how they will monetize it beyond the gate/club.  I don't think its being represented as the owners being some sort managerial genius or anything but a fun resurrection story for this town. 

Now they have an investible asset and can potentially put more into talent.  It's sports so buying talent usually works.  Also its sports so building an eventual team sale price is the model to make money.

I'm not trying to be argumentative as much as just say why it doesn't bother me.  It's very consistent in a lot of ways for me. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 24, 2023, 09:32:22 AM
Teams in the championship and prem need to “abide” by FFP (ask any of the big 6 how easy it is to cook the books to avoid any penalties), but there is no hard league wide salary cap for league 1/2.

Teams in 1/2 can only spend a certain percentage of their total profit on player salaries.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 24, 2023, 09:33:52 AM
This strikes me as some sort of St Louis rule about doing it the right way. 

How else are you getting out of the worst league if getting better players isn’t an option?  Wouldn’t the teams that were just relegated to national league also have league 2 salaries too?

That’s the rub about relegation. Most of your best players opt to leave the club after dropping down a division. Which is why it’s so detrimental to some teams which we’re not built for relegation scraps (hello Everton).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 24, 2023, 09:46:21 AM
That’s the rub about relegation. Most of your best players opt to leave the club after dropping down a division. Which is why it’s so detrimental to some teams which we’re not built for relegation scraps (hello Everton).


Apparently if Everton is relegated, they have a $150 million loan that's due immediately.  Obviously that will need to be refinanced, but there is a great fear they may face something similar to what Sunderland has gone through the last decade.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 24, 2023, 09:51:18 AM

Apparently if Everton is relegated, they have a $150 million loan that's due immediately.  Obviously that will need to be refinanced, but there is a great fear they may face something similar to what Sunderland has gone through the last decade.

Yep - it’s too bad for their fans. Incredibly loyal and well run club until a total buffoon takes over and recklessly spends money to the point where they’re at now.

If they go down, most of their players will leave because they’re high paid premiership level guys and as you said, will encounter immediate crippling debt. They’ll receive maybe half of the debt due in parachute payments, but that means they won’t be able to spend much on new championship level recruitment.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on April 24, 2023, 10:02:14 AM
It's a fun story. Especially for those of us who got into the sport as adults, seeing those two get hooked and be so emotionally invested is relatable.

What I'm more curious about is now that they got the Hollywood ending, how do they keep the international interest up to keep those other revenue sources flowing?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 24, 2023, 10:15:52 AM
They didn't get the "Hollywood ending".  Promotion to League 2 is the bare minimum that should happen in that situation with that financial investment.  They were 2 levels above in League One less than 20 years ago and played in the Championship in the 80s.  All before they were a well funded entertainment project.  Still plenty of storyline to go.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on April 24, 2023, 11:43:22 AM
Yes, and they are monitored and enforced more regularly when you're in the Football League but below the Premier League. I support Reading, and we went from safely staying in the Championship to the relegation zone in a matter of days because of a 6-point penalty assessed earlier this month with just a handful of games left in the season. Now RFC is in a position where they have to take six points in their final two games to feel safe.

Didn't see what happened, but absolutely stunning for QPR to pull out a win at Burnley after the form they've been in for all of 2023. Have probably saved themselves from relegation, which is still a massive drop from how they spent the first chunk of the season in promotion contention.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on April 24, 2023, 11:49:42 AM
They didn't get the "Hollywood ending".  Promotion to League 2 is the bare minimum that should happen in that situation with that financial investment.

They did for this season, and the corresponding documentary. The thing that exploded the interest in the club.

I don't know if that's going to continue long term, which is why I'm curious to see if they can hang on to it.

I agree with you re: the investment. It would have been a colossal failure to not achieve promotion.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 24, 2023, 12:07:15 PM
Stellini out. Mason in.

#spurs
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on April 24, 2023, 12:08:08 PM
Stellini out. Mason in.

#spurs

#levymustgo
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 24, 2023, 01:04:59 PM
#levymustgo

Twitter rumors today say Levy open to $80m bid this summer for Kane.

If Kane leaves, burn the whole thing down
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on April 24, 2023, 01:08:36 PM
Levy has been objectively bad for a while now.  His string of poor decisions may finally catch up to him now that the fans have turned.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 24, 2023, 01:08:45 PM
Twitter rumors today say Levy open to $80m bid this summer for Kane.

If Kane leaves, burn the whole thing down

That seems astoundingly low for an English player
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on April 24, 2023, 01:13:32 PM
Twitter rumors today say Levy open to $80m bid this summer for Kane.

If Kane leaves, burn the whole thing down

They really need to burn it down. It's not working.
Sell Kane, Lloris, Son, Hojbjerg, Dier, Davies, Richarlisson, Royal, Sanchez.
Keep Romero, Kulu, Porro, Skipp, Spence, Betancur, Sarr, Sessegnon, Bissouma.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 24, 2023, 01:14:44 PM
Crocker info:

https://twitter.com/WillParchman/status/1650346650454446082?t=mKNT2LEvME4A49XoxfmUMQ&s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 24, 2023, 01:15:44 PM
They really need to burn it down. It's not working.
Sell Kane, Lloris, Son, Hojbjerg, Dier, Davies, Richarlisson, Royal, Sanchez.
Keep Romero, Kulu, Porro, Skipp, Spence, Betancur, Sarr, Sessegnon, Bissouma.

Agreed.

But that's not what Levy will do. Especially if he can't get "fair value" (in his opinion) for his sales
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 24, 2023, 01:25:53 PM
They really need to burn it down. It's not working.
Sell Kane, Lloris, Son, Hojbjerg, Dier, Davies, Richarlisson, Royal, Sanchez.
Keep Romero, Kulu, Porro, Skipp, Spence, Betancur, Sarr, Sessegnon, Bissouma.

Don't forget the dead weight loan army.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 24, 2023, 05:11:32 PM
Didn't see what happened, but absolutely stunning for QPR to pull out a win at Burnley after the form they've been in for all of 2023. Have probably saved themselves from relegation, which is still a massive drop from how they spent the first chunk of the season in promotion contention.

Yeah, that combined with Reading pulling level against Coventry only to ship it right back really put my Royals in a tight spot. The next three teams up the table all have a game in hand and a goal differential edge. The last two are both relegation 6-pointers, so it's not over yet, but those 6 penalized points are just crushing right now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on April 26, 2023, 04:11:02 PM
Well, that's the Prem decided then isn't it?  At least the relegation battle looks entertaining.  Will laugh so hard when Everton go down.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 27, 2023, 06:05:46 AM
Well, that's the Prem decided then isn't it?  At least the relegation battle looks entertaining.  Will laugh so hard when Everton go down.

Eh, probably.  If Arsenal wins out and City stumbles at all it could be interesting.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 27, 2023, 08:21:49 AM
Eh, probably.  If Arsenal wins out and City stumbles at all it could be interesting.

It's going to take a lot of stumbling from City to make it interesting. Not happening
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 27, 2023, 08:23:32 AM
It's going to take a lot of stumbling from City to make it interesting. Not happening

I know City is the superior team, but no one thought Arsenal was going to get caught at the halfway point.

Crazier things have happened.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 27, 2023, 08:29:08 AM
I know City is the superior team, but no one thought Arsenal was going to get caught at the halfway point.

Crazier things have happened.

Two games in hand and Fulham at Craven Cottage as their most challenging game in the next few. The prem is theirs. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 27, 2023, 08:35:23 AM
Two games in hand and Fulham at Craven Cottage as their most challenging game in the next few. The prem is theirs.

Oh, just hand them the trophy now and forget the rest of the matches then.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 27, 2023, 09:25:38 AM
Oh, just hand them the trophy now and forget the rest of the matches then.

Thats basically where things are at now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on April 27, 2023, 03:28:32 PM
Good grief Everton
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 30, 2023, 10:26:55 AM
City rolls Fulham away, moving top of the prem with a game in hand. They have west ham and Leeds at the etihad/everton away while arsenal have London derby against Chelsea, Newcastle away and Brighton at home.

Hang the banner in Manchester
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on April 30, 2023, 10:45:06 AM
Tottenham's come to play again I see.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on April 30, 2023, 11:06:40 AM
Tottenham's come to play again I see.

Burn it down. Build from youth. Find a development manager. Accept that you're going to sell a ton of players including Kane.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 30, 2023, 11:29:04 AM
Burn it down. Build from youth. Find a development manager. Accept that you're going to sell a ton of players including Kane.

As a Liverpool fan, I too agree that the club should utilize their world famous youth academy to rebuild the squad 😂😂
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on April 30, 2023, 11:29:55 AM
Gutted this morning as a Reading fan. Looked to be safe from relegation to start April, then the EFL handed down a 6-point penalty that pulled the Royals back into the relegation fight. After a managerial change, they grinded out some tough points against the top of the table, but the teams they are competing with have games against teams with virtually nothing to play for, and as a result, Reading is almost certainly headed down to League One. Cheering for a Championship side has been bad enough, but at least some of those games are played on ESPN+. Now barring a miracle, I won't even get that.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on April 30, 2023, 12:23:43 PM
Holy crap, what a finish.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on April 30, 2023, 02:03:21 PM
Interesting perspective from a prominent long time Tottenham fan.

https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1652727984636174336?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 03, 2023, 03:46:12 PM
Citeh steam rolls west ham further cementing their title.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 04, 2023, 03:42:39 PM
Sorry brew.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 04, 2023, 07:38:47 PM
Sorry brew.

Thanks. I accepted it last weekend. Knew it was pretty much inevitable. I just hope they bounce right back, because if they don't, Reading may be a long time outside the top-two leagues.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 04, 2023, 09:03:47 PM
Good for Napoli. Let’s see if Dortmund can get there too, just to see something different.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 06, 2023, 11:37:01 AM
Liverpool fans boo during God Save the King when it was played pre-game “in honor of King Charles.”

At least no one kneeled though.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 06, 2023, 01:02:48 PM
Lots of bad history between Liverpool and England/government/monarchy. Can’t believe the prem required them to do it frankly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU1in77 on May 07, 2023, 07:01:29 PM
Attached is an article Bill Simmons (previously on ESPN) wrote about picking an EPL team to cheer for.  The article is at least 15 years old but is still pretty interesting.

https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060719
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 09, 2023, 09:54:00 AM
Attached is an article Bill Simmons (previously on ESPN) wrote about picking an EPL team to cheer for.  The article is at least 15 years old but is still pretty interesting.

https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060719

Yeah...as Reading gets relegated to League freaking One this past week, this part stood out:

Goal No. 6: Pick a team that's successful enough to crack Channel 613 from time to time and will avoid the ignominy of getting kicked out of the EPL. And by the way, that can happen. At the end of every season, the bottom three teams are relegated to the second division, with the top three teams from the second division getting called up. (Imagine if baseball did this?) You don't want to be stuck with a team that gets relegated. So that factored in more than anything else.

All my early loyalty to a team that prized itself on having Yanks in the lineup, from Marcus Hahnemann and Bobby Convey to Danny Williams, Matt Miazga, and Marquette's own (sort of) Andrija Novakovich, without being the Fulham bandwagon everyone else was jumping on, and here we are in League freaking One. Bollocks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 09, 2023, 12:06:55 PM
Yeah...as Reading gets relegated to League freaking One this past week, this part stood out:

Goal No. 6: Pick a team that's successful enough to crack Channel 613 from time to time and will avoid the ignominy of getting kicked out of the EPL. And by the way, that can happen. At the end of every season, the bottom three teams are relegated to the second division, with the top three teams from the second division getting called up. (Imagine if baseball did this?) You don't want to be stuck with a team that gets relegated. So that factored in more than anything else.

All my early loyalty to a team that prized itself on having Yanks in the lineup, from Marcus Hahnemann and Bobby Convey to Danny Williams, Matt Miazga, and Marquette's own (sort of) Andrija Novakovich, without being the Fulham bandwagon everyone else was jumping on, and here we are in League freaking One. Bollocks.

Pick a new squad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 09, 2023, 07:52:21 PM
Yeah...as Reading gets relegated to League freaking One this past week, this part stood out:

Goal No. 6: Pick a team that's successful enough to crack Channel 613 from time to time and will avoid the ignominy of getting kicked out of the EPL. And by the way, that can happen. At the end of every season, the bottom three teams are relegated to the second division, with the top three teams from the second division getting called up. (Imagine if baseball did this?) You don't want to be stuck with a team that gets relegated. So that factored in more than anything else.

All my early loyalty to a team that prized itself on having Yanks in the lineup, from Marcus Hahnemann and Bobby Convey to Danny Williams, Matt Miazga, and Marquette's own (sort of) Andrija Novakovich, without being the Fulham bandwagon everyone else was jumping on, and here we are in League freaking One. Bollocks.

In a less dedicated version, but painful nonetheless...

 In the aftermath of the 1998 WC, my buddies and I truly got into the Premier League.  The Michael Owen explosion onto the scene in France lead my best friend and I to Liverpool in continued awe of him.  We knew Liverpool had a ton of history but they hadn't won a title in a decade and were never more than 3rd or 4th as of late, so we didn't feel like front runners. 

Our other friend didn't want to root for the same, so he did some research and settle on Coventry City, as Coventry was the street he grew up on and he liked the elephant on their crest.  And he preferred blue clubs to red.  Solid club with a ton of history and a First Division pedigree, not a yo-yo club.  Any older Premier League fans know where this is going...

99-00 was the first season truly being all in.  Coventry City scuffled around a bit.  He ordered a kit towards the end of the season and was pumped for 00-01.  Then CC sold Robbie Keane after just a year going into the season.  Then Coventry finished 19th and was relegated for the first time in almost 40 years.  They havent sniffed the PL since and ended up plummeting to League Two. 

He stuck with them awhile and then defected to Everton during the Tim Howard years.  As Everton has been a house of poorly ran horrors for awhile now, as of a few years ago, he was just a general EPL fan and gave up supporting a club.  Brutal, especially as around the same time, for the first time in 15 years (except 2005), Liverpool supportership was paying dividends to us.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 09, 2023, 08:01:22 PM
And now Coventry is in the playoffs and Everton might get relegated.

Anyway I am just a general fan. I can’t really root for a specific team. All the teams I root for, including Marquette, I’ve been rooting for my entire life as a sports fan. I just can’t decide to root for a team I haven’t followed in a similar manner.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on May 09, 2023, 08:22:30 PM
In a less dedicated version, but painful nonetheless...

 In the aftermath of the 1998 WC, my buddies and I truly got into the Premier League.  The Michael Owen explosion onto the scene in France lead my best friend and I to Liverpool in continued awe of him.  We knew Liverpool had a ton of history but they hadn't won a title in a decade and were never more than 3rd or 4th as of late, so we didn't feel like front runners. 

Our other friend didn't want to root for the same, so he did some research and settle on Coventry City, as Coventry was the street he grew up on and he liked the elephant on their crest.  And he preferred blue clubs to red.  Solid club with a ton of history and a First Division pedigree, not a yo-yo club.  Any older Premier League fans know where this is going...

99-00 was the first season truly being all in.  Coventry City scuffled around a bit.  He ordered a kit towards the end of the season and was pumped for 00-01.  Then CC sold Robbie Keane after just a year going into the season.  Then Coventry finished 19th and was relegated for the first time in almost 40 years.  They havent sniffed the PL since and ended up plummeting to League Two. 

He stuck with them awhile and then defected to Everton during the Tim Howard years.  As Everton has been a house of poorly ran horrors for awhile now, as of a few years ago, he was just a general EPL fan and gave up supporting a club.  Brutal, especially as around the same time, for the first time in 15 years (except 2005), Liverpool supportership was paying dividends to us.

Fell in love with the Prem in the early 90s when we saw a few games on tv. I also fell in love with Wednesday. Had it in the bag this year to finish top two then shat the bed against poor competition down the stretch. Playing very well heading into the League 1 playoffs, I’m feeling good.

My family tree starts in Lincolnshire, so I was like cool Sheffield is close. Went through the fall, the massive points deduction, painfully close to Prem promotion and gutted when relegated to League 1. WAWAW!!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 09, 2023, 10:01:29 PM
And now Coventry is in the playoffs and Everton might get relegated.

Anyway I am just a general fan. I can’t really root for a specific team. All the teams I root for, including Marquette, I’ve been rooting for my entire life as a sports fan. I just can’t decide to root for a team I haven’t followed in a similar manner.

Yep, its amusing.

And I hear you.  Liverpool is really the only sports team I got into past childhood.  And even that was in my teens.  As Ive gotten more into European soccer and leagues get TV deals, I watch plenty of Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, etc... matches, but don't have more than a passing investment in any one club, and that can often change year to year.  Same with some other global sports Ive grown to enjoy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 09, 2023, 10:32:13 PM
After growing up a Bears and Cubs fan, went to MU, changed baseball teams to the Brewers, I decided to suppoet Tottenham.

Why can't I pick a winner for once? FML.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MarquetteDano on May 10, 2023, 09:31:57 AM
Yeah...as Reading gets relegated to League freaking One this past week, this part stood out:

Goal No. 6: Pick a team that's successful enough to crack Channel 613 from time to time and will avoid the ignominy of getting kicked out of the EPL. And by the way, that can happen. At the end of every season, the bottom three teams are relegated to the second division, with the top three teams from the second division getting called up. (Imagine if baseball did this?) You don't want to be stuck with a team that gets relegated. So that factored in more than anything else.

All my early loyalty to a team that prized itself on having Yanks in the lineup, from Marcus Hahnemann and Bobby Convey to Danny Williams, Matt Miazga, and Marquette's own (sort of) Andrija Novakovich, without being the Fulham bandwagon everyone else was jumping on, and here we are in League freaking One. Bollocks.

Spent a fair bit of time in Reading for a customer.  Was always surprised at the apathy for the club.  Was not expecting the kind of crazy Northern fandom (a Liverpool supporter myself) but even so called Reading supporters seem to follow other teams more.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 10, 2023, 11:06:17 AM
After growing up a Bears and Cubs fan, went to MU, changed baseball teams to the Brewers, I decided to suppoet Tottenham.

Why can't I pick a winner for once? FML.

Should they make Mason full time?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 10, 2023, 12:41:16 PM
Should they make Mason full time?

No.

Not yet.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 10, 2023, 01:01:41 PM
If Spurs were smart they'd grab Arne Slot.  They're not, so I don't expect them to.  Maybe they'll surprise me.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 12, 2023, 10:27:59 AM
Spent a fair bit of time in Reading for a customer.  Was always surprised at the apathy for the club.  Was not expecting the kind of crazy Northern fandom (a Liverpool supporter myself) but even so called Reading supporters seem to follow other teams more.

I feel like a lack of natural rivals has stifled the fanbase. Swindon and Oxford are probably the biggest rivals, but I'm not sure they feel the same and they've rarely been in the same league of late. The London clubs all have each other, as do the southern Coastal clubs. Feels like kind of an odd no man's zone they're in.

Also hasn't helped that their promotions to the Prem haven't lasted. 2006-07 was great and they flirted with qualifying for Europe, but missed it on the last day. As a result, the club wasn't really strengthened in the offseason and then was relegated on the final day of 2008. Got one more top flight season since, but it's been a decade since they've been back.

Since Madejski sold the club, it's been a string of inconsistency, with only three top-half finishes and one playoff appearance in 10 years. 16 different managers, including caretakers, and none lasted even 2 years. We've had more point deductions due to financial mismanagement than playoff appearances. I get the apathy...it's a tough club to support. Especially with so many more successful clubs in relatively close proximity.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 12, 2023, 12:04:58 PM
I get the impression that a lot of the younger fans in England root for a local team, or the team their parents rooted for, but then also root for one of the big teams because they know they'll never be at the same level and will rarely play one another.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 12, 2023, 07:36:27 PM
Fell in love with the Prem in the early 90s when we saw a few games on tv. I also fell in love with Wednesday. Had it in the bag this year to finish top two then shat the bed against poor competition down the stretch. Playing very well heading into the League 1 playoffs, I’m feeling good.

Sorry to you as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on May 13, 2023, 10:05:28 AM
Absolute shambles of a performance by the Owls in a massive game. We go again albeit a near impossible task. Brutal, damn.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 14, 2023, 12:26:01 PM
Oh, just hand them the trophy now and forget the rest of the matches then.

Arsenal hands Citeh the trophy.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 14, 2023, 04:29:30 PM
Arsenal hands Citeh the trophy.

A bottle job for the ages.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 15, 2023, 08:58:55 AM
Absolute shambles of a performance by the Owls in a massive game. We go again albeit a near impossible task. Brutal, damn.

I hate the playoffs. Maybe because I've only watched them end in disappointment, but it feels like you work all year toward that goal and it all comes down to how the ball bounces in a one-off game. I was sick after watching Reading get to a penalty shootout with Huddersfield in 2017, go up 3-1, be thisclose to the Premier league only to lose the shootout 4-3.

See you next year  :'(
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 16, 2023, 08:25:29 AM
Let's hope that Balogun can be that missing no. 9 piece that the US has needed for some time. 19 league goals at only 21 years old.  Will just be entering his prime during the next WC. Have to see where he ends up next season as I'm not sure the minutes will be there at Arsenal once his loan ends, but a major win for the US nonetheless.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 16, 2023, 09:38:29 AM
Let's hope that Balogun can be that missing no. 9 piece that the US has needed for some time. 19 league goals at only 21 years old.  Will just be entering his prime during the next WC. Have to see where he ends up next season as I'm not sure the minutes will be there at Arsenal once his loan ends, but a major win for the US nonetheless.

Biggest dual nat signing ever for the US, IMO.  This isn't an academy talent or someone who is tied to a big club but not playing, like Julian Green.  This is a player from a top club on loan scoring in bunches in a top 5 league.  Further, Reims is mid table and has only scored 42 goals in 35 league matches, which makes his 19 even more impressive.  Its not like he was padding stats with a high scoring club.

Agree that he likely doesn't end up at Arsenal, but he will have no shortage of high profile suitors.  I'm buzzing this morning.  He's gonna be a great backup for Jordan Morris.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on May 16, 2023, 12:20:53 PM
Biggest dual nat signing ever for the US, IMO.  This isn't an academy talent or someone who is tied to a big club but not playing, like Julian Green.  This is a player from a top club on loan scoring in bunches in a top 5 league.  Further, Reims is mid table and has only scored 42 goals in 35 league matches, which makes his 19 even more impressive.  Its not like he was padding stats with a high scoring club.

Agree that he likely doesn't end up at Arsenal, but he will have no shortage of high profile suitors.  I'm buzzing this morning. He's gonna be a great backup for Jordan Morris.

I laughed pretty hard at this and then got very sad.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 16, 2023, 02:34:47 PM
Biggest dual nat signing ever for the US, IMO.  This isn't an academy talent or someone who is tied to a big club but not playing, like Julian Green.  This is a player from a top club on loan scoring in bunches in a top 5 league.  Further, Reims is mid table and has only scored 42 goals in 35 league matches, which makes his 19 even more impressive.  Its not like he was padding stats with a high scoring club.

Agree that he likely doesn't end up at Arsenal, but he will have no shortage of high profile suitors.  I'm buzzing this morning.  He's gonna be a great backup for Jordan Morris.

He’s performing without a great creator in the midfield too. He’s creating chances on his own and putting them away. True complete forward. He’s an absolute game changer for this cycle.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 16, 2023, 02:35:47 PM
Should they make Mason full time?

Going from Poch to Ryan Mason in several years is the most spurs move of all time
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 16, 2023, 02:50:55 PM
Going from Poch to Ryan Mason in several years is the most spurs move of all time

As much as my Spursy little heart loves Poch, it was time for him to move on. The problem wasn't parting ways with Poch, it's been all the catastrophic failures that followed.
Mason should not be the permanent replacement. I'd much rather take my chances with Kompany or Alonso.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 16, 2023, 03:07:02 PM
As much as my Spursy little heart loves Poch, it was time for him to move on. The problem wasn't parting ways with Poch, it's been all the catastrophic failures that followed.
Mason should not be the permanent replacement. I'd much rather take my chances with Kompany or Alonso.

I'm no Spurs supporter, but I think Kompany would be a home run.  He's been nothing short of fantastic at Burnley
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 16, 2023, 03:08:59 PM
Kompany just signed a new contract and pretty clearly has eyes for one job and one job only.  If he keeps Burnley up until Pep leaves (I believe his contract currently is up in 2025), he'll be the first name City call.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 16, 2023, 03:10:44 PM
And if Burnley goes down, it probably wouldn't hurt him all that much. Staying there might be way better for his career then jumping to Spurs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 16, 2023, 03:34:12 PM
Kompany just signed a new contract and pretty clearly has eyes for one job and one job only.  If he keeps Burnley up until Pep leaves (I believe his contract currently is up in 2025), he'll be the first name City call.

Yea, I wasn't implying he would be interested or is a realistic candidate, just that it would be a coup for Spurs.

And if Burnley goes down, it probably wouldn't hurt him all that much. Staying there might be way better for his career then jumping to Spurs.

Counter...if you're a manager who's accomplished anything prior to White Hart Lane, relative failure managing Spurs doesn't negatively impact your career.  Didn't for Poch, didn't for Jose, didn't for Villas-Boas, and I doubt it hurt Nuno (who I assume will be back to Spain/England within a year or two).  Conte likely has a solid job by fall.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 16, 2023, 03:41:28 PM
Just what MLS needs ... yet another franchise.


https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/soccer/story/2023-05-16/major-league-soccer-san-diego-expansion-team-franchise-thursday-news-conference-snapdragon-stadium
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 16, 2023, 03:50:55 PM
Counter...if you're a manager who's accomplished anything prior to White Hart Lane, relative failure managing Spurs doesn't negatively impact your career.  Didn't for Poch, didn't for Jose, didn't for Villas-Boas, and I doubt it hurt Nuno (who I assume will be back to Spain/England within a year or two).  Conte likely has a solid job by fall.

Nuno may eventually get a chance with a relegation-battling club in one of the top leagues, but I don't think he's ever getting another "big" job.
Villas-Boas has had work, but I wouldn't call it top-tier.
And then there's Harry Redknapp.

As for Kompany, I'm sure ManCity is his dream job, but what are the chances it's available to him anytime soon? And does he want to slog out promotion/relegation battles every year, while never coaching in Europe, until it does?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 16, 2023, 04:11:44 PM
Nuno may eventually get a chance with a relegation-battling club in one of the top leagues, but I don't think he's ever getting another "big" job.
Villas-Boas has had work, but I wouldn't call it top-tier.
And then there's Harry Redknapp.

I mean, thats all Nuno really was.  He made Wolves competitive, it wasn't necessarily a great gig otherwise.  So he'd be returning back to level at a mid tier or slightly lower club.

I think AVB was more negatively impacted by his Chelsea failure than Spurs, but the Zenit was still a pretty attractive job at the time.  Spalletti preceded him and Manicini followed him shortly thereafter.  Those teams had Hulk and Wietsal and made noise in the CL.

No arguments on Redknapp, but I would argue most of his tenure preceded the Top 4 regular contending Spurs of the current day.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 17, 2023, 12:57:52 PM
Arsenal hands Citeh the trophy.

It's what they do
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 17, 2023, 01:11:27 PM
Would think Brentford's odds of going down next year increased significantly. 20 goal scorers for the "other 14" are few and far between.  Interesting to see what they do this summer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 17, 2023, 03:59:39 PM
So the Championship playoff final will be between Luton (who were in the non-league fifth tier a decade ago) and Coventry (who were in League 2 five seasons ago.)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 17, 2023, 04:21:23 PM
So the Championship playoff final will be between Luton (who were in the non-league fifth tier a decade ago) and Coventry (who were in League 2 five seasons ago.)

Winner gets 20th and relegation next year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 17, 2023, 05:11:16 PM
So the Championship playoff final will be between Luton (who were in the non-league fifth tier a decade ago) and Coventry (who were in League 2 five seasons ago.)

Winner gets 20th and relegation next year.

I wouldn't be so sure with Luton.  Promoted from Non-League to League 2 and immediately were a mid-table top 10 club.  Then a few years later promoted from L2 to L1 to Championship in back to back seasons, and then were always a few spots clear of relegation in the Championship.  I wouldn't be shocked to see them end up 15-16 next year if they win it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on May 17, 2023, 05:29:33 PM
Winner gets 20th and relegation next year.

Certainly possible, but that's what everyone said about Fulham and Forest this year and there's a good chance none of the newly promoted teams are relegated.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 17, 2023, 09:23:53 PM
I wouldn't be so sure with Luton.  Promoted from Non-League to League 2 and immediately were a mid-table top 10 club.  Then a few years later promoted from L2 to L1 to Championship in back to back seasons, and then were always a few spots clear of relegation in the Championship.  I wouldn't be shocked to see them end up 15-16 next year if they win it.

Neither teams have a premier league talent on their roster. Both teams  relied on loanees to get them to this point.

Investment in the first team will come, but I doubt it will make much difference. Neither team is built for the prem.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 17, 2023, 09:26:30 PM
As much as my Spursy little heart loves Poch, it was time for him to move on. The problem wasn't parting ways with Poch, it's been all the catastrophic failures that followed.
Mason should not be the permanent replacement. I'd much rather take my chances with Kompany or Alonso.

I honestly believe Conte’s burn it down press conference on his way out torched any opportunity Tottenham had at hiring a high profile manager. A fighter like conte taking a defeatist attitude is a foreboding look into the clubs goings on.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 18, 2023, 12:03:50 AM
Certainly possible, but that's what everyone said about Fulham and Forest this year and there's a good chance none of the newly promoted teams are relegated.

Yes but mainly because Leicester, Everton,  & Chelsea are having historically terrible relegation years.

I love seeing the new clubs stay up.  I think sheffield will stay up next year.  Burnley is a standard prem team.

Luton needs a $10m investment just to get their grounds up to PL minimum standards.   There is no way they can compete.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on May 18, 2023, 02:28:23 PM
2-0 Wednesday 25’ in, need 4 and Hillsborough is in full voice. C’mon Wednesday!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 18, 2023, 02:56:07 PM
I honestly believe Conte’s burn it down press conference on his way out torched any opportunity Tottenham had at hiring a high profile manager. A fighter like conte taking a defeatist attitude is a foreboding look into the clubs goings on.

Conte's not exactly a fighter. He's bailed on every job he's had just as soon as his demands weren't met, torching his former club on his way out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 18, 2023, 03:40:50 PM
Conte's not exactly a fighter. He's bailed on every job he's had just as soon as his demands weren't met, torching his former club on his way out.

At least Mou was entertaining as he flamed out.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on May 18, 2023, 04:13:11 PM
Bedlam in S6!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 18, 2023, 04:54:25 PM
Bedlam in S6!

That was absolutely nuts.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 18, 2023, 05:04:22 PM
2-0 Wednesday 25’ in, need 4 and Hillsborough is in full voice. C’mon Wednesday!

Imagine being the fan that shredded his ticket to the home leg after they lost 4-0, only for them to score at 90+8 to force extra time, then won on penalties. Wild.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on May 18, 2023, 05:18:49 PM
An historic win by the Owls, still catching my breath. I haven’t screamed that loudly in a long time, what heart. On to Wembley! Que sera sera! WAWAW!

Nuts indeed, yeah those who tore up the ticket missed out on something special.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 18, 2023, 05:52:07 PM
Not just the 98th minute equalizer, then going down in ET via an own goal and still pulling one back.  2023, year of the unexpected Owl triumphs
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 18, 2023, 06:42:12 PM
Not just the 98th minute equalizer, then going down in ET via an own goal and still pulling one back.  2023, year of the unexpected Owl triumphs

Just laid my life savings on Temple winning the CFP.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 18, 2023, 08:56:13 PM
Just laid my life savings on Temple winning the CFP.

Nah, the way this year has went for Owls, gotta roll with Rice
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 19, 2023, 07:11:45 AM
Fwiw

https://meninred97.com/jesse-marsch-very-close-to-usmnt-appointment/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 19, 2023, 11:19:43 AM
Fwiw

https://meninred97.com/jesse-marsch-very-close-to-usmnt-appointment/

I like Jesse Marsch a lot but this is a meh for me.  Happy that its not another MLS hire, but seems lik a settle.  I think he'll be great for the changing room, but I'm concerned he'll be stubborn and rigid with his tactics, which won't work.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 19, 2023, 01:09:42 PM
I like Jesse Marsch a lot but this is a meh for me.  Happy that its not another MLS hire, but seems lik a settle.  I think he'll be great for the changing room, but I'm concerned he'll be stubborn and rigid with his tactics, which won't work.

Especially when the full squad only gets together a few times a year. Maybe that schedule will convince him to be more flexible though?

How about the fact, if true, they aren't announcing until after the gold cup?? Only so many chances and so much time to get the players together. Start now. Dumb to waste the gold cup (and nations cup?)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 20, 2023, 12:46:19 PM
Conte's not exactly a fighter. He's bailed on every job he's had just as soon as his demands weren't met, torching his former club on his way out.

He won a scudetto with juventus and inter. Europa league with inter. Fa cup with Chelsea. Premier league with Chelsea. He’s built culture quickly at three different elite teams and won the league and additional trophies at each stop. You’re right though. He’s a winner not a fighter. No wonder he didn’t work out at Tottenham.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 20, 2023, 01:03:25 PM
I like Jesse Marsch a lot but this is a meh for me.  Happy that its not another MLS hire, but seems lik a settle.  I think he'll be great for the changing room, but I'm concerned he'll be stubborn and rigid with his tactics, which won't work.

The speculation was around for a while so it’s definitely not a shock. He would be the most experienced manager we’ve ever had and his demeanor lends itself to a tournament setting. I really like it if it goes through. personality wise - he’s  the perfect guy to lead the team through a WC cycle on home soil.

Realistically, the best hire usmnt could muster. Huge bonus he’s American too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on May 22, 2023, 11:04:19 AM
https://onmilwaukee.com/articles/milwaukee-soccer-name-voting

You had over 4,000 suggestions and somehow the Milwaukee Cheese made the top 64?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 23, 2023, 12:01:43 PM
Timmy Tillman moves to USMNT.

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2023/05/fifa-approves-change-of-association-request-for-timmy-tillman
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on May 24, 2023, 07:59:07 PM
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3468384/oh-good-the-usmnt-apparently-has-no-real-plan-for-the-future-while-having-the-most-talented-roster-weve-ever-had#story-comments

Oh. Ok....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 24, 2023, 08:23:21 PM
I mean the World Cup is three years away. Not having a permanent coach this summer isn’t really a disaster.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 24, 2023, 08:35:39 PM
I mean the World Cup is three years away. Not having a permanent coach this summer isn’t really a disaster.

Yeah. They're going through a pretty significant organizational overhaul, with a new sporting director who's been on the job for less than a month. Patience seems to be a virtue here. Getting it done right is way more important than getting it done quickly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 24, 2023, 08:49:46 PM
I’ll be worried if they don’t hire someone by fall.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 25, 2023, 07:09:23 AM
I’ll be worried if they don’t hire someone by fall.

USMNT or Spurs?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 25, 2023, 07:55:08 AM
USMNT or Spurs?


Lol usmnt. If whomever they’re targeting is waiting on a club role, we’ll know by fall.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 27, 2023, 12:59:59 PM
Watching the championship playoff. I’m setting the o/u on total points next year in the prem for 20. Smart money will be on the under.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 27, 2023, 04:04:11 PM
Really glad for Luton. Meteoric rise, they have a great fanbase. I have a number of old Hatters buddies that are undoubtedly overjoyed today.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on May 27, 2023, 04:05:22 PM
Watching the championship playoff. I’m setting the o/u on total points next year in the prem for 20. Smart money will be on the under.

I think a better O/U might be goals scored…and the same total may apply.  Luton scored 57 in 46 matches in the Championship, lowest in the top 10.  Unless they somehow bring in a legit EPL strike force, they are gonna be scare ripples in their opponents net.  Coventry was 58 in 46, so it would have been the same there.  Gonna be a worse version of what Huddersfield tried to do a few years ago

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 27, 2023, 06:27:43 PM
I think a better O/U might be goals scored…and the same total may apply.  Luton scored 57 in 46 matches in the Championship, lowest in the top 10.  Unless they somehow bring in a legit EPL strike force, they are gonna be scare ripples in their opponents net.  Coventry was 58 in 46, so it would have been the same there.  Gonna be a worse version of what Huddersfield tried to do a few years ago

Take all Luton unders. They may be the worst promoted team since derby in the mid 2000s.

They’re a team built to withstand the grind of the championship. Route 1 direct play with no creative players or speed on the width is a recipe for complete disaster in the prem. They’ll need extremely intelligent recruitment. Can’t miss on any of their signings. Will most likely end up going loan route with younger talented players and risky signings in hopes they pay off. No established players in their prime will go to a team which will most likely drop down in one season.

The fairy tale is over.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 27, 2023, 06:28:25 PM
Really glad for Luton. Meteoric rise, they have a great fanbase. I have a number of old Hatters buddies that are undoubtedly overjoyed today.

finally what im sure is lifelong fandom paying off in spades.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 27, 2023, 09:44:03 PM
Really glad for Luton. Meteoric rise, they have a great fanbase. I have a number of old Hatters buddies that are undoubtedly overjoyed today.

Luton Town is Wrexham without the American/Canadian actor ownership and an FX show.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 28, 2023, 06:43:34 AM
finally what im sure is lifelong fandom paying off in spades.

It is, I got some fantastic accounts of the Luton Littlewoods Cup runs in the late 1980s & the Reading/Luton Simod Cup final in 1988. The site we all used to chat on is gone, and the last time we talked regularly Luton was out of league football.

Luton Town is Wrexham without the American/Canadian actor ownership and an FX show.

They are, as a club they've yo-yoed up and down the football leagues, and won improbable cups along the way. It'll be interesting to see if Wrexham can match Luton's rise in terms of speed. 9 years is crazy fast, but I'm not sure a TV audience will be that patient.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 28, 2023, 06:50:33 AM
Also, Wrexham has some well monied owners for non-league football, but not sure they compare well to the other owners in Leagues One and Two.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 28, 2023, 06:50:37 AM
It is, I got some fantastic accounts of the Luton Littlewoods Cup runs in the late 1980s & the Reading/Luton Simod Cup final in 1988. The site we all used to chat on is gone, and the last time we talked regularly Luton was out of league football.

They are, as a club they've yo-yoed up and down the football leagues, and won improbable cups along the way. It'll be interesting to see if Wrexham can match Luton's rise in terms of speed. 9 years is crazy fast, but I'm not sure a TV audience will be that patient.


Ooooohhhhhhh internet friends !
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 28, 2023, 06:57:09 AM
Also, Wrexham has some well monied owners for non-league football, but not sure they compare well to the other owners in Leagues One and Two.

It’s seems like half their team migrated down from league 1/2 because of salary and the marketing potential. They’re also doing a US pre season tour playing Chelsea and United which will net them more money than most teams in their comp will make for all of their gate revenues for the season. They’ll be totally fine.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 28, 2023, 07:01:50 AM
If by totally fine you mean survive in 1/2 and possibly contend for the championship, I agree. I was comparing them to Luton Town's rise to the PL.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on May 28, 2023, 07:05:55 AM
Also, Wrexham has some well monied owners for non-league football, but not sure they compare well to the other owners in Leagues One and Two.

They were getting L1/2 level players in conference, so I think they can probably earn another promotion, maybe two with luck, but there are a lot of millionaires/billionaires that use the football league like roulette, thinking they can gamble their way to the Prem. Their financial edge diminishes as they go up, but it'll be interesting to see if being the real life football version of The Office is an additional enticement for talent.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 28, 2023, 07:07:08 AM
If by totally fine you mean survive in 1/2 and possibly contend for the championship, I agree. I was comparing them to Luton Town's rise to the PL.

If wrexham continue to compete/make good tv, advertising dollars will roll in. They’ll make the top dollar compared to the others in whatever competition they’re in and it seems like owners  genuinely care and will reinvest in the club/recruitment. I can see them climbing the ladder quickly.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 28, 2023, 07:22:45 AM
They were getting L1/2 level players in conference, so I think they can probably earn another promotion, maybe two with luck, but there are a lot of millionaires/billionaires that use the football league like roulette, thinking they can gamble their way to the Prem. Their financial edge diminishes as they go up, but it'll be interesting to see if being the real life football version of The Office is an additional enticement for talent.

I really think it will increase as it goes up. Even though some clubs have those billionaire owners, they’re not funding the club extraordinarily well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on May 29, 2023, 07:29:51 AM
What a weird season. Leicester probably the team with the most talent to go down in a long time. They’ll be ravaged in the off season. Chelsea and spurs miss out on Europe. Newcastle in champions league. Everton pulling another Houdini to avoid the drop. first ever Manchester derby in the fa cup. I’m sad this season is ending ! 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on May 29, 2023, 04:20:44 PM
Absolute scenes at Wembley after a last touch stunner of a header from Josh Windass in the 123’ of extra time. Sheffield Wednesday are goin up!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 29, 2023, 04:47:32 PM
Heh. Windass…
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on May 30, 2023, 02:57:05 PM
New (interim) USMNT coach alert:

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2023/05/sporting-director-crocker-elevates-bj-callaghan-to-head-coach-of-usmnt-as-anthony-hudson-departs
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Skatastrophy on June 01, 2023, 08:49:19 AM
Anyone interested in TST that kicks off today? I have a friend playing for the Cincinnati squad, and I'm interested in how the USWNT does against the boys.

https://tst-stats.com/landing/index
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 01, 2023, 01:48:07 PM
Anyone interested in TST that kicks off today? I have a friend playing for the Cincinnati squad, and I'm interested in how the USWNT does against the boys.

https://tst-stats.com/landing/index

I think it will be kind of a fun thing to watch like TBT.  The reduced field player golden goal set up towards the end is interesting. Pumped to see one of my HS crushes Cat Whitehill lace up the boots again.

Today I think could be competitive, unfortunately, I don't see how they don't get shellacked tomorrow.  The Wrexham team has a bunch of dudes that were playing League One and League Two in the last 2-3 years whereas the US Women are mostly long since retired players.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: lawdog77 on June 01, 2023, 02:05:09 PM
Indianapolis broke ground on their new soccer stadium this week:

https://populous.com/populous-design-revealed-for-indy-eleven-stadium (https://populous.com/populous-design-revealed-for-indy-eleven-stadium)

(https://6amcity.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/a9d9fa7/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5000x2815+0+182/resize/1000x563!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fk1-prod-sixam-city.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2Faa%2Fb8%2F9f7bbfd34b5db9616c6ea8fb61b5%2F01-river-view.jpg)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 05, 2023, 05:10:59 PM
"Karim Benzema is reportedly signing a three-year, $643 million contract to join Al Ittihad. "

#sportswashing
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 06, 2023, 08:27:52 PM
"Karim Benzema is reportedly signing a three-year, $643 million contract to join Al Ittihad. "

#sportswashing

I had this queued up before the big LIV bomb today, but I don’t see this as sportwashing as much as a vanity project.  The Qatar WC? Sportwashing.  LIV, sportwashing.  If they had bought WWE, sportwashing.  Visit Saudi being the biggest and most notable in game sponsor for IPL cricket this year?  Definitely.

But this feels no different than what the Chinese League did a few years ago.  Or the Russian dudes who fund a couple women’s basketball teams and pay WNBA stars 3-4x what they make in the WNBA,  It’s just backing up Brinks trucks of cash to get secondary super stars to play in their crappy domestic league.  If Saudi tried to fire the Super Leauge back up and add their top 4 Saudi teams to United, City, Real, Barca, etc…. Then I’d change my tune.


Speaking of Saudi soccer, I randomly sat next to Alexander Isak, from Newcastle United, on a flight back from Vegas to Chicago yesterday.  Took me a good 20 min initially to place it.  Really nice guy, humble guy, wanted to sleep but chatted happily for a bit, took multiple peoples bags down from the overhead after the flight.  Was traveling with a friend who got bumped back to coach due to some issue.  Also made me realize how much those guys have to love traveling in the US.  One of the biggest young stars in the EPL, making $10MM a year, likely gets mobbed daily in the Toon… flying more or less solo without an entourage and during our flight and 5-10 min after that I saw in ORD, I was the only one who recognized him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 06, 2023, 09:23:34 PM
I had this queued up before the big LIV bomb today, but I don’t see this as sportwashing as much as a vanity project.  The Qatar WC? Sportwashing.  LIV, sportwashing.  If they had bought WWE, sportwashing.  Visit Saudi being the biggest and most notable in game sponsor for IPL cricket this year?  Definitely.

But this feels no different than what the Chinese League did a few years ago.  Or the Russian dudes who fund a couple women’s basketball teams and pay WNBA stars 3-4x what they make in the WNBA,  It’s just backing up Brinks trucks of cash to get secondary super stars to play in their crappy domestic league.  If Saudi tried to fire the Super Leauge back up and add their top 4 Saudi teams to United, City, Real, Barca, etc…. Then I’d change my tune.


Speaking of Saudi soccer, I randomly sat next to Alexander Isak, from Newcastle United, on a flight back from Vegas to Chicago yesterday.  Took me a good 20 min initially to place it.  Really nice guy, humble guy, wanted to sleep but chatted happily for a bit, took multiple peoples bags down from the overhead after the flight.  Was traveling with a friend who got bumped back to coach due to some issue.  Also made me realize how much those guys have to love traveling in the US.  One of the biggest young stars in the EPL, making $10MM a year, likely gets mobbed daily in the Toon… flying more or less solo without an entourage and during our flight and 5-10 min after that I saw in ORD, I was the only one who recognized him.

I happen to believe those Chinese and Russian attempts were also attempt at sports washing.

Sure, they weren't creating leagues or trying to control international competition. But they're trying to trade money for goodwill/propaganda.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 07, 2023, 06:10:42 AM
I had this queued up before the big LIV bomb today, but I don’t see this as sportwashing as much as a vanity project.  The Qatar WC? Sportwashing.  LIV, sportwashing.  If they had bought WWE, sportwashing.  Visit Saudi being the biggest and most notable in game sponsor for IPL cricket this year?  Definitely.

But this feels no different than what the Chinese League did a few years ago.  Or the Russian dudes who fund a couple women’s basketball teams and pay WNBA stars 3-4x what they make in the WNBA,  It’s just backing up Brinks trucks of cash to get secondary super stars to play in their crappy domestic league.  If Saudi tried to fire the Super Leauge back up and add their top 4 Saudi teams to United, City, Real, Barca, etc…. Then I’d change my tune.


Speaking of Saudi soccer, I randomly sat next to Alexander Isak, from Newcastle United, on a flight back from Vegas to Chicago yesterday.  Took me a good 20 min initially to place it.  Really nice guy, humble guy, wanted to sleep but chatted happily for a bit, took multiple peoples bags down from the overhead after the flight.  Was traveling with a friend who got bumped back to coach due to some issue.  Also made me realize how much those guys have to love traveling in the US.  One of the biggest young stars in the EPL, making $10MM a year, likely gets mobbed daily in the Toon… flying more or less solo without an entourage and during our flight and 5-10 min after that I saw in ORD, I was the only one who recognized him.

Also the NFL when they trot out troops and military crap before during and after every game.

Everything is propaganda.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 07, 2023, 08:13:02 AM
I'm with Wags on this.  Think a much bigger threat is their plan to try to co-host the 2030 WC.  It feels a lot like the MLS about a decade ago, where they overpay for superstars that are in the twilight of their career.  They're never going to be able to touch the prestige that Europe has so they're targeting players that have really accomplished everything there is to accomplish in Europe.  Ronaldo's done it all a few times over, Benzema same thing, Messi same thing.  Then you look at their rumored targets, Modric has won everything, Kroos same thing, Kante same thing, Gundogan almost same thing (could cross of Champions League next week).  They're not targeting the Mbappe's or Haaland's, or whoever is the next superstar, because they know that at this point in their career's the money isn't as important as the prestige, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 07, 2023, 11:11:53 AM
Messi to Miami
#donedeal
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on June 07, 2023, 11:40:35 AM
Nice little Wednesday for Apple.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 10, 2023, 06:56:28 AM
Messi to Miami
#donedeal

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1667143475307880450?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 10, 2023, 11:00:36 AM
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1667143475307880450?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q

I mean, that Beckham line was clearly a joke, especially since people have always joked that Beckham is barely intelligible.  It wasn't that funny of a joke but people are losing their mind over it.

As for Messi, I couldn't care less and he will certainly be able to live an entire normal life in Miami speaking only Spanish, thousands of people already do.  But Ive always found it crazy that he speaks really no English, at all.  I can't think of another soccer player at an elite level, much less a global megastar athlete, who doesn't at least speak passable English.  You have guys like Ichiro or Ohtani or some Dominican baseball players who use a translator just to make sure they don't get their interviews misrepresented, but they still speak English.  Ive never heard anything like that about Messi, just that he doesn't know or speak English.  Certainly his choice, but still wild.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 14, 2023, 09:16:00 AM
Every summer I become more and more convinced that Mbappe is a diva.  This is what, season 3 of the Madrid - Paris - Mbappe "will they, won't they" soap opera?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 14, 2023, 09:36:43 AM
Every summer I become more and more convinced that Mbappe is a diva.  This is what, season 3 of the Madrid - Paris - Mbappe "will they, won't they" soap opera?

He is the best player in the game so anything involving him will garner a lot of attention. Especially in the very short off-season.

But this isn't so much an Mbappe story as it is a story about PSG being dysfunctional inside and outside of the stadium.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 14, 2023, 09:46:53 AM
He is the best player in the game so anything involving him will garner a lot of attention. Especially in the very short off-season.

But this isn't so much an Mbappe story as it is a story about PSG being dysfunctional inside and outside of the stadium.

I'm not sure I'd say he's the best in the game.

As for PSG's dysfunctionality, I'd agree if this were a one off, but there have been way to many instances where he's been a prima donna.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 14, 2023, 10:21:37 AM
I'm not sure I'd say he's the best in the game.

As for PSG's dysfunctionality, I'd agree if this were a one off, but there have been way to many instances where he's been a prima donna.

You could say its not a one off for Mbappe, but its not a one off for PSG either.  Look at the tenure of superstars there, its always short.  Neymar has been there 6 years and he's an anamoly (and just got ran off).  They cycle through star players even though its a premier club with endless money in a marquee city with endless branding.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 14, 2023, 10:43:52 AM
You could say its not a one off for Mbappe, but its not a one off for PSG either.  Look at the tenure of superstars there, its always short.  Neymar has been there 6 years and he's an anamoly (and just got ran off).  They cycle through star players even though its a premier club with endless money in a marquee city with endless branding.

Don't get me wrong, PSG is not a well run club, but the list of Mbappe initiated drama during his time there is lengthy.  Even this round, his contract stated that he always had to opt-in so there was no reason to have his letter writing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 14, 2023, 11:11:39 AM
You could say its not a one off for Mbappe, but its not a one off for PSG either.  Look at the tenure of superstars there, its always short.  Neymar has been there 6 years and he's an anamoly (and just got ran off).  They cycle through star players even though its a premier club with endless money in a marquee city with endless branding.


Being in Ligue 1 isn't helpful though.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 14, 2023, 02:17:05 PM
All this futbol talk and no mention of the treble that Man City pulled off?

Sure the game was extremely dull, but they did it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 14, 2023, 02:24:18 PM
All this futbol talk and no mention of the treble that Man City pulled off?

Sure the game was extremely dull, but they did it.

With the talent in the squad it was only a matter of time before they got the Champions League.  Their Semi-Final second leg might be the best I have ever seen a team play, absolutely dominating the holders.  Inters 3-5-2 was a different formation that most teams use and essentially neutralized Haaland, I wonder if teams will try to emulate that domestically next season.  Feel bad for De Bryune getting hurt in the finals in 2 of 3 years, but I'm sure all that matters to him is the silverware.  Haaland vs Messi for the Ballon d'Or will be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on June 14, 2023, 02:24:37 PM
All this futbol talk and no mention of the treble that Man City pulled off?

Not nearly as impressive as the 115 times they allegedly broke FFP rules.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 14, 2023, 06:14:57 PM
Don't get me wrong, PSG is not a well run club, but the list of Mbappe initiated drama during his time there is lengthy.  Even this round, his contract stated that he always had to opt-in so there was no reason to have his letter writing.

Is the contention that Mbappe is a prima Donna because he notified the club 12 months too early that he wouldn't exercise his option?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 15, 2023, 06:16:49 AM
Is the contention that Mbappe is a prima Donna because he notified the club 12 months too early that he wouldn't exercise his option?

This incident (one of many) was him telling PSG in person that he wasn’t exercising it, then sending them a letter (that just happened to go to a newspaper as well) saying the exact same thing. The newspaper got the letter hours before PSG did. He leaked that he wanted out to inform Madrid to come calling (Madrid had stated as recently as a few weeks ago that they were going to wait to try for him next summer, plus just committed a 9 figure sum for Jude). That screams prima donna.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 15, 2023, 11:05:01 AM
Not nearly as impressive as the 115 times they allegedly broke FFP rules.

Everton have more violations. I doubt anything will happen
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 15, 2023, 04:46:44 PM
This incident (one of many) was him telling PSG in person that he wasn’t exercising it, then sending them a letter (that just happened to go to a newspaper as well) saying the exact same thing. The newspaper got the letter hours before PSG did. He leaked that he wanted out to inform Madrid to come calling (Madrid had stated as recently as a few weeks ago that they were going to wait to try for him next summer, plus just committed a 9 figure sum for Jude). That screams prima donna.

Ok
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 15, 2023, 09:26:08 PM
I'm sure this will be received warmly here.


Paul Tenorio
@PaulTenorio
BREAKING: Gregg Berhalter is set to return as manager of the #USMNT, according to multiple sources briefed on the negotiations.

Deal still being finalized, but return is imminent.

Reporting with
@MLSist
:
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 15, 2023, 09:28:12 PM
I'm sure this will be received warmly here.


Paul Tenorio
@PaulTenorio
BREAKING: Gregg Berhalter is set to return as manager of the #USMNT, according to multiple sources briefed on the negotiations.

Deal still being finalized, but return is imminent.

Reporting with
@MLSist
:

Lol im watching gio Reyna boss the midfield in the first 10 minutes and now I see that this clown is getting re upped.

It was a good run for the best talent America has ever seen…
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 15, 2023, 09:31:01 PM
Lol im watching gio Reyna boss the midfield in the first 10 minutes and now I see that this clown is getting re upped.

It was a good run for the best talent America has ever seen…

Did you apply?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 15, 2023, 09:32:19 PM
Did you apply?

Did you ?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 15, 2023, 09:41:35 PM
Best talent usmnt has ever seen and he achieved nothing more than all previous coaches. Why does he deserve to run the program in the nations most important cycle ever?

USSF opening itself up to absolute toxicity is beyond ludicrous. Beyond moronic move
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 15, 2023, 09:50:57 PM
Best talent usmnt has ever seen and he achieved nothing more than all previous coaches. Why does he deserve to run the program in the nations most important cycle ever?

USSF opening itself up to absolute toxicity is beyond ludicrous. Beyond moronic move

Or ...took youngest team in the tournament to knockout stage and tied with 2010 team for most points ever by a US team in a World Cup.
Best result percentage, best AGF and best AGA of any coach in USMNT history (minimum 10 matches).
I think GGG has his flaws, but the narrative your pushing here is objectively false.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 15, 2023, 10:02:44 PM
Or ...took youngest team in the tournament to knockout stage and tied with 2010 team for most points ever by a US team in a World Cup.
Best result percentage, best AGF and best AGA of any coach in USMNT history (minimum 10 matches).
I think GGG has his flaws, but the narrative your pushing here is objectively false.

Barely got out of the group and got dominated in their knockout game. Putrid offense with absolutely no creativity. Not a great record against real competition. questionable talent evaluation (Jordan morris, Jesus fererera, Shaq Moore) Finished THIRD in concacaf qualifying.

He did nothing more than most of his predecessors and absolutely nothing that merits a second look.

On top of that, he’s at odds with (IMO) America’s best talent.

Absolutely embarrassing hire. This shows America is not serious about becoming a real soccer country.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 15, 2023, 10:08:09 PM
Matt Crocker has had the job for a few months and already confirmed that he’s just a puppet.  Hopefully he’s getting paid well for it
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 15, 2023, 10:08:47 PM
Does it matter what the players think?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 15, 2023, 10:10:23 PM
Gregg vitriol not surprising in here

In other news, the US just dominated Mexico in that half
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 15, 2023, 10:20:48 PM
Gregg vitriol not surprising in here

In other news, the US just dominated Mexico in that half

Just wait until we get Jesus ferera playing false 9 and Shaq Moore doing cardio on the left side while gio Reyna and joe scally sit with pinnies on the bench.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 15, 2023, 10:37:49 PM

On top of that, he’s at odds with (IMO) America’s best talent.

Balogun doesn't like Gregg? Or pulisic?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 15, 2023, 10:56:56 PM
I love Weston
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 15, 2023, 11:19:49 PM
That ref, much like those Mexican fans, with an abysmal showing
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 15, 2023, 11:29:51 PM
Mexico was awful.

Mexican fans were worse.

The ref was even worse than that.

And yet what we'll remember from tonight is going back to Berhalter. Gross.

They keep talking about how the USSF would've talked to Berhalter about Reyna, but watching how integral Gio was to that match, they sure as hell better have asked Reyna if he supported that hire, and if the answer is anything short of an enthusiastic, unequivocal yes, you don't even consider bringing him back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: fjm on June 15, 2023, 11:34:02 PM
Mexico was awful.

Mexican fans were worse.

The ref was even worse than that.

And yet what we'll remember from tonight is going back to Berhalter. Gross.

They keep talking about how the USSF would've talked to Berhalter about Reyna, but watching how integral Gio was to that match, they sure as hell better have asked Reyna if he supported that hire, and if the answer is anything short of an enthusiastic, unequivocal yes, you don't even consider bringing him back.

What a match! We got to see a Futbol game and a UFC fight all in one.

That Weston Red was trash. The guy headbutted him essentially.

Mexican fans should be ashamed. All future USMNT v Mexico games should be belt on Alcatraz. Gees
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: fjm on June 15, 2023, 11:35:41 PM
Also, I wasn’t a Gio supporter for his crybaby antics during the WC. But boy, he looked gooooood tonight!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 16, 2023, 05:17:46 AM
Balogun doesn't like Gregg? Or pulisic?

No I mean the number 10 that can unlock a defense with a single pass, dictate tempo in the midfield or rip a dangerous shot at any point.

He’s a match winner with much of his true potential unrealized. Hiring the guy who grossly mismanaged him on the biggest stage and is(was?) clearly at odds at him is moronic.

Bit of a rant, but no one on this roster is better and IMO more important than Gio.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 16, 2023, 07:23:16 AM
Charlie Davies. Yikes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 16, 2023, 07:34:07 AM
Devil's advocate: this hire proves USSF is doing things the right way. Why? Because they've decided US soccer (at least according to their vision) is bigger than one potentially disgruntled player. And they took their time with a thorough investigation and subsequent coaching search.

On another note: I truly believe USSF was only considering American coaches because they wanted an American on the sideline for the US-based world cup.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 16, 2023, 08:01:41 AM
It seems like a hire without ambition.

However, I know very little about soccer tactics so I have no idea who would be a good coach for this team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 16, 2023, 08:23:06 AM
https://twitter.com/PaulTenorio/status/1669626922677211136?t=HGxIrZ8ySBaSdCQdYnWw4w&s=19

More player support, regardless of what the rest of us think

Also, lol:
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 16, 2023, 08:27:13 AM
It's just so predictable.  We're going to dominate CONCACAF for the next three years just because the level of competition is at the level where GGG can just roll the ball out there and out-talent them. We'll get our hopes up when we get out of our group, maybe even win a knockout game with the expanded format, but once we come across a good team, we'll just fold.  GGG was completely outclassed by LVG last WC, and LVG is by no means a great coach.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 16, 2023, 09:50:15 AM
Also, I wasn’t a Gio supporter for his crybaby antics during the WC. But boy, he looked gooooood tonight!

Had you watched Reyna play the game prior to the World Cup?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUBurrow on June 16, 2023, 10:00:54 AM
I love Weston

+1.  That was awesome.  Don't even care that he's suspended for the final - way more important for him to back his guy up there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 16, 2023, 10:25:46 AM
How do you get musah, mckennie, Adams, pulisic, Reyna on the field together?

IMO, Reyna out wide is a waste.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 16, 2023, 10:41:26 AM
IMO based on current form I think Musah would be the odd man out, he had a pretty underwhelming season in Spain.  Run a 4-2-3-1 with Adams and Mck as the double pivot. Reyna central with CP and Weah on the wings and Balogun up top. Musah and Aaronson first two subs in.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 16, 2023, 10:48:55 AM
IMO based on current form I think Musah would be the odd man out, he had a pretty underwhelming season in Spain.  Run a 4-2-3-1 with Adams and Mck as the double pivot. Reyna central with CP and Weah on the wings and Balogun up top. Musah and Aaronson first two subs in.

IMO, playing better teams outside of concacaf, that 2 man midfield will get run over. And Reyna doesn't track back/play defensively well enough to compensate for a 2 man midfield. And, to be fair, he shouldn't be expected to, because that's not his role.

Any consideration for a 3-4-3?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 16, 2023, 10:54:05 AM
I wouldn't be opposed to trying a formation change, I just don't think GGG ever would go away from a back 4.  We've played 4 at the back since the beginning of time, and honestly, I'm not sure we have to personnel to make a back 3 work.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Tortuga94 on June 16, 2023, 01:08:25 PM
It's just so predictable.  We're going to dominate CONCACAF for the next three years just because the level of competition is at the level where GGG can just roll the ball out there and out-talent them. We'll get our hopes up when we get out of our group, maybe even win a knockout game with the expanded format, but once we come across a good team, we'll just fold.  GGG was completely outclassed by LVG last WC, and LVG is by no means a great coach.

Mexico is definitely down at the moment, but not so sure about the USA being the best in Concacaf. Canada may like a word there. They did after all finish first in WCQ. Drew a brutal group in the WC with 2 teams that finished in the top 4, the other team in the group was Belgium. They have the 2 best players in Concacaf at their respective positions, Davies and David. The US beating this version of el Tri isn't that big a deal. They've looked terrible since Cocca took over, couldn't even beat Jamaica at home which is why they drew the US in the semi. Cocca's style of play is all wrong for the way Mexico likes to play. I don't see him surviving the weekend if they lose to Panama.

Prediction for Sunday, game ends in a 1-1 draw, USA wins in PKs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 16, 2023, 01:30:55 PM
Mexico is definitely down at the moment, but not so sure about the USA being the best in Concacaf. Canada may like a word there. They did after all finish first in WCQ. Drew a brutal group in the WC with 2 teams that finished in the top 4, the other team in the group was Belgium. They have the 2 best players in Concacaf at their respective positions, Davies and David. The US beating this version of el Tri isn't that big a deal. They've looked terrible since Cocca took over, couldn't even beat Jamaica at home which is why they drew the US in the semi. Cocca's style of play is all wrong for the way Mexico likes to play. I don't see him surviving the weekend if they lose to Panama.

Prediction for Sunday, game ends in a 1-1 draw, USA wins in PKs.

Having "the 2 best players at their respective positions" is kinda mitigated when one of those positions is LB.  I'm also not so sure that David was definitely better than Balogun last year in Ligue 1, their numbers are pretty comparable, and David was on an unquestionably better team with more service.  I'll also throw out that having a world class striker does not guarantee success, look at how dominant Norway has been.  Games are won in the midfield, and Canada played a 40 year old currently at Besiktas in their semi-final.  I think Herdman is a better coach than GGG and anything can happen in a 1 game final (especially with 2 Americans suspended), but I would be pretty confident saying that between now and WC2026, the US will have more success.

Edit: Agree that Mexico is a dumpster fire that needs to be torn down to the studs, and rebuilt.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Tortuga94 on June 16, 2023, 01:41:21 PM
I don't necessarily disagree, just don't think it's a sure thing the USA will dominate the next few years. These teams are not much different than the teams that played in WCQ and Canada was the best team in the region, during that cycle. Just saying don't count out Canada and I do think Mexico will improve too, probably not to a point where they will overtake the US and Canada, but they will be more competitive than last night's team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 16, 2023, 01:50:51 PM
I don't necessarily disagree, just don't think it's a sure thing the USA will dominate the next few years. These teams are not much different than the teams that played in WCQ and Canada was the best team in the region, during that cycle. Just saying don't count out Canada and I do think Mexico will improve too, probably not to a point where they will overtake the US and Canada, but they will be more competitive than last night's team.

Fair, I do think they're clearly the two best teams in the region, by a decent bit too.  It'll be interesting to see if/how intense that rivalry gets.  I feel like it's gonna be that Man U/Man C/Pool trio, where the biggest rivalry there is still the one with the most history, even though it doesn't have the two best teams.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 16, 2023, 02:46:43 PM
Other than David and Davies, can you honestly point to another of their starting 9 that you'd rather have at their position than the US?  Pretty much their entire squad, outside of those 2, plays in mid tier Euro leagues.  No EPL players, no Bundesliga players, no Serie A, and only Larin in La Liga, who isn't better than most of the US forwards.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 16, 2023, 07:47:20 PM
Yeah I kind think our “golden generation”  would be a “rebuilding generation” for most Europeans.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 18, 2023, 08:31:48 AM
It's just so predictable.  We're going to dominate CONCACAF for the next three years just because the level of competition is at the level where GGG can just roll the ball out there and out-talent them. We'll get our hopes up when we get out of our group, maybe even win a knockout game with the expanded format, but once we come across a good team, we'll just fold.  GGG was completely outclassed by LVG last WC, and LVG is by no means a great coach.

Here are the results from the six games leading up to and in the World Cup for ggg.

0-2 Japan
0-0 Saudi Arabia
1-1 wales
0-0 England
1-0 Iran
1-3 holland

He’s been pathetic outside of a weak region in which he came in third during WC qualifying. And somehow some here are actually defending him.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 18, 2023, 12:48:44 PM
Here are the results from the six games leading up to and in the World Cup for ggg.

0-2 Japan
0-0 Saudi Arabia
1-1 wales
0-0 England
1-0 Iran
1-3 holland

He’s been pathetic outside of a weak region in which he came in third during WC qualifying. And somehow some here are actually defending him.

Seems pretty cherry picked data
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 18, 2023, 12:57:27 PM
Seems pretty cherry picked data

Hat tip - Good joke
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 18, 2023, 08:49:45 PM
What a first goal from Folarin Balogun. Great setup by Reyna, then excellent speed by Balogun to get the step and strength up hold off his man while firing a rocky past the keeper. A true striker's goal.

Really impressed with his speed tonight. There have been three instances where Balogun nearly chased down a ball in the box he had no business being close to. At some point, he'll get a goal chasing a lazy ball back.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 18, 2023, 08:58:44 PM
What a first goal from Folarin Balogun. Great setup by Reyna, then excellent speed by Balogun to get the step and strength up hold off his man while firing a rocky past the keeper. A true striker's goal.

Really impressed with his speed tonight. There have been three instances where Balogun nearly chased down a ball in the box he had no business being close to. At some point, he'll get a goal chasing a lazy ball back.

Told friends during the Mexico game that the US looks so damn fast at every position on the field
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 18, 2023, 09:46:28 PM
Balo is the real deal, he’s been as good as advertised, can’t to see him get more comfortable with the squad.

The Berhalter news is especially interesting moving forward given that Gio Reyna has been an absolute STUD and clear best player for the US the last 2 matches
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 18, 2023, 10:46:58 PM
Balo is the real deal, he’s been as good as advertised, can’t to see him get more comfortable with the squad.

The Berhalter news is especially interesting moving forward given that Gio Reyna has been an absolute STUD and clear best player for the US the last 2 matches

https://twitter.com/ahandleforian/status/1670609696737181700?t=MB_NkQdsb9zDkmMo15C4LQ&s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 19, 2023, 11:05:12 AM
Don't focus only on the Reyna miss. The old manager (now the new manager) also decided Scally wasn't worth a chance and had him below a guy named Shaq.

Mistakes were made all over the field with selection and signing up for the same problems to rear their head on home soil in 2026 is disheartening and ludicrous. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 19, 2023, 11:29:36 AM
Don't focus only on the Reyna miss. The old manager (now the new manager) also decided Scally wasn't worth a chance and had him below a guy named Shaq.

Mistakes were made all over the field with selection and signing up for the same problems to rear their head on home soil in 2026 is disheartening and ludicrous.

Scally did a great job on Davies last night. That World Cup Shaq Moore decision was malpractice.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 19, 2023, 12:03:37 PM
Scally did a great job on Davies last night. That World Cup Shaq Moore decision was malpractice.

Scally had a really good first half.

Then proceeded to get roasted in the 2nd
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 19, 2023, 12:21:57 PM
Scally did a great job on Davies last night. That World Cup Shaq Moore decision was malpractice.

Shaq Moore is now playing in MLS, after he flamed out of La Liga and Segunda Division in Spain.  So I look forward to him being a key component of GGG's rosters moving forward.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 19, 2023, 02:40:58 PM
Scally had a really good first half.

Then proceeded to get roasted in the 2nd

Agree to disagree - I really don’t recall much danger coming down canadas left side.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 19, 2023, 02:41:56 PM
Shaq Moore is now playing in MLS, after he flamed out of La Liga and Segunda Division in Spain.  So I look forward to him being a key component of GGG's rosters moving forward.

I can’t wait for the reeemergence of cristian roldan
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on June 19, 2023, 03:40:42 PM
Agree to disagree - I really don’t recall much danger coming down canadas left side.

Aaronson was helping him out a ton whenever Davies was on that side.

Obviously the Shaq Moore decision was terrible, but I thought Scally was average last night. They left Jedi on an island and protected Scally at all costs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 19, 2023, 03:53:57 PM
Aaronson was helping him out a ton whenever Davies was on that side.

Obviously the Shaq Moore decision was terrible, but I thought Scally was average last night. They left Jedi on an island and protected Scally at all costs.

I think the thing with Scally is that he's not a finished product, and not an elite RB yet.  But he's a 20 year old every day starter for a top half club in a top 3 league.  So he should be getting tons of run when possible, unless he's a total liability, which he's not shown.

Davies is about the only wing in CONCACAF that Scally would need help with.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 19, 2023, 09:12:56 PM
Aaronson was helping him out a ton whenever Davies was on that side.

Obviously the Shaq Moore decision was terrible, but I thought Scally was average last night. They left Jedi on an island and protected Scally at all costs.

Aaronson is a high motor player but positionally lacks awareness. Especially further back on the wing where he played Sunday. He thrives chasing down balls and pressing higher up the field starting in the middle of the park. He was out of position a lot sprinting to recover rather than being in the right place initially. Just like an outfielder who takes poor routes to fly balls and ends up Making diving catches. Scally was solid/very good last night and it shows neutralizing the best player in concacaf.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on June 19, 2023, 10:48:44 PM
Aaronson is a high motor player but positionally lacks awareness. Especially further back on the wing where he played Sunday. He thrives chasing down balls and pressing higher up the field starting in the middle of the park. He was out of position a lot sprinting to recover rather than being in the right place initially. Just like an outfielder who takes poor routes to fly balls and ends up Making diving catches. Scally was solid/very good last night and it shows neutralizing the best player in concacaf.

Agree to disagree on his impact last night, but he’s clearly a better choice than Moore and I agree with Wags above that he should be getting a ton of run any time Dest sits.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on June 20, 2023, 09:31:26 PM
Scally had a really good first half.

Then proceeded to get roasted in the 2nd

I thought he was fine. Davies created some danger in the second half, but for the most part Scally kept up with him, and if his greatest failing is not keeping up with Davies for 90 minutes, there are plenty of quality players around the world that would say the same.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 27, 2023, 08:46:48 PM
I still can’t wrap my head around the fact USSF re hires GGG but decides for him not to manage the team he was hired to work with while they compete in the regions biennial tournament.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 27, 2023, 10:48:01 PM
I still can’t wrap my head around the fact USSF re hires GGG but decides for him not to manage the team he was hired to work with while they compete in the regions biennial tournament.

My cynical feelings on USSF are well known, but this seems fairly obvious.  Knowing full well they would be sending their B/C team after winning Nations League, they didn't want GGG to get criticism/heat when they don't perform well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 28, 2023, 06:11:47 AM
My cynical feelings on USSF are well known, but this seems fairly obvious.  Knowing full well they would be sending their B/C team after winning Nations League, they didn't want GGG to get criticism/heat when they don't perform well.

Weeks ago, way before announcing the return of greggg, USSF had stated whoever they did hire as full time.coach wouldn't start until well after the gold cup
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 07:04:01 AM
My cynical feelings on USSF are well known, but this seems fairly obvious.  Knowing full well they would be sending their B/C team after winning Nations League, they didn't want GGG to get criticism/heat when they don't perform well.

Which is out of this world cowardly. The naysayers aren’t going anywhere. Go out and coach the team you were hired to coach instead of raising more doubt around yourself.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 07:06:38 AM
Weeks ago, way before announcing the return of greggg, USSF had stated whoever they did hire as full time.coach wouldn't start until well after the gold cup

Which makes sense for a new hire which would need to hire a new staff, do their own evaluations on the pool, meet the federation etc. However it makes zero sense when you re hire your most recent coach and the pool hasn’t changed and the back room staff is almost identical to when you they left six months ago…
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 28, 2023, 07:55:46 AM
Which makes sense for a new hire which would need to hire a new staff, do their own evaluations on the pool, meet the federation etc. However it makes zero sense when you re hire your most recent coach and the pool hasn’t changed and the back room staff is almost identical to when you they left six months ago…

Ok.

But it isn't some USSF conspiracy related to rehiring Gregg
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 28, 2023, 08:17:31 AM
Maybe if they held the Gold Cup every four years like a normal federation they would take it more seriously. But it's bi-annual, and now they have another competition on top of it, so is it really that big of a deal?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 09:41:41 AM
Maybe if they held the Gold Cup every four years like a normal federation they would take it more seriously. But it's bi-annual, and now they have another competition on top of it, so is it really that big of a deal?

That would be like a new college football coach skipping the non conference slate only to coach conference play because they’re not serious games.

He was hired to coach so coach. It’s an entirely separate pathetic issue if the federation or ggg is afraid of backlash from possibly not performing to the standard.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 09:43:49 AM
Ok.

But it isn't some USSF conspiracy related to rehiring Gregg

It’s not a conspiracy. It’s a federation  protecting their poor decision and acknowledging what will inevitably happen when results don’t go ggg’s ways.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 28, 2023, 09:49:02 AM
That would be like a new college football coach skipping the non conference slate only to coach conference play because they’re not serious games. the standard.

That's really a terrible analogy.


He was hired to coach so coach. It’s an entirely separate pathetic issue if the federation or ggg is afraid of backlash from possibly not performing to the standard.

That was Wags' theory. If they announced they weren't going to have a hire hire coach the Gold Cup, then that is the obvious reason why he isn't coaching.

Really who cares? They haven't prioritized the Gold Cup. It will have no bearing at all on the USMNT moving forward. They're clear priority will be to qualify for 2024 Copa America this fall, and making a deep run in that tournament. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 09:50:15 AM
That's really a terrible analogy.


That was Wags' theory. If they announced they weren't going to have a hire hire coach the Gold Cup, then that is the obvious reason why he isn't coaching.

Really who cares? They haven't prioritized the Gold Cup. It will have no bearing at all on the USMNT moving forward. They're clear priority will be to qualify for 2024 Copa America this fall, and making a deep run in that tournament.

You’re a terrible analogy bang
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 09:51:00 AM
That's really a terrible analogy.


That was Wags' theory. If they announced they weren't going to have a hire hire coach the Gold Cup, then that is the obvious reason why he isn't coaching.

Really who cares? They haven't prioritized the Gold Cup. It will have no bearing at all on the USMNT moving forward. They're clear priority will be to qualify for 2024 Copa America this fall, and making a deep run in that tournament.

He’s not coaching games that count and it’s because the federation wants to shelter him. That’s a big problem.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 28, 2023, 09:55:04 AM
He’s not coaching games that count and it’s because the federation wants to shelter him. That’s a big problem.


That's your theory. I don't agree with it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 09:57:16 AM

That's your theory. I don't agree with it.

Why isn’t he on the sideline then ?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 28, 2023, 10:13:32 AM
Why isn’t he on the sideline then ?

Because back in May they announced that Callaghan would be in place this summer and they stuck with their plan.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/usmnt-coach-change-bj-callaghan-to-lead-nations-league-gold-cup-as-anthony-hudso

"B.J. Callaghan will serve as head coach for the US men’s national team during this summer’s Concacaf Nations League and Gold Cup tournaments, coinciding with Tuesday's news that interim coach Anthony Hudson has departed the program for a new opportunity."


That seems way more plausible than "they're sheltering him." Why would they do that?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 28, 2023, 10:35:30 AM
If you actually want a conspiracy, I wouldn't be entirely shocked if USSF knew they were re-hiring GGG when they made the statement about the new coach and the Gold Cup
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 10:38:46 AM
Because back in May they announced that Callaghan would be in place this summer and they stuck with their plan.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/usmnt-coach-change-bj-callaghan-to-lead-nations-league-gold-cup-as-anthony-hudso

"B.J. Callaghan will serve as head coach for the US men’s national team during this summer’s Concacaf Nations League and Gold Cup tournaments, coinciding with Tuesday's news that interim coach Anthony Hudson has departed the program for a new opportunity."


That seems way more plausible than "they're sheltering him." Why would they do that?

That article is worthless. It was written with the premonition that a hire would happen at the end of summer (wrong) and the hire would come from the outside (wrong).

They hired someone directly inside the USSF circle and it happened before a competition. Completely different circumstances than what your article proposes.

They’re sheltering him because of the overwhelmingly bad reception the hire received.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on June 28, 2023, 10:53:22 AM
I don't think they are sheltering him at all. The roster for this tournament stinks and isn't expected to win.

He already won a Gold Cup with a B roster.

If you actually want a conspiracy, I wouldn't be entirely shocked if USSF knew they were re-hiring GGG when they made the statement about the new coach and the Gold Cup

I agree on this. They probably decided a lot earlier than they are letting on, but sheltering him doesn't make a ton of sense.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 28, 2023, 10:56:59 AM
That article is worthless. It was written with the premonition that a hire would happen at the end of summer (wrong) and the hire would come from the outside (wrong).

They hired someone directly inside the USSF circle and it happened before a competition. Completely different circumstances than what your article proposes.

They’re sheltering him because of the overwhelmingly bad reception the hire received.


Let me know if you need more tin foil for that hat of yours.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 11:05:37 AM
I don't think they are sheltering him at all. The roster for this tournament stinks and isn't expected to win.

He already won a Gold Cup with a B roster.

I agree on this. They probably decided a lot earlier than they are letting on, but sheltering him doesn't make a ton of sense.

Mexico was +150 going in and USA +165.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 11:10:15 AM

Let me know if you need more tin foil for that hat of yours.

Why wouldn’t he coach a competitive tournament after he was hired then?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 28, 2023, 11:11:33 AM
Why wouldn’t he coach a competitive tournament after he was hired then?

Already answered.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 11:12:46 AM
Already answered.

With an outdated non relevant article….
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 28, 2023, 11:33:11 AM
With an outdated non relevant article….


But sure, your tinfoil-inspired theory is really relevant huh?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 28, 2023, 11:50:34 AM
I don't think they are sheltering him at all. The roster for this tournament stinks and isn't expected to win.

He already won a Gold Cup with a B roster.

I agree on this. They probably decided a lot earlier than they are letting on, but sheltering him doesn't make a ton of sense.

Ya. But not by enough goals. And not with the right players
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 28, 2023, 11:52:35 AM
If you actually want a conspiracy, I wouldn't be entirely shocked if USSF knew they were re-hiring GGG when they made the statement about the new coach and the Gold Cup
Ha!

That's a good one
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 28, 2023, 11:54:19 AM
Because back in May they announced that Callaghan would be in place this summer and they stuck with their plan.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/usmnt-coach-change-bj-callaghan-to-lead-nations-league-gold-cup-as-anthony-hudso

"B.J. Callaghan will serve as head coach for the US men’s national team during this summer’s Concacaf Nations League and Gold Cup tournaments, coinciding with Tuesday's news that interim coach Anthony Hudson has departed the program for a new opportunity."


That seems way more plausible than "they're sheltering him." Why would they do that?

When this story/plan came out, I discussed with all my soccer friends. Said it was absolutely stupid. Once the coach is hired, get him on the sideline for any/all competitions.

I still think it's a stupid plan, regardless of who the hire ended up being.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 28, 2023, 12:04:41 PM
I'm not disputing it's a bad idea. I'm disputing the idea they are doing it to shelter him from...people booing I guess??
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 28, 2023, 12:25:28 PM
QSMNT is a real thing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 12:47:23 PM
I'm not disputing it's a bad idea. I'm disputing the idea they are doing it to shelter him from...people booing I guess??

Why else wouldn’t he manage the team ?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 28, 2023, 12:54:19 PM
Why else wouldn’t he manage the team ?

Answered multiple times now.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 28, 2023, 12:54:52 PM
QSMNT is a real thing.

You seemingly show up and mock criticisms of GGG/USSF every time it happens, like after the WC.  I'm not to the level of panda, but I don't know what US Soccer has done to deserve the benefit of the doubt.  Even if you like/have no issue with GGG, the federation has been a cluster and good ol boy nepo network for decades with limited success to earn leeway.

Regardless of the Gold Cup, how anyone can be not be embarrassed by the process, or skeptical of the organization as a whole, after this rehiring, and textbook buried announcement timing, is beyond me.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 28, 2023, 01:12:53 PM
You seemingly show up and mock criticisms of GGG/USSF every time it happens,

I'm not mocking criticisms of GGG.
If I had my druthers, he would not have been re-hired.

I'm mocking the lunatic fringe of the USMNT fanbase which sees conspiracy and nefariousness at every turn. It's not nearly enough to simply disagree with a decision. No sir. The decisionmakers must be ascribed with wicked intentions. They must have their personal character, their morals and their ethics assailed. They must be destroyed.
And God help anyone in the soccer media/world who pushes back against that narrative. They're obviously federation lackeys, not simply people with - gasp! - a different outlook. Again, it's not enough to just disagree. You must also question the motives and character of the person.
It's all a bunch of nonsense, Wags, and I'm surprised you're caught up in it.
I wish the federation had gone a different direction. The fact they didn't doesn't make them the literal bad human beings you and others make them out to be.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 01:13:16 PM
Answered multiple times now.

With an article written two weeks before the appointment which changes the entire premise of their proposed starting protocol….
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 28, 2023, 02:53:01 PM
I'm not mocking criticisms of GGG.
If I had my druthers, he would not have been re-hired.

I'm mocking the lunatic fringe of the USMNT fanbase which sees conspiracy and nefariousness at every turn. It's not nearly enough to simply disagree with a decision. No sir. The decisionmakers must be ascribed with wicked intentions. They must have their personal character, their morals and their ethics assailed. They must be destroyed.
And God help anyone in the soccer media/world who pushes back against that narrative. They're obviously federation lackeys, not simply people with - gasp! - a different outlook. Again, it's not enough to just disagree. You must also question the motives and character of the person.
It's all a bunch of nonsense, Wags, and I'm surprised you're caught up in it.
I wish the federation had gone a different direction. The fact they didn't doesn't make them the literal bad human beings you and others make them out to be.

Oh I don't think they are bad human beings.  I don't think they are evil and nefarious, but I do think there is a cabal within the power structure at US Soccer that keeps things in control and that control/power/influence is just as important as the results and the results can be spun to make that hold.  And that I think is to the detriment of US Soccer as a whole.  I don't think its a grand conspiracy and I don't need a tinfoil hat for that, I just think its the truth.

I don't think GGG is some scumbag abuser, just a mid tier coach.  I don't think Cindy Cone is a malevolent dictator.  I think its just all part of the same merry go round.  Honestly, its no different than the Chicago Bears stumbling along forever cause the McCaskeys and their favored people were more important than doing whatever was needed to win.

Until I see something that signifies doing something other than the way they've always done it, I'll struggle to not be cynical about it.  I was hopeful about Matt Crocker, but this is not an auspicious start to his tenure.

As for soccer media, I think the problem is there are so many of the US Soccer/MLS writers who are just spin doctor apologists.  Like the guy I quoted during the WC who raved about GGG as an absolute superstar in his handling of everything around the WC and what a great man and father he was as a result.  With that sort of sycophant, I'm not going to trust anything they say with regards to US Soccer.  I'm not even bothered by the pollyanna types, but the ones who can't write a critical or non slanted word about MLS or US Soccer, and there are PLENTY, those are lackeys.  There are plenty of soccer writers who cover both that I respect even when I disagree with.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 28, 2023, 03:08:42 PM
Oh I don't think they are bad human beings.

I would respectfully suggest that some of your posting history indicates otherwise.
I won't/don't want to list all the examples, but a couple come to mind.

Immediately after GGG's rehiring, your response here was to call Matt Crocker "just a puppet" and suggest he is somehow selling out for money. Those typically aren't the kind of aspersions you would cast on someone you think is a good person, right? At the very least you're impugning his character. Again ... not enough to say he made a bad decision. He has to be attacked as a person.

You also shared and endorsed a very long Tweetstorm late last year - or maybe earlier this year - arguing that federation leaders have willingly and knowingly engaged in a conspiracy that harms the organization  - or at least its chances of success - in exchange for personal benefit, financial and otherwise.
That seems an awful lot to me like calling them bad people. Good people don't sell out their organization for personal gain, right?

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 28, 2023, 03:33:24 PM
I would respectfully suggest that some of your posting history indicates otherwise.
I won't/don't want to list all the examples, but a couple come to mind.

Immediately after GGG's rehiring, your response here was to call Matt Crocker "just a puppet" and suggest he is somehow selling out for money. Those typically aren't the kind of aspersions you would cast on someone you think is a good person, right? At the very least you're impugning his character. Again ... not enough to say he made a bad decision. He has to be attacked as a person.

You also shared and endorsed a very long Tweetstorm late last year - or maybe earlier this year - arguing that federation leaders have willingly and knowingly engaged in a conspiracy that harms the organization  - or at least its chances of success - in exchange for personal benefit, financial and otherwise.
That seems an awful lot to me like calling them bad people. Good people don't sell out their organization for personal gain, right?

I suppose thats a way to look at it.

I called Matt Crocker a "puppet" because if he was brought in from the outside to do exactly what the Federation wanted or had done previously, which the rehiring of GGG suggests to me, then he's not the one pulling the strings.  I'm speaking to Matt Crocker as Sporting Director, his role.  Nothing about him as a human.  It had nothing to do with his character.  Thousands of people take promotions that advance their career where they will have to answer to a leader or agenda,  and often it can be immensely profitable.  I don't think that makes him deficient in character or even as a football mind.  I think he did great work at Southampton and he could very well have taken the job with US Soccer knowing that he could always be overruled on decisions like this and was fine with it knowing it could be good for him long term.  I never intended it to be an attack on his personal character and more disappointment, yet again, with the direction of US Soccer that his hiring initial didn't point to.

And again, you're putting words into my mouth.  I think people very often act in their own best interest.  Especially professionally, and I don't think it makes them necessarily bad people.  Bad at their jobs?  Misguided?  Absolutely.  But I don't think GGG or his brother and his pals at US Soccer are bad people as a result.  I do not care for Don Garber AT ALL, but I don't think he's a bad person, I just wholly disagree with his viewpoint and intentions.

Again, not dissimilar to other professional sports.  You see coaches hiring staff, or front offices hiring staff, that they've known for a long time, or are friendly with, or trust...that is a seemingly TERRIBLE decision to unbiased observers and acts to the detriment of their organization.  Owners too!  But I don't think it means they are bad people, they are just hiring/staffing/etc in ways that make them feel comfortable, protected, etc... 

I think its soccer malpractice thats happening at the top levels of US Soccer, but I don't think any of the people involved are scumbags or truly terrible people, as opposed to someone like Sepp Blatter.  I have no interest in impugning their personal character beyond just pointed and heavy criticism on how they do their jobs and shepherd a national team with potentially to be a legitimate player on the world stage.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 28, 2023, 04:19:30 PM
Arsenal got money...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on June 28, 2023, 04:25:47 PM
Arsenal got money...

All the Big 6 + Newcastle have bank.  Spending it effectively is the key.  We'll see how Rice ages.  9 figure transfers don't have as high a success rate as they should.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on June 28, 2023, 04:35:54 PM
Wags,

If you told Matt Crocker he was a just puppet, would he take that as an attack on his character, or merely you questioning his decision making?

If you told Sunil Gulati he sold out the best interests of the USSF in order to enhance his personal wealth, would he think you were questioning his ethics, or merely had a difference opinion with how he ran the federation?

I think the things you've posted here go far beyond questioning a person's job performance.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 28, 2023, 05:47:46 PM
Let's assume Matt crocker came into his new job. He reviewed all of the investigation into Gregg. He interviewed all the candidates he wanted to. He spoke to other coaches, staff, soccer insiders. He spoke to youth/current/former USMNT players. He did all the due diligence he should and could to make a decision on hiring the next usmnt head coach.

And at the end of that process, he concluded that Gregg is the best person for the job.


Is there any evidence that could be provided that would convince folks that:

A. Matt Crocker is the right person for the sporting director position/good at his job
B. Matt Crocker made his decision without significant outside influence
C. Matt Crocker truly believes Gregg is his pick for the best hire
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 28, 2023, 05:58:30 PM
No. The only evidence that anyone should care about is if he meets or exceeds expectations. And only time will tell if that’s the case.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 28, 2023, 06:48:53 PM
Wags,

If you told Matt Crocker he was a just puppet, would he take that as an attack on his character, or merely you questioning his decision making?

If you told Sunil Gulati he sold out the best interests of the USSF in order to enhance his personal wealth, would he think you were questioning his ethics, or merely had a difference opinion with how he ran the federation?

I think the things you've posted here go far beyond questioning a person's job performance.

Fair enough, I can see where you're coming from.  Its not my intention, but it doesn't really change how I feel about things.

Let's assume Matt crocker came into his new job. He reviewed all of the investigation into Gregg. He interviewed all the candidates he wanted to. He spoke to other coaches, staff, soccer insiders. He spoke to youth/current/former USMNT players. He did all the due diligence he should and could to make a decision on hiring the next usmnt head coach.

And at the end of that process, he concluded that Gregg is the best person for the job.


Is there any evidence that could be provided that would convince folks that:

A. Matt Crocker is the right person for the sporting director position/good at his job
B. Matt Crocker made his decision without significant outside influence
C. Matt Crocker truly believes Gregg is his pick for the best hire

Like Sultan said, no, not really.  GGG wasn't a slam dunk hire the first time and didn't set the world on fire during his tenure, so it wasnt a no brainer "if we can get he back we GOTTA".  So for fresh eyes to come in and just reup the guy you just let go is pretty unheard of.

But again, results are all that matters.  If strategy/tactics/team vibe changes from the first time around, ok then Crocker heard/learned/saw something new and that changes everything.  But if we see more of the frustrating lack of offense compared to the free flowing assault from the last 2 matches of Nations League, then its gonna be really disappointing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 06:50:07 PM
No. The only evidence that anyone should care about is if he meets or exceeds expectations. And only time will tell if that’s the case.

The issue is if the USSF’s expectations align with what should be expected from our best national team talent wise ever playing on home soil.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 28, 2023, 06:51:42 PM
Fair enough, I can see where you're coming from.  Its not my intention, but it doesn't really change how I feel about things.

Like Sultan said, no, not really.  GGG wasn't a slam dunk hire the first time and didn't set the world on fire during his tenure, so it wasnt a no brainer "if we can get he back we GOTTA".  So for fresh eyes to come in and just reup the guy you just let go is pretty unheard of.

But again, results are all that matters.  If strategy/tactics/team vibe changes from the first time around, ok then Crocker heard/learned/saw something new and that changes everything.  But if we see more of the frustrating lack of offense compared to the free flowing assault from the last 2 matches of Nations League, then its gonna be really disappointing.

Ya, I get the results perspective.

But you're essentially saying there's nothing that will convince you that Matt Crocker isn't a puppet.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on June 28, 2023, 06:56:25 PM
Ya, I get the results perspective.

But you're essentially saying there's nothing that will convince you that Matt Crocker isn't a puppet.

It’s easy to be dubious when someone re hires a highly controversial figure with above average at best results.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on June 28, 2023, 07:09:12 PM
Ya, I get the results perspective.

But you're essentially saying there's nothing that will convince you that Matt Crocker isn't a puppet.

Not so much that he isn't a puppet but that there was a plan in place when he was hired that he was supposed to adhere to.  I'm not saying he's toothless in perpetuity, but thats how it appears early stages.

And do you really look at it all and be like "yea GGG coming back makes sense, I'm sure they looked at all options and this works best"?  I'm not saying they were getting Pep or Jose, but I find it SHOCKING there was nobody better in the world that had interest.  They scored more than 1 goal in less than a third of their games over the last 2 years through the WC.  Just brutal.

Again, even if you're not into the USSF is corrupt ideas or other "conspiracies", I don't know how you look favorably upon the rehiring and Crocker's first few months as a result.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on June 28, 2023, 09:47:18 PM
Not so much that he isn't a puppet but that there was a plan in place when he was hired that he was supposed to adhere to.  I'm not saying he's toothless in perpetuity, but thats how it appears early stages.

And do you really look at it all and be like "yea GGG coming back makes sense, I'm sure they looked at all options and this works best"?  I'm not saying they were getting Pep or Jose, but I find it SHOCKING there was nobody better in the world that had interest.  They scored more than 1 goal in less than a third of their games over the last 2 years through the WC.  Just brutal.

Again, even if you're not into the USSF is corrupt ideas or other "conspiracies", I don't know how you look favorably upon the rehiring and Crocker's first few months as a result.

I do think I understand your position.

As of now, you believe Crocker has little to no individual agency. And no evidence would convince otherwise.

Fwiw - I don't like the rehire. I've never been a fan of ussf. I hated gulati. I dislike Garber. I don't think Gregg was a good initial hire either. And I think the plan announced weeks ago to keep the new hire away from the team till after the summer is dumb.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on July 01, 2023, 01:14:46 PM
Ok - had some time to think this over. Below is what ggg will need to change in order to win me (and I’m assuming the majority of the fan base) back over. Some of these should be easier than others.

1 - He needs to repair broken relationships with key players. Very concerning to hear he still had not reached out to Gio. Needs to repair relationships with Scally, Pepi and John Brooks. I highly doubt the brooks relationship is salvagebable.

2 - He needs to move on from his favorites ASAP. Aaron long, Acosta, areola, Jesus ferera, Jordan morris, roldan, Shaq morre. Aaron long stuck around for way too long. Played in most lead up games to WC and important qualifiers nations league etc. should’ve been dropped a long time before.

3 - Tactical flexibility. Build around your best players. You don’t build around a system with the national team. You conform to your top existing talent. Play gio Reyna centrally. Stop the fullbacks from pushing forward with worthless crosses into the box. MMA midfield doesn’t work. Musah and Mckennie are redundant etc.

4 - Pick the right starting 11 and in game management. Subs have been pathetic and some starting lineups are klinsman level bad.

5 - stop being such a dope. Selfies in the middle of games. Stupid bounce passes. Ridiculous framing of games aka the “dominant loss” against Canada. Missing a Memphis Depay. Leadership conference fiasco etc.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on July 03, 2023, 12:09:00 PM
Ok - had some time to think this over. Below is what ggg will need to change in order to win me (and I’m assuming the majority of the fan base) back over. Some of these should be easier than others.

1 - He needs to repair broken relationships with key players. Very concerning to hear he still had not reached out to Gio. Needs to repair relationships with Scally, Pepi and John Brooks. I highly doubt the brooks relationship is salvagebable.

2 - He needs to move on from his favorites ASAP. Aaron long, Acosta, areola, Jesus ferera, Jordan morris, roldan, Shaq morre. Aaron long stuck around for way too long. Played in most lead up games to WC and important qualifiers nations league etc. should’ve been dropped a long time before.

3 - Tactical flexibility. Build around your best players. You don’t build around a system with the national team. You conform to your top existing talent. Play gio Reyna centrally. Stop the fullbacks from pushing forward with worthless crosses into the box. MMA midfield doesn’t work. Musah and Mckennie are redundant etc.

4 - Pick the right starting 11 and in game management. Subs have been pathetic and some starting lineups are klinsman level bad.

5 - stop being such a dope. Selfies in the middle of games. Stupid bounce passes. Ridiculous framing of games aka the “dominant loss” against Canada. Missing a Memphis Depay. Leadership conference fiasco etc.

I agree with pretty much all of this. I do think Ferreira has earned a spot on even the strongest 23 whether as the 3rd #9 or a backup #10. He's a 22 year old who scores in league and for the US. I know that he hasn't done it against the best teams and he needs to prove that he can, but the US has had a ton of strikers who haven't been able to come close to his production even against the lesser teams in the region.

I also don't care if Brooks ever suits up for the USMNT again, but I may be in the minority on that one.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 03, 2023, 12:57:30 PM
I also don't care if Brooks ever suits up for the USMNT again, but I may be in the minority on that one.

If thats because those minutes are going to Richards, Neal, Robinson, or McKenzie?  Absolutely.  But if Brooks is continuing to get frozen out so GGG can keep running out Long, Zimmerman, or Miazga in meaningful games?  Hell no.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on July 04, 2023, 06:45:19 AM
I agree with pretty much all of this. I do think Ferreira has earned a spot on even the strongest 23 whether as the 3rd #9 or a backup #10. He's a 22 year old who scores in league and for the US. I know that he hasn't done it against the best teams and he needs to prove that he can, but the US has had a ton of strikers who haven't been able to come close to his production even against the lesser teams in the region.

I also don't care if Brooks ever suits up for the USMNT again, but I may be in the minority on that one.

Ferera plays an important role at this point and it’s scoring against lower level competition. We went through some lean years in which wee struggled in that regard. There will be a role to play for him moving forward, I don’t think it should be as a number 9. He plays better in the pocket behind a striker with the ability to create in small spaces. I just don’t see ggg creating that opportunity for him.

Our CB pool is deep and his presence isn’t necessarily needed, but that example just shows ggg stubbornness to bring in his guys over proven talents for club and country to play his broken system.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on July 05, 2023, 01:25:29 PM
Milwall owner killed in crash on Cape Cod.

https://www.wcvb.com/article/berylson-millwall-football-club-owner-fatal-crash-falmouth-cape-cod-massachusetts/44445872
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 05, 2023, 06:31:09 PM
PSG really can't do anything if Mbappe just shows up and doesn't sign an extension right?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on July 07, 2023, 04:22:18 PM
Interesting thoughts from Reggie cannon.

https://twitter.com/herculezg/status/1677357545390841858?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 12, 2023, 09:35:36 PM
USMNT out of gold cup on pens, 5-4.

As a ref and a GK dad, the slow motion camera behind the net showing the PK and a foot on the line is absolutely mind-blowing how microseconds the difference is.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 12, 2023, 09:36:45 PM
USMNT out of gold cup on pens, 5-4.

As a ref and a GK dad, the slow motion camera behind the net showing the PK and a foot on the line is absolutely mind-blowing how microseconds the difference is.

Meh. Probably a fair outcome. One of the few times the US looked like the less fit side.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on July 12, 2023, 09:49:00 PM
They looked gassed before halftime. 120 with Canada and 120 again was just too much for the B team. Not watching much MLS, I assume Cristian Roldan must be some sort of god there, because good Christ is he useless in a national team jersey.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 12, 2023, 11:36:03 PM
They looked gassed before halftime. 120 with Canada and 120 again was just too much for the B team. Not watching much MLS, I assume Cristian Roldan must be some sort of god there, because good Christ is he useless in a national team jersey.

That Sounders mystique that has allowed Roldan and his buddy Morris to amass a combined 92 caps.  Neither of them should be sniffing actual competition but continue to get call ups.  Its pathetic.  Its crazy that both of them are only 28 and will be cashing fat MLS paychecks well past the 2026 WC but also have no business being near a USMNT other than meaningless friendlies due to injuries.

I'm fine with the US not sending the A team to the Gold Cup.  But at least use it to blood young guys and see what they got.  I LOVE what Ive seen from Cowell.  Dude is a bull in a china shop.  Thats the kind of player that should be getting run.  Why no Caleb Wiley?  Why bring up Aiden Morris and then just play Roldan?  Its beyond frustrating.

This was just an AWFUL soccer match to watch for the majority of it, both as a US supporter, or just a casual observer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on July 13, 2023, 10:08:16 AM
It’s not very embarrassing we lost to Panama given the roster we rolled out this tournament. The lesson from this tournament is what others have said already. No more Aaron Long, roldan, morris, arriola, acosta, miazga, Yedlin etc. MLS has beens who consistently under achieve with the national team have absolutely no business putting on the shirt.

I’m very concerned several of those names will continue to see call ups with GGG.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: drewm88 on July 13, 2023, 11:22:40 AM
That Sounders mystique that has allowed Roldan and his buddy Morris to amass a combined 92 caps.  Neither of them should be sniffing actual competition but continue to get call ups.  Its pathetic.  Its crazy that both of them are only 28 and will be cashing fat MLS paychecks well past the 2026 WC but also have no business being near a USMNT other than meaningless friendlies due to injuries.

I'm fine with the US not sending the A team to the Gold Cup.  But at least use it to blood young guys and see what they got.  I LOVE what Ive seen from Cowell.  Dude is a bull in a china shop.  Thats the kind of player that should be getting run.  Why no Caleb Wiley?  Why bring up Aiden Morris and then just play Roldan?  Its beyond frustrating.

This was just an AWFUL soccer match to watch for the majority of it, both as a US supporter, or just a casual observer.

Aidan Morris left camp for personal reasons after the group stage. The rest of your points stand.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 13, 2023, 11:29:41 AM
If you haven't watch the Dele interview, you need to.  One of my favorite players, wish him nothing but the best and hope he returns to glory.

https://youtu.be/9wsUnTugpjc (https://youtu.be/9wsUnTugpjc)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 13, 2023, 11:52:39 AM
Aidan Morris left camp for personal reasons after the group stage. The rest of your points stand.

Totally forgot that in my annoyance, you’re right
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 19, 2023, 08:48:38 AM
https://twitter.com/FulhamishPod/status/1681568598169378817?t=oD5lg4Z_6TR4FyxXZyCgtQ&s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 21, 2023, 07:32:22 PM
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3474900/why-hiring-gregg-berhalter-was-an-incredibly-dumb-decision-us-soccer-had-to-assure-gio-reyna-that-hed-have-a-role-on-the-team
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on July 21, 2023, 09:14:42 PM
Messi is incredible. Saw a game at Inter in the spring, what a different atmosphere in Miami tonight. Absolute GOAT
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on July 22, 2023, 06:17:01 AM
Messi is incredible. Saw a game at Inter in the spring, what a different atmosphere in Miami tonight. Absolute GOAT

Inter is hilariously bad. This may be Messi’s heaviest lift. He’s not my goat until he lifts hardware in America lol
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on July 22, 2023, 10:57:06 AM
Inter is hilariously bad. This may be Messi’s heaviest lift. He’s not my goat until he lifts hardware in America lol

Hah, fair. My seventeen year old couldn’t believe how bad Inter was.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 22, 2023, 11:52:53 AM
Messi is incredible. Saw a game at Inter in the spring, what a different atmosphere in Miami tonight. Absolute GOAT

Rigged
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on July 24, 2023, 09:54:20 AM
1 year, $1.1 billion for Mbappe to move from PSG to a Saudi team

What an offer
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 24, 2023, 11:07:02 AM
1 year, $1.1 billion for Mbappe to move from PSG to a Saudi team

What an offer

And he can leave on a free to Madrid after 1 year.

Maybe the Saudis will run out of money quicker than everyone thinks....
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 24, 2023, 06:48:19 PM
Can't wait to see how the people spin this development as Mbappe's fault.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on July 24, 2023, 08:33:37 PM
Fault? Certainly not. Massive benefit to him? Can hardly think of a situation that he would prefer more.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 25, 2023, 09:34:02 PM
Messi in the MLS is awesome for so many reasons.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on July 25, 2023, 11:25:59 PM
Messi in the MLS is awesome for so many reasons.

I’ll admit to not being the biggest Messi fan.  Far more a fan of Ray Hudson’s manic ravings about his play than Messi or Barca.  But this has been absolutely ELECTRIC.  Eclipsing Zlatan taking MLS by storm.

Zlatan joined MLS after 2 disappointing injury filled years at Man United.  Huge arrival and tons of buzz but you thought it was a 37 year old on his last legs.  That first match where he scored the brace in dramatic glorious fashion was incredible and he rampaged through the league for 2 seasons.

But Messi is coming off a really good season at PSG and winning an f-ing World Cup.  Not only that, he has one of the absolute best defensive midfielders in European history giving him service upfield.  It’s been incredible to watch a wizard like Busquests, who was sublime under pressure at the highest level, have all the time in the world to thread perfect balls to Messi.  It’s like 2 college stars coming back to play sandlot ball with their scrub former HS teammates.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Not A Serious Person on July 25, 2023, 11:34:29 PM
The Saudis are offering Mbappe $1.1 BILLION to play for ONE YEAR for Al Hilal.

Numbers no one understands.

Saudi Arabia paying €1billion for one year of Kylian Mbappe makes total sense for all sides
https://theathletic.com/4718492/2023/07/25/kylian-mbappe-saudi-arabia/

This is going to create chaos once the Saudis get serious, and instead of paying stupid money to one superstar and more intelligently spend this kind of money to produce 2 to 4 Champions League quality teams.

-----

ADDED ... imagine in a few years should, the Saudis get interested in basketball and offer hundreds of millions per year for the top players in the NBA to play in Saudia Arabia.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 26, 2023, 01:31:47 PM
The Saudis are offering Mbappe $1.1 BILLION to play for ONE YEAR for Al Hilal.

Numbers no one understands.

Saudi Arabia paying €1billion for one year of Kylian Mbappe makes total sense for all sides
https://theathletic.com/4718492/2023/07/25/kylian-mbappe-saudi-arabia/

This is going to create chaos once the Saudis get serious, and instead of paying stupid money to one superstar and more intelligently spend this kind of money to produce 2 to 4 Champions League quality teams.

-----

ADDED ... imagine in a few years should, the Saudis get interested in basketball and offer hundreds of millions per year for the top players in the NBA to play in Saudia Arabia.

Here is a good video you might enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txmzVsBniZQ
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on July 27, 2023, 10:22:30 AM
In their season finale, Oct. 21, Charlotte FC hosts Inter Miami. Messi doesn't like playing on artificial turf, and there was some thought that owner David Tepper would put in grass for the game to make sure Messi plays - ensuring a sellout. His willingness to put in grass for occasional events has ticked off Panthers players, who are still not happy Tepper switched to artificial turf a few years ago.

But Tepper's people announced recently that there are no plans to switch to grass for the game. Will the other MLS teams that also play on artificial turf also refuse to switch, or will some make the change? Will Messi play those games that aren't on grass? We'll see.

https://www.insidesport.in/lionel-messi-charlotte-fc-refuse-to-switch-from-artificial-to-natural-grass-for-messi/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MU82 on August 07, 2023, 06:59:18 AM
In the history of sports, what percentage of ultra-hyped athletes actually live up to the extreme hype? 0.5%? Less?

I'm not a soccer guy ... and even I've enjoyed watching what Messi has accomplished so far in his brief MLS career. The tying goal last night was absolutely incredible.

https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/status/1688392080920358913?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=7410069

He's got 7 goals in his 4 games for Miami, including 2 in each of the last 3 games, and he's singlehandedly turned a pathetic team into must-see TV. Pretty cool.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 07, 2023, 08:58:37 PM
MLS couldn't have asked for any better start and now ball is in their court to capitalize on it and increase their presence.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 07, 2023, 09:01:26 PM
MLS couldn't have asked for any better start and now ball is in their court to capitalize on it and increase their presence.

There are some sensational rumors about mbappe and Neymar considering mls moves. 🤷
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 10, 2023, 08:38:00 PM
1 manc
2 Arsenal
3 Chelsea
4 Liverpool
5 utd
6 Newcastle
7 Brighton 
8 villa 
9 spurs
10 Burnley
11 Fulham
12 Brentford
13 West Ham
14 Forrest
15 Bournemouth
16 palace
17 everton
18 Sheffield utd
19 wolves
20 Luton
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on August 10, 2023, 09:13:42 PM
So long Harry

#coys
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 10, 2023, 09:27:57 PM
So long Harry

#coys

Recruitment is going to be almost impossible for spurs. No Europe, minimal supporting cast and a proper hard manager who lacks cache/stature. Season starts early so integrating new players will be a challenge. Also levy completely butchered the Bale investment so I’m not wildly confident if I’m a spurs fan.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 14, 2023, 04:28:23 PM
Neymar to Saudi to join Koulibaly and Ruben Naves at Al-Hilal.  This is probably the most shocking of all the signings. Haven’t seen a wages figure yet but I’m sure it’s absolutely massive.

This will also be amusing cause while other stars like Benzema and Koulibaly are Muslims who have spoken about that appeal, Neymar is a rager party animal headed to a country with no nightclubs.

Also, while I’ve mentioned I don’t think the general money explosion of this years Saudi Pro League transfer bonanza is necessarily sport washing…Neymar‘s contract stating he gets $500K for any post about Saudi in his social media is absolutely the most shameless of sport washing
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 14, 2023, 05:24:16 PM
So is Neymar leaving why Mbappe returned? Also Neymar has been largely a disappointment career-wise. Granted he’s been injured…
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 14, 2023, 09:28:02 PM
So is Neymar leaving why Mbappe returned? Also Neymar has been largely a disappointment career-wise. Granted he’s been injured…

Largely a disappointment? That’s a heater.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 15, 2023, 03:46:24 AM
Largely a disappointment? That’s a heater.

Largely hasn’t fulfilled the expectations people had for him when he came out of Brazil?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 15, 2023, 12:00:10 PM
Largely hasn’t fulfilled the expectations people had for him when he came out of Brazil?

You're certainly not alone in that mentality, but I think Neymar is one of the most unfairly maligned/assessed players of a generation.  I completely understand the injury aspect, which has been truly unfortunate, but he's had a tremendous career.

One of only 3 players to ever score 100 goals for 3 different clubs, joining Cristiano Ronaldo and Romario (though Romario never did it at the elite levels like the other 2.  2 clubs in Brazil plus PSV).

Averaged better than a goal every other game in La Liga.  Even higher at PSG.

22 Goals in 40 matches in the UCL

77 goals for Brazil.

Couple POY Awards in Europe

Team achievements?  10 league titles, a Champions League and a Runners Up, A Confed Cup for Brazil and a Copa runner up

I think people have a negative perception of him due to diving and his perceived fragility.  But he's had a fantastic career statistically and been a key cog for very good machines.  And he had a stretch in the mid 2010s where, IMO, he was the clear 3rd best player in the world after Messi and Ronaldo.

Did he turn into the next Pele?  No.  But I don't think anything about his career could be deemed disappointing other than unfair expectations.  He's done extremely well given the huge pressure and expectations on his, not to mention constant racial antagonism he endured in Spain.  For my money he's the clear second best Brazilian ever.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on August 15, 2023, 12:00:50 PM
Largely hasn’t fulfilled the expectations people had for him when he came out of Brazil?

Sure, for some.

In a less cynical setting I think Neymar would be appreciated at a higher level. You mentioned injury and it's hampered him at key times but yet, on the whole, he's likely the next guy a level down from Messi/Ronaldo over the last decade.

Lack of team success with Brasil seems held against him but no other member of the program. And he'll finish as its greatest goal getter and likely score in four World Cups (which I think he'd be the only one to do it). Won everything on the club level between Barca/PSG. A career 99.9% could only dream about.



Edit: JWags in just before me with more context. Maligned is a good word to use regarding Neymar. It became fashionable for him to be the punching bag.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 15, 2023, 12:39:30 PM
I mean, winning everything (except Champions League) at PSG isn't really saying a lot...
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 15, 2023, 01:15:06 PM
I mean, winning everything (except Champions League) at PSG isn't really saying a lot...

He won a ton at Barca
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 15, 2023, 01:35:26 PM
I mean, winning everything (except Champions League) at PSG isn't really saying a lot...

He lead them to their only appearance in the Champions League final (post Zlatan and before Mbappe become a monster) and then the next year took them to the semis in the first year without Thiago Silva or Cavani in the squad in nearly a decade.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 15, 2023, 02:57:01 PM
He lead them to their only appearance in the Champions League final (post Zlatan and before Mbappe become a monster) and then the next year took them to the semis in the first year without Thiago Silva or Cavani in the squad in nearly a decade.

Mbappe wasn't a monster in 2019-20?
 


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 15, 2023, 05:16:30 PM
Mbappe wasn't a monster in 2019-20?

Not to the extend he has been post-COVID IMO.  I know Mbappe's 18-19 stats were huge, but it was still Neymar's team.  Mbappe was banged up and didn't play a chunk of 19-20 and his impact was less than usual down the stretch in the CL.  Not just scoring, but touches in general.  Neymar had one of his most effective and productive seasons at PSG in 19-20
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 18, 2023, 10:44:31 AM
Recruitment is going to be almost impossible for spurs. No Europe, minimal supporting cast and a proper hard manager who lacks cache/stature. Season starts early so integrating new players will be a challenge. Also levy completely butchered the Bale investment so I’m not wildly confident if I’m a spurs fan.

https://x.com/goalnews/status/1692452019435376764?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A

Lol
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 18, 2023, 10:57:54 AM
https://x.com/goalnews/status/1692452019435376764?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A

Lol

They aren't going to make a play for Ferguson.
Their focus is Gift Orban and/or Eze in this window, and perhaps Toney in January.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 18, 2023, 11:51:16 AM
They aren't going to make a play for Ferguson.
Their focus is Gift Orban and/or Eze in this window, and perhaps Toney in January.

This is showing the spurs premium that will have to be paid for replacements. Clubs that don’t need to sell and players that have little interest in playing only domestic soccer. It’s a hard sell
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 18, 2023, 12:05:16 PM
This is showing the spurs premium that will have to be paid for replacements. Clubs that don’t need to sell and players that have little interest in playing only domestic soccer. It’s a hard sell

Eh ... Spurs have landed all their top targets so far this window (Maddison, van de Ven, Solomon) without Europe.
The only arguable miss was Raya, but he wanted the move and agreed to terms. Spurs understandably didn't want to pay Brentford's 40 million ask (which, as it turns out, they weren't able to get anything close to for him).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 18, 2023, 12:09:07 PM
Neymar is being joined at Al-Hilal by Bono from Sevilla and soon to be Mitrovic from Fulham.

Sportwashing aside, Saudi Pro League has become legitimately interesting from a soccer quality perspective.  Ronaldo going was a highly paid circus.  Benzema and the first few were kind of interesting.  But looking at rosters, the 2 primary Riyadh clubs and the 2 Jeddah clubs, plus Al-Ettifaq (where Gerrard is manager) all have brought in 5-6 legit top 5 Euro league players and at least 2 "stars" each, many in their relative primes.  Its not just an aging star surrounded by middling Saudi players.

Contrast this with the Chinese Super League experiment 5-6 years ago.  Other than Oscar, the two biggest guys were Witsal and Hulk, who both were playing in the well compensated hinterland at Zenit.  Nowhere near the level of overall quality.

Whether this fizzles after a year or two like China did or if they keep building rosters remains to be seen, but well established geopolitical red flags aside, it wouldn't be bad soccer to watch.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 18, 2023, 12:15:46 PM
Neymar is being joined at Al-Hilal by Bono from Sevilla and soon to be Mitrovic from Fulham.

Sportwashing aside, Saudi Pro League has become legitimately interesting from a soccer quality perspective.  Ronaldo going was a highly paid circus.  Benzema and the first few were kind of interesting.  But looking at rosters, the 2 primary Riyadh clubs and the 2 Jeddah clubs, plus Al-Ettifaq (where Gerrard is manager) all have brought in 5-6 legit top 5 Euro league players and at least 2 "stars" each, many in their relative primes.  Its not just an aging star surrounded by middling Saudi players.

Contrast this with the Chinese Super League experiment 5-6 years ago.  Other than Oscar, the two biggest guys were Witsal and Hulk, who both were playing in the well compensated hinterland at Zenit.  Nowhere near the level of overall quality.

Whether this fizzles after a year or two like China did or if they keep building rosters remains to be seen, but well established geopolitical red flags aside, it wouldn't be bad soccer to watch.

Will probably depend on if they can coarse (i.e. bribe) their way into getting a spot in the Champions League, which they are already trying to do, as well as team up with Greece or another poorer European country for a joint bid for the 2034 WC (I think it would be to bold for them to go after 2030, think the COMNEBOL bid is all but locked up).
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 18, 2023, 12:42:32 PM
Eh ... Spurs have landed all their top targets so far this window (Maddison, van de Ven, Solomon) without Europe.
The only arguable miss was Raya, but he wanted the move and agreed to terms. Spurs understandably didn't want to pay Brentford's 40 million ask (which, as it turns out, they weren't able to get anything close to for him).

I’m more speaking to a direct replacement for kane. All of those guys came in before his departure. Richarlsion is not capable of leading the line and whomever Solomon is probably isn’t either.

If they want to remotely come close to
Europe, they need a true #9 and they’ll have to pay a hefty hefty fee.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 18, 2023, 04:10:14 PM
I’m more speaking to a direct replacement for kane. All of those guys came in before his departure. Richarlsion is not capable of leading the line and whomever Solomon is probably isn’t either.

If they want to remotely come close to
Europe, they need a true #9 and they’ll have to pay a hefty hefty fee.

Richarlison in his natural #9 spot, Son and Deki on the wings, improved midfield and attacking fullbacks will work just fine in the Ange system.

I think they'll finish 6th or 7th, but it is a rebuild season.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 18, 2023, 04:41:21 PM
I’m more speaking to a direct replacement for kane. All of those guys came in before his departure. Richarlsion is not capable of leading the line and whomever Solomon is probably isn’t either.

If they want to remotely come close to
Europe, they need a true #9 and they’ll have to pay a hefty hefty fee.

I'm not sure they want a direct replacement for Kane. I'm not sold on Richarlison, but Postecoglou's system doesn't really rely on a traditional 9 to carry the scoring load. They're definitely in the market for forwards and goal scorers, but judging by the names they've been associated with for the remainder of this window (Orban, Eze, Brennan Johnson) it doesn't seem they're on the hunt for a Kane clone.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 19, 2023, 07:31:19 AM
Richarlison in his natural #9 spot, Son and Deki on the wings, improved midfield and attacking fullbacks will work just fine in the Ange system.

I think they'll finish 6th or 7th, but it is a rebuild season.

Richarlison - lol the same guy that was almost on a suspension for taking his shirt off after scoring even though he was offsides every time ? No goals and almost on a suspension lol
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 25, 2023, 01:18:09 PM
More egg on their face; Mike Dean or Luis Rubiales?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2023, 01:42:08 PM
More egg on their face; Mike Dean or Luis Rubiales?

Mike Dean, far and away. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 25, 2023, 02:05:56 PM
Mike Dean, far and away.

See I was thinking the exact opposite.  Dean looks stupid, but had looked that way for a while, plus he said what everyone had kind of known for a while now, and got suspended for it.  Rubiales is dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodging his way around a situation where everyone is against him, and has made it clear that rather than resigning, he's going to have to be brought down kicking and screaming.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2023, 02:16:52 PM
See I was thinking the exact opposite.  Dean looks stupid, but had looked that way for a while, plus he said what everyone had kind of known for a while now, and got suspended for it.  Rubiales is dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodging his way around a situation where everyone is against him, and has made it clear that rather than resigning, he's going to have to be brought down kicking and screaming.

Rubiales seems like your typical corrupt, egotistical futbol executive that thinks he is above the law and decency.  An a$$hole, but one without impacting the game (other than the whole team boycotting.)

Dean confirms the corruption of the game itself in England. To me, that's a bigger deal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 25, 2023, 02:26:57 PM
Rubiales seems like your typical corrupt, egotistical futbol executive that thinks he is above the law and decency.  An a$$hole, but one without impacting the game (other than the whole team boycotting.)

Dean confirms the corruption of the game itself in England. To me, that's a bigger deal.

Dean confirms it, but again, it was already known.  He was never part of the VAR era, but Mark Clattenburg's interviews a few years back went a long way in raising the curtain to reveal the boys club that reffing is in England.

Rubiales went full blown "Wolf of Wall Street" with his "I'm not going to resign, I'm not going to resign, I'm not going to resign". He now has the entire women's team boycotting, and mens players are starting to jump on board as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 25, 2023, 02:34:47 PM
Easy - one questions the integrity of the game on a week in and week out basis. Rubiales will be out within the next week and everyone will be on their merry way.

Deane speaking to this after some terrible refereeing to kick off the prem this year only lights the fire under the conspiracy theorists. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 26, 2023, 11:02:43 AM
Arsenal football: A brief history

Today's match in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 26, 2023, 01:42:47 PM
Spurs fans singing we’ve got our Tottenham back after scraping by United at home and beating Bournemouth surely won’t come back to bite them later on this season lol
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on August 26, 2023, 02:10:08 PM
Spurs fans singing we’ve got our Tottenham back after scraping by United at home and beating Bournemouth surely won’t come back to bite them later on this season lol

God forbid fans enjoy themselves.
You must be a blast at parties.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 26, 2023, 04:17:19 PM
God forbid fans enjoy themselves.
You must be a blast at parties.

You’re right. Strong proclamation from the fans. And they’re right. Spurs are back taking 7 of nine points from two mid table teams and an out of sorts united. Can’t wait to see what they do in a hypothetical stretch against villa Fulham and west ham.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 27, 2023, 03:53:54 PM
Liverpool absolute mentality monsters two weeks in a row. Incredible win up north against all odds. Very tough game against villa coming up.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on August 27, 2023, 05:53:24 PM
Liverpool absolute mentality monsters two weeks in a row. Incredible win up north against all odds. Very tough game against villa coming up.

Great book
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 27, 2023, 08:40:17 PM
Great book

A phenomenal story and great events to relive. I still believe that front three rivals only Neymar, Messi and Suarez for best attacking front in recent memory.

That 3-0 first leg in champions league 1/4 finals against city was an absolute wrecking ball performance that left pep and the squad in shambles.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 27, 2023, 09:44:54 PM
Liverpool absolute mentality monsters two weeks in a row. Incredible win up north against all odds. Very tough game against villa coming up.

Absolutely astounding result.  HORRIBLE goal given up by all too common TAA lax defending.  Then, a harsh red (I don't think it was the wrong call, per se, but it was not a malicious challenge, wasn't particularly late, and got a TON of ball.  I get the DOGSO reasoning, but still rough).  I actually think that woke them up, but even being the better team seemed not to matter down 1.

Then not 1, but 2 clinical finishes by Nunez who has been everything but in his time with Liverpool.  Just stunning.  The before and after shushing with Klopp was perfect.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 28, 2023, 07:42:28 AM
Newcastle had about a dozen chances to put it away too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 28, 2023, 08:26:26 AM
Newcastle had about a dozen chances to put it away too.

Alisson had 1 or 2 MONSTER saves that broke Newcastle's momentum for sure.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on August 28, 2023, 09:36:12 AM
Absolutely astounding result.  HORRIBLE goal given up by all too common TAA lax defending.  Then, a harsh red (I don't think it was the wrong call, per se, but it was not a malicious challenge, wasn't particularly late, and got a TON of ball.  I get the DOGSO reasoning, but still rough).  I actually think that woke them up, but even being the better team seemed not to matter down 1.

Then not 1, but 2 clinical finishes by Nunez who has been everything but in his time with Liverpool.  Just stunning.  The before and after shushing with Klopp was perfect.

Letter of the law, I think the ref probably got it right. Silly challenge to make there, especially with Ali behind him.

Klopp has to figure a solution to the Trent problem. Either play him as a midfielder or put the reins on a bit at right back. It unbalances them and leads to far too many 1v1, 2v2 opportunities against the center halves.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 28, 2023, 09:48:36 AM
Absolutely astounding result.  HORRIBLE goal given up by all too common TAA lax defending.  Then, a harsh red (I don't think it was the wrong call, per se, but it was not a malicious challenge, wasn't particularly late, and got a TON of ball.  I get the DOGSO reasoning, but still rough).  I actually think that woke them up, but even being the better team seemed not to matter down 1.

Then not 1, but 2 clinical finishes by Nunez who has been everything but in his time with Liverpool.  Just stunning.  The before and after shushing with Klopp was perfect.

For me that’s always a red. Badly timed, poorly positioned last man challenge. Very out of character for Vvd.

I’ve always been somewhat frustrated Liverpool never purchased a true back up right back for TAA competition. Neither Gomez nor Milner are natural rbs. They’ve filled in well but they’ve never brought in a direct competitor for him. This year would be perfect too given the lack of true midfield depth.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on August 28, 2023, 12:42:15 PM
For me that’s always a red. Badly timed, poorly positioned last man challenge. Very out of character for Vvd.

I’ve always been somewhat frustrated Liverpool never purchased a true back up right back for TAA competition. Neither Gomez nor Milner are natural rbs. They’ve filled in well but they’ve never brought in a direct competitor for him. This year would be perfect too given the lack of true midfield depth.

Especially since they did it for LB with Tsimikas, even though Robertson is a far more reliable and pure LB.

I understood why they did it for awhile, but TAA's defending has only gotten worse.  His ball watching is just horrific these days.

They've shored up the midfield depth a bit, but they really should still be hunting an RB for option.  Especially since they have 5 CBs.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 28, 2023, 03:12:04 PM
Especially since they did it for LB with Tsimikas, even though Robertson is a far more reliable and pure LB.

I understood why they did it for awhile, but TAA's defending has only gotten worse.  His ball watching is just horrific these days.

They've shored up the midfield depth a bit, but they really should still be hunting an RB for option.  Especially since they have 5 CBs.

Especially especially after the amount of games he's played the last few seasons. They completely change their shape whenever he's not in the team too. Very odd not to go after someone IMO
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 29, 2023, 03:49:23 PM
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/08/gregg-berhalter-coach-us-mens-soccer-team?mbid=social_twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_social-type=owned&utm_brand=vf&utm_source=twitter

Ggg would rather do an interview talking about how difficult it is to handle the Gio situation than actually speak with him. What a coward.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wadesworld on August 29, 2023, 03:57:28 PM
Going to the US vs. Uzbekistan friendly in St. Louis on next weekend.  Sounds like the club season is on break.  What kind of roster can I expect for that game?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 29, 2023, 03:59:22 PM
Going to the US vs. Uzbekistan friendly in St. Louis on next weekend.  Sounds like the club season is on break.  What kind of roster can I expect for that game?

My guess is a lot of Americans playing against a lot of Uzbeks.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 29, 2023, 04:13:59 PM
Going to the US vs. Uzbekistan friendly in St. Louis on next weekend.  Sounds like the club season is on break.  What kind of roster can I expect for that game?

Ccv, Reyna, Sargent, booth, Adams, ldlt, zendejas, dike and Zimmerman are all injured. Also several guys with new club situations that hopefully won’t get called up. So probably more of the same MLS also rans that ggg loves so very much.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on August 30, 2023, 02:12:38 PM
Ccv, Reyna, Sargent, booth, Adams, ldlt, zendejas, dike and Zimmerman are all injured. Also several guys with new club situations that hopefully won’t get called up. So probably more of the same MLS also rans that ggg loves so very much.

Shockingly solid team selection from GGG. My only nitpicks would be a couple of guys on the back end of the roster but quite frankly I'm pleasantly shocked from this group selected.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: noblewarrior on August 31, 2023, 07:47:56 AM
Shockingly solid team selection from GGG. My only nitpicks would be a couple of guys on the back end of the roster but quite frankly I'm pleasantly shocked from this group selected.

Link here: https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2023/08/berhalter-selects-24-player-biosteel-usmnt-training-camp-roster-ahead-of-september-matches
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on August 31, 2023, 12:22:09 PM
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/draws/

I can't remember the last time a group was as wide open as Group F is.  Everything else seems fairly straightforward for the most part, with the Pot 1 and 2 teams have favorites to go through.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 10, 2023, 08:00:57 AM
Berhalter soccer terrorism back and badder than ever
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on September 13, 2023, 04:51:58 AM
Last night was better, consistently pressured in the first half and didn't need until the 90th to break through in the second. But boy was that Aaronson free kick one of the worst free kick goals I've ever seen. Should've been blocked by the wall but it totally came apart, still should've been a routine save but the keeper slipped. Can't believe that hit the back of the net.

https://x.com/lefootyoracle/status/1701818496726802653?s=46&t=y09G3XF0pbaZZc_-K-dYSw
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 13, 2023, 05:59:23 AM
Last night was better, consistently pressured in the first half and didn't need until the 90th to break through in the second. But boy was that Aaronson free kick one of the worst free kick goals I've ever seen. Should've been blocked by the wall but it totally came apart, still should've been a routine save but the keeper slipped. Can't believe that hit the back of the net.

https://x.com/lefootyoracle/status/1701818496726802653?s=46&t=y09G3XF0pbaZZc_-K-dYSw

Lol - the usmnt twitter called it a free kick stunner !

I don’t think Balogun should be an automatic name on the team sheet. Pepi is as good if not better than him in the us jersey. Great and unique problem to have as usmnt fans.

Will be VERY interesting next window. Reyna is nearing fitness back training with Dortmund. If he stays on track, he’ll be ready for national team duty…
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wadesworld on September 13, 2023, 04:51:39 PM
Went to the game on Saturday.  The stadium in St. Louis is very nice.  I don't know crap about soccer, but it seems like Turner is a stud, Dest and Ream seem really good, Weah looked like the best player on the field to me, I know Pulisic is legit but he was not good Saturday, in my opinion, and Tessmann looked like he would've been cut from Marquette High's JV team.

The AO Chicago guy who leads the cheers is the real MVP though.  Can't imagine yelling like that for 2 hours.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on September 17, 2023, 10:34:39 AM
https://the18.com/soccer-news/berhalter-balogun-tension-rumor-has-some-usmnt-fans-concerned/132346
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mug644 on September 27, 2023, 09:22:26 AM
I'm in western MA, and considering going to the USMNT game in Hartford against Germany on Oct 14th. I don't have tickets yet (would only be looking for one), and wonder if anyone has recommendations for the best/cheapest way to get a decent seat. Is it via what seems to be the official place for the team, on Ticketmaster? Any guess on whether I'd pay more or less than face value if I just go to the stadium that day? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 30, 2023, 01:34:35 PM
I will say spurs under Ange mentality impresses me, but they may be the luckiest team of all time.

They had no business taking points from
This game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on September 30, 2023, 02:07:27 PM
I will say spurs under Ange mentality impresses me, but they may be the luckiest team of all time.

They had no business taking points from
This game.

Some of the most atrocious officiating I’ve ever seen.  Jones straight red will 100% be overturned.  Diaz was onside for the waved off LFC goal (which they inexplicably showed no lines for on the broadcast) and Jota’s second yellow was deserved but the first yellow was an absolute joke.

Credit to Spurs for applying the pressure enough to get a result but my word Liverpool got screwed.  And I’m very slow to blame officiating in soccer
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on September 30, 2023, 02:10:30 PM
Yeah I had to laugh at how they've been lauded for persevering today. FFS they were handed the three points and bobbled it over the finish line.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 30, 2023, 06:48:52 PM
Poor LiVARpool.   :'( :'(
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on September 30, 2023, 07:34:30 PM
Justice for Moussa Sissoko.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on September 30, 2023, 07:43:37 PM
Spurs looked toothless against 10 men at home. Took everything going against Liverpool for them to win on an OG in the dying moments against 9 men. Lucky to get a point against arsenal. Very lucky to escape against Sheffield.

Their house of cards will come crashing down around the festive season when their lack of depth is exposed. Although crashing out in the second round of the league cup will help ease fixture congestion.

After the first 1/4 of the season gone, I see a three team race at the top with arsenal Liverpool and manc. Will definitely be the most competive title race in recent memory. Race for 4th and 5th champions league spots will be fun too. Newcastle and villa are my picks there.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 04, 2023, 10:21:34 AM
A 6 country, 3 continent World Cup, really?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 04, 2023, 10:30:15 AM
A 6 country, 3 continent World Cup, really?

Uruguay, Argentina and Paraguay are hosting the first three games because its the 100th anniversary of the first tournament played in Uruguay.

Everything else will be in Spain, Portugal and Morocco, which will be much easier travel-wise than 2026 will be.

So IMO it's pretty cool. Unless they spread it out like this, only a handful of countries are ever going to have the infrastructure to host the entire tournament. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 04, 2023, 10:41:19 AM
Uruguay, Argentina and Paraguay are hosting the first three games because its the 100th anniversary of the first tournament played in Uruguay.

Everything else will be in Spain, Portugal and Morocco, which will be much easier travel-wise than 2026 will be.

So IMO it's pretty cool. Unless they spread it out like this, only a handful of countries are ever going to have the infrastructure to host the entire tournament.

I have no problem with multiple countries, but do Argentina/Uruguay/Paraguay or Portugal/Spain/Morocco.  Whoever gets the draw of playing in one of the first three games which will essentially be a road game, and then has a multi time zone shift to play their second match against a team that has been in Europe/Africa the whole time will have a legitimate gripe against FIFA.  2026 you're at least locked into a west/central/east region for the group stages.  Also, qualifying format gets even weirder with 6 auto-bids. I understand that multi-country hosting is now inevitable, but this does not seem like the best solution.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 04, 2023, 10:48:20 AM
My guess is they wanted to do it in South America on the 100th anniversary, but that they just don't have the infrastructure for the whole cup unless they include Brazil.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 04, 2023, 10:59:43 AM
My guess is they wanted to do it in South America on the 100th anniversary, but that they just don't have the infrastructure for the whole cup unless they include Brazil.

I'm sure that's the reason, but again, this doesn't seem like the best solution. 

As much as it is a nice sentiment, if FIFA had just told the COMNEBOL countries that they can't host because they don't have the infrastructure and that's why it's going to SP/PR/MR, I'm not sure anyone would be up in arms.

FIFA also now has to figure out what they're going to do with the rule about rotating between continents because that's clearly going out the window.  There are already rumors that Saudi Arabia is going to offer Greece billions to put towards their infrastructure in an agreement to try and co-host a 2034.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 04, 2023, 11:13:37 AM
My guess is they wanted to do it in South America on the 100th anniversary, but that they just don't have the infrastructure for the whole cup unless they include Brazil.

Yea, honestly, while the host countries would have squawked, I think having the WC in SP/PR/MR and then the semis and finals in SA would have been a more meaningful solution if they truly wanted to incorporate the locations for the 100th.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 04, 2023, 12:51:32 PM
https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1709604733915132301?t=xzSaxWBiOjezZUCF-TvEWg&s=19

Are they even considering joining with Greece now?

Also, can we just award them the bid and skip over the bribes and fake moral outrage?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 04, 2023, 04:05:03 PM
So so dumb. And this is coming from an organization that hosted a November tournament in the desert with zero infrastructure.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mug644 on October 13, 2023, 11:21:14 AM
Anyone else going to be in Hartford tomorrow for the USMNT game against Germany?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 14, 2023, 08:06:23 AM
I’ll be watching - what a huge window. Not sure what usmnt have planned for the 2024 window, but these games will be probably the biggest tests before the copa. Excited/nervous to see how ggg lines the team up. Balogun not so subtlety hinting he wants a #10 behind him and to stop ggg endorsed spamming worthless crosses into the box. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 14, 2023, 04:54:08 PM
Fun first 35 minutes. GGG ball returns for the rest of the game. Still waiting on Berhalter to beat any team of quality…
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 14, 2023, 06:00:08 PM
Fun first 35 minutes. GGG ball returns for the rest of the game. Still waiting on Berhalter to beat any team of quality…

Picked a perfect starting XI, team showed up strongly…then he got completely out-tactic’d
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 14, 2023, 06:46:32 PM
Picked a perfect starting XI, team showed up strongly…then he got completely out-tactic’d

To be completely fair - Dest and richards were horrible. Scally offered very little going forward and the overall play out of the back was pathetic. Not competing for 3/4’s of the game at home against a team who’s struggled mightily the last year is a very bad omen. Berhalter’s track record against teams with a pulse is horrendous and will most likely end in embarrassment with the copa on home soil next year. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 14, 2023, 07:32:07 PM
To be completely fair - Dest and richards were horrible. Scally offered very little going forward and the overall play out of the back was pathetic. Not competing for 3/4’s of the game at home against a team who’s struggled mightily the last year is a very bad omen. Berhalter’s track record against teams with a pulse is horrendous and will most likely end in embarrassment with the copa on home soil next year.

Does it matter that teams like Germany are bringing on subs that start for teams like Bayern while USMNT is..not?

GGG is 4-4-5 vs top 20 FIFA teams with 3 wins over mex. That ain't gonna get it done if you have aspirations of winning at the highest levels.

GGG has shown he's not significantly able to get more than the sum of his parts.

So, I guess he needs better parts? Or the US needs a drastically better manager? But is there one out there who could take these parts to a top 5-10 team?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 14, 2023, 07:56:04 PM
Does it matter that teams like Germany are bringing on subs that start for teams like Bayern while USMNT is..not?

GGG is 4-4-5 vs top 20 FIFA teams with 3 wins over mex. That ain't gonna get it done if you have aspirations of winning at the highest levels.

GGG has shown he's not significantly able to get more than the sum of his parts.

So, I guess he needs better parts? Or the US needs a drastically better manager? But is there one out there who could take these parts to a top 5-10 team?

Jim Curtin, Tata Martino and Thierry Henry all immediately come to mind. Wonder if Roberto Martinez wouldve been interested. GGG has zero managerial success whatsoever in multiple different settings. It’s not that wild of a jump to say a new manager would improve the quality of play.

Berhalther’s absolute refusal to use a #10 is managerial malpractice. Especially with a 9 like who likes to run off defenders back shoulders and play in tight spaces. We saw how much more fluid the play was with Gio in the first 45 and then it completely evaporated when de la Torre came on and it didn’t look like he knew where he was supposed to play. Jonathan Tah playing on the outside right and we don’t try and exploit that ?! The guy is a statue and they have him playing out wide. That’s where Germany is at now.

Germany was horrible post World Cup. The result should’ve been much different playing at home with our best 11. Most of which are playing important roles for clubs who are top or near top of the respective league tables. The talent gap is not nearly as wide as it may have been in years past.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 14, 2023, 08:11:42 PM
GGG is going to be their manger through 2026 unless Copa really blows up on them.

But Thierry Henry? Cmon…
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 14, 2023, 08:16:09 PM
GGG is going to be their manger through 2026 unless Copa really blows up on them.

But Thierry Henry? Cmon…

A guy with who would walk in with massive respect from each of the players, as well as a pedigree coaching in the international game? Do your homework
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 14, 2023, 08:22:45 PM
We got some good early chances, but most of the meaningful football even in the first 35 was played in our defensive third. Pulisic's goal was nice, but the result seems fair. I guess the hope is that these guys play together enough to gel as a unit in the next 3 years. I mean, probably 8 or 9 spots are already locked down if we're healthy. Just a matter of being as cohesive as those pieces can be.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 14, 2023, 08:25:33 PM
A guy with who would walk in with massive respect from each of the players, as well as a pedigree coaching in the international game? Do your homework

He was a disaster at both Monaco and Montréal the two times he was an actual manager.

Tata would be great. But he’s actually a proven guy. Henry? Not so much.

It’s all just a thought exercise anyway. GGG is going nowhere.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 14, 2023, 08:33:12 PM
He was a disaster at both Monaco and Montréal the two times he was an actual manager.

Tata would be great. But he’s actually a proven guy. Henry? Not so much.

It’s all just a thought exercise anyway. GGG is going nowhere.

Inherited a disaster at Monaco and wasn’t given enough time. Montreal sold their two best players in pre season, didn’t replace them and he made the playoffs despite it. Top assistant with Roberto Martinez with belgium with the players backing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 14, 2023, 08:36:15 PM
We got some good early chances, but most of the meaningful football even in the first 35 was played in our defensive third. Pulisic's goal was nice, but the result seems fair. I guess the hope is that these guys play together enough to gel as a unit in the next 3 years. I mean, probably 8 or 9 spots are already locked down if we're healthy. Just a matter of being as cohesive as those pieces can be.

I was ready to give the manager credit after the start. Looked like the genuinely had a plan of drawing Germany in and crushing them on the counter. However the play out of the back quickly went downhill and we got rid of a number 10 at halftime…(not that Gio would’ve kept playing, but ldlt clearly didn’t have any true direction in the second half)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 14, 2023, 08:49:20 PM
Inherited a disaster at Monaco and wasn’t given enough time. Montreal sold their two best players in pre season, didn’t replace them and he made the playoffs despite it. Top assistant with Roberto Martinez with belgium with the players backing.

Ahh…. 

I guess if you’re going to come up with excuses for poor performance, YOU could be manager right?

“Do your homework.”  😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 14, 2023, 08:52:08 PM
“Hey this guy who went 15-9-27 as manager would be great for USMNT” said one guy

Everyone else:  😬😬😬
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 14, 2023, 08:57:58 PM
Inherited a disaster at Monaco and wasn’t given enough time. Montreal sold their two best players in pre season, didn’t replace them and he made the playoffs despite it. Top assistant with Roberto Martinez with belgium with the players backing.

I still don’t think he has the pedigree as a manager to justify it.  That being said, he has a huge opportunity now with the French U-21s and the Olympics to show something.

Curtin doesn’t excite me, but he’s a damn good MLS manager and his managerial resume crushes GGG.

My reach, though he likely wouldn’t be interested, would be Pellegrino Matarazzo
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 14, 2023, 09:04:18 PM
“Hey this guy who went 15-9-27 as manager would be great for USMNT” said one guy

Everyone else:  😬😬😬

Context matters unless you’re debatingn with a guy who’s main outlet of comprehension is googling as he goes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 14, 2023, 09:19:12 PM
Context matters unless you’re debatingn with a guy who’s main outlet of comprehension is googling as he goes.

Actually I’m just parroting what Homer told me at a Tosa fish fry last night.  A friend of mine who works for US soccer told me the same thing.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 14, 2023, 09:33:58 PM
Actually I’m just parroting what Homer told me at a Tosa fish fry last night.  A friend of mine who works for US soccer told me the same thing.

So clearly out of your depths here that you resort back to an argument you think you won but cowardly wouldn’t even make an honest attempt to confirm what you believe to be fact.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 14, 2023, 09:47:23 PM
So clearly out of your depths here that you resort back to an argument you think you won but cowardly wouldn’t even make an honest attempt to confirm what you believe to be fact.

Message me coward!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 14, 2023, 09:50:54 PM
Anyway, you were laughably wrong then. Just like now.

At least you’re consistent.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 14, 2023, 10:07:46 PM
Anyway, you were laughably wrong then. Just like now.

At least you’re consistent.

No I’m not. Henry took over his boyhood club a 1/4 of the way through the season after the previous manager left a dumpster fire. They didn’t even give him a full year and nowhere near sufficient resources in the Jan transfer window after starting with the deck stacked completely against him. Set up for failure and I doubt he takes the job if it’s anyone but his boyhood club. I already explained his mls stint. Context matters unless you want to be an argumentative pric*
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 14, 2023, 10:10:28 PM
No I’m not. Henry took over his boyhood club a 1/4 of the way through the season after the previous manager left a dumpster fire. They didn’t even give him a full year and nowhere near sufficient resources in the Jan transfer window after starting with the deck stacked completely against him. Set up for failure and I doubt he takes the job if it’s anyone but his boyhood club. I already explained his mls stint. Context matters unless you want to be an argumentative pric*

You should message me a third time to show how much I own you.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 14, 2023, 10:11:12 PM
You should message me a third time to show how much I own you.

You asked me to message you and I did…..
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 14, 2023, 10:14:18 PM
You asked me to message you and I did…..

…I own you.

As I said…
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 14, 2023, 10:16:27 PM
As I said…

“I’m right!” Why ? “Because I am!”

You sound like a three year old
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 14, 2023, 11:00:32 PM
Henry did a terrible job at Monaco. He also was put in a pretty much impossible/unwinnable situation.  Both can be true…

Monaco was a disaster.  They fired Jardim after winning Ligue 1 and finishing 2nd the previous 2 years.  Then sacking Henry after literally 3 months, they brought Jardim BACK.  Then got rid of him again the following fall.  Dysfunction Junction.

As I said before, I don’t think Henry has the pedigree yet to manage the USMNT, but I don’t really hold Monaco much against him
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mug644 on October 14, 2023, 11:59:01 PM
I did go today, and it was energetic and insightful. Here's the summary I shared with my brother, like me a long time soccer player and fan...

"First, it was fun, fun. Definitely the highest level football I’ve ever seen live. Exciting to see Pulisic, Balogun, McKennie et al, plus German stars like Hummels, Budinger, Haevert, Goudagan and even Muellers came on at the end. I had a good seat and the crowd was enjoying it.

The reality is that the German team, even in a degree of disarray at the moment with a new coach and a changing of the guard of generations, is notably better than the US, unless we are totally on the top of our game. And we weren’t. (I think such a missing link is Tyler Adams.) We had decent energy and ambition, but didn’t have patience and skills, crucial needs against top European teams; remember what the Dutch did in our R16 game at the World Cup? They just waited until we strung ourselves too thin and then attacked. Similar today.

The German defense was simply solid and didn’t give space. Even our runs to open balls were generally shut down. Christian’s goal was impressive, and it was evident in the minutes before it that he was angry that he wasn’t awarded a penalty kick. Chatting with a couple of guys at halftime, we all agreed that on the no-call, he had a poor first touch than played for the penalty. Yes, maybe the goalie got him, but (without seeing it again yet) it seemed like a decent no-call. Tim Weah is so f***ing fast. He attacks whenever he has space and is face up. If his crossing improves and we can consistently get guys in the middle when he is streaking down the right wing, look out. Balogun didn’t show too much, but it’s clear that he is a threat. He moves to the ball so well, and our players need to get used to him, and get him the damn ball. Gio is skilled, and is a cry baby. Not so evident during his (first and only) half, except for his impetuousness grabbing a guy’s shirt twice just at the end of the half. I think he knew he wouldn’t be back in the second half and so acted up. He deserved a yellow card. But, I watched him during warm ups. He was the only, the only, guy who threw his arms up and sulked away if he didn’t hit his mark when practicing shots. From my ignorant point of view, he still has a lot of maturing to do. (Christian, I think, used to be that way, but has grown.)

Our defense was adequate at the outset, but vulnerable. Once Germany realized they could just push up the center, then use the wings if necessary, we were basically torn apart. Tim Ream is steady and solid, but slow. I wasn’t a fan of Chris Richards, but Cameron Carter-Vickers didn’t do much better as his sub. I tend to be more comfortable with Miles Robinson and/or Walter Zimmerman as center backs. Still, it’s nice to have options. I love Sergino Dest’s energy and skills, but question his decision-making sometimes. Yet, I always want him on the pitch. I hope that Joe Scally is only seen as a second stringer at this point. So unremarkable, and nothing compared to Jedi Robinson, who’s still out injured. And Matt Turner still struggles with balls at his feet. Germany was smart to press high, and it made the defense anxious to get the ball up the field.

The midfield is the toughest, and especially so for Berhalter as he figures out how to deal with Gio amongst a quality set of midfielders and wings. I dig Yunus Musah in so many ways—his casualness, his passing, his footwork, his passing—but I feel like he didn’t do much today. (The guys I was chatting with at halftime disagreed with me.) I think his attacking skill is most important, and he needs to know that someone such as Tyler Adams is playing defensive midfield to help cover for him. McKennie, such a charismatic guy to watch, doesn’t offer that support to Musah. Today’s starting midfield of Musah, Gio and McKennie are too forward-looking too often, which I think led to Germany being able to come right into the heart of our defense. And, they weren’t consistently able to support the defense in starting an attack from our own third.

I continue to know that the future can be bright, and I remain concerned that we don’t (and maybe never will) have the ability and players to put it all together. I know folks want to put that on Berhalter, and I won’t argue that. Still, he’s the horse we’re riding now, and the players need to find their way in his system. That said, with players like Balogun and Gio, GGG needs to be willing to change his system (he did change the formation in the first half with Gio, and without Adams)."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 15, 2023, 07:37:20 AM
I did go today, and it was energetic and insightful. Here's the summary I shared with my brother, like me a long time soccer player and fan...

"First, it was fun, fun. Definitely the highest level football I’ve ever seen live. Exciting to see Pulisic, Balogun, McKennie et al, plus German stars like Hummels, Budinger, Haevert, Goudagan and even Muellers came on at the end. I had a good seat and the crowd was enjoying it.

The reality is that the German team, even in a degree of disarray at the moment with a new coach and a changing of the guard of generations, is notably better than the US, unless we are totally on the top of our game. And we weren’t. (I think such a missing link is Tyler Adams.) We had decent energy and ambition, but didn’t have patience and skills, crucial needs against top European teams; remember what the Dutch did in our R16 game at the World Cup? They just waited until we strung ourselves too thin and then attacked. Similar today.

The German defense was simply solid and didn’t give space. Even our runs to open balls were generally shut down. Christian’s goal was impressive, and it was evident in the minutes before it that he was angry that he wasn’t awarded a penalty kick. Chatting with a couple of guys at halftime, we all agreed that on the no-call, he had a poor first touch than played for the penalty. Yes, maybe the goalie got him, but (without seeing it again yet) it seemed like a decent no-call. Tim Weah is so f***ing fast. He attacks whenever he has space and is face up. If his crossing improves and we can consistently get guys in the middle when he is streaking down the right wing, look out. Balogun didn’t show too much, but it’s clear that he is a threat. He moves to the ball so well, and our players need to get used to him, and get him the damn ball. Gio is skilled, and is a cry baby. Not so evident during his (first and only) half, except for his impetuousness grabbing a guy’s shirt twice just at the end of the half. I think he knew he wouldn’t be back in the second half and so acted up. He deserved a yellow card. But, I watched him during warm ups. He was the only, the only, guy who threw his arms up and sulked away if he didn’t hit his mark when practicing shots. From my ignorant point of view, he still has a lot of maturing to do. (Christian, I think, used to be that way, but has grown.)

Our defense was adequate at the outset, but vulnerable. Once Germany realized they could just push up the center, then use the wings if necessary, we were basically torn apart. Tim Ream is steady and solid, but slow. I wasn’t a fan of Chris Richards, but Cameron Carter-Vickers didn’t do much better as his sub. I tend to be more comfortable with Miles Robinson and/or Walter Zimmerman as center backs. Still, it’s nice to have options. I love Sergino Dest’s energy and skills, but question his decision-making sometimes. Yet, I always want him on the pitch. I hope that Joe Scally is only seen as a second stringer at this point. So unremarkable, and nothing compared to Jedi Robinson, who’s still out injured. And Matt Turner still struggles with balls at his feet. Germany was smart to press high, and it made the defense anxious to get the ball up the field.

The midfield is the toughest, and especially so for Berhalter as he figures out how to deal with Gio amongst a quality set of midfielders and wings. I dig Yunus Musah in so many ways—his casualness, his passing, his footwork, his passing—but I feel like he didn’t do much today. (The guys I was chatting with at halftime disagreed with me.) I think his attacking skill is most important, and he needs to know that someone such as Tyler Adams is playing defensive midfield to help cover for him. McKennie, such a charismatic guy to watch, doesn’t offer that support to Musah. Today’s starting midfield of Musah, Gio and McKennie are too forward-looking too often, which I think led to Germany being able to come right into the heart of our defense. And, they weren’t consistently able to support the defense in starting an attack from our own third.

I continue to know that the future can be bright, and I remain concerned that we don’t (and maybe never will) have the ability and players to put it all together. I know folks want to put that on Berhalter, and I won’t argue that. Still, he’s the horse we’re riding now, and the players need to find their way in his system. That said, with players like Balogun and Gio, GGG needs to be willing to change his system (he did change the formation in the first half with Gio, and without Adams)."

I wish Johnny would’ve seen more burn. He’s the only like for like swap for Adams and this would’ve been the perfect opportunity to see how he performed in that role. 15 minute cameo after the game was decided won’t do much to answer that question.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 15, 2023, 09:29:50 AM
Henry did a terrible job at Monaco. He also was put in a pretty much impossible/unwinnable situation.  Both can be true…

Monaco was a disaster.  They fired Jardim after winning Ligue 1 and finishing 2nd the previous 2 years.  Then sacking Henry after literally 3 months, they brought Jardim BACK.  Then got rid of him again the following fall.  Dysfunction Junction.

As I said before, I don’t think Henry has the pedigree yet to manage the USMNT, but I don’t really hold Monaco much against him

Reasonable take - I like him because his playing pedigree will offer a signifant amount of respect from the players. He has international experience with Belgium. International management is setting up the team the proper way, correct player selection and a quick adjustment in game to change the flow. A smart hire as an assistant can help with those. Also this usmnt coach has a unique responsibility as the country is hosting the copa and the WC. Henry is a awesome on the podium/mic and would be a great representation.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 15, 2023, 01:47:39 PM
https://twitter.com/YanksAreComing/status/1713626686573445609?t=lhs5LXOlx6i4_W9S-2cXlw&s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 15, 2023, 02:55:51 PM
https://twitter.com/YanksAreComing/status/1713626686573445609?t=lhs5LXOlx6i4_W9S-2cXlw&s=19

This has been well known for awhile, yet still makes no sense. The pettiness towards certain players from US Soccer and GGG is pathetic.

I get it last year when he was in the wilderness after leaving Wolfsburg.  But he’s only 30, tons of international experience, and is a starting CB in pretty good form for a top 5 club in the Bundesliga right now.  To not have him be useful depth over someone inferior like Mark McKenzie or a liability like Miles Robinson (much less Aaron damn Long) is insane to me
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 15, 2023, 05:28:15 PM
This has been well known for awhile, yet still makes no sense. The pettiness towards certain players from US Soccer and GGG is pathetic.

I get it last year when he was in the wilderness after leaving Wolfsburg.  But he’s only 30, tons of international experience, and is a starting CB in pretty good form for a top 5 club in the Bundesliga right now.  To not have him be useful depth over someone inferior like Mark McKenzie or a liability like Miles Robinson (much less Aaron damn Long) is insane to me

I will never understand the return to GGG. There was obviously a problem in the program with him here. Why do you effectively dismiss him only to go right back to the same thing? It's been what, a few months and we're already seeing problems crop back up? This is why I never like to see a manager get more than one cycle at the NT level. You need fresh eyes to look at the new crop, to reevaluate where your talent lies, and to shuffle the deck again. Managers that remain get stuck on the players they like. We saw the same with Arena after 2002, Bradley after 2010, and Klinsmann after 2014. It's ridiculous that he's back in charge, especially when they tore off that scab already.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 15, 2023, 05:50:01 PM
I will never understand the return to GGG. There was obviously a problem in the program with him here. Why do you effectively dismiss him only to go right back to the same thing? It's been what, a few months and we're already seeing problems crop back up? This is why I never like to see a manager get more than one cycle at the NT level. You need fresh eyes to look at the new crop, to reevaluate where your talent lies, and to shuffle the deck again. Managers that remain get stuck on the players they like. We saw the same with Arena after 2002, Bradley after 2010, and Klinsmann after 2014. It's ridiculous that he's back in charge, especially when they tore off that scab already.

I agree that he shouldn't have been rehired and I support the philosophy of giving a coach 1 cycle.

That said, he wasn't fired for performance reasons.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 15, 2023, 06:03:53 PM
I agree that he shouldn't have been rehired and I support the philosophy of giving a coach 1 cycle.

That said, he wasn't fired for performance reasons.

He should've been out with or without the Reyna stuff. That made it more imperative, but he should've moved on from his post regardless.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 16, 2023, 10:57:56 AM
Considering Henry is seen as a "disaster" at managing it's interesting that the best program in the world currently has him as the steward of the next generation.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 17, 2023, 08:41:50 AM
U23 camp in Phoenix.

Tonight’s USA v Japan U23/Olympic Team game will be streamed at U.S. Soccer Dot Com and via YouTube.

(The 2-1 win last week over Mexico wasn’t streamed, but, I do have a roughly cell phone recording of the game.)

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on October 17, 2023, 08:31:00 PM
That's a lot of goals.

Good. Loathe Ghana cause of history
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 17, 2023, 08:38:51 PM
That was awesome ! Balo awesome. Love watching his interchange play. Johnny dynamite holding the midfield. Love that guy. I could see him making a Europe move after his season.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 17, 2023, 08:47:17 PM
Just think about how well we could’ve done if they discovered this Reyna kid before the World Cup !
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: mug644 on October 18, 2023, 03:00:27 PM
I wish Johnny would’ve seen more burn. He’s the only like for like swap for Adams and this would’ve been the perfect opportunity to see how he performed in that role. 15 minute cameo after the game was decided won’t do much to answer that question.

Johnny go 65 minutes last night against Ghana. Obviously, we were overpowering them, and so it may not be a great data point for assessing him. Still, he held his own. And, if he is like you say (closer to a like for like swap for Tyler), then Berhalter was basically trying a midfield that breaks up MMA by inserting Gio and taking out McKennie. I liked having McKennie come on as a sub, but I could imagine times when we would want and need his long distance and cross field passing. We didn't need it last night.

And part of the reason for that was switching Dest back to the right side, where he is stronger and played so well along with Gio and Weah. And, I was very impressed with Lund.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 18, 2023, 04:06:15 PM
Johnny go 65 minutes last night against Ghana. Obviously, we were overpowering them, and so it may not be a great data point for assessing him. Still, he held his own. And, if he is like you say (closer to a like for like swap for Tyler), then Berhalter was basically trying a midfield that breaks up MMA by inserting Gio and taking out McKennie. I liked having McKennie come on as a sub, but I could imagine times when we would want and need his long distance and cross field passing. We didn't need it last night.

And part of the reason for that was switching Dest back to the right side, where he is stronger and played so well along with Gio and Weah. And, I was very impressed with Lund.

As long as Gio is fit, mma should not exist.  For me, Mckennie is the causality. He can be such an impactful sub with his running/high motor. Musah impacts the game in so many different ways.

Johnny is such a useful player. He showed himself so well yesterday and has had an incredible run of games in the copa libertadores. Performing well in that competition as a young guy is so impressive.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on October 21, 2023, 12:58:14 PM
Finalist names for the Milwaukee USL team

https://t.co/mkopUVTtF8

If it was a standard American sports team naming, Milwaukee Barons is amazing.

But otherwise, Cream City FC/SC is sick
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 21, 2023, 01:01:34 PM
Finalist names for the Milwaukee USL team

https://t.co/mkopUVTtF8

If it was a standard American sports team naming, Milwaukee Barons is amazing.

But otherwise, Cream City FC/SC is sick

Couldn’t even mention Al McGuire.  SMDH
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: wadesworld on October 21, 2023, 01:06:17 PM
Finalist names for the Milwaukee USL team

https://t.co/mkopUVTtF8

If it was a standard American sports team naming, Milwaukee Barons is amazing.

But otherwise, Cream City FC/SC is sick

Talboys is hilarious.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 21, 2023, 04:39:15 PM
Some of the most atrocious officiating I’ve ever seen.  Jones straight red will 100% be overturned.  Diaz was onside for the waved off LFC goal (which they inexplicably showed no lines for on the broadcast) and Jota’s second yellow was deserved but the first yellow was an absolute joke.

Credit to Spurs for applying the pressure enough to get a result but my word Liverpool got screwed.  And I’m very slow to blame officiating in soccer

Feel like over the course of 38 games the bad calls for and against you largely even each other out. Konate very lucky to not see red.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 21, 2023, 06:30:41 PM
Feel like over the course of 38 games the bad calls for and against you largely even each other out. Konate very lucky to not see red.

On the surface this seems the case but the pgmol has reached such a level of incompetence that we've already seen two to three teams each season these last few years miss out on accomplishment as a result of the decisions made in the booth.   
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 21, 2023, 08:29:33 PM
On the surface this seems the case but the pgmol has reached such a level of incompetence that we've already seen two to three teams each season these last few years miss out on accomplishment as a result of the decisions made in the booth.

Such as? Not necessarily doubting you, I just can’t think of any examples.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 22, 2023, 08:29:58 AM
Feel like over the course of 38 games the bad calls for and against you largely even each other out. Konate very lucky to not see red.

Liverpool playing 10v10 v Everton at home isn’t remotely equal to playing a man down away and the gross incompetence of a goal wrongfully disalllwed away from home.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 22, 2023, 11:08:32 AM
Liverpool playing 10v10 v Everton at home isn’t remotely equal to playing a man down away and the gross incompetence of a goal wrongfully disalllwed away from home.

That’s why I said over 38 games, not over two. Let’s work on tuning up those reading skills.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 22, 2023, 11:55:40 AM
That’s why I said over 38 games, not over two. Let’s work on tuning up those reading skills.

Things even out over 38 games, except I’m going to mention a specific instance from a specific game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 22, 2023, 02:11:59 PM
Serie a isn’t anywhere near it used to be but four Americans staring in the Milan juventus derby is still incredible.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 22, 2023, 03:01:59 PM
Things even out over 38 games, except I’m going to mention a specific instance from a specific game.

Yep, mention two incidents from two games to show evidence that sometimes calls go in your favor and sometimes they don’t. Evidence to support the idea that over 38 games things largely even out. Was not implying that the overall effect on the individual games was identical for both the Diaz incident and the Konate incident.

I take it you’re a scouser and and just view everything through your red tinted glasses?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 22, 2023, 08:39:23 PM
Yep, mention two incidents from two games to show evidence that sometimes calls go in your favor and sometimes they don’t. Evidence to support the idea that over 38 games things largely even out. Was not implying that the overall effect on the individual games was identical for both the Diaz incident and the Konate incident.

I take it you’re a scouser and and just view everything through your red tinted glasses?

I’m American not scouse and anyone with half a brain cell can differentiate between the diaz disallowed goal/audio release and any of the other countless controversial var/refereeing decisions.

I do agree with your original point that a marginal decision not going your way over a 38 game season evens out, but for a title contender (Liverpool not spurs) to drop points due to gross refereeing incompenentcy when city also lost is absolutely massive and a completely different situation than what you’re alluding to.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on October 23, 2023, 10:03:09 AM
Such as? Not necessarily doubting you, I just can’t think of any examples.

Alternate, non-VAR tables have been run through sites like ESPN, english newspapers, FourFourTwo, Sqawka, et al these last few seasons.

Think one of the more famous examples was two (three?) years ago when Arsenal finished fifth and missed Champions League but without VAR mistakes would have finished fourth.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on October 23, 2023, 10:19:32 AM
Alternate, non-VAR tables have been run through sites like ESPN, english newspapers, FourFourTwo, Sqawka, et al these last few seasons.

Think one of the more famous examples was two (three?) years ago when Arsenal finished fifth and missed Champions League but without VAR mistakes would have finished fourth.

Are they VAR mistake tables or tables if VAR didn’t exist? Because I’ve seen the latter but never the former. And VAR undoubtedly had a rough roll out between unclear handball rules and unclear direction on where offsides lines should be drawn, but I would not classify those as VAR mistakes. VAR mistakes, where pgmol has made a statement that a mistake actually took place (such as the Liverpool Diaz incident) have been few and far between, and to the best of my knowledge never effected a final table.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 23, 2023, 02:14:17 PM
Finalist names for the Milwaukee USL team

https://t.co/mkopUVTtF8

If it was a standard American sports team naming, Milwaukee Barons is amazing.

But otherwise, Cream City FC/SC is sick

Here I found a post for the engagement you sought and mentioned in the other thread.

Since it’s the USL, I would say a fun and irreverent name is just fine. MLS is different as the marketing of one’s
city ends up having most teams named something like Milwaukee FC or SC. And then what happens are organic nicknames develop locally in various markets.

Your favorite St. Louis for example, is named St. Louis City SC for 2 reasons, marketing purposes vs say Mound City (Cahokia Mounds) SC. And it’s a reference to the governmental city/county divide. It’s very pro city.

Anyway, they still have other nicknames such as Ravioli Boyz or Hellcats for various reasons.

I would agree that Cream City is a good choice. See there’s engagement.

While I enjoy the top few Euro Men’s leagues and U.S. National Team, my soccer interests also include Men and Women’s College Soccer, MLS, NWSL, youth soccer etc….and this thread seems to be mostly the former. So some of my posts or interests may not receive interest or engagement, and that’s just fine.

Are you surprised that it’s taking Marquette Women’s Soccer 4 seasons of little improvement under Frank P’s return? Or is it about what you expected?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on October 23, 2023, 09:49:59 PM
Finalist names for the Milwaukee USL team

https://t.co/mkopUVTtF8

If it was a standard American sports team naming, Milwaukee Barons is amazing.

But otherwise, Cream City FC/SC is sick

Agree on both, also like Lake Effect (unique) and 1846.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 24, 2023, 08:35:41 PM
Finalist names for the Milwaukee USL team

https://t.co/mkopUVTtF8

If it was a standard American sports team naming, Milwaukee Barons is amazing.

But otherwise, Cream City FC/SC is sick

I’ll be happy as long as they don’t land on FC or Real. Cornball stuff
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on October 29, 2023, 06:35:49 PM
Nice that the USWNT could get so many minutes and a goal from their teenagers.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 29, 2023, 07:29:14 PM
Nice that the USWNT could get so many minutes and a goal from their teenagers.

Nice set piece finish from former UCLA Bruin Mia Fishel in her San Diego home town. A bit physical and chippy early, but it was fun game.

Good for Jaedyn Shaw a 2023 player of FC Dallas and Solar, two national powers, that was initially a UNC commit but is one of a small group of players annually going pro instead. Nice play from Thompson, pressure, turnover, transition.

There are 3 in 2024 class and 3 in 2025 class. Another recent trend is for a few players to reclassify and skip a year of high school. A few USYNT players are doing this. Kennedy Fuller, Grace Restovich etc…I would expect Alex Pfeiffer the top player in 2026 to at minimum reclassify to 2025. I think she’ll go pro. Otherwise it will be one of the top few ACC or Pac 12 schools.



Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 29, 2023, 08:09:18 PM
Nice set piece finish from former UCLA Bruin Mia Fishel in her San Diego home town. A bit physical and chippy early, but it was fun game.

Good for Jaedyn Shaw a 2023 player of FC Dallas and Solar, two national powers, that was initially a UNC commit but is one of a small group of players annually going pro instead. Nice play from Thompson, pressure, turnover, transition.

There are 3 in 2024 class and 3 in 2025 class. Another recent trend is for a few players to reclassify and skip a year of high school. A few USYNT players are doing this. Kennedy Fuller, Grace Restovich etc…I would expect Alex Pfeiffer the top player in 2026 to at minimum reclassify to 2025. I think she’ll go pro. Otherwise it will be one of the top few ACC or Pac 12 schools.

There’s a thread for college soccer. And it ain’t here pal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on October 30, 2023, 04:40:29 PM
Nice set piece finish from former UCLA Bruin Mia Fishel in her San Diego home town. A bit physical and chippy early, but it was fun game.

Good for Jaedyn Shaw a 2023 player of FC Dallas and Solar, two national powers, that was initially a UNC commit but is one of a small group of players annually going pro instead. Nice play from Thompson, pressure, turnover, transition.

There are 3 in 2024 class and 3 in 2025 class. Another recent trend is for a few players to reclassify and skip a year of high school. A few USYNT players are doing this. Kennedy Fuller, Grace Restovich etc…I would expect Alex Pfeiffer the top player in 2026 to at minimum reclassify to 2025. I think she’ll go pro. Otherwise it will be one of the top few ACC or Pac 12 schools.

Alex Pfeiffer is off of the board. She signed a 3 year deal with KC Current. She’s 15 and the top player in the 2026 class.

https://theathletic.com/5013351/2023/10/30/kc-current-alex-pfeiffer/?source=user_shared_article

https://www.kansascitycurrent.com/news/kansas-city-current-sign-us-womens-youth-national-team-forwa
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on October 31, 2023, 03:03:55 PM
Boooooo

Fabrizio Romano
@FabrizioRomano
🚨🌏 OFFICIAL: World Cup 2034 will be hosted by Saudi Arabia, as president Gianni Infantino has confirmed. 🇸🇦
“Football unites the world like no other sport, World Cup is perfect showcase for a message of unity and inclusion”.
“Different cultures can be together”.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 31, 2023, 03:15:31 PM
Boooooo

Fabrizio Romano
@FabrizioRomano
🚨🌏 OFFICIAL: World Cup 2034 will be hosted by Saudi Arabia, as president Gianni Infantino has confirmed. 🇸🇦
“Football unites the world like no other sport, World Cup is perfect showcase for a message of unity and inclusion”.
“Different cultures can be together”.

And the beheadings will continue until morale improves.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on October 31, 2023, 03:45:35 PM
Hilarious FIFA forced those south american countries to "host" a couple games, making them ineligible to bid for this one. Prime time corruption
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on October 31, 2023, 04:44:27 PM
Also I like how the the other two cups have multiple countries, and then just Saudi Arabia reps all of Asia on this one.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on November 04, 2023, 10:47:42 PM
Seems a solid hire.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38814932/chelsea-manager-hayes-leave-club-end-season
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: shoothoops on November 05, 2023, 09:31:23 AM
Seems a solid hire.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38814932/chelsea-manager-hayes-leave-club-end-season

Yep. She doesn’t have a set preferred style of play/formations etc…can be defense first at times. Very pragmatic even within games. She’s coached 3 current American National Team players, and she has coached against several others. She has experience with multiple U.S. professional leagues as well as American College Soccer (as does the England Women’s Coach). So she understands the mix and variety of the landscape. Respected, and media friendly. More Super League and FA Cup success, less Champions League.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 05, 2023, 11:47:09 AM
Seems a solid hire.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38814932/chelsea-manager-hayes-leave-club-end-season

I heard Berhalter was seriously considered but USSF was a bit too concerned about upsetting the apple cart. They also didn’t want to begin a new search for a men’s coach.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 10, 2023, 11:11:38 AM
Calling feyenoord rotterdam is something I’ve never heard before. Not sure if the United takes are true. I don’t think they’ve qualified for champions league in a long time much less made it out of their group. The prem overrated is also an interesting take…

Otherwise feel free to drop by the superbar !

I know how to spell Rotterdam I don't know how to spell feyenoord and I am too lazy to spell out Feyenoord Rotterdam. 

Man U has qualified in 5 out of the last 7 years.
Man United did not qualify last year but did the year before.  Were in a fairly weak Group and made it through to lose to Atleti in R16. 
They also qualified in 20-21 but lost in a Group Stage.
In 18-19, they also qualified and squeaked passed Valencia to beat PSG in R16 and lose to Barca. 
In 17-18 were in a relatively weak group and then lost to Sevilla in R16.
This has been a rough stretch for Man U and the Glazer family is hated but they have made the UCL quite frequently. 

I say the EPL is overrated because that is the only league most people know and they think it is the marquee league when results say otherwise compared to La Liga.  Though Real has won more UCLs in the last decade than all but 3 other teams have in their history, it hasn't just been Real and Barca.  Sevilla has a great run in the Europa League.  Atleti has had success. 

EPL has had success in the last 5 years but a lot of that is foreign money.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 10, 2023, 02:35:11 PM
I know how to spell Rotterdam I don't know how to spell feyenoord and I am too lazy to spell out Feyenoord Rotterdam. 

Man U has qualified in 5 out of the last 7 years.
Man United did not qualify last year but did the year before.  Were in a fairly weak Group and made it through to lose to Atleti in R16. 
They also qualified in 20-21 but lost in a Group Stage.
In 18-19, they also qualified and squeaked passed Valencia to beat PSG in R16 and lose to Barca. 
In 17-18 were in a relatively weak group and then lost to Sevilla in R16.
This has been a rough stretch for Man U and the Glazer family is hated but they have made the UCL quite frequently. 

I say the EPL is overrated because that is the only league most people know and they think it is the marquee league when results say otherwise compared to La Liga.  Though Real has won more UCLs in the last decade than all but 3 other teams have in their history, it hasn't just been Real and Barca.  Sevilla has a great run in the Europa League.  Atleti has had success. 

EPL has had success in the last 5 years but a lot of that is foreign money.

Fair play to United. Recency bias, but I didn’t think they were consistently competing in the top 4.

However, I strongly disagree the prem is overrated. The fixture congestion makes it very difficult for the top teams to compete in Europe. While the rest of Europe is taking some sort of a break around Christmas/New Years, the prem is cooking. FA cup, boxing day league games followed quickly by more league games. No rest for the weary. Also the mid to lower table teams are significantly more competitive in the prem than other countries, because of league TV money deals which are massively higher than anywhere else in the world.

Madrid’s success in Europe simply means they’re a great club. It doesn’t necessarily reflect on La Liga making them the best league in the world.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 11, 2023, 10:49:20 AM
Fair play to United. Recency bias, but I didn’t think they were consistently competing in the top 4.

However, I strongly disagree the prem is overrated. The fixture congestion makes it very difficult for the top teams to compete in Europe. While the rest of Europe is taking some sort of a break around Christmas/New Years, the prem is cooking. FA cup, boxing day league games followed quickly by more league games. No rest for the weary. Also the mid to lower table teams are significantly more competitive in the prem than other countries, because of league TV money deals which are massively higher than anywhere else in the world.

Madrid’s success in Europe simply means they’re a great club. It doesn’t necessarily reflect on La Liga making them the best league in the world.

The leagues all pretty much play the same number of games and tournaments. La Liga is equivalent to EPL. Same number of teams same format. FA cup is equivalent to the Copa Del Rey.  To say the reason England hasn’t performed as well in the UCL is due to the fixture setup is a cop out.

I said it wasn’t just Real. Go and look at results from 2010 in the semis, finals and Champions in the UCL which Liga has the most teams involved and champions. Next go to the Europa League and do the same thing.

In that period, 7 Champions league titles and 8 Europa League Titles. With a stretch of 5 straight and in 4 out of those 5 years Spain won both competitions.  The teams with the most titles in both UCL and Europa are Spanish teams. So the top 1-4 teams of La Liga are winning the top competition and the 5-7 teams in the table are winning that levels tournament as well.

People only know Real and Barca but don’t  know Atleti, Sevilla, Valencia, Real Sociedad, Villarreal.

If this year’s group stage plays out based on the current standing, the knockout stage will have 4 Liga teams. EPL would have 2. Man U could still get in with two games left and some La Liga teams could drop off so grain of salt.

I am going to wager you are a Liverpool guy

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 11, 2023, 05:41:53 PM
The leagues all pretty much play the same number of games and tournaments. La Liga is equivalent to EPL. Same number of teams same format. FA cup is equivalent to the Copa Del Rey.  To say the reason England hasn’t performed as well in the UCL is due to the fixture setup is a cop out.

I said it wasn’t just Real. Go and look at results from 2010 in the semis, finals and Champions in the UCL which Liga has the most teams involved and champions. Next go to the Europa League and do the same thing.

In that period, 7 Champions league titles and 8 Europa League Titles. With a stretch of 5 straight and in 4 out of those 5 years Spain won both competitions.  The teams with the most titles in both UCL and Europa are Spanish teams. So the top 1-4 teams of La Liga are winning the top competition and the 5-7 teams in the table are winning that levels tournament as well.

People only know Real and Barca but don’t  know Atleti, Sevilla, Valencia, Real Sociedad, Villarreal.

If this year’s group stage plays out based on the current standing, the knockout stage will have 4 Liga teams. EPL would have 2. Man U could still get in with two games left and some La Liga teams could drop off so grain of salt.

I am going to wager you are a Liverpool guy

In the last 5 years, the EPL has had 5 teams make the knockouts, it will be 6 when Arsenal qualifies this year.  This is also the second time in 8 years that the EPL didn’t have at least 4 teams in the knockouts.  You make it seem like a common occurrence.  The EPL also has more consistent diversity of squads in the final 8 year to year with City, Liverpool, Chelsea all winning in recent years, unlike La Liga outside of Real.

Also, spare me Real Sociedad praise, this is their first time qualifying for the UCL knockouts in 20 years. That would be like an EPL fan crowing about Leicester City for depth.

The leagues compare very closely at the time, to claim otherwise is blind homerism.  La Liga falters because outside of the top 8-10, the league is awful.  Mid to bottom clubs like Alaves, Osasuna, Granada, or Getafe would get battered by a traditionally mid level English club like West Ham or Brighton or Villa
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 11, 2023, 08:05:08 PM
In the last 5 years, the EPL has had 5 teams make the knockouts, it will be 6 when Arsenal qualifies this year.  This is also the second time in 8 years that the EPL didn’t have at least 4 teams in the knockouts.  You make it seem like a common occurrence.  The EPL also has more consistent diversity of squads in the final 8 year to year with City, Liverpool, Chelsea all winning in recent years, unlike La Liga outside of Real.

Also, spare me Real Sociedad praise, this is their first time qualifying for the UCL knockouts in 20 years. That would be like an EPL fan crowing about Leicester City for depth.

The leagues compare very closely at the time, to claim otherwise is blind homerism.  La Liga falters because outside of the top 8-10, the league is awful.  Mid to bottom clubs like Alaves, Osasuna, Granada, or Getafe would get battered by a traditionally mid level English club like West Ham or Brighton or Villa

In the last five years seven la Liga teams, have made the knockout stage.

Three different teams in the last three years has won la Liga.

Here’s the thing of the teams from the EPL who have made it, a good chunk aren’t even English owned anymore and only have become relevant because of foreign money.

EPL is deeper. Right. Says no results and it’s the same set of teams every year. This is why I say it is overrated because anyone who is an EPL person talks it up so much that their results don’t meet their own hype.

Girona is the Leicester City and they are currently leading the table. RSO is closer to Newcastle.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 11, 2023, 08:19:24 PM
La liga is so top heavy. If I had to guess in the last twenty years, atleti is the only team named named  Madrid or Barca to win la liga.

The weakness of the middle to bottom half of the league is a huge advantage for the top teams. It’s just not the meat grinder that is the prem.

The biggest problem for England now is how punishing the schedule is during December/January. Between league games, Europe, league cup, fa cup and potential fa cup replays, those teams are playing games every three days while the rest of Europe takes a winter break.

The winter schedule is a huge disadvantage for English teams in Europe.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on November 11, 2023, 08:50:45 PM
La liga is so top heavy. If I had to guess in the last twenty years, atleti is the only team named named  Madrid or Barca to win la liga.

The weakness of the middle to bottom half of the league is a huge advantage for the top teams. It’s just not the meat grinder that is the prem.

The biggest problem for England now is how punishing the schedule is during December/January. Between league games, Europe, league cup, fa cup and potential fa cup replays, those teams are playing games every three days while the rest of Europe takes a winter break.

The winter schedule is a huge disadvantage for English teams in Europe.

You’d be wrong, but just barely.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 11, 2023, 08:53:25 PM
In the whole history of La Liga, Real Madrid and Barcelona have won, I’m guessing, almost all of the league titles. Does the fact that two teams win the Champions League a lot mean that La Liga is better? No, it means those two teams are better and Barcelona will never be the same Barcelona with their deep rooted financial issues.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 11, 2023, 09:35:12 PM
I believe that each LaLiga team negotiates their own domestic media deal which pretty much guarantees that Real and Barca are going to be at a large advantage every year.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 11, 2023, 09:58:17 PM
In the whole history of La Liga, Real Madrid and Barcelona have won, I’m guessing, almost all of the league titles. Does the fact that two teams win the Champions League a lot mean that La Liga is better? No, it means those two teams are better and Barcelona will never be the same Barcelona with their deep rooted financial issues.

In the last 20 years, 5 teams have won the EPL. In the last 20 years 4 La Liga teams have won a championship.

Man City has won it 5 of 6 last EPL titles. In the same time period three different teams will win la Liga.  Man City has dominated since Saudi Arab fund acquired the team.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 11, 2023, 10:03:39 PM
I believe that each LaLiga team negotiates their own domestic media deal which pretty much guarantees that Real and Barca are going to be at a large advantage every year.

La Liga entered into an agreement with CVC to manage their broadcasting and also signed a deal with ESPN.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 11, 2023, 10:09:08 PM
In the whole history of La Liga, Real Madrid and Barcelona have won, I’m guessing, almost all of the league titles. Does the fact that two teams win the Champions League a lot mean that La Liga is better? No, it means those two teams are better and Barcelona will never be the same Barcelona with their deep rooted financial issues.

Who’s your EPL team?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 11, 2023, 10:19:16 PM
Man City has won it 5 of 6 last EPL titles. In the same time period three different teams will win la Liga.  Man City has dominated since Saudi Arab fund acquired the team.

Nope.  Try again
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 11, 2023, 10:36:29 PM

In the last five years seven la Liga teams, have made the knockout stage.

Three different teams in the last three years has won la Liga.

Here’s the thing of the teams from the EPL who have made it, a good chunk aren’t even English owned anymore and only have become relevant because of foreign money.

EPL is deeper. Right. Says no results and it’s the same set of teams every year. This is why I say it is overrated because anyone who is an EPL person talks it up so much that their results don’t meet their own hype.

Girona is the Leicester City and they are currently leading the table. RSO is closer to Newcastle.

Talking about foreign owners in the Prem while simultaneously talking about how Girona top La Liga is hilarious. There’s no faster way to prove that you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 12, 2023, 06:47:41 AM
Nope.  Try again

Lol
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 12, 2023, 06:51:15 AM
Talking about foreign owners in the Prem while simultaneously talking about how Girona top La Liga is hilarious. There’s no faster way to prove that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Ah yes - the plucky underdogs headed by the small upstart city football group.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 12, 2023, 06:58:00 AM
Break from regular scheduled programming

https://x.com/dominos_uk/status/1723350881846927582?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 12, 2023, 07:41:59 AM
Nope.  Try again

Sorry I said Saudi by it was Abu Dhabi money in the end of 2008. From there they finished
3rd 2011
1st 2012
2nd 2013
1st 2014
2nd 2015
Skip a year in top 3
3rd 2016
1st for the next 5 of 6 years
2nd in one year they didn’t finish first

Prior to that they were an irrelevant team. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 12, 2023, 07:50:00 AM
Sorry I said Saudi by it was Abu Dhabi money in the end of 2008. From there they finished
3rd 2011
1st 2012
2nd 2013
1st 2014
2nd 2015
Skip a year in top 3
3rd 2016
1st for the next 5 of 6 years
2nd in one year they didn’t finish first

Prior to that they were an irrelevant team.

Almost the same as la liga. Except United, Liverpool, Leicester, arsenal, spurs and Chelsea have all finished first or second in that time period.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 12, 2023, 07:58:21 AM
Talking about foreign owners in the Prem while simultaneously talking about how Girona top La Liga is hilarious. There’s no faster way to prove that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Have you even bothered to look up Girona’s team and their wage bill? Or just stopped at the less than 50% ownership group. 

 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 12, 2023, 08:03:45 AM
Have you even bothered to look up Girona’s team and their wage bill? Or just stopped at the less than 50% ownership group.

Isn’t pep’s brother sporting director ?!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2023, 08:12:44 AM
Have you even bothered to look up Girona’s team and their wage bill? Or just stopped at the less than 50% ownership group.

Girona’s team in their last match against Vallecano had three former City players in their starting XI as well as a City Loanee come off the bench. I feel confident saying that they would not be top without their relationship with City.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 12, 2023, 08:28:55 AM
Isn’t pep’s brother sporting director ?!

No he is Chairman and is part of the Girona Football Group
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 12, 2023, 08:54:32 AM
Girona’s team in their last match against Vallecano had three former City players in their starting XI as well as a City Loanee come off the bench. I feel confident saying that they would not be top without their relationship with City.

Except you would be wrong.

There were only 2 in the starting line up with City ties. One that left City and is on loan from Barcelona. The other was on loan from City but then went on loan somewhere else. Then signed with 2 other teams before signing with Girona.

The third off the bench is on loan from city but only had one appearance there and has been impactful to their winning.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2023, 09:03:48 AM
Except you would be wrong.

There were only 2 in the starting line up with City ties. One that left City and is on loan from Barcelona. The other was on loan from City but then went on loan somewhere else. Then signed with 2 other teams before signing with Girona.

The third off the bench is on loan from city but only had one appearance there and has been impactful to their winning.

Except I’m not. They’re former City players, that’s 100% true. You were the one that said that Girona is the Leicester of La Liga, that’s 100% false. You have a very flimsy grasp on this and continue to dig your hole. I’ll also point out that being top in November is meaningless (just as Spurs). They also got outclassed in their one game against the traditional big three,  we’ll see how they look against Barca next month.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 12, 2023, 09:54:24 AM
Sorry I said Saudi by it was Abu Dhabi money in the end of 2008. From there they finished
3rd 2011
1st 2012
2nd 2013
1st 2014
2nd 2015
Skip a year in top 3
3rd 2016
1st for the next 5 of 6 years
2nd in one year they didn’t finish first

Prior to that they were an irrelevant team.

I wasn't doubting that they completely changed with the new ownership, but you calling them Saudi was just more you playing fast and loose with incorrect facts.

And you keep scoffing at foreign ownership in the EPL, while Valencia is foreign owned, Atleti is majority foreign owned between Ofer and Ares Management, Girona is City Group, Sevilla is a mess that could very well have 777 Partners go from 15% ownership to much more, and one of its two crown jewels is an unmitigated financial quagmire.

Real honest question, if you remove Barca and Real from La Liga, and then remove Man City and, say Liverpool, from the EPL...do you really think La Liga is a stronger league and the EPL is "overrated"?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2023, 10:13:17 AM
Beat league has the best players right?

Ballon d’or final standings.

1. Ligue 1 (now in MLS)
2. Prem
3. Ligue 1
4. La Liga
5. Prem
6. Prem
7. Prem (now in La Liga)
8. Serie A
9. Prem
10. La Liga
11. Bundesliga (now in La Liga)
12. Prem
13. La Liga (now in Saudi)
14. Serie A
15. Serie A
16. Prem
17. Prem
18. Prem
19. Prem
20. Bundesliga

Tally by league
Prem-10
La Liga-3
Serie A-3
Ligue 1-2
Bundesliga-2

Winner in by and large a popularity contest (and also weighted too heavily by an international tournament), but number of finalists by league is pretty strongly in favor of one particular league. Compare this to a decade ago when you had prime MSN and BBC, as well as the likes of Modric, Kroos, Xavi and Iniesta descending on the particular year, and it’s clear that the pendulum has swung.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 12, 2023, 10:57:42 AM
Who’s your EPL team?

Liverpool football club
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 12, 2023, 10:57:54 AM
Beat league has the best players right?

Ballon d’or final standings.

1. Ligue 1 (now in MLS)
2. Prem
3. Ligue 1
4. La Liga
5. Prem
6. Prem
7. Prem (now in La Liga)
8. Serie A
9. Prem
10. La Liga
11. Bundesliga (now in La Liga)
12. Prem
13. La Liga (now in Saudi)
14. Serie A
15. Serie A
16. Prem
17. Prem
18. Prem
19. Prem
20. Bundesliga

Tally by league
Prem-10
La Liga-3
Serie A-3
Ligue 1-2
Bundesliga-2

Winner in by and large a popularity contest (and also weighted too heavily by an international tournament), but number of finalists by league is pretty strongly in favor of one particular league. Compare this to a decade ago when you had prime MSN and BBC, as well as the likes of Modric, Kroos, Xavi and Iniesta descending on the particular year, and it’s clear that the pendulum has swung.

The Ballon has been dominated by 2 men for decade and has been won 16 times by la Liga players in the last 23 years. EPL has won it twice in that time period.

I would even give you I think Haaland should have won it this year which I stated earlier.

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 12, 2023, 11:00:35 AM
Liverpool football club

Called it. So on brand.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2023, 11:03:12 AM
The Ballon has been dominated by 2 men for decade and has been won 16 times by la Liga players in the last 23 years. EPL has won it twice in that time period.

I would even give you I think Haaland should have won it this year which I stated earlier.

Two men who are no longer in La Liga and haven’t been for years. Also as I said the winner is largely a popularity contest but when the number of finalists skews so strongly in favor of one league, it’s pretty easy to figure out that that league is the strongest as a whole. La Liga was no doubt the best league in the 2010s. The Prem is no doubt the best league of the 2020s thus far.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 12, 2023, 11:18:53 AM
Two men who are no longer in La Liga and haven’t been for years. Also as I said the winner is largely a popularity contest but when the number of finalists skews so strongly in favor of one league, it’s pretty easy to figure out that that league is the strongest as a whole. La Liga was no doubt the best league in the 2010s. The Prem is no doubt the best league of the 2020s thus far.

So you are agreeing with me for the prior 2 decades La Liga has been the predominant league but because England has won 2 of the four while la Liga only won one they have this decade so far.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2023, 11:34:05 AM
So you are agreeing with me for the prior 2 decades La Liga has been the predominant league but because England has won 2 of the four while la Liga only won one they have this decade so far.

I wouldn’t say two full decades. I would say from 2008 when Pep got the full time gig at Barca until 2018 when Madrid finished their three peat, La Liga was head and shoulders better than all the other leagues.

Starting in that 2018 season the Prem has had 7 finalists, with the only reason that they haven’t won more due to the fact that there have been two separate all England finals. La Liga has had 2, and as impressive as their run in 21-22 was, I don’t think that’s even close to one of the best Madrid sides of the last decade. 

Further, I think Athleti made a mistake extending Simeone as I think the game is starting to pass him by and his style will not be as effective in the future and Barca is in a huge financial mess not helped by back to back failures to get out of the group stage. Madrid is set up nicely as Vini is world class and Jude and Camavinga have tons of potential, but overall I would give the Prem a very comfortable edge, and coincidentally the current UEFA coefficient agrees.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 12, 2023, 11:36:18 AM
Called it. So on brand.

Rich coming from a fan of a club that has nearly nothing in common with the rest of La Liga but flailing to defend La Liga as a support for Real as a whole.

I'm sure this is rooted in some silly idea that Liverpool supporters just hate/are jealous of  Real/La Liga due to Champions League results or something.

You needing to know who he was a fan of gave away much of your argument and impartiality.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 12, 2023, 12:12:18 PM
Called it. So on brand.

What’s that supposed to mean ?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 12, 2023, 01:55:43 PM
Rich coming from a fan of a club that has nearly nothing in common with the rest of La Liga but flailing to defend La Liga as a support for Real as a whole.

I'm sure this is rooted in some silly idea that Liverpool supporters just hate/are jealous of  Real/La Liga due to Champions League results or something.

You needing to know who he was a fan of gave away much of your argument and impartiality.

Because every EPL team has their same talking points as why the EPL is better but why it doesn’t show. Liverpool's is the schedule.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 12, 2023, 02:44:44 PM
Because every EPL team has their same talking points as why the EPL is better but why it doesn’t show. Liverpool's is the schedule.

english teams pack in games in December and early January while the rest of Europe takes time off. That’s reality it’s not a talking point.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 12, 2023, 02:48:23 PM
I wouldn’t say two full decades. I would say from 2008 when Pep got the full time gig at Barca until 2018 when Madrid finished their three peat, La Liga was head and shoulders better than all the other leagues.

Starting in that 2018 season the Prem has had 7 finalists, with the only reason that they haven’t won more due to the fact that there have been two separate all England finals. La Liga has had 2, and as impressive as their run in 21-22 was, I don’t think that’s even close to one of the best Madrid sides of the last decade. 

Further, I think Athleti made a mistake extending Simeone as I think the game is starting to pass him by and his style will not be as effective in the future and Barca is in a huge financial mess not helped by back to back failures to get out of the group stage. Madrid is set up nicely as Vini is world class and Jude and Camavinga have tons of potential, but overall I would give the Prem a very comfortable edge, and coincidentally the current UEFA coefficient agrees.

You are skipping the start of the galacticos era and three la Liga titles 2000, 2002 and 2006. So they were the dominant league in 2000s and 2010s.

I agree with you on Simone. He has a good stretch but his time has worn thin.
As I mentioned Real is in a transition where they still have Kroos and Modric who are on the downside of their career and haven’t signed a big name superstar.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2023, 02:59:02 PM
You are skipping the start of the galacticos era and three la Liga titles 2000, 2002 and 2006. So they were the dominant league in 2000s and 2010s.

Nope, I would say that there was no dominant league in the early 2000s. Champions league winners went Spain, Germany, Spain, Italy, Portugal, England, Spain, Italy, England, Spain, Italy. That’s the definition of parity. Also, three league titles in a 6 year stretch really isn’t the domination that you think it was, and Madrid specifically had a three year trophy drought. It wasn’t until Barca became the absolute machine that it was at the end of the decade/early 2010s that one league became clear cut dominant.

Your extreme bias is showing if you think that Spain and/or Madrid specifically dominated the decade.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 12, 2023, 02:59:38 PM
As I mentioned Real is in a transition where they still have Kroos and Modric who are on the downside of their career and haven’t signed a big name superstar.

Yea they had to settle for bargain bin signings like that pedestrian Bellingham.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2023, 03:05:13 PM
Yea they had to settle for bargain bin signings like that pedestrian Bellingham.

Let’s not forget the absolute train wreck that was Hazard after he was supposed to be C7s replacement. But when you’re Real, you can have a 9 figure bust.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 12, 2023, 03:22:42 PM
I wasn't doubting that they completely changed with the new ownership, but you calling them Saudi was just more you playing fast and loose with incorrect facts.

And you keep scoffing at foreign ownership in the EPL, while Valencia is foreign owned, Atleti is majority foreign owned between Ofer and Ares Management, Girona is City Group, Sevilla is a mess that could very well have 777 Partners go from 15% ownership to much more, and one of its two crown jewels is an unmitigated financial quagmire.

Real honest question, if you remove Barca and Real from La Liga, and then remove Man City and, say Liverpool, from the EPL...do you really think La Liga is a stronger league and the EPL is "overrated"?

The country of the money origin is insignificant because the sentiment holds true.  If it makes you feel better you got me.

It wasn’t just foreign ownership but foreign money. Chelsea has spent $1B on payroll, Liverpool, Arsenal, man city etc are all spending record cash in the last decade. Even Newcastle has gotten an influx of foreign money that has shot them up the table.

In the examples, you provide none of those la Liga teams have gotten nearly the influx of foreign capital yet are still competitive. Girona has a wage bill of $27m this year while Leicester City had $38m the year they made their run.  Their entire club budget is $55M. City Group’s ownership is less than 50% and they haven’t dumped money in like the did City starting in 2011.  Do I think Girona can win La Liga? No but if they did it would be a greater miracle than Leicester City.

I actually don’t want them to win because they can’t sustain their team the following year which means they will go into the UCL and get rolled the following year. 

I want you to refute this. The top four team of the EPL and La Liga play in the UCL and for the last 2 decades La Liga has won more UCLs and the next set plus no group winners play in the Europa Cup. La Liga has won that 12 times in the last 20years. EPL has won it four. So if it is only Real and Barca why haven’t more of the deep, glorious EPL teams won it? None of the 12 times has Real or Barca won it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 12, 2023, 03:36:47 PM
Nope, I would say that there was no dominant league in the early 2000s. Champions league winners went Spain, Germany, Spain, Italy, Portugal, England, Spain, Italy, England, Spain, Italy. That’s the definition of parity. Also, three league titles in a 6 year stretch really isn’t the domination that you think it was, and Madrid specifically had a three year trophy drought. It wasn’t until Barca became the absolute machine that it was at the end of the decade/early 2010s that one league became clear cut dominant.

Your extreme bias is showing if you think that Spain and/or Madrid specifically dominated the decade.

You are now just trying too hard. 3 UCLs in 7 years isn’t dominant?  I know you only think think through EPL glasses but Barca was a dominant team before Pep. In the 2000s La Liga won 4 of the 10 UCLs.  Two real and two Barca. Italy and England combined won that many. Italy only won two because the last would have been in the 2010s of which you are already conceding was dominant by la liga
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 12, 2023, 03:40:51 PM
Yea they had to settle for bargain bin signings like that pedestrian Bellingham.

Jude is barely in to top 20 if we go by your  logic.

Hazard was an injury train wreck and drag on Real but Chelsea’s payroll is a bigger bust
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2023, 03:45:13 PM
You are now just trying too hard. 3 UCLs in 7 years isn’t dominant?  I know you only think think through EPL glasses but Barca was a dominant team before Pep. In the 2000s La Liga won 4 of the 10 UCLs.  Two real and two Barca. Italy and England combined won that many. Italy only won too because the last would have been in the 2010s of which you are already conceding was dominant by la liga

Three year stretch where the country doesn’t even make a final including one where no one even made a quarterfinal cannot be called a “dominant” run.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 12, 2023, 03:53:36 PM
Three year stretch where the country doesn’t even make a final including one where no one even made a quarterfinal cannot be called a “dominant” run.

I see so you can’t be the dominant league in the first third and the last third and still be the best league of that decade. If you had to pick just one league to have won that decade who would it be?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 12, 2023, 04:01:42 PM
I see so you can’t be the dominant league in the first third and the last third and still be the best league of that decade. If you had to pick just one league to have won that decade who would it be?

As I said, I don’t think any league was “dominant”. “Dominant” is what Barca/Real did in the 2010 and what England has done thus far in the 2020s. We went an entire decade without a country repeating. Spain won 5 straight in the 2010s. An English team has made 5 of 6 straight finals including two years that were all English. Those are “dominant” runs. The 2000s were not dominated by any country, you’re asking a question that doesn’t have an answer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 13, 2023, 08:18:25 AM
Yea they had to settle for bargain bin signings like that pedestrian Bellingham.

Wait until he hears about the young upstart Norwegian striker city signed last year. I think he may be a decent signing !
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on November 13, 2023, 10:37:23 AM
The best league in the world discussion is always fun because it's based entirely on vibes no matter the stats presented and it's a never ending circle of "yeah, but......". Anyway, it's not England.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 13, 2023, 11:18:16 AM
Wait until he hears about the young upstart Norwegian striker city signed last year. I think he may be a decent signing !

You mean the guy who supposedly has a release clause specific to Real Madrid? and over the last several days has been reported as being executed next summer?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 13, 2023, 11:24:56 AM
As I said, I don’t think any league was “dominant”. “Dominant” is what Barca/Real did in the 2010 and what England has done thus far in the 2020s. We went an entire decade without a country repeating. Spain won 5 straight in the 2010s. An English team has made 5 of 6 straight finals including two years that were all English. Those are “dominant” runs. The 2000s were not dominated by any country, you’re asking a question that doesn’t have an answer.

I didn't ask who dominated the second time.  I asked if you could only pick one league as the winner of that decade who would it be? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 13, 2023, 11:30:18 AM
You mean the guy who supposedly has a release clause specific to Real Madrid? and over the last several days has been reported as being executed next summer?

I’m making fun of you ignoring the bellingham signing as “not a superstar” acquisition.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 13, 2023, 11:52:58 AM
Also, not a single person here has shaded or discounted Real Madrid.  They are a monster club, with monster results, who have deserved all praise and accolades.  But a club doesn’t a deep league make.

I think the EPL is the deepest and toughest league in the world, for a variety of reasons including money that buoys many teams, weather, and scheduling.  Best league? It’s subjective but the answer is pretty obviously MLS
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 13, 2023, 12:01:58 PM
Also, not a single person here has shaded or discounted Real Madrid.  They are a monster club, with monster results, who have deserved all praise and accolades.  But a club doesn’t a deep league make.

I think the EPL is the deepest and toughest league in the world, for a variety of reasons including money that buoys many teams, weather, and scheduling.  Best league? It’s subjective but the answer is pretty obviously MLS

Many people are asking where Messi would be without inter Miami building his career.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 13, 2023, 12:04:29 PM
I didn't ask who dominated the second time.  I asked if you could only pick one league as the winner of that decade who would it be?

I would say no team won the decade, for the third time now.  There were incredible levels of parity with no winner.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 13, 2023, 12:43:00 PM
I’m making fun of you ignoring the bellingham signing as “not a superstar” acquisition.

I know you are an EPL guy, who thinks everyone who plays/played for an EPL team is a superstar but it is arguable that Jude isn't even the best player on his team or even the EPL before he left.  Haaland, Mbappe from a signings perspective are both on another level.   

If you were to look outside of the EPL and review Real Madrid's team they are going to lose Modric, Kroos in the next two years max.  Jude was brought in to replace Modric which is arguably a wash.  They haven't replaced Benzema yet and have been playing a platoon of Rodrygo and Joselu.  Neither of whom have shown they are the answer.  As I mentioned, Real is in a transition where they have been slowing replacing the older players who drove their success in 2010s with the next wave. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 13, 2023, 12:45:13 PM
I know you are an EPL guy, who thinks everyone who plays/played for an EPL team is a superstar but it is arguable that Jude isn't even the best player on his team or even the EPL before he left.  Haaland, Mbappe from a signings perspective are both on another level.   

If you were to look outside of the EPL and review Real Madrid's team they are going to lose Modric, Kroos in the next two years max.  Jude was brought in to replace Modric which is arguably a wash.  They haven't replaced Benzema yet and have been playing a platoon of Rodrygo and Joselu.  Neither of whom have shown they are the answer.  As I mentioned, Real is in a transition where they have been slowing replacing the older players who drove their success in 2010s with the next wave.

Jude never played in the prem
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 13, 2023, 12:48:46 PM
Yea if you don't know what players play in what league, you're going to have a real tough time convincing people that you have any idea what you're talking about.  I'm going to take double down on blind La Liga homerism for 100 next.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 13, 2023, 12:52:42 PM
I would say no team won the decade, for the third time now.  There were incredible levels of parity with no winner.

You can't say it can you?  La Liga won nearly half of the UCLs.  Was in 5 of them.  Have a record of 4-2 in UCL finals with one of those losses coming from another La Liga team.  Was in the semis all but 2 years. 

90s was parity. 2000s was won by La Liga.

I also just looked it up.  What you called dominating by England in 2020s is what La Liga did exactly from 2000-2002. 

There is no argument which can be made it was England so La Liga has had two better decades than your EPL.  11 of 25 UCLs.  Case closed.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 13, 2023, 01:01:17 PM
I said England's domination started in 2018, not everything runs exactly on the decade lines, but since you don't even know where you're getting you own clubs players from, I wouldn't expect you to have any reading comprehension either.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 13, 2023, 01:07:16 PM
Yea if you don't know what players play in what league, you're going to have a real tough time convincing people that you have any idea what you're talking about.  I'm going to take double down on blind La Liga homerism for 100 next.

Sorry, coming from a guy who hasn't yet been able to argue a single relevant fact that shows the EPL is better in any way yet still says it is.  You argument was been whittled done to a three year period.

I equated him with the English national team to the EPL but forgot he was in the EFL before going to Dortmond.  Next time.  Point holds true.  Anyone with a whiff of English soccer is a god in your eyes. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 13, 2023, 01:15:55 PM
I said England's domination started in 2018, not everything runs exactly on the decade lines, but since you don't even know where you're getting you own clubs players from, I wouldn't expect you to have any reading comprehension either.

Right, the year they lost to Real embarrassingly in the UCL so badly their goalie probably never played a game again.  I didn't fact check that. 

Let's move the goalpost then, Real also won the UCL in 98 so three in six years.  5 in 12.  Surprisingly the exact same "dominance" England has had. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 13, 2023, 01:23:49 PM
I equated him with the English national team to the EPL but forgot he was in the EFL before going to Dortmond.  Next time.  Point holds true.  Anyone with a whiff of English soccer is a god in your eyes.

The most expensive transfer in Real Madrid history and you're glossing over Bellingham as "whoops I forgot he never played in the EPL" and thinking the only reason people are high on him is because he's English?  This is next level Real Madrid arrogance.  Dude was a HUGE signing, in both buzz and dollars, and has set the world on fire, yet you're acting like he's not good enough to be considered a marquee Real signing and a "wash" with a 38 year old aging midfielder who is going to a retirement league.  Good lord

Rotterdam FC
Saudis own Man City
EPL star Jude Bellingham
Liverpool fans famously known for schedule complaints (ive been an LFC supporter for 20 years and this is literally the first time Ive heard this as a common trait of Liverpool supporters)

Yet you want to lecture everyone that you know more than any of them about European soccer.  Your blatant La Liga bias and specialized knowledge is showing more with every post
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 13, 2023, 01:36:56 PM
Sorry, coming from a guy who hasn't yet been able to argue a single relevant fact that shows the EPL is better in any way yet still says it is.  You argument was been whittled done to a three year period.

I equated him with the English national team to the EPL but forgot he was in the EFL before going to Dortmond.  Next time.  Point holds true.  Anyone with a whiff of English soccer is a god in your eyes.

Keep shifting the goalposts and you might eventually stumble on something that supports your homerism narrative.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 13, 2023, 01:42:53 PM
Also, for the record, I could not possibly care less if someone didn’t think the EPL was the best league in the world.  Sure I love Liverpool but I don’t need to go to war for other clubs just cause they play in the same league

But implying that the only reason that someone could think so is due to some blind English bias while exhibiting aggressive bias of their own is just absurd
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 13, 2023, 02:23:01 PM
The most expensive transfer in Real Madrid history and you're glossing over Bellingham as "whoops I forgot he never played in the EPL" and thinking the only reason people are high on him is because he's English?  This is next level Real Madrid arrogance.  Dude was a HUGE signing, in both buzz and dollars, and has set the world on fire, yet you're acting like he's not good enough to be considered a marquee Real signing and a "wash" with a 38 year old aging midfielder who is going to a retirement league.  Good lord

Rotterdam FC
Saudis own Man City
EPL star Jude Bellingham
Liverpool fans famously known for schedule complaints (ive been an LFC supporter for 20 years and this is literally the first time Ive heard this as a common trait of Liverpool supporters)

Yet you want to lecture everyone that you know more than any of them about European soccer.  Your blatant La Liga bias and specialized knowledge is showing more with every post

Seriously.  I said Rotterdam instead of Feyenoord when listing off who I thought would win in 20seconds.  Which you guys haven't even attempted to do and that is what you got.  I am so sorry.  I thought you could look at the table and figure it out.  I didn't call it Rotterdam FC. 

I am sure that you went a looked it up right away to figure out the ownership structure.  Probably didn't even know it.  Sorry that I got my EPL to country ownership wrong as Newcastle was the Saudi owned and City was Abu Dabhi owned group.  It is really hard to keep track of who is buying who in the EPL.  Super-critical detail in the overall statement other than it gave you a meaningless argument.

Maybe you should venture out of the EPL circles and you can hear how other leagues operate and why the schedule was uniquely a Liverpool story.  or maybe just ask. 

I might have been off in a few details but at the end I was the only one who provided anything outside of name calling and "but its the best."
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 13, 2023, 02:26:30 PM
I said England's domination started in 2018, not everything runs exactly on the decade lines, but since you don't even know where you're getting you own clubs players from, I wouldn't expect you to have any reading comprehension either.

But you did.  The moment someone said the EPL is overrated because of their own hype.  You went out to defend but haven't given a single piece of any evidence other than but the last few years. I gave you in the my first statement.

You have probably never watched a La Liga game.  Even an el classico.  ever.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 13, 2023, 02:32:06 PM
Seriously.  I said Rotterdam instead of Feyenoord when listing off who I thought would win in 20seconds.  Which you guys haven't even attempted to do and that is what you got.  I am so sorry.  I thought you could look at the table and figure it out.  I didn't call it Rotterdam FC. 

I am sure that you went a looked it up right away to figure out the ownership structure.  Probably didn't even know it.  Sorry that I got my EPL to country ownership wrong as Newcastle was the Saudi owned and City was Abu Dabhi owned group.  It is really hard to keep track of who is buying who in the EPL.  Super-critical detail in the overall statement other than it gave you a meaningless argument.

Maybe you should venture out of the EPL circles and you can hear how other leagues operate and why the schedule was uniquely a Liverpool story.  or maybe just ask. 

I might have been off in a few details but at the end I was the only one who provided anything outside of name calling and "but its the best."

I’ve been calling Everton “Liverpool” for years. I’m starting to understand why people are confused…
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 13, 2023, 02:32:52 PM
The most expensive transfer in Real Madrid history and you're glossing over Bellingham as "whoops I forgot he never played in the EPL" and thinking the only reason people are high on him is because he's English?  This is next level Real Madrid arrogance.  Dude was a HUGE signing, in both buzz and dollars, and has set the world on fire, yet you're acting like he's not good enough to be considered a marquee Real signing and a "wash" with a 38 year old aging midfielder who is going to a retirement league.  Good lord

Rotterdam FC
Saudis own Man City
EPL star Jude Bellingham
Liverpool fans famously known for schedule complaints (ive been an LFC supporter for 20 years and this is literally the first time Ive heard this as a common trait of Liverpool supporters)

Yet you want to lecture everyone that you know more than any of them about European soccer.  Your blatant La Liga bias and specialized knowledge is showing more with every post

And by the way, he wasn't the most expense transfer in Real Madrid history.  You are so wrong.  no clue.  you have no knowledge of nothing. 

For the record, he was number 2 after the aforementioned Hazard. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on November 13, 2023, 02:40:03 PM
But you did.  The moment someone said the EPL is overrated because of their own hype.  You went out to defend but haven't given a single piece of any evidence other than but the last few years. I gave you in the my first statement.

You have probably never watched a La Liga game.  Even an el classico.  ever.

Because the last few years is the only time the Prem's been the dominant league in my lifetime.

I'll say it again although you'll probably ignore it again. The 2000s up until 2008 was a wash. When you have a 5 year stretch where 5 different countries win, no country "wins" the stretch as a whole, and no country certainly dominates it.

2008-2018, the end of the three peat was all La Liga.  Since then, England has won three titles and no other country even has 2 appearances in a title match.  So from the start of the 2018-19 season until current day, England has dominated.  Just because these timelines don't line up exactly with decade markers does not make them any less relevant.

I love watching La Liga, I'll admit that I don't watch it as much as the Prem, but I certainly watch it.  Maybe if you would remove your head from Florentino Perez's @$$, you could appreciate the sport outside of one country too. 

P.S. Perez is the president of your club, just want to make sure you're up to speed on who's who.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 13, 2023, 03:00:29 PM
And by the way, he wasn't the most expense transfer in Real Madrid history.  You are so wrong.  no clue.  you have no knowledge of nothing. 

For the record, he was number 2 after the aforementioned Hazard.

Someone getting a bit fiesty?  I have no knowledge of nothing?   ;D

Hazard:  €100MM plus add ons
Bellingham: €103MM plus add ons

Seeing as Bellingham's add ons have not been triggered as he's barely started his time in Madrid and Hazard's full add ons paid is murky, I'm speaking to base fees, which unless my English bias is clouding my understanding, 103 is larger than 100.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 13, 2023, 03:16:56 PM
Someone getting a bit fiesty?  I have no knowledge of nothing?   ;D

Hazard:  €100MM plus add ons
Bellingham: €103MM plus add ons

Seeing as Bellingham's add ons have not been triggered as he's barely started his time in Madrid and Hazard's full add ons paid is murky, I'm speaking to base fees, which unless my English bias is clouding my understanding, 103 is larger than 100.

Read the footnotes of the deals.  Hazard had a lower initial fee but a higher upside.  Jude had a higher initial but lower upside.  Currently, Hazard still stands as the most expensive transfer. 

Two can play the game with irrelevant facts and I haven't even brought up Time Value of Money.  Haaland will get the record next year. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 13, 2023, 09:29:39 PM
Just checked current ‘24 ballon d’or odds. Jude Bellingham odds on favorite. Not bad for an unheralded signing. Maybe he will finally be considered a superstar with his name just beginning to pop up in these types of conversations.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 13, 2023, 10:41:23 PM
Just checked current ‘24 ballon d’or odds. Jude Bellingham odds on favorite. Not bad for an unheralded signing. Maybe he will finally be considered a superstar with his name just beginning to pop up in these types of conversations.

You kind of represent everything that’s wrong with the internet.  I wrote up my entire breakdown of my picks for the UCL. You provide no insight, no opinion of your own, put nothing out there and you sit on the sidelines taking pop shots at meaningless things. The only thought you could muster was “I am confused when you said Rotterdam” when anyone with half a brain knew.

Without providing any insight or measure-able unit to support that Jude is a, not just going to be a, superstar, you again throw out zero value. Did I say he wasn’t a good signing?  Nope but Real didn’t get him because he is a superstar but they project him to become one, as did many clubs, and he is only 20. if you look at his agreement his yearly salary doesn’t make him highest paid player on the team for several years.  He is there to replace Modric whose career has put him in the superstar ranks as a Ballon winner not an early season favorite in Vegas.  I wouldn’t take that bet. Haaland got screwed last year so if he does 2/3rds of what he did he will win. 

I don't throw out superstar lightly.  Superstars are once in a generational player.  Messi, CR7, Ronaldo, Zidane, Henry are just samples of superstars in a world of stars.  Haaland & Mbappe look a level above the rest right now. There are lots of stars that never make it, are injured their whole career, etc.  If you haven't won a title, you aren't in the superstar conversation.  I don't see Tchouaméni as a superstar now and he was number 4 on highest transfer on Real's list at 80M and was highly sought after by Liverpool.  He is a great replacement, when healthy, for replacing Casemiro who they transferred to Man U for 70M. 

Even Wags and Over though throwing out insults and least stepped out on a limb to provide any sort of opinion, insight, or validation of their opinion.

you are the scoop version of the Harvard guy from Good Will Hunting.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 14, 2023, 09:23:32 AM
The lengths you’re going to try and convince us one of the best midfielders in the world playing for one of the best teams in the world isn’t a superstar is comical.

Madrid signed him not because he’s some uncovered gem. They signed him because they believed he was the best young midfielder in the world. Since signing, he’s proven that and more which is supported by all of the books picking him as a favorite for next seasons ballon d’or.

You’ve been proven wrong multiple times all while ignoring the facts I’ve presented since our first interaction.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 14, 2023, 02:03:11 PM
The lengths you’re going to try and convince us one of the best midfielders in the world playing for one of the best teams in the world isn’t a superstar is comical.

Madrid signed him not because he’s some uncovered gem. They signed him because they believed he was the best young midfielder in the world. Since signing, he’s proven that and more which is supported by all of the books picking him as a favorite for next seasons ballon d’or.

You’ve been proven wrong multiple times all while ignoring the facts I’ve presented since our first interaction.
The two facts your provided:
1. Rotterdam
2.  Man U hasn't qualified for the UCL in ages.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 14, 2023, 02:48:20 PM
The two facts your provided:
1. Rotterdam
2.  Man U hasn't qualified for the UCL in ages.

Man city ownership group incorrect
What team Jude came from
Crowing about foreign owners in the premier league while bragging about how Girona is topping La Liga.
Liverpool fans complaining about how many games they play ??

Comedy of errors from start to finish for you buddy
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 14, 2023, 04:28:44 PM
Man city ownership group incorrect
What team Jude came from
Crowing about foreign owners in the premier league while bragging about how Girona is topping La Liga.
Liverpool fans complaining about how many games they play ??

Comedy of errors from start to finish for you buddy

Man city ownership group incorrect  -->irrelevant, minute detail and literally impacts nothing. 

What team Jude came from -->you got me

Crowing about foreign owners in the premier league while bragging about how Girona is topping La Liga.-->I wasn't bragging about Girona on the top of the table.  I pointed out the similarities of a small team with limited funding making a run to the top of the league table to Leicester.  Someone else said that was 100% based on their relationship with Man City.  Girona hasn't seen the large influx of cash nor some relationship from Man City that is driving players their way and their success.  But yeah, I won't respect them as much as the self-funding teams who managed to compete year over year.

BTW Pep's brother isn't the sporting director but good try. 

Liverpool fans complaining about how many games they play ??  -->

Google search Jorgen Klopp (he's is the coach so assume he is a fan) schedule. 

Google Klopp's guidance to Pep coming to EPL

You get the occasional EPL coach complaining about a stretch or what happened in COVID year.  But what you guys talk about has been a fairly unique problem to Liverpool.  Of which Klopp has been pretty vocal.

There is only one other team that has brought that up...Man City this year after a world cup.  Sad part is you don't even understand why they even talk about it or why it has been a fairly unique problem to Liverpool.  I think at one point the FA Cup Replays were thrown out.  And guess what since Man City was an irrelevant team who got foreign funding to buy championships no one is a real fan so the only team is Liverpool. 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 14, 2023, 05:42:17 PM
  And guess what since Man City was an irrelevant team who got foreign funding to buy championships no one is a real fan so the only team is Liverpool.

You expect anyone to take you seriously with this sort of arrogant completely incorrect elitist BS.  Classic coming from someone who roots for the Yankees of European football. But im sure all those TRUE American supporters of Los Merengues would stick around if they had issues and ended up with results like Rayo Vallecano. It’s just true passion that supporters of a club like Man City, that clearly played in near empty stadiums before their Saudi investment came in, would never know
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 15, 2023, 09:10:32 PM
Man city ownership group incorrect  -->irrelevant, minute detail and literally impacts nothing. 

What team Jude came from -->you got me

Crowing about foreign owners in the premier league while bragging about how Girona is topping La Liga.-->I wasn't bragging about Girona on the top of the table.  I pointed out the similarities of a small team with limited funding making a run to the top of the league table to Leicester.  Someone else said that was 100% based on their relationship with Man City.  Girona hasn't seen the large influx of cash nor some relationship from Man City that is driving players their way and their success.  But yeah, I won't respect them as much as the self-funding teams who managed to compete year over year.

BTW Pep's brother isn't the sporting director but good try. 

Liverpool fans complaining about how many games they play ??  -->

Google search Jorgen Klopp (he's is the coach so assume he is a fan) schedule. 

Google Klopp's guidance to Pep coming to EPL

You get the occasional EPL coach complaining about a stretch or what happened in COVID year.  But what you guys talk about has been a fairly unique problem to Liverpool.  Of which Klopp has been pretty vocal.

There is only one other team that has brought that up...Man City this year after a world cup.  Sad part is you don't even understand why they even talk about it or why it has been a fairly unique problem to Liverpool.  I think at one point the FA Cup Replays were thrown out.  And guess what since Man City was an irrelevant team who got foreign funding to buy championships no one is a real fan so the only team is Liverpool.

So are all Liverpool fans saying that? Or just Klopp?

And no he’s not sporting director. He’s the chairman/super agent.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 15, 2023, 09:20:05 PM
So are all Liverpool fans saying that? Or just Klopp?

And no he’s not sporting director. He’s the chairman/super agent.

You did. As did another Liverpool poster. You seem amazed that people can aligned coach/teams—>fan talking points. 

So you wrong, should I hammer on that for 30 posts or can we agree it’s an irrelevant detail?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 15, 2023, 09:22:46 PM
You did. As did another Liverpool poster. You seem amazed that people can aligned coach/teams—>fan talking points. 

So you wrong, should I hammer on that for 30 posts or can we agree it’s an irrelevant detail?

You said that it’s a common trope amongst Liverpool fans. I guess I represent the entire fan base lol.

And yes it is true - Teams in England play more games in a shorter amount of time than their counterparts on the continent. That’s not conjecture it’s fact.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 15, 2023, 10:00:22 PM
You said that it’s a common trope amongst Liverpool fans. I guess I represent the entire fan base lol.

And yes it is true - Teams in England play more games in a shorter amount of time than their counterparts on the continent. That’s not conjecture it’s fact.
I gave you three in three seconds. Do I need to run a poll for you?

From December 2022 to February of 2023 how many games did Liverpool play and how many did Real Madrid play?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BallBoy on November 16, 2023, 07:45:54 PM
You said that it’s a common trope amongst Liverpool fans. I guess I represent the entire fan base lol.

And yes it is true - Teams in England play more games in a shorter amount of time than their counterparts on the continent. That’s not conjecture it’s fact.

Just for curiosity I used this new tool called Google to search this trend.

This was posted a month ago

https://thetopflight.com/2023/10/12/liverpool-crybaby-complain-pl-schedule/

The passage that sticks out “I don’t mean to single out Liverpool, but it does seem to be a common theme that it’s them who complain the most about the Premier League schedule. 19 other teams have to play the same number of games, give or take a few depending on progress in the cups.”

Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on November 16, 2023, 08:54:08 PM
USMNT v Trinidad and Tobago...

Somebody take a freaking shot.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 16, 2023, 09:06:54 PM
USMNT v Trinidad and Tobago...

Somebody take a freaking shot.

Soooo slow in possession. Way too narrow. Would like to see Gio or Tillman playing behind balogun rather than out “wide.”
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 16, 2023, 09:10:11 PM
Just for curiosity I used this new tool called Google to search this trend.

This was posted a month ago

https://thetopflight.com/2023/10/12/liverpool-crybaby-complain-pl-schedule/

The passage that sticks out “I don’t mean to single out Liverpool, but it does seem to be a common theme that it’s them who complain the most about the Premier League schedule. 19 other teams have to play the same number of games, give or take a few depending on progress in the cups.”

A blog from an Arsenal blogger for Fansided  ::)  Might as well be Bleacher Report.  Impressive journalistic credibility when you use crybaby in your headline.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 16, 2023, 09:13:49 PM
Just for curiosity I used this new tool called Google to search this trend.

This was posted a month ago

https://thetopflight.com/2023/10/12/liverpool-crybaby-complain-pl-schedule/

The passage that sticks out “I don’t mean to single out Liverpool, but it does seem to be a common theme that it’s them who complain the most about the Premier League schedule. 19 other teams have to play the same number of games, give or take a few depending on progress in the cups.”

Lol

You’re seriously that desperate you’re going to the esteemed soccer journalist kian long, the same kian long with approximately 322 twitter followers? You’re going to fansided? The website where literally any moron with an internet connection can post an article ?

Further context to that interview is below. It has nothing to do with comparing the premier league’s fixture congestion against other leagues domestic schedule. Vvd was more critical of the international schedule and the advent of nations league games in addition to the busy English domestic schedule.

https://talksport.com/football/1599292/liverpool-virgil-van-dijk-criticism-fixture-schedule/amp/

Serious question - are you kian long? 
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 16, 2023, 10:07:46 PM
Lifeless for 80 min, half of it against 10 men…then explode for 3.  Jedi’s goal was a belter
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: brewcity77 on November 18, 2023, 07:48:51 AM
Turned on the U17 France/USA match when I saw it was 1-0 late and Nimfa was coming on. 10 minutes later and we're down 3-0. Disappointing finish.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 19, 2023, 09:05:27 AM
Everton point deduction…I think they still stay up. They’ve showed themselves very organized under dyche.

We’ll see what happens with city and Chelsea.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on November 20, 2023, 06:01:35 PM
Shoot more often than last game.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 20, 2023, 06:10:33 PM
Shoot more often than last game.

More purposeful buildup play. Play through balogun instead of spamming worthless crosses his direction.

Maybe ggg expirements ?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 20, 2023, 06:18:04 PM
More purposeful buildup play. Play through balogun instead of spamming worthless crosses his direction.

Maybe ggg expirements ?

At least he's putting gio in the middle
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on November 20, 2023, 06:23:36 PM
Ouch.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on November 20, 2023, 06:41:42 PM
Nice temper tantrum.

With an appropriate result.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 20, 2023, 06:51:40 PM
Nice temper tantrum.

With an appropriate result.

I’m going to say something that is probably over the top BUT - he should never play for the usmnt again after that. Absolutely pathetic
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on November 20, 2023, 06:52:37 PM
Is this an aberration?   Is he known for erratic behavior?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 20, 2023, 06:54:32 PM
Is this an aberration?   Is he known for erratic behavior?

Extremely - but generally in a loving way. He’s known for posting personal highlight mixtape type videos win or lose every Monday. He can be a highly volatile player.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on November 20, 2023, 07:04:44 PM
I’m going to say something that is probably over the top BUT - he should never play for the usmnt again after that. Absolutely pathetic

You’re right, it’s over the top. But he definitely deserves to be suspended for a few matches. Ridiculous behavior.

They were playing really nice attacking soccer today too.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on November 20, 2023, 07:06:38 PM
And then to continue to argue with his teammates about it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: tower912 on November 20, 2023, 07:17:22 PM
My goodness.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 20, 2023, 07:19:03 PM
You’re right, it’s over the top. But he definitely deserves to be suspended for a few matches. Ridiculous behavior.

They were playing really nice attacking soccer today too.

No reason to ever play again. Scally can easily step in and not miss a beat. Tyler Adams can play that role which opens up the midfield a bit. There are options and he’s very easily expendable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 20, 2023, 07:25:30 PM
https://twitter.com/MattDoyle76/status/1726764942655721631?t=xt5POFlhDHFBlwaYfKZfJA&s=19
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on November 20, 2023, 08:14:53 PM
No reason to ever play again. Scally can easily step in and not miss a beat. Tyler Adams can play that role which opens up the midfield a bit. There are options and he’s very easily expendable.

If others grade out better at LB then by all means play them, but if Dest is deemed the best option there in a year, he should play.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 20, 2023, 08:19:40 PM
Was tonight an example of why Dest has not meshed well with his club teams?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 20, 2023, 08:24:06 PM
If others grade out better at LB then by all means play them, but if Dest is deemed the best option there in a year, he should play.

No he shouldn’t. Imagine something like that happening in the copa. A decision like that completely sinks a team. Scally is a completely different player, but is much more reliable in many different facets of the game than Dest.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 20, 2023, 08:28:01 PM
Was tonight an example of why Dest has not meshed well with his club teams?

I don’t think he was talented enough to stay in the team at Barca. Never really given much of a chance during his loan spell at Milan. Otherwise has played well at Ajax and psv.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 20, 2023, 09:11:00 PM
Let’s not forget about the score line and overall performance here - GGG should be counting his blessings all of the heat will be on Dest after this. Quite frankly an abysmal two games against an extremely poor opponent.

GGG’s record away from home remains pathetic.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 20, 2023, 09:15:09 PM
Let’s not forget about the score line and overall performance here - GGG should be counting his blessings all of the heat will be on Dest after this. Quite frankly an abysmal two games against an extremely poor opponent.

GGG’s record away from home remains pathetic.

Barely meets minimum requirements. The berhalter way
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on November 20, 2023, 09:27:34 PM
And then to continue to argue with his teammates about it.

That was my biggest issue and where I think he’s dug himself a hole.  The outburst was ridiculous, but you can get past that.  But doubling down and going against his teammates is unacceptable.

I don’t think he was talented enough to stay in the team at Barca. Never really given much of a chance during his loan spell at Milan. Otherwise has played well at Ajax and psv.

Agreed.  You have to be a consistent 2 way player at LB/RB to play at Barca, and he never developed the defensive accumen.  And while he’s a very good player going forward, he’s not the Uber elite level you’d need to be at somewhere like Barca.

Milan was a bad fit and he’s been great at PSV and Ajax.  I’d guess he’ll get another look for a top half Bundesliga team in 2025
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on November 20, 2023, 10:27:31 PM
No he shouldn’t. Imagine something like that happening in the copa. A decision like that completely sinks a team. Scally is a completely different player, but is much more reliable in many different facets of the game than Dest.

If he’s still as volatile emotionally next year, then sure. But to my knowledge, this is the first time it’s happened and tons of players have outbursts like that and never repeat them.

If there are concerns he’ll do it again or if Scally is deemed a better fit then by all means don’t call him in. But if he’s the best option he should play assuming he owns his behavior.

I’m not even a big Dest fan, he’s probably my least favorite player in the preferred eleven. I just don’t think tonight’s outburst is enough to end the national team career of a 23 year old player.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 21, 2023, 09:18:28 AM
If he’s still as volatile emotionally next year, then sure. But to my knowledge, this is the first time it’s happened and tons of players have outbursts like that and never repeat them.

If there are concerns he’ll do it again or if Scally is deemed a better fit then by all means don’t call him in. But if he’s the best option he should play assuming he owns his behavior.

I’m not even a big Dest fan, he’s probably my least favorite player in the preferred eleven. I just don’t think tonight’s outburst is enough to end the national team career of a 23 year old player.

He’s a liability defensively, but his abilities going forward lend itself to the way GGG wants to play.

We’ll see what happens. He already came out and posted an apology on instagram. Ultimately it will come down to how his teammates receive him. We’ll see how GGG comes down on him. Personally, I don’t see him coming back until the copa this summer.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on November 21, 2023, 10:23:09 AM
Dest being a true Dutchman is the least dysfunctional aspect of the current US program.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 21, 2023, 04:56:15 PM
TIL: in true away matches vs concacaf opponents, berhalter is 1-4-5
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 26, 2023, 10:59:24 AM
Spurs desperately need to get healthy.  And get to the transfer window
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on November 26, 2023, 12:28:53 PM
Spurs desperately need to get healthy.  And get to the transfer window

Ole panda predicted the downfall a month ago. They’ll be 8-10 points off fourth by Jan 1.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on November 27, 2023, 11:02:45 AM
Every squad goes through the injury issues at some point but interesting that some end up stumbling stumbling stumbling and some end up top of the table.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on November 27, 2023, 11:06:56 AM
Spurs desperately need to get healthy.  And get to the transfer window

FWIW, Spurs were the better team for that match. More shots, more shots on target, far more possession, 2.34 to 1.86 xG.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 27, 2023, 11:11:16 AM
FWIW, Spurs were the better team for that match. More shots, more shots on target, far more possession, 2.34 to 1.86 xG.

Yea.

Their losses look and feel much different under Ange compared to the prior regimes.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on November 27, 2023, 11:13:01 AM
Ole panda predicted the downfall a month ago. They’ll be 8-10 points off fourth by Jan 1.

It's not too surprising. Significant injuries combined with lack of depth (long existing problem) equals some tough results.

They also had some "lucky" outcomes earlier.

It's all evening out a bit.

I think Ange has earned a long leash though
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on November 28, 2023, 01:14:32 PM
It's not too surprising. Significant injuries combined with lack of depth (long existing problem) equals some tough results.

They also had some "lucky" outcomes earlier.

It's all evening out a bit.

I think Ange has earned a long leash though

Betancur out 2.5 months.
Oof.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 03, 2023, 02:13:36 PM
The mindset/cultural change under Ange has been awesome to watch
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on December 03, 2023, 02:27:05 PM
The mindset/cultural change under Ange has been awesome to watch

I enjoy giving spurs fans a hard time as much as anyone else. I also truly did not believe the buy in would be there from the squad on Ange.

I am so wrong and he’s been an absolute treat to watch. His press conferences are life lessons and you can see why he’s such a successful mgr on multiple levels. Incredible guy.

I still don’t think spurs have enough for the top 4,purely based on lack of squad depth, but performances like today give me pause. Also as a Liverpool fan, thank you.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on December 03, 2023, 02:58:15 PM
I enjoy giving spurs fans a hard time as much as anyone else. I also truly did not believe the buy in would be there from the squad on Ange.

I am so wrong and he’s been an absolute treat to watch. His press conferences are life lessons and you can see why he’s such a successful mgr on multiple levels. Incredible guy.

I still don’t think spurs have enough for the top 4,purely based on lack of squad depth, but performances like today give me pause. Also as a Liverpool fan, thank you.

Prior to season, I thought top 8 would be good. After Kane, top 10 became my expectation.

Now, I still don't think they're CL because of lack of depth, but I think top 6 is reasonable.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on December 07, 2023, 08:17:32 PM
USA grouped with Uruguay, Panama and Bolivia for the copa. Absolutely positively no excuses here. Need to get out of the group.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on December 11, 2023, 12:40:26 PM
An interesting look inside of Girona - Talks of recruitment within the CFG network and potential issues next season if they qualify for Champions league because of their direct involvement with Manchester City.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39064330/girona-champions-league-dreams-rich-owners-how-far-go
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on December 12, 2023, 09:40:53 AM
And we thought Mahomes and Reid overreacted ...

ANKARA, Dec 11 (Reuters) - The Turkish Football Federation (TFF) has suspended all leagues on a night of "shame" for the nation's soccer after Ankaragucu's president Faruk Koca punched the referee in the face at the end of their Super Lig home match against Rizespor.
Koca entered the field and hit referee Halil Umut Meler when the final whistle blew after Rizespor scored a 97th minute equaliser in the 1-1 draw at Eryaman Stadium on Monday, footage from state broadcaster TRT showed.
Ankaragucu fans invaded the pitch after the game and Meler was also kicked when he fell, though it was unclear who his assailants were. Meler eventually made it to the dressing room with the help of the police.


https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/turkish-club-president-punches-referee-face-after-super-lig-game-2023-12-11/
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on December 12, 2023, 10:44:07 AM
And we thought Mahomes and Reid overreacted ...

ANKARA, Dec 11 (Reuters) - The Turkish Football Federation (TFF) has suspended all leagues on a night of "shame" for the nation's soccer after Ankaragucu's president Faruk Koca punched the referee in the face at the end of their Super Lig home match against Rizespor.
Koca entered the field and hit referee Halil Umut Meler when the final whistle blew after Rizespor scored a 97th minute equaliser in the 1-1 draw at Eryaman Stadium on Monday, footage from state broadcaster TRT showed.
Ankaragucu fans invaded the pitch after the game and Meler was also kicked when he fell, though it was unclear who his assailants were. Meler eventually made it to the dressing room with the help of the police.


https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/turkish-club-president-punches-referee-face-after-super-lig-game-2023-12-11/

Not at all shocking from a league with a history of shady behavior, but this quote from Koca is hilarious...

"The slap I threw will not cause fractures. After the slap I gave, the referee stood for about 5-10 seconds and then threw himself on the ground. They immediately removed me from the scene because I had heart disease. I am not aware of any events that took place other than this. That's all I have to say"


Directly before that he said he didn't intend to hit him initially, only spit in his face  ;D
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on December 31, 2023, 10:23:03 AM
Ole panda predicted the downfall a month ago. They’ll be 8-10 points off fourth by Jan 1.

Or 1.
 :)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on December 31, 2023, 01:06:27 PM
Or 1.
 :)

Classic spurs fan - content with 5th :-)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on January 03, 2024, 05:04:03 PM
I haven't watched much of the EFL cup other than Fulham's matches. Is Liverpool playing their A squad? If not, will they now that they are in the semifinals?

I'd love to see Fulham in European football and this is probably the best chance they'll have for at least a few years.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 03, 2024, 08:42:26 PM
I haven't watched much of the EFL cup other than Fulham's matches. Is Liverpool playing their A squad? If not, will they now that they are in the semifinals?

I'd love to see Fulham in European football and this is probably the best chance they'll have for at least a few years.

3 days after FA cup tie against Arsenal will be a heavily rotated squad. Will be interesting to see what 11 Fulham put out in their FA cup game. May be a good opportunity to prioritize the league cup over FA cup.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on January 04, 2024, 01:01:16 PM
3 days after FA cup tie against Arsenal will be a heavily rotated squad. Will be interesting to see what 11 Fulham put out in their FA cup game. May be a good opportunity to prioritize the league cup over FA cup.

Yeah. My hope is that tomorrow they rotate the squad since the FA cup tie is against Rotherham at Craven Cottage. Then play the preferred 11-14 guys for the EFL and Premier league matches next week.

I think the win against Arsenal was big Sunday to be able to focus on these two competitions. i don’t think they were ever in real danger finishing in the bottom 3, but that win took increased the gap and took a lot of pressure off.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on January 10, 2024, 04:35:27 PM
Happy that Fulham has a shot going into the second leg, but they definitely let an opportunity slip today.

Liverpool is far more talented, though. We'll see how it goes. Glad there is real reason to watch the 2nd leg.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 11, 2024, 08:33:34 PM
If I’m a Fulham fan, il ecstatic about the first leg and going back to London only down a goal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on January 24, 2024, 01:55:15 PM
Well, here goes nothing. Hopefully it's fun!
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 24, 2024, 04:05:40 PM
Well, here goes nothing. Hopefully it's fun!

I thought it was fun ! Kudos to Fulham for actually playing football. They went out and tried to win it.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: BM1090 on January 24, 2024, 09:56:19 PM
I thought it was fun ! Kudos to Fulham for actually playing football. They went out and tried to win it.

Yeah. Liverpool clearly the better team but they gave it a great effort over two legs. Left everything out there. Nice to see.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 25, 2024, 10:03:21 AM
Lot of resilience out of Fulham.  Lot of lesser squads down 2 goals on aggregate to a superior opponent would have went through the motions, but that late goal put some heat on and made it a decently tense final 10 min.  Crowd at Craven Cottage was great (well aside from the lame jeering/booing of Harvey Elliott)
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on January 26, 2024, 07:21:26 AM
Klopp leaving Liverpool at end of the season.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39392653/liverpool-boss-jurgen-klopp-leave-end-season
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 26, 2024, 08:32:13 AM
Klopp leaving Liverpool at end of the season.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39392653/liverpool-boss-jurgen-klopp-leave-end-season

If I’m calling the shots, I’m backing up the brinks truck for Ange.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 26, 2024, 08:34:23 AM
Pretty sure it will be Xabi right?
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Its DJOver on January 26, 2024, 08:40:43 AM
Pretty sure it will be Xabi right?

They'll certainly make a run at him. He might be waiting for the Madrid job. Couldn't fault him for that, wouldn't fault him if he decides to take the Pool job either. Will be interesting.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: MUfan12 on January 26, 2024, 08:48:54 AM
I ask that everyone respect my privacy during this difficult time.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 26, 2024, 08:56:10 AM
Pretty sure it will be Xabi right?

Will most likely be xabi imo. Bookies favorite too.

I bet lijnders goes to leverkusen.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on January 26, 2024, 09:16:51 AM
If I’m calling the shots, I’m backing up the brinks truck for Ange.

He's signed through 2027. Not sure there's any amount of money Levy would accept to endure the murderous rage that would ensue.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 26, 2024, 09:33:58 AM
He's signed through 2027. Not sure there's any amount of money Levy would accept to endure the murderous rage that would ensue.

Contracts are meant to be broken pac man
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on January 26, 2024, 11:08:49 AM
Contracts are meant to be broken pac man

"Daniel Levy is the kind of guy who lets valuable assets walk out the door, especially when they're under control for several years."
- Harry Kane
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 26, 2024, 12:50:14 PM
I'm still in a bit of shock.  Not surprised by the overall result, we all knew he wasn't going to be Sir Alec and stay for 20+ years, but shocked by the suddeness of it. I thought it would at least be a full decade.  Pretty remarkable that he's been a manager for nearly 25 years now and has only had 3 stops.  Crazy when even the legends pop around quickly.

Can't blame him for being worn out.  He's accomplished everything you could ask for outside of a treble.  Brought Liverpool back to the European elite while playing a super fun brand of soccer to watch and creating a joyous club culture.  I remember him leaving Dortmund and thinking he was a potential dream fit.  Was beside myself when he arrived and he exceeded what I expected.

Xabi Alonso is obviously a very attractive choice for a variety of reasons.  de Zerbi is an intriguing name as well.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 26, 2024, 01:21:25 PM
I'm still in a bit of shock.  Not surprised by the overall result, we all knew he wasn't going to be Sir Alec and stay for 20+ years, but shocked by the suddeness of it. I thought it would at least be a full decade.  Pretty remarkable that he's been a manager for nearly 25 years now and has only had 3 stops.  Crazy when even the legends pop around quickly.

Can't blame him for being worn out.  He's accomplished everything you could ask for outside of a treble.  Brought Liverpool back to the European elite while playing a super fun brand of soccer to watch and creating a joyous club culture.  I remember him leaving Dortmund and thinking he was a potential dream fit.  Was beside myself when he arrived and he exceeded what I expected.

Xabi Alonso is obviously a very attractive choice for a variety of reasons.  de Zerbi is an intriguing name as well.

So much fun watching the transformation. I’ll always remember the dortmund comeback in Europa league semis (?) as the start of something so so special.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: panda on January 28, 2024, 06:58:42 AM
Maidstone onto the 5th ! round of the FA cup. Incredible scenes
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 28, 2024, 11:51:28 AM
Reminding us why everyone hates them, I’ve seen more than a few Man Utd fan accounts using Klopp’s announcement as a way to mock him and Liverpool saying it shows how much better Sir Alec was, saying it’s laughable to call Klopp transformative (and for some reason deciding to reference Busby post-Munich as better transformation) and saying only 1 CL and 1 EPL title in his era being lauded is a joke.

I guess that kind of historical fart sniffing is all you can do when you’ve not won anything of note (outside of Europa) in a decade plus and are looking like you won’t be in either European competition while Liverpool chases another title.

Oh also, this shows Klopp’s “ego” instead of quietly doing it after the season, cause we all know humbleness and zero fanfare is most associated with Utd
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on January 31, 2024, 04:38:15 PM
Reyna to Nottingham Forest is a done (loan) deal.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 31, 2024, 04:53:43 PM
Reyna to Nottingham Forest is a done (loan) deal.

I don't like that move for Reyna or his development regarding the USMNT
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Pakuni on January 31, 2024, 04:57:08 PM
I don't like that move for Reyna or his development regarding the USMNT

Problem is, he wasn't playing at Dortmund.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on January 31, 2024, 04:59:19 PM
Problem is, he wasn't playing at Dortmund.

Correct. Take what you can get, I guess.

But 11 behind the ball, bunker, play in your own half is not going to help him a ton.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: JWags85 on January 31, 2024, 05:17:57 PM
Correct. Take what you can get, I guess.

But 11 behind the ball, bunker, play in your own half is not going to help him a ton.

Agreed.  I was very encouraged by reports of him and Fiorentina, but Forest is just a poor match stylistically.  I imagine this goes as well as McKinnie at Leeds
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Golden Avalanche on February 01, 2024, 10:52:00 AM
Bad stuff for Gio and not ideal considering Berhalter holds a grudge.
Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: Sandstone on February 02, 2024, 11:57:34 AM
U17 Women's CONCACAF Championship/WC qualifiers this weekend on FS2. USA plays grouo play Today, Sunday' Tuesday in Toluca, Mexico. (1 EST). Two professional players for the U.S..for the first time.


Title: Re: Futbol Talk
Post by: jesmu84 on March 24, 2024, 11:26:34 PM
Dos a cero

https://twitter.com/usmntonly/status/1772112417750712684?t=i-5S4hXj7xg2HwsyMF4uaA&s=19