Futbol Talk

[shoothoops]

https://twitter.com/si_soccer/status/1332392475772772353?s=19

Big time finish from Rose Lavelle yesterday in 2-0 dub over Netherlands. A bit rusty, if uneven play for USWNT, but very convincing win over World No. 4.

Nice to see the Mewis sisters play together, snd, some of the younger players get some of their first time. Sophia Smith is a player.

[shoothoops]

Some nice goals today:

Pulisic:

https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1335343172361261058?s=19

McKennie:

https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1335294801844068353?s=19

Reyna:

https://twitter.com/rogbennett/status/1335251114489425920?s=19

[ZiggysFryBoy]

North London remains lilywhite!

[JWags85]

Not a Spurs supporter, but I love Jose and think football, especially English football, is better with him at the helm of a club playing well. We all know his lifecycle, but having Spurs make a run at a title and other silverware would be amazing both in the sense that people have claimed he’s lost his touch and that he would be doing it at a club like Tottenham and not a big money behemoth like in his past

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

North London remains lilywhite!

FA Cup run was a mirage.

[shoothoops]

Not a Spurs supporter, but I love Jose and think football, especially English football, is better with him at the helm of a club playing well. We all know his lifecycle, but having Spurs make a run at a title and other silverware would be amazing both in the sense that people have claimed he’s lost his touch and that he would be doing it at a club like Tottenham and not a big money behemoth like in his past

Tottenham isn't exactly Little Sisters of the Poor. Mourinho is the 2nd highest paid Manager in the league. Spurs more than doubled their revenue the prior half decade before his hire. Increased broadcast money, sponsor money, other etc... They were 8th in World Revenue for 2018-2019 (better than Chelsea and Arsenal), 4th richest English Club. They may be less marketed as some of the others at and near the $ top, but they are a big money club.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Tottenham isn't exactly Little Sisters of the Poor. Mourinho is the 2nd highest paid Manager in the league. Spurs more than doubled their revenue the prior half decade before his hire. Increased broadcast money, sponsor money, other etc... They were 8th in World Revenue for 2018-2019 (better than Chelsea and Arsenal), 4th richest English Club. They may be less marketed as some of the others at and near the $ top, but they are a big money club.

Dont think anyone is saying that Tottenham are not a huge revenue club.  But they dont spend like United, RM, or Chelsea.

[shoothoops]

Dont think anyone is saying that Tottenham are not a huge revenue club.  But they dont spend like United, RM, or Chelsea.

Their spending has been in a similar range to Chelsea the past five years, which doesn't include the money spent on their new $1 Billion plus stadium. 

[Pakuni]

Their spending has been in a similar range to Chelsea the past five years, which doesn't include the money spent on their new $1 Billion plus stadium.

Still looking for five-year figures, but over the past decade, Chelsea has spent 1.38 billion pounds in the transfer market, second only to Man City. Tottenham has 626 million.
This year, Chelsea spent 226 million pounds to Tottenham's 62 million.
Doesn't seem a similar range.

[JWags85]

Still looking for five-year figures, but over the past decade, Chelsea has spent 1.38 billion pounds in the transfer market, second only to Man City. Tottenham has 626 million.
This year, Chelsea spent 226 million pounds to Tottenham's 62 million.
Doesn't seem a similar range.

Tottenham has signed 2 players for over £40MM, ever. Sanchez and Ndombele.  Since 2017 when they signed Sanchez, Chelsea has signed 11.

No, Tottenham isn’t Bournemouth. And they have grown in stature as a club both in reputation and finances. But they aren’t nearly the spenders of the top clubs they compete with in Spain, Germany, or Italy, much less the EPL

[shoothoops]

Still looking for five-year figures, but over the past decade, Chelsea has spent 1.38 billion pounds in the transfer market, second only to Man City. Tottenham has 626 million.
This year, Chelsea spent 226 million pounds to Tottenham's 62 million.
Doesn't seem a similar range.

Mourinho didn't become the manager 10 years ago. That is the discussion. In my opinion, he isn't going to go somewhere without the chance to win at the highest level.

Spending similar to Chelsea for the past 5 years, a place where he managed twice before, overtaking them in revenue, entering a new $1 Billion stadium, with team friendly deals for Heung-min Son, and Lucas Moura. (How you spend also matters in addition to how much). Vastly increased revenues, improved results.

Mourinho is also the 2nd highest paid Manager in the league, so he's certainly getting his money. As for the team, we'll see, with the new stadium, new revenue streams and increased revenue, if he gets to field  championship caliber teams. There is certainly the expectation going there that Spurs will be more competitive spenders more so than in their past.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Levy will never become a spend just to spend chairman, unlike United, chelsea and Woolwich.

The no new signings for 2 windows was as much Poch as the club not willing to spend.  I love Poch,  it he was stubborn and didn't want to deviate from what he wanted.

Tottenham have their wage structure and arent going to blow it up for anyone.   What they do spend on is bonuses, which is a lot better than paying Ozil $350k to watch AFTV on match day....

[jesmu84]

Mourinho didn't become the manager 10 years ago. That is the discussion. In my opinion, he isn't going to go somewhere without the chance to win at the highest level.

Spending similar to Chelsea for the past 5 years, a place where he managed twice before, overtaking them in revenue, entering a new $1 Billion stadium, with team friendly deals for Heung-min Son, and Lucas Moura. (How you spend also matters in addition to how much). Vastly increased revenues, improved results.

Mourinho is also the 2nd highest paid Manager in the league, so he's certainly getting his money. As for the team, we'll see, with the new stadium, new revenue streams and increased revenue, if he gets to field  championship caliber teams. There is certainly the expectation going there that Spurs will be more competitive spenders more so than in their past.

Source?

[shoothoops]

Source?

Transfermarkt.

[Pakuni]

Transfermarkt.

Five year expenditures, according to Transfermarkt:

Chelsea - 983.73 million
Tottenham - 512.6 million

Still not seeing how you categorize this as a "similar range." That's a gap of nearly 100 million per season.

Not sure this link will work, but if not you can use the sorting tool yourself.
https://www.transfermarkt.us/transfers/einnahmenausgaben/statistik/plus/0?ids=a&sa=&saison_id=2016&saison_id_bis=2020&land_id=189&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

[shoothoops]

Five year expenditures, according to Transfermarkt:

Chelsea - 983.73 million
Tottenham - 512.6 million

Still not seeing how you categorize this as a "similar range." That's a gap of nearly 100 million per season.

Not sure this link will work, but if not you can use the sorting tool yourself.
https://www.transfermarkt.us/transfers/einnahmenausgaben/statistik/plus/0?ids=a&sa=&saison_id=2016&saison_id_bis=2020&land_id=189&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

My numbers are the period ending 19/20 not 2021. And they include selling not just buying.

And, the overall point remains the same. Mourinho went somewhere that would pay him among the top $ in the league. And, with recently increased revenue (doubled over this period), $ 1 Billion Stadium spending, etc....the expectation is that Tottenham would be able to compete with top tier clubs. No one expects them to wildly spend, or change dramatically.  But I also don't believe he'd go there if these things were not happening.

[Pakuni]

My numbers are the period ending 19/20 not 2021. And they include selling not just buying.

Selling isn't spending.
And changing the years doesn't change the spending difference. For the five-year period you're using, it's 817.96 million to 469.15 million ... a difference of about 70 million a year. Still not similar.

[shoothoops]

Selling isn't spending.
And changing the years doesn't change the spending difference. For the five-year period you're using, it's 817.96 million to 469.15 million ... a difference of about 70 million a year. Still not similar.

I used net spending.

And again, it doesn’t change anything about the same point made over several posts.

[Pakuni]

I used net spending.

And again, it doesn’t change anything about the same point made over several posts.

But that's all conjecture about what might happen in the future, not evidence that they have spent "in a similar range to Chelsea." The former is speculation. The latter is provably incorrect.

Since you keep on bringing up the stadium, that's a long-term investment that may or may not eventually produce revenues that will be spent on players. We have no idea, but we do know that it's not proof of  - or even related to - past spending.

[Its DJOver]

Silly argument all around IMO.  All big clubs spend big, and exact $ can be misleading.  For example, Spurs have three players in their rotation that are in on loan, that's more than the rest of the "big 6" combined.  That means you're not paying transfer fees on those players.  Vinicius + Bale + Fernandes transfermarkt value is about 70 mil. That's great from a Spurs perspective as that's money saved (as well as $ saved on Bale's salary).  The problem then comes when those loans expire, and you have to fill that roster spot, either from buying the former "loanee", buying or loaning a different player, or promoting from the academy.  The result of that decision is a better determination for total $ spent IMO. 

Also worth noting that Reguilon came at below market value because Spurs agreed to a "buy back" clause.  Smart from certain perspectives in that you got a quality player at below market price, and forced the other bidder for him (Man U) to scramble and end up getting an older, worse option in Alex Tellas.  But if that clause is activated, they could be in trouble, especially if they don't think that Sessegnon is ready yet, you may be back to seeing Ben Davies as the starting LB.  Not a great option IMO.

Point is, that there are plenty of ways to manipulate spending, and once you get figures as high as they are, it gets more and more grey.  Not saying that Spurs are doing it the right or wrong way, it's just the way that they are currently operating, and reflects a lower total wage bill.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Gedson Fernandes hasn't played much at all, he was a stopgap loan last winter when The Goat got hurt.   He's not even registered for Europa.  I wouldn't be surprised to see his loan terminated in January.

Bale is a unique situation, in that Madrid was desperate to unload at least part of his wages, as he wasn't going to play at all under Zidane.   Call it a "hometown" discount, but i dont think there is any other player in any league in Bale's situation.

Reguilon was 3rd choice LB at RM.  the buyback has to include the player agreeing to return to RM in the next two years.   RM cant just trigger the buyback.  Would he go? Maybe?  This alwas a great piece of business feom Levy.

Vinicius is a backup to Harry Kane.  Buying a backup has proven next to impossible (Llorente, Janssen, using Lucas out of position.)  Son and Kane getting injured during the same time last year just reinforced how important getting a backup striker was, at least until Parrott/Scarlett are ready.

[Its DJOver]

Gedson Fernandes hasn't played much at all, he was a stopgap loan last winter when The Goat got hurt.   He's not even registered for Europa.  I wouldn't be surprised to see his loan terminated in January.

Bale is a unique situation, in that Madrid was desperate to unload at least part of his wages, as he wasn't going to play at all under Zidane.   Call it a "hometown" discount, but i dont think there is any other player in any league in Bale's situation.

Reguilon was 3rd choice LB at RM.  the buyback has to include the player agreeing to return to RM in the next two years.   RM cant just trigger the buyback.  Would he go? Maybe?  This alwas a great piece of business feom Levy.

Vinicius is a backup to Harry Kane.  Buying a backup has proven next to impossible (Llorente, Janssen, using Lucas out of position.)  Son and Kane getting injured during the same time last year just reinforced how important getting a backup striker was, at least until Parrott/Scarlett are ready.

I'm not saying that it's not smart in some aspects, but it does contain some risks that buying players straight up doesn't have, which is why you don't see many of the top clubs doing it all that frequently.  It is also part of the explanation of why the total spent in the windows varies so much.  There are plenty of ways to (legally) manipulate your books.

Edit: Also, while I don't know what going on in his head, I would find it very hard for a Spanish International from their academy to turn Real down if they come calling.  Nothing against Spurs, that'd just be an awfully tough sell considering Reguilon represented them at every level.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I'm not saying that it's not smart in some aspects, but it does contain some risks that buying players straight up doesn't have, which is why you don't see many of the top clubs doing it all that frequently.  It is also part of the explanation of why the total spent in the windows varies so much.  There are plenty of ways to (legally) manipulate your books.

Edit: Also, while I don't know what going on in his head, I would find it very hard for a Spanish International from their academy to turn Real down if they come calling.  Nothing against Spurs, that'd just be an awfully tough sell considering Reguilon represented them at every level.

Starting LB for the top team in the prem is a pretty good reason.  Plus he seems pretty happy at Spurs.

And if Real triggers the buyback and Reguilon agrees to go, Real has to pay a premium (10 or 15m, IIRC).  Use that to buy another LB or Cirkin will be ready to go by then and use the cash for another position of need.  Don Levy knows how to make a deal.

[Its DJOver]

  

I'm happy for you that you can have such a sense of optimism about something in 2020.

[Pakuni]

Edit: Also, while I don't know what going on in his head, I would find it very hard for a Spanish International from their academy to turn Real down if they come calling.  Nothing against Spurs, that'd just be an awfully tough sell considering Reguilon represented them at every level.

Reguilon has been very good for Spurs, but if RM wants to pay 40.5 million pounds for a player they sold a year ago for 25 million, I suspect Levy will gladly take the 15 million profit and go hunting for another LB.