Futbol Talk

[Golden Avalanche]

Cause Donovan also misses Wando's absolute sitter? Please

Why do you assume Donovan is on the field?

At that point he was a part time player still working off the rust of his sabbatical to refocus his life and organize his priorities. If he couldn't hack it in the run up to the Cup, why would he be tasked with hacking it in a Round of 16 match?

Also, when he did get playing time in 2013/2014 Donovan was playing deeper then earlier in career. Why are you so convinced Donovan would be the furthest American forward? Why would Klinsmann have confidence in Donovan leading the line late in a knockout match when he didn't have confidence in Donavan showing commitment to the program?

[Its DJOver]

Donovan had no place on that team, and I agree, his presence would not have changed anything for the better.  Why bring a guy to be the leader when his heart has never really been in it?

Still can't believe we are two weeks away from a World Cup without the US.  So disappointing.  But then again, Italy, Netherlands and Chile all must be feeling the same way.

What evidence do you have to support this claim?

[Its DJOver]

Why do you assume Donovan is on the field?

At that point he was a part time player still working off the rust of his sabbatical to refocus his life and organize his priorities. If he couldn't hack it in the run up to the Cup, why would he be tasked with hacking it in a Round of 16 match?

Also, when he did get playing time in 2013/2014 Donovan was playing deeper then earlier in career. Why are you so convinced Donovan would be the furthest American forward? Why would Klinsmann have confidence in Donovan leading the line late in a knockout match when he didn't have confidence in Donavan showing commitment to the program?

The thing is, there was room for both on the squad.  Donovan should not have been starting, but when Jozy goes down against Ghana, I would much rather have one of the most experienced Americans of all time coming in off the bench than a 23 year old Aaron Johannsson.  When you lose a player after 20 minutes your gameplan changes, Donovan's experience would have helped.

[Golden Avalanche]

Juve has made 2 champions league finals in the last 5 years.  Agree that Serie A has been below the other top four, but it's still the 4th best league in the world.  Throw in that both Milan clubs recently had big money takeovers and they're both on the rise. 

Also there is no way that England is "mediocre" across the board.

Juventus is an elite club in an average league. Winning seven in a row validates that. Inter is looking to sell Icardi this summer, which is odd for a club on the rise. As for Milan, they are on the cusp of being tossed from UEFA competition for financial wrongdoing. Serie A was an elite league in the 1990s. Far cry from it now.

The EPL is not a great product. Clubs from 9-20 play an astonishingly poor brand of football for 33 of their 38 rounds. Look at the "elite" clubs in England......Man United park the bus and hope to nick one late; Liverpool can score four in 30 minutes and then give up five in the next 30 minutes; Chelsea had months of terrible play one year after winning the title; Arsenal has been fatally flawed for the past 10 years and finished in the top four nearly every season; and Tottenham is a club who've been irrelevant for 40 years but now they finish fourth and people think they're "elite". Citeh is elite.

Americans love the EPL because it's a simple follow thanks to the language and the marketing and the MLS crossover retirement agreement we seem to have brokered. If you watch the game from Spain or Germany the level of play throughout the league is well ahead of England.

[Golden Avalanche]

The thing is, there was room for both on the squad.  Donovan should not have been starting, but when Jozy goes down against Ghana, I would much rather have one of the most experienced Americans of all time coming in off the bench than a 23 year old Aaron Johannsson.  When you lose a player after 20 minutes your gameplan changes, Donovan's experience would have helped.

If there's room for both, who do you remove to include Donovan?

I don't understand your point about Donovan and the Ghana match. The United States won against Ghana so clearly they didn't miss a thing not having Donovan as an option off the bench.

[Its DJOver]

Juventus is an elite club in an average league. Winning seven in a row validates that. Inter is looking to sell Icardi this summer, which is odd for a club on the rise. As for Milan, they are on the cusp of being tossed from UEFA competition for financial wrongdoing. Serie A was an elite league in the 1990s. Far cry from it now.

The EPL is not a great product. Clubs from 9-20 play an astonishingly poor brand of football for 33 of their 38 rounds. Look at the "elite" clubs in England......Man United park the bus and hope to nick one late; Liverpool can score four in 30 minutes and then give up five in the next 30 minutes; Chelsea had months of terrible play one year after winning the title; Arsenal has been fatally flawed for the past 10 years and finished in the top four nearly every season; and Tottenham is a club who've been irrelevant for 40 years but now they finish fourth and people think they're "elite". Citeh is elite.

Americans love the EPL because it's a simple follow thanks to the language and the marketing and the MLS crossover retirement agreement we seem to have brokered. If you watch the game from Spain or Germany the level of play throughout the league is well ahead of England.

Strange to omit Napoli when discussing Serie a, because they were arguably better than Juve, and could keep their core midfield of Mertens, Hamsik, Insigne, and Milik together. If PSG haven't been removed from uefa than AC Milan has nothing to worry about.  Throw in that Roma made the Champions League semi's and Lazio finished 5th and are likely to have 100+mil to spend from the sale of Savic, they're on the upswing too.  Serie A is most definitely on the rise.

The EPL is arguably the best league in the world. Agree that Arsenal has been a trainwreck for the last couple of years, but now that Wenger is gone they should improve.  Chelsea is always going to be up and down under Abromivich, its been that way for over a decade now, I fully expect them to compete for the title next year.  Spurs are the example of how to win without a budget, just look at what they turned the Bale money into.  Erikson, Dier, Kane, and Alli.  That is a brilliant turnaround.  Jose is always going to play defensive, its the same style he played when he was manager of Real Madrid.  Liverpool just need a keeper now that they have Van Dijk, Klopp is one of the best in the world, once again his style at Liverpool is the same as it was at Dortmund. 

The lower tier EPL teams also play good if not especially sexy too.  You're gonna get more flash in La Liga, but a club like Burnley, Leicester, and Bournmouth all play extremely different styles and they all work.  The only games that were bad to watch were when West Brom would conced 80% possession just to get a 0-0 draw, but they're down now so it shouldn't be a problem for at least a year.

As for the EPL MLS crossover, I'm not sure where you think Kaka, Villa, or Pirlo came from.  Giovinco also came to the MLS when he was 28 and still in his prime.

[Its DJOver]

If there's room for both, who do you remove to include Donovan?

I don't understand your point about Donovan and the Ghana match. The United States won against Ghana so clearly they didn't miss a thing not having Donovan as an option off the bench.

I remove Johannsson.  He has done absolutely nothing since to prove that his inclusion was worth it. 

True that the US won against Ghana, but it was by no means easy or pretty.  I'm suggesting that having another experienced player, that can play in the midfield whereas Aaron can only play up top, would have made things much smoother, rather than the last ditch defending/ boot and chase that the US in the 90s was known for.  I don't think Klisnmanns master plan ever had that much defensive third play in it, especially against a team ranked in the 30s when the US was in the teens.

[GGGG]

The EPL is not a great product. Clubs from 9-20 play an astonishingly poor brand of football for 33 of their 38 rounds.

What major league CAN'T you say that about?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Had to break my hiatus for this one. I have a hard time believing that the best MLS team would even be able to make it out of the Championship.

Fulham, Wolverhampton, Derby, would all roll though the MLS.

[Its DJOver]

Had to break my hiatus for this one. I have a hard time believing that the best MLS team would even be able to make it out of the Championship.

Fulham, Wolverhampton, Derby, would all roll though the MLS.

Agree, no MLS club could make it in the top four countries.  I could see one finishing mid table in France or Portugal though.

[JWags85]

Agree, no MLS club could make it in the top four countries.  I could see one finishing mid table in France or Portugal though.

Yep mid-table in the Championship seems about right for a Sporting KC or Toronto FC (from last year).  The problem is you have teams like LA Galaxy or NYFC the last few years who underperform cause they are Frankenstein units meant to showcase an aging European star.

Its interesting how while the former EPL, and similar league, stars get the massive contracts and attention, most of the DPs and guys getting major money contracts are just decent to above average guys from places like the Argentina Superliga or Danish or Swiss leagues, leagues that are objectively on par, if not lower than MLS.  Argentina's top is better, but not the meat of the league after Boca and 1-2 others.

[brewcity77]

Had to break my hiatus for this one. I have a hard time believing that the best MLS team would even be able to make it out of the Championship.

Fulham, Wolverhampton, Derby, would all roll though the MLS.

The Championship, no. But that's because the Championship is by far the best second tier in the world. The Championship is better than many European top-tier leagues. Also, it's a far more entertaining league than the Premiership ever will be.

The Prem, like Serie A and La Liga, are basically 2-4 teams worth a damn and a load of crap below. The Championship has 10-12 legit contenders to start every year, and invariably some team picked for the bottom half makes the playoffs while one of the favorites is fighting relegation by Christmas.

No, it doesn't have the star power or reward of European play, but for excitement and entertainment value, it can't be beat.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The Championship, no. But that's because the Championship is by far the best second tier in the world. The Championship is better than many European top-tier leagues. Also, it's a far more entertaining league than the Premiership ever will be.

The Prem, like Serie A and La Liga, are basically 2-4 teams worth a damn and a load of crap below. The Championship has 10-12 legit contenders to start every year, and invariably some team picked for the bottom half makes the playoffs while one of the favorites is fighting relegation by Christmas.

No, it doesn't have the star power or reward of European play, but for excitement and entertainment value, it can't be beat.

Agree 100% I found myself watching way more Championship games than Premier League games this season. I'm just saying the likes of Sessegnon and Grealish would probably make the US squad year on most occasions, but they really weren't even being considered for a "meh" England side.

The US should be sending it's best players to Europe, I know many would like to think the MLS is good enough for player development, but it's really not near that point at the moment. Back it with enough money and sure, but not at the moment.

[JWags85]

Agree 100% I found myself watching way more Championship games than Premier League games this season. I'm just saying the likes of Sessegnon and Grealish would probably make the US squad year on most occasions, but they really weren't even being considered for a "meh" England side.

The US should be sending it's best players to Europe, I know many would like to think the MLS is good enough for player development, but it's really not near that point at the moment. Back it with enough money and sure, but not at the moment.

I think its more optics for England. Its a proud, id say arrogant, footballing nation, so they need their national team filled with players for top 4 clubs.  If Sessegnon makes a move that he constantly gets rumored for, I think he gets a call up.

But totally agree.  Look what playing for Nottingham did for Eric Lichaj.  Brought him back into the national team picture after being left for dead.  Pretty sure Tim Ream would never get USMNT minutes if he was still in the MLS.  And now Novakovich is showing what happens when you have talent and go get your minutes elsewhere.  Lets just hope he's not another comedown after scoring goals at will in the Netherlands like Johannson and Jozy.

[BM1090]

Not to mention Fox.

Fox is really mailing it in. It's going to be so disappointing. I'm pretty anti ESPN but they need the world cup back ASAP.

[Golden Avalanche]

Strange to omit Napoli when discussing Serie a, because they were arguably better than Juve, and could keep their core midfield of Mertens, Hamsik, Insigne, and Milik together. If PSG haven't been removed from uefa than AC Milan has nothing to worry about.  Throw in that Roma made the Champions League semi's and Lazio finished 5th and are likely to have 100+mil to spend from the sale of Savic, they're on the upswing too.  Serie A is most definitely on the rise.

The EPL is arguably the best league in the world. Agree that Arsenal has been a trainwreck for the last couple of years, but now that Wenger is gone they should improve.  Chelsea is always going to be up and down under Abromivich, its been that way for over a decade now, I fully expect them to compete for the title next year.  Spurs are the example of how to win without a budget, just look at what they turned the Bale money into.  Erikson, Dier, Kane, and Alli.  That is a brilliant turnaround.  Jose is always going to play defensive, its the same style he played when he was manager of Real Madrid.  Liverpool just need a keeper now that they have Van Dijk, Klopp is one of the best in the world, once again his style at Liverpool is the same as it was at Dortmund. 

The lower tier EPL teams also play good if not especially sexy too.  You're gonna get more flash in La Liga, but a club like Burnley, Leicester, and Bournmouth all play extremely different styles and they all work.  The only games that were bad to watch were when West Brom would conced 80% possession just to get a 0-0 draw, but they're down now so it shouldn't be a problem for at least a year.

As for the EPL MLS crossover, I'm not sure where you think Kaka, Villa, or Pirlo came from.  Giovinco also came to the MLS when he was 28 and still in his prime.

You argue that Serie A is on the rise which makes my case that it is not an "elite" league. It may one day return to its glory of the 1990s but it is not there now.

No one outside of England or America would argue the EPL is the greatest league in the world. In fact, you rely upon European achievement to make the case for clubs in Italy being elite and yet the European trophies have been dominated over the last decade by Spain. Arguing EPL is better then La Liga fails your European trophy test of greatness.

Gerrard played in the EPL, right? How'd he do in LA? Lampard played in the EPL, right? How'd he do in NYC? Rooney played in the EPL, right? How do you think he'll do in DC? I'm specifically talking about players from the EPL coming over to MLS when their careers are clearly finished.

I remove Johannsson.  He has done absolutely nothing since to prove that his inclusion was worth it. 

True that the US won against Ghana, but it was by no means easy or pretty.  I'm suggesting that having another experienced player, that can play in the midfield whereas Aaron can only play up top, would have made things much smoother, rather than the last ditch defending/ boot and chase that the US in the 90s was known for.  I don't think Klisnmanns master plan ever had that much defensive third play in it, especially against a team ranked in the 30s when the US was in the teens.

The revisionist history is astonishing. Who cares if it wasn't easy or pretty? The US won the match. We are not Argentina or France or Brasil. We cannot downgrade victories in a World Cup because they weren't sexy enough. Everyone has a different thought process but seeing a manager replace an injured forward with a forward does not strike me as the wrong decision.

And you say Johannsson wasn't worthy of selection only because he's been snakebitten with injury after the 2014 World Cup? Wild. Explain to me why him scoring nearly 20 goals in the Eredivisie in the season leading up to Brasil was not good enough to be in the US squad.

[Golden Avalanche]

What major league CAN'T you say that about?

Germany.

[Its DJOver]

You argue that Serie A is on the rise which makes my case that it is not an "elite" league. It may one day return to its glory of the 1990s but it is not there now.

No one outside of England or America would argue the EPL is the greatest league in the world. In fact, you rely upon European achievement to make the case for clubs in Italy being elite and yet the European trophies have been dominated over the last decade by Spain. Arguing EPL is better then La Liga fails your European trophy test of greatness.

Gerrard played in the EPL, right? How'd he do in LA? Lampard played in the EPL, right? How'd he do in NYC? Rooney played in the EPL, right? How do you think he'll do in DC? I'm specifically talking about players from the EPL coming over to MLS when their careers are clearly finished.


The revisionist history is astonishing. Who cares if it wasn't easy or pretty? The US won the match. We are not Argentina or France or Brasil. We cannot downgrade victories in a World Cup because they weren't sexy enough. Everyone has a different thought process but seeing a manager replace an injured forward with a forward does not strike me as the wrong decision.

And you say Johannsson wasn't worthy of selection only because he's been snakebitten with injury after the 2014 World Cup? Wild. Explain to me why him scoring nearly 20 goals in the Eredivisie in the season leading up to Brasil was not good enough to be in the US squad.

I said that it was below England, Germany and Spain.  Serie a is not as good as it was in the 90s correct, but it is still the 4th best in the world and is still producing world class talents.  I guess you think that only 2 leagues in the world are elite. 

Real Madrid's core is getting up there in age (Ronaldo, Benzema, Ramos, Marcelo, Modric), same with Barca (Pique, Vermaelen, Iniesta, Rakitic, Messi, Suarez), same with Bayern (Neuer, Rafinha, Ribery, Robben, Vidal, Lewandowski), same with Juve (Gigi, Chiellini, Howedes, Cuadrado, Khedira, Marchisio, Matuidi, Higuain, Mandzukic)  Every player listed is 30+.  They'll still buy good young players, but the core of Man City is young (Ederson, Laporte, Stones, Mendy, De Bruyne, Sane, Foden, Jesus, Sterling) the core of Liverpool is young (Van Dijk, Mane, OX, Firmino, Salah, Solanke), the core of Spurs is young (Aurier, Davies, Sanchez, Alli, Dier, Eriksen, Son, Lamela, Kane), the core of Man United is young (Jones, Lingard, Pogba, Lukaku, Martial, Rashford)  All player under 26.  Arsenal are going to go through a complete overhaul, same with Chelsea.

European trophies have been dominated by one club the last 5 years, that one club just happens to be from Spain.  There is really nothing of substance after 3 maybe 4 clubs in Spain (Sevilla hasn't done much since Emery left, and now he's at Arsenal so expect them to back soon).  You can say that you prefer the style of La Liga over the EPL, but to say that level of competition after the top tier teams is greater than in England is foolish.

Lampard and Gerrard each played one year, found that the couldn't cut it and left.  There is a history of players coming over and having a lot left in the tank.  Robbie Keane played 5 season, Beckham played 6 seasons.  There has been a wide range of success for players coming from England to the MLS.  I believe that Rooney can make it for a while, 10 goals in 31 appearances isn't a bad turnover and that's what he did last year at Everton. 

As for the world cup results.  I care more about the way we play rather than results.  The game vs Portugal was probably the best a United States team has ever played and we only got a draw.  Ghana absolutely dominated us. 21 shots to 8. 62% possession to 38%. 7 corners to 3.  We may have won, but we were not the better team.  If we had played that way against Portugal and Germany we would not have advanced from the group, luckily we stepped our game up and got a bit of luck, with Portugals goal difference being destroyed when they played Germany and Ghana losing to Portugal when they could have still stolen our spot.  Also we were clearly trying to park the bus, doing that with 2 up top is a bad managerial decision.  Dempsey works with Jozy because they are two differet types of players, Jozy can hold the ball up until the mids arrive, Dempsey is more of an over the top type forward.  That is the same style of play the Johannsson plays, having two forwards out there making the same runs is a poor managerial decision.  I would have had Donovan playing just behind Dempsey to help clog the midfield and be another player that can pick a pass to Dempsey making a run.  Switch to 4-4-1-1 rather than sticking with a 4-4-2.  A 4-4-2 only works if you have two different styles of forwards or world class midfielders, and we had neither once Jozy went down.

Germany.

This is not true, goal difference may not have been as bad for the bottom teams because there are not as many elite teams in Germany, but Mainz through Cologne were pretty terrible all year.

[brewcity77]

Another solid effort yesterday. A few thoughts on performances.

• Central defense: Admittedly they weren't blameless on the goal, but the four that played (Miazga, Parker, Palmer-Brown, Carter-Williams) all were stout and did more right than wrong. They played as a unit, covered each other's mistakes, and provided hope against a devastating attack. It will be interesting to see how the old mainstays fit in if this is the system going forward.
  
• Zach Steffen: He deserved to give up a goal, but it was Paul Pogba's early shot off the post that actually beat him. His defense let him down on the equalizer. Steffen made a number of quality saves and was generally in the right place at the right time. Looked like a future #1.
  
• Shaq Moore: One of the few players that looked good going forward. He also was decent in defense. Gave away a few too many free kicks, but better than allowing uncontested chances. Will provide competition to Yedlin and fit well as a wing back.
  
• Antonee Robinson: I really like this kid. Still nervous to be excited about any LB, but he has pace and promise.
  
• Tyler Adams: Great workrate in what was a forgettable day for most of the front five. Needs to add some muscle, but competed and provided cover for the defense against really tough opposition.
  
• Julian Green: He didn't do much, but that was a hell of a first touch.

[jesmu84]

Another solid effort yesterday. A few thoughts on performances.

• Central defense: Admittedly they weren't blameless on the goal, but the four that played (Miazga, Parker, Palmer-Brown, Carter-Williams) all were stout and did more right than wrong. They played as a unit, covered each other's mistakes, and provided hope against a devastating attack. It will be interesting to see how the old mainstays fit in if this is the system going forward.
  
• Zach Steffen: He deserved to give up a goal, but it was Paul Pogba's early shot off the post that actually beat him. His defense let him down on the equalizer. Steffen made a number of quality saves and was generally in the right place at the right time. Looked like a future #1.
  
• Shaq Moore: One of the few players that looked good going forward. He also was decent in defense. Gave away a few too many free kicks, but better than allowing uncontested chances. Will provide competition to Yedlin and fit well as a wing back.
  
• Antonee Robinson: I really like this kid. Still nervous to be excited about any LB, but he has pace and promise.
  
• Tyler Adams: Great workrate in what was a forgettable day for most of the front five. Needs to add some muscle, but competed and provided cover for the defense against really tough opposition.
  
• Julian Green: He didn't do much, but that was a hell of a first touch.

Impossible to say, but I personally believe that the roster, with less than 5 changes, we saw yesterday would have qualified through the Hex.

[brewcity77]

USA, Mexico, and Canada joint bid will host the 2026 World Cup!

[ZiggysFryBoy]

USA, Mexico, and Canada joint bid will host the 2026 World Cup!

48 teams.  USA should qualify even if they weren't the host country.   

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

USA, Mexico, and Canada joint bid will host the 2026 World Cup!

Now Pulisic gets to play in at least one World Cup.

[jesmu84]

USA, Mexico, and Canada joint bid will host the 2026 World Cup!

Trump accomplishing what Obama never could.

[WarriorDad]

USA, Mexico, and Canada joint bid will host the 2026 World Cup!

NAFTA works!