Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[Heisenberg]

Israeli leaders today said they would target any vehicle in Gaza, because both civilians and Hamas can use cars (that is by definition indiscriminate). This while they dropped leaflets telling the people to leave, presumably in cars.

While they do prioritize military targets, they have made it abundantly clear in both language and actions that they view all Palestinians as complicit if they remain in Northern Gaza.

420 children are dying every day in bombings.

63 UN aid workers are dead. Including 10 in the past 72 hours due to the bombings.

Highlighted part above ... yes, they gave them 20 days to get out of harm's way. How much warning did Hamas give the Israeli population on or before October 7?

The civilian population of Gaza is bearing the brunt of having a terrorist organization as their government.

What changed after October 7 is now that the Israelis gave ample warning, they are not going to let human shields stop them. Nor should they.

Nothing is stopping the Gazan population from rising up against Hamas. They can kill them, return the hostages, and apologize. And, I'm sorry, if they do not want to (or can), Gaza City should brush up on the history of Dresden.

[Heisenberg]

No idea what the point of your post is, or what you are even asking. But of course there is cause for concern, which is why the entire Cornell community has been denouncing these statements. It is why they have police protecting all Jewish sites on campus, and why they have called in the FBI to get to the bottom of this.

It needs to be rooted out. It is clearly despicable.

OK, good ... I interpreted your original response as dismissive.

[The Sultan]

Hamas gives Russia Today a tour of their tunnel system.

https://x.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1719307233014485239?s=20

[jesmu84]

What's your evidence they are indiscriminate bombing, as opposed to targeted bombing of military targets?

Who put the innocent civilians on those targets? See again what the leader of Hamas said.

Then look at the nearly 10,000 rockets Hamas and PIJ have fired since October 7? What is their target? Is it indiscriminate?

What's the evidence for them being military targets? Schools, religious centers, medical facilities, residential buildings

Hamas is a terrorist organization. I wouldn't expect them to respect anything - including civilian life. Since you want to compare Hamas to the Israel government, is it your position that the Israel government operates like a terrorist organization?

If a gunman holds a school, with kids inside, hostage/at gunpoint, is it a good plan to bomb the school to kill the gunman?

If Hamas is the target, go after the leaders, especially if outside of Gaza

[JWags85]

If Hamas is the target, go after the leaders, especially if outside of Gaza

So attack another sovereign nation (Qatar) that isn't technically involved in the war right now?  That would heavily escalate things in the region even more so.

Unless you're proposing special forces infiltrate Qatar and introduce them to darkness

[The Sultan]

Unless you're proposing special forces infiltrate Qatar and introduce them to darkness

My guess is that this is already being discussed.

[Pakuni]

If Hamas is the target, go after the leaders, especially if outside of Gaza

I suspect the U.S. would be very much opposed by any Israeli military incursion into one of its Middle Eastern allies.

[Skatastrophy]

I suspect the U.S. would be very much opposed by any Israeli military incursion into one of its Middle Eastern allies.

Yeah, but that's different from Mossad taking action.

You have to kill terrorist leaders wherever they are. Even if they're being harbored by a "friendly" country.

[The Sultan]

Yeah, but that's different from Mossad taking action.

You have to kill terrorist leaders wherever they are. Even if they're being harbored by a "friendly" country.

And give the US plausible deniability.

[JWags85]

Hamas gives Russia Today a tour of their tunnel system.

https://x.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1719307233014485239?s=20

No doubt built with a portion of the funds sent for humanitarian aid to Gaza, how delightful.

[jesmu84]

So attack another sovereign nation (Qatar) that isn't technically involved in the war right now?  That would heavily escalate things in the region even more so.

Unless you're proposing special forces infiltrate Qatar and introduce them to darkness

You've never seen jack Ryan?

[Skatastrophy]

And give the US plausible deniability.

I watched NCIS. I'm not sure even Israel knows what Mossad is up to.

[Heisenberg]

What's the evidence for them being military targets? Schools, religious centers, medical facilities, residential buildings

Hamas is a terrorist organization. I wouldn't expect them to respect anything - including civilian life. Since you want to compare Hamas to the Israel government, is it your position that the Israel government operates like a terrorist organization?

If a gunman holds a school, with kids inside, hostage/at gunpoint, is it a good plan to bomb the school to kill the gunman?

If Hamas is the target, go after the leaders, especially if outside of Gaza

Your analogy is incorrect.

If a German soldier fires on Allied troops from a classroom full of children, do you target that threat? ANwer, yes.

Allied bombing killed 2 million civilians in WW2.  Those were justified.

[Pakuni]

I watched NCIS. I'm not sure even Israel knows what Mossad is up to.

The Mossad clearly doesn't know what Hamas is up to.
I know the Mossad had got a reputation and all, but if infiltrating Qatar and assassinating Hamas' leadership without setting off an international incident was highly practicable, it likely would have happened by now. Good luck to them if they try, but if they get caught or have to shoot their way out of the country, Israel might have bigger problems than Gaza.

[Skatastrophy]

The Mossad clearly doesn't know what Hamas is up to.
I know the Mossad had got a reputation and all, but if infiltrating Qatar and assassinating Hamas' leadership without setting off an international incident was highly practicable, it likely would have happened by now. Good luck to them if they try, but if they get caught or have to shoot their way out of the country, Israel might have bigger problems than Gaza.

Russia had Zelimkhan Yandarbiev assassinated in Qatar a few years back and it was no big deal.

[Pakuni]

Russia had Zelimkhan Yandarbiev assassinated in Qatar a few years back and it was no big deal.

2004 ... a few years back?
And it was actually a really big deal. 
And Israel isn't Russia.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

Does bombing a refugee camp count as indiscriminate? Or still not yet

[Heisenberg]

Hamas Official Mousa Abu Marzouk, in an interview on Friday:

https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-official-mousa-abu-marzouk-tunnels-gaza-protect-fighters-%20not-civilians

Mousa Abu Marzouk, a member of the Hamas Political Bureau said in an October 27, 2023 interview that aired on Russia Today TV that the tunnels in Gaza were built to protect Hams fighters from airstrikes, not civilians. He added that Hamas fights Israel from within the tunnels. Abu Marzouq added that since 75% of the residents in the Gaza Strip are refugees, it is the responsibility of the United Nations to protect them. He added that according to the Geneva Conventions, it is the responsibility of the "occupation" to provide civilians in Gaza "will all the services," as long as they are under occupation.

---

Hamas is the government of Gaza. It is their job to protect their citizens. They just told you they protect terrorists, not civilians. And when Israel kills (martyrs) a human shield, probably held against their will, it is a violation of the Geneva Convention.

That is rich because Hamas violates Articles 28 and 290 of the Geneva Convention.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/article-28
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/article-29

----

Many times, I posted about the conceit of Western progressives, that when faced with something outside their worldview, because their worldview is the only one that is right/correct, it "breaks their brain." Would you like an example from a few hours ago?

A poster incapable of accepting reality because it violates his worldview.

What's the evidence for them being military targets? Schools, religious centers, medical facilities, residential buildings

It is not about proof. It is not about not being able to accept a reality that differs from your worldview. No amount of proof will satisfy this poster because he cannot accept his worldview is wrong.

----

Want more proof of the conceit of Western Progressives that "everyone thinks like me."  He cannot accept a different worldview, so it must be wrong, and everyone thinks and will react like him ... if only given a chance.

This is the most naive thing I read about this conflict ... and it is from the senior NY Times foreign correspondent!

THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
The Israeli Officials I Speak With Tell Me They Know Two Things for Sure
Oct. 29, 2023
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/29/opinion/israel-hamas-ceasefire.html

A pause could also allow the people of Gaza to take stock of what Hamas's attack on Israel — and Israel's totally predictable response — has done to their lives, families, homes and businesses. What exactly did Hamas think it would accomplish with this war for the people of Gaza, thousands of whom were traveling to work in Israel every day or exporting agricultural products and other goods across the Gaza-Israel border just a few weeks ago? Hamas has gotten way too much understanding and not enough hard questions.

I want to see Hamas's leaders come out from their tunnels under hospitals and look their people, and the world's media, in the eye and tell everyone why they thought it was such a great idea to mutilate and kidnap Israeli children and grandmothers and trigger this terrible blowback on the children and grandmothers of their Gaza neighbors — not to mention their own.

[Skatastrophy]

2004 ... a few years back?
And it was actually a really big deal. 
And Israel isn't Russia.

Eh, 2001 was the beginning of the era of fighting terrorism so it's all within the same round of wars against Al Quaeda & the Islamic State. Russia had a terrorist killed in Qatar. A couple of Russians were put on trial, sentenced to life, and then extradited to Russia where they were immediately freed. Not the biggest deal since there were zero repercussions. Probably a much bigger deal because it was done with a car bomb instead of something they could easily cover up. Splashy so to speak.

[Heisenberg]

Does bombing a refugee camp count as indiscriminate? Or still not yet

Did you learn nothing from the hospital bombing? Israel has not commented. The US has not commented.

I did not trust nor believe anything from the Gaza Health Ministry. It would be best if you did the same.

I'm waiting for collaboration from a credible source. And yes, the IDF is more credible than the Gaza health ministry. The IDF got the hospital bombing correct.

[The Sultan]

A poster incapable of accepting reality because it violates his worldview.

I've stopped reading your stuff the last couple of days because it is really long and continues to say the same thing.

But you claiming that others are "incapable of accepting reality" has got to be one of the most ironic statements typed on Scoop.

[Pakuni]

Eh, 2001 was the beginning of the era of fighting terrorism so it's all within the same round of wars against Al Quaeda & the Islamic State. Russia had a terrorist killed in Qatar. A couple of Russians were put on trial, sentenced to life, and then extradited to Russia where they were immediately freed. Not the biggest deal since there were zero repercussions. Probably a much bigger deal because it was done with a car bomb instead of something they could easily cover up. Splashy so to speak.

Again, Israel isn't Russia. Because:
- Qatar almost certainly would view an Israeli incursion into their country as far more offensive
- Qatar doesn't view Hamas as it does a Chechen separatist group
- Let's face it, Qatar wasn't ever going to round up its allies and join a fight with Russia. With Israel ... maybe not, but certainly not as unthinkable. And it certainly would kill any immediate hopes of expanding Israel's diplomatic ties with the Arab world.

And no, 2004 was not a few years ago. Quality spin, though.

The point is, Israel attempting to assassinate Hamas leaders in Qatar is fraught with peril. You're free to disagree.

[lawdog77]

Again, Israel isn't Russia. Because:
- Qatar almost certainly would view an Israeli incursion into their country as far more offensive
- Qatar doesn't view Hamas as it does a Chechen separatist group
- Let's face it, Qatar wasn't ever going to round up its allies and join a fight with Russia. With Israel ... maybe not, but certainly not as unthinkable. And it certainly would kill any immediate hopes of expanding Israel's diplomatic ties with the Arab world.

And no, 2004 was not a few years ago. Quality spin, though.

The point is, Israel attempting to assassinate Hamas leaders in Qatar is fraught with peril. You're free to disagree.

Agree. there's a reason these leaders are "hiding" in Qatar. It's almost as if they are thumbing their nose at Israel.

[Skatastrophy]

Again, Israel isn't Russia. Because:
- Qatar almost certainly would view an Israeli incursion into their country as far more offensive
- Qatar doesn't view Hamas as it does a Chechen separatist group
- Let's face it, Qatar wasn't ever going to round up its allies and join a fight with Russia. With Israel ... maybe not, but certainly not as unthinkable. And it certainly would kill any immediate hopes of expanding Israel's diplomatic ties with the Arab world.

And no, 2004 was not a few years ago. Quality spin, though.

The point is, Israel attempting to assassinate Hamas leaders in Qatar is fraught with peril. You're free to disagree.

There's no spin, I'm just giving you an example based on history. BTW, that "Chechen separatist group leader" was a member of Al Qaeda, and based on history Qatar has regularly joined NATO to fight terrorists and are actively engaged as a part of a coalition in a war against Islamists in Syria. Qatar is no Switzerland, they take sides with their military.

Qatar isn't a normal Arab nation, they act more like Singapore in that they're capitalists first and religious second. They want clout and they want to be viewed as peacemakers (and dealmakers) in the region. They won't bite the hand that feeds them (US and NATO allies). Like I mentioned earlier, Qatar is already fighting in Syria against Islamists, the allies of Hamas.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

Did you learn nothing from the hospital bombing? Israel has not commented. The US has not commented.

I did not trust nor believe anything from the Gaza Health Ministry. It would be best if you did the same.

I'm waiting for collaboration from a credible source. And yes, the IDF is more credible than the Gaza health ministry. The IDF got the hospital bombing correct.

You clearly put in absolutely zero effort into those claims of no comment. Literally googling "IDF" shows a large spectrum of articles reporting that they confirmed the strike on the refugee camp. But here's some help since you seem to need it for anything not narrowly in the crosshairs of confirming your delusions.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/live-updates/israel-gaza-egypt-russia-airport/?id=104468652

You really are not a serious person