Backlash Coming

[The Sultan]

Why don't y'all antisemites stand up, say it loud, and be counted. Don't hide behind some bullchit rhetoric and think you're outsmarting the rest of us. Not hard to read between the lines here, aina?

The idea that the world is full of shades of gray is difficult for you ai''na?

[Jockey]

The idea that the world is full of shades of gray is difficult for you ai''na?

2 + 2 is way easier than trig.

[Hards Alumni]

Why don't y'all antisemites stand up, say it loud, and be counted. Don't hide behind some bullchit rhetoric and think you're outsmarting the rest of us. Not hard to read between the lines here, aina?

I don't see any antisemitism here.  Just people decrying the violence caused by both sides of the conflict.

The state of Israel isn't beyond reproach for its actions.  They're war crimes no matter who is committing them.

[Galway Eagle]

"Both sides have good and bad people" said about American guys with nazi flags, confederate flags, and running over a counter protestor = Makes sense

"Both sides have done terrible things" about our ally's nationalist party continued subhuman treatment of Palestinians and a terrorist group's heinous actions = anti semites.

Do I have this right?

[Uncle Rico]

"Both sides have good and bad people" said about American guys with nazi flags, confederate flags, and running over a counter protestor = Makes sense

"Both sides have done terrible things" about our ally's nationalist party and a terrorist group = anti semites.

Do I have this right?

Pretty much. 

[Shaka Shart]

"Both sides have good and bad people" said about American guys with nazi flags, confederate flags, and running over a counter protestor = Makes sense

"Both sides have done terrible things" about our ally's nationalist party continued subhuman treatment of Palestinians and a terrorist group's heinous actions = anti semites.

Do I have this right?

Nailed it

[4everwarriors]

So far 6 have happily identified themselves. Step up and be heard, hey?

[Hards Alumni]

So far 6 have happily identified themselves. Step up and be heard, hey?

If you criticize Israel at all you are an antisemite.  -  4elder

Says a bit more about you to believe such a thing.

[Pakuni]

So far 6 have happily identified themselves. Step up and be heard, hey?

[Uncle Rico]

So far 6 have happily identified themselves. Step up and be heard, hey?

This is why religion is the most dangerous thing throughout history.  Reasonable criticism of Israel is considered anti-semitism.

Since I find all religion folly, then yes, I guess I'm an anti-semite.

[4everwarriors]

Now 7. C'mon now, say it, say proud, hey?

[Galway Eagle]

So far 6 have happily identified themselves. Step up and be heard, hey?

The great irony here is we've seen you for years complain that your "opinions"  get called racist and/or homophobic and/or misogynistic then we've seen you rant about the hypocrisy of a "tolerant left". But now you turn around and are doing the same thing. It's very similar to Heisenberg's "you can't tolerate other world views and demonize others" then turns around and calls everybody Jew haters when nobody espoused anything remotely akin to that.

[JWags85]

The post was in part a counter to people who were saying that since 1948, the Palestinians refused any solutions that didn't result in the expulsion of all Jews from Israel. It was an example of times where they were willing to compromise.

It was also motivated by Heisy posting about the leader of Israel at the time, who said that there wouldn't be peace because of the Palestinians, when meanwhile that same leader refused both the PLO offer, and the Rodger's plan.

Frankly I wouldn't have expected a solution then, and I don't expect a solution now, because the people making decisions tend closer to the religious fundamentalist side, where anything besides them getting 100% of what they want is a no deal. That's why there has never been as solution, and there continues to be violence.

With all due respect, while I see what you're trying to convey, I fully disagree with this interpretation.

I don't view any PLO interludes around 1969 as compromise.  If Hamas this weekend said they'd be willing to accept a two state solution would we really view that as a compromise?  No it would seem like deception veiled in good faith negotiation.  It runs counter to everything they have ever said and stood for.  As I said, the PLO's attempt to compromise 20 years later, when they were less terrorist aimed than in the late 60s/70s still was caveating their ability to still attack Israel as much as they wanted.  No "compromise" by the PLO before they recognized Israel or its right to exist should ever be considered a compromise that was turned down.  It's just a demand

Rodger's plan is a bit more of an argument I can see, but that came out of nowhere with little to no collaboration between the affected nations and surprised everyone and was thus rejected outright. 

Sure it's revisionist history in a way, but I truly believe Golda Meir would have accepted a two state solution of the variety we have mentioned in modern times, but you have a vastly different Arab world (namely 180 degree flips in Jordan and Egypt's attitude and relationship to Israel and the West).  You talk of rejected compromise from a time and "Palestinian" collective who didn't recognize Israel or it's legitimacy.

[Uncle Rico]

The great irony here is we've seen you for years complain that your "opinions"  get called racist and/or homophobic and/or misogynistic then we've seen you rant about the hypocrisy of a "tolerant left". But now you turn around and are doing the same thing. It's very similar to Heisenberg's "you can't tolerate other world views and demonize others" then turns around and calls everybody Jew haters when nobody espoused anything remotely akin to that.

Yesterday, he said democrats are the greatest threat to America.  He's obviously unhinged and lost to the morass of right wing nut jobs.  It's pretty sad because he's obviously smarter than that but it's not an odd phenomena in America anymore.  30 years of Fox and right wing radio has rotted the minds of many smart Americans. 

He was convinced the American response would be muted from the administration and since it wasn't, we're the next targets of his unhinged rage against modern America and reasonable discourse that was happening here. 

You can say you agree with Israel defending itself while bemoaning the results of what will occur until your blue in the face and he'll think your anti-Semitic.  So what? 

[JWags85]

The great irony here is we've seen you for years complain that your "opinions"  get called racist and/or homophobic and/or misogynistic then we've seen you rant about the hypocrisy of a "tolerant left". But now you turn around and are doing the same thing. It's very similar to Heisenberg's "you can't tolerate other world views and demonize others" then turns around and calls everybody Jew haters when nobody espoused anything remotely akin to that.

The irony for me is that people complain that the "racist" tag is overused and far too often thrown around these days, which I think is actually a valid complaint.  Calling someone racist for having a viewpoint on race or the actions of someone of a different ethnicity (or sometimes just a racially insensitive remark) downplays and cheapens the actual insidious racism that is far too prevalent. If everyone is a racist then the true POS racists are just like everyone else, exaggerated or whatnot.

But that same group is now throwing anti-Semitism around haphazardly.  And the same issues with that ham-handed labeling exists.

There are plenty of people I strongly disagree with in regards to their Israel stance, but that doesn't mean their are anti-Semites (I mean Bernie, come on.  I've agreed with like 2% of everything he's done as a politician but that's just laughable).  There are some people in US government I truly feel are anti-Semitic (and no I don't mean 82's fav president) but that's far different than people with opposing thoughts like those here.

FWIW, I also think there is a difference between egregious Palestinian apologists and anti-Semities as well

[Uncle Rico]

Found a couple of anti-semites

https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1711496189323952185?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q

[Heisenberg]

They're not antisemitic talking points.  I'm not justifying any slaughter of innocent Jewish people.  I've said Hamas' attack is disgusting.  Your emotions frequently get in the way of your comprehension. 

I stated that anyone backed into a corner is going to fight back eventually.  That's called reality.  Look no further than the heroes of the Warsaw ghetto that fought back violently by any means necessary.  These men had nothing but pistols and improvised explosives. 

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/warsaw-ghetto-uprising

I have not once condoned any actions by either side.  I've said repeatedly they are BOTH grotesque.  Meanwhile, you can't even admit that the nation of Israel's actions leading up to this are sickening.  And that their actions since the terrorist attacks are gross.  Leveling entire city blocks filled with civilians is despicable.  Targetting ambulances and hospitals should evoke something inside you besides indifference.  But somehow it doesn't. 

Kinda weird, man.

Hamas was not backed into the corner. They planned this for two years. It was intentional and premeditated.

[21Jumpstreet]

So far 6 have happily identified themselves. Step up and be heard, hey?

C'mon 4E, you can't stand this sentiment around here. Maybe you're making a point about how you're treated here, if that's the case, it's a point well made. Bullying is bullying. Dismissive is dismissive. Judgement is judgement.

I don't know much about it yet, but there is an opinion that conflating antisemitism and anti-Zionism is harmful to the Jews, that it brings about even more hatred and heinous treatment of Jews. It actually said that equating the two is in itself antisemitic. I don't know about that, just mentioning it was in the piece. To be clear, I read this for the first time today in The Georgetown Voice as I was googling the relationship between the two ideas.

It admittedly writes opinions through a "liberal light" so take that for what it's worth. I don't know what that means, but in today's made up ideological spectrum it probably means not conservative as it seems to be defined today. I have definitely read plenty that says anti-Zionism is antisemitism, and often times it is depending on context and words. This is why it's complicated, in my opinion.

So, actually, you're not totally wrong when you say anti-Zionism is antisemitic, it's just a very black and white, non-nuanced, unfair in my opinion viewpoint. Kinda the viewpoint you rightfully loathe that pops up here on the daily. We all like to "frame" our arguments and opinions, we all like to simplify difficult topics, we all like to pick and choose words and ideas that seem to then create an often misguided singular, narrow thought. We all do it.

[21Jumpstreet]

Hamas was not backed into the corner. They planned this for two years. It was intentional and premeditated.

Yes they have been, doesn't excuse the actions. Yes they have been. Yes it was.

[Heisenberg]

Hyperbolic nonsense.

A guy with an Arab reference in his handle is downplaying the significance of what happened this last week.

(Hyperbolic above, an overreaction in two previous posts).

Don't worry .. the anti-semite wing of the "circle" will defend you.

[The Sultan]

A guy with an Arab reference in his handle is downplaying the significance of what happened this last week.

I have never downplayed what happened last week and you know that.

And lol on the sultan reference. Your desperation is amusing.

[Hards Alumni]

A guy with an Arab reference in his handle is downplaying the significance of what happened this last week.

(Hyperbolic above, an overreaction in two previous posts).

Don't worry .. the anti-semite wing of the "circle" will defend you.

laff

[Hards Alumni]

Hamas was not backed into the corner. They planned this for two years. It was intentional and premeditated.

The assumption being here that they were backed into a corner recently instead of the last two decades.  You have a very tenuous grasp of history.

I wish you the best.

[JWags85]

Yes they have been, doesn't excuse the actions. Yes they have been. Yes it was.

Small point of contention.  I don't agree Hamas was backed into a corner.  I could concede Palestinians were back into a corner...which Hamas then used to support/justify/fuel their objections and desires

[WellsstreetWanderer]

The assumption being here that they were backed into a corner recently instead of the last two decades.  You have a very tenuous grasp of history.

I wish you the best.

    Palestinians could have had a separate state decades ago but chose Hamas who is hate  personified
    What's missing in the discussion is how many Israeli Muslims are very happy to live freely and unencumbered to pursue happiness. Contrast that with Hamas spending the money nations donate on tunnels and rockets instead of helping their people.