Futbol Talk

[BM1090]

I follow Ted on twitter. He does distribute these player maps from time to time, and it's pretty interesting.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

After watching Fulham play the other day why does Tim Ream not get more caps for the US?

He's so solid for Fulham who are probably the best team in the championship.

[Cooby Snacks]

That was some bullsh1t from Ramos.

Also from Karius.

What a strange game.

[HouWarrior]

That was some bullsh1t from Ramos.

Also from Karius.

What a strange game.

Agreed. I have been a Real Fan since I lived in Madrid, for a year, in '77-78.

Thinking hard , I am sure I never saw the Benzema "interception/goal" ever before in a Champ league game...cool but weird.

The Bale Bicycle kick for RM goal two was as pretty as Ronaldo's of a few weeks ago.

To me Club soccer is the best quality play in the world (yes significantly better than World Cup) with Premier boasting best clubs, top to bottom ... but the top 3-4 of La Liga is always also right there. Sorry ....but MLS is a second division league, at best.

Champions league gathers the best clubs. That my RM has dominated this series lately is cake icing. !Yo Soy de Real Para Siempre!

[Its DJOver]

Karius should be no where near a champions league final, although Mignolet is no better.  It'll be interesting to see what Liverpool do in this transfer window.  Both Alisson and Donnarumma will cost upwards of 80 mil, which I don't think they'll pay.  The Coutinho money is pretty much all gone with Fabinho signing.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Buffon end up there.  He wants to keep playing, but will only go somewhere where he can play in the Champions league.  There's not too many Champions League clubs where he can walk in the door and be the immediate number 1.  If he doesn't go to PSG, don't be surprised if he's at Anfield next year.

[brewcity77]

Just watched the USA friendly with Bolivia. While it was probably a B/C side for Bolivia, it was fun to watch the future and fun to watch us look good. A few players stood out:

• Josh Sargent: He was active, strong, unselfish, and his goal was excellent. What made it impressive was not just the individual talent to take it out of the air, control, and beat the goalie 1v1, but it was also against Bolivia's first choice keeper. If that's a full international, there's no reason it plays out any different. He continues to impress at every level.
  
• Tim Weah: Quick, active, full of energy. I love having wingers with a nose for goal. I feel like we haven't had that type of play since Dempsey and Donovan played the 7/8 for us earlier in their careers.
  
• Antonee Robinson: I'm hesitant to get excited about LB debuts because so many promising starts have gone awry, but he was excellent. His pace and delivery up the left was so good, and not just on his assist to Weah. Defensively, while he was beat a few times, he showed both willingness to defend and the pace to make up for his mistakes. Him and Yedlin at the fullbacks could grow into quite the tandem.
  
• Keaton Parks: What stood out was how he didn't look 6'4" when he was on the run. He had good instincts to know when to drive up the middle, drift outside for a through ball, or get back. But doing it, he didn't have the awkwardness that many young lanky players have. He looked like he belonged and was natural in his body.
  
• Weston McKinney: Neither of the central defenders had much to do because McKinney did well marshaling the midfield and breaking up plays. He didn't do a ton going forward, but had some bright moments and made the workload light on the guys behind him.

[Its DJOver]

Just watched the USA friendly with Bolivia. While it was probably a B/C side for Bolivia, it was fun to watch the future and fun to watch us look good. A few players stood out:

• Josh Sargent: He was active, strong, unselfish, and his goal was excellent. What made it impressive was not just the individual talent to take it out of the air, control, and beat the goalie 1v1, but it was also against Bolivia's first choice keeper. If that's a full international, there's no reason it plays out any different. He continues to impress at every level.
  
• Tim Weah: Quick, active, full of energy. I love having wingers with a nose for goal. I feel like we haven't had that type of play since Dempsey and Donovan played the 7/8 for us earlier in their careers.
  
• Antonee Robinson: I'm hesitant to get excited about LB debuts because so many promising starts have gone awry, but he was excellent. His pace and delivery up the left was so good, and not just on his assist to Weah. Defensively, while he was beat a few times, he showed both willingness to defend and the pace to make up for his mistakes. Him and Yedlin at the fullbacks could grow into quite the tandem.
  
• Keaton Parks: What stood out was how he didn't look 6'4" when he was on the run. He had good instincts to know when to drive up the middle, drift outside for a through ball, or get back. But doing it, he didn't have the awkwardness that many young lanky players have. He looked like he belonged and was natural in his body.
  
• Weston McKinney: Neither of the central defenders had much to do because McKinney did well marshaling the midfield and breaking up plays. He didn't do a ton going forward, but had some bright moments and made the workload light on the guys behind him.

I thought McKinney was the best player out there last night.  Holding mid is the most important/least appreciated position in the sport IMO. 

Weah and Sargent ooze potential, but will need to get 1st team experience at club level.  Getting the actual game time is the difference between developing into a Pulisic or a Green (Green is only 22 so he can still get there, but he needs to get back into the top tier Bundesliga). 

Defense looked good, but I'm holding judgement until I see some of them go up against Ireland and France.

Overall, I was impressed by the kids, but most of them are too young to anoint the next savior.  World Cup in Qatar is only 1637 days away.

[mu03eng]

https://www.theringer.com/2018/6/5/17428184/2018-world-cup-us-soccer-inside-story-jurgen-klinsmann-sunil-gulati-bruce-arena

Great article breaking down what's gone wrong with US soccer in the last 7 years.

[Its DJOver]

https://www.theringer.com/2018/6/5/17428184/2018-world-cup-us-soccer-inside-story-jurgen-klinsmann-sunil-gulati-bruce-arena

Great article breaking down what's gone wrong with US soccer in the last 7 years.

Very good timeline of the events that happened.  I would have fired Klinsmann after the CONCACAF Cup.  Bottom line is that not enough quality players moved up the ranks between the 2014 World Cup and 2018 qualifying.  That's why going extreme youth for these friendlies is not only the right choice, but the only one.  Don't expect the GM or Head Coach vacancies to be filled until of the World Cup.

[jesmu84]

I don't care if veterans feelings were hurt cause klins called in younger guys. Work hard, be better and you'll make the team.

MLS is absolutely a lesser league. Why are they still trying to give massive contracts and control to corpses like Drogba and Torres? It's stuff like that that undermines their stated place in the world.

Other than those 2 topics, story was solid

[Its DJOver]

Drogba hasn't played in the MLS in over a year, and the Torres to MLS talk is nonsense.  You take those players because they can help your image.  Rooney to DC would be a good signing because it'll sell the jerseys and he's still got a few years left in him.  I think all the Americans coming back to the MLS was a mistake unless you can't break into the first team abroad (see Zack Steffen). 

MLS is a lesser league but an all MLS team is still good enough to make the World Cup.  The majority of the Costa Rico, Mexico and Panama rosters are MLS or Liga MX players.

[mu03eng]

The other thing is that some of the European leagues, especially EPL really grind players. I think the need to play in the top leagues is nice in concept but the benefit in my opinion is largely negated by the impact of the body and mental health of some of these players. If the players can go get big dollars in the foreign leagues (see Christian Pulisic) by all means, but if not MLS is just fine for developing players.

[jesmu84]

Drogba hasn't played in the MLS in over a year, and the Torres to MLS talk is nonsense.  You take those players because they can help your image.  Rooney to DC would be a good signing because it'll sell the jerseys and he's still got a few years left in him.  I think all the Americans coming back to the MLS was a mistake unless you can't break into the first team abroad (see Zack Steffen). 

MLS is a lesser league but an all MLS team is still good enough to make the World Cup.  The majority of the Costa Rico, Mexico and Panama rosters are MLS or Liga MX players.

Okay. If you say so. Throw out Drogba and Torres.

You've still got schweinsteiger, zlatan, Rooney.

Again, retirement paradise. Instead of focusing on development of the whole.

[GGGG]

Okay. If you say so. Throw out Drogba and Torres.

You've still got schweinsteiger, zlatan, Rooney.

Again, retirement paradise. Instead of focusing on development of the whole.

It can be both.

[brewcity77]

https://www.theringer.com/2018/6/5/17428184/2018-world-cup-us-soccer-inside-story-jurgen-klinsmann-sunil-gulati-bruce-arena

Great article breaking down what's gone wrong with US soccer in the last 7 years.

Excellent read. Dense but thorough. My only hope, and Sarachan's method of blooding the kids should help, is that we basically raze it all and start from the ground up.

I don't care if veterans feelings were hurt cause klins called in younger guys. Work hard, be better and you'll make the team.

MLS is absolutely a lesser league. Why are they still trying to give massive contracts and control to corpses like Drogba and Torres? It's stuff like that that undermines their stated place in the world.

Other than those 2 topics, story was solid

Sorry, but there's no way Julian Green earned his spot over Landon Donovan. Jurgen brought in new players he was comfortable with. Some, like John Brooks and Fabian Johnson, were solid. Some, like Timmy Chandler and Julian Green, simply weren't up to the task. Green might still get there, but he did not deserve the nod in 2014.

MLS is a second tier league, but sending 19 players to the 2018 World Cup when the domestic nation isn't going is solid. One of the drawbacks to growing a league is balancing growing talent with selling tickets. Names draw fans. MLS has been fantastic for the improvement of international players. The real problem with MLS is that it's been as good or better for other CONCACAF nations' players. Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, T&T, and others have reaped the benefits while our own NT is in the limbo of indecision between domestic and overseas leagues.

[brewcity77]

MLS is probably a top-10 or so league in the world. Somewhere in the 8-12 range depending on year. My issue with it is that it hasn't been dedicated to developing the USMNT. When you look at Germany, there was a concerted effort to develop players for Die Mannschaft. Our own league has been focused on its own marketing, which led to a focus on foreign stars (most can still play, but don't help our NT) or bringing back big name Americans that have the ability to play elsewhere.

I would rather see a youth focused league that makes its money not at the gate, but in developing and selling its domestic players overseas. But as long as MLS is a business first, the development of USMNT players will always be a tertiary goal.

[jesmu84]

Excellent read. Dense but thorough. My only hope, and Sarachan's method of blooding the kids should help, is that we basically raze it all and start from the ground up.

Sorry, but there's no way Julian Green earned his spot over Landon Donovan. Jurgen brought in new players he was comfortable with. Some, like John Brooks and Fabian Johnson, were solid. Some, like Timmy Chandler and Julian Green, simply weren't up to the task. Green might still get there, but he did not deserve the nod in 2014.

MLS is a second tier league, but sending 19 players to the 2018 World Cup when the domestic nation isn't going is solid. One of the drawbacks to growing a league is balancing growing talent with selling tickets. Names draw fans. MLS has been fantastic for the improvement of international players. The real problem with MLS is that it's been as good or better for other CONCACAF nations' players. Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, T&T, and others have reaped the benefits while our own NT is in the limbo of indecision between domestic and overseas leagues.

That's not exactly what I was referring to. I won't disagree that Green should not have been taken over Donovan. The point in the article said the established players saw the new guys as a threat to their spot on the team. I think that's totally valid and not a criticism of a coach. The young and new should absolutely push the older for roster spots. On any team. In any sport.

My criticism of MLS is both paying too much for over the hill international players. And, as you said, fighting with the national team.

[Its DJOver]

Okay. If you say so. Throw out Drogba and Torres.

You've still got schweinsteiger, zlatan, Rooney.

Again, retirement paradise. Instead of focusing on development of the whole.

Don't get me wrong, I think dumping that money into the clubs respective academies is a better move long term, but you have to sell jersey's and tickets.  You don't sign a 36 year old coming off a torn ACL unless its a great PR move (which Zlatan is). 

MLS is probably a top-10 or so league in the world. Somewhere in the 8-12 range depending on year. My issue with it is that it hasn't been dedicated to developing the USMNT. When you look at Germany, there was a concerted effort to develop players for Die Mannschaft. Our own league has been focused on its own marketing, which led to a focus on foreign stars (most can still play, but don't help our NT) or bringing back big name Americans that have the ability to play elsewhere.

I would rather see a youth focused league that makes its money not at the gate, but in developing and selling its domestic players overseas. But as long as MLS is a business first, the development of USMNT players will always be a tertiary goal.

This is pretty spot on.  The reason that I don't have a problem with bringing in more aging European vets is because of the rapid expansion that the MLS is currently going through.  It's almost growing too fast where with all the new roster spots being opened up the talent can't keep up.  This is why I had no problem with NYCFC bringing in Pirlo and Villa, or Orlando bring in Kaka.  Once the expansion stops, I'm hoping they stop at 26, I think the amount of ageing superstars will decrease. 

[GGGG]

Regarding the relative strength of MLS, the European leagues are quite top heavy.  You have four very elite leagues (Spain, Germany, England, Italy), a couple leagues that have a couple decent teams at the top, but a bunch of crap below (France, Portugal, Russia), and a bunch of leagues that just really aren't that good.

Put it another way, there are more players from MLS playing in the World Cup this year than play in Belgium's national league - and Belgium made the WC and the US didn't.  I think only one player on Belgium's national team plays in Belgium.  And that league is rated the 9th best in Europe.

[Golden Avalanche]

Julian Green scored on his debut in the World Cup. That alone validates his selection to the 2014 team. He was brought to be a spark and he produced a spark. Job fulfilled.

Donovan going to Brasil would have changed absolutely nothing of what transpired down there.

[Golden Avalanche]

Regarding the relative strength of MLS, the European leagues are quite top heavy.  You have four very elite leagues (Spain, Germany, England, Italy), a couple leagues that have a couple decent teams at the top, but a bunch of crap below (France, Portugal, Russia), and a bunch of leagues that just really aren't that good.

Put it another way, there are more players from MLS playing in the World Cup this year than play in Belgium's national league - and Belgium made the WC and the US didn't.  I think only one player on Belgium's national team plays in Belgium.  And that league is rated the 9th best in Europe.

Serie A hasn't been elite for most of the last decade. England is elite in terms of marketing but the quality of play is mediocre across the board. And to call Ligue Une a crap league is to not understand the level of talent the league has provided to the countries that you consider elite.

Also, Belgium is an export country. Always has been. It's the middle man for African players to gain entry into Europe and then they move on to other countries. Some of the clubs are direct feeders into clubs in England and France.

[mu03eng]

Julian Green scored on his debut in the World Cup. That alone validates his selection to the 2014 team. He was brought to be a spark and he produced a spark. Job fulfilled.

Donovan going to Brasil would have changed absolutely nothing of what transpired down there.

Cause Donovan also misses Wando's absolute sitter? Please

[jutaw22mu]

Donovan had no place on that team, and I agree, his presence would not have changed anything for the better.  Why bring a guy to be the leader when his heart has never really been in it? 

Still can't believe we are two weeks away from a World Cup without the US.  So disappointing.  But then again, Italy, Netherlands and Chile all must be feeling the same way.

[Its DJOver]

Serie A hasn't been elite for most of the last decade. England is elite in terms of marketing but the quality of play is mediocre across the board. And to call Ligue Une a crap league is to not understand the level of talent the league has provided to the countries that you consider elite.

Also, Belgium is an export country. Always has been. It's the middle man for African players to gain entry into Europe and then they move on to other countries. Some of the clubs are direct feeders into clubs in England and France.

Juve has made 2 champions league finals in the last 5 years.  Agree that Serie A has been below the other top four, but it's still the 4th best league in the world.  Throw in that both Milan clubs recently had big money takeovers and they're both on the rise. 

You make a great point about the so called "lesser leagues".  Stade Rennes (finished 5th in League 1) produced Ousmane Dembele who sold for 105 mil last summer. Genk (finished 4th in the Belgium first division) produced Kevin De Bruyne, who IMO should have won player of the year in the prem this year.  Who has been the highest selling American in Europe over the last 5 years? Yedlin at 5 mil?  Pulisic could sell for 50+ mil, but he needs to stay at Dortmund and continue to develop.

Also there is no way that England is "mediocre" across the board.

[StillAWarrior]

Still can't believe we are two weeks away from a World Cup without the US.  So disappointing.  But then again, Italy, Netherlands and Chile all must be feeling the same way.

Not to mention Fox.