MUScoop

I agree with this ... you should be held responsible for your statements.

-----------------------

Below is the statement and the list of Harvard organizations saying it is Israel's fault, not Hamas

Bill Ackman is a billionaire hedge fund manager, a Harvard grad, and a gigantic supporter (donor) of the school.

He just tweeted this about the statement and the organizations that supported it.


https://x.com/BillAckman/status/1711788747086233661?s=20

I have been asked by a number of  CEOs if @harvard would release a list of the members of each of the Harvard organizations that have issued the letter assigning sole responsibility for Hamas' heinous acts to Israel, so as to insure that none of us inadvertently hire any of their members.

If, in fact, their members support the letter they have released, the names of the signatories should be made public so their views are publicly known.

One should not be able to hide behind a corporate shield when issuing statements supporting the actions of terrorists, who, we now learn, have beheaded babies, among other inconceivably despicable acts.

Here is the statement
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7886yEbsAAVuNE?format=jpg&name=medium)

Here is the list of organizations that supported the statement
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F788605bIAAaYUX?format=jpg&name=medium)

Boston Herald

Harvard students called 'morally repugnant' for blaming Israel for Hamas attacks; college president responds today
https://www.bostonherald.com/2023/10/09/harvard-students-called-morally-repugnant-for-blaming-israel-for-attacks/

Harvard students who authored a letter blaming Israel for the Hamas terror attacks are being ridiculed as "intellectually weak and morally repugnant."

U.S. Rep. Seth Moulton, D-Salem, and former Harvard president Larry Summers are lining up to call out the Cambridge university students — and the "leadership" remaining silent.

UPDATE: Harvard's President Claudine Gay responded today (Tuesday, 10/10), condemning "the terrorist atrocities perpetrated by Hamas." And, in a direct hit at students blaming Israel for the terror attack, Gay adds: "While our students have the right to speak for themselves, no student group — not even 30 student groups — speaks for Harvard University or its leadership."

Larry Summers 'Sickened' by Harvard's Silence Over Attack on Israel
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-09/israel-hamas-war-larry-summers-is-sickened-by-harvard-s-silence

Lawrence Summers, the former president of Harvard University, said he was "sickened" by the institution's lack of response after some student groups blamed Israel for Hamas' attack, which has killed more than 900 Israelis, most of them civilians.

"The silence from Harvard's leadership, so far, coupled with a vocal and widely reported student groups' statement blaming Israel solely, has allowed Harvard to appear at best neutral towards acts of terror against the Jewish state of Israel," Summers said on X, formerly known as Twitter.

Summers Responded two hours ago

https://x.com/LHSummers/status/1711761982469107955?s=20
The delayed @Harvard leadership statement fails to meet the needs of the moment. Why can't we find anything approaching the moral clarity of Harvard statements after George Floyd's death or Russia's invasion of Ukraine when terrorists kill, rape and take hostage hundreds of Israelis attending a music festival?

--------

Here are the Harvard statements

https://www.harvard.edu/president/news/2023/war-in-the-middle-east/?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=hu-twitter-general&utm_medium=social

A Statement from President Claudine Gay
October 10, 2023

As the events of recent days continue to reverberate, let there be no doubt that I condemn the terrorist atrocities perpetrated by Hamas. Such inhumanity is abhorrent, whatever one's individual views of the origins of longstanding conflicts in the region.

Let me also state, on this matter as on others, that while our students have the right to speak for themselves, no student group — not even 30 student groups — speaks for Harvard University or its leadership.

We will all be well served in such a difficult moment by rhetoric that aims to illuminate and not inflame. And I appeal to all of us in this community of learning to keep this in mind as our conversations continue.

Claudine Gay
President, Harvard University


A Statement from Harvard University Leadership
October, 9, 2023
Dear Members of the Harvard Community,

We write to you today heartbroken by the death and destruction unleashed by the attack by Hamas that targeted citizens in Israel this weekend, and by the war in Israel and Gaza now under way.

The violence hits all too close to home for many at Harvard. Some members of our community have lost family members and friends; some have been unable to reach loved ones. And, even for people at Harvard who have not been affected directly by the fighting, there are feelings of fear, sadness, anger, and more that create a heavy burden. We have heard from many students, faculty, and staff about the emotional toll that these events are taking.

Across Harvard, we will continue providing as much support to our students and colleagues as possible. Our Schools either have shared or will soon share messages regarding available resources.

We have also heard an interest from many in understanding more clearly what has been happening in Israel and Gaza. Even as we attend immediately to the needs of our community members, we can take steps as an academic community to deepen our knowledge of the unfolding events and their broader implications for the region and the world. We expect there will be many such opportunities in the coming days and weeks.

We have no illusion that Harvard alone can readily bridge the widely different views of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but we are hopeful that, as a community devoted to learning, we can take steps that will draw on our common humanity and shared values in order to modulate rather than amplify the deep-seated divisions and animosities so distressingly evident in the wider world. Especially at such a time, we want to emphasize our commitment to fostering an environment of dialogue and empathy, appealing to one another's thoughtfulness and goodwill in a time of unimaginable loss and sorrow.

As many colleagues, classmates, and friends deal with pain and deep concern about the events in Israel and Gaza, we must all remember that we are one Harvard community, drawn together by a shared passion for learning, discovery, and the pursuit of truth in all its complexity, and held together by a commitment to mutual respect and support. At this moment of challenge, let us embody the care and compassion the world needs now.

Sincerely,

Claudine Gay
President, Harvard University

Alan M. Garber
Provost, Harvard University

Meredith Weenick
Executive Vice President, Harvard University

Tomiko Brown-Nagin
Dean, Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study

Nancy Coleman
Dean, Division of Continuing Education and University Extension

George Q. Daley
Dean, Harvard Medical School

Srikant Datar
Dean, Harvard Business School

Emma Dench
Dean, Harvard Kenneth C. Griffin Graduate School of Arts and Sciences

Douglas W. Elmendorf
Dean, Harvard Kennedy School of Government

William V. Giannobile
Dean, Harvard School of Dental Medicine

Hopi E. Hoekstra
Dean, Faculty of Arts and Sciences

David F. Holland
Interim Dean, Harvard Divinity School

Rakesh Khurana
Dean, Harvard College

Jane J. Kim
Interim Dean, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

Bridget Terry Long
Dean, Harvard Graduate School of Education

John F. Manning
Dean, Harvard Law School

Michael D. Smith
Interim Dean, Harvard John A. Paulson School of Engineering and Applied Sciences

Sarah M. Whiting
Dean, Graduate School of Design

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 10, 2023, 12:29:26 PM
I agree with this ... you should be held responsible for your statements.

-----------------------

Below is the statement and the list of Harvard organizations saying it is Israel's fault, not Hamas

Bill Ackman is a billionaire hedge fund manager, a Harvard grad, and a gigantic supporter (donor) of the school.

He just tweeted this about the statement and the organizations that supported it.


https://x.com/BillAckman/status/1711788747086233661?s=20

I have been asked by a number of  CEOs if @harvard would release a list of the members of each of the Harvard organizations that have issued the letter assigning sole responsibility for Hamas' heinous acts to Israel, so as to insure that none of us inadvertently hire any of their members.

That seems like a complete overreaction and possibly illegal.

Never thought the student body at Harvard was made up of the best and the brightest. US News rankin's are skewed, hey?

This just in a bunch of Arab groups are looking at it from the perspective of defending their people from inhumane laws and conditions. I mean especially the Palestinian groups don't owe anyone a "I'm sorry" when from their perspective it's fighting back.

When England had an ethnic apartheid in Northern Ireland (not even remotely on this level) nobody thought it was wrong when Irish groups blamed England for the IRA bombings. Very similar situation with a religion/people that're considered less like us so it's easier to be outraged.

I'm with Israel but asking a group of Palestinians to not say "you're about to blow our families and ancestral homes to hell because of the actions of extremists, go you!" Is ridiculous. That said yes they could say it better and show sympathy for the Israeli citizens facing this horrific situation as well.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 10, 2023, 12:55:46 PM
This just in a bunch of Arab groups are looking at it from the perspective of defending their people from inhumane laws and conditions. I mean especially the Palestinian groups don't owe anyone a "I'm sorry" when from their perspective it's fighting back.

When England had an ethnic apartheid in Northern Ireland (not even remotely on this level) nobody thought it was wrong when Irish groups blamed England for the IRA bombings. Very similar situation with a religion/people that're considered less like us so it's easier to be outraged.

I'm with Israel but asking a group of Palestinians to not say "you're about to blow our families and ancestral homes to hell because of the actions of extremists, go you!" Is ridiculous. That said yes they could say it better and show sympathy for the Israeli citizens facing this horrific situation as well.

One of those groups was a Jewish group. A lot of younger Jews are not fond of how their government has treated the Palestinian issue.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 10, 2023, 12:29:26 PM
I agree with this ... you should be held responsible for your statements.

-----------------------

Below is the statement and the list of Harvard organizations saying it is Israel's fault, not Hamas

Bill Ackman is a billionaire hedge fund manager, a Harvard grad, and a gigantic supporter (donor) of the school.

He just tweeted this about the statement and the organizations that supported it.


https://x.com/BillAckman/status/1711788747086233661?s=20

I have been asked by a number of  CEOs if @harvard would release a list of the members of each of the Harvard organizations that have issued the letter assigning sole responsibility for Hamas' heinous acts to Israel, so as to insure that none of us inadvertently hire any of their members.

If, in fact, their members support the letter they have released, the names of the signatories should be made public so their views are publicly known.

One should not be able to hide behind a corporate shield when issuing statements supporting the actions of terrorists, who, we now learn, have beheaded babies, among other inconceivably despicable acts.

Here is the statement
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7886yEbsAAVuNE?format=jpg&name=medium)

Here is the list of organizations that supported the statement
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F788605bIAAaYUX?format=jpg&name=medium)

Cancel culture strikes again.
SMDH

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 10, 2023, 12:29:26 PM
I agree with this ... you should be held responsible for your statements.

-----------------------

Below is the statement and the list of Harvard organizations saying it is Israel's fault, not Hamas

Bill Ackman is a billionaire hedge fund manager, a Harvard grad, and a gigantic supporter (donor) of the school.

He just tweeted this about the statement and the organizations that supported it.


https://x.com/BillAckman/status/1711788747086233661?s=20

I have been asked by a number of  CEOs if @harvard would release a list of the members of each of the Harvard organizations that have issued the letter assigning sole responsibility for Hamas' heinous acts to Israel, so as to insure that none of us inadvertently hire any of their members.

If, in fact, their members support the letter they have released, the names of the signatories should be made public so their views are publicly known.

One should not be able to hide behind a corporate shield when issuing statements supporting the actions of terrorists, who, we now learn, have beheaded babies, among other inconceivably despicable acts.

Here is the statement
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7886yEbsAAVuNE?format=jpg&name=medium)

Here is the list of organizations that supported the statement
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F788605bIAAaYUX?format=jpg&name=medium)

🤔

Backlash is coming like the first backlash
Backlash has spoken like the first bird
Praise for the warning; Crimson is doomed, hey?
Praise for the backlash 'gainst the Hahvahd turd.

I remember the good old days in 1776 when we were the terrorists.

Quote from: MU82 on October 10, 2023, 02:24:09 PM
Backlash is coming like the first backlash
Backlash has spoken like the first bird
Praise for the warning; Crimson is doomed, hey?
Praise for the backlash 'gainst the Hahvahd turd.

Chat GPT?

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 10, 2023, 12:55:46 PM
I'm with Israel but asking a group of Palestinians to not say "you're about to blow our families and ancestral homes to hell because of the actions of extremists, go you!" Is ridiculous. That said yes they could say it better and show sympathy for the Israeli citizens facing this horrific situation as well.

Thats the issue.  Blindly ignoring what innocent Israelis went through and essentially giving a pass to gut turning butchery and barbarism cause they feel the fault lies with Israel policy.  And thats what Ackman has an issue with.

Quote from: forgetful on October 10, 2023, 01:06:01 PM
One of those groups was a Jewish group. A lot of younger Jews are not fond of how their government has treated the Palestinian issue.

Many younger Jews are also not all observant, purely "culturally Jewish", and have no tie to Israel or the Jewish people that live there.  I would be very willing to be the Jewish students in that group don't refer to Israel as "we" or "our" in any way nor identify with Israeli citizens.  I know some fascinating first hand stories of 1st or 2nd generation Israeli-American teens that don't at all get along with Jewish teens in the NY/NJ towns where they grow up cause the Americans (and I'm sure their parents) don't like Israel and don't see themselves as alike.  And even more interesting, by and large these are all mostly secular Jews.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 10, 2023, 12:47:08 PM
That seems like a complete overreaction and possibly illegal.

Its not really an overreaction for Ackman, he's a notoriously dramatic and public expressing sort of person.

But what I find kind of amusing, its 2023, any notable company recruiting from Harvard has no problem getting access to the backgrounds of its applicants, so it shouldn't be hard to find a student that graduated from Harvard in 2024-2026 or so and was a member of one of these clubs and quietly avoid them in professional consideration

Quote from: JWags85 on October 10, 2023, 04:02:39 PM

Many younger Jews are also not all observant, purely "culturally Jewish", and have no tie to Israel or the Jewish people that live there.  I would be very willing to be the Jewish students in that group don't refer to Israel as "we" or "our" in any way nor identify with Israeli citizens.  I know some fascinating first hand stories of 1st or 2nd generation Israeli-American teens that don't at all get along with Jewish teens in the NY/NJ towns where they grow up cause the Americans (and I'm sure their parents) don't like Israel and don't see themselves as alike.  And even more interesting, by and large these are all mostly secular Jews.

You are not wrong at all. But I do know a lot of young observant Jews, and even young Israeli citizens that hold similar views as those signed on by those organizations (also this organization is part of their divinity school, so highly likely they are observant).

That said. The statement was vehemently tone deaf, unnecessary, and inappropriate. They can have issues with Israeli policies, and actions over the years, but now was not the time for such a formal statement.

Now was a time to condemn a terrorist action by Hamas. To grieve the loss of innocent life in Israel, and to offer heartfelt support for those that lost loved ones.

If they wanted to bring some attention to the Palestinian people. They could remind the world that Hamas is not Palestine, nor do they represent the Palestinians. And ask the world to also keep in their hearts and minds the innocent Palestinians that will also suffer because of these horrific actions, and to ask Israel to use restraint and find a way to bring Hamas to justice without the loss of innocent life.

And don't forget about these upstanding people...what a shocker


https://www.newsweek.com/black-lives-matter-praises-hamas-sparks-backlash-1833630


Fly that flag high and proud

Quote from: JWags85 on October 10, 2023, 04:02:39 PM
But what I find kind of amusing, its 2023, any notable company recruiting from Harvard has no problem getting access to the backgrounds of its applicants, so it shouldn't be hard to find a student that graduated from Harvard in 2024-2026 or so and was a member of one of these clubs and quietly avoid them in professional consideration

I disagree with the statement that was issued.

But how exactly would an employer know if a candidate supported this statement? To my knowledge, it was signed by the student organization, not by individual members of said organization. It is very possible and likely that some members of these student organizations also disagree with the statement. Guilty by association??

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 10, 2023, 12:29:26 PM
I agree with this ... you should be held responsible for your statements.

-----------------------

Below is the statement and the list of Harvard organizations saying it is Israel's fault, not Hamas

Bill Ackman is a billionaire hedge fund manager, a Harvard grad, and a gigantic supporter (donor) of the school.

He just tweeted this about the statement and the organizations that supported it.


https://x.com/BillAckman/status/1711788747086233661?s=20

I have been asked by a number of  CEOs if @harvard would release a list of the members of each of the Harvard organizations that have issued the letter assigning sole responsibility for Hamas' heinous acts to Israel, so as to insure that none of us inadvertently hire any of their members.

If, in fact, their members support the letter they have released, the names of the signatories should be made public so their views are publicly known.

One should not be able to hide behind a corporate shield when issuing statements supporting the actions of terrorists, who, we now learn, have beheaded babies, among other inconceivably despicable acts.

Here is the statement
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7886yEbsAAVuNE?format=jpg&name=medium)

Here is the list of organizations that supported the statement
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F788605bIAAaYUX?format=jpg&name=medium)

I disagree with the joint statement. I agree that private businesses have the right to not hire someone based on speech they don't agree with.

But I'm confused because I thought we were against cancel culture and that colleges need to be more encouraging of free speech?

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on October 10, 2023, 05:47:35 PM
I disagree with the joint statement. I agree that private businesses have the right to not hire someone based on speech they don't agree with.

But I'm confused because I thought we were against cancel culture and that colleges need to be more encouraging of free speech?

I think that is true generally, but the beheading of babies pro ably crossed the line. And I dont think you are really confused

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 10, 2023, 06:01:49 PM
I think that is true generally, but the beheading of babies pro ably crossed the line. And I dont think you are really confused

I think the statement is ludicrous.
I also see nothing in the statement that endorses baby beheading.  What am I missing?

Quote from: Pakuni on October 10, 2023, 06:04:07 PM
I think the statement is ludicrous.
I also see nothing in the statement that endorses baby beheading.  What am I missing?

By stating Israel has nobody to blame but themselves, instead of denouncing the terrorists.

Harvard Jews For Liberation on that list, whoever they are.

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 10, 2023, 06:09:21 PM
By stating Israel has nobody to blame but themselves, instead of denouncing the terrorists.

Yeah, that's not the same thing. I imagine you know that, though.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 10, 2023, 06:13:50 PM
Yeah, that's not the same thing. I imagine you know that, though.

It actually is. these groups are giving Hamas a free pass. That is saying it is OK to behead babies if you dont like your opressor.

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 10, 2023, 06:31:50 PM
It actually is. these groups are giving Hamas a free pass. That is saying it is OK to behead babies if you dont like your opressor.

"Harvard students are pro-baby beheading" is a flaming hot Scoop Take I never expected, and yet here we are.
Somewhere, a rocket surgeon is blushing.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 10, 2023, 07:32:53 PM
"Harvard students are pro-baby beheading" is a flaming hot Scoop Take I never expected, and yet here we are.
Somewhere, a rocket surgeon is blushing.

Their wonderful statement is akin to saying, if the woman didnt dress so provocative,  she wouldnt have been raped.Just another form of victim blaming. Nowhere in their statement do they denounce the actions that occurred. To me, that is endorsement.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 10, 2023, 07:32:53 PM
"Harvard students are pro-baby beheading" is a flaming hot Scoop Take I never expected, and yet here we are.
Somewhere, a rocket surgeon is blushing.

The thread started with, "Bill Ackman said." Any article, thread, post, whatever that starts that way should be ignored. The guy is grifter and only fools care what he says.

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 10, 2023, 07:37:12 PM
Their wonderful statement is akin to saying, if the woman didnt dress so provocative,  she wouldnt have been raped.Just another form of victim blaming.

Too late. You specifically said Harvard students support baby beheading.  Own it. Make it your signature. Put it on a T-shirt.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 10, 2023, 07:53:54 PM
Too late. You specifically said Harvard students support baby beheading.  Own it. Make it your signature. Put it on a T-shirt.

What do you mean too late?By victim blaming andnot denouncing the actions, they seem to be OK with the consequences. It was a BS statement, with no empathy towards the victims.

Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 10, 2023, 07:37:30 PM
The thread started with, "Bill Ackman said." Any article, thread, post, whatever that starts that way should be ignored. The guy is grifter and only fools care what he says.

This is a comment on you, not Ackman

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 10, 2023, 08:02:00 PM
What do you mean too late?By victim blaming andnot denouncing the actions, they seem to be OK with the consequences. It was a BS statement, with no empathy towards the victims.

Too late to walk back your claim - upon hich you double downed - that Harvard students support the beheading of babies.

The statement was ludicrous, tone deaf and victim blaming. But nowhere in the statement did they endorse any of Hamas" actions, much less baby beheading (news of which, we should note, surfaced more than a day aftet the letter was written)..

Your rape analogy only works if you believe that anyone who says that wants women to be raped.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 10, 2023, 08:14:37 PM
Too late to walk back your claim - upon hich you double downed - that Harvard students support the beheading of babies.

The statement was ludicrous, tone deaf and victim blaming. But nowhere in the statement did they endorse any of Hamas" actions, much less baby beheading (news of which, we should note, surfaced more than a day aftet the letter was written)..

Your rape analogy only works if you believe that anyone who says that wants women to be raped.

Until these groups denounce Hamas' actions, I'll believe they are fine with what has happened.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 10, 2023, 12:52:02 PM
Never thought the student body at Harvard was made up of the best and the brightest. US News rankin's are skewed, hey?

They should publish every persons names who comprise those hate groups so prospective employers could see who these people really are

Quote from: Pakuni on October 10, 2023, 07:32:53 PM
"Harvard students are pro-baby beheading" is a flaming hot Scoop Take I never expected, and yet here we are.
Somewhere, a rocket surgeon is blushing.

You are one slippery fella there pakman. So what do these groups have to do, put a disclaimer in...umm, we are for everything hamas/Palestine is for except, insert small print and dude rattling off as much as he can in 10 seconds blahbity blah blah blahbity blah blah blah including but not limited to baby beheading, baby torture, baby water boarding, but leaving them in poopy diapers for days on end is cool oh, and easy on grandma and grandpa a little bit too otherwise, we're all in Alu Alan allah akbar skyhook shishkabob

Quote from: rocket surgeon on October 10, 2023, 08:39:32 PM
They should publish every persons names who comprise those hate groups so prospective employers could see who these people really are

YES! CANCEL THEM!

(For the record I do strongly support a private business' right to not hire someone based on their past use of free speech)

Quote from: rocket surgeon on October 10, 2023, 08:39:32 PM
They should publish every persons names who comprise those hate groups so prospective employers could see who these people really are

The president of each group, maybe.  I have some sympathy for a lot of the membership of those groups to get dragged into such a dumb statement.  I mean, what role does some random 18-year old member of the "Sikhs and Companions of Harvard Undergraduates" have here?  Imagine having signed up for the "Schlitz Lovers for Christ" or whatever at some point when you first got to Marquette, a couple weeks later some boob you've never met slaps the group's name on an idiotic statement 48 hours after an international incident, and then Bill Ackman uses you as an attention whore prop on twitter to say no one should ever hire you.

Last I heard about Ackman he was begging MIT to leave his wife's name out of the things Jeffrey Epstein's philanthropy funded.

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on October 10, 2023, 08:52:16 PM
YES! CANCEL THEM!

(For the record I do strongly support a private business' right to not hire someone based on their past use of free speech)

A Sixers writer made a similar sort of statement tweet response to Sixers' twitter post offering support for the victims and said "this post sucks".  He was promptly fired.  And a bunch of people were like "WHAT HAPPENED TO FREE SPEECH" immediately in the responses.  Felt refreshing to see it grossly misused/understood in the wild and not just here.

More names agreeing with Ackman to not hire and Harvard Students that signed the pro-Hamas letter.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/10/10/billionaire-ackman-others-pledge-they-wont-hire-harvard-students-who-signed-letter-criticizing-israel/?sh=be281994cc83

Jonathan Neman, the CEO and co-founder of healthy fast casual chain Sweetgreen, responded to Ackman's post on X, saying he "would like to know so I know never to hire these people," to which healthcare services company EasyHealth CEO David Duel responded: "Same."

DoveHill Capital Management CEO Jake Wurzak also supported Ackman's plea to release the names of the students, though Ackman's request did not receive universal support, with Meds.com CEO Stephen Sullivan writing people should "be angry at the administration and teachers" but cautioning against putting college students' names on a list.

Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on October 10, 2023, 09:12:36 PM
Last I heard about Ackman he was begging MIT to leave his wife's name out of the things Jeffrey Epstein's philanthropy funded.

Not quite, he was asking them not to reveal Epstein's donations to her lab at MIT, after his death. And FWIW, it wasn't Ackman trying to CYA as the donations had nothing to do with her and Ackman and had everything to do with the former director who then resigned.

His wife is also Israeli which likely contributes to his passion about this situation 

Quote from: JWags85 on October 10, 2023, 09:19:06 PM
Not quite, he was asking them not to reveal Epstein's donations to her lab at MIT, after his death. And FWIW, it wasn't Ackman trying to CYA as the donations had nothing to do with her and Ackman and had everything to do with the former director who then resigned.

His wife is also Israeli which likely contributes to his passion about this situation

https://www.axios.com/2019/09/14/joi-jeffrey-epstein-ties-mit-media-lab-professor

I mean they were donated to her lab and she produced a gift for it, so what you said isn't really accurate according to the news story above. But it doesn't really matter in regards to this topic aside from the original passing remark.

Quote from: Jockey on October 10, 2023, 03:29:36 PM
I remember the good old days in 1776 when we were the terrorists.

Right. Decapitating babies was the George Washington way.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 10, 2023, 09:16:46 PM
More names agreeing with Ackman to not hire and Harvard Students that signed the pro-Hamas letter.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/10/10/billionaire-ackman-others-pledge-they-wont-hire-harvard-students-who-signed-letter-criticizing-israel/?sh=be281994cc83

Jonathan Neman, the CEO and co-founder of healthy fast casual chain Sweetgreen, responded to Ackman's post on X, saying he "would like to know so I know never to hire these people," to which healthcare services company EasyHealth CEO David Duel responded: "Same."

DoveHill Capital Management CEO Jake Wurzak also supported Ackman's plea to release the names of the students, though Ackman's request did not receive universal support, with Meds.com CEO Stephen Sullivan writing people should "be angry at the administration and teachers" but cautioning against putting college students' names on a list.

Lots of opportunism going around.

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 10, 2023, 06:31:50 PM
It actually is. these groups are giving Hamas a free pass. That is saying it is OK to behead babies if you dont like your opressor.

"Lots of good people" supporting the barbarism. Where have I heard that excuse made before?

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on October 10, 2023, 08:52:16 PM
YES! CANCEL THEM!

(For the record I do strongly support a private business' right to not hire someone based on their past use of free speech)

Never said anything about free speech or disallowing it tamu, if these people believe so strongly in their cause, OWN IT  that's all.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 10, 2023, 09:49:53 PM
"Lots of good people" supporting the barbarism. Where have I heard that excuse made before?

From those who just want to give Ukraine to Putin?

Quote from: rocket surgeon on October 10, 2023, 10:00:32 PM

Never said anything about free speech or disallowing it tamu, if these people believe so strongly in their cause, OWN IT  that's all.

I didn't say anything about free speech (other than the stupid statement being free speech) or disallowing it either. I agreed with your demand that they be cancelled.

CANCEL THEM! CANCEL THEM TO DEATH!

It seems the threat of no hedge fund job after graduation is working.

Many are offering the excuse that they did not read it before agreeing to it.

Employers will now be lining up to hire them.

———-

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2023/10/11/student-groups-withdraw-israel-statement/

Amid continued national backlash, multiple Harvard student groups have withdrawn their signatures from a controversial statement calling Israel "entirely responsible" for the ongoing violence, and group members have faced doxxing attacks.

As of Tuesday night, at least five of the original 34 signatories — including Amnesty International at Harvard, Harvard College Act on a Dream, the Harvard Undergraduate Nepali Student Association, the Harvard Islamic Society, and Harvard Undergraduate Ghungroo — had withdrawn their endorsements, though the full list of endorsing groups was taken off the public statement earlier Tuesday.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 06:36:47 AM
It seems the threat of no hedge fund job after graduation is working.

Many are offering the excuse that they did not read it before agreeing to it.

Employers will now be lining up to hire them.

———-

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2023/10/11/student-groups-withdraw-israel-statement/

Amid continued national backlash, multiple Harvard student groups have withdrawn their signatures from a controversial statement calling Israel "entirely responsible" for the ongoing violence, and group members have faced doxxing attacks.

As of Tuesday night, at least five of the original 34 signatories — including Amnesty International at Harvard, Harvard College Act on a Dream, the Harvard Undergraduate Nepali Student Association, the Harvard Islamic Society, and Harvard Undergraduate Ghungroo — had withdrawn their endorsements, though the full list of endorsing groups was taken off the public statement earlier Tuesday.

It was better when it said higher them

I'm looking forward to the outrage here when a pro choice executive decides they don't want to hire students from Marquette's pro-life group.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 06:36:47 AM
It seems the threat of no hedge fund job after graduation is working.

Kids that join groups like the Harvard Kennedy Scbool Muslim Women's Caucus and Harvard Prison Divest Coalition want nothing more than to work for a hedge fund.
Everyone knows this.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 11, 2023, 07:00:16 AM
I'm looking forward to the outrage here when a pro choice executive decides they don't want to hire students from Marquette's pro-life group.

That's different.  That's cancel culture.  It's just locker room talk

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 07:12:38 AM
Kids that join groups like the Harvard Kennedy Scbool Muslim Women's Caucus and Harvard Prison Divest Coalition want nothing more than to work for a hedge fund.
Everyone knows this.

Correct.  Harvard is no longer an esteemed institute of higher learning.  It is the socialist/communist/extreme woke leadership training ground.  These people were selected for the university on the basis of "most liberal" and join these groups to enhance their extreme credentials.  They have no aspirations to work in the business world, or - in many cases - to work at all. 

Quote from: WarriorFan on October 11, 2023, 07:30:42 AM
Correct.  Harvard is no longer an esteemed institute of higher learning.  It is the socialist/communist/extreme woke leadership training ground.  These people were selected for the university on the basis of "most liberal" and join these groups to enhance their extreme credentials.  They have no aspirations to work in the business world, or - in many cases - to work at all.

A comment no doubt informed by your many interactions with Harvard students and recent alums, as well as a deep dive into their postgraduate careers.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 07:33:48 AM
A comment no doubt informed by your many interactions with Harvard students and recent alums, as well as and deep dive into their postgraduate careers.

Personally, I'm in favor of the war on woke.  It's a national winner for the GOP and should be their number one focus moving forward along with abortion.  Given the incredible success of Pudding Fingers so far, I have no doubt we will eradicate the woke hive mind that has made people see rainbow stickers at Target

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 11, 2023, 07:37:38 AM
Personally, I'm in favor of the war on woke.  It's a national winner for the GOP and should be their number one focus moving forward along with abortion.  Given the incredible success of Pudding Fingers so far, I have no doubt we will eradicate the woke hive mind that has made people see rainbow stickers at Target

Why have all the GOP candidates suddenly stopped saying "woke"? Heck, Vivek wrote a book on it. I thought it was one of the greatest threats to our country?

Quote from: jesmu84 on October 11, 2023, 07:43:22 AM
Why have all the GOP candidates suddenly stopped saying "woke"? Heck, Vivek wrote a book on it. I thought it was one of the greatest threats to our country?

It is.  I have my Fight Woke ribbon on my car.  #NeverSurrender

Quote from: jesmu84 on October 11, 2023, 07:43:22 AM
Why have all the GOP candidates suddenly stopped saying "woke"? Heck, Vivek wrote a book on it. I thought it was one of the greatest threats to our country?

Nah, as Mark Levin so eloquently states and spells out in his book, the greatest threat to this country is the Democratic Party, hey?

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 07:12:38 AM
Kids that join groups like the Harvard Kennedy Scbool Muslim Women's Caucus and Harvard Prison Divest Coalition want nothing more than to work for a hedge fund.
Everyone knows this.

Quote from: WarriorFan on October 11, 2023, 07:30:42 AM
Correct.  Harvard is no longer an esteemed institute of higher learning.  It is the socialist/communist/extreme woke leadership training ground.  These people were selected for the university on the basis of "most liberal" and join these groups to enhance their extreme credentials.  They have no aspirations to work in the business world, or - in many cases - to work at all. 

Totally incorrect

Many of their members are rich white suburban kids who are clueless and want to virtue signal their wokeness.

January 23, 2023
Ivy colleges favor rich kids for admission, while middle-class students face obstacles, study
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ivy-league-acceptance-rate-higher-for-wealthy-lowest-for-middle-class/#:~:text=It%20may%20come%20as%20no,to%20one%20these%20elite%20colleges.

Which group members do you think are pressuring these organizations to withdraw their signatures? These rich white suburban kids, likely juniors/seniors, are begging Bill Ackman or Goldman Sachs for an internship/job. And do not discount that their Fortune 500 CEO father is very upset with them being associated with this mess and let them know it yesterday morning.

The radical kids running that organizations intend to run for Senate in 20 years ... and they will probably win.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 11, 2023, 08:10:55 AM

Nah, as Mark Levin so eloquently states and spells out in his book, the greatest threat to this country is the Democratic Party, hey?

No, it's rainbow stickers, history, books and inclusivity

Also, Mark Levin 😂😂😂

Man, you guys just give your $$$ right over to grifters so easily

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 08:19:58 AM
The radical kids running that organizations intend to run for Senate in 20 years ... and they will probably win.

That's terrible. Only lifelong charlatans who brag to Billy Bush that they are kitten-grabbing sexual predators should be able to run for and win public office.

Quote from: MU82 on October 11, 2023, 08:46:19 AM
That's terrible. Only lifelong charlatans who brag to Billy Bush that they are kitten-grabbing sexual predators should be able to run for and win public office.

I was describing Senator John Fetterman of PA. He graduated from Harvard in 1999.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 08:19:58 AM
Totally incorrect

Many of their members are rich white suburban kids who are clueless and want to virtue signal their wokeness.

January 23, 2023
Ivy colleges favor rich kids for admission, while middle-class students face obstacles, study
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ivy-league-acceptance-rate-higher-for-wealthy-lowest-for-middle-class/#:~:text=It%20may%20come%20as%20no,to%20one%20these%20elite%20colleges.

Which group members do you think are pressuring these organizations to withdraw their signatures? These rich white suburban kids, likely juniors/seniors, are begging Bill Ackman or Goldman Sachs for an internship/job. And do not discount that their Fortune 500 CEO father is very upset with them being associated with this mess and let them know it yesterday morning.

The radical kids running that organizations intend to run for Senate in 20 years ... and they will probably win.

Once again, Heisey posts a link that utterly fails to support his claim.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 08:56:14 AM
Once again, Heisey posts a link that utterly fails to support his claim.

The school of busting at the seams with rich kids joining these groups to virtue signal. And when the future John Fetterman types that run it embarrass them, they demand a retraction to stay in good standing with Ken Griffin, Bill Ackman, and Goldman Sachs.

It is not that hard to understand.

-------

Median Family Income for Harvard Undergrads Triple National Average, Study Finds
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/1/25/harvard-income-percentile/#:~:text=The%20median%20family%20income%20for,median%20family%20income%2C%20ranked%20first.


The median family income for Harvard undergraduates is $168,800—more than three times the national median, according to a recent study.

Still, the study ranks Harvard among the worst colleges nationwide at enrolling lower-income students. With 4.5 percent of students from the bottom 20 percent of the income distribution, Harvard ranks 2011th out of the 2395 schools for its proportion of low-income students.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 08:55:53 AM
I was describing Senator John Fetterman of PA. He graduated from Harvard in 1999.

At least he's not Dr. Oz.

Quote from: MU82 on October 11, 2023, 09:13:19 AM
At least he's not Dr. Oz.

He graduated from Harvard 1982

Quote from: MU82 on October 11, 2023, 09:13:19 AM
At least he's not Dr. Oz.

He can't carry Dr. Oz's Bike, aina?

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 11, 2023, 09:27:03 AM

He can't carry Dr. Oz's Bike, aina?

George Santos says he invented the bike.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 09:18:00 AM
He graduated from Harvard 1982

Perfect.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 11, 2023, 09:27:03 AM

He can't carry Dr. Oz's Bike, aina?

Well, Dr. Oz is a conman, too

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 08:55:53 AM
I was describing Senator John Fetterman of PA. He graduated from Harvard in 1999.

Look at all these Ivy libs:

Ron DeSantis, Yale then Harvard
Tom Cotton, Harvard
Ted Cruz, Princeton then Harvard
Michael Braun, Harvard
Ben Sasse, Harvard
Dan Crenshaw, Harvard
Vivek Ramaswamy, Harvard then Yale
Elise Stefanik, Harvard
Josh Hawley, Yale
JD Vance, Yale
Samuel Alito, Yale
Clarence Thomas, Yale
John Roberts, Harvard
Brett Kavanaugh, Yale
Neil Gorsuch, Harvard
Glenn Youngkin, Harvard
Donald Trump, Penn

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 09:39:56 AM
Look at all these Ivy libs:

Ron DeSantis, Yale then Harvard
Tom Cotton, Harvard
Ted Cruz, Princeton then Harvard
Michael Braun, Harvard
Ben Sasse, Harvard
Dan Crenshaw, Harvard
Vivek Ramaswamy, Harvard then Yale
Elise Stefanik, Harvard
Josh Hawley, Yale
JD Vance, Yale
Samuel Alito, Yale
Clarence Thomas, Yale
John Roberts, Harvard
Brett Kavanaugh, Yale
Neil Gorsuch, Harvard
Glenn Youngkin, Harvard
Donald Trump, Penn

Interestingly, the decision makers that helped overthrow the elected Iranian government to bring back the Shah of Iran were all Ivy Leaguers, too. 

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 09:12:47 AM

The school of busting at the seams with rich kids joining these groups to virtue signal. And when the future John Fetterman types that run it embarrass them, they demand a retraction to stay in good standing with Ken Griffin, Bill Ackman, and Goldman Sachs.

Someone failed Logic 101.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 09:39:56 AM
Look at all these Ivy libs:

Ron DeSantis, Yale then Harvard
Tom Cotton, Harvard
Ted Cruz, Princeton then Harvard
Michael Braun, Harvard
Ben Sasse, Harvard
Dan Crenshaw, Harvard
Vivek Ramaswamy, Harvard then Yale
Elise Stefanik, Harvard
Josh Hawley, Yale
JD Vance, Yale
Samuel Alito, Yale
Clarence Thomas, Yale
John Roberts, Harvard
Brett Kavanaugh, Yale
Neil Gorsuch, Harvard
Glenn Youngkin, Harvard
Donald Trump, Penn

They are for the common person. It's the "other" Ivy Leaguers who are "elite."

Why, every time Thomas accepts a yacht trip, he's doing it for the commoners.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 09:51:32 AM
Someone failed Logic 101.

He usually does.

It starts here, aina?

https://apple.news/AC7UCcf96RVaUD4R0DwcF0w

There are a plethora of incredibly disturbing protests at major Universities across the USA and around the world praising this massacre.  It's beyond vile.  Antisemitic posts on social media are up like 500% after this,.  People are disgusting and morally bankrupt. 

Quote from: MuggsyB on October 11, 2023, 11:55:08 AM
There are a plethora of incredibly disturbing protests at major Universities across the USA and around the world praising this massacre.  It's beyond vile.  Antisemitic posts on social media are up like 500% after this,.  People are disgusting and morally bankrupt.

Well, antisemitic posts have been rising quite a bit since Elon took over X and more so after he complained about the ADL. 

Quote from: MuggsyB on October 11, 2023, 11:55:08 AM
Antisemitic posts on social media are up like 500% after this,.

Do you have any source on this?

Quote from: MuggsyB on October 11, 2023, 11:55:08 AM
There are a plethora of incredibly disturbing protests at major Universities across the USA and around the world praising this massacre.  It's beyond vile.  Antisemitic posts on social media are up like 500% after this,.  People are disgusting and morally bankrupt.

What we need are protests calling for America to invade another country, kill its leaders - and thousands of other citizens - and seize a fifth of its economy.
(Obviously any antisemitism and praise for Hamas is gross. Duh.)

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 09:51:32 AM
Someone failed Logic 101.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 11, 2023, 10:10:24 AM
He usually does.

There is a narcissism among the left, especially evidenced in the two above, that everyone thinks like them. When things do not appear as they believe they should be, they are either taken out of context, or there must be a "logical" explanation.  This is what they refer to as "logic 101."

In this case, 34 Harvard student groups blamed solely Israel for the atrocities.

One of the narcissists above thought this was a big bunch of nothing, and those who were objecting might have been breaking the law. 

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 10, 2023, 12:47:08 PM

That seems like a complete overreaction and possibly illegal.

Then the backlash started, from future employers saying they would not hire them to the President of Harvard saying these student groups do not speak for them.

So, these student groups are trying to walk away from their signatures one by one.

But the narcissists cannot accept the obvious: these are rich, woke children trying to virtue signal and signed the letter without reading it. How do we know this? Because one rich, woke child told us that is exactly what happened.

She describes herself as a board member of one of these groups.

Why is she trying to walk away from her signature?  I'll let her explain it.

As a board member of a Harvard group that signed the statement on Israel, I think it was egregious and have resigned from my role. I am sorry for the pain this caused. My organization did not have a formal process and I didn't even see the statement until we had signed on.


See, she did not read it. Now that everyone freaked out, she panicked and tried to run away from it.

Why? Because she is a rich, woke child more interested in virtue signaling than what is actually being said? Or is she panicking because of this LinkedIn post last month?

I'm thrilled to share that I have accepted an offer to join Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP as a 2024 Summer Associate and a Conrad Harper Fellow in the firm's New York office! #STBSummer

I am also excited to be returning to Schulte Roth + Zabel LLP for part of the summer. I had a fantastic summer at Schulte and am very grateful to the attorneys and legal professionals who mentored me during the summer program.

Thank you to everyone who guided me through the recruiting process!

Could it be that this rich, woke child panicked that she would lose this coveted summer internship over her ignorance and is desperately trying to damage control?

No, this cannot be it, says the narcissists. There is only one right answer: what they think is the right answer.

So when faced with something they don't understand, they start making things up, designed solely to make themselves feel better.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 07:12:38 AM
Kids that join groups like the Harvard Kennedy Scbool Muslim Women's Caucus and Harvard Prison Divest Coalition want nothing more than to work for a hedge fund.
Everyone knows this.

The answer must only be that these are radical kids who probably have a problem showering daily. So, they are outliers from polite society. There's nothing to see here. Move along.

It can never be the stark reality that these organizations are populated by rich, white, woke children on their board about to take a summer internship with a 1,000-attorney firm in NYC, and they are panicking that some of their attorneys, especially some of the Jewish attorneys, might take exception to this her signature.

This cannot be ... the first narcissist thinks such a thought is illegal.

Again this is about the "logic 101." Everything they think and their worldview is correct. Anything that divergences from that, or anyone that divergences from that, is wrong. It is "logic 101," as they call it.

This is the problem I have with the narcissists (and the others like them that I refer to using the word "circle"). They are too blind to see their absolute arrogance and sanctimony. This is why they constantly attack me. Because I don't think like them, that makes me dangerous because there is only one right worldview, and I do not hold it, according to them. I must be ridiculed and shouted off the stage.

Quote from: MuggsyB on October 11, 2023, 11:55:08 AM
There are a plethora of incredibly disturbing protests at major Universities across the USA and around the world praising this massacre.  It's beyond vile.  Antisemitic posts on social media are up like 500% after this,.  People are disgusting and morally bankrupt.

Can you share some examples of "disturbing protests at major universites across the USA praising this massacre"? I looked and haven't been able to find examples

Man writes 4,000-word screed on Scoop to call others narcissists.

(https://media.tenor.com/m2hkoxJEbBoAAAAC/self-aware-self-awareness.gif)

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 12:45:17 PM
Man writes 4,000-word screed on Scoop to call others narcissists.

Thank you for making my point.

Either agree with this narcissist or be ridiculed. And if he shouts with the loudest meme, everyone will agree with him.

After all, there is only one worldview: his.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 12:45:17 PM
Man writes 4,000-word screed on Scoop to call others narcissists.

(https://media.tenor.com/m2hkoxJEbBoAAAAC/self-aware-self-awareness.gif)

Also, supports a party that has been co-opted by the biggest narcissist in American history, not to mention a 91-felony criminal defendant who fomented a violent coup attempt against his own country.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 12:40:15 PM
There is a narcissism among the left, especially evidenced in the two above, that everyone thinks like them. When things do not appear as they believe they should be, they are either taken out of context, or there must be a "logical" explanation.  This is what they refer to as "logic 101."

In this case, 34 Harvard student groups blamed solely Israel for the atrocities.

One of the narcissists above thought this was a big bunch of nothing, and those who were objecting might have been breaking the law. 


Then the backlash started, from future employers saying they would not hire them to the President of Harvard saying these student groups do not speak for them.

So, these student groups are trying to walk away from their signatures one by one.

But the narcissists cannot accept the obvious: these are rich, woke children trying to virtue signal and signed the letter without reading it. How do we know this? Because one rich, woke child told us that is exactly what happened.

She describes herself as a board member of one of these groups.

Why is she trying to walk away from her signature?  I'll let her explain it.

As a board member of a Harvard group that signed the statement on Israel, I think it was egregious and have resigned from my role. I am sorry for the pain this caused. My organization did not have a formal process and I didn't even see the statement until we had signed on.


See, she did not read it. Now that everyone freaked out, she panicked and tried to run away from it.

Why? Because she is a rich, woke child more interested in virtue signaling than what is actually being said? Or is she panicking because of this LinkedIn post last month?

I'm thrilled to share that I have accepted an offer to join Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP as a 2024 Summer Associate and a Conrad Harper Fellow in the firm's New York office! #STBSummer

I am also excited to be returning to Schulte Roth + Zabel LLP for part of the summer. I had a fantastic summer at Schulte and am very grateful to the attorneys and legal professionals who mentored me during the summer program.

Thank you to everyone who guided me through the recruiting process!

Could it be that this rich, woke child panicked that she would lose this coveted summer internship over her ignorance and is desperately trying to damage control?

No, this cannot be it, says the narcissists. There is only one right answer: what they think is the right answer.

So when faced with something they don't understand, they start making things up, designed solely to make themselves feel better.

The answer must only be that these are radical kids who probably have a problem showering daily. So, they are outliers from polite society. There's nothing to see here. Move along.

It can never be the stark reality that these organizations are populated by rich, white, woke children kids on their board about to take a summer internship with a 1,000-attorney firm in NYC, and they are panicking that some of their attorneys, especially some of the Jewish attorneys, might take exception to this her signature.

This cannot be ... the first narcissist thinks such a thought is illegal.

Again this is about the "logic 101." Everything they think and their worldview is correct. Anything that divergences from that, or anyone that divergences from that, is wrong. It is "logic 101," as they call it.

This is the problem I have with the narcissists (and the others like them that I refer to using the word "circle"). They are too blind to see their absolute arrogance and sanctimony. This is why they constantly attack me. Because I don't think like them, that makes me dangerous because there is only one right worldview, and I do not hold it, according to them. I must be ridiculed and shouted off the stage.

Well no, too often you post opinions that aren't inherently a logos thought process they're rooted in a pathos argument. If you remove any emotional component of what they said and put it into a truth table then it becomes:

Did Israel establish an apartheid state? Yes

Did Israel commit human rights abuses? Yes

Is it a right of someone to want to fight back from human rights abuses? Yes

Now comes what you did which was post it on the belief that the fight back went too far (I 100% agree with this) but that's not a logical argument it's a pathos one. Heck one could argue that depending which ethical philosophy one is adhering to that it's not even an ethos argument. So it's well within those groups rights to post that statement as it stands up as true. It's also true but not logical that everyone else had a visceral emotional reaction to it because of the vile attacks that were carried out.

TLDR; what you call a logos argument is often a pathos argument.

Quote from: MU82 on October 11, 2023, 12:52:49 PM
Also, supports a party that has been co-opted by the biggest narcissist in American history, not to mention a 91-felony criminal defendant who fomented a violent coup attempt against his own country.

Inaccurately characterize me with a description that is only designed to give this third narcissist license to ridicule me.

The reality is that all this is rich, woke children who do not pay attention or understand what they are agreeing to.

And if this is true at Harvard, it is true among most of the left. How dare I say this!!

So, this makes it okay to scream with the loudest memes and invent insults because when you do not hold the narcissist worldview, it is okay to attack and make things up.

Anything to get everyone to agree with the narcissists.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 11, 2023, 12:55:59 PM

Well no, too often you post opinions that aren't inherently a logos thought process they're rooted in a pathos argument. If you remove any emotional component of what they said and put it into a truth table then it becomes:

Did Israel establish an apartheid state? Yes

Did Israel commit human rights abuses? Yes

Is it a right of someone to want to fight back from human rights abuses? Yes

Now comes what you did which was post it on the belief that the fight back went too far (I 100% agree with this) but that's not a logical argument it's a pathos one. Heck one could argue that depending which ethical philosophy one is adhering to that it's not even an ethos argument. So it's well within those groups rights to post that statement as it stands up as true. It's also true but not logical that everyone else had a visceral emotional reaction to it because of the vile attacks that were carried out.

TLDR; what you call a logos argument is often a pathos argument.

Your moral equivalent is digesting.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 01:02:00 PM
Your moral equivalent is digesting.

This is also a pathos argument not logos... assuming you mean disgusting not digesting. If you did mean digesting then I'm lost at your response.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 12:40:15 PM

So one rich white girl who has a fancy internship lined up explaining that she is backing out not because she fears for her internship but rather because her organization put out the statement without consulting her or letting her read it and she doesnt agree with it is somehow proof that all of these orgs are solely populated by rich white kids who want to virtue signal and are now backing out due to fear of losing their jobs and internships?

I agree that there are probably some rich white kids in these orgs. I also agree that some of that group probably virtual signal from time to time.  I even agree that there are likely members of these orgs (regardless of their race or tendency to virtue signal) who are backing down because of fear of harming their career. But you have to see the breakdown in logic in jumping from 1 person said they backed down for a completely different reason to all of them are backing down for the exact reason I claimed.

The important thing is we now know that you are pro cancelling.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 10, 2023, 12:47:08 PM

That seems like a complete overreaction and possibly illegal.

Cancel culture!!

Man calls others names and then says he's the one being insulted.

Man claims Harvard Jews for Liberation, The Kennedy School Bangladesh Caucus, Harvard College Pakistan Students, Harvard Undergraduate Nepali Students Association, Society of Arab Students, and Harvard Middle Eastern and North African Law Students Association, all consist of white kids from the suburbs, and then insists he's being logical.

Man claims students in Harvard's Law, Kennedy, Divinity, Design and Medical schools are dying to work for a hedge fund, and scoffs at any suggestion otherwise.

People wouldn't ridicule you if you weren't so ridiculous.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 01:13:46 PM
Man calls others names and then says he's the one being insulted.

Man claims Harvard Jews for Liberation, The Kennedy School Bangladesh Caucus, Harvard College Pakistan Students, Harvard Undergraduate Nepali Students Association, Society of Arab Students, and Harvard Middle Eastern and North African Law Students Association, all consist of white kids from the suburbs, and then insists he's being logical.

Man claims students in Harvard's Law, Kennedy, Divinity, Design and Medical schools are dying to work for a hedge fund, and scoffs at any suggestion otherwise.

People wouldn't ridicule you if you weren't so ridiculous.

It's not that he's just ridiculous, it's that he is oftentimes just so obviously wrong, then shifts the goalposts (along with writing another five paragraphs of stuff most don't bother reading), only just to be as wrong again.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 11, 2023, 12:55:59 PM

Well no, too often you post opinions that aren't inherently a logos thought process they're rooted in a pathos argument. If you remove any emotional component of what they said and put it into a truth table then it becomes:

Did Israel establish an apartheid state? Yes

Did Israel commit human rights abuses? Yes

Is it a right of someone to want to fight back from human rights abuses? Yes

Now comes what you did which was post it on the belief that the fight back went too far (I 100% agree with this) but that's not a logical argument it's a pathos one. Heck one could argue that depending which ethical philosophy one is adhering to that it's not even an ethos argument. So it's well within those groups rights to post that statement as it stands up as true. It's also true but not logical that everyone else had a visceral emotional reaction to it because of the vile attacks that were carried out.

TLDR; what you call a logos argument is often a pathos argument.

/applause

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 12:40:15 PM
This is the problem I have with the narcissists (and the others like them that I refer to using the word "circle"). They are too blind to see their absolute arrogance and sanctimony. This is why they constantly attack me. Because I don't think like them, that makes me dangerous because there is only one right worldview, and I do not hold it, according to them. I must be ridiculed and shouted off the stage.

You really have quite the view of yourself.  There is nothing about you posting on Scoop that is "dangerous." Nor is anyone shouting you off the stage - you aren't a victim.  Keep posting your diatribes.  But you are going to get called out when they lack a logical thought process, which is usually the case.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 12:40:15 PM
This is the problem I have with the narcissists (and the others like them that I refer to using the word "circle"). They are too blind to see their absolute arrogance and sanctimony. This is why they constantly attack me. Because I don't think like them, that makes me dangerous because there is only one right worldview, and I do not hold it, according to them. I must be ridiculed and shouted off the stage.

Why is it the right wing always whines and cries that they are victims when anyone dares contradict their views?

You just make it extra hilarious by on one hand claiming the other side thinks there is only one right worldview, then sobbing and playing the victim when they don't agree with your one right worldview.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 12:59:45 PM
The reality is that all this is rich, woke children who do not pay attention or understand what they are agreeing to.

And if this is true at Harvard, it is true among most of the left. How dare I say this!!

Yeah, sure is a mystery why people say you've failed Logic 101.

Wow

Validating me putting him on ignore back in June.   

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 12:59:45 PM
Inaccurately characterize me with a description that is only designed to give this third narcissist license to ridicule me.

The reality is that all this is rich, woke children who do not pay attention or understand what they are agreeing to.

And if this is true at Harvard, it is true among most of the left. How dare I say this!!

So, this makes it okay to scream with the loudest memes and invent insults because when you do not hold the narcissist worldview, it is okay to attack and make things up.

Anything to get everyone to agree with the narcissists.

You're a narcissist. And you're hilariously painting lots of people you don't have a clue about with a broad brush.

But I'll tell you what, Smuggles ... I will apologize bigly right now if you really haven't supported the 91-felony criminal defendant or the party he now owns. Because if a person hasn't actually supported the criminal defendant, I can't think of a worse insult than saying that person has. So again, if you haven't, a million apologies.

Speaking of grifts

https://apnews.com/article/election-2024-trump-turning-point-maga-d08a98e439fa4e902cb756d7e35153db

LOL

Pretty sure neither of you are using the term narcissist remotely correctly.

/insert inago montoya pic here

Quote from: MU82 on October 11, 2023, 03:20:37 PM
You're a narcissist. And you're hilariously painting lots of people you don't have a clue about with a broad brush.

But I'll tell you what, Smuggles ... I will apologize bigly right now if you really haven't supported the 91-felony criminal defendant or the party he now owns. Because if a person hasn't actually supported the criminal defendant, I can't think of a worse insult than saying that person has. So again, if you haven't, a million apologies.

My goodness, is there an unwritten by-law in the Scoop archives that 1 out of every 3 posts from you must reference Trump. And I dislike that guy immeasurably.

Y'all are gonna soil ur Haggars if he iz elected da next POTUS, aina?

#Project 2025
# Red Caesar

I would miss democracy and mourn the end of the American experiment.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 11, 2023, 03:31:59 PM
Y'all are gonna soil ur Hangars if he iz elected da next POTUS, aina?

I mean, you think democrats are the biggest threat to America, you might want to s(h)it this one out unless you want to do an underwear sharing program with MU82

Heisy with real Vivek/Russell Brand energy here

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 11, 2023, 03:31:59 PM
Y'all are gonna soil ur Hangars if he iz elected da next POTUS, aina?

I'd be happy to move out of the country again. Would prefer to stay in the states but I wouldn't mind a next to free MBA this time. 

Quote from: jesmu84 on October 11, 2023, 04:22:12 PM
Heisy with real Vivek/Russell Brand energy here

The question now is what damaging news dump is this is leading up to

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 11, 2023, 03:30:00 PM
My goodness, is there an unwritten by-law in the Scoop archives that 1 out of every 3 posts from you must reference Trump. And I dislike that guy immeasurably.

I think a lot of 82's comments like that are in threads started by Heisy - where he is looking to attack "libs" by proxy.

Meaning: ESPN, Cities, Warren Buffet, Hollywood, Disney, Burning Man, the Wahington Post, Black athletes making money, plaudits for Tucker Carlson, Cable is dying (another anti-Disney thread), etc., etc.

So why are you offended by 82's posts that obviously reference politics, but have no problem with Heisy's, which do the same? It seems you are only offended when trump is insulted.

No, what he is saying is it is borderline obnoxious bringing up Trump and Putin in every thread.  The same way 4elder and rocket bring up "the buffoon".

Both can be exhausting to read over and over again.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 11, 2023, 05:39:55 PM
No, what he is saying is it is borderline obnoxious bringing up Trump and Putin in every thread.  The same way 4elder and rocket bring up "the buffoon".

Both can be exhausting to read over and over again.

Yep.

Hey Sultan, did this law firm break the law?

N.Y.U. Law Student Sends Anti-Israel Message and Loses a Job Offer
The controversy is the latest sign of the deep divide on campuses over the Hamas attack that killed more than 1,000 people.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/11/us/nyu-law-harvard-hamas-israel.html

More law-breaking Sultan

Twelve Influential CEOs Support Bill Ackman's Stance Against Hiring Anti-Israel Harvard Students
https://vigourtimes.com/powerful-support-twelve-influential-ceos-support-bill-ackmans-stance-against-hiring-anti-israel-harvard-students/

In Dual Open Letters, Thousands of Harvard Students, Alumni, and Faculty Blast Student Groups' Israel Statement
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2023/10/11/dual-statements-criticize-psc/

Thousands of Harvard affiliates signed a joint statement published Tuesday condemning the deadly attack on Israel by militant group Hamas and calling for the retraction of student group signatures on a statement that held Israel "entirely responsible for all unfolding violence."

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 06:38:11 PM
Hey Sultan, did this law firm break the law?

N.Y.U. Law Student Sends Anti-Israel Message and Loses a Job Offer
The controversy is the latest sign of the deep divide on campuses over the Hamas attack that killed more than 1,000 people.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/11/us/nyu-law-harvard-hamas-israel.html

Obviously not. But that's not exactly what I was talking about.  I suggested that it was *possibly* against the law to refuse to hire members of a certain student group solely based on their membership in that group.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

(See how easy that is?)

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 11, 2023, 06:47:48 PM

Obviously not. But that's not exactly what I was talking about.  I suggested that it was *possibly* against the law to refuse to hire members of a certain student group solely based on their membership in that group.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

(See how easy that is?)

Let's go to the next (and harder) step.

First, let's remind everyone what you said about potential employers not wanting to hire those who are not willing to condemn the slaughter of women and children by those who committed the slaughter.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 10, 2023, 12:47:08 PM

That seems like a complete overreaction and possibly illegal.

Do you still think the potential employers are committing a "complete" overreaction?" And if so, what do you think is the appropriate reaction to those who will not condemn the beheading of 40 children?

Should any Jew be subjected to working with someone who will not condemn this? If so, are you ok with minorities being subject to someone who sympathizes with the KKK?

You all are lending way to credibility to a small group of rich hate mongers.

They deserve to be ignored like white supremacist. Their moral compass points the same, just different target of hate.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 11, 2023, 12:55:59 PM

Well no, too often you post opinions that aren't inherently a logos thought process they're rooted in a pathos argument. If you remove any emotional component of what they said and put it into a truth table then it becomes:

Did Israel establish an apartheid state? Yes

Did Israel commit human rights abuses? Yes

Is it a right of someone to want to fight back from human rights abuses? Yes

Now comes what you did which was post it on the belief that the fight back went too far (I 100% agree with this) but that's not a logical argument it's a pathos one. Heck one could argue that depending which ethical philosophy one is adhering to that it's not even an ethos argument. So it's well within those groups rights to post that statement as it stands up as true. It's also true but not logical that everyone else had a visceral emotional reaction to it because of the vile attacks that were carried out.

TLDR; what you call a logos argument is often a pathos argument.

I'll be charitable and assume you are a confused and ignorant person and not a Jew-hating blood-thirsty anti-semite. Because what you wrote is the latter.

Hamas is not asking for a two-state solution. Hamas has made it abundantly clear that only want one thing ... the death of every Jew. They celebrate it. They put out the horrific videos for the world to see. At least Hitler tried to hide it with his Final Solution. Hamas wants the world to see the Jews they killed only because they are Jews.

And, keep this in mind, this past weekend was the biggest attack and loss of life against Jews, because they were Jews, since the Holocaust. (bigger than the 1967 and 1973 wars).

So, I ask again, are you in agreement that Hamas only wants to kill every Jew on the Planet, not find a compromise with Israel? Or are you going to bastardized what Hamas has said to conform to some ignorant worldview you hold?

I'll stop here and see if you want to take the noose off your neck or kick the chair out from under your feet.

Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 11, 2023, 08:46:09 PM
You all are lending way to credibility to a small group of rich hate mongers.

This is an unfair stereotype of hedge fund managers.

Hamas =/= Palestine/Palestinians

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 08:58:39 PM
This is an unfair stereotype of hedge fund managers.

Lol.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 08:50:33 PM
I'll be charitable and assume you are a confused and ignorant person and not a Jew-hating blood-thirsty anti-semite. Because what you wrote is the latter.

Hamas is not asking for a two-state solution. Hamas has made it abundantly clear that only want one thing ... the death of every Jew. They celebrate it. They put out the horrific videos for the world to see. At least Hitler tried to hide it with his Final Solution. Hamas wants the world to see the Jews they killed only because they are Jews.

And, keep this in mind, this past weekend was the biggest attack and loss of life against Jews, because they were Jews, since the Holocaust. (bigger than the 1967 and 1973 wars).

So, I ask again, are you in agreement that Hamas only wants to kill every Jew on the Planet, not find a compromise with Israel? Or are you going to bastardized what Hamas has said to conform to some ignorant worldview you hold?

I'll stop here and see if you want to take the noose off your neck or kick the chair out from under your feet.

more emotion, not logic. Nowhere did I ever hate on Jewish people. Nowhere did I bring religion into this. Nowhere did I call for war. See this is why people say "you failed logic."

I agree, didn't I say these were horrendous action? A logical person wouldve read "the fight back went too far (I 100% agree with this)" and thought "oh he must think it was wrong what hamas did." Again you failed logic because you're caught in emotion.

Yes it was horrific, I said in an earlier post that their statement missed the mark entirely.

What ignorant world view is that? Could you please tell me? Because you haven't put together a logical formulation critiquing any bit of what was said only a bunch of emotional crap and thinly veiled insults.

I absolutely disdain what hamas did and their message, which seems to be mainly against Israel the state though there are some anti Jewish sentiments that I suppose given the information I can agree they want to exterminate the Jewish religion. That does not invalidate a single thing that I listed as true in our logic exercise.

Quote from: jesmu84 on October 11, 2023, 09:05:32 PM
Hamas =/= Palestine/Palestinians

Great, now we have to do math. :(

Doesn't the argument for this being potentially illegal go something like - nearly all of the groups that signed onto this letter are racial in nature, and so automatically stating that you would not hire anyone from those groups is racial discrimination?

In a vaccuum saying that "We wont hire anyone from the Harvard Islamic Society or the Harvard Kennedy School South Asia Caucus" is obviously no bueno.  I'm not an employment lawyer, so I'm not going to pretend to know the next step in that analysis, or whether objection to the letter is sufficient to meet a legal standard to make that permissible.

Quote from: MUBurrow on October 11, 2023, 09:11:52 PM
Doesn't the argument for this being potentially illegal go something like - nearly all of the groups that signed onto this letter are racial in nature, and so automatically stating that you would not hire anyone from those groups is racial discrimination?

In a vaccuum saying that "We wont hire anyone from the Harvard Islamic Society or the Harvard Kennedy School South Asia Caucus" is obviously no bueno.  I'm not an employment lawyer, so I'm not going to pretend to know the next step in that analysis, or whether objection to the letter is sufficient to meet a legal standard to make that permissible.

Not an expert on labor law, but I believe the discrimination has to be based on the protected class (i.e. because someone is Muslim or Palestinian). You can still refuse to hire someone who belongs to a protected class for reasons unrelated to that.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 09:19:50 PM
Not an expert on labor law, but I believe the discrimination has to be based on the protected class (i.e. because someone is Muslim or Palestinian). You can still refuse to hire someone who belongs to a protected class for reasons unrelated to that.

This is true.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 11, 2023, 09:19:50 PM
Not an expert on labor law, but I believe the discrimination has to be based on the protected class (i.e. because someone is Muslim or Palestinian). You can still refuse to hire someone who belongs to a protected class for reasons unrelated to that.

Bad opinions are universal across all humanity. Inspiring.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 11, 2023, 09:07:16 PM

more emotion, not logic. Nowhere did I ever hate on Jewish people. Nowhere did I bring religion into this. Nowhere did I call for war. See this is why people say "you failed logic."

I agree, didn't I say these were horrendous action? A logical person wouldve read "the fight back went too far (I 100% agree with this)" and thought "oh he must think it was wrong what hamas did." Again you failed logic because you're caught in emotion.

Yes it was horrific, I said in an earlier post that their statement missed the mark entirely.

What ignorant world view is that? Could you please tell me? Because you haven't put together a logical formulation critiquing any bit of what was said only a bunch of emotional crap and thinly veiled insults.

I absolutely disdain what hamas did and their message, which seems to be mainly against Israel the state though there are some anti Jewish sentiments that I suppose given the information I can agree they want to exterminate the Jewish religion. That does not invalidate a single thing that I listed as true in our logic exercise.

Ok, you agree they want to exterminate the Jewish religion. Hamas does not want a solution, they want to eliminate an entire population.

Hamas made the first move last weekend. We all know what is coming next. It is not going to be pretty when the IDF starts its counter-offensive.

Are you against what is coming? Do you agree it is Hamas that brought on what is about to come? To be clear, what is about to happen is Hamas's fault.

(Hint, the President of the United States said Israel has to right to defend itself. That is tantamount to saying "Go for it," and they are, and Congress is going to supply the ammunition to do it.)

To be very clear, who do you think is responsible for the coming bloodshed?

Let me give you another hint, for the first time in our lifetime we are going to have peace in the Middle East... because one side of going to win and will not stop until the other side unconditionally surrenders.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 09:43:58 PM
Ok, you agree they want to exterminate the Jewish religion. Hamas does not want a solution, they want to eliminate an entire population.

Hamas made the first move last weekend. We all know what is coming next. It is not going to be pretty when the IDF starts its counter-offensive.

Are you against what is coming? Do you agree it is Hamas that brought on what is about to come? To be clear, what is about to happen is Hamas's fault.

(Hint, the President of the United States said Israel has to right to defend itself. That is tantamount to saying "Go for it," and they are, and Congress is going to supply the ammunition to do it.)

To be very clear, who do you think is responsible for the coming bloodshed?

Let me give you another hint, for the first time in our lifetime we are going to have peace in the Middle East... because one side of going to win and will not stop until the other side unconditionally surrenders.

Patently false.  Israel has been ethnically cleansing Gaza and the West Bank for decades.  Calling Hamas' attack a 'first strike' is obscene and entirely without historical context.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 11, 2023, 10:01:49 PM
Patently false.  Israel has been ethnically cleansing Gaza and the West Bank for decades.  Calling Hamas' attack a 'first strike' is obscene and entirely without historical context.

Are you supporting the slaughter of innocent people? Even if your bogus claims are true (no jew has set foot in Gaza since 2005), how does it justify the beheading of children?

So, I will ask, what exactly are you saying?

Be very careful how you answer.

Ok first, way to just ignore all the stuff I asked you pointing out your previous post was an emotional accusatory rant rather than a logical response. This would be an example of the goalposts moving that Sultan was referring to. See how this is different than what you were accusing those supposed narcissists about?

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 09:43:58 PM
Hamas made the first move last weekend. We all know what is coming next. It is not going to be pretty when the IDF starts its counter-offensive.

Are you against what is coming? Do you agree it is Hamas that brought on what is about to come? To be clear, what is about to happen is Hamas's fault.

Am I against what is coming? I'm almost always against war. But retaliation is necessary. Wish they had a rapid strike mindset instead of blow everything to hell mindset.

Do I believe Hamas brought on what is about to come? No. I believe Hamas escalated it to a point that it is unavoidable. 

Quote
(Hint, the President of the United States said Israel has to right to defend itself. That is tantamount to saying "Go for it," and they are, and Congress is going to supply the ammunition to do it.)

So if the USA says it then it's ok? We've got plenty of skeletons in our closet... and strewn about in the open. We're siding with our ally which is what we should do.

Quote
To be very clear, who do you think is responsible for the coming bloodshed?

At the moment? Hamas. Overall? England for the initial issues and us for not upholding a standard of human rights to our ally. Who's been steadily provoking an attack? Israel.

Case: if I go up and attack you Im at fault and absolutely am responsible. if I'm screaming "you attacked me 5 years ago!" Or "you've been kicking me under the table for 10yrs I've had it!" Then you started it, I escalated it and if I then get my ass kicked by you it's still my fault but you absolutely weren't ethically right to have been kicking me for years.

Quote
Let me give you another hint, for the first time in our lifetime we are going to have peace in the Middle East... because one side of going to win and will not stop until the other side unconditionally surrenders.

Yeah that's not going to happen. I mean there's other conflicts going on hell Armenia and Azerbaijan are in a war.


Now it's my turn for aggressive questions:

Do you believe that Israel was inhumanely treating Palestinians? Well there's a scathing report from amnesty international in 2021 stating they were

Do you believe that Palestine has a disproportionately higher injury and death toll even in those "peaceful" times than Israel? There's a dashboard that tracks it.

Do agree that subhuman treatment has a tendency to radicalize individuals? Well there's loads of history saying yes, N Ireland, Palestine, Mandela's movement, black panthers, hell even your right wing militias here have a perceived mistreatment and are radicalizing in militias.

Do you believe that radicalized people have a tendency to join radical organizations that align with their frustrations? If yes, then the report amnesty international gave explains that Israel was at best willfully ignorant of the fact their mistreatment of Palestinians were strengthening a radical militant group.

Do you believe that if a place strengthened a radical militant group through their action they would bare some culpability? If yes, then you're the blood thirsty, Jew hating anti semite you accused me of as well lol.

Pointing out these things doesn't mean that Hamas is right, it doesn't mean Israel shouldn't defend itself. It just means they aren't right either.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 09:43:58 PM
Let me give you another hint, for the first time in our lifetime we are going to have peace in the Middle East.

Sadly, no.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 11, 2023, 10:19:19 PM
Now it's my turn for aggressive questions:

Do you believe that Israel was inhumanely treating Palestinians? Well, there's a scathing report from amnesty international in 2021 stating they were

There is no such thing as Palestinians. It is a word that denotes anti-zonist Arabs. And Israel treats anti-zionists accordingly.

20% of Israel is Arab. Arabs hold positions of power in government and business in Israel. Arabs are welcomed that embrace Israel.

And Amnesty International lost all credibility decades ago.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 11, 2023, 10:19:19 PM

Do agree that subhuman treatment has a tendency to radicalize individuals? Well there's loads of history saying yes, N Ireland, Palestine, Mandela's movement, black panthers, hell even your right wing militias here have a perceived mistreatment and are radicalizing in militias.

Do you believe that radicalized people have a tendency to join radical organizations that align with their frustrations? If yes, then the report amnesty international gave explains that Israel was at best willfully ignorant of the fact their mistreatment of Palestinians were strengthening a radical militant group.

Do you believe that if a place strengthened a radical militant group through their action they would bare some culpability? If yes, then you're the blood thirsty, Jew hating anti semite you accused me of as well lol.

Pointing out these things doesn't mean that Hamas is right, it doesn't mean Israel shouldn't defend itself. It just means they aren't right either.

The rest of the Arab world rejects Palestinians. The Egyptians, the Jordanians, and the Syrians do not want them.  Hamas has not held elections since 2006. Hamas keeps their people subhuman and desperate. Hamas wants Gaza to be an incubator of terrorists, and that is exactly what Gaza is.

Ask the rest of the Arab world why they do nothing for the Palestinians.

Your citing of Amensty and nature and tone of your question suggest you have bought into the propaganda.  Even you saying hell even your right-wing militias.

You have a worldview that cannot tolerate opposing viewpoints, So you have to demonize me and anyone that does not agree with you.

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 11, 2023, 03:30:00 PM
My goodness, is there an unwritten by-law in the Scoop archives that 1 out of every 3 posts from you must reference Trump. And I dislike that guy immeasurably.

Only 1 out of 3? I gotta up my game!

Why does our potus have to lie about stupid chit except for the obvious.  He ruins what little cred he has left

Speaking about him saying he saw the pics of beheaded kids...what's next? one of the hamas terrorists is named cornpop and the big guy took him out with his bare hands behind the barn?  Beat him a push up contest?

More embarrassment on the world stage

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 10:36:50 PM

There is no such thing as Palestinians. It is a word that denotes anti-zonist Arabs. And Israel treats anti-zionists accordingly.

Quote

They're a recognized ethnic group. Also
Note here you say they don't exist

Quote
20% of Israel is Arab. Arabs hold positions of power in government and business in Israel. Arabs are welcomed that embrace Israel.

To them that'd be like saying anyone who ignores their ethnic country is welcome to embrace their colonizer.

Quote
And Amnesty International lost all credibility decades ago.

Ok how about the Humans rights watch?

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

Quote
Palestinians are rejected by the rest of the Arab world. The Egyptians, the Jordanians, and the Syrians do not want them.  Hamas has not held elections since 2006. Hamas keeps their people subhuman and desperate, Hamas wants Gaza to be an incubated of terrorists, and that is exactly what Gaza is.

I thought Palestinians didn't exist? Either way I didn't say Hamas was correct.

Ask the rest of the Arab world why they do nothing for the Palestinians.

Quote
Your citing of Amensty and nature and tone of your question suggest you have bought into the propaganda.  Even you saying hell even your right-wing militias.

Ok changed my citation. How about now? And who are you kidding here, there's ample evidence for your old account of you being right wing, they might not be "your militias" but by that same logic Hamas isn't palestines.

Quote
You have a worldview that cannot tolerate opposing viewpoints, So you have to demonize me, and anyone that does not agree with you.

I'm sorry I'm not the one saying the other has bought into propaganda nor launching blatant unwarranted attacks like anti semite or blood thirsty. I think it might be you that doth protest too much here on being intolerant of opposing viewpoints and demonizing others. In fact outside of calling your arguments emotion based rather than logic based (they are) I've been very respectful which I can't say the same to you about.

Quote from: rocket surgeon on October 11, 2023, 10:41:52 PM
Why does our potus have to lie about stupid chit except for the obvious.  He ruins what little cred he has left

Speaking about him saying he saw the pics of beheaded kids...what's next? one of the hamas terrorists is named cornpop and the big guy took him out with his bare hands behind the barn?  Beat him a push up contest?

More embarrassment on the world stage

My brother, who lives outside of Tel Aviv, has heard the shells falling and has two friends who are among the missing, made a Facebook post today thanking President Biden for his strong words, his support and his empathy.

Also, headline in Wall Street Journal: Israelis Praise Biden's Speech, Question Netanyahu's Response

For Galway, Hards, and the rest of the Jew-haters here ...

You get all indignant because Gaza is so awful that the population has to live in their own sh!t and cannot get clean drinking water.

Israel Holds Up Vital Spare Parts for Gaza's Water and Sewage Systems
Parts that took less than a month to get into Gaza now take up to five months, leading to breakdowns, releasing sewage to the sea and reducing the quality of drinking water
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/

Why is this? For years, Israel and the EU have supplied all the material Gaza needs to fix its sewer system. 

So, what do they do with it?


EU funded water pipelines despite Hamas boast it could turn them into rockets
European Union is continuing aid to Palestinians amid growing fears over how it is being used
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/

We are seeing the closet thing since Nazis, for the first time in 70 years. They are killing Jews for being Jews.

The Palestinians and their supporters regularly fly swastikas at rallies celebrating the beheading of Jewish children.

And given this, you cannot see the evil and denounce it. You explain it away.

You are incapable of seeing how awful your words are.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 10:56:00 PM
For Galway, Hards, and the rest of the Jew-haters here ...

And given this, you cannot see the evil and denounce it. You explain it away.

You are incapable of seeing how awful your actions are.

You're right you are definitely the tolerant non demonizing one. Proved me wrong with logic this time.

Quote from: MU82 on October 11, 2023, 10:54:20 PM
My brother, who lives outside of Tel Aviv, has heard the shells falling and has two friends who are among the missing, made a Facebook post today thanking President Biden for his strong words, his support and his empathy.

Also, headline in Wall Street Journal: Israelis Praise Biden's Speech, Question Netanyahu's Response

I agree that Biden has said the right things so far.

But, will he continue along the line he has said over the last 48 hours?

I hope so, but I fear he will not.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 10:59:20 PM
I agree that Biden has said the right things so far.

But, will he continue along the line he has said over the last 48 hours?

I hope so, but I fear he will not.

He might not. We'll see.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 11, 2023, 10:58:05 PM
You're right you are definitely the tolerant non demonizing one. Proved me wrong with logic this time.

Because the easiest thing in your lifetime has been to denounce what Hamas did this past weekend. The second easiest thing to say is Israel's very existence is under mortal threat, and Israel has the right and obligation to defend their existence, and the US is correct to support it in any way it can.

But instead of saying these easy things, you dissemble and try to draw a moral equivalency. It is disgusting (spelled it correctly this time!)

And to answer your earlier question, what have Amnesty and Human Rights Watch said about beheading Children? Let me know what their opinion of that is.

I'm waiting.

Golda Meir was the Prime Minister of Isreal from 1969 to 1974

True fact, She was born in 1898, and her family moved to Milwaukee in 1906. She graduated from The State College of Wisconsin, now known as UWM. And she was a school teacher in Milwaukee for many years.

50 years ago she said this ... applies more now than ever.,

When peace comes, we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons. Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 11:05:58 PM
Because the easiest thing in your lifetime has been to denounce what Hamas did this past weekend. The second easiest thing to say is Israel's very existence is under mortal threat, and Israel has the right and obligation to defend their existence, and the US has correct to support it in any way it can.

But instead of saying these easy things, you dissemble and try to draw a moral equivalency. It is disgusting (spelled it correctly this time!)

And to answer your earlier question, what have Amnesty and Human Rights Watch said about beheading Children? Let me know what their opinion of that is.

I'm waiting.

Two things:

1) that has nothing to do with "demonizing others and being tolerant of other world views"  you literally just became the intolerant of other people's world views person you were claiming me to be by saying 'it's ok for me to demonize you because it's not what I agree with!'. You are not the beacon you claim to be and have repeatedly shown it.

2) the very fact that you've taken the following and said that I haven't denounced Hamas shows that you default to emotion not logic.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 11, 2023, 10:19:19 PM
I believe Hamas escalated it to a point that it is unavoidable. 

At the moment? Hamas.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 11, 2023, 09:07:16 PM

I agree, didn't I say these were horrendous action? A logical person wouldve read "the fight back went too far (I 100% agree with this)" and thought "oh he must think it was wrong what hamas did." Again you failed logic because you're caught in emotion.

Yes it was horrific, I said in an earlier post that their statement missed the mark entirely.

I absolutely disdain what hamas did and their message, which seems to be mainly against Israel the state though there are some anti Jewish sentiments that I suppose given the information I can agree they want to exterminate the Jewish religion. That does not invalidate a single thing that I listed as true in our logic exercise.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 11, 2023, 12:55:59 PM

Now comes what you did which was post it on the belief that the fight back went too far (I 100% agree with this) but that's not a logical argument it's a pathos one.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 11, 2023, 10:31:43 AM
Here's a pretty good visual the view of "these acts are heinous and warrant a retaliation but one has to acknowledge Israel's done some messed up things as well"

https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/

Again super pro Israel on this but some of you seem to think this happened in a vacuum and it didn't.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 10, 2023, 12:55:46 PM

I'm with Israel

Man you're right I really have been hating on "the Jews" in all my comments. Certainly never denounced the heinous actions of a terrorist group. Saying "yeah you can't provoke someone and then act like you didn't see it coming" is totally the same as me being a Jew hater. You again have proven to be the beacon of logic, and deciding who warrants demonizing and tolerating a world view (as long as it jives with your logic).

You are a parody of a person at this point.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 10:56:00 PM
For Galway, Hards, and the rest of the Jew-haters here ...

You get all indignant because Gaza is so awful that the population has to live in their own sh!t and cannot get clean drinking water.

Israel Holds Up Vital Spare Parts for Gaza's Water and Sewage Systems
Parts that took less than a month to get into Gaza now take up to five months, leading to breakdowns, releasing sewage to the sea and reducing the quality of drinking water
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/

Why is this? For years, Israel and the EU have supplied all the material Gaza needs to fix its sewer system. 

So, what do they do with it?


EU funded water pipelines despite Hamas boast it could turn them into rockets
European Union is continuing aid to Palestinians amid growing fears over how it is being used
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/

We are seeing the closet thing since Nazis, for the first time in 70 years. They are killing Jews for being Jews.

The Palestinians and their supporters regularly fly swastikas at rallies celebrating the beheading of Jewish children.

And given this, you cannot see the evil and denounce it. You explain it away.

You are incapable of seeing how awful your words are.

Claiming a group of millions of people recognized by pretty much most of the developed world don't exist, then proceeding to call people who call you out Jew haters. At best oblivious. At worst, maliciously pretty fucking racist.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 08:40:59 PM
Let's go to the next (and harder) step.

First, let's remind everyone what you said about potential employers not wanting to hire those who are not willing to condemn the slaughter of women and children by those who committed the slaughter.

Do you still think the potential employers are committing a "complete" overreaction?" And if so, what do you think is the appropriate reaction to those who will not condemn the beheading of 40 children?

Should any Jew be subjected to working with someone who will not condemn this? If so, are you ok with minorities being subject to someone who sympathizes with the KKK?

Yes I think it is a complete overreaction.   

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 10:13:59 PM
Are you supporting the slaughter of innocent people? Even if your bogus claims are true (no jew has set foot in Gaza since 2005), how does it justify the beheading of children?

So, I will ask, what exactly are you saying?

Be very careful how you answer.

I've been very clear you ignoramus.  I don't support Hamas or Israel's slaughter of innocent people.  And they both do it.  Whether it is direct gunfire, starvation, denial of medical supplies, beheading, buildings bombed and collapsed.  The death of innocent people on one side of this 'war' seem to matter a lot more than the other.

If you can't read exactly what I'm saying and are willing to make very strange threats maybe it's time to put the computer down for the night.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 11, 2023, 10:56:00 PM
For Galway, Hards, and the rest of the Jew-haters here ...

Excuse me, what?

Quote from: rocket surgeon on October 11, 2023, 10:41:52 PM
Why does our potus have to lie about stupid chit except for the obvious.  He ruins what little cred he has left

Speaking about him saying he saw the pics of beheaded kids...what's next? one of the hamas terrorists is named cornpop and the big guy took him out with his bare hands behind the barn?  Beat him a push up contest?

More embarrassment on the world stage

3 out of 10

Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 12, 2023, 06:09:47 AM
Excuse me, what?

He's desperate because, as usual, his "logic" is crashing and burning. Names and abusive language is all he has left.

Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on October 11, 2023, 10:23:00 PM
Sadly, no.

I dunno, given his track record of predicting things, it could be true this time

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 11, 2023, 11:25:25 PM
Two things:

1) that has nothing to do with "demonizing others and being tolerant of other world views"  you literally just became the intolerant of other people's world views person you were claiming me to be by saying 'it's ok for me to demonize you because it's not what I agree with!'. You are not the beacon you claim to be and have repeatedly shown it.

2) the very fact that you've taken the following and said that I haven't denounced Hamas shows that you default to emotion not logic.


Man you're right I really have been hating on "the Jews" in all my comments. Certainly never denounced the heinous actions of a terrorist group. Saying "yeah you can't provoke someone and then act like you didn't see it coming" is totally the same as me being a Jew hater. You again have proven to be the beacon of logic, and deciding who warrants demonizing and tolerating a world view (as long as it jives with your logic).

You are a parody of a person at this point.

Then support what Isreal is about to do. Support Isreal has the right to defend itself against this existential threat.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 12, 2023, 06:03:29 AM
I've been very clear you ignoramus.  I don't support Hamas or Israel's slaughter of innocent people.  And they both do it.  Whether it is direct gunfire, starvation, denial of medical supplies, beheading, buildings bombed and collapsed.  The death of innocent people on one side of this 'war' seem to matter a lot more than the other.

If you can't read exactly what I'm saying and are willing to make very strange threats maybe it's time to put the computer down for the night.

Actually you have not. You offered a moral equivalance, a justification.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:02:33 AM
Actually you have not. You offered a moral equivalance, a justification.

It is well established that you either can't read or you just make up whatever you want to fit your narrative.  Please point out where I have been unclear.

Until you can do that, shut the hell up, trashbag.

Quote from: MU82 on October 11, 2023, 10:54:20 PM
My brother, who lives outside of Tel Aviv, has heard the shells falling and has two friends who are among the missing, made a Facebook post today thanking President Biden for his strong words, his support and his empathy.

Also, headline in Wall Street Journal: Israelis Praise Biden's Speech, Question Netanyahu's Response

  tony blinken stood next to bibi this morning and both gave a very powerful and a concise show of unity that everyone needed to hear.  they didn't even have to show him which way to exit the stage.  such a better representation of us.  hamas/isis/taliban etc have no place in civilized societies.  ANY country that harbors and supports them needs to be dealt with on a world level and eliminated.  they are criminals of the worst kind.  my fears are they have already infiltrated our borders and innocent people here will be subjected to their evils

Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 12, 2023, 07:05:22 AM
It is well established that you either can't read or you just make up whatever you want to fit your narrative.  Please point out where I have been unclear.

Until you can do that, shut the hell up, trashbag.

Right here

These are anti-semite, anti-zonist talking points.

Your making a justification for the slaughter of innocent Jews because they are Jews.

You called it obscene to call what Hamas did a first strike. Do you understand what you said here?

If you do not understand how vile these comments are, stick to basketball on the AL.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 11, 2023, 10:01:49 PM
Patently false.  Israel has been ethnically cleansing Gaza and the West Bank for decades.  Calling Hamas' attack a 'first strike' is obscene and entirely without historical context.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:13:58 AM
Right here

These are anti-semite, anti-zonist talking points.

Your making a justification for the slaughter of innocent Jews because they are Jews.

You called in obscene to call what Hamas did a first strike. Do you understand what you said here?

If you do not understand how vile these comments are, stick to basketball on the AL.

They're not antisemitic talking points.  I'm not justifying any slaughter of innocent Jewish people.  I've said Hamas' attack is disgusting.  Your emotions frequently get in the way of your comprehension. 

I stated that anyone backed into a corner is going to fight back eventually.  That's called reality.  Look no further than the heroes of the Warsaw ghetto that fought back violently by any means necessary.  These men had nothing but pistols and improvised explosives. 

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/warsaw-ghetto-uprising

I have not once condoned any actions by either side.  I've said repeatedly they are BOTH grotesque.  Meanwhile, you can't even admit that the nation of Israel's actions leading up to this are sickening.  And that their actions since the terrorist attacks are gross.  Leveling entire city blocks filled with civilians is despicable.  Targetting ambulances and hospitals should evoke something inside you besides indifference.  But somehow it doesn't. 

Kinda weird, man.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:13:58 AM
Your making a justification for the slaughter of innocent Jews because they are Jews.

Hyperbolic nonsense.

Quote from: rocket surgeon on October 11, 2023, 10:41:52 PM
Why does our potus have to lie about stupid chit except for the obvious.  He ruins what little cred he has left

Speaking about him saying he saw the pics of beheaded kids...what's next? one of the hamas terrorists is named cornpop and the big guy took him out with his bare hands behind the barn?  Beat him a push up contest?

More embarrassment on the world stage

What, no, "you're right, BLM never said those things, those were just right-wing disinformation posts. How did I swallow such nonsense so easily? Thanks for correcting me, I really need to be less gullible"?

Instead of that, this bizarre spew?

Quote from: rocket surgeon on October 12, 2023, 07:10:46 AM
my fears are they have already infiltrated our borders and innocent people here will be subjected to their evils

Job well done, Fox, job well done.

And Heisy once told us propaganda doesn't work.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 12, 2023, 07:22:40 AM

Hyperbolic nonsense.

His keyboard must be soaked from all the frothing.

https://youtu.be/cWwcA2c361I?si=WVmJ3h53MnIjEQ-1

Quote from: rocket surgeon on October 12, 2023, 07:10:46 AM
  tony blinken stood next to bibi this morning and both gave a very powerful and a concise show of unity that everyone needed to hear.  they didn't even have to show him which way to exit the stage.  such a better representation of us.  hamas/isis/taliban etc have no place in civilized societies.  ANY country that harbors and supports them needs to be dealt with on a world level and eliminated.  they are criminals of the worst kind.  my fears are they have already infiltrated our borders and innocent people here will be subjected to their evils

Thank goodness we have a president who can hit all the right notes in a powerful speech to support of our close allies. Meanwhile, your lord and master immediately turned the situation into something about himself (shocking!) and about the "rigged" 2020 election (double shocking!). Talk about an international embarrassment.

But yes, we agree that Blinken is a good secretary of state, working hard to support both Israel and Ukraine. He didn't even need two hands to hold his cup of water.

One of the interesting things I read in this thread is the application of American cultural values to the rest of the world. We do have a distinct culture, no doubt, but it's questionable that it works in most of the rest of the world.

The premise among many is that the Palestinians are reacting to Israeli apartied that excludes them from the fullness of life inside what is now Israel. Because the Israelis are, essentially, bigots, the Palestinians' response is reasonable and justified.

We assume using our Americanness that all the Middle East needs is a good dose of Ameircan pluralism and all will be OK. The rest of the world doesn't work that way. It just doesn't.

The Middle East has been a tribal intersection for so many different peoples over time that there's bound to be fighting. Each of these tribes wants the Holy Land (aka, greater Israel) as its tribal homeland. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Romans, Turks, Persians and only God knows how many other tribes have fought over it. Read your Bible and you'll see the battles between the Israelites and just about every invading horde known to ancient times. Even Jesus' Crucifixition illustrated some of the tensions between confliucting tribes (Romans and Jews).

That's why the whole notion that the Palestinians are angry because they've been excluded from full citizenship in Israel is sheer nonsense. It's also why the notion of a comprehensive Middle East peace between Palestinian and Jew will never happen. Hamas and Hezbollah will never be happy until the last Jew has been killed and they're in control of what is now Israel. Nor will their masters in Iran!

Quote from: dgies9156 on October 12, 2023, 08:37:21 AM
One of the interesting things I read in this thread is the application of American cultural values to the rest of the world. We do have a distinct culture, no doubt, but it's questionable that it works in most of the rest of the world.

The premise among many is that the Palestinians are reacting to Israeli apartied that excludes them from the fullness of life inside what is now Israel. Because the Israelis are, essentially, bigots, the Palestinians' response is reasonable and justified.

We assume using our Americanness that all the Middle East needs is a good dose of Ameircan pluralism and all will be OK. The rest of the world doesn't work that way. It just doesn't.

The Middle East has been a tribal intersection for so many different peoples over time that there's bound to be fighting. Each of these tribes wants the Holy Land (aka, greater Israel) as its tribal homeland. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Romans, Turks, Persians and only God knows how many other tribes have fought over it. Read your Bible and you'll see the battles between the Israelites and just about every invading horde known to ancient times. Even Jesus' Crucifixition illustrated some of the tensions between confliucting tribes (Romans and Jews).

That's why the whole notion that the Palestinians are angry because they've been excluded from full citizenship in Israel is sheer nonsense. It's also why the notion of a comprehensive Middle East peace between Palestinian and Jew will never happen. Hamas and Hezbollah will never be happy until the last Jew has been killed and they're in control of what is now Israel. Nor will their masters in Iran!

In 1969 the PLO proposed a binational state that would welcome all the historical religions claiming the area because of the above. Israel rejected the proposal, because they wanted to have a Jewish homeland that controlled Jerusalem.

Also, I wonder if Heisy realizes his racist rhetoric sounds more like that of a Hamas terrorist than a sympathetic supporter of Israel, just as absurd, racist and violent...just from the other side.

Quote from: dgies9156 on October 12, 2023, 08:37:21 AM
One of the interesting things I read in this thread is the application of American cultural values to the rest of the world. We do have a distinct culture, no doubt, but it's questionable that it works in most of the rest of the world.

The premise among many is that the Palestinians are reacting to Israeli apartied that excludes them from the fullness of life inside what is now Israel. Because the Israelis are, essentially, bigots, the Palestinians' response is reasonable and justified.

We assume using our Americanness that all the Middle East needs is a good dose of Ameircan pluralism and all will be OK. The rest of the world doesn't work that way. It just doesn't.

The Middle East has been a tribal intersection for so many different peoples over time that there's bound to be fighting. Each of these tribes wants the Holy Land (aka, greater Israel) as its tribal homeland. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Romans, Turks, Persians and only God knows how many other tribes have fought over it. Read your Bible and you'll see the battles between the Israelites and just about every invading horde known to ancient times. Even Jesus' Crucifixition illustrated some of the tensions between confliucting tribes (Romans and Jews).

That's why the whole notion that the Palestinians are angry because they've been excluded from full citizenship in Israel is sheer nonsense. It's also why the notion of a comprehensive Middle East peace between Palestinian and Jew will never happen. Hamas and Hezbollah will never be happy until the last Jew has been killed and they're in control of what is now Israel. Nor will their masters in Iran!

Sounds like the line from the Ridley Scott movie, Kingdom of Heaven.

Orlando Bloom's character, "What is Jerusalem really worth?"
Saladin: "Nothing."    (pause)     "Everything."

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:13:58 AM
Right here

These are anti-semite, anti-zonist talking points.

Your making a justification for the slaughter of innocent Jews because they are Jews.

H2.0 I think this is part of the issue right now. Help me understand how antisemitism is the same as antizionism. Truly. I have always considered them different, connected of course and sometimes difficult to separate, but different.

I have always considered myself a pro Palestine free state lean, a two state person from way far away from the realities of the region. Friends are staunchly one state, only Israel believers. I have not spoken to any Muslim friends who want a one state Palestinian solution, but I'm certain I have some.

I have also considered myself a lover of Jewish people, yeah I guess I don't HAVE to love my family but I do. I am not Jewish by the way. Sure, I'm sure there are Jewish people I've worked with, hired, shared meals with, gone to temple with, celebrated bar and bar mitzvahs with that I would rather not associate with, bit it has ZERO to do with them being Jewish. And to be clear, I can't think of a single instance, but I didn't want to make a blanket statement.

So, how does recognizing the atrocities of one group automatically make me a sympathizer to another? Why does me saying while I have always considered myself a pro Palestine free state automatically make me an anti-Israel free state? I believe both should be free, why does that make me antisemitic? Why can't I mourn for the treatment of Gazans both at the hands of Hamas and Israel and also mourn at the grotesque murder of Israelis/Jews/Others this past weekend?

My wife has taught me something very important, in my opinion. Use the phrase "yes, and" rather than "yes, but." I don't know you or Muggsy personally, I would welcome the opportunity, of course, and I can feel your pain, your anger, your disgust, your passion, your love.

Quote from: dgies9156 on October 12, 2023, 08:37:21 AM

That's why the whole notion that the Palestinians are angry because they've been excluded from full citizenship in Israel is sheer nonsense. It's also why the notion of a comprehensive Middle East peace between Palestinian and Jew will never happen.

Did you watch the Anthony Bourdain episode where he goes to Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza Strip?

1. Palestinians =/= Hamas

2. Y'all, if you haven't realized by now, heisy has no interest - and has never had an interest - in good faith discussion.

Quote from: jesmu84 on October 12, 2023, 09:37:22 AM
1. Palestinians =/= Hamas

2. Y'all, if you haven't realized by now, heisy has no interest - and has never had an interest - in good faith discussion.

Put him on ignore last night. Feels good. At least I got one last view of his attempts at cancel culture, his virtue signaling of Israel, and his demonizing of other perspectives.

You'd swear he was as liberal as they come checking all those boxes.

Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on October 12, 2023, 07:28:13 AM
What, no, "you're right, BLM never said those things, those were just right-wing disinformation posts. How did I swallow such nonsense so easily? Thanks for correcting me, I really need to be less gullible"?

You ever notice that Sultan and Hards have no problem with Roqqet constantly mentioning Biden, but they clutch pearls whenever 82 (or I) mentions trump?

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 12, 2023, 09:41:29 AM
Put him on ignore last night. Feels good. At least I got one last view of his attempts at cancel culture, his virtue signaling of Israel, and his demonizing of other perspectives.

You'd swear he was as liberal as they come checking all those boxes.

You won't regret it.

Quote from: Jockey on October 12, 2023, 09:43:33 AM
You ever notice that Sultan and Hards have no problem with Roqqet constantly mentioning Biden, but they clutch pearls whenever 82 (or I) mentions trump?

Perhaps they still have hope for you two.

I wish Scoop got rid of the ignore feature.

Or, they hold smarter people to higher standards.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 12, 2023, 09:53:21 AM
Perhaps they still have hope for you two.

They'll probably regret it  8-)

Quote from: tower912 on October 12, 2023, 09:55:09 AM
Or, they hold smarter people to higher standards.

You mean like the rule pinned to the top of no politics?




We'd all be gone

True dat.

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 12, 2023, 10:01:31 AM
You mean like the rule pinned to the top of no politics?




We'd all be gone

Scoop revenues would plummet without us.

Quote from: Pakuni on October 12, 2023, 10:07:56 AM
Scoop revenues would plummet without us.

I've already stopped paying my dues here and transferred that to the Marquette NIL

Quote from: Jockey on October 12, 2023, 09:43:33 AM
You ever notice that Sultan and Hards have no problem with Roqqet constantly mentioning Biden, but they clutch pearls whenever 82 (or I) mentions trump?

I constantly crap on rocket and 4elder.  Like, its half of my posting behavior.  Quit being such a victim and be better instead.  You're not them so stop drifting that way.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 12, 2023, 10:27:52 AM
I constantly crap on rocket and 4elder.  Like, its half of my posting behavior.  Quit being such a victim and be better instead.  You're not them so stop drifting that way.

Yep.

Yeah, we always thought you were full of chit. Thanks for owning it, aina?

I read the first bit of this, admit I didn't read the whole thread. Going on social media, it feels like there is no middle on this. You either have to be pro-Israel or pro-Palestine. What Hamas did and continues to do is horrific. But what Israel has done since its founding is also horrific. And I strongly suspect whatever reaction Israel as a nation has to what was inflicted on their innocent civilians will be equally horrific to the innocent Palestinians.

Hamas is unquestionably in the wrong, just like Israel holding Palestine as an apartheid state is wrong. I don't see any way this works out without a true two-state solution, Israel standing down from Gaza forever, and Hamas being booted out of Palestine. But does any or all of that ever happen? Feels increasingly unlikely that we'll just get an equally ugly reaction from Israel to these already ugly events perpetrated by Hamas.

Quote from: forgetful on October 12, 2023, 08:40:36 AM
In 1969 the PLO proposed a binational state that would welcome all the historical religions claiming the area because of the above. Israel rejected the proposal, because they wanted to have a Jewish homeland that controlled Jerusalem.

Hold on, regardless of the current situation, you expected Israel  (less than 3 years after defending from all of the nearby Arab world in the 6 Day War) to accept a proposal from a militant terrorist organization who didn't recognize Israel or its right to exist?  Whose leader himself was leading armed raids into Israel targeting civilians?

This wasn't a proposal from the pragmatic Arafat PLO of the 90s.  The PLO of the 60s and 70s was Hamas Lite.  Hell, in 1988 the proposed a 2 state solution...that still allowed them to fight till "the end of The Zionist Entity"

Quote from: MU82 on October 12, 2023, 08:29:17 AM
Thank goodness we have a president who can hit all the right notes in a powerful speech to support of our close allies. Meanwhile, your lord and master immediately turned the situation into something about himself (shocking!) and about the "rigged" 2020 election (double shocking!). Talk about an international embarrassment.

But yes, we agree that Blinken is a good secretary of state, working hard to support both Israel and Ukraine. He didn't even need two hands to hold his cup of water.

How could he do otherwise. Who could support those who behead babies and he also made it about himself telling us as a young Senator meeting with Golda Meir quoting her that Israel's greatest strength is that we have no where else to go.

Biden will be the good cop having Israel's back while he lets the squad and Bernie paint the Palestinians as victims to Israeli hegemony, that way the Democrats won't lose any voters.

Quote from: muwarrior69 on October 12, 2023, 01:25:25 PM
How could he do otherwise. Who could support those who behead babies and he also made it about himself telling us as a young Senator meeting with Golda Meir quoting her that Israel's greatest strength is that we have no where else to go.

Biden will be the good cop having Israel's back while he lets the squad and Bernie paint the Palestinians as victims to Israeli hegemony, that way the Democrats won't lose any voters.

Y'all are really grasping at straws lately.

Quote from: muwarrior69 on October 12, 2023, 01:25:25 PM
Biden will be the good cop having Israel's back while he lets the squad and Bernie paint the Palestinians as victims to Israeli hegemony, that way the Democrats won't lose any voters.

We have the presumptive GOP presidential candidate and party leader praising terrorists as "smart people" and victim-blaming the Israelis.
A Republican U.S. Senator is saying we shouldn't pick sides.
The most popular media figure on the right is questioning America's support for Israel.
All of which you remain silent on.
But Bernie Sanders saying, "Maybe let's not kill innocent civilians" is something you find offensive?
Character revealed.

Quote from: muwarrior69 on October 12, 2023, 01:25:25 PM
How could he do otherwise. Who could support those who behead babies and he also made it about himself telling us as a young Senator meeting with Golda Meir quoting her that Israel's greatest strength is that we have no where else to go.

Biden will be the good cop having Israel's back while he lets the squad and Bernie paint the Palestinians as victims to Israeli hegemony, that way the Democrats won't lose any voters.

Or...he was relating personal experience that added depth to his perspective and feelings on the conflict?  You don't have to like but a first person interaction/conversation with a legendary Israeli leader is far more relevant a perspective on this situation than 90% of people commentating.  Nothing about that even remotely read self serving

As for the squad doing what they do, it's lunacy to think either party is fully in lock step.  It's not like they posed legislation.  I wouldn't expect a GOP politician I respect to publicly comment on something MTG stupidly tweeted.  Biden has more important things to do and comment on right now, which he is doing well.  Besides, if someone agrees with what Tlaib or Omar is saying about Israel, Biden saying "no, we should support Israel" isn't gonna change their mind.

Quote from: JWags85 on October 12, 2023, 01:44:08 PM
Or...he was relating personal experience that added depth to his perspective and feelings on the conflict?  You don't have to like but a first person interaction/conversation with a legendary Israeli leader is far more relevant a perspective on this situation than 90% of people commentating.  Nothing about that even remotely read self serving

As for the squad doing what they do, it's lunacy to think either party is fully in lock step.  It's not like they posed legislation.  I wouldn't expect a GOP politician I respect to publicly comment on something MTG stupidly tweeted.  Biden has more important things to do and comment on right now, which he is doing well.  Besides, if someone agrees with what Tlaib or Omar is saying about Israel, Biden saying "no, we should support Israel" isn't gonna change their mind.

Oh, I dunno.  Give it time.  I'm willing to bet Biden saying support Israel is going to lead to some questioning that support

Quote from: muwarrior69 on October 12, 2023, 01:25:25 PM
How could he do otherwise. Who could support those who behead babies and he also made it about himself telling us as a young Senator meeting with Golda Meir quoting her that Israel's greatest strength is that we have no where else to go.

Biden will be the good cop having Israel's back while he lets the squad and Bernie paint the Palestinians as victims to Israeli hegemony, that way the Democrats won't lose any voters.

I see you've got your talking points.

It's okay to suggest that no more civilians get killed if possible.  Heck, that'd even be pretty Christian of you.

The repeated line of "this is an existential crisis for Israel" is such a crock.  Israel will continue to exist for as long as they have the arsenal of weapons they possess but don't officially possess (wink wink).  The only existential crisis is that of Bibi and his cadre of right wing oppressive extremists.  And the world would be better off without them in power.

Quote from: JWags85 on October 12, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Hold on, regardless of the current situation, you expected Israel  (less than 3 years after defending from all of the nearby Arab world in the 6 Day War) to accept a proposal from a militant terrorist organization who didn't recognize Israel or its right to exist?  Whose leader himself was leading armed raids into Israel targeting civilians?

This wasn't a proposal from the pragmatic Arafat PLO of the 90s.  The PLO of the 60s and 70s was Hamas Lite.  Hell, in 1988 the proposed a 2 state solution...that still allowed them to fight till "the end of The Zionist Entity"

The post was in part a counter to people who were saying that since 1948, the Palestinians refused any solutions that didn't result in the expulsion of all Jews from Israel. It was an example of times where they were willing to compromise.

It was also motivated by Heisy posting about the leader of Israel at the time, who said that there wouldn't be peace because of the Palestinians, when meanwhile that same leader refused both the PLO offer, and the Rodger's plan.

Frankly I wouldn't have expected a solution then, and I don't expect a solution now, because the people making decisions tend closer to the religious fundamentalist side, where anything besides them getting 100% of what they want is a no deal. That's why there has never been as solution, and there continues to be violence.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 12, 2023, 01:47:27 PM
I see you've got your talking points.

It's okay to suggest that no more civilians get killed if possible.  Heck, that'd even be pretty Christian of you.

The repeated line of "this is an existential crisis for Israel" is such a crock.  Israel will continue to exist for as long as they have the arsenal of weapons they possess but don't officially possess (wink wink).  The only existential crisis is that of Bibi and his cadre of right wing oppressive extremists.  And the world would be better off without them in power.

There will not be criticism of Netanyahu in the immediate future because a whole lot of Americans like his ideas with regards to governance.  That's part of the "blame Biden" crowd willfully ignore.  No way Bibi could be partly at fault for something happening to Israel under his watch.  Whole lot of narratives out that window placing any blame on, you know, the leader of Israel

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 12, 2023, 01:58:57 PM
There will not be criticism of Netanyahu in the immediate future because a whole lot of Americans like his ideas with regards to governance.  That's part of the "blame Biden" crowd willfully ignore.  No way Bibi could be partly at fault for something happening to Israel under his watch.  Whole lot of narratives out that window placing any blame on, you know, the leader of Israel

Something like 4 out of 5 Israeli citizens blame him.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 12, 2023, 02:00:11 PM
Something like 4 out of 5 Israeli citizens blame him.

I meant from the blame Biden crowd

Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 12, 2023, 02:00:11 PM
Something like 4 out of 5 Israeli citizens blame him.

I hope that holds in the next election, kick Likud out. They keep electing far right nationalists in Israel. I don't get why people are attracted to that sort of person/party. They're inherently fearful and weak so they come out with chest-thumping to appear strong, really strange that people fall for it.

Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 12, 2023, 02:05:07 PM
I hope that holds in the next election, kick Likud out. They keep electing far right nationalists in Israel. I don't get why people are attracted to that sort of person/party. They're inherently fearful and weak so they come out with chest-thumping to appear strong, really strange that people fall for it.

Are there a lot of boomers in Israel?

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 12, 2023, 02:05:48 PM
Are there a lot of boomers in Israel?

Yes...and dentists.

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 12, 2023, 02:05:48 PM
Are there a lot of boomers in Israel?

Not particularly.

Why don't y'all antisemites stand up, say it loud, and be counted. Don't hide behind some bullchit rhetoric and think you're outsmarting the rest of us. Not hard to read between the lines here, aina?

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 12, 2023, 02:27:56 PM
Why don't y'all antisemites stand up, say it loud, and be counted. Don't hide behind some bullchit rhetoric and think you're outsmarting the rest of us. Not hard to read between the lines here, aina?

The idea that the world is full of shades of gray is difficult for you ai''na?

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 12, 2023, 02:29:33 PM

The idea that the world is full of shades of gray is difficult for you ai''na?

2 + 2 is way easier than trig.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 12, 2023, 02:27:56 PM
Why don't y'all antisemites stand up, say it loud, and be counted. Don't hide behind some bullchit rhetoric and think you're outsmarting the rest of us. Not hard to read between the lines here, aina?

I don't see any antisemitism here.  Just people decrying the violence caused by both sides of the conflict.

The state of Israel isn't beyond reproach for its actions.  They're war crimes no matter who is committing them.

"Both sides have good and bad people" said about American guys with nazi flags, confederate flags, and running over a counter protestor = Makes sense

"Both sides have done terrible things" about our ally's nationalist party continued subhuman treatment of Palestinians and a terrorist group's heinous actions = anti semites.

Do I have this right?

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 12, 2023, 02:52:15 PM
"Both sides have good and bad people" said about American guys with nazi flags, confederate flags, and running over a counter protestor = Makes sense

"Both sides have done terrible things" about our ally's nationalist party and a terrorist group = anti semites.

Do I have this right?

Pretty much. 

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 12, 2023, 02:52:15 PM
"Both sides have good and bad people" said about American guys with nazi flags, confederate flags, and running over a counter protestor = Makes sense

"Both sides have done terrible things" about our ally's nationalist party continued subhuman treatment of Palestinians and a terrorist group's heinous actions = anti semites.

Do I have this right?

Nailed it

So far 6 have happily identified themselves. Step up and be heard, hey?

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 12, 2023, 03:16:03 PM
So far 6 have happily identified themselves. Step up and be heard, hey?

If you criticize Israel at all you are an antisemite.  -  4elder

Says a bit more about you to believe such a thing.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 12, 2023, 03:16:03 PM
So far 6 have happily identified themselves. Step up and be heard, hey?

(https://media.tenor.com/H88ZDcQ_xWQAAAAM/tom-and-jerry-nibbles.gif)

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 12, 2023, 03:16:03 PM
So far 6 have happily identified themselves. Step up and be heard, hey?

This is why religion is the most dangerous thing throughout history.  Reasonable criticism of Israel is considered anti-semitism.

Since I find all religion folly, then yes, I guess I'm an anti-semite.

Now 7. C'mon now, say it, say proud, hey?

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 12, 2023, 03:16:03 PM
So far 6 have happily identified themselves. Step up and be heard, hey?

The great irony here is we've seen you for years complain that your "opinions"  get called racist and/or homophobic and/or misogynistic then we've seen you rant about the hypocrisy of a "tolerant left". But now you turn around and are doing the same thing. It's very similar to Heisenberg's "you can't tolerate other world views and demonize others" then turns around and calls everybody Jew haters when nobody espoused anything remotely akin to that.

Quote from: forgetful on October 12, 2023, 01:55:43 PM
The post was in part a counter to people who were saying that since 1948, the Palestinians refused any solutions that didn't result in the expulsion of all Jews from Israel. It was an example of times where they were willing to compromise.

It was also motivated by Heisy posting about the leader of Israel at the time, who said that there wouldn't be peace because of the Palestinians, when meanwhile that same leader refused both the PLO offer, and the Rodger's plan.

Frankly I wouldn't have expected a solution then, and I don't expect a solution now, because the people making decisions tend closer to the religious fundamentalist side, where anything besides them getting 100% of what they want is a no deal. That's why there has never been as solution, and there continues to be violence.

With all due respect, while I see what you're trying to convey, I fully disagree with this interpretation.

I don't view any PLO interludes around 1969 as compromise.  If Hamas this weekend said they'd be willing to accept a two state solution would we really view that as a compromise?  No it would seem like deception veiled in good faith negotiation.  It runs counter to everything they have ever said and stood for.  As I said, the PLO's attempt to compromise 20 years later, when they were less terrorist aimed than in the late 60s/70s still was caveating their ability to still attack Israel as much as they wanted.  No "compromise" by the PLO before they recognized Israel or its right to exist should ever be considered a compromise that was turned down.  It's just a demand

Rodger's plan is a bit more of an argument I can see, but that came out of nowhere with little to no collaboration between the affected nations and surprised everyone and was thus rejected outright. 

Sure it's revisionist history in a way, but I truly believe Golda Meir would have accepted a two state solution of the variety we have mentioned in modern times, but you have a vastly different Arab world (namely 180 degree flips in Jordan and Egypt's attitude and relationship to Israel and the West).  You talk of rejected compromise from a time and "Palestinian" collective who didn't recognize Israel or it's legitimacy.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 12, 2023, 03:40:52 PM
The great irony here is we've seen you for years complain that your "opinions"  get called racist and/or homophobic and/or misogynistic then we've seen you rant about the hypocrisy of a "tolerant left". But now you turn around and are doing the same thing. It's very similar to Heisenberg's "you can't tolerate other world views and demonize others" then turns around and calls everybody Jew haters when nobody espoused anything remotely akin to that.

Yesterday, he said democrats are the greatest threat to America.  He's obviously unhinged and lost to the morass of right wing nut jobs.  It's pretty sad because he's obviously smarter than that but it's not an odd phenomena in America anymore.  30 years of Fox and right wing radio has rotted the minds of many smart Americans. 

He was convinced the American response would be muted from the administration and since it wasn't, we're the next targets of his unhinged rage against modern America and reasonable discourse that was happening here. 

You can say you agree with Israel defending itself while bemoaning the results of what will occur until your blue in the face and he'll think your anti-Semitic.  So what? 

Quote from: Galway Eagle on October 12, 2023, 03:40:52 PM
The great irony here is we've seen you for years complain that your "opinions"  get called racist and/or homophobic and/or misogynistic then we've seen you rant about the hypocrisy of a "tolerant left". But now you turn around and are doing the same thing. It's very similar to Heisenberg's "you can't tolerate other world views and demonize others" then turns around and calls everybody Jew haters when nobody espoused anything remotely akin to that.

The irony for me is that people complain that the "racist" tag is overused and far too often thrown around these days, which I think is actually a valid complaint.  Calling someone racist for having a viewpoint on race or the actions of someone of a different ethnicity (or sometimes just a racially insensitive remark) downplays and cheapens the actual insidious racism that is far too prevalent. If everyone is a racist then the true POS racists are just like everyone else, exaggerated or whatnot.

But that same group is now throwing anti-Semitism around haphazardly.  And the same issues with that ham-handed labeling exists.

There are plenty of people I strongly disagree with in regards to their Israel stance, but that doesn't mean their are anti-Semites (I mean Bernie, come on.  I've agreed with like 2% of everything he's done as a politician but that's just laughable).  There are some people in US government I truly feel are anti-Semitic (and no I don't mean 82's fav president) but that's far different than people with opposing thoughts like those here.

FWIW, I also think there is a difference between egregious Palestinian apologists and anti-Semities as well

Found a couple of anti-semites

https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1711496189323952185?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q

Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 12, 2023, 07:22:24 AM
They're not antisemitic talking points.  I'm not justifying any slaughter of innocent Jewish people.  I've said Hamas' attack is disgusting.  Your emotions frequently get in the way of your comprehension. 

I stated that anyone backed into a corner is going to fight back eventually.  That's called reality.  Look no further than the heroes of the Warsaw ghetto that fought back violently by any means necessary.  These men had nothing but pistols and improvised explosives. 

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/warsaw-ghetto-uprising

I have not once condoned any actions by either side.  I've said repeatedly they are BOTH grotesque.  Meanwhile, you can't even admit that the nation of Israel's actions leading up to this are sickening.  And that their actions since the terrorist attacks are gross.  Leveling entire city blocks filled with civilians is despicable.  Targetting ambulances and hospitals should evoke something inside you besides indifference.  But somehow it doesn't. 

Kinda weird, man.

Hamas was not backed into the corner. They planned this for two years. It was intentional and premeditated.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 12, 2023, 03:16:03 PM
So far 6 have happily identified themselves. Step up and be heard, hey?

C'mon 4E, you can't stand this sentiment around here. Maybe you're making a point about how you're treated here, if that's the case, it's a point well made. Bullying is bullying. Dismissive is dismissive. Judgement is judgement.

I don't know much about it yet, but there is an opinion that conflating antisemitism and anti-Zionism is harmful to the Jews, that it brings about even more hatred and heinous treatment of Jews. It actually said that equating the two is in itself antisemitic. I don't know about that, just mentioning it was in the piece. To be clear, I read this for the first time today in The Georgetown Voice as I was googling the relationship between the two ideas.

It admittedly writes opinions through a "liberal light" so take that for what it's worth. I don't know what that means, but in today's made up ideological spectrum it probably means not conservative as it seems to be defined today. I have definitely read plenty that says anti-Zionism is antisemitism, and often times it is depending on context and words. This is why it's complicated, in my opinion.

So, actually, you're not totally wrong when you say anti-Zionism is antisemitic, it's just a very black and white, non-nuanced, unfair in my opinion viewpoint. Kinda the viewpoint you rightfully loathe that pops up here on the daily. We all like to "frame" our arguments and opinions, we all like to simplify difficult topics, we all like to pick and choose words and ideas that seem to then create an often misguided singular, narrow thought. We all do it.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 05:10:24 PM
Hamas was not backed into the corner. They planned this for two years. It was intentional and premeditated.

Yes they have been, doesn't excuse the actions. Yes they have been. Yes it was.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 12, 2023, 07:22:40 AM

Hyperbolic nonsense.

A guy with an Arab reference in his handle is downplaying the significance of what happened this last week.

(Hyperbolic above, an overreaction in two previous posts).

Don't worry .. the anti-semite wing of the "circle" will defend you.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 05:12:46 PM
A guy with an Arab reference in his handle is downplaying the significance of what happened this last week.

I have never downplayed what happened last week and you know that.

And lol on the sultan reference. Your desperation is amusing.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 05:12:46 PM
A guy with an Arab reference in his handle is downplaying the significance of what happened this last week.

(Hyperbolic above, an overreaction in two previous posts).

Don't worry .. the anti-semite wing of the "circle" will defend you.

laff

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 05:10:24 PM
Hamas was not backed into the corner. They planned this for two years. It was intentional and premeditated.

The assumption being here that they were backed into a corner recently instead of the last two decades.  You have a very tenuous grasp of history.

I wish you the best.

Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on October 12, 2023, 05:12:39 PM
Yes they have been, doesn't excuse the actions. Yes they have been. Yes it was.

Small point of contention.  I don't agree Hamas was backed into a corner.  I could concede Palestinians were back into a corner...which Hamas then used to support/justify/fuel their objections and desires

Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 12, 2023, 05:41:56 PM
The assumption being here that they were backed into a corner recently instead of the last two decades.  You have a very tenuous grasp of history.

I wish you the best.

    Palestinians could have had a separate state decades ago but chose Hamas who is hate  personified
    What's missing in the discussion is how many Israeli Muslims are very happy to live freely and unencumbered to pursue happiness. Contrast that with Hamas spending the money nations donate on tunnels and rockets instead of helping their people.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 12, 2023, 05:26:52 PM
I have never downplayed what happened last week and you know that.

And lol on the sultan reference. Your desperation is amusing.

Cultural appropriation

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 06:33:33 PM
Cultural appropriation

Now you're just saying words

Quote from: dgies9156 on October 12, 2023, 08:37:21 AM
One of the interesting things I read in this thread is the application of American cultural values to the rest of the world. We do have a distinct culture, no doubt, but it's questionable that it works in most of the rest of the world.

The premise among many is that the Palestinians are reacting to Israeli apartied that excludes them from the fullness of life inside what is now Israel. Because the Israelis are, essentially, bigots, the Palestinians' response is reasonable and justified.

We assume using our Americanness that all the Middle East needs is a good dose of Ameircan pluralism and all will be OK. The rest of the world doesn't work that way. It just doesn't.

The Middle East has been a tribal intersection for so many different peoples over time that there's bound to be fighting. Each of these tribes wants the Holy Land (aka, greater Israel) as its tribal homeland. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Romans, Turks, Persians and only God knows how many other tribes have fought over it. Read your Bible and you'll see the battles between the Israelites and just about every invading horde known to ancient times. Even Jesus' Crucifixition illustrated some of the tensions between confliucting tribes (Romans and Jews).

That's why the whole notion that the Palestinians are angry because they've been excluded from full citizenship in Israel is sheer nonsense. It's also why the notion of a comprehensive Middle East peace between Palestinian and Jew will never happen. Hamas and Hezbollah will never be happy until the last Jew has been killed and they're in control of what is now Israel. Nor will their masters in Iran!

This is 100% correct, and I'll add

The conceit that most of the pro-Palestinian crowd here has (Galway, Hards. 21jump, Jockey, Brew, etc) starts with the assumption that everyone thinks like them. They think everyone wants the same things they do.

They do not.

Palestinians want one thing: the slaughter and elimination of all Jews.


Senior Hamas official Ali Baraka gave an interview yesterday and laid it all out yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzZsms0LJWQ

Transcript of what he said (my emphasis)

"In the past couple of years, Hamas has adopted a 'rational' approach. It did not go into any war, and did not join the Islamic Jihad in its recent battle," Ali Baraka said in an interview that ran on Russia Today and was translated by Memri. "We made them think that Hamas was busy with governing Gaza, and that it wanted to focus on the 2.5 million Palestinians there, and has abandoned the resistance altogether. All the while, under the table, Hamas was preparing for this big attack."

There you have it. They pretended to give a sh!t about the Palestinians in Gaza. But in reality, their own leadership does not.

They only care about one thing ... killing Jews.

----

The Palestinians have a different value system, so different that intellectuals in the West cannot understand it.  What Palestinians want is for their children to achieve martyrdom. They want their children to die. More importantly, they want them to be martyrs at the hands of the Israelis.

So they put their weapons in the basement of hospitals. They hide their rockets in schools and want the Israelis to kill their children.

They want this so the Galway, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty, etc, can then blame Israel for the death of Palestinian children. And man, does this board show how many have bought into this!

The leadership of Hamas banks on the idea that 21Jump, Hards, Jockey, etc, are incapable of understanding why Palestinians would do this (because it goes against their values), so they will conclude it must be wrong. And if it is wrong, Israel has to be at fault.

This is why Gaza and the West Bank are apartheid states. The Palestinians are so evil no one wants them. By no one, I mean the other Arab states.

Jordan took the Palestinians in the 1960s, leading to Black September in 1970 when the PLO and Arafat took over. And when they did, they ruined everything. Because, again, Palestinian leadership does not care about their children or the betterment of their populations. They only care about killing Jews.

Why do you think the Iranians, the Egyptians (who border Gaza), the Saudis, and the other rich oil states in the Arab World will not take their "brothers" from Palestinians as refugees?  Because they know the Palestinians are evil and want nothing to do with them.

----

I understand many of you will find this harsh. That is largely because you cannot comprehend the evil of Hamas and Hezbollah. The Palestinian leadership knows Western supporters will not comprehend, so they can repeatedly say this.

You will not believe them, but you will attack me for telling you what they say, believing what they say, and not running it through a "what Westerns want" filter to distort into some moral equivalence.

In the last week, I have never seen so much anti-Semitism, so much excusing evil. Much of it is on the board affiliated with a Jesuit University.


So yes, the Israelis will exercise their right to defend themselves, and it will not be pretty to look at. And the fault for what happens next is 100% on Hamas. And when Palestinian parents run their Children into the Israeli bullets, your anti-sematic complaints will fall on deaf ears.

It was true 50 years ago and is more true than ever today.

"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
-- Golda Mier

(https://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/palestinian.way.of.war.gif)

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:22:47 PM
This is 100% correct, and I'll add

The conceit that most of the pro-Palestinian crowd here has (Galway, Hards. 21jump, Jockey, Brew, etc) starts with the assumption that everyone thinks like them. They think everyone wants the same things they do.

They do not.

Palestinians want one thing: the slaughter and elimination of all Jews.


Senior Hamas official Ali Baraka gave an interview yesterday and laid it all out yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzZsms0LJWQ

Transcript of what he said (my emphasis)

"In the past couple of years, Hamas has adopted a 'rational' approach. It did not go into any war, and did not join the Islamic Jihad in its recent battle," Ali Baraka said in an interview that ran on Russia Today and was translated by Memri. "We made them think that Hamas was busy with governing Gaza, and that it wanted to focus on the 2.5 million Palestinians there, and has abandoned the resistance altogether. All the while, under the table, Hamas was preparing for this big attack."

There you have it. They pretended to give a sh!t about the Palestinians in Gaza. But in reality, their own leadership does not.

They only care about one thing ... killing Jews.

----

The Palestinians have a different value system, so different that intellectuals in the West cannot understand it.  What Palestinians want is for their children to achieve martyrdom. They want their children to die. More importantly, they want them to be martyrs at the hands of the Israelis.

So they put their weapons in the basement of hospitals. They hide their rockets in schools and want the Israelis to kill their children.

They want this so the Galway, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty, etc, can then blame Israel for the death of Palestinian children. And man, does this board show how many have bought into this!

The leadership of Hamas banks on the idea that 21Jump, Hards, Jockey, etc, are incapable of understanding why Palestinians would do this (because it goes against their values), so they will conclude it must be wrong. And if it is wrong, Israel has to be at fault.

This is why Gaza and the West Bank are apartheid states. The Palestinians are so evil no one wants them. By no one, I mean the other Arab states.

Jordan took the Palestinians in the 1960s, leading to Black September in 1970 when the PLO and Arafat took over. And when they did, they ruined everything. Because, again, Palestinian leadership does not care about their children or the betterment of their populations. They only care about killing Jews.

Why do you think the Iranians, the Egyptians (who border Gaza), the Saudis, and the other rich oil states in the Arab World will not take their "brothers" from Palestinians as refugees?  Because they know the Palestinians are evil and want nothing to do with them.

----

I understand many of you will find this harsh. That is largely because you cannot comprehend the evil of Hamas and Hezbollah. The Palestinian leadership knows Western supporters will not comprehend, so they can repeatedly say this.

You will not believe them, but you will attack me for telling you what they say, believing what they say, and not running it through a "what Westerns want" filter to distort into some moral equivalence.

In the last week, I have never seen so much anti-Semitism, so much excusing evil. Much of it is on the board affiliated with a Jesuit University.


So yes, the Israelis will exercise their right to defend themselves, and it will not be pretty to look at. And the fault for what happens next is 100% on Hamas. And when Palestinian parents run their Children into the Israeli bullets, your anti-sematic complaints will fall on deaf ears.

It was true 50 years ago and is more true than ever today.

"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
-- Golda Mier

(https://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/palestinian.way.of.war.gif)

Can you find a quote from someone here saying Hamas isn't evil?  Thanks in advance

Serious man calls people antisemites while simultaneously composing another long screed full of lazy stereotypes.

At this point, it's merely parody.

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 12, 2023, 07:28:22 PM
Can you find a quote from someone here saying Hamas isn't evil?  Thanks in advance

You may be better off leaving this thread to go over the AL and talk about tomorrow's open practice.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 12, 2023, 07:30:14 PM
Serious man calls people antisemites while simultaneously composing another long screed full of lazy stereotypes.

At this point, it's merely parody.

So says the guy with an Arab handle

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:30:57 PM

You may be better off leaving this thread to go over the AL and talk about tomorrow's open practice.

I'll take that as a no.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:31:59 PM
So says the guy with an Arab handle

Yes.  And?

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 12, 2023, 07:32:08 PM
I'll take that as a no.

Yeah, he's been challenged on this point multiple times since he started this topic and hasn't been able to do it.

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 12, 2023, 07:32:08 PM
I'll take that as a no.

I gave you a quote from a leader of Hamas yesterday that says he does not care about his people.

But, hey, I understand it is very hard for you to comprehend some people do not think like you.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:35:03 PM
I gave you a quote from a leader of Hamas yesterday that says he does not care about his people.

But, hey, I understand it is very hard for you to comprehend some people do not think like you.

That's not what he asked for.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:22:47 PM
This is 100% correct, and I'll add

The conceit that most of the pro-Palestinian crowd here has (Galway, Hards. 21jump, Jockey, Brew, etc) starts with the assumption that everyone thinks like them. They think everyone wants the same things they do.

They do not.

Palestinians want one thing: the slaughter and elimination of all Jews.


(https://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/palestinian.way.of.war.gif)

Ban this guy. This is such a horesh!t statement.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 12, 2023, 07:36:23 PM
That's not what he asked for.

Since you know what he wants, you do it.

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 12, 2023, 07:36:48 PM
Ban this guy. This is such a horesh!t statement.

explain why?

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 12, 2023, 07:34:05 PM
Yes.  And?

Yeah, he's been challenged on this point multiple times since he started this topic and hasn't been able to do it.

If anyone here isn't calling Hamas evil, they're wrong and should be called out.  I just haven't seen it.

I also agree that if your pro-Hamas and advertise that and angry that possible employers won't hire you, tough sh(i)t. 

I also think this is worth reading

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Yitzhak_Rabin

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 12, 2023, 07:36:48 PM
Ban this guy. This is such a horesh!t statement.

This is exactly what I was referring to

Law can comprehend things that go against his values. So, therefore, they are not true.

But Law needs someone to blame. So, he blames the victim of the slaughter.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:35:03 PM
I gave you a quote from a leader of Hamas yesterday that says he does not care about his people.

But, hey, I understand it is very hard for you to comprehend some people do not think like you.

You're calling people posting here anti-semites because they are pro-Palestinian and think they support Hamas based on your recent rant.  Please show me the posts supporting Hamas

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 12, 2023, 07:40:18 PM
If anyone here isn't calling Hamas evil, they're wrong and should be called out.  I just haven't seen it.

I also agree that if your pro-Hamas and advertise that and angry that possible employers won't hire you, tough sh(i)t. 

I also think this is worth reading

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Yitzhak_Rabin

Very good!

But go to the next part ... those that equate a moral equivalence are wrong.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:37:08 PM
Since you know what he wants, you do it.

That's weak even for you.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:40:55 PM
This is exactly what I was referring to

Law can comprehend things that go against his values. So, therefore, they are not true.

But Law needs someone to blame. So, he blames the victim of the slaughter.

I try not to make personal attacks on people, so I'll leave that alone.  I know plenty of Palestinians who want nothing more than peace, and a place they can call home, with running water, fresh air, and not having cancer causing chemicals in everything around them. Who do they blame? They blame the leaders of both sides. The Palestinian citizen is a pawn in this.

Here's an interesting poll:
https://www.usip.org/blog/2023/01/how-do-israeli-and-palestinian-youth-view-prospects-peace (https://www.usip.org/blog/2023/01/how-do-israeli-and-palestinian-youth-view-prospects-peace)

Guess who supports Hamas?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:43:09 PM
Very good!

But go to the next part ... those that equate a moral equivalence are wrong.

They're not anti-semites for pointing out a sovereign state has made mistakes in how they've handled things.  They're not anti-semites for not wanting to send American troops to another war.  They're not anti-semites for pointing out the colossal failure of Israel security services this past weekend

Quote from: Pakuni on October 12, 2023, 01:36:58 PM
We have the presumptive GOP presidential candidate and party leader praising terrorists as "smart people" and victim-blaming the Israelis.
A Republican U.S. Senator is saying we shouldn't pick sides.
The most popular media figure on the right is questioning America's support for Israel.
All of which you remain silent on.
But Bernie Sanders saying, "Maybe let's not kill innocent civilians" is something you find offensive?
Character revealed.

Instead of pulling us together, the Republican infrastructure is trying to pull us apart. 

Hmmmmm......

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 12, 2023, 07:44:59 PM
I try not to make personal attacks on people, so I'll leave that alone.  I know plenty of Palestinians who want nothing more than peace, and a place they can call home, with running water, fresh air, and not having cancer causing chemicals in everything around them. Who do they blame? They blame the leaders of both sides. The Palestinian citizen is a pawn in this.

Here's an interesting poll:
https://www.usip.org/blog/2023/01/how-do-israeli-and-palestinian-youth-view-prospects-peace (https://www.usip.org/blog/2023/01/how-do-israeli-and-palestinian-youth-view-prospects-peace)

You write this and then say it is not a personal attack?

Then what exactly is a personal attack???

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 12, 2023, 07:36:48 PM
Ban this guy. This is such a horesh!t statement.

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 12, 2023, 07:48:30 PM
They're not anti-semites for pointing out a sovereign state has made mistakes in how they've handled things.  They're not anti-semites for not wanting to send American troops to another war.  They're not anti-semites for pointing out the colossal failure of Israel security services this past weekend

Everyone makes mistakes.

It is about the Israeli's intentions versus Hamas's intentions.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 08:00:01 PM
Everyone makes mistakes.

It is about the Israeli's intentions versus Hamas's intentions.

Israel has every right to defend itself as a sovereign state and retaliate for the cowardly attack.  It doesn't make someone an anti-semite for wishing there was no more bloodshed and no more loss of innocent life.  It's not realistic and Hamas is to blame.  All of these things can be true

Quote from: SoCalEagle on October 12, 2023, 07:48:35 PM
Instead of pulling us together, the Republican infrastructure is trying to pull us apart. 

Hmmmmm......

Fortunately, they are showing leadership in the house of representatives.   

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:58:56 PM
You write this and then say it is not a personal attack?

Then what exactly is a personal attack???

A personal.attack would be calling you an unhinged lunatic who has the mental.capacity of a two year old. But I wouldnt do that.

Quote from: tower912 on October 12, 2023, 08:04:16 PM
Fortunately, they are showing leadership in the house of representatives.

I am not sure if this is sarcasm ... but the House went from bad to worse in the last hour

*SCALISE ENDS SPEAKER BID AS HOUSE REPUBLICANS REMAIN IN TURMOIL

No one has the votes and no one wants the job.

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 12, 2023, 08:03:41 PM
Israel has every right to defend itself as a sovereign state and retaliate for the cowardly attack.  It doesn't make someone an anti-semite for wishing there was no more bloodshed and no more loss of innocent life.  It's not realistic and Hamas is to blame.  All of these things can be true

100% agree

But not everyone here holds this opinion

Quote from: lawdog77 on October 12, 2023, 08:05:44 PM
A personal.attack would be calling you an unhinged lunatic who has the mental.capacity of a two year old. But I wouldnt do that.

weak and disappointing

Try this a personal attack would be to say, "I'm so stupid I would have sold Apple in 2016!"

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:22:47 PM

They do not.

Palestinians want one thing: the slaughter and elimination of all Jews.

This is all bigoted hateful nonsense. You don't have a goddamn clue what you are talking about. This is probably the most racist thing I've ever seen on this site, and that's saying something.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:22:47 PM

(https://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/palestinian.way.of.war.gif)

Why would you post a picture of an Israeli soldier aiming at a baby?

Quote from: brewcity77 on October 12, 2023, 08:16:12 PM
This is all bigoted hateful nonsense. You don't have a goddamn clue what you are talking about. This is probably the most racist thing I've ever seen on this site, and that's saying something.

It's quite something to see the casual racism branch off into genocidal racism

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 07:22:47 PM

Palestinians want one thing: the slaughter and elimination of all Jews.

Do you actually believe this? Or are you conflating Hamas and the Palestinian people as you bounce back and forth repeatedly in that post.

If it's the latter, it's a valid point though very sloppily made.  If it's the former, then it's unhinged in a way that even Muggsy's Iran plan hasn't touched

Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on October 12, 2023, 08:31:55 PM
It's quite something to see the casual racism branch off into genocidal racism

Yeah, that's not fair of Heisy--Muggsy had that position staked out first.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 08:08:50 PM
weak and disappointing

Try this a personal attack would be to say, "I'm so stupid I would have sold Apple in 2016!"

Who recommended selling Apple in 2016? That's just crazy. Everyone could see that 2016 was a great time to buy Apple.

Nevermind ....

Quote from: JWags85 on October 12, 2023, 03:41:45 PM
With all due respect, while I see what you're trying to convey, I fully disagree with this interpretation.

I don't view any PLO interludes around 1969 as compromise.  If Hamas this weekend said they'd be willing to accept a two state solution would we really view that as a compromise?  No it would seem like deception veiled in good faith negotiation.  It runs counter to everything they have ever said and stood for.  As I said, the PLO's attempt to compromise 20 years later, when they were less terrorist aimed than in the late 60s/70s still was caveating their ability to still attack Israel as much as they wanted.  No "compromise" by the PLO before they recognized Israel or its right to exist should ever be considered a compromise that was turned down.  It's just a demand

Rodger's plan is a bit more of an argument I can see, but that came out of nowhere with little to no collaboration between the affected nations and surprised everyone and was thus rejected outright. 

Sure it's revisionist history in a way, but I truly believe Golda Meir would have accepted a two state solution of the variety we have mentioned in modern times, but you have a vastly different Arab world (namely 180 degree flips in Jordan and Egypt's attitude and relationship to Israel and the West).  You talk of rejected compromise from a time and "Palestinian" collective who didn't recognize Israel or it's legitimacy.

I appreciate and understand your overall statement. I disagree with the bolded though. Gold Meir would never accept anything that didn't give Israel full control over Jerusalem. That has been a sticking point forever, and isn't going away.

That is why, technically the PLO's plan in 1969 was probably the only time a viable plan was on the table (and I agree and understand why you say it wasn't a viable deal, because of the history of violence by the PLO). But that plan was binational and allowed everyone equal access and control over Jerusalem, and in theory could have appeased everyone. But in that, and the Rodger's plan, Israel would not give up full control over Jerusalem.

As things currently stand. Israel will not give up their capital as Jerusalem. They likely won't give up their illegally built settlements, and they have refused to have any deal that doesn't involve the permanent disarmament of any Palestinian state.

Given the history of violence in the region, I don't fault Palestinians for wanting their own defense force (not Hamas, they are terrorists...just a legitimate military force), and the Palestinians aren't accepting a deal where they don't still have East Jerusalem, and get the illegally occupied land back.

So we will never have a deal. And we will continue to have violence.

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on October 12, 2023, 08:05:56 PM
I am not sure if this is sarcasm ... but the House went from bad to worse in the last hour

*SCALISE ENDS SPEAKER BID AS HOUSE REPUBLICANS REMAIN IN TURMOIL

No one has the votes and no one wants the job.

The classy leaders of the party, including You Know Who, said Scalise isn't fit to be speaker because he has cancer. Nice.

So I've learned that Scoop is not going to solve peace in the Middle East.

Good effort everyone.

Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 12, 2023, 10:09:17 PM
So I've learned that Scoop is not going to solve peace in the Middle East.

Good effort everyone.

Muggsy's got a plan.

Seems our resident BLM (hamas)sympathizer has been sitting this one(wisely) out  Not a good look to be on the fence here as seen by many throughout  it didn't take a very wise person to see that was going to be a losing proposition especially as the cash was buying mansions, paying for security and salaries of their peeps while those "black lives" didn't seem to matter after all.  I've heard Crow tastes a little bit like road kill chicken eyna?

Quote from: Pakuni on October 12, 2023, 10:10:37 PM
Muggsy's got a plan.

Muggsy for Secretary-General of the United Nations!

Let's see if they move  ... and if they don't move, who is at fault over what comes next?

Israel Latest: UN Staff Given Evacuation Order for Northern Gaza
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-12/israel-latest-gaza-ground-offensive-looms-more-than-2-400-dead

Israeli's armed forces have told the United Nations to evacuate its personnel from northern Gaza, indicating a ground operation could be coming soon in retaliation for an attack by the militant group that killed at least 1,200 people.

Israel's military has positioned about 300,000 personnel outside Gaza and signaled a major ground offensive could be imminent as it seeks to "wipe out" the militant group for the attack.

More than 1.1 million Palestinians live in the area flagged by Israel, it said, adding, "The United Nations considers it impossible for such a movement to take place without devastating humanitarian consequences."

Quote from: brewcity77 on October 12, 2023, 08:16:12 PM
This is all bigoted hateful nonsense. You don't have a goddamn clue what you are talking about. This is probably the most racist thing I've ever seen on this site, and that's saying something.

The conceit of only believing this you agree with.
Understand who we are dealing with ... you really want to get this upset over calling out Jew killers?


The Palestinian Incentive Program for Killing Jews
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-07-01/the-palestinian-incentive-program-for-killing-jews

Whoever said crime doesn't pay hasn't talked to the family of a Palestinian terrorist. For the Palestine Liberation Organization and the related Palestinian Authority, the killers of Jewish Israelis are considered "martyrs." And as such, their families are paid for the service these murderers have done for the Palestinian cause.

This has come to light this week after a Palestinian, Mohammed Tarayra, stabbed Hallel Yaffa Ariel, a 13-year-old Israeli girl, as she was sleeping in her bed. The stabbing was part of a wave of attacks by Palestinians who have for nearly eight months been shooting, stabbing and running down Jews with the encouragement of social media and popular songs.

----

It even has its own Wiki, and no, this is not some fringe thing ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund

In 2016, payments were made to 35,000 families, including the families of suicide bombers, from a 2016 annual budget of $170 million.

------

And they teach their children in school how to be Martyrs

Palestinian kindergarten films its kids play-clashing with IDF, becoming 'martyrs'
Footage, said to have been taken down several times by TikTok, also shows children pretending to foil army raid by killing soldiers
https://www.timesofisrael.com/kids-in-palestinian-kindergarten-filmed-play-clashing-with-idf-becoming-martyrs/

A West Bank kindergarten has published videos showing children pretending to perform military drills with toy guns, clashing with and killing Israeli soldiers, and holding a mock funeral for a child who is killed and becomes a "martyr."

The children are then shown performing a funeral procession for the Palestinian "martyr," with one of them acting the role of the slain fighter.

In other videos, masked children are shown training and marching with toy guns.