Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[lawdog77]

So, back to your post  and my question.
How are Erdogan's remarks leading to escalation, especially in light of steps his government has taken to discourage escalation?
If Erodgan's goal is the elimination is Israel, why did he meet with Yapid and host Herzog last year, meet with Netanyahu earlier this year, and invite Netanyahu to Turkey this summer (a visit the latter backed out of)? Are these the actions of someone trying to eliminate Israel?
Seems you're far more concerned with what Erdogan says than what he does.

Look, Erdogan is a bad guy. But he's not a slightly more westernized version of Iran's mullahs. He's not looking to escalate the situation nor does he wants some widespread conflict aimed at ending Israel.

So you think he is saying all of these things to stay in power? I guess we'll agree to disagree on that

[Pakuni]

So you think he is saying all of these things to stay in power? I guess we'll agree to disagree on that

Yeah, that's not at all what I wrote. I expect those kind of straw men out of Heisey Douchey, not you.

So, you think Erdogan wants to team with Hamas, Iran and Hezbollah for a massive regional war to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth? I guess we'll agree to disagree on that.

I guess I shouldn't expect answers to my questions.

[lawdog77]

Yeah, that's not at all what I wrote. I expect those kind of straw men out of Heisey Douchey, not you.

So, you think Erdogan wants to team with Hamas, Iran and Hezbollah for a massive regional war to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth? I guess we'll agree to disagree on that.

I guess I shouldn't expect answers to my questions.

Did you forget about your first response?

All politics is local.

So that is exactly what you wrote.

[Pakuni]

Did you forget about your first response?

So that is exactly what you wrote.

Yes, and I've already explained why that doesn't mean what you assumed it means. I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink.
If you want to answer my questions, give it a go. Otherwise, I'll assume you have no interest in a discussion and are simply spoiling for a fight.

[Heisenberg]

Which surrounding Arab nations are a threat to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth, aina?

Only four Arab countries even recognize Israel's right to exist: the UAE, Sudan, Morocco, and (to a lesser extent) Bahrain.

The UAE and Bahrain are the smallest Arab countries, Sudan is a giant mess, and Morocco is the most "Western of the Arab countries. They represent a tiny percentage of the Arab world's population.

So, a more straightforward way to say this is "all of them."

[lawdog77]

Yes, and I've already explained why that doesn't mean what you assumed it means. I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink.
If you want to answer my questions, give it a go. Otherwise, I'll assume you have no interest in a discussion and are simply spoiling for a fight.

What I see is that you used that quote, and then realized you were wrong (or at least using  the quote wrong). I know what that quote means.

So, to answer your question, I think he had to pick a side, and his conservative Muslim views won out.

"Whoever is on the side of Israel, let everyone know that we are against them," Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Saturday, according to Iran's Press TV.

Erdogan made the comments as he addressed senior provincial officials from the ruling AKP party in Ankara.

[Heisenberg]

Two stories from Today's WSJ.

The bottom line is that Americans are widely expected to fight (unfortunately, the implication is die) during this war.  Because Iran will be a focus and Israel is waiting to attack, allowing the US time to prepare.

If American combat troops are part of this fight ... what side are you on?

Hint: it is a really really easy question.

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Hamas Fighters Trained in Iran Before Oct. 7 Attacks
Roughly 500 Palestinian militants got specialized combat instruction at Iranian facilities as recently as September
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-fighters-trained-in-iran-before-oct-7-attacks-e2a8dbb9

In the weeks leading up to Hamas's Oct. 7 attack on Israel, hundreds of the Palestinian Islamist militant group's fighters received specialized combat training in Iran, according to people familiar with intelligence related to the assault.

Roughly 500 militants from Hamas and an allied group, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, participated in the exercises in September, which were led by officers of the Quds Force, the foreign-operations arm of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, the people said.

Senior Palestinian officials and Iranian Brig. Gen. Esmail Qaani, the head of Quds Force, also attended, they said.

----

Israel-Hamas War Updates: Israel Agrees to Delay Gaza Invasion for U.S. Military to Prepare Defenses
Iran's role in the conflict was amplified as Israeli forces struck targets in Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, and Syria.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-palestinians-news

Israel agreed to a U.S. request to get its air defenses in place to protect U.S. troops in the region ahead of an expected ground invasion into Gaza, according to U.S. officials and people familiar with Israel's planning.


Related ... they are already trying to kill Americans.

Rockets Fired at U.S. Base in Syria
By Nancy A. Youssef

A U.S. base in northeastern Syria came under attack on Wednesday, a U.S. defense official said.

One rocket landed on the base in Kharab al-Jir, Syria, and two struck nearby, the defense official said. There were no immediate signs of injuries and no damage, the official said.

Since Oct. 17, there have been at least 13 other similar attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria and on a U.S. destroyer operating in the Red Sea.

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Why is there no outrage that the Palestinians will not cease fire?  Why is only Israel called on for a cease-fire?

[Pakuni]

Only four Arab countries even recognize Israel's right to exist: the UAE, Sudan, Morocco, and (to a lesser extent) Bahrain.

The UAE and Bahrain are the smallest Arab countries, Sudan is a giant mess, and Morocco is the most "Western of the Arab countries. They represent a tiny percentage of the Arab world's population.

So, a more straightforward way to say this is "all of them."

Why did you leave out Egypt or Jordan? Or Turkey, which is close enough. Probably just an oversight.

And if lack of official recognition equals "wants wiped off the face of the Earth," then Taiwan better look out. We're coming for them.

[Pakuni]

So, to answer your question, I think he had to pick a side, and his conservative Muslim views won out.

That wasn't my question.
Thanks for trying, though.

[Heisenberg]

Why did you leave out Egypt, Jordan and Turkey? Probably just an oversight.

And if lack of official recognition equals "wants wiped off the face of the Earth," then Taiwan better look out. We're coming for them.

Jordan (18 hours ago) - Jordan's Queen Rania says 'no evidence' of Hamas atrocities
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/skujhilma

Turkey (earlier today) Turkey's Erdogan hails Hamas as liberators, leaving détente with Israel in shreds
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2023/10/turkeys-erdogan-hails-hamas-liberators-leaving-detente-israel-shreds

Egypt hates HATES the Palestinians in Gaza. If they all fell into the sea, no one in Cairo would shed a tear. So their support is one of convenience.

The four I noted both recognize Israel and put out statements of condemnation over the Hamas attacks. Out fo 55 Arab and Muslim countries, that's it.

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Forget this back-and-forth ...

Are you honestly trying to argue that no Arab country has argued for the end of Israel?

[lawdog77]

That wasn't my question.
Thanks for trying, though.

you're welcome. I think he would have no problem destroying Israel. He has a track record of bad things-see Syria. Still wating for you to acknowledge that you butchered the use of that quote. by that quote you are saying he is saying these things to appease his local constituents. That is not true.

[Pakuni]

Jordan (18 hours ago) - Jordan's Queen Rania says 'no evidence' of Hamas atrocities
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/skujhilma

Turkey (earlier today) Turkey's Erdogan hails Hamas as liberators, leaving détente with Israel in shreds
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2023/10/turkeys-erdogan-hails-hamas-liberators-leaving-detente-israel-shreds

Egypt hates HATES the Palestinians in Gaza. If they all fell into the sea, no one in Cairo would shed a tear. So their support is one of convenience.

The four I noted both recognize Israel and put out statements of condemnation over the Hamas attacks. Out fo 55 Arab and Muslim countries, that's it.

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Forget this back-and-forth ...

Are you honestly trying to argue that no Arab country has argued for the end of Israel?

A+ for goalpost shifting.
And no.

[Heisenberg]

A+ for goalpost shifting.
And no.

No goalpost shifting ... Jordan and Turkey's position changed earlier today. (Maybe because everyone is getting ready for what is coming next and staking their positions out ... because they believe this is the fight for existence and not a glorified police action to get a handful of criminals.)

And if your answer is no, that you believe Arab countries have called for the end of Israel, what was this about?

How were we supposed to read this?

Which surrounding Arab nations are a threat to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth, aina?

[The Sultan]

Jordan (18 hours ago) - Jordan's Queen Rania says 'no evidence' of Hamas atrocities
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/skujhilma

Turkey (earlier today) Turkey's Erdogan hails Hamas as liberators, leaving détente with Israel in shreds
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2023/10/turkeys-erdogan-hails-hamas-liberators-leaving-detente-israel-shreds

Egypt hates HATES the Palestinians in Gaza. If they all fell into the sea, no one in Cairo would shed a tear. So their support is one of convenience.

The four I noted both recognize Israel and put out statements of condemnation over the Hamas attacks. Out fo 55 Arab and Muslim countries, that's it.

----

Forget this back-and-forth ...

Are you honestly trying to argue that no Arab country has argued for the end of Israel?

There's the inevitable goalpost shift and strawman argument when his argument goes south....

Statements by various Arab leaders do not mean they are ready to go to war with Israel. That is a ridiculous leap in logic.

And he never claimed that "no Arab country argued for the end of Israel." That's a big strawman even for you.

[Hards Alumni]

No goalpost shifting ... Jordan and Turkey's position changed earlier today. (Maybe because everyone is getting ready for what is coming next and staking their positions out ... because they believe this is the fight for existence and not a glorified police action to get a handful of criminals.)

And if your answer is no, that you believe Arab countries have called for the end of Israel, what was this about?

How were we supposed to read this?

Not a serious person.

[Pakuni]

you're welcome. I think he would have no problem destroying Israel. He has a track record of bad things-see Syria. Still wating for you to acknowledge that you butchered the use of that quote. by that quote you are saying he is saying these things to appease his local constituents. That is not true.

I didn't butcher the quote. You have an incorrect understanding of it if you believe it's about "appeasing" voters.
And again, if he hates Israel and wants to destroy them, why has his government taken significant strides to improve diplomatic relations over the past 18 months - including inviting Netanyahu to Ankara? Why has trade between the nations significantly grown under him?

[Pakuni]

No goalpost shifting ... Jordan and Turkey's position changed earlier today. (Maybe because everyone is getting ready for what is coming next and staking their positions out ... because they believe this is the fight for existence and not a glorified police action to get a handful of criminals.)

And if your answer is no, that you believe Arab countries have called for the end of Israel, what was this about?

How were we supposed to read this?

Reading isn't that hard. I asked which Arab nations are a threat to wipe Israel off the Earth. Give it a try. But remember, the question is not:
Which Arab nations don't recognize Israel?
Which Arab nations are hostile toward Israel?
Which Arab nations haven't condemned Hamas?
Which Arab nations are taking Palestinian refugees?

[Heisenberg]

Reading isn't that hard. I asked which Arab nations are a threat to wipe Israel off the Earth. Give it a try. But remember, the question is not:
Which Arab nations don't recognize Israel?
Which Arab nations are hostile toward Israel?
Which Arab nations haven't condemned Hamas?
Which Arab nations are taking Palestinian refugees?

And I said

Which surrounding Arab nations are a threat to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth, aina?

So, a more straightforward way to say this is "all of them."
[/quote]

Look forward to your next dissemble.

[lawdog77]

I didn't butcher the quote. You have an incorrect understanding of it if you believe it's about "appeasing" voters.
And again, if he hates Israel and wants to destroy them, why has his government taken significant strides to improve diplomatic relations over the past 18 months - including inviting Netanyahu to Ankara? Why has trade between the nations significantly grown under him?

Unless you are the ghost of Tip O'Neill I will disagree. You need the "grass roots" to get elected, and once elected you need to kep those local issues hot to keep your seat. With your quote, Sultans , and a few others, you are minimizing the impact of what he said. Have you seen any of his quotes about Israel in the past 20 years? He hates Israel, and now he has the opportunity to act.

[MuggsyB]

Pakuni, stop placating these regimes. 

[Skatastrophy]

Pakuni, stop placating these regimes. 

lol

[Pakuni]

And I said
So, a more straightforward way to say this is "all of them."

Got it.
In 1948, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria all teamed up to attack Israel, got their tails kicked and lost land in the process.
In 1967,  Egypt, Jordan and Syria teamed up again, lost in six days, and Israel gained more land.
In 1973, Egypt and Syria tried again, this time with minor help from a half dozen fellow Arab nations, and they lost in a few weeks. And, oh yeah, they ceded more territory to Israel.

Despite this track record of monumental failure, you believe that every single Arab nation - Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen, Tunisia, Oman, etc. - is a legitimate threat to wipe Israel from existence.
Very credible.

[Pakuni]

Pakuni, stop placating these regimes.

Will do.

[Hards Alumni]

Pakuni, stop placating these regimes.

You can just call them governments.

[Heisenberg]

Got it.
In 1948, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria all teamed up to attack Israel, got their tails kicked and lost land in the process.
In 1967,  Egypt, Jordan and Syria teamed up again, lost in six days, and Israel gained more land.
In 1973, Egypt and Syria tried again, this time with minor help from a half dozen fellow Arab nations, and they lost in a few weeks. And, oh yeah, they ceded more territory to Israel.

Despite this track record of monumental failure, you believe that every single Arab nation - Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen, Tunisia, Oman, etc. - is a legitimate threat to wipe Israel from existence.
Very credible.

If you live in a brick house with thick windows and a gang of kids is throwing rocks at it (think Iron Dome repelling rockets), do you shrug and say they cannot hurt us? So, you ignore it.

And occasionally, when you venture outside and get hit in the head and break a nose or cheek (think Iron Dome is not perfect, and some get through and Israelis die), do you continue to shrug and say. They will not destroy my house, so I'll tolerate it?

Then, three gang members break into your house and beat the snot out of your family (October 7). Do you call the police and say, "Here is my security video of the three that beat up my family. Please find and arrest them, and never mind the rest outside throwing rocks at my house.

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This is what you're arguing.