MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: tower912 on August 08, 2016, 09:06:44 AM
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The middle aged cynics here, including myself, have had negative things to say about the Olympics leading up to them. Rio's struggles, zika, Russian doping.... pick anything. But then..... my 9 year old is currently yelling at the TV during the USA women's field hockey game. He has been begging to stay up extra late to watch anything Olympics. He is wondering when the fencing is coming on. This cynic found himself aching yesterday as the USA's female cyclist got chased down in the last 1/2 km.
So, yes, there are certainly things we can all criticize and nitpick. And we will. But don't forget what the GAMES are all about.
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The middle aged cynics here, including myself, have had negative things to say about the Olympics leading up to them. Rio's struggles, zika, Russian doping.... pick anything. But then..... my 9 year old is currently yelling at the TV during the USA women's field hockey game. He has been begging to stay up extra late to watch anything Olympics. He is wondering when the fencing is coming on. This cynic found himself aching yesterday as the USA's female cyclist got chased down in the last 1/2 km.
So, yes, there are certainly things we can all criticize and nitpick. And we will. But don't forget what the GAMES are all about.
My 13 year wanted to stay up to watch Michael Phelps last night. I didn't even make it that far.
The end of that women's bike race yesterday was very compelling. The American rider had nothing left at the end. As was the men's marathon ride the day before.
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The middle aged cynics here, including myself, have had negative things to say about the Olympics leading up to them. Rio's struggles, zika, Russian doping.... pick anything. But then..... my 9 year old is currently yelling at the TV during the USA women's field hockey game. He has been begging to stay up extra late to watch anything Olympics. He is wondering when the fencing is coming on. This cynic found himself aching yesterday as the USA's female cyclist got chased down in the last 1/2 km.
So, yes, there are certainly things we can all criticize and nitpick. And we will. But don't forget what the GAMES are all about.
Which is all very true and exactly why I criticize the adults in charge of the Olympics. We don't need grand spectacles and revolutionary facilities....just make sure the venues are effective and built for the function and that the games are put on in a safe and well televised manner and the athletes will do the rest. You could cut the budget of putting on the games in half and you would see no drop off in ratings or revenue IMO.
By the way, was anyone else watching real time when the Dutch rider crashed yesterday? We were watching and I was convinced at the time that she was dead, especially when I saw the camera angle from Mara Abbot's chase vehicle as she rode by.....lucky she's ok.
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Which is all very true and exactly why I criticize the adults in charge of the Olympics. We don't need grand spectacles and revolutionary facilities....just make sure the venues are effective and built for the function and that the games are put on in a safe and well televised manner and the athletes will do the rest. You could cut the budget of putting on the games in half and you would see no drop off in ratings or revenue IMO.
By the way, was anyone else watching real time when the Dutch rider crashed yesterday? We were watching and I was convinced at the time that she was dead, especially when I saw the camera angle from Mara Abbot's chase vehicle as she rode by.....lucky she's ok.
I've been one of the biggest critics of giving Rio the bid. I was seriously planning on boycotting them by not watching but here I am at 9am watching. I love the Olympics and I was always gonna get sucked back in.
Both road races were brutal. I was sad when the Colombian fell in the men's and when Abbott got chased down. I legitimately thought the Dutch girl was dead too. Over the handle bars right on her neck and she still wasn't moving when Abbott passed her. I actually thought I just saw someone die on live TV.
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Which is all very true and exactly why I criticize the adults in charge of the Olympics. We don't need grand spectacles and revolutionary facilities....just make sure the venues are effective and built for the function and that the games are put on in a safe and well televised manner and the athletes will do the rest. You could cut the budget of putting on the games in half and you would see no drop off in ratings or revenue IMO.
It's more difficult to bribe people that way.
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If we saw another country's athlete - especially a Russian - dominate as much as Ledecky, would we be cheering/celebrating? Or even appreciating a dominant performance? Or would we jump to doping/PEDs?
Just an interesting dichotomy that comes up from time to time in sports.
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If we saw another country's athlete - especially a Russian - dominate as much as Ledecky, would we be cheering/celebrating? Or even appreciating a dominant performance? Or would we jump to doping/PEDs?
Just an interesting dichotomy that comes up from time to time in sports.
I understand your point, but by that logic we have to assume that anyone that was better than everyone else is doping. Are the female American gymists doping because they are so much better than the rest of the field? I think you are right that theres where some would go but is that because us mere mortals can't grasp what we are seeing?
One thing that is crazy to me, and I think it's a testimony to technology and the evolution of human beings is how all of these world records are constantly broken and replaced. At some point there has to be a world record that can't ever be broken, right?
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If we saw another country's athlete - especially a Russian - dominate as much as Ledecky, would we be cheering/celebrating? Or even appreciating a dominant performance? Or would we jump to doping/PEDs?
Just an interesting dichotomy that comes up from time to time in sports.
My wife thinks this about any athlete that dominates ever since the Floyd Landis Tour stage where he just killed everyone.
Personally, it doesn't ruin the experience for me and I don't think ill of any specific athlete until proven otherwise. However, you can't help but have the question pop into your head after so many have been proven dopers.
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One thing that is crazy to me, and I think it's a testimony to technology and the evolution of human beings is how all of these world records are constantly broken and replaced. At some point there has to be a world record that can't ever be broken, right?
The technology-driven training has to eventually reach its peak (doesn't it?).
I remember as a kid when professional athletes didn't even do weight training. They thought they would get "muscle bound" and that it would inhibit their actual athletic skills on the field. The only training for baseball players, for example, was playing baseball.
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Ratings are down 28% from 2012. Hopefully, they stay down and force some change from the most corrupt organization in the world not named FIFA.
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One thing that is crazy to me, and I think it's a testimony to technology and the evolution of human beings is how all of these world records are constantly broken and replaced. At some point there has to be a world record that can't ever be broken, right?
There is an intriguing story I heard on NPR a few months ago where they tried to break-down the difference between Jesse Owens and Usain Bolt. Their findings was that the delta is mainly explained by track improvements and improved shoes. The difference between the two in straight performance is less than you would imagine (barely discernible when represented by a tone).
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There is an intriguing story I heard on NPR a few months ago where they tried to break-down the difference between Jesse Owens and Usain Bolt. Their findings was that the delta is mainly explained by track improvements and improved shoes. The difference between the two in straight performance is less than you would imagine (barely discernible when represented by a tone).
I'd love to hear that, let's see what google comes up with :)
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Ratings are down 28% from 2012. Hopefully, they stay down and force some change from the most corrupt organization in the world not named FIFA.
NBC?
All kidding aside, I think the ratings can be attributed to three things.
1. These games have a black mark on them right now.
2. The way NBC televises them. They are getting better with more live events, but the tape-delay stuff is still a problem.
3. The decreasing importance of the Olympics in our collective minds. The Olympics used to be huge. Mainly because you get to see sports on the television for days straight. Now that has all changed and for many the Olympics are on the outside.
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If we saw another country's athlete - especially a Russian - dominate as much as Ledecky, would we be cheering/celebrating? Or even appreciating a dominant performance? Or would we jump to doping/PEDs?
Just an interesting dichotomy that comes up from time to time in sports.
I would say that Bolt certainly has been cheered, celebrated and appreciated by Olympic watchers here in America. But he is the exception, and I agree with the point you have suggested with your questions.
Compared to many countries, we are less jingoistic. But we are jingoistic, and our media is SOOO over the top sometimes that it almost makes me root against US athletes and teams.
As for Olympic spirit ...
It would be difficult to find a more cynical Olympic observer than I am. And yet I thought the U.S. swimmer who very excitedly celebrated getting a bronze medal in the breaststroke last night (Cody Miller) was genuine and kind of cool. A certain presidential candidate would have lambasted him for being a "loser," but Miller set an American record, he gave every ounce of effort he had, he won a medal and he was deservedly thrilled.
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NBC?
Awesome.
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NBC?
All kidding aside, I think the ratings can be attributed to three things.
1. These games have a black mark on them right now.
2. The way NBC televises them. They are getting better with more live events, but the tape-delay stuff is still a problem.
3. The decreasing importance of the Olympics in our collective minds. The Olympics used to be huge. Mainly because you get to see sports on the television for days straight. Now that has all changed and for many the Olympics are on the outside.
Comcast...?
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There is an intriguing story I heard on NPR a few months ago where they tried to break-down the difference between Jesse Owens and Usain Bolt. Their findings was that the delta is mainly explained by track improvements and improved shoes. The difference between the two in straight performance is less than you would imagine (barely discernible when represented by a tone).
Found this, not sure if it's related to the NPR story or not.....very interesting
https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_getting_faster_better_stronger?language=en (https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_getting_faster_better_stronger?language=en)
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IMO, the Olympics should be rotated between a handful of sites with a new site every 16 years.
Toyko, LA, Beijing, London, (new city), LA, Toyko, London, etc...
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Ratings are down 28% from 2012. Hopefully, they stay down and force some change from the most corrupt organization in the world not named FIFA.
I'm assuming those ratings don't include ratings for streaming?
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IMO, the Olympics should be rotated between a handful of sites with a new site every 16 years.
Toyko, LA, Beijing, London, (new city), LA, Toyko, London, etc...
I completely agree. I think you rotate the olympics every four years between 4 sites, siphon off revenues from each of those that fund the building of an olympics in a developing nation every 5th olympics.
I also think you hold the winter Olympics where they have, ya know, winter. Winter cities should be totally different than summer cities, but you would still have the same strategy.
So I would do something like this:
Summer venues: Beijing, Paris, LA, Sydney, Developing location (Africa or SA based probably)..repeat
Winter venues: Calgary, Innsbruck, Lillehammer, Tokyo, Rotating location(US, Russia, one of the Stans, etc.)..repeat
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Found this, not sure if it's related to the NPR story or not.....very interesting
https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_getting_faster_better_stronger?language=en (https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_getting_faster_better_stronger?language=en)
I think that was it -- they either played part of the ted talk or had it as a subset of what-ever they discussing.
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It would be difficult to find a more cynical Olympic observer than I am. And yet I thought the U.S. swimmer who very excitedly celebrated getting a bronze medal in the breaststroke last night (Cody Miller) was genuine and kind of cool. A certain presidential candidate would have lambasted him for being a "loser," but Miller set an American record, he gave every ounce of effort he had, he won a medal and he was deservedly thrilled.
I think he was super excited to set an American record. I was initially kind of puzzled cause he was more excited than Peaty who smashed everyone, but that made more sense when they announced he did that.
As for Ledecky, she's only 19 and has been on a pretty consistent upward trajectory for the last 4 years. A sudden explosion or change would be eyebrow raising, but much like Peaty from the UK in the breaststroke, nobody has been able to touch her for a few years and she's been consistently raising the bar since a very young age. Not to mentioning coming out of a historically strong swimming program with little scandal when it comes to doping.
Speaking of swimming and the amateur nature of the Olympics, really interesting articles around on Missy Franklin's "fall". Basically how the draconian structure of the NCAA makes it really hard to be a college student and not fall off from a peak if you reached that peak at a young age like she did.
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I completely agree. I think you rotate the olympics every four years between 4 sites, siphon off revenues from each of those that fund the building of an olympics in a developing nation every 5th olympics.
I also think you hold the winter Olympics where they have, ya know, winter. Winter cities should be totally different than summer cities, but you would still have the same strategy.
So I would do something like this:
Summer venues: Beijing, Paris, LA, Sydney, Developing location (Africa or SA based probably)..repeat
Winter venues: Calgary, Innsbruck, Lillehammer, Tokyo, Rotating location(US, Russia, one of the Stans, etc.)..repeat
Not a bad idea. I know I'm getting super nitpicky here but I'd probably go London for the European spot and Tokoyo for the Asia spot. IOC would never do it because $$$$$$ but it would really make things easier on countries.
I remember watching the Sydney games but don't remember the preceding months. (I was like 7) Was there criticism and backlash before those games? That was like the first time it hasn't been in a major European, American or Asian spot.
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Not a bad idea. I know I'm getting super nitpicky here but I'd probably go London for the European spot and Tokoyo for the Asia spot. IOC would never do it because $$$$$$ but it would really make things easier on countries.
I remember watching the Sydney games but don't remember the preceding months. (I was like 7) Was there criticism and backlash before those games? That was like the first time it hasn't been in a major European, American or Asian spot.
Beijing was considered the favorite going into the voting, but there was a concerted political effort in the US and in Western Europe to deny them the games based on the Tianaman Square aftermath. Beijing lead every round until the final one when Sydney won head-to-head.
But there was no criticisms that I recall about Sydney itself. I don't think it was controversial at all.
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I remember watching the Sydney games but don't remember the preceding months. (I was like 7) Was there criticism and backlash before those games? That was like the first time it hasn't been in a major European, American or Asian spot.
I don't recall there being a backlash but Sydney is also the world's 63rd largest city with a lot of space to put the games and significant infrastructure to support it. Sydney is comparable to DFW in physical size, density, and population. Sydney is also on the same time zone as Beijing.
I highly doubt there was any backlash to the Sydney games.
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Speaking of Cody Miller, being interviewed on NBCSN right now.
Edit, he's only 5'11" has asthma and has some sort of defect with his chest. Pretty damn impressive.
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I completely agree. I think you rotate the olympics every four years between 4 sites, siphon off revenues from each of those that fund the building of an olympics in a developing nation every 5th olympics.
I also think you hold the winter Olympics where they have, ya know, winter. Winter cities should be totally different than summer cities, but you would still have the same strategy.
So I would do something like this:
Summer venues: Beijing, Paris, LA, Sydney, Developing location (Africa or SA based probably)..repeat
Winter venues: Calgary, Innsbruck, Lillehammer, Tokyo, Rotating location(US, Russia, one of the Stans, etc.)..repeat
I used Toyko, because they're hosting 2020 already, but same thought. Paris/London whichever would be more successful long term. Africa has yet to have an Olympics and I don't think that'll change anytime soon.
For Winter Olympics, I wouldn't introduce a new city. Locations are pretty tight as it is. Two European, two North American (Vancouver & Salt Lake), and an Asian location.
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I completely agree. I think you rotate the olympics every four years between 4 sites, siphon off revenues from each of those that fund the building of an olympics in a developing nation every 5th olympics.
I also think you hold the winter Olympics where they have, ya know, winter. Winter cities should be totally different than summer cities, but you would still have the same strategy.
So I would do something like this:
Summer venues: Beijing, Paris, LA, Sydney, Developing location (Africa or SA based probably)..repeat
Winter venues: Calgary, Innsbruck, Lillehammer, Tokyo, Rotating location(US, Russia, one of the Stans, etc.)..repeat
What?!? No Lake Placid?
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I'm assuming those ratings don't include ratings for streaming?
Exactly. The ratings are pretty meaningless then.
Kinda like some groups that do polls for politics where they only call landlines. You risk leaving out an entire demographic.
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I think he was super excited to set an American record. I was initially kind of puzzled cause he was more excited than Peaty who smashed everyone, but that made more sense when they announced he did that.
Ultimately, every athlete is competing against themselves. The American swimmer was elated because he swam his best race ever on swimming's biggest stage.
In that particular race, no one had any chance whatsoever for the gold except for one guy. If they re-swam the race 100 times, he would win 99 for sure and probably #100 as well.
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I agree with the sentiment that Rio has just brought out into the open just how expensive it is to host the Olympics. I agree that the solution is to have a few venues that rotate for both summer and winter games. I was just having the same conversation at work yesterday. I would like one venue in each of Europe, Asia and the US. Tokyo is ideal for Asia, as it can host both the summer and winter games. Use the same Olympic village for each. I would be OK if Calgary was the venue for the 'US'. But Salt Lake and Lake Placid are good choices, too.
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I agree with the sentiment that Rio has just brought out into the open just how expensive it is to host the Olympics. I agree that the solution is to have a few venues that rotate for both summer and winter games. I was just having the same conversation at work yesterday. I would like one venue in each of Europe, Asia and the US. Tokyo is ideal for Asia, as it can host both the summer and winter games. Use the same Olympic village for each. I would be OK if Calgary was the venue for the 'US'. But Salt Lake and Lake Placid are good choices, too.
When you think about it, every Olympics has a legacy... some good, some bad, some neutral.
Barcelona had the Dream Team.
L.A. almost put Krusty Burger out of business.
Atlanta had the garbage can bomb.
Sarajevo was the first in a communist country.
Sochi was an unfinished boondoggle (close second was Costas' pink eye).
Louganis cracked his head open in Seoul.
Sydney had Phelps' Ocho.
But when you consider the four instances where NA has hosted a Winter Olympics, certainly four of the most significant (and positive) legacies:
Lake Placid had the Miracle on Ice.
Calgary had the Jamaican bobsledders.
Salt Lake City was the debut of the X-sports.
Vancouver was the coming of age party for the Russian Women's Curling Team.
In short... more North American Winter Olympics, please.
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Sarajevo was the first in a communist country.
Moscow, 1980.
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Moscow, 1980.
Sorry... first Winter Olympics. Even still, I think that's more significant than being Scott Hamilton's only Olympic gold.
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As for Olympic spirit ...
It would be difficult to find a more cynical Olympic observer than I am. And yet I thought the U.S. swimmer who very excitedly celebrated getting a bronze medal in the breaststroke last night (Cody Miller) was genuine and kind of cool. A certain presidential candidate would have lambasted him for being a "loser," but Miller set an American record, he gave every ounce of effort he had, he won a medal and he was deservedly thrilled.
This. I remember over the last two days stories on two other American swimmers.
One was the woman who this is her first and only Olympics before she starts her career, Maya DiRado. She's decided she's enjoyed competitive swimming, and is excited to take this one shot at the Olympics, but then she's going to focus on her career and other "life" things. (Obviously it helps she has a job offer at McKinsey). She won the Silver medal on Saturday and I remember her post-race interview being just glad she had the opportunity and excited to win Silver.
Then the other was Dana Vollmer. She took Bronze last night and her post-race interview she was just so excited to win Bronze and share the pool with the other Olympic swimmers.
It was really refreshing to see these individuals just excited to go out and compete and not be distraught by not winning it all. I don't fault anyone for being disappointed in not winning Gold, but its just nice to see these people just excited for the whole thing (and it doesn't hurt that they are bringing home some hardware)
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This. I remember over the last two days stories on two other American swimmers.
One was the woman who this is her first and only Olympics before she starts her career, Maya DiRado. She's decided she's enjoyed competitive swimming, and is excited to take this one shot at the Olympics, but then she's going to focus on her career and other "life" things. (Obviously it helps she has a job offer at McKinsey). She won the Silver medal on Saturday and I remember her post-race interview being just glad she had the opportunity and excited to win Silver.
Then the other was Dana Vollmer. She took Bronze last night and her post-race interview she was just so excited to win Bronze and share the pool with the other Olympic swimmers.
It was really refreshing to see these individuals just excited to go out and compete and not be distraught by not winning it all. I don't fault anyone for being disappointed in not winning Gold, but its just nice to see these people just excited for the whole thing (and it doesn't hurt that they are bringing home some hardware)
Partially tough in cheek......this is how you end up with millenials
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Compared to many countries, we are less jingoistic. But we are jingoistic, and our media is SOOO over the top sometimes that it almost makes me root against US athletes and teams.
Our media is completely ridiculous, and this NBC crew has been terrible. Two notes I'd like to point out from the opening ceremony.
- The amount of times Matt Lauer referred to Giselle as "Brazil's most famous export" as if she was some commodity that is sold. He must have said it at least 5 times
- When the parade of nations was going on, the NBC crew were giving little snippets about each team/nation. Obviously had more to say about certain countries depending on size, good stories, etc. But the country that came out right before the US, they said that they didn't want to overshadow them because of who's coming up next. That they deserve their minute of attention, etc. But then they never talked about the nation at all. They said all that stuff in the front, then went into talking about the US. Now I was glad to see the US come out (except that one exceptionally bro-y dude that was next to Phelps) and enjoyed listening to the commentary on the team, but I was kind of embarrassed the way they treated that other country (I can't even remember which one it was) after they said they were going to give them attention. Then on the other side, they couldn't stop talking about the US and must have skipped the next six countries.
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Brent Musberger talking about a hot chick in the crowd at a football game = END OF THE WORLD! SEXIST! FIRE HIM!
Chicks from the Today Show going gaga over the shirtless Tonga representative = ?
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When you think about it, every Olympics has a legacy... some good, some bad, some neutral.
Barcelona had the Dream Team.
L.A. almost put Krusty Burger out of business.
Atlanta had the garbage can bomb.
Sarajevo was the first in a communist country.
Sochi was an unfinished boondoggle (close second was Costas' pink eye).
Louganis cracked his head open in Seoul.
Sydney had Phelps' Ocho.
But when you consider the four instances where NA has hosted a Winter Olympics, certainly four of the most significant (and positive) legacies:
Lake Placid had the Miracle on Ice.
Calgary had the Jamaican bobsledders.
Salt Lake City was the debut of the X-sports.
Vancouver was the coming of age party for the Russian Women's Curling Team.
In short... more North American Winter Olympics, please.
Phelps's 8 golds was Beijing, and snowboarding debuted in Nagano, but most importantly, we have very different memories of Vancouver.
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Phelps's 8 golds was Beijing, and snowboarding debuted in Nagano, but most importantly, we have very different memories of Vancouver.
Sydney effing Crosby
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Tara Lipinski is hot. That is all.
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Speaking of Cody Miller, being interviewed on NBCSN right now.
Edit, he's only 5'11" has asthma and has some sort of defect with his chest. Pretty damn impressive.
See, I guess it might be just me, but I don't care about most of this stuff. Not just about Miller, but any of it. The little "profiles of courage" they do between events bores me to tears. And I'm not watching the Olympics at 9 in the morning or 3 in the afternoon because I simply don't care enough. We'll see if the ratings say I'm an outlier or I'm typical.
Tonight, my wife and I will sit down to watch some TV after dinner. She will have worked a long day and will have maybe 2 hours of TV time before she needs to get some sleep. We have Ray Donovan, The Night Of and John Oliver on the DVR, and I'm guessing we both will agree to watch one of the dramas and Oliver. That might leave a half-hour of Olympics.
What I should do is record the evening starting at 7 and then just zip through all the crud to the actual competition. I think I'll go set the DVR as soon as I hit "post" on this!
In the end, I don't care to hear about Cody Miller's asthma any more than I cared to hear constantly about Otule's eye.
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In the end, I don't care to hear about Cody Miller's asthma any more than I cared to hear constantly about Otule's eye.
You, sir, are clearly an unfeeling, cold-hearted monster.
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See, I guess it might be just me, but I don't care about most of this stuff. Not just about Miller, but any of it. The little "profiles of courage" they do between events bores me to tears.
Nothing on television irks me more than the piano mood music playing in the background during these "profiles of courage".
The Olympics are packaged for women - we just try to find the real sports moments when we can.
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See, I guess it might be just me, but I don't care about most of this stuff. Not just about Miller, but any of it. The little "profiles of courage" they do between events bores me to tears. And I'm not watching the Olympics at 9 in the morning or 3 in the afternoon because I simply don't care enough. We'll see if the ratings say I'm an outlier or I'm typical.
Tonight, my wife and I will sit down to watch some TV after dinner. She will have worked a long day and will have maybe 2 hours of TV time before she needs to get some sleep. We have Ray Donovan, The Night Of and John Oliver on the DVR, and I'm guessing we both will agree to watch one of the dramas and Oliver. That might leave a half-hour of Olympics.
What I should do is record the evening starting at 7 and then just zip through all the crud to the actual competition. I think I'll go set the DVR as soon as I hit "post" on this!
In the end, I don't care to hear about Cody Miller's asthma any more than I cared to hear constantly about Otule's eye.
Cody miller's asthma vs MR. and Ms. MU82's nightly tv watching schedule. Tough call.
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Phelps's 8 golds was Beijing, and snowboarding debuted in Nagano, but most importantly, we have very different memories of Vancouver.
Beijing, Sydney... Tomato, tomahto.
And yes, Vancouver was definitely the pull the goalie to tie OT final. But a big part of making your case is knowing your audience, however... and Scoopers ain't exactly a hockey crowd.
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The best part of the opening ceremony was seeing a young man from Bolivia burst into tears as he walked into the arena. He has no chance of winning a medal; he was just happy to be there.
I have always thought that was the best way to go to the Olympics; to not be the least bit competitive. Even better, have your event on the third or fourth day of the Games, so you can participate in the opening ceremonies, compete soon afterwards, and then party for the following week and a half.
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When you think about it, every Olympics has a legacy... some good, some bad, some neutral.
Barcelona had the Dream Team.
L.A. almost put Krusty Burger out of business.
Atlanta had the garbage can bomb.
Sarajevo was the first in a communist country.
Sochi was an unfinished boondoggle (close second was Costas' pink eye).
Louganis cracked his head open in Seoul.
Sydney had Phelps' Ocho.
But when you consider the four instances where NA has hosted a Winter Olympics, certainly four of the most significant (and positive) legacies:
Lake Placid had the Miracle on Ice.
Calgary had the Jamaican bobsledders.
Salt Lake City was the debut of the X-sports.
Vancouver was the coming of age party for the Russian Women's Curling Team.
In short... more North American Winter Olympics, please.
All that and you forgot Eddy the Eagle? Wtf, man?
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Kerri Walsh is pretty unbelievable (although April Ross was the better player tonight). Absolutely disposed of the Chinese team in the second set 21-9. For those who don't follow volleyball, that is an absolutely ridiculous score line for beach volleyball.
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The best part of the opening ceremony was seeing a young man from Bolivia burst into tears as he walked into the arena. He has no chance of winning a medal; he was just happy to be there.
I have always thought that was the best way to go to the Olympics; to not be the least bit competitive. Even better, have your event on the third or fourth day of the Games, so you can participate in the opening ceremonies, compete soon afterwards, and then party for the following week and a half.
I disagree, maybe not in every sport but I watched a top seeded Irish boxer Paddy Barnes completely get shocked in his opening fight and it was because there was a certain underdog mentality from a young Spanish boxer facing a Gold medal favorite plus I saw a guy from Azerbaijan knock out a guy from france. The France guy was in tears that he couldn't finish the fight but good for that Azerbaijan guy who isn't getting star struck by the big nations but instead is competing his heart out to win it.
All that being said who doesn't love this speech
“It doesn't matter tomorrow if they come in first or fiftieth. Those guys have earned the right to walk into that stadium and wave their nation's flag. That's the single greatest honor an athlete can ever have. That's what the Olympics are all about.”
Cool Runnings (1993) – Irwin Blitzer (John Candy)
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"Hey babe! I got a twelve inch penis!"
[In Swedish]
Splash (1984) – Freddie-John Candy
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I think the side stories are what make the Olympics so great. My favorite so far:
Lily King's story of Janet Evan's being her hero after having a chance to meet her as a kid. Then during the trials being too afraid to go up to talk to her.
Apparently, Janet Evan's little girl's hero is Lily King and Janet called Lily for the sole purpose of hoping she would be willing to talk to her daughter to make her year.
Pure joy. That's what the olympics are supposed to be about.
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Lilly King is an american hero after her take down of the russian last night.
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Cody miller's asthma vs MR. and Ms. MU82's nightly tv watching schedule. Tough call.
I appreciate that, Muta, and I'm glad to hear you think our TV schedule is every bit as interesting as another sappy Olympic side story.
BTW, we ended up watching Ray Donovan and then John Oliver, who did an amazing piece on how the gradual phasing out of print newspapers threatens the very fabric of our society.
By the time we were done watching those shows, talking by phone with our daughter and taking our dog out for tinkles, there was no time for the Olympics at all! And yet somehow, we survived!!
Tonight: The Night Of and probably Samantha Bee's show recorded from last night.
I'll keep y'all posted!
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I appreciate that, Muta, and I'm glad to hear you think our TV schedule is every bit as interesting as another sappy Olympic side story.
BTW, we ended up watching Ray Donovan and then John Oliver, who did an amazing piece on how the gradual phasing out of print newspapers threatens the very fabric of our society.
By the time we were done watching those shows, talking by phone with our daughter and taking our dog out for tinkles, there was no time for the Olympics at all! And yet somehow, we survived!!
Tonight: The Night Of and probably Samantha Bee's show recorded from last night.
I'll keep y'all posted!
If you haven't given men's volleyball a shot, watch it sometime this week. If you are unamazed, something is wrong with you. US plays at 1 today. Streaming online and I would think will be on NBC, as their first match was on Sunday evening.
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I'm glad that people care about the Olympics. My wife watches it constantly for two weeks. I just have no interest for the most part. I don't really care about swimming, volleyball or many of the sports that are contested. I watched some over the weekend and Sunday night. But last night I watched a two hour documentary on water rights on the Colorado River that I recorded last week. Discovery did it. Good stuff.
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I'm glad that people care about the Olympics. My wife watches it constantly for two weeks. I just have no interest for the most part. I don't really care about swimming, volleyball or many of the sports that are contested. I watched some over the weekend and Sunday night. But last night I watched a two hour documentary on water rights on the Colorado River that I recorded last week. Discovery did it. Good stuff.
Could you give us a brief rundown of the water rights, perhaps in a separate thread?
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Could you give us a brief rundown of the water rights, perhaps in a separate thread?
Too many rights. Not enough water.
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If you haven't given men's volleyball a shot, watch it sometime this week. If you are unamazed, something is wrong with you. US plays at 1 today. Streaming online and I would think will be on NBC, as their first match was on Sunday evening.
They need to make up that game where they got schooled by Canada. Canada was making miracle shots all night.
My thought watching, was "This is not the volleyball I remember anymore?!" The volleyball players are all like NBA-sized players now.
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Lilly King is an american hero after her take down of the russian last night.
That was a good watch.
The Russian woman swimmer failed (3) PED drug test and was suspended briefly.
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They need to make up that game where they got schooled by Canada. Canada was making miracle shots all night.
My thought watching, was "This is not the volleyball I remember anymore?!" The volleyball players are all like NBA-sized players now.
Brutal, need to serve and pass better. No matter how big or athletic the volleyball players are now, it's still a serve and pass game. We'll see, besides at the middle and Libero, there's a ton of young talent on this team. Probably will be better in 2020 but still a very talanted team.
Wade, is there anyone coming through the ranks who can take over Shoji's spot in the upcoming years?
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Too many rights. Not enough water.
The Water Knife by Paolo Bacigalupi. Novel set in a future time where that issue has changed the world. Fun read.
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Brutal, need to serve and pass better. No matter how big or athletic the volleyball players are now, it's still a serve and pass game. We'll see, besides at the and Libero, there's a ton of young talent on this team. Probably will be better in 2020 but still a very talanted team.
Wade, is there anyone coming through the ranks who can take over Shoji's spot in the upcoming years?
Evan Enriquez (not sure I have the spelling right) is going into his junior year at Stanford and is a complete stud. He'll be in the gym soon after his college career is over. But Shoji is one of the top 3 liberos in the world and isn't old. He played a bad match but he's phenomenal overall. He'll be the starting libero through the 2020 Olympics.
They need to make up that game where they got schooled by Canada. Canada was making miracle shots all night.
My thought watching, was "This is not the volleyball I remember anymore?!" The volleyball players are all like NBA-sized players now.
They will be alright. That was the worst possible matchup to draw for the first match. A team that you should beat, but a team that is big and athletic and, most importantly, hot. To add to that, it's a team you see a lot so they have a game plan ready to go for you, and it's a team with nothing to lose. With a young team (USA) you're going to have opening match jitters, so the team with nothing to lose has the advantage of just going out and being aggressive.
Italy just completely dominated a really good France team Sunday. My guess is the US will be ready to play and today's match against them is very competitive. Beat 1 of Italy or France and you most likely move on. Beat both and you definitely move on. And with Poland and Russia (the only 2 threats in the other pool) both missing players, if you get out of your pool there's a good shot at a medal.
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That was a good watch.
The Russian woman swimmer failed (3) PED drug test and was suspended briefly.
The IOC were really pu$$ies when it came to banning the Russians. They let the folks in charge of each individual sport decide which Russians could compete and who couldn't. The International Paralympic Committee, on the other hand, banned the entire Russian team. What does it say when you go easier on able-bodied athletes than your brother organization does on disabled participants?
IMO, an athlete should get at most one failed dope test. After the second one, you're automatically banned for life. That gives everyone one "Oh, I didn't realize that the supplement my coach gave me contained a banned substance," mulligan, and after that, you are simply a dirty cheater.
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I was really pleased with Russell's performance. Sander was bad, Priddy wasn't any better. Holt and Lee looked slow, hopefully they have their legs under them now. But you're right, they should be fine so long as they don't miss a ton of serves, which funny enough was the problem with the women's team yesterday as well.
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The Water Knife by Paolo Bacigalupi. Novel set in a future time where that issue has changed the world. Fun read.
Milagro Beanfield War
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That was a good watch.
The Russian woman swimmer failed (3) PED drug test and was suspended briefly.
As far as I can determine she served a suspension for a drug test failure in 2013 and then failed a test this year for having taken Meldonium which was just added to the banned list January 1. She was re-instated because it is assumed she may have tested positive for Meldonium that was in her system prior to the ban's start 1/1.
I was just glad to see that King didn't lose to her after all of the bulletin-board material she provided to Efimova.
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Too many rights. Not enough water.
A man of few words!!
That really was a classic reply.
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If you haven't given men's volleyball a shot, watch it sometime this week. If you are unamazed, something is wrong with you. US plays at 1 today. Streaming online and I would think will be on NBC, as their first match was on Sunday evening.
Thanks for the suggestion but I didn't see it till the match was over. I was too busy, anyway. Even I do a little work every now and then!
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As for Olympic spirit ...
It would be difficult to find a more cynical Olympic observer than I am.
You have not met me. I refuse to watch even a moment of the olympics this year. I find the Imperial Wizards of the IOC make even the most corrupt of Illinois politicians look angelic. Why should I give a small fraction of a rating point to a group so disgusting?
Plus I live in Chicago and the way our city and our country was treated back in 2009 when these olympics were awarded was disgusting. I hope the wizards are enjoying their Zika-infested sewer. Call me a sore loser if you will, but I have pride in our city and region and I don't take kindly to what the wizards did to us (even though I am kinda glad from a financial standpoint we didn't get it).
I hope everyone who watches enjoys it. Just count me out!
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I was just glad to see that King didn't lose to her after all of the bulletin-board material she provided to Efimova.
I don't mean to be particularly coming after you, but I think the notion of bulletin-board material is blown out of proportion, especially at this level. If Efimova can't get up for the Olympic final without a 19 year old calling her out, then she doesn't belong. Especially considering the comments were made a day or two prior. Its not like she all of a sudden could have trained harder or focused more.
But I am glad she backed up her talk. She swam with a ton of confidence.
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You have not met me. I refuse to watch even a moment of the olympics this year. I find the Imperial Wizards of the IOC make even the most corrupt of Illinois politicians look angelic. Why should I give a small fraction of a rating point to a group so disgusting?
Plus I live in Chicago and the way our city and our country was treated back in 2009 when these olympics were awarded was disgusting. I hope the wizards are enjoying their Zika-infested sewer. Call me a sore loser if you will, but I have pride in our city and region and I don't take kindly to what the wizards did to us (even though I am kinda glad from a financial standpoint we didn't get it).
I hope everyone who watches enjoys it. Just count me out!
Nice!
You sound like me with the BCS. For 10 years, I did not watch one second of one bowl game in protest of the sham system.
I still don't watch the Beef O'Brady Bowl and Bowling Ball Bowl, but I have watched some of the playoffs the last couple of years.
Sometimes, each of us has to do his/her own protest over something he/she feels strongly about. Bravo to you!
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Call me a sore loser if you will, but I have pride in our city and region and I don't take kindly to what the wizards did to us (even though I am kinda glad from a financial standpoint we didn't get it).
I am SUPER glad from a financial standpoint we didn't get it. I shudder to think how many unused venues would be falling apart around the city and suburbs 10 years from now.
Plus, could you image how much SOCCER PLAYERS would be bitching about the turf at Soldier Field?!
I am in favor of the idea of picking a couple of small, underdeveloped countries and having multiple (permanent?) olympics there.
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Thanks for the suggestion but I didn't see it till the match was over. I was too busy, anyway. Even I do a little work every now and then!
Bite your tongue, 82.
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Would Chicago really have that many unused venues? Between soldiers field, Northwestern, UIC, Allstate arena, Toyota park, wrigley and comisky (never the "cell"), would we really have that many unused stadiums that would've been built? Probably beach volleyball (hopefully temp) but that's all I'd imagine.
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Would Chicago really have that many unused venues? Between soldiers field, Northwestern, UIC, Allstate arena, Toyota park, wrigley and comisky (never the "cell"), would we really have that many unused stadiums that would've been built? Probably beach volleyball (hopefully temp) but that's all I'd imagine.
Less than I originally thought, but several would have had to have been built.
Per Wikipedia (::)):
"While some venues might have changed at short notice, the Chicago 2016 Bid Book indicated that the following venues would have been permanently constructed: an Aquatic Center, the Olympic Stadium (to a limited long-term degree), a Canoe/Flatwater/Rowing area at Monroe Harbor, a Canoe/Kayak-Slalom Course, a velodrome in Douglas Park, and Field Hockey Fields in Jackson Park."
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Would Chicago really have that many unused venues? Between soldiers field, Northwestern, UIC, Allstate arena, Toyota park, wrigley and comisky (never the "cell"), would we really have that many unused stadiums that would've been built? Probably beach volleyball (hopefully temp) but that's all I'd imagine.
We would have been forced to build a ton of new crap because that is what the IOC wants to see.
There is no way we could have put the Allstate Arena in the PowerPoint.
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I am SUPER glad from a financial standpoint we didn't get it. I shudder to think how many unused venues would be falling apart around the city and suburbs 10 years from now.
Plus, could you image how much SOCCER PLAYERS would be bitching about the turf at Soldier Field?!
I am in favor of the idea of picking a couple of small, underdeveloped countries and having multiple (permanent?) olympics there.
Cops America participants didn't complain. It actually looked like a nice field.
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As far as I can determine she served a suspension for a drug test failure in 2013 and then failed a test this year for having taken Meldonium which was just added to the banned list January 1. She was re-instated because it is assumed she may have tested positive for Meldonium that was in her system prior to the ban's start 1/1.
I was just glad to see that King didn't lose to her after all of the bulletin-board material she provided to Efimova.
I looked into the efimova stuff also as they seemed to make a huge deal of it.
Her first positive test was for DHEA, which really does nothing but is likely in a lot of over the counter supplements. Very easy to test positive unintentionally. Also, DHEA is not going to enhance your performance.
The meldonium is also a head scratcher. It is only used in Eastern Europe/Russia, where it is a very common prescription and is used by a lot of the population to treat a variety of ailments. It isn't even known if it is performance enhancing. It was banned, because a large population of Eastern European athletes were testing positive for it.
If she was trying to cheat, she was doing it wrong. Those are terrible drugs to use to attempt to enhance performance. After looking into them, I felt kind of bad for Efimova.
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I am SUPER glad from a financial standpoint we didn't get it.
Our politicians would have stolen us blind!
$14 billion anywhere else has a magical way of becoming $30 billion or more in Illinois. That's just who we are.
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Man, an Olympic Stadium that could've been retrofitted to a new football stadium...tear down Soldier...dreams
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Just 'bout all y'all would hit Efimova, peds and all, ai na?
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Michael Phelps: Greatest Olympian of all time or android? Discuss.
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Michael Phelps: Greatest Olympian of all time or android? Discuss.
Both?
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Allowing 3rd world countries to host the Olympics is a boondoggle from a development perspective because they cannot continue use of the stadiums and venues, so it's a waste of money, plus the whole thing invites huge amounts of corruption related to winning the bids, construction, etc. If the Olympics want to have integrity, they need to stick to about 5 venues in capable cities where the infrastructure exists to support an olympics and just a few new venues need to get re-built each time they host.
My other Olympic rant this year is that the NBC coverage absolutely sucks. Due to living outside the USA, I watch through Apple TV NBC Olympic app. The app itself is buggy and many programs freeze and stop. The commentators all seem like they're 200 years old and were resuscitated just for this event, and there are no efforts to produce anything of interest... like a swimming stream or a rugby stream. You either watch the one event NBC chooses for you or you watch their schmaltzy programming with a bunch of sob stories or you switch over to Ray Donovan.
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Michael Phelps: Greatest Olympian of all time or android? Discuss.
Pretty awesome how he schooled the South African guy despite the cupping nonsense.
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Agree, NBC has been awful. During the volleyball game they missed about 20 points of the match due to commercials, it was really obnoxious.
Besides that though, how good is the women's gymnastics team. Winning by nearly 9 points is unheard of.
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Would Chicago really have that many unused venues? Between soldiers field, Northwestern, UIC, Allstate arena, Toyota park, wrigley and comisky (never the "cell"), would we really have that many unused stadiums that would've been built? Probably beach volleyball (hopefully temp) but that's all I'd imagine.
Chicago also had the largest percentage of temporary venues ever proposed. One of the reasons they didn't get it. As said above, as a Chicago resident, given our finances, I am quite happy we didn't.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/dr-mccoy-and-captain-kirk-approve.gif)
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Chicago also had the largest percentage of temporary venues ever proposed. One of the reasons they didn't get it. As said above, as a Chicago resident, given our finances, I am quite happy we didn't.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/dr-mccoy-and-captain-kirk-approve.gif)
I think Boston was planning a lot of temporary venues too.
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I think Boston was planning a lot of temporary venues too.
Having spent a lot of time in Boston....hosting the Olympics would have been a mitigated disaster.
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Twin Cities put in a bid for the Olympics 20ish years ago.
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Both?
Exactly.
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Denver was awarded the 1976 Winter Olympics but had to withdraw in 1972 after voters turned down a bond issue to pay for some of the venues. The games were then moved to Innsbruck.
Time for the "what if" game. Had Denver approved that bond issue, the 1980 games would likely not have gone to Lake Placid. (Although they were the sole bidder for the 1980 games.) Had the 1980 games been held in Europe somewhere, would the "Miracle on Ice" ever had happened? Doubtful.
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Had the 1980 games been held in Europe somewhere, would the "Miracle on Ice" ever had happened? Doubtful.
It depends on your answer to the question:
Do you believe in miracles?
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It depends on your answer to the question:
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!
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Man, an Olympic Stadium that could've been retrofitted to a new football stadium...tear down Soldier...dreams
The Olympic main stadium would have been in Washington Park on the south side. It would have been a temporary facility and would have been torn down in 2017.
Soldier Field would have been 20,000 seats too small for an Olympic main stadium.
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Chicago also had the largest percentage of temporary venues ever proposed. One of the reasons they didn't get it. As said above, as a Chicago resident, given our finances, I am quite happy we didn't.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/dr-mccoy-and-captain-kirk-approve.gif)
Huh didn't know that but as a Chicago resident that could've rehabbed a house in south oak park or Berwyn and then made bank renting that out this week I'm a little upset that we missed out on the bid
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Just read up on Lilly King. Obviously Efimova's steroid use is an issue, but that was, what, 2013? Do we just ban any and all athletes who have ever failed a drug test? I guess maybe for the quad that they failed the drug test in might be understandable. But to continue to comment on a failed drug test as a result of melodonium is stupid and uneducated. It wasn't on the illegal substance list at the time that Efimova took it. The fact that they can give her a drug test for something that was legal at the time she took it is the problem.
One of USA's own athletes competing in the Olympic games failed a drug test for the exact same reason. Max Holt was prescribed melodonium by his team doctor while playing volleyball for his club in Russia. It wasn't an illegal substance when he took it, but was later added to the illegal substance list. If Lilly King takes ibuprofen right now and at noon central time the IOC decides to add ibuprofen to the illegal substance list and test all athletes for it immediately, should we ban Lilly King from ever getting in a swimming pool again? Seems pretty dumb to me, but according to Lilly King that's how it should be.
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Huh didn't know that but as a Chicago resident that could've rehabbed a house in south oak park or Berwyn and then made bank renting that out this week I'm a little upset that we missed out on the bid
Any money you would have made would have been more than eaten up by the increased taxes the city would have had to levy to pay for everything.
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Any money you would have made would have been more than eaten up by the increased taxes the city would have had to levy to pay for everything.
+1
In fact, we're paying for an Olympics we didn't even host:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-olympics-chicago-2016-met-20160715-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-olympics-chicago-2016-met-20160715-story.html)
Don't get me wrong Boxer - I was as hopeful as anyone in 2009, but with seven years of hindsight, Chicago ended up avoiding an even bigger economic disaster.
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Just read up on Lilly King. Obviously Efimova's steroid use is an issue, but that was, what, 2013? Do we just ban any and all athletes who have ever failed a drug test? I guess maybe for the quad that they failed the drug test in might be understandable. But to continue to comment on a failed drug test as a result of melodonium is stupid and uneducated. It wasn't on the illegal substance list at the time that Efimova took it. The fact that they can give her a drug test for something that was legal at the time she took it is the problem.
One of USA's own athletes competing in the Olympic games failed a drug test for the exact same reason. Max Holt was prescribed melodonium by his team doctor while playing volleyball for his club in Russia. It wasn't an illegal substance when he took it, but was later added to the illegal substance list. If Lilly King takes ibuprofen right now and at noon central time the IOC decides to add ibuprofen to the illegal substance list and test all athletes for it immediately, should we ban Lilly King from ever getting in a swimming pool again? Seems pretty dumb to me, but according to Lilly King that's how it should be.
She is from Russia. They cheated and doped routinely. It is only known what she got caught using.
We don't know what else she was on any ore than we knew what else Lance Armstrong was on until testing advanced far enough.
And, I say this as someone who doesn't care about doping whether it is in Olympic sports, biking, or PEDs in baseball. But as long as there are rules against it, ........
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Just read up on Lilly King. Obviously Efimova's steroid use is an issue, but that was, what, 2013? Do we just ban any and all athletes who have ever failed a drug test? I guess maybe for the quad that they failed the drug test in might be understandable. But to continue to comment on a failed drug test as a result of melodonium is stupid and uneducated. It wasn't on the illegal substance list at the time that Efimova took it. The fact that they can give her a drug test for something that was legal at the time she took it is the problem.
One of USA's own athletes competing in the Olympic games failed a drug test for the exact same reason. Max Holt was prescribed melodonium by his team doctor while playing volleyball for his club in Russia. It wasn't an illegal substance when he took it, but was later added to the illegal substance list. If Lilly King takes ibuprofen right now and at noon central time the IOC decides to add ibuprofen to the illegal substance list and test all athletes for it immediately, should we ban Lilly King from ever getting in a swimming pool again? Seems pretty dumb to me, but according to Lilly King that's how it should be.
She's 19 years old. Many 19 year olds deal with absolutes because they don't understand the world is full of details and extenuating circumstances.
I personally have been very uncomfortable with the "attack"on the Russian swimmer as an individual. If Lilly King grew up in Russia and was training under their regimen, and they wanted her to take something, she would have taken it. In other words, don't take out your frustrations on the athlete, take them out on the corrupt system that allowed this to occur. THAT is why the entire Russian federation should have simply been banned.
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Denver was awarded the 1976 Winter Olympics but had to withdraw in 1972 after voters turned down a bond issue to pay for some of the venues. The games were then moved to Innsbruck.
Time for the "what if" game. Had Denver approved that bond issue, the 1980 games would likely not have gone to Lake Placid. (Although they were the sole bidder for the 1980 games.) Had the 1980 games been held in Europe somewhere, would the "Miracle on Ice" ever had happened? Doubtful.
Depends on whether or not you believe a butterfly flapping it's wings in Brazil can cause a typhoon in the South China Sea
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She's 19 years old. Many 19 year olds deal with absolutes because they don't understand the world is full of details and extenuating circumstances.
I personally have been very uncomfortable with the "attack"on the Russian swimmer as an individual. If Lilly King grew up in Russia and was training under their regimen, and they wanted her to take something, she would have taken it. In other words, don't take out your frustrations on the athlete, take them out on the corrupt system that allowed this to occur. THAT is why the entire Russian federation should have simply been banned.
Very true. I just prefer that athletes keep their mouths closed and play and let those in charge of these types of decisions to do their jobs. To me it just puts a guy like Max Holt in a tough spot, who took the same substance and failed the same test, yet fellow US Olympic athletes are bringing attention to someone else.
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Very true. I just prefer that athletes keep their mouths closed and play and let those in charge of these types of decisions to do their jobs. To me it just puts a guy like Max Holt in a tough spot, who took the same substance and failed the same test, yet fellow US Olympic athletes are bringing attention to someone else.
#sticktosports?
In fairness, when asked about American athletes who've tested positive for banned substances, King said they also should be barred from the Olympics.
I respect the hell out of Lilly King (and others like her) for speaking out. They have every right to be angry and outspoken when forced to compete on an uneven playing field. Imagine working all your life for a goal only to lose out to someone who's been caught cheating repeatedly? You'd be justifiably outraged. And the best hope - what little hope there is - for the IOC and the various federations to get serious about detecting and punishing the cheaters is for the clean athletes to take a stand against it. Silence is tacit approval.
As for "attack" on Efimova, cry me a river. This isn't 1976 and Efimova isn't some product of a Soviet athletic factory. Hell, she's been living and training in the United States since 2011 - two years before her first positive test. She's not some poor kid who was held down and injected with HGH by Vladimir Putin. She didn't unknowingly take a cold medicine with a banned substance.
She's a 24-year-old woman who freely chose on multiple occasions to take substances she knew were banned, in an effort to give herself an unfair advantage over her competitors. If that results in people being saying unpleasant things about her (gasp!), so what?
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Any y'all do da cuppin' thang? Is it kinda like spoonin', hey?
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#sticktosports?
In fairness, when asked about American athletes who've tested positive for banned substances, King said they also should be barred from the Olympics.
I respect the hell out of Lilly King (and others like her) for speaking out. They have every right to be angry and outspoken when forced to compete on an uneven playing field. Imagine working all your life for a goal only to lose out to someone who's been caught cheating repeatedly? You'd be justifiably outraged. And the best hope - what little hope there is - for the IOC and the various federations to get serious about detecting and punishing the cheaters is for the clean athletes to take a stand against it. Silence is tacit approval.
As for "attack" on Efimova, cry me a river. This isn't 1976 and Efimova isn't some product of a Soviet athletic factory. Hell, she's been living and training in the United States since 2011 - two years before her first positive test. She's not some poor kid who was held down and injected with HGH by Vladimir Putin. She didn't unknowingly take a cold medicine with a banned substance.
She's a 24-year-old women who freely chose on multiple occasions to take substances she knew were banned in an effort to give herself an unfair advantage over her competitors. If that results in people being saying unpleasant things about her (gasp!), so what?
Well, not really. She took a banned substance in 2013. I honestly don't know the details on that one, but from what I gather it was a legitimate doping suspension, which is obviously wrong and she should (and did) serve the punishment for that. But the one this year was not a banned substance. Her response is 100% correct. As a 21 year old she got caught cheating and did her time. This year she took what was a legal substance and then failed a drug test because it was later ruled a banned substance. Why should she be suspended for that? That doesn't make any sense. She's completely right. If the IOC suddenly decides that yogurt is an illegal substance, should every person who's ever ate yogurt be ineligible to compete in the Olympics?
Max Holt, an American playing in these Olympic games, failed a drug test for the exact same drug that she was suspended for this year. Same situation. A team doctor subscribed him the drug...because it wasn't illegal...until after he took it...and then he "failed" a drug test as a result. That's insane. If Russians (who have men's volleyball players sitting out the Olympics because they were doping) were calling out Max Holt for his failed drug test we Americans would be all over them.
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Any y'all do da cuppin' thang? Is it kinda like spoonin', hey?
S-I-L is a doctor of Chinese medicine/acupuncturist. Huge into needles, and herbs, and oils. It is not her specialty, but she endorses it. I understand the theory of it.
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Well, not really. She took a banned substance in 2013. I honestly don't know the details on that one, but from what I gather it was a legitimate doping suspension, which is obviously wrong and she should (and did) serve the punishment for that. But the one this year was not a banned substance. Her response is 100% correct. As a 21 year old she got caught cheating and did her time. This year she took what was a legal substance and then failed a drug test because it was later ruled a banned substance. Why should she be suspended for that? That doesn't make any sense. She's completely right. If the IOC suddenly decides that yogurt is an illegal substance, should every person who's ever ate yogurt be ineligible to compete in the Olympics?
That's such an awful straw man. Nobody is being punished for having ever taken meldonium (which is exactly like yogurt?).
Anyhow, you have no idea when Efimova - or Holt, for that matter - took meldonium. Only that they claim to have done so before the ban. What we do know is that they tested positive for it months after the ban went into effect, and many more months after the impending ban was announced. they're only saving grace is that WADA can't say with complete certainty how long the drug will stay in a person's system, but even its manufacturer says it's a couple of months at most.
Are you really expecting sympathy for people who - at best - took a substance they knew was about to be banned up to the last moment, hoping they could reap its benefits beyond the ban effective date?
Max Holt, an American playing in these Olympic games, failed a drug test for the exact same drug that she was suspended for this year. Same situation. A team doctor subscribed him the drug...because it wasn't illegal...until after he took it...and then he "failed" a drug test as a result. That's insane. If Russians (who have men's volleyball players sitting out the Olympics because they were doping) were calling out Max Holt for his failed drug test we Americans would be all over them.
No we wouldn't.
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#sticktosports?
In fairness, when asked about American athletes who've tested positive for banned substances, King said they also should be barred from the Olympics.
I respect the hell out of Lilly King (and others like her) for speaking out. They have every right to be angry and outspoken when forced to compete on an uneven playing field. Imagine working all your life for a goal only to lose out to someone who's been caught cheating repeatedly? You'd be justifiably outraged. And the best hope - what little hope there is - for the IOC and the various federations to get serious about detecting and punishing the cheaters is for the clean athletes to take a stand against it. Silence is tacit approval.
As for "attack" on Efimova, cry me a river. This isn't 1976 and Efimova isn't some product of a Soviet athletic factory. Hell, she's been living and training in the United States since 2011 - two years before her first positive test. She's not some poor kid who was held down and injected with HGH by Vladimir Putin. She didn't unknowingly take a cold medicine with a banned substance.
She's a 24-year-old woman who freely chose on multiple occasions to take substances she knew were banned, in an effort to give herself an unfair advantage over her competitors. If that results in people being saying unpleasant things about her (gasp!), so what?
Alright that does make things different IMO. Thanks for the clarification.
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Zika! Zika!
My apologies if this got covered in a post in this thread but what is the deal with yelling "Zika!!" at athletes who mentioned it as a concern? I can see booing them like they have Hope Solo but why are people yelling out a diseases that has killed hundreds of children? And most of those children are in the very country they are yelling it.
Maybe South Africans should've all yelled "AIDS! AIDS!" in South Africa to any athlete who mentioned they were concerned about blood transfusions since South Africa has some of the highest incidence of AIDS.
Again, no problem booing people but very strange to yell out diseases that are inflicting your own country.
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That's such an awful straw man. Nobody is being punished for having ever taken meldonium (which is exactly like yogurt?).
Anyhow, you have no idea when Efimova - or Holt, for that matter - took meldonium. Only that they claim to have done so before the ban. What we do know is that they tested positive for it months after the ban went into effect, and many more months after the impending ban was announced. they're only saving grace is that WADA can't say with complete certainty how long the drug will stay in a person's system, but even its manufacturer says it's a couple of months at most.
Are you really expecting sympathy for people who - at best - took a substance they knew was about to be banned up to the last moment, hoping they could reap its benefits beyond the ban effective date?
No we wouldn't.
It's exactly like yogurt in that when it was taken, neither of the substances were illegal. Why would you possibly even consider suspending/banning an athlete who took a substance that was not illegal when they took it?
Everything I've read said it could remain in the body for "several months" depending on a number of factors. And I don't really care about what sympathy you want to give the person. The fact of the matter is that the substance they put in their system wasn't illegal when they put it in their body. To ban them for taking a legal substance would be insane.
If you want to believe that literally hundreds of athletes that had a very real chance to go to the Olympics continued to take a banned substance after it was added to the banned substance list then so be it. I'm of the belief that the fact that nearly 200 athletes failed drug tests for the same drug when it hadn't been banned until just prior to those drug tests probably means that there were some traces of the drug still in some of these peoples' bodies after having stopped taking it. It'd be one thing if it was like 3 athletes. Hundreds? That's a little more than a coincidence, in my mind.
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Denver was awarded the 1976 Winter Olympics but had to withdraw in 1972 after voters turned down a bond issue to pay for some of the venues. The games were then moved to Innsbruck.
Time for the "what if" game. Had Denver approved that bond issue, the 1980 games would likely not have gone to Lake Placid. (Although they were the sole bidder for the 1980 games.) Had the 1980 games been held in Europe somewhere, would the "Miracle on Ice" ever had happened? Doubtful.
Doubt it would have happened if the games had been played at MSG. A little known fact is that the Russians and the Americans played an exhibition game at the Garden a few days before the Lake Placid games began. I was there. Russians won like 12-1. It was men versus boys. There were only a few thousand people there. Always wondered if Herbie was lulling the Russians into over confidence. He didn't have to work at it too hard.
LEGS FEED THE WOLF!
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It's exactly like yogurt in that when it was taken, neither of the substances were illegal. Why would you possibly even consider suspending/banning an athlete who took a substance that was not illegal when they took it?
Everything I've read said it could remain in the body for "several months" depending on a number of factors. And I don't really care about what sympathy you want to give the person. The fact of the matter is that the substance they put in their system wasn't illegal when they put it in their body. To ban them for taking a legal substance would be insane.
You don't know when they put it in their body, you're just buying their claims that it was before the ban. I'm not that naive, especially when it comes to the word of past cheats or athletes from a country guilty of systemic doping.
What we do know is that it's highly unlikely they put it in their body without knowing that it was a) banned or b) about to be banned. WADA announced the ban in September, so in order to believe these athletes were taking meldonium before they knew it was illegal you would have to believe it stays in one's system for six months or more, something not even the Russians or the drug's manufacturer is claiming.
At worst they're cheaters. At best, they were recklessly walking the tightrope to gain a drug-induced advantage on the competition. Either way, they don't come off as victims to me.
As for yogurt, maybe I'm just giving the IOC too much credit, but i have a hard time buying the notion that it'll ever be viewed as something that could enhance athletic performance.
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You don't know when they put it in their body, you're just buying their claims that it was before the ban. I'm not that naive, especially when it comes to the word of past cheats or athletes from a country guilty of systemic doping.
What we do know is that it's highly unlikely they put it in their body without knowing that it was a) banned or b) about to be banned. WADA announced the ban in September, so in order to believe these athletes were taking meldonium before they knew it was illegal you would have to believe it stays in one's system for six months or more, something not even the Russians or the drug's manufacturer is claiming.
At worst they're cheaters. At best, they were recklessly walking the tightrope to gain a drug-induced advantage on the competition. Either way, they don't come off as victims to me.
As for yogurt, maybe I'm just giving the IOC too much credit, but i have a hard time buying the notion that it'll ever be viewed as something that could enhance athletic performance.
They announced that it would be illegal effective January 1. So if an athlete put it in their body (knowingly or unknowingly, it doesn't matter 1 iota) on December 31, 2015 at 23:59:59, they were taking a legal substance. You can't ban or suspend someone for a substance that isn't on an illegal substance list. Meldonium at that second was as illegal as yogurt was. And, again, there were 172 athletes that failed drug tests because of meldonium. The fact that it wasn't illegal as recently as December 31, 2015 and it is unknown how long it stays in one's system, but is known to stay in for multiple months in some cases, leads me to believe that the drug may have stayed in many peoples' systems up through the point of their drug test, despite many of them probably not having taken it since before it became illegal. I highly doubt 172 athletes with Olympic aspirations were like, "Hey, they just named this drug illegal. No chance they're going to test me, a potential Olympic athlete, for it!" Maybe I'm naïve. But that's an awful lot of stupid, stupid people then.
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"Hey, they just named this drug illegal. No chance they're going to test me, a potential Olympic athlete, for it!" Maybe I'm naïve. But that's an awful lot of stupid, stupid people then.
Cause hundreds of Olympic athletes would never knowingly take a banned substance.
Well, except for the hundreds who've been caught.
Again, the absolute best argument you can make for these people is that they ALL took a performing enhancing drug they knew was about to be banned to gain an advantage. That doesn't exactly make them heroes.
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Cause hundreds of Olympic athletes would never knowingly take a banned substance.
Well, except for the hundreds who've been caught.
Again, the absolute best argument you can make for these people is that they ALL took a performing enhancing drug they knew was about to be banned to gain an advantage. That doesn't exactly make them heroes.
That's a lot of stupid people then.
Doesn't make them heroes. They also did nothing illegal or even wrong, though.
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I looked into the efimova stuff also as they seemed to make a huge deal of it.
Her first positive test was for DHEA, which really does nothing but is likely in a lot of over the counter supplements. Very easy to test positive unintentionally. Also, DHEA is not going to enhance your performance.
The meldonium is also a head scratcher. It is only used in Eastern Europe/Russia, where it is a very common prescription and is used by a lot of the population to treat a variety of ailments. It isn't even known if it is performance enhancing. It was banned, because a large population of Eastern European athletes were testing positive for it.
If she was trying to cheat, she was doing it wrong. Those are terrible drugs to use to attempt to enhance performance. After looking into them, I felt kind of bad for Efimova.
Thought this needed to be restated. Both Efimova's positive tests were really BS. Meldonium and DHEA shouldn't even be banned substances.
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Thought this needed to be restated. Both Efimova's positive tests were really BS. Meldonium and DHEA shouldn't even be banned substances.
Thanks. Hadn't looked into the first suspension, just read that it was for a "steroid."
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Very true. I just prefer that athletes keep their mouths closed and play and let those in charge of these types of decisions to do their jobs.
Really?
Wades, I agree with the concept of the point you were making, but if we are going to rely on those in charge, there has to be at least a minimal belief that THEY are honest. This is like saying "Just trust FIFA. They are in charge and know what they are doing."
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Thought this needed to be restated. Both Efimova's positive tests were really BS. Meldonium and DHEA shouldn't even be banned substances.
DHEA has been shown to boost testosterone in women (but not men, interestingly enough). That's why it's banned, and that's why it matters that a female swimmer tested positive for it.
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As for yogurt, maybe I'm just giving the IOC too much credit, but i have a hard time buying the notion that it'll ever be viewed as something that could enhance athletic performance.
J.H. Kellogg disagrees.
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DHEA has been shown to boost testosterone in women (but not men, interestingly enough). That's why it's banned, and that's why it matters that a female swimmer tested positive for it.
The problem though is that it is in so many supplements (unlisted ingredient) that it is easy to accidentally test positive for it.
If she really wanted to cheat she would be taking HGH or testosterone not DHEA.
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The problem though is that it is in so many supplements (unlisted ingredient) that it is easy to accidentally test positive for it.
I don't know why this made me think of it, but it sure is great to see our youngsters follow in the footsteps of the legendary Carl Lewis, speaking out against a rival's use of a banned substance. Our athletes are fortunate to have such a great anti-doping role model.
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"As for yogurt, maybe I'm just giving the IOC too much credit, but i have a hard time buying the notion that it'll ever be viewed as something that could enhance athletic performance."
Is yogurt banned for real? During Sochi, they were joking on sports talk radio that Chobani is a major sponsor of the US Olympic teams and the athletes can't even get it in Sochi. Didn't realize there was some seriousness to this.
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The problem though is that it is in so many supplements (unlisted ingredient) that it is easy to accidentally test positive for it.
If she really wanted to cheat she would be taking HGH or testosterone not DHEA.
Then. Don't. Take. Supplements.
Caveat emptor. Why is this so hard for athletes to understand?
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Then. Don't. Take. Supplements.
Caveat emptor. Why is this so hard for athletes to understand?
Doesn't pretty much every athlete take supplements of some sort?
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Doesn't pretty much every athlete human being take supplements of some sort?
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Doesn't pretty much every athlete take supplements of some sort?
All of the U.S. pro leagues have highly detailed lists of supplements that contain banned substances. If an athlete takes one of these and then is caught, he has nobody to blame but himself.
I don't know if the IOC has a similar list. If not, it should.
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All of the U.S. pro leagues have highly detailed lists of supplements that contain banned substances. If an athlete takes one of these and then is caught, he has nobody to blame but himself.
I agree with this completely. I just don't see how athletes can simply avoid them all together as Benny suggests. Many view them as integral to work out routines.
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All of the U.S. pro leagues have highly detailed lists of supplements that contain banned substances. If an athlete takes one of these and then is caught, he has nobody to blame but himself.
I don't know if the IOC has a similar list. If not, it should.
WADA annually publishes an exhaustive list of banned substances, which is why I rarely buy it when an Olympic-level athlete claims to have taken a banned substance by mistake. It's not hard to find out what one can and cannot take, and most of these athletes have access to people - coaches, trainers, doctors - available to find out for them.
http://list.wada-ama.org/prohibited-all-times/prohibited-substances/
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WADA annually publishes an exhaustive list of banned substances, which is why I rarely buy it when an Olympic-level athlete claims to have taken a banned substance by mistake. It's not hard to find out what one can and cannot take, and most of these athletes have access to people - coaches, trainers, doctors - available to find out for them.
http://list.wada-ama.org/prohibited-all-times/prohibited-substances/
Exactly. I can't remember which NFL player it was last season, but one guy was suspended and then admitted he didn't see the NFL's list.
Sorry, but ignorance is never a valid defense.
And the guys saying that kind of thing usually are lying anyway.
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Doesn't pretty much every athlete take supplements of some sort?
There's a huge difference between taking a Flintstones Multivitamin and something that doesn't even list any ingredients on the jar.
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There's a huge difference between taking a Flintstones Multivitamin and something that doesn't even list any ingredients on the jar.
She admits the mistake. Says it happened when she first came to the US. She went to the GNC and bought a supplement. Couldn't read English well enough to read the ingredient list.
Says it was her own fault and served an 16-month suspension from competition.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/in-villifying-russian-swimmer-yulia-efimova-americans-are-splashing-murky-waters/2016/08/10/0ccdba8a-5eef-11e6-8e45-477372e89d78_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/in-villifying-russian-swimmer-yulia-efimova-americans-are-splashing-murky-waters/2016/08/10/0ccdba8a-5eef-11e6-8e45-477372e89d78_story.html)
Coach also comments on the supplements. Says he gave up a long time ago in trying to get athletes to quit taking them.
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What time does the walleye event come on tonight?
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Ok that women's 100 free was pretty cool.
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This US vs. Brazil match has been pretty cool. Can't let Brazil smoke you to get back in it in set 3. Getting 1 point is nice. Need 3.
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This US vs. Brazil match has been pretty cool. Can't let Brazil smoke you to get back in it in set 3. Getting 1 point is nice. Need 3.
International substitute and Libero rules are silly. Amazing this is the same team that got swept by Canada. Guess that's what happens with young guys.
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She admits the mistake. Says it happened when she first came to the US. She went to the GNC and bought a supplement. Couldn't read English well enough to read the ingredient list.
Says it was her own fault and served an 16-month suspension from competition.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/in-villifying-russian-swimmer-yulia-efimova-americans-are-splashing-murky-waters/2016/08/10/0ccdba8a-5eef-11e6-8e45-477372e89d78_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/in-villifying-russian-swimmer-yulia-efimova-americans-are-splashing-murky-waters/2016/08/10/0ccdba8a-5eef-11e6-8e45-477372e89d78_story.html)
Coach also comments on the supplements. Says he gave up a long time ago in trying to get athletes to quit taking them.
Elite athlete who's been competing in international events - including the Olympics - and under international doping regulations since she was 16 years old just saunters into a GNC at the age of 21, pulls some random supplement off the shelves and begins taking it without bothering to find out what it contained?
That's a totally credible story.
Like, "Ryan Braun was set up by an anti-Semitic urine collector" kind of credible.
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International substitute and Libero rules are silly. Amazing this is the same team that got swept by Canada. Guess that's what happens with young guys.
College has gone to the same rules, all thanks to Speraw.
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There's a huge difference between taking a Flintstones Multivitamin and something that doesn't even list any ingredients on the jar.
Yeah, just ask Sammy Sosa!
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Htown chased a failed bid a few years back, too.
Today we are enjoying Houston's amazing Simone Biles Indiv Gold, and the Womens gymnastics team gold...they train at the Karolyi Ranch north of town. USA Gymnastics announced last month that they are buying the ranch from Karolyis to serve as the continuing permanent training center. The Karolyis are retiring but will still live on the ranch.
Another Htown Simone had a good day, too...Simone Manuel of Sugarland landed the first individual Gold for an african american USA swimmer.
I guess what made it really neat for me is we were watching the games last night over at the Ostermans ....who live a few houses away. Our girls went to Cy Springs High (an MU connection is Karon Bradley was then there playing BB, before committing to MU) They brought out Cat's softball gold medal from Athens 2004 ....first time I ever held one...neat feeling.
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Elite athlete who's been competing in international events - including the Olympics - and under international doping regulations since she was 16 years old just saunters into a GNC at the age of 21, pulls some random supplement off the shelves and begins taking it without bothering to find out what it contained?
That's a totally credible story.
Like, "Ryan Braun was set up by an anti-Semitic urine collector" kind of credible.
The fact that Pakuni and I are in complete agreement on something is unequivocal proof that our cynicism is dead-on correct and attempting to counter-point is detrimental to one's intelligence.
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USWNT goes down in penalty kicks! Wow.
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Elimination games in woman's sports is the worst. Crying on both the winning and losing team.
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USWNT goes down in penalty kicks! Wow.
Gutted by that one. What would have been a game-winner ruled out for Lloyd, only to see another would-be winner ruled out at the other end. Neither call looked correct. Poor penalties cost us the tournament, though I think it's as much Pia Sundhage as anything. Probably the best women's manager in the world, and definitely seems to be in our players' heads.
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USWNT goes down in penalty kicks! Wow.
That's why they play the game.
That being said, I detest any game in any sport won whether based on Penalty Kicks or a hockey shoot out. Keep playing sudden death overtime until somebody scores. If the winner is too exhausted the next game that's the price to pay for winning and moving on to the next round.
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That's why they play the game.
That being said, I detest any game in any sport won whether based on Penalty Kicks or a hockey shoot out. Keep playing sudden death overtime until somebody scores. If the winner is too exhausted the next game that's the price to pay for winning and moving on to the next round.
In a sport where nobody tries to score for 95% of the time, that sounds like a horrendous idea.
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That's why they play the game.
That being said, I detest any game in any sport won whether based on Penalty Kicks or a hockey shoot out. Keep playing sudden death overtime until somebody scores. If the winner is too exhausted the next game that's the price to pay for winning and moving on to the next round.
Most soccer fans believe the Golden Goal rule made the game even more cautious and defensive.
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Golden Goal will never be back. There isn't enough of a world desire for the sudden death. That said, I chuckle at wades' typical American comment. Sounds like someone who watches the NFL, a sport where literally only 94% of the time people spend watching the game is actual live action.
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Golden Goal will never be back. There isn't enough of a world desire for the sudden death. That said, I chuckle at wades' typical American comment. Sounds like someone who watches the NFL, a sport where literally only 94% of the time people spend watching the game is actual live action.
Short bursts of intense action. Not better or worse. Just different.
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People, get a grip.
It's only soccer.
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Solo is right, cowardly strategy by Pia. It worked but it reminded me of those Mourhino coached Chelsea teams. (which is why I'm not a Chelsea fan anymore) She's a good manager but that's the reason people don't like soccer when you park the bus like that.
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It wasn't a state secret that Pia was going to have them sit deep and hit on the counter. Why Ellis had the US set up the way she did to start was beyond me. Very short on pace and creativity.
Also, Hope Solo is past it. Then she runs her mouth after the game. So tired of her.
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"I'm very proud of this team. And I also think we played a bunch of cowards. The best team did not win today; I strongly, firmly believe that."
And I strongly, firmly believe that Hope Solo saying that makes her look far worse than Cam Newton did for his reaction in the aftermath of Super Bowl 50. To me, it's not even close.
I guess there's the "spirit of the Olympics" the OP was referring to!
Grow up, Hope, you whiny, spoiled, little shyte. You should be embarrassed, but I'm guessing you're too self-absorbed to be embarrassed.
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I was pleased to hear Julie Foudy go on ESPN and call Solo "classless" and "wrong." She said Sweden played smart and disciplined -- "it wasn't cowardly at all," she said -- and they played a style that MANY soccer teams do when they believe they are outmanned.
"It doesn't represent the house that we built," Foudy said, referring to the tradition of being outstanding representatives of the United States and women's soccer. So at least somebody was embarrassed on Solo's behalf.
Hope Solo is in the running for Sports Jerk of the Year.
Classless, spineless, clueless.
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Elite athlete who's been competing in international events - including the Olympics - and under international doping regulations since she was 16 years old just saunters into a GNC at the age of 21, pulls some random supplement off the shelves and begins taking it without bothering to find out what it contained?
That's a totally credible story.
Like, "Ryan Braun was set up by an anti-Semitic urine collector" kind of credible.
I teach a lot of 21 year olds. That is totally in the wheel house of things they would do.
But that isn't the point. She admitted she made a mistake, owned it and served a 16 month suspension for something that probably gives you less of an advantage than a healthy diet.
I can guarantee you there are dozens of American's taking PEDs that aren't even known about yet (we invented them). Making a girl out to be the devil for taking a supplement 3 years ago and serving the penalty is just absurd.
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Most soccer fans believe the Golden Goal rule made the game even more cautious and defensive.
Yep, it kind of did.
I heard a great idea on how to "fix" extra time in tournament games for soccer, and its very interesting. Can't remember exactly where I heard it from though.
Basically, do the penalty kick exercise at the end of regulation if its tied. Then, after penalty kicks are decided, play the two extra time periods.
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I teach a lot of 21 year olds. That is totally in the wheel house of things they would do.
Students at DeVry do a lot of stupid things. So what?
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Students at DeVry do a lot of stupid things. So what?
I've moved on to the University of Phoenix.
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MU alum Nancy Armour, now USA Today columnist, took Hope Solo to task as "an embarrassment." I haven't seen any other national name do so. Maybe some have; I just haven't seen it.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2016/08/12/armour-hope-solo-sweden-bunch-of-cowards/88639092/
Good for you, Nancy!
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MU alum Nancy Armour, now USA Today columnist, took Hope Solo to task as "an embarrassment." I haven't seen any other national name do so. Maybe some have; I just haven't seen it.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2016/08/12/armour-hope-solo-sweden-bunch-of-cowards/88639092/
Good for you, Nancy!
(see tagline)
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Maybe it's near blasphemy, but am I the only one that thinks it seems Katie Ledecky has to be dosing? When you see how close the rest of the world is, it's bewildering how she alone can be that much better than the other elite, world class athletes. I sincerely hope it's not the case, but that divide just seems inhuman.
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Maybe it's near blasphemy, but am I the only one that thinks it seems Katie Ledecky has to be dosing? When you see how close the rest of the I wouworld is, it's bewildering how she alone can be that much better than the other elite, world class athletes. I sincerely hope it's not the case, but that divide just seems inhuman.
I am not seeing it.
First of all, she got her first world record when she was 15. Do you really think she would be dosing that young? And if she wasn't dosing at that time, why would she feel the need to start once she was already the dominant athlete in her events, with no one else coming close to threaten her?
Also, she is still considered an amateur, and plans to remain so for the next four years so that she can swim for Stanford when she enrolls this fall. Taking out the financial angle certainly eliminates a lot of the incentive to juice.
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Maybe it's near blasphemy, but am I the only one that thinks it seems Katie Ledecky has to be dosing? When you see how close the rest of the world is, it's bewildering how she alone can be that much better than the other elite, world class athletes. I sincerely hope it's not the case, but that divide just seems inhuman.
Was Michael Jordan dosing? It's bewildering how he alone could be that much better than the other elite, world class athletes.
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What an unreal comeback. US men's volleyball down 17-10 and came back to win it 25-21.
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Maybe it's near blasphemy, but am I the only one that thinks it seems Katie Ledecky has to be dosing? When you see how close the rest of the world is, it's bewildering how she alone can be that much better than the other elite, world class athletes. I sincerely hope it's not the case, but that divide just seems inhuman.
Sadly, I think that is a logical first thought in todays sports world. But, they were talking about the sophisticated imaging systems and calculations they have to analyze swim strokes. They said Ledecky has the most efficient form in the history of swimming.
That's a pretty strong advantage. Perfect form in swimming gives you a huge edge in distance events like she dominates.
Also, genetics, both her parents were world class swimmers.
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Friend who was down there doing some writing just said that the Brazilian fans are some of the most disrespectful sports fans he's ever been around.
Edit: He's just kinda salty that no matter the sport the Brazil fans actively cheer against the US no matter what the sport and who they're playing.
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Sadly, I think that is a logical first thought in todays sports world. But, they were talking about the sophisticated imaging systems and calculations they have to analyze swim strokes. They said Ledecky has the most efficient form in the history of swimming.
Appropriately, I have heard several comparisons to Secretariat today.
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Sadly, I think that is a logical first thought in todays sports world. But, they were talking about the sophisticated imaging systems and calculations they have to analyze swim strokes. They said Ledecky has the most efficient form in the history of swimming.
Thanks for the measured response. Figured there'd be some outrage, but these days, any time you see this level of dominance, it feels natural to suspect dosing.
I want to believe in Ledecky, but if she were Russian, everyone would happily suspect her of cheating, even since she was 15. And let's not pretend the country that produced Marion Jones, Justin Gatlin, and Tyson Gay is immune to drug cheating.
I hope she's clean and no scandal comes out, but after years of watching drug cheating, my natural thought when there's that big a difference between #1 and the world it's hard not to be suspicious, even when it's a fellow American.
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Appropriately, I have heard several comparisons to Secretariat today.
43 years ago Secretariat lost to some guy named Onion. Good old Saratoga.
https://youtu.be/ik9U4JVrr_Q
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What an unreal comeback. US men's volleyball down 17-10 and came back to win it 25-21.
Wow. I was at a wedding ceremony for the first 2 sets. Had some texts saying we made a big comeback to win set 1 and "blocked everything" but weren't looking as good in transition as we did on Thursday. Didn't realize it was THAT big of a comeback. I'll have to try to find a video of the match to see that comeback.
I am surprised we've been able to turn the corner after the Italy game. I thought we played well in that match after playing very bad against Canada, but I didn't think we'd beat Brazil and worried about the mental part of a young team being 0-3 in the group going into France. I am also surprised that after getting smoked in set 3 we were able to get out to a 3-0 start in set 4, and then after giving up a pretty big lead were able to stop the momentum and close out the match in 4.
JUST DON'T ROYALLY SCREW UP MONDAY NOW!
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Was Michael Jordan dosing? It's bewildering how he alone could be that much better than the other elite, world class athletes.
Michael Jordan wasn't as dominant as Ledecky. That being said, I think they should be given the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
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Thanks for the measured response. Figured there'd be some outrage, but these days, any time you see this level of dominance, it feels natural to suspect dosing.
I want to believe in Ledecky, but if she were Russian, everyone would happily suspect her of cheating, even since she was 15. And let's not pretend the country that produced Marion Jones, Justin Gatlin, and Tyson Gay is immune to drug cheating.
I hope she's clean and no scandal comes out, but after years of watching drug cheating, my natural thought when there's that big a difference between #1 and the world it's hard not to be suspicious, even when it's a fellow American.
I think anytime someone is so dominant, especially in an Olympic sport, doping questions are reasonable.
That said, the reason "if she were Russian" is different is because that country (and its former Soviet bloc nations) has a very long, very well-documented history of doping its athletes that continues to this day. Yes, a handful of American (and Canadian, and German, and French, etc.) athletes have been caught as well, but there's been nothing so systemic, widespread or state-sponsored, as has been the case in Russia and the other Eastern Euro countries.
So, that's why Katie Ledecky is being given the benefit of the doubt that Katanya Ledkovsky would not receive. It has far less to do with jingoism and favoritism as it does history.
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Making a girl out to be the devil for taking a supplement 3 years ago and serving the penalty is just absurd.
Questioning whether a repeat offender should be allowed to compete in the Olympics = making a girl out to be the devil?
Now who's the one being absurd?
Also, Yulia Efimova was a 21-year-old woman who'd been competing at the Olympic level for more than 5 years when she took a banned substance. Not some poor little girl who - oopsie - took a supplement.
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Questioning whether a repeat offender should be allowed to compete in the Olympics = making a girl out to be the devil?
Now who's the one being absurd?
Also, Yulia Efimova was a 21-year-old woman who'd been competing at the Olympic level for more than 5 years when she took a banned substance. Not some poor little girl who - oopsie - took a supplement.
She is not a repeat offender. She tested positive once for DHEA as part of a supplement. Similar things have happened to numerous athletes as accidents.
The more recent meldonium incident was ruled not a violation since it was taken before it was banned.
The american's sleeping in high altitude chambers is more performance enhancing than anything Efimova did.
Meldonium was banned solely because eastern bloc nations' athletes were taking it and western doctors couldn't see a medical need for all athletes to take it. Eastern doctor's though prescribe it to all intense athletes, because it has protective effects for the heart. They believe it protects the heart from oxidative damage due to intense training, hence a medical need.
So this is solely a case of western and eastern medicine disagreeing on treatment plans and then banning a drug, with extremely limited evidence of any performance enhancing activities because we don't take it and they do.
Its complete BS and more political than athletic.
And on the supplement side, most countries regulate supplements and ban many of the ingredients that would result in a positive test (including DHEA) in all supplements. The US is strange in having next to no regulations on supplements as the FDA does not have jurisdiction on their formulations.
Hell, I don't take any supplements and I would test positive, because I drink 3-6 cups of coffee per day. American athletes that consume large amounts of caffeine are instructed to drink a ton of water so that they don't test positive. They are consuming sufficient quantities of a banned drug, but won't test positive because of instructions. Does that make them all repeat offenders?
edit: They dropped caffeine from the banned list in 2004. It has repeatedly been scientifically shown to enhance performance by up to 3% with proper dosing strategies. American athletes actually have specific dosing strategies for caffeine to improve performance (scientifically tested). Endurance athletes will consume the equivalent of 6-8 cans of red bull (caffeine wise) during competition.
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Hell, I don't take any supplements and I would test positive, because I drink 3-6 cups of coffee per day. American athletes that consume large amounts of caffeine are instructed to drink a ton of water so that they don't test positive. They are consuming sufficient quantities of a banned drug, but won't test positive because of instructions. Does that make them all repeat offenders?
What does this have to do with anything? Is there a list of athletes banned for drinking coffee?
I'm guessing not since caffeine is not banned by the IOC except in mega doses - i.e. at least a half dozen cups of coffee within an hour or two of testing.
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Meldonium was banned solely because eastern bloc nations' athletes were taking it and western doctors couldn't see a medical need for all athletes to take it. Eastern doctor's though prescribe it to all intense athletes, because it has protective effects for the heart. They believe it protects the heart from oxidative damage due to intense training, hence a medical need.
So this is solely a case of western and eastern medicine disagreeing on treatment plans and then banning a drug, with extremely limited evidence of any performance enhancing activities because we don't take it and they do.
Its complete BS and more political than athletic.
You really should provide a citation to the Pravda article you took this from.
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You really should provide a citation to the Pravda article you took this from.
I've never read this Pravda article, nor do I even know what that means, so it is hard for me to provide a citation.
My statements are based on the scientific and medical information I know about those drugs and the history of them being placed on the WADA list.
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Is it Olympian ta rob American swimmas at gun point, hey?
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She is not a repeat offender. She tested positive once for DHEA as part of a supplement. Similar things have happened to numerous athletes as accidents.
The more recent meldonium incident was ruled not a violation since it was taken before it was banned.
This is not correct. Her suspension was temporarily lifted while WADA further studies the period of time meldonium stays in a person's system after consumption. If those studies find it likely she took the substance after the ban went into efferct, the suspension will be reinstated. In no way has she been cleared or the "meldonium incident" been ruled a non-violation.
Also, you have no idea how the DHEA got into her system. You only know her story, which - and perhaps I'm just a cynic - sounds totally incredible. Again, you're asking us to believe an adult woman who's been competing at the Olympic level for 5 years took a random GNC supplement without bothering to learn its ingredients. Sure, sure.And Barry Bonds thought it was flaxseed oil.
The american's sleeping in high altitude chambers is more performance enhancing than anything Efimova did.
Because sleeping in a chamber is the exact same thing as a PED.
Lifting weights is also probably more performance enhancing than DHEA and meldonium. Your point?
Meldonium was banned solely because eastern bloc nations' athletes were taking it and western doctors couldn't see a medical need for all athletes to take it. Eastern doctor's though prescribe it to all intense athletes, because it has protective effects for the heart. They believe it protects the heart from oxidative damage due to intense training, hence a medical need.
Again, not correct. WADA banned meldonium because it believed it was being used for performance-enhancing purposes rather than medical purposes. They somehow found it unlikely that hundreds of young Russian athletes all needed meldonium for heart conditioning.
Its complete BS and more political than athletic.
OK, Vladimir. WADA is out to the get the Russians.
Hell, I don't take any supplements and I would test positive, because I drink 3-6 cups of coffee per day. American athletes that consume large amounts of caffeine are instructed to drink a ton of water so that they don't test positive. They are consuming sufficient quantities of a banned drug, but won't test positive because of instructions. Does that make them all repeat offenders?
Explain how someone who doesn't test positive for a banned substance would qualify as a "repeat offender" in the same way as someone who's tested positive twice for a banned substance.
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What does this have to do with anything? Is there a list of athletes banned for drinking coffee?
I'm guessing not since caffeine is not banned by the IOC except in mega doses - i.e. at least a half dozen cups of coffee within an hour or two of testing.
I edited my statement, because it was removed in 2004 from the list. The reason, energy drinks were becoming increasingly popular in the west.
And scientific studies dating to the 90's show that a regular drinker of 3-6 cups of coffee a day could test positive under the old IOC regulations.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1368325/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1368325/)
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My statements are based on the scientific and medical information I know about those drugs and the history of them being placed on the WADA list.
Yet you didn't initially realize that caffeine has been off the list for 12 years.
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Because sleeping in a chamber is the exact same thing as a PED.
It is an artificial mechanism to boost red blood cells to improve athletic performance. It does this by artificially creating hypoxia leading to stabilization of HIF2 and induction of EPO expression.
EPO is banned. Drugs that modulate EPO production are banned. But sleeping in a hypoxia chamber to achieve the same result is perfectly ok.
Lifting weights is also probably more performance enhancing than DHEA and meldonium. Your point?
Yeah, lifting weights is not remotely similar to hypoxia chambers. See above.
Again, not correct. WADA banned meldonium because it believed it was being used for performance-enhancing purposes rather than medical purposes.
Now go read on why they believed it was being used for performance-enhancing purposes. It was because it was widely used in Eastern bloc nations to levels that western doctors did not deem consistent with medical needs.
So this is solely a case of western and eastern medicine disagreeing on treatment plans and then banning a drug, with extremely limited evidence of any performance enhancing activities because we don't take it and they do.
OK, Vladimir. WADA is out to the get the Russians.
No, but there is a long history of eastern medicines and herbal supplements being banned, because western doctor's don't agree with them having a medical purpose.
Explain how someone who doesn't test positive for a banned substance would qualify as a "repeat offender" in the same way as someone who's tested positive twice for a banned substance.
Carl Lewis. Lance Armstrong.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/exum-claims-large-scale-cover-up-of-doping-positives/ (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/exum-claims-large-scale-cover-up-of-doping-positives/)
We damn near invented the positive test coverup and if you think we still aren't doing it, I have a bridge to sell you.
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Yet you didn't initially realize that caffeine has been off the list for 12 years.
I was reading the article I linked above.
I then read this after I posted.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/how-athletes-strategically-use-caffeine/283758/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/how-athletes-strategically-use-caffeine/283758/)
This clarified the issue. Ironically, the reason it was removed is that the levels being used were considered complicated as the level of use to test positive would be considered normal for some people. Taking meldonium if you are training hard is considered normal in the East, as it is believed (and scientifically valid) to protect the heart from damage.
There is stronger evidence of performance enhancing properties of caffeine than meldonium. Its just one is not used in the West.
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This is not correct. Her suspension was temporarily lifted while WADA further studies the period of time meldonium stays in a person's system after consumption. If those studies find it likely she took the substance after the ban went into efferct, the suspension will be reinstated. In no way has she been cleared or the "meldonium incident" been ruled a non-violation.
Please provide a link for this. All evidence says she tested below the 1 microgram limit that automatically clears an individual of wrong doing, unless they admit taking it after Jan. 1st.
Only those testing above 15 micrograms have to wait for further research.
WADA has clear data showing that it can persist at these low (less than 1 microgram) levels for months after last consumption. They are waiting for further research to see if in some individuals it can persist at higher levels.
Efimova tested below the 1 microgram level and by all accounts I can find has been cleared.
Not to mention that despite being below the limit, she was banned, and was not even allowed to train normally as she was banned from training at any USOC facilities (like at USC where her coach was).
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It is an artificial mechanism to boost red blood cells to improve athletic performance. It does this by artificially creating hypoxia leading to stabilization of HIF2 and induction of EPO expression.
EPO is banned. Drugs that modulate EPO production are banned. But sleeping in a hypoxia chamber to achieve the same result is perfectly ok.
You seem to be missing the point of WADA.
Yeah, lifting weights is not remotely similar to hypoxia chambers. See above.
Why not? Weight training involves using an artificial mechanism to produce performance enhancing results, include increased blood flow and improved red blood cells.
I'm just taking your attempt to analogize PEDs to a sleep chamber to the logical extreme. If you want to claim that any use of an artificial mechanism to enhance performance is the same, you'd have to ban weight lifting ... or at least the kind that doesn't involve hoisting tree trunks and rocks.
Otherwise, we could be reasonable and understand that there's a difference between drugs that manipulate one's chemical makeup and other forms of training.
Now go read on why they believed it was being used for performance-enhancing purposes.
So wait, now you admit they were taking a laboratory-created substance because they believed it would enhance performance?
Glad we can finally agree.
To answer your question, meldonium has been proven to improve the flow of oxygen to muscle tissue. That, in turn, boosts stamina and endurance. That's why athletes take it, not because at they're 20something (and younger ... see Russian junior hockey team) world-class athletes who are worried that swimming, skating and running so much is bad for their hearts.
We damn near invented the positive test coverup and if you think we still aren't doing it, I have a bridge to sell you.
Relevance? Has your defense of Efimova essentially sunken to the level of "Everybody cheats, she's just worse at it."
Carl Lewis? Amazing you'd throw him out there as a cheat given your defense of Efimova.
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Please provide a link for this. All evidence says she tested below the 1 microgram limit that automatically clears an individual of wrong doing, unless they admit taking it after Jan. 1st.
Here's the full FINA statement on the lifting of her suspension, relevant portion in bold:
FINA Communications Department
FINA today confirmed that the provisional suspension of the Russian swimmer Yulia Efimova has been lifted from May 20, 2016, the news only being released after FINA had first given notification in person to the athlete and respective National Federation.
This news follows a new recommendation from the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA ) on this case. WADA is to undertake further scientific research on Meldonium and have therefore recommended to FINA that the suspension of the swimmer should be lifted.
In mid-April, based on the scientific evidence made available by WADA at that time, FINA’s decision had been to maintain the suspension. This was mainly due to the sequence of testing results of Ms Efimova.
All these developments confirm the extreme complexity and sensitivity related to the inclusion of Meldonium in the list of prohibited substances.
Considering all of the above, FINA clarifies that this case is not closed. Following the outcome of WADA's scientific studies and subsequent indication on this matter, the FINA Doping Panel will take a decision. After that, Ms Efimova would be entitled to file an appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).
FINA would like to underline that the decisions taken on this case have strictly followed the FINA Doping Control Rules as well as specific recommendations from WADA concerning the prohibited substance Meldonium.
http://fina.org/news/pr-46-fina-statement-ms-yulia-efimova-rus
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Here's the full FINA statement on the lifting of her suspension, relevant portion in bold:
FINA Communications Department
FINA today confirmed that the provisional suspension of the Russian swimmer Yulia Efimova has been lifted from May 20, 2016, the news only being released after FINA had first given notification in person to the athlete and respective National Federation.
This news follows a new recommendation from the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA ) on this case. WADA is to undertake further scientific research on Meldonium and have therefore recommended to FINA that the suspension of the swimmer should be lifted.
In mid-April, based on the scientific evidence made available by WADA at that time, FINA’s decision had been to maintain the suspension. This was mainly due to the sequence of testing results of Ms Efimova.
All these developments confirm the extreme complexity and sensitivity related to the inclusion of Meldonium in the list of prohibited substances.
Considering all of the above, FINA clarifies that this case is not closed. Following the outcome of WADA's scientific studies and subsequent indication on this matter, the FINA Doping Panel will take a decision. After that, Ms Efimova would be entitled to file an appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).
FINA would like to underline that the decisions taken on this case have strictly followed the FINA Doping Control Rules as well as specific recommendations from WADA concerning the prohibited substance Meldonium.
http://fina.org/news/pr-46-fina-statement-ms-yulia-efimova-rus
That was in May to allow her to start to train again. She was fully cleared and charges dropped in late July.
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That was in May to allow her to start to train again. She was fully cleared and charges dropped in late July.
If that's correct, then I'm mistaken.
Though FINA backing down on her suspension doesn't change the fact she tested positive for a banned substance.
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You seem to be missing the point of WADA.
Isn't the mission to provide a doping free environment? Isn't a hypoxia chamber a lab created environment to artificially boost EPO and red blood cells?
Why not? Weight training involves using an artificial mechanism to produce performance enhancing results, include increased blood flow and improved red blood cells.
I'm just taking your attempt to analogize PEDs to a sleep chamber to the logical extreme. If you want to claim that any use of an artificial mechanism to enhance performance is the same, you'd have to ban weight lifting ... or at least the kind that doesn't involve hoisting tree trunks and rocks.
Otherwise, we could be reasonable and understand that there's a difference between drugs that manipulate one's chemical makeup and other forms of training.
Weight training is a natural mechanism to build strength, not artificial. It uses ones natural muscle motions to build more efficient muscle mass. It is a healthy activity that promotes longevity.
Building a tent that deprives one of oxygen is not remotely natural. It is unhealthy and has negative long term side effects.
But while were on the EPO. There are numerous known HIF stabilizers that promote EPO that are being taken illegally by US athletes (not detectable) and others that are way more efficient and unknown (again being used by US athletes). HIF happens to be an area of expertise for me, as I developed some of these unknown stabilizers as Cancer treatments that are currently in phase 2 trials.
So wait, now you admit they were taking a laboratory-created substance because they believed it would enhance performance?
Glad we can finally agree.
Never said that. Said it was being prescribed for medical purposes according to Eastern Medical beliefs. Just like most of our athletes take amphetamines for "ADHD", or narclepsy (modafinil). Since they are prescribed for a medical condition by a licensed doctor they are allowed. These are western medicines developed by western companies that are known PEDs.
Meldonium has very limited evidence of performance enhancing abilities.
There is one study from the country Georgia that suggests it has a minor effect on ability in Judo. The scientific mechanism of action indicates that it should have no positive effect on normal cells, but would prevent the death of ischemic cells, you know like in a heart attack.
So its scientific mechanism of action is to protect against heart cell death due to lack of oxygen.
The key difference, it is an Eastern European drug not approved for use in the US or the west. If it was really performance enhancing and on the non-banned list, Western athletes would have been taking it too.
To answer your question, meldonium has been proven to improve the flow of oxygen to muscle tissue. That, in turn, boosts stamina and endurance. That's why athletes take it, not because at they're 20something (and younger ... see Russian junior hockey team) world-class athletes who are worried that swimming, skating and running so much is bad for their hearts.
You are not understanding the literature. Meldonium exerts its effect only on ischemic tissue and specifically prevents cell death in these tissues. Its effectiveness is limited to primarily two different avenues. Ischemic heart tissue and ischemic brain tissue. It is effective in improving effects of stroke and heart damage.
Eastern medicine believes that hard training by young athletes leads to unnecessary damage to the heart and brain due to ischemia. Meldonium directly counteracts this effect and is prescribed to nearly all athletes in the East.
In the US, athletes use N-hydroxyarginine to achieve the same result. Another lab created supplement that is used by nearly all western athletes that has a much more proven record of performance enhancing abilities, but is somehow perfectly legal to use.
Relevance? Has your defense of Efimova essentially sunken to the level of "Everybody cheats, she's just worse at it."
Carl Lewis? Amazing you'd throw him out there as a cheat given your defense of Efimova.
Carl Lewis tested positive at least three times. All were covered up by the USOC. Those are proven incidents. We know for 20 years the USOC was covering up positive tests including for Carl Lewis.
Efimova was being tested by the US division of WADA. So she was not part of the Russian coverup.
So we have Lewis, known to test positive and have tests thrown out or covered up as part of a widespread state sponsored doping program.
And we have Efimova who tested positive for a supplement (only legal in the west; DHEA; for the record our top 400m runner also tested positive at around the same time as Efimova...also for a supplement) served a suspension and who later tested positive for a medication prescribed by her doctor that she ceased prior to it being banned.
Yeah, you are right, I shouldn't compare them at all.
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Isn't the mission to provide a doping free environment? Isn't a hypoxia chamber a lab created environment to artificially boost EPO
Carl Lewis tested positive at least three times. All were covered up by the USOC. Those are proven incidents. We know for 20 years the USOC was covering up positive tests including for Carl Lewis.
Efimova was being tested by the US division of WADA. So she was not part of the Russian coverup.
So we have Lewis, known to test positive and have tests thrown out or covered up as part of a widespread state sponsored doping program.
And we have Efimova who tested positive for a supplement (only legal in the west; DHEA; for the record our top 400m runner also tested positive at around the same time as Efimova...also for a supplement) served a suspension and who later tested positive for a medication prescribed by her doctor that she ceased prior to it being banned.
Yeah, you are right, I shouldn't compare them at all.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong again. Lewis did test positive for very low levels of substances found in common cold meds, ginseng and the like. They were found at such low levels that, under international (not USOC) protocols, the results did not warrant disclosure or punishment, but rather further examination. After that examination, it was determined there was no evidence he was using these substances as a performance enhancer, a finding with which the IAAF concurred. In fact, they were found at levels that had the test been conducted just two years later (1988), there would have been no positive finding at all.
Contrary to your assertion, there was no cover up and no evidence Lewis used anything to improve his performance.
The U.S. Olympic Committee did the right thing by clearing Carl Lewis and other athletes after investigating elevated findings from drug tests performed before the 1988 Seoul Olympic Games, track and field's world governing body announced Wednesday.
The USOC followed the rules in dealing with eight positive tests -- for the stimulant ephedrine and chemical cousins in "low concentration" -- at the 1988 U.S. Olympic trials, the International Assn. of Athletics Federations said in a statement issued from its Monte Carlo offices.
The USOC "properly concluded" that each of the cases did not amount to doping under the rules in place at the time, the IAAF said, adding that those athletes who were tested, investigated and then competed later that year at the Seoul Games -- sprinters Lewis and Joe DeLoach among them -- were affirmatively eligible.
"It's black and white," IAAF spokesman Nick Davies said in a telephone interview. "No rules were broken. There was no foul play."
http://articles.latimes.com/2003/may/01/sports/sp-oly1
As for Efimova and her use of banned substances, it's apparent by now that neither of us are going to change the other's mind, so there's no point in rehashing it over and over.
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I'm sorry, but you're wrong again. Lewis did test positive for very low levels of substances found in common cold meds, ginseng and the like. They were found at such low levels that, under international (not USOC) protocols, the results did not warrant disclosure or punishment, but rather further examination. After that examination, it was determined there was no evidence he was using these substances as a performance enhancer, a finding with which the IAAF concurred. In fact, they were found at levels that had the test been conducted just two years later (1988), there would have been no positive finding at all.
Contrary to your assertion, there was no cover up and no evidence Lewis used anything to improve his performance.
The U.S. Olympic Committee did the right thing by clearing Carl Lewis and other athletes after investigating elevated findings from drug tests performed before the 1988 Seoul Olympic Games, track and field's world governing body announced Wednesday.
The USOC followed the rules in dealing with eight positive tests -- for the stimulant ephedrine and chemical cousins in "low concentration" -- at the 1988 U.S. Olympic trials, the International Assn. of Athletics Federations said in a statement issued from its Monte Carlo offices.
The USOC "properly concluded" that each of the cases did not amount to doping under the rules in place at the time, the IAAF said, adding that those athletes who were tested, investigated and then competed later that year at the Seoul Games -- sprinters Lewis and Joe DeLoach among them -- were affirmatively eligible.
"It's black and white," IAAF spokesman Nick Davies said in a telephone interview. "No rules were broken. There was no foul play."
http://articles.latimes.com/2003/may/01/sports/sp-oly1
As for Efimova and her use of banned substances, it's apparent by now that neither of us are going to change the other's mind, so there's no point in rehashing it over and over.
What your article leaves out is that the "cousins" in the combination they were found were routinely used as masking agents to hide steroid cycles.
And that his tests were part of a rampant coverup by the USOC.
And I'm fine with dropping the Efimova discussion. I never claimed she was a saint, but by no means did she deserve to be called out like she has.
The US has far more violators of doping, and with more serious drugs than Efimova.
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Holy crap. Someone from South Africa just smashed Michael Johnson's 17 year old world record in the 400.
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This Bolt kid is pretty good.
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This Bolt kid is pretty good.
This Biles kid isn't bad either.
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van Niekerk, Bolt, Biles all with amazing performances tonight.
Also cool to see Jimmy and other team USA hoops players at the Walsh-Jennings/Ross beach volleyball match.
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van Niekerk, Bolt, Biles all with amazing performances tonight.
Also cool to see Jimmy and other team USA hoops players at the women's beach volleyball match.
Don't know what was in the cups they had but they sure looked like they were having a good time.
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Did you see Bolt's reaction when he walked out and saw van Niekirk's time? Priceless. And perfectly encapsulating what this is supposed to be about.
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Did you see Bolt's reaction when he walked out and saw van Niekirk's time? Priceless. And perfectly encapsulating what this is supposed to be about.
Yep, it was awesome. And after Bolt won his race, he had a nice conversation with van Niekirk in the stands. Lots of mutual respect.
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This Bolt kid is pretty good.
he must be doping just like Justin Gatlin
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Michael Jordan wasn't as dominant as Ledecky. That being said, I think they should be given the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
Ledecky never had to face a defense. I'm sorry, but swimmers, golfers, gymnasts, bowlers, etc... none of them can even be compared to the likes of Pele, Jordan, Gretzky, Montana, Aaron, etc. who faced opposing game plans designed solely to shut them down, yet still ran circles around their opponents and set records.
Even Michael Phelps... without question he's a great athlete and dominated his sport, but to say he was at least as dominant as a basketball or football player - or to even compare relative dominance across sports? Sorry, but the answer to that is an emphatic, "derrrrrrrrrrrrrr."
(BTW - I'm plagiarizing an article by Frank Schwab here.)
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Ledecky never had to face a defense. I'm sorry, but swimmers, golfers, gymnasts, bowlers, etc... none of them can even be compared to the likes of Pele, Jordan, Gretzky, Montana, Aaron, etc. who faced opposing game plans designed solely to shut them down, yet still ran circles around their opponents and set records.
Even Michael Phelps... without question he's a great athlete and dominated his sport, but to say he was at least as dominant as a basketball or football player - or to even compare relative dominance across sports? Sorry, but the answer to that is an emphatic, "derrrrrrrrrrrrrr."
(BTW - I'm plagiarizing an article by Frank Schwab here.)
You can definitely compare dominance across sports. Didn't ever basketball player have just as much of a chance to dominate the defense and game plan created to stop them as Michael Jordan did?
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You can definitely compare dominance across sports. Didn't ever basketball player have just as much of a chance to dominate the defense and game plan created to stop them as Michael Jordan did?
That's the point... they did (have a chance) but they didn't (dominate).
Phelps, Ledecky, Nicklaus, etc... they never had the chance and therefore could never prove they could. The only person in individual sports who ever faced a semblance of a defense was Roy Munson.
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That's the point... they did (have a chance) but they didn't (dominate).
Phelps, Ledecky, Nicklaus, etc... they never had the chance and therefore could never prove they could. The only person in individual sports who ever faced a semblance of a defense was Roy Munson.
I don't get it. My point is that the dominant basketball, football, soccer, hockey, etc. player who has to beat a game plan isn't at some sort of disadvantage over any other athlete in that sport. All other athletes in that sport also face defenses and game plans. Meanwhile, a dominant swimmer or runner isn't running free of some defense that all other runners or swimmers are facing as an obstacle. So a basketball, soccer, hockey, football, baseball, etc. player's ability to dominate relative to their sport is no different than a runner's or swimmer's ability to dominate relative to their sport. All basketball players face the same obstacles as each other. All runners face the same obstacles as each other. Every basketball player and every runner have the same chance to dominate their sport as every other athlete in that sport.
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I don't get it. My point is that the dominant basketball, football, soccer, hockey, etc. player who has to beat a game plan isn't at some sort of disadvantage over any other athlete in that sport. All other athletes in that sport also face defenses and game plans. Meanwhile, a dominant swimmer or runner isn't running free of some defense that all other runners or swimmers are facing as an obstacle. So a basketball, soccer, hockey, football, baseball, etc. player's ability to dominate relative to their sport is no different than a runner's or swimmer's ability to dominate relative to their sport. All basketball players face the same obstacles as each other. All runners face the same obstacles as each other. Every basketball player and every runner have the same chance to dominate their sport as every other athlete in that sport.
It's the connotation of 'dominance.' You can say Michael Phelps dominated his competition like Bill Cosby dominated women, and while it would be a valid comparison to the extent that both phrases used the word "dominated," that's where the comparison ends. The way a swimmer dominates in his/her sport is no more similar to the way a basketball player dominates in his/her sport than to the way 4ever dominates a plate of chicken wings and chili cheese fries.
So you can say Phelps and Ledecky dominated in swimming like Jordan dominated in basketball, but you can't say that Phelps/Ledecky were more dominant than Jordan (or vice versa) in relative or absolute terms unless you're willing to extend the same latitude to a comparison of Phelps/Ledecky being more dominant than Kim Jong Un is to the people of North Korea*. If we want to dance in the ballroom of metaphor and hyperbole, then sure, call it as you will... but the pundits and public aren't merely being poetic with their recent comparisons of Phelps/Ledecky to the likes of Ali, Abdul-Jabbar, and Walter Payton (I actually heard that the other day; ::) only in Chicago), they're being quite literal.
* (Which of course, is false, because none is more omnipotent than Kim Jong Un and it is only by the will of the Dear Leader that he allows the US to dominate the Olympic swimming competition).
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It's the connotation of 'dominance.' You can say Michael Phelps dominated his competition like Bill Cosby dominated women, and while it would be a valid comparison to the extent that both phrases used the word "dominated," that's where the comparison ends. The way a swimmer dominates in his/her sport is no more similar to the way a basketball player dominates in his/her sport than to the way 4ever dominates a plate of chicken wings and chili cheese fries.
So you can say Phelps and Ledecky dominated in swimming like Jordan dominated in basketball, but you can't say that Phelps/Ledecky were more dominant than Jordan (or vice versa) in relative or absolute terms unless you're willing to extend the same latitude to a comparison of Phelps/Ledecky being more dominant than Kim Jong Un is to the people of North Korea*. If we want to dance in the ballroom of metaphor and hyperbole, then sure, call it as you will... but the pundits and public aren't merely being poetic with their recent comparisons of Phelps/Ledecky to the likes of Ali, Abdul-Jabbar, and Walter Payton (I actually heard that the other day; ::) only in Chicago), they're being quite literal.
* (Which of course, is false, because none is more omnipotent than Kim Jong Un and it is only by the will of the Dear Leader that he allows the US to dominate the Olympic swimming competition).
So then why can you compare a basketball player being dominant in his sport to a football player? The way they each dominate their sport is as different from each other as swimming to basketball or running to football.
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Let me say that the dumb argument you are having right now is definitely NOT in the spirit of the Olympics.
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So then why can you compare a basketball player being dominant in his sport to a football player? The way they each dominate their sport is as different from each other as swimming to basketball or running to football.
Because in football, baseball, basketball, etc. performance is being measured by how others perform against other players, not how they perform compared to other players. And in head-to-head sports, the landscape is constantly changing, unlike swimming, bowling, etc. where mastering the sport is all about repetition... to be dominant simply means winning and then doing the same thing over and over again.
In head-to-head sports, dominance isn't simply lighting up the scoreboard... it's about making an impact on (or despite) your opponent. Paul Hornung held the single-season scoring record in the NFL for nearly a half-century, but does anyone even consider him amongst the most dominant athletes of the 20th century? But look at guys like Reggie White and Michael Strahan... how many touchdowns did they score, yet they'd likely be considered near the top of that list because no matter what kind of game plan the opposition threw at those guys, no matter how much film the opponent watched, no matter how much preparation the opposing coaching staff did the week before, those guys adapted to all of it and made an impact in nearly every game they played.
In other words, dominance in a head-to-head sport is mostly determined by how one adapts to competitors who are actively working against them in any way they possibly can, and that ability to adapt is something that you can easily compare across sports.
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Because in football, baseball, basketball, etc. performance is being measured by how others perform against other players, not how they perform compared to other players. And in head-to-head sports, the landscape is constantly changing, unlike swimming, bowling, etc. where mastering the sport is all about repetition... to be dominant simply means winning and then doing the same thing over and over again.
In head-to-head sports, dominance isn't simply lighting up the scoreboard... it's about making an impact on (or despite) your opponent. Paul Hornung held the single-season scoring record in the NFL for nearly a half-century, but does anyone even consider him amongst the most dominant athletes of the 20th century? But look at guys like Reggie White and Michael Strahan... how many touchdowns did they score, yet they'd likely be considered near the top of that list because no matter what kind of game plan the opposition threw at those guys, no matter how much film the opponent watched, no matter how much preparation the opposing coaching staff did the week before, those guys adapted to all of it and made an impact in nearly every game they played.
In other words, dominance in a head-to-head sport is mostly determined by how one adapts to competitors who are actively working against them in any way they possibly can, and that ability to adapt is something that you can easily compare across sports.
Do you think Michael Phelps has had to adapt at all since 2000? How about when he has to swim in the finals of a race and then 28 minutes later has to swim in the semifinals of a different race, while competing against people who literally swim in that single event?
Did Tiger Woods have to adapt at all from tournament to tournament, course to course, year to year?
If you ask me, those are the 2 most dominant athletes of all time. Usain Bolt is up there, Karch Kiraly is up there, MJ is up there, Muhammad Ali is up there. Ladecky can get up there.
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Holy crap. Someone from South Africa just smashed Michael Johnson's 17 year old world record in the 400.
That was pure insanity. He just sprinted the entire thing until his legs started giving out at the end.
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Do you think Michael Phelps has had to adapt at all since 2000? How about when he has to swim in the finals of a race and then 28 minutes later has to swim in the semifinals of a different race, while competing against people who literally swim in that single event?
Did Tiger Woods have to adapt at all from tournament to tournament, course to course, year to year?
If you ask me, those are the 2 most dominant athletes of all time. Usain Bolt is up there, Karch Kiraly is up there, MJ is up there, Muhammad Ali is up there. Ladecky can get up there.
There is a huge difference between adapting to environment/setting vs. adapting to another living, breathing human being (who happens to simultaneously be attempting to adapt to you). Woods never had to adapt to Phil plotting against him. He never had to deal with chipmunks guarding the cup or birds stealing his ball. And Phelps' decision to participate in multiple events against people participating in only one doesn't make him dominant, it makes him fuc*ing incredible. But fuc*ing incredible doesn't make you dominant.
Interesting choice with Karch. I find myself in total agreement with you on that one... not only did he face two living, breathing human beings on the other side of the net, in most of his championship matches, he was facing a living, breathing arch-rival who happened to be his former teammate.
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There is a huge difference between adapting to environment/setting vs. adapting to another living, breathing human being (who happens to simultaneously be attempting to adapt to you). Woods never had to adapt to Phil plotting against him. He never had to deal with chipmunks guarding the cup or birds stealing his ball. And Phelps' decision to participate in multiple events against people participating in only one doesn't make him dominant, it makes him fuc*ing incredible. But fuc*ing incredible doesn't make you dominant.
Interesting choice with Karch. I find myself in total agreement with you on that one... not only did he face two living, breathing human beings on the other side of the net, in most of his championship matches, he was facing a living, breathing arch-rival who happened to be his former teammate.
Not only was he the best sand/beach volleyball player in the history of the sport, he was also one of the best indoor players to ever play. FIVB named him the world's best player in 1986 and 1988 and he was named the MVP of the 1988 Olympics. He won national titles in his freshman, junior, and senior seasons at UCLA, losing in the finals his sophomore year. His UCLA teams lost a total of 5 matches in 4 years, and he was a 4 time All American.
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Not only was he the best sand/beach volleyball player in the history of the sport, he was also one of the best indoor players to ever play. FIVB named him the world's best player in 1986 and 1988 and he was named the MVP of the 1988 Olympics. He won national titles in his freshman, junior, and senior seasons at UCLA, losing in the finals his sophomore year. His UCLA teams lost a total of 5 matches in 4 years, and he was a 4 time All American.
Preaching to the choir... incidentally, you wouldn't believe the flak I got for doing a "sports heroes" class presentation on Karch, Kent, Sinjin and Randy in junior high. Granted, the Twins were fresh off their second WS win in 4 years, but you'd think a fresh injection of AVP interest would have been welcome to a schedule that was ad nauseum-heavy on Puckett, Hrbek and Knoblauch. Hell, if I did my project on Majik, I probably wouldn't even have elicited a sarcasm-laden sigh.
(I think I was one of only a few kids who got an A on that one... though I'll concede I might have got it out of sympathy, because as I recall, I really mailed it in by devoting a material portion of my presentation on the PC-game "Kings of the Beach.")
(http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/15054-kings-of-the-beach-dos-screenshot-beach-babe.gif)
This screenshot from the game is a great reference for proper use of 'your' and 'you're.'
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That was pure insanity. He just sprinted the entire thing until his legs started giving out at the end.
Actually, he was pulling away from the field at the end of the race.
But, yes, when you are in lane 8, I think your only option is going as hard as you can right from the start.
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Ledecky never had to face a defense. I'm sorry, but swimmers, golfers, gymnasts, bowlers, etc... none of them can even be compared to the likes of Pele, Jordan, Gretzky, Montana, Aaron, etc. who faced opposing game plans designed solely to shut them down, yet still ran circles around their opponents and set records.
Pele, Jordan, gretzky, Montana, Aaron, etc. had teammates actively helping them out. Would Montana have been great if the O-Line refused to block for him? Would he have been as great without Rice and Craig?
Individual sport athletes have no one to help them. No one jumps in the pool to do a length or two for Phelps when he gets tired. Bolt has no one blocking for him to keep Gaitlin out of the lead.
Whether in a team or an individual sport, an athlete can only be judged on how he does against his peers - against other great athletes - during his career.
It really is pretty easy to see who the dominant athletes are in any sport.
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Actually, he was pulling away from the field at the end of the race.
But, yes, when you are in lane 8, I think your only option is going as hard as you can right from the start.
Agreed, really the only option from there. And yes, even when his legs were giving out the last 10 meters, he was still pulling away. One of the most amazing runs I've seen.
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Pele, Jordan, gretzky, Montana, Aaron, etc. had teammates actively helping them out. Would Montana have been great if the O-Line refused to block for him? Would he have been as great without Rice and Craig?
Individual sport athletes have no one to help them. No one jumps in the pool to do a length or two for Phelps when he gets tired. Bolt has no one blocking for him to keep Gaitlin out of the lead.
Whether in a team or an individual sport, an athlete can only be judged on how he does against his peers - against other great athletes - during his career.
It really is pretty easy to see who the dominant athletes are in any sport.
A good point.
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Where's the smart money going on the "Lochte robbery" situation?
a) Lochte and buddies made up some elaborate story after doing something stupid/illegal and lost all their money
b) Rio 'officials' are trying to show they are in control, or the the city isn't out of control, and therefore being super d@ckish to the US swimmers, or
c) something else.
Locate reminds me of Johhny Manziel, both physically and the way he carries himself, so i'm going with "a"
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Where's the smart money going on the "Lochte robbery" situation?
a) Lochte and buddies made up some elaborate story after doing something stupid/illegal and lost all their money
b) Rio 'officials' are trying to show they are in control, or the the city isn't out of control, and therefore being super d@ckish to the US swimmers, or
c) something else.
Locate reminds me of Johhny Manziel, both physically and the way he carries himself, so i'm going with "a"
B. I've heard of more than one person being robbed at gunpoint by "police" officers in South America. One was thrown in the back of a vehicle with his buddy with the inside passenger locks ripped off the car and driven out to the middle of nowhere before being ditched there after having all of their belongings taken from them.
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No idea, but Lochte doesn't seem like the brightest individual. Wouldn't surprise me if he was involved in some moronic cover-up.
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No idea, but Lochte doesn't seem like the brightest individual. Wouldn't surprise me if he was involved in some moronic cover-up.
There is a reason that Ryan Lochte didn't go to Stanford like many of his Olympic teammates.
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Where's the smart money going on the "Lochte robbery" situation?
a) Lochte and buddies made up some elaborate story after doing something stupid/illegal and lost all their money
b) Rio 'officials' are trying to show they are in control, or the the city isn't out of control, and therefore being super d@ckish to the US swimmers, or
c) something else.
Locate reminds me of Johhny Manziel, both physically and the way he carries himself, so i'm going with "a"
Character assassination is always a fun hobby when you are clueless of the facts.
While you're at it, maybe attack Gabby Douglas too.
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Character assassination is always a fun hobby when you are clueless of the facts.
While you're at it, maybe attack Gabby Douglas too.
Get over it. Speculating over the actions of a public figure is what we do here.
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Any traction to da rumor dat dey were purchasin' from da street pharmacist and were subsequently robbed by same, hey?
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Where's the smart money going on the "Lochte robbery" situation?
a) Lochte and buddies made up some elaborate story after doing something stupid/illegal and lost all their money
b) Rio 'officials' are trying to show they are in control, or the the city isn't out of control, and therefore being super d@ckish to the US swimmers, or
c) something else.
Locate reminds me of Johhny Manziel, both physically and the way he carries himself, so i'm going with "a"
B. The rest don't make any sense. Lochte is quite well off. There is zero reason what so ever to concoct an elaborate story and hide it from everyone else, except your parents.
Robberies by the police or by people pretending to be the police are very common in Brazil (especially rio). Rio is trying to pass the blame and protect their image.
May Lochte have been going to get drugs or something; yeah possibly. But the robbery was not related to that and was nothing more than a typical Rio robbery that the government is trying to coverup by changing the narrative.
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Saw a question floating around twitter:
If every country had to send one male and one female athlete to complete in every event, who would the US send? And would the US still have the medal lead?
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Saw a question floating around twitter:
If every country had to send one male and one female athlete to complete in every event, who would the US send? And would the US still have the medal lead?
If you're just going for medal count? Do swimmers just swim their own events minus relays?
If so, Phelps and Biles, and yes, they win the medal count.
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Where's the smart money going on the "Lochte robbery" situation?
a) Lochte and buddies made up some elaborate story after doing something stupid/illegal and lost all their money
b) Rio 'officials' are trying to show they are in control, or the the city isn't out of control, and therefore being super d@ckish to the US swimmers, or
c) something else.
Locate reminds me of Johhny Manziel, both physically and the way he carries himself, so i'm going with "a"
I'm guessing A.
Sounds like there is inconsistency between his story and Feigin's, and Matt Lauer just said Lochte's story has changed a bit since he got home. And the video of them getting back to the Olympic Village sure doesn't look like four guys shaken from being held up at gunpoint. Also strange that Feigin seems to have disappeared. The other two are now being questioned, so it'll be interesting to see how consistent their versions are.
I hope I'm wrong.
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Saw a question floating around twitter:
If every country had to send one male and one female athlete to complete in every event, who would the US send? And would the US still have the medal lead?
If we are also assuming that they will get time to train for every single event, so not just spontaneously having to do them all, I might go with JFB.
He's got the length and build to be a really successful swimmer, top class athleticism (both agility and straight line speed/strength).
I'd be worried about difficulties in distance events for him though.
If not JFB. Easy, Ashton Eaton.
On the women's side.
Katie Ledecky.
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I'm guessing A.
Sounds like there is inconsistency between his story and Feigin's, and Matt Lauer just said Lochte's story has changed a bit since he got home. And the video of them getting back to the Olympic Village sure doesn't look like four guys shaken from being held up at gunpoint. Also strange that Feigin seems to have disappeared. The other two are now being questioned, so it'll be interesting to see how consistent their versions are.
I hope I'm wrong.
Just curious, why would they lie about it? Remember, the media only learned of this because Lochte's mom mentioned it to the media. It was not initially reported to the police or USOC.
And if it happened to me and my buddies after a night out drinking, we would have been joking and telling stories when we walked back in too. At that point it was all over, they survived unharmed and it would become a great story to tell.
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Saw a question floating around twitter:
If every country had to send one male and one female athlete to complete in every event, who would the US send? And would the US still have the medal lead?
I'd send mini-Ditka.
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How about some love for Evan Jager. Silver medal in the Steeple Chase. My vote for one of the best performances of the games.
Jager is a 2007 graduate of Jacobs High School in Algonquin IL. He was the 2006 IHSA XC state champion and 1600 and 3200 state champion.
Went to Wisconsin for one year and then went Pro signing with Nike.
The Steeple has been dominated by the east Africans like no other event. They often sweep the medals. Jager has the best "non-African" time and broke the old Olympic record today (so did the gold medalists so Jager now has the second fastest Olympic time in history.)
Jager Silver is the best performance for an American in the Steeple since 1952.
Lastly, the Bronze medal went to is Ezekiel Kemboi of Kenya. He is consider the greatest Steeple Chaser in history, two time gold medalist and 5 time world champion. Kemboi and is known for his blinding closing speed. Jager out-ran him in the last 150 meters. That alone is a feat that almost no one in the world can do.
So congrats to Jager for a truly inspiring performance.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/international/ct-evan-jager-silver-steeplechase-olympics-20160817-story.html
(http://sharing.tmj4.com/sharewtmj/photo/2016/08/17/GettyImages-590222096_1471447564554_44467736_ver1.0_640_480.jpg)
(http://www.nwherald.com/_internal/cimg!0/cxjv37r4om3fzyfur5gopr4gj11ii07)
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Just curious, why would they lie about it? Remember, the media only learned of this because Lochte's mom mentioned it to the media. It was not initially reported to the police or USOC.
And if it happened to me and my buddies after a night out drinking, we would have been joking and telling stories when we walked back in too. At that point it was all over, they survived unharmed and it would become a great story to tell.
No idea why they'd lie. My suspicion is based mainly on the conflicts between the swimmers' stories, and Lochte's changes since he got home.
So I'll ask you - why all the changes and inconsistencies?
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No idea why they'd lie. My suspicion is based mainly on the conflicts between the swimmers' stories, and Lochte's changes since he got home.
So I'll ask you - why all the changes and inconsistencies?
Because Lochte is dumb.
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No idea why they'd lie. My suspicion is based mainly on the conflicts between the swimmers' stories, and Lochte's changes since he got home.
So I'll ask you - why all the changes and inconsistencies?
There was only one change. The gun wasn't placed against his head. That was an embellishment.
The inconsistencies, unless I'm missing something, are not inconsistencies. Lochte had said in some reports that they were robbed by one gunmen. Feigen said they were robbed by a group.
But Lochte's story was that they were confronted by a group of people, only one of which had a gun. The inconsistencies sound more an issue of what was asked and perception (gunmen was robber, vs whole group being the robbers).
The only other inconsistency was the time they said they left club france. Apparently they left later than they thought. Seems an issue of being drunk, not lying.
To me it all seems like they told the truth, they were robbed, Lochte said a gun was at his forehead as part of an exaggeration before Brazil went Batcrap crazy to cover their arses.
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There was only one change. The gun wasn't placed against his head. That was an embellishment.
The inconsistencies, unless I'm missing something, are not inconsistencies. Lochte had said in some reports that they were robbed by one gunmen. Feigen said they were robbed by a group.
But Lochte's story was that they were confronted by a group of people, only one of which had a gun. The inconsistencies sound more an issue of what was asked and perception (gunmen was robber, vs whole group being the robbers).
The only other inconsistency was the time they said they left club france. Apparently they left later than they thought. Seems an issue of being drunk, not lying.
To me it all seems like they told the truth, they were robbed, Lochte said a gun was at his forehead as part of an exaggeration before Brazil went Batcrap crazy to cover their arses.
You keep saying "only"...and then adding to the list. Against his head or not? One or a group? What time? To me that isn't an "only."
And you seem to have missed the Matt Lauer report. Lochte originally said the fake cops pulled them over, but later told Lauer that they had stopped at a gas station and were confronted when they came out of the restroom. How many changes or inconsistencies do you need to get a bit suspicious?
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You keep saying "only"...and then adding to the list. Against his head or not? One or a group? What time? To me that isn't an "only."
And you seem to have missed the Matt Lauer report. Lochte originally said the fake cops pulled them over, but later told Lauer that they had stopped at a gas station and were confronted when they came out of the restroom. How many changes or inconsistencies do you need to get a bit suspicious?
I wasn't aware of the change regarding the bathroom. The only change before then was whether a cocked gun was pointed at his forehead or against his forehead. That doesn't raise any suspicion to me.
The bathroom part is also not major. The full story is they used a gas station bathroom.. When they left, they got in the cab and the cab driver refused to drive. The robbers showed up with a badge and removed them from the vehicle. One of the robbers pointed a gun at Lochte and cocked the gun.
Again, not a change in narrative. It is providing more specifics. In an interview (not police) in the same situation I would have said pulled over, its easier and establishes the story sufficient for general media. Lochte voluntarily contacted the media to clarify the key details as it suddenly became a huge deal and huge story when none of them had planned to report it to anyone.
My only suspicions would be that one of them got too drunk, puked out of a moving car or in the car and they stopped to clean up. Taxi driver likely called people to rob them. They were robbed at gunpoint.
Any nefarious stories regarding Lochte and the rest are absurdly illogical. These types of "inconsistencies" are present in just about any eye witness accounts of any situation.
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Because Lochte is dumb.
This is very factual. The biggest issue here is that Lochte is too stupid to realize how big a deal this would become. He wanted to tell a cool story of how they were robbed and the danger they were in.
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I wasn't aware of the change regarding the bathroom. The only change before then was whether a cocked gun was pointed at his forehead or against his forehead. That doesn't raise any suspicion to me.
The bathroom part is also not major. The full story is they used a gas station bathroom.. When they left, they got in the cab and the cab driver refused to drive. The robbers showed up with a badge and removed them from the vehicle. One of the robbers pointed a gun at Lochte and cocked the gun.
Again, not a change in narrative. It is providing more specifics. In an interview (not police) in the same situation I would have said pulled over, its easier and establishes the story sufficient for general media. Lochte voluntarily contacted the media to clarify the key details as it suddenly became a huge deal and huge story when none of them had planned to report it to anyone.
My only suspicions would be that one of them got too drunk, puked out of a moving car or in the car and they stopped to clean up. Taxi driver likely called people to rob them. They were robbed at gunpoint.
Any nefarious stories regarding Lochte and the rest are absurdly illogical. These types of "inconsistencies" are present in just about any eye witness accounts of any situation.
That's kind of what I'm thinking. There might be an embarrassing detail (like puking in the backseat) that might have been left out and the exact details of the story might not match up exactly (who cares, they never do) but a robbery took place. And I agree that the cabbie was in on it.
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I wasn't aware of the change regarding the bathroom. The only change before then was whether a cocked gun was pointed at his forehead or against his forehead. That doesn't raise any suspicion to me.
The bathroom part is also not major. The full story is they used a gas station bathroom.. When they left, they got in the cab and the cab driver refused to drive. The robbers showed up with a badge and removed them from the vehicle. One of the robbers pointed a gun at Lochte and cocked the gun.
Again, not a change in narrative. It is providing more specifics. In an interview (not police) in the same situation I would have said pulled over, its easier and establishes the story sufficient for general media. Lochte voluntarily contacted the media to clarify the key details as it suddenly became a huge deal and huge story when none of them had planned to report it to anyone.
My only suspicions would be that one of them got too drunk, puked out of a moving car or in the car and they stopped to clean up. Taxi driver likely called people to rob them. They were robbed at gunpoint.
Any nefarious stories regarding Lochte and the rest are absurdly illogical. These types of "inconsistencies" are present in just about any eye witness accounts of any situation.
You just confirmed my suspicion - that no number of changes or inconsistencies will ever change your mind.
Let me ask you - why would Rio authorities challenge the allegations if they are legitimate? If they let this go, the robbery would have been a one-day blip in the news coverage. By very publicly challenging the charges, they have turned it into a huge news story.
So using your own words, it would be "absurdly illogical" for Rio authorities to publicly challenge the story if they don't have a sound basis for doing so.
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You just confirmed my suspicion - that no number of changes or inconsistencies will ever change your mind.
Let me ask you - why would Rio authorities challenge the allegations if they are legitimate? If they let this go, the robbery would have been a one-day blip in the news coverage. By very publicly challenging the charges, they have turned it into a huge news story.
So using your own words, it would be "absurdly illogical" for Rio authorities to publicly challenge the story if they don't have a sound basis for doing so.
Before any of it was ever challenged this was on the front page of espn.com, all over national news, etc. It wasn't some one-day blip. There had been discussions for literally years about how Brazil wouldn't be ready to host the Olympics, questions about the safety of the athletes, etc. This just confirms all of those issues. Why wouldn't they challenge it?
It seems like it's pretty common for these robbers in Brazil target people relieving themselves. When my buddy and his friend were there and got "arrested" (thrown into a car by guys in police uniforms pointing guns at them and then driven to the middle of nowhere before they took their belongings and threw them out of the car) they were peeing in bushes. Apparently when these cops "arrested" the swimmers they were coming out of a gas station bathroom. I have also heard stories that taxi drivers in some places now work with these robbers. So it doesn't seem like an unlikely story at all, unless these swimmers did their research and were like, "Hey, fake police rob people here all the time. Easy excuse for us!"
When I was a senior in high school I got held up at gunpoint while working at a locally owned pharmacy. The police interviewed me after it happened, and after that we went back and watched the surveillance video. I got a lot of the details wrong (whether or not there was wool on the hood, whether or not he had gloves on, etc.). Why? Because victims of armed robberies tend to only notice/see/remember one thing: the weapon. When someone's there threatening to "blow your effing brains out," you're not sitting there taking note of every detail. One thing is on your mind: survival. The fact that someone who got robbed at gunpoint got details of it wrong? Not at all out of the ordinary. In fact, it would raise more red flags if the victim remembered every detail of the event than if he/she didn't.
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If you're just going for medal count? Do swimmers just swim their own events minus relays?
If so, Phelps and Biles, and yes, they win the medal count.
Each male would swim every event of the olympics against 1 male from every other country. So, if Phelps, yes he would do all the swimming events. Then he'd do all the track events, gymnastics, volleyball, shooting, taekwondo, etc. Same with the female.
Each country would only have 1 person of each gender to do every single event.
They would not get much prior time to train for events. But they would be given explanations of rules for each event.
Many online picks for Lebron and Serena. Some for Westbrook.
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Just curious, why would they lie about it? Remember, the media only learned of this because Lochte's mom mentioned it to the media. It was not initially reported to the police or USOC.
And if it happened to me and my buddies after a night out drinking, we would have been joking and telling stories when we walked back in too. At that point it was all over, they survived unharmed and it would become a great story to tell.
I'd guess drugs/brothel. When they showed up to the village exceptionally late, they needed a story to tell that wouldn't implicate themselves (or get them in trouble with their significant others). So, they came up with the robbery, figuring that would be easy to get away with.
Brazil is freaking out over this, likely because of all the bad press already and they don't want a reputation for a tarnished olympics.
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Well it looks like it was fabricated. Apparently they got into a fight with a security guard at the gas station.
Matt GutmanVerified account
@mattgutmanABC
#BREAKING Brazil sources: #RyanLochte + 3 swimmers fabricated robbery story. Video shows swimmer "fighting" w/security at gas station @GMA
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Video surfacing of Lochte at the Rio airport.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l0qw4gY0IgTAI/giphy.gif)
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Before any of it was ever challenged this was on the front page of espn.com, all over national news, etc. It wasn't some one-day blip. There had been discussions for literally years about how Brazil wouldn't be ready to host the Olympics, questions about the safety of the athletes, etc. This just confirms all of those issues. Why wouldn't they challenge it?
It seems like it's pretty common for these robbers in Brazil target people relieving themselves. When my buddy and his friend were there and got "arrested" (thrown into a car by guys in police uniforms pointing guns at them and then driven to the middle of nowhere before they took their belongings and threw them out of the car) they were peeing in bushes. Apparently when these cops "arrested" the swimmers they were coming out of a gas station bathroom. I have also heard stories that taxi drivers in some places now work with these robbers. So it doesn't seem like an unlikely story at all, unless these swimmers did their research and were like, "Hey, fake police rob people here all the time. Easy excuse for us!"
When I was a senior in high school I got held up at gunpoint while working at a locally owned pharmacy. The police interviewed me after it happened, and after that we went back and watched the surveillance video. I got a lot of the details wrong (whether or not there was wool on the hood, whether or not he had gloves on, etc.). Why? Because victims of armed robberies tend to only notice/see/remember one thing: the weapon. When someone's there threatening to "blow your effing brains out," you're not sitting there taking note of every detail. One thing is on your mind: survival. The fact that someone who got robbed at gunpoint got details of it wrong? Not at all out of the ordinary. In fact, it would raise more red flags if the victim remembered every detail of the event than if he/she didn't.
It was all over the news...for a day. Then the headlines switched back to the games. By challenging this, Rio authorities turned it from a one-day blip to a huge deal. They have more to lose by challenging it than they did by letting it die. And the changes/inconsistencies just keep popping up.
Look at the story this morning about the Brit who was held up. Headline this morning, but my guess is that it will die by tomorrow if authorities believe it and don't make it a bigger deal.
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Before any of it was ever challenged this was on the front page of espn.com, all over national news, etc. It wasn't some one-day blip. There had been discussions for literally years about how Brazil wouldn't be ready to host the Olympics, questions about the safety of the athletes, etc. This just confirms all of those issues. Why wouldn't they challenge it?
It seems like it's pretty common for these robbers in Brazil target people relieving themselves. When my buddy and his friend were there and got "arrested" (thrown into a car by guys in police uniforms pointing guns at them and then driven to the middle of nowhere before they took their belongings and threw them out of the car) they were peeing in bushes. Apparently when these cops "arrested" the swimmers they were coming out of a gas station bathroom. I have also heard stories that taxi drivers in some places now work with these robbers. So it doesn't seem like an unlikely story at all, unless these swimmers did their research and were like, "Hey, fake police rob people here all the time. Easy excuse for us!"
When I was a senior in high school I got held up at gunpoint while working at a locally owned pharmacy. The police interviewed me after it happened, and after that we went back and watched the surveillance video. I got a lot of the details wrong (whether or not there was wool on the hood, whether or not he had gloves on, etc.). Why? Because victims of armed robberies tend to only notice/see/remember one thing: the weapon. When someone's there threatening to "blow your effing brains out," you're not sitting there taking note of every detail. One thing is on your mind: survival. The fact that someone who got robbed at gunpoint got details of it wrong? Not at all out of the ordinary. In fact, it would raise more red flags if the victim remembered every detail of the event than if he/she didn't.
I spent eight months in Mexico City for work and while a big city, not quite as dangerous as everyone makes it out to be if you avoid the bad parts. But the one thing you always had to keep in mind were the taxis you took. Taking GPS-linked (they call them radio taxis) taxis or cars from your hotels. I've heard many stories of taxi drivers taking foreigners down a road and then all of a sudden they are surrounded and robbed there, or taken elsewhere and forced to withdraw cash from ATMs.
On another note regarding not remembering everything. Many years ago my mother and stepfather were robbed at gunpoint in Chicago. My mom remembers quite a lot of the details of the whole thing. My stepfather barely remembers anything. Only knows there was a gun. Couldn't tell you what the guy looked like, etc.
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It was all over the news...for a day. Then the headlines switched back to the games. By challenging this, Rio authorities turned it from a one-day blip to a huge deal. They have more to lose by challenging it than they did by letting it die. And the changes/inconsistencies just keep popping up.
It was all over the news for a day at the start of the games, yes. And then the games themselves quieted it down.
But this was all over the news for the months leading into the Olympics. I'm not sure how you can ignore that.
It was never going to be a one-day blip when it involved Lochte. The American media was going to eat it up and run with it against the previous narrative that had been built up for months and they did.
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Well it looks like it was fabricated. Apparently they got into a fight with a security guard at the gas station.
Matt GutmanVerified account
@mattgutmanABC
#BREAKING Brazil sources: #RyanLochte + 3 swimmers fabricated robbery story. Video shows swimmer "fighting" w/security at gas station @GMA
Interesting. One thing odd about this, however, is that I read a previous article citing the fact that the swimmers didn't appear on the surveillance video at the gas station as one of the things that was calling their story into question. I wonder if/when this video will be released.
I'll admit that I'm beginning to think this will end poorly for Lochte and the other swimmers. The thing about Lochte, as others have mentioned, is that he doesn't seem particularly bright. Given that, I feel like anything is possible here. He could have told a real story but is a little foggy on the details; he could have exaggerated a real robbery; or he could have made up a story completely for the hell of it. Who knows. And I strongly suspect that if the story was made up, the other swimmers who are now stuck in Brazil will spill everything.
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I'd guess drugs/brothel. When they showed up to the village exceptionally late, they needed a story to tell that wouldn't implicate themselves (or get them in trouble with their significant others). So, they came up with the robbery, figuring that would be easy to get away with.
Brazil is freaking out over this, likely because of all the bad press already and they don't want a reputation for a tarnished olympics.
This. The first part is irrelevant. They tried to save face in the dumbest way they knew how. And then he told his mother.
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Well it looks like it was fabricated. Apparently they got into a fight with a security guard at the gas station.
Matt GutmanVerified account
@mattgutmanABC
#BREAKING Brazil sources: #RyanLochte + 3 swimmers fabricated robbery story. Video shows swimmer "fighting" w/security at gas station @GMA
Newest story (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3747084/Smile-camera-Grinning-Ryan-Lochte-poses-fan-photo-American-soil-three-teammates-detained-Brazil-questioning-swimmer-changes-robbery-story.html): Lochte and the other swimmers trashed the bathroom at the gas station; fought with the security guard; and the security guard pulled a gun on them demanding they pay for the damage.
If it's true (and I don't know if it is), it would answer the "why would he lie" question. It would also answer the, "why weren't they traumatized after getting robbed" question. Finally, it would answer the "why was an on-air interview the first anyone heard of it" question. Lochte, being not the brightest bulb on the tree, had a story about a guy pulling a gun on him in Rio and wanted to tell it, but didn't really want to talk about how it actually went down.
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It was all over the news for a day at the start of the games, yes. And then the games themselves quieted it down.
But this was all over the news for the months leading into the Olympics. I'm not sure how you can ignore that.
It was never going to be a one-day blip when it involved Lochte. The American media was going to eat it up and run with it against the previous narrative that had been built up for months and they did.
When I was talking about all over the news for a day, I was talking about the Lochte situation, not the general crime issue. It only got bigger once the changes and inconsistencies came out.
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When I was talking about all over the news for a day, I was talking about the Lochte situation, not the general crime issue. It only got bigger once the changes and inconsistencies came out.
Ohhh, well you were addressing wades post where he was referencing the general discussion in the media leading up to the games about Rio not being safe, so I guess that was confusing.
And when was this specific situation just a "blip" for one day? Hasn't this been a major story since the second it caught wind?
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Are you serious? Nobody gives a sh!t about the Steeplechase, do they even broadcast that?
How about some love for Evan Jager. Silver medal in the Steeple Chase. My vote for one of the best performances of the games.
Jager is a 2007 graduate of Jacobs High School in Algonquin IL. He was the 2006 IHSA XC state champion and 1600 and 3200 state champion.
Went to Wisconsin for one year and then went Pro signing with Nike.
The Steeple has been dominated by the east Africans like no other event. They often sweep the medals. Jager has the best "non-African" time and broke the old Olympic record today (so did the gold medalists so Jager now has the second fastest Olympic time in history.)
Jager Silver is the best performance for an American in the Steeple since 1952.
Lastly, the Bronze medal went to is Ezekiel Kemboi of Kenya. He is consider the greatest Steeple Chaser in history, two time gold medalist and 5 time world champion. Kemboi and is known for his blinding closing speed. Jager out-ran him in the last 150 meters. That alone is a feat that almost no one in the world can do.
So congrats to Jager for a truly inspiring performance.
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Ohhh, well you were addressing wades post where he was referencing the general discussion in the media leading up to the games about Rio not being safe, so I guess that was confusing.
And when was this specific situation just a "blip" for one day? Hasn't this been a major story since the second it caught wind?
It was a big story for a day...then the press resumed its primary focus on the events. Sure, you could find more stories if you looked, but they weren't in the forefront - the events were front and center, and this was background. This only came back to the forefront when Rio officials raised questions about the stories.
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It was a big story for a day...then the press resumed its primary focus on the events. Sure, you could find more stories if you looked, but they weren't in the forefront - the events were front and center, and this was background. This only came back to the forefront when Rio officials raised questions about the stories.
I guess I remember seeing it front and center since the story broke on Sunday. Rio officials started raising questions on Tuesday.
http://www.sbnation.com/2016/8/18/12528300/ryan-lochte-robbed-rio-brazil-swimming-details
And as an update, just got an ESPN alert that said US swimmers told Brazilian police that Lochte fabricated the story.
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Well it looks like it was fabricated. Apparently they got into a fight with a security guard at the gas station.
Matt GutmanVerified account
@mattgutmanABC
#BREAKING Brazil sources: #RyanLochte + 3 swimmers fabricated robbery story. Video shows swimmer "fighting" w/security at gas station @GMA
WHOA! WHOA! WHOA! Matt G. is clearly guilty of character assassination for even suggesting Lochte wasn't on the up and up. Hopefully he shows more restraint with the Gabby Douglas story. 8-)
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Well the new advice to college students is now, if the football team or US swimmers show up where you are and it's after midnight....go home, nothing good can happen.
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So this will continue to get interesting...
http://www.espn.com/olympics/swimming/story/_/id/17336394/2016-rio-olympics-video-shows-us-swimmer-damaging-gas-station-fighting-security-guard-ryan-lochte-incident
The beginning part of this story makes it sound like Lochte himself fabricated the story, moreso than the collective group fabricating it. Will be interested to see what happens.
Said ultimately what happened is they tried to open the bathroom door and it was locked, then they pushed it open and broke it. A security guard and store manager confronted them (security guard had a pistol on him, but did not draw it) and demanded that they pay for the door. The swimmers gave the manager some money (reported around $50 USD) and left.
The worst part about all of this is I don't really care too much that they broke the door. Sometimes people drink and make dumb decisions. If they pay the store manager ($50 was probably not enough) enough to pay for the door, then great. I'm sure many other people wouldn't have the "sh*t happens" attitude about that as I do, but whatever, I could live with it.
The part that is embarassing, is the fabrication of the story. That is completely unnecessary and outright wrong.
Also curious as to why the story was fabricated. Did they think it would be a funny story to tell? Did someone confront them back at the US camp about something and they made the story up on the spot?
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So this will continue to get interesting...
http://www.espn.com/olympics/swimming/story/_/id/17336394/2016-rio-olympics-video-shows-us-swimmer-damaging-gas-station-fighting-security-guard-ryan-lochte-incident
The beginning part of this story makes it sound like Lochte himself fabricated the story, moreso than the collective group fabricating it. Will be interested to see what happens.
Said ultimately what happened is they tried to open the bathroom door and it was locked, then they pushed it open and broke it. A security guard and store manager confronted them (security guard had a pistol on him, but did not draw it) and demanded that they pay for the door. The swimmers gave the manager some money (reported around $50 USD) and left.
The worst part about all of this is I don't really care too much that they broke the door. Sometimes people drink and make dumb decisions. If they pay the store manager ($50 was probably not enough) enough to pay for the door, then great. I'm sure many other people wouldn't have the "sh*t happens" attitude about that as I do, but whatever, I could live with it.
The part that is embarassing, is the fabrication of the story. That is completely unnecessary and outright wrong.
Also curious as to why the story was fabricated. Did they think it would be a funny story to tell? Did someone confront them back at the US camp about something and they made the story up on the spot?
That's what so weird about this. I mean so what that they broke a door when they needed to pee and that a bunch of guys 'solved' the problem with wallet cash? Truly, that should have been the end of the story.
'Yeah, I might have exercised some poor judgement early this morning but it's all good and nobody got hurt.' But to fabricate this international incident and lie? Now THAT'S stupid.
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So this will continue to get interesting...
http://www.espn.com/olympics/swimming/story/_/id/17336394/2016-rio-olympics-video-shows-us-swimmer-damaging-gas-station-fighting-security-guard-ryan-lochte-incident
The beginning part of this story makes it sound like Lochte himself fabricated the story, moreso than the collective group fabricating it. Will be interested to see what happens.
Said ultimately what happened is they tried to open the bathroom door and it was locked, then they pushed it open and broke it. A security guard and store manager confronted them (security guard had a pistol on him, but did not draw it) and demanded that they pay for the door. The swimmers gave the manager some money (reported around $50 USD) and left.
The worst part about all of this is I don't really care too much that they broke the door. Sometimes people drink and make dumb decisions. If they pay the store manager ($50 was probably not enough) enough to pay for the door, then great. I'm sure many other people wouldn't have the "sh*t happens" attitude about that as I do, but whatever, I could live with it.
The part that is embarassing, is the fabrication of the story. That is completely unnecessary and outright wrong.
Also curious as to why the story was fabricated. Did they think it would be a funny story to tell? Did someone confront them back at the US camp about something and they made the story up on the spot?
I think this is where the whole, "Ryan Lochte is dumb as a post" comes into play. Assuming this new narrative is true -- and I'm certainly leaning that way right now -- I'm guessing the entire incident happened and the guys were thinking, "wow...that was kind of wild" and it was pretty much over. Then Lochte had a microphone in his face -- as he often does -- and decided to tell a wild story full of pretty significant embellishments (i.e., 99% BS). The other guys probably thought, "WTF are you doing, Ryan?" but ultimately went with it.
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Just another cover-up by those damn Rio officials.
Oh, wait....
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And now the video (http://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/olimpiadas/rio2016/noticia/2016/08/video-do-posto-de-gasolina-mostra-confusao-com-nadadores-americanos.html). Unfortunately, I don't do Portuguese.
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And now the video (http://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/olimpiadas/rio2016/noticia/2016/08/video-do-posto-de-gasolina-mostra-confusao-com-nadadores-americanos.html). Unfortunately, I don't do Portuguese.
Is it just me, or does Brazilian Portugeuse sound like a perfect cross between French and Russian?
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And now the video (http://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/olimpiadas/rio2016/noticia/2016/08/video-do-posto-de-gasolina-mostra-confusao-com-nadadores-americanos.html). Unfortunately, I don't do Portuguese.
Guns were drawn
From an online translator:
Images of security cameras of a gas station in Rio show an uproar among four American swimmers and establishment. According to the police, based on images and testimonies, was ruled out that athletes have been assaulted, as had been reported by Ryan Lochte and James Feigen. The researchers said this Thursday (18) that they invented the theft.
The video, obtained by Globo TV, shows the swimmers coming out of the bathroom. According to the police and officials at the border, they robbed the place. For this reason, would have been prevented by security guards to leave the establishment that is in Barra da Tijuca, the path between the Lagoon, where they were at a party, and the Olympic Village.
The images show one of the swimmers by raising their hands while the safety cover. In an interview to a TV station, shortly after the episode, at dawn on Sunday (14) Lotche had said that the group was approached by men dressed in police.
The Globe had access with exclusivity to the testimony of officials of the tour, which details what they saw on sunday morning:
- at around 6am in the morning, a taxi model sedão parked inside the post for what the members use the bathroom;
- pesembarcaram of the car four men of great physical and height, one of them called attention to have hair almost bluish white, that photography is recognized as Ryan Lochte;
- the security guard told us at one point, the manager was very nervous and worried, called The declarente so that the ajudassse to monitor visitors who were "clutter" in the back of the establishment;
- the manager showed the bathroom where men had broken soap dispenser, paper and a plate of iron with banner information. Inform the declarant has engaged the 190, being asked to all wait on site until the arrival of a car of the Military Police the car did not arrive;
- the four men entered the taxi with the intention of leaving the site, but the taxi driver complied with the request of the security guards and remained stationary
- The SWIMMERS SHOUTED PROFANITY several times
- the men landed again and knocked the door of the vehicle violently and they were much altered, aggressive and clearly drunk
- a man recognized by photography as Joseph Gunnar Bentz showed a note of $20, stretching it with both hands and talking debochadamente in Portuguese too bad: "Come dollars! 60 reais"
- that the declarant and his friend showed his credentials and identified themselves as agents of security. Ryam Lochte and James Feigen left running.
- one of the security guards said that he and his friend stopped the other two and showed the plama hand (position of "stop"), indicating that it would accept the twenty dollars
- Lochte and feigen retornanaram to gasoline station, aggressive, toward the back of the declarant;
- according to the evidence, another security pulled out his gun and yelled for everyone to stop and sit on the floor;
- with the exception of Ryan Lochte, the remaining obdeceram;
- another safety drew his gun and shouted for everyone to stop;
- the declarant placed a hand on the breast of lochte and pushed him toward the ground, a
fact observed by foreigners, who are sat;
- an employee of the Unimed offered help in translation;
- after a few minutes of conversation with men received this twenty dollars and another hundred reais on grounds of damage caused in the bathroom;
- the official of the Unimed spoke to foreigners that they could go;
- not sure, but believes that foreigners have returned to the same taxi in which had arrived around 6h20 or 6h30 when the taxi went out of the place;
- the car of the PM; had not yet reached the site until 7am
- drew the attention of men talking in a loud voice: "You broke the plate"
- everyone rushed to the area of pumps, in front of the station;
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That's what so weird about this. I mean so what that they broke a door when they needed to pee and that a bunch of guys 'solved' the problem with wallet cash? Truly, that should have been the end of the story.
'Yeah, I might have exercised some poor judgement early this morning but it's all good and nobody got hurt.' But to fabricate this international incident and lie? Now THAT'S stupid.
As my dad used to say: "We're a little disappointed about what you did. We're very disappointed that you lied about it."
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WHOA! WHOA! WHOA! Matt G. is clearly guilty of character assassination for even suggesting Lochte wasn't on the up and up. Hopefully he shows more restraint with the Gabby Douglas story. 8-)
Attack all you want now. I just asked to wait for the facts before doing it.
Silly, I know. :(
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I think the best possible spin at this point would be for Lochte to try to pass it off as a misunderstanding and then an exaggeration. They were trying to leave; someone with a gun (i.e., the security guard) stopped them; the person with the gun was not a "real cop"; the person with the gun asked for money; they gave him money but not the phones and credentials; and then they left. Frankly this is roughly consistent with story that they told. Not completely, mind you -- he still lied about some pretty important details. Then chalk the rest up to language barrier, misunderstanding, drunkenness, etc.
Being drunk and potential cultural differences could come into play. In the US, if I vandalize your business and am getting ready to leave the scene, and you flash your gun at me and tell me to stay and pay for the damage, you've probably committed a more serious crime than I did. And I might well view that as a shake down -- and if a douchebag characterize it as being "robbed". Add a language barrier and lots of alcohol...and well...
This is not a defense of Lochte, as I think he definitely lied and embellished what happened. He shouldn't have trashed the bathroom, shouldn't have lied to everyone (his mother, the press, authorities) and shouldn't have fled the country leaving his friends to face the authorities. I'm just guessing this is how he will "spin" it.
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I think the best possible spin at this point would be for Lochte to try to pass it off as a misunderstanding and then an exaggeration. They were trying to leave; someone with a gun (i.e., the security guard) stopped them; the person with the gun was not a "real cop"; the person with the gun asked for money; they gave him money but not the phones and credentials; and then they left. Frankly this is roughly consistent with story that they told. Not completely, mind you -- he still lied about some pretty important details. Then chalk the rest up to language barrier, misunderstanding, drunkenness, etc.
Being drunk and potential cultural differences could come into play. In the US, if I vandalize your business and am getting ready to leave the scene, and you flash your gun at me and tell me to stay and pay for the damage, you've probably committed a more serious crime than I did. And I might well view that as a shake down -- and if a douchebag characterize it as being "robbed". Add a language barrier and lots of alcohol...and well...
This is not a defense of Lochte, as I think he definitely lied and embellished what happened. He shouldn't have trashed the bathroom, shouldn't have lied to everyone (his mother, the press, authorities) and shouldn't have fled the country leaving his friends to face the authorities. I'm just guessing this is how he will "spin" it.
Everyone is jumping on the American's. Having watched the video, there is next to no evidence that they caused the damage. A sign (advertisement) fell over when one went into the bathroom.
They quite calmly went back to their taxi, where they were forced out by people with badges. Then forced onto the ground and when Lochte stood up, a gun was directed at him. They were then forced to hand over money for "alleged vandalism" and to not call the police (which they wouldn't have understood since it wasn't english).
Certainly sounds like a robbery. The videos people posted and I've found on here do not have violent and belligerent americans, except for them wanting to leave.
As for inconsistencies. There are way more on the side of Brazil/gas station owner. Guns were drawn/not drawn, police were called/not called, they used the bathroom/they urinated in an alley.
Seems like a mess and most likely a combination of the gas station trying to extort money off wealthy americans, language complications, and embellishment.
Frankly, if I were telling the story, I would have said I was robbed at gunpoint, that's what happened. They were illegally detained at gunpoint and forced to hand over money.
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Everyone is jumping on the American's. Having watched the video, there is next to no evidence that they caused the damage. A sign (advertisement) fell over when one went into the bathroom.
They quite calmly went back to their taxi, where they were forced out by people with badges. Then forced onto the ground and when Lochte stood up, a gun was directed at him. They were then forced to hand over money for "alleged vandalism" and to not call the police (which they wouldn't have understood since it wasn't english).
Certainly sounds like a robbery. The videos people posted and I've found on here do not have violent and belligerent americans, except for them wanting to leave.
As for inconsistencies. There are way more on the side of Brazil/gas station owner. Guns were drawn/not drawn, police were called/not called, they used the bathroom/they urinated in an alley.
Seems like a mess and most likely a combination of the gas station trying to extort money off wealthy americans, language complications, and embellishment.
Frankly, if I were telling the story, I would have said I was robbed at gunpoint, that's what happened. They were illegally detained at gunpoint and forced to hand over money.
Honestly, I'd says I am pretty well on the fence about this one at this point. Supposedly, a couple of the guys have now admitted the initial story was a fabrication. But, if it went down pretty much how you described, then the original story is an embellishment, but not completely ridiculous. If they didn't do the damage, I could understand describing it as being "robbed." Even if they did do the damage, it's not completely ridiculous to refer to it that way if a security guard points a gun at you and demands money.
At this point...it's still fluid. I'd like to hear what the other swimmers have said at this point. As if often the case, the truth will probably reside somewhere in the middle with both sides trying to minimize their fault in the situation.
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Everyone is jumping on the American's. Having watched the video, there is next to no evidence that they caused the damage. A sign (advertisement) fell over when one went into the bathroom.
They quite calmly went back to their taxi, where they were forced out by people with badges. Then forced onto the ground and when Lochte stood up, a gun was directed at him. They were then forced to hand over money for "alleged vandalism" and to not call the police (which they wouldn't have understood since it wasn't english).
Certainly sounds like a robbery. The videos people posted and I've found on here do not have violent and belligerent americans, except for them wanting to leave.
As for inconsistencies. There are way more on the side of Brazil/gas station owner. Guns were drawn/not drawn, police were called/not called, they used the bathroom/they urinated in an alley.
Seems like a mess and most likely a combination of the gas station trying to extort money off wealthy americans, language complications, and embellishment.
Frankly, if I were telling the story, I would have said I was robbed at gunpoint, that's what happened. They were illegally detained at gunpoint and forced to hand over money.
You're trying really hard - harder even than the other three swimmers involved - to rationalize the whole thing away.
The lies and other behavior of the gas static owner and employees should be scrutinized and have consequences, but that doesn't make the vandalism and lies of the swimmers go away.
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Honestly, I'd says I am pretty well on the fence about this one at this point. Supposedly, a couple of the guys have now admitted the initial story was a fabrication. But, if it went down pretty much how you described, then the original story is an embellishment, but not completely ridiculous. If they didn't do the damage, I could understand describing it as being "robbed." Even if they did do the damage, it's not completely ridiculous to refer to it that way if a security guard points a gun at you and demands money.
At this point...it's still fluid. I'd like to hear what the other swimmers have said at this point. As if often the case, the truth will probably reside somewhere in the middle with both sides trying to minimize their fault in the situation.
My quoting you was not at all calling you out. My apologies. It was more agreement and commenting that everyone is awful quick to throw the American's under the bus.
I'm also waiting to hear all the details. Until then, Lochte and others get the benefit of the doubt, with the exception of Lochte being an obvious idiot.
You're trying really hard - harder even than the other three swimmers involved - to rationalize the whole thing away.
The lies and other behavior of the gas static owner and employees should be scrutinized and have consequences, but that doesn't make the vandalism and lies of the swimmers go away.
Not trying hard at all, just updating with facts as they are available. Right now what we know for a fact is:
They used a gas station restroom.
They were accused of vandalizing a poster and soap dispenser (no proof they actually did).
They were forced out of their taxi and held at gunpoint until they handed over money.
They returned to the olympic village without any cash or wallets.
I defend them only because everyone is accusing them of things like going to brothels, illegal drug deals, etc. And at the moment, they are still the victims of an armed robbery (that is what the guards would have been charged with in the US).
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My quoting you was not at all calling you out. My apologies. It was more agreement and commenting that everyone is awful quick to throw the American's under the bus.
I'm also waiting to hear all the details. Until then, Lochte and others get the benefit of the doubt, with the exception of Lochte being an obvious idiot.
Not trying hard at all, just updating with facts as they are available. Right now what we know for a fact is:
They used a gas station restroom.
They were accused of vandalizing a poster and soap dispenser (no proof they actually did).
They were forced out of their taxi and held at gunpoint until they handed over money.
They returned to the olympic village without any cash or wallets.
I defend them only because everyone is accusing them of things like going to brothels, illegal drug deals, etc. And at the moment, they are still the victims of an armed robbery (that is what the guards would have been charged with in the US).
I'll add the some you keep conveniently forgetting to your list:
They vandalized a bathroom (mirrors, not just a soap dispenser), and lied to authorities and the press (and by extension, the world).
Guess we now know why you chose 'forgetful.' :D
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Olympic Update ...
After 9 events in the Decathlon, Ashton Eaton is leading big with 8104 points All that is left is the 1500 meters. Eaton PB is 4:14, he would need a 4:02 to set a new WR (9045 which he set last year). So a new WR is unlikely but a gold medal is very likely.
In 5th Place is Zach Ziemek with 7844 points. Zach is 153 points away from the Bronze medal. A long-shot at this point. But he should smash his PB of 8413 set at the Olympic trials in July. He needs to run at 4:58 or better in the 1500 (his PB is 4:42 set last month).
Zach is from Lake Park High School in Roselle (IL). In 2011 he won so many events at the IL 3A state meet for Track that he alone would have finished in 5th place in the TEAM competition!
Zach just graduated from Wisconsin is the current NCAA indoor Heptathlon champion (7 events) and Wisconsin and Big 10 record holder in the Decathlon.
Go Zach!
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I'll add the some you keep conveniently forgetting to your list:
They vandalized a bathroom (mirrors, not just a soap dispenser), and lied to authorities and the press (and by extension, the world).
Guess we now know why you chose 'forgetful.' :D
I've seen about 10 different reports about what was "supposedly vandalized," all stories reportedly from the same petrol owner. Not forgetting anything, just waiting to see something consistent and proof, not just the gas station owner saying it happened and changing his story about a dozen times.
Regardless. Lochte is a dumb as a stump at at least owes an apology.
In more important olympic news.
Ashton Eaton...damn, forget JFB, I'm definitely choosing him as my one athlete.
And
Dalilah Muhammad, dominating performance in the rain. Impressive athletes.
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Guess we now know why you chose 'forgetful.' :D
Funny reason for my handle. When I first joined this site, I was a very occasional visitor and had forgot my handle and password about 6 times.
In setting up account number whatever, my wife said it would be easier if you weren't so forgetful...and there it was. Haven't forgotten it since.
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Usaine is insane.
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Usaine is insane.
The guy has another gear.
Loved watching the semifinal interaction between Bolt and DeGrasse yesterday.
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Usaine is insane.
I've heard he may not actually be 100% human, but have some robotic modifications to improve speed and strength.
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Lochte & Co. are dopes and liars.
Can we quit trying to paint them as something different?
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Lochte & Co. are dopes and liars.
Can we quit trying to paint them as something different?
Looks are everything. Ever heard David Beckham speak? It's like he mouth-sexed a can of helium. You think Ryan Reynolds got this far on his superior acting method?
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Brazil fans chanting Italia, like their Italian...Did anyone else hear about the Feench guy that was booed at the track when he got his silver medal the other day?
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Lochte & Co. are dopes and liars.
Can we quit trying to paint them as something different?
Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever get the full truth about what happened. The Brazil police made it clear that if the swimmers didn't agree with their account, they would be prosecuted.
Feigen was forced to pay an additional $11k to leave the country.
Moral of the story to me, if you go to Brazil, you may be confronted at gunpoint at a gas station and forced to hand over your money by security. If you call it a robbery, you'll be threatened with prosecution and be forced to hand over $11k to leave.
It's pretty clear that Lochte's original story was grossly exaggerated, but it remains that they were held at gunpoint and forced to hand over their money.
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Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever get the full truth about what happened. The Brazil police made it clear that if the swimmers didn't agree with their account, they would be prosecuted.
Feigen was forced to pay an additional $11k to leave the country.
Moral of the story to me, if you go to Brazil, you may be confronted at gunpoint at a gas station and forced to hand over your money by security. If you call it a robbery, you'll be threatened with prosecution and be forced to hand over $11k to leave.
It's pretty clear that Lochte's original story was grossly exaggerated, but it remains that they were held at gunpoint and forced to hand over their money.
Not sure how you arrive at your conclusions, but OK. You do what you have to do to make yourself happy, including working very hard to find "evidence" to make Lochte seem like less of a dope and a liar.
You clearly support our heroic athletes and must be a more patriotic American than the rest of us!
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Lochte is a moron, a liar, and an idiot. And yes, I realize moron and idiot are synonyms, but I feel that he's stupid enough that it bears repeating how mind-numbingly imbicilic he is.
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Lochte is a moron, a liar, and an idiot. And yes, I realize moron and idiot are synonyms, but I feel that he's stupid enough that it bears repeating how mind-numbingly imbicilic he is.
I agree with this analysis.
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Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever get the full truth about what happened. The Brazil police made it clear that if the swimmers didn't agree with their account, they would be prosecuted.
Feigen was forced to pay an additional $11k to leave the country.
Moral of the story to me, if you go to Brazil, you may be confronted at gunpoint at a gas station and forced to hand over your money by security. If you call it a robbery, you'll be threatened with prosecution and be forced to hand over $11k to leave.
It's pretty clear that Lochte's original story was grossly exaggerated, but it remains that they were held at gunpoint and forced to hand over their money.
If there was ANY truth to your theory about police coercion of the confession, all three swimmers would have held a press conference to tell the "true" story the microsecond they left Brazil because they wouldn't be subject to extradition. The fact that they haven't contradicts your excuse.
Face it - were held at gunpoint (for good reason) and forced to pay for their drunken vandalism, and then told a lie to make Brazilians look bad and themselves look good. Your constant excuses about what drunk "kids" do don't hold water - Lochtke is a 32-year old and has been traveling to international meets for 15 years, not some 19-year old college kid away from home for the first time. Even as historically stupid as he is, he should have known better.
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Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever get the full truth about what happened. The Brazil police made it clear that if the swimmers didn't agree with their account, they would be prosecuted.
Ye of little faith.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/gunnar-bentz-reveals-details-about-what-he-told-brazilian-police-about-night-with-ryan-lochte-001057258.html
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Ye of little faith.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/gunnar-bentz-reveals-details-about-what-he-told-brazilian-police-about-night-with-ryan-lochte-001057258.html
So, no vandalizing doors, mirrors or soap dispensers, and were held at gunpoint and money demanded of them. That's called a robbery.
Only damage was a loosely attached advertisement poster. You actually can see this in the video on the Brazil news, he doesn't intentionally damage anything just grabs at the wall when he goes to use the restroom, the poster falls off.
So facts of the story.
1. Lochte is a moronic idiot of poor intelligence.
2. Four US swimmers were robbed/extorted at gunpoint.
3. Brazil indicted two US athletes prior to questioning the other two victims. There is no way to get an honest story from people, if you indicted the other two who told their story. You pretty much are saying, agree with our narrative or you go to jail.
If the exact same thing happened in the US, the security guards would be in jail and the owners of the gas station would be desperately trying to settle out of court for $10-50k for illegally detaining the individuals.
Lochte would still be an moronic idiot of poor intelligence.
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Not sure how you arrive at your conclusions, but OK. You do what you have to do to make yourself happy, including working very hard to find "evidence" to make Lochte seem like less of a dope and a liar.
You clearly support our heroic athletes and must be a more patriotic American than the rest of us!
I called Lochte dumb as a stump and said he at the very least owed an apology.
How I came to my conclusions is that before talking to the other American's they indicted Lochte and Feigen. They hadn't even heard from 2 key witnesses and were already filing charges against two for going against the narrative they liked.
The link Benny provides contradicts much of the narrative (e.g. breaking doors, mirrors, soap dispensers etc.). Rather it confirms that they were held at gunpoint and extorted of money.
Feigen was then forced to pay $11k to leave the country, despite never doing anything wrong. It has been reported that Feigen's report to the police closely match what actually happened. He never lied to police. He did call it a robbery, which I agree with.
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In more important olympic news.
Congrats to the American women for taking home the Gold in the 4x100. Dominating race and almost broke 41 from lane 1. Big disadvantage from that lane and didn't remotely matter.
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Ye of little faith.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/gunnar-bentz-reveals-details-about-what-he-told-brazilian-police-about-night-with-ryan-lochte-001057258.html
Wait - he forgot to mention that they were coerced by Brazilian police!
Lol
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The link Benny provides contradicts much of the narrative (e.g. breaking doors, mirrors, soap dispensers etc.).
You might want to read it more carefully. He never said it didn't happen - he said he didn't witness it happening. Big difference.
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Wait - he forgot to mention that they were coerced by Brazilian police!
Lol
His public report differs from what the Brazillian police say he said. And why would he say he was coerced, there is no way in hell that his attorney or the US would allow him to say that.
You might want to read it more carefully. He never said it didn't happen - he said he didn't witness it happening. Big difference.
Yes, there are zero witnesses that saw it happened. Just reports from the gas station owner in which every time he talks it is different things being damaged. The only one there is proof of is a poster.
Lochte is a moron. He doesn't deserve any support.
The other 3 though were robbed at gunpoint, did nothing wrong, two were yanked off planes. The third was forced to pay $11k for telling the truth (Brazil attorneys say his report matched the stories that came out)...they deserve our support, they were victims of a crime.
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At this point, two people on earth - forgetful and Lochte - think the swimmers got a bad deal.
Elite company.
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Yes, there are zero witnesses that saw it happened.
Wrong yet again. It only means that this one guy didn't see it happen. That does not mean zero witnesses saw it.
RIF
I'm done with this one. Sorry about your son's IQ, Mr. Lochte.
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You might want to read it more carefully. He never said it didn't happen - he said he didn't witness it happening. Big difference.
No, he said "to my knowledge, there was no damage done to the door or the inside of the restroom".
He also states that the frames were removed from the video that would substantiate his story. The bathroom door is square in the middle of the videos. If they forced it open or damaged it, those videos would show it.
There is a reason some frames are being removed in Brazil's reports. There is also a reason, why the Brazilian DJ (who translated for the Americans) is the only person at the scene saying a gun was not drawn. There were multiple other witnesses confirming that guns were drawn and pointed at the Americans, the security guards even originally confirmed pulling their guns (now they are not speaking).
Lochte is a liar. The Rio police/Brazil are also lying about the narrative. Bentz's story when he got back to the US indicates that the American's were victims and is probably the only true story out there, but is still carefully worded to ensure not raising more diplomatic problems.
If Lochte had just told the real story as it occurred, the world would have looked at the swimmers as victims. Lochte though was an idiot, it changed the narrative and now many, including you look at these individuals as terrible.
It's also terrible that this whole Lochte incident has detracted from the narrative and spirit of the olympics. Instead of focusing on things like D'Agostino helping another fallen runner up and then both helping each other to the finish and D'Agostino getting help to a wheel chair, the world is looking at Lochte's story.
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Does anyone understand scoring in diving. I watch it all the time and look at two consecutive dives and can't the difference. One gets 9's the other get 7's.
I like the sport as I find it crazy how much they can spin and what they can do, but really don't understand the scoring.
That said. Tom Daley from the UK is pretty insane.
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Watching women's BMX. Only thing I can think about is excitebike.... am I the only one.
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No, he said "to my knowledge, there was no damage done to the door or the inside of the restroom".
He also states that the frames were removed from the video that would substantiate his story. The bathroom door is square in the middle of the videos. If they forced it open or damaged it, those videos would show it.
There is a reason some frames are being removed in Brazil's reports. There is also a reason, why the Brazilian DJ (who translated for the Americans) is the only person at the scene saying a gun was not drawn. There were multiple other witnesses confirming that guns were drawn and pointed at the Americans, the security guards even originally confirmed pulling their guns (now they are not speaking).
Lochte is a liar. The Rio police/Brazil are also lying about the narrative. Bentz's story when he got back to the US indicates that the American's were victims and is probably the only true story out there, but is still carefully worded to ensure not raising more diplomatic problems.
If Lochte had just told the real story as it occurred, the world would have looked at the swimmers as victims. Lochte though was an idiot, it changed the narrative and now many, including you look at these individuals as terrible.
It's also terrible that this whole Lochte incident has detracted from the narrative and spirit of the olympics. Instead of focusing on things like D'Agostino helping another fallen runner up and then both helping each other to the finish and D'Agostino getting help to a wheel chair, the world is looking at Lochte's story.
Narrative? Spirit? Brazil has been awful from the bid and through the entire games.
http://m.imgur.com/gallery/HHcTH
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Does anyone understand scoring in diving. I watch it all the time and look at two consecutive dives and can't the difference. One gets 9's the other get 7's.
I like the sport as I find it crazy how much they can spin and what they can do, but really don't understand the scoring.
That said. Tom Daley from the UK is pretty insane.
As a former diver, it's incredibly hard to notice nuances of dives especially in real time. Most people just notice the splash.
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Does anyone understand scoring in diving. I watch it all the time and look at two consecutive dives and can't the difference. One gets 9's the other get 7's.
I like the sport as I find it crazy how much they can spin and what they can do, but really don't understand the scoring.
That said. Tom Daley from the UK is pretty insane.
I read an article about what judges see in gynmastics that the lay person does not. I think it is probably similar for diving.
But I was able to call the dives regularly within 1 point - often within half a point just because I had read that article. I will see if I cxan find it to post.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/olympics-gymnastics-judges-deductions_us_57a91c35e4b06adc11f139da
Normally, I just watched the routine in general. After reading this, I started watching for specific things.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/olympics-gymnastics-judges-deductions_us_57a91c35e4b06adc11f139da
Normally, I just watched the routine in general. After reading this, I started watching for specific things.
Thanks. These are some of my favorite olympic sports to watch, but have struggled at times to understand the nuances of scoring. Because I've seen more gymnastics, I'm better at guessing the scores.
For Diving though, I've struggled, particularly the women where I had a hard time discerning the differences in the dives between the Chinese and everyone else. Their splash was less, but the other aspects and verticality of entry seemed similar. My goal is by next olympics to understand the nuances better.
As a former diver, it's incredibly hard to notice nuances of dives especially in real time. Most people just notice the splash.
That's awesome. Mad respect for divers.
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So, no vandalizing doors, mirrors or soap dispensers, and were held at gunpoint and money demanded of them. That's called a robbery.
Only damage was a loosely attached advertisement poster. You actually can see this in the video on the Brazil news, he doesn't intentionally damage anything just grabs at the wall when he goes to use the restroom, the poster falls off.
So facts of the story.
1. Lochte is a moronic idiot of poor intelligence.
2. Four US swimmers were robbed/extorted at gunpoint.
3. Brazil indicted two US athletes prior to questioning the other two victims. There is no way to get an honest story from people, if you indicted the other two who told their story. You pretty much are saying, agree with our narrative or you go to jail.
If the exact same thing happened in the US, the security guards would be in jail and the owners of the gas station would be desperately trying to settle out of court for $10-50k for illegally detaining the individuals.
Lochte would still be an moronic idiot of poor intelligence.
Not to stick up for the dude(lochte), but he did get out of dodge before the chit really hit the fan and the others were still sleepin it off.
Gotta love it-Brazil wants to throw the book at them?
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Watching women's BMX. Only thing I can think about is excitebike.... am I the only one.
I was at work the other day watching a different TV than most of the rest of the crew. They had some synchronized swimming on, I had live Excitebike. Of course, as soon as I told them to turn over to the good stuff, they changed events.
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Not to stick up for the dude(lochte), but he did get out of dodge before the chit really hit the fan and the others were still sleepin it off.
Which just means he has a better lawyer than the others.
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Probably the most dominant USA team was Women's Water Polo, coached by Adam Krikorian, whose older brother, the founder of Slingbox, died of a heart attack at the start of the games. The team honored their coach by placing their Gold Medals around his neck.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mark-purdy/ci_30269106/purdy-golden-moment-adam-krikorian-and-usa-womens
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I was at work the other day watching a different TV than most of the rest of the crew. They had some synchronized swimming on, I had live Excitebike. Of course, as soon as I told them to turn over to the good stuff, they changed events.
Pajon is unstoppable in that event. I think this is the best olympics in Colombian history.
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Congratulations to Gwen Jorgenson for winning the US first ever Women's Triathlon gold medal.
Jorgeson grew up in Waukesha (Waukesha South) where she was a standout in track, cross country and swimming. She went to Madison and was the Big 10 champion in 5000 and 3000 in track, and named an all-america. She also qualified for the NCAA championship in cross country and the big ten championship in swimming. In 2008 she graduated with master's degree in accounting, passed the CPA exam, and worked for Ernst & Young in Milwaukee as a tax accountant.
In 2010 she quit her job and dedicated herself full-time to the triathlon. She even moved overseas to train more. She now lives in St. Paul.
She was 2014 and 2015 world champion making her the overwhelming favorite to win gold. They talked about how the pressure to win was almost suffocating because she was such a favorite. When she won she burst into tears and uncontrollable emotion ... you could she the relief and joy come pouring out.
It was a good moment and one why I watch the Olympics.
http://www.gwenjorgensen.com/
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Congratulations to Gwen Jorgenson for winning the US first ever Women's Triathlon gold medal.
Jorgeson grew up in Waukesha (Waukesha South) where she was a standout in track, cross country and swimming. She went to Madison and was the Big 10 champion in 5000 and 3000 in track, and named an all-america. She also qualified for the NCAA championship in cross country and the big ten championship in swimming. In 2008 she graduated with master's degree in accounting, passed the CPA exam, and worked for Ernst & Young in Milwaukee as a tax accountant.
In 2010 she quit her job and dedicated herself full-time to the triathlon. She even moved overseas to train more. She now lives in St. Paul.
She was 2014 and 2015 world champion making her the overwhelming favorite to win gold. They talked about how the pressure to win was almost suffocating because she was such a favorite. When she won she burst into tears and uncontrollable emotion ... you could she the relief and joy come pouring out.
It was a good moment and one why I watch the Olympics.
http://www.gwenjorgensen.com/
Wow! Thanks for the info. Never would have known all that. It always seems to be more rewarding to hear when they've grown up in the community of which I've called home for the last 30 years. I hope the Utes take notice
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Thanks. These are some of my favorite olympic sports to watch, but have struggled at times to understand the nuances of scoring. Because I've seen more gymnastics, I'm better at guessing the scores.
For Diving though, I've struggled, particularly the women where I had a hard time discerning the differences in the dives between the Chinese and everyone else. Their splash was less, but the other aspects and verticality of entry seemed similar. My goal is by next olympics to understand the nuances better.
That's awesome. Mad respect for divers.
Even though I like watching diving, gymnastics and figure skating, I go in recognizing how flawed the competition is because of the scoring aspect.
The top performers in each sport have built-in advantages -- their reputations earn them points before they ever attempt a dive or a routine. A relative unknown or non-favorite can perform the exact same dive as the favorite and perform it as well or better, but it seems to me, as a long-time observer, that the unknown/non-favorite will get lower scores "just because."
The regulations have been tightened, and I don't think it's corrupt as it once was, but it is a flaw. Nothing you can do about it, though, which is why I said I go in knowing about it before I sit down to watch.
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'Effin' Russian judges.
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'Effin' Russian judges.
It is telling that Boxing had to send judges home this time. A sport that can't get past its crooked reputation at all.
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RSA she/he wins da 800. Dis is fooked up, hey?
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Neymar striking home the winning penalty and breaking out in tears as he ran away celebrating was probably the moment of the Olympics thus far. Brazil finally has Olympic gold on home soil. Great final, great moment. Couldn't have scripted a better ending, especially after 7-1 a year ago.
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Awesome seeing an American man win the 1500! Congrats to Centrowitz - great strategy and strong finish. His family's reaction was classic.
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Neymar striking home the winning penalty and breaking out in tears as he ran away celebrating was probably the moment of the Olympics thus far. Brazil finally has Olympic gold on home soil. Great final, great moment. Couldn't have scripted a better ending, especially after 7-1 a year ago.
Nah, screw Neymar and Brazilian soccer. Neymar fouled someone really had today and he ended up being the one on the ground crying in pain. No respect for him.
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Strange 5k with 3 DQs (including an American - Paul Chelimo, who'd finished second). And the timeless Bernard Lagat moves into the Bronze at age 41.
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Strange 5k with 3 DQs (including an American - Paul Chelimo, who'd finished second). And the timeless Bernard Lagat moves into the Bronze at age 41.
I agree ... I can imagine all the national associations are going to protest like crazy. Either they reinstate all of them or DQ Mo Farah for shoving Clemino at the start of the bell lap.
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Gold in men's and women's 4x400! Nice final legs by Felix and Merritt.
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This is one of the best olympics I can remember for the US, medal wise.
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This is one of the best olympics I can remember for the US, medal wise.
Most (currently 115) since 1984 in LA. Had a crazy 174 in LA, but USSR, East Germany and 12 others boycotted.
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6 medals for the US track team in events 800 and up. Most since 1912 (no typo)! And the Men's marathon is tomorrow morning and Galen Rupp is a legit medal contender.
800 meter - Murphy Silver
3000 meter Steeple Chase - Jager Silver (Men), Coburn Bronze (women)
1500 meter - Centrowitz Gold (Men), Simpson Bronze (women)
5000 meter - Chelimo (Silver) ... just reinstated
Additionally
Women's marathon - All three Americans in top 10
5000 - All three American men qualified, Kenya zero!
10000 - Galen Rupp 5th place
Americans were equal to Kenya and Ethiopia in the distance events. Something many thought was not possible.
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Yep - great to see the US doing so well in the longer distances.
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Ryan lochte is dumb.
The US swimmers did NOT get extorted or robbed. They paid for whatever they broke, if only the sign/poster. Then Lochte couldn't tell the truth afterwards - for whatever reason (I'd guess he was too intoxicated during the incident to remember it all)
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Ryan lochte is dumb.
The US swimmers did NOT get extorted or robbed. They paid for whatever they broke, if only the sign/poster. Then Lochte couldn't tell the truth afterwards - for whatever reason (I'd guess he was too intoxicated during the incident to remember it all)
Yep. He had a chance to make it right, but when asked the question of whether they got robbed or made to pay for their damages, the best he could come up with is "I don't know."
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Yep. He had a chance to make it right, but when asked the question of whether they got robbed or made to pay for their damages, the best he could come up with is "I don't know."
Are you going to criticize the Brazil police and government for stating that the bathroom was vandalized when people have now went to look for the evidence and found no damage done to the bathrooms?
In Brazil they have even dropped the bathroom damage from the narrative and only talk about the sandwich poster? Brazillian authorities will not release all the video, only their edited versions, which Bentz says removes scenes that support their story.
The swimmers were held at gunpoint at forced to hand over all their cash to pay for a sandwich poster advertisement that was admittedly poorly attached to the wall. The type of advertisement provided for free. The damages were next to zero if not zero. Paying for damages would imply, they paid for the cost of the damages, not forced to hand over all their cash at gunpoint, the latter is extortion or robbery in the US. Their mistake is that in Brazil that is not extortion or robbery, it is business as usual.
Again, Lochte was a moron, but if he would have just came out and told the true story, the media would have been all over how American swimmers held at gunpoint and extorted of all their cash for a sandwich advertisement. Instead, Lochte managed to make the Americans look bad and place the focus on his idiotic behavior.
The worst though is still for Feigen. $11k for telling the truth in his police report. The Austrailian swimmers robbed of $1000 did the right thing and refused to talk to police or file a police report.
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I think lochte got caught up in the "gotcha" moment. This often happens when drinking is involved. They were morons for putting themselves in to this position. Having a little too much fun, celebrating, etc...but they forgot, they were not in Kansas. Foreign countries have different sets of rules for foreigners and Americans. They love to play with us. with all the serious chit going on every day in these,countries, this should have been a "move along,nothing to see here" moment. BUT, what do we have here? Americans? An American Olympian? An American Olympian with a gold medal?
Get your asses back to America and party your brains out, but now, mr. Lochte probably cost himself some serious coin from potential and/or existing sponsors. It's not like this dude is 18 yet, or is he? Did he skip the class on do's and don't' of d!cking around in foreign countries?
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The Austrailian swimmers robbed of $1000 did the right thing and refused to talk to police or file a police report didn't lie.
FIFY
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Awesome to see Rupp take the Bronze in the marathon! Continued resurgence of US distance running.
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Nah, screw Neymar and Brazilian soccer. Neymar fouled someone really had today and he ended up being the one on the ground crying in pain. No respect for him.
I'm not a big soccer fan but that was an entertaining match and, as Brew said, the ending was a great moment. The truth about the bolded part of your comment is that the flopping/over reacting/generally being aghast after every play is part of the game. It definitely detracts from the game but it's ingrained in the players (much like every wide receiver after any pass they don't catch). I agree it's whiney poor sportsmanship, unfortunately you see it on both sides of the ball in EVERY soccer game - one reason i'm not a big fan.
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In a positive note, US pole vaulter San Kendricks (US Army Reserve) stopped mid-run during a vault when he heard the Star Spangled Banner...then went on to win the bronze!
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I'm not a big soccer fan but that was an entertaining match and, as Brew said, the ending was a great moment. The truth about the bolded part of your comment is that the flopping/over reacting/generally being aghast after every play is part of the game. It definitely detracts from the game but it's ingrained in the players (much like every wide receiver after any pass they don't catch). I agree it's whiney poor sportsmanship, unfortunately you see it on both sides of the ball in EVERY soccer game - one reason i'm not a big fan.
I wouldn't say every game to that extent. The most egregious offenders are South American players. Neymar, Cuadrado from Colombia, Suarez from Urguay, the entire Argentine team. Premier league isn't nearly as bad as the international game.
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Lochte himself admits that he lied about what happened, yet forgetfull won't give it up.
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FIFY
They also refused to file a police report or talk to police, there is a reason for that. Olympians were told to avoid interactions with police if at all possible.
And 3 American swimmers told the complete truth from the beginning.
Only Lochte lied, and it is coming out that his police report was largely accurate (he said they were robbed at gunpoint by security outside a gas station bathroom), only his public statements were inaccurate.
Quit focusing on Lochte and his lying and look at the entirety of the story and the other 3 Americans.
Spot on. As I've said. In the US, Lochte would still be getting criticism for lying/exaggeration. But they would all be considered victims and the security guards would be in jail.
I think lochte got caught up in the "gotcha" moment. This often happens when drinking is involved. They were morons for putting themselves in to this position. Having a little too much fun, celebrating, etc...but they forgot, they were not in Kansas. Foreign countries have different sets of rules for foreigners and Americans. They love to play with us. with all the serious chit going on every day in these,countries, this should have been a "move along,nothing to see here" moment. BUT, what do we have here? Americans? An American Olympian? An American Olympian with a gold medal?
Get your asses back to America and party your brains out, but now, mr. Lochte probably cost himself some serious coin from potential and/or existing sponsors. It's not like this dude is 18 yet, or is he? Did he skip the class on do's and don't' of d!cking around in foreign countries?
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I wouldn't say every game to that extent. The most egregious offenders are South American players. Neymar, Cuadrado from Colombia, Suarez from Urguay, the entire Argentine team. Premier league isn't nearly as bad as the international game.
I'm sure you are right, i don't follow enough to understand the nuances between leagues. The games i watch seem to support the stereotype.
Completely different topic:
Anyone have any thoughts on that Powerade commercial where the boxer gets his motivation through a fuzzy concussion dream while staring at the mat? I don't think it crossed the line but i wouldn't have picked that spot if i was the Ad guy at Powerade.
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Lochte himself admits that he lied about what happened, yet forgetfull won't give it up.
I've repeatedly said he lied/exaggerated. No one is contesting that and haven't been for days after more information came out.
I've repeatedly said that doesn't mean they were not victims of robbery/extortion. That is the key distinction. He lied about what happened to them. They were still held at gunpoint and forced to hand over all his money. That is why Lochte said that aspect was a matter of perspective. I guarantee if the exact same thing happened to 99% of us, we would say we were robbed/extorted at gunpoint. Honestly, if you think otherwise, you are lying to yourself.
If this happened in the US, the security guards would be in jail for armed robbery. Lochte would still have been criticized for lying/exaggeration.
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I've repeatedly said he lied/exaggerated. No one is contesting that and haven't been for days after more information came out.
I've repeatedly said that doesn't mean they were not victims of robbery/extortion. That is the key distinction. He lied about what happened to them. They were still held at gunpoint and forced to hand over all his money. That is why Lochte said that aspect was a matter of perspective. I guarantee if the exact same thing happened to 99% of us, we would say we were robbed/extorted at gunpoint. Honestly, if you think otherwise, you are lying to yourself.
If this happened in the US, the security guards would be in jail for armed robbery. Lochte would still have been criticized for lying/exaggeration.
Here's where I disagree. According to reports, the armed security told the swimmers they could pay out of their pockets or they were going to call the police. That's not extortion or robbery. I've had many friends get in similar situations. Not to mention, how many robberies/extortions involve an innocent bystander acting as translator?
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RSA she/he wins da 800. Dis is fooked up, hey?
My wife was watching with me and she looked up and asked why a man was running with the women. No way that she/he isn't genetically male.
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Here's where I disagree. According to reports, the armed security told the swimmers they could pay out of their pockets or they were going to call the police. That's not extortion or robbery. I've had many friends get in similar situations. Not to mention, how many robberies/extortions involve an innocent bystander acting as translator?
I can understand this, but the "innocent bystander" has been shown to be lying. He says at no point whatsoever were guns drawn. Numerous other witnesses (not including the americans) say at least 1 gun was drawn and pointed at the American's on more than 1 occasion. There are also the video frames that confirm this that have been deliberately edited out by Brazil authorities who refuse to release the entire video. Gooo and others seem to ignore this.
Other witnesses and both american's who have not lied at any point say they were told they had to hand over money (at gunpoint: again these scenes edited out) in order to go; not for damages as the "innocent bystander" states.
As for the police being called, these individuals have been told to avoid any interaction with police at all cost as they are corrupt and it will cost them dearly. On top of that, at the scene they were being accused of far more damage than they did (which would have made it criminal vandalism and subject to jail time).
The latter damage (e.g. bathrooms, mirrors, doors) has been refuted. The only damage was to a sandwich poster. So they were being forced to pay for nonexistent damage, under the threat of jail time.
It is the fact that the Brazil authorities have repeatedly lied and provided only altered video; and that they were facing trumped up lies about the damages that put them at risk of jail time; while at gunpoint that makes it robbery/extortion.
As I said in a previous post. If they were asked to pay for the actual damages (a sandwich poster); I'd be ok with it. Rather they were forced to hand over all of their cash (fortunately only $50). Which far exceeds the damages...that is robbery/extortion.
There were three victims in this story. Bentz, Conger and Feigen. It is for these three that I am so adamant about setting the record straight. The whole ordeal is full of lies by Brazil and Lochte. These three have been truthful and were held at gunpoint and forced to pay $50 for a poster. I'd be a rich man if I could go around selling sandwich posters for $50.
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My wife was watching with me and she looked up and asked why a man was running with the women. No way that she/he isn't genetically male.
She isn't genetically male.
It's sad that she's been mocked, humiliated, insulted and subjected to excessive scrutiny for the sin of not conforming with some Western ideals of womanhood.
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She isn't genetically male.
It's sad that she's been mocked, humiliated, insulted and subjected to excessive scrutiny for the sin of not conforming with some Western ideals of womanhood.
With all due respect there is reasonable concern. South Africa hid her medical records for years and refused to allow her to be tested. Sports organizations suspended her because of this and forced her to undergo testing. South Africa contested this and the results have never been released, but she was allowed to return to competition. Some aspects of the testing are known (they were leaked) and she is part of what is termed "intersex".
She suffers from hyperandrogenism and has been shown to have internal, non-descended testicles. The combination leads to very high levels of natural testosterone in Women as well as indicating that she has genetic/epigenetic markers consistent with being male. It's been ruled that people suffering from this can now compete as women. It is still being questioned and it is believed that the IOC is going to require that women that suffer from her condition take medications to lower testosterone to normal female levels in order to compete as a woman, because of an unfair, but natural advantage.
I'm very sensitive to the gender identity movement, but this isn't simply a "sin of not conforming to western ideals of womanhood". I assure you I would be her strongest defender if that was the case. I am actually a big proponent of transexual individuals being allowed to compete as their perceived gender, but the requirement there is that they take hormone that render them comparable to their perceived gender.
Their are actually several transgender olympians (including Chris Mosier) competing in Rio, which I love, but IOC rules state they have to prove that their hormone levels match their identified gender, if not they are not allowed to compete. The same should apply to intersex individuals, like Caster. Right now she is being provided an unfair advantage compared to her competitors.
I apologize though for the nonchalant way I commented on it. It is a complex issue and I understand how the way I stated it could come across differently than the way I view/see the issue.
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With all due respect there is reasonable concern. South Africa hid her medical records for years and refused to allow her to be tested. Sports organizations suspended her because of this and forced her to undergo testing. South Africa contested this and the results have never been released, but she was allowed to return to competition. Some aspects of the testing are known (they were leaked) and she is part of what is termed "intersex".
She suffers from hyperandrogenism and has been shown to have internal, non-descended testicles. The combination leads to very high levels of natural testosterone in Women as well as indicating that she has genetic/epigenetic markers consistent with being male. It's been ruled that people suffering from this can now compete as women. It is still being questioned and it is believed that the IOC is going to require that women that suffer from her condition take medications to lower testosterone to normal female levels in order to compete as a woman, because of an unfair, but natural advantage.
I'm very sensitive to the gender identity movement, but this isn't simply a "sin of not conforming to western ideals of womanhood". I assure you I would be her strongest defender if that was the case. I am actually a big proponent of transexual individuals being allowed to compete as their perceived gender, but the requirement there is that they take hormone that render them comparable to their perceived gender.
Their are actually several transgender olympians (including Chris Mosier) competing in Rio, which I love, but IOC rules state they have to prove that their hormone levels match their identified gender, if not they are not allowed to compete. The same should apply to intersex individuals, like Caster. Right now she is being provided an unfair advantage compared to her competitors.
Of course she has an advantage. But it's an advantage she was born with. She shouldn't be barred from competing because of that advantage any more than we would ban Yao Ming for being 5 inches taller than anyone else on the court, or ban Michael Phelps for being double-jointed in his ankles and chest, or ban Kenyan athletes who are born with physical traits that make them better long-distance runners than anyone else in the world.
Shocking news ... elite athletes aren't like the rest of us. They all have genetic advantages, some more than others. She shouldn't be punished for her advantage. The runners Semenya competes against may not have her testosterone levels, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts they have high testosterone levels compared to the vast majority of women.
The transgender issue is a red herring. Caster Semenya isn't someone who was born with the parts of one gender but self-identifies as another. She was born a woman. A woman with very high testosterone levels, but a woman nonetheless.
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Quit focusing on Lochte and his lying and look at the entirety of the story and the other 3 Americans.
OK, I'll look at the other 3 Americans - they got screwed over by their a$$hat teammate.
As for the Rio police, start a different thread if you want. This thread - "The spirit of the Olympics" - was focusing the acts of the athletes. The vast majority of them were exemplary, both as ambassadors of goodwill and as world-class athletes.
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Of course she has an advantage. But it's an advantage she was born with. She shouldn't be barred from competing because of that advantage any more than we would ban Yao Ming for being 5 inches taller than anyone else on the court, or ban Michael Phelps for being double-jointed in his ankles and chest, or ban Kenyan athletes who are born with physical traits that make them better long-distance runners than anyone else in the world.
Shocking news ... elite athletes aren't like the rest of us. They all have genetic advantages, some more than others. She shouldn't be punished for her advantage. The runners Semenya competes against may not have her testosterone levels, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts they have high testosterone levels compared to the vast majority of women.
The transgender issue is a red herring. Caster Semenya isn't someone who was born with the parts of one gender but self-identifies as another. She was born a woman. A woman with very high testosterone levels, but a woman nonetheless.
Agreed. It's really unfortunate for the others in this event, but Semenya did nothing wrong.
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Of course she has an advantage. But it's an advantage she was born with. She shouldn't be barred from competing because of that advantage any more than we would ban Yao Ming for being 5 inches taller than anyone else on the court, or ban Michael Phelps for being double-jointed in his ankles and chest, or ban Kenyan athletes who are born with physical traits that make them better long-distance runners than anyone else in the world.
Shocking news ... elite athletes aren't like the rest of us. They all have genetic advantages, some more than others. She shouldn't be punished for her advantage. The runners Semenya competes against may not have her testosterone levels, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts they have high testosterone levels compared to the vast majority of women.
The transgender issue is a red herring. Caster Semenya isn't someone who was born with the parts of one gender but self-identifies as another. She was born a woman. A woman with very high testosterone levels, but a woman nonetheless.
Clarification, she was born an individual with both male (testicles) and female (vagina/ovaries) reproductive organs. The transgender issue is not a red herring, as it poses the question of what defines gender?
If its reproductive organs, she has both, so is she male or female?
If its genenetics/epigenetics, then she has traits of both, so is she male or female?
The simple answer to this and the one I prefer, is it is a matter of identity. So, by competing as a woman, she is saying her gender is female. According to international rules, she must then have hormone levels typical of females. She does not.
As for the bolded above. It is an extremely difficult and interesting statement and one that is a huge question in the current athletic community. There are numerous genetic advantages some athletes have and you are right, we do not discriminate against these advantages. We are also now at an age where chemically, or genetically we can alter the genetic and epigenetic markers of individuals (Gattica, but even more advanced); should this be allowed and how if not how do we discern natural genetical alteration from unnatural.
Where I define a difference here is that gender, historically is a genetic advantage that we have decided to separate, because it was easy to discern differences between genders on a visual level. We now know gender is more fluid and the genetic aspects of gender are not discernible on a visual level.
So how do we separate individuals based on gender so there are no gender based advantages? Or do we just stop separating genders?
I'm actually reposting this in a new thread. Its a bit dicey of a topic, but one I would be interesting of hearing others chime in on. I'm going to ask in advance that no one goes into politics as this skirts political issues.
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Of course she has an advantage. But it's an advantage she was born with. She shouldn't be barred from competing because of that advantage any more than we would ban Yao Ming for being 5 inches taller than anyone else on the court, or ban Michael Phelps for being double-jointed in his ankles and chest, or ban Kenyan athletes who are born with physical traits that make them better long-distance runners than anyone else in the world.
Shocking news ... elite athletes aren't like the rest of us. They all have genetic advantages, some more than others. She shouldn't be punished for her advantage. The runners Semenya competes against may not have her testosterone levels, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts they have high testosterone levels compared to the vast majority of women.
The transgender issue is a red herring. Caster Semenya isn't someone who was born with the parts of one gender but self-identifies as another. She was born a woman. A woman with very high testosterone levels, but a woman nonetheless.
+1
The unfair disadvantage Caster Semenya must endure to compete for Olympic gold
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/unfair-disadvantage-caster-semenya-must-000000810.html
“Genetic conditions that enhance performance in sport include congenital mutations of the erythropoietin receptor gene leading to high levels of hemoglobin, which does not disqualify athletes,” Genel wrote. “There is no fundamental difference between congenital disorders leading to elevated testosterone levels, functional or not, and an erythropoietin receptor mutation leading to high hemoglobin.”
Put simply, there’s no reason for “congenital disorders leading to elevated testosterone levels” to disqualify athletes when genetic conditions leading to high levels of hemoglobin don’t.
Genel points to other athletes who have had genetic differences, including Michael Phelps, with his supreme flexibility and enormous feet. It’s never suggested that Phelps should step aside for the shorter Ryan Lochte because of something he can’t control. Nor is it suggested that, say, Kevin Durant should remove himself from the Olympics because he’s too close to the basketball rim.
Also, consider all the advantages certain athletes are granted without any work: wealthy parents, a city with many resources, a country with support for budding athletes, a community with excellent teachers and coaches. Of course, hard work is crucial and revered, but the Olympics would look very different if hard work was the only variable in athletic success.
The problem is that most differences are celebrated. For instance, Katie Ledecky is praised for swimming “like a guy”, while Semenya’s differences are abhorrent to a vocal chorus of competitors and fans.
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Forgetful - should MU not have perused Henry Ellenson because he is a foot taller than most of the kids near your local high school? After all, it is inherently unfair to them that he is so athletic and so tall.
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Forgetful - should MU not have perused Henry Ellenson because he is a foot taller than most of the kids near your local high school? After all, it is inherently unfair to them that he is so athletic and so tall.
Transferred your statement and replied in the other thread.
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Of course she has an advantage. But it's an advantage she was born with. She shouldn't be barred from competing because of that advantage any more than we would ban Yao Ming for being 5 inches taller than anyone else on the court, or ban Michael Phelps for being double-jointed in his ankles and chest, or ban Kenyan athletes who are born with physical traits that make them better long-distance runners than anyone else in the world.
Shocking news ... elite athletes aren't like the rest of us. They all have genetic advantages, some more than others. She shouldn't be punished for her advantage. The runners Semenya competes against may not have her testosterone levels, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts they have high testosterone levels compared to the vast majority of women.
The transgender issue is a red herring. Caster Semenya isn't someone who was born with the parts of one gender but self-identifies as another. She was born a woman. A woman with very high testosterone levels, but a woman nonetheless.
Actually, I'm going to have to correct you on this one... 1) they're not genetic "advantages," they're genetic abnormalities and 2) it's not just elite athletes who have these.
Case in point: How else can one (with no genetic abnormality) logically explain the physiological existence of someone who both a) doesn't think Lochte is a moronic liar and b) insists on [TRIPLE ENTENDRE ALERT] emasculating* Caster Semenya.
* (literally literally, figuratively literally and literally figuratively, respectively)
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Case in point: How else can one (with no genetic abnormality) logically explain the physiological existence of someone who both a) doesn't think Lochte is a moronic liar and b) insists on [TRIPLE ENTENDRE ALERT] emasculating* Caster Semenya.
* (literally literally, figuratively literally and literally figuratively, respectively)
Totally stuck the landing.