MUScoop

The full field for the 2K Sports Classic was announced today.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/371268071.html

With no home-and-home paybacks, we don't know any of our high-majors, but here's what we can assume as of right now:
.

• November 11: Vanderbilt (N) Naval Academy in Annapolis.
  
• November 14: Howard (H) Bradley Center, 2K Classic
  
• November 17: Michigan (N) Madison Square Garden, 2K Classic
  
• November 18: Pittsburgh/SMU (N) Madison Square Garden, 2K Classic
  
• November 22: IUPUI (H) Bradley Center, 2K Classic
  
• November 26: Houston Baptist (H)
  
  • November 30: Western Carolina (H)
    
    • December 4: Georgia (A) Beginning of a home and home.
      
    • December 6/7: Fresno State (H)
      
    • December 10: Wisconsin (H) We know this one for sure, likely December 10.

That's 6-0 ... a nice start to our big 2016-17 season!

If the past is any indication, probably 6 or 7 sub-300 RPI teams that prevent us from making the Dance again.

Quote from: Coleman on March 07, 2016, 03:55:21 PM
If the past is any indication, probably 6 or 7 sub-300 RPI teams that prevent us from making the Dance again.

If we had 20+ wins right now I could see griping about it but what made us not make the dance is Depaul Creighton and Belmont none of which were those sub 300 games. 

Quote from: Coleman on March 07, 2016, 03:55:21 PM
If the past is any indication, probably 6 or 7 sub-300 RPI teams that prevent us from making the Dance again.

Again?  That hasn't happened anytime in the past 20 years.

Quote from: brewcity77 on March 07, 2016, 03:47:58 PM
The full field for the 2K Sports Classic was announced today.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/371268071.html

With no home-and-home paybacks, we don't know any of our high-majors, but here's what we can assume as of right now:
.

• Wisconsin (H) We know this one for sure. Win. Wisconsin will be in a major rebuild. And, we're at home. Could be a slaughter if Henry comes back!
  
• Unnamed Big 10 Team (A) Not etched in stone that we'll be in the Gavitt Games, but seems likely.Assuming we're power matched, this probably would be Ohio State or Northwestern given that Michigan is in the 2K classic. Hopefully a win
  
• Two of Eastern Michigan, IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, and Howard (H) These will be at the BC as part of the 2K Classic.Two more wins. Sub 300 games., Better be body parts strewn about the Bradley Center.
  
• Two of Michigan, Pittsburgh, and SMU (N) These will be in NYC as part of the 2K Classic.

Minimum 1-1 and maybe 2-0 depending on wheter we draw Pitt or not.

Result would reasonably 5-1 to 6-0 in these first games.

Quote from: dgies9156 on March 07, 2016, 04:58:20 PM

• Wisconsin (H) We know this one for sure. Win. Wisconsin will be in a major rebuild. And, we're at home. Could be a slaughter if Henry comes back!
  
• Unnamed Big 10 Team (A) Not etched in stone that we'll be in the Gavitt Games, but seems likely.Assuming we're power matched, this probably would be Ohio State or Northwestern given that Michigan is in the 2K classic. Hopefully a win
  
• Two of Eastern Michigan, IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, and Howard (H) These will be at the BC as part of the 2K Classic.Two more wins. Sub 300 games., Better be body parts strewn about the Bradley Center.
  
• Two of Michigan, Pittsburgh, and SMU (N) These will be in NYC as part of the 2K Classic.

Minimum 1-1 and maybe 2-0 depending on wheter we draw Pitt or not.

Result would reasonably 5-1 to 6-0 in these first games.

How do you conclude Wisconsin will be in rebuild mode? They have everyone back plus the guys that sat out this year.

Quote from: dgies9156 on March 07, 2016, 04:58:20 PM

• Wisconsin (H) We know this one for sure. Win. Wisconsin will be in a major rebuild. And, we're at home. Could be a slaughter if Henry comes back!
  
• Unnamed Big 10 Team (A) Not etched in stone that we'll be in the Gavitt Games, but seems likely.Assuming we're power matched, this probably would be Ohio State or Northwestern given that Michigan is in the 2K classic. Hopefully a win
  
• Two of Eastern Michigan, IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, and Howard (H) These will be at the BC as part of the 2K Classic.Two more wins. Sub 300 games., Better be body parts strewn about the Bradley Center.
  
• Two of Michigan, Pittsburgh, and SMU (N) These will be in NYC as part of the 2K Classic.

Minimum 1-1 and maybe 2-0 depending on wheter we draw Pitt or not.

Result would reasonably 5-1 to 6-0 in these first games.

Badgers return everyone.

Hearing that Hayes is probably gone but they return everyone else

Quote from: MuEagle1090 on March 07, 2016, 05:06:58 PM
Hearing that Hayes is probably gone but they return everyone else

What school is Hayes transferring to?

Quote from: Coleman on March 07, 2016, 03:55:21 PM
If the past is any indication, probably 6 or 7 sub-300 RPI teams that prevent us from making the Dance again.

That's not true.  This year there were 5, and this year's schedule was poor.    One of those teams is 302...Stetson.   Buzz's last year we had 5. Buzz's second to last year, only 1.  In normal years, the number is usually 2 or 3, which is about what it should be. 

Last year we had 3, Wojo's first year. 

Quote from: dgies9156 on March 07, 2016, 04:58:20 PM

• Wisconsin (H) We know this one for sure. Win. Wisconsin will be in a major rebuild. And, we're at home. Could be a slaughter if Henry comes back!
  
• Unnamed Big 10 Team (A) Not etched in stone that we'll be in the Gavitt Games, but seems likely.Assuming we're power matched, this probably would be Ohio State or Northwestern given that Michigan is in the 2K classic. Hopefully a win
  
• Two of Eastern Michigan, IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, and Howard (H) These will be at the BC as part of the 2K Classic.Two more wins. Sub 300 games., Better be body parts strewn about the Bradley Center.
  
• Two of Michigan, Pittsburgh, and SMU (N) These will be in NYC as part of the 2K Classic.

Minimum 1-1 and maybe 2-0 depending on wheter we draw Pitt or not.

Result would reasonably 5-1 to 6-0 in these first games.

Wisconsin will be a top 15 team next year, including the kid that had to sit out this year due to NCAA eligibility issues.

Eff Wisconsin.

We'll beat 'em again, this time by double-digits.

The Hayes to the NBA is just silly. Koenig/Hayes may be the best senior duo in the NCAA's.

Why is it silly? He's projected anywhere from 25 to 40. That won't improve when he's a year older.

Quote from: MuEagle1090 on March 07, 2016, 07:45:59 PM
Why is it silly? He's projected anywhere from 25 to 40. That won't improve when he's a year older.

Where does DraftExpress & Chad Ford have him? I'm just curious, usually the top 2 sources

Quote from: WarriorPride68 on March 07, 2016, 07:53:14 PM
Where does DraftExpress & Chad Ford have him? I'm just curious, usually the top 2 sources

#33 draft express.

Quote from: WarriorPride68 on March 07, 2016, 07:53:14 PM
Where does DraftExpress & Chad Ford have him? I'm just curious, usually the top 2 sources

FIFY

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 07, 2016, 08:35:52 PM
FIFY

Free throws don't matter

Quote from: jaygall31 on March 07, 2016, 07:21:44 PM
The Hayes to the NBA is just silly. Koenig/Hayes may be the best senior duo in the NCAA's.

How come our players never stay 4 years :'(

Quote from: brewcity77 on March 07, 2016, 03:47:58 PM
The full field for the 2K Sports Classic was announced today.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/371268071.html

With no home-and-home paybacks, we don't know any of our high-majors, but here's what we can assume as of right now:
.

• Wisconsin (H) We know this one for sure.
  
• Unnamed Big 10 Team (A) Not etched in stone that we'll be in the Gavitt Games, but seems likely.
  
• Two of Eastern Michigan, IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, and Howard (H) These will be at the BC as part of the 2K Classic.
  
• Two of Michigan, Pittsburgh, and SMU (N) These will be in NYC as part of the 2K Classic.

Like to see the rest filled up with lower tier MAC, Horizon, and Missouri Valley style cupcakes

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on March 07, 2016, 10:14:42 PM
Like to see the rest filled up with lower tier MAC, Horizon, and Missouri Valley style cupcakes

Both the Horizon and MVC have informal policies that discourage their teams from doing straight buy games. We'd probably have to do a 2 or 3 for one, which means we won't be scheduling them.

I'd like to see two more high majors added to this, preferably home and homes. I'd like mid level teams from the ACC and SEC to get some ESPN exposure.

That would get you to 14 home games, 2 neutral site, and 11 road games. With the four remaining, the ideal would be three buy games and a neutral site game. 17 plus 1 exhibition is plenty of home games, and 7 high majors on the non-con would insure a strong enough schedule.

So what costs us more in the long run.  Cost of buy games or not dancing?

I would argue not dancing. Between tournament share value to the league, exposure, and increased donations, I have to think you're always better off dancing.

Ideally, whichever two of Howard, iupui, Gardner-webb, and Eastern Michigan we play don't end up as sub-300 teams.  It would be much more manageable if they were ~250 or better

Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2016, 06:10:12 AM
I would argue not dancing. Between tournament share value to the league, exposure, and increased donations, I have to think you're always better off dancing.

Thanks Brew.

My question was a bit tounge in cheek for the administration and next year's scheduling.

Quote from: jaygall31 on March 07, 2016, 07:21:44 PM
The Hayes to the NBA is just silly. Koenig/Hayes may be the best senior duo in the NCAA's.

Watching Hayes game, I still feel he'll be the best Badger from their Final Four teams in the NBA. I like him better than Dekker or Kaminsky. Good athlete, can get to the rim and shoot outside, already has a strong frame with room to polish his physique. Should definitely go this year, he's proven he can do it as the main guy and won't improve his stock any by sticking around another year. He's already 21.

Disagree.  Hayes pays too flat footed.  He's not a good slash err r/ball handler and can't jump.  Not NBA quality at all.

Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on March 08, 2016, 07:37:03 PM
Disagree.  Hayes pays too flat footed.  He's not a good slash err r/ball handler and can't jump.  Not NBA quality at all.

He's 6'8, can defend 2-4, has a fantastic mid range game and a decent 3 point shot. He's going to have a long career in the NBA.

Quote from: MuEagle1090 on March 08, 2016, 07:43:52 PM
He's 6'8, can defend 2-4, has a fantastic mid range game and a decent 3 point shot. He's going to have a long career in the NBA.

Carl Landry is my off the top of the head comparison.

Hayes.. second rounder, hopeful to get run, ai''nal?

6'8", no shooty, no reboundy

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 08, 2016, 07:51:57 PM
Hayes.. second rounder, hopeful to get run, ai''nal?

6'8", no shooty, no reboundy

Without access to stats, I would venture a guess that he has one of the best mid range games in the country. He hit 40% of three pointers last year, though he has struggled this year.

Quote from: MuEagle1090 on March 08, 2016, 08:00:10 PM
Without access to stats, I would venture a guess that he has one of the best mid range games in the country. He hit 40% of three pointers last year, though he has struggled this year.

His stats are puke. Sub-40% non-at-the-rim 2FG's and a ton of attempts. His/her eFG% is 43.9%. 2FG% is 41.5%. She's been nothing short of horrid. But those are just stats (reality).

Feels like there's a positive feedback loop at work here.

The better Marquette is, the more attractive we are to mid-tier teams in terms of boosting their strength of schedule (balanced against the downside of not getting a return home game).

And the more success our program sees (higher attendance, ratings, exposure and ultimately revenue), the more the athletic department is probably willing to pay up to bring better opponents to Milwaukee.

I'm sure this greatly oversimplifies what's at stake. But it seems clear that a rising program has more to offer than one coming off an 11-win season with a first-year coach.

Pitt will be tough without Henry.

Artis and Young are both back next year

Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on March 09, 2016, 11:59:08 AM
Pitt will be tough without Henry.

Artis and Young are both back next year

True, but they lose their starting PG and will be relying on a pretty low ranked freshman to run the point. If they don't address that area somehow, they may struggle despite having talented players like Artis and Young.

Add @ Utah to the list.

Stealing from Brew's original post:

Wisconsin (H) We know this one for sure.

Unnamed Big 10 Team (A) Not etched in stone that we'll be in the Gavitt Games, but seems likely.

Two of Eastern Michigan, IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, and Howard (H) These will be at the BC as part of the 2K Classic.

Two of Michigan, Pittsburgh, and SMU (N) These will be in NYC as part of the 2K Classic.

Utah (A).

I hope we didn't add Utah simply because we aren't getting a Gavitt Games game.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 29, 2016, 12:41:35 PM
I hope we didn't add Utah simply because we aren't getting a Gavitt Games game.

Touche.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 29, 2016, 11:17:41 AM

Two of Eastern Michigan, IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, and Howard (H) These will be at the BC as part of the 2K Classic.

From RealTimeRPI.com (I don't know if this is the best RPI source, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)
2016 RPI

Eastern Michigan - 112
IUPUI - 188
Gardner-Webb - 209
Howard - 328

Not sure what these teams return next year, but hopefully we can avoid Howard

Quote from: MuEagle1090 on March 07, 2016, 07:45:59 PM
Why is it silly? He's projected anywhere from 25 to 40. That won't improve when he's a year older.

This must be an extremely weak draft class.  A power forward who shoots 38% and turns the ball over should not be anywhere near a first round pick.

Quote from: jaygall31 on March 07, 2016, 07:21:44 PM
The Hayes to the NBA is just silly. Koenig/Hayes may be the best senior duo in the NCAA's.

Hayes has been discussed but this is hilarious.  Koenig?  He of 13 pts and 2 assists?  Also shooting under 40%?  He'll be a solid player as a senior but I would be surprised if he is even 2nd team all B10.

Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2016, 05:57:45 AM
Both the Horizon and MVC have informal policies that discourage their teams from doing straight buy games. We'd probably have to do a 2 or 3 for one, which means we won't be scheduling them.

I'd like to see two more high majors added to this, preferably home and homes. I'd like mid level teams from the ACC and SEC to get some ESPN exposure.

That would get you to 14 home games, 2 neutral site, and 11 road games. With the four remaining, the ideal would be three buy games and a neutral site game. 17 plus 1 exhibition is plenty of home games, and 7 high majors on the non-con would insure a strong enough schedule.

I think this schedule comes close to the one that Buzz scheduled in his last year. It was a little bit too hard and we ended up in the toilet.

I don't mind doing a 2 or 3 for 1 with a lower tier Horizon or MVC. We should be able to win the away game.

Worst thing that could happen to the program is to go 8-5 in OOC because we scheduled  a bit too hard.  We need to always be at the 10 win or above level we can get there with better ranked cupcakes. We still have Wisconsin, Gavitt, A tournament and One home and home likely so it is not like we are totally weak on the schedule.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on March 29, 2016, 03:37:09 PM
I think this schedule comes close to the one that Buzz scheduled in his last year. It was a little bit too hard and we ended up in the toilet.

I don't mind doing a 2 or 3 for 1 with a lower tier Horizon or MVC. We should be able to win the away game.

Worst thing that could happen to the program is to go 8-5 in OOC because we scheduled  a bit too hard.  We need to always be at the 10 win or above level we can get there with better ranked cupcakes. We still have Wisconsin, Gavitt, A tournament and One home and home likely so it is not like we are totally weak on the schedule.

We literally just spent the entire year about complaining about a ridiculously weak schedule and now we're gonna start complaining about Utah being too tough? Can't have it both ways, I'm a fan of the home and home.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on March 29, 2016, 03:37:09 PM
I think this schedule comes close to the one that Buzz scheduled in his last year. It was a little bit too hard and we ended up in the toilet.

I don't mind doing a 2 or 3 for 1 with a lower tier Horizon or MVC. We should be able to win the away game.

Worst thing that could happen to the program is to go 8-5 in OOC because we scheduled  a bit too hard.  We need to always be at the 10 win or above level we can get there with better ranked cupcakes. We still have Wisconsin, Gavitt, A tournament and One home and home likely so it is not like we are totally weak on the schedule.

For realz, bro?

Everyone is laughing at Hayes to the NBA but he's projected to get drafted and even uwbadgers.com released an article that mentioned he was considering options. It's a definite possibility.

Quote from: MuEagle1090 on March 29, 2016, 05:06:45 PM
Everyone is laughing at Hayes to the NBA but he's projected to get drafted and even uwbadgers.com released an article that mentioned he was considering options. It's a definite possibility.

If he can get drafted, he should go now.  He is not going to improve his draft stock at this point.  With a deeper draft next year, if he stays he goes undrafted.

Quote from: forgetful on March 29, 2016, 07:22:42 PM
If he can get drafted, he should go now.  He is not going to improve his draft stock at this point.  With a deeper draft next year, if he stays he goes undrafted.

He's been outspoken about he NCAA and paying players. I could see him leaving early. Although, I would think last year would have been a better time. His stock was higher and I think next year's team will be projected to be better than this past year's team was at the same time last year.

Quote from: forgetful on March 29, 2016, 07:22:42 PM
If he can get drafted, he should go now.  He is not going to improve his draft stock at this point.  With a deeper draft next year, if he stays he goes undrafted.

I agree. He leaves now and he's probably between 40-50. He stays and in all likelihood becomes a more efficient player next year but is a year older and his draft stock is the same/worse.

Of course Nigel Hayes could improve his draft status if he returns.  Kaminsky did.  Heild did.  Why can't Hayes?

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 29, 2016, 07:40:00 PM
Of course Nigel Hayes could improve his draft status if he returns.  Kaminsky did.  Heild did.  Why can't Hayes?

He could. Shouldn't have spoken in absolutes. But neither of those players severely regressed as their role increased like Hayes did this season.

Well, if you look at Hield's stats, you could argue that he did regress from sophomore to junior year.  Both his FG% and 3FG% decreased by about 30 percentage points even though his ppg increased.  (No idea about advanced stats.) 

Clearly that wasn't as bad as Hayes, who decreased by 100+ percentage points in both categories. 

But if I were Hayes I would come back.  A second round pick is something, but if he cant perform he's going to be cut.  He can improve (and I think he will) if he returns.  Very unlike the Dekker or the Hellenson situation where they are guaranteed first round money.

Quote from: JWags85 on March 29, 2016, 02:45:12 PM
Hayes has been discussed but this is hilarious.  Koenig?  He of 13 pts and 2 assists?  Also shooting under 40%?  He'll be a solid player as a senior but I would be surprised if he is even 2nd team all B10.

Koenig -- what relevance is his FG%? He shots more often from trey land than 2-point land.. 39% from 3, 39.5% from 2. eFG% of 50.0%.

His turnover rate is sub-14%, which is strong even for a guy in his offense at 20% usage.

Some stats matter.. others don't.

(for the record, I think he's a good fit in Bulgaria.. not in the NBA.. but, let's not state stats that are meaningless.)

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 29, 2016, 08:21:10 PM
Well, if you look at Hield's stats, you could argue that he did regress from sophomore to junior year.  Both his FG% and 3FG% decreased by about 30 percentage points even though his ppg increased.  (No idea about advanced stats.) 

Clearly that wasn't as bad as Hayes, who decreased by 100+ percentage points in both categories. 

But if I were Hayes I would come back.  A second round pick is something, but if he cant perform he's going to be cut.  He can improve (and I think he will) if he returns.  Very unlike the Dekker or the Hellenson situation where they are guaranteed first round money.

Buddy as a junior - ORtg of 110, down from 114.. but usage up from moderate 23 to higher-usage of 27.

Nigel fell off an effin cliff.. amazing 125 but only 21 usage and 19% %Shots 104 Ortg / 27 / 25.

Buddy = small decline with more workload.. Nigel, pee down the leg.

Senior year = Buddy amazing.. Nigel.. gotta think he improves some because of how crap he was this year.

Seriously JB.

Everytime I mention stats it's like a bat signal for you to add more context.  Thanks.

But yeah you make a good point.  Hayes would almost have to improve.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 29, 2016, 08:55:38 PM
Seriously JB.

Everytime I mention stats it's like a bat signal for you to add more context.  Thanks.

But yeah you make a good point.  Hayes would almost have to improve.

Please understand my point is simple: Becky blows.

I want Indiana.....

Quote from: ChitownEllenson on March 29, 2016, 03:41:39 PM
We literally just spent the entire year about complaining about a ridiculously weak schedule and now we're gonna start complaining about Utah being too tough? Can't have it both ways, I'm a fan of the home and home.

I have been pretty consistent on my view of this. Keep the cupcakes but schedule better ranked cupcakes.  Get 150-200 RPI versus 300-350. The good games were not the problem for us. We still have plenty of good games, between the Badger game, The Gavitt Game and the Quality teams in the Thanksgiving tournament  we have enough tough games. Utah is fine , I am just pointing out that on first blush this may be a very challenging schedule.  We need to be prepared for the potentially of a mediocre OOC result with potentially a higher RPI . In that scenario we may need 12 conference wins to get into the dance.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on March 30, 2016, 09:13:59 PM
I have been pretty consistent on my view of this. Keep the cupcakes but schedule better ranked cupcakes.  Get 150-200 RPI versus 300-350. The good games were not the problem for us. We still have plenty of good games, between the Badger game, The Gavitt Game and the Quality teams in the Thanksgiving tournament  we have enough tough games. Utah is fine , I am just pointing out that on first blush this may be a very challenging schedule.  We need to be prepared for the potentially of a mediocre OOC result with potentially a higher RPI . In that scenario we may need 12 conference wins to get into the dance.

Agreed; and we're saying the same thing in essence, but I just clarify it by I want the easy opponents to be ones who will win games in conference and/or otherwise gather a fair amount of D-I victories... 200 RPI vs. 300 RPI isn't always the best answer in that regard.

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 30, 2016, 10:00:29 PM
Agreed; and we're saying the same thing in essence, but I just clarify it by I want the easy opponents to be ones who will win games in conference and/or otherwise gather a fair amount of D-I victories... 200 RPI vs. 300 RPI isn't always the best answer in that regard.

Teams like Central Michigan or Toledo are the ones I would like to see.  Beatable but have some substance on paper.  Milwaukee and Green Bay during the time the kids are out of school. Good for attendance as well.  Michigan State readily schedules their cup cake opponents like this.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 29, 2016, 08:21:10 PM
Well, if you look at Hield's stats, you could argue that he did regress from sophomore to junior year.  Both his FG% and 3FG% decreased by about 30 percentage points even though his ppg increased.  (No idea about advanced stats.) 

Clearly that wasn't as bad as Hayes, who decreased by 100+ percentage points in both categories. 

But if I were Hayes I would come back.  A second round pick is something, but if he cant perform he's going to be cut.  He can improve (and I think he will) if he returns.  Very unlike the Dekker or the Hellenson situation where they are guaranteed first round money.

'

The key is that he can improve (likely will) and still worsen his draft stock (also likely will).  This is because of two reasons.  1) He's a year older.  2)  The draft class for next year looks much stronger.  3) Unless he improves a lot, he'll just look like a solid B10 player, that benefited from being on a team with two 1st round draft picks, but when on his own was not elite.

The end result is that he most likely goes undrafted if he stays another year.

MarquetteMBB twitter says a 2016-17 schedule update is expected this morning. Guessing they will make the Utah H&H official?

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on March 30, 2016, 11:28:01 PM
Teams like Central Michigan or Toledo are the ones I would like to see.  Beatable but have some substance on paper.  Milwaukee and Green Bay during the time the kids are out of school. Good for attendance as well.  Michigan State readily schedules their cup cake opponents like this.

OOC schedule should be based on two principles: preparation for Big East play and do no harm to tournament resume.

Based on that you need 2-3 "marquee" games, 6-8 likely winnable games against 140-260 RPI teams, and at worst 1 or 2 260+ RPI teams.

Side note, there is less than zero reason to ever schedule UWM. I don't care if they give us a 10-1 deal where they pay us, we should never schedule them again. Zero upside, all downside and quite frankly that program is a raging dumpster fire, why give them ANY opportunity to make it better. Lastly, improved attendance is crap....they brought barely 2000 fans to our last match-up.

Quote from: mu03eng on April 11, 2016, 10:50:44 AM
OOC schedule should be based on two principles: preparation for Big East play and do no harm to tournament resume.

Based on that you need 2-3 "marquee" games, 6-8 likely winnable games against 140-260 RPI teams, and at worst 1 or 2 260+ RPI teams.

Side note, there is less than zero reason to ever schedule UWM. I don't care if they give us a 10-1 deal where they pay us, we should never schedule them again. Zero upside, all downside and quite frankly that program is a raging dumpster fire, why give them ANY opportunity to make it better. Lastly, improved attendance is crap....they brought barely 2000 fans to our last match-up.

I agree with first part of your analysis.
I still believe locals are worth working into mix.
Last Green Bay game had 14,000 plus when students were out.

MU v. Vanderbilt in the 2016 Veterans Classic at the US Naval Academy.  Friday, November 11, 2016.

https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/719556877273710593

Would this lead to a weeknight home opener?

Quote from: MUMountin on April 11, 2016, 11:11:49 AM
MU v. Vanderbilt in the 2016 Veterans Classic at the US Naval Academy.  Friday, November 11, 2016.

https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/719556877273710593

Dang, a game against Vandy and a game against Utah. Add that to the Gavitt Games (assuming we get one), Bucky, and the NYC tourney and you've got yourself a nice crop of non-con games. Let's hope the cupcakes are too high in fat.

Quote from: Howard's Eagle on April 11, 2016, 12:02:11 PM
Dang, a game against Vandy and a game against Utah. Add that to the Gavitt Games (assuming we get one), Bucky, and the NYC tourney and you've got yourself a nice crop of non-con games. Let's hope the cupcakes are too high in fat.

Given the timing, I don't see how we can possibly be involved in the Gavitt games this year.

*Edit: I suspect we were left off the Gavitt schedule this year and as such added the Veterans game for this year

Quote from: mu03eng on April 11, 2016, 12:05:40 PM
Given the timing, I don't see how we can possibly be involved in the Gavitt games this year.

*Edit: I suspect we were left off the Gavitt schedule this year and as such added the Veterans game for this year

Yep, realized it when I read Matty V's article. The 2K classic interferes with the schedule. We've probably known we weren't getting one for months but us fans just didn't see it.

Quote from: mu03eng on April 11, 2016, 12:05:40 PM
Given the timing, I don't see how we can possibly be involved in the Gavitt games this year.

*Edit: I suspect we were left off the Gavitt schedule this year and as such added the Veterans game for this year

Which is fine.  With the game against UW and the possibility of Michigan in the tourney, that'd already give us two games against the Big 10.  I like this approach of playing a SEC, a P12, a B10, with the possibility of additional games against ACC/AAC/another Big 10.  Covers all of the major basketball conferences with the exception of B12.

Quote from: MUMountin on April 11, 2016, 12:29:52 PM
Which is fine.  With the game against UW and the possibility of Michigan in the tourney, that'd already give us two games against the Big 10.  I like this approach of playing a SEC, a P12, a B10, with the possibility of additional games against ACC/AAC/another Big 10.  Covers all of the major basketball conferences with the exception of B12.

Clearly the B12 is still too traumatized by what Villanova did to Oklahoma to schedule a game against another BEast opponent.

PS, I was at that game. I've never seen so many people look dead to the world as I did that night. There was no light in their eyes. They were just numb by the end of it.

Marquette not involved in Gavitt games per Matty V.

Quote from: JakeBarnes on April 11, 2016, 12:41:43 PM
Marquette not involved in Gavitt games per Matty V.

Officially? Link?

So we got:

Wisconsin (H) We know this one for sure.

Two of Eastern Michigan, IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, and Howard (H) These will be at the BC as part of the 2K Classic.

Two of Michigan, Pittsburgh, and SMU (N) These will be in NYC as part of the 2K Classic.

Utah (A).

Vandy (N).

Nice looking start. Not don't schedule the dregs on the NCAA for your buy games, and MUs RPI is not going to an issue this year.
Modify message

I hope we avoid Howard. The other regional 2K games are all good level cupcakes.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 11, 2016, 12:43:08 PM
Officially? Link?

https://twitter.com/Matt_Velazquez/status/719579209719353344

Bummer no Gavitt game. Really want a showdown with Minny.

But the Vandy game is a great get!

Looks like a better schedule then last year so that's great

Quote from: HowardsHeroes32 on April 11, 2016, 01:10:08 PM
Bummer no Gavitt game. Really want a showdown with Minny.

But the Vandy game is a great get!

Looks like a better schedule then last year so that's great

It all comes down to the cupcake games, though for the STHs, having another decent home game would probably also be nice. Not expecting that, though. Five high majors and two cupcakes from a pool of four means there are only 6 left to schedule, guessing those will be buy games, even though I'm hoping for 5 buys and one high major H/H starting at the BC.

Now that we have the makings of a good schedule, we need to actually win the games.

Is there a reason we don't schedule OOC games in January or February? Wasn't there a break in the Conference schedule last season where we didn't play for a week?

Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 11, 2016, 01:54:57 PM
Is there a reason we don't schedule OOC games in January or February? Wasn't there a break in the Conference schedule last season where we didn't play for a week?

I'm pretty sure the only break in the schedule is around Finals and the Holidays, where the players are studying or home with family for Christmas.

That is before the start of the conference schedule.

Quote from: brewcity77 on April 11, 2016, 01:12:24 PM
It all comes down to the cupcake games, though for the STHs, having another decent home game would probably also be nice. Not expecting that, though. Five high majors and two cupcakes from a pool of four means there are only 6 left to schedule, guessing those will be buy games, even though I'm hoping for 5 buys and one high major H/H starting at the BC.

Yeah would be nice to get one more with a home game. That would be a killer schedule playing 6 resume builders.

How much is Vandy losing? I know they have NBA prospects everywhere but were a letdown. Only saw Baldwin leaving. What about the 7 footer?

Pitt will be a real bitch. Michigan returns talent but they don't kill with size so they are a good match up. SMU I know loses some guys.

Utah is very beatable too bad it's at their place.

Quote from: HowardsHeroes32 on April 11, 2016, 02:05:32 PM
Yeah would be nice to get one more with a home game. That would be a killer schedule playing 6 resume builders.

How much is Vandy losing? I know they have NBA prospects everywhere but were a letdown. Only saw Baldwin leaving. What about the 7 footer?

Pitt will be a real bitch. Michigan returns talent but they don't kill with size so they are a good match up. SMU I know loses some guys.

Utah is very beatable too bad it's at their place.

Damian Jones has not declared yet but he is expected to and is being projected as a first round pick by many. Other than him and Baldwin, they return the rest of the contributors. I expect it to be a good matchup.

Quote from: RKMU123 on April 11, 2016, 02:12:53 PM
Damian Jones has not declared yet but he is expected to and is being projected as a first round pick by many. Other than him and Baldwin, they return the rest of the contributors. I expect it to be a good matchup.

Depends on your perspective...Jones did say he was leaving for the NBA after this year all the way back in October, though his stock seems to have slipped since.

Quote from: HowardsHeroes32 on April 11, 2016, 02:05:32 PM
Yeah would be nice to get one more with a home game. That would be a killer schedule playing 6 resume builders.

How much is Vandy losing? I know they have NBA prospects everywhere but were a letdown. Only saw Baldwin leaving. What about the 7 footer?

Pitt will be a real bitch. Michigan returns talent but they don't kill with size so they are a good match up. SMU I know loses some guys.

Utah is very beatable too bad it's at their place.

Assuming the 6 remaining home games (almost assuredly all buy games) are against teams in the 150-260 range I'm very comfortable with the schedule. As a STH it kind of sucks to have all those name games on the road/neutral but I get it, STH, regardless of university get screwed on the non-con schedule.

With all those assumptions, really need to go 9-3 at a minimum to be in good position for the conference season.

Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 11, 2016, 01:54:57 PM
Is there a reason we don't schedule OOC games in January or February? Wasn't there a break in the Conference schedule last season where we didn't play for a week?

Very few teams do because they are usually difficult to arrange. All the conferences are focusing on league games in those months, so you are working around figuring out not just what your league will do but what others will do. We did have the Stetson game this past season, and you do usually have a break in the conference schedule, but I'm not sure cramming a low-level cupcake is the best use of that time.

You do occasionally see the marquee non-con matchups (Duke/SJU in recent years) in those slots, but I wouldn't expect anyone to start planning parts of their season around those.

Quote from: brewcity77 on April 11, 2016, 02:18:41 PM
Depends on your perspective...Jones did say he was leaving for the NBA after this year all the way back in October, though his stock seems to have slipped since.

I think Jones stays if he likes Drew, gone if he doesn't.  Likely would have stayed another year if Stellings was still there.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 11, 2016, 12:47:06 PM
So we got:

Two of Michigan, Pittsburgh, and SMU. These will be in NYC as part of the 2K Classic.

Guessing Wojo will not be "liking" this matchup  ;)

Still need to see who Marquette finishes filling the schedule with.  I was impressed with some of the good teams this year--Belmont, Iowa, LSU (based on ESPN-love, this win should have instantly gotten us in the Dance), Arizona St.  So at this point next year, I can't say I'm impressed with the schedule until I see the cupcakes.  This is where I really think the WCC and Big East need to partner up.  The WCC should agree to 2 road games for every home game, and each team gets 3 WCC-BE games.  This is much better than the crappy non-conference schedules. 

Quote from: AZMarqfan on April 12, 2016, 12:51:55 AM
Still need to see who Marquette finishes filling the schedule with.  I was impressed with some of the good teams this year--Belmont, Iowa, LSU (based on ESPN-love, this win should have instantly gotten us in the Dance), Arizona St.  So at this point next year, I can't say I'm impressed with the schedule until I see the cupcakes. 

Exactly the way to look at it, imo.

If we have a trio of teams who are going to be sitting around 4-26 on the season, the schedule we know of to-date doesn't result in a "strong" "SOS" in the RPI world.

When was the last time our peeps approached ND's peeps about a possible H/H?

That's the one I want most!

Quote from: MU82 on April 12, 2016, 10:09:39 AM
When was the last time our peeps approached ND's peeps about a possible H/H?

That's the one I want most!

Me too. This would cure any scheduling ailment.
I would even agree to a 2:1 just to get it going again.

Quote from: We R Final Four on April 12, 2016, 10:34:05 AM
Me too. This would cure any scheduling ailment.
I would even agree to a 2:1 just to get it going again.

You might agree to that, but I like to think our peeps wouldn't agree to that. As much as I'd like to see the series re-started, I don't want us to "admit" we're the lesser program in the lesser league.

Understood--but if it reignites the rivalry I would do it--understanding most would not.

Quote from: MU82 on April 12, 2016, 10:09:39 AM
When was the last time our peeps approached ND's peeps about a possible H/H?

That's the one I want most!

From what I was told, every year since ND left the Big East. And every year we got the same answer.

Didn't Brey say he wanted to continue playing us? Must be from ND's AD and such.

Quote from: brewcity77 on April 12, 2016, 11:02:41 AM
From what I was told, every year since ND left the Big East. And every year we got the same answer.

ND will only schedule us if it is in their interest to do so. At this point they have no upside and only downside playing us.

A United Center game with tickets split evenly could be a possible compromise. 

I'm curious as to what the generational viewpoint of rivals is. I've always said for me the biggest rivals were (in order of loathing and desire to play): Wisconsin, Louisville, Cincinnati with ND problem 4 or 5 on the list. I came of MU age in the Crean/"old" BE era. Modern grads might think differently, so might old fogeys like MU82

Right now we have one true rival that is Wisconsin, in that they care about beating us as much as we care about beating them. I put all the other games in the category of good games that we would like to schedule as much as possible.  At this point the double round robin of the Big East will serve to create rivalries.  It will take some time for that to play out.

Quote from: mu03eng on April 12, 2016, 11:28:59 AM
I'm curious as to what the generational viewpoint of rivals is. I've always said for me the biggest rivals were (in order of loathing and desire to play): Wisconsin, Louisville, Cincinnati with ND problem 4 or 5 on the list. I came of MU age in the Crean/"old" BE era. Modern grads might think differently, so might old fogeys like MU82

Modern grad: 1. wisconsin 2. Everyone else

Big East doesn't provide us with those easy-to-hate teams anymore (Lville, Cinci, Cuse, ND etc.), and the conference's need to validate itself with the Power 5 also makes us cheer FOR the rest of our conference.

I don't mind, though, as I loathe uw enough to make up for the lack of other "rivals".

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 12, 2016, 11:35:18 AM
Right now we have one true rival that is Wisconsin, in that they care about beating us as much as we care about beating them. I put all the other games in the category of good games that we would like to schedule as much as possible.  At this point the double round robin of the Big East will serve to create rivalries.  It will take some time for that to play out.

I graduated in 1996.   I've never viewed ND as much of a rival.  I don't even recall if MU played ND while I was there.   Right now the only school I feel a real rivalry with is Wisconsin.   Louisville and Cincinnati were definitely rivals in the past.    I'm waiting for a sense of rivalry to develop with other Big East teams.  I guess right now Georgetown and Xavier are the two Big East teams I dislike the most.

Quote from: mu03eng on April 12, 2016, 11:28:59 AM
I'm curious as to what the generational viewpoint of rivals is. I've always said for me the biggest rivals were (in order of loathing and desire to play): Wisconsin, Louisville, Cincinnati with ND problem 4 or 5 on the list. I came of MU age in the Crean/"old" BE era. Modern grads might think differently, so might old fogeys like MU82

Went from 09-14 here and I always viewed ND as almost on par with UW. I didn't like ville or Cinci but I didn't really think of them as rivals.

Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on April 12, 2016, 11:27:15 AM
Didn't Brey say he wanted to continue playing us? Must be from ND's AD and such.

Unless he has changed his mind in the last couple of years, it's exactly the opposite.  Back then,  I heard it straight from the MU AD that everyone on both sides was on board except for Mike Brey.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 12, 2016, 11:35:18 AM
Right now we have one true rival that is Wisconsin, in that they care about beating us as much as we care about beating them. I put all the other games in the category of good games that we would like to schedule as much as possible.  At this point the double round robin of the Big East will serve to create rivalries.  It will take some time for that to play out.

Agree.  A few years back, we had pretty good rivalries with UC and UL, but I haven't seen anything in the current BE that I'd call a legitimate rivalry.  Maybe when we get our mojo back, we can develop good rivalries with Nova or other top BE teams....

Quote from: mu03eng on April 12, 2016, 11:28:59 AM
I'm curious as to what the generational viewpoint of rivals is. I've always said for me the biggest rivals were (in order of loathing and desire to play): Wisconsin, Louisville, Cincinnati with ND problem 4 or 5 on the list. I came of MU age in the Crean/"old" BE era. Modern grads might think differently, so might old fogeys like MU82

1. Wisconsin  2. Notre Dame  3. Anyone else.

When I was in school, Wisconsin and Notre Dame were pretty equal as rivals in my eyes. Hated them both. Still do, but Wisconsin has firmly taken the lead over ND. If we were to start playing ND again, I think it would even back out.

I don't know who our conference rival will be in the future. There's too much BEast love right now for them to develop. Hopefully the league becomes more established and we can stop loving each other and start the hate!

Quote from: Howard's Eagle on April 12, 2016, 12:11:20 PM
There's too much BEast love right now for them to develop.

Next time we play Villanova, who are we even suppose to root for  :D

Personally, I think Creighton is in the driver seat to win the team I hate in the Big East. We aren't there yet but I've had enough bad interactions with their fans now to really see how I could hate them in the future.

Other than that I'm generally a fan of the other teams. DePaul is such a clown show I can't hate them, just pity them.

Quote from: WarriorPride68 on April 12, 2016, 12:19:27 PM
Next time we play Villanova, who are we even suppose to root for  :D

Well played.

Ugh... I can't stand X.
They are good but for some reason the last few years I've just been so annoyed with them and it's completely baseless. Except when watching the games this year Farr was always jawing and yelling toward our players after dunks.

The worst part, Bill Murray is one of my favorites of all time.

I'm wondering if the hatred for ND comes more from where you grew up rather than when you attended Marquette.  I'm guessing those of you from the Chicago area might have much stronger feelings about ND than someone who grew up in northern WI, MN, etc..

Quote from: Charley Farley on April 12, 2016, 01:33:44 PM
I'm wondering if the hatred for ND comes more from where you grew up rather than when you attended Marquette.  I'm guessing those of you from the Chicago area might have much stronger feelings about ND than someone who grew up in northern WI, MN, etc..

Might be.  I'm not from the Chicago area, and to me, ND isn't a huge rival.  Even when we played in the BE together, I considered UL a much bigger rival.  The last time I considere MU-ND a really big deal was in the Al-Digger days.

Quote from: Charley Farley on April 12, 2016, 01:33:44 PM
I'm wondering if the hatred for ND comes more from where you grew up rather than when you attended Marquette.  I'm guessing those of you from the Chicago area might have much stronger feelings about ND than someone who grew up in northern WI, MN, etc..

True in two ways. A lot of Chicagoans grew up cheering FOR Notre Dame before they had any allegiance to MU. Conversely, if you didn't love ND, you hated 'em.   

Quote from: Charley Farley on April 12, 2016, 01:33:44 PM
I'm wondering if the hatred for ND comes more from where you grew up rather than when you attended Marquette.  I'm guessing those of you from the Chicago area might have much stronger feelings about ND than someone who grew up in northern WI, MN, etc..

Really more of a factor of how many Domers you know personally.   ;D

Except for my BIL.  He is pretty cool.  You would never know he is a Notre Dame grad.  Contrary to the old joke, he never mentions it.

Quote from: warriorchick on April 12, 2016, 01:52:49 PM
Really more of a factor of how many Domers you know personally.   ;D

Except for my BIL.  He is pretty cool.  You would never know he is a Notre Dame grad.  Contrary to the old joke, he never mentions it.

Good point.  I only interact with one Domer regularly, and he's pretty chill about it. 

I always thought a preseason Midwest Catholic invitational in Chicago would be cool.  Get Notre Dame, Marquette, Loyola (Chicago) and Dayton play each other at the UC for two days.  Three of the four have large Chicago fan-bases.  I'm guessing you wouldn't want two teams from a conference competing in it (hence no DePaul).

Even though Marquette is always guaranteed to play in Chicago, it would be a big recruiting advantage for both Notre Dame and Dayton - and heck, Loyola certainly could use the added exposure.

Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on April 12, 2016, 01:57:28 PM
I always thought a preseason Midwest Catholic invitational in Chicago would be cool.  Get Notre Dame, Marquette, Loyola (Chicago) and Dayton play each other at the UC for two days.  Three of the four have large Chicago fan-bases.  I'm guessing you wouldn't want two teams from a conference competing in it (hence no DePaul).

Even though Marquette is always guaranteed to play in Chicago, it would be a big recruiting advantage for both Notre Dame and Dayton - and heck, Loyola certainly could use the added exposure.

I am not sure the annual shellacking they would get would be good for their recruiting.   ;D

Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on April 12, 2016, 01:57:28 PM
I always thought a preseason Midwest Catholic invitational in Chicago would be cool.  Get Notre Dame, Marquette, Loyola (Chicago) and Dayton play each other at the UC for two days.  Three of the four have large Chicago fan-bases.  I'm guessing you wouldn't want two teams from a conference competing in it (hence no DePaul).

Even though Marquette is always guaranteed to play in Chicago, it would be a big recruiting advantage for both Notre Dame and Dayton - and heck, Loyola certainly could use the added exposure.

Kind of reminiscent of the old Chicago Stadium double headers.  I went to one in about '70 that included MU, USC, Loyola and Illinois.  I was too young to know anything about him at the time, but USC had a pretty talented kid named Paul Westphal. 

Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on April 12, 2016, 01:57:28 PM
I always thought a preseason Midwest Catholic invitational in Chicago would be cool.  Get Notre Dame, Marquette, Loyola (Chicago) and Dayton play each other at the UC for two days.  Three of the four have large Chicago fan-bases.  I'm guessing you wouldn't want two teams from a conference competing in it (hence no DePaul).

Even though Marquette is always guaranteed to play in Chicago, it would be a big recruiting advantage for both Notre Dame and Dayton - and heck, Loyola certainly could use the added exposure.

I think you would need bigger schools than Loyola and Dayton.  I would ditch the Catholic concept.  Say ND v. Marquette and Illinois v. Louisville or something similar.

Notre Dame was far and away our biggest rival when I was at Marquette (1978-82), followed by DePaul. Wisconsin was so effen bad for so effen long, they were barely a rival. We generally didn't recruit the same kids, either.

Over the years, Wisconsin has grown as a rival because their program has grown into a perennial tournament team. And now they have surpassed us, at least since our S16-S16-E8 run. Plus, we're fighting for quite a few of the same recruits. So they're very hate-able.

I don't understand how somebody who went to Marquette when ND also was in the Big East can say ND wasn't much of a rival. We had some great battles and there still was the leftover stench of the old independent ND. I still root against them every time I see them, and that's in football, too. I would LOVE to play them again.

Louisville and Cinci grew to become pretty fierce rivals, and then Syracuse, Pitt, WV and UConn, too.

Now, among BE teams, Butler is right there. We seem to have some epic games against them. Always want to whup GT, as well. And as an earlier poster said, Creighton has become hate-able (from a fan's standpoint) for some reason.

Quote from: warriorchick on April 12, 2016, 01:52:49 PM
Really more of a factor of how many Domers you know personally.   ;D

Except for my BIL.  He is pretty cool.  You would never know he is a Notre Dame grad.  Contrary to the old joke, he never mentions it.

I think you're onto something.  I only see 1 ND grad on a regular basis and he really doesn't talk about ND.   On the other hand, I know countless annoying Badger fans up there in western WI.

Quote from: MU82 on April 12, 2016, 02:28:17 PM
Notre Dame was far and away our biggest rival when I was at Marquette (1978-82), followed by DePaul. Wisconsin was so effen bad for so effen long, they were barely a rival. We generally didn't recruit the same kids, either.

Over the years, Wisconsin has grown as a rival because their program has grown into a perennial tournament team. And now they have surpassed us, at least since our S16-S16-E8 run. Plus, we're fighting for quite a few of the same recruits. So they're very hate-able.

I don't understand how somebody who went to Marquette when ND also was in the Big East can say ND wasn't much of a rival. We had some great battles and there still was the leftover stench of the old independent ND. I still root against them every time I see them, and that's in football, too. I would LOVE to play them again.

Louisville and Cinci grew to become pretty fierce rivals, and then Syracuse, Pitt, WV and UConn, too.

Now, among BE teams, Butler is right there. We seem to have some epic games against them. Always want to whup GT, as well. And as an earlier poster said, Creighton has become hate-able (from a fan's standpoint) for some reason.

I agree with this analysis.

Quote from: RKMU123 on April 12, 2016, 11:37:27 AM
Big East doesn't provide us with those easy-to-hate teams anymore

100% agree.  I struggle to think of which teams in the league I hate the most...

Villanova?- too important for the league to cheer against
Georgetown?- just as laughable as us since the split, but also a flagship school
Butler?- no deep-seeded hate yet
Creighton?- no deep seeded hate (yet), seen as a "brother" school
Xavier?- no deep seeded hate yet, despite ancient rivalry and recent conflicts (2011 tourney)
DePaul?- too crappy
St. Johns?- too crappy since the split, but they give me a bad vibe
Seton Hall?- used to be so bad, I cant help feeling good for them as a successful team, but they give me a bad vibe too
Providence?- I think this one has potential, but they need to beat us at least once first

There are the B1G/ACC, Big12/SEC and the B1G/BigEast (Gavitt) challenge games. Why hasn't the PAC12 got in some kind of a challenge? Seems like a natural for the Big East and PAC12 both on FS1.
Just curious.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 12, 2016, 02:11:23 PM

I think you would need bigger schools than Loyola and Dayton.  I would ditch the Catholic concept.  Say ND v. Marquette and Illinois v. Louisville or something similar.

This +1000.

MU playing the front end of a Saturday afternoon doubleheader at United Center would be great. I think it'd be tough to get ND, considering they play in the state of Indiana event every year, but I'd imagine MU wouldn't be hard pressed to find a quality opponent to come to Chicago.

A MU/Iowa State and Illinois/Louisville doubleheader would be fantastic in mid December.

The regional argument has merit. As a high schooler, I loved it when we beat the crap out of the University of Tennessee. That is because I lived in Nashville, TN and went to school with smug Vol fans. I hated the Vols and thought no fruit sucks like a Big Orange.

One of the fallouts from conference realignment is the break-up of natural rivalries. At one time or another, Notre Dame, DePaul, Wisconsin, Loyola of Chicago and even Detroit (when Vitale coached them) were rivalries to us. We also periodically played Dayton, Memphis State, Loserville and Cincinnati. Cincy was the best proof of a rivalry being focused on a person, since it was easy to hate the University of Cincinnati when the Huggy Bear Coached there. 

Of these local rivalries, only DePaul and the rodent remain.

I shudder to think it publicly, but I wonder whether Wisconsin will continue to play us annually. At some point and especially if the series becomes as lopsided as it was in the 1970s, the red rodent will burrow a hole and go elsewhere. It's not inconceivable especially since we're in different conferences. Truth be told, we need the rodent on our schedule more than the rodent needs us.

The new rivalries will come. Some pop-off coach will say something. Or a team's representatives will be rude, boorish and somehow catch us on a bad day. Or the trash talk will get out of hand. Not sure where that will be yet, but someone will say something and, whamo, a rivalry is born.

Quote from: MUDish on April 12, 2016, 05:07:41 PM
MU/Iowa State would be fantastic in mid December.

I didn't know you could have an intra-squad scrimmage in public. Thought the NCAA didn't like it!

Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 12, 2016, 04:57:51 PM
There are the B1G/ACC, Big12/SEC and the B1G/BigEast (Gavitt) challenge games. Why hasn't the PAC12 got in some kind of a challenge? Seems like a natural for the Big East and PAC12 both on FS1.
Just curious.

UCLA and Arizona, allegedly, want no part of it.  A BE/PAC-12 challenge without those two would be useless - hence why nothing has been agreed upon.  Fox really wanted it, and obviously the Big East wanted it.

Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on April 12, 2016, 06:04:03 PM
UCLA and Arizona, allegedly, want no part of it.  A BE/PAC-12 challenge without those two would be useless - hence why nothing has been agreed upon.  Fox really wanted it, and obviously the Big East wanted it.

Why? Are they afraid of Nova? Any links?

Quote from: dgies9156 on April 12, 2016, 05:23:58 PM
The regional argument has merit. As a high schooler, I loved it when we beat the crap out of the University of Tennessee. That is because I lived in Nashville, TN and went to school with smug Vol fans. I hated the Vols and thought no fruit sucks like a Big Orange.

One of the fallouts from conference realignment is the break-up of natural rivalries. At one time or another, Notre Dame, DePaul, Wisconsin, Loyola of Chicago and even Detroit (when Vitale coached them) were rivalries to us. We also periodically played Dayton, Memphis State, Loserville and Cincinnati. Cincy was the best proof of a rivalry being focused on a person, since it was easy to hate the University of Cincinnati when the Huggy Bear Coached there. 

Of these local rivalries, only DePaul and the rodent remain.

I shudder to think it publicly, but I wonder whether Wisconsin will continue to play us annually. At some point and especially if the series becomes as lopsided as it was in the 1970s, the red rodent will burrow a hole and go elsewhere. It's not inconceivable especially since we're in different conferences. Truth be told, we need the rodent on our schedule more than the rodent needs us.

The new rivalries will come. Some pop-off coach will say something. Or a team's representatives will be rude, boorish and somehow catch us on a bad day. Or the trash talk will get out of hand. Not sure where that will be yet, but someone will say something and, whamo, a rivalry is born.

I agree with this analysis.

I enjoyed the rivalry with Detroit back in the Day.

"He was larger than life," said Dick Vitale, the loquacious ESPN analyst whose early years coaching at Detroit overlapped with McGuire's last few years at Marquette. "He was such a personality, so enthusiastic about what he was doing. That was the type of coach I wanted to be. The first time I met him I was in awe."

Vitale's Detroit Titans beat Marquette's eventual national champions during McGuire's final season, after McGuire had passed along a valuable lesson about motivation the year before.

"We were up on them pretty good at halftime at our place, and I was all excited in the locker room---'We can beat these guys! I told you they're overrated, no better than us,' " Vitale recalled. "That was a really good Marquette team, too, and they came out in the second half and they got us. Al told me later, 'Dickie, you gave us one we didn't deserve that night. We could hear you through the wall, so we just sat there and listened. I didn't say a word to my guys. I just told them, 'That's what they think of us.' You woke us up."

Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on April 12, 2016, 06:04:03 PM
UCLA and Arizona, allegedly, want no part of it.  A BE/PAC-12 challenge without those two would be useless - hence why nothing has been agreed upon.  Fox really wanted it, and obviously the Big East wanted it.

Yah why? Don't want to lose home games to east coast private schools?

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 12, 2016, 07:42:23 PM
Yah why? Don't want to lose home games to east coast private schools?

I think Arizona got all they wanted when they lost to Providence this season .

They're a few reasons they (Arizona and UCLA) are against it.  For one, they value their home games and choosing their opponents before PAC-12 conference games begin, and a majority of their remaining non-home games are in tournaments before conference play starts.  In the past three years alone, UCLA (Missouri and Alabama) and Arizona (Michigan) have had a combined three non-tournament away games that are not in or near the west coast.  They very much value having regional buy games with a preseason tournament before conference play begins.  Forcing them into a scheduling agreement limits their flexibility

Another unfortunate fact is that they really don't need the bump in strength of scheduling or exposure for their programs.  They can (and have) scheduled a Gonzaga, a UNLV, a San Diego State or even a Big 12 school, when they really want a tough opponent before conference play begins.  They don't need a scheduling arrangement with the Big East to accomplish this. Also, look at what happened with Arizona against Providence - it really only hurts them.  They don't need the win in scheduling, and it really hurts if they lose. 

Unfortunately, other PAC-12 schools, like Oregon, Utah, California, Arizona State and Stanford would really be/are in favor of the arrangement.  However, if the two blue chip programs are against the agreement, there's no point in the Big East to try and have a scheduling agreement with them.  This is why the rumored agreement never got done (and will not get done unless UCLA/Arizona change their tune).

Conversely, even though we are not apart of the Gavitt Games this year, we managed to negotiate that each B1G team appear in the agreement a minimum of four times until agreement runs out in 2022 (Big East teams appear a minimum of six times).  We would not have made an agreement with them if Indiana, Michigan State, Maryland and/or Wisconsin decided to not participate.

Per Jon Rothstein, Fresno State will play at the BC this year. Defending Mountain West tournament champions. Definitely a better buy than last year's MWC foe, San Jose State.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 01, 2016, 12:36:27 PM
Per Jon Rothstein, Fresno State will play at the BC this year. Defending Mountain West tournament champions. Definitely a better buy than last year's MWC foe, San Jose State.

Yes, though it is interesting that Fresno State lost at San Jose State (6-22) this past season.  Jerry Wainwright is the associate head coach of Fresno State, btw.

Marquette is expected to begin announcing the team's full slate non-conference games on Tuesday via its social media accounts.

Oh for the love of God just announce the whole damn thing at once this year. 

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 01, 2016, 12:36:27 PM
Per Jon Rothstein, Fresno State will play at the BC this year. Defending Mountain West tournament champions. Definitely a better buy than last year's MWC foe, San Jose State.

Nice. RPI of 66 last year.

Jerry Wainwright is assoc HC!

Can't wait to see how JW has aged.

Cullen Russo from MN could have helped us last year. Hope he doesn't REBOUND all over our f'n head.

So I did some math today based on this Tweet from today:

Quote from: @MarquetteMBB#mubb 2nd @2KClassic home matchup will open 3-game homestand & run of 7-of-8 outings at @BMOHBC

We know the first five opponents...
.

• Nov 11: Vanderbilt (N)
  
• Nov 14: EMU/IUPUI/Gardner-Webb/Howard (H)
  
• Nov 17: Michigan/Pitt/SMU (N)
  
• Nov 18: Michigan/Pitt/SMU (N)
  
• Nov 22: EMU/IUPUI/Gardner-Webb/Howard (H)

.
But looking at what they've posted, there's a hiccup. And we pretty well know the following:
.

• Nov 27: Likely Buy Game, guessing the Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend as it's more likely students will be back.
  
• Nov 29/30 or Dec 1: Third of three-game homestand mentioned above
  
• Dec 4: Georgia, only true road game, this is on sicemdawgs.com.
  
• Dec 6/7: Likely Buy Game tune-up before Wisconsin
  
• Dec 10: Wisconsin
  
• Dec 13/14: Likely Buy Game
  
• Dec 17: Likely Buy Game, possibly Fresno State (likely biggest buy game, try to get weekend crowd)
  
• Dec 20/21: ???, last game before Christmas and expected Dec 28 Big East opener

.
7 of 8 at home automatically includes the the one away as the Georgia game. But it also leaves us one game short of the 13 allowed for the schedule. So either there is another game coming that will be a neutral site or road game, or Marquette is only playing 12 games (in which case seems like the Dec 13/14 date would be most likely to be eliminated). This would give the team a week for Christmas and before Big East play tips off.

If there's any intrigue left in this, outside of finding out whether we play East Western State or the Western University Dolphins, it's what that 13th game away from home would be.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 09, 2016, 02:37:20 PM
So I did some math today based on this Tweet from today:

We know the first five opponents...
.

• Nov 11: Vanderbilt (N)
  
• Nov 14: EMU/IUPUI/Gardner-Webb/Howard (H)
  
• Nov 17: Michigan/Pitt/SMU (N)
  
• Nov 18: Michigan/Pitt/SMU (N)
  
• Nov 22: EMU/IUPUI/Gardner-Webb/Howard (H)

.
But looking at what they've posted, there's a hiccup. And we pretty well know the following:
.

• Nov 27: Likely Buy Game, guessing the Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend as it's more likely students will be back.
  
• Nov 29/30 or Dec 1: Third of three-game homestand mentioned above
  
• Dec 4: Georgia, only true road game, this is on sicemdawgs.com.
  
• Dec 6/7: Likely Buy Game tune-up before Wisconsin
  
• Dec 10: Wisconsin
  
• Dec 13/14: Likely Buy Game
  
• Dec 17: Likely Buy Game, possibly Fresno State (likely biggest buy game, try to get weekend crowd)
  
• Dec 20/21: ???, last game before Christmas and expected Dec 28 Big East opener

.
7 of 8 at home automatically includes the the one away as the Georgia game. But it also leaves us one game short of the 13 allowed for the schedule. So either there is another game coming that will be a neutral site or road game, or Marquette is only playing 12 games (in which case seems like the Dec 13/14 date would be most likely to be eliminated). This would give the team a week for Christmas and before Big East play tips off.

If there's any intrigue left in this, outside of finding out whether we play East Western State or the Western University Dolphins, it's what that 13th game away from home would be.

Would like to see us get UWM or UWGB on those buy dates even if we have to do a 2 for 1.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 09, 2016, 03:10:41 PM
Would like to see us get UWM or UWGB on those buy dates even if we have to do a 2 for 1.

You keep saying this, and I keep telling you all the reasons that it will not happen.

Since it will be finals week, I can't see a game the week of Dec. 12th.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 09, 2016, 03:22:51 PM
You keep saying this, and I keep telling you all the reasons that it will not happen.

My discussions with the Athletic Department lead me to believe that they are open to doing those kind of transactions under the right circumstances. 

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 09, 2016, 03:45:33 PM
My discussions with the Athletic Department lead me to believe that they are open to doing those kind of transactions under the right circumstances.

Yeah. You're clearly talking to the wrong Athletics Department. UWM and UWGB want a home game.

This won't happen. Get kostas on the team and then they will make it work.

Quote from: fjm on July 09, 2016, 07:30:42 PM
Yeah. You're clearly talking to the wrong Athletics Department. UWM and UWGB want a home game.

This won't happen. Get kostas on the team and then they will make it work.

Our guys are willing to consider a 3 for 1.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 09, 2016, 07:32:40 PM
Our guys are willing to consider a 3 for 1.

If they are they should be fired....especially for UWM. There are no reasons to play UWM at anything more than a straight buy game. Even than I would be very opposed to playing UWM. There is zero benefit, they are even worse now than they were when we got a 4 for 1 and they couldn't come close to selling out Panther Arena for the one "road" game.

I don't see any reason to play UWGB, especially now that Wardle's gone....but if they offered a 4 for 1 I wouldn't be pissed if we accepted it.

Quote from: mu03eng on July 09, 2016, 08:22:57 PM
If they are they should be fired....especially for UWM. There are no reasons to play UWM at anything more than a straight buy game. Even than I would be very opposed to playing UWM. There is zero benefit, they are even worse now than they were when we got a 4 for 1 and they couldn't come close to selling out Panther Arena for the one "road" game.

I don't see any reason to play UWGB, especially now that Wardle's gone....but if they offered a 4 for 1 I wouldn't be pissed if we accepted it.

There is RPI value in "road " wins.

There is absolutely no indication that Marquette has any interest in a 3 for 1 with either UWM or UWGB.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 09, 2016, 08:29:57 PM
There is absolutely no indication that Marquette has any interest in a 3 for 1 with either UWM or UWGB.

Per Milwaukee Business Journal:
"Amanda (UWM athletic director Amanda Braun) and I actually have had a number of conversations," Scholl said. "Is there any chance? There is a chance we will play some games. We certainly have not made any commitments. We'll see where that goes."

I contacted Braun for a comment on those discussions. Here is her response via email:

"A game between Milwaukee and Marquette would energize our alumni, students and fans as well as be great for the city by helping generate interest in college basketball early in the season," Braun said. "We have had some initial discussions with Marquette, but no agreement to play has been reached at this point."

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 09, 2016, 08:29:57 PM
There is absolutely no indication that Marquette has any interest in a 3 for 1 with either UWM or UWGB.

+1

I don't know what "discussions with the Athletic Department" anyone else has had, but I have no problem saying that Mike Broeker told me point blank that Marquette is not interested in giving up a road game unless they get a high-major home game in return.

"Under the right circumstances" would pretty much have to be the Big 10 offering UW-M or UW-GB to join their league as a basketball only school.

EDIT: So the source is a throwaway comment in the MBJ (what else could Scholl say, "screw those guys"?) and a comment from Braun that she wants to play Marquette? Well DUH she wants to play Marquette. Because her moribund program has failed to generate interest under her leadership. By the same token, I want a suitcase of untraceable $100 bills to turn up in my garage tomorrow, but that's probably not happening either.

Marquette would never publicly say that it is very unlikely that they would play either. But it is unlikely.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 09, 2016, 09:12:01 PM
+1

I don't know what "discussions with the Athletic Department" anyone else has had, but I have no problem saying that Mike Broeker told me point blank that Marquette is not interested in giving up a road game unless they get a high-major home game in return.

"Under the right circumstances" would pretty much have to be the Big 10 offering UW-M or UW-GB to join their league as a basketball only school.

EDIT: So the source is a throwaway comment in the MBJ (what else could Scholl say, "screw those guys"?) and a comment from Braun that she wants to play Marquette? Well DUH she wants to play Marquette. Because her moribund program has failed to generate interest under her leadership. By the same token, I want a suitcase of untraceable $100 bills to turn up in my garage tomorrow, but that's probably not happening either.

Your very invested in not seeing this happen. Mike Broeker does not call the shots.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 09, 2016, 09:23:04 PM
Your very invested in not seeing this happen. Mike Broeker does not call the shots.

No...apparently you think Amanda Braun does  ::) ;D

Sorry, struggling with my highlights here.  There won't be a buy game around 12/13-14 because of Finals.  Never happens.

Saturday, November 26- Houston Baptist

HPU was 17-16 last season, 224 in the RPI.

Lost in the first round of the CBI, to end the season at 17-17. Looks like they lose three starters.

Quote from: mupanther on July 10, 2016, 11:59:04 AM
Saturday, November 26- Houston Baptist

HPU was 17-16 last season, 224 in the RPI.

Lost in the first round of the CBI, to end the season at 17-17. Looks like they lose three starters.

Famous HBU Alumni Colin Montgomerie.

Looking at this a little more.  I think they squeeze in a low cupcake on Sunday, 11/20.

I guess i don't understand why we don't do a buy game against UWM once every three years. Would they be that opposed to it? They get the money for being the away team and don't have to travel. If the games are spread out enough, fans/media won't make a big deal that its always at Marquette. I wish they would be a little bit more open and say look we bring in 14K fans every game while UWM brings in 2k. We have no reason to play an extra away game, so it is up to UWM to play here.

Quote from: mupanther on July 10, 2016, 11:59:04 AM
Saturday, November 26- Houston Baptist

HPU was 17-16 last season, 224 in the RPI.

Lost in the first round of the CBI, to end the season at 17-17. Looks like they lose three starters.

The 17 wins was actually only 13 (4 non D-I victories don't do anything for the RPI). Were sitting at 225 in the RPI on Selection Sunday thanks to 10 conference wins (started 8-0, then nosedived, going 2-8 in their last 10 games leading up to the conference tourney).

Odunsi was a senior.. had a usage of 31.3 - top 20 in the nation - and a ridiculous free throw rate -- shot as many FT's as FG's and had the nation's highest estimated fouls drawn per 40 at 9.6. If you go back to pre-Odunsi.. 2013-14, the team won 4 D-I games.

Could turn out to be a stinker for our RPI.

Quote from: jsglow on July 10, 2016, 01:35:40 PM
Looking at this a little more.  I think they squeeze in a low cupcake on Sunday, 11/20.

Doubt it. They announce it in order by date.

Nov. 30 - Western Carolina.  Last year an RPI of 167.  Solid buy game.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 11, 2016, 10:18:11 AM
Nov. 30 - Western Carolina.  Last year an RPI of 167.  Solid buy game.

Good on paper, but from the looks of it, they're losing their top 4 scorers. Still better than Stetson

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 11, 2016, 10:18:11 AM
Nov. 30 - Western Carolina.  Last year an RPI of 167.  Solid buy game.

Lost their top four scorers from last year. Certainly could be worse and seems as though Broeker and Co. have learned their lesson from last year and are placing more of an emphasis on RPI

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 10, 2016, 03:00:56 PM
I guess i don't understand why we don't do a buy game against UWM once every three years. Would they be that opposed to it? They get the money for being the away team and don't have to travel. If the games are spread out enough, fans/media won't make a big deal that its always at Marquette. I wish they would be a little bit more open and say look we bring in 14K fans every game while UWM brings in 2k. We have no reason to play an extra away game, so it is up to UWM to play here.

UWM has zero issue with a 3 for 1...they'd do it in a heartbeat at this point. MU should no play a return game with UWM, full stop. MU is the one stopping a 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 because there is no value in Marquette playing a road game at UWM, giving up the revenue that comes with a home game and the opportunity to have a home and home with a legitimate opponent.

Quote from: Smokin' Jae on July 11, 2016, 10:40:54 AM
Lost their top four scorers from last year. Certainly could be worse and seems as though Broeker and Co. have learned their lesson from last year and are placing more of an emphasis on RPI

Actually not totally sold on the lesson learned here. Houston Baptist and Western Carolina would have been fine on the schedule last year....this year we don't know because there seems significant turnover on their rosters.

Western Carolina out performed last year....you'd have to go back to 2010 for the last time they finished in the top 200 in Kenpom, they are usually more of a 250 type team.

Houston Baptist was in the top 275 on KenPom for the first time ever last year, previously they hadn't finished higher than 314. So maybe HBU is trending up...but that could be a sub 300 RPI team....you only get one of those on the schedule in my opinion.

My worry is the post-Bucky, pre-conference games...those are usually Broeker's low value RPI games and we've already got at least one low value game likely in HBU.

Thoughts on the new announcements:

Houston Baptist

Last year's record was okay, but let's not forget they had 4 non-D1 wins, so their record was actually 13-16 in terms of RPI qualification. In the 5 years before that they totalled 31 wins (excluding D2 schools) so we are bringing in a school that averaged just 6.2 wins in the five years prior to last year's 13 wins, and they lose three of their top five in terms of minutes played (Odunsi, Stuckler, Crayton).

They do have some youngsters that could help pick up the slack, and may have a Marquette connection in the form of William Gates Jr. However, this is a team that plays in a poor league (I've got the Southland 3rd worst in the nation) and has a good chance of regressing. On paper, bringing in last year's 234 RPI team may seem like an improvement, but by season's end there's a very good chance they will be sub-300. Hope I'm wrong.

Western Carolina

At a glance, this will remind people of Houston Baptist. They had an uncharacteristically good year last year and lose four senior starters. While that is true, there are also reasons to be encouraged. The main one for me is Larry Hunter, entering his 12th season with the Catamounts. Hunter has won 8+ league games each of the past 8 seasons with an average of 10 league wins in that time. He knows his league and knows how to get results there. Even if they aren't great, they should at least be middle of the pack in their league, and getting 8+ wins virtually guarantees a team will at least have double-digit wins on the season.

Also during that eight year stretch, WCU has been in the top-100 in non-conference schedule every single year. They also play in a better low-major league (I rank them 12 of the 21 "buy game" type leagues), so in terms of the opponent's opponents factor in RPI, they shouldn't be a hindrance.

Losing Mike Brown and the rest of the senior class could lead to a huge drop-off, but Hunter is used to losing significant pieces and keeping his program going. I don't necessarily expect greatness, but 8-10 league wins and 12-15 total wins without hurting us from the opponent's opponents perspective is perfectly fine for a buy game.

Georgia (A)

December 4, that should be tomorrow's announcement.

I am cool with HBU and WCU if they're the two worst teams or 2/3 cupcakiest teams on the schedule. But if you add in MU's annual game or two with SWAC opponent and another 300+ RPI team, our non con schedule is going to be subpar, yet again.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on July 11, 2016, 02:31:16 PM
I am cool with HBU and WCU if they're the two worst teams or 2/3 cupcakiest teams on the schedule. But if you add in MU's annual game or two with SWAC opponent and another 300+ RPI team, our non con schedule is going to be subpar, yet again.

While I have the SWAC concern....what is known is already much better than last year so it won't be doom and gloom just yet. However, if we have more than 1 more 300+ RPI team(I think HBU will be) then we're in a tight spot.

There are only five "buy games" left right?  And we know one of them is Fresno. 

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 11, 2016, 02:51:51 PM
There are only five "buy games" left right?  And we know one of them is Fresno.

This is correct. There are 3 games likely left for the post-Bucky, pre-Con time slot

http://www.hubison.com/news/2016/7/11/howard-unveils-2016-17-mens-basketball-schedule.aspx

Howard @ Marquette 11/14

Howard play Michigan on 11/11

Really hoping for Eastern Michigan or Gardner-Webb for that second 2K home game. One of those and three decent buy games and this will be a great schedule. Even 2/3 decent buy games would be a quality slate.

Quote from: mu03eng on July 11, 2016, 02:52:31 PM
This is correct. There are 3 games likely left for the post-Bucky, pre-Con time slot

I thought we figured out there was only two.

One between UGA and UW
UW game December 10
Finals week begin Dec 12 (usually no game)
One on the weekend of Dec 17 and 18
One additional game prior to Christmas.

I am guessing there won't be one between Christmas and the December 28 conference opener.

So will there be TWO buy games during the conference season?  I guess that's what you get when you cram the conference start into two games ending December and the first couple days in January. 

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 11, 2016, 03:28:37 PM
I thought we figured out there was only two.

One between UGA and UW
UW game December 10
Finals week begin Dec 12 (usually no game)
One on the weekend of Dec 17 and 18
One additional game prior to Christmas.

I am guessing there won't be one between Christmas and the December 28 conference opener.

So will there be TWO buy games during the conference season?  I guess that's what you get when you cram the conference start into two games ending December and the first couple days in January.

Probably right, I forgot that the conference season starts so soon this year. 2 buy games during the conference season just seems like a recipe for complaint and two 300+ RPI games.

11/11/16 vs. Vanderbilt
11/14/16 Howard
11/17/16 Michigan/Pittsburgh/SMU
11/18/16 TBA New York, N.Y
11/22/16 IUPUI/EMU/Gardner-Webb Milwaukee, Wis. TBA
11/26/16 vs. Houston Baptist Milwaukee, Wis. TBA
11/30/16 vs. Western Carolina

12/4/16 @ Georgia
12/7/16 TBA at the BC
12/10/16 Wisconsin

It looks like one during conference play.

Quote from: mu03eng on July 11, 2016, 03:47:52 PM
Probably right, I forgot that the conference season starts so soon this year. 2 buy games during the conference season just seems like a recipe for complaint and two 300+ RPI games.

Or maybe two games the week of December 19? 

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 11, 2016, 03:55:25 PM

Or maybe two games the week of December 19?

Maybe they go 18th and 22rd?

Quote from: mu03eng on July 11, 2016, 04:03:53 PM
Maybe they go 18th and 22rd?

I was thinking...

Saturday, December 17
Monday, December 19
Thursday, December 22

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 11, 2016, 04:07:38 PM

I was thinking...

Saturday, December 17
Monday, December 19
Thursday, December 22

It'd be tight, but I could also see them going 17th, 20th and 26th...still think they want a game between Christmas and conference start....don't want to have a week off then jump into league play.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 11, 2016, 04:07:38 PM

I was thinking...

Saturday, December 17
Monday, December 19
Thursday, December 22

I was thinking those exact dates today. Either that or has to be a conference season game.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 11, 2016, 04:07:38 PM

I was thinking...

Saturday, December 17
Monday, December 19
Thursday, December 22

We've done things like that before. Would give the players part of 4 days home.  Probably due back evening of 12/26.  Frankly expecting college kids to open conference on 12/28 is crazy.  That'll put games less than 48 hours after the legal holiday.

Quote from: mu03eng on July 11, 2016, 04:32:53 PM
It'd be tight, but I could also see them going 17th, 20th and 26th...still think they want a game between Christmas and conference start....don't want to have a week off then jump into league play.

Really?  On the legal holiday?  I guess I can see that more than on the 25th, I suppose.

Quote from: mu03eng on July 11, 2016, 04:32:53 PM
It'd be tight, but I could also see them going 17th, 20th and 26th...still think they want a game between Christmas and conference start....don't want to have a week off then jump into league play.

Other than one rare game, nobody plays on Dec. 26st.

Quote from: jsglow on July 11, 2016, 06:33:13 PM
We've done things like that before. Would give the players part of 4 days home.  Probably due back evening of 12/26.  Frankly expecting college kids to open conference on 12/28 is crazy.  That'll put games less than 48 hours after the legal holiday.

I think it is pretty common.  The Big Ten usually opens their season before the 31st.

Opening post updated with information we now know. Howard having Marquette on their schedule for 11/14 yesterday is conclusive enough for me even though it's been taken down. Same thing happened with Belmont last year and the date originally released proved correct.

Georgia on December 4 made official today. That's going to be a tough game. They lose two starters, but JJ Frazier is ridiculous. Put up 16.9 ppg/4.6 rpg/4.4 apg last year and his efficiency numbers were straight out of a video game. Yante Maten is another very good player that could give us fits in the frontcourt. Good chance they'll be in the mix for a tourney berth come March.

Quote from: mu03eng on July 11, 2016, 10:42:43 AM
UWM has zero issue with a 3 for 1...they'd do it in a heartbeat at this point. MU should no play a return game with UWM, full stop. MU is the one stopping a 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 because there is no value in Marquette playing a road game at UWM, giving up the revenue that comes with a home game and the opportunity to have a home and home with a legitimate opponent.

I said I don't understand why UWM wouldn't just play us at MU once every three years. I could see why they wouldn't want to play here every year based on scheduling and PR reasons. MU obviously doesn't want there to be play at UWM. I think they could get by where they have they can hype up the game to make it a sell out from MU's perspective (excitement if it's only once per 3-4 years) and UWM gets paid like an away game without the travel.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 12, 2016, 11:14:32 AM
I said I don't understand why UWM wouldn't just play us at MU once every three years. I could see why they wouldn't want to play here every year based on scheduling and PR reasons. MU obviously doesn't want there to be play at UWM. I think they could get by where they have they can hype up the game to make it a sell out from MU's perspective (excitement if it's only once per 3-4 years) and UWM gets paid like an away game without the travel.

Marquette won't pay them like an away game without the travel.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 12, 2016, 11:14:32 AM
I said I don't understand why UWM wouldn't just play us at MU once every three years. I could see why they wouldn't want to play here every year based on scheduling and PR reasons. MU obviously doesn't want there to be play at UWM. I think they could get by where they have they can hype up the game to make it a sell out from MU's perspective (excitement if it's only once per 3-4 years) and UWM gets paid like an away game without the travel.

I don't think UWM would take a deal for an occasional road game with MU. It treats UWM(mostly because they are) like a mid-major doormat....they wouldn't swallow their pride for that. They wouldn't do that for Madison either and they are much more inclined to be supportive with a fellow dash school

As long as UW-Madison gives them the 3-for-1 deal, I don't expect UW-Milwaukee (or Green Bay) to take less than that from Marquette. They have more incentive because they're all part of the same system, but we've got no such motivation.

Here's the thing...we're 39-0 against Milwaukee. That's the best undefeated series in NCAA history. Until someone else gets to 40-0, why bother playing them? When we win, we're just the crosstown bully, and when we lose, we're ridiculed. Where's the upside in that? If we're going to give a 3-for-1 to a Horizon team (we shouldn't) I'd rather do it for Detroit and help a fellow Catholic school. Makes more sense than helping the Hyphens and less downside to losing.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 12, 2016, 01:38:50 PM
If we're going to give a 3-for-1 to a Horizon team (we shouldn't) I'd rather do it for Detroit and help a fellow Catholic school.

Plus the homecoming for Ike Eke.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 12, 2016, 01:38:50 PM
As long as UW-Madison gives them the 3-for-1 deal, I don't expect UW-Milwaukee (or Green Bay) to take less than that from Marquette. They have more incentive because they're all part of the same system, but we've got no such motivation.

Here's the thing...we're 39-0 against Milwaukee. That's the best undefeated series in NCAA history. Until someone else gets to 40-0, why bother playing them? When we win, we're just the crosstown bully, and when we lose, we're ridiculed. Where's the upside in that? If we're going to give a 3-for-1 to a Horizon team (we shouldn't) I'd rather do it for Detroit and help a fellow Catholic school. Makes more sense than helping the Hyphens and less downside to losing.

For the sake of Ike we need to do a 3:1 with Detroit.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 12, 2016, 01:45:19 PM
For the sake of Ike we need to do a 3:1 with Detroit.

And make the 1 the first game of the series so that when he's a 1 and done he'll have gotten a homecoming in college, am I right?

Quote from: wadesworld on July 12, 2016, 01:47:45 PM
And make the 1 the first game of the series so that when he's a 1 and done he'll have gotten a homecoming in college, am I right?

UNC did the UNI game in Marcus Paige senior year.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 12, 2016, 01:50:20 PM
UNC did the UNI game in Marcus Paige senior year.

UNI is also a legitimate opponent, and UNC has (had?) country-wide appeal.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 12, 2016, 01:45:19 PM
For the sake of Ike we need to do a 3:1 with Detroit.

Could be Oakland as well, not just Detroit.

Quote from: bradley center bat on July 11, 2016, 03:54:14 PM
11/11/16 vs. Vanderbilt
11/14/16 Howard
11/17/16 Michigan/Pittsburgh/SMU
11/18/16 TBA New York, N.Y
11/22/16 IUPUI/EMU/Gardner-Webb Milwaukee, Wis. TBA
11/26/16 vs. Houston Baptist Milwaukee, Wis. TBA
11/30/16 vs. Western Carolina

12/4/16 @ Georgia
12/7/16 TBA at the BC
12/10/16 Wisconsin

It looks like one during conference play.

We can only play 13 non-conference games, if the tournament includes four games. We have two games in New York. Are there two more games associated with this tournament?

Quote from: bilsu on July 12, 2016, 02:33:15 PM
We can only play 13 non-conference games, if the tournament includes four games. We have two games in New York. Are there two more games associated with this tournament?

11/14 presumably v. Howard
11/22 v. IUPUI/EMU/Gardner Webb.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 12, 2016, 02:37:13 PM
11/14 presumably v. Howard
11/22 v. IUPUI/EMU/Gardner Webb.

That is what I was thinking, but thought it odd that the game was after New York.

That whole tournament is odd.  It's the week before Thanksgiving which means two home games during Thanksgiving week.  Ghost town.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 12, 2016, 01:38:50 PM
If we're going to give a 3-for-1 to a Horizon team (we shouldn't) I'd rather do it for Detroit and help a fellow Catholic school. Makes more sense than helping the Hyphens and less downside to losing.

....not only Catholic.......Jesuit!

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 12, 2016, 12:23:38 PM

Marquette won't pay them like an away game without the travel.

Why wouldn't they? Would they rather play a lower RPI team that doesn't draw as well that they have to fly in from Alabama. As long as they don;t have to give up a home game, who cares is the traveling team has to travel or not.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 12, 2016, 08:11:38 PM
Why wouldn't they? Would they rather play a lower RPI team that doesn't draw as well that they have to fly in from Alabama. As long as they don;t have to give up a home game, who cares is the traveling team has to travel or not.

There is bad blood with regards to UWM within the MU athletic department from the previous deal. They would rather pay more for someone else to come in and not give UWM the satisfaction. Whether you want to believe this or not the decision has nothing to do with pure logic. There is no benefit to MU to play UWM other than saving a couple of grand and I actually doubt UWM would provide a "discount" since they don't have to travel...consider it little brother syndrome.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 12, 2016, 08:11:38 PM
Why wouldn't they? Would they rather play a lower RPI team that doesn't draw as well that they have to fly in from Alabama. As long as they don;t have to give up a home game, who cares is the traveling team has to travel or not.

Because Marquette isn't stupid. You don't pay a team to drive across town the same as you would fly a team to fly into Milwaukee.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 12, 2016, 07:35:44 PM
That whole tournament is odd.  It's the week before Thanksgiving which means two home games during Thanksgiving week.  Ghost town.

Well, one game is days before Thanksgiving. It will happen with the handfull of exempt tournaments that are the week before Thanksgiving.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 12, 2016, 10:52:31 AM
Opening post updated with information we now know. Howard having Marquette on their schedule for 11/14 yesterday is conclusive enough for me even though it's been taken down. Same thing happened with Belmont last year and the date originally released proved correct.

Georgia on December 4 made official today. That's going to be a tough game. They lose two starters, but JJ Frazier is ridiculous. Put up 16.9 ppg/4.6 rpg/4.4 apg last year and his efficiency numbers were straight out of a video game. Yante Maten is another very good player that could give us fits in the frontcourt. Good chance they'll be in the mix for a tourney berth come March.

If there was any doubt, the Howard game is now on the Marquette website.

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/marq-m-baskbl-sched.html

Quote from: mu03eng on July 12, 2016, 08:23:34 PM
There is bad blood with regards to UWM within the MU athletic department from the previous deal. They would rather pay more for someone else to come in and not give UWM the satisfaction. Whether you want to believe this or not the decision has nothing to do with pure logic. There is no benefit to MU to play UWM other than saving a couple of grand and I actually doubt UWM would provide a "discount" since they don't have to travel...consider it little brother syndrome.

As far as the bad blood goes, I remember Marquette putting zero effort in to advertising MU playing the game at the now-Panther Arena.  I also remember being at that game and it was nowhere near sold out.  Marquette doesn't sell out the BC for UWM, either.

This isn't a hottest ticket in town scenario.  If there's not demand from the paying public, why bother?

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 12, 2016, 01:38:50 PM
As long as UW-Madison gives them the 3-for-1 deal, I don't expect UW-Milwaukee (or Green Bay) to take less than that from Marquette. They have more incentive because they're all part of the same system, but we've got no such motivation.

Here's the thing...we're 39-0 against Milwaukee. That's the best undefeated series in NCAA history. Until someone else gets to 40-0, why bother playing them? When we win, we're just the crosstown bully, and when we lose, we're ridiculed. Where's the upside in that? If we're going to give a 3-for-1 to a Horizon team (we shouldn't) I'd rather do it for Detroit and help a fellow Catholic school. Makes more sense than helping the Hyphens and less downside to losing.

Pretty sure the best undefeated series is Syracuse vs Colgate. Remember reading this a few years back

Quote from: Brewtown Andy on July 12, 2016, 11:29:00 PM
As far as the bad blood goes, I remember Marquette putting zero effort in to advertising MU playing the game at the now-Panther Arena.  I also remember being at that game and it was nowhere near sold out.  Marquette doesn't sell out the BC for UWM, either.

This isn't a hottest ticket in town scenario.  If there's not demand from the paying public, why bother?

The last two  three home games with UWM drew 14.917 (12/22/11) and 14,244 (12/8/09) and 15,168 (11/22/08). So I think it is safe to say there is plenty of demand for this product.

I believe UWM and UWGB games are perfect for the time period when school is out of session.

Quote from: Brewtown Andy on July 12, 2016, 11:29:00 PM
As far as the bad blood goes, I remember Marquette putting zero effort in to advertising MU playing the game at the now-Panther Arena.  I also remember being at that game and it was nowhere near sold out.  Marquette doesn't sell out the BC for UWM, either.

This isn't a hottest ticket in town scenario.  If there's not demand from the paying public, why bother?

I would hate to be the MU coach that actually loses to UWM. Imagine MUScoop after that game.

Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on July 13, 2016, 07:17:23 AM
Pretty sure the best undefeated series is Syracuse vs Colgate. Remember reading this a few years back

Longest winning streak, yes, but Colgate has defeated Syracuse. You just have to go way back.

EDIT: Colgate has defeated Syracuse on 45 occasions and it used to be a competitive series, but none since 1962.

http://www.orangehoops.org/CompetitorResults/Colgate.htm

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 13, 2016, 07:39:47 AM
The last two  three home games with UWM drew 14.917 (12/22/11) and 14,244 (12/8/09) and 15,168 (11/22/08). So I think it is safe to say there is plenty of demand for this product.

I believe UWM and UWGB games are perfect for the time period when school is out of session.

You're looking at the numbers wrong. All of those totals were below the season average for sales. Just because we're drawing 13k now doesn't mean it was always like that. Each of those seasons you mention the average sales was over 15,000. And I'm guessing there were quite a few fans dressed as empty seats.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 13, 2016, 09:14:03 AM
You're looking at the numbers wrong. All of those totals were below the season average for sales. Just because we're drawing 13k now doesn't mean it was always like that. Each of those seasons you mention the average sales was over 15,000. And I'm guessing there were quite a few fans dressed as empty seats.

Yeah but #narrative

Quote from: Brewtown Andy on July 12, 2016, 11:29:00 PM
As far as the bad blood goes, I remember Marquette putting zero effort in to advertising MU playing the game at the now-Panther Arena. 

And this is really the essence of the problem right?  UWM is mad that Marquette didn't spend money to help UWM make money.  Well screw 'em.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 13, 2016, 09:14:03 AM
You're looking at the numbers wrong. All of those totals were below the season average for sales. Just because we're drawing 13k now doesn't mean it was always like that. Each of those seasons you mention the average sales was over 15,000. And I'm guessing there were quite a few fans dressed as empty seats.

Exactly

08/09 Avg. Attendance - 16,200
13,668 - Houston Baptist
13,158 - Central Michigan
13,470 - IPFW
13,653 - Western Carolina
13,879 - Presbyterian
15,168 - UWM (Sat. night game)
In a prime slot on a Sat. night, UWM drew an extra 1,600 people buying upper deck cheap seats over the average of 13,565 for those other crappy games.

09/10 Avg. Attendance - 15,617
14,093 - Centenary
13,511 - Maryland East. Shore
13,716 - Grambling
13,731 - South Dakota
14,117 - North Florida
14,321 - Presbyterian
14,244 - UWM
So UWM drew an extra 300 people over the average of 13,914 for those other crappy games.  Again, the expensive lower bowl seats are already sold out with season ticket holders, so those extra people probably spent $15/ticket in the upper deck.  UWM cost MU more than those other buy games and we probably made an extra $4,500 before the additional costs to help make UWM look more legitimate and have everyone in the local media crap on MU for a week.

11/12 Avg. Attendance - 15,138
13,834 - Mount St. Marys
12,765 - Norfolk
12,848 - Jacksonville
14,208 - UWGB
13,593 - N. Colorado
14,917 - UWM
UWM drew 1,467 more than the average of13,450 for those other buy games.  In exchange for all this we had to give up a home-game the previous year, which probably cost us $400,000.

n/m

Quote from: Litehouse on July 13, 2016, 09:47:48 AM
Exactly

08/09 Avg. Attendance - 16,200
13,668 - Houston Baptist
13,158 - Central Michigan
13,470 - IPFW
13,653 - Western Carolina
13,879 - Presbyterian
15,168 - UWM (Sat. night game)
In a prime slot on a Sat. night, UWM drew an extra 1,600 people buying upper deck cheap seats over the average of 13,565 for those other crappy games.

09/10 Avg. Attendance - 15,617
14,093 - Centenary
13,511 - Maryland East. Shore
13,716 - Grambling
13,731 - South Dakota
14,117 - North Florida
14,321 - Presbyterian
14,244 - UWM
So UWM drew an extra 300 people over the average of 13,914 for those other crappy games.  Again, the expensive lower bowl seats are already sold out with season ticket holders, so those extra people probably spent $15/ticket in the upper deck.  UWM cost MU more than those other buy games and we probably made an extra $4,500 before the additional costs to help make UWM look more legitimate and have everyone in the local media crap on MU for a week.

11/12 Avg. Attendance - 15,138
13,834 - Mount St. Marys
12,765 - Norfolk
12,848 - Jacksonville
14,208 - UWGB
13,593 - N. Colorado
14,917 - UWM
UWM drew 1,467 more than the average of13,450 for those other buy games.  In exchange for all this we had to give up a home-game the previous year, which probably cost us $400,000.

To complete the analysis, you'd also have to look at the number of season ticket holders in a given year. There is a baked number of tickets already, and as you point out UWM barely cleared more "walk ups" than someone like Northern Colorado and we had to give up a games worth of revenue to get that.

UWM can go suck a lemon.

Fresno State is on Dec. 6 or 7th.

Quote from: mupanther on July 13, 2016, 10:10:09 AM
Fresno State is on Dec. 6 or 7th.

Schedule says 12/6.

Schedule is solid so far.  Wisconsin should be next announcement. 

Let's just hope that isn't followed up by three dregs of the NCAA.

Quote from: bilsu on July 12, 2016, 07:18:33 PM
That is what I was thinking, but thought it odd that the game was after New York.

The exempt tournament thing is an sham. They can marry up misc other/non-bracketed games as long as all 4 games are within 2 weeks of each other (17.3.5.1.1(b))

MU vs Michigan is set, Pitt/SMU for 2K.

Quote from: MUDish on July 13, 2016, 11:11:31 AM
MU vs Michigan is set, Pitt/SMU for 2K.

This is an excellent opportunity for a quality win.

IUPUI on  on Tues Nov 22 as part of the 2k classic. Rematch of last years game that went to OT.  188 in RPI last year.

Quote from: mu03eng on July 13, 2016, 10:08:40 AM
To complete the analysis, you'd also have to look at the number of season ticket holders in a given year. There is a baked number of tickets already, and as you point out UWM barely cleared more "walk ups" than someone like Northern Colorado and we had to give up a games worth of revenue to get that.

UWM can go suck a lemon.

I would also throw out the first game in computing the average attendance.  As that game is going to receive a larger draw, regardless of opponent.  Though I don't think it would make much of a difference in this analysis.

RPI wise, really would have preferred Gardner-Webb or Eastern Michigan. We got the short end of the stick there.

However, with the rest of the opening schedule I can't be too disappointed. The remaining cupcakes need to solid and we'll be in good shape. Vandy, Michigan, Pitt/SMU, Wisconsin, Georgia, Fresno State are all good games.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on July 13, 2016, 10:42:04 AM
Schedule says 12/6.

Does it?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnQDeg-WYAAOWtb.jpg

MarquetteMBB ‏@MarquetteMBB  · 3h3 hours ago 

.@Bucks schedule will determine game date vs. @FresnoStateMBB. #mubb claimed 1st meeting in 1979.

Quote from: MuEagle1090 on July 13, 2016, 11:56:17 AM
RPI wise, really would have preferred Gardner-Webb or Eastern Michigan.

Me too, but IUPUI took Marquette to overtime last season.

Quote from: mupanther on July 13, 2016, 12:07:24 PM
Does it?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnQDeg-WYAAOWtb.jpg

MarquetteMBB ‏@MarquetteMBB  · 3h3 hours ago 

.@Bucks schedule will determine game date vs. @FresnoStateMBB. #mubb claimed 1st meeting in 1979.

It does, but I didn't see that tweet.

Quote from: MuEagle1090 on July 13, 2016, 11:56:17 AM
RPI wise, really would have preferred Gardner-Webb or Eastern Michigan. We got the short end of the stick there.

However, with the rest of the opening schedule I can't be too disappointed. The remaining cupcakes need to solid and we'll be in good shape. Vandy, Michigan, Pitt/SMU, Wisconsin, Georgia, Fresno State are all good games.

If IUPUI can finish in top 200 in RPI again, or even top 250, it'll be OK. 

I hope that we still have another neutral site game, plus two more buys in the 100-200 range. 10 games scheduled and released now (including UW), so still 3 more to announce.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on July 13, 2016, 12:18:20 PM
If IUPUI can finish in top 200 in RPI again, or even top 250, it'll be OK. 

I hope that we still have another neutral site game, plus two more buys in the 100-200 range. 10 games scheduled and released now (including UW), so still 3 more to announce.

To expect a 150ish RPI game during that slot before Christmas (excluding the 17th itself) isn't realistic in my mine.  Just hope for 275-300, not 325-350.

Quote from: jsglow on July 13, 2016, 12:22:46 PM
To expect a 150ish RPI game during that slot before Christmas (excluding the 17th itself) isn't realistic in my mine.  Just hope for 275-300, not 325-350.

Just curious why you think that?  150ish RPI teams have to play games too.

This is where we need to remember Jay Bee's comment that RPI doesn't really matter. IUPUI went 12-18 in games that mattered last year. Sure their RPI was good but you're better off playing a team that actually wins games. Could be worse, but EMU and GWU both looked like better bets.

With respect to UWM - while it may not generate any more walk up, it probably does generate more people actually showing up.  As a 23 year STH I eat more and more buy games every year.  I would always attend a UWM or UWGB game.  And I know many around me feel the same way.  The problem we have as MU fans is MU has very little incentive to make sure we show up.  They get minimal concessions and minimal merchandise from the BMO BC so once they've sold the seat, they're done.   

Quote from: The Lens on July 13, 2016, 01:05:29 PM
With respect to UWM - while it may not generate any more walk up, it probably does generate more people actually showing up.  As a 23 year STH I eat more and more buy games every year.  I would always attend a UWM or UWGB game.  And I know many around me feel the same way.  The problem we have as MU fans is MU has very little incentive to make sure we show up.  They get minimal concessions and minimal merchandise from the BMO BC so once they've sold the seat, they're done.

I went to the last UWGB game at the BC, and to your point, the people actually showed up in the stands. Lower Bowl was full and significant amount of people in the uppers. School was out.  I believe these local teams have a place in our schedule  as an alternative  to the junk buy games we consistently get.

Look at Michigan State, they consistently have Oakland, EMU, WMU, CMU, Detroit on their schedule. They sell out every game regardless, so they obviously see value in it.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 13, 2016, 01:24:45 PM

Look at Michigan State, they consistently have Oakland, EMU, WMU, CMU, Detroit on their schedule. They sell out every game regardless, so they obviously see value in it.

A smaller stadium and much larger fan base helps a little I think.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 13, 2016, 01:24:45 PM
I went to the last UWGB game at the BC, and to your point, the people actually showed up in the stands. Lower Bowl was full and significant amount of people in the uppers. School was out.  I believe these local teams have a place in our schedule  as an alternative  to the junk buy games we consistently get.

Look at Michigan State, they consistently have Oakland, EMU, WMU, CMU, Detroit on their schedule. They sell out every game regardless, so they obviously see value in it.

Marquette isn't Michigan State.

Quote from: MuEagle1090 on July 13, 2016, 11:56:17 AM
RPI wise, really would have preferred Gardner-Webb or Eastern Michigan. We got the short end of the stick there.

I'm not sold on Gardner-Webb, they lose 4 starters and will have a done year. I actually think IUPUI might be the better team. Howard will have a low RPI but they are almost guaranteed to have a winning conference record. Could end up being a decent cupcake for our RPI.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on July 13, 2016, 12:36:20 PM
Just curious why you think that?  150ish RPI teams have to play games too.

Because with the exception of some quality H/H (Vandy and ASU a few years ago come to mind), Marquette has often played some of its weakest opponents in that week before Christmas.  You know, those teams that do 3 week road trips in late December so they can afford gas for the bus during their conference season.  Last year Chicago State, the year before Alabama A&M.  Stuff like that.

Look, our non-con is already credible.  I'd be very surprised is another team better than RPI 225 is announced.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 13, 2016, 01:46:34 PM

Marquette isn't Michigan State.

But Marquette is in the State of Michigan. Am I right?

Quote from: jsglow on July 13, 2016, 02:08:34 PM
Because with the exception of some quality H/H (Vandy and ASU a few years ago come to mind), Marquette has often played some of its weakest opponents in that week before Christmas. You know, those teams that do 3 week road trips in late December so they can afford gas for the bus during their conference season.  Last year Chicago State, the year before Alabama A&M.  Stuff like that.

Look, our non-con is already credible.  I'd be very surprised is another team better than RPI 225 is announced.

I know that is what recent history seems to indicate will be the case , but I hope that they've learned. If MU's final three games to be announced are all dog poop teams, we're still going to be hurting from an RPI perspective, barring some real surprise seasons from Western Carolina, Houston Baptist, and whatever else is rolled out.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on July 13, 2016, 02:24:34 PM
I know that is what recent history seems to indicate will be the case , but I hope that they've learned. If MU's final three games to be announced are all dog poop teams, we're still going to be hurting from an RPI perspective, barring some real surprise seasons from Western Carolina, Houston Baptist, and whatever else is rolled out.

I'm simply suggesting that we temper our expectations and pray we avoid Grambling or Chicago St. again.

Even Duke is getting ripped for a weak non-con schedule: http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2016/07/13/dukes-unimpressive-non-conference-schedule-bad-for-the-sport/

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 13, 2016, 01:46:34 PM

Marquette isn't Michigan State.

We aspire to be though.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 13, 2016, 03:19:35 PM
We aspire to be though.

Right.  The way Marquette becomes Michigan State is by whooping up on Horizon League in-state opponents.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 13, 2016, 04:38:20 PM

Right.  The way Marquette becomes Michigan State is by whooping up on Horizon League in-state opponents.

I would prefer the in state games to Grambling and North Carolina Central.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 12, 2016, 08:27:45 PM
Because Marquette isn't stupid. You don't pay a team to drive across town the same as you would fly a team to fly into Milwaukee.

That's just a stupid way to run a business. you don't make decisions based on pride or the other businesses profit. You make the decision based on what's best for you. If UWM is the same price as a southern school but you get an opponent with better RPI and interest from the fanbase you take that deal. Who cares if UWM profits? It just sounds petty and cheap to take away a game lots of fans would be interested in seeing.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 13, 2016, 06:26:18 PM
That's just a stupid way to run a business. you don't make decisions based on pride or the other businesses profit. You make the decision based on what's best for you. If UWM is the same price as a southern school but you get an opponent with better RPI and interest from the fanbase you take that deal. Who cares if UWM profits? It just sounds petty and cheap to take away a game lots of fans would be interested in seeing.

One of my fundamental rules of business is don't look in the other guys pocket. Be satisfied with what works for you.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 13, 2016, 06:26:18 PM
That's just a stupid way to run a business. you don't make decisions based on pride or the other businesses profit. You make the decision based on what's best for you. If UWM is the same price as a southern school but you get an opponent with better RPI and interest from the fanbase you take that deal. Who cares if UWM profits? It just sounds petty and cheap to take away a game lots of fans would be interested in seeing.

"Lots of fans"  LOL.  Not really.

And UWM can take it or leave it.  They don't take it, they can go somewhere else. 

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 13, 2016, 08:32:03 PM
One of my fundamental rules of business is don't look in the other guys pocket. Be satisfied with what works for you.

Sometimes a guy can't help but be jealous of what Dayton has, a''ina?

Quote from: Jay Bee on July 13, 2016, 08:42:40 PM
Sometimes a guy can't help but be jealous of what Dayton has, a''ina?

I am through with Kostas until he decides to do a Luke and becomes homesick. I am on to Theo John and Terrance Lewis.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 13, 2016, 08:41:37 PM

"Lots of fans"  LOL.  Not really.

And UWM can take it or leave it.  They don't take it, they can go somewhere else.

BTW, didn't the UWM program just go through a meltdown?

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 13, 2016, 06:26:18 PM
That's just a stupid way to run a business. you don't make decisions based on pride or the other businesses profit. You make the decision based on what's best for you. If UWM is the same price as a southern school but you get an opponent with better RPI and interest from the fanbase you take that deal. Who cares if UWM profits? It just sounds petty and cheap to take away a game lots of fans would be interested in seeing.

But everything about this is wrong. First, it's not the same cost. To get UWM, Marquette would have to give up a home game every four years. So you bring in an extra 500-1,000 people for that game versus another buy team but give up a home game that will sell at least 10,000 tickets? That's senseless. 10,000 > 3,000.

So if the cost is not the same, and fan interest is marginal, both of which we've established are pretty clearly the case, where's the incentive? The only reason to do it is to help UWM out. But based on past history, they can't sell their building out even when they do play us, so if the motivation is altruistic, it's also a flawed reason.

Further, the odds of playing on the road decrease your win chances significantly. Why risk a loss to Milwaukee when you could buy a comparable win with a team from further away?

Giving up a home game to get UWM on the schedule doesn't make dollars or sense.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 14, 2016, 05:34:08 AM
But everything about this is wrong. First, it's not the same cost. To get UWM, Marquette would have to give up a home game every four years. So you bring in an extra 500-1,000 people for that game versus another buy team but give up a home game that will sell at least 10,000 tickets? That's senseless. 10,000 > 3,000.

So if the cost is not the same, and fan interest is marginal, both of which we've established are pretty clearly the case, where's the incentive? The only reason to do it is to help UWM out. But based on past history, they can't sell their building out even when they do play us, so if the motivation is altruistic, it's also a flawed reason.

Further, the odds of playing on the road decrease your win chances significantly. Why risk a loss to Milwaukee when you could buy a comparable win with a team from further away?

Giving up a home game to get UWM on the schedule doesn't make dollars or sense.

Plus if you want to improve the RPI it needs to be by playing teams that will win games. I have zero confidence in UWM having success the next couple of years given the state of that program that would make them a coveted RPI opponent

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 13, 2016, 11:46:52 PM
I am through with Kostas until he decides to do a Luke and becomes homesick. I am on to Theo John and Terrance Lewis.

That isn't going to be nearly as much fun for the rest of us

If road games are so tough to win, wouldn't you want that road game to be across the street from your gym and one where you'll have several thousand fans?  And one that has no travel costs?

Matchup with @BadgerMBB will cap busy week for #mubb. MU will then break for finals before last 2 non-league games.

Guessing those will be Dec. 17th or 18th and 21st or 22nd.

Quote from: MUfan12 on July 14, 2016, 09:42:04 AM
Matchup with @BadgerMBB will cap busy week for #mubb. MU will then break for finals before last 2 non-league games.

Guessing those will be Dec. 17th or 18th and 21st or 22nd.

Aren't they a game short then?

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 14, 2016, 09:43:06 AM
Aren't they a game short then?

Two more non-con games leaves them at 17 home games, 30 overall. Plus the gate on the exhibition game they're sticking us with.

Looking back, it's either been 30 or 31 regular season games, and 16 or 17 home games. Last year was a bit of an outlier when it came to the home schedule.

Quote from: MUfan12 on July 14, 2016, 09:50:09 AM
Two more non-con games leaves them at 17 home games, 30 overall. Plus the gate on the exhibition game they're sticking us with.

Looking back, it's either been 30 or 31 regular season games, and 16 or 17 home games. Last year was a bit of an outlier when it came to the home schedule.

OK thank you.

Quote from: MUfan12 on July 14, 2016, 09:50:09 AM
Two more non-con games leaves them at 17 home games, 30 overall. Plus the gate on the exhibition game they're sticking us with.

Looking back, it's either been 30 or 31 regular season games, and 16 or 17 home games. Last year was a bit of an outlier when it came to the home schedule.

But it's a 4 game exempt tourney.  Has Marquette ever left an available buy game on the table?  Is that what they would be doing if they didn't play #31?

Quote from: MUfan12 on July 14, 2016, 09:50:09 AM
Two more non-con games leaves them at 17 home games, 30 overall. Plus the gate on the exhibition game they're sticking us with.

Looking back, it's either been 30 or 31 regular season games, and 16 or 17 home games. Last year was a bit of an outlier when it came to the home schedule.

Last year was a heavy with 20 home games.

Quote from: jsglow on July 14, 2016, 09:59:34 AM
But it's a 4 game exempt tourney.  Has Marquette ever left an available buy game on the table?  Is that what they would be doing if they didn't play #31?

They would be leaving a game on the table.  I can't say if they have done this before.

Here's the breakdown (home, away, neutral) from the last 6 schedules.

H     A    N   T 15-16   19   10   2   31 14-15   17   10   3   30 13-14   16   12   3   31 12-13   16   11   3   30 11-12   16   11   4   31 10-11   18   11   2   31

Have heard in the past that MU needs at least 16 home dates on the schedule to make enough money. Not sure if that has changed with the decline in STH numbers.

Quote from: MUfan12 on July 14, 2016, 10:12:10 AM
Here's the breakdown from the last 6 schedules.

Home  Away Neutral   Total 15-16   19   10   2   31 14-15   17   10   3   30 13-14   16   12   3   31 12-13   16   11   3   30 11-12   16   11   4   31 10-11   18   11   2   31

I'm too lazy to do the work.  The operative question is whether those 30 games seasons were always associated with 3 game exempt tournaments while the 31 associated with 4 game.

Quote from: jsglow on July 14, 2016, 10:15:41 AM
I'm too lazy to do the work.  The operative question is whether those 30 games seasons were always associated with 3 game exempt tournaments while the 31 associated with 4 game.

15-16: 2 home games + 2 in Brooklyn
14-15: 3 in Florida
13-14: 3 in Cali
12-13: 1 home game + 3 in Maui
11-12: 1 home game + 3 in Virgin Islands
10-11: 2 in KC

Doesn't appear to be much of a correlation.

Last year MU played 13 non-con games, including the Stetson game in the middle of the BE season.

Wojo's first year, MU only played 12 non-con games.

I see no reason to leave a game on the table.  Seems dumb to me.  Maybe they were planning on that being the Utah game, and it just feel apart?

NOT INCLUDING EXHIBITIONS.

Quote from: MUfan12 on July 14, 2016, 10:12:10 AM
Here's the breakdown (home, away, neutral) from the last 6 schedules.

H     A    N   T 15-16   19   10   2   31 14-15   17   10   3   30 13-14   16   12   3   31 12-13   16   11   3   30 11-12   16   11   4   31 10-11   18   11   2   31

Have heard in the past that MU needs at least 16 home dates on the schedule to make enough money. Not sure if that has changed with the decline in STH numbers.

In 2014-15, we played 30 because we only got 3 games from the Orlando Classic. They did have home games for some of the teams involved, but we weren't one of them. In 2012-13, we played 30 because the Ohio State game on the Yorktown was cancelled and we didn't get a make-up game anywhere in the season. I've never known of Marquette to leave a game on the table before when they could have had a home date.

This would give us a breakdown of 17 home games, 10 away games, and 3 neutral site games. Not sure why they wouldn't want the 18th game at home from a financial perspective. Though I suppose, STHs pay the same whether there are 17 or 18 home games.

Note that I'm not angling for another lousy home game.  20 last year was too many.  But I'd use that last slot to maybe do a quality 3-1 or 2-1, even if we start it on the road and are owed the multiples on the back end.  I view this like when we leave a scholly on the table unnecessarily.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 14, 2016, 10:25:38 AM
In 2014-15, we played 30 because we only got 3 games from the Orlando Classic. They did have home games for some of the teams involved, but we weren't one of them. In 2012-13, we played 30 because the Ohio State game on the Yorktown was cancelled and we didn't get a make-up game anywhere in the season. I've never known of Marquette to leave a game on the table before when they could have had a home date.

This would give us a breakdown of 17 home games, 10 away games, and 3 neutral site games. Not sure why they wouldn't want the 18th game at home from a financial perspective. Though I suppose, STHs pay the same whether there are 17 or 18 home games.

MU left a game on the table in 14-15, Wojo's first year. Only played 12 non con d1 games that season. 

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 14, 2016, 10:25:38 AMIn 2012-13, we played 30 because the Ohio State game on the Yorktown was cancelled and we didn't get a make-up game anywhere in the season.

Totally forgot about the Condensation Classic.

Unless it's a decent opponent, I'm fine with where things are at. The less crap games I have to sit through, the better.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on July 14, 2016, 10:28:14 AM
MU left a game on the table in 14-15, Wojo's first year. Only played 12 non con d1 games that season.

I believe your conclusion is incorrect.  In 14-15 they played in the 3 game Orlando Classic.  Each tournament (up to a maximum of 4 games) counts as a single game when calculating the total allowable non-cons.  This year we are playing a longer 4 game tourney.  So by definition one would be left on the table If I'm not mistaken. 

(And I could be.  ;D)

Quote from: jsglow on July 14, 2016, 10:36:30 AM
I believe your conclusion is incorrect.  In 14-15 they played in the 3 game Orlando Classic.  Each tournament (up to a maximum of 4 games) counts as a single game when calculating the total allowable non-cons.  This year we are playing a longer 4 game tourney.  So by definition one would be left on the table If I'm not mistaken. 

(And I could be.  ;D)

Gotcha, I thought it was just 13 was the limit for d1 non-con games.

Quote from: MUfan12 on July 14, 2016, 10:31:21 AM
Totally forgot about the Condensation Classic.

Unless it's a decent opponent, I'm fine with where things are at. The less crap games I have to sit through, the better.

And I even remember that some effort was made (perhaps modest) to make some phone calls to see if something could be lined up.  Obviously it wasn't a problem for fans that they couldn't or wouldn't pull the trigger given options presented, if any.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on July 14, 2016, 10:28:14 AM
MU left a game on the table in 14-15, Wojo's first year. Only played 12 non con d1 games that season.

EDIT: NM, jsglow already covered it :)

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on July 14, 2016, 10:40:42 AM
Gotcha, I thought it was just 13 was the limit for d1 non-con games.

The limit is actually 10, but one of those 10 can be an exempt tourney which can give teams anywhere from (I believe) 2-4 games.

Well...the limit isn't even exactly 10, it's dependent on the length of the conference season as well. But for our purposes, 9 games + 1 exempt tourney is how it works out.

I believe the rule is 27 games plus one multi game tourney that can be up to four.  So up to 31 total.

31 total minus 18 league games, means 9 "regular" non conference games, and up to 4 tourney games.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 14, 2016, 10:52:25 AM
The limit is actually 10, but one of those 10 can be an exempt tourney which can give teams anywhere from (I believe) 2-4 games.

Well...the limit isn't even exactly 10, it's dependent on the length of the conference season as well. But for our purposes, 9 games + 1 exempt tourney is how it works out.

Thanks for the clarity.

The point remains that it appears MU could have scheduled another game.

Quote from: mu03eng on July 14, 2016, 07:53:39 AM
Plus if you want to improve the RPI it needs to be by playing teams that will win games. I have zero confidence in UWM having success the next couple of years given the state of that program that would make them a coveted RPI opponent

That's what I've been thinking this entire conversation. They are going to SUCK next year. I'm talking like Sub 300 level bad potentially. And while I do like the Jordan hire, I'm not convinced that he will be able to overcome the barriers UWM will self impose and turn this team around anytime soon.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on July 14, 2016, 10:40:42 AM
Gotcha, I thought it was just 13 was the limit for d1 non-con games.

The limit is 27 games + one qualifying tourney w/a max of 4 = 31 OR
29 games w/no qualifying tourney

Getting to the 20 win mark is important for our program. I believe having 31 chances is better then 30.

This seems like the optimal year to do the 3:1 with UWM or UWGB . Do the road game this year because we are obviously not giving up a home game the way things are scheduled .

From a financial perspective, I don't understand why you would leave a game on the table. From an RPI perspective, no game is better than a game against a Grambling or a Chicago State.

If I had to guess, the last game was supposed to be the one against Utah. It fell apart, presumably because of scheduling issues, and they weren't left with enough time to find another quality opponent.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 14, 2016, 11:13:55 AM
Getting to the 20 win mark is important for our program. I believe having 31 chances is better then 30.

20 wins doesn't mean anything.

What's important for MU is consistently making the NCAA Tournament. Adding another lousy opponent on the home schedule doesn't get them any closer to that goal.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on July 14, 2016, 11:17:37 AM
From a financial perspective, I don't understand why you would leave a game on the table. From an RPI perspective, no game is better than a game against a Grambling or a Chicago State.

They get no marginal revenue from a season ticket perspective because they are sold on a base price.  Not to bring this argument up again, but if season ticket holders make up a significant majority of the attendance for a non-conference buy game, then you likely aren't forgoing much revenue.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on July 14, 2016, 11:17:37 AM
If I had to guess, the last game was supposed to be the one against Utah. It fell apart, presumably because of scheduling issues, and they weren't left with enough time to find another quality opponent.

With the conference season starting on December 28, I think it came down to timing.  They either had to schedule a game during finals week, schedule three games in like six days before Christmas, or schedule a non conference game versus a Stetson-like opponent during the conference season.  None of those are very appealing options.

I just looked back on previous schedules, and ever since joining the BE, Marquette has *always* scheduled a game between Christmas and the start of conference play.  (Almost all of these were buy games.  The only exceptions were the ill-fated series v. Vandy.)  They can't do that this year.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 14, 2016, 10:56:50 AM
I believe the rule is 27 games plus one multi game tourney that can be up to four.  So up to 31 total.

31 total minus 18 league games, means 9 "regular" non conference games, and up to 4 tourney games.

That's it :)

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on July 14, 2016, 11:10:41 AM
That's what I've been thinking this entire conversation. They are going to SUCK next year. I'm talking like Sub 300 level bad potentially. And while I do like the Jordan hire, I'm not convinced that he will be able to overcome the barriers UWM will self impose and turn this team around anytime soon.

Hard to say, I do like the newcomers.

Quote from: MUfan12 on July 14, 2016, 11:19:10 AM
20 wins doesn't mean anything.

What's important for MU is consistently making the NCAA Tournament. Adding another lousy opponent on the home schedule doesn't get them any closer to that goal.

I agree we want to make the tournament. Given our recent track record, that is not a given. At the very least we want to put up a 20 win season for PR reasons which is important to the overall goal.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 14, 2016, 12:39:33 PM
I agree we want to make the tournament. Given our recent track record, that is not a given. At the very least we want to put up a 20 win season for PR reasons which is important to the overall goal.

Marquette put up a 20 win season last year.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 14, 2016, 12:40:50 PM

Marquette put up a 20 win season last year.

WITHOUT THE NIT!

(Still can't believe we didn't get in the NIT).

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 14, 2016, 12:40:50 PM

Marquette put up a 20 win season last year.

It looks good on the mast head of MU Scoop. Would like to see us up that total.

On the schedule board Mike Broker on June 1st put this out..
Marquette needs one guarantee game to finalize its schedule - December 6, possibly could play on 7th.

Quote from: mupanther on July 14, 2016, 01:14:23 PM
On the schedule board Mike Broker on June 1st put this out..
Marquette needs one guarantee game to finalize its schedule - December 6, possibly could play on 7th.

That'd be Fresno State, I have to assume.

Quote from: mupanther on July 14, 2016, 01:14:23 PM
On the schedule board Mike Broker on June 1st put this out..
Marquette needs one guarantee game to finalize its schedule - December 6, possibly could play on 7th.

What is the schedule board?

Quote from: MUfan12 on July 14, 2016, 09:42:04 AM
Matchup with @BadgerMBB will cap busy week for #mubb. MU will then break for finals before last 2 non-league games.

Guessing those will be Dec. 17th or 18th and 21st or 22nd.

If I remember correctly, last year they had similar wording to that above , then they somehow came up with the Stetson game during the conference season.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 14, 2016, 11:30:17 AM
They get no marginal revenue from a season ticket perspective because they are sold on a base price.  Not to bring this argument up again, but if season ticket holders make up a significant majority of the attendance for a non-conference buy game, then you likely aren't forgoing much revenue.


With the conference season starting on December 28, I think it came down to timing.  They either had to schedule a game during finals week, schedule three games in like six days before Christmas, or schedule a non conference game versus a Stetson-like opponent during the conference season. None of those are very appealing options.

I just looked back on previous schedules, and ever since joining the BE, Marquette has *always* scheduled a game between Christmas and the start of conference play.  (Almost all of these were buy games.  The only exceptions were the ill-fated series v. Vandy.)  They can't do that this year.

I think you hit on it. Personally, I'm of the opinion that conference games before the 30th or 31st are a bad idea but I know, TV made 'em.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on July 14, 2016, 01:24:17 PM
What is the schedule board?

Basketball Travelers Schedule Board.
It's where schools put out adds, in who needs any type of game to fill it's schedule.

where does the speculation on Dec 28 conf opener come from?

i get not going up against CFB F4 on Sat Dec 31st, but moving to 12/28 seems too early.

At this point, I'm much happier with our schedule than in years past. It's not the trainwreck we've sometimes seen. A few thoughts with two games left to be announced:

High-Majors: Wisconsin, Georgia, and Michigan are all good bets for the tourney. Pitt also would be if we play them, if not SMU (like Vandy) would be a decent opponent. Five nice games there.

Quality Buy Game: Fresno State loses a lot but should still be a good name on the resume.

Decent Home Games: Howard will likely start 5 seniors and contend in the MEAC. They could be this season's Norfolk State. IUPUI should be decent (all the 2K home games were at least decent) as they should start 4 seniors and had a host of contributing underclassmen last year. Might drop off a bit, but the Summit is a decent league and usually everyone in the league gets to 10+ wins. Western Carolina is similar to IUPUI in that they lose some talent but play in a decent league and should get 10+ wins.

One Possible Dog: I'm kind of torn on Houston Baptist. Losing Anthony Odunsi, who was a stud for them, will be tough to replace, and they lose 3 senior starters. But they will likely start 3-4 seniors this year and if someone can emerge at the point, they could be better than I'm thinking. At a glance, this looks like the only possible sub-300 team.

If the last two games are at least middle-of-the-road buy games, teams that can win around 10-15 games, then I think a 9-3 non-con record and 19 total wins should be enough to get us into the NCAAs. This time last year, I was pretty pissed about the schedule. This year is definitely an improvement, and the kind of schedule that sets you up to at least feel like you will have a respectable chance to make the tourney if you can get to 18-21 wins.

Quote from: mupanther on July 14, 2016, 02:10:43 PM
Basketball Travelers Schedule Board.
It's were schools put out adds, in who needs any type of game to fill it's schedule.

Interesting. 

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 14, 2016, 02:47:09 PM
At this point, I'm much happier with our schedule than in years past. It's not the trainwreck we've sometimes seen. A few thoughts with two games left to be announced:

High-Majors: Wisconsin, Georgia, and Michigan are all good bets for the tourney. Pitt also would be if we play them, if not SMU (like Vandy) would be a decent opponent. Five nice games there.

Quality Buy Game: Fresno State loses a lot but should still be a good name on the resume.

Decent Home Games: Howard will likely start 5 seniors and contend in the MEAC. They could be this season's Norfolk State. IUPUI should be decent (all the 2K home games were at least decent) as they should start 4 seniors and had a host of contributing underclassmen last year. Might drop off a bit, but the Summit is a decent league and usually everyone in the league gets to 10+ wins. Western Carolina is similar to IUPUI in that they lose some talent but play in a decent league and should get 10+ wins.

One Possible Dog: I'm kind of torn on Houston Baptist. Losing Anthony Odunsi, who was a stud for them, will be tough to replace, and they lose 3 senior starters. But they will likely start 3-4 seniors this year and if someone can emerge at the point, they could be better than I'm thinking. At a glance, this looks like the only possible sub-300 team.

If the last two games are at least middle-of-the-road buy games, teams that can win around 10-15 games, then I think a 9-3 non-con record and 19 total wins should be enough to get us into the NCAAs. This time last year, I was pretty pissed about the schedule. This year is definitely an improvement, and the kind of schedule that sets you up to at least feel like you will have a respectable chance to make the tourney if you can get to 18-21 wins.

Until Illinois-Chicago and North Carolina A&T are announced the next two days....

Quote from: Carl Spackler on July 14, 2016, 02:19:42 PM
where does the speculation on Dec 28 conf opener come from?

i get not going up against CFB F4 on Sat Dec 31st, but moving to 12/28 seems too early.

Last year the Big East had their major kickoff on January 2, but they had games on Dec 30-31 as well on the Wednesday and Thursday before the Saturday tip-off. This year, the Wednesday and Thursday before the tip-off weekend would come on Dec 28-29.

Of course, the next question is when they want to play the tip-off games. Dec 31 is the college football playoff, Jan 1 is the last day of the NFL regular season. Do you go up against either of those, or push the tip-off to a weekday and have it on Monday, January 2?

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on July 14, 2016, 02:57:32 PM
Until Illinois-Chicago and North Carolina A&T are announced the next two days....

If the next two are dogs, so be it. You need some easy wins on the schedule. I can live with 2-3 teams that have single digit D1 wins. It'd be an upgrade over last year where we had 6 teams that had single-digit D1 wins.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 14, 2016, 03:13:24 PM
If the next two are dogs, so be it. You need some easy wins on the schedule. I can live with 2-3 teams that have single digit D1 wins. It'd be an upgrade over last year where we had 6 teams that had single-digit D1 wins.

Many here know way more than me but my sense is that we've already scheduled enough challenging games.  Now we just need to win our share of 'em.

Quote from: Carl Spackler on July 14, 2016, 02:19:42 PM
where does the speculation on Dec 28 conf opener come from?

On our season-ticket package we get in the mail.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 14, 2016, 02:47:09 PM
At this point, I'm much happier with our schedule than in years past. It's not the trainwreck we've sometimes seen. A few thoughts with two games left to be announced:

High-Majors: Wisconsin, Georgia, and Michigan are all good bets for the tourney. Pitt also would be if we play them, if not SMU (like Vandy) would be a decent opponent. Five nice games there.

I've got SMU, Michigan, and vandy in the tournament (barely). And Georgia out. Pitt I'm torn on. They have great talent but no pg. I just don't know who will run that offense. If they figure a pg out, they're a high seed. If they don't, they could be out of the tourney.

Unfortunately, I have the badgers in the final four.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 14, 2016, 05:34:08 AM
But everything about this is wrong. First, it's not the same cost. To get UWM, Marquette would have to give up a home game every four years. So you bring in an extra 500-1,000 people for that game versus another buy team but give up a home game that will sell at least 10,000 tickets? That's senseless. 10,000 > 3,000.

So if the cost is not the same, and fan interest is marginal, both of which we've established are pretty clearly the case, where's the incentive? The only reason to do it is to help UWM out. But based on past history, they can't sell their building out even when they do play us, so if the motivation is altruistic, it's also a flawed reason.

Further, the odds of playing on the road decrease your win chances significantly. Why risk a loss to Milwaukee when you could buy a comparable win with a team from further away?

Giving up a home game to get UWM on the schedule doesn't make dollars or sense.

My original comment was buying UWM once every four years and paying them as if they traveled. (Granted UWM won't due that, which I think is dumb). The person I quoted said MU would be stupid to pay UWM full price since they don't have to travel.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 14, 2016, 06:35:17 PM
My original comment was buying UWM once every four years and paying them as if they traveled. (Granted UWM won't due that, which I think is dumb). The person I quoted said MU would be stupid to pay UWM full price since they don't have to travel.

Which is true. UWM has the incentive to accept a lower price deal because they don't have the same costs. Marquette should not be overpaying.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 14, 2016, 06:35:17 PM
My original comment was buying UWM once every four years and paying them as if they traveled. (Granted UWM won't due that, which I think is dumb). The person I quoted said MU would be stupid to pay UWM full price since they don't have to travel.

If we could buy UWM, I'm sure we would. But that's just not going to happen. Aside from the Horizon having a dim view on their teams playing straight buy games as a policy, there is no way from a pride perspective they would allow Marquette to treat them as a low-major when UW-Madison is giving them home games.

I understand the sentiment, but it's just not in the realm of reality.

December 19th vs. St. Francis (PA)

13-17 with an RPI of 267 last year, per ESPN.

266 per CBS Sports  ;D

Ended the year on a 6 game losing streak

Quote from: mupanther on July 15, 2016, 09:31:51 AM
266 per CBS Sports  ;D

Ended the year on a 6 game losing streak

Lose their top 3 scorers.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on July 15, 2016, 09:35:47 AM
Lose their top 3 scorers.

Seems to be a trend

Past seasons for St. Francis (PA)
2014-15 16-16
2013-14 10-21
2012-13  5-24
2011-12  6-23
2010-11  9-20

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on July 14, 2016, 03:57:04 PM
I have the badgers in the final four.

Really?

St Francis (PA) had a season ending RPI of 266, but who cares? X2.

They had a Selection Sunday RPI of 263, but who cares?

Only 12 D-I victories last year, but here's some color on why their season went south...

http://www.nycbuckets.com/2016/07/injuries-especially-isaiah-blackmons-derailed-sfu-last-season/

At least the bad buy games this year feel like "could be worse, reason to be optimistic about their chances" whereas last year's buy games were just "this is an awful opponent".

If the last opponent is a team that could get 14-16 wins, I'll be happy with the schedule.

Quote from: Jay Bee on July 15, 2016, 10:24:35 AM
St Francis (PA) had a season ending RPI of 266, but who cares? X2.

They had a Selection Sunday RPI of 263, but who cares?

Only 12 D-I victories last year, but here's some color on why their season went south...

http://www.nycbuckets.com/2016/07/injuries-especially-isaiah-blackmons-derailed-sfu-last-season/

  Thanks, good to have some depth to the story.

Quote from: MU82 on July 15, 2016, 10:11:07 AM
Really?

Unfortunately. Four senior starters with final 4 experience. They lose nobody. They add Pritzl and Van Vilet off of redshirts. Plus, the top half of the NCAA was very senior heavy last year. Lots of teams taking a step back. Wisconsin will take a big step forward.

Quote from: RKMU123 on July 15, 2016, 09:29:08 AM
December 19th vs. St. Francis (PA)

13-17 with an RPI of 267 last year, per ESPN.

They will be a middle of the road NEC team. Shouldn't be too bad from an RPI perspective. Should get to double digit D1 victories.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on July 15, 2016, 09:35:47 AM
Lose their top 3 scorers.

And #4 blew his ACL in February.

How come we don't try and get a game with UWM?

Quote from: lucdadian32 on July 15, 2016, 01:22:22 PM
How come we don't try and get a game with UWM?

Why don't we try and bring back football?

Quote from: MUfan12 on July 15, 2016, 01:23:59 PM
Why don't we try and bring back football?

Why didn't we all invest in Apple before the Ipod came out?

Quote from: JakeBarnes on July 15, 2016, 01:30:46 PM
Why didn't we all invest in Apple before the Ipod came out?

Why don't we go back to Warriors?

Quote from: lucdadian32 on July 15, 2016, 01:22:22 PM
How come we don't try and get a game with UWM?

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/25/2529c449998a663fb8fe97764fa5007d83e2978f346fa5fc8fa2190b911a8d33.jpg)

Quote from: lucdadian32 on July 15, 2016, 01:22:22 PM
How come we don't try and get a game with UWM?

Because MUScoop has spoken again and again on the UWM topic and decided that it is not in MU's best interest, even less in our interest if UWM demands a home game.  Just like all things MU Basketball, the AD and Administration keep abreast of the MUScoop brain trust and act accordingly.  MUScoop has spoken, topic closed.  Not playing UWM.

St. Francis (PA) is a decent add. Not great, not terrible. Probably going to be in the 200-300 range of RPI. They lose 3 senior starters, but will likely start at least three seniors as well as a decent sophomore in Josh Nebo. Coach Rob Krimmel had increased their win total each year and was on pace to do the same last year before that 6-game losing streak. No problems with this addition.

Quote from: lucdadian32 on July 15, 2016, 01:22:22 PM
How come we don't try and get a game with UWM?

We should.

Quote from: MUfan12 on July 15, 2016, 01:23:59 PM
Why don't we try and bring back football?

Never should have given it up.

Quote from: JakeBarnes on July 15, 2016, 01:30:46 PM
Why didn't we all invest in Apple before the Ipod came out?

I did.

So one of the guys I'm most interested to see next year...St. Francis senior guard Georgios Angelou. The Greek sharpshooter likes to shoot the long ball. I mean...REALLY likes to shoot the long ball. Last year, he took 60 shots on the season, 54 beyond the arc (48.1% accuracy). For his career, 71 of his 79 total shot attempts are threes. His eFG% last year was a positively silly 70.0%. Also was a perfect 14/14 at the line (guess you don't get fouled much when you pretty much never go inside). He's fifth in returning minutes, so I'd think he will play even more next year and be able to fire up more shots from long-range.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 15, 2016, 10:21:54 PM
So one of the guys I'm most interested to see next year...St. Francis senior guard Georgios Angelou. The Greek sharpshooter likes to shoot the long ball. I mean...REALLY likes to shoot the long ball. Last year, he took 60 shots on the season, 54 beyond the arc (48.1% accuracy). For his career, 71 of his 79 total shot attempts are threes. His eFG% last year was a positively silly 70.0%. Also was a perfect 14/14 at the line (guess you don't get fouled much when you pretty much never go inside). He's fifth in returning minutes, so I'd think he will play even more next year and be able to fire up more shots from long-range.

"REALLY likes to shoot the long ball" probably s/b "REALLY prefers to shoot the long ball in those rare instances when he shoots"... only once in his career has he made more than two 3-pointers in a game, a''ina? That %Shots is tiny.

Quote from: Jay Bee on July 16, 2016, 08:58:25 AM
"REALLY likes to shoot the long ball" probably s/b "REALLY prefers to shoot the long ball in those rare instances when he shoots"... only once in his career has he made more than two 3-pointers in a game, a''ina? That %Shots is tiny.

Very true, but that disparity is just insane. I wonder how many guys took as many shots and around 90% beyond the arc.

Final opponent was just announced, SIU-Edwardsville on December 21st. Former Marquette player Jon Harris is the coach. This is probably the worst team on the slate, but you get the alumni connection and there's always a dog or two on every schedule. However...there is upside to this as well. They play in the Ohio Valley, which is a solid conference, and Harris scheduled tougher than his predecessor ever did, so the opponent's opponents factor should be good for us from this game. Further, they return their 4 of their top 6 players in terms of minutes and top 2 scorers. They do lose PG CJ Carr to transfer, but have a senior who missed most of the season who can step in and five incoming freshmen. I expect they'll be better in Harris' second season.

All in all, a good schedule. I'll have a lot more thoughts on the specifics, but we shouldn't have more than 2-3 teams that are single-digit wins, which means not many opponents that really drag down the RPI. Good quality at the top, but not an opponent on the schedule that isn't beatable. If we go 9-3 against this schedule and win 19 total games, we should have a good chance at making the tournament.

Wednesday, Dec 21st
SIU-EDWARDSVILLE

Coach by Jon Harris

I see Brew beat me to it. Hard to tell on my phone.  ;D

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 16, 2016, 10:09:08 AM
Very true, but that disparity is just insane. I wonder how many guys took as many shots and around 90% beyond the arc.[\quote]

Seems almost impossible, but I think Max Hooper of Oakland shot more than 250 times last year and NEVER inside the 3-point line

It does seem almost impossible, but you're right. 117/257 and all his attempts were from outside the arc. Top-10 in the country in offensive efficiency and eFG%, as well as 21st in 3PFG%. Wow. Just bizarrely amazing.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 16, 2016, 10:40:25 AM
It does seem almost impossible, but you're right. 117/257 and all his attempts were from outside the arc. Top-10 in the country in offensive efficiency and eFG%, as well as 21st in 3PFG%. Wow. Just bizarrely amazing.

Just looked up his career #'s vs. D-I opponents.. 97.7% of his attempts were 3FGA's.

Knowing it's true, it's still difficult to believe. 6'6", too.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 16, 2016, 10:09:08 AM
Very true, but that disparity is just insane. I wonder how many guys took as many shots and around 90% beyond the arc.

In his senior year, Tim Jarmusz took 105 FGA.  89 of them were 3PA.

When you're the coach watching that guy drain a three against you, the thought has to be "HOW THE HELL DID YOU IDIOTS LEAVE HIM OPEN OUT THERE? I TOLD YOU HE ONLY SHOOTS THREES!!!!!"

Quote from: Coleman on March 07, 2016, 03:55:21 PMIf the past is any indication, probably 6 or 7 sub-300 RPI teams that prevent us from making the Dance again.

Using KenPom's end-of-season rankings, here's how the 2016-17 schedule stacks up against last year's:

#1 to #50
2016-17: 3 teams (Pitt/SMU, Vandy, UW)
2015-16: 2 teams (Iowa, UW)

#51 to #100
2016-17: 2 teams (Georgia, Michigan)
2015-16: 1 team (LSU)

#101 - #150
2016-17: 1 team (Fresno St.)
2015-16: 2 teams (ASU, Belmont)

#151- #200
2016-17: 1 team (W. Carolina)
2015-16: None

#201 - #250
2016-17: 1 team (IUPUI)
2015-16: 2 teams (IUPUI, Jackson St.)

#251 - #300
2016-17: 2 teams (Houston Baptist, St. Francis)
2015-16: 2 teams (San Jose St., Stetson)

#301 - #350
2016-17: 2 teams (Howard, SIU-Edwardsville)
2015-16: 4 teams (Grambling St., Maine, Chicago St., Presbyterian)

This obviously doesn't take into account players lost or added. But the eye test suggests we'll have a stronger schedule — potentially including 5 top 100 teams (vs. 3 last season) and just 5 rated 200 or worse (vs. 8 a year ago).

Quote from: Marcus92 on July 16, 2016, 05:12:26 PM
Using KenPom's end-of-season rankings, here's how the 2016-17 schedule stacks up against last year's:

#1 to #50
2016-17: 3 teams (Pitt/SMU, Vandy, UW)
2015-16: 2 teams (Iowa, UW)

This is all fine and good until someone ax'es, "what is the relevance?"

SMU - new coach? Yep.
Pitt - new coach? Uhuh... via Vandy
Vandy - new coach? Oh yeah. Jones, Baldwin to NBA? Yeah...

I think the good thing is that we don't have any many certified, no doubt stinkers on the schedule. There are some teams that could certainly take an ugly step backwards in 2016-17 and that's scary... but, last year there was a hefty group of sure-shot bottom of the barrel teams that all but guaranteed an unfavorable NC sked from an RPI (diff than KenPom, of course, but also KenPom) perspective.

Quote from: Jay Bee on July 16, 2016, 05:25:05 PMThis is all fine and good until someone ax'es, "what is the relevance?"

SMU - new coach? Yep.
Pitt - new coach? Uhuh... via Vandy
Vandy - new coach? Oh yeah. Jones, Baldwin to NBA? Yeah...

I think the good thing is that we don't have any many certified, no doubt stinkers on the schedule. There are some teams that could certainly take an ugly step backwards in 2016-17 and that's scary... but, last year there was a hefty group of sure-shot bottom of the barrel teams that all but guaranteed an unfavorable NC sked from an RPI (diff than KenPom, of course, but also KenPom) perspective.

Agreed that this is of limited use — beyond looking at the schedule from a very broad perspective. But even replacing a couple sub-300 teams with teams in the 100-200 range could make a huge difference in our chances to make the NCAA tournament. Then, of course, we need to win a few against good opponents and avoid losing to the poor teams.

Quote from: Marcus92 on July 16, 2016, 05:12:26 PM
Using KenPom's end-of-season rankings, here's how the 2016-17 schedule stacks up against last year's:

#1 to #50
2016-17: 3 teams (Pitt/SMU, Vandy, UW)
2015-16: 2 teams (Iowa, UW)

#51 to #100
2016-17: 2 teams (Georgia, Michigan)
2015-16: 1 team (LSU)

#101 - #150
2016-17: 1 team (Fresno St.)
2015-16: 2 teams (ASU, Belmont)

#151- #200
2016-17: 1 team (W. Carolina)
2015-16: None

#201 - #250
2016-17: 1 team (IUPUI)
2015-16: 2 teams (IUPUI, Jackson St.)

#251 - #300
2016-17: 2 teams (Houston Baptist, St. Francis)
2015-16: 2 teams (San Jose St., Stetson)

#301 - #350
2016-17: 2 teams (Howard, SIU-Edwardsville)
2015-16: 4 teams (Grambling St., Maine, Chicago St., Presbyterian)

This obviously doesn't take into account players lost or added. But the eye test suggests we'll have a stronger schedule — potentially including 5 top 100 teams (vs. 3 last season) and just 5 rated 200 or worse (vs. 8 a year ago).

(http://hermio.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/02win.jpg)
There's one thing I want you to do for me
WIN

Strength of schedule is one thing. Winning is another. Here's a look at how our non-conference season could play out.

#1 to #50
2016-17: 3 teams (Pitt/SMU, Vandy, UW)
2015-16: 2 teams (Iowa, UW)

#51 to #100
2016-17: 2 teams (Georgia, Michigan)
2015-16: 1 team (LSU)

We went 2-1 against top 100 teams in non-conference play a year ago. Can we win 3 out of 5 here? That would be a great result in my book. My guess is that UW, Michigan and on the road at Georgia will be the toughest games (in that order). As Jay Bee pointed out, Pitt, SMU and Vandy have new coaches which should work in our favor.

#101 - #150
2016-17: 1 team (Fresno St.)
2015-16: 2 teams (ASU, Belmont)

#151- #200
2016-17: 1 team (W. Carolina)
2015-16: None

Belmont was a decent team a year ago, but losing to them in the opener was a crusher. We need wins against both Fresno St. and Western Carolina.

#201 - #250
2016-17: 1 team (IUPUI)
2015-16: 2 teams (IUPUI, Jackson St.)

#251 - #300
2016-17: 2 teams (Houston Baptist, St. Francis)
2015-16: 2 teams (San Jose St., Stetson)

#301 - #350
2016-17: 2 teams (Howard, SIU-Edwardsville)
2015-16: 4 teams (Grambling St., Maine, Chicago St., Presbyterian)

We didn't lose any games last year to teams ranked below 200 — although IUPUI took us to overtime and Stetson was closer than expected. Anything less than a clean sweep could bode trouble.

Without knowing much about how good the top of the schedule will be, I hope we come out of the gate strong at 10-2. Overly optimistic? We'll see.

@Fieldof68Freak From Minnesota Message Board

29 of the 75 Power 6 programs have complete non-conference schedules.

Overall Schedule Rankings
1 Kansas (100.75) -- @ #6 Kentucky
2 Xavier (107.09) -- @ #28 Baylor
3 Pitt (131.666) -- vs. #17 SMU
4 Arizona State (138.181) -- vs. #6 Kentucky
5 Arizona (139.583) -- vs. #5 Michigan State
6 Butler (142.727) -- vs. #15 Indiana
7 Duke (146.75) -- vs. #4 Kansas
8 Wake Forest (147.4) -- @ #11 Xavier
9 Baylor (150.272) -- #11 Xavier
10 Ole Miss (154.636) -- #28 Baylor
11 UCLA (156.181) -- @ #6 Kentucky
12 Purdue (158.916) -- #1 Villanova
13 Nebraska (161.3) -- @ #4 Kansas
14 Ohio State (166.538) -- @ #3 Virginia
15 Iowa (167.833) -- vs. #3 Virginia
16 Oklahoma (171.5) -- vs. #8 Wichita State
17 Washington (172.909) -- @ #18 Gonzaga
18 Marquette (173.636) -- vs. #31 Vanderbilt
19 Colorado (180) -- #11 Xavier
20 Creighton (184.09) -- #33 Wisconsin
21 Maryland (187.25) -- #43 Pitt
22 Iowa State (191.6) -- @ #23 Iowa
23 Providence (199.833) -- vs. #72 Memphis
24 Mississippi State (203.1) -- #67 Oregon State
25 Northwestern (205) -- @ #32 Butler
26 Kansas State (213.333) -- @ #115 Tennessee
27 Washington State (231) -- vs. #37 Creighton
28 Utah (238.1) -- @ #11 Xavier
29 DePaul (242.583) -- @ #78 Northwestern

Home Schedule Rankings
1 Xavier (124.428) -- #39 Utah
2 Kansas (135.666) -- #96 Long Beach State
3 Pitt (153.625) -- #42 Yale
4 Ole Miss (163.555) -- #28 Baylor
5 Baylor (165) -- #11 Xavier
6 Arizona (172) -- #75 UC-Irvine
7 Wake Forest (172) -- #92 LSU
8 UCLA (177.25) -- #58 Michigan
9 Duke (182.714) -- #5 Michigan State
10 Washington (182.714) -- #42 Yale
11 Butler (187) -- #34 Cincinnati
12 Ohio State (188.6) -- #26 Connecticut
13 Mississippi State (191.25) -- #67 Oregon State
14 Arizona State (198.285) -- #37 Creighton
15 Colorado (200.375) -- #11 Xavier
16 Creighton (202.375) -- #33 Wisconsin
17 Purdue (202.5) -- #1 Villanova
18 Oklahoma (207) -- #41 Florida
19 Maryland (210.777) -- #43 Pitt
20 Iowa (212.222) -- #16 Iowa State
21 Nebraska (214.571) -- #37 Creighton
22 Marquette (218.875) -- #33 Wisconsin
23 Providence (222) -- #82 Rhode Island
24 Kansas State (229) -- #119 Green Bay
25 Iowa State (235.166) -- #34 Cincinnati
26 Northwestern (259.222) -- #125 Wake Forest
27 Washington State (266.714) -- #212 Idaho
28 Utah (271.875) -- #32 Butler
29 DePaul (286.333) -- #117 Milwaukee

NCAA Qualifiers/*Postseason Champions on Schedule
Xavier (6): Baylor, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Colorado, Northern Iowa, Utah
Baylor (5): Florida Gulf Coast, Oregon, Southern, VCU, Xavier
Iowa (5): Iowa State, Northern Iowa, Notre Dame, Seton Hall, Virginia
Ohio State (5): Connecticut, Fairleigh Dickinson, North Carolina-Asheville, Providence, Virginia
Arizona (4): Bakersfield, Gonzaga, Michigan State, Texas A&M
Butler (4): Cincinnati, Indiana, Utah, Vanderbilt
Kansas (4): Duke, Indiana, Kentucky, North Carolina-Asheville
Northwestern (4): Butler, Colorado/Notre Dame, Dayton, Texas
Arizona State (3): Kentucky, Northern Iowa, Purdue
Iowa State (3): Cincinnati, Iowa, Vanderbilt
Marquette (3): Michigan, Vanderbilt, Wisconsin
Nebraska (3): Dayton, Kansas, Southern
Pitt (3): Buffalo, Maryland, Yale
Washington (3): Gonzaga, *Nevada, Yale
Colorado (2): Notre Dame, Xavier
Creighton (2): Buffalo, Wisconsin
Duke (2): Kansas, Michigan State
Kansas State (2): Green Bay, Hampton
Maryland (2): Pitt, Stony Brook
Oklahoma (2): Wichita State, Wisconsin
Ole Miss (2): Baylor, Middle Tennessee
Purdue (2): Notre Dame, *Villanova
UCLA (2): Kentucky, Michigan
Utah (2): Butler, Xavier
DePaul (1): Temple
Mississippi State (1): Oregon State
Wake Forest (1): Xavier
Providence (0)
Washington State (0)

^^^ if only last year's results impacted RPI or anything else......

Nice work Phoenixphan.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 16, 2016, 12:07:07 PM
When you're the coach watching that guy drain a three against you, the thought has to be "HOW THE HELL DID YOU IDIOTS LEAVE HIM OPEN OUT THERE? I TOLD YOU HE ONLY SHOOTS THREES!!!!!"

Right, it's like a shift in baseball, just over commit by sticking on him beyond the arc and if he scores an easy lay-up, make him do it again and again...then adjust.

Quote from: Jay Bee on July 18, 2016, 08:43:44 AM^^^ if only last year's results impacted RPI or anything else......

Obviously, last year's results don't impact this season's RPI. But until the season actually begins, they're one of the best indicators of schedule strength we have.

Look at Ken Pomeroy's season-end rankings for Marquette over the past 15 years. Our average ranking was 46.6 — meaning that, on average, we've been a top 50 program. MU finished in the top 50 in 10 out of 15 seasons. We were still top 100 (76th, 93rd and 95th) in 3 others, just missing the top 100 (106th and 110th) in 2.

Now compare that to Chicago State, for example. Their average ranking: 286.0. They've finished 250th or worse in 9 out of the past 15 seasons — including the past 7 years. Since 2001-02, Pomeroy hasn't ranked Chicago St. higher than 200th.

My point is, if a team finished top 50 or 300th a year ago, it's reasonable to project they'll be similarly competitive this year — in the absence of any other information, of course. Even when we finished dead last in the Big East two seasons ago, we still ranked in the top third of all Division I teams. And even when Chicago St. had its best season of the millennium, it didn't come close to being considered for postseason play.

Granted, it's a crude measure. But that doesn't make it useless.

Quote from: Marcus92 on July 18, 2016, 11:58:00 AM
Obviously, last year's results don't impact this season's RPI. But until the season actually begins, they're one of the best indicators of schedule strength we have.

Look at Ken Pomeroy's season-end rankings for Marquette over the past 15 years. Our average ranking was 46.6 — meaning that, on average, we've been a top 50 program. MU finished in the top 50 in 10 out of 15 seasons. We were still top 100 (76th, 93rd and 95th) in 3 others, just missing the top 100 (106th and 110th) in 2.

Now compare that to Chicago State, for example. Their average ranking: 286.0. They've finished 250th or worse in 9 out of the past 15 seasons — including the past 7 years. Since 2001-02, Pomeroy hasn't ranked Chicago St. higher than 200th.

My point is, if a team finished top 50 or 300th a year ago, it's reasonable to project they'll be similarly competitive this year — in the absence of any other information, of course. Even when we finished dead last in the Big East two seasons ago, we still ranked in the top third of all Division I teams. And even when Chicago St. had its best season of the millennium, it didn't come close to being considered for postseason play.

Granted, it's a crude measure. But that doesn't make it useless.

It is, to a point. Honestly, while I won't disagree that to date this is probably the best way to look at this, I think it's a terrible way to look at it. Look at a team like Norfolk State years ago, or any other team that "comes from nowhere". Thing is, these teams don't come from nowhere. It's just a matter of identifying what qualities will lead to a breakout year. For Norfolk State, it was an experienced team led by an absolute beast in senior and future NBA player Kyle O'Quinn. This year, it could be Howard, who has the nation's leading scorer coming back, a key member returning from injury, and returns most of their team. By the same token, who would have seen us falling from being a regular top-50, tournament lock to three seasons of missing the dance and ratings around 100?

There have to be better ways to analyze, but no one has put it in a nice, compact package for the public yet. Basketball is far too stats oriented to not be at least a bit more predictable than last year's (or the last 5-10 years) numbers.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 18, 2016, 12:38:40 PM
It is, to a point. Honestly, while I won't disagree that to date this is probably the best way to look at this, I think it's a terrible way to look at it. Look at a team like Norfolk State years ago, or any other team that "comes from nowhere". Thing is, these teams don't come from nowhere. It's just a matter of identifying what qualities will lead to a breakout year. For Norfolk State, it was an experienced team led by an absolute beast in senior and future NBA player Kyle O'Quinn. This year, it could be Howard, who has the nation's leading scorer coming back, a key member returning from injury, and returns most of their team. By the same token, who would have seen us falling from being a regular top-50, tournament lock to three seasons of missing the dance and ratings around 100?

There have to be better ways to analyze, but no one has put it in a nice, compact package for the public yet. Basketball is far too stats oriented to not be at least a bit more predictable than last year's (or the last 5-10 years) numbers.

Of course, to analyze who might be better RPI wise from the previous year and match it up in terms of availability of the school, the BC, etc. is probably a little too much to ask.

The only grievance I have with the schedule is we have 30 games and not 31. I would prefer we have more chances to get to the 20 win mark.  I think we need to win at least 3 out of the 5 quality opponent games and then win all the rest. That would put us 10-2 going into conference play.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 18, 2016, 12:44:03 PM

Of course, to analyze who might be better RPI wise from the previous year and match it up in terms of availability of the school, the BC, etc. is probably a little too much to ask.

Oh, it's not too much to ask. There's work being done by a number of people. That info just doesn't get provided to the public.  ;)

Quote from: Jay Bee on July 18, 2016, 01:11:23 PM

Oh, it's not too much to ask. There's work being done by a number of people. That info just doesn't get provided to the public.  ;)

Ah OK.  Got it.

Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on July 18, 2016, 01:10:37 PM
The only grievance I have with the schedule is we have 30 games and not 31. I would prefer we have more chances to get to the 20 win mark.  I think we need to win at least 3 out of the 5 quality opponent games and then win all the rest. That would put us 10-2 going into conference play.

Really depends on what that 31st game would have been. My guess is that between BC availability, rational scheduling from a rest standpoint, and availability of other teams the 31st would have been a 300+ team. Better to not play them then risk getting a team that won't win much and drag down the RPI.

20 wins isn't the magic number it once was.

Quote from: mu03eng on July 18, 2016, 02:16:04 PM
Really depends on what that 31st game would have been. My guess is that between BC availability, rational scheduling from a rest standpoint, and availability of other teams the 31st would have been a 300+ team. Better to not play them then risk getting a team that won't win much and drag down the RPI.

20 wins isn't the magic number it once was.

Because of the conference season starting early on December 28, the only two choices were scheduling a game during Finals week or scheduling a buy-game in the middle of conference season.  The Stetson game was dreadful.  Giving the guys a week off is much better than playing some doormat on a Tuesday in January.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 18, 2016, 02:22:52 PM

Because of the conference season starting early on December 28, the only two choices were scheduling a game during Finals week or scheduling a buy-game in the middle of conference season.  The Stetson game was dreadful.  Giving the guys a week off is much better than playing some doormat on a Tuesday in January.

Jan/February game could help real up a losing streak, haiiiina??