Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[Hards Alumni]

Curious that neighboring Arab states have said they will take no Palestinians.

Not really.

This has been explained here like 20 times. 

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Nonsense. Because it has been discussed has no bearing on my comment that their neighbors want no part of them

[forgetful]

IMHO, that's not the whole truth. If so, that would mean their hatred for Israel>their empathy for innocent Palestinians who are dying. I think its a combination of that, and not wanting to actually house the refugees. Do you really believe that if the Palestinian refugees went to Egypt until an agreement was reached (Say 6 months), they wouldn't be allowed back to Gaza?

Others have already mentioned it, but your error is that you believe that Israel has any intention of any relocation being temporary.

A hold up to previous 2-state negotiations was over the idea of the "right to return," for Palestinians displaced during other conflicts. Israel refuses to allow any of them to return. They sure as hell would not allow Gazans to return one they are removed.

It was leaked early on, that their goal in this conflict is to seize all of Gaza and remove Palestinians from that land permanently.

[Heisenberg]

Others have already mentioned it, but your error is that you believe that Israel has any intention of any relocation being temporary.

A hold up to previous 2-state negotiations was over the idea of the "right to return," for Palestinians displaced during other conflicts. Israel refuses to allow any of them to return. They sure as hell would not allow Gazans to return one they are removed.

It was leaked early on, that their goal in this conflict is to seize all of Gaza and remove Palestinians from that land permanently.

If they do not relocate them, it's a genocide.

If they relocate them, it is ethnic cleansing (and I might add it is an ethnic cleansing because the Palestinians ethnically cleansed Gaza of Jews and everyone else to begin with. Gaza is not multi-cultural).

Israel cannot win.

So, what is the solution?

[The Sultan]

If they do not relocate them, it's a genocide.

If they relocate them, it is ethnic cleansing (and I might add it is an ethnic cleansing because the Palestinians ethnically cleansed Gaza of Jews and everyone else to begin with. Gaza is not multi-cultural).

Israel cannot win.

So, what is the solution?

You are ignoring the fact that they are planning this "voluntary relocation" for when after the war has been completed.

[Hards Alumni]

Nonsense. Because it has been discussed has no bearing on my comment that their neighbors want no part of them

Nonsense.  You didn't read why they won't accept Gazan refugees.  You said it was curious why they didn't, yet you don't want to know why.

Truly that is what is curious.

[Pakuni]

If they do not relocate them, it's a genocide.

Yes, killing them all or total displacement are the only two options.

[Heisenberg]

Yes, killing them all or total displacement are the only two options.

So, answer my last line.

"So, what is the solution?"

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Others have already mentioned it, but your error is that you believe that Israel has any intention of any relocation being temporary.

A hold up to previous 2-state negotiations was over the idea of the "right to return," for Palestinians displaced during other conflicts. Israel refuses to allow any of them to return. They sure as hell would not allow Gazans to return one they are removed.

It was leaked early on, that their goal in this conflict is to seize all of Gaza and remove Palestinians from that land permanently.

Were that true they would not have agreed to a two state solution to be turned down twice. Also if that were true 
The Palestinians in Israel ( who serve in government and all aspects of life) would not have increased to over 250,000. That is hardly the definition of genocide.

[forgetful]

Were that true they would not have agreed to a two state solution to be turned down twice. Also if that were true 
The Palestinians in Israel ( who serve in government and all aspects of life) would not have increased to over 250,000. That is hardly the definition of genocide.

Except they never agreed to a 2-state solution only to be turned down twice.

They were very close once, then far-right Israeli extremists assassinated Rabin, because he was seeking a 2-state solution.

The other time, they were also close, and they voted out the guy that was negotiating a 2-state solution. Since then, they have elected officials who vehemently oppose any Palestinian state between the Jordan River and the Sea.

In neither instance was there an agreement on the table that either party fully agreed with.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Arafat for one had the agreement and he did reject it

[Pakuni]

Arafat for one had the agreement and he did reject it

Ahem ..

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Saturday night that he was "proud" he prevented the establishment of a Palestinian state and took credit for "putting the brakes" on the Oslo peace process, during a press conference at the Defense Ministry headquarters in Tel Aviv.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/pointing-to-hamass-little-state-netanyahu-touts-role-blocking-2-state-solution/

[Pakuni]

So, answer my last line.

"So, what is the solution?"

The only solution is for moderates on both sides to compromise on a teo-state solution. Chances of that happening anytime soon aren't great, but it's the only hope.
Until then, lather, rinse, repeat.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Hope for moderates to win out but it is hard to compromise with people whose sole purpose is to destroy Israel. I read where Israel's desire is for the clans to run the neighborhoods after Hamas is gone
That might be a better solution

[forgetful]

Hope for moderates to win out but it is hard to compromise with people whose sole purpose is to destroy Israel. I read where Israel's desire is for the clans to run the neighborhoods after Hamas is gone
That might be a better solution

That's a horrible idea. It's called the Taliban...worked great for Afghanistan.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Sorry I don't get the correlation between the two

[Pakuni]

Hope for moderates to win out but it is hard to compromise with people whose sole purpose is to destroy Israel.

Overall, 73 percent of Gazans favored a peaceful settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. On the eve of Hamas's October 7 attack, just 20 percent of Gazans favored a military solution that could result in the destruction of the state of Israel.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas

[forgetful]

Sorry I don't get the correlation between the two

The Taliban was largely a clan-based political architecture of the Pashtun people in Afghanistan.

The only reason Israel would want a clan-based architecture is because they know it would destabilize Gaza, and make it more likely that their ideal scenario would be accepted.

[MU82]

It's nice to see the antisemite Musk whine about the evils of "reverse racism."

In other news about the "free-speech absolutist" ... SpaceX illegally fired employees critical of Elon Musk, a regulator finds. Eight workers who had circulated a letter calling on the company to distance itself from Musk's social media posts, were wrongly dismissed, according to the National Labor Relations Board. The case will head to an administrative judicial hearing in March.

[forgetful]

Pretty damning article regarding Israeli actions and tolerance for politicians calling for genocide.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/03/israeli-public-figures-accuse-judiciary-of-ignoring-incitement-to-genocide-in-gaza

The fact that prominent Israelis are essentially supporting the South African criminal case against Israel is pretty crazy.

Language like that coming out of Israeli Politicians, calling for the murder/death of all Gazans/Palestinians, has only really been heard of once in modern history.

[The Sultan]

Iran set the trap, and Israel is just walking right into it.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

Iran set the trap, and Israel is just walking right into it.

Don't be antisemitic. Suggesting restraint because it'll only hurt Israel long term is antisemitic.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

The Taliban was largely a clan-based political architecture of the Pashtun people in Afghanistan.

The only reason Israel would want a clan-based architecture is because they know it would destabilize Gaza, and make it more likely that their ideal scenario would be accepted.

Completely disagree with your take on the clan structure. It is a suggestion to get away from Hamas and Hezbollah type governance. The Taliban are fundamentally Pashtun fundamentalst Islamic movement. The clan thing is pretty murky. Read " 12 men strong". Today you may fight with your cousin but tomorrow you may switch sides and fight with him.
Again the genocide charge works if your entire government is calling for the destruction of a people. The idea that Israel is embarking on that course is debunked by the fact that the Arabs,Palestinians and Bedouin have prospered and increased in the decades Israel has been in existence

[Pakuni]

It's nice to see the antisemite Musk whine about the evils of "reverse racism."

Thought he was busy whining about Green Day.

[Heisenberg]

The only solution is for moderates on both sides to compromise on a teo-state solution. Chances of that happening anytime soon aren't great, but it's the only hope.
Until then, lather, rinse, repeat.

They got their second state, Gaza, when Israel completely pulled out in 2005.

And did that offer Israel any security against terrorism?  Answer: no.

So a two-state solution is "this is yours, this is ours, you leave us alone, we leave you alone." When offered this opportunity, the Palestinians did not do this.

Overall, 73 percent of Gazans favored a peaceful settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. On the eve of Hamas's October 7 attack, just 20 percent of Gazans favored a military solution that could result in the destruction of the state of Israel.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas

This story is dated October 25 and uses a survey with these parameters.

Our most recent interviews were carried out between September 28 and October 8, surveying 790 respondents in the West Bank and 399 in Gaza. (Interviews in Gaza were completed on October 6.)

Subsequent surveys after October 7 show support for Hamas has increased significantly. I post several of them earlier.

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A two-state solution is not possible. Neither side wants it.