If the past is any indication, probably 6 or 7 sub-300 RPI teams that prevent us from making the Dance again.
If the past is any indication, probably 6 or 7 sub-300 RPI teams that prevent us from making the Dance again.
The full field for the 2K Sports Classic was announced today.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/371268071.html
With no home-and-home paybacks, we don't know any of our high-majors, but here's what we can assume as of right now:
.
Minimum 1-1 and maybe 2-0 depending on wheter we draw Pitt or not.
- Wisconsin (H) We know this one for sure. Win. Wisconsin will be in a major rebuild. And, we're at home. Could be a slaughter if Henry comes back!
- Unnamed Big 10 Team (A) Not etched in stone that we'll be in the Gavitt Games, but seems likely.Assuming we're power matched, this probably would be Ohio State or Northwestern given that Michigan is in the 2K classic. Hopefully a win
- Two of Eastern Michigan, IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, and Howard (H) These will be at the BC as part of the 2K Classic.Two more wins. Sub 300 games., Better be body parts strewn about the Bradley Center.
- Two of Michigan, Pittsburgh, and SMU (N) These will be in NYC as part of the 2K Classic.
Result would reasonably 5-1 to 6-0 in these first games.
Minimum 1-1 and maybe 2-0 depending on wheter we draw Pitt or not.
- Wisconsin (H) We know this one for sure. Win. Wisconsin will be in a major rebuild. And, we're at home. Could be a slaughter if Henry comes back!
- Unnamed Big 10 Team (A) Not etched in stone that we'll be in the Gavitt Games, but seems likely.Assuming we're power matched, this probably would be Ohio State or Northwestern given that Michigan is in the 2K classic. Hopefully a win
- Two of Eastern Michigan, IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, and Howard (H) These will be at the BC as part of the 2K Classic.Two more wins. Sub 300 games., Better be body parts strewn about the Bradley Center.
- Two of Michigan, Pittsburgh, and SMU (N) These will be in NYC as part of the 2K Classic.
Result would reasonably 5-1 to 6-0 in these first games.
Hearing that Hayes is probably gone but they return everyone else
If the past is any indication, probably 6 or 7 sub-300 RPI teams that prevent us from making the Dance again.
Minimum 1-1 and maybe 2-0 depending on wheter we draw Pitt or not.
- Wisconsin (H) We know this one for sure. Win. Wisconsin will be in a major rebuild. And, we're at home. Could be a slaughter if Henry comes back!
- Unnamed Big 10 Team (A) Not etched in stone that we'll be in the Gavitt Games, but seems likely.Assuming we're power matched, this probably would be Ohio State or Northwestern given that Michigan is in the 2K classic. Hopefully a win
- Two of Eastern Michigan, IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, and Howard (H) These will be at the BC as part of the 2K Classic.Two more wins. Sub 300 games., Better be body parts strewn about the Bradley Center.
- Two of Michigan, Pittsburgh, and SMU (N) These will be in NYC as part of the 2K Classic.
Result would reasonably 5-1 to 6-0 in these first games.
Why is it silly? He's projected anywhere from 25 to 40. That won't improve when he's a year older.
Where does DraftExpress & Chad Ford have him? I'm just curious, usually the top 2 sources
Where does DraftExpress & Chad Ford have him? I'm just curious, usually the top 2 sources
FIFY
The Hayes to the NBA is just silly. Koenig/Hayes may be the best senior duo in the NCAA's.
The full field for the 2K Sports Classic was announced today.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/371268071.html
With no home-and-home paybacks, we don't know any of our high-majors, but here's what we can assume as of right now:
.
- Wisconsin (H) We know this one for sure.
- Unnamed Big 10 Team (A) Not etched in stone that we'll be in the Gavitt Games, but seems likely.
- Two of Eastern Michigan, IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, and Howard (H) These will be at the BC as part of the 2K Classic.
- Two of Michigan, Pittsburgh, and SMU (N) These will be in NYC as part of the 2K Classic.
Like to see the rest filled up with lower tier MAC, Horizon, and Missouri Valley style cupcakes
I would argue not dancing. Between tournament share value to the league, exposure, and increased donations, I have to think you're always better off dancing.
The Hayes to the NBA is just silly. Koenig/Hayes may be the best senior duo in the NCAA's.
Disagree. Hayes pays too flat footed. He's not a good slash err r/ball handler and can't jump. Not NBA quality at all.
He's 6'8, can defend 2-4, has a fantastic mid range game and a decent 3 point shot. He's going to have a long career in the NBA.
Hayes.. second rounder, hopeful to get run, ai''nal?
6'8", no shooty, no reboundy
Without access to stats, I would venture a guess that he has one of the best mid range games in the country. He hit 40% of three pointers last year, though he has struggled this year.
Pitt will be tough without Henry.
Artis and Young are both back next year
I hope we didn't add Utah simply because we aren't getting a Gavitt Games game.
Two of Eastern Michigan, IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, and Howard (H) These will be at the BC as part of the 2K Classic.
Why is it silly? He's projected anywhere from 25 to 40. That won't improve when he's a year older.
The Hayes to the NBA is just silly. Koenig/Hayes may be the best senior duo in the NCAA's.
Both the Horizon and MVC have informal policies that discourage their teams from doing straight buy games. We'd probably have to do a 2 or 3 for one, which means we won't be scheduling them.I think this schedule comes close to the one that Buzz scheduled in his last year. It was a little bit too hard and we ended up in the toilet.
I'd like to see two more high majors added to this, preferably home and homes. I'd like mid level teams from the ACC and SEC to get some ESPN exposure.
That would get you to 14 home games, 2 neutral site, and 11 road games. With the four remaining, the ideal would be three buy games and a neutral site game. 17 plus 1 exhibition is plenty of home games, and 7 high majors on the non-con would insure a strong enough schedule.
I think this schedule comes close to the one that Buzz scheduled in his last year. It was a little bit too hard and we ended up in the toilet.
I don't mind doing a 2 or 3 for 1 with a lower tier Horizon or MVC. We should be able to win the away game.
Worst thing that could happen to the program is to go 8-5 in OOC because we scheduled a bit too hard. We need to always be at the 10 win or above level we can get there with better ranked cupcakes. We still have Wisconsin, Gavitt, A tournament and One home and home likely so it is not like we are totally weak on the schedule.
I think this schedule comes close to the one that Buzz scheduled in his last year. It was a little bit too hard and we ended up in the toilet.
I don't mind doing a 2 or 3 for 1 with a lower tier Horizon or MVC. We should be able to win the away game.
Worst thing that could happen to the program is to go 8-5 in OOC because we scheduled a bit too hard. We need to always be at the 10 win or above level we can get there with better ranked cupcakes. We still have Wisconsin, Gavitt, A tournament and One home and home likely so it is not like we are totally weak on the schedule.
Everyone is laughing at Hayes to the NBA but he's projected to get drafted and even uwbadgers.com released an article that mentioned he was considering options. It's a definite possibility.
If he can get drafted, he should go now. He is not going to improve his draft stock at this point. With a deeper draft next year, if he stays he goes undrafted.
If he can get drafted, he should go now. He is not going to improve his draft stock at this point. With a deeper draft next year, if he stays he goes undrafted.
Of course Nigel Hayes could improve his draft status if he returns. Kaminsky did. Heild did. Why can't Hayes?
Hayes has been discussed but this is hilarious. Koenig? He of 13 pts and 2 assists? Also shooting under 40%? He'll be a solid player as a senior but I would be surprised if he is even 2nd team all B10.
Well, if you look at Hield's stats, you could argue that he did regress from sophomore to junior year. Both his FG% and 3FG% decreased by about 30 percentage points even though his ppg increased. (No idea about advanced stats.)
Clearly that wasn't as bad as Hayes, who decreased by 100+ percentage points in both categories.
But if I were Hayes I would come back. A second round pick is something, but if he cant perform he's going to be cut. He can improve (and I think he will) if he returns. Very unlike the Dekker or the Hellenson situation where they are guaranteed first round money.
Seriously JB.
Everytime I mention stats it's like a bat signal for you to add more context. Thanks.
But yeah you make a good point. Hayes would almost have to improve.
We literally just spent the entire year about complaining about a ridiculously weak schedule and now we're gonna start complaining about Utah being too tough? Can't have it both ways, I'm a fan of the home and home.I have been pretty consistent on my view of this. Keep the cupcakes but schedule better ranked cupcakes. Get 150-200 RPI versus 300-350. The good games were not the problem for us. We still have plenty of good games, between the Badger game, The Gavitt Game and the Quality teams in the Thanksgiving tournament we have enough tough games. Utah is fine , I am just pointing out that on first blush this may be a very challenging schedule. We need to be prepared for the potentially of a mediocre OOC result with potentially a higher RPI . In that scenario we may need 12 conference wins to get into the dance.
I have been pretty consistent on my view of this. Keep the cupcakes but schedule better ranked cupcakes. Get 150-200 RPI versus 300-350. The good games were not the problem for us. We still have plenty of good games, between the Badger game, The Gavitt Game and the Quality teams in the Thanksgiving tournament we have enough tough games. Utah is fine , I am just pointing out that on first blush this may be a very challenging schedule. We need to be prepared for the potentially of a mediocre OOC result with potentially a higher RPI . In that scenario we may need 12 conference wins to get into the dance.
Agreed; and we're saying the same thing in essence, but I just clarify it by I want the easy opponents to be ones who will win games in conference and/or otherwise gather a fair amount of D-I victories... 200 RPI vs. 300 RPI isn't always the best answer in that regard.Teams like Central Michigan or Toledo are the ones I would like to see. Beatable but have some substance on paper. Milwaukee and Green Bay during the time the kids are out of school. Good for attendance as well. Michigan State readily schedules their cup cake opponents like this.
Well, if you look at Hield's stats, you could argue that he did regress from sophomore to junior year. Both his FG% and 3FG% decreased by about 30 percentage points even though his ppg increased. (No idea about advanced stats.)'
Clearly that wasn't as bad as Hayes, who decreased by 100+ percentage points in both categories.
But if I were Hayes I would come back. A second round pick is something, but if he cant perform he's going to be cut. He can improve (and I think he will) if he returns. Very unlike the Dekker or the Hellenson situation where they are guaranteed first round money.
Teams like Central Michigan or Toledo are the ones I would like to see. Beatable but have some substance on paper. Milwaukee and Green Bay during the time the kids are out of school. Good for attendance as well. Michigan State readily schedules their cup cake opponents like this.
OOC schedule should be based on two principles: preparation for Big East play and do no harm to tournament resume.I agree with first part of your analysis.
Based on that you need 2-3 "marquee" games, 6-8 likely winnable games against 140-260 RPI teams, and at worst 1 or 2 260+ RPI teams.
Side note, there is less than zero reason to ever schedule UWM. I don't care if they give us a 10-1 deal where they pay us, we should never schedule them again. Zero upside, all downside and quite frankly that program is a raging dumpster fire, why give them ANY opportunity to make it better. Lastly, improved attendance is crap....they brought barely 2000 fans to our last match-up.
MU v. Vanderbilt in the 2016 Veterans Classic at the US Naval Academy. Friday, November 11, 2016.
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/719556877273710593
Dang, a game against Vandy and a game against Utah. Add that to the Gavitt Games (assuming we get one), Bucky, and the NYC tourney and you've got yourself a nice crop of non-con games. Let's hope the cupcakes are too high in fat.
Given the timing, I don't see how we can possibly be involved in the Gavitt games this year.
*Edit: I suspect we were left off the Gavitt schedule this year and as such added the Veterans game for this year
Given the timing, I don't see how we can possibly be involved in the Gavitt games this year.
*Edit: I suspect we were left off the Gavitt schedule this year and as such added the Veterans game for this year
Which is fine. With the game against UW and the possibility of Michigan in the tourney, that'd already give us two games against the Big 10. I like this approach of playing a SEC, a P12, a B10, with the possibility of additional games against ACC/AAC/another Big 10. Covers all of the major basketball conferences with the exception of B12.
Marquette not involved in Gavitt games per Matty V.
Officially? Link?
Bummer no Gavitt game. Really want a showdown with Minny.
But the Vandy game is a great get!
Looks like a better schedule then last year so that's great
Is there a reason we don't schedule OOC games in January or February? Wasn't there a break in the Conference schedule last season where we didn't play for a week?
It all comes down to the cupcake games, though for the STHs, having another decent home game would probably also be nice. Not expecting that, though. Five high majors and two cupcakes from a pool of four means there are only 6 left to schedule, guessing those will be buy games, even though I'm hoping for 5 buys and one high major H/H starting at the BC.
Yeah would be nice to get one more with a home game. That would be a killer schedule playing 6 resume builders.
How much is Vandy losing? I know they have NBA prospects everywhere but were a letdown. Only saw Baldwin leaving. What about the 7 footer?
Pitt will be a real bitch. Michigan returns talent but they don't kill with size so they are a good match up. SMU I know loses some guys.
Utah is very beatable too bad it's at their place.
Damian Jones has not declared yet but he is expected to and is being projected as a first round pick by many. Other than him and Baldwin, they return the rest of the contributors. I expect it to be a good matchup.
Yeah would be nice to get one more with a home game. That would be a killer schedule playing 6 resume builders.
How much is Vandy losing? I know they have NBA prospects everywhere but were a letdown. Only saw Baldwin leaving. What about the 7 footer?
Pitt will be a real bitch. Michigan returns talent but they don't kill with size so they are a good match up. SMU I know loses some guys.
Utah is very beatable too bad it's at their place.
Is there a reason we don't schedule OOC games in January or February? Wasn't there a break in the Conference schedule last season where we didn't play for a week?
Depends on your perspective...Jones did say he was leaving for the NBA after this year all the way back in October, though his stock seems to have slipped since.
So we got:
Two of Michigan, Pittsburgh, and SMU. These will be in NYC as part of the 2K Classic.
Still need to see who Marquette finishes filling the schedule with. I was impressed with some of the good teams this year--Belmont, Iowa, LSU (based on ESPN-love, this win should have instantly gotten us in the Dance), Arizona St. So at this point next year, I can't say I'm impressed with the schedule until I see the cupcakes.
When was the last time our peeps approached ND's peeps about a possible H/H?Me too. This would cure any scheduling ailment.
That's the one I want most!
Me too. This would cure any scheduling ailment.
I would even agree to a 2:1 just to get it going again.
When was the last time our peeps approached ND's peeps about a possible H/H?
That's the one I want most!
From what I was told, every year since ND left the Big East. And every year we got the same answer.ND will only schedule us if it is in their interest to do so. At this point they have no upside and only downside playing us.
I'm curious as to what the generational viewpoint of rivals is. I've always said for me the biggest rivals were (in order of loathing and desire to play): Wisconsin, Louisville, Cincinnati with ND problem 4 or 5 on the list. I came of MU age in the Crean/"old" BE era. Modern grads might think differently, so might old fogeys like MU82
Right now we have one true rival that is Wisconsin, in that they care about beating us as much as we care about beating them. I put all the other games in the category of good games that we would like to schedule as much as possible. At this point the double round robin of the Big East will serve to create rivalries. It will take some time for that to play out.
I'm curious as to what the generational viewpoint of rivals is. I've always said for me the biggest rivals were (in order of loathing and desire to play): Wisconsin, Louisville, Cincinnati with ND problem 4 or 5 on the list. I came of MU age in the Crean/"old" BE era. Modern grads might think differently, so might old fogeys like MU82
Didn't Brey say he wanted to continue playing us? Must be from ND's AD and such.
Right now we have one true rival that is Wisconsin, in that they care about beating us as much as we care about beating them. I put all the other games in the category of good games that we would like to schedule as much as possible. At this point the double round robin of the Big East will serve to create rivalries. It will take some time for that to play out.
I'm curious as to what the generational viewpoint of rivals is. I've always said for me the biggest rivals were (in order of loathing and desire to play): Wisconsin, Louisville, Cincinnati with ND problem 4 or 5 on the list. I came of MU age in the Crean/"old" BE era. Modern grads might think differently, so might old fogeys like MU82
There's too much BEast love right now for them to develop.
Next time we play Villanova, who are we even suppose to root for :D
I'm wondering if the hatred for ND comes more from where you grew up rather than when you attended Marquette. I'm guessing those of you from the Chicago area might have much stronger feelings about ND than someone who grew up in northern WI, MN, etc..
I'm wondering if the hatred for ND comes more from where you grew up rather than when you attended Marquette. I'm guessing those of you from the Chicago area might have much stronger feelings about ND than someone who grew up in northern WI, MN, etc..
I'm wondering if the hatred for ND comes more from where you grew up rather than when you attended Marquette. I'm guessing those of you from the Chicago area might have much stronger feelings about ND than someone who grew up in northern WI, MN, etc..
Really more of a factor of how many Domers you know personally. ;D
Except for my BIL. He is pretty cool. You would never know he is a Notre Dame grad. Contrary to the old joke, he never mentions it.
I always thought a preseason Midwest Catholic invitational in Chicago would be cool. Get Notre Dame, Marquette, Loyola (Chicago) and Dayton play each other at the UC for two days. Three of the four have large Chicago fan-bases. I'm guessing you wouldn't want two teams from a conference competing in it (hence no DePaul).
Even though Marquette is always guaranteed to play in Chicago, it would be a big recruiting advantage for both Notre Dame and Dayton - and heck, Loyola certainly could use the added exposure.
I always thought a preseason Midwest Catholic invitational in Chicago would be cool. Get Notre Dame, Marquette, Loyola (Chicago) and Dayton play each other at the UC for two days. Three of the four have large Chicago fan-bases. I'm guessing you wouldn't want two teams from a conference competing in it (hence no DePaul).
Even though Marquette is always guaranteed to play in Chicago, it would be a big recruiting advantage for both Notre Dame and Dayton - and heck, Loyola certainly could use the added exposure.
I always thought a preseason Midwest Catholic invitational in Chicago would be cool. Get Notre Dame, Marquette, Loyola (Chicago) and Dayton play each other at the UC for two days. Three of the four have large Chicago fan-bases. I'm guessing you wouldn't want two teams from a conference competing in it (hence no DePaul).
Even though Marquette is always guaranteed to play in Chicago, it would be a big recruiting advantage for both Notre Dame and Dayton - and heck, Loyola certainly could use the added exposure.
Really more of a factor of how many Domers you know personally. ;D
Except for my BIL. He is pretty cool. You would never know he is a Notre Dame grad. Contrary to the old joke, he never mentions it.
Notre Dame was far and away our biggest rival when I was at Marquette (1978-82), followed by DePaul. Wisconsin was so effen bad for so effen long, they were barely a rival. We generally didn't recruit the same kids, either.I agree with this analysis.
Over the years, Wisconsin has grown as a rival because their program has grown into a perennial tournament team. And now they have surpassed us, at least since our S16-S16-E8 run. Plus, we're fighting for quite a few of the same recruits. So they're very hate-able.
I don't understand how somebody who went to Marquette when ND also was in the Big East can say ND wasn't much of a rival. We had some great battles and there still was the leftover stench of the old independent ND. I still root against them every time I see them, and that's in football, too. I would LOVE to play them again.
Louisville and Cinci grew to become pretty fierce rivals, and then Syracuse, Pitt, WV and UConn, too.
Now, among BE teams, Butler is right there. We seem to have some epic games against them. Always want to whup GT, as well. And as an earlier poster said, Creighton has become hate-able (from a fan's standpoint) for some reason.
Big East doesn't provide us with those easy-to-hate teams anymore
I think you would need bigger schools than Loyola and Dayton. I would ditch the Catholic concept. Say ND v. Marquette and Illinois v. Louisville or something similar.
MU/Iowa State would be fantastic in mid December.
There are the B1G/ACC, Big12/SEC and the B1G/BigEast (Gavitt) challenge games. Why hasn't the PAC12 got in some kind of a challenge? Seems like a natural for the Big East and PAC12 both on FS1.
Just curious.
UCLA and Arizona, allegedly, want no part of it. A BE/PAC-12 challenge without those two would be useless - hence why nothing has been agreed upon. Fox really wanted it, and obviously the Big East wanted it.
The regional argument has merit. As a high schooler, I loved it when we beat the crap out of the University of Tennessee. That is because I lived in Nashville, TN and went to school with smug Vol fans. I hated the Vols and thought no fruit sucks like a Big Orange.I agree with this analysis.
One of the fallouts from conference realignment is the break-up of natural rivalries. At one time or another, Notre Dame, DePaul, Wisconsin, Loyola of Chicago and even Detroit (when Vitale coached them) were rivalries to us. We also periodically played Dayton, Memphis State, Loserville and Cincinnati. Cincy was the best proof of a rivalry being focused on a person, since it was easy to hate the University of Cincinnati when the Huggy Bear Coached there.
Of these local rivalries, only DePaul and the rodent remain.
I shudder to think it publicly, but I wonder whether Wisconsin will continue to play us annually. At some point and especially if the series becomes as lopsided as it was in the 1970s, the red rodent will burrow a hole and go elsewhere. It's not inconceivable especially since we're in different conferences. Truth be told, we need the rodent on our schedule more than the rodent needs us.
The new rivalries will come. Some pop-off coach will say something. Or a team's representatives will be rude, boorish and somehow catch us on a bad day. Or the trash talk will get out of hand. Not sure where that will be yet, but someone will say something and, whamo, a rivalry is born.
UCLA and Arizona, allegedly, want no part of it. A BE/PAC-12 challenge without those two would be useless - hence why nothing has been agreed upon. Fox really wanted it, and obviously the Big East wanted it.
Yah why? Don't want to lose home games to east coast private schools?I think Arizona got all they wanted when they lost to Providence this season .
Per Jon Rothstein, Fresno State will play at the BC this year. Defending Mountain West tournament champions. Definitely a better buy than last year's MWC foe, San Jose State.Yes, though it is interesting that Fresno State lost at San Jose State (6-22) this past season. Jerry Wainwright is the associate head coach of Fresno State, btw.
Per Jon Rothstein, Fresno State will play at the BC this year. Defending Mountain West tournament champions. Definitely a better buy than last year's MWC foe, San Jose State.
#mubb 2nd @2KClassic home matchup will open 3-game homestand & run of 7-of-8 outings at @BMOHBC
So I did some math today based on this Tweet from today:Would like to see us get UWM or UWGB on those buy dates even if we have to do a 2 for 1.
We know the first five opponents...
..
- Nov 11: Vanderbilt (N)
- Nov 14: EMU/IUPUI/Gardner-Webb/Howard (H)
- Nov 17: Michigan/Pitt/SMU (N)
- Nov 18: Michigan/Pitt/SMU (N)
- Nov 22: EMU/IUPUI/Gardner-Webb/Howard (H)
But looking at what they've posted, there's a hiccup. And we pretty well know the following:
..
- Nov 27: Likely Buy Game, guessing the Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend as it's more likely students will be back.
- Nov 29/30 or Dec 1: Third of three-game homestand mentioned above
- Dec 4: Georgia, only true road game, this is on sicemdawgs.com.
- Dec 6/7: Likely Buy Game tune-up before Wisconsin
- Dec 10: Wisconsin
- Dec 13/14: Likely Buy Game
- Dec 17: Likely Buy Game, possibly Fresno State (likely biggest buy game, try to get weekend crowd)
- Dec 20/21: ???, last game before Christmas and expected Dec 28 Big East opener
7 of 8 at home automatically includes the the one away as the Georgia game. But it also leaves us one game short of the 13 allowed for the schedule. So either there is another game coming that will be a neutral site or road game, or Marquette is only playing 12 games (in which case seems like the Dec 13/14 date would be most likely to be eliminated). This would give the team a week for Christmas and before Big East play tips off.
If there's any intrigue left in this, outside of finding out whether we play East Western State or the Western University Dolphins, it's what that 13th game away from home would be.
Would like to see us get UWM or UWGB on those buy dates even if we have to do a 2 for 1.
You keep saying this, and I keep telling you all the reasons that it will not happen.My discussions with the Athletic Department lead me to believe that they are open to doing those kind of transactions under the right circumstances.
My discussions with the Athletic Department lead me to believe that they are open to doing those kind of transactions under the right circumstances.
Yeah. You're clearly talking to the wrong Athletics Department. UWM and UWGB want a home game.
This won't happen. Get kostas on the team and then they will make it work.
Our guys are willing to consider a 3 for 1.
If they are they should be fired....especially for UWM. There are no reasons to play UWM at anything more than a straight buy game. Even than I would be very opposed to playing UWM. There is zero benefit, they are even worse now than they were when we got a 4 for 1 and they couldn't come close to selling out Panther Arena for the one "road" game.
I don't see any reason to play UWGB, especially now that Wardle's gone....but if they offered a 4 for 1 I wouldn't be pissed if we accepted it.
There is absolutely no indication that Marquette has any interest in a 3 for 1 with either UWM or UWGB.
There is absolutely no indication that Marquette has any interest in a 3 for 1 with either UWM or UWGB.
+1Your very invested in not seeing this happen. Mike Broeker does not call the shots.
I don't know what "discussions with the Athletic Department" anyone else has had, but I have no problem saying that Mike Broeker told me point blank that Marquette is not interested in giving up a road game unless they get a high-major home game in return.
"Under the right circumstances" would pretty much have to be the Big 10 offering UW-M or UW-GB to join their league as a basketball only school.
EDIT: So the source is a throwaway comment in the MBJ (what else could Scholl say, "screw those guys"?) and a comment from Braun that she wants to play Marquette? Well DUH she wants to play Marquette. Because her moribund program has failed to generate interest under her leadership. By the same token, I want a suitcase of untraceable $100 bills to turn up in my garage tomorrow, but that's probably not happening either.
Your very invested in not seeing this happen. Mike Broeker does not call the shots.
Saturday, November 26- Houston BaptistFamous HBU Alumni Colin Montgomerie.
HPU was 17-16 last season, 224 in the RPI.
Lost in the first round of the CBI, to end the season at 17-17. Looks like they lose three starters.
Saturday, November 26- Houston Baptist
HPU was 17-16 last season, 224 in the RPI.
Lost in the first round of the CBI, to end the season at 17-17. Looks like they lose three starters.
Looking at this a little more. I think they squeeze in a low cupcake on Sunday, 11/20.Doubt it. They announce it in order by date.
Nov. 30 - Western Carolina. Last year an RPI of 167. Solid buy game.
Nov. 30 - Western Carolina. Last year an RPI of 167. Solid buy game.Lost their top four scorers from last year. Certainly could be worse and seems as though Broeker and Co. have learned their lesson from last year and are placing more of an emphasis on RPI
I guess i don't understand why we don't do a buy game against UWM once every three years. Would they be that opposed to it? They get the money for being the away team and don't have to travel. If the games are spread out enough, fans/media won't make a big deal that its always at Marquette. I wish they would be a little bit more open and say look we bring in 14K fans every game while UWM brings in 2k. We have no reason to play an extra away game, so it is up to UWM to play here.
Lost their top four scorers from last year. Certainly could be worse and seems as though Broeker and Co. have learned their lesson from last year and are placing more of an emphasis on RPI
I am cool with HBU and WCU if they're the two worst teams or 2/3 cupcakiest teams on the schedule. But if you add in MU's annual game or two with SWAC opponent and another 300+ RPI team, our non con schedule is going to be subpar, yet again.
There are only five "buy games" left right? And we know one of them is Fresno.
This is correct. There are 3 games likely left for the post-Bucky, pre-Con time slot
I thought we figured out there was only two.
One between UGA and UW
UW game December 10
Finals week begin Dec 12 (usually no game)
One on the weekend of Dec 17 and 18
One additional game prior to Christmas.
I am guessing there won't be one between Christmas and the December 28 conference opener.
So will there be TWO buy games during the conference season? I guess that's what you get when you cram the conference start into two games ending December and the first couple days in January.
Probably right, I forgot that the conference season starts so soon this year. 2 buy games during the conference season just seems like a recipe for complaint and two 300+ RPI games.
Or maybe two games the week of December 19?
Maybe they go 18th and 22rd?
I was thinking...
Saturday, December 17
Monday, December 19
Thursday, December 22
I was thinking...
Saturday, December 17
Monday, December 19
Thursday, December 22
I was thinking...
Saturday, December 17
Monday, December 19
Thursday, December 22
It'd be tight, but I could also see them going 17th, 20th and 26th...still think they want a game between Christmas and conference start....don't want to have a week off then jump into league play.
It'd be tight, but I could also see them going 17th, 20th and 26th...still think they want a game between Christmas and conference start....don't want to have a week off then jump into league play.Other than one rare game, nobody plays on Dec. 26st.
We've done things like that before. Would give the players part of 4 days home. Probably due back evening of 12/26. Frankly expecting college kids to open conference on 12/28 is crazy. That'll put games less than 48 hours after the legal holiday.
UWM has zero issue with a 3 for 1...they'd do it in a heartbeat at this point. MU should no play a return game with UWM, full stop. MU is the one stopping a 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 because there is no value in Marquette playing a road game at UWM, giving up the revenue that comes with a home game and the opportunity to have a home and home with a legitimate opponent.
I said I don't understand why UWM wouldn't just play us at MU once every three years. I could see why they wouldn't want to play here every year based on scheduling and PR reasons. MU obviously doesn't want there to be play at UWM. I think they could get by where they have they can hype up the game to make it a sell out from MU's perspective (excitement if it's only once per 3-4 years) and UWM gets paid like an away game without the travel.
I said I don't understand why UWM wouldn't just play us at MU once every three years. I could see why they wouldn't want to play here every year based on scheduling and PR reasons. MU obviously doesn't want there to be play at UWM. I think they could get by where they have they can hype up the game to make it a sell out from MU's perspective (excitement if it's only once per 3-4 years) and UWM gets paid like an away game without the travel.
If we're going to give a 3-for-1 to a Horizon team (we shouldn't) I'd rather do it for Detroit and help a fellow Catholic school.
As long as UW-Madison gives them the 3-for-1 deal, I don't expect UW-Milwaukee (or Green Bay) to take less than that from Marquette. They have more incentive because they're all part of the same system, but we've got no such motivation.For the sake of Ike we need to do a 3:1 with Detroit.
Here's the thing...we're 39-0 against Milwaukee. That's the best undefeated series in NCAA history. Until someone else gets to 40-0, why bother playing them? When we win, we're just the crosstown bully, and when we lose, we're ridiculed. Where's the upside in that? If we're going to give a 3-for-1 to a Horizon team (we shouldn't) I'd rather do it for Detroit and help a fellow Catholic school. Makes more sense than helping the Hyphens and less downside to losing.
For the sake of Ike we need to do a 3:1 with Detroit.
And make the 1 the first game of the series so that when he's a 1 and done he'll have gotten a homecoming in college, am I right?UNC did the UNI game in Marcus Paige senior year.
UNC did the UNI game in Marcus Paige senior year.
For the sake of Ike we need to do a 3:1 with Detroit.Could be Oakland as well, not just Detroit.
11/11/16 vs. VanderbiltWe can only play 13 non-conference games, if the tournament includes four games. We have two games in New York. Are there two more games associated with this tournament?
11/14/16 Howard
11/17/16 Michigan/Pittsburgh/SMU
11/18/16 TBA New York, N.Y
11/22/16 IUPUI/EMU/Gardner-Webb Milwaukee, Wis. TBA
11/26/16 vs. Houston Baptist Milwaukee, Wis. TBA
11/30/16 vs. Western Carolina
12/4/16 @ Georgia
12/7/16 TBA at the BC
12/10/16 Wisconsin
It looks like one during conference play.
We can only play 13 non-conference games, if the tournament includes four games. We have two games in New York. Are there two more games associated with this tournament?
11/14 presumably v. HowardThat is what I was thinking, but thought it odd that the game was after New York.
11/22 v. IUPUI/EMU/Gardner Webb.
If we're going to give a 3-for-1 to a Horizon team (we shouldn't) I'd rather do it for Detroit and help a fellow Catholic school. Makes more sense than helping the Hyphens and less downside to losing.....not only Catholic.......Jesuit!
Marquette won't pay them like an away game without the travel.
Why wouldn't they? Would they rather play a lower RPI team that doesn't draw as well that they have to fly in from Alabama. As long as they don;t have to give up a home game, who cares is the traveling team has to travel or not.
Why wouldn't they? Would they rather play a lower RPI team that doesn't draw as well that they have to fly in from Alabama. As long as they don;t have to give up a home game, who cares is the traveling team has to travel or not.
That whole tournament is odd. It's the week before Thanksgiving which means two home games during Thanksgiving week. Ghost town.Well, one game is days before Thanksgiving. It will happen with the handfull of exempt tournaments that are the week before Thanksgiving.
Opening post updated with information we now know. Howard having Marquette on their schedule for 11/14 yesterday is conclusive enough for me even though it's been taken down. Same thing happened with Belmont last year and the date originally released proved correct.
Georgia on December 4 made official today. That's going to be a tough game. They lose two starters, but JJ Frazier is ridiculous. Put up 16.9 ppg/4.6 rpg/4.4 apg last year and his efficiency numbers were straight out of a video game. Yante Maten is another very good player that could give us fits in the frontcourt. Good chance they'll be in the mix for a tourney berth come March.
There is bad blood with regards to UWM within the MU athletic department from the previous deal. They would rather pay more for someone else to come in and not give UWM the satisfaction. Whether you want to believe this or not the decision has nothing to do with pure logic. There is no benefit to MU to play UWM other than saving a couple of grand and I actually doubt UWM would provide a "discount" since they don't have to travel...consider it little brother syndrome.
As long as UW-Madison gives them the 3-for-1 deal, I don't expect UW-Milwaukee (or Green Bay) to take less than that from Marquette. They have more incentive because they're all part of the same system, but we've got no such motivation.
Here's the thing...we're 39-0 against Milwaukee. That's the best undefeated series in NCAA history. Until someone else gets to 40-0, why bother playing them? When we win, we're just the crosstown bully, and when we lose, we're ridiculed. Where's the upside in that? If we're going to give a 3-for-1 to a Horizon team (we shouldn't) I'd rather do it for Detroit and help a fellow Catholic school. Makes more sense than helping the Hyphens and less downside to losing.
As far as the bad blood goes, I remember Marquette putting zero effort in to advertising MU playing the game at the now-Panther Arena. I also remember being at that game and it was nowhere near sold out. Marquette doesn't sell out the BC for UWM, either.The last two three home games with UWM drew 14.917 (12/22/11) and 14,244 (12/8/09) and 15,168 (11/22/08). So I think it is safe to say there is plenty of demand for this product.
This isn't a hottest ticket in town scenario. If there's not demand from the paying public, why bother?
As far as the bad blood goes, I remember Marquette putting zero effort in to advertising MU playing the game at the now-Panther Arena. I also remember being at that game and it was nowhere near sold out. Marquette doesn't sell out the BC for UWM, either.I would hate to be the MU coach that actually loses to UWM. Imagine MUScoop after that game.
This isn't a hottest ticket in town scenario. If there's not demand from the paying public, why bother?
Pretty sure the best undefeated series is Syracuse vs Colgate. Remember reading this a few years back
The last two three home games with UWM drew 14.917 (12/22/11) and 14,244 (12/8/09) and 15,168 (11/22/08). So I think it is safe to say there is plenty of demand for this product.
I believe UWM and UWGB games are perfect for the time period when school is out of session.
You're looking at the numbers wrong. All of those totals were below the season average for sales. Just because we're drawing 13k now doesn't mean it was always like that. Each of those seasons you mention the average sales was over 15,000. And I'm guessing there were quite a few fans dressed as empty seats.
As far as the bad blood goes, I remember Marquette putting zero effort in to advertising MU playing the game at the now-Panther Arena.
You're looking at the numbers wrong. All of those totals were below the season average for sales. Just because we're drawing 13k now doesn't mean it was always like that. Each of those seasons you mention the average sales was over 15,000. And I'm guessing there were quite a few fans dressed as empty seats.
Exactly
08/09 Avg. Attendance - 16,200
13,668 - Houston Baptist
13,158 - Central Michigan
13,470 - IPFW
13,653 - Western Carolina
13,879 - Presbyterian
15,168 - UWM (Sat. night game)
In a prime slot on a Sat. night, UWM drew an extra 1,600 people buying upper deck cheap seats over the average of 13,565 for those other crappy games.
09/10 Avg. Attendance - 15,617
14,093 - Centenary
13,511 - Maryland East. Shore
13,716 - Grambling
13,731 - South Dakota
14,117 - North Florida
14,321 - Presbyterian
14,244 - UWM
So UWM drew an extra 300 people over the average of 13,914 for those other crappy games. Again, the expensive lower bowl seats are already sold out with season ticket holders, so those extra people probably spent $15/ticket in the upper deck. UWM cost MU more than those other buy games and we probably made an extra $4,500 before the additional costs to help make UWM look more legitimate and have everyone in the local media crap on MU for a week.
11/12 Avg. Attendance - 15,138
13,834 - Mount St. Marys
12,765 - Norfolk
12,848 - Jacksonville
14,208 - UWGB
13,593 - N. Colorado
14,917 - UWM
UWM drew 1,467 more than the average of13,450 for those other buy games. In exchange for all this we had to give up a home-game the previous year, which probably cost us $400,000.
Fresno State is on Dec. 6 or 7th.
That is what I was thinking, but thought it odd that the game was after New York.
MU vs Michigan is set, Pitt/SMU for 2K.This is an excellent opportunity for a quality win.
To complete the analysis, you'd also have to look at the number of season ticket holders in a given year. There is a baked number of tickets already, and as you point out UWM barely cleared more "walk ups" than someone like Northern Colorado and we had to give up a games worth of revenue to get that.
UWM can go suck a lemon.
Schedule says 12/6.Does it?
RPI wise, really would have preferred Gardner-Webb or Eastern Michigan.
Does it?It does, but I didn't see that tweet.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnQDeg-WYAAOWtb.jpg
MarquetteMBB @MarquetteMBB · 3h3 hours ago
.@Bucks schedule will determine game date vs. @FresnoStateMBB. #mubb claimed 1st meeting in 1979.
RPI wise, really would have preferred Gardner-Webb or Eastern Michigan. We got the short end of the stick there.
However, with the rest of the opening schedule I can't be too disappointed. The remaining cupcakes need to solid and we'll be in good shape. Vandy, Michigan, Pitt/SMU, Wisconsin, Georgia, Fresno State are all good games.
If IUPUI can finish in top 200 in RPI again, or even top 250, it'll be OK.
I hope that we still have another neutral site game, plus two more buys in the 100-200 range. 10 games scheduled and released now (including UW), so still 3 more to announce.
To expect a 150ish RPI game during that slot before Christmas (excluding the 17th itself) isn't realistic in my mine. Just hope for 275-300, not 325-350.
With respect to UWM - while it may not generate any more walk up, it probably does generate more people actually showing up. As a 23 year STH I eat more and more buy games every year. I would always attend a UWM or UWGB game. And I know many around me feel the same way. The problem we have as MU fans is MU has very little incentive to make sure we show up. They get minimal concessions and minimal merchandise from the BMO BC so once they've sold the seat, they're done.I went to the last UWGB game at the BC, and to your point, the people actually showed up in the stands. Lower Bowl was full and significant amount of people in the uppers. School was out. I believe these local teams have a place in our schedule as an alternative to the junk buy games we consistently get.
Look at Michigan State, they consistently have Oakland, EMU, WMU, CMU, Detroit on their schedule. They sell out every game regardless, so they obviously see value in it.
I went to the last UWGB game at the BC, and to your point, the people actually showed up in the stands. Lower Bowl was full and significant amount of people in the uppers. School was out. I believe these local teams have a place in our schedule as an alternative to the junk buy games we consistently get.
Look at Michigan State, they consistently have Oakland, EMU, WMU, CMU, Detroit on their schedule. They sell out every game regardless, so they obviously see value in it.
RPI wise, really would have preferred Gardner-Webb or Eastern Michigan. We got the short end of the stick there.
Just curious why you think that? 150ish RPI teams have to play games too.
Marquette isn't Michigan State.
Because with the exception of some quality H/H (Vandy and ASU a few years ago come to mind), Marquette has often played some of its weakest opponents in that week before Christmas. You know, those teams that do 3 week road trips in late December so they can afford gas for the bus during their conference season. Last year Chicago State, the year before Alabama A&M. Stuff like that.
Look, our non-con is already credible. I'd be very surprised is another team better than RPI 225 is announced.
I know that is what recent history seems to indicate will be the case , but I hope that they've learned. If MU's final three games to be announced are all dog poop teams, we're still going to be hurting from an RPI perspective, barring some real surprise seasons from Western Carolina, Houston Baptist, and whatever else is rolled out.
We aspire to be though.
Marquette isn't Michigan State.
We aspire to be though.
I would prefer the in state games to Grambling and North Carolina Central.
Right. The way Marquette becomes Michigan State is by whooping up on Horizon League in-state opponents.
Because Marquette isn't stupid. You don't pay a team to drive across town the same as you would fly a team to fly into Milwaukee.
That's just a stupid way to run a business. you don't make decisions based on pride or the other businesses profit. You make the decision based on what's best for you. If UWM is the same price as a southern school but you get an opponent with better RPI and interest from the fanbase you take that deal. Who cares if UWM profits? It just sounds petty and cheap to take away a game lots of fans would be interested in seeing.One of my fundamental rules of business is don't look in the other guys pocket. Be satisfied with what works for you.
That's just a stupid way to run a business. you don't make decisions based on pride or the other businesses profit. You make the decision based on what's best for you. If UWM is the same price as a southern school but you get an opponent with better RPI and interest from the fanbase you take that deal. Who cares if UWM profits? It just sounds petty and cheap to take away a game lots of fans would be interested in seeing.
One of my fundamental rules of business is don't look in the other guys pocket. Be satisfied with what works for you.
Sometimes a guy can't help but be jealous of what Dayton has, a''ina?I am through with Kostas until he decides to do a Luke and becomes homesick. I am on to Theo John and Terrance Lewis.
"Lots of fans" LOL. Not really.
And UWM can take it or leave it. They don't take it, they can go somewhere else.
That's just a stupid way to run a business. you don't make decisions based on pride or the other businesses profit. You make the decision based on what's best for you. If UWM is the same price as a southern school but you get an opponent with better RPI and interest from the fanbase you take that deal. Who cares if UWM profits? It just sounds petty and cheap to take away a game lots of fans would be interested in seeing.
But everything about this is wrong. First, it's not the same cost. To get UWM, Marquette would have to give up a home game every four years. So you bring in an extra 500-1,000 people for that game versus another buy team but give up a home game that will sell at least 10,000 tickets? That's senseless. 10,000 > 3,000.
So if the cost is not the same, and fan interest is marginal, both of which we've established are pretty clearly the case, where's the incentive? The only reason to do it is to help UWM out. But based on past history, they can't sell their building out even when they do play us, so if the motivation is altruistic, it's also a flawed reason.
Further, the odds of playing on the road decrease your win chances significantly. Why risk a loss to Milwaukee when you could buy a comparable win with a team from further away?
Giving up a home game to get UWM on the schedule doesn't make dollars or sense.
I am through with Kostas until he decides to do a Luke and becomes homesick. I am on to Theo John and Terrance Lewis.
Matchup with @BadgerMBB will cap busy week for #mubb. MU will then break for finals before last 2 non-league games.
Guessing those will be Dec. 17th or 18th and 21st or 22nd.
Aren't they a game short then?
Two more non-con games leaves them at 17 home games, 30 overall. Plus the gate on the exhibition game they're sticking us with.
Looking back, it's either been 30 or 31 regular season games, and 16 or 17 home games. Last year was a bit of an outlier when it came to the home schedule.
Two more non-con games leaves them at 17 home games, 30 overall. Plus the gate on the exhibition game they're sticking us with.
Looking back, it's either been 30 or 31 regular season games, and 16 or 17 home games. Last year was a bit of an outlier when it came to the home schedule.
Two more non-con games leaves them at 17 home games, 30 overall. Plus the gate on the exhibition game they're sticking us with.Last year was a heavy with 20 home games.
Looking back, it's either been 30 or 31 regular season games, and 16 or 17 home games. Last year was a bit of an outlier when it came to the home schedule.
But it's a 4 game exempt tourney. Has Marquette ever left an available buy game on the table? Is that what they would be doing if they didn't play #31?
| H A N T 15-16 19 10 2 31 14-15 17 10 3 30 13-14 16 12 3 31 12-13 16 11 3 30 11-12 16 11 4 31 10-11 18 11 2 31 |
Here's the breakdown from the last 6 schedules.
Home Away Neutral Total
15-16 19 10 2 31
14-15 17 10 3 30
13-14 16 12 3 31
12-13 16 11 3 30
11-12 16 11 4 31
10-11 18 11 2 31
I'm too lazy to do the work. The operative question is whether those 30 games seasons were always associated with 3 game exempt tournaments while the 31 associated with 4 game.
Here's the breakdown (home, away, neutral) from the last 6 schedules.
H A N T
15-16 19 10 2 31
14-15 17 10 3 30
13-14 16 12 3 31
12-13 16 11 3 30
11-12 16 11 4 31
10-11 18 11 2 31
Have heard in the past that MU needs at least 16 home dates on the schedule to make enough money. Not sure if that has changed with the decline in STH numbers.
In 2014-15, we played 30 because we only got 3 games from the Orlando Classic. They did have home games for some of the teams involved, but we weren't one of them. In 2012-13, we played 30 because the Ohio State game on the Yorktown was cancelled and we didn't get a make-up game anywhere in the season. I've never known of Marquette to leave a game on the table before when they could have had a home date.
This would give us a breakdown of 17 home games, 10 away games, and 3 neutral site games. Not sure why they wouldn't want the 18th game at home from a financial perspective. Though I suppose, STHs pay the same whether there are 17 or 18 home games.
In 2012-13, we played 30 because the Ohio State game on the Yorktown was cancelled and we didn't get a make-up game anywhere in the season.
MU left a game on the table in 14-15, Wojo's first year. Only played 12 non con d1 games that season.
I believe your conclusion is incorrect. In 14-15 they played in the 3 game Orlando Classic. Each tournament (up to a maximum of 4 games) counts as a single game when calculating the total allowable non-cons. This year we are playing a longer 4 game tourney. So by definition one would be left on the table If I'm not mistaken.
(And I could be. ;D)
Totally forgot about the Condensation Classic.
Unless it's a decent opponent, I'm fine with where things are at. The less crap games I have to sit through, the better.
MU left a game on the table in 14-15, Wojo's first year. Only played 12 non con d1 games that season.
Gotcha, I thought it was just 13 was the limit for d1 non-con games.
The limit is actually 10, but one of those 10 can be an exempt tourney which can give teams anywhere from (I believe) 2-4 games.
Well...the limit isn't even exactly 10, it's dependent on the length of the conference season as well. But for our purposes, 9 games + 1 exempt tourney is how it works out.
Plus if you want to improve the RPI it needs to be by playing teams that will win games. I have zero confidence in UWM having success the next couple of years given the state of that program that would make them a coveted RPI opponent
Gotcha, I thought it was just 13 was the limit for d1 non-con games.
Getting to the 20 win mark is important for our program. I believe having 31 chances is better then 30.
From a financial perspective, I don't understand why you would leave a game on the table. From an RPI perspective, no game is better than a game against a Grambling or a Chicago State.
If I had to guess, the last game was supposed to be the one against Utah. It fell apart, presumably because of scheduling issues, and they weren't left with enough time to find another quality opponent.
I believe the rule is 27 games plus one multi game tourney that can be up to four. So up to 31 total.
31 total minus 18 league games, means 9 "regular" non conference games, and up to 4 tourney games.
That's what I've been thinking this entire conversation. They are going to SUCK next year. I'm talking like Sub 300 level bad potentially. And while I do like the Jordan hire, I'm not convinced that he will be able to overcome the barriers UWM will self impose and turn this team around anytime soon.Hard to say, I do like the newcomers.
20 wins doesn't mean anything.I agree we want to make the tournament. Given our recent track record, that is not a given. At the very least we want to put up a 20 win season for PR reasons which is important to the overall goal.
What's important for MU is consistently making the NCAA Tournament. Adding another lousy opponent on the home schedule doesn't get them any closer to that goal.
I agree we want to make the tournament. Given our recent track record, that is not a given. At the very least we want to put up a 20 win season for PR reasons which is important to the overall goal.
Marquette put up a 20 win season last year.
It looks good on the mast head of MU Scoop. Would like to see us up that total.
Marquette put up a 20 win season last year.
On the schedule board Mike Broker on June 1st put this out..
Marquette needs one guarantee game to finalize its schedule - December 6, possibly could play on 7th.
On the schedule board Mike Broker on June 1st put this out..What is the schedule board?
Marquette needs one guarantee game to finalize its schedule - December 6, possibly could play on 7th.
Matchup with @BadgerMBB will cap busy week for #mubb. MU will then break for finals before last 2 non-league games.If I remember correctly, last year they had similar wording to that above , then they somehow came up with the Stetson game during the conference season.
Guessing those will be Dec. 17th or 18th and 21st or 22nd.
They get no marginal revenue from a season ticket perspective because they are sold on a base price. Not to bring this argument up again, but if season ticket holders make up a significant majority of the attendance for a non-conference buy game, then you likely aren't forgoing much revenue.
With the conference season starting on December 28, I think it came down to timing. They either had to schedule a game during finals week, schedule three games in like six days before Christmas, or schedule a non conference game versus a Stetson-like opponent during the conference season. None of those are very appealing options.
I just looked back on previous schedules, and ever since joining the BE, Marquette has *always* scheduled a game between Christmas and the start of conference play. (Almost all of these were buy games. The only exceptions were the ill-fated series v. Vandy.) They can't do that this year.
What is the schedule board?Basketball Travelers Schedule Board.
Basketball Travelers Schedule Board.
It's were schools put out adds, in who needs any type of game to fill it's schedule.
At this point, I'm much happier with our schedule than in years past. It's not the trainwreck we've sometimes seen. A few thoughts with two games left to be announced:
High-Majors: Wisconsin, Georgia, and Michigan are all good bets for the tourney. Pitt also would be if we play them, if not SMU (like Vandy) would be a decent opponent. Five nice games there.
Quality Buy Game: Fresno State loses a lot but should still be a good name on the resume.
Decent Home Games: Howard will likely start 5 seniors and contend in the MEAC. They could be this season's Norfolk State. IUPUI should be decent (all the 2K home games were at least decent) as they should start 4 seniors and had a host of contributing underclassmen last year. Might drop off a bit, but the Summit is a decent league and usually everyone in the league gets to 10+ wins. Western Carolina is similar to IUPUI in that they lose some talent but play in a decent league and should get 10+ wins.
One Possible Dog: I'm kind of torn on Houston Baptist. Losing Anthony Odunsi, who was a stud for them, will be tough to replace, and they lose 3 senior starters. But they will likely start 3-4 seniors this year and if someone can emerge at the point, they could be better than I'm thinking. At a glance, this looks like the only possible sub-300 team.
If the last two games are at least middle-of-the-road buy games, teams that can win around 10-15 games, then I think a 9-3 non-con record and 19 total wins should be enough to get us into the NCAAs. This time last year, I was pretty pissed about the schedule. This year is definitely an improvement, and the kind of schedule that sets you up to at least feel like you will have a respectable chance to make the tourney if you can get to 18-21 wins.
where does the speculation on Dec 28 conf opener come from?
i get not going up against CFB F4 on Sat Dec 31st, but moving to 12/28 seems too early.
Until Illinois-Chicago and North Carolina A&T are announced the next two days....
If the next two are dogs, so be it. You need some easy wins on the schedule. I can live with 2-3 teams that have single digit D1 wins. It'd be an upgrade over last year where we had 6 teams that had single-digit D1 wins.
where does the speculation on Dec 28 conf opener come from?On our season-ticket package we get in the mail.
At this point, I'm much happier with our schedule than in years past. It's not the trainwreck we've sometimes seen. A few thoughts with two games left to be announced:
High-Majors: Wisconsin, Georgia, and Michigan are all good bets for the tourney. Pitt also would be if we play them, if not SMU (like Vandy) would be a decent opponent. Five nice games there.
But everything about this is wrong. First, it's not the same cost. To get UWM, Marquette would have to give up a home game every four years. So you bring in an extra 500-1,000 people for that game versus another buy team but give up a home game that will sell at least 10,000 tickets? That's senseless. 10,000 > 3,000.
So if the cost is not the same, and fan interest is marginal, both of which we've established are pretty clearly the case, where's the incentive? The only reason to do it is to help UWM out. But based on past history, they can't sell their building out even when they do play us, so if the motivation is altruistic, it's also a flawed reason.
Further, the odds of playing on the road decrease your win chances significantly. Why risk a loss to Milwaukee when you could buy a comparable win with a team from further away?
Giving up a home game to get UWM on the schedule doesn't make dollars or sense.
My original comment was buying UWM once every four years and paying them as if they traveled. (Granted UWM won't due that, which I think is dumb). The person I quoted said MU would be stupid to pay UWM full price since they don't have to travel.
My original comment was buying UWM once every four years and paying them as if they traveled. (Granted UWM won't due that, which I think is dumb). The person I quoted said MU would be stupid to pay UWM full price since they don't have to travel.
266 per CBS Sports ;D
Ended the year on a 6 game losing streak
Lose their top 3 scorers.
I have the badgers in the final four.
St Francis (PA) had a season ending RPI of 266, but who cares? X2.
They had a Selection Sunday RPI of 263, but who cares?
Only 12 D-I victories last year, but here's some color on why their season went south...
http://www.nycbuckets.com/2016/07/injuries-especially-isaiah-blackmons-derailed-sfu-last-season/
Really?
December 19th vs. St. Francis (PA)
13-17 with an RPI of 267 last year, per ESPN.
Lose their top 3 scorers.
How come we don't try and get a game with UWM?
Why don't we try and bring back football?
Why didn't we all invest in Apple before the Ipod came out?
How come we don't try and get a game with UWM?
How come we don't try and get a game with UWM?
How come we don't try and get a game with UWM?We should.
Why don't we try and bring back football?Never should have given it up.
Why didn't we all invest in Apple before the Ipod came out?I did.
So one of the guys I'm most interested to see next year...St. Francis senior guard Georgios Angelou. The Greek sharpshooter likes to shoot the long ball. I mean...REALLY likes to shoot the long ball. Last year, he took 60 shots on the season, 54 beyond the arc (48.1% accuracy). For his career, 71 of his 79 total shot attempts are threes. His eFG% last year was a positively silly 70.0%. Also was a perfect 14/14 at the line (guess you don't get fouled much when you pretty much never go inside). He's fifth in returning minutes, so I'd think he will play even more next year and be able to fire up more shots from long-range.
"REALLY likes to shoot the long ball" probably s/b "REALLY prefers to shoot the long ball in those rare instances when he shoots"... only once in his career has he made more than two 3-pointers in a game, a''ina? That %Shots is tiny.
Very true, but that disparity is just insane. I wonder how many guys took as many shots and around 90% beyond the arc.[\quote]
Seems almost impossible, but I think Max Hooper of Oakland shot more than 250 times last year and NEVER inside the 3-point line
It does seem almost impossible, but you're right. 117/257 and all his attempts were from outside the arc. Top-10 in the country in offensive efficiency and eFG%, as well as 21st in 3PFG%. Wow. Just bizarrely amazing.
Very true, but that disparity is just insane. I wonder how many guys took as many shots and around 90% beyond the arc.
If the past is any indication, probably 6 or 7 sub-300 RPI teams that prevent us from making the Dance again.
Using KenPom's end-of-season rankings, here's how the 2016-17 schedule stacks up against last year's:
#1 to #50
2016-17: 3 teams (Pitt/SMU, Vandy, UW)
2015-16: 2 teams (Iowa, UW)
This is all fine and good until someone ax'es, "what is the relevance?"
SMU - new coach? Yep.
Pitt - new coach? Uhuh... via Vandy
Vandy - new coach? Oh yeah. Jones, Baldwin to NBA? Yeah...
I think the good thing is that we don't have any many certified, no doubt stinkers on the schedule. There are some teams that could certainly take an ugly step backwards in 2016-17 and that's scary... but, last year there was a hefty group of sure-shot bottom of the barrel teams that all but guaranteed an unfavorable NC sked from an RPI (diff than KenPom, of course, but also KenPom) perspective.
Using KenPom's end-of-season rankings, here's how the 2016-17 schedule stacks up against last year's:
#1 to #50
2016-17: 3 teams (Pitt/SMU, Vandy, UW)
2015-16: 2 teams (Iowa, UW)
#51 to #100
2016-17: 2 teams (Georgia, Michigan)
2015-16: 1 team (LSU)
#101 - #150
2016-17: 1 team (Fresno St.)
2015-16: 2 teams (ASU, Belmont)
#151- #200
2016-17: 1 team (W. Carolina)
2015-16: None
#201 - #250
2016-17: 1 team (IUPUI)
2015-16: 2 teams (IUPUI, Jackson St.)
#251 - #300
2016-17: 2 teams (Houston Baptist, St. Francis)
2015-16: 2 teams (San Jose St., Stetson)
#301 - #350
2016-17: 2 teams (Howard, SIU-Edwardsville)
2015-16: 4 teams (Grambling St., Maine, Chicago St., Presbyterian)
This obviously doesn't take into account players lost or added. But the eye test suggests we'll have a stronger schedule — potentially including 5 top 100 teams (vs. 3 last season) and just 5 rated 200 or worse (vs. 8 a year ago).
When you're the coach watching that guy drain a three against you, the thought has to be "HOW THE HELL DID YOU IDIOTS LEAVE HIM OPEN OUT THERE? I TOLD YOU HE ONLY SHOOTS THREES!!!!!"Right, it's like a shift in baseball, just over commit by sticking on him beyond the arc and if he scores an easy lay-up, make him do it again and again...then adjust.
^^^ if only last year's results impacted RPI or anything else......
Obviously, last year's results don't impact this season's RPI. But until the season actually begins, they're one of the best indicators of schedule strength we have.
Look at Ken Pomeroy's season-end rankings for Marquette over the past 15 years. Our average ranking was 46.6 — meaning that, on average, we've been a top 50 program. MU finished in the top 50 in 10 out of 15 seasons. We were still top 100 (76th, 93rd and 95th) in 3 others, just missing the top 100 (106th and 110th) in 2.
Now compare that to Chicago State, for example. Their average ranking: 286.0. They've finished 250th or worse in 9 out of the past 15 seasons — including the past 7 years. Since 2001-02, Pomeroy hasn't ranked Chicago St. higher than 200th.
My point is, if a team finished top 50 or 300th a year ago, it's reasonable to project they'll be similarly competitive this year — in the absence of any other information, of course. Even when we finished dead last in the Big East two seasons ago, we still ranked in the top third of all Division I teams. And even when Chicago St. had its best season of the millennium, it didn't come close to being considered for postseason play.
Granted, it's a crude measure. But that doesn't make it useless.
It is, to a point. Honestly, while I won't disagree that to date this is probably the best way to look at this, I think it's a terrible way to look at it. Look at a team like Norfolk State years ago, or any other team that "comes from nowhere". Thing is, these teams don't come from nowhere. It's just a matter of identifying what qualities will lead to a breakout year. For Norfolk State, it was an experienced team led by an absolute beast in senior and future NBA player Kyle O'Quinn. This year, it could be Howard, who has the nation's leading scorer coming back, a key member returning from injury, and returns most of their team. By the same token, who would have seen us falling from being a regular top-50, tournament lock to three seasons of missing the dance and ratings around 100?
There have to be better ways to analyze, but no one has put it in a nice, compact package for the public yet. Basketball is far too stats oriented to not be at least a bit more predictable than last year's (or the last 5-10 years) numbers.
Of course, to analyze who might be better RPI wise from the previous year and match it up in terms of availability of the school, the BC, etc. is probably a little too much to ask.
Oh, it's not too much to ask. There's work being done by a number of people. That info just doesn't get provided to the public. ;)
The only grievance I have with the schedule is we have 30 games and not 31. I would prefer we have more chances to get to the 20 win mark. I think we need to win at least 3 out of the 5 quality opponent games and then win all the rest. That would put us 10-2 going into conference play.
Really depends on what that 31st game would have been. My guess is that between BC availability, rational scheduling from a rest standpoint, and availability of other teams the 31st would have been a 300+ team. Better to not play them then risk getting a team that won't win much and drag down the RPI.
20 wins isn't the magic number it once was.
Because of the conference season starting early on December 28, the only two choices were scheduling a game during Finals week or scheduling a buy-game in the middle of conference season. The Stetson game was dreadful. Giving the guys a week off is much better than playing some doormat on a Tuesday in January.