Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[4everwarriors]

I've been told by some pretty smart people that they use body doubles in his speeches

Yeah, body doubles come from Madame Tussauds which is an upgrade from da real life stiff, aina?

[4everwarriors]

I didn't notice that he drooled etc. during his address, I thought he was incapable of communicating?

Has trouble readin' da teleprompter wit hiz beady eyes. Did nearly choke 3 different times on his phlegm doe, hey?

[MU82]

Probably CRT

That made me laugh out loud.

Has trouble readin' da teleprompter wit hiz beady eyes. Did nearly choke 3 different times on his phlegm doe, hey?

Have you ever heard your lord and master read from a teleprompter? In one recent attempt, he couldn't say "Hamas."

https://www.indy100.com/politics/trump/donald-trump-hamas-israel-speech

He slurred his way through "Ishrael" in another. He reads at about a 4th-grade level, so I guess it's no surprise.

He also makes every single speech about himself.

And, as we've already established, he has spent years currying support from antisemites, and giving the very fine people among them cover, aid and comfort.

But yes, Biden has beady eyes.

[tower912]

I would like to thank JWags and TAMU for for their eloquent statements. 

[lawdog77]

I would like to thank JWags and TAMU for for their eloquent statements.

Agreed.

[rocket surgeon]

Can't imagine, 82, I am sending all my love into the universe for your family.

  absolutely agree here 21.  for most of us, this is beyond comprehension.  while we are getting worked up about someone cutting us off in traffic, there are many(too many) trying to survive real terror, finding food, water and shelter.  serious prayers flying out to the innocents who are distressed and to those who are in charge of making the right decisions to clean this mess up.  hang in there 82!  despite our exchanges, peace and godspeed

[MuggsyB]

Muggs, I like and respect your wide range of interest and experiences and travels (even when I poke fun at you), but if thats what you took from that, you really need step back and CHILL.  Maybe take a weekend off from all news and social media related to the conflict.  Cause that is beyond toxic.

I have friends and customers/associates in Israel.  I have nieces and nephews at a Jewish Day School in NJ that would have armed guards at their school gates as a result of this...if they hadn't already for a few years after the anti-semitic attacks in the NY area.  Their uncle and many cousins/relatives of their father in Tel Aviv have been deeply affected in numerous ways including a family that lost their neighbors to October 7th and then also had a son in the IDF who was killed.  And despite all being clearly "pro-Israel" not one of them have embedded themselves in rhetoric as hysterical as you.

As to your question?  Are there plenty of Gazan children around Kindergarten age being "programmed" with hate?  Sure.  But there are tens of thousands more who grow up in normal families and live "normal lives".  Every kid in the South doesn't grow up a virulent racist because there are racists all over their community who cling to the Confederate flag.  Spend a few minutes and its EASY to find videos of IDF soldiers hanging out with Palestinian kids.  Playing soccer, giving high fives, just being kids with IDF around just like an American kid in the burbs would be with local law enforcement they know.  Some people post it as PR fodder to defend the IDF, sure, but I see a different positive, its just a glimpse at humanity and another lesson that hate is taught and not ingrained from birth.

As an "online friend" who wants as close to an ideal outcome for Israel as possible, no jokes or jabs at your 5 step plan or crazy fantasies. Truly, coming from me, please try to reframe your aggression and dramatic need for carnage here.  For your mental health more than anything.  Wish for the absolute complete obliteration of Hamas, 1000%.  But temper anything further cause its gonna eat you alive more than it already has.

I appreciate your thoughts but the USA racist Confederate analogy is a stretch JWags.  The vast majority of Palestinian children are taught to hate through their textbooks and teachers.  That doesn't mean there aren't "normal" families, or that these kids are to blame at a young age, but the antisemitism across the entire Arab and Islamic world is ubiquitous to put it mildly.  See Malaysia's govt. statements as an example. 

[MU82]

Can't imagine, 82, I am sending all my love into the universe for your family.

  absolutely agree here 21.  for most of us, this is beyond comprehension.  while we are getting worked up about someone cutting us off in traffic, there are many(too many) trying to survive real terror, finding food, water and shelter.  serious prayers flying out to the innocents who are distressed and to those who are in charge of making the right decisions to clean this mess up.  hang in there 82!  despite our exchanges, peace and godspeed

Thanks to both of you.

[Hards Alumni]

I appreciate your thoughts but the USA racist Confederate analogy is a stretch JWags.  The vast majority of Palestinian children are taught to hate through their textbooks and teachers.  That doesn't mean there aren't "normal" families, or that these kids are to blame at a young age, but the antisemitism across the entire Arab and Islamic world is ubiquitous to put it mildly.  See Malaysia's govt. statements as an example.

Show your work.  Where did you find out that the vast majority of children are taught to hate.

[MuggsyB]

Show your work.  Where did you find out that the vast majority of children are taught to hate.

I've seen the textbooks...as well as the reactions across the world from this massacre. 

[Hards Alumni]

I've seen the textbooks...as well as the reactions across the world from this massacre.

Sure you did.  No chance you just made that up.   

[MuggsyB]

Sure you did.  No chance you just made that up.   

Uh.....no.  Look at the UNWRA textbooks.  The entire organization there is a freaking joke. 

[Hards Alumni]

Uh.....no.  Look at the UNWRA textbooks.  The entire organization there is a freaking joke.

Be specific.  You said something specific.  Now show me where Palestinian children are taught hatred via their school text books.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Uh.....no.  Look at the UNWRA textbooks.  The entire organization there is a freaking joke.

Muggsy, is part of your five-point plan using nuclear weapons on Iran?

[MU82]

Muggsy, is part of your five-point plan using nuclear weapons on Iran?

Rambo seems to be resisting answering that one.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Rambo seems to be resisting answering that one.

Didn't Rambo go and actually do something, rather than sit at his keyboard and call for killing millions of people while working on his saffron recipes?

[Heisenberg]

Look back to how the Allies handled the end and aftermath of World War II. Rather than punishing the Axis powers, the propped up Japan and Germany, learning from the mistakes of the post-WWI fallout that led Germany right back to war less than 2 decades later. Those countries became industrial, economic, and democratic powers. They became some of our most important allies in the generations to come. Helping our enemies created allies.

But what else did we do? We dropped bombs to send a warning to the Soviet Union. That led to them pursuing the atomic bomb themselves, the Cold War, and our biggest geopolitical enemy for generations. We also bombed Palestinians out of their homes and helped create what turned into an apartheid state in Israel. Rather than the Allies being willing to cede territory of their own for a new Jewish home state, they deliberately created the situation that led to where we are now.

None of this excuses Hamas. What they did was terrible, awful, evil. But if the response is to raze Gaza, to punish 2 million Palestinians for the actions of a minority, we WILL create a bigger problem down the line. Because that is flawed thinking born out by generations of matching violence with violence. Give them the opportunity to thrive, like we did with Germany and Japan, and they will thrive. Give them hate and they will revisit that hate on you.

We did punish the hell out of the Axis powers.  Germany was split into two countries for 40 years. East Germany had a big wall around it (sound familiar) and was effectively an open-air prison (sound familiar). Anyone thinking of leaving was murdered and left to rot on the barbed wire as a warning for others who harbored similar thoughts.

West Germany was run by Allied Generals, most notably George Marshall in Germany and Douglas MacArthur in Japan. Effectively, they were colonized (sound familiar). Germany lived as an anpartied state until 1989 (sound familiar).

And why did the Germans not fight back to these conditions? Why did they just shut up and make BMWs until they were a manufacturing power?

Because one side overwhelmingly won, they demanded and got unconditional surrender. This is how peace is achieved. One side has to win overwhelmingly, and the other side succumbs.


I bring this up as this goes to the "proportional response." What is the appropriate proportional response by Israel?  To answer this, you have to define the problem.

Israel defines the problem as an attack on their very existence, and if they lose this fight, it will be nothing short of a second holocaust. They believe they cannot lose this fight, and "what it takes" to win, they will do.

To this end, Israel points to the "proportional responses" in WW2.  To get Germany to succumb, the Allied powers fire-bombed Dresden between February 13 - 15, 1945. At least 25,000 civilians (some estimates have it much higher) were incinerated in less than 48 hours. The intention and message were clear ... give up.  The same thing happened in Japan in August 1945.  Seventy thousand people were killed in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The purpose was to tell the Japanese they would give up and unconditionally surrender.

A lasting peace is finally achieved when one side so thoroughly wins that the outcome is unconditional surrender.

This is how you get peace in the Middle East or anywhere else with unresolvable conflict.  It is ugly and horrible to look at. But the alternative of not winning and not getting an unconditional surrender is worrying about your continued existence.

[MuggsyB]

Rambo seems to be resisting answering that one.

I'm not resisting anything.  You should be screaming from the rooftops about the myriad of takes and asinine moral equivalency people are intimating here regarding this horrific situation.  There are a lot of people on the wrong side MU82, I'm not one of them.  I want you to ask yourself point-blank what some of the squadlike people and all of us posting would write if there were KKK rallies all over college campuses yelling "Dylan Roof was right"?  Do you think they would simply be insouciant and accept it?  Would you and others state that college President's not doing a fking thing about it is "free speech"?  I'm gonna call b-crape.

[lawdog77]

Be specific.  You said something specific.  Now show me where Palestinian children are taught hatred via their school text books.

Googled
https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-textbooks-still-include-hate-antisemitism-despite-pledge-to-remove-watchdog/

[MuggsyB]

And to answer "would I use a nuclear" weapon on Iran I will just state emphatically thaf I would eliminate their chances getting a nuclear weapon.  Ever.  If that means we would have to nuke ourselves to take out their facilities?  I'm not against it but I don't think it would be necessary. 

[Uncle Rico]

We did punish the hell out of the Axis powers.  Germany was split into two countries for 40 years. East Germany had a big wall around it (sound familiar) and was effectively an open-air prison (sound familiar). Anyone thinking of leaving was murdered and left to rot on the barbed wire as a warning for others who harbored similar thoughts.

West Germany was run by Allied Generals, most notably George Marshall in Germany and Douglas MacArthur in Japan. Effectively, they were colonized (sound familiar). Germany lived as an anpartied state until 1989 (sound familiar).

And why did the Germans not fight back to these conditions? Why did they just shut up and make BMWs until they were a manufacturing power?

Because one side overwhelmingly won, they demanded and got unconditional surrender. This is how peace is achieved. One side has to win overwhelmingly, and the other side succumbs.


I bring this up as this goes to the "proportional response." What is the appropriate proportional response by Israel?  To answer this, you have to define the problem.

Israel defines the problem as an attack on their very existence, and if they lose this fight, it will be nothing short of a second holocaust. They believe they cannot lose this fight, and "what it takes" to win, they will do.

To this end, Israel points to the "proportional responses" in WW2.  To get Germany to succumb, the Allied powers fire-bombed Dresden between February 13 - 15, 1945. At least 25,000 civilians (some estimates have it much higher) were incinerated in less than 48 hours. The intention and message were clear ... give up.  The same thing happened in Japan in August 1945.  Seventy thousand people were killed in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The purpose was to tell the Japanese they would give up and unconditionally surrender.

A lasting peace is finally achieved when one side so thoroughly wins that the outcome is unconditional surrender.

This is how you get peace in the Middle East or anywhere else with unresolvable conflict.  It is ugly and horrible to look at. But the alternative of not winning and not getting an unconditional surrender is worrying about your continued existence.

Germany surrendered because the Fuhrer committed suicide.

Germany wouldn't have been partitioned until 1989 if not for the whole Cold War thingy.

[Uncle Rico]

I'm not resisting anything.  You should be screaming from the rooftops about the myriad of takes and asinine moral equivalency people are intimating here regarding this horrific situation.  There are a lot of people on the wrong side MU82, I'm not one of them.  I want you to ask yourself point-blank what some of the squadlike people and all of us posting would write if there were KKK rallies all over college campuses yelling "Dylan Roof was right"?  Do you think they would simply be insouciant and accept it?  Would you and others state that college President's not doing a fking thing about it is "free speech"?  I'm gonna call b-crape.

You're the hero here

[MuggsyB]

You're the hero here

And you continue to have  no spine or morals.

[forgetful]

I would like to thank JWags and TAMU for for their eloquent statements.

Also, agreed.

[21Jumpstreet]

I'm not resisting anything.  You should be screaming from the rooftops about the myriad of takes and asinine moral equivalency people are intimating here regarding this horrific situation.  There are a lot of people on the wrong side MU82, I'm not one of them.  I want you to ask yourself point-blank what some of the squadlike people and all of us posting would write if there were KKK rallies all over college campuses yelling "Dylan Roof was right"?  Do you think they would simply be insouciant and accept it?  Would you and others state that college President's not doing a fking thing about it is "free speech"?  I'm gonna call b-crape.

Had to look up insouciant, that's a great word, and no one here is being insouciant or accepting anything. Even the people you have proclaimed antisemitic have not been casual or accepting of what was done to Israel.

Yes, I imagine we would have a fruitful debate regarding your other examples. KKK speech is protected and disgusting. I don't think you'd find anyone who says Dylan Roof was right, whatever that even means, he's a murderer and a piece of crap, like Hamas who murdered innocent Israelis/non-Israelis.