Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[Pakuni]

If you live in a brick house with thick windows and a gang of kids is throwing rocks at it (think Iron Dome repelling rockets), do you shrug and say they cannot hurt us? So, you ignore it.

You've gone from "wiped off the Earth" to an analogy involving children throwing rocks at a brick wall.
Tell me how this isn't shifting goalposts.

[Heisenberg]

You've gone from "wiped off the Earth" to an analogy involving children throwing rocks at a brick wall.
Tell me how this isn't shifting goalposts.

The kids are trying to wipe you off the face of the earth. And they have terrorized you, broke your nose, and beat up your family.

Given this analogy, what would you do?  The answer is you would be even more strident than Israel. You could never like this, but you demand Israel does.

[Pakuni]

The kids are trying to wipe you off the face of the earth. And they have terrorized you, broke your nose, and beat up your family.

They're going to wipe me off the face of the earth by throwing rocks against a brick wall?
How does this make sense to you????????

Also, in this analogy, which Arab nation(s) are the kids? Like, is Kuwait throwing rocks at Israel? Did Saudi Arabian troops break into Israel? Who broke Israel's nose?

Given this analogy, what would you do?  The answer is you would be even more strident than Israel. You could never like this, but you demand Israel does.

What exactly have I demanded of Israel?

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

What exactly have I demanded of Israel?

For them to placate regimes

[Heisenberg]

Whoever helped them come up with these two demands is savvy. They understand that universities really can do nothing about students and employees choosing to engage in unwanted/embarrassing/hateful/etc protected speech, so they offer two steps that are (theoretically) within the university's power to enact...though one may be impossible to enforce.

Private institutions don't have to honor first amendment rights. It's why Rocky can call a poster a douche canoe and then ban said poster for a week. Rocky's site. Rocky's rules. Private universities fall in this category as well, however, the vast majority of private universities have self-imposed first amendment rights on themselves for decades. In most cases, this takes the form of a university policy, guaranteeing that the university will honor the first amendment rights of their students and employees. If a university were to violate this policy, it becomes a matter of contract law rather than civil rights law. As in, the student agrees to pay tuition to the university in exchange for the university providing the student an education and both parties agree to various terms and conditions of that arrangement. A private university violating a student or employee's free speech would then be considered a violation of that contract.

The reason this demand is savvy is because most likely (depending on the policy), the university has no obligation to honor the free speech of non students and non employees because they do not have a contract with these individuals. That  most likely gives private universities the right to ban or remove non-students/employees from their grounds for engaging in speech that the university doesn't approve of.

The problem I would see comes in the enforcement of said policy. How do you ensure that non-students/employees don't come to a university protest? You can't prove a negative, so they only methods I can think of involve requiring attendees to present some sort of identification proving that they are student/employee. Requiring protesters to identify themselves to a university official, or most likely a campus cop, in order to participate in a protest would likely be ruled as a violation of those students'/employees' contractually guaranteed first amendment rights and the university would rightly get smacked for it.

So these donors are demanding a policy that is likely within the university's right to enact but outside of their ability to enforce.

As for the required class on critical thinking/fact finding. Assuming that's what they are actually requesting, I'm all for it. Marquette requires (or at least the did when I attended) all students to take a logic course and I personally believe that was the most valuable course I took at Marquette. I would honestly be surprised if Harvard didn't already have something like that. My suspicion is that ?critical thinking/fact finding" is code for something else, what, I'm not sure. Though I find the idea of conservative donors demanding the additional of a mandatory liberal arts course to be amusing. Usually that side of the donor spectrum is doing everything in their power to get rid of required liberal arts courses.

Now you can add Columbia squarely into the mix.

—-

Cooperman has given Columbia $50 million. He's done

Billionaire Leon Cooperman Cutting Off Donations To Columbia Over Student Protests Of Israel-Hamas War

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2023/10/26/billionaire-leon-cooperman-cutting-off-donations-to-columbia-over-student-protests-of-israel-hamas-war/

Cooperman criticized the pro-Palestinian protests held by Columbia students while speaking on Fox Business's The Claman Countdown on Wednesday, saying he thinks college students "have sh** for brains."

—————

Last year's "giving day" raised $30 million.

https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2023/10/23/columbia-postpones-annual-giving-day-citing-not-the-appropriate-time/

———

Is Cooperman and "giving day" done for good?

No

But to restart both is probably going to mean wholesale university policy changes, resignations and/or firings, and possibly explusions.

Who is going to make this happen? The board of trustees. If you don't resign from the Columbia board, and do not demand all of the above, the trustee will suffer great reputational damage.

No trustee will allow that. University faculty and administrators are expendable if they stand in the way of trustee's reputations.

—-

This is the long term legacy on higher education from the last three weeks.

[The Sultan]

No college or university is going to fire a tenured faculty member or expel a student for merely protesting.

Do you really think that's a good idea?

[Heisenberg]

No college or university is going to fire a tenured faculty member or expel a student for merely protesting.

Do you really think that's a good idea?

You may be correct, and they will keep the "s**t for brains" (Cooperman's term above) faculty and students.

And it has already cost the tens of millions of dollars, with a lot more losses coming.

[Uncle Rico]

You may be correct, and they will keep the "s**t for brains" (Cooperman's term above) faculty and students.

And it has already cost the tens of millions of dollars, with a lot more losses coming.

How will they survive

[Heisenberg]

How will they survive

Like Disney

[tower912]

Putin had representatives from Hamas and  Iran come to Moscow.

[Uncle Rico]

Like Disney

Yup

[4everwarriors]

Its not just the college students who have chit for brains. We got lotsa stinky heads right here on Scoop, aina?

[Uncle Rico]

Its not just the college students who have chit for brains. We got lotsa stinky heads right here on Scoop, aina?

You had to edit that, huh?  That's awesome.

[The Sultan]

You may be correct, and they will keep the "s**t for brains" (Cooperman's term above) faculty and students.

And it has already cost the tens of millions of dollars, with a lot more losses coming.

Well, donors don't run universities. They can take their giving elsewhere because I am sure that their survival isn't dependent on Cooperman.

[Heisenberg]

Well, donors don't run universities. They can take their giving elsewhere because I am sure that their survival isn't dependent on Cooperman.

Donors are the Board of Trustees. They have the ability to fire staff (including University Presidents and Basketball Coaches).

When Trustees come under fire like this, changes will be made.

Your smart enough to know this.

But instead of arguing for the sake of arguing ....

Imagine your University is losing many millions in donations, Trustees that have not resigned are "really giving it" to University Presidents (google Ken Griffin and Ronald Lauder) and the Donors/Trustees are getting an earful from the friends and professional relationships (google Marc Rowan) ..., What do you think comes of this?

Nothing? "Everything will be fine?"

[The Sultan]

Donors are the Board of Trustees. They have the ability to fire staff (including University Presidents and Basketball Coaches).

When Trustees come under fire like this, changes will be made.

Your smart enough to know this.

But instead of arguing for the sake of arguing ....

Imagine your University is losing many millions in donations, Trustees that have not resigned are "really giving it" to University Presidents (google Ken Griffin and Ronald Lauder) and the Donors/Trustees are getting an earful from the friends and professional relationships (google Marc Rowan) ..., What do you think comes of this?

Nothing? "Everything will be fine?"

Again, donors aren't going to get faculty fired and students expelled. They may put pressure on Trustees and those Trustees could fire the President...but that would be a failure of governance. Trustees should support the rights of their tenured faculty and students.

And anyway, private gifts and grants make up less than 10% of Columbia's revenue. And its not like they are going to lose all of it.

Colleges and universities are a lot less responsive to donors who demand operational decisions than you think they are.

[Heisenberg]

Cambridge University definition on Intifada
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/intifada

a violent act of oppostion by the Palestinian people to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip:

—

Students at @Princeton chant "long live the intifada." This is not simply pro-Palestinian activism. This is a call for violence against Jews. pic.twitter.com/nFZLc9XbIx
— Zach Kessel (@zach_kessel) October 25, 2023

——

What should Princeton do here?  Nothing and watch more donors leave?

Or, have them arrested for incitement of violence?

Before you answer no, if anti-abortion students protested in front of a University clinic that provides "health services for Women" chanting "protect life at all costs" .... Is this also something that does not need to be addressed?

[Heisenberg]

Colleges and universities are a lot less responsive to donors who demand operational decisions than you think they are.

True

But this level of donor and Trustee protest is next level

[The Sultan]

Cambridge University definition on Intifada
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/intifada

a violent act of oppostion by the Palestinian people to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip:

—

Students at @Princeton chant "long live the intifada." This is not simply pro-Palestinian activism. This is a call for violence against Jews. pic.twitter.com/nFZLc9XbIx
— Zach Kessel (@zach_kessel) October 25, 2023

——

What should Princeton do here?  Nothing and watch more donors leave?

Or, have them arrested for incitement of violence?

Before you answer no, if anti-abortion students protested in front of a University clinic that provides "health services for Women" chanting "protect life at all costs" .... Is this also something that does not need to be addressed?

No. It would not need to be addressed.

[MuggsyB]

This last few weeks have been eye opening and not in a good way about what is being taught at our esteemed colleges and universities.  Imagine if another minority group was essentially trapped and terrified at the school library?  Inexcusable and utterly despicable.  And the leadership at Cooper U and other schools continue to do diddly squat. 

[Heisenberg]

No. It would not need to be addressed.

Both examples?

[The Sultan]

Both examples?

Yep. As long as they are merely verbally protesting, and assuming the private universities otherwise allow it, both would not not need to be addressed.

[4everwarriors]

You had to edit that, huh?  That's awesome.

Yeah, I took the usual suspect screen names out, hey?

[4everwarriors]

Well, donors don't run universities. They can take their giving elsewhere because I am sure that their survival isn't dependent on Cooperman.

In all your years in academia, how many $50 million donors have you come across, hey?

[Uncle Rico]

Yeah, I took the usual suspect screen names out, hey?

Incredible