Futbol Talk

[Its DJOver]

Both goals that Poland conceded were extremely unlucky, that's the way the soccer gods work sometime, but I had no problem with the ref allowing the second to stand.

[StillAWarrior]

https://i.imgur.com/V7OU0Ne.gifv

I enjoyed that.  The best thing is that there was that ever-so-brief moment where I thought, "hey, that seems a little exaggerated" before realizing the joke.

[Its DJOver]

Wind absolutely fell out of Egypt's sails after the first goal.  Really bad defending for both 2 and 3.  Russia on to the knockout rounds.  Only host not to make it is still RSA in 2010.

[StillAWarrior]

I saw a headline saying that the Saudi World Cup team had an "in-flight engine fire" and honestly thought for a moment that it was a figure of speech to describe their performance akin to "train wreck" or "dumpster fire." 

[brewcity77]

It was 1-0 at that point.  Poland didn't score until the end.

Not sure how that's relevant. Both teams scored one fair goal.

I get why the goal stood, but allowing a player to come on to the pitch behind the last defender as a ball is played back by the team in possession is inexcusable. The Hand of God was bad but things get missed in the run of play. This was a deliberate choice by the ref that dramatically altered the run of play.

And while the pass wasn't anything special, teams play soft balls back to the keeper in every game in the history of the sport. The only way that pass creates danger is if the ref waves a player on who's behind the last defender. No other green shirt would've had any remote chance at that ball.

[Its DJOver]

Not sure how that's relevant. Both teams scored one fair goal.

I get why the goal stood, but allowing a player to come on to the pitch behind the last defender as a ball is played back by the team in possession is inexcusable. The Hand of God was bad but things get missed in the run of play. This was a deliberate choice by the ref that dramatically altered the run of play.

And while the pass wasn't anything special, teams play soft balls back to the keeper in every game in the history of the sport. The only way that pass creates danger is if the ref waves a player on who's behind the last defender. No other green shirt would've had any remote chance at that ball.

When the ref first signals the player to come back on, the ball was just coming of the Senegalese players head.  The Polish player then hen time and space to take more than the one touch back to no mans land in between the last defender and the keeper.  It was one of the unluckiest goals I've seen in recent history, but the ref was not at fault.

[GGGG]

Not sure how that's relevant. Both teams scored one fair goal.

When you said "Poland and Senegal, 1-1" I thought you were stating it was 1-1 when it happened. 

[Pakuni]

When the ref first signals the player to come back on, the ball was just coming of the Senegalese players head.  The Polish player then hen time and space to take more than the one touch back to no mans land in between the last defender and the keeper.  It was one of the unluckiest goals I've seen in recent history, but the ref was not at fault.

Exactly. The Senegalese player was on the field at least 2-3 second before the Polish player chose to play the ball back, which means he was signaled back on to the field at least a second or two before then.
For Brew's contention that this was somehow a deliberate choice by the official to hold:
1. The official would have to have somehow known the Senegalese player's header would end up in the possession of a Polish player.
2.  That Polish player would then execute a sloppy pass back into his own end.
3. The nearest Polish player would lazily retreat to retrieve that pass because he was embarrassingly unaware of the circumstances around him, including the Senegalese player standing at midfield waiting to return to the game.

So, either that official was remarkably prescient - in which case he should give up the gig and become a day trader - or it was a combination of bad luck and bad play by Poland.

[GGGG]

Wind absolutely fell out of Egypt's sails after the first goal.  Really bad defending for both 2 and 3.  Russia on to the knockout rounds.  Only host not to make it is still RSA in 2010.

Well it's not official that Russia will be in the knockouts.  If Saudi Arabia beats Uruguay and Egypt, and Uruguay clobbers Russia enough to overcome the goal difference, Russia will be on the outside.

But that's not going to happen.

[StillAWarrior]

I get why the goal stood, but allowing a player to come on to the pitch behind the last defender as a ball is played back by the team in possession is inexcusable. The Hand of God was bad but things get missed in the run of play. This was a deliberate choice by the ref that dramatically altered the run of play.

I'm not an expert by any stretch...but looking at a replay of that goal, I think think your description is a little off.  When the Ref waved the Senegalese player onto the pitch (see 0:24 of that video), the ball was actually high in the air off a Polish header moving toward the Senegal defense.  At this point, the player had already been waved on, and was moving onto the field.  Then a Senegalese player headed the ball toward the Polish defense.  Then a Polish player, apparently not realizing that the Senegalese player had been waved on, played the ball back to his keeper.

You can see it unfold really well on the embedded Telemundo tweet on this page, but the timing of the ref waving the player on is easier to see on the link above.  The wide angle shot that shows both the Senegalese player and the action on the field begins at 0:37.  You can see that he starts onto the field while the ball is still going toward the Senegal defense (0:44).  He may even have gotten on-side, but it's hard to tell.*  At the moment the Pole plays the ball back (0:46) the Senegalese player was already 10 meters onto the field.

In short, the Senegalese player was waved onto the field before the ball was played back to the keeper.  In fact, when he was waved on, the ball was high in the air and closer to the Senegal penalty box than it was to midfield and moving toward the Senegal end.  I'm not really sure how the referee could possibly have anticipated what the next two touches would be when he waved the player onto the pitch.  In fact, seems like a good time to wave him on.  The next two touches, however, made it obviously an extremely unlucky time (for the Polish side).

*In any event, asking from my soccer ignorance, would off-sides even be an issue there since the Pole played it back?  I honestly don't know.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Well it's not official that Russia will be in the knockouts.  If Saudi Arabia beats Uruguay and Egypt, and Uruguay clobbers Russia enough to overcome the goal difference, Russia will be on the outside.

But that's not going to happen.

[Its DJOver]

I'm not an expert by any stretch...but looking at a replay of that goal, I think think your description is a little off.  When the Ref waved the Senegalese player onto the pitch (see 0:24 of that video), the ball was actually high in the air moving toward the Senegal defense off a Polish header.  At this point, the player has already been waved in, and is moving onto the field.  Then a Senegalese player headed the ball toward the Polish defense.  Then a Polish player, not realizing that the Senegalese player had been waved on, played the ball back to his keeper.

You can see it unfold really well on the embedded Telemundo tweet on this page, but the timing of the ref waving the player on is easier to see on the link above.  The wide angle shot that shows both the Senegalese player and the action on the field begins at 0:37.  You can see he starts onto the field while the ball is still going toward the Senegal defense (0:44).  He may even have gotten on-side, but it's hard to tell.  In any event, asking from my soccer ignorance, would off-sides even be an issue there since the Pole played it back?  I honestly don't know.

In short, the Senegalese player was waved onto the field before the ball was played back to the keeper.  In fact, when he was waved on, the ball was high in the air and closer to the Senegal penalty box than it was to midfield and moving toward the Senegal end.  I'm not really sure how the referee could possibly have anticipated what the next two touches would be when he waved the player onto the pitch.

Since the Polish player was the one to play the ball last, the Senegalese player can't be offsides by rule. Also you can't be offside if you start in your own half and since you need to be at midfield in order to re enter the field he couldn't have been offsides. Very unlucky for Poland, but no violation of a rule occured.

[mu03eng]

Since the Polish player was the one to play the ball last, the Senegalese player can't be offsides by rule. Also you can't be offside if you start in your own half and since you need to be at midfield in order to re enter the field he couldn't have been offsides. Very unlucky for Poland, but no violation of a rule occured.

This isn't technically correct. Yes, if the Polish player is the last to touch it nothing else matters. However, you don't have to re-enter AT the midfield line, just near it. In fact, in the video the player re-enters in the Senegalese offensive half of the field AND it appears he's behind the 2nd to last Polish player which puts him in an offside position(but since the other conditions for an offside call don't exist it isn't called). Further because he is off the pitch initially at that point he's not in an offside position(have to be inside the touchlines to be in an offside position) so even if a Senegalese played it forward with him off the field but with the ball in the air he came on to the field he wouldn't be called for offside either.

To that last point, a player can step off the pitch at the end line to remove himself from an offside position so that his team can continue to attack the goal. It's a bit of a grey area because you require the officials permission to re-enter the field but you don't see people stepping out all that frequently and even less where the player re-enters in an advantageous position without the official inviting them back on.

And not to get highly technical but offsides is American Football, offside is soccer.

[Its DJOver]

This isn't technically correct. Yes, if the Polish player is the last to touch it nothing else matters. However, you don't have to re-enter AT the midfield line, just near it. In fact, in the video the player re-enters in the Senegalese offensive half of the field AND it appears he's behind the 2nd to last Polish player which puts him in an offside position(but since the other conditions for an offside call don't exist it isn't called). Further because he is off the pitch initially at that point he's not in an offside position(have to be inside the touchlines to be in an offside position) so even if a Senegalese played it forward with him off the field but with the ball in the air he came on to the field he wouldn't be called for offside either.

To that last point, a player can step off the pitch at the end line to remove himself from an offside position so that his team can continue to attack the goal. It's a bit of a grey area because you require the officials permission to re-enter the field but you don't see people stepping out all that frequently and even less where the player re-enters in an advantageous position without the official inviting them back on.

And not to get highly technical but offsides is American Football, offside is soccer.

It doesn't matter when he was off the field because he re-entered before the ball was played.

You can only enter the field from anywhere if there is a stoppage in play.  Since the play was live you are required to re-enter midfield because you need to confirm with the fourth official that you are okay to re-enter play (the two or so feet into the attacking half is a grey area, kinda how throw ins and free kicks don't have to be taken on the exact spot that the ball left play/ foul occurred).  This is where Poland may have a case, because the fourth official does not appear to interact with the player because he if checking with the other player that appears to be coming on as a sub.  The replay doesn't show if the injured played checked in with the fourth official before the fourth official started to ready the sub.  If he did not check in with the official he should not have been allowed to re-enter play.  This rule is often ignored because refs want to allow the teams to return to full strength as fast as possible, it is also ignored on most muscle injuries because the main priority of those checks is to confirm that there is no blood on the uniform. 

[jesmu84]

Rooney to DCU. Still rumors of the Fire wanting Torres.

Someone please tell me how this league is supposed to be legit and not a retirement league.

[GGGG]

Rooney to DCU. Still rumors of the Fire wanting Torres.

Someone please tell me how this league is supposed to be legit and not a retirement league.

Because there are leagues all around the world that take superstars past their prime. Sometimes it works out well for all parties too.

[mu03eng]

Rooney to DCU. Still rumors of the Fire wanting Torres.

Someone please tell me how this league is supposed to be legit and not a retirement league.

Because Rooney puts butts in seats which turns into revenue which then can be turned into contracts for up and coming players and development infrastructure.

I'd be with you if they had signed 12 Rooney's to their roster, but having some well known talent isn't a bad thing.

[Its DJOver]

Because Rooney puts butts in seats which turns into revenue which then can be turned into contracts for up and coming players and development infrastructure.

I'd be with you if they had signed 12 Rooney's to their roster, but having some well known talent isn't a bad thing.

Especially with DC's on-field struggles.  They've pretty much lived at the bottom of the table for two years now.  Franchise needs a little excitement.

[jesmu84]

Because Rooney puts butts in seats which turns into revenue which then can be turned into contracts for up and coming players and development infrastructure.

I'd be with you if they had signed 12 Rooney's to their roster, but having some well known talent isn't a bad thing.

Ug. I guess. Maybe I'm just cynical as a long-time Fire fan.

IMO, I wish my supported organization would try and actually create long-term success through solid academy development and 2nd division team vs short-term gains for a "name". Examples: FC Dallas, NYRB, RSL

[Its DJOver]

Ug. I guess. Maybe I'm just cynical as a long-time Fire fan.

IMO, I wish my supported organization would try and actually create long-term success through solid academy development and 2nd division team vs short-term gains for a "name". Examples: FC Dallas, NYRB, RSL

I mentioned this before, but I truly believe that the increase in acquisition of "name" players is because of expansion.  In 2008 there were 14 MLS teams, and the level of competition was fairly high.  There are currently 23 teams, with plans to go to as many as 28.  That means in a decade the academies that produce the home grown players would have needed to double their output, and that is simply not possible in a time frame that short.  Once these expansion teams have academies that are more established, the overall level of competition will rise and these more washed up European players won't be able to cut it. 

You're already seeing the MLS take itself more seriously by considering dropping the all-star game, which creates an unnecessary break in the schedule in order to bring in a European club playing its preseason games.  The popularity of the sport in this country has surpassed the need to do that.  The more the MLS can treat itself like a real league, the better it will be in the long run.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

28 is too much. Keep it at 22 max and go to a promotion/relegation system to promote better competition.

[Its DJOver]

Rooney to DCU. Still rumors of the Fire wanting Torres.

Someone please tell me how this league is supposed to be legit and not a retirement league.

These are now officially dead.  Torres heading to Japan.

I always thought Ronaldo would retire at Real, but I guess the whole Neymar saga last year truly changes everything.

[JWags85]

These are now officially dead.  Torres heading to Japan.

I always thought Ronaldo would retire at Real, but I guess the whole Neymar saga last year truly changes everything.

Torres being 34 makes me feel ancient.  Still my second favorite Red ever after Owen, but Salah making a hard push if he sticks around a few years.

I feel fairly confident that Ronaldo pulls a Zlatan and comes to the MLS, but not for maybe 4-5 years.  In impact I think it would be more like Beckham's Galaxy move.  He's made mention of it in the past, and I think for such a global icon, it makes sense once his elite European days are past.

[Pakuni]

28 is too much. Keep it at 22 max and go to a promotion/relegation system to promote better competition.

Promotion/relegation sounds great, but that ship has long since sailed. What current owner is going to willingly go along with a system that could deprive them of millions in revenue if their team has a poor year?

[Pakuni]

I feel fairly confident that Ronaldo pulls a Zlatan and comes to the MLS, but not for maybe 4-5 years.  In impact I think it would be more like Beckham's Galaxy move.  He's made mention of it in the past, and I think for such a global icon, it makes sense once his elite European days are past.

But first, a stop in Italy.

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