Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[forgetful]

Thank you for stating what should have been obvious to everyone. A baby who dies from SIDS is a horrific tragedy -but it's not infanticide. A baby who is accidentally killed in the course of a declared war is a horrific tragedy - but it's not infanticide. A baby taken from its bed and intentionally murdered? That's a horrific tragedy that's also infanticide. I assume Pakuni is able to discern the difference between A and C. He's unable to do so between B and C. Odd, but there's a lot of odd in this thread.

What about a baby who dies, because you are conducting a siege on a hospital, and refuse to allow life-saving fuel needed to power incubators keeping them alive?

And as others have said, what about babies who die, when you bomb an apartment complex, because a soldier also lives in that complex.

If one of our nations enemies, blew up an apartment building, because one of our generals lived in it, we would view it as terrorism, and a horrific act of war, and we would be right, it would be a warcrime.

I'm beginning to realize that how one views these issues is largely based on where they lie on the philosophical spectrum of deontology<-->consequentialism/utilitarianism and, if you lie closer to the consequentialism/utilitarianism end, whether you look through the lens of evaluating the effect on everyone equally, or whether you prescribe to the idea that one side is good, and the other bad.

[Heisenberg]

Sexual violence against anyone is never justified as well.

Someone should tell all the anti-Israel protestors that the side they are defending thinks this ...

Lebanese TV ....

https://twitter.com/NowTheEndBegins/status/1731768493031256526

@NowTheEndBegins
JUST ANNOUNCED "Allah allows Muslim men to rape non-Muslim women in order to humiliate them. If we fought Israel we can take their (Jewish) women as sex sIaves and rape them. It is allowed in the Quran and the hadiths" — Islamic scholar. #HamasRapists #HamasTerrorrists

[The Sultan]

Someone should tell all the anti-Israel protestors that the side they are defending thinks this ...

Lebanese TV ....

https://twitter.com/NowTheEndBegins/status/1731768493031256526

@NowTheEndBegins
JUST ANNOUNCED "Allah allows Muslim men to rape non-Muslim women in order to humiliate them. If we fought Israel we can take their (Jewish) women as sex sIaves and rape them. It is allowed in the Quran and the hadiths" — Islamic scholar. #HamasRapists #HamasTerrorrists

Gotta love that Heisey is promoting tweets from....

Now The End Begins
@NowTheEndBegins
Since 2009, NTEB has been an end times witness for Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world in the last days before the Pretribulation Rapture of the Church.

[Hards Alumni]

Someone should tell all the anti-Israel protestors that the side they are defending thinks this ...

Lebanese TV ....

https://twitter.com/NowTheEndBegins/status/1731768493031256526

@NowTheEndBegins
JUST ANNOUNCED "Allah allows Muslim men to rape non-Muslim women in order to humiliate them. If we fought Israel we can take their (Jewish) women as sex sIaves and rape them. It is allowed in the Quran and the hadiths" — Islamic scholar. #HamasRapists #HamasTerrorrists

I doubt anti-Israel protestors are defending such things.  Because they understand nuance.

You don't, so... 🤷

[Heisenberg]

And yes, Ackman (Harvard) and Marc Rowan of Apollo (Penn) are in touch with every other Board of Trustee member, discussing if they should "ask" their Presidents to resign.

Maybe they don't fire them, and maybe they don't resign, but their BoT meetings are not pleasant anymore, and they have lost a lot of donations and prestige.

Yes, they are still ivies, but that means a little less today than it did on October 6.

----

https://twitter.com/BillAckman/status/1732179418787783089

The presidents of @Harvard, @MIT, and @Penn were all asked the following question
under oath at today's congressional hearing on antisemitism: Does calling for the genocide of Jews
violate [your university's] code of conduct or rules regarding bullying or harassment?.

The answers they gave reflect the profound moral bankruptcy of Presidents Gay, Magill and Kornbluth.
In short, they said: It 'depends on the context' and 'whether the speech turns into conduct,' that is,
actually killing Jews... The presidents' answers reflect the profound educational, moral and ethical
failures that pervade certain of our elite educational institutions due in large part to their failed
leadership. Don't take my word for it.

You must watch the following three minutes. By the end, you will be where I am. They must all resign
in disgrace... Why has antisemitism exploded on campus and around the world? Because of leaders like
Presidents Gay, Magill and Kornbluth who believe genocide depends on the context

[Hards Alumni]

And yes, Ackman (Harvard) and Marc Rowan of Apollo (Penn) are in touch with every other Board of Trustee member, discussing if they should "ask" their Presidents to resign.

Maybe they don't fire them, and maybe they don't resign, but their BoT meetings are not pleasant anymore, and they have lost a lot of donations and prestige.

Yes, they are still ivies, but that means a little less today than it did on October 6.

----

https://twitter.com/BillAckman/status/1732179418787783089

The presidents of @Harvard, @MIT, and @Penn were all asked the following question
under oath at today's congressional hearing on antisemitism: Does calling for the genocide of Jews
violate [your university's] code of conduct or rules regarding bullying or harassment?.

The answers they gave reflect the profound moral bankruptcy of Presidents Gay, Magill and Kornbluth.
In short, they said: It 'depends on the context' and 'whether the speech turns into conduct,' that is,
actually killing Jews... The presidents' answers reflect the profound educational, moral and ethical
failures that pervade certain of our elite educational institutions due in large part to their failed
leadership. Don't take my word for it.

You must watch the following three minutes. By the end, you will be where I am. They must all resign
in disgrace... Why has antisemitism exploded on campus and around the world? Because of leaders like
Presidents Gay, Magill and Kornbluth who believe genocide depends on the context

Maybe to people like you who are very invested in the culture war.  Normal people won't notice.

[Heisenberg]

I doubt anti-Israel protestors are defending such things.  Because they understand nuance.

You don't, so... 🤷

What part of "gas the Jews" and "from the river to the sea" falls under an understanding of nuance?

[Hards Alumni]

What part of "gas the Jews" and "from the river to the sea" falls under an understanding of nuance?

The part where you think anyone protesting against Israel is in agreement with your statement.

[Lennys Tap]

What is your opinion on 'accidentally' starving children to death?  Or 'accidentally' destroying infrastructure so that the ICU units at a hospital don't work and the child dies a slow agonizing death?

Are those accidents?  Or are they something that is acknowledged as a 'cost' of war?

How would you feel as a parent of one of those children?  Are they still dead?  Still murdered by a state actor all the same?

Of course I think it's awful. I also think that Hamas bears much of the responsibility.  Warnings and time for evacuations were given. And either ignored or prevented by Hamas. But of course it's still awful.

In the case of the Israeli women and children there's only one perpetrator and they most definitely not casualties of war. There was no warning. It was not an act of war. It was simple mass rape and murder. That you, Pakuni and others are unable to see the difference is as puzzling as it is troubling.

[Pakuni]

A baby who is accidentally killed in the course of a declared war is a horrific tragedy - but it's not infanticide.

It is literally infanticide, which Webster's defines as the killing of an infant.

A baby taken from its bed and intentionally murdered? That's a horrific tragedy that's also infanticide. I assume Pakuni is able to discern the difference between A and C. He's unable to do so between B and C. Odd, but there's a lot of odd in this thread.

The issue isn't with understanding the different circumstances. That's a disingenuous argument.
The issue is your absurd compulsion to rank baby killings.
They're all bad. Stop. There's no need to create Lennys Baby Killing Scale (TM) and rate them.

[Hards Alumni]

Of course I think it's awful. I also think that Hamas bears much of the responsibility.  Warnings and time for evacuations were given. And either ignored or prevented by Hamas. But of course it's still awful.

In the case of the Israeli women and children there's only one perpetrator and they most definitely not casualties of war. There was no warning. It was not an act of war. It was simple mass rape and murder. That you, Pakuni and others are unable to see the difference is as puzzling as it is troubling.

When the US dropped napalm indiscriminately across North Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos did you have the same opinion?  As the skin was melting off of women and children was that okay?  Would it have been fine if we had dropped pamphlets ahead of time?  I'm trying to understand what level of war crime you're comfortable with.

Warnings are pointless when the information can't get to the intended recipients or they're being held against their will, unable to escape.

If you're fine with bombing a building of civilians to kill a few terrorists, then I guess that is your ethical decision to make.  I won't ever think that it is okay.

[Lennys Tap]

It is literally infanticide, which Webster's defines as the killing of an infant.

The issue isn't with understanding the different circumstances. That's a disingenuous argument.
The issue is your absurd compulsion to rank baby killings.
They're all bad. Stop. There's no need to create Lennys Baby Killing Scale (TM) and rate them.

Wrong. Infanticide is the intentional killing of a baby, not the accidental killing of one. The fact that you can't distinguish between the two is what's bad. Stop.

[Pakuni]

Wrong. Infanticide is the intentional killing of a baby, not the accidental killing of one. The fact that you can't distinguish between the two is what's bad. Stop.

You're arguing with the dictionary, my guy.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infanticide

It's no different than homicide. For some reason people think homicide is a synonym for murder. It's not.

[Hards Alumni]

Wrong. Infanticide is the intentional killing of a baby, not the accidental killing of one. The fact that you can't distinguish between the two is what's bad. Stop.

Even if you weren't wrong here...

Knowingly dropping a bomb on a building where you know there are babies is still intentional.  It isn't an accident.

If you want to justify it, this isn't the way.

[Pakuni]

In the case of the Israeli women and children there's only one perpetrator and they most definitely not casualties of war. There was no warning. It was not an act of war. It was simple mass rape and murder. That you, Pakuni and others are unable to see the difference is as puzzling as it is troubling.

You believe Israel and Palestinian groups weren't at war on Oct. 6?


On Sept. 25, 2023:
The Israeli army attacked Sunday two military posts of the Islamist movement Hamas in the Gaza Strip for the third consecutive day in response to a new day of protests by Palestinians along the separation fence.

https://efe.com/en/latest-news/2023-09-25/israel-shells-hamas-posts-in-gaza-for-third-day-in-response-to-riots/

July 3, 2023:
Israel has launched a major aerial and ground offensive into the occupied West Bank city of Jenin, its biggest military operation in the Palestinian territory in years, in what it described as an "extensive counter-terrorism effort".
At least eight Palestinians were killed and 50 injured, 10 seriously, in the attack that began at about 1am on Monday, and the death toll is likely to rise, according to the Palestinian health ministry.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/03/palestinians-killed-israeli-strike-west-bank-jenin

May 9, 2023:
On May 9, Israel initiated a direct attack on the senior commanders of Palestinian Islamic Jihad in Gaza while ignoring Hamas, its third such attack since November 2019. The operation was Israel's response to an escalation of rocket and mortar fire by Palestinian Islamic Jihad, an escalation that was itself a response to the death of a senior member of the group's West Bank branch while on hunger strike in an Israeli prison.
https://besacenter.org/operation-shield-and-arrow-may-9-13-2023/

To be clear, I am in no way justifying or rationalizing the events of Oct. 7. The people responsible are monsters who I hope are brought to justice. But the suggestion that the two sides were somehow not at war prior to Oct. 7 doesn't add up.

[4everwarriors]

Will the antisemites posting on this board please raise your hand so there can be no misunderstanding that you have been incorrectly identified, hey?

[MU82]

Will the antisemites posting on this board please raise your hand so there can be no misunderstanding that you have been incorrectly identified, hey?

Who knew Tucker, Elon, Putin, MTG, Gosar, the 91-felony Criminal Defendant and all the other antisemites you support post on this board, hey?

[MUBurrow]

What's unintentional about dropping thousands of pounds of bombs on locations where you know children are present?
I'm open to arguments about necessity and unavoidably, but these bombings aren't an accident. If you intentionally blow up a building full of civilians, you can't claim civilian deaths are unintentional.

Okay, that's fair.  I agree unintentional is not a good word choice. Regarding necessity or avoidability, that is what I was referring to as effectiveness.  It is impossible to determine necessity or avoidability of civilian deaths until we define victory conditions. E.g. we need the "what" before we can talk about "how."  Once we have Israel's "what," we can gauge whether their "how" is effective, and whether the collateral damage is acceptable in the context of that effectiveness. 

Which leads to

Personally, I think the goal is obvious, but ultimately unrealistic.  Eliminate terrorism originating from Gaza.

I agree that its unrealistic as Gaza existed on October 6.  I am guessing that the end result here is an occupation that is legally dubious from an international law standpoint, but largely unavoidable from an immediate security standpoint.  I just hate that it isn't being defined at this stage.

[Uncle Rico]

Will the antisemites posting on this board please raise your hand so there can be no misunderstanding that you have been incorrectly identified, hey?

Does that include telling Jewish people how they should think and vote?

[4everwarriors]

Damn straight it does. I'll tell anyone within shoutin' range includin' ewe two, hey?

[MU82]

Does that include telling Jewish people how they should think and vote?

Jewish peeple ar stoopid wen it cumms to Jewish ishoos. Only Tucker, MTG, Putin and gentile Mequon dentists reely no.

[Uncle Rico]

Damn straight it does. I'll tell anyone within shoutin' range includin' ewe two, hey?

Glad you outed yourself as an anti-semite.  Raise your hand

[Lennys Tap]

You're arguing with the dictionary, my guy.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infanticide

It's no different than homicide. For some reason people think homicide is a synonym for murder. It's not.

So you're saying a doctor who makes a mistake on the operating table that results in a baby's death (accidentally kills it) has committed infanticide.

I disagree. In fact, I think it's absurd. The "intentional" part is self evident. You've know what self evident means, a'ina?

Some other websites with their definitions:

humanium.com: the act of intentionally causing the death of a very young child (under one year of age)

Study.com: the deliberate killing of a child under the age of 1.

Wikipedia: infanticide is defined as the intentional killing of infants or offspring.


Many more and everyone I found had intent as part of the definition. IOW, reasonable.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And yes, Ackman (Harvard) and Marc Rowan of Apollo (Penn) are in touch with every other Board of Trustee member, discussing if they should "ask" their Presidents to resign.

Maybe they don't fire them, and maybe they don't resign, but their BoT meetings are not pleasant anymore, and they have lost a lot of donations and prestige.

Yes, they are still ivies, but that means a little less today than it did on October 6.

----

https://twitter.com/BillAckman/status/1732179418787783089

The presidents of @Harvard, @MIT, and @Penn were all asked the following question
under oath at today's congressional hearing on antisemitism: Does calling for the genocide of Jews
violate [your university's] code of conduct or rules regarding bullying or harassment?.

The answers they gave reflect the profound moral bankruptcy of Presidents Gay, Magill and Kornbluth.
In short, they said: It 'depends on the context' and 'whether the speech turns into conduct,' that is,
actually killing Jews... The presidents' answers reflect the profound educational, moral and ethical
failures that pervade certain of our elite educational institutions due in large part to their failed
leadership. Don't take my word for it.

You must watch the following three minutes. By the end, you will be where I am. They must all resign
in disgrace... Why has antisemitism exploded on campus and around the world? Because of leaders like
Presidents Gay, Magill and Kornbluth who believe genocide depends on the context

The presidents were correct.  It does depend on context. The congresswoman knows that,  Ackman knows that, and I hope you know that after our discussions here but they and you see an opportunity to fight a culture war and are taking advantage.

Again,  Ackman and others are calling on the Ivies to violate students first amendment rights, which will lead to lawsuits, which will either be successful or settled, which will then result in universities funding antisemitism. Ackman is advocating for students to be paid thousands if not millions of dollars for being antisemetic.

The presidents may end up resigning or being removed because they make convenient scapegoats, but nothing will change as a result.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

Damn straight it does. I'll tell anyone within shoutin' range includin' ewe two, hey?

lol