Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[4everwarriors]

BTW, there are a few posters here who are not idiots, hey?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

And?

[Uncle Rico]

This isn't addressing to me, but Ive found this all very disturbing/interesting.

Ive been a fairly vocal Musk "defender".  Not so much a fanboy, but an admirer of his work and his efforts in a bunch of tech spaces.  More recently, Ive pushed back hard against the, IMO, super dumb efforts to discredit him based on people not liking him.   Hes not smart, he actually inherited hundreds of millions from a magical emerald mine, etc...

That being said, I'm beyond disgusted with where he's went over the last 2-3 months.  I'm not in the camp that thinks this is what he always has been (oh he's from Apartheid SA, he's always been a racist bigot), but I think his attempt to be galaxy brained in rooting out all "conspiracies" has melted his mind, put him in alignment with a bunch of hateful dipcraps, and turned him into someone who has a pretty twisted view of everything.  Anti-semitism, like racism, is a learned behavior that develops over time.  And buying into absurd conspiracies helps that ideology bloom like algae in a pond.  And, FWIW, I think this has gone beyond typical two party political bounds.

Ive always been able to separate business from the person, but I'd have major pause if I was heavily invested or tied to TSLA, SpaceX, etc...

I find Musk's actions far more disturbing based on his influence.  His influence crosses political lines.  There is a far greater devoted cult to him than what's happening at say, Columbia.

The same is true for Tucker who has a devoted cult of worshippers as well.  Dismissing them as pawns is fascinating to me.  Two media figures who we've been told are as powerful as any when it comes to the next election spouting anti-Semitic messages don't matter but what's happening at college campuses does?

Huh. 

[Heisenberg]

The question is WHY aren't you interested in what Elon Musk says?

You are VERY interested in what some 18-22 year old college student signs - you think he or she should be unemployable for the rest of his or her life if his or her name is on some student protest paper ... but you aren't the least bit interested in one of the most powerful people in the world actively recruiting Jew-haters to his platform, actively supporting Jew-haters, going out of his way to agree with Jew-haters?

19-year-old Skippy Jones at Harvard is a threat to Jews and Israel ... a few Scoopers you disagree with are threats to Jews and Israel ... a few politicians with little real influence are threats to Jews and Israel ... but Elon Effen Musk isn't?

Here's this today on Seeking Alpha:

IBM has suspended advertising on Elon Musk's X, formerly known as Twitter, after a media report said the social media platform ran the tech giant's ads next to pro-Nazi material.

Non-profit website Media Matters said it found ads from major brands such as IBM (IBM), Apple (AAPL), Oracle (ORCL), Comcast's (CMCSA) Xfinity and NBCUniversal's Bravo next to content "that touts Adolf Hitler and his Nazi Party."

"IBM (IBM) has zero tolerance for hate speech and discrimination, and we immediately suspended all advertising on X while we investigate this entirely unacceptable situation," a company spokesperson told Seeking Alpha. ...

IBM's move follows Musk agreeing with a conspiracy theory that claimed Jewish communities were "pushing dialectical hatred against whites." He also blamed the ADL for anti-white rhetoric.

"At a time when antisemitism is exploding in America and surging around the world, it is dangerous to use one's influence to validate and promote antisemitic theories," said ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt.

Douchey, you've probably written 100 posts on what you feel is anti-Semitism on college campuses. I've agreed with some and not agreed with others. In other threads, you've displayed admiration for Elon Musk (you're right: I shouldn't have used the term "fellated") and you have spoken about what an important outlet you think X is.

But now that the two issues have collided - Musk is a powerful anti-Semite with powerful allies (including most of the GOP) and a powerful platform - you suddenly aren't "interested"?

OK. But somehow I have a feeling that if this were the NYT taking advertising dollars from the Nazis or if this were a university president claiming Jewish communities were "pushing dialectical hatred against whites," you'd have been VERY interested, and you'd have had another couple dozen posts about it.

My recommendation would be that you tone down your rhetoric toward a few Scoopers you disagree with, and start focusing your outrage on powerful people like Musk, whose Jew-hating actually has an influence on the world.

I am interested in Twitter, but that does not mean I follow whatever Musk pontificates about or retweets on X. So, regarding the second part, this is the first I've seen of it.

Regarding the first part, the inability to regulate hate speech on X, I'm in 100% agreement. This is terrible. If I was an advertiser on X I would stop too until this was cleaned up. So I agree with IBM and the others that stopped advertising.

 

[Heisenberg]

If you wonder why you have been titled "not a serious person," its because of things like this. You intentionally make crap up, and grossly mischaracterize anything anyone says, if you don't agree with them.

When proven wrong, you double, triple, or quadruple down.

I tried to engage in honest discussion, but it is time to put you on ignore. There is no honest, and fruitful discussion here.

Ok, when you say that Israel has to accept Palestinian refugees in its country. Then you detail the following:

How many
How will be be housed
How long
What if they don't want to return, then what
What if these "refugee camps" have violence and/or unrest. How aggressive can Israel be in quelling this?
What if they demand a "right of return" and protest to get it

—-

Convince me this will not be a livestock pen that feeds and cleans the refugees for a period of weeks with the expectation they will all walk back to Gaza when ordered. And this will not be fraught with all kinds of problems, issues, and violence that spawn another 100 pages of outrage on this thread.

Because, this idea has not been through through. It is a bunch of virtual signaling words that will garnering you praise from other unthinking types. Sorry I ruined your plan.

[forgetful]

This isn't addressing to me, but Ive found this all very disturbing/interesting.

Ive been a fairly vocal Musk "defender".  Not so much a fanboy, but an admirer of his work and his efforts in a bunch of tech spaces.  More recently, Ive pushed back hard against the, IMO, super dumb efforts to discredit him based on people not liking him.   Hes not smart, he actually inherited hundreds of millions from a magical emerald mine, etc...

That being said, I'm beyond disgusted with where he's went over the last 2-3 months.  I'm not in the camp that thinks this is what he always has been (oh he's from Apartheid SA, he's always been a racist bigot), but I think his attempt to be galaxy brained in rooting out all "conspiracies" has melted his mind, put him in alignment with a bunch of hateful dipcraps, and turned him into someone who has a pretty twisted view of everything.  Anti-semitism, like racism, is a learned behavior that develops over time.  And buying into absurd conspiracies helps that ideology bloom like algae in a pond.  And, FWIW, I think this has gone beyond typical two party political bounds.

Ive always been able to separate business from the person, but I'd have major pause if I was heavily invested or tied to TSLA, SpaceX, etc...

I think this is a solid post. I've never been a big Musk fan, and do not think he was ever a "genius," but this stuff is all different, scary, and frankly a little unhinged.

I think your synopsis, and theory regarding where this came from is solid.

Regarding the bolded. I wonder how much his words will impact his companies stock prices.

Also, if you get a chance to visit or take part in any of the Shabbat's being set up with 240+ empty seats around the country, I'd recommend it. Sobering event.

-----

One other note that you might find interesting, and in the vein of there can certainly be peace. Unfortunately I wasn't able to attend, but I had been invited to a wedding (Syrian couple). They live down 2-blocks from a large Synagogue and in a neighborhood largely populated by Jewish families (with whom they are decent friends with several). Saw the pictures and the wedding involved both the Syrian families with traditional Islamic wedding practices, and Jewish families wishing them well and taking part in the festivities.

[JWags85]

I find Musk's actions far more disturbing based on his influence.  His influence crosses political lines.  There is a far greater devoted cult to him than what's happening at say, Columbia.

The same is true for Tucker who has a devoted cult of worshippers as well.  Dismissing them as pawns is fascinating to me.  Two media figures who we've been told are as powerful as any when it comes to the next election spouting anti-Semitic messages don't matter but what's happening at college campuses does?

Huh.

I agree with this as well.  I mean, you just glance at X and you'll see people who have historically been anti-woke, liberals are the worst, etc... and suddenly they are dancing around in anti-Israel messaging, heavily rooted anti-Semitic basis, and agreeing with people that wouldn't normally follow simple political lines.  Its really F'd up.

One other note that you might find interesting, and in the vein of there can certainly be peace. Unfortunately I wasn't able to attend, but I had been invited to a wedding (Syrian couple). They live down 2-blocks from a large Synagogue and in a neighborhood largely populated by Jewish families (with whom they are decent friends with several). Saw the pictures and the wedding involved both the Syrian families with traditional Islamic wedding practices, and Jewish families wishing them well and taking part in the festivities.

Absolutely.  Its the real world versus polarized internet world.  I know multiple people who had no idea their good friend was Jewish until they got a wedding invite.  The vast majority of people have no issues with the religious preference provided the person in question is a good friend/neighbor.

Its the same as politics.  You get Millenials/GenZ on the internet talking about how they would never be friends with/date/etc... someone that is a Republican/woke/didn't loudly support XYZ, but in reality hardly anyone lives like that, and the ones that do are in a like minded echo chamber that isn't going to bring them in contact with anyone counter to their thinking anyways.

[Heisenberg]

Was pointed to this by someone last night. Apparently part of the evidence the US/Israel is using in regards to there being a base under Al Shifa is the fact that Israel built a bunker and operating room underneath Al Shifa back in 1983.

They believed Hamas was using the Israeli bunker.

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-israel-build-bunker-under-shifa-hospital-1844107

Newsweek validated that Israel did indeed build a fortified bunker under Al Shifa, by cross-referencing multiple Israeli news sources in the past that referenced its construction.

This is why I get on your case because this post, like so many others from you (including the ones you delete), are thinly veiled anti-Zionist screeds. While you say you support Israel you do posts like this over and over, and for those that understand your implication, they think you're not genuine in your support of Israel.

——

So let me add some context.

1983 was 22 years before Hamas was voted as the Government of Gaza. In 1983 Israel occupied Gaza. It was so calm that Gaza city was actually a nice place. People from as far away as Tel Aviv would drive to Gaza City to go to nightclubs on Saturday night.

After the Olso accords were agreed to in 1994, Bill Clinton visited Gaza in 1998. Air Force one landed at what is now Yassir Arafat Airport in Gaza and Clinton met with Arafat and the PM of Israel in Gaza City. Half of Clinton's cabinet was with him. The secret service saw Gaza City and Tele Aviv as equal in terms of the security risk for the President.

Gaza was a far different place back then and that is when people suggested it could become the Hong Kong or Singapore of the Middle East. It has some of the most beatiful beaches in the world and argubaly better weather than southern CA.

Then in 2000 when Arafat walked away from Ehud Barak/Bill Clinton two state solution (yes, he walked away), everything went south. The Second Intafida began and few months later. Since Arafat lived in Gaza and was orchasating the violence, Gaza desended into the open air prison it is today.

Arafat died in 2004, and with him the PLO's leadership, which effectively no longer exists. Gaza got really ugly. So Israel pulled out in 2005, and not only forcibly removed all Jews from Gaza, but as I noted before, they even dug up Jewish graves and took the remains with them.

——

So Israel built hospitals, and a lot of other building they have been attacking in the last six weeks, when they ran the place decades ago when it was relatively calm.

So big deal that Israel built Al-Shifa 40 years ago.  And big deal it has tunnels under it. That was a different time.

What is your point, or inference here?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Ive been a fairly vocal Musk "defender".  Not so much a fanboy, but an admirer of his work and his efforts in a bunch of tech spaces.  More recently, Ive pushed back hard against the, IMO, super dumb efforts to discredit him based on people not liking him.   Hes not smart, he actually inherited hundreds of millions from a magical emerald mine, etc...

That being said, I'm beyond disgusted with where he's went over the last 2-3 months.  I'm not in the camp that thinks this is what he always has been (oh he's from Apartheid SA, he's always been a racist bigot), but I think his attempt to be galaxy brained in rooting out all "conspiracies" has melted his mind, put him in alignment with a bunch of hateful dipcraps, and turned him into someone who has a pretty twisted view of everything.  Anti-semitism, like racism, is a learned behavior that develops over time.  And buying into absurd conspiracies helps that ideology bloom like algae in a pond.  And, FWIW, I think this has gone beyond typical two party political bounds.

This is close to where I am, though I noticed the radical change some time ago. Five-six-seven years ago I did think Musk was a genius and I was kicking myself for feeling like I had missed out on buying TSLA. I think this was around the time that SpaceX was just beginning to take off (so to speak).

But then Musk started to make some very odd public comments--not political, just really strange. Then he full blown jumped the shark, and I was glad I didn't invest in a company run by someone so unstable that their actions could sink it. And all that was well before his Twitter escapades.

Playing the amateur psychologist, he seemed to me that his fame and power sent him over the edge. I think he quickly realized that he was immune from all rules and repercussions. I mean, manipulate the market, turn a $130M profit on that manipulation, and the FEC fines you $10M? A joke. Then add in millions of fanbois who reinforce everything he does, absolutely fawning Boards of Directors, no one in his circle that will tell him no...his ego is unchecked.

Whether his views have developed over time or whether his wealth or power have just allowed him to express who has always been I don't know, but he shows the world everyday exactly what he is now.

[MU82]

I am interested in Twitter, but that does not mean I follow whatever Musk pontificates about or retweets on X. So, regarding the second part, this is the first I've seen of it.

Regarding the first part, the inability to regulate hate speech on X, I'm in 100% agreement. This is terrible. If I was an advertiser on X I would stop too until this was cleaned up. So I agree with IBM and the others that stopped advertising.

Thanks for the response. But again, I would suggest that you - as a vocal defender of Jews and Israel - SHOULD be very interested that one of the most powerful people on the planet, the richest person in the world, and the operator of a humongous social-media says and does anti-Semitic things.

You've called out all kinds of folks here, from Scoopers, to college kids, to college professors, to politicians, to liberals in general, to Democrats in particular, to regular Joes, etc. But you can't bring yourself to call out this guy?

Huh.

Some folks in this thread have a problem. Even as they rail about anti-Semitism, they support - and in some cases borderline worship - anti-Semites. Not saying that's you; that's only for you to know.

So, its ok to be antisemitic...if you're just a regular Joe, hey?

Simply stated, one can't be a fan of Tucker Carlson, Elon Musk and Donald Trump while also claiming to be revolted by anti-Semites.

Or I guess one can, but that would make one full of excrement.

I mean, do whatever you want - it's still a free country. Listen to the anti-Semite's rants on whatever his platform du jour is now, admire the anti-Semite auto/social media/spaceship mogul's business acumen, and vote for the politician who would have little chance to get elected without the vote of anti-Semites and other bigots (a vote he solicits both publicly and privately), but at least be honest about it.

Or don't. Pretend you're supporting Jews and Israel by calling out a few Scoopers even as you support powerful anti-Semites who actually can change the course of events.

Hey.

[4everwarriors]

Whatever makes you feel like you're doing your part to combat antisemitism, hey?

[lawdog77]

Whatever makes you feel like you're doing your part to combat antisemitism, hey?

[MU82]

Whatever makes you feel like you're doing your part to combat antisemitism, hey?

Holy irony, Batman. Not sure how to even respond, given how willing you've been to support anti-Semites. Though lawdog captured it pretty nicely.

[JWags85]

Simply stated, one can't be a fan of Tucker Carlson, Elon Musk and Donald Trump while also claiming to be revolted by anti-Semites.

I know its hard, but I don't think including Trump in there is germane to the growing anti-Semitism and its influence by public individuals theme.  As mentioned before here by others, Trump is the biggest narcissist meglomaniac in the public sphere today.  He has, and will always, be only about himself and who best can aid him at that moment.  He has done things to benefit and behold himself to the Jewish population, and he's done things that can be viewed as anti-Semitic, mostly by not checking his supporters who engage in that sort of behavior.  He's just an amoral chameleon of influence, not some vocal hater of Jews or other races.  I certainly wouldn't call him a friend or champion of any of them, but he's certainly not like many who have shown themselves in the last month to openly revile the Jewish population.

Thats certainly not meant to be in support or defense of the man, but I think attaching him as the bogeyman to many issues just creates undue noise from the true issue.

[MU82]

I know its hard, but I don't think including Trump in there is germane to the growing anti-Semitism and its influence by public individuals theme.  As mentioned before here by others, Trump is the biggest narcissist meglomaniac in the public sphere today.  He has, and will always, be only about himself and who best can aid him at that moment.  He has done things to benefit and behold himself to the Jewish population, and he's done things that can be viewed as anti-Semitic, mostly by not checking his supporters who engage in that sort of behavior.  He's just an amoral chameleon of influence, not some vocal hater of Jews or other races.  I certainly wouldn't call him a friend or champion of any of them, but he's certainly not like many who have shown themselves in the last month to openly revile the Jewish population.

Thats certainly not meant to be in support or defense of the man, but I think attaching him as the bogeyman to many issues just creates undue noise from the true issue.

He accepts and curries support from anti-Semites, so I'm gonna disagree with you here, Wags.

One need not be a "vocal hater" to hurt the cause. He is not "the bogeyman," he simply is part of the problem. And the fact that he has a loud megaphone and significant power makes him more than a little part.

[4everwarriors]

Oh, and the BOTUS, who tries to talk out of both sides of his mouth, not very successfully however, keeps the billions flowing to Iran and refuses to impose oil sanctions. And, this is who you've hooked your wagon onto...shameful, aina?

[lawdog77]

Oh, and the BOTUS, who tries to talk out of both sides of his mouth, not very successfully however, keeps the billions flowing to Iran and refuses to impose oil sanctions. And, this is who you've hooked your wagon onto...shameful, aina?

Moral of the story, all politicians suck. It's best not to show blind loyalty to any of them.

[Uncle Rico]

He accepts and curries support from anti-Semites, so I'm gonna disagree with you here, Wags.

One need not be a "vocal hater" to hurt the cause. He is not "the bogeyman," he simply is part of the problem. And the fact that he has a loud megaphone and significant power makes him more than a little part.

He's just a pawn

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

Supposedly Musk really likes his Ketamine.

Something he has in common with *** (deleted due to chance for misinterpretation)

[4everwarriors]

I won't even dignify you and your slanderous and feeble attempt at humor.

[Uncle Rico]

Supposedly Musk really likes his Ketamine.

Something he has in common with our dentists huh

Apple quit advertising on X.  Good for them not doing business with an anti-semite. 

[Lennys Tap]

I know its hard, but I don't think including Trump in there is germane to the growing anti-Semitism and its influence by public individuals theme.  As mentioned before here by others, Trump is the biggest narcissist meglomaniac in the public sphere today.  He has, and will always, be only about himself and who best can aid him at that moment.  He has done things to benefit and behold himself to the Jewish population, and he's done things that can be viewed as anti-Semitic, mostly by not checking his supporters who engage in that sort of behavior.  He's just an amoral chameleon of influence, not some vocal hater of Jews or other races.  I certainly wouldn't call him a friend or champion of any of them, but he's certainly not like many who have shown themselves in the last month to openly revile the Jewish population.

Thats certainly not meant to be in support or defense of the man, but I think attaching him as the bogeyman to many issues just creates undue noise from the true issue.

This.

Trump is a whole lot of things, most of them bad. He likes anybody whom he thinks likes him. And like every politician he shrinks from alienating people who vote for him. Both Joe B and Trump are supported by "very fine people" who have spouted virulent antisemitic rhetoric. But neither are antisemites themselves. Mike looks at everything through such a prism of abject hatred re Trump that you can't take some of his rants seriously.

[Pakuni]

Oh, and the BOTUS, who tries to talk out of both sides of his mouth, not very successfully however, keeps the billions flowing to Iran and refuses to impose oil sanctions. And, this is who you've hooked your wagon onto...shameful, aina?

Careful, Doc. You're approaching rocket and Heisey territory when it comes to inability to get facts straight.

Nov 15 (Reuters) - The United States will enforce oil sanctions against Iran amid the renewed conflict in the Middle East, President Joe Biden's energy security adviser Amos Hochstein told Bloomberg News on Wednesday.
"We are going to enforce those sanctions" Hochstein told Bloomberg News, in reference to what he said amounted to more than 1 million barrels a day of oil exports from Iran. "Those numbers will come down."


https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-adviser-says-sanctions-will-bring-down-iran-oil-exports-bloomberg-news-2023-11-15/

[MU82]

Wow, some real false equivalency going on now.

Who is Biden's equivalent to Ms. Jewish Space Laser, Tucker, the Proud Boys and Putin? Tlaib? He repudiated her, and she criticized him.

One guy fomented a violent coup attempt against his own country; the other respects democracy and follows the Constitution.

They're practically twins!

"They're both awful" sure sounds like a convenient way to excuse the utterly repugnant words and deeds of the guy who's facing 91 felony charges - and, for the purposes of this thread, the guy who gladly accepts and solicits the support of raging anti-Semites. Not to mention the guy who mimicked Hitler's use of "vermin."

[rocket surgeon]

Careful, Doc. You're approaching rocket and Heisey territory when it comes to inability to get facts straight.

Nov 15 (Reuters) - The United States will enforce oil sanctions against Iran amid the renewed conflict in the Middle East, President Joe Biden's energy security adviser Amos Hochstein told Bloomberg News on Wednesday.
"We are going to enforce those sanctions" Hochstein told Bloomberg News, in reference to what he said amounted to more than 1 million barrels a day of oil exports from Iran. "Those numbers will come down."


https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-adviser-says-sanctions-will-bring-down-iran-oil-exports-bloomberg-news-2023-11-15/

  and there you have it-reuters have anything about hamas and israel celebrating thanksgiving together too?